Feminism and Femininity

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ybofMJJ9JaPhQimcn/feminism-and-femininity

Is it feminist to wear lipstick? There are four possible views on the position that feminist thought should take with respect to expressions of conventional femininity in patriarchal societies:

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ybofMJJ9JaPhQimcn/feminism-and-femininity?commentId=wkcLsPt4Tm27HAkH8

But ideally one would practise policies that improve the lives of women regardless of the theory of patriarchy that one subscribes to. This might also be a good idea if, hypothetically speaking, all proposed theories are wrong.

On object level, I believe that descriptions of gender relations that see "men" and "women" as two homogenous groups, and ignore the intrasexual competition, are hopelessly wrong. Patriarchy is something that some men and some women do together to all men and all women. (Which suggests that the name is a bit misleading.) The discussion about value of work seems to ignore the market. For example, taking care of your kids is important, but it is something you do for your own kids. Meanwhile, the person who produces flavoured sugar water, produces it for other people. (If you produce a sugar water at your home and drink it all with your family, the social reward for doing so will be zero.) And you do get some social respect if you raise your kids well. (And some disrespect if you fail at it. And the person who fails at producing the flavoured sugar water will get fired.)

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ybofMJJ9JaPhQimcn/feminism-and-femininity?commentId=xQLEkCTJxynet8XoS

With enough axioms you can reach any conclusion you want.

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ybofMJJ9JaPhQimcn/feminism-and-femininity?commentId=HoXuuwrXYAEPFPLYD

Could you be more specific?

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You list four "positions that feminist thought should take" and three "views of how patriarchy works", and then distinguish multiple versions of these. Then there are "perspectives" and "extraordinary complexities", but as far as I can see, no idea of trying to move towards knowledge and away from ignorance. There is only endless discussion, and responses to ideas, and confrontation of this view by that view, and so on. There is no evidence, only suggestive stories, real or imaginary. Nothing is ever disproven, nothing is subjected to any experimental test, there is nothing but an endless game of ideas in which the moves are motivated only by the prize of social power.

This is, however, the usual form that thinking takes in the humanities. It is not the sort of thing that can lead towards knowledge and away from ignorance. The very idea seems out of bounds.

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Yeah the point of this post was conceptual clarity rather than a lit review of the literature on gender realtions. I think this is valueable because I haven’t read something that tries to clearly lay out how empirical postitions on the causes of gender inequality should affect the stratagy that one takes, although I don’t have a deep knowledge of feminist literature.