Referencing the Unreferencable

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vyNoR8iQoKxEk839Z/referencing-the-unreferencable

Jessicata wrote a post on The Absurdity of Un-referencable Entities. The comments there give many good reasons against her claim that unreferencable entities don’t make sense. Nonetheless, I think it is worthwhile to consider this issue in more detail as there are many philosophical problems in which seemingly unreferencable entities arise. We will begin by making two key points about references. Once we understand them, we will have dissolved the paradox. Firstly, "referencable" is relative to the agent. If the universe consists of two non-interacting boxes, then agents in the first box can reference object in the first box and agents in the second box can reference objects in the second, but neither can reference objects in the other. Further, if an agent is in a simulation with no access to the outside, that agent can only reference objects in the simulation, while someone outside can reference objects in both the external world and simulation. Secondly, even when given an agent as a reference frame, we still need further clarification. Here’s a list of things we might want to reference:

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vyNoR8iQoKxEk839Z/referencing-the-unreferencable?commentId=czeracFYzJcqWnsbm

If you fix a notion of referenceability rather that equivocating, then the point that talking of unreferenceable entities is absurd will stand.

If you equivocate, then very little can be said in general about referenceability.

(I would say that "our universe’s simulators" is referenceable, since it’s positing something that causes sensory inputs)

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vyNoR8iQoKxEk839Z/referencing-the-unreferencable?commentId=w7RPNwWcTfgM2FWQJ

Equivicaction is using a term in different senses *during the course of an argument"..that is under conditions where it should normatively have a stable meaning. It is still the case that some words are ambiguous, and that recognising ambiguity can solve problems.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vyNoR8iQoKxEk839Z/referencing-the-unreferencable?commentId=N7cgm5CJTjf5CDjde

We will still be able to talk about unreferencable elements, but only by "referencing" them in a different sense than what we mean by "unreferencable". The key is that it might seem like we are only using the word in one sense until we really break down the definition, at which point it becomes clear we are using it in different senses. And it’s not equivocating because we are only using the word referencable in a particular way. When we "reference" unreferencable elements we don’t call it "referencing" even though we are in the casual sense.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vyNoR8iQoKxEk839Z/referencing-the-unreferencable?commentId=LeHBuGgfXnDoYouhj

Suppose that I am in a simulation, and the simulator drops in a hard disc containing a detailed description of the world outside the simulation. This description says how to reply. The simulator is clearly referencable. Gradually reduce the amount of evidence. You are looking at a pattern in coinflips, it might be a message from simulators, or maybe noise. You are looking at physical constants and wondering why the simulators chose \alpha=1/137. There is no sharp line from referencable to unreferencable. Just a gradual increase in uncertainty. When I say "there is a chair over there" I am not refer to a single hypothesis, a particular arrangement of atoms. Instead I am refering to an implicitly represented ensemble of hypothesis. This ensemble contains universes made of atoms, strings, platonic elements and much else besides. Within the set of atomic universes, the set contains all arrangements of atoms that contain a chair over there. So within this set is a universe of atoms, defined in terms of a long list of coordinates, in which [the moon is made of green cheese, and a solid diamond rocking chair is in the indicated direction ][Translated from a big list of numbers]. So "the simulator has green hair" is only a valid proposition over the subset of possible universes that contain exactly one simulator. The probability you assign to this subset can vary. When it is almost 1, "the simulator has green hair" feels either true or false. You feel like you can reference "the simulator"

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vyNoR8iQoKxEk839Z/referencing-the-unreferencable?commentId=qZxDrpEdunHxo86Lu

"Suppose that I am in a simulation, and the simulator drops in a hard disc containing a detailed description of the world outside the simulation. This description says how to reply. The simulator is clearly referencable"—yeah, the situation can be dynamic. The simulator can be unreferencable at the start and then become referencable later like if a cat comes into my vision I can then say "that cat" when before I couldn’t have.