Seek Upside Risk

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/gDN26whdhcPjcH7XM/seek-upside-risk

Link post Contents

Upside Risk

I call this general phenomena of a small chance of a massive win, vs a reasonable chance of a tiny loss, upside risk. And when I think about some of the *really awesome *things in my life, a lot of it came from sources of upside risk:

Becoming emotionally OK with it

So, this is a pretty simple argument. Yet, I do this far less than I could. Why? The root cause, is that my mind *sucks *at thinking about expected values. When I try something new, the cost is clear, concrete and salient. The **benefit **is fuzzy, distant and unclear. And so if I try it and only get the cost, it feels like I failed. Hindsight bias kicks in, and it feels *obvious *that it wasn’t worth trying. The subtle, insidious voice of insecurity in my head pushes me to play it safe, not stick my neck out, to not risk it. That it’s not worth the effort, and things will never work out well. I’m a loss averse person, and I can’t see a *guaranteed *story for how this upside will pay out, so it feels not worth reaching for. I think this is one of the most poisonous and damaging bugs currently in my life. I think this *significantly *cuts off a lot of awesome potential in my life. So **fuck that. **I don’t *need *a precise story for how to get this upside, I just need to expose myself to as much as possible. So how can I reframe this and *do *something about it? Some of my favourite strategies:

Implementing

So, say you now agree that upside risk is extremely valuable, and you’ve somewhat overcome the aversion. How can we make this actionable? There are a few different ways of framing the core lesson:

Another mindset is to optimise for the best-case scenario, which I like to think of as fishing for white swans. Some strategies:

Some generic examples of things worth doing:

And these are just my examples! Upside risk is a function of *your *life, *your *values, and *your *circumstances. What are some examples of this in *your *life? **Exercise: **Set a 5 minute timer, and think about the ideas in this post. What are sources of upside risk *you *could seek out?

Conclusion

Obviously, I’m making an overly strong case in this post. We have finite time, and there are trade-offs. If you *always *chase upside risk, you’re Pascal’s Mugging yourself out of any free time. Sometimes there are hidden big *downside *risks. But I see a *lot *of instances of safe, moderate actions with upside risk that aren’t taken. And, at least in my social circles, I think on the margin people should seek upside risk way more! So if the ideas in this post resonated with you, live it! Keep score in terms of EV. Seek novelty. Try new things. Go outside your comfort zone. Ask for things. Notice the *massive *pile of potential wins in your life, and ask whether you’re OK with leaving all of that on the table. What’s a source of upside risk you could seek right now?

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/gDN26whdhcPjcH7XM/seek-upside-risk?commentId=cHn7vDA7EKSShWAx9

I love the spirit of this post, but all the focus on expected value raised some alarms in my head. Maximizing the expected value in ordinary (financial) betting leads to bad decisions (St. Petersburg paradox), and it can do the same in other areas of life. I can see you know this intuitively, because you mentioned Pascal’s Mugging. Just letting you know that there’s math that accounts for this, too: To avoid wasting life on Pascal’s Mugging (or going broke on bad bets), we maximize the expected logarithm of value (Kelly Criterion), because we get diminishing utility from higher amounts of the same thing.

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/gDN26whdhcPjcH7XM/seek-upside-risk?commentId=5GTpmGemNjSpCjrog

Thanks! Yeah, I definitely agree that *literally *maximising for EV can be bad. The reason I heavily emphasised that is to convey the key point that you’re trying to make decisions under uncertainty, uncertainty is an inherent fact of life, and that, at least for me, thinking about EV leads to systematically better decisions. Because I’m sufficiently bad by default at accounting for uncertainty, that a focus on EV pushes me in the right direction. In practice, the decision theory would be along the lines of "try estimating EV. If the answer is obviously, *massively *positive then do it, otherwise think harder". (In which case maximise E(log(X)) and E(X) should give the same answer). And the post was similarly aimed at people who have such a strong bias, that thinking about EV is a nudge in the right direction. Would you have preferred the post if framed around E(log(X))?

Comment

Would you have preferred the post if framed around E(log(X))? Technically yes, but I know it’d be harder to use as a mental model in everyday life. And anyway, I have the same initial bias as you

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/gDN26whdhcPjcH7XM/seek-upside-risk?commentId=QhjRbSYBZ9A2ix3m6

Isn’t there a bit of a contradiction when you say choice and uncertainty make you uncomfortable but when you ask other people to make choices you should frame it as giving them opportunity?

I’m not saying either is wrong but it does seem a little off to say "bad for me, good for you". Or at least a bit of a paradox.

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/gDN26whdhcPjcH7XM/seek-upside-risk?commentId=iJtRCEs6o5cEiWsKp

Fair point that that’s somewhat hypocritical, and undercuts my point. I think the point still often stands though—this is a bug *I *have, but it’s far from universal; and even for me, the answer to a choice is often obvious. But in those cases it’s uninteresting and scarcely feels like a choice.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/gDN26whdhcPjcH7XM/seek-upside-risk?commentId=xMRZoFsQqcoY62Cej

I agree that this is a really important concept. Two related ideas are asymmetric risk and Barbell strategies, both of which are things that Nassim Nicholas Taleb writes about a lot.