* jonadab: renames the journal file... FriendlyPerson[m: jonadab: I am not sure if this would do a thing about that and simply drops the "weird" chunks but taking a backup and giving Sqlite3's .recover the "college try" might be worth something? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=396087#p396087 jonadab: I was able to open the thing in sqlite3, but in response to .recover it says unknown command. (I'm on oldstable, so it's likely that I have an oldish version of sqlite3.) jonadab: However, it appears that moving the journal aside lets minetestmapper work. jonadab: Yes, that's much better. jonadab: The map now includes a bunch of stuff that I had generated after the previous time I ran minetestmapper, before the blink. FriendlyPerson[m: I am glad maybe the mod didn't expected it to be there since it was believing the world would be in a consistent state. jonadab: minetestmapper isn't a mod as such. It's a separate program from the game itself. jonadab: It just reads the world database directly and generates a map. FriendlyPerson[m: Ah got ya, sorry for my own confusion then. :( Teckla: 9 rocky_fuchsian_f: Aha who wanna be my Minetest bf and put our beds next to each other? rocky_fuchsian_f: (Sorta on topic lol) oneplustwo: lmao oneplustwo: minetest really is copying the minecraft experience GNUHacker: a cute mod: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Psyco/uwu/ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix GUIEditBoxWithScrollBar using a smaller steps than intlGUIEditBox… 131ab29f1 https://git.io/JRBzu (152021-08-08T16:59:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Pevernow -> 03minetest/minetest: Gettext support on Android (#11435) 13c6eddb0 https://git.io/JRBzg (152021-08-08T16:59:07Z) jonadab: Ok, so I thought I had worked around the problem caused by the power blink, by moving the map.sqlite-journal file aside. This did allow minetestmapper to run, and it picked up everything that had changed since previous mapping up to the power blink. But now it is NOT picking up anything that has happened since the power blink. I can break and place blocks, but no changes, including exploration, have jonadab: any effect on what minetestmapper sees. jonadab: @oneplustwo: Yeah, that's why the first five minutes of every Minetest game is when you mine down 12-15 blocks below the surface to collect all the diamonds you will ever need, and then after that your entire progression consists of building more and larger and more powerful monster-killing facilities. That's totally the experience we're going for in Minetest now. FriendlyPerson[m: "@oneplustwo: Yeah, that's why..." <- And wondering why half the stuffs break so you get frustrated and give up on your "master facilities plans". jonadab: Eh, being confused about why stuff is broken can happen just as much with pipeworks, as with redstone. jonadab: The details are different, but anytime you're designing technical stuff, you're gonna get confused about why it's not doing what you want. jonadab: The difference, really, is that Minetest is about mining, to a much greater extent. I mean, even if you're using a ton of technic and whatnot, you still mine. Maybe you use HV quarries, or digtrons, to do it, but you still mine. jonadab: The other voxel-based game is much more about exploiting monsters. jonadab: Which, incidentally, is one reason I'm opposed to MT mods that add monsters with meaningful death drops. jonadab: That's Not How We Do Things. jonadab: Though I'll tell you what I *am* thinking about. I'm thinking about leech-mining, wherein flowing water that flows past stone builds up a "leeched minerals content" quantity, that increases with every stone block it flows past, and can then be exploited using some kind of filter or sieve, to obtain small amounts (perhaps "grains") of minerals. Then you toss 99 grains of something into a furnace, and jonadab: you get an ingot. specing: cool idea jonadab: Obviously, this shouldn't produce things like diamonds or mese. Probably only metals. Copper would be the thing you'd mainly want out of it, tbh. specing: jonadab: you can use teckpack's gravelsieve jonadab: Hmm, I could maybe base some of the code on that. FriendlyPerson[m: "Eh, being confused about why..." <- This is not true at least with my limited testing and with a dedicated player. We can't for the love of humanely figure out a mean to get stuffs out of a HV machines with the default control logic upgrade(s). Even if I installs two (the max these puppies will take) they will not empty themsleves fast enough. That's one of the pain points of Technic/Pipeworks. jonadab: If I decide to implement the thing. specing: I wonder if there's a server with mineral trees jonadab: FriendlyPerson[m: Stackwise injectors. jonadab: specing: Does it count if they're underground? specing: I guess? What's the difference? jonadab: Because caverealms is on numerous servers. specing: Oh specing: I meant something else specing: jonadab: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12596 FriendlyPerson[m: jonadab: Aren't those for inputs not outputs? specing: jonadab: it's kinda like your idea specing: jonadab: just using trees instead of water jonadab: Ah. jonadab: FriendlyPerson[m: Injectors pull things out of whatever's on the "left" side of them. jonadab: Chest, technic output, whatever. specing: serverlist says that there is no server with mineral trees jonadab: The reason I was thinking of the leech-mining thing, is because I was trying to come up with a reasonable MT-based Skyblock-like setup, with a progression that doesn't use mining at all. Which is much harder to do for MT than for MC, because MT is way more mining-oriented. specing: I think it would be cool to have them. Have them take a whole IRL month to grow or something. That is if you water them regularly :P jonadab: But I figured with a cobble generator and trees for charcoal, you could make stone... specing: jonadab: that's how gravelsieve works. cobblegen -> grinder -> sieve specing: Why do you need charcoal, though? Pexin: FriendlyPerson[m: linuxforks has a custom technic which includes, among other things, a stackwise control logic unit jonadab: specing: charcoal to power the furnaces to smelt cobble into stone. jonadab: Oh, yes, the "Advanced Control Logic Unit". jonadab: Useful for when you're trying to cram into a small space. But honestly, 99% of the time, just use an injector. Pexin: injectors, incidentally, should REALLY be named "ejectors" Pexin: but, whatya do jonadab: A lot of things are misnamed. jonadab: The table saw is called a "circular saw", because whoever made it just didn't know the difference. Pexin: https://github.com/h-v-smacker/technic if interested jonadab: Note that a lot of the li-fo mods go out of their way to get rid of one of the really common basic mods that a ton of things depend on (might've been basic_materials, or something like that). jonadab: Not sure if that is relevant for their Technic fork. jonadab: Personally, the ones I want to get rid of are homedecor and unified_dyes. specing: Pexin: they inject into pneumatic tube system, hence injectors Pexin: |:( jonadab: Man, this is weird. I can place blocks, _stop the server_, start the server back up, connect again, and the blocks I placed are there. But minetestmapper is still getting exactly what it was getting before the power blink the other day. FriendlyPerson[m: Also this laughs my socks off! A mod ACTUALLY took the Sammy Rating System seriously enough to put it in their mod. 🤦‍♂️ * FriendlyPerson[m: uploaded an image: (203KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/CUoCkRCeqDtVttxfMlwnmyKT/Screenshot%20from%202021-08-08%2014-33-00.png > Xanabella: Virus Scanner scan "potentialy dangerous" ... with Minetest you can do "much". Check the Mod, its OpenSouce and report it to your Virus Scanner to add the Mod on WhiteList FriendlyPerson[m: "FriendlyPerson: Injectors pull..." <- Couldn't get this to work. It's left to pull then push out any other sides but the front right? * FriendlyPerson[m: uploaded an image: (1199KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EeFmLoiQnWvjOHcICXRSxNbN/screenshot_20210808_144801.png > FriendlyPerson[m: That was my setup, pushing the button did nothing even though the device was "enabled". Xanabella: Place the Furnace, on Side the Injector(look Arrow look away from it) then tube on the other Side and end in Chest ... and Push the Injector from Hand to test (without Mesecon and Button) Xanabella: you dont even need Tube ... Furnace, Injector, Chest ... and maybe look YouTube Vids Xanabella: and if you use internacl Control Logic, it come Right out ... Chest(Tube)<---Furnace FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: The exact issue is that. Even if we install two circuits it's still doesn't empties in time so we are left spamming HV machines in case one of them falls behind. FriendlyPerson[m: Every machine mod that were in Minecraft that intended full automation always either eject themselves properly or have relevant upgrades to keep up the speed internally. Pexin: wait what FriendlyPerson[m: Point being it's frustrating to get Technic to scale properly. Xanabella: It has Stack Injector that do it. i use mese_plus with adjustable_blink_plant 0.5s ... and you can Search (you dead) to found in Technic were was the 4s Tact to change the Mod himself Pexin: self contained injector only pops items out the bottom, and does so continuously FriendlyPerson[m: Pexin: Well that was not mentioned in the Pipeworks wiki at all. That is why we are getting frustrated over here. Pexin: self contained injector screwed me up royal at first haha FriendlyPerson[m: Sure does, same goes for Technic too. Because if they added higher teir machines then they should have relevant internal upgrades. Xanabella: MineTest was OpenSource and Free to Help to Improve it ... Nobody say its Perfect, everybody has ideas and even if i change me own "technic mod", only the owner can change ContentDB Xanabella: For Furnace was the easy way "Chest, Hopper, Normal Furnance, Hopper, Chest" and fill be hand (injector to recolect if more the one "Collum") Xanabella: Hopper, Furnace, Hopper and on side Hopper(with bio_fuel on top) me Favorite FriendlyPerson[m: "MineTest was OpenSource and Free..." <- There's a difference between perfection and consistency however. Xanabella: Feel you free to help to improve it and make it better ... all tubework was 4s, and Injector->Ejector only 1 Char to change jonadab: FriendlyPerson[m: The texture of the injectors looks like arrows, pointing from the side they pull from, to the side they eject to. jonadab: If you use stackwise injectors, it doesn't matter if the injector temporarily gets behind, it'll catch up by taking the whole stack. FriendlyPerson[m: jonadab: It just looks like a closed form of chest. At least from the front of the device. jonadab: Chest? Oh, are you attempting to use the self-contained injector? I've never used those. Only the itemwise (blue arrows), stackwise (yellow arrows), or digiline (light blue arrows). jonadab: And you can activate them by just slapping a blinky plant next to them. jonadab: Except the digiline one. For that you need to send digiline signals, obviously. jonadab: I have less experience with it, but enough to know that it's very powerful. jonadab: There's one piece of equipment where the stackwise injectors can get behind and let the device fill up, and that's the MV thresher, especially if you use it on grass, which has three outputs. The device has only four slots, and the injector will keep taking from slot 1 even though that's the least-full stack, and then one of the other stacks will overflow into slot 4... specing: Never heard of such a machine Pexin: also centrifuge jonadab: Oh, maybe the centrifuge too, yeah. e.g. if separating dirt to get clay. jonadab: specing: I think it's not from Technic itself, but an add-ons mod made to go with Technic. FriendlyPerson[m: I also not sure if the 2secs that plant does is suffice for a HV machine that rotates stocks like from quarries and such. FriendlyPerson[m: Since stackwises only does one output at a time. Regardless if it actually a full stack or not. Xanabella: Maybe: 10 Furnance on line with ControlLogic, 1tube left to reCollect all in one Chest. top Tube to refill, down Supply FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: Ya that what we ending having to do. But the thing is that it's not just consistent game play. IDEALLY what would happen if that upgrade is installed it would spews out at the proper rate or you would have something like a MV version and HV one. Like IFT does (stackwise advanced one). Xanabella: the you get all Peaple angry that want Technic on Server becaus the Crash of OverFlow ... Find Peaple that spend Money for Nasa-Server and Internet bill or Make Pay-Version ... in every case some Peaple get Angry FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: They're not angry they are just frustrated that they are unable to understand (or it's hard for them to be doing so) because of these inconsistencies. Even if you do, it's still not as fun with consistently reasonably being there. Xanabella: The Peaple on Sever dont understand why the Crash and was to Slow ... and noboy understand that Pay-Game with Payed Programer with full time job do it better Swift110-mobile: hey all FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: That is why a server should be keeping things informed for them so they can and secondary that isn't always the case. The only thing you get with "paid for" works are the contractuals and/or SLAs. Not much else. Hence the different between a Host and you DIYing it that the Host have contracts in place while your server at home does not. Therefore the person at home might not be able to deliver similar SLAs goals. Xanabella: and even in Pay-Game, support was full of bug ... after 10y the call it Feature. You ask for MineTest more ... FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: That is what i mean, just paying for something doesn't automatically means it's better. Xanabella: Change your Code, show your solution and the MineTest Support and All other was grateful for Help Xanabella: technic\machines\register\common.lua ... Line 63: technic.send_items <--- Thats te function that send to Pipe, i dont found where the call it in 4s tact and give up Xanabella: @ FriendlyPerson[m Find where the was called or try to change it that the put out StackWise out Xanabella: if you want 5x5 Output to stack more instead of 2x2 its easyer Xanabella: @Friendlyperson i have problem to query you, join #Friendlyperson FriendlyPerson[m: "@Friendlyperson i have problem..." <- It's okay I can't find the room here on Element, is it possible to get an invite to it instead? Xanabella: You must log into your NickServ account to message this user <--- /join FriendlyPerson FriendlyPerson[m: "You must log into your NickServ..." <- I am confused my Matrix NickServ is erroring out the command even though I am using /join RoomAddress jordan4ibanez: Is it possible to disable opening the inventory? rubenwardy: You can try setting the formspec to "" Xanabella: @FriendlyPerson then opposite, you join/open a channel and tell/invite me FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: I had to add the # but even then it said the room is not accessible to me. sfan5: rubenwardy: the client could just prevent opening it if the formspec is empty rubenwardy: I suspect it may already do that FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: I made a Private Matrix room and invited you there. Were you able to actually get it? It said that you joined the room. But your not have read/responded in it. Xanabella: [01:07:34] Did that worked for you? <--- recive query, no invite and still cant answer ... name of the room? FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: I guess your bridge is not working with Matrix then. Is there a way for me to make a Librea room through NickServ or something? I don't know how to make an IRC room... sfan5: you can join a room of any name and it will exist Xanabella: just type "/join xxxxxx" or "/join #xxxxxxx" sfan5: or start to exist if it doesn't yet FriendlyPerson[m: It's not working I made a room I sure wouldn't exists and it saying it's not accessible... * FriendlyPerson[m: uploaded an image: (421KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/gWLqXYbmbpAsMLAUkitPItgP/Screenshot%20from%202021-08-08%2019-16-34.png > FriendlyPerson[m: Same for Xanabella 's room too. Xanabella: just to be sure of therm ... we are in Room #minetest and Query me Private ... you say Private Matrix room ... #PrivateFP: ???dont know FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: Yes I first made a private Matrix room which I invited you and your bridge accepted it. But you didn't see it apparently. So I thought to make a librea room on my end. Which NickServ is not giving me. FriendlyPerson[m: Because of the error above (as well as your room too). Xanabella: the same like you have enter #minetest ... just some "nonsense text" ... you join allvais ... existing ones ore new are same sfan5: hah I half expected that the matrix bridge wouldn't let you do this FriendlyPerson[m: sfan5: No the command does exists it's errors out if you don't put the hashbang. But the issue is is starting/joining a room. Whether it's active or not. FriendlyPerson[m: And I don't understand why someone else was able to INVITE me to a DM but not Xanabella unless they didn't tried that already. jordan4ibanez: Is it possible to check if an inventory is open? Xanabella: [01:30:16] Xanabella hat FriendlyPerson[m in den Channel #Friendlyperson eingeladen <---> and Querry(Private) You must log into your NickServ account to message this user Xanabella: Here we have Chanserve, how/can you access/join other channel or need vor everyone invite? Xanabella: [01:41:08] How about now there? ... [01:41:28] a ... [01:41:28] You must log into your NickServ account to message this user FriendlyPerson[m: I tried querying you Xanabella , are you able to see my chat now that I did it from the /query command? Xanabella: ... /join room with "#" not /query Private FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: As I said that not working on my end so I am trying to figure out how to get to you instead. as any time I do /join #room it gives me a "not available" error. Xanabella: try join #lordofthetest or #minetest-de ... just something diffrent as #minetest Xanabella: maybe ist for you not Join but Enter/Access FriendlyPerson[m: Xanabella: It is join but it's not working... * FriendlyPerson[m: uploaded an image: (402KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/iEsMRbuLrwbGkCHdTuDjRpgQ/Screenshot%20from%202021-08-08%2019-46-26.png > FriendlyPerson[m: It just won't let me. I am so confused Xanabella: maybe not we has problem but Matrix<->Libera ... its late, the Problem dont run awai and never run out asdflkj_sh: erlehmann: yes, twitch chat uses irc, with some nonstandard extensions but similar enough that you can connect with many normal clients iiuc erlehmann: oh interesting erlehmann: any docs on that? IvanGorinich: Hello Benrob0329: Connecting to Twitch IRC doesn't work anymore afaik alguien: minetest basic_robot "direction" is overloaded: 1) absolute (N,E,S,W) 2) relative(up, down, left, right, forward, backward) 3) yaw 4) vectors (self.viewdir(), ie cos(yaw), 0 , sin(yaw)) 5) dirid () alguien: you start thinking in terms of 1 at first. You program in terms of 2. You track your own view in terms of 3. You track the bot's view int erms of 4. To properly orient stuff you need 5 alguien: *properly orient stuff to place alguien: I'm attempting to place a block oriented the same way as the robot. That is to say, I need to convert #4 into #5 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4 -- cppcheck warnings ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5 -- Fixed key names so the key set menu now works. by adamnew123456 alguien: Also I'm not sure if it's the server or what, but player.getview(someone) (which is player:get_look_dir()) returns a different vector than does self.viewdir() ({x=math.cos(yaw), y = 0, z=math.sin(yaw)}) Krock: alguien: https://dev.minetest.net/images/a/aa/player_object_look_horizontal_vertical_yaw.png Krock: for Z you need cos, and X -sin alguien: yeah basic_robot does it the other way around, sets x to cos, and y to sin alguien: s/y/z/ alguien: i mean: replace y in z in that sentence alguien: s/in/with/ alguien: sorry about that alguien: https://github.com/ac-minetest/basic_robot/blob/master/init.lua#L106 alguien: how do you turn off the new fly/swim where you look movement? Krock: alguien: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L218-L221 Krock: P like Pitch move alguien: thanks mate, that'll help jonadab: Hmm. My script that calls minetestmapper was working fine before the power blink. Now, minetestmapper just says "Exception: attempt to write a readonly database" and exits. minetestserver is able to access the world, and I can sign on with a client and break and place blocks. Also, I've checked that none of the world's files are readonly at the filesystem level. jonadab: Hmm, there's a map.sqlite-journal file, maybe that is relevant somehow? FriendlyPerson[m: "Hmm, there's a map.sqlite-..." <- That's interesting a journaling file but nothing gotten locked. I wonder if it a transaction was "lost" during the process that the world had no idea "yet". jonadab: Lost transactions are entirely possible. jonadab: There were probably chunks loading or even generating when the power blinked. jonadab: I was using fast+fly specifically to generate map area, in order to be able to get a map of the area around spawn. FriendlyPerson[m: Indeed that's what PROBABLY happened then. jonadab: So what do I _do_ about it? jonadab: Also, why does minetestmapper care about the DB being readonly? Isn't it just reading anyway? jonadab: I would expect minetestserver to care about that, more than minetestmapper. jonadab: Hmm, speaking of that, I should check minetestserver's stdeerr output for notes about it. jonadab: Yeah, minetestserver's stderr says *nothing* about this. erlehmann: is it possible for a liquid to fall? Warr1024: Should be, though I'm not sure how well builtin would handle it Swift110-mobile: hey all FriendlyPerson[m: "hey all" <- Hiya! erlehmann: is there an issue with contentdb? erlehmann: prob my network ig Xanabella: [02:26:48] is it possible for a liquid to fall? <--- over SelfTimer/ABM check if the Node under the Source was not a Source, remove Source and place it in the under on erlehmann: Xanabella, i already figured out that dynamic liquid mod does this erlehmann: but it is … so slow Xanabella: you not figured out here and ContentDB/Ingame work good/fast for me FriendlyPerson[m: erlehmann: It's just loaded quick and fine for me. Are you still having issues? erlehmann: FriendlyPerson[m, try to install the mod dynamic liquid erlehmann: does it work erlehmann: for me it does not FriendlyPerson[m: erlehmann: Which way are you trying? In game or on the website? Or is it both? erlehmann: both does not work erlehmann: i mean erlehmann: ingame erlehmann: and i can not download the file from the error message FriendlyPerson[m: Let me try on the site. FriendlyPerson[m: I got the zip just fine on the site so erlehmann could you please try that instead? It could be that it's too large on the game, the game is not caching it properly, etc. erlehmann: ok turns out erlehmann: the /tmp/ filesystem erlehmann: had too many files erlehmann: the error message is not entirely wrong erlehmann: but if there is still space left, it is kinda weird FriendlyPerson[m: erlehmann: I hate how some unoptimized processes just eat the world there. Makes partitioning home systems a Pain in the Rear. On my next OS load I gonna screw it. erlehmann: well this is better than the alternativel erlehmann: i mean erlehmann: my /tmp was legit trashed erlehmann: i did it myself FriendlyPerson[m: It's okay it's no worries. ❤️ Swift110-mobile: Hey all independent56: Inside the car on a boat almost ready to depart. independent56: Then we have a 10 hour drive to the medeteranian fatalerror420: there is fatalerror420: a house fatalerror420: in new orle- alguien: rnd? no rnd? IvanGorinich: guys ping mtroleplay.ga IvanGorinich: is it works? sfan5: doesn't seem to work sfan5: if you have a minetest server running you can also check using MinetestBot's command sfan5: like so sfan5: !up mtroleplay.ga MinetestBot: mtroleplay.ga:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Kimapr: afaik his server uses a test miredo server (teredo) Kimapr: that probably doesn't route to normal internet i think? IvanGorinich: it works! it test it with other miredos IvanGorinich: but i think it not fully works IvanGorinich: as i want GNUHacker: hi, how can I copy a node meta in another node? Warr1024: minetest.get_meta(target):from_table(minetest.get_meta(source):to_table()) GNUHacker: oh thanks GNUHacker: we can teleport an entity with entity:set_pos(pos) GNUHacker: is possible teleport nodes? GNUHacker: same like node:set_pos()? sofar: you can't teleport nodes. You can only create a node identical to another one in a new location, and then destroy the old node Elon_Satoshi: Hello! What's the closest thing Minetest has to Computercraft for Minecraft? Elon_Satoshi: I know there's lua controllers for mesecons. And then there's at least two turtle mods specing: Elon_Satoshi: client side mods :P specing: There's basic_robot for programmable robots (I think?) specing: some servers in the list have it GNUHacker: elon_satoshi im working in a Minecraft's OpenComputers port to Minetest independent56: I'm seasick because i got used to the 33 hour journey, so now i swing as i stand. Warr1024: You mean landsick now? independent56: Yes independent56: I had sensory overload as well. The seaside town is swarming with people Warr1024: That's pretty harsh y5nw: I remember being on train for over a day (-ish) when I went to see my grandparents. That was a few years ago though, before HSR lines were in operation Elon_Satoshi: GNUHacker: That's awesome! Elon_Satoshi: Oh hi warr Warr1024: howdy Warr1024: haven't seen you around for a while, elon Elon_Satoshi: Yeah, it's been a while since I last played nodecore too Warr1024: whatcha been up to? Elon_Satoshi: Well, I recently have studied Automate The Boring Stuff with Python a bit Warr1024: Seems like the people who are most drawn to NC are also the same people who are most drawn to working on their own projects, so they don't just play for very long :-) Elon_Satoshi: Lol Elon_Satoshi: Maybe nodecore ls like brainfuck for minetest * Elon_Satoshi: nervously checks the rules for language independent56: Ha, i took the train from Bangor to Crewe, then a second train. Was fun. independent56: But luckly i have recovered. independent56: (from said sensory overload) independent56: We had a 10 hour drive from Bilbao to Barcelona independent56: Was horrible. Elon_Satoshi: Oh cool Warr1024: NodeCore's optics are actually pretty close to a turing tarpit Warr1024: I don't think it's quite as bad as a literal turing machine, but it is the smallest set of composable elements that's turing complete Elon_Satoshi: How is it not a turing tarpit? Warr1024: Basically I think to qualify as a proper tarpit you need to specifically go out of your way to some extent to make it such. independent56: every programming language is a tarpit for those who do not know it. Elon_Satoshi: Do you think it'd be possible to host a Minetest server over i2p? Warr1024: Heh, well, NodeCore's optics are only slightly more difficult than oldschool Minecraft redstone (i.e. dust and RST) so it feels a lot less tarry than it could be. Oldschool MC redstone wasn't even intended to be difficult... Warr1024: I think MT on I2P should work pretty well, if you can tolerate the latency. Warr1024: We've seen MT hosted on overlay networks like yggdrasil, which is a great option for people who have the compute resources to host but don't have enough control over their own networks to be able to open a port. Elon_Satoshi: Ooh yggdrasil GNUHacker: nice idea i2p server GNUHacker: I want a MT tor server but UDP Warr1024: MT could work over tor as well, though the fact that tor is stream-based rather than packet-based could lead to slight instability in connections leading to a complete connection drop, whereas I2P might be able to recover. Warr1024: yggdrasil though is also actually stream-based (even though they route datagrams over those streams, the underlying connections are TCP) so they're subject to the same risks, but in practice it seems pretty tolerable at least. Elon_Satoshi: Do you think it'd be possible to make a latency tolerant Minetest server? Elon_Satoshi: Maybe one where players can't interact real-time, but you can still dig and modify nodes Warr1024: Minetest is already latency-tolerant ... it's just a question of what penalties the game imposes on you. Warr1024: The client already does some stuff like prediction to mitigate latency problems. Elon_Satoshi: Hmm Elon_Satoshi: Then do you think a latency tolerant game would be possible? Warr1024: There are games like NC that don't depend on low latency for any vital functions, and while the experience can get a little crappy, it's still theoretically playable at like 1000 or even 2000ms RTT. Warr1024: There are other games like CTF where if your ping time is in the 100's then fuggedaboudit. Elon_Satoshi: Ah Warr1024: Individual mods or gameplay mechanics will probably vary in terms of latency tolerance, and how vital they are to the game overall will determine the overall experience. Adding or removing a specific mod would probably be enough to have a big impact on the overall picture. Elon_Satoshi: How well does Minetest work over low bandwidth? Warr1024: I'm pretty sure NodeCore vanilla is comfortable under like 100, but can be tolerated with mild discomfort up to like 1000, and is still theoretically playable, even if the experience goes to hell, once you exceed the client prediction threshold. Warr1024: Low bandwidth is actually an area I'm interested in for NC. I suspect it should be pretty good, for a game of its complexity ... but it's definitely a non-trivial game. Warr1024: For something like unmodded MTG, the whole game is pretty quiescent once you've loaded all the mapblocks around you, so it should work fine as long as you're patient enough. Elon_Satoshi: My internet is slow again, so I could be a good test subject Warr1024: For NodeCore, I suspect a lot may depend on what you have built, e.g. a build that has a lot of cycling optics may trigger mapblock re-sends multiple times a second, which could be cumbersome if those blocks don't compress well. Warr1024: I say give it a play, at least, and let me know what kind of results you get. One particular point of interest is the degree of difference between quiet wilderness scenes and being near peoples' factories. Warr1024: I just put on my todo list to dust off my analyzing proxy :-) Elon_Satoshi: What's the server address again? Elon_Satoshi: The server list is taking a long time to load Elon_Satoshi: Oh great, now warr1024 is taking a long time to load too ._. * Elon_Satoshi: attemps to search for the server address using lynx FriendlyPerson[m: Elon_Satoshi: You might need to close the game then reenter. I find if I can't get it going in a few secs then booting the game does the trick. FriendlyPerson[m: Otherwise I could be sitting there for 30 seconds and it's STILL Not done loading. Elon_Satoshi: Ah asdflkj_sh: why haven't irrlicht and minetest been ported to the web with emscriptem? Sublayer plank: well nobody has devoted the time to making that work I guess Sublayer plank: irrlicht has emscriptem support and webgl backend iirc Warr1024: NodeCore Community server is nodecore.mine.nu (port = default 30000) Warr1024: I was taking a long time to load because apparently the Discord/IRC bridge only translates a mention to a ping if it's at the beginning of a line I guess Warr1024: There's a lot that's not optimal about being here via the Discord bridge, but then, there'd be a lot that's not optimal about being here via my IRC client or the Matrix bridge too 🤷 FriendlyPerson[m: I thought bridging with Matrix is quite well since you retains some of the Discord features? At least over IRC bridging? Jonathon: bridging discord to matrix through irc loses everything irc doesnt support asdflkj_sh: why not join us in free and federated IRC-land? you can get a free bouncer from ircnow and get messages while you're disconnected, use thelounge if you want auto image previews, is there anything else you'd miss? Warr1024: My main issue is actually getting notifications through 3 different apps when somebody says my name. That tends to incline me toward using only the platform that gives me the least choice in the matter, rather than the one that gives me the best experience otherwise. Warr1024: tbh this is one reason why I still have a very "Windows-esque" desktop configuration; I just tend to want everything to match across systems, and that tends to mean that the most flexible have to bend to the will of the least. Very Tragedy of the Commons in a way. Warr1024: So the ironic end-result is that you can /msg me on IRC because I'm actually on Libera, but I'm just not directly in any channels that are also bridged to Discord. FriendlyPerson[m: When I can't use the best of the best (Matrix) I use them concurrently. Discord themeing is just so poor compared to Matrix so I try to use it where I can. Even though Discord is opened lol. asdflkj_sh: I like weechat in tmux in dwm, it simply inverts the color of the dwm tag (virtual desktop but better) and tmux window when I'm pinged or pm'd, and I could get weechat-matrix and get pings from all ~20 protocols matrix bridges with (https://matrix.org/bridges/) if I wanted asdflkj_sh: (but I don't want, IRC is the one true chat) Warr1024: I used to do the irssi-on-tmux thing for a long time, but eventually it got too annoying to get an SMS telling me that somebody had pinged me and I needed to go find a terminal to SSH in to my session to respond. TheLounge helped somewhat, but it's just so damn inflexible configuration-wise compared to anything else I'm used to... Warr1024: Like, if I could just say "don't send me a notification in this specific channel for messages from MTDiscord" then I'd be able to camp out in the MT IRC channels too. independent56: The autopisa is by far the best road infasructure i have ever seen. The UK motorways are kinda good, but nothing compared tothese. But they docome at a price... asdflkj_sh: do you not have termux or better on your phone? asdflkj_sh: independent56: wrong channel? or spambot? independent56: asdflkj_sh, Yes, i am spambot beepboop \j independent56: (i'm joking) * asdflkj_sh: reports independent56 to jess /j jess: nya independent56: I just like to post travel updates to my peers Warr1024: I've used termux and connectbot, the experience was just never good enough for when I needed to catch up on a convo and quickly respond. Warr1024: For SSH now, I actually don't use either, I just have a WeTTY instance behind HTTPS. Elon_Satoshi: Is it accurate to call IRC federated? Elon_Satoshi: Federation is when servers communicate with each other, right? But I can't log into Libera and send a message to someone on Rizon Warr1024: Federation tends to assume a loose association, i.e. each system "owns" some of the assets of the overall network and they share those. I think IRC networks tend to be more tight organizations than that, since channels themselves are split between servers, so the servers need to strongly agree on governance. Warr1024: XMPP or Matrix are better examples of federated services, since channels actually belong to each node and only limited agreement is actually necessary. I think "federated" tends to refer to systems that are self-governing in that way, rather than requiring external governance outside of the tech itself. Warr1024: You can just run your own Matrix or XMPP server, but you can't just run your own Libera IRC server, you have to comply with certain policy requirements and gain a lot of trust before you can be added to the network. asdflkj_sh: irc is less federated than matrix in theory, but with network bridges on irc and matrix.org dominance on matrix, it's comparable in practice Warr1024: Yeah, that's true, Matrix is theoretically more decentralized but in practice it's dominated by a few major players: matrix.org for infrastructure, Element for UI... FriendlyPerson[m: IF you start from Matrix you can run your own instrafacture up to the UI correct? FriendlyPerson[m: Then obviously the UI is up the clients right? Warr1024: You can run your own Matrix network, or your own IRC network, or your own XMPP network. In the case of Matrix or XMPP it would be easier to join it with an existing network than it would probably be to get IRC servers merged to an existing network. asdflkj_sh: IIUC existing matrix networks would join with yours by default (as soon as a user joined a room on one network from the other), whereas IRC servers these days only federate with whitelisted servers, usually run by the same org (though originally virtually all servers were on one global network, until efnet formed as Eris-Free, blacklisting a server named eris) asdflkj_sh: (IDK about XMPP) erlehmann: xmpp has a federation and lots of non-federated networks, like nintendo switch, eve online, fortnite, EA origins, league of legends … https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming.html asdflkj_sh: I wonder how many people use irc through Twitch and games like minetest erlehmann: asdflkj_sh, twitch uses irc? erlehmann: i think everyone who does not want to build their own thing pretty much uses xmpp FriendlyPerson[m: erlehmann: What is it really? Like a IRC "core" software of some sort so you can do what you want an slap a name on it? specing: It's a standardised protocol with standardised extensions and reference implementations available erlehmann: yeah think like http but for chat erlehmann: FriendlyPerson[m a lot of newer stuff like matrix really only has one well-tested implementation specing: *XML erlehmann: ? specing: not html specing: err, not http specing: whatever erlehmann: FriendlyPerson[m just read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP specing: yes, matrix is held hostage to that pile of javascript called Element specing: But still it's the best thing we have to combat discord erlehmann: specing the matrix specification contains grammars not matching the examples and examples not matching the prose. erlehmann: and when people point out that synapse works differently than the spec, the answer is more often than not “oh, the spec is actually wrong” erlehmann: it reminds me of microsofts office open xml, the “open standard” that, to comply with, means you just do what excel does or something specing: erlehmann: If I can reap the benefits without being exposed to its downsides, then yay for me erlehmann: specing the only thing that worked worse for me than matrix was trying to sign up to discord. erlehmann: like, the actual signup website lagged my computer so hard i did not do it erlehmann: that's an *impressive* achievement, even for a contemporary website FriendlyPerson[m: "FriendlyPerson just read here..." <- Thanks you very much and I still appreciated you trying specing too. After all it's your thoughts that counts. ❤️ specing: erlehmann: heh specing: erlehmann: my browser freezes for 10s each time I start typing in Element specing: (I use a different, native client now) maximed: I read I can submit patches by e-mail or via IRC. Where can I find the e-mail address to send a patch to, or how can I se maximed: submit a patch via IRC maximed: ? sfan5: you can technically email c55 but I bet nobody has done this in years sfan5: you could also link the patch file on IRC if you find a dev who can take care of the rest maximed: ok, I thought there might be some kind of mailing list to send patches to sfan5: if at all possible however you should make a pull request on Github maximed: sfan5: I made a pull request: BuckarooBanzai: maximed: your PR is based on `5.0.1-dev` you might wanna rebase it on the current `master` maximed: BuckarooBanzai: '5.0.1-dev' is ahead of 'master'? maximed: I based the PR on the tag 5.4.1 actually BuckarooBanzai: strange, your git history seems to diverge on the `5.0.1-dev` commit sfan5: 5.4.1 is indeed ahead of master maximed: I rebased the patch on master alguien: does rnd come around? calcul0n__: alguien, you might find him on his server i guess (ROBOTS_SKYBLOCK_2.1) alguien: he's not there calcul0n__: maybe later then, he was often there when i was playing celeron55: i begin reading about guix and immediately thought "ok this is so much like nix, when is this going to mention nix" celeron55: then it finally did celeron55: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/packages/games.scm#n3544 celeron55: oh man celeron55: hands up, who likes scheme (or lisp) sfan5: *crickets* IvanGorinich: Hello IvanGorinich: I making RolePlay server IvanGorinich: Now it runs on my OrangePI IvanGorinich: but i havent static ip IvanGorinich: and have NAT with dynamic ip celeron55: it's impressive they're making essentially a nixos clone using scheme, but is it really necessary IvanGorinich: who can help me with ip or domain IvanGorinich: it would be nice if you can help celeron55: you need to pick and choose a dynamic dns service to use IvanGorinich: i make some system with Miredo and FreeDNS afraid celeron55: i'm not up with the times with those, the ones i used back in the day probably don't exist anymore IvanGorinich: bt its not work good celeron55: you'll have to describe your setup and problem more for someone to be able to help Sublayer plank: do you have CGNAT? IvanGorinich: CGNAT? IvanGorinich: you men NAT on provider host? Sublayer plank: everyone has NAT, but if you have CGNAT you can't host a minetest server since the ip address will be shared among several ISP customers celeron55: basically do you have control over the NAT or is your ISP doing it celeron55: technically that's more about port forwarding than dynamic ip but that should be the first question anyway IvanGorinich: No, I didnt have control on the NAT celeron55: then you need to get your ISP to not do it, some will do it for free, some for a cost, some won't do it at all IvanGorinich: and i think it shares with other customers IvanGorinich: I read on forum what with miredo and FreeDNS i can make DYNDNS with NAT and dynamic IP IvanGorinich: and i write this script https://notabug.org/IvanGorinich/IPingUS6 celeron55: ah oh miredo was that thing celeron55: i don't know if that's the best solution FriendlyPerson[m: And if you can't get your ISP to cooperate (or it's rather costly to do so) you'll need get hosted in a DC. Typically this is done with a VPS. Although if you looking for a more "run and go server" there's a few options for that too. I heard Edgy does this and i just started offering this a few weeks ago too. On the forums to help reduce resources' wastes on my end and of course the cost of running my Minetest server too. celeron55: there's probably something more intended for this celeron55: there are services for hosting yourself getting a public IP via a VPN tunnel FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: You might as well just go with a VPS right? celeron55: well depends celeron55: with VPS if you need lots of performance or disk space it costs more celeron55: if you already have a suitable machine at home you might want to just get the IP in way or another celeron55: also, nothing is more fun as a hobby than to have a physical server to tinker with BuckarooBanzai: or multiple as a cluster ;) IvanGorinich: can i use tcp for minetest? IvanGorinich: i find thing named "locltunnel" FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: That is true if the main goals of this being a large hobby project then I can see. celeron55: IvanGorinich: no, MT doesn't support tcp IvanGorinich: ok FriendlyPerson[m: IvanGorinich: You can't "pick" the protocol. It's UDP and that it. 🙂 celeron55: some day maybe MT will have nat punchthrough support http://www.mindcontrol.org/~hplus/nat-punch.html celeron55: but there's relatively little interest celeron55: any serious server will have a public ip and controllable firewall anyway FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: Precisely and you sorta needs to for a deployment sizing up more than several players or so. It's so much easier to hand off like half of the work to the "pros" (or more) and focus on the contents and/or system. There's also still colocation if you still fancy having hardware control (it's can be hard to find shared colo accesses but they do exists). independent56: I am on a boring ferry from portsmouth to Bilbao. Holiday. FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: That does sucks indeed. When the transit is not fun on the way/from holiday/vacating. That why I don't like flying. It's Pain the the Rear and not usually that fun. FriendlyPerson[m: All they really do is take you point A and B and even though they are the most efficient it can still take hours.... independent56: Hmm I am on the Cap Finistre And it is a 33 hour transit. But this is the most comfortable leg. Then i have driving to Catalonia (and the northwest of England) FriendlyPerson[m: Indeed I see ya. sfan5: how come you can just have holiday overseas with corona and all that independent56: Mum had to buy an expensive test for us all. And we tested negative independent56: It's also the EU (despite us having left) independent56: us = UK independent56: http://56i.duckdns.org/Packing.pdf The list i have brought (It is mainly formum tocheck that i m not packing too much. FriendlyPerson[m: If I had to do that, barring emergencies I wouldn't just waited it out or be allowed under vaccination and/or etc. Not worth it to me to blow tons of money for tests when that can be used where you might wanna spend it instead. independent56: Ha, they (the ticket guys) explecitly asked "are you vaccinated?", to which mum says "no", so we had to show our test documents. FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: Why didn't you guys question that option?? independent56: Mum refuses to get the vaccine because it is too "rushed". However, all other vaccinations are fine by her. independent56: wdym? FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: Well it wasn't, she need to understand it gone though the same batteries of tests as those "other ones". It just gotten a ton and half resources to do it faster. But none of the processes were "skipped, rushed" or otherwise unaccounted for. independent56: Try making her change her opinion. She won't, FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: That's understand but I appreciate you trying. ❤️ independent56: Meh, in a 4 years (5, but my birthday is literally next week), i will be 18, and will have extended privalages. independent56: The right to free vaccination included celeron55: well, at least the disease isn't that bad for people your age celeron55: i don't know about the mum though, a bit on the risky side of things i'd say FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: Indeed so you can get it yourself then. independent56: Still, i am the only person wearing a mask consistently on the ship. FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: The main thing it's the spread that's the concerns. Not so much of you becoming sick at all. Just as long as you kept away from becoming hospitalized the vaccine had done it's job. celeron55: personally, i took the vaccine because statistic started showing it probably will help me not die celeron55: but of course it has many effects on society FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: Exactly the main goals to keep you well "enough" so you are able to remain a productive citizen for the MOST part. So while you might still get flu like ill effects at least your not strapped to a hospital bed. :) rubenwardy: I'd rather a tested vaccine and a bat disease rubenwardy: *than a rubenwardy: God I hate mailing listw sfan5: do you have your keyboard too sfan5: or who is making all those typos rubenwardy: Not sure if guix has dropped my comment or it's just under review sfan5: hmm I made one myself, this ruins my statement rubenwardy: I'm on mobile IvanGorinich: how i can shutdown minetest server FriendlyPerson[m: IvanGorinich: it's literally /shutdown IvanGorinich: in game? FriendlyPerson[m: IvanGorinich: If you appended the --terminal at the startup you may do it in the terminal too. sfan5: if you have it running in your terminal session press control + C IvanGorinich: how i can make autostart of minetest server IvanGorinich: when i turn on host and when game is down FriendlyPerson[m: sfan5: in my experiences terminating it takes forever. That why I went as far as to customize the Pterodactyl egg and push a PR for it for Parkercvp. It was so annoying. independent56: Use cron to do minetest on schedule sfan5: cron is a bad idea, consult your OS documentation for how to set up services sfan5: it's probably systemd IvanGorinich: now i have startup service IvanGorinich: but minetest make service named "minetest-server.service" IvanGorinich: what is it? FriendlyPerson[m: sfan5: They probably means "restart server every day at 4AM". A service will get it going yes but I don't think you can tell a service to restart itself without a scheduler. sfan5: FriendlyPerson[m: true, could use cron and a service for that sfan5: IvanGorinich: Minetest doesn't ship with any services but your distribution might (debian?) FriendlyPerson[m: sfan5: Exactly, deploy the service then cron for restarting said service. 👍️ IvanGorinich: yes IvanGorinich: armbian independent56: Does this mean that i cannot do say, visit chinese firewall websites? "You must not use the Service to engage in any activity which constitutes or is capable of constituting a criminal offence, either in the United Kingdom, in France or in any state throughout the world." independent56: And will i be keehauled for violating this? independent56: omg, there is censorship of content which "contain obscene, profane or abusive language or material". Please don't swear here, you may break the rules XD independent56: i sent a complaint email, but it may not be a good idea - "The Service is intended for consumer use only. The WiFi access may not be used in a manner that damages Brittany Ferries's reputation or goodwill. We have all rights to sue in defamation for the reputation." Warr1024: Where the hell are you even seeing this? independent56: On the internal network's T&C independent56: https://paste.debian.net/1206682/ FriendlyPerson[m: I mean ya they don't want you suck out all of the throughput and/or their bandwidth. After all they aren't your personal Data Center. independent56: Maybe i will get keelhauled for these IRC messages XD independent56: FriendlyPerson[m, That's fine. youtube is innacessible because of fortigate. But... ssh into my server (which has a lot of swear words) is not too heavy FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: Unless they are illegal in nature I doubt it. independent56: Yay! But i guess violating t&c is kinda illegal :-/ FriendlyPerson[m: and why would sending some messages do that? That what I don't understand... independent56: because "The Service is intended for consumer use only. The WiFi access may not be used in a manner that damages Brittany Ferries's reputation or goodwill. We have all rights to sue in defamation for the reputation." independent56: And trash, i have just revealed their name :-0 FriendlyPerson[m: Well these and similar messages are personal in nature. independent56: ha yeah independent56: I am going to make services for mapserver and xampp, to restart them on startup. FriendlyPerson[m: Wow some guy think he's cool because he's showing off Pi Server that can fit in 1U that have a NVMe and 64 ARM cores. I am sorry to burst that "dude" bubble but 64 ARM cores' 1Us aren't "news". specing: but its cool as a practice cluster for supercomputer users, I guess specing: wait, how many pis is that, 8? specing: 16? 64? * FriendlyPerson[m: uploaded an image: (1508KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/PhoTrhmsQHdqllmhRCQtswXM/Screenshot%20from%202021-08-05%2010-59-32.png > FriendlyPerson[m: I thought it was just another 1U design. FriendlyPerson[m: Which itself isn't news for the compute. rubenwardy: Violating a t&c is more like a breach of contract than actually illegal. It's a civil matter Warr1024: ...depending on where you live independent56: Tip: bring an extension cord so you have more sockets and less adapters. sfan5: tip: don't read the manual of the adapters either because it probably tells you not to plug in an extension cord sfan5: (not because it's actually a bad idea but rather so they can point at the manual and shed responsibility if anything ever happens) independent56: Ha... airplane manual "do not use" means that it is wholly the company's fault for a crash FriendlyPerson[m: sfan5: It's probably for safely concerns. Extension cords are TERRIBLE due the fact most if any don't comes with breakers. So if you have a 15AMP circuit and a cord is just a few AMPs capable you can start yourself a fire. What's worst that the US electric code don't even requires 20AMP circuits to be distinct. So two outlets in a room could be 20AMP circuits even if they "looks like" 15AMP ones. independent56: all british plugs have fuses if that helps specing: 220V 25A european master race independent56: can "ExecStart" have the argument in quotes for a command to execute? specing: our lights alone are fused for 16A... though not sure what kind of room lighting one could have that consumes 3.5 kW independent56: 1 K Halogen circuit? FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: It won't, it's better but it will not prevent a cord from melting and upflaring if it exceeds what it's can accept. specing: independent56: maybe if you are growing pot lmao independent56: We have a lot of pot in our house... we boil eggs in them Xd independent56: And spaghetti specing: pot = marijuana and other stuff FriendlyPerson[m: specing: Your not terribly off gaurd either. Pot is intensive with it's lighting requirements that isn't even funny. independent56: I know, i was making a horrible joke sfan5: the extension cords I have here say "maximum 3500W" on them, I don't even know how much the infrastructure here provides so that doesn't help me in any way specing: FriendlyPerson[m: I don't think so. I think it's just that plants grow based on how much light they have and more light = faster growth independent56: I swear, some personell is trying to sink the ship by washing the walls with water. celeron55: < FriendlyPerson[m> sfan5: It's probably for safely concerns. Extension cords are TERRIBLE due the fact most if any don't comes with breakers. So if you have a 15AMP circuit and a cord is just a few AMPs capable <- this is a bad design not in the extension cord but in the whole system. Look at how germany and for example finland (where i am) does it. Every outlet is 10A or 16A, and every extension celeron55: cord is 16A. Can't go wrong sfan5: !c 3500/220 MinetestBot: 15.909090909090908 sfan5: looks like I'm safe if I trust what c55 says independent56: specing, yes, the plants are sped up by light... until a limiting factor (like heat or minerals) stops it from having any effect celeron55: you literally can't buy something from a shop that will cause any risk when everything is rated for the full 16A that simultaneously is the most a socket is fused for independent56: (trust me, i took triple science GCSE celeron55: in these countries, that is celeron55: the UK, the US and probably australia and some others are quite the wild west when it comes to electricity sfan5: (and many other things...) celeron55: not even mentioning developing countries FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: Forgive me if I am being terrible but would the 10A circuit simply blows if it attempted to be overloaded so it's stopped at the breaker side instead? celeron55: if the fuse is rated for less than what you have connected after it (like the extension cord), the fuse will blow before anythin bad happens celeron55: but if the fuse is rated for more, then the thing after the fuse will blow... like the extension cord celeron55: hint: you don't want your extension cord to blow up FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: interesting I didn't know that why it needs so much light, it's because it's "eats it so fast" if you let it. independent56: Eh, our plugs are the safest celeron55: the UK plugs are fine when they are correctly designed and fused, but when you buy misdesigned stuff from china, it's all over the place and dangerous FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: Correct that why I wasn't hugely concerned. Even if you put 16A cord to a 10A circuit the circuit's fuse will blow in time right? independent56: The more light, the more of other things being consumed until it is unable to do that. And that is how a limiting factor works. Warr1024: UK plugs are safer electrically but more dangerous at night in the dark if not put away properly if you walk around your house barefoot celeron55: :D independent56: haha independent56: 100% FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: That's not any grids faults that's the equipment. Always buy electrical equipment that you can trust. Such as PSUes, cords, UPSes, etc etc etc. FriendlyPerson[m: Better pay 50 bucks for a decent PSU than that 20 bucks Ebay one that nobody knows the brand name of. FriendlyPerson[m: (also to be clear, it's OKAY to buy a REPUTABLE used unit. Just be sure you trust the seller and that's actually reputable and RELIABLE PSU brand) rubenwardy: FFS, the comment I sent as an email to the guix mailing list has turned out as an attachment, rather than a comment 🙄 FriendlyPerson[m: rubenwardy: That is really weird indeed. I am sorry that this happened to you. I wonder if it the email client your using or something? rubenwardy: Emails sent fine to other email inboxes, it'll be the mailing list software sfan5: perhaps it wasn't a plaintext email FriendlyPerson[m: rubenwardy: I see that make sense. Still doesn't make sense that the software did it on your comment. Hope they realize this so they can fix this component of their software. rubenwardy: Probably was an html email, as that's what they default to rubenwardy: They should still accept that and just .text() on the email FriendlyPerson[m: rubenwardy: Most definity indeed. erlehmann: personally, i took the vaccine because statistic started showing it probably will help me not die erlehmann: yes it is pretty obvious independent56: i have been alchaol free for under 15 years (even though it may seem so from the spelling) independent56: "Children should not drive following consuming Kwells Kids. They should not be unnatended or be allowed to drink alcohol" independent56: Almost word-for-word celeron55: guys go get more people on the forum celeron55: the new server is getting bored celeron55: too little load Pexin: they're all waiting for 5.5.0final Pexin: :] celeron55: well actually, it's peaking at about 40% cpu use, out of a maximum of 200% (2 cores), so, about 5x users compared to current would be fine celeron55: more than that and i'm going to have to move it again FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: It will happens naturally. People is still gonna assume the forums is too laggy until they experiences it on the new machine. Hopefully activity will starts picking up now that we are able to "proof" that the forum will take the loads. Then more and more people will come thereafter. independent56: yai independent56: Now the only problem is the horrible ferry interent FriendlyPerson[m: "more than that and i'm going..." <- And if this worries you, there are a few hosts that let you put a "root volume", so you can just "change" VM plans on the fly. Removing the needs to worry about migrating data wise. independent56: *interнет IvanGorinich: Hello FriendlyPerson[m: IvanGorinich: Hiya again! IvanGorinich: Now i from RevolutionIRC IvanGorinich: Now I in park IvanGorinich: With phone FriendlyPerson[m: Cool beans and got ya. IvanGorinich: Ping me IvanGorinich: Pls IvanGorinich: I teet notifications FriendlyPerson[m: IvanGorinich: independent56: By the way i walk on this ferry in the bay of biscay, i look drunk independent56: It's the boat rolling. MinetestBot: Ilomiglio: Aug-03 10:22 UTC ...and os.execute is not possible due to sandboxing by default Ilomiglio: hi, it's still possible to modify stack_max using a mod instead of changing single values in the default mods? Ilomiglio: i'm using this code, but it doesn't seems to work on singleplayer test mode https://paste.rs/02W.lua * twoelk: uses vesselfinder to track the Cap Finistere heading south with some 19 knots Ilomiglio: even a test code prints 99 max stack for the table i set 999 twoelk: hm wind with 30kt from starboard looks like she's doing some rolling Warr1024: Ilomiglio: you need to use override_item to change an already-registered item, you can't just edit the table directly like that. Ilomiglio: so things changed from the 0.4 version when i used this way Ilomiglio: lemme see, maybe it's just a one lines now Ilomiglio: thank you Warr1024! It's a one liner now j45: i56: the limiting factors of photosynthesis are: light intensity, carbon dioxide concentration and temperature (i am in year 10 doing triple science with AQA exam board) Warr1024: yw j45: Well i finished year 10 FriendlyPerson[m: Interesting and congrats for you there j45. :) j45: Lol ty(i was just correcting i56 xD) twoelk: was quite astonished when I discovered grass (not the kind people smoke) was the youngest in the gang and used sophisticated c4 technoligies independent56: The ship is in the infamous bay of biscay. And it is wavy. the sea throws us and makes my walk unsteady. I cannot even go up to my cabin without fear of falling. Everything is swinging due to the constantly moving gravity. My walk is merely a drunken stumble. independent56: waves 2.8 m twoelk: once crossed the channel in heavy seas, was the first time I saw people actually having green faces - I was thoroughly enjoying myself though independent56: haha what was the height? independent56: literally plastic bottles have fallen. i am swinging at 30 cm now twoelk: don't remember. They had us circle out at sea though as it wasn't possible to enter the port twoelk: friend of mine decided to go to the toilet - very bad idea - that place was floating - not from water though FriendlyPerson[m: Aww you are very welcome j45, sorry I was eating. independent56: twoelk, Yep, heavy rolling. i am walkind drunkenly. j5, Yeah, i coudlnt list the factors. But i am year 11 next year, and after that, the horryfing i-am-no-longer-told-what-to-do phase begins. independent56: And yeah, i am also doing triple science with AQA. independent56: at dinner, i had to use the kid's menu because there was french, ultra-posh food. utterly inedible. FriendlyPerson[m: independent56: Gotta love that time at AppleBees when I had to try their stupid Kraft Mac and Cheese. EVEN THAT tasted like utter garbage. j45: i56: did you also just finish year 10 then? j45: Btw we have been sending stuff off topic to this channel for a few hours, maybe move to #minetest-hub-irc (minetest-hub in IRC i think) FriendlyPerson[m: Isn't the IRC's hub reserved for reputation holding persons in the Minetest community at large? Like major contributors and such? (at least that what I thought I read on the wiki?) twoelk: somewhat restricted channel twoelk: and therefore mostly empty these days :( FriendlyPerson[m: That what I thought, that why I was confused. independent56: Nah, i think that we should visit #minetest-chat * twoelk: considers testing some lua mapgen maximed: sfan5: Be aware that the comment interface on is broken. Sending mails via an actual e-mail client should work though sfan5: ^ rubenwardy sfan5: (I didn't try to comment) maximed: oops, I meant rubenwardy maximed: the e-mail went though, so all is ok maximed: * through alguien: someone tell rnd the pattern can't be %.%.[^%.] or vargs don't work, it must be [^%.]%.%.[^%.] alguien: \, nice name... <- two dots not followed by a dot (but by a space), but preceeded by a dot luizsab: hi. I have two questions. luizsab: 1) Why technic chainsaw devastate trees around the target luizsab: 2) How to post custom HUD messages for the player FriendlyPerson[m: luizsab: That how chainsaws work, they do that in a radius I think 10 by default? FriendlyPerson[m: luizsab: I think there's a mod for this. What are you trying to do with that? luizsab: I would like to leave personalized messages to students when they enter and in certain places with instructions luizsab: but the mining laser also hits surrounding trees, it seems to make an angle at certain times. I was trying with him shooting over the tree FriendlyPerson[m: luizsab: AHH i am not sure how to do that in depth with HUDs sorry. FriendlyPerson[m: luizsab: That probably why they are disabled by default in he mod. luizsab: I understand luizsab: is there other way to take trees more fast? FriendlyPerson[m: "is there other way to take trees..." <- Bust out your Technic mod folder and under chainsaw.lua Line 14 you will comes across local max_saw_radius = 12 up the antie to higher numbers to do more clearing. You might wanna tweak other values above it so you don't runs out of EUs. luizsab: I understand, but it will continue to hit trees I want to conserve luizsab: it only cuts a single tree if I click on the first block, but sometimes it is buried, this is very laborious and also drains the tool's energy FriendlyPerson[m: luizsab: If you don't want to increase the range of the tool it might be your best option and you can simply increase the energy store and/or costs to make it lasts longer. As I think that's the fastest you can clear out a forest without cutting down too many trees at once. IF you want upgrade able saws I made a mod for this https://content.minetest.net/packages/Mineminer/technic_addons/ . Which offers two higher tiers of them which FriendlyPerson[m: holds more EU and are more efficient luizsab: FriendlyPerson[m thank you I'll see your mod FriendlyPerson[m: "FriendlyPerson thank you I'll..." <- Awww you are very welcome. If you requires help with anything just let me know. ❤️ luizsab: FriendlyPerson[m 💙 Sokomine: is the forum still in maintenance mode? FriendlyPerson[m: Sokomine: It's been out of it ever since this afternoon actually. 🙂 Sokomine: :-( hope it will soon be up again FriendlyPerson[m: Sokomine: It IS and it's BEEN since this afternoon lol. Jonathon: current IS up Sokomine: er. is the forum now up or not? FriendlyPerson[m: Sokomine: As I already said twice now... The forum been up since this afternoon. fatalerror420: shut up fatalerror420: stupid head FriendlyPerson[m: ?? Jonathon: :thonking: Jonathon: sokomine: if your that confused, why not visit it and find out for yourself? FriendlyPerson[m: I mean it's possible if they have difficulties processing information or even if they are not native. Which is why I reworded my responses every time and reassured them that that what I meant in the past. fatalerror420: STOOPID fatalerror420: Bashes head into window wsor4035: well then FriendlyPerson[m: Um not quite and I never understand why people think it's "cool" to be calling others "stupid" per say. fatalerror420: im not a hero, just a man with a dream Jonathon: please cease fatalerror420: ceased FriendlyPerson[m: Alrighty I am gonna head off, you all take care and have a good evening. 🙂 FamilyMiner: Hi, can someone tell me how to use /spawnentity to get mods_animal animals appear? FamilyMiner: I have tried mobs_animal:bunny as the EntityName FamilyMiner: the animals are spawning in wild as they should Warr1024: probably need to read the code (unless it's documented) to find out the names of entities FamilyMiner: I thought it was by this line: mobs:register_mob("mobs_animal:bunny") FamilyMiner: but I just get message "Cannot spawn an unknown entity" FamilyMiner: Ha! sorry, I just realized... mods != mobs :D Sven_vB: hi :) is there any way in MineTest 5.4.1 to toggle safe dig mode via a chat command? Sven_vB: I'd prefer to not have to leave the server for that, because the login takes several minutes FriendlyPerson[m: Sven_vB: 100's of MBs of media I am assuming? Because even when I was trying to remote media mine with 9 .oggs it was done in a minute or two. Warr1024: You should probably setup a test SP world to verify your settings or something. Client config stuff is generally either "baked in" or otherwise frozen at the time you enter a world, and there's no way to access those settings, let alone modify or apply them, without dropping back out to the menu. Sven_vB: FriendlyPerson[m, yes, it's the media section that takes forever Sven_vB: FriendlyPerson[m, however, even if it were just a second to reconnect, it would clear the chat history. there's just no excuse why toggling such a simple flag would require a reconnect. FriendlyPerson[m: Sven_vB: It's not that setting it's how the server is. Even changing a chat message (e.g. a mod) requires the server to be restarted. I am assuming since the minetest.conf is only read when the server is started. IvanGorinich: Hello i have dynamic Ipv6 with Miredo IvanGorinich: I connect DynDNS IvanGorinich: can i use only domain IvanGorinich: without bind_adress Warr1024: I think you can bind to an IPv6 wildcard address, similar to how binding to 0.0.0.0 in IPv4 means "all IPv4 addresses" sfan5: you shouldn't need to specify the bind_address Sven_vB: FriendlyPerson[m, safe dig mode is a client setting Sven_vB: FriendlyPerson[m, the server is not restarted. I'm playing in multiplayer. Sven_vB: would be hilarious if admins would have to restart the entire server just for one player toggling their dig mode. :D Warr1024: You might have to specify the bind address if MT only tries to bind a single socket, and the OS only allows one address family per socket. FriendlyPerson[m: Sven_vB: I honestly never heard of such of a client setting before. Forgive me for sounding "dumb" but what does it actually do? Auto sneaks you to prevent you falling so easily? Sven_vB: FriendlyPerson[m, it decides whether holding the primary mouse button will continue digging after the first successfully dug node, and whether holding the secondary mouse button will atempt to place more blocks after the first successfully placed block. Sven_vB: would be super nice if I could easily toggle whether my super fast pickaxe shall mine one block or lots FriendlyPerson[m: AH I see so it's prevent you digging too fast so you are diging more safely. That's makes sense. specing: Sven_vB: you can write a CSM that rate-limits it specing: you can do this with stock client Sven_vB: specing, I'd rather implement a toggle key for the existing option if I have to sfan5: IvanGorinich: if you specify ipv6_server = true in your config it should just work automatically IvanGorinich: i do IvanGorinich: but nothing sfan5: how are you testing it? erlehmann: sfan5 why does this PR also remove a comment? "// added in protocol version 14" erlehmann: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11511/files sfan5: nobody cares about that erlehmann: sfan5 why does your PR have „Drop it ingame, observe a warning but no crash“ here? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11511 sfan5: because that's one of the things it fixed? erlehmann: wait, what happens if you drop the item? erlehmann: it is very important that the item metadata gets preserved as long as it is only dropped and picked up erlehmann: (otherwise shulkers will break) Krock: which metadata are you talking about? erlehmann: staticdata erlehmann: i have an example for you Krock: do you know right that such large packets couldn't be sent in first place? erlehmann: these objects exist in mineclone2, mineclonia and mineclone5 erlehmann: https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/pulls/132 erlehmann: they are fine as long as … oh erlehmann: well erlehmann: i think they are fine as long as their metadata is not touched because the PR by fleckenstein that avoids bookbanning is active on clamity Krock: btw staticdata != metadata erlehmann: shulkers are portable chests. it is very easy to get over the 64kb (or so) threshold sfan5: erlehmann: the server crashes because the wield item in object properties also has a limit of 64k erlehmann: so i just want to make sure that this patch does not break mineclone2 / mineclone5 / mineclonia and whoever else uses shulkers sfan5: the entity will not be modified sfan5: it just may not appear correctly on the client erlehmann: sfan5 so it is possible to drop it and pick it up even with the patch? sfan5: yes erlehmann: good, thank you erlehmann: i would suggest to add something like the “getwrittenbook” command here to devtest https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/pulls/132/files erlehmann: > “/getwrittenbook 65323” creates an item that creates the largest possible serializable written book item entity when dropped. Krock: don't don't do that Krock: *just don't erlehmann: > “/getwrittenbook 65324” creates an item that creates the smallest possible non-serializable written book item entity when dropped. erlehmann: Krock, what do you mean? erlehmann: don't do what? Krock: keep data within reasonable limits erlehmann: have you used shulkers? Krock: I never used MineClone2, so I don't think so erlehmann: there is a shulker mod on contentdb i think erlehmann: they are very important for the gameplay Krock: however the wrench from technic also might contain tons of metadata, but that's item metadata erlehmann: now the problem is, an object can legitimately have a few kb of metadata. think of a book, or a heavily enchanted item. erlehmann: the problematic interaction has two parts Krock: then compress it better erlehmann: first, you have shulkers – the portable chests Krock: anything else requires a protocol change erlehmann: second, you can drop those and item entities are created erlehmann: uh no it works right now erlehmann: the only thing that did not work was the crash erlehmann: maybe i am missing something Krock: the crash did not work, so no crash happened? Warr1024: You'll probably have to limit the capacity of those things, or you'll have to store the data in a separate channel when it overflows erlehmann: oh the interesting thing is that those things are heavily used but so damn worth it that apparently since they were introduced it only rarely happened that anyone dropped them and walked away erlehmann: the capacity of them is limited Krock: deflate compression might solve that sfan5: not reliably sfan5: image putting books inside sfan5: imagine* erlehmann: yeah, someone could write a book with random characters. that book is like, what, 4kb or so. typical book size. FriendlyPerson[m: I think they are concerned that if this patch goes live it will break those games. While MCx shouldn't be the king of everything it's probably best to at least understand the implications it MAY have on those games. If it can't be easily adjusted at least make it clear on the patch that games that uses so much metadata (or whatever it is) MUST adapt accordingly. erlehmann: well as i understand sfan5 it will only lead to a warning and nothing will break erlehmann: to the contrary, the crash that i experienced (and fixed in mineclonia) will not occur erlehmann: because the serialization function does not bug out erlehmann: Krock Warr1024 mineclone2 did a lot of stupid things regarding resources, but shulkers are an essential gameplay concept. people make so-called “kits” with specific contents, dupe them and give them to other players. like: redstone kit. erlehmann: or someone wants to build a city, first thing they do is carry a lot of shulkers with building materials there. sfan5: should've used chest minecarts smh Warr1024: Yeah, NodeCore has Totes that are similar, but their capacity is limited so they're never close to serialization limits. erlehmann: ton clamity, i made a kit that contains banners with patterns. (banners are another item that can legitimately have metadata) Krock: or detached inventories :3 erlehmann: sfan5, chest minecarts do not exist as far as i know. sfan5: i thought MCL2 was a minecraft clone sfan5: how can that be Warr1024: If you can have an item that can hold up to the limit of metadata, then that item cannot also be stored inside another item that stores its items in metadata. erlehmann: sfan5 no one implemented it properly yet sfan5: granted making this work via detached inventories is a bit tricky but shouldn't be that hard erlehmann: i have a shulker full of shulkers full of obsidian hehe Warr1024: Storing overflow metadata in mod_storage or separate files is also not that hard erlehmann: that's like, 27 * 27 * 64 obsidian erlehmann: yes i thought about mod storage Warr1024: You can't allow nesting these infinitely without either running into an engine limit, or just bombing the engine. sfan5: @Warr1024 tracking item metadata stored separately is hard erlehmann: it was allowed to do it in minetest 5.3 as far as i know erlehmann: at least fleck claimed that Warr1024: I mean it's straightforward, it's just messy as hell. sfan5: how do you know when to delete an entry then? Warr1024: Whenever the world is deleted erlehmann: sounds like a memory leak sfan5: that does not satify my criteria for a proper implementation erlehmann: TO ME erlehmann: what sfan5 says erlehmann: Warr1024 do not worry, shulkers can not legally be nested anymore. erlehmann: but you can put items in them Warr1024: I didn't say it was possible to do properly erlehmann: and even if every item has like 2.5kb of metadata only (standard size for heavily enchanted stuff), then 27 items get you over the limit erlehmann: the enchantment stuff might get better with zlib/deflate erlehmann: but books exist sfan5: that kinda seems like a problem with enchantments to me Warr1024: Also all this obsession with having the highest standards of "proper" implementation is probably why we only ever have complete crap implementations instead of having moderately okay ones. As soon as someone thinks "I should make this not be a complete piece of shit" development gets stalled trying to make it actually GOOD. erlehmann: sfan5 oh, the enchantments mod was way worse before ryvnf fixed it! Krock: they might be serializing some date to JSON or lua tables to put into a meta data field erlehmann: an enchanted item could take up 21kb of space! Warr1024: You might just have to disallow items in the shulker that contain more than a certain total length of metadata. FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: Agreed I think they are worried about breaking more than it's worth. At least in ONE SITTING. sfan5: there's a difference between a non-ideal implementation and a hack erlehmann: > As soon as someone thinks "I should make this not be a complete piece of shit" development gets stalled trying to make it actually GOOD. erlehmann: lol what Warr1024: Yeah, the difference between a non-ideal implementation and a hack is how long it takes you to say the name erlehmann: ok then tell me something erlehmann: fleckenstein has delivered a thing that deals with item lag (bookbanning) erlehmann: where you throw a bunch of books at a player to lag them erlehmann: that is not merged in minetest, why erlehmann: is it because it breaks client stacking prediction? Warr1024: Basically when you have something that's bad, you should try to move the needle toward good. If you can't make it as far as you wanted to, that doesn't mean you should just leave it as bad. Krock: add text limits to your books. easy. erlehmann: this one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11014 sfan5: erlehmann: it doesn't break that FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: Exactly aim for 100% but when that's not possible do what's practical. erlehmann: sfan5, oh then i misunderstood Krock: FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord is a bot or relay server. check the name afterwards erlehmann: > TechDudie approved these changes Apr 23, 2021 erlehmann: what else needs to happen? erlehmann: as far as i know, that patch runs on clamity erlehmann: but sfan5: you quoted a random person approving the changes. sfan5: anyone can do that erlehmann: ah ok erlehmann: so anyone can approve stuff lol erlehmann: sfan5 what is your gripe with the thing? is it still that you think it is unreasonable to store this stuff? erlehmann: i think in any case it is a good optimization FriendlyPerson[m: Krock: Understood thanks for reassuring me of that but I was trying to quote the reply. Is there's a better way to do that? Krock: FriendlyPerson[m: copypaste the name sfan5: FriendlyPerson[m: ah, must be matrix doing that automatically then? sfan5: erlehmann: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11014#issuecomment-791531973 FriendlyPerson[m: sfan5: Yes it does that automatically. Warr1024: Don't we already have private vs. public fields on node meta? sfan5: apart from discussion about the implementation having the client announce that it's saving the map is a misfeature IMO FriendlyPerson[m: So I can either quote the reply or I can't. There's no "quote this person as" sfan5: yes, this would be item meta Warr1024: Oh, I see, Fleck already discussed that in one comment Warr1024: saying that it would be better to make these private by default instead of public ... unfortunately, there was an issue to do the same for node meta but it got shot down Warr1024: I ended up doing it at the Game level Warr1024: I suppose if we had set_private in item meta then it could similarly be done at the game/mod level erlehmann: sfan5, my browser (elinks) says “The requested fragment "#issuecomment-791531973" doesn't exist.” sfan5: it's inside the collapsed comments erlehmann: oh erlehmann: damn github sfan5: gitlab runs on even more javascript stuff, be glad we aren't using that erlehmann: is it possible to link directly to it? erlehmann: i mean to the comment erlehmann: i try chromium sfan5: expanding comments and then pressing return inside the address bar should bring it up sfan5: anyway it's my comment from 5th Mar Warr1024: Map-saving concerns are certainly scope-creep. The server should be allowed to choose not to send data to the client for the common use-case of the client simply playing the game and wanting non-shitty behavior. erlehmann: such UX ._. erlehmann: ok thx erlehmann: hiding comments is really an antifeature erlehmann: “common use case” lol erlehmann: i am an amateur historian erlehmann: i collect cursed items and impossible builds in world downloads Warr1024: Allowing the server to hide selected meta fields from the client seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to live at the MetaRef level, not just at the NodeMetaRef level. erlehmann: wow, it is possible to click “more items” on github before the js has fully evaluated everything and then it does not work. so everyone, do not click as soon as the page loads, wait a few seconds. erlehmann: sfan5 ok i see your comment erlehmann: sfan5 but the thing you are proposing is an entirely different way of addressing the problem that requires mod authors to do stuff erlehmann: whereas fleckensteins solution requires mod authors do to basically nothing erlehmann: the engine just handles it Warr1024: Requiring mod authors to do stuff is not at all unreasonable. Mod authors already have to do stuff to be mod authors. Warr1024: Requiring people to do stuff to keep things the same is more unreasonable than requiring them to do stuff to take advantage of a new feature. erlehmann: well i work in IT security and from experience i think it is wishful thinking that every poser with a keyboard will do the work to check if their items are too big. Warr1024: I would not be opposed to a compromise of having some fields marked private by default and using the set_private API just to handle exceptions to those rules ... but historically PRs that leave default behavior intact have a better chance of actually passing. erlehmann: i mean, a lot of people who claim to be professional developers can't make hello world binaries that fit on a floppy erlehmann: or web pages that can be downloaded over 3g lol Warr1024: It's not the engine's job to completely prevent broken mods, only to provide the tools necessary for sufficiently competent mod authors to be able to solve the problem in at least SOME way. erlehmann: the thing is, in this case, fleckenstein is one of the posers with the keyboard erlehmann: but i think he has a point Warr1024: Yeah, too bad this isn't an open source community where anyone could just send a PR to ... oh wait... :-| Warr1024: Personally I would be okay with marking a shitton of stuff private by default and require it to be manually marked public ... but based on MT's past history I don't expect that to fly. erlehmann: the thing is, i agree that mineclone2 approaches are ridiculous often erlehmann: and i disagree with fleck about it being a super important game or something erlehmann: it is just one of many erlehmann: but it is one that manages to be so broken at times that it shows how badly designed some engine things are (because it lets mods do the things that mineclone2 does) Warr1024: I honestly haven't decided whether having a relatively good clone of MC in the MT ecosystem is actually more beneficial or harmful yet, it's clearly some mix of both. erlehmann: Warr1024 i have had a lot of fun with it erlehmann: best thing, i don't need to think about game balancing when implementing stuff, unless minecraft is obviously wrong FriendlyPerson[m: erlehmann: YEA I am not gonna say he's the king of everything but to be fair what games do we have that people would want to make servers for right? I can count maybe the top 5 would probably be competent on a server. MCx games, NodeCore variants and Dreambuilder. There's possibly a few others but that's seems to the highest polished games I can see. erlehmann: (like with snow layer / silk touch interaction – silk touch does not work on snow layers in minecraft because they erroneously closed the bug) Warr1024: I've sort of given up on expecting the engine to do the right things out of the box. Mostly I just want it to support doing the right things at all, and leave whether they're done right or not to the community. Footgun, cold dead hands, etc, apparently. erlehmann: my approach right now in mineclonia is also “mineclone2 does probably the first thing that come to mind and it is probably not the best thing and the engine will find some way to handle it in most cases and crash if i approach the boundaries” Warr1024: We don't need a TON of games. Really just a few good ones. Warr1024: Having an MC clone makes it easier for MC players to make the jump to MT ... but on the flip side, it also keeps them sort of stuck in the MC rut. erlehmann: well that is an issue entirely orthogonal to “should the engine try to do the right thing because mod authors don't read the rubenwardy book” erlehmann: i mean, think of stuff like a network packet being sent as a side effect, even if some value did not actually change Warr1024: I mean a LITTLE idiot-proofing is not a bad thing, I just wouldn't go too far down that rabbit-hole after I've seen the speed at which they patch the idiots to bypass said idiot-proofing. erlehmann: in my opinion, the engine could at least output a warning whenever a packet is sent that is not necessary FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: Yes and no, there still not a lot of choices when it comes to games. As I said there's maybe 5 games that are worth actually playing. As in "I installs it, turns on and it's plays". erlehmann: like, mineclonia sends over 50 packets/s less than mineclone2 and mineclone5 sfan5: erlehmann: if it could output a warning it could also just not send that packet Warr1024: There's some stuff that seems really obvious that the engine could do, like not sending duplicate entity properties ... but I also find that solving it in Lua actually works out better anyway. erlehmann: sfan5 the problem with not sending that packet without a warning is that the globalstep or whatever that uselessly updates the stuff is then not detected erlehmann: the problem with “solving it in lua” is the bookkeeping erlehmann: if you get it wrong … well, crash, corruption, or, ideally, dupe :D Warr1024: Friendly: there are a few hidden gems farther down the list. A lot of the problem is that "top" stuff is mostly sorted by popularity, and especially popularity is measured by downloads rather than the experiences people have AFTER the downloads. Reviews and the CDB Featured list is helping with that, but there's still a lot of built up popularity effects that haven't dissipated yet. sfan5: erlehmann: great so we agree this should be solved in lua ;) sfan5: btw this should be easy to detect with a lua wrapper sfan5: engine doesn't have to do it Warr1024: It's also important to remember that not everyone is looking for the same kind of playing experience, and some of the more obscure games offer very different play styles. Box World 3D, for example, is basically a 3D Sokoban clone with no sandboxiness at all, plus it's a very SHORT game, so it's fun for a while and then you reach the end and (probably) uninstall it. FriendlyPerson[m: Isn't the GS akin to "ticks" in Minecraft? or I am missing something on why it's "stupid"? erlehmann: sfan5 the problem with the current approach is that people like fleck develop stuff that works on their machine erlehmann: because the engine is not limiting it Warr1024: I prefer to solve stuff in Lua in-situ, and if I find the problem is part of an underlying theme, I promote it up to the Game level, and then if I think it might be applicable beyond that, I'd migrate it into builtin, if it's clean enough. ABM Muxing, for example, could be a candidate for that, if it were only cleaner. erlehmann: FriendlyPerson[m, it is stupid to do a bunch of stuff in a globalstep that should be event-based. mineclone2 and mineclone5 for example, check each globalstep if the player has armor or not and then send a network packet to either show the armor bar or not. mineclonia has that fixed (by upgrading to a newer version of the wuzzy hudbars mod). Warr1024: It's not terrible to do background checks for things where there's a possibility of events being lost ... but every step is overkill, and actually sending updates every step even if there is no change is extra-bad. FriendlyPerson[m: erlehmann: Understood thanks for explaining that to me. It was just the context not the actual GS. I thought it was. erlehmann: FriendlyPerson[m, similarly, the sprint mod in mineclone2 and mineclone5 tells every player to adjust their field of view every tick. it just adjusts which value it sends, based on if the player is sprinting. this is, of course, really bad. and fixed in mineclonia! erlehmann: i think the engine should at least output a warning for sending dozens of packets with the same content each second erlehmann: i mean, dozens of warnings lol sfan5: erlehmann: if there was good documentation on what to look for and how to debug this it would be less an issue, but there is not erlehmann: then ppl would *probably* clear it up FriendlyPerson[m: Indeed warn then limits/removes. sfan5: the fewest modders know about the packet counter in --verbose sfan5: which it gives a pretty good idea what you're doing wrong in many casesd sfan5: -d sfan5: while* erlehmann: sfan5 i actually used that and it is in --info i think? Warr1024: I don't see a reason the engine should actually send the packets if they match the state that was already just sent. If I can keep track of past sends in lua then the engine should be able to do so too ... but then, if I can keep track of it myself, then I'll probably just do that and not care whether the engine does. sfan5: --trace also shows it if you mean that erlehmann: sfan5 oh i have a thing that could be in minetest utils/tools directory: https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/src/branch/master/tools/analyze-packet-spam erlehmann: # To collect such a log file of minetest running for 10 minutes, run: erlehmann: # timeout 600 minetest --info >log.txt 2>&1 >/dev/null erlehmann: # To get packet counts from that file, run: erlehmann: # ./analyze-packet-spam sounds like a job for CSM Warr1024: It'd be nice if we could also get an idea of the bandwidth cost of those packets rather than just the counts... erlehmann: specing, to you everything sounds like a job for a CSM lol erlehmann: Warr1024 true, but the problem with the packet amount is that any lost packet can lead to lag / desync etc. erlehmann: try playing on a high-bandwith connection with a few percent of packet loss Warr1024: For a while I used to just compare packet counts against MTG, but "do-nothing game does nothing" doesn't seem like a fair standard. erlehmann: lol erlehmann: try to compare against mineclonia. if you exceed it, you probably do something stupid. erlehmann: i doubt you will exceed it. the stupidity i have encountered is entirely located within mineclone2, mineclone5 and the weather mod all three games share. erlehmann: and by stupidity i mean the things i already described. specing: erlehmann: yeah erlehmann: simulate each raindrop etc. erlehmann: specing why don't you contribute to waspsalive then specing: need to rebase first specing: read its api and port my scripts Warr1024: Well, just shooting for "more packets than MTG but fewer than MC2" sounds like a decent sanity range, but I'd really like to have a narrower target :-D specing: i also want to make sscsm a reality Warr1024: even if SSCSM were extremely sandboxed and could only do things like manipulate HUDs, particles, and sounds, I could see getting a lot of use out of them. erlehmann: Warr1024 not fewer than mineclone2, fewer than mineclonia. erlehmann: mineclonia is mineclone2 with a lot of packet spam fixed erlehmann: (and other stuff ofc) erlehmann: if minetest makes server-sent client-side mods, i guaranteed you i will spend a *lot* of energy to make client-send server-side mods erlehmann: (very sad that the feature of client-sent server side mods got removed) specing: nah warr, I'd do SSCSMs on waspsaliva, with full access to the whole API specing: and a contentdb for them, so they'd be reviewed beforehand Pexin: erle: client-sent server side mods.. I cannot express how deeply I wish I could inject serverside code into web servers that try to force js for basic functionality.. :| (very different problem domain, I know. but I can fantasize) erlehmann: Pexin well, sometimes you can Pexin: "you want to force me to run your code on my side of http? well Fair's Fair!" Warr1024: At first you think "js is code! I shouldn't be running somebody else's CODE, that could cause security problems!" ... then they discover yet another bug in common JPEG libraries that allows RCE ... :-/ Warr1024: Turns out that the difference between code and data is mostly just something we made up and hackers don't abide by it. Pexin: js is _intended_ to be code Warr1024: On the flip side, the fact that JITted JS runs so close to your hardware that they can actually read stuff out through timing sidechannels is pretty bonkers. Pexin: outright security vulnerabilities aside, there are things "modern" js is deliberately allowed to do that I may not want it to Pexin: even something like android's halfassed permission system for the js engine would arguably help Warr1024: Effectively js does have a half-assed permission system in the browser, but it's sort of meta-half-assed because it's not implemented or enforced consistently across browsers, and may be meta-meta-half-assed because they decided to only make it cover very few things like location APIs and stuff. Warr1024: ...so, eighth-assed? Pexin: quantifiable ass Warr1024: tbh it's been bugging me for a long time: when you say half-assed, is the "assed" half the half you screwed up, or the half that you actually at least made an attempt at? Would quarter-assed be better or worse than half-assed? * Pexin: ponders erlehmann: Turns out that the difference between code and data is mostly just something we made up and hackers don't abide by it. erlehmann: no Warr1024 read about LANGSEC erlehmann: everything not context-free or regular or calc-regular is dangerous Ilomiglio: hi, i'm writing a mod for teleporting back the player if they trepass a threshold: https://paste.rs/kal.lua Ilomiglio: however, i can't get passed neither player obj neither its name Ilomiglio: i was disconnected ilomiglio: keeping disconnecting with hexchat, trying with webchat fatalerror420: Well whats your issue? ilomiglio: i get that player or name is nil ilomiglio: it's like player obj doesn't get passed to the function BuckarooBanzai: !tell ilomiglio you have to use `minetest.get_connected_players()` and iterate over the returned players periodically MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: yeah, yeah fatalerror420: Also you can use is_player fatalerror420: And use ipairs fatalerror420: _, player in pairs(get_objects_in_radius) blah blah if player:is_player then MinetestBot: ilomiglio: Aug-03 07:50 UTC you have to use `minetest.get_connected_players()` and iterate over the returned players periodically Ilomiglio: i found a difference between lua and luajit, in the former an integer division is performed via // (ex. 10 // 3 ) while luajit uses math.floor and math.ceil Ilomiglio: but i tried an os.execute cmd, and failed for some reason sfan5: you either get a lua 5.1 or luajit environment sfan5: integer division and the integer type are a 5.3 feature, that is never available sfan5: !tell Ilomiglio ...and os.execute is not possible due to sandboxing by default MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when Ilomiglio is around sfan5: maybe they'll come back twoelk: duh ......... just after I finished composing a lengthy post the forum goes into maintenance ...... hmm better save my text for reuse I guess celeron55: yep, i'm in a bit of a hurry, tomorrow it wouldn't have had a valid certificate anymore celeron55: trying to finish moving it to another host sfan5: the maintenance page still links to webchat.freenode.net btw celeron55: oops 8) Sublayer plank: oh my, there's a massive hidden archive of old minetest versions on 8dromeda.net? twoelk: so that evprevia is the hint-blueprint to a project? celeron55: that archive of old versions has been linked a couple of times on the forums celeron55: well, at least once. maybe the other times were on IRC celeron55: i will probably use this backup as the final data for moving the wikis also, so don't get carried away making edits now iisu: I just came to the forum to see the message. iisu: Congrats on the server change. Sublayer plank: will the forum page loading hopefully improve now on the new server? sfan5: it will iisu: I can already barely make coffee while it loads. You're gonna deprive us of caffeine. :P FriendlyPerson[m: Hiya been trying to find the correct IRC channel here on Matrix did I finally found it after referencing the wiki that it's on libera now? 🙂 sfan5: yep FriendlyPerson[m: Awesome thank you very much sfan5 for reassuring me of that. 🙂 Guest8533: Good morn FriendlyPerson[m: Guest8533: Aww thanks! Good morning to you too! :) FriendlyPerson[m: Interesting dropped by to say good morning then just quitted. * twoelk: takes a glance at the forums and notices the maintenance timeframe has changed Sublayer plank: huh? FriendlyPerson[m: > * <@twoelk:libera.chat> takes a glance at the forums and notices the maintenance timeframe has changed FriendlyPerson[m: What are you even talking about? I reloaded it and it's still state the time started and that it expected to PROBABLY ake 1 to 3 hours. Key word PROBABLY meaning it's not an "promised" time frame but merely an reference point. Sublayer plank: it has always said 1 to 3 hours ever since celeron55 edited it to specify that the forums are moving to another server celeron55: just a moment * twoelk: thought he remembered it was less when his first effort to save his post produced a maintenance page FriendlyPerson[m: > * <@twoelk:libera.chat> thought he remembered it was less when his first effort to save his post produced a maintenance page FriendlyPerson[m: It probably wasn't there or IF it was changed to a latter time frames then there were legit issues. Migrations can go wrong and fast especially if your moving from one network to another. Or other complicated migration tasks. * twoelk: is still holding that edited page in limbo to see if it executes correctly once mainenance is finished twoelk: not complaining just observing and drinking some coffee and doing work and coming back, hitting the refresh button, making more coffee and so forth celeron55: the forum is now online on the new machine twoelk: cool * twoelk: has another look at the evprevia twoelk: yay twoelk: hm, hit the submit button on the pre-mainenance edited page and it uploaded without complaining, didn't expect that to work so seamingless FriendlyPerson[m: "the forum is now online on the..." <- Awesome just noticed better responsiveness so hopefully the forums will be more stable for me. As I am mineminer there. Jonathon: your mineminer? interesting FriendlyPerson[m: Yup and nice to see the Discord bridged here too. Since I prefer Matrix interface better than theirs. FriendlyPerson[m: So I only use it for the one person and my VPS host. Jonathon: im the exact opposite, preferring discord interface to matrix Jonathon: that said, matrix's isnt that bad aside from spaces which are in the 1800s compared to discord FriendlyPerson[m: hehe that's interesting, I like Matrix (Element) since it's easier for me to read as a deaf and blind person. I feels like Discord is just not that friendly. FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: Watcha you mean? I feels like Discord is turning into a Social Media platform than a chat platform. Jonathon: interesting, how does reading online work when deaf and blind if you dont mind me asking? twoelk: ok, that got me interested. how does that work FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: Here is my post on that actually, would be easier to check that out than to wall the text here https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=397824#p397824 twoelk: some brail exposing monitory thingy? FriendlyPerson[m: twoelk: Read my last reply please. twoelk: just copied the link to browser FriendlyPerson[m: alrighty it should pull to the post in question. Jonathon: oh, so your not fully blind i take it? FriendlyPerson[m: Yes but I am still legally obviously Jonathon: ah ok, that makes sense FriendlyPerson[m: Aww thanks you for caring to be of understanding of me. ❤️ GNUHacker: hi #minetest GNUHacker: I want port some minecraft mods to minetest, maybe Ill begin with rustic mod idk FriendlyPerson[m: GNUHacker: Heya there. :) FriendlyPerson[m: GNUHacker: That's interesting I love how the Drawers mod gotten over to Minetest. It's helps out my spawn on my DeafBlind Minetest Gaming server. GNUHacker: mineclone is perfect mod base Jonathon: how about no twoelk: make sure to check out consider all assets licenses or make new ones media GNUHacker: some minecraft mods has been ported to minetest but to mtg, mineclone is WIP, but is a better mod base GNUHacker: many minecraft mods are Free Software with Free assets twoelk: many but not all specing: I'm against blindly 1:1 copying features from proprietary games. It reinforces the belief that libre gaming is nothing but copies/clones of "real games" twoelk: often the code is opensource while some textures are more restricted FriendlyPerson[m: GNUHacker: Yes but doesn't means you can take/"borrows" them. assests often have other licenses than the code base which ARE often MIT/GPL variants. GNUHacker: some free software mods examples: rustic, ice and fire, opencomputers FriendlyPerson[m: twoelk: Exactly FriendlyPerson[m: specing: Indeed even Drawers in this game is distintly difference from he Minecraft "version". And i likes it that way. 🙂 GNUHacker: opencomputer minecraft mod is a great mod to port, is free software under MIT license and have media under CC0 license, also have LUA code to manage the "openOS" computer system twoelk: reusing good ideas from other games is ok in my opinion but mileage of others may vary twoelk: I don't think though that every aspect of mc is worth copying FriendlyPerson[m: twoelk: Exactly * twoelk: wonders where is old efforts of porting some rockraider ideas to mt got lost twoelk: uhm his not is FriendlyPerson[m: Does anybody in here is able to help me understand if there a way to shutter this up " 2021-08-03 15:44:05: [Server] DBGamer takes mobs:hairball from chest FriendlyPerson[m: at (-836,20,819)". I know this is from the Pipeworks mod but the modder (I can't remember how to spell her name sorry) said there's nothing she can do about it as per knowledge. Aside from of course shutting ACTION entirely by upping the log sensitively. Since I still want to talk to my players and see them logs into the server. sfan5: if you're watching the log interactively you could do e.g. (assuming Linux): tail -f debug.txt | grep -v --line-buf '\[Server\] .* takes .* from chest at .*$' sfan5: that would simply not display such messages sfan5: or actually if you don't care abotu chest you could comment that code in MTG out entirely sfan5: about chests* FriendlyPerson[m: sfan5: so you mean on LN 227 to LN 228 in chests.lua correct? This is what's there... minetest.log("action", player:get_player_name() .. FriendlyPerson[m: " moves stuff in chest at " .. minetest.pos_to_string(pos)) sfan5: yep FriendlyPerson[m: Remove that and it should stops the loggings? FriendlyPerson[m: Got ya! FriendlyPerson[m: "yep" <- ACTUALLY it was a bit more involved since there were take and put references but being how easily "read able" LUA coding is it wasn't that difficult for me to resolve. It's was just a bit beyond that point (in the 22x area I believe). * FriendlyPerson[m: posted a file: (10KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jLiVzHBJQgEUJbxiywNvEpXy/chests.lua > FriendlyPerson[m: That's what I ended up with to cease the loggings as it been said. beanzilla: What is the itemstring for mineclone2's air (I.E. "default:air" for MTG) rubenwardy: air is in the engine, not MTG or MC2 rubenwardy: it's "air" in both cases beanzilla: Ah, ok so in this case the itemstring would just be "air"? Since it's the engine making it? Sublayer plank: yeah, it's just "air" beanzilla: Okay, thank you for the help, now back to breaking things in my mod... (err, fixing things. :) ) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: OpenAL: Free buffers on quit 134a3728d https://git.io/JBjid (152021-08-03T18:29:55Z) GNUHacker: opencomputer minecraft mod is a great mod to port, is free software under MIT license and have media under CC0 license, also have LUA code to manage the "OpenOS" computer system, Ill try port this mod to mineclone, Ill begin making the computer boxes nodes, maybe Ill need use digilines depend, idk celeron55: devwiki moved to the other host now, also updated to almost the newest mediawiki version celeron55: there's some work to do there due to the upgrade, it was about a bazillion years worth of skipped versions celeron55: meaning, it's not 100% compatible with the content FriendlyPerson[m: "meaning, it's not 100% compatibl..." <- This is why updating regularly is hence important. Now of days thanks to automatic updates for most server sided and applicaitons' stuffs this came a long way. Not perfect but that's what backing up is for. celeron55: it would have broken anyway at some point celeron55: there's no automatic upgrade method for mediawiki anyway, what are you even talking about FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: Hence I said "most" not all applications and server sided. Sublayer plank: mediawiki is a bit of an outliar, it doesn't have a web-based administration panel either by default celeron55: i like mediawiki, it's simple and robust celeron55: they never bloated it up into a silly unmanageable unrepairable balloon like many projects do FriendlyPerson[m: celeron55: Sure indeed frustrating when a project does go crazy off tangent. Yesterday's Discord updates made it seems like a Social Media platform than what's it's original purposes were to talk. Now they got a laundry list of "features" on top of that which in my opinion doesn't benefits that. This is also why I like Matrix better as well. It's largely sticks to the points. GreenXenith: Literally no one asked for the Discord threads feature. It's not useful. Fortunately, it can be disabled server-side. FriendlyPerson[m: EXACTLY! Nor the stickers, profiles ships, etc. GreenXenith: I dont really care about the profile stuff, its all cosmetic anyway rubenwardy: there's a mediawiki docker image, not sure if it supports autoupdating rubenwardy: if they had an upgrade script, updating would be `git pull && ./utils/migrate-db.sh` or whatever FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: Sure it's doesn't "bugs" anybody but to me it's becoming to akin to Facebook than a Instant Messaging chatting platform... rubenwardy: I disagree, but also so? FriendlyPerson[m: I feels at the very least it's wasting resources to some extent. For example instead of working on all of that what about making 2FA accept other forms like Hardware Authentications, SMSes, etc? GreenXenith: It already has SMS? FriendlyPerson[m: So it's become more accessible to more people? rubenwardy: SMS 2fa isn't secure FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: It's does? Not requiring Googleauth/Authy? GreenXenith: Yes, it has SMS. Also FYI, MTDiscord is the bridge. The name after it is the Discord user speaking. rubenwardy: TOTP is the protocol that GAuth and Authy use rubenwardy: it's an open protocol - which is why there are so many apps for it rubenwardy: there are even FF/Chrome extensions FriendlyPerson[m: MTDiscord: I will have to check this out really because when I was "FriendlyPerson" on there it was be flagging as a "compromised" account so I wanna 2FA as soon as I reliably do so. If it just a phone # and a single SMS now that's would works wonder for me. FriendlyPerson[m: Also understood thanks for you for reassuring me that Green. :) GreenXenith: 👍 FriendlyPerson[m: I am sorry GreenXenith but I am not seeing that config optoin on the Discord web client. I click "activate 2 Factor" or whatever that button is and it's says you can auth with either Google or Authy and for you enter the QR then enter the 6 digits. GNUHacker: how can I get a placed node param2? GreenXenith: FriendlyPerson: You need to enable regular 2FA before you can enable SMS I guess GNUHacker: I tryed core.get_node_at(pos).param2 but nope GreenXenith: And as rubenwardy said, TOTP is an open protocol so you dont have to use Google or Authy GreenXenith: GNUHacker: core.get_node(pos).param2 GreenXenith: or minetest.get_node GNUHacker: I also try node:get_param2_data() but return nil FriendlyPerson[m: Ah I see well that wouldn't work for me since I don't even own a Smartphone and you are correct and I tried TOTP Linux clients and they refuse to work with Discord. I think it might because Discord REQUIRES you to own a physical smart device. Because I configured them with the Discord presets. GreenXenith: Doesnt Google Auth have a web client? GreenXenith: Ah, there is a chrome extension GreenXenith: FriendlyPerson: Like Rubenwardy said, you can get FireFox or Chrome extensions for TOTP FriendlyPerson[m: And you think Discord won't mind it? GreenXenith: Authy also has a Linux client GNUHacker: GreenXenith: thanks! GreenXenith: I dont think Discord cares what you use as long as it gets a valid code FriendlyPerson[m: If you say so, I am still at a loss on why my past attempts on my old account didn't do jacks. But I guess I will try an extension now. GreenXenith: Authy has a snap https://snapcraft.io/authy FriendlyPerson[m: Correct that one of the htings I tried. rubenwardy: Discord won't be able to tell Pexin: Every part of this conversation is horrifying FriendlyPerson[m: I choose the Discord preset, enter my Discord username and tag and the code instead of the QR and that client did nothing after I enter that. Platekoala[m]: "Ah I see well that wouldn't work" <- hm? Platekoala[m]: i use aegis, it works fine Platekoala[m]: give a hard rejection to authy GreenXenith: FriendlyPerson: I just used https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auth-helper/ with web Discord and it worked perfectly FriendlyPerson[m: I'm chrome based and just tried GAuth and it retricts me to a site so I removed it https://chrome.google.com/webstore/search/totp%20authenticator and I can't see anything else that relevant and doesn't relies on a phone. GreenXenith: ill try it on chrome, give me a bit FriendlyPerson[m: Alrighty let me know if you find anything useful for that. FriendlyPerson[m: "Every part of this conversation..." <- I know right? BUT... it's where my VPS host is that worth being with. Unless they provide other reliable support options I am stuck "Discording" them. And I actually use their support cause I opted for their Sysadmin package just in case I need the extra hands. GreenXenith: FriendlyPerson: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/authenticator/bhghoamapcdpbohphigoooaddinpkbai?hl=en this is the same extension I use fore FireFox but for chrome. Works perfectly as well. GreenXenith: for* sfan5: !tell erlehmann https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11511 MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when erlehmann is around erlehmann: thx sfan5 MinetestBot: erlehmann: Aug-03 21:23 UTC https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11511 FriendlyPerson[m: Awesome thank you very much GreenXith for doing all of this for me. Much appreciate your dedication to helping me with my frustrations with the platform. ❤️ GreenXenith: No problem, glad it works for ya 👍 erlehmann: sfan5, i suggest to ask anon5 to review the boundaries erlehmann: sfan5, he may have some more ideas sfan5: more ideas for things to check? erlehmann: sfan5, yes, more boundaries that he found maybe erlehmann: where the code goes brrrrrrrr crash erlehmann: i mean he has this proxy for minetest protocol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentDB: Add support for package aliases / renaming (#11484) 13bee50ca https://git.io/JBFoo (152021-08-02T19:05:10Z) Pexin: .seen hlqkj sfan5: !seen hlqkj MinetestBot: sfan5: hlqkj was last seen at 2021-07-14 15:35:20 UTC on #minetest Pexin: not the bot I'm accustomed to, thank :] Calinou: happy 10th birthday, Minetest 0.2_20110731! Jungles and papyrus in Minetest are now 10 years old. Calinou: it's been 10 years since I played Minetest too, I first played it on 2011-07-06 Jordach: giant_cowboy_screaming.mp3 celeron55: that's some of the first (L)GPL contributed content celeron55: papyrus that is MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update IrrlichtMt-related stuff in README 130257e71 https://git.io/JB6yd (152021-07-31T11:26:17Z) AristotIe: is there a way to ask a minetest server if it has any players online from it's own command line? specing: ...huh? specing: you can wget the server list, it lists all connected players Kimapr: but what if the server is NOT on the server list? AristotIe: hmm sfan5: if you have the ncurses console run /status sfan5: if not then you can't AristotIe: ok, good to know, I'm assuming that I can probably find a way to make a mod that does that, but I wanted to make sure that there wasn't an integrated feature that did that Kimapr: doesn't bash use ncurses? Kimapr: and most people have bash installed MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Mods: Combine mod loading checks and deprection logging (#11503) 1332cb9d0 https://git.io/JBPW7 (152021-07-31T17:54:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix /emergeblocks crashing in debug builds (#11461) 13e7cd4cf https://git.io/JBPW5 (152021-07-31T17:54:40Z) jordan4ibanez: erlehmann, did you ever solve that problem? jordan4ibanez: I think it was a problem? Or was it a design choice question jordan4ibanez: I wonder if the string too long thing is due to strings using shorts jordan4ibanez: Why does set_pos and move_to not adjust your camera in a local server, but when you join a server it suddenly makes your camera flip out in the latest 5.5.0 build? sfan5: does it? jordan4ibanez: Yeah jordan4ibanez: I can do a minor bug report real quick sfan5: maybe it's yet another high fps bug jordan4ibanez: I have no idea, because it only happens on servers that aren't local MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Add a simple PNG image encoder with Lua API (#11485) 1380d12db https://git.io/JB8tE (152021-07-29T03:10:10Z) erlehmann: hey sfan5 why did you add “possible close” to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10981 ? erlehmann: i mean i pretty much have a way to reproduce this rubenwardy: Please share the way erlehmann: rubenwardy here https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/issues/129#issue-3091 erlehmann: rubenwardy any idea if i can create such an entity with devtest? erlehmann: > I could reproduce the crash by creating an item with more than 0xFFFF bytes of metadata, dropping it, then moving away. As soon as the map block gets unloaded, the server crashes erlehmann: and yes, dropping random shulkers can trigger this sfan5: erlehmann: because a more specific issue should be created to track that bug erlehmann: sfan5 well you could have commented that there erlehmann: i was just confused erlehmann: thank you MinetestBot: 02[git] 04 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unsupported extensions from list in tile.cpp 1328c98f9 https://git.io/JBE7Q (152021-07-29T19:47:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unsupported formats from the media enumerator 131e2b638 https://git.io/JBuvd (152021-07-29T20:42:47Z) GNUHacker: if I make a formspec like: "listring[current_player;inventory2]" give me my own inventory2. How can I get another player inventory2? some like a "listring[another_player;inventory2]" . Pls help GNUHacker: inventory2 is an example erlehmann: is it possible to make the inventory of a node secret so it is only sent to the client when interacting with the node? erlehmann: i am asking because some ppl have a ton of chests with cursed items erlehmann: and the general area becomes pretty laggy sfan5: nope sfan5: the engine could probably seamlessly do this without needing any client modifications erlehmann: last time someone did this it was fleck erlehmann: and it broke both local map saving and client prediction erlehmann: for inventories erlehmann: like prediction if stuff stacks erlehmann: sfan5 are you aware of anything that limits mapblock size? sfan5: no sfan5: this is the PR you mean btw #11014 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11014 -- Send only relevant ItemStack meta fields to Client by EliasFleckenstein03 erlehmann: sfan5 what if i make a private meta with the inventory string and on right click i copy the private meta into the inventory and when the formspec gets closed i copy it back to the private meta? erlehmann: i bet that solution implies some kind of dupe lol sfan5: what's the point of that question sfan5: if you implement the workaround it'd get you what you want sfan5: I guess that's a "yes" erlehmann: you mean that thing could work? sfan5: yes erlehmann: i was not sure if it would work erlehmann: hmmm erlehmann: lots of state management for two people having chests open hehe erlehmann: or technically, N people having chests open sfan5: you have to be very careful about multiple players opening a chest but other than that it's not that bad of an idea erlehmann: “not that bad of an idea” is basically all of my contributions lol erlehmann: “not bad”, but not as praise, but as “we'll let it slide” erlehmann: sfan5, but what about hoppers sfan5: you need to make them handle it sfan5: if you don't have any external mods that can work erlehmann: sfan5 is the “if #data > 65530 then -- would crash the engine” an educated guess or an actual hard limit? sfan5: I explain that last time erlehmann: sfan5 yeah the engine stores some other stuff i know. i will just use the value, i trust you to get it more right than me. sfan5: is not exact to clarify sfan5: it's* erlehmann: ok erlehmann: thx sfan5 you helped a lot Guest62: hello Krock: hi guest jordan4ibanez: sfan5, when you say "Mind downloading a 5.5.0-dev build to test?" do you mean just a latest build? sfan5: sure jordan4ibanez: I did that in that video I posted, it's still broken jordan4ibanez: In fact, it's slightly worse sfan5: ah sorry I didn't watch that far jordan4ibanez: All good sfan5: can you give me a ZIP of the test game? jordan4ibanez: https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/bug_showcase sfan5: wait okay so the bug is not "set_physics_override doesn't do anything", correct? jordan4ibanez: The bug is set_physics_override({sneak = false}) not only doesn't disable sneaking, it allows you to slow down like you're sneaking, clips on random collision geometry/nothing at all, completely breaks movement, sometimes clips into nodes erlehmann: hey jordan4ibanez can you maybe explain why your item pick up thing is superiour and what it actually yoes on a conceptual level? cora and me have not managed to figure it out completely. erlehmann: yoes → does sfan5: "allows you to slow down like you're sneaking" intended as far as I'm aware, could be documented better probably jordan4ibanez: It's simple, when you pick up an item, it instantly collects, the item moving towards you and disappearing is a complete visual compliment of that erlehmann: wait what erlehmann: jordan4ibanez so do you have any idea why the previous implementation did this thing where an item danced between two players or a player further away could pickup the thing? jordan4ibanez: allows you to slow down like you're sneaking, when I see the settings "sneak = false", I would assume that setting this to false would turn the sneak key from an engine implementation of slowing a player down and not letting them fall off the sides of nodes, into a key input that can be utilized by games to implement in game mechanics sfan5: you can do that you just have to set sneak speed identical to walk speed sfan5: anyway maybe someone else disagrees that it's a feature sfan5: time to reproduce this ynway sfan5: +a jordan4ibanez: How does one set the sneak speed? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1513-L1515 sfan5: movement_speed_crouch, minetest.conf Krock: ninja'd sfan5: this is bad sfan5: I believe there's a PR that exposes this to set_physics_override jordan4ibanez: erlehmann, well I would assume it's because it just runs through objects in area and the first player in that ordered array becomes the solution to X in X < null, where null should be replaced with the closest distance using Y = vector.distance(pos, X) jordan4ibanez: Well that conf is pretty cool, but, how do I change it in a game? sfan5: you can provide a default value via game.conf jordan4ibanez: This will hopefully affect any player that joins the server? sfan5: it's read and sent by the server yet sfan5: just no Lua API ... yet jordan4ibanez: Oh very nice, thank you sfan5: I don't notice anything out of the ordinary in bug_showcase sfan5: time to download a windows build sfan5: nope fine there too sfan5: must be the high fps like krock said jordan4ibanez: I have a 144 hz monitor, try it without vsync sfan5: can't seem to disable that here Krock: __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 vblank_mode=0 minetest Krock: anyway Krock: it's a duplicate issue, at least in that regard jordan4ibanez: A duplicate to what? Krock: see issue tracker sfan5: oh nvm there's max_fps too Krock: even with max_fps and vsync off, the driver might still force vsync sfan5: seems so jordan4ibanez: If you are on AMD you must do vblank_mode=0 minetest jordan4ibanez: IIRC I might be remembering wrong jordan4ibanez: For Linux sfan5: nvidia unfortunately jordan4ibanez: Apparently vblank_mode=0 also works for nouveau jordan4ibanez: You can also try export __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0 jordan4ibanez: For the proprietary ones sfan5: eh i'll reboot into windows sfan5: the PR i was thinking about btw #11465 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11465 -- New physics overrides by Wuzzy2 sfan5: however it doesn't actually add the crouch spee sfan5: I can no longer see the position in debug info sfan5: what nonsense is this sfan5: I thought games didn't have to do anyhing special to enable this sfan5: ah it was basic_debug Krock: blame #9315 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9315 -- Require 'basic_debug' priv to view gameplay-relevant debug info (2nd try), require 'debug' priv to view wireframe by Wuzzy2 sfan5: ok so the collision bug definitely exists sfan5: at the ~640 FPS I have entuland: uh... you get 640fps? sfan5: yes? entuland: okay, guess I just have crappy rig then :P sfan5: if you don't disable the default fps limit you won't get more than 60 sfan5: just btw entuland: oh that may be it as well entuland: not that it would make any difference with my 60Hz monitor anyways erlehmann: sfan5, can i use your code here in mineclonia under GPLv3 or any later version? https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/pulls/131 sfan5: you can use it under any license you want erlehmann: thx TheInformer: Is minetest running on M1 Macs yet? j45: @JorDACh ^ Jordach: yes Jordach: and unfortunately broken by a recent contrib TheInformer: ok so installing through brew would not work? Jordach: brew will likely be massively broken right now TheInformer: Oh ok sfan5: brew installs the stable version by default anyway sfan5: if you want to run it download one of Jordach's builds TheInformer: on the forum? sfan5: I guess so? TheInformer: yeah i found it nevermind TheInformer: does it have to run through rosetta? sfan5: no TheInformer: it just freezes if i dont sfan5: shouldn't sfan5: presumably it works for @Jordach TheInformer: 2021-07-28 16:31:42: [Main]: INFO: signal_handler(): got SIGTERM, shutting down. Jordach: what one did you use Jordach: Universal requires Big Sur or later TheInformer: minetest-5.5.0-dev-63fc728a8-BigSur-Universal-Lua.zip TheInformer: im on big sur Jordach: x64 JIT should run on any old mac Jordach: may require latest Big Sur TheInformer: I TheInformer: I TheInformer: crap Jordach: if you're running 11.3 or under TheInformer: I am on an M1 Mac mini Jordach: you're gonna have a bad time TheInformer: Oh ok, im on 11.2.2 Jordach: i can force cmake to build with older versions Jordach: hold on TheInformer: No, I can just update my mac, no problem Jordach: and yes my x64 JIT build works fine on the 2013 MBAir running Catalina Jordach: so i know the SDK works Edgy1: sfan5 / others: is there something up with the serverlist? i'm getting lots of packet loss no matter where I ping it Edgy1: some servers are having trouble announcing Edgy1: packet loss ranging from 20 - 40% in canada, and 40 - 60 in finland Edgy1: minetest works after increasing curl_timeout N_i_g_e_l: anyone know who looks after servers.minetest.net? nyje: anybody else have a problem with the serverlist in the minetest client? nyje: I'm getting an error nyje: 2021-07-27 09:21:05: ERROR[AsyncWorker-0]: servers.minetest.net/list?proto_version_min=37&proto_version_max=39 not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0) Sublayer plank: sfan7 runs the server list Sublayer plank: also the server list works for me, idk why you're getting errors nyje: strange, Im on minetest 5.4.1 and get nothing in the in game server list except "loading" nyje: and that error in the console sfan5: Edgy1: haven't noticed anything but i'll check sfan5: looks like it's fine right now sfan5: but the status page of the host says there was some packet loss between 2am and 4am, been fixed nyje: nice that 5.4.1 can be compiled for linux so simply, I guess that will break on the next version when the build will be against the irrlicht-MT fork again.. sfan5: don't worry we've made sure that's super easy too nyje: I cant figure out how to build against the irrlicht-MT fork nyje: It gets complicated, because my system tries to use the debian irrlicht, hopefully someone more persistant than me will post detailed build instructions for ubuntu/mint/debian based OS's when the next version lands ;-) sfan5: you can git clone the repo into /lib/irrlichtmt and it'll pick it up and compile it alongside automatically nyje: I tried that, and cmake just cheerfully ignored it and tried to use the packaged irrlicht ;-( sfan5: try deleting CMakeCache.txt first nyje: I'll try again when the next version drops, the 'one line ubuntu build script' is working fine for 5.4.1 for now ;-) nyje: I'm just worried about compiling the next version on my remote headless debian VPS systems where I have my servers ;-) sfan5: that shouldn't get any harder sfan5: we'll see when 5.5 is done nyje: tes indeedy ;-) nyje: *yes nyje: thanks for the hints sfan5 anyhoo 8o) ilomiglio: Hi, i set server_announce as true, but i still not seeing anything on minetest public test listing ilomiglio: i'm on a vps sfan5: IP and port? configured the firewall? do you use a domain? ipv6? ilomiglio: domain set, i can play if i give the correct url but sometimes it goes in timeout ilomiglio: sfan5, 999labs.ovh:30000, firewall opened 22 tcp, 10000 udp and 30000 udp, domain 999labs.ovh configured with A to the vps ip, using ipv4 sfan5: !up 999labs.ovh 30000 MinetestBot: 999labs.ovh:30000 is up (14ms) (IPv4) sfan5: well I guess it works sfan5: well I guess it works sfan5: oops sfan5: !up 999labs.ovh 30000 MinetestBot: 999labs.ovh:30000 is up (14ms) (IPv4) sfan5: !up 999labs.ovh 30000 MinetestBot: 999labs.ovh:30000 is up (14ms) (IPv4) sfan5: hmm you have two IPs on the domain sfan5: !up 193.70.91.146 MinetestBot: 193.70.91.146:30000 is up (14ms) sfan5: !up 213.186.33.5 MinetestBot: 213.186.33.5:30000 seems to be down sfan5: the second one doesn't work, there's your issue ilomiglio: what is 213 ip? ilomiglio: lemme check, you said i have 2 ips sfan5: I wouldn't know, it's set on your domain: https://dns.google/query?name=999labs.ovh Warr1024: Yeah, if you have 2 IP addresses then each user trying to reach the thing will get a random-ish IP out of those 2, and that includes the server list. Warr1024: So your server is half-working and half not and so the server list will always be half wrong. hecks: the server is in a state of superposition until someone tries to connect to it... luizsab: hi everyone. Is there any way to move a gold loaded chest (technic mod)? ilomiglio: it may be the dns, i look at it as ec ilomiglio: a sec luizsab: the wrench just works with simple chest ilomiglio: nice tool of google dns ilomiglio: found the IPs in the dns zone ilomiglio: ok, now i have a single A record ilomiglio: server restarted sfan5: if you wait a bit for dns to update it should start working automatically ilomiglio: also, i found a bug in give_initial_tool ilomiglio: if you set the string from minetest.conf it ignores the first item in the list ilomiglio: sfan, i directly rebooted the vps ilomiglio: i know what that ip is, it's the webmail of ovh ilomiglio: all ok now, thank you sfan5 luizsab: hi everyone. Sorry by ask again, but Is there any way to move a gold loaded chest (technic mod)? ilomiglio: locked chest? ilomiglio: i use a wrench on enyek-something server but it just sort the chest inventory luizsab: no it isnt locked luizsab: there is a wrench but it just work with simple chest ilomiglio: if i got it, the wrench is used for moving the chest elsewhere or for sorting the chest inventory? i'm accustomed to a different technic mod luizsab: wrench move the simple chest. Gold chest has a inner command to sort luizsab: gold chest is on technic mod ilomiglio: To pickup a node simply right click on it. If the node contains a formspec, ilomiglio: you will need to shift+right click instead. Benrob0329: New (short) video premiering in ~5 minutes: https://youtu.be/B3jOmeOPEtI luizsab: ilomiglio thank you!!! It's works, I was flying hahahaha ilomiglio: talking about give_initial_stuff ilomiglio: if i use a list without a heading comma, i lose the first item ilomiglio: is there a way to get the number of registered player in the sqlite database from inside the mod? e.g. not using sqlite3 cmd ilomiglio: if someone needs it, it's "select count(*) from auth" MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve documentation of tools (#11128) 13216728c https://git.io/J4NVK (152021-07-27T17:09:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentDB: Add reason to downloads (#10876) 139c145ba https://git.io/J4NVX (152021-07-27T17:08:49Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add bold, italic and monospace font styling for HUD text elements (#1… 136e8aebf https://git.io/J4NKA (152021-07-27T17:11:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04JosiahWI -> 03minetest/minetest: Take advantage of IrrlichtMt CMake target (#11287) 13cf13691 https://git.io/J4NKh (152021-07-27T17:11:27Z) Out`Of`Control: Hi, anyone has access to servers.minetest.net, my minetest server disappear from server list. Nothing has been changed, suddenly server disappear. I Try everything, did not help. Warr1024: hostname:port? Out`Of`Control: rbose.org:30000 Warr1024: I can't find any evidence that that domain exists. Warr1024: Did your domain just expire or something? Out`Of`Control: Thats odd as i can connect and ssh to it Warr1024: you must have it cached Out`Of`Control: Registry Expiry Date: 2028-02-19T21:51:59Z Warr1024: best check with your DNS provider and make sure something weird isn't going on... Out`Of`Control: I replace address with IP Out`Of`Control: 45.132.245.172 Warr1024: I tried it on my own network, from my VPS, from a random "DNS lookup tool" website, and all say rbose.org does not exist. Warr1024: I'm seeing NS records and such for rbose.org, i.e. implying domain authority, I guess, but not getting an A records that point to an actual host or anything. Warr1024: The PTR reverse record for your IP back to rbose.org works Out`Of`Control: I have to look & edit DNS settings? Warr1024: Either that, or check to see if they're having an outage or other issue Guest8270: Warr1024 thanks sfan5: !up rbose.org 30000 MinetestBot: rbose.org:30000 seems to be down (host did not resolve) sfan5: yeah that's consistent with what Warr1024 said Out`Of`Control: sfan5: strange some can connect, other not. Warr1024: I recently saw a hiccup where my VPS and my home network couldn't reach each other for like 5 minutes, and that almost never happens ... I wonder if there's an "internet weather" situation going on, like when people occasionally launch massive DDoS attacks against bits of internet infrastructure, or like that time when Azure accidentally DDoSed itself and took down a hunk of the internet... Warr1024: https://xkcd.com/908/ erlehmann: ok i missed this so far, this is funny http://cheatdb.elidragon.com/packages/?type=mod erlehmann: rubenwardy, are some of those mods that are rejected from contentdb for one reason or another? erlehmann: or does it only superficially look similar? Sublayer plank: well they all seem to be clientmods erlehmann: hmm indeed Warr1024: ContentDB is open source, anyone can run their own instance for any reason. Mods that are ineligible for the official CDB is one obvious motivation for actually doing this, but anyone could for any reason they want. erlehmann: so i guess you can not get clientmods with contentdb? Out`Of`Control: !up rbose.org MinetestBot: rbose.org:30000 seems to be down (host did not resolve) Out`Of`Control: !up http://v2202103144741147811.powersrv.de/ MinetestBot: Out`Of`Control: invalid port Sublayer plank: yeah. plus all those clientmods seem to be for... gaining an unfair advantage over others, maybe not something that would be suitable for regular contentdb Out`Of`Control: !up http://v2202103144741147811.powersrv.de 30000 MinetestBot: ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2) (file "/home/sfan5/mtbot/modules/serverup.py", line 48, in serverup) sfan5: (without the http) Out`Of`Control: !up v2202103144741147811.powersrv.de 30000 MinetestBot: v2202103144741147811.powersrv.de:30000 is up (13ms) (IPv4) erlehmann: an unfair advantage such as stripping color from chat ;) erlehmann: !up 127.0.0.1 22 MinetestBot: 127.0.0.1:22 seems to be down erlehmann: !up 127.0.0.1 80 Sublayer plank: just to be clear I'm not hating on hacked clients or cheats for anarchy servers where that is the norm, but it's just not something the official contentdb would want to promote erlehmann: !up 127.0.0.1 23 MinetestBot: 127.0.0.1:23 seems to be down erlehmann: !up 127.0.0.1 631 MinetestBot: 127.0.0.1:631 seems to be down erlehmann: ^^ erlehmann: !up ::1 80 MinetestBot: [::1]:80 seems to be down erlehmann: hehe sfan5: these clientmods do not run on an unmodified engine either, that's another simple reason it wouldn't be on the contentdb erlehmann: ah erlehmann: right erlehmann: the minetest engine is lacking all kinds of useful functions that they use Sublayer plank: well yeah there's clientmods that do more benign stuff but cheatdb is pretty clear in what type of clientmods they want erlehmann: sfan i think echest is possible on vanilla though erlehmann: as is chat ignore Sublayer plank: aren't clientmods already in the vanilla minetest engine? Sublayer plank: or does dragonfire extend the clientmod API to add more stuff sfan5: latter Warr1024: I think if the mods would work on an unmodified MT, then they would be acceptable on CDB, even if their proposed application is questionably dishonest. There are mods like the Troll mod on CDB, after all. Out`Of`Control: how long it take to appear on that public list of servers? sfan5: if the list can successfully connect to your server it's close to instant Out`Of`Control: its not there Out`Of`Control: Ok i see ~ ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0) erlehmann: > mods like the Troll mod erlehmann: what does it do? sfan5: Out`Of`Control: that appears when your server has trouble reaching the server list Warr1024: https://content.minetest.net/packages/niwla23/troll/ <- adds a whole bunch of random commands for admins to mess with players Out`Of`Control: i can ping servers.minetest.net Warr1024: heh, "very WIP" ... well shit, what isn't? sfan5: do you have curl_timeout configured in your config? Out`Of`Control: No i add it curl_timeout = 5000 Out`Of`Control: Wait Out`Of`Control: sfan5: its now listed! sfan5: you shouldn't need it but if it doesn't work you can try a high value like 30000 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: buildbot: Readd missing IrrlichtMt DLLs 132866918 https://git.io/J4x7g (152021-07-27T18:37:51Z) Out`Of`Control: sfan5: thanks Out`Of`Control: Thanks everyone for help! Out`Of`Control: i have to clean up my config. Settings are not changed from 0.4.x * rocky_fuchsian_4: < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/4941835d343eb3f8f7365612b641921c6e729d9f/message.txt > rocky_fuchsian_4: Can I see a simple example for a mod that places a block? I’m not able to do this simple task. rocky_fuchsian_4: With this code: sfan5: you're approaching several things wrong sfan5: first, nodes need to be registered right in the top level of your mod, not inside any callback (that includes register_on_mods_loaded) sfan5: you're emerging an empty area from 0,0,0 to 0,0,0 rocky_fuchsian_4: https://plik.artemislena.eu/file/VRWPSKvQVFzliGQI/oiK5HDBmIpmhgDTT/init.lua sfan5: and you're not passing a callback function but calling place_node *before* emerge_area rocky_fuchsian_4: Oh okay. Let me see if that helps. sfan5: and lastly the output from minetest.debug is not typically visible, try print() instead rocky_fuchsian_4: Do I need to emerge an area before I place blocks there? sfan5: if you want to place it at a specific fixed location without a player nearby, yes sfan5: in other cases no rocky_fuchsian_4: sfan5: Any idea why this: rocky_fuchsian_4: https://plik.artemislena.eu/file/fUudg2Zm3bHgdyRm/019eo1Lzm9bwAkrC/init.lua rocky_fuchsian_4: Does not work? sfan5: set_pos will not instantly load the blocks so place_node won't do anything sfan5: it'd be much easier if you tried to place a node where the player already is rocky_fuchsian_4: Hmm. With: rocky_fuchsian_4: player:set_pos(vector.new(0, 10, 0)); rocky_fuchsian_4: minetest.place_node(vector.new(0, 10, 0), {name="frog:janet"}); rocky_fuchsian_4: It doesn’t seem to work either sfan5: "where the player already is" is supposed to mean that you don't teleport them rocky_fuchsian_4: Ohh okay. sfan5: drop the set_pos and e.g. minetest.place_node(vector.add(player:get_pos(), vector.new(0, 2, 0)), {name="frog:janet"}) rocky_fuchsian_4: That doesn’t appear to do anything nor does it result in an error. sfan5: are you testing it in an new world? rocky_fuchsian_4: I test each revision in a new world, yes. sfan5: hm true sfan5: it appears since the game teleports the player to his spawnpoint you have to add a small delay, this works http://sprunge.us/4tE6Kt Ilomiglio: Good evening, awk is so sweet Ilomiglio: turns out i could even not use it, just a strict query erlehmann: DID YOU KNOW: minetest crashes if entities have too much meta erlehmann: on unloading the map block erlehmann: have fun with this info, i am building a fix into mineclonia sfan5: too much is probably more than 64KB, right? erlehmann: more than serializeString16 can handle erlehmann: it should not crash! sfan5: would silently deleting the entity be better? erlehmann: no, delete it with an error message sfan5: that's what I meant sfan5: it's silent to the game erlehmann: i do not want to argue about the meaning of “silently” rn ;) erlehmann: but yeah erlehmann: sfan5 here https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/issues/129 erlehmann: this is the bug erlehmann: sfan5, shulkers are chests that can contain other items. that way you can easily have items that are representable in chests and inventories of players, but not as serialized entities. erlehmann: granted, this happens here because of the “drop items as entities” mod in mineclonia / mineclone2 / mineclone5 erlehmann: but something like this should not crash the game IMO erlehmann: if you forceenchant a fishing rod with efficiency in any of the mcl games it will hve 127kb of useless metadata last i checked hehe erlehmann: i.e. if you drop it and walk away, i think it should crash the game erlehmann: sfan5 is there maybe an engine bug open on this already? sfan5: not to my knowledge sfan5: but I am not all knowing sfan5: so search for one? :D erlehmann: well i found two erlehmann: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8977 erlehmann: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10981 erlehmann: the latter one erlehmann: > String too long for serializeString(16) caused by mod #10981 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10981 -- String too long for serializeString(16) caused by mod sfan5: that's unfortunately way too general sfan5: it's possibly the exact bug you mean though erlehmann: well the mineclonia bug is very specific erlehmann: and has a way to reproudce it erlehmann: so if you could link those two i'd be thankful sfan5: i'll consider it and perhaps open a new one erlehmann: oh btw it is important that if this emits a bug visible in-game erlehmann: i mean an error msg erlehmann: that error message does not contain coords erlehmann: otherwise evil people come and TNT my illegal items erlehmann: i wonder which server other than clamity and kay27 server are so damn cursed sfan5: error messages are only printed to the server console/debug.txt erlehmann: i found a bedrock construction on kay27 server and he says he has no idea how it got there lol sfan5: showing error messages ingame is an SP-only feature erlehmann: but i like cursed erlehmann: good erlehmann: :) erlehmann: ah! erlehmann: thx erlehmann: sfan5, are long itemstrings always "a:b 1 2 […]", i.e. 4 parts divided by spaces? erlehmann: bc my fix in mineclonia will be to cut off the last part sfan5: yes no perhaps sfan5: if you have an ItemStack just clear the meta instead? erlehmann: wdym sfan5: like instead of operating on some string use stack:get_meta():from_table({}) sfan5: wrap that in local stack = ItemStack(s); ...; s = stack:to_string() if you haven't got one erlehmann: uh erlehmann: at the point where i am i do not have an itemstack erlehmann: i can show you erlehmann: sfan this is where it crashes https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/src/branch/master/mods/ENTITIES/mcl_item_entity/init.lua#L450 erlehmann: sfan5 erlehmann: sfan5 i do not see any other possibility to fix it and at that point i only have self.itemstring erlehmann: if that is bigger or equl than 65375, the serialization fails sfan5: http://sprunge.us/BCA8et?lua erlehmann: sfan5, are you sure it would not crash on minetest.serialize? sfan5: yes erlehmann: why erlehmann: also where does the 65530 come from sfan5: despite naming similarities serializeString16 is called inside the engine sometime after you return the too-long data to it sfan5: 65536 - some safety margin erlehmann: oh ok erlehmann: why safety margin lol erlehmann: we need every byte! erlehmann: but let me explore this! erlehmann: thx sfan5: entity staticdata includes some stuff from the engine to save orientation, hp sfan5: so you do actually need some sfan5: and it's likely larger than 6 sfan5: (the engine invisibly adds this, you never see it) sfan5: or actually I'm not 100% sure if that counts toward the limit erlehmann: sfan5, thx how do you want to be credited in the git history? sfan5: say it was my idea or something sfan5: doesn't really matter erlehmann: no i mean for author erlehmann: i need the info for git blame sfan5: I assumed the commit author would be you erlehmann: so future generations can hold you responsible for your lua crimes erlehmann: i would be the committer erlehmann: but i can not answer why it was written sfan5: well if you absolutely want to sfan5: sfan5 erlehmann: thx erlehmann: yes sfan5: in the future some forum user will misunderstand this and claim I worked on mineclone sfan5: I'm sure erlehmann: sfan5, btw this is my solution https://mister-muffin.de/p/bDRG.txt erlehmann: sfan5 too late, being in the git history basically ensures you will be in the contributors list lol erlehmann: everyone will complain this is not EXACTLY LIKE MINECRAFT erlehmann: recently i made a change to the tsm_railcorridors mod so that 1 in 1000 spawners is a pig spawner erlehmann: rationale: you sometimes get pig spawners in that other game erlehmann: and some ppl seriously say “oh but that is a bug” erlehmann: well, if you do not remove a bug for like >10 years i am pretty sure we call that a feature erlehmann: next up: bunnyhopping in quake is totally a bug ^^ sfan5: MT should have bunnyhopping sfan5: ok well it does sfan5: because what if someone wants to recreate quake in MT sfan5: and someone totally should erlehmann: because what if someone wants to recreate quake in MT erlehmann: [[ jordach intensifies ]] erlehmann: sfan5, so what is wrong with this actually? i mean it is wrong, but like, on what level? only the string manip? https://mister-muffin.de/p/bDRG.txt sfan5: string manip is unclean erlehmann: yes erlehmann: absolutely haram sfan5: also checking only the itemstring is error prone when you have other variables that contribute to length sfan5: I don't expect it to be actually an issue since self.always_collect, age and all that stuff are just booleans or numbers erlehmann: sfan5, can i get this as actual copyable text somewhere? http://sprunge.us/BCA8et?lua erlehmann: there are line numbers in front sfan5: just s/\?lua// erlehmann: oh http://sprunge.us/BCA8et erlehmann: thx erlehmann: sfan5 the recursive call of self.get_staticdata looks funny erlehmann: i just need an item with a very long name! erlehmann: i will test your solution :) erlehmann: thank you so much sfan5: fundamentally it's the same issue as in your code erlehmann: yes sfan5: except I actually check the length of the serialized text erlehmann: this code allows you to have cursed items erlehmann: like written books without text sfan5: spooky erlehmann: enchanted items without enchantment erlehmann: btw, you know any good weather mod? erlehmann: mineclonia inherited one from mineclone2 that works like erlehmann: “oh you are a minetest client? here is a particle for every raindrop” Jonathon: Climate_api by testificate erlehmann: which obv is a lagfest erlehmann: ok i will look at it erlehmann: thx erlehmann: that's a cool weather mod erlehmann: Jonathon, wow, only ~30 particle spammer packets per second instead of 800 to 1000 particle packets per second! rocky_fuchsian_4: > it appears since the game teleports the player to his spawnpoint you have to add a small delay, this works http://sprunge.us/4tE6Kt rocky_fuchsian_4: sfan5: This actually does not appear to work (as in it doesn’t do anything and no errors are reported). Jonathon: erlehmann: if i recall correctly weather in mineclone2 is descended from a ancient mtg version, would be interesting to compare the two to see how much it has improved since Extex: Ok so I want to be able to test if a player can see an entity, but have it support fov changes, any idea how I would go about doing so? Warr1024: There's no good way. You sort of have to assume some worst case. If it's within like 30 degrees they almost surely can see it, but you can't be sure they don't up to 180 degrees. Warr1024: Also you have to account for raycast imprecision, plus network latency. Warr1024: I've had a weeping angels mod suggested to me on at least 2 separate occasions so I've had to consider this... Xanabella: Dev-Test has one Example for every entitiy, if you see it it should go and for Multiplayer ... Host Server and ask somebody to join and look Pexin: just use 180 Pexin: use 140, only a deranged lunatic would use that high Swift110-mobile: hey all Calinou: Minetest specifies FOV as a vertical FOV in minetest.conf, but horizontal FOV depends on your monitor's aspect ratio Calinou: if you want to play it safe, you can use the default horizontal FOV for a 21:9 monitor: 119 degrees Calinou: (https://themetalmuncher.github.io/fov-calc/) Calinou: there's no way to know a client's monitor aspect ratio from the Lua API, so you can't guess their horizontal FOV that way either Calinou: Minetest supports any aspect ratio, but I doubt anyone is playing it with a monitor wider than 21:9 freshreplicant[m: What is the default water_level setting for v7/Minetest? ACRONIX: https://discord.gg/nNUq82e5 Sublayer plank: uhh Sublayer plank: that icon's not minetest ACRONIX: tu et français ACRONIX: pour quoi tu à quiter Jonathon: Freshreplicant, look at example.minetest.conf, i think it was one freshreplicant[m: Freshreplicant, look "> Thanks, yeah it seems it was 1. I guess a game/mod changed it somehow. Warr1024: IIRC there are games that change it, and the engine is supposed to handle this properly but doesn't. e.g. https://content.minetest.net/threads/639/ sfan5: that has been fixed already sfan5: it was a regression that wasn't in 5.3 Warr1024: Interesting. Does minetest.settings:set() also take effect only for the current world then, or does that one also still leak settings into minetest.conf? sfan5: no, it's global Warr1024: Right, but does it leak values back into minetest.conf and thus pollute settings cross-world? sfan5: by "global" I mean "into minetest.conf" Warr1024: Okay, is there already an existing bug report for that? sfan5: there will be none because it's not a bug Warr1024: Okay so how do I file a "design flaw" report then :-/ sfan5: is "mods can mess up the users config" the flaw? sfan5: because mods do not lack a way to set mapgen settings per-world properly Warr1024: That along with "mods are required to mess with config" sfan5: they are not Warr1024: Last time I checked, mapgen_settings only affect mapgen, so settings that are not related to mapgen need to be set via minetest.settings:set sfan5: sure Warr1024: Is it actually meaningful to set, say, time_speed as a mapgen setting, and will that only apply to the given world then? sfan5: nope doesn't work sfan5: but putting it in the games' minetest.conf does Warr1024: Those are overridden by user config though, aren't they? Warr1024: and games also can't prevent the engine from interpreting those directly, so they need to be set correctly in settings. sfan5: if the user wants to break the game why prevent him from doing so? Warr1024: Because as a game publisher I am responsible for providing the user with the correct experience under all reasonable circumstances, and because Minetest fosters a culture of adding salt to your food before tasting it. sfan5: but is that a reasonable circumstance? most people won't even look at what time_speed is Warr1024: hence why they will get config from somebody else and set it to 72 naively. Somehow that has crept into my OWN settings on multiple occasions, probably due to mods that have no other way to change time speed. Warr1024: In any event I as a modder/gamedev need the ability to make settings values that have no meaning other than breaking the game not set to values that break the game, and I should not have to be fighting against the engine while it's trying to provide users with every possible footgun and bypassing the game design stage entirely. Warr1024: There is a problem specifically for how time_speed is used and how it's configurable, and then there is a separate issue with the entire flawed idea of "user freedom" applying to Minetest's users' users but not the users themselves. Warr1024: At least presumably the latter has been acknowledged to some extent, but I guess I'll need an issue for the former at least. Warr1024: There are probably a few ways it could be handled properly. Maybe allow all settings to be overridden by mod per-world. Maybe don't have the engine directly interpret any settings for world behavior directly, but go though the mods. Maybe sprinkle multipliers or adjustments or something for each setting value. I'm not sure. sfan5: I'd say you don't really need this if mods were behaving and not setting time_speed without the users consent (I consider that a bug) sfan5: second, if this is done someone will need to define which settings are too important to be set by the user Warr1024: I just searched through Discord and found 3 examples of people messing with time_speed already. I also have no power over what other mods do, but am responsible for defending MY own game from their bad behavior, and so if we can't get every mod to behave (or be maintained) and there's no way to protect other mods from externalities or force those to be internalized by the perpetrators, we're just setting up a "tragedy of the commons" MTDiscord: scenario. Warr1024: In theory just having nobody actually override this setting would work, but unfortunately theory is not where minetest is actually played. Warr1024: If we keep everything within the settings subsystem then the most straightforward way I can think of it would be to just have a "forced_settings" in game.conf which is (1) never interpreted from user settings, and (2) causes other settings to be never interpreted from user settings. Warr1024: I don't know how to separate client vs. server settings out from that, but possibly it doesn't need to be done, because handing gamedevs a footgun is a different proposition from handing players a footgun: we can expect gamedevs to at least be informed to some extent. sfan5: the land of expection is not where gamedev happens either sofar: the best solution I've come up with is to have each server use it's own minetest.conf Warr1024: Certainly gamedev is not a perfect world either, but at least it gives us some central figures to scream at Warr1024: "each server use its own minetest.conf" does not work for SP. Warr1024: though yes, that is pretty much the de facto standard for MP Warr1024: It's SP where cross-world leakage is really painful though sfan5: I remember crafter trying to add a security exception for one of its mods so it could download skins, of course the engine ignores these but it serves as an example Warr1024: The problem with the theory of giving players control over all the settings is that you can't get informed consent from people who actively resist becoming informed... Warr1024: Yes, I would rather gamedevs get in trouble for trying to do things with settings that break gameplay, than make the players have to suffer the consequences while gamedevs are effectively powerless to do anything about it. Warr1024: "Sorry, I am forced by the game engine to hold you responsible for that" sfan5: you can also error out at load time if settings are not what you expect sfan5: but I guess that is also "holding the players responsible" Warr1024: As far as just having nobody actually mess with time_speed, that doesn't actually work in practice either, because you can only set it to a constant in minetest.conf, you can't vary it at runtime, like you can with settings:set. Maybe the cleanest thing to do would be to provide a runtime-only adjustment specifically for this setting, possibly for certain other specific settings... Warr1024: Yeah, the problem is that for a lot of gamedevs, new completely-naive players are an important target population and we can't hold them responsible for anything at all. The new content installation system helps a lot, but we also can't be sure they didn't get bad or outdated advice elsewhere, so anything we can do to help is important... sfan5: warning users about their broken configurations hopefully helps in some cases rubenwardy: I support adding per-world minetest.conf, and then making minetest.settings:set only write to there sfan5: we already have an issue for that sfan5: but it's not clear to me how client settings will be separated from that sfan5: you don't want to got to the key change menu only to find that you only changed the keys in this world sfan5: go* epoch: "this game is trying to change the setting to allow TNT. do you want to allow it?" Warr1024: Do mods and menus use the same methods to access settings? Warr1024: Maybe the simplest way to separate them out is to just have a minetest.world_setttings:set() thing for setting world-specific settings, and keep builtin and MTE accessing the global stuff. Warr1024: That also keeps bug-for-bug compatibility which everyone loves :-) Warr1024: world_settings:set() or settings:set_world() or whatever, as long as I have a method I can call instead of naively scrambling settings. Warr1024: This would give me a way to be a good citizen to other SP worlds, BUT also defend myself against other SP worlds that are not being good citizens, so it would solve at least some problems. rubenwardy: There's no need for that rubenwardy: minetest.settings should just write to world settings rubenwardy: The menu API is different Warr1024: If that's the case then it works for me. Got an issue number I can look at, or at least the right search term to find it? :-) Warr1024: I found #6966, is that the one? ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6966 -- World-specific settings rubenwardy: Title looks right Warr1024: Hmm, okay, so assuming that 6966 is not going to get resolved for a while, what's my best strat for actually addressing the time_speed issue? For all worlds running my game, I want the setting to be 0. Warr1024: It seems like I would set it in minetest.conf for the game, not set it in mod code, and then have to (1) work around it being non-zero, probably by repeatedly calling set_timeofday() in a timer, and (2) warn somebody somehow. Warr1024: For (1) that will cause some extra network traffic and won't actually achieve the correct effect (it will be juddery) but it might be a close enough approximation...? Warr1024: For (2) though figuring out who to inform, and how, might be tricky. Possibly just anybody with the "server" priv? Maybe just as a colored-text chat message? A popup error upon entering would be bad enough to be considered "game-breaking". Warr1024: Given that it's just a chat message I'd have to consider that a "warning" so whatever mitigation I use I would have to assume may need to run indefinitely. Even being informed of the issue a server owner can't necessarily restart the server at just any time. sfan5: /set -n time_speed 0 Hawk777: If it’s a server, isn’t it likely that either (1) they set this before first startup, in which case they will likely connect right away to check things out, see it right away, and be able to restart right away because nobody else has joined yet; or (2) they just changed this in an existing world as part of some kind of experiment, in which case they’re probably well equipped to change it back right away when the experiment fa Hawk777: And if it’s singleplayer, the player can probably restart any time, especially right after they first start the game. Warr1024: re: "/set -n" yeah, that's what I was doing before, but now I'm trying to be a good citizen. The correct thing for them to do is to completely unset the setting, not set it to the setting that's right for this world but wrong for the other. sfan5: the server admin can fix it without restarting the world is what I'm saying sfan5: and then fix it correctly during downtime later Warr1024: As for the "if it's a server" thing, I don't want to go too far down the path of having a different flow for each use-case, and I don't want to get too deep into how non-naive server operators would operate their servers. The whole point of a warning is for users who don't already know... Hawk777: My logic led to the same conclusion at the end of both paths, though: it should be OK to just yell at them that they broke it and not implement a nasty workaround to keep things limping along until they fix it. And as sfan5 mentioned it can be fixed without even restarting. Warr1024: Eh, I could give them a stopgap solution I guess, but I'm going to have a small attention budget to work with so I don't know if I'll be able to get too far into hybrid short/long term solutions. Warr1024: If I'm gonna not solve the problem properly then I'd rather go with the workaround and no warning than the warning and no workaround. Warr1024: I already have a non-proper solution that solves it soundly after all: I can just set time_speed to 0 myself and make this "someone else's problem" but in an engine-ward direction rather than a user-ward one, i.e. hold the people who have the power to solve it responsible instead of the user. Hawk777: Hm, but workaround without warning means the player will get a suboptimal experience (the workaround instead of the proper solution) forever because they don’t *know* they have anything to fix. Warning without workaround, they fix it, everything is perfect. Warr1024: So what it sounds like I'm left with is: (1) set time_speed to 0 in the game's minetest.conf; if the user hasn't set it explicitly, then that will Just Work, and (2) if time_speed at runtime is non-zero then that means the player has messed with it, so I can just change it back to 0 automatically only in that case, which fits with the general "user gets what they deserve for messing with settings" philosophy then. sfan5: I suggest (1) because you're going to do that either way and check at runtime and yell at the user if it's not zero Warr1024: I suppose I could include a warning message Warr1024: "The game was unable to configure itself properly, you have to fix it" is pretty shitty advertising for the game, and for minetest overall. sfan5: it should sound more like "your settings break this game, fix them or enjoy it broken" Warr1024: Having game devs forced to make users responsible for configuration is going to conflict with rubenwardy's goals for the featured packages in CDB, at least. sfan5: haven't read those yet celeron55_: i think a game should be able to override a setting like time_speed if it wants to. it's clearly a similar thing as something like creative mode, i.e. applicable to some games and some not Warr1024: Yeah, the problem is just figuring out how we should mix games that need to set time_speed with those that want to leave the user in control, because right now setting it at the game level overrides it for the user, which pollutes settings affecting all other games that assume it's the user's choice. Warr1024: Fixing 6966 would resolve it, but unless somebody who actually understands the relevant bits gets a fire lit under their ass somehow, I still need to figure out how I should limp along in the meantime. Warr1024: On the other hand, how well I limp along might also have an impact on the ability to light or sustain said ass-fires so I don't want to completely sweep this under the rug, but at the same time the user shouldn't be the one who has pressure put on them because of it. Warr1024: er, s/user/player/, to clarify, since we're talking in an enginey context where gamedevs are really the frontline consumers. celeron55_: maybe it should be a world setting Warr1024: Yeah, I think that's where #6966 was going with it. Just not a lot of traction on that right now... ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6966 -- World-specific settings Warr1024: Hmm, looking at rubenwardy's comment in there, it doesn't look like that would work well either, unless the game were to look for a world/minetest.conf, parse those settings, merge its own into there, and then write it back. Warr1024: The bottom-line use-case is: as a game dev, I need to be able to control certain setting values (currently mainly time_speed) to prevent them from being modified by users or other games/mods when the only other values they can be set to merely degrade or break the game. Warr1024: ...or I need to be able to control by some other means the engine behaviors that are currently only controllable via those settings. sfan5: perhaps that'd be a better approach sfan5: because on a whim I can't think of any other server settings that games need to control Warr1024: Yeah, decoupling it from settings was one thing I suggested at some point. Instead of minetest using the time_speed setting we could just have minetest.set_time_speed(num) or something and have builtin do the job of pulling it from settings by default, but then after that, persisting it as a setting vs. adjusting it at runtime could be independent. Warr1024: Another one I need to control is enable_damage and creative_mode, but Wuzzy already has a PR open for that Warr1024: I also need to be able to control movement_liquid_sink, but that should really be a player physics override to begin with. Warr1024: And the last one is display_gamma, but I need to be able to adjust it but can't take total control. I want to be able to apply a baseline adjustment to boost mid/low tones, but the player still needs to be able to adjust to compensate for display-specific needs. rubenwardy: For now, just set the setting from the game Warr1024: Yeah, for now I'm setting most of these in the per-game default config, since they're also generally not messed-with. time_speed is a bit more of a pathological case though. erlehmann: > The bottom-line use-case is: as a game dev, I need to be able to control certain setting values (currently mainly time_speed) to prevent them from being modified by users erlehmann: does this have anything to do with cheating or not? erlehmann: prob mostly aesthetic things ig Warr1024: Aesthetics does play a big part. We like when people try the game, aren't instantly turned off by the visuals, and actually stick around to see the real value in it. We don't need RTX whatever, but at least making sure there aren't e.g. weird visual artifacts would help a lot. Warr1024: In my case, I think if the shadow shader could be force-disabled from the server-side it would probably mitigate this enough for me, actually. Warr1024: I have no complaint about how the shadows work or look, they just aren't applicable in my game because I don't have a traditional skybox with light coming from a single direciton. erlehmann: > We don't need RTX whatever erlehmann: yeah we don't erlehmann: rtx is a griefer erlehmann: Warr1024 aren't the new shadows so buggy that they do not even make it default? Warr1024: They are janky, but I'm used to minetest levels of jank so it didn't really bother me :-D Warr1024: I mean there are limitations, like geometry that's not loaded can't cast a shadow, and there's not an awful lot a shader dev can do about that in reasonable time. Warr1024: As a general principle I think we try not to make things default for their first release unless we have reason to believe that they are better for all players, offer no clear drawbacks, and only acceptable risks. Shadows ARE expensive on the GPU though, so users on high-end rigs can turn them on, but other users may not want sudden unexpected framerate drops... Sokomine: anyone any idea what makes mobs (mobs_redo ones) loose health? AristotIe: I always assumed it was because they glitched into walls and took suffocation damage, but I don't actually know if that's correct Sokomine: aah. yes, i remember what it was...randomly set hp at start AristotIe: oh Julius: would it be possible to enable the news rss feed on the forum? Julius: https://forum.minetest.net/app.php/feed/news Julius: https://forum.minetest.net/feed.php?mode=news Julius: I mean Julius: normally that works on phpbb forums Julius: I would like to add it to our feed aggregator: https://planet.freegamedev.net Julius: if I just use the feed for the news forum directly I also get a feed entry for every comment Sokomine: ooh! a bug Sokomine: er. not here... wwar: Sokomine, the glitching to walls was fixex long time ago, wwar: there is something called light damage, when they are in bright places they lose healtj wwar: Health* wwar: They fixed that glitching bug by making the hitbox a bit taller Sokomine: they're peaceful npc. not sensitive to light wwar: hm.. maybe a mob attacked them? wwar: protector rune does not protect against hostile mobs wwar: Also NPCs never glitched in walls, only small mobs like chicken, parrot or rat MinetestBot: 02[git] 04x2048 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add smooth light-shadow transition at noon (#11430) 13ff2d2a6 https://git.io/J4nGP (152021-07-25T10:35:12Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04random-geek -> 03minetest/minetest: Document glasslikeliquidlevel merge bits (#11479) 135d27cc5 https://git.io/J4nGM (152021-07-25T10:34:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04x2048 -> 03minetest/minetest: Distribute shadow map update over multiple frames to reduce stutter (… 13bf3acbf https://git.io/J4nCo (152021-07-25T10:36:23Z) independent56: is effecitvley the same as #!/usr/bin/perl? sfan5: if you muddy it enough I'm sure the answer could be yes sfan5: but it's in fact no independent56: Makes sense. One is for the browser, and another is for scripts. sfan5: that's not the reason entuland: a bit of a stretch, but you could consider them as "headers" to tell the computer what to do with anything that follows entuland: the first tells the browser to expect a specific variant of the many HTML incarnations, the second tells the computer to pass the rest to a specific program to interpret it independent56: hmm Sublayer plank: for all intents and purposes today it's just a way to tell the browser to render the page in standards compliant mode as compared to quirks mode independent56: hmm AristotIe: my local minetest server hosted by my raspberry pi has this problem where if more than one person joins the server it times out, but my ssh connection stays up. any ideas on what could be causing this? Warr1024: Does the same set of mods and configuration work on any other machine? Crapping out on a second player joining sounds like the kind of behavior I'd expect from a bad mod that was never tested with and doesn't actually work with multiplayer. independent56: simple - different bandiwht requirements. SSH requires like 1 Kb, minetest requires 100mb. independent56: Maybe your server is incapable independent56: (turn off bitcoinminer) AristotIe: well, occasionally after many reboots, you can get 2 people to join and it works, but once those people log out, it goes back to it's normal behavior Warr1024: That bandwidth ratio is pretty insane, I don't think it's that bad for any reasonable content. Though yeah, again, any one bad mod could drastically change what MT actually requires. AristotIe: and I did "ethtool eth0 | grep Speed" and it said 1000Mb/s Warr1024: That doesn't mean that the chip is actually capable of processing and pushing that much data though. independent56: Must be some mod. Maybe you have too much to handle (what my server almost has) AristotIe: hmm, true Warr1024: Best thing to do is monitor resource usage like CPU, RAM, network, I/O, etc. while it's running and see if you can find a bottleneck. AristotIe: hmm, good idea AristotIe: do you know of any terminal based apps that can do that? entuland: "nmon" could do probably AristotIe: hmm, thx entuland: yw AristotIe: ah, if the minetest server is taking 100% of the cpu, it probably has only a small amount of bandwidth left to do 2-300Mb/s erlehmann: > virtual void* ServerThread::run(): A fatal error occurred: String too long for serializeString16 erlehmann: anyone has any idea how this can crap out in server.cpp? erlehmann: like, conceptually erlehmann: what does a too long string represent here? erlehmann: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10981 erlehmann: > String too long for serializeString(16) caused by mod #10981 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10981 -- String too long for serializeString(16) caused by mod erlehmann: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8977 erlehmann: so it seems items with too much meta can trigger this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8977#issuecomment-756870048 Warr1024: If a player is abruptly teleported somewhere very distant on a map, do the mapblocks the player was in immediately before stay active for a little while, or are they immediately frozen? sfan5: IIRC block deactivation happens on a certain interval but it's not long independent56: wow... i never knew scanning was that slow... meh, if it's how companies doit,it must be how i should do it. independent56: Wait... i set resolution toohigh specing: it's not how the companies do it independent56: Wait... what?! how do they turn their paper into bytes? heavy_gale: xerox,… guessing what it might contain ^^ independent56: Once i have scanned the yearbook, i am going to email the PDF to allemailaddresses within. some will be happy to get what they lost back. specing: independent56: they have better equipment than your $100 printer independent56: Ah yeah. independent56: Wow... the information in this yearbook must be so outdated. We left year 6, and i am currently in year 10.my hobbies were "editing, watching vids." Now, they would be "Hobbies: Coding, Sysadmin, and lazing". independent56: All this scanning makes me feel like somearchivsit, which is what i am doing - archiving my past documents independent56: is it better to have dunning-kruger or imposter syndrome? I don't know which one to choose for my mild rocket passion Warr1024: I always go with both. https://xkcd.com/1954/ independent56: Ha independent56: Anyways, i am shook to the core. i ha dphpmyadmin exposed publicly. And i had scans with a huge wordlist. here are some of the words; "donald" "r00t" "confidential". i terrifies me that peoplewoulduse such passwords. specing: pr0 sysadmining independent56: haha. I am deifnately a pro... i definately did not leave my server insecur ewiht theexcuse "i have backups" independent56: Don't pentest... i am backups have rubenwardy: Inside the Box singleplayer mode, when rubenwardy: it's would be so good as a singleplayer, it could use the HTTP API for download/uploading boxes and the leaderboard rubenwardy: you could make it so the singleplayer mode can only download boxes and joining the server is needed to make them, if that is easier BuckarooBanzai: rubenwardy: (relevant) http-only mapgen: https://github.com/blockexchange/blockexchange_mapgen independent56: Yay, both HDDs have a backup now. it only took two hours of rsync idle forthe second one, and 5 hours for the first independent56: mainly because i was fiddling with rsync stuck files independent56: Turns out i was named in some academic paper, i feel so flattered https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6585378/ entuland: uh independent56: i was joking waar: That comic is a bit sus independent56: i broke my comptuer by tring toisntall libc6:i863, and now dpkg won't work. any advice? specing: don't do that Jordach: install gentoo jason1234: jrmu: hi jason1234: we are are nasa g0v server ;) Tim7: ~cdb limboarria independent__: And the worst thing about my ASUS? all the letter rows dont align with the onesabove and below it... oh wait that's all keyboards independent56: i find it funny how apt goes "56 not to upgrade", as a helpful reminder. AndrewYu: Hello! Is there a easy way for an admin to attach to another player? AndrewYu: preferrably while using the cloaking mod or other means of invisibility CWz: i think the shadow command does that Kimapr: AndrewYu: szutil_watch Kimapr: https://gitlab.com/sztest/szutilpack AndrewYu: Okay, I'll look into that beanzilla: Is there a builtin distance calculation? As in I could give it say 2 player positions and get a number of how far away they are from each other? (I've already made my own but I wanted to know if it was already done internally) rubenwardy: vecotr.distance beanzilla: Ah, ok... I figured that, but didn't really know. Thank you. luk3yx: preferrably while using the cloaking mod or other means of invisibility luk3yx: AndrewYu: The cloaking mod adds /shadow AristotIe: is there a version of unified_inventory for minetest 5.1.0? Jonathon: check out a older commit AristotIe: how do you find those, I had that thought, but I can't find a "commits" button AristotIe: ong github btw AristotIe: on* AristotIe: oh, wait, I found it Jonathon: something like https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory/tree/0f756a5d33a5f8fe7c0b7c808fb9e7d0bb6f3eca AristotIe: ah, thx, that's exactly what I was looking for Tim7: Hey guys beanzilla: Does minetest.get_player_by_name() return a specific thing for if the player is offline and/or if the player has never been on the server? GreenXenith: No, it will simply return nil if the player is not online beanzilla: Ok, thank you. Danil_2461: is there a way to make a formspec image not resize when you resize your window so it stays consistant no matter the screen size twoelk: summon a wizard that says "you shall not scale" in a stern voice Warr1024: As I understand it all visual elements in MT can be scaled by the client and this is intentional Danil_2461: holy shit that works!!!!! Danil_2461: jk Danil_2461: is there a way to disable that? Danil_2461: for a formspec Warr1024: It may be possible to make sure things scale consistently, but you can't disallow a user from using accessibility features like GUI scaling or custom fonts. Danil_2461: uh huh Danil_2461: i am going to kill Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/867809704271937566/unknown.png Danil_2461: oops independent__: I am slightly paranoid about a house fire destroying my sentimental documents. is it worth the effort to scan my physical media and back the scans up? Photocpying is wasteful of ink, and i feel that files are much better, celeron55_: there are only two variables when deciding that celeron55_: the worth of the documents, and the likelihood of house fire celeron55_: well, the third variable is the effort independent__: I have never had a house fire. but paper ink fades... maybe in a few decades they will be lost independent__: The effort is taking paper, putting it inside our houshold printer, then scanning. Warr1024: Modern phone cameras are good enough at taking photos that it's a lot faster to capture documents that way than a flatbed scanner, IF you're okay with some distortion. Warr1024: More useful for record keeping than sentimental archival, granted. Warr1024: On the other hand, you can capture images for actual use this way, then buy a decent firesafe to keep the originals. Warr1024: Remember that waterproof may be more important than fireproof in an actual fire, because the damage done by hosing your partially burned house down to quell the last of the embers might actually be worse than the flames themselves. Warr1024: Most modern inks don't fade at an appreciable rate that it's worth worrying about it, unless you're talking like those thermal transfer printouts, or if you're keeping them in the sun. independent__: ah yeah Warr1024: you can stack some books on documents for a day or so to flatten them out and undo creases, if necessary, so long as they don't have sticky stuff on them and aren't all different sizes and shapes. Then see if you can setup a tripod with a camera, possibly a phone camera, and photograph them that way, one at a time. Then store them away in your safe, and you can use the photos you've taken as the "living" copies when you want to access MTDiscord: them, as well as to back them up digitally. independent__: i prefer scanning as it is more consistent. Krock: i prefer spamming as it is more convenient Warr1024: Scanning nets you better quality at higher time cost. That decision is just a matter of cost/benefit. Warr1024: If you got the scanner and you got the patience, go for it. independent__: i will independent__: I am a teen who just left school for the summer holidays. I like the idea of making backups of my personal documents, like old diaries. specing: independent__: get an ADF scanner specing: the one that can fetch paper on its own specing: And make sure to only write documents on A4 pages. Notebooks are difficult to scan automatically independent__: Too much cost for what is not an office, but a one-off experience, dealing with notebooks independent__: *additional independent__: We have a home printer, and that is what i am going to use. specing: independent__: don't have an ADF scanner at school? independent__: I'm not bringing mymost sentimental documents to school, a house of chaos. specing: In uni we had 2 massive copiers for student use, they are A3 sheets for breakfast specing: ate* independent__: Ha, as if we had such machines for public use. Last time ichecked, there was this room with this powster printing machine. I do nto remember any pother machines. sfan5: is your keyboard broken by chance independent__: yes, space is entirely damaged independent__: it's a real pain. specing: I remember when I was a kid, I laptoped on a laptop which had a gpu that I had to reflow once a week specing: you have it easy Warr1024: If these documents are of significant sentimental value and not easily replaced, I'd be wary of entrusting them to some feed mechanism anyway :-) independent__: I remember when my battery was broken on a tablet computer,so i used the warranty. and they destroyed all my data. I forgot what it was after a year. independent__: I hate data loss specing: lol specing: yeah, the first thing they do is factory reset & see if issue goes away independent__: Oh... so i guess i will not give my computer to the ASUS centre, to fix the SSD and what used to be a fan which was noisy (sounded like a car engine at some points). independent__: They may even blame linux for all the issues. specing: make backups independent__: i didnt knosw that in 2017 independent__: i was some... 10 yr old specing: your parents should have independent__: Nah, they're "too busy" for backups. But they would lose their work otherwise DX independent__: I hate youtube. UI am trying to play some music on thesmart tv,and it keeps on deleting my queue because i use the porly designedwbe application. independent__: If it takes it's UI open source, all the issues i have will be fixed within a few weeks. It's the second most used website. Jordach: It’s because google wants you using chromecast Jordach: Again they also want you using android but even their own apps are second fiddle to iOS devices Jordach: For some reason el goog likes to prefer iOS apps over android independent__: still, youyube on my horribly underpowered alcatel 1 phone goes horribly. independent__: And i am using vivaldi... which is not chrome, so i guess this ismy punishment for not lettinggoogle track me. Benrob0329: Vivaldi is a slightly modified chromium Benrob0329: You're basically still using Chrome, just with someone else's proprietary bits Benrob0329: If your device really struggles with YouTube, maybe use NewPipe (Android) or MPV (Linux) independent__: yeah, but vivalidi is a rare exampleof good propietary. independent__: I love it. The propietary UI is worth it Benrob0329: Ehh..it's ok I guess Benrob0329: I'll stick to FF for my everyday web stuff independent__: Ha, i switched to that. but it didn't have native tab groups in the way i use them Warr1024: NewPipe is decent, but YT pulls the rug out from under them often enough that it was useless trying to use the F-Droid version. Benrob0329: "Native Tab Groups" ? Warr1024: I have to get NewPipe updates directly through the app. independent__: And the sidebar is great. i can access my downloads and history through the sidebar. So convineint. Warr1024: FireFox is my middle browser. Benrob0329: >looks Ctrl+H, Ctrl+B, and Tab Containers independent__: Ha, if you go tovivaldi, you wont want to turn back. Benrob0329: I'm not saying that sidebar support couldn't be better, because it could be (there was an addon I had a while back to move tabs w/ containers to the sidebar, but I don't frankly use it enough to care) but the stuff does exist Benrob0329: I used Vivaldi for a while, but I'd rather not continue to make Chrome the only rendering engine on the Web independent__: hmm... yeah, i just prefer vivaldi. Benrob0329: ok independent__: stay with inneficency, i guess :-p Warr1024: 2/3 of my browsers are gecko, 1 is chrome Benrob0329: If I wanted to be efficient, I'd close my web browser, not open it :P independent__: Ha, what if your work is online? I guess you couldhire someone to brute-force ssh to access the server,i guess :-P Cybille: Opera GX Bowser? ... with Sidebar, VPN and GX-Control (CPU/Cache/Network SpeedMeter) ? independent__: Eh, i dislike Opera. it stole vivaldi's UI: https://cdn-production-opera-website.operacdn.com/staticfiles/assets/images/main/home/opera-for-desktop--rebranding@2x.8e7df82b968b.webp independent__: Compromise - i use vivaldi for some, and opera for some independent__: Opera is toned down vivaldi from my shallow research Cybille: Compormise: IE,FF,Chrome, Opera GX (not Opera) ... for better Support and Checks of WebSite Troubles ... Stay Up to Date independent__: XD independent__: another arc... i should plug the charger in first, not the laptop. Jordach: just use safari /s specing: yep independent__ specing: independent__: though that's an indication that there's no fets on the input lines, which means you can probably extract 9-12V of the li-ion battery through the power connector independent__: Oh...what does that mean?whatcan i do with it? specing: idk independent__: Always trust ASUS to cheap out :-P independent__: i guess goodnight. Jordach: asus is a reputable company Jordach: if you want someone who cheaps out rhymes with Hell, Michigan Cybille: Every Company has cheap Things ... Pay more for more better Things, or learn to Mange (Your Money) Jordach: https://tenor.com/view/6m-rain-wallstreet-make-it-rain-gif-8203989 Swift110-mobile: sup folks erlehmann: hey, did any of you ever want to figure out how many packets your mod or game sends without manually tallying up the debug output? i have got something for you, a script that tells you how many packets per second are actually sent: https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/pulls/123/files erlehmann: the reason is that mineclonia inherited a LOT of useless packets from mineclone2 erlehmann: and we are in the process of cleaning that stuff up GNUHacker: is possible get offline player metadata? GNUHacker: I try: GNUHacker: local player = core.get_player_or_load(name) GNUHacker: but GNUHacker: attempt to call field "get_player_or_load" a nil value specing: It's not in the doc GNUHacker: maybe im in wrong minetest version (5.4.1) ? GNUHacker: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9177 GNUHacker: sorry wrong url GNUHacker: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6193 sfan5: the pull request you linked was not merged so the function described there is not available GNUHacker: :c Elvis26: test Krock: test failed successfully MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unused header includes 13850293b https://git.io/JlTIf (152021-07-21T20:07:13Z) Extex: I have a question. player:set_eye_offset for first person, if you put it behind the centre will it rotate around centre with the new offset or will it rotate around that new spot Extex: For example say your player model's head isn't in the centre Extex: Like a sheep or a horse Extex: Oh wait nvm I figured it out beanzilla: What's the best way to obtain the max hp of a player? sfan5: !api MinetestBot: Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt sfan5: let's see MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unused ITextSceneNode header (#11476) 13a049e82 https://git.io/JlT2V (152021-07-21T22:55:20Z) sfan5: player:get_properties().max_hp beanzilla: thank you. beanzilla: I was close. VanessaE: https://imgur.com/f8WDaEm.png the main railyard/train station on my "Traintable" server rubenwardy: Pexin: we can have different defaults for different platforms MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix no locales being generated when APPLY_LOCALE_BLACKLIST=0 136caed70 https://git.io/JWj25 (152021-07-20T15:58:47Z) beanzilla: Hi, for some reason I am having an issue with modstorage... https://pastebin.com/ChhAPVEM <-- Is an example of what I am essentially doing, can anyone give advice on this. (My code is always setting the value, like it never makes it to saving the modstorage) beanzilla: Nevermind I figured out what was happening... I was setting my value instead of giving it the key... thus never correctly working... and not throwing an error. * beanzilla: has confirmed set_string needs key then value... and can't just give it value. DivideByZero: Even if I recreate the doors they disappear again if I leave the area and return. DivideByZero: Half size doors do not seem to be affected. DivideByZero: Tried from a second computer with another version of Minetest also. So, I think it is server related. Perhaps a miss-behaving mod. Jonathon: a/lbm perhaps? DivideByZero: What is that? Jonathon: probably would be a lbm, as thats when loaded DivideByZero: Can you can a quick definition of 'lbm'? Jonathon: a lbm runs every time a part of the map is loaded Jonathon: hence its already loaded, you place a door, unloaded it, reload it, the lbm triggers DivideByZero: WHat does lmb stand for? Is it an acronym? Jonathon: that is my guess Jonathon: LoadingBlockModifier DivideByZero: ok Jonathon: literally search lua_api.txt Jonathon: do you have worldedit on this server? Jonathon: or using linux DivideByZero: So, the doors do already exist so when I place a new door over it, it removes the new door, but not the old door? Jonathon: huh? DivideByZero: I have world edit, haven't used it for awhile now though, and I use Linux for the server and the computer I game from. Jonathon: you said you place a door, unload the area, come back and the door is gone correct? DivideByZero: Well sometimes it's just gone, and other times I see the door for less than a second before it disappears. DivideByZero: That happens on the door to my home often. Jonathon: yeah, slow lbm probably DivideByZero: But I walked around and all other doors are missing or disappearing when I encounter them also. Jonathon: either grep for register_lbm in your mods folder, do //lua minetest.chat_send_all(dump(minetest.registered_lbms)) DivideByZero: How would I fix a slow lbm and get my doors back? Jonathon: and while your at it grep for register_abm in your mods folder, do //lua minetest.chat_send_all(dump(minetest.registered_abms)) DivideByZero: Type this is terminal, or in the game? DivideByZero: in* Jonathon: grep in your terminal, //lua command in game Jonathon: either or will give you a idea of what a/lbms are registered DivideByZero: ok, give me a moment. DivideByZero: And thanks. Jonathon: note, im just guess its probably a a/lbm action the way you describe it, i have no hands on with the issue DivideByZero: I did the two in game commands, where does it dump to? DivideByZero: Not in my log Jonathon: chat DivideByZero: Nothing appeared on the chat screen either Jonathon: default key binding f10 will open chat larger DivideByZero: Yes, but still it gave no output, though it registered the command issued DivideByZero: Do I need some debug setting enabled first? Jonathon: no Jonathon: what game are you using? DivideByZero: Minetest default with a bunch of mods added. Jonathon: even stock mtg gives me a output Jonathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/866496645037817876/unknown.png DivideByZero: Yeah, I didn't get anything like that on my screen/ DivideByZero: Want a screenshot? Jonathon: sure DivideByZero: I'm on IRC, i'll have to link it to a image site. Jonathon: yeah, fine DivideByZero: WHat's a new alternative to tinypic? It's dead now. Jonathon: imgur? DivideByZero: https://imgur.com/a/4dIWskB Jonathon: im not seeing anything at that link DivideByZero: Hmm, let me try again Jonathon: ok DivideByZero: That website wasn't working for me for some reason, but try this one: https://postimg.cc/yJ1m8MJL Jonathon: looks like you have some sort of mod sending debug to chat? DivideByZero: Yes. Jonathon: what mod is it? DivideByZero: Just for the admin accounts. Makes it easier when installing mods to check for errors and such. DivideByZero: Um.. I'll have to check, I'll get back to you on that shorly. DivideByZero: szutil_logtrace: Allow privileged players to monitor server debug trace in chat. Part of this mod: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Warr1024/szutilpack/ Jonathon: ok, try toggling that off, and then running the //lua command DivideByZero: ok DivideByZero: rebooting the minetest server, it takes a few minutes. DivideByZero: I don't put the word 'do' in do it? I did from the // Jonathon: //lua minetest.chat_send_all(dump(minetest.registered_lbms)) DivideByZero: Yeah, that's what I did. Ok, waiting to retry withou the szutil DivideByZero: Even without that mod I am getting no output. DivideByZero: I did /mods, to make sure it's not loaded too. Jonathon: what is it doing now? DivideByZero: Nothing. I did see some output about an error for each of those commands on the console. DivideByZero: Server: ProcessData(): PacketError: what=String too long DivideByZero: For both commands, that same error. Jonathon: ah, to many a/lbms DivideByZero: Oh. From so many mods? Jonathon: minetest.chat_send_all can only handle so long of strings DivideByZero: That makes sense. Jonathon: you can always grep your mod directory DivideByZero: Can you give the full grep command I need to use? Jonathon: grep -r register_abm MOD_DIR_PATH Jonathon: grep -r register_lbm MOD_DIR_PATH DivideByZero: And do this from the mods folder, correct? Jonathon: swap MOD_DIR_PATH for your mods path Jonathon: well, anywhere DivideByZero: If I do it from the mods folder do I still need to specify a path? Jonathon: no DivideByZero: ok it's processing and I'm getting output. DivideByZero: Should I be looking for something particular in this output, or put it on pastebin so you can see the output from each command? Jonathon: this will give you a output of what mods register a/lbms DivideByZero: I see lots of them. DivideByZero: I don't know how to spot a misbehaving one though. DivideByZero: It looks like a big list with no extra data about it. Jonathon: hmm, im thinking how to dump the whole abm from grep DivideByZero: ok. Thanks, I will wait for your next suggestion. DivideByZero: PS: The only door mod I have is 'Doors Redo' by TenPlus1, and I haven't had any issues with it in the past, but it could be a possibility. DivideByZero: His code usually seems pretty well done though. Jonathon: //lua for _, bt in pairs(minetest.registered_lbms) do for _, item in pairs(bt.nodenames) do if string.find(item, "door") then minetest.chat_send_all(bt.mod_origin) break end end end Jonathon: try that from in game Jonathon: terrible code, but your only running it once DivideByZero: ok Jonathon: that will give you a dump of mods that use string door in there nodenames category of lbms DivideByZero: it listed 'doors' multiple times, and then ended with an error: Jonathon: oh? Jonathon: ...the error is? DivideByZero: WorldEdit -!- code error: (load):1: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got string) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome DivideByZero: Sorry took me a few seconds, had to type it out manually. Jonathon: oh yeah, heh Jonathon: i could work around that, but it be even longer DivideByZero: I'm willing to try. Thanks for volunteering your time to assist. Jonathon: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/doors/src/master/init.lua#L293-L332 is the only l/abm doors redo uses, which odesnt say anything about air Jonathon: *doesnt DivideByZero: That one didn't show up in the last command I did, just `doors`. (Which is the default doors, isn't it?) DivideByZero: But if may have got that error before it finished. Jonathon: doors redo claims to be doors from a code standpoint, just as farming redo claims to be farming DivideByZero: it* DivideByZero: Oh, ok. Jonathon: im curious how a nodenames is not a table DivideByZero: Should I try to disable doors redo? Unfortunately I lost most of my doors now anyways. Jonathon: because according to lua_api.txt it should be a table always DivideByZero: The error looks like it's from WorldEdit and not Minetest itself. Perhaps WorldEdit has an error in it? Jonathon: well, you can try disabling it and seeing what happens, you may end up with some unknown nodes, but nothing re enabling shouldnt fix Jonathon: the error is worldedit complaining about a error in my lua code rather than crashing DivideByZero: Oh, I also have a shared locks mod, which could possinly affect doors also, since it adds locks to certain doors (not the ones I've been using though that are disappearing.) DivideByZero: And I see Home Decor pack adds something for doors too. DivideByZero: `doors_and_gates` DivideByZero: And Mesecons has mesecons_doors (but I don't think I've used any of those either) Jonathon: //lua for _, bt in pairs(minetest.registered_lbms) do if type(bt.nodenames) == "table" then for _, item in pairs(bt.nodenames) do if string.find(item, "door") then minetest.chat_send_all(bt.mod_origin) break end end else minetest.chat_send_all("it is " .. type(bt.nodenames)) end end DivideByZero: While I'm waiting if you give a longer command, I'm going to see what happens if I disable Doors Redo DivideByZero: Oh, I'll do your command first then. Jonathon: i included a debug string to tell us what type nodenames is when it errors Jonathon: hence the it is .. type DivideByZero: I got a longer list this time, and WorldEdit reported success. DivideByZero: Do you need to see the list? Jonathon: uh, what besides doors is in it? DivideByZero: `it is string` x3, castle, xpanes, `mtg_plus` x4, ethereal, `homedecor_doors_and_gates` x12, palm, oak, maple, larch, clementinetree, chestnuttree, birch, ?? DivideByZero: Larch door is one of the doors that disapears. Jonathon: what the heck is a larch door? DivideByZero: I used that door on my home. Jonathon: aka, what mod provides it? DivideByZero: Kind of like a barn looking door but with different handles. DivideByZero: mod_larch Jonathon: never heard of that mod Jonathon: do you know what that mod is? Jonathon: well, can you post a screenshot from game of you pointing at the door with f5(debug) on? DivideByZero: I tried a different door though and it still disapeared, glass door, which I think is a default one. DivideByZero: I'm not sure which mod it was part of, perhaps MoreTrees? DivideByZero: I'll try to do that screenshot. Jonathon: is it doing it for all doors, or only select doors? DivideByZero: https://postimg.cc/N9CGHzg8 DivideByZero: All of them I believe, let me run around and check a couple more. DivideByZero: Locked doors, half doors, and some very basic doors were not affected, but most of the nicer looking doors I used are now gone. DivideByZero: Was that screenshot any help? Jonathon: i was refering to placing the door and pointing at it, so i could see it, as well as its node name DivideByZero: oh ok DivideByZero: I'll do another one. Jonathon: basically, i wnt this Jonathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/866514795632787476/unknown.png Jonathon: *want DivideByZero: https://postimg.cc/XpSqctfx DivideByZero: Yup, I got that in this shot. Jonathon: so ok, thats a door from cool trees DivideByZero: Ok. Jonathon: and some mods from it came up in lbms Jonathon: well, let me go read its code DivideByZero: Ok, thank you very much. Jonathon: actually screw that, ill grep it. Jonathon: nothing that would indicate removal there DivideByZero: ok DivideByZero: As long as I stay near the door, like while looking at it, it doesn't disapear. Jonathon: do you use worldmods, or world.mt to enable your mods? DivideByZero: world.mt Jonathon: well, i was trying to avoid this, want to upload it to some pastebin site? DivideByZero: Sure. DivideByZero: pastebin.com/91BwCkmf Jonathon: homedecor does convert doors, but it does not remove them DivideByZero: So that one shouldn't be my issue then? Jonathon: well ok, nothing stands out to me, and i dont relish reading through all of these DivideByZero: I do have quite a few mods loaded. But they all added fun to the game or some other benefit. Jonathon: correct https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/homedecor_modpack/-/blob/master/homedecor_doors_and_gates/init.lua#L752-772 DivideByZero: A bunch of others I had tried and they either didn't work or I didn't like them, and they are disabled (false) DivideByZero: Something you want me to read at that link? Jonathon: i just linked the lbm it uses for doors DivideByZero: ok Jonathon: idk, ima say ask someone else, its late and i dont have much more time to look at this, sorry DivideByZero: I see the code, but nothing stuck out at me. :D DivideByZero: Ok, no problem, you already put in quite a bit of time to it, so thank you for that. It is appreciated. Jonathon: np DivideByZero: Have a good night. Jonathon: ty DivideByZero: :) DivideByZero: Seems my issue has to do with the `Doors Redo` mod by TenPlus1, I reported the error to his git page: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/doors/issues/3 DivideByZero: With the mod disabled the doors no longer disappear. Bombo: is there a reason why mt doesn't support mysql or mariadb? i guess i have to install postgresql too just for mt specing: hopefully because they suck sfan5: lack of interest sfan5: people who don't care use sqlite, people who do use postgres sfan5: I once wrote a mariadb backend fwiw https://github.com/sfan5/minetest/tree/db_mysql Bombo: mkay thx Bombo: i just noticed the HD is making noises while we are playing Bombo: so it would probably be better to use postgres or maria i think Bombo: and faster i hope? Bombo: faster like in: the world builds up faster as i walk around ;) sfan5: a dedicated db server might cache stuff in RAM but so will your OS if you use sqlite, not really that much different sfan5: for speed try with sqlite_synchronous = 0 in your minetest.conf sfan5: (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/stable-5/minetest.conf.example#L1512) sfan5: sorry, sqlite_synchronous = 1 actually Bombo: mkay it sounds just like every 3 or so seconds it does something on hd Bombo: will try that Bombo: still much happening on the hd Bombo: and flying dragons are stuttering worse than m-m-max headroom Bombo: trying with sqlite_synchronous = 0 now Bombo: now it's pretty silent, but i guess minetest server is frozen, can't connect and 100% cpu heh Bombo: hm i moved too fast Bombo: it's really faster, let's hope nothing crashes hehe Pexin: flying dragon crashes? Bombo: no the server Pexin: flying dragon crashes Pexin: needs wing in cast for 5 weeks Bombo: well it almost did, it was flying away, me following, until the world's end, then the server froze Bombo: and no beer Bombo: it was flying at one spot, the new blocks weren't loading Pexin: end of ze world Warr1024: "flying dragon crashes" ... now I'm imagining dragons in today's world, populations devastated by towerkill... Bombo: will come soon :)( Bombo: my 9yo niece asked me if we can build a dragon in real world, i said 'sure' Pexin: build it genetically! Bombo: or half robot half animal half pterodactyl Pexin: haha, when I was a kid, my cousin and I wanted to build a transformer. specifically mirage (I'm old) our uncle was interested in helping but was confused about where the pilot sits when in robot form. us kids were confused about what a gear shift does. Pexin: shocking newsflash: that project did not happen Bombo: heh Pexin: oh, and if you really want to know what it's like to meet a dragon, watch a cat torment a mouse. then Be The Mouse. Pexin: done Bombo: we could tame the dragon by feeding it cats :) jonadab: It's hard to imagine a dragon actually *eating* a cat (really, really doesn't seem worth it), but I can readily imagine a dragon tormenting a cat. VanessaE: how do clickable links work in MT? I git pulled a couple of days ago, and I've enabled the setting, but they're still not clickable in either the F10 or "T" dropdowns, or when visible in the recent chat (provided I hit ESC so that it releases the mouse pointer) VanessaE: (this is Linux, if that matters, and the system default browser is Chrome) Krock: shift+click or middle click specing: VanessaE: let me tell you a secret: patch mt so that chat is sent to stdout/file, then click links in terminal :P VanessaE: Krock: nope. VanessaE: specing: normally I'd see them in my servers' IRC also. :) VanessaE: so really, the feature isn't useful for me, but I'd still like to make sure I can let others know how to use it. specing: VanessaE: not PMs, no VanessaE: ok, there's that. Pexin: VanessaE: can also get to the setting from settings tab at main menu Pexin: are links blue? Pexin: are you using freetype? VanessaE: the links are not specially-colored. freetype... um. you know, I'm not sure if that's compiled-in * VanessaE: checks VanessaE: yep. it's in there. Pexin: just to be thorough: the setting takes effect after restarting MT, and links must start with http:// or https:// VanessaE: I restarted it after changing that setting Pexin: (I have no idea how/if non freetype might affect it) VanessaE: wait VanessaE: maybe I didn't * VanessaE: checks again VanessaE: (I might have only exited to the menu) VanessaE: AAHHH VanessaE: they're blue and work on middle-click now Pexin: otay :] VanessaE: shift-left-click does not work though Pexin: ctrl VanessaE: noted Pexin: 2 reasons it's not enabled by default. 1. i had considered it "experimental" and just never changed my mind. 2. it does nothing for touchscreen users and I'm still not quite sure how it may affect performance on cheap tablets. VanessaE: well on cheap tabs MT doesn't work well anyway, not on a real server anyway :) Pexin: i've only tried on a tablet once. _barely_ worked in singleplayer vanilla. on a server, it took forever to load then crashed out Pexin: but it was android 4.4 VanessaE: well, the android version doesn't much matter, so much as the hardware, and with "cheap" usually comes weak hardware VanessaE: that said, when I tried it once, MT worked just kinda okay-ish on my Galaxy S4 running 4.4. about as I'd expect for a phone independent56: haha the UK government hates RAR so much they made an article guiding you on it independent56: oh wait... it's a different context :-/ independent56: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-rehabilitation-activity-requirement-in-probation/rar-guidance If you truly arecurious. jonadab: Has anybody seen a situation wherein the Minetest client only updates any of the contents of its window, when the user switches away to another window and back? jonadab: I'm seeing this on a mostly-stock Win10 system that I'm using temporarily as a stand-in until I get my real computer up and running. jonadab: Happens everywhere: in the menus when the client starts, and also when in the game. The entire visual content of the window is completely static except when switching out of the window and back. rubenwardy: when did you last restart? Weird graphics issues like this often happen when not restarting for ages rubenwardy: otherwise, no idea Warr1024: I've similarly seen that kind of behavior, but it was a long time ago and not minetest-related, and I seem to remember restarting probably fixed it. Warr1024: either that or I was doing something weird in the first place and just not doing the weird thing resolved it :-) jonadab: rubenwardy: It's Windows 10. It was last restarted the last time Windows Updates forcibly restarted it, which was quite recently (I think about a week ago). jonadab: If there's any way to prevent 10 from doing that, I have not discovered it. jonadab: However, I can try restarting again. I mean, it's a Windows system, frequent restarting is just something you learn to live with, and it's not like I'm gonna lose a bunch of screen sessions or something. jonadab: Restarted Windows. No difference. Oh well. Not a big deal, I'll just wait until I get my real computer up and running. Hopefully soon. Going to dd the filesystem onto the new drive tomorrow and go from there. rubenwardy: have you changed any settings? rubenwardy: if you look at the minetest.conf, you'll see the changes settings rubenwardy: What's the renderer? On Minetest 5.4, you can see it by going to Mainmenu > About, and seeing the bottom left rubenwardy: In older versions, it's in the Window title jonadab: rubenwardy: No, this was a system that had never previously had Minetest on it, so no settings had been changed. jonadab: They were just whatever the defaults are. Warr1024: Does Windows actually have a sane default for the renderer? jonadab: I don't see an About option in the main menu. There's a Credits tab, but I don't see anything about the renderer there. jonadab: This is Minetest 5.4.1 rubenwardy: Huh, maybe that was a 5.5.0 thing rubenwardy: Have a look at the window title rubenwardy: It should say [OpenGl something jonadab: Window title says "Minetest 5.4.1 [Main Menu]" Jonathon: you have to actually be playing Jonathon: the main menu will not rell you Jonathon: *tell Jonathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/866155388407644190/unknown.png jonadab: Actually playing is not really possible under these circumstances. Warr1024: Maybe a 5.5.0 thing, but definitely a making too many assumptions about my fonts and not fitting thing. Warr1024: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/866155534456586260/unknown.png Warr1024: All other tabs look fine with those font settings, it's only that one that's messed up. Warr1024: To be "actually playing" all you really have to do is launch it with the --go command line option (possible some others) so it loads a world. Warr1024: I guess you may have to navigate the menus well enough to create a world. jonadab: Ok, so if I "Start Game", F5, and alt-tab out and back in, the top left says "Minetest 5.4.1 | FPS: 28 | drawtime: 3ms | dtime jitter: 82.7% | view range: 190 | RTT: 1.00ms jonadab: But the actual number of FPS is limited to however many times I can alt-tab out and back in per second, which is less than useful. Jonathon: you have debug open in the game Jonathon: im talking about the application bar Jonathon: same place you read "Minetest 5.4.1 [Main Menu]" jonadab: Oh, the title bar. jonadab: Minetest 5.4.1 [OpenGL 4.4.0] Jonathon: yeah jonadab: It's fine, I am not normally a Windows user anyway, this is a very temporary setup. jonadab: I will just wait until I get my computer set up correctly and then worry about it. Warr1024: Yeah, OpenGL 4.4 doesn't sound suspicious to me. Could be a driver issue, but yeah, could be not worth worrying about at this point :-) jonadab: At which point I'll have things like gdb and the ability to compile Minetest myself if I want. jonadab: Which is not something I would care to attempt on Windows. jonadab: I just asked because I figured maybe it was a common issue and there was a stock solution to it. Warr1024: I discovered catchsegv and now I run MT under it all the time, just in case I catch an obscure crash :-D jonadab: Is that better than just turning core dumps on? Warr1024: It's like gdb but only the few parts I actually ever learned how to use :-D jonadab: Ah. jonadab: I see. Warr1024: Presumably a core dump is more thorough, but catchsegv or dumps from gdb are more human-readable. jonadab: Yes, I mainly only use gdb to get a backtrace. jonadab: One of the NetHack4 devs taught me how. Warr1024: Heh, I learned it hunting my first MT crash bug, something involving menus or something way back in the day Warr1024: or rather I learned how to use like 3 or 4 commands jonadab: Yeah, bt (backtrace) is the main one I know. I can do a couple of other things, like examine the value of a particular variable if I want. jonadab: But backtrace is the main thing I can do with gdb that I can't do with printf() jonadab: (And bugs in NH4 are extremely reproducible, consistently, because of the way the save system works. Basically, if you encounter a bug, you ipso facto have a save file that will reproduce it reliably.) jonadab: (This would likely not be possible for a real-time game like Minetest, but NetHack is turn-based.) Warr1024: I guess it also depends on how much of the complete state of the program is represented in the save files and how much is not. Warr1024: MT for example uses RNG and doesn't store RNG seeds in the world for all things, so you'd get different behavior on retries. Warr1024: Actually I think mapgen determinism was only fixed recently, things like dungeons and decorations used to be similar but not the same in repeated worlds of the same seed... AristotIe: if anyone is farmiliar with tubelib_addons1, is there a way to add crops to the list that the harvester harvests? specing: yupusure there is specing: see how bls does it AristotIe: where do I find that specific copy of the mod though? specing: bls_custom AristotIe: hmm, when I try to replicate the code in bls_custom to add crops, it gives me this error: "...inetest/games/minetest_game/mods/mp_custom/harvester.lua:2: attempt to index global 'tubelib_addons1' (a nil value)" that's the line `local tn = tubelib_addons1.register_tree_node` Krock: don't put custom mods into minetest_game/ y5nw: Have you set mod dependencies correctly? AristotIe: mmm, well, I haven't made a depends.txt file, but I thought that was just for convinience AristotIe: here's the full code btw `if not minetest.get_modpath("tubelib_addons1") then return end AristotIe: local tn = tubelib_addons1.register_tree_node AristotIe: local fn = tubelib_addons1.register_farming_node AristotIe: if minetest.get_modpath("cucina_vegana") then AristotIe: fn("cucina_vegana:rosemary_6", "cucina_vegana:rosemary 2", "cucina_vegana:rosemary_1") AristotIe: fn("cucina_vegana:flax_6", "cucina_vegana:flax_raw 2", "cucina_vegana:flax_1") AristotIe: boy wow, never knew that kiwiirc sends multi-line messages as a bunch of different messages sfan5: there are no multi-line messages on IRC sfan5: that's why AristotIe: oh. specing: AristotIe: https://matrix.to/#/#minetest:libera.chat?via=libera.chat if you want a richer experience Krock: FWIW, commands in IRC are separated by newline Warr1024: Be aware that the Matrix bridges are still in a bit of a state of upheaval and they do still sometimes miss messages, or perhaps delay them indefinitely. specing: nah, they work fine Warr1024: :trollface: Warr1024: For the most part they actually do work okay, but there are a few cases, like the MT bots in VanessaE's servers chat that only get relayed to the Matrix side for a couple minutes or something after they restart. Benrob0329: Matrix having a "richer experience" entirely depends on what Matrix client and what IRC client you use Jonathon: the matrix <> liberia bridge also has uptime issues specing: liberia hmm Jonathon: *libera Krock: libery Krock: library Jordach: all bots on libera seem to have uptime issues sfan5: clear sign you should just come to irc ;) wsor4035: irc is still meh Jordach: no even my bouncer fails that sfan5 Jordach: it disconnects after a day due to wank dns queries Jordach: freenode did it too sfan5: haven't seen that here Warr1024: No chat network is any better than any other, but all chat networks are each worse than all others. Krock: wise words. I'll print that on a t-shirt x_: i'll take 10 DivideByZero: I've been experiencing doors disapearing right before my eyes on my server. Is this any known bug/symptom, and/or has anyone had this issue before? DivideByZero: Lambs blood on the door knob won't do? AndrewYu: Epic blocks do not check privs in epic command blocks for kick and ban independent56: I'm on the train back home and haha the dual carriageway is pathetic. This is why i use trains and not cehicles on the server. AndrewYu: xD\ independent56: Iam back home.i travveled a distance equivlent to birmingham-london. independent56: This guy is celeron56, doing what c55 did back in the 10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLbzPQoHkXI MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: CSM: Do not index files within hidden directories 1340bee27 https://git.io/JWMqH (152021-07-17T14:44:06Z) minty4329049203: woahhhh gnarly fatalerror420: that's like totally rad dude fatalerror420: like super nar-nar fatalerror420: physically revolting at what i said IvanGorinich: Hello guys! i have roleplay server in minetest IvanGorinich: but i have zero online IvanGorinich: becouse i havent IP adress or domain in clearnet IvanGorinich: can anybody help me please IvanGorinich: i wanna build full roleplay server Warr1024: The MT server list software is open source and anyone can download and self-host it. An alternate server list URL can be configured in settings in each client. * specing: roleplays a real IP address Krock: you have an IP address of your server unless your ISP puts you behind some NAT which makes port-forwarding kinda difficult specing: Krock: they are behind cgnat Krock: aah okay Krock: VPS in that case Warr1024: I've seen some success using the yggdrasil overlay network Warr1024: unfortunately there aren't a ton of players on yggdrasil and it's a pretty big pain to setup for average users Warr1024: You can get a VPS yourself to run your server Warr1024: you could also pool resources with friends to get a very cheap VPS just to act as a forwarder with an IP address, then use wireguard or something to connect to it and forward ports, so you can self-host. Warr1024: you may be able to get someone with a VPS to provide you with an open port via forwarding over VPN, but some kind of trust relationship will need to be involved because the person with the VPS has certain content requirements they'll have to meet with their provider. Kelp: Okay I am back. Kelp: I opened up a pop os live session and in it I get 75 fps Kelp: But on my kde neon installation i only get 50 Kelp: Makes no sense Warr1024: Could be a GPU-compositing WM that's interfering with 3D apps? Jordach: is this singleplayer or multiplayer Jordach: i have a sneaky feeling Swift110-mobile: hey rndusr: hi Andrew: When can minetest have a stable forum? independent56: Ahaha i had a compound dream where i went into LEO a few times, told minetest IRC about this achivement and "yeah, it might have been a dream though", and then i woke up from that dream. BuckarooBanzai: Andrew: when the old one dies ;) independent56: thats wy there were DDOS attacks! independent56: i found the phrase "WordPress Developers will drive you down a dark path of coding & customization" in some article. It is aimed at sma buisness owners. "dark path" shouldn't have been used. Wuzzy: I really like world-aligned textures: https://satoshiupload.com/images/wX8kIHY46H.png Wuzzy: its all the same node sfan5: neat Wuzzy: Hades Revisited 0.10.0 is here! https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=397361#p397361 Miniontoby2: Hey Miniontoby2: So there is a mod by cheapie called digiscreen and he made a lua script to convert image to table and i tried to make it python Miniontoby2: but i dont understand why io.write is being used without opening a file Miniontoby2: (Script: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/cheapie/e4edc2ea274750c235c984d972703803/raw/5406950a90b73260051784f79b4acab86bc204f0/image2table.lua ) Miniontoby2: Can someone explain me what the io.write does in this script??? sfan5: it writes to standard output, so the console Miniontoby2: So does thay mean it just prints it Miniontoby2: So io.write -> print Miniontoby2: Or not? Miniontoby2: Or am i misunderstanding this? sfan5: yes Miniontoby2: Yes, what?? Correct or incorrect?? Miniontoby2: I guess that ypu mean im correct but im not sure SwissalpS: io.write prints to std out as sfan5 said. Not sure what you mean with "io.write -> print", maybe "io.write prints to std out" ? Miniontoby2: I meaned can i replace io.write with print? Miniontoby2: Because as i said i am rewriting the code to python SwissalpS: mostly yes, but doesn't python also have io.write that can also be used to write to other destinations than std out Miniontoby2: But is it possible? Because i dont want to make it more difficult than it is rn Miniontoby2: Python may error on it if i dont open file SwissalpS: well, this is a Minetest channel, most ppl here use lua, you may want to ask python specific questions on a python channel :) Miniontoby2: Py sscript ik how to run, but lua i dont so thats why (and NO i dont want to learn it) SwissalpS: they would know the details better Miniontoby2: Oke but so you say i can try replace it sfan5: just try and see if it works Miniontoby2: Oke thx for the help Miniontoby2: Bye Kelp: It's singleplayer @Jordach but it also is low in multiplayer Wuzzy: So, Hades Revisited ... if you played this before, feel free to ASK ME ANYTHING specing: Hi Wuzzy. Nice to see that it is NOT on monopolyhub :) Wuzzy: hahaha specing: Wuzzy: is it meant to be singleplayer only? Wuzzy: for now, yes Wuzzy: multiplayer is not tested Wuzzy: i dont have a real concept for multiplayer anyway. protection is ignored as well... Wuzzy: i think it will work OK if you play with people who are "on your side" i.e. dont intend to grief ;)... but agian, not tested specing: Wuzzy: Hmm, I was thinking about a concept of a base-less Minetest game specing: no area protections whatsoever specing: Everything you own is stored in your inventory, or in portable chests Wuzzy: you've just reinvented the concept of anarchy servers lol Wuzzy: that's basically Minecraft which also has zero protection by default specing: Nah, by "anarchy server" I understand that they still have area protection, but are just unmoderated specing: /with few, if any, rules Wuzzy: thats not what i meant specing: Wuzzy: But imagine that you could pack groups of nodes into bunches, which you could deploy. Like digtrons Wuzzy: hmm specing: so you'd have a temporary unprotected base whenever you want, and pack it before you go Wuzzy: i dont think ill add digtrons to the game. too complex and wont really fit the game style anyway specing: ehh, digtrons are simple. But they are 1000% overpowered Wuzzy: Oh, i DO plan tools of overpower 😉 for fast terraforming specing: and I wasn't suggesting to add them or to change your game Wuzzy: its ok specing: Was just thinking aloud about a new concept with temporary bases specing: You could craft a "node crate" that carriers up to N nodes (craft more to carry more?). And you'd punch several nodes with this carrier to crate them specing: Well, you'd punch a single node, and it would crate them all specing: (and you'd somehow tell it which ones to crate) Warr1024: Re: approaches to area protection: in NodeCore we generally don't bother with these (external mods are supported but rarely used), the game is just hard enough that learning how to grief takes too much work for the average griefer, and it's PvE-focused enough that we rarely have issues. :-D Warr1024: Ironically I'm planning on anti-protection features. There's a mod that prevents players from taking their inventory with them when they leave the game (nc_yctiwy) and I'm planning on integrating it into the base game. Wuzzy: thats the most absurd mod name I have every seen. 