"If" is in the map

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map

Update: See the comment by philh. These logical operations are matters of convention, but the way that it is defined is less arbitary than I thought! I want to start this sequence with a very basic example—the word "if". I expect that most people here already know that there are two definitions of "if":

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map?commentId=WcE6jvEpnd7eiEHNe

Consider the sentence, "If pigs could fly, then Trump is Queen of England". Both components are false and when this occurs, the if-statement is considered false.> However, this is purely a matter of convention. There’s no reason why we couldn’t consider these sentences where the condition is false to be false or undefined.Sentences of the form "If P, then Q" are true when both P and Q are false. According to standard logical interpretation, at least. (After all, if P is false, then not-P is true, and you yourself said if statements are equivalent to B-or-not-A.) (Also, I think you mean "if pigs can fly" since using "could" makes it a counterfactual rather than logical claim, right?) And there are good reasons for this, if I recall correctly from my logic classes (though I don’t remember what they were, and I agree that ultimately it’s a matter of convention.)

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map?commentId=wrqxQ3zvumAvNbDy5

Stipulate that we want to choose some boolean function → on two inputs to represent "if P, then Q". Then we want T → T = T, T → F = F or what are we even doing with our lives.

So we have four choices for how to define F → T and F → F. The standard choice says both are true. What about other choices?

Suppose we have F → F = F. Then we’ve translated "if P, then Q" into something that asserts Q and maybe (depending on F → T) also asserts P. That seems like a bad translation. So let’s say F → F = T. (Notably, if we add "undefined", then F → F = U has the same problem, when P and Q are defined it lets P → Q be true only if Q is true.) Without this, we can’t really translate "if P, then Q. Not Q. Therefore, not P," because (P → Q) ∧ ¬Q is a contradiction. (Which does still give us ¬P, but it also gives us P, so.)

All that’s left is F → T. If we say this is false, then our "if P, then Q" is translated into something that means "P and Q are either both true, or both false", or P = Q. That seems like a bad translation too.

Basically, "if P, then Q" just doesn’t translate very well into boolean logic, but all the other ways to translate it seem worse.

Comment

Thanks for posting this. I didn’t realise that there were such good reasons for this convention!

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map?commentId=c5uWxfQ7bsn9N9j8x

Fixed now. I really should have checked my post for mistakes like this.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map?commentId=oPQnaCPpDmgLQKxGo

If I drop this ball, it will bounce back up to me. Is that ‘if’ in the territory? I feel like the potential to bounce when dropped is extrapolable from the physical properties of the ball. Like there’s a mathematics of correct hypothetical situations to be discovered, which is part of the territory as much as e.g. Godel’s theorem is.

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map?commentId=bKP4J4uX42YW4XR2n

This is a variant (sometimes considered a separate case) of the counterfactual if—the hypothetical if. Or possibly an even more specific variant, the predictive if. We don’t yet know what the future territory is—you may or may not drop the ball. It may or may not bounce (perhaps there’ll be carpet there when dropped). The map contains a distribution of things that correspond imperfectly to the territory. The conditional statement that, for those imagined territories where I drop the ball, the ball will bounce up, is definitely in the map. Any time you talk about the "imagined" or "possible" or "potential", you’re describing a map rather than the territory.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map?commentId=aD54KzRrAWHXLNZeR

Also, see my post on Natural Structures

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kS9TJn5d8KfdyEoQX/if-is-in-the-map?commentId=XBoZnLRTdrcDxb7YP

Counterfactuals are actually much harder to define than you might think.