Art: A Rationalist’s Take?

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CvyQCNBNr4EX6rsgy/art-a-rationalist-s-take

Hello LWers, I am in my 20s, and I like to collect art. Admittedly, I am a lurker on the LW forums and can proudly say I have been for a very long time now. I’ve refrained from commenting simply because I have not felt that I have all that much to contribute, but rather, find that I have much to learn still. In my time lurking, I have come across so many spectacular posts, which in turn, have expanded my way of interpreting real-world scenarios. Realising there exists a general proclivity for thoughtful discussion in this lesser known corner of the internet, I’ve only remained hesistant to post this because of the potential to dampen things around here with discussions about personal matters. It is my intention to take advantage of the many bright minds attracted to this forum that do actually take an interest in fine art, then perhaps, better understand how a team of rationalists would see through my goals and execute a plan of action, if in my shoes, eager to succeed. To be honest, I don’t exactly know what brought about my passion for collecting art. Growing up I was always interested in collecting things like coins, rocks, negatives, etc. I always dreamt of having a collection of something for others to appreciate and learn more about. Today, I find this ambition takes the form of a bias more than I’d like for it to; this is due to my involvement in art-centric projects that would stand to benefit me. A COI is what I see it all as. The concept of arbitrage in the art world is nothing new. However, the idea that we can use modern technologies and mainstream platforms to find, interpret, attribute, even invest in art is life-changing. The possibility for us to be our own advisors, and for scientists to step-in where specialists and connosseiurs were once highly-valued makes the ‘art specialist/​committee’ less useful in the field of art authentication. It was rarely [if ever] the likely case that you could purchase a painting by Monet, Cézanne, or Delacroix for 1⁄1,000,000th of it’s value 150 years ago. The actual value of their work then in comparison to their value today was much different of course. 150 years later however, and one can argue such a possibility (under the unlikeliest of circumstances) is quite possible. But, how does one find these rare opportunities? Even more crucial to understand, can this be done with some consistency? If so, is it less rare and might such methods add credibility to something previously unknown or redefine the approach taken in art authentication/​valuation? The point here is, provenance, once lost, is hard to re-assemble. 150 years is a long time to prove the work you bought at a tiny fraction of its real-value is authentic. In this timeline, it’s certainly long enough to accept that the state of documentation for a blue chip work of art is going to have some blindspots if it’s considered saleable. We find this is especially the case with works that were looted during WWI and WWII. Shamelessly, auction houses and musesums fight tooth and nail to ensure that they are not in the end liable for facilitating the transacting of pilfered art. Auction houses proceed with sales even when the provenance of a work is murky for many reasons like: $, £, €, ¥, duh. It’s also likely that this occurs because auction houses do not want to pass up on their opportunity to work with an established collector. Basically, FOMO dictates a lot of the risks that these auction houses take. A recent example of this, consider the work Salvatore Mundi attributed to Leonardo da Vinci. The painting was acquired for less than $10K in New Orleans in 2005, then sold for $450.3MM in 2017...all this despite the unarguable lack of certainty as well as the extreme differences in opinion by Leonardo experts whom were consulted on the matter. Surely this is not the future of art authentication? Let me be clear, you won’t find me in the crowd of blue bloods at the next auction sale. At current, I am further from the title of established collector than I’d like to be. Though, to be fair, I am also far less demanding in my expectations. I only seek truth (as given) or legitimate proof to indicate otherwise. Perhaps the Russian Oligarch that owned the painting by Leonardo had some favors he was able to call in to the National Gallery, which in turn, led to the possibility of a sale. I, on the other hand, have no favors I can call in. Yet still, much like the Russian Oligarch once was, I’m stuck waiting on the experts to give my findings credibility. However, I, unlike the Russian, am not willing to pay an arm and a leg for it. The paintings I’m implicitly referring to, for the purpose of this post, are paintings in my collection which are attributable to Cézanne, Monet, Lautrec, and Chassériau. I chose these four paintings at the outset mostly because they were representative of style, because they were indeed painted by well-known French artists, and finally, because I thought they would garner the most enthusiasm from an interested base in the near-term. They would, after all, be considered blue chip works by any auction house if saleable. To say the least, this was foolish reasoning, but let’s avoid delving into that now (however, you should feel free to comment on my idiocy below, if you so please). Okay, for now, let’s assume you’re living in my alternate world and that in this reality you are given these paintings by the** four artists listed above**. Of course, you have no way of readily proving they are authentic in this world either (w/​o scientific evidence), but you can still believe that there is enough credibility at face to assume they are authenticable. Why, if you are given no firm proof in this world I’ve put you in either?

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CvyQCNBNr4EX6rsgy/art-a-rationalist-s-take?commentId=Pz5i4DFpcRyANXfPK

What draws you to this topic and pursuit? I do not share the desire, and am curious. I enjoy many styles, and am quite happy to view them occasionally and to have reproductions and less-famous instances in my house where I can see them often. For the most part, though, I’m happy they exist, and have no need of personal posession or exclusion of others.
I often reuse a Stephen Wright joke: "I have the world’s largest collection of seashells. I keep it on all the beaches of the world. Perhaps you’ve seen it." I feel this way about many things that other people collect—I’m appreciative when they’re collected and displayed, but have no desire to personally hoard them.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CvyQCNBNr4EX6rsgy/art-a-rationalist-s-take?commentId=WBbXZrrY8QhLcTKrC

I will give you my perspective. You say: The reality in which we live is one wherein a painting can b*> e * authentic all the while being deemed nothing more than a "clumsy pastiche", or worse yet, one where that "clumsy pastiche" can be deemed inauthentic on faulty logic or as a result of ulterior motives. This is something I’ve not gripped entirely but rather am still working on grasping better.I believe that the reason you are having trouble to grasp this is that you are talking about two different things. The one thing is art and the other is commerce. The reality is that art does not need authentication. It is experientially verified. The authentication factor is relevant only in the trading of certain works of art; or for historical, archelogical, sociological etc. reasons . It is interesting to see, for contrast, the way art functions (or used to at least) in certain non western contexts where it has not been commodified to such an extend. Traditionally in some places in the east, artists did not sign their work. First of all it was a gesture that they did not create for personal gain but for the betterment of humanity, but also a recognition that the artwork, if real, should be able to stand on its own without the need (and distortion) of reputation. It is in the same manner, that when unknown musicians really perform on the street, people are drawn as if mesmerised towards the sound. What they identify does not need authentication.

Comment

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CvyQCNBNr4EX6rsgy/art-a-rationalist-s-take?commentId=48yxWBvknbNDHSt24

It is in the same manner, that when unknown musicians > really perform on the street, people are drawn as if mesmerised towards the sound.No, they’re not.

Comment

Haha, ok. I might have over romanticise my last sentence ;) let me be more specific (though even with these additions not really making justice to the depth of our subject): It is in the same manner, that when unknown musicians really perform on the street (taking into account time, place and audience), people (that are not distracted and have an accordingly developed aesthetic sense) are drawn towards the sound. [Example] It would also be interesting to check what role reputation (of the musician) instead of quality of performance played in your choice of example.