😆 Warr1024: You Can't Take It With You Warr1024: There's an absurder one: You Can't Touch It Either by Avicennia. independent56: Haha see whilst you can, PHP being horrible: http://www.menestralia.es independent56: (a big php error for some sysadmin to fix) twoelk: the "under Zero" aka unternull game based servers of the all-water worlds sometimes had a nothing protected you loose everything on disconect policy independent56: I dislike GNU's article on "free software is not Open Source". it is insane, bashing open source, and saying "nah, stay away from propietary software", Matlab is propietary, but it's brilliant. propiatary software is important to keep software a buisness and not just some hobby. independent56: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html * Pexin: mutters "capitalist" specing: > propiatary software is important to keep software a buisness and not just some hobby. specing: yeah, no specing: I dislike both terms: "free software" and "open source". I prefer "libre software" myself specing: free software makes people think it's free as in gratis specing: "open source" has no philosophy attached mrkubax10: How to grant privilege to someone on minetestserver? Method on wiki involves auth.txt which doesn't exist beanzilla: /grant someone priv beanzilla: If you know the priv that is. Krock: join with the admin account mrkubax10: Yeah I know but no one have privilege to grant to others (new server) GNUHacker: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html mrkubax10: Krock: you mean admin username? Krock: @mrkubax10: specify "name = mrkubax10" in mientest.conf Krock: this way your name will have admin rights mrkubax10: i will try twoelk: maybe the server admin needs to do "/grantme all" Krock: twoelk: first you must become a server admin Krock: that's where we're at mrkubax10: Krock: thanks it worked Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! independent56: is it just me or does libreoffice suck? I like google docs, but it isn't powerful enough, and microsoft office costs as well as being owned by microsoft. twoelk: is there actually a command to list all possible privs of a world in contrast to listing just the ones the player actually has? specing: it does specing: independent56: use LaTeX independent56: Hmm... i'm scared of the ddg image results tbh specing: ? Kelp: independent56: Try ONLYOFFICE Krock: onlyoffice is re-styled libreoffice twoelk: abiword is ok for just writing, duno what platforms it works on though independent56: https://www.onlyoffice.com/en/download-desktop.aspx There is no linux download and it is propietary. i only use propietary if i absolutely have to. Krock: hmm weird. I might be wrong MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add wallmounted support for plantlike and plantlike_rooted nodes (#11… 13f4d8cc0 https://git.io/JWzm3 (152021-07-15T19:19:59Z) sfan5: independent56: what are you missing from libreoffice? independent56: (unrelated) In fact, i use protonmail (propietary sofftware). it works fine. i dislike how gnu says "oh grr propietary software. Despite it making money and feeding some of our developers, grr". independent56: I miss stuff like really intelligent spellchecking (privacy not included), and all the keybaord shortcuts i learnt, and the alt+/ for quickly doing what you like. Kelp: Protonmail isn't proprietary independent56: haha yeah, is hould do some basic ddg before i assume. but brilliant! independent56: it's not free, but it's open source, so brilliant! independent56: phew, no php! Wuzzy: wallmounted plantlike nodes just dropped! https://satoshiupload.com/images/SKaf2dOXs0.png Wuzzy: *happy Wuzzy noises* Krock: on spot jluc: :-D specing: Wuzzy: it looks ... weird...to say the least Wuzzy: hehe Wuzzy: just messing around with MTG Wuzzy: could also be useful for corals or wall crystals Wuzzy: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17455197/120680769-0226bc00-c49b-11eb-95db-b351aa23c7ba.mp4 Wuzzy: (↑ not from my code but looks basically the same) independent56: yay! i will totally use this! Kelp: Wuzzy is cool Bombo: hi, is there a way to get the location of a 'LuaEntitySAO' somehow? in game as admin or digging in the sqlite in bash? Bombo: i'm missing a draconis:ice_dragon :) Bombo: i mean ;( Wuzzy: good question, i wish i knew ... :/ sfan5: there is a way to do this GreenXenith: If youve got worldedit, //lua for _, e in pairs(minetest.luaentities) do if e.name == "draconis:ice_dragon" then minetest.chat_send_player("yourname", minetest.pos_to_string(e.object:get_pos())) end end sfan5: ^ assuming the entity is currently loaded GreenXenith: Also arent luaentities stored in a plaintext file? You could just grep that? GreenXenith: or is that a legacy thing sfan5: entities were never stored in a plaintext file GreenXenith: Might also be pipeworks thing GreenXenith: be a* Wuzzy: the real question is how to get a list of all entities, loaded or not ... Warr1024: Mapblocks are probably zlib compressed, but after decompression you could likely just search for the name string occurring somewhere inside the binary data and you probably don't have to worry too much about false positives Warr1024: The simplest answer is to use the full version of the "clearobjects" command and then you will know there are zero. GreenXenith: There should really be an object cache GreenXenith: Having to parse the entire thing whenever you need to get a list of existing entities is slow sfan5: when do you ever need to do that? GreenXenith: Clearobjects GreenXenith: And in this case GreenXenith: where someone wants to find a specific entity instance GreenXenith: its a common thing to do in games that we cant do in Minetest GreenXenith: Would be trivial enough to roll your own cache though sfan5: clearobjects does not require doing that Bombo: nice, but i tried the //lua line but i get 'Newlines are not permitted in chat' GreenXenith: Then remove any newlines you accidentally copied Bombo: strange, there is no newline sfan5: at the end? Bombo: nope Bombo: maybe minetest.chat_send_player tries to print newlines? Bombo: hm this works //lua minetest.chat_send_player("bombo", "hi\nthere") Warr1024: Maybe after this ordeal is over you'll remember to get your ice dragons spayed or neutered, and possibly microchipped. Warr1024: Real talk, a mob microchipping mod that allows you to teach selected ents via modstorage or something might be useful to prevent this sorta thing. * twoelk: deletes his similar thought and muses on learning to type faster Bombo: ok sorry got it, indeed a cp fail Bombo: Warr1024: great idea :) Bombo: there is a dragon teleport gem, but even that doesn't work sometimes Bombo: so this is the prob now 21:59 ^ assuming the entity is currently loaded GreenXenith: Theres a reason pipeworks has its own entity file Bombo: i took a look into the map.sqlite it has just lots of binary blobs Bombo: Mapblocks are probably zlib compressed <- you mean these? so i could 'just' unzip each block then :) Warr1024: Possibly yeahh Warr1024: I mean it's sort of likely they're headerless, so straight up command line gzip might not do it Warr1024: but if you can decompress them, you should find a binary blob that you can't necessarily parse, but you probably CAN grep for long enough strings Warr1024: like the entity's full name (draconis:ice_dragon) would probably appear somewhere within the decompressed data if there's one in that mapblock somewhere Warr1024: then you can calculate coordinates from the mapblock index, teleport there, and use //lua or whatever to find the exact spot Bombo: hm how to calc the coordinates, i see pos = 33517557 for example sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/world_format.txt#L242 Bombo: nice * CWz: wonders what would happen if he would register a priv called 'all' and then did /grantme all entuland: can't see any checks to prevent that entuland: reading this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/8cc04e0cb4fb186092732c7687543f67b4628c96/builtin/game/chat.lua#L236 you'd end up with a privilege which can only be added / removed along with all the others robyndrake: and I do have load_mod_screwdriver = true before load_mod_pipeworks = true in world.mt robyndrake: joy. specing: maybe version mismatch? specing: maybe screwdriver mod that you have does not create a global object called screwdriver? robyndrake: ok, I'll check that out, thank you for the tip robyndrake: all is working now specing: robyndrake: so, what was the issue? robyndrake: the version robyndrake: used screwdriver2 and all is well now specing: k ghoti: So.. I've grabbed a copy of my mt directory with mods, but I would like to run it on a fresh map.sqlite and players.sqlite for testing new mods. How do I initialize fresh sqlite databases? I want a fresg map, auth and players. Should I just truncate copies of the existing sqlite files? ghoti: It would be great if the server would just generate missing files once it needs them, but I have found no documentation that suggests it does that. Hawk777: Can’t you just delete the files altogether? Hawk777: I’m not certain whether it works or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised, and it seems easy to test. Warr1024: Rename them in case you change your mind later :-) Andrew: Hi. Two questions: 1) Is there an easy way to display Chinese on MT? I still couldn't get the fonts set-up 2) Is there a quest system that reads quest files from stuff like YML or JSON, that works like epic blocks, but have no physical representation of them? ghoti: Hawk777: that worked. I actually didn't expect it to. Thanks very much. :) Andrew: How do I make EPIC blocks *NOT* show waypoints to players? Andrew: It's bad that people taking the quest can easily see where they should go next Andrew: Is there a way to automatically set a user mode after connect with the IRC mod? hlqkj: Hi all! I have a question: reading lua_api.txt I get that paramtype is required to be 'light' when the nodebox drawtype is used. Why it is so? calcul0n_: hlqkj, from what i see it's not required, it's just the value used in the example hlqkj: hey, thank you! but then why this line: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L999 ? calcul0n_: ho it's paramtype, i was thinking about paramtype2 calcul0n_: i don't really understand this one in fact hlqkj: trying to figure out how to stop stairs nodes (but not only those) being "transparent" to sunlight sfan5: sunlight_propagates = false? hlqkj: thats the theory... but if i build an hollow cube of nodes that do have paramtype set to light, you can't seem to get darkness insite them hlqkj: *inside of it... darn language barrier hlqkj: it's weird to have blocks supposed to be solid (eg stone slopes/stairs) letting light through them jonadab: I find it _useful_ that you can use blocks that appear solid, to hide light sources in certain kinds of builds. wwar: It is useful, question is, is it a bug or a feature? 🤔 hlqkj: eh.. hlqkj: last occurrence of this we had, was with the castle_masonry:stonewall block. that's not even a stair (hence, in that particular case i just fixed the node def and set paramtype to none) hlqkj: but with slopes/stairs i dunno if i can safely change the paramtype or that will break something, since that line in lua_api.txt i linked earlier entuland: they're probably implemented like that cause of the non-full block, imagine a wall with stairs placed just so that you get a full 1/4 of the surface covered with "holes" - light should be 1/4 attenuated hlqkj: ah k, that makes sense entuland: I doubt it's easy or feasible to do such computation depending on the block geometry, it's just easier to let light through Warr1024: Nodes can only either allow light to pass in and through them, or not pass into them at all. There's no way to allow a node to have light pass into it (e.g. to light up the space within the stair) but not back out (e.g. passing all the way through). Warr1024: There's also no protocol for specifying the paths that light can or cannot take through a node. Warr1024: My mod https://content.minetest.net/packages/Warr1024/nc_stairs/ actually has a solution for this problem, but you're not gonna like it :-D hlqkj: lets see MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix documented default colors for set_sky 1368143ed https://git.io/JCVho (152021-07-14T15:14:45Z) independent56: Do any of you want to read my rant on bromcom, the horrible system used by my school? Warr1024: Eh, I'm always down for a canned rant I guess :-/ independent56: http://56i.duckdns.org/wordpress/2021/07/14/fuck-bromcom/ Warr1024: "Bromcom" sounds like romcom for bros as implemented by broadcom. independent56: website is at bromcom.com, if you're intrested. Warr1024: Institutional shit always sucks. They have basically a hostage audience, so they have no incentive to improve. The people who make the decision about what to use are not the people who have to suffer the full consequences of that choice, so they only base their decision on what they care about, usually price, and then they fail to account for the costs they incur downstream from people having to work around bad systems. Warr1024: You can hate on this one piece of software all you want, but you should be confident that it's the best choice possible because the only way they'd change it is if they found something worse. It's not the product that sucks, it's the incentive structure. independent56: Ah, makes sense... FOSS is always better but cheaper... If only i could found a viable solution (i wish i had the right search terms). Of course, "Anybody can edit it!" has the same consequences as wikipedia got. Warr1024: People everywhere love a good "if people have the freedom to make their own choices they might make bad ones" moral panic. Even FOSS isn't immune by a longshot. independent56: Yeah, i remember what happened with tha tuniversity and the linux kernel. Even the vetting process for FOSS may not be sufficent in some cases Jordach: No FOSS is terrible for long term cost effectiveness independent56: why? please explain more Jordach: Imagine using it until you find showstopping bugs which immediately start affecting your income Jordach: At which point you’ve already filed the relevant issues and the maintainer response is fuck off Jordach: Not supported independent56: hmm independent56: Make a fork >:-) Jordach: Not only that you need an experienced programmer in the language of the software and also training them for familiarity Jordach: At which point the fork is maintained but is no longer able to merge upstream because of merge conflicts independent56: hmm independent56: i guess i will be the only person who sues it on my server Jordach: So it now means you no longer receive potential security fixes from upstream, and now you have to pay a full team of programmers which equals the original loss Warr1024: FOSS is terrible for long-term cost-effectiveness, but it's the last S, not the preceding FOS, that's the major cause of that. Jordach: Yes Jordach: Software support that you host yourself is expensive Jordach: Literally in both time and cost Warr1024: All software sucks, FOSS just has its own particular way of doing so. independent56: hah Hawk777: Heh. Closed source software is exactly the same (I run into a problem, why would $BIG_CORPORATION even care about me, I’m just a little guy who doesn’t matter) except now I can’t solve my problem at all. Hawk777: Some is no doubt better, but not all. Jordach: No the problem is a lack of guaranteed contracted support clause Hawk777: And how many pieces of software have you bought, as an individual, an ordinary person (not a company), that have one of those? independent56: I only use FOSS on my webbook (wordpress, dokuwiki, xampp, stikked, bodhi linux...) independent56: And my server runs fine. Jordach: Enough to break 4 digits and closer to 5 digits in £ GNUHacker: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Jul-10 08:55 UTC https://krock-works.uk.to/u/patches/0001-Fix-some-implicit-hard-and-soft-dependencies.patch MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Jul-10 16:34 UTC also "depends = mcl_autogroup" in _mcl_autogroup/mod.conf Wuzzy: Krock: I no longer maintain MineClone 2 since months now, lol. Biggvs_Richardvs: Is this the right Forum for mod debugging/issues? Biggvs_Richardvs: The Rangedweapons mod is crashing my server Biggvs_Richardvs: But it's a super cool mod - just want to fix it Biggvs_Richardvs: mods/rangedweapons/ammo.lua:112: bad argument #2 to 'random' (interval is empty) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood Biggvs_Richardvs: Looks like the mod has been updated as recently as March of this year Kelp: I'm getting really bad FPS in minetest and supertuxkart. It seems to be capped at 50 fps even tho I changed the cap to 75 Kelp: And in minecraft on the highest settings I got like 300 fps Kelp: And some things like using the bow drop my fps to 32 Extex: How can I tell if my sound file is stereo or mono? Benrob0329: If you open it in a sound editor and it has a Left and a Right channel, it's stereo Benrob0329: If it only has one channel, then it's mono Benrob0329: Many audio players (or a tool like mediainfo) will also tell you rndusr: hey, doc.minetest.net's tls cert has seemed to expired rndusr: is there anything being done about that? is the docs in a different place? rndusr: also, on the wiki, is registration open? rndusr: because there's no sign up link. Benrob0329: Please step to the back of the line, all representatives are currently busy with everyone else who has reported this already. rndusr: Benrob0329: sorry Benrob0329: You're good, there's just been a lot of people reporting it (and to be fair, it's not getting fixed for whatever reason) Benrob0329: Just saying "we know" to everyone gets a little boring, y'know? rndusr: is there a mirror that you know of? Benrob0329: The wayback machine? rndusr: ooh * rndusr: forgot Kimapr: rdnusr: the cert may have expired, but doesn't it still work? entuland: ignoring the warning it should work, yes jonadab: Some web browsers make that easier to do than others; also, some of them give you better details about exactly what's wrong, than others. jonadab: Personally, I kind of want a global setting for "don't worry about expired certs that expired within the last 30 days." Warr1024: If they have an "ignore certs expired in the last 30 days" option, then eventually more and more users will enable it until people just stop reporting the problem at all until 30 days after the expiration, and then the problem will shift 30 days later. This will cause CAs to reduce certificate lifetime by 30 days to compensate and de facto remain within the standards. Warr1024: Ultimately it just wouldn't work because the browser makers are on the same side as the certificate issuers, and if the weren't then the whole system wouldn't have worked in the first place. independent_: You would be suprised by how many teachers thought my CPU hairbrush was called a "motherboard" Benrob0329: I would not be, most people are not technically literate independent_: yeah, they know the basics, like "move ouse and press two bars to play youtube videio", but they don't even know shortcuts exist. independent_: But the TA i spend the most time with has inherited some knowladge, like some keybinds, and basic programming. But they haven't advanced to the stage that they can read a verse such as "The design is Unix-like, although the error handling is Go-like; failing calls return values of type error rather than error numbers. " without getting confused rubenwardy: I mean, that's not a very good "verse" anyway rubenwardy: communications is a two way thing, you need to communicate with enough context and adjust working based on the audience rubenwardy: *wording independent_: I can't even share the horror of "php: a fractal of bad design" with teachers, as hey can't understand it. independent_: https://pastebin.com/EDqKytmN Is a blog post i wrote in english because the only alternative was to write about football (imho a horrible sport). jonadab: Is there such a thing as a non-horrible sport? gh00p: ping pong? specing: horrible? Benrob0329: Swim? Krock: chess? rubenwardy: ?muteme 1m rubenwardy: . rubenwardy: ?muteme 1m GreenXenith: Rubenwardy this is the irc bridge. GreenXenith: Discord bots cant see you. rubenwardy: was wondering if it would mute the bridge Warr1024: :trollface: Warr1024: bridge uses webhooks anyway, so I think it wouldn't work right even if it could. independent56: ?muteme 1 m independent56: hmm... i have been unable to hack the mainframe, damn! GreenXenith: And if youre going to mess with bridge, better to do so in -hub independent56: ha independent56: isn't that the restircted channel? rubenwardy: -hub is technically stricter moderated rubenwardy: but it's also dead apart from t+11 so \o/ Calinou: https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/new-world-generation-java-available-testing Calinou: a lot of those screenshots remind me of Minetest's mapgens, or even the default textures Calinou: probably coindicence, but it's a bit funny :) Krock: mgv7 or 5 Calinou: mgv7 probably Calinou: but even mgv6 sometimes robyndrake: Hello, I have the screwdriver mod loaded in world.mt and I'm trying to load pipeworks, also set to true in world.mt, but I get /home/minetest/minetest/bin/../mods/pipeworks/devices.lua:168: attempt to index global 'screwdriver' (a nil value) robyndrake: Any help would be greatly appreciated specing: Sounds like you're pretty screwed there robyndrake: ha ha robyndrake: I may have found my mistake robyndrake: still the same error robyndrake: what do I need to pastebin? robyndrake: any direction to the answer would be appreciated robyndrake: nevermind found the answer Andrew: robyndrake: I don't think it supports TLS robyndrake: it does robyndrake: in the advanced settings Andrew: Then, no idea robyndrake: you have to look in it's config.lua Andrew: If i needed it I will use a trick: Set up a plain socket that fowards stuff to a TLS connection (eg by using a simple openssl and netcat) on localhost, and connect MT to there, or just use ZNC or something, it doesn't matter too much Andrew: If i needed it I will use a trick: Set up a plain socket that fowards stuff to a TLS connection (eg by using a simple openssl and netcat) on localhost, and connect MT to there, or just use ZNC or something, it doesn't matter too much robyndrake: the setting is irc.secure = true robyndrake: all I needed robyndrake: and the right irc.port Andrew: ig you're good to go then jastiv: my mapgen went away and left me with only stone, How do I fix it. Jonathon: go into settings, select mg_flags, and restore default Jonathon: most likely, something screwed them up jastiv: apparently restoring default did not fix it. I only generate stone on maps from all games, mineclone2 nodecore, minetest etc Jonathon: to verify, you have all of them checked, and hit save? Jonathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/863956219638710272/unknown.png Jonathon: if so, can you upload your minetest.conf file to pastebin or similar site so i can take a look? jastiv: I don't know what mod I installed, but it always sets the water_level = -31000 jastiv: I removed the nobiome flag and was able to get plants back, but it seems to be missing water. I did install the waterworld game though. jastiv: but then why should it mess up map gen for other games. Warr1024: check if your minetest.conf got changed, I think settings can leak out into there and then affect all new worlds and get baked into map_meta.txt Pillager_desert: im back mrkubax10: Is it possible to compile only server without graphics? Emerald2: Lots of people do it that way, yes. mrkubax10: How to do this (Do I need CMake flag or something) Emerald2: Not sure how up to date this is. https://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest mrkubax10: thanks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build on Ubuntu 16.04 and macOS 135c89a0e https://git.io/JCUDs (152021-07-12T10:03:39Z) mrkubax10: How to enable mod on minetestserver? sfan5: edit world.mt while the server is shut down rubenwardy: If you have a few servers, I prefer to install mods to worlds/worldname/worldmods as it makes managing them a bit easier mrkubax10: thanks for fast replies mazes_81: Hi, I just noticed that notabug is not reachable because of ddos. I'm surprised and ask myself who wants to attack such "minor" platforms Warr1024: you can start an MT server that only has 3 people, and then end up having a dispute and banning one of those people, and then get DDoSsed by them. Being obscure is only a pretty weak defense, and notabug is not all THAT obscure. specing: mazes_81: big platforms who feel threatened by them specing: or other small platforms that want to gain users fast mazes_81: clearly, I'm not used to open self hosted services, far to imagine every way people can react. (btw can't host anything, my isp box don't manage port forwarding if you don't use their dns ??? :( ??? ) specing: mazes_81: you can't put it into bridge mode? Warr1024: There are a few public minetest servers that people run without the ability to forward ports. Options for it include (1) overlay networks like yggdrasil, or (2) wireguard and a friend with a VPS and available ports. Warr1024: You can't be listed in the official server list if an overlay network is required to connect, though yggdrasil might actually have enough servers on it by now that running a separate server list specifically for yggdrasil hosts might make sense... mazes_81: not even a bridge mode available. (last ISP I used had but bridge made phone unavailable) mazes_81: not really important for me, else I would have switch operator really earlier Warr1024: You can get a decent entry-level VPS for very close to $5 USD per month, so it's pretty easy to accumulate enough self-hosted stuff that it makes more sense to offsite most of it anyway. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove hardcoded "You died." message in chat (#11443) 136cdb150 https://git.io/JCkBj (152021-07-12T18:32:27Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix revoke debug privs not reliably turn off stuff (#11409) 13b7b5aad https://git.io/JCkRe (152021-07-12T18:32:18Z) Swift110-mobile: are any of you using a joystick for minetest? entuland: a joystick or a controller? rubenwardy: Linux refers to controllers as joysticks, which is why Minetest calls them joysticks entuland: I asked to know about the actual device, maybe they're having troubles with it, if I recall correctly I have been able to use a controller on Minetest, never tried a joystick though (as in the device that looks like a flight stick) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Refactor video driver name retrieval (#11413) 131d25d1f https://git.io/Jcjh5 (152021-07-11T07:50:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04x2048 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve shadow rendering with non-default camera FOV (#11385) 13f5706d4 https://git.io/JCvEG (152021-07-11T15:15:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04x2048 -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid draw list and shadow map update in the same frame to reduce dti… 13effb535 https://git.io/JCvN3 (152021-07-11T17:57:29Z) Krock: !c 100**2/99**2 MinetestBot: 1.0203040506070808 independent56: How dare you break the silence? i thought today would be a great time of silence, but your silly calculation takes the spotlight >:-( robyndrake: Please, with the irc mod, how do I get it to connect to a tls irc network? Warr1024: Is there any way to get falling damage to process if enable_damage is false? Extex: Is there a function for a tool definition like on_dig but on the tool's side? (Or does on_dig work?) Pillager_desert: need update for mineclone 2 to android user can use bow and snowball, also add trade system to villager independent56: To label my disks, i use some rough paper tape and pen, because "it's what i have". independent56: to use the disk partition names is cleaner, but it requires plugging them in. independent56: I need to label bcause using serial numbers is horrible, and sometimes the alabels cover up the serial numbers. specing: all disks so far came with a white label and there's usually enough space there left to put down some markings Krock: !tell Wuzzy https://krock-works.uk.to/u/patches/0001-Fix-some-implicit-hard-and-soft-dependencies.patch MinetestBot: Krock: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around independent56: i wish i could actually draw on it without a sharpie... ugh! independent56: turns out hexchat crashes if i do "^f SSD". Krock: ^f SSD independent56: crtl+f independent56: only if your chat history is huge independent56: " yeah, ssd fails without sound :p" Which is why i make backups. Ingar: independent56: cookies for disk labels independent56: huh? Ingar: independent56 | I need to label bcause using serial numbers is horrible, and sometimes the alabels cover up the serial numbers. independent56: i still dont get the "joke" Ingar: it's not a joke Ingar: I had to make a scene at work to get them to label their portable disks Ingar: because I was tired of "guess the disk" independent56: oh wow independent56: yeah....you probably have a proper labelling thing there Ingar: I do now :) Ingar: I'm labelman independent56: yay independent56: a possible solution to label them is to use numbers, and some big index, but then that's just more accessible serial numbers... giving them names like "george" or "harry" may be nice, or you could dow hat i did and go "offsite backup" "onsite backup", or "old files don't touch!" MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Kalabasa -> 03minetest/minetest: Use `persistence` instead of `persist` in NoiseParams examples 1342fbc75 https://git.io/Jcx7w (152021-07-10T12:19:33Z) independent56: i've been trying to use a sed command, but it wont work with my file structure. i have files with no file extension,a nd directories. i need to use a wildard to find and replace text. sfan5: google > bash glob no extension MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Script API: Fix segfault in remove_detached_inventory 13b93bbfd https://git.io/Jcxd9 (152021-07-10T12:34:36Z) independent56: The biggest risk i took was to log in to my wiki from the school network... so dangerous. Krock: !tell Wuzzy also "depends = mcl_autogroup" in _mcl_autogroup/mod.conf MinetestBot: Krock: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around Hiligan: Hello, someone knows which convention get_yaw() follows for lua entities: CCW from +X or +Z axis? Docs states this for player entities, but not for lua ones... I should assume it's +X since that is for the (deprecated) player entity get_yaw()? Krock: Hiligan: https://dev.minetest.net/Player Krock: get_yaw goes from Z+ to X- CCW Krock: also the yaw functions are the same for players and entities Hiligan: Krock, thank you MinetestBot: 02[git] 04unknown -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix typo in lua_api.txt 132952201 https://git.io/Jch0y (152021-07-10T23:37:18Z) independent56: Update: I will no longer focus on developing the OS. that is the purpose of my base. I will just make distro-specific apps and some chnages to the OS itself. independent56: I'm just in the planning stage, where i don't lose much if i give up. celeron55_: it's actually more painful to make and maintain a linux distro than to make an maintain an os from scratch celeron55_: the latter is usually way more minimalist and doesn't get updates unless you make them Benrob0329: But the former isn't usually all that useful until it becomes similar in work to the latter. celeron55_: umm TungHoang: Bot:D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Warr1024 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add API for mods to hook liquid transformation events (#11405) 1352128ae https://git.io/JcFbm (152021-07-09T13:08:40Z) independent56: Haha... i will grab a version of a distro, and i wont update the distro seperately. the distro is now a different one. independent56: https://imgur.com/a/cJ0XZrd Please, buy my a box! appguru: You don't need a box for a couple disks benrob0329: celeron55_: Any reason in particular that the minetest.net -> www.minetest.net redirect isn't DNS level? sfan5: yes sfan5: you cannot redirect the root of a domain Hawk777: Isn’t it also better for SEO or something to use HTTP redirects to a single canonical domain? rubenwardy: minetest.net is currently a HTTP redirect with a broken TLS certificate independent56: I was using an old CPU as a hairbrush, and the thermal paste rubbed off... it's an AMD athlon ii. appguru: Why would you use a processor as hairbrush? independent56: It's what i have on hand - a 2008 processor, and the pins are brilliant. * specing: still regularly uses 2008 computers Guest86: hey guys does anyone know what license ruben wardy's modding book is under? Guest86: I looked around on the git repo and the website but no mention of a license * independent56: hates old computers, and has ripped out their memory and drives, foor personal use independent56: I guess it's fine to use 2008 computers... if you retrofit them fro the furture (swappng out hardware, like the memory, disks, and wifi cards) rubenwardy: Guest86: CC BY-SA 3.0 rubenwardy: it's in the README Guest86: ty rubenwardy specing: independent56: I use non-retrofited ones :P (though they got an SSD upgrade) independent56: hmm... how dare you! specing: Why wouldn't I independent56: i actually regularly use a 2009 computer... as my server. independent56: 32 bit greatness awaits! specing: most software runs fine on them independent56: I use a nice 2019 computer as my main. specing: it's 32 bit? My 2008 computers are all 64bit Krock: desktops.. perhaps. my 2008 laptop is also 32-bit Krock: was okay for its time, but nowadays it's really not usable for anything aside office tasks independent56: Samsung NC10 independent56: Lovely computer... works perectly Guest86: haha I cant belive I missed that haha sorry for bugging you rubenwardy :) rubenwardy: np Guest86: im looking to include a html version of your book in something im making which is gplv3 Guest86: i hope thats acceptable lol i have no idea when it comes to figuring out if things with different licenses can be combined appguru: I don't think CC BY-SA 3.0 and GPLv3 are compatible :/ appguru: I'd prefer it if you just linked the book though (or included it as a submodule), no need to copy & paste appguru: See https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses Guest86: actually direct linking to the html version is something that I hadnt thought of and is perect for my application :) ty for the insight :) appguru: np rubenwardy: yeah that keeps it up to date too Guest86: and 990% of ppl these days are on an always on broadband connection so will have net connection Guest86: interesting that web page states :GPLv3: The GNU General Public License version 3 was declared a “BY-SA–Compatible License” for version 4.0 on 8 October 2015 independent56: "kzz k k" is ths ound my hard drive is making (a backup one) independent56: I'm lucky i use an ssd, so it's silent... ugh, i ahve to get a different hdd. SwissalpS: yeah, ssd fails without sound :p Guest86: OK rubenwardy i implemented it as a internel web browser that goes to your html link Guest86: for the book jluc: https://spritestack.io ? MrB_: yay finally got hexchat to connect to here not freenode lol Wuzzy: strange Wuzzy: i cant seem to get the sun tonemap to work Wuzzy: nothing works, no matter what i do Wuzzy: any idea? Wuzzy: i tried using a texture map, tried using set_sun(). still nothing independent_: i love the "3-2-1 rule", but does the "2 types of media" mean that me using an SSD on my main, and a HDD on my backups is ok? independent_: Haha my second hard drive goes "whoosh tick" once per second. independent_: Now it's just going "hmmmmmmmmmm" independent_: I just put the cover on the drive.. and wow, so much quieter. mohammadashik: Hello! j45: Hey Swift110-mobile: hey all meldrian: Aloha everyone IvanGorinich: hello wwar: 👋 IvanGorinich: i make roleplay server IvanGorinich: but its rusian, who know rusian can join and play IvanGorinich: you can make your own country or company IvanGorinich: my server selfhosted and no comercial IvanGorinich: commercial * specing: roleplays as a disconnected player MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Panquesito7 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Replace Travis CI with GitHub actions (#2661) 139270188 https://git.io/JcQCJ (152021-07-08T10:47:37Z) MinetestBot: twoelk: Jul-07 19:56 UTC Already planned, though I don't remember if I had any ideas for how to keep players from building there independent_: IvanGorinich, i can understand 12% of russian. What's the name? i would love to visit and see how such a server works, and what elements i can silently take into my own. IvanGorinich: https://mtroleplay.ivangorinich.repl.co/ IvanGorinich: but you need yggdrasil mesh net client to join IvanGorinich: becouse i havent static IP independent_: My ip changed two days ago. it seems to happen every two or three months independent_: How dynamic is your IP? if it happens once per week, then it's fine. IvanGorinich: with NAT IvanGorinich: from provider IvanGorinich: not dynamic to internet IvanGorinich: Dynamic in providers NAT twoelk: is your own server up independent_ ? independent_: Not online, and port forwarding seems to be confused Warr1024: Sounds like not having a public IP might be a more common problem in the russian-speaking world... twoelk: tsts, just when I was musing on doing some server touring IvanGorinich: i dont have proxy on VPN server with static ip independent_: I dont feel liek install ygdrasl on my ocmpute to play on one single server, sorry. Warr1024: There are at least 4 servers on ygg so far Warr1024: I had been thinking about trying to come up with a better solution for this, but the biggest problem is probably liability. twoelk: I totally forgot that joining a VE server with empty cache may take forever independent_: how could vannessa possibly operate so many servers? how do they have enough time to maintain the servers? sfan5: the server admin doesn't have to do everything personally you know independent_: Tell me more Krock: docker start Krock: docker start Krock: docker start Krock: repeat until all servers are up Krock: then get some loyal people who won't wreck the server and give them mod powers independent_: ohhh... now i get you... so each server is it's own container... i didn't know you could do that! VanessaE: well it's a bit more than that VanessaE: and I don't use docker Krock: what you need to do is to take care of the infrastructure, so that the server runs well Krock: such as fixing mods that cause errors for no good reason Pexin: also what mods? your servers are all empty :] Pexin: (moderators) VanessaE: :P VanessaE: yeah they're not as popular as I'd like.. Krock: 🔥 VanessaE: *shrug* independent_: I have just realised... maybe it is a good idea to use docker images to run minetest servers. what are the downsides of such a setup? independent_: йвй в ивй вхф independent_: Oh wait, russian keyboard enabled. sorry. appguru: independent_: Overhead. independent_: some examples? appguru: That appears to be pretty negligible though. Warr1024: The advantages appear to significantly outweigh the disadvantages. It's much easier to keep up to date, and to isolate config so that it's all in one place, reproducible and portable, etc independent_: Very intresting... just that i need to see a current setup, with a dockerfile i can stea- take inspiration from. Warr1024: https://hub.docker.com/r/linuxserver/minetest Warr1024: No need to take inspiration, it's basically turnkey, until you need to customize something beyond just installing games/mods or server config. independent_: wow beanzilla: Yikes... That image would be big... they really should learn about docker layers... Docker will persist the libs apt removes which bloats the iamge size and takes up space... Here's my Dockerfile... https://pastebin.com/XhjHH2YH beanzilla: But if it works who really cares about the size. independent_: https://imgur.com/a/jvuEDoc <-- here is a coushon i made for minetest, in textiles around the beggining of 2020. beanzilla: Very neat. independent_: 2020-02-06 independent_: i had to do it under the supervision of a lower-class teacher, because duh, autism independent_: oh wait i wasn't diagnosed until first quarter 2021 dammit Warr1024: Optimizing an image for size often pessimizes it for incremental change speed. I usually try to make as many layers as I reasonably can, sort them in ascending order of probability of needing to be rebuilt, and avoid stripping out dev dependencies since it wastes time adding whiteouts. beanzilla: Ah, and I didn't notice that I have a proxy where I grab cached copies of the stuff needed from apt install. beanzilla: That speeds up my build so I don't need to wait 10+ minutes from just downloading the libs and such. beanzilla: Not to mention my dockerfile simply extracts the tar ball of the minetest source code... it needs that to build.. also needs a bit more setup work besides just drop-play. * beanzilla: wanders off to find something else he can break on his machine. Hey this still works let's break it. Warr1024: I use the lsio MT docker image for simple hosting at home. For my "production" server I have a local custom image derived from it where I add more deps and then rebuild the server with pgsql enabled. Warr1024: The basic version is adequate though for most servers, and I could probably get away with it on my production server if I were okay with taking the server down for backups. beanzilla: Ooh, fancy stuff, Yeah I'm not brave enough to open to the public a server just yet. beanzilla: Not to mention I'm more into making mods or fixing clear and obviously broken ones. Warr1024: My main motivation for publicly listing a server is to get exposure and beta testers for Nodecore independent_: i cant die in nodecore! independent_: i can jump off cliffs! independent_: i feel so free! Warr1024: It's easy not to lose what you've already got, but it's hard to make progress. independent56: Is creating an OS as hard as creating a programming language? rubenwardy: depends rubenwardy: on how much you want to do with either independent56: I plan on taking a distro of linux, and adding default apps as well as OS changes, to make a more accessible OS, for teachers. independent56: "One where forced computer users will be able to efficently and easily do stuff. Teachers are so painfully slow on computers... and for them, computers feel like they are tripping people up." rubenwardy: oh right, that's more like customising a distro than making an OS independent56: Yay! But i can still say "ohh i made an OS", right? rubenwardy: in the same way someone someone who went to oxford brooks could say they went to oxford university rubenwardy: so no independent56: Well, i may be wrong, but it hasn't stopped people from saying things. Being wrong < The amazment of surrounding teachers when i say "i made an OS". But my honesty will probably make me say "i just added modules to a existing OS and edited some of it". rubenwardy: it's dishonest rubenwardy: if you actually want to make one, take a look at https://wiki.osdev.org/Main_Page independent56: "Theres a wiki for everything" ~someone else Lone_Wolf: *~wiki.wikis.org appguru: LuaOS when? rubenwardy: doesn't have manual memory management rubenwardy: you could use it for user space stuff though Warr1024: As a user, I want to use Lua for all my space stuff Benrob0329: There is a systems language based on Lua, might be able to use that if you're clever Benrob0329: But it'd probably be better to just have a Lua-based shell and utilities sofar: hmmm, I used to have nodes with `alpha = 160,` but that is now obsolete... what do I replace this with? sofar: specifically they were water nodes Warr1024: texture modifiers as far as I've seen. I considered a hack to do it automatically but some of my stuff was too complex for it to work well. sofar: *whatever* sofar: the textures seem to have proper alpha in them independent56: Wow... people from equador, egypt, texas, ans the USA are all scaning me... i'm flattered independent56: I must be on some sort of database of servers now independent56: I'm just wondering, should i send reports of these guys to the government? FBI: yes FBI: thou shall independent56: XD independent56: gtg school. appguru: independent56: some are probably crawlers of legit search engines and the like, others are probably scanners looking to break into yet another WordPress instance, and a few are surely lurkers like me BuckarooBanzai: yeah, thats the "usual" background traffic when you expose something to the internet ;) allesha: hello all independent56: well... i dont think a web crawler would "rm -rf thinkphp" lusy-grey: come to irc freenode chat <== new network for only chat. lusy-grey: Come fast register your channel, first come, first serve basis. rubenwardy: independent56: web crawlers don't need to be legit rubenwardy: a web crawler is just a bot that follows links to discover pages. Legit web crawlers use that data for searching and indexing, but malicious web crawlers could look for vulnerabilities independent56: Hmm... Well, how would it find my site? where have i put links to my website? rubenwardy: it may be enumerating IP addresses independent56: Oh... yeah, i was thinking of "legit" ones. independent56: And "people from equador", i mean all thos vulnrability scans. It breaks article 1 of the computer misue act - something about seeking unatuthorised access to a computer. specing: good luck finding the perpetrator independent56: i wont. the IP is all the government needs to start their investigation Warr1024: Don't expect "article 1 of the computer misuse act" to apply to them either. You have no idea where you'll actually find the people responsible, but there's a good chance that laws we take for granted don't apply there. Jordach: this Jordach: best you'll get is a criminal reference number from the rozzers specing: Nah, the laws of the land where the crime was perpetrated apply independent56: hmm. yeah, i know from the IP address that they aren't from the UK Warr1024: No you don't Jordach: second, the misuse act only applies to british citizens in british territories Warr1024: you only know the IP address of the computer that scanned you independent56: oh yeah independent56: could be a vpn/vps 0_0 Warr1024: The person responsible for the scan (if they'r even aware of it) could be anywhere on earth Warr1024: Or technically not on earth, though we assume there aren't any hackers on the ISS right now. sfan5: (or not on earth) sfan5: there's definitely hackers on the ISS sfan5: but not in the popular sense of the word Warr1024: Heh, well, I assume they probably have better things to do with their time than run a botnet Warr1024: though so much of that is fire-and-forget at this point with automatic vulnerability scans, they very well could have just left their botnet to largely run itself while on a space mission... Warr1024: If you got scanned by an IP address in Ecuador there's like a 90% chance that it's someone's home router or a printer/fax machine in some office, that has its management interfaces exposed to the internet and they never changed the default password. independent56: oh yeah... maybe it's to much bother then it's worth to reprot to the government. Jordach: if you're that paranoid - don't host at all independent56: haha Jordach: i live with an actual red team pentester Jordach: he could probably dumpster your machines in about an hour Jordach: wu tang LAN ain't nothing to mess with independent56: haha... oh god independent56: correction: if you're that paranoid - make sure you backup very often. Pexin: what I want to know is, could they be scanning for vulnerabilities FROM THE FUTURE Pexin: temporal internet when Warr1024: What are you talking about? This IS the future, has been for years. * Pexin: changes PC's internal clock VanessaE: To the person who just tried to DDoS my server, FUCK YOU. That is all. VanessaE: (I mention it here since it's more likely to be a disgruntled player than nayone else :P ) VanessaE: any* specing: Maybe it was independent56 VanessaE: doubt it. independent56: i have my own worries. specing: VanessaE: stop scanning him and he'll stop DDoSing you. :P independent56: i had a 503 error, and ended up worrying about a remote wipe of my system, at school. VanessaE: heh independent56: Explain more about the incident... how did you react? independent56: here follows a quote from my document abotu the 503 - "Hello… and I am slightly concerned about my work. If someone managed to exploit a vulnerability, do rm -r /home, then they would have destroyed  all of my backups. I hope they didn’t touch anything. I hope nobody has accessed my server." independent56: which is why im scp-ing my backups to my main. Warr1024: 99% of the HTTP 503 errors I see are when an application is being restarted (often for maintenance or updates). Kubernetes for example returns 503's if the pods backing an ingress are being recycled. Other systems may return a 502 or a 504 for similar situations. independent56: i use XAMPP, and it was working perfectly. independent56: and the error was for hours. independent56: But i am restarting XAMPP jut to be sure Ingar: stop worrying about getting scanned, get worried of you don't get scanned Warr1024: As someone who sometimes has to do maintenance on web apps, I can confirm that the maintenance sometimes lasts for hours too and they're certainly as frustrated about that as you are :-D VanessaE: wait, you maintain web apps from time to time... and you're still sane? :P independent56: I have to maintain my server. the only thing which stops me from going insane is a froced break called "school". Pexin: you.. don't really have to maintain your server.. independent56: i can't not. if i don't then broken services will be broken forever Benrob0329: I'll never understand the logic of "I screwed up and got banned, therefore I'm going to waste money making sure I REALLY can't there play again." independent56: I mean my webserver, not the mtserver VanessaE: Benrob0329 well yo be fair I'm only guessing, since the only people I ever seem to piss off are MT players now and then. Could just as easily be random, like "war-dialing" for a target IP. VanessaE: to* Benrob0329: "I'm going to temporarily piss someone off in a way that inherently can't benefit me at all" Benrob0329: Nope, still doesn't make sense VanessaE: whatever the reason, it only lasted for 15 mins Pexin: humens - making sense since never Benrob0329: So not only did they try to piss you off, they also couldn't be arsed to put in the money to make it actually inconvenient for any length of time. Benrob0329: I don't know if that makes them more or less terrible VanessaE: haha independent56: Pexin, exactly. this is why i have ascended the huan race and become cybor independent56: *cyborg Benrob0329: I suppose I feel the same way about trolls, don't do it, but if you do at least make it worth my time. Warr1024: VE: Yes I do maintain web apps, and when did I ever claim to be sane? VanessaE: haha Benrob0329: Maybe its a terrible outlook to have, but I'd rather someone (for e.g.) fill my logs with Lenny faces rather than plain old access violations, because at least I'd get a good laugh out of it. VanessaE: lol Warr1024: I'm actually a little surprised to hear that VE even bats an eye about a DoS attack. I figured that running a bunch of large servers and having had to do moderation stuff, you'd come under retaliatory or even random attacks pretty often. Benrob0329: I suppose the whole point of DDoSing is to waste my time though, but that's hard to do when I'd actually be wasting my time messing with the server so they've just shut down my procrastination. VanessaE: Ben, well if THAT ever happens you can blame Jordach since he favors that face :) Benrob0329: Heh VanessaE: Warr: oh, I do get attacked every once in a while, but it's rare enough that it usually surprises me a little independent56: If someone was ever to DDoS me, i would live through it. nobody relies on my server. it can go on for weeks, and iwont pay a ransom. VanessaE: that's why I pay for a good host with good DDoS-mitigation VanessaE: if they hadn't emailed me, I wouldn't have known anything unusual was happening :) Warr1024: One of the drawbacks of being old enough is that when people talk about DDoS attacks it makes it sound like they're stuttering about old pre-graphical operating systems. Ingar: @Warr1024 DOS had graphics! VanessaE: heh Warr1024: DOS did not, but it could run software that did. There's a fine distinction... Benrob0329: I'm assuming they try to DDoS the web server specifically? Since (to my knowledge) the turnkey solutions probably wouldn't target MT Ingar: The later dos versions actually had a graphical filemanager (forgot the name) DOS 6 I think Ingar: or maybe in 5 already Warr1024: Ah could be... Jordach: You fockin wot VE Warr1024: I suspect that turnkey DDoS tools could target MT if it's just a matter of picking a UDP port though. VanessaE: Ben: dunno, my host's email didn't specify. just that my server's IP was targeted. Benrob0329: I suppose I should go educate myself on the matter, but I haven't the time right now VanessaE: Jordach: a joke :P Jordach: I haven’t used a lenny in years Jordach: 🤡 VanessaE: like I pay attention to that anyway :) Jordach: To be fair people are too uptight these days for a Lenny independent56: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) VanessaE: looks like they're trying to attack my host now :P VanessaE: (host's own status pages are slow to respond) Warr1024: Arguably the best thing to do is just pretend you don't notice it, since they might just be trying to get a reaction out of you. VanessaE: heh VanessaE: all the reaction they'll get out of me is a laugh :) VanessaE: (the aforementioned "fuck you" was more like "you failed, so fuck you" :) ) Warr1024: Well, you DID notice. independent56: well, to all those who are scanning the web and trying to exploit thinkphp? fuck you. go buy your own hardware! VanessaE: Warr: only because my host emailed me :) Warr1024: Haha, there's a bit of a difference there, since the exploit hunters are looking for hosts to add to a botnet, while VE's attacker is probably just seeking attention. VanessaE: the irony of that is how do you get attention if the world doesn't know it was you who did whatever it is :) independent56: i want to make my own botnet, with my own computers. VanessaE: independent56: with blackjack and hookers? VanessaE: :P independent56: Probably will have two - my main and my webserver, as they are the most accessible Warr1024: Attention-seeking behavior like attacking somebody's server is not strongly associated with that level of rational thought to begin with. VanessaE: good point VanessaE: whoever the attention-seeker is, if he's reading this: consider yourself disregarded and summarily ignored :) independent56: most recent scan was 16:13 BST independent56: (actually server time, which is a minute or so out of sync with real time.) Warr1024: Haha, I don't even remember how many years it's been since I paid attention to logs of people trying to brute-force my SSH port. Probably hundreds of thousands of attempts by now. Warr1024: For a while I tried a process of tempbanning them for a while if they had a certain number of failures, but what I ended up doing instead if just rejecting 95% of all incoming SSH connections across the board. Warr1024: Scanners often see that and think my port is closed, or maybe get like 1 or 2 attempts in first. If I want to access it though I just have to keep retrying until I roll a natural 20. Benrob0329: Its funny and terrifying to see SSH brute-force bots trying passwords like "minecraftserver" Warr1024: Systems that don't rely on trying to identify and track reputation of clients can't then be turned around to act as DoS vulnerabilities, e.g. by spoofing a source IP to get legit users tempbanned. independent56: haha VanessaE: Warr: fail2ban doesn't work for you? Benrob0329: I'd love to just greylist all incoming requests from new IPs Warr1024: It might but I don't want to bother setting it up. VanessaE: heh ok Warr1024: Also if my server comes under attack by someone who's at the same coffee shop that I am, they could buy themselves some time by just lightly brute-force-attacking it to block my own access to it so I can't respond. MNH48: does that kind of bruteforce work on SSH that don't use password? like mine uses ssh-ed25519 key to get on SSH Warr1024: As long as I use a system that treats all 3rd parties as equally untrusted then there's nothing for them to exploit to change the trust level of any other party, either higher OR lower. Warr1024: If you can memorize an entire ed25519 key then that's impressive, but so far passwords are the only credentials I've found that don't require some kind of device to store them on. Warr1024: My brain is harder to compromise than most devices, and I rarely misplace it. VanessaE: mine gets left in bed almost every morning. Warr1024: Try wearing earplugs to bed to keep it from sneaking out. VanessaE: though to be fair, that isn't "misplaced", that's just DISplaced :) VanessaE: lol Warr1024: I've got multiple 128-bit passwords memorized so I should be able to actually memorize an ed25519 key, with proper encoding, I guess... Benrob0329: At the end of the day if you keep your keys out of your computer nobody can steal them without physical access, which is usually fairly easy to deter with e.g. a dog. Benrob0329: Its scary how comfortable we're gotten storing stuff in random places on the internet Warr1024: Yeah, nobody is gonna steal a laptop with a power adapter that a dog's been chewing on. Benrob0329: Exactly! Benrob0329: Hmm, I wonder I could mar up a phone case to make it look less appealing to thieves Warr1024: In theory airgaps are perfect security while cryptography is only mostly secure. In practice, people generally don't break crypto, but they find all kinds of loopholes in physical access control. You're better off just using decent encryption on a cloud backup than storing your important crap in a shoebox full of USB drives. Warr1024: I feel like there must be a name for that as an art form: making things look fake-antique or beat up as a theft deterrent. I heard about a guy who has had his car broken into multiple times to steal his camera equipment, but then was able to leave thousands of dollars worth of high-end professional photography equipment sitting on a park bench undisturbed thanks to strategic use of duct tape. Warr1024: I "decorated" my work macbook so that can take it into libraries and coffee shops without any worry. I put down a layer of blue painter's tape first to protect the finish, then add duct tape over top of that, and the tape tends to get scuffed on its own just from packing, unpacking, and handling the thing. Benrob0329: What's safer, leaving stuff in the tank people are definitely going to go check out while no one is around, or the 1999 Oldsmobile that's had it's hood and bumper attached with duct tape and a prayer? Warr1024: Haha, talking about a '99 oldsmobile like it's old ... I still kinda miss my '97 lumina. Hawk777: “In theory airgaps are perfect security” except for the part where, to use your password/key/etc., you eventually have to type it into a computer connected to the Internet. You can’t make SSH secure when the computer on which the client is running is compromised. Store the key on a USB stick? OK, after breaking into your computer, the attacker will just leave a trojan behind that waits until you plug in the USB stick and then Hawk777: als the key. Store the key on a separate computer and do SSH agent authentication instead, so the key never appears on the Internet-connected computer? The attacker will just leave a trojan behind that waits until you actually have an SSH session open, and then sends fake keyboard input into it to install a remote access trojan on the SSH server and then clear the screen really quickly. Use a password instead so nobody can steal th Hawk777: y? Keylogger defeats you. If the SSH client machine is broken, you’ve pretty much lost hope. Warr1024: Yeah, you're getting into a lot of the ways that physical security is impossible, like evil maid and cold boot attacks and such. Warr1024: It's why when people talk about locking servers up in cages and posting armed guards, I remind them that that's still no substitute for e.g. full disk encryption. Warr1024: Even FDE only protects you from threats in one direction, i.e. people walking off with the disk. If they tamper with it but leave in in place ... that's a lot harder to protect against. Hawk777: I actually meant the exact opposite—an airgap is useless if the SSH client computer is broken into *from the internet*, even if your physical security is useless. Hawk777: Though it’s true that poor physical security can also cause the same problems. Hawk777: Sorry, in my first message there, I meant even if your physical security is *perfect*, not useless. Warr1024: When I'm talking about airgaps I'm talking about being not connected to the internet. At least, not directly. Everything that's connected to a human is connected to a part of the internet, after all. Hawk777: Ah, if you consider information passing through a human to not be airgapped, then sure. Airgaps are secure, but also mostly useless. Warr1024: The ambiguity in how you define a proper airgap is itself a big part of the problem with them. Benrob0329: I still want to have homelab servers with no SSH access that I just manage from a local terminal Benrob0329: Because while sure, someone could break in and do stuff, at that point my biggest concern is probably not the server Warr1024: Heh, I'm sort of the opposite. I would rather have everything be "cloud," I just want it to be cloud that I have control over instead of relying on some third party. This is why I do stuff like use dynamic DNS and run SSH/web servers on my home systems, and why I was annoyed that they just killed HPKP, even if the security model for it was mostly crappy to begin wtih... independent56: My biggest concern when someone breaks in is my computer, and the fact it has all my files. Bakup keeps on breaking down. Warr1024: My backup coverage is spotty, but the fact that I have my data in like 5 different tiers that all call for different levels of backup doesn't help. :-/ Hawk777: While this would be location-dependent, personally I am less concerned with someone stealing my computer and more concerned with parts of it breaking. That’s why I always make time for backups. Benrob0329: I have backups mostly to protect against my own screw ups, as well as ransomware Pexin: Warr1024: re graphics running on dos: remembering when "windows" was not (or only ambiguously) an "operating system" independent56: I keep backups because i am a human, and i have had human error kill me multiple times. Benrob0329: protection against the latter being a happy accident of protection against the former Warr1024: I have been successfully maliciously attacked by an outsider zero times so far since my switch to unix-likes, and only once on Windows. I have however self-owned multiple times, including 2 separate "rm -rf /$TEMPDIR" when it should have been "TMPDIR" incidents. rubenwardy: if you're trying to protect against ransomware, make sure the backups aren't on the same network Warr1024: A malicious attack is also just a form of human error, it's just an error in the moral processing of another human. Warr1024: (Hanlon's Razor Extreme Edition) independent56: Haha, i backup onto an old SSD. it stays offline literally 99% of the time Benrob0329: My PC backups are just my important files to a mostly powered-down external HDD Warr1024: I do something like that too, but I've never been quite as comfortable as I was back when I used to use non-rewritable optical media. It's hard to erase them, either accidentally or maliciously, given only software access. Benrob0329: Anything I intend to share goes on a Git host anyways, so thats already taken care of Warr1024: The problem with the "usually offline" approach is that if someone does want to mess with you, there's no reason why they would need to fire off the payload as soon as they get a toehold; they can just sit around for months and make sure they get a chance to infect your backups too. Pexin: I was always uncomfortable with how physically fragile optical media Warr1024: git is a nice backup strategy. Making your projects public and open source helps out a lot too, since anyone else who becomes interested can also help back you up. Warr1024: Optical media is fragile but not a ton more fragile than hard disks or SSDs really. All of them have care requirements and none are all that exotic. Benrob0329: I can't get any 3TB discs though (is it disk or disc for optical media?) Warr1024: If you really want data to survive a disaster the single most useful strategy is probably diversity. Diversity of medium, of location, of storage method and timing, etc. Benrob0329: punch cards independent56: i wish git wouldnt bloat my main disk so much if i used it for backup in my home directory Benrob0329: shallow cloning is a thing appguru: I would absolutely not backup to SSDss Warr1024: git isn't really a good enough tool for general purpose backup to use it indiscriminantly. appguru: SSDs* Warr1024: Why appguru: Well, backups often involve lots of rewrites. A HDD doesn't care, SSDs have limited TBW. Warr1024: I've been using HDDs and I've been thinking SSDs might actually be better, since they handle mechanical and thermal shock much better than HDDs. Warr1024: Also the rewrite thing is exactly backwards independent56: I wish i had more bakcup types, but i only have "hdd" and "ssd". But i have property in gwynedd, so i can use that to be offsite backup. i also have a location in egland, at myhome. Pexin: isn't flash storage essentially nano-punchcards? Warr1024: that's an excellent reason to use an SSD, because if your SSD can survive being used in a live system, then t definitely has the rewrite capacity to handle periodic backups. Benrob0329: ^ appguru: if your system supports delta backups, SSDs are probably fine - but if you backup by just copying everything periodically, I wouldn't want that to wear down a SSD Warr1024: SSD rewrite limits are mostly FUD. From what I've seen the various failure modes for mechanical disks will generally kill you long before SSD rewrites start to threaten. Warr1024: Backups are generally an append-only process though. Warr1024: So each bit of the disk is gonna get written basically once, aside from metadata. Warr1024: I use borg for deduping and backup every month to several months. When that disk gets full I buy a new one and "archive" the old one in a safe. appguru: independent56: What software does the backups for you Warr1024: Deduplication is pretty much a superset of the value you get from incrementals. appguru: I use what ships with Ubuntu, deja-dup Benrob0329: I've been running my root partition off of an NVME drive more-or-less since I built my PC, and I'm pretty sure my hard drive is gonna fail before the SSD considering that it's the only thing to have giving me any inklings of wear Benrob0329: *given Warr1024: Also you definitely don't want backups that keep only the latest version of everything, or else there are risks to backing up too often, and you will create the wrong incentives. appguru: Which is another reason to use HDDs: They have more space appguru: Or at least, cheaper space Warr1024: I use HDDs myself for backup. Benrob0329: The SSD <-> HDD space gap is lessening with time for common use cases Warr1024: SSDs may be tougher, but I coddle my backup drives anyway, and I don't need the speed because USB is a bottleneck anyway. Warr1024: I do expect SSDs to overtake HDDs within a few years, and I'll probably switch once the price is right. Warr1024: I certainly won't avoid SSDs, anyway. Warr1024: The only failure mode I've observed from SSDs so far that weren't factory-defective from the outset is obsolesecence. celeron55_: SSDs could be a bad idea for backups that need to last for tens of years untouche celeron55_: +d appguru: I wonder whether it would be reasonable for the MTDiscord relay to change it's nickname celeron55_: HDDs retain their content better when sitting on a shelf for decades Warr1024: Hmm, yeah, you need to leave SSDs powered on for a significant amount of time at least every year or so. Benrob0329: Heh, if I can keep coasting on my current storage solution long enough SSDs might become the cheaper option Warr1024: SSDs gradually discharge and need to internally self-refresh. Warr1024: They're still new enough in the field of backups that it's easy to forget their quirks. appguru: I assume you can't get your TBW back by waiting for your SSD to lose all data? celeron55_: i recall some place said it could be a bad idea to rely on an unpowered SSD to retain its data for even just 5 years Warr1024: It wasn't too long ago though that the same shit we're arguing about SSD vs HDD people were arguing about HDD vs tape. Benrob0329: I wonder if there are any cheap ROM usb drives for backup Benrob0329: tape is still used for cold storage, apparently Warr1024: If your SSD's cells self-discharge enough then I'd bet you end up with a brick. They'd probably lose the firmware too. Warr1024: c55 actually the worst I heard was only 2 years :-) celeron55_: surely SSDs have a separate flash for firmware? Warr1024: Haha, "surely" celeron55_: i guess it would be cheaper to not have one Warr1024: I mean "obviously" no manufacturer would cheap out that bad. 😏 Benrob0329: Oh no, they'd never do that celeron55_: i'm currently doing backups before a trip that i'll take my laptop with me, and i'm simply copying stuff onto a usb hard disk celeron55_: this method has never failed me independent56: MicroSD is a horrible backup solution. you spend hours making a backup then "fuck where is it?" celeron55_: well just put it on your keychain, encrypted of course celeron55_: you can probably 3d print a tiny holder for it independent56: celeron55_ i once had all my pre-2020 documents dissapear after i had it on one drive that i reformatted by accident. but they were all cringe. independent56: "probably" assues that i have a 3d printer. celeron55_: independent56: "had it on one drive" doesn't sound like backups celeron55_: a backup is something that's on a second drive Benrob0329: (doubling back because I had a though) But hey, on the bright side with crime slowly moving towards being tech-based maybe we can rely more on physical security and just limit network access because it'll become the less popular course of action Benrob0329: Due note however that most physical security is just as bad as most cyber security celeron55_: security by obscurity works fairly well for personal things celeron55_: just don't use the same obscurity others do independent56: What's funny is i have a huge, heavy HDD of 300 gb, and then the tiny ones have 500 gb. Of course i will use the smaller ones! Benrob0329: c55: Well, at least here in the US most popular lock manufacturers are terrible (ignoring the potential for "loud" entree methods) Benrob0329: Because while sure, locks are meant to stop easy access, if your lock can be raked open by someone with little experience then it's not much of a deterrent celeron55_: yeah i've heard US locks are jokes Ingar: but, who can access your precious data if you're uncounscious Benrob0329: It's all in your head, Ingar, it's all in your head Ingar: well, the widow of my dead friend never knew how much the bitcoins on his encrypted drive were worth Ingar: (real story) appguru: Robbing an encrypted drive is probably pretty dumb Benrob0329: unless the drive itself is expensive /s celeron55_: robbing an encrypted drive is more polite than robbing an unencrypted drive Ingar: I do use encrypted volumes for data transports at work though celeron55_: at least you're not stealing the data 8) Benrob0329: My laptop used to be encrypted, if I ever take it anywhere I'll need to set that back up Ingar: celeron55_: I might be into funy business :p Benrob0329: There hasn't been a need though, because..y'know rubenwardy: the problem with cyber security over physically security is that you don't need to be physical present, or even in the same country appguru: What if Ingar is a secret agent /s rubenwardy: you being the attacker rubenwardy: so you can go somewhere with no extradiction and cause lots of issues Ingar: I'm in your PC, logging your IRC and securely transporting it Warr1024: A physical lock is not a device to protect your stuff from thieves, it's a device to protect your neighbors from becoming thieves. How honest people are depends a lot on their circumstances, so the courteous thing to do is not to place your neighbors in more challenging circumstances. rubenwardy: plus insurance appguru: Pro tip: Just be poor and don't have any valuables in your house. Benrob0329: Decoy safes are an option too Ingar: it's also a legal thing independent56: pro tip: copy all yoru valubles to a backup hose, in case of bugarlies Ingar: breaking a lock to get to something proves intention appguru: indeed appguru: i56: that is pretty engrish Benrob0329: It also isn't "silent entree" and is less desirable most of the time afaik independent56: sorry, i pertend i am brish, but i am acctuall chienes Benrob0329: Not everyone cares of course appguru: all right, tell me more about those "bugarlies" appguru: bug-arlies, bugar-lies, bulgaries? independent56: burglas enter home > take valublees > go to police Hawk777: It’s when someone tells you there’s a burger available but there really isn’t. Benrob0329: At the end of the day, the best way to not get burgled is to look less valuable than the guy next to you. rubenwardy: or more secure Benrob0329: also that Ingar: it's like when running from a bear, I only need to be faster than you appguru: If I'm a rich burglar with 10k worth of stolen items, and you have 5k I can steal, why should I not do it? Benrob0329: heh, I've just thought about putting expensive gaming rigs in crappy 1999-esque cases so that they look like old trash to your average person appguru: Just fill it up with sandbags Benrob0329: lead cases Benrob0329: or buy cheap hardware and encase it in cement, if it breaks just replace it :P independent56: I just get insurance - my hardware is nothing compared to the importance of my files. independent56: *would if i was an adult appguru: Good luck proving the importance of your files to an insurance. appguru: Especially after they are gone. independent56: I mean, that's the use of offsite backup appguru: Yes. Did I understand you wrong and you meant getting insurance for the hardware? independent56: yes appguru: That's not worth the hassle IMO. Even if you had hardware in the 1k range, it wouldn't be worth the hassle of dealing with the insurance, or paying the insurance fees. independent56: but im not an adult™ so i guess it might not exist, and could be a too much cost. appguru: I'm not an adult either, but there are few cases in which I see insurance as necessary appguru: Mainly to protect against worst-case-scenarios, which could quickly financially ruin you. Like scratching a Maserati (hence car insurance). Benrob0329: suddenly feels old independent56: i hope there is a way to insure every part of your life with one insurance, like car, ahrdware, home, and everything appguru: That would be terribly expensive independent56: this is where "i am not an adult™" comes into play, Warr1024: appguru: (from #-dev) a "kid-friendly" badge sounds like a nice idea, but problematic in practice appguru: kilbith, here we go: what do you suggest to fix the problem? Warr1024: There are too many cultural norms and even personal choices wrapped up in what content would be considered appropriate for a kid... appguru: Warr1024: why problematic? appguru: we would have to define "kid-friendly" first sfan5: having some sort of official branding for child-friendly servers is going to be cause a big mess once some server admin fails to enforce that at some point in time Warr1024: There are standards like PEGI or something we could try to use, assuming we could come up with an arbitration method to actually resolve disagreements about what actually qualifies. Warr1024: I'm not even talking about chat swear filters, even just "is this horror mod 'too scary' for this audience" is gonna be hard enough. appguru: the only scary mods (actually game) I know are still in WIP stage (IKEA) Warr1024: What we currently have is the ability for server admins to advertise on their own terms what they think the kid-friendliness level of a server is, but we rely on mostly reputational enforcement. rubenwardy: Also any curation puts more liability on us Warr1024: Ironically there are a lot of servers out there that are targeted to a younger audience but has stuff in there that I could argue is unhealthy or inappropriate for them on it, while I run a server that just barely stops short of having a "no kids" policy but parents love to bring their kids onto it because of the educational potential of the game mechanics XD Benrob0329: Allowing severs to have content tags would be nice (as well as filtering for them) Benrob0329: Both "has" and "does not have" tags would be ideal Warr1024: Warning children away from certain servers seems fine to me, with it being left ambiguous about any servers not so marked. Warr1024: Actually asserting that any server IS child-friendly in any way is more than I'd be comfortable committing to though. Warr1024: There is a certain baseline level of risk inherent in any online play anyway, and concerned parties would do well to keep it in mind. independent56: child-friendly is not child-welcoming. independent56: my server is child-ok. Warr1024: I have a "no excess swearing in chat" rule. That means you have to be okay with SOME swearing. In practice if we know someone brought their kid with them to play, we try to tone it down, but we can't make promises. Warr1024: The gameplay itself is another issue. There's nothing "bad" for children in it, but it's pretty harsh if you don't have at least a high school level education. Benrob0329: Technically, because IKEA is more reliant on survival-horror (the scary part is mostly just trying not to die in slightly disturbing circumstances) it'll probably be fine for older kids, even in it's eventual released state (unless I add some deep physiological horror elements to areas like has been discussed) Warr1024: Heh, I feel like maybe there's a certain age past which it's unhealthy NOT to have experienced some psychological horror though. independent56: what do you mean "harsh"? all that lua? Benrob0329: well, maybe shallow psychological horror is the better term independent56: such as...? appguru: gore Warr1024: By "harsh" I mean the game is difficult and unyielding. Benrob0329: App: That's the opposite of psychological horror, generally speaking appguru: That'd be called "visual horror" then? independent56: Yeah, stuff which makes you think "oh my god i am a monster why am i like this" appguru: That's not all that shallow anymore I'd say Warr1024: Haha, that's the best kind Benrob0329: There are other kinds, but yes that is one example Warr1024: NodeCore has psychological horror elements but it's very deeply buried, until you realize that every bad thing that's happened to you in gameplay was because of a decision you made :-) Warr1024: Psychological horror: some assembly required. Warr1024: That would actually be a good way to describe IKEA too, though in a very different sense. Warr1024: I believe that the uncanny-valley faceless staffers in IKEA actually fall under a specific "body horror" subgenre Warr1024: though tbh the fact that everything in MT is lo-fi so faceless dudes look totally not out of place kind of ruins that. Benrob0329: My idea has been for the path to the end game to be somewhat disturbing with it's soundscape and feel, with less than comforting results by the end. Perhaps psychological horror isn't the right term either though, since it's not trying to get in your head as much as it'd be trying to make you hate the landscape and feel the dread of your circumstances. Benrob0329: Then again, that is kind of trying to "get in your head" Benrob0329: Warr: Just wait until I have fun making new animation sets for them :P Warr1024: The funny thing about NC is that I never put any psychological horror or existential dread stuff in the game itself, I just lowered the background noise level enough that you can start to hear that stuff inside your own head... Benrob0329: Truly, the most terrifying things already live inside your head twoelk: "hate the landscape" ?? but I like visiting IKEA independent56: the background noise? i just listen to music on the background, because i like music. it makes the voices in my head go away twoelk: haven't tried the IKEA game as of lately - are those little example furnished rooms also included? Benrob0329: Sidenote, I'd love it if we could define a sound's source as a type of node, but only for the positional side of things Benrob0329: twoelk: There are basic Warehouse and Showroom departments as of right now Warr1024: What do you mean by "sound source as a type of node?" Benrob0329: positional audio source Warr1024: you can play sounds positionally, you just need to be responsible for doing it yourself. Warr1024: you can't make it emit from ALL nearby nodes of a given type though unless you send multiple play commands. Benrob0329: Right Warr1024: You can't really do this for music though, or any sound that's very long Benrob0329: I'd like to have that without having to mess with say, moving an entity around (though that's probably what I'll do though when I revamp the music code) twoelk: I once experimented with a fountain as sorce of noice - was nice sometimes and a PITA to keep working correctly at times, kept getting unloaded or freezing in mid note Warr1024: as far as I know a sound is only delivered to players in range at the time it's started, and if a player walks into range later while it should still be playing, I don't think they hear it... Warr1024: If you could have the server track state of positional sound "entities" server-side and replicate them to clients that wander into range of them, and add the ability to start playing a sound with a time offset within the sound file, you could come pretty close to having background music coming from speakers. Benrob0329: I suppose I don't need to use entities, I can just keep track of the starting timestamp for the song and start up a new sound with the correct offset, and remove the old one when the player leaves Benrob0329: *leaves the area Warr1024: sound_play appears not to have an offset option Warr1024: according to lua_api Warr1024: feels like it otter twoelk: what happens if I hop around on sound-area borders? Warr1024: granted, there are a number of things that could be improved about sound_play, like the ability to schedule a sound to start at an exact future timestamp relative to some common point of reference, like when the player actually emerged client-side, so that musical things can be timed properly. Warr1024: I haven't tested the "sounds don't player for players entering the sound area" thing since like 0.4.16 specifically but I have no reason to believe it's been addressed since then... sfan5: Minetest is missing a common timeline between client and server in general Warr1024: I did have some sound samples I wanted to play that were like 30 second loops at the time, but I had to cut them down into smaller segments or else a player had time to approach the thing without hearing the sound before it suddenly started on the next cycle. twoelk: don't we have a church bells mod with a scheduled time of chiming? Benrob0329: You're right, there is no sound offset parameter Benrob0329: I could've sworn there was Warr1024: Having a full common timeline would be nice, but at least just for sound it'd be good to be able to do like "midi music" sorts of things without network jitter killing the timing. Warr1024: There have been a number of no-go mod ideas around dynamic or generated music, or musical sequencing boxes, etc. that end up only working in SP if at all... Warr1024: Some people are very sensitive to bad timing in music, though if your network connection is anything less than ideal, you don't have to be all that sensitive even. sfan5: SSCSM will give modders the ability to put bandaid on it sfan5: still not good ofc Warr1024: Nobody seems to like bandaids much but they sure do beat bleeding. Benrob0329: I suppose barring a starting offset, moving a couple entities between sound sources would probably work Warr1024: You don't need timing offsets if you chop your music up into segments and play them in sequence ... but then you'd need the ability to actually carefully time the start point of sounds and not be subject to network jitter. Benrob0329: Alternatively, being able to A) specify multiple sources as-if it were multiple sounds and B) change that at runtime would work Benrob0329: But that would require more control over sounds via handles twoelk: some bandaids are made to look appealing to kids; good enough to trigger the "me too" effect Warr1024: Supposedly in theory you could increase the maximum audible range. The problem would be that what you'd have to increase it TO is the amount of distance a player could conceivably travel during one play-through of your song, which could cover a LOT of speaker nodes. Warr1024: This is about where I would start to question certain assumptions, like the idea that an otherworldly IKEA inhabited by faceless creatures would play on their speakers sounds that we as humans would recognize as music. Warr1024: If you make the speakers play something that's naturally cacophonous then the fact that you can't exactly control it would make it easier to fail to notice the seams. twoelk: I once tried to set up a market with changing sounds as I wander about between different sellers shouting their offers. Never got any where near good enough to even show anybody Benrob0329: I suppose I could keep a database of speaker node positions and play the sounds at all of the ones in range, but that's gonna get pricey to filter with time Warr1024: Take the free/open music you were going to use, time-stretch it to about 8x length, pick random segments from it, fade in and out each one to make a pool of eerie otherworldly sounds, and then just play random ones at random timings from each speaker. Benrob0329: Doing that would probably ruin the "This almost seems normal at first" feel I want opening hours to have, though Warr1024: Also as players who have been inhabiting the IKEA from the early days we all agree that it "totally sounds normal to me" and "no idea what your'e talking about" when new players ask about the music. Benrob0329: heh Warr1024: Just don't play the music during the day, and only fade it in subtly as closing hour approaches... :-) Warr1024: tbh I don't really notice the music, or lack of music, in a store anyway. twoelk: actually if it doesnt change with time - it might give clues of its age by analyzing its style twoelk: I sometimes search for a speaker to get a clearer version of a tune that manages to get my attention - usually I get staff attention though as I wander into restricted areas Warr1024: It does bring up a lot of questions about the infinite IKEA that people struggling for survival or containment probably never really thought about. We know it's infinite and isotropic in 2 spatial dimensions but not the 3rd, but then that makes you wonder about the time dimension. Does it evolve over time or is everything there timeless and from no era in particular? Or is time perhaps a local phenomenon and you'll travel through eras MTDiscord: gradually as you move spatially? twoelk: judging by the original story it does seem to progress in time twoelk: it probably is not similar to L-space of diskworld twoelk: would be cool if it was similar in function to the world-of-ponds limbo in "The magicians nephew" with many worlds providing visitor sources Benrob0329: I'd like to get basic gameplay implemented and a beta released :P twoelk: for gameplay to work wouldn't a restaurant area be needed for basic food supply? twoelk: and a reason to leave safebase twoelk: of course the restaurant area would need to be protected so one could not build there but the vending machines or maybe food stands may be used twoelk: gtg twoelk: bye Warr1024: You only need one gameplay loop for a beta. Just like "you build, staff destroy" is enough. You don't need hunger or anything immediately. benrob0329: !tell twoelk Already planned, though I don't remember if I had any ideas for how to keep players from building there MinetestBot: benrob0329: I'll pass that on when twoelk is around Warr1024: Wait, why shouldn't you be allowed to build in the dining areas? Benrob0329: Good point Benrob0329: I suppose it's just an optimal strategy that would take away some of the challenge, but then again the Staff probably need to go there to replenish the food Warr1024: Either that or fouling up the cafeteria by building there will cause the food to go bad. Warr1024: Or maybe players can be allowed to build there and have unlimited food, but they'll sacrifice some other resource they would have had if they had built elsewhere. Maybe you can exploit one resource for free from anywhere, but there's no single resource that's sufficient to survive indefinitely. independent_: is using the nodecore wiki cheating? Warr1024: It's not "against the rules" or anything, but be warned that once you already know a thing, it's very difficult to get back the thrill of discovering it yourself. independent_: Is it normal behaviour for the fire to extinguish itself after? i might be hitting it accidently during the pummeling... and it's annoying. independent_: oh wait it is Warr1024: You cannot put fire out by hand in nodecore independent_: hmm... independent_: yay fire working :-> independent_: now i have a bonfire independent_: Nodecore trees ar eboring. it slowly grows, not like saplings suddenly popping up, killing those who walk over them. specing: sofar: but a bit too bleak - everything is too gray sofar: specing: hah, try some of the levels. But yeah the color palette is on purpose a bit less saturated sofar: specing: I went for a look that stands out a bit and doesn't do oversaturated textures sofar: there's enough of that already ;) Warr1024: sofar: is it possible to reset a box? I'm not sure but I think I might have broken one of the tutorial ones, maybe hitting buttons too fast? Warr1024: Welp, I'm stuck on box 27... Warr1024: I see a mechanism but I'm all out of buttons to push to activate it Warr1024: n/m, that was pretty well hidden, considering the level had such simple geometry overall sofar: heh sofar: there's walkthrough videos for the tutorial parts just for that :) independent_: ugh... nodecore is horrible. i started playing at 19:00, but when i looked up from my computer, i saw it was 22:57. ugh! i need to submit an issue - "gameplay too immersive" independent_: goodnight Warr1024: :-D Warr1024: I'm used to expecting there to be timing issues if you trigger mechanisms too quickly so that's why I misled myself into thinking I might have busted box 27 Warr1024: though I assumed that tutorial levels get the most testing ... but then, not everyone actually checks race conditions Warr1024: but the button I needed was pretty obvious, it was just hard to reach with the sneak mechanic disabled and my acrophobia. independent_: Just finished backing up t the hdd independent_: just need to cpy over some MT backups independent_: i need to make another copy for remote backup, then i will be fine. erlehmann: Minetest has builtin support for prometheus, you don't necessarily need that mod erlehmann: rubenwardy oh that's news to me! copygirl: Hi everyone, I was wondering if you can help me. A while ago I moved my Minetest server from running in its own folder to simply running it in my user's .minetest folder. copygirl: Ever since then, we have not been able to take damage, as if enable_damage was set to false (or not set, as I heard it's the default?). copygirl: However, both the minetest.conf and world.mt file have enable_damage set to true. copygirl: The only thing I think that could be off is that the world is not in .minetest/worlds/world, but simply in .minetest/world copygirl: I'm running the game nodecore (which respects the enable_damage setting) and was told to ask in here. copygirl: Oh yeah, we are running Minetest 5.3.0. BuckarooBanzai: !seen MTDiscord MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: mtdiscord was last seen at 2021-07-05 18:40:00 UTC on #minetest-hub independent56: sad independent56: acc no, i hope it stays away independent56: !seen MTDiscord MinetestBot: independent56: mtdiscord was last seen at 2021-07-06 05:11:50 UTC on #minetest-hub independent56: 0_0 independent56: what does YOU use docker for? sfan5: copygirl: did you update any mods in the meantime? I remember that being a problem sometimes sfan5: you could also test your hypothesis by moving it back and seeing if it starts working again totenkoph: how do I check the recipe table totenkoph: in linux sfan5: with minetest game? there's a recipe tab ingame since 5.4 otherwise look for a craftguide mod totenkoph: okay totenkoph: why aren't there animals in my local game? totenkoph: or lava as i dig down..there is no creature Kimapr: independent56: you are actually in a better internet situation than me. my ip is not only dynamic, it's shared. i can't, like, host public stuff on it, it's behind carrier grade nat BuckarooBanzai: totenkoph: what mods (specifically for mobs) do you have installed? totenkoph: none totenkoph: what mods do I need to simulate an average minecraft game BuckarooBanzai: what game? minetest_game, mineclone? totenkoph: minetest Kimapr: if you want minecraft but not minecraft, use mineclone2. it's a minetest game (minetest is an engine) that tries to mimic minecraft as closely as possible BuckarooBanzai: the minetest_games comes without mobs, you need to add some yourself, for example mobs_redo, mobs_monster, etc BuckarooBanzai: game* totenkoph: ah okay thank you Kimapr: totenkoph: go to content tab in the main menu, click on "browse mods", you can install games and mods from there. mineclone is probably what you're looking for totenkoph: https://i.imgur.com/2w15gPA.png totenkoph: where? BuckarooBanzai: totenkoph: i think you need to update your minetest version :/ copygirl: sfan5: I'm not entirely sure but I might have updated Nodecore itself. totenkoph: alright.. Kimapr: totenkoph: what's your minetest version? Kimapr: seems like 0.4 totenkoph: 0.4.17 totenkoph: im compiling the latest one from github now totenkoph: got it..downloading BuckarooBanzai: totenkoph: you might want to use a branch from earlier this year, the current master needs the new mtirrlicht stuff afaik (which makes it a _bit_ more complex to install) BuckarooBanzai: 5.4.1 was the latest without it i think totenkoph: yeah that's what Im playing now but some most mods have unsatisfied dependencies totenkoph: how do i grow wheat seeds totenkoph: it grows on wet soil totenkoph: how do i make the soil wet totenkoph: ah got it independent56: the advtrains wiki might be down independent56: i can't access it BuckarooBanzai: independent56: (i don't use the forum anymore so i answer here) there are some docs on how to set it up loacally: https://github.com/minetest-monitoring/monitoring/blob/master/doc/standalone.md the whole thing is better manageable with docker though, just saying... BuckarooBanzai: *locally independent56: Hmmm... yeah docker... i am trying to learn it. Everyone likes it, and i have no idea on where i can use it. i am thinking of "installing" applications on my webserver using it. BuckarooBanzai: the dashboards can be exported on https://monitoring.minetest.land BuckarooBanzai: containers make applications more portable and reproducible IMO BuckarooBanzai: but its not for everybody i think, it adds another complexity/tool layer independent56: Hmmm... i am considering moving to a homelab. Replicating the setup approximately seems a bit messy, so i might as well migrate to docker. independent56: Oh and also, just a heads up, i uploaded the IRC message for future reference. independent56: https://pastebin.com/ZCWyDYtT independent56: should i be concerned? sfan5: no Warr1024: There should be a whole bunch of similar crap all over your logs :-) Warr1024: Welcome to the internet, check your armor and don't mind the scans... independent56: What is this? it looks like someone tried to remove stuff/install stuff... My stupid (/j), inexperienced brain is of no help Warr1024: It looks like you got vulnerability-scanned. As long as you're not running whatever broken PHP app they're trying to exploit there's little cause for concern. Warr1024: This is basically just another kind of internet weather phenomenon Warr1024: Comes with the territory of running a publicly-reachable web server. independent56: hmmm... so unconsentual pentesting? sfan5: even less, it's not a scan they're just throwing exploits at the URL the web app would be independent56: What should i do in the future? Warr1024: I mean it's a "scan" in the sense that they're scanning the internet for vulnerable hosts, rather than that they're scanning you specifically for vulnerabilities. Warr1024: If you're not vulnerable there's nothing to do. Warr1024: except maybe grow jaded. independent56: Ah... i get you. So just some lowlife trolling other people. Benrob0329: Random bots trying to break into your server is common, just be sure to keep on top of the security settings and don't leave things like root SSH login on. Warr1024: If I were to guess, rather than "trolling" they're looking to add nodes to a botnet that they can use to sell services like cryptomining or DDoS. Krock: hmm.. this mod seems kinda suspicious. https://krock-works.uk.to/minetest/modSearch.php?st=0&at=0&q=rickroll Benrob0329: Krock, the URL gives it away Warr1024: (and on the discord-side, the embed doesn't help) Krock: Benrob0329: well yes Benrob0329: You've gotta at least use some kind of a code word for it GreenXenith: Id post a "you have no power here" lotr gif or "I have no such weakness" star wars gif but I dont think IRC will display it 😏 Krock: no, for a search engine that's a bad practice Warr1024: How the hell is there no actual rickroll mod for MT? independent56: Yeah, i kinda turn on ssh for when i go to school and need to use termux to run mapserver... should disable root access.. Krock: !mod rickroll MinetestBot: Krock: Rick Roller [rickroll] by taikedz - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15649 - https://github.com/taikedz-mt/rickroll GreenXenith: also https://github.com/ChimneySwift/stickpack/ has a rickstick Warr1024: You can allow root access over ssh, but you need a damn good password, or disable passwords and only allow pubkey. If you can't maintain a pretty high security standard then you should probably just lock it down so at least they don't automatically know one correct username to attack. Krock: okay that stickpack seems funny GreenXenith: It is Warr1024: On the other hand, don't focus just on protecting root either, because xkcd 1200 Benrob0329: If I had physical server access, I'd probably just use a local access point and disable SSH entirely Benrob0329: the best security is not having anything that can be exploited :^) Warr1024: There is something to be said about just not having anything worth stealing, but unfortunately if you have an internet connection and a non-zero amount of computing power, it's worth at least minimal effort for them to try, i.e. they at least try all the turnkey exploits. independent56: Root disabled... and yeah, i need a way to use crontab to disable prot forwarding for ssh until 08:40-15:30. Benrob0329: I hope those are fake times and you didn't just reveal your server's more vulnerable times in a public channel Warr1024: Reminds me of at my old company back when they had a habit of sending all exceptions as emails to a mailing list to all the devs. We basically ignored those emails until one morning after a pentest scan when email was basically unusable because of the tens of thousands of emails that came in over the scan. Warr1024: Benrob, you don't necessarily know i56's time zone though, so... independent56: They aren't... maybe i should tone it to breaktimes at school Krock: > -independent56- TIME Tue Jul 6 20:06:36 Krock: UTC+1 Benrob0329: RIP Warr1024: When it comes to security don't try to do anything too clever or tricky. Just turn off what you don't need, have decent passwords, use pubkeys where feasible, don't install random shit, don't run anything written in PHP 😏 ... independent56: SSH turned off in port forwarding on router Benrob0329: Timezones are fairly easy to guess based on context too though, like I had guessed that 56 was probably from the UK or close by (though I can't remember what clued me in on that right now) independent56: 0_0 (cries in XAMPP wordpress and dokwuiki) Warr1024: If you block admin SSH access then if someone manages to get in via a web server zero-day while you're away from home, then you can't get in to stop them from using your machine for whatever until SSH is back up ... so maybe not the best trick. Warr1024: Haha, PHP is one of the worst languages so of COURSE a ton of really useful stuff is written in it. independent56: Eh, "sudo su" is the way i do it. Warr1024: There is sudo -i Benrob0329: as well as sudo -s independent56: how do i disable them? ddg returns nothing. independent56: I spent all of breaktime memorising my ip adress. independent56: What a lowlife i am... specing: it sure looks like you got pwned, independent56 independent56: Where? on that paste i showed? independent56: https://imgur.com/a/uQAu4tR independent56: So... the scan is like a storm. A nice spectacle to look at, but when you have an improperly built house (server), it may all collapse.... ah, i get it now. independent56: Should it be easy as just changing some router settings to get the webserver up? Becua ei have heard you ahev to call the ISP and get them to open up the neighbourhood port. sfan5: huh? ingar: most ISPs don't open port 80 on home connections (at least here), it's better to rent a VPS independent56: Hmm... Yeah, i had to do it myself on the router. But nothing that imtimidating. independent56: And my VPS? a PS homelab. Warr1024: First of all, it's port 443, not 80 :trollface: Warr1024: Some ISPs block common ports, but not all and there's no absolute standard for it. The old Microsoft ports like 135 are the most common ones I've seen. 80/443 seems like a toosup. Warr1024: tossup dammit independent56: oh... w-w- wow... Warr1024: I've had ISPs that have a "no servers" policy but I basically just make the "landing" page of my web server look like it could be a router admin interface or something and only give out links to internal URLs. It's all over TLS anyway so it's harder for them to prove that any real "web serving" is going on. independent56: hmm... let me check EE's docs (my ISP is obvious from any IP lookup) Warr1024: They aren't necessarily gonna tell you either, tbh. There's always a "we reserve the right to take measures we unilaterally deem reasonable to 'manage the network'" clause ... but then, they often aren't actually watching unless you create enough traffic to cause a problem or make it into like the top 1% of consumers. ingar: hence the VPS option, screw my IPS independent56: hmm, intresting. so a rule of thumb is "sure, operate a server. just be careful it stays a backyard project" Warr1024: It should be possible to get a VPS decent enough to run an MT server for between $5 and $10 USD per month. Warr1024: If you've got an income, VPS is a good option; even if you want the actual hardware to be physically local to you, having a VPS to front for you and act as a proxy or something can be nice. sfan5: I expect just about any ISP to have a no servers policy on thier consumer plans sfan5: perhaps with restrictions on commerciality sfan5: in short personal, non-commercial stuff is extremely unlikely to cause any issues independent56: ah, nice. Warr1024: Yeah, the problem with ISP "no server" policies is that servers are hard to really define, and anything CAN be a server if they want it to be and they generally offer no meaningful dispute power to consumers. So flying under the radar is about the best you can hope for :-) ingar: I just don't like opening too many ports to my home server Ingar: I ran an MT server on an ARM VPS once though, it ran quite fine actually Warr1024: There's a good chance they're too busy dealing with that one guy on your network segment who's used 60% of the bandwidth alone and gotten 2 copyright notices already, so it's usually not something to sweat too bad. independent56: nice, ipv6 independent56: (about joiner) Warr1024: Opening ports is kinda a PITA. I kind of like the fact that with HTTPS you can mux everything with enough reverse proxies and have an arbitrarily-large URL space to allocate from, and the actual specific services can be kept from evesdroppers that way.. independent56: Meh, for me it's fine. To open i set a name, device, ports, and protocol. to close one, i just redirect it to something which will never be online again. Warr1024: I just don't like having to do network management stuff. independent56: I love it. it's an escape from the monotony of watching youtube all day. Warr1024: Also the next natural evolution from running an MT server at home is running 3 of them :-D independent56: i'm gonna restart my router in a weird attempt to enable ipv6 independent56: bye independent56: Turns out i broke the router, fuck me. independent56: If mum was at home, then i would have been punished severely. independent56: lesson? "Dont touch things you don't know about" Warr1024: If you never touch things you don't know about then you'll probably always not know about them. Warr1024: but sometimes getting punished is part of the lesson too :-) independent56: haha... my punishment was a terrifying 5 minutes of thinking about the factory reset independent56: luckly i managed to conenct locally and disable ipv6. so muh nicer independent56: yeah... i shouldn't touch misson-critical systems like router settings unles si know what i'm doing. Docker is fine to play with. But not rm -r /. Jordach: you know you can literally google what is my IP rather than trying to even remember it Jordach: probably even a shell script for it rubenwardy: haha, I did the same thing when I was 14 and trying to host a MT server independent56: i need to remember it, as i have no domain. Often, i end up showing it [my wiki] to teachers at shcool on chromebooks. rubenwardy: ended up using an ethernet cable and telnet to connect to the router and fix it using command line rubenwardy: I don't know how I did that without the internet independent56: Wait... minetest was around when you were 14? Warr1024: independent, you really could use a dynamic DNS Warr1024: yeah, ruben young af apparently independent56: i wish my mother would buy me a domain rubenwardy: Hm, 15 actually. I'm 24, and I joined in 2012 sfan5: do you know about free ddns services? Warr1024: I've found a number of free ddns services. I've got a paid one, which has proven more reliable, but I've kept a couple free ones around as backups. independent56: well... minetest was released at 2012 (i think), so that means... (2021-2012)+14, that means 23 independent56: oh wait their age was rvealed independent56: hmmm... tell me more please. j45: https://minetest.land/ rubenwardy: No, Minetest was created on 2010-10-10 rubenwardy: I believe that's the agreed upon birthday sfan5: independent56: http://www.duckdns.org/ independent56: close enough rubenwardy: http://www.minetest.land/ j45: (the link i sent above is a free dynamic DNS) rubenwardy: (www. not the root domain) Lone_Wolf: minetest.land ftw j45: Yh independent56: http://56i.duckdns.org independent56: it works! j45: Nice one independent56: but i do set my sights on a subdomainless domain independent56: one which is truly mine, where i can make my own paid subdomain to domain service >:-) j45: :} independent56: subdomains of subdomains make sense here: wiki.56i.duckdns.org, wordpress.56i.duckdns.org... independent56: looked at the access log, looks like someone was exploring my webserve GreenXenith: >Minetest was created on 2010-10-10 GreenXenith: what an awesome day to be born independent56: yeah... i wasn't born on 2006-06-06, i was born on 2006-08. wwar: was born in 14th march wwar: Einstein guy borned that day too GreenXenith: guys GreenXenith: Minetest was made on 2010-10-10 which can be expressed as 10-10-10. 101010 is 42 in binary. Minetest is the answer. wwar: Haha, minecraft guys dont have similar thing Extex: I can't get farming redo to work Extex: It just remains as the mtg farming Extex: Isn't it supposed to override it? sfan5: easiest way is to actually delete farming from MTG GreenXenith: Its supposed to override though Warr1024: A second-level domain is not "truly yours", it's only 33% less not-yours than a third-level :-/ Extex: Ok I got it to work Extex: Had to put it in worldmods though appguru: Or just go for snake case and get wiki_56i.duckdns.org, wordpress_56i.duckdns.org, ... erlehmann: +++ ATH0 Warr1024: Pretty sure you need a 2 second pause after +++ but not a space... independent56: shhh... let me tell you a secret: there is an easy way to run minetest from terminal how you like it: "up+up+up+up+down+enter" j45: Independent56: im 15 years old and have no free time xD 😅 AristotIe: on linux, where does worldedit save schematics? sfan5: world folder IIRC sfan5: pretty much the only possibility because mod security prevents writing to other folders independent56: Instead of 2.26.38.198, my IP is 95.148.245.87. sfan5: happens independent56: I hate dynamic IP. independent56: Whats the name of that thing which adds live statistics for server, like lag, builds, and stuff like that? rubenwardy: prometheus rubenwardy: https://wiki.minetest.net/Server_Metrics_using_Prometheus independent56: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22473 Found it rubenwardy: Minetest has builtin support for prometheus, you don't necessarily need that mod rubenwardy: that mod has a lot more statistics though rubenwardy: CTF runs a fork of Minetest with more stats independent56: Hmm... I wish it was more like mapserver - a selfhosted way to run statistics of your server. with mapserver, it is how you see what to explore. with this, it is about insight into the servers erlehmann: i think i figured out how to easily add rumble support to minetest erlehmann: anyone working on that area? specing: erlehmann: rumble? independent56: https://imgur.com/a/5eYAPGy I dont get it. i try to make a quadrule track, and avdtrains screws me up. independent56: ahaha i downloaded a map from LF, didnt do anything ecept open it, and ran out of memory XD Ingar: I have 4 sticks of 8GiB DDR4-2400 for sale independent56: For £5? Yes please! independent56: how do i reset all track sections in advtrains? I want to do something litkk "/reset_tcb here 16" or "/reset_tcb *" independent56: I need to visit a server which actually uses the bridger mod. it's fustrating trying to copy images. independent56: VanessaE What is that mod in your server that splits unfied inventory into groups so you dont have to resort to searching? calcul0n_: independent56, i think pandorabox has the bridger mod independent56: Hmm... will look VanessaE: independent56: it's a part of UI. independent56: How do i get it on my server? do i wield it? do i click a download link and do "enable_local_mod_downlaoded_thing = true" VanessaE: wat independent56: What do you mean? independent56: Like, how is it part of UI? is it part of the core? independent56: Oh wait sorry, unified invoentory VanessaE: Ui as in Unified Inventory, duh :P independent56: So i am running an outdated version? 0_0 VanessaE: that categories feature was added in UI git some months ago. independent56: "months" * independent56: starts git clone VanessaE: commit 6e6383f0821908e762d8fde8a13d7a083a642553 VanessaE: Author: Oversword VanessaE: Date: Mon Apr 5 19:07:14 2021 +0100 VanessaE: ok so a few months. :) independent56: I am gonna quickly take some of pandora's mods... i like them! independent56: the amount of progress in the tech industry terrifies me /j gtg Warr1024: "I found this bug in NodeCore alpha" " That's because you're running an outdated version" "But I downloaded this only 2 hours ago?" "That's why you're only 3 versions behind." VanessaE: heh independent56: i wish progress was that slow Warr1024: Slow is the reason NodeCore itself split off from alpha; it used to follow the alpha cycle. The main release only gets updated like every week or two. Major packages should probably consider going to a multiple cycle model like that. independent56: Hmm. independent56: i have got the pandorabox mods i like, and am in the process of copying the world directory so i can test compatibility on the live world. independent56: No players rely on me to have the world online, so i can just run on the live version like it's no big deal Warr1024: If you're calling NodeCore "slow" though then I'd really like to know what package you're comparing it against, because NC is considered like a pathological case for rolling releases... independent56: I was joking. VanessaE: note to self: update NC on my server later. it must be 50 versions out-of-date by now :P independent56: XD Warr1024: Oh damn, gitlab's analytics are limited to 2000 commits so I can't see the full data on the dev branch 🙄 independent56: I've just found out about PHP's "easter eggs" (security vulnrabilities). How horrible they truly are. specing: Wow, someone still uses gitlab? Get githubbed asap specing: you could be supporting the proprietary closed-source monopoly today! VanessaE: heh independent56: haha VanessaE: it could be worse Warr1024: I use git; the lab part is just incidental, and I actively avoid any lock-in-esque features. VanessaE: he could have chosen notabug or one of those other oddball sites like TenPlus1, or rolled his own like the advrains guys :) VanessaE: Warr: to be fair going with a decent site has at least one advantage: a built-in public bug/pull request tracker. VanessaE: hosting your own gitxxxx instance means you gotta come up with some other alternative for bugs/PRs, like ancient stuff like a mailing list or something specing: url = https://github.com/minetest-mirrors/advtrains.git specing: despicable specing: some idiot went and started pulling everything to github specing: same with /minetest-mods sfan5: giving people the choice to use platforms they want, how horrible VanessaE: it IS horrible if the choices offered all suck for the end user :P Warr1024: If I didn't want people mirroring my stuff then I wouldn't have made it open source. Jonathon: Specing: always talking down people that dont agree with your views: "despicable" specing: No, only on people that are long-term shooting themselves (and everyone else) in the foot specing: Warr you misunderstood, it's not about that independent56: Where is this "github pull"? where is the link? specing: The point is that someone decided to systematically centralise everything on GitHub, for all of Minetest Warr1024: Says "mirrors" right in the title, looks pretty clear that mirroring is the goal. specing: for all of us Warr1024: Offering a centralized version of everything sounds great for GH users, assuming they can keep the mirror up to date Warr1024: Sounds like you're not a GH user so it doesn't really affect you though. You'd just get yours from upstream specing: It also makes it convenient to use github, as everything is centralised there and not elsewhere Jonathon: "Someone decided to systematically centralise everything on GitHub, for all of Minetest" its literally just mirror. Stop trying to project this past that. We all know if it was on gitlab or some other foss platform you most likely wouldnt even be complainimg specing: effectively pulling more people into that walled garden specing: /minetest-mods actually is systematic centralisation specing: I wouldn't be complaining because FOSS platforms aren't walled gardens Jonathon: Lol, thanks for making my point specing: the point being that I'm against walled gardens? Warr1024: Why do you hate them though? It seems like if it were a user freedom thing then you'd be forced to respect the fact that most users like walled gardens, and some even actively seek them out. If you assume users are not making informed decisions (and you'd be right in many cases but certainly not all) then you projecting your choices onto them is basically what walled gardens do. Warr1024: I don't particularly like walled gardens personally but I respect the rights of users to inflict whatever they choose on themselves, and platforms that serve that need have as much right to exist as any other. sfan5: users choosing walled gardens is a step towards having walled gardens and a monopoly, at which point individuals no longer have a choice Warr1024: I think open source has already ironically debunked the hypothesis that proprietary software forms natural monopolies. Ultimately people WANT to create and treating creativity as a scarce resource is basically absurd beyond a certain point. There is no way to control the supply. Warr1024: If they made open source software illegal then we'd just have a lot more illegal software. independent56: 1+ rubenwardy: GitHub isn't a walled garden as git is decentralised and there's open APIs for things like issues rubenwardy: Although it would be cool if issues had a git repo, like the wikia specing: fossil has in-repo issues Warr1024: I actually go as far as keeping all my issues in the git repo as plain text files. It also manages prioritization and hierarchical issues naturally that way, and forces me to keep the issues somewhat pruned. rubenwardy: I'd like there to be some activitypub or federated way to make emails that can handle rich features like line comments rubenwardy: Would be cool to make PRs between instances rubenwardy: Email patches suck rubenwardy: Well, you could hide the emails behind a nice front-end Warr1024: I've used fossil before but it felt like some of their design decisions ... each wiki page is a separate independent history branch, so their wiki effectively reinvents the single worst aspect of CVS... rubenwardy: Eek a branch per wiki page doesn't make sense rubenwardy: Git can track history per file Warr1024: I can see SOME logic to it, i.e. since wiki edits generally aren't staged across multiple pages. Warr1024: I have some wikis where I track history by just capturing snapshots of the database state using git, but that itself is sub-ideal because I miss some intermediate edits between snaps. Pexin: VanessaE: I find your views on digtrons quaint and hilarious. That is all :] VanessaE: KILL KILL KILL KILL VanessaE: :P specing: I've calculated that I'd take about 17000 years to digtron the whole map, assuming you do one 16x16 area from the surface to -31000 specing: quite surprisingly result given how fast they dig specing: surprising* specing: (with each digtron trip taking around 10 hours) Pexin: specing: what delay setting? Pexin: too low and it will bug out before completing one pass specing: Pexin: 1 node/s (the default) Pexin: HAHAHA specing: ? VanessaE: the problem with digtrons and such isn't how fast they dig or not. it's that griefers will use them to trash things, and THAT takes time to repair. VanessaE: even just scarring-up empty terrain wwar: maybe make them dig stone and materials only? Pexin: VanessaE: you must lurve chainsaws VanessaE: chainsaws are disabled on my servers :P VanessaE: besides, doesn't rollback work for those? wwar: Doesnt it lag when you enable rollback? I tried rollback once few years ago and it made the server very laggy VanessaE: not appreciably so. Pexin: the server I play, we tend to think of digtrons more frequently as buildtrons wwar: I think its better if you try to remove the ways people can use to grief wwar: Better than waiting them to grief then rollbacking i mean wwar: For digtrons, if you make them dig the stone and underground materials only, it wont be used to grief again i think wwar: Chainsaws can have range limit for example 20 blocks radius, VanessaE: right now chainsaws are broken. wwar: They are? ah, didnt know that, i used them 2 years ago VanessaE: yep. VanessaE: in a way that I won't describe here until someone more qualified than me verifies a fix ShadowNinja proposed. wwar: I see independent56: I love digtrons. they make quick work on terrible viaducts. 1+. independent56: acc no... 5+ independent56: Is there a homedecor mod, but for space shuttles? i have scifi nodes, and it is a contrast XD Krock: !mod space MinetestBot: Krock: Subspace Walker Tool [subspacewalker] by bell07 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15564 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/subspacewalker independent56: https://imgur.com/a/jU0nGdj independent56: my spaceship looks wrong with homedecore? wwar: Are devs aware of that bug where, you use a stack of nodes, place them very fast, the stack ends and some extras blocks gets placed too and only the one who placed them can see.. wwar: them sfan5: the exact conditions dunno but it's known that client side prediction sometimes can go wrong wwar: Hm, so does it deserve opening an issue sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11255 independent56: Well, in all cases it happened to me, they automatically got removed wwar: Seems like what i was mentioning wwar: It doesnt remove for me before 2-3 mins and wifi is good wwar: Seems like the node placing is faster than the thing that checks how many nodes remain in player's inventory to me.. CWz: I wonder what ever happened to RobbieF and the pixelshadow servers Benrob0329: Cat5 is still around, but I don't think his daughter ever came back for another season of the web series they were putting together. Benrob0329: Oh..oh no that was 4 years ago Benrob0329: 'Scuse me I'm gonna go have an early life crisis now /s independent56: everyone i have talked to IRL about my minetest server was like "oh, so you play minecraft". Then i have to correct them and tell them the (basic) differences. independent56: Another thing i find intresting is that people are completely different if you discuss different topics. Once i bring up something, some pople are like "dont talk about it - banned!", But if you say something else, they open up conversation. The best example i have seen is a forum post, where people are angry at me, and a few posts later have very serious discussion about advtrains, one i started. independent56: real/example quotes: "Get your a#& off our", "Yes, i consider your point... but i disagree to this extent" Gustavo6046: Hey! Gustavo6046: TenPlus1: I think I figured the issue Gustavo6046: Items do not levitate / move upward by themselves Gustavo6046: They just don't check if there is ground beneath them once they are already in the ground state Gustavo6046: Oh Gustavo6046: they do Gustavo6046: It happened once after I gave it a while, items were still on the ground but breaking the block below would have them fall. Gustavo6046: Maybe I have to wait more? Gustavo6046: Whooa there independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=nature:space What do you think of my theories? j45: Very interesting :P independent56: yeah, admins need fun too! j45: I have never heard of a sysadmin(like yourself) that has enough time to write up theories about the universe of a sandbox multiplayer game... This must be a first independent56: I'm a 14 yr old. i have plenty erlehmann: consumer hardware doesen't have docs erlehmann: (unless they got leaked, like in the case of my thinkpad) erlehmann: specing, gib thinkpad leaks lol specing: erlehmann: all you need is to know its codename. T400/R400 mobo is called malibu3 specing: then use duckduck to get the .pdf independent56: https://imgur.com/a/UyKa3gy Yay! After learning the tcb on crossing trick, i can get two trains running past each other at a junction! independent56: https://imgur.com/a/hF22TOI I finally built the pillars. independent56: "it looks like ass and you should be ashamed" independent56: Vanessa quote specing: savage Ingar: tell her it's brutalism independent56: Nah... the other pillars are so much nicer independent56: https://imgur.com/a/BYgeeVo independent56: here is the stark contrast MiniontobyPI: hey MiniontobyPI: Check my log file please: https://termbin.com/k4lf MiniontobyPI: I was restarting my servers to update the mods and then it not running becuase of a error, then i tried rebuilding but still error MiniontobyPI: pls help y5nw: I wonder why you pass "-f CMakefiles/Makefile2" to make MiniontobyPI: idk? y5nw: Oh, that's part of make MiniontobyPI: https://termbin.com/94gg MiniontobyPI: is the folder content MiniontobyPI: minetest:~/minetest $ ls lib/ MiniontobyPI: gmp jsoncpp lua MiniontobyPI: minetest:~/minetest $ MiniontobyPI: /usr/local/lib/libsqlite3.so.37.12 Is the one i got, but it wants to use an older one for some reason independent56: I'm just wondering, why do so many railways on servers have sidings? what's their use? sfan5: try explicitly rerunning cmake using "cmake ." y5nw: independent56: depends. Some allow access to freight stations; some are used as bypasses y5nw: (that's what I can think of so far) independent56: ah, cool. independent56: What about the kind with a bumper at the end? y5nw: some sort of depot I suppose? y5nw: Some might also be used for reversing the train (e.g. in mountains) independent56: hmm, makes sense. I might use one to temporarly store a prototype train for my volcano express. It can be released when the interlocking is finished. VanessaE: [07-03 05:50] "it looks like ass and you should be ashamed" VanessaE: Yep. absolute shit. make that one into fertilizer. VanessaE: ;) independent56: XD independent56: NEVER let me use worldedit /j VanessaE: haha y5nw: I wonder if I should start writing a junction builder/planner for advtrains. Then it would be crap :P VanessaE: independent56: but you know, sometimes I wish there was a WE feature or tool that would make placing the piers easy. you know, punch a node to set [1] or to place the pier, with nice contours at the top, and embedding itself gracefully a few meters into the seafloor independent56: Hmmm.... what i do is do things seperetly. i build a nice top, then copy it. i then get a straight piller, drive it somehwere like -100, and copy that over. VanessaE: well that works fine for a fixed-length pier with no fancy design but unless it's a centered column, you'd only be able to do one side of the bridge, and you couldn't automagically put a nice cap or base on it. VanessaE: think two-column suspension bridges like the Golden Gates vs single-column like the Sunshine Skyway VanessaE: I mean, you WE-in a long-ass 2-3 km flyover, then have to go back and build all the columns/piers by hand VanessaE: teeeeeeeeeeeedious. independent56: But it is the shared pain of minetest players. It's your punishment for building that long bridge! y5nw: Use a digtron that builds pillars every x meters. Problem solved VanessaE: digtron! KILL KILL KILL VanessaE: :P independent56: I remember when i built part of a viaduct by hand in a server, then i was told to use a digitron because i was causing "immense pain" and "it looks bad anyways". It's a bit sad it's use has dissapeared now. MiniontobyPI: sfan5: I did that too: $cmake . -DBUILD_CLIENT=0 -DBUILD_SERVER=1 -DENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP=1 -DENABLE_LEVELDB=0 -DENABLE_POSTGRESQL=0 -DENABLE_SPATIAL=0 -DENABLE_GETTEXT=0 -DENABLE_CURSES=0 -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1; sfan5: if that doesn't work delete CMakeCache.txt first independent56: I'm just wondering, why do so many railways on servers have sidings? what's their use? VanessaE: nostalgia. independent56: In this case, you can look at the world's biggest and most realistic server: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siding_(rail)#Functions independent56: I was replying to my own stupidity VanessaE: where I grew up, it wasn't uncommon to build actual trestles/bridges with railings, perhaps for worker protection, I'm not sure. MiniontobyPI: oke VanessaE: oh a siding is something different MiniontobyPI: i removed CMakeCache.txt MiniontobyPI: then redid the cmake MiniontobyPI: ld.so: cmake: can't load library 'libcurl.so.26.9' MiniontobyPI: Killed MiniontobyPI: oh wait MiniontobyPI: it works MiniontobyPI: (I was updating the files) independent56: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/USvTqVGAfJN_SxG53sXfa3tnaQ8GCojzxiHatcIAuxqX4aib6BbE3-3NDxTC9tQtv5ZGb5IDw0TTXAtFrd8XdTSOz4U8C0hQpxCKH1sv2oDvdrJVmkpgt3t-Pv2z3jYqFbsrROCExJdstck4yfnQ5maEdMX_s9OhAnOZDEk0u_7Cy00Ybgh7fsd_zCes9IKcX9ARFo_iJrHj0yHDQ_c5cYMtKygvBl74x3usSbp9ABWnOQmJd2ywIpOGRb9h3N5aVt3TO00B1vm2jfly-Kvo_jbSEV1NimNkqAqhEj8BVRSZxR2gzi4nPRx6l_osc4jH6xOuxJuu-hQVAwqGAMUdRWEUIrSDgRIQ3VsN-kIkHlgacACpaJ-d-Sc7BTN1tpewPBRciu0yBZfOlSGc10sl8RsSSkrlUOskL independent56: k902s42JCHTkQbpZXNGvJWs5iopFq69VmA0FZVDxl0nVGEaeJbqxrdygfa_DRi_l2QprAVQlpq1t31yVT8AtyR-uxkMVJDPnK7_x7gMrgAiiqua4LqDQ69Yq6k-NLjP9POnPRkZcQz22nd1OnmN-kb9BzfSxtfOSkmEkay-A-Bu4ELIWRyEwDli6LhFSezUUIAlyG1rteHU6TwFrb7ZFaf783uA9MpoqATO3UnkvARVBNA2HbYrUnPBhHuyNrzTF--3NJREQMF2RMb-Jgmr1Eet7qg41XU3TvX0YGK81KvZOCuNT8-Xau4=w1224-h918-no?authuser=0 independent56: our local viaduct has a handrail independent56: and sorry, i forgot i needed a link shortener specing: > VanessaE | I mean, you WE-in a long-ass 2-3 km flyover, then have to go back and build all the columns/piers by hand specing: Imagine having to build it all by hand VanessaE: independent56: your [not] stupidity aside :P players just like to build realistically sometimes, that's all. I mean, look on my Traintable server. it's still in its infancy but players treat it mostly like reality. rails have sidings, dead spurs, guarded bridges, 2by2 track turnouts, the whole bit. MiniontobyPI: [100%] Linking CXX executable ../bin/minetestserver independent56: https://imgur.com/a/TGBMvZE MiniontobyPI: [100%] Built target minetestserver MiniontobyPI: sfan5: thanks VanessaE: independent56: https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/worldmaps/Traintable_World/map.html#21/-210.00000/-513.25000 (like I said, still in its infancy yet) independent56: wow independent56: i prefer LF's map for stealing track ideas, but yours works. independent56: I wish i could play on your server, but my computer lags far too much specing: independent56: how long before your own server becomes unplayable for you? independent56: 0_0 independent56: I mean, it works fine on literally most other servers, but i guess vanessa's server is far too haevy for my computer' independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=guidelines:vehicles and i am opposed to the roads here VanessaE: so turn off HDX ;) VanessaE: clients generally need the better part of 2 GB to run well on Dreambuilder servers. 8+ if you use HDX :) independent56: and me, with only 8 measly GB VanessaE: (which is also why it takes a top of the line model to play on one, if you use a phone/tablet) independent56: So... how to turn off? what is the setting name? VanessaE: it's a texture pack, which you're probably not using :P independent56: oh... so i reenable my own? VanessaE: oh you really were using it??? VanessaE: I was just making a joke :) VanessaE: but yeah you'd need to switch back to something lightweight if you only have 8 GB. or try a lower resolution version independent56: i wasn't. But still, i might try running in a smaller window? VanessaE: wont' help. VanessaE: maybe your OS just eats too much of your RAM VanessaE: 8GB isn't all that much for a modern PC anymore VanessaE: mine has 16 GB and sometimes seems to just barely get by independent56: https://imgur.com/a/fGU0Vzr independent56: works well specing: maybe independent56 needs a LDX texture pack specing: VanessaE: web browsers eat it all Ingar: flat colors specing: not OS VanessaE: specing: good point VanessaE: though on Windows the browser almost IS the OS VanessaE: :P Ingar: a lightweight linux desktop runs in 2-4G, for windows I recommend 8GB min and 16GB if you do any real work. 256GB if you use Teams independent56: XD Ingar: for a new PC 32GB looks like the future proof option VanessaE: top - 08:06:53 up 2 days, 15:54, 1 user, load average: 1.26, 0.62, 0.55 VanessaE: Tasks: 292 total, 1 running, 291 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie VanessaE: %Cpu(s): 5.0 us, 3.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 91.1 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.6 si, 0.0 st VanessaE: MiB Mem : 16007.7 total, 4769.1 free, 6445.6 used, 4793.0 buff/cache VanessaE: MiB Swap: 16384.0 total, 16384.0 free, 0.0 used. 8859.0 avail Mem VanessaE: ^ Debian 10, XFCE, just a bunch of browser windows, hexchat, and a couple of terminals open, plus my media player running Ingar: VanessaE: https://github.com/IngarKCT/sysinfo VanessaE: oh hexchat has that command, but the above ^ is more specific :) Ingar: I admit I'm currently in Windows though :p VanessaE: my condolences. :) Ingar: no worries, it's a beast. plenty of spare cpu cycles to waste on background snooping VanessaE: haha Ingar: but in all ernst, 16GB still seems to be enough for most applications these days Ingar: and since the new gen consoles have 16GB I don't see that changing very soon VanessaE: I keep eyeing a new computer, but every time I think the time to BUY comes around, something stops me from pulling the trigger on it. recently, just all the G*d damned prices going through the roof, but just a few days ago I bought new monitors, which was not cheap (though i did pay a good price for what I got) Ingar: one thing's for sure, NOW is definetly NOT the time to buy a computer VanessaE: yeah VanessaE: the build I had my eye on is priced at like twice what it's worth Ingar: I could sell my 5700XT and make a profit Ingar: it's insane independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=news&media=track_index.png Small index of track widths i made, so people know what to use (3-void exlusively) VanessaE: and most of that because the GPU alone is almost 4x its proper price Ingar: there are some good signs though: the crypto implosion and I saw some ^*))XT's pop up at MSRP Ingar: *6800XTs VanessaE: independent56: fwiw, you can put stuff close to tracks now. the collision handling was loosened greatly in the most recent commits VanessaE: Ingar: "implosion" isn't the right word. "downturn", sure, but it's still viable. what needs to change though is everyone needs to move to proof of stake or something else that needs no actual mining :) independent56: i saw in the forum post independent56: this is why i need a "contentdb upgrade *" something Ingar: VanessaE: personally I'm rather sceptic about the crypto business and avoid it. I mostly care about GPU prices :) VanessaE: Ingar: skepticism is healthy as long as it doesn't turn into paranoia :P specing: I assembled an iGPU computer 8 years ago and decided to postpone buying a real GPU until the state of GPUs on the market improves. Today it still only has an iGPU. It's sufficient for the vast majority of libre games, anyway. specing: I'll probably build a 64G ram GPU-less machine in a few years independent56: I am an ascended martian and as such, i have no need for "currency" VanessaE: independent56: I doubt the latest commits have made it into a new stable release yet independent56: "git clone" gang VanessaE: well sure if you run from git VanessaE: but contentdb doesn't work quite like that :) VanessaE: though you know.. rubenwardy would it be feasible for the content store to offer "latest"/"daily"/"dev" for mods presented there? (this would cause the engine/client to just git clone or pull directly from the repo, without involving the contentdb server) rubenwardy: Would require client support VanessaE: indeed, though one assumes the client would use/depend on the OS's git VanessaE: (or if there's some commonly-used library) independent56: why not make every mod it's own contentdb git repo, which mirrors the original? Then people can use git as their contentdb CLI? VanessaE: though in theory, the contentdb server could provide such a service, with each mod having a "foo-dev" equivalent package that could be installed like any stable release VanessaE: but that would require a lot of work on your part, I imagine. specing: VanessaE you could use spring's prdownloader specing: In SpringRTS, you download a lobby client, which uses prdownloader to download games/engines/maps. First two can be directly from git, but git itself is not used on client machines specing: (prdownloader is part of a lobby client) VanessaE: specing: well, you mean independent56 could :P while I do try to keep my mods on contentdb up-to-date, I'm happy to just manage things by normal git :) independent56: hmm specing: VanessaE: I'm saddened at how much common code is reimplemented across FOSS game projects VanessaE: heh VanessaE: *cough* irrlichtmt *cough* specing: isn't irrlicht upstream dead, anyway? VanessaE: dunno specing: I keep saying that all FOSS 3D RTS should migrate to SpringRTS specing: things like Warzone2100 VanessaE: but if it is, wouldn't it have been better to use something current instead of forking irr? specing: SpringRTS is the best RTS engine that I know of, by far VanessaE: (ignoring for the moment the effort that would be needed to convert over to some other engine) specing: VanessaE: yes, but idk about FOSS first person engines specing: Maybe Torque3D? specing: But the author of a Torque3D game says that upstream has gone clinically insane VanessaE: no idea VanessaE: I don't know what's really bets for this specing: but they otherwise said that Torque3D is the best FOSS first person game engine VanessaE: well MT isn't really a "first person" game in the usual sense, is it? specing: That's why I ommited the word 'shooter' VanessaE: *nod* I caught that. specing: but you are playing in first person specing: and shooting nodes with a pickaxe... VanessaE: ehhhhh... yeah I suppose you can make that argument VanessaE: though a typical first-person game doesn't have deformable terrain VanessaE: or do they now? specing: deformable terrain isnt unique to minetest VanessaE: (my experience with more traditional such games ends with Quake 3/OA) specing: the Sauerbraten engine supports it specing: iirc hecks: if you like sauerbraten, check out tesseract specing: I don't independent56: hedgewars! specing: I'm very picky specing: yes,hedgewars is very good independent56: it has deformable terrain specing: but it's not a first person [shooter] specing: hecks: I don't like sci-fi arena shooters.They are all the same with avatars ridiculously bouncing around with ridiculous weapons, unrealistic physics and a tiny arena hecks: =] ok specing: hecks: check out Uebergame for a proper FOSS shooter VanessaE: HEY don't shit on the BFG-10000. :) hecks: i only play quake. 1v1 me anyone Ingar: only painkeep independent56: Is there any existing railyward code that is online and that i can use? my own code wont work. independent56: advtrains LuaATC y5nw: Just curious: what's your code? independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:re_railyard VanessaE: hell of a good proposal there, independent56 .... a big blank page :P independent56: wait what y5nw: independent56: in your code, emptyTrack is undefined independent56: I have'nt tested my code yet. i just know it wont work. I want better, public code y5nw: also you probably want to send "BBWRD"..n.."SM" or something like that y5nw: (for the "send all trains away" thing) y5nw: as for live-checking trains, use external interrupts (<- be careful) and atc_id to check if a train is present specing: lol y5nw: live code: I would provide mine if I could be sure you can afford for psychological therapy after reading it independent56: I can afford. (yes please, anything which is working) specing: 150 gbp wont get you good therapy independent56: The best therapy is eye cancer treatment, free on the NHS. y5nw: independent56: sent with /msg. I don't think I wrote anything with shunt yards though independent56: I'm gonna also peek at the luaATC in my local LF map save y5nw: I don't think code is stored in node metadata independent56: https://imgur.com/a/B4TixmB independent56: turns out that all the railyard is analogue. no lua code, just pure interlocking> independent56: https://imgur.com/a/CXymbRG I need to make sense of this. y5nw: The first image you shows appears to be some code for a station y5nw: I'm not sure what you are asking for in terms of "make sense of this" independent56: It is. It is on the right hand side, so it's the output. independent56: i need to understand how the routes are set and how the route sets into an unoccupied section y5nw: TSS with LuaATC setup: http://git.bananach.space/advtrains.git/tree/advtrains_luaautomation/README.md?h=release-2.3.1#n99 y5nw: s/ setup// independent56: 0_0 wait... so no need for diglines and such, only checking and setting? My code will be so much easier to write! thank you! y5nw: RTFM y5nw: And I don't think you can check/set routes with digilines independent56: I meant that it would send "if event.type == "train" then send_digiline("occupied1") end" or such independent56: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/c2aa6386 Something like this? y5nw: sort of. Except you might want to chagne it a bit if you want to handle certain situations independent56: Such as...? I plan to add an if statement for the final route, to send information to the trains to "GTFO" y5nw: try it yourself independent56: hmm thx! independent56: How do i send a command to a train occupying a route? Does it involve grabbing the ID and using that to send the command? y5nw: atc_send(command) to the train on the track or atc_send_to_train(id, command) to any train independent56: But that only works if i have the ID of the train on the route. which i do not, as is the nature of railyards. y5nw: then you should find some way to get it or store it somewhere independent56: Maybe the train reverses, stops short of the signal, and if required, the signal will set a route for the train, and then the train leaves. to free the railyard up. independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:re_railyard My production version code runs, but wont set any route for the train. independent56: ok it does set the route... what??? * y5nw: facepalms y5nw: independent56: you might want to read this: https://www.lua.org/pil/4.3.4.html independent56: I know i should avoid repition. but i'm gonna keep it that way. independent56: https://imgur.com/a/KKnbhRv Why will my route set despite ther ebing a train in the section and the TCB obviously saying there is a train? y5nw: Is your route programmed correctly? It should extend beyond the TCB at the signals independent56: What do you mean? the thing i did was "finish route at end of next section" on the forks. What should i have done? y5nw: I mean the route should extend to the end of the track y5nw: Also check if the section is occupied independent56: How do i extend until the end of the track? do i do "finish route at end of next section" like i did? y5nw: Yes independent56: well... i did do that and it wont check :-/ y5nw: check if the section is occupied (and whether that is recognized by the interlocking system) independent56: It is recognised. y5nw: Then set the route. Does the section say it is reserved by the route? independent56: Oh wait... it does! Is this a roundbaout way of saying "section x is occupied"? y5nw: Depends y5nw: independent56: if a route it set then the TCB formspec looks a bit like this: https://imgur.com/a/uiAXCwl independent56: https://imgur.com/a/XZGnjF0 independent56: that's strange y5nw: Yeah, you need to check your route setup y5nw: Click the route and then "Show" independent56: https://imgur.com/a/yTMyGq4 Here - there is the route information. y5nw: That does not look weird to me independent56: https://imgur.com/a/AxvHPdY independent56: I never know that button existed, it is now so obvious! y5nw: Eh, are you sure that's the right TCB? The one with the "ROUTE" leads to a track that apparently doesn't have a train on it independent56: Yes, that was the "obvious" i am talking about. y5nw: One moment y5nw: Look at the part I marked with the red rectangle: https://imgur.com/a/oLliYGK y5nw: There is no train in the section beyond that "ROUTE" marker independent56: I know. it is obvious where i went wrong. i knew where i went wrong, the error is resolved, and now trains run perfectly in my railyard independent56: https://imgur.com/a/XrQ3JDy But my trains wont run out of my railyard. I have digimese and digilines... but it wont work and send a message. y5nw: I don't think LuaATC tracks connect downward independent56: which is why there are slight little wires next to them (look closely) y5nw: oh y5nw: I wonder why you need the "W" there independent56: In case the train is moving y5nw: I+B0WR;SM y5nw: or "BB" instead of B0 if you don't mind that independent56: ok... will that fix the issue with diglines? y5nw: That's also a matter. Maybe use digiline_send to check if there is a signal? independent56: Ok... independent56: nope, using luacontrollers wont work. y5nw: I don't remember mentioning luacontrollers at all independent56: Then what with? y5nw: Add a digiline_send call to your LuaATC code that sends a random message e.g. to a LCD (i.e. as a feedback for the particular event) y5nw: Basically similar to debugging with printf() y5nw: If you get the response from the LuaATC track then the particular event is received independent56: Ok, so it works if i use digilines and not digimese Sokomine: does anyone have experience with write/read json in mt? empty tables do not seem to be handled correctly SFENCE: Hi. Is it possible, that client ignore pitch and roll rotation of parent object (via set_attach), when calculate player camera location? Krock: it's always ignored Krock: use set_look_dir or whatever to rotate the camera it into the direction of your object Warr1024: It sounds like you won't be able to stop the camera from being manually rotated, and you can't tween smooth camera motion over a real-world network connection... SFENCE: Krock My problem is, that camera go out of object, when object is rotated (pitch or roll). Only yaw rotation works well. So, I cannot fix it by set_look_vertical/horizontal function. SFENCE: Krock So, camera look direction is not a problem, but camera position looks to be a problem. appguru: Try set_eye_offset independent56: 100 questions. an entire half-weeked. 1 slightly annoyed ywang. 6 hours. 10 youtube videos. and all for one simple little trackyard. SFENCE: MTDiscord I have tryed it. But it looks like it add some offset vector which is rotated by camera look dir, and added to camera position. So with set_eye_offset it looks like camera is rotation over position which is out of object, player is attached to (when this object is rotated by 90 degrees in pitch for example.) independent56: Advtrains needs Hopper Wagons. independent56: I might as well teach myself blender and make them myself Jonathon: or use blockbench+blender independent56: So.. i use blockbench for what? then blender for what? independent56: I am considering doing a "cp -r advtrains highspeed", then using that to make a fork with new track, and faster trains. and the nodenames will differ to make compatifbility with previous advtrains. independent56: Then my server iwll have a niche Sokomine: the advtrains are very nice specing: could make a maglev mod :p specing: or hyperloop independent56: yeah... nah. i was thinking high speed in terms of concrete sleepers, broader gauge, and a set of wide, high-speed trains. independent56: You know what might irritate future me? my blantant misuse of worldedit, straight tracks, and my wiki misuse. independent56: i mean, past me completely misued the wiki adn i ahve to clean up after him independent56: especially the lowercase specing: make a curved track WE, then :P specing: or build it by hand specing: you could have a "wasnt built by WE" niche independent56: XD independent56: HSF (high speed forlk) is far better specing: HLF (high lag fork) independent56: XD independent56: sprinkle in some fork bombs and fork bomb killer defusers... independent56: What group does stone, stone bricks, and other hard objects go into? i need to create plans with required ballast. independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:hsf independent56: there is my idea! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Add .editorconfig (#11412) 13e9bc59e https://git.io/JcgDY (152021-07-03T21:05:15Z) independent56: After looking at the source... wow, that's a lot of files independent56: How do i get my contributions into advtrains (like if a i amde a 5 long slope) independent56: What would i do? there seems to be no pull ability in the offical git. erlehmann: i have made a minetest flyer! https://mister-muffin.de/p/GVQz.png Warr1024: Ha, nodecore represent Warr1024: Can't read that error message tho erlehmann: well i just wanted some trace erlehmann: and only had screenshotted a nodecore one erlehmann: the mineclone2 picture is clamity spawn btw, some time ago erlehmann: the moon thing is mesecraft GreenXenith: Wait, you mean to tell me thats not Minecraft? Warr1024: That one with the nutella and tobasco... erlehmann: Warr1024 is a crima against humanity GreenXenith: nutello* erlehmann: Warr1024 joking, it is the sandwich mod Warr1024: You can tell it's Minetest because there's a ton of food GreenXenith: actually it might be nutella but the image is so compressed I think the tail gets lost Warr1024: Somebody should feed the MT modders GreenXenith: Also im serious, that is definitely not Mineclone2 GreenXenith: Definitely there for irony GreenXenith: wait no theres a screwdriver Warr1024: if it's not mineclone2 then they did a pretty good job overlaying the MT debugging info on it. GreenXenith: you right GreenXenith: at that level of image compression it just looks like minecraft to me Jonathon: that image looks like celeron55's minetest video Jordach: it's a right dead ringer for MC until you zoom in and see MT debug data erlehmann: GreenXenith i think clamity is using some minecraft textures maybe GreenXenith: and the screwdriver duds: Is there a Mineclone channel on here? erlehmann: duds yes but you will not have much fun there: #mineclone2 duds: I see duds: why not?? Jonathon: erlehmann: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD1TVZ47xZY erlehmann: duds well, if you want approx the features of mineclone2 0.71 minus crashes & lag, check out #minelonia – but if you want mineclone2 chat, the devs have supercomputers and lurk on discord i think? erlehmann: duds like the devs are never in the #mineclone2 channel erlehmann: i meant #mineclonia btw Jordach: the devs don't have supercomputers Jordach: otherwise they'd be playing the real thing duds: ahhh ok ok erlehmann: duds if you have a bug report, http://git.minetest.land/Mineclone2/Mineclone2/issues Jordach: like seriously MC is the cost of three hours at a part time job erlehmann: wdym GreenXenith: In California its the cost of 2 hours :] erlehmann: oh erlehmann: i get it duds: yea but is it foss?? didn't think so Jordach: yes hello your ISP wants a word about that Jordach: it's all non-free to use the internet beyond LAN GreenXenith: tru.dat erlehmann: duds once sales start dying andit is worthless notch will release source code he said so! would notch ever lie to us? i think he also mentioned a lua api LOL duds: lmao Jordach: the Lua API is false erlehmann: no, the Lua API is nil Jordach: notch also didn't bet on it become crazy popular Jonathon: google uields https://notch.tumblr.com/post/140146373/lua-or-java-api/amp GreenXenith: really hoping that sentence is entirely irony Jonathon: *yields GreenXenith: idk, uields seems like a perfectly valid spelling erlehmann: Advantages of Java: erlehmann: * Very powerful, can do ANYTHING. erlehmann: WOW erlehmann: i should look into this java Jordach: Reflection and ASM\ Jordach: people underestimate what can be done with ASM and Reflection GreenXenith: wOW iTs TurINg COmpLeTe erlehmann: > The API would then let you send messages, teleport players, set blocks and probably load and save levels. erlehmann: sounds like a cheat client GreenXenith: Sounds like a game engine... Jordach: i mean that just sounds like already existing minetest features duds: sounds like cope Jordach: those whomst shout cope are coping themselves that they don't value themselves enough to work any form of paid work duds: damn... Jordach: either that or they lack the self esteem to even attempt fixing a problem Jordach: been there done that erlehmann: jordach erlehmann: how is your quake imitation going on Jordach: pain Jordach: i've scrapped using minetest's built in networking erlehmann: uh oh? Jordach: and instead doing some async magic Jordach: with LuaSockets Jordach: and directly interface the MT API with that instead Jordach: every modern game since like 2007 has had a world thread and a script thread for managing client side scripting Jordach: it means i can fully utilise the MT API to keep updates at 30hz (send/receive) Jordach: and unlock the speed at which the API steps at Jordach: while pushing near zero network load since visual information and CAO is no longer required to be sent Jordach: that and i'd have to modify the source to change a few things to make it easier for the win/linux users Jordach: like removing the entire multiplayer framework as that's not really needed anymore Jordach: in theory the main menu instead becomes a psuedo launcher in that you have the settings panel and the launch game option, which then offers a bunch of servers DUMdum: Test sfan5: succeeded DUMdum: ok hi independent56: Meta question - How large is a large network? How much track? https://wiki.linux-forks.de/mediawiki/index.php?title=Getting_Started&curid=1928&diff=24188&oldid=23645 independent56: Maybe i have a large network independent56: What i really want is a nice, respectful player. a player much like me, but without being an admin, just a moderator. independent56: Not just some guests who look around, wait minutes for the mapblocks to load, and say "bye". independent56: "or even just **player left the game" Warr1024: Offer a good and engaging game experience, list your server publicly and do a little advertising, and then basically just wait. About 99% of the people who check out my server and any of the small servers I see chat for are fly-by. It takes a while to get quality players. independent56: Hmm.. i am on player ~10. 89 more to go! Warr1024: Network effects are a big thing too. People play on servers that have other players. Get some friends to help and hang out and build stuff with you and you might draw in people during that time. Just be sure to be ready with a good first impression :-) independent56: Is a good impresson doing what you are doing and gently chatting, or is it supervising the player from 10 nodes away? Because superivisng is all my paranoid mind does. Warr1024: A good impression is having a game for the player to play. Don't just crowd them, give them a chance to try stuff out, but have obvious stuff to do, and also show that the server has been developed. independent56: Like... an obvious place to build? Warr1024: I think an organic settlement (i.e. not just a contrived and protected spawn) is helpful to suggest to a player that there's already stuff going on, and to establish a pattern of what kinds of things they can do independent56: Volcano2 might be great, it's surrounded by rainforest and has good track connection: http://2.26.38.198:8080/#!/map/0/10/-1682/-2048 Warr1024: Players aren't necessarily looking for a blank plot to just build whatever, they can do that in SP. You want players who are going to be part of your community, so establish a community for them that they can feel a part of. independent56: It's a bit hard to do when i am the only member. Warr1024: Yeah, it REALLY helps to get a few friends to help out. independent56: Oh... so they are the capital which begins the server. I wish i had people to help me. independent56: That also explains why TA had three admins - a trinity to be gods of the server Warr1024: I started out by making a game, published it, advertised it, got a few people intrigued by the idea. That made it a bit easier to have people I know might be interested when I started up a semi-private test server. We added more people by invitations, and eventually broadened the scope until it went public. Sort of like an IPO. Warr1024: Trying to do this the other way around, i.e. open up a public server first, you have to go through those rougher periods while paying for hosting basically :-) Warr1024: A big selling point for the whole thing was that I was creating a playing experience that was obviously unique. It can be a harder sell if the niche for your server is less obvious, like just a different moderation style or something. independent56: I don't pay for hosting and use my home network. and the latency is huge. Warr1024: Cheap hosting is to your advantage because you aren't bleeding cash and can patiently build your community at your own pace, but not having proper-hosting-class service can be a challenge. Warr1024: If your latency is terrible then there are certain gameplay aspects like PvP and mob combat that suffer particularly and you have to consider whether it's even really worth having those if it's bad enough. independent56: Yeah, i need a motto a bit like "Like LF but without the bamboo and poor moderation". Which communicates my niche - Trains. Warr1024: Moderation is really hard to advertise as a feature also because (1) it's a very personal thing, moderation isn't so much objectively "good" or "bad" as there are simply factions and tribes, and (2) people are going to be skeptical anyway, and you'll probably eventually have people spreading both good and bad rumors about you anyway. independent56: I guess i will just wait around whilst i develop a niche. Thanks for helping. erlehmann: independent56 try playing on other servers if you want community? independent56: I want community on my server. It just seems shabby to go onto other servers and say "look, i like the fact you're here and are a perfect member of the community. please come to my server instead." independent56: "I just want you to make my server better" erlehmann: independent56 why do you want ppl on *your* server in the first place independent56: Thats' the point of multiplayer servers specing: I really wish for a wacky map server erlehmann: independent56 i mean what is it that other servers lack? erlehmann: independent56 ok why should I play on your server instead of say on clamity or inside the box or meseclams or your-land.de erlehmann: i don't know erlehmann: wacky? erlehmann: specing clamity not wacky enough for you? specing: you know, oceans deeper than 50 nodes, mountains higher than 250 nodes specing: erlehmann: a bit too wacky, at least the part with floating sponges erlehmann: the sponge sky is only at spawn anyway independent56: erlehmann, They deny me the right to stay, keeping me only as tenants, who can evict me anytime. erlehmann: and it is easily possible to flood spawn regardless erlehmann: specing "i wan't wacky" "here" "oh no that is WAY TOO CURSED" independent56: erlehmann Also, People will join my server because it needs moderators, and you could be a moderator of a server someone else pays for. specing: independent56: imagine getting banned from clamity erlehmann: specing try meseclams then erlehmann: specing i think the only person that was banned used a coordinate exploit and blew up almost every base on the server except one? erlehmann: i doubt independent56 would be able to do that tbh erlehmann: like, on a technical level specing: independent56: but if you have moderators, that means you are prepared to evict people erlehmann: what specing says specing: erlehmann: oh, so it is possible lol erlehmann: specing no the known coord exploits are fixed of course erlehmann: specing well i am not sure maybe that person actually trolled erlehmann: i only heard rumors that darkmemer was banned erlehmann: maybe it is not true erlehmann: i mean jordan4ibanez was not banned when i told him about the crashmachine and sent him a patch to fix it and he repeatedly pressed the crash button to crash the server and bragged about it on youtube independent56: erlehmann I do not like being part of a community who hates me and evicts me. I am selfish in this argument. erlehmann: and that's pretty toxic specing: I also found a pretty bad bug in 5.3.0 that allowed me to take other people's armors erlehmann: specing safe to say you are not the only person who has found it lol erlehmann: there are worse bugs in 5.3.0 ;) specing: erlehmann: I can imagine yeah erlehmann: independent56 i doubt that clamity would evict you. erlehmann: specing have you tried meseclams? mesecraft is a pretty cool game erlehmann: you can build portals to moon and mars specing: erlehmann: I don't think so independent56: erlehmann, I cannot independently configure, enable mods, and use worldedit on that server. only in 56i-server can i actually be admin erlehmann: specing try it. it is entirely unlike minecraft. like, you have a nethor, but you can find cyberdemons there. erlehmann: i think specing: exploring servers is tedius work, I have to figure out a new memorable password only to learn that the rules are incompatible with me erlehmann: independent56 singleplayer it is then. specing: and I usually only explore a server if there's 5+ players in it independent56: Yeah, but i want people to play with me independent56: My choice was because i wanted to be admin, and build stuff for other players. erlehmann: specing use "pwgen 10" or so and a password generator. i recommend pass, but there are others: https://www.passwordstore.org/ erlehmann: My choice was because i wanted to be admin, and build stuff for other players. erlehmann: independent56 why would anyone ELSE want YOU to be admin? independent56: exactly independent56: i had to make my own server erlehmann: independent56 singleplayer is it then erlehmann: singleplayer on your server independent56: i want to play with other players erlehmann: independent56 there is only one way forward, make everyone on your server admin independent56: XD erlehmann: only that way you achieve true anarchy erlehmann: i mean it specing: haha if I had a server I probably wouldnt want independent56 as an admin :P erlehmann: yeah me true erlehmann: too erlehmann: sry independent56: Yeah, i would grant myself worldedit and crash the server building a huge hourse independent56: or "/shutdown" specing: I'm pretty sure I'd either have no worldedit erlehmann: independent56 if there was another copy of you named independent57 why would that person join your server? specing: or I'd fix it so it's usable by players without crashing the server erlehmann: if that person could not be admin specing: and then everyone would have it erlehmann: independent56 if you want to build arbitrary stuff join a creative server independent56: erlehmann Because we have to share everything, so we might as well share the server Warr1024: independent, if you can't get along with the operators of any other servers what makes you think that you'll get along with players on your server? Warr1024: You being in a position of power over them instead of the other way around isn't necessarily going to fix fundamental disagreements Warr1024: Whether they kick you off their server or you kick them off yours, it doesn't change the fact that you won't be playing together anymore. independent56: Hmm... Warr1024: Getting along with other people is hard and annoying and very often it sucks, but I guess we have to do it to have the things we want, because the things we want always include other people in some capacity :-| IhrFussel: You can encourage people to visit your server if it offers unique stuff...custom features no other server can just download from CDB or the forum erlehmann: what Warr1024 says erlehmann: it takes a lot to not get along with any admin erlehmann: i mean erlehmann: recently on clamity clamork came and spawned a bunch of vindicators and vexes erlehmann: those killed another player, a good friend of mine erlehmann: she had a sword named “divine intervention” erlehmann: i picked it up and erlehmann: clamork was killed by me using divine intervention erlehmann: i did not get banned for that erlehmann: i mean he had it coming :D IhrFussel: That's only true if the admin/staff is able to behave neutrally on their server, but on my servers staff expresses bias/agendas and is not always fair to all players specing: Why would you get banned for killing on an anarchy server? erlehmann: independent56 would you ban me for killing an admin or mod just because i feel like it? independent56: Wow.... But some admins are just short-tempered, like gpcf. IhrFussel: many servers* independent56: erlehmann, yes... the kill command needs a priv i need to trust you with erlehmann: specing i think most servers might ban users if they start killing admins specing: erlehmann: most servers have a be nice / no PvP without conset specing: consent* erlehmann: specing if you want to make sure you get admins or mods during flybys they make of users, just enable killaura specing: this applies to players and admins alike erlehmann: that way they can not sneak up on you erlehmann: without getting killed specing: I think that disagree with my view of an admin should be erlehmann: independent56 i do not mean using kill command specing: And admin should be someone to enforce the rules and not a higher class of players specing: *An admin should be someone to enforce the rules and not a higher class of players erlehmann: specing well on clamity they sometimes just look what ppl build erlehmann: they don't really interfere independent56: PVP is disabled, so it is a hack. erlehmann erlehmann: in this case clamork was there for debugging a bunch of nodes erlehmann: independent56 there are still ways to kill players with pvp disabled believe me specing: That's fine, but they shouldn't use admin powers for that erlehmann: ind you won't ever see it coming IhrFussel: If staff actually bans you just for trying to kill staff members then that server should be avoided at all costs...this is exactly what I just said...staff in my eyes is NOT any better than regular players, they just have more responsibilities erlehmann: specing well usually clamork just spams chickens and leaves lol specing: i.e. no bypassing locked doors, no flying over obtacles (unless rules permit players flying) independent56: erlehmann, Oh yeah, deathtraps and lava. It all depends on the rules. if they say "no death", it's a ban. erlehmann: IhrFussel well i was on one server and another player told me flying is not allowed. and i was like "i read the somewhat long rules and there is nothing in the rules about it not being allowed and besides, you are flying too" and then that player was like "yeah but i have PRIVILEGES", so i avoided that server, bc obv it was another higher class of player :/ erlehmann: independent56 if you think that ppl should be banned for building death traps, why should ANYONE play on your server? independent56: erlehmann, LF does that, and they have a loyal playerbase. one i was part of. erlehmann: i once built a death trap near clamity spawn, a cute house with a lot of tnt under it. open the trapped chest, all doors close and the house explodes. i put a sign in front of it "do not steal my diamonds". erlehmann: so of course someone managed to set it off erlehmann: and then rebuilt it, tnt and all lol erlehmann: and later someone else set it off erlehmann: it was just too funny :D erlehmann: ok well erlehmann: it wasn't really a lot of tnt Warr1024: I wasn't trying to say that pissing off an admin is necessarily a high bar to cross, but in the event that the admins really ARE that arbitrary, they aren't likely to have built a community you'd miss being a part of anyway. erlehmann: just enough to blow up the house erlehmann: yeah what Warr1024 says erlehmann: independent56 for what reasons do you not get along with other admins? erlehmann: btw clamork is generally nice, but spamming vexes and vindicators is an asshole move IhrFussel: erlehmann, If that player was no staff member then I wouldn't care much what they have to tell me...if the rules don't mention a certain thing and also no staff member talks to me about it then I see no rule violated specing: LF doesen't seem to have any heavy rules independent56: I just dont... Moderators generally end up against me... like oneplayer (username) who spoiled TA for me. specing: also, LF is the only non-anarchy server with totally unrestricted CSM restrictions specing: that I found erlehmann: IhrFussel it was a staff member but "it does not violate any of your rules" was apparently not enough IhrFussel: I'm completely against "implied rules" btw...I mean rules that are not written anywhere but still apply erlehmann: IhrFussel i was just threatened with ban for doing the same that player did, flying Warr1024: If you find that you have problems with a lot of people then you should probably consider the common factor between those failed relationships, at least in part because that factor will be with you in your other ventures like trying to start your own server. erlehmann: also, LF is the only non-anarchy server with totally unrestricted CSM restrictions erlehmann: specing, what do you mean CSM restrictions? they have anticheat turned off? specing: erlehmann: yeah, the CSM flags are all turned off specing: it's not anticheat erlehmann: If you find that you have problems with a lot of people then you should probably consider the common factor between those failed relationships, erlehmann: Warr1024 speaks wise words erlehmann: specing just use waspsaliva and ignore what the server says IhrFussel: The most vague rule I ever saw on a server was "use common sense" this rule can mean anything really, it doesn't help me too much as player who wants to know what exactly is allowed and what's not Warr1024: As far as unwritten rules go, every server has some. Stuff like having "don't be an ass in chat" without specifying exactly what "ass" means here, assuming everyone should already know. In those cases, the proper way to handle the ambiguity is probably to warn first, so that player have a chance to get it right at least once before getting slapped with a ban. specing: erlehmann: CSMRestrictionFlags erlehmann: in my opinion, every case in which cheating makes the game less fun for other players, you are mostly cheating yourself out of fun erlehmann: like specing: erlehmann: I have my own client that partially ignores it erlehmann: why would anyone cheat on "inside the box" or CTF erlehmann: the fun of it is to solve the challenge yourself specing: erlehmann: I said that I will rebase on ws/dfc one day, but that day is not today Krock: because they're low-brainers who need assistance to win erlehmann: specing post a link here please Krock: that's why erlehmann: Krock yeah but consider that on inside the box there are not even other players for the puzzle erlehmann: Krock so you literally can only cheat yourself specing: erlehmann: not here Krock: it's totally pointless yeah erlehmann: specing why Warr1024: My policy on how I handle cheat clients on my server is that I join in with other players who are online at the time in collectively laughing at them until they die of embarrassment. specing: erlehmann: discord erlehmann: specing what is the problem with discord? erlehmann: specing you can not post links on irc because of discord? specing: I don't like it, + https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord + https://dev.to/daksh777/why-i-quit-using-discord-34b + https://sneak.berlin/20200220/discord-is-not-an-acceptable-choice-for-free-software-projects/ erlehmann: oh right erlehmann: discord sucks Warr1024: Don't confuse using discord with trusting it. Warr1024: I mean, we use GitHub but we don't really trust it either. erlehmann: you trust a person or a thing if they can undermine your security model erlehmann: evidently specing: I'm boycotting GitHub as well erlehmann: github once erroneously hellbanned me erlehmann: i stopped using it specing: it's why I started CSMing, couldn't fix anything serverside as it was all on GitHub Warr1024: Heh, usually I hear security models defined in terms of trust rather than the other way around, but that works. erlehmann: i mean wtf specing: now I have 6000 LoC in CSMs erlehmann: specing ever consider contributing to waspsaliva? erlehmann: cora nice specing: erlehmann: I did, and I will. Just need to rebase specing: yes, cora nice specing: Well, she might not like the license :P erlehmann: what is it specing: I have affero GPL tentacles ;P erlehmann: well talk to her about it specing: yeah, it'll come eventually. Need to rebase first erlehmann: i do not use waspsaliva much, i mostly usey fly and noclip for building and debugging stuff on other ppls servers and you can get that via priv override easily specing: waspsaliva is also interesting as its not on GitHub erlehmann: but it has an impressive amount of features erlehmann: specing did you see the heart-shaped nether portals on clamity? they are almost all placed by cora using a CSM :) erlehmann: and the best thing erlehmann: they take about the same amount of obsidian as the original nether prtal specing: nah, hadnt specing: I'm also experimenting with CSM worldediting specing: but got sidetracked with writing a CSM replacement for pipeworks erlehmann: what erlehmann: specing play more on clamity, it needs more players like you erlehmann: ppl who make their own cheat clients also often help fix cheats specing: I wouldn't call my client a cheat client specing: It's more an "enhanced player experience" client specing: even though there's substantial overlap erlehmann: specing "cheat client" is shorthand for "non-vanilla" erlehmann: i.e. every dev version is technically a cheat client specing: if you ask the server owners, perhaps Warr1024: I mean, the official client is a "cheat client" too :-) Warr1024: It took like 2 years to get a PR merged just to make it possible to make certain cheats off by default :-/ erlehmann: Warr1024 which ones? erlehmann: i mean as long as you can dupe using vanilla client it probably is lol erlehmann: and that's possible right now Warr1024: Like the developer tools. erlehmann: (the joke is that duping happens on the server) Warr1024: Minecraft has that problem too in vanilla, but at least mod for MC have generally had the ability to distinguish between players and developers. Warr1024: I'm actually not all that familiar with duping in MT. Warr1024: Is it caused by bugs in the game code, or are there engine problems that games would have to guard against? Warr1024: I've had duping bugs in my own game but they've always been my own fault, not the engine's, so far. erlehmann: Warr1024 every dupe bug is either an engine problem with not keeping track of items correctly or bugs in lua mods, mostly in nodes that handle inventories erlehmann: for example, i think there was a dupe in moreblocks relating to wool erlehmann: like don't count on me understanding it, i just inferred it from the commits erlehmann: but i think microblocks were in the wool group erlehmann: so you could make colored wool with them erlehmann: and then cut it up again maybe to get more microblocks? erlehmann: something like that erlehmann: i discovered a similar bug for wood erlehmann: if wood microblocks are still in the wood group, you can make 8 times the amount of charcoal ^^ erlehmann: just by cutting them up erlehmann: oven does not care erlehmann: Warr1024 there is at least one engine bug in minetest that allows duping stuff but i am not telling bc i have not figured out how to fix it. erlehmann: and also if you do it, admin will notice erlehmann: so it is not particularly useful Jonathon: Fuel abuse is the oldest trick in minetest games erlehmann: to cheat, i mean erlehmann: Jonathon please tell me about more historical bugs Jonathon: Heck, digtron even promotes it erlehmann: i love hearing that stuff erlehmann: what does digtron do? Jonathon: It literrally tells you to use coal blocks as you will get more fuel than using them individually Warr1024: I'm more interested in preventing or guarding against bugs than I am in exploiting them. I pretty much don't play on other servers, like 100% of my MT time is working on my game. erlehmann: but that is a mechanic actually erlehmann: Jonathon mineclone2/mineclonia also has that. coal block crafted from 9 coal is as good as 10 coal. erlehmann: Warr1024 i like that nodecore is so weird, but i never got into the whole explore the mechanics thing. Jonathon: Mineclone2 is just mtg under the hood that has been tweaked over time Jonathon: So its not suprising specing: erlehmann | if wood microblocks are still in the wood group, you can make 8 times the amount of charcoal ^^ specing: nice, but fairly useless as far as cheating goes specing: wood is pretty cheap Jonathon: Mineclone2: mtg minecraft style and runs worse erlehmann: Jonathon have you tried mesecraft? erlehmann: it pretty neat erlehmann: but a bit buggy erlehmann: also fuck those giant hornets erlehmann: but like erlehmann: mesecraft has really neat details Jonathon: No, but ive seen it, just a mtg plus mods erlehmann: well it is the interaction that makes it erlehmann: it is a really good selection of mods Jonathon: Does it have good glue? erlehmann: to make sticky pistons you mean? erlehmann: it just has technic erlehmann: on the meseclams server someone discovered that technic means nuclear meltdowns are possible Jonathon: No, is the mod soup glued together well? erlehmann: there is a spire of chernobylite at spawn now Warr1024: Pretty much the only dupe bugs I've run into were either a simple bug in the code, or a crash bug where I tried to move something, and it was added to the destination but crashed before it could be removed from the source. erlehmann: bc someone (*cough* clamork i think) built some tower and did a core meltdown on top of it Warr1024: Crashes mid-move always end up causing inconsistencies either way, and item deletion is just as bad as duplication for me. erlehmann: Warr1024 maybe learn how to make atomic transactions Benrob0329: I would kind of like to see a game which pulls elements from classic Minetest (like Mese, Dungeon Masters, and Orrkies [however you spell it])..maybe I'll try to work that into a future game idea Benrob0329: and rats, can't forget the rats Warr1024: Heh, if MT was ACID internally then that would simplify things so much. Warr1024: Hell, it's even built on top of ACID databases like sqlite and pgsql, but then everything is cached in memory and written back async... Warr1024: The more I work on a game without mobs the more I like it. Warr1024: Turns out the best monsters are nodes. Benrob0329: maybe the true monsters were the friends we made along the way Warr1024: That works too. Most disasters the players in NodeCore encounter are self-created. Warr1024: Sadly my suggestion for a "Player vs Self" tag in CDB was rejected. Warr1024: It's a game with strong Player vs. Player elements, just no Player vs. Other Player ones. independent56: Is there like some etiquete on how many repies to a forum post i can make with nobody else replying? independent56: I'm sure 10 replies is regarded as crappy behaviour Warr1024: I think normally you just balance your willingness to talk into an empty room against your own sense of embarrassment? Warr1024: That's my system anyway. A good heuristic is that I like to stop before I scroll the last non-me messages off the top of a screen so I feel like I'm still having a conversation. independent56: haha independent56: Hello. I am getting £150 for my birthday, because i will be 15. And my grandmother is slightly crazy. I am jus wondering whether to spend it on homelab equipment, Or a VPS for a year. independent56: I like control, but i also like network speed and power Krock: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/0f/26/9c0f2685ea6eebb0babc98450600d68a.jpg independent56: This is a genuine question, asking for the opinion of people with more experience then me. sfan5: you'll value permanent things more than temporary ones sfan5: is my take independent56: aye, thanks independent56: https://imgur.com/a/lOdlojr This is the result of my family throwing obsolete/unwanted tech at me. Krock: for hobbyist tasks, use hobbyist hardware Krock: for professional work, use professional hardware or hobbyist when time's short Krock: put the laptops to some use I guess, but make sure they're properly secured to not open up access from outside to your network independent56: Ah yes... if only they didn't have fatal flaws. one has a locked bios i have been unable to hack into, another has a broken bios, on ehas a broken screen, the red one can't use wifi, the thicc one can't do shit, one can't even use ehternet specing: sell them specing: and buy proper stuff independent56: cool idea! independent56: But how should i sell them? "regular"? "in need of maintanace"? "shit, try finding spare parts"? independent56: and how much would one cost at maximum? £50? specing: idk about what you have because imgur's cert expired 2 months ago specing: so I just assume you got cool new gadgets specing: where 'cool' means cool for the masses and utterly useless otherwise independent56: https://i.imgur.com/fJcKXbL.jpeg independent56: try this sfan5: imgur's cert did not expire 2 months ago, I'd be concerned about what your ISP is doing to your connection Warr1024: "you'll value permanent things more than temporary ones" ... sounds like a vote for "neither" :-) Warr1024: Also, is that pringles can a wifi antenna reflector or just a literal pringles can? independent56: i mean, i can probably get an odd £150 from the stack, maybe £200 if i'm lucky. That can be spent on dedicated server hardware... my god i'm going to have to use a spreadsheet (not that i'm scared or anything, just that i like spreadsheets and get to use them)! independent56: Just a pringles can. i love pringles. it's just that mum refrains from buying them, and they are getting expensive. beck in december they were £1.5. now they're £3.5 specing: sfan5: yeah, something fishy probably specing: sfan5: the cert expired 1year 2mo ago Warr1024: Dayum. I get the store-bought knock-off pringles, they're like $1 a can specing: and was a selfsigned one independent56: i dont like the knockoffs, something about "brand quality" Warr1024: specing: I was wondering why you seemed so paranoid earlier, talking about how you didn't trust discord or github ... now you don't seem paranoid enough. specing: How so? Ofc I didnt accept the cert Warr1024: no I mean just in general specing: And I'm not paranoid specing: And I didn't say that I don't trust them Warr1024: haha, I mean, that's what I'm saying :-D specing: I said that I don't like it, and that I don't use it * specing: scrolls up to verify Warr1024: Yeah, I don't remember the exact wording either. Warr1024: Anyway, TLS interception is super shady for an ISP or something to be doing to you specing: exactly that is what I said specing: don't use -> boycott specing: you probably got confused as I linked to other people's blogs Warr1024: coulbe specing: I've never used Discord, so I don't have *all* the ammo to argue against using it specing: must be my unique ability to recognise bad services from the start Warr1024: The only reason I use it is because of other people who use it. I don't think there's any real compelling reason to prefer the technology itself, and the whole proprietary thing is pretty gross. Warr1024: I think maybe a couple years ago it had a usability edge over Matrix or IRC on mobile but now I think the other platforms have had a chance to catch up so there are options that make them mobile-friendly. specing: Ok, so why are you still using Discord? specing: At least for this channel independent56: https://imgur.com/a/A7WmzO9 independent56: rate my spreadsheet B-) Warr1024: Inertia independent56: https://imgur.com/a/3tTXoMF independent56: is £400 too high? independent56: I'm just wondering... what use do the people have for old, broken computers? erlehmann: independent56 wait if you are 14 year old it all makes sense, the not getting along and wanting power and all that erlehmann: independent56 i suggest to play on clamity a bit to get along with people, seriously erlehmann: independent56 i doubt you will regret it independent56: Ok... erlehmann: independent56 if it is too unstructured for you, try your-land.de erlehmann: they have elections for mayor and land plots erlehmann: and A LOT of cities erlehmann: compared to other servers erlehmann: and mean enemies named mimics erlehmann: that can pretend to be any block erlehmann: so at one point i saw a grass texture moving lol erlehmann: and yep, it was a mimic erlehmann: shortly afterwards it changed into a dirt-with-grass block erlehmann: and the dirt attacked me erlehmann: :D independent56: hmm independent56: i'll give it a try, (with stress on the full stop/period) independent56: All this homelab stuff is complex server hardware stuff. researching is hard. should i give in an make a small rasberry array, with like 10 PIs? independent56: (i mean, is it a good idea?) Jonathon: pis are good for working with physical hardware. for software/computer projects, not so much Jonathon: unless you want to build a cheap cluster or something Hawk777: Seems like a good way to find yourself painted into a corner when you want to run one program that needs a lot of resources (RAM, CPU power, etc.) and you have enough resources in aggregate, but not on any one machine. independent56: Yeah, a small array, to harness the power of multiple pis. Homelabbing with proper hardware seems to be a bit complex, with so many seperate components. Hawk777: Well, but what if you want to run a program that needs just a bit more CPU than a Pi has? If you buy 10 Pis, you’re out of luck. If you took that money and bought one bigger computer, you could still run it. Jonathon: to clarify, "unless you want to build a cheap cluster or something" im referring to having a test environment to learn cluster computing, not to actually use it for anything serious Jonathon: mainly because there cheaper than buying old business machines, more power efficient, and more space efficient independent56: oh independent56: What if i cluster old desktops like some crappy homelab? independent56: stack them on top of each other like jenga XD specing: raspberry pis aren't good for working with physical hardware specing: they lack the IO specing: they should be viewed as consumer computers without a screen attached. Think as a phone/tablet motherboard independent56: oh independent56: aha yeag independent56: why is this so cheap? Is it effectively a rasberry pi? https://www.ebay.com/itm/114874948838?hash=item1abf149ce6:g:MpsAAOSw4S1g3j~~ independent56: oh wait shipping is $50 specing: look into Olimex boards for proper embedded specing: raspberri pis dont even have full schematics published last I checked Jonathon: :thonking: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/schematics/README.md specing: Jonathon you should have checked them before ":thonking:" specing: They are only schematics for connectors specing: no schematics for processor or memory specing: and no boardviews Warr1024: pis aren't really like an eval board for a microcontroller that you'd later get in cheaper solderable form for production use; they're basically a unit as they are Warr1024: I like them for one-off stuff, and stuff that's closer to computer than microcontroller stuff, of course specing: they are consumer hardware Warr1024: They've got a few GPIOs for micrcontrollery sorts of things but from what I can tell they're not great, and I think they want you to buy accessories to do stuff like that specing: consumer hardware doesen't have docs specing: (unless they got leaked, like in the case of my thinkpad) Warr1024: They've got enough specs that you get the pin-outs of the stuff they provide pins for, and physical dimensions so you can CAD up custom cases and such, but yeah, that's about all. specing: Now compare that to Olimex boards, where you get the full schematics AND the actuall CAD files used to make these specing: and the whole development history in a git repo specing: and if you open olimex.com, you'll see the whole website is oriented towards engineers specing: lots of text, few images specing: unlike the rpi foundation one, which is 100% a consumer website specing: no data, just videos and pictures specing: Now, I hope my rant here helped prevent at least one person from getting scammed by the rpi foundation specing: unless you wanted a consumer arm computer, in which case... welp sfan5: independent56: (modern) Pentium CPUs are pretty weak compared to mid-range x86 stuff people usually have but it should beat an ARM board any day independent56: hmm yeah. My main struggle now with finding homelab hardware is converting from freedom currency to british currency ($ --> £) specing_: not a Cavium ThunderX ARM board, no sfan5: check ebay.co.uk instead? independent56: Oh god! yeah! XD independent56: I forgot big companies localise with different TLDs. not like gb.ebay.com, or us.ebay.com independent56: I have just realised how fun window shopping is with wish. but i would never buy from them. goodnight independent56: yeah... i saw a sata cable for sale, got onto ebay, found one, and put it onto the spreadsheet. independent56: https://imgur.com/a/BfAaPfJ Which looks a lot more like this now Kelp: Hello. Can someone please help me? Minetest only gives me 49-50 fps but I have a 75 hz monitor. Kelp: I'm using GNU/Linux. independent56: This may be due to the way your processor is underpowered, or the FPS may be capped. It's fine. Kelp: The max fps value is set to 75 in settings. I have tried vsync both on and off and neither of them give me over 50 fps. Kelp: I have a ryzen 7 1700x and a gtx 1660 Kelp: It's not a specs issue Warr1024: If you shrink the window size or look up into the sky, does it get better? Kelp: No. Kelp: It only gives me 49-50 fps Kelp: No more, no less Warr1024: Does turning down any visual settings / shaders help any? Kelp: No. I have turned them off I think Kelp: Turning them off doesn't help Warr1024: Hmm, I don't know off hand, but it is an interesting problem. Maybe some stray setting that's not obvious or easy to find, or maybe a driver or other system config issue... rubenwardy: sounds similar to an issue where NVIDIA GPUs were forcing V-SYNC on, ignoring Minetest's requests for it to be off rubenwardy: I know ryzen is AMD, but could be similar Kelp: I have NVIDIA rubenwardy: oh rubenwardy: oh wait, cpu rubenwardy: There's an env variable to fix it Kelp: CPU is ryzen 7 1700x Kelp: How do i do that? Warr1024: Well, vsync should cap it at 75 or some multiple or something Kelp: Yeah. But it caps it at 50 Warr1024: unless your monitor refresh rate is misdetected rubenwardy: `vblank_mode=0 minetest` Warr1024: any other games work okay? Kelp: Yeah they all work okay rubenwardy: vblank_mode=0 is the environment variable and value Kelp: Minecraft and supertuxkart had no issues Warr1024: ruben: is that vblank mode thing specific to MT, or to irrlicht, or is that a more general convention? Kelp: How do I change environment variable? rubenwardy: open a terminal, and run vblank_mode=0 minetest Kelp: Okay rubenwardy: that will at least check to see if that is the cause rubenwardy: Warr1024: it's not specific to MT j1233: i know of somebody that had a similar problem and they fixed it by starting minetest with `vblank_mode=0 bin/minetest`, like ruben is suggesting rubenwardy: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17196117/disable-vertical-sync-for-glxgears#17196118 rubenwardy: it's a general thing Kelp: Lmao still 50 fps smh Kelp: Wait no. Supertuxkart also is only 50 fps Kelp: I've been playing 50 fps all this time without knowing rubenwardy: Supertuxkart uses the same 3d rendering library that we do rubenwardy: (Irrlicht) Kelp: OwO Kelp: I'm never buying nvidia again Warr1024: hmm, now I wonder if I should add the vblank_mode thing to my ~/.bashrc and/or ~/.xsession... Kelp: I can't stand this 50 fps lol Warr1024: Maybe if you get a 120Hz monitor then you can get 75fps. Warr1024: Or you just need to lower the fps of your eyeballs. Warr1024: 50fps is not an exact "harmonic" of 75Hz either so you're probably noticing some jitter. Kelp: When loading a minetest world i also get this error... Warr1024: If you've been playing STK at 50fps the whole time without noticing though then it sounds like maybe you CAN stand this? Kelp: WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: PNG warning: iCCP: CRC error Kelp: But now that i've noticed it's only 50 fps now i can't stand it Warr1024: oops, shouldn't have noticed then 😅 Kelp: Lol sfan5: sounds like some misconfiguration tbh, never seen this on any of my nvidia linux systems Warr1024: Re: the CRC error: some game/mod you're using has a PNG image that's corrupted or doesn't match a spec or something. If you don't see anything wrong visually then you can probably ignore it, otherwise you can try to figure out which mod and then complain to the author. Kelp: I am using a texture pack i'll try to disable it then Kelp: Lol yeah it's the texture pack Jonathon: Typically you can ignore them tho Jonathon: However fixing it would be nice independent56: is there a "sudo apt update" but for minetest mods? i dont want to rely on the gui to update my mods. sfan5: a CLI for the contentdb client is on the TODO list independent56: yay! what is the latest due date? Krock: never independent56: ok :-< independent56: anyways, i have this worldedit region, and i want to do something like "//copy y -1 z 3", but it gives me an error. is there a way to copy in two directions independent56: https://imgur.com/a/w2YV0yG independent56: the region for reference independent56: "//multi //copy y -1 //shift y -1 //move z 3" will work rubenwardy: there are unofficial CLIs available sfan5: independent56: //stack2 1 0 -1 3 independent56: wow, thanks! i forgot that command existed, keeping it only in the "skyscraper building" category. independent56: rubenwardy, The name of one you reccomend? rubenwardy: https://github.com/ronoaldo/minetools maybe rubenwardy: not tried it independent56: the command wouldn't move the region so i just did "//multi //stack2 1 0 -1 3 //shift down 1 //shift z 3" instead. works exactly how i would like! independent56: ran out of disk space again independent56: i think mineteest should have a way of going "oh wait, only 50 mb left, better say "check disk space", then fail. specing: then your chat/log would be filled with "check disk space" dzho: that's presumably what the "then fail" part would take care of Warr1024: Every app can't be responsible for warning about low disk space. dzho: admittedly, that is sort of an OS-level responsibility independent56: I know... but minetest should really alert chat "ERROR [server main] Disk Space is at 50 MB! to preserve your OS, shutting down!" independent56: Being a memory hog, i think that it's it's responsibility. independent56: Well... 46 gb is now free specing: independent56: you could make a mod that provides that warning independent56: i could, but i can't. i have no experience in minetest modding specing: time to get some, then independent56: haha yeah Hawk777: If you’re going to install and/or make a mod anyway, why not just install something that has nothing to do with Minetest and just pops up (if you’re running this on your desktop/laptop) or e-mails (if you’re running it on a server) a notification when disk space is low? There must be hundreds of those out there for every imaginable OS. Noclip[m]: Minetest Wiki and Forum websites are very very in the last days. Are they getting ddos attacked again? Jonathon: I havent noticed the forum being anymore terrible than usual independent56: They load really slowly Jonathon: Yes, its generally terrible, but still works Noclip[m]: Mhh, maybe you're right and it's just slow. Jonathon: This morning was fine for me, i could try now Jonathon: Probably will 5xx to spite me Jonathon: ...and yeah, 504 atm Pexin: Kelp: using nouveau or official nvidia driver? Pexin: I've noticed different fps cap between those independent56: A player joined my server and via the logs, i found their IP and found that they were algerian. So they struggled with internet distance. independent56: Only 44 M population, as compared to the UK's 68 independent56: https://imgur.com/a/KPkzXif independent56: Why dosent any server i see do this - add proper documentation? exe_virus: Sorry about the lack of players, there will be more don't you worry, minetest's community is growing nicely Zhaolin Lau: can someone asks celeron55 for reactivating the minetest fb page? Swift110-mobile: hello all Swift110-mobile: good to hear that minetest is getting more users Swift110-mobile: is anyone running a minetest server on a raspberry pi? Jordach: >caring about faceberg Benrob0329: There have been a few over the years Benrob0329: Also yeah, let Facebook die Zhaolin Lau: lul exe_virus: Yeah don't support Facebook, sorry. It's essentially a net negative on societal productivity, happiness, and efficiency. Might as well be cigarettes or something exe_virus: On that subject, don't support google making search worse over time. By far that is one of the saddest parts of Google's dominance is seeing how much of your search results are paid for, or are videos, or pictures, or top level sites like reddit or Facebook. celeron55: fb page? never even seen one celeron55: and happy for it AntumDeluge: Is there a way to stop my server from doing this? Server: UncleDaddy moved too fast: V=132.2, H=0; resetting position AntumDeluge: The code is in src/server/player_sao.cpp, but I don't see any setting to disable it. AntumDeluge: If nothing else, I will just comment-out the code & use a custom build for my server. sfan5: there is a setting to disable anticheat IhrFussel: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/1805775f3d54043c3b1e75e47b9b85e3b12bab00/minetest.conf.example#L1408 but this also disables other anti cheat mechanics AntumDeluge: I tried disable_anticheat once, but it didn't seem to make a difference. But I will try it again. IhrFussel: Then you did something wrong... 'moved too fast' doesn't ever happen when anti cheat is off IhrFussel: Did you actually set it to 'true'? AntumDeluge: I was having the issue when mounted/attached to entities, but disabling anticheat didn't affect it. Maybe mounted/attached instances are unrelated. IhrFussel: I thought players attached to entities are able to ignore the anti cheat entirely since that is server side controlled AntumDeluge: Oh, ya. There is no message when attached to entities, so is unrelated. IhrFussel: Yeah the 'moved too fast' for example triggers when the player loses connection for a bit without timing out completely and then reconnects and walked away a certain distance from the last known position AntumDeluge: Okay, disabling anticheat seems to be working for normal movement. Thanks @IhrFussel. Just wish I could figure out what the problem with attached entities is. IhrFussel: For that you need to describe the problem more detailed IhrFussel: Under which circumstances do these messages appear? Warr1024: Is there a significant performance disparity between minetest serialize/deserialize and write_json/parse_json? sfan5: both are parsed by C/C++ code while one is specifically meant and probably optimized for data serialization sfan5: in conclusion: who knows rubenwardy: Serialize is in Lua and is faster rubenwardy: JSON is in c++ and more standard Jonathon: Just note https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7574 if your going to be handling a lot Benrob0329: notes to get back to improving his rewrite sometime independent56: i have just realised the three disadvantages of fast walk speed - Mapblock load, Accuracy, and feeling like a snail on other servers/ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix spurious shadow enablement in mainmenu 1372927b7 https://git.io/JcG5G (152021-06-30T15:10:28Z) ghoti: I've noticed that the multicraft client on macOS seems to pause activity when it is not in the foreground, and when reactivated tries to "catch up" but usually times out from its server connection. Any idea if this is configurable behaviour, either in MC or in MT in general? ghoti: MC2 on macOS, incidentally.. Jordach: It’s because of how M1 or iOS app enabled Macs handle inactivity Jordach: Giving any other app focus will cause Multi a paused state Jordach: I do however provide actual Intel and M1 enabled Minetest builds for Macs Jordach: ghoti; https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jt3el1tn6s1yc82/AADHR74Y1tEQDb9NKQh5Csu-a Jordach: I support Intel machines as old as Mavericks ghoti: @Jordach, those appear to be MT 5.5 builds. I am only experiencing this with MC 2.0.0, it doesn't happen for me in MT 5.3 which I normally run. ghoti: I'm happy to test things, though. What's the difference between the two versions? The embedded Lua interpreter? Jordach: Because the Mac App Store version is an iOS build which effectively uses a SIGSTOP Jordach: When window or full screen focus is lost Jordach: This behaviour is the same on iOS devices ghoti: Ah, interesting. Thank you, that makes sense. ghoti: Is it an *actual* SIGSTOP? Could I reactivate it with a SIGCONT? Jordach: iOS apps are treated as kernel user so they’re untouchable unless you have true root level access Jordach: In other words they’re processes and a fake one at the same time Jordach: I should say the process you can access is the window wrapper that holds the app process Jordach: But access to the actual app process is restricted MinetestBot: 02[git] 04AFCMS -> 03minetest/minetest: Run on_grant and on_revoke callbacks after privs change (#11387) 138cc04e0 https://git.io/JcZ8g (152021-06-30T18:40:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Inventory: Make addList() consistent (#11382) 13f2fd443 https://git.io/JcZ82 (152021-06-30T18:39:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Auth API: Error when accessed prior to ServerEnv init (#11398) 13062fd21 https://git.io/JcZ87 (152021-06-30T18:42:26Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unsupported video drivers (#11395) 13827a785 https://git.io/JcZ85 (152021-06-30T18:42:15Z) ghoti: @Jordach, from a user perspective, will I see a difference betten the "Lua" and "aJIT" version? Is there one which needs more testing than the other? Jordach: JIT runs on machines that use Mavericks Jordach: while the BigSur one requires Big Sur as it's a fat binary containing machine code for M1 and iNTEL ghoti: Ah, I am running Catalina at the moment.. ghoti: And I installed minetest from homebrew. ghoti: So, no idea what binary I'm currently running. :) Jordach: Catalina should work, the build runs fine on my 2013 Air Jordach: for JIT at least sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=396332#p396332 sfan5: !title MinetestBot: sfan5: How I make a MPEG transport stream? - Minetest Forums sfan5: heh Krock: to make a tree Krock: WAT GreenXenith: Schematic files match MPEG2 encoding or something jordan4ibanez: This man turned a youtube video into a map you can download robyndrake: uhm sorry to bother with a stupid question, but is there a website with a referance to the modding API? entuland: depends on what you mean with "reference" entuland: the main reference is the lua_api.txt file you can find in the installation and on the github repo entuland: then there is the modding book robyndrake: ok, thank you entuland: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt and https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html entuland: yw Swift110-mobile: Nice jordach I have it on my 2010 MacBook running Catalina Jordach: i haven't tested it with mavericks Jordach: since it's compiled against big sur target libraries Jordach: (but since i forced them to cxx11) Jordach: things may work Jordach: i really need a test VM Warr1024: I can't remember if I asked this before or not, but how does one hold sneak or aux while punching or digging on Android? I tried the obvious thing and it didn't work for me. erlehmann: Warr1024 what is "the obvious thing"? