Explaining the Rationalist Movement to the Uninitiated

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DyG8tzmj3NnGRE8Gt/explaining-the-rationalist-movement-to-the-uninitiated

Contents

"It’s a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty—a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if you’re doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid—not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you’ve eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked—to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated."Because this kind of modesty is not usually something that comes naturally to people, it is this quality that makes it relatively easy to differentiate between people that are part of the Rationalist Movement, and people with an extreme political opinion that they justify as being "rational". Anyone claiming to "destroy their opponent" in a discussion using "facts, logic and rationality" can reasonably be assumed to be one of the latter, not the former. There is also a particular focus within the Rationalist Movement on cognitive biases. Whilst this is not a fundamental principle, in the way that evidence and logical thought are, it is a cornerstone of the culture. Even if people choose to ignore their biases, which Rationalists may decide to do from time to time for various reasons, there is a view that it is useful to know what they are, and that people have them (even though knowing about them might make them worse). The ability to avoid these biases when appropriate can be helpful in pursuing logical thought, and in achieving goals more effectively. This is not to say that the Rationalist Movement is entirely devoid of emotion however—it is a false dichotomy to view emotions as irrelevant to Rationality. A better dichotomy would be to view thought processes as analytic or empathetic—both are valuable and have real world consequences. While Rationalists are often stereotyped as being far more analytic than empathetic, it is more that there is a balance to be found between both. Often in everyday life, emotion can overwhelm other considerations, so people trying to find a balance between analysis and empathy can be considered heartless, which is unfortunate. Furthermore, no description of Rationality would be complete without mentioning Bayes. Again, not a fundamental principle, but Bayesian probability theory is a very important idea for the Rationalist Movement. As a culture with a great focus on the importance of the Scientific Method, there is a great frustration with abuses of statistics often committed in both the scientific community and the world at large. Bayesian probability theory is seen by many in the Rationalist Movement as a better, simpler, more reliable and less open to abuse method of performing statistical analysis. III. Bayesian PragmatismBased on this reasoning, in future my go-to definition of Rationality will be: "The philosophy of Pragmatism (the practical application of the Scientific Method, experiment and evidence, as well as logical thought, and an awareness of any limitations and uncertainty, to achieving our goals), with a particular focus on Bayesian statistics and cognitive biases." (41 words)Rationality still an unhelpful name though. Maybe "Bayesian Pragmatism" will catch on instead? …no, I didn’t think so either—we’re stuck with it.

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DyG8tzmj3NnGRE8Gt/explaining-the-rationalist-movement-to-the-uninitiated?commentId=TYCfWrva4GGkgzdb3

So I don’t know a ton about Pragmatism, but from what I do know about it, I definitely see what you’re getting at; there are a lot of similarities between Pragmatism and LW-rationality. One major difference, though: as far as I know, Pragmatism doesn’t accept the correspondence theory of truth (see here, at the bullet "epistemology (truth)"), while LW-rationality usually does (though as is often the case, Yudkowsky seems to have been a bit inconsistent on this topic: here for example he seems to express a deflationist theory of truth). Although, as Liam Bright has pointed out (in a slightly different context), perhaps one’s theory of truth is not as important as some make it out to be.

At any rate, I had already wanted to learn more about Pragmatism, but hadn’t really made the connection with rationality, so this makes me want to learn about it more. So thanks!

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DyG8tzmj3NnGRE8Gt/explaining-the-rationalist-movement-to-the-uninitiated?commentId=KHAxm2zGm6DzhRaJ2

Interesting links—thanks for the wikipedia rabbit-hole :) I initially interpreted your comment as considering Pragmatism to have the kind of "this belief is useful to me, so I will continue to behave as though it is true" attitude that is used to defend religious beliefs that make people happy. I would have disagreed with this interpretation, but after reading what you linked, I see that your point was much more subtle. Looking at the articles for the Deflationary, Pragmatic and Correspondence Theories of Truth, I must admit that some of the nuances are lost on me, but I do think that there is enough overlap between these theories that there isn’t anything too irrational about any of them. The Pragmatic Theory of Truth article states that Pierce’s approach was at least superficially based on the Correspondence Theory, and the Deflationary Theory article uses Tarski’s work as an example, even though he himself considered it to not be a Deflationary approach. I would probably need to spend a long time reading up on this to give a more intelligible response.
I would say that from the perspective of Newcomb-like problems, Pragmatism does an unusually good job at suggesting that you should one-box. When faced with a question about whether one or both boxes contain something, the true contents of the boxes are less relevant than the payoff you will actually receive. I’m not sure what this implies for which theory of truth is the most meaningful, but it seems relevant.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DyG8tzmj3NnGRE8Gt/explaining-the-rationalist-movement-to-the-uninitiated?commentId=2qbmZRqdKT9HWMPSD

Everything comes in weaker and stronger versions. The strongest version of pragmatism would say that truth is nothing more than usefulness. Similarly, only the strongest forms of scepticism amount to despair at finding any kind of truth. You can see the probablistic approach as weak scepticism.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DyG8tzmj3NnGRE8Gt/explaining-the-rationalist-movement-to-the-uninitiated?commentId=Afjpt9F6LgGTxAke4

Hi, This may be a bit late or pedantic—but here is what I find weird about the use of "rationalism" or "rationality" as someone uninitiated, but having had an fairly high overlap with the reading list of this community for 15+ years: I associate "rationalism" with its meaning in philosophy In philosophy, rationalism describes "a methodology or theory in which the criterion of the truth is not sensory but intellectual and deductive". This is opposed to empiricism, in which sensory experience is the main source of understanding truth. Examples of rationalist philosophers are: Descartes, Kant and Ludwig von Mises (!). It’s kind of an extreme position nowadays, since it seems obvious to most reasonable intellectuals that BOTH logic and deduction and empirical observation are important (not to Mises or some Austrian Schoolers). I also associate "rationality" with its meaning in economics. In economics, rationality is a very frequently misunderstood assumption (at least by non-economists). It’s kind of a tautological definition, that only needs to fulfill the criterion of non-transitivity. If you prefer an apple A over a banana B, and a banana B over cacao C, you also have to prefer an apple A over cacao C. Rationality means that actors pursue their chosen ends or preferred courses of action. It’s not "irrational" if someone prefers to spend their time in religious study or practice as opposed to making money on the stock market (even though the monetary value is higher). It’s not irrational if they don’t give reasons for doing what they do, or have biases. It simply means they prefer not to explain themselves to you because they don’t expect any value from it. They simply prefer religious study over making money, and there can be no external criterion that says one is more rational than the other. Why this is important goes too far, but Herbert Gintis explains this well (see here). It seems to be the better word choose is reasonable Try to replace all words above with reasonable instead of rational. Unfortunately it doesn’t roll off the tongue easily, the word "reasonbalism" sounds extremely clunky. But hey, is the ease of use a good reason to choose "rationalism", "rationality" and "rational" as the words to describe what this community is about—even though these terms are loaded? Call me pedantic, but I find it exhausting to point out the extremely common misunderstandings about philosophical rationalism and the economic rationality assumption (more so the latter). And I feel using "rationalism" as the word fuels the confusion. I’m saying this from a position of sympathy. I think what’s happening in this community is great, but the word choice risks that it will be misunderstood or at least require a lengthly explanation in the future. How about "reasonism" and the "reasonist community"?

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/DyG8tzmj3NnGRE8Gt/explaining-the-rationalist-movement-to-the-uninitiated?commentId=kbaTRPDiuX9FWGp8n

FWIW, the word rationalism is used very little by this community to describe itself, for pretty much the reasons you described.