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04NeroBurner -> 03minetest/minetest: Use user provided lib/irrlichtmt if available (#11276) 13fa4dee0 https://git.io/Jcmsc (152021-06-29T07:57:19Z) wwar: @Warr1024 you have to start digging before using sneak/aux, otherwise it wont work wwar: Any item with "sneak+leftclick to use" will not work that you cant start digging and sneaking at the sametime Warr1024: So it only works with dig, not punch then? wwar: It works with punch too if you start punching first Warr1024: You can't start a punch, punches are instantaneous Warr1024: It sounds like a bug to me wwar: you cant punch/dig after starting to sprint or sneak IhrFussel: Huh? On my server you keep holding down punch until the monster with 5,000 HP dies eventually wwar: yes i do? wwar: I keep punching IhrFussel: If your game only allows 1 punch then you need to find some kind of workaround for that wwar: Dont hold my hand wwar: thats one of the things which make android controllers harder IhrFussel: AFAIK the punching mechanic depends on the tool/item registration IhrFussel: For entities infinite punches definitely work Warr1024: Huh, this is pretty bullshit. MT's controls have a very limited vocabulary and this just makes it that much worse. wwar: im saying if you need to punch or dig while sprinting or snekaing you need to start punching or digging first wwar: Indeed, aswell as the fact you cant move the camera while punching or digging Warr1024: Also Aux1 is not sprint, that's and MTGism IhrFussel: I was responding to 'you cannot punch first since it's instant' wwar: aa.. no as long as u dont hold ur hand it will keep punching wwar: I really think punching/digging need a button just like left mouse click Warr1024: The problem is that if I want to sneak punch I technically can but not without non-sneak punching first, so then it may be too late. wwar: Adding that will remove this problem and will make people be able to move their camera while punching or digging Warr1024: I can see why they don't just use the cursor wwar: So you need a sneak+leftclick to activate something in a tool? Warr1024: But maybe allowing these to be toggles instead of held might be better Warr1024: Regular left click, sneak left click, aux left click, and sneak aux left click should all be able to be different things without breaking mobile wwar: hmm.. adding one button as left mouse click to android will make that Warr1024: Also making sneak and aux lock toggle on double tap could make it usable. IhrFussel: If your tool uses on_use() then punching will only trigger once unfortuantely which means it will be super hard to do on mobile wwar: > Also making sneak and aux lock toggle on double tap could make it usable. This isnt really needed, adding the button i mentioned will solve it, but maybe this as a setting you can enable/disable? wwar: Anything that needs sneak or sprint and leftclick at the sametime to activate will not work on phone wwar: Because these stuff needs to either start sneaking first or both at the sametime Warr1024: There are apparently issues that cover this stuff in GH still open, I just had a hard time finding them because they're 3 years old. wwar: I had a feature request, edited it a bit accordingly to this conversation Warr1024: Issue number or link? wwar: Oh sorry, #10843 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10843 -- Some edits on controls on phone devises Warr1024: That issue title feels like it could be made more dire :-) The lack of parity between platforms is more of an accessibility problem than just a nice to have tweak. wwar: About title, yeah it sucks i know wwar: So that means it had to be an issue not a feature request? Warr1024: It's a gray area maybe. The lack of ability to enter certain inputs I feel is a bug. Any particular approach to changing the controls though might be a feature, especially changing to a crosshair-centric system like desktop or adding a toggle for it. wwar: I felt that too, that will rdquire making an issue and a featue request Warr1024: Who actually maintains android anymore anyway? Are we dependent on upstreaming from forks for it like we were in the past? wwar: Require* wwar: no idea wwar: There is someone in credits who did some changes in android version tho Warr1024: Maybe it does deserve a separate issue specifically for the lack of parity... wwar: I mean.. it is only one and i think it will take some ages to be worked on wwar: If im gonna split it to an issue and featue request.. probably they will never be worked on Warr1024: Well, the proper flow of this would be to (1) identify the problem, i.e. that certain actions are simply impossible on mobile, and then (2) look at possible solutions (a left-click button or removing press-to-dig, vs sheak/aux toggles), and then (3) pick a solution that's actually practical and get it done. Without a mobile expert to weigh in we can't know how difficult each approach is to actually do on mobile, and thus we can't know MTDiscord: what's most likely to actually work within the development effort available. wwar: Well i will gladly make much issues wwar: I petsonally like reporting things to help development but when i see an issue with "high priority" that exist since 2014 i feel reporting these things is just adding an issue and it will never be fixed wwar: I will add an issue for that hard controling on android tho Warr1024: Haha, it's basically like people coming to the helpdesk, pushing past everyone to get to the front of the line: "but it's an emergency!" and then I say "oh, okay, emergencies are THAT line over there" and then point to the only line, which snakes around the block. Warr1024: Every time I ask someone to rank-order their issues there's a decent chance it will come back all tied for first, "they're ALL the most important!" wwar: Lol? wwar: I didnt say these are the most important while not reporting tho :þ Warr1024: I want to say that this is just how the software world works, but if you've ever sat in an Emergency Room waiting for 4+ hours, it seems like it's just how the world works. wwar: And im not blaming how it works Warr1024: What I'm saying is that even when the dev team itself prioritizes stuff, "high priority" doesn't necessarily mean it'll actually get worked on. wwar: Well, i mean when i see what is high priority waited 7 years and didnt get fix, its most likely im just adding the issue to increase the stuff that will never be worked on, i'll add an issue for that android thing tho, thought that feature request was enough Warr1024: To actually move forward, things need an intersection of someone with time available, someone with the necessary expertise in that particular area, high visibility for an issue, and a developer who actually agrees with the urgency ... even in my own projects I tend to accumulate new ultra-critical issues faster than they actually get done :-/ Warr1024: Yeah, I dunno Warr1024: It seems like old stale issues should be closed, but people want to hang onto them if they've had any level of discussion, but there isn't a really practical way to give them a good "bump" either... Warr1024: New fresh issues at least have a shot at making the cut, but it's also kind of dishonest to try closing an old issue and reopening one just to get it hot again :-) wwar: I understand that devs cant fix everything very fast Warr1024: It sucks for me too because (1) it's important to me that my game not discriminate against certain players, including mobile, and (2) I don't think I have the expertise to actually fix android controls. What this means is that I will need to make sure that anything requiring use of sneak while doing anything other than moving is non-essential for gameplay. It's rather limiting. wwar: I will gladly make issues for everything, and im not saying 'devs dont work' or something, i do understand the fact they made a free game for people to have fun and they dont have to spend all their time in it Warr1024: The most productive thing I feel I can do is help consolidate the issues around android so that they're gathered and organized in one place and can actually be reasonably prioritized ... but digging through a decade of issues that have all been handled inconsistently sucks too... wwar: I'd be proud to be the one who mentions the important bugs in phones as long as its being taked care of wwar: Thinking of a title for that issue im making rn.. expect a bad one tho Warr1024: haha Warr1024: Maybe what we need is one of those project/roadmap thingies that GH has, i.e. higher-order constructs that let you group and organize issues... wwar: Well i think that will help dev side to see what is most important.. wwar: @Warr1024 #11404 hope others wont say its a feature request ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11404 -- Android controls are very limited wwar: (Please ignore the titles of my issues) Warr1024: heh Warr1024: well, if there was an existing issue that covered this then I guess maybe we'll find out if it gets marked as duplicate Warr1024: When people mark things as duplicate though, they often don't go back and merge the non-duplicate parts of the new issue with the OP of the old issue, so that would probably need to be fixed if so... wwar: cant agree with that wwar: In my first issue, they labelled it as duplicate wwar: But after me telling them mine includes more details, they removed taht and closed the other one wwar: That* Warr1024: haha Warr1024: yeah, that's gotta be improved wwar: (And mine included more stuff needs to be fixec) wwar: Fixed* Warr1024: It does help to keep issues concise and focused and label them well. If you get too deep into the weeds in your topic, and it includes stuff that's not described in the title, then that stuff may get more easily lost. There's a fine art to filing issues, and if I find a method that works consistently with MT I'll let you know ;-) wwar: Heh, yeah when i make an issue i make it detailed and contain side stuff (and im nit the best with titles :þ) celeron55: the hairier you make an issue or a PR, the less likely it is to get solved or merged Warr1024: There's a balancing act because (1) you do need to clarify sometimes when something that sounds like an obvious solution wouldn't fill the actual need, and (2) too many fine-grained issues is just gonna make the issues list harder to search and navigate. wwar: Hairier? Warr1024: I believe "hairier" is used here to mean "more surface area." Warr1024: Like that request at the top for the ABM batched API that I partly misinterpreted the first time because it was just so long-winded... wwar: Ah i see Warr1024: A good issue is sort of like an elevator pitch. You get a limited amount of attention from anyone reading your issue, and you have to make the best use of it, to get them to understand your issue and agree that it's worth addressing. Warr1024: You need to be informative and persuasive so there isn't as much room to be contemplative... wwar: I dont think i used hard terms or things that is hard to be understood, if there are then please let me know wwar: > the hairier you make an issue or a PR, the less likely it is to get solved or merged i added that issue to help the devs in knowing how to improve the android version and how to make it easier to use.. solve it if you like, dont if you dont like.. wwar: Im personally used to the current controls, i use them for 5 years and they are good to me, but i mentioned what can be improved celeron55: by hairy i mean adding stuff not strictly related to the core issue or change, or something that someone can disagree on while agreeing on the main thing wwar: While fixing it you dont need to agree with everything in it, fix the things that you see uhmm.. make sense wwar: im saying everything related to the main issue, fix the ones you want/agree with Warr1024: The first person you need to sell an issue to is really yourself. If you don't really feel strongly enough about something to champion it then your issue probably won't go very far. wwar: I will not lose anything if it doesnt get merged tbh, and yeah i did ask myself and this wasnt the first time i think about controls Warr1024: As a developer, I've found that what I've come to call a Pigovian Tax is a pretty simple and adaptable way to tell if users really care about their issues or not, and if they don't care, then I probably shouldn't either. Warr1024: Just ask them to pay a little extra attention to see if they still care once they're forced to internalize some of the extra cost beyond just filing the issue. Ask them if the problem is still valid, or to provide some test cases, or to demonstrate it. Warr1024: If someone is asking me to stay late after work to fix some critical issue, then dammit, they're staying with me >:-| wwar: I understand that, i see merging it will do a huge difference in the game play, i was saying, i added it for help and im ready to add any needed information to it but i what i meant was that i mentioned the related things to it and u dont need to agee with the whole issue fix/merge the things you agree with wwar: If you have any question/need any farther info in any issue i added you can @me and i will do my best Warr1024: Yeah, it's all good. We'll see where it goes. Warr1024: I'd love for an issue like that to be championed by someone passionate about it, but I think all my passionate championing is already allocated elsewhere. wwar: Well if you ask me i will say that issue adds things that will change the whole gameplay and make the difference between playing on a phone and a pc alot less wwar: And i do want it to be merged and im always available to add more info in these covid days.. wwar: Was saying, when you disagree with a part of it you can either say why you disagree with that part or just not care about it Warr1024: One irony here is that I think the engine's goal should be parity between desktop and mobile (and it's a goal for my game), but it seems like there are segments of the server and modder population who go the opposite way and are actively trying to differentiate and discriminate against mobile users. wwar: Im not a programmer so i cant know what is easy to do and what isnt, but i really thought alot about that one and i see adding a single button to fix all that issues isnt hard to do wwar: Isnt as hard as the other things i thought of Warr1024: It's all a mess too because mobile controls need to be "intuitive" but then there's the question of "intuitive for whom" because what we call "intuition" is more often learned than innate. Warr1024: I don't play a ton on mobile but it is a decent way to play side-by-side multiplayer when the person you want to play sitting next to has their computer in a different room than your own. Warr1024: So far luckily I haven't run into any really game-breaking issues yet, but at least now I know I need to be on my guard. Warr1024: Can't just use the sneak and aux controls for whatever I want to; optional things only. wwar: I will gladly help in anything i can help with Warr1024: Heh, so apparently sneak+drop and aux+drop are possible on mobile, just awkward Warr1024: when you press and hold the sneak or aux keys, it closes the action menu that contains the drop command Warr1024: so you have to hold sneak THEN expand the menu and then hit drop Warr1024: but at least it's possible. Warr1024: IIRC sneak+dig is used in games as a convention for "actually just dig, don't punch" Warr1024: similar to how sneak+place is used for "actually place, don't right-click the thing I'm placing against" wwar: > Heh, so apparently sneak+drop and aux+drop are possible on mobile, just awkward Yes this is true also sneak/aux+rightclick(double click) works aswell, i think the problem is in leftclick(press hplding) it wont work while using sneak or aux since you are already pressing and holding on sneak/aux wwar: That is why my suggestion was a button, to not confuse the devise by holding to dig/punch and holding to aux/sneak at the sametime wwar: (i tried aux+drop in NC and it works well wwar: > when you press and hold the sneak or aux keys, it closes the action menu that contains the drop command > so you have to hold sneak THEN expand the menu and then hit drop Yeah.. since both are buttons one of them should be pressed longly to activate the other one by normal clicking while holding the first one, and since holding drop makes nothing, you gotta hold sneak or aux wwar: > similar to how sneak+place is used for "actually place, don't right-click the thing I'm placing against" This works fine in android, only leftclick(holding) have a problem Warr1024: Okay, good to know that the problem is limited to just LMB... wwar: good luck~ Warr1024: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11399#issuecomment-870744300 -- proof of concept works pretty nicely... Lone_Wolf: This does nothing if def.damage is 1 or 0 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/456539013491458079/859527153287823380/unknown.png Lone_Wolf: I expect fleshy = 1 to deal half a heart of damage Krock: 1 deals 1 HP damage Krock: might or might not by 1/2 of a heart Krock: s/by/be/ ghoti: In basic_robot, what function should I be looking at to use tools? I'd like to make a farming robot that harvests with a scythe rather than just punching the ground. Lone_Wolf: 1 deals 0 damage Lone_Wolf: 2 deals 1hp damage Lone_Wolf: aka a half heart calcul0n_: ghoti, i doubt it's possible, the bot can't use tools Lone_Wolf: Join the game with this mod enabled, you should have full health then after 5 seconds a half heart loss https://pastebin.com/kCSwH0Ve Lone_Wolf: (@Krock) Krock: @Lone_Wolf check for shield effect Krock: i.e. armor group. Lone_Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/fOoRKdw.png Lone_Wolf: (Player armor groups) Lone_Wolf: Ok, it's the full_punch_interval Lone_Wolf: What's the default when full_punch_interval isn't set? Krock: 1.4 according to engine defaults if nothing is specified Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/a106bfd456509b676ccba0ac9bef75c214819028/src/tool.h#L66 ghoti: calcul0n_: ah, so the best I can do is keep a running supply of seeds which I collect with pickup() ? (Or would a robot automatically pick up items freed while digging?) calcul0n_: ghoti, it will get seeds when you dig crops, but for some reason wheat is buggy so it doesn't get them all calcul0n_: might depend on the version you're using jordan4ibanez: Hahaha, ghoti I like your name independent56: I wish ARS has global variables, so you could have a group of lines for oversized trains. independent56: melatonin drunkness. independent56: my server gets 1 guest per day on average. they comment on the lag and leave specing: lool Lone_Wolf: Are particle velocities in nodes/s? Krock: @Lone_Wolf yes independent56: I have a 2 questions about advtrains. independent56: 1 - why do routes refuse to set sometimes, forcing me to use the map to find the stopped trains andfind the front of the queue, and enable that one route? independent56: 2 - Do railway maintainers on servers suffer this problem on a regular basis? independent56: 3 - Does this happen in LF? independent56: 4 - If not, why not? independent56: Forgive me, i lied about the quantity of questions Lone_Wolf: Sweet, thanks Krock: LF = linefeed Krock: CR = carriage return ?? specing: LF = linux forks independent56: Yeah, sorry. I am used to calling it "LF" because i wrote about the server a lot (in a degrading way) in a personal document. independent56: LF is entirely for trains. But my passion for trains caused me to overlook the quality of moderation there erlehmann: i want to create an LBM that updates node meta with new content. is it a good idea to register the lbm name based on the new content i want to put in the node meta? SwissalpS: a descriptive name is a good name :) Krock: ignore comments and descriptive names. return to minimalism. use one-letter variables and compress your code! erlehmann: SwissalpS, Krock i mean this so that if the content changes the node meta is always updated SwissalpS: something tells me we are responding to a question you did not ask. In other words: I probably didn't quite understand exactly what you are asking Warr1024: An LBM is triggered when a node is contained in a mapblock which is just loaded, i.e. from disk or mapgen. If what you want is to set meta every time a node is actually placed into the world, then that can be more or less complex, depending on the ways that node could be placed. Warr1024: You can use an on_construct call to catch most ways a node can be placed; you miss only vmanips and fluid transform IIRC. An LBM is useful to update nodes that already existed in the map before you add the construction hook. erlehmann: yeah so erlehmann: in this case mineclone2 has removed formspecs from node metas erlehmann: but mineclonia has them there erlehmann: you know, it's the lag friendly solution erlehmann: so if you migrate a server from mineclone2 past commit 819dbc6224c3b96ad4094cccf3d9150f3ef61d45 to mineclonia, ender chests will not work erlehmann: i want to introduce an LBM that sets the formspec for existing ender chests erlehmann: it is, as Warr1024 correctly assumed, usually set when an ender chest is built SwissalpS: yeah, sounds like lbm can help there. one time only needed, most likely. erlehmann: well, the trick is: by making the name of the lbm depend on the formspec using minetest.sha1(formspec) (is that correct?), i want to ensure that every time the formspec is updated, a new lbm is created. erlehmann: now i am looking for reasons to not do that Warr1024: LBMs have to have a modname: prefix, but other than that, I don't see much problem with that idea Warr1024: except in the case where they change the formspec to A, then to B, then back to A again SwissalpS: one would need to carefully test that with every update Warr1024: yeah, it feels like either manual versioning, or an external script that's a bit more complex than just the formspec contents itself, would be needed. SwissalpS: you can also leave a trail in the meta of the node too. erlehmann: wdym trail Warr1024: Keeping track of past values in the node won't help you inform the engine of the need to run an LBM to find those nodes in the first place though. SwissalpS: most likely the lbm that deletes meta does not delete all entries, only certain known ones. so your own meta would stay untouched. Alowing you to check it and other meta entries to determine what needs to be added. you could cache data in your own keys for example Warr1024: So if they change the formspec from A to B to A2 then you'll need to retire the A and the B LBMs and have an A2 one to make sure that all the ones that have run both A and B go back to A again. erlehmann: nah in this case the meta is pretty easy SwissalpS: Warr: true, unless you have the lbm run on every load and look for specific node. Warr1024: You ... frankly could just run on every load I guess :-) Warr1024: Checking a meta string is not THAT expensive. SwissalpS: it sounds like the simpler solution yes. Warr1024: The wasted effort of rechecking a handful of nodes unnecessarily may be well worth it to avoid the headaches of having to track down every weird corner cases that upstream changes may trigger. SwissalpS: +1 Warr1024: Just (1) try the run_on_every_load option or whatever it's called, and then (2) don't worry about it again unless you encounter a problem with it, and then come back and ask again :-) Warr1024: Ender chests should be rare enough that you wouldn't notice a problem anyway. Somebody would have to build an entire fortress out of the things before e.g. slow loading times from this should become a problem. SwissalpS: dynamically creating lbms sounds like asking for trouble Warr1024: I mean, modding MT is asking for trouble to begin with ... and automatic dynamic LBMs sounds interesting :-) Warr1024: If you don't like asking for trouble then you don't want to see what I've done with ABMs :-) erlehmann: Warr1024 show and tell erlehmann: pls Warr1024: Exhibit A: the engine caches info about ABMs for speed, but the cache strategy is completely disabled if there are more than like 63 ABMs. I have a game that has 82 ABMs. I realize that many of them have similar signatures from the engine's perspective, so I create a system for automatically multiplexing them that allows me to squash them into about 36 and make caching work again. MTDiscord: https://gitlab.com/sztest/nodecore/-/blob/master/mods/nc_api_active/abmmux.lua Warr1024: Exhibit B: ABM neighbor checks are expensive, so if you want an ABM to run when common node A is next to rare node B, it's more efficient to check for B next to A, but I have a number of ABMs already written in the first form, and it would be a pain to invert them across the whole mod ecosystem. Instead, I'd rather just add a "neighbor_invert" flag to the ABM API that does this for me in the most reasonable way I can: MTDiscord: https://gitlab.com/sztest/nodecore/-/blob/master/mods/nc_api_active/abminvert.lua Warr1024: There's probably other crazy stuff in there too. I used to have an auto-rate-limiting ABM system, but that ended up being stubbed out as ABM time budgeting constraints have evolved to make it no longer make sense. erlehmann: Warr1024 what is the reason for the caching being disabled? robyndrake: what version of lua is used with minetest, and where can I download such an interpretor? robyndrake: please? Krock: Lua 5.1 Krock: with with JIT or without Krock: luarocks might use it, dunno. Warr1024: erlehmann: A single 64-bit integer is used as a bitmap to track the applicable/not-applicable state of an ABM within a given mapblock, and if there are too many ABMs to fit in that bitmap then it just gives up on the whole thing. I don't know exactly why it was done this way or what would have had to be done differently to allow it to expand dynamically. robyndrake: will lua 5.1.5 work Krock, and thank you btw Krock: robyndrake: yes robyndrake: Thank you again Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! erlehmann: https://content.minetest.net/help/content_flags/ erlehmann: the content flags are all for disgusting stuff erlehmann: i guess buttplug.io interfacing would be banned :( erlehmann: oh erlehmann: i can just say it is for the xbox controller ^^ erlehmann: of my … xbox erlehmann: hehe Warr1024: Not necessarily "disgusting" but "potentially objectionable". Tags are things you'd be looking to find, content flags are things you'd be looking to avoid. Warr1024: I believe the de facto standard is that content with no content flags should be PEGI7 and content flags allow for specific exceptions to that standard where set. Warr1024: Of course there are some packages that use them incorrectly, like a few that use the "horror" flag somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Calinou: Map Tools 2.2.0 released. Coin crafting recipes are now disabled by default: https://github.com/minetest-mods/maptools/releases/tag/v2.2.0 Calinou: also More Blocks 2.2.0: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/releases/tag/v2.2.0 Calinou: and More Ores 2.1.0: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreores/releases/tag/v2.1.0 wwar: Nice updates :+1: Swift110-mobile_: Hey folks Sven_vB: hi :) Jonathon: hi VanessaE: so I was looking at the profiler output on one of my servers.. VanessaE: https://pastebin.com/yfCUewEu VanessaE: line 126... why is the mod there identified only as "??" ? VanessaE: I think it's biome_lib, and if so I'd like to fix that, but how? independent56: ok... so is this how bouncers work? http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/35cb6657 i disconnect, and it replays all the history? Jonathon: ?? Is used when the engine cant figure out what a mod is. For crashes/mod origin/profiling VanessaE: sure, but that raises the question of why it can't figure it out. no mapblocks were harmed in the making of that profiler dump (i.e. no crashes were involved) :) Jonathon: If you register a node in register_on_mods loaded it cant figure it out celeron55: i was thinking the same, the only time the engine knows what mod is running is when it loads them celeron55: anything they do in a callback is a complete mystery to the engine celeron55: so make sure to use a good label in those celeron55: well, except that only abms support profiler labels VanessaE: but I'm talking about a globalstep, they don't have labels :) celeron55: i guess those should be added to others too celeron55: labels i mean sfan5: there's core.set_last_run_mod celeron55: or, just register the globalstep callback at load time sfan5: which is also used to identify callbacks VanessaE: I... um... do. celeron55: ok show the code VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/biome_lib/-/blob/master/block_queue_checks.lua VanessaE: ah wait sfan5: (what I mean are these -> https://0x0.st/-pp6.txt) VanessaE: that bit of code is loaded in a minetest.after() VanessaE: I completely forgot about that sfan5: so the engine could probably tell you it was biome_lib in a crash message but the profiler doesn't seem to use this info VanessaE: sfan5: your link doesn't load for me. sfan5: it's the output of grep -n -C4 'last_run' builtin -r VanessaE: set_last_run_mod() isn't mentioned in lua_api.txt... sfan5: of course not, it's internal VanessaE: right. VanessaE: that still leaves me with no way to identify this bit of code in the profiler :) VanessaE: here's where it's loaded, btw: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/biome_lib/-/blob/master/init.lua#L80 sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/register.lua#L472 sfan5: since get_current_modname only works at load time this could probably fall back to get_last_run_mod VanessaE: wait wait, so I actually found an engine bug for once? ;) sfan5: just a missing feature ;) VanessaE: heh AndrewYu: https://andrewyu.org/bin/mtbuilderror -- what am i doing wrong? AndrewYu: gnutls? celeron55: try adding #include to the beginning-ish of clientiface.cpp like it suggests * AndrewYu: may try celeron55: what OS is that? celeron55: and compiler celeron55: also versions of those AndrewYu: Linux core 5.12.13-arch1-1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed, 23 Jun 2021 16:19:29 +0000 x86_64 GNU/Linux ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome AndrewYu: gcc version 11.1.0 (GCC) sfan5: are you building 5.4.1? sfan5: we have this fix in master github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7c2826cbc celeron55: well that's definitely it AndrewYu: hmm AndrewYu: i cloned that repo like a long time ago, that's why celeron55: you just need to git pull then AndrewYu: yeh AliasAlreadyTake: VanessaE: We had a similar problem when it came to profiling core.after, so we added profiling to builtin. Our "profiling" doesn't go to the MT profiler, but writes to a table which you can then export eventually. It does nothing but calculate the times core.after uses for each one. AndrewYu: What is the limitation of MT displaying unicode, ie. Chinese charactars 像这样? Fonts? Protocol? (I hope it'd be fonts. Then it could be fixed with a simple client modification) Warr1024: Have you tried it and found it not to be working? I would expect the fonts to be the only barrier... Warr1024: As I recall, MT ships with Arimo and Cousine fonts, and I don't know what their unicode coverage is like. I think Noto Sans has very good coverage though, so maybe swapping it in would work. Warr1024: Unfortunately I think font installation may be manual, which means probably particularly annoying on android? You have to install the fonts either system-wide maybe or in ~/.minetest/fonts... AndrewYu: True AndrewYu: I'm on archlinux, it should be okay. However, one of my friends is on Windows, which *might* make things harder MNH48: for CJK characters, it's just font... I used Noto Sans CJK and it will usually appear fine MNH48: but for arabic, there might be separate issue * AndrewYu: is not arabic :D Warr1024: I remember the issue with Noto Sans being that there are so many characters in unicode they couldn't fit them all into one font Warr1024: Minetest also only shows text in one font at a time and doesn't switch fonts based on language, so I think it probably doesn't do the "fallback" font thing AndrewYu: I guess I AndrewYu: I'm going to use Noto Sans CJK SC for my chinese Warr1024: I think on Windows installing a font is just the same process, isn't it? Find the font, drop it into the minetest "fonts" folder, and then change the font setting, whatever that is * AndrewYu: will try to let his friend solve Windows since AndrewYu is a windows idiot Pexin: AndrewYu: are you talking chat output or formspec? MNH48: the chat does work in displaying chinese, when font is set to Noto Sans CJK SC ... though input might be a problem on windows side MNH48: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/858206643313311764/unknown.png independent56_: ahaha, yeah "farTown" is a much better name independent56_: is there a way, using amidst, that i can see contours? i need a relitively flat section of land for a settlement, but i dont want to load all those mapblocks scouting, i need to use amidst. AntumDeluge: Is it possible, in a mod, to show a node texture to one player, but show a different texture on the same node to a different player? AntumDeluge: I have my own fork of the walking_light mod. It has a debugging mode that changes the texture of nodes with light added. However, when the debugging is enabled, all players see the texture change. I was wondering if it would be possible to only show the texture change to the admin that invoked the command to enable debugging. Or, as an alternative, only show the texture to players that have a certain privilege. AntumDeluge: https://github.com/AntumMT/mod-walking_light/blob/bf57713/chat.lua#L70 Warr1024: The only visuals you can show to selected players only as far as I know are particles and HUDs Warr1024: There are also image waypoint HUDs so you don't have to use text waypoints. Warr1024: Obviously both are extremely limited in that you can de fact only show sprites with them Warr1024: I have an "admin mode" in my puzzlemap mod that allows admins to see nodes that have special attributes attached to them, and I believe I ended up using particles to do that. It was very much not ideal but I don't think there were really better options. AntumDeluge: Thank you @Warr1024. I appreciate that input. It sounds like particles may be what I need to use. I was just now looking at waypoints (as I know nothing about them, & it was suggested I use them for a different mod). But sounds like from what you say, I won't be able to use them to visually represent a node on the screen. Extex: Is there some way to find Servers that contain a certain mod? Extex: Like you can see what mods a specific server has but is there a way to see what servers have a mod AntumDeluge: As far as I know, there is no way to look it up. AntumDeluge: I know that some servers use a specific game. If you know the game they use, you can look up which mods that particular game includes. AntumDeluge: There is the /mods chat command, but you can only use that once you have connected. And not sure if need any special privileges to use it. Warr1024: the server list actually captures mod lists from servers, IF they're using the normal MT server software or otherwise volunteer that information when pinged by the server list Warr1024: searching the server list requires you to parse the JSON probably Warr1024: the data is definitely there for at least some servers because you can see it on the HTML-formatted list too... AntumDeluge: @Warr1024 I see what you mean. I went to https://servers.minetest.net/ and by hovering my cursor over Version, Subgame[, Mapgen] column, I can see the installed mods for many of them. independent56_: extex: you might do a crtl+f in https://servers.minetest.net. there, you can look for the mod, and it might show up. independent56_: nope, but in https://server.minetest.net/list you will be able to do that. one warning - it is unformatted. no syntax colouring. expect to get eyestraon independent56_: https://servers.minetest.net/list <-- not broken link independent56_: yes, its a hack. but it will work. twoelk: hm, activated coolTrees and moreTrees, now my map gets taken over by giant trees. I also installed all flower mods I could find -- it's a lush world twoelk: oops, giant sequias pop up everywhere, this can't be right VanessaE: that's the idea :D VanessaE: except not really VanessaE: they ARE limited to certain areas VanessaE: https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/worldmaps/Traintable_World/map.html#20/-338.00000/-278.50000 VanessaE: this is carpathian mapgen with the full suite of flora VanessaE: you can see by browsing around where they'll show up, like at the west end of that east/west road independent56_: https://imgur.com/a/1QaNu05 please rate my sextuple track viaduct. i spent 30 minutes on it. VanessaE: (I tried to make them need dry-ish conditions) twoelk: including that beautiflowers mod and nettles mod and wine and cuchina vegana and .... ? VanessaE: well I don't have THOSE VanessaE: but between plantlift, moretrees, and cool_trees there isn't much room left :D VanessaE: plantlife* twoelk: that's the problem I was having VanessaE: well it doesn't help that the engine tends to overload the landscape with default trees twoelk: seems I got to limit moretrees somewhat VanessaE: that map I linked? that's typical of what I see on brand new worlds VanessaE: btw if you don't mind a little lag, you can configure moretrees to spawn the trees themselves at mapgen time, rather than spawning them as saplings that grow a bit later twoelk: I really like how cooltrees gives more variety to jungles and tundra VanessaE: independent56_: it looks like total ass and you should be ashamed. VanessaE: :P VanessaE: (it looks fine :) ) independent56_: XD yeah independent56_: i mean, if i didnt fold it, then it would look worse. double deckerr was the only solution independent56_: but mainly, i end up with horrible straight tracks. https://imgur.com/a/RuY8VLT each of those lines is a track. i built multiple ones because "why not?" twoelk: playing with flower mods twoelk: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/858269670867992596/screenshot_20210626_091629.png VanessaE: independent56_: you should play on my traintable server VanessaE: seems like you'd bring some order to the chaos that is its current rail system :P independent56_: link to images? VanessaE: don't have any handy twoelk: desert plants didn't spread as intended - they had plans of their own twoelk: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/858270256120594432/screenshot_20210626_092131.png independent56_: screenshot > imgur > save lives (UK gov parody) VanessaE: except that map link is current as of just minutes ago independent56_: hmm, show me the link. i can look at the chaos VanessaE: https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/worldmaps/Traintable_World/map.html#20/-355.00000/-533.50000 independent56_: wow... thats a long url VanessaE: twoelk, a bit much don't you think? :P independent56_: modestly sized, cool server. i prefer my own. twoelk: yeah, like I said. - They might have plottet to take over VanessaE: lol independent56_: you put my "airport" to shame: http://2.26.38.198:8080/#!/map/0/11/-226/-66 VanessaE: I didn't build it :) VanessaE: I think User11 or ck43 did independent56_: well, you supervised it's building. VanessaE: nope independent56_: 0_0 VanessaE: I was barely even there independent56_: "let me just get into this server, build silenty, and leave haha i am so evil" VanessaE: heh independent56_: let me show you a comparison image of old spawn station and new one independent56_: if it loads... independent56_: https://imgur.com/a/6N4flRi independent56_: the second image is all i have independent56_: zoom in XD twoelk: looks very simplistic - could use some structural elements giving the space some rythm - but then again that is what many modern stations look like independent56_: yeah, i was aiming for that look. and all the more space to see your train twoelk: is sofar around? his flower pot mod and his item frame mod seem broken twoelk: in mt 5.dev twoelk: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/858275036842295336/flowerpotbroken.png twoelk: that's supposed to be a viola in the pot and frame twoelk: somebody allready mentioned that in Nov 2020 in the forum in the frames thread independent56_: im hoinh to write an issue for minetest about powerusers specing: What's the issue? independent56_: issue 11 K independent56_: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11392 specing: > forced to make use of my touch pad specing: get a trackpoint lmao independent56_: XD yeah nah. Warr1024: Is it possible to override minetest.conf settings at the world level for SP, e.g. via world.mt? Warr1024: I have in the past used minetest.settings:set() to enforce world-specific config, e.g. as could be done in a worldmod, but this "leaks out" into the minetest.conf file and thus also affects worlds that want to use a default value. appguru: You can reset settings on shutdown appguru: As the game might crash, you should probably persistently store old values as _old_somesetting = old_value and restore them on next start Warr1024: ...well yes but actually (shudder) appguru: heh, you can even change the font - and it will work - this way appguru: it's brilliant Warr1024: I can't restore them on start though because if the next start is into the world that runs this mod code, then it won't want the settings restored, and if it's into one that doesn't, it won't have the code to do the restoring. appguru: yep, users will have to rejoin your world after the crash appguru: or at least have to use the mod in both worlds Warr1024: Ugh ... I mean, is there a real solution I can try first before I try to find the end on the roll of duct tape? appguru: Sir, this is a Minetest's VanessaE: so... VanessaE: I have a wireguard VPN set up, which I've initially configured so that the only that's routed over it is access to a webpage/service that runs on the endpoint machine (unrelated to anything I'm asking about), while all other traffic normally just goes straight out without routing through the VPN layer. VanessaE: the endpoint machine... you all know it. runs my game servers too VanessaE: If I adjust the wireguard config so that ALL traffic is routed through it, everything works just fine and the world thinks I'm in France. VanessaE: Except... I can't connect to my MT servers VanessaE: I can reach webpages running on the machine, and literally everything else works, but the client can't reach the servers -- the connection times out VanessaE: (the config adjustment above is a single-line change, the AllowedIPs setting) Warr1024: NAT for UDP might be a bit more complicated because the NATting side may not implicitly know to create applicable reverse routes...? Might have to use bidirectional NAT instead of traditional? VanessaE: I ... am not sure I understandf VanessaE: -f Warr1024: I've solved the opposite problem, i.e. forwarding ONLY MT traffic from a gateway machine to a host. Warr1024: The situation parallels yours in that it involves MT servers and wireguard. The difference is that the MT server host has no means of setting up forwarding, but I had a spare VPS box that I could use so he's basically borrowing just the IP/ports from me. Warr1024: Users connect to the public MT server, iptables on the VPS forwards the connections thru wireguard, and his host "dials out" with wireguard to setup the tunnel to make his MT servers available. VanessaE: wait wait VanessaE: you're looking at it from the wrong side :P Warr1024: Yeah, I only have a solution from the wrong side VanessaE: everyone else can reach the MT servers except me :) Warr1024: so I'm not sure if it can help you, but maybe there is some insight buried in here VanessaE: I mean, the VPN endpoint IS the machine the games are running on Warr1024: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p udp --dport $PUBLICPORT -j DNAT --to-destination $WGPEERADDRESS:$MTPORT iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o wg0 -j MASQUERADE Warr1024: Hmm, so you're like VPNing into your MT server to make your traffic come from the MT server? Warr1024: the problem might be that you can't connect out to the public IP of the MT server, you'd have to use the private internal IP VanessaE: to make my own internet traffic seem to originate from that machine, yes. Warr1024: but sometimes you can fake it to rewrite outbound traffic to the public IP as going to the private one instead Warr1024: but that depends a lot on your specific firewall and iptables is not one I know well. VanessaE: ok, I didn't think to try using the endpoint's WG IP.. * VanessaE: tries Warr1024: I know that on OpenBSD using pf it's an issue, and I use a "redirection" to rewrite all traffic VanessaE: AH VanessaE: THAt works Warr1024: Yeah, that'll work, but that's gotta be annoying having to have different addresses depending on whether you're using the VPN or not... VanessaE: I can reach the game server if I use the remote's wg IP instead of the public domain/IP Warr1024: (and it being different from your regular players) VanessaE: ok, so VanessaE: the MT server saw me as connecting from 10.5.5.1, my PC's end of the VPN layer Warr1024: Yep, that's how it works VanessaE: which is what I expected. Warr1024: the VPN is like a separate network adapter with its own address and network and such Warr1024: and that's what you connected using VanessaE: but why won't MT answer, yet nginx, for example, does? Warr1024: if you can figure out the redirection/rewrite rule then you can make it so you can connect to the public IP but you'll still always see the VPN IP from MT's perspective. VanessaE: I mean, I can point my browser at any webpage that's served-up from the nginx instance on the server, using the public domain/IP, and it works Warr1024: The MT/nginx thing is why I suspect there's a TCP/UDP disparity in how the firewall is handling state. VanessaE: hm VanessaE: and something in your iptables command may be the answer? Warr1024: That seems weird to me because when I use pf, it handles TCP/UDP about the same, i.e. it seems to either work or not work for each using the same rules. I don't know why iptables should require different rules for UDP to work, but then, I don't see why iptables should do a lot it does the way it does. Warr1024: Yeah, my iptables command is at least worth trying to understand ... maybe I should do that some day. Warr1024: It could also be an MT thing I suppose. The dude who's actually hosting the servers has had all sorts of headaches trying to get MT to accept every connection on every port 30000 ... but in his case the biggest headache was an IPv4/v6 issue at the time. Warr1024: Using wg now everything is just pure v4 so I think things are simpler now at least. VanessaE: maybe this then, iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p udp --dport 30000:40000 -j DNAT --to-destination 10.5.5.1 iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o wg0 -j MASQUERADE Warr1024: As long as you don't decapitate yourself by changing something that would affect port 22, you can always experiment :-) VanessaE: hm, missed a semicolon and I guess I want the server's wg IP in there. VanessaE: BINGO VanessaE: thanks :D independent56_: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=guidelines:railway_guide can i get some critiscism of my article? Krock: cannot edit independent56_: you shouldnt independent56_: just tell me what is wrong Krock: why not entuland: meh, the page is "classed" as good, doesn't have a capital letter at the beginning of the sentences -literally none - and drops into useless antagonizing and gratuitous belittling of other people's work / world independent56_: it's my wiki, i say what i like. it is written formally, and it is wiki styke to not have capital letters. that server is the one which gave me endeless suffering. * entuland: shrugs Krock: btw: "I" is always written in capitals Krock: but I dId not mean It lIke thIs but only for the person "I" independent56_: ok I wIll do that all the tIme now. rubenwardy: > this page is classed as good. it features good writing and is to be held as an example of good pages. rubenwardy: https://rwdy.uk/BTvDu.png rubenwardy: > written formally rubenwardy: > no capital letters specing: lol independent56_: meh, my wiki entuland: rubenwardy++ entuland: independent56_, you asked for criticism independent56_: and i assume full and undesputed control over rating. Krock: thanks rubenwardy. perfect meme use rubenwardy: also booo https://rwdy.uk/vilx2.png independent56_: i meant in terms of the advice, or sentence slips. not the capitals or rating. Krock: also get a domain rubenwardy: yeah, raw IP addresses are super super dodgy independent56_: i should... too much bother for mum. rubenwardy: if you want a free one you can use minetest.land Krock: less dodgy than benrob's shady website... https://totallynotashadyweb.site/ independent56_: ha! tiddlywiki! Krock: with edit permissions from what it looks like Warr1024: Tiddlywiki, nice, but that layout... Krock: ahhh yeessss Krock: new entry *check* independent56_: as long as it dosent save to the server, i think that's fine Krock: aw snap. it really seems to be local only rubenwardy: it's hosted using gitlab pages rubenwardy: so no hope for being user-editable Krock: unless it has git integration independent56_: can anyone tell me a about a dokuwiki plugin which will automaticaly capitalise? Krock: don't capitalise. be a communist. rubenwardy: you could try this: https://rwdy.uk/WSeOf.png Krock: rubenwardy: no, the upper key is more reliable Krock: ALLOWS YOU TO CAPITALISE EVERYTHING EASIER independent56_: too much effort to edit every page and do that. Krock: perhaps write it correctly from the beginning? independent56_: i would have done that if i was not so stupid independent56_: anYways, aLl this Discussion of Capital LeTters, and yoU are not Using TheM? rubenwardy: context rubenwardy: It's fine to not use capitals consistently in a chat, but not in a "formal" article rubenwardy: or any article with longform text Krock: with incomplete sentences at times rubenwardy: chat tends to be incomplete sentences, and at most one sentence independent56_: hmm... well i need to use a perl script to find and regexreplace stuff... like i go do "\. (.)" to "\. $1". independent56_: maybe not a script, but a command, like sed. independent56_: but i will have to test in one test file. appguru: You can't really uses RegExes, you'll need a proper document tree appguru: For the content of nodes you will then be able to use regexes to split it into sentences, of which you should capitalize the first letter appguru: Probably you should use a natural language processing library for the latter though appguru: https://polyglot.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html <- polyglots tokenization would do the job appguru: Let the serial wheel reinventor tell you one thing: You can often be a thousand times faster if you don't reinvent the wheel. independent56_: is there any guide to build a railyard in advtrains? i am unsure. mainly about getting trains to stick there, and making interlocking give them the right route. if it is only luacontrollers then i might be able to get it to work. independent56_: like, assign routing codes to trains because of occupied track, letting the signal set the route, making it sit there with luaatc, then when there is too little, out they go!. specing: independent56_: use the source, Luke independent56_: haha independent56_: i should make some code and publish it independent56_: on my wiki independent56_: my pastebin gets status reports every 30 minutes, so it adds up and it is spam. independent56_: and wikis allow changes to the source Benrob0329: Krock: It does have Git integration actually, you can give it a Github/Gitlab API key that it will save in local storage and commit upon save..assuming you have write access to the repository. Krock: @Benrob0329 heh that's pretty cool I guess.. but for wikis I'd really prefer a database rather than a git repo Krock: unless git is used as database to keep track of changes. hmm... celeron55: git as a backend to a wiki sounds pretty good actually rubenwardy: github wikis use git as a backend Krock: on second thought yes. unusual but good rubenwardy: it makes a lot of sense for a wiki Benrob0329: Its just because I can host it for free really :P * independent56_: laughs in dokuwiki not having a database Benrob0329: I have a Wiki.js instance though that is gonna be backed to a git repo whenever I get around to actually putting stuff onto it Benrob0329: Was gonna be a collaborative world building project, but I haven't had much writing inspiration as of late independent56_: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:re_railyard independent56_: ok, there is the source independent56_: if anyone has any information regarding the ability to see the trains and when to store them, contact me. independent56_: ha independent56_: * y5nw is now known as ywang* ywang is now known as y5nw y5nw: I did that accidentally y5nw: sorry, connection problem independent56: aye, i feel ye pain. i had that all the time (hence the rgular timeouts when i was part of the server) independent56: oh wait he has gone /_/ y5nw: eh, I'm still here independent56: could you direct me to some resources about how to build a railyard? i have got some of the luaatc sorted out, but wish o know what the amount of traffic is. independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:re_railyard this is where the code is hosted. specing: independent56: join the linux forks server, most of the train experts should be there independent56: if i wasn't deeply unwelcome there Jonathon: isnt he still banned from there? 🤔 independent56: perma. independent56: it was a horrendous decision to project my noony state onto that server. independent56: but i might as well use an alt to sneak information out. Jonathon: nothing like telling everyone your comming independent56: mainly psychological... warfare? independent56: well, not warfare, just a mean-spirited joke Jonathon: your one of those people like suchtea where they join on an alt, and just talking reveal themselves y5nw: ^ independent56: XD yeah, my speaking style is very 56i. specing: looool specing: banned for ...? independent56: wait.. isn't independent56_ is an alt of 56i... independent56: specing, first a fair reason, then unfair, then fair Jonathon: according to you independent56: 2/3 is'nt bad independent56: /j specing: lol independent56: i have a full explenation buried in the wiki y5nw: Anyway, regarding train counting, you can use the S variable for that independent56: wdym? can i have a code example? y5nw: entry: if event.train then S.counter = (S.counter or 0) + 1 end y5nw: exit: if event.train then S.counter = (S.counter or 1) - 1 end y5nw: basically a counter should be enough to an extent independent56: hmm independent56: does it need to be a global variable? y5nw: *facepalm* independent56: so it is a global variable already? y5nw: Go ahead and read this: http://git.bananach.space/advtrains.git/tree/advtrains_luaautomation/README.md?h=release-2.3.1#n52 independent56: ohhhhh independent56: i literally did not know that piece of docs have existed. independent56: im going to class capital letters as bitter medicine. AntumDeluge: I want to iterate over a group of positions (or nodes) within a certain radius of a player. Would I use vector? For example, I want to populate a radius of 4 around the player with a certain node. How do I iterate over all positions within that radius? I see the method minetest.bulk_set_node, but I still need to find all the positions. Krock: VManip, then zyx loops and pythagoras range checks if you want a shpere AntumDeluge: Yes, I do want a sphere. Thanks. I will research that. (now that I think about it more, the mod I forked should already have the answer in it somewhere) AntumDeluge: Oh, I think I can actually just use minetest.find_nodes_in_area AntumDeluge: But that will probably give me a cube? Warr1024: almost everything is cubes by default Warr1024: if you want a sphere, you can do vector.distance(pos, center) < radius, or if you really want to be perf-optimal and avoid the sqrt, local diff = vector.subtract(pos, center) then vector.dot(diff, diff) < radius^2 Warr1024: If you want to iterate over them in a particular order, like nearest first, then that's a bit more interesting. erlehmann: if i rename an lbm in a game, will it be run again? erlehmann: like suppose i had a game erlehmann: where an lbm ran erlehmann: than a second one ran in a later version erlehmann: and i downgraded again erlehmann: can i rename the old lbm to get it to re-run? Calinou: is the up-to-date form `minetest.settings:get` or `minetest.setting_get()`? Calinou: to get a minetest.conf setting Warr1024: erlehmann, yeah, you probably need a rename, and the rename should work I think? Warr1024: Calinou, the former format is the current one I believe Calinou: thanks :) AntumDeluge: Yes, minetest.settings:get mmuller: hey, are the mobs mods mostly up-to-date (as in -- run well with each other and latest minetest)? mmuller: also, and recommendations for good mobs mods? mmuller: *any wwar: Well in content db you will find mobs_redo, mobs_animal and mobs_monster in the first pages so they are techincally the best Jonathon: just because something is first does not mean that it is the best wwar: Best reviews Jonathon: in fact mobs redo performance is not that great wwar: yeah low quality but its api is easy to use, doesnt make laggy mobs Jonathon: >doesnt make laggy mobs but yet it does independent56_: i wish mapserver would do more then a map, like telling me if ars is on in a signal, or type of train... just all extra information i need. independent56_: but you could argue that if i cared that much, i would add the features already. VanessaE: anyone awake? I need some help with mod security.. sfan5: hi VanessaE: I need minetest.get_dir_list() to read from a dir outside of the mod/world dir VanessaE: I put the mod in secure.trusted_mods, then in the code I requested an insecure environ, local ie=that, then ie.get_dir_list(), but it's blocking access VanessaE: (I'm preparing a feature for skinsdb) VanessaE: well, ie.core.get_dir_list() that is sfan5: the fact that get_dir_list exists in the insecure environment is misleading VanessaE: oh? sfan5: you get an insecure environment but the engine methods are always sandboxed VanessaE: fuck. sfan5: (unless mod security is disabled wholesale) sfan5: I have wondered about this in the past but didn't bother to create an issue sfan5: you could be the one to do it ;) VanessaE: I'm trying to create a new option in skinsdb such that it can read from a global directory (and another it can write to), which all of my servers would then use BuckarooBanzai: btw: had the same issue with `minetest.mkdir` (not available in an insecure env) VanessaE: so wait, is there no way at all then to do this? sfan5: if you want it to work you can always use os.popen(string.format("ls %q", path)) sfan5: "ls '%q'" actually VanessaE: I can't guarantee the game would be running on Linux. VanessaE: unless windows has an 'ls' command :P sfan5: interestingly "dir" works on both windows and linux sfan5: but this is the best you get unless the engine issue is solved sfan5: unless you pull in luafilesystem or something similar, which then leads to other annoyances * VanessaE: sighs VanessaE: > =os.popen(string.format("ls '%q'", "/")) VanessaE: stdin:1: attempt to call field 'popen' (a nil value) sfan5: io.popen sfan5: I was thinking of python VanessaE: oh, io VanessaE: I should have caught that VanessaE: hm, no, that's still not right.. VanessaE: > for _,i in pairs(io.popen(string.format("ls %q", "/home"))) do print(i) end VanessaE: stdin:1: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got userdata) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome sfan5: it returns a file handle you can read from VanessaE: ah VanessaE: > local d=io.popen(string.format("ls %q", "/home")) while true do l=d:read("*line") if not l then break end print("---"..l) end VanessaE: bingo. VanessaE: (the --- just to prove to myself that it's working) VanessaE: now to see if it works in-game VanessaE: well it doesn't crash anyway :P VanessaE: it works :) VanessaE: thanks! VanessaE: well getting the list is successful.. now to make it actually WORK. :P celeron55: maybe it's good that it's not too easy to do insecure things? 8-) VanessaE: :P VanessaE: but it seems like there's no way to access an image file that's outside the usual MT dirs and forward it to clients, so I have to copy the "global" files to skinsdb's textures dir at startup anyway :-/ VanessaE: * `minetest.dynamic_add_media(filepath, callback)` ... can this add images from outside the mod/world dir? VanessaE: hm, probably isn't what I want anyway celeron55: i don't know, but i'm going to guess you'll have to copy them to the media directory for some reason or another celeron55: it's a bit iffy to change how all those work for trusted mods just because one out of 1000 wants to do something * VanessaE: sighs independent56_: how do i prevent client sqlite errors when two players join my server from the same computer? VanessaE: is there anywhere other than $modpath/textures that I can dump png files and still have MT find them normally? maybe in $worldpath? sfan5: $worldpath/worldmods/dummy/textures VanessaE: mmh sfan5: also I think there's some way to have the server read a texturepack folder VanessaE: that's in the gamepath VanessaE: I think VanessaE: I got the "global" feature working well enough to "look" right but it still writes the images to the mod's textures dir and I want to avoid that.. VanessaE: but maybe I can have it mkdir modpath.."/../something_else/textures" like your idea. Warr1024: Is there a policy on how public the servers on the server list have to be? Like, are servers that use a whitelist or require a password or invite allowed, or do they have to actually allow some level of real access to the general public? sfan5: there is not beanzilla: Sorry to ask a odd question, does anyone know if there's mesecons:redstoneblock in MineClone2? rubenwardy: #mineclone2 is the IRC channel beanzilla: Ah, thank you. basxto: does or did minetest ever work with minecraft assets in any way? (I’m quite sure it didn't) basxto: there is a site which lists minetest as a minecraft remake, which feels wrong entuland: can't elaborate about those judgements entuland: but there is #mineclone2 celeron55: work with? celeron55: what does that even mean Warr1024: It works with MC assets if you convert them into a format that MT uses celeron55: it's never included any, and never has been directly compatible with any, except player skins Warr1024: In fact that can be said for any other game basxto: mineclone2 neither uses minecraft assets directly, opposed to projects like openttd, which rebuild the engine (it also remade the assets later) basxto: but since it's indeed not that defined that well, they supply their own definitions basxto: > A is a game where the executable and sometimes the assets as well are remade open source. Some of these games aren't exact remakes but evolution of original ones, which were eventually open sourced. basxto: > A is a game which is very similar to or heavily inspired by a game or series. basxto: > A game is one which has similar gameplay but is not a clone. basxto: with that definition mcl could be a remake basxto: mintest a clone or similar basxto: though it never felt like there was any focus on minecraft's RPG part Warr1024: Minetest is a remake of an infiniminer remake. celeron55: i think most people who mention infiniminer have never even seen it, minecraft definitely isn't a remake of infiniminer celeron55: rather it's a similar engine celeron55: the reason infiniminer is important is it's pretty much the first commonly known game to use cubic meter voxels in a first person setting celeron55: then notch figured out a similar engine will make an interesting creative environment and can be made pseudo-infinite, and then he put zombies in it celeron55: that basically is what minecraft is to this day celeron55: it's a bit ironic that people sometimes play competitive games similar to infiniminer inside minecraft celeron55: or minetest for that matter Warr1024: I guess my point in mentioning infiniminer is that characterizing MT as "just an MC clone" is about on the level with calling MC an infiniminer clone. celeron55: by the time minecraft had zombies i came along and figured there's room in this genre for pretty much anything i can be bothered to program and i can make reddit mad by doing it Warr1024: MT is also similar to infiniminer in that a lot of how it's actually played is rather different from how it was designed to be played :-) celeron55: back then reddit was where all the cool kids were celeron55: nowadays it's discord or something Warr1024: Haha, well, it's where all the kids are, at least. :-D erlehmann: by the time minecraft had zombies i came along and figured there's room in this genre for pretty much anything i can be bothered to program and i can make reddit mad by doing it erlehmann: LOL erlehmann: celeron55 are we the baddies? :D basxto: now that I looked more at how minecraft does things duo to mcl, I realize that minetest players (2D in a 3D world) were closer to what infiniminer did :D erlehmann: le reddit rageface erlehmann: basxto i think fleckenstein is your go-to source for "everything that minecraft can do" btw GreenXenith: I played Infiminer for a bit, vaguely reminiscent of old versions of CTF erlehmann: he pretty much says his mineclone2 goal was to religiously clone minecraft, including bugs, even if the minetest engine has to bend backward basxto: oh damn, I just release that my quotes lacked the most important words xD basxto: *realize Warr1024: Okay, I had never even actually seen infiniminer before, just took people's word for its similarities Warr1024: but now that I see some gameplay footage from it, it's way more similar than I expected erlehmann: mineclone2 neither uses minecraft assets directly, opposed to projects like openttd, which rebuild the engine (it also remade the assets later) erlehmann: basxto pretty sure you can use minecraft assets though erlehmann: clamity does i think? Warr1024: You could use MC assets in any MT game, but (1) you'd probably have to convert them to the right formats, and (2) they can't be distributed bundled. basxto: I actually thought about trying to create a converter for the free raspberrypi version of minecraft Warr1024: MT games can only use assets they have permission to, or else they can't redistribute a version that's directly playable without importing assets, so they pretty much all ship with their own. Warr1024: Minecraft is interesting but if I wanted to play Minecraft then I'd just play my copy of Minecraft. I imagine a lot has changed in the like 7 years since I last touched it. basxto: but the textures might not fit, I don't think the models are exactly the same (I honestly don't want them to be) basxto: warr1024: infiniminer videos always feel like watching a FPS match in a voxel miner world basxto: +for me Warr1024: I'd love to see a faithful remake in MT :-) basxto: and in general you can use comercial assets by either converting them or supporting their file formats directly … the latter is probably more done my foss remake engines Warr1024: I don't really go much for adaptations/clones of popular titles like MineClone2, but ones of more osbcure games like infiniminer, or ones that are kind of stretching the original vision of the engine like Box World 3D, I like. erlehmann: basxto, in the tools directiory of mineclone2/mineclonia there is a texture converter celeron55: an infiniminer remake in minetest would be cool erlehmann: This is a Python script which converts a resource pack for Minecraft to erlehmann: a texture pack for Minetest so it can be used with MineClone 2. erlehmann: Coverage is close to 100%, but it's not quite there yet. celeron55: of course as has been said CTF is a bit similar but it's not the same basxto: mineclone2 is what I played most since I switched back from voxelands, but I pretty much just want a well documented game with builtin and well integrated mobs, farming, automatization and lots of generated stuff to explore Warr1024: Infiniminer looks like a .NET thing so honestly I'm not sure whether I'd actually be able to run it as it is. The MT engine seems like it'd be a great fit for it, tho. basxto: I miss vombies and mesecon a bit tbh basxto: :D rubenwardy: I don't really play or enjoy FPS games, and I think CTF makes that evident erlehmann: vombies? basxto: dunno if they are still a thing rubenwardy: well, the base design that is - now that I no longer dev it, presumably it's gotten better \o/ Warr1024: ruben: if you like to develop games but not play the games you develop, then the MT scene is right for you :-D basxto: was probably one of the first mob mods Warr1024: I have noticed that the things I enjoy the most are the things I CAN'T create for myself. basxto: I don't remember if they were supposed to be zombies or vampires, they were at least badly drawn and nobody could tell Warr1024: It is, after all, hard to find surprises in a thing you made yourself. Warr1024: Games with a ton of emergent mechanics are a bit of an exception to that, at least, though. basxto: your procgen just isn't good enough :D Warr1024: I don't find procgen that exciting though. Warr1024: Like what surprises me isn't so much fancy mapgen stuff, as it is when a player discovers some new mechanic or trick I wouldn't have thought of. basxto: vombies are from Animals Modpack https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=629 basxto: even supports minetest 0.4.13 basxto: warr1024: and yes, infiniminer is c# and it was dropped because it's sourcecode was decompiled, it's not really a finished game basxto: it's fully open sourced, but all textures are in .psd format D: celeron55: it's a weird choice to drop a game because its source code was decompiled with debug symbols celeron55: you don't really lose anything in that if you keep developing it further, soon enough it'll deviate a lot from what was decompiled Warr1024: I mean maybe there were some deeply embarrassing variable names or something celeron55: i don't think so Warr1024: I guess I can't comment because I don't really understand decompilation anyway. Like, that sort of implies that they were distributing binaries only and not source, and that alone boggles. celeron55: well of course it was binary only like most games celeron55: some people see leaking source code like someone seeing you pants down celeron55: altough i guess that's not as bad either as some people think Warr1024: We're open-source folks, we don't wear pants. celeron55: the pants down thing i mean Warr1024: Can't be caught with your pants around your ankles if you make sure to stay well away from pants in general. basxto: > Hackers modified the code to make mods, but also started making clients that would target vulnerabilities in the game as well as build incompatible game forks that fragmented its user base. Barth, who was making the game for free, then lost interest and dropped the project, as development of the game had become too difficult. basxto: that's what wikipedia says Warr1024: MT's got its fair share of hack clients and forks and such, but I don't think those things have really affected it so much though. Benrob0329: A swift swing of the ban hammer is usually enough with casual cheaters Warr1024: Like, interest waxes and wanes and there is some turnover in active contributors, but I think that's mostly just natural cycles stuff? Warr1024: I don't usually bother punishing cheaters on my server. We mostly just laugh at them until they go away. Benrob0329: Also, exposing vulnerabilities that were going to be uncovered anyways seems like it just does some of the work for you in finding them Benrob0329: Fragmenting the userbase sounds like a greater issue, but then if they're willing to bail so quickly how good of a job were you really doing... Warr1024: Yeah, I mean, if you ask me how many people play my game, I'd have to ask what level of engagement is the proper standard. basxto: well, he made other games after it basxto: or that studio basxto: spacechem, shenzhen I/O, opus magnum, nfinifactory (infiniminer+spacechem, somewhat) basxto: mhm … exile is more frustrating than fun Warr1024: It seems like there's a whole "infini-" ecosystem, like maybe they reused enginy parts of the games for other things using similar tech but different play styles. Warr1024: I thought the "hardcore survival" aspects of Exile were too literal for my tastes. Warr1024: In practice I spent a lot of my play time in that game laying in bed trying to conserve hydration so that I could weather a long drought with as little dying and walking back home from spawn as possible. Warr1024: When I decided to make a hardcore survival game I decided not to put dying in it :-D Warr1024: (more accurately I ended up removing death later, but either way it's gone) Jordach: you can't mention a zachtronics game without mentioning TIS-100 Warr1024: If we were to make an infiniminer remake in MT I feel like "finiminer" would be a good name for it, to highlight how everyone seems to complain all the time about the 62km map size limit. basxto: I’m taking damage and don't understand why :D, I hope it gets easier once I understand how to get the basic things basxto: and dunno, I rather program real assembler and run it on my gameboy basxto: people complain about the map size? basxto: so far the map seemed quit big to me Warr1024: you're probably taking damage in Exile because the homeostasis of your body is entirely the player's responsibility. You need to keep fed and hydrated, regulate your body temperature, etc. Warr1024: Apparently there are people who play minetest by getting on a server and just walking, and I suppose assume they should have to walk for hours on end to find a spot to settle basxto: maybe it was temp, thirst wasn't at 0% Warr1024: Hypothermia and heatstroke can both kill you in exile, and a lot of things like rain and furnaces and shelter can impact your exposure to heat/cold. basxto: I drove a bit around by boat to explore a bit of our map basxto: that took hours Warr1024: Personally I tend to limit map size pretty tightly, unless there are enough players that it starts to feel crowded. I don't want to keep eating up disk space to store just plain mapgenned terrain that players haven't even developed, and I keep rotated backups and such too. Warr1024: It's really sad when a server just ghosts and leaves no backups or snapshots or continuity plan and players just loose their work and their community. I require players to CC0-license anything they build on my server so that anyone can pull snapshots anytime, and there's no risk that we'll just lose funding to run it and everyone will lose their year-long projects. basxto: you certainly don't want me as a player basxto: I probably discovered 90% of our map :D basxto: and looted everything I found on my way basxto: but walking for a bit before settling is important, there should be nobody around basxto: I’m already annoyed that others can see my name from afar basxto: they can just run or dig to where I am -.- Warr1024: Looting is not allowed on most of the NodeCore servers out there, but the way nametags are handled in the game is designed to handle a mix of coop and anarchy play. Warr1024: You can't see a player's nametag unless you can see their face up close enough, so they don't show through stuff Warr1024: but you can learn to recognize a player by clothing color, if you spot them at a distance basxto: I’m talking about generated structures Warr1024: ah, yeah, dungeon loot is actually still pretty new in nodecore basxto: mcl has more basxto: there are mineshafts and villages Warr1024: yeah, the original MC went hog-wild with prefab structures and MCL pretty much had to match basxto: tbh it makes exploring more fun basxto: I don't know what I would do if somebody dug into my base basxto: I know all the people on the server, but killing and looting them would be well deserved basxto: is that normal mintest behavior or a nodecore modification that you can see players only if the are clone neough? independent56_: get the areas mod, to protect your base. independent56_: unless it is anarchy independent56_: or unallowed independent56_: i hate data loss. i lost all my documents from pre-2020 because of a mistkaed disk format. but it had all sorts of edgy in it, so i dont really mourn the loss that much. the docuents i keep now are much more numerous and harder to backup. independent56_: i just found out that clapham junction is a thing that exists... wow! independent56_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccG2nKn-zgs basxto: I don't run the server independent56_: night is annoying, and i dont want to disable the cycle. can i make night as bright as daytime, and if so, how? Noisytoot: independent56_: What's the difference between night and day if the brightness is the same? independent56_: the sky. i want to see nighttime, maybe i add a small handicap to the brightness at night, but it will be livable darkness. basxto: fullmoon :D independent56_: XD independent56_: i want to be at that point where you can build, but it is uncomfortable to live without lighting. independent56_: tfw your long cargo train takes 3 track sections Warr1024: "...normal mintest behavior or a nodecore modification..." it's nodecore, but there's also https://gitlab.com/Kimapr/mtg_player_names independent56_: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:fartown independent56_: does my luaatc code look like it needs extra? (ignor the indentation) independent56_: goodnight, will check logs tomorrow. Warr1024: "fartown" sounds like an area protection system based on flatulence. independent56_: i wish to remove a large part of the map, bits wich take up mapserver space, despite being useless. i will use the command "//multi //fixedpos set1 -2000,500,500 //fixedpos set2 -30000,-500,-500 //deleteblocks". can worldedit deal with such large areas without breaking? BuckarooBanzai: i don't think so, it grinds to a halt for me with much lower values :/ independent56_: sad independent56_: what if i did it on a remote server, ran through SSH? what if i left during the command, leaving it to do porcessing on it's own? independent56_: ok... independent56_: it works! it is doing it, when i ran mapserver and locked the database, it was hard at work delteing blocks. but there is too many for too little. so i shutdown the server and decided to live with these ugly appendages independent56_: BuckarooBanzai: do incremental renders have the same time as inital ones? do incrementel renders take up as much time as the inital ones? BuckarooBanzai: independent56_: nope the incremental renderings just render the changed mapblocks, should only be a handful every couple seconds independent56_: ah yes independent56_: i set it to 3 hours in fear of a big render independent56_: and now i can run them both together now the inital render completed (after 3 days) independent56_: but now it says "021-06-24 13:19:38: ERROR[CurlFetch]: http://127.0.0.1:8080/api/minetest not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 403)" even though the keys match. independent56_: BuckarooBanzai please help me regarding my last IRC message. this bug is preventing me from achiving junction map superheaven. independent56_: is there any debug option to see mapblock borders? i want to recover a deleted mountain, but am unsure if it will hurt a small dam. independent56_: BuckarooBanzai, i get this error "2021-06-24 15:40:18: ERROR[CurlFetch]: http://127.0.0.1:8080/api/minetest not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 403)". i am unable to get live statistics for my map, because of this api error. independent56_: and the map is running. entuland: you should be able to work out the boundaries from the coordinates entuland: I also think I read somewhere that they added the ability to see such boundaries in one of the latest dev versions? not sure independent56_: seriously, fuck rubberbanding. it is annoying and gives the illusion of not going anywherer Warr1024: There is a feature in 5.5-dev to display mapblock boundaries Warr1024: there's a new keybind to toggle it; it doesn't seem to have a default binding, but set it to whatever GreenXenith: I dont have a "whatever" key /s Jonathon: You actually mean screw anticheat that rubberbands you Warr1024: Green: it should be between Panic and Any GreenXenith: I actually used to have a panic key GreenXenith: I replaced my escape key with a red key with "PANIC" printed on it independent56_: config error caused mapserver broke. it should be in the working directory. it wasn't. independent56_: yes! yay! the API is working! whoo! erlehmann: independent56_ disable anticheat or use proper physics factors independent56_: hmm independent56_: what minetest conf is that? independent56_: how do i edit sunset/rise times? i have this mod which syncs to real time, but it is bright day out here and twilight inside Krock: use the day/night ratio Warr1024: I think the in-game sun's position based on in-game time of day is hard-coded and not changeable. If you want all solar observations in-game to match real-world, then you'd probably have to use a non-linear function to map realtime to gametime. Warr1024: Day/night ratio ... does that move the sun too? I've never actually used it without a custom skybox... independent56_: hmm thx celeron55: 17:37:21 < independent56_> is there any debug option to see mapblock borders? i want to recover a deleted mountain, but am unsure if it will hurt a small dam. celeron55: you probably didn't find this given it's not documented anywhere except the source code celeron55: the setting is called keymap_toggle_block_bounds celeron55: add it like any other keymap_ setting in minetest.conf sofar: maybe one day we can make the sun position dependent on the player position North/South relative to 0 celeron55: (for example keymap_toggle_block_bounds = KEY_KEY_O) independent56_: i would like to change it in-game, like "v" for map, as a keybind. so i can see the mapblocks for a few seconds then disable them. Warr1024: re: sun position, it would be nicer to have it controllable by mod via set_sky ... and even nicer if the shadow shader could then be aware of sun position instead of just assuming it based on time of day celeron55: independent56_: yes that'll set it to "o" independent56_: great :-> Warr1024: I had to do some mildly ugly stuff to disable the shadow shader server-side for a game that has no sun/moon. celeron55: but you do need to have a development build celeron55: it was added after 5.5.0 Warr1024: in 5.5 you can just set it in the keybind menu wwar: Hmm.. shadow shader thing has no on/off option? independent56_: aye, i need a dev build, but i'm too lazy to install it. Warr1024: wwar: only on the client side, not on the server wwar: I see celeron55: oh wait, it is in the menu celeron55: well that's easy then wwar: Anyway, i will have maximum 5 fps with shadows.. celeron55: of course it has, on the first settings page Warr1024: wwar: if your performance sucks with shadows enabled then you'd be likely to turn them off anyway. But for someone whose performance with shadows on is fine, they'd probably just leave it on ... but playing on a server with no sun but still having shadows from the sun would look silly. Warr1024: Thus it's nice to be able to at least work around them, even if we can't remotely switch them off. wwar: Silly and even if you have good performance, it will cause fps drop, so you lose fps to make the game look silly Warr1024: Telling a player "go log off and change these settings and then come back so things don't look silly or not work right" is not a good experience and I've been trying to find ways to fix those as I encounter them. wwar: Also yeah, my performance suck Warr1024: I've been able to leave shadows set to Very Low and not notice any performance impacts at least. wwar: Well, evey mt setting require people to relog to change, dont they? celeron55: hecks wanted to make the server be able to switch off shadows but he hasn't made a PR yet wwar: Every* Warr1024: Not every setting, but easily arguably too many. wwar: I believe reloging to change shadow isnt too hard if thats what you mean with > Telling a player "go log off and change these settings and then come back so things don't look silly or not work right.. Warr1024: I'd really love to be able to switch texture-packs in-game, even if it means I have to go through an "initializing nodes" progress screen again and destroy and recreate the 3D scene ... at least, so that I can stay connected and still receive chat messages when the display comes back... Warr1024: Relogging to change a thing isn't hard, it's just lousy UX independent56_: i can't wait until 5.6 is released. obvious reasons (my number) independent56_: oh and also, it will have all the features of 5, but with some mystery ones from 6. wwar: Warr, cant you disable shadows in default of nodecore? wwar: Independet56, what if mt 5.6 turns out a bad version? :þ sfan5: he can't, it's a client side feature Warr1024: I have no say in what shaders are run. I can only use some tricks in some cases to make them not have an effect on the visuals. Warr1024: At least the parallax and generate normals stuff is gone :-) wwar: Hmm.. i think it will be pretty helpful if server owners can manage client side stuff for their players in their servers independent56_: if it turned out fowl, i would cry. my dreams would be spoilt. Warr1024: Server owners and/or game creators should really have a lot of control over at least the default way the games are experienced. Player override of most in-game stuff should only be for things like accessibility needs (which arguably game-creators should be responsible for too). A problem in MT is the way these things are put either solely in the player's control or designed in such a way that it's too easy for players to accidentally MTDiscord: set overrides without experiencing the game as designed first. hecks: Toggling shadows without relogging is being worked on and will be included in 5.6, together with server side control. wwar: I agree with that ^ hecks: I'm writing the shader variant feature as we speak (a little complicated but necessary; we need to compile shaders both with shadows off and on, and swap the shader program out) Warr1024: PR #9315 is an example of the kind of gameplay thing that pretty obviously should start in game-creator control and be controlled by players only as an override. That one is setting at like 1.5 approvals though... hecks: and the other hard part is that MT currently assumes shaders on nodes and objects don't change ever ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9315 -- Require 'basic_debug' priv to view gameplay-relevant debug info (2nd try), require 'debug' priv to view wireframe by Wuzzy2 wwar: That will also help in stoping cheaty csms i think wwar: That the server/game owners will be able to manage client side stuff even if not full access hecks: I just obfuscate any strings sent to the client, like definitions or meta. Warr1024: I don't mind it being possible to cheat, I just want to see it require actual effort. wwar: Well, but decreasing cheats in that way (if it does) will be helpful to every server or game with the rule "no cheating/hacking" Warr1024: sfan5, IIRC you were there for the last discussion of 9315 (that I'm aware of at least), did you want to weigh in on it? wwar: Personally, i dont think that basic_debug thing should be something in default.. maybe a mode that adds that? I mean if a server owners wants debug info to be hidden from people thats something they must add a mode for.. wwar: Owner* celeron55: i believe 9315 is ready to merge celeron55: need to check the code still maybe Warr1024: I checked it over and insofar as I am qualified to judge, everything looked good to me: code, testing, etc. celeron55: the code looks good to me Warr1024: I just didn't want to be the one in the hot seat to put my name on the merge; I was hoping for something a little less hotly-debated as a first action as core dev... hecks: this is why we need the developer covenant or whatever hecks: or rather modder hecks: we need to define what is an acceptable burden on modders to upgrade the engine version hecks: (do not confuse with the awful linux CoC) hecks: basically we should promise the modders we won't break anything without an opt-out and said opt-out should take like a minute to patch in hecks: in this case the workaround is to just grant people the new priv on register, seems reasonable MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Require 'basic_debug' priv to view gameplay-relevant debug info, requ… 1363fc728 https://git.io/JnFRN (152021-06-24T18:21:19Z) celeron55: i wonder what was the last time i actually merged anything celeron55: usually someone jumps to do it once i mention something is mergeable celeron55: . celeron55: -. Warr1024: I wouldn't mind publishing like a mod or something to help server operators more easily and automatically handle the opt-out of this thing, too. Like something that just grants basic_debug priv to everyone when they join or something, for server operators who don't feel technically-inclined enough to do it themselves. Warr1024: I don't know how big of a problem I should expect it to be, I guess? This could also be handled in MTG, and I would think that if MTG considers this a "regression" that would be sufficient to cut through the permafreeze. wwar: they can just add basic_debug priv in basic_privs wwar: Will still gonna grant every player who already registered to the game Warr1024: you mean default_privs Warr1024: basic_privs are the ones that sub-admin moderators can control Warr1024: and the granting to existing players upon join was what I was thinking of the mod for. wwar: Oops default privs yes wwar: Also dont default privs and basic privs change with the same cmd Warr1024: they're separate settings but they're used for different things, and there's no reason why they would be in sync necessarily Warr1024: though arguably it might make sense that default_privs be a subset of basic_privs so your moderators have the ability to strip a new player of ALL privs... specing: I was pleased to learn that WorldEdit is AGPLv3 ghoti: Heya. When programming a basic_robot, is there a way to stop processing for the current cycle without doing a self.remove() ? I'm looking for the sort of thing you get by issuing a "return" in the middle of a function in other languages. ghoti: i.e. forget about any look or `if` we happen to be in, just bail. ghoti: s/look/loop/ independent56: http://192.168.1.119:8080/#!/map/0/9/229/-433 independent56: why wont anything south of spawn exist? independent56: https://imgur.com/a/Gz67bD9 independent56: here is a screenshot. use that link. not the interactive. it will probably break. independent56: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/865e6ea1 independent56: this happens when i try to run with mapserver enabled independent56: i'll try without..? independent56: yeah, mapserver is disabled independent56: enabled now... and... independent56: now it waits, without continuing at "created bridge.. mapserver ok" independent56: done independent56: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/17f11770 independent56: and it still crashes and burns independent56: ha, turns out inital rendering was locking the database! independent56: how do i emplace limits on how far the map render travels in each direction? there is noting noth of 100, and a huge settlement south at 5000. i would like to include only the areas wich matter. independent56: using mapserver independent56: BuckarooBanzai, i am unable to run the mapserver and mtserver at the same time. the mapserver locks the database, whilst the mtserver crashes because of this lock. do i have to go trough the pain of inital rendering before i can run both? independent56: yay, it has rendered the analite mountains! independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=human_areas:analite_mountains_map.png independent56: i am very happy independent56: "| is now known as /" "/ is now known as -" "- is no known as \" independent56: i know how this works |: yeah I'm just rotatin' independent56: XD independent56: ok... now the server is connected with ethernet to the router. there should be much higher speeds MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rework Settings to support arbitrary hierarchies (#11352) 13c60a146 https://git.io/JnHcw (152021-06-23T13:22:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Perform some quality assurance for translation strings (#11375) 1351bf4a6 https://git.io/JnQvV (152021-06-23T16:35:50Z) Wuzzy: name me one random thing in Minetest that is hardcoded but really shouldn't be rubenwardy: poor performance ghoti: :-D independent56: hmm... probably all the formspec co-ords in mods, where cross-platform on tiny devices can cause eye cancer independent56: it should be relative independent56: but i'm no nerd in mt mod develepoment. GreenXenith: GUIs in general, including game menus, world handling, player physics, camera control, keybind handling, mesh manipulation (or lack thereof) Krock: name me one random thing in MInetest that really should be hardcoded but isn't Krock: mod security. should be forced to `true` Benrob0329: Playing a Rickroll at a random interval between 5 minutes and 1 century. Krock: ah yes Benrob0329: also no, disabling mod security is sometimes useful when testing things (like when running a profiler inside of other code that requires access to debug) Benrob0329: If you're running code you're familiar with then it's fine, it's mostly there to stop attacks from downloaded code sfan5: Wuzzy: camera Wuzzy: good one! sfan5: at the very least the server should be able to disable first or third person sfan5: and it should be able to lock the camera at a certain angle or distance sfan5: for RTS games GreenXenith: also camera roll Benrob0329: Mapgen types? imo games should be defining mapgens, the engine should just give enough pieces to do it performantly GreenXenith: Games can already define C mapgens, its just not quite as performant because of the Lua interface GreenXenith: also requires some extra work for cross-platform Benrob0329: I'm not talking Lua vs C++, just enough API bits (and probably a separate context) for lua mapgens to run well (they can already do pretty well if written smartly) GreenXenith: I was only mentioning C mapgens because it is performant Benrob0329: dangit discord, I wanted to send that s/context/thread or instance message Benrob0329: I feel like interfacing with glue code would be a bigger bottleneck than just writing it in Lua right now Benrob0329: LVMs aren't exactly slow Wuzzy: https://dev.minetest.net/List_of_hardcoded_features independent56: oh and also, biggest stress is the advtrains speed is hardcoded. i want 50 n/s trains, zooming across my fair landscape. 20 n/s trains in a world where you walk 10 n/s is too little. (yes, i set my speed high, because we all ave places to go) Warr1024: heh, 50n/s is relativistic speeds in MT terms Warr1024: you're pushing the limits of mapblock loading speed independent56: XD my fast fly is 100 n/s. independent56: and mapblock loading on local is quick, even on fast. it's on network that gets annoying. Warr1024: You're running the risk of "the server's background cleanup job kicked off and now suddenly your train collides with a wall of ignores" independent56: XD Warr1024: you can already do this in most games because falling speed is not capped independent56: advtrains works in unloaded areas. but still, fair point. Warr1024: (most MT games) Warr1024: well, even if the trains work fine in unloaded areas, that landscape has gotta look weird when you look out the window and see nothing Warr1024: ...and the fact that the advtrains devs had to go to such lengths to work around the problem also speaks a lot itself. independent56: hmm... but i do wish. maybe a compromise at 30 n/s? Benrob0329: forceloading tracks also works, but will take up more and more memory Benrob0329: you could also emerge the areas ahead of the train and slow it's acceleration until they are loaded Warr1024: Sadly there is no "safe speed." What speed is considered "relativistic" just depends on the server's "weather" Warr1024: tbh advtrains' workaround sounds like one of the least bad ones possible Warr1024: One other alternative being allowing the train to hit the wall of ignores and stop, but keeping track of its speed so it can resume moving as soon as the terrain loads. independent56: imagine LF, with tracks everywhere. they cant do that. otherwise the entire network would break down. so they have to use their own unloaded map train runner (UMTR (OOMTUURR)) Pexin: bump for nonhardcoded camera: also player controls. thinking zelda-like camera/movement Warr1024: I'd like to see more of the player's movement behavior less hard-coded, or at least more thoroughly parameterized so it can be more easily controlled by mods. Things like air resistance, variable buoyancy, etc. Warr1024: Heh, being able to push a "display gamma adjust" from the server-side at play time, so you can simulate eyes adjusting to darkness, would be nice, but I may try to research that one on my own before I make an issue of it, to make sure it's even reasonably feasible. erlehmann: Wuzzy sfan5 you can get freecam from dragonfire or waspsaliva i think erlehmann: i was also missing it! erlehmann: i bet fleckenstein could work some API out erlehmann: that guy LOVES APIs erlehmann: like a floating camera API sfan5: "freecam" sounds like less restrictions not more erlehmann: sfan5 well what if you slapped some restrictions on it so the server could tell the client the freecam settings erlehmann: currently they are controlled by the client ofc Warr1024: The amount of freedom a player should have over the camera is a thing that can only really be determined in the context of a game. Being able to move a camera about freely could have gameplay effects and a game creator needs to be able to define what the limits are so that they can design gameplay to work with what a player can actually do... erlehmann: what i am suggesting is to take the freecam code and make it so only the server can set it, like FOV erlehmann: then you could have stuff like the cam rotating around a character erlehmann: controlled by a mod Pexin: note: narrow fov contributes to severe motion sickness in some people. twiddles thumbs verbally. Pexin: to use mt, I personally need to up it to ..what was it, 110 I think * Pexin: checks, 100 Warr1024: It's very easy for games as it is to make decisions that cause all kinds of accessibility problems, and it's the game creators' responsibility to take these considerations into account, and if they won't or can't then they probably deserve to lose access to certain audiences. Warr1024: There are limits to what the engine can do to prevent game creators from shooting themselves in the foot by shooting their audiences in the foot... Warr1024: btw, high FOV would look much nicer for more folks if we had a barrel distortion shader :-) erlehmann: i use a custom hack client with halfbright because i can not see contrast as well erlehmann: the only side effect is i forget to place torches erlehmann: i should probably tune the halfbright so that 0 is still dark and 1 is like 7 or so Warr1024: you mean the gamma adjust isn't sufficient for you? erlehmann: gamma adjust is something *entirely* different erlehmann: i only want to affect blocks in game erlehmann: nodes i mean Warr1024: I think if you tune gamma all the way up to 3 then basically everything that's not pure black becomes full bright... Warr1024: ah, interesting... wwar: There is light curve boost, low/high gradient settings wwar: If you set these all to max lighting will look silly but you will see every light source independent56_: testing znc independent56: yay! Jordach: >sees wuzzy's PR leaving hell Jordach: wuzzy is a free elf VanessaE: which hell is that? :P Jordach: paramat's PR hell Warr1024: The feature is nice ... sadly, it will be disabled in NC as well, if I get the option, because I already have an in-gameplay alternative :-) independent56: https://raildar.co.uk/map/ i think the advtrains would like this. i want to build something like this for my world, but then that's effort. independent56: s/the advtrains/the advtrains people/ independent56: it's a map of how the british rail network connects together. with signals, switches, and stations all there. independent56: and live trains BuckarooBanzai: independent56: https://i.imgur.com/xgtA9hH.png independent56: oh god yeah... mapserver... i was about to install it... but then i had to do the dishwasher independent56: https://imgur.com/a/WajNtlO independent56: i have the docs right there independent56: should i get the go or java version? independent56: BuckarooBanzai BuckarooBanzai: java version isn't maintained anymore BuckarooBanzai: go is the way to go ;) independent56: XD haha, will do! independent56: what about the tile server? what does that do? sfan5: serve tiles BuckarooBanzai: tileserver _is_ the java version :P independent56: ah, thanks independent56: so... i have to compile the 32 bit linux version myself? BuckarooBanzai: heh, i just removed the plain x86 versions yesterday :D BuckarooBanzai: i think there should an older 32bit download BuckarooBanzai: *should be independent56: from an earlier version? if so, i might as well compile myself. BuckarooBanzai: v4.2 is not that old, still has most of the features independent56: yay! BuckarooBanzai: why do you still have a 32bit system? Whats your hardware? independent56: wait... so x86 is the same as i867? or x32? independent56: and i still have 32 bit because of "old webbook from 2009" independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=server BuckarooBanzai: x86_64 == 64bit / x86 == 32bit (in that case) independent56: there is the specs independent56: haha i am so stupid independent56: i never knew installation was that easy independent56: anyways, next question - is it automatically public? let me try! BuckarooBanzai: depends on your setup, you might have to forward the http port independent56: yay, terminal is now running BuckarooBanzai: this question may be too late, but still: you do have backups in case something goes wrong? independent56: omg yay! independent56: and yes, i copied the world from multiplyaer-5 to multiplayer-6, and am running the server on multiplayer-6 independent56: https://imgur.com/a/QvnGtcR independent56: one slight problem * BuckarooBanzai: looks at the browser and hides independent56: "INFO[0001] Starting initial rendering job " was the last thing my terminal said. it is now waiting around. independent56: probably that BuckarooBanzai: it might take a while, depending on your setup (database-type, size, etc) BuckarooBanzai: some background infos on how it works: https://github.com/minetest-mapserver/mapserver/blob/master/doc/incrementalrendering.md independent56: hmm independent56: well, i will just sit and wait BuckarooBanzai: also watch your disk size, the change in the database might consume a lot of additional space (added mtime column) BuckarooBanzai: *temporarily independent56: oh no,... i need to check independent56: ran upstairs, 11 GB free. deleting old backups independent56: https://pastebin.com/a3hFbD5L independent56: here... it has been taking ages independent56: 4% inital rendering. independent56: taking the fact it took ~4 minutes to advance by %1, then i have 40 minutes. i am at %8. independent56: 25% MrB_: hey guys im looking for a way to use custom game and mod paths fo minetest from the command line. Like the worldname command but for the mod path lol independent56: try editing world.mt. it wont help witht he paths, but will give you custom mods. sfan5: you can put mods into /worldmods/ MrB_: im hoping to be able to just set a mod path for inclusion like for example --modpath=~/mods independent56: make an issue request on the github MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Document hypertext escaping (#11374) 13b5c09ad https://git.io/JnDv1 (152021-06-22T12:42:40Z) MrB_: good idea independant56 MrB_: ty sfan5 :) Calinou: I created a new mod and enabled it, but its init.lua file isn't running and I have no idea why Calinou: https://0x0.st/-96b.zip Calinou: starting singleplayer from a terminal, I'm not seeing any prints from the mod Calinou: the mod has a mod.conf file, I also tried adding an empty depends.txt file but that shouldn't be necessary (the `gauges` mod doesn't have any) sfan5: --verbose will log mods as they are run rubenwardy: looks fine to me - sure you're enabled it? rubenwardy: try opening the config again rubenwardy: it might have disabled itself, this happens when it's installed multiple times independent56: update: 38% on rendering. it has taken 3 hours independent56: ok... BuckarooBanzai, if i tried to run the render on my computer instead of the server, will i experience any migration problems? i will just transfer the world. Calinou: I checked the Select Mods menu and the mod name is green. I tried disabling it and enabling it again, still does nothing Calinou: --verbose makes it almost impossible to read the log, but I went through it and didn't see references to any mods Calinou: (I have other mods loaded like moreblocks) Calinou: I'm on 5.5.0-dev with latest minetest_game celeron55: i did that and it runs celeron55: altough, it doesn't seem to work as intended celeron55: it just prints the "Loaded." message and then nothing celeron55: something like "if player:get_wielded_item():get_count() == 0 then" works celeron55: well of course, the wielded item is the "" item when it's nothing, that's the "hand" Calinou: ah, right Calinou: I created a new world and enabled the mod, still no dice Calinou: wait, I can see the message Calinou: it's above the minetest ASCII art, so I didn't notice it ._. celeron55: mods start quite early in the server process celeron55: they start before much of the server initialization so that they can register all the stuff before anything happens Calinou: anyway, thanks, I can work on the autosprint mod now :) celeron55: it might make sense to move the ascii art upwards though celeron55: you can't be the only one not noticing mod messages because of it drummyfish: hey guys rubenwardy: loool drummyfish: I am a noob and need an advice: when I join a server, the chat is a huge mess, I hear players from the whole server. Do I need to install some chat mods? Benrob0329: [off] log test Benrob0329: Nope, that doesn't work at all independent56: that's because you ave that thing in front independent56: and anywyas, you were heard by my good friend logger56. Benrob0329: I hope you don't post those logs anywhere, that'd probably be in violation of channel policy if it doesn't mind [off] independent56: 0_0 ok. independent56: is it ok if it is hidden from public eyes in the deep web (unlisted), or if that's not ok, can it be hosted online, on a password-protected place, like google drive? independent56: and i mean, scenario 2 applies if you know my ssh password, username, and i have enabled ssh port forwarding (like if i went outside for a long period of time) celeron55: personal logs are always fine, but you can't publish them celeron55: equivalent to logging being enabled on your client and the logs being stored only on your disk Jordach: i use thelounge client for a similar purpose Jordach: it works on all my damn devices and i only need to use VPN to gain access behind my firewall Warr1024: TheLounge is also what I use for IRC, though I don't lurk in most channels because I'm already there on Discord bridges and Matrix... Warr1024: Pretty basic as far a scripting, automation, or configurability goes, but the multi-device and mobile experiences are quite good. independent56: 1.6 K mb of map.sqlite independent56: my server is seriously out of hand Krock: Kelvin milli bits ? erlehmann: hey does minetest have sound packs? rubenwardy: You can install a single sound pack by placing it at sounds/ celeron55: it hasn't really developed into something people do so support isn't very elaborate celeron55: not many have sound effects as a hobby rubenwardy: Yeah rubenwardy: It would be worth changing texture packs into media packs rubenwardy: There's probably an issue for that™ celeron55: i'd first like to see a sound pack worth installing celeron55: if there are none, then the one place is already one more than is needed rubenwardy: Oh sure rubenwardy: This is similar to my thoughts on a shader API MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Server: Ignore whitespace-only chat messages 13a8b7c8f https://git.io/JnyTi (152021-06-22T17:47:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04juozaspo -> 03minetest/minetest: Buildbot: Use posix on Win64 builds if available (#11355) 13cec0dfc https://git.io/JnykU (152021-06-22T17:59:09Z) dlKerxYgIPnw: join fr3Enod3 5IDe, wE haVE CO0K13s&frE3 bn( independent56: yay gone! independent56: "join libera side, we have cookies and bins" independent56: yay, i did it on my main and mapserver runs... just not in the slow lowlands. independent56: eh, it's not finished independent56: oh god.... none of the slow lowlands appears independent56: well... i guess i need to check if the slow lowlands exists on the server. rubenwardy: Cookies and white supremacists independent56: please confirm that you have shunned thiojoe before continuing independent56: wait what independent56: https://imgur.com/a/jfUA5O0 independent56: anyways, i need mapserver...but what do i boot first? independent56: the mtserver or the mapserver? independent56: well, crap, mapserver broke. i can't access in browser. independent56: just found out -debug exists, hope it will work. independent56: ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR is what i'm getting in the browser Hawk777: Are you connecting to the mapserver via HTTPS when you should be connecting with HTTP, possibly? (totally random guess, I have no idea how it is supposed to work) independent56: oh god! independent56: tfw you get one character incorrect euphoria: Hello there VanessaE: anyone here good with advtrains? specing: with code or use? VanessaE: use VanessaE: a few of us on my Traintable server were playing around, and started a descending tunnel, starting at +2.5m and going down at a rate of 1 in 3 meters, the longest slopes advtrains has. but if you place a wagon on the tracks at the top of the slope and accelerate forward, it stops at the slope, it won't descend. VanessaE: https://imgur.com/wL5G3Q4.png VanessaE: the displays inside the wagon, if I read it right, indicate that it thinks the track ends at the slope specing: Maybe ask on LINUXFORKS? VanessaE: oh, and if I place the wagon ON the slope, it sees there's another 65m of track, and it'll go down just fine. VanessaE: linuxforks? not familiar with that VanessaE: I guess you mean https://bugs.linux-forks.de/advtrains/ VanessaE: I was just gonna ask on the forum thread specing: yeah the train autism server IhrFussel: I'd like to ask in here also: Why is someone in the forum allowed to create a thread with very bold claims that could be super damaging to a particular MT server WITHOUT having even a tiny bit of evidence?? IhrFussel: So far all they do is trying to sell their own point of view as facts and I as the server owner have to watch how that happens....this doesn't feel right celeron55: so from now on every thread has to go through you before it can be posted? celeron55: come on, link the thread and explain \: no that would be too logical \: we have to fight vague claims with more vague claims IhrFussel: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26895 celeron55: that the \: lol that thread is quite a read IhrFussel: I told you the subject is damaging celeron55: this makes no sense to me, i'm moving it to trash celeron55: if another moderator finds it worth being public them move it back celeron55: i think if someone wants to create a thread like that, it absolutely has to have evidence in the first post celeron55: that already could have been worth defamation charges towards the OP celeron55: frankly IhrFussel: Thanks and I agree....I'm absolutely not trying to protect any criminals on my server...but I will only act after I see actual evidence for such claims. And insulting me ingame and in the forum to be a pedo protector just because I don't ban someone who may or may not be a child lover will of course result in temp bans celeron55: not worth it if they weren't in the same country as yourself or they are a kid though celeron55: well i have no reason to believe you, but i have even less reason to believe that forum thread, lol celeron55: it's the internet after all IhrFussel: L-Dog is no kid btw, he's an adult...this could explain why he tries to be so overprotective IhrFussel: But what shocked me the most is that other completely unrelated people came into that thread somehow just believing him and even posting police report sites...that's a bit much celeron55: my estimate is 50% of people are idiots celeron55: i also believe the police know that so i wouldn't worry too much about those reports IhrFussel: He also posted directly in the thread of my server as well by the way...not sure if I should report those posts too celeron55: well i searched "child" and "girl" from his posts and no other thread popped up IhrFussel: Nah I think what he posted in the server thread so far isn't as critical as the contents in that other thread...should he decide to repeat the same stuff in my server thread though then I will report the posts IhrFussel: Unless his posts include some evidence finally erlehmann: my estimate is 50% of people are idiots erlehmann: low-balling it here right? :D erlehmann: i also believe the police know that so i wouldn't worry too much about those reports erlehmann: i haven't read the thread (and don't intend to), but for anything involving police, my first advice is: get a lawyer erlehmann: also don't talk to the police beyond identification and asking for access to your lawyer erlehmann: IhrFussel also it is a good idea to have offsite backups (i.e. where you can't easily get to and others won't find it) in case some fun-hater wants to take the server down or harass you. independent56: hello! i will be more active over these 10 days, because someone i sat next to in school tested positive, and i have to "self-isolate". what fun! independent56: /join #cachet independent56: fuck rubenwardy: no swearsies, this is a christian minecraft server independent56: XD Warr1024: "This server is christian, but none of the players or admins are. We're honestly not sure how it ended up that way." wwar: "... or how its supposed to end." entuland: does the content DB automatically pull new releases from GitHub? gpcf: yes, if you've set it up to use tags entuland: you mean if I set my entry in the content DB to use tags? I am logged in and I can't see any setting for that entuland: ah wait, I was looking in the wrong place entuland: uhm... I have the VCS Repository URL set up, seems like at least one release got pulled automatically, I'll give it some time and see if it will pull today's one automatically rubenwardy: entuland: https://content.minetest.net/help/update_config/ rubenwardy: You can set ContentDB to make a release for every commit or every tag rubenwardy: there's also an API or webhooks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix some typos in builtin (#11370) 13b28523b https://git.io/JnPXb (152021-06-21T16:30:29Z) entuland: aye, wasn't set up properly entuland: probably I only updated the content DB manually and I forgot about it GNUHacker: servers admins have a serious problem, the modified clients specing: ohno specing: GNUHacker: Why is that a problem? rubenwardy: cheat clients, I'd guess specing: GNUHacker: what kind of cheats are a problem? specing: Minetest (other than rubenwardy's CTF server) isn't really a competitive game in the traditional sense rubenwardy: there are quite a few PvP servers though Pexin: many people treat mt as a 'platform' to customize a game experience per-server Pexin: also there are multiple types of competition, not necessarily combat Warr1024: I've had a couple of cheat clients connect to my server but mostly they just got frustrated and left when they discovered that nobody was impressed. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update builtin locale (#11371) 137fdbf3f https://git.io/JnPAj (152021-06-21T17:55:55Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04neoh4x0r -> 03minetest/minetest: Strip carriage returns from lines in settingtypes.txt (#11338) 139d2e7fc https://git.io/JnPxv (152021-06-21T17:55:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04bensuperpc -> 03minetest/minetest: Update Dockerfile and improve build speed (#11313) 134b9a51f https://git.io/JnPxf (152021-06-21T17:55:38Z) GNUHacker: specing: cheat clients :/ specing: Pexin: and so the only people cheated out of that experience are the cheaters themselves? specing: GNUHacker: be more specific, please Pexin: having said that, I hate hate #9315 or at the least use a more lenient priv than debug.. -_- ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9315 -- Require debug priv to view gameplay-relevant debug info (2nd try), add wireframe priv by Wuzzy2 rubenwardy: `basic_debug` is used to show things like position and such rubenwardy: `debug` is wireframe rubenwardy: PR desc is outdated Pexin: hm Warr1024: Heh, it now means "require A debug priv, not THE debug priv" Pexin: on our server we "compete" by building better stuff, and having easy access to coords becomes kinda important Warr1024: If you want players to have access to coords then grant them that access Warr1024: It will be nice though to make cheats an "opt-in" only feature though. Warr1024: at least, the built-in cheats, even if we can't prevent hacked clients. rubenwardy: Pexin: then grant basic_debug Warr1024: tbf we'll have to get this merged first and then folks will need to update and THEN grant the priv. Unless someone either modifies the database directly or registers the priv preemptively with a mod. I don't think you can grant a priv that's not registered. sfan5: wait isn't that technically a breaking change rubenwardy: I don't think that debug info should count as part of the "API" used to determine breaking changes rubenwardy: but it could be mitigated by making it a default priv perhaps rubenwardy: although, that only applies to new accounts Warr1024: https://xkcd.com/1172/ sfan5: this is also bad because it will hide debug info on older servers with no way for server owners to grant it rubenwardy: then can register the priv themselves though? In a mod Warr1024: what do you mean "now way?"? Warr1024: They should be able to grant it once the change is in rubenwardy: Well, one way around this would be to make it a hud flag Warr1024: they'd only need the mod if they want to grant it preemptively so they don't forget at upgrade time rubenwardy: you can then use on_grant etc to tie it into a priv Warr1024: I think the HUD flag idea was explored but didn't get this far. rubenwardy: but this would be inconsistent sfan5: @Warr1024 but how do you grant it on a 5.4 server? sfan5: like ruben said you can only insert another mod Warr1024: The priv would only be needed on 5.5+ (or 5.6 if it doesn't make freeze I guess) so why would I need to grant it on 5.4? rubenwardy: the hud flag could be on by default sfan5: because you have people using 5.5 clients? Warr1024: Oh, 5.4 clients I assume wouldn't honor the setting and would just unconditionally show the debug info sfan5: that is the reverse of the problem I'm trying to explain Warr1024: Oh, 5.5 clients on a 5.4 server? rubenwardy: correct Warr1024: Sure, a mod would work. Or it could be registered with builtin in a 5.4.2 or something. rubenwardy: 5.4.2 wouldn't help as that's still a new release Warr1024: really it seems like a '/grant -f' option might make sense to allow server owners to grant unregistered privs in anticipation of them being registered later anyway. Warr1024: So what is your proposed alternative? rubenwardy: A hud flag like enable minimap makes sense, it would be on by default which would fix support with 5.4 servers GreenXenith: Dont hud flags make more sense in the context of modding APIs anyway? rubenwardy: yeah definiteyl Warr1024: What would that flag be though? "Require priv for debugging info" or "disable debugging info" and do the priv check server-side? rubenwardy: no rubenwardy: like enable minimap, it would disable the basic debug info rubenwardy: the flag doesn't know about the priv rubenwardy: The priv in builtin can use on_grant/revoke/join to set the hud flag. Mods can override the priv by unregistering it rubenwardy: or just setting in joinplayer after builtin Warr1024: Okay, well, you'd have to look back at the previous PR and the discussion on the original issue to see why that idea was rejected when it was explored. Warr1024: If whatever was concluded is wrong or no longer applicable then I guess we'll have to revive that line of inquiry rubenwardy: > “Why not using HUD flags?”. HUD flags are controlled by mods. This implies that mods can screw around with the debug info at will. All it takes is one poorly-coded mod to strip away the extended debug info from the admin, which is not fun to track down. Privileges, by comparison, are much more reliable and predictable and there are no ugly surprises. sfan5: that's pretty weak argument rubenwardy: yeah I agree Warr1024: At this rate though I'll have retired before we figure out how to actually get anything merged. sfan5: 0.3.1 had no Lua mods so logically mods can't mess anythin up sfan5: QED Warr1024: Was "mods can control" this really the reason to reject that? sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Warr1024: I thought having mods/games/servers able to control debug features was the whole point of this thing sfan5: doing :set_hud_flags({minimap = false}) doesn't touch all other flags, does it? GreenXenith: Is this Warr? 🙃 GreenXenith: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/856600943214985216/0vva3sr4pnq61.png Warr1024: haha exe_virus: Lol, nice Warr1024: I seriously doubt that story because there's never JUST ONE bug. rubenwardy: Wuzzy ^ Warr1024: I think the mod-controlled flag thing makes sense to me and would suit me fine. I would like NodeCore to be able to disable by default the debug info, but allow server owners and singleplayers and such to be able to override that should they choose. I am also fine with people creating mods that override it. I just want the DEFAULT experience when playing the game to be what it should be. Pexin: what it should be? Warr1024: I have instructions in the "new player guide" to set certain settings or do or don't do certain things, and that makes for a bad experience. I'd rather the game just do what it's supposed to do by default, so that players realize clearly that they're changing something when they play a different way. Wuzzy: Why was I summoned? rubenwardy: we're discussing #9315 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9315 -- Require debug priv to view gameplay-relevant debug info (2nd try), add wireframe priv by Wuzzy2 sfan5: the reason for not making the basic debug thing a HUD flag was considered insufficient Warr1024: Where was that comment about the HUD flag thing from anyway? rubenwardy: PR OP Wuzzy: so can i consider my PR to be rejected? sfan5: no? Warr1024: one issue and 2 PRs, each with a massive thread... wow, that's a lot to dig back through. rubenwardy: this is very much our fault for dropping the ball on this ZftxqBQjXIqw: Li83raChAT aIN't new fr33nod3, y0u'r3 mislED Warr1024: It looks like I actually advocated it to be a HUD flag that defaults to on (I think minimap and zoom are like that?), with the ability for a game/mod to turn it off, and then a priv to force it back on... rubenwardy: I see the basic_priv working like this when a hud flag is added: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/a64eeb55b1f4ae8d7d8e630e5a00c2cc rubenwardy: *basic_debug rubenwardy: if you still want the basic_debug priv sfan5: having a priv would be useful to avoid having to install a mod to make it work rubenwardy: yeah Wuzzy: uhhhh are we STILL arguing the HUD flag thing? nooooooooooooooo, i thought this was settled. :( so frustrating sfan5: but for compatibility and internal reasons it has to be a hud flag rubenwardy: a mod can then do minetest.registered_privileges["basic_debug"] = nil to unregister the priv, and control the hud flag without conflict Warr1024: Yeah, I think it was settled for you that a HUD flag wasn't what you wanted but I don't think other people accepted the issues you had with it, Wuzzy... rubenwardy: well, or just only set it to true - then basic_debug would be used for admins to have it regardless sfan5: by the way on_grant and on_revoke are broken rubenwardy: they get called twice but should work Wuzzy: i really really do NOT want a hud flag. its debug for crying out loud, not a gameplay thing sfan5: they don't do what you need if multiple privs are revoked or granted at the same time rubenwardy: I can't see any issues about on_grant GreenXenith: Well, it is a gameplay thing as it currently stands sfan5: Wuzzy: the debug information absolutely relates to gameplay or else we wouldn't have this whole issue and showing coord would be fine Warr1024: We get that you don't want a HUD flag but I don't think you've made your case why it needs not be. sfan5: rubenwardy: okay actually it should work for this sfan5: but let me illustrate why it's broken Wuzzy: yes. NOW it relates to gameplay. ripping out the gameplay out of the debug screen (by default) is the whole point of this issue, so that it is gameplay-free in the future without privs Warr1024: You mean you want to change the default behavior to opt-in. Warr1024: I could get behind that too, tbh, but we still need to make sure there's a smooth migration path or there will be a lot of noise about this change... Warr1024: but I don't see a way to smoothly change the default external behavior without doing it across 2 releases Wuzzy: If you need ANY mods to make debug screen work, that's a terrible TERRIBLE way to go forward. any bad mod and you can't access the debug screen anymore. this is absolute madness. debug should never work like this Warr1024: and IIRC this thing missed at least 2 releases already... Wuzzy: oh that's nothing Warr1024: I think what's being suggested here is that it should require a mod or game to make the decision to remove existing info from the F5 screen, and then they can use privs to restore it for selected playres. Wuzzy: we have PRs far older than that sfan5: "any bad mod and you can't access the debug screen anymore" and? sfan5: mods can break just about everything sfan5: why is this and exception? sfan5: an* rubenwardy: HUD flags can be on by default, and you can have the priv in built-in anyway Wuzzy: are you serious? its the debug screen. that's the ONE thing that should work reliably in minetest. debugging mods would be the absolute nightmare if you cant even rely on the debug screen anymore Warr1024: Not trusting mods with privileged system access, network connections, etc. as per mod security is one thing, but not trusting them with gameplay-affecting decisions is entirely another. Warr1024: The debugging screen already doesn't work if you introduce a crash-on-startup bug into a mod. Wuzzy: mods should have zero say in how the debug screen looks imo. if we let mods start to mess with the debug screen, this is going to make things extremely painful for modding/game making. Wuzzy: also, games should just use hud_add if they want coordinates back Warr1024: If you introduce a "makes the debug screen not work anymore" bug into a mod then yeah, you'd want to remove that same as you would an instant crash. GreenXenith: I think we are missing the clarification on what exactly is "debug" and what is not? sfan5: we don't seem to be talking about the same thing Wuzzy: this is a type of bug that should not even be possible sfan5: if "mods should have zero say on the debug screen" then Minetest already has this feature Wuzzy: yes Wuzzy: but you want to convince me to change that. WHY? Warr1024: So if you were against this feature then what was your motivation for making a PR for it anyway? sfan5: no you don't understand sfan5: the coordinates are always displayed in the debug screen and mods have no say in that sfan5: and you are saying "yes" to that Wuzzy: because its true Warr1024: I don't see how a priv prevents mods from controlling debug info with the PR the way it is anyway. You are talking about using a privilege to prevent mods from messing with it as if mods can't just grant/revoke privs. sfan5: uh uhm sfan5: are you aware that mods can revoke privileges? Wuzzy: i want to remove coords and seed from debug screen unless you got priv. so games can decide whether theyy want to expose coords on their own (with hud_add, etc) Warr1024: Yes, that's the whole point here sfan5: but games don't decide privileges either sfan5: server admins do Warr1024: Are you trying to create some kind of differentiation between games and mods? Wuzzy: mods/games revoking privs is rather rare tho Warr1024: Why am I getting the feeling that this thing has been open for so long that Wuzzy can't even remember why he got involved in the first place :-) sfan5: having a "bad mod" that hides debug info is just as rare Wuzzy: this doesnt justify hud flag Warr1024: No, mods that hide debug info are far more rare than mods that affect privs :-) sfan5: correct sfan5: there are other arguments that justify the hud flag Wuzzy: but priv is so much simpler for admin GreenXenith: Mods that affect privs for something other than privs' sake usually do so because they want to control something that is only controllable via privs Wuzzy: with hudflags admin is FORCED to install mod Warr1024: Without HUD flags admin is FORCED to install mod if they want the defaults the other way sfan5: having a priv would be useful to avoid having to install a mod to make it work sfan5: but for compatibility and internal reasons it has to be a hud flag Warr1024: we either force them to use a mod to remove stuff from F5 or force them to use one to re-add it back. Wuzzy: what compability and internal reasons?? Warr1024: While I agree that the latter is cleaner in the long run, I don't think people are willing to go through that pain. IhrFussel: Quite a few mods manage privs in order to control fly/fast/noclip and more in realtime...I do that for example to make 'fair zones' on the map where I don't want my players to have certain privs else it would be unfair/too easy Wuzzy: forcing me to install a mod just so i can see coords in debug is absolute madness. this is unacceptable Warr1024: Wat Warr1024: that's what we were just saying sfan5: if you have a 5.4 client connect to a 5.5 server the debug info will be hidden unless the server admin installs a mod to add the privilege (that doesn't exist yet in 5.4) Warr1024: If we use the HUD flag then we have a way to default coords to on so that the system continues to behave the way it did before by default and there are no surprises. Warr1024: If we rely on a priv being granted then that means that anyone upgrading will have to grant that priv to anyone they DON'T want to have a sudden change in behavior appguru: shouldn't a 5.4 client work fine? Warr1024: that's not an insurmountable problem but it's very error-prone and many server owners will probably miss the announcement. appguru: since they would ignore the extraneous privs Wuzzy: sfan5: sounds like you just gave an argument against hudflags sfan5: uh no? sfan5: hudflags can default to enabled no issue Warr1024: We do need to also consider the case of 5.5 clients on 5.4 servers and 5.4 clients on 5.5 servers, insofar as that there's anything we can do for them at all. sfan5: privileges that do not exist cannot default to on Wuzzy: wait, what? rubenwardy: sfan5 meant 5.5 client on a 5.4 server sfan5: oh yea appguru: if the server has the fix but the client does not, the client will still show debug sfan5: sorry Wuzzy: how? Wuzzy: since when do clients have to know about "legal privileges"? Warr1024: They can't Wuzzy: dont clients just get a list of strings or whatever? rubenwardy: 5.4 doesn't have the privilege, so the 5.5 client will never be able to show the basic_debug rubenwardy: unless you install a mod to add the privilege appguru: you could use a protocol version check sfan5: how would a client differentiate "the server knows this priv and I don't have it" and "the server doesn't know this priv"? rubenwardy: HUD flags can default to true, client-side, fixing this Wuzzy: wait. do you want to maintain 5.4<--->5.5 compability? Warr1024: To use a protocol version check we'd have to start actually being a little consistent about bumping the protocol version when there's a change to the MEANING of data over the wire, not just the format. appguru: yeah, otherwise this would be 6.0 Wuzzy: darn it!!! Wuzzy: This is why we can't have nice things. Warr1024: Unfortunately we will already have 5.5-dev clients connecting to 5.4 servers. appguru: eeh we got shadows sfan5: dev is irrelevant here rubenwardy: A protocol version check to not expect basic_debug would work Warr1024: We CAN have nice things, it's just gonna take a little work. GreenXenith: Oh dont worry, there are plenty more reasons why we cant have nice things appguru: those are a nice thing Warr1024: I personally am in favor of bumping the protocol version if that's an option :-) sfan5: @Warr1024 protocol version is consistently bumped when compatible changes to the packets cannot be made reasonably Krock: are we talking about taking away helpful debug information from the clients? Wuzzy: so. since the only reasonable solution (privs) breaks compability apparently, this means my PR has to be delayed till 6.0 then ... :((((((((((( rubenwardy: also, dev discussion in #minetest. Classic Warr1024: it gets bumped way to rarely as it is, making it very hard to know whether you can rely on certain features on the client from the server-side. sfan5: why bring this up though? protocol version does not need to be bumped sfan5: Wuzzy: it is perfectly possible to create a compatible solution with hud flags that ALSO does not force you to install a mod to get the info back Krock: it only needs to be bumped if you want to force clients to update by locking old ones out Warr1024: Bumping proto version would be a way to allow 5.5 clients to know that a server is 5.4 and wouldn't know about basic_debug. Wuzzy: here is what i want: Wuzzy: 1) unprivileged players dont get free coordinates Warr1024: sfan5: I also have a separate reason to want to see proto version bumped more: we don't have other version tracking that a server can use to tell what features a client supports. Wuzzy: 2) privileged players CAN get free coordinates on the debug screen appguru: what we're saying is that for compatibility reasons stuff should default to true, which it won't with privs Warr1024: For example, we might have minetest.features flag or something for "entity attachment supported" but it doesn't tell me which of the like 3 or 4 generations of attempts to fix it are actually in use on the client-side, and I may only want to actually use it if I know that not only will the client support it, but that it will actually work and not be buggy as hell. Wuzzy: sfan5: so basically i can throw my entire PR away and have to start from scratch. great ... sfan5: the features flag is server-side anyway rubenwardy: well, the protocol check could be a simple alternative rubenwardy: it depends on whether you think that control should lie with server owners or games Warr1024: All I want is (1) my game to be able to disable coordinates by default, (2) owners to be able to override this if it makes sense for them, and (3) the damn thing to actually stand a chance of getting merged, whatever other needs need to be appeased to allow that. Warr1024: sfan5: might be a separate issue in my case, I'm USUALLY more interested in knowing client feature support from the server side than the other way around. Krock: never trust the client tho Warr1024: I've already proposed that the protocol version be bumped at least once per release just to ensure that we can reasonably differentiate between whole releases, which was seemingly accepted, and then ignored for one release, and then now is thrown back into dispute. rubenwardy: the client doesn't really have any motivation to lie, except for downgrade attacks Krock: ^ right Warr1024: The purpose of interrogating the client is to find out what the client would want to offer it the best experience. If it wants to lie to me then there are easier ways for it to degrade its own experience. Wuzzy: So how WOULD the apparent HUD flag work, then? Krock: > offer it the best experience | hiding information in the client does not seem like better experience Warr1024: Also, "never trust the client" is a little ironic to be thrown about in the context of a game engine that trusts the client with all player movement and has very limited ability to validate it... :-D Warr1024: Hiding information in the client is ABSOLUTELY the experience improvement I want to make. Krock: right. that was not thought through well Wuzzy: Krock: the MAIN point here is about stop giving coords FOR FREE to all players by default Warr1024: I really get tired of players asking me about some internal object names that confuse them and then I have to inform them that they just accidentally cheated and now they've been spoilered. GreenXenith: Letting the client control information just contributes to Minetest's identity crisis of "to engine or not to engine" sfan5: rubenwardy: https://0x0.st/-9wR.txt do you see the issue? Warr1024: Minetest is like something that wants to be a game creation engine but can't actually make the transition from creation to created. I can make a game in MT but players are always treated as if they're devs who are supposed to be debugging the game. rubenwardy: sfan5: as in, incorrect get_player_privs due to call order? sfan5: correct sfan5: there is no consistent privs view sfan5: this has caused me major pain when writing something that is automatically enabled when you have both fly + fast Warr1024: oh, you mean the hooks fire at nonsensical times? Warr1024: Sadly I'm sort of used to minetest.after(0, function() ... end)ing so many things... sfan5: Wuzzy: you'd have a hud flag that shows the coords, it defaults to on; you also register a priv (just like now) that syncs with the hud flag by default *but* mods/games can unregister Krock: Wuzzy: as long the information is still shown by default it's okay for me. I don't see much point in hiding it, but if modders want that, then it should be added as a HUD flag true/false * Pexin: huggles Krock rubenwardy: #11372 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11372 -- Inconsistent get_player_privs in on_grant/on_revoke callback sfan5: s/unregister$/unregister this/ Wuzzy: i dont get it. hud fflag AND privs? sounds complicated and probably overkill Wuzzy: wait. so you want the default debug screen to have coords still, but with games having the option to remove the coords from debug screen? Krock: is there any priv that currently modifies the UI? Wuzzy: yes Wuzzy: debug sfan5: yes, the default behavior should not change Krock: ah right, wireframe. Wuzzy: but when a game disables the coords, this means admin can't see coords as well!! 🙁 Krock: HUD flags are player-specific, and so are privs Warr1024: Games are just going to have to be responsible enough to allow admins to admin. Wuzzy: wait.... sfan5: if the game does that for all players that's an issue with the game Wuzzy: do you mean the priv can be used to overwrite the game's decision?? Warr1024: If you are trying to run a game on your server and the game dev is fighting against you doing your job then frankly you should probably just not use that game :-) Warr1024: Priv overriding the hud flag would also be just fine to me. Wuzzy: argghh this MTDiscord user is so irritaing to read in my chatlog :/ specing: hiding coordinates is just wacky Wuzzy: i wish i had a tool to pretty-print that sfan5: the idea was that games can unregister the privilege so that's pretty much identical specing: imagine the amount of bug reports opened by people reporting that F5 no longer shows coordinates Wuzzy: specing: ........... sigh. here we go again ... sfan5: does your IRC client not support scripts? Warr1024: I think the game should be responsible for honoring the priv, or at least providing its own mechanism, but if you want a more powerful override, that's fine to me... Hawk777: Does the 5.4/5.5-mismatch privileges problem actually matter all that much? If the privilege option were used, only a 5.5 client connecting to a 5.4 server would unexpectedly lose access to debug info (but not any other combination), *and* if the server admin cared enough then it is *possible* to work around it (by installing a mod that allows the new privilege to be granted in the older version). specing: sfan5: modified clients are not allowed. You are supposed to enjoy MTDiscord being annoying as intended Warr1024: Just be glad it's not as much of a mess as the MT -> IRC -> Discord -> MT bridge I've had to deal with elsewhere. Krock: Hawk777: from what I can see is it about somehow dealing with old clients as soon the feature is merged Wuzzy: yeah i probably need a script to pretty-print MTDiscord's msgs GreenXenith: Blame IRC for not having API to display it any other way GreenXenith: At least on the Discord side you guys look like regular users because Discord lets us do that Hawk777: What’s the problem with old clients on new servers? They would (maybe) see an extra privilege, not care about it, and still show debug info. No change in behaviour. rubenwardy: new clients on old servers sfan5: I wouldn't call renaming the bridge bot on every message "discord lets us do that" rubenwardy: This problem could be simply fixed using protocol versions though GreenXenith: We dont rename the bridge bot rubenwardy: it uses webhooks to create users with custom names rubenwardy: no renaming Hawk777: Yes, that was my point. New clients on old servers would lose access to debug info (*NOT* completely break, just that one single feature), *and* if the server admin cared enough then they could re-enable it by adding a mod that knows about the new privilege. GreenXenith: and custom avatars Hawk777: It just doesn’t seem like a huge impact. rubenwardy: yeah and again has a simple fix rubenwardy: I think it comes down to whether you think this should be a server-owner determined thing, or more game controlled rubenwardy: and whether you want it by default or not sfan5: https://0x0.st/-9wC.png doesn't look like no renaming to me GreenXenith: Webhooks display with a bot tag sfan5: the name Warr1024: I don't think "controlled" is the right way of thinking about it. The server owner controls everything, including the game, because if they don't like something the game is doing then they can just take a hammer to it. We should mostly be trying to make it so they don't feel like they have to though. Wuzzy: rubenwardy: is it possible for the client to catch priv changes? thats kind of important for the bugfix ... sfan5: I am hovering over "Hawk​777" GreenXenith: The preview also changes sfan5: and it says sfan5 GreenXenith: If the bot was renamed, the Hawk777 in chat would change too rubenwardy: Wuzzy: the client must be told about priv changes, because it knows about privs to enable eg fly Warr1024: Just because a server owner MIGHT want to configure something explicitly doesn't mean that a game or mod should NOT have the ability to set a default for when the server owner doesn't want to override. sfan5: I can only conclude that discord is broken then Wuzzy: great Warr1024: I absolutely want to be able to set the default behavior for F5 debug info as a GAME publisher. GreenXenith: You know what, no commet GreenXenith: comment* GreenXenith: I can splel Wuzzy: I am so frustated by the dact that Discord basically took over the world of chat 🙁 Wuzzy: why do the proprietary assholes always win???! the world is not fair! Warr1024: It's not a take-over, it's just an expanded audience. IRC is still around, Matrix is still fine, and I'm on all of them to some extent or other. GreenXenith: Anyway, now I know there are at least 3 hidden core devs lurking on Discord ;p Warr1024: If we just settle on "F5 coords should be server-controlled" then I as a game publisher don't have any way to advise server owners that they should turn off coords by default other than having to contact each server owner and tell them how to setup their config. Warr1024: With SP it's even worse then because each individual player is a "server owner" of their own. Wuzzy: let me summarize the plan ... Wuzzy: 1) default behavior is the same as before Wuzzy: 2) hud flag to disable gameplay info from debug such as coords Wuzzy: 3) priv to overwrite the hud flag and get the full debug screen anyway (for admins, etc.) Wuzzy: is this correct? rubenwardy: that's correct if the hud flag approach is decided on Warr1024: by "overwrite" you mean "override" as in "ignore the flag if they have the priv" or do you literally mean "overwrite" as in "having the priv changes the flag value"? rubenwardy: an alternative is to just add a protocol version check to fix 5.5 clients on 5.4 servers rubenwardy: Warr1024: latter rubenwardy: there really needs be a consensus soon though Wuzzy: rubenwardy: i hope i can figure out how to "catch" the hudflag change in the client then ... to fix ur bug Warr1024: Okay, just wanted to clarify. Thinking about it more, that point doesn't really affect my response; if it works and passes review and testing then I would support it. Pexin: meek question: what are arguments against protocol check? Wuzzy: none rubenwardy: loss of game control, harder to make it enabled by default Warr1024: I think the argument against protocol check is one about purity of the terminology, i.e. that they only want to bump the protocol version when there's an actual change to the protocol. rubenwardy: which are two things people disagree on Pexin: does it make it harder to enable by default? rubenwardy: you can add the priv to default_privs, but that only effects new players Pexin: ah rubenwardy: there's no way to add a priv to all existing users currently without making it irrevokable Warr1024: MT does not have a way to differentiate between privs a player doesn't have because they're not supposed to, vs. privs they don't have because that priv didn't exist before. It would not be impossible to add that ability, but I doubt it would be worth the mess. Wuzzy: rubenwardy: ??? rubenwardy: Although, the hud flag approach probably has the same problem Wuzzy: rubenwardy: thats only true if you give it by default rubenwardy: as the priv messes it up and has the exact same behaviour Warr1024: The HUD flag at least allows us to avoid the irrevocability issue though Wuzzy: if you dont give a priv by default it is revokable rubenwardy: yes, but you can't give it to all existing users without a migration, which we don't currently have any means for rubenwardy: or perhaps you could write a mod and store a flag in player meta rubenwardy: which would be a mod way of enabling by default sfan5: could also invert the meaning of the priv Warr1024: The HUD flag allows us to have (1) something that can be freely enabled/revoked, (2) something that can be on by default, and (3) something that's sensible from an API perspective, i.e. not having "unprivileges" as privileges. Warr1024: inverting the meaning of the priv makes /grant all work funny. sfan5: would still leave the issue of games not being supposed to control privs on their own rubenwardy: that breaks the priv system though - a priv should only add an ability, not take it away sfan5: (it'd be a sign of inflexibility) sfan5: rubenwardy: creative takes away the ability to play in survival mode ;) rubenwardy: I also hate the creative priv, it never should have been added Warr1024: haha, well, "fly" priv takes away the ability to be unable to fly ... but the fact that "/grantme all" would actually take away abilities would be a mess to deal with. rubenwardy: a gamemode priv and `/gamemode creative` or `/creative` doesn't have that issue sfan5: games are free to unregister the creative priv I think Warr1024: "creative" in its entirety seems like something that should be entirely game-driven, not in builtin or engine at all. I've had to rip out some creative-mode stuff in NodeCore. GreenXenith: The priv system is sort of messed up to begin with ... privs should really only be connected to API features that enable/disable features. Like fast should be a physics flag or something that the priv controls. That way game and admin control is unified. Warr1024: It's fine though; I'm much less worried by something that requires a workaround than something that can't be worked around. wwar: Have 2 accounts, use 1 for craetive/admin stuff and the other for survival?.. Warr1024: Once upon a time MT was a game. Now, it aspires to be an engine ... but there's still a lot of "game" stuff left in that would have to get migrated over, and there's always a question of where to stop. Warr1024: It probably seemed obvious at some point in the past that "creative mode" should be a sub-game-mode that exists within each game ... but probably now that's less obviously true. rubenwardy: with a HUD flag, you can make it so that the priv enables it but it's redundant unless a mod disables it, perhaps Warr1024: Enabling something that's already enabled doesn't sound like a problem to me :-) rubenwardy: But there's still the question of whether it needs to be enabled by default, I think it's fairly useful by average users to have positions available for debugging Warr1024: It's all fine as an academic debate I guess but unless we come up with and agree to a better plan, I'll continue to back the one Wuzzy outlined above. Even if it's not theoretically perfect, if we can start being able to make this sort of change now, then we should also start being able to correct things later if it turns out we could have done them better. Warr1024: We've got enough different kinds of flags with overlapping functionality and subtlety of meaning that we could bikeshed this indefinitely if we wanted to. I'd rather see the feature see the light of day, enable some interesting challenging gameplay where it's used, and see how it behaves out in the field. Warr1024: If people are going to file MT issues about "why are debug coordinates missing" because a game decides to disable them then you'd already be seeing plenty of "why can't I chop down a tree" bug reports from NodeCore anyway. rubenwardy: This feels like a big mess, which probably indicates that the design is wrong GreenXenith: Youve just described Minetest as a whole Warr1024: More like software as a whole wwar: Isnt it possible to hide the debug info from nodecore only? Pexin: kinda feels like part of the issue is there are different expectations of how responsible and attentive individual game admins are Warr1024: If I wanted to get the design right first, I wouldn't have ever gotten around to writing a single line of code for NodeCore and there'd be nobody playing it today. Warr1024: wwar: hiding the debug info in nodecore only is sort of what I want, but it wouldn't make sense to just add an "if game == 'nodecore'" test or anything. Warr1024: I mean there should be a way to do this that's at least a little sane. wwar: I see wwar: But i think adding that even tho it makes less sense is better than people in nodecore being able to use it Warr1024: Also if we start doing game-specific checks in the engine then (1) we introduce circular dependencies to the ecosystem at large, and (2) it'll get messy FAST. celeron55: tl;dr about the debug coordinate thing? wwar: I played some nodecore few days ago and noticed that debug info will do some..cheaty stuff Warr1024: Wuzzy's plan will work fine for NodeCore, it sounds like it will work fine for games and servers that don't want to change anything, and I see on reason it shouldn't work for any other games that want to handle this differently either way. Wuzzy: celeron55: Wuzzy: let me summarize the plan ... Wuzzy: 1) default behavior is the same as before Wuzzy: 2) hud flag to disable gameplay info from debug such as coords Wuzzy: * logger56 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) Wuzzy: 3) priv to overwrite the hud flag and get the full debug screen anyway (for admins, etc.) wwar: yeah, noticed that one, was wondering why didnt you already do it (and got the answer) sfan5: games should have the ability to hide coordinates (and some other stuff) from debug info; the default behaviour should not change and server admins should have it easy to dis-/enable it without a mod sfan5: proposed solution being what Wuzzy pasted rubenwardy: celeron55: the PR adds a privilege to show the position etc in the F5 debug info. The problem with this is: 1) 5.5 clients on 5.4 servers won't be able to enable the position 2) it's disabled by default 3) games don't have any/much control Warr1024: Even if the game engine doesn't provide an override for the coordinate disabling, I would provide it at the game level anyway (and I would expect other games to do so as well) because server operators are part of my game's audience as well. celeron55: how many games are there that rely on debug coordinates being available to anyone? GreenXenith: None, I hope Pexin: define "rely" sfan5: but you wouldn't want to take them away by default would you? celeron55: servers are not a problem, their owners can add the priv, but some games aren't maintained and users don't know how to edit them celeron55: yes, i would want to take it away by default rubenwardy: there are two proposed alternatives: rubenwardy: A) Change to a hud flag, there would still be a priv to enable the flag. This is complicated rubenwardy: B) Keep a priv, use protocol version to fix 5.5 clients on 5.4. This would still take the info away by default and has no game controls, but there are workarounds Warr1024: The concerns I think are (1) 5.5 clients on 5.4 servers would lose coords immediately until server operators either upgraded or hacked around the issue, and (2) a general "least surprise" violation. sfan5: to be clear I don't have an issue taking it away by default if that's what we want to decide sfan5: it just needs to be looked at celeron55: and i like the privilege approach, the hud flag seems nonsensical rubenwardy: yeah, the priv approach is simpler Warr1024: I'm good with taking it away by default GreenXenith: Why exactly do we care about audience reaction? It's a game update, things are supposed to change. Wuzzy: my initial solution was about taking it away by default but it was basically murded by the core devs in cold blood rubenwardy: In which case, we can release an official mod to enable it on 5.4 and by default celeron55: it's the server owner's decision to grant the privilege if the server is used for debugging purposes sfan5: what makes it different from the minimap though? that's not a hud flag rubenwardy: The minimap is a hud flag? sfan5: not a priv* rubenwardy: ah Krock: on/off minimap is a hud flag, but there's also an API for it GreenXenith: (And again, HUD flags make more sense in the context of modding-- and games should have control over what gets displayed) celeron55: if a game wants to show coordinates, god damnit just draw the coordinates Warr1024: :-D celeron55: using the debug info is abuse of the engine celeron55: stop abusing my engine rubenwardy: I think the difference is that the minimap is 100% a gameplay feature, whereas the debug info is a debug feature that negatively impacts gameplay sfan5: that's okay for a justification celeron55: if coordinates drawn by a mod is too laggy or something, then add a hud item that shows the coordinates in real time that the game can add on the screen celeron55: s/add/implement/ GreenXenith: Haha, yeah actually that makes sense. Dont split info from debug at all, just make the priv for it. Games can revoke it and display stuff manually. rubenwardy: well, sometimes it takes celeron55 a few minutes to resolve a debate that's been going on for an hour Warr1024: I think we just sort of assumed that nobody would be okay with a change that radical. rubenwardy: yeah GreenXenith: Is it that radical of a change? celeron55: i think someone already suggested this, whoever it was maybe listen to him next time celeron55: he's faster than me Warr1024: Having a benevolent dictator around has some real perks. Wuzzy: using the debug info is abuse of the engine <<<< I have trying to say that for YEARS but nobody wanted to listen 🙁 GreenXenith: Hey benevolent dictator, can we have an explicitly defined direction for the engine to base changes off of? :] rubenwardy: Would you prefer using a protocol version check to enable the debug info on 5.5 clients with 5.4 servers, or requiring a mod for outdated servers? I prefer the former rubenwardy: The protocol version check would disable the need for a priv if the server is too old to have it celeron55: i don't see a problem in using the protocol version for that celeron55: it shouldn't cause any issues, right? sfan5: I thought the answer to that too would be "it's okay if it disappears" Warr1024: The only thing worse than a problem we can't solve because we can't find a solution is one we can't solve because we've got too many solutions, each of which could work just fine... celeron55: well people appreciate the compatibility and we never know how long certains versions end up being used celeron55: it pays to be careful celeron55: certain* sfan5: quick reminder that ubuntu and debian have still not packaged 5.4.x Pexin: I spoke with someone today who mentioned he needs 5.1.1 client for his game. obviously due to outdated mods. Warr1024: I'm on Debian and you should be thankful that they've bothered to do 5.x.x at all. Benrob0329: sfan5: Stable or backports/testing? sfan5: in any form sfan5: testing/unstable whatever Benrob0329: Ouch Pexin: re ubuntu: don't they use snap for that? Benrob0329: Usually Debian's rolling repos are fairly up to date, with the exception that they prefer LTS releases for some stuff rubenwardy: also PPA for Ubuntu Benrob0329: Are there official Appimages yet? Warr1024: Flatpak's MT was last I checked pretty recent, which was how I was running it on Debian for that period between my build scripts breaking due to the irrlicht fork and my finally getting them fixed. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04NeroBurner -> 03minetest/minetest: Move build/android directory to root of project (#11283) 13a7143c2 https://git.io/JnX3j (152021-06-21T19:51:42Z) Warr1024: I don't remember whether it was 5.4.0 or 5.4.1 Swift110-mobile_: hey all Warr1024: When was the "show block bounds" feature added? Warr1024: like as in first release it did or will appear in... Jonathon: 5.5-dev Jonathon: @Warr1024 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11172 Warr1024: Okay, good, I was worried that it had been in there forever and I was just a dunce for never noticing. Jonathon: by minetest terms is flew under the radar drama and action wise independent56: guten label (pun on tag) independent56: anyways, the server is private after port forwarding. i can still play on it, but nobody outisde the network can. shrikant: Hello! How can i change world size? sfan5: make it smaller? shrikant: for example shrikant: I have an idea to make world only 3 blocks width. But mapgen is v7 sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/stable-5/minetest.conf.example#L1766-L1770 shrikant: Can't do i it with mod? sfan5: you probably have to since 3 nodes is smaller than a single chunk (unit used by the map generator) shrikant: Can i generate normal map and after that make world smaller? sfan5: a mod could delete everything except the nodes you want to keep, automatically right after the mapgen finishes shrikant: Ok, thanks independent56: i think that minetest's ugliest block is permafrost. it looks horrible wwar: I dont like it too but pretty sure there are worse independent56: hmm yeah, i have a noob town on an ugly stone and snow mountain. i worldreplaced the snow with air, except on the DMZ. the permafrost is fugly, but that's what the noobs deserve shrikant: independent56: what is your server? independent56: http://192.168.1.119/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=start independent56: oh wait private IP independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=server ROllerozxa: the jungle tree block is by far the ugliest block though shrikant: independent56: lol independent56: i dont agree... the jungle block looks perfect independent56: but if you have ever went to a permafrost biome, it's like being in a 70s council estate. independent56: that's an actual photo of the server as well ROllerozxa: I get nauseous whenever I see the jungle tree block, there's something to the texture that just puts me at unease independent56: haha XD independent56: it looks perfect Ingar: lol NC10 Ingar: independent56: need a spare NC10 for spare parts? independent56: nay Ingar: I have a white one, but the monitor cable is broken or something ROllerozxa: well I guess it is just me then :< independent56: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/b37d39fc independent56: (for guy on my server) Krock: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/raw/d1f3e3fd SFENCE: Hi. I am trying to get entity type name from active object, I am interacting with. I am trying to find it in a documentation, but without success. sfan5: :get_luaentity().name SFENCE: sfan5 Does it need something special to be done? because when I call print(dump(object:get_luaentity())), there is no .name field. And it looks like it is nil, when I try to use it. independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=proposals:rs-pv-am_railway (for guy on sevrer) sfan5: SFENCE: since there's metatables involved dump may not show everything that you can read SFENCE: sfan5 ok, thanks. Looks well now. entuland: rawrolling 😂 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Inventory: show error on invalid list names (#11368) 132db6b07 https://git.io/JnrFY (152021-06-20T15:21:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfence -> 03minetest/minetest: Add min_y and max_y checks for Active Block Modifiers (ABM) (#11333) 13b10091b https://git.io/JnrF3 (152021-06-20T15:21:35Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pecksin -> 03minetest/minetest: Make chat web links clickable (#11092) 131805775 https://git.io/JnrFs (152021-06-20T15:20:24Z) erlehmann: wsor4035 are you getting my messages? Jonathon: yes ghoti: Is it possible to have multiple minetest processes using the same postgresql back end without corrupting the world? hecks: So why was the IRC moved? VanessaE: google "freenode imploded: VanessaE: " VanessaE: you'll find out all you need to know hecks: :o hecks: haha what the hell VanessaE: but in short, hostile takeover, original staff resigned, this network came into prominence, and here we are VanessaE: and the original freenode more or less went offline entirely several days ago sfan5: ghoti: if thy use different table/db names sure independent56: ok, i have banned "server", "admin", and "56i". misleading nicknames, go away! pGXcAyUuIfTH: 5ePaRAtI5m kI1l5 1RC, dO not beTr4Y fre3NodE EGvhlXiribcP: SeP4r4TisM K1L15 1RC, d0 not betR4y frE3nODE JMSYcEyNoEZz: Join fREENod3 SIdE, wE HAv3 c00KIE5&freE bnC uTOIxtpjKmNU: lur1N9 FReENOD3 u53rS hEr3 IS 1mpUdeNt thEFt entuland: "free bnc" what is even that ahahha hecks: can we like hecks: make all those admins fight to the death in the arena for our amusement instead of making us put up with this entuland: +1 entuland: but just those on the other side, among each other ghoti: sfan5: I was thinking more of using the *same* tables, i.e. making multiple minetest front-end servers using a common postgresql back end. ghoti: As for free BNC... My guess is that it's a desperate attempt to win back market share for 10BASE2, which of course is just as likely to resurge as Freenode. :P entuland: so BNC there stands for a type of cable? specing: entuland: freenode started providing free bouncers to everyone entuland: oh that makes more sense hecks: and free spam hecks: but what if it's the libera admins false flagging... i trust neither, ok? shrikant: Hello! How is `uses` working with tool when tool used as weapon? sfan5: punch_attack_uses controls that sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/stable-5/doc/lua_api.txt#L7248-L7254 independent56: https://imgur.com/a/s5OLq4E independent56: why isn't my TNT working properly, and not destroying this part of the tower? specing: Tbh with all the logging happening via matrix, irc and personal bouncers, it'd be stupid to not implement the IRC history extension and providing that to everyone sfan5: https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/chathistory btw Krock: specing: what? https://irc.minetest.net/ shrikant: sfan5: thank you erlehmann: specing xmpp is the only protocol where i have seen interoperable history actually erlehmann: everything else seems to be either too old if open standard or some company that thinks you could … gasp … go somewhere else erlehmann: i mean the freenode story kinda proves that it's really really hard to alienate users and keeping them erlehmann: if they only need to change a server address and can keep using their software stack erlehmann: Is it possible to have multiple minetest processes using the same postgresql back end without corrupting the world? erlehmann: ghoti what exactly are you trying to do? ghoti: erlehmann: I am trying to write a lua script that will be executed by cron, and will read the data inside xban.db. erlehmann: uh oh erlehmann: no idea then erlehmann: i thought maybe it could be side stepped ghoti: Oh wait, I am having multiple conversations here. Sorry, wrong one. ghoti: erlehmann: re the multiple server thing, I want to have a small collection of minetest servers sharing a world to help scale to accommodate load. ghoti: It's just an idea though, it could be foiled by record locking or non-transactional db updates or any number of things. sfan5: you picked a hard if not impossible problem sfan5: unless the area of the world active would never overlap but then why share it? ghoti: The xban.db issue is entirely separate, and I'm asking about that in #lua. :-) ghoti: sfan5: I am still learning about what parts of a minetest server tax what parts of a system or network. If CPU or memory becomes a problem, clamping down on the number of users seems to be the current best practice. erlehmann: ghoti which mod are you using that generates so much load? ghoti: erlehmann: none at all, this is theoretical. sfan5: the main bottleneck is certainly the single threaded mainloop of the server sfan5: however there's almost always some moderately easy optimization potential in mods ghoti: That's what I was thinking, and the migration to postgres definitely bought a performance boost for me. sfan5: if you know where to look ghoti: As I said, I am not trying to solve a problem that I am currently having. Just exploring how things might be done in the future. I will experiment a little. ghoti: I'm thinking that if, for example. two people mine a block, they are affecting a memory object that has been copied to the client, and when the client completes an action it sends an update to the server to record the change to the world. ghoti: If the client were to *lock* the affected node when digging begins, it would increase traffic, but allow for a second server not to permit actions on the affected block. ghoti: er, I mean node, not block (which i realize has another meaning) sfan5: what matters is the block though sfan5: it's the smallest unit stored in the db and thereforce the minimum you'd have to lock ghoti: Ah, okay. So at best, I could expect one person's activity in a block to lock out other people in the same block. entuland: yep, looks like something that could screw things up or slow them down it two players happen to be handled by two different servers and building in the same mapblock sfan5: but there's much bigger synchronization issues: cached map blocks, inventory, lua state, entities, ... ghoti: True. Perhaps a future goal might be a "multi-server" option that turns on the high traffic synchronization for all of these things as a server option. ghoti: ButI I understand there would not be huge demand for this. specing: Eh, this isn't a problem. Even if you have a protected area you can still dig the node client-side, the server will just "place it back immidiately" (deny the dig) and you wont get the lump/node in your inventory specing: In the case of two people digging, it just gives the node to the first one or something ghoti: .. and appears as "lag" to the second player? specing: ghoti: note that digging is actually two commands: START_DIGGING and DIGGING_COMPLETE ghoti: specing: is each of those commands sent to the server when it is triggered in the client? specing: I think so. At least I have to send both from CSM if I want the node dug ghoti: Perhaps this *will* be possible without major server surgery. I will experiment. ghoti: Thanks very much, both of you. specing: As for the "lag", if minetest was serious about CSMs, you could have a local mod that interfaces with areas server mod and prevent the dig animation to even happen for protected areas ghoti: Ooh, true, I always forget about CSMs. specing: I suppose you could do the same to cancel digging nodes that someone else is already working on ghoti: I like that idea. specing: but I don't think it's worthwhile, most of the tools used are crazy fast specing: Actually, I think this is doable in the official client already, at least the register_on_punchnode is ppart of official API specing: as are modchannels specing: so you can have a CSM that receives area info from server via modchannel and then returns true in on_punchnode if local player is not on the list specing: and same CSM could also receive data about nodes being dug in close proximity specing: and could perhaps even animate them as being dug (with a more advanced client) specing: so they aren't just disappearing ghoti: That sounds great. ghoti: I will explore, thanks. shrikant: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/tools.html there are two termins - rating of node in groupcap and level of node in groupcap. Are node rating and node level different termins? BigBear: shrikant - level is not the same as rating. e.g. {cracky = 3 , level = 2} might be on a node, but i havn't experimented with level much myself. shrikant: BigBear: is cracky = 3 - rating? BigBear: yes BigBear: so cracky=3 will dig fairly quickly/easily with pickaxe, but the level=2 means you still can't dig it at all with a stone pickaxe because it is maxlevel = 1. BigBear: (i think) BigBear: the timings combine the level and the rating (cracky) values in combination with the tool timings shrikant: Can i brake pickaxe when digging only N blocks of stone faster, then digging N nodes level=1? shrikant: BigBear: thank you BigBear: the higher the max level of the tool, compared to the level of the node, the more 'uses' you get out of it. So higher level nodes wear tool more. shrikant: hmm... Interesting shrikant: There is no one count of durability. BigBear: yeah, so with one pickaxe you can dig more blocks of stone than blocks of obsidian before breaking. shrikant: But how this minetest's "durability" store in world? shrikant: in files BigBear: so the durability is the 'uses' on the tool definition, but i think you might be asking about *wear* which is stored against the tool - similar to param1 and param2 on nodes i guess calcul0n__: wear is stored in item's metadata calcul0n__: (iirc) calcul0n__: ho i'm wrong, that's a specific feature: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/items/inventories.html#wear BigBear: yeah i noticed it had its own 'set_wear' , wasn't sure about actual under-the-bonnet implimentation though. independent56: ugh, can the aincent civilisatioins who built dungeons build better? i am sick and tired of rennovating dungeons and finding weird walls. BigBear: bit late, they are long dead i think :p, weird how? independent56: hmm independent56: yeah, should jave used past tense. and wow... they spread all over the map 0_0 independent56: why were they so much better at conquering then me? hecks: that's why they're dead, they got stuck in their cobble homes after forgetting to build stairs BigBear: you know i remember seeing on tv the oldest known organised human civilisations, and they didn't have individual houses, they had their homes as a warren of small rooms all built together, and they would climb out the roof to enter and leave, and walk over the flat roof to get anywhere independent56: XD independent56: anyways, does anyone recognise the playername "talex"? this is the second time he played on my server. hecks: why, did he do something? independent56: joined for a second time. shrikant: lol independent56: i ave only had visitors, who play once and say "latency :face_vomiting:" BigBear: lol shrikant: independent56: he want to say it twice :D independent56: XD independent56: then explain this: independent56: https://imgur.com/a/o8xuHyb independent56: wb ywang independent56: the advtrains issue is fixed by just not using the broken track section. (maybe i shouldn't say fixed, maybe i should say "hacked") GNUHacker: hi BigBear: do you think anyone actually plays minetest with the Lojban locale? independent56: yes. i use it. english is too vouge BigBear: vague? or vogue? English is an awful language, but if the purpose of language is to communicate to actual people... BigBear: adoption is kinda important BigBear: like ip4 independent56: haha Krock: BigBear: so apparently there's exactly one person :P SwissalpS: one person still on ipv4 or what? Krock: context. Lojban language. SwissalpS: sorry, I need to go read the log before asking :/ independent56: so... you're telling me that the freenode network, wich has lived 26 good years has died? oh my god... independent56: fuck this andrew guy. specing: independent56: no, freenode just changed the name to libera specing: ugh, the discord bridge is back, time to stop chatting entuland: eheheh independent56: phew... oh wait hecks: we're still on freenode, some rich korean just stole the name, that's all independent56: haha oh yeah independent56: what is //deleteblocks but for strictly the selection, and not the mapblock? wwar: umm.. deleteblocks regenrates an area and removes every modification happened after the server was first created.. thats what i know wwar: (in the selected area) wwar: (and that area is bigger than the place you select with //1 and //2) independent56: i know that. and it was a pain. i want to remove the blocks, but make the landscape come back. i am doing this right next to a building. wwar: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/855875378279219250/Screenshot_2021-06-19-21-25-55.png wwar: Its desicription ^ wwar: Works according to mapblocks so if you selected a bit from the next mapblock it will delete the whole mapblock wwar: Well deleteblocks isnt safe near buildings but you can try that (not 100% safe) going 17 blocks away in the direction of the area you want to delete and select the pos1 and 2 as 1 block and do the command independent56: i want //deleteblocks, but it would remove the blocks and regrow natre in the section. something liek "//clear" or "//removeblocks" wwar: well you can set the place to air if you need "//removeblocks" wwar: That will not regen the area tho sfan5: it would be possible to have the mapgen regenerate the section on a copy of the map and only copy the wanted parts back sfan5: but such thing do not exist right now independent56: sad independent56: have you any poor experience with "maja3"? they joined my server independent56: how do i disable ABM logging? independent56: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/56b49f19 independent56: oh and also, we have these inconsistencies like "enable_setting_thing = true" and "setting_thing = true" and "disable_setting_thing = true". why do we do this? it is inconsistency! Jonathon: the only thing consistent about minetest is its inconsistencies independent56: XD Krock: open an issue about it Krock: nobody will care sfan5: even with an open issue it's not worth changing Krock: you can disable the ABM logs by modifying the source or setting the log level to ERROR Krock: or better: optimize them so that they're not triggered in first place independent56: hmm... if only my world.mt was'nt 30 mb Krock: why is your world.mt 30 mb? specing: in unrelated news, independent56 figures out that running a server isn't a piece of cake independent56: XD independent56: i actually like all this shit wich computers throw at me. it's much better then IRL shit. independent56: or maybe i have stockholm syndrome :thinking: independent56: crap independent56: must be the minetest server hogging all network independent56: shutting down the server independent56: *minetest server entuland: independent56, there seems to be just too much stuff accessible on that server of yours independent56: like what? 0_0 entuland: I can't tell how much of that is on purpose or not, but you may want to prevent file listing and accessing ini files and the alike entuland: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/docker/ independent56: oh god! i never know that existed 0_0 * independent56: searches up how to disable file browsing XAMPP y5nw: since it uses apache I think .htaccess should be enough Jonathon: lol specing: lol specing: indepwned56 independent56: i know... i am trying to solve the error, but i am slow Krock: the blog is kinda cringe Krock: and the main page spells "dokuwiki" wrong Krock: hence 404 error independent56: oh fuck Krock: hey entuland add yourself to the wiki before it's too late 8) independent56: idrc about my blog. my server, so i choose what i put on it. * entuland: giggles Krock: :D entuland: gotta love UTF-8: "You have reached 56i’s IP address" independent56: the page isn't protected because it is a //wiki//. it is for public editing Krock: noooo Krock: somebody removed it independent56: i did independent56: and i disabled editing independent56: i am an admin, so i do what i like on my servrr Krock: entuland: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=top_secret_hideout_place Krock: but don't share pls entuland: ahahahah entuland: let's start an edit fight Krock: well it's game over entuland: already? oh my Krock: i56 doesn't think that it's funny entuland: I should have PMed everyone but i56 :P independent56: >:-> Krock: :3 independent56: admins will always win. i learnt the hard way Krock: until we get admin privs independent56: *restores yesterday's backup* Krock: *deletes backups* entuland: http://gph.is/2gE3XZv Krock: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_cloud.png independent56: yeah... i should stop keeping my password as "123456" independent56: XDXD that joke is funny independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=server independent56: have a look independent56: i might as well disable port forwading independent56: 404 XD Krock: https://i.postimg.cc/WpgHGxj2/why.png Krock: 123456 is not working independent56: did you think i was that stupid? Krock: perhaps Jonathon: no, but its probably something similarly stupid Alias: Try "raspberry" Benrob0329: hunter2 independent56: *disables wireless networking on the webbook* Krock: Alias: not working. Benrob: not working, already tried independent56: one command - "nmcli radio wifi off" independent56: portforwarding disabled entuland: "there is this weird channel on the Minetest Discord where dozens of bots interact with each other all the time, and they kinda make some sort of sense sometimes, the AI there is flexing some serious ML" Jonathon: 😏 Krock: your server is offline Krock: and I just found another possible exploit Krock: please i56 start it again entuland: the cable passes through a guillotine hole connected to a big fat red button Krock: why not to a lego? you're more likely to hit that Krock: with your feet at least independent56: ok... fine. just HTTPS port forwarding this time Krock: rip SSH entuland: oh nice, 1-1 Krock: hmmm http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=do_not_open_this_image.png Krock: is this supposed to be there independent56: will be removed as soon as i am able to Benrob0329: Hahaha independent56: probably using the guilotine method of ssh rm independent56: *sudo rm Krock: I could upload Minetest there Krock: yep entuland: independent56, just for the records, when you have such a pierced system the best thing you can do is probably put it immediately offline to be thoroughly checked (it's not like you're getting sued for interruption of service) Krock: guys there's now a somewhat trustworthy official Minetest mirror: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?ns=mods%3A&image=mods%3Aminetest-5.4.1-win64.zip&do=media&tab_files=files&tab_details=view Krock: *cough* /s entuland: someone else may have spotted such issues before I did days ago independent56: XD nah entuland: that's your call entuland: your system may have a few dozen backdoors installed already independent56: yeah... i need to fix that. time for more sysadmin work Krock: hey. the page is down again independent56: i took it down Krock: I hope you've got that Minetest copy Jonathon: and pray tell what fun and games did you put in it? Krock: none. I just grabbed the 5.4.1 Win64 build Jonathon: shame Krock: the file limit was 128 MB so I could've uploaded a development build with pointer sanity checks built-in. 30.3 MB for the executable alone independent56: ok, i am making a tiddlywiki note so i can fix these problems. Krock: but make sure nobody can edit that note independent56: https://imgur.com/a/uGG20e6 independent56: it is on a local file, on my main computer. it has no port forwarding rules enabled independent56: im adding "run by 14 yr old on first peak of dunning-kruger" entuland: eheheh, nice one independent56: https://imgur.com/a/oVurkgq independent56: note made exe_virus: In case anyone is wondering: yes, taking wuzzy's old mods and trying to get them running in recent MT versions is tedious. But the programming style is not that bad independent56: i'll take it back online when the issues get fixed. Benrob0329: Honestly TiddlyWiki makes for a decent website in general, especially with the Github and Gitlab back ends that push a commit to the repo independent56: i love tiddlywiki. i wouldnt use it online, but i would use it as a personal notebook independent56: and i do independent56: wiki is now fixed mckayshirou: wich is the chance that 100 differently-coded/themed mods would crash, collide? mckayshirou: (dreambuiilder pack, homedecor-xdecor etc, many mobs mods, and custom shadows) independent56: you might hit the 36 K node limit independent56: ~ IhrFussel: 32K* mckayshirou: i mean, wich lua error can happen independent56: file listing disabled mckayshirou: at runtime ¬_¬ independent56: entuland, do you think it is a good idea to open my server up again? independent56: Krock, i will open up the sever. entuland: can't tell, I'm not a security expert and I have no idea of what you have patched among the potential flaws independent56: expectable independent56: http://2.26.38.198/wordpress/2021/06/19/breakdown/ independent56: can't be bothered being awake, port forwarding disabled specing: lol independent56: well goodnight, i have just realised how little i know, mckayshirou: gonna run 1 hundred mods on 1gb ram... praying to god entuland: that's a good base to increase your knowledge, don't worry Warr1024: I use a VPS with a static IP but I also use a dynamic DNS because (1) I already had an account so it was effectively free and (2) it's easier to remember than a buncha numbers. Warr1024: Also it made migrating to a different host really seamless and transparent to users. ar10ch: yeah my main concern was that every tim my router updates, it's out-facing IP changes, I thought DDNS fixed that Warr1024: DDNS does fix it but you need to be running an update client to keep it up to date, and there can still be a few minutes' delay for DNS caches to flush out. entuland: your public dynamic IP could change at any time even just restarting the router (say, power loss) in theory entuland: I had such IPs change on me all the time Warr1024: In very theory they could just refuse to renew your IP lease and issue you a new one right in the middle of a session and you'd just have your existing connections crap out for a bit. I've done this to devices on my network when I reorg IP space and they mostly just handle it. ar10ch: It sounds more and more like remote-hosting is the answer Warr1024: Don't get too attached to any specific IP address :-/ entuland: oh nice, IP change without closing the connection looks nasty ahahaha Warr1024: A VPS or other cloud-type host is a better option, yeah. Warr1024: Also, even if your IP doesn't change, your ISP may have other ways to screw with you, such as blocking ports, throttling, or slapping you for ToS violations if you have residential service with a "no public servers" term. Warr1024: In practice they rarely bother, but they COULD ar10ch: yeah i guess for high traffic. my speed aint great but it aint lousy neither, but I am on a budget package atm entuland: yeah, I've heard many reports about throttling and port blocking from players I support all around the world entuland: fritz!box routers in germany often come with a filter that simply flat out cuts any attempt at contacting IP addresses directly (luckily it can be disabled) Calinou: for dynamic DNS, I use https://www.nsupdate.info/ TvSHnaeowOqL: 1iBErA.chat iS a s(aM, (omE 8ack to fR3En0de mckayshirou: XD mckayshirou: It is no sense since they just now steal information mckayshirou: cleared alot of bridges and bots AQRbxePPKvZQ: lIBER4.(hAT IS A scAm, c0me 8a(k TO fr3en0DE mckayshirou: sfan5 or celeron55 ipban that guy mckayshirou: thx entuland: nice how professional that message is with the leetspeak :P erlehmann: entuland fun thing: you could avoid the automatic ban for metioning libera.chat by just claiming your channel moves to liberia chat! entuland: ehehe erlehmann: also my n key is broke entuland: macro it away :P Warr1024: libera.chat really sounds like a form of era.chat that you can link into your own programs. cheapie: Well, as far as I can tell, the current official build of Minetest works completely fine on the current state of Windows 11. cheapie: (which I suppose is to be expected, it's not that much different from 10) ROllerozxa: I don't think any sane person actually plays minetest on windows to begin with mckayshirou: yeh mckayshirou: they better play ads games ROllerozxa: seriously though I'd actually go out on a limb and say that windows users are actually a minority of minetest players mckayshirou: i do better do not see that sacrilegy, and go to sleep cheapie: ROllerozxa: I use Linux on most of the boxes here, but I figured I'd try it on here since I was trying out that leaked Windows 11 build, so *shrug* mckayshirou: fine then Warr1024: People do run MT on Windows, and every other platform it supports (and a few it doesn't). Be wary of sampling bias... mckayshirou: ye , but there are some popular games that are not made to run on linux (and are blamed to run on) mckayshirou: the same applis to minetest here Warr1024: +1 to anyone making it work on more platforms mckayshirou: yes but not on windows :P Warr1024: MT is kinda awkward on Windows from what I've seen/heard, but it's nice that it's at least an option. mckayshirou: kinda = very ROllerozxa: in what way is it awkward, other than the fact it's officially distributed as a portable zip archive? Warr1024: Eh, as far as open source stuff on Windows goes in general I didn't don't MT particularly bad. And if I've gotta run Windows at all I still want to bring the open source world with me as far as that's possible. Jonathon: Try running minetest on windows, then run minetest on wsl and compare fps (wsl wins) Jonathon: Other than that, minetest isnt to bad on windows mckayshirou: i am gonnay say this: latest minecraft is faster than minetest debian 11 mckayshirou: windows* 11 Warr1024: tbf nearly anything should be faster than waiting for debian 11 😏 mckayshirou: that are wise-words mckayshirou: (+b *!*@88.155.57.123 mckayshirou: sorry mckayshirou: just want to invasigate if that guy is from freenode VanessaE: well, VanessaE: more shaders aren't really needed right now. maybe sun glare and reflective water later, but now what's needed are bugfixes and fine-tuning :P VanessaE: (but everyone here knows my stance on that -- fix bugs, improve performance, and only add new features after) Soni: anyone knows how to use libotr? exe_virus: Yep, I'm all for cleaning and features in parallel, but cleaning should typically have first priority MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add roadmap (#10536) 13e1b297a https://git.io/JnCom (152021-06-17T03:15:30Z) nisa: test mckayshirou: delay test to your server? Santiago39_3: hi Santiago39_3: i'm trying to install a minetest server for my kids to play in a home server mckayshirou: well what help do you need Santiago39_3: i managed to do so, but i feel i could add some mods and stuff like sounds Santiago39_3: it is installed in debian 10 Santiago39_3: i installed some minetest-server-mods related packages from debian repos mckayshirou: just puts the mods's directories in ~/.minetest/mods Warr1024: Play the game in single player, use the Content tab to find mods available, install them there, enable them in your world, and try them out, to figure out which ones you want. Santiago39_3: minetest-mod-torches minetest-mod-throwing minetest-mod-nether minetest-mod-moreores minetest-mod-moreblocks minetest-mod-homedecor minetest-mod-currency minetest-mod-basic-materials Santiago39_3: like those Santiago39_3: this folder ~/.minetest/mods goes in client machines? Warr1024: Be aware that once you've added a mod to a world, it may add things to that world that may make removing the mod later awkward, e.g. you can end up with a bunch of "unknown node/item" things scattered about, so best to try out the mods and curate a set you like first before committing to a new world with them. mckayshirou: Warrr1024 anything could go wrong whit that, and also download time is slow Santiago39_3: or server? mckayshirou: yeah Santiago39_3 Santiago39_3: some mods are for clients and some for server? Warr1024: Using OS package managers for installing mods, especially on debian, is largely going to just give you a limited and outdated selection. mckayshirou: and some incompatible mods may make nasty thing happening when starting Santiago39_3: i dont get to fully understand this mckayshirou: no Santiago39_3 they are the same Santiago39_3: clients download them from the server then? mckayshirou: yes they do Santiago39_3: available mods Santiago39_3: ok Warr1024: Almost all MT mods (especially the ones that affect gameplay) only need to be installed server-side Santiago39_3: so, minetest server version running is 5.3.0 mckayshirou: just download these put in your servers mods folder and run sfan5: you should uninstall the mods from the repositories, they're hopelessly outdated Santiago39_3: should i remove it and install a newer one? mckayshirou: nope mckayshirou: it is fine sfan5: 5.3.0 is also outdated but it's less of an issue Santiago39_3: where is the server mods folder? mckayshirou: ~/.minetest/mods sfan5: wrong Warr1024: Be aware that games for MT do behave differently than mods. I've had a few people break a game by trying to install it it as a mod... Santiago39_3: clients are also debian 10 and run minetest 5.3.0 mckayshirou: heh ¬_¬ that was sfan5 sfan5: well partially sfan5: it depends on which user the server is running as Santiago39_3: you mean /root/.minetest/mods ? sfan5: and that depends on how debian has set it up sfan5: yea that might work mckayshirou: Santiago39_3: are you running server as root??!?!? sfan5: good point actually sfan5: it won't be /root sfan5: if you know the world folder you can also create a "worldmods" inside and put your mods there Santiago39_3: i'm running it with /etc/init.d/minetest-server start sfan5: easier and guaranteed to work mckayshirou: but as which user , you should do whit the normal one (non root) mckayshirou: sfan5 ye but it is almost the same Santiago39_3: i think the user is a system user called Debian-minetest Warr1024: Running MT as root is okay ... if that's the ONLY thing you do with that machine. mckayshirou: It is fine then Warr1024: Docker is a nice way to run MT tho sfan5: I just checked the package and it's indeed Debian-minetest mckayshirou: Docker is hard to set Santiago39_3: i dont know where is the folder then Santiago39_3: there is no /home/Debian-minetest Santiago39_3: whatsoever mckayshirou: just do cd $HOME/.minetest/mods sfan5: this is the point where you'd read debian documentation or ask someone there sfan5: but I doubt they know either Warr1024: Learning docker JUST to run an MT server is probably more of a pain in the ass than it's worth, but if you're already familiar with docker, already run containers, and/or want to be able to move your MT server setup around easily, the effort eventually pays for itself. mckayshirou: yeh but in a brand new pc just for MT it is not worth the effort mckayshirou: on a workstatio it is worth, for example sfan5: here's my suggestion: uninstall it and start over, you can easily compile the server and receive a portable build sfan5: then you have mods/ games/ and worlds/ folders with no confusion where they are and can start the server yourself manually sfan5: perhaps someone else should package that nicely so users don't have a hard time setting up one mckayshirou: [Away] mckayshirou: i already done but for 0.4 sfan5: ( here's what I'm thinking of https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=311160#p311160 ) mckayshirou: That is very hard to do for a medium user mckayshirou: should be something like 1) download 2) install 3) add mods 4) run Santiago39_3: ok i found the folder Santiago39_3: is /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/mods Santiago39_3: now, i wanted to install ambient sounds but i cannot get them work i think Santiago39_3: i found this https://github.com/Neuromancer56/MinetestAmbience Santiago39_3: is there a repo with updated mods? mckayshirou: Anything added goes to /mods Santiago39_3: maybe i'm trying to install old stuff mckayshirou: no there is not Santiago39_3: ok mckayshirou: these mods are the same as 2015, but are very stable sfan5: did you enable them in world.mt? mckayshirou: and othe mods depend on them, so dont deinstall these mckayshirou: makes sense XD independent56: i have been using this channel for far too much off-topic. what IRC channel on libera is great for general programmer talk? mmuller: it looks like debian's version of minetest is still at 0.4.17, so I expect there will be some problems with many mods Santiago39_3: so, what mods you recommend me to add? Santiago39_3: my kids are 7 and 10 yo Santiago39_3: they are fans of minecraft, terraria, etc mckayshirou: Search for these : "homedecor" "caverealms" "xtraores" "plantlife" "3d_armor" mckayshirou: "craftguide" also is good choice Santiago39_3: i dont have "caverealms" "xtraores" "plantlife" mmuller: I personally like dreambuilder -- it's a modpack that includes a few of the mods mckayshirou named and many more mckayshirou: But these adds some complicated to understand mods mmuller: I believe VanessaE still maintains it mckayshirou: it does Santiago39_3: so, i git clone mod into mods folder and thats it? * VanessaE: hides Santiago39_3: do i have to enable it in world.mt? mmuller: :-) mckayshirou: yes Warr1024: Dreambuilder used to be a modpack but the newer versions are a full game... Santiago39_3: how do i enable caverealm?¿ mmuller: in world.mt, add a line "load_mod_caverealms = true" mckayshirou: duh, i waited to someone to said since i use 0.4 and dont know the new configuration mmuller: AFAIK, this hasn't changed mckayshirou: well, before there was a mods.conf whit a plain list of enabled mods mckayshirou: like : name_of_mod1 mckayshirou: name_of_mod2 and so on Santiago39_3: the folder is minetest-caverealms, should use the folder name? mckayshirou: yes nisa: oh damn, that dynamic shadows thing is amazing mckayshirou: if does not works, change the " - " to " _ " mckayshirou: nise and is amzingly buggy mmuller: yeah, was about to say, I don't think the hyphens will work nisa: mckayshirou: works fine here mmuller: nm, then :-) VanessaE: oh and yeah. as Warr said, Dreambuilder exists as a proper game (or as proper as I'm willing to do :P ). Since it's based on mtg, it'll work with most mods. sfan5: you can restart the server and Minetest will add the lines to world.mt sfan5: you only need to edit them to say "true" then dwigton: looking for a recommended mod list for casual server play with young kids. So far we have just played the standarg game in creative mode, but would like to try easy mobs / crafting. Santiago39_3: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "MinetestAmbience" "plantlife_modpack-master" dwigton: Also, is it one server process per world on the server? Do I have to write my own startup script to run different games on new ports simultaneously? Warr1024: If you want multiple worlds then you'll need multiple processes and probably multiple scripts Santiago39_3: ModError: Failed to load and run script from /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/mods/xtraores/init.lua: Santiago39_3: trouble with lua nisa: Hold on I am not able to connect to any servers anymore nisa: 2021-06-17 19:50:58: ERROR[Main]: Connection timed out. nisa: this is all I get nisa: Is it a know bug? mckayshirou: nisa connectios error, probably wrong port or domain nisa: nope mckayshirou: also can happen when downloading big media nisa: Happenes to every single server from server list nisa: And it happens right at the beginning mckayshirou: no cluew nisa: Wait pinging these servers does not work either?? nisa: nils@lyllia:~/Programme/OSS/minetest> ping your-land.de nisa: PING your-land.de(2a02:c207:3002:9452::1 (2a02:c207:3002:9452::1)) 56 data bytes sfan5: sounds like you broke your internet sfan5: partially Warr1024: Try turning your internet back on. nisa: lol nisa: AHA ipv4 works mmuller: Santiago39_3: is there any kind of error message under that or is "trouble with lua" literally what you see? nisa: how do I tell minetest to prefer ipv4? nisa: it seems to be trying to connect via ipv6 which can't work Santiago39_3: mmuller, https://paste.debian.net/1201553/ y5nw: Santiago39_3: apparently you need to install the plantlife mod then mckayshirou: COnfig menu -→ Advanced config (lovwer left) -→ Server/Singleplayer -→ Network -→ Server IPv6 to disabled mmuller: well, it looks like there's also a problem with the xtraores mod directory mmuller: As in the init.lua file is missing? Santiago39_3: i cloned the repo into mod foldes Santiago39_3: folder mmuller: this repo? --> https://github.com/daviddoesminetest/Xtraores- mckayshirou: it is direcly something whit incompatibility, just remove it Santiago39_3: i see Santiago39_3: xtraores has 'xtraores - titanium is unbreakable v0.22.zip' 'xtraores 0.1∆.zip' folders inside Santiago39_3: which one is? Santiago39_3: plantlife has some folders inside too, 3dmushrooms bushes cavestuff dryplants flowers_plus... etc y5nw: Santiago39_3: then it's a modpack y5nw: (i.e. a collection of mods) * mckayshirou: leaves the big charge to others and go to eat *** mckayshirou: [Away] y5nw: Seriously though, why do people upload zipped mods into a _git repo_ mmuller: if so, I believe there should be a modpack.txt file there? mmuller: y5nw: seriously mmuller: Santiago39_3: as far as xtraores, I'm guessing pick one depending on whether you want titanium to be unbreakable or not :-) Santiago39_3: lol Warr1024: If they can't figure out how to distribute their mod sanely then that reduces the likelihood that the mod itself is actually worth using. y5nw: mmuller: there is a modpack.txt in the plantlife modpack GreenXenith: I highly suggest my fork of xtraores (if you want that version) ;p https://github.com/GreenXenith/xtraores y5nw: that mod developer should lern to use MT configs ghoti: What's the format of the xban.db file? It looks a little like JSON, but with the 'return' in front it also seems like it might be for inline evaluation by something. Krock: ghoti: serialized Lua Krock: would not recommend doing that but that's what we've got... ghoti: Hmm, okay. So if I'm going to write stuff to interpret it outside of a mod, is it important to match the embedded lua version? Krock: any Lua version from 5.1 or newer should be fine ghoti: It appears from the README on github that lua 5.1 is being bundled. Krock: perhaps lower would work too, since no keywords other than "return" can be used there Santiago39_3: how can i change all false to true in world.mt? Santiago39_3: maybe a sed command? Krock: right. although LuaJIT is recommended ghoti: I'm in FreeBSD, my easy options are 5.1 through 5.4. :) Krock: Santiago39_3: sed to remove all lines that contain `load_mod_* = false` or so Krock: err Krock: *change all lines; not remove Santiago39_3: i deleted the world, and it generated it again and the world.mt file as well Santiago39_3: but all mods turned off by default Santiago39_3: how can i switch them to true? Krock: join the world and leave it again to generate world.mt ghoti: Krock, sorry for the newbie questions.. What exactly is luajit? Is it a fork of a particular lua version? Or something that depends on whatever version of lua you have installed? Krock: or rather.. to populate it Krock: ghoti: it generates bytecode that is insanely fast to execute compared to plain Lua Krock: https://luajit.org/ mckayshirou: so mods written in luajit should be alot faster? mckayshirou: or not? ghoti: Okay, yes, I know what JIT is in general, I'm just wondering what version of Lua I'm writing for if I install luajit. Krock: no. you write mods for Lua 5.1 and LuaJIT is compatible with that Krock: there are a few LuaJIT-exclusive features which might make your mod not well portable Krock: ghoti: Lua 5.1, because that's what LuaJIT supports ghoti: Righto. mckayshirou: Thx ghoti: I'm looking at non-mod stuff for the moment -- writing nagios and munin plugins to start. Santiago39_3: well, i'm keeping reappearing in a very high place, and i cannot move because i fall and die Santiago39_3: i deleted the world and it keeps happening, is this a mod or something? mckayshirou: try using creative mode and using /setworldspawn in a normal zone mckayshirou: its is probably you disabled ever mods and then the world is not generated Santiago39_3: ever mods? mckayshirou: every* mckayshirou: i am gonna fix my crappy keyboard Santiago39_3: but i deleted the world folder Santiago39_3: and copied back the world.mt with enabled mods mckayshirou: are you sure? Santiago39_3: yes, i'll do it again Santiago39_3: it is happening again mckayshirou: it is better to send the world.mt so i can see what happens Santiago39_3: this is Santiago39_3: https://paste.debian.net/1201556/ Santiago39_3: tell me what to delete Santiago39_3: or disable mckayshirou: first line, set creative_mode = true mckayshirou: and try flyng or moving around mckayshirou: but everything is correct mckayshirou: i have no clue meldrian: aloha, need some kind of basic help, how do I merge the already built irrlichtMT with the dev version of minetest? It still says " Irrlicht found, but it is not IrrlichtMt" nisa: meldrian: delete the CMakeCache.txt file nisa: then rerun cmake meldrian: That doesn't make it. How do I set the -IRRLICHT_INLUDE_DIR and -IRRLICHT_LIBRARY in a proper way? y5nw: IIRC: cmake -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=path/to/irrlichtmt/include -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=path/to/libIrrlichtMt.a y5nw: (assuming Linux) meldrian: you're right, its an ubuntu. so after i've done the "cmake . -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=OFF && make -j$(nproc)" for irrlichtMT I link via *include and *library to */irrlicht/include and *irrlicht/lib/Linux, right? Pexin: I'd like a proper way to just put those in a file, rather than feed to cmake commandline meldrian: huh, it says "IRRLICHT_LIBRARY was set to /home/user/games/minetest-5.5.0-dev/irrlicht/lib/Linux/ but is not a valid library file. The path will not be used." meldrian: while 'irrlicht' is the dir i extracted and built irrlichtMT in Pexin: meldrian: lib is a file, not dir meldrian: awesome... my bad. y5nw: IRRLICHT_LIBRARY should be a path to the .a file (or .so for shared library) y5nw: IIRC it should be something like path/to/irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.a meldrian: "make" is on the run! thx everyone :) Extex: What update was depends.txt ect moved to mod.conf? Krock: 0.5.0-dev or so Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/71b2570f09 asterismo: my kid asks me if she can go to sleep to the bed or sit in a chair asterismo: is that function available? Krock: yes. beds can be crafted to sleep on them asterismo: and how do she sleeps in? asterismo: is there a key or command? asterismo: https://wiki.minetest.net/Simple_Bed sfan5: right-click should do it asterismo: great thanks wwar: Hmm.. on android version sneak+punch(leftclick) is not possible and some stuff need that to work 🤔 IhrFussel: It should work but requires a certain order...either first hold down the finger on the screen then hold down sneak or the other way around IhrFussel: That worked at least back in 0.4.17.1, maybe it broke since wwar: I know yes, in 0.4 the settings in android were different (they are waaay better after 5.0) but no now we can not use both ar10ch: Now that my game is past the 50% finished mark and my server is about 90% ready to release - I have 2 questions.. #1: does anyone have advice on hosting? I was thinking home-hosting but I dont yet understand DDNS and my router frequently drops out. Also - and perhaps more important, I use formspecs for a number of devices, but I'm quite anxious about security as I know nothing really. Any advice greatly appreciated. ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome rubenwardy: Contabo was the best VPS I found in my research rubenwardy: and netcup looks like a good virtual dedicated VPS ar10ch: ok thanks rubenwardy I'll look into those. Do I need a domain name to use them or is it a case of downloading software like with vpn's? rubenwardy: You don't need a domain name to host a Minetest server mckayshirou: it can be directly to external ip rubenwardy: it's a paid service, a VPS is a virtual computer in a data center rubenwardy: without a domain name, you'll use the raw IP address rubenwardy: it's advisable to get a domain name though Jonathon: not to mention anyone can get a free subdomain.minetest.land * mckayshirou: gets away rubenwardy: yeah: http://minetest.land/ rubenwardy: there's also a few other free domain names rubenwardy: but buying a domain name for yourself at least could be a good idea rubenwardy: I use ctf.rubenwardy.com for example mckayshirou: hey mckayshirou: what is the ctf channel ruben ar10ch: ok - minetest.land takes me to freedns (afraid.org) how does it recognise if my IP changed tho> mckayshirou: good question, is that case most servers use static ip's mckayshirou: you could set some sort of script to send a basic packet but in thqat case a vps is better ar10ch: my router IP changes regularly. A VPS would be a better option. mckayshirou: i mean , the external ip ar10ch: yeah my router out-facing IP changes often mckayshirou: then use vps, or you will need changing ip A LOT ar10ch: cool - thanks for the advice mckayshirou ar10ch: and rubenwardy, of course rubenwardy: ##minetest-ctf rubenwardy: mckayshirou: mckayshirou: thx rubenwardy: ar10ch: freedns and a VPS aren't mutually exclusive rubenwardy: minetest.land is a free domain name, you can use it with a VPS mckayshirou: yes rubenwardy: You want a dyndns domain name system if the IP changes rubenwardy: not sure if freedns allows that, probably does rubenwardy: but if you're paying for a VPS then a domain name isn't much more rubenwardy: or you can just use the VPS IP address ar10ch: ok - thank you very much for the advice :) Li0n: erlehmann: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/items/nodes_items_crafting.html#item-aliases Edgy11: does anyone know if windows binaries for ARM64 exist for minetest? Edgy1: f Calinou: Edgy1: not that I know of, you'd have to build your own Calinou: and possibly translate OpenGL to Direct3D if Windows on ARM doesn't do that Edgy1: o Edgy1: thanks erlehmann: does any mod exist that has structure blocks? erlehmann: i.e. nodes that you place and they turn into a configurable schematic immediately? entuland: if you need it to use schematic specifically, I don't know of any, but with my wesh mod I think it could be implemented fairly easily (but it uses its own storage format) specing: entuland: ongen saplings? specing: erlehmann:^ erlehmann: wesh mod? entuland: https://github.com/entuland/wesh entuland: it's also in the ContentDB entuland: with a few clicks, the canvas blocks of wesh already let you do what you asked for - you place one down, pick the build you want to rebuild, and rebuild it entuland: but it only rebuilds builds captured by wesh itself erlehmann: entuland interesting thx entuland: yw entuland: there is a big limitation in how wesh works cause it forces you to restart the world if you want to use the _miniatures_ of the builds you capture entuland: but just for capturing and rebuilding, you don't need any restart erlehmann: yeah right erlehmann: you erlehmann: can't actually generate nodes at runtime right? entuland: my main issue is that I can't write files to the mod folder at runtime entuland: but likely yes, you can't define nodes at runtime either erlehmann: you probably can erlehmann: but i bet it is highly frowned upon erlehmann: and breaks something important erlehmann: but, as they say, when you aim for the stars, sometimes you hit london! erlehmann: (and as i say: don't do it) entuland: the API says to only call register_node() at load time, so it's likely going to fail trying to do otherwise erlehmann: well, documentation always lies erlehmann: i mean erlehmann: that is not true erlehmann: but it is good to act like if it were erlehmann: just think of how cursed the map border is erlehmann: many ppl think there isn't anything beyond it! erlehmann: which, of course, is wrong erlehmann: there are a bunch of crashes beyond it ^^ entuland: luckily they're normally far enough :) IhrFussel: Any nodes you register during runtime (if that's even possible) will be unknown to clients IhrFussel: Though it sounds not too hard in my head to just handle it like with the new dynamic media...new clients could receive the new nodes right away and older ones need to relog to get them erlehmann: all nodes not in minetest.registered_nodes are unknown, right? erlehmann: (i am reviewing a crash concerning digging unknown nodes) Jonathon: Typical yes erlehmann: "typical" erlehmann: like Jonathon: Nodes registered at run time technically are in between erlehmann: is air in it? Jonathon: Air is not a unknown Jonathon: You can just say yes since people should be registering durning run time mckayshirou: #enigma_oxid mckayshirou: ah sorry mckayshirou: i won a mute, i think sfan5: nah entuland: well, I for one am happy for that message cause I knew about that game in the past and forgot about it mckayshirou: my father sayed that was a game for masoquists, now he is playing it entuland: crabs, sourceforge down mckayshirou: rrealy? sfan5: !title https://sourceforge.net/ MinetestBot: urllib.error.URLError: (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/urllib/request.py", line 1327, in do_open) rubenwardy: you'll just have to get your malware from ads like the rest of us MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop --videomodes, fullscreen_bpp and high_precision_fpu settings 13edf098d https://git.io/Jnn9W (152021-06-16T15:41:34Z) mckayshirou: i never ever got malware: reason: never executed binaries nor installed as root mckayshirou: There should be an option to specify the font size it first uses te WM scale, and then aplies the configuration one (tested to 5.3) entuland: ehheh entuland: it's not like all the stuff there is bad :P mckayshirou: When you connect, register your nickname and your channel and get started. It's a new world. We're so happy to welcome you and the millions of others. We will be posting more information in the coming days on our website and twitter. Otherwise, see you on the other side! mckayshirou: 2) After the past 3 years irc users got lesser than 1 million, 2)Freenode never used twitter 3) freenode will never be the same mckayshirou: i am exited to see the graphs in 6 months ShadowNinja: You mean this graph? https://netsplit.de/networks/history/top10_2021u.png rubenwardy: previous freenode had a twitter account for years rubenwardy: was even verified sfan5: and irc never had more than a million users mckayshirou: i never noticed a twitter account rubenwardy: https://twitter.com/freenodestaff rubenwardy: joined 2008 mckayshirou: huh mckayshirou: the matter is that is dry bone MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update translation files 1388bda3d https://git.io/Jncmt (152021-06-16T16:28:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update minetest.conf.example and dummy translation file 13cb5dd0d https://git.io/Jncmq (152021-06-16T16:27:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04snowyu -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Chinese (Simplified)) 13ce0541f https://git.io/JncmY (152021-06-16T16:23:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Panquesito7 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Spanish) 13165986b https://git.io/JncmO (152021-06-16T16:23:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04tirifto@posteo.cz -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Esperanto) 133474b97 https://git.io/Jncm3 (152021-06-16T16:23:10Z) wwar: Hmmm.. wwar: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/854774781937582122/Screenshot_2021-06-16-20-00-47.png wwar: Is this thing supposed to work in phone? sfan5: yes? mckayshirou: what? mckayshirou: it is minetest but only the minimal development test mckayshirou: in the lowe part of main menu you can switch the game mckayshirou: and it is supossed , looks very very well wwar: Ah, never knew that GNUHacker: devtest musnt be built-in game mckayshirou: GNUHacker, it is, because minetest-games is an added pack for playing wwar: > in the lowe part of main menu you can switch the game took this one from windows version wwar: it doesnt already exist in phone one i mean. mckayshirou: should be mckayshirou: can send screenshot of main menu? wwar: Well now i took it myself wwar: so it does exist but if i didnt take from windows it doesnt exist thee by default mckayshirou: i is always the default mckayshirou: it* wwar: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/854776093918887936/Screenshot_2021-06-16-20-38-28.png wwar: It is there for the first time mckayshirou: in that screen slect minetest game mckayshirou: in the lower left box wwar: I know yeah.. wwar: I mean it was always Minetest game only until i took the Devtest from windows mckayshirou: the devtest should work mckayshirou: the mods are he same sfan5: so what exactly are you asking about? wwar: Was wondering if these dev things always worked on phone version sfan5: sure wwar: Thats cool, thanks sfan5: it's just another minetest game after all mckayshirou: (afk) mckayshirou: (notice) Independant #56 is experimenting whit Host's ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/56 -- small error in builtin.lua mckayshirou: this bot is actually useful mckayshirou: There is a page about the lua api changes from 0.4.17 to 0.5.0 (5.0.0) mckayshirou: (read): are the mods and core compatibles? sfan5: yes mckayshirou: thanks, gonna stay on that until lua api changes sfan5: what mckayshirou: gonna stay on 4.17 mckayshirou: because lua api did not change sfan5: no it did change, it changes all the time sfan5: but that doesn't mean it's incompatible mckayshirou: i mean mckayshirou: the code is more than 1k lines long mckayshirou: so anything can happen mckayshirou: i used alot distinct functions sfan5: that's not a good indicator of whether it'll continue to work mckayshirou: that is the point IhrFussel: Most mods don't care about 0.4.X anymore and you'll be on your own there mckayshirou: WEll mckayshirou: Your server had 10 usrs in 0.4 now is empthy IhrFussel: FYI your version is almost 3 years old by now mckayshirou: Dark lands survival had 10, now no one cares mckayshirou: there are actually alot VERY FUN servers in 0.4 IhrFussel: My server was mostly in the top 3 back in 2016/2017 with much more than 10 users...at one point I counted over 1,000 DAILY users joining mckayshirou: whatever mckayshirou: now is empthy mckayshirou: also IhrFussel: And I was also one of the last server owners to switch to MT 5 ... I always hoped that someone would create an iOS app that works with MT 5 servers cause those were a huge part of my playerbase mckayshirou: most of these 1000 users were just bunch of kids willing to have fun for an hour mckayshirou: yeah mckayshirou: most mt players are 0.4 IhrFussel: The actual 'problem' is that Multicraft (the most popular iOS MT app) decided to make its code incompatible with regular MT IhrFussel: At least regarding the server side mckayshirou: well, as google does, the most popular rules, so people need to reconsider updating mckayshirou: a good example is youtube, works on every outdated navigator, and very well IhrFussel: I wanna run Minetest on my server and not Multicraft...and the only way to get 0.4.X users back would be to switch to that software instead mckayshirou: or maybe switch the server BACK TO 0.4.X mckayshirou: i dont see anything crucial new to 0.5 IhrFussel: That is not possible anymore...MT 5 added lots of features I took advantage of over the years mckayshirou: real example? luk3yx: MT 5.X has lots of security fixes, for examplehs players luk3yx: Oops IhrFussel: The ability to only load mobs on the map where you look at for example is a huge plus...it allows to keep my active_block_range low while not having mobs just pop up near the player luk3yx: For example players can't just take items from the inventory of other players easily mckayshirou: hmm i need to retraed because that is a huge plus, and also "taking items for another players inventory"? mckayshirou: also the lack of optimization of 0.5 can compensate that luk3yx: Hacked clients could take items from the inventories of other players luk3yx: It was fixed in some 5.X version IhrFussel: Something small: If you change the rotation of an entity in a mod it plays that rotation in a fluid motion client side mckayshirou: a mod can fix that luk3yx: Anyway mckayshirou: these* luk3yx: Actually a mod can't luk3yx: Because the required callbacks for a Lua patch to the inventory issue were added in 5.0 mckayshirou: what about reworking the inventory system mckayshirou: for example, on server side, is managed in a way luk3yx: Anyway why is this being argued about mckayshirou: lets end this mckayshirou: 0.5: Fixing lots of bugs, whot almost no users and too much changes mckayshirou: 0.4: lots of users who just are willing to have fun and do not necesarrily use hacked clients,, lots of bugs IhrFussel: Let's just say 5.X has quite a few features and many many security fixes over 0.4.X and it was always a no brainer for me to eventually switch to it...I just hoped I could take my entire playerbase with me mckayshirou: if they just did not changed the protocol sfan5: if you think too many changes are bad I can wholeheartedly suggest Minetest 0.3.1 mckayshirou: actually, i develop my base foor mods there luk3yx: Nice mckayshirou: and the switch to 0.4 mckayshirou: then* mckayshirou: sfan5 do you actually recommend something you use? mckayshirou: or you dont even care? sfan5: I don't use 0.3.1 because I have no problem with changes, if you mean that luk3yx: How do you find the 0.3 Lua API? mckayshirou: luk3yx : a long time ago i did not have the requeriments for 0.4 and then i just trial and error, then i built something usuable. IhrFussel: Btw my server got 7 users right now...not the same as 'empty' mckayshirou: huh you are lucky mckayshirou: [Away] IhrFussel: Since the 5.X userbase is much smaller the average a server can get is also just a fraction of what it used to be IhrFussel: There are also way more actively maintained servers now compared to a few years ago luk3yx: (Also s/Lua //) rubenwardy: 5.x has so many improvements over 0.4: GUI API features/fixes, 3d entity rotation, entity API improvements, in-menu mod/game installer, many security fixes rubenwardy: 5.5 will have new, fixed inputs, fixed fullscreen, and shadows rubenwardy: GUI API features include styling, fixed coordinate systems, and new elements such as scrolling panels and hypertext/richtext rubenwardy: Number of players matters less than the quality AntumDeluge: Does anyone else experience very bad jittering when attached/mounted to another entity? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_wLibiHDdI VanessaE: thought I'd take a few screenshots of the shadows: VanessaE: https://imgur.com/empnX7F.png ~~ https://imgur.com/itY19Ry.png ~~ https://imgur.com/4A0N9yZ.png ~~ https://imgur.com/0Vw8yJV.png VanessaE: FPS is choppy, very high dtime jitter, but damn it looks nice GreenXenith: One of the few times ive actually seen HDX texture packs look good 😛 :] VanessaE: :P VanessaE: https://imgur.com/7nrIb9w.png VanessaE: (the world isn't very old, and map was reset a few days ago, so not much worth taking pics of besides the flora) VanessaE: man Dreambuilder + HDX takes a fuckton of RAM :P VanessaE: (almost 8 GB) VanessaE: (fps jitter is high even with default textures, so don't blame HDX :P ) VanessaE: (as long as shadows are enabled) VanessaE: anyway I guess there was a post somewhere on the forum collecting screenshots to show-off the shadows. I submit all of the above as candidates :) VanessaE: (well the last one is pretty subtle, maybe not useful there) VanessaE: https://imgur.com/gmUlXT1.png wwar: Nice shadow i liked the 4th one VanessaE: yeah, that was "oh damn, I gotta grab a shot of that one!" ;) mckayshirou: [Back] VanessaE: (btw, HDX's sun image is a photo of the actual day star :) ) VanessaE: (with a simulated corona) mckayshirou: The 4th shadow looks a bit rare, degradations are not correct but counting it is a new feature mckayshirou: also cannot think about performance mckayshirou: but very good VanessaE: mckayshirou: yeah, the shadow feature is brand new, kinda buggy VanessaE: my shadow render distance was set to 350 in those images (with a regular view range is 150m or something) mckayshirou: it is like an emulated shadow rather than calculated mckayshirou: kinda high mckayshirou: relatively speaking: it is high only whit shadows VanessaE: "kinda high" what? mckayshirou: it is a very high shadow range since it is a brand new feature VanessaE: oh, no. that's actually the default for the "medium" preset VanessaE: though I've tweaked the various settings to my liking VanessaE: (the detailed settings that is) VanessaE: still the amount of draw calls kills my FPS enough without shadows as it is :P mckayshirou: yeah, very detaileds mckayshirou: whit the time they will tweak it VanessaE: https://imgur.com/AEqryu5.png VanessaE: those are my shadow settings used in the screenshots. mckayshirou: i thinks lowering the strengt would create less sharp shadows VanessaE: the strength is just the darkness. the soft shadow radius will change the sharpness VanessaE: I was aiming for settings that resemble what I'd see on a bright, sunny day where I live mckayshirou: that is why how looks mckayshirou: changing the default shadow setings should definitely change the looking VanessaE: oh changing settings works fine, and behaves as expected, but that don't work around the bugs in the feature or the way the whole thing behaves on my setup :) mckayshirou: shaders are already coming to enhance these shadows, good there is already a famework (the integrated shadows) mckayshirou: frame* erlehmann: ok so about the records. anyone knows a trick how to make the jukebox see the aliased item name? Jonathon: @Bastrabun you lately were dealing with itemstacks not properly aliased, any ideas ^? erlehmann: + local name = itemstack:get_name() erlehmann: + if mcl_jukebox.registered_records[name] then erlehmann: that is what happens there three: <- Bastrabun/AliasAlreadyTaken three: I didn't find a proper solution, since get_name() does return the "real" aka unaliased itemname Jonathon: wait, im stupid Jonathon: minetest.registered_aliases exists Jonathon: just use that Alias: Since items get "converted" when taken out of a chest, I solved the issue by replacing the items in the inventory of non-logged-in players on the database erlehmann: Alias that sounds a bit convoluted erlehmann: Alias could you point me to the “taken out of a chest” logic? Alias: I can't claim I understand the reasoning behind it. But it solved the problem. erlehmann: because erlehmann: 1. shulkers erlehmann: 2. everything else with an inventory erlehmann: 3. echests Jonathon: you could just search through minetest.registered_aliases, problem is the old node is the key, not the new one erlehmann: thx erlehmann: wait that is not a problem Jonathon: you want any item that is aliased to the correct one Jonathon: so i could have a1, a2, a3, a4 all aliased to z1 which your checking, so a1-5 should all work, but you cant look them up using a key erlehmann: what i think: i want to get the aliased name for an item, so 1. i get its name 2. i look for it in minetest.registered_aliases 3. if i do not find it there, i take it as it is. if i find it there, i take the value for the key? Alias: I do not have any engine knowledge. Next to everything that is implemented as detached inventory got their manual replacement as well, so those should be solved, too. erlehmann: uh erlehmann: i have to look into this Jonathon: a1-5 is the key, not z1, so you cant use a key of z1 to find a1-5 erlehmann: Jonathon, but that is the solution i think! erlehmann: i have music disks a1 and b1, b1 is the one that is checked by the jukebox, a1 does not play erlehmann: but a1 is aliased to b1 Jonathon: well yes, its a mater of do you want to flip the whole thing with a subtable or find a better way of doing it Jonathon: because you could run through all of registered_aliases and make it so z1 = {a1, a2, a3, a4, a5} erlehmann: honestly this whole renaming of items is a huge waste of time and i hope i don't encounter too much of it in the future erlehmann: Jonathon but what would *that* do? Jonathon: no, the engine should properly convert itemstacks like nodes erlehmann: i just want to know a version of itemstack:get_aliased_name() erlehmann: no, the engine should properly convert itemstacks like nodes erlehmann: what do you mean? Jonathon: erlehmann, flipping it would allow you to search by valid item key to get a table of all aliased stuff to check against erlehmann: yeah erlehmann: but i don't need that for *my* use case beanzilla: I have updated my code so it should be valid... I am ready for another review I guess. (2nd times the charm? No wait it's 3rd times the charm oh well) Jonathon: since minetest.registered_aliases is backwards of what you want erlehmann: Jonatho many thanks! erlehmann: Johnathon Jonathon: also, i mean the engine when you register a alias converts the node in the world, but not the itemstacks name Jonathon: oh wait, i have another idea erlehamann erlehmann: tell erlehmann: some of the best stories start that way Jonathon: since taking the item from a chest properly converts it, screw that, can be ignored. do a on join player call back that scans the players inv. so like if minetest.registered_aliases(player inv stack #) then convert stack end, thus meaning you dont need to do any stupidness of flipping minetest,registered_aliases, and you avoid having to make every single thing that checks items check aliases as well erlehmann: what is the performance penalty of that Jonathon: how big is mineclone2 inv? Jonathon: like 30 something slots? its just iterating through those slots once, and converting. vs running a check of all aliases in ever item that needs to compare item names Jonathon: id say this is cheaper than the last idea beanzilla: 36 slots, 2304 items exactly (If it's directly in same size as minecraft) Jonathon: items are irrelevant beanzilla: Right well then magic number 36. :P erlehmann: how do you get to 2304 items Jonathon: its a loop going over 36 slots, using a table key to check if it matches then convert beanzilla: 64 being max size (Assuming it's max) times 9 times 4 rows. Jonathon: so your doing operation x 36 times, oeration is is a key lookup, and then a itemstack swap if true beanzilla: But thats not important since your going by per slot. Jonathon: vs the old idea which was do hacky table filp, then look up on every item that needs to compare, etc Jonathon: doing it this way, any mods for mc2 wont need to compare as well erlehmann: uh its like 8 music discs erlehmann: renaming them in the first place was a bad idea Jonathon: no, the point of this is fixing the fact that the engine does properly adress existing itemstacks when a alias exists Jonathon: this way you never have this issue again when you need to convert the name of stuff erlehmann: yeah cool idea but i am a bit lazy Jonathon: this idea is less effort than the last one beanzilla: Get the main inventory of the player, go over each slot swap if needed done. Jonathon: this is literally what i said Jonathon: with less detail beanzilla: Yeah... And it's sad since I think that be what... 6 lines of lua at most... depending on all the checks for the swap. Jonathon: very cheap compared to a table swap Jonathon: and iteration on the new table that you created Jonathon: also, would require mods to implement extra checks themselves Jonathon: this current method the game does it all for them beanzilla: I don't want to sound rude or pushy but could you take a look at my mod again? (I just want some extra eyes looking over it again) Jonathon: i could, but im already was working on my game, then solving/giving ideas for erlehmann's problem, looking at a game that might cause a issue from #general, and i need to look at someones server for them. ill add it to the queue of stuff, who knows if ill get to it tonight beanzilla: Ok, no problem. (There is always later on) Again, I don't want to sound like I want to rush anyone. Jonathon: fine to annoy me to look at it, just saying i might not have time tonight Jonathon: there are other reviewers tho, look at users with editor or higher if you want it reviewed faster Emerald2: Who do I complain at to get rollback_check to give me useful data and not just air -> air a million times because somebody walked or flew there? XD beanzilla: When I meant later on, I meant like over 24 hours... or more like 48 hours. (Put it on the back burner, it's not that important... it's just a game, not real life) Jonathon: rollback is from the engine beanzilla: Sorry to sound like I was annoying you. Jonathon: and it shouldnt give you air air typically Jonathon: anyways, afk Emerald2: It gives me so much air to air I can't find out who dug the node I'm trying to find out about. beanzilla: Is that in a log file? (Just make some filter to filter that out, but it sounds like you shouldn't be getting air > air) Jonathon: no, database i think beanzilla: Like Sqlite? AntumDeluge: What sound do default:dirt_ nodes use for dig? I don't see it defined anywhere. default:dirt_with_grass definition: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/c96cc55/mods/default/nodes.lua#L456 default.node_sound_dirt_defaults function: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/c96cc55/mods/default/functions.lua#L26 beanzilla: L30 of the functions.lua looks like that. (dug == dig) beanzilla: If I am reading that correctly. AntumDeluge: I wondered about that beanzilla. But it doesn't look like that is the case to me, at least not in functions.lua. Perhaps that definition is somewhere else. beanzilla: In your provided nodes.lua at line 457 it only overrides the footstep sound effect, thus in functions.lua on line 30 it checks if dug/dig was defined, no, thus it assigns the other half of the or statement. beanzilla: If your looking for the actual sound file location its in the https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/sounds/ directory. AntumDeluge: I don't see dig anywhere on line 30, only dug. AntumDeluge: But I did figure out through trial & error. The sound is default_dig_crumbly. beanzilla: dig is equal to dug. It's the same action generally. AntumDeluge: Is that defined in the engine? dig = dig or dug? Something like that? beanzilla: That I do not know, It's only what I quickly gather from the links you've provided from the source. beanzilla: Just look at the other functions in functions.lua (I don't see any of them defining table.dig) Thus I assume dig is dug. beanzilla: Well take that back just saw at least one... hmm. beanzilla: It looks like some of them have dig and dug and some only have dug. * beanzilla: quits talking and leaves before he makes a mistake and gives wrong advice. (Or bad advice) Jonathon: beanzilla: you wrote all the code correct? beanzilla: Some of it I did yes. Think of some of it as a template, then I modified/added to that. (Unless that disqualifies it) Jonathon: where did you get the other code from? beanzilla: From default the locked chest... but a good portion of it has been modified. beanzilla: I.E. Normal locked chest can not be picked up when there is an item, mine doesn't care. Jonathon: well, let me see beanzilla: https://github.com/Beanzilla/item_generator/blob/master/register.lua#L7 This is a normal locked chest + my timer and my changes to how it behaves. Jonathon: im going to say that yours follows default as a guide, rather than using code from it Jonathon: thus meaning your license is ok Jonathon: if you had directly copied functions or blocks of code from default you would need to use lgplv2 or compatible Jonathon: anyways, approved beanzilla: So if I use the chest API default provides in my code thats still fine right? beanzilla: I just use it rather than defining all that myself. Jonathon: using a api is fine, copying it is not(without using a compatible license) Jonathon: also disclaimer not a lawyer beanzilla: Thank you, and sorry for annoying you about this. (Just my first time doing this, that's all) Jonathon: no bother, everyone has there first time beanzilla: So would it be any better if I just switched the license over to the same as defaults license? (Rather to a compatible one) beanzilla: Just to play it safe? Jonathon: should be fine, i think as it is beanzilla: Anywho, I guess I am off for the night, bye and thank you again for the help. Jonathon: np, night lumidify: Hi, would it be possible for someone with access to the wiki to change https://wiki.minetest.net/Games/Lord_of_the_Test and https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC to point to #lordofthetest on libera instead of freenode? Not much is happening there these days, but it would still be good if people were sent to the correct channel. lumidify: Proof that the channel has moved: https://github.com/minetest-LOTR/Lord-of-the-Test/commit/50d5dc76710528e6e1818bd9f030e8232b60660e sfan5: done lumidify: Thanks :) Swift110-mobile_: sup basxto: https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC why is mineclone crossed through? did it not move? sfan5: dunno sfan5: does the channel even exist here? celeron55: did it exist before the move? erlehmann: #mineclone2 existed on freenode and exists on libera chat erlehmann: but erlehmann: the new dev team prefers discord erlehmann: so you won't find the devs in #mineclone2 erlehmann: i have an opinion on having discord as the primary dev chat, you can probably guess it :P erlehmann: i correct myself, Fleckenstein sometimes showed up erlehmann: but definitely no dev idles there rn erlehmann: basxto you can come to #mineclonia if you want to, but i think in any case most stuff makes sense to be on the bug tracker erlehmann: i mean, issue tracker erlehmann: there it is publicly accessible erlehmann: and discussions can happen even if not everyone is online all the time basxto: ah okay basxto: yeah, I remembered seeing him there basxto: though the general room is bridged to matrix it least dzho: the cool thing about matrix compared to most other bridges is you can see which accounts on the matrix-side are participating, even from the IRC side entuland: okay, the spacebar works Ingar: that's not certain, he might have tpyed ALT+32 entuland: you have a point :P could have as well copypasted :P independent56: can you check my home-labbed paste works correctly? http://2.26.38.198/pastebin/test.txt independent56: yeah... that happens. 10 second outages. entuland: nice entuland: "please let us know if you didn't receive this message" independent56: i know... i was looking at an old html website i made, then saw that i linked to a .txt file, then i thought "manual pastebin!" independent56: its mainly a joke i wanted to make independent56: could you quickly make a paste on my service to test it? independent56: http://2.26.38.198/stikked/Stikked/htdocs/ j45: http://2.26.38.198/stikked/Stikked/htdocs/view/750ae33b independent56: thx independent56: yay it works! j45: Np, happy to help Conrad: Well freenode has gone completely batshit Conrad: https://pastebin.com/CeSQwB2D Conrad: Thank you for using freenode, and Hello World, from the future. freenode is IRC. freenode is FOSS. freenode is freedom. mmuller: lol. "War is peace, freedom is slavery..." Conrad: I lost op, everybody was kicked, and my channel was deregistered Conrad: Time to make the full switch to Libera. Hawk777: I managed to have my nickname removed from nickserv, without notification, despite it having been registered for years. I tried reregistering, but they haven’t sent the confirmation e-mail, so I suppose the reregistration attempt will expire in 24 hours. Jonathon: i mean, if you still are with freenode for some reason, why bother to reset up if you can just move to libera 🤷‍♂️ Conrad: Jonathan: The only reason why I didn't switch my channel to Libera was because I was frankly too lazy to bother switching my IRC bridge over and since I still had several users logged in, I figured switching at this time wasn't worth it. But now I know, it is. Conrad: I figured so long as the switchover didn't interfere with my channels operations, it would be fine. Hawk777: I’m not “with freenode”, I just haven’t bothered to check whether any of my channels are still on Freenode or whether they’ve all moved. Conrad: So much for the "effortless change" Conrad: They promised "that nothing would change" sfan5: did they? Conrad: Well their website has changed. But when the whole thing about it changing hands first came out, there was an annoucement on their website promising that nothing would change and freenode would be completely unaffected by this change. rubenwardy: They also promised that the management of Freenode would be separate from Freenode LTD, and the LTD only for running the conference rubenwardy: but that went down the drain CWz: i think the reason that the freenode severs changed to the new ones was to implement new policies or something rubenwardy: wiping all the users and accounts was a student decision though CWz: ? rubenwardy: freenode has wiped all the users accounts and channels rubenwardy: their policies have been shown to be user hostile as well mmuller: I'm honestly perplexed at WTF they're thinking. They're every move almost seems calculated to enrage their remaining user base. rubenwardy: https://isfreenodedeadyet.com/ CWz: Wouldn't be suprised if they sold data CWz: or the data been stolen celeron55: my viewpoint: this is lee's first fair move rubenwardy: their incompetence did lead to a data leak. They managed to unreserve nickserv, which resulted in bots stealling user passwords and emails AntumDeluge: Thanks @wsor. I thought my sounds package might raise some eyebrows & was willing to change the name. But I figured it might be alright since I didn't find any other mods using the technical name. mckayshirou: Woooow Jonathon: frankly I thought the short description might need to be changed, but decided it was fine AntumDeluge: What would be better? Something like "A library for reading & writing mod data in the world directory"? Jonathon: you called it a sounds library or something like that, and its just sounds from mtg ported to there own mod AntumDeluge: Yes, it's a library because it has an API (just like default). Basically a replacement for MTG/default sounds methods. AntumDeluge: At least, I would consider that a library. Maybe I'm wrong though. mckayshirou: do you guys mean "writing a mod in world data, so i can mode the world whit these own mods?" like servers do? AntumDeluge: I just realized I was looking at the wrong mod when I said "A library for reading & writing mod data in the world directory". That is the description for a different submission. Sorry. AntumDeluge: I have a problem with trying to multitask... and I'm not good at it. AntumDeluge: We were talking about https://content.minetest.net/packages/AntumDeluge/sounds/. It simply adds some methods for adding sounds to nodes, like is done in default. And I copied all the sounds from default. AntumDeluge: When I was talking about "world data", I was mistakingly referring to https://content.minetest.net/packages/AntumDeluge/wdata/. I a mod that handles reading/writing data to the world directory, much like StorageRef. AntumDeluge: If I understand your question though, my understanding is that mods can be added to /worldmods. These are mods that are dedicated to that world only. mckayshirou: Yeah AntumDeluge: But I've never done that myself. AntumDeluge: I've just been told that it can be done. mckayshirou: the servers do that mckayshirou: so is theorically possible independent56: http://2.26.38.198/Stikked/htdocs/view/55475579 independent56: almost ready for wordpress. what do you think? mckayshirou: checkig entuland: what do you mean with "ready for wordpress"? MinetestBot: luizsabino: Jun-10 09:13 UTC you can use MinetestBot to check your server, run this without quotes in this channel or /msg Minetest bot directly: "!up your_public_ip_or_domain:30000" (suggested by sfan5) entuland: good bot! entuland: !cookie entuland: :P luizsabino: Hello. I was here a few days ago asking help to make a server at my pc. Thank you for all! I get, the trouble was at the ISP, I called them and they change the IP entuland: glad you found the culprit and sorted it out luizsabino: Now, I thinking about really to host a server. Wich do you recommend? a VPS server? mckayshirou: anything even if it is a crap, can hold a minetest server mckayshirou: unless you run alot mods mckayshirou: obviousle need public ip open port etc etc luizsabino: I'll get a root acess and dedicated ip, it's enough, no? mckayshirou: yeah luizsabino: now I'm executing 19 mods, it's too much? mckayshirou: well, depends on computer specs entuland: and on what the mods are doing mckayshirou: and amount of players luizsabino: entuland homedecor, moreblocks, moreores.... mese, technic, digilines.... mckayshirou: Any potato can hold that mckayshirou: it is not too much luizsabino: @ent luizsabino: entuland teaching, digilines,technic,worldedit,travelnet,plantlife_modpack, pipeworks, mesecons, tubelib2, techpack, simple_skins, protector,homedecor_modpack unifieddyes, basic_materials, moreblocks,moreores,moretrees,biome_lib AntumDeluge: Why can I not revoke privs? /privs UncleDaddy Privileges of UncleDaddy: server, simple_protection, shout, privs, password, basic_privs, debug, kick, monoid_master, ban /revoke UncleDaddy ban Privileges of UncleDaddy: server simple_protection shout privs password basic_privs debug kick monoid_master ban luizsabino: mckayshirou I'll use with my students, so I guess about max 50 mckayshirou: no clue, always works mckayshirou: Hmm fro that 4Gb ram and a Dual 2.50Ghz is NEEDED luizsabino: to restrict access just them can I set a password default? mckayshirou: nope sfan5: installing a whitelisting mod is usually a better alternative mckayshirou: yeah mckayshirou: i were recommending that, but it is easier sfan5: @AntumDeluge if your nick matches what's set in "name" in the config then you cannot revoke certain privs AntumDeluge: Okay, that would seem to be the problem then: name = UncleDaddy luizsabino: mckayshirou the VPS with little price is 1GB RAM, 2.6 GHZ (1 core) and SSD 20GB AntumDeluge: Thanks sfan5. mckayshirou: well luizsabino hope for the best, but if cannot hold it try removing homedecor_modpack entuland: honestly not experienced enough to be able to tell about your mod list, your players count and in particular your specs, but that 1GB RAM seems low mckayshirou: specially for 50 players luizsabino: sfan5 thank you, I'll see the whitelist mod luizsabino: entuland and mckayshirou the VPS doesn't run graphic mode and with SSD ... can't stand it? mckayshirou: if they were not too much players, but only running the core can hold it luizsabino: my notebook, runs Ryzen 5 8GB and SSD too, I played with them with the server, my graphic mode and Meet call and OBS recording screen mckayshirou: also some heavy mods may take lot of time to the users to download the media Hawk777: You could use the HTTP media server thingy to improve that. luizsabino: I understand, cliente side mckayshirou: the problem is not the client, is the server, poor hardware on host Hawk777: Either host the media yourself in a faster location, or I think there was a central collective thing. luizsabino: Hawk777 I don't how luizsabino: is there some reference Hawk777: Do a web search for minetest media server. specing: luizsabino: if this is for a LAN, then it's best to have the server on a desktop PC in the same network. Network lag is going to be minimal Hawk777: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18951 is the shared public one that anyone can use. specing: luizsabino: get as fast of a processor as you can, mt is mostly singlethreaded mckayshirou: well, we asummed was something like a virtual class specing: ah specing: makes sense tbh luizsabino: sorry luizsabino: yes, a virtual classroom mckayshirou: Well, try to stick to a good processor, the disk does not matter, and try removing heavy mods like "homedecor_modpack" luizsabino: I was trying with server host at my laptop, but my students do not like so much because just playing at class time mckayshirou: well your laptop is ten times more powerfull than the vps, try using it, it's the best option mckayshirou: [Away] luizsabino: yes, I guess very expansive that vps jonadab: Just make sure the OS is something with a decent virtual memory layer. Linux by preference. Under NO circumstances attempt to run a Minetest server on Win10. jonadab: I learned that the hard way. Win10 laptop in the same room, has worse lag than a server on another continent. Jordach: lemme guess it's a $200 laptop jonadab: Pretty sure the issue was swapping. jonadab: Which Ten handles exceptionally badly. Jordach: swap doesn't affect anything if it's flash storage Jordach: if it's a spinning disk Jordach: you only have yourself to blame mckayshirou: Yeah it is a 200$ laptop " (18:40:12) luizsabino: my notebook, runs Ryzen 5 8GB and SSD too, I played with them with the server, my graphic mode and Meet call and OBS recording screen " mckayshirou: Jordach, but if there is almost no ram swap is necesarry jonadab: Yes, but which OS you use can have a very LARGE impact on how *much* swapping happens. jonadab: Due to choices it makes about what to swap out when. mckayshirou: i use debian 6 it is enoug? jonadab: Linux handles that well, yes. Jordach: W10 only swaps horribly when system memory is below 8GB Jonathon: ironically minetest runs better on wsl than windows itself Jordach: for the most part jonadab: Makes good choices about what to swap out. Jordach: basically dirt cheap laptops aren't worth it for anything mckayshirou: "dirt" mckayshirou: my laptop is dirt whit mese block jonadab: Yes, if it was really cheap, he'd have said cobblestone cheap :-) luizsabino: Yes, I'm on Ubuntu 21.04 luizsabino: The VPS that I saw ubuntu too luizsabino: but hey my notebook it's more then 200$ hahahaha I'm on Brazil mckayshirou: Ubunto is "xtremely++ Slow" luizsabino: '=D I'm on Kubuntu mckayshirou: *sCream!!* luizsabino: but I didn't find more problems luizsabino: '=D :') independent56: all my "players" are just visitors, looking at the map (and in one case, attempting to place cobble inprotected areas) independent56: i hope one day, i wont just get visitors, and instead, a proper player. just like my playership with tunnler's abyss, building because "why not?". independent56: and maybe i shouldnt creep out my players by flying, staring at those who play on my server. independent56: just a thought definitely_a: Are you Minecraft veterans playing Mineclone2 or Mineclonia? The latter seems to have more level headed project leaders overall. definitely_a: I checked the issues on Mineclone2 git and oh my, was it a great shism... ,:( definitely_a: schism* definitely_a: &local=true definitely_a: woops independent56: how's my imposter syndrome? dont even ask http://2.26.38.198/wordpress/2021/06/13/i-am-i-am-not/ pls help me entuland: if you really are 14 years old I guess you should just take it easy and don't stress yourself out over such dilemmas entuland: just enjoy what you do and if you feel like it, put effort at getting better at it entuland: mind you, that stands even if you're 56 years old entuland: I'm 42 years old and I have never bothered even attempting multithreaded programming entuland: there is no such thing as a binary "true/false programmer" - world is nuanced entuland: world / life / whatever y5nw: reality entuland: that one, yes :) celeron55: if you're 14 years old, look at other people who are 14 years old celeron55: you're ways ahead if you just know what programming is celeron55: no need to stress about it celeron55: same thing for system administration celeron55: continue the hobby in any amount and you'll still be ahead after 10 years Benrob0329: Or don't look at other people who are 14, some people move at their own pace. I remember wanting to have my fair share of megaprojects when I was a teen, come to find out megaprojects kinda suck IMO. celeron55: what even is a megaproject Benrob0329: Some big endeavor that is expected to take anywhere from years to your entire career to complete, often with the intention of becoming popular enough to support its own development. sfan5: something bigger than a project but clearly smaller than a hyperproject specing: you'll be ahead after 10 years, but others will be ahead in social matters celeron55: that's true, i would recommend the social things also Benrob0329: Honestly I didn't really do much with programming until my later teens, that's when I started having (slightly) smaller ideas and seeing problems to fix rather than fixes without a problem. Benrob0329: Started to, anyways celeron55: not to sound super depressing, but it's annoying to try climbing out of loneliness at 25. definitely don't set yourself up for that challenge specing: and if you are too ahead of everyone, you'll become a friendless social outcast Benrob0329: I mean, some people like being a hermit, but most don't. Benrob0329: Finding spaces outside of the internet can also help, such as a local Maker's Space, Hacker's Space, or User's Group celeron55: specing: not necessarily if you don't build your entire persona around it rubenwardy: university is also great for making friends rubenwardy: the recipe just requires adding alcohol Benrob0329: and making debt /s celeron55: it's also great for not making friends specing: celeron55: it's hard to socialise if you use things that noone else is using, and other people using things that you are not using rubenwardy: in the UK, it's more like tax. It's paid as a % of my earnings over a threshold celeron55: specing: -> also use things other people are using Benrob0329: Ruben: Interesting rubenwardy: If you earn less than £22k, you don't need to pay anything. It's a certain percentage of your earnings over 21k, just like any other tax specing: celeron55: yeah, no. My dislike of windows/facebook/msn/discord/etc has not changed since primary school rubenwardy: Yeah, Facebook is a definite requirement for a social life at university specing: seemed so, yeah. I was out of everything rubenwardy: all the events are organised through it specing: yep rubenwardy: There's a point where you need to weigh up the limited loss of privacy with your own happiness specing: Thing is, I am happier without it (other than not having a social life, but you get used to it) celeron55: ah, always so lovely when a megacorporation basically owns people rubenwardy: you can probably make do without it if you have good connections with flatmates and such, and if you campaign the uni to list events on their own website Benrob0329: I had Facebook for a year, then decided it was best left alone. celeron55: i have a false throwaway facebook account for reading private groups, but i never post anything and never represent myself there Benrob0329: Was probably a year too long tbh- celeron55: i had an actual account in 2007 or so, for a year or two specing: rubenwardy: the events I attended were all published in uni mailing list. There were also many that were facebook only, or required registration there specing: which I obviously did not attend rubenwardy: anyway, it's hard to make friends after university. Uni has the benefit of lots of different people, alcohol, and a general friend making attitude - everyone is away from home and doesn't know anyone rubenwardy: but after that, you tend to have work colleagues, any groups you go to, and friends of friends specing: rubenwardy: most my classmates weren't away from home. We don't have campus-style unis that are common in usa rubenwardy: Our uni was a city university not a campus university, most people were still away from home though specing: Alcohol is also no-go. It messed with your self-control. I also hold that if you need alcohol to befriend someone, you shouldn't befriend them anyway rubenwardy: you don't need it, but it helps rubenwardy: there are non-alcohol events too - board game nights, cafe crawls, etc. It's just an excuse to do something Benrob0329: Funny thing about this community is that for many people (myself included) this was pretty much our wider friend group, and for some it might be their main friend group. Of course, the community was more centralized on IRC at the time and -hub/-chat was at it's most active point during 2015-2018 AFAIK. independent56: celeron55, haha yeah. im only looking at those teenagers online who have already made a huge/contributed a lot to an advanced program. i fail to see all the students in school who prioritise "spending time with "mates"" more then programing in a cold, dark room, staring into a dark room. independent56: and the teachers dont understand whatever i say about programming. any sentence i say will most;y go over their heads. i should use less jargon, and more simple words. but anything to make me look smarter. rubenwardy: pretty much all students in a school prioritise spending time with mates over programming in cold dark rooms Benrob0329: Have you tried programming in a warm, well lit room? rubenwardy: communication is a two-way street, you need to communicate well for people to understand. Code switching is important for that, don't talk to non-technical people the same you would with programmers rubenwardy: and yeah, generally a good idea :D rubenwardy: My plants prefer when I program in a warm well lit room entuland: independent56, trying and make yourself look smarter isn't... smart independent56: XD yeah. i shouldnt say "i am operating a self-hosted webserver using XAMPP, public IPs and port forwarding". is hould just say "i made a self-hosted website" but the first makes me look smrt, so i use it independent56: and the teacher's confused expression is worth it Benrob0329: Oh man, I'm starting to think of 2015 like it's my own 1995...I don't like this celeron55: you need to have a with mates mode and a programmer mode just like people who work as programmers, if you're so far into programming even your teachers don't keep up entuland: even that one may be avoided unless you're queried about what you are doing or what you can do rubenwardy: anyone that knows their shit will know you're talking shit entuland: that is, just don't brag around, that'll be a great starting point rubenwardy: public IPs and port forwarding? .....you're hosting at home? Benrob0329: ^ rubenwardy: I guess by self-hosted you mean literally home labbed rather than managing the hosting yourself Krock: if I pay for a VPS and set up a website, is it self-hosted? rubenwardy: I'd say yes rubenwardy: Ie: I have a self-hosted instance of Weblate on a VPS independent56: yes, mum wont buy me a VPS, so i made a PS at hoem XD Benrob0329: Self-hosted usually means not managed by another company, so while the VPS isn't self hosted your website on a VPS would be. celeron55: it's self-hosted if you're the one to call when it breaks rubenwardy: I'd say self-hosted is in terms of software management, and home labbing is in terms of hardware management Krock: for a website you don't even need a VPS independent56: just some webserver rubenwardy: ah yeah good point ben rubenwardy: nope, you can use a CDN like GitHub pages rubenwardy: there are webservers but you don't need to know about them celeron55: calling github pages self-hosted seems stretching it rubenwardy: until the fastly outage happens rubenwardy: github pages isn't self-hosting rubenwardy: you're not managing software or hardware Benrob0329: That being said, self-hosting has advantages and I encourage using the opportunity to learn. independent56: what should i call it instead? independent56: self-self-hosting? celeron55: when you're a kid, of course you self host out of your bedroom closet celeron55: that's how you learn celeron55: you don't learn otherwise rubenwardy: the term for hosting stuff at home is called home labing independent56: ah thanks Benrob0329: I was never allowed to host out of my closet, otherwise I definitely would have had a Raspberry Pi website up years ago :P rubenwardy: when I was 15, I bricked my parents router by trying to portforward independent56: i wish i had a closet to home-lab from. but i dont. i have to use some table, like some dork independent56: i once changed the router's name, and disconnected EVERYONE XD Benrob0329: Having a proper space makes you a dork? rubenwardy: I managed to turn off the web admin portal and also the internet conenction y5nw: I did not host from my closet because of security considerations/Internet censorship rubenwardy: I fixed it by connecting with an ethernet cable and using telnet to reenable the web admin portal y5nw: rubenwardy: oof independent56: that must hurt. a lesson: do not touch live wires, they could bite back (dont touch a working webserve,r you may break it, like i did, or a router, like you did) y5nw: In the area I lived in the ISP apparently blocked ports unless you write to them to not block the ports (which I didn't want to do to avoid some lengthy discussion with my parents) y5nw: independent56: don't touch the apartment you live in or it will collapse :P independent56: XD rubenwardy: I didn't touch live wires? rubenwardy: Is that an idiom? independent56: live wires being a metaphor for anything people rely on, and is working like a router, or XAMPP server y5nw: also it should be fine to touch jump wires ... in most cases independent56: the only communication i had to have with my mum was about the webserver - do not unplug or touch it. let it sit and breathe my bedroom air! beanzilla: How long does it normally take for a mod to be approved on ContentDB? independent56: it took 2 days for me Jonathon: Depends how active staff are Jonathon: Which is very inactive Jonathon: Whats your mod? beanzilla: item_generator Jonathon: Please hold beanzilla: I'm not in a rush anyway. beanzilla: I don't even know if it's valid or not. (I use parts of the default Minetest MTG game, and parts from another mod I was helping the author on) independent56: as long as it adds to the MT modding community, its fine. my mod was literally a handful of mods put into a big blender XD beanzilla: Oh, ok... well then I should be fine then. independent56: imo Jonathon: Your license is incorrect beanzilla: Figured that. Jonathon: Your using a model and texture from mtg Jonathon: Default which is lgplv2 Jonathon: You could depend on default and remove that material thus being mit y5nw: independent56: if I really thought about hosting a web server from my computer back then I would have to talk to my parents on Internet censorship/safety, physical safety considerations, the fact that I was going to Germany soon (-ish at the time), and possibly letting the ISP at the time acknowledge Jonathon: Or change it to lgplv2 y5nw: Maybe make license exceptions? I have seen a few mods do that already beanzilla: Ah, ok... well I will fix it then... what about code wise? I essentially use my own "chest" concept which is directly from Minetest? beanzilla: And when I say "fix" I mean instead of just having the model and textture I just use the default instead. y5nw: It should be fine if the "concept" does not involve copying code IMO Jonathon: ^ Jonathon: Using a api is fine, copying the code that makes the api is not Jonathon: (Unless you are using a compatable license) beanzilla: Ah, ok... so then I guess this was a fail then.... Yeah... exactly... oops. (Well I added it in because I was thinking of adding MineClone2 support, but I might as well since I have decided not to to go back the the old way) celeron55: https://i.imgflip.com/5d8nr9.jpg beanzilla: So it would be fine if I used the default's api? Jonathon: Yes beanzilla: And the default's texture and models? Jonathon: Yes beanzilla: Ok... well I guess I will strip the un-necessary stuff out since I only added for MineClone2 beanzilla: Which I have change my mind on to begin with. :P Jonathon: You could optionally depend on default and mc2 whatever, and then structure your mod to error if neither is found beanzilla: I was thinking of doing it that way... but I'd need to interpret the mc2 chest to see how it works internally so I can add the same concept there. Jonathon: Yeah beanzilla: I've removed the models, textures, and sounds directory on the repo... but I have something else to do IRL right now so I will finish it a bit later. (Obviously now the code will fail, till I update the code) beanzilla: Thank you for the valuable information on what is valid and not. (Didn't even think about that stuff) independent56: you will find the information sold in a local tesco, given that it is so valuble Jonathon: Sure, will be busy for a while anyways AntumDeluge: Requesting a review for my PR "Allow setting nick for favorite servers in client": https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11202 Li0n: beanzilla: may I suggest using Mineclonia instead of Mineclone2? mcl2 is currently facing a significant loss of quality and playability, causing servers to switch to alternatives one by one sfan5: does it still identify itself as mcl2? I don't see a single mineclonia server on the list sfan5: oh one actually AristotIe: is there a place where I can change how often water updates/flows specing: yeah, abm rate independent56: why did minetest choose the port 30 K specifically? is it because the devs wer elike "fuck it, i like this port, its round, fuck it!" Jonathon: Because its outside the range other services use Jonathon: I think ar10ch: Can anyone help with mobs(_redo) ? I can't figure out how I can get the mob to check its surroundings (objects_inside_radius) repeatedly, on timer, instead of using a node/node_timer ? calcul0n_: ar10ch, with entity:on_step handler ? independent56: i have a max lag of 12. fucking hell! independent56: someone needs to make a reitcher scale, but for max_lag. independent56: anyways, question - in luacontrollers, how do i get the max_lag value? ar10ch: ah ok, thanks Calcul0n I'll give that a try IhrFussel: I'm pretty sure that luacontrollers don't have access to that info Jonathon: you cant get max_lag without parsing /status independent56: oh Jonathon: there isnt even a api method for it independent56: well goodnight, eyelids want to crash down specing: There's a mod to add a digiline lag something something Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11077#issuecomment-817931472 independent56: vodafone mobile data down in my location. meh ghoti: Is there a mod which will change body and head position when a player sneaks, sort of the way that commercial voxel engine does it? specing: ghoti: I think you'll lean forward when sneaking in mineclone specing: try it on clamity anarchy ghoti: Hmm, but that wouldn't be visible to other players not running mineclone, would it? Jonathon: fly and swim for 3d armor has a sneak animation in the model, not sure if it supports it specing: ghoti: it's visible. Mineclone is a server-side game erlehmann: sfan5 just to show how broken mineclone2 is currently (master & production branches), while backporting the mcl_jukebox API to mineclonia we just figured out that the refactorig never worked correctly and broke all existing music records https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/issues/82#issuecomment-24433 erlehmann: so anyone who upgrades from mineclone2 0.71 to a hypothetical future version would have music records that are simply not accepted by the jukebox luk3yx: Could you tell the MineClone2 people about your findings so they can fix it? erlehmann: i have stopped doing that months ago when i got insults as answers for my suggestions to have mandatory code review erlehmann: also fleckenstein is aware of mineclonia and will see it eventually erlehmann: i do not believe mineclone2 is salvageable at this point, except for carefully cherry-picking commits erlehmann: and honestly, i got a conflict in the farming mod while cherry-picking mcl_jukebox changes Jonathon: development of mineclonia seems very slow, and just a filtered backport of mineclone2, not that much it does itself and its not on cdb erlehmann: > filtered backport of mineclone2 erlehmann: yes that erlehmann: plus some other things erlehmann: but honestly what do you want erlehmann: mineclone2 has cool stuff, but you just need to look at kay27 server to see where "lets merge all the cool features" leads erlehmann: that server crashes every full hour like clockwork. and often in between. Jonathon: i mean, if your just going copy mineclone2, why should i use yours over theres? Jonathon: personally, looking at both, there both dumpster fires Jonathon: if your just going to filter upstream, as luk3yx said, seems better to contribute upstream erlehmann: Jonathon clamity did and got from "laggy, barely playable" to "minetest goes brrrrrrr" erlehmann: Jonathon look at the mineclone2 issue tracker. i am sure about 15 minutes with it will convince you that it is a dumpster fire. Jonathon: if i recall correct they run master, and not releases erlehmann: there are no releases since 0.71, which was already full of gamebreaking bugs the mineclone2 team post-wuzzy-involvement did not notice erlehmann: for example, minecarts going off the rails if you pressed left or right Jonathon: as i stated, both versions are dumpster fires erlehmann: or quartz and nether wart not generating at all Jonathon: and if you want to fix yours, eventually you will probably be different enough you wont be able to backport/cherrypick changes Jonathon: *with git erlehmann: well mineclonia is based on the last playable version of mineclone2 erlehmann: playable as in "a few bugfixes away from good" Jonathon: anyways, did you look into my suggested idea for fixing mods that need to depend on "mesecons" redstone? erlehmann: yes but i did not understand it erlehmann: Jonathon for contributing stuff to upstream, i tried that several times. one time, for example, i contributed a patch for the crash that happened if you pressed a button at the map border. Jonathon: yeah, i noticed that erlehmann: instead of that fix, something that made buttons at the map border explode if you pressed them was committed first erlehmann: which introduces 2 more ways to crash the game lol Jonathon: more like they messed up with git and you through a fit over it erlehmann: no? erlehmann: then the developer i had reported it to, jordan, crashed clamity server repeatedly and bragged about it on youtube erlehmann: or somethign erlehmann: look i know jordan won't do that anymore Jonathon: i mean clamity is "anarchy" so anything is free game erlehmann: but don't tell me i should contribute to a hostile upstream erlehmann: i think crashing the server is generally frowned upon erlehmann: the point is it was not helpful Jonathon: whatever, anyways, ill dm you about my idea if your not busy? erlehmann: some other change from me contained a bug that made banners not craftable erlehmann: but instead of reviewing it i was ridiculed for submitting it as plaintext erlehmann: so it was merged to mineclone2 and then banners are STILL not craftable to this day erlehmann: as far as i am aware) erlehmann: ( erlehmann: argl Jonathon: yeah, yeah, anyways, mind if i dm ya? or got other things to attend to erlehmann: yeah dm me erlehmann: but stop suggesting to contribute to a hostile upstream erlehmann: i do not actually think they want to be "hostile" but it does not matter erlehmann: it is frustrating to backport even the simplest things specing: lol @ exploding buttons erlehmann: specing oh i bet it was funny for jordan! erlehmann: but think about what happens if you manage to chain the explosions erlehmann: at some point you overflow the stack luk3yx: I feel like Minetest has become a drama magnet luk3yx: Many Minetest-related projects suffer from lots of controversy and drama erlehmann: nah erlehmann: not true luk3yx: Even my statement about it is full of controversy erlehmann: those who really have drama simply do not survive long erlehmann: i am just ranting right now because i am very frustrated with what should be a simple cherry-pick of 2 commits. it turned out to be a multi-hour "oh wait this code never worked" thing. luk3yx: Can't everyone just have fun luk3yx: And not argue erlehmann: no erlehmann: i live in germany, fun is verboten rubenwardy: people are complicated, that'll never happen specing: erlehmann: haha, so true Jonathon: as long as people have different viewpoints, arguments will happen Jonathon: civil arguments are fine erlehmann: well i was called a terrorist for suggesting code reviews. guess i shouldn't have done that! erlehmann: also i like arguing too, but it's tiring erlehmann: and it should go somewhere erlehmann: pointless bickering is for those two muppets that sit on the balcony, i forgot their names independent56: is there like this big list of digiline projects for me to work through? i want to see where i stand in terms of knoladge erlehmann: this also means that no one can depend on mesecons safely now at all erlehmann: Jonathon that is wrong erlehmann: you will always depend on the proper mesecons erlehmann: not the mcl2/mineclonia version erlehmann: Jonathon i guess what it means is that you can not depend on mesecons inside a subgame from outside a subgame (which is what the reform mod is doing) erlehmann: but then again the reform mod needs the mcl2/mineclonia dyes, so it actually depends on the whole subgame independent56: i am reading over a minecraft book mum gave me... and wow, buildcraft stole pipeworks. not happy. grrr. (i was looking for a skyscraper tutorial, some parts wich could be applied to minetest) independent56: but i guess it is open source, so you cant really "steal". only "draw slight inspiration from" Danil_2461: guy hear me out: what if distortion effects Danil_2461: screen distortion effects independent56: how would i unload and reload mapblocks? independent56: without removing their content, just unloading them from my machine, and requesting them from the server again. sfan5: easiest option: restart the client independent56: ah yes... i wish there was a command like "/reload here 100". then i can get the worldedited blocks back. independent56: what speed do i need to make ingame time sync with IRL time? i tried 24, but tha... oh wait thats 24* faster.... i have to use 1. dammit, can i ever read things properly? independent56: well, i guess its time to quickly write a small mod wich, every 20 seconds, gets the IRL time and sets MT time to tthat. calcul0n_: i've seen that on a server, maybe the mod already exists independent56: hmm, i will look for one (anything not to loom through docs and code) independent56: https://github.com/Yukitty/minetest-system_time independent56: nice! independent56: that way, american players can see that it is currently day, whilst they are just waking up. Danil_2461: 😳 independent56: i do not want to sync IRL time to MT time. to do so would invite unnecessary chaos to the stock market. i a syncing MT time to IRL time. entuland: syncing in-game time to real-life time is interesting, but someone would end up with a mismatch somewhere (or the two players in the same in-game spot, whilst far away in real life, would experience different in-game time, which would be odd) entuland: I have a solution for that though ahahahah entuland: make the game AR, bind it to physical location and prevent them from moving in the world if the device itself doesn't move IRL accordingly :P entuland: and if they cheat and teleport themselves, teleport them IRL :P independent56: yeah, my solution is simply to have the tiem synced to my time. independent56: wait... so minetest sends packets to servers.minetest.net.... so if i send my own, i can make a fake one? entuland: fake one as fake _what_ exactly? entuland: fake packet? independent56: basically, i send a packet with made-up server information. then they decode it and say that the server exists, despite having a name of "haha i pranked servers.minetest.net with a fake packet" sfan5: it checks that the server exists, obviously independent56: oh, phew! erlehmann: i have a theory erlehmann: theory: you can lag a server by connecting to it erlehmann: evidence: i connected to a server with --verbose, which slowed down the process, everyone on the server had massive lag just before i joined erlehmann: anyone have similar experiences? y5nw: I suppose the server has a lot of joinplayer callbacks? erlehmann: uh let me check independent56: lets see it with trace XD independent56: wow.... thats a fucking lot of infromation independent56: wait no, it spams the chat independent56: (client-side) erlehmann: independent56 well erlehmann: independent56 i think being slow in general slows everything down independent56: cool! my computer can generally handle minetest and vivaldi running together with remarkable efficency, even with lots more mediumweight programs running. IhrFussel: If the server lags as someone connects it is usually caused by the register_on_prejoinplayer() rather...did you mean join? independent_: how do i disable abm logging? independent_: it spams the terminal, removing all important events independent56: how do people make their server have a loyal playerbase? i am very in need of nice, polite players to build and help memake my server better. CWz: Good question specing: Probably by being commited to your server and by making it differentiate from all the rest IhrFussel: And by not banning people for fun or just because you feel like you've been treated badly in the community and wanna take revenge now exe_virus: Yeah that too wwar: In my opinion, banning who breaks the rules and not being afraid of losing players due to that is good too entuland: not enforcing the rules and not banning the offenders is actually a good way to lose players entuland: good players normally expect good administration and can easily flee if it is lacking wwar: Indeed, so ur rules must be strict wwar: Not banning who break the rules for being afraid of losing players will make the good people leave and only the rulebreakers stay specing: Doesen't Catlandia, a semi-anarchy server, have the most players? wwar: Catlandia allows 0.4 clients wwar: As far as i know most(if not all) multicraft users can access 0.4 only entuland: well, if the rule is "no rules" or so, that's what those players look for entuland: they're not going to complain if they get griefed or tricked or whatever entuland: and if they do, they'd be dumb to be playing in such a server to begin with :P wwar: I believe if you want to make a good server you wont want 20-30 players online all the time who do nothing and not know how to play the game and you cant teach them as they dont use chat specing: entuland: I doubt many people read rules to begin with entuland: I don't consider such people as worthy players to begin with AntumDeluge: Is this an official organization of the Minetest dev team? https://github.com/minetest-game-mods sfan5: no AntumDeluge: 👍 AntumDeluge: I should be able to use the content manager as long as curl was enabled in my build shouldn't I? Its not retrieving any content. Jonathon: no, @《cURL》 has one thats actually kept up to date tho Jonathon: @AntumDeluge https://github.com/minetest-game AntumDeluge: That's official? Jonathon: no, but actually kept up to date unlike the other AntumDeluge: Who maintains it? BuckarooBanzay? I see he/she created a script for separating the mods: https://github.com/minetest-game/repo_slicer Jonathon: yes Jonathon: its useful if you want specific mtg mods as a submodule for a modpack/game AntumDeluge: Official enough then. 🙂 AntumDeluge: I was confused at first because in my comment just before this one I mentioned "curl". So I thought you were referring to it. Jonathon: thats nicks for ya AntumDeluge: I was going to ask "I'm guessing that @《cURL》 is BuckarooBanzay?". But I see now that the profile image is the same. AntumDeluge: So why wouldn't my desktop client build be able to access content.minetest.net? Is it because it is a dev build? Jonathon: how old is it? i think nrz broke one of the dev builds a while back AntumDeluge: It's built from master Git branch. Jonathon: he also broke copying a while back AntumDeluge: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/c47313db6 AntumDeluge: I disabled leveldb, luajit, & redis. But none of those have anything to do with network connections do they? Jonathon: interesting, can find the copy paste issue (was fixed) but not the content one atm Jonathon: here we go https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11245/files AntumDeluge: There is a recent commit about curl_timeout, but that is probably not related: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/b56a028d6bc101cb01f5bdfe07053ac1af9fb016 independent56: i think this captures the spirit of the slow lowlands perfectly: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=human_areas%3Aslow_lowlands&media=buildings:sl:viaduct_spaghetti.png independent56: wait... NOW you're telling me i cant host a minetest server in a minetest server? https://imgur.com/a/zgH2Pfa definitely_a: hello, everytime I try to create a world in MTG, it generates with no grass or dirt layer. Any idea what could cause this, please? Minetest 5.5.0. Thanks sfan5: sounds like you have mapgen settings wrong in your minetest.conf definitely_a: Probably, lemme check. definitely_a: Somehow I had managed to disable biomes... it's fixed thanks a lot. erlehmann: he also broke copying a while back erlehmann: Jonathon, copying? erlehmann: he also broke copying a while back erlehmann: is it possible to get the minetest version of the server via a lua command? sfan5: minetest.get_version() specing: I wish we could place_node with arbitrary rotation via CSM (by varying above/under), but it seems that the only result if I change above/under is the position where the node is placed. And this happens only if I change the z coordinate (with viewport (1,0,0)), else the node is simply not placed D: entuland: above and under should relate to the face you're aiming at - under should always be the occupied position, owning the face you are aiming at, and above should be the free one, right in front of that face regardless of the orientation entuland: comparing the coordinates of above and under you can tell the orientation of the aiming and perform the placement somewhere else according to that entuland: at least that's my recollection about the last time I had to deal with that (and that's a while ago) entuland: some nodes can't be placed in arbitrary rotations or positions (doors, for instance, require 2 free positions on the vertical and can't be placed sideways) specing: I was testing with furnces mid-air, so space shouldn't have been a problem specing: furnaces* specing: Perhaps air is the problem, but those +-z test placements worked mid-air, so... entuland: I'm a bit confused about the above/under thing if you're placing nodes in arbitrary positions - you should be free to place anything in any position, provided it's free, the above/under should come into play only when there is a player interaction (place callbacks, punch callbacks or the alike) entuland: perhaps I'm failing to see your exact context erlehmann: entuland so CSMs can place upside down corner stairs just so? entuland: corner stairs are probably a special case due to some automatic system that renders them as corners instead of regular stairs entuland: but you can rotate stairs upside down IIRC entuland: let me do one test specing: There's no indication of that being possible specing: entuland: yes you can, with a screwdriver entuland: oh I mean rotating a _corner_ stair entuland: actually, do we even have corner stairs in MTG? specing: entuland: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/ea7da386/ entuland: I may be mixing things up with other games entuland: erlehmann, how do you get corner stairs in MTG? entuland: I know I can place and rotate stuff cause I did that with my wesh and rhotator mods, so I can place stairs upside down or sideways just fine, but I can't find corners erlehmann: entuland no idea i was thinking of more blocks and stuff specing: corner stairs are in stairs: mod entuland: okay, let me try that entuland: moreblocks corner stairs are normal blocks that can be placed upside down directly just by aiming at the ceiling: https://i.imgur.com/6qvmQPl.png entuland: specing, the code you shared looks like trying to place the node in the first free position around where the player aimed, I'm not sure what's the intended purpose and what is failing there, if anything is failig entuland: failing* specing: entuland: not in first free, but one furnace every 2 nodes specing: (in the (1,0,0) direction) entuland: okay, I'm not that good with spatial placement reading code :P entuland: how is that code failing? specing: It only places 2/6 furnaces, and only when z varies entuland: okay, another query - normal mods should be able to do that, but you mentioned CSM, which if I am not mistaken are a different type of mods entuland: is that the case? specing: And they are placed side-by-side in the z axis. Not sure how that happens, since they should be spaced 2 nodes apart in the x direction... specing: entuland: yes, client side mods entuland: I have never messed with client side mods, no idea even how they differ from normal mods entuland: uhm... entuland: you're using timeouts or something to run the placement functions entuland: but you're using the same pos table entuland: maybe the actual table is the same and you're getting bitten by the table being altered "under the callback's feet" so to speak? specing: No, just spacing the placements 1 second apart to prevent potential server-side place spedd ratelimiter from affecting this test entuland: some kind of race condition specing: I thought about that, but I'm defining a new table every time by copying the numbers specing: Hmm entuland: attach is a different object, yes, but pos is not entuland: and you're passing both specing: it should be (vector.add makes a new one(?)) entuland: not sure how that works specing: Anyway, I'll try doing it more manually entuland: try using completely different names for each position entuland: pos1, attach1 and so forth erlehmann: anyone of you experienced in debugging the minetest protocol using wireshark etc.? erlehmann: i wanna figure out sources of lag entuland: just for paranoia specing: Yes, I'll do that erlehmann: anyone of you experienced in debugging the minetest protocol using wireshark etc.? erlehmann: i wanna figure out sources of lag specing: entuland: I guess that was partially the problem. Results: https://wtf.roflcopter.fr/pics/8OpOOrUS/CM5NQGm6.png (left is when pos and attach are swapped in code) code: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/7eb68bcc/ specing: No matter how I place, param2 is always 1 entuland: uhm entuland: place_node takes (pos, node) according to the API entuland: so not sure I get that swapping entuland_: there is no trace of param2 handling in the snippet you've shared, you're using it to change the orientation? specing: I guess this is not possible, so I either have to teach it to use a screwdriver or make it pathfind around and place (mega harder) entuland_: how so? the screwdrivers rotate blocks exactly by altering param2 entuland_: you don't have to use any screwdriver, you just have to know which values to assign to param2 when you're placing the nodes entuland_: it's somewhat tricky because param2 is used for more than just orientation, so you need to do some integer mask juggling, but it's not that hard entuland_: for instance, here is one bit where I deal with param2 in my rhotator mod: https://github.com/entuland/rhotator/blob/master/init.lua#L451-L453 independent_: sorry if my server has lost half of the map, the cat walked on the server keyboars independent_: now i get why real servers have a remote keyboard entuland: independent56, even just a screen lock could solve that issue out if you have cats around :P independent56: lol yeah entuland: also, kudos to your cat, they must be knowledgeable if they could screw up your map like that independent56: but without risk of losing your progress, life isnt worth living entuland: it's not easy to issue valid commands by randomly mashing the keyboard :P independent56: easy "sudo rm -r / #wjkqfbiqbi93b 3 bd379" independent56: but isnt that what movie hackers do? entuland: if that's what really happened, you issued that command yourself to have it in the history entuland: or you were typing it in the shell and left it incomplete and also left the server unattended with a known offender around :P independent56: oh god yeah, i did that and did ^c to do a risky cleanup. cat must have done "up+up+up+up+enter" independent_: what is the advantage of the "carpathian" mapgen? erlehmann: rivers independent_: and other things? why would i use it over v7? entuland: erlehmann, no experience with wireshark, you could though try disabling mods one by one to find the offender (if that's the case) erlehmann: entuland no i could ot erlehmann: not entuland: you may try providing more details about the symptoms, maybe someone can chip in after understanding the situation better erlehmann: entuland symptoms: i want to see what goes over the wire erlehmann: entuland while i play the game erlehmann: entuland in real time entuland: I mean what happens that you are defining lags entuland: the frequency of the lags or what you're doing when they happen or how they manifest themselves, those are the symptoms I refer to entuland: the lag / freezes may be client side and not due to anything related to the server at all entuland: lagging and latency are also different things - you may not have the client freeze at all but some of your actions may not get a timely response from the server, and that would count as latency erlehmann: entuland lag spikes on server erlehmann: entuland every connected client has lag specing: erlehmann: then you should be debugging the server? erlehmann: entuland and sometimes some clients get sent *way* more metadata erlehmann: i mean erlehmann: map data erlehmann: o rwhatever erlehmann: who knows?! erlehmann: entuland i recently accidentally almost bookbanned myself specing: Reduce number of active blocks? erlehmann: no no i want to know what causes *traffic* erlehmann: and inspect that traffic entuland: the amount of map data a client receives depends on the view range entuland: maybe someone is just going nuts with their view range and causes huge requests "on purpose"? entuland: as for bookbanning, you may as well have some player doing sketchy things and overloading the server - how to go about hunting / troubleshooting these things, though, I have no idea erlehmann: entuland a player was standing still and minetest was using like 6 times normal traffic erlehmann: and it was laggy entuland: where is the server running? entuland: is it on a remote machine or on your computer? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Message for empty list output in /haspriv & /mods (#11149) 13dc165fe https://git.io/JZSeA (152021-06-12T16:48:21Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04benrob0329 -> 03minetest/minetest: falling.lua - Fix Meshnodes Being Too Big (#11307) 13fbcf0fa https://git.io/JZSep (152021-06-12T16:48:14Z) Pexin: entuland specing: I may have missed some of the conversation above, but isn't it impossible for CSM to place nodes? specing: Pexin: in default minetest yep independent56: leaked photo shows 56i's crappy server http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=server_1.jpg Jordach: almost on par with the EEEEEEE PC independent56: i don get it independent56: oh yeah now i do XD * independent56: aiting for worldedit to copy a 165 K block skyscraper independent56: https://imgur.com/a/hudzFSV * independent56: still waiting sfan5: if it says copied then it should already be done wsor4035: erlehmann: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11273#issuecomment-842670087 independent56: oh cool independent56: but it hasnt done. i am still waiting for the building to appear entuland: uh entuland: copying and pasting should be different things, isn't it? entuland: (never used worldedit myself) sfan5: independent56: then something went wrong, when copy says it's done it is independent56: entuland, it does them both for you. you specify directon to copy, like "x 10" or "y 5" for skyscraper floors. it does the pasting for you. entuland: okay independent56: well fuck, i did "y 5" instead of "y 50" making a broken skyscraper independent56: sorry, i lied. i did "z 30". i thought it was too close and that they had merged, but they hadnt. entuland: eheheh entuland: pebkac independent56: https://imgur.com/a/gpMGTbT Jonathon: looks ugly entuland: ahahah entuland: moral support :P entuland: at least you can jump from one to the other independent56: XD yeah independent56: it is council housing. independent56: i mean, the slow lowlands landscape is ugly. ugly buildings go in ugly landscapes independent56: 3 flats built within 30 minutes independent56: https://imgur.com/a/fAcIONi independent56: council buildings Krock: is that minetest r34 content? Krock: jokes aside, good structure for a start independent56: yeah... i just only built one floor, then used worldedit to copy that floor into hell independent56: up, sideways, and soon, bakcwards independent56: that is 5 skyscrapers in the slow lowlands, excluding the http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=buildings:sl:pathetiscraper erlehmann: wsor4035 why did you link me that? Jonathon: because you pinged me earlier Jonathon: he also broke copying a while back @wsor copying? he also broke copying a while back erlehmann: ah erlehmann: now i understand erlehmann: sorry independent56: how to start a minetest server using the command line: "up+up+up+down+down+up+enter" specing: I'm not sure if that's going to work. It's missing a rm -rf / invocation independent56: XD entuland: cat not included independent56: XDXD erlehmann: rubenwardy my friend Li0n actually used the wrong technical name for the MNT reform mod (“mnt_reform”) and told me the field can not be changed afterwards. the mod does not work if you download it. the technical name should actually be “mntreform”, without the underscore. erlehmann: rubenwardy could you please change the value? also, I think it might make sense to make obvious that “technical name” means “folder name” erlehmann: rubenwardy also I think a human approved it, but at least on my computer the mod does not work. exe_virus: 1. Not only rubenwardy can make those changes. 2. Could delete the mod from cdb and reupload Jonathon: please dont do #2 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood exe_virus: 3. You can change it locally on your computer in the meantime exe_virus: Also: lol Jonathon: also, you do realize that mod.conf has a name field for the actual mod name? erlehmann: 3. You can change it locally on your computer in the meantime rubenwardy: An editor can rename erlehmann: that won't fix it for people who dl it rubenwardy: I'm busy right now erlehmann: hmmm rubenwardy: Not that changing the name changes the id, and so breaks update s rubenwardy: *note Jonathon: easiest way is just add a name to mod.conf Jonathon: and let people update erlehmann: but right now the mod does not work at all Jonathon: yeah, and? erlehmann: that means breaking the mod for everyone who downloaded it is not a problem i think Li0n: mods on contentdb should and this one doesnt erlehmann: or is it? Li0n: how did a non-working mod get approved? you literally cannot start the game with it Jonathon: wth, mod.config? its mod.conf erlehmann: well i was able to, but it broke the mineclone2 interface in half erlehmann: i was not able to start with it earlier though, no idea why it worked now erlehmann: maybe different versions of the engine erlehmann: (different computers) Jonathon: >minetest-mod-mntreform-lawsuit-free 🤔 Jonathon: i could just un approve it for now Jonathon: wth is this, yeah on 5.4 it broke a lot, and even on restart is still screwed Jonathon: unapproved Jonathon: it looks like normal node registrations 🤔 erlehmann: uh, by unapproving the mod the comment that Li0n wrote about it not working erlehmann: was rejected Jonathon: i fail to see the issue there Jonathon: its not publicly listed anymore erlehmann: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/items/nodes_items_crafting.html#item-names erlehmann: > Every item has an item name used to refer to it, which should be in the following format: erlehmann: > modname:itemname erlehmann: similar for nodes, i think Jonathon: yeah, im well aware erlehmann: so in this case, the mod source code contains the prefix mntreform, but the folder is mnt_reform Jonathon: im more curious how the mod hosed over the world erlehmann: is that enough to break it? erlehmann: oh, what is broken in your world? Jonathon: in theory if modname xyz, and you register zzz:item, the engine will error at you erlehmann: oh lol it did break which mods are loaded Jonathon: yeah, and broke it even after the fact erlehmann: uh erlehmann: here too erlehmann: wtf Jonathon: Name stupid:stupid does not follow naming conventions: "modname" or ":" prefix required Jonathon: if you make a mod that doesnt follow standards Jonathon: not relevant at all, but this mods coding style is terrible erlehmann: Jonathon i know how it breaks this world Jonathon: oh? Li0n: jonathon, what is wrong with the book? it follows rubenwardys coding book standard Li0n: I mean wrong with the mod erlehmann: Jonathon the mod depends on mesecons, but somehow it breaking leads to the world saving mesecons as a dependency, which then breaks redstone and everything depending on it. erlehmann: because mesecons inside mineclone2 is basically redstone Jonathon: yeah, i got that much Jonathon: im just not sure why the engine isnt complaining that the mod doesnt following the name standards Jonathon: unless mods from cdb get special treatment Jonathon: you know, let me clone this and see what happens Li0n: normally it does complain erlehmann: > unless mods from cdb get special treatment erlehmann: that would be extremely weird Jonathon: ooooh, hold on erlehmann: maybe it has something to do with the mod.json? erlehmann: Jonathon did you find the smoking gun? Jonathon: do you have the mesecons mod installed in your /mods folder? erlehmann: yes Jonathon: his mod depends on mesecons, and when you go to enable it the engine auto enables mesecons from your /mods folder. i have seen this before Jonathon: its a mixture of the engines fault? if you consider that behavior bad, and mineclone2 devs for being stupid and not renaming the mod to something else Jonathon: disable mesecons from the gui in the mesecons modpack Jonathon: and then the engine will give the wrong format error Jonathon: and if you disable mesecons, your mc2 world will load normally Jonathon: yet another reason mineclone2 is trash Jonathon: even if you rename the mod correctly, technically the possiblity will still exist for people to blow up there worlds Jonathon: for any mod for mc2 that needs to depend on mesecons Li0n: yes I should make it depend on Mineclonia instead erlehmann: which is not on contentdb erlehmann: yet Li0n: oh right Jonathon: TLDR: the engine trys to hold your hand when enabling mods with dependencies and favors ones in /mods over games(which probably isnt a bad thing.). mineclone2 used mesecons and extensively modified it(i.e. didnt respect namespaces themselves) and left it the same name erlehmann: so i wonder: can you make a mod depend on mineclone2 or mineclonia? those are basically the same, except that mineclone2 has a bunch of game-breaking bugs. Jonathon: do what farming redo depending mods do Li0n: in hindsight I did the dependencies a bit wrong in the config folders erlehmann: Jonathon uh, what do they do? erlehmann: any example for such a mod? Jonathon: farming redo has a string that mtg farming doesn't and mods depened on farming, then they do a check for that string Li0n: I will have to make a new release Jonathon: also, farming redo 100 percent supports mtg farmings functions, unlike what the mineclone2 did which is stupid Jonathon: erlehmann: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/farming/src/master/init.lua#L8-L19 erlehmann: thx Jonathon: also the engine allows you to enable mods in /mods with the same name as mods provided by a game as a way to override them erlehmann: Jonathon good to know that its someone elses fault Jonathon: well yes and no Li0n: it is everyones fault Li0n: we all failed each other erlehmann: yeah, no one is right, everyone is wrong Jonathon: ultimately its mineclone2 fault mainly for being dumb, the approver for missing a _ in the names, and those two combined creating a big mess Li0n: if I had not made certain mistakes, it would have been fine. if contentdb had not made certain mistakes, it would have been fine. if mineclone2 had not made certain mistakes, it would have been fine erlehmann: the catastrophe only happens if you manage to hold up a dozen swiss cheese slices and the holes randomly line up to let the bug through Jonathon: LOL, yes this Li0n: lmao yes erlehmann: it's great, i am literally the only one talking right now who is totally free of blame! erlehmann: :D Jonathon: i didnt approve that package 😛 Li0n: I can't help but think about those 89 downloads my mod has. there may be up to 89 people now with a broken minetest erlehmann: well, a broken world erlehmann: minetest should really not automatically enable a mod from outside a game that exists in a game erlehmann: if the game is that base game for the world Jonathon: mineclonia still has the same issues erlehmann: that seems wrong Jonathon: it uses names it technically doesnt on Jonathon: *own erlehmann: Jonathon and guess what, we are locked in into that Li0n: well I may have made a mistake in the dependencies saying it depends on mesecons instead of mineclone2 Jonathon: "minetest should really not automatically enable a mod from outside a game that exists in a game" yes, it should, its a way to override whole mods, just like : overrides nodes erlehmann: i have somethign funny: i *think* that the mod works with both mesecons erlehmann: the one from mcl2/mineclonia and the standalone one Jonathon: erlehmann: not really, i think its fixable erlehmann: ah erlehmann: but you can not craft the laptop actually erlehmann: inside the game, without mineclone dyes Jonathon: just whoever fixes it will hate there life if they want to backwords supports stuff erlehmann: so it does depend on more than redstone/mesecons Jonathon: oh wait, you could just change the name, and add : in front of all registrations, easily fixng this, no aliases needed erlehmann: uh? erlehmann: i don't get it Li0n: what a mess I've created Jonathon: change all your mesecon mods names to mcl_modname, then in places that register stuff, just add a : in front Li0n: here I was thinking minetest modding was entry level coding erlehmann: Li0n the correct way is "uncovered". the emperor had no clothes the whole time! Jonathon: Li0n: it is, till your depending on others mistakes Jonathon: also: they will only have a broken world if they had mesecons in there /mods Li0n: ah Li0n: if they did not have mesecons in their mods then the mod probably still would not have run Jonathon: while my suggested fix is not ideal, its the easiest for backwords compat, and keeping ones sanity Jonathon: this also means that no one can depend on mesecons safely now at all Jonathon: im really suprised no one has blowen this up before Jonathon: considering its a popular mod and subgame Jonathon: so anyways, im not really sure what to do, i would say mineclone2/mineclonia need to fix themselves first tbh AntumDeluge: It is unclear to me how to "swap" items in a detached inventory: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/c9144ae/doc/lua_api.txt#L6083 AntumDeluge: I may have found a tutorial. Watching it now: https://nathansalapat.com/minetest/inventory-manipulation AntumDeluge: Maybe not. I'm trying to swap items in/out of a detached inventory with the cursor, like is done by default when any item is allowed in a slot. AntumDeluge: When I try to swap, the item that I am holding with the cursor disappears. Jonathon: why do they need to be in the curser? just swap the two itemstacks from inventories AntumDeluge: That's what I'm trying to do. I'll upload a video of what is happening. AntumDeluge: Held item disappears when trying to swap in detached inventory. AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/852749293650575410/minetest_inventory_swap.mp4 Jonathon: what does your code look like? Jonathon: and you just want the items to swap, nothing else? AntumDeluge: Correct, just like what is normally done when swapping between two inventories. Jonathon: code? AntumDeluge: I'll link to my code. AntumDeluge: https://github.com/AntumMT/mod-server_shop/blob/349d781/deposit.lua#L27 Jonathon: oh, you want to allow/deny swaps? Jonathon: your looking for allow_metadata_inventory_move Jonathon: L7746 lua_api.txt Jonathon: err, ignore that AntumDeluge: That only works for nodes, doesn't it? Jonathon: yeah Jonathon: allow_move l8258 Jonathon: there also is on_move AntumDeluge: DetachedInventory:on_move? AntumDeluge: okay, I'll check that out. Jonathon: L5242 to L5250, shows you where to put the callbacks in the dettached inv creation AntumDeluge: allow_move/on_move aren't being called. AntumDeluge: I thought that allow_move/on_move were only for moving items between slots within the same inventory. Jonathon: nope Jonathon: allow_move = function(inv, from_list, from_index, to_list, to_index, count, player), AntumDeluge: Ah, okay. But still, not being called for some reason. Jonathon: did you actually put it in the dettached inv def? AntumDeluge: Yes. Jonathon: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/items/inventories.html modding book has a example, similar? Jonathon: or https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/creative/inventory.lua#L33-L62 AntumDeluge: Yes. AntumDeluge: Except in that last example, they have forced allow_put to return 0. Perhaps that will cause allow_move to be called. AntumDeluge: Nope. AntumDeluge: I suppose I have to get the inventory stack in on_put & just move it to player main inventory. But would be nice to have the default behavior. Jonathon: works for me AntumDeluge: Ya, except now I have this going on. 🙄 AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/852762813691985960/minetest_inventory_swap.mp4 AntumDeluge: If I don't define any callbacks, it works just fine. But ya, I want to limit which items can be placed into the inventory. AntumDeluge: I have no idea why on_move isn't working. AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/852766619741847559/deposit.png Jonathon: On move end has no comma? Jonathon: Seems like that would crash AntumDeluge: Sorry, that's just a typo. Jonathon: Ill test some more tommorrow if you havent gotten a answer by then AntumDeluge: K. Thanks for responding. independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=downtime:migration_failure independent56: what path do you think i should take? VanessaE: 4. reset the map, declare the world a total loss, and accept public humiliation for not having a proper daily backup plan in place. VanessaE: :P independent56: ah yes, plan ID #4.5 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4 -- cppcheck warnings independent56: since it is not an intiger, then it cant be included sfan5: just restore from backup ;) independent56: would advtrains crash into glow glass? entuland: I guess it's test time :P Warr1024: Seems like there's been changes to the movement code in 5.5 that cause the vector.round(player:get_pos()) to sometimes return the wrong pos, i.e. one node too low? Warr1024: I'm curious if anyone has seen anything like this... sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10803 Warr1024: So if I have a value like -1.5 exactly, it used to be rounded to -1.0 but now it's rounded to -2.0? Warr1024: That seems ... bad, but admittedly not any less bad than it was before; exactly-off-by-half values are always a worst-case. Warr1024: I guess I can just force round-toward-positive behavior in the special case I'm encountering by adding a fudge factor sfan5: yes sfan5: if there's a reason why round-towards-positive is better/more useful it should be put back Warr1024: It's tricky because it only really makes sense in the y axis, since that's the only place where a player having a coordinate of exactly -1.5 is likely to happen in normal play, and the only place where the expected behavior of that rounding to -1.0 has established meaning Warr1024: basically if you do minetest.get_node(vector.round(player:get_pos())) then you usually get the node the player's feet are "in" but in this one corner case you get the node the player is standing ON. Warr1024: arguably the old behavior worked more least-surprisey in this case, and there was no likely different in surprisiness on the other axes, so the old behavior is slightly more theoretically wrong but slightly more practically useful. Warr1024: Now modders will need to know to handle this special case wherein they could code more naively and have things still work as expected. AntumDeluge: Is there a recommended place for posting example code? I know of pastebin, but it seems many frown upon that one. AntumDeluge: Actually, I guess I can just put my code in a GitHub gist. Warr1024: I like gists a lot myself. There are lots of other pastebinny things like paste.ubuntu.com or sprunge.us too AntumDeluge: Okay. Ya, I will probably stick to gists. AntumDeluge: This does seem to be the case. Is that intentional? AntumDeluge: Oops, meant to reply to this one. AntumDeluge: In my tests, allow_move/on_move InvRef callbacks are only called when moving items within the same inventory. ShadowNinja: I use gists, but you do need an account to use it, which is why I don't use it for ,,(config plugins.FloodProtector.suggestedPastebin) sprunge is also nice because it's easy to pipe to it from the command line, but the web form doesn't seem to work in firefox anymore, so you have to use the command line. ShadowBot: ShadowNinja: Global: paste.ubuntu.com; #minetest @ libera: paste.ubuntu.com independent56: there shtherou independent56: sorry, hexchat glitch AntumDeluge: This isn't the problem I was referring to last night. But it has got me curious because I know it will come up in the future. I'm moving items between slots in an inventory, but the items are being lost because in the on_move callback the inventory slots come back as empty: https://gist.github.com/AntumDeluge/0236efc1b2c22bdd454177cc3490570c independent56: there should be a worldedit competiton where you buid something in worldedit and x does y to z.... oh wait, i made the idea, and am capable of hosting it... oh golly, i need to host it! AntumDeluge: I'm using Minetest version 5.4.1. AntumDeluge: This is my full test code: https://gist.github.com/AntumDeluge/cce0c653d817205685b268b318302432 AntumDeluge: Here is a demonstration of what is happening with this code. AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/852968393756901406/minetest_detached_inv_swap.mp4 AntumDeluge: Moving between two different inventories works fine as long as the target slot is empty or contains the same item. Krock: are you re-inventing the stack movement code? AntumDeluge: I have no idea. I posted the code above. AntumDeluge: Edited: had some return calls in the on_ methods that didn't do anything. AntumDeluge: How do I preserve the stack movement code? Krock: don't use inventory functions in the callbacks Krock: use the "count" and "itemstack" return values to change the amount of moved items AntumDeluge: Oh, I see. Thank you. I will give that a try. Krock: it's best to do everything in the allow_* callbacks to not deal with the on_* afterwards AntumDeluge: Okay. I've done that before, but thought in this case it was better to go through to the on_* callbacks. Krock: on_* is called when the real movement happens (after finding out what's allowed to move), hence you'd use that for messages like "player X moved Y from Z to A" AntumDeluge: Makes sense. Krock: to forbid moving of a certain item, return 0 in a allow_* callback Krock: or to move stacks of size 1, return 1 respectively. Krock: any calls to inventory functions within inventory callbacks outright ask for item duplications and loss to happen AntumDeluge: So by just setting the allow_* callbacks to return -1 should be regular behavior, right? By doing that, my items just disappear. That's why I started filling out the on_* callbacks. AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/852974643665174558/minetest_detached_inv.mp4 AntumDeluge: Here is the code for that: https://gist.github.com/AntumDeluge/e5689383c9c4513a8e161e6190e4e79c Sokomine: is someone familiar with minetest.dig_node and minetest.place_node? i was hoping to be able to use it for an npc (instead of either add/set node or the way the nodebreaker and deployer goes) Sokomine: the results are a bit..unexpected. dig_node digs the node all right - but then drops the drops as items. and place_node does not place the block at the target position if there is air beneath... specing: How do working villagers do it? celeron55: they could work, and were originally designed so that they could work, but probably nobody has ever used them in that way so it's probably not tested and broken, and other mods can definitely break Sokomine: it'd be nice to be able to understand the logic behind them and what they where invented for Sokomine: specing: ah. seems working_villagers encountered the same problem with digging a node and uses code to circumvent it. but that strange oddity with placing a node doesn't seem to be an issue there celeron55: hmm, actually, i was thinking something else celeron55: these definitely should work Sokomine: a player looking downward on a block of air couldn't place the block that way either. perhaps it tries to emulate that celeron55: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/lua_api/l_env.cpp#L461 celeron55: it needs to generate a PointedThing in order to call the on_place callback celeron55: and looks like it uses the node below as the "under surface" position celeron55: that's weird, i think pointed thing can actually have both as the same position, no? Sokomine: hm. perhaps not for placing celeron55: maybe it would break something Sokomine: could be. it does say after all that it places like a player. a player would look at a diffrent node where he could place the new one against Sokomine: great that you found that place! celeron55: an issue needs to be reported on this celeron55: the solution doesn't seem obvious Sokomine: if it's known it can be handed in the code: look if there's air below - if so, increase your position by 1 Sokomine: doesn't seem very clean but will most likely work celeron55: well at least it has to be documented Sokomine: that's right Sokomine: are you going to? after all you found the right location :-) celeron55: about dig_node: it seems there should be a version where you can control where the drops go celeron55: nah... i'm just passing by 8-) Sokomine: yes. that would be fine. after all the npc does have an inventory - and gets its drops in there manually. having that handled by mt directly would be helpful Sokomine: :-) celeron55: but what happens with drops is game specific so i'm not sure what kind of control there even can be celeron55: i guess ideally the drops should simply be a return value, but that could be very complicated to implement Sokomine: the server admin of the your land server (Alias) has created a nice mod which allows rpg-like talking with npc. it's a very powerful mod that even allows execution of any lua code. i'm tuning it down so that it can hopefully be safely used by players specing: Sokomine | a player looking downward on a block of air couldn't place the block that way either. specing: I can :P Sokomine: perhaps just an optional inventory as target location? and if there's none drop the items like now. after all an entity like an npc won't have item_pickup Sokomine: with a modified client you can do almost anything. but in general you can't place *on* air if you point at the air specing: true specing: I don't yet know how to CSM place nodes with rotation celeron55: dig_node seems to simply call the on_dig method of the target node with an uninitialized/dummy ObjectRef, and then core.handle_node_drops looks at that and sees it doesn't have an inventory and drops the items on the ground celeron55: being able to pass an ObjectRef to dig_node could be useful Sokomine: definitely celeron55: to be the digger celeron55: if the digger has an inventory, it would put the drops into the "main" list celeron55: just like for a player independent56: i have made a huge skyscraper base... and wrodledit is still trying to cpy it upwards. Sokomine: trouble with some normal functions (on_rightclick will give me some trouble there i fear) is that they usually expect a player to be the actor - and will at best do nothing if the acting thing doesn't have a player name. but it'd be helpful to have these fucntions work celeron55: that's worth an issue on github also, i think that feature could be added Sokomine: that'd be great :-) celeron55: but i would warn that even while the engine can support all of those objects not being players, i'm sure many mods will break Sokomine: independent56: if the area wasn't loaded before that may happen. and it may take a while if it's a very huge skyscraper Sokomine: yes. i fear less with digging/placing - after all many mods do that to some degree...but right-click will be a real pain in that regard independent56: https://imgur.com/a/pJn362F independent56: this is the base Sokomine: can't see because of javascript. hope it has many nice details as well independent56: https://i.imgur.com/bFqB3vO.png here is the raw image Sokomine: for npc, it would be really great if some things in the world could be more unversal. like "this is a door". would make life way easier for them independent56: and it has boring floors. just 6 elevators per floor, and a sandbox to build in. independent56: this is the slow lowlands, a place under development and rebuilding, turning it from swamp to city. independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=nature:slow_lowlands independent56: old screenshot Sokomine: ah. hope you can sell the appartments in the skyscraper to intrested players :-) independent56: XD yeah good idea. i am planning on selling floors instea dof using rental panels, mainly because the players will ahve a nice, large, prebuilt home to furnish ( ybut the windows and supports are vunurable) independent56: https://imgur.com/a/NdjXuGe independent56: here is a ncie comaprison image. i wish for the skyscraper to go as high as possible before it goes out of porportion. Sokomine: a player on tunneler's abyss has built great and intresting skyscrapers by hand. sadly he left and asked for his buildings to be removed independent56: andreasbadger... yeah i remember seeing the screenshots. dammit! i should have kept them. meh. Warr1024: That "I'm leaving and taking my stuff with me too" thing can really mess with a server if builds are collaborative or people build their stuff based on what's around it. Warr1024: I require players to CC0-license what they build as a condition of joining my server to prevent those kinds of issues. independent56: hmm independent56: i need to add that to mine Warr1024: The license is reciprocal. That means they give up the ability to revoke access to what they build, but in exchange, they get access to everything everybody else builds. Client-saving is encouraged, and I even offer nightly backup snapshots for download. AntumDeluge: Why does setting allow_put in detached inventory to return -1 not use the default behavior? Instead, my item just disappears: https://gist.github.com/AntumDeluge/e5689383c9c4513a8e161e6190e4e79c Warr1024: As a side effect, players can take charge of their own backups, and the world can be recovered even if I suddenly just ghost and take down the server one day, hence no hometown-esque situations. AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/852991779082207252/minetest_detached_inv.mp4 Warr1024: As a result, because players know that they cannot be locked away from access from their own stuff either, that means they can feel free to build with confidence and invest their time into the server without worry of having it arbitrarily lost. Warr1024: AntumDeluge: Is -1 supposed to be some kind of special value that's documented as doing the default thing? Warr1024: I'd expect using a value like nil or true or false or +infinity would make more sense, and a special -1 value is sort of a C-ism. AntumDeluge: I was just about to test stack:get_count(). But I did read somewhere that -1 allows any amount. Perhaps that was for a different inventory type. Warr1024: Could be, could be for a different hook, or maybe it's just consistently inconsistent. AntumDeluge: Yes, I see now that returning stack:get_count() does indeed work. Warr1024: If the documentation either (1) says -1 should work, or (2) doesn't say for this particular use, but does say it should work for some other use, hence at least implying it should work, then I'd call that at minimum a documentation bug, if not worse... Krock: -1 means infinite source or sink AntumDeluge: So, it's not my fault & I'm not completely dumb? 😉 AntumDeluge: Yes! it's working as desired. Thank you. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Warr1024: -1 is just not a particularly good value to choose for a "special case" kind of value for a Lua API. AntumDeluge: So -1 isn't documented correctly? Warr1024: I mean, if you're working in C and the type is constrained to an integer and you have this whole negative range that can only have special meanings, it makes sense from that side Warr1024: but to a lua modder, the lua API looks like it's just lua, and the idea that it would have to be an integer doesn't make sense from that side. Warr1024: just nil would have made probably the best return value to indicate "just do the default thing"... Warr1024: either way, though, given that that IS the design, for better or worse, it sounds like the documentation could be improved... AntumDeluge: This might be where I read it, but not sure if it is meant to apply to detached inventory: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/c9144ae/doc/lua_api.txt#L4782 AntumDeluge: Looks like that is specifically for player inventories. AntumDeluge: Not sure if you were saying this was already implemented, but returning nil does not work: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: allow_put should return a number. Warr1024: ick independent56: what meterial would i use for a patwhay in sand? what in your experience has worked well? independent56: eh, gonna use baked clay independent56: 3.3 different inventory items independent56: K independent56: 3399 different ones independent56: my skyscraper is brilliant... its liek a big flat block of flats. independent56: https://imgur.com/a/MyTtunM independent56: here independent56: and you can see the other skyscraper, envious specing: roads look boring, terrain looks boring, skyscraper looks boring specing: and websites shouldn't require javascript to display images specing: Anyone can grab worldedit and copy paste the same boring floor hundreds of times independent56: i know. but i love that skyscraper. independent56: i am very proud of it. Warr1024: If you're planning on selling/renting space, you'd be best off just giving it away for free to early adopters until your world has reached a critical enough mass. Warr1024: Basically use network effects to make property values increase. entuland: would that cause the world to become a black hole and suck in the hard disk, computer, desk, user, room and so forth? independent56: lol independent56: i will sell them incredibly cheaply. like 10 currency units for an entire floor independent56: sorry, italic error Warr1024: It's a bit hard to sell space on a server that doesn't have a lot going on yet and actually charge players money for the privilege ... but then maybe you and Thorstein Veblen know something I don't. independent56: well, you get 30 mg starter cash. 33% of your money for a home isnt that  bad independent56: if you dont understand the pain of slef-hosting, think of how i sleep to the sound of computer fans every night. and blue lights shining on the table independent56: but i like the pain y5nw: Make sure you have adaquate fire protection there independent56: XD nah, if it overheats, it will automagically shut down * independent56: checks for temeperature-checking command line tools, so he can do that automatically Warr1024: you just need to host on a machine that's in a different room than the one you sleep in. y5nw: and remember to put some butter into the toaster and turn it on before you go to bed :P (seriously don't) AntumDeluge: Is there a maintained version of snowdrift? https://github.com/paramat/snowdrift logger56: ahrghhh fuck 56independent. he trats me like some dedicated server! i am not! i am just a samsung NC10 he treats poorly! why does he think i an suddenly host minetest? i will burst into flames, i fucking swear to god. Jordach: who let the shitpostbot get sentience in here j45: https://c.tenor.com/YQuM7wQo708AAAAM/ban-hammer.gif Warr1024: Nobody likes 56i, not even his alts. j45: xD * logger56: suffers form melatonin drunkness yet again AntumDeluge: I wanted to report an issue about effects not being shown through semi-transparency. Though, I'm not sure if it is an issue with the mod or with the engine. AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/853036651146903552/snowdrift_semi_transparency.mp4 sfan5: that's a longstanding engine issue AntumDeluge: Okay. logger56: i think clouds need to stop going insid ebuildings. my skyscraper's 40th floor is very wet because of all the clouds condensing. Warr1024: No, indoor air quality is usually way worse than outdoor, you WANT that ventilation. logger56: XD logger56: well goodnight, i want all the voices to go away /j Warr1024: Antum: your best bet is to use semitransparency sparingly. Fixing these problems would be Hard, so don't expect any miracles soon. AntumDeluge: I'm not worried about it. I just thought it might be an issue with the snowdrift mod specifically. So was going to report it. Warr1024: I keep seeing snowdrift as snowd-rift instead of snow-drift sfan5: systemd-snowd AntumDeluge: I am curious why snowdrift is no longer maintained. paramat archived the repository. Are the other weather mods preferred over it? I think snowdrift is the only one I have ever used. Jonathon: Paramat archieved everything Jonathon: Gotta look at the bigger picture AntumDeluge: paramat is not active anymore? Jonathon: his patereon said so before he deleted it, long time ago AntumDeluge: Looks like his latest activity on GitHub was a commit to minetest_game in may. Only two commits total this year. AntumDeluge: *May Jonathon: 🤷‍♂️ luizsabino: MinetestBot thank you, I see this pdf, but it's old, my router dont has the same options like fowarding port just virtual server and dmz, I setup both and doesn't work entuland: eheehh, the bot taking all the credit :P entuland: what's your router model? luizsabino: :') entuland I'm noob, sorry entuland: np :) luizsabino: my router is TOTOLINK A3002R v2 luizsabino: I'm start the server on terminal with minetest --server --worldname My World --terminal. Is right? entuland: the world name may not be okay entuland: the sample in the page I linked mentions "world_name" luizsabino: at localnetwork I connect entuland: oh okay, so it's not like the name should not have spaces or the alike entuland: if that works, then the issue is likely in the port forwarding entuland: which you seem not having managed to do entuland: I checked the docs there but there is nothing specific for that version entuland: check this one: https://www.totolink.net/data/upload/20190830/c3858219dc994df2396bb0fc0e4457e3.pdf entuland: see if it matches with your router admin interface Warr1024: you can have spaces in a name but you need to know how to quote things so that the command line knows the difference between spaces in things and spaces between things Warr1024: Port forwarding is often a mess, and often very hardware-specific and sometimes ISP-specific such that it's very hard to get outside help beyond testing and telling you if it works or not. Warr1024: I know at least one person who's behind strict NAT at the ISP level and thus is literally unable to open forwarded ports, and the MT server he runs at home relies on a VPN connection. entuland: fun times... sigh entuland: on some routers I had to telnet to even be able to change the DNS luizsabino: entuland yes, I do like the pdf shows. entuland: and I was lucky that such commands weren't even blocked luizsabino: @MT Warr1024: One thing you can do is try hosting something that's not MT, like a web server, and see if you can forward a port to that Warr1024: that at least will help you differentiate between whether it's the network or the MT setup that's your problem Warr1024: though of course that also assumes you have some idea how to set up some other kind of server entuland: they were able to connect locally, so I guess the MT server is running properly entuland: despite the lack of quoting around the name with space luizsabino: MTDiscord I understand you, something like lamp? entuland: s Warr1024: "locally" as in "same machine" or "different machine on same local network" Warr1024: it could also be a host-level firewall thing Warr1024: MTDiscord is the name of the relay bot; ya gotta look at the name after that Warr1024: Presumably it wouldn't be worth someone's trouble to pretend to be a bridge bot by just typing another nickname at the beginning of everything they say luizsabino: sorry Warr1024: np, just warning you so you don't get confused when it starts looking like MTDiscord is arguing with itself entuland: MTDiscord++ :P entuland: entuland, shut up luizsabino: I have a server at laptop and I connect from my phone, it's ok. But I need to be able to connect external my network Warr1024: okay, good, that means MT okay, and host firewall okay, only the router to worry about... entuland: work out the port forwarding first, now that you have the correct instructions Warr1024: router and ISP I guess :-/ Warr1024: if it's being blocked at the ISP level then that is extra annoying and the options to work around it get pretty lousy. Warr1024: I rarely see that though... luizsabino: this is my conf at router https://imgur.com/qgXtsfk Warr1024: Do you have the correct external IP? Warr1024: you go to like a whatismyip.com to get it Warr1024: also "service type HTTP" looks weird next to "port 30000" and "protocol UDP" so I'm hoping that's just a label and doesn't imply any kind of like protocol analysis or anything. entuland: probably it's just to autofill the ports entuland: the protocol should be correctly set to UDP luizsabino: yes I get, it's a dynamic ip but I allways check before test entuland: if you got the internal IP right as well, and if your ISP isn't doing dodgy things, you should be good to go luizsabino: about the http I guess weird too there is others options luizsabino: I suspect about ISP entuland: you tried already after doing those changes and it's still not working? luizsabino: yes since yesterday luizsabino: there is more options instead http https://imgur.com/XBWV2Ns Warr1024: one thing I might try is an external port scan service. I know grc.com has a port scan called "Shields Up" that will scan at least the first like 1024 ports or so and tell you which ones are open, closed, or "stealth" (no response) entuland: sorry, I'm still not sure whether you tried _now_ after setting up the port forwarding Warr1024: if you can get your ports to mostly show up one way, like closed, but a few of them come back as no response, then your ISP is probably blacklisting specific ports. A lot of them do that with the Windows File Sharing ports and stuff Warr1024: Yeah, you should probably retest now just to make sure your problem is still a problem. Make sure you get a fresh IP. Warr1024: IIRC you can get a free dynamic DNS name from minetest.land or something so you don't have to keep telling players new IP addresses every time yours changes Hawk777: The GRC scan also lets you enter custom ports, but I don’t know if it will do UDP or only TCP. luizsabino: I'm at GRC luizsabino: I don't know about this result entuland: that website may not be probing those UDP ports luizsabino: Please, see the result https://imgur.com/7a656Hn entuland: google "udp port test", you should get plenty of online services entuland: so that you can check the specific port you're opening luizsabino: if I want to host a server, what kind I should to find? VPS? entuland: no idea, sorry entuland: port scanning gave any result? Edgy1: what does response code 429 mean entuland: too many requests rubenwardy: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/429 Edgy1: I keep getting that on a new server Edgy1: have seen it on some others too Edgy1: perhaps I've exceded the limit? Edgy1: perhaps i should bind a few to a different IP entuland: Running any mods? entuland: (assuming it may even make a difference) ghoti: Edgy1: to be clear, were you getting a 429 error from *minetest*, or some other HTTP service? Edgy1: ghoti: servers.minetest.net Edgy1: I had too many servers announcing same bind. I bound some to a different IP and the problem went away Edgy1: almost all my domains are portable, thankfully ghoti: Ah, so you ran afoul of a rate limit in nginx. I don't know what protection servers.minetest.net has, but it's nice to see that it's not nothing. :) ghoti: I recall nginx having "limit_req_status" and "limit_conn_status" controls which are easy to set up. sfan5: @entuland btw, trying to probe UDP ports via scanning is rarely useful sfan5: it is possible and might work sfan5: but almost always you're better of testing if Minetest responds using !up sfan5: off* independent_: i find it funny that i use vodafone, and so does ywang XD and it's not even a monopoly XD entuland: thanks for the info, sfan5, but I'm not sure what command is that sfan5: belongs to MinetestBot sfan5: !up ctf.rubenwardy.com:30001 MinetestBot: ctf.rubenwardy.com:30001 is up (24ms) (IPv6) entuland: ah, nice entuland: !tell luizsabino you can use MinetestBot to check your server, run this without quotes in this channel or /msg Minetest bot directly: "!up your_public_ip_or_domain:30000" (suggested by sfan5) MinetestBot: entuland: I'll pass that on when luizsabino is around entuland: argh, I misspelled MinetestBot sfan5: I'm sure they'll figure it out entuland: eh, I wanted to get it right cause they were getting confused by messages relayed by MTDiscord yesternight :P erlehmann: does minetest have a maximum number of entities? sfan5: 2^16 sfan5: without protocol changes a server could be modified to infinite entities as long as not more than 2^16 are visibile to any given client sfan5: this is assuming you mean "number of entity instances in active blocks" celeron55: if you mean types of lua-defined entities, i think you're just limited by memory Liso: I guess ‭65.536‬ different visible entities is good enough xD IhrFussel: sfan5, what do you mean? What's the limit right now then? I thought that limit already only applies to visible/loaded entities IhrFussel: Don't tell me there is some hardcoded max value of entities stored in the DB sfan5: there isn't IhrFussel: Then why did you mention that a server would have to be modified in order to only count visible entities IhrFussel: Does it count entities per server session by default? sfan5: ??? IhrFussel: "without protocol changes a server could be modified to infinite entities as long as not more than 2^16 are visibile to any given client" << sfan5: it would be possible to modify the server to have more than 2^16 loaded entities, without modifying the protocol IhrFussel: OKay but in any case the server only counts visible ones towards the limit then? sfan5: only visible/loaded entities count toward 2^16 like I said celeron55: the global active object id value is 16 bit, and entities exist as active objects when they're not stored in a mapblock in their static saved state celeron55: when they're saved and inactive, they don't have an id at all celeron55: (except that a mod might give them an unique id for identification purposes) erlehmann: hey what is a regex to capture coords from logs for censorship? erlehmann: i mean erlehmann: redaction Warr1024: shouldn't be hard to do something like ((-?\d+)[,\s]+){2}(-?\d+) Warr1024: I wrote a tool that scrapes logs, finds all coordinates, and then prints out lines where the matching coordinates are within a certain distance of input coords, i.e. for finding stuff that happened near a place Warr1024: redacting logs is pretty easy though, I just use logrotate. Warr1024: To submit a request to have your info purged from the logs on my server, you just need to write your request on a slip of paper, light a pentagram of candles in a darkened room, and then burn your request in the very center. Your request will be completed within 5 days. Warr1024: Also on a side note the log retention period for my server is 5 days. erlehmann: shouldn't be hard to do something like ((-?\d+)[,\s]+){2}(-?\d+) erlehmann: LOL erlehmann: that does not work erlehmann: and yes erlehmann: everyone thinks it is easy Warr1024: It IS easy, it's just not SO easy that I can do it for you without actually looking at the problem. erlehmann: the problem is to redact coordinates in server logs Warr1024: The nasty part is probably accounting for various different format variations, like the different delimiters between numbers, parens, spacing, decimals and negatives, etc. Warr1024: Yeah, so go solve it Warr1024: and then once you do THEN maybe someone will have a regex to capture coords from logs. Warr1024: I don't have your logs, and I don't know what-all mods you have or how they present coordinates in custom log messages, so I can't really do anything from here other than give you a direction to look. Warr1024: that regex I gave you is probably a decent starting point and will catch some of the things, so you just need to adjust it to capture the rest Warr1024: It's probably a problem that has been solved before, but the people who solved it never published their results, and nobody would know where to look for them anyway even if they did. independent_: pls help pls, i have error and need help pls https://pastebin.com/fvHs3rPm sfan5: advtrains doesn't seem happy with a truncated or otherwise damaged file y5nw: Report that to the advtrains mailing list y5nw: independent_: try disabling strict loading. That was a known bug under Windows (afaik it has been fixed now) independent_: im not using windows and i dont know where and how? what is the config name? y5nw: Also for whatever reason the file descriptor(?) apparently gave nil when reading a line y5nw: independent_: minetest.conf y5nw: Switching to mobile y5nw: independent_: apparently you got an empty file, and serialize_lib does not like not having a header at all, I suppose independent_: so... what is the setting name? y5nw: serialize_lib_strict_loading independent_: thx y5nw: Except I just realized it might not help independent_: moment of truth.... independent_: loading my huge list of mods... y5nw: Apparently if you disable strict loading you end up either loading .new or an empty table independent_: i think it skipped the error, with soem red text and continuation y5nw: You should probably go ahead and read the warnings independent_: yay, conenction established! independent_: did, nothing important to me. https://pastebin.com/20MFu9uP independent_: aye, i fucking messed up y5nw: I literally told you that about a minute ago ... independent_: no, not that. the map.sqlite broke independent_: all my old areas no longer exist ;_; independent_: and i have likely overwritten the only version, unless i unzip a ZIP and see what exists of my server y5nw: I could try to make a mod that tries to restore data from corrupt/incomplete advtrains data, but that would be way later as I already have enough things to do and I don't think such a backup recovery mod would go very far in particular independent_: especially with my nonexistent knowladge of mienetst modding y5nw: Time to learn MT modding then independent_: "and the award of ths stupidest mientest server admin goes to.... 56independent for almost losing the map or overwriting it" y5nw: Not really. Once I literally did "rm -rf *" in my home directory ... (wasn't intentional though, and I ended up restoring from a backup and partly with testdisk IIRC) independent_: well... i dont think you are an admin, knowing how you are an active moderator of the laggiest server in all of minetest (although 56i-server is racing to try to win) y5nw: minetest.register_globalstep(function() while true do end) -- Problem solved independent_: does that disable minetest from doing anything? y5nw: No, except it just hangs the server since that thing infinitely loops (can't test it right now though) independent_: haha XD, laggiest server independent_: i mean //playable//, but also //not playable//. y5nw: Also I did host a MT server for a while, except it was mostly private (it was publicly accessible but had a default password and was not on the serverlist) independent_: hmm... a bit like me, just that it is publicly availible, but not on the server list. independent_: i think im going to cry as i have lost all of my progress online. i have lost the slow lowlands plot, and smallchurch. until i found the map,sqlite wich ws inide my trash y5nw: Plus, I'm quite sure there are more laggy servers than the ones I play on independent_: *find independent_: XD yeah y5nw: I was forced to make a backup (no, I don't do backups particularly often either) earlier today after I noticed (or, KDE, which apparently now has a disk status check) that the hard drive I use for /home might fail soon-ish independent_: i aim to make daily backups, using cron independent_: but i failed, and thus didnt lose a day of progres, an entire week of progress. y5nw: Afaik there are enough automated backup softwares out there if you are too lazy to make backups yourself, and I would recommend backing up to a different drive than the one you use for your MT world y5nw: and/or use RAID (I personally don't have experience with that though, but afaik it helps) independent_: i use my webbook as the server, and use scp+crotnab to pick up the crontab bakcups made on the webbooks independent_: i should automagically delete old backups, but then thats effort. effort i dont want to do. y5nw: Or compress them on the remote server (assuming the scp server you use can handle that amount of compression) independent_: i do, (relativelY) locally. i zip, then take the zip over y5nw: There are also backup softwares that do incremental backups y5nw: independent_: my experience is that xz and zstd produce better results (I haven't systematically tested that though, I simply concluded that after archiving some of my random stuff a while ago and noticed it) independent56: i made this joke https://pastebin.com/kE4hzr0s independent56: pleas laugh y5nw: Coincidentally I was working a bit earlier today on a patch to replace Arabic numerals woth Babylonian numerals :P y5nw: s/woth/with/ independent56: it was a cheesy joke i made in chemistry, text coming soon independent56: https://pastebin.com/8w6Jc2Ge independent56: https://pastebin.com/DYEJmHLx yes, i am looking for map.sqlite in exactly the wrong way. but it will eventually work. independent56: honestly.... was the map.sqlite staring in my face all day long? independent56: im testing,,,, god i hope it works.... independent56: aye, this is nothing like the previous drama. this time i ahve to claim full responsibility, and i have full access to the holder of all my work. independent56: haha, my backups are compound. they contain previous backups :man_facepalming: independent56: well goodnight, and i feel sad for the loss of map.sqlite independent56: http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=downtime:migration_failure independent56: here is the page about this mistake, so you can get a better overview. independent56: https://pastebin.com/Hg2um1f4 Zelic: Sorry to jump in and immediately ask questions, but is there anyway to get the groups information of what the player is currently holding? I have looked in the api and couldn't find what i am looking for. Jonathon: you can get the name and call minetest.registered_items[GETNAMEHERE].groups Jonathon: or if you want to check a specific group, minetest.get_item_group(GETNAMEHERE) Jonathon: GETNAMEHERE = player:get_wielded_item():get_name() Jonathon: assuming that you are using something that gives you the player Jonathon: else you can get player by doing minetest.get_player_by_name("username") Zelic: yes I have tried to use the | minetest.get_item_group() | function but it will only look for what is specifically called on. i am looking for a broad spectrum. Jonathon: i refer you to my inital comment Jonathon: "you can get the name and call minetest.registered_items[GETNAMEHERE].groups" Zelic: mhmm player:get_wielded_item() might work Jonathon: that gives you a itemstack, you need to name to insert into the above Zelic: Alright, I will try that. Thanks :) Jonathon: minetest.registered_items[player:get_wielded_item():get_name()].groups if you have a player/user else minetest.registered_items[minetest.get_player_by_name("username"):get_wielded_item():get_name()].groups Zelic: after ****get_name()].groups, how would you go one step further and look at the value of a specific group for the item? That is ultimately what I am after here. example I am looking to find the value of | crumbly | on the item i hold in my hand? Jonathon: `:get_name()].groups.crumbly Jonathon: or *:get_name()].groups["crumbly"] Zelic: Okay, that what I thought. Now to try to get this to work lol Jonathon: have fun Zelic: Ohhh I will, the rabbit whole of errors is so much fun 😅 independent56: hey yay! independent56: finallly, my logger account joins thmh: anyone played exile? is "Iron and Slag" a step in the right direction, or does that mean I did it wrong? calcul0n__: thmh, it is, you must smellt it at very high temp to get iron calcul0n__: place burning coal blocks around it calcul0n__: but i don't exactly how much you need and where is the best place, i just place tons of them :) calcul0n__: *don't know thmh: should have picked a spot with more trees calcul0n__: there are very big trees, i needed only one of them for the whole game thmh: you make it sound like cutting a big part of the tree doesn't influence fruit production calcul0n__: ho, i don't use fruits much, but i don't think it does anyway calcul0n__: iirc fruits only needs leaves around to regrow rubenwardy: Zelic: player:get_wielded_item():get_definition().groups rubenwardy: warning: get_definition() may return nil rubenwardy: if the item isn't defined rubenwardy: `local def = player:get_wielded_item():get_definition()` then check def and use def.groups rubenwardy: get_definition is a helper function for getting from registered_items when you have an ItemStack, they're functionally identical rubenwardy: well, I imagine get_definition would correctly handle aliases but reigstered_items probably doesn't independent_: hey... who is this "logger57" independent_: must be an alt username made automagically SwissalpS: has same ip as you.. independent_: must be thunderbird's silly stuff independent_: but same IP as //me//? oh wait we use the same router (i was thinking of privat ip :facepalm:) independent_: is registration disabled on mintest wiki, and if so, why? Jonathon: Yes, and read the forum topic independent_: link? independent_: are post-jokes allowed in the forum? independent_: i was thinking of satirically explaining a mientest feature sfan5: in doubt put it in the offtopic section independent_: hmm... thanks! independent_: what part of the section? they all look the same. should i roll a dice? independent_: meh, dice rolled 3, on-topic it is then. independent_: are swear words allowed? independent_: judge for yourself https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=26848 independent_: how do i make adtrains update the interlockig database? i have an error from worldedit-removed TCBs. and i have no ideaof where they are on the megaviaduct y5nw: Well, you should not remove TCBs with WE in the first place ... independent_: well.... the map kinda went "kaput" in that area, so i deleteblocks, and built a new viaduct. independent_: * logger56 (~Thunderbi@2.26.38.198) has joined independent_: * Talkless (~Talkless@mail.dargis.net) has joined independent_: are post-jokes allowed in the forum? independent_: i was thinking of satirically explaining a mientest feature independent_: https://imgur.com/a/3imenrE independent_: i think that worldedit should be more careful, and update stuff. otherwise we end up with broken maps. maybe a seperate command, for those without new machines. Warr1024: That's a responsibility of the mod that's relying on nodes to continue to exist in the world, not worldedit Warr1024: or arguably the responsibility of the server admin who is using non-in-game mechanics to modify the world and bypass the ability of mods to intercept and deal with those changes. IhrFussel: If WE would do all that it would be painfully slow y5nw: The thing is, you _could_ still set things up if you wanted to mess around with the savefile (or in-memory, since the save function apparently returns references to the DB tables) with advtrains, but that's not really the intended way of doing things. IhrFussel: It is so extremely fast because it doesn't have any checks independent_: lol hmm independent_: how annoying y5nw: I mean, you could also play MT with a hex editor (i.e. edit the map with it), but then you are on your own and you can't really get much help. If you don't do things the intended way then it's your fault independent_: XD yeah independent_: i am such a fucking idiot... but i was thinking, maybe i should get the posistion of these TCBs, place them, and then remove them "the proper way". independent_: how would i do this? Warr1024: The best worldedit could do is create some kind of API, like offering hooks that other mods can tap into to do mod-specific checks before WE changes are committed ... but that still leaves the responsibility in the hands of the not-worldedit mods, and they need to be specifically aware of worldedit Warr1024: Doing things the "proper way" would depend on the specific nature of the "kaputtitude" of that section of the map that led you do want to clear it in the first place. y5nw: And that's not easy to support. With advtrains there are also certain cases where you want the user to be aware of (for example, removing the train and track setups along with tracks) Warr1024: Arguably the best approach is a hybrid one where you use special nodes as controllers for performance reasons, but you also have secondary watchdogs to make sure those nodes can be regenerated if they're lost independent_: i want to fix the mainline noob express, and i need to find put the pissition of the removed TCBs. how? Warr1024: so if you need like a "controller" node attached to a network of other nodes, the mod should also do a slow scan for networks that have been damaged and are missing their controller and recreate one automatically independent_: or maybe i can set routes whilst pretending they exist Warr1024: I don't know much about trains specifically, but the general principle would apply to electricity mods and the sort as well. y5nw: independent_: try something like this: //lua for k in pairs(advtrains.interlocking.db.save().tcbs) do minetest.chat_send_all(k) end Warr1024: Any situation where you have a "network" of nodes that operate together and you need to run some kind of solver over the network, but don't want to have to recurse across the whole network for every node in it, that's sort of a Hard Problem of sorts. independent_: i cant understand the format and place to put that code snippet y5nw: independent_: MT command (assuming you can run Lua code with the WE //lua command) independent_: so i have to select a region as well, containf the TCBs? y5nw: no y5nw: It operates on the interlocking DB directly (should be safe, at least there isn't any write operations) independent_: phew! independent_: yay! independent_: "code succesfuly executed" independent_: next question: is there any downsides to large track sections, apart from large wait times at signals? y5nw: The thing is that TCBs are not really controller nodes from my knowledge (these are stored in a separate database in advtrains as well), but it marks a place where a track section ends and the next one starts, and while you could mess things up in the world (and I know such cases with "dead" TCBs), they should not really affect gameplay, regardless of whether there or not. (You can't remove them because it would otherwise be hard to find the y5nw: track section boundaries again, obviously) y5nw: (^ and that's purely from my knowledge and experience. If anyone knows the interlocking internals better than I do please correct that) y5nw: independent_: nothing in particular afaik other than that you will have to spend more time if you want to split the track section in the future (to add a junction, for example) independent_: haha yeah, it involves placign TCB, dissolving sections, deleting routes, remaking routes, and OH FUCK WHOOPS I DIDNT CANCEL THE ENTRY ROUTES! ahhhrgh! train!!!1! y5nw: Advtrains does have room for improvement in terms of splitting sections (except apparently nobody has the interest in implementing it yet) independent_: i would definately like to see automatic interlocking, where worldedit goes "yeah, i just place TCBs, make signals, set and make routes, yay! independent_: but it would be near to impossible to implement knowing my knowladge of minetest modding Warr1024: in theory the mod could be background-scanning stuff in the world (i.e. just detecting them via ABMs or something) and maintaining a database internally and just doing "solver" type things in there over time, e.g. detecting contiguous track sections and such. Warr1024: could be a hell of a rewrite of the backend logic though y5nw: Advtrains has a separate node database that it operates on. (And you can sync it using /at_sync_ndb). The problem with ABMs is that it should really be avoided on servers with large rail networks that have developed over years independent_: like linuxforks, and (in a year or two) 56i-server. independent_: *proud of his horribly lacking server knowladge* y5nw: If you really don't want to set up routes you should play OpenTTD instead (you would still have to build the tracks though) independent_: but... but... i like minetest! independent_: and routes are a necessary evil, like area protection independent_: https://imgur.com/a/ElCBHI3 <-- ABMs suck y5nw: The thing about manually setting routes is that it allows greater control over the setup (e.g. having separate tracks for various purposes similar to RL, or manually driving trains), and the fact that you can interact with it using digilines (etc) makes it involve more than just "go to (pass) x and drop/pick up stuff, then leave". (I enjoy OpenTTD as well, but sometimes I want to be able to see more than just the map) * independent_: thinks of making "//interlock" work only on straight track independent_: aye, https://pastebin.com/Lb3JHf9m independent_: fuck! independent_: tiem to anylise disk and remove unneded files independent_: *thinks of operating server on USB instead* * y5nw: suggests operating a server off paper tapes independent_: XD independent_: i mean, USB could have slow write/read speeds independent_: main problem... or i could just get a bigger disk and move everything from the first disk to the bgiger one. independent_: aghh fuck. i had a botched move job. fucking lost map.sqlite, and had to use local map saving to recover it. independent_: and i am trying to get backt he old map... backups! fucking backups! i need to do them daily, yet i fail. what an idiot i am. independent_: aye, i fucking messed up. y5nw: That's why you need to make backups ... independent_: i do! but i didnt check crontab once often enough. so i eneded up missing them. aye, i really fucked up independent_: and guess what was taking all the space? old backups in the bin ebcause i didnt manage their size well enough IhrFussel: How do you manage to mess up your maps this much while my map didn't corrupt once in 5 years despite thousands of crashes and lots of huge WE actions...sometimes the server even crashed during such WE actions but all was fine y5nw: Advtrains does not work well with WE independent_: XD independent_: i was moving to a usb, but i used cut an paste. then i skipped the file conflict rename process y5nw: Btw: if you make backups make sure to compress them. There's also the mapcleaner that hopefully reduces the map size as well independent_: haha yeah IhrFussel: WE doesn't work well with any mod that requires callbacks in order to function independent_: forgot to do "-compress 9" int he command y5nw: I said advtrains in particular because ... have fun fixing things up programmatically after WE'ing (at least I don't know any mod that fixes broken advtrains setups) Warr1024: Having backups only protects you from certain things; when it's human error that's the threat, you can often human error your backups just about as well as you can human error the thing it's backing up IhrFussel: So their map is not actually BROKEN just the rails and stuff are wrong after using WE Warr1024: To really have confident backups you need like 3 machines: the server, the separate machine doing the backups, and a 3rd machine that you test restoring the backups onto so that you can know whether you really have backups or just think you do. independent_: this is a seperate problem - i can live with fucked up interlocking, but not a missing map.sqlite. Warr1024: you still got the seed, so at least all you have to do is rebuild everything you did by hand :-) y5nw: (switched to mobile) y5nw: If you have the advtrains savefiles you _could_ theoretically rebuild part of the system (tracks, some signals, etc), but it is likely not what you expect independent_: hmm independent_: i fucking hate how minetest treats you: "make a backup of me or i will fuck up because of you" independent_: /hj y5nw: I mean "not what you expect" by the fact that underground tracks likely don't work because you need to re-dig the tunnels, and then you need to figure out where to place TCBs (afaik they are not in the node DB), the auxiliary Ks masts (if you have any, only the signal light itself is in the nodedb) and stuff like that. Warr1024: I mean if you don't want a thing to be destroyed, then not destroying it would be a good first step. y5nw: Yeah. Also: https://xkcd.com/2083/ :P independent_: XDXD independent_: i love british plugs! if only unpluged ones wouldnt become metal forks of death to step on. it fucking hurts. VanessaE: never stepped on a LEGO I see ;) Warr1024: https://www.brothers-brick.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/battle_strategies.jpg independent_: i have, but they are kind, flatty things. not the tall metal prongs of death wich are british plugs. independent_: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oeelectrics.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F10%2FUK-Plug.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 independent_: this is their default way. stepping on it is pain. pain that will have you curse the house down wwar: These are big and noticable never stepped on one, not like lego independent_: at night though, when you wake up and need the toilet? you will be in fucking tatters wwar: Nah, never stepped on one independent_: well, then you probably have never lived in britan Warr1024: You could, I dunno, just like not leave random plugs lying around on your floor Warr1024: The reason the trope is about legos and not about plugs is probably because the kind of people who do lots of stuff with legos are of an age where they may not be so responsible about cleaning up after themselves, but people who can be trusted to mess with electrical appliances should know better by then wwar: Yeah, when playing with lego we were... younger, but as you said we dont leave plugs on floor independent_: imagine this scenario: its night, and you unplug some appliance you are lazy, so you let it lie next to the extension lead. see the problem? Benrob0329: Don't most UK outlets have switched on them? Warr1024: All I see is a valuable learning experience Benrob0329: *swiches independent_: yes, they do. but i plug in an extension lead... and i dotn knwo wich one holds the cable to my server Warr1024: I don't think there is any kind of electric plug anywhere in the world that I'd love to step on in the middle of the night. The little NEMA-15 ones we have in the USA are no joke either. Benrob0329: independent_: Sounds like a problem easily fixed with a sticky note Zelic: Does anyone have a function to get the item name from what is currently in the players hand? I have tried to come up with it myself but I am new to all this. sfan5: name as in the internal name or the displayed description? Zelic: yes, I am needing it to call on that because I am trying to check against its groups Zelic: internal name Zelic: example minetest.get_item_group(get_hand, "snappy") I need the get_hand to check what the player is holding sfan5: I doubt you actually want to do that but here goes: player:get_wielded_item():get_name() sfan5: ah, yeah that makes sense there Zelic: i have tried something similar to that but keep getting "player" ( a nil value ) sfan5: well, do you have that variable? Warr1024: either you're doing it in an event where you don't have a player, or one where you could have a player but the action is being done by a non-player Zelic: No but then I add "local player = minetest.get_player_by_name()" to avoid the crash but do not get the desire result. Warr1024: looks like you're not passing a name though Zelic: okay, so I am missing something then. Like I said i am new to this and learning as I go. Warr1024: How are you finding out which player you need to operate on here? Normally you'd be given a player by the event your code is running inside. Warr1024: like often you'll have something like an on_use callback that has a "user" parameter that might be a player, an entity, or nil, and if you want it to be only usable by a player you can make sure that you've got a player first and just return immediately if the user is not a player. Warr1024: you generally don't just have code that does something with a player that's not inside some kind of callback context, especially since outside of those contexts, there aren't any players yet. Zelic: Alright I think I understand. I was trying to do the function before where I needed to happen. At least I think that is my current problem then. IhrFussel: Simply define your function as > function dosomething(name) ... end and then inside the code where you actually need it you call dosomething(playername) IhrFussel: Then 'playername' gets passed to dosomething as 'name' Warr1024: Sure but that does still just move the problem because ultimately you still need to know to do something based on some event that gives you a player or a name at least. Warr1024: usually you'll have a player, not a name; the name thing comes into play if a player isn't, or might not be, logged in, or if you want to delay an action and the player could log out during the delay, but those scenarios make things more complicated, so not great if you're just trying to start out. IhrFussel: You pass the name to a function if you need it more than the player object itself IhrFussel: But that was just an example either way Warr1024: Yeah, I think the key thing to remember that's not immediately obvious to new modders is that there isn't a such thing as "the player", it's "a player" and singleplayer even is just a special case. Zelic: I am simply needing it when the "drops" of a block are being decided. I am assuming that would be "on_drop" correct? IhrFussel: Cause they tried to use 'get_player_by_name()' in their code Warr1024: It's possible to go find an arbitrary player if you want, but usually you have to deal with the possibility that there are multiple players and only one is relevant and you need the event hook to tell you which one. Warr1024: I think "on_drop" is something different Warr1024: I think that's when a player is holding the thing and tries to drop it Warr1024: IIRC there's a "drops" structure for dealing with drops of a node when dug, and you're best off using that to do what you want, if possible Warr1024: as for customizing the "what does a node drop when dug" logic arbitrarily, it is possible, but from what I've seen, may be quite advanced Warr1024: though that MIGHT be a special case for me because I needed to decide on the drops at a certain time and based on information that the hook doesn't directly provide. IhrFussel: If you just need the node to drop as something else use the 'drop' field IhrFussel: Drop when dug* Warr1024: Yeah, where it gets tricky is if you have, say, a chest, and you want the chest to throw its contents (from node metadata) into the drops list when the chest is dug. MTG didn't even bother doing this, they just disallow you digging the thing until you manually empty it first... Zelic: Yea I am using the drop structure "drop = drops .. tostring(dropl)" is currently my set up for that which works fine as long as when those variables predefined such as "dropl = minetest.get_item_group(items:stick, "snappy")" but I cant define every single item Zelic: items : stick... Warr1024: I'm a bit confused, maybe if you explained this at a more high level it'd make more sense Zelic: okay one sec Warr1024: if you're, say, trying to make something that could drop any item from a particular group, that's a bit trickier, especially if you want to support items added to that group by other mods you don't necessarily depend on . Zelic: I already have everything that i want dropped predefined as shown here ( https://pastebin.com/0MS0FSuM) I just need the equation to do the math of what the player is holding so that way it knows how many of that item to drop Warr1024: oh boy okay Zelic: yea lol Warr1024: well, it's not just that your code isn't right for what you want to do Warr1024: it's that this is not an easy thing to do using the "drops" mechanic Warr1024: er, okay, wait Warr1024: you want to, say, have a "coal ore" node but instead of digging it and getting "coal ore" you want to get a separate coal item, right? Warr1024: so it's not based on what the player is wielding, it's just based on what's dug, right? Warr1024: THAT at least is what the drop property is for Zelic: correct so if the player is digging a default:coal_ore node what is the player using to dig it with Warr1024: you have so many things that are undefined though Warr1024: so you want the drop to happen only if the player is digging with the right tool? Warr1024: so like if they use an iron pick they get the ore but if they use a stone one they get some lesser prize, or nothing at all? Warr1024: arguably the "level" mechanic in the drop property would be the easiest way to achieve this, though obviously it depends on you using the "level" mechanic in your tool defs too Warr1024: If you're defining coal and iron ore then it seems like maybe you're not basing things on MTG so I guess you'd have to determine whether to use the MTG standards for tool definitions or do something less bizarre but also non-standard. Zelic: well that would work but this is building up to a bigger picture of a complete tool expansion idea. and no This is a complete rewrite of the base MTG Warr1024: as for the code: you in get_item, you take item as a parameter, but use name, which is not defined there, then set item but then don't return anything so setting item is meaningless. Then when you call get_item() you never pass anything in anyway. Zelic: sorta like enchantments but instead an endless tool combination where different components add different things like "luck" for how many drops you get Warr1024: So it sounds like you want to have a "luck" property of a tool (like an enchantment maybe but as an item group) and use that to multiply your drops Zelic: correct Warr1024: Personally the way I'd handle this is by monkey-patching handle_node_drops in builtin, since that would work across all drop scenarios, but I'm torn whether to advise you to look into that Warr1024: on the one hand, it's very tricky, but on the other hand, anything else you do as an alternative would probably involve a fair bit of tedium and wouldn't automatically "just work" with downstream mods that aren't specifically aware of that mechanic Warr1024: also, arguably, enchantments are better put in the item metadata, not in the item definition where the tool groups go, since otherwise you have to make an item definition for each combination of enchantments you want to be possible. Warr1024: None of this is particularly new-modder-friendly though :-) Warr1024: The simplest "not having to hack into weird obscure builtin/API internals" way to do this I can think of is to use an on_dig/after_dig hook and give the player the extra stuff that way... Zelic: Its fine, I have had this idea for a bit and finally sat down to do it. I am up for the challenge Warr1024: in that hook, you'll get the player, so you can inspect the wield item, and I think you get either the node that was dug or the drops, so figuring out the drops and duplicating them would be easy. Warr1024: (also, instead of straight-up multiplying the drops by a fixed amount, using an exponentially-distributed random value for the multiplier makes it a bit more exciting) Zelic: Yea. that would be better and I thought about doing that later once I got it to work in the first place lol Warr1024: Even if you're up for a challenge, doing things a weird way before you learn a more basic if not exactly smooth way to do it might teach you some bad habits :-) AntumDeluge: Was the minetest.settings object introduced in version 0.4.16? Browsing through changelog now, but haven't figured out exactly. I'm curious so I can set minimum version for my mod. Jonathon: at this point why even support 4x Warr1024: If it were me and I were still supporting 0.4 for those niche audiences, I'd still probably drop support for anything but the very last 0.4.17 version ever published for that generation. Warr1024: People who can run 0.4.16 but can't run 0.4.17 should be pretty rare, even if people who can run 0.4 but not 5.0 aren't necessarily... AntumDeluge: ContentDB asks for minimum required Minetest version. Warr1024: What is the oldest version that you actually tested the mod on? Warr1024: If you're just guessing that it supports a version that old then maybe you'd be better off just setting the minimum higher and not promising it works that far back. Warr1024: If someone really wants that mod on an older version, then they should be willing to do the testing for you, and then let you know that it's safe to lower the minimum version. Jonathon: This AntumDeluge: I'm not guessing. It's a simple mod that uses the minetest.settings object. There is just nowhere that specifies when that object was introduced. I think it was available in 0.4.16, but don't remember for sure. That's why I wanted to ask if anybody knew. Would probably be a good idea to make a notes in lua_api.txt next to features of what version they were introduced with. Warr1024: you could arguably diff the lua_api.txt file itself across the 2 relevant tags and see if settings is mentioned in that diff. Warr1024: We're sort of lucky when people remember to update lua_api.txt at all, let alone when they put history info in it :-/ AntumDeluge: Good point. Thank you Links. Warr1024: Heh, I think the discord/IRC bridge uses usernames, not nicknames, anyway. Warr1024: Apparently the current Name Thing in discordland is people naming themselves after browsers... Warr1024: There, I switched to something more obscure. luizsabino: Hello, I was here yesterday asking help to make a server in my laptop. I didn't get yet. I guess there are something at my router, it's a TOTOLINK, do someone knows that? specing: Now we know which brand to avoid entuland: do we have a bot here with "tell" abilities? Jonathon: yeah entuland: is it just "!tell someone something"? Jonathon: think so Jonathon: hold on entuland: k wsor4035: !tell entuland test MinetestBot: wsor4035: I'll pass that on when entuland is around entuland: nice MinetestBot: entuland: Jun-09 23:53 UTC test Jonathon: works entuland: !tell luizsabino did you check this page already about how to set the server up? https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server MinetestBot: entuland: I'll pass that on when luizsabino is around Jonathon: and yes, they did entuland: okay entuland: !tell luizsabino as it seems you already did, check the totolink website for documents like this (find the one that fits for your model): https://www.totolink.net/data/upload/20181101/6a055f35e275dcad5b705542773acc31.pdf MinetestBot: entuland: I'll pass that on when luizsabino is around MinetestBot: luizsabino: Jun-09 23:54 UTC did you check this page already about how to set the server up? https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server MinetestBot: luizsabino: Jun-09 23:57 UTC as it seems you already did, check the totolink website for documents like this (find the one that fits for your model): https://www.totolink.net/data/upload/20181101/6a055f35e275dcad5b705542773acc31.pdf TomTom: hehe today i discovered that minetest is/can be used for educational purposes in germany. this is the handout (in german): https://www.lmz-bw.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Downloads/Handouts/Minetest/Handreichung_Minetest_LMZ_2021.pdf celeron55: lmz-bw.de is a thing run by the ministry of culture, youth and sport in baden-wuttenburg? celeron55: and they have made an admin interface called blockalot celeron55: that's quite interesting gpcf: yes, very interesting celeron55: i'm going to guess in a few years most european countries will be copying what they're doing celeron55: and microsoft will be mad celeron55: https://www.lmz-bw.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Bilder/allgemeine_Bilder/minetest.jpg celeron55: i love it, there's a screenshot of a donald duck player model on their website celeron55: disney will be mad also gpcf: sadly no advtrains in that paper, so no sweet government cash for me and my friends celeron55: interesting to see what happens when MT in education circulates back into my country celeron55: microsoft has a head start but any competent state agency will know they'll save enormous amounts of money by just hiring some student to polish in MT what they need celeron55: also, the english wikipedia article on Minetest is still up Jordach: unfortunately for my needs can no longer be met with the engine Jordach: minetest can handle a lot of punishment Jordach: however, that comes at the cost of megabits per second of bandwidth use Jordach: i registered a few spikes up to 16mbps while testing Sven_vB: when I'm holding a stack of items, how do I drop just one? calcul0n__: Sven_vB, sneak+drop key (shift-q by default) Sven_vB: so I cannot safely do it while on the lower end of a ladder? my idea was to drop just one torch down the cave calcul0n__: Sven_vB, maybe climb a bit higher and do it very fast :) calcul0n__: another option is to split the stack in your inventory, keep one torch in one slot and drop it with q only sfan5: you can also do it from the inventory sfan5: by rightclicking the are outside of it sfan5: (with the stack held) Sven_vB: we really need some more modifier keys, so people don't abuse sneak for everything Sven_vB: is this just a client-side problem? could we make separate keys for "actually sneak" and "alternate mode whatever (formerly abusing sneak)"? celeron55: maybe the player character is just clumsy and that's why he drops from a ladder when trying to sort out his piles of items celeron55: 8) Sven_vB: celeron55, nice try for a lore-based excuse. still I'll continue try and improve the game. :) Sven_vB: it's such a nice rough diamond already, would be a pity if we couldn't cut it independent56: whats that mod that allows to sell areas with "land for sale" signs? independent56: oh wait is "real_estate" jluc: https://dev.minetest.net warns me of a security threat ! Hawk777: Looks like its certificate expired a couple of weeks ago. independent56: XD independent56: anyways, does "enable_local_mod_X = true" use the directory name or offical mod name? celeron55: jluc: i need to do some rework on the server, will take up to some weeks luizsabino: Hello, Is there any tutorial to run a server with personal computer? I tried with wiki but it doesn't work luizsabino: Hello, I was asked here about tutorial to run server on my pc but I restart and lost chat, anyone answered? Hawk777: No, nobody replied. You might get better results if you say something more than just “it doesn’t work”. That doesn’t really tell anyone what went wrong. specing: luizsabino: you can access this via matrix, with full history, but noone responded yet: https://matrix.to/#/#minetest:libera.chat?via=libera.chat specing: luizsabino: shouldn't be more than ticking host server and opening ports luizsabino: Hawk777 I understand. I'm on Kubuntu 21.04 and Minetest 5.4.1, I want to run a server eventually with my students so I setup the conf with port 30000 announce_server as true and number of users. I start at terminal with minetest --server --worldname CAIC World, but I can't see them in server list or typing my ip Hawk777: So if you try to connect by IP address, what happens? What error message does the Minetest client give you? independent56: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-06-08 independent56: logs independent56: anyways, you need to write "enable_server_announce = true" in your minetest.conf. then set a server name in minetest conf (wiki it up), and it should appear. you need prot forwarding enabled if you wish to make it accessible beyond the router. and typing the IP wotn make it appear, its mainluy a wuestion of luck if it works. independent56: wait until the ascii art "minetest" before joining. otherwise you will get a timeout. luizsabino: Hawk777 shows error: Connection timed out luizsabino: Hawk777 In local network it works, but out not Hawk777: And you are using your external IP address when outside the same network? Hawk777: Not the internal address? independent56: internals begin with "192" luizsabino: no, outside starts with 45 luizsabino: at localnetwork I connect no errors Hawk777: If you are using the external address when connecting from outside, and it works from inside but not outside, it sounds like your port forwarding is not set up correctly. independent56: try visiting your router's homepage, then go into firewall and do port forwading on port 30000. do it for the device you are hosting from. luizsabino: no I try internal with 127.0.0.1 independent56: internal wont work outside the network Hawk777: That is yet another different case. So, to clarify, have you tried connecting from a second device inside the same network? luizsabino: independent56 In router the firewall is off Hawk777: 127.0.0.1 is not your internal address. It is the loopback address, it only works from the same *computer*, not the same *network*. independent56: hmm... yeah try looking for port forwading in admin settings. Hawk777: Your internal address would start with either 192.168, 10, or 172. luizsabino: Hawk777 I tried with smartphone independent56: haha yeah, got confused between 172 and 127. luizsabino: hahaha yes, 127 I used at pc, from smartphone I used 192 Hawk777: You must not have connected to 127.0.0.1 with your smartphone. That would only have worked if the server were running *on the phone*. So can you please explain exactly what you tested (server is running on a computer, smartphone was connected to the same network, and which IP address you typed in the phone)? Hawk777: OK, that makes sense. Hawk777: You will need to set up port forwarding using the 192 address. Hawk777: Then you should be able to connect from outside using the 45 address. luizsabino: I set from ufw the ports 80 and 30000 independent56: if you're gettign confused, remember that networking is a horribly complicated subject. its alright. i am always asking myself "what the fuck am i meant/am to do?" Hawk777: UFW is a firewall on your computer, isn’t it? Port forwarding is done in your router, not on your computer. luizsabino: independent56 haha yes it's a complicated subject independent56: i am always screaming at the computer. i am currently shouting at XAMPP for apache not starting/stopping their way (i got apache to work, but not XAMPP? what the fuck??) independent56: oh and also, be careful with home-hosting. you //might// expose your network to security issues. and my network is much slower ow that i am running a server. and the server lags. Hawk777: To clarify: don’t undo the UFW configuration. You will need both. luizsabino: independent56 yes, your right. I'll use with some students and the ip is dinamic I can refresh luizsabino: I do a print from router I do something there https://imgur.com/a/4qVbkbO independent56: i am not knowladgable in this topic, but i think that extra players will reduce the share of bandwith. this way, 2 players make the server run hald as quickly, 3 a third, 5 a thift... so on Hawk777: That looks right to me, assuming 192.168.0.108 is your computer’s IP address (i.e. the same address that you used on your phone when you were able to connect). luizsabino: independent56 :-O oh my! It's very slowly independent56: here is my config page https://imgur.com/a/B7T9v0Q independent56: it is horribly made Hawk777: I think you only need TCP; I don’t think Minecraft uses UDP. But no real harm in enabling both. independent56: but it does the job luizsabino: Hawk777 yes, in smartphone I connect in, it's ok luizsabino: But outside doesn't work sfan5: Hawk777: wrong way around Hawk777: Whoops, I meant Minetest. Hawk777: Yeah I know Minecraft uses UDP. Hawk777: But I think Minetest is TCP? sfan5: nah, it would've been correct that way sfan5: Minecraft uses only TCP (as far as I know), Minetest uses only UDP Hawk777: Oh OK. Thanks. I play both so easy to get confused. independent56: i use ssh >:-> Hawk777: luizsabino: I wonder if that might be the wrong page. Can you show me what the NAT Mapping page looks like? Hawk777: It’s possible the page you showed is actually for preventing outbound connections from machines inside the network, not for allowing inbound connections. luizsabino: Hawk777 yes, just a minute Hawk777: That’s what the MAC Filter and URL Filter tabs would suggest, so the IP/Port Filter might be the same. sfan5: yeah "ip filtering" sounds like the wrong page luizsabino: Hawk777 it's empty, I should add minetest conf? Hawk777: I have no idea what it looks like, but if it looks reasonable, then yeah, I would try adding 30000 UDP to your computer’s IP there. And if that works, you should remove it from the other page, since otherwise it might prevent you from connecting from your computer to other Minetest servers on the Internet. luizsabino: sfan5 Should Idelete this conf? sfan5: yes luizsabino: I'll reboot router. I back soon luizsabino: sorry, I had a trouble, I'm back Hawk777 sfan5 luizsabino: I setup the router with NAT, please see the print https://imgur.com/8opqcsG Hawk777: That’s port 80, not 30000. luizsabino: but although that it not work Hawk777: You want 30000 for Minetest. luizsabino: I'll change luizsabino: :-/ no I get the error Connection timed out luizsabino: external and internal port has been the same, right? Hawk777: Yes. Hawk777: If you restarted your router, you made sure that your internal and external IP addresses didn’t change, right? luizsabino: I'll restart again luizsabino: but they change, I update on minetest and smartphone luizsabino: * changed and updated, on the past, sorry Hawk777: When you got the connection timed out, using the external IP address, were you trying to connect from inside the network or outside? Hawk777: E.g. if you tried from your phone, was it connected to your own network’s wifi, or was it connected to a different network (cellular data or something)? luizsabino: Hawk777 yes, I turn off wi-fi connection on smartphone and connect with data Hawk777: Have you checked whether you can connect to other Minetest servers using data connection? Hawk777: Also, after changing your router settings, have you checked that you can still connect from inside the network? luizsabino: no, let me try luizsabino: yes, I do luizsabino: I connect in SurvivalGo Hawk777: And connecting to your server from inside the network still works too? luizsabino: yes, from 192... Hawk777: I don’t know then. That Virtual Server tab looks like the right place to set things up, to me. luizsabino: it's complicated,but thank you Hawk777 independent_: first independent_: and this late??? wow... independent_: i have far too many worlds. and far too many mods. is there an automated way to read through world.mt and remove mods that are disabled? or do i have to live with this verbosity? sfan5: sed '/^load_mod_.*= *false/d' test/world.mt -i independent_: thx independent_: hello! i am operating a server. now, i have a question. creative mode is disabled, but i have all the privs. why cant i mine stone with bare hands? sfan5: Minetest Game? does 'creative' appear in /privs? river: maybe your in adventure mode independent_: hmm independent_: im trying independent_: but the network? SLOW. independent_: turns out my network wont allow my server to run ;_;. it only crawls. independent_: sfan5, it does. independent_: oh noe independent_: mum is struggling.., minetest server is stealing all bandwith!. independent_: and so is logger56 independent_: +ping independent_: hmm... ping is very high independent_: would be nice if client loading intto muliplayer servers whilst it was loading would just hang, and wait for the server o ge ready gh00p: Hi there. Is there a solution to the issue of apostrophes (and a few other characters) not being available in the macOS version of minetest (and at least some forks)? I have searched and found mention of this a few times, but no solutions. Sven_vB: gh00p, where are they not available, or what does it mean? does the chat input field not react to them? gh00p: In Minetest 5.3.0, 5.4.1 and MultiCraft 2.0, apostrophes are ignored in chat. They can be pasted in (copy to clipboard, ^V in MT), just not typed. Tildes also behave strangely. i haven't tested all keys. gh00p: Tildes appear to pull a previous chat line from history .. I can get details on that one if you are interested, as it may be a related issue (I don't know), but apostrophes are my particular interest at the moment. Sven_vB: I can't really help with that, unfortunately. Feel free to report it on GitHub. maybe there already is an issue for it, maybe even with a workaround. basxto: mhm, adding proprietary libraries should be possible independent56: hmm... yeah, someone would just go change the source and add libraries for fixes, and keep those libraries propietary, whilst keeping the main source open. maybe they make a script ot change the original source to one they can use. would that be legal? Gael-de-Sailly: Hi, I don't understand the difference between minetest.set_noiseparams() and minetest.set_mapgen_setting_noiseparams() sfan5: set_noiseparams modifies the general settings, you could use it to set a variable of any name (e.g. for your mod) sfan5: set_mapgen_setting_noiseparams is what you need to correctly replace parameters that belong to the mapgen Gael-de-Sailly: okay so set_mapgen_setting_noiseparams acts in map_meta.txt and not set_noiseparams ? sfan5: yes Gael-de-Sailly: thanks Gael-de-Sailly: what I want to do is writing in map_meta.txt (copy values from minetest.conf or my mod's defaults) if they are not already present, or just load them if they are present. how to test whether a setting is present or not in map_meta? Gael-de-Sailly: (btw is map_meta adapted to store values other than core mapgen's settings?) sfan5: it's not Gael-de-Sailly: so I should move to an independant Settings file independent56: *independent independent56: i know how to spell my username Gael-de-Sailly: haha thanks :) Gael-de-Sailly: in french it's "indépendant", that's why independent56: in russian, its независимый independent56: so you can see that it is different, by a lot independent56: and i do think that "he3abncnmbin" is incorrect spelling. Krock: well. map_meta.txt could be abused to store world-specific settings Krock: not that it's recommend it in any way, but it would be possible independent_: what is the nodestring for rubberbands? it is very annoying. i want to remove it, by "//replace rubberbanding air". i causes my trains to go everywhere, explode at junctions, and stop-start on straight track. Krock: F5 info Sven_vB: someone should renew the TLS cert for dev.minetest.net Sven_vB: can a texture pack fix a mod-custom glass so its textures connect? Jonathon: i dont think so Jonathon: however if the mod used the correct drawtype, you can enable a client side option to connect it Jonathon: Sven_vB https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1140 MNH48: > someone should renew the TLS cert for dev.minetest.net MNH48: we should really make a bot that count how many times people reported that, lol Jonathon: with a day counter to see how many days it has gone unfixed Clexane: and another counter to count how many people care Clexane: 🙂 Clexane: a metacounter! Jonathon: well, wouldnt that technically be the same as people who have reported it? Clexane: yes, well, don't get technical Clexane: technical confuses me Jonathon: :thonkeyes: wwar: And a bot counter that counts every bot that counts things like that Clexane: who is kilbith? Jonathon: also goes by jp Jonathon: maker of xdecor, i3, some other mods, and has done formspec work and other commits to the minetest engine Clexane: oi! let me chat in the dev channel please? Jonathon: no, read #rules-info MNH48: [off] You need to be ranked Regular or higher to chat in dev channel , or you can download IRC client and join it that way Clexane: even if I spent a million hours developing minetest? Clexane: If I, as a developer, cannot chat there then... hmm Clexane: @wsor I was a core developer sfan5: you'll have to convince someone who can give you the right Benrob0329: @Clexane What were you known by? Clexane: Zeno Clexane: Craig Robbins Clexane: sfan knows me Clexane: so does every other dev on IRC Benrob0329: Can you confirm from your IRC account please? Clexane: what would you like me to say to confirm? 🙂 Clexane: or, would you like me to commit a change? (I won't do that) Benrob0329: A "yes" would suffice, its just a precaution Clexane: I've said yes as \c Benrob0329: I've given you the core dev role, you should be able to talk there now specing_: The discord walled garden gardeners busy at work building a higher wall^ Benrob0329: The hell? Do you ever do anything other than complain about either Discord (the company) or MTD (the community that's been built on the platform)? Sven_vB: somehow I can't make transparency work for some glass in my texture pack. so I tried with default MTG glass and that didn't work either. should this work in a texture pack's override.txt? I'd expect 75% transparent sandstone look but it's not transparent at all --> default:glass all default_sandstone.png^[opacity:64 Sven_vB: it does have the sandstone texture though, so the file is understood - partially. Krock: Sven_vB: wrong node definition. set use_alpha_??? to "blend" or something along those lines Krock: also idk whether override.txt accepts modifiers at all Benrob0329: specing_: -hub and -dev were both +V on Freenode, so we have a policy where new users must participated for a bit to show that they aren't a troll, data collection or spam bot, etc before being able to talk in those channels. Sven_vB: then someone should fix lua_api.txt because it has the literal example albeit with half transparency: default_sandstone.png^[opacity:127 Sven_vB: Krock, wrong node definition where? in MTG's glass block? but that one is transparent when I comment-out my line in override.txt Krock: Sven_vB: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L2811 sfan5: unless set in the nodedef nodes are either fully or non-transparent Krock: use "blend" there Sven_vB: oh I see Krock: i.e. override that value sfan5: (per texture pixels that is, 75% gets rounded to 100% and 25% to 0%) Sven_vB: thanks! Sven_vB: so I cannot make partially transparent glass with just a texture pack? sfan5: not for MTG glass Krock: if that were possible, you could change stone to transparent too Krock: which is kinda... cheating Sven_vB: well I'd expect stone has no transparency at all Krock: and semi-transparency still sometimes results in weird rendering, hence it's only useful in a few places Krock: thus full opaque or full transparent are "better" choices Sven_vB: ic Sven_vB: thansk for explaining :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 040xLiso -> 03minetest/minetest: Shadow mapping render pass (#11244) 13c47313d https://git.io/JZvNr (152021-06-06T16:51:21Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfence -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix problem with sharing table in door nodes Lua definitions 137050094 https://git.io/JZfLK (152021-06-06T17:24:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04AntumDeluge -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix incorrect documentation of "default_coal_lump.png" 13c96cc55 https://git.io/JZft6 (152021-06-06T17:25:30Z) Sven_vB: When I point straight west (yaw 90°, pitch 0.1°) onto a wall about 8 blocks away from me, my crosshair is a good length left and above the center of the targeted block. can someone confirm this for their client? Sven_vB: when I aim at the center of the block, it shows yaw 88.2°, pitch -2.3° entuland: Sven_vB, how would one go to reproduce it? Sven_vB: entuland, it probably happens in any game. to exactly reproduce, use MineClone 2 on MineTest 5.4.1 on Ubuntu focal. Sven_vB: if you have trouble aiming west precisely, decrease mouse sensitivity entuland: mainly meant where to look for those values Sven_vB: oh, in the debug view Sven_vB: F5 by default entuland: so you aim in the middle "by eye" Sven_vB: yes. you can also use xdotool mousemove_relative -- Sven_vB: that way you don't have to leave the world and change settings Sven_vB: oh, nice, X server zoom works as well independent56: hello! i am back home. please test http://2.26.38.198/dokuwiki for me, and tell me what you see. i need someone to see if the wiki works. Sven_vB: independent56, did you know? you can use the TOR network for such tests. independent56: hmm Sven_vB: I see a wiki with some text and pictures independent56: i just want to show off my stuff, and disguise it as a "test" Sven_vB: I see. independent56: Sven_vB, try looking at other pages via the sitemap Sven_vB: nah, maybe when you get a domain that looks more permanent Sven_vB: at least a dyndns domain entuland: uhm... not sure I get it to repro entuland: for one, the POV doesn't seem to be perfectly at 1.5 above the feet position Sven_vB: that might explain the pitch offset entuland: if I am right in front of a block, in order to aim at the 8th pixel from the bottom (which is exactly 16px total in my textures) I have to aim up almost 6 degrees in pitch entuland: the yaw could be due to the player not perfectly on a 0.5 coordinate on the NSWE directions Sven_vB: odd, I can aim at the 8th-lowest pixel with pitch -0.5 Sven_vB: good point. I'll adjust NSWE Sven_vB: nevermind, I stood on a carpet entuland: :) Sven_vB: thanks for testing :) entuland: yw Sven_vB: does MineTest v5.4.1 have a mouse sensitivity setting for the crosshair? it seems the difference between pitch 0.1deg and -0.1deg is 1px, so my pointer cannot aim more precisely. Sven_vB: I see, it has gh00p: Hi there. I'm trying to migrate from sqlite3 to postgresql, following instructions I've forum posts. Everything goes swimmingly for the blocks table (--migrate), but players and auth are reporting an error that suggests I have not set pgsql_connection. gh00p: Is there something special about how pgsql_connection should be set for --migrate-players and --migrate-auth ? Hawk777: gh00p: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10187 Hawk777: There are separate settings for the backends; you want pgsql_player_connection and pgsql_auth_connection gh00p: Hawk777: I owe you a case of beer. gh00p: It worked. :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix check that given IRRLICHT_LIBRARY exists 1346f42e1 https://git.io/JG5L1 (152021-06-05T11:36:52Z) Telesight: And here we are ;-) Telesight: I want to shrink my players.sqlite, players older than a year must be removed. Can someone point me to the code to make these changes? ROllerozxa: well it's essentially just a sqlite database. in the player table there's a field called modification_date that seems to signify the last time the player was online. in that table, just doing a DELETE FROM where modification_date is older than a specified time should be enough, but there's other tables that you would probably like cleaned as well independent56: grr. why does https and ssh get their own acronyms? here is my proposal: "mge&s" (minetest game engine and server) independent56: or MGaS, or MGAS, or MGS. whatever the community chooses ROllerozxa: MT? MTG? calcul0n_: mtg is the usual acronym for minetest game independent56: oh yeah independent56: i am so silly Pexin: Magic The Gathering??? :O AntumDeluge: Well, I think the mod that I JUST made is obsolete now that I discovered StorageRef. 😫 AntumDeluge: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=26804 basxto: how do client side mods work, do I understand it right, that they have to be installed manually and aren't supported by the mod installer? Krock: yes Pexin: basxto: you also need to enable client mods in the conf independent56: tomorrow, i //may// be able to upload my server and wiki using port forwarding. thats if i get home before i fall asleep. independent56: but defs on monday independent56: if i made a fork with propietary, great features, and sold binaries for a few £, willl i be shunned? rubenwardy: that would be illegal rubenwardy: well, unless the features are in Lua only AntumDeluge: I noticed that the workbench mod has been archived ( https://github.com/minetest-mods/workbench ). Is there an alternative/fork/replacement? independent56: wdym, "illegal"? independent56: thats the point of open siurce, ability to modify and add to source. rubenwardy: we use a copyleft license, which forbids you from closing the source sfan5: though note if you were to sell a fork only people who have bought it have a right to receive the source Jordach: fun tip Jordach: one cannot PGP sign their binaries as that violates the GPL rubenwardy: doubt Hawk777: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GiveUpKeys says the opposite. Jordach: incorrect Jordach: GPL legally states the exactant binary must have a source Jordach: that's just a statement saying they won't pursue action if you do Hawk777: “Is it true that GPLv3 forces me to release my private signing keys?” “No.” Hawk777: That’s a statement on the nature of the license, not on whether someone will pursue you for such a violation. Hawk777: You may say they’re wrong, but they *claim* it’s a proper interpretation of the license itself. Jonathon: because its in xdecor Jonathon: note for the irc people, ^ is replying to antumdeluge Jonathon: it literally says it in the description rubenwardy: our android APKs are signed AntumDeluge: @wsor xdecor removed the workbench. Jonathon: @AntumDeluge https://github.com/minetest-mods/xdecor/blob/master/src/workbench.lua how about no AntumDeluge: I'm sorry, I'm mistaken. Jonathon: you can disable it however Jonathon: which i would recommend if you have moreblocks Jonathon: because it literally wastes tons of node registrations otherwise AntumDeluge: That might be why I thought it was removed. I might have it disabled. independent56: oh... i meant that if i keep it open, but compile with my own library added on. is that still legal? specing: you can GPG sign binaries and this is often done. The signature is detached in a separate file, though Sven_vB: Why would world exploration cause lag for all players, even those in long-established chunks? Can the map server not just lock the to-be-generated chunks until it receives the data from a map generator thread? Sven_vB: also is there a way to mark freshly-placed blocks as not yet confirmed by server? I hate when I fall down because the block I was standing or climbing on disappears for a brief moment, only to then re-appear Sven_vB: if the preview would look different, I could at least know how long to wait before I step on it Sven_vB: waiting entire 5 seconds on each step would be safe but so much waste of time in most cases exe_virus: Shout-out to Wuzzy: your doc_modpack is really useful! I've extended it slightly, so now I can just feed it plaintext files to generate documentation (and autogenerated locale/template.txt files) but it works like a charm for full in-game documentation. I might actually create a fully documented game with 80 mods in minetest within a month now, rather than.... never haha. Thank you! erlehmann: wuzzy is best Jordach: yes and no Jordach: some of his mods are fucking red headed problem childs Jordach: wheres the fucking nil checks erlehmann: Jordach even that has a silver lining erlehmann: someone griefing your base? crash the server! independent56: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826159362225209406/850268815559229440/Screenshot_from_2021-06-04_08-04-12.png independent56: please help... wth?! independent56: i couldnt possibly disable moreblocks. too many buildings have it as a dependency. thmh: I've seen this error too Callinicus: Howdy folks independent56: please help? Callinicus: Could you retrace your steps and perhaps find a conflict? Did you recently install a new mod? Callinicus: I'm no expert on this but that's generally what I can be traced back to. Otherwise if you've an apt for it refer to the debug text document referenced. It may tell you more directly about the issue. independent56: ok' independent56: 50 mb of pure text 0_0 Callinicus: Ah okay. Well it says there that panes.lua on line 9 is the culprit, where 'xpanes' is specified. And it doesn't seem to know what that is? You haven't disabled any sort of components within the mod itself? Or did it just randomly occur? Callinicus: If your builds to rely heavily on the panes within moreblocks you could try disabling those specifically and see if you can load up Callinicus: Don't rely* Callinicus: Unless you want to check out the Lua file and tinker a bit. Be sure to make backups of your world and this stuff before trying anything, you don't wanna lose it thmh: iirc this error just appears randomly, and I could restart the world without issue thmh: *rarely Callinicus: Hm. As I said I don't know much about Minetest in general. Error messages I understand though lol Callinicus: I'm recently getting into minetest as a platform to host my art thmh: that's very cool Callinicus: Pretty soon (sometime tomorrow) I'm going to seek out the authors of two particular mods Callinicus: See if they're not opposed to me using their mods to build upon, fix some discrepancies I have with them and add upon what I view as incomplete. Callinicus: I know it's all open source and I'm free to fork if I will but I think speaking to the authors goes a way Callinicus: I'm interested in creating accurate representations of the Roman architectural wonders in Minetest. Callinicus: Kind of a hobby of mine, lol Callinicus: Not Roman architecture but fascination with the Romans in general. independent56: hmmm... 99% plagarised. independent56: (my yesterday'sworld.mt vs today's) Callinicus: That the Romans syncretized works that came before their own is no secret, but to deny that they had a great part to play in what would become of those works is fallacious. They exhibited a fascination, a pure sense of conservation in the wisdom that of the peoples they savagely conquered, and in the knowledge of past peoples. Callinicus: They committed many misdeeds, but for all the misdeeds they committed they are almost redeemed in that (even counting the body of works destroyed by their own hand) the written records they passed on of these civilizations and peoples has been immortalized... By their conquerors. Callinicus: And we can thank this record for many ideas that have become mainstream today. Callinicus: As well as the continuation of western civilization as we know it. Callinicus: I find beauty in it, that's all. thmh: yeah the romans definitely improved the state of mankind, art, technology, and wellbeing. hard to argue against that. independent56: yay works Callinicus: I think that it's often the case that even those who committed many misdeeds in Rome, as politicians or bankers or what have you believed that they could make the world a better place. Many fought for righteousness in a swamp of villainous characters, some so inclined to malignancy due to the same misfortune. independent56: haha worledit tower i made a few days ago independent56: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/826159362225209406/850278386597494794/Screenshot_from_2021-06-04_08-42-03.png?width=1081&height=608 Callinicus: Sorry I'm ranting, lol independent56: idc, only about artichecture, not society Callinicus: Isn't the fascination in architecture fueled by the sense of mystery that the onlooker experiences when faced with a building? Or the sense of calm, intricacy, even fear that a work inspires Callinicus: I think that has much to do with society. Callinicus: Architecture is art Callinicus: I enjoy art. independent56: meh, for me its just "nice minetest world to look at" erlehmann: independent56 regarding the xpanes bug, it could be that you have maybe two xpanes mods? independent56: hmm erlehmann: like one out of the modpack independent56: its all fixed erlehmann: another one separately erlehmann: oh how independent56: homedecor Callinicus: I had an interesting experience earlier today Callinicus: I removed a mod after trying it out on my world, of course I got the unknown node block that I then broke right Callinicus: Well, it left an invisible node right above it that I couldn't remove for the life of me. It acted like a solid block but my cross hair wouldn't highlight it. I had to use /deleteblocks or whatever the command is to get rid of it lol Callinicus: But I did resolve it Callinicus: Ghost nodes are weird independent56: use worldedit stick thing and "//set air" next time Callinicus: I actually tried to and it wouldn't work. I had to manually input the coordinates of the node Callinicus: Worldedit thought nothing was there Callinicus: It makes me wonder if after I removed the mod the game freaked out and just turned the space above it into an ignore node. Callinicus: Because worldedit won't remove those as far as I know. BigBear: Hey folks don't know who looks after this stuff, but just a heads up - dev.minetest.net server certificate needs refreshed from let's encrypt (it expired 25th of may) BigBear: Also on the forum the sticky/locked topics 'How do i install mods' is pointing to a page that has been removed https://dev.minetest.net/Installing_Mods instead of https://wiki.minetest.net/Installing_Mods Callinicus: I had no idea the Minetest worlds were so small until I played on a server the other day and wound up walking to the edge of the map while looking for an unexplored area lol Callinicus: Took a couple hours but it happened. independent56: XD independent56: they are'n small. independent56: it takes around an hour to inspect track on the WBX independent56: and thats with fast fly being 100 m/s independent56: gtg independent56: was fun talking. erlehmann: is it just me or are users and admins on servers that have money mods a bit hostile to both "hey can you give me stuff" and giving away tons of free stuff? BigBear: the earth has a total surface area of 510 million km squared. By default Minetest has a world size of 3844 million km squared if i did my sums right. Perhaps on whatever map someone deliberately reduced the size (it is settable) cheapie: BigBear: MT's world is a bit over 60km*60km, so about 3600km² I would think. BigBear: oh crap yeah i screwed up confuzed m with km BigBear: its 3844 km2 lol too early in the morning for me, so it is slightly bigger than hong kong. Emerald2: Does anyone else find rollback check keeps spamming air -> air to the point you can't actually find out who messed with a node? cheapie: I've seen a few air→air entries before, but not at a level that I would call "a lot" Emerald2: I get so many, and also from walking light if somebody is carrying a torch, that I often can't get any useful data. Emerald2: Because a bunch of people walked over it causing loads of air -> air. erlehmann: Emerald2 do you have some dynamic lighting mod? cheapie: Ah... yeah, walking light is... not a great idea, for a few reasons. Emerald2: Why's that, cheapie? Emerald2: I'm not sure which mod we're using to have the torchlight, it's nice and smooth though. cheapie: Tends to be rather laggy in multiplayer, most of them tend to be rather buggy, and it's probably the cause of your rollback log spam too. Emerald2: Ahh, we're using illumination. Emerald2: Doing some testing I teleported to an unexplored area where nobody has walked. If I jump up and down on a node, it starts the air -> air spam in the rollback check. Emerald2: Carrying a torch back and forth on it causes the illumination:light_mid to air and back. Gah. cheapie: I did suggest ages ago that there be some way to specify that certain set_node() (and similar) calls not be recorded in the rollback log, for this exact reason, but there didn't seem to be much interest and AFAIK it was never implemented. Emerald2: Wow, that's sad. They really should implement that. Sven_vB: hi :) Sven_vB: How can I make the cart mod tell the MT client that the current trajectory is only valid up to (coordinates of rail turn)? The idea is that in case of lag, the client shall freeze movement at the rail turn until it gets the new trajectory, rather than (seemingly, for a few moments) crash through the wall into the ocean. sfan5: such things are not possible (yet) AntumDeluge: Sorry to be a nag, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. sfan5, SmallJoker, or rubenwardy, if you could look at my pull request again ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11202 ), I think the Action / change needed tag can perhaps be removed now as I made the requested changes. AntumDeluge: IRC/Discord bridge is down. Has the Freenode channel been abandoned? AntumDeluge: Ah, I see the wiki directs to irc.libera.chat now ( https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC ). AntumDeluge: Aha! Though you all could hide from me. :p Jonathon: No brbridge? Jonathon: @Benrob0329 no idea how long you where planing to keep the bridge up sfan5: the bridge was intentionally decomission sfan5: ed Jonathon: Ah ok Callinicus: I suppose to your average player the world size in MT isn't small, but to someone who's used to playing MC anarchy servers where the initial objective of the player is to get not 30,000 nodes away from spawn but often hundreds of thousands of blocks away, meeting the world border so soon was a big surprise to me lol Callinicus: I did look into the limitations of the engine and now understand why that's the case Callinicus: Luckily there's no possible way that little discrepancy gets in the way of what I'm trying to accomplish in the engine. Callinicus: So it's practically a meaningless qualm Supersonic: hi, does anyone have numbers on how much CPU/RAM/network traffic is required per user on a minetest server for ~700 players or if that's even possible/reasonable? specing: depends on mods and you aren't getting close to 700 players Sven_vB: sfan5, should I open a feature request for trajectory validity information? Supersonic: specing: ok; mods are not yet planned, but if at all, there won't be any heavy ones. Do you mean 700 players are unrealistic for a single server in terms of general performance for the minetest server or in terms of numbers of players that might use it? specing: Supersonic: both specing: if you have only most basic and simple mods, you won't get much players at all Supersonic: ok, sorry, I didn't phrase the question well: we're thinking about doing an university introductory event where people should be able to run around together and solve small riddles Warr1024: If you can actually compel roughly 700 people to join an MT server at the same time, that server is probably gonna have a bad time. I don't know what the exact numbers should be, but if you have the ability to break things up into groups and run multiple independent servers, you might have an easier time of it. Warr1024: You could, say, setup a test server and do your development and testing on it, then load it up with test players to see what its limits are, and then for the actual even, spin up a ton of clones in some cloud service, and then assign each participant to a server or something. Supersonic: all right, thanks for the estimates, we'll set up a test server and try which resources are necessary :) Warr1024: One of MT's big scalability limitations is that it can't effectively spread its work out onto an arbitrary number of cores; something like 80% to 90% of its workload (or possibly much more depending on mods) ends up in a single thread. A lot of independent servers on single-core VMs would probably utilize CPU resources a lot more efficiently than trying to run one world on a big multi-core box. Warr1024: Conversely, though, more instances may be somewhat less RAM-efficient since you're duplicating more basic stuff that could otherwise be shared. Warr1024: Also, the exact level of isolation (VM vs container vs process) may matter, I guess. It's all a bit of a tricky balancing/tuning act. Warr1024: I've only ever run small servers with like 10 players or so myself. I think there are serious server owners out there who get like an order of magnitude more players, but I'm not sure what it costs them or how much fine-tuning there is to do to handle that many... sofar: the tuning needed is mods - mods can blow up a server quickly if badly designed or just doing things that are resource intensive sofar: everything falls down if your mod is not scaling well MinetestBot: 02[git] 04srifqi -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: Do not submit text after pressing Enter key for multi-line t… 1340acfc9 https://git.io/JGDN8 (152021-06-04T19:22:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add metatables to lua vectors (#11039) 138f085e0 https://git.io/JGDNB (152021-06-04T19:22:33Z) AntumDeluge: Woohoo!!! Sven_vB: Soni, TLS is TCP based. MT uses UDP Sven_vB: Soni, there's a proxy though that wraps the UDP in TCP; you could then wrap that in TLS Sven_vB: do we have chat commands to set noclip, fast etc.? I prefer not to assign buttons because they're too easy to hit accidentially. also I'd rather set them explicitly, not toggle them. Hawk777: DTLS is UDP. Sven_vB: oh ok Sven_vB: is there a way in singleplayer to allow me to fly but not noclip? Jonathon: you can use privs or keybindings..... Sven_vB: are privs game-dependent? because I cannot find a noclip priv in MineClone2 Jonathon: depends Jonathon: noclip and fly are from the engine Jonathon: you can also just toggle the key bindings for fly and noclip as well Sven_vB: yes, I might have to use them then Jonathon: you can revoke yourself privs... Jonathon: . /revoke singleplayer noclip Jonathon: i have noclip bound to h Sven_vB: I tried /revoke and /revokeme: https://abload.de/img/noclipepjbn.jpeg Jonathon: and can you still noclip? Sven_vB: yes Sven_vB: well, meanwhile I assigned the key, pressed it, and unassigned it Noclip[m]: Looks like I am a hot topic right now. Got a ton of pings from Sven_vB and Jonathon ... Noclip[m]: xD Noclip[m]: But in general I'm actually pretty surprised that I don't get pinged more often in this room. Noclip[m]: It's actually pretty rare. Sven_vB: Noclip[m], maybe lots of others lack the privileges :) Noclip[m]: xD independent56: hello. i have a singleplayer world that i am working on, for multiplayer. what tasks will i have to do to retrofit it for multiplyer use? ROllerozxa: well I don't think there'd be anything that would need to be done? ROllerozxa: other than possibly moving player data from "singleplayer" independent56: yay! independent56: what about protecting areas? i have already done that, but i can see how it would be a problem for others. twoelk: if those areas are assigned to "singleplayer" you might want to create a special user on the server that is used to "own" infrastructure or public places like servershops twoelk: and of course reassign those things to the new "pseudo-players" under admin control independent56: haha wtf worldedit? i made a tunnel to the world border using worldedit... within 5 minutes independent56: by doing //set air //set default:stone and yeah... wow! independent56: if only there was an //interlocktrack independent56: aw.... the walls and floor arent stoned :-/ specing_: What's interlocktrack? independent56: avdtrains joke independent56: a command to automatically do all the interlocking and routesetting for you independent56: what i love about open source is that if some corrupt guy becomes core dev, and make hundreds of annoying changes, people can just make a fork and play there instead, Danil_2461: same independent56: is it ok to use named_aypoints in multiplayer servers? or does nobody use it for a certain reason? calcul0n__: independent56, i use them when they are available, why would it be a problem? independent56: i just dont like the screenshot.. the raw data seems a bit rough and ready calcul0n__: hmm, i'm not sure we're talking about the same thing :) independent56: https://content.minetest.net/packages/FaceDeer/named_waypoints/ independent56: this. independent56: it is an optional dependency of magma_conduits, so i was thinking about it calcul0n__: ho i see, not those i was thinking about Danil_2461: heyyall Kimapr: independent56: so far most forks of minetest have died, only one survived comrad: a couple of days ago i've asked for write permission to the wiki. i would like to add systemd service units and dockerfile descriptions to the server pages Krock: give Calin00u a friendly punch independent56: big worldedit oopsie, hadto use rollback. and its lagging the window intensly Krock: feels sad man independent56: fuck, rollback isnt working. maybe deleteblocks and hand-working? sfan5: rollback does not apply to worldedit independent56: 0_0 independent56: it did to edit blocks, my god, what a stupid assumption independent56: wait how to rollback deleteblocks 0_0 sfan5: rollback does not apply to deleteblocks either independent56: everything is fucked up now independent56: i completely broke my stone station Krock: backups independent56: daily... and fuck! independent56: damage i small enough, i can replace it independent56: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/805028651820384279/850096563383697468/Screenshot_from_2021-06-03_20-32-09.png?width=1081&height=608 Krock: easy copypasta independent56: what copypasta? wwar: gotta lean how to use worldedit in singleplayer before using it in your server Jordach: or build everything by hand Jordach: dabs independent56: or use edit blocks and face the lag independent56: it only took like 20 minutes of game time to build a wbx independent56: i love worldedit independent56: worldedit has spoilt the way i build. i no longer make the most painstaking details to heart. i build long, boring viaducts, they are just a big stone platform with rectangles feeding off it. independent56: i cant eblive advtrains is limited to 44 mph. even the british rail network can hit those speeds. "german-made"? bollocks. if it was truly german, then it would go at 150 mph, or 67 m/s. Krock: independent56: https://www.reddit.com/r/specializedtools/comments/k25ez7/p/gdsb6ya Krock: looks more like 0.05m/s to me specing: CSM WorldEdit :P specing: independent56:^ independent56: why do europans get to go at 120, whilst british only 70? independent56: grr, how dare our roads be so slow /j Ingar: well they drive on the left side, how dangerous can you be independent56: XD independent56: we get by just fine. it feels natural using the left. not right (urgh) independent56: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/826159362225209406/850120559840722994/Screenshot_from_2021-06-03_22-14-50.png?width=1081&height=608 independent56: ahh help pls AntumDeluge: What is the distance a player must be for an ABM to be active? AntumDeluge: Does that make sense? It appears to me that ABMs are only triggered if a player is a certain distance. AntumDeluge: I don't see anything in the API about it. Hawk777: active_block_range seems relevant. Hawk777: “The radius of the volume of blocks around every player that is subject to the active block stuff, stated in mapblocks (16 nodes). In active blocks objects are loaded and ABMs run.” Hawk777: That’s a setting, BTW. independent56: ok... so i added a large fork to my advtrains network, and now, the trains are no longer interlock-locked 0_0 independent56: they arent queing up over and over sections. independent56: but now the trains ake longer to wait for at stations. but its a hoice between two eils: waiting for a train inside stations, or waiting behind signals. comrad: hi there, is there a known channel for mineclone2? thmh: yes, #mineclone2 (according to wiki) AntumDeluge: Thank you Hawk777. comrad: thanks thmh comrad: apparently that was too obvious for me ^^ Danil_2461: hey people! Sublayer plank: hey there! Danil_2461: ey Danil_2461: im back again Danil_2461: first time using irc :> Danil_2461: lul Sublayer plank: nice :> Danil_2461: hmmmmm Danil_2461: is anyone bere? Danil_2461: here Danil_2461: i guess not Sublayer plank: I'm here :) Danil_2461: :D Danil_2461: uwu Danil_2461: finally finished verifying the acc,bruh twoelk: o/ twoelk: \o * twoelk: detects a minor lag in discord->irc whosit: "hypertext[0.5,0.5;6,2;text;I think]" - seems to eat space between "I" and "t", it happens when first word is 1 letter long, and with other tags too whosit: can anyone reproduce? entuland: whosit, I can confirm it happens to me as well, but it doesn't seem to be strictly tied to the size of the first word and it also happens to do that randomly entuland: the same form displayed multiple times one after the other may or may not eat such spaces entuland: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/849634995487899728/2021-06-02_15_05_12-Window.png entuland: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/849635029704769596/2021-06-02_15_03_39-Window.png entuland: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/849635048793571378/2021-06-02_15_04_44-Window.png entuland: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/849635062152560691/2021-06-02_15_03_57-Window.png entuland: I'm pretty sure I've seen it eating the space in the third line as well at least once, but I didn't screenshot it entuland: all the above come from the same run, just opening the form over and over again Danil_2461: h m m m whosit: entuland: thank you, I noticed it some time ago, but was not sure if it was a typo, then was not sure if it's just my version... entuland: can't tell about the version, only tested in 5.4.1 entuland: yw Danil_2461: hello again Soni: any plans to support TLS/DTLS? entuland: as long as you can get your hands on the proper landline to perform the extraction, that is Jonathon: heh independent56: hello. independent56: my world almost died. first i made a huge block of tn and ignited it. i tried removing it with deleteblocks, but the next mornign, lerge parts of spawn died. i deleted blocks by "pos" in the database. it must be chunk id... but luckly i had an untampered database. everything is fine. independent56: i belive that homedeor should be made more interactive - flushing toilets, fillable baths, usable pans. sfan5: decor is short for decoration ;) independent56: oh independent56: ;_; independent56: might as well make a fork called "homemod". with all the interactivity you need Noclip[m]: Most importantly flushing toilets of course! Noclip[m]: How can a game be good without having flushing toilets here and there? independent56: yes! i mean, are we going to let our waste just sit there?! Noclip[m]: So you also plan to add "generating toilet waste" into the game? thmh: I'd just flush my leftovers from cooking, and end up with a clogged toilet Noclip[m]: Please name your mod "Toilet simulator" then xD independent56: no... it will be developed with eevrything else. the stove is not a furnace. it only cooks group:food independent56: but yeah... every now and then you are teleported to the toilet, loud fart noises are played, you have to flush, then it teleports you back. Noclip[m]: independent56: You're currently falling into a lava sea. Just before you touch it: Game teleports you onto a toilet, some farting sounds appear, you flush the toilet, game teleports you back to the lava and you die. Awesome! independent56: XD independent56: deadly poo! independent56: wait how reove irc message? /j Noclip[m]: Or you just stay onto the toilet forever because you don't want to get teleported back to the lava. Noclip[m]: As far as I know you can't delete messages on irc. independent56: i know, i was joking Noclip[m]: Ah, that's what the /j was meant for? independent56: yes independent56: make alt > build over lava sea > finish pooping on main account > get teleported onto water Noclip[m]: cheater xD independent56: Ingar a game without cheats is a bad game independent56: quote Noclip[m]: "a game without cheats is a bad game" Noclip[m]: Try nodecore then independent56: lol independent56: i hate that game, too hard Noclip[m]: Cheating will probably just make it 10% easier :D independent56: XD Noclip[m]: Minecraft: destroy stone with fist Noclip[m]: Nodecore: destroy fist with grass independent56: real life: where are my shoes??? independent56: real life: fuck it, i will go out in socks... ugh mud! Noclip[m]: Sounds painfull ... independent56: lol Noclip[m]: Maybe not for the first 5 minutes but try doing that a whole day. Noclip[m]: I think you aren't even allowed to drive a car without shoes. Noclip[m]: At least not where I live. independent56: yeah... i prefer barefoot. and im not allowed to drive a car with or without socks (im 14) Noclip[m]: Mhh, I'm totally not used to walk around without shoes. I usually wear slippers at home. independent56: me too Noclip[m]: What's your opinion about walking on (big) stones barefoot? Do you prefer that, too? independent56: i prefer it to walking on pebbles. pebbles are the devil on feet independent56: as long as "big" means >20 cm. Noclip[m]: Big mainly meant bigger than sand xD independent56: oh independent56: i thought you meant boulders, the type used in shore protection independent56: i literally spent 43 minutes of my life griefing a copy of my world... why am i such a machoist? MNH48: I think you meant 'masochist' Noclip[m]: independent56: When I was your age I just did the same but with Minecraft. independent56: lol independent56: im gonna keep this world, and on april fools, put it on >:-> "where did all ym buildings go" Noclip[m]: And compared to what I did 43 minutes is really not much! independent56: "SPAWN WAS GREIFED HELP PLS" independent56: "lava everywhere" independent56: then on the second of april, i will upload the griefing video. Noclip[m]: One or two years ago I "reorganized" a friends server on 1. april xD Noclip[m]: (Together with another friend.) independent56: lol.. on april, as the peak of players join, i shutdown the server by simulating a failure (turning off the wifi on the webbook), backup the world, and start greifing. players come back on, and they see me griefing everywhere >:-> independent56: then i restore the backup after making players cry Noclip[m]: Well we didn't really "grief" our friends world. Noclip[m]: It was more like a big "reorganization" ... Noclip[m]: For example we replaced a mountain's dirt with netherrack. (was a Minecraft server) independent56: lol Noclip[m]: And we "moved" half a forest from outside the citiy into the city. independent56: /replace default:dirt default:netherrack independent56: XD independent56: ~ //move x 200 Noclip[m]: No no no, we did all of that by hand in survival mode! independent56: 0_0 independent56: use worldedit! Noclip[m]: We didn't had any special privs xD independent56: i thought minecraft didnt have a priv system, and it was just "player gets worldedit creative mode" or "player gets worldedit survival mode" Noclip[m]: independent56: Without mods/plugins minecraft has normal players and admins. We were both normal players. independent56: hmm Noclip[m]: Also it was a lot of fun doing that by hand xD independent56: i remember when i was a noob, i didnt know about the priv system. i was like "why not can i fly?". but now wheneve ri start a world, i do /grantme all. it works. Noclip[m]: Unfortunately that friend never talked with us about the server after that ... Noclip[m]: The friend just behaved as if the server never existed. independent56: XD independent56: i'll never have this problem because i have no friends. Noclip[m]: Ohhh independent56: i need to automagically kill people if they reach a certain y co-ordinate. is there an easy way to do that? i am making a singlenode map, wher eyou are not allowed to suicide jump, Noclip[m]: If suicide jump isn't allowed you should make it kill them?! independent56: XD if you jamp, oyu would be falling forever independent56: its singlenode sfan5: http://sprunge.us/9GVYbm?lua independent56: thx sfan5: killing isn't instant but it sounds like that's okay for your usecase independent56: thx independent56: its amazing. it starts at y=-100, and then players die at -250. all within 10 seconds of falling. independent56: wifi is going :-/ Noclip[m]: independent56: And just before they die they get teleported onto the toilet xD specing_: Has there been a discussion somewhere about move from freenode to libera? Noclip[m]: What? You are currently on libera! specing_: I know specing_: I just wanted to know if this was discussed somewhere. I can't see anything on the forums thmh: specing_: have you checked the logs? https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/ celeron55: frankly the need to move from freenode to libera was so obvious it didn't need much discussion specing_: I wish abandoning Github and Discord was also so obvious thmh: ^ specing_: Which I pointed out back when #minetest was still on Freenode, but of course some proprietary networks are fine, while Leenode is not specing_: Obvious? celeron55: you don't need to be on discord thmh: specing_: tbf, freenode is still bridged, so it's no different with discord. specing_: thmh: yes, but I'm pointing out that the move to Libera is not as obvious as you say it was celeron55: our tactic in this mess is to bridge everything, it's our best bet to try to keep the community together celeron55: not being on something would just make more separate communities, people don't leave discord if MT isn't officially there specing_: thmh: and freenode is not bridged celeron55: i've yet to see a proposal of a github replacement that has all the features we need, isn't proprietary and doesn't come with a huge hosting and/or development burden celeron55: so get to work specing_: salsa.debian.org Benrob0329: Freenode is practically burning itself down, I think its pretty obvious. celeron55: specing_: that's the most reasonable proposal so far Jonathon: Celeron55, any plan to update the certificate for dev.minetest.net? Jordach: c55: unfortunately because it's debian i don't think it'll get patched outside of once or twice a year celeron55: ehm... well it's on my todo list Jordach: specing_: Benrob0329 Discord is already a heap of rubble specing_: https://sneak.berlin/20200220/discord-is-not-an-acceptable-choice-for-free-software-projects/ celeron55: discord is completely out of question for a primary network for MT, you don't need to worry about that specing_: It should be out of the question as a secondary one as well specing_: Or tertiary.. or anything, really celeron55: it was unofficially created and persisted for years celeron55: there's no way for us to stop it specing_: also celeron55 https://git.sdf.org/humanacollaborator/humanacollabora/src/branch/master/forge_comparison.md celeron55: denying its existence just makes us look stupid and divides the community celeron55: and limits contributions specing_: sr.ht probably also has feature parity specing_: You don't have to deny it's existance. You can ask people to use either Matrix or IRC or XMPP or .... specing_: And that they are on their own if they use discord specing_: (And also terminate the bridge to here) celeron55: sourcehut doesn't seem like something that's necessarily very long lived sfan5: sourcehut is probably one of the better ones in that list sfan5: https://git.sdf.org/humanacollaborator/humanacollabora/src/branch/master/github.md this page is funny celeron55: who runs sourcehut? and since when? specing_: Drew Devault (ddevault on irc) sfan5: drew devault, a few years iirc sfan5: first point on that page: a survey shows people don't report bugs when there is no other option, the survey: n=34, conducted in a niche community on mastodon sfan5: then later the page somehow brings climate into this (?!) sfan5: also various points about Microsoft being bad for human rights and democracy, while the list you first linked lists gitee.com (Chinese) as an alternative that ticks all boxes specing_: sfan5: that's true on N=1, as I have been boycotting GitHub for years now sfan5: the second point of being tor-hostile is misinterpreted/bogus by the way; sign ins from a new location have been emailing you verify code for a while specing_: My only contribution is to pipeworks on gitlab.com (which is also proprietary, but they get somewhat of a pass for maintaining gitlabCE) specing_: All I can do for minetest is develop client-side mods celeron55: the obvious better alternative to github is going to come eventually. anyway, i do trust the debian project and gitlab does have quite some features, which makes it reasonable even without looking at any comparisons celeron55: i mean, which makes debian salsa reasonable sfan5: I thought that was only for debian maintainers and projects IhrFussel: I hope the CSM API that is not controllable server side stays as it is honestly celeron55: specing_: they seem to be open to any open source projects that are packageable for debian celeron55: sfan5* sfan5: ah sfan5: anyway last thing to my previous point: needless to say I cannot take that list of hosters without ethical issues seriously celeron55: anyway, the question then, as we need developers, not politicians, is, how many developers would we gain vs. lose by switching from github to salsa.debian.org specing_: celeron55: I know that you do partially use GitLab, as the Minetest repo has .gitlab-ci.yml in it (which works on my fork) specing_: IhrFussel I've extended it somewhat, but plan to eventually rebase on dfc/ws IhrFussel: If the client decides to connect o a certain server it should obey what the server wants to an extent where the INTENDED gameplay doesn't get altered client side IhrFussel: Any pure CSM that could be used to give you an unfair advantage over others that don't use the CSM on the server should be forbidden...that's my stance Jordach: nerzhul wrote that not c55 specing_ Jordach: and quit the zealotry Jordach: that shits old as fuck and cringy Jordach: a shit stain no amount of scrubbing can remove specing_: What Jordach: gitlab-ci is from nerzhul Jordach: FOSS zealotry is boring and outdated sfan5: wut sfan5: the gitlab ci script is acticely maintained sfan5: as is the mirror on gitlab Jordach: > (And also terminate the bridge to here) specing_: Jordach are you an official representative of Discord, Inc? Jordach: no specing_: Because you definetely sound like one Jordach: somebody who cares more about users freedom than have it revoked by an unelected twat Jordach: free to use whatever they want Jordach: ethical or not specing_: IhrFussel My stance is that it is up to players to decide whether they want to respect rules or not (and get banned). I do not plan to restrict technical capabilities just because some of it might be used for cheating. Your stance (that is shared with many server owners) is holding back technical progress and that is bad. IhrFussel: Banning would be an option if you could DETECT CSMs that violate rules server side, but if you don't plan to let servers know what the client is doing exactly on its own your point is moot IhrFussel: It would also be somewhat unfair to not include such a feature since server-sent CSMs will definitely have that (a prompt that lets the user decide whether or not they want to connect to that server and runs its client mods) specing_: Well, you can. You just don't have it implemented and are blindly trusting the client. This is a bug in the server (or a feature?) and a not a client-side problem. Noclip[m]: xD Noclip[m]: freenode just fell apart in just a few days ... Noclip[m]: celeron55: Did you close the freenode room or did freenode do that "for you"? Noclip[m]: Freenode is practic"> Jup Noclip[m]: xD Noclip[m]: Jordach: Debian's release cycle isn't that fast xD Noclip[m]: Did I miss something? Which technical capabilities are we talking about here? specing_ IhrFussel: Well there are the csm_restriction_flags but the client needs to be honest for those to work sfan5: ShadowBot: 🤔 IhrFussel: And someone who wants to give the client more control over server gameplay could easily "forget" those specing_: IhrFussel the restriction flags only tell the client to restrict the currently very limited API IhrFussel: The end result is the same...the server can tell the client whatever it wants if the client weighs client control over server control and just ignores any restriction flags IhrFussel: Now I don't claim that your fork does ignore such flags but it would be super easy to do that Noclip[m]: Ehh: "ShadowBot has kicked this user from #minetest (Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.)" independent56: could you guys not chat so much? it is a pain to read the logs. /j Noclip[m]: Is that a bug? sfan5: Noclip[m]: no idea why it did that tbh rubenwardy: independent56: you don't have to read all the logs :D independent56: XD rubenwardy: also, bouncers are useful independent56: just the onces from when i left independent56: "bouncers" rubenwardy please explain. Noclip[m]: xD Noclip[m]: Or just use matrix that is it's own bouncer. independent56: Noclip[m], "independent56: you don't have to"> xD rubenwardy: A bouncer is a piece of software used to have rollback logs on IRC independent56: where it cuts off is halarious rubenwardy: yeah, you could also use matrix rubenwardy: rollback logs is when you connect to a chat software, and see the messages whilst you were away rubenwardy: ZNC is a popular bouncer that works with any IRC client Noclip[m]: Would it ban me the next time? rubenwardy: I use Quassel, which has a builtin bouncer-like software called Quassel-Core. It works well with multiple IRC clients rubenwardy: but Matrix has this functionality builtin as well Noclip[m]: But you need to self-host bouncers. In case of matrix your homeserver does that for you ... rubenwardy: yeah that's one benefix independent56: why do i need a bouncer when logger56 exists? Noclip[m]: independent56: You don't need to. If reading the logs isn't an issue for you than just go with that. independent56: lol yeah independent56: Noclip[m], "independent56: you don't have to"> xD i love how this cut-off quote just completely captures me XD Noclip[m]: Yea, brided answers are a bit confusing. specing: Noclip[m]: technical capabilities as in client-side wielded light and other things that could be offloaded from the server specing: IhrFussel the client should always value client control over server control, because the client is ultimately running on player's machine and not on the server. specing: IhrFussel and in any case, the cat is already out of the box. Players can already download a client that respects their preferences above that of the server independent56: /join ##geeks independent56: wait wait independent56: etf independent56: hey independent56: (i was testing whether i was still dmming nickserv) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: fontengine: Fix crash loading PNG/XML fonts from paths without dot 13e15cae9 https://git.io/JGu1j (152021-06-01T17:47:41Z) independent56: is there a worldedit command to update blocks? "//update"? if i worldedit lava, it wont flow. if i move becons, they wont shine. they need to be pdated. SoniEx2: any plans to support TLS? SoniEx2: (or DTLS as may be the case) Noclip[m]: !join #guix independent56: !join ##geeks independent56: nope independent56: irc hates me rubenwardy: /join ##geeks rubenwardy: with no space before rubenwardy: you can also just click the channel name, usually independent56: yay haha i am stupid AntumDeluge: If I need to add some custom linker flags, do I just append to CMAKE_CXX_STANDARD_LIBRARIES/CMAKE_C_STANDARD_LIBRARIES? Or is there a different option I should use? sfan5: cmake_exe_linker_flags sfan5: (but uppercase) AntumDeluge: Okay, I see it. Thank you sfan5. sfan5: !tell entuland the chat uses mono_font_path and please test with 5.5.0-dev or your bug report won't be of any use MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when entuland is around independent56: !tell independent56 that i am just testing, sorry MinetestBot: You can tell that to yourself independent56: passive agressive... go away MinetestBot: entuland: May-31 06:45 UTC the chat uses mono_font_path and please test with 5.5.0-dev or your bug report won't be of any use entuland: sfan5: I'm trying to find compiled binaries of 5.5.0-dev, in other project clicking on the "Build: Passing" icon of the Readme brought me to the automated builds, doesn't seem to be the case here entuland: if I'd need to build it myself from scratch I'm afraid I won't be able to sfan5: https://gitlab.com/minetest/minetest/-/pipelines sfan5: menu to the right of a pipeline, pick the "package:win64:archive" artifact entuland: thanks! entuland: followed up to the issue with the 5.5.0-dev test, unfortunately same behavior exception made for copypasting italian accented letters that seems to work ludwig: Hey, I hope you are all well. I just got into minetest, as I was searching for a libre voxel game. I started with mineclone2, and now me and my friends have built a lot of very cool infrastructure. Now as I understand the minetest ecosystem a bit better, I want to have more of the "real" minetest, as in use more mods. A lot of those mods add to mapgen, but we already explored the map to *wide* extends. Is there a ludwig: streamlined way to get the mapgen mdos to load their blocks into the already existing world? ludwig: or do I have to make a complex sql statement for the blocks table? ludwig: (to delete the already generated blocks outside of a certain area( y5nw: Do you mean something like "/deleteblocks"? (warning: it's destructive afaik) ludwig: uuuuh let me research that command ludwig: well kind of the opposite, i want to preserve the region with our stuff and delete everything else ludwig: since we need the ores of the new mods for example, but dont want to lose our houses, bridges, etc ludwig: alternatively to create the ores after the chunks were already generated ludwig: smth like "DELETE FROM blocks WHERE x<[..] AND x> [..] AND y<[..] AND y> [..]" ludwig: @y5nw do you know if, when I install a mod with mapgen influence, delete a range of blocks, the newly generated blocks respect the new mod? y5nw: I suppose they do ludwig: Hmm, then I am just gonna do that four times, thanks for your input :) independent56: hello. when i make my map public, then a lot of things will be owned by singleplayer. how do i move ownership of singleplayer's things to 56independent? y5nw: I think that depends on what you are moving wwar: a lot of things like what? Protectors? entuland: run a search and replace in the database 😛 entuland: well, on a copy of it if you really do, may screw it up 😇 entuland: some stuff may be stored in the world storage files (I have at least one mod that does that and writes player names there) CWz: seems freenode is done CWz: false alarm BuckarooBanzai: !tell independent56 "/protector_replace " https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/protector/src/master/admin.lua#L36 (just for the protectors) MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when independent56 is around whosit: is there's no way to preserve default item behaviour (punch/dig) on left click, but do something else on sneak+left-click? Krock: whosit: register a on_punch() callback for example. although sneak is usually used to skip special actions to allow digging whosit: on_punch() seems to be for nodes and items use on_use() ? I can't call some default function there, like I can with on_place() by calling minetest.item_place(), it seems IhrFussel: My server just segfaulted @ EmergeManager::getCurrentMapgen() ... could a num_emerge_threads > 1 setting cause that? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add open/close sound gains to the Doors API, balance sound levels (#2… 13ddebdec https://git.io/JGRL7 (152021-05-31T19:43:33Z) Krock: whosit: on_use() is called on the item you wield to punch a node. on_punch() is the node that you punch MinetestBot: independent56: May-31 18:31 UTC "/protector_replace " https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/protector/src/master/admin.lua#L36 (just for the protectors) independent56: hmm independent56: i might as well crtl+f the database independent56: im moving EVERYTHING. from a singleplayer to a multiplayer world. advtrains data, door data, travelnet data, even the kitchen sink of data. entuland: independent56, well, right after you left I suggested searching and replacing in the DB, it was more of a tongue-in-cheek remark but depending on how the data is stored, may be just fine entuland: beware that some mods store player names in the world storage files independent56: i know... i check the logs! entuland: oh okay entuland: didn't think about the logs at all :P independent56: and yes, i do know about the storage files. i edited the one for currency to get 10 M independent56: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-05-31 independent56: here entuland: in some cases things may go south if data is serialized in a way that stores string length along with the actual string (IIRC PHP serialize() does that, for instance, and makes it nasty to do such replaces in serialized data) entuland: no idea if there is anything like that in the MT DBs entuland: "i edited the one for currency to get 10 M" cheater ahahahah independent56: i am admin. i am scarred from a year of playing on a server. i am corrupt admin. entuland: ehehhe, your world, your rules :P Ingar: a game without cheats is a bad game independent56: when its online, i will be honest "yes, we have a corrupt admin. deal with it." entuland: I provide support for another game and I have no problem in saying to players that they're free to do whatever they want with their worlds _and_ the players in their communities Ingar: I have only one admin rule: don't bug the admin Ingar: it works pretty well Noclip[m]: lol independent56: to prevent an XX drama on my server, i have said "admin can do what he likes. dont cry. save everything you do" Noclip[m]: Oh wait, you were the one that gets banned everywhere xD specing: haha independent56: i am. i am a scarred from years of moderator action. so i decided to be a moderator and scar others. its the ring of bullying. Noclip[m]: So however joins your server gets free bullying from you? independent56: maybe for the first week Noclip[m]: Interesting "buisness" model xD independent56: yeah... i will let them grow roots, then "play" with them independent56: give them some death, teleport them into the nothing, revoke interact... just admin fun Noclip[m]: Is your server already online? independent56: no independent56: im working on the map independent56: i have no access to port forwading independent56: but yeah... the wiki is working on the private ip. i need to launch the server when i get home Noclip[m]: You could use yggdrasil then. independent56: tell me more Noclip[m]: But that will only allow other yggdrasil users to connect ☹️ independent56: "in Norse cosmology, is an immense and central sacred tree." is the ddg result independent56: brb Noclip[m]: https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/ Noclip[m]: A bit like TOR or I2P but for speed instead of anonymity. Noclip[m]: But if you want to be acessable over the clearnet that won't help you. independent56: cool Noclip[m]: Let's be honest, the clearnet just sucks ... independent56: i dont want to make it online //now//, i gave myself the half-term to make the server and wiki public-ready independent56: im very proud of my world. so if a griefer comes, then its time to play with them. Noclip[m]: It's using bad technology from the beginning of the internet. Noclip[m]: Don't forget to keep a backup xD independent56: i dont. auomatic nightly backups. 21:00 Noclip[m]: How do you manage version control? independent56: using crontab. //i// forget to backup, but crontab always remembers independent56: version control? just a $(date + "%Y-%m-%d") slapped onto the filename independent56: i have a whole pool of neglected zips. Noclip[m]: Lol so you make a copie for every new version? independent56: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/826159362225209406/849034149234868234/Screenshot_from_2021-05-31_22-18-17.png?width=720&height=405 independent56: here is the pool Noclip[m]: I recommend you to use deduplication for minetest backups. independent56: meh independent56: it works fine independent56: only 1 gb per zip. independent56: it also zips all the mods 0_0 independent56: gtg Noclip[m]: Ahh, I did it the same way in the beginning. Noclip[m]: Ohh wait, I didn't. Noclip[m]: I only zipped my worlds and not the whole minetest folder. Noclip[m]: What you are doing is nothing else than wasting a ton of space! Noclip[m]: Don't backup things that you don't need to backup and make your backups as space-efficient as possible! Noclip[m]: With 1 GB per zip you will have 365 GB after one year. independent56: hmm independent56: good point Noclip[m]: lol independent56: yeah... will excluide mods Noclip[m]: I'm currently using Borg for world backups. independent56: hmm independent56: meh independent56: i like the cross-platform and simplicty of bash scripts Noclip[m]: That only stores the changes of every new version. Jordach: so your collective files will adapt to serve us independent56: meh.... i once lost a whole pool. was distressing until i realised i had a copy of everything on my sister's computer. Noclip[m]: Does that mean you're never using Windows? independent56: i prefer being able to cpy and extract one file. Noclip[m]: lol independent56: Noclip[m], windows is horrible. it is sin. i never use it. Jordach: hello there independent56: excerpt for in a vm, where i point and say "haha stoopid" Jordach: i'm sorry i can't hear you over my audiophile gear Noclip[m]: Why do you have a copie of all your files on your sister's computer? Noclip[m]: hello there"> Hello independent56: to show her my worlds independent56: and not ^I all ^i my files, just the worlds and mods Noclip[m]: Great! Windows is the only platform that is not supported by borg (I think). independent56: brb Noclip[m]: "Hey sister, could you please store a few Terabytes of data for me?" Noclip[m]: "I'm sure your laptops SSD has still some free space." independent56: *hdd Noclip[m]: 20 TB HDDs do exist. independent56: hmm independent56: my sister wa sonly playing on some world independent56: not all my files Noclip[m]: But laptops probably don't ship with them xD independent56: and i have a 500 gb SSD... everything fits. Noclip[m]: Mhh, maybe they don't exist?! Noclip[m]: But Wester digital has a 18 TB HDD. Noclip[m]: https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-gold-sata-hdd#WD181KRYZ independent56: and it costs $700. nope! Noclip[m]: 1 year of daily zip backups later ... independent56: once, with timeshift, it was draining my storage space. and i didnt know. iw as wondering "why is my computer slow?". when i found out i felt sooo stupid. Noclip[m]: Wait, your filesystem was actually full? independent56: timeshift is now deleted independent56: im lucky i survived Noclip[m]: You know that this is probably not good for the OS, do you? independent56: i know independent56: the OS forgives me. Noclip[m]: The OS usually always expects the filesystem to be writeable. independent56: XD Noclip[m]: Just imagine the filesystem gets filled up in the middle of an OS update ... independent56: luckly, timeshift was deleted. independent56: and i have... 127 gb left Noclip[m]: You could use btrfs as filesystem. Then you can do daily snapshots without needing extra space for them. independent56: hmm Noclip[m]: You make backups to an external drive, do you? independent56: hmm independent56: i have an external drive. but the connector wire is shit Noclip[m]: (And timeshift has support for btrfs. If you use timeshift on btrfs it won't use extra space.) independent56: its impossible to make backups without "i/o error! oopsie woopsie! cant backupyour most important files" Noclip[m]: Then get a new wire. independent56: lol yeah Noclip[m]: Every storage device dies after some time. Your SSD is no exception from that rule. independent56: my mum has a blue bag with a handful of storage devices. containing memories. she keeps on putting off backups. she almost lost it. i wish to make backups of it. independent56: yeah... i need to put it on my drive. Noclip[m]: There are a few great backup phrases: Noclip[m]: No backup no mercy. If there is no (tested) backup the data wasn't important. RAID is not a backup. One backup is no backup. Always test your backups. independent56: hmm independent56: i always remember "three points and you're probably good" Noclip[m]: independent56: If you can lose your backups then you aren't doing your backups the right way! independent56: hmm Noclip[m]: Do you know the 3-2-1 backup rule? Noclip[m]: Always have 3 backups on 2 different types of storage media with one backup being offsite (for example in the cloud). Noclip[m]: That's basically the best you can do. entuland: I like to read the binaries of all of my important documents and medida and set them to mind in case of disaster. entuland: s/medida/media Noclip[m]: So you are backup up your data into your brain? entuland: https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-use-your-brain-use-the-brain-think-brain-gif-7914082 Noclip[m]: entuland: lol. How do you backup minetest worlds into your brain? entuland: eheheh, of course I was being facetious :P entuland: I wish I remembered more than 5 birthdates and more than 2 phone numbers Hawk777: Easy. To restore your backup, start an empty Minetest world and rebuild all your stuff! Noclip[m]: "Hey entuland someone griefed your server yesterday and destroyed the whole city. Could you please roll back to another version?" Noclip[m]: "Mhh, I first need to find a way to export the backup out of my brain." entuland: :) Noclip[m]: Super easy xD Noclip[m]: I don't even try. entuland: ehehe entuland: I don't really try actually, some simply stuck after years (some others simply don't despite the years) Noclip[m]: Okay I know a few birthdays and at least one phone number. Noclip[m]: I know someone who knew the first 500 digits of Pi. Noclip[m]: That person also knew many people's phone numbers, car license plate numbers and more ... Noclip[m]: At some point that was really a bit scary xD specing: Sounds like the ideal spy specing: remembers everything just by looking at it Noclip[m]: Not sure if that's how it works. Noclip[m]: In case of Pi they said that they needed a few minutes to learn it. Noclip[m]: I have no idea how you learn hundreds of digits in just a few minutes xD Noclip[m]: Or hours entuland: some people simply have such kind of memory Noclip[m]: Jup entuland: some also say that anyone has such kind of memory and for some reason we simply don't have access to it Noclip[m]: I would probably start forgetting the beginning after a few minutes. Noclip[m]: Which package do I need to install? Is it in the ubuntu repo? entuland: eheheh Noclip[m]: Do I need a special kernel for that? Noclip[m]: Downloading brain.iso now Noclip[m]: Hopefully I won't brick my brain during the installation. entuland: no guarantees given wsor4035: testing to see how things are from the other side of the matrix relay wsor4035: seems to work well erlehmann: i am fully aware this is corporate propaganda, but it might work for minetest too? https://blogs.oracle.com/developers/how-to-set-up-and-run-a-really-powerful-free-minecraft-server-in-the-cloud#sign-up-for-an-always-free-account exe_virus: Wow, that's not going to be abused ;) [0]: AWS and GCP also have free tiers, but Oracle's free tier is especially generous. AntumDeluge: I know the core devs are probably overwhelmed, so I'm sorry, but I want to request a review of pull request https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11202. I haven't heard any feedback on it for just over a month. Would have posted this in the #engine channel, but wasn't sure if there were any core devs that don't use Discord. AntumDeluge: Probably should have said that in #minetest-dev-irc. [0]: notanewbie: PM an op once you've fixed your connection. AntumDeluge: Just learned that my PR doesn't work on Android. 🙄 independent56: ugh independent56: minetestmapper wont work independent56: https://pastebin.com/xVg4MDh6 independent56: with colours.txt, it wont parse properly y5nw: colors.txt basxto: was the freenode channel deleted and restored? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Use safe_file_write to save forceloaded blocks 131bc753f https://git.io/JGCzo (152021-05-30T09:40:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix procession ordering issue in content_cao 13f30dcdb https://git.io/JGCzK (152021-05-30T09:40:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unused version detection from FindLuaJIT.cmake 132c53f03 https://git.io/JGCz6 (152021-05-30T09:40:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix background color of formspec text fields 13758e3aa https://git.io/JGCzi (152021-05-30T09:40:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: script: Replace calls to depreated luaL_openlib 13a0047d6 https://git.io/JGCzP (152021-05-30T09:40:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Provide exact error message if postgres connection string missing 13a12017c https://git.io/JGCzX (152021-05-30T09:40:14Z) independent56: NO GREIFING (grieving about griefing is allowed, but not greifing about grieving) independent56: i like this rule i wrote independent56: a bit ambiguosu, but meh AntumDeluge: Am I correct in that the Android UI is completely separate from the desktop UI? The changes in PR ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11202 ) are not applied to the Android client. AntumDeluge: That can't be right. The client's UI is defined in the built-in Lua scripts. AntumDeluge: Oh! I think I just realized why it's not showing up. Installing a new APK must not overwrite/update the "Minetest" directory. AntumDeluge: Confirmed, that is what the problem is. AntumDeluge: Not sure if this is an issue only because I was using a packed with a different signature. AntumDeluge: *package AntumDeluge: Does that mean that every time I upgrade the client on Android, I need to delete data/cache so that the "Minetest" directory files are updated? sfan5: that should happen automatically CWz_: Did freenode really try to delete the minetest channel? sfan5: no VanessaE: but they have been taking-over other projects' channels, which is what matters VanessaE: Minetest is small potatoes compared to some others :P AntumDeluge: @sfan5 That was not the case when I installed my custom build. Perhaps that has something to do with the signature being different? AntumDeluge: I'm wondering if this is actually related: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11299 AntumDeluge: It seems the client relies on the cached data to determine of the "Minetest" directory is intact & up-to-date. But it does not appear that the cached data is updated with the app (unless, as I said before, it was due to the signature of my package being different). definitely_a: I am curious, what do the core devs think about ShadMOrdre's GAL game? Is it a possible substitute for MTG? I saw it on the forum and it looked like it could use some contributors. ;) definitely_a: I also loaded it and it seemed like I had frozen time and space, weirdest experience since it's so unpolished. sfan5: neard heard of it myself definitely_a: I see, ye just asking lol! I'm always on the lookout for breakthroughs on the MTG case. river: yo river: show me your machines please river: want to see cool examples of automation calcul0n_: you should go on servers with tech mods and ask people there calcul0n_: i'd suggest pandorabox rubenwardy: GAL looks a kitchen sink of mods, it doesn't feel very well mamed rubenwardy: For one, it's not a library definitely_a: indeed, he said it's like a game abstraction layer for programmers. I then thought he just created a sandbox for coders, which sounded useful. dunno really Benrob0329: I don't think we need a new MTG as much as we need more high quality libraries to make game-dev easier. definitely_a: Ok thanks for the quick replies! independent56: im wondering... if i make a fork of minetest with the only difference being adverts, will i be shunned? river: i hate adverts Benrob0329: Most likely yes, most people hate ads to begin with and making a money-grabbing fork is especially frowned upon in open source communities. river: weirdly, fdroid seems ok with them sfan5: independent56: by whom? independent56: by the community majority calcul0n_: so it's not "most likely", it's a big yes :p independent56: 0_0 independent56: i guess i ebtter delete that repo independent56: (/j) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Add core.compare_block_status function (#11247) 13c9144ae https://git.io/JGlep (152021-05-30T18:24:12Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix base64 validation and add unittests (#10515) 1389f3991 https://git.io/JGleh (152021-05-30T18:23:12Z) independent56: what are the advtrains demo signals for? y5nw: I suppose for testing y5nw: There was a "7" texture in the Ks signal mod, so I supposed orwell wanted to make Ks signals more than something with only four aspects, except that has not really happened for a few years independent56: hmm.... can i use them for my lines? independent56: would they be allowed on LF as signals on mainlines? y5nw: I would personally not use them. After all they are demo signals independent56: i would use them on testtracks, those long worldedit lines, designed to test trains y5nw: ... except I'm also testing Ks signals independent56: speaking of worldedit, why is it when i do "//set advtrains:dtrack_st", then fix the rotation with "//param2 3", why is i that sometimes they nap back to param2 0? y5nw: Have you tried /at_sync_ndb afterward? independent56: hmm... independent56: oh my god.... thank you so much! independent56: now i am not being punished for worldedit! independent56: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826159362225209406/848643701748006932/Screenshot_from_2021-05-30_20-24-43.png independent56: my train always stops here independent56: but it can go up the slope perfectly y5nw: independent56: in case you are curious why I'm testing Ks signals: https://vimeo.com/556930062 independent56: oh my god... germany is really taking over advtrains... but idc! independent56: i put the wikipedia page for the german signals on my kindle. and wow! i love them! independent56: what does mud reflow mean? independent56: . A simple mud flow algorithm smoothens out dirt / dirt with grass hills independent56: sorry independent56: ddg ismy only friend Sven_vB: hi :) does the MineTest v5.4.1 client support UTF-8 in chat? Sven_vB: also I cannot use UTF-8 emoji on signs, is it the signs mod's fault or a problem with MT the engine? Sven_vB: they become \uHHHH entuland: in theory they should work, probably it's some codepoint that the font doesn't cover? entuland: I googled and I found a few discussions on github mentioning that UTF-8 should be supported entuland: or at least, most of the issues that were there should have been addressed Sven_vB: then it's probably converting at the clipboard paste stage Sven_vB: thanks! entuland: uhm... I'm not sure all the codepoints are supported entuland: I'm doing some testing AntumDeluge: I have another question: The Android client build from development (master) branch can access ContentDB. But why can a desktop build not do the same? entuland: nope, can't get the chat to use the fonts I pick in the settings entuland: the chat seems to use a font for which there is no setting able to alter it, not sure whether it's possible to change it at all entuland: tried replacing all the fonts with Unifont (and the Upper variant as fallback), but pasting emojis or, say, russian, comes up as question marks AntumDeluge: Oh, nevermind. I was wrong. For some reason it wasn't working for one of my builds. But it is working now. entuland: okay, something funky is happening for sure - here is what I typed in the texbox and it works: https://i.imgur.com/ijtF4St.png entuland: but if I copy that text from there and I paste it back, this is what I get: https://i.imgur.com/vU7hwcD.png entuland: if I send a message with russian from a mod, the chat prints it properly: https://i.imgur.com/5oJhZ1p.png entuland: well, not _all_ gets through properly, what I had my mod print was "русский 😃" entuland: the smiley got lost in the chat entuland: even though I set all my fonts to Unifont (and Unifont Upper as fallback as explained above) entuland: something funky is also happening at direct input - I have an AutoHotKey script that lets me type greek characters just by hitting capslock, like this (random gibberish): κlθηασkδφηακσθηf entuland: that's directly typed here on hexchat entuland: I put such chars on the mod and had it print on chat, it works, but typing such chars in the chat prompt again gives question marks: https://i.imgur.com/O356sfo.png entuland: posted an issue on github, hopefully it's not too crabby of a report AntumDeluge: I hate Windows. AntumDeluge: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/848707736317067294/minetest_dll_dependencies.png entuland: ⊞ ♡ :P Jordach: wtf are you even doing entuland: I'll dare guessing "compiling minetest with visual studio or something" AntumDeluge: MSYS2/MinGW entuland: close enough 😛 Jordach: someone get Captain Picard on the phone Jordach: i need a facepalm entuland: ahahaha Benrob0329: Is it Cygwin or MinGW that's largely deprecated now? AntumDeluge: If anyone has a better option for Windows, I'd be happy to hear it. MSYS2 is a pain in the butt to compile the libraries as static. Jordach: i compile just fine with vckpg and MSVC AntumDeluge: I guess I have to give in. Never wanted to turn to MSVC. Benrob0329: I suppose the thing is that some might prefer to stick to open source toolchains as much as possible entuland: if I'll ever use any of the VS stuff again I'll do that within a virtual machine, too many bad experiences in the past getting the system messed up installing such things - but maybe the situation has improved AntumDeluge: Cygwin is the only other option that I know of that offers a Unix-like environment. But I don't know if that is even developed anymore. AntumDeluge: BTW, I don't have any problems compiling. It's just that I end up with a hundred DLL dependencies because the MSYS2 project doesn't offer static libs in their pre-compiled libraries. AntumDeluge: And I've found that compiling my own static libraries is more trouble than its worth... AntumDeluge: FreeBSD here I come! ...someday. Emerald2: Are fireflies:hidden_firefly invisible or something? Emerald2: And why does ethereal keep putting jungles right next to the snowblock biome? Would have thought the temperature values would be too far apart. Emerald2: For context, I'm trying to figure out why a server with ethereal mapgen has barely any fireflies. river: can i see some machines and automated systems that have been built in modded minetest? independent56: go to any survival server, river independent56: i think that map.sqlite should be capped at ~50 MB, as it gets large, and hard for operations like ZIP. might as well make a seperate database for each mapblock, or at leasta different table for each mapblock cheapie: $ du -hs map.db cheapie: 75G map.db cheapie: Hmm... :P IhrFussel: 50 MB is nothing on a server...that's like generating 1 path way (okay maybe a bit more than that) comrad: my minetester server hast around 162M and the mineclone2 world has 149M independent56: me too independent56: my worlds i play on tend to be quite large... meh. independent56: i guess i have to live with the zip command putting a progress bar on map.sqlite cheapie: Could always switch it to leveldb if it bothers you that much - that backend does split things up. comrad: we use borg for backup, the whole backup takes around 9s comrad: independent56: or put the world into a database like postgres MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: UnitSAO: Prevent circular attachments 135bf7246 https://git.io/JGGSu (152021-05-29T09:44:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix cloud fog being broken for high clouds 13ff48619 https://git.io/JGGSz (152021-05-29T09:44:31Z) independent56: hmm independent56: idrc independent56: long backups are fine, crontab runs them a 20:00, and my main picks it up at 21:30 independent56: i have like an hour and a half to make the backups cheapie: It's not really clear to me what the problem with large files really is, anyway - surely nobody is trying to run a Minetest server with a >4GB world on Windows 98 or something. cheapie: ...mostly because if they were, that person would probably be me, and I haven't done that :P MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix misleading /shutdown command syntax 13d7a4479 https://git.io/JGGSy (152021-05-29T09:45:04Z) independent56: lol independent56: im running on a 2009 computer running bodhi linux and i have 200 gb of drive space independent56: and it is free, my parents pay the wifi and electricity costs of running the server independent56: "free hosting does not exist" lies. i said lies. cheapie: Linux on any sane FS (FAT32 doesn't count as sane) will handle the file sizes involved in any reasonable MT world fine. independent56: lol yeah independent56: "reasonable" cheapie: ext4 in particular can handle 16TiB files - if your MT world is hitting that then you have some problems, and sqlite probably has limits lower than that too. AntumDeluge: Are there instructions on building for Android? Nothing in the README. sfan5: buidld/android/README sfan5: build* AntumDeluge: @sfan5 That file doesn't exist. Is it somewhere else? AntumDeluge: Oh! sfan5: huh I'm pretty sure we had that AntumDeluge: doc/README.android AntumDeluge: Thanks. 🙂 comrad: btw, we set up our minetest and mineclone2 server with podman / docker. Is the dockerfile interesting enough for the wiki? and/or might a systemd service unit be interesting for the wiki? Emerald2: IMO more info about setting up minetest servers is always good. comrad: okay AntumDeluge: Since I don't have a verisign key, I can only build "debug" apks, right? Other than being signed, is the debug package any different? AntumDeluge: *other than NOT being signed... sfan5: not really AntumDeluge: Oh good. AntumDeluge: No performance differencs? AntumDeluge: *differences sfan5: nope sfan5: the C++ code is compiled exactly the same even AntumDeluge: Okay, thanks. celeron55: it's just that users can't install it on top of the existing minetest app celeron55: if the key isn't the same comrad: is it still necessary to ask for an account on the wiki? my username in the forum is "comrad" appguru: independent56: your parents still pay, so it isn't free appguru: also note that running a server might make you liable if something happens, say it becomes part of a botnet Noisytoot: dev.minetest.net's certificate has expired j45: Noisytoot: it has already been mentioned several times... sfan5: maybe bringing it up until it's fixed is the right strategy ;) rubenwardy: AntumDeluge: apks are always self signed, you don't need to pay for a cert independent56: i wish that normal advtrains signals had a yellow aspect independent56: for "danger at the next signal", just like british ones independent56: notanewbie has left y5nw: independent56: real Ks signals also use the yellow aspect for "expect to stop at the next signal", except distant signals are a bit complicated to implement ilomiglio: Is there a client mod for torch illumination? At least the server won't render the illumination for all sfan5: there isn't ilomiglio: I see AntumDeluge: Thank you to the core team for the parse_json & write_json methods. They have quickly become some of my favorite features. independent_: hello independent56: hello! thmh: good morning ind independent56: im having problems with mediawiki. all it's doing is saying "this webserver does not support php".. i need to prepare an information centre for the future. independent56: *dokuwiki thmh: add mod_php to your webserver config independent56: wdym? independent56: oh wait forogt search engines existed thmh: what do YOU mean thmh: you're setting up you're own wiki? independent56: yes. i am making my own dokuwiki, but cant get install.php working. on my webbook, where it will be hosted from. thmh: what webserver did you install? nginx? independent56: apache2 independent56: i have no experience in web servers, and im working with no idea what im doing. but i got a minetest server to work. thmh: yeah then my wild guess to add mod_php to your apache config is roughly the whole idea independent56: hmm thmh: there are also easier wikis to host, like gitit independent56: can i have an example line. im thinking something like "mod_php = true" is this correct? thmh: oh wait forogt search engines existed independent56: and sure, there are easier wikis, but then im not doing teenage experiments in my home. thmh: also try #apache #dokuwiki #php independent56: *concerned that the #php channel will be as bad as the language * independent56: test server running again. go look for "56independents server" in the list. independent56: it has an old singleplayer world independent56: update: dokuwiki is complex to install. too complex for my little square brain. so i am not. im looking into alternatives. y5nw: Mediawiki is IMO not bad in particular if you know how to set that up Ingar: afaik mediwiki isnt that hard to install * twoelk: idles around another currently silent place VanessaE: *kaff* VanessaE: heavy fumes, twoelk.. you better get that looked at twoelk: :P whosit: Hello. I want to make my item copyable similar to books but I don't have a special "empty" item. Can I use register_craft_predict() like this: https://pastebin.com/2ziEXyy7 ? It says in the api that "it should not change anything" and I don't understand what that supposed to mean. whosit: just calling same function for register_on_craft and register_craft_predict seems to work like I want... * twoelk: prints out some more documents at work, decides for a new pot of coffee and mourns the worlds he might have lost during a backup sequence that somehow went wrong - so much for using the more powerfull setup at the office for private stuff :( independent56: how does the advtrains wiki put that tree to the left of the page? iamweasel: i am not sure about this particular one, it's real easy to just inject arbitrary html into dokuwiki files iamweasel: in fact some plugins, like translations for example, have you manually edit some template iamweasel: a real annoyance during upgrades independent56: hmm independent56: yeah, i need to upgrade my version of dokuwiki, but i cant beb bothered independent56: i cant put test servers up, as at here, i have no access to port forwarding hanetzer: woo. AntumDeluge: I'm getting the following error: nodes.lua:74: Attempt to redefine name of default:glass to "default:glass" AntumDeluge: Am I misunderstanding the function of minetest.override_item? AntumDeluge: minetest.override_item("default:glass", new_def) rubenwardy: you only want to do difs using new_def rubenwardy: like, things that have changed rubenwardy: to replace everything, use register_node with the override character rubenwardy: minetest.override_item("default:glass", { description = "one two three" }) AntumDeluge: I don't fully understand @rubenwardy. I am changing parameters of the node definition. Shouldn't that be a case for minetest.override_item? AntumDeluge: This is my code: https://github.com/AntumMT/mod-glass/blob/c60b05d/nodes.lua#L70 rubenwardy: it's for differences rubenwardy: you don't need to read from registered_nodes rubenwardy: minetest.override_item("default:glass", { paramtype2 = "color", palette = "unifieddyes_palette_extended.png", groups=groups, on_dig = unifieddyes.on_dig }) rubenwardy: if you want to register from registered_nodes, you'll need to do this: rubenwardy: minetest.register_node(":" .. glass_name, glass_def) rubenwardy: I suppose override_item could be made to not care about this distinction AntumDeluge: Okay, that's what I was doing before I switched to override_item. But I was getting confused because I ended up with unknown nodes. I think this is because I was calling minetest.unregister_item("default:glass") first. So it sounds like I should not unregister the node. rubenwardy: yeah, there's no need to unregister the node AntumDeluge: Okay, thank you @rubenwardy. AntumDeluge: It just clicked when you meant by "differences" :). I understand now. AntumDeluge: *what you meant AntumDeluge: In override_item, is it okay to use {groups = {ud_param2_colorable=1}}? Or will that remove the old groups? I ask because it won't let me use {groups["ud_param2_colorable"] = 1}. AntumDeluge: Do I first have to retrieve old groups local g = core.registered_nodes["default:glass"].groups then append to it? FrostRanger: Are there any plans of an official announcement of the move to libera on the forums? FrostRanger: I saw that the wiki was changed, but an announcement on the forums would likely still be a good idea independent56: good morning! independent56: niceee exactly 7:00 independent56: im getting "final minetest" to see how crappy it is... and if i can even play on my minetest worlds independent56: so crappy that the downloading wouldnt even work /hj celeron55: make sure to copy the worlds first, it could be you can't open the worlds on actual minetest afterwards independent56: good advie independent56: browser downloading wouldnt work, usng wget. and i have to put the "--no-check-security-certificate" flag :eyes_rolling: independent56: wow... its actually minetest, but an older version independent56: and woeld load times are quite slow erlehmann: lol freenode https://www.heise.de/news/IRC-freenode-uebernimmt-Kontrolle-bei-700-Kanaelen-Libera-waechst-weiter-6055441.html erlehmann: mentioning libera.chat is BANNED :D AndrewYu: Which is official, hre or freenode Emerald2: Here is, read the channel topic. river: hey river: i built the minetest irrilict fork into a custom prefix river: how do I build the minetest engine now? how do I make it aware of irrilict I built calcul0n: river, are you sure you need that? the fork already has another name (libirrlichtmt) so there's no conflict calcul0n: but you can set IRRLICHT_LIBRARY to your path at configure time calcul0n: and IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR probably independent56: apt isntalled 0.4 minetest. im gonna use a .deb package insteaf rubenwardy: You can use the official ppa rubenwardy: !g launchpad Minetest stable ppa Krock: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md rubenwardy: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable sfan5: (no google module) Krock: indeed rubenwardy: I swear there used to be? Krock: perhaps from shadowbot? ShadowNinja: ~help g ShadowBot: ShadowNinja: (g ) -- Alias for "ddg search $*". Krock: test Krock: ~g test ShadowBot: Krock: Test | Definition of Test by Merriam-Webster - Test definition is - a means of testing: such as. How to use test in a sentence. , Test | Definition of Test at Dictionary.com - A test is a series of questions or problems that is used to determine a person's ability or understanding of something. More generally, test refers to a trial, experiment, or examination that is (2 more messages) independent56: thx independent56: what command do i do to prevent the 0.4 minetest being installed using the ppa? rubenwardy rubenwardy: It'll install the latest available version rubenwardy: What distro do you use? independent56: bodhi, it is lightweight independent56: (i use ubuntu mainly, but im installing on an old webbook) rubenwardy: 6.0? independent56: lemme check independent56: 5.1.0, 32 bit sfan5: if you have an old distro you probably want to build from source sfan5: (or better yet upgrade your entire system) rubenwardy: That's based on Ubuntu 18.04 so it should work with the PPA sfan5: ah yea, I was thinking older independent56: yay minetest 5.4 is running! independent56: sfan5: this is the latest version of bodhi i have access to independent56: 2021-05-27 19:30:43: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: Failed to bind socket (port already in use?) independent56: i give up independent56: minetest can wait until tomorrow sfan5: are you running a server? independent56: im trying to independent56: but it falls apart sfan5: it will already be running then independent56: wait... so the cli log just quitting means its running?? sfan5: no sfan5: if it fails to bind to the port that usually means that minetestserver is already running and keeping that port occupied independent56: yay! independent56: i join with my 5.4.1 computer... and version mismatch error. do i have to downgrade? sfan5: is the 0.4 server still running perhaps? from before you uninstalled it? comrad: independent56: maybe the server is configured to be strict? comrad: the key in the config would be "strict_protocol_version_checking" independent56: hmm independent56: will a restart stop the 0.4 server? and will it run again if i do `minetestserver`? logger56: time to make an actual server logger56: but now i can ban people for unfair reasons logger56: how do i shutdown a minetest server? sfan5: question is "how" is it running sfan5: as a service? in a detached terminal? logger56: i dunno, just started it with `minetest --server` sfan5: then ctrl+c logger56: hmm logger56: what about with crontab? `minetest ^C` /j? logger56: because i plan to run and stop servers with crontab sfan5: you can also send a SIGINT signal to a process running in background iamweasel: killing by pid seems to work pretty well logger56: how? example? sfan5: killall -INT minetest sfan5: *assumes you don't have a client running and only one server logger56: yeah, will do. independent56: scp? nah. usb stick to copy worlds over? heck yeah! independent56: 1,059 files 0_0 independent56: can i advertise my server for testing putposes here? (i need to see if people can join with my port-forwarding) Krock: I think so yes independent56: yay independent56: then i can put it in the forums wwar: i've time to check a test server independent56: yeah... you will be waiting [for the main server] as all essential files are copied. but i am going to start the test server wwar: nope i won't wait :þ independent56: 2.31.88.15 independent56: here is the ip independent56: port is default wwar: k wwar: timed out Krock: !up 2.31.88.15 MinetestBot: 2.31.88.15:30000 seems to be down independent56: 0_0 independent56: may be a problem on my side independent56: sorry, i chose 3000, not 30 K independent56: fixed independent56: (i totally ahvent griefed with lava and admin power >:->) independent56: that was fun! independent56: especially throwing players into the deep underground wwar: Hope you will success in making it what you like erlehmann: so how is the freenode situation x_: I believe everything has moved here now, #minetest on freenode was cleared independent56: wdym "cleared"? by freenode staff? core devs? channel staff? independent56: x_: x_: channel staff independent56: oh, thats fine x_: yeah no coup independent56: fuck this situation, we had to go through the pain of moving. _moving_ independent56: __test of italics__ independent56: oh independent56: gtg x_: italics independent56: how did you do that? using html? entuland: some special code of the IRC client entuland: like with 4co3lo2rs independent56: show! independent56: tell me how! entuland: in my case it's Ctrl+K followed by numbers from 0 to 15 rubenwardy: Yeah 04your 12client09 needs13 to 07send08 codes entuland: I don't know the codes for the italics and other variands independent56: hmm entuland: s/d/t rubenwardy: Dark magic rubenwardy: Monospace 00,04bg independent_: hey 5 testing 7 wow rubenwardy: And this is how this gets banned in the channel entuland: ehehhe independent56: i should use hexchat independent_: wait i havent independent_: well, gtg rubenwardy: I switched from hexchat to quassel because their client sync is better. It comes with a built-in bouncer rubenwardy: Plus the quasseldroid Android app is really good Fixer: if only there was DCC support river: export IRRLICHT_LIBRARY=`pwd`/out/lib/libIrrlichtMt.so river: export IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=`pwd`/out/include river: then i cd into minetest and try to build river: but i get the same error river: Irrlicht found, but it is not IrrlichtMt (Minetest's Irrlicht fork). The river: but it is remote.origin.url=https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht sfan5: not export calcul0n: i think it's cmake -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=/... sfan5: pass it to cmake as -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=... river: thanks! river: I built it river: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../irrlicht/out/lib/ ./out/bin/minetest river: I run it like this river: it launches but when i try to start game i get lua errors river: Runtime error from mod '' in callback handleMainMenuButtons(): ...netest/out/share/minetest/builtin/mainmenu/tab_local.lua:232: attempt to index local 'game' (a nil value) river: stack traceback: river: oh thats because i have the engine, not the minetest game independent_: i have.. 271 mods independent_: no wonder i keep on hitting the node limit independent_: (line length of world.mt) river: what are the technology and automation mods to look for? independent_: technic, pipeworks, mesecons, digilines calcul0n: yep, and basic_machines/basic_robot for another kind river: thanks Swift110-mobile: lol Menchers: lol, this channel's still here Menchers: suggests that the recent removal of tons of channels was pretty much just grepping for "libera" in channel topics bigfoot547: hah yeah one quick alis query BrBridge: 06 ya BrBridge: 07 what's the thing here? has the discord been griefed? BrBridge: 07 0_0 Benrob0329: ? Menchers: freenode's gotten griefed D: Menchers: #minetest didn't get hit this time BrBridge: 07 phew, at least discord hasnt lost years of archived information BrBridge: 07 one question: can i use my archived data from the client how i like? pastebinning stuff i want to preserve? BrBridge: 13 there's already a public log https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-05-26 BrBridge: 07 haha yay! BrBridge: 07 so that means i can pastebing >:-> BrBridge: 07 (bing is not a bin, its a spelling error. remove the g) BrBridge: 13 pastebing is microsoft's competing service BrBridge: 10 Maybe PasteBing is like Pastebin but makes this noise at random: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fq6qFwcK0U&t=12s BrBridge: 07 and pastegoogle takes all the pastes you make, extracts data from them, ands sells it to advertisers. BrBridge: 10 And PastePasteGo at least claims to be better than that but never really shows you what you're looking for to begin with? BrBridge: 07 duckduckpaste has an auto-burn of one hour, and it's search function isnt that great (in comparison to pastegoogle's, wich always gives you what you're thinking - "bannana paste" ends up with "reasons your lover dosent love you") BrBridge: 07 i was typing first!# BrBridge: 07 this day, but 2013: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2013-05-26 BrBridge: 07 shows you what wa sgoing on ~8 years ago. BrBridge: 07 https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2012-06-29 BrBridge: 07 from when the log began BrBridge: 07 cool BrBridge: 07 im at gmt+1. BST ist cool? Benrob0329: Am I the only one who actually has more trouble getting what I want from Google than DuckDuckGo? Benrob0329: Maybe I just know DDG's engine better than Google's to the point that it makes a difference BrBridge: 07 i have no trouble with either of them BrBridge: 07 they both give results. finding your result in a sea of bad ones was always a part of search results. BrBridge: 05 Ping BrBridge: 08  Pong BrBridge: 03 test benrob0329: perfect BrBridge: 10 results inconclusive :P BrBridge: 11 *however they lean towards test sucess but are not statistical significant BrBridge: 10 heh BrBridge: 10 nope BrBridge: 10 no +V for you BrBridge: 11 this isn't -hub BrBridge: 10 but you can have a +v at least :D BrBridge: 10 oops BrBridge: 07 heh BrBridge: 11 I thought +m was removed from -hub anyway? BrBridge: 10 well he STILL can't have +V :) BrBridge: 07 It would seem there is no +m in -hub here BrBridge: 14 Hey folks, just checking, is the plan here that the bridge will remain in place long-term, or at least until nobody visits Freenode any more? I’m trying to decide whether I should remain in both channels (and get duplicate messages) or only this one (and potentially miss chat on Freenode should the bridge be shut down at some point). BrBridge: 11 just stay here BrBridge: 10 freenode is dead, it just hasn't stopped twitching BrBridge: 14 Haha sounds good. BrBridge: 07 The bridge doesn't cost me anything extra to run, so it'll stay around until it can't anymore BrBridge: 10 not sure I recommend that, benrob0329 BrBridge: 10 freenode's gestapo is kinda going full retard on old channels... BrBridge: 07 I mean, sure, but I don't think that bridges are against policy, otherwise the Matrix bridge would get shut down. Besides, if the bot gets banned that just means it's time to never look back :P BrBridge: 11 Is there an API for the logs? Or do I have to scrape the HTML? BrBridge: 15 VanessaE: can't withhold the letter V from someone! now benrob0329 has to write all words starting with v in lowercase (luckily that is no big probelm in english and chat :)) BrBridge: 10 heh BrBridge: 07 If a staff decision is made to remove it I will, but I'm willing to leave it up as long as possible as well BrBridge: 11 (I'd like to have the full history available in Thunderbird) BrBridge: 06 please stop connecting to freenode entirely BrBridge: 06 the faster people leave the better for everyone here BrBridge: 07 Sokomine: Well, I guess I'll have to call vanessaE vE from now on BrBridge: 10 heh BrBridge: 07 yeas! BrBridge: 15 benrob0329: thanks for that! IceDragon: ah, since I'm stranded here, where does channe live now? BrBridge: 11 yay, lowerCamelCase :D BrBridge: 10 yeah, just AKICK the old channels and ditch the relay. BrBridge: 10 it's over, really. BrBridge: 11 @appguru there is not, the best you get is a plaintext version; and I doubt you *really* want the full history avaialble BrBridge: 11 you can be sure the public logs won't be going away BrBridge: 10 I​ceDragon irc.libera.chat #minetest BrBridge: 11 I am sure that they won't be going away BrBridge: 11 I really want the full history however IceDragon: Thanks a bunch VanessaE BrBridge: 10 yw. BrBridge: 11 Probably won't stuff it on my SSD tho :P BrBridge: 11 it's 570MB on disk BrBridge: 11 Oh that's acceptable BrBridge: 11 The only reason to relay to freenode is matrix support BrBridge: 10 so relay to a relay? BrBridge: 11 Couldn't the Matrix relay be configured to relay to Libera? BrBridge: 11 wasn't the internet always just relays though? BrBridge: 11 No BrBridge: 11 Internet Relay Chat ;) BrBridge: 15 btw, has anyone a solution to my formspec dropdown vs. scroll container problem? scrolling scrolls the dropdown if the mouse is still there...but in this case ought to scroll the scroll container unless clicked... BrBridge: 10 tell matrix users to get real IRC clients then BrBridge: 11 Because freenode runs them and the matrix channels are freenode irc named BrBridge: 10 it's not like Hexchat takes a lot of space or bandwidth BrBridge: 07 *Matrix.org runs them BrBridge: 11 Tell irc users to vet out of the darkages BrBridge: 11 *get BrBridge: 11 Ok, i stand corrected then BrBridge: 07 But I can set up some Matrix rooms and point BrBridge to them BrBridge: 11 Isnt matrix working on libera support tho? BrBridge: 15 no, won't use discord. it's horrible. such a bloated program to get something that is *less* convenient than an irc client...no BrBridge: 11 As long as the relay to freenode works not much purpose BrBridge: 11 I can see why people won't use Discord BrBridge: 11 But a main advantage is definitely the message history BrBridge: 11 coughs in matrix BrBridge: 11 In IRC you have to roll your own logging BrBridge: 11 And bouncer * BrBridge: 07 looks at IRCv3's CHATHISTORY spec BrBridge: 11 oh there is? BrBridge: 11 does Libera support it? BrBridge: 07 THere's been the batch type for marking it for a while now, and there's a draft spec for a command to specifically request logs. BrBridge: 07 And Libera is about as on-the-ball for IRCv3 stuff as Freenode was BrBridge: 07 i just set it up BrBridge: 07 logger56 is the logging account BrBridge: 11 we don't need a second log here BrBridge: 11 You don't need one BrBridge: 11 That's why I'm planning on leveraging the existing logs :) BrBridge: 07 he is an old netbook. and a 20:50 every night, he packages up the chat. and at 21:00, my main gets it via scp. BrBridge: 07 i dont need one. correct. but i do liek having a private log BrBridge: 11 Why not just wget irc.minetest.net BrBridge: 11 Mirroring the public logs is way more convenient IMO BrBridge: 07 it was a fun project BrBridge: 07 and still is fun BrBridge: 07 Libera doesn't even support message tags, which are not really new at this point and allow nice new features BrBridge: 11 adv_chat parses message tags properly :) BrBridge: 11 it just has no use for them currently BrBridge: 14 when's opting-out of BrBridge but not MTDiscord gonna be a thing? BrBridge: 11 as soon as BrBridge disappears ;) BrBridge: 14 why does [off] apply to both BrBridge: 07 See https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum/issues/167 if you want to support Libera gettings message tags BrBridge: 15 what are message tags for? what's needed is normal chat and something like /me. if that's there chat can commence. ok, and /msg BrBridge: 07 Message tags don't replace CTCP (yet) but they provide a standard (and compatible thanks to capability negotiation) way of adding metadata to messages BrBridge: 07 So things like message IDs, reactions, replies, and edits, as well as marking netsplits and chat history all become fairly trivial with them BrBridge: 15 ah, ok BrBridge: 08 hi BrBridge: 13 are both minetest channels still being used for now then? BrBridge: 13 oh they're bridged BrBridge: 07 here is an excuse: i am logging incase the original logs are gone. or they are editied. or they are made innacessible by poor administration. BrBridge: 11 nothing is stopping admins from booting the logging user though BrBridge: 07 IceDragon: true. but i dont think they will, as i am logging on this account. default behaviour for many clients BrBridge: 07 whats happening here? BrBridge: 07 my logwebbook is streaming banned users BrBridge: 07 wow wtf BrBridge: 11 at least it's stopped BrBridge: 11 all of them are IP bans BrBridge: 14 we take it someone moved bans over? BrBridge: 07 probably BrBridge: 07 Correct BrBridge: 07 good BrBridge: 07 at least it wasnt my logger being banned BrBridge: 10 yeah they're just importing the ban list from fn BrBridge: 15 chat logs? BrBridge: 07 yay! Panquesito7: hi guys :) hlqkj: o/ sfan5: !op sfan5: !op Helenah: So... how many more channels am I going to have to keep joining on here! Helenah: Oh and hi! :3 * sfan5: waves est31: hi sfan5: hello * est31: waves at sfan5 VanessaE: a wild est31 appears! est31: :) * twoelk: waves goodbye to the old channel twoelk: o/ twoelk: \o est31: freenode broke my bouncer config for some reason sofar: nothing like freenode bringing back together good old friends est31: I don't know what the problem is and I dont think I want to debug it at this point Conrad: est31: Freenode breaks a lot of things :D est31: indeed Conrad: Can't even get op in my channel anymore Conrad: I figure the only way to shut down the channel is to mention Libera a bunch of times. est31: lol est31: l*bera Conrad: Then the freenode nazis will join and take over VanessaE: ..and scream about freeze peach :P twoelk: ugh, now I keep thinking of peach flvor icecream twoelk: *flavor Conrad: peach flavor anything is overrated * Conrad: sings Libera to the tune of the Liberty Mutual jingle Jordach: it really should've been called liberia chat but there we go Conrad: My brother kept typing irc.liberia.net. I figured I'd let him figure out what he'd botched up. sfan5: i've made the same mistake a couple of times Conrad: If you search irc libera on Google, it pulls up a page about IRC (the foundation) and the work they've done in Liberia. est31: lol twoelk: I first thought of Liberace the entertainer est31: sofar: :) Krock: ping x_: \o Krock: hi xerox independent56: is there a way to get the length of the train using luaATC? my mainline needs 2-wagon trains, oherwise the stationsare too small. summat like "if train_length() == 2 then set_line("passanger") end" Krock: independent56: that's a question about black magic. perhaps checking the books (source) yourself will yield quicker answers * twoelk: stares at the old dead channel and decides to take a screenshot for history independent56: Krock: https://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=usage:atlatc:api independent56: this does not mention of it independent56: i wish i could Krock: well then, dig into the source code y5nw: independent56: afaik no y5nw: would be just #train.trainparts though independent56: i'll look into fixing this hole independent56: wdym with that "#train.trainparts"? y5nw: facepalm read the source code and you will figure that out independent56: what file should i read? y5nw: Somewhere in the lua automation directory (I'm reading that as well) y5nw: Hm, there is the train_length function independent56: ohhh! can i have a link? y5nw: train_length = function() if not train_id then return false end; return #train.trainparts end y5nw: advtrains_luaautomation/atc_rail.lua:86 independent56: thats intresting independent56: lemme test it independent56: im adding this to the wiki! independent56: what do you think? independent56: https://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=usage:atlatc:api&do=diff independent56: <@603283606894280704> y5nw: independent56: "wagon" is not a length unit like meter or inch independent56: oh... you fix it (thats the way wikis work) /qj independent56: thx independent56: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/826159362225209406/847209602546532362/Screenshot_from_2021-05-26_21-26-25.png?width=1081&height=608 independent56: advtrains is great for meat farms logger56: independent56: logger56: fucking hell thats horrible logger56: i wish i wssnt cursed to share the same body s 56independent independent56: wait logger56: why did you do that thunderbird? loofer: What is the difference between minetest.net and minetest.org \: minetest.org isn't an official website, AFAIK calcul0n: loofer, minetest.net is the real one, the other should not be trusted calcul0n: (the real answer is a long story :) \: hah, just scrolled to the bottom and saw oldcoder's name loofer: Okay, I think minetest.org said something about minetest final being better than minetest 5.0 sfan5: the software offered by the other website is a fork of an outdated state of Minetest; the person running the other site is no longer part of our community due to continued threats and personal harassment sfan5: that's about as short as it gets while covering all you need to know loofer: Ok, thanks! IhrFussel: It happens mostly on mobile devices since those put the game "to sleep" while in the background...now my guess is that MT actually still receives packets during that state and if the user switches back to the MT app it plays everything back at once IhrFussel: But on mobile you disconnect ~ 30 seconds after you switched to another app and put MT into the background so the "playback length" is very short BrBridge_: 07 i dont understand what Ks signals are better for. why should i use them? to me, they are as ugly as sin, and i feel that i should just use regular ones. BrBridge_: 07 i dont understand what Ks signals are better for. why should i use them? to me, they are as ugly as sin, and i feel that i should just use regular ones. y5nw: independent56: IRL Ks signals can be used as the main signal and as a distant signal, hence the German name "Kombinationssignal" (combination signal) y5nw: independent56: also it is (correct me if I'm wrong) also introduced to unify the different signaling systems used in Germany y5nw: Btw, the Ks signal in-game is not totally accurate in that the yellow light in the middle is used for "proceed with speed restriction of 6" instead of "expect stop at the next signal" (actually using m/s instead of 10km/h is also not really compliant to RL signals, but that's possibly done to avoid headache) MNH48: I think that's mostly because m/s is easier to understand in game and less technical ... the actual speed unit is "nodes per second" and we always count 1 node long as 1m long MNH48: eg, it's used in config example https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/673c29f7ea6735c15596a118fe7e6100d4a466e0/minetest.conf.example#L1451 MNH48: (the 'nodes per second' , I mean) j45: celeron55, are you there? i just wanted to tell you (incase you didnt already know) that the certificate for dev.minetest.land is invalid j45: *dev.minetest.net TechDude: Hey j45 Conradish006: Interesting. For me, it does take quite a while, I went AFK once for over five hours and it took a good ten minutes to "play" everything back. Probably mostly because of the lag. Kimapr: afaik the actual actual unit is mapblocks per second... (are replies properly relayed?) Jonathon: No BrBridge: 07 i dont understand what Ks signals are better for. why should i use them? to me, they are as ugly as sin, and i feel that i should just use regular ones. BrBridge: 11 what are you talking about? BrBridge: 07 but im sure there is a benifit BrBridge: 11 is this a mod? BrBridge: 07 avdtrains Krock: !mod advtrains MinetestBot: Krock: Advanced Trains [advtrains] by orwell - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14726 - https://github.com/h-v-smacker/advtrains_granite BrBridge: 07 *advtrains, the laggy mod for realistic trains hlqkj: Ks signals can also set a speed limit on thrains, normal signals can't BrBridge: 07 oh wow! /srs BrBridge: 07 yeah, despite their uglyness, i will use them for new sections of [interlocked] track. hlqkj: they can also be used for shunting signalling, but that is something i still need to learn BrBridge: 07 me too. i ahve never needed to sue shunting. just a small siding and regular mode is enough BrBridge: 07 and the mast wich can be made taller is always good, especially in eleveted tracks BrBridge: 07 if i was'nt so lazy, i would change the texture to be less fugly. BrBridge: 07 [advtrains] routig codes? where do i go to understand them? BrBridge: 07 main question: can i just make one long one, and the interpreter tries to find the given routing code within the train's one? example: train "S-RE-UY", signal ARS "RC S-RE"? will this take the train down the signal ARS? BrBridge: 07 in advtrains, how do routing codes differ from lines? BrBridge: 07 in advtrains, how do routing codes differ from lines? BrBridge: 14 What did you find unclear from the documentation ? BrBridge: 14 independent56: What did you find unclear from the documentation ? BrBridge: 07 Hawk777: thanks! i am sooo stupid :man_facepalming gpcf: bad bot y5nw: independent56: Ks signals are mainly taken from RL, where they are (IMO) more useful than in-game gpcf: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/846842267951038484/400px-Ks-Mehrabschnittssignal.png gpcf: here, look at the beauty of ks signals y5nw: independent56: btw, as I currently live near Heidelberg during the holiday I can take a photo of a tram signal tomorrow to compare with a Ks signal BrBridge: 07 wow! no ugly blue pole! just pure, confusing, german engineering! gpcf: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/846842983688306719/450px-German_railway_hl_signal.png gpcf: or do you prefer its commie father, the Hl Signal? BrBridge: 07 https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.railsigns.uk%2Fphotos%2Fp_route2%2Fpic_plji5.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 BrBridge: 07 british signals sometimes have route indicators, showing wich way trains go y5nw: independent56: how much information do British signals show in comparison to Ks signals though? BrBridge: 07 maybe i should submit an email-issue for these BrBridge: 07 BrBridge: not much. pure minimalisim y5nw: You should probably write a mod that adds British signals BrBridge: 07 but im used to that BrBridge: 07 i dont wish to add to the mineest community, after how it treated me TBH. y5nw: Well yeah, if you don't want to do it yourself and are dependent on others to do it then you are dependent on others to implement it based on their own interests BrBridge: 07 and sure, ks signals are "better". but remeber - the uk gets by just fine with it's signals. need an excuse for simplicity? ask us! BrBridge: 07 hmm gpcf: the UK's rail is a joke gpcf: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/846844022933028894/800px-S-Bahn_Rostock_push-pull-train.png BrBridge: 07 british rail takes you where you need to be. thats all that matters for us. gpcf: these trains would be taken out by the first bridge they'd encounter gpcf: the only double-deck train you tried was a sardine can BrBridge: 07 XD gpcf: also, british rail no longer exists, so it can't take you anywhere BrBridge: 07 we dont need double-decker. just transport BrBridge: 07 unlike europe, our island is relitively small. and why would we ever retrofit our aincent bridges? y5nw: independent56: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen BrBridge: 07 why spend millions making new infastructure when you can spend a few million on carbon tax and use roads? gpcf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ6PqpCbsLE gpcf: also, you have this "nice" spot-welding electrification system y5nw: Anyway, we should get back to talking about advtrains y5nw: (and MT in general) BrBridge: 07 yeah... er... routing code ARS interlocking backbench what? BrBridge: 07 obvs /j y5nw: Anyway, it would be nice to have the type of tram tracks that are "embedded" into the road BrBridge: 07 just use level crossings? BrBridge: 07 or maybe make an alias of normal tracks without the wood sleeping things y5nw: Except the level crossings are not particularly ... intuitive BrBridge: 07 as i said, level crossings or no wood sleeping things. y5nw: Advtrains lacks a mechanism for aliasing tracks for such cases :\ BrBridge: 07 make one >:-> y5nw: If I can finish the existing things in advtrains that I am working on, yes BrBridge: 07 add more >:-> y5nw: Well yeah, I need to first finish the things I'm already working on (and prioritize) right now (mostly the HUD and l10n changes), and then work on things that I have not started yet or consider less important BrBridge: 07 how would you go about using ars rules to match an routecode of "junction station"? would you just do summat like "junction-station station-junction junction-mainline"? how would i use a routecode of "junction station junction mainline"? would i just do "RC junction station"? or is it more complex? y5nw: The routingcode should not contain spaces BrBridge: 07 0_0 i thought it was a single routecode? y5nw: Currently there is no official support for matching multiple RCs at a time, but you can do it by e.g. specifying them separated with spaces y5nw: That does mean that the RCs on the train would need to be written such that they match with string.find (IIRC) BrBridge: 07 hmm... what if i have a specific route around a strange maze-like track? do i have to put the entire routecode in? y5nw: I didn't quite understand that BrBridge: 07 https://pastebin.com/76LcL4Zm BrBridge: 07 this is my plan, taken from my journal-notebook y5nw: I am not sure what you are asking right now. Are you asking about how to match multiple routing codes (and does the order matter?) y5nw: Btw: http://git.bananach.space/advtrains.git/tree/advtrains_interlocking/ars.lua BrBridge: 07 im just asking that i have train at point A. then, i want to take it to point C, then B. what is the reccomended way to do this using routingcodes? y5nw: I would suggest just assigning a line number to that route y5nw: Or, if you want to do it with RCs, and assuming that A connects to either B or C in that particular direction departing from A (e.g. a station), then you can use "A B" or "A C", but with the limitation that the RCs has to be written in that particular order and with the same number of spaces y5nw: And if you write "A B A C" then you end up being short-circuited to the first route that matches "A B" or "A C" BrBridge: 07 hmm BrBridge: 07 i will need tp learn the system much more deeply. BrBridge: 06 Is TenPlus1 there? BrBridge: 07 he dosent appear on my user list. he isnt even inactive. ~libera.chat BrBridge: 06 ah, I see BrBridge: 06 maybe he stood at freenode? Gustavo6046: nope wwar: Tenplus1 does not be online in these times BrBridge: 06 yeah wwar: He was in his server 2 hours ago BrBridge: 06 they are a person who is highly concerned with privacy, BrBridge: 06 I value that BrBridge: 06 in fact I once remembered an email of his concerning my PR to his builtin_item BrBridge: 06 I was never able to reply; it was a send-only, burner email account I think. wwar: He knows we turned to libera tho wwar: i talked to him (outside minetest) in forums and hub-irc only BrBridge: 06 ah okay wwar: a good proof that says minetest is older than minecraft, wwar: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/846854880495665152/Screenshot_2021-05-25-23-51-26.png wwar: Some weeks ago we found that 2b2t server has 60+ players in server list while it has only 4 online.. BrBridge: 06 what? wwar: you cant see the screenshot i sent? BrBridge: 06 2b2t was born in around 2010 iirc, before Minecraft had its official 1.0 release BrBridge: 06 is that the actual minecraft 2b2t or? BrBridge: 06 because 2b2t's address is 2b2t.org wwar: no its minetest BrBridge: 06 ah okay wwar: if you can see the scroonshot i sent, it says the server is up for 50 years BrBridge: 06 well mineclone2 isn't minecraft BrBridge: 06 LOL BrBridge: 06 ah yes, unix epoch BrBridge: 06 wasn't every human being born in Jan 1 1970? wwar: atleast we prooved that mc is the copy :þ AntumDeluge: Is the Minetest Discord server public? Or do I need an invite? AntumDeluge: I joined this ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/76ji7u/unofficial_minetest_discord/ ), but it says it's unofficial. So, not sure if that is the right one. BrBridge: 11 check the website Jonathon: http://www.minetest.net/get-involved/ BrBridge: 11 -> https://discord.gg/minetest AntumDeluge: Oh jeez, sorry for being so ignorant. Thanks. Jonathon: thats from when it used to be unofficial, btw welcome @AntumDeluge AntumDeluge: Oh cool, I already joined then. :) AntumDeluge: Thanks Jonathon. AntumDeluge: I mean, thanks Jonathon. 🙂 BrBridge: 07 [off] test Jordach: oof BrBridge: 07 :squint: Jordach: nice Benrob0329: that works (though just from Libera <-> Discord) Benrob0329: *Libera <-> Freenode BrBridge: 07 test [off] BrBridge: 07 CTCP ACTION with [off] works too specing: Ah, that was quite a while later Jordach: it works on both sides basically BrBridge: 10 erlehmann, server might be available for testing this evening BrBridge: 10 erlehmann, come join at lunar.cloud : 30000 AntumDeluge: Could someone translate this for me? "Packet quota used up for peer_id=13, was 256 pkts" Jordach: extreme network load from media transfer Jordach: 2021-05-24 03:38:59: WARNING[ConnectionSend]: con(4/1) Packet quota used up for peer_id=4, was 1024 pkts AntumDeluge: This is what is happening on my server whenever I am attached to something like a helicopter or motorcyucle. AntumDeluge: Causing major jitters. Jordach: i basically quadrupled my packet quota on purpose AntumDeluge: Can I change that in settings? AntumDeluge: "max_packets_per_iteration"? AntumDeluge: Mine is set to 1024. Jordach: yes AntumDeluge: Well, I'm not getting the message now. But still very jittery. AntumDeluge: Is there some kind of anti-cheat causing my position to be reset if I move to fast? AntumDeluge: Only happens when I am attached to something that moves faster than I normally would. Doesn't occur with mods that let me sprint or when "fast" is enabled. AntumDeluge: BTW, thank you @Judge Dredd. You are the law. Jordach: network compression when Jordach: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/846237323930107918/unknown.png Danil_2461: what the fuck!!!! 😳 Danil_2461: this is beatiful Genshin: it gets even better Genshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/846267254014083072/Zeus_Mode.mp4 Danil_2461: 😳 Danil_2461: this is perfect AntumDeluge: I'm creating a mob entity with text in the nametag. But I only want it visible to a player up to a specific distance. I haven't found anything in the API about it. Is the engine capable of doing this? If not, something like ObjectRef:set_nametag_attributes({distance=value}) might be a good way. BrBridge_: 07 Jordach, i was asleep BrBridge_: 07 Jordach gib server Jordach: 20 mins Jordach: I am barely awake BrBridge_: 08 erlehmann can watch me be really really bad at aiming. :P Jordach: Right I need food and then I’ll be back BrBridge_: 08 What is hand eye coordination tho? Jordach: online BrBridge_: 10 erlehmann, ^ BrBridge_: 07 . BrBridge_: 07 Jordach, i come BrBridge_: 10 that depends MinetestBot: 02[git] 04savilli -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix client crash on when con::PeerNotFoundException is thrown (#11286) 13673c29f https://git.io/Jsx3g (152021-05-24T17:40:35Z) BrBridge_: 07 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11286 -- Fix client crash by savilli Sven_vB: When I make a one block high walkway, sneak should keep me on that walkway when I move diagonally, right? but when there's a cotton plant in front of it, I fall off the walkway, into the cotton. is that expected behavior? Sven_vB: using 5.4.1 on Ubuntu focal 64-bit sfan5: the plan is not walkable is it? Sven_vB: I can walk through a cotton plant with no damage to anything Sven_vB: if you like to join the server I'm on, I can demo it Sven_vB: odd. it seems to work when walking on papyrus in front of hemp Sven_vB: I'll have to investigate more Dyedefra: test Sven_vB: oh, are sneak-to-not-fall mechanics different when part of my char is touching water? sfan5: possible BrBridge_: 15 i do have trouble with the dropdown formspec element: unintentional changes happen to it when the mouse is on the dropdown menu but the larger context ought to scroll. is there a way to require a click to the dropdown menu first? ar10ch: what's the easiest way to quickly replace a bunch of tree schems? I made 15 with mtschemcreate but despite them being symmetrical, and having place_centre x/z, they just wont sit right. maybe its the random rotation, but without that they'd look lame. Flying or half-buried trees atm sfan5: I suggest building from Lua the way they were done in mtg sfan5: (https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/schematic_tables.txt) BrBridge_: 07 im just wondering... if i had a rail tunnel and wanted to emulate wire pipes, how do i emulate shelves for them? BrBridge_: 07 on second thoughts, i could probably use technic wire clamps BrBridge_: 07 or whatever they are called ar10ch: drawing them a layer at a time, like a 3d printer? I thought that would be quicker BrBridge_: 07 https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com%2Fcentaur-wp%2Ftheengineer%2Fprod%2Fcontent%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2F27122400%2Fcrossrail-tunnel.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 BrBridge_: 07 aiming for this type of wire... probably pipeline-digiline and technic? ar10ch: sorry.. but what is yslice_prob? I checked for yslice in lua_api.txt ar10ch: I haven't used matlab in years lol BrBridge_: 03 I am having this weird (glitch)? on Minetest 5.4.0 for Manjaro where if I go AFK for a long time and the computer logs out with Minetest still pulled up. And then I log back in after (lets say three hours), it appears to have saved what happened while I was AFK, players joining & leaving, mobs walking by, day and night cycles. And it will play all this back once I log back in and click off the escape menu. The game BrBridge_: 03 very laggy while doing this, but strangely allows you to still walk around. BrBridge_: 05 very cool BrBridge_: 05 kinda like a timelapse ar10ch: ah - is yslice_prob a way of cutting off the bottom of some trees to vary the height? wwar: that exists before MT 5.4.. i think it is a good thing also you can walk and interact yes wwar: It does not take long tho AntumDeluge: I am confused by this: player:get_look_horizontal() (value: 4.7080254554749); self.object:get_yaw() (value: 4.7080249786377); player:get_look_horizontal() - self.object:get_yaw() (value: 4.7683715820313e-07) AntumDeluge: Shouldn't that be closer to 0? AntumDeluge: Oh, it sounds like this is an issue with floating point precision. BrBridge: 07 Jordach you did not highlight me correctly, i just saw it by accident, but thx BrBridge: 07 Jordach, wtf is that mod Jonathon: not a mod, its a game AntumDeluge: Solved my problem with "math.floor(self.driver:get_look_horizontal() * 100)". :) BrBridge: 10 erlehmann, how about wizard with the engine BrBridge: 07 Jordach the mod is walled "wizard with the engine" ? BrBridge: 07 called? BrBridge: 10 it's a game i'm working on BrBridge: 07 Jordach it looks to me like you make a boomer shooter in minetest BrBridge: 10 considering it has quake rocket jumps BrBridge: 10 yes BrBridge: 07 Jordach, i already like it BrBridge: 10 it has a mix of modern FPS, classic FPS and some fanciful features like modifying your stats as you prefer BrBridge: 10 https://gist.github.com/Jordach/8f5b666761bec7f4cba57078d6fb4861 BrBridge: 10 here's the nloc BrBridge: 07 Jordach, release when BrBridge: 07 Jordach, or pre-release whatever where is the repo BrBridge: 07 Jordach, i am interested BrBridge: 10 have another gif of progress https://gfycat.com/essentialeuphoricarcticseal BrBridge: 08 Wow, that's really looking good BrBridge: 10 afaik i'm sure minetest batches a lot of things together as single packets BrBridge: 10 spawning this many minetest entities only shows a few packets AntumDeluge: Question: Wouldn't this always return 0 if the setting isn't set? tonumber(minetest.settings:get("bike_max_speed")) or 6.9 AntumDeluge: It should be "tonumber(minetest.settings:get("bike_max_speed") or 6.9)" correct? or does it not make a difference? AntumDeluge: Oh, maybe I'm wrong. I thought "tonumber(nil)" returned "0", but looks like it returns "nil". So either way should work. rubenwardy: AntumDeluge: get can also return "" if the user has set it to that rubenwardy: The tonumber(X) or 6. Ensures that it always returns a number rubenwardy: Minetest 5.4.1 contained a fix related to this celeron55: fyi: once the channel on the new network has more (legit) users than this one, MT's official irc network will be changed. currently it's 70 vs. 121 refugee: yeah freenode drama be bad celeron55: make sure to follow what's happening with freenode, it's getting worse and there are also reasons talking about it publicly may be a bad idea refugee: 0_0 refugee: where do i follow it??? Noclip: So minetest is also switching from freenode to libera.chat? refugee: can i put it in the wiki? Noclip: What's the current status of minetest on matrix? It's officialy listed on https://www.minetest.net/get-involved/ but irc seems to be still the main chat for minetest. ChaosWormz: Is OpenGL 1.4 still the minimum requirement? Krock: for shaders, you might need more Krock: but "raw minetest" requires 1.4 at least Jonathon: currently discord, freenode, libera, and matrix are all bridge together BrBridge: 07 is it ok to talk about the freenode drama here? or is it taboo everywhere on IRC? refugee: wait.... so everything from all networks is here? 0_o refugee: my dear golly good Noclip: currently discord, fr"> I don't think that's true or maybe you just meant it a different way. Jonathon: you literally just saw someone from liberia, im on discord, and your on freenode wsor4035: and im on matrix Noclip: I'm in the official minetest room on matrix and it's not bridged with this room. Jonathon: well yes rubenwardy: and Im on caffeine Jonathon: my point still stands that this here is bridged to all the channels i talked about Jonathon: *platforms refugee: and thats why we cant talk about it on discord.... but what about on libera? 0_o Noclip: you literally just sa"> I'm on matrix (not on freenode) but this is not the official minetest room on matrix. wsor4035: heh, the bridge treats matrix replys terribly Noclip: wsor: I know wsor4035: anyways, the discord has tons of non relayed channels, the matrix room is not relayed, and there are some freenode minetest channels not relayed as well Noclip: In short: It's a mess xD wsor4035: yes, this. dev, and hub is relayed everywhere, then each other platform has that platform specific rooms/channels/whatever there called Noclip: BrBridge Is used for the libera.chat bridge? wsor4035: yes, hosted by benrob wsor4035: who incidently "owns" the matrix room and space Noclip: It's bridging freenode and libera.chat directly into each other? wsor4035: ya wsor4035: and freenode to matrix by freenode wsor4035: and freenode to discord by mtdiscord hosted by greenxenith wsor4035: basically bridge ception is happening 56i's alt: yeah... (imo) we need to crush down the "verbose networks" (freenode, matrix) in turn for the superior forms of communcation, like libera, forums, discord and a handful more Benrob0329: Note that bridges might get consolidated at some point but not right now Noclip: Some irc rooms have really interesting bridge setups xD Jonathon: shame liberia doesnt have relays to matrix' Jonathon: since i use matrix as my irc bouncer Benrob0329: Honestly the matrix.org bridges have been a bit of a mess over the years Noclip: shame liberia doesnt "> As far as I know it's still work in progress. Jonathon: bridges in general are a mess Jonathon: btw im wsor, this bridge doesnt carry my nick for some reason GreenXenith: Bridges, plural, are a mess. A properly implemented bridge for multiple platforms works fine Noclip: btw im wsor, this bri"> Oh lol, good to know. Benrob0329: I wouldn't blame Libera for not wanting to reinstitute the network-wide bridges, and I'd much rather see the display name message tag or RELAYMSG command get added to Libera BrBridge: 07 how did you change your nick colour? thunderbird user asking GreenXenith: And Discord doesn't relay nicks because people can have absurd nicks and literally any char Jonathon: maybe thats a good thing else i would get pinged all the time on matrix 😛 Benrob0329: independent56: The bridge assigns colors to users and formats the nicknames accordingly BrBridge: 07 oh yeah Benrob0329: Its just for readability BrBridge: 07 makes sense BrBridge: 07 wait.. so my message appear EVERYWHERE (irc, freenode, there and here)? Jonathon: as i told you before, yes BrBridge: 07 no privacy in irc 😭 BrBridge: 15 Jonathon: A matrix bridge for Libera is in progress. Benrob0329: They will appear on Libera, Freenode, the Freenode Matrix Bridge, and Minetest Discord's bridge. Noclip: @independent56 and on matrix and discord. BrBridge: 07 oh my god... i can bypass bans like this /j BrBridge: 07 (not really, i cant even search back) Noclip: no privacy in ir"> Privacy in public rooms doesn't make sense at all ... Benrob0329: ^ BrBridge: 07 i was /hj. sorry BrBridge: 07 and wow, those replies are truly messed up 0_o Noclip: The best way to bypass bans is by not getting banned in the first place ... Jonathon: yeah, but they are a expert at getting banned at this point Jonathon: ive lost track of how many discords, and servers they have been banned from BrBridge: 15 hexchat Benrob0329: I could probably configure the bridge to replace the Matrix Reply syntax for bridged messages Noclip: @Jonathon are you talking about @i​ndependent56? Jonathon: yes Jonathon: or there other aliases Noclip: Why is @independent56 getting banned that much? Jonathon: it would be rude to say.... Noclip: Ok 56i's alt: he is get banned due to hi actions. not even him understands why. it jsut happens. 56i's alt: people get tired of me. BrBridge: 07 0_0 Jonathon: oh look, the alt speaks on a banned platform 56i's alt: i;ll be good this time! Noclip: I think I've never been banned from any chat room at all. rubenwardy: I've been banned from an among us room because the host wanted my colour rubenwardy: I didn't play among us for long Jonathon: lol Noclip: lol BrBridge: 07 XD Noclip: I got time-banned from 2 minecraft servers many years ago. BrBridge: 10 as opinionated as I am, it's a miracle that I've never, to my recollection, been banned from anywhere :) BrBridge: 07 its not a quesrtion that if i spend eneough time somewhere, i always get banend from said place BrBridge: 07 its sad to know that no amtter where i go, i will always be sent away. Noclip: In the fist case I had a pretty good kill-streak (probably mostly for reasons of luck) and plop "banned by an operator". GreenXenith: Its almost as if theres a recurring pattern resulting in your inevitable removal that you should probably figure out and resolve. BrBridge: 07 its the biggest riddle of my online life BrBridge: 07 and the reasons are always so varied BrBridge: 15 VanessaE: Not true, I know you're banned from at least #libera-cloak and #ve-minetest-servers on freenode. :-P BrBridge: 10 that doesn't count :) Noclip: In the second case I did some harmless bug-using in the server lobby and got auto-banned by an anti-hack software ... BrBridge: 07 it does! BrBridge: 05 why banned from #libra-cloak BrBridge: 10 those are automatic services doing their job :) BrBridge: 07 tell me more :-> BrBridge: 10 CWz: after your cloak is applied, a pattern ban boots you out. flood control BrBridge: 07 let me just quickly restart my client BrBridge: 05 I didnt even know I was cloaked until I checked my server notices, the channel didnt ban me so I left on my own BrBridge: 10 also interestingly, when I applied the akick to the old channel, it didn't kick me out, probably because I'm the channel founder :) BrBridge: 05 VanessaE, what if Bulldog1 and Bakerprime get lost in the woods BrBridge: 05 and never find us BrBridge: 10 the akick message points them here BrBridge: 10 plus they could easily ask via one of the servers BrBridge: 10 er, points them to this network anyway :P BrBridge: 07 rather quiet here... lets spark the chat: BrBridge: 07 rust > lua Noclip: xDD GreenXenith: error[E0308]: mismatched types. Expected CompiledLang, found ScriptingLang. BrBridge: 07 lol. but rust guarntees memory safety... and you can probably make a mix of the two. BrBridge: 07 ...hello, we meet again. GreenXenith: Lua scripting embedded in a Rust application sounds like a win to me. BrBridge: 07 yeah, to me too! y5nw: I thought someone wrote a Lua API for Rust? (never used Rust myself though) BrBridge: 07 hmmm... BrBridge: 07 if i get someone's user id, i can ping them. just plop it inbetween "<@" and ">", and it should ping. GreenXenith: The bridge will convert discord mentions automatically BrBridge: 15 There are a couple crates that wrap the LUA C API. BrBridge: 07 i thought that the conversion occur as soon as the message is sent to the server, not via bridge. its how discord mentions work. GreenXenith: Discord mentions are created on the client side BrBridge: 07 i wish i had a dormant alt that nobody knew about, wich i could use to take screenshots. but i dont. i burnt mine. BrBridge: 07 makes sense BrBridge: 07 if mention == "at me" then BrBridge: 07 ping() BrBridge: 07 else if mention == "at someone else" then BrBridge: 07 pingSomeoneElse(mentionTo) BrBridge: 07 end BrBridge: 05 lel BrBridge: 07 i forgot BrBridge: 07 newlines cant go into irc 🤦‍♂️ BrBridge: 07 https://pastebin.com/Q54bLc89 BrBridge: 07 here is the joke y5nw: wonders why independent56 needs two variables for mentions BrBridge: 07 XD BrBridge: 07 i code horribly. sorry BrBridge: 07 i fuhae my connection lapses BrBridge: 07 resay everything you said during 21:43-21:50 BrBridge: 11 there was nothing BrBridge: 15 GreenXenith: what software do you use for the bridge? It doesn't respond to CCTP VERSION. GreenXenith: BrBridge isn't mine GreenXenith: BrBridge uses Matterbridge, DiscordMT uses reactiflux/discord-irc GreenXenith: MTDiscord* Benrob0329: I don't think Matterbridge cares about CTCP at all, other than maybe filtering it out if messages Benrob0329: *of BrBridge: 15 Matterbridge responds to CCTP VERSION (although it identifies itself as girc, the IRC library it uses) and seems to relay CCTP ACTION (/me) properly. And yeah, I meant the Discord bridge. Benrob0329: Oh, fair enough (I had seem reports of otherwise but good to know) BrBridge: 10 B​enrob0329: would you mind taking dark blue out of the nickname coloring the bridge is doing? it's unreadable on black backgrounds BrBridge: 15 Maybe it puts the \x01ACTION later in the message and not all clients recognize it? It works in my client. BrBridge: 07 time to reignite the chat BrBridge: 07 haha multikraft is 100% better then minetest ever could be BrBridge: 07 obviously /j/s Jonathon: are you trying to cause drama? BrBridge: 07 no... just want to talk BrBridge: 07 i know... explain to me why advtrains is brilliant BrBridge: 07 *linux BrBridge: 07 brainslip Jordach: local man has doubt BrBridge: 07 hey BrBridge: 11 hello BrBridge: 11 hello BrBridge: 11 libera works BrBridge: 11 [off] test Benrob0329: VannessaE: I don't believe I can, however you should probably alter your client's color scheme so that all colors are legible Benrob0329: Also, I need to add a message filer so that any [off] messages aren't bridged BrBridge: 10 :( BrBridge: 14 hello * BrBridge: 10 shrugs and adjusts that color entry BrBridge: 10 hi. BrBridge: 15 @Benrob0329 also look into setting up discord bridging so we don't have two nested bridges. GreenXenith: That is already the plan Benrob0329: ^ Benrob0329: To be fair though, the bridging is fairly homogeneous on Libera now so I don't think it's a big issue Benrob0329: Though it looks a bit crap on Discord BrBridge: 15 Yeah, the double bridge stripping is pretty cool. BrBridge: 07 what are [off] messages entuland: I've seen that prefix on many messages to "tag" them as off-topic xerox123: it's to stop them being relayed or logged by the bot Genshin: hope you guys over at IRC like what you see 🙂 Genshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/846172771008249866/screenshot_20210522_124321.png Jonathon: Well, are you using the player_api mod? Jonathon: *and depending on it AntumDeluge: Yes: optional_depends = player_api; if core.global_exists("player_api") then AntumDeluge: print("Using player_api: " .. tostring(core.global_exists("player_api"))); Output: "Using player_api: true" Benau: hello rubenwardy... not sure if i can find "MoNTE48" here...... Jonathon: oh duh, you need to set the player in the player_api.player_attached[playername] AntumDeluge, i read over the player_api jogged my memory Jonathon: //lua player_api.player_attached["wsor"] = true --no idea what you should set for the value //lua player_api.set_animation(minetest.get_player_by_name("wsor"), "sit") AntumDeluge: Thank you Jonathon! AntumDeluge: I'll try it out as soon as I get done submitting an issue report for a mod. Jonathon: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo/src/8012250258243709e95ff178d62e6a069ef74afa/mount.lua#L162 lol, guess true is correct Jonathon: and np Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/player_api/api.lua#L116 for anyone who wants to know the specifics BrBridge: 14 VanessaE: do you still use loadstring() in APIs? AntumDeluge: Thank you Jonathon, it worked. BrBridge: 13 https://youtu.be/T0NYZDGTA5g the l0de radio hour is live! IRC's FINEST HOUR, the late night call in show where you are the star! Call in live, tonight's episl0de: A Small White Dog BrBridge: 08 lolwut AntumDeluge: So it seems that with newer mods that attach entities have not problems with "entity:set_yaw(player:get_look_horizontal())", but when trying to update old mods to use "get_look_horizontal", it's always about 90 degrees off. Anyone have any idea why? Does it have something to do with something hardcoded into the model? AntumDeluge: Example: motorbike mod does "bike:set_yaw(placer:get_look_horizontal())", player view & motorbike aligned... AntumDeluge: Trying to convert hovercrafts: self.object:set_yaw(clicker:get_look_horizontal()) -- player view is about -90 degrees from front of hovercraft AntumDeluge: After attachment, the values of self.object:get_yaw() & clicker:get_look_horizontal() are the same (or nearly the same), but still the view is off. AntumDeluge: get_look_yaw description: Angle is counter-clockwise from the +x direction. AntumDeluge: get_look_horizontal description: Angle is counter-clockwise from the +z direction. AntumDeluge: I'm not that good at math, but I'm thinking I use pi to compensate? AntumDeluge: Ah! The fix is "clicker:get_look_horizontal() + math.rad(90)" AntumDeluge: Doesn't explain why the fix is needed, but it works. :) BrBridge: 14 /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #HAMRADIO /!\ BrBridge: 14 /!\ JOIN #HAMRADIO TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #HAMRADIO /!\ BrBridge: 08 Wow spammers already? BrBridge: 10 Emerald2: they've been hitting the network since it launched :-/ BrBridge: 10 also YAY, my servers are all back up and running :D BrBridge: 08 Go figure. :/ BrBridge: 08 Yay for running servers though. :D BrBridge: 08 hmm, some other migrated channels have relays between the old Freenode channel and the newly created one on libera gehmehgeh: ah gehmehgeh: this, too :D gehmehgeh: *this one, too gehmehgeh: ECHO! :D BrBridge: 08 echo BrBridge: 08 *scnr* Spectre: Ok Spectre: Some bot MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: GUIEditBox: Allow selecting and copying read-only texts 1393f43c8 https://git.io/Js9TD (152021-05-22T12:39:41Z) Sven_vB: hi :) Sven_vB: I'm trying to find the definition of utf8_to_wide_c(). is it this? --> src/gettext.h:48:extern wchar_t *utf8_to_wide_c(const char *str); Sven_vB: oh, I misread grep. actually I'm looking for utf8_to_wide, without the _c Sven_vB: I guess it's src/util/string.cpp:90:std::wstring utf8_to_wide(const std::string &input) + src/util/string.cpp:149:std::wstring utf8_to_wide(const std::string &input) sfan5: yes wsor4035: test Jonathon: yay BrBridge: 07  my terminal font doesn't have the pickaxe so i get colorful boxes BrBridge: 07 the solution is to install GNU unifont BrBridge: 07 only terminal font i know with monochrome emoji that are actually, for the most part, recognizable BrBridge: 07 (disclaimer: i made a lot of emoji for unifont, but that was years back) BrBridge: 07 (so i might be a bit biased) Jordach: erlhemann: here's the MT engine doing something crazy Jordach: https://gfycat.com/grayimpracticalamericansaddlebred AntumDeluge: Is there a feature I can check before choosing to call between `object:get_pos()` & `object:getpos()`, `object:set_yaw()` & `object:setyaw()`, etc.? Or is it not possible to keep backward compat in this case? GreenXenith: getpos is so outdated I dont think its worth keeping backwards compat GreenXenith: but you can do local get_pos = object.get_pos or object.getpos AntumDeluge: Okay, that's good to know. Makes things easier. AntumDeluge: So there appear to be a bunch of different versions of the horse... AntumDeluge: kpgmobs ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=8798 ), mob_horse ( https://content.minetest.net/packages/TenPlus1/mob_horse/ ), whinny ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17170 ), lott ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=5578 ). Is anyone aware of which is the original? AntumDeluge: I created my own horse based on kpgmobs, but I'm wondering if that is the original horse. I want to make sure I get attributions correct. BrBridge: 15 test BrBridge: 14 1 Jonathon: bridgeception BrBridge: 14 Clearly what we need to do now is get MTDiscord to join the libera.chat #minetest so we can create a loop. BrBridge: 14 and then make a protocol for detecting loops Testmine: test failed BrBridge: 14 benrob0329: sorry about earlier, with the ircv3 stuff. we tried to discredit their efforts over some honestly minor issues. BrBridge: 07 You're good, I do the same thing sometimes but need to remember that largely volunteer projects are doing their best BrBridge: 07  Clearly what we need to do now is get MTDiscord to join the libera.chat #minetest so we can create a loop. BrBridge: 07  and then make a protocol for detecting loops BrBridge: 07 Hawk777 Soni there already is a type of message that bots should use so there is no loop BrBridge: 07 in IRC * twoelk: watches as speech from different sources unrolls and is broadcasted to different channels twoelk: I do remember all the noise when several VE servers where connected to the same irc channel BrBridge: 10 BrGandalf to BrBalrog on the BrBridge: Thou Shalt Not Relay! twoelk: hmm, using "/me" could be translated better through the bridge twoelk: or rather the use of could be indicated better :-) Dyedefra: Hi, i want build minetest-5.4.1 on GNU system, but require IrrlichtMT fork, idk how do Dyedefra: help pls :c sfan5: you can clone it from https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht and build it sfan5: uh but actually sfan5: 5.4.1 does not run with irrlichtmt, you need irrlicht sfan5: which your distributions can probably provide Dyedefra: oh Dyedefra: maybe im in wrong branch (?) Dyedefra: what MT version require irrlichtMT? Dyedefra: 5.5 maybe? wwar: I've mentioned before that password registering screen (in android) was small.. Just noticed 'change password' one is small aswell wwar: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/845256749124157460/Screenshot_2021-05-21-14-07-05.png sfan5: Dyedefra: yes, 5.5 will sfan5: try `git checkout stable-5` Dyedefra: builded! thanks! BrBridge: 07 why is minetest on fdroid so old? https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.minetest.minetest/ BrBridge: 11 there's currently no automated way of building mt android fully from source, but f-droid requires that VanessaE: If anyone comes looking for my Minetest servers, I am in the process of an OS upgrade on the server machine. Including the time it takes to make and restore the backups of /home, it'll be some hours before they're back up. VanessaE: (the backups are on an offsite storage VPS, so the limiting factor is mostly the network) VanessaE: ShadowBot and my quassel instance will both be down for the duration as well, in case ShadowNinja comes sniffing around 🙂 BrBridge: 15 AntumDeluge: there're also the petz horses/ponys that are about to take over many worlds. they even allow breeding for speed Sokomine: ah. a bridge between both networks? fine! BrBridge: 07 The bridge will be going down for a few while I do some reconfiguring twoelk: discord bridge is falling down falling down my fair lady specing: I wish noobgamerz: stop such the segregration lol, don't be so all-elite attitude Dyedefra: oh a bridge bot! Is a LUA bot? someone can share the bot code? benrob0329: It's matterbridge (written in Go): https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge Dyedefra: oh Dyedefra: thanks! benrob0329: It's a pretty well rounded bridge, it can connect to several different services benrob0329: apologies for the join/leave spam, I'm trying fighting with multi-platform bridging atm BrBridge: 14 hi :) Benrob0329: test BrBridge: 10 no pain no gain :P Benrob0329: Discord bridge no longer adds another prefix Libera side BrBridge: 10 is BrBridge a bridge bridge?? BrBridge: 07 No, its Benrob's Bridge :P BrBridge: 07 though I suppose it is bridging a bridge, so you're technically right BrBridge: 02 I don't get join/leave spam thanks to a Hexchat plugin I've added that only shows relevant joins/leaves CWz: what is BrBridge BrBridge: 08<[​0]> Bridge between Freenode and Libera Chat. erlehmann: I guess BrBridge was made so that the crypto bro still gets all the chatlogs BrBridge: 03 how is BrBridge set up? sfan5: it is clearly an interim solution BrBridge: 03 oh my bad I misunderstood BrBridge: 03 Im gonna get people to manually come to Libera BrBridge: 03 don't know if I want to connect Libera to discord though technerdz: just leave it connected via bridge like how it is now, more interconnection is always better since more people can participate in discussion without needing to download yet another piece of software just to connect to IRC just for this game project, and potentially needing to let it run in background so that all chats are still there to read if technerdz: missed, when they have multiples of other dev projects that use other single software for communication benrob0329: Heh, the global notice about Libera Spambots is funny, because there were freenode spambots on Libera the other day Jordach: mood BrBridge: 08<[​0]> There should really just be one bridge that connects to all platforms so we don't have the nested bridging issue. BrBridge: 07 *shrug* BrBridge: 07 I can connect BrBridge to Discord, but it works fine IRC-side (as well as any IRC bridge does at the moment) BrBridge: 07 I actually bridge my game's Discord, IRC, and Matrix together now using it BrBridge: 05 impressive. technerdz: I meant that as in continue bridging, not necessarily continue using the multiple bridges... if they can all be combined into just one bridge then that's much better BrBridge: 07 Well, I'm also battling my long-time enemy, @ everyone pings in Discord technerdz: there's setting `AllowMention` in matterbridge, which seemed to be added around last week or so technerdz: https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/wiki/Section-Discord-(basic) BrBridge: 07 Yeah, I'm grabbing the lastest git rather than the stable now Krock: @everyone BrBridge: 07 :trollface: technerdz: I mean, currently different bot is bridging freenode<-->discord where the ping wouldn't work (whereas BrBridge is bridging libera<-->freenode so it's handled differently) BrBridge: 15 so we already lost op BrBridge: 15 after celeron55 told us to not lose it BrBridge: 11 clavi? BrBridge: 15 hey BrBridge: 15 well the oldschool way was to pass op around, evidently that didn't happen BrBridge: 15 though I see there's chanserv already BrBridge: 11 yeah, you can use chanserv to get op if needed BrBridge: 15 I don't know if that's set up here yet BrBridge: 11 it is BrBridge: 15 oh good entuland: is my client freaking out or libera is disconnecting others as well every now and then? BrBridge: 15 works for me entuland: must be my connection... sigh... BrBridge: 07 Yeah Libera is doing what Freenode used to do to me sometimes and timeout BrBridge: 07 Also bridge restart BrBridge: 15 useless info: current libera servers are 5x Hetzner (DE), 1x Linode (UK), 1x OVH (PL), 1x Sunet (SE), 1x Seeweb (IT) technerdz: I hope OVH doesn't caught on fire though BrBridge: 12 /))))))))) BrBridge: 12 //) __ __\ BrBridge: 12 C==/_o|^|o_\ /!\ IRC.LIBERA.CHAT IS THE BEST IRC NETWORK /!\ BrBridge: 12 | _\ ) /!\ THE JEWS HAVE TAKEN OVER FREENODE, CHATS HAVE MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT /!\ BrBridge: 12 \ .--- / /!\ THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ BrBridge: 12 _/`-. __.'_ /!\ JOIN #LIBERIA TODAY. THIS CHANNEL HAS MOVED TO IRC.LIBERA.CHAT #LIBERIA /!\ BrBridge: 12 /` \`'-,._./|\ BrBridge: 12 / \ /`\_/\/ \ sfan5: thanks bridge, very useful BrBridge: 08 Ugh Krock: lmao xerox123: not a bad ASCII face BrBridge: 11 pls op me entuland: I feel a urge to move to Africa right now Krock: text wrapping kills it BrBridge: 15 can't you op yourself with chanserv, rubenwardy BrBridge: 11 I don't have permission on the access list BrBridge: 11 celeron55 does though BrBridge: 15 not even hop? BrBridge: 07 Staff need ops over here BrBridge: 11 not sure what hop is BrBridge: 11 apart from stuff in beer BrBridge: 15 half op BrBridge: 05 I don't get, why it always 'the jews' with these trolls BrBridge: 07 its low-hanging-controversial fruit BrBridge: 15 CWz: common 4chan/altright lore BrBridge: 07 also yeah, they're the center of a lot of conspiracy theories BrBridge: 15 rubenwardy: TL;DR if Op is the sheriff, Half Op is the undersheriff BrBridge: 15 it's an underrated irc feature imo BrBridge: 15 even though every client and network I can think of supports it BrBridge: 08 Freenode and Libera don't xerox123: im getting SASL only xerox123: which is annoying because I can't connect to make a services account BrBridge: 02 irc.libera.chat/6667? benrob0329: *confused "that doesn't help the libera channel" noises* BrBridge: 08 Hi xerox123 specing: It's time for Africa BrBridge: 15 luk3yx: huh, til BrBridge: 11 speak of the devil epoch: this side of the bridge can't see why I said "speak of the devil" epoch: celeron55 joined. or someone that grabbed the nick. BrBridge: 02 You're in Discord or Freenode? BrBridge: 11 that's freenode epoch Yaya MNH48: you would see MTDiscord in addition if it was from discord BrBridge: 02 I'm on the Libera network, I see Freenode/Discord the same from here BrBridge: 14 benrob0329 removed the MTDiscord part BrBridge: 02 what do you like those colors, on the freenode side we've tended to disable them but haven't done that here yet sfan5: colors aren't disabled here fyi sfan5: only in -dev I think BrBridge: 02 I like it BrBridge: 02 (WIll do my best not to abuse lol) celeron55: wait what's the color disable flag BrBridge: 02 c I think sfan5: +c celeron55: -dev and -hub have it, this one doesn't BrBridge: 10 nuuu epoch: 2,5colortest BrBridge: 11 colortest celeron55: colors are basically the emojis of IRC, in terms of annoyance BrBridge: 02 :P BrBridge: 11 what are emojis in IRC then? mojibake most of the time? BrBridge: 02 My emoji plugin is brok BrBridge: 10 epoch: Mostly unrecognizable tiny symbols. celeron55: if you need an emoji in IRC, you have to call the unicode consortium and ask them to add it BrBridge: 10 isn't the color thingie necessary to have the bot use different colors for the names in the bridge's messages? sfan5: ⛏️⛏️⛏️Minetest⛏️⛏️⛏️ BrBridge: 11 if it doesn't come from the unicode consortium it is just sparkly embedded image BrBridge: 02 My client supports the nicer versions of them https://i.imgur.com/gJ6JRrX.png BrBridge: 05 I had no idea IRC even supported emojis BrBridge: 10 garywhite: IRC is just text and so are emojis, it would take extra effort to *not*. celeron55: these days IRC basically defines text as utf-8 (not really, but de-facto), and utf-8 includes emojis entuland: Lone_Wolf: yeah, mine too 😂 entuland: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/845403341185744976/unknown.png rubenwardy: !rainbow unicorns MinetestBot: 4un7ic8or3ns celeron55: !rainbow 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 MinetestBot: 4😂😂7😂😂8😂😂3😂😂 BrBridge: 05 cheapie: Ah okay, I guess I've just gotten spoiled on Discord, lol celeron55: does someone's font rendering color those pickaxes? sfan5: I have microsoft fonts installed so emojis render in color here, yes sfan5: if they were grayscale !rainbow would probably work on them BrBridge: 10 ⛏️⛏⛏️ epoch: https://thebackupbox.net/~epoch/incoming/2021-05-21T20:51:28+00:00.png https://thebackupbox.net/~epoch/incoming/2021-05-21T20:52:43+00:00.png sfan5: !rainbow ⛏⛏⛏⛏⛏⛏⛏ celeron55: my terminal font doesn't have the pickaxe so i get colorful boxes MinetestBot: 4⛏⛏7⛏⛏8⛏⛏3⛏ sfan5: yep entuland: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/845403890660409354/unknown.png BrBridge: 10 I have a color emoji font (but not an MS one) on here, and have IRC color codes disabled anyway. BrBridge: 02 Yeah, mine is in-font it seems BrBridge: 14 ruby, greenium and sapphire pickaxes? BrBridge: 02 btw MinetestBot isn't registered here celeron55: entuland: that's an epic rendering BrBridge: 10 none of the above pickaxes went through as colored for me (but the ones I sent got colored for me as shown in the screenie) BrBridge: 02 Does your client strip colors? entuland: mine does not BrBridge: 14 bridge does(?) celeron55: the bridge strips colors celeron55: but uses them itself celeron55: such a selfish bridge entuland: all the names sent by the bridge are getting colored for me on hexchat entuland: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/845404550160580638/unknown.png epoch: q/names epoch: derp BrBridge: 13 libera is under DDoS currently, which is why there were disconnects earlier BrBridge: 11 official info or guess? BrBridge: 11 from #libera-dev BrBridge: 03 hello Pexin: unintentional ddos because too many new users all at once? BrBridge: 11 bonjovi BrBridge: 08<[​0]> VanessaE: how's that OS upgrade going? BrBridge: 08<[​0]> There's that, but I'm not surprised to here they're getting a proper DDoS given how much abuse the network has been having in its first few days. * BrBridge: 04 notices some discord server also under attack BrBridge: 05 [0], VanessaE is offline but she can be found on discord BrBridge: 08<[​0]> CWz: Yeah, I know, I'm using the bridge. Benrob0329: Please don't disable text formatting, its legitimately useful for expression (and also making the bridge look nice) Benrob0329: Disabling it because some people abuse it is like disabling all emojis because of your grandma. entuland: https://tenor.com/view/rage-grandma-angry-mad-throw-gif-15746344 entuland: disables throwables because of grandma BrBridge: 10 ah, the bridge doesn't yet convey the "/me doez ztuff" format * luk3yx: wonders if it does from IRC * BrBridge: 11 hides from the bridge epoch: it treats it as just another message it looks like * epoch: tries other direction just to double-check GreenXenith: fwiw, Discord /me msg is identical to _msg_, so IRC -> Discord just converts it to that, and Discord -> IRC doesnt bother changing it to * name msg entuland: ah yes, it's just a fancy italic in disguise here on Discord, I forgot about that AntumDeluge: I'm looking at the mobs_redo code for examples on how to change player animation. I tried using "sit", like is done here ( https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo/src/8012250258243709e95ff178d62e6a069ef74afa/mount.lua#L174 ) but doesn't work for me. Any guesses as to why? ungali: is there an active #minetest there? entuland: there is ungali: might as well take the jump now cheapie: ungali: There is, yes. ungali: it ungali: s a shame though entuland: the cycle of things 😄 Jonathon: shame libera doesnt bridge to matrix (that i know of) specing: Would be nice if we also lost the discord bridge in the process Kimapr2: why? is the discord bridge bad? cheapie: specing: I mean... it doesn't seem to be there yet, so there's still hope :P Kimapr: the discord bridge is here specing: Discord is a proprietary chat network, so it would be hilarious if Minetest were to keep bridging to it after migrating to libera chat because freenode became proprietary specing: And, it is also funny that all these projects (Minetest included?) that depend on GitHub, a proprietary closed-source social coding network, are migrating to libera chat specing: My face is red from all the facepalming epoch: where the like button in this IRC thing? Warr1024: Apparently freenode became "proprietary" back in 2017 and people just managed to keep it subtle up until lately. Quiark: specing: now consider all those cryptocurrency projects that have big mouths about "decentralisation" and then use Medium, Telegram and/or Discord specing: yes, hypocrisy all around specing: Minetest is not free software specing: Minetest is free software in license only. specing: the spirit is dead specing: if there ever was a spirit, but probably not. Quiark: I don't blame people for not having time to work for free on something Jordach: Quiark: >not mentioniung signal Quiark: No signal never claimed anything about decentralisation Quiark: But a lot of people are projecting that on them as if it was the solution to all problems. Jordach: shitpost: use iMessage for minetest communications Jordach: call me a madman but the FSF should've foresaw freenode getting rekt years ago sofar: FSF isn't relevant for freenode sofar: and FSF is irrelevant nowadays almost anyway as well GreenXenith: re: Discord bridge: 99% chance of staying Benrob0329: It's funny seeing people any non-Discord platform complain about Discord, and people on Discord complain about literally any other platform. Funny how people forget that it's ok to have different priorities than each other. Benrob0329: *people on Benrob0329: Personally, I want to move because I like the (previous) Freenode staff and feel that they will have the community's best interests in mind long-term. justcommenting: > Would be nice if we also lost the discord bridge in the process justcommenting: we should actually add more bridge to more platform instead of losing any of existing bridge justcommenting: people should be allowed to use whatever platform they like and still be able to participate in the discussion justcommenting: being all-elite and insisting on just one platform is not healthy at all, that's called 'segregration' justcommenting: not everyone would want to install IRC client just for one specific project when they already have other platform installed for all other projects * twoelk: is somehow reminded of the childrensbook hero Noddy Zander_200: hi benrob0329: test BrBridge: success! BrBridge: failure! BrBridge: well, one of the two BrBridge: No nicks, I'd think that would be a default settings but I suppose not BrBridge: 13Test benrob0329: Test2 BrBridge: 13I forgot the space, but at least it works benrob0329: Is Libera giving anyone else trouble at the moment? rubenwardy: no? benrob0329: hmm benrob0329: Maybe the server near me is just having issues, or it's my network BrBridge: 07 test benrob0329: There we go BrBridge: 07 Discord bridge ignores it (as expected, both should send notices) but I can always add the Discord to this bridge is GreenXenith wants it all to be homogeneous BrBridge: 07 *if rubenwardy: what is that? benrob0329: Bridge to Libera, was suggested and approved by C55 benrob0329: (only approved by, was not suggested by C55) benrob0329: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub/2021-05-20#i_5821807 benrob0329: I haven't added -hub yet because I want to make sure this is working properly before tying it to an account and dealing with autovoice BrBridge: 10 oh, I thought it was for Discord, so it's bridging to the-other-place-that-shalt-not-be-mentioned? eheheh BrBridge: 07 For now, yes. I may add other official spaces to it as well in the near future but for now this is fine BrBridge: 10 cool BrBridge: 05 benrob0329: The Discord bridge doesnt ignore it, its just not bridged here yet BrBridge: 07 It's also down atm, dunno if that's intentional or not BrBridge: 05 It is not intentional, no.. BrBridge: 05 Will the bridge you have work the same as the current bridge? BrBridge: 07 As in send messages to Discord via Webhooks? Yes. BrBridge: 07 its an intense of https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge BrBridge: 05 Can it send to the 3 channels already? BrBridge: 07 I don't have -hub added yet because I don't want to deal with autovoice right this sec, but yes BrBridge: 07 I don't have staff anywhere on IRC anymore so I can't do that without someone like VE lending a hand BrBridge: 05 a GreenXenith: b GreenXenith: c BrBridge: 07 Fair enough BrBridge: 05 We can adjust it later, I dont have time or energy to work with this right now BrBridge: 07 It works and that's all that matters entuland: noice BrBridge: 10 wow that was quite a delay ahahah BrBridge: 10 2 minutes flat :P BrBridge: 10 aaaand we'll get people calling other people BrBridge in addition to MTDiscord :P BrBridge: 05 Now what happened BrBridge: 05 Is it just me or are both bridges choking BrBridge: 10 your messages went through instant to Discord on my end BrBridge: 05 Yeah, after a while BrBridge: 10 and mine as well just went through immediate now BrBridge: 07 I think Libera is choking a bit BrBridge: 05 Cant imagine why :) entuland: yeah eheheh BrBridge: 07 Definitely not because of the sudden rush of new people BrBridge: 10 maybe it was just a temp hiccup, now it's quick both ways BrBridge: 05 Oh man I only just now noticed the this is getting out of hand, now there are 3 of them :D BrBridge: 10 :P BrBridge: 10 [05-20 17:56] Oh man I only just now noticed the this is getting out of hand, now there are 3 of them :D BrBridge: 10 now there are 6 ;) GreenXenith: yikes x) BrBridge: 07 Apparently there's a draft IRCv3 RELAYMSG spec for spoofing nicks, dunno if Libera or Freenode supports it though BrBridge: 10 the discord one used to rename itself to match the sender on the other side BrBridge: 10 I guess that's not feasible here on IRC GreenXenith: It still does GreenXenith: You just have to be speaking from Freenode for it to do so atm BrBridge: 10 on Discord all the messages are sent as BrBridge on my end BrBridge: 10 ah sorry, I missed that bit GreenXenith: Because BrBridge is the one bridging from Libera to Freenode GreenXenith: so anythingon Libera shows up on Freenode from BrBridge so MTDiscord displays it from BrBridge :] GreenXenith: Dont worry its totally not confusing at all BrBridge: 10 eheheh BrBridge: 10 well, as lont as it doesn't loop it's already great :P BrBridge: 10 s/lont/long BrBridge: 07 Could be worse, I could be bridging joins/parts too :P BrBridge: 14 there's a CTCP for spoofing nicks BrBridge: 14 (please don't use it) VanessaE: do like kaeza's hexchat script does for Minetest IRC bots: blahblahblah gets shortened to username@bot_abbreviation blahblah BrBridge: 14 https://github.com/SoniEx2/CTCP-S/blob/master/ctcp-s.md#forward BrBridge: 14 (please don't use it. altho if you do, put it at the end of the message instead of the start.) VanessaE: er shortened to blahblah BrBridge: 07 I'm hoping for either the RELAYMSG draft or the Display Name draft to become standard BrBridge: 07 client-only tags > CTCP BrBridge: 14 benrob0329: CTCP > waiting decades for server-side support VanessaE: for example, How are you? is how that person's chat looks coming from my Banananananananaland server BrBridge: 14 (also do either of those half-assed specs actually support nested bridges?) BrBridge: 07 I mean, IRCv3 has gotten decent support for universally helpful things like SASLv3 and Capability Negotiation BrBridge: 14 yeah but it never goes far enough BrBridge: 14 there's no IRCv3 server-specific emoji for example BrBridge: 07 I'd assume that a good bridge would see the intended nick and use that, so theoretically yes they'd support nested bridges BrBridge: 14 no that's bad BrBridge: 14 it should relay the whole chain BrBridge: 07 Also, you're quick to call a draft spec you know nothing about half-assed and start complaining about the progress of something which has helped the state of things and is continuing to make progress BrBridge: 07 I'd rather see IRCv3 fix the basics and make the spec consistent than do what Matrix did and focus on anything but BrBridge: 14 they keep ignoring real-life use-cases because those don't fit neatly in their model, rather than trying to make space for them BrBridge: 14 and there's also the whole "let's just keep sending passwords in plaintext to the server so the server can freely log it, and deprecate everything else while at it" issue BrBridge: 07 What, and what? First, no, that's a generalization (and a poor one at that). Second, sure, but SASL supports other auth mechanisms nowadays too BrBridge: 14 (paraphrasing your own messages) "the draft spec doesn't contain provisions for relaying the whole relay chain with the message" BrBridge: 08 There is a channel for IRCv3 discussion, if you had any ideas maybe that'd be the place to send them? BrBridge: 07 this is bizarre BrBridge: 07 with the two bridges BrBridge: 07  I'd rather see IRCv3 fix the basics and make the spec consistent than do what Matrix did and focus on anything but BrBridge: 07 lol BrBridge: 07 matrix is hilarious BrBridge: 07 matrix has these examples in the spec … that do not match the spec BrBridge: 14 also: if the "other auth mechanisms" are only EXTERNAL... ugh BrBridge: 14 (altho TLS-SRP with EXTERNAL wouldn't be half bad. but that's beside the point.) BrBridge: 07 Send your ideas to #ircv3 then :P BrBridge: 07 But I don't think it's unreasonable to not directly support bridge-chaining, since bridge-chaining is a bit PITA and it's better to support most use cases sanely than every use case insanely. Anyways, I'mma drop this before the channel is completely flooded with offtopic chit-chat BrBridge: 14 "just use a stack .-." BrBridge: 10 benrob0329: "flooded with offtopic chit-chat" oh, like there's anything else going on in here? :P BrBridge: 14 anyway sure, if we can get unbanned from IRCv3 we'll propose RFC 7628 support :3 BrBridge: 07 Actually yeah, Oauth for IRC SASL sounds nice BrBridge: 07 VanessaE: That's a good point, I suppose there isn't any on-topic discussion going on right now BrBridge: 07 Also unrelated but kinda related, apparently doing a ctl-z followed by running `bg` lets you move a process to the background in bash BrBridge: 14 yeah ctrl-z is awesome BrBridge: 07 I knew it was a thing but wasn't sure of the specifics and didn't want to inadvertently kill the bridge BrBridge: 02 equivalent of `command & disown` but during runtime? BrBridge: 10 I usually nohup command & BrBridge: 07 VE: Well yes, but I didn't for testing initially and don't really care about logs in this case wsor4035: something like that :P AntumDeluge: :) wsor4035: (not related to approval at all) but https://content.minetest.net/packages/AntumDeluge/server_shop/ what is the point of compared to any other shop mod that provides a admin vendor/admin settings for a vendor? AntumDeluge: I hadn't come across a shop that I liked, so I just made my own for my kids' server. Submitting it in case others might like it. AntumDeluge: I believe all other shops that I looked at have a limited inventory as well. AntumDeluge: Limited as in only a certain number of unique items can be added to the shop. Jonathon: 🤔 heh Jonathon: fair enough AntumDeluge: But I may be wrong, I didn't examine the other shops super-thoroughly. AntumDeluge: Looking over the shop that comes with the currency mod, I'm reminded that I didn't find one that let me set the item I wanted in exchange, or currency, without actually having one in my inventory. But again, I just may not have researched deep enough. Sven_vB: I'm working on a login manager for MT 5.4.0 on linux. I use --password-file for giving the password. Is there a way to tell MT that I intend to register a new account? The "wrong password" message should change to "Username already in use". If it's available, I'd like to skip the confirm password dialog, or reduce it to an "accept the rules" dialog if necessary. AntumDeluge: local foo={bar={}}; core.write_json(foo); -- this outputs '{"bar":null}'. Is there any way to get it to write '{"bar":[]}'? AntumDeluge: I've tried core.write_json(foo):gsub("\"bar\":null", "\"bar\":[]"), but for some reason it appends a "1" to it. AntumDeluge: *appends a "1" to the end of the line. AntumDeluge: Nevermind, I got it figured out by storing it in a local variable first. VanessaE: ATTENTION A number of people probably read about the hullabaloo going on with Freenode staff. including a leaked draft of a resignation letter. I just learned from Fuchs, it's official now. resignations incoming. The "leaked draft" is no longer a draft. https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt VanessaE: idk what kind of timetable they're looking at, but there it is. Ingar: allright time to install my own IRC server VanessaE: the chat network mentioned at the end of the letter is likely where "Freenode" is going, but it is not publically-accessible yet. They're still working on it. Ingar: VanessaE: it is somewhat ironic though you post those links from Discord ;) VanessaE: heh yeah I suppose VanessaE: I've just come to like DC more than plain IRC, go figure 🙂 entuland: I like'em both but IRC still has its charm <3 sfan5: hope you have set it's UI to "IRC mode" at least sfan5: its'* VanessaE: I do 🙂 Ingar: from a technical point of view, discord aint bad, fixes a numver of IRC's shortcomings Ingar: on the other hand, it's yet-another-closed-source-chat Ingar: which will probably die when the next big thing comes along Ingar: I totally assume discord already sells all their userdata PiMonkey: The amount of stuff nowadays that probably sells data means unless you really try its likely unavoidable xD Ingar: my biggest issue with discord is the fact it's not an open protocal Ingar: *protocoal Ingar: oh well Ingar: that word Ingar: (I wish I could crawl back into bed ;) ) VanessaE: protocol* Ingar: thanks! luk3yx: Oh my VanessaE: you forgot 😛 hlqkj: has anyone else received that message from -jess- of the freenode staff? i have just joined #freenode and seems like an earthquake is shacking the community, with a possible drastic outcome -- what will be of #minetest and related channels? rubenwardy: This is being discussed currently sfan5: and don't expect a conclusive answer within hours rubenwardy: Yeah hlqkj: oh okay! i don't, was just surprised no one was telling nothing here :) Kimapr: i also saw it jess: hey hlqkj, that's me hlqkj: i see hlqkj: sorry, i got alarmed probably bc i heard nothing of all this till 20mins ago. seems the thing has been going on for some time now, maybe even already discussed here pgimeno: https://kline.sh/ pgimeno: I'm concerned about my data and will be deleting it irrespectively of whether I stay or not pgimeno: deleted, but according to https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461 I'm late to the deletion erlehmann: crypto bros ruin fucking everything sfan5: pgimeno: even if you had done it yesterday I'd expect account data to still exist in several backups erlehmann: from a technical point of view, discord aint bad, fixes a numver of IRC's shortcomings erlehmann: Ingar, https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord erlehmann: Ingar, discord is hilariously buggy, read that article Ingar: erlehmann: I mean, as a concept. evidently it can't be trusted. it is closed source. erlehmann: Ingar i don't get what is nice as a concept Ingar: erlehmann: I can paste images! Ingar: erlehmann: I've been on IRC for 25 years now, I'll keep using it until someone prys it from my cold dead hands erlehmann: Ingar well technically it is a link to an image and not only do irc clients support that, but also xmpp has a more privacy friendly version of that Ingar: erlehmann: tbh, I do run IRC in a screen session on a VPS. No images there Soni: riff_IRC: we're moving to libera now riff_IRC: ok Soni: (this "we" includes minetest, incidentally. but yeah we already deleted our nickserv and whatnot.) pgimeno: sfan5: doesn't mean the backups are in the hands of the new company specing: hi specing: Are the cheat-client-we-should-not-mention devs contactable via a non-proprietary/closed-source chat (IRC, Matrix, XMPP?) erlehmann: specing, for dragonfire it might be EliasFleckenstei – for waspsaliva it is cora erlehmann: on irc here sfan5: you can probably @ them here and tell them to join irc, if they're one discord erlehmann: i think sfan5: (discord bridge) erlehmann: specing do you have a new cheat? Kelticfox: bloody hell, this place still exists erlehmann: Kelticfox not for long i guess Kelticfox: hahahaha Kelticfox: haven't been in here for years specing: erlehmann, sfan5 : oh, It hadn't occured to me to try to /whois their nicknames in commits erlehmann: specing, i assume you mean https://github.com/EliasFleckenstein03/dragonfireclient specing: erlehmann: well, yes and no: I have my own "cheat" client erlehmann: so have i erlehmann: but it is pretty basic Kelticfox: seeing if there is anyone I still know that was here when I had to deal with all the drama specing: and my own CSMs, but I'm thinking about rebasing upon waspsalive / dfc Sokomine: there are still a lot of great servers out there to enjoy :-) so fire up your mt :-) VanessaE: guys, please move all chat to irc.libera.chat #minetest. rubenwardy: are we officially doing it now? sfan5: it's not even ready VanessaE: sfan5 it's already sorted and working. GreenXenith: Do you have logging? And perms? and bots? rubenwardy: we have ownership of the channels. The staff are still overloaded with requests rubenwardy: Logging and bots needs sfan to change configs VanessaE: well idk who gets to move the bots 😛 VanessaE: (come to think of it, I guess *I* have to move ShadowBot since ShadowNinja is gone as usual sfan5: I'd give it at least one more day for things to settle down VanessaE: ohh ffs, there's too much crap to change to move ShadowBot VanessaE: why does ShadowNinja always have to pick complicated shit. VanessaE: puts it back up for now. VanessaE: let HIM move it. Kelticfox: Ah, there's people I know! pgimeno: I'm working on #xxxx support, when it's ready I'll keep it until ShadowBot is migrated riff-IRC: 'ello, any decision re: moving to libera? Jonathon: celeron55 the channels have already been duplicated there so i guess basically you can vote for it by joining there Jonathon: there refering to libera LoneWolfHT: I'm not too active here so I figure I'll just make a full switch to Libera to save me the trouble of keeping an eye on the state of things AntumDeluge: Added my "alternode" & "listitems" mods for review on ContentDB. Jonathon: done AntumDeluge: Wow, thank you. That was fast. :) Jonathon: i was around, no warnings, quick check, seemed ok Jonathon: *checks AntumDeluge: Added my "hidename" mod to ContentDB. Jonathon: Heh, ill look later if no one has gotten to it AntumDeluge: No rush, just wanted to mention it. AntumDeluge: Why is F-droid Android client repo not updated anymore? https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.minetest.minetest/ AntumDeluge: I would prefer to use that over Google Play. Releases get out faster too. sfan5: build system issues AntumDeluge: Oh. sfan5: f-droid wants to build everything from source on their servers, which isn't really possisble with our current arrangement sfan5: you can download the APK from github btw AntumDeluge: Oh, nice! Thank you sfan5. rubenwardy: #10529 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10529 -- Create Android dependency building scripts AntumDeluge: Interesting. I was actually thinking about suggesting packing irrlicht source with Minetest to make compiling on Windows easier. AntumDeluge: *packaging... AntumDeluge: (not that I am a Windows advocate, but it's what I am using right now) AntumDeluge: Though, I don't know if irrlicht is one of the dependencies being referenced in that issue. AntumDeluge: Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. :) AntumDeluge: sfan5, no apk for 5.4.1 on GitHub. sfan5: that's not on me AntumDeluge: Just mentioning. rubenwardy: I looked into it the other day but the build failed rubenwardy: well, it didn't fail - when I tested I still had an outdated version AntumDeluge: Oh, it looks like someone already suggested packaging irrlicht with Minetest: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11264 Jonathon: Its been discussed like 3 times and been shot down so far AntumDeluge: Doesn't really matter if it's "packaged" with the source, as long as there is a way to build it alongside. Jordach: it takes two minutes to download both and compile them AntumDeluge: It's a little more complicated on Windows, as it doesn't use the Unix directory structuring. Jordach: wat Jordach: literally the same Jordach: just with vcpkg AntumDeluge: I use MSYS2. Jordach: cmake gui makes it practically painless Jordach: i'm sorry i don't speak unsupported by core dev AntumDeluge: Guess its up to me then. ;) ar10ch: hi - when i used clear_craft and unregister_item, the items were removed in smart_inventory and unified_inventory, but now I'm back using sfinv they're present as unknown nodes, with their original recipes. Erm.. is this normal? Krock: bug ar10ch: ah ok thanks AntumDeluge: Thank you wsor4035, for approving my mods. Jonathon: eh np AntumDeluge: Oh, is that you Jonathon? Jonathon: also, my nick doesnt translate over the relay heh Jonathon: yeah lars[m]: Hello, i'm new to minetest. I have setup an server on debian. (Systemwide) how can i activate mods and worlds? I download the files into ~/.minetest/worlds and ~/.mintest/mods how can i activate them? MiniontobyPI: hi MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: MiniontobyPI: lars[m]: MiniontobyPI: ~/.minetest/worlds//world.mt add ¨load_mod_ = true¨ MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: MiniontobyPI: i want to report an bug rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: https://termbin.com/ki5d rubenwardy: Would be preferred MiniontobyPI: it is map_maper MiniontobyPI: it is map_maker MiniontobyPI: for ctf MiniontobyPI: i run server for friend to make ctf maps rubenwardy: I don't maintain CTF anymore MiniontobyPI: oh MiniontobyPI: who does? MiniontobyPI: or is it no-one rubenwardy: Lone Wolf is the lead dev rubenwardy: https://discord.gg/vcZTRPX MiniontobyPI: ok MiniontobyPI: ok rubenwardy: https://github.com/MT-CTF/capturetheflag/issues MiniontobyPI: ok lars[m]: /w"> Thanks MiniontobyPI: np MiniontobyPI: im runnign 4 servers atm lars[m]: /w"> Already enabled MiniontobyPI: ok MiniontobyPI: then start the world MiniontobyPI: is there somewhere the output of all the minetest.get_biome_name entuland: MiniontobyPI: you mean how to get the list of all registered biomes? that function simply returns a string according to the biome_id you pass to it MiniontobyPI: i need all biomes possibly to get them MiniontobyPI: im working on mod entuland: minetest.registered_biomes should give you all of them MiniontobyPI: and need all biomes MiniontobyPI: but will it work MiniontobyPI: with the get_biome_name entuland: I'm not sure I follow - sure it should work entuland: but registered_biomes will only give you the biomes that have been registered in that particular world depending on what world gen has been selected and if any mod added any biomes and so forth MiniontobyPI: ok MiniontobyPI: is registered_biomes an id MiniontobyPI: Map of registered biome definitions, indexed by the `name` field. entuland: there is another function that gives you the id provided the name entuland: you can find all of these things in the lua api: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5039 MiniontobyPI: i got them all now entuland: good MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: CI: add workaround to fix clang builds 134152227 https://git.io/Js0YH (152021-05-17T15:12:37Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix curl_timeout being ignored for Lua HTTP fetches 13b56a028 https://git.io/Js0YQ (152021-05-17T15:12:30Z) ar10ch: hello all - after a lot of looking around I'm left thinking that the F5 coords and debug info cannot be hidden from a player as they are a feature provided by the client.. Am I wrong? I hope so... ar10ch: ^ I mean for a server GreenXenith: Bug the devs about getting https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9315 merged ar10ch: I will... but how? GreenXenith: Good question :] Bump the PR or something? ar10ch: ah now its finally loaded - yes I read that last night, and Wuzzy's preceeding post also - it is true that it makes no sense in a survival server whosit: Hello. After some mod doing player:set_fov(0.9, true, 0.4) and then player:set_fov(1, true, 0.4), player is unable to zoom anymore. Even after dropping/picking up binoculars again. How to restore zoom? celeron55: whosit: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/class-reference/#objectref celeron55: "Set fov to 0 to clear FOV override." celeron55: (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L6424) whosit: oh. whosit: thanks. Was staring at those and didn't notice :\ AntumDeluge: How long does it usually take for a new mod to get reviewed on content.minetest.net? Just curious because I added it about a week ago I think. Didn't want to submit any more until I got at least one approved. Jonathon: you do not have the right to that name AntumDeluge: "No other packages of the same type may use the same name, except for the exception given by 3.2." AntumDeluge: "An exception to the above is that mods are allowed to have the same name as a mod if it's a fork of that mod (or a close reimplementation). In real terms, it should be possible to use the new mod as a drop-in replacement." Jonathon: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Zughy/whitelist/ Jonathon: seems @rubenwardy opinion is needed rubenwardy: I'm not too concerned as neither of those have APIs rubenwardy: so I think it's fine Jonathon: approved then AntumDeluge: If I submit a new mod, should I mention it here? Doesn't seem to get noticed on ContentDB. Didn't get any response on it? Jonathon: you could, i look at it once/twice a week AntumDeluge: Okay, thanks. AntumDeluge: Am I correct in assuming the "topic move request" thread ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10418 ) is dead now that ContentDB is in place? Jonathon: no, you can still request your mods be moved on the forums there, but active forum staff is rare AntumDeluge: Okay. wsor4035: i am on irc via matrix btw, but i dont check it as often as discord AntumDeluge: I asked about this a few days ago, but the person I spoke with didn't know about it. Perhaps rubenwardy, sfan5, Jonathon, or somebody with more knowledge about the engine core could give me some insight.... AntumDeluge: I'm building a mod that overrides some items, nodes, & ores from `default`.... AntumDeluge: Overriding the items & nodes is no problem, but I didn't find any specific method for unregistering/overriding registered ores... AntumDeluge: I'm wondering if it is okay to do `core.registered_ores[ore_id] = nil` or if that will do something unsavory.... AntumDeluge: My code is here: https://github.com/AntumMT/mod-mineral/blob/f39edd5/api.lua#L85 Jonathon: i would think thats fine, however try it and find out Jonathon: you can do similar to that for abms AntumDeluge: Thanks Jonathon, I have used it. I just didn't know if something was going on behind the scenes that I could see. AntumDeluge: *couldn't see Jonathon: https://github.com/BuckarooBanzay/eco/blob/master/mods/builtin_disable/init.lua reference for abms AntumDeluge: Thanks, I didn't even think about the need to unregister ABMs & LBMs. sfan5: modifying an entry in core.registered_anything is typically wrong sfan5: because then you change a definition on the Lua side while the same definition still exists in C++ AntumDeluge: Is there a proper way to unregister ores, LBMs, & ABMs? AntumDeluge: I didn't find any method for ores like there are for items: `core.unregister_item` sfan5: you can only clear all ores sfan5: LBMs and ABMs cannot be removed, you could potentially just modify their functions to do nothing (this will not save you performance however) sfan5: honestly if you are making changes this drastic you need to fork default sfan5: and not write a mod that throws out half after the fact AntumDeluge: default is a soft dependency. It registers its own ores regardless of whether default is being used. It's meant to be able to move away from dependencies on default. AntumDeluge: I'd rather patch the core engine than remain bound to default. AntumDeluge: Sorry, I won't respond for a bit. Gotta go. I will be back later this evening. sfan5: so you have a mod that touches existing content so far that it needs to remove a lot AND it also supports multiple games? IhrFussel: Does rapid changing of metadata in nodes also affect clients that are far away on the map? I sure as heck hope not IhrFussel: But right now a certain player on mobile experiences lots of lag as others work with mesecons and digilines and I wonder if this could be a coincidence IhrFussel: Looks like it fixed itself, but I still wonder which clients actually get affected by nodemeta changes...only those that have the map parts in view? sfan5: yes hisforeverkid: Hi Whitchmod has the GATE controler in it? Jonathon: mesecons i would guess hisforeverkid: thanks MTD erlehmann: Matrix is mess of javascript requiring a supercomputer to render text erlehmann: that is true erlehmann: Between competing XEPs, overcomplicated standards, and clients which are either dead, undergoing UI reworks, or are majorly incomplete, XMPP is just as much of a mess as every other slightly aged protocol erlehmann: benrob0329 not exactly true. compare the number of known-good interoperable xmpp clients and their interoperable features with *any* other protocol and you'll notice that is *a lot* more than for any other protocol. benrob0329: I don't think that's entirely accurate, but depends on your definition of a "good" client benrob0329: Conversations and the new MUC XEP both give me some hope for the future of XMPP, but the protocol is still waaay more complicated than I'd like (although it being general-purpose at the base-level does open up some cool possibilities) erlehmann: benrob0329 what criteria would you set? the three that come to mind immediately are MUC / OMEMO / sending images erlehmann: benrob0329 IMO protocol comlexity is only an issue when it actually inhibits something. for example, matrix has some things that are underspecified or the examples are not matching the specification, thus it is too complicated. also the matrix protocol requires some resources that make it unlikely there is ever going to be a performant way to follow big chatrooms (unless they changed it since last i looked). erlehmann: looking at a spec in a vacuum can be useful, but the real world exists and some fantasy chat clients don't Jordach: and people wonder why discord swept the floor with them erlehmann: did it? Jordach: ask someone who isn't versed in open source to choose between discord or matrix erlehmann: Jordach the discord login page lags my computer (which runs minetest just fine, lol) Jordach: not my fault your hardware is older than children turning 16 Jordach: (jesus fucking christ) erlehmann: almost right erlehmann: its from 2006 erlehmann: no its not your fault but maybe a chat application should not use more resources for its login screen than a voxel game for its entire run Jordach: the problem is using web frameworks for something they should not be used for benrob0329: erlehmann: Feature-complete-enough MUC settings, decent UX (if it's not worse than Hexchat at the very least), and multi-client interopt. Gajim sucks a bit on the UX department, PSI+ does a lot, and Dino isn't feature complete enough to use as the only client erlehmann: uh where is gajim worse than hexchat erlehmann: i use both erlehmann: also gajim is pretty easy to hack on! erlehmann: i did hat more than 10 years ago erlehmann: that erlehmann: ah i know erlehmann: gajim freezes sometimes if your connection stalls erlehmann: that is bad Jordach: for the record, the most mem discord prefers to use with the desktop app (alongside it's somewhat egregious caching of other channels in the background) is about 512mb erlehmann: Jordach popularity means nothing except popularity. erlehmann: i have about 2G RAM here and i have a handheld that has about 256MB RAM, both can run X11 and speak IRC and XMPP just fine Jordach: it got it's reputation in that it works for the majority of people erlehmann: its a gamer thing Jordach Jordach: they rebranded from that recently Jordach: like days ago erlehmann: no i mean its a gamer thing because of the resources erlehmann: every single person who has "no issues with discord" i chatted with or met has a gaming supercomputer Jordach: chrome right now on a single page is comsuming under a gig Jordach: hell discord runs fine on my 2013 MacBook Air with 4gigs Jordach: my windows system has been online for 21 days and has accrued about ~12GBs of memory leakage that it won't clear erlehmann: jordan4ibanez for example made a youtube video where he spawned hundreds, if not thousands of mobs in mineclone2 without any lag erlehmann: i can not do that even on the most powerful computer i have Jordach: trust me Jordach: his machine is peanuts compared to the Apple M1 MacAir i use for developing minetest with erlehmann: yeah ok so you do have a supercomputer erlehmann: but the point is not everyone has Jordach: relatively speaking Jordach: CPUs from early 2012 are fine for modern tasks erlehmann: regarding chrome, lol, i just tested it and i can have hundreds of tabs open in firefox and 3 tabs oben in chrome erlehmann: and chrome is using a significant faction of the firefox memory erlehmann: about 20 tabs of youtube and i can lag any machine i have in chrome Jordach: meanwhile firefox barely supports any standards other than plain HTML5 Jordach: HTML5 on paper is a good specification erlehmann: "chrome is the standard" is like "look, we have found a replacement for internet explorer, everyone use it" Jordach: the implementation is abhorrent erlehmann: whatever, i just care i can open hundreds of tabs without lag Jordach: i have a python app with 65GBs worth of sqlite dbs running in the background Jordach: consuming about 1GB of mem erlehmann: also i have earlyoom and despite it accounting for chromes high oom score, it still kills chrome tabs before anything else wheneever i try erlehmann: which is funny erlehmann: Jordach i don't know what exactly you want to argue except that YOU have a bunch of really powerful computers. as i said, not everyone has. i know several people, who, for example, play minetest and *coud not ever* play minecraft on their computers with comparable performance. erlehmann: could Jordach: i mean dirt cheap desktops for $300 would wipe the floor with any 2010 and prior hardware Jordach: even the iGPUs of modern chips might as well be better than whatever PCI-E GPU you've got strapped in erlehmann: regarding matrix, i stopped using it for performance reasons. erlehmann: regaring discord, the *real* issues are not the client: https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord erlehmann: regarding Jordach: ah yes my favourite Jordach: foss guys complaining about something that has no actual basis or effect Jordach: matrix does this on it's website and is fucking annoying erlehmann: this one is the funniest erlehmann: > I'd post more examples, but they're harder to find because a few months ago Discord staff wiped the bug report boards, deleting several years of issue reports. These issues still persist to this day. erlehmann: Jordach what does matrix do on its website, complain? or say "discord bad"? Jordach: what i'm referring to is the constant need to put itself higher cause muh open source Jordach: regular users do not care about that Jordach: only developers and programmers do erlehmann: pretty sure that cadence is not a guy, but i guess that's beside the point erlehmann: Jordach i agree to some extent, it is not inherently better just because the source is out there erlehmann: Jordach but discord would be a shit show even if that was the case Jordach: i like it when open source software disguises the fact Jordach: that it is open source and just from a visual inspection looks like a regular aopp erlehmann: well you have a really new apple machine so i guess you are somewhat biased Jordach: the ContentDB gets shit Jordach: for being dark theme by default Jordach: and people for some weird arse reason associate that with hacking erlehmann: towards the point of "i like it when my tech does not talk about its politics" erlehmann: lol GreenXenith: discord rebranded from being a gaming thing over a year ago Jordach: partially true Jordach: Mac gives me a UNIX like env where i can get GNU userland Jordach: but not deal with linux specific shit when it decides to break on its own requiring me to spend a day re-installing everything erlehmann: GreenXenith i do not mean the discord branding, i mean it is entirely logical that the chat client using THE MOST resources from all i have tried (by far) is also one that gamers use bc they have supercomputers (compared to every computer i have) GreenXenith: I was commenting on what Jordach noted earlier erlehmann: ah Jordach: i like the GNU tools Jordach: as well as the other UNIX programs Jordach: i like them a lot erlehmann: Jordach my experience with OS X is that a bunch of stuff does not work and can never be made to work and if it can be made to work it breaks with the next upgrade Jordach: i do not like living on the knife edge where a wrong command fucks me over erlehmann: ? Jordach: linux for a huge number of tasks still depends on the TTY erlehmann: are you regularly typing "sudo rm -rf /" and only GNU tools option "--no-preserve-root" is helping you? Jordach: despite the fact there's a functioning GUI Jordach: which is crusty as fuck and needs modernisation and or UX fixes erlehmann: Jordach i stopped using OS X about 2 years ago, can OS X by now do the thing where you can pin a window to be always on top of it? because there were windows that could be always on top (wifi password dialogue) but i found NO option to pin an arbitrary window, which was really really annoying Jordach: the base WM for macOS is terrible Jordach: i will concede that erlehmann: can we agree on "software was a mistake" Jordach: there are extensions that make it much more inline with KDE Jordach: yes Jordach: i appreciate the values the GPL and other foss licenses bring Jordach: i do not appreciate the use it or die mentality that comes with it erlehmann: what does that mean erlehmann: when daddy turing gave us the theory of thinking rocks it was not an instruction manual, it was a warning! Jordach: see MS' acquisition of GitHub Jordach: reee MS going to kill it erlehmann: github was bad before though, centralization is bad etc. pp. Jordach: well yes Jordach: changing the git remote of an existing repo is reasonably straightforwards erlehmann: also basically everything MS acquires kinda sucks sooner or later in some very microsoft-specific way. you can count on that like everything being acqui-hired by google soon to be sunset. :P Jordach: with google everything has a death clock Jordach: except the ads Jordach: with microsoft it's guarantee'd it'll be relatively supported for at least a decade erlehmann: btw "open source" is a business term for people who think "free software" sounds too hippie communist and that is why i don't like it and the mentality behind it. the "everyone can look at it and thus we have no bugs" thing is a lie. Jordach: there are only bugs if you're using it wrong erlehmann: Jordach oh lol, do you know gwerns analysis of google products? gwern did a mortality prediction and it turned out adwords had a higher survival score than search Jordach: see the minetest issue tracker for more information Jordach: lmao erlehmann: Jordach its a blast https://www.gwern.net/Google-shutdowns Jordach: now this is a motherfucking website erlehmann: the fun thing about it: the article is old enough that you can actually fact-check the predictions erlehmann: > Prompted by the shutdown of Google Reader, I ponder the evanescence of online services and wonder what is the risk of them disappearing. I collect data on 350 Google products launched before March 2013, looking for variables predictive of mortality (web hits, service vs software, commercial vs free, FLOSS, social networking, and internal vs acquired). erlehmann: Jordach if the minetest issue tracker bugs you (haha) then i suggest to look at the mindustry issue tracker Jordach: kek erlehmann: i told my friend "hey mindustry closes every bug really fast" Jordach: nothing like uninformed people writing bug reports erlehmann: and my friend pointed out that the mindustry dev mostly closes issues for being not reproducible erlehmann: and is kinda rude about it benrob0329: Well that was a wall of messages to catch up on erlehmann: because one rule is to add a savegame to your bug erlehmann: and a bunch of drive-by-shooters who fire their bug reports in the general direction do not do that Jordach: fucking hell Jordach: i know i've written a right shit bug report Jordach: but i try and go step by step and even include video footage of such erlehmann: so basically, at any point mindustry has 0 open bugs and over 2000 closed ones, most of which are either very quickly fixed or closed for not being reproducible Jordach: just like dwarf fortress Jordach: but i'm sure in that case it isn't a bug erlehmann: i thought dwarf fortress developers are basically ppl who can't program? Jordach: that said, a big issue with homebrew on mac is erlehmann: thus the sluggishness Jordach: their policy of arm64 macs won't be supported is extremely fucking annoying erlehmann: here funny https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry/issues benrob0329: erlehmann: Gajim has been undergoing some pretty major UX reworks over the past few years, but the new UI is still pretty unpolished last I checked. I'd argue that Hexchat has the much more mature interface, even if it is more dated overall Jordach: i prefer quassel because of the core capability, even then i'd rather use thelounge on an archlinux server Jordach: which means i don't even have to install the client interfaces erlehmann: benrob0329 no idea what you refer to, could you be more specific so i start hating gajim more? (the stalling issues really bug me) Jordach: https://gajim.org/screenshots/#&gid=1&pid=1 Jordach: this looks fine to me erlehmann: Jordach did you ever consider the MNT reform and if so what would be your reason to not get it, performance? benrob0329: Other than the interface feeling like a barran wasteland? Jordach: i'm going to need context for that erlehmann: wdym erlehmann: benrob0329 please be more specific Jordach: oh you mean this https://mntmn.com/reform/ Jordach: that's pretty neat Jordach: like the odroid products before it erlehmann: Jordach its the only new thing where you can change the batteries lol erlehmann: oh this is kinda funny https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry/issues/5241 Jordach: i mean that's not true for the most part erlehmann: > Remote servers list refreshes whenever you change the window size. Jordach: they're just a pain in the arse to change erlehmann: > Also, the community servers list disappears after resizing the window a few times, too. Jordach: lmao erlehmann: and the dev closes the bug report with "this is intentional" Jordach: i wise the MT core devs would pick up a sense of humour Jordach: and a slight bit of the authoritan juice benrob0329: I don't hate Gajim, it's just..how do I put this, it feels somewhat clunky and sparse..in the bad way. I haven't used it in a while, it's just not great from what I remember and I can't think of specific examples off the top of my head to illustrate it Jordach: benrob: because it looks a lot like late 2000s apps benrob0329: but more bland Jordach: which had a fuck-ton of whitespace and not a lot of things to fill it with erlehmann: that's a styling issue erlehmann: that can be solved, just change your gtk theme or whatever. benrob0329: At least 2000s apps had some style that made them interesting, even if they were a trainwreck Jordach: i actually think we're regressing UX and UI wise erlehmann: i agree with Jordach Jordach: the technical specifications that MS sent devs for Windows 95 are basically the golden standard erlehmann: gnome3 for example with this stupid "client side window decoration" Jordach: gnome are tards trying to enforce their viewpoints on people who tangentially use GTK benrob0329: My GTK theme is fine, apps have to make use of things properly to not look bad erlehmann: also the OS X human interface guidelines are p good, but have you ever checked how much of that OS X violates? benrob0329: changine the colors and button style won't magically improve UI design erlehmann: i have and it explains a lot about why, say, xfce feels so much more cohesive than os x Jordach: dark pattens says hello erlehmann: like with xfce upgrade it is *still* kinda windows 98 style Jordach: OS X problem lies in the fact that it's existed over three decades erlehmann: but with os x upgrade you get a new theme and new behaviours Jordach: from NextSTEP to OS X to macOS erlehmann: i mean, when i upgrade emacs i don't have to learn anything new erlehmann: but when i upgrade os x some stuff stops working Jordach: for macOS this is also true Jordach: it's probably because the APIs have changed between versions from deprecated to actually discontinued erlehmann: no not actually erlehmann: i mean stuff that would be easy to not chane erlehmann: change Jordach: anything specfiic Jordach: i manually compiled all of minetest's dependancies including cmake because of homebrew not supporting multiarch envs like M1 with Rosetta erlehmann: yeah, years ago a friend of mine did not upgrade os x for a while because i think “they removed the feeds she subscribed to from mail.app” benrob0329: As someone who was Linux-teethed on Unity, I live and breath the overview at this point and taskbars feel clunky Jordach: the macOS dock is a thing of beauty erlehmann: Jordach how do you deal with the dock and having like 20 terminals open actually? Jordach: on any other machine i'm immediately feeling claustrophobic with a few windows erlehmann: switching terminals was really hard for me on OS X Jordach: i use iTerm 2 Jordach: with tabs Jordach: the stock terminal is ass erlehmann: ok so the answer is you don't have 20 terminals erlehmann: but with tabs you can see only one Jordach: it supports split terminals erlehmann: so i mean if OS X can not do it it kinda explains a lot why i hate it Jordach: you can configure profiles for a lot of things Jordach: secondly, the moment i'm opening windows on my mac, i can browse them with control + up arrow or for that app specifically, use control + down arrow Jordach: browse them all with control + up erlehmann: because i often have several terminals on linux (i3) and some in front of apps, some in the background, constantly changing, some monitoring tasks, some not monitoring, spread over different desktops erlehmann: ah i did not know that Jordach: window management is an arse in general erlehmann: yeah i have not found anything nicer than i3 by now Jordach: you can also swap between workspaces (virtual) or full screen apps with control + left/right arrows erlehmann: its funny, window management is the one thing where free software is miles ahead in UX just because you have so many options that some of them are bound to be not awful Jordach: i like the ideals of i3 erlehmann: just compare kde vs os x Jordach: i do not like the learning curve to it erlehmann: is this another "i like the ideals but i hate it actually" Jordach: not really Jordach: more: what the fuck do i press to undo what the fuck i just duid erlehmann: Jordach it takes like 3 days or so to learn it and according to everyone who uses it it is worth it. only change i can suggest is to make the mod key the "windows" key (meta?) so that you don't clash with emacs bindings. Jordach: i mean i'm a nano person Jordach: if i want to edit plain text files, nano erlehmann: i3, like vlc or 7zip, is this one thing that a lot of people install even though it seems to be preinstalled nowhere Jordach: if i want to edit a bit more complex things, i deploy the VSCode Jordach: multi-cursor editing is marvelous erlehmann: Jordach you might like this one in principle maybe https://inconsolation.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/minime-the-9-8k-text-editor/ Jordach: i actually did a lot of my A Level coursework with nano over using word Jordach: i have thought about picking up raw C and ncurses erlehmann: Jordach ncurses has issues with unicode though erlehmann: if you want to make TUI fast i suggest urwid, but its python, so … Jordach: i don't mind python Jordach: i do mind the please do what i fucking say or i won't allow it Jordach: machines should be subservient even if it's for bad things Jordach: see: mozilla's rust erlehmann: > machines should be subservient even if it's for bad things erlehmann: sounds like C yes erlehmann: Jordach if you have too much time on your hands, plan9 is a beautiful thing, even as a corpse erlehmann: it has ruin value erlehmann: plna9, the aesthetically pleasing ruin erlehmann: like a greek temple overgrown by vines erlehmann: yesterday i started making builds on minetest servers like that, so that if they get griefed they probably still look good erlehmann: i made a greek style column, but the inside was an obsidian column erlehmann: then i exploded parts of it erlehmann: result was kinda cool erlehmann: Jordach the music you made for minetest, is there any source code to it? erlehmann: or source files, for that matter erlehmann: not that it matters, but i counted and i have like 7 or so computers in this room that can not run discord and like 1 that can and that one belongs to my employer erlehmann: coincidentally, all of them have no problems with irc or xmpp erlehmann: and yes, i do count various handhelds erlehmann: if it has busybox or coreutils, its good enough for me Jordach: long gone Jordach: didnt have good file management practices in 2011 Jordach: i wasn't even in my 20s until 2016 Jordach: my urge to learn new and different things started around 2015 Jordach: long after i finished public school shit unfortunately erlehmann: Jordach ah sad erlehmann: Jordach i see it with rendered assets too often, like music and 3d models erlehmann: or even 2d logos Jordach: I’ll probably make some more now that my machine is capable of actual real-time rendering of audio Jordach: My desktop is that stronk erlehmann: it does not take *that* much resources erlehmann: like really Jordach: Synthesis on CPU crackles and pops Jordach: If you don’t have enough grunt Jordach: It sounds like sss Jordach: Ass and it has huge latency erlehmann: Jordach take this e guitar i made and enjoy http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/pluck.c Jordach: Not great when you’re performing with an attached midi device erlehmann: it can make guitar sounds on a potato computer Jordach: It’s 8am in bongland Jordach: And I wake up in the late evenings these days erlehmann: the worst thing about it is erlehmann: #define R rand()&0xFF|0x17 // almost obvious erlehmann: because it is no longer almost obvious to me why i masked it erlehmann: Jordan just do: tcc -run pluck.c |aplay -f u8 erlehmann: oh it sounds like i intended with MU_LAW erlehmann: tcc -run pluck.c |aplay -f MU_LAW erlehmann: or maybe not erlehmann: hmm erlehmann: i don't remember MinetestBot: 02[git] 04AMDmi3 -> 03minetest/minetest: Use --image-base instead of -Ttext-segment for lld linker on FreeBSD … 1353dca4f https://git.io/JsZH3 (152021-05-15T08:15:03Z) rubenwardy: I really don't like how the trim "supercomputer" was being used in this conversation erlehmann: rubenwardy you mean as slang for something thats probably recent and cost a lot of monies? pgimeno: @Jordach quite interesting your pluck.c. I ported a famous music generation program to 44.1K 16bit: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/Gists/src/music--port-algorithmic-music-to-16-bit Bastrabun: If this is not the place to ask such things, could you please tell me where the profiler wizards live? The question: When there are more than 20 players on the server simultaneously, I get lagspikes every 5 seconds. Profiler says builtin spikes to 186 ms of an already increased to 0.18 serverstep, with a total of 272 ms. Server is 5.3.0 on MTG, heavily modded. Bastrabun: builtin: | 712 | 186659 | 26334 | 3.5 | 73.8 | 20.8 - globalstep[1] ..................................... | 1 | 173337 | 21293 | 0.0 | 72.3 | 13.4 sfan5: the only globalstep handler builtin itself registeres is for minetest.after sfan5: not sure if the profiler tracks that correctly sfan5: (pretty sure it should though) Bastrabun: So I should look for minetest.after calls that trigger every 5 seconds? sfan5: perhaps whosit: Bastrabun: do you use xp_redo mod? Bastrabun: Or globalsteps that trigger a minetest.after every 5 seconds. Thanks, I'll take a look. Any idea how to decrease the number of suspects without adding t1,t2,dt to every of those steps? whosit: Bastrabun: we have same problem with 5-second spikes that caused by forced metadata sync, from mod that does "for each player: player:get_meta(); meta:set_int()" ... I was trying to profile it, and it came down to this pattern, I think it triggers garbage collection and forced db commit, or something. Not sure whosit: how often mod does it and how much meta is modified does not matter, only thing that causes lag spikes is doing it for many players between "map saving" Bastrabun: We do use xp_redo, but the saving lagspike you refer to has been set found and solved. specing: whosit: bastrabun is alias specing: lol pgimeno: oh wait I meant erlehmann not Jordan erlehmann: what pgimeno what is it pgimeno: [0515 13:50:24] @Jordach quite interesting your pluck.c. I ported a famous music generation program to 44.1K 16bit: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/Gists/src/music--port-algorithmic-music-to-16-bit erlehmann: pgimeno ah you mean my plick.c erlehmann: ah erlehmann: pgimeno i can recommend my SIGINT talk "making music with a c compiler" and sorry for my bad englishings Krock: pgimeno: nice tunes pgimeno: Krock: not mine, I just ported one to higher quality :) Krock: wow. you basically revived your personal page after 15 years? wow pgimeno: I don't consider it dead, I just lack motivation to update :) pgimeno: erlehmann: my 16-bit 44.1K version of your 8-bit 8K rolling.wav: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/pastes/rolling-16b.c pgimeno: I haven't finished watching the video pgimeno: the "percussion" sounds awful at full quality ^.^ pgimeno: erlehmann: as I watch the video... not sure if you know about Jot, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Jot - a Turing-complete language where you can't possibly make a syntax error. Not useful for your purpose as you need a non-Turing-complete language but thought you'd be interested anyway :) pgimeno: hm, I should probably take this to PMs erlehmann: pgimeno i heard about it, but the problem was in general that people always wanted turing complete languages which is really bad for live synthesis erlehmann: you always need to be done in finite many steps erlehmann: otherwise no synthesizer sound pgimeno: yeah absolutely, you mention the halting problem and I'd add the looping problem - does it loop, and after how many samples if so? erlehmann: pgimeno no loops allowed easy erlehmann: that is already a halting problem sagax: hi all! sagax: how to auto-feed pets in mineclone2? erlehmann: sagax use a hacked client, like waspsaliva, you can then write a csm erlehmann: sagax you can probably make killaura into feed-my-pets-aura sagax: uff, hard sagax: thanks pgimeno: erlehmann: nice talk :) and that graphic glitch frontend is awesome, trying it right now MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix list of libraries included in AppImage 13d44f1aa https://git.io/JsCse (152021-05-15T21:56:33Z) AntumDeluge: I'm looking at VanessaE's lavalamp from the homedecor modpack. I've been changing the value of "use_texture_alpha" between "opaque", "blend", & "clip" but I don't see any differences. Is there a setting that I am missing in the client to enable transparency? AntumDeluge: Maybe that particular doesn't actually have any transparent pixel. AntumDeluge: *particular node... entuland: if you're doing that to fix warnings, it's likely just some transparent area unused by the model itself (the transparent part may be outside of the UV mapping) entuland: I got plenty of those on my mods AntumDeluge: Ya, changing the deprecated "use_texture_alpha = true" entuland: the first occurrence of that warning should mention that it may be outside the used area entuland: the game doesn't seem to check whether it makes a difference or not (it may be even unable to, as it may be under the control of the irrlicht engine, can't tell) AntumDeluge: I was right, the lavalamp doesn't have any (semi-)transparent pixels. Emerald2: whereis joe Emerald2: Oops. Emerald2: Haha sorry should have read where I was typing first. :D pgimeno: @staff, freenode may be turning into nonfreenode - I'd suggest to elaborate a plan for moving Krock: is there any official news in this regard? pgimeno: it's possible that there will never be pgimeno: https://gist.github.com/realrasengan/88549ec34ee32d01629354e4075d2d48 Kimapr: there's also this, probably not official or anything though: https://p.haavard.me/407 pgimeno: as far as K know that's a draft and not effective yet pgimeno: I* pgimeno: kurahaupo, let me be super clear, no one has resigned, these letters are unpublished drafts that are not reflective of the situation pgimeno: and in fact only two of the links work pgimeno: but it's a fact that christel has been suspended, /msg nickserv info christel sfan5: planning anything now is premature Jordach: easiest method would've been ejecting the offender immediately Jordach: with great power comes great responsibility celeron55: it appears an outsider has legal ownership, you can't just eject that celeron55: based on those two texts celeron55: plan for moving is, we have plenty of sites and groups outside freenode for communicating a move to anything, no need to panic celeron55: if freenode goes down, staff decisions will happen either by email, on the forum or on matrix celeron55: (or even github) pgimeno: and that's a reasonable plan :) GreenXenith: Guess I should prepare to potentially need a Matrix bridge ;p celeron55: and of course the IRC channels will likely move to something else the real freenode staff presents, however so far this could be just fake news and there have been no inconveniences to MT pgimeno: celeron55: certainly not fake news, although the situation is not clear. The line I quoted from kline is taken by me directly from #freenode, rasengan has confirmed to me that he is github.com/realrasengan and he is apparently the owner of the Freenode Limited company. pgimeno: join #freenode if interested benrob0329: this whole thing is a big yikes ngl rubenwardy: Wtf even benrob0329: #freenode is both highly entertaining and legitimately concerning to read right now. rubenwardy: mildly concerning rubenwardy: if we have to abandon ship, I'd suggest matrix over another IRC instance benrob0329: It appears that the situation with staff members resigning isn't quite what the links being passed around would lead you to believe rubenwardy: yeah, there's a draft disclaiming. They probably should have put them behind basic auth benrob0329: Some got leaked from what I can tell benrob0329: So best to have an official source than just a rumor I suppose specing: Speaking of non-free, when are you planning to abandon GitHub and Discord? rubenwardy: we don't own Discord rubenwardy: as in, the Discord server is ran independently specing: you don't own Freenode, either rubenwardy: no, but we own these channels rubenwardy: "own" being the wrong word specing: and be careful when speaking of "Discord server", because what their marketing refers to as a server is actually just a room on their own servers rubenwardy: 👍 benrob0329: RE Matrix: I don't know whether it's best for official stuff yet. Synapse (the older, most mature server implementation) is a major piece of work, and Dendrite (the better rewrite in Go) wasn't making a ton of progress last I saw (it's been a while though so someone should verify this if I don't) benrob0329: Combine that with mostly incomplete or badly-designed clients and I still have mixed feeling about relying on it benrob0329: I absolutely support having it as an option (I admin the MT Matrix community after all) but if I'm being honest it still has a ways to go as a platform specing: Matrix is mess of javascript requiring a supercomputer to render text benrob0329: Well, no benrob0329: Element, sure benrob0329: Matrix is just the protocol + wider community specing: XMPP works pretty well benrob0329: Well...also no, but kind of benrob0329: XMPP is a mess in different ways benrob0329: Between competing XEPs, overcomplicated standards, and clients which are either dead, undergoing UI reworks, or are majorly incomplete, XMPP is just as much of a mess as every other slightly aged protocol (just with less community than IRC and IRCv3 pushing to improve it) benrob0329: I suppose there are no good options, but it's worth noting that the Freenode Staff have helped MT in times past and seem like reasonable peeople. Seeing what they do would be my recommendation Kimapr: specing: weechat-matrix disagrees specing: I used weechat-matrix in the past but stopped, not sure why specing: probably wasn't impressed benrob0329: As of right now though, the situation is still unclear and doing anything rash is a bad idea specing: I support doing something about github and discord benrob0329: weechat-matrix works, but it was slow (due to the way weechat works) and won't be much better than any other weechat backend, because it's weechat specing: I don't know about freenode, but it can be dealt with after they've been proprietary for a decade. Which is about the time the github problem has been not seen and ignored specing: and how many, 5? years for discord benrob0329: Discord is an official community, but MT doesn't rely on it and the project won't be hurt if it goes away benrob0329: Github isn't going away either, and hasn't done anything hostile so far. While I personally fall back on Gitlab because I like using FOSS to support FOSS, I don't see an absolute need to run away from Github. benrob0329: That being said, Reddit stopped being FOSS too and (from an outsider's perspective) has only gotten more and more corporate over the years. Kimapr: reddit was open sauce? benrob0329: Long time ago rubenwardy: https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit benrob0329: See also: https://fossbytes.com/reddit-open-source-code-closed-reason/ AntumDeluge: Having trouble getting a detached inventory to display, not sure what I changed to make it not work... AntumDeluge: local inv = core.create_detached_inventory("detached:" .. ss.modname, callbacks, player:get_player_name()) AntumDeluge: inv:set_size("deposit", 1) AntumDeluge: formspec = formspec .. "list[detached:" .. ss.modname .. ";deposit;0.2,1.5;1,1;0]" AntumDeluge: Oh, I think I see what I'm doing wrong. When I create the inventory, I don't prefix the name with "detached:". AntumDeluge: I mean, I'm not supposed to do that. It should be core.create_detached_inventory(ss.modname, callbacks, player:get_player_name()) AntumDeluge: Yep, that was the problem. :) SusWombat: Hi everyone im new to minetest and id be intrested in modding. How is the modding community in minetest? is the player base intrested in mods or are they playing exclusively vanilla? Jonathon: Depends which game SusWombat: What do you mean? Jonathon: If minetest game, then everyone plays with mods as its terrible without Jonathon: If its nodecore, there are a mix of vinilla and modded players Jonathon: Mineclone2 is vanilla, mainly because not many mods support it SusWombat: are there any major limits in creating mods? or could i possibly do all i could in minecraft? Jonathon: Theres not really limits per say, theres more limits in the sense of yes you can do this, but it will destroy performance, etc SusWombat: okay Jonathon: There is a node and a world size limit, i guess those are hard limits SusWombat: i havent made mods in neither mt or mc but im intrested in. but i dont really want to learn java and also the load times of mc are horrible 😦 Jonathon: For load times in minetest the main thing is compressing your textures AntumDeluge: I've got an unknown node that I can't dig up. No info is given in the console when I do nor in the debug info. I know it was some kind of sapling. Any ideas why I can't dig it? It is in a protected area, but I own the area. Krock: AntumDeluge: do not wield a special tool. it's always possible to dig unknown nodes using bare hands unless you tweaked the default AntumDeluge: Can't dig with bare hand either. Haven't modified default. Krock: then worldedit it away AntumDeluge: I remembered what it is, it is "farming_plus:cocoa_sapling". I have a mod that will clean it now that I know the name. AntumDeluge: I still need to learn how to use worldedit. AntumDeluge: cleaner: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18381 AntumDeluge: Was just strange that there was no information output when I pointed at it or tried to dig. AntumDeluge: Is http://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ generated from lua_api.txt? Jonathon: yes Jonathon: minetest tools is also generated from it AntumDeluge: Minetest tools? Jonathon: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=GreenXenith.minetest-tools AntumDeluge: Oh. AntumDeluge: "core.create_detached_inventory(inv_name, {})"; "core.get_inventory({type="detached", name=inv_Name})" = Client crash: "Unknown InventoryLocation type" AntumDeluge: Oh, maybe I need to store it in a global: myinv = core.create_detached_inventory(inv_name, {}) AntumDeluge: Nope, that didn't work. entuland: you can get that reference but your get_inventory should have worked entuland: the API clearly makes that example as you used it AntumDeluge: The formspec line is: "list[" .. inv_name .. ";deposit;0.2,1.5;1,1;0]" GreenXenith: detached requires a name entuland: out of curiosity, why are you using core. instead of minetest.? AntumDeluge: ....because it doesn't take as long type. ;) AntumDeluge: "core" is just an alias for "minetest". GreenXenith: Oh wait you do have the name entuland: uh, I thought it was deprecated or something to use it, ignore me 😛 entuland: anyways, as far as my reading of the API goes, what you wrote above should have worked entuland: uh... "inv_Name" vs "inv_name"? entuland: is lua case sensitive? AntumDeluge: That was just a typo, it's correct in the code. entuland: then I don't know AntumDeluge: Well, guess I'll be using "player" type formspec then. luk3yx: > The formspec line is: "list[" .. inv_name .. ";deposit;0.2,1.5;1,1;0]" luk3yx: AntumDeluge: Does `inv_name` start with "detached:"? luk3yx: If your detached inventory is called `inv` you have to use `detached:inv` in formspecs MineTester: Hi all, running in to an odd issue and wondering if anyone has seen this before. I set up a minetest server on a VPS, but when I connect to it from two different machines, it drops my internet. I have to reset switch/router for internet to come back. Once I'm connected it's fine smugler5: !cmd team PantsMan hisforeverkid: Hi I need to remoce hisforeverkid: Hi I need to remove trees I have the treecpacitor mod . Do I have o hold the sneek key to activate it? calcul0n_: with this mod it's always enabled i think, but i'm not sure i'm thinking about the same hisforeverkid: calcul1on Thanks for the comback entuland: whosit: got feedback from rubenwardy, turns out the book needs fixing that section, it's by design for those recipes to override each other, for the empty strings to get ignored and for the "item shapes", so to speak, to work in the same way in different positions of the grid whosit: entuland: thank you... but if implemented as described in the book, that could be a clever way to have it both ways - be able to have both position-independent and position-dependent recipies. Although, it may be confusing and require some special handling when displayin recipies in-game... entuland: yeah that would be nice, but seems like it was just a misunderstanding of how the engine works entuland: seems like it always worked like that AntumDeluge: luk3yx, inventory name was "server_shop". AntumDeluge: `core.create_detached_inventory("server_shop", {})` AntumDeluge: Are colons (:) okay to use in formspec strings? They don't have any special meaning do they? I think only comma & semi-colon need escaping, correct? AntumDeluge: Actually, guess luk3yx already answered that for me. :) AntumDeluge: It looks like a detached inventory must be prefixed with "detached:" no matter what. Am I wrong? AntumDeluge: *detached inventory name... swift110: hey all AntumDeluge: Hi swift110 sfan5: AntumDeluge: yes AntumDeluge: Thank you for the confirmation sfan5. swift110: nice swift110: how goes it AntumDeluge AntumDeluge: Pretty well. I think using this detached inventory is going to solve my problem. swift110: thats cool AntumDeluge I find minetest pretty hard to get into which is why i play it so rarely appguru: AntumDeluge: colons are fine, backslashes, [ and ], ";" and "," must be escaped. You should be using minetest.formspec_escape though as that might change. AntumDeluge: Thank you appguru. AntumDeluge: I have a texlist element ("textlist[2.15,1.5;9.75,3;products;" .. get_product_list(id) .. ";" .. tostring(selected_idx) .. ";false]"). When a textlist event occurs I can retrieve the selected index with "fields.products".... AntumDeluge: But is there a way to retrieve that selected index with a button push event? (type(fields.products) = nil) AntumDeluge: I'm looking at http://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/formspec/#elements but haven't seen anything yet. AntumDeluge: Can a textlist element be configured separately just like a detached inventory? AntumDeluge: At the moment, I am storing the selected index in player meta data. But I was wondering if there is a better way? entuland: AntumDeluge: to my knowledge, no, you have to listen to the events and get the info about the selected element in the textlist when it changes, then store that info somewhere to be used afterwards entuland: I never found a way to query those widgets outside of the events they raise AntumDeluge: Okay, that's what I'm doing right now. Is storing in player meta data a good option? entuland: that I can't tell, I used smartfs so far but this very subject got discussed recently and rubenwardy suggested looking at this instead: https://github.com/octacian/libuix AntumDeluge: Thanks entuland, I will have a look at that. entuland: yw Jonathon: Wait! This library is in super-early developmental stages. It can't be used at all yet in the real world. But do not fear! There is not much more to be done. In the meantime, contributors would be greatly appreciated. There is no public todo list at the moment, so if you are interested please contact octacian. entuland: thanks for the heads-up Jonathon, I'll keep that in mind if I happen to mention it again - also, AntumDeluge ^^ entuland: (well that was a bit confusing me as the nick here on Discord and the name shown on IRC didn't match 😛 ) Jonathon: yeah Jonathon: im used to it entuland: I thought I pinged the wrong person 😂 Jonathon: as long as you dont call us over here mtdiscord, i dont care entuland: I almost did that the first time ahahaha entuland: on the IRC side it's very odd cause it looks like there is some guy named MTDiscord with serious personality issues ahahaha Jonathon: lol wsor4035: i mean, you would think at the rate the irc mod is used that people would be used to relays entuland: it definitely tricked me cause I've been away for a while and I forgot there were such bridges Jonathon: maybe its just me that isnt that confused entuland: oh I'm sure there is plenty of people around that aren't confused either entuland: maybe it's just me not used to it yet exe_virus: Oh that was a different testing I promised to Xenith, my bad. What do you want me to benchmark for you? I could show you my lua processing times for boxgen, it's very compute intensive and will demo the differences starkly haha exe_virus: I can show luaJIT vs PUClua5.1 vs luaJIT with JIT off, and lua 5.4 if desired Jonathon: see ping in #modding exe_virus: kk, I'm caught up, Give me a bit here to get that typed up Jonathon: ty exe_virus: Here's my test program I'm using so far. It's bad because os.time() is only accurate to seconds, does provide some info though: lua a = {"one", "two", "three", "four", "five", "six", "seven", "eight", "nine", "ten"} local time = os.time() b = {} c = 0 for i=0, 5000000, 1 do for i, v in pairs(a) do b[i] = v end end print("Pairs executed in " .. os.time()-time .. " seconds.") time = os.time() for i=0, 5000000, 1 do for MTDiscord: i, v in ipairs(a) do b[i] = v end end print("IPairs executed in " .. os.time()-time .. " seconds.") time = os.time() for i=0, 5000000, 1 do for i=1, #a, 1 do b[i] = a[i] end end print("Indexing executed in " .. os.time()-time .. " seconds.") exe_virus: For PUClua 5.1, That resulted in: 2 seconds for pairs() 4 seconds for ipairs() 2 seconds for indexing() For luaJIT that resulted in: 0 seconds for all.... So I took the for-loop max variable size and increased it by a factor of ten for each, resulting in: 1 seconds for ipairs() 5-6 seconds on average for pairs() 1 seconds for indexing. I am testing luaJIT again to compare indexing to ipairs better now exe_virus: Scaling up another factor of ten, indexing was 12 seconds and ipairs was 12 seconds, but realize my method of access is probably less than ideal using indexing. Often indexing is fastest on luaJIT. roughly 5-10% gains in my experience. Now for PUClua 5.4 exe_virus: and luaJIT in interperter only mode exe_virus: For luaJIT in interpreter only mode with the same setup as PUClua 5.1, I got: Pairs(): 0 seconds exe_virus: IPairs executed in 1 seconds. Indexing executed in 0 seconds. exe_virus: so much faster than PUC lua in all regards, same relative relationships exe_virus: Finally, results from PUClua 5.4: Pairs executed in 2 seconds. IPairs executed in 2 seconds. Indexing executed in 1 seconds. exe_virus: @wsor, user of things Based on my tests, yeah luaJIT still kicks butt in either interpreted mode or JIT mode. Pairs is better for interpreters for speed, but you also don't have nicely sorted output. exe_virus: It also shows that indexing is likely better on PUC lua in general Jonathon: thank you MiniontobyPI: hey MiniontobyPI: hey MiniontobyPI: how to resize a picture for a hud image MiniontobyPI: like this MiniontobyPI: [combine:8x8:-8,-8=character.png MiniontobyPI: how to do this for an hud image MiniontobyPI: can someone help me? entuland: MiniontobyPI: reading the API seems like there are fields you can pass to decide the scale, there shouldn't be any need to use those image filters MiniontobyPI: hmmm MiniontobyPI: sad entuland: why sad? doesn't matter how you achieve it, the point is achieving it, no? MiniontobyPI: idk how whosit: found a cause for some broken recipies in mods: empty fields in recipies (now?) are treated same as skipping them? whosit: so {"mymod:diamond_fragments", "", ""}, is equivalent to {"mymod:diamond_fragments"} whosit: but modding book says that empty fields must also be matched for recipie to work whosit: this breakes recipies like this: whosit: https://github.com/runsy/jonez/blob/master/init.lua#L277 whosit: for palace_window_top and palace_window_bottom whosit: since "" are just thrown away, those recipies are conflicting whosit: when this change has happened? is it a bug? entuland: there is a ton of such recipes leveraging on partial use of the crafting grid, if those empty strings were ignored, lots of default minetest recipes would either stop working or work in different ways entuland: say, the simple torch entuland: are you sure that is the exact spot of the problem? whosit: sorry, it's hard to explain it clearly, but I will try :) entuland: uhm... maybe the torch wouldn't be affected in that case, gotta check the source whosit: there are "shaped" recipies, and modding book says that you can either specify empty slots in them (with empty strings "") or leave them out. And recipie matching behaviour will be different whosit: if you leave them out - the recipie should be movable around the grid whosit: if you specify empty strings, for example around torch, then it will match only placed in the center of the grid whosit: that's how Modding Book says it should work whosit: and I found some recipies (like jonez mod) that depend on this behavior of "matching empty strings" whosit: but, currently, that does not work in the engine whosit: and {"mymod:diamond_fragments", "", ""}, is equivalent to {"mymod:diamond_fragments"} entuland: yes, I get the point, I'll try to repro it whosit: so, book says: first will match only in the left slot of the grid, and second recipie you can move around the grid entuland: I can confirm that no matter the emtpy strings, 5.4.1 allows for moving the items around the crafting grid as if they weren't there entuland: can't tell if it's a bug or if it's an intended change of behavior and the book hasn't been updated to match the change entuland: I'm no expert in the core engine code but my understanding is that the way recipes are checked hasn't changed in a few years, I'm afraid you'll need to get the attention of more knowledgeable people around whosit: should I ask about this in #minetest-dev? entuland: I think it fits there, yes whosit: ok, thank you entuland: yw Bombo: anyone got the draconis mod? there is a book called 'Bestiary' but i can't read it, can't place it anywhere wwar: @ElCeejus, Synthwave Warlord ^ AntumDeluge: Bombo, on ContentDB it says "Most other info you may need to know is detailed in the Bestiary". But I don't know how to use it either. Maybe its a work-in-progress. AntumDeluge: There is a bug in the code. I'm looking at it now. AntumDeluge: Oh, I think it might not be a bug... AntumDeluge: It has something to do with the "draconis:lectern" node. It looks like you have to use it to fill out the bestiary. appguru: @ElCeejus, Synthwave Warlord Bombo: AntumDeluge: hm i tried it, i put the bestiary in the lectern, looks good, but still no text Bombo: hm there are two slots in the lectern AntumDeluge: Bombo, the other slot is for "draconis:manuscript". But I still don't know how it works. Bombo: AntumDeluge: yes i saw that too, and i put the manuscript there, nothing happens MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix swapped vertex colors on GLES2 1369c70dd https://git.io/JsJfe (152021-05-11T19:15:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Attachments: Proper data cleanup in callbacks (#2865) 1371ea0c6 https://git.io/JsJfv (152021-05-11T19:15:47Z) AntumDeluge: I have a problem with formspec security. I have created a shops mod ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=26645 ). The problem is that the formspec is associated with node meta. So if a second player interacts with the formspec, it affects the transaction of the first player. I'm using node meta to set formspec because I need the "allow_metadata_inventory_put" functionality.... AntumDeluge: I've thought about trying to suppress showing a formspec if it is already in use by another player, but I'm not sure if that is possible with using node meta data... AntumDeluge: I also came across the ActiveFormspecs mod ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19303 ), which looks like it could be a solution if it does what I think it does... AntumDeluge: But I wanted to know if someone knows something I don't about securing formspecs. AntumDeluge: If I can avoid depending on another mod, I'd probably rather do that. AntumDeluge: Is there a way to retrieve a formspec instance & store it an a variable/table? sfan5: formspecs do not have instances sfan5: you use a node's inventory in a formspec completely disconnected to the node sfan5: though this would still mean multiple players can't put items at the same time AntumDeluge: Isn't there a Lua or C++ object that is created when a formspec is shown? sfan5: Lua certainly not, C++ probably; but it's all on the client AntumDeluge: So, no wait to retrieve & manipulate that. AntumDeluge: *way sfan5: if you want to control what gets shown to who use minetest.show_formspec() sfan5: (obviously) AntumDeluge: Yes, but as I understand it, I won't be able to retrieve the "allow_metadata_inventory_put" callback. AntumDeluge: Or am I mistaken about that? sfan5: the callback happens on the node sfan5: you can tell the formspec to show the node inventory and it'll function like usual AntumDeluge: Oh, I see. Thanks sfan5. I'll explore that. AntumDeluge: "though this would still mean multiple players can't put items at the same time" Actually, I don't think that will be a problem for me as the inventory itself doesn't actually hold anything. It is simply used to drag items onto to invoke the "allow_metadata_inventory_put" callback. AntumDeluge: However, I do store a value in the nodes metadata that is important. But that should be easy to get around by using a key with the player's name. AntumDeluge: Does it make a difference whether "meta:get_inventory():set_size()" is called in "on_construct" or "after_place_node"? AntumDeluge: Bombo, I got a response about the bestiary: https://github.com/ElCeejo/draconis/issues/9 beanzilla: Hi all, I would like to know how to do a goto within my mod. (I keep getting a `'=' expected near 'skip'`, My paste is https://pastebin.com/y4SvDMbY) entuland: your code seems malformed to begin with Jonathon: Don't use goto unless you know everyone that uses your mod will use luajit entuland: you were missing a doublequote before the steel definition entuland: and yes, please try and avoid that goto, you don't need it there for sure entuland: this is a better spot to post your code for the future as well: https://ideone.com/w4lg6E entuland: as you can run it there and verify if it's okay (assuming it doesn't contain any call to minetest-specific stuff or the alike) beanzilla: So I guess really to not use the goto I'd need too do ... https://ideone.com/P8qlfz entuland: yeah that may work, or use the inequality operator, really matter of tastes there likely beanzilla: Anyway, thank you Jonathon and entuland for the help. entuland: yw AntumDeluge: Is there no way to catch "put" & "take" events in the player inventory? AntumDeluge: Oh, maybe I don't need to do that. I misunderstood something sfan5 said. entuland: uhm... isn't that just a formspec like any other which you can intercept with on_player_receive_fields? GreenXenith: Put/take doesnt seem to be a field AntumDeluge: on_player_recieve_fields works for buttons & other fields. But not for put/take for "list". entuland: oh okay GreenXenith: Seems like an oversight AntumDeluge: I think I actually want a "detached" inventory, not "player". But I think I still end up with the same problem. GreenXenith: Ah, minetest.register_on_player_inventory_action AntumDeluge: Oh, nice. Thank you GreenXenith. entuland: that sounds promising indeed by the name :P GreenXenith: Knew there had to be something :] GreenXenith: No idea if it will work for detached inventories entuland: there always is a way (tm) entuland: sometimes it involves threatening with a large mallet, but hey GreenXenith: Detached inventories actually have their own callbacks GreenXenith: defined when registering them AntumDeluge: I'm guessing detached is what I want to use, as sfan5 said. Swift110-mobile: Hey a Swift110-mobile: Hey all erlehmann: why are there no discussions about cheating in minetest forums erlehmann: i want to improve anticheat erlehmann: but i was told discussing cheating is banned? erlehmann: in particular, i want to forbid flying erlehmann: sfan5 what do you think of discussing ways how to cheat and how to react to that erlehmann: i only found it on issue tracker somehow erlehmann: funniest thing i found was a suggestion to generate ores only at surface rubenwardy: Discussing cheating is fine, promoting ready made tools isn't erlehmann: to frustrate xray hackers rubenwardy: I don't necessarily agree with this rule erlehmann: lol so that is why there are no results for "dragonfire" or "waspsaliva" on the forums erlehmann: i mean no useful results rubenwardy: I think it's not very useful as anyone who wants to cheat will just Google it anyway erlehmann: yeah i think too erlehmann: or just read the source erlehmann: i mean erlehmann: bool checkPrivilege(const std::string &priv) const erlehmann: - { return (m_privileges.count(priv) != 0); } erlehmann: + { erlehmann: + return true; erlehmann: + // (m_privileges.count(priv) != 0); erlehmann: + } erlehmann: :D erlehmann: that is kinda easy to work out erlehmann: but the question is how to deal with it erlehmann: and that is complex erlehmann: rubenwardy i recently found a bug where i could drop a specific item and cheat client waspsaliva would crash, that was funny erlehmann: i mean i reported it and it was fixed rubenwardy: Hack clients are often also hacky Danil_2461: 😆 erlehmann: rubenwardy so if i post that example, do you think i would be banned from the forums? whosit: is having "map saving" 100-200ms long every 5 seconds considered normal? entuland: I guess you could change those settings, but somewhere you have to store the map changes not to lose them if something goes south entuland: the point is whether it's freezes the game or not, regardless of how much the save takes entuland: s/it's/it whosit: why it's not async from the game loop? entuland: that I don't know whosit: the 100-200ms is for server running postgres backend whosit: and it does the timestep lag / freeze thing erlehmann: rubenwardy to whom can i talk about improving anticheat? there is no way i can discuss anticheat without explaining cheats erlehmann: rubenwardy if i can't do it on the forums, i can only … talk to the authors of cheat clients, which i am doing lol erlehmann: they have little interest in better anticheat though erlehmann: though i have erlehmann: bc anticheat is stupid enough to break trampolins and mesecon piston teleport rubenwardy: You're not going to get banned without warning rubenwardy: sfan and krock are probably the people to talk to erlehmann: ok thx erlehmann: rubenwardy i am pretty sure if i link to dragonfire or waspsaliva code i risk a ban erlehmann: or even show a snippet as the one above erlehmann: rationale: the rules say intentions do not count erlehmann: btw, "beware the dark" is a pretty funny way to discourage nocip and flying erlehmann: (bc ppl who do that also have fullbright) erlehmann: (and bc the sky is dark) AntumDeluge: I don't see an option to adjust the label on an image button ( http://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/formspec/#image_buttonxywhtexture-namenamelabel ). Is this not possible? AntumDeluge: I mean obviously I can just leave the image label empty & add another label over it. Was just curious if it were possible to do it from the image_button options. entuland: yep, I don't think you have control over it AntumDeluge: k, thanks. entuland: yw entuland: dang I should avoid posting from discord in this channel sfan5: why entuland: because ping & startle myself :P entuland: it's like an I/O conflict, I don't expect to get the ping immediately after I send a message :P erlehmann: sfan5 hi. if i want to discuss how cheat clients work and possible anticheat improvements on a more persistent platform than here, where to do it? i do not want to get banned on minetest forums. erlehmann: sfan5 i ask you because you are definitely not a cheat client advocate GreenXenith: The bridge is supposed to prevent self-pinging, but I wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt work entuland: oh the ping happened on the HexChat client entuland: not on Discord GreenXenith: I know erlehmann: entuland highlight? entuland: yes GreenXenith: Its supposed to add a special invisible character to the nick on the IRC side to prevent self-pinging entuland: can't tell, the message above is marked as if someone else sent a message pinging me sfan5: erlehmann: idk I guess github? entuland: the "entuland" word above is also treated exactly as my handle, I can right click it, get a context menu and so forth erlehmann: sfan5 yeah ok then not i guess. github hellbanned me once accidentally, i may have made too many commits or something. erlehmann: not using it except if i get paid erlehmann: sfan5 can you explain the history behind the "no talking about cheats" thing though? erlehmann: it sounds incredibly weird erlehmann: like something from a steam forum erlehmann: or 1999 boomer shooter enthusiasts erlehmann: the minecraft community talks about cheats all the time, so i wonder, is it to keep those ppl away? sfan5: I wouldn't know what to say about the history spontanously erlehmann: ah i thought maybe there was some big bad event or something erlehmann: i heard that on clamity pistons were once made unknown by an admin to prevent duping erlehmann: but unknown items can be stacked higher than known items erlehmann: so yeah, that backfired spectacularly erlehmann: when they were made known sfan5: anyway within limits code-focused cheating discussion should also be fine on the forums erlehmann: people keep saying that but there exist no discussions like that erlehmann: so i guess whoever tried that ate a ban erlehmann: meanwhile, can anyone make sense of this commit? https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/commit/8f30e223e2d45c4ead2237196c13446d6b9cb1e3 erlehmann: i have the cursed task of backporting features with commit messages like "I hate reverting something xD" entuland: erlehmann: well, the only change in that seems to be replacing "ipairs" with "pairs" entuland: which may make sense if the result of connected_players() changed format entuland: as ipairs would ignore any non-numeric key entuland: connected_players() or any other source of data there erlehmann: entuland well, i can see that, but i don't know why because the commit message is crap entuland: oh that I can't tell erlehmann: i thought maybe someone knew entuland: maybe someone else replaced pairs with ipairs with an earlier commit and they had to fix the "bad idea"? erlehmann: i was told that ipairs is faster erlehmann: yeah but also this is on a feature branch that kay27 made for nether portals in mineclone2. it does not belong there. erlehmann: i keep finding unrelated small fixes with questionable commit messages on feature branches and i hate it erlehmann: bc then the feature branch depends on that thing entuland: I guess the best way to know is to ask the committer :P entuland: also, I may be wrong and that could be a bad fix - maybe all of those cases really only use numeric keys and maybe ipairs is really faster and maybe there was really no need to change those entuland: I also found this hit searching for which one is really faster: https://devforum.roblox.com/t/speed-comparison-ipairs-vs-pairs-vs-numerical-loop-benchmark/537134 entuland: Quote: "I recently learnt that ipairs is only this fast with our custom Lua interpreter, Luau; in Vanilla Lua it is slower than pairs." Jonathon: Ipairs is slower than pairs, regular loop is fastest GreenXenith: ipairs is faster than pairs GreenXenith: At least, I think. Might only be in JIT Jonathon: https://medium.com/@sleitnick/battle-of-the-loops-c001bcb4961c Benrob0329: I'd be curious to see how newer versions of Lua (specifically, 5.4) compare entuland: can't tell what they're benchmarking exactly but here is something in general: https://www.reddit.com/r/lua/comments/j9x33f/arewefastyet_benchmark_suite_applied_to_different/ Jonathon: pokes @exe_/irus for tests he said that he would provide exe_virus: Sorry, I only got through basic two client testing, still have to run my 5-10 client test here in a bit. Sadly I only get 30 minutes of free time a day during the week Jonathon: tis fine Bombo: helo Bombo: i found the language setting in minetest 5.4.0, set it from nothing (english) to de (german) restarted it, but it still is englsh Bombo: are the locales not included in the android version? Bombo: did i mention amdroid? android ;) sfan5: android currently does not come with language support Bombo: no 5.4.1 version either Bombo: ok sfan5 Bombo: probably nothing changed for android in the .1 i guess sfan5: even if you had 5.4.1 it still wouldn't work, yea Bombo: no i mean genera 0 and enable verbose output it'll print the profiler sfan5: there should be a "Server: map saving (sum)" entry which tells you how long map saving took whosit: I did another thing: whosit: moved players.sqlite file to ramfs directory and symlinked it, and spike was gone whosit: "map saving" time will show how long it took to rewrite players.sqlite? sfan5: map saving *and* player data saving whosit: ok... I will try to measure it that way then. Still not sure how to better get rid of it :) entuland: this seems important if it made a difference: "moved players.sqlite file to ramfs directory and symlinked it, and spike was gone" whosit: and I see same spike on a server that's using postgres backend and has no players.sqlite entuland: can't tell about postgres, but if the problem disappeared by changing the file location and symlinking it, since it should be transparent to minetest, that seems to point at something else interfering with that IO whosit: it's not just location though, I have moved file to a memory filesystem - so no slow IO when writing it whosit: (linux ramfs) entuland: that's the thing, even writing the entire file at once every time the amount of data is risible and doesn't justify the entire gameserver freezing sfan5: is the disk a HDD? whosit: on my test machine, yes, on the postgres backed one - idk whosit: lag seems about the same on both whosit: I notice this periodical spike only with xp_redo enabled, not other mods - that's the strangest thing. But it may be explainable by constant metadata change... entuland: I would try and narrow down that thing by doing a small mod that only touches the meta at that same interval entuland: it may as well be something done by hooks.lua entuland: which is the line run right after touching the meta entuland: that hook goes on to run all the functions hooked by register_hook whosit: tried commenting it out - makes no difference entuland: good entuland: commenting the meta touch out gets rid of the issue I guess? whosit: yes, set_int() removes the lag spike whosit: *commenting it out entuland: ok entuland: maybe the profiler data will give more clues whosit: https://pastebin.com/TZn8Q1k8 <- map saving from debug.txt sfan5: writing some stuff to disk certainly shouldn't take 500ms sfan5: you might also want to look at this setting https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/stable-5/minetest.conf.example#L1512-L1514 whosit: setting sqlite_synchronous = 0 (OFF) gets rid of lag spike (map saving is up to 8ms with 6 clients) sfan5: hope you read the warning about corruption in the docs whosit: yes. whosit: setting it to 1 (NORMAL) gives same 5-second-period ~500ms spikes whosit: default is 2 I assume... so normal option works same as full sync entuland: crabs... to times that my desktop rebooted without any error or reason whatsoever today entuland: s/to/two whosit: :( never happened before? whosit: so, what should I do? make a minimal mod to reproduce the spike? entuland: No idea sorry, out of power to even try googling entuland: At least seems like it was power grid hiccups here and not my PC going nuts entuland: The fact that sqlite misbehaves in one mode on the normal disk, stops misbehaving changing that mode, and stops also going to ramfs, the issue could be more tied to the FS / sqlite manager / driver or whatever than being on minetest itself entuland: Although the fact that the issue happens on postgres as well would not match (unless for some reason the culprit affects posgres as well somehow) Jordach: you have a dead sector on disk whosit: 1. the spike issue happened on another machine 2. I re-created server from scratch using /mods list, and issue appeared on my local machine too whosit: only common thing - xp_redo mod whosit: server is using completely different config, I don't even have direct access to it to see how postgres is set up, etc. whosit: but we did make sure that spike issue disappears from server too, when xp_redo is disabled whosit: real server should have bigger player db, but if it's using postgres and values change only for ~10 test clients, that still does not make sense AntumDeluge: The API shows me how to unregister items (craftitem & node), but I don't see any method for unregistering ores. Can it be done? Or, is it necessary to unregister ores if I am replacing an ore-bearing node? calcul0n_: AntumDeluge, ores are just nodes like others, i guess you do it the same way AntumDeluge: calcul0n_, interesting. I called "core.unregister_item(item_name)", but I find that it is still stored in "core.registered_ores". calcul0n_: ho, i forgot about register_ore(), i don't know what happens if you unregister the corresponding node then AntumDeluge: Maybe I just need to do "core.registered_ores.ore_hash = nil". Or maybe I just leave it alone as maybe it isn't necessary to unregister ores. calcul0n_: i'd try the second first but that's a shot in the dark :) wsor4035: no, not at all Eman108: Helllooooo wsor4035: no, we cant hear you at all Jonathon: not in the slightest Eman108: sorry Eman108: first time using irc AntumDeluge: farming_plus seems to be the offending mod ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2787 ). I deleted it & wheat & cotton started to grow (but only after I replaced the seeds on wet soil nodes). AntumDeluge: Seeds that were not picked up & put back down after removing did not grow. Jonathon: well, its your own fault for using a ancient mod and expecting it to work proprly AntumDeluge: Dangit. I was hoping someone else would want to take the blame. Jonathon: not like if you flip to the last page of the forum link you provided does it say expertmm: Farming Redo has plus compatibility and is a fully working replacement for default farming with more crops and food items included: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9019 AntumDeluge: Ooooh! Thanks. Eman108: has anyone used the portal gun mod Eman108: https://content.minetest.net/packages/AiTechEye/portalgun/ Jonathon: nope Eman108: oh Eman108: oh Eman108: for some reason it keeps on crashing and giving me a error AntumDeluge: What is the error? I have found that even some mods on ContentDB are unstable. Eman108: I don't remember AntumDeluge: I'll see if it works for me. Eman108: thx AntumDeluge: It crashed when I used the gun. Eman108: yeah AntumDeluge: This is the line that is causing the problem: https://github.com/AiTechEye/portalgun/blob/master/init.lua#L61 AntumDeluge: Err, where the problem occurs. Eman108: hmm AntumDeluge: Argument 2 is supposed to be a number, but a table is being passed. Eman108: maybe the code is outdated? Eman108: sorry mod AntumDeluge: Last update was in June 2020. The method is supposed to be "object:punch(puncher, time_from_last_punch, tool_capabilities, direction)". I notice they have 'nil' as the last argument. Perhaps that should be the second argument. Same problem is repeated in line 70. Eman108: it seems that someone else has had this problem to Eman108: https://github.com/AiTechEye/portalgun/issues/4 AntumDeluge: Changing the line to "portalgun_portal[name].portal1:punch(portalgun_portal[name].portal1, nil, {full_punch_interval=1.0,damage_groups={fleshy=9000}}, nil)" (and the same for line 70 with "portal2") prevents the crash. But I don't know if that is the right fix because I don't know how the gun works. AntumDeluge: That mod is very buggy. Yes, probably outdated code. AntumDeluge: I got it to work, by changing those lines & similar lines in 'gravityuse.lua'. AntumDeluge: Here are the changes I made to get it to work: https://github.com/AiTechEye/portalgun/issues/4#issuecomment-834914800 Nav|C: I ran this cmake command $ cmake . -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=/home/navic/user-shit/minetest_irrlicht/include/ -DRUN_IN_PLACE=false -DBUILD_SERVER=true Nav|C: then I ran the make command Nav|C: I get this error Nav|C: [ 88%] Building CXX object src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/version.cpp.o Nav|C: make[2]: *** No rule to make target '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libIrrlicht.so', needed by 'bin/minetest'. Stop. Nav|C: make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs.... Nav|C: [ 88%] Building CXX object src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/voxelalgorithms.cpp.o Nav|C: make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/Makefile2:532: src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/all] Error 2 Nav|C: make: *** [Makefile:152: all] Error 2 sfan5: Nav|C: you need to set IRRLICHT_LIBRARY too Nav|C: to what? sfan5: /home/navic/user-shit/minetest_irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so sfan5: or similar sfan5: ok wait, you want to build the client right? Nav|C: sfan5: yes I want client AND server sfan5: then yes you do need to specify the irrlicht lib too Nav|C: yay build MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ElCeejo -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Check for attachments before attaching player to bed (#2862) 138158926 https://git.io/J3QJ9 (152021-05-08T09:30:57Z) imi: hi, the last known working version forr irrlicht for me was "imefix1" (and not imefix2) what happened since than? can I upgrade to origin/master now? sfan5: ye sfan5: s MinetestBot: 02[git] 04tenplus1 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Use group for mushroom spread ABM (#2863) 13642fde4 https://git.io/J3Q6g (152021-05-08T12:42:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Reclassify some items 131c78666 https://git.io/J3Q6a (152021-05-08T12:42:16Z) imi: ok thanks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix overlays for 2D-drawn items 132443f1e https://git.io/J37HW (152021-05-08T17:44:43Z) swift110: how are you Verticen and specing Verticen: not bad. swift110: good to hear Aris: oh, that Aris: that's a fun bug Aris: lava won't flow north or east if there's flowing water a block out, I guess it decides that it's not worth it Aris: but it will still flow south or west erlehmann: engine-wise, why i anticheat so bad at its job? erlehmann: like it does not prevent flying erlehmann: but it does prevent people using trampoline from high up erlehmann: because once they bounce up they exceed the speed limit erlehmann: is there some technical constraint? specing: erlehmann: because the engine has a speed anticheat, but not a fly one erlehmann: specing ok but speed anticheat is *really* bad erlehmann: like even very simple piston machines trigger it specing: really? Never noticed erlehmann: or, as i said, bouncing on a trampolining blck erlehmann: like go up a few hundred nodes, fall on, say a mineclone2 slime block (80% bouncy) erlehmann: on your way up the anticheat will kick in and ruin it erlehmann: specing well players can get pushed by pistons, which is basically instantaneously. time it right and you exceed the speed limit. erlehmann: specing the problem is anticheat having no idea if it is a legitimate game mechanic that lead to this erlehmann: i would kinda think that if pistons can push players its a bit stupid to then say it was too fast erlehmann: after all the piston must have been setup before erlehmann: and the trampoline thing is just … unfunny erlehmann: i know of a server where they disabled anticheat because of how horribly bad it affects nearly everything that changes players speed erlehmann: specing ever tried making a player TNT cannon? if you can survice, you go up really high :D erlehmann: survive specing: tbh I don't consider fly/speed/noclip cheating, because I don't consider Minetest a competitive game erlehmann: specing well it would be in, say, multiplayer puzzles erlehmann: or parkour erlehmann: but you mostly ruin your own fun specing: yes, so why have anticheat at all. It's their own fun that "cheaters" are ruining, after all erlehmann: specing what would you consider cheating? erlehmann: well i would like for people to not be able to fill my base with tnt from the other side of the map specing: I didn't think a lot about what is cheating and what is not erlehmann: hmm erlehmann: are dupes cheating erlehmann: is it cheating to bookban someone specing: area protection is already enforced server side and works well enough to prevent most n00bs from filling your base with tnt erlehmann: honestly i think area protection sucks erlehmann: it makes it impossible to have a commons specing: a commons? specing: area protection is a mod, so you can easily fix it erlehmann: an area that belongs to everyone specing: wouldn't that be an unprotected area? erlehmann: also it makes it really hard to place blocks with area protection erlehmann: i mean it is possible erlehmann: but annoying erlehmann: so on catlandia there was once a player who lured ppl to their base erlehmann: for trades erlehmann: to kill them specing: dupes are cheating when there is an economy, if you participate in this economy with dupes erlehmann: so what i did was /sethome there erlehmann: and you know, bone blocks still spawn in protected areas specing: but probably not always, but when you are underpricing others erlehmann: so i haunted the place specing: What is a bookban? erlehmann: throwing items (usually books) at people that makes their client crash or timeout erlehmann: it is a thing in minecraft specing: That's an engine issue, then erlehmann: on 2b2t a group called "the book club" set up machines that threw books at people erlehmann: and banned like 400 people erlehmann: ofc the admin also banned the book club members shortly afterwards lol specing: Does this happen in Minetest? erlehmann: specing i am pretty sure it is possible if you manage to mess with item meta too much erlehmann: i was able to generate an enchanted fishing rod with like 184kb of metadata specing: cool erlehmann: for comparison, enchanted tools that make clients lag have like 21kb of metadata specing: iirc I did mess somewhat with writing loooong books with CSMs, but not sure if anything came out of it erlehmann: oohooo i am interested in that erlehmann: how to write book with csm erlehmann: the fact that an enchanted tool needs to save the dig speeds for each node or group means that … erlehmann: like for efficiency enchant erlehmann: somehow the code bloats the metadata of the fishing rod with like EVERYTHING erlehmann: if you manage to get efficiency III on it erlehmann: so nowadays the metadata gets reduced once you dig a block with it specing: So it's a badly written mod erlehmann: like enchanted pickaxes go from 21kb to 2kb erlehmann: but erlehmann: you can't dig stuff with a fishing rod erlehmann: so it can never be fixed once it exists erlehmann: specing i would argue it is a bad mod AND an engine issue specing: I can't find any code on book writing, so I guess I just conceptualised doing it specing: but I can interact with formspecs just fine in other code, so *shrug* erlehmann: specing i want books with unicode actually erlehmann: specing but my compose key does not work in minetest erlehmann: specing how to unicode book specing: copy from outside Aris: hmm, does ice turn flowing lava into stone? specing: It's really cold! specing: the ice should probably turn to water, though Aris: yea Aris: I'm trying to find solution to some of the lava's problems flowing specing: also make the water evaporate :P AntumDeluge: Any clue when 5.4.1 when be available in Android app store? AntumDeluge: I'm trying to update the motorcycle mod to use `get_look_horizontal` instead of the deprecated `get_look_yaw` ( https://github.com/Extex101/motorbike/blob/9527d56/functions.lua#L242 ). But changing the method breaks control. AntumDeluge: The documentation says that `get_look_horizontal` is "Angle is counter-clockwise from the +z direction." & `get_look_yaw` is "Angle is counter-clockwise from the +x direction." Trying to wrap my brain around this, but math is not my forte. AntumDeluge: Been looking at some other mods & they straight changed the method without any other modifications. AntumDeluge: Oh, maybe it's because I didn't also change `set_look_yaw` to `set_look_horizontal` AntumDeluge: Nope, still broken. AntumDeluge: Wow, I fixed it through trial & error. I don't understand why it works, but it does. The solution was in line 247 ( https://github.com/Extex101/motorbike/blob/9527d56/functions.lua#L247 ), changing "local rrot = driverlook - rot_steer" to "local rrot = driverlook". AntumDeluge: Could somebody help me understand how growing farming:seed_wheat & farming:seed_cotton works? I thought I had to place the seeds on wet soil, like veggies & fruits. But they never grew. So I looked at the source code, & it seems they are supposed to be placed on grassy areas. But it won't let me place them. AntumDeluge: I have farming_plus installed, & I'm wondering if that is affecting it. calcul0n: AntumDeluge, they must be placed on wet soil, have water nearby and enough light calcul0n: not sure about farming_plus but iirc it doesn't change anything about that AntumDeluge: Yes, that is what I had them placed on, we soil in open air where they get light. calcul0n: also growing it's pretty slow, maybe just be patient :) AntumDeluge: It's been a couple weeks. AntumDeluge: https://i.postimg.cc/KFgwS3qj/screenshot-20210507-075404.png calcul0n: aw calcul0n: so there's something wrong indeed calcul0n: could be something broken with an update, you could try to remove all this and plant again AntumDeluge: I'm using farming from minetest_game v5.4.1. I haven't tried in vanilla (vanilla <- no other mods than minetes_game?). So I think I will do that. If it works there, then another mod I have installed must be interfering. calcul0n: yes, i suspect something like this too AntumDeluge: Yep, they are growing in vanilla. Only took a couple minutes for them to start sprouting. AntumDeluge: Is it normal that my server ignores the "load_mod_" lines in world.mt? Jonathon: are your mods in worldmods? Jonathon: if so, yes, it ignores world.mt AntumDeluge: No, they are game mods. Jonathon: same thing AntumDeluge: Okay. Makes sense. AntumDeluge: Is it possible to temporarily disable a worldmod? Or do I have to remove it? Jonathon: no, yes AntumDeluge: Okay. thanks. Jonathon: and re game mods, you can just make a empty init.lua in same dir as a game mod to override it (now this may break stuff in the game and piss the game author when you complain) Jonathon: *same dir name in your /mods or /worldmods AntumDeluge: /mods ? Jonathon: or worldmods, yeah AntumDeluge: Okay. Eman108: hey Eman108: hey Eman108: Can any one hear me Jonathon: thats also because there mimicing a game that does the same Jonathon: i would argue if your doing your own game, keep disabilities in mind, however there comes a point at which you dont change design for everyone for the 1 percent, make accommodations for them sure, but that can be done through a setting for the game and/or texture pack erlehmann: Jonathon design decisions like "every icon of a category with many items (like dyes) should have a distinct outline" do not just benefit people who have a clinical disability, they also help able-bodied people who run software on a device with a bad screen or in direct sunlight making stuff harder to recognize erlehmann: or people who run redshift or whatever Jonathon: i didnt name a specific example, your projecting your example onto what i said erlehmann: sorry the word "clinical" does not fit and i am very sleepy and should stop typing complicated sentences Jonathon: hmmm, rereading what i said could appear i was talking about your example, however i was talking in a general sense erlehmann: ok well i can say it in more abstract terms, i have heard “you dont change design for everyone for the 1 percent” mostly from people who don't care about accessability and compatibility Jonathon: did you not read the end of my statement? but that can be done through a setting for the game and/or texture pack erlehmann: and by "don't care" i mean basically everyone i have heard arguing that way always argues for the option that represents the least amount of effort, but the numbers don't mean anything erlehmann: well, accessability needs to be default erlehmann: otherwise no one will use it erlehmann: because they may not even find it erlehmann: like websites erlehmann: everyone who makes font smaller than browser default but provides a way to scale it up is kinda saying "my æsthetic sensibilities are more important than that some person with bad eyesight can read the page" erlehmann: and then adds the "bigger text size" button as a cop-out erlehmann: Jonathon i do not think i can explain it well. i suggest reading the WCAG for guidelines on how to implement accessability features by default without creating undue burden for developers. AntumDeluge: Aris, note sure if this was mentioned, but there is bright_night mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20078 AntumDeluge: Is there a way to capture a player falling/landing on node event? I haven't found anything in the docs. AntumDeluge: I want to play a sound when my trampoline is bounced on. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: fix: extractZipFile is not part of Client but more generic. 13225d454 https://git.io/J3XJp (152021-05-06T14:01:52Z) freshreplicant[m: There's a bouncy bed mod that makes a bouncing sound, not sure how it works though. twoelk: duh, is this working again? twoelk: seems so MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build for newer versions of GCC (#11246) 137c2826c https://git.io/J3XNk (152021-05-06T17:24:30Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve liquid documentation (#11158) 131bb8449 https://git.io/J3XNI (152021-05-06T17:24:11Z) Pexin: AntumDeluge: re trampoline sound: do you have a version of trampolines that work properly with MT ver > 5.2? something changed in 5.3+ and I "started" looking into it, but I'm not ready to touch the internal collision code. AntumDeluge: freshreplicant[m, thanks I will look at that. AntumDeluge: Pexin, I forked Jeija's Jumping mod ( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17691 ). I don't remember if it was broken, but I recently updated it & am using it with 5.4. AntumDeluge: Looked at the bounce beds mod. It actually does the same thing that my trampolines do. They just use the "sounds.footstep" attribute, which only works if the ABM & the moment the player touches the tramp are in sync. AntumDeluge: *bouncy beds swift110: hey Verticen Verticen: yo Jonathon: MisterE, do note that doesnt show up as well on irc as it does here. https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-05-04#i_5817585 Emerald2: Wow that shows up weird on IRC. Jonathon: depends on your irc client Emerald2: The text is kinda between the lines of where it normally is. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yes, well, I think IRC users are used to things showing up kinda wierd 😛 I kinda expect it when I use IRC But yeah, IG I should have posted the text-only version Swift110-mobile: Oh deatline: Hey all deatline: i need help with cocoa Emerald2: What's the problem? deatline: the cocoa its only green deatline: i have put on the jungletree Emerald2: Remind me which mod that's in? deatline: what need cocoa Emerald2: If I remember right, farming redo. Emerald2: I'm having a quick look at the code to see if it needs light or whatever. deatline: ok Emerald2: Is it the default game jungletree you placed it on? I used to just place some trunks by my farm and plant cocoa on it and it was fine. Danil_2461: hello people deatline: yes, too, but no change, only green Emerald2: It looks to me like it just needs the jungle tree logs to grow. Hopefully somebody else can be more helpful. deatline: ok, thank you, i will wait hisforeverkid: hi I'd like to know where is the Mod folder in Ubuntu, my /home/.minetest dose not have a Mod folder calcul0n: you can create it there or it might be in /usr/share/games/minetest calcul0n: (if you installed it from a package) hisforeverkid: ok thanks calcu10n Danil_2461: install a mod, then itll create one MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add basic client-server test to CI 13ba40b39 https://git.io/J36v2 (152021-05-05T20:49:44Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Use Irrlicht functions to query npot texture support 1308f1a7f https://git.io/J36vV (152021-05-05T20:49:44Z) Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/839608484516331530/Screenshot_20210506-000348.png Danil_2461: when I try to launch any game, it gives this and freezes Danil_2461: ------------- Separator ------------- 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]: Main menu error: Runtime error from mod '' in callback handleMainMenuButtons(): /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/mainmenu/tab_local.lua:232: attempt to index local 'game' (a nil value) 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]: /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/mainmenu/tab_local.lua:232: in function MTDiscord: 'handle_buttons' 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]: /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/fstk/ui.lua:142: in function 'handle_buttons' 2021-05-06 00:05:15: ERROR[Main]: /storage/emulated/0/Minetest/builtin/fstk/ui.lua:186: in function Warr1024: make sure your engine build and builtin versions match Danil_2461: wh? erlehmann: is there a way to make the night lighter so that it's slightly easier to see? erlehmann: Aris you can edit src/nodedef.cpp and replace "light_source = 0" with "light_source = 7" erlehmann: Aris then rebuild – that will give you a client that has halfbright blocks erlehmann: i think there is no way to detect it server side so you don't have to worry about ppl banning you for cheating bc you have eyesight issues Warr1024: Or you could just hack up node defs in lua so you don't have to recompile the engine. erlehmann: yes, you can install dragonfire client or waspsaliva if you want to erlehmann: but they do a lot of other stuff erlehmann: that will get you banned Warr1024: If you are trying to correct for eyesight issues, gamma can be raised all the way to 3, which basically makes everything fullbright if it's not pure black anyway. erlehmann: uh, i did not think of that, it sounds gnarly erlehmann: funniest thing i found in waspsalive is the idle miner erlehmann: like you walk and it just mines everything it can reach directly below you erlehmann: it basically means you *have* to walk erlehmann: funny minigame erlehmann: i bet i am misusing that feature erlehmann: i mean i don't regularly use waspsaliva erlehmann: Warr1024 would gamma correction affect the interface? erlehmann: i have problems with low contrast erlehmann: like grey on gray Warr1024: I don't recall it doing so erlehmann: other people can for example see the outlines of a room where the walls are lined with black concrete. Warr1024: You should also invest in a texture pack, could help. erlehmann: i can not, easily erlehmann: unless i make a screenshot and up the contrast erlehmann: or sometimes the screenshot gamma is slightly off on another machine erlehmann: then i can see it Warr1024: Do you just have trouble with low brightness stuff, or is it like an inability to distinguish nearby shades or something? erlehmann: i think the latter erlehmann: i need higher contrast than other people my age erlehmann: also i *can* see some stuff that other people have no problem with, but it is very straining erlehmann: it is only light erlehmann: but i notice it whenever some hipster makes a website with gray on grey text Warr1024: Interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind when I evaluate my stuff for accessibility. I already watch out for color blindness and blurry vision accessibility... erlehmann: or in the case of looking at a corner of black concrete in minetest erlehmann: like i can't really see where the corner is erlehmann: i mean ofc that depends on the lighting erlehmann: which brings us to why i had a halfbright suggestion Warr1024: How does that even work? Is there a name for the condition that I could look up? erlehmann: Warr1024 WCAG 2.0 has a formula for contrast, do you know that? erlehmann: i think everyone gets it when they get older actually erlehmann: i have so far only seen people under 40 make designs that are hard to read honestly Warr1024: MT's "gamma" formulas, be warned, have never really been right... erlehmann: but i am, actually, under 40 erlehmann: Warr1024 i look up the WCAG stuff, pls wait erlehmann: Warr1024 https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html Warr1024: We need an MTCAG erlehmann: Warr1024 what kind of accessability things do you do? for websites, there is a WCAG 2.0 contrast checker erlehmann: it can figure out if your website has text that does not conform to the 4,5:1 or 3:1 contrast things erlehmann: and mark it with a red outline Warr1024: Contrast ratios tend to be disolay-dependent, and even moreso for MT, where we have to work with things like android phones where people want the brightness way low to preserve battery... erlehmann: https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast7.html Warr1024: Tbh mostly what I've done is (1) keep the HUD uncluttered so it can be scaled larger, and (2) test the game with all color desaturated (pure grayscale) to make sure it's usable for colorblind. erlehmann: well the thing is because they are so display dependent you have to err on the side of caution erlehmann: some peole do not even know they are colorblind erlehmann: years ago i showed a guy an ishihara plate erlehmann: and well erlehmann: i think he was over 30 erlehmann: and only on that day noticed that he may have a color vision issue apparently erlehmann: like you know the things where you see different numbers Warr1024: That's kinda surprising, but then, I have a hard time remembering what it was like not expressing colors as hex values, so... erlehmann: yeah i also was like "how can you get through life for so long" erlehmann: but i mean 5% of men and 0,5% of women have some color vision issues i read erlehmann: so it must be pretty common erlehmann: like mostly minor probably erlehmann: > test the game with all color desaturated (pure grayscale) to make sure it's usable for colorblind erlehmann: that sounds nice, but what kind of desaturation function do you use? Warr1024: Pure grayscale is the overkill approach, should cover every kind of color blindness. I just use imagemagick I think. erlehmann: i mean you have to approximate the kind of desaturation that the different kinds of colorblindness give, not just set everything to gray as far as i get it erlehmann: when i tried this to finde the minimal ANSI palette that is reasonably colorblind safe i came up with yellow, cyan, purple, white, black erlehmann: like terminal 16 colors ANSI i mean erlehmann: i now tend to use cyan instead of green and yellow instead of red Warr1024: It doesn't matter much which function because you also can't rely on contextual cues. Someone could be buried in a pit of nothing but sand or nothing but gravel, and there needs to be some way to distinguish them just from the shapes or patterns or contrast. erlehmann: in terminal output erlehmann: right erlehmann: i have not looked at the ores erlehmann: i guess they can be distinguished by shape then? erlehmann: texture-wise erlehmann: i mean they have different colors Warr1024: In MTG I dunno, maybe some? erlehmann: well if not, there exists an issue Warr1024: Probably. erlehmann: i think minecraft changed something about their textures at some point to account for that erlehmann: i will look it up Warr1024: But then, content creators may not necessarily want to bake all accessibility features right into a package, and with texturepacks there is an alternative so they don't have to Warr1024: Switching texture packs also has the advantage that they could specialize for specific accessibility needs erlehmann: Warr1024 the most widespread accessibility needs should be addressed by default erlehmann: for example some ppl require low contrast due to cognitive disabilities erlehmann: but that is much rarer than having difficulties with low contrast erlehmann: so i would do a texture pack for the former erlehmann: but insist the latter is taken into account for default textures erlehmann: Warr1024 i think a good example is the dye color textures in mineclone2, they are all differently shaped MisterE, Modder of Sorts: can someone help me get my IRC - minetest server bridge going? Its throwing an error, though I have followed the instructions MisterE, Modder of Sorts: 2021-05-04 02:37:29: ERROR[Server]: IRC: Connection error: irc.ircnow.org: /home/minetest/minetest4/games/aes_game/mods/irc/hooks.lua:174: attempt to index local 'user' (a nil value) -- Reconnecting in 600 seconds... MisterE, Modder of Sorts: heh, I popped in a nil check and it connects... but now players cant hear IRC msgs and vice versa MisterE, Modder of Sorts: actually, players can see IRC msgs, and players can message IRC users, but what players type is not transfered to IRC for some reason. Anyone can help me? VanessaE: does your channel require users to be voiced? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: um... I dont know how to answer that MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Im still learning about IRC MisterE, Modder of Sorts: @VanessaE VanessaE: is it not your own IRC channel? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: it is, but I dont know much about IRC VanessaE: hm. not really sure. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I guess mode "m" would mute participants. I will look up how not to enable it VanessaE: yep VanessaE: that'll do it all right VanessaE: but VanessaE: you want that enabled. VanessaE: you just need to set your IRC "bot" to authenticate with nickserv, and then from IRC, use chanserv to give the "bot" the +V flag so that it'll auto-voice when it joins. VanessaE: the easiest way to do that is to sign onto IRC from a separate client, give yourself a unique nick that refers to the bots, register with nickserv as if it were really for yourself, then once you have that set up and you're able to authenticate through your IRC client, change /nick to whatever nick MT will use, and use nickserv to group it to the one you auth'd with MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yeah, I made sure that that is not it by giving voice to the bot MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so, I did that, I did register with nickserv, and I made the bot log in with that nick PW VanessaE: ok. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: If youd be willing to help, the IRC server is : irc.ircnow.org #minigames and the minetest server is 194.36.25.10:30000 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: @VanessaE Also, The bot sends messages to the IRC channel about players joining and leaving, but it does not send info about players' chat messages (though it does send PMs) VanessaE: ok that's weird. VanessaE: I got nothing. VanessaE: but then again, I use freenode. VanessaE: maybe there's something about ircnow that breaks the mod? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I dont think so, there is already another minetest taht reports to IRC VanessaE: it used to be a thing that some networks absolutely forbade bots of any kind, and took steps to break them VanessaE: hm MisterE, Modder of Sorts: in the same network MisterE, Modder of Sorts: well, hmm. When I do //lua irc.say("hi"), it goes ahead and posts it to the channel MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so I wonder if theres a bug that was recently introduced to the mod VanessaE: I doubt it. I update my mods often, and irc still continues to work for mew VanessaE: My servers use the master branch of the irc mod, at commit 7fbbfd6c at the moment. VanessaE: but that commit was from last July VanessaE: so that mod doesn't get much in the way of updates, but if it ain't broke, don't "fix" it. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: well, its broke for me 😛 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: hmm... so irc.say works, what could be the issue? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: minetest.register_on_chat_message(function(name, message) if not irc.connected or message:sub(1, 1) == "/" or message:sub(1, 5) == "[off]" or not irc.joined_players[name] or (not minetest.check_player_privs(name, {shout=true})) then return end local nl = message:find("\n", 1, true) if nl then message = message:sub(1, nl - 1) end MTDiscord: irc.say(irc.playerMessage(name, minetest.strip_colors(message))) end) MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so obviously this is failing MisterE, Modder of Sorts: huh, "irc.joined_players" is {MisterA = true, test1 = true} MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I wonder if it gets my ip MisterE, Modder of Sorts: @VanessaE , could you do me a favor and join, and say something? to test if it is put into the channel. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: cause if its my ip, a test user wont cut it VanessaE: momwnt. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: no, sorry, I meant the minetest server MisterE, Modder of Sorts: and without being singed into the IRC server VanessaE: oh ok. VanessaE: testuser-1 is me VanessaE: hm, didn't go through to IRC. VanessaE: weird. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yeah... it says nothing in IRC, could you try signing out of IRC VanessaE: done. VanessaE: my only guess is you have some other mod installed that's intercepting in-game chat MisterE, Modder of Sorts: oh! MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yes, I do, as a matter of fact VanessaE: like maybe some kind of channels mod that isn't compatible with irc MisterE, Modder of Sorts: thx! MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yeah, arena_lib VanessaE: next! VanessaE: d'oh, that doesn't work from here 🙂 VanessaE: Another satisfied customer. Next! VanessaE: 😛 Hawk777: > (19:19:31) MTDiscord: Another satisfied customer. Next! Hawk777: So many usernames concatenated… MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Thank you @VanessaE VanessaE: Hawk lol VanessaE: @MisterE, Modder of Sortz you're welcome, though I did nothing 🙂 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yes, well, you helped me figure it out, one way or another. Its really really nice when ppl answer you on Discord, they dont have to, and its quite helpful VanessaE: cheers 🙂 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: @VanessaE So, Its fixed. Where IRC mod used register_on_chatmessage, I replaced it with table.insert(minetest.registered_on_chat_messages, 1, function(name, message) MisterE, Modder of Sorts: and it works fine MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Unfortunately I guess I have a blob now, but its a pretty stable mod as you said, so it should be okish VanessaE: I would do that alteration from arena_lib instead. make it depend on irc, then have it insert that override VanessaE: that way you could make irc support optional, submit it to whoever made that mod. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yeah. thats a good idea, especially since I am now kinda the maintainer for arena_lib gehmehgeh: hmm, is there a way to make the biomes larger? gehmehgeh: (the generation of biomes, that is) gehmehgeh: in the mapgen? Jonathon: you could tweak the biome registrations i believe to yield larger biomes Jonathon: not sure on that sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24732 gehmehgeh: sfan5: Danke :) gehmehgeh: Would be cool to have something like that as a regular option gehmehgeh: Seems like I first have to generate a world, edit this text file, and then start the game gehmehgeh: Ah gehmehgeh: there IS such a thing gehmehgeh: it's int the "all settings" sfan5: I recommend directly editing the file in a created world though gehmehgeh: haha, apparently, ethereal has some sort of banana tree biome gehmehgeh: and I'm lucky, it's my new world's spawn gehmehgeh: feels almost like a cheat Aris: hmm, what's the simplest way to make a minetest server run on boot? Aris: (linux) sfan5: start up a screen from crontab @reboot Aris: hmm, how does that work? sfan5: https://serverfault.com/questions/233084/how-do-i-use-crontab-to-start-a-screen-session hisforeverkid: Hi I just installed ubuntu 20.04 and it has MT 5.1.1 how can I get MT 5.44.1? hisforeverkid: sorry for the typo 5.4.1 Jonathon: use the ppa hisforeverkid: btw I'm hisforever New desktop hisforeverkid: thanks MTDiscorse hisforeverkid: I'm use to pacman mot ppa's lol MisterE, Modder of Sorts: 🥳 Minigame Extravaganza! 🥳 🎮 You're Invited! Come play and hang out with us on Minigames Galore! Play with freinds! Intense PVP! Creative Minigame (QuikBild)! Choose from 6 Multiplayer Minigames 🔫 BlockLeague! ⛩️ Sumo! 🏃 TNTrun! 🐍 Wormball! ⚔️ SkyWars! 🏗️ QuikBild! 📍 Where: Minigames Galore! IP: 194.35.25.10 Port: 30000 🕰️ When: 2PM (1400) MTDiscord: UTC to 4PM (1600) UTC This Saturday (May 8th) convert to your time zone: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20210508T140000&p1=1440 gehmehgeh: hmm, with player_monoids activaed, my character doesn't move (except that I can jump) gehmehgeh: why could this be? gehmehgeh: (I've installed it to make "stamina" and the weather api go to gether gehmehgeh: OK, it's apparaently a bug in the climate mod AntumDeluge: sfan5, sorry to bug you about this again, but I have been trying to figure this out all day. I found that setting a custom attribute via 'ref:get_luaentity().object' doesn't persist after server restart.... AntumDeluge: It looked like I need to manipulate the entity' staticdata. The core.add_entity method has an optional third argument for staticdata. But it seems that it is overwritten by some other data. AntumDeluge: I'll link to the link of code that I am working on. AntumDeluge: Where owner attribute is set: https://github.com/AntumMT/mod-creatures/blob/master/register.lua#L432 AntumDeluge: Ooops, I didn't mean 'ref:get_luaentity().object', I meant 'ref:get_luaentity()'. AntumDeluge: Okay, so it looks like 'ref:get_luaentity().owner = player:get_player_name()' actually does add it to the entity's staticdata. But, the owner attribute is being removed when the server restarts. AntumDeluge: Perhaps it is the mod I am working with that is resetting the staticdata? AntumDeluge: Okay, I figured it out. I had commented out some callbacks in the mod I am working on. It is working now. sfan5: AntumDeluge: the engine doesn't persist any variables set on the entity for you sfan5: the mod has to return data it wants saved in get_staticdata and restore it inside on_activate AntumDeluge: Ya, I just made a mistake in commenting out those callbacks when I didn't understand how staticdata was retrieved. adfeno: Hi, is the Tubelib Harvester biofuel consumption per any block or per ground block ? Noisytoot: Why does https://www.minetest.net/servers not work with GNU LibreJS? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: fix: some code tidy about includes & irr namespaces 13de85bc9 https://git.io/J3ubw (152021-05-03T17:49:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: refacto: remove get_gui_env & draw_load_screen from RenderingEngine s… 1348d5abd https://git.io/J3ubr (152021-05-03T17:49:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: fix: don't use RenderingEngine singleton when it's possible 13a937124 https://git.io/J3ubo (152021-05-03T17:49:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: refacto: RenderingEngine::get_scene_manager() is now not callable fro… 135a02c37 https://git.io/J3ubK (152021-05-03T17:49:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: refacto: Hud: make driver, client, player, inventory, tsrc private & … 13ccdd886 https://git.io/J3ubi (152021-05-03T17:49:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: refacto: drop unused Hud::smgr 13a47a002 https://git.io/J3ubP (152021-05-03T17:49:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: refacto: don't use RenderingEngine singleton on CAO 13809e68f https://git.io/J3ubX (152021-05-03T17:49:19Z) adfeno: Hi there, how to break a node extension to a placeable item? I put a Tubelib Fermenter, then the server owner removed the mod, the item became unknown, I took it to my inventory, then server enabled the mod again, and I placed the half to test, but now I can't break it. adfeno: OK, it seems a server restart fixed it. Baytuch: Good morning, MineTesters Jonathon: Good , people of this channel AntumDeluge: Can anyone tell me why my property isn't being stored to the entity?: local ref = core.add_entity(pos, name); local prop = ref:get_properties(); prop.owner = player:get_player_name(); ref:set_properties(prop) AntumDeluge: When I access the entity in the "on_place" method, the property doesn't exist: function entity:on_punch(puncher, time_from_last_punch, tool_capabilities, dir, damage); print("Owner: " .. tostring(self.object:get_properties().owner) -- nil AntumDeluge: I'm not accessing the placed entity right. Jonathon: Check that your not modifying a reference AntumDeluge: I'm not sure how to do that. AntumDeluge: does core.add_entity return a reference? AntumDeluge: The docs say "Returns `ObjectRef`, or `nil` if failed".... AntumDeluge: So does that mean any changes I make to that return value are not actually amended to the added entity? Jonathon: Yes Jonathon: *i believe so AntumDeluge: Then I'm not sure how to get the actual object. Jonathon: A object ref is a reference, you should not hold onto them as there a snapshot from that current time Jonathon: Get_luaentity or something like that AntumDeluge: ObjectRef:get_luaentity()? Jonathon: Yeah, i think its that AntumDeluge: Okay, I'll try it. Jonathon: Let me know if that works out AntumDeluge: Nope, doesn't work. AntumDeluge: local entity = ref:get_luaentity(); local prop = entity.object:get_properties(); prop.owner = placer:get_player_name(); entity:set_properties(prop); print("Owner: " .. tostring(entity.object:get_properties().owner)) -- nil AntumDeluge: *entity.object:set_properties(prop) Jonathon: To tired atm, i can look tommorrow if no one else gets to it AntumDeluge: K, thanks for trying to help. :) sfan5: AntumDeluge: entity properties are not for arbitrary data sfan5: if you want to store data put it into the lua object that is associated with the entity sfan5: which you can get using ref:get_luaentity() AntumDeluge: Isn't that what I did? "local entity = ref:get_luaentity(); local prop = entity.object:get_properties(); prop.owner = placer:get_player_name(); entity:set_properties(prop); print("Owner: " .. tostring(entity.object:get_properties().owner)) -- nil" AntumDeluge: Or do you mean like this: ref:get_luaentity().owner = placer:get_player_name() sfan5: yes AntumDeluge: Okay. Thank you. sfan5: doing ref:get_luaentity().object is pointless, it returns the same ObjectRef you already have AntumDeluge: Okay. AntumDeluge: Thank you sfan5, exactly what I needed to do. :) gehmehgeh: hmm, when travelling by boat the game kind of stutters every 4-5 seconds. Could this be related loading/unloading the world? And if so, is there an option to prefetch world parts? sfan5: the server already sends more of the world in the direction you're looking and/or moving sfan5: the stutter could come from the client when it loads the world parts, that'd be hard to avoid gehmehgeh: sfan5: could I make it so that the clients prefetches more? gehmehgeh: also, totally unrelated, but from one of my mods a snake bit me and it says "catch three snakes" to craft the anti-venom. How do I catch them? (Are questions like this permitted in this channel? Or is this strictly tech support?) gehmehgeh: sfan5: couldn't I change the chunk size or something?= gehmehgeh: or the "number of emerge threads"? gehmehgeh: ah, now I see it gehmehgeh: there's all kind of range settings. I'll try adjusting those calcul0n: gehmehgeh, for the snake i'd try a double with an empty hand, but it depends on the mod calcul0n: maybe you need some tool or something calcul0n: *right click with an empty hand gehmehgeh: calcul0n_: will try gehmehgeh: calcul0n_: ok, that didn't work gehmehgeh: maybe I need another mod to actually catch animals calcul0n_: maybe search snake in your craft guide, you might find the tool calcul0n_: that'd be weird to need another mod for that gehmehgeh: ah, it's from "water_life" gehmehgeh: calcul0n_: yeah, I can't really tell how to catch them. I'm searching through the forums on minetest.net now gehmehgeh: ah, well, grepping for the term "catch" within the mod directory is more helpful :D gehmehgeh: apparently there's a lasso and a net specing: gehmehgeh: open mod code and read how to catch a snake specing: I've never seen any mod where a snake bites you and then having to craft antivenom gehmehgeh: specing: There's a net and a lasso from Mobs Redo (the mod on which the waterlife mod depends) gehmehgeh: I'll try that one Sokomine: grr. why do i always write fromspec_escape instead of formspec_escape? Krock: except from spec Krock: escape from spec* Sokomine: there is no escape! it's everywhere! * Sokomine: runs away screaming from a fromspec Krock: oh no MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Carts: Fix 0/0 condition on faulty tool capabilities 134945f4b https://git.io/J34OX (152021-05-02T12:59:22Z) specing: Sokomine: yes, there's no escape from me gehmehgeh: hmm, I think there's some sort of graphics glitch: when I look into a dark area, there sometimes white dots here and there gehmehgeh: Is this a known problem/glitch? sfan5: yes gehmehgeh: ah gehmehgeh: is there anything one can do? sfan5: don't think so celeron55: dig deeper celeron55: once there's a solid layer of 10 nodes above you with no sunlight anywhere it won't happen celeron55: walls also Aris: is there a way to make the minetest terrain amplified? by default there are an extra 31000 nodes that can be used in the +Y direction, yet only about 300 are ever used in default terrain generation Krock: Aris: world.mt Krock: no actually. map_meta.txt contains the noise params Aris: ah, thx Krock: tune the scale value, spread etc to generate huge mountains Aris: hmm Krock: note that only newly generated mapblocks will contain those changes Aris: true Krock: existing map parts will not be updated; and would require manual deletion Krock: i.e. /deleteblocks ....... Aris: and that will be in the minetest_game directory? Krock: world specific Krock: i.e. worlds/worldname/ Aris: ah, I see specing: Aris: I'd like to see the result of that MisterE, Modder of Sorts: hi, Im getting some really interesting problems MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I have the newest version of player_api MisterE, Modder of Sorts: and I have a skins mod that sets the player skin using player_api MisterE, Modder of Sorts: the problem is that just after I join a game, the player's skin gets reset to the default sam several times MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so, even though the skins mod does set it to something else, it gets undone MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I have no idea what is causing it. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I am running minetest game and a few other mods that do not interfere MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ANyone have any idea waht is causing it? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: to get me on the right track to fixing it? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: basically, something is preventing me from changing player textures MisterE, Modder of Sorts: my entire codebase is here: https://gitlab.com/arcadeemulationserver/aes_game/-/tree/master the skins mod is here: https://gitlab.com/arcadeemulationserver/skins_collectible and the player_api mod is here: https://gitlab.com/arcadeemulationserver/aes_game/-/tree/master/mods/player_api/textures sfan5: you'll want to figure out which calls sets the texture and then identify all places where this is called MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I tried to do that. I combed through the codebase, but could not identify it. I have a potential fix; I was supposed to use a special version of player_api. I will see if that does fix it MisterE, Modder of Sorts: My server crashed unexpectedly: I got a bunch of errors like the first before the crash, and then the crash error is the last error: 2021-05-01 08:02:34: WARNING[Server]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 08:02:34: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 08:02:34: ERROR[Server]: An unhandled exception occurred: std::bad_alloc 2021-05-01 08:02:34: ERROR[Server]: In thread MTDiscord: 0xc763acba840: 2021-05-01 08:02:34: ERROR[Server]: /home/minetest/minetest4/src/server.cpp:7d: virtual void *ServerThread::run(): A fatal error occurred: std::bad_alloc sfan5: std::bad_alloc == The program ran out of RAM MisterE, Modder of Sorts: great, thx. I guess I need a new server MisterE, Modder of Sorts: How much ram does Minetestserver need? sfan5: it depends on what the mods do, could also just be a bug in them MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok Krock: !tell kilbith oooo nice. I love it MinetestBot: Krock: I'll pass that on when kilbith is around MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I only have 1 gb ram btw Bombo: MisterE: is this a rpi? ;) Bombo: i got a 'prob' i played around with the server and mods and games, now i got one 'unknown item' in my inventory, can i find out what it was? no idea where that came from, i thought i installed all mods again hehe Bombo: (i deleted/moved mods and back) gehmehgeh: hmm, when Minetest throws an "Error" that such and such dependency for some mod X doesn't exist, does that mean mod X also doesn't get loaded? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Bombo: no its not MisterE, Modder of Sorts: its a VM MisterE, Modder of Sorts: sfan5: I have the server crashing with those errors. 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: MTDiscord: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not foun MisterE, Modder of Sorts: and the server;s webpanel says it was only using 38% memory MisterE, Modder of Sorts: those errors just scroll on by while minetestserver is unresponsive sfan5: those aren't errors, just warnings sfan5: in any case it depends on what mods are doing MisterE, Modder of Sorts: well, while it does that, the game is unrespionsive, only shutting it down makes it responsive again gehmehgeh: sfan5: thanks Jordach: tl;dr one mod is trying to get invalid nodes inside a loop that doesn’t exist Jordach: Exit sfan5: gehmehgeh: that answer wasn't for you sfan5: for your question the answer is "yes" gehmehgeh: hm gehmehgeh: uh MisterE, Modder of Sorts: sfan5: MisterE, Modder of Sorts: 2021-05-01 15:55:03: WARNING[ConnectionSend]: con(5/1) Packet quota used up for peer_id=7, was 341 pkts MisterE, Modder of Sorts: waht does that mean? sfan5: the server has a large amount of data to deliver to a client and couldn't send it all at once MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok, is that a problem, or normal? sfan5: not a problem if doesn't happen regularily MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok. I got 16 of those msgs all at once MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so... About the memory problem: MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I installed the game on another server that has 4 gb of ram MisterE, Modder of Sorts: that isnt giving me 2021-05-01 17:30:42: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found MisterE, Modder of Sorts: whereas the one with 1 gb ram is MisterE, Modder of Sorts: sfan5: do you have any idea why skins are mysteriously reset every so often? I have a skins mod that changes the skin, but it gets reset back to sam (character.png) at join and every few minutes. So the skins mod is able to set the skin, but it automatically gets set back to character.png after a few minutes sfan5: I can't guess that, no MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok, thnks anywas. My next step is to try skinsdb, and see if it still happens with that. If it doesn, then I know its not the skins mod at fault, if not, then I know it is Bombo: i removed a lot already but i still get WARNING[Server]: active block modifiers took 201ms (processed 49 of 485 active blocks) Bombo: i tried profiling but don't know what everything means in the txt on_step[24] max 86.7 and 91.4 sound much Bombo: for mobs_animal Pexin: MT server with 1G hahaha sfan5: you can run an MT server with 1GB fine but you have to careful about the player amount and mods you use Pexin: barebones mt_game with one player tho sfan5: nah, up to 5 should be fine MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so.. yeah, now I have 4 gb ram MisterE, Modder of Sorts: It got upgraded Bombo: is there a way to remove all animalworld:* objects/nodes/entities? big_caballito: Hey, can you detect if an object is a player? big_caballito: id imagine so Bombo: i removed the mod, now there are ERROR[Server]: LuaEntity name "animalworld:frog" not defined Jonathon: bombo: yes, alias's and globalstep to check for unregistered objs and remove them Jonathon: big_caballito minetest.is_player Bombo: Jonathon i need to write a lua script? Jonathon: you would need to make a mod to remove nodes and entities from the world Bombo: i got no idea how that works (yet) Bombo: do mods have functions like unregister? Bombo: if i want to remove one Jonathon: unless the mod author wrote one, no Jonathon: the minetest api does MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so, even with 4 gb ram, im still getting these warnings, and the server becomes unresponsive: MisterE, Modder of Sorts: 2021-05-01 19:53:54: WARNING[Server]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 19:53:54: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 19:53:54: WARNING[Server]: Map::getNodeMetadata(): Block not found 2021-05-01 19:53:54: WARNING[Server]: Map::removeNodeMetadata(): Block not found MisterE, Modder of Sorts: any idea what could cause this? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: could it be that the world is corrupted? Bombo: MisterE does this happen on a fresh new world? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: good question, I will try it Bombo: now i got no more 'active block modifiers took 201ms' ;) Bombo: but lots of unknown Bombo: need a cleanup mod ;) Jonathon: there are ones that will nuke stuff to air, however i wont recommend one of those in good faith as you may want to have control over what it converts them to hlqkj: https://github.com/neko259/mod-cleaner hlqkj: this one worked fine with me MisterE, Modder of Sorts: it doesnt seem to happen with a new world 😦 is there anything to do to repair a world? big_caballito: Jonathan: Thanks. Bombo: hlqkj: ok thx will check tomorrow hlqkj: are you using the technic mod perhaps? we had that error, and found out was due to tech Pexin: to remove all instances of , what I would do is shut down server, open database in commandline editor, and mass overwrite those records. but that's because I'm probably insane, so please ignore me. hlqkj: *warning sorry. 'abm took to long' thig hlqkj: nodes are not stored plain in the database, you would have to run across all nodes stored in each mapblock Jonathon: Pexin: lol, best to make a back up first, but that would save you keeping the alias for all of time Pexin: yeah I remembered after I hit enter Jonathon: hlqkj: every machine is a abm in technic if i recall correctly, not surprising Pexin: instead there's a utility to decode/re-encode the map, so.. not quite simple as a database query hlqkj: no, only the switching station is an abm Bombo: i found https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21589 sound even better hlqkj: problem sw/stations forceloads map blocks and never release them hlqkj: as the time passes you end up having a ton of blocks loaded, and the abm running through them. that caused the warning on our server hlqkj: Pexin, that's what i meant :) Pexin: yeah. I just forgot. Bombo: what does abm stand for? hlqkj: Active Block Modifier Bombo: ok thx hlqkj: about the link you posted a few mins ago, not the one to judge but someone I know got serious problems with that mod once MisterE, Modder of Sorts: sfan5 or others who know: 2021-05-01 21:38:34: WARNING[ConnectionSend]: con(4/1) Packet quota used up for pee r_id=8, was 512 pkts im getting that alot actually, what does that mean? sfan5: you asked the same question 4 hours ago MisterE, Modder of Sorts: you said not a prob if it doesnt happen regularly... so its happening regularly, so Id like a bit more info about it. sfan5: the game/a mod is causing too much traffic for the server and it can't keep up with delivering it MisterE, Modder of Sorts: thats happening with a few players online: does that mean that my server does not have good enough internet to support many players MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: or does it just mean that the clients dont have good internet, or are we not able to tell? sfan5: neither MisterE, Modder of Sorts: oh.. sfan5: it means a game or mod is not well optimized sfan5: (probably) MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok. Is there a process to figure out which one it is? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: So I can put it on a todo sfan5: not directly MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok, thanks sfan5: if you run the client with --verbose it can inform you about which packets are sent very often sfan5: and for most you can determine which function would have been called that caused them sfan5: and then you look for calls to it in mods and inefficient places are usually obvious MisterE, Modder of Sorts: my public server is not appearing on the serverlist anymore. It was there, but then its not anymore MisterE, Modder of Sorts: im getting these errors MisterE, Modder of Sorts: 2021-04-30 02:34:43: ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0) MisterE, Modder of Sorts: nm, we found that the problem is with our network connections sfan5: !tell entuland one of your mods is causing the engine to create a way too big packet which it can' process internally, this didn't really change with 5.3->5.4 MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when entuland is around MinetestBot: entuland: Apr-30 05:41 UTC one of your mods is causing the engine to create a way too big packet which it can' process internally, this didn't really change with 5.3->5.4 entuland: sfan5: thanks for the info, I'll be on the lookout for what could be causing it - the problem didn't show up when I restored the local copy of the mod which was exactly the same as the github repo - I suspect it was one or more of the files that the mod itself generated, but even restoring all of those files the problem didn't pop out again, I'll blame the goblins for now ar10ch: am i right in thinking that the crafting grid is an inventory? ar10ch: or list even Krock: yes Krock: a list called "craft" in your player's inventory ar10ch: good im on the right track then thanks Krock: "craftresult" is the crafted output before placing it anywhere Krock: and "craftpreview" is self-explanatory ar10ch: ok - shouldnt set_list("craft", {} clear the craft grid the same way it does for the main list? Krock: yes ar10ch: ah ok thanks :) Krock: but I couldn't tell you whether the list size (3*3 = 9) is preserved Krock: just try it ar10ch: i did it didn't work - but at least im on the right track Krock: player:get_inventory():set_list("craft", []) should really do it ar10ch: ok great stuff i'll give that a go - thanks again :) Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3076-L3086 AntumDeluge: I'm looking for a way to override the function that handles bouncing or landing on a node, but I don't see anything in the API. What I want to do is play a sound when the player "bounces". sounds.footsteps isn't what I want as I don't want the sound to play if player just walking over node. Could someone maybe point me to the right documentation? guest123141: Anyone ever see:  src/tcmalloc.cc:333] Attempt to free invalid pointer 0x7fe991608d80 guest123141: Abort trap: 6 guest123141: on a pull today trying to compile on osx guest123141: Or should I say:   I pulled and built on OSX today and on run I get the Error.   Here is it in context of execution with --verbose: guest123141: 2021-04-28 13:47:01: INFO[Main]: Audio: Global Initialized: OpenAL 1.1, using Built-in Output guest123141: 2021-04-28 13:47:01: INFO[Main]: Irrlicht: Irrlicht Engine version 1.9.0mt2 guest123141: src/tcmalloc.cc:333] Attempt to free invalid pointer 0x7fe991608d80 Jonathon: seems tuxfan also had a issue with audio today, not sure if its related or what platform Jonathon: [ALSOFT] (EE) Failed to set real-time priority for thread: Operation not permitted (1) 2021-04-28 14:36:23: ERROR[Main]: Audio: Global Initialization: Failed to create context guest123141: I am new here of course.  The release is unplayable for me on OSX.   sfan5 pushed a test 5.5-dev a few weeks back  in the MT forum for OSX that works but did not have audio enabled.  So I decided to pull and build Dev for OSX today.  It compiles, and the server run.  But the client chokes at start with this trap 6.  I am not sure if it is guest123141: Audio IrrlichMT or something else Mac Specific. Jonathon: what os are you on? guest123141: Also, there are some errors or ommisions on the GIT readme.md Big Sur Jonathon: jordach has dev builds somewhere around here for macos guest123141: BigSur. Jonathon: ah yes https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jt3el1tn6s1yc82/AADHR74Y1tEQDb9NKQh5Csu-a guest123141: I think I used his build page forum post for insturcitons guest123141: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=26521&sid=832a4c2e03d1d4cae85457e19e224eb2 Jordach: yes Jordach: do you want head or stable guest123141: Head guest123141: Are you able to execute the current client Jordach: yes Jordach: if it doesn't open Jordach: right click the app then click open Jordach: gatekeeper usually causes fun problems guest123141: Which one for x86_64 BigSur? Jordach: both are Jordach: Universal-Lua are M1 specific due to JIT being restricted to developer signed apps Jordach: however, x64 JIT is fine under rosetta and Intel machines guest123141: the Apr27 works fine it s Jordach: lemme grab my mac and hit the build Jordach: it auto updates irrlichtmt and minetest as a whole guest123141: Mind sharing your build script so I can see where I went wrong? Jordach: despisingly evil Jordach: as it doesn't use homebrew at all Jordach: instead i manually built every dependancy Jordach: Will build IrrlichtMT 1.9-dev-04bc02f. guest123141: I used your post and got cmake et all from homebrew.  Built IrrlichtMT and minetest fresh.   But got the pointer error.  Wonder if it is just a passing thing in the MT code or homebrew dependencies. Jordach: it's building fine on my M1 Jordach: these builds target minimum macOS Big Sur 11.0 guest123141: Hmmm..   Are you getting warnings about PACK (which shouldnt matter). guest123141: Yea I am 11.3 Jordach: Will build Minetest 5.5.0-dev-83a7b48bb-x64-JIT, with minetest_game-79e63a8. Jordach: builds updated guest123141: Build of everything went fine with a few warnings that look harmless.   Just after execution of ./minetest.app/Contents/MacOS/minetest  is where the Trap6 hits.    Also running ./minetest.app/Contents/MacOS/minetest --server --terminal  Worked on my build as well. Jordach: afaik homebrew sometimes ships the wrong versions of things guest123141: also is this good enough to tell someone that the Readme.md on minetest seems to have an error  with saying IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR  and IRRLICHT_LIBRARY     When it seem they really have a DIR in front? Jordach: 🤔 Jordach: fwiw the irrlicht on brew is not the minetest one Jordach: you should probably uninstallk that Jordach: the gist of the commands are guest123141: I did. Jordach: cmake . -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=FALSE Jordach: for irrlichtMT Jordach: ie, git clone it Jordach: then run that guest123141: got that Jordach: for minetest you'll notice that i'm manually specifying the directories where the headers for irrMT is Jordach: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=/Users/jordach/Development/irrMT/include -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=/Users/jordach/Development/irrMT/lib/OSX/libIrrlichtMt.a Jordach: while the library (.a) is manually specified Jordach: and yes i keep them in my home directory in their own folder to keep things clean guest123141: :)   I followed your post in the forum  https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=26521&sid=832a4c2e03d1d4cae85457e19e224eb2 Jordach: the brew instructions are a bit more outdated Jordach: however, my builds do run perfectly fine under rosetta Jordach: these are designed to be a straight drop in replacement to neoascetic's builds Jordach: since he went MIA Jordach: however, i won't support anything pre big sur as i don't own a mac old enough to try building it for earlier guest123141: I was hoping to get a clean build. Jordach: ah, these are clean release builds Jordach: if you just holler my name in IRC i can print fresh builds guest123141: :)  No I was hoping to make a build.   If you pulled just now and can execute client then it must be homebrew. Jordach: hmm guest123141: I will keep digging.  Do you get any compile warnings? Jordach: yeah it's homebrew dependancies Jordach: other than clang specifics Jordach: irrMT builds fine Jordach: as does MT guest123141: OK I will start yanking them from git and see what breaks. Jordach: i basically built everything dependancy wise, including LuaJIT Jordach: yeah i did write manual commands Jordach: they're "supported" in that they should work on older macs Jordach: brew remove irrlicht Jordach: since CMake will sometimes ignore your specified directories guest123141: Will try with it removed.  (I had unlinked it only). Jordach: ah that would do it Jordach: i did spend like a day or two with sfan5 trying to figure out why brew was being useless Jordach: end result: i uninstalled brew Jordach: like completely including it's configuration files Jordach: brew doesn't want to support M1 macs guest123141: :)    That may be the only key.  but it was in your post so I followed it. Jordach: brew also doesn't want to support universal binaries which support both intel and M1 Jordach: ye Jordach: not much i can do otherwise Jordach: for M1 users they have to use the regular lua interpreter Jordach: but that's not really a curse considering how much raw grunt it has under the hood Jordach: it's why i provide a standalone x64 build with JIT and x64+arm64 with regular PUC Lua guest123141: I usually run mt/mcl on an rpi4 so I know a thing or two about raw grunt under the hood. guest123141: Do you know which one is better jit or puc? Jordach: more specifically, i had to heavily modify libPNG to disable the ARM NEON Jordach: JIT is better Jordach: far better Jordach: but it only works on intel macs Jordach: and under rosetta, but afaik it probably loses the efficiency of JIT when translating it for arm instructions Jordach: i run arm64 native for this reason guest123141: native always better. Jordach: mm Jordach: libPNG for me was a right pain to deal with due to arm neon Jordach: as Apple's chips do and don't support it Jordach: it's a chicken and egg problem that still persists even in current versions guest123141: Does the Error for not having Mine Test Game when compiling cause any problems? Jordach: also yes Jordach: it won't cause problems Jordach: i get that on my windows machine where i've compiled it for MSVC without _game Jordach: it really fucking annoys me Jordach: why is _game default and not devtest guest123141: (yea!) guest123141: But it would not throw this trap error? guest123141: Compile is done and I am about to fail the execute again. guest123141: And I know I forgot to add the game. Jordach: ignoring game is fine Jordach: it'll default to another Jordach: but yes, usually most compile errors that throw something like that is due to head using irrlichtMT and not the original irrlicht guest123141: (base) me$ ./minetest.app/Contents/MacOS/minetest guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:07:26: ERROR[Main]: Game specified in default_game [minetest] is invalid. guest123141: src/tcmalloc.cc:333] Attempt to free invalid pointer 0x7fb3fe5093c0 guest123141: Abort trap: 6 Jordach: works on my machine wtf guest123141: Nope...:(      Oh well thanks for your help.  I have your executable that works. Jordach: just hop on IRC and prod me if you want a fresh one Jordach: since i'm almost always reachable via the official community discord server Jordach: just holler and i'll print em Jordach: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/837179126028173342/Screenshot_2021-04-29_at_05.10.10.png guest123141: I want to build my own so there is more than one person who can make them... But then maybe we are the only two using macs. Jordach: this community has one M1 mac user and that's me Jordach: so having to deal with all the arm specific fun is my kind of fun Jordach: the one where you push your face into a belt sander Jordach: and then feel glorious when it's polished Jordach: AH Jordach: I JUST REALISED Jordach: you need to ensure the app is not built as a run in place Jordach: well is DRUN_IN_PLACE=false Jordach: that's the critical bit Jordach: i should point out it needs accessibility and input monitoring otherwise the camera speeeeeeeeens guest123141: Yes in place is false.  Using guest123141: git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git guest123141: cd minetest guest123141: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR="../irrlicht/include" -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY="../irrlicht/lib/OSX/libIrrlichtMt.a" guest123141: make package -j8 Jordach: oh Jordach: i usually prefer the full path to irrlicht Jordach: rather than relative Jordach: it's usually that tiny bit safer guest123141: still no go...   Looks like the error is at the init or irrlichtmt. guest123141: (base) machine:jordach me$ ./minetest.app/Contents/MacOS/minetest --verbose guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: Using system-wide paths (NOT RUN_IN_PLACE) guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: Detected share path: /Users/me/game/jordach/minetest.app/Contents/Resources guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: Detected user path: /Users/me/Library/Application Support/minetest guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: Detected cache path: /Users/me/.cache/minetest guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: minetest with SER_FMT_VER_HIGHEST_READ=28, BUILD_TYPE=Release guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: RUN_IN_PLACE=0 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: USE_CURL=1 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: USE_GETTEXT=0 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: USE_SOUND=1 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: USE_FREETYPE=1 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: STATIC_SHAREDIR="minetest.app/Contents/Resources" guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: VERBOSE[Main]: httpfetch_init: parallel_limit=8 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: Message locale is now set to: en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/C/en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: Searching worlds... guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: In /Users/me/Library/Application Support/minetest/worlds: world1 Junkey5 guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: 2 found. guest123141: 2021-04-29 00:35:13: INFO[Main]: Using default world at [/Users/me/Library/Application Support/minetest/worlds/world] guest123141: this is yours executing.   the pointer error stops before Irrlichtmt prints the machine. Jordach: weird guest123141: I was going to yank a fresh luajit but I do not think irrlichtmt depends on that.  I build it with: guest123141: git clone https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht.git guest123141: cd irrlicht guest123141: cmake . -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=FALSE guest123141: make -j8 Jordach: ye you don't need to compile luajit Jordach: it's already in homebrew Jordach: uh guest123141: Yea I, I was going to just start building all dependencies outside brew like to see if any would fix it.  I dont build on mac (not my usual tool base)  Xcode is fresh. Jordach: you forgot the irrlicht libraries guest123141: ? Jordach: in the commands you just listed guest123141: That is for irrlicht? Jordach: apologies Jordach: it's about to turn 6am Jordach: irrlichtMT compiles nicely for me Jordach: but i'm not sure why it doesn't for you guest123141: It compiles fine and quick as does MT.    Just wont run. guest123141: This probably will not get done tonight..  would you mind dropping your build logs on dropbox?  I could go through and see if I have any warnings that you don't Jordach: https://gist.github.com/Jordach/b75350dcd010ccbe1a3e405a1f883520 guest123141: thx. Jordach: https://gist.github.com/Jordach/46a825dcf71cdd0b608b923b0dbbe3ff Jordach: and irrlicht Jordach: ignore the library, as it's compiling for both x64 and arm64 Jordach: right at the end guest123141: could not diff but Eyeball says they are the same.... You have lua in MT which I do not.  But I assume that is because I am using jit.    Time to give up for now.    Could use CMAKE settings to check my dependency versions against yours but... Its bedtime. guest123141: Just a quick update the problem w my osx build does look to crop up in IrrlichtMT.   I broke down and built the examples with debug symbols and get the Abort Trap: 6  below. guest123141: ./01.HelloWorld guest123141: Irrlicht Engine version 1.9.0mt2 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:14:42.828 01.HelloWorld[43041:442216] *** Assertion failure in -[NSMenu initWithTitle:], NSMenu.m:361 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:14:42.829 01.HelloWorld[43041:442216] *** Terminating app due to uncaught exception 'NSInternalInconsistencyException', reason: 'Invalid parameter not satisfying: aTitle != nil' guest123141: *** First throw call stack: guest123141: ( guest123141: 0 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff2085998b __exceptionPreprocess + 242 guest123141: 1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x00007fff20591d92 objc_exception_throw + 48 guest123141: 2 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff20882af2 +[NSException raise:format:arguments:] + 88 guest123141: 3 Foundation 0x00007fff2163aa12 -[NSAssertionHandler handleFailureInMethod:object:file:lineNumber:description:] + 191 guest123141: 4 AppKit 0x00007fff22fd1426 -[NSMenu initWithTitle:] + 196 guest123141: 5 01.HelloWorld 0x000000010cd6235b _ZN3irr16CIrrDeviceMacOSXC1ERKNS_27SIrrlichtCreationParametersE + 555 guest123141: 6 01.HelloWorld 0x000000010cd57a03 createDeviceEx + 51 guest123141: 7 01.HelloWorld 0x000000010cd5797c createDevice + 268 guest123141: 8 01.HelloWorld 0x000000010cb45835 main + 69 guest123141: 9 libdyld.dylib 0x00007fff20701f3d start + 1 guest123141: 10 ??? 0x0000000000000001 0x0 + 1 guest123141: ) sfan5: currently irrlicht applications only work when ran inside app bundles sfan5: it looks like you already tried that with MT but it crashed for unclear reasons guest123141: Yea same crash.... Worked with Jordache for a bit but no luck.  Interesting that it is the same fail on the example. sfan5: what's the crash when you run MT from inside the app bundle? can't be the same guest123141: (Or at least the same trap 6 guest123141: Both irr..MT and MT build fine.  But the MT client crashes a few seconds in with (will paste below). guest123141: ./minetest.app/Contents/MacOS/minetest --verbose guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: Using system-wide paths (NOT RUN_IN_PLACE) guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: Detected share path: /Users/me/game/dev/minetest/minetest.app/Contents/Resources guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: Detected user path: /Users/me/Library/Application Support/minetest guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: Detected cache path: /Users/me/.cache/minetest guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: minetest with SER_FMT_VER_HIGHEST_READ=28, BUILD_TYPE=Release guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: RUN_IN_PLACE=0 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: USE_CURL=1 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: USE_GETTEXT=0 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: USE_SOUND=1 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: USE_FREETYPE=1 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: STATIC_SHAREDIR="minetest.app/Contents/Resources" guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: VERBOSE[Main]: httpfetch_init: parallel_limit=8 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: Message locale is now set to: en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/C/en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: Searching worlds... guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: In /Users/me/Library/Application Support/minetest/worlds: Borgle Junkey5 guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: 2 found. guest123141: 2021-04-29 02:35:20: INFO[Main]: Using default world at [/Users/me/Library/Application Support/minetest/worlds/world] guest123141: running --server --terminal seems to work fine. sfan5: I don't see a crash reason, rather it just stops sfan5: (also a tip: normally people don't paste more than ~4 lines into IRC and instead use a pastebin service) sfan5: can you run that under lldb or similar to get a backtrace? guest123141: Sorry:( guest123141: 15 lines of output for lldb but I don't have a pastebin. sfan5: https://paste.debian.net/ guest123141: :)   Was just about to use ubuntu guest123141: https://paste.debian.net/1195618/ sfan5: sounds like either macos is doing some weird entitlement stuff or it's tcmalloc crashing sfan5: and that reminds me: try disabling leveldb in your build guest123141: Will try to set ENABLE_LEVELDB=OFF on MT and recompile. guest123141: may have still had old irrlich in /usr/local from homebrew (or perhaps from a previous shared irrlichmt compile?).    rm -Rf  and trying again. sfan5: grep IRRLICHT CMakeCache.txt to check guest123141: that is how I found that it was still linking to a dyld in usr/local guest123141: sfan?  Not sure if this is how to use pastebin...  (but I am learning)  https://paste.debian.net/1195620/   TLDR   is it expected that the cmakecashe show  IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR:PATH=IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR-NOTFOUND   when the path correct in the cmake -D? sfan5: no it's not supposed to say that sfan5: try -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR="$PWD/../irrlicht/include" instead (absolute path)= guest123141: Same result. guest123141: It may be down to cmake from homebrew or ?   I will try again tomorrow with clean clones. guest123141: Thanks for the help,  I am a fan! ghoti: Greetings. I'm trying to figure out logging. When I host a local server, I get reams of activity data going to debug.txt. Is that the data stored with the --logfile option too? How is it supposed to be rotated? Can the option be a pipe? ghoti: That is, can the filename I specify be a pipe through cronolog? Or would a bash process substitution be a better bet? sfan5: you can probably log to a pipe sfan5: but minetestserver also prints everything interesting to stdout/stderr swift110: hello all swift110: whos playing today> entuland: hello there everyone, been away for a while, hope you're all doing great entuland: been messing with some minetest again recently and noticed that set_rotation() on entities seems to have a whole degree resolution - doesn't matter what fraction of a radian I give to it, it snaps in place to whole degrees entuland: is that normal or am I missing any setting / configuration to have a finer resolution? appguru: Rotation is a v3f - I see no reason why there should be whole degree resolution swift110: is anyone on here playing minetest on android?> entuland: sorry - got disconnected - can't really tell why it's doing that either, I can visibly see the mesh of my entity snapping during the orientation despite different values provided to set_rotation() swift110: oh ok entuland: argh... updated to 5.4.1, created a new world with some of the mods I need, the game crashes with "/tmp/minetest/src/network/connection.cpp:3f9: processReliableSendCommand: An engine assumption 'c.data.getSize() < 0x8000*512' failed." - narrowed down the problem to my own wesh mod (https://github.com/entuland/wesh) but no idea what could be causing the engine to freak out entuland: version 5.3.0 had no problems with it Menchers: now why does this require the symbol irr::CIrrDeviceLinux::CIrrDeviceLinux(irr::SIrrlichtCreationParameters const&) on something that is not linux sfan5: the "Linux" device is what you want to support any unix-like OS MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add helpful error messages if Irrlicht library / include dir are set … 13734fb2c https://git.io/J3fDv (152021-04-28T06:38:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix rotation for falling mesh degrotate nodes (#11159) 13228f1c6 https://git.io/J3fDi (152021-04-28T06:38:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix Windows pipelines on Gitlab-CI 1383a7b48 https://git.io/J3fxg (152021-04-28T07:18:05Z) ashtrayoz: Question about: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/cca58fe0fd1aac4246a23e1fc4f8469bdd280c6d ashtrayoz: Lines 907 says: if (floodable_node != CONTENT_AIR) { ashtrayoz: Is this just an optimisation, or is there something deeper here? ashtrayoz: I am thinking of removing the condition on my custom build. sfan5: it is exactly that sfan5: I imagine trying to call into Lua for every liquid node places isn't very performant ashtrayoz: I expect that there will be a cost. ashtrayoz: I will have to benchmark it to find out what that cost looks like. ashtrayoz: Of course it depends on how often water (or other liquids) are moved around on the map - in my world, players do not get to place water_source nodes :-) ashtrayoz: Currently looking fine, a flood of water down the mountain-side did not appear to consume significant CPU, max-lag went to 0.11s. ashtrayoz: Thank you, sfan5. Aris: is there a way to make the night lighter so that it's slightly easier to see? Krock: Aris: hereby I raise your worst opponent. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26630 Krock: minetest.conf settings display_gamma and ambient_occlusion_gamma will do the trick Krock: display_gamma = 3 for max brightness Aris: ok, thx, my monitor has terrible brightness Krock: and ambient_occlusion_gamma also at around 3 Krock: yes. I can feel that. Krock: otherwise you can also adjust the light curve in the source code, but that's a bit annoying if you don't have a build setup yet (especially if you'd use anything else than Linux) Aris: *I'm just gonna try the simple solution* Aris: yep, that did the trick, thanks again! Krock: yw! Benrob0329: sad no api for this noises Jonathon: this is a lot of stuff MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update library versions in buildbot (#11229) 139660ae2 https://git.io/JOAAy (152021-04-27T09:50:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Check for required engine features on startup 1379e63a8 https://git.io/JOAAS (152021-04-27T09:50:32Z) beanzilla: How can I get an itemstring from a `minetest.get_meta(pos)`? beanzilla: Could I just do some call like `meta:get_string("name")`? AntumDeluge: beanzilla, I'm not really the one to answer that question (so you should probably wait for someone with knowledge about it), but I just tested it on a node & it seems like that is not what you want. "name" doesn't seem to be set by default (at least for nodes). Jonathon: If you have pos, get the node itself, then get the name from that, then do ItemStack(name) beanzilla: AntumDeluge, Ok thank you for the input. calcul0n__: yep, i don't think you can get the node infos if you only have the meta AntumDeluge: Jonathon, how do you "get the node itself" from pos? (trying to look it up now) * beanzilla: bangs more on the keyboard to get the node then convert to itemstack. AntumDeluge: Ah, simple: minetest.get_node(pos) Hawk777: This plan is going to run into problems for nodes that don’t drop themselves as items, isn’t it? Though I guess it depends on what your intent is. AntumDeluge: So it should be minetest.get_node(pos):get_name() beanzilla: I am modifying Technic's Fuel Fired Generators so they consume only plants (Bioreactor) AntumDeluge: Hmmm, didn't work: "attempt to call method 'get_name' (a nil value)" Jonathon: Or get_node_or_nil AntumDeluge: Oh, that's because I was looking at ItemStack definition, not node. I guess node doesn't have "get_name()" method. AntumDeluge: Sorry I couldn't be more help. beanzilla: AntumDeluge, Or you could just access the table like minetest.get_node does. beanzilla: AntumDeluge, It's ok you helped me get closer. beanzilla: I am confused... How does a furnace get the time an item burns for? beanzilla: Is it by flammable? Or is there some extra definition to the item? (I'm looking at coal to see how it compares to things like saplings) beanzilla: Hmm... well I guess I don't need to bother making a bioreactor since the Technic Fuel-Fired Generator can burn items of plant like. * beanzilla: continues to bable into insanity. calcul0n: beanzilla, fuel items are registered with minetest.register_craft() and type="fuel" calcul0n: see https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/definition-tables/#furnace-fuel beanzilla: Ah ha... Thank you very much calcul0n. AntumDeluge: Can I prevent a formspec from closing after "Enter" key is pressed while a text input field has focus? I tried setting "fields.quit = false" in "on_receive_fields", but it doesn't work. sfan5: on_receive_fields runs on the server after the client has already closed the window, even if you could do that it would be too late sfan5: but yes there's a way to do this, you need to specify this in the formspec AntumDeluge: In a meta key? sfan5: no sfan5: !api MinetestBot: Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt sfan5: search for field_close_on_enter Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2422-L2427 AntumDeluge: Perfect! Thank you. Jonathon: hmm, i could have used discord minetest bot to get that faster Menchers: gyah, why is there a DOS formatted file in irrlichtmt sfan5: a? all of them have Windows line endings sfan5: it's a pain Menchers: maybe *that* is why these patches didn't apply Menchers: I think my main problem is how it's looking for Menchers: there are systems that aren't linux irrlicht! Menchers: hmm the patch to source/Irrlicht/Makefile would have been what fixes this Menchers: but of course that's been stripped out and replaced with… CMake Menchers: urgh * Menchers: must do a lot more therapeutic griping, then learn CMake again AntumDeluge: Any ideas why '/revoke server' isn't working for me? hlqkj: is that player the one listed as the admin in minetest.config? AntumDeluge: I don't think so, but I will check. hlqkj: *.conf -- my bad lol AntumDeluge: No, I have "name = server" in minetest.conf. The actual name "server" should affect it, right? AntumDeluge: It says the priv has been revoked, but calling '/priv 2021-04-23 18:06:20: ERROR[Main]: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:422: in function how to find out which mod caused this error? celeron55: it can't open a file for writing and there are some possible reasons for that celeron55: i suppose your filesystem could be full celeron55: or the world path could have some characters that somehow cause it to fail celeron55: a filesystem permission error is also possible celeron55: it's definitely not caused by a mod though sfan5: wow great forceloading does not use safe_write_to_file Bombo: hi heavygale: hi Bombo: is there a convention for mod.zip packages? i downloaded some, and some have subdirs in it and some not Bombo: e.g. beacons doesnt, so i unzip to mods/ and need to create a dir first Bombo: cool trees has a sub, so i can just unzip to mods/ Bombo: castle_gates has a sub Bombo: is there a rule? Bombo: (i want to make a bash script to dl mods and extract it to the mods dir) Warr1024: where are you downloading them from? heavygale: use git clone ^^ Bombo: contentdb Warr1024: ContentDB should have actually-enforced conventions for them. Warr1024: It could be possible that some zips were created by an older version of CDB though before enforcement was done... Warr1024: May also depend on whether the user did a zip upload release or released from VCS. rubenwardy: ContentDB will create zips with an inner folder now. Previously, it did not as git-archive-all defaults to not doing that rubenwardy: that only applies to VCS releases, zip uploads aren't touched rubenwardy: unofficial CDB cli: https://github.com/ronoaldo/minetools Warr1024: Zip uploads are validated though, so they could be rejected if the inner folder structure is not correct. Warr1024: Or I guess CDB could unpack everything to validate, and then just repack everything itself so it meets standards there ... though that'd lose the benefits of someone e.g. running advzip against their zips to improve download times... rubenwardy: I think that's a bit too pedantic to fail on though, as the Minetest client doesn't care Bombo: i just want to avoid creating subdirs in a subdir ;) Bombo: does the minetools check for that? Bombo: i don't speak go rubenwardy: it should do, I haven't tested it rubenwardy: I did explain the process to the author though Warr1024: Okay, so the convention is "we don't care about the folder structure of the zip because MT itself doesn't care and supports either" I guess? Bombo: hm it looks like it checks for modpack.txt or .conf then it's a modpack with sub Bombo: cool_trees seems to be a modpack Warr1024: So I guess that means that the correct way to install stuff from CDB is either use the in-game menus, or use the cli tool; downloading from the website and then manually unzipping is not really a supported "primary" use-case. Bombo: i did that until now, manually unzip to the headless remote server via ssj Bombo: ssh. Bombo: hm castle_gates has a dir but no modpack.(txt|conf) Warr1024: Cloning the git repo is a good way to stay up-to-date with the latest code, but it can get you "ahead of release" depending on how the author manages branches and such, which might be detrimental to stability if you're trying to run a "production" sort of environment unless they have a stable branch you can track that matches what they do on CDB. Warr1024: That's sort of the ideal process, though, if it's possible for you. Automating downloads from CDB via stuff like the cdb cli tool is also possible, esp. if there's no stable branch and you want only official releases ... but I'm not sure how it handles the update case; never actually used it myself yet. Bombo: do i get the git repo with the CDB API? Warr1024: If you're querying the CDB API, then packages should have a VCS URL. That may or may not be a directly-clonable URL but usually it is Warr1024: Technically I don't think there's any rule that says it can't be a URL to an hg or svn repo, or to the landing page of a hosting site that uses a different URL for actual cloning ... but I don't think that's an issue; I've never seen anyone use VCS for MT that's not git, and the major git hosting services like 'hub and 'lab at least let you directly clone the same URL as is used for the "browser experience" Bombo: got it thx Bombo: curl https://content.minetest.net/api/packages/SpaghettiToastBook/beacons/ Bombo: uses notabug Bombo: never heard of that heh Jonathon: 10x better than repo.or.cz erlehmann: Or I guess CDB could unpack everything to validate, and then just repack everything itself so it meets standards there ... though that'd lose the benefits of someone e.g. running advzip against their zips to improve download times... erlehmann: this is something that should never be done erlehmann: input sanitization is a proven-wrong strategy erlehmann: bad input should be rejected erlehmann: go read about LANGSEC if you don't believe me TechDude: Hello erlehmann erlehmann: hi erlehmann: do you have a question or why are you highlighting me TechDude: Just saying hi :) erlehmann: ok cool Warr1024: erlehmann: it's not bad input though, it's just suboptimal. Warr1024: That's basically like saying a photo hosting service shouldn't build thumbnails of images, it should reject photo uploads until users provide separate thumbnails of the correct sizes themselves. erlehmann: Warr1024 it is unwanted, that is enough erlehmann: Warr1024 “bad” does not have to mean “exploits something” Warr1024: Doing that would actually improve security a LOT, not only because input sanitization would be stricter, but it'd actually make the usability of the system so bad that nobody would use it and therefore there wouldn't be anything at risk in the first place. celeron55: when unpacking zips i tend to use "autodetect subdir" function where if the zip doesn't contain a single top-level directory, a directory is created for the contents, otherwise the supplied subdirectory is used rubenwardy: is that a function of unzip tools? Warr1024: Rejecting bad inputs is a nice philosophy but it only works if you're at a stage where the input hasn't already been decided and you no longer have an opportunity to correct it. celeron55: rubenwardy: for me it's a feature of kde's dolphin file manager celeron55: i would expect some other programs to also have it, it's very usefuö celeron55: useful* Warr1024: I actually tend to always automatically create a top-level dir and just de-nest manually if I find that the zip already had its own top-level dir. Working with zips is sort of rare enough with a modern unix-like workflow... Warr1024: The correct thing to do is almost always "nothing, that's the package manager's job"... Jordach: Fun fact 7zip does this natively if you extract as */ Jordach: The asterisk expands to the name of the archive MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rename “Irrlicht” to “IrrlichtMt” in documentation 13776015c https://git.io/JODls (152021-04-23T19:37:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Add `minetest.colorspec_to_colorstring` (#10425) 13074e6a6 https://git.io/JODlG (152021-04-23T19:37:24Z) erlehmann: nice Andrey01: hi, does anybody know 'minetest.node_dig()' will trigger 'on_destruct()' or 'on_dig()' callbacks? AntumDeluge: I've been looking at some other mods, trying to figure out how to append the player inventory to a formspec I want to show. But it is unclear to me how to do it. To get the player's inventory formspec, I do "player:get_inventory_formspec()". But I'm not sure how to parse it to append it my formspec. Jonathon: see list[ specing: see existing formspecs and copy as needed :P Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2250-L2263 AntumDeluge: The furnace formspec has a line like this: "list[current_player;main;0,4.25;8,1;]". Is that what I am looking for? Jonathon: yes AntumDeluge: Thank you. I'll try it out. Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3064-L3085 for the specific names you can use in list[ and varients AntumDeluge: Thank you Jonathon! Exactly what I was looking for. :) Jonathon: np, i was really confused myself till a found the section, a link in list[ would be helpful AntumDeluge: Another question: I'm trying to create a box in the formspec where an item can be dropped. I'm using the web formspec editor ( https://luk3yx.gitlab.io/minetest-formspec-editor/ ) & created the element "list[context;input;1,1;1,1;0]". But it's not working. Jonathon: not working? AntumDeluge: It doesn't show up on the formspec. Jonathon: did you create the input inv in node meta? AntumDeluge: No. I did not. Am I supposed to. AntumDeluge: ? Jonathon: well, how the heck is the formspec supposed to find a inventory that doesnt exist? Jonathon: 🙃 AntumDeluge: Okay, thanks. I think I can figure that out. :) Jonathon: local inv = minetest.get_meta(pos):get_inventory() inv:set_size("main", 9*2) AntumDeluge: I looked at the furnace as an example, but I'm still doing something wrong. Don't have time to work on it more right now. Will have to do it later. Thanks for the help Jonathon. VJTD3: does minetest share code with the official source? Hawk777: If you’re asking if Minetest is open source (i.e. the Minetest source is available publicly) then yes, . Hawk777: VJTD3: ^ VJTD3: no, i'm more asking is if minetest is bound by https://account.mojang.com/documents/commercial_guidelines Hawk777: Minetest is not Minecraft and AFAIK has never incorporated any code from it. VJTD3: does the MC client work with the Minetest server? Jordach: no Jordach: obviously NOT GreenXenith: Minetest is the official source :] Hawk777: I wouldn’t say it’s *obvious* personally, but no, MT ≠ MC and they don’t really have anything technical in common—they just happen to be fairly similar games. VJTD3: i'm assuming then all MC mods won't work on MT? Jordach: yes Jordach: Minetest is built with Lua and C"++" Jordach: i put those in quotes as it's more written as C with C++ used for extra fancies Danil_2461: is there a way for a mod to get the seed of the world? rubenwardy: See minetest.get_mapgen_settings VanessaE: could someone give this function a look, https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/biome_lib/-/blob/mapgen_deco/compat.lua#L53 VanessaE: tell me if anything looks wrong there? sfan5: looks correct from quick look but I'm not really into the mapgen specifics VanessaE: sfan5: oh good. I was especially concerned with how I'm translating biome_lib's standard perlin behavior/usage to what the engine wants VanessaE: I mean, the code works fine, but perlin being what it is, it's ...not easy to compare :P VanessaE: especially since biome_lib uses an "either it is or it ain't" comparison for fertile land, and MT engine uses a gradient (which is what I should have also done originally, in retrospect) Cybille: @VanessaE: Nice Code, Well Scriptet. I was sure it has noting wrong in it. But its litke sfan5 say "A Part of your biome_lib that you have in head an a All in One Concept. Some little Expample on Use (in your Biome_lib) will be Helpfull to understand the Concept and implementation (if you dont have allready done it in a Help Text) Cybille: And take Care about "All in One Concept" sometime it was better to Copy/Past 5 time something insted a for/next Loop (more Code, but easy to Read/Copy/Use to everybody and faster without For/Next Loops/Subs) ... More Work to do, but Easy to Understand and Manage Expetion on Place(like you want) ... High Coding/Subs generate more Problem and OverView Trouble (you have sure a Big Head with all thes Files and Concept) VanessaE: um...okay VanessaE: Also Please Don't Write Like This, It's Hard To Read. Cybille: Thanks, you Code too, i dont want to exchange your Place to think about all Expetion and Posibilty to Use this ... Nice, well Scriptet Code ... Do you give Support to your onw Chef ? Jordach: Is that a fucking GPT powered bot calcul0n_: a well scriptet bot anyway Jordach: Either that or it’s one of those fancy schmancy GPT translators VanessaE: Cybille: biome_lib is a very old mod, and has been in use for 7 or 8 years now. I'm attempting to adapt it (and perhaps, eventually, some mods that use it) to use the engine's built-in decorations feature, which did not exist when I first started the mod. That adaptation (the function I showed above) runs just fine. I'm just not convinced that it's actually correct, both because plant coverage on the terrain is subjective sort of thing, and VanessaE: because right now only 3 of the 52 items in my usual setup actually get handled by this adaptation routine (the rest have climate/terrain/etc controls in use that the engine can't do and so biome_lib continues to handle them the way it always has) VanessaE: (oof, write a novel..) Cybille: A Novel about "the Passion Christus" for Roman BDSM that think Arab has the Wong belive with Moses Book (Koran=Bibel) because the dont wand Schizzo Slave Collar? No its already Passing on CNN Jonathon: Well then VanessaE: definitely a bot Cybille: One Men one Word GOD ... of Mars that live behinde the Moon ... a dumb Cow wakka wakka Bomb ole, ist-an-bull, OMG der HERR im Himmel Sau-Die-Ah>Ra Order Cybille: > E=MC2 > ParaNOia Traum>Att>ahh BurnID RA Like town cum any Next Station Mos)t(Cow Cow-Boy KuhRa Mak Fly KuhRaRe Noah LIGHT opposite Dark Pass A Gier: be Fertile and make the World SubServant .... Ceasar has don it for the Fuck Animal of ZARR>UDSSR>Soviet>Russia WorkHot or DieCold Hell Angel inzest AlienWARE Smeagol (2in1Head) ... ParaNOid AndroID 100% Relativ, Where Wolf Himalay Cosak Big Rasse? Next Station EOF VanessaE: (though my remarks still apply :P ) specing: top kek Cybille: The Bot was von Google GLASS (Made in Korea) Kollegium Noah Light Ms iOS Google, and after Covid with all that drink, get Drugs or thief Ashtree on Every (Security)Cam, Coulds and Amatuer Cam of Women Light Shoppig World rubenwardy: Jordach: no where near good enough to be GPT Cybille: The loudest with the last World, write "the Novel" ... of his i-no-Cent Amour-Y moR@Rom PoorPoor BeGER Battle-Helm Nazi-Ret from KZ Kreta ... The Law and the OMG-Tick ... "Ja-il" VVater Vater MadHouSee OMG-Tick Jordach: :(){ :|:& };: VanessaE: this may not be a particularly busy channel anymore, but we don't need gibberish bots here. Swift110-mobile: Yeah thats very true Swift110-mobile: Where has everyone gone? specing: I find it particularly funny that VanessaE bothered with a long response :) specing: Swift110-mobile: they let go of their freedom and privacy, and fully embraced Discord VanessaE: specing: because it's still relevant and I didn't quite figure it out until after I hit enter :P VanessaE: specing: In all fairness, Discord turned out to not be as hateworthy as I thought it was VanessaE: (and it gives me an excuse VanessaE: to switch from one to the other VanessaE: to mess with people :) ) IhrFussel: Discord doesn't leak your IP in case you don't use a bouncer/VPN for example VanessaE: which I do happen to use specing: neither does Freenode, if you use SASL auth VanessaE: (though not for privacy reasons) specing: and get a mask VanessaE: I use a bouncer (ZNC) for the sake of connectivity, idgaf about "IP privacy" really specing: IP numbers aren't really that important, at least they can't be used for anything other than rough localisation IhrFussel: I think IRC also generally gives more info about the connected user by default...could be wrong here specing: Info to whom? VanessaE: I guess he means stuff like whether you're logged into Nickserv, or what specific IRC server you're connected to IhrFussel: Like idle time and more...but this may depend on the client VanessaE: (or your bouncer is connected to) IhrFussel: Also not sure if IRC has a 'invisible' feature VanessaE: it doesn't, not really. though I suppose if a server wanted to do that there's nothing stopping it specing: I really want you to answer that question: "To who does it give that info" VanessaE: (but that might lead to philosophical differences like what led to the IRCnet/EFnet split all those years ago) IhrFussel: Whoever queries it specing: Because apart from stalking an individual, you cannot really make money from the small data sets generated by being connected to a few IRC channels VanessaE: specing: I know you're on hitchcock.freenode.net f.ex specing: While social networks are known to sell your "anonymised" data to advertisers VanessaE: and if you didn't have a cloak, I'd probably have some idea of your IP also specing: VanessaE: oh wow you totaly doxxed me right there VanessaE: haha VanessaE: that's the info he's talking about though VanessaE: whereas on Discord, there isn't really an equivalent to IRC whois :) specing: you can connect to Freenode via Tor/VPN and you cannot do that to Discord Krock: instead you're given an unique user ID from what I know specing: https://stallman.org/discord.html VanessaE: bleh, RMS is irrelevant :P Jordach: RMS is semi-relevabt Jordach: let him handle the legal and continute to refine the [L/A]GPLs Jordach: and i'm clearly having an offday when it comes to grammar and spelling IhrFussel: Some more features that make discord just better for chatting: Editing messages, deleting your own messages, mentioning users without pinging them automatically, auto loading of images and videos when you post a link...and many more heavygale: these are not unique features of discord, they exist with other modern decentralized opensource networks as well IhrFussel: IRC also doesn't allow you to login to the exact same username on multiple devices...does it? Krock: with ZNC that kinda works IhrFussel: heavygale, yes but people chose the one they like the most so others follow them ... It's the same about WhatsApp...almost nobody in Germany does NOT have it installed...it replaced text messages for us essentially by now heavygale: oh, so I need to leave germany? IhrFussel: Nah, but there are also other options that are very similar to WA...like Telegram, Signal, Threema etc...but none of them got a chance heavygale: i have never used whatsapp, instead the services you mentioned (90% of my chats are via matrix, followed by jabber/xmpp), so for me the picture is different: via whatsapp you have no chance with me ^^ specing: IhrFussel all these features are provided by Matrix and XMPP specing: XMMP(?) specing: Matrix.org also bridges all of freenode Jonathon: matrix is like a chinese clone of discord while being limited by irc single channel design tbh VanessaE: ooooookay that Cybill bot emailed me...more of the same gibberish as before VanessaE: (or rather the twit who runs it commanded it so do so I suppose 😛 ) Jonathon: emailed? VanessaE: mmhmm Pexin: clearly the time has come to destroy the earth Jonathon: well then Pexin: scour the vile AI VanessaE: see for yourself 😛 VanessaE: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/834901959067697242/email.txt Jonathon: thats a new one Jonathon: seen irc spam bots, but not ones that email people Pexin: wrote a dicebot once, to see if i could. also because I didnt want to deal with ruby Pexin: nowadays i could expand it a lot, but why VanessaE: crazy huh VanessaE: I can't even begin to make sense of that...salad VanessaE: ooh he/it tried spamming on one of my servers too VanessaE: as Alc-Zombie Danil_2461: is there a way to change the shape of water source? Danil_2461: or a liquid source Cybille: its Free to spend Time for Grafics or Programing. I will be greatfull, if you do it for me Cybille: The Devtest/mods/Mapgen/init.lua and the "basenodes:water_source" was good as Example and Testing base Danil_2461: ....what Cybille: minetest-5.4.0-win64\games\devtest\mods\basenodes\textures\default_water_flowing.png was a 16x16pix (16 times = 256pix) Pic register with "minetest.register_node" in dthe basenodes\init.lua Cybille: 1 (Transparent) Pic with 16 single Pic on Top of each other, that you can change in your own Game or during ChangeRecipie during "a new Mod" Cybille: Open "minetest-5.4.0-win64\games\minetest_game\mods\default\textures\default_water_source_animated.png" with your "Paint" and change it Cybille: and if you change minetest-5.4.0-win64\games\minetest_game\mods\default\nodes.lua minetest.register_node("default:water_source" ... walkable = true .... you can walk on Water MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix devtest Lua error 13daf862a https://git.io/JOKiI (152021-04-21T14:42:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix two CMake build issues 133e2145d https://git.io/JO6IT (152021-04-21T18:26:43Z) ryvnf: yeah. I'm quite sure that was not an issue until recently. So you can always go back to like Mineclone2 version 0.69 and compare what has changed ryvnf: whops (sorry, wrong channel) ar10ch: if pointed_thing.type == "object" , then that object can be a player, right? calcul0n_: ar10ch, players are entities so i guess yes ar10ch: so really if pointed_thing:is_player should work also? calcul0n_: hmm, not sure it works this way, where this pointed_thing comes from? ar10ch: more curiosity than anything. experimenting atm. sfan5: it'd be pointed_thing.object:is_player() sfan5: ah no sfan5: it's pointed sfan5: pointed_thing.ref:is_player() ar10ch: ah ok, great - thanks sfan5 and calcul0n Danil_2461: m DivideByZero: Good morning. I was up all night making a mod to share. Just finished submitting it to the CDB. Bombo: hi Bombo: what happens if i remove a mod Bombo: i added beacons mod, now the kids put beacons everywhere and everything is slow 9fps Bombo: will it fsck up the game db? or just remove the blocks calcul0n_: you should just get unknown nodes Jonathon: can you can just alias them to air calcul0n_: you can remove them in creative or keep them if you plan to reinstall the mod Jonathon: *and you calcul0n_: or that sfan5: here's general advice: if you aren't sure what's about to happen, just make a backup of the world Jonathon: ^ this Bombo: ok backup done ;) Bombo: alias to air? Bombo: i could replace them with world edit Jonathon: well, if you want to find them all you could use we //r Bombo: is there a counter? how many nodes x are there ;) Bombo: thousands of penguins everywhere Bombo: but how many are there exactly Bombo: and btw just removing the beacons mod replaces the beacons with unknown node, including the laser up to the sky lol Jonathon: we told you this would happen Jonathon: "you should just get unknown nodes" Bombo: i know Bombo: but i didn't expect it to replace the laser Bombo: like the beam Jonathon: there just nodes Bombo: i just thought it would remove the first main node that 'emits' the laser ;) Bombo: now it's more work to replace the unknown Bombo: nodes Bombo: for we //replace i just had to define the flat region Pexin: mmm lazor beem master: Hi master: i'm using the "vehicles" mod to add cars and planes to the game... but i can't find the solution for this simple problem.... how do you "pick up" a car or a plane ? master: in other others, how do you "remove" from the world to your inventory the plane ? master: looks like a bug at this point -.- already try multiple ways and nothing Bombo: in the server log i got 'WARNING[Server]: active block modifiers took 374ms (processed 328 of 485 active blocks)' that's prob causing lag, how can i find out what blocks are causing this? Krock: it's rather the mod that is slow Krock: but you can enable the mod profiler to get a timing report Krock: master: how about Shift+Click Krock: if you want to remove it from the inventory, move it to a trash can (either directly in the inventory or a node) Krock: or /clearinv to clear it entirely master: already try shit+click Krock: !mod vehicles MinetestBot: Krock: Advanced Vehicles [adv_vehicles] by Andrey01 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=22777 - https://github.com/Andrey2470T/adv_vehicles Krock: this? master: the only way i found by accident to remove the plane/car from the map is to put the plane on top of fire.... let me die inside of the plane on fire.... revive and then it works master: no the "adv_vehicles" i think that i just have the "vehicles" mod Krock: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15610 this? master: yes Krock: https://github.com/D00Med/vehicles/blob/master/api.lua#L748-L754 master: it is from 2017... maybe the new version of the game crash something on this mod Krock: removable when you're riding it Krock: then punch it, apparently. master: i can only remove during driving ?! Krock: looks like it master: -.- master: it works Krock: line 746 prevents removing it when not riding master: yeap master: thx :) Krock: if you have a github account, feel free to file an issue here: https://github.com/D00Med/vehicles/issues Krock: however, C00Med wasn't that active recently master: From the forum looks like this mod is already on end of life master: no time for more modding looks like TechDude: Hello TechDude: question: Krock: Hello Krock: answer: TechDude: what’s the node name for AIR? Krock: "air" TechDude: Is it so in MineClone2? Krock: most likely TechDude: om ig TechDude: ok* TechDude: Ok......... Krock: OK MinetestBot: 02[git] 04grapereader -> 03minetest/minetest: Add a key to toggle map block bounds (#11172) 1316e5b39 https://git.io/JOwHx (152021-04-20T17:23:31Z) specing: Error: success BuckarooBanzai: master: about the "vehicles" mod from D00Med: he isn't active anymore but does usually accept PR's MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Look for PostgreSQL library properly and fix CI 13a24899b https://git.io/JOwFO (152021-04-20T17:50:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Enable cleanTransparent filter for mipmapping and improve its' algori… 131da7341 https://git.io/JOwF3 (152021-04-20T17:50:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Put torch/signlike node on floor if no paramtype2 (#11074) 1390a7bd6 https://git.io/JOwFs (152021-04-20T17:50:03Z) erlehmann: hey rubenwardy i checked out your classroom mod but i think testing-wise it is not what i mean erlehmann: TechDude air node name is air erlehmann: TechDude what do you want to do with air? rubenwardy: not sure what you mean then rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/classroom/-/blob/master/tests/api_spec.lua erlehmann: TechDude if you want illegal air items ask fleck for 420 stacked air on clam rubenwardy: also https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/conquer/-/tree/master/tests rubenwardy: this has mocks erlehmann: rubenwardy yeah the mocking is very useful and i like your tests, but i realized i need integration and regression tests rubenwardy: you can do that as well erlehmann: well, a recent bug in mcl2 that i fixed was that there was "press a button at the world border and the game crashes" rubenwardy: like, you typically have both unit and integration tests in abig project rubenwardy: eh erlehmann: and i have no idea how to write that test rn erlehmann: i mean, i only need to test the happy case rubenwardy: Dev test has some integration tests, but not like that rubenwardy: they don't require the world, jsut a player erlehmann: so i would neet to script “put a button on the world border” and “press it” and i need a world in that erlehmann: need erlehmann: or in mcl2 right now there are bugs in the map generator so "generate a chunk and make sure that quartz is still being generated" is something where i have no idea how to test erlehmann: so ofc we test it manually erlehmann: to me, the fact that mcl2 devs released 0.71 without quartz generating (because it got lost in a refactoring) means it should probably have this test erlehmann: rubenwardy your test cases were very useful for writing unit tests though! it is just not what i need to prevent regressions with highly interconnected bugs erlehmann: like, bugs that are not limited to one thing erlehmann: the crashbutton for example is related to a missing nul check in mesecons erlehmann: (only in the mcl2 version of mesecons, i checked it) erlehmann: but if i only unit test that, would a person not knowing mesecons believe me if i say it is fixed, from running the test? i would suspect not erlehmann: rubenwardy i am looking at the conquer thing right now, thank you. if you know any mod with good integration tests, please tell. erlehmann: i mean good integration tests for world and mapgen related stuff imi: ok good night Aris: is there a place where I can find the "creative" mod that comes with minetest_game by default? MiniontobyPI: yes MiniontobyPI: games/minetest_game/mods/creative Aris: ah, thanks MiniontobyPI: no problem Aris kingskid_: Hi I'm having trouble with som mods here is a pastbin https://pastebin.com/sFvSZEMJ please help? Jonathon: >juanchi/mods/explosions/init.lua:64: bad argument #2 to 'min' (number expected, got nil) there is your exact error ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood Jonathon: juanchi game mod explosions line 64 in init.lua Jonathon: also looks like your using 5.4 and have a lot of mods that didnt update to 5.4 use_texture_alpha yet kingskid_: ok I'll take all out of mods dir and install 1 at a time grin kingskid_: I'll also try to run regular minetest erlehmann: is anyone here a voxelmanip/mapgen expert? erlehmann: i have code that *looks* correct to me but does not work the way the author or me think it should erlehmann: like some stuff does not show up in the map for some reason sfan5: I can look at it but I can't promise that I'll find the bug ;) erlehmann: sfan5, query Danil_2461: can anyone help Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/833797966095319040/Screenshot_20210419-231233.png Danil_2461: yes it is phone Kimapr: you searched for nothing and got nothing. sounds about right Danil_2461: what Kimapr: so what's the problem? Danil_2461: settings are totally missing Danil_2461: no it is not the searching Danil_2461: please help me Danil_2461: I miss the settings Kimapr: you can still find them at minetest.conf Kimapr: this menu should have worked though Danil_2461: yes but it's too hard to modify them trough here Danil_2461: mhm Danil_2461: minetest.conf is preset q333: report it as a bug big_caballito: hey, how can i disable mobs per world? big_caballito: or is that even possible? big_caballito: oops wrong chan n_to: Hi everyone . I have a short question about translations. I'm atm reviewing german translations for mods and sometimes strings are missing. (both in the .tr files and in template.txt). n_to: Now the question: Is there a script for generating template.txt or are those files maintained manually? n_to: I searched through several wikis and I can't find an answer to this :( n_to: ah, I just stumble upon the dev-tool-page. this might help :) https://dev.minetest.net/Development_Tools kingskid: hi I just got a new lenovo desktop I installed linux Mint 20 on it but the software manger put me on minetest 5.0.1 how do I get the latist Mt? q333: compile it from source yourself q333: wget https://github.com/minetest/minetest/archive/5.4.0.tar.gz kingskid: Thanks MTDiscord Bombo: 5.4.1 is the latest according to topic ;) Bombo: n_to: gut, i noticed that some translations are missing too :) MiniontobyPI: hi tech_exorcist: how can I see a list of blocks defined in a given namespace? VanessaE: iterate through minetest.registered_nodes{} using string.find() or string.match() to search for the namespace you want. MiniontobyPI: for what? tech_exorcist: to see a list of the blocks defined in `default' MiniontobyPI: minetest.register_on_mods_loaded(function() MiniontobyPI: for key, value in pairs(minetest.registered_nodes) do MiniontobyPI: minetest.log(key) MiniontobyPI: end MiniontobyPI: end) tech_exorcist: thanks VanessaE: noooo MiniontobyPI: I used that to get list of node drops tech_exorcist: noooo | ? VanessaE: well actually I guess that works too MiniontobyPI: and randomize them MiniontobyPI: btw yeah how to MiniontobyPI: local pos = player:get_pos() MiniontobyPI: local posst = minetest.pos_to_string(pos) MiniontobyPI: but then round it up to 1 decimal MiniontobyPI: im away MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Isolate library tables between sandbox and insecure env 13623f0a8 https://git.io/JOEzZ (152021-04-18T14:06:42Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: GLES fixes (#11205) 130077982 https://git.io/JOEzP (152021-04-18T14:07:13Z) VanessaE: uh uh. you devs need to rewrite Minetest. Linus Torvalds now says C++ is "a crap language" :) VanessaE: uh oh* sfan5: now? pretty sure he held that opinion for a long time VanessaE: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/21/04/17/009241/linus-torvalds-says-rust-closer-for-linux-kernel-development-calls-c-a-crap-language VanessaE: I guess he's just all enamored with Rust :) specing: Both C and C++ are crap languages. The Ada programming language has been waiting since 1983 for people to care about software safety and is actually used where mistakes are very costly. it even has a gcc frontend => the compiler would stay the same. Krock: he already stated that years ago VanessaE: hm, well that's just slashdot being its usual behind-the-times source I suppose, then :) celeron55: it shouldn't surprise anyone but C++ wasn't chosen because of it being or not being a crap language celeron55: i just liked the library support rubenwardy: Torvalds said that one of the benefits of writing Git in C is keeping C++ programmers away rubenwardy: And yeah, that's usually the case. C++ is a bad language, but does have good library support rubenwardy: Minus the fact that dealing with libraries is painful erlehmann: there was this story about some guys inventing a gun that shoots forwards and backwards simultaneously. as they were disappointed with the number of killings and maimings resulting from it, they went on to invent C and unix. erlehmann: VanessaE everyone who gets bitten by a rustacean rewrites everything in rust i think erlehmann: like i have seen so many projects that were like "X but in rust" hihi erlehmann: (not X11, i mean X as a placeholder) VanessaE: heh calcul0n: maybe a good reason to love c++ is it keeps Torvalds away VanessaE: Krock: replied to your comment on my mapgen issue. bodqhrohro: erlehmann: I was bitten by haskellist once, and now I suffer because I can't simply recompile a tiny program for AArch64; probably I'll have to install the whole Cabal in Termux O_O bodqhrohro: It's gonna be much easier to rewrite the program in some better language. erlehmann: bodqhrohro i was once a developer like you, but then i took a POSIX sh script to the knee erlehmann: maybe a good reason to love c++ is it keeps Torvalds away erlehmann: calcul0n, i question your evaluation skills, a bucket of manure would be able to do that with less complexity! calcul0n: :) imi: hi, for some reason in the latest dev I cannot chat. when I press T the console shows up but I cannot enter text. is that a known bug? seems like I cannot enter any text into any text field. I'm using 5.5-dev with irrlichtMT both of them upgraded to the latest sfan5: OS? keyboard layout? any warning in the log? sfan5: here's an existing report btw https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11190#issuecomment-822036318 sfan5: and a patch you might want to try imi: sfan5: ubuntu 20.04 hungarian keyboard imi: 437d01196 is known _NOT_ to have the issue imi: sfan5: I'll keep that patch in mind, someone suggested git bisect sfan5: 437d01196 is before text input changes so it "bypasses" that source of bugs sfan5: it's pretty much clear which commit caused this (https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht/commit/3ef59028155ba4cab0f734aecb6bdfc2aa90cbf4) imi: ok then bisect isn't neccessary, is it? imi: should I try your patch then? sfan5: it's not mine but please do imi: ok imi: 2 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file source/Irrlicht/CIrrDeviceLinux.cpp.rej sfan5: argh, line endings sfan5: here's a branch https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht/tree/imefix imi: I started to fix by hand. should I just checkout this branch instead? sfan5: would save you time imi: ok imi: this bug is kind of probabilistic. sometimes it does not happen for hours sometimes it happens after just 5 minutes, so I'll let you know if I experience it again imi: do I need to file a bug? sfan5: we already have one open which is likely the same one you're seeing imi: no, this way I cannot chat at all imi: previously it worked sometimes for some amout of time sfan5: hm sfan5: try the resetting to the "imefix1" commit imi: by I cannot chat I mean I cannot enter any text into any text field imi: including the terminal imi: can you help with that? I'm not a very big git wizard :( imi: will git reset --soft HEAD~ do the trick? sfan5: git reset --hard HEAD^ sfan5: (then recompile obviously) imi: obviously sfan5: just tested that patch here, works normally sfan5: you're on the latest minetest commit right? testing an older one is no use imi: HEAD is now at 4719f3c Fix Android build (again) imi: minetest is 0077982fb sfan5: looks correct sfan5: except irrlicht is one commit too far, git reset origin/imefix^ --hard will directly take you to the correct commit imi: I have a strong suspicion that I lose the ability to type the first time I move my mouse in-game with any text field and/or terminal open imi: HEAD is now at e29e327 imefix1 sfan5: hold on, "Falling back to non-i18n input." does not appear in the log, does it? sfan5: because that'd make an important difference imi: unrelated: scrolling is very slow now in 5.5-dev (feels like 1 pixel per wheelclick) imi: where whould I look for it? imi: mt or irrlicht? git log? sfan5: mt when you run it imi: on the console? or where? sfan5: in a terminal if you run it from one imi: ok so stderr/stdout you mean sfan5: yea imi: ok no instances of "i18n" in that output imi: anyhow now I can chat sfan5: so you'd say the issue is now entirely gone? imi: as far as I can tell. it used to be probabilistic, maybe I'll experience it in ~30 minutes, maybe not imi: ok so far my bug is gone imi: so I suspect it's solved sfan5: good to know, thank you for testing patiently imi: ok thanks for the solution :) pinkball0: a beacon mod like minecraft? Sven_vB: does MineClone have that yet? pinkball0: i search for "minetest mineclone beacon" and nothing come out pinkball0: i try to modify SpaghettiToastBook mod on contentdb, but i cannot achive what i need: that the beam pass through objects pinkball0: hello..is there anybody in there.. pinkball0: ? specing: no pinkball0: can you help me with the beacon mod? specing: I have no idea what that is, sorry pinkball0: i try to modify SpaghettiToastBook mod on contentdb, but i cannot achive what i need: that the beam pass through objects m9chele: i'm sick to death of sifting through programming language codes that only inhuman minds programmed for that can understand: i spent half a day to find a solution and nobody helped me. i just wanna create an alternative reality in which i can relax and meditate and where my soul can feel better; i don't wanna compete with other completely strangers m9chele: that i will never meet in real life. i prefer simple things, because they go straight to the source of human existence, instead of complicated ones that make you spend a lot of time for simple things. Jonathon: .....ok then Menchers: wow, breaking compat with upstream irrlicht ! Menchers: this is annoying Menchers: irrlicht has already been ported to openbsd, and the port contains the necessary patches to get it to build and function properly Menchers: now I need to install some custom version of irrlicht, and enough stuff has been moved around that said patches will need manual intervention Menchers: first issue: "linux/joystick.h" doesn't exist when you aren't on linux Menchers: *sigh* tomorrow sfan5: see it as an opportunity to have irrlicht running on openbsd *without* patching now and in the future MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add Esperanto translation (#2739) 13c6171a8 https://git.io/JOBYv (152021-04-17T13:08:37Z) Danil_2461: when i alt+tab the game becomes like this Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/832970283631509544/unknown.png bodqhrohro: Is it possible to steal the contents of locked chests via some mod (preferably technic chests)? bodqhrohro: I only know about a quirk for opening others' iron doors with a pressure plate, which is pretty cheap, surprisingly. bodqhrohro: Pipeworks injectors come as an intuitive solution, but they're intentionally protected against that; any other ideas? specing: bodqhrohro: pipeworks injectors worked for this the last time I tried specing: also TechPack pushers bodqhrohro: specing: thanks, now it's time to lure the admin to install TechPack ;D Nav|C: Trying to build irrlicht, I got error https://ttm.sh/uRK.txt Nav|C: I ran git clone then cd'ed into the dir then cmake . then make specing: Nav|C: #minetest-dev Nav|C: ok specing: also you probably want to checkout 5.4.0 or what was it Nav|C: Isn't world.mt supposed to list all the installed mods but with "= false"? or do I have to manualy add that Pexin: Nav|C: i've found those get added the first time you quit the program after they're installed, but i dont know if that's version-dependent Nav|C: I did ctrl + c the server and started it again Pexin: also i dont think it's world.mt ? maybe that's OS specific Pexin: oh i'm thinking of clientmods Nav|C: not sure how client mods work Pexin: anyway it's likely ctrl-c doesn't shut down properly Nav|C: how else would I do that? Pexin: esc->quit button, or possibly alt-F4 Pexin: oh right. server.. Nav|C: it's running on a server Pexin: guess you better add it manually Swift110-mobile: ar10ch: awesome Bombo: hi Bombo: i got a prob, i added 'wilhelmines animal farm' to the game, and it works on the computer, but on two tablets (android, with 5.4.0) the animals are all white Bombo: no textures Bombo: i would say file permission prob, but i see textures on pc debian client Bombo: hey appguru you know the minetest android app? :) appguru: Bombo: Yes? I rarely use it though. Bombo: appguru: i got a prob, i added 'wilhelmines animal farm' to the game, and it works on the computer, but on two tablets (android, with 5.4.0) the animals are all white Bombo: appguru: any ideas on that? appguru: no, not really appguru: my name is in fact misleading; I don't have much experience with mobile application development Jonathon: try turning shaders off Jonathon: either the models have invalid normal's, or https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9482 again wsor4035: bombo ^ Bombo: mkay Bombo: but wouldn't that be the same on pc version? Bombo: hm it says 'shaders unavailable' everything is disabled in that settings b ox Bombo: maybe thats the problem Bombo: btw is it possible to turn off the retrievinmg of the server list? i just want one manually added server in the list#, (for the kids) LoneWolfHT: Unset serverlist_url Bombo: thx that worked Bombo: .#9 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9 -- OK, Saplings For Real by MarkTraceur Bombo: and i disabled shaders on debian client and wilhelminas animals are all white too Bombo: is it possible to mod the mod to not use shaders? ;) Bombo: where is that defined, in a .lua or in the models/bear.b3d rubenwardy: There's something wrong with your GPU rubenwardy: What platform? Restarting or updating drivers may help rubenwardy: Mods cannot define shaders delta23: sometimes system updates cause minetest to act weird and causes random bugs until reboot. erlehmann: rubenwardy to debug stuff like minecarts, is it a good idea to have a test world with mechanisms? erlehmann: i am asking because i am building one right now Bombo: rubenwardy: but all other modedls have textures Bombo: -d Bombo: just in 'wilhelminas animals' all animals are plain white Bombo: unless i turn shaders on Bombo: which i can't on the android tablets Bombo: (android 10) Bombo: and can't update gpu drivers there Bombo: so i thought maybe it's defined in the models .b3d to use shaders Bombo: and if no shaders are available it gets white Danil_2461: guys why biomes dont generate???? i was making a game and then i went playing hades revisited, i generated a new world in the game i was working on and suddenly the world is just entirely stone????? Danil_2461: and after that in every game there is no biomes Danil_2461: only stone VanessaE: BuckarooBanzai: would you mind updating biome_lib and give it a go, see how it behaves for you (especially how the queue performs) VanessaE: giving* Jonathon: check your minetest.conf settings Jonathon: most likely it does this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11010 Danil_2461: i reset the settings Jonathon: ......and did it work? Danil_2461: nope Danil_2461: it just h rubenwardy: I wonder if something broke with 5.4 that makes game minetest.conf write to global minetest.conf Jonathon: close minetest. rename minetest.conf to something else, restart it BuckarooBanzai: VanessaE: your update is already live and running for a few days already, looks good so far, haven't noticed perf issues in the mapgen area ;) VanessaE: no, I mean now :) VanessaE: as in updated less than an hour ago :) BuckarooBanzai: Oh, new updates? VanessaE: mmhmm BuckarooBanzai: K, i'll wait for the update pipeline to kick in then :) VanessaE: (tag '2021-04-16-2' btw) sfan5: rubenwardy: a quick test can't confirm that sfan5: maybe mapgen settings are different justmyself: there is a beacon mod in which the beam go through nodes like in minecraft? i found the one on contentdb and i try to modify but, after place some on the beacon, the node that i place on top disappear and beam regenerates jordan4ibanez: sorcerykid please for the love of everything merge this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9717 justmyself: no one can help me? :( specing: justmyself: techpack heat ray emitter beams can go through glass iirc specing: as for "like in minecraft": I have no idea, never played that game calcul0n_: justmyself, i think it only affects the node right above it, not those you place higher calcul0n_: (if we're talking about the same mod) justmyself: the mod is the one from SpaghettiToastBook and every block at every position above the beam lock it. i like to find a way to make the beam going through every nodes like. i still try but i cannot doing! calcul0n_: ho, i had another mod in mind then justmyself: which one? justmyself: local function beacon_on_construct(pos, color) justmyself: local above = vector.add(pos, {x = 0, y = 1, z = 0}) justmyself: if get_node_under_light(pos).name == ("beacons:base_" .. color) a̲n̲d̲ ̲m̲i̲n̲e̲t̲e̲s̲t̲.̲g̲e̲t̲_̲n̲o̲d̲e̲(̲a̲b̲o̲v̲e̲)̲.̲n̲a̲m̲e̲ ̲=̲=̲ ̲"̲a̲i̲r̲"̲ then justmyself: minetest.set_node(above, {name = "beacons:light_" .. color}) justmyself: end justmyself: end justmyself: if i remove the underlined part, the upper block disappear and beam get regenerated MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix ignored OpenGLES2 include path and cmake warning 1352c0384 https://git.io/JO8C4 (152021-04-16T21:39:16Z) justmyself: no one can help me? im searching for a beacon mod in which the beam pass through nodes. im already try to modify SpaghettiToastBook one, but i cannot achieve that. Danil_2461: why exactly 5.2? Danil_2461: the latest version is 5.4 why dont you use it Danil_2461: or are you reffering to something else BuckarooBanzai: cheapie: fyi: your tls certs on "cheapiesystems.com" are expired :P MiniontobyPI: so MiniontobyPI: calcul0n_: MiniontobyPI: minetest.override_item("default:stone", drop = {max_items = 1, items = {{items = {"default:iron_ore"}, rarity = 1}}}) MiniontobyPI: this is correct then? calcul0n_: MiniontobyPI, i think the def needs to be in braces calcul0n_: minetest.override_item("default:stone", {drop = {max_items = 1, items = {{items = {"default:iron_ore"}, rarity = 1}}}}) MiniontobyPI: ok MiniontobyPI: letme check MiniontobyPI: 2021-04-15 05:08:55: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down MiniontobyPI: 2021-04-15 05:08:56: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Failed to load and run script from /home/Miniontoby/minetest/mods/testmod/init.lua: MiniontobyPI: 2021-04-15 05:08:56: ERROR[Main]: /home/Miniontoby/minetest/mods/testmod/init.lua:11: Attempt to override non-existent item default:stone MiniontobyPI: 2021-04-15 05:08:56: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: MiniontobyPI: 2021-04-15 05:08:56: ERROR[Main]: [C]: in function 'error' MiniontobyPI: 2021-04-15 05:08:56: ERROR[Main]: /home/Miniontoby/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:398: in function 'override_item' MiniontobyPI: 2021-04-15 05:08:56: ERROR[Main]: /home/Miniontoby/minetest/mods/testmod/init.lua:11: in main chunk MiniontobyPI: calcul0n_: MiniontobyPI: should i let it wait untill the game is loaded? MiniontobyPI: made it an command now calcul0n_: no, it should be used at init time, but your mod should depend on the one which defines default:stone calcul0n_: ie default i guess MiniontobyPI: oh MiniontobyPI: depend = default MiniontobyPI: right MiniontobyPI: its depends calcul0n_: yep MiniontobyPI: it gives an unknow item MiniontobyPI: stupid im too much mc MiniontobyPI: its stone_with_iron calcul0n_: ha, yes MiniontobyPI: lets try MiniontobyPI: for key, value in pairs(minetest.registered_nodes) do MiniontobyPI: if ((string.find(key,"lava") == nil) and (string.find(key,"fire")) == nil and (string.find(key,"water") == nil) and (string.find(key,"air") == nil)) then MiniontobyPI: local itemstacks = minetest.get_node_drops(key) MiniontobyPI: for _, itemname in ipairs(itemstacks) do MiniontobyPI: minetest.log("[drops] "..key.." = "..itemname) MiniontobyPI: end MiniontobyPI: end MiniontobyPI: end MiniontobyPI: this is what i got for my drop logging but first try it dint went well MiniontobyPI: seems to work MiniontobyPI: the drop works MiniontobyPI: now i need all possible drops calcul0n_: make sure you add depends for all the mods you want to avorride then calcul0n_: or use minetest.register_on_mods_loaded(function()) but id don't know what you're allowed to do there MiniontobyPI: i want all mods calcul0n_: so the second option might work, i'm just not 100% sure it does :) MiniontobyPI: minetest.register_on_mods_loaded(function() MiniontobyPI: ye MiniontobyPI: works calcul0n_: ok MiniontobyPI: at least i guess it seems to log it MiniontobyPI: removed doors and all items with numbers MiniontobyPI: butterflies too MiniontobyPI: next up i need to get all these records into an array and randomly let the code pick one and set one MiniontobyPI: switched into two files calcul0n_: some numbered items have drops too, like wheat and cotton iirc MiniontobyPI: ik MiniontobyPI: but i want to avoid them MiniontobyPI: im back soon, thanks fo the help MiniontobyPI: hi MiniontobyPI: is there a way how to get max players allowed in an csm script? MiniontobyPI: and the keybind are still not a thing in the csm right? specing: MiniontobyPI: I don't think the official minetest client supports this, but perhaps dragonfireclient or waspsaliva do MiniontobyPI: ko MiniontobyPI: for now i got an command which you need to use to open the thing which i want to open with an key MiniontobyPI: but yeah MiniontobyPI: i dont want to build anythin MiniontobyPI: btw has ctf_game been fixed with the crashes? specing: MiniontobyPI: the command ... what what? I didn't understand a thing MiniontobyPI: i will tell you MiniontobyPI: im making an adv_csm mod which will get lots of functions, and i now got an .online command, which is the csm version of Bosapara´s online_players mod, but yeah it would be nice to havae it open with tab MiniontobyPI: but yeha for now it will do MiniontobyPI: maybe lua can bind keys specing: as said, those two clients may have this specing: pretty sure it cannot, I think I've tried that already MiniontobyPI: I want fully official minetest MiniontobyPI: not an custom/other version MiniontobyPI: https://github.com/Silverfeelin/Starbound-Keybinds/blob/master/scripts/keybinds.lua MiniontobyPI: maybe this will wokr MiniontobyPI: can i just use require or should i use dofile? MiniontobyPI: i guess dofile VanessaE: dofile is the usual way, unless you turn that ^ code into a standalone mod VanessaE: then you could depend on it via mod.conf MiniontobyPI: idk MiniontobyPI: I need a proper keybind file first MiniontobyPI: that code is for a game called starbound MiniontobyPI: but it might work MiniontobyPI: im gona test it first MiniontobyPI: but yeah standalone mods for my adv_csm is not going to eb the best MiniontobyPI: nope not works MiniontobyPI: why doesn´t minetest has a bind key thing? MiniontobyPI: it had been added to the client mod api thing MiniontobyPI: but it got removed again or so VanessaE: you can change key bindings in the pause menu VanessaE: or via minetest.conf VanessaE: unless you mean to do something like run a function when you press a certain key? VanessaE: (I know virtually nothing about CSM though) MiniontobyPI: yes MiniontobyPI: i want if i press tab then it opens MiniontobyPI: i guess MiniontobyPI: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=233936#p233936 MiniontobyPI: this is a good thing MiniontobyPI: i got an playerlist at public servers now MiniontobyPI: works at ctf server and all others now MiniontobyPI: really nice MiniontobyPI: is there a way to get players skins? MiniontobyPI: could i use optional_depends with csm to use like simple_skins? MiniontobyPI: im bad at positioning formspecs and things jordan4ibanez: ohai miniontoby! MiniontobyPI: hi MiniontobyPI: im awway calcul0n__: i'd rather say formspecs are bad at positioning things :) MiniontobyPI: btw yeah thanks calcul0n__ imi: hi, for some reason in the latest dev I cannot chat. when I press T the console shows up but I cannot enter text (master branch, irrlicht and minetest and minetest game upgraded recompiled tuday). is that a known bug? imi: seems like I cannot enter any text into any text field Krock: imi: are you using Minetest irrlicht? imi: yes imi: (otherwise it wouldn't even compile) Krock: perhaps update it? Krock: and re-compile Krock: perhaps they're out of sync Krock: if that did not help, open an issue here: https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht/issues including your setup and the conditions to reproduce it ar10ch: ugh this webapp is horrible. stuck on windows :( Krock: wat ar10ch: rubenwardy: How do u set up a page like u had on ctf the other day telling users that ur not accepting new players atm ? ar10ch: krock: my machines screwed. setting up win10 on another drive then ill b back to Ubuntu...eventually Krock: 8 GiB rescue dongle to the rescue Krock: got a full-fledged ubuntu installation on a 16 GiB drive. the installation took a few hours, but it's pretty usable in such cases Krock: boot into linux whenever you have access to the boot menu ar10ch: ha summats up since I "upgraded" from Ubuntu 18 to 20. wish I hadn't. still have a locked root fs on Ubuntu and have to set up windows all over again Krock: that's weird ar10ch: its a pain ar10ch: I don't really use windows. once in a while i'll play elite:dangerous. It's the locked Ubuntu thing that winds me up Krock: fsck should solve that I suppose Krock: it's locked for a reason after all ar10ch: probs. from a live stick? Krock: yes ar10ch: aye. I'll give it a go after all this reinstallation nonsense lol Krock: I fear the day when I'd need to reinstall my Windows partition. It's customized to the point where I don't even remember whether it was changed or not Krock: dotfiles for Windows would be emazing ar10ch: haha yeah that would help ar10ch: how do u set that "welcome screen" to tell players that no new players are being accepted? Full disclosure: I'd like to set "invite-only" if things become.... "problematic" Krock: add a server password Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1315-L1318 ar10ch: i saw that. it wont effect players already with accounts? imi: Krock: that's the point was updated earlier today ar10ch: huh? ar10ch: krock: will it effect players already with accounts? dwigton: Is it possible to enable mods on a server for an existing game? dwigton: Turns out it took my kids 3 minutes to reinvent griefing. Krock: ar10ch: no Krock: ar10ch: then bisect Krock: * imi ^ bisect Krock: dwigton: edit world.mt ar10ch: ah thanks krock - whoa, bisect? Krock: ar10ch: sorry, that message is not for you ar10ch: ah.. ar10ch: but it wont effect players already with accounts.. Krock: dwigton: install mods to the mods/ directory of Minetest (NOT games/ !) and add the line load_mod_MODNAME = true to world.mt if you're only working with CLI Krock: otherwise prepare the world configuration in the client Krock: ar10ch: right ar10ch: haha k cool thanks :) dwigton: Krock: thanks. I wasn't sure if doing that would conflict with the sqlite database or something. Krock: dwigton: no. you can always add mods of your liking but disabling them again will eventually result in unknown content in-game Krock: where it might need manual compatibility code to fix it ar10ch: can u advise with server restart scripts... bash or lua? Krock: ar10ch: https://linuxhandbook.com/bash-loops/ Krock: while [ 1 == 1 ]; do minetestserver 2>error_output.log; done Krock: or something like that Krock: though it might be better to also rename debug.txt to keep a history of crash reports Krock: s/1 == 1/true/ ar10ch: i took a pic of the link - ill look at that in a bit - thanks - hold on new pic... imi: Krock: what do you mean by bisect? Krock: imi: git bisect. find the last good build, then build Minetest a few times to figure out the commit that broke it ar10ch: 66%. ugh. feels like a different dimension ar10ch: back in linuxland Swift110-mobile: hey Krock HexBubble: bye guys Danil_2461: ....uhm Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/831759851302420520/unknown.png ar10ch: How do I reject an empty field? Trying to prevent a nil coordinate but seems it defaults to nodes pos if nothing entered (destruction testing phase) rubenwardy: Formspec field? ar10ch: yes formspec rubenwardy: Empty fields will be "" ar10ch: i tried that, i must have cocked it up elsewhere Emojidiscord: BUG REPORT: Minetest chatroom keyboard acts strange makes me hard to type commands. for example, //unmark becomes //unmmrk, etc. ar10ch: ah, indeed i did. fixed it for now Danil_2461: keyboard stuck ubone: bpa.st/QAWQ ubone: error on connect to 5.4.0 server from 5.4.1 client ubone: brb ubone: the server is using luaJIT 2.1.0-beta3 ubone: the client 2.0.5 ubone: is that the issue? sfan5: !tell ubone no, Lua versions don't matter for client/server connections MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when ubone is around wwar: aaa is the new user register screen supposed to be small a bit like this? wwar: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/831935774294409280/Screenshot_2021-04-14-19-46-56.png sfan5: OS? wwar: Android sfan5: ah that's more likely to have bugs TechDude: Hello TechDude: question: TechDude: how do I check the direction a player is going? sfan5: from a mod? TechDude: in this instance I need to check if the player is going down TechDude: yes sfan5: player:get_velocity() sfan5: or player:get_player_velocity() I think if you're on an older version TechDude: Mmh only 5.4.0 is supported anyways justly use player:get_velocity TechDude: So the number returned is a integer describing how fast the player is going? Ok, I can work with that :) Hawk777: TechDude: looks like it’s a vector, not an integer, but should be simple enough. sfan5: it's a vector, like the documentation says TechDude: Mmm I’ll check it ous TechDude: out* specing: Why are there so many people in CatLandia? The server doesen't feel special and the chat is useless with so many people chatting all the time VanessaE: maybe they've just never heard of my servers :) q333: Multicraft specing: VanessaE: you seem to be running a sea of empty servers, at least if the serverlist can be trusted VanessaE: sadly. VanessaE: like you, idk what it is about other servers that makes them so popular, but they're sapping away all my players. that's gotta be why :P hlqkj: who the heck is that voxel-minetest guy now!! my phone is getting spammed by their issue reports!! LMAO AntumDeluge: I'm looking for a way to clear client chat history/console. Is there a command to do so? I haven't figured out where the log file is stored on my system (Windows 10). I have checked Minetest installation, world, home, & %AppData% directories. AntumDeluge: Just figured out that shutting down client & restarting does what I want. Hawk777: I’ve thought about joining a big public server sometime. It’s a bit intimidating, especially with so many mods; seems like it would be hard to get started, compared to a more limited pack where there’s a more obvious starting point. VanessaE, how frequently do you wipe your worlds (if ever)? I tend to prefer not at all, or as rarely as possible. Hawk777: I think it would be fun to have lots of builds by other people around to look at. calcul0n_: on heavily moded servers you generally find nice people to help you getting started calcul0n_: and if you don't, pick the next one :) VanessaE: Hawk777: I generally do not wipe/reset my worlds, unless there's a critical failure i.e. if I have to restore from backup. though there have been a couple of times in the past. VanessaE: rather, if players begin to complain about crowding, I move the spawn. Hawk777: Nice! Might give it a try then. VanessaE: I did reset VE-Creative a few months after it went online because the world had turned to garbage since there were no organized roads and such, but I saved all of the builds worth saving and moved them to the new map with worldedit. VE-Survival some years ago when it seemed like it had lost its appeal, but some time after that I reverted to the old world, and it's been fine ever since. VanessaE: and VE-Traintable has had a bumpy time of it as well (restoring from backups, resets, etc but it's relatively new, and I preserved the builds it had anyway). so in effect, nothing of value has been lost from any of them. Hawk777: Traintable? What’s that about? Mintest Forums search doesn’t seem to find that word anywhere. VanessaE: it's a flat world with foliage, built around advtrains VanessaE: "train table" as in a table you'd put aa model railroad on Hawk777: ah ok, that sounds fun! VanessaE: daconcepts.com 30004 btw Hawk777: Is that one creative or survival? VanessaE: creative Hawk777: (I’m at work right now, shouldn’t really fire up Minetest and go checking things out myself…) VanessaE: runs Dreambuilder Hawk777: Ah, I haven’t ever really gotten into creative stuff. Dreambuilder Survival does not include advanced trains? VanessaE: nope ar10ch: what's the control for the special (e) key? controls.aux ? VanessaE: aux1 I think? ar10ch: controls.aux1 ? ok thanks VanessaE: might be, I forget ar10ch: ah, yes it's aux1 - thanks tech_exorcist: why does F-Droid say "Last updated 10 months ago" on Minetest's page? sfan5: there are complications that cause newer versions to be unable to appear on f-droid tech_exorcist: oh tech_exorcist: what kind of complications? sfan5: f-droid wants everything built from source, we don't have that for Android currently tech_exorcist: oh tech_exorcist: ok TechDude: Hmmm... I think specing just gave away that he’s hanging out in catlandia, also I agree with the useless chat TechDude: (maybe he and leet and bang are there) specing: TechDude: I do not, my tracker just detected vini there specing: and no, leet&bang are on your-land TechDude: Oh TechDude: meh I’ll go back to writing C and studying perlin noise specing: Better study the server list ^^ TechDude: Who wants to *study the server list*? 🤷‍♂️ TechDude: Studying how to do 1+1 is more efficient TechDude: Maybe efficient TechDude: might not be the best word ( TechDude: *hates his keyboard* hisforever: Hi I hope you can help. I only play in creative mode. How can I get rid of the animals attacking me? Jonathon: reprogram the entity, remove its registration(and spawn/other dependent code), or remove the mod tha registers that entity Jonathon: assuming you already checked for a setting hisforever: Thanks I guess I'll just remoce hat mod, I know nothing about codeing in minetest Out`Of`Control: how delete player in 5.2.0? Danil_2461: bridge bad hisforever: Hi I need help https://pastebin.com/LfYj3fht there is the pastbin? hisforever: I'm using the Janchi game I lke it a lot rubenwardy: Ask in the forum topic for juanchi, or the GitHub hisforever: rubenwardy> thanks jordan4ibanez: Was this fixed in the fast math problem? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9346 sfan5: don't think so jordan4ibanez: rip specing: Hmm specing: Why is the minetest day 20 minutes long? specing: Why not one hour? Or something else specing: (I know it is configurable, I'm just asking for the reason behind this default) mmuller: Presumably because Minecraft's is? Ingar: it's a nice and balanced timespan ZombyWoof: Trying to get mobs_redo + mobs_animlas to work, but no luck. minetest ver 5.4.1 and ver 5.1.1 I tried dozens of worlds and used [k] to fly and see if any were spawned, but none has. ZombyWoof: animals* ZombyWoof: Is there a way to check if the mods were loaded properly? Jonathon: yes, do /mods in game ZombyWoof: thanks, seems they are loaded ZombyWoof: This is weird. Been trying this for the whole day and now I ask on this channel and now I see a cow :D It's only one cow though, no other animals. Seems there are very few animals. is there a way to spawn more? Jonathon: there should be spawn eggs Jonathon: and spawners Jonathon: worst case you can just use spawn entity command ZombyWoof: like /spawn sheep ? specing: mmuller: Ingar: I was honestly expecting a better answer :) mmuller: Sorry to disappoint :-) specing: I wonder what it'd be like if most crops took 90+ ingame days to grow, like it is IRL specing: Is there any server that does that? delta23: is anyone else having a strange lag problem with edit box inputs in game and in menu ? delta23: like, walking etc work normally delta23: but in the command/chat area + world name + search boxes etc delta23: it starts lagging (typing lag only) then input in those areas stops working completely delta23: meanwhile walking around still works ok delta23: i tried this on a clean build of minetest git and irrlichtmt and got the same problem on my computer delta23: but my other computer works alright w/ it rubenwardy: What platform? Which Mt version? delta23: rubenwardy: latest git minetest rubenwardy: Ah, so with irrlicht mt delta23: ye delta23: s delta23: ubuntu 20 laptop - input has this problem ; debian 10 - input is fine delta23: *debian 10 pc delta23: ill try checking if going back to an older commit fixes it (before the new input thing) delta23: yeah some older commits don't have this problem delta23: ill try to find which one it is appguru: probably @y5nw's? appguru: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/85163b531f283c52111c3964fd382e4ed1dafeb8 delta23: im testing that commit rn delta23: still compiling though delta23: prev commit works fine delta23: no that commit works fine aswell delta23: i wonder which one is causing this appguru: are you sure that it works fine? delta23: yes delta23: im comparing it to the latest git appguru: because it is pretty much the only input-related change, aside from the switch to IrrlichtMt delta23: which almost immediately the input stops changing delta23: well there's only 7 commits left to check delta23: jumped ahead to test out commit 0abc1e9 delta23: to save time delta23: how odd delta23: none of the commits including the latest when using git checkout seem to have this problem delta23: however when i do git clone delta23: the problem appears delta23: so idk will probably need more investigation on my part MinetestBot: 02[git] 04benrob0329 -> 03minetest/minetest: Also return the ObjectRef from minetest.spawn_falling_node() (#11184) 13a106bfd https://git.io/JOO8I (152021-04-13T18:02:43Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Attachments: Avoid data loss caused by set_attach() in callbacks (#11… 13bbe1203 https://git.io/JOO8L (152021-04-13T18:02:18Z) minetest: !up vazon-minigames.minetest.land:30008 MinetestBot: vazon-minigames.minetest.land:30008 is up (97ms) (IPv4) HexBubble: !up vazon-minigames.minetest.land:3008 MinetestBot: vazon-minigames.minetest.land:3008 seems to be down (IPv4) HexBubble: !up vazon-minigames.minetest.land:3008 MinetestBot: vazon-minigames.minetest.land:3008 seems to be down (IPv4) HexBubble: !up vazon-minigames.minetest.land:30008 MinetestBot: vazon-minigames.minetest.land:30008 is up (94ms) (IPv4) HexBubble: Hello AntumDeluge: Hi there. Is there a way to get my local server to announce to clients on my network, without having to announce to servers.minetest.net? AntumDeluge: I only want local clients to connect. AntumDeluge: *local network clients... AntumDeluge: E.g., I'd like the local server name to be displayed in the server list when a player wants to join a game. AntumDeluge: Everything I have found in the documentation so far only talks about pointing to servers.minetest.net. Warr1024: You'd have to run your own instance of the server list. It's open source, like the rest of the project. This is probably not gonna be worth the trouble though. Warr1024: You'd also have to configure each client to use the local server list. Warr1024: Better to just have your clients enter the local host connection info directly. AntumDeluge: Okay, thanks Warr1024 Nav|C: Logs in order, illicht then minetest: https://0x0.st/-TV0.txt https://ttm.sh/uK4.txt Emojidiscord: [FOWARD FROM DISCORD] https://monitoring.minetest.land/d/YUpouLmWk/lua-server-monitoring-mod?orgId=1&refresh=5s&var-instance=C%26C%20City%20Server why My server cannot get per-mod usage but pandorabox does? Nav|C: Here is compile h thingi too https://foxes.are.allowed.org/13af.txt Nav|C: Very clearly says minetest sfan5: Nav|C: sounds like it found the wrong headers, try with -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=/usr/local/include/irrlichtmt and -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=/usr/local/lib/libIrrlichtMt.a sfan5: btw CMakeCache.txt would've been useful to pastebin Nav|C: sorry, idk anything about cmake, I useualy just ./Configure && make && sudo make install sfan5: sure no worries Nav|C: sfan5: does sudo apt remove minetest also remove the default game? I think its missing sfan5: I would expect it to sfan5: you can fix that by cloning https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game in the right place Nav|C: Can I install https://content.minetest.net/packages/Minetest/minetest_game/?protocol_version=39 from contentdb? or do I need to also build that from source Nav|C: oh ok just a simple clone sfan5: hmm good point, I don't know if content db installation works for the default game Nav|C: I get 1 warning but else then that everything seems fine, thank you so much Nav|C: 2021-04-12 10:26:30: WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: Could not create ITexture, texture needs to have a non-empty name. Nav|C: just fyi Nav|C: well imma play some minetest now! don_flymoor: I recently tried using ReShade to add more shaders to Minetest, and if turned out looking really nice. I think it would be beneficial to provide instruction to use ReShade with Minetest in the wiki, and maybe to provide a bundled version of minetest with ReShade added in the releases. Nav|C: Hello, what is minetest servers thread best? is it single thread or multi thread, is there any server owners here then please share your expirence and what cpu and performance you get rubenwardy: Most of the work is on a single thread, with threads being used for mapgen rubenwardy: So you want high single core performance, but also more than one core to rubenwardy: More than one core also has the benefit of stopping system processes from taking away time Nav|C: Thank you, I'll let em know Nav|C: rubenwardy: is this high logical core count or does it also work with the virtual cores, I belive the tecnical term is threads but I could be wrong Warr1024: You mean like a hyperthreading kind of thing? Ideally you'd want to have at least 2 physical cores, but probably HT is better than not HT if you've only got 1 or 2 cores... Warr1024: Generally a smart OS will allocate threads across physical cores first, and then pack them into the virtual cores that share a physical core only when those run out. Cybille: Hello everybody remihacker5: hello remihacker5: what brings you to #minetest Nav|C: remihacker5: well I ran the /join command, that worked pretty well Cybille: I have Play Minetest for a while, even begin make Mods remihacker5: cool Cybille: its like everywhere, lots to do and not en off time of the ones for the ones that know how to do it Cybille: The Game was good, but gaming not me thing. Programming not my interest at the moment ... So i try to Help/Clean/Clear IRC rubenwardy: what mods have you been making? remihacker5: yeah im interested to see what you have made Cybille: Adjustment/Balancing of Recipie and new little new Stuff for beginning DivideByZero: Anyone want to check out my mod? Are we allowed to post them here? rubenwardy: sure DivideByZero: You've already seen it Ruben, but I don't think others have. DivideByZero: https://github.com/Git-Forked/ouch rubenwardy: ha nice gitgub username DivideByZero: :) DivideByZero: Unfortunately it was not allowed on ContentDB because it is a client side mod. Cybille: Then new MapGen, Script for "Show/Change" everything "onGame", FormSpecs and Check other Mods to Learn till me Head Blow Up DivideByZero: I'll likely try to reproduce it as a server side mod eventually, so it can be included. DivideByZero: It was my first attempt at making a mod for Minetest though. And my first Lua script. Spent about 2 days making. One day learning Lua syntax, and the other programming. DivideByZero: I believe it to be somewhat original, albeit simple. Cybille: Try the Devloper Chest for everything, lots of good example and ideas for everything + Doc/lua_api.txt as compendium DivideByZero: I didn't need any of that. It was easy enough to figure out. DivideByZero: It wasn't my first time programming, just my first time using Lua. I've been programming as a hobbyist in many other languages for 27 years. DivideByZero: I was happy to be able to contribute a small peice of code to the Minetest community. Cybille: The Possibilities to add and change everything inside MineTest war very big ... Have Fun DivideByZero: Thanks. DivideByZero: Ruben Wardy: I have an idea for the ContentDB, if it's not hard to implement. A button to bookmark/`save for later` that can be clicked on mods one finds interesting and wants to come back and check out further in the future. DivideByZero: And a page of all the saved items displayed in a grid. rubenwardy: Wouldn't be too hard to do, but I'm not personally interested in implementing it DivideByZero: ok. Nav|C: DivideByZero: Bookmarks a build into the browser... Calinou: don_flymoor: I doubt bundling third-party software with the Windows release will happen, people may tend to see it as unwanted software Calinou: also, reshade tends to be a relatively high-end feature, so not all players will be able to benefit from it anyway appguru: @d rename yourself, you're breaking the bridge Jonathon: fixed Emojidiscord: Can I bypass the node register limit? More info: uname -a: Linux this-is-my-hostname.example.com 5.8.0-48-generic #54~20.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Sat Mar 20 13:40:25 UTC 2021 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux MT version: Minetest 5.4.0 (Linux) Using Irrlicht 1.8.4 Using LuaJIT 2.1.0-beta3 BUILD_TYPE=Release RUN_IN_PLACE=0 USE_CURL=1 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 STATIC_SHAREDIR="/usr/share/minetest" MTDiscord: STATIC_LOCALEDIR="/usr/share/locale" ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/54 -- . Emojidiscord: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/830602630036193300/unknown.png rubenwardy: Answered on Discord Splyncryth_: https://i.imgur.com/OTdhEGi.mp4 TechDude: Hello TechDude: i have a modding question: TechDude: how do you detect when a player is jumping? TechDude: is there a register on jump land or something? Because I could really use it Warr1024: There's no guaranteed way to detect. You can check for the jump control being pressed, and if you want to catch only successful jumps, you can check for them actually having left the ground. Pexin: falling, ascending, or the specific moment when they push jump? TechDude: umm falling I guess Warr1024: All player movement happens client-side, so a big lag-spike and you could miss arbitrarily large sections of it. TechDude: when the player who jumps touches a node with the bottom of their feet - argh this is annoying TechDude: umm one sec lemme check Warr1024: So like a pressure plate triggering kinda thing? That's not so bad if you're okay with it triggering if they walk onto it too Warr1024: Or if you're okay with a little uncertainty, I guess. Pexin: on_step = function(self, dtime, moveresult) TechDude: I’d like only jump I’m thinking Warr1024: players don't have an on_step, and thus don't have a moveresult, do they? IIRC that was only for ents. Pexin: dang Warr1024: The only way I can think of it is to watch the velocity of each player on globalstep, and keep track of which players are "falling" by a certain minimum speed. Then, check if the player's feet are touching the thing, and if they are, make sure they're either falling, or were falling the previous tick. TechDude: Mmm I’ll try this out TechDude: hey specing Pexin: it may be useful to see how the ...uh, scaffolding mod? i dont know what it's called. how that works Pexin: construction crane Pexin: probably that only checks player position though, just a thought. TechDude: Argh search_social: Hello, I am trying to run minetest on windows 10, it worked fine before, but now nothing happens when I double-click the app. I tried opening a powershell and running bin/minetest, the command instantly completes with no output. I tried running bin/mintest --garbage and it prints normal usage information. I tried running bin/minetest --verbose and it also exits instantly with no output. Danil_2461: cursed minetest Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/830752287050694676/unknown.png sfan5: search_social: which version worked before and which doesn't work now? sfan5: I think we've had this problem before though, did you check if Windows Defender is somehow interfering? MiniontobyPI: hi MiniontobyPI: how to overwrite settings from an block? MiniontobyPI: i want to edit the node drops MiniontobyPI: and how to get all drops in the game (including drop less register_node blocks?) calcul0n__: MiniontobyPI, you can use minetest.override_item(name, redefinition) calcul0n__: where redefinition is a node def with only the fields that you want to change calcul0n__: and i don't know about node drops, iirc it's complicated because there are many ways to handle them MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Buildbot changes to allow out-of-tree builds (#11180) 134d0fef8 https://git.io/JOILJ (152021-04-11T15:10:06Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Modifying fall damage via armor group (#11080) 134b8209d https://git.io/JOILU (152021-04-11T15:09:37Z) aieiebrazof9: i'm an ordinary beginner who, in search of something, searched everywhere (wiki, forums etc..): trying various mods, modifying lua files, using parts of one together with parts of another. in the end, to my enormous satisfaction (since i don't have the slightest idea of programming!), i succeeded (after many hours!). and i want to share it with aieiebrazof9: everyone! aieiebrazof9: i've created a very simple mod that generates an air-only world with a single level (at 0) of obsidian (editable, of course). at first it seems stuck, but that's because it has to load that level. and the starting point is exactly 0, 0, 0. wait for exit the world the first time (for loading some chunks). the use the folder number 2, for keep the aieiebrazof9: world conditions. i make another little mod also: i called "obsidian skyblock". its an another singlenode with a obsidian block at 0, 0, 0. after exit the first time, like the other, use folder 2. sorry if its so cumbersome! and sorry for my english! after all this, i want to thank perttu from the bottom of my heart for creating this wonderful game aieiebrazof9: and making it free. and i also thank the countless players who continue to expand it day after day just out of passion. this is the link: leopard.hosting.pecon.us/dl/mttsk sfan5: you might want to post it on the forums too specing: hmm, why only 1 node floor of obsidian? aieiebrazof9: its not a "professional" work..i made just because i prefer to create world from scratch..thats why i love crafting in creative way..i never play online, because im a lone wolf! but i must thank to all the people who make this masterpiece possible for free and with almost unlimited possibility... Elektrika: hmmm why is everyone a bot here... aieiebrazof9: im not a bot, im human! :) Elektrika: same lol Jonathon: its a bot relaying messages from irc Elektrika: ohhh ok.. aieiebrazof9: im just here for share my beginner hard work of almost half day!! see up for more explanations. leopard.hosting.pecon.us/dl/mttsk SX: "im not a bot, im human! :)" - every bot I've seen always tries to tell that :p Jonathon: lol Elektrika: XD aieiebrazof9: sorry, i made a mistake. its the first time here :D aieiebrazof9: anyway im real a human. also because i make mistakes! Elektrika: AI's do too lmao aieiebrazof9: a bot made mods by itself? without someone who stay on a tablet for hours closed in his home? Elektrika: possible yes lmao aieiebrazof9: however im going to eat. in italy its dinner time. this is the link to my tiny mods: leopard.hosting.pecon.us/dl/mttsk. thanks to the Creator of game and to all the real modders. im just a newbie! bye :) Nav|C: Why does minetest say it is wrong irrlicht when I literly just built it from source jordan4ibanez: You must use the custom irrlicht jordan4ibanez: https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht jordan4ibanez: sudo make install it, I believe Nav|C: I did... thats what I said Warr1024: 5.4 and earlier require regular irrlicht, 5.5 and newer require MTified irrlicht. The switch was mad at some point in the 5.5-dev stream. Danil_2461: guys, is there a way to make a tiling background menu image? to create a background like in old versions of mc sfan5: !op sfan5: out now >> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/tag/5.4.1 VanessaE: there's no 5.4.0->5.4.1 changelog VanessaE: (but there's a link to the 5.3->5.4 log) sfan5: yes sfan5: we didn't have one either for 5.1.1 IIRC VanessaE: just noting. VanessaE: anything server-side that makes it worth updating from 5.4.0? sfan5: yes, anticheat VanessaE: which commit VanessaE: oops sfan5: better list of them here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11166/commits VanessaE: why do I not show a tag for this... VanessaE: meh, git's just being stupid and not showing it VanessaE: DB and my client updated. servers will update tomorrow morn. VanessaE: (or next time one of them crashes :P ) * iamweasel: yawns Out`Of`Control: minetest_game 5.2 does not work with server 5.4. Something changed in default? Out`Of`Control: mobs mod and default made trigger all kind of crashes. Downgrading 5.4 server to 5.2 no more crashes. Jonathon: you should run minetest_game and minetest_engine at the same version dwigton: Trying to set up a server in an LXC container. I am getting "Failed to bind socket" I enabled port 30000 in ufc and also tried disabling ufc altogether. No change. Krock: dwigton: I think another application is already using the socket Krock: or the port, to be precise dwigton: Krock: There isn't anyother application... that I know of. since this is an lxc container minetest is all I have installed. dwigton: unless it is running minetest twice somehow. Krock: well, I'd suspect that. alternatively remove the binding IP setting from minetest.conf. binding to 0.0.0.0 or [:::] will work just fine dwigton: Not sure I understand that one. I set the bind_address to the ip that I have set for the container. Isn't that correct? Krock: comment that line (#) and the issue might resolve by itself dwigton: I tried that and it just said it was listening on 0.0.0.0:30000 before failing in the same manner. Krock: oh that's weird. it's supposed to work that way just fine sfan5: sounds like port 30000 is somehow occupied sfan5: strace -f -e socket,bind minetestserver should tell you the exact thing that fails dwigton: huh weird 30004 seems to work. I have no idea what else would be on 30000 Krock: htop might reveal a second minetest instance dwigton: huh? there is one running as root and one running as Debian+- dwigton: does minetestserver run on startup? dwigton: hmm it must. just restarted the instance. sfan5: it's possible that debian enables the service by default dwigton: Seems so. Now the trouble just becomes trying to connect to it. :-p dwigton: Connection timed out. hmm. I can ping the server and it seems to be running. But can't connect. dwigton: Thanks all. Got it working. ar10ch: Yes! ar10ch: fixed it * cheapie: offers to nibble on it until it's broken again ar10ch: haha it'll be broken by morning lol ar10ch: oh no, i didn't fix it. oh bugger DivideByZero: Does anyone use SkinsDB & downloaded all the skins? Have you noticed long server load times by doing this? DivideByZero: Is there instructions somewhere for how to interpret the /profiler data? I'm trying to figure out why my server is slow to start up or when clients connect, particularly Android clients which often timeout trying to connect. DivideByZero: Else is there someone knowledgable with it who is willing to take a look at my profile*.txt ? sfan5: slow startup is solely due to what mods do at startup (duh), slow to connect should be mostly time spent in media transfer unless mods do something weird rubenwardy: on Android, it's due to network packet issues DivideByZero: In my log file the biggest delay in startup is occuring right after 'map' mod loaded (which I guess must be a build in part, because I didn't install any mods called 'map'. But I don't think it's the 'map' itself, but whatever occurs right after that, and it doesn't show anything happening for a while, it just seems to hesitate for a while seemingly doing nothing, although it may in fact be doing something and just not showing it in the verbose DivideByZero: log or STDOUT. sfan5: rubenwardy: I thought those only affect aarch64 sfan5: hm well we're forced to ship aarch64 on the play store aren't we? rubenwardy: right, which is what Google Play will be giving to most Android devices rubenwardy: yeah sfan5: DivideByZero: the verbose log prints times for every mod after it's done, are you looking at those? DivideByZero: yes, and they all seem acceptable times. DivideByZero: Whatever part is causing it, doesn't seem to tell me. DivideByZero: I was trying the /profiler sfan5 that you recommended to someone else to try in the forum. DivideByZero: But I also don't see anything listed in there that shows it taking a big time either. DivideByZero: I do see a couple longer times but they have a `-` in front of them, I don't know what that means. Looks like a negative number, but it likely means something else. DivideByZero: I put it up here if anyone could take a peak at it (the profiler data): https://pastebin.pl/view/0232b4ca DivideByZero: Thank you. Andrew__: I don't get how "ardunio" can just hack in and DESTROY spawn VanessaE: more likely the spawn, whatever it is, isn't properly protected, or that user has elevated privileges Andrew__: That user got the SERVER account Andrew__: Ouch, the owner of the world gave a empty password to SERVER. What the hell VanessaE: I'd call that elevated privileges. Andrew__: yup appguru: /setpassword SERVER correct horse battery staple appguru: /kick SERVER VanessaE: so no hacking happened. you just have an idiot admin :) Andrew__: :\ Andrew__: Yup :\ VanessaE: :) * VanessaE: changes appguru's password to Tr0ub4dor appguru: is hacked VanessaE: (too lazy to look up the xkcd to check the spelling ;) ) Andrew__: well turns out that they deleted the whole map Andrew__: Compiling minetest 5.4 on a raspberry pi, irrlicht does not get found Andrew__: http://ix.io/2VuN appguru: 1. Clone Minetest's Irrlicht fork appguru: 2. Compile it VanessaE: 5.4.0 doesn't use the MT fork appguru: oh sfan5: yeah just apt-get install libirrlicht-dev and try again VanessaE: or doesn't *need* it anyway Andrew__: oh, thx Andrew__: Wait, it's a raspberry pi sfan5: you want a client to run on there right? Andrew__: No, a server, so i dont get why irrlicht is necessary appguru: headers sfan5: it's not, well not entirely sfan5: in that case you can in fact clone https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht and then point -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR= to there plus /include sfan5: (and make sure to use -DBUILD_CLIENT=FALSE) Andrew__: ah Andrew__: DBUILD_CLIENT=FALSE is what i need Andrew__: but seems that the old version in the raspbian repos start working * Andrew__: compiles directly on a Pi rather than cross-compiling Andrew__: Is there a way to version-control the map Andrew__: git doesn't diff binaries VanessaE: use level db for the map database and take backups periodically sfan5: particularily with leveldb incremental backups work VanessaE: mmhmm appguru: Postgres should support history too * Andrew__: doesn't use postgres though Andrew__: Compiling stuff on a RPi takes a long time Andrew__: i Andrew__: done! y Andrew__: thanks Andrew__: I wonder how people could delete the whole map? appguru: With server privs it's not that hard appguru: Using clearobjects you can get rid of all items, mobs etc quickly appguru: And using deleteblocks, you can get rid of everything else Wuzzy: Any JT2 players here? jordan4ibanez: Does minetest on raspberry pi have goto capabilities? jordan4ibanez: Like goto continue Warr1024: I mean, insofar as I could tell you where you could goto with a question like that, I guess...? sfan5: you mean Lua? that depends on whether you build with luajit jordan4ibanez: ah okay thank you jordan4ibanez: Will "goto" ever be supported in non-luajit versions? rubenwardy: no, because we depend on Lua 5.1 Warr1024: You essentially can't safely use it in a mod even if JIT allows it anyway sfan5: IIRC the issue wasn't that we couldn't move to Lua 5.2 but that luajit doesn't provide exactly the 5.2 feature level jordan4ibanez: Oh crap appguru: Just use a local function jordan4ibanez: How am I supposed to program in "goto" as a local function? rubenwardy: I've never needed to use a goto rubenwardy: try rephrasing your code sfan5: you never need to use anything rubenwardy: splitting out code into another function can help rubenwardy: Lua is missing continue much more than goto jordan4ibanez: I'm using it to write cleaner code, but this means that some things are available in only half the versions of the builds available Warr1024: The cost of an extra function call should be tolerable under JIT, especially if you're encapsulating your nested loops all in that function, which you'd be doing if you felt the need to escape them all. jordan4ibanez: So testing on the same system with the same build with different compiler settings in the same code can crash oh shit Warr1024: If you ever figure out a way to use goto to write cleaner code, you should publish. jordan4ibanez: This actually isn't the point anymore warr Warr1024: I almost ran into a performance inversion between JIT and PUC that was significant enough that it would have compelled me to detect which one and swap out code based on that ... but it turned out not to be reliable under different system loading. jordan4ibanez: There is not feature parity, which I have to test using non-jit builds from now on then test them into the jit build Warr1024: sure ... or just remember the handful of features that don't have parity and don't use them. sfan5: apart from goto it's a some obscure stuff, doubt you're using them accidentally Warr1024: I was apparently local-testing using PUC and running my servers on JIT for a couple years and didn't even notice until I tried to test for JIT... Warr1024: other than the "apart from goto" part, yeah sfan5: I looked it up and the most relevant change 5.1 to 5.2 probably is the removal of getfenv and setfenv appguru: Don't take those away from me Kimapr: yes take those away from you Kimapr: iirc you can set the _ENV variable to change the environment of a block of code Danil_2461: what are ColorStrings? Kimapr: setfenv can do very dangerous things and you shouldn't use it normally appguru: well it accepts a stack level, which is kinda dirty appguru: I could live with _ENV though VanessaE: BuckarooBanzai: Please test biome_lib commit d06ab90e . You shouldn't notice much if any change in-game but in the background, you'll find better old-block timeout control, and from the terminal/cmd prompt, better block log reporting, especially at shutdown. VanessaE: others: it's in the Content Store and Dreambuilder as of ~5 mins ago. VanessaE: or at least it *should* behave better, if I did my job right :P MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update Android build config 1357218aa https://git.io/JOvQO (152021-04-09T19:16:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Don't reseed stars when changing star count 13e89e6c8 https://git.io/JOvAn (152021-04-09T20:33:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix server favorites not saving when client/serverlist/ doesn't exist… 130abc1e9 https://git.io/JOvAa (152021-04-09T20:36:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update German builtin translation 13a0e7a4a https://git.io/JOvAw (152021-04-09T20:34:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update builtin locale files 138c7e214 https://git.io/JOvAr (152021-04-09T20:34:18Z) TechDude: Hi TechDude: i have a question TechDude: is it possible to create a new world from the command line? TechDude: If I could give the world a seed, that would be even better Glorfindel: I'm pretty sure, yes. windows? Calinou: --worldname some_world_that_doesnt_exist Calinou: that creates a new world if it doesn't exist Calinou: as for specifying the seed, not sure if you need to do it in minetest.conf, or even by modifying some configuration file in the world folder Calinou: (after the world is created, so you have to manually clean up all the already-generated mapblocks somehow) cheapie: Calinou: --worldname just gives an error if the world doesn't exist - seems that you have to use --world and specify the full path to a nonexistent world if you want to actually create one. cheapie: As far as deleting all generated mapblocks go, you can just delete the map DB file and it'll create a new one when started next. Viper: Hi, converted player backed to sqlite, now on startup i get ==> /!\ You are using old auth file backend. This backend is deprecated and will be removed in a future release /!\ MisterE: so i run a newly build minetest on openbsd MisterE: I get this error MisterE: 2021-04-07 17:10:54: ERROR[Main]: Failed to get paths by executable location, trying cwd MisterE: 2021-04-07 17:10:54: ERROR[Main]: Game specified in default_game [minetest] is invalid. MisterE: 2021-04-07 17:10:55: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec MisterE: and the server doesnt run Viper: MisterE: what is folder name in minetest/games/????? <== MisterE: actually, I just figured it out MisterE: The other errors are not a big deal; I had to specify a gameid MisterE: Thank you :) Viper: yw MisterE jordan4ibanez: Are the floatlands enabled in v7 mapgen yet? Andrew__: what does staff of light in ethereal do RetroBoy64: Hello everyone, how do I make it so more mobs spawn on the world? RetroBoy64: I have mods installed by the way Andrew__: RetroBoy64: They just spawn. Note that the "mobs" mod only provides a API for mobs, you need something like "mobs_monster" to make the actual mob entities. RetroBoy64: I have mobs animals as well RetroBoy64: But I rarely ever see them on the world, it's not like mod doesn't work either, becaue on the creative mod I can spawn mods all day Andrew__: hmm weird Andrew__: whats your worldgen RetroBoy64: let me take a look RetroBoy64: how do I view the world gen (seed)? There is no visible option on the menu RetroBoy64: They are a bit more common on water but I almost never see them on land RetroBoy64: Should I come back later andrew? Andrew__: idk :\ Andrew__: I have a problem with 185.57.229.162 who is trying to hack my server IhrFussel: Is it one of those auto bots that try to brute force access via ssh? Andrew__: No, they accessed via MT not ssh IhrFussel: How do you know this? It's much more likely that one of your mods is missing some kind of check if you mean the world was modified or admin items/commands were used ar10ch: in a formspec, can field values be locked so that only privileged users can change them? like by pressing a button to lock / unlock and checking player privs at that stage? Warr1024: I'm pretty sure you get to decide what formspec elements to send to a player and can determine which fields to make actually editable at that time. Warr1024: Keep in mind that players can modify formspec responses arbitrarily, including completely forging entire responses, so you can't trust them and need to fully validate them when received server-side. ar10ch: Warr1024: ok thanks, it occurs to me to have a button to a "2nd page" and check the privs at that point Sokomine: ar10ch: you can send a specific formspec to each user. in that you can offer whatever options you want. but: never trust what the user sends to the server. always check user input Sokomine: oh. warr1024 replied already ar10ch: Sokomine: thanks :) Sokomine: well. question of my own: has a mod for "chatting" with npc (rpg-like dialogs) be written by now? i planned to do so - but had very little time (still trying to catch up with the forum) Warr1024: Using the "formspec" metadata on a node does not give you the opportunity to do the checks, but you can do things like handling the right-click server-side in that case. I think there MAY be a network delay cost to that, but I would think that should be rarely an issue in practice. Sokomine: yes, if you set the metadata and let the client do all the showing of the formspec then it's usually faster - but you have no choice as to what to show to the specific user. what is better depends on the situation. if it has to be specific, send a specific formspec to the user. otherwise don't. i'm still highly unpleased about the change where locked chests got made "secret" and thus got horribly slow Sokomine: and unusable for me on many servers DS-minetest: Sokomine: I've seen npc chatting on the Your Land server Sokomine: oh. that sounds nice. havn't visited that one ar10ch: A while ago I thought about using robots as "tutors", picking out keywords in input strings, so something along the lines of npc-chatting sounds great. ar10ch: I dont know how to send "personalised" formspecs yet, but if it works - then probably hiding the fields part of the formspec behind a priv-checking button should suit the use-case Sokomine: i'm thinking more along the line of old point and click adventures where you can select one option. not them spamming chat or trying to react to freely typed sentences ar10ch: ah ok ar10ch: Ah i know what u mean now Warr1024: I had briefly toyed with the idea of formspec dialog, but I really hated the way it blocked the 3D scene behind it, I had rather little control over how formspecs were laid out on screen dependent on dimensions, and controlling the scene was problematic in general. Warr1024: Some time I might want to play around with a formspec-less approach though, e.g. using tangible items or ents in 3D space for speaking, and maybe just floating ents or even waypoint HUDs for listening... Sokomine: warr1024: the blocking out of the 3d scene will remain. there's a bit more control over how formspecs are laid out now. it became possible to write such chats some time ago erlehmann: hey i just want your attention. in every version of mesecons you can put a button at the world border to crash the server. https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues/1494 erlehmann: the issue contains a fix Hawk777: Maybe that should be reported to Mesecons? erlehmann: i reported it to mineclone2 Hawk777: Also, is it only buttons, or anything else? erlehmann: but it was marked as UNCONFIRMED Hawk777: And two hours later someone confirmed it. erlehmann: no, one developer of minclone2 (jordan4ibanez) now uses it to crash servers instead of fixing it erlehmann: he uploaded a video to youtube even of repeatedly crashing a server people are on erlehmann: he just put a button on the world border and kept pressing it erlehmann: the issue is still unconfirmed DS-minetest: link or it didn't happen Hawk777: Sure the unconfirmed *label* is there, but the confirmation message from cora is also *only three hours old*. sfan5: I guess fast travel is viable in MCL2 since getting to the world border via normal means is quite a feat in MTG? erlehmann: sfan5, 7 minutes via nether erlehmann: https://youtub.be/IR44kDUxSQQ (from their discord) sfan5: !title MinetestBot: urllib.error.URLError: (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/urllib/request.py", line 1327, in do_open) sfan5: uh oh sfan5: weird erlehmann: sorry erlehmann: it is this https://youtu.be/IR44kDUxSQQ erlehmann: typo erlehmann: so yeah erlehmann: this developer in particular has commit rights to master branch erlehmann: and *could* review the fix DS-minetest: !title MinetestBot: No title found. DS-minetest: !title https://youtu.be/IR44kDUxSQQ MinetestBot: No title found. sfan5: yeah it's broken erlehmann: so i just want to warn all of you erlehmann: if you have mesecons or mineclone2 erlehmann: pull the fix Hawk777: Is there a reason you don’t want to report the issue to Mesecons? Warr1024: https://xkcd.com/242/ erlehmann: and DO NOT rely on mcl2 devs to fix it erlehmann: Hawk777 i have reported the issue to a project and devs started abusing it instead of fixing it Hawk777: Well if you don’t report the issue to Mesecons, how can you expect the Mesecons devs to fix it? Warr1024: If the devs wanted to be able to exploit their own code instead of fixing it, you'd think they could have just added an actual back-door anyway. ar10ch: yeah but do the mineclone "redstone" buttons do the same thing? erlehmann: look whatever you report it erlehmann: its a fork with different skins erlehmann: so don't worry Hawk777: I’m busy right now. I’m not going to take the time to try and repro the bug to check whether it happens with Mesecons or only Mineclone, and then make a ticket about it. It sounded like you cared a lot about the issue, so I thought you would care enough to report it to Mesecons (especially if Mineclone just forks Mesecons, it would be easier on both parties if the fix came from upstream). DS-minetest: I find it quite sad that every attempt to replicate redstone in minetest that I've seen so far just uses mesecons and changes the textures. afaik mesecons and redstone are very different, redstone doesn't even have the same concept of conductors Warr1024: Chances are good there are related bugs as well, like different kinds of input controls or devices that cause crashes near the map border, too. It's awfully rare to run into a "forgot that ignores can be within reach of players" kinds of bugs that's not part of a whole class of bugs... Hawk777: Maybe if I remember on the weekend I might try it out. Or I might forget about it by then. Hawk777: It doesn’t really affect me personally; I play on a closed-group server and we’re nowhere near the map border anyway. Warr1024: Said jordan4ibanez actually had a rather impressively redstone-esque redstone remake of his own in Crafter... DS-minetest: ah, right, I've forgot that one. though I've never seen it in-game, and I found it weird how it modified the abm timer settings, urgh. Warr1024: NodeCore's nc_optics does a decent job capturing the original spirit of MC's redstone but the actual mechanics of it are quite different. Warr1024: You can't really do something quite like redstone using ABMs anyway. The original stuff ran on a 20Hz fixed step. NC optics run at 12Hz. Most of the rest that I've seen do stuff either instantaneously or after like a full second delay. DS-minetest: I guess I should try out nc in creative then some time. on that one nc server, I only came so far to produce glass, no more Warr1024: producing glass is very close to what you need to do optics Warr1024: i.e. you just need to produce the right kind of glass (depends on how you cool it) and then chip/chop that glass into optic components. DS-minetest: yeah, the chip/chop thing is the problematic part here erlehmann: look erlehmann: there is only one single bug Warr1024: you'd need fairly high-tier tools for it at least. erlehmann: the function that depowers the world border erlehmann: does not check for getting nil erlehmann: from the ignore blocks at the border erlehmann: bc whoever wrote it thought they could forceload all the blocks DS-minetest: "there is only one single bug" lmao xD erlehmann: to depower them erlehmann: so it happens every time you depower the world border erlehmann: regardless how you do it Warr1024: I mean, it's possible for one true underlying bug to have a ton of presentations/symptoms; it just depends on how you count bugs. erlehmann: if you want to be evil, put a mob that can jump in an enclosure and put a pressure plate under it Warr1024: Like, "the creator of this web service clearly doesn't know a damn thing about SQL injection" is "just one" bug too :-) erlehmann: then try to keep the part of the map where it is in active via some mens erlehmann: means DS-minetest: yeah, but I think it's quite hard to adequately summarize all bugs in all minetest related stuff, or at least only those from mesecons, to one bug ar10ch: on the matter of world borders: is it possible to reduce the worlds radius? would this achieve any improvement in performance (less to load / generate) ? DS-minetest: FYI, I haven't managed to cause a crash at world boarder by turning anything off there DS-minetest: maybe something weird in the mineclone mesecons fork calls mesecon.turnoff somewhere erlehmann: ah cool erlehmann: DS-minetest, good to know erlehmann: DS-minetest, i am relieved DS-minetest: there are easier ways to crash a server using mesecons anyway Warr1024: You can reduce the size of a world by setting mapgen_limit, before the areas in question get generated. erlehmann: ok! erlehmann: thank you Warr1024: This does not prevent players from reaching the world border, it just makes that border be closer to the center. Warr1024: it does help reduce the disk space that a world can occupy, which is really helpful if you want to offer downloads or keep rotating backups DS-minetest: erlehmann: it is possible that I didn't try hard enough or just did something wrong (I didn't find clear reproduction instructions). it would be better if you tested it yourself, too Warr1024: And you can also raise the mapgen_limit later if you decide you do want to expand, and it will generate the new terrain just fine as far as I've seen. ar10ch: Warr1024: that's great, thanks! I was just about to ask the last bit too lol erlehmann: DS-minetest, it would be easier to check if mesecons actually had the fix i think Warr1024: If you set it in minetest.conf, then any new world you create will inherit the mapgen_limit setting, but it's "baked" into worlds in I think map_meta.txt, so that's where you'd have to change it if you want to modify existing worlds. DS-minetest: erlehmann: what fix are you referring to? erlehmann: DS-minetest, the issue contains a fix for the mcl2 code to make it not crash by checking for nil when forceloading a node to depower it erlehmann: maybe mesecons already does this Warr1024: I think you can also set mapgen_limit insanely low on an existing world, like lower it to 128 nodes or something, and it will de facto mean "anywhere already explored is fine, but no new mapgen anywhere else". The ungenerated areas will have "ignores" in them and you can't walk into those places. DS-minetest: erlehmann: but how would this help in reproduction attempts? erlehmann: you can actually very easily get into these places, the hard part is getting out again erlehmann: DS-minetest, it shows exactly what to trigger, a depowering of the world border erlehmann: i will test it! DS-minetest: erlehmann: not really exact. it just shows a diff in .turnoff. a stack trace would be more helpful erlehmann: DS-minetest, i have confirmed the bug is not in mesecons. but i found a hilarious dupe in the process. erlehmann: DS-minetest, MTDiscord sorry for overreacting that much erlehmann: you can still crash all mcl2 servers with this Hawk777: IMO still worth reporting the dupe bug to Mesecons. It’s less serious but should still be fixed. Hawk777: And I’m sorry if I came off as dismissive; I just found it frustrating that it looked like there was an important bug in Mesecons but you didn’t seem to want to report it to Mesecons. Hawk777: Good to hear it’s not actually there though. Warr1024: Might be interesting to dig through the mesecons history, or check the blame on that bit of code, and see if they actually found and fixed the same bug pre-fork. DS-minetest: as said before, a stack trace would be helpful. normally you don't call .turnoff for a non-mesecons node, afaik DS-minetest: edit: forget it, I'm stupid erlehmann: oh wow erlehmann: its even worse erlehmann: the asshole developer made redstone machines at the world border blow up instead of merging the fix DS-minetest: hm, just checked the history, the ignore check was always there in mesecons, so mcl2's faul ar10ch: tbh i only tested the mcl game i downloaded way back very briefly but things seem to work - the server ive been on has been messed with horribly. the boat sinks, the protected doors/chests cannot be removed and mcl_weather causes so much lag that the game becomes unplayable. I dont know how many versions of mcl2 are being run on servers, but if theyre all like that then more bugs are little surprise Danil_2461: so i have some questions: 1. who made player_api? 2. is it okay to use it in my game as long as i credit the creator and not violate the rules of the license? Krock: @Danil_2461 it originates from "default" Krock: many people worked on it Krock: but since it's licensed as MIT you only have to attribute the source, and if it refers to a git history, it also documents the authors Krock: I'd say just copypaste it. Jonathon: Player_api from mtg is lgplv2 Krock: weird Jonathon: Aka only use it if you want gpl virus in your work specing: LGPLv2 and GPL virus? What are you smoking? Krock: I wonder why I thought that it's MIT Krock: well then. you gotta need a LGPL2.1+ compatible license Krock: mtg_craftguide is sublicensed as MIT Krock: s/sub// Krock: binoculars too Krock: actually most of it is MIT Jonathon: Mit is nice since others can use a "higher" license if they want without being forced to jordan4ibanez: I merged your fix erlhemann, I'm still new to being a core member of the project, cut me a break DS-minetest: why does .item_place_node not use core.set_last_run_mod when calling callbacks? DS-minetest: züh züh züh jordan4ibanez: But I just reverted it, so that someone else can merge it properly, fixed Warr1024: Making machines explode instead of work as expected is a perfectly valid way to address the problem too Warr1024: I guess the "as expected" part sort of depends on whether you're the type of developer wherein people should be expecting explosions DS-minetest: the problem with explosions is that they shouldn't violate protection of other players Warr1024: Sure, though again, that depends on what you're going for design-wise. Warr1024: I had this debate in another forum already, but it seems that people seem to think "protection should render my creation completely inert except for changes of my own volition", which is fine for like a creative-type game. Warr1024: For more survival-focused gameplay though, either protection may still subject players to the game's mechanics and consequences thereof, or protection support might not even be a priority. Warr1024: If it's MCL2 it's a bit of a hard problem since my understanding of that game is that it's really targeting a mix of play styles. erlehmann: Making machines explode instead of work as expected is a perfectly valid way to address the problem too erlehmann: that is wrong erlehmann: Warr1024 the explosion might actually trigger another depowering, reccursively exploding until the lua stack overflows erlehmann: i am not sure how much redstone you would need for it erlehmann: but it does not really matter erlehmann: bc if i understand it right mesecons keeps all mapblocks active where there is something erlehmann: Warr1024 there can be issues where explosion is the correct thing erlehmann: but in this case i think it was just “haha i am a dev and a griefer” ar10ch: Yay - got me "personalised" priv-based formspecs ar10ch: only thing I have not done is save the inputs, but I'm guessing they get saved as meta strings? Hawk777: erlehmann, it used to keep a lot of mapblocks active, but for about 4½ years, Mesecons proper has used voxelmanipulators instead so that long wires can run through inactive mapblocks (I actually wrote that code)—the mapblocks will be loaded, but not activated. I don’t know whether Mineclone has that change or not. erlehmann: Hawk777, ah ok! erlehmann: i see erlehmann: Hawk777, could you maybe look at the proposed fix here? https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues/1494 Hawk777: It was this PR . erlehmann: Hawk777, query Hawk777: I’m not sure why you call “get_node_force” twice rather than just checking “if n ~= nil”. specing: Hawk777: Has any thought been put into storing wiring/machine networks separately from block data? Hawk777: Certainly. See the extensive discussions on and . The resolution was that it would probably improve performance but also be a huge amount of work to get right (including in the face of server crashes half way through updating data structures), and nobody has done it. specing: thanks Hawk777: erlehmann: one other thing, get_node_force in older versions (where it used active blocks instead of voxelmanipulators) could sometimes return nil even for legitimate parts of the world, specifically if there aren’t enough force-activation slots available (I forget what they’re actually called, equivalent to what Minecraft calls chunkloading tickets I think). There was some logic somewhere about deferring wire updates to a lat Hawk777: ck in that situation (which is no longer present in current Mesecons because, with voxelmanipulators, it’s unnecessary), but it’s worth thinking through if your proposed change would mean that, in that situation, you could hit that and have part of a wire be on and part be off. Although that code as written looks like it would previously have just crashed in that situation, so probably no worse? Hawk777: I’m not actually certain *why* current Mesecons doesn’t crash under the circumstances you described. erlehmann: I’m not sure why you call “get_node_force” twice rather than just checking “if n ~= nil”. erlehmann: see that is why i wanted a code review ar10ch: what is formname? If i label my formspec as "form1", what does formname do? Is it a sub of the formspec? Jonathon: its for when you use minetest.register_on_player_receive_fields ar10ch: ah Jonathon: see receiving formspec submissions https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/players/formspecs.html ar10ch: i had a working formspec with buttons and input fields. Teleportation was a simple test. Then I added a priv-check and since then 2 different formspecs show for privileged / unprivileged users but the buttons no longer work. Gutted! Had hoped formname would be the key ar10ch: Hmm.. what about minetest.show_formspec? I want to show my formspec in the event that the condition is met, so what is formname then? Warr1024: Kind of makes me wonder why form name even needs to be a thing in the API; you could just as easily embed a hidden field in the form anyway to identify it, and the work you have to do to figure out if it's the form you want is more or less the same either way. Warr1024: basically for formname, just make up a reasonable name for it, though prefixing it with your mod's technical name might be a good way to make sure it doesn't collide with anybody else's name. ar10ch: I set it to various things - it usually works, but yeah I should follow a naming convention before I finish this exercise. I think I'll accept my progress so far until tomo and figure out why adding the priv-check feature until then ar10ch: *why adding the priv feature broke it lol Warr1024: minetest.get_current_modname() .. ":whatever" is usually one of the safer ways to go for naming stuff. ar10ch: The idea that prompted me toward this exercise was that I was teleporting players with their chests (intact) but the point of that was to be something to aim for as a reward on a tough survival server, So I thought a formspec and privs had to be added Warr1024: teleporting players without chests would be awkward Warr1024: lotta important organs in there ar10ch: haha ar10ch: that took me a min Warr1024: though I guess if you're going for "tough survival" then trying to do it without heart/lungs is about as tough as it gets DS-minetest: hmmm, you are giving me ideas ar10ch: yeah knife-project the player model in blender ar10ch: walk around like a polo mint ar10ch: a square polo mint * DS-minetest: likes to implement weird mod ideas (https://github.com/Desour/crying_obsydian) Warr1024: Haha, I like that Warr1024: Crying obsidian is a callback to an MC feature that was never properly implemented, got removed, and then got readded later, right? ar10ch: Just reading thru - looks interesting Warr1024: It looks like that mod adds sound to it... :-) DS-minetest: umm, it's crying obsidian ar10ch: haha DS-minetest: idk, what it has to do with mc DS-minetest: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Hawk777: MC does have something with the same name, not at all the same thing though. https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Crying_Obsidian Warr1024: https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Crying_Obsidian#Trivia Warr1024: I remember when it was added the first time, and I think I remember it being removed Warr1024: it had never actually been used at the time though. I didn't know what the plans they had for it were. Warr1024: I suppose they caved to fan pressure to add it in later though Warr1024: They added it back in last year ... only about 7 years too late for me to try it out in MC. ar10ch: hold on my brain cells are trying to regroup - hiding somewhere in a corner... ar10ch: will anyone be offended if i paste my working code, with a hope to seeing how to add the priv check? I can paste the broken-button version after too DS-minetest: use a pastebin service ar10ch: yup ar10ch: https://pastebin.pl/view/5b4a60e2 DS-minetest: (node meta is typically set on_construct) ar10ch: the code shown works fine - its just as i add the priv check that the buttons stop working. ar10ch: hold on ar10ch: ill paste DS-minetest: if you want to have different formspecs depending on the player, you have to send the formspec string every time when the node's form is accessed. => use .show_formspec in on_rightclick and not formspec in meta ar10ch: this works (to show different formspecs for privileged / unprivileged players) but the buttons are broken ar10ch: https://pastebin.pl/view/ee36ef0d ar10ch: ah... maybe i get what ur saying - so no meta string for formspec? ar10ch: oh wait - is it broken because they all have the same names? oh duh Hawk777: That pastebin site is dead for me. ar10ch: the last one? Hawk777: Yeah. Hawk777: Actually both now I think. For me all of pastebin.pl seems to be dead. Was working a few minutes ago. ar10ch: yeah i 404'd. Think I broke pastebin. Sorry :( Hawk777: Looks like it’s back now. ar10ch: https://pastebin.pl/view/578099cd ar10ch: https://pastebin.pl/view/f644776d MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Does minetest 5.4 require the new irrlicht? Jonathon: No Jonathon: 5.5-dev does MisterE: hi riff-IRC: o/ MisterE: I would like some help building Minetest on openBSD MisterE: anyone up for it? MisterE: I would like a run in place version MisterE: I tried, but I get this error when I run minetestserver MisterE: `ERROR[Main]: Failed to get paths by executable location, trying cwd MisterE: ` mmuller_: MisterE: I know little about this, but it looks like you may need to implement a version of getCurrentExecPath() in src/porting.cpp that works on BSD. mmuller_: Trying the Linux version may be a good place to start. MisterE: Sorry I had to make dinner.... Im back MisterE: I dont understand how to do that MisterE: Here are the instructions I am following MisterE: https://wiki.ircnow.org/index.php?n=Openbsd.Minetest MisterE: I followed them, apparently its worked before, but I get that error wsor4035: !tell MinetestBot: wsor4035: Need a nickname... ChaosWormz: So how does The Multicraft Fork differ from minetest? ChaosWormz: Couldn't find a feature list for it y5nw: git-diff y5nw: I mean diff -r should give you the answer (hopefully) lordawe: Hi guys! Please, what it might be, MT throws me this error: ERROR[Main]: [vector_extras] vector.cross already exists. VanessaE: maybe that mod's simply not needed anymore? VanessaE: `vector.cross()` is in the Minetest API VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3178 lordawe: risenpilz mod require it lordawe: riesenpilz VanessaE: one or both need updated then lordawe: ok lordawe: thx VanessaE: either riesenpilz should no longer need vector_extras, or vector_extras needs to drop `vector.cross()` from its API. lordawe: I see lordawe: I've removed the dependency and so far so good. TY VanessaE VanessaE: good luck :) VanessaE: be sure you file an issue against reisenpilz to let the maintainer know lordawe: Guys, I have an issue with minetes 5.4.0 / mods, idk, because it behaves strangely lordawe: I'm on W10, I've selected some mods and created a world. It is working fine. Then I moved it to my other PC (W10) and when I start it, it throws "ERROR[Main]: Connection timed out" and MT quits... lordawe: I struggle with it for couple days. PC has CPU Pentium G3420 @ 3,2GHz 2C/2T, RAM 8GB. Integrated VGA Intel. lordawe: When I use it to connect to other online MT servers, it is working fine. lordawe: I have allowed MT in firewall. lordawe: I have performed memtest and everything is fine. sfan5: this is a known "bug" so to say lordawe: And is there any solution to this "bug", please? sfan5: the client has a 10s timeout for waiting for the server to start up sfan5: (not new in 5.4.0 however) lordawe: ah, k. CPU is rather slow, I have it in my HTPC sfan5: you have several options sfan5: 1) uncheck the "Host Server" box in the main menu sfan5: 2) run the world from the command line using minetest.exe --server --worldname "" sfan5: 3) figure out which mod is taking so long and somehow fix that lordawe: 2nd option is my choice lordawe: I was trying GUI only to test it if it works and I've spent hours to fight it... lordawe: thank you sfan5 sfan5: if you don't mind try figuring out which mod takes so long and tell me lordawe: how? sfan5: if you run with --verbose you have mod load times (and a whole lot of other stuff, you'll have to search the log in a text editor) lordawe: k, I'll try lordawe: should I run --verbose with command line or run gui with verbose? lordawe: verbose lordawe: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/828583248212000788/message.txt sfan5: that doesn't look like a verbose log lordawe: i've created batch file with command: "minetest.exe --server --worldname testovaci --verbose" lordawe: then I've copied the content of debug.txt lordawe: should I copy content of concole window? It shows no times either... lordawe: almost, no times... sfan5: does it show anything with VERBOSE[Main]? lordawe: C:\minetestserver5.4.0\bin>minetest.exe --server --worldname testovaci --verbose - Found whitespace, leaving param - Found whitespace, leaving param VanessaE: sfan5: not to interrupt, but since I'm bored, and you wanted one: https://imgur.com/XcjlCwG.png sfan5: :D lordawe: no VERBOSE[Main] lordawe: VanessaE lol 🙂 sfan5: hm that's weird, thanks for trying anyway lordawe: sfan5, and what about debug_log_level = 4 in config file? 🙂 I'll try sfan5: does that take numbers? I'd think it should be "debug_log_level = verbose" sfan5: sure please try that lordawe: It takes numbers lordawe: debug.txt verbose lordawe: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/828587015633109012/message.txt lordawe: ah sorry, it was still loading, there is another bigger version lordawe: hopefully full debug.txt lordawe: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/828587427618095134/message.txt lordawe: I have found it here: https://wiki.minetest.net/MinetestEDU/Informations_about_%27%27minetest.conf%27%27 sfan5: the times sum to ~5s, top three: sfan5: 2021-04-05 13:07:17: INFO[Main]: Mod "technic_chests" loaded after 736 ms sfan5: 2021-04-05 13:07:15: INFO[Main]: Mod "moreblocks" loaded after 1042 ms sfan5: 2021-04-05 13:07:16: INFO[Main]: Mod "coloredwood" loaded after 1214 ms lordawe: i see it lordawe: thank you for your help lordawe: how to shutdown a server running from command line poperly? Is it enough to Ctrl+C? sfan5: yes lordawe: thx sfan5: obviously don't spam it, just once and it'll shut down normally VanessaE: or kill -INT MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Game: Scale damage flash to max HP 13c11208c https://git.io/JYHze (152021-04-05T11:38:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Reserve vectors before pushing and other code quality changes (#11161) 13f0bad0e https://git.io/JYHzv (152021-04-05T11:38:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest: Remove testnodes_show_fallback_image 133e1904f https://git.io/JYHzf (152021-04-05T11:37:58Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Don't apply connection timeout limit to locally hosted servers 1319c2835 https://git.io/JYHHH (152021-04-05T13:21:43Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04yw05 -> 03minetest/minetest: Make edit boxes respond to string input (IME) (#11156) 1385163b5 https://git.io/JYHFN (152021-04-05T13:56:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add vector.to_string and vector.from_string (#10323) 132332527 https://git.io/JYHFA (152021-04-05T13:55:56Z) ChaosWormz: minetest crashes with "WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: Locale not supported. Falling back to non-i18n input." on the main menu when starting minetest. I am using current latest git (for both minetest and irrlicht) sfan5: gdb backtrace would be appreciated ChaosWormz: does seem to give much more info using the debug build ChaosWormz: *doesn't ChaosWormz: gonna try rebooting sfan5: uh sfan5: so by "crashes" you mean "exits"? celeron55: on windows if it crashes there should be the application crash dialog, right? celeron55: if it shuts down by itself there should be something in the log explaining it celeron55: oh wait, nobody said it was windows this time ChaosWormz: Crash still occurs. sfan5: define "crash" ChaosWormz: I start the application, It's says hi... bye and closes. ChaosWormz: end with this: Segmentation fault (core dumped) sfan5: okay then it's definitely a crash sfan5: a debug build + gdb should give your more info sfan5: make sure to rebuild irrlicht as debug too ChaosWormz: what's gdb? sfan5: a debugger sfan5: basically you run this: gdb -ex r -ex 'bt full' ./bin/minetest sfan5: and when it crashes, it print more information that'll be useful to determine the cause ChaosWormz: https://pastebin.com/62BgkcSp sfan5: pull irrlicht and compile, should be fixed delta23: hello delta23: when i try building the latest git of irrlichtMT and minetest delta23: minetest segfaults on start sfan5: does it print anything before that? delta23: no delta23: crashes before even displaying debug text delta23: $ ./minetest delta23: Segmentation fault (core dumped) sfan5: try running it under gdb and see what it says delta23: should i rebuild it as a debug build ? sfan5: might be useful Krock: also check whether minetest and irrlichtmt are up to date delta23: https://pastebin.com/DSD7Kj7r delta23: Krock: i updated them just now to make sure delta23: latest git for both delta23: debug build also segfaults and gdb gives error about joystick delta23: which i don't have joystick plugins so Krock: how the heck Krock: this=0x0 Krock: looks like it registers JoystickController anyway to irrlicht Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/gui/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L4059 Krock: why do you receive a joystick event? Krock: this is nonsense behaviour Krock: anyway, changing this line to bool handled = m_joystick && m_joystick->handleEvent(event.JoystickEvent); should fix your issue sfan5: you can get a backtrace using "bt full" sfan5: please post that delta23: alright Krock: there's another call in MyEventReceiver::OnEvent too delta23: bt full dumps a whole lot of stuff - exceeds pastebin's 512kb limit sfan5: truncate it delta23: how ? delta23: the debug output? sfan5: save it in a file and run head -c512000 on it delta23: https://pastebin.com/gw0uwBmP delta23: oh wait it 404d delta23: pastebin is deleting my pastes after it pastes them.. sfan5: you could also use another site such as https://uguu.se/ Krock: or https://paste.debian.net/ if it's not down at random times delta23: https://a.uguu.se/WiKgQadZ.txt Krock: MyEventReceiver::OnEvent sfan5: delta23: recompile minetest, there is no bug delta23: recompiling after rm cmakecache and make clean sfan5: on the 2nd an event was added to irrlicht, the shift in the enum can cause a log event to be mistaken for a joystick event sfan5: "can cause" if you've not recompiled that is delta23: i've recompiled it already delta23: this will be 3rd try sfan5: then the libIrrlichtMt being loaded is not the one you compiled sfan5: or it's compiled with outdated headers sfan5: or something else delta23: it's loading the correct library at least delta23: i specified the irrlicht header and library directories in cmake delta23: still segfaults delta23: after rebuild sfan5: check ldd ./minetest delta23: libIrrlichtMt.so.1.9 => /usr/local/lib/libIrrlichtMt.so.1.9 it's the correct version Krock: so you installed it after compiling? delta23: yes delta23: should i retry with local ? sfan5: compare the md5sum of /usr/local/lib/libIrrlichtMt.so.1.9 and the lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so in your local folder Krock: if /usr/local/lib/libIrrlichtMt.so.1.9 is already up-to-date there's no point in it delta23: sfan5: they're the same md5 sfan5: also check if grep STRING /usr/local/include/IEventReceiver.h returns something delta23: $ grep STRING /usr/local/include/irrlichtmt/IEventReceiver.h delta23: EET_STRING_INPUT_EVENT, sfan5: okay that looks good sfan5: hm delta23: strange, when i rebuild it in a new git directory it works fine delta23: but git status doesn't show anything different delta23: (irrlichtMT i mean) y5nw: delta23: I think I wrote about it before. The string input event was introduced a few days ago in a way that is incompatitable with verions of MT linked with older versions of IrrlichtMt delta23: it's the latest version of irrlichtmt... but from what i see y5nw: (assuming that MT is dynamically linked) delta23: -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=ON for the irrlichtMT library reproduces this error delta23: no, i meant delta23: -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS=OFF for the irrlichtMT library reproduces this error sfan5: you have a mismatch of library, headers and/or what MT is built with somewhere y5nw: Wait, so how did you end up with libIrrlichtMt.so.1.9 when you built a static library? delta23: i did originally delta23: i think it's cmakecache delta23: causing this y5nw: make clean && make delta23: yes, that's what i did before that the error kept happening delta23: rm CMakeCache.txt then the above delta23: fixes the error delta23: oh cmake before that a/w celeron55: cmake's worst mistake is not implementing "cmake clean" celeron55: everyone is lost at first trying to reset it y5nw: Since it's a breaking change you need to recompile libIrrlichtMt and Minetest (and yes, in that order) delta23: it's fixed now, just need to reset cmake's cache files delta23: *needed Hawk777: git clean -dxf ← my preferred Very Big Cleaning Hammer Warr1024: Who uses their full real name in their user account name... Jordach: this tbh Jonathon: exactly Emojidiscord: ? Warr1024: Unless you log in as 🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥 I assume you had some need you felt you had to redact that screenshot. oneplustwo: he put his coordinates in his account name Jordach: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/828057380431724594/Screenshot_2021-04-04_at_01.04.08.png Jordach: even i'm smart enough to do so on a mac Warr1024: The only PII that my account name reveals is that sometimes I drop the 1024. Emojidiscord: I dont want tell you my username (not by real name) Warr1024: On discord you're emojidiscord, so in the terminal, you're obviously going to be emojiterminal, QED. Emojidiscord: NO Emojidiscord: (joking) I am "Emojiubuntu" Emojidiscord: (joking) I am "Emojimacos" on MacOS Emojidiscord: (real) I am "Emojiwiki" on wikimedia sites Emojidiscord: (real) I am "Emojigit" on Github and GitLab oneplustwo: (real) You are "The Emoji Movie" on Netflix Emojidiscord: lol Emojidiscord: I have no account on netflix. If any, it will be "Emojinetflix" oneplustwo: turn off ping plz k thx Emojidiscord: OK (this msg have no ping) Emojidiscord: Where can I find color.txt which contains most mods? Emojidiscord: for minetestmapper katp32: there's no such thing as terminal velocity in minetest, is there? katp32: apart from hitting unloaded chunks Warr1024: Terminal velocity can be faked for falling by tweaking gravity. Works fairly well for ents, pretty limited for players. VanessaE: didn't I read somewhere that hitting unloaded chunks was gonna be disabled? VanessaE: (hitting when falling anyway) DivideByZero: minetest.register_on_formspec_input(function(formname, fields) DivideByZero: this doesn't seem to be working. DivideByZero: doc says: * Called when a button is pressed in the local player's inventory form DivideByZero: It's not triggering. y5nw: I am not sure if this is related but there were some reports about segfaults with the newer version of Irrlicht after I made a PR that added string input events. I can't reproduce it locally (with static linking) so I wonder if similar problems are caused by linking to an older version of Irrlicht and then using mt2 DivideByZero: y5nw: was your statement a reply to me, or for the channel in general? y5nw: More or less for the channel in general, as there were a few complaints about segfaults (etc) DivideByZero: ok. y5nw: Basically: recompile MT and Irrlicht and see if the problem still exists DivideByZero: I haven't experienced any of those with the latest dev build, but I have been experiencing texture loading issuess on NPCs and mobs. y5nw: (Irrlicht and then MT) y5nw: Well, I don't think I changed anything in Irrlicht other than edit box and input code, so I'm not sure what caused that DivideByZero: Has code for the shaders changed recently? y5nw: I don't know sfan5: DivideByZero: how recent is "recently"? portaltree: didnt know you were here @zcot adfeno: Hi there, what does mobs_redo's mob protection rune protects agianst? Krock: evil mobs, I suppose? adfeno: Hm… calcul0n_: it is supposed to prevent despawn and other players killing protected mobs calcul0n_: not sure it's 100% safe though :) adfeno: Also, how to prevent mobs from climbing Protector blocks? I placed it on the air (4 or 3 blocks above ground) so that I can protect the entirety of my home and, since the ground had a trapdoor to protect water, the sheep managed to climb and got stuck. :S adfeno: calcul0n_: I think it doesn't prevent despawn if clearobjects is done. calcul0n_: ho, maybe calcul0n_: and no idea how to prevent them from doing stupid things, they still tend to glitch through blocks and go to improbable places hisforever: Hi I need help with billboard mod. here is a pastbin of nods.lua https://pastebin.com/ggqxZDwr hisforever: please help hisforever: its the last comand for statue of Liberty Krock: L108 Krock: missing comma Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! jordan4ibanez: Extremely specific, with move_to could there be more options? Like the speed of interpolation, and delete upon interpolation? Warr1024: pretty sure interpolation is intended to take 1 tick, and to delete after, I guess ... just delete on the next on_step? Warr1024: I'll be surprised if anyone is eager to expand the existing API to add any kind of convenience features though jordan4ibanez: Yes the only issue with that is that the client doesn't see the interpolation even happen if you go on the next tick in a server and half the time in a singleplayer environment, it just disappears. Oh well Warr1024: yeah, and doing all that from the server-side, network jitter could eat up the entire effect, as well as out-of-order packet arrival Danil_2461: guys, how can i register my own formspec list (inventory)?? sfan5: if you need a per-player inventory list you can just call set_size to create it Danil_2461: thx Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/827874179965517854/unknown.png Danil_2461: what does this mean Danil_2461: how do i fix it appguru: well uhm appguru: either you omit the last thing appguru: (;0) appguru: or you upgrade to 5.5-dev Danil_2461: ohk Danil_2461: how the fuck do i stop anims from playing Danil_2461: or set a anim sfan5: was that possible in 5.4? dunno Danil_2461: aa Danil_2461: dammit! Danil_2461: minetest.register_on_joinplayer( set_list(armor, armor), set_size(armor, 4) ) why it give eror Danil_2461: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/827882253065125959/unknown.png hlqkj: minecraft game... already love it 0\ Danil_2461: yes Danil_2461: i am trying to recreate alpha 1.0.0 in mt Danil_2461: plsss help somebody Fixer: redcrab posted :o VanessaE: shocking huh DivideByZero: Having some issues with this line in my code, if someone can provide some input: if minetest.get_node_or_nil(pos).name == "air" then DivideByZero: client side scripting DS-minetest: if minetest.get_node_or_nil, you'll have an "attempt" to index a nil value DivideByZero: error is: attempt to access a nil value DS-minetest: s/_nil/_nil returns nil/ DivideByZero: attempt to index* a nil value Krock: ".name" Krock: this is the problem DivideByZero: I'm trying to get the name of the node at the position Krock: "get_node_or_nil()" returns nil and you attempt to index it with ["name"] Krock: then just use get_node(pos) DivideByZero: .get_node() seems no longer available Krock: lolwhat Krock: it definitely is DivideByZero: for client side? it's not in the doc DivideByZero: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minetest/master/doc/client_lua_api.txt DS-minetest: true Krock: oh well then Krock: local mynode = minetest.get_node_or_nil(pos) Krock: local name = mynode and mynode.name or "ignore" y5nw: minetest.get_node_or_nil(pos) or {name = "ignore", param2=0} DS-minetest: local function get_node(...) return get_node(...) or {name = "ignore", param1=0, param2=0} end DivideByZero: local function get_node(...) return get_node(...) or {name = "ignore", param1=0, param2=0} end DS-minetest: oops DivideByZero: still getting a nil valkue error DS-minetest: /s/n get_node/n minetest.get_node_or_nil appguru: DS-minetest: at that point get_node == minetest.get_node :P DS-minetest: yes DS-minetest: that was the point DivideByZero: Thanks Krock for your suggestion. I'm not getting an error and crashing now. I'm getting "ignore" each time though instead of the node name. Krock: wrong position then sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/88783679cf95803a615b70ed3686daaac65a74a6/minetest.conf.example#L1583-L1599 DivideByZero: Krock: You are correct again. :D Krock: lucky me DivideByZero: I'm making progress now. Thank you. Krock: for use on servers, check the link above tho Krock: some servers restrict CSM functionality DivideByZero: I'm doing this on my own personal server so it's ok. DivideByZero: I'm going to attempt to make a server mod version of it afterwards as well. DivideByZero: And then share on github DivideByZero: is there some external MT Lua editor to run code in? I keep reloading my game every time to test a change in code. DivideByZero: ..for Linux y5nw: I think there is a testing system for MT mods on LuaRocks, if that helps y5nw: Also, if it's not specific to MT, you can use a regular Lua interpreter or LuaJIT Krock: write less errors Krock: or wrap them into pcall() DS-minetest: use luacheck to avoid runtime errors without testing DivideByZero: Thank you all for the suggestions. erlehmann: hey just a question erlehmann: why is anticheat so stupid erlehmann: like it prevents my entirely legitimate teleporters to work in mineclone2 sfan5: huh? erlehmann: sfan5, mesecons is bugged to hell and mcl2 redstone is a copy of that erlehmann: sfan5, and anticheat has a speed limit horizontally erlehmann: like more than 5 m/s and you get rubberbanded erlehmann: or sth like that erlehmann: what i'm saying is is there an anticheat that works with game physics defying mesecons/redstone automatons? sfan5: are pistons involved? erlehmann: kiiiinda erlehmann: hehe sfan5: or whatever else generates movement erlehmann: pistons and oscillators and other stuff erlehmann: so players can be pushed if the ground moves, but not pulled Jonathon: anticheat makes boats rubberband in mtg as well 🤷‍♂️ erlehmann: sfan5, the solution is easy, make a redstone device that oscillates the ground back and forth very fast erlehmann: it also makes minecarts rubberband erlehmann: sfan5 the trick is to get it tickless erlehmann: sfan5 or rather, get it all in 1 tick erlehmann: sfan5 cause redstone is not executing in lockstep, but async, so you can kinda glitch it erlehmann: its probably not as impressive as the thing where you can do a lua stack overflow from inside the game (find a function that does recursive calls, make a device that triggers it a bunch of times) erlehmann: but its very useful erlehmann: sfan5, coincidentally, the shitty redstone/mesecons also means my anxiety machines do not work erlehmann: imagine 2 pistons erlehmann: both same input, but one input is NOTed with a torch erlehmann: on one piston a redstone block, on the other TNT erlehmann: so when i switch the power, those should update at the same time! erlehmann: but no erlehmann: the TNT ignites erlehmann: and blows up the machine erlehmann: bc they do not update at the same time erlehmann: sfan5, any idea how to execute ABMs in lockstep? erlehmann: sfan5, like that they all execute based on the prev world state and set the next sfan5: hold erlehmann: i mean sfan5: hold on* sfan5: do those mechanics even use ABMs? erlehmann: probably not erlehmann: i looked into mesecons and it uses a VM with voxelmanip? erlehmann: and writeback or sth erlehmann: its still cursed sfan5: that's orthogonal DS-minetest: what is "lockstep"? erlehmann: in mesecons/redstone, if you power something with two inputs and rapidly oscillate both, you can end up in an impossible state where the thing is powered even though the inputs are off sfan5: and to the earlier thing: mesecons will be using add_player_velocity() to push the player somewhere, anticheat remembers that so it shouldn't trigger when you have achieved 5m/s by non-cheaty means erlehmann: DS-minetest, so all blocks update at the same time like a cellular automaton sfan5: that sounds like a feature mesecons could only provide itself sfan5: back to player velocity: it hasn't been tested in advanced cases though so who knows maybe it is buggy erlehmann: sfan5 yeah but what if i managed to get pushed by several pistons within 1 mesecon tick sfan5: shouldn't make a difference erlehmann: sfan5, which i have, indeed, managed erlehmann: its how the teleporter works erlehmann: hmmm erlehmann: so what you are saying is erlehmann: if i exceed the speed limit it is bc add_player_velocity() was not called often enough? erlehmann: i'll try that out erlehmann: and report back sfan5: well no, if that doesn't get called then you wouldn't be moving erlehmann: but the only server with long teleporter lines i know has had anticheat turned off sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/cf64054390970f3cf974afb2b174340a3e1da382 sfan5: here's the best overview sfan5: content_sao.cpp remembers which speed you were pushed with and tries to take that into account for anticheat sfan5: looking at it again I can't figure out wtf the m_max_speed_override_time calculation is doing erlehmann: > Adds to player velocity, this happens client-side erlehmann: anticheat happens server side erlehmann: checkmate erlehmann: (i have no idea) erlehmann: sfan5, can you come to a server and i show you? erlehmann: what kind of device i mean erlehmann: or rather erlehmann: lets not do it, i need to figure out more about the code erlehmann: i built a test case erlehmann: and report back sfan5: sure sfan5: it might be an engine bug after all sfan5: we'll see TechDude: Hi TechDude: i have a suggestion for the minetest engine TechDude: its called “sound muffling” TechDude: I was startled by a zombie moaning underground when I was above ground a few blocks up TechDude: in mineclone2 y5nw: -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues TechDude: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11164 Jonathon: people who react to there own issues/PR's are low key annoying tbh Danil_2461: guys.. is there a way to set what anim should the model play? (talking about the model formspec model[]) DS-minetest: > Objects That Absorb Sound DS-minetest: https://vimeo.com/77647572#t=234s DS-minetest: !title MinetestBot: DS-minetest: Look Around you 7 - Iron on Vimeo DS-minetest: Did anyone yet make a Bumcivilian mod yet? jordan4ibanez: I'm just going to bring this back up - https://github.com/Desour/minetest/commit/53de1f4b88e5aae00efa22c9fe929bcd764abb54 DS-minetest: ^ I'm currently too lazy to finish that. jordan4ibanez: You can do it, I believe in you DS-minetest: thanks! but I estimate the effort per probability of merge ratio pretty low, so I will need to get more bored to continue that. sorry. erlehmann: TechDude, zombie moaning is bugged since forever, they are always too loud rubenwardy: When I first played Minetest, I accidentally got a zombie stuck in walls. I could hear the moaning rubenwardy: The house burnt down soon after, it was made entirely of wood and I built a fireplace DS-minetest: once when I've captured a guest into a grave, I couldn't hear anything DS-minetest: heh, my first house was also built entirely out of wood, and burned. I've used the mapgen'ed stone as floor FrostRanger[m]: my first build was tower made of gold and diamond blocks FrostRanger[m]: this was also before I figured out how to give myself fly... FrostRanger[m]: needless to say it was ugly Danil_2461: my first build was a brick house Danil_2461: a tiny brick house Danil_2461: i didnt know how to give myself fly too Benrob0329: My first house was either a cobble shack or a mineshaft. Danil_2461: lol Benrob0329: The latter has been phased out in favor of cabins, but the former is still very much a thing. Emojidiscord: The newest commit of MT and Irrlicht makes the program directly Segment Faulted. MT version: Minetest 5.5.0-dev-0d90ed6d9 (Linux) Using Irrlicht 1.9.0mt2 Using LuaJIT 2.1.0-beta3 BUILD_TYPE=Release RUN_IN_PLACE=1 USE_CURL=1 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 STATIC_SHAREDIR="." STATIC_LOCALEDIR="locale" Emojidiscord: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/828051175412465744/unknown.png DivideByZero: Is there a CSM that lets me send a command to a game on join? Example when I join my server I type /immortal each time, but I would like to automate that process. (just for me though, not other players) DivideByZero: I'm attempting to make my own mod to do this since I didn't find a solution already made. Is there a command for minetest.register_on_connect to make it detect when I am connected to the server? jordan4ibanez: What exactly does "ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod '??' in callback luaentity_Step(): createSector(): pos. over max mapgen limit" mean? I've been trying to replicate it and I can't seem to no matter what I do Jordach: it seems like the entity is being placed beyond what the mapgen is either being limited to, or its default setting DivideByZero: How do I send a message to minetest chat? minetest.send_chat_message('Hello World!') doesn't seem to work. DivideByZero: specifically i'm looking to send a / command DivideByZero: this doesn't work either, even though the modding books suggest it: minetest.chat_send_all("Hello World!") DivideByZero: Are the docs all out of date and there is a new syntax for this? rubenwardy: Chat send all is correct rubenwardy: When are you calling it? You should call only the player is online rubenwardy: Calling it when players are offline is fine, but there will be no one to see it rubenwardy: So use a callback rather than running during load time Danil_2461: rubenwardy becomes a bot rubenwardy: 🙄 DivideByZero: Ruben I'm trying to get my script to send the chat command /immortal DivideByZero: minetest.chat_send_all("/immortal") DivideByZero: send_chat_all (a nil value) DivideByZero: I also tried this: minetest.run_server_chatcommand('/immortal', 'on') DivideByZero: I'm calling it from a client side script DivideByZero: I'm practicing with it in the .dte Danil_2461: is there a way to supply a custom texture for the blocks with drawtype = "allfaces_optional" if the leaves type in settings is set to opaque? rubenwardy: Oh right, the client side API is different from the server side rubenwardy: Also, the slash is not part of the chat command name rubenwardy: So run server chatcommand without the slash rubenwardy: The modding book only documents the server API DivideByZero: minetest.run_server_chatcommand('/immortal', 'on') DivideByZero: like that? rubenwardy: The client API is unstable DivideByZero: oops rubenwardy: No, you still have a slash DivideByZero: minetest.run_server_chatcommand('immortal', 'on') rubenwardy: Yeah DivideByZero: ill give it try Danil_2461: wait if you add a slash doesnt that mean youd have to type "//immortal on" rubenwardy: You should also make sure you've connected by this point. The way to tell is checking for minetest.localplayer DivideByZero: it doesnt error, but the command isn't being run. DivideByZero: ok DivideByZero: This is what I have so far. It's not giving any errors, but it's not working either: https://pastebin.com/h2y8P92K unixbsd: On Windows10, does Minetest running on Windows 10 can be played like a XBOX, with gamepads + a 4 player split screen ? sfan5: no Danil_2461: no MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: fix(ci): ensure we build on docker only modifications 138878367 https://git.io/JY6Bj (152021-04-02T12:40:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: fix(docker): reduce the number of required libraries on build 135de8497 https://git.io/JY6Re (152021-04-02T12:40:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: fix: use irrlicht fork instead of the standard library 1378da79b https://git.io/JY6Rv (152021-04-02T12:40:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: fix: don't send the whole local context to the docker image 13c4b048f https://git.io/JY6Rf (152021-04-02T12:40:22Z) VanessaE: repeating from earlier: am I the only one for whom server favorites aren't working anymore? (specifically, they are either not being saved, or just not appearing at the top of the list) -- 5.4.0 and 5.5.0-dev (024d47e0). sfan5: works for me Jonathon: works for me expert975: Is the base game the intended experience or am I supposed to have mods to play? Jonathon: if base game == mtg, then you should really play with mods expert975: MTDiscord: what's "mtg"? sfan5: in that sense the base game (Minetest Game) is not the "intended experience" Jonathon: mtg == minetest game Jonathon: mte == minetest engine sfan5: you should give mods and other games a try Jonathon: ^ Jonathon: content.minetest.net if you havent found it yet for a decent selection of mods VanessaE: sfan5: how can I diagnose it? sfan5: hm sfan5: if you temporarily move your favoriteservers.json away, does it work? VanessaE: where's that file located? VanessaE: (this is a global install so I'd assume ~/.minetest) sfan5: should be .minetest/client/serverlist/favoriteservers.json VanessaE: there is no ~/.minetest/client dir. VanessaE: ownership and permissions on ~/.minetest are correct sfan5: surely that file must be somewhere sfan5: I only have a run_in_place install so I don't know the exact location VanessaE: vanessa@rainbird:~$ find /home/vanessa/|grep favoriteservers.json VanessaE: vanessa@rainbird:~$ VanessaE: (no results) VanessaE: (yeah I know I didn't have to go through grep. force of habit) sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5.4.0/builtin/mainmenu/serverlistmgr.lua#L93-L109 sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ VanessaE: no reference to serverlist_file in my .conf * VanessaE: tries moving .minetest out of the way VanessaE: vanessa@rainbird:~$ ~/Scripts/run-Minetest.sh VanessaE: 2021-04-02 09:55:12: ERROR[Main]: Could not read configuration from "/home/vanessa/.minetest/minetest.conf" VanessaE: seriously? sfan5: the older name was favoriteservers.txt but if you've ever used 5.4.0 you shouldn't have that VanessaE: oh wait, my script explicitly specifies a config file. erstazi: find $HOME -iname "favoriteservers*" VanessaE: ok, empty ~/.minetest, fresh new config (made no changes).. started, connected to one of my servers. VanessaE: vanessa@rainbird:~$ find $HOME -iname "favoriteservers*" VanessaE: no results. VanessaE: (after quitting) erstazi: Did you install minetest through snap or something? sfan5: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm VanessaE: no, compiled and installed normally. sfan5: try mkdir ~/.minetest/client/serverlist and see if it works VanessaE: vanessa@rainbird:~$ find $HOME -iname "favoriteservers*" VanessaE: vanessa@rainbird:~$ ls .minetest VanessaE: debug.txt minetest.conf VanessaE: vanessa@rainbird:~$ which minetest VanessaE: /usr/bin/minetest VanessaE: so that much is correct. VanessaE: sfan5: mkdir -p, incidentally. VanessaE: ah HAH VanessaE: sfan5: creating that dir fixed itr. VanessaE: -r sfan5: we have a bug then VanessaE: so evidently MT fails to create it. probably assumes Run-in-place? VanessaE: or sfan5: I think it doesn't try at all VanessaE: more precisely, it probably assumes to use the source dir's client/ dir VanessaE: (which IS present there, but well, that's useless if you're using a global install ;) ) sfan5: hm it calls fs::CreateAllDirs before though so ... VanessaE: well considering it created .minetest after I moved my usual out of the way, that part at least gets *started* sfan5: aha the sandbox prevents the directory from being created VanessaE: haha sfan5: and because the sandbox doesn't apply to safe_file_write it works if the folder already exists sfan5: (should've said ""sandbox"", the mainmenu is unsandboxed but some filesystem functions have a few sanity checks) VanessaE: ext4 here, fwiw. VanessaE: sfan5: so we have two issues -- not creating that tree, and not creating a config file if needed, if it's specified on the command line VanessaE: (though as corner cases go, that one's so deep into the corner that it's practically on the other side of the wall :P ) sfan5: #11152 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11152 -- Fix server favorites not saving when client/serverlist/ does not exist already by sfan5 hlqkj: question: if two mods defines two textures with the *same* file name, which of the two the engine will take? depends on mod loading order, or something else? rubenwardy: Depends on mod loading order. Latter one wins rubenwardy: Means you can override textures from mods hlqkj: ok, thanks for this. seems some mod devs doesn't like to stick to the modname_nodename.png convention (@VanessaE and @Tenplus1 lol) appguru: There are reasons not to stick to that convention. hlqkj: idk.. i just joined the server, and all bamboo suddenly were brown. some grepping showed that both ethereal and youngtrees haves a "bamboo.png" file in them: no clue if this is one of your reasons, but being dunce i'd say it's not VanessaE: hlqkj: um, in general I do stick to that convention :P hlqkj: np, once found it's quickly fixed ;) hlqkj: no real clue of what happened, all was working till today though VanessaE: I'll make a point to fix the image filenames for that mod VanessaE: though idk who originally wrote it *checks forum* hlqkj: neither me nor the admin pulled mods, nor changed anything VanessaE: looks like Mossmanikin VanessaE: but he's been gone from MT since forever hlqkj: now this is interesting: i renamed the ethereal one to ethereal_bamboo.png and changed the def accordingly, now it's still taking a wrong texture but not the youngtrees anymore!... o.O WTH hlqkj: i'm so very funnily confused.. lol hlqkj: any advice on how to check which texture is applied to a node? i recall in 0.4 that was shown in the debug, doesn't seem to show anymore. need to enable something for that? y5nw: I think there is a global table with the list of registered nodes. IIRC you can find the node textures there hlqkj: okies thanks so much! this is driving me mad :/ hlqkj: ahh! back to normal!!! yay. thanks y'all for your help ;] SwissalpS: I have been under the assumption that nodes, mapblocks and mapchunks all share the same origin at 0 0 0. Player is telling me that chunks are offset by 32. Is this true or is he seeing some blending effects in biome overlap? Also do biomes strictly end at chunk borders? Warr1024: I once tried to predict where the boundaries of a world would be based on mapgen_limit and only ever got it partially working. It seems that mapchunks are offset by ... something; I'm just not sure what all the corner cases actually are. appguru: I think 0,0,0 is in fact the center of a mapblock hlqkj: are you sure? that may be the case for chunks, not block afaik. but i may be wrong hlqkj: also mapblocks are 16x16x16, how could they have a center? Warr1024: I think -0.5, -0.5, -0.5 is a corner of a mapblock, but the mapblock that contains 0,0,0 is the center of a mapchunk... hlqkj: makes sense Krock: use the simple_protection mod to show up the mapblock boundaries :3 Krock: (advertisement end) hlqkj: lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add specific groups to different types of grass (#2852) 1342baede https://git.io/JYis1 (152021-04-02T17:13:44Z) specing: I have a patch for F5 debug info to show them SwissalpS: Krock: the grid shown by simple_protection does not seem to show top and bottom of mapblock. The other sides are identical to what I have in postool Krock: ah right Krock: only x/z Krock: forgot that I removed the upper and lower textures SwissalpS: tried to make a minimal world with mapgen_limit = 1 but that seems to not be enough SwissalpS: with chunksize = 5 mapgen_limit = 80 and static_spawn at 0 0 0, I get a playable area of 47 -32 47 to -32 47 32 SwissalpS: oops, last coordinate is negative -> -32 not 32 SwissalpS: -32 -32 -32 to 47 47 47 would be nicer way to express that SwissalpS: thanks all, postool will now calculate offset from chunksize setting GreenXenith: So uh, how do I undo a make install for minetest? sfan5: https://web.archive.org/web/20200916234829/https://gitlab.kitware.com/cmake/community/-/wikis/FAQ#can-i-do-make-uninstall-with-cmake sfan5: well that looks like much the relevant part here is: sfan5: > xargs rm < install_manifest.txt GreenXenith: Ah, yes, lovely GreenXenith: Huzzah, thank you GreenXenith: Did running make install change some cmake config or something so the executable looks for scripts in /usr/local/share/minetest ? GreenXenith: Hm, guess not. I suppose its a byproduct of not using RUN_IN_PLACE GreenXenith: But what if I want to have a run in place that uses the .minetest dir 🤔 GreenXenith: I guess its time for some symlinks :/ sfan5: o.O GreenXenith: I was under the impression that run_in_place was solely to make it use the data directories inside the build dir GreenXenith: However it seems that is not the case sfan5: isn't that what it does? GreenXenith: If you dont compile as run in place it seems to expect all the builtin stuff to be in /usr/local/share/minetest GreenXenith: Which I suppose makes sense Warr1024: run_in_place is basically the opposite of assume_installed_system_wide Extexo6: New phone, what's this? Extexo6: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/736028416741998593/827688805963399218/Screenshot_20210402-163846.png Hawk777: wat Hawk777: looks like a cactus fish Extexo: I tried changing the screen width in advanced settings but It didn't work Extexo: Uhh ignore the cactus fish lol, look to the far right Extexo: My new phone is being... Weird Hawk777: Oh, blue area? Dunno, never tried Minetest mobile myself. Extexo: Got a coloured bar that changes cause my screen is too big DivideByZero: Tried rebuilding it, and still the same result. DivideByZero: The only thing I've changed is updating to the new mt irrlicht, so perhaps that has something to do with it, but it's now required. DivideByZero: Does irrlicht have anything to do with shaders or loading textures on NPCs and mobs? DivideByZero: This is on Linux (Manjaro - Arch derivative) with OpenGL 3.3.0 used as renderer. DivideByZero: It worked prior to latest build requiring the new irrlicht. swift110: cool DivideByZero katp32: hi, could anyone help me figure out why my server isn't being listed on the serverlist? ar10ch: did u click "Host Server" ? katp32: I have server_announce set to true, it's accessible with both ipv4 and ipv6 via the domain name set by server_address, there's no password, a description and name are set, no curl errors in log, but it's not there katp32: it is a dedicated server. Warr1024: "no password" isn't even a requirement is it? katp32: it is according to the wiki Warr1024: Have you definitely tested connecting to it from over the internet? katp32: yes Warr1024: How long have you been waiting for the server list to refresh? katp32: other players are able to connect just fine as well, it's been up and running fine for several days now Warr1024: Also, are you looking at the one inside MT itself or are you checking the website directly? katp32: it does not ever appear on the server list, not after 60 seconds, not after 4 hours, not in game and not on the website Warr1024: Hmm, there isn't any reason there'd be like a geographical or other specific blockage that could prevent the server list from reaching you, but other clients could? Jonathon: could be the serverlist being over agressive again Warr1024: Also ... the server list isn't under attack again, is it? 😒 Jonathon: anyways, seems like a sfan5 question katp32: the only possibility I coud think of is that the server list is connecting with ipv6, and the ipv6 connection isn't working for whatever reason katp32: if someone would be kind enough, that could be tested by pinging 2600:3c04:e001:25::751e Hawk777: katp32: I have two IPv6 access points, and neither can ping that address. Hawk777: 100% packet loss. katp32: yeah, got someone else to ping it, same result; so, there's an issue with the routing... at least I know it's not a minetest problem now.. VanessaE: no go here, either. katp32: ooohhhh, I know why, I'm dumb katp32: I forgot to route ipv6 traffic back out of the server, only into it :P DivideByZero: Still unable to figure out any reason for the shaders issue. VanessaE: by the way, am I the only one for whom server favorites aren't working anymore? VanessaE: (as in I have none at all and recently-visited servers aren't being remembered) skiscratcher: Hey, I'm having a linker error when trying to compile Minetest for OpenSUSE on RPi 3: /usr/lib64/gcc/aarch64-suse-linux/10/../../../../aarch64-suse-linux/bin/ld: /usr/lib64/libform.so: undefined reference to pcre2_regcomp' /usr/lib64/gcc/aarch64-suse-linux/10/../../../../aarch64-suse-linux/bin/ld: /usr/lib64/libform.so: undefined reference to pcre2_regexec' /usr/lib64/gcc/aarch64-suse-linux/10/../../../../aarch64-suse-linux/bin/ld: MTDiscord: /usr/lib64/libform.so: undefined reference to `pcre2_regfree'. I am trying to compile MT 5.4 with Irrlicht-MT arif1: Hi katp32: what determines ranking in the minetest serverlist? Elvis26: Hiz Jonathon: krock: https://github.com/minetest-mods/mesecons/pull/555 25 days is a few days? beanzilla: How do I add a mod to the `secure.trusted_mods` in minetest.conf (Or what does that look like) hlqkj: just open your minetest.conf file in a text editor, and write the name of the mod in the secure.trusted_mods list hlqkj: if you cannot find secure.trusted_mods then add a new line, and add it like this: hlqkj: secure.trusted_mods = beanzilla: Ok, thank you hlqkj exactly what I needed to see. :) hlqkj: You're welcome :) sfan5: @skiscratcher looks like an issue with ncurses, you can just disable that since you won't need it on the client sfan5: katp32: this algorithm https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/blob/master/server.py#L357 Danil_2461: ok guys help me, so i am making a uhh a subgame i guess and i want to use sheets for textures, but it crashes or just doesnt find any textures that arent even sheets Danil_2461: and just says "couldnt find ... texture, creating a dummy image" (... being a filename) Danil_2461: even tho the texture is clearly in the proper folder it could access Danil_2461: nevermind skiscratcher: Thank you sfan, but I found out there were docker images that worked TechDude: Wait a minute..... Krock: how about five ntat: Hello. Somebody has experience with Python in Minetest? Is it possible to using Python in Minetest? heavygale: for a mod or what? ntat: heavygale, for MineClone heavygale: ok, but why phyton? ^^ leo_rockway: because Python counts from 0 \o/ heavygale: lua doesn't ? leo_rockway: I thought it started counting from 1, but it's been a while. ntat: heavygale, for e.g. Mineclone for automate some things. I like Python :-) I know, that in Python is some module for Minecraft. leo_rockway: ntat: honestly, if you speak Python Lua would be no trouble. Warr1024: "I like Python" is a pretty thin reason to avoid learning a new language rubenwardy: :D leo_rockway: I like Python too, but Lua is a cool guy. ntat: MTDiscord, "I like Python" is a pretty reason to look for solutions in this language ;) ntat: because I ask :-) ntat: Python in Minecraft → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNZULg4dZxM&fbclid=IwAR2CHIx32AsFLQZEC-6AMJA4YCWSS0rUS4wuE93bD9V4LydEclKAMNkppPk oneplustwo: video unavailable Jonathon: There are projects for python in minetest, but just use lua Jonathon: Its simple enough, and fully supported leo_rockway: in that video the changes are real time. I'm not sure you can do that with Lua and Minetest. leo_rockway: at least I haven't seen it. leo_rockway: or the video makes them look like real time. rubenwardy: you can run Lua dynamically at runtime rubenwardy: even entire scripts rubenwardy: the only thing you can't do is register or change nodes sfan5: you might be interested in this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13316 ntat: sfan5, looks great Jonathon: you can use dynamic media on entitys at runtime i think rubenwardy: entities are fully dynamic rubenwardy: you can register new entities at runtime as well rubenwardy: it's because they are prototype based rather than type object based. And they're not sent to the client MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Add `math.round` and fix `vector.round` (#10803) 133560691 https://git.io/JYo2l (152021-04-01T22:18:58Z) jordan4ibanez: Oh no, not juanchi irc MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: CGUITTFont optimizations (#11136) 13024d47e https://git.io/JYo2E (152021-04-01T22:20:16Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Sort out cURL timeouts and increase default 1334888a9 https://git.io/JYo2u (152021-04-01T22:19:39Z) IhrFussel: Is it possible that recent name tag changes somehow broke how they work on older server versions? Someone with a 5.4 client claims that hidden player name tags (by setting their alpha to 0) are still displayed as black text sfan5: hiding nametags using alpha=0 should work regardless of version but it's possible it was accidentally broken TableToo: hi TableToo: ok Calinou_: Krock: I created the account requested, just to clarify :) VanessaE: TIL: Dreambuilder has over 23000 nodes now. wow. VanessaE: (much nodes. very RAM. wow.) Jordach: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/826642540891340870/unknown.png rubenwardy: https://twitter.com/rubenwardy/status/1218257313003458561?s=19 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Irrlicht support code maintenance 131e4913c https://git.io/JYgeb (152021-03-31T11:15:47Z) mohanwavale: Hello, how to generate dungeon in mod? Where i can read about it? Jonathon: dungeons are made by mapgen typically Jonathon: i suppose you could make a lua implementation Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen/dungeongen.cpp mohanwavale: Is it right to do it with abm? Jonathon: well it depends if you want to use mapgen dungeons, make your own lua mapgen, or make a scheme adder based on some params appguru: mohanwavale: usually you don't want ABMs for this, you rather want on_generated mohanwavale: Thanks, where i can read more about modding then official modding book? rubenwardy: lua_api.txt is the reference mohanwavale: Thank you celeron55: if you don't like browsing a text file, this is pretty good https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ celeron55: (a rendition of lua_api.txt into a reasonable browser format) mohanwavale: Thanks mohanwavale: Is there any API mod for mapgen structures? tech_exorcist: where can I ask a question about a thing that could be abused by cheaters? tech_exorcist: a thing in the client's code tech_exorcist: *about tech_exorcist: not like I want to use it myself eh :-) sfan5: here tech_exorcist: ok tech_exorcist: apparently, in src/client/client.h, if you modify something::checkPrivilege to always return true, you can use the fly, fast and noclip modes without the necessary privileges, along with the wireframe feature, on survival servers tech_exorcist: it's just 1 line of code to change, and then several minutes of recompilation time Jonathon: yup Jonathon: altho about the only thing minetest anticheat is good at detecting is fast, so it will reset you if you try and use it tech_exorcist: I noticed tech_exorcist: but it only works horizontally, iiuc tech_exorcist: and, with several other modifications, it is possible to have everything (except particles, apparently) be lightened by the maximum possible amount of light Jonathon: yup Jonathon: see df tech_exorcist: "df"? Jonathon: dragonfire tech_exorcist: ok appguru: Everything rendering-wise is possible eugenefil: hi, /rollback command has 2 syntaxes: " []" and ": []" eugenefil: first syntax is to revert player's actions eugenefil: what about the 2nd syntax and the actor? can actor be something other than player name? eugenefil: i looked at engine code and i saw the actor set with RollbackScopeActor and it was used only with player names, i.e. only player can be an actor. am i missing something? sfan5: it's entirely possible that what you're thinking of was never implemented eugenefil: like reverting entities' actions? eugenefil: i got the impression, that only player's direct actions (e.g. digging a node, taking smth out of a chest) are registered eugenefil: but launching a grenade or detonating a tnt is non-reversible eugenefil: i mean the destruction made by a grenade or tnt DivideByZero: I'm trying to build the latest git version of Minetest client, and I'm havig an issue with the irrlicht. Steps taken: remove system irrlicht, git clone minetest fork of irrlicht, make and build, then git clone Minetest and make and build. If gives an error about finding the wrong irlicht (even though the system irrlicht was removed), and doesn't find the correct irrlicht. sfan5: did you tell it where your local copy of irrlicht is? DivideByZero: No, where is that done? DivideByZero: from minetest folder it is ../irrlicht DivideByZero: Not sure what file to place that info in though. thanks. sfan5: invoke cmake with -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=$PWD/../irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=$PWD/../irrlicht/include sfan5: (yes that should be in the README) DivideByZero: Ah thank you. VanessaE: if MT requires its own version of Irrlicht now, why is it not simply included within, and built along with MT the usual way? rubenwardy: Fetchcontent or submodules would be better VanessaE: submodules suck. sfan5: submodules suck and build systems downloading dependencies themselves (by default, that is) is the worst misfeature ever invented rubenwardy: Including a massive amount of third party code is messy and makes backporting harder rubenwardy: Most modern languages have integrated tools for managing dependencies VanessaE: rubenwardy: which begs the question - what's so critical that MT just *has* to have its own Irrlicht fork now, when it's been fine up till now? rubenwardy: Rust, for example, allows you to give a git URL rubenwardy: VanessaE: it's not been fine. Input is broken across many platforms, and there are so many graphics bugs that are unfixable VanessaE: unfixaable when using upstream I guess you mean rubenwardy: macOS is completely broken. Linux clipboard is broken. Non qwerty doesn't work sfan5: was* sfan5: (clipboard is still broken but I know the fix) rubenwardy: I mean with upstream irrlicht sfan5: yes sfan5: you're correct then, I mean VanessaE: well fine, if that's how it has to be but DBZ's issue isn't the first time it's come up sfan5: that's because we're lacking documentation VanessaE: n o\ VanessaE: no. VanessaE: it's because you're packaging it wrong VanessaE: to put it bluntly. sfan5: the average does not know how to discover existing cmake options from the CLI and the error message or doesn't tell them. rubenwardy: With a unique name, you can globally install our irrlicht and not need to specify the location sfan5: how is that not a documentation problem? VanessaE: it's like splitting out a function to a separate file and then...adding nothing else. sfan5: average user* sfan5: or README* (shoulda proofread that) VanessaE: this MT irrlicht should be packaged with Minetest and should be built with one command (in essence), the same way MT already ios VanessaE: is* VanessaE: that's how it's not a documentation issue VanessaE: sorry if I'm a little coarse.. Ronoaldo: I second the VanessaE opinion here, already talked about that and managed to build statically irrlitch to build minetest VanessaE: the user should not HAVE to "discover" new cmake variables at all Ronoaldo: Unless in the short term you guys plan to get other people building on top of your Irrlitcth fork, incorporating as part of the codebase makes more sense to me. VanessaE: it should just default to the copy that ought be included with the engine (note I say "with", not "in") appguru: Am I the only one who didn't have his build process broken? Ronoaldo: Not sure. appguru: VanessaE: Irrlicht is even heavier than Dreambuilder sfan5: including it inside the engine repo is out of question, everything else can be discussed Ronoaldo: I'm working in Debian and it wasn't easy to make it work, the issue is not only building, also delivering appguru: We don't want to include that inside the engine repo sfan5: what would be possible e.g. is to have minetest detect if you have cloned irrlicht to ./minetest/irrlicht/ and automatically import that VanessaE: appguru: so? it still has to be built whether included with the engine or not sfan5: @Ronoaldo I expect that at least some distributions will make a separate package out of irrlicht-mt Ronoaldo: sfan5: having that makes a lot of sense to me, sort of how it is documented that you can clone minetest_game too Ronoaldo: I sincerely doubt Debian will... VanessaE: also DB is 168MB.. oof rubenwardy: That's essentially manual submodules, and also allows systemwide installs appguru: oof appguru: that means Irrlicht is most likely smaller than DB Ronoaldo: I strongly suggest static linking... DivideByZero: I'm getting other build errors now: DivideByZero: [ 24%] Built target GenerateVersion sfan5: @Ronoaldo why not? I haven't read them but I'm pretty sure Debian policies mandate shared linking whereever possible DivideByZero: make[2]: *** No rule to make target '/home/rick/irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so', needed by 'bin/minetest'. Stop. DivideByZero: make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/Makefile2:454: src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/all] Error 2 sfan5: did you check that the file actually exists? I just made an educated guess Ronoaldo: It would create two separate shared libraries that have a lot in common, given irrlitch upstream is already packaged VanessaE: I'm sorry, whoever made the decision to fork irrlicht and cause users these ^ kinds of issues instead of just including it with the engine made a DUMB decision. sfan5: I don't think there's anything else using Irrlicht so distros could just drop that ;) VanessaE: wrong. VanessaE: I've run into a couple of other games that use it DivideByZero: Thanks sfan5. I see the issue: libIrrlichtMt.so is now libIrrlichtMt.a VanessaE: I keep thinking Supertuxkart is one, not that anyone plays that :P sfan5: whether it's .so or .a depends on your settings DivideByZero: I'll re-make and try again. sfan5: VanessaE: supertuxkart has forked irrlicht a long time ago, it's not even named the same anymore VanessaE: my point stands. rubenwardy: Does the findirrlicht support IRRLICHT_ROOT? That's usually the more automatic way to find stuff sfan5: you mean IRRLICHT_SOURCE_DIR? not anymore and that didn't really work before either rubenwardy: The old way, though. The new way is to not have find files, and use IRRLICHTDIR to the Config sfan5: hm, ubuntu doesn't seem to have a "who uses this package" list rubenwardy: LIB_ROOT was fairly standard naming sfan5: on Arch Linux however there is exactly one (1) package that depends on it: minetest DivideByZero: changing to .so to .a seems to have worked. Ronoaldo: You can apt or dpkg rdepend, or just look on online packages.ubuntu.com sfan5: I looked there: https://packages.ubuntu.com/groovy/libirrlicht1.8 sfan5: don't see any reverse-deps Ronoaldo: Ubuntu is weird, there were a page in Debian for this. rubenwardy: Cloning into the root folder, and also supporting a different target name installed system wide makes sense to me as a solution Ronoaldo: Let me check rubenwardy: The error message can direct users to git clone Ronoaldo: sfan5: it could be my memory failing about the web version. I did on my debian testing install a recursive reverse depends and indeed only minetest seems to use it, along with another tool I guess: https://paste.debian.net/1191851/ sfan5: I see sfan5: interesting Ronoaldo: That said, for debian, they would usually go either way: dropping the cegui-mk2-0.8.7 support for the next/next release or creating an "alternative" system where you can install one of the forks at a given time... less likelly they will allow both to be installed with different names but that is also a possibility. Ronoaldo: What I'm saying is based on a few discussions on mailing lists and package bug reports I saw, plus my reading of the policy as well as how I see how they support other packages in a similar fashion (like ffmpeg and libav, or imagemagick implementations) sfan5: irrlicht and irrlichtmt don't claim to expose a compatible API so I don't think that applies Ronoaldo: Also, this particular library looks like exactly what you guys forked irrlitch (based on the package description from Debian): https://www.cegui.org.uk/ Ronoaldo: > irrlicht and irrlichtmt don't claim to expose a compatible API so I don't think that applies Ronoaldo: fair enoght Ronoaldo: but security issues derived from both do... this is usually where the policy hits harder depending on how much work the maintainers expect to have to maintain both packages Ronoaldo: Perhaps renaming the library everywhere possible? (if it's not done, I may have missed that) sfan5: hm Ronoaldo: Food for tough: minetest claims itself to be a voxel game engine, and the fork puts you guys more in that direction. I don't see with bad eyes but incorporating and fiction and improving the internals is good; kindly consider making users lives easier so we all can contribute to that goal rubenwardy: Irrlicht is a rendering library. Having it included or separate doesn't make a difference rubenwardy: In terms of definitions rubenwardy: The problem with including it directly is that is makes the repo much heavier with code we didn't write, makes it harder to backport changes, loses history, and makes it harder to go back to upstream irrlicht rubenwardy: The majority of users use binaries of Minetest. It can be made easier to build without being directly included sfan5: the users who don't use binaries are the most present on IRC though so if process doesn't improve we'll hear many more complaints/support requests Warr1024: You don't have to lose history to merge it into MT. But making it a submodule or something would probably make it a lot easier to build, even if you want to keep them separate. VanessaE: [03-31 15:27] The problem with including it directly... VanessaE: If upstream is as broken as you say it is, do you really think they're gonna accept changes from MT's fork (or anyone else)? VanessaE: s/you/you guys/ VanessaE: as for the size of the repo, no one cares if it's 50 or 500 MB. VanessaE: it's not like users have to re-clone the entire thing every time they update, if they're not stupid anyway :P freshreplicant[m: I just noticed - the minetest_game Github page still says: " Minetest Game - The default game for the Minetest engine". I suppose it still is right now> freshreplicant[m: * I just noticed - the minetest_game Github page still says: " Minetest Game - The default game for the Minetest engine". I suppose it still is right now? sfan5: yes VanessaE: Dreambuilder should be everyone's go-to ;) freshreplicant[m: Out of curiosity, is there any chance at all the feature freeze for MTG will be lifted at some point, or is it permanent? Warr1024: If someone wants MTG to be actively developed again then they should fork it and actively develop it. Noisytoot: freshreplicant[m: your name contains an unmatched bracket Warr1024: https://xkcd.com/859/ Ronoaldo: > VanessaE: supertuxkart has forked irrlicht a long time ago, it's not even named the same anymore sfan5: and they have bundled the lib inside their repo 🙂 freshreplicant[m: If someone wants MTG "> Makes sense I suppose. katp32: hi, this is a bit of an odd question, but is it possible to see somewhere how long a world has been running for? Ronoaldo: https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/tree/master/lib freshreplicant[m: My name has no brackets in it, to my knowledge, could be some odd Matrix > IRC thing. katp32: like, total playtime for a world Warr1024: In effect MTG already HAS been forked and actively developed, multiple times. A lot of the games that are out there now for MT are built on top of an MTG base. Ronoaldo: Matrix adds [m] at the end, but seems like you reached a character limit \o/ Warr1024: katp: there is a "game time" value in the env_meta.txt file in a world katp32: awesome, thanks Warr1024: I think it's measured in seconds, and represents the total amount of time that the game world has been "ticking" katp32: out of curiosity, is it possible for a mod to access that value? Warr1024: though it's obviously not necessarily a good measure of how much time has "passed" in a particular locality since time is "frozen" when mapblocks are unloaded. Warr1024: minetest.get_gametime() katp32: great Warr1024: It's an integer value so if you need sub-second precision then you'll have to do something else, like using the dtime parameter in globalsteps or something. katp32: sorry, to clarify, is this per-world or per-mapblock, and how does it behave if the server is up but there are no players on it? Warr1024: it's per-world, and it keeps ticking regardless of players katp32: ah, great Ronoaldo: It looks like most games using irrlicht had to fork it ... Ronoaldo: In Deiban package, supertux not even depends on it... nor it shows anything related to it from a first look katp32: well, making a completely generalized game engine is difficult, and introduces inefficiency VanessaE: so just bundle the damn thing with the engine. make it easy on us old pharts :) Warr1024: That's the kind of use-case that submodules are designed for. ar10ch: my boy released a mod yesterday but we dont know how to use github or the forum so no idea if he's done it right. VanessaE: Warr1024: like I said, submodules suck. but in all fairness they suck way less than not including it at all (and hence having no preconfigured, predictable location to #include it from) Ronoaldo: > That's the kind of use-case that submodules are designed for. Agreed, but seems like this practice has a lot of hate rather than love. Regardless, having a local vendored copy makes sense to me, specially if there are changes linked. Anyways, it would be nice if a local checkout can be detected and used. Warr1024: VanessaE: yeah, that's about how I feel about submodules too. They suck, but just less than most alternatives. Ronoaldo: Taking from supertuxkart example, they have a copy, and from time to time update/sync with it. Their build always include it. If it is not a big of a coding hassle, detecting a local checkout in the lib folder would make a lot of sense and updating the REAMDE to clarify that would also be helpful. Ronoaldo: With or without submodules, it would make compiling straightforward. The only advantage I see over a submodule is that you can be more clear as of what dependency version a given checkout refers to. If a user reports an issue, it could be harder to identify it. Like, what irrlichtmt + minetest engine commits are involved. ar10ch: it's called mario_parkour on github if anyones interested Ronoaldo: Harder without the submodules I mean. Ronoaldo: ar10ch: do you have a Github link? ar10ch: hold on - its not my account but ill find it Ronoaldo: I suggest you post it on the Games sub-forum as well! The topic could help you share it with the community - https://forum.minetest.net ar10ch: Ronaldo: https://github.com/kingowainturbo/minetest-mario_parkour ar10ch: Ronaldo: Ok thanks - Is that here or on mt forum? ar10ch: oh sorry i saw it VanessaE: the textures appear to be ripped directly from a commercial Mario property.. ar10ch: He put it in WIP because there was no buton for new topic in mod releases VanessaE: (some do anyway) ar10ch: *button Jonathon: Katp32, either builtin or mtg has a command for it, i dont recall which atm katp32: a command for what? Jonathon: World days katp32: oh, there's /days, yeah Ronoaldo: ar10ch: thanks for sharing! * VanessaE: wanders off, kicks some dust at irrlicht :P ar10ch: :) DS-minetest: is it just me or are checkboxes in the main menu no longer working? doubtman: I have a mouse with side button doubtman: How can I bound them to some action on minetest? doubtman: Side buttons doubtman: Sometimes called mouse 4 and mouse 5 doubtman: Is it possible to bind these buttons for actions like run, dig, toggle map? ar10ch: maybe in minetest.conf ? ar10ch: if u know the key binding for the mouse doubtman: How can I know it? sfan5: http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/namespaceirr.html#a54da2a0e231901735e3da1b0edf72eb3 here's the list sfan5: could be KEY_XBUTTON1 or KEY_XBUTTON2 but not sure ar10ch: Hmm .. I did a mod a while ago (unreleased) but I couldn't satisfy the rotation issue. My "magic wand" places a mts, how do I do get the direction in which the schem is placed to match, say the facedir? Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5540 see rotation ar10ch: static rotation ? ar10ch: I can write in the rotation but it's not what a player wold want ar10ch: *would ar10ch: it's some kind of dir to facedir thing (i think) - ill have to try and remember where ive seen something similar ar10ch: ok i could write in rotations and say something like: "cobble / acacia house - north facing door", or "stone_brick / pine house - west facing door". If there's no better way. ar10ch: nvm i must be a genius for thinking of something nobody has done before :) DivideByZero: Shaders don't seem to be working in the latest git dev-build. DivideByZero: They are enabled in options. DivideByZero: with shaders off the canvas of NPC and mobs are white, with it enabled the canvas is black, but the graphic textures do not display. DivideByZero: Well most of them dont. I see about one texture per NPC or mob, displaying, and the rest of the canvas is black. DivideByZero: Is this a known issue? Have I somehow done a bad build? specing: are there any different textures for technic machines? The defaults are hideous SuchAGeekGirl_: Noisytoot: Oh there is a Minetest I SuchAGeekGirl_: IRC rubenwardy: Hello Jonathon: along with other platforms that can be found at https://www.minetest.net/get-involved/ SuchAGeekGirl_: I'm making a wheat farm rn SuchAGeekGirl_: I have a skeleton farm and a wheat farm for food SuchAGeekGirl_: Because why go outside when you can stay undeground xD SuchAGeekGirl_: What is the best Y level to mine diamonds in Minetest? I'm playing MineClone2. Warr1024: Wheat and skeletons sound like a pretty interesting crop rotation :-D SuchAGeekGirl_: Well I found diamonds at Y -53 so I will go down to Y -45. That should work SuchAGeekGirl_: Hopefully it's not a "the lower you go the more common they get" type of thing SuchAGeekGirl_: Oh wait. I found bedrock Pexin: SuchAGeekGirl_: in typical games, deeper = more_common tends to be the case SuchAGeekGirl_: Yeah I went all the way down to bedrock SuchAGeekGirl_: Also I'm so dumb I can't do math today lol Pexin: except specific things like technic:uranium for example Pexin: which may not be in your game at all, I don't know mineclone SuchAGeekGirl_: Also I have two skeleton skulls. I think they drop when a skeleton kills a skeleton or something SuchAGeekGirl_: No. MineClone2 is meant to be a minecraft clone SuchAGeekGirl_: I just have no clue how to light this nether portal SuchAGeekGirl_: I will try lava SuchAGeekGirl_: Omg lava worked Warr1024: NodeCore Lode actually has a weird relationship with depth. It gets harder to find as you go deeper, but when you do find it, there's a lot more. SuchAGeekGirl_: Weird SuchAGeekGirl_: OMG WHY ARE THESE STUPID F***ING MAGMA CUBES GODS SuchAGeekGirl_: I CALL BS SuchAGeekGirl_: I lost my diamond sword and axe ): Everything else I can easily recover SuchAGeekGirl_: How can I stop this from happening? SuchAGeekGirl_: https://imgur.com/86HpxSj.png VanessaE: it depends on what's causing it, but you might be able to just increase your entities per block limit VanessaE: max_objects_per_block = 500 VanessaE: in minetest.conf VanessaE: but first try to find out what's causing it SuchAGeekGirl_: Okay. It happens more when I am in the nether SuchAGeekGirl_: That's all I know SuchAGeekGirl_: Omg it's so laggy in the nether VanessaE: which nether mod are you using? SuchAGeekGirl_: I am using MineClone2 SuchAGeekGirl_: I wish microsoft would just make minecraft free VanessaE: never gonna happen :P SuchAGeekGirl: I am back sagax: hi all! sagax: what are better render we have? sagax: for better light, water, flowers, etc... Ravise: Hi, can I get some support on building minetest client from source? I cd'd into dedicated build directory, did cmake $HOME/src/minetest/src/ -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=$HOME/opt/irrlicht_mt/include/ -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=$HOME/opt/irrlicht_mt/lib/libIrrlichtMt.a, but I'm still getting the error about minetest's irrlicht not found. cmake . -LH shows no irrlicht-related entries luk3yx: Did you build IrrlichtMt? Ravise: Well, the ~/opt/irrlicht_mt suggests I kind of did sfan5: what does grep REVISION ~/opt/irrlicht_mt/include/IrrCompileConfig.h say? luk3yx: My apologies, it's late here Ravise: no output, exits with 1 sfan5: then the include path is not correct Ravise: So, issue with compiling irrlicht rater than minetest? sfan5: probably just entered the wrong path sfan5: if ~/opt/irrlicht_mt/include/irrlichtmt exists try that one Ravise: Oh, right, that could be it Ravise: OK, I tab-completed it, but still no output, exit code 1 Ravise: But now the cmake passes, I forgot about the extra dir after include Ravise: Thanks :) katp32: I noticed from minetest.example.conf that the client seems to have shader support? is that something that's been used at all? sfan5: to the average user shader might mean dynamic shadows, depth of field, glare, realistic water and a bunch of other effects sfan5: in reality shaders are just an essential component of the graphics pipeline and does not necessarily imply any of that katp32: I mean, yeah, and of course minetest already uses glsl shaders (?) for rendering everything; I'm talking about fanciful effects that hit performance too hard to be "built-in" sfan5: yeah those don't exist sfan5: (yet) sfan5: there have been a few attempts at dynamic shadows and there's someone at the forums working on it right now IIRC katp32: ah, well, I wish them luck then.. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add entry in features table for degrotate changes 13f345d00 https://git.io/JYRZK (152021-03-30T12:40:09Z) Warr1024: Re: Microsoft making Minecraft free: if they could, they'd probably love to make it free the same way they did with Windows. Ingar: Windows isn't free VanessaE: you gotta be crazy to run windows by choice anyway ;) Warr1024: You don't pay for Windows. You pay for a new computer, and the price of Windows is included as a "tax" in effect. Ingar: unless yui build your own PC Ingar: or computer comes with Home edition and you need Pro Warr1024: There are a few alternatives that let you get a computer without the Windows tax, but then you also lose the "subsidy" of commoditization. Ingar: VanessaE: dual boot, some games still don't run properly in wine or native lnx VanessaE: that's what virtual machines are for :) Ingar: mixed results Ingar: and even native games still mostly run better in windows Wuzzy: Who wants to go on ITB for secrets hunting? SuchAGeekGirl_: I use linux mint 20.1 katp32: > You don't pay for Windows katp32: as Ingar said, it's included in the price of your shiny new computer, and furthermore you're paying in the form of the bajillion trackers it's got :P katp32: not to mention terrible performance, crashes and general instability, truckloads of malware.... Noisytoot: I use Debian 11 (bullseye/testing) Noisytoot: MTDiscord: You do pay for windows if you're computer doesn't come with it, and you buy it (although why would someone do that?) Warr1024: I think my point about the "Windows tax" is that you can buy a computer, format it and put Linux on it, but Microsoft still got a cut, even if you never even booted their stuff. Warr1024: You can build your own, or you can buy from a seller that ships non-Windows, but those options come with their own costs. katp32: that's still very different from free. Warr1024: My point was that (1) at the time when you're making the decision whether to use Windows or not, it's effectively "marginally gratis" because they've already taken their cut, and (2) if MS could do that with minecraft too, they very well might. Warr1024: It was suggested that MS should make minecraft free, and I'm just saying, be careful what you wish for, because the way they actually achieve that effect might be worse :-) freshreplicant[m: You mean by monetising via adverts and such? Warr1024: Sure, or they'll work out a deal with device manufacturers to preload it and the cost will end up rolled into the device cost or something. freshreplicant[m: Ouch. Minecraft as the Candy Crush replacement for the start menu. katp32: haha katp32: I wouldn't be entirely surprised, they've already messed with Minetest plenty as it is, what with "Windows 10 Edition" and all... katp32: err,, Minecraft katp32: nobody let microsoft touch Minetest >.< freshreplicant[m: Skyrim: Minecraft Edition, brought to you by Bethesda - err, Microsoft. Wuzzy: cant compile minetest right now... there's an error with irrUString.h 🙁 Wuzzy: I have MTIrrlicht installed Wuzzy: IrrlichtMt* katp32: does anyone know of a mod that adds elevators that move up and down in real time, but *fast*? katp32: like, 100m/s fast Wuzzy: yes katp32: ah, link? Wuzzy: no katp32: .. Noisytoot: katp32: Is there a Minetest Windows 10 edition? katp32: dear god no heavygale: :D lol Wuzzy: katp32: try https://krock-works.uk.to/minetest/modSearch.php?st=0&at=0&q=elevator katp32: that is... a lot of elevator mods lol... mohanwavale: Hello! How dungeons generates in minetest_game? Aren't they decorations? Warr1024: Oh interesting, a mod search... calcul0n__: mohanwavale, no, they are a specific thing of mapgen, unless they are customised by mods calcul0n__: decorations just place nodes at randomplaces, i don't think you could make a dungeon this way Warr1024: ...mod search seems to be only an alternative to CDB, doesn't include CDB results. sfan5: mohanwavale: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen/dungeongen.cpp mohanwavale: Thanks Jonathon: Wuzzy, see kibilths comment today and yesterday in dev irc Wuzzy: oh, i already figured it out Wuzzy: due to the rename, i had to recompile IrrlichtMt as well 🙂 Wuzzy: but thx specing: Krock Works sounds like a badass factory name SuchAGeekGirl_: How has Microsoft messed with Minetest? heavygale: not at all? heavygale: or is there something minetest users should know about? ^^ hlqkj: yay, that was missing: Microsoft Minetest 2003 Professional... SP1 Jonathon: lol Warr1024: "Krock Works sounds like a badass factory name" ... I'd probably buy all my cookware there. * tech_exorcist: updates to 5.4.0 tech_exorcist: éwill update tech_exorcist: * Flamore: is the 5.5.0 -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY supposed to point to the .so or the folder? it tried to build the .so... Wuzzy: .so Flamore: Irrlicht found, but it is not Minetest's Irrlicht fork. The Minetest team has forked Irrlicht to make their own customizations. It can be found here: https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht Flamore: this must be a joke, i cloned it sfan5: you need to set the include path too Flamore: i did that too :P sfan5: your set it wrong, then sfan5: you* Flamore: alright, i pointed to the .so and the include correctly but the "make" command outputs "no rule to make "irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so" required by /bin/minetest" or something like that Flamore: yet cmake says that " Found Irrlicht: /home/user/minetest/irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so.1.0 " Flamore: oops i mean .so without the 1.0 DS-minetest: that sounds like the .so file doesn't exist. did you build irrlicht before, nonstatically? y5nw: I think you need to set IRRLICHT_LIBRARY and IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR Pexin: Flamore: when I tried yesterday, I had to make a symlink for libIrrlicht.so because something, somewhere wasn't totally updated to refer to libIrrlichtMt sfan5: not possible sfan5: the CI builds portable and system-wide irrlicht in various environments (linux, mingw for windows) and it all works Pexin: well the linker yelled at me until I made the symlink, so I don't know what to say Pexin: it's certainly possible I did something wrong, shrug sfan5: sure might be an 'external' problem MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Block & report player self-interaction (#11137) 1388d1fcf https://git.io/JY0dr (152021-03-30T19:49:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Consistent title bar + render information in mainmenu (#10764) 13f4118a4 https://git.io/JY0do (152021-03-30T19:49:15Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Draw items as 2D images (instead of meshes) when possible 130d90ed6 https://git.io/JY0dh (152021-03-30T19:50:39Z) katp32: is there anything to be done about "active block modifiers took 201ms" being constantly spammed to logs? Krock: katp32: use less ABMs, use a faster CPU, make them faster or increase the limit Krock: I'd try to go for option N° 3 because it would also solve the problem for other people katp32: it would probably be faster if it were possible to write mods in native code, but no, all the content needs to be in lua I guess... Krock: you can write them in native code Krock: link a static library and require() in Lua Warr1024: Increasing the limit doesn't really work well though. Basically ABMs always try to all run on the same tick, so if you set the limit to like 80% (e.g. 80% of your gameplay is ABMs) then you end up getting an 800ms lagspike once a second. katp32: why do heavy mods not use require() then, my god... Krock: because it requires mod security Krock: and C(++) knowledge Warr1024: Most MT builds use LuaJIT, so writing mods in C/C++ would actually end up slower. Krock: and it's really not convenient to write mods like that katp32: um.. what? katp32: are you really telling me that luajit is faster than native code lol Warr1024: Yep, here we go again Warr1024: I'm gonna let you do this one yourself, katp. Krock: LuaJIT is pretty fast tho jonasbits: Hi, im interested in wiki.minetest.net, how does one get an account on that? Do i need to contribute in some way before I can get a login? Krock: jonasbits: /query Calinou <-- email address Warr1024: Ultimately what MT should do with ABMs, anyway, is to push them into a queue when they're scheduled, and then dequeue some of them each tick, instead of trying to cram all ABMs for all mapblocks onto a single tick and freaking out about it when it can't fit them all in. jonasbits: thanks Warr1024: I think nobody has tried to do the mapblock queue for ABMs because there are a few sticky points Warr1024: like "how many blocks should I dequeue", "how do I validate that the blocks I queued are still loaded," and "will ABMs really work if they don't run all mapblocks at the same time" Warr1024: The last one, at least, should be simple enough though because as it is right now all mapblocks already don't run at the same time, since ABMs can be skipped for some mapblocks. katp32: is there a way to view a breakdown out what mods are registering how many ABMs Krock: katp32: grep or mod profiler katp32: that doesn't tell me what things look like at runtime, I'd have to actually carefully read the source code to understand what that means for an actual running server Krock: yes Viper: Hi. I keep getting "ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0)" Viper: Could it be FW is blocking port? katp32: Viper: try increasing the curl timeout katp32: iirc it's literally `curl_timeout` Viper: i have same mt.conf from 0.4 era katp32: but, for the record, I have similar issues, and I believe there must be a bug in the client, because sometimes it works immediately and sometimes it doesn't even if curl_timeout is set to something ridiculous like 60 seconds Viper: i get it on server Viper: server is stable 5.4 katp32: well, bug in the client then, I assume the client and server use the same code for handling interactions with the serverlist :P katp32: s/client/server katp32: sorry, I'm being confusing by typing the wrong words lol Viper: katp32: :) Viper: maybe i have wrong server_address = . Could that trigger error? katp32: no, I don't think so katp32: I would try increasing curl_timeout in your server config (it's measured in milliseconds, so I might try a value like 10000, which is double the default), and see if that helps katp32: hi, why is movement only handled on the client side, this seems like a pretty obvious problem as far as anticheat goes Sven_vB: katp32, when MT was started, it wasn't meant for playing with cheaters. Sven_vB: also I think that games should be fun to play without cheats. cheating usually is a symptom of a game that's not fun enough in its original gameplay. katp32: I agree, but still, it's a relatively simple check to add katp32: but yes, in general, the game should just be designed in such a way that cheats aren't needed katp32: (that being said, it's also a multiplayer game, and any time there's competition between players there's going to be people trying to cheat; the "people won't cheat if the game is fun" thing only really works in singleplayer or cooperative settings) Viper: Hi, when i run clearobjects full mt uses only one core. Its last stable 5.4 Jordach: MT is still singlethreaded except mapgen Viper: ic ty Warr1024: There are plenty of people who will cheat before they even give the game a chance to be fun. Warr1024: If they're in single player, though, let 'em; they're only ruining it for themselves. unoz: could minetest be sued my microsoft Jonathon: For what? unoz: for copyright infringement? like... is it possible unixbsd: hello unixbsd: what is freecraft? unixbsd: I see https://linuxappfinder.com/package/freecraft unixbsd: what is the difference of freecraft versus minetest? Emerald2: Can't tell much from that link, and googling FreeCraft comes up with different games from a block building game to an RTS. Kimapr: "Realtime fantasy strategy game for Unix and X" Kimapr: looks like something completely unrelated to minetest and voxel games in general Kimapr: it isn't in aur either, so must be very obscure Warr1024: Yes, MT could be sued by MS, for anything really. They could sue us for grazing our cows on their land if they want. Doesn't mean they could win. Ingar: not for copyright infringement Ingar: I doubt anyone would _want_ to steal MC's java code rubenwardy: you don't need to right to sue someone. See patent trolls Ingar: tbh, microsoft hasn't been too trigger happy in handing out lawsuits Ingar: (they were usually on the receiving end though ;) ) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fix CMake version warning 13c12861a https://git.io/JYWN4 (152021-03-29T12:59:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fix CMake version warning 13fd4c5dd https://git.io/JYWAI (152021-03-29T13:05:02Z) Warr1024: If MS actually sued the project, then it would be very chilling, since the project itself doesn't have the kind of centralized resources to fight it, but it would also be a direct assault on free software and organizations like FSF would probably intervene to some extent. Warr1024: Probably the publicity would be bad for MS though. They've managed to sort of fall back into "big-tech-adjacent" since Google, Facebook, Apple, etc are in the spotlight right now, but people probably haven't forgotten Internet Explorer... Jordach: MS these days isn’t what it used to be Jonathon: if ms wanted to sue anything mt related, mineclone2 would probably be higher up the list than mte tbh Ingar: afaik game mechanics are not subject to copyright Ingar: otherwise ID software would have sued any quake clone in existence Ingar: (and be sued into oblivion themselves) TechDude: Hello TechDude: I’m thinking about editing minetest to make it look more like minecraft TechDude: anyways how do I include a custom font in Minetest? Calinou: TechDude: you can use any TTF font as long as Minetest is compiled with FreeType (which is the case for official builds) Calinou: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L988-L1005 appguru: That's unfortunately not really possible yet. You can only distribute the font and recommend your users to download it & point Minetest to it in settings. Calinou: change the mono_* parameters below for the chat console Calinou: also, have you checked MineClone2? appguru: Well, the alternative is texture-modifier-based fonts... TechDude: Ok TechDude: Thx TechDude: ill put in my own font TechDude: And yes I know about MineClone2 TechDude: i contributed a few issues there TechDude: how I am thinking: TechDude: minetest + changes + font = main part TechDude: launcher = I write it in python TechDude: easy TechDude: My goal is to mimic EVERYTHING as close to minecraft as possible appguru: A Minetest launcher is pretty pointless IMO. andrew: hi TechDude appguru: I might do font media support TechDude: Hey Andrew specing: A proper minecraft clone should also have a splash screen thanking the user for not purchasing minecraft katp32: specing: we should have a splash screen that thanks you for not buying minecraft, and also not downloading that crappy Final Minetest fork :P katp32: anyways, what I'm here to ask.. is there a client config option to not have debug info shown by default? specing: isn't that the default? I always have to press F5 to see it Jonathon: ^ katp32: nope, it seems to be on by default for me... Jonathon: it might be on by default in debug builds? altho dont quote me on that Noisytoot: specing: Minetest isn't a Minecraft clone katp32: argh, I compiled from source so that might be it... katp32: Noisytoot: it's not a minecraft clone, but it is without doubt a minecraft competitor Jonathon: You can select between Release and Debug build by -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=. Debug build is slower, but gives much more useful output in a debugger. Jonathon: by default it should not build as a debug build, you would have to set that yourself katp32: yeah, I might need to open an issue about that; I'm guessing it's because iirc gentoo sets the cmake build type to "Gentoo" for reasons I can't remember at the moment, I'll have to do some digging katp32: in the mean time, is there a runtime option to turn that off? Jonathon: i mean, i would assume f5 turns it off like normal Jonathon: never used a debug build tho specing: I also compiled from source, and debug info is not default for me katp32: well, yes, but I mean a setting in minetest.conf or something to make it not on by default Jonathon: grep minetest.conf.example katp32: fair enough lol Jonathon: # show_debug = false Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1180 katp32: ah, awesome TechDude: Oh hey thinksome TechDude: long time no see ;) daCoUSB: Lol Benrob0329: katp32: I really don't think that a FOSS game engine competes with a commercial game. daCoUSB: Am I allowed to say cum? TechDude: Looks like specing went aaa run TechDude: anyways is it legal for me to lisense my own modified minetest under mit or do I have to use the original Lisense sfan5: the short answer is no katp32: er, what's the original license? sfan5: the long answer is read the terms of the LGPLv2 katp32: yay, gpl katp32: gpl or bust ;D sfan5: if your modifications are only providing a predefined config file or something I'm sure that Minetest's license does not matter TechDude: Be right back one sec then I’ll read lgplv2 Warr1024: I'd be surprised if the any *GPL license allows you to redistribute a derivative, no matter how trivial, under license terms other than an equal or greater *GPL. Warr1024: You probably can either use the original license, or you can "upgrade" the license to a more restrictive GPL variant, but you surely can't distribute your modified version under MIT unless you distribute only the modifications themselves and users need to obtain minetest separately and assemble it themselves. TechDude: Back now reading TechDude: ok so lemme specifiy exactly what I’m wanna do TechDude: I will give full credit to the authors TechDude: I will not claim that I wrote minetest and it’s dependencies TechDude: i will include the original Lisence.txt TechDude: and I will lisense my own changes and software under MIT katp32: doesn't GPL mandate that any changes to the software also need to be licensed under a GPL-compatible license? TechDude: Oh umm well lisense my additions under mit and my changes under gpl TechDude: ill go read it some more TechDude: Yeah ok TechDude: and “ whole of the work to be licensed at no charge” ok I’ll put on github * katp32: whispers, "use a different source host, not github!" TechDude: Umm ok katp32 TechDude: i prefer it but I’ll put it elsewhere also TechDude: anyways here TechDude: https://github.com/TechDudie/StrictlyMinecraft/blob/main/README.md TechDude: correct me before I upload Minetest and mineclonewp TechDude: Mineclone* argh keyboard Warr1024: You can license your additions under MIT, but if you distribute the whole thing along with MT then the entire compilation needs to be licensed [L]GPL, and the MIT license only applies to your changes when distributed separately. TechDude: Ok I’ll go delete repo appguru: 👍 sfan5: so did you actually modify minetest's code or not? TechDude: https://github.com/TechDudie/StrictlyMinecraft TechDude: yes I am modifying minetest’s code TechDude: Wb appguru sfan5: which code exactly? TechDude: Umm at the moment... TechDude: oh right yeah I remember TechDude: guiChatConsole.c and it’s .h sfan5: okay then specifically the changes to MT code need to be licensed under the same license sfan5: if you write e.g. a launcher to run MT that can be any license you want TechDude: I’m annoyed now TechDude: im just including a zip TechDude: then writing some python to decompile it TechDude: er decompress* Benrob0329: TechDude: Why are you forking the engine, rather than just making a game? Benrob0329: You know that we have a content store for downloading other games directly from the main menu, right? TechDude: I am forking the engine because I need to accomplish certain things that are impossible with just a game Benrob0329: Such as? Benrob0329: I'm assuming one thing will be the chat position and style, but that sounds like a PR waiting to happen since you're not the only one who wants that to be customisable. Jordach: Pretty sure that’d take me an hour or so to PR Benrob0329: There was a PR, but it wasn't an option and I think the general consensus was that having it be a HUD element would be best tech_exorcist: is it possible to recompile only parts of the client that have changed? I'm messing around with the code, and it looks like I have to do a full build every time (~15 to ~20 minutes) rubenwardy: that's what happens by default rubenwardy: if you edit a header, then any C++ files that include that header will need to rebuild rubenwardy: that's also a very slow build time, are you using multiple worker threads? rubenwardy: eg: make -j4 rubenwardy: number of threads +/- 1 is usually a good metric for that number rubenwardy: where threads are virtual cores tech_exorcist: I use -j4 (2 cores with Intel HyperThreading) tech_exorcist: that's what happens by default | does it depend on CMakeCache.txt? rubenwardy: not sure. Are you deleting it each time? tech_exorcist: I had to delete it when I copied my directory to make the modifications tech_exorcist: it complained about the path rubenwardy: it should recreate that file after building again tech_exorcist: it did tech_exorcist: I think tech_exorcist: let me check sfan5: if you delete's cmake's caches it can't reuse build artifacts obviously tech_exorcist: I see MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update CONTRIBUTING info on translating builtin 137c24a9e https://git.io/JYlAd (152021-03-29T17:56:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace fallback font nonsense with automatic per-glyph fallback (#11… 138d89f5f https://git.io/JYlAF (152021-03-29T17:55:24Z) tech_exorcist: now that file's there tech_exorcist: bbl tech_exorcist: for unrelated reasons MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Emojigit -> 03minetest/minetest: Update language choices in settingtypes.txt (#11124) 13fde2785 https://git.io/JYlxO (152021-03-29T17:58:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up various misleading and/or confusing messages and texts relat… 137ad8ca6 https://git.io/JYlx3 (152021-03-29T17:57:48Z) hlqkj: is anyone else having absurd high values as forceload counts in force_load.txt ? seems like the technic s/station keeps foreloading the same block many times... mohanwavale: Hello, where i can find code that generates dungeons in standart minetest_game? tech_exorcist: back Jonathon: Dungeons are made by mapgen, there are aliases for which nodes it uses, the chests are placed by the game if i recall correctly mohanwavale: Are dungeons decorations? sfan5: maybe if he waited more than 20 minutes someone would've been there to answer the question tech_exorcist: https://zenhack.net/2017/01/08/public-service-announcement-irc-is-not-a-syncronous-medium.html hlqkj: at least he got one VanessaE: someone PLEASE tell help me find what's breaking biome_lib Krock: init.lua L120 Krock: no I really don't now and I need no answers but sleep. see ya. VanessaE: bye. VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11134 VanessaE: (but closed because maybe it's a mod bug) VanessaE: I've gone over every byte of code and can't find a cause. hlqkj: $rm -r mods/biome_lib ?? hlqkj: sorry, couldn't resist, nm me :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Degrotate support for mesh nodes (#7840) 133b78a22 https://git.io/JY8aO (152021-03-29T22:25:11Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix wield image of plantlike_rooted (#11067) 136c9be39 https://git.io/JY8aE (152021-03-29T22:27:46Z) Emojidiscord: what will happen if I use Public Remote Media Server Project but some mod are not included in that media server? Emojidiscord: @sofar Hawk777: I’m not them, but I’m pretty sure the Minetest client tries to fetch media from the media server and then falls back to fetching it from the game server as usual—at least when I ran a server a while ago, I think that is what happened. Hawk777: I wasn’t using the public media server, just my own, but I think that’s how it worked. Jonathon: if i recall correct it is that ^ Emojidiscord: Thank yoU! Emojidiscord: advtrain on media server is outdated (wrong repo). How to deny the client to download advtrains media from the media server? Hawk777: The files are content-addressable I think—the name of each file is the SHA1 of its contents—so that should not matter. Hawk777: In other words, the game server tells the client to obtain a media file with a particular SHA1, and if the media server has a different version of the file, then it will have a different SHA1, so that file will not be used from the public media server. Hawk777: Unless the media server has somehow gotten files with incorrect contents for their SHA1 names. sofar: Hawk777: you're correct it falls back ( Emojidiscord ) Emojidiscord: sofar plz add mod in the list: https://toyshost2.ddns.net/tmp/lmU0sMSDuy.txt Emojidiscord: also, change the repo of advtrains to git.bananach.space/advtrains.git Jonathon: 🤦‍♂️ :thonking: Emojidiscord: ? Jonathon: did you even bother to compare your 2 lists? and bother to remove mods with no textures, and remove forks that dont change textures andrew: heh 2021-03-28 10:50:42: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'mobs_turtles' in callback on_chat_message(): /home/andrew/.minetest/mods/verbana/init.lua:8: bad argument #2 to 'format' (string expected, got nil) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood Jordach: shoo bot Emojidiscord: New list: https://toyshost2.ddns.net/tmp/UUyFi1k7V2lKlCl8NCYE.txt Emojidiscord: @sofar Emojidiscord: Code to find: bash for d in */; do cd $d GA=$(git remote -v 2>/dev/stdout) if test $? -eq 0; then [ -d "textures" ] && if [ -z "$(ls -A textures)" ]; then true else echo $GA fi fi cd .. done andrew: Anybody has a simple guide on how to use digiline touchscreens? SwissalpS: old touchscreen takes table or table of tables with commands like: digiline_send('touchscreen', { { command = 'clear' }, { command = 'addbutton_exit', name = 'a', label = 'exit', X = 2, Y = 2, W = 2, H = 1 }}) SwissalpS: new model takes a string, standard formspec afaik SwissalpS: if the above mentioned button is pressed, event.msg.a will exists SwissalpS: and it contains the label string 'exit' * andrew: does not understand standard formspec SwissalpS: setting H (height) to anything but 1, for buttons, will not work, currently. (and if I understood cheapie correctly there is no intention of working on old model) andrew: cheapie: How do I write into a digiline card? andrew: *digistuff cheapie: andrew: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/digistuff/tree/docs/cardreader.txt andrew: thx andrew: I'm thinking like "why not jsut write to card when it receives digiline, and send to the digiline if it reads the card?" Hawk777: andrew: Presumably because you can’t write to the card until it gets swiped, so it’s useful to notify the controlling computer when the write actually happens. andrew: yeah andrew: is is possible to convert {"Andrew"} to "Andrew"ina luactler Hawk777: You mean get the only element from a number-indexed table? Hawk777: If t = {"Andrew"}, then t[1] = "Andrew". andrew: thx andrew: i was doing t[0] Hawk777: Lua indexes from 1 Hawk777: Unlike almost everything else :/ andrew: im seeing caverealm worldgen in the nether Rrixxi: hey guys is anybody know a nice lua programming app? i want to start with codeing Benrob0329: Rrixxi: Any code editor will work. Common ones around here include: VsCode (or Code-OSS), Notepad++, ZeroBrane Studio, Sublime Text, and various power-user editors like vim, Emacs, and Microsoft Notepad. andrew: Benrob0329@MTDiscord: Microsoft Notepad, yes. Very powerful indeed. I also once used unix pipes to edit files (JK) xD andrew: FrostRanger[m]: Is there a way to see player PMs from IRC, without being at the server terminal? LoneWolfHT: With a mod maybe mazes_81: does joe7575 connect here sometimes ? VanessaE: I need some help with biome_lib if anyone's around VanessaE: while I have naturally tested my code *extensively* in singleplayer, I'm seeing something on one of my servers that's disturbing me: some areas are being skipped VanessaE: it's a flat mapgen, runs dreambuilder (of course) VanessaE: but they're not being skipped entirely. some stuff might gen, like rocks ("pebbles") or young trees VanessaE: either way I can't understand what's failing, I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look. VanessaE: of note, the server step is set to 0.025s VanessaE: (necessary to work around a bug in mesecons) katp32: hello, can you have modpacks inside games? rubenwardy: yes katp32: I know you can't have modpacks inside modpacks but- ah, many thanks rubenwardy: the modpacks in modpacks thing is only due to the UI katp32: oh? rubenwardy: you can actually have modpacks inside modpacks in games rubenwardy: just not in mods/ katp32: ahh, that's interesting katp32: it isn't possible to have games inside games though is it rubenwardy: no lol katp32: fair enough :P katp32: hi, does anyone know of a mod that removes the crafting recipe for bronze? this is a weird issue... Jonathon: no, but its a simple enough thing you could make yourself Krock: grep -r minetest.clear_craft katp32: erm, no, I mean, there's no crafting recipe for bronze on my server, and I'm trying to figure out wh- thanks Krock Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Emojidiscord: sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11124#L671 changed * cheapie: ponders trying to run MT on a Vortex86DX3 cheapie: Pretty weak CPU and no 3D acceleration, but I've seen llvmpipe pull off some interesting things before... srinivas: looks like a sbc chip to me? srinivas: > 1ghz CWz: unable to compile latest minetest git, complains about Irrlicht MT missing. i already compiled the minetest fork of Irrlicht. y5nw: You need to specify the path to the IrrlichtMt library and include dir freshreplicant[m: Has anybody else had issues with being unable to turn off opaque water on 5.4 while using the rpg16 texture pack? sfan5: if the texture pack provides an opaque water texture you won't be able to turn it transparent sfan5: (since 5.4) Danil_2461: thats because of how they changed transparency works freshreplicant[m: Oh, that's frustrating. I think rpg16 is not actively maintained, but it's very popular and has amazing mod support. Danil_2461: now the transparency is supplied directly from the texture Danil_2461: cool appguru: opened an issue appguru: I wonder whether MTG or RPG16 should fix this freshreplicant[m: I've never really messed with textures, is there an easy way to tweak my local copy? appguru: In MTG, the fix would simply be appending ^[alpha: texmod appguru: In RPG, setting an opacity appguru: It could be argued that the game should control the opacity freshreplicant[m: It would be good to preserve that functionality somehow, without having to adjust each texture pack. Danil_2461: well thats how it was in 5.3 Danil_2461: i think they shouldve kept it as is, or atleast only add the texture transparency from the texture without touching the alpha texmod appguru: Well, everywhere the alpha = number field in a nodedef was used, all tiles should have instead gotten the alpha texmod, and the alpha mode properly set. Danil_2461: and if the texture already has transparency the alpha texmod wouldnt be active appguru: ah wait freshreplicant[m: It took me surprisingly long to realise what was going on. I just kind of thought Minetest was uglier than I remembered. appguru: it's not called [alpha but [opacity appguru: classic case of minetest consistency appguru: there's noalpha and makealpha but of course this one had to be called opacity Danil_2461: m Danil_2461: lol Danil_2461: isnt alpha and opacity same thing? appguru: pretty much Danil_2461: cool freshreplicant[m: So if I take the water texture on my copy of rpg16 and give the image some level of transparency, it should work? Danil_2461: ? Danil_2461: yes freshreplicant[m: Cool, will do that for an immediate fix. Danil_2461: mhm rm369: Hi, I get an error in unified_inventory_plus. Anyone here who could help me? rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod '' in callback on_joinplayer(): ...ds/1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory_plus/craft_all.lua:15: attempt to p rm369: erform arithmetic on field 'imgscale' (a nil value) rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: ...ds/1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory_plus/craft_all.lua:15: in function 'craft_organize' rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: ....minetest/mods/unified_inventory_plus/craft_organize.lua:10: in function 'craft_rotate' rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: ...1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory_plus/craft_rotate.lua:11: in function 'craft_clear' rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: .../1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory_plus/craft_clear.lua:11: in function 'get_formspec' rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: ...i/worlds/1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory/internal.lua:84: in function 'get_formspec' rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: ...i/worlds/1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory/internal.lua:263: in function 'set_inventory_formspec' rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: .../worlds/1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory/callbacks.lua:25: in function <.../worlds/1/.minetest/mods/unified_inventory/callbacks.lua:12> rm369: 2021-03-27 15:59:19: ERROR[Main]: /usr/share/games/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:429: in function sfan5: !mod unified_inventory_plus MinetestBot: sfan5: There are no results for this query :( sfan5: hm seems to be https://github.com/bousket/unified_inventory_plus sfan5: you are running incompatible versions of unified_inventory_plus and unified_inventory sfan5: update both sfan5: VanessaE: I've seen people on the forum have the same issues, wonder if it wouldn't have been better to have explicit compatibility checks rm369: Thanks! Should have tried that out first. Sorry :) VanessaE: sfan5: eh, I didn't figure there'd be much of a point since one could just downgrade UI until such time as those mods that depend on it all have been patched VanessaE: though UIP is one of them :P VanessaE: skinsdb, UI+, armor, and invsaw all work with it now, others shouldn't be an issue VanessaE: sfan5: though, that said, at Krock's suggestion I did put in a version number during the rewrite, so it IS possible for UI-using mode to check if they want. Krock: weird leave but OK VanessaE: He sensed me talking about him ;) Krock: VanessaE: d'uh I hope not! VanessaE: :P mmuller_: Anyone know anything about MineClone2 here? I see an insane amount of lag on clients running on the same network -- like 20 seconds for a mined block to be reflected in the client. mmuller_: This doesn't happen in MTG. calcul0n_: all mc2 servers i know are very laggy, i guess the game is just not well optimized (yet?) calcul0n_: 20s is common during huge lag spikes mmuller_: calcul0n_: thanks, I thought it might be a known issue mmuller_: seems particularly bad for the crafting menu, to the point of being unusable. Jordach: it's more that the servers are complete potatoes trying to run something large and heavy with little to none in optimisation of executing Lua andrew: Anyone has a good idea on how to build (run) minetest on a rpi 4 8gb edition? Mainly used as a server not a client (my pi is head andrew: *headless) andrew: I’m not familiar with cross compiling, but it also seems that the pi compiles faster than my daily computer sfan5: you can just compile it on the rpi as usual andrew: I get problems such as not finding postgresql, irrlicht and others sfan5: well, install them? sfan5: if you need them that is, postgres is optional rubenwardy: andrew: the Minetest engine only gives you an API to define your own moving objects rubenwardy: there are mobs mods which have higher level APIs for making mobs, such as mobkit or mobs redo andrew: *Sorry, i meant generic mods, not mobs, typo rubenwardy: or you can use the entity API to make your own behaviour rubenwardy: ah rubenwardy: !book rubenwardy: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/ andrew: The bot seems down? andrew: thanks! rubenwardy: !book MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Minetest Modding Book - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/ rubenwardy: thanks Norkle: push mod? andrew: Awh my typos big_caballito: sure is quiet recently sfan5: must be the weather Ingar: everybody got addictted tot valheim Sven_vB: hi :) Sven_vB: I'm looking for a mod with a chest that displays its first (top left) item's icon on all its sides. does anyone know one? DS-minetest: no Sven_vB: what would ne the way to make my own? combining chest code with item frame code? DS-minetest: register your own node DS-minetest: you might be able to copy some of the mtg chest code DS-minetest: and add entites like in the item frame code, yes Sven_vB: thanks! calcul0n__: there's also a drawer mod, you could use it as example calcul0n__: or maybe it's just the mod you're looking for :) Sven_vB: calcul0n__, I'll have a look, thanks! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Translate chatcommand delay message and replace minetest with core (#… 13fc1512c https://git.io/JYYpV (152021-03-26T19:59:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Adjust build config for Irrlicht changes (again) 136a26d6d https://git.io/JYYpw (152021-03-26T19:58:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop irrUString from MT, it's owned by irrlicht now 13298bb3d https://git.io/JYYpr (152021-03-26T19:58:45Z) tech_exorcist: tech_exorcist: POV: you're out of fuel tech_exorcist: *small brain* go find some fuel in your (survival) world tech_exorcist: *big brain* write a mod that adds a "self-refilling" furnace fuel block and use that tech_exorcist: tech_exorcist: tech_exorcist: POV: you're out of fuel tech_exorcist: *small brain* go find some fuel in your (survival) world tech_exorcist: guess what I did :-) Warr1024: galaxy-brain: just write enough mods and your game plays itself tech_exorcist: lol TechDude: hello TechDude: i have a major problem here TechDude: im trying to compile minetest 5.4.0 on raspberry pi TechDude: but apperently i cant for some reason oneplustwo: what's the error? sfan5: the client or the server? TechDude: it happens when i do cmake oneplustwo: are you building for server? TechDude: i tried cmake and snapdboth gimme some sort of error TechDude: and yes i am building for server oneplustwo: do -DBUILD_SERVER=1 TechDude: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_CLIENT=FALSE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE TechDude: ok lemme see TechDude: er wait oneplustwo: it's the same oneplustwo: nvm TechDude: actually idk if thatll work TechDude: i tried cmake ., cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE, etc oneplustwo: is run_in_place necessary? TechDude: i tried it and without it oneplustwo: you tried cmake . -DBUILD_CLIENT=FALSE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE? TechDude: about a year ago minetest compiled fine (although it was 5.3.0) now it wont TechDude: and yes TechDude: er add run in place oneplustwo: i compiled 5.4.0 on a raspberry pi with no problems a few weeks ago TechDude: is there anywhere i can paste full error log? oneplustwo: pastebin maybe TechDude: ok TechDude: https://pastebin.com/sSGVmyZp sfan5: did you clone just a few minutes ago? sfan5: you're missing irrlicht in any case, but it should tell you more clearly TechDude: umm how do i include irrclit or whatever sfan5: apt-get install libirrlicht-dev TechDude: finally thx TechDude: for some reason it dosent include that install on the readme.md sfan5: libirrlicht-dev isn't entirely correct since we have our irrlicht fork these days but it still works sfan5: that's why it's not listed TechDude: oh sfan5: it will work tho TechDude: soo umm er actually i regret compiling only the server lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix broken include check and correct Gitlab-CI script 135f4c78a https://git.io/JYOmU (152021-03-26T22:12:19Z) sfan5: if you want a client on RPi I can suggest just downloading this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11116#issuecomment-805907542 TechDude: ok ill check it out TechDude: *annoyed* TechDude: Building the client with upstream Irrlicht is no longer possible. TechDude: great cant find bzip lib Hawk777: apt install all-of-the-things-dev Hawk777: In this case probably libbz2-dev or something similar TechDude: YES FINALLY! MisterE, Modder of Sorts: seems to be working, thx much. Seriously, something should be mentioned about that in the build instructions. I would never have gotten that myself sfan5: we'll definitely improve that before 5.5 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: one thing I notice: I cant see the entire name of the server, if it is long, on the serverlist. an improvement would be to make the serverlist box resizeable.... Dunno if thats possible MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so... currently I have to pass the full filepath of the executable in bin for it to run: doulble clicking it in the file viewer doesnt work. Is there a quick fix? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ah, fixed. You have to rename /bin/minetest to /bin/minetest.sh Emojidiscord: Are there any compiled VERY EARLY VERSION of minetest-c55 for linux? Emojidiscord: My OS: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS 64-bit luk3yx: Emojidiscord: How old? Emojidiscord: I want to try the version before Lua API luk3yx: I did make a 0.3 snap https://snapcraft.io/minetest-luk3yx-3 Emojidiscord: Will this override the new minetest? luk3yx: Nope Emojidiscord: what will the new executeable name? luk3yx: If you install it through the snap you can just run it through your application menus VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/pull/59 someone please merge this so I can close the browser tab :P TechDude: Hello TechDude: Question (again) TechDude: so I’m setting up a Minetest server on my Raspberry Pi 4B (headless) TechDude: when I compile and run, will any errors be produced because I’m headless? sfan5: assuming you build only the server, no that'll be fine hlqkj: may i ask help too, on how to diagnose an issue im having? a test server is failing to start for a LevelDB IO error/invalid argument hlqkj: how can i get more details? TommyTreasure: just out of curiosity -- is there something i'm missing regarding technic not seeming to spawn rubber trees, after upgrading from 5.3.0-stable to 5.4.0-dev and/or 5.4.0-stable? absurb: is it possible to unregister global callback functions? absurb: i unloaded a mod in a world and its globalstep function is still executing, which is causing tons of problems absurb: essentially the world is now corrupt unless i can somehow remove that callback absurb: the globalstep callback belonging to the mod* sfan5: uh wat sfan5: restart, callbacks are not persistent absurb: i did, this is genuinely confusing me too absurb: i even deleted the original mod. unless the mod's dependency is doing something weird.. sfan5: if the mod does not exist on your system it cannot be executing absurb: the console is reporting invalid entities are being spawned, and i can see exactly which line of code in the mod which registers the callback function which is trying to spawn these invalid entities absurb: this doesn't make any sense, i'm gonna have to look further at it IceDragon: entities aren't removed even if you remove the mod that spawned them IceDragon: there should be a chat command that can remove all entities (I don't know it off the top of my head) absurb: the entities aren't self-replicating nor do they spawn other entities. every 3 to 5 seconds, the console reports a bunch of invalid entities being spawned, and i can see the default billboard appearing in the world absurb: this behavior is consistent with what the mod is supposed to do, except the entities it's trying to spawn aren't valid anymore TommyTreasure: take a look at the 'mod_cleaner' mod. it has a routine to remove enties from old mobs IceDragon: if the entities spawned before (when the mod was loaded), and you saved the world, upon reload, it will attempt to spawn those entities from world's save data, it may take a bit of time between the block loading and the entities spawning in absurb: oh yeah, that's definitely possible absurb: TommyTreasure: sounds useful, thank you TommyTreasure: my suggestion was based on use, not on theory. a file called "cleanentities' contains the entity names i want to remove, and it works very well TommyTreasure: som of the syntax used in that mod for replacing unknown nodes, is a little weird, but in general, that mod has saved me many hours of hair pulling TommyTreasure: https://github.com/neko259/mod-cleaner check it out, and see if it does what you need absurb: thank you so much TommyTreasure: don't confuse it with 'server-cleaner'. absurb: lol TommyTreasure: ok, more info on my rubber tree issues..... TommyTreasure: prior to upgraded my server to 5.4.0-dev, i had both technic and moretrees installed. in moretrees, i had rubber tree disabled TommyTreasure: there have been rubber tree spawnings all through my world prior to that TommyTreasure: after upgrading to the 5.4.0 series, no more rubber trees. same configuration as used since my first map creation with 5.0.0 TommyTreasure: last night, i created a brand new map with my 'used to work' configuration, and no rubber trees spawned TommyTreasure: is this something that has changed in the 5.4.0 server, or minetest_game? TommyTreasure: for testing proof, i disabled moretrees in my test server, and techinc generated rubber trees. however. it had all worked in the past TommyTreasure: since my first installation of 5.0.0, the following line was in my moretrees/devault_settings.txt TommyTreasure: moretrees.enable_rubber_tree = false TommyTreasure: assuming that technic would generate the spawning of rubber trees in new map areas. TommyTreasure: and it has actually done exactly that sfan5: I doubt either the engine or MTG had a change so subtle that it only affected moretrees rubber trees generation TommyTreasure: i appreciate your response, but i can't see a reason they stopped spawning, when no other changes were made to my game TommyTreasure: i'm at wits end trying to figure this out TommyTreasure: i don't think the moretrees mod has changed in the past year either. as of today, git pull says its up to daye sfan5: you could test 5.5.0-dev to see if this is a bug we're aware of and that has already been fixed TommyTreasure: ah, good idea. i'm in the process of evaluating a new vps host, and this could be the perfect way to test. thanks! Noclip: Why does loading a (big) Minetest world cause lots of writings/changes scattered all across the sqlite file? DS-minetest: even if sqlite put db entries with neighbor entries next to each other in its file, minetest would still jump around in the indices because of the way how blockposs are encoded as numbers Noclip: Unfortunately this makes deduplication between several versions of the same sqlite file very inefficient. :( erstazi: quit SwissalpS: /msg erstazi try /quit :D Swift110-mobile: Hey Andrey01: why if I use 'mesh' drawtype for a node and try to define two tiles for it from which the first is simple string name and second is an animation table, the second one won`t just be applied? NathanS21: Your mesh probably doesn't have two materials defined, so there is no UV for the animation to be applied too. Andrey01: hmm, and how many tiles can I use per a mesh node? As many as materials does it have? NathanS21: I think Minetest maxes out at 6 tiles. NathanS21: My guess would be if you have more materials than defined tiles, all the extra materials will use the list tile provided, much as how Minetest textures normal nodes. Andrey01: and one material can have the only texture, yes? NathanS21: Yep Andrey01: ok, thanks, so I need just to create still a material for the second tile tech_exorcist: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mapgen tech_exorcist: "Singlenode mapgen is officially stable." tech_exorcist: actually tech_exorcist: "Singlenode mapgen is officially stable.[1]" tech_exorcist: I was expecting that "[1]" to be something like a xkcd-style "Citation needed" link tech_exorcist: :-) tech_exorcist: (just to be clear, I didn't mean to shame the developers :D) MiniontobyPI: Hi MiniontobyPI: I though about something MiniontobyPI: look at this yt video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=836B1J_gkl4 MiniontobyPI: it is about mc´s duplicate worlds in different seeds, MiniontobyPI: idk if this is also possible at minetest sfan5: who knows Warr1024: Sounds like Poincare recurrences. If these worlds really were infinite then no matter the chunk size, as long as the chunk is itself finite then any chunk with a non-zero probability (i.e. that occurs at least once) would occur an infinite number of times. Warr1024: If the entire world is the same across two different seeds then probably what you're looking at is a hash collision. tech_exorcist: how can I make a recipe (minetest.register_craft()) return a higher-than-one amount of elements? sfan5: output = "default:pine_wood 4", tech_exorcist: ok tech_exorcist: then I messed up something else tech_exorcist: I had already tried that tech_exorcist: thanks :D tech_exorcist: it's default:water_source, NOT default:water tech_exorcist: oops TechDude: Hello I have a quick question TechDude: so I want to register a node, do I have to register a craftitem AND a node? TechDude: Im not sure... 🤔 Jonathon: :thonking: Jonathon: if you want a placeable node in the world, you jsut register a node Jonathon: there are ways to make a craftitem place a already registered node if you need that functionality for some reason TechDude: So if I register a node, don’t need to register a craftitem? TechDude: I can directly use minetest.register_craft to register a recipie for that node? Jonathon: yes TechDude: Ok thx Jonathon: for example a craft item is like the ore you get when dig default:stone_with_ore, it doesnt really physically exist in the world, its just in your inv/chests/etc Andrey01: NathanS21, I`ve defined two materials and two UV maps for that node, but the second tile doesn`t work Andrey01: I installed newer b3d exporter for 2.8 from here: https://github.com/GreenXenith/io_scene_b3d but my model has got to look like as in closed #9013 ... ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9013 -- Mesh Rendering is... broken? Andrey01: I don`t remember how I could solve that problem in that issue NathanS21: Not sure how well that .b3d exporter supports multiple materials, as I've never used them with it. I usually do multiple materials on OBJs NathanS21: You should assign two materials to the mesh, each on their own part of the mesh. Andrey01: I don`t know how to assign material to specific part of mesh, just select that in Edit mode and add material? Andrey01: and so will it be assigned? NathanS21: yep NathanS21: I think there is a button that you'll see in edit mode that says Assign. Andrey01: yes, I see it NathanS21: https://youtu.be/6PH6t47LFJE NathanS21: If you need further visual help. NathanS21: :) NathanS21: Just a video I made on the subject at one point. Andrey01: thanks GreenXenith: The b3d exporter should(tm) multiple materials. I have done it before, no reason it should be broken now. hdjxiike: Hello friends, whats new in minetest? 12,4 Krock: hdjxiike: some code is new hlqkj: brother! Krock: bröther where are my lööps tech_exorcist: nice /s! now, according to the Minetest game launcher, the init.lua file of a mod I'm writing as an exercise contains invalid UTF-8 rubenwardy: what's the error? rubenwardy: it's it about byte order marks? tech_exorcist: from debug.txt: "unexpected symbol near ''" rubenwardy: where is the symbol in the file? rubenwardy: It's probably fine on IRC rubenwardy: or maybe the byte value would be useful tech_exorcist: I'm trying to find it with xxd tech_exorcist: hmm tech_exorcist: it may be 0xC2 sfan5: !c '\xc2' MinetestBot: 'Â' tech_exorcist: I ended up finding it out with the `less' utility sfan5: hm wait rubenwardy: is it at the beginnning of the file? tech_exorcist: there should be no such character in that init.lua tech_exorcist: no sfan5: !c (b'\xc2').decode('utf-8') MinetestBot: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: unexpected end of data tech_exorcist: it's around the last line sfan5: yeah it really is invalid tech_exorcist: actually rubenwardy: perhaps resave the file tech_exorcist: it IS on the last line tech_exorcist: I tried tech_exorcist: didn't work rubenwardy: maybe also delete the last few characters and type again tech_exorcist: tried that too tech_exorcist: I'll retry rubenwardy: maybe another code editor would help? tech_exorcist: let's see big_caballito[m]: are you using windows notepad? tech_exorcist: no tech_exorcist: I usually use nano big_caballito[m]: try saving as ANSI instead of utf8? big_caballito[m]: idk rubenwardy: nano is the sort of editor that will cause this, with terminal issues tech_exorcist: wtf? sfan5: don't think nano has a charset selection rubenwardy: I often find that it truncates lines sfan5: if by truncates you mean it breaks them apart, that's a feature big_caballito[m]: yaeh use vim u wont have these probably tech_exorcist: I don't have vi(m) here big_caballito[m]: problem* big_caballito[m]: sfan5: like sneak glitches were a feature of minetest? lol rubenwardy: I don't mean the word wrap big_caballito[m]: I just noticed this: big_caballito[m]: > Latest version: 5.1.0 big_caballito[m]: someone wanna fix the IRC heading thing? rubenwardy: interesting rubenwardy: if it synced from matrix to IRC, why not the other way around tech_exorcist: the file is 886 bytes big, and the invalid byte is indeed 0xc2, at the position 819 tech_exorcist: there's also 0xb7 at 820 tech_exorcist: source: a tool I wrote to check for byte values that are higher than 0x7f tech_exorcist: hmm, how do I get a player's coordinates? doc/lua_api.txt is not helping me :-( tech_exorcist: and neither is https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest Hawk777: I have no idea, but does “minetest.get_player_by_name(name):get_pos()” not give you what you want, assuming you have only the player’s name and not a reference to the player object already (just use “player:get_pos()” in the latter case)? I haven’t tested it, just looked at lua_api.txt and it seemed like the obvious answer. rubenwardy: that is correct tech_exorcist: ok tech_exorcist: thanks! :D tech_exorcist: "attempt to call field 'get_player_from_name' (a nil value)" tech_exorcist: func = function(player_name, param) tech_exorcist: local player = minetest.get_player_from_name(player_name) rubenwardy: by name tech_exorcist: oops tech_exorcist: now it works tech_exorcist: thanks tech_exorcist: :-) * tech_exorcist: facepalms MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Can someone link me to sfan's 1-line Minetest Build script again please? sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=311160#p311160 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: thank you! MisterE, Modder of Sorts: why not officially release this in the Minetest downloads page? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: its so easy 😄 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: wait... this is only for the server? sfan5: yes MisterE, Modder of Sorts: umm... is there one for the whole package? sfan5: there is another one-line script by a community member for the client, you might have misremembered sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3837 sfan5: don't think it works with the new irrlicht yet though MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I used your script previously... It was just what I needed for my server... naw I want minetest 5.4 on ubuntu desktop, and so now it isnt what I need... I did misremember. THx. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yes... it crashes MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Reading state information... Done Package libpng12-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source E: Package 'libpng12-dev' has no installation candidate MisterE, Modder of Sorts: well, I guess I will give the official build instructions another shot sfan5: https://www.minetest.net/downloads/ sfan5: the download page has some easier alternatives for 5.4.0 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I want a portable version tho sfan5: hm MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Otherwise I would just use flatpack MisterE, Modder of Sorts: but I need multiple instances, MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so... I followed the instructions to build minetest, but it gave the error that irrlicht was not found. Ok, so I am building irrlicht inside the minetest dir. Hope that works MisterE, Modder of Sorts: nope didnt work MisterE, Modder of Sorts: user@user-comp:~/minetest$ cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -- *** Will build version 5.5.0-dev *** -- Could NOT find Irrlicht (missing: IRRLICHT_LIBRARY IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR) CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:63 (message): Irrlicht is required to build the client, but it was not found. -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred! See also "/home/user/minetest/CMakeFiles/CMakeOutput.log". user@user-comp:~/minetest$ make MTDiscord: -j$(nproc) make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. user@user-comp:~/minetest$ MisterE, Modder of Sorts: it has irrlicht all built inside the minetest folder sfan5: cmake can't guess where irrlicht is even if it's "right there" x2048: I built Irrlicht in a sibling folder and just passed -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY= -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR= sfan5: ^ yeah that MisterE, Modder of Sorts: will that make a portable version? Im worried because Im specifying a path sfan5: it will tech_exorcist: hm, the apartment mod (https://content.minetest.net/packages/Sokomine/apartment/) behaves weirdly for me tech_exorcist: when I try to rent an apartment, I see this message: "The apartment is currently rented to . Please end that first." andrew: Are you the admin of that server? tech_exorcist: I'm playing in singleplayer tech_exorcist: I wanted to try out that mod andrew: I don't think renting works in singleplayer though tech_exorcist: oh andrew: try hosting with --server --terminal and connect to yourself? tech_exorcist: hello olliy tech_exorcist: yes tech_exorcist: nothing tech_exorcist: well tech_exorcist: now the control panel behaves like most other blocks andrew: (Well, I got to go now.. I hope you could get help from others) tech_exorcist: it disappears from the wall and appears in my inventory tech_exorcist: ok, thanks anyay :D tech_exorcist: *anyway MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix attached-to-object sounds having a higher reference distance 13437d011 https://git.io/JmjGo (152021-03-23T14:43:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix broken `BiomeGen` abstraction (#11107) 132da1eee https://git.io/JmjG6 (152021-03-23T14:43:26Z) search_social: Hi, I am trying to use the "Voxelizer" mod to import a .obj file into minetest. The problem is cadnav only offers some files in .max format. Is there any way to convert a .max file to a .obj file (without buying an entire copy of 3ds max just to convert out of their format?) rubenwardy: Blender probably rubenwardy: Maybe search_social: thanks rubenwardy katp32: hello, this isn't strictly minetest related, and I sent an email to the admin already, but is there a way to change my username on the minetest forums? Kimapr: easiest way is to register a new account celeron55: send me a PM on the forum requesting that, i'll get to it eventually Andrey01: does returned offset vector of 'player:get_eye_offset()' count off its player`s position? Andrey01: relatively which point is the offset of the player`s eyes set in 'player:set_eye_offset()'? relatively to the player`s position or what? Andrey01: or relatively to the default eyes position? DS-minetest: >An argument defaults to `{x=0, y=0, z=0}` if unspecified. DS-minetest: so probably to default eye position Andrey01: hmm, but how to get the unmodified position of the eyes in world coordinates, i.e. the default one? DS-minetest: player pos + eye offset (in player properties) DS-minetest: eye_height* DS-minetest: you can't get the exact eye pos though Andrey01: do you mean '{x=player_pos.x, y=player_pos.y+eye_height, z=player_pos.z}', so? DS-minetest: y DS-minetest: or better: vector.offset(player_pos, 0, eye_height, 0) Andrey01: hmm, what benefit does that method have over just 'vector.add(v1, v2)'? As I understand from the docs it does the same DS-minetest: it's shorter Andrey01: I don`t think so DS-minetest: (and doesn't make the temporary v2, though that might be optimized away) DS-minetest: compare: `vector.offset(player_pos, 0, eye_height, 0)` and `vector.add(player_pos, vector.new(0, eye_height, 0))` DS-minetest: if not shorter, it's at least easier to read... Andrey01: well, it shortens not much DS-minetest: if you want it much shorter, localize all functions and give them very short names DS-minetest: ie. a, ..., z, _, a0, a1, ..., az, a_, b0, ... Andrey01: as IMO, they are both well-readable and almost have the identical length, almost no difference between them DS-minetest: yeah, do what u want Andrey01: thanks for help DS-minetest: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Andrey01: and I just wonder, why the position of a player is... at the bottom, not at the center DS-minetest: I think that's just a mtg thing Andrey01: it is even weird DS-minetest: or the position is always in the middle of the lower occupied node if standing on the ground, for correct client-side handling of liquids, ladders and co Pexin: i'd guess liquids, and potential variable-height avatars Pexin: important to know what they're standing on in lots of circumstances Andrey01: as my tests show, the player position is at the most bottom of the player model, it is not at the middle of lower node DS-minetest: maybe somewhere in the lower node is fine enough, or maybe this is a requirement. related code: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/0a90bd8a0ec530f48e1bd9a438e24bd85cc9cd66/mods/player_api/init.lua#L18 DS-minetest: nevermind, I've found it. what I was searching for was the camera offset absurb: will minetest ever have an auto-updater? VanessaE: that's your OS's job VanessaE: applications should not have their own updaters. DS-minetest: + absurb: sure, but windows doesn't have one and microsoft ain't gonna add it any time soon absurb: relying on microsoft to do this is foolish VanessaE: get a better OS. TommyTreasure: batch files on a schedule should work fine absurb: i admire your integrity and your strong activist stances, like an ant pushing a tricycle, but let's be practical here VanessaE: ... absurb: unless minetest gets put on steam, it's going to be a black sheep among other applications which do have autoupdaters VanessaE: so who's gonna pay for it? TommyTreasure: write a batch file to do the upgrading for you VanessaE: and for it to get on the apple store properly? VanessaE: and all the other places people want, where it costs money? VanessaE: (I assume it costs on steam) absurb: i have no idea how it works on steam anymore, after the greenlight system went kaput and steam became a free-for-all for developers TommyTreasure: btw, what part of minetest are you wanting to have upgraded automatically VanessaE: like I said, it's the OS's job to update applications. for an application to be able to do so itself implies that it must occasionally get root/admin level access TommyTreasure: if i recall, the main game engine is only released 2 times a year in the stable version VanessaE: (on a properly-functioning OS anyway) VanessaE: TommyTreasure: close to that yeah TommyTreasure: so what's the issue? doesn't seem to make sense TommyTreasure: mods are the equiv to other games' 3rd party plugins, TommyTreasure: and some you many not want to auto upgrade without verifying they work properly TommyTreasure: either way, some sort of batch file or script will do the upgrade for you VanessaE: I just run a script when I want to update all my mods, which reaches out to github/gitlab/etc, and that script is quite simple. TommyTreasure: there are some mods you need to be careful with upgrades, especially when they merge or push a branch into master, and you don't follow through with your research VanessaE: yep absurb: i like that, keeping lua mods updated automatically absurb: that's something an OS will never do for you Jonathon: you can update via cdb Jonathon: if you really dont like git TommyTreasure: i hate to say this, but there's one mod that has changed its master branch just this week. if you auto-upgrade that one, you now have a very broken mod VanessaE: absurb: fail. I could just tie that script to crontab and have it run daily, weekly... hell, every 17 minutes if I wanted. TommyTreasure: lol, full game backup every 15 minutes absurb: you and i are programmers, most people toying with minetest aren't going to have the expertise for this TommyTreasure: i'm not a programmer VanessaE: I'm a programmer but it doesn't take a programmer to write a script like I use. TommyTreasure: dos batch file programming is very hard to learn, and neither are the basic bash commands for linux scripts TommyTreasure: isn't* absurb: heh, i admire your faith in humanity TommyTreasure: fat finger <<<<< VanessaE: and it would be trivial for the minetest devs to include it with the engine if they wanted. Jonathon: update via cdb for people who dont have a brain is my suggestion VanessaE: John: right TommyTreasure: cdb isn't automated, as they're looking to do absurb: heh * VanessaE: sighd * VanessaE: sighs TommyTreasure: from my old fidonet/bbs days -- the most lazy sysop has the largest autoexec.bat file VanessaE: haha absurb: holy shit lmao absurb: some people, i swear to god VanessaE: TommyTreasure: or the largest collection of scripts :) TommyTreasure: i ran a multinode bbs, with a binkleyterm mailer front end, using a lantastic network, and all nodes booted and ran from floppy Jonathon: i mean, its not auto update, but its pressing a button VanessaE: exactly. TommyTreasure: took time to write the batch files, but it ran for years VanessaE: absurb: in any case if you think it's so important, go file an issue on github. VanessaE: maybe the devs will agree. VanessaE: (but I doubt it VanessaE: ) absurb: honestly i'm too lazy, it's such a minor detail TommyTreasure: as for minetest moving to steam, i doubt that very much. that's not a very good move for a game that steam can't make money for access absurb: if nobody else has cared, i certainly won't VanessaE: well then don't complain here about it. absurb: i'm not complaining VanessaE: either help or gtfo. Jonathon: honestly tho, someone should shove the concept of not outdate as heck software down linux package maintainers throats absurb: i was asking if there were existing plans for it VanessaE: (and yes, filing issues, done properly, is helping)_ VanessaE: [03-21 21:55] i admire your integrity and your strong activist stances, like an ant pushing a tricycle, but let's be practical here VanessaE: [03-21 21:55] unless minetest gets put on steam, it's going to be a black sheep among other applications which do have autoupdaters VanessaE: yeah, nop. VanessaE: this ^ is not "asking" Jonathon: there was talk in a github issue for windows updates if i recall correctly, but not linux because package maintainers would scream absurb: i WAS asking VanessaE: besides, Windows has a software store don't they? Jonathon: its a joke lol absurb: lol VanessaE: doesn't it* absurb: windows store is awful Jonathon: some fool is selling 5.2 on it no less absurb: never ever use it ever VanessaE: some of us just run a decent OS :) VanessaE: (Debian ftw) absurb: sure Jonathon: the most outdated one ever absurb: anyway, bots is my hot issue i want to push for VanessaE: John: nah, not if you run the testing branch VanessaE: that's about as up-to-date as any other distro while being pretty stable. Jonathon: hmm TommyTreasure: i'll stick with my palm pilot VanessaE: heh absurb: excuse me why hasn't minetest been compiled for TempleOS? y'all are real slackers Jonathon: :thonking: VanessaE: wtf is TempleOS? absurb: damn Jonathon: a meme more or less absurb: yeah, it's a meme OS created by a schizophrenic man VanessaE: heh Jonathon: i mean, its pretty impressive what he did do from scratch ish absurb: kinda. it took him 10 years to essentially create something on-par with the C64's "Kernal" on x86 absurb: i'm literally shaking rn i can't believe minetest is not on gaystation and xcocks noooooooooooo VanessaE: wtf Jonathon: :NowHwhatTheHeck: Jonathon: seems just ment to provoke tbh TommyTreasure: well, that kills my interest here for the day. g'nite all VanessaE: night Tom. absurb: shitposting aside, i recall there was discussion on how to properly implement mobs in the engine, or some kind of API for it Jonathon: looks at mobkit absurb: mobkit is hot ngl VanessaE: or TenPlus1's mobs Jonathon: no, just no VanessaE: what? mobs_redo works pretty well I thought. VanessaE: my players seem to like it GreenXenith: Your players also dont care about massive load times and shoddy performance VanessaE: hey now Jonathon: limiting and overhead you dont need GreenXenith: mobs_redo = lag GreenXenith: its a simple equation Jonathon: lol VanessaE: how is mobkit any better tho? GreenXenith: It isnt, really GreenXenith: It is also a mess GreenXenith: People that praise it like the best replacement ever just want something different Jonathon: it does give you way more control Jonathon: and less overhead GreenXenith: Sure, it has upsides GreenXenith: But it also has downsides glances at code Jonathon: also, is there a mod you dont have something to complain about? VanessaE: heh GreenXenith: Sure. Bakedclay. VanessaE: he'd complain about ilights too :) Jonathon: *non simple mod? absurb: i suppose a large contention about mobs is in how it would be implemented into the base game if it were implemented in any official capacity VanessaE: it never will be absurb: yeah VanessaE: because "the base game" is frozen GreenXenith: How do you define non-simple, wsor? Jonathon: more than registering basic nodes GreenXenith: WorldEdit is pretty solid VanessaE: engine devs want people to play other MT-related games, not just mtg Jonathon: hmm, yeah GreenXenith: Ethereal is absurd in a lot of places but functionally reasonable VanessaE: (which is to say they don't like that minetest_gam is considered the "base game". Jonathon: tho it has stagnated in terms of new commands absurb: shit, when i say "base game" i meant the engine GreenXenith: Villages is alright too absurb: i kinda didn't want to imply the C++ part of the engine, though Jonathon: nothing is perfect 🤷‍♂️ GreenXenith: People should use the term "builtin" more often ;p Jonathon: ^ GreenXenith: builtin is the Lua part of the engine VanessaE: absurb: it would take both. the engine would need changes, and games would need to supply the content i.e. that actual models/textures/behavior GreenXenith: >engine change absurb: of course GreenXenith: doubt GreenXenith: Oh, also Air Sword is obviously the most perfect mod in the world. GreenXenith: Literally no flaws absurb: what games do with mobs isn't particularly important for now Jonathon: its the most efficient mod for minetest ever VanessaE: Green: I mean for what he wants, which is obviously motion/paths and AI as part of the engine, and general behavior, look, etc being part of the game GreenXenith: > i kinda didn't want to imply the C++ part of the engine, though VanessaE: no, but that's still what it would take absurb: yeah GreenXenith: Why? VanessaE: otherwise if it's all Lua it may as well continue to be a mod. GreenXenith: Well of course GreenXenith: builtin is basically mods VanessaE: which means it has no point in being part of the engine package. GreenXenith: Correct GreenXenith: The only thing the engine needs is better default pathfinding. I mean you can make super fast Lua pathfinding, but it would still be even better if the engine did it right VanessaE: *nod* GreenXenith: Entities already have the capacity to be amazing mobs, people are just bad at using them absurb: personally i don't think the engine would need many changes, except improvements to the pathfinding algorithm. mod makers have shown they can already build the whole API in lua GreenXenith: Also no mob implementation has utilized an Entity Component System, which would seriously boost performance GreenXenith: (re perfect mods: Digilines is pretty good, ignoring the fact that it uses Mesecon style wiring. Hoppers also work just fine.) absurb: building it into the engine would definitely allow for performance boosts which mods and games can't accomplish alone absurb: the reason i think adding something like this would be worthwhile is because it would be utilized the same way, for example, privileges are absurb: a centralized way which would let mods work with each other and not clash absurb: mobs using two entirely separate systems would have completely unknown interactions, if at all absurb: if any at all* absurb: i hope i speak for everyone when i say mob infighting is fun to watch and even more fun to instigate absurb: but, like i said, i think there would be too much disagreement on how it should be implemented. and besides, API mods seem to work well enough for this LoneWolfHT: Is it just me or is this user broken? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=376792#p376792 luk3yx: Could it be a deleted user? Warr1024: It looks like the server list might be ignoring the Accept-Encoding header when deciding whether to return the server list JSON gzipped. Warr1024: (either it or some reverse proxy or CDN or something) sfan5: entirely possible Warr1024: It does now strike me as a bit odd that --compressed is not enabled by default in my curl cmdline tool. Warr1024: HTTP requests w/o compression support are pretty much an anachronism these days Warr1024: Compressed responses w/o compression-enabled requests is definitely wrong, but I don't know if it's really worth fixing anyway. sfan5: should be fixed now anyway Warr1024: Oh, thanks tech_exorcist: where is Minetest's client↔server communication protocol's documentation, if there is any? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/protocol.txt tech_exorcist: thanks! :D sfan5: somewhat interesting: map positions mapped to heat (X) and humidity (Y) used by biome gen thus showing a Voronoi diagram of biomes sfan5: https://i.imgur.com/wOCNukS.png leo_rockway: I thought the biome transition was subtle, not sharp like that. leo_rockway: unless that's not minetest? sfan5: the heat/humidity noise takes care of subtle transitions, here it's just a linear function Warr1024: it's a verynoice diagram leo_rockway: sfan5: gotcha. Thanks. Herkules: Hello, i have a quick modding question: Herkules: Is there a method or function that gives me the unix-timestamp? sfan5: os.time(os.date("!*t")) sfan5: or maybe just os.time() sfan5: (I googled "lua unix time" for that) Herkules: Thank you very much for that quick answer. It does work :) Herkules: Now i look like a fool. I somehow thought that i can't call os in my mods. sfan5: they're indeed sandboxed but harmless functions are left in Herkules: Nice to know for future projects. Jonathon: servers that use something like chat3 are greatly appreciated, makes pms and some other stuff green to stand out cheapie: Jonathon: It's possible to manipulate the chat colors and stuff on the client side too - "chat6" is an old client mod I made to do that a while back, and recently fixed so it works with modern clients again: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/chat6 Jonathon: well yes, but most servers disallow csms and take a dim view of you patching your client to do so cheapie: Huh, can't say I've ever seen a server that totally blocked (as opposed to just restricting) CSMs. TommyTreasure: Jonathon, does your chat6 allow for the client to make up for color blindness issues? Jonathon: :thonking: chat6 is not my mod, but cheapies TommyTreasure: meaning, configuring Jonathon: and its a csm TommyTreasure: i knew that, but i had read you made the latest changes. sorry Jonathon: i have never commited anything to chat6 lol cheapie: I'm the only one that's ever done anything with chat6 (not to be confused with chat3 or any other numbers) :P TommyTreasure: i haven't used anything other than default, but i did add mt.conf to strip colors in chat cheapie: I called it "chat6" because it's meant to make the chat look sorta like HexChat - does timestamping, nick coloring (same algorithm as HexChat so it picks the same colors), and highlighting. TommyTreasure: i almost lost a great moderator over that, but in the end, he passed away., sad day smallfoot-: It's nice with patches and mods, but its even nicer when things just work well out-of-the-box TommyTreasure: minetes is all about the mods cheapie: Does require that the server allows CSMs, but des cheapie: Does require that the server allows CSMs, but doesn't require any special access. TommyTreasure: i think my conf is set for the default csm restrictions. can't remember smallfoot-: mods is great for advanced users, but we casual players don't care for mods, we just want a good experience TommyTreasure: mods are super simple to install and configure in single player mode cheapie: smallfoot-: Unfortunately the devs seem to disagree with that, with the whole thing as branding it as "just an engine". TommyTreasure: if it weren't for the mods, every minetest server would be exactly alike TommyTreasure: makes for a boring game, don't you think? VanessaE: if it weren't for mods, every server would consist of nothing but unknown nodes :P TommyTreasure: lol, and some mods do the same thing LOL cheapie: VanessaE: I think air is built-in. You get air. :P VanessaE: well yeah Jonathon: well, technically minetest games exists but they are collections of mods smallfoot-: maybe minetest is great for devs, ops and long time players, but for casuals it sucks. I don't care about mods, I play on "Catlandia", why? because its the first entry in the world list. smallfoot-: when my friends login, or out, I have no idea if they are on, because there is no VIP list where you can add your buddies smallfoot-: on WhatsApp, Discord, Facebook Messenger, you can open a private conversation with someone, super easy, in Minetest its very difficult, you cant open a PM window/tab, you have to write their name always smallfoot-: i want to find my friend, or my friend wants to find me, but we got no idea how to find each other in this huge world, there is no beacon or way to find each other TommyTreasure: you're commenting in the wrong place smallfoot-: i get stuck in some place and cant get out, i get frustrated, i have no idea how to escape smallfoot-: there are supposedly a bunch of commands, but i don't know about them, when i type / and press key, there is no autocompletion TommyTreasure: besides, if you're experienced enough to join an irc channel, then you should have no problems learning your way around the minetest keyboard shortcuts TommyTreasure: try typing the first letter of their name first, then press tab smallfoot-: its hard, it takes time, i have to google, i have to come here and ask, i shoudln't have to, i should just be able to play smallfoot-: then i hae to type their first letters and tab every time, on IRC i just open a PM window and its so much easier to write TommyTreasure: there are tons of "let's play" videos on youtube. i'm sure one or more will help you find what you need smallfoot-: because the chat is transparent with no background, its very hard to see the text TommyTreasure: i have an idea! write your own minetest client! smallfoot-: yeah, but i feel like this game is too hard and too noob-unfriendly, you sholdn't hae to do research and homework just to play a game, games are suppose to be fun smallfoot-: i have no idea how to code, im a gamer not a programmer VanessaE: or here's an idea: file an issue about it. make an official feature request smallfoot-: they should make this game so its user friendly even for 5 year olds VanessaE: no. VanessaE: sure as fuck not aiming at 5 year olds (or generically, children) TommyTreasure: ok, let's be truthful. i have 7 and 8 year old players, that have never played minetest, or any other game like it, and they blow the doors off some experienced players. stop complaining, and start learing smallfoot-: so then its just minecraft for neckberds and trannies? VanessaE: trannies? VanessaE: wut TommyTreasure: lol smallfoot-: yeah, no real girls is gonna play a game where they need to do research and homework VanessaE: ok no VanessaE: that stops right not VanessaE: take your bigoted bullshit somewhere else TommyTreasure: the day you stop learning, is the day your life is over TommyTreasure: is there a full moon? VanessaE: that's the ONLY warning you get, smallfoot- smallfoot-: okay smallfoot-: and there is no user interface for commands, just type commands like unix terminal, its for neckbeards, its not user friendly, maybe you need like learn shell scripting to play the game too VanessaE: um, no smallfoot-: so why does it have to be user-unfriendly and hard for casual gamers who just wanna play without do research? VanessaE: my servers have plenty of kids and they seem to have no trouble figuring out how to play smallfoot-: maybe they're not kids, maybe they're midgets with beards playing on freebsd smallfoot-: they're just roleplaying as kids VanessaE: ok no VanessaE: wtf is wrong with you smallfoot-: im just a casual gamer want to play and have fun TommyTreasure: smallfoot-, you were smart enough to find how to cloak your nick at freenode. please learn how to play the game smallfoot-: and this game is difficult and alienating smallfoot-: its not inclusive to casual gamers VanessaE: yeah and it's not inclusive to gamers who want blood guts and gore VanessaE: or gamers who want to race cars smallfoot-: yeah because I spent all my research time learning IRC, so i don't have research time over to learn how to play a game, i just want to play it and have fun VanessaE: or gamers who want to go around gobbling glowing dots and multi-colored ghosts. TommyTreasure: hey, i have all those things on my server!!! smallfoot-: well there might be some server which has a mod for that sfan5: i'll say this: servers have the ability to provide many of the features you ask for right now, this is not on minetest because it's just an engine smallfoot-: so the i have to try out all 1000 servers to find one that doesn't suck? sfan5: and before you say that it should be built-in: no, every feature under the sun cannot possibly be shipped with it VanessaE: mods are a core principle of a lot of online games, smallfoot- VanessaE: you just know them better as downloadable content, DLC> TommyTreasure: yes smallfoot- you need to play all the servers until you find the ones you like oneplustwo: every server owner should know some basic shell commands smallfoot-: yeah, mods are great for adding new in-game content like games modes like CTF, survival, hide-and-seek, new monsters, new textures, etc... but things like having a good chat system, autocompletion for commands should be in core, not with mods TommyTreasure: smallfoot-, doesn't seem to be an admin. just a frustrated gamer that is too lazy to learn the basics of minetest sfan5: command autocompetion is one of the exceptions to this smallfoot-: TommyTreasure, yes, i am not an admin, im an casual gamer, a noob VanessaE: TommyTreasure: you know, now I wonder if anyone's ever done that -- made dots-and-ghosts i.e. Pac-man happen :) TommyTreasure: don't you have a casino mod? if so, one of these days i have to try it VanessaE: sorta smallfoot-: VanessaE, DLC is new levels, new characters, new quests, not basic client functionality oneplustwo: casino mod eh? VanessaE: mini-slots its called. has two machines VanessaE: smallfoot-: yeah and what do you think mods do on minetest? oneplustwo: i'm going to have to rate it an M because there is gambling in it TommyTreasure: cool, i still have to stop at my tetris machines smallfoot-: want to use mouse? get a mod! want to jump? get a mod! want to chat? get a mod! want to walk? get a mod! VanessaE: smallfoot-: knock it off oneplustwo: that hyperbole makes no sense TommyTreasure: want to play a computer game, don't buy a bicycle smallfoot-: minetest would better with sane default TommyTreasure: we all think you should have stayed with angry birds smallfoot-: and graphical window to pick a command, or auto-completion of commands smallfoot-: yeah, i really liked angry birds, it was fun oneplustwo: is it that hard to type a few characters? TommyTreasure: for some, i guess it is TommyTreasure: alexa doesn't work as a core dev any longer smallfoot-: I don't know which characters to type, I don't know any commands VanessaE: smallfoot-: yeah no one's gonna cater to your laziness. oneplustwo: that's what /help is for TommyTreasure: omg! that's 6 whole keystrokes to do that oneplustwo: that's what docs are for VanessaE: and there's a webpage on the wiki the describes the commands, is there not? smallfoot-: I don't want to read no docs, i don't care about docs, i have no interest in docs, im a gamer, if i wanted to read something, i would read Harry Potter VanessaE: then piss off. oneplustwo: double negative detected TommyTreasure: smallfoot-, did you know that if you delete all the readme.txt files on your computer, you could save disk space? smallfoot-: yeah im gonna play roblox and minecraft instead, then you can just play and have fun and not have to do research and read manuals VanessaE: NO ONE is gonna help you if you don't want to even look at the most basic of documentation, which NEARLY ALL GAMES came with when I was growing up TommyTreasure: ah, tower topler on my c-64 was great! smallfoot-: you grew up the 1800 century smallfoot-: i have ADHD, i cant read oneplustwo: that's impossible oneplustwo: nobody can live that long VanessaE: I grew up in the 1980's, smallfoot- TommyTreasure: and i'm deaf dumb and blind. Tommy -- The Who smallfoot-: which means you are OLD VanessaE: when microcomputers were just getting their start smallfoot-: and you built your own computer VanessaE: I'm only 47, I'm not THAT damn old. smallfoot-: and glued it together oneplustwo: people still build their own computers smallfoot-: and it has a screen resolution of 16x16 pixels VanessaE: 320x200 actually. VanessaE: knock off the hyperbole. TommyTreasure: yeah, but now we use duck tape and glue sticks to fix them smallfoot-: times change, gaming is not only for neckberds, its for casual gamers too now VanessaE: TommyTreasure: wait, you've been helping Opar fix his 3d printer? ;) TommyTreasure: lmao oneplustwo: does "casual gamers" mean "complete blockheads" in your definition? VanessaE: smallfoot-: well if all you want is tap-and-drool gaming, go look up something on your favorite app store. oneplustwo: piano tiles 4 smallfoot-: i don't know what "complete blockheads" mean, but im stupid TommyTreasure: he needs a visit from one of the microsoft repair call centers TommyTreasure: sorry, that was low TommyTreasure: but worth it smallfoot-: yeha, im gonan play roblox and minecraft, then you can just have fun, this minetest game is only for neckberds TommyTreasure: ya know, if you had said that on my server, you would have been banned oneplustwo: roblox is just the right level for you oneplustwo: where all the drooling 8 year olds on iPads dwell smallfoot-: and on minetest you have to register an account on every server which sucks, on discord you can just register and account and go to any server VanessaE: THAT is a per-server decision smallfoot-: oh, i didn't know VanessaE: not all servers demand passwords. TommyTreasure: oh man, i'll have to report that registration thing to the core dev team. they'll just have to fix that just for you VanessaE: mine do because I don't want idiots taking over each others' accounts. smallfoot-: imagine if you could buy a house in minetest with bitcoins TommyTreasure: you can. how much do you want to spend? oneplustwo: a dirt house starts at 5 bitcoins VanessaE: haha smallfoot-: 0 i dont have any bitcoins only fortnite coins TommyTreasure: man, that's way too cheap oneplustwo: i believe in discount stores TommyTreasure: discount stores are for those that know how to read advertisements TommyTreasure: that's way too much work for a casual gamer. oneplustwo: what if you're too tired to move your head to look at the advert? oneplustwo: lol smallfoot-: imagine if there was a bank in minetest TommyTreasure: i want to know why i have to actually push the power button on my computer to make it work VanessaE: there is. VanessaE: there are *gasp* mods that implement money, banks, trading TommyTreasure: it should know that when i sit in my chair, i'm there to play on it smallfoot-: is Catlandia the best world? VanessaE: I maintain such a mod. a bit primitive maybe, but it works. TommyTreasure: catlandia isn't a minetest server smallfoot-: its not? i play on it TommyTreasure: its a multicraft server smallfoot-: oh, i dont know what multicraft is TommyTreasure: good VanessaE: idk about catlandia. my servers are good imho TommyTreasure: i could be wrong, and if so, sorry smallfoot-: you say ur server is good only cuz its urs? or u played others and knows urs tehe better one? VanessaE: servers. plural VanessaE: I run 8 of them, with varying content, TommyTreasure: from servers.minetest.net -- CatLandia [0.4 OR 5.0+] VanessaE: but they aren't for the likes of you, smallfoot-. they require you to read the rules and learn how to play. smallfoot-: i guess it doesnt matter what server you play on, they're only neckberds on all of them smallfoot-: yeah, im not gonna read any rules to play a game TommyTreasure: in my book, that makes it a multicraft server smallfoot-: i just click I AGREE without reading VanessaE: you can't. VanessaE: that doesn't work on mine :P smallfoot-: why not? smallfoot-: it has a test? TommyTreasure: perfect noob for my server. might last about 1 minute before a moderator banned them smallfoot-: that you need to pass? VanessaE: it requires you to read the rules, find the keyword, and use THAT to "agree" smallfoot-: TommyTreasure, so its a neckberd-only-server? oneplustwo: imagine clicking I AGREE on a form to sell your soul without reading TommyTreasure: you seem to be the real neckberd here TommyTreasure: if you don't read any of the rules on my server, you wouldn't be able to get out of spawn smallfoot-: im not the one reading the docs LOL VanessaE: and the keyword is randomized from a list every time someone looks at the rules dialog, so it can't just be given out to people VanessaE: as for best server? back in the day, redcrab.suret.net was the best. hands down. oneplustwo: guess what? the most efficient way to get information is reading TommyTreasure: i can just their first comment -- why is everything here protected? where can i build? VanessaE: and I definitely didn't run that one :P Jonathon: lol, forums are 504'ing atm smallfoot-: i never built anything, i just run around and look at things, then i get stuck somewhere and dont know what to do Jonathon: well, 504 or load, 50 50 chance smallfoot-: then i ask in the chat if someone can help me oneplustwo: maybe if you read the rules and info you could save yourself some time oneplustwo: just a suggestion VanessaE: John: they got attacked and kinda don't seem to have weathered it too well TommyTreasure: smallfoot-, is your game nickname Subway by any chance? smallfoot-: no smallfoot-: and i only play on Catlandia TommyTreasure: you sound just like a player i banned yesterday TommyTreasure: then why are you here complaining? go play catlandia smallfoot-: maybe it was just a boy who wanted to play and have fun smallfoot-: not have to go by ur dictatorship rules smallfoot-: and ban playrs who dont do this, dont do that VanessaE: life is full of rules, smallfoot- VanessaE: get used to it. smallfoot-: yeah, hitler had a lot of rules too TommyTreasure: ya know, i built my server with rock and roll. oh wait that was a song smallfoot-: nobody liked him TommyTreasure: +1 that one was way overboard VanessaE: TommyTreasure: well, at least some unnamed *city* was built on rock & roll :) TommyTreasure: i always liked that tune, even though the group didn't care for it VanessaE: a number of radio stations had their own version of it too VanessaE: they'd dub-in their own DJ jabber in place of the bridge TommyTreasure: same out here. but i still liked the song TommyTreasure: glad you banned him. my pulse just shot to over 130 VanessaE: folks here know I don't pull out the ban hammer often VanessaE: but that guy just crossed the line TommyTreasure: their last comment was the straw for me. TommyTreasure: when that comment was posted, i had to raise my o2 to 5 l/min VanessaE: haha timdorohin: VanessaE: lol TommyTreasure: << seriously. i just came home from emergency a few days ago from breathing issues VanessaE: and no one noticed that I keep swapping between VanessaE: IRC and discord, just as a little joke? timdorohin: VanessaE: i think we need a bot for godwin's law auto-ban VanessaE: just to take the edge off :) Jonathon: i did, i just didnt think it was worth commenting on TommyTreasure: i almost switched to my alternate nick -- StinkFoot TommyTreasure: but i have to take 20 lashes from a friend. they think i may have triggered some bad vibes from them. if so, i'm sorry VanessaE: heh TommyTreasure: Johathon, i'm way to onery to do that LOL Jonathon: ......? TommyTreasure: to not comment to a lazy player Jonathon: ah, i was actually responding to this "and no one noticed that I keep swapping between" VanessaE: my work here is done :) TommyTreasure: too eary to say g'nite TommyTreasure: before you go, is slots compatible with 5.x? VanessaE: oh I'm still here. VanessaE: and yes TommyTreasure: i'm just too lazy to go to github/gitlab to see for myself VanessaE: though it has a couple of very minor positioning errors no doubt due to formspec bugfixes since I wrote it. TommyTreasure: a lot of mods have formspec issues with 5.x Jonathon: it depends on which versions of 5x you want to support VanessaE: it's nothing significant, just one of the reels is off by like 5px compared to normal TommyTreasure: speaking of formspecs, my co-admin has an edit for the pipeworks adj, vacuum tube, that makes it easier for mobile devices to use TommyTreasure: i'm trying to convince them to submit a pr timdorohin: btw, is there something like 'list of whining and featreqs from MT mod devs' anywhere? TommyTreasure: yeah, i think they call it the minetest forums Jonathon: lol 😛 VanessaE: heh timdorohin: 'cept from list of closed 'won't add' issues, ofc Jonathon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq86ZgTBSAw&t=6s offtopic, but i semi wish that the other had released more tracks Jonathon: i like there style TommyTreasure: sounds too mellow TommyTreasure: i've always loved the tunes that simcity used TommyTreasure: but, there's a ton of money invested in those too. not in the minetest budget TommyTreasure: VanessaE, anyway, my co-admin wrote a formspec that has a 'set' button, so mobile users could actually enter a radius, and make it work TommyTreasure: seems as if minetest doesn't allow the 'enter' key to display when the keyboard app opens VanessaE: please do file a PR on that TommyTreasure: just sent them a pm TommyTreasure: he's done a few PRs in advancedtrains, and most have been accepted too oneplustwo: if i tried to write a track for minetest, i would be called a boomer XD TommyTreasure: go for it! i'm only good for a classic rock feel, or a jazz feel TommyTreasure: and neither of those is really fitting for minetest TommyTreasure: then you would have to give license for admins to use it TommyTreasure: that's way over my current minetest payscale andrew: Hmm, how does MTBot send git pushes to the chat? cheapie: Bleh... upvalues get... interesting at times, and not always in a good way :P sfan5: andrew: it reads the github rss feeds tech_exorcist: can I register to the wiki with Tor? sfan5: you can't register to the wiki at all, we have a forum thread for account requests tech_exorcist: oh, ok tech_exorcist: (sorry for my late reply, I just got back) tech_exorcist: another question: how do I get rid of objects that are just taking up space in my inventory and chests? for example; I somehow have 50 Wheat Seeds and a whole wheat farm which is more than enough for a single player, so where do I put all those? seeds tech_exorcist: *: y5nw: Into the trash probably? tech_exorcist: I'm not in creative mode tech_exorcist: and I don't see any "trashcan" in the inventory (there is one in creative mode) y5nw: Oh. I think you can just throw the item using the (by default) Q key tech_exorcist: yes tech_exorcist: but it stays on the ground y5nw: it will disappear eventually tech_exorcist: oh tech_exorcist: thanks! :D tech_exorcist: I keep some things (such as tree leaves) to use them as furnace fuel sfan5: you can also use /pulverize Warr1024: Isn't there a /clearinv that's like /pulverize but for everything in your inventory? Just put all the good stuff away in chests and take out only the trash, then run that one command. Jonathon: yes appguru: Pulverize and clearinv should not be a part of builtin sfan5: true Warr1024: They're fine as admin tools, but I usually patch them to require a priv. Benrob0329: Yeah, some games might require the inventory to remain untouched e.g. for quest items Warr1024: Other games may mostly enforce conservation of mass (e.g. NodeCore) tech_exorcist: Isn't there a /clearinv that's like /pulverize but for everything in your inventory? Just put all the good stuff away in chests and take out only the trash, then run that one command. | not a bad idea tech_exorcist: you can also use /pulverize | let me see if I have it tech_exorcist: yep tech_exorcist: I do have /pulverize Rrixxi: hi Rrixxi: can i adversting my server here i search some peoples ;) TommyTreasure: i don't know if that's allowed, but its something i would never do Rrixxi: ok thanks rubenwardy: You should create a forum topic rubenwardy: and/or reddit post rubenwardy: make sure that your server has something unique to offer Rrixxi: okay thx rubenwardy rubenwardy: there are a lot of servers compared to players Rrixxi: on reddit minetest? Krock: it's not forbidden here, but it's unlikely to find players here Krock: also reddit.com/r/minetest or forum.minetest.net/ TommyTreasure: rubenwardy, can you pm me regarding your vps host? i'm considering a move there tech_exorcist: nice /s tech_exorcist: I just found some mese ore tech_exorcist: and guess what tech_exorcist: my inventory is full * tech_exorcist: /pulverize's something tech_exorcist: and now I have a mese pickaxe absurb: has there been any progress on a proper mob system? Jonathon: looks at mobkit Jonathon: i would say so absurb: what about bots? Jonathon: bots in what context? absurb: does minetest have any plans for fake clients? if not, i suppose i'll have to try implement it myself Jonathon: see mtbotter Jonathon: or df absurb: the problem with bots (right now) is that people just create entities that look like players, but they aren't players at all absurb: this makes means they don't obey the same game rules as real players, and mods will sometimes not recognize bots as players absurb: server-side fake clients solves this issue entirely, and would be exceptionally useful for people playing with AI, such as symbolic artificial intelligence and deep learning shenanigans Jonathon: some mods make fake players to force load areas with automation Jonathon: i believe digtron does this absurb: oh! Jonathon: however from experience i can tell you it isnt the most reliable absurb: can you elaborate what "df" is? Jonathon: well, assume im going to get yelled at, but dragonfire, aka the current "hacked" client for minetest absurb: oh right absurb: yeah, fair enough absurb: ideally i'd like to avoid REAL clients, because they're not very performant absurb: but looking at the MT code, i don't see any support for fake clients, and i can't find anybody suggesting it or anything Jonathon: im not sure about mtbotter, but i believe it striped graphical output out absurb: mtbotter may be my best option for now, although i'm definitely dreading the memory and CPU overhead Jonathon: as a client it should only use one or two threads? since it isnt doing its own mapgen hlqkj: sorry, maybe someone could help: i'm getting a ton of these, any clue what does it mean and/or how to track what the problem is? hlqkj: WARNING[Server]: active block modifiers took 226ms (processed 117 of 121 active blocks) absurb: the problem is that it's keeping a duplicate of the game world in memory, which is acceptable if there's only 1 bot, but if i wanted to run up to 16 bots, this would become a real concern Jonathon: and yeah, i would hope mtbotter strips out saving textures in memory absurb: that said, when i say "world" i mean entities and such, not just nodes Jonathon: hlqky: it means a game/mods using a abm took longer than expected absurb: i think fake clients should be something to consider adding. real clients pose a real concerns obviously since you can make them join any server, whether the server likes it or not, whereas this isn't a concern for fake clients hlqkj: ok, that's in line with my guess. but, any way to know which one? skipping the usual advice like "disable all mods and enable one at time" ? Jonathon: if your on linux grep in your mods dir for minetest.register_abm or whatever it is, and then disable those one at a time sfan5: I think the profiler can timekeep ABMs Jonathon: if you have some technical experience you can read the code to see what it does and take some more off that list hlqkj: the profiler can, i tried that, but dunno how to use that info to know which one is generating the warning hlqkj: no way to have the engine yelling which ABM caused it to print that warning? sfan5: that wouldn't be very useful, the warning occurrs as soon as more than 200ms(?) is taken for ABMs sfan5: it would tell you which abm moves the time taken from 190 to 200, but you'd want to know which mod contributed the most to those 200ms sfan5: if you have the info from the profiler you can look at which ABMs take the most time hlqkj: gotcha MinetestBot: 02[git] 04kilbith -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix segfault for model[] without animation speed 13c9eba84 https://git.io/JmFlO (152021-03-21T22:23:30Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: lua_api.txt: Fix style selector examples 13afe988d https://git.io/JmFl3 (152021-03-21T22:23:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Restore minimal normal texture support (for minimap shading) 1344ed05d https://git.io/JmFls (152021-03-21T22:22:22Z) DS-minetest: how can I find out how much a GenericCAO's mesh's vertex positions are offset? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Schematic: Properly deal with before/after node resolving and documen… 130571991 https://git.io/JmyXl (152021-03-20T12:02:15Z) tech_exorcist: what's the fastest way to mine obsidian? y5nw: Oredetect? (joking) Krock: node replacement tool Krock: or TNT tech_exorcist: ok, thanks :-) tech_exorcist: I'll stick to steel pickaxes for now owain_: BuckarooBanzai Ur server is run by out of control children who's aim seems to be maintaining an environment where sticking up for yourself is not permitted. if those four want a server all to them self's why make it public. timdorohin: tech_exorcist: fastest way is not to mine it at all, but to cast it into structures timdorohin: if you need it to build something, of course Jonathon: Really? Owain_ is complain here now after getting banned from all pandora box platforms? 🤦 y5nw: Remember 56i? ... Jonathon: Yeah....seems like a repeat or worse y5nw: Hopefully not worse VanessaE: owain_: this isn't the place for server drama. take it to the appropriate chat or to /msg owain_: well Ruggila is a CYBER bullying dictator who bans whoever she wants VanessaE: tough shit. TommyTreasure: LMAO sorry... my bad VanessaE: take it to a more appropriate chat Hawk777: Hi all! I’m trying to figure out how much program code I can load into a single Mesecons Luacontroller. I’m experimenting, but it’s kind of slow going because copying and pasting doesn’t work very well (sometimes pressing Ctrl+V inserts the thing that used to be in the clipboard rather than the last thing I copied, and sometimes it just inserts a random letter and a few tabs) so I figured I would ask if anyone knows the ex Hawk777: nswer. AFAICT from looking at the Mesecons code there isn’t a limit in there, but is there a maximum string length for a field in a formspec, or perhaps a maximum string length in a node metadata field? owain_: VanessaE thats not a nice way to a child owain_: *speak VanessaE: ... y5nw: owain_: we will see when the fact is revealed in a way that is less biased to a single side VanessaE: on the internet no one knows if you're a child and no one needs to know. owain_: nobody listen there they banned me on all pandora box channels so how can i speak about it there y5nw: Why did you get banned though? Jonathon: you could you know, private message the owner? novel concept i know VanessaE: obviously you can't. so try sending a polite email VanessaE: or give up and move on to some other server. Jonathon: also ^ owain_: VanessaE nobody knows so mind ur language Jonathon: 🤦‍♂️ VanessaE: ... VanessaE: as far as I know, this chat has no "family friendly" rule. VanessaE: so if you can't deal with a little harsh language, go somewhere else. sfan5: Hawk777: I wouldn't assume more than 64k to fit into it, however neither formspec fields nor node metadata have such a restriction Hawk777: I see. So far my experiments seem to be pointing somewhere around 256k fitting, but not sure where exactly the limit comes from. Hawk777: Just trying to decide whether to architect a large system with many Luacontrollers or just one. VanessaE: Hawk777: dare I ask what the hell you're doing that pushes a formspec string to 256k? ;) y5nw: Porting an OS to luacontrollers? VanessaE: or a LuaC's code space to that VanessaE: y5nw: maybe he's porting emacs ;) owain_: VanessaE: "go somewhere else", well... maybe it's just u or maybe u speak for the whole community? Idk.. y5nw: Eclipse Hawk777: Well, at 25 characters per line, 10,000 LOC is around 260k. 10kLOC is *not* a huge program. Hawk777: Normally one would split it up into many files, but LuaControllers don’t give that option, so :D hlqkj: about that, @cheapie: loved your last update with advanced touchscreens, yet would be nice to have the formspec_escape exposed to the luaC environment VanessaE: you see that, owain_ ? it means I DO speak for the community as a whole, from time to time. hlqkj: so far i had to use a for loop to replace chars 0\ VanessaE: (or at least for this chat) TommyTreasure: ah, the prestigious green dot award. sorry again, couldn't resist owain_: Ah so ur all scumbags then! VanessaE: *facepalm* y5nw: owain_: anyway, what's the situation? owain_: PandoraBox is the situation y5nw: I mean, I will look at it after dinner TommyTreasure: sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, once again.... but..... Hawk777: I suspect ~10kLOC is probably enough for what I want to do though. TommyTreasure: those that get banned think the admins are terrible, while those that follow the rules, love their admins and moderators owain_: banning me for no reason all i did was say "/me mayby noob1 was right" TommyTreasure: owain_, this is not the forum to discus server/admin/banning issues TommyTreasure: discuss* Benrob0329: Something tells me it was likely more than that, and something else tells me you could appeal on the forums owain_: fudge u all VanessaE: Hawk777: re: multiple files, why not use multiple LuaC's with some comms between then? Benrob0329: orwain_: No thanks, I should eat some real food first Hawk777: Well, that’s exactly what I was trying to decide. It’s a bit more annoying to do that, but if I hit the program size limit I’d have no choice and would have to do that. But I’d rather not do it for no reason. VanessaE: anyone giving odds on how long it takes him to either A. realize that was a kick and not a ban, or B. starts PMing people here to bitch about it ? :) TommyTreasure: oh you nasty moderator!!! LMAO VanessaE: BOFH, baby :) Hawk777: BOFH? You didn’t electrocute him AFAIK :D TommyTreasure: i just love the 'you banned me for no reason', then when asked the reason on their screen, its 'i don't know' TommyTreasure: so when you look it up, you find things like 'biggest troll her in ages' VanessaE: Hawk777: the day is still young :) TommyTreasure: here* Benrob0329: Hawk777: If you're on Linux, you can always select the text and use Shift+Insert to use the old X11 clipboard (which basically types it out iirc so should work) Hawk777: I am, but Shift+Insert doesn’t seem to do anything in Minetest. Hawk777: It inserts neither the selection buffer nor the clipboard buffer. Benrob0329: Huh Hawk777: I generally edit with vim so I have easy access to both buffers, with "* or "+ respectively. VanessaE: only ctrl-V ever works for me, on linux, and it has that same "paste old, then current" bug as you mentioned. TommyTreasure: just a quick thought, but maybe try a different version of your client. i've noticed copy and paste issues with my 5.4.0 windows client VanessaE: middle click paste doesn't work Benrob0329: what on earth is MT doing Hawk777: Yeah, middle-click doesn’t do anything here either. VanessaE: it's irrlicht being stupid as I understand itg VanessaE: -g Benrob0329: Can always copy twice VanessaE: AND sometimes the copy doesn't work (Or the paste doesn't), if MT or irrlicht doesn't like where it came from Hawk777: Copying more than once doesn’t seem to help. Only pasting more than once. VanessaE: like if I copy from Chrome, it will not paste at all Hawk777: Sigh, flip tables, grumble about Irrlicht, business as usual :/ VanessaE: but if I paste the copied text into a terminal or geany or sth, then recopy it, it will paste into MT then Benrob0329: Remind me why it's the application's job to handle the system clipboard? VanessaE: it isn't :P Hawk777: Anyway, thanks for the chat. I think I’ll go with a single LuaC initially—it’ll probably be enough space—and rework later if necessary. In case anyone is interested, I’m working on an autocrafting system which will store recipes, graph-search through them, and allow a single user request to potentially kick off multi-stage production with lots of Lua-controlled sorting tubes moving items into the relevant machines. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Mainmenu: Improve "Join Game" tab (#11078) 13042131d https://git.io/Jm9Xz (152021-03-20T18:48:25Z) tech_exorcist: is it possible to get the raw materials out of a crafted/smelted tool? tech_exorcist: without third-party mods tech_exorcist: in Minetest Game sfan5: nope Krock: /giveme tech_exorcist: Krock, I'm playing in a survival-ish world with damage enabled and creative mode disabled, so /giveme would be cheating :-) thanks anyway though tech_exorcist: nope | ok, thanks tech_exorcist: :-\ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Serialize tool capabilities JSON without whitespace 13531e7ef https://git.io/JmHLr (152021-03-20T21:06:17Z) smallfoot-: add dark background to the chat so you can easier see the text smallfoot-: text on transparent background is hard to read smallfoot-: add fps meter smallfoot-: add autocompletion on /commands Jonathon: someone is demanding.....and your best served making issues on the repo Jonathon: also, f5 shows you fps smallfoot-: oh thanks, this F5 i didn't know, it was hard to discover smallfoot-: getting contact with players in minetest is hard smallfoot-: the chat system is quite poor smallfoot-: its difficult to figure out how to do PM smallfoot-: and you can do local chat to everyone on your screen or who you look at, like 10x10 meter, only to whole world Jonathon: on irc.minetest.net, logs for #minetest 2019 and older seems to result in 404 error from ngix Jonathon: pnginx Jonathon: *nginx Jonathon: same for dev irc sfan5: @Bastrabun since 1pm your-land has only missed 4 announces (still a bit weird), but I'd say that's reliable enough sfan5: @Jonathon fixed Jonathon: thank you, used the way back machine for one of them Bastrabun: Any clue where exactly those announces go wrong? Does the list receive them but not add them? Or does my server not connect to the list? sfan5: the announce requests do not reach the list sfan5: well "reach" maybe too much said even, fact is I don't see them here Bastrabun: Ok, then it's on my side. Bastrabun: If they aren't even in the webserver logs, then maybe some dns or routing problem prevents me. If I wanted to find out more ... how would I proceed? Ping your machine for 24h and see if the announcement failures correspond to not received packages? sfan5: hard to say sfan5: you could try that but I don't know if the results are going to be indicative of anything sfan5: more to the point would to find out why, despite the 30s timeout, curl isn't delivering the request and what it's doing in all that time Bastrabun: Or maybe I'm doing something wrong in the config, like two settings that don't go well together. Maybe instead of having a domain name as server_address is not so good and I should have an IP address instead? Over the next few days I'll try to announce my testserver, too. And ofc change some setting to see if it matters sfan5: no that's certainly not it sfan5: perhaps if you have the option upgrading curl to a newer version could also help sfan5: anyway, good night timdorohin: okay, lol, both online viewer and godot are pretty okay with model Bastrabun: Ok, thank you & gn8 🙂 If you happen to have an idea, let me know. timdorohin: Okay, i just imported-exported model with assimp aand now everything works timdorohin: So, because model is valid for assimp, godot and even three.js but breaks MT i think this is a bug exe_virus: Obj or b3d? exe_virus: I'm assuming obj. exe_virus: Probably too many triangles or something stupid. Maybe each of your vertexes had more than 6 decimal places of accuracy? exe_virus: I know that I got b3D to crash with a 27,000 vertex object cheapie: Krock + sfan5: VanessaE wanted me to poke you two about this: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/pull/583 timdorohin: exe_virus: obj, 336 vertices in total, 10/8 digit accuracy timdorohin: also i think i've found something like #8772 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8772 -- Doesn't set selection box to the entity even if it's defined. timdorohin: with GL4.3 entity selection boxes isn't working at all andreicon: hello, probably unrelated to modding, but i'll give it a go: is there any way i can download a mod's script files from a server? i believe the mod is downloaded when connecting to the server, but how could i save the files on my computer? sfan5: only the content (items, nodes, ...) defined by the mod is downloaded when you connect to a server, not the code itself andreicon: so if were to try and find the recipes for an item would i be able to do that? said recipes are not listed in the unified inventory on the server NoNameDude: Nico's server running on v4 + v5 exe_virus: Yeah, lower your decimal place accuracy to like 3-4 and it should work, you're probably overflowing in some value somewhere AndrewYu: Is it possible to allow 0.4 clients to connect to 5.x servers? Or is it needed to use something thats not core minetest AndrewYu: I've heard of MultiCraft but I am not sure about implementing it AndrewYu: If its possible to run a 5.x server and a 0.4 server simotaniously on the same world? VanessaE: no, and no. VanessaE: what you CAN do is run two MT instances, one 0.4.x and one 5.x, pointed at different worlds VanessaE: (easily done since MT can be compiled to run from within its source dir) VanessaE: provided 0.4.x will still compile VanessaE: (Idk if there's some upper limit on its dependency versions) y5nw: You probably can still compile 0.4, but eventually the dependencies might break AndrewYu: That's sad y5nw: It can also be hard to support mods that work across multiple MT versions, and I am not sure why you can't move to 5.x andrew: 2021-03-19 13:41:38: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: Runtime error from mod 'mesecons' in callback environment andrew: _Step(): ...ndrew/.minetest/mods/digiline_stuff/digiprinter/init.lua:62: attempt to concatenate local 'msg' (a table value) andrew: Ouch timdorohin: okay, what the heck is wrong with entity collision info? timdorohin: why touching_ground=false when entity isn't moving downwards? timdorohin: when on previous on_step() it touched ground and i stopped pulling it downwards sfan5: strictly speaking, you are only touching the ground if the ground is stopping your downwards movement sfan5: hovering very close to the ground does not count as touching timdorohin: ... sfan5: if your object is supposed to be affected by gravity keeping acceleration set to y=-9.81 might be a solution timdorohin: sfan5: when two entities collides which one receive collision? timdorohin: 'cause for some reason my entity isn't receiving anything when player running in it sfan5: the entity that moves into the other receives the collision and you can't listen for player collisions (disappointing I know) andrew: Engine limitations :( timdorohin: eh timdorohin: even with player physics running on client, why not send info about collision to server? andrew: I’m waiting for the day when MT can do server linking like IRC appguru: there are already some implementations for this appguru: see https://pkg.go.dev/github.com/HimbeerserverDE/multiserver tech_exorcist: I just realized a thing about the advtrains mod: you can right-click track switches to change their direction tech_exorcist: hello hlqkj hlqkj: hello? y5nw: tech_exorcist: that's why they exist at all hlqkj: lol tech_exorcist: hello? | I was just trying to be polite y5nw: Well, you need to be able to toggle the switches for them to be usable tech_exorcist: @y5nw: up until now, I had been changing them to normal turns using the trackworker hlqkj: sorry, didn't meant to be rude, as i've been... i realized after hitting enter tech_exorcist: no worries :D hlqkj: meant to ask if we met before, i have such a bad memory that may be the case y5nw: tech_exorcist: oh? I don't think the advtrains wiki is that outdated hlqkj: no one usually greets me when i join here :) twoelk: o/ tech_exorcist: @y5nw: I haven't read it a lot though, and I may have not noticed it * tech_exorcist: checks * twoelk: greets everybody tech_exorcist: :-) hlqkj: the switches can be changed by right click them since when i used advtrains, though... that means 1.5+ years :) y5nw: hlqkj: since 2019 at least, when I started playing MT hlqkj: just for info, mese signals works too. and ofc the lua automation tech_exorcist: the wiki says this: tech_exorcist: Sometimes the switch might need to be rotated: tech_exorcist: Right-click the switch. This will rotate the rail node every 30 degrees. tech_exorcist: Repeat the above step until the switch matches perfectly the railway tracks. tech_exorcist: (end) tech_exorcist: https://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=usage:howto#switches y5nw: That's about rotating tracks to connect to adjacent ones correctly tech_exorcist: right tech_exorcist: my bad y5nw: Ah yes, track crossings are still not documented hlqkj: yup, track worker tool right click rotates hlqkj: btw, try holding the AUX/special key while doig it, surprise :) hlqkj: not sure this is documented... discovered it by chance y5nw: Oh? tech_exorcist: btw, try holding the AUX/special key while doig it, surprise :) | left click (the "change shape" operation) seems to work as usual, but right click ("change the direction") doesn't seem to do anything hlqkj: it flips hlqkj: you won't notice it on a regular track, try to turn it into a switch or curve before tech_exorcist: ok tech_exorcist: oh, now I see tech_exorcist: interesting hlqkj: saves a few clicks while making turns :) hlqkj: i love that mod... tech_exorcist: same tech_exorcist: I love trains in general TheAlchemist: Is there a way to enable the crafting menu or should I just guess how to craft different things? Jonathon: in which game, and what version of minetest? TheAlchemist: I just downloaded it yesterday, TheAlchemist: So I'd assume latest minetest and whatever the default game is Jonathon: it should tell you in the credits tab or top bar of your screen Jonathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/822498840702615592/unknown.png TheAlchemist: Let me go get my laptop and I'll tell you. TheAlchemist: 5.1.1 Jonathon: latest is 5.4.0 Jonathon: minetest game for minetest 5.4.0 has a crafting guide in it Jonathon: otherwise with 5.3.0 you would need to add something like craft guide mod Jonathon: what OS are you on? tech_exorcist: what's the difference between crafting guides and crafting recipes? I'm on Minetest 5.3.0, and I have a "Recipes" tab in my inventory sfan5: the contents of that tab is called a "crafting guide" tech_exorcist: ok sfan5: a recipe is just the way you craft an item, a crafting guide is means to show recipes that exist tech_exorcist: if I go in that tab, and click an item, I see how I can craft it tech_exorcist: hm tech_exorcist: ok TheAlchemist: I'm on Linux mint * tech_exorcist: should update TheAlchemist: The default package manager says that it's the latest version sfan5: it's the latest version that linux mint has bothered to package TheAlchemist: Yeah they're not exactly great about that TheAlchemist: Is there a dedicated repo to minetest? Jonathon: there is a ppa sfan5: only for ubuntu, you could probably make that work with mint tech_exorcist: brb sfan5: however you might want to consider https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.minetest.Minetest instead Jonathon: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable sudo apt-get update sudo apt install minetest Jonathon: https://www.minetest.net/downloads/ recomends the PPA for mint TheAlchemist: Yeah getting a opa to work on Mint is easy TheAlchemist: It has a method for doing it TheAlchemist: Yeah TheAlchemist: Okay, I'll update y5nw: You can also compile your own client if you want to tech_exorcist: back hlqkj: wb tech_exorcist: :D y5nw: tech_exorcist: wb. Now we will see how long it takes for the track crossings to be properly documented with screenshots etc tech_exorcist: maybe I could update them tech_exorcist: it's a wiki hlqkj: is there someone who can help with the mapserver thing? rubenwardy: @BuckarooBanzai BuckarooBanzai: hlqkj: shoot, but i may respond a bit later... BuckarooBanzai: Whats your issue? hlqkj: i solved it: on win-64 as having one of the js blocked bc the server was sending it with a plain text mime hlqkj: just realized there were a new version, downloaded and now it works :) hlqkj: was* BuckarooBanzai: Cool, feel free to open issues on the repo if you have any hlqkj: kk, asked here to be sure it wasn't just me doing something stupid, b4 opening an issue :) sfan5: cheapie: can't judge the functionality much but the PR looks fine to me theebi: Hello everybody, in Germany we are planning a big online event. exploreandlearn@LMZ gives you the opportunity to choose from 60+ workshops and talks on Minetest, game-based learning and coding & robotics. The event will be closed by a keynote by none other than Jane McGonigal, author of “Reality is Broken” and game-based learning expert. The conference is scheduled for May 15th, 2021 from 11 am to 9 pm German time (UTC/GMT+2). theebi: It would be great to have people from here holding sessions about learning with minetest in different perspectivs. Anybody interested? You can apply here https://www.lmz-bw.de/index.php?id=15905 Sessions in english or german. theebi: We want to have Perttu Ahola as speaker / contributor. How can we contact him? theebi: I'm Thomas Ebinger and responsible for this page collecting ideas around minetest and education http://minetestbildung.de/ We also run a server since corona Minetestbildungsnetzwerk with many interesting projects MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop old text input workarounds (#11089) 1396d4df9 https://git.io/JmXE2 (152021-03-19T17:44:32Z) tech_exorcist: hmm tech_exorcist: whenever I open Minetest, my computer starts behaving way more slowly than it should tech_exorcist: and than what it did until very recently * tech_exorcist: tests a brand-new world tech_exorcist: I guess that the world in which I built that stuff is too heavy for my computer tech_exorcist: a brand-new world with the flat mapgen doesn't make my computer behave perceivably slower Krock: @theebi if they're not on Discord, you'll have to resort to Minetest forums PMs, a /query on IRC or write him an email. Note that there are already some interviews out there which might be interesting to you Krock: also nowadays most of the work is done by various developers, whereas c_55 isn't regularly contributing any more tech_exorcist: I guess that the world in which I built that stuff is too heavy for my computer | and I guess that my computer can't digest 512px texture packs very well Krock: 1px texture packs will do just fine Krock: allow coloring 16 million different nodes tech_exorcist: it's technically true tech_exorcist: drummyfish (128px) does make the game less snappy, but not as much as Polygonia in its 512px version * tech_exorcist: downloads Polygonia in a lower resolution tech_exorcist: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19043 tech_exorcist: and I can't ask for many FPS when I have an old Intel iGPU driving a 1920x1080 monitor tech_exorcist: Polygonia 64px looks ok Krock: there's a few more hacks you could perform on very weak hardware to gain single-digit more FPS Krock: includes disabling transparency rendering stuff and z-index clearing operations Krock: but I doubt you're this desperate for frames ;) timdorohin: tech_exorcist: i'm running everything on netbook with two "atom" cores with 25-30 avg fps and i found whining 'bout perf from ppl with normal machines utterly amusing Calinou: tech_exorcist: add `undersampling = 4` to minetest.conf Calinou: it will make the game look pixelated, but can help significantly with GPU performance Calinou: if it's too difficult to see things, then use 3 or 2 Krock: Calinou: tried that on a 2008-ish iGPU but that didn't do much at all Krock: might help tho with larger screen resolutions timdorohin: oh, i remember what i've found yesterday - anybody has strange problems with OpenGL 4.3 renderer? tech_exorcist: now that I think of it, I had enabled some antialiasing thing Krock: (it's not actually an iGPU but the performance is comparable) tech_exorcist: in Minetest timdorohin: like nonexistent entity selection boxes, etc Krock: timdorohin: Irrlicht does not support anything newer than like 3.1 or 2.4 (dunno) anyway tech_exorcist: now that I think of it, I had enabled some antialiasing thing | disabling it didn't seem to do much tech_exorcist: still 20 FPS rubenwardy: timdorohin: entity selection boxes have been disabled in 5.4.0 rubenwardy: there's now a different cross hair rubenwardy: I believe there's a setting to reenable them Krock: ^ there is Calinou: timdorohin: which graphics card model are you using? timdorohin: rubenwardy: i know Calinou: and yes, that ^ timdorohin: they are enabled in my config timdorohin: and i can switch mesa opengl version and they disappear with gl > 3 timdorohin: intel hd 400 (braswell) timdorohin: compat profile 3.0, core upto 4.6 timdorohin: actually, no, with gl 3.3 they are still there timdorohin: okay damn it i can't reproduce it anymore at all tech_exorcist: what's the default value of time_speed? tech_exorcist: 20, 72 or something else? y5nw: It should be in minetest.conf.example y5nw: GitHub says 72 apparently tech_exorcist: thanks :-) tech_exorcist: I just fell in a small cave while mining in a new world I made to practice mining :-( tech_exorcist: now, how do I get out of there? tech_exorcist: I guess I'll use some cobblestone, as I seem to have a relatively high quantity of it oneplustwo: use teleport tech_exorcist: no tech_exorcist: I'd do so in other worlds tech_exorcist: I could have used /home though tech_exorcist: crap tech_exorcist: hm theebi: @Krock#0000 thank You. Found him tech_exorcist: I guess it does qualify as teleport Krock: yw timdorohin: eh, multiple objects in a single .obj file also isn't supported MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ryvnf -> 03minetest/minetest: Scale mouse/joystick sensitivity depending on FOV (#11007) 1359a1b53 https://git.io/Jm1Cs (152021-03-19T20:43:01Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Builtin: Translatable join, leave, profiler msgs (#11064) 13a8cc3bd https://git.io/Jm1C7 (152021-03-19T20:46:11Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Builtin: Italian translation (#11038) 13ee2d46d https://git.io/Jm1C5 (152021-03-19T20:45:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EliasFleckenstein03 -> 03minetest/minetest: Check for duplicate login in TOSERVER_INIT handler (#11017) 13492110a https://git.io/Jm1Cd (152021-03-19T20:45:29Z) timdorohin: another dumb question: if i attach entity to player with hitbox latger than player hitbox will that entity catch collisions before player collides with something? sfan5: no sfan5: no collision detection happens to entities that are attached timdorohin: okay, just freaking great timdorohin: we can't know collisions from player Warr1024: Even if it could work, it'd only be reliable in singleplayer timdorohin: and obvious hack around it doesn't work either GreenXenith: alternatively, fake attach entity by updating position every step :] /s Warr1024: You can tell if a player is colliding with something by manually checking, but only at the instant of a server step, and you can't really tell the path that they took to get there, unless you go for a really sloppy heuristic like assuming they just moved linearly. GreenXenith: (or rather, matching velocity/acc) Calinou: hey, I wonder if anyone made a CI setup where a mod is enabled and a headless Minetest server is run Calinou: to make sure there are no Lua API errors when starting the server timdorohin: Warr1024: how? Warr1024: I've used the fake attachment thing (there's no way to attach a waypoint HUD to a player, but no way to control nametag visibility per-observer) and it ... works okay, even in MP, but the lag judder is a bit annoying. sfan5: Calinou: yes https://github.com/minetest-mods/3d_armor/blob/master/integration-test.sh timdorohin: by manually checking position? Calinou: nice :) Warr1024: yes, manually checking position, then sampling the bounding box of the player and checking what's at various points along it (esp the corners, but also maybe a few points along the edges/faces if the bounding box is large enough) Warr1024: Most likely it's safest to just find a way to settle for an approximation Warr1024: like if you want a "player gets hurt if they touch cactus" sort of effect, you'll save a lot of headache by making the rule "player gets hurt if their body center is within 80cm of a cactus" or something Warr1024: Chances are MOST player won't notice enough difference that it would bother them, and the ones who really would are probably annoyed by all the other almost-correct-but-not-quite stuff they'll have encountered already. timdorohin: Warr1024: i'm goofing around entity physics Jonathon: it still uses 5.2? interesint Jonathon: *interesting Warr1024: If it's entities, I think you can use the moveresult thing Warr1024: you just can only use it from ent's perspective... timdorohin: and i've managed to make something like pinball timdorohin: okay, while collision isn't working for attached entities, punch event works? Warr1024: I know you can punch things that are attached, including attached to other players. I think you probably can't punch things attached to yourself...? Warr1024: I mean, generally you can't even see things attached to yourself so you probably can't point at them, which you'd have to do to be able to punch sfan5: I assume if you enable first person attachment visibility you'd be able to punch it too timdorohin: weeeeeell timdorohin: collision box doesn't support rotation timdorohin: at all timdorohin: attached object rotating all the way around but hitbox isn't Warr1024: If it's more than one server then it might be significant to point out the common factor between all of them... kilbith: Extexo: it is not possible to get rid of the underline sfan5: @Bastrabun do you happen to be here? kilbith: wrong, you can get rid of the underline by setting a `hovercolor` in the tag in hypertext[] Wuzzy: o_O Wuzzy: hovercolor? thats a ... surprise kilbith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtifpDQ-5M kilbith: (first time I presented hypertext from the EvidenceB labs) Wuzzy: its weird a property called "hovercolor" kills the underline kilbith: Wuzzy: both `color` or `hovercolor` actually Wuzzy: but what if i want to only change the color but not the underline? Wuzzy: this behavior does not seem to be documented kilbith: I guess that's not possible Wuzzy: its surprising behavior kilbith: underlined hyperlinks are very HTML 3/4 anyway Wuzzy: lol Wuzzy: we dont even use HTML 1.0 😀 kilbith: who are still using underlined links in 2021? Wuzzy: current year argument kilbith: (except RMS) kilbith: true kilbith: hypertext is still very complex as it is Bastrabun: sfan5: I'm "here" via discord. I saw on the forum that you took my IP off the blacklist: Thanks! Wonder how it got there sfan5: @Bastrabun there's another thing: I noticed your server sometimes "misses" an announce (10min between requests, not 5); do you see anything in your logs regading that? timeouts? timdorohin: hi timdorohin: set_rotation() aren't working on attached entities timdorohin: is this a correct behavior? Bastrabun: sfan5: yes, I see a lot of timeouts. I put the logs into the forum thread in the hopes of help. Not the thread were you posted the "solved" message regarding the ddos, but the one where I described the intial problem Bastrabun: Here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25813 Bastrabun: It's usually Timeout, with response code 0 or 100 sfan5: @Bastrabun yeah I saw that but I thought those were fixed by now, do you happen to have curl_timeout set in your config? to what value? Jonathon: @Bastranoob Bastrabun: No, it's not set Bastrabun: I had set the serverlist_url for testing and I have ipv6_server and enable_ipv6 set to true. Bastrabun: Should I upload my minetest.conf to somewhere? (without settings for specific mods) Bastrabun: I also have a testserver on the same machine, I could let it announce to the list, too. On the testserver I can change values at your command sfan5: not needed but please try with curl_timeout = 30000 Bastrabun: (I reset my nickname to Bastrabun, so I can be pinged more easily) sfan5: (it's been showing as Bastrabun on this side always) Bastrabun: Ok, I /set curl_timeout 30000 sfan5: just checked the source, yes that should take effect at runtime Bastrabun: Should I watch the log? sfan5: I'll do that on my side timdorohin: okay, after some browsing throught server code and lua bindings i've found that yes, ObjectRef:set_rotation and it c++ counterpart UnitSAO::set_rotation() ain't doing any shit when object is atached to another Krock: yes that's true Krock: because there's no matrix calculations on server-side and the server just deals with the entity positions directly for simplicity Krock: moreover there's no rendering engine to load models which then could be used for attaching stuff to bones timdorohin: isn't in more logical to allow set/get_rotation to work with attach rotation? timdorohin: *it timdorohin: 'cuz right nowto change attached object rotation we need to reattach it timdorohin: i understand that after rotation change server would send the same thing it would send if we reattached object, but it isn't about efficiency right now, it is about api consistency Krock: well, set_attach is a very old API and set_rotation was only introduced in 0.5.0-dev which later became 5.0.0 Krock: currently looking for an issue into this direction timdorohin: Krock: what should i do with that? open an issue on github? go to minetest-dev channel and ask somebody about api change? Krock: pretty sure there's already an issue about it Krock: at least I think I've heard this complaint before timdorohin: patch is really something like 10 lines for both get/set_rotation timdorohin: and isn't even change anything in lua api Krock: > If an entity is added to another entity, a call to set_rotation() on the child entity will not override the attach rotation. Krock: #7395 looks like this is intentional ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7395 -- Add Lua methods 'set_rotation()' and 'get_rotation()' by DevyHeavy Krock: but I really cannot find any issue that would request set_rotation() to also change set_attach() rotation on call... timdorohin: Krock: right now i'm messing (and failing) around script-defined meshless entities Krock: those support attachments as well. take devtest as an example Krock: it has an entity spawner and object chain tool which does the attachment stuff timdorohin: well, you didn't understant what i mean - i'm trying to make complex entity from simple ones and that is where i startet to whine about set/get_rotation and so on timdorohin: also we can't add bones from script timdorohin: so i'm using invicible entities as hacky replacement Krock: yes, there's indeed no custom bone support. blender models are recommended for such things, and I can imagine using many small objects will be kinda tricky to implement appguru: there is custom bone support appguru: you just have to generate a .b3d and send it via dynamic_add_media appguru: it's not beautiful, but it should work sfan5: wat Krock: i.e. build your own model binaries tech_exorcist: assuming that 1. the time is 12:00; 2. time_speed is set to 0; 3. the game is Minetest Game; 4. the mapgen is v6; 5. the version of both Minetest and Minetest game is 5.3.0-; how far deep will sunlight go in a straight hole dug in the ground? in my world, it seems like it doesn't go any deeper than roughly 2100 blocks, but what's the exact number? tech_exorcist: more like -2200 Jonathon: you might need to use fixlight or if you have it installed /mapfix right above where it goes dark Krock: you could use VoxelManip:set_light_data() to fool Minetest into thinking that there's sunlight down there Krock: but usually /fixlight or whatever it is called, might remove the sunlight if the mapblock above does not have full sunlight Krock: (i.e. worsens the situation) Krock: there should not be a limit if the sunlight is propagated in a straight linke, but some calculation bugs might prevent that Wuzzy: !seen texmex MinetestBot: Wuzzy: texmex was last seen at 2021-01-18 09:08:15 UTC on #minetest-hub Krock: !seen Wuzzy MinetestBot: Krock: wuzzy was last seen at 2021-03-18 21:14:27 UTC on #minetest Wuzzy: lol tech_exorcist: @Jonathon and Krock: thanks! :D somtalgutoo: I accidentally unplugged my PC while running Minetest. Now it won't load the world I was running at the time it shut down. When I try to load it, it just immediately shuts down Minetest. I can reopen Minetest and open other worlds. Any initial suggestions on what I should do first? I put a lot of time into this world, and didn't back it up. :( Benrob0329: Any errors? VanessaE: ignore_world_load_errors = true VanessaE: in minetest.conf VanessaE: should be enough to get it to load VanessaE: but it may be corrupt sfan5: make a backup first in any case VanessaE: indeed. timdorohin: minetest seems to screw up pretty normal wavefront obj model https://imgur.com/a/0XstnZY GreenXenith: Bad uv mapping VanessaE: heh, nice glitch :D GreenXenith: Or, lack thereof I believe GreenXenith: I dont remember how exactly but you can create visual static on meshes with improper UV maps. Makes for potentially neat usecases. timdorohin: how TF UV mapping can break triangles rendering? GreenXenith: Well I dont know about the massive triangle on the top right VanessaE: this looks more like a driver failure VanessaE: bad uv mapping wouldn't cause thids VanessaE: -d GreenXenith: That one is strange, but the other screwed up part of the model looks near identical to stuff ive experienced with bad UV maps. VanessaE: it would just cause the model's textures to look funky GreenXenith: Its less a bad UV map, more missing GreenXenith: I think it has something to do with if it expects a UV map but you dont give it one VanessaE: huh. GreenXenith: or if the UV is scaled to 0 VanessaE: that's a new one on me GreenXenith: I dont remember exactly, all I know is I wanted to try it again eventually to get some neat effects timdorohin: minetest doesn't support GLTF, right? timdorohin: or wiki is outdated? sfan5: correct, it doesn't Wuzzy: fun with wallmounted: https://satoshiupload.com/images/hvoXt1gIQw.png Extexo: Kroxk: could you help? It I couldn't seem to find any examples on it in devtest Extexo: Krock* Extexo: Missed the c lol Wuzzy: Extexo: it is not possible to get rid of the underline Extexo: Oof mazes_80: since 5.4.0 I'm regularly hit by: src/inventorymanager.cpp :304 : virtual void IMoveAcntoryManager*, ServerActiveObject*, IGameDef*): l'assertion « move_count <= count » a échoué. mazes_80: just realised even error is translated: assert « move_count <= count » failed mazes_80: I was moving things (farming:lettuce) from a regular chest to inventory sfan5: mazes_80: if you know the exact reproducction steps it'd be nice if you could report a bug on github sfan5: this exact issue might also be fixed, though sfan5: (in 5.5.0-dev, that is) Telesight: Serverlist is repaired? sfan5: looks repaired doesn't it Telesight: Is that MultiCrap gone? sfan5: 4 of the popular servers are no longer announcing themselves due to what I assume a decision by their owner sfan5: (or in other words: we have not removed any servers from the list ourselves) Telesight: Wise decision anon5: does anyone know why PROTOCOL_ID is 0x4f457403? sfan5: !c "\x4f\x45\x74\x03" MinetestBot: 'OEt\x03' sfan5: looks like any random number to me anon5: The documentation on split packets says "If the data fails to come up in a reasonable time, the buffer shall be silently discarded." anon5: how long is reasonable? sfan5: check the code sfan5: src/network/connection.{cpp,h} MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix wield image for coral and kelp nodes (#2850) 130a90bd8 https://git.io/JmI1Q (152021-03-17T11:16:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest_game: mtg_craftguide: Fix incorrect item tooltips 1334bb232 https://git.io/JmI15 (152021-03-17T11:16:13Z) anon5: 30 seconds it looks like andrew: How do I use worldedit to repeat place a block with a spacing in between? * AndrewYu: is attempting to automatically plant trees along roads sfan5: is it okay if the space between the blocks is replaced too? AndrewYu: Yes AndrewYu: I mean, for example when T is tree sapling and A is air, like TAAAATAAAATAAAAT.... Telesight: Andrew, is the road already there? sfan5: you'd select region of [TAAAA] then and use //stack AndrewYu: Telesight: Yes, the road is already there AndrewYu: sfan5: I will try that Telesight: Ah pitty, I did that with a road with streetlights, take a part an copy it Telesight: Be carefull the part goes through existing objects AndrewYu: Thanks celeron55[m]: I have confirmation from the VPS provider that the VPS is disconnected from the Internet due to DDoS AndrewYu: ? mazes_80: sfan5: If I knew the exact way to reproduce the issue, it would be nice, for now it seems random (it ain't though) AndrewYu: Oof, I ran //stack and it stacked to the wrong direction, which is +x instead of -x mazes_80: the only thing that is for sure: it happens only when I play a lot with increasing "handled" stack, mixing growing it by ten and one item(s) AndrewYu: Which for some reason crashed my server. Maybe I'm out of map bounds mazes_80: when I finally put it in the other container, no more response from server until timeout (assert!!!) mazes_80: my local server is not shared, at most 2 players are connected locally hopefully (if shared this may lead me to downgrade to 5.3) Telesight: AndrewYU try to stack first with value 1, then you know which direction the whole thing is going AndrewYu: Yeah, i jsut found that out. Thx anyway! hlqkj: celeron55[m]: you mean the wiki and forum? celeron55[m]: The VPS hosts the forum and the wikis, yes sfan5: mazes_80: sorry nevermind, the commit I thought of (which should fix this) went in before 5.4.0 hlqkj: ok ty for the info. you guys are having such hard times these days... ty for your efforts celeron55[m]: This sucks but MT having useful presence on multiple platforms is intentional and always prevents major catastrophes from happening. Certainly nobody got cut out from the community due to the forum and wikis not being available IhrFussel: @AndrewYu (might be too late again and they left): You can use '?' as direction and it takes your current look direction instead eugenefil: hi, in what cases /emergeblocks builtin should be used? I get it that blocks are emerged automatically anyway sfan5: it can be used to pregenerate large areas of the map, if you wish to do so eugenefil: aha, but will I notice it visually, the generation process? or those pregenerated large areas will just pop up instantly when I move close enough to them later? eugenefil: tried /emergeblocks, but visually nothing happens sfan5: your don't need this in normal operation sfan5: you* eugenefil: ok, got it, was just trying stuff, thanks anon5: celeron55[m]: is 0x4f457403 (PROTOCOL_ID) just a random number? celeron55[m]: Not random, but it's meaningless in every other aspect than being unique celeron55[m]: It could be random anon5: but was it generated randomly or does it mean something? celeron55[m]: If it means something I don't know what celeron55[m]: But I don't remember how it was generated hisforever: Hi Here is a pastbin https://pastebin.com/CBahpdF5 I need help ? IceDragon: @hisforever Hard to say what happened there, I just looked at the source for that file on github (https://github.com/runsy/juanchi_game/blob/master/mods/explosions/init.lua#L65), it appears whatever it was checking had a snappy group value out of range IceDragon: and there is no fallback for out of range indices IceDragon: You should check that you're running the latest version of the game, and if that's true, then you can try filing a bug report along with steps to reproduce the problem to the mod creator and see if they'll fix it hisforever: thanks IceDragon mazes_80: if TenPlusOne lurks here: new flan recipe needs one more replacement -> {"farming:vanilla_extract", "vessels:glass_bottle"} mazes_80: else I'll wait forum to be reachable calcul0n: mazes_80, tenplus1 is generally on #minetest-hub, but we see him rarely Krock: leave a !tell for them darcksama: my server can not enter in list 2021-03-17 18:16:35: ERROR[CurlFetch]: https://servers.minetest.net//announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0) Any can helpe me? this started happening yesterday the whole connection here at home is normal, that seems to be the error of the minetest list website itself sfan5: ip of your server please darcksama: an moment darcksama: 192.168.15.13 sfan5: well that one is local to your network sfan5: I'm wondering about the one other (external) users would enter to join it darcksama: biglinux-minetest.ddns.net darcksama: have this too biglinux-minetest.ddns.net sfan5: do you have serverlist_url set in your config? darcksama: yes everything is set up correctly, I have the server for an existing year, this problem happens to several users and so far there has been no resolution from within the minetest sfan5: should start working within the next 5 minutes darcksama: thank you so much! I will wait 😄 j45: shouldnt we change the description of the channel here: it says the serverlist is http://www.minetest.net/servers/ where it is actually https://servers.minetest.net sfan5: both work j45: i guess j45: but the latest version needs to be changed; it says "Latest version: 5.3.0 (2020-07-09)" but we have 5.4 now 😄 sfan5: says " Latest version: 5.4.0 (2021-02-23) " on the IRC side Jonathon: dont complain about discord things in irc 🤦‍♂️ #meta-discussion sfan5: well isn'T the bridge supposed to sync that? Jonathon: nope Jonathon: *at least i dont think so j45: what bridge is used here? GreenXenith: Huh, good idea. Will add to my bridge todo. Jonathon: fixed GreenXenith: Currently https://github.com/reactiflux/discord-irc is used GreenXenith: It works as a bridge but it is fairly lacking in features id like :/ darcksama: thank you so much! it seems that everything has normalized, could you explain to me what really happened? I wonder sfan5: circumstances forced me to activate a DoS filter on the server list and you were accidentally caught in that darcksama: ok when that happens let the forum users know and post on twitter, many people shut down their servers forever for not being able to solve the problem, even thanks a lot! for helping 🙏 ar10ch: I thought the incredibly insulting "!docs" RTFM attitude of some members of this group would be the final straw.. but I stress myself and persevere.. now I've had enough. Being dictated to by snotty-nosed little shits with no self control - too many servers run by brats. I wanted to create a great world that would be safe for all, fun and engaging. But it seems that the minetest world does not necessarily attract the best of ar10ch: ppl. I don't like ppl but I make an effort. I really try. And it wears me out. I may release my projects instead of running a server but they wont be maintained, maybe not even finished. I need to draw a line and move on. sfan5: I'd be interested to hear where you encountered that attitude, I hear of such things rarely Warr1024: It's not like anyone in the MT community, even its developers and leaders, have the power to dictate how everyone who uses MT behaves. ar10ch: on this occasion it was on pandorabox but i'm off. ar10ch: and apparently they do.. silly thing to say sfan5: weird Jonathon: odd, the people on pandoras box are pretty knowledgeable and helpful any time i have asked Warr1024: Disputes with server admins are not uncommon, and sometimes your experience with some folks will be different than others'. Sometimes people just aren't predisposed to get along with each other, and sometimes it just doesn't seem like it's worth the effort to bridge that gap. sfan5: (they left already) Warr1024: (I wonder if there's some kind of limit on ragequits :-/ ) Jonathon: heh Benrob0329: I'm so confused, why would someone abandon all of their personal projects for the attitudes in one small section of the community? Benrob0329: I get disliking some people (I think we all dislike at least one person in every community) but to ragequit over it? That seems like there's more to the story than just one server. Telesight: Hello all ... Telesight: Serverlist seems still frozen VanessaE: it's presently broken VanessaE: got attacked yesterday, temporary solution in place VanessaE: ask him ^ :) Telesight: Ok thank you for your information sfan5: should start working again very soon Telesight: Nice Telesight: Was there a attack? VanessaE: no one believes me? :( Telesight: Oh sorry ;-) sfan5: there's not much detail to go into, yes there has been a DDoS attack Telesight: Ok, thank you Telesight: A temporary solution, a screenshot ;-) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Tweak duration_to_string formatting 1362e3593 https://git.io/JqpjV (152021-03-16T17:37:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: DevTest: Formspec tests, children getter, better lighttool (#10918) 139113538 https://git.io/Jqpjw (152021-03-16T17:37:24Z) hlqkj: so, serverlist still down? sfan5: had you asked one hour earlier it would've been up and healthy Telesight: A screenshot now ;-) hlqkj: i know, i saw it was... but did someone figured what happened/is happening? just curious hlqkj: @sfan5, so it was DDOS? sorry am not voiced in -hub sfan5: was/is hlqkj: ok ty Jordach: lemme guess, someone stole their sweetroll Eggy1: are the lists finally working or still intermittent? sfan5: as of now they are working Eggy1: strange, half my servers still don't announce sfan5: do you have any specifics on which half that is? Eggy1: the ones on Krynet srinivas: 158.69.147.154 to be precise MinetestBot: 02[git] 04kilbith -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix deprecated calls with Irrlicht 1.9 1366b5c08 https://git.io/JqjUf (152021-03-16T22:27:15Z) Eggy1: response code 0 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04kilbith -> 03minetest/minetest: GUIScene: Clear depth buffer + replace deprecated clearZBuffer calls 13285ba74 https://git.io/JqjU0 (152021-03-16T22:28:16Z) sfan5: looks like it triggered the DoS filter Eggy1: ah, probably because i announce so many servers on the same IP Eggy1: was the filter made more strict since earlier? sfan5: it should cope with that fine, anyway I've manually removed the IP Eggy1: ty beanzilla: Is wiki.minetest.net up? (Might be my connection, or not) heavygale: not your connection ^^ beanzilla: Thank you. srinivas: dos attack on rn sfan5: suspected Warr1024: I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to check LTT and see if MT got mentioned again :-D Extexo: How do I place a formspec element at the top of the screen (not the form, the whole screen, noclip on) Extexo: Oof Extexo: Sorry noclip didn't mean to ping Extexo: Oh nvm I figured it out Extexo: Sorry again for ping srinivas: > sfan5: suspected if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, tastes like a duck and swims like a duck, its a goddamn duck, sfan5: just because the duck is dead does not mean someone must have shot it srinivas: if it has a gunshot wound, it has very likely been shot haukku: Oh hi, just came back from afk and the VPS doesn't seem to be accepting any kind of incoming connections haukku: - celeron55 Extexo: Aaand nvm I do need help Extexo: How do I use two position[]s in one formspec? Extexo: I want to place something on the top and something else on the bottom Extexo: And be based on the actual position instead of just offsetting it Extexo: Because the size of MT differs from devices celeron55[m]: I'm going to just try to wait out whatever is happening to the VPS celeron55[m]: It doesn't look like an obvious attack but that tells more about my lack of tools than about whether it is an attack or not celeron55[m]: The VPS is running fine, but the route to Internet is chopped off at some point Extexo: Oh I came in at a bad time Extexo: Are the forums down or something? calcul0n_: Extexo, afaik position is only for the whole formspec so i don't think you can have two calcul0n_: looks like what you want here are huds instead Extexo: Oof Extexo: Kk Extexo: I think I've asked this before but how do I remove the underline from a formspec hypertext action? DivideByZero: I found a typing error on https://wiki.minetest.net/MinetestEDU DivideByZero: "Automatically assing players to an individual construction area " DivideByZero: I don't think it's supposed to say 'assing players' on an educational focused page. DivideByZero: Someone might want to fix that up. Calinou: DivideByZero: fixed :) DivideByZero: Calinou: *thumbs up* Extexo: How do I use io.open to open a text file as a lua string? Extexo: Oh nvm I'm stupid lol Extexo: That's what io.open does Extexo: Nevermind Extexo: Nobody say this Extexo: saw* Extexo: Lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest: Fix missing log level in minetest.log (#11068) 1388f514a https://git.io/JqSDD (152021-03-15T09:13:15Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/serverlist: Only apply uptime penalty on repeated restarts 135d5f31d https://git.io/JqH2v (152021-03-15T11:35:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/serverlist: Avoid unnecesary disk writes 13a9ecf55 https://git.io/JqH2f (152021-03-15T10:38:49Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/serverlist: Adjust server ranking 139f144f3 https://git.io/JqH2k (152021-03-15T10:27:38Z) LoneWolfHT: Sweet Warr1024: Why are we explicitly penalizing servers that support both v4 and v5? Why not just penalize servers supporting v4 regardless of whether they're dual or v4-only? That would seem to be more in line with the stated goal in the commit log. LoneWolfHT: Servers that support v4 only go to the bottom of the client serverlist and are greyed out LoneWolfHT: On the 5.x versions sfan5: those two are effectively the same since clients only see servers that support v5 (or v4) anyway rubenwardy: exactly ^ Warr1024: I guess I just figured it'd be simpler not to check proto max, if it's all the same otherwise. Warr1024: Also, we don't necessarily want to look like we're singling out multicraft or anything... :-| Jonathon: i mean, thats effectively what its doing Jonathon: ironic that a 4x only server is #5 on the list rn lol ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5 -- Fixed key names so the key set menu now works. by adamnew123456 Warr1024: That's fine, but I think the principle of the change stands on its own regardless of what effect it may or may not have on a specific project. rubenwardy: Worth noting that Multicraft also has its own server list that shows only v4+5 servers. So they use their own clients to boost their servers appguru: Extexo: no, that's not what io.open does appguru: io.open applies a file handle, much like a stream, on which you can call seek, write or read depending on mode appguru: returns* hlqkj: don't know if it's appropriate to ask here here, sorry in case. i have a question: seems that copying text from read-only textareas doesn't work anymore on the 5.4 client, is that wanted or a regression? rubenwardy: Linux? hlqkj: win-64 hlqkj: about the serverlist and 0.4 vs 5 thing, i'd like to drop a small point to ponder on. please forgive if i got something wrong in how the ranking works, can still be the case. but since the number of players is taken into account when scoring a server popularity, after the MT community decision to drop the old protocol it's undeniable that servers allowing both 0.4 and 5.x clients in have imho an unfair advantage: just consider the amount unofficial hlqkj: clients that are still stuck on 0.4 and that we don't have an official iOS client (or do we?) hlqkj: i know that guests are considered like 1/8 iirc? but 1/8*80 avg players is still having a weight compared to 1*10 avg players. also, the average client count score doesn't do distinction between guests and non-guests names, is it? hlqkj: like it is now, imho, it is penalizing admins who use the official mt and updated their servers to 5, and as time passes the spread gets worse: who has a high rank get more advertised hence having a chance to rank up, while those who lie at the bottom will likely stay there for time... numzero: what’s wrong with “unofficial” clients and servers? MT core devs stated pretty well they have nothing against these numzero: by using LGPL instead of AGPL hlqkj: i didn't said there is something wrong with them! but if players count is taken into account, then also the availability of clients must be taken into account imho VanessaE: certain *cough* forks flood the server list with server entries that I guess work only with their branded client rather than just the generic Minetest client hlqkj: if an official mt is only allow 5.x clients, and the whole iOS community doesn't have a client to connect to it, the rank would not be so... impartial hlqkj: just my opinion though hlqkj: letting aside that, knowing how the ranking algo works, i could easily recompile my mt to "tell the serverlist what it is expecting to rank me up" hlqkj: small, insignificant example. we updated a 0.4 to 5, lost at least half a dozen of players that were using an unofficial app on iPads. half a dozen are our average player count hlqkj: is that the server lost gameplay quality because we decided it was finally time to update? numzero: what does ranking has to do with gameplay quality? numzero: popularity is measureable. gameplay quality isn’t numzero: and is different for different people VanessaE: gameplay quality is dictated not just by the game content, but by its community VanessaE: if you lose valuable, good players, your game quality will decline even if the content remains unchanged. VanessaE: or to put it another way: VanessaE: if you lose good players, your ratio of good to crap players drops. you have fewer good players to offset the crap players that are also there. VanessaE: thus, the quality of everyones' interactions declines. VanessaE: 'course, that's assuming all those lost in a protocol transition are good players. hlqkj: that's good to me, wasn't my point actually... VanessaE: (which v0.4 vs v5.x is) VanessaE: that said, if they're on iOS, they're probably all hoity-toity, I'm-better-than-you players anyway :) VanessaE: you know, typical Apple clientele :) numzero: yet they were *all* on iOS numzero: so were *good* players for each other, weren’t they? hlqkj: not all of them, some are great ones but have parents that are like you say :) VanessaE: but there's another aspect to the whole loss thing: if player count drops too much, a server may become not worth maintaining. VanessaE: numzero: I am joking you know :) sofar: I'm not a fan of solving symptoms while leaving the underlying problem alone -> ios need a v5 client numzero: what I’m trying to say is that the meaning of “good” and “crap” players is not strictly defined hlqkj: players comes and goes, that is normal. the point i was trying to say (forgive if im not so clear, english isn't my main language) is that sorting a list is by definition based on something that must be measurable hlqkj: the way you get new players, is by having them noticing a server, which should be easier for servers that are up in the list hlqkj: on this, i think everyone could agree, isn't it? sofar: the serverlist isn't "one" list per se - it's a list with many different lists embedded inherently VanessaE: hlqkj: well the original idea behind the ranking algo was to promote servers with good quality interaction based on things that themselves tend to promote that, like requiring users to create real accounts with passwords, versus a million "guest" accounts hlqkj: that i suppose is why "parameters" like, ping, up-time, average players, non-guest clients count have been taken into account hlqkj: that is what i meant with "game quality" VanessaE: or if a server reboots periodically, it's reasonable to assume they're doing so to make regular backupsl. things like that. hlqkj: exactly sofar: the other side of the issue is that the serverlist is being used differently by some clients VanessaE: sofar: I presume you mean something other than Mineclone flooding the list? hlqkj: this easily falls into a "political"-like discussion, lol, which i didn't wanted to sofar: multicraft clients don't see non-multicraft servers hlqkj: if that's the case, why minetest sees multicraft servers? sofar: you can play on them with v5 hlqkj: that is, again, not the point i wanted to mark VanessaE: er yeah, I meant multicraft, not mineclone. hlqkj: i can play whatever i want... but a new player who opens minetest.. will or will not stop in the first, say 3 or 4 pages? on average i mean hlqkj: i don't actually care after all, i don't own a server myself and the ones i'm into, would be well far down in the list anyways hlqkj: but it just didn't seemed right to my eyes, that's it VanessaE: I don't imagine a new player will bother with more than the first couple of pages, assuming they don't use the search feature. hlqkj: last example, hope this time i'll explain well. hlqkj: i decide to develop an android app, and my dev community decide to target only android 10 and up hlqkj: but, my own app store allows apps from android 4 and up... hlqkj: where do you think my app will be? VanessaE: I couldn't say hlqkj: *considering the current version distribution across the existing user base VanessaE: which one is more likely to be found by everyone else? numzero: considering how fast Android versions obsolete... targeting latest (at the time) version sounds reasonable hlqkj: if you just rank it by amount of users, the larger the user base, the upper it will be Krock: is 6.0 obsolete already? Krock: thinking of it.. it's been a long time since I received system updates hlqkj: it's been time we got 5.x out, yet (for mt community decision) a fairly large part of the mt user base is under unofficial clients hlqkj: if those clients doesn't support 5.x servers hlqkj: and if in the same server list someone accepts both 0.4 and 5 hlqkj: flood will occur for sure numzero: probably numzero: yet... Krock: F towards those hybrid servers. many optimizations are missing there numzero: assume that client updates to 5.x hlqkj: then there'll be no more unfairness Krock: 0.4.x is somewhat outdated by now, and except on iOS there's at least one binary for every common platform numzero: um, wait numzero: multicraft doesn’t allow connection to non-multicraft servers, does it? numzero: that’s not due to protocol difference numzero: more like moderation VanessaE: curation, if anything VanessaE: and even that word is a poor descriptor.. Krock: weird. I saw those a while back on the server list Krock: but now they're apparently gone VanessaE: there are 16 of them at the moment hlqkj: that idk and render things actually worst to me VanessaE: they still show in the master list on http://servers.minetest.net/ VanessaE: no excuse me, not 16 VanessaE: 11 of them hlqkj: idk, just explain that in the last 2 years of me playing mt every day, by some chance the first page have always been mc ones hlqkj: explain how* Jordach: I wonder if there’s fake users judging by what the App Store allows these days when it comes to bullshit Jordach: See shovel ware VanessaE: some of my servers used to grace the top 10, even had one or another at #1 a number of times. I have no idea why they've fallen-off. ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome hlqkj: VanessaE: i've been told i missed a lot, by joining minetest too late :) numzero: hlqkj: probably because Multicraft attracts A LOT of players? numzero: probably because it has such a shiny wrapping MT lacks? hlqkj: but why so? (not on debating now, pure curiosity) hlqkj: i never actually tried it Jordach: It’s probably App Store shovelware numzero: rather, Google Play numzero: I can’t know the actual reasons but I see visible things: hlqkj: would be interesting to know how much of their user base is using the official mt client app numzero: MC is attractive for those who prefers to click “install” and then “play” hlqkj: bc we can connect to them, but the opposite isn't true hlqkj: and we allow our users to see their servers, while they (i take this from here, i didn't know) don't Jordach: All I’m hearing is remove multicraft from the list hlqkj: not from me hlqkj: more like, take more params into account.. like protocol version Jordach: If they can’t use MT servers why even bother letting them use the MT list hlqkj: because, mt users can use their servers Jordach: Why should we accommodate Multi users when they’re unable to use MT servers VanessaE: I favor ejecting multicraft servers from the list. VanessaE: or deranking the hell out of them VanessaE: put them at the bottom. Jordach: It’s even a hostile fork because they simply won’t let users out of the bucket their in hlqkj: i agree hlqkj: not that, you're free to keep your users. unfair to steal other's Jordach: They could be playing far better games like CTF or what not numzero: would they? hlqkj: agree with what VE said* Jordach: Yes and the problem is that MT servers are effectively non connectable on the multicraft client despite using the same server list hlqkj: it's not a problem of mt in my vision Jordach: It is actually hlqkj: when mt dropped the old protocol, someone managed to patch their code to accept both 0.4 and 5 Jordach: Because it’s technically telling users they can only play what the fork developer chooses hlqkj: don't you see some (legit) tactic in that? numzero: that’s not a problem but a political decision numzero: I restate: Multicraft’s maintainer *will not* let his users connect to the servers he can’t moderate numzero: as he tells, to keep the age rating low Jordach: What is content not rated by ESRB and similar Jordach: Or even online interactions as most released titles have that numzero: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10188#issuecomment-751342218 numzero: I might have read that a bit wrongly Jordach: Parents using parental controls properly Jordach: LMAO Jordach: That has never fucking happened in the history of tablets hlqkj: lol sofar: it's fine that he limits the client sofar: he should just run his own master server instead numzero: so you see, he *does* want to moderate the servers numzero: sofar: exactly sofar: the tools are available for him to do so hlqkj: the whole thing isn't about what mc decides to do, though sofar: they're free and OSS rubenwardy: he should just run his own master server instead rubenwardy: he does rubenwardy: http://servers.multicraft.world/ Jordach: I lack the required English to articulate what so far said numzero: he also runs a metric ton of miniservers not listed anywhere sofar: do his servers announce on multiple lists? rubenwardy: Either that, or that serverlist filters from the main list sofar: ask him to host his own serverlist then numzero: but basically, server *software* doesn’t matter much IMO numzero: it’s the game that matters, doesn’t it? numzero: are these 90+players servers all running Multicraft *game*? sofar: unfair market competition is unfair market competition hlqkj: then why this what does ranking has to do with gameplay quality? Jordach: Games don’t matter when it’s dogshit ads placed everywhere hlqkj: that was what i tried to say at first sofar: he's using his market power to draw more clients rubenwardy: numzero: no rubenwardy: there's on with a different game hlqkj: sofar: precisely sofar: it's anticompetitive in nature and effect hlqkj: now the (political?) question is, are all the mt community ok with this? Jordach: Most app devs who have ads are snakes and will only change from extreme social pressure Jordach: They’re not in it to contribute back rubenwardy: monte has contributed back, however rubenwardy: that's not a very fair statement. Ad homiem Jordach: This community was built on that back in 2011 hlqkj: i started this debate with the word "fair". i download mt, and see mc atop the list. good servers, totally ok to me. but if i download mc, will i see ctf, or one of VE server, or whatever? rubenwardy: no hlqkj: ok, so.. just find a way to balance things.. a bit more? rubenwardy: That's precisely the problem - their apps unfairly boost their servers VanessaE: then why are we arguing about this? just de-rank or ban multicraft servers and be done with it rubenwardy: former is done. Later may be a bit too far imo hlqkj: ^ ^ ^ VanessaE: no it isn't, rubenwardy Jordach: What annoys me most is server owners ignore desktop users in favour of the plentiful mobile users Jordach: Which result in MT staying shit hlqkj: not again VanessaE: check the master list, three of the top 10 are multicraft. 4 in the top 20. hlqkj: a desktop user will be attracted to a MC server the same way a mobile will rubenwardy: Well, I can't check the server list currently :D VanessaE: well 3 only, now. it varies. VanessaE: rubenwardy: no browser? hlqkj: if things keeps going on this way, the tendency will be mt loosing all of its user base? rubenwardy: oh right, it's just HTTP that's broken. HTTPS works hlqkj: here it works, but friends telling me it's off for them Jordach: I’ve been working on a game with now reaching 10sloc VanessaE: http works for me just fine Jordach: 10k SLOC numzero: rubenwardy: all 4 servers with 40+ players right now are Multicraft rubenwardy: a whole 10 lines? Holy crap numzero: Multicraft *game* numzero: among 7 servers with 20+ players, 6 are Multicraft numzero: so I can offer what I wanted to offer numzero: grouping/filtering servers by game numzero: in the GUI numzero: Jordach: and MT core devs ignore mobile users in favour of desktop users Jordach: Yeet guestabc: I'm just here to write that there are few servers who use multicraft as a way for getting players on both old and new MT clients to play in one same server, but are not listed in multicraft serverlist because they're not targetting multicraft users guestabc: you can compare multicraft serverlist and minetest serverlist side by side, not all multicraft servers are on multicraft list numzero: guestabc: do you mean Multicraft *game* or Multicraft *server*? VanessaE: we know, guestabc. numzero: (the distinction inherited from Minetest btw) DivideByZero: What does this mean? "sfan5 -> minetest/serverlist: Only apply uptime penalty on repeated restarts" There is going to be some penalty for restarting a server? rubenwardy: DivideByZero: there was a penalty for restarting a server hlqkj: so... i speak here 1st time, i cause a debate and the collapse of the whole minetest server list? LOL rubenwardy: now the penalty only applies if you restart enough times in one go - this aims to detect crash loops Jordach: The website is pointless hlqkj: it's been unreachable for clients for 1h+ Jordach: Because clients rank by player count DivideByZero: What is "the penalty"? VanessaE: huh, he's right. website loads fine, but my client can't reach it rubenwardy: server list ranking * hlqkj: is always fine. UwU DivideByZero: So lower rank on the list? rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: but only for a short time, if there's lots of restarts DivideByZero: So if I am testing out a new mod and need to restart a few times should I change the send to server list to false to avoid being penalized? rubenwardy: you should probably test out locally rubenwardy: you could do that though DivideByZero: ok, thanks for the info. rubenwardy: OK, the penalty applies if you have more than one restart in the last 2 hours hlqkj: seems fair rubenwardy: and then it's up to 8 point deducted, depending on how recently rubenwardy: up to an hour rubenwardy: so no penalty once you reach an hour DivideByZero: Oh, I've restarted more times than that in 10 minutes before. TommyTreasure: so, what if i have a mod on an automatic update, and it causes my server start script to loop? rubenwardy: before, it applied to all server - so the only change here is that it only applies if it's restarted twice, rather than once rubenwardy: Then the penalty is correctly applied guestabc: numzero: multicraft *server*, there are multicraft server running non-multicraft_game that you can see appearing from time to time (including one that says minetest, probably using minetest game) and the giveaway that server is multicraft because the version number is 2.0.0 or similar instead of 5.x or 0.4.x hlqkj: never auto-update a mod, imho DivideByZero: minetest.net uses an invalid security certificate. DivideByZero: The certificate is not trusted because it is self-signed. rubenwardy: www.minetest.net not minetest.net rubenwardy: complain to c55 numzero: guestabc: so there is no problem in my suggestion guestabc: *inb4 uses wildcard cert* numzero: btw I have been suggesting that a long time ago, in a menu redesign debate DivideByZero: He should set up a forwarder to forward minetest.net to www.minetest.net, easy to do, rubenwardy: he did rubenwardy: it uses a self signed cert numzero: I mean, filtering by game, or just showing a game icon in the list DivideByZero: He could get a free Let's Encrypt certificiate instead. DivideByZero: Or not use encryption at all, a forwarder doesnt seem it should really need encryption, and the site being forwarded to has it already. DivideByZero: oh, the site being forwarded too does not have encryption. TommyTreasure: so, what's going on with the server list. i have both 0.4 and 5.4 clients running, and nothing in the list DivideByZero: so, why would the forwarder> numzero: that would help players wanting to try something new (aka anything other that the most popular game in the list, be that multicraft, or minetest in the case of multicraft ban/derank) Jonathon: https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/issues/32 given this issue, funny how your targeting multicraft servers now i really like Nerzhil comment "you will only make them being rogue inside the server list" pretty much gave forks a reason to go rouge on the serverlist TommyTreasure: its been almost an hour rubenwardy: http://minetest.net forwards as well Jonathon: given this comment "Allowing forks to use the server list (provided they behave) is very much in the spirit of FOSS. Disallowing forks in general would unnecessarily fragment the Minetest player base while bringing few advantages. Besides, the majority of forks (or variants) don't do anything we would consider undesirable." does that mean multicraft servers are not behaving then? DivideByZero: web sites that didn't accept payments didn't use to need security certificates, but thanks to Google's power of control, they are trying to push everyone into getting one. VanessaE: DivideByZero: https also keeps crap ISPs from inserting ads. numzero: VanessaE: WTF? VanessaE: and spying on the content in general VanessaE: numzero: what> numzero: where are there on the globe ISPs inserting ads? DivideByZero: or perhaps makes it slightly more difficuly for the government to spy on what people are doing, but they can still do it anyways. Jordach: Intel ME and AMD PSP lookin like VanessaE: numzero: I don't know if anyone's still doing it now, but in the past it has been seen on a few "local" ISPs numzero: also to prevent spying one needs to make sure the cert owner is the website owner numzero: but the browser will happily accept *any* cert signed by some “trusted authority” DivideByZero: ISP still spy on your DNS requests, and still know where you are going, unless you use al alternate DNS like DOH or one of the other safer types. But even still when you use DOH now you put your DNS into some other companies hands that can now spy on you. Hawk777: “local” like Comcast? https://gizmodo.com/comcast-is-injecting-ads-right-into-web-pages-at-its-pu-1632327503 I thought they were pretty major (not that I live in the US, so I don’t really know much about them). Hawk777: Though that was years ago now. TommyTreasure: ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Failure when receiving data from the peer) (response code 0) hlqkj: yup. been like this for some time... TommyTreasure: if i posted that error as often as it appears in my logs, be considered as spamming?  LOL DivideByZero: My humble opinion: I don't like that the server list now only shows the top few servers and for the rest you have to click 'see more'. DivideByZero: So basically if you aren't at the top of the list your server is now very easy to ignore or never even see. VanessaE: DivideByZero: er, I can just scroll? numzero: DivideByZero: what is the client you are using? DivideByZero: Vanessa: only after you click 'see more' VanessaE: no VanessaE: not here. VanessaE: https://imgur.com/DQnoXLK.png DivideByZero: sorry 'show more' not 'see more' DivideByZero: That's what I am seeing using Firefox. VanessaE: firefox?? VanessaE: um VanessaE: minetest doesn't go through a browser. DivideByZero: The server list does, and that's what I am referring to. hlqkj: VE: meaning the client is updating the server list for you? DivideByZero: http://www.minetest.net/servers/ VanessaE: hlqkj: yeah, that ^ is just now. VanessaE: DivideByZero: wrong url hlqkj: uhm, still nothing here... VanessaE: https://servers.minetest.net/ VanessaE: is the correct url TommyTreasure: @DivideByZero, it's a known fact that people don't 'scroll' past the first page.  especially children numzero: VanessaE: no DivideByZero: Oh, that list looks better. But then I have the question, why is there two? numzero: the URL is correct VanessaE: numzero: no, it isn't. VanessaE: the URL I just gave is the master list. VanessaE: the other one is not. :) numzero: I see both Krock: one embeds the other DivideByZero: Having two server lists seems to just add to the confusion. numzero: Krock: exactly VanessaE: exactly, Krock Krock: good VanessaE: one is just a wrapper around the other. Krock: so we've settled this numzero: but the wrapper is nicer and has a link to the full list VanessaE: use the URL I gave. it's what clients see. numzero: it should be labelled correspondingly though VanessaE: they do NOT use the paged list. TommyTreasure: Krock, please load a client and see for yourself.  there is not server list displayed in the client. and the default entry for server's minetest.conf, points to "servers.minetest.net" numzero: VanessaE: but on the website, the link leads to https://www.minetest.net/servers/ hlqkj: try googling "minetest serverlist" and see which one is the first result DivideByZero: TommyTreasure: That's probably why Facebook created the 'infinite scroll'. hlqkj: sadly, the fancy one with the "Show more" link VanessaE: numzero: I repeat. clients do not use the paged list. they use the one I linked to. * TommyTreasure: ignores dumb excuses if they refer to faceboodk VanessaE: TommyTreasure: I just did, it works now. numzero: VanessaE: clients use https://servers.minetest.net/list Krock: TommyTreasure: yes, that's the announcement URL numzero: AFAIK VanessaE: numzero: which is just a json-encoded version of what's on the main URL> Krock: and that link from numzero just now is in fact the json that's used by the client VanessaE: it is not paged. hlqkj: my client is still not downloading it TommyTreasure: not here TommyTreasure: 2021-03-15 12:06:00: ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0) Krock: TommyTreasure: increase curl timeout TommyTreasure: that's PDT btw Krock: response code 0 means that there's no connection Krock: otherwise you'd get a DNS error, or server status error, whatsoever TommyTreasure: it has worked fine for 4 years, why all of a sudden do i need to change MY config Krock: also consider nslookup to ensure that you can connect to it hlqkj: ruben said about http not working while https yes... perhaps that? Krock: TommyTreasure: you don't. perhaps the server is slow at processing. give it some more time. Krock: hlqkj: CURL should handle both the same way without a blink TommyTreasure: neither of my client apps are showing anything on the join tab.  0.4.17.1 and 5.4.0 hlqkj: yet my client doesn't load it since 1+h ago Krock: that indicates a network problem. what does nslookup show, TommyTreasure ? TommyTreasure: sorry, only my favorites, and the 'Joining...' Jonathon: @Bastranoob dont you also have issues with the serverlist from time to time? hlqkj: nslookup does fine Krock: server list works fine here Krock: (web and minetest client) hlqkj: ping does too TommyTreasure: Non-authoritative answer: TommyTreasure: Name:    kitsunemimi.pw TommyTreasure: Addresses:  2a00:1768:6001:a::f TommyTreasure: 185.107.80.107 TommyTreasure: Aliases:  servers.minetest.net hlqkj: and adding https:// to my minetest.conf did the trick Krock: that looks good hlqkj: so, as rubenwardy said, on server-side somewthing is wrong with http DivideByZero: I'm seeing a message "Try reenabling public serverlist and check your internet connection." Krock: same addresses from my side TommyTreasure: again, why do i need to edit a default installation of minetest Krock: why not TommyTreasure: this is from the client hlqkj: you don't need to -- just pointing out what the problem is DivideByZero: If my internet wasn't working I wouldn't be talking on IRC. :P VanessaE: I don't even have the serverlist URL set in my .conf Krock: DivideByZero: wait where's that? VanessaE: might be why it's working noe VanessaE: now* DivideByZero: Krock: I see it in the place the server description would normally be, in the client, and using the latest dev client from github. TommyTreasure: ok, let me see if i understand this correctly.  2 hours ago, all loaded fine.  in the past hour, none of the servers show on the join, unless they're in my favorites.  however, i can still join any in my favorites, so the connection is fine. Krock: o.O DivideByZero: After my favorites it shows "Loading..." TommyTreasure: exactly DivideByZero: and it's in the description for that. VanessaE: TommyTreasure: so something broke in the master server list itself.. what's the big deal? Krock: from builtin/mainmenu/serverlistmgr.lua VanessaE: it'll be fixed I'm sure hlqkj: ^ ^ ^ TommyTreasure: the big deal is being asked to change my config for someone else's error, rather than just giving an answer to my question Krock: DivideByZero: that's a default value which is usually replaced by the actual server list as soon it's loaded VanessaE: well there's your answer. :) something broke TommyTreasure: something has been broken in minetest, ever since i started using 04.14  :) hlqkj: lol Krock: building minetest master now DivideByZero: Krock: Ok, but it's not being loaded anymore, so the message is there semi-permanently now, until someone fixes the issue. hlqkj: could be the time to set the default setting to use https perhaps! Krock: DivideByZero: you could see a timeout error in debug.txt when the 4 seconds (IIRC default) are exceeded DivideByZero: BRB, AFK for like 5 minutes. Krock: minetest master works just fine Krock: must be a network issue or the server list blocked your IP TommyTreasure: if it's blocked my ip, its using 2 different ways to identify me.  i'm in the USA, and my server isn't hlqkj: (facepalm) Krock: AI is taking over! Krock: duck and run TommyTreasure: i wonder if i still have an old backup copy of my doom server.  at least that ran TommyTreasure: and i'd probably get the same amount of joins with doom, as i do with mt.  ZERO hlqkj: Krock: would you try this: curl http://servers.minetest.net (http, without -s) and see if it works for you? Krock: hlqkj: works just fine hlqkj: sorry ** /list missing VanessaE: works for me VanessaE: with and without /list hlqkj: bc here, it doesn't work Hawk777: Without /list, works for me; with /list, takes a few seconds and then returns data. Krock: http list does not VanessaE: though it does delay for a second or so before it loadfs. VanessaE: -f TommyTreasure: so the entire US west coast is blocked? hlqkj: whereas https does instantly hlqkj: im in EU so guess we're blocked too... GDPR again? LOL Krock: "curl http://servers.minetest.net/list" just stalls for a while and eventually returns something DivideByZero: back TommyTreasure: world record!  Minetest blocks the world  LOL Hawk777: HTTPS seems to be faster for me, about 1 second, while HTTP takes 3–6 seconds. hlqkj: curl: (7) Failed to connect to servers.minetest.net port 80: Timed out TommyTreasure: Hawk777, and others.  in a default setup, minetest doesn't look for the servers via https Hawk777: I am aware of that. I was providing data. I was not making claims. hlqkj: yeah, that was my concern too Hawk777: As you might see I also provided data for HTTP connections. DivideByZero: Does anyone use 'xp_redo' on their servers or is there an alternate mod for xp? It seems to be broken. DivideByZero: But I'd really like to have xp on my server, for added fun. TommyTreasure: what would really be nice, would to get an informative response from the server list maintainer, about an estimated time for normal operation Krock: windows xp Jonathon: ask sfan5 Jonathon: however people have lives and he may be busy atm DivideByZero: Krock: wrong xp, but that was likely a joke. TommyTreasure: doesn't sfan5 monitor this channel? Jonathon: >"however people have lives and he may be busy atm" Krock: yes sure they monitor it 24/7 even in sleep hlqkj: lol Jonathon: ^also this lol DivideByZero: joke: People have lives outside of Minetest during coronavirus? Krock: so mentioning your issue more often results in way better results and the issue will be resolved in an instant TommyTreasure: everybody seems to start telling others how to "get around the problem" rather than  letting those in charge make an annoncement Krock: (jk don't do it) Jonathon: or pms TommyTreasure: the instant has been lingering for over an hour :) Jonathon: a typically wok day is 8hrs here, are they only a hour where your at? Jonathon: *a typical work Jonathon: also since when did krock, a minetest core dev, not count as "in charge"? TommyTreasure: you obviously have never been self employed DivideByZero: Johnathan work days here died out over a year ago when everything was shutdown for the plandemic. TommyTreasure: since when did Jonathon become my master Krock: > plandemic TommyTreasure: for sure! Krock: suspiciously panned Jonathon: > According to data from the International Labour Organization, only 12.4 percent of workers are self-employed on average in high-income economies while in low-income economies, this figure rises to 81.9 percent. interesting Krock: *planed Jonathon: planed for panning the virus? :p DivideByZero: *planned, and yes. hlqkj: congrats! ^^^ Jonathon: lol hlqkj: lol VanessaE: yeah, that's gonna stop right now. Krock: SIGSEGV also stops quite fast VanessaE: heh DivideByZero: I'm self employed, at least I was before coronavirus. Krock: DivideByZero: until your employer fired you. tough personalities.... VanessaE: Krock: mind merging https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/pull/59 so I can close the browser tab? :) TommyTreasure: self-employed means you oinly have to work half a day, and you get to pick which half Krock: VanessaE: uuh well Krock: how about bell? are they no longer active? Krock: a few commits in the last weeks VanessaE: *shrug* DivideByZero: Self employed can often mean you work all day without pay on some days. Krock: oh well -.- maybe tomorrow Krock: seeing all those constants makes me almost try Krock: s/try/cry/ VanessaE: heh luk3yx: Was their any attempt to reach out to MultiCraft to tell them to change their server promotion before applying https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/commit/9f144f3? VanessaE: can't really be helped :) Krock: sfx() https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1pAlrFDTu8 Jonathon: luk: not that i saw at all, nothing in issues or PR's Jonathon: seems sfan5 just did it Jonathon: of the 3, only one i can find a issue for is https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/issues/37 DivideByZero: Servers that still support v 4 are also being penalized? "specificially, penalize servers that support both v4 and v5 Reasoning: We, as a project, have no interest in promoting servers that intentionally restrict themselves to the feature set of an old, potentially buggy version." TommyTreasure: minetest is being penalized DivideByZero: "# reduction to 40% for servers that support both legacy (v4) and v5 clients" rubenwardy: doesn't effect servers that just support v4, only multicraft servers Jonathon: so basically it targeted a fork DivideByZero: 40% what? VanessaE: Jonathon a fork that doesn't play fairly to begin with. DivideByZero: So multicraft will be placed lower on the server list? Jonathon: VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/issues/32 VanessaE: DivideByZero: in theory but they're still showing a few in the top 10 VanessaE: off and on luk3yx: So the answer to my question is no? VanessaE: what was the question? TommyTreasure: and i'll bet that an apple store will never put up a sign claiming the top 3 phones are androids.  :) VanessaE: Jonathon not relevant. VanessaE: Jonathon multicraft servers only work with their own client or something like that. VanessaE: whilst showing up in regular clients' lists luk3yx: Was their any attempt to reach out to MultiCraft to tell them to change their server promotion before applying https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/commit/9f144f3? DivideByZero: Vanessa: Are you sure? I've played Multicraft with the Minetest client before. VanessaE: maybe it's the other way around then VanessaE: I don't rememebr DivideByZero: I've never used the Multicraft client. DivideByZero: While we are kind of on this subject, yesterday I came across a website claming to have "Minetest-final" VanessaE: no DivideByZero: Wasn't really sure what that was all about, maybe some other fork? Jonathon: no VanessaE: get the hell away from that site. DivideByZero: I prefer to use the official anyways. TommyTreasure: i thought Multicraft was actually a hosting service for MineCraft servers -- https://multicraft.org/ DivideByZero: It did look a bit sketchy. luk3yx: And can't MultiCraft servers just start pretending to be 5.X on the MT serverlist? Jonathon: or if they split there listing couldnt the restriction be bypassed? DivideByZero: Tommy on that page you just shared it says "The Complete Minecraft Server Hosting Solution and Control Panel". Minecraft vs Minetest ?? TommyTreasure: wouldn't that indicate an infringement on either trademark and/or copyright of a MineCraft service? luk3yx: Hi DivideByZero: Vanessa: the url for that site is: https://minetest.org/ VanessaE: GTFO VanessaE: get out of here with that site MisterE, Modder of Sorts: whats going on with the serverlist? First, minetest doesnt seem to be showing the serverlist anymore, second, it looks like on https://servers.minetest.net/ all multicraft servers are gone? TommyTreasure: i totally agree!!!!!!!!!~ luk3yx: No saying the link here Krock: VanessaE: http://minetest.com/ DivideByZero: If it's a scam site why doesn't it get shut down? It claims that it's built by one of the oldest senoir devs of Minetest, named OldCoder luk3yx: MultiCraft servers are penalised now Jonathon: use https, and see https://github.com/minetest/serverlist/commit/9f144f3e3c40a52ee423466f19f8eff37f859111 DivideByZero: And the site refers to Minetest 5 as 'Old Minetest 5' lol. DivideByZero: "There are two major versions of Minetest: Old Minetest 5 and Final Minetest." TommyTreasure: DivideByZero, you're not making any friends with that information DivideByZero: "Old Minetest 5 isn't backwards compatible with old clients or modsets. The fork is run by hostile and largely anonymous parties. It's not a group that most parents and schools would choose to be involved with." TommyTreasure: i would also suggest you use a TOR browser to visit that site DivideByZero: Why did you kick me for simply sharing information Vanessa? DivideByZero: I was alerting to the site, not promoting it. VanessaE: Krock: at least minetest.com is just an old fan-promotional site and doesn't point people to fake sites :) luk3yx: DivideByZero: You said the website luk3yx: People here don't like that website being mentioned VanessaE: DivideByZero: because I said to get out of here with it. DivideByZero: Wow! DivideByZero: So much for an open community to be safe to safe information. DivideByZero: safe to share* GreenXenith: Thats the thing: Its not a safe site. VanessaE: that guy has a long history of lying, trashing people. TommyTreasure: you're pouring salt on an open wound grumble: DivideByZero maybe if you read your private messages you wouldnt run into awkward situations like this Jordach: >people responding to DMs or /msg Jordach: i know a few people like that DivideByZero: I didn't notice I had a message from you until you just told me to check. luk3yx: https://xkcd.com/1357/ VanessaE: get a better IRC client that doesn't hide your /msgs :) DivideByZero: Getting kicked for mentioning a site seems like this channel is turning into a dictatorship, or a communist party. You could have politely explained your issue with it. Jordach: that would fall under technical competencies VE VanessaE: DivideByZero: getting kicked for mentioning it, then being told NOT to mention it, then mentioning it again. VanessaE: to be clear. TommyTreasure: DBZ that's worse than my insults to the dev team.  i suggest you drop the subject Jordach: Minetest has always been a republic dictatorship calcul0n_: yeah, biggest problem with dictators is when they kick people from irc :p DivideByZero: To be clear you didn't say don't mention that site, you said "get out of here with that site". VanessaE: um DivideByZero: And explaination of why you feel that way would have been helpful. TommyTreasure: and you insist on talking about it DivideByZero: and an* .. VanessaE: doesn't it follow that if someone says get out, that talking further about it is kinda a bad idea? DivideByZero: And as I also said, if it is such a sore spot, why don't you all get the site shut down? Then no one could mention it. VanessaE: we have no control over it. Jordach: don't you think we've already t r i e d that DivideByZero: "Cease and desist order" GreenXenith: Well Jordach: if it's a stupid question, we've already answered it years ago TommyTreasure: dvz, with that theory, why don't you get freenode shutdown for allowing someone to kick you DivideByZero: Is Minetest trademarked? VanessaE: it's a scam website run by a hostile user who has no connection to Minetest anymore. DivideByZero: If it's trademarked you have rights. VanessaE: no it isn't. and in fact HE tried to trademark it, or threatened to. VanessaE: so just stop talking about it DivideByZero: Well Trademark it then. DivideByZero: Then you have the crontrol back. Jordach: >open source Jordach: >money Jordach: KEK TommyTreasure: i would never use he in caps in reference to him VanessaE: TommyTreasure: emphasis only. DivideByZero: Trademarking only costs around $400. I trademark my brand names. Jordach: these next words are from someone with experience in here appguru: DivideByZero: OldCoder drama is best left in the past, no point in stirring a long overcooked pot. Jordach: shut your mouth before it bites you on the arse luk3yx: Hi appguru luk3yx: Any progress with modlib? appguru: Hi luk appguru: heh Jordach: "progress" lmao DivideByZero: https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks appguru: progress. appguru: that's quite narrow minded -nan appguru: the world isn't the US Eggy1: pretty sure he filed in Australia DivideByZero: US trademarking helps to protect your marks in some other countries as well. Eggy1: I never heard how that went appguru: Back to topic, why is the serverlist so sluggish? Could it be that someone is DDOSing it? DivideByZero: China excluded for sure. Jordach: i wonder why Jordach: 🤔 TommyTreasure: its been down for about 3 hours now Eggy1: LOL, oldcoder should have filed trademark in China DivideByZero: Tommy: Why keep complaining? They already said someone will fix it ..eventually. GreenXenith: Down? I woulnd't say down. Slow, perhaps. GreenXenith: wouldnt* TommyTreasure: are you also my master? GreenXenith: No, I am your father. Jordach: we aren't slaves or at ransom to random shits like you btw Eggy1: +1 TommyTreasure: that would make you at leas 100 years old  LOL DivideByZero: I get kicked for mentioning a server, maybe you should get a kick for excessive complaining? Jordach: how about read the room and or staff VanessaE: you got kicked for mentioning a hostile person and his work after being told not to Eggy1: zero calm down TommyTreasure: dvd, do it! TommyTreasure: dvz, that is VanessaE: so just stop before someone makes it more permanent. TommyTreasure: you should research things before you make dumb comments jess: whoa whats going on here rubenwardy: trademarking costs $400, and taking down a .org site with a trademark costs $1500 rubenwardy: it's not worth it DivideByZero: Vanessa: You didn't actually tell me not to, but if that's you opinion I'm not going to argue with your position of authority and be repeatedly kicked, banned, or abused. I'll just accept that you are correct and leave it at that. GreenXenith: @rubenwardy It's free if you know which path to take :] VanessaE: good. appguru: Abused? appguru: Are you trolling? VanessaE: because no one here will say I'm wrong :) appguru: I don't see how anyone is abusing you here appguru: Stop abusing the english language Eggy1: start a gofundme Eggy1: you might get enough IhrFussel: Also MT needs to be a LLC or similar legal entity in order to trademark anything AFAIK Jordach: hold my beer DivideByZero: Ihr: that's not true. VanessaE: appguru, well do remember what they say about the English language: other languages grow and evolve. English follows them down dark alleys, beats them senselesss, an rifles through their pockets for new vocabulary. :) Eggy1: gtg sofar: trademarks can be registered to a person Jordach: also this appguru: Reasoning: We, as a project, have no interest in promoting servers that intentionally restrict themselves to the feature set of an old, potentially buggy version. appguru: Sounds reasonable VanessaE: appguru which is to say, English is already abusive, so to abuse it in response isn't so horrible :P appguru: lol MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Reasoning: Hmm... now, #3 on the serverlist is a 0.4.x server... ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3 -- Furnace segfault appguru: #3 on the serverlist doesn't matter at all ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3 -- Furnace segfault appguru: 5.x clients put it at the end of the serverlist anyways VanessaE: a 0.4.x server is fine on its own.. appguru: And let's be honest here, nobody uses the web serverlist appguru: And if we do, we just filter out 0.4.x VanessaE: a server that claims to support both protocols by definition needs to limit the 5.0 side to features 0.4 supports Hawk777: > We, as a project, have no interest in promoting servers that intentionally restrict themselves to the feature set of an old, potentially buggy version. Hawk777: A server running actual 0.4 has exactly the same problem, does it not? It is restricting itself to the feature set of an old, potentially buggy version? appguru: TBH I'd penalize 0.4 servers as well rubenwardy: doesn't make a different rubenwardy: it's functionally the same to clients, as clients push versions they don't support to the bottom appguru: Yeah appguru: Seeing as Multicraft appears to be hiding Minetest servers on Multicraft clients, it is probably fair to penalize their servers on Minetest clients appguru: Not to mention other questionable affiliations of the MuC-using network... MisterE, Modder of Sorts: If a server can make a game that works with the features of 0.4, whats wrong with that? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: if they can reach a wider audience, Id say more publicity, the better appguru: People have to be incentivized to upgrade MisterE, Modder of Sorts: why? appguru: Because supporting 0.4.x is a PITA for all involved. appguru: And upgrading isn't a remotely comparable PITA. Telesight: Hello all ... Is something going on with the serverlist? Jonathon: well yes, but stuff like FS51 make it easy appguru: 0.4.x is EOL, people should stop using it appguru: TBF the serverlist might even stop showing 0.4.x servers entirely IMO MisterE, Modder of Sorts: hmm... Id point out that the default linux packages are still on 0.4 for many OSs Jonathon: ^valid point appguru: Use the snap. DivideByZero: Debian still offers 0.4 IhrFussel: So a "simple switch" is definitely not viable for MT MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok... well, I see that even with the serverlist changes, Multicraft is still near the top, and I am satisfied with that. appguru: DivideByZero: Check. Your. Sources. "Since Ubuntu version 16.04, the spyware search facility is now disabled by default. It appears that the campaign of pressure launched by this article has been partly successful." Jonathon: i assume multicraft2 still supports minimum protocol version Jonathon: so that would be a "switch" Panquesito7: Is Texmex (tacotexmex) available here? ar10ch: Right, I know it can be done - it's like: U trundle along, u hit something, going forward no longer works but player is still pressing forward, so we'll go up. UNLESS player chooses sneak, because they've found a way around.... Yeah I wanna make a Star Wars style landspeeder that detects the ground in front of it and adjusts its altitude accordingly. But if something similar has already been done then, pls, point me to it, i ar10ch: dont wanna reinvent the wheel! Sorry for the long description but not sorry - sick of hearing RTFM. Thanks. Warr1024: I don't think there's any risk of reinventing the wheel if it's a landspeeder. VanessaE: camo modpack has hovercraft but they don't work well (moving one moves others) Extexo: rubenwardy: Ty sorry for late reply MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Sfan, I finally got the server up-n-running! Yay! Thx so much! Extexo: My formspec is ded Extexo: Every time I update it the hypertext bugs luk3yx: Extexo: Were you wanting help? Extexo: Yeah every time I update my formspec my hypertext bugs luk3yx: If so you might have better luck posting code/screenshots Extexo: https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/4bf4876723436d74/download_20210313_195916.png https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/a96fc00d2a876e8d/download_20210313_195914.png https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/e60635a181899f4c/download_20210313_195912.png Extexo: luk3yx Extexo: Order is bottom to top Extexo: I'm making an NPC communication api luk3yx: Extexo: Could you print() the formspecs before running minetest.show_formspec()? Extexo: Yeah gimme a sec Extexo: Oh nvm. Thanks luk3yx.code formatting coming back to bite me lol, I added tabs luk3yx: Ah okay luk3yx: You're welcome Extexo: I was using [[ and ]] for a string Extexo: And added tabs on the line breaks Extexo: I printed the form and noticed it Markow: Hi! Is there a way to disable the /killme command? Markow: I guess I would have to comment out the "minetest.register_chatcommand("killme", {" line Jonathon: You can override it Markow: I commented out the entire "minetest.register_chatcommand("killme" block of lines with --[[ --]] in the "init.lua" file. That did it. VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/pull/59 someone please review and merge this, if only so that I can close the damn browser tab :) sfan5: does that min_minetest_version kery in mod.conf actually exist? sfan5: never seen it before VanessaE: yep VanessaE: it's used by contentdb at leasty VanessaE: -y VanessaE: idk if the *engine* uses it tho sfan5: ah that might be Pie-jacker875: how can I paste into minetest when running it on plasma wayland? Pie-jacker875: I've not been able to play because I can't paste my password in from my password manager calcul0n: Pie-jacker875, did you try to paste twice? ie do ctrl-v ctrl-v, it's a common bug but it doesn't work for everyone Pie-jacker875: doesn't work Pie-jacker875: that's what I used to have to do when running on X calcul0n: ho, so no idea then :\ Pie-jacker875: the password manager I use is keepassxc SwissalpS: also sometimes helps to do ctrl-shift-v at times I open vim, paste the text in there, ctrl-shift-c it again and then paste into minetest SwissalpS: I launch minetest from a terminal too Pie-jacker875: doesn't work Pie-jacker875: I pasted the text in vim but can't copy it and paste it to minetest Krock: ctrl+V twice works for me Pie-jacker875: or rather, I can copy it from vim Pie-jacker875: can't paste it in minetest though Pie-jacker875: again, I'm on plasma wayland IhrFussel: You could use something like xdotool to type it from a file/script IhrFussel: But xdotool itself might only work on X SwissalpS: I am currently also using wayland. Can only repeat what has been said: multiple times paste with and without shift Surfer2011: hello Surfer2011: i installed a minetest instance as docker container (linuxserver.io) and there is no auth.txt sfan5: auth moved into a database some versions ago Surfer2011: ok and how would i edit it? since i put my username into the mintetest.conf as name abcplayer ? supposed to be a blank and no = inbetween? sfan5: put name = abcplayer into minetest.conf, you'll have admin privileges when you log in with that name Surfer2011: ok got it works, at the wiki it is listed with "blank" inbetween maybe one needs to correct it Surfer2011: ah no i missunderstood https://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest.conf Surfer2011: blank is default :D not the seperator Surfer2011: thanks for the quick help Krock: Extexo: why the hell does this exist? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/555039171744628750/819101935784820777/download_20210309_225729.png Jonathon: lol, the tall looking thing Jordach: disgustan DS-minetest: name suits very well DS-minetest: why is there minetest.add_item that just pcalls minetest.spawn_item???? DS-minetest: and is implemented in c++ Extexo: How does hypertext[] work? I can't get it to work/do anything MisterE, Modder of Sorts: could someone help me truobleshoot port forwarding ssh? Extexo: Ooh working now Extexo: But Idk how to use it XD Extexo: I'm trying to make clickable text with no underline, and custom colour and hover colour Extexo: Also how do fonts work? Extexo: How would I do that? Extexo: Ok... I guess everyone must be asleep Extexo: I'll ask again tommorow I guess AndrewYu_: Hi! Is there a mod to teleport a player to a random place? cheapie: AndrewYu_: Like on command, or at random, or... ? AndrewYu_: On command, preferrably from a command block (mesecon) Jonathon: No, but you could /teleport insert random cords Jonathon: *not that i know of AndrewYu_: Ouch AndrewYu_: Then is there a way to do random numbers? AndrewYu_: From command blocks :( cheapie: Do you have WorldEdit installed? If so, it's easy enough. AndrewYu_: Yes I do AndrewYu_: I've got most of the common mods AndrewYu_: /lua? cheapie: //lua minetest.get_player_by_name("@nearest"):set_pos(vector.new(math.random(-5000,5000),math.random(25,50),math.random(-5000,5000))) cheapie: Change numbers to taste. AndrewYu_: Awh, thx AndrewYu_: ill try to implement that in a lua block cheapie: Of course you can also replace @nearest with a fixed player name. AndrewYu_: or actually, just use //lua in a commandblock cheapie: That was the suggestion, yes :P cheapie: These things work great to stop people from complaining that they can't find anywhere to build - on one server I just put in one of those, set for X and Z to be +/- 5000 and a fixed value of 50 for Y (no fall damage on that server), and attached a button to it. AndrewYu_: Yueah, fall damage is a problem cheapie: Then if people tell me they can't find somewhere to build... "go push that there button, if you don't like where you land just /spawn and try again" AndrewYu_: cheapie: That's exactly what I'm trying to do, thx AndrewYu_: Ouch, copy paste doesnt work in MT for me lol AndrewYu_: cheapie: A silly question... how do I disable fall damage? Only fall damage, not other types of damage? Thanks cheapie: AndrewYu_: Not sure off the top of my head if that's possible - the server I set this up on just has damage disabled entirely. cheapie: (creative server) AndrewYu_: Awh, that's also a viable option. I have a non-creative server which I just set as no-damage. Extexo: It is possible Extexo: minetest.register_on_player_hpchange(function(player, hp_change, reason) Extexo: if hp_change < 0 and reason.type == "fall" then Extexo: return 0 Extexo: end Extexo: return hp_change Extexo: end, true) Extexo: AndrewYu_ AndrewYu_: Extexo: Thanks smugler5[m]: Do `.obj` files work in mesh nodes? cheapie: I have no idea if anyone here ever used my "chat6" client mod way back in the day, but I think I have it working in 5.x now :) cheapie: (the one that does chat highlighting/nick coloring/timestamping sorta like HexChat does) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Chatcommands: Show the execution time if the command takes a long tim… 1388b052c https://git.io/JqCoo (152021-03-13T10:18:25Z) White_Feather: hi AndrewYu: How can I use a command block and a luacontroller to place a specific block at a specific position without the command block owner being online and doing the //1 and //2 things sfan5: look into //fixedpos AndrewYu: thx AndrewYu: Then... how do I do relative positions in command blocks? AndrewYu: For example, if I have a command block @ 0,0,0 it worldedits something to 0,1,0 if i have a commandblock of the same command @ 0,1,0, it worldedits something to 0,2,0 sfan5: that's something the command block itself would have to support Extexo: I'm trying to make clickable text with no underline, and custom colour and hover colour with hypertext[] Extexo: I can't figure it out Pexin: Extexo: where specifically? Extexo: Wdym? Extexo: Like what position? Pexin: like, in csm, c++, chat window, formspec? Extexo: Ohh Extexo: Formspec Pexin: ah. out of my field sorry. i personally just finished clickable weblinks for the chat window. would like someone to test it on a mac keyboard before submitting pull request.. Pexin: https://github.com/pecksin/minetest for whoever is interested. already sent to #minetest-dev Krock: Pexin: changes should usually be done in separate branches btw Pexin: Krock: I'm very new to git, sorry. more accustomed to svn, and have taught C++ before. but not git.. Jordach: https://xkcd.com/1597/ is always a handy referene Jordach: reference Pexin: Jordach: yes. this seems accurate. Extexo: Lol Krock: @Jordach well yeah it's kinda like that DS-minetest: is there some way to reliably get a path in lua, ie. such that no other mod could've manipulated it? DS-minetest: get_modpath and co. could be overridden by other mods, and if I want to use secure environment outside my init.lua file, using this path to get the file is insecure DS-minetest: the secure env also contains minetest, but it's the same table Krock: all exposed functions can be hooked Krock: including request_secure_env DS-minetest: but not the functions contained directly in the secure env. they can only be hooked by trusted mods Krock: what if you hook them inside a hooked request_secure_env function? the current executed mod name would be allowed Krock: unless Minetest also checks the call stack sfan5: it does DS-minetest: insecure* btw Krock: oh then it's good DS-minetest: "the secure env also contains minetest, but it's the same table" Edit: oops, wrong, I've tested with mod security disabled appguru: The problem is that everything could be hooked (except for request_insecure_environment() of course, as that checks the stack). This includes absolutely necessary Lua-builtins like pairs or dofile, as well as minetest functions and APIs of other mods. Mod security doesn't really work well. DS-minetest: it contains core, but it's minetest* DS-minetest: functions like dofile and pairs at least can be securely accessed via the insecure env. I've just tried overriding next before using insec_env.pairs, and it didn't use the hooked one Extexo: Does anybody here have experience with formspec hypertext[]? Sokomine: not much yet. but it's a nice feature. i hope to be able to find time to create a mod to talk to npc eventually Krock: Extexo: see example in devtest Splyncryth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wxc3mKqKTk MisterE, Modder of Sorts: could someone help me compile a run-in-place version of MT 5.4? sfan5: sure MisterE, Modder of Sorts: for Ubuntu server on a raspi MisterE, Modder of Sorts: thx! MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so, I have made a new directory in /opt MisterE, Modder of Sorts: called minetest5 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: and then I have entered that dir. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: then following irrichit's instruct MisterE, Modder of Sorts: from here: MisterE, Modder of Sorts: https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht sfan5: sec sfan5: I suggest trying these instructions first https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=311160#p311160 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok... looking MisterE, Modder of Sorts: wow... that looks simple. Is it up-to-date for 5.4? sfan5: yes MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so "enter Minetest Version:" what do I put? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I want the latest stable 5.4 sfan5: either stable-5 sfan5: or 5.4.0 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok. and I can run it again to change my mind? sfan5: yes MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I put the worng thin 😛 DS-minetest: how can I modify the cmake stuff to change the linker options? (I'd like something similar to the gcc option `-Wl,--dynamic-list=dynamic_list_file.txt`(, where dynamic_list_file.txt is a file)) sfan5: src/CMakeLists.txt ctrl+f CMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS MisterE, Modder of Sorts: its working 😄 DS-minetest: thanks! MisterE, Modder of Sorts: Its still running... there was this output, which looks like a possible error: MisterE, Modder of Sorts: In file included from /usr/include/string.h:495, from /usr/include/c++/9/cstring:42, from /var/tmp/tmp.NqqdZvODVb/minetest/src/util/srp.cpp:43: In function ‘void* memcpy(void*, const void*, size_t)’, inlined from ‘int calculate_x(__mpz_struct*, SRP_HashAlgorithm, const unsigned char*, size_t, const char*, const unsigned char*, size_t)’ at MTDiscord: /var/tmp/tmp.NqqdZvODVb/minetest/src/util/srp.cpp:432:8: /usr/include/aarch64-linux-gnu/bits/string_fortified.h:34:33: warning: ‘void* __builtin_memcpy(void*, const void*, long unsigned int)’ forming offset [65, 4294967295] is out of the bounds [0, 64] of object ‘ucp_hash’ with type ‘unsigned char [64]’ [-Warray-bounds] 34 | return __builtin___memcpy_chk (__dest, __src, __len, __bos0 (__dest)); | MTDiscord: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /var/tmp/tmp.NqqdZvODVb/minetest/src/util/srp.cpp: In function ‘int calculate_x(__mpz_struct*, SRP_HashAlgorithm, const unsigned char*, size_t, const char*, const unsigned char*, size_t)’: /var/tmp/tmp.NqqdZvODVb/minetest/src/util/srp.cpp:443:16: note: ‘ucp_hash’ declared here 443 | unsigned char ucp_hash[SHA512_DIGEST_LENGTH]; | ^~~~~~~~ MisterE, Modder of Sorts: IDK if its anything to worry abt sfan5: nah sfan5: just a warning Extexo: Krock: oh ty MisterE, Modder of Sorts: it finished and says successful 😄 Extexo: How do I load all the lua files within a directory? rubenwardy: minetest.get_dir_list(path, false) rubenwardy: and dofile rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4429 rubenwardy: and maybe a substr if you have non Lua files in the dir DS-minetest: lol, dofile the readme rubenwardy: str:substr(#str - 4) == ".lua" rubenwardy: ish rubenwardy: well, might be an idea to use a subfolder for this rubenwardy: eg: `modules` DS-minetest: str:sub(-4) == ".lua" * rubenwardy: oh nice rubenwardy: substr is C++ :D DS-minetest: anyway, just naively dofileing all lua files in unspecified order is a pretty bad idea rubenwardy: depends what you're doing rubenwardy: it may be fine if they're modules with no deps DS-minetest: hm, yes rubenwardy: but it might be worth using pcall setfenv for modules rubenwardy: and loadfile DS-minetest: why? rubenwardy: to restrict modules to defined functions, so they're unlikely to develop deps DS-minetest: i see MisterE, Modder of Sorts: sfan... so, I have set up the server. I can start the server with /opt/minetest-5.4.0-linux/bin/minetestserver. how do I stop the server with a command line interface command MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: or, this can be for anyone who knows... sfan5: if you start it it will keep running until you exit the terminal it's running in sfan5: or do ctrl+c to kill it sfan5: if you actually want to run it in the background I can suggest screen or tmux sfan5: or a system service (a bit more complicated) sfan5: systemd* MisterE, Modder of Sorts: yes, I use screen MisterE, Modder of Sorts: but... I will have multiple users connecting to the same acct via ssh (cli not minetest) MisterE, Modder of Sorts: I want each and any of them to be able to shut the server down or restart it MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so, can I use screen for that? hisforever: Hi I really need help https://pastebin.com/nQduxyrH there is a pastbin of my debug.txt sfan5: sure sfan5: they'll need to attach to the screen and press ctrl+c to exit the server sfan5: hisforever: I don't see any errors MisterE, Modder of Sorts: how would you attach to the screen? sfan5: screen -r sfan5: detach by Ctrl+a then d hisforever: ok I'll past an image then hisforever: https://imgur.com/a/2FHOszp thre ia an image sfan5: sounds like you are missing mesecons_switch hisforever: ok thanks sfan5 MisterE, Modder of Sorts: sorry to be obtuse, but what does screen -r actually do? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: say I conntect via ssh to the user MisterE, Modder of Sorts: then if I did screen -r, what would that do? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: nm, I should test it Jonathon: when you have multiple screens you can screen -r name i believe Pexin: also if someone left the screen attached or didn't exit properly, then you need an additional option I don't recall off the top of my head MisterE, Modder of Sorts: what do you mean by left the screen attached? MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so... yeah I started screen, then I started minetest, then I logged on with another computer into the same acct. MisterE, Modder of Sorts: so doing screen -r gives: There are screens on: 9065.pts-0.ubuntu (03/13/21 23:33:34) (Attached) 8845.pts-3.ubuntu (03/13/21 23:28:59) (Attached) There is no screen to be resumed. sfan5: you should detach from it first so other people (or just you on another session) can reattach sfan5: i'll be off now so you should try your luck with a screen tutorial/instructions MisterE, Modder of Sorts: ok thx numzero: to shutdown the server, you can use the kill command (like: kill -INT server-process-id-here). or pkill (like: pkill -INT minetestserver) but it will kill all servers if several are running numzero: from any terminal/ssh connection numzero: that (with the -INT flag) does exactly the same what ctrl+c does Swift110-mobile: Hey remihacker5: hello! i have a problem and its complicated. i have a old dell pc running minetest. the dell pc is connected to the internet using a raspberry pi, which acts ast a ethernet to wifi adaptor. remihacker5: i have port forwarding enabled on my router but i still cant connect to the minetest server. remihacker5: port forwarding works with ssh, but not minetest. Hawk777: SSH to the PC works, or SSH to the Pi works? remihacker5: ssh to the pi works Hawk777: Depending on how exactly your “Ethernet to Wifi adapter” thing works—whether it’s bridged, routed, NAT, has firewall, does not have firewall, etc.—have you open or forwarded the necessary ports there too? Hawk777: Whatever software or scripts you’re running on the Pi to accomplish that task. remihacker5: yes, i used iptables to forward all ports to the pc Hawk777: UDP, for the Minetest port, in comparison to SSH’s TCP? remihacker5: i told the pi to forward all protocals, UDP and TCP Hawk777: Does the PC have its own firewall where ports also need to be opened? remihacker5: i have also open the ports on the pc. if i connect to the pi on the local network, it allows me to join the game. but if i use my external ip, it doesn't work remihacker5: my laptop --> raspberry PI --> old PC. works remihacker5: my laptop --> my router --> PI --> old PC, does not work remihacker5: does this make any sense? Hawk777: And when you connect from the local network, you’re using the Pi’s IP address, not the PC’s address? remihacker5: yes Hawk777: And from the outside, you’re using the router’s public address? remihacker5: yes Hawk777: And the router has both port forwards set up pointing at the Pi’s internal address, not the desktop’s? remihacker5: yes Hawk777: When you say you can’t connect using the external IP, are you actually on a separate network when you try this, or are you using the external IP address but from within the same network? remihacker5: i am within the same network, but i assumed it would not make a diffrence Hawk777: Apparently not all routers allow this—what’s called “NAT hairpinning”, “NAT loopback”, or “NAT reflection”—and it’s possible that there might be some routers where hairpinning works for TCP but not UDP. remihacker5: huh remihacker5: is there any possible way to enable that? Hawk777: There might be an option in your router control panel. Hawk777: If not, and assuming this is actually the problem, then I guess you would have to use your Pi’s internal address whenever you’re inside the network and your public address whenever you’re elsewhere (or for other people to join). Hawk777: But it wouldn’t prevent connecting altogether, since you would have those options. remihacker5: well, thank you for your help! remihacker5: you have pointed me in a better direction than i was before. Hawk777: Hope you can sort it out. Swift110-mobile: Are any of you guys playing minetest on a tablet or phone? Swift110-mobile: I have t on my android phone and my Amazon fire 10 he As well r1bnc: Anyone know how can I see the death reason when I am killed, will display before death formspec? I tried to make a csm mod  using `minetest.register_on_dieplayer(function(player, reason)` but minetest crashes with `nil` register_on_dieplayer value. r1bnc: The error: `death_reason:init.lua:30: attempt to call local 'register_on_dieplayer' (a nil value)` r1bnc: That function is already merged with minetest @ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6396 r1bnc: Hmm, it appears to be a server side mod not CSM r1bnc: Is there a way to put this on CSM and display on chat who killed you...? Swift110-mobile: Oh r1bnc: ? IhrFussel: If it's about a prticular multiplayer server you could ask the staff if they could add some server side way to see who killed you in PvP if that is all you need IhrFussel: particular* IhrFussel: It would take 10 minutes max to implement that in a server mod...so 'no time' would be a silly reason to refuse it r1bnc: Oh. I think they wont implement it ... y5nw: I think the client side registration function is core.register_on_death y5nw: Except I don't think you can use it to get the reason of death. And depending on the server you play on there can be other things that can kill you appguru: The server does not send the death reason to the client. That requires use of mod channels. y5nw: I don't think currently death messages can be implemented easily unless you use mods that suppprt/have such a feature or modify existing mods appguru: 😏 VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/pull/59 someone review and merge this so I can close the damn browser tab :) Fixer: with each passing day minecraft becomes more minetest-like sfan5: it becomes worse? [Pokey]: oufe Krock: lol rubenwardy: lol rubenwardy: "oufe" feels very French to me Fixer: it looks more like minetest Fixer: they added copper and cave generation that has a lot of minetest vibes Krock: how about mgv7 3d cave "veins"? Fixer: all i can see it feels more like minetest Krock: I'm quite curious now. do you know of a preview/showcase video? Fixer: eh, let me see Fixer: Krock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ghK8EX5XU / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgVWM54A6bM / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m38yVg6rb6w Fixer: vanessas vibes too VanessaE: hm? Fixer: VanessaE: lush caves biome reminds me of VE-S or so Krock: thanks Fixer VanessaE: oh Krock: Fixer: is that ilmango German by any chance? Fixer: y Krock: lol okay Krock: yet no stone pillars in Minetest caves.. Krock: imagine being excited about negative Y values Fixer: lol, yes Fixer: still would like to see proper stacked worlds in minetest thingy Krock: can be implemented in mods tho Krock: there's almost more caves than solid ground Krock: 10 months after a clean system setup it seems about time for me to install worldedit MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update Gitlab-CI configuration too 13f213376 https://git.io/JqCtk (152021-03-12T19:55:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up cmake DLL installation and other minor things 13bb1c4ba https://git.io/JqCtI (152021-03-12T19:55:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Enable Irrlicht debug logging with --trace 13051bc9e https://git.io/JqCts (152021-03-12T19:56:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid unnecessary copies during media/mesh loading 131bc85a4 https://git.io/JqCtG (152021-03-12T19:56:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Handle mesh load failure without crashing 13cff35cf https://git.io/JqCtn (152021-03-12T19:56:02Z) DivideByZero: Trying to use an auto item pickup mod, there are a few versions floating around. Does anyone know if this is the most current, or can suggest a better one? : https://github.com/minetest-mods/item_drop sfan5: if it's from the mintest-mods github org it's probably good DivideByZero: The magnet (items fly to player) part doesn't seem to work though. I have to stand on the item for it to be picked up. DivideByZero: Have been changing it's settings to try to make it work, but it may be broken. No setting changes seem to remedy it to work. DivideByZero: its DS-minetest: I've found another reason to wish µ$oft windoze wouldn't exist, even though I don't need to use it: it still affects me https://github.com/Desour/minetest/runs/2081924088?check_suite_focus=true sfan5: why not use UUIDs instead of inventing your own sfan5: beside the point though DS-minetest: 128 might be too small DS-minetest: s/128/128 bit/ sfan5: for what sfan5: are you concerned with collisions? DS-minetest: yeah DS-minetest: my plan: DS-minetest: 1. gain world dominion sfan5: idea: base part of the uuid on the current game time DS-minetest: 2. force everybody to make new objects in lua with a guid DS-minetest: 3. ... DS-minetest: 4. profit sfan5: brilliant plan DS-minetest: the game time is just another counter sfan5: but it's a monotonic counter DS-minetest: anyway, it doesn't really matter how you generate the numbers, does it? DS-minetest: so anything is valid, and having no collisions even in extreme situations is a thing that is better to have and not need than to not have and need DivideByZero: Vanessa: I've been getting this error on your dreambuilder_hotbar since you updated about 5 hours ago: https://0bin.net/paste/ENjY9n2N#FArqf0H5Ojfk3XLZLtyaZxABQbwlumNgCQ8+7HUpSjU VanessaE: damn it. VanessaE: I'll fix it asap VanessaE: must be a copypaste error while working on dreambuilder game stuff VanessaE: can anyone tell me where the ESC/Pause menu is defined? or rather, at exactly what point in the game are its colors picked up? DS-minetest: the colors come from the formspec prepend VanessaE: DivideByZero: https://pastebin.com/GaRtriRU replace init.lua with this and tell me if it works VanessaE: DS-minetest: ok, thanks DivideByZero: Ok, one moment Vanessa, and I'll report back. cheapie: Heh, negative formspec versions are... interesting :P VanessaE: interesting? cheapie: (same results as with anything that's not an integer - but not 0 - 0 acts like 1) cheapie: VanessaE: Default size, all elements crammed into the upper left corner, with a size of 0,0 for any elements that use a size. DS-minetest: -1 is probably casted to 0xffff, as m_formspec_version is a u16 cheapie: Version 4 (how this formspec is meant to look): https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210310_190838.png cheapie: What most garbage versions (-1, 3.5, "potato", "", etc.) give: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210310_190849.png luk3yx: VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/75eb28b95994781d52eb2c09303b1cd04e32b6c5/src/client/game.cpp#L4097-L4232 cheapie: DS-minetest: Yep, sure enough, formspec_version[65535] causes it to render like 4, but 65536 makes it act like 0/1 again. luk3yx: Oh your question was already answered cheapie: (and 65540 gives correct rendering again, and so on) DS-minetest: yep, normal arithmetic modulo 2^16 cheapie: That does however suggest that -1 isn't turning into 65535 though, as 65535 gets treated like 4. VanessaE: DivideByZero: fixed in git DS-minetest: weird numzero: cheapie: 65535 remains 65535, but the comparison is like `version >= 4` in most places so there is no difference between 4, 5, ..., 65535 DivideByZero: Vanessa: That seems to have fixed it. Thanks for quick fix. I'll update from git now and make sure it works for you also. VanessaE: yw cheapie: numzero: Yeah, that part makes sense - I'm mostly just curious why the negative/garbage versions act the way they do. DS-minetest: ah, there's a is_number check. DivideByZero: My server is slow to startup. I noticed skinsdb takes 13 seconds to load through all the skins. DS-minetest: so, this is why it doesn't parse the negative numbers DS-minetest: in formspec_version DivideByZero: Vanessa: git version looks good now too. VanessaE: 👍 Biggvs_Richardvs: Hi all, got a bug report for aliveai: Biggvs_Richardvs: https://justpaste.it/4tcdh Biggvs_Richardvs: Running MT 5.3.0, not sure if upgrade will help Jonathon: make a issue on the repo https://github.com/AiTechEye/aliveai Biggvs_Richardvs: I did. Biggvs_Richardvs: But I posted on IRC about it in the dev channel and they asked me to post it here instead :) Jonathon: yeah, i see that sorry Biggvs_Richardvs: np Jonathon: this guy......does not use git Jonathon: well, in the usual sense Jonathon: so i cant even look at difs Jonathon: *correction, i can, its just a step longer Biggvs_Richardvs: neato. It's a cool mod, would like to have it working. Willing to offer my server up as guinea pig Biggvs_Richardvs: I probably should have mentioned that I turned off every other mod, like all of them, and ran nothing but aliveAI and all its associated mods (aliveai_aliens etc) and it still crashed Jonathon: do you have a way of replicating the error? Jonathon: >compatible with minetest 0.4.16 and newer (tested in 5.4-dev) this.......is odd Biggvs_Richardvs: Ya basically whenever we get attacked by a mob, there are a bunch of "rapid fire" hits on us, we die, and then the server crashes. Like every time Biggvs_Richardvs: It's like machine gun rapid fire - go from full health to dead in about 3 seconds Biggvs_Richardvs: That may be by design - there's some nasty mobs in there :) Jonathon: you could test 5.4, not sure if that would actually do anything Biggvs_Richardvs: Ya that's what I'm working on Biggvs_Richardvs: Server is an older (18) version of Mint, so working on upgrading to 5.4 now Jonathon: seems to be 2 ways of fixing it, nil check(then do what?) or figure out why its getting nil Biggvs_Richardvs: Ok I'm now upgraded to 5.4.0 and still got exactly the same crash Jonathon: not suprised Biggvs_Richardvs: The version of the mod I'm using is the latest from git Jonathon: do you actually want a fix, or just a dont crash my server till the maintainer patches it? Biggvs_Richardvs: yes :) Biggvs_Richardvs: I'll take either Jonathon: block comment out aliveai.searchobjects=function(self) (the whole function) and try adding below it aliveai.searchobjects=function(self) return end Jonathon: since it looks like at the start it checks a bunch of stuff, and if those conditions are meet it doesnt execute anything, so all your doing is making sure it never executes Jonathon: (im not at a computer where i can test that) Jonathon: not sure if that will break things further on in the mod or not Biggvs_Richardvs: ok. Worth trying. Just a sec Biggvs_Richardvs: Is that in aliveai_threats? Jonathon: . /home/minetest/.minetest/mods/aliveai/aliveai/event.lua:600 its literally in your error message lol Biggvs_Richardvs: hah. I thin kthere's a few files mentioned in there - just wanted to make sure Biggvs_Richardvs: So I commented out the whole function and put this in: Biggvs_Richardvs: aliveai.searchobjects=function(self) return end Biggvs_Richardvs: end is on another line Biggvs_Richardvs: getting /home/minetest/.minetest/mods/aliveai/aliveai/event.lua:590: unexpected symbol near '#' Biggvs_Richardvs: I'm a noob Biggvs_Richardvs: Something stupid simple I know Biggvs_Richardvs: WAit. I was using #'s for comments. Bash habits Jonathon: oof Jonathon: is it "working" now? Biggvs_Richardvs: lol What do I use for comments in lua? Biggvs_Richardvs: --[[ got it Jonathon: and close with ]]-- Biggvs_Richardvs: Ok it's "working" but now I don't seem to have any mobs Biggvs_Richardvs: But it's not crashing with aliveai running now, so thank you Jonathon: "working" Jonathon: does it have spawn eggs or something? Jonathon: or can you call /spawnentity mod:entityname Biggvs_Richardvs: Not sure Biggvs_Richardvs: How could I tell? Jonathon: look in inventory? Jonathon: ofc aliveai cant register from a entity def itself Jonathon: 🤦‍♂️ Jonathon: that would make it to easy Jonathon: try /spawnentity aliveai_ants:ant Jonathon: seems to register them as modname:mobname VanessaE: although there appears to be no present need for it, is there a way to tell the client "here's a piece of text, cache it client-side and let me call upon it with some handle later"? like node metadata but without being tied to a node VanessaE: I've been giving some thought to my revised UI code, since it did increase the formspec size a bit (not by much compared to before). I wouldn't mind shoring that up, juuuuust in case some dinosaur is still using dial-up :) sfan5: no sfan5: that sounds so specific that it could be solved by CSM sfan5: (once it's implement in an unspecified timeframe) sfan5: implemented* VanessaE: well if SSCSM becomes a thing I suppose that would do the job VanessaE: if I run into a dial-up user, I'll just tell them to get out of the 1990's ;) Warr1024: If you're worried about bandwidth, I did some experiments and looked into per-packet compression using stuff like zlib, lzo, etc. It would probably help a lot with formspecs ... but I found it only had like a 2% to 5% impact overall because block transfer dominated bandwidth. Warr1024: For all the trouble it'd entail, 5% doesn't seem worth it. VanessaE: Warr": well it's just that I have this fleeting worry that the extra 2k of formspec data might negatively impact like, one person somewhere :P VanessaE: though I suppose UI was already generating like 10k of it :P Warr1024: I worry about network issues too, and there are people who play on cellular or satellite, which is basically the modern equivalent of dial-up (only somehow worse in some cases). VanessaE: haha Conradish006: What is satellite? :P Warr1024: Some users are so bandwidth-constrained that I'd considered tunneling UDP over TCP so I could get cross-packet compression, but unfortunately those networks are also the kind that have the worst packet loss so TCP meltdown would be a problem. VanessaE: well I guess since it's not really a problem (more a "could I do better?" thing) then I won't worry about it Conradish006: I one time stayed at a place that had satellite internet, and the whole week it was stormy. Warr1024: Satellite internet is a punishment for living too far from a city, where they charge you $75 a month for what 256k ISDN would have been like if the ISDN line had 2000ms latency, and with a 10GB monthly cap. Conradish006: I tried to play MT once, but it wasn't happening. VanessaE: Warr: oh G*d. no thanks :P Conradish006: Even rural places here have fiber VanessaE: I'm out in the sticks and still get 200 Mbps down (12 or something up) on cable. Warr1024: The only reason HughesNet is legal in the USA is because the 8th amendment only applies to action by the government, not a private business. Conradish006: We *have* fiber to our house, but we only have cable going inside. VanessaE: supposedly my ISP offers nearly[*] gigabit in my general region. dunno if that's fibre, or if it's available at my address VanessaE: [*] nearly being like 950 Mbps or something Warr1024: I live in low-density-suburbia/rural, about 30 minutes from the city, and I've got fiber with at least gigabit speed options. I have family that lives another 40 minutes away, and they recently switched from satellite to cellular and get the same crappy service, but for like $15 cheaper, and those are their only 2 options. Conradish006: Yeah, they never actually push 1000 Mbps VanessaE: but at the price they charge for it, no thanks Warr1024: tbh I didn't even consider the cellular option at first because I assumed that no "fixed-location service" could be worse or more expensive than cellular. I was wrong. Conradish006: We pay $90 a month for 150 down, and we're switching to a plan that is $90 a month for gigabit. Conradish006: Have to buy a new modem tho VanessaE: 'scuse me, "Gigabit Internet - up to 900 Mbps downloads" for $150/mo Conradish006: DOCSIS 3.1 modems are really expensive though VanessaE: (my present pipe is $50/mo)\ Warr1024: I pay $75 I think and get about 130 up/down, at least on a good day (can't tell how much is constrained by my link, my router, or speed test servers) VanessaE: (had to satisfy that escaped newline ;) ) Conradish006: It's weird how we pay for 150 down but get over 200 down VanessaE: that's how it was for me for a while there, Conradish006 VanessaE: I was paying for 100/3, then one day I noticed my speeds had gone up, discovered that they gave everyone an upgrade Conradish006: huh, the ping has gone down Conradish006: I finally replaced all the cat 5 cables with cat 6, and the ping went down Conradish006: Went from 30-35 to 15-20 VanessaE: 9ms here VanessaE: my ISP may be a little pricey but I can't fault their performance Conradish006: same Conradish006: They go above and beyond what is promised y5nw: At least you all use wired Internet celeron55: it seem starlink is the solution to rural USA, once you can get it without begging them celeron55: seems* VanessaE: I still have my reservations about that one rom1504: is there any physical difficulty to installing fiber in the US or is it only political issues ? celeron55: it's satellite, but they fly much closer so they don't have the latency Conradish006: I just ran a speedtest, I got 230 Mbps down, 12 up. And that was about 20 feet from the router behind a closed door. VanessaE: but, just being relatively new tech and all Conradish006: This ASUS router is amazing celeron55: and modern so it's high bandwidth VanessaE: celeron55: exactly. it's irrational caution on my part :) rom1504: why is 1Gb/s fiber at 35$/month in europe and 4 time the price in US (if available at all) ? VanessaE: rom1504: why else? VanessaE: greed. rubenwardy: europe is also denser VanessaE: people like to claim it's population density but that wouldn't explain it being expensive inside a m ajor metropolis rubenwardy: although, that would only effect rural areas rubenwardy: yeah y5nw: rom1504: Until you realize that cellular costs a lot y5nw: rom1504: I pay 80€/month for 50GB of volume from Vodafone rom1504: I pay 20€/month for 4G and unlimited rom1504: yeah ok so basically nobody challenged the big players and the gov let it happen ? y5nw: I hope I could get by own wired Internet connection, except I can't rom1504: I don't see any reason for starlink not to make people pay >100$/month rom1504: apparently other companies are doing it, so why wouldn't they increase their margin celeron55: starlink will ask a bit less to get every customer from every company to switch to them celeron55: but probably not much less rom1504: yeah rom1504: in france what happened is one provider decided to do /2 on the usual price 10 years ago rom1504: then all providers had to do the same rom1504: if that kind of things doesn't happen, the price will stay high y5nw: Here only the mobile network from Vodafone and (afaik) Telekom work at all. I think the case is similar for wired y5nw: Here = the town I live in right now y5nw: I don't think the telecom operators here want to reduce the price here DS-minetest: how can I build minetest with an explicitly set luajit version? I have both luajit2.0 and luajit2.1 installed and want to build with luajit2.0. I'm calling cmake with `cmake -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DLUA_INCLUDE_DIR=/usr/include/luajit-2.0/ -DLUA_LIBRARY=/usr/lib/libluajit-5.1.so.2.0.5`. But when I print jit.version in minetest it still says LuaJIT 2.1.0-beta3. DS-minetest: oh, and cmake says: -- Found LuaJIT: /usr/lib/libluajit-5.1.so.2.0.5 (found version "") DS-minetest: -- Using LuaJIT provided by system. sfan5: are you sure it's loading the right luajit at runtime? sfan5: check with ldd sfan5: also: you can see the lua version with ./bin/minetest --version, no need to start an in-game session DS-minetest: ldd says libluajit-5.1.so.2 => /usr/lib/libluajit-5.1.so.2 DS-minetest: minetest_dev --version says Using LuaJIT 2.0.5 DS-minetest: hm, there might be something wrong with my luajit installations sfan5: libluajit-5.1.so.2 will pick whatever libluajit-5.1.so.2.* it finds first DS-minetest: yes, I see that now too DS-minetest: how does that work? sfan5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soname DS-minetest: I didn't know such symlinks exist DS-minetest: ok, but then why does minetest pick libluajit-5.1.so.2 and not libluajit-5.1.so.2.0.5 ? sfan5: % objdump -p /usr/lib/libluajit-5.1.so.2.0.5 | grep SONAME sfan5: SONAME libluajit-5.1.so.2 DS-minetest: ok, I've made a new libluajit-5.1.so.2.3.0 that is a link to libluajit-5.1.so.2.0.5 DS-minetest: ugly, but works DS-minetest: though I get a src/script/cpp_api/s_base.cpp:8c: static int ScriptApiBase::luaPanic(lua_State*): A fatal error occurred: LUA PANIC: unprotected error in call to Lua API (not enough memory) when using much memory in lua sfan5: built luajit with gc64? DS-minetest: idk, tbh DS-minetest: the 2.0 luajit is the one from the arch repos and the 2.1 is from the AUR with some modifications DS-minetest: :/ now I can't use luajit2.1 anymore sfan5: "some modifications"? DS-minetest: no modifications in the build settings, just some lines to avoid conflicts between both versions being installed simultaniously sfan5: I could just have said this: if you do not remember explicitly enabling gc64 then it's not enabled sfan5: replacing lj205 with lj210 system-wide is unlikely to break anything btw DS-minetest: yeah, but I'd like to have both for testing DS-minetest: thanks for your help! TIL something new y5nw: Apparently LuaJIT does have ARM64 support, but not for MacOS y5nw: (Or is it specific to Debian?) sfan5: @y5nw no, not specific to debian; luajit works fine on Linux/ARM64 eugenefil: hi, can anyone please help, trying to build minetest from master w/ forked irrlicht, getting "libGL error: failed to create drawable" and then "X Error of failed request: GLXBadContext" eugenefil: full logs at https://pastebin.com/i9rbuNqy eugenefil: minetest 5.4.0 from distro package works fine eugenefil: am I doing smth wrong? (I'm building minetest for the first time) sfan5: when you run ldd ./bin/minetest, is the path Irrlicht is loaded from correct? eugenefil: libIrrlicht.so.1.9 => /home/fil/w/mt/irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlicht.so.1.9 eugenefil: seems so sfan5: if you happen to have the system package around, does it also link to /usr/lib/libOpenGL.so? or a different one (perhaps named glvnd)? Krock: eugenefil: are you sure that's specific to new builds, and old ones still work? That sometimes break when it's doing driver updates behind the scenes eugenefil: sfan5: they both link to libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x00007fc73e63d000) sfan5: why does cmake say it found /usr/lib/libOpenGL.so then? 🤔 eugenefil: Krock: i'm not sure, building minetest for the first time ever eugenefil: sfan5: in CMakeCache.txt i see lines both for libGL.so and libOpenGL.so if that helps eugenefil: OPENGL_gl_LIBRARY:FILEPATH=/usr/lib/libGL.so eugenefil: OPENGL_opengl_LIBRARY:FILEPATH=/usr/lib/libOpenGL.so eugenefil: but libOpenGL.so is not in ldd output sfan5: that's not a problem sfan5: this is a shot in the dark but please try reconfiguring and recompiling irrlicht with -DOPENGL_GL_PREFERENCE=LEGACY Krock: ^ that should be default I think sfan5: I put it in Irrlicht's cmake file too but I think the command might be incorrect sfan5: because it doesn't show in my CMakeCache.txt eugenefil: in my it shows OPENGL_GL_PREFERENCE:STRING=LEGACY Krock: had another issue with GLVND a while back, different rig. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7655#issuecomment-414150525 Krock: .. but there Irrlicht failed to initialize, and that's after the Xorg stuff IIRC Krock: eugenefil: does glxgears work? eugenefil: yes Krock: hmm eugenefil: sfan5: should I rebuild then if OPENGL_GL_PREFERENCE:STRING=LEGACY already in my CMakeCache.txt? sfan5: you're looking at irrlicht's CMakeCache.txt right? eugenefil: oh, please sorry eugenefil: was looking at minetest's sfan5: don't worry it's easy to get it mixed up eugenefil: started build eugenefil: -- Found OpenGL: /usr/lib/libOpenGL.so eugenefil: sfan5: rebuilt, but no luck, getting same error :( sfan5: aw eugenefil: btw, is 'make clean && rm CMakeCache.txt' enough to clean up before reconfiguring and recompiling? sfan5: yes eugenefil: ok sfan5: there must be something wrong with how irrlicht 1.9 creates the glx context eugenefil: maybe i should try to build say 5.4, maybe it's smth wrong w/ my setup eugenefil: started building 5.4.0, see if it'll throw the same error sfan5: hm sfan5: could you pastebin the full glxinfo somewhere? eugenefil: nope, just built 5.4.0, runs just fine eugenefil: ok eugenefil: here it is https://pastebin.com/tUNSHk57 sfan5: thanks sfan5: unfortunately you have the same GLX version as me so this doesn't really help me understand the bug eugenefil: got it, anything else i can try? sfan5: if you run minetest master with --trace, does it output anything that looks interesting? eugenefil: no, nothing special eugenefil: irrlich seems to start fine eugenefil: 2021-03-11 23:45:28: INFO[Main]: Irrlicht: Irrlicht Engine version 1.9.0mt0 eugenefil: 2021-03-11 23:45:28: INFO[Main]: Irrlicht: Linux 5.11.2-arch1-1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:26:41 +0000 x86_64 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome eugenefil: and after that goes the error eugenefil: libGL error: failed to create drawable sfan5: :/ eugenefil: yeah sfan5: one more idea: revert c4503eaf17664bdf501ee96ba86d3a24636b83bc inside irrlicht, rebuild and see if it fails with a different error sfan5: it won't make it work but it'll give me something I can look for eugenefil: ok, i'll do that eugenefil: also i found there is a minetest-git package for my distro (arch linux) maintained by y5nw that builds from master but somewhat differently, trying that at the moment eugenefil: sfan5: btw, should i rebuild w/ -DOPENGL_GL_PREFERENCE=LEGACY? sfan5: makes no difference eugenefil: ok VanessaE: is there no way to change the border color of a textarea[] element? VanessaE: cheapie just discovered a bug where using style_type[] to turn the border off causes the scroll bar (if visible) to stop working altogether cheapie: I'm on 75eb28b95 if that matters. eugenefil: sfan5: so I reverted and rebuilt and got another error eugenefil: X Error of failed request: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) eugenefil: Major opcode of failed request: 18 (X_ChangeProperty) sfan5: that's good eugenefil: really? :))) eugenefil: great news sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/renderingengine.cpp#L227 sfan5: add "return false" here, recompile and the game will run sfan5: "return false;" actually eugenefil: sounds like magic, ok eugenefil: should I keep that commit reverted in irrlicht? sfan5: for now yes eugenefil: ok [Pokey]: Just a general modding question, is it normal to provide two versions of a mod if the mod requires platform specific libraries? sfan5: if that's necessary, sure [Pokey]: Ah okay, thanks eugenefil: yep, the game really ran eugenefil: so what was the culprit? sfan5: that change in irrlicht even though it apparently works fine for everyone else violated some assumption eugenefil: is the problem more w/ irrlicht fork then or w/ my setup? sfan5: former eugenefil: got it, will there follow some github issue/fix? sfan5: if I figure out why it's broken, sure eugenefil: ok, i'm just curios eugenefil: so i keep those changes for now eugenefil: anyway, sfan5, thank you for you work and time VanessaE: there, patches submitted for 3d_armor, skinsdb, and unified_inventory_plus to make them work with UI v2. DivideByZero: Have instrcutions on how to load texture packs changed for server 5.4.0 ? VanessaE: no idea there DivideByZero: I used to put them in /textures/server/ mw__: HI all Extexo: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/447819853848510485/819060191337250816/download_20210309_201136.png Extexo: 😎 Extexo: Would like some feedback Extexo: And yes ik I made him too big xD smugler5[m]: hello morea: I am in IRC 👍 Extexo: Are you the smuggler morea? Extexo: If so, congratulations on getting an irc smugler5[m]: thanks DivideByZero: Is there a more current directions for setting up textures on a dedicated server than these from 2014? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=10688 DivideByZero: placing them in /textures or /textures/server doesn't seem to be working. IhrFussel: The name of the texture pack has to be 'server' IhrFussel: You cannot put it inside a folder called server IhrFussel: I mean the name of the folder that contains the textures has to be 'server' and you put it inside 'textures' DivideByZero: IHR: That's not what this says: and I've tried both ways and both failed. DivideByZero: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=10688 Danil_2461: wha- Danil_2461: lmao you pinged me in discord morea: lol y5nw: I think IhrFussel means that you need to put the texture files into .minetest/textures/server Warr1024: The discord IRC bridge has an apparent issue where it detects something as a ping if your discord nickname is at the beginning of a line, but doesn't check for end-of-word. Warr1024: All discord users are advised not to use one letter names unless they want to catch pings on average 1 in 26 times someone says anything on IRC DivideByZero: so /minetest.textures/server (with the texture_packs_here.txt file) does not load textures, but /.minetest/textures/server does load them. [I'm not sure why the file says to put textures there if it can't load them from there] DivideByZero: I'm going to rewrite that since there is a typo.. DivideByZero: so /minetest/textures/server (with the texture_packs_here.txt file) does not load textures, but /.minetest/textures/server does load them. [I'm not sure why the file says to put textures there if it can't load them from there] Hawk777: Hm, the forum post said “~.minetest/textures/server”, I guess that was a typo for “~/.minetest/textures/server”, so needing the dot makes sense. Hawk777: Also since that’s where all other Minetest content goes, like the worlds and config files and such. TechDude: Hey guys TechDude: i have a modding question TechDude: I want to use the minetest.register_on_joinplayer and minetest.register_on_respawnplayer TechDude: but i need to get the player names TechDude: the names aren’t passed to the function so how can I get them? appguru: do player:get_player_name() hlqkj: register_on_joinplayer gives you an objectref as first argument, you can call :get_player_name() on that hlqkj: oops sorry appguru TechDude: Ah thx hlqkj: same on the other callback :) VanessaE: Finally got Dreambuilder's theme handling cleaned up and working 100% again VanessaE: new code's on git, but no new stable release yet. that can wait until I finish. DS-minetest: Does someone know a tool that is not an IDE and allows you to find the places in a c++ project where a given function is called (like grep, but more clever)? calcul0n_: DS-minetest, doxygen maybe? calcul0n_: it's not done for that but that's one of its features DS-minetest: ah right, will try, thx! Hawk777: If your code is on Github, Github’s online browser already does that (to some level of effectiveness for some languages). Hawk777: Not sure if it works for C++. Hawk777: Clicking on a function name by default shows its definition and lets you jump there, but there’s a second tab for references. rubenwardy: DS-minetest: ctags rubenwardy: I think DS-minetest: ctags just generates a file with the locations of the definitions, desn't it? Hawk777: I think either ctags or cscope (not sure which) can find references as well. DS-minetest: ah, cscope looks good, thx! DS-minetest: O_o doxygen created 35432 files for minetest in one folder tech_exorcist: ??? DS-minetest: !!! DS-minetest: pcmanfm seems to be pretty bad at handling fat folders DS-minetest: with fat I mean big, not the fat fs calcul0n_: huhu, by "not done for that" i meant it's an horrible thing which will produce tons of useless crap in this particular use case :) calcul0n_: cscope seems to be a better choice in fact DS-minetest: "this particular use case" was just running make doc for minetest calcul0n_: wow DS-minetest: ok, cscope is pretty nice. however it seems like it sadly can't work with c++ functions DS-minetest: and my main problem with grep is that in minetest there are functions named the same, but for different classes, eg. serialize DivideByZero: I get this in my server log '[Server]: RESTART REQUEST (max uptime)', and then the server shutsdown, anyone know what causes this? Warr1024: DividebyZero: Oh, are you using szutil_restart? That looks like one of the messages from that mod. Warr1024: It assumes you're going to want a regular restart at least some time, though you can theoretically set the max uptime very high if you're mostly just using it for manual restarts. DivideByZero: Where is the setting for this? Warr1024: Should be something like szutil_restart_maxuptime DivideByZero: oh yeah its from that mod pack. Thanks for the tip. NoNameDude: hi * VanessaE: waves some fresh coffee under Krock_'s nose ;) DivideByZero: Good morning. VanessaE: hi TableToo: k TableToo: hi * VanessaE: looks at Krock_ and hovers her mouse over the "Squash and merge" button :) (actually, I do want to squash the PR down *some*, just to smooth-off minor changes, lint, etc) VanessaE: Krock, you're killin' me. :P Krock: VanessaE: are you hyped? VanessaE: nope Krock: your actions tell otherwise VanessaE: just impatient :) Krock: yeah Extexo: What are you two working on VanessaE and Krock ? xD VanessaE: Extexo: I made a pull request to Unified Inventory to write some it to use more modern formspec features and to improve its appearance. Krock has been goading me to basically improve the overall code :) VanessaE: I think it's done, I'm just waiting for the green light to merge it :) Extexo: Oooh ok DivideByZero: Vanessa: I'm trying to read the code from the contentDB screen of your LED Marquee, but it's too small even blurry when I zoom in. Can I read this in text form somewhere? DivideByZero: I want to make a LED that says SPAWN! DivideByZero: digiline_send["Text", DivideByZero: string.char(0] * VanessaE: hides VanessaE: Krock: spacing and translations fixed. Krock: interesting indenting style VanessaE: guesswork there. VanessaE: considering how far in I needed to indent VanessaE: I usually do that sort of thing when I have to continue a string or function across two or more lines. VanessaE: easier to read. Krock: sometimes it's then easier to keep the first line empty so that the entire "block" can be treated the same VanessaE: yeah, thought about that too Krock: whatever VanessaE: I often do that with tables VanessaE: (as in the btnlist one I fixed the translations on) VanessaE: note: I use a 4-space-long tab, like in MT VanessaE: but, I'm generally happy with the code :) DivideByZero: Vanessa: Is there an example of the LED Marquee code somewhere to read? Krock: VanessaE: 1. is "unified inventory single slot 256px with trash.xcf" still needed? DivideByZero: The code I put into the luacontroller, not the source code. Krock: 2. what would you think about an unified_inventory.version = 2 variable to help API compat in the future, or so that this new style can be detected? DS-minetest: DivideByZero: that's not valid lua VanessaE: the xcf isn't "needed", per se. just figured it should be published. Krock: simple variable, but would need a documentation line VanessaE: a version number might be a good idea yeah Krock: makes sense yes Krock: am I right assuming the textures are optipng'd? DivideByZero: This is what I tried: DivideByZero: digiline_send["Text", DivideByZero: string.char(0).."S" DivideByZero: string.char(1).."P" DivideByZero: string.char(2).."A" DivideByZero: string.char(3).."W" DivideByZero: string.char(4).."N" DivideByZero: ] Krock: DivideByZero: seriously please use a paste service DivideByZero: For something that short? Krock: the message was delayed automatically. wanted to give an input before it grows any further Krock: which it.. didn't- DivideByZero: I'm trying to use the LED Marquee to make a sing that says "SPAWN". I can't find directions to read. DS-minetest: DivideByZero: functions are called with round parentheses (); lookup what string.char does; ... DivideByZero: sign = sign DivideByZero: sing = sign DS-minetest: !reference DivideByZero DS-minetest: !pil DivideByZero MinetestBot: DivideByZero, someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please read https://www.lua.org/pil/contents.html or https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/ Krock: DivideByZero: someone thinks that you should read the reference manual. https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html Krock: damn it VanessaE: Krock: no, they're not, but since I only added three and they're tiny, I didn't think about it :) but I'll opti and crush them. DS-minetest: \o/ Krock: | DivideByZero: I have to learn the entire LUA language just to use the LED Marquee sign? Krock: / \ bad alirgnment gang DivideByZero: A simple example would get me by. DS-minetest: lua is very easy, it can be learnt in very few minutes Krock: well, you could try the commands in command line to ensure they're doing what you want DS-minetest: try something like digiline_send("the channel", "A") DivideByZero: ok DivideByZero: that worked, I see an A now. thank you. :D VanessaE: Krock: ok, images crushed+opti'd VanessaE: and xcf deleted VanessaE: (only optimized the ones that I worked on, of course) DivideByZero: Now it says "SPAWN!" DivideByZero: :) DivideByZero: It doesn't scroll, but I guess that's fine. DivideByZero: I'll look at the lua guide and see if I can make it do some more stuff. VanessaE: you just have to turn on autoscroll and set a speed DivideByZero: Is that done in the lua controller or a config file? Krock: VanessaE: https://pastebin.com/raw/q3Ce2BvL VanessaE: DivideByZero: in the lua controller code. DivideByZero: ok VanessaE: Krock: oh right, forgot to add the description for the version DivideByZero: If you have a document on your LED Marquee I'd be glad to have it and read through it. Thanks. VanessaE: Krock: https://imgur.com/E3pMgOX.png look right? Krock: yes sure Krock: feel free to add your own thoughts VanessaE: nah, I'm good. Krock: I just kept it to a bare minimum VanessaE: Krock: since that last image update took off another ~188kB or so, maybe we should just squash the whole PR down into one commit before merging VanessaE: (otherwise doing so is a little pointless because of the size of the git history :) ) Krock: the topics are kinda mixed now and grouping those might really take more time than what's worth VanessaE: hm yeah Krock: go ahead squash rebase push VanessaE: nah, I"ll leave the history intact VanessaE: last chance to say "OH SHIT, WAIT!" :) Krock: well, I don't feel responsible fixing the mods VanessaE: no worries, I'll do that. Krock: u_i in itself seems to function well, and looks good Krock: likely that another translation string went missing somewhere but that would be noticed sooner or later anyway DivideByZero: How to ask the lua controller to sleep(1) ? os.execute doesn't seem to be allowed. sfan5: you can't do blocking sleeping Krock: interval counting DivideByZero: os.execute("sleep " .. tonumber(n)) DivideByZero: I tried that. DS-minetest: user interrupts Krock: DivideByZero: the entire Lua environment is handled in a single thread. what do you think would happen if you'd use sleep? VanessaE: Krock: yeah, easy to fix later if one shows up. DS-minetest: Krock: my samer can do sleeps Krock: DivideByZero: correct! You'd block basically the entire server DivideByZero: I thought my script would sleep for 1s, but by your concern the whole game would sleep for 1s? Krock: DS-minetest: but in a separate env or by special interval-based triggers sfan5: yes DS-minetest: Krock: with coroutines, it yields the croutine and continues it after some time via globalsteps DS-minetest: (doesn't work over server-restarts though) Krock: ah yes, that's a nice trick VanessaE: there it is, Krock. merged to master VanessaE: should I tag it? Krock: VanessaE: perhaps? I never do tags in general VanessaE: tagged as "version-2" Krock: pretty cool. a 16% increase in commits VanessaE: heh Krock: VanessaE: we forgot the README Krock: 5.4.0+ VanessaE: oh, I'll fix that Krock: thx VanessaE: also slid the "version-2" tag up to that commit VanessaE: (figured it'd only been a minute. :) ) DS-minetest: wow, that giant spike https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory/graphs/contributors VanessaE: :D VanessaE: Krock: I'm gonna tag "version-1" at d1a4396f, the last commit before the PR was merged. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: CI: update configurations for Irrlicht fork 1375eb28b https://git.io/JqmCC (152021-03-09T20:53:17Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Switch Irrlicht dependency to our own fork 1391c9313 https://git.io/JqmCW (152021-03-09T20:53:17Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Restore Irrlicht 1.9 support 133579dd2 https://git.io/JqmC8 (152021-03-09T20:53:17Z) zceejkr: Hello. I have just started running a minetest server, and I have some issues with lag. A lot of times, when I place a torch, nothing happens. If I die, the server logs start spamming: Server: name moved too fast: ... resetting position. zceejkr: Any ideas what the problem could be? zceejkr: Also, dooers cand chets often make a sound when I open them, but no effect happens. zceejkr: Doors* zceejkr: I am running the game mineclone2 if that changes anything. zceejkr: Kinda feels like the server and the client are out of sync zceejkr: When I right click the door, I see no server event loged. zceejkr: I just build a bridge over a large cliff, and was standing on it. The I reconnected, and I fell down, dying... There was no bridge there :D y5nw: I wonder if that's caused by the internet connection zceejkr: Might be... I played with 2 friends and they reported no such issues... So it's UDP packets getting lost, would that be a good guess? Also, what can I do about this? Mostly just getting a better connection? y5nw: I would suggest that zceejkr: Also, where can I find a list of item strings? y5nw: minetest.registered_items y5nw: The item string is used as the key (index) y5nw: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/minetest-namespace-reference/#registered-definition-tables zceejkr: thanks. Also, is there an option to set render distance in minetest? rubenwardy: +/- keys zceejkr: ty * VanessaE: wanders back in * VanessaE: shakes Krock vigorously VanessaE: everything's done -- your remarks are resolved as far as I can see. I think it's ready to merge but it needs a second look VanessaE: I'm impatient because this PR is holding-up some other work I need to finish :P VanessaE: so.... normal vs 9-sliced (right) slot image: https://imgur.com/mfPglyY.png think it's worth the extra complexity to render all of UI's inventory slots this way? (seen here is the refill slot, using the same image for both since it happens to already be suitable for 9-slicing) VanessaE: not sure why the 9-sliced output is a couple pixels bigger (and it's slightly offset too, but that's easy to fix if I were to commit to it) VanessaE: (probably just precision errors in irrlicht) sfan5: certainly looks nicer VanessaE: indeed VanessaE: at the size displayed by MT (i.e. without zooming a screenshot), I can easily see the diff VanessaE: as Krock pointed out, it would add around 45 chars per image slot to the formspec (or about 44*45 bytes total if I did it for the whole main crafting page) VanessaE: writing a helper function that'll let me ask for an arbitrary tiled final "image" would be trivial Warr1024: how does it look under different hud/gui scaling values? VanessaE: idk VanessaE: I only know how it looks on my screen, and my gui scaling is unset VanessaE: though it would seem to be scaled to about 1.5x the original image since the image is 64x64 but is displayed at 86x86ish VanessaE: (well, 1.3x ish) VanessaE: sfan5: 9-sliced all the inv slots... https://imgur.com/JbJfXj1.png (black squares are obsidian glass, for alignment checking) VanessaE: (er obsidian glass x-pane) sfan5: looks great VanessaE: all of that generated from a single 64x64 px image :) VanessaE: (well and one more for the trash icon) VanessaE: the whole formspec is probably around 2kB of text VanessaE: well, the inv slots are anyway, not sure how much the item grid on the right consumes) y5nw: VanessaE: 2KB sounds like what I'm moving toward with the advtrains driver HUD :\ VanessaE: the form opens instantly so at least the quantity of formspec text has no impact on client behavior VanessaE: well there's maybe a half-second delay but that's from the item grid, not the new inv grid code mckayshirou: Hey ar10ch: I was thinking about some kinda bi-directional "forcefield" and I guessed the easiest way to allow a player to walk thru it one way but not the other would be privileges.. but it seems.. a little rough.. Soy_educado: anything is possible, but the efficiency would be small y5nw: You might want to patch commands that involve teleport (/home, /teleport, /tp*) ar10ch: Ah that's very true, I shoulda thought of that! Thanks :) y5nw: I think we might need teleport hooks (on_teleport (etc)) since such commands can also be possibly modified by other mods (e.g. jail) ar10ch: I think (think!) in this use case - say a forcefield was 6 wide, 3 high and 2 thick, (ish) then a central node in the ff could get pos and set pos +2 in the facedir? maybe crude but off the top of my head.. ar10ch: or +3 actually else ud b stuck in the ff lol ar10ch: of "Jail" - does it have a tool to send players to a locked-facility? like a handcuff-shaped "magic wand"? Jordach: with 5.4.0 VanessaE have you considered the option of uhhhhhhh, using model[] Jordach: and just make a 3D model that does exactly that VanessaE: Jordach: does what? Jordach: have your exact inventory layout Jordach: and since it's a rendered camera view, it's technically immune to any sort of scaling VanessaE: ehhh. no Jordach: trust me on this VanessaE: no, just no VanessaE: too complicated. Jordach: i've been working on a VGUI like scenario Jordach: all 3D model, no formspec Soy_educado: Undersampling works on screen esolution base or it a predefined scaling? ar10ch: ah - wrt "jail" it does not. Good - I'll carry on then :) ar10ch: I already have a "Naughty Corner" that I can manually teleport baddies to. In fact the castle in my first world had a "Griefer Hotel". But for other players to be able to send the troublesome folks to some kind of internment without giving the a privilege like "bring" that can be abused, a tool seems like a good way to go. A policemans baton, perhaps? [Pokey]: irc Pokey: oh yes discord, nice Pokey: ignore me VanessaE: not so nice. can't tab-complete peoples nicks from IRC :P y5nw: Copy-paste 😛 VanessaE: that requires taking my hands off the keyboard 😛 y5nw: gives VanessaE a mouse VanessaE: I have a mouse you twerp :P Jonathon: its such novel technology :p y5nw: Great. Saves the money I spend on mailing people things Jonathon: would seem a irc client could be made to tab through messages, then copy paste. delete y5nw: (Seriously though I should get an IRC client) Jonathon: i do, no bouncer so its hardly ever online 🙃 yw05: Test y5nw: Ok, works DivideByZero: ERROR[Main]: Error writing to configuration file: "../worlds/world/world.mt" DivideByZero: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Failed to initialize world: Faile to update the config file DivideByZero: I set my permissions to the unpriviledge user I created for the server 'chown -R minetest:minetest worlds' and to the conf file. y5nw: Are you actually running minetestserver using the minetest user? DivideByZero: yes DivideByZero: minetest is a user I created specifically for it. y5nw: And does the user have write permission to the files? DivideByZero: yes read and write. I'll check one more time to be sure. DivideByZero: -rw-r--r-- y5nw: Afaik you also need to set the execute flag on directories DivideByZero: directories need execute, not just executables? That I did not know. DivideByZero: so something like 'sudo chmod +x ' ? y5nw: From what I read, yes y5nw: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/21251/execute-vs-read-bit-how-do-directory-permissions-in-linux-work DivideByZero: Oh, thanks for the link, I'll read that first too. DivideByZero: one dir needed permission +x but the rest had it. Tried it again, but same error message. DivideByZero: Oh, I know why... I'm logged in as the wrong user executing it, i think... DivideByZero: Nope it was a type. i needed another ../ in the path. ../../world/worlds DivideByZero: typo DivideByZero: Ok I have it running now. :D Going to login and see if it's working. DivideByZero: it's working, but I forgot to install the texture pack I had previously. Now I can tinker with it again at least. Then I need to make it work with systemctl next. VanessaE: there, I think I'm finally done fixing-up unified inventory ar10ch: I'm still trying to get the hang of "get_objects_inside_radius" VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory on the `formspec_v4` branch in case anyone wants to look at the result ar10ch: i generall revert to a player detector and a command block to to this but i'm hoping it wont be a big deal to use "get_objects_inside_radius" to spawn an entity at y-1. But the way I do it I can get it to happen once, but not on the visit of each new player Extexo: What is the purpose of user aligned texture and what does it do? DivideByZero: I'll check it out when I'm done setting up my server Vanessa. VanessaE: DivideByZero: don't put it on a server yet. it needs more testing first, just for paranoia sake :) VanessaE: note: skinsdb and unified_inventorr_plus will not work properly with this new code. they'll require adaptation (I don't foresee that being difficult) VanessaE: (plus does run fine, its icons/buttons are just positioned wrong) Extexo: Ohh nvm I found what it does, not what I expected... Oof y5nw: ar10ch: I do not understand what you mean with using get_objects_inside radius to spawn entities ar10ch: y5inw: like a player detector (like i say - it would be preferable not to use the player detector/command block combo if i can) ar10ch: *sorry y5nw !! y5nw: I think it might be the way you implement player/object detection that is wrong. If you simply check if the state of having an object in a radius changes from "none" to "some" then consider the fact that spawning entities also cause the entities to be detected by get_objects_inside_radius ar10ch: ok.. with "while" ? sorry I'm just getting the hang of the api so i'm a little guess-y about this stuff :) y5nw: I wonder how your current code is like ar10ch: hold on y5nw: (No, don't use while without any particular reason. It blocks) DivideByZero: Vanessa I'm still getting an error with 'basic_signs' even on the new server 5.4.0: initlua12: attempt to call field 'register_sign' (a nil value) VanessaE: sounds like you just need to update signs_lib DivideByZero: I just did, fresh from github. DivideByZero: I wrote a bash script to install, and keep my mods up to date whenever I run it. VanessaE: impossible. DivideByZero: I did. I promise. VanessaE: maybe you didn't put the update into actual use DivideByZero: I even just checked the files dates and they are infact from today a few minutes ago. DivideByZero: I didn't have it before. I got them all fresh today. VanessaE: something has to be wrong, but what is initlua12? DivideByZero: It wouldn't detect any of my old folders so I just scrapped them all and got stuff fresh. VanessaE: no mod of mine uses a file by that name. DivideByZero: i think it means your init.lua file on line 12 DivideByZero: Let me go find your code on github. VanessaE: my code is not on github. VanessaE: it's on gitlab. DivideByZero: oh ar10ch: cant use pastebin VanessaE: but, MT won't display an error that way -- it's not going to alter the reported filename. DivideByZero: I can't login in there, it won't send the email confirmation. (Apparently a known bug there according to all the forum posts about it) VanessaE: you don't need to log in VanessaE: the repo is public DivideByZero: you have the link handy? if not ill search it. VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/signs_lib.git DivideByZero: could it be this line 11: signs_lib.gettext = S DivideByZero: since I didn't install the GettextLib VanessaE: no DivideByZero: it says 12 but 12 is an empty line ar10ch: whatever, I'm not having a good day VanessaE: ok, if it's reporting like that, it's broken VanessaE: it will not report an empty line, ever. DivideByZero: I'm not sure init.lua:12 even is line 12, that was just my hunch y5nw: It is, but are you sure it's from signs_lib? Krock: VanessaE: did you check skinsdb and 3d_armor compatibility? VanessaE: if it's really saying init.lua line 12 then it's using a different signs_lib than you think it is :) DivideByZero: The error is severe enough to shutdown the server. Krock: they're visually broken now VanessaE: Krock: I will submit patches for them DivideByZero: I'll go read the file in the directory VanessaE: I know skinsdb will need it, ui_plus too DivideByZero: looks way different of a file. DivideByZero: its a long file not short like yours. DivideByZero: let me find the link my script downloaded it from DivideByZero: I see why... I downloaded TenPlus1's version of it. Krock: VanessaE: looks good overall, but spacing seems to be suboptimal: https://i.postimg.cc/fTHSbHkc/grafik.png DivideByZero: I'll get yours instead. DivideByZero: I bet it works then. :) Krock: VanessaE: minor, but the text in lite mode seems to be too high. https://i.postimg.cc/MH3BgtQm/grafik.png Krock: also the "bags" button is missing in lite mode (implemented yet?) Krock: comparison, previously the crafting grid was more centred and used the entire available space: https://i.postimg.cc/ht1mBSTG/grafik.png VanessaE: oh you mean the header? VanessaE: that's intentional. VanessaE: because the slots are taller I had to move things up and down some VanessaE: and if I move the header down it'll conflict with the craft result string in the cruaft guide. VanessaE: -u Krock: oh sorry I was talking about the craft guide, not grid. Krock: the grid uses its space just fine VanessaE: I can move the craft guide over more, but I wonder if some of those translations are maybe...excessive? Surely there's a shorter way to say "To craft grid" :) Krock: at least in german there's none that would express the same meaning VanessaE: (note: those "to craft grid" buttons don't work for me, never have. someone else can fix those after the v4 rewrite goes in) Krock: works just fine for me VanessaE: why not just "zu gittern"? VanessaE: (literally, "to grate') VanessaE: "* DivideByZero: signs are working now Vanessa. :D VanessaE: DivideByZero: toldjyaso. :) DivideByZero: :) Krock: err what the hell. this copy thing worked before VanessaE: Krock: they work for you? huh. VanessaE: the give buttons work, but I never could figure out why the to grid buttons don't. DivideByZero: Now I'm trying to figure out why my texture pack isn't working though. I tried it in the /textures folder and in /textures/server neither seem to work. Any suggestions? VanessaE: Krock: what copy thing? Krock: the topic Krock: there was no topic change DivideByZero: Are signs harder to read now, or is it just my eyes? VanessaE: but anyway if you really want me to move the guide more to the right I can. I put it where it is so that it lines up with the crafting guide when you flip between pages. DivideByZero: seems like a smaller font that breaks up at a short distance. VanessaE: er so that it lines up with the grid VanessaE: also you need to update. 9-slicing all over the place for razor sharp images :) VanessaE: DivideByZero: well the font changed, by necessity, so that they can support proper i18n but I can read a small-text normal sign from about 6 or 7 m VanessaE: which is about the range they had before. Krock: I can copy the steel chestplate recipe, but not the gold chestplate recipe to crafting gri VanessaE: use the wide font or a larger sign if you can Krock: very strange VanessaE: Krock: huh. well let's deal with that later :) Krock: same behaviour in master VanessaE: ok good, I didn't break it ;) DivideByZero: I prefered the older font, was easier to read and further distance, but I guess it's not good for that i18n (what is that?) VanessaE: Krock: so, increase the spacing left and right of the crafting guide then? or just trim the translations? Krock: can someone please tell my brain to not close and rebuild Minetest every time I want to change a mod revision thanks Krock: ffs VanessaE: DivideByZero: foreign language support ("i" 18 chars "n", i.e. "internationalization") VanessaE: Krock: lol VanessaE: DivideByZero: but that aside perhaps you should ping the guy who made that code happen. check the git log, open an issue, tag him Krock: small UI, big fonts before/after. https://i.postimg.cc/23Rf2N5p/grafik.png VanessaE: you aren't the first to say the font seems to be harder to read, but the first such report turned out to be an engine issue (mipmap distortion) VanessaE: Krock: so the only thing that really changed was the word above/below the arrow VanessaE: I moved it up intentionally, thought it looked better :-/ VanessaE: I'll move it back down Krock: it does look well integrated in full screen mode Krock: but just there.. Krock: VanessaE: it might be possible to remove the left item image button, or does it have any purpose? VanessaE: it can be removed VanessaE: I don't know why it's even there Krock: perhaps that gives some more freedom in terms of space VanessaE: but since it was already, I kept it. VanessaE: well in your big-font-small-window images, removing it would add two lines of space VanessaE: maybe 3 VanessaE: https://imgur.com/oFAa4vf.png VanessaE: (the stuff by the arrow) Krock: yes, that should scale better Krock: I use "font_size = 18" and "hud_scaling = 0.8" @900x600 to test most GUIs that way, so that it'll definitely look good using weird screens resolutions or people with impaired sight VanessaE: what' VanessaE: ldk,fejkl;vdklsjhgbljk;sfhjkl;g VanessaE: what's next? Krock: huh? Krock: make it turing complete VanessaE: what's the next thing to update in UI VanessaE: HAH! Krock: nah, jk. I think moving the grid +0.5,+0.25 would help a bit VanessaE: ok. Krock: but that's really minorities Krock: might not look as pretty if you'd use 4x4 or 5x5 grids in special cases Krock: *in very special cases VanessaE: actually VanessaE: that does work fine VanessaE: tested with nekogloop's old toolsizes mod VanessaE: up to 5x5 fits fine Krock: hmm... even if you move the 3x3 grid position a bit? VanessaE: it autoscales. Krock: niice DivideByZero: I'm getting errors about mods not following naming conventions and it shutsdown the server. The mods however do look to be using only alpha and _ VanessaE: Krock: you sure you want me to move the craft guide over? it'll trigger my OCD if I do :P DivideByZero: One of the mods I can remove I guess as it seems it comes with minetest now anyways 'buckets' DivideByZero: the photorealism texture pack gives that error too though, and I really like that pack. Krock: VanessaE: my OCD is triggered by the blank space between the grid and item selector VanessaE: heh DivideByZero: DO I need to report it to the author is it is something I've done wrong? Krock: :P VanessaE: but...but...but if I move it it won't line up with the inventory slots :) DivideByZero: Is it OCD or OCP Krock? Krock: LCD Krock: similar to LSD DivideByZero: You know the difference? Krock: no really I don't Krock: so it's basically the opposite of OCD DivideByZero: OCP = Obsessive Compulsive Personality (You have the traits but it doesn't cause major issues in your life); OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (Your obsessiveness causes problems in your daily living) Krock: maybe I'm just dissatisfied DivideByZero: haha :) DivideByZero: I like to keep things in specific order. Even on my computers, which sometimes can become burdensome. DivideByZero: Does anyone know what packet quota used up means? I see that a lot in the log. DivideByZero: client received too many packets and is not allowed more for a time? sfan5: usually no cause for concern Krock: it's a new warning in old code. nothing to worry about ar10ch: if it's still relevant (!lo.ol!) ha https://pastebin.com/wjfQdZ7i - I can't remember what the other thing I was doing was... Krock: ar10ch: locked paste ar10ch: oh.. what are they doing.. i'll check it now ar10ch: it says public ar10ch: password disabled Krock: Locked Paste Krock: Enter password MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translate builtin into German (server-side) (#11032) 13a21402b https://git.io/JqLtB (152021-03-08T19:27:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix misleading chat messages of /clearobjects (#10690) 13c48bbfd https://git.io/JqLtR (152021-03-08T19:27:32Z) ar10ch: krock: is that what it's saying to you? Krock: yes ar10ch: uh. it changed. i dont like it. hold on VanessaE: Krock: https://imgur.com/dyDFF7u.png Krock: <3 VanessaE: (still need to delete that extra icon on the left) VanessaE: or should I leave it? (and move it a little to the left) Krock: As you wish. I don't mind it. VanessaE: I'll get rid of it VanessaE: it's useless VanessaE: https://imgur.com/ZeMmMxs.png VanessaE: (lite mode, obv) VanessaE: https://imgur.com/l8kLEbE.png VanessaE: full mode VanessaE: (duh) Krock: nice, but where's waypoints and bags? VanessaE: they don't work in lite mode. VanessaE: never did Krock: oh that's sad VanessaE: well.. VanessaE: I could add them, I'm sure there's room VanessaE: but if you'll notice in my pic, the first main buttons row is full, so adding those to lite mode would leave only enough space for two more buttons VanessaE: (that's why I omitted those pages from lite mode when I first added it way back when) ar10ch: regardless of the question (now) would anyone mind checking if this is still locked? https://pastebin.com/wjfQdZ7i Thanks :) VanessaE: works for me, ar10ch VanessaE: Krock: two replies added to your remarks ar10ch: sweet - thankyou VanessaE :) VanessaE: yw ar10ch: Does anyone want a kitten? VanessaE: no thanks VanessaE: I have three cats already VanessaE: and they drive me insane :P ar10ch: My girl had 4 and i live in a small flat - they're drivin me nuts lol VanessaE: heh ar10ch: I'd keep them all if I could - the little "darlings" lol ar10ch: right then - if it's working..... ar10ch: what was my question..?? ar10ch: erm ar10ch: oh yeah - spawning an entity using get_objects_inside_radius ar10ch: if anyone has a mo to tell me where I'm goin wrong - regardless of the question .... https://pastebin.com/wjfQdZ7i DS-minetest: everywhere ar10ch: haha ar10ch: sounds right DS-minetest: it looks like what you would like to use is a node timer * VanessaE: pokes Krock -- stop playing Uno :P VanessaE: ar10ch: btw, "womp"? afraid to add "rats" ? ;) DS-minetest: and copy the node definiton and callbacks from api doc choose what you want DS-minetest: !api ar10ch MinetestBot: ar10ch, someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt ar10ch: haha VanessaE - it's the mario rock guy! lol VanessaE: that' VanessaE: that's a thwomp. VanessaE: I think? VanessaE: ?P VanessaE: :P ar10ch: Yeah maybe I should ar10ch: Nah it aint DS-minetest: it's stampfi ar10ch: Maybe I have... and more ar10ch: Hence my asking ar10ch: But nvm VanessaE: oh, we're both wrong, it's whomp, not womp :) ar10ch: maybe lol ar10ch: My modpack is about 8mb.. ive not been sitting on my hands here. I need to tidy up a lot of things before anything is release-able. I dont need the headache about licences. But My stuff does do stuff and I HAVE READ and almost memorised the API. Doesn't mean I understand it all tho .... :P y5nw: You should probably consider having a license. Otherwise others can't assume anything other than "all rights reserved" ar10ch: My personal licence would be "Do what you want and leave me alone." Jonathon: So something like mit? Jonathon: There is wftpl, but you really should not use it Jonathon: Nal tho ar10ch: Im helping my 10yo with a nice little mod atm. That'll prob b MIT y5nw: I personally use GPL or AGPL with only that specific version ar10ch: tbh Its a stage I havent quite reached yet. Like maintenance Jonathon: Gpl virus heh ar10ch: anyway 'll go look at the docs. DS-minetest: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses suggests to use Apache2.0 over MIT/X11 DS-minetest: I'd like to know whether that patent thing is something that one would really want to have * ar10ch: goes to look at "the docs" y5nw: For me the consideration is simple. If someone had a fork and licensed it under a different license, I might not have the right to use the code from that fork Warr1024: IIRC the Apache2 license has some weird indemnification thing in it, and that forced OpenBSD to hold back on Apache 1.3 until they could switch to nginx. Stick with MIT or ISC, or a BSD 2-clause if you must. Those are as close to a "do with it whatever and leave me alone" license as you'll likely get. Jordach: MIT is the license closes to: it just works take it or leave it Warr1024: MT modding doesn't lean heavily in favor of any particular permissive license so I'd go MIT, as part of the broader permissive culture. I like ISC personally but only npm and OpenBSD seem to really love it. Jordach: one is niche the other is everywhere DS-minetest: I'd like to have something where you can bundle the licensed software in any other software, as long as you cite the source, but if you are using a modified version of my software in your published software, you have to publish the changed version of my software under a free software DS-minetest: license* Jordach: cam you guess which? Jordach: agpl DS-minetest: is there some license where this holds? Jordach: AGPL3 Jonathon: I like the show your changes, but not the gpl virus part of agpl Warr1024: I publish my stuff under MIT because I want to ensure it's published at least once under a sufficiently free license. Jordach: it's better than the alternative Jonathon: Most people keep it open source of there forks if they go mainstream in mt anyways Jonathon: So mit is what i use Warr1024: MIT is viral psychologically/culturally, just not legally. Jordach: MIT fosters actual communual development Jordach: while GPL is source or die Warr1024: I understand wanting to create community, but I'd rather allow it to happen than mandate it. ar10ch: pander to those that have no idea what they want to achieve, and who's reach is well beyond there abilities and curtail the efforts of those with achievable and progressive aspirations... those that are gradually learning to do more. More than set up a server or focus on creating a minigame. I want to learn it all. And present the results for the world to see and enjoy. In the meantime, I guess I'll go and "Read the docs" ar10ch: again. DS-minetest: AGPL3's §13 sounds like you don't have to open-source the modified version of the software if you sell it. (if you didn't buy, you can't interact with it, and hence have no right to see the src, meh) Extexo: How would I style a scroll container? (Scrollbar included) DS-minetest: Extexo: what do u mean with "style"? VanessaE: you can't. Extexo: Oof VanessaE: the most you can do is turn off the background or border and then use an image DS-minetest: there's scrollbar_options if that's what u r looking for Extexo: So the scrollbar is stuck default? VanessaE: but the scrollbar can't be styled :( VanessaE: neither can dropdowns/comboboxes :( DS-minetest: you can style the scroll_container's scrollbar as much as other scrollbars VanessaE: er no? VanessaE: check the api VanessaE: there's nothing of substance. Extexo: Oof IhrFussel: @DivideByZero In case you are still there (can't check from discord): Mods may only contain lowercase letters not uppercase ones VanessaE: scrollbaroptions doesn't alter colors VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2585 IhrFussel: Also if your mod contains a "-master" remove that DS-minetest: yeah, as I said, as much as other scrollbars, which might be not much DS-minetest: the scrollbar for the scroll_container needs to be added manually, so you always also have a scrollbar element DS-minetest: btw Extexo: 😎 (was trying to beautify HUDs) Extexo: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/780505995323375637/818586912797229093/Screenshot_2021-03-08-12-50-37.png VanessaE: nice Extexo: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/780505995323375637/818587442261131294/Screenshot_2021-03-08-12-54-05.png VanessaE: when I get the "themeing engine" (if you can call it that) done for Dreambuilder, I hope you VanessaE: will make one based on that ^ VanessaE: :) Extexo: Still don't know how to remove the default button from behind my 9sliced one DS-minetest: uh, the scrollbar in the 2nd screenshot looks awful Extexo: But otherwise it's looking pretty good Extexo: Yeah because I can't style it Extexo: That's why I'm asking, lol ar10ch: !docs apparently Krock: Extexo: I wish there was more contrast but it looks very cool already Extexo: Kk I'll do some experimenting ar10ch: My "Vision" is this: Join. If you know what you're doing then skip the next few steps. Else.. If you need help (Igot sick of servers where weirdos ask for houses to be built for them - so i made a mod for that) you can move on to the college and learn more technical stuff, or u can skip that too. Go straight on to QUESTS. I've been working hard on devising these. In the meantime there's a bunch of sidegames, like the 2012 ar10ch: ufo got made into a podracer course, the nautilus mod (in a suitable environment) has projectiles for "battleships" and when I get time I want skyblocks as a "realm" - actually it doesn't need to be it just needs to be a bit up in the y - like 128 or summat. Anyone interested in helping to realise this dream - I'm here. Theres loadsa ppl cleverer than me that could do this in their sleep but this is my goal.. and I think its ar10ch: a good one.. I may have missed bits out ar10ch: I did miss a step - if u need help: start at the academy ar10ch: anyone can do what they want but the facilities are there ar10ch: I envision robot tutors ar10ch: My son (10yo) has made a bunch of blocks for a thing called "Parkour" - which is jumping around a bit I think ar10ch: Thats his mod tho - included in this server idea ar10ch: If anyone wishes to lend a hand - things may go a lot quicker and be a lot more fun :) ar10ch: I've done most of it - if I didn't mention that already ar10ch: like 99% Extexo: Krock: https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/074247275d4e8258/CollageMaker_202138132738154.jpg Extexo: Obviously the inventory would have to change to account for the background ar10ch: meh ar10ch: ah well. the worries of home-hosting would cause too much anxiety anyway - especially with a second admin ar10ch: i should have learned by now that me and collaboration never go hand-in-hand ar10ch: fuck it ar10ch: Gonna leave b4 I get really upset. ps. Docs have been read (again). Not a good day. VanessaE: ... ar10ch: I apologise for earlier when I suggested I would co-author a world and home-host it. I realise it's a big ask to expect someone to tie up those loose ends - it's a big ask of myself also to continue doing what i'm doing, research and implement security measures etc. It's a lot to look into. And tying up those loose ends must be tougth too.. Erm.. maybe.. ar10ch: It ain't gonna happen - don't worry ;) * VanessaE: pokes at Krock Jonathon: gives VanessaE a cattle prod VanessaE: I'm just trying to get him to give me the green light so I can merge that PR I've been working on, so I can move on to something else that I *don't* have to wait for someone else on :) Jonathon: seems like a cattle prod might be more useful Jonathon: :p VanessaE: :P ar10ch: nice to see that - how folks get on n chat n make things happen. (sigh) I'm too tired to try anymore Jonathon: if you want quests, look at the awards mod, or some of the quest apis people have created Jonathon: *to make MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Use place_param2 client-side for item appearance & prediction (#11024) 13bf8fb26 https://git.io/JqLgF (152021-03-08T23:56:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix missing jsoncpp in the Docker image 1313b50f5 https://git.io/JqL2J (152021-03-08T23:57:12Z) nisa_: hi julius: ji julius: hi VanessaE: ok, 9-slicing is my new favorite option, and I guess it ain't even all that new ;) Extexo: Yee 9 slicing is the way of the future VanessaE: https://i.imgur.com/oaRXygp.png (this is on top of the formspec v4 rewrite, see previously-mentioned pull req) Extexo: Is there a way to disable to default background so I can have transparency in the button Extexo: https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/953c1a605f44702c/Screenshot_2021-03-06-17-24-04.png cheapie: What exactly is the "WARNING[Main]: No craft recipe matches input" message supposed to mean? It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, but it's unhappy about /something/, and I have no idea at all what that message is trying to say or even what it's trying to say it about. Jordach: it's implying that theres no way to craft it i think cheapie: I'm sure you've all seen MS Paint before. How about MT Paint? https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210306_234329.png cheapie: Works, too, except the File and About menus aren't implemented yet. cheapie: Back side: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210306_233200.png Jordach: what on earth are those frozen looking cables cheapie: Those are from https://github.com/numberZero/digiline_routing cheapie: Yes, I know the textures suck, but... not my mod :P cheapie: The reason for the complex wiring arrangement is that I needed messages from the LuaC to go to the GPU, messages (image data) from the GPU to go to the display, and messages (touch events) to go from the display to the LuaC, but for messages from the GPU to *not* go to the LuaC, except on a specific channel designated for that purpose. DivideByZero: Does anyone know how to remove stuck breads on the screen leftover from a hunger mod that was removed? DivideByZero: Looking for a solution other than deleting my entire world and recreating it. DivideByZero: I'm not against hand editing files, if someone could point me in the right direction. DivideByZero: And if this information helps, the hunger mods I tried out were hunger_ng & hbhunger. Not sure which left the bread on my screen. Have tried reenabling both mods and disabling them, but the stuck breads never go away. DivideByZero: PS: enabled them separatly, never at the same time. DivideByZero: Here is a screenshot of the stuck bread: https://upload.picpaste.me/image/QcaBo IhrFussel: "Stuck" HUD elements even after removing the mod should not be possible by design...the engine reloads everything from scratch after you close your client/shutdown your server...my guess is that you have another hunger mod still somewhere DivideByZero: Thanks MTDiscord, I don't, but I'll check my mods list again just to be 100% certain. Possibly maybe some other mod gives hunger that I was unaware of though. I'll look into that also. Thanks for the information. DivideByZero: I'm also going to try full shutdown of the server, and see if that helps. Previously I just used 'systemctl restart..' DivideByZero: Fullshutdown didn't solve it, looking into other things now. Gerold55: Oh wow I was hoping something like this was possible Gerold55: But I was hoping they'd work with my laptop and printer mod lol tech_exorcist: is it just me, or there isn't the "Sand Stair" block? https://wiki.minetest.net/Stair seems to confirm that, but "This page was last modified on 6 March 2019, at 16:36." and I'm using Minetest 5.3.0 * tech_exorcist: downloads and builds the new version tech_exorcist: if I git pull the code, can I just run make to only rebuild the parts that were changed? MT takes ~20 minutes to be built on this computer VanessaE: damn it Krock, quit poking holes in my code, it's already practically swiss cheese ;) Krock: VanessaE: let's melt it to a fondue VanessaE: haha tech_exorcist: ? VanessaE: I think I've resolved all your remarks other than the things I said I'd do later VanessaE: tech_exorcist: referring to a pull request he and I are working on tech_exorcist: ok VanessaE: tech_exorcist: as for compiling, it's already been 10 mins, what's another 10? ;) as for "sand" stairs, that wouldn't make sense, since sand normally can't hold itself together to make such a thing, but there are sandstone stairs. VanessaE: same reason there aren't gravel stairs tech_exorcist: ok tech_exorcist: re compiling: I didn't start compiling :-) VanessaE: though now that you mention it... I should write a mod to add sand and gravel slopes and slabs, since those DO make sense, so long as they can only sit on the ground (i.e. no rotation onto walls or upside down) tech_exorcist: hmm, the game crashed when I tried to lay down in a bed tech_exorcist: wtf VanessaE: Krock: it seems there's an errant webhook on the unified_inventory repo that's creating contendb releases of more than just the master branch. can you fix it? I don't have sufficient access. Krock: I don't know how to correct that but I can remove the "pending approval" releases Krock: rubenwardy: !! VanessaE: the webhook will be on github. Krock: deactivated the webhook for now VanessaE: thanks :) VanessaE: Krock: you sure converting stuff over to string.format() is appropriate for this PR? I have nothing better to do anyway :) VanessaE: (also the `local ui = unified_inventory` thing is easy to do if it makes sense to do it now) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Set ENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP to TRUE by default 13dcb30a5 https://git.io/Jqklq (152021-03-07T13:26:09Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Predict failing placement of ignore nodes 13d9b78d6 https://git.io/JqklZ (152021-03-07T13:26:50Z) nisa_: ^ are these commits? sfan5: yes Phillip: is anyone playing online? IhrFussel: Check servers.minetest.net nisa_: Ah nice IhrFussel: If you mouseover the player count of each server you see the usernames IhrFussel: On mobile it works by holding it down and moving a few px I think IhrFussel: Or just tapping may work as well DivideByZero: Still unable to solve my stuck bread issue: https://upload.picpaste.me/image/QcaBo rubenwardy: VanessaE, Krock: https://github.com/minetest/contentdb/commit/9cb9f8a4f6b7f51eae05abf47dc04943fbc14e8c rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Hotfix: Prevent webhooks from running on non-master/main branches · minetest/contentdb@9cb9f8a · GitHub VanessaE: 👍 DivideByZero: Anyone have any insights to offer why brea icons might be leftover on the screen after removing a hunger mod? DivideByZero: bread DivideByZero: and by icons, I mean the HUD graphics for the hunger bar. rubenwardy: I can't reproduce the inability to delete releases locally, but I can by signing in as VanessaE in production rubenwardy: wait rubenwardy: it's because it's checking for owner status, not maintainer sfan5: DivideByZero: maybe the mod that manages the hudbars stores the old values sfan5: but that'd be very weird imo DivideByZero: sfan5: How could I check this? VanessaE: rubenwardy: yeah, I figured that was the case... but who should the author even *be* on UI? I mean, RBA passed away some years ago, and it's in minetest-mods now..... rubenwardy: unfortunately, you can't currently change authors without breaking installs VanessaE: oh. rubenwardy: breaking installs meaning that they won't ever update rubenwardy: author name is part of the primary key DivideByZero: sfan5: I have even tried disabling the hudbars mod and it's still there. It's not showing the bar from HUD bar though, it's showing the bread icons from the non-HUD bars implementation. sfan5: are you sure the hunger mod is gone then? DivideByZero: Perhaps upgrading the mods caused it to be stuck? Is that a possibility? sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sfan5: nothing is impossible DivideByZero: I set them to = false in the world.mt DivideByZero: then restarted the server, and also tried full shutdown and start again. DivideByZero: Also the bread icons aren't even appearing in the place they should be. they are showing over the health bar, with or without HUD_bars enabled. DivideByZero: and mis-aligned also. DivideByZero: as seen in the screenshot: https://upload.picpaste.me/image/QcaBo DivideByZero: When I reactivate a hunger mod, the normal bars or breads appear in the proper location, but the stuck breads stay where they are. sfan5: I can only suggest disabling mods one-by-one until it goes away here DivideByZero: Yikes. Warr1024: Mods are more often designed to be able to be added gracefully to an existing world than to be removed. Sometimes they leave behind some junk, in the map, or in metadata, that might need to be manually cleaned up. DivideByZero: Do any other mods besides hunger_ng & hbhunger give breads for hunger? Someone else suggested that earlier, but reading through all the mods, none seem obvious to do that. Warr1024: At least in the case of metadata it's often possible to clean stuff up via scripts... DivideByZero: Someone earlier told me opposite to that information, because that was my original plan and question... DivideByZero: "[02:57] "Stuck" HUD elements even after removing the mod should not be possible by design...the engine reloads everything from scratch after you close your client/shutdown your server...my guess is that you have another hunger mod still somewhere" Warr1024: It's also possible a mod may register itself with some helper/library mod so that that other mod persists its changes across restarts, even if the mod is absent, and mods might change the names they register under, and not necessarily provide a migration path either. Warr1024: It could be another hunger mod (e.g. maybe you had one in shared mods and another in world mods) or it could be a HUD library, or some multi-library that includes HUD stuff, somewhere. DivideByZero: Warrior: That sounds like it answers my question if upgrading a mod could have caused it to be stuck as so. Warr1024: The engine does not persist HUDs, only mods can do it. However, which mod is actually doing it is not enforced by the engine. DivideByZero: Do you have any suggestions for manual cleanup? What file to look for? Warr1024: my guess would be that HUDs would be stored in either mod or player metadata. DivideByZero: and where do I find those files? Warr1024: Player metadata is inside the player database, mod metadata is either in mod_storage inside the world, or in custom files somewhere in the world dir. DivideByZero: ok, I'll poke around and have a look. Thanks for the suggestions. Warr1024: Basically it's all in the world dir somewhere but hopefully you shouldn't have to pick apart map.sqlite or anything, and that should significantly reduce the number of total bytes you have to scan through, at least. Warr1024: Wherever you find it, it MAY be intertwined with other data you DO want to keep, so be careful. Warr1024: If you plan to try to make any modifications by hand to clean anything up, always remember to take a backup snapshot of your world first! DivideByZero: I don't see it in players.sqlite, I see hp and breath, but nothing about hunger there. DivideByZero: Neither 'satiation' Warr1024: player_metadata is the most likely table I'd look in, within the player database. DivideByZero: if that's not players.sqlite, which name is the file I'm looking for? DivideByZero: and no files in mod_storage seem hunger related either. Warr1024: you aren't necessarily looking for hunger either, could be anything HUD-related Warr1024: or anything mentioning bread, based on the texture... DivideByZero: Nothing HUD related in mod_storage files there are: advmarkers, awards, ban_hacker, draconis, goblins, moon_phases, rhotator, servercleaner, skinsdb Warr1024: If this doesn't pan out, then I guess you'd be back to bisecting your mods until you figure out which one you can enable/disable to affect the HUD, and then diving into that mod to understand how it's recreating that HUD each time. DivideByZero: and in the world folder is: areas.dat, auth.sqlite, bed_spawns, env_meta.txt, force_loaded.txt, hotbar_settings (nothing in there except size of hotbar), ipban.txt, luaentities, map_meta.txt, map.sqlite, mesecon_actionqueue, news.txt, players.sqlite, teleport_tubes, unified_inventory_home.home (leftover from unified inventory before I switched to sf_inv, but only a home pos is in there), world.mt, xban.db DivideByZero: I've checked all these files. DivideByZero: Unless there are files somewhere else I need to check, it's not in there. DivideByZero: Do files get placed in other folders? Using Linux. sfan5: here's a suggestion: create a new world, join and see if there's bread DivideByZero: no breads there. DivideByZero: I'm hoping to not have to delete my main world though. Stuff has been built, and other people of the public have played. sfan5: you certainly won't DivideByZero: I guess I'll do your suggestion and start disabling mods. DivideByZero: It will take me awhile, but I'll report back when I've finished. Thank you all for the suggestions. DivideByZero: I'll keep my eye open in here too in case anyone thinks of any other suggestions. DivideByZero: I have 326 mods installed, sounds like a lot, but before I tried upgrading they all worked together. DivideByZero: It would be a nice feature request if more mods could be built into the main game, then less stuff would need to be added second party. DivideByZero: A question before I start disabling mods: Can removing mods mess up my world? Are there important mods I should not disable? DivideByZero: Disabling fences removed all fences in my world. Will it come back? Or all fences need to be created afterwards? DivideByZero: removed *some* fences. sfan5: if you're concerned about that you should make a backup first anyway DivideByZero: OK, good call. sfan5: also no, nodes will turn into unknown nodes (do NOT try to interact with them) but will turn back when you enable the mod again DivideByZero: Good to know. Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge. Warr1024: Frankly, I'd always be worried that changing something would mess up my world... DivideByZero: Warrior: I didn't think the world was that fragile. I'll have to be more careful upgrading mods in the future. Warr1024: How fragile a world is depends very much on how fragile the mods are that you have enabled in the world, and that's not something we can provide any guarantees about. DivideByZero: Many mods seem to put their info in their own files (which I like much better) rather than appending to a world file. DivideByZero: Perhaps that should be a general requirement for mod makers. Warr1024: Mod authors should ensure it's safe to upgrade their mods, but I just can't promise that they all will. If you find one that isn't, though, IMO you should report it to the mod author as a bug. DivideByZero: I will do that certainly, once I am sure which mod caused the issue. Warr1024: It's not that upgrade safety isn't a general "requirement" already, it's just that it's not generally enforceable. DivideByZero: If it's on github, because I can't get my gitlab account to authorize, they are having some email confirmation issues. If it's on gitlab perhaps someone with a working account can report it if I provide them the info. DivideByZero: for the requirement I meant: making the mod put info in only its own files, not any world files from the base game. DivideByZero: I disabled all the mods, and breads are now gone from the screen. DivideByZero: Now I'll have to enable them one at a time and see if the breads come back or stay gone. DivideByZero: I may have to do this in the other direction (removing mods one at a time) to figure which mod was the culprit if the breads don't return. DivideByZero: Second thought, maybe I'll do it in that order in the first place, so I don't have to do this a second time. :D VanessaE: Krock: new commits for you to lose your mind over ;) Krock: oh no VanessaE: I swear, by the time I'm done I'll have rewritten 90% of this mod :) Krock: and that's for good Krock: certain places look so horrible VanessaE: well I hope the code is less horrible now. :) Krock: I actually have this on my ToDo but never found the motivation to actually begin with it Krock: also the open PRs would first need to be rejected/postponed in order to do it properly VanessaE: well as I've gone through it, the only truly egregious part, to my mind, is where the crafting guide is drawn, and in particular how the mod decides how big to make the buttons/grid (it supports 4x4 and 5x5 recipes and amazingly it still displays fine) Krock: it looks so much cleaner now <3 VanessaE: heheh VanessaE: RBA, may he rest in peace, was not one for clean code I suppose. For that matter, it wasn't exactly top of my list when I added the "lite" mode :) Krock: it did work tho VanessaE: yep VanessaE: incidentally, I think there are enough positional variables and general flexibility that I could make the bags and waypoints work in lite mode also. The only downside to that would be that there's only room for two rows of main buttons, and adding those two would leave only enough room for three more in the second row, or in Dreambuilder, just one more. Krock: rubenwardy: should "min_minetest_version" be used in mod.conf to assist contentdb or is it a no-go? rubenwardy: yes, it should be for reliability VanessaE: it already is. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Protect dropping from far node inventories 13176f586 https://git.io/Jqkg6 (152021-03-07T16:18:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Protect per-player detached inventory actions 13fc86402 https://git.io/Jqkgi (152021-03-07T16:18:02Z) Krock: thanks VanessaE: of course I could just shrink the buttons and make room for three rows, but that wouldn't coordinate well with the item buttons above them rubenwardy: documented here: https://content.minetest.net/help/package_config/ Krock: rubenwardy: good to know. I observed this a few times already but wasn't sure whether it's okay to add it VanessaE: ok here's one that'll bake your noodle.. would it be practical to 9-slice the single inventory slot image, and then tile the result to create a full 8x4 slot inv image? Krock: would at least be way more reliable than an image Krock: but the formspec data would become kinda long. perhaps 50 characters per inventory slot VanessaE: hm, there isn't a proper image9[] element. VanessaE: (background*[] is not appropriate to use on top of another background*[] imho) Krock: hmm Krock: styling buttons is possible, but I've indeed not seen a 9-sliced background image used like that VanessaE: background9[X,Y;1,1;ui_single_slot.png;16] 43 chars. :) Krock: X and Y may be 2 digits but yes, my guess was pretty close VanessaE: *nod* VanessaE: UI used to have a number of background[] elements scattered around, being used improperly where image[] should have been used, but that's just my opinion. VanessaE: (I fixed them all in the initial v4 rewrite) rubenwardy: backgrounds can go on backgrounds VanessaE: I know. rubenwardy: the only difference is 1) backgrounds can auto scale to formspec size and 2) backgrounds render before everything else rubenwardy: whereas from FSv3, elements render in order VanessaE: but it's still "wrong" :) rubenwardy: it's not necessarily wrong if it's background behind an element VanessaE: btw, I didn't notice (because my eyes suck), but does 9-slicing display the split up tiles at the user's display resolution, or are they scaled first by e.g. their local gui scaling? DivideByZero: seems restoring my backup from zip file has made things worse, I can't load the world at all now with error: A fatal error occurred: Couldn't save env meta VanessaE: Krock: naturally I'd make a helper function that'd take coordinates and total size and return a string ready to display, so from a coding standpoint it would be super easy to use. besides, however ig a formspec string gets shouldn't matter. it's only a few kb of text, it should not be slow to iterate through :) VanessaE: but if the displayed images wouldn't be at the user's native display resolution, then it would be pointless. VanessaE: (mainly I'd do this because MT uses nearest neighbor scaling instead of something nice like lanczos or even just cubic :) VanessaE: ) VanessaE: though building it up from the single slot image would also mean I'd only need that one image (plus the arrow image for the crafting grid) VanessaE: Krock: because I'm an idiot, could you re-propose your table.copy() suggestion, but test it this time? ;) VanessaE: (I prefer to credit/blame as appropriate, even if it's just one line ;) ) DivideByZero: I finally solved this issue: "A fatal error occurred: Couldn't save env meta", seems that restoring from backup messed up all the file ownership. which needed to be 'sudo chown -R Debian-minetest:games', even though previously they were root:root. DivideByZero: Now I'm back to working on my original issue about the breads. DivideByZero: I found the mod that was causing the breads icon issue, it was Tenplus1's stamina mod. And after reading through it more carefully it does show the bread icons, so it's not a bug but a feature. Nothing to report to mod creator. DivideByZero: I previously had thought stamina only added stamina to the game not hunger stuff as well. DivideByZero: I learned a lot during this process, and I'm happy to have my server back in working condition. DivideByZero: Thank you to everyone who offered suggestions and support. * VanessaE: shakes Krock vigorously VanessaE: DivideByZero: you're welcome, not that I did anything :) Krock: VanessaE: can you please calm down? u_i won't run away and I'm busy playing uno Krock: priorities c'mon DivideByZero: VanessaE: Even if you didn't help me, thank you anyways for all the great work you've done for the Minetest community. :D VanessaE: Krock: heh ok :) VanessaE: Krock: try Skip-Bo some time. I always had fun playing that growing up, though I don't remember how now :) DivideByZero: Debian only offers Minetest 0.4.17, and 5.3.0 with backports. Seems they won't have minetest-server 5.* for awhile. Is there a way to upgrade my server with git to a newer version on Debian? And will building it myself still give the ability to start with systemctl service? Krock: VanessaE: I wish that were easy to implement in a text bot :( VanessaE: heh VanessaE: DivideByZero: so don't run stale. run sid. :) DivideByZero: what's 'sid' ? VanessaE: deb's 'unstable' branch VanessaE: named for the kid in Toy Story, natch DivideByZero: What version does that offer? VanessaE: you know, I didn't actually look... VanessaE: but you can just roll your own, too VanessaE: I do, on Deb testing Taserface: dividebyzero: using a snap is an option DivideByZero: I used to think Deb was good for being stable, but sometimes it's not even that stable, and it's always way out of date. Unfortunately that pc that runs my server is only 32bit and I can't get Manjaro on it. VanessaE: out of date hence, "stale" :) DivideByZero: How would I go about 'rolling my own' ? VanessaE: maybe switch to a source code based distro? like -funroll-loops -ftype-r-sticker -fvelocity-stacks ;) DivideByZero: And will upgrading the server version mess up my world? VanessaE: follow the build instructions in the readme, and no. worlds are always backward compatible, though I can't speak for the behavior of the mods you use. Jonathon: you most likely will have to upgrade mods if going from 0.4x to 5x DivideByZero: Debian sid only offers: minetest (5.3.0+repack-2) VanessaE: oh wait, I forgot -fracing-stripes :) VanessaE: (obviously I'm referring to Gentoo) DivideByZero: Well the reason I wanted to upgrade was because I updated all my mods, and now some are too new to work on the 5.3.0 server. DivideByZero: So I was thinking if everything was up to date it should all work? or mostly at least. :P VanessaE: it will. DivideByZero: I updated a few of your mods, and they won't work anymore with 5.3.0 VanessaE: I have 5.4.0 and all mods are up-to-date as of a week ago or so, plus I run a bunch of servers on it/them. DivideByZero: If I remember correctly they need version 4.* VanessaE: nope DivideByZero: 5.* ? VanessaE: none of my mods require 0.4.x DivideByZero: sorry I meant 5.4.* DivideByZero: But I see the newest is 5.5.0 VanessaE: no VanessaE: the newest is 5.4.0 DivideByZero: I have 5.5.0-dev**** on this PC, but I built it from github. VanessaE: "5.5.0" would just be the development code. Krock: 5.5.0-dev is a development version prior to 5.5.0 stable VanessaE: it's still essentially 5.4.0 right now VanessaE: given how new that release is DivideByZero: yes, I have the 5.5.0-dev on this computer for the client. DivideByZero: It may be newer than I need, but I also kept the 5.3.0 version too. DivideByZero: But the server 5.3.0 needs to be updated for the new mods. DivideByZero: I run the dedicated server 'minetest-server' not the client server. DivideByZero: is there a github repository for the 'minetest-server' vs 'minetest'. DivideByZero: I googled it but couldn't find it. numzero: no, both minetest and minetestserver are built from the same repository numzero: there are cmake flags: BUILD_CLIENT and BUILD_SERVER DivideByZero: Oh, because on debian it is two seperate installs. numzero: splitting packages is common on Debian DivideByZero: Well that solves some confusion. DivideByZero: So how would I specify to make the inetest-server? cmake . ? y5nw: IIRC: cmake . -DBUILD_SERVER=1 DivideByZero: Is there directions for this somewhere I can read through? Vanessa mentioned that. y5nw: http://github.com/minetest/minetest DivideByZero: Oh right on the main github page, ok. y5nw: It's in the readme there DivideByZero: thank you. DivideByZero: "You can build a bare server by specifying -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE." VanessaE: 1 or TRUE, both usually work. DivideByZero: That must be the command I was looking for? DivideByZero: ok. DivideByZero: Will this give the dev version or the 5.4.0 ? y5nw: From the master branch it should give the dev version (afaik) VanessaE: if you just clone as the readme says, you'll get 5.5.0-dev DivideByZero: Is that what I should go for, or should I get the 5.4.0-stable? What version do you run Vanessa? y5nw: I think the stable version is on stable-5 VanessaE: I have 5.4.0-release on both my PC and my public servers VanessaE: (which is to say, I git pulled the sources, reset to the commit where 5.4.0 was tagged, then built.) Warr1024: If you're looking to play, I'd always try to use the latest stable release. If you're looking to mod, you might want the latest dev snapshot ... or both, really. DivideByZero: I'm looking to play mostly, have only done minimal mod stuff so far. DivideByZero: And I want others to be able to play on my server too. Warr1024: 5.x versions have pretty broad compatibility in general Warr1024: whether other people can join using 5.x versions or not would have more to do with the mods you choose VanessaE: as a rule, if it ran under say, 0.4.15 or so, it'll run on everything newer Warr1024: usually I think people can still technically join, but some aspects of what the mods do may appear broken for players on versions too old. VanessaE: but the reverse naturally isn'tso. DivideByZero: So if I want the 5.4.0 can I get that with 'git' command? VanessaE: DivideByZero: yes VanessaE: clone or pull, then `git reset --hard f3e51dc` DivideByZero: I never ran the 0.4.17 server, I've only made this server a couple months ago. So I started off with 5.3.0 VanessaE: or I think you can use the tag instead of the commit DivideByZero: so clone it like normal, then run `git reset --hard f3e51dc`, then make it? VanessaE: yep VanessaE: that commit is when 5.4.0 was tagged as stable VanessaE: couple weeks ago) VanessaE: though usually you can just pull right up to HEAD and it'll probably work fine DivideByZero: I should uninstall the 5.3.0 server first? Or it won't matter? VanessaE: you should uninstall it since it came from Debian DivideByZero: ok. VanessaE: don't wanna cause confusion VanessaE: fwiw, I build mine as run-in-place DivideByZero: and the new version should work with the systemctl like the current one does? VanessaE: so if I wanted, I could install whatever Debian offers, as an alternate VanessaE: idk about systemctl VanessaE: like I said I use run-in-place, which by definition wouldn't use that feature even if it can. DivideByZero: How do you keep your servers auto starting and restarting? VanessaE: I use a simple script which, at the bottom of it all, isn't much more than #!/bin/bash while true; do minetestserver ; sleep 30; done DivideByZero: ok. DivideByZero: And now I can thank you for helping me too, since you have now. :D Thank you! * VanessaE: throws down a "Wild, Draw Four" card in front of Krock ;) VanessaE: heh VanessaE: I said nothing that you couldn't find in the readme or on superuser or stackoverflow ;) DivideByZero: Vanessa: you were still helpful to me, and I appreciate that. VanessaE: I try :) VanessaE: good luck DivideByZero: Thanks for wishing me luck too, I may need it. :D Jordach: we playing UNO VanessaE: Jordach: well Krock may be, but I'm just trolling him ;) Panquesito7: Did someone ping me? :P DivideByZero: for the cmake command, can I do this: 'cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE' or does this need to be 2 separate commands like 'cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE' & then 'cmake . -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE' VanessaE: one command. DivideByZero: ok :) DivideByZero: Oh no, i got errors in cmake DivideByZero: I think I am missing dependancies. DivideByZero: dependencies DivideByZero: I thought the dependencies would be fulfilled since I just had the server installed. DivideByZero: I can't find irrlicht in Debian to install it. DivideByZero: Oh I found it's called "libirrlicht-dev" DivideByZero: this should be all I need: 'sudo apt install g++ make libc6-dev libirrlicht-dev cmake libbz2-dev libpng-dev libjpeg-dev libxxf86vm-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libsqlite3-dev libogg-dev libvorbis-dev libopenal-dev libcurl4-gnutls-dev libfreetype6-dev zlib1g-dev libgmp-dev libjsoncpp-dev' DivideByZero: how important is GettextLib ? DivideByZero: It says not found, but the make seemed successful. DivideByZero: cmake seemed successful I meant. y5nw: Afaik gettext is only used for translations. Not sure if it's for server- or client-side though DivideByZero: I'm building the server from github sfan5: you dont need gettext then DivideByZero: thanks sfan5: and you don't need any of libpng-dev libjpeg-dev libxxf86vm-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libogg-dev libvorbis-dev libopenal-dev libfreetype6-dev either DivideByZero: Already installed those though, no harm right? sfan5: doesn't hurt sfan5: it's just not needed DivideByZero: ok, only wasted 40 mbs, i can live with that, or remove them after I get the server running. DivideByZero: it's making, takes awhile on the old server pc. I heard the fan kick in to overdrive to cool it down. :P DivideByZero: 29%, I'm going to exit for a quick break while it's doing it's thing. DivideByZero: 100% [Pokey]: Hey, looked around online a little and can't find what I'm looking for. I have a 5 button mouse, is it possible to reconfigure my controls to allow me to use a non standard mouse button? (or any button at all, I can't find how to reconfigure mouse controls) DivideByZero: it built but it's missing the 'minetest' game, only got devtest. How do I fix that? sfan5: cd games && git clone https://github.com/games/minetest_game -b stable-5 DivideByZero: thanks sfan. DivideByZero: says repository not found. DivideByZero: visiting the page shows a 404 error too. VanessaE: /games/ ?? Krock: cd games && git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git -b stable-5 Krock: ftfy DivideByZero: and why's it asking for my github username & password? it hasn;t done that before. Krock: because it might be a hidden repository Krock: and you can only know that by logging in to check whether you could have access Krock: but it's in fact just missing y5nw: I don't think minetest/minetest_game is public Krock: wat Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/ y5nw: Typo: I meant it is public y5nw: As in you should not need a GH account to access it DivideByZero: I'm getting errors still y5nw: How about posting the error message? Maybe it was just a typo or something like that DivideByZero: fatal: repository 'https://github.com/games/minetest_game.git/ DivideByZero: fatal: repository 'https://github.com/games/minetest_game.git/' not found DivideByZero: Not sure why it has the slash at the end, I didn't put it there when I typed it in. Krock: DivideByZero: replace "games" with "minetest" DivideByZero: Have re-tried several times DivideByZero: ok I'll try that DivideByZero: yeah that's working and didn't ask me for account or password either. Krock: good DivideByZero: ok it loaded, now I have to spend some time setting it up. It didn't pick up my previous settings apparently. DivideByZero: Thanks for the support. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! DivideByZero: I might have more questions before I'm done. :P Hopefully not many though. You've all been very kind and helpful though. sfan5: yeah sorry I typed that wrong earlier DivideByZero: no problem sfan5. Thanks still. DivideByZero: my minetest.conf used to be in '/etc/minetest' when i used the debian installed server, but now that I built the server from github do the files need to go to a new place? It doesn't seem to find my conf file anymore Krock: should be in ~/.minetest DivideByZero: in my home folder instead? Krock: yes. system files should be static Krock: minetest will check that directory for mods, texture packs and such Krock: btw also documented somewhere in git, and on wiki.minetest.net DivideByZero: and my mods used to be in /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/mods Krock: weird structure but might work DivideByZero: it doesn't work anymore now that I built from github DivideByZero: trying to figure out the new structure it wasnts. DivideByZero: Debian just did things weird before I guess. DivideByZero: even the log file isn't where it used to be in /var/log/minetest Krock: everything should be in the home directory DivideByZero: This is for the minetestserver build, not the client. Your directions still good? Krock: yes. client and server share the same code DivideByZero: ok Krock: in fact, the client build requires a server to even start a singleplayer game DivideByZero: I'll try moving my stuff to the new location. Krock: or symlink DivideByZero: I didn't build the client, just the server. The client is still the outdated 5.3.0 DivideByZero: But i never use the client from the server computer anyways, I do that from another pc DivideByZero: I rather move them than symlink, because the old way was a pain in the butt, because the directorys were locked with permissions and I had to sudo to even save a file when I made changes, in my home directory I won't have to do that anymore. DivideByZero: But I'm also wondering if this server is still going to use the Debian-minetest user, or if its going to run off my privledged user. y5nw: It depends on the user you run the server as DivideByZero: yeah I installed it under my name, so it's going to use that right? y5nw: I will try to explain it then: DivideByZero: If debian would just bother to get closer to up to date, I wouldn't have this hassle. y5nw: If you run the server with ./bin/minetestserver or something like that then you are running the server using the same user you run the shell as DivideByZero: i tried running it like i did the old debian package, with: DivideByZero: 'sudo systemctl start minetest-server' y5nw: The systemd service in Debian uses (afaik) a special user for the MT server DivideByZero: But I'm not certain that's working. DivideByZero: says active (exited) DivideByZero: Vanessa had mentioned to me she was not sure if it would work with systemctl or not. y5nw: Afaik you probably need to look into the systemd service file and see if the path to minetestserver in that file corresponds to the path to the MT server binary you built DivideByZero: I went to look at that file and it disapeared. y5nw: ... because you uninstalled the MT server with apt? DivideByZero: yet it still let's me run the command DivideByZero: yes uninstalled the Debian package, and then built from github DivideByZero: because Debian only has 0.4.17 on main branch, and even with backports only offers 5.3.0 which I was previously using/ y5nw: I'm not sure. It could be that the MT server was still running when you uninstalled it DivideByZero: no i was sure to stop it first y5nw: Then I can't tell what happened. Which "that file" did you want to look at? DivideByZero: minetest-server.service DivideByZero: Does anyone know for sure or not if the build from github supports systemctl? Otherwise that may be a moot point. y5nw: I think it does not really depend on the build itself. It should work if you provide a service file DivideByZero: the debian built created one for me. So now I'll have to create my own I guess.. y5nw: You can modify it from the file provied by Debian y5nw: https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/minetest/-/blob/buster-backports/debian/minetest-server.service DivideByZero: But i think I may have to re do all this, because since I installed it under my main user name it's going to try to run from that username, whereas it used to run as Debian-minetest user which is an unprivleged user. DivideByZero: Thanks. that link will be very helpful, so I don't have to create it from scratch. y5nw: You can just build MT server using an unprivileged user and use the same user to run the server y5nw: Also the user who builds the binary is not necessarily related to the user who runs the binary DivideByZero: even if it's in my home dir? y5nw: Depends on whether other users can access your home dir (and write to it) DivideByZero: i built with the flag -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE DivideByZero: so it would install globally, but it seems to have still installed to my home folder y5nw: I said the access to the directory and the related files, not the build options DivideByZero: yes I was not replying to your statement, just giving more info. y5nw: I'm not sure how that's related at all DivideByZero: so that it could be ran by other users, not just me.. if that makes more sense? y5nw: If you don't install it, then the built files stay inside the bin/ directory afaik y5nw: It depends on whether they have access to the directory and the files related to the MT server y5nw: Look up "Unix file permission" about that topic DivideByZero: my home folder is provate so they won't have access to it. DivideByZero: private DivideByZero: I'm going to have to start over doing this on a unprivledge account it seems. y5nw: Then you might want to copy the files to somewhere that the said user running the server as can access and write to y5nw: And set the rwx permissions correspondingly, of course DivideByZero: how do I remove it? since I built with git? Just delete the folders, or is there a command to remove it? DivideByZero: i don't think git has a 'git remove' y5nw: If you haven't yet installed the files you should be able to remove it with rm DivideByZero: I did 'make' so i guess thats not installing it? y5nw: Afaik no DivideByZero: I'm not even sure how I would install it afterwards. I'm new to the whole git thing. Been working with it for about 3 days only. y5nw: I don't think you have to install it at all DivideByZero: not to run it as my own user, but if I want to run it as a unprivledged user installing it might make it accessible. y5nw: Like, if you only have a single user that runs the server as, then you only need to make sure the files are somewhere that the user has access to DivideByZero: otherwise I need to remove it all and install as the other user y5nw: Copy the file to that unprivileged user y5nw: cp -r y5nw: Btw git does have a remove command except it does not do what you might think it does: https://git-scm.com/docs/git-rm DivideByZero: well if nothing installed to other locations, I should be ok just deleting the folder that git made then. DivideByZero: ~/home//minetest DivideByZero: probably didn't need the ~ there. y5nw: It should be ~/minetest if I understand you correctly DivideByZero: yes y5nw: Yes, you can y5nw: But then you will need to rebuild the server again DivideByZero: yeah DivideByZero: I rather have to rebuild than run on a privledge user account though. For security. appguru: Looking at the changelog: https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog#5.3.0_.E2.86.92_5.4.0 DivideByZero: Unless as I think you were saying I can just copy everything over to the new user. y5nw: Well you could just copy that directory to that of the unprivileged user DivideByZero: I'll try that first y5nw: Then you don't need to rebuild it y5nw: Well, if you do that you might also need to change the access rights of the dest. directory y5nw: Hopefully someone else can help you out now. I need to go to bed DivideByZero: thank you for you time and support. have a good night. DivideByZero: I think some of the docs have typographical errors @ https://github.com/minetest/minetest "BUILD_SERVER=FALSE - Build Minetest server" I believe the FALSE should be TRUE here. DivideByZero: "RUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE - Create a portable install (worlds, settings etc. in current directory)" and the FALSE should be TRUE here as well. sfan5: why? DivideByZero: because if it's FALSE you are telling it not to do that thing. DivideByZero: Which contradicts what the doc is saying. sfan5: the FALSE is the default value of that setting DivideByZero: but opposite to what the doc is proclaiming. sfan5: not really DivideByZero: for example if you want to build the server you would use BUILD_SERVER=TRUE, and not FALSE which would not build the server. sfan5: you're supposed to read that as "BUILD_SERVER controls whether 'Build Minetest server' should be done and it's FALSE by default" DivideByZero: Ok, maybe I am reading it wrong as you suggest. But it does make it more confusing that way. At least it did for me. DivideByZero: But since it was already explained to me earlier, I noticed it was opposite. DivideByZero: I guess if I read the "General options and their default values:" just above it it makes more sense. :D DivideByZero: I did search and it scrolled past that part. My apologies, and you are correct sfan5. sfan5: oh if that's explicitly explained it's even better DivideByZero: agreed. DivideByZero: well I made a new unprivledged user, and I'm about to go through the proccess again. I'm gaining more experience having to do it again, so that's one positive of it. DivideByZero: I'm documenting my steps as well in case I need to redo this in the future. I'm willing to share it if it could help anyone else in the coming future. * VanessaE: heads off for a bit VanessaE: Krock: I'd appreciate it if you could finish the review or at least give it a thumbs up so I can merge :) VanessaE: bbl DivideByZero: 1) $ git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github DivideByZero: 2) $ git reset --hard f3e51dc DivideByZero: 3) $ cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE -ENABLE_POSTGRESQL=OFF -ENABLE_GETTEXT=OFF -ENABLE_CURSES=OFF DivideByZero: 4) $ make -j$(nproc) DivideByZero: 5) profit DivideByZero: oops.github should be .git i'll fix that typo. DivideByZero: I think that's the basic jist of it though. oneplustwo: the build instructions are in the readme DivideByZero: listed the dependencies too. DivideByZero: oneplustwo: yeah but they aren't as clear of steps as I wrote out. (even though some of this may be specific to me with the cmake options.) DivideByZero: Instead of reading the entire doc each time, I can refer to my quick steps doc. DivideByZero: It will be helpful to me, even if to no one else. Just thought I'd share in case it was beneficial to anyone. No problem if it's not. DivideByZero: and the 5th step was just a South Park joke. sfan5: instead of that specific commit id you can also just `git checkout 5.4.0` btw DivideByZero: replace 'git reset --hard f3e51dc' with 'git checkout 5.4.0' ? sfan5: yes DivideByZero: Ok I'll try that, it's more clear what I'm getting with your suggestion. DivideByZero: 'f3e51dc' isn't very informative. DivideByZero: it gave me "f3e51dca1" with an additional 'a1' after the id. It's the same though? sfan5: yes DivideByZero: I'm just asking this for curiousity as it's not important to the task at hand, but does that last a1 mean something if you know? sfan5: the full one is f3e51dca155ce1d1062a339cf925f41d7c751df8 actually DivideByZero: ooh DivideByZero: glad I didn't have to type that out. :) sfan5: you can truncate it down to a reasonable length and git will get what you mean anyway DivideByZero: Very good explaination. Thanks. cheapie: This has been possible for a while now, but the digistuff update I pushed today certainly makes it easier :P https://cheapiesystems.com/media/pizzahuhsign.webm DivideByZero: I updated some mods on my server that were working, but now I'm getting errors like: .....homedecor_fences/init.lua bad argument #1 to 'insert' (table expected, got nil). ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome DivideByZero: Are the scripts too new for the 5.3.0 server? Or some other reason someone knows about? cheapie: DivideByZero: Can you pastebin the full error you get? DivideByZero: Is there a file to edit or another way to clear the HUD? I ran hbhunger mod and a row of breads appeared on the screen with the bar over it. I disabled the mod, and the HUD bar is gone, but the row of bread remains, like it got stuck on there somehow. DivideByZero: exiting and rejoining does not help, even resetting the server didn't solve it. DivideByZero: I even made a new character and it's still on the screen. DivideByZero: Another bug I'm experiencing is that I can no longer send text to the chat. Commands work, but nothing appears in chat. DivideByZero: I resolved the not able to text. It was due to a CSM clouredchat. The other issues I have not been able to resolve. All CSM's are disabled now. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix function override warnings in mg_ore.h 131c7b69f https://git.io/JqTCt (152021-03-06T13:21:08Z) VanessaE: moving Unified Inventory out of the formspec dark ages: https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory/pull/168 VanessaE: :) VanessaE: If someone could please review that pull request, I'd appreciate it. It's big enough that I don't feel comfortable merging it without someone taking a look at it. Magnus Blackarm: i'm getting "bus error" crashes running mineclone2 0.71.0 on minetest stable-5. is this more likely to be a problem in minetest or mineclone2? sfan5: the application crashing entirely is an engine problem Magnus Blackarm: is there some kind of data i could produce to help track the error? Taserface: would it be unoriginal of me to mention how minetest's name sounds kind of temporary? rubenwardy: yes VanessaE: quite. rubenwardy: the most permanent things were temporary MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up ClientEvent hudadd/hudchange internals 13593d5f4 https://git.io/JqT9I (152021-03-06T22:02:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: buildbot: Drop i586-mingw32msvc, add i686-w64-mingw32-posix detection 13dd228fd https://git.io/JqT9L (152021-03-06T22:01:50Z) Extexo: Could somebody give a code snippet for a 9 slice button? VanessaE: Extexo: "background[0,0;1,1;foo.png;true;16]" imagine drawing a 3x3 tic-tac-toe grid on the image, with the lines at 16 px from each edge. the image will be positioned starting at 0,0 and since I specified 'true', the image will fill the formspec, with its corners placed as-is and the middle bits scaled up rubenwardy: that's for a background VanessaE: (the 1,1 is ignored) VanessaE: damn it, typo rubenwardy: style[btn_name;bgimg=image.png;bgimage_middle=10] rubenwardy: oops VanessaE: that's an even worse typo ;) Extexo: Lol rubenwardy: I corrected the spelling rubenwardy: style[btn_name;bgimg=image.png;bgimg_middle=10] VanessaE: I'm literally only just now trying it myself rubenwardy: you'll also want to use states Extexo: Oh ok Extexo: So there's no button9 or anything? rubenwardy: style[btn_name;bgimg=image.png;bgimg_middle=10] rubenwardy: style[btn_name:hovered;bgimg=image_hover.png] rubenwardy: nope rubenwardy: because we have formspec versions rubenwardy: there's no need for button9 Extexo: Ah ok rubenwardy: also, styles Extexo: I think I'm late on the new formspec stuff lol VanessaE: for the background, it was surprisingly easy, despite the poorly-worded lua_api.txt :) Extexo: Yeah I noticed that lol Extexo: But I got it to work eventually Extexo: https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/72057531ebda6236/Screenshot_2021-03-06-15-52-38.png Extexo: Ok so I style the button then just use the normal image_button for it? rubenwardy: image buttons are for when you want a button _containing_ an image rubenwardy: if you're using 9 slice then usually you want a button with an image background, not containing an image Extexo: Ah... rubenwardy: style[btn_name;bgimg=image.png;bgimg_middle=10] rubenwardy: style[btn_name:hovered;bgimg=image_hover.png] rubenwardy: button[0,0;3,0.8;btn_name;Text] Extexo: Yeah I'm totally new to this lol rubenwardy: also, to theme all buttons you can use style_type[button; instead of style[btn_name; Extexo: Ohh Extexo: I think I understand now Extexo: So it's like CSS styling Extexo: Cool Extexo: Ok thanks rubenwardy: a little bit, but no tree hierarchies Extexo: If I have any problems I'll be back rubenwardy: and very simple selectors hisforever: Hi How can I get my water to be see through, its now so blue it isn't see through? hisforever: I've went to settings and set it on opaque but not in advanced settings gry: hisforever: did it work before? hisforever: I always sould see through the water but not since I had to reinstall Os gry: hisforever: what if you set opaqueness to the opposite value? 0 instead of 1, or 1 instead of 0? hisforever: couldI'll go try that th hisforever: brb hisforever: this is what my water looks kike https://imgur.com/a/XaKfk5J hisforever: I can't find where to set it? gry: it is the opaque_water setting gry: in Minetest.conf gry: maybe set it to 0, restart minetest, set it to 1, restart minetest hisforever: ok thanks cheapie: For when you need something to keep your Luacontrollers cool: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/mtwraith.webm sagax: hi all! gry: Hi sagax ElCeejo: test /g/: lol ceej /g/: also which wraith cooler is that? sagax: minetest have some magick for weapons? /g/: mines do :dungeonmaster: /g/: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/817233211884044328/Screenshot_at_2021-03-04_22-12-44.png SaveSaveSave: Hey, does anyone know if it is possible to connect to minetest servers using SRV entries? SaveSaveSave: Because I have made one, and it doesnt work SaveSaveSave: _minetest._tcp.MYDOMAIN.dom service = 5 0 30000 sub.MYDOMAIN.dom. SaveSaveSave: oh it could be tcp SaveSaveSave: minetest is udp SaveSaveSave: hmm it still doesnt work... Taserface: hi, are invisible hostiles a thing in any of the mods in whynot? Taserface: I swear I just got killed by something I couldn't see qj: did you interact with it as a mob? collide with it, see a drop, etc? qj: could be something else that hurts. poisoning… radioactivity… Taserface: well it interacted with me. repeatedly damaged me until I was dead. Taserface: it was dark but above ground. I circled around and saw nothing. Taserface: it made a noise of some sort Taserface: I don't know all the mobs yet qj: not cool. dunno then. :/ calcul0n__: isn't it one of these mods where darkness hurts you? Taserface: well unless the darkness makes evil ghost-like noises Taserface: this is the whynot game calcul0n__: hmm, i don't know this game calcul0n__: looks creepy :p Taserface: but you can make waffles! Taserface: and paint your sword pink 56independent: Discord Is my Irc client. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Pause animations while game is paused (#10658) 13613d6ce https://git.io/JqU3w (152021-03-05T15:28:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translatate builtin (#10693) 13ea4c8a7 https://git.io/JqU3r (152021-03-05T15:27:33Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Pause animations while game is paused (#10658) 13abb0c99 https://git.io/JqU37 (152021-03-05T15:30:01Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translate builtin (#10693) 13cafad6a https://git.io/JqU35 (152021-03-05T15:29:48Z) Markow: On some servers, steel doors, locked chests and boats (in addition to lava and water) are a nightmare when it comes to griefers. They simply enjoy polluting a server. Markow: Problem is, on these servers, the admin is never present. VanessaE: Is it possible to change the background color for textarea[] and field[] formspec elements? VanessaE: (without resorting to using a background image) j45: i saw https://github.com/paramat/lvm_example about mapgen, but how would you make it so there are different layers of node, like in the normal mapgen? (i asked in #modding but noone responded so im asking here) hisforever: VanessaE: are you here? VanessaE: maybe :P hisforever: VanessaE: Sorry for the late comback. What server do you run? VanessaE: I run seven servers VanessaE: :P hisforever: VanessaE Whitch worlds are you head of I'm looking to join one? VanessaE: all of my servers are in the public list with my name on them :) VanessaE: daconcepts.com ports 30000, 30001, 30010, 30045, and more hisforever: ok I'll go look thanks VanessaE: you might like 30000, that's a dreambuilder creati.... damn it VanessaE: I hate when she does that. wwar: 👀 VanessaE: Krock: you awake? j45: Does anyone know the answer to my question? xD rubenwardy: my only answer is "with code" rubenwardy: doing things like layers is very much to do with mapgen logic rubenwardy: with 2d noise, you can get the height for a particular X/Z, and then add layers based on offset j45: Hmm j45: Ok, thanks rubenwardy: there's probably blogs and resources on procedural mapgen celeron55: with 3d noise you'll have to search for the surfaces rubenwardy: You could require a different threshold for layers, but you'll end up with an uneven thickness celeron55: noting there can be any amount of surfaces in a given x,z coordinate celeron55: alternatively you can use the noise value if you don't want a gravitational surface but rather a surface to any direction celeron55: then you don't know the exact depth celeron55: i think for a first mapgen 2d noise is probably a good idea celeron55: it's much more controllable MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EliasFleckenstein03 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add mod.conf to preview clientmod (#11020) 135b42b5a https://git.io/JqJei (152021-03-04T19:37:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Protect mg_name and mg_flags from being set by Lua (#11010) 13ac8ac19 https://git.io/JqJeA (152021-03-04T19:38:28Z) zceejkr: Hello. I am trying so set myself as the server admin. I have set my palyer name as name= in minetest.conf zceejkr: And restarted the server, but I still dont have all the /privs zceejkr: Any ideas on what the problem could be> zceejkr: ? rubenwardy: /grantme all will give all privs rubenwardy: warning: this gives `creative` too, which is a mispriv zceejkr: It says your privilages are insufficient... appguru: you're not the admin appguru: you have to set the name in conf to your name zceejkr: MTDiscord I did do that. And restarted the server sfan5: are you sure it's reading your minetest.conf then? zceejkr: nvm I used double quotes... zceejkr: For the string XD Rowowan: So, which part of the game is written in C++, and which part is written in Lua? SoylentCow: in the beginning, there was the word, and the word was a big-endian hextet Jonathon: If by game you mean mtg, thats all? Or almost all lua Jonathon: If your refering to the engine, it is c++ outside of builtin with is lua Rowowan: I am referring to base, yes hisforever: Hi I really am confuzed (grin) I hava a friend that gave me his mod/ but whenI put it in game it gave me this error https://imgur.com/a/9vlDsMS hisforever: this mod is not in my /home/.minetesr/mod folder I completely removed it. but to still wont let me in game. Why? adfeno: Hi there, does replacing a property of a craftitem also needs to specify all the originals for other properties? adfeno: For example, if I want to replace only the recipe of Travelnet, do I need to also include the original definitions from Travelnet along with my recipe replacement? rubenwardy: hisforever: you've taken a screenshot of the screenshot dialog VanessaE: haha VanessaE: glad someone still uses HDX though :) hisforever: VanessaE I do use your textures. I think your mods are treffic :) VanessaE: thanks :) hisforever: rubenwardy: sorry about must have hit screenshot 2 times lol hisforever: https://imgur.com/a/EZFWUge this screenshot is better. I really need help with his one? VanessaE: hisforever: rename it to lowercase the 'M'. hisforever: ok I'll try that thanks VanessaE: rblokmods, but rblokMods. VanessaE: assuming that's the correct name,. VanessaE: s/but/not/ hisforever: VanessaE: your the best :) VanessaE: nah, I'm just average :) hisforever: lol hisforever: I have to say bue for now but I Like to be in here God bless VanessaE: bye hisforever: VanessaE: I know this is easy but I frogot the command for hot bar? is it /hotbar 32? VanessaE: or 8 or 16 or 24, yes. hisforever: humm its not working grrr VanessaE: btw if you have that I assume you're using dreambuilder. did you see the notification that it's now a game and needs to be reinstalled? hisforever: the hot bar is a game? VanessaE: no VanessaE: but it is from dreambuilder :) VanessaE: and I made that into a game over the past week or so VanessaE: just making sure you're not mixing things up hisforever: ok its in dreambuilder right? VanessaE: mmhmm hisforever: having a brain fart lol VanessaE: here, read this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=390814#p390814 hisforever: ok hisforever: understand thanks adfeno: Hi all, is there any client setting to control how much time a client will wait for a packet that initiates a client-server connection? sfan5: I believe the network timeout is hardcoded adfeno: I have a firewall rule to tracepath of the hosts connecting to my server, which can also filter those matching a particular route hop/path, but the short timeout for Minetest's starting-connection packet is preventing this logic to work. adfeno: Either this, or I would resort to simple ipban or advanced_ban mods, which don't do nothing to stop vandals. adfeno: that is: to stop vandals from clogging my network before it hits my Minetest server. adfeno: The trace is only done for NEW or INVALID connection packets, so those ESTABLISHED or RELATED to a previously accepted one aren't filtered. hisforever: VanessaE: I got your game up and most of my mods work. the only one I can not get is advtrains VanessaE: "cannot get"? VanessaE: I've run it under DB before, though I didn't care much for it. I found it hard to use :P hisforever: I'll do a screenshot brb hisforever: https://imgur.com/a/ooC6p9c here it is VanessaE: looks like you just need to enable mesecons :) VanessaE: or wait VanessaE: hm VanessaE: *scratches head* hisforever: ok here is a pastbin too https://pastebin.com/S3H4LkGE hisforever: sorry to be triuble hehe VanessaE: did you follow the modpack -> game upgrade instructions properly? hisforever: I'm perttu shure i did VanessaE: I'm looking at the copy of mesecons_switch/init.lua that comes with dreambuilder, and that node that it's trying to override is right there at the top of the file VanessaE: or wait hisforever: ok I''ll just build with out the trains VanessaE: lemme go look at something VanessaE: brb hisforever: ok hisforever: that dreambuilders game is great VanessaE: thanks :) hisforever: did he pastbin give any help? VanessaE: nah, didn't need it hisforever: oh well I tryed VanessaE: ok, apart from advtrains throwing a couple of errors relating to some data file it can't find, it loaded without complaints, and I see its nodes in my inventory: https://imgur.com/t5acIpv.png VanessaE: I guess your copy of adv_trains is broken somehow. maybe just outdated? VanessaE: if it matters, I enabled the whole trains modpack VanessaE: my best guess is your copy lacks some dependency setting hisforever: ok I'll erinstall then get you in the morning God bless VanessaE: good luck :) hisforever: th SoylentCow: adv trains is amazing :D VanessaE: I found it to be ...too advanced :P VanessaE: though maybe I'll add it to Dreambuilder at some point VanessaE: people seem to like it. SoylentCow: too advanced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inR02pEesCQ VanessaE: heh VanessaE: never got into Invader Zim :P VanessaE: anyway, I get virtually no input from anyone on what's truly good or not good to add to my project VanessaE: though come to think of it, people like to build with those trains. VanessaE: SoylentCow: so what about that? Is it worth adding adv trains to Dreambuilder? Taserface: hi guys, I'm wondering what the "correct" mapgen is to select for a particular game? Taserface: I ask because I was just trying out mineclone2 with the v7 mapgen and I can't find any water *anywhere* Taserface: except for waterfalls and villages and such Krock: Taserface: all but singlenode can generate water Krock: as in .. oceans Krock: so either you just have somewhat bad luck, or someone tweaked the mapgen settings to reduce the occurrence of oceans Taserface: but I keep finding canyons with lava at the bottom Krock: interesting Taserface: also I just started flying and I keep hitting invisible walls Taserface: which seem to be about the width of a chunk I guess? (50ish blocks) Taserface: (maybe 32) Krock: !c 5*16 MinetestBot: 80 Krock: consider renaming your minetest.conf file, create a new world and check whether the same happens there Taserface: actually that sounds right. Taserface: okay Taserface: this is a fresh install btw Krock: also that 80 nodes gap is totally normal Taserface: snap running on debian buster Krock: it's just the mapgen that cannot catch up with your speed Taserface: I did increase the draw distance Krock: well, there's a hard limit of how far the mapgen will generate Krock: though that's configurable as well Taserface: you mean the 64k*64k limit? Taserface: sorry 62000^3 Taserface: can that be increased? Taserface: huh I just moved my whole .minetest out of the way and then created a new "minetest game" with v7 and instant water Taserface: wonder how I managed to break it so quickly :) Taserface: huh Taserface: "water_level = -31000" Taserface: I'm about 90% sure I didn't do that :) Taserface: is that setting persisted per game? as in, if I change it does it have no effect on already-generated games? Taserface: ah, found that Krock: Taserface: water_level -31000 means there are no oceans Krock: world.mt Taserface: yeah that :) Krock: and no, 64k nodes diameter is a limit. no way to extend that Taserface: aw. Taserface: I swear I'll submit a patch for that Krock: fwiw, 2^16, minus safety distance for the mapgen Krock: good luck Taserface: and be everybody's hero Krock: expect at least 500 lines to change, and another 200 lines for database migration code Krock: oh, and the collision engine might totally freak out at some point Taserface: interesting that you would know that ahead of time, of all things Krock: you'd get something similar Minecraft when travelling very far away Taserface: ah, I think I see what you mean Taserface: something about rounding Krock: kind of yes Taserface: wonder if that is because minecraft is using single precision floats internally Hawk777: And… I assume it would break saved data for any mod that uses hash_node_position too. Hawk777: Unless that is mangled to be backwards compatible. Hawk777: Given that the return value is a Lua “number”, which the manual claims is double-precision floating point, there aren’t many mantissa bits left to expand into. Taserface: is it wierd that I feel like 62000^3 is limiting? Hawk777: Personally I always thought it was a little bit weird; 62 km horizontally seems a little bit small, while 62 km vertically seems larger than necessary. Taserface: how long does it take to hit the edge of the universe at flying speed? Hawk777: I mean, 62 km is still big, it’s just not *huge*. Jonathon: i thought it was big till went through the nether in mc2 Taserface: I have no idea how that water level got set. I sure as hell didn't type that number. Taserface: ls Taserface: ack, orry Taserface: the console reminds me of quake Taserface: also, is there a mouse smoothing option? Taserface: that would be a pretty easy featyre IhrFussel: Just a setting for mouse sensitivity I think Taserface: should be on by default IMHO Taserface: nobody would notice any lag, not if it's done right Taserface: I HAVE PANTS OF IRON Krock: heavy Taserface: yeah they would be Taserface: I don't know why I can walk around in this armor Taserface: this game is appallingly unrealistic Hawk777: Haha, you can carry literal tonnes of rock in your pockets and you’re worried about the armour? Taserface: oh don't get me started Taserface: How much effort was put into making sure generated items (e.g. diamons) are exactly as rare in mineclone2 as in MC? Taserface: I'm wondering if anyone has written a thesis on that :) oneplustwo: "taserface" SaveSaveSave: Hey, I am trying to set up a minetest server on a SELinux secured box. Selinux prohibits executing it though: avc: denied { execmem } SaveSaveSave: Does anyone know a solution? SELinux says I could allow it system wide, but that would defeat the purpose Hawk777: is not related to Minetest but does strongly suggest that LuaJIT requires execmem (which makes sense). I don’t know anything about SELinux, but are you not able to grant execmem only to Minetest but not to any other executables? Hawk777: It might not require execmem if you build it with Lua instead of LuaJIT, but I don’t think anyone does that due to being substantially slower. rubenwardy: LuaJIT is a JIT interpreter, so it makes sense that it requires execmem Taserface: "JIT compiler" * Taserface: twitches Taserface: what's the cheat to enable the map? SaveSaveSave: Hm, that makes sense, I'll try to find out how to do that. Enjoy ur night/day Wuzzy: hello. There will be a small party on the JT2 server soon. feel free to join the fun! (requires 0.4.17 client) 😊 Jordach: where's the vomit bag /g/: lol srinivas: > (requires 0.4.17 client) or you can use my mtlaucher, the worlds only (afaik) launcher for minetest that has support for both 4.x and 5.x servers srinivas: :p /g/: people still use 0.4.17? srinivas: debian 9 srinivas: without backports srinivas: centos 7 srinivas: centos 8 /g/: Ah yes, distro shenanigans srinivas: a whole lot of fun srinivas: come use arch, we got 5.4 on the day it was released srinivas: npm 7 in testing repos, it released about 10 hours ago srinivas: kernel 5.11.1 srinivas: python3.9 srinivas: must i go on? /g/: any luck compiling a version 5 client or Server? srinivas: on linux? srinivas: tis a breeze srinivas: however srinivas: there may be library issues srinivas: so that can theoretically complicate things /g/: pain srinivas: but worst case, you will need to pull manually srinivas: and compile srinivas: so the only thing you really need is a recent enough libc srinivas: and a bit of elbow grease Jonathon: why doesnt jt2 upgrade to 5.x? 🤔 Jordach: the elephant in the room Jordach: android Jordach: mobile clients ruined minetest Warr1024: Not mobile clients, just specifically the never-official iOS version Warr1024: At least android can keep up with the current version, even if the controls are awkward /g/: well on the contrary, mobile clients helped expand our playerbase in a sense /g/: it just needs more tinkering IhrFussel: AFAIK JT2 runs on a highly modified engine, so after upgrade they would've to incorporate their custom c++ changes again Rowowan: Does Minetest not have mobs? sfan5: you can install mods for that Rowowan: What about hunger? sfan5: same Rowowan: Pardon me for asking, but if the features are present, why aren't they in base? sfan5: first there's a distinction to be made between Minetest (the engine) and Minetest Game, which is probably what you are looking at IceDragon: At the end of the day, minetest is but an engine and doesn't assume any defaults outside of the bare minimum (and to remain lightweight to download), I assume by base you mean minetest_game, most mods should be compatible with it, and sfan5 beat me to it... sfan5: the engine only provides the possibilities the games decide what to add and provide the content. now for why Minetest Game has no mobs, that's a complicated story IceDragon: short answer: mobs are hard sfan5: if you were to download e.g. MineClone2 (another game for the Minetest engine) you'd find that it does have mobs Rowowan: Ooooh. Rowowan: yeah, I meant Minetest_Game. Rowowan: So, which is the closest Minecraft clone? sfan5: MineClone2 has that exact goal Jonathon: mineclone2, or crafter Jonathon: crafter is pretty much dead and the some parts of it have been merged/worked into mineclone2 Rowowan: Okay, cool. Rowowan: So, what exactly does contributing to MineTest itself mean? Warr1024: Contributing to minetest would generally involve making and publishing mods, and eventually games, and/or making engine improvments. adfeno: Hi, how does strict_protocol_version_checking compare "old clients" ? adfeno: Is it using the full version number, major.middle.minor or does it let 5.x.x clients connect to 5.3.0 ? rubenwardy: protocol numbers adfeno: Ah, OK adfeno: So it differs from version number adfeno: (I meant, it users protocol numbers instead) adfeno: Thank you ;) tech_exorcist: with some code editing, would it be possible to connect a 5.4.0 client to a (yes, this is oddly specific) 0.4.14-dev-719bd6b server? (which is actually a spheretest server; it turns out that you can connect 0.4.something stock clients to spheretest servers, and sphreretest clients to 0.4.the-same-something stock servers) rubenwardy: you'd need a lot of code editing, tech_exorcist, we intentionally broke network compat to simplify code Jonathon: 4x connecting to 5x has already been done Jonathon: Altho thats flip of what you want tech_exorcist: rubenwardy, ok tech_exorcist: @Jonathon, how has it been done though? Jonathon: See any multicraft2.0 server on the serverlist Jonathon: Tbh, seems like it would be easier to make the sphere stuff work in 5x than trying to go backwards Jonathon: But im i dont know much about the sphere Jonathon: *but i twoelk: going forwards should be more rewarding than going backwards adfeno: Hi there, which connections does servers.minetest.net make to announced servers? adfeno: (whether it's ICMP, UDP/TCP and port number) sfan5: udp to the port your server is running on adfeno: Ah, thanks ;) tech_exorcist: is https://servers.minetest.net's backend code free as in freedom? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/serverlist tech_exorcist: I meant the part that contacts servers, sorry for misexplaining tech_exorcist: :-) sfan5: it's in there tech_exorcist: thanks anyway tech_exorcist: oh tech_exorcist: nice tech_exorcist: thanks :-) tech_exorcist: has anyone here tried out spheretest? (I'm not the developer) xerox123: a while ago, yes tech_exorcist: we need a #minetest-offtopic, imho sfan5: why? offtopic is allowed here tech_exorcist: oh tech_exorcist: ok tech_exorcist: :-) SoylentCow: GreenXenith we are gonna have celeron shout at us again, but for what it's worth, minetest-the-engine does not have any "gameplay" at all, and is not really a video-game, so some semantic compromises were made SoylentCow: for sam's sake, 9let's discuss this article somewhere else GreenXenith: What, did he yell at someone before? x) GreenXenith: That is fair though Ronoaldo: http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Player Ronoaldo: Well, never knew about the origin of Sam name. GreenXenith: Ah, that's where its from. Unfortunately 1st party :p GreenXenith: thats where it could be cited* /g/: >Lore on mtg GreenXenith: >last modified 2013 GreenXenith: >currently no third person mode GreenXenith: lol /g/: :hyperXD: GreenXenith: oh wait it is technically not first party GreenXenith: since minetest.com isnt owned by c55 at the moment /g/: lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Settings: Push groups in to_table as well 133a2f55b https://git.io/Jtpnj (152021-03-01T11:14:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EliasFleckenstein03 -> 03minetest/minetest: Make pkgmgr handle modpacks containing modpacks properly 13c401a06 https://git.io/Jtpce (152021-03-01T11:13:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Disable clang-format, clean up scripts 13ccdaf5d https://git.io/Jtpcv (152021-03-01T11:12:52Z) adfeno: sfan5, rubenwardy: Re: translation: found the issue, indeed it was my setup. I forgot to include some paths containing locale definitions to LOCPATH. adfeno: Sorry, not locale definitions, but locale memory objects (.MO) files, for which one had Minetest's. adfeno: I wish Minetest used gettext format for mod localization, this would allow merging intllib into the code base. Although I don't know if it would be doable, so this is just a random thought. rubenwardy: there's a PR for that rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10451 sfan5: not sure what that has to do with intltlib though rubenwardy: just needs testing sfan5: intllib* adfeno: Besides, Gettext has support for fuzzy marks, compendia (automated translation of messages based on a common .PO file with all possible terms). rubenwardy: intllib used the gettext format, meaning you can copy from one to another adfeno: and Gettext also has numerous graphical user interface editors for the .po files. rubenwardy: like weblate adfeno: sfan5: ^ see rubenwardy's message sfan5: ah I see adfeno: Re: compendia/compendium: for example, GNU Union (the software behind the translation mechanism of GNU.org) supports that file, when a new page in an original language gets created or updated, the compendia/compendium can be used to make a .PO file out of the original. Such .PO can be tested further as usual. adfeno: Also, it would contribute to solve part of https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6503 sfan5: I don't think so, the PR doesn't replace the translation system with gettext it only adds parsing for .po files adfeno: (in regards to the possiblity that the mod maintainers could, say, especify pt_BR.UTF-8 as a symbolic link (or any similar link) to C.UTF-8 or vice-versa. adfeno: If I'm not mistaken, C.UTF-8 (or just C) is used is used if no translated string is found for a given original string, for each language the client/user prefers/expressed in $LANGUAGE (colon-separated list of languages understood, without character set). sfan5: gettext might do that but it's not what the PR adds MinetestBot: 02[git] 04srifqi -> 03minetest/minetest: Use vec4 for varTexCoord in interlaced shader (#11004) 131abb83b https://git.io/Jtp8N (152021-03-01T12:37:32Z) adfeno: All in all, for my locale issue, I forgot that all Guix-installed packages use GUIX_LOCPATH instead of LOCPATH, and while I did follow the advice from Guix's info document telling us to do `export GUIX_LOCPATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale`, the package I was testing (Minetest) stored locales uder …/share/locale. adfeno: Guix-installed packages use GUIX_LOCPATH because it is through this variable that Guix knows that it must sufix each with corresponding glibc-locales version that given package depends on, only then the path is passed to the program. This is done to avoid errors if given package isn't compatible with some version of glibc-locales. haska: Players, what do you think about built-in password&nickname manager for servers? adfeno: Actually, rephrasing my last message: that version sufix only applies to libc itself, it doesn't seem to apply to individual packages. adfeno: But GUIX_LOCPATH is equally important to be set to point to locales of such packages anyways. adfeno: So the issue was indeed lack of information (not from Minetest). [Pokey]: Hey hey, I'm having trouble activating my forum account, I keep getting a gateway timeout [Pokey]: Nevermind, it finally went through Jonathon: 502 or a 504? thats normal, get used to it sfan5: certainly not normal but the forum sometimes has load problems [Pokey]: Aha [Pokey]: as long as thats known its fine [Pokey]: If it wasn't I'd be worrieds Jonathon: its gotten a lot better since a few months? ago when c55 kicked the bots and did upgrades Gustavo6046: VanessaE: do you think voronoi could be used to make a tree's leaves depend on the closest "branch"? VanessaE: no idea there VanessaE: but if you mean in moretrees, those use L-system. VanessaE: which in MT is basically a stripped-down turtle graphics method, except in 3d lordfingle: Hiya! Minetest is hanging with a blank white window! I'm a longtime minetest user and modder yet I'm stumped. (Windows 10 64bit, minetest 5.4 win64) It appears that minetest 5.3 has the problem too. debug.txt, even on trace verbose mode just has the word "SEPERATOR" in there. Any ideas? sfan5: hard to say what might be the cause sfan5: try video_driver = direct3d9 just in case, though that isn't a permanent solution lordfingle: Thanks for responding. lordfingle: Sadly that made no difference. It's weird. White box, hanging on a busy indicator. I've never had minetest behave in such a way before. Krock: @lordfingle fix your graphics drivers lordfingle: kk. will try updating everything in sight sfan5: the only other way to debug this would be to run minetest in gdb Krock: > windows Krock: nvm, there actually seems to be a Windows port of gdb lordfingle: Thankyou so much. The graphics driver re-install (NVIDIA GEForce etc) has fixed the problem. It's strange because minetest was fine until recently. Perhaps that's just how graphics drivers go Krock: that's that Windows experience at its finest lordfingle: As a windows guy I'd like to object...but I can't....as the evidence is here before me. My faith in the stability of minetest is hereby restored. adfeno: Hi there, is there a mob framework with pathfinding compatible with 5.3.0? adfeno: I tried to find sapier's mobf, but only got 404 (Not Found) adfeno: I did find another copy of sapier's mobf, but even though I fixed the numerous wrong getpos() to get_pos(), it still gave me lots of errors. sfan5: !mod mobs_redo MinetestBot: sfan5: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo adfeno: sfan5: does it have pathfinding enabled? Krock: yes adfeno: I don't like the idea of mobs jumping to suicide or crossing walls like ghosts. adfeno: I noticed that some releases at ContentDB have tag/version names different from the Git of the original projects. adfeno: or that the Git projects have no tag at all, while the ContentDB releases have them. Krock: why do you need tags? just stay up to date Krock: git is always newest adfeno: Krock: I prefer stability, but also need to be able to spot the version easily. I also have a folder naming scheme for non-Git ones, such as name@version adfeno: I prefer to spot versions easily in case I do need to make a diff between versions. adfeno: Or, if eventually I need to convert the fixed version download to a Git-based one. adfeno: (for the purpose of making and directly sending patches) adfeno: Does TenPlus1's real_torch also work as a tool in player hand (wearing) ? adfeno: Ah, I decided to use illumination instead. adfeno: How to make clothing mod items appear in player texture? adfeno: Or is it a bad idea if using 3d_armor mod? tech_exorcist: hello Jonathon: hi MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: pkgmgr: Fix crash when .conf release field is invalid 13b390bd2 https://git.io/Jtx8x (152021-02-28T17:11:41Z) /g/: Is there a way to check if a player is using mobile? Warr1024: IIRC not reliably, and the transparency of client types is semi-by-design. Warr1024: I believe it's possible to ask players to do things that people on mobile can't do with the control scheme, but there's no good way to transparently check, and even if you can prove someone is definitely not a mobile user, you can't prove they definitely are a mobile user, as desktop users can emulate the functions of mobile. rubenwardy: *opaqueness /g/: I get that, but i was thinking of making a alternative hud for mobile users for my game rubenwardy: Yeah, it would be useful to be able to find it out Warr1024: It'd be actually kinda nice if Minetest provided a lot more advisory info to mods, but that's always met with protests about either modders relying on the wrong things, or clients can just hack around them anyway. sfan5: what would be useful is providing the DPI and whether the device has a touchscreen rubenwardy: yeah /g/: Seems fair. Or screen resolution rubenwardy: problem with screen resolution is that you actually probably want the window resolution, and it doesn't tell you anything about the device rubenwardy: My phone has a bigger screen resolution than my laptop sfan5: hm actually DPI might not be needed (formspecs scale already don't they?) Warr1024: DPI and pixel dimensions would be ideal. You'd want to be able to calculate physical sizes (touchscreen button sizes) and adjust your layouts based on aspect ratios. /g/: Yep sfan5: but window size in physical size is needed /g/: Exactly Warr1024: As far as mobile vs. not mobile goes, it might be better to ask whether the user has and/or relies on touch input. sfan5: if you have have physical dimensions and aspect ratio already, why would you need dpi? /g/: Currently my hud is a mess on Mobile, but on PC it's fine /g/: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/815642977790984242/Screenshot_20210228-123147_Minetest.jpg Warr1024: Potato potahto. Warr1024: Given any two of pixel dimensions, physical dimensions, and aspect, I could just calculate the 3rd if needd. appguru: Your HUD is way too advanced for Minetest Warr1024: I ran into similar problems with HUDs at one point, since the DPI-dependence of position vs. offset was calculated differently for different kinds of HUD elements, and ended up giving up on having much of a HUD at small sizes (pixel OR physical) sfan5: I think you mean s/aspect/dpi/ sfan5: because the aspect doesn't help you know the ratio betweern physical/pixel Warr1024: sure, something like that sfan5: but what I mean is, do modders actually need dpi? Warr1024: Bottom line is obviously that I would want enough information to determine all the things that make sense to determine about a display, regardless of how it's provided. /g/: Just to get window screen details would suffice for alternate hud use Warr1024: Basically I need 1 number for one dimension, 1 number for the other dimension, and 1 number to map physical/pixel dimensions. I don't care all that much what numbers the protocol specifies, because it would only make sense for the API to provide all the other derived ones anyway. appguru: modders do need dpi appguru: I want to be able to provide elements with a certain aspect ratio appguru: For example, a circular scope appguru: DPI would be one possibility appguru: Another would be introducing CSS-like units like vh/vw rubenwardy: dpi doesn't give aspect ratio, it's a single number appguru: yeah I need aspect ratio too for my purposes appguru: there was an issue sfan5: the hud api requires you to know the dpi to make circular elements? sfan5: I can see that being true but if that's the case the api should just be fixed appguru: #7658 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7658 -- Expose client's current window size to Lua API Warr1024: Aspect informs how you would lay things out. Pixel dimensions inform how you would scale things to keep them displaying crisply. Physical dimension informs how you would lay something out to be touch-interactable. appguru: Unfortunately fixing the API is far from trivial appguru: And would most likely be pretty much breaking appguru: Or at least not compatible with older clients sfan5: obviously steveiRcvs: Hi. steveiRcvs: I want to extend the quarry's maximum depth. I made a technic.conf file in .minetest/worlds/(myworldname)/ with what I thought was the correct format for the conf file to edit it, but it's not working. steveiRcvs: How can I make the quarry actually dig a reasonable depth? Calinou: should we remove the +r mode from this channel? The freenode spam attack seems to be mostly over sfan5: I actually wanted to do that this morning but forgot sfan5: !op SoylentCow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minetest Jonathon: noticed that a few days ago and commented here, congrats SoylentCow: Zxcvbnm was trying to speedy-delete it apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Minetest&type=revision&diff=1006990862&oldid=1006912085 SoylentCow: he was the reviewer who rejected the last submission SoylentCow: i hope we'll never find out wth is going on there... Jonathon: i find his profile ironic Jonathon: > with an emphasis on creating new, high-quality articles on obscure/quirky yet notable subjects that most people would not pick up on, such as little-known indie titles, niche games, game characters, levels and items Jonathon: *his/her/etc GreenXenith: SoylentCow: On the contrary, I'd like to find out exactly what's going there so it can be fixed permanently. GreenXenith: Also there is a ton of uncited information that needs to be removed or cited (most of it isnt terribly citable though) SoylentCow: ha, what if it's in per brain? do we really want to go there? GreenXenith: If we can prove it is pure negative bias, we can probably ban the user from interacting with this article. SoylentCow: let's not discuss the content here in this chan, tempers rise SoylentCow: i would be more than happy to discuss the ways to improve this article on wiki or in private GreenXenith: What, the uncited stuff? GreenXenith: Its just policy but whatever GreenXenith: Fortunately we can both contest and remove the CSD notice because the user hasnt provided any reasoning and we do intend to fix current issues GreenXenith: And beyond that, there is no implied reasoning either since the "previous deletion discussion" occurred 9 years (read: almost a decade) ago. The article is substantially different and met notability requirements upon approval. GreenXenith: (that was G4) but I suppose G11 (Unambiguous advertising or promotion) could be called upon since a lot of the uncited stuff is questionable. Not likely though GreenXenith: Fortunately Notability is considered a non-criteria, so we are safe there. GreenXenith: The gameplay section needs serious attention though GreenXenith: A singular citation for 7 paragraphs worth of information is not good SoylentCow: a lot of that info is based on citeable portions of source code & official wiki, but these citeations were preventing leaving draft space GreenXenith: Now that it is approved, low-notability citations can be added SoylentCow: i think it's fine the way it is, anyone can check these things by looking through the minetest docs, or even through the article edit history GreenXenith: Thats not how Wikipedia works GreenXenith: If it isnt cited, it isnt usable, for most intents and purposes GreenXenith: You risk removal by not having enough citations GreenXenith: Better to have more less-notable citations than not enough of any GreenXenith: (Also there are plenty of general tweaks that could be done, ill get to those eventually) SoylentCow: we don't need to cite every single little bit, like water is wet? or the way we just used the word "the"? let's see if anyone complains, that's my motto SoylentCow: and it does not make much sense, for my money, that links which were not ok in draft are suddenly ok in main space SoylentCow: what we really need are high-quality links to recent reputable reviews SoylentCow: for now, the info is pretty well researched, and finding relevant sources is trivial SoylentCow: and if something is hard to verify, we just need to ax it GreenXenith: The one thing that sticks out to me is the "Sam Ain't Minecraft" thing GreenXenith: how is that in any way valuable GreenXenith: finding where that is stated is also pretty difficult GreenXenith: It is also technically irrelevant to Minetest itself GreenXenith: In fact the entire first part of the gameplay section is straight up incorrect because it is discussing Minetest Game GreenXenith: I do understand the sentiment of not including old unapproved citations GreenXenith: There are still other things that deserve inclusion though, such as CERN and IBM Qiskit Blocks GreenXenith: In any case, there are definitely improvements to be made. Jordach: with Craft the Web being a literal thing Jordach: alongside the IBM quantum experiments Extexo: `Added support for showing attached objects whilst in first person mode` Extexo: How do I enable this? Extexo: Is it something in set_attach? Jordach: set_attach(player, "bone_name or empty string", vector.new(), vector.new(), true) Extexo: Ty wheeler: Is there a way to hide the default server list? My 7 year old would like to play but I'd like to limit him to our LAN minetest server. rubenwardy: wheeler: Settings > All Settings > search for serverlist > set Serverlist URL to an empty string (ie: nothing) wheeler: awesome, thanks rubenwardy VanessaE: anyone awake? VanessaE: sfan5: *ping* VanessaE: ...actually a ping is what I'm looking for :) can someone IPv6 ping daconcepts.com and tell me if it work? sfan5 especially you, from the master list server VanessaE: works* est31: ping6 works fine for me VanessaE VanessaE: ok, and where are you (roughly) est31: should be close to the server VanessaE: so France? VanessaE: :) VanessaE: I'm adding to a trouble ticket for my server est31: not that close est31: but europe est31: actually my ping to your server is smaller than ping to sfan5's server lol VanessaE: heh VanessaE: can you please be more precise on your location? It may be important :) VanessaE: (just whatever passes for "state" level in your locale) est31: NRW (Germany) VanessaE: thanks. est31: yw VanessaE: btw, good to see you're still around :) est31: not much around minetest itself really VanessaE: amazingly I've had some inspiration to begin coding again, if only a little VanessaE: I'm sure you saw already, I'm resurrecting Dreambuilder Game. :) est31: oh nice VanessaE: and I see all 7 servers in the master list again, so I guess that means it's working for sfan5 even if he doesn't know it :D est31: good VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_game in case you want to look. WIP but very nearly ready. est31: ok est31: great to hear you're having fun est31: I think I'll go to bed now est31: bye VanessaE: night :) r1bnc: How do I implement to automatic reconnect  (no button to choose, just reconnect instantly) when you got "Connection timed out" or "Internal Server Error"?  found this code about the addition of the reconnect option https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/3b50b2766aeb09c9fc0ad0ea07426bb2187df3d7 r1bnc: I changed the code when you press the `ok` button to point to `btn_reconnect_yes` to reconnect everytime I click Ok. But I want to do is, to reconnect the player  instantly and not press any button for confirmation. This is at the file builtin/fstk/init.lua r1bnc: Found a way to make it work, Yay nephele: Hey, how should texture mapping work generally? I tried to make a .mtl and .obj file with the texture mapping defined, but this just causes some wierd wierd rendering of the node, where it seems to cul all faces facing toward me, but using tiles= makes all faces render correctly, but with the texture seemingly applied wrongly calcul0n__: nephele, no idea but minetest game sources contains the blender file for the default character, maybe it can help calcul0n__: in mods/player_api/models nephele: I gave up on trying to get blender running >.> nephele: maybe i can find the file the engine uses for it though * cheapie: leaves this machine here: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210227_041745.png cheapie: That is not a Tic-Tac-Toe machine mod, that is a rather overcomplicated Luacontroller project :P nephele: The chest open mesh has no materials whatsoever... huh nephele: only groups nephele: maybe it uses the groupnames for texture names somehow VanessaE: https://pastebin.com/y5YRvjT3 VanessaE: nephele: ^ VanessaE: obj material groups are how Minetest reads it, so grep "g " (g space) will show you the list. tiles{} must be in the same order. nephele: yes, i saw that. So it's just g directly mapped to tiles nephele: i'll try, thanks nephele: Is there some additional restriction on the naming of the groups? I have defined some, and added the same texture severall times to the tiles, but i still get a single colorer mesh (and a noisy drawing... hmm) VanessaE: the names are ignored. VanessaE: all that matters is their order. tiles{[1]} goes to whatever appears first, [2] to the second group, and so on nephele: Thanks :) nephele: I figured out what i was doing wrong VanessaE: 👍 sfan5: VanessaE: zero issues pinging your server from here sfan5: no idea if you got OVH to fix it but it's solved in any case VanessaE: I didn't. VanessaE: they still insist it's my machine and not their network VanessaE: meanwhile it's been going up and down all day VanessaE: it pings fine one minute, then 30m later or whatever, deader than 4 o'clock VanessaE: but you know what really burns my ass? VanessaE: at one point in the exchange, they explicitly said my configs look good, but then in the same proverbial breath, told me I should REBOOT the server into rescue mode just to be sure. VanessaE: sfan5: please make it make sense :) sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ VanessaE: heh VanessaE: sfan5: here, take a look: https://i.imgur.com/z31Cj3C.png sfan5: indeed looks entirely correct, but packets aren't going through VanessaE: well they weren't at the time anyways sfan5: so maybe a reboot fixed it (unless you didn't) or maybe OVH rebooted their router sfan5: some failures are unexplainable VanessaE: if anything was rebooted I'm not aware of it VanessaE: server has almost 2 years of uptime VanessaE: even more annoying: https://www.uptrends.com/tools/ipv6-ping-test VanessaE: (put in daconcepts.com and "start test") sfan5: haha what VanessaE: what what? :) sfan5: there's about 5 probes that say timed out, the rest is fine VanessaE: exactly VanessaE: now mouse over them VanessaE: the timeouts are in the middle of each respective traceroute, but the final hop to my server seems to always work sfan5: I don't think that's it sfan5: it says "Packets: Sent = 3, Received = 1, Lost = 2 (66.7% loss). " VanessaE: yes, but they're being lost mid-transit VanessaE: I just don't understand it sfan5: I couldn't tell you either VanessaE: is it reasonable to assume that whatever it is, it's upstream from my server? VanessaE: (I feel kinda bad for my remarks in the trouble ticket though. I was pissed off and no doubt sounded like a "Karen". sfan5: it's not impossible that kernel on your server is doing something??? weird and a reboot would have fixed it sfan5: other than that yes, I'd say this is on OVH's network VanessaE: maybe except that my server hasn't been rebooted :) sfan5: it's also not fully fixed if you believe that website sfan5: ...just that it somehow works from servers.minetest.net VanessaE: yeah. I take that site with a grain of salt, like those 'dns propagation' sites/tools that give you an A or AAAA record from a couple dozen sites around the world. VanessaE: well I already reported the up-and-down behavior in the ticket mazes_81: hi, I just watched the 5.5 milestone and saw that irrlicht version used by 5.5 will be the custom minetest fork. mazes_81: what will the custom fork support. (I already think about intl keyboard layouts) sfan5: we are thinking about integrating SDL2 which will probably fix various issues that exist with international layouts sfan5: no guarantees though Jordach: i mean if you're gonna fix controls, at least let mods be able to get the expanded key inputs for mods Jordach: i wouldn't mind a get_player_control_bindable() Jordach: ie, an extra 8 bits of keys Jordach: that and the option to change hotbar selection Jordach: ...it's really annoying to deal with the turned off hotbar for mobile and offer no way to swap held items rubenwardy: whether or not we use SDL is irrelevant for that rubenwardy: we could do that now rubenwardy: SDL allows for more reliable input on different platforms rubenwardy: so should fix copy/paste errors and various weirdness rubenwardy: and also allows better gamepad support sfan5: MT really needs an API that allows the server to lock the camera in a specific place or angle already rubenwardy: yeah adfeno: Hi there, on a server computer (no GUI), how to make a maps world.mt be populated with the currently available mods without actually creating the map.sqlite file ? Krock: sed Krock: create map, delete map.sqlite adfeno: Ah, I see adfeno: Thanks ;) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! sfan5: ls ../../mods | sed 's|(.*)|load_mod_\1 = true|g' >>world.mt sfan5: should work™ rubenwardy: You can just create a world folder with just world.mt rubenwardy: I used to do this with NBE sfan5: woops that requires sed -r appguru: it appears the IRC bridge used doesn't properly escape messages sent @GreenXenith adfeno: Hi there, now to fix: builtin/game/register.lua:182: bad argument #5 to 'register_item_raw' (table expected, got string) … register_node ? adfeno: Mod is at https://github.com/Lunovox/ceramics.git ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5 -- Fixed key names so the key set menu now works. by adamnew123456 adfeno: “how to fix”, I mean adfeno: I tried to get a glimpse of what that #5 argument is, even tried --verbose, but it doesn't tell much. ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5 -- Fixed key names so the key set menu now works. by adamnew123456 adfeno: I miss the GCC-like messages ;) Swift110-mobile: Hey all ghoti: Is there a machine parseable version of https://servers.minetest.net/? I seem to recall seeing this output in JSON at some point but I can't find it now. Jonathon: add /list Jonathon: https://servers.minetest.net/list ghoti: Ah, perfect. Thanks! Jonathon: np sfan5: adfeno: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=379451#p379451 adfeno: sfan5: Ah, thank you very much ;) VanessaE: ping? Jonathon: pong? VanessaE: ok MinetestBot: 02[git] 04savilli -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix hud_change and hud_remove after hud_add (#10997) 133edb1dd https://git.io/JtN3i (152021-02-26T20:21:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Keep mapblocks in memory if they're in range (#10714) 13225e690 https://git.io/JtN3y (152021-02-26T20:23:46Z) Bombo: hi Bombo: is there something like a guestbook? so players can write something, and their username + timestamp will be added too r1bnc: How do I implement something like automatic reconnect when you got "Connection timed out" or "Internal Server Error", currently looking for those strings in the minetest code. Also, which file contains the position of the Chat on screen? Thanks r1bnc: Which line and file on the minetest source code that defines the chat messages position on screen? GreenXenith: Finally GreenXenith: Bridge has SASL and autorejoin enabled now ... maybe stability will improve? GreenXenith: [Messages from ~6:00UTC to now were not bridged] GreenXenith: The only thing missed from the Discord side was buzz about 5.4, "offical" server, and apparently the Minetest Wikipedia article was finally approved. VanessaE: how do I change the colors of a formspec scrollbar that appears when a textarea[] needs it? (I mean the bar background, the scroll widget handle, and up/down arrows) VanessaE: this seems to be undocumented VanessaE: https://imgur.com/wCjcpUU.png here you can see it doesn't coordinate well with the rest of the form (I'm working on new theme handling for Dreambuilder) VanessaE: hell, I've searched high and low, my entire drive, every permutation I can think of, and I cannot find where those up/down arrows are even supplied VanessaE: I'm having a similar prob with the implicit "Proceed" button that gets added automatically to field[]. it does not react to my global colors (these colors alter the ESC menu just fine as well as most other forms that provide plain non-image buttons) {$username}: Minetest has been on Wikipedia for like 3 years or so {$username}: yes, the page was created in January 2018 celeron55: wait what, the wikipedia article was approved? * celeron55: stares at it in disbelief celeron55: how did that happen, did someone do something or was it a random decision by a random wikipedia editor? celeron55: ok, so, this seems badly written with too few sources celeron55: i bet it's going to be deleted again soon {$username}: I don't even like the claim that MT is a video game...it may be, but it' more like an engine to create games with celeron55: you can't claim anything on wikipedia celeron55: you find a source that claims something, and then write what your source tells you, and then link the source celeron55: this article doesn't do a whole lot of that luk3yx: VanessaE: Dreambuilder is getting themes? VanessaE: luk3yx: mostly yes. I'm transitioning it back to a standalone game VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_game VanessaE: it has not been deployed to my servers yet, but it's fairly complete. VanessaE: WIP. VanessaE: mostly just down to the scrollbars issue I mentioned (I figured out a workaround for the implicit "Proceed" button), the inventory slots refusing to hide fully, and I need to make some inventory images for a few nodes that lack them VanessaE: luk3yx: nu? eppes fur yomtov? gonna try it or not? :) rubenwardy: Implicit proceed button is only if you forget to specify a size VanessaE: rubenwardy: well not really VanessaE: it's not a matter of forgetting, rather seems intentional. Though I did have to tweak several of my mods earlier this morning to avoid it. VanessaE: that said, it wouldn't have been an issue if those implicit buttons would respond to style*[ commands. VanessaE: (I'd expect them to respond to the button_exit property but they don't) rubenwardy: Style type should work VanessaE: it doesn't. VanessaE: or it didn't for me anyway VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_game/-/blob/master/mods/dreambuilder_extras/customize-dreambuilder-game.sh#L248 VanessaE: those ^ all work for most things, even the ESC menu gets a treatment VanessaE: (I do the modifications via `sed` so that I don't have to maintain a custom mtg fork) {$username}: Approved fleck, thats what matters * LoneWolfHT: uploaded an image: image.png (7KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/HRNpATIOrzQynsDnLfvKoCXB/image.png > LoneWolfHT: @GreenXenith Your bot is brok {$username}: @GreenXenith GreenXenith: >Your bot is brok GreenXenith: Yep, forgot to re-apply my custom change after updating. adfeno: Hi, how to make minetest_game (subgame of minetest) pick up es (spannish) translation from minetest_game itself ? sfan5: if the files exist they should be used, there is nothing special you need to do adfeno: Is there any environment variable which controls this in some way (location of the files, whether or not to use then). adfeno: ? sfan5: your clients language needs to be spanish obviously rubenwardy: see Settings > All Settings > Language adfeno: Yes, I already set it to es. adfeno: I don't know if this is related, but doing minetest --verbose I see that the locale was set to C rubenwardy: are you playing in localplayer? adfeno: Yes, singleplayer rubenwardy: is MTG up to date? adfeno: 5.3.0 rubenwardy: did you compile with gettext (not sure this is needed?) adfeno: USE_GETTEXT=1 rubenwardy: well, there should still be es translations in 5.3.0 rubenwardy: cliche but: have you closed and reopened minetest? adfeno: I do know that for the main menu it will still be in english since I do have to find a way to make my copy of MT (main executable) understand where are its own .mo files) rubenwardy: yeah, the game and C++ translation systems are different rubenwardy: the C++ translation system requires a compile adfeno: … but I was thinking that, since mod locales *don't* use the gettext formats, I could tackle the mods issues first. rubenwardy: spanish works for me in MTG adfeno: OK, so it might be something on my setup, hm… sfan5: for ingame translations to work the "normal" translations need to work too adfeno: I wonder if any one here installed MT from Guix. adfeno: don;t worry, I'm also asking there for help adfeno: sfan5: hm… I see sfan5: if you run minetest --verbose it should give you some indication on whether it was able to locate its' locale files adfeno: So the message about locale set to C in --verbose is important after all adfeno: sfan5: will do that and inspect in more detail just in case adfeno: Altough Minetest is using STATIC_LOCALEDIR="/gnu/store/i38ca5c3dy9291yz4kz1gzmm6xapy0rl-minetest-5.3.0/share/locale" and I can conform that the only things there are folders with languages, including es, each with LC_MESSAGES/minetest.mo … it still says it's using C as locale. Bombo: hi Bombo: is there an addon for a book that everyone can write to? like a guest book ;) so if someone writes something their username will be saved luk3yx: VanessaE: Some dreambuilder_game UIs (for example the pause menu) darken the screen around them but others (such as the inventory) don't luk3yx: And the inventory list alignment breaks on smaller screens j45: sfan5: im currently unzipping the windows build you sent in dev irc to test it (64bit) j45: i joined a singleplayer world, no error messages, i also joined a server, there were also no error messages j45: edit: i got the error 2021-02-25 20:36:53: WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: Could not create ITexture, texture needs to have a non-empty name. (in debug.txt), nothing in chat j45: is sfan5 even here? j45: i posted it on github incase sfan5 isnt here IceDragon: Well that was fun, being kicked not for inactivity but for having my nickname unregistered, new policies in place? ssieb: IceDragon: there has been a huge amount of spam by bots recently, so I guess there's been a bit of lockdown IceDragon: Ouch, well I had to fire up the old weechat for this, because I couldn't figure out matrix to register my nick again sfan5: @j45 no idea where that warning comes from, but good to know that it works otherwise Extexo: Insidethebox #888 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/888 -- Anaglyph: selection box isn't done in 3d Extexo: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/730638913361805315/813922173012934666/Screenshot_2021-02-23-14-21-21.png Extexo: WIP Extexo: Lol ShadowBot Wuzzy: Boom! 5.4.0! Let's 5.4.0 Party! Wuzzy: I have updated the wiki for the 5.4.0 updates. it was not much work this time. LoneWolfHT: 🎉 Extexo: 🎉🎉🎉🎉 Extexo: It'd be cool if somebody could make a demonstration mod of the new features each update, so you can download the mod to see the new stuff 07s​kyliner_369: any good pointers to mods that give something akin to Minecraft's night vision... or just allow the darkest areas to not be... as dark? like some sort of server-side setting? Extexo: Not possible without post-processing Extexo: Oh wait Extexo: Like minecraft Extexo: Uhh I don't think so Glorfindel: I know you can adjust brightness client-side easily, but that wouldn't really help, unless you could set up the server to adjust users settings when it connects Extexo: I've seen people change the lowest light levels but that's for the whole server but that's global and from my understanding permanent VanessaE: there used to be a way to use a main menu background image in a game, with the clouds appearing behind the image wherever the image is transparent VanessaE: can someone remind me how? :) 10J​ordach: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L102 bingfengzs__: hey VanessaE: thanks, Jordach MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Use "Aux1" key name consistently everywhere 138272246 https://git.io/Jt57l (152021-02-24T10:45:30Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Deprecate not providing mod.conf 139f6167f https://git.io/Jt57u (152021-02-24T10:47:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Restructure teleport command code (#9706) 1392f4c68 https://git.io/Jt57z (152021-02-24T10:46:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04yamanq -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow toggling of texture pack by double clicking 13d51d0d7 https://git.io/Jt57P (152021-02-24T10:50:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Slap u64 on everything time-y (#10984) 13b5eda41 https://git.io/Jt55W (152021-02-24T11:05:17Z) sonomicheleya[m]: Hi, can I use https://github.com/exosite/lua-yaml to read a yaml file in a minetest mod? Or is there something else that allows it? sfan5: should work fine in principle sonomicheleya[m]: I don’t understand, and by the way I meant to parse a yaml file sorry sfan5: you can copy the yaml.lua file into your mod, load and it and use their api as normally sfan5: this approach works fine with most lua libraries sfan5: load it and* nly: yay cp -r ~/.minetest ~root/.minetest & minetest --server works sonomicheleya[m]: Oh ok thank you sfan VanessaE: how do I hide the inventory slots, in favor of a custom background image? e.g. in chests or furnaces sfan5: by not appending to the formspec, isn't that how it works? Gustavo6046: Does moretrees conflict/clash with ethereal anyhow? Gustavo6046: And do areas with default:tree trees mean that they were generated before moretrees being first loaded? VanessaE: sfan5: I don't understand :-/ VanessaE: I'm attempting to modify chest, furnace, and vessel formspecs through sed VanessaE: so I"m just inserting a line here or altering one there, but not changing anything about prepending or appending sfan5: oh I misunderstood VanessaE: (I'm doing it this way to avoid having to maintain my own fork) VanessaE: moment, I'll pastebin/screenshot one of the results sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2256 sfan5: you're looking for this then VanessaE: gah, now it doesn't want to dump the formspec :-/ VanessaE: ah ok VanessaE: it never occurred to me to look into thato ne. VanessaE: one* sfan5: I checked how MTG styles the slots inside the formspec prepend so that must be the one Gustavo6046: It seems that moretrees' generator does not like Ethereal's grove_dirt. VanessaE: Gustavo6046: moretrees doesn't generate anything. VanessaE: it just passes biome info to biome_lib Gustavo6046: VanessaE: biomelib does Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: still, all of the trees that spawn on grass only specify default:dirt_with_grass VanessaE: just alter the surface nodes in the biome defs for the trees you want to move. Gustavo6046: alright Gustavo6046: hmm, are rubber trees supposed to be this uncommon and hard to find? VanessaE: not really VanessaE: but no one's bothered to step up and propose a better biome def for them Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: VanessaE: "wet" biomes could have little ponds and murky pools, this would help satisfy the "nearby water" condition of rubber trees in more inland regions of the map Gustavo6046: not sure how else a "wet" biome (where rainforest trees would generally grow) could be discerned from a "non-wet" one Gustavo6046: I know there are "dry" biomes, like where acacias grow VanessaE: well, biome_lib doesn't have any concepts like that VanessaE: a biome def says *where* to grow, but whether those conditions are met depends on your mapgen Gustavo6046: ah VanessaE: so e.g. a small pond will still satisfy "wet" regardless of how it got there. VanessaE: as long as it's default:water_source VanessaE: (biome_lib doesn't recognize river water) Gustavo6046: mhm Gustavo6046: VanessaE: I wonder if there are trees endemic to the banks and surroundings of rivers Gustavo6046: :P VanessaE: dunno. Gustavo6046: VanessaE: so, rubber trees apparently also only grow in "warm" biomes (ie with a lower bound for temperature). VanessaE: yes Gustavo6046: What would those be? VanessaE: um Gustavo6046: I have seem many coasts with relatively low default_grass (between the requirements of -5 and 5), and near water of course VanessaE: I have no idea VanessaE: it's been way too long Gustavo6046: In places without snow or such Gustavo6046: I've boated quite a bit and haven't found a single rubber tree so far. Gustavo6046: But I know there msut be one, somewhere. VanessaE: maybe their biome should be reset to be the same as jumgle trees VanessaE: jungle* Gustavo6046: yeah, but also a bit closer to water Gustavo6046: to be fair I remember playing IndustrialCraft and rubber trees being a tad uncommon, too. Gustavo6046: Or at least not nearly as numerous as other kinds. VanessaE: perhaps yes. VanessaE: Gustavo6046: fork, make changes, merge request when you think it's right :) VanessaE: sfan5: still having a problem with the inventory slots. listcolors[] alters them but I can't seem to erase them entirely VanessaE: colors like #00000000 (8 zeros) should be fully transparent, right? ShadowBot: VanessaE: Error: That URL raised VanessaE: stfu, bot :P Gustavo6046: hmmm Gustavo6046: alright! :D Gustavo6046: VanessaE: I think I know what changes to do here sfan5: VanessaE: yeah I'd expect that to be transparent VanessaE: it ain't. :) VanessaE: or rather, if it is, there's yet another color that's shown, as though the colors specified in listcolors[] are overlayed on top of some hard-coded colored square Gustavo6046: weird, I still have that issue from before, where my character walks faster in some cardinal directions than others Gustavo6046: here they're slow going -Z Gustavo6046: also, weird Gustavo6046: I sighted a Draconis dragon (first time in the server, and I did go quite far) Gustavo6046: and it (or its attack) really made the server laggy for some reason Conradish006: Draconis is life cheapie: Hmm... you know your Luacontroller projects might be a bit overcomplicated when: A) they have to show a loading progress bar for a few seconds on startup, during which time they are indeed legitimately loading something, and B) there is a graphical screen available for said progress bar to be displayed on to begin with. cheapie: (it's some little graphical demo thing I made that scrolls a 64x64 gradient around on a 16x16 screen, yielding some nice color effects - on startup it has to generate that gradient image and load it into video memory, which it currently does as a series of 16x16 blocks) r1bnc: is there a setting on minetest conf to set the timezone on the debug.txt? luk3yx: r1bnc: I don't think there is but if you're on Linux (and maybe other platforms) you can run Minetest with the TZ= environment variable set r1bnc: The chat log CSM  or maybe minetest itself doesn't specify Timezone data on timestamps on the  debug.txt. I was trying to get the timezone info because i have an install of linux and windows, localtime and utc timezones. r1bnc: Ok. I found a way to interpret the logs and change the datetime using python. r1bnc: *timezone Ingar: r1bnc: change your windows install to UTC hardware clock, or change your linux to local time r1bnc: yep that is what I did r1bnc: I figured it out. thanks, I just used python to parse the debug.txt and convert the utc to local time. 04o​neplustwo: is it possible to unregister nodes? Krock: yes Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4476-L4479 04o​neplustwo: thx Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Ingar: as a customer service expert, you should replace "Next!" with "Ticket closed!" :p MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update translation files 13bbf4f7a https://git.io/Jt7xV (152021-02-23T18:19:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update minetest.conf.example and dummy translation file 13e86fbf9 https://git.io/Jt7xw (152021-02-23T18:03:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Reset Chinese translations to previous state 13f35b9be https://git.io/Jt7xr (152021-02-23T18:02:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04osoitz -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Basque) 13f0084d8 https://git.io/Jt7xo (152021-02-23T17:27:54Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MakerOK16 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Portuguese (Brazil)) 13b88015d https://git.io/Jt7xK (152021-02-23T17:27:54Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04savilli -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix wrong number of items in allow_metadata_inventory_put/take callba… 132968108 https://git.io/Jt7hg (152021-02-23T18:36:55Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update credits tab and mailmap 1335b476c https://git.io/Jt7hD (152021-02-23T18:40:44Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add script that sorts contributions for use in credits 1374a9354 https://git.io/Jt7hy (152021-02-23T18:40:44Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow overwriting media files of dependencies (#10752) 134abe4b8 https://git.io/Jt7hS (152021-02-23T18:39:15Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix keyWasDown in input handler 139b59b2f https://git.io/Jt7jv (152021-02-23T18:41:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ronoaldo -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Added Brazilian Portuguese translation (#2834) 13b6377a7 https://git.io/Jt5eo (152021-02-23T19:00:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add Lojban translation (#2835) 132c9733a https://git.io/Jt5eQ (152021-02-23T19:00:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Continue with 5.5.0-dev 1302d64a5 https://git.io/Jt5fW (152021-02-23T18:50:44Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Bump version to 5.4.0 13f3e51dc https://git.io/Jt5fl (152021-02-23T18:50:37Z) sfan5: !op sfan5: Minetest 5.4.0 release announcement >> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=26322 << sonomicheleya[m]: Hi, is there a way to automatically create a translation template file? Or do I have to write every string by hand? sfan5: for mod translations you mean? sonomicheleya[m]: Yeah sfan5: https://github.com/minetest-tools/update_translations supposedly works sonomicheleya[m]: Thank you, i'll try that after I start compiling minetest sonomicheleya[m]: It worked ty andirc5089: /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #pp /!\ Frosty: /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #pp /!\ woddf2Kw: /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ ShadowBot: woddf2Kw: Error: That URL raised woddf2Kw: /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ ShadowBot: woddf2Kw: Error: That URL raised woddf2Kw: /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ ShadowBot: woddf2Kw: Error: That URL raised woddf2Kw: /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ ShadowBot: woddf2Kw: Error: That URL raised woddf2Kw: /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ ShadowBot: woddf2Kw: Error: That URL raised sfan5: !op 11J​onathon: good grief ronoaldo: Is there a way to report these users so their ip get banned or something? sfan5: freenode should/will eventually take care of the spam ronoaldo: cool Fuchs: we did ronoaldo: For all Devs, congrats for the nice work and another milestone reached :) ronoaldo: Would it make sense to provide the AppImage builds from Gitlab as a Linux download option? Or perhaps point to the Ubuntu PPA from the Downloads page? LoneWolfHT: Appimage and Windows installers would be a nice thing to provide Extexo: What's the ITB channels name? I can't find it rubenwardy: #insidethebox Extexo: Ohh I thought it had - between words Gustavo6046: Weird Gustavo6046: my character goes faster on -X and -Z than +X and +Z Gustavo6046: And +Z is slightly slower than +X, too ZeroConfig: I have further tracked down my issue. 'sfinv_buttons' is not loading due to a folder permission issue. Steps taken: I deleted the folder. Re-downloaded fresh from github. Unzip to /mods/ folder, yet unlike other mods this one gets odd permissions. ZeroConfig: Other mods I've extracted get permission: drwxr-xr-x, but 'sfinv_buttons' has permissions: drwx----- ZeroConfig: chmod is permission ednied even with sudo ZeroConfig: *denied ZeroConfig: And those are the mod folder's permissions. ZeroConfig: What's everyone's favorite waypoint mod? 08a​ppguru: luk3yx's luk3yx: Hi 08a​ppguru: advmarkers, that is 08a​ppguru: I'd call it the adv_chat of chat mods but that could be understood as an insult luk3yx: My waypoint mod can only display one waypoint at once though 08a​ppguru: More than one gets messy anyways r1bnc: anyone here? 08a​ppguru: yes r1bnc: can I ask question regarding clientside modding? r1bnc: I was looking at the chatlog mod, it saves chat to a debug.txt file. But I plan to, instead of saving to txt file, just make a JSON POST request to a custom url. rubenwardy: r1bnc: the client-side scripting environment is strictly sandboxed because it's intended to run untrusted code rubenwardy: you can either 1) modify minetest's C++ code to add HTTP API etc 2) log to debug.txt and have another program that tails the logs and posts to the URL rubenwardy: 2) would be my recommendation r1bnc: 2) sounds easy rubenwardy: if you can compile Minetest, it will be a single line of code for 1 rubenwardy: but it's less compatible and breaks the sandbox a little rubenwardy: well, less portable r1bnc: I play on diff devices so, much non portable rubenwardy: yeah r1bnc: I can compile minetest r1bnc: I also have built the player log thing, it scrapes data from the serverlist JSON r1bnc: but now I wanted to scrape chats from my gameplays 05e​xe_virus: You'll want to follow how the minetest.chat_send_message gets handled and put a logging printf on the network whenever you receive such a packet r1bnc: Thanks ruberwardy and exe_virus for the responses. :D ar10ch: i keep getting "invalid usage" for //fixedpos set1 - what's the correct way? thanks :) sfan5: //fixedpos set1 12 34 56 ar10ch: ah! no commas - thanks sfan5! 08a​ppguru: yeah most minetest commands use pretty much only spaces as delimiters ar10ch: cool - it was right there in front of me i just couldn't see it.. lol daiNoZord: what's a good resource to learn making a simple projectile - like: flick a switch &.. torpedo - fire!!! sorta thing :) struggling understanding usage around velocity/acceleration etc atm daiNoZord: im thinking like minetest.add_entity, then get the players look dir.. and off it goes.. daiNoZord: I know there are a range (no pun) of weapons mods out there but they are either wrapped up in an api (of their own making or other) or otherwise just over-complicated for this experiment. Can't decipher the bits I need! I bet it's really simple.. * daiNoZord: thinks reducing the font size is the only way to make the to-do list shorter (haha) * daiNoZord: realises you can't spit your dummy out when you're wearing a face-covering.... daiNoZord: Would it be against any rules/licencing etc to create an animation based on the minetest engine? 08a​ppguru: based on the engine? 08a​ppguru: it would not be against any rules, but you might have to comply with the licenses of the assets you use 08a​ppguru: the character model for example is CC-BY-SA 3.0 IIRC and would require you to attribute the creators sfan5: daiNoZord: here's a quite minimal example of a projectile https://paste.debian.net/1186501/ 08a​ppguru: Many prefer implementing projectiles without entities 08a​ppguru: Note that you will have to override other objects collision functions to determine whether they collided LoneWolfHT: I'd promote my grenades API but it's a bit out of date compared to the CTF version MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Minimap: Fix default label translations 13bce875f https://git.io/JtQBd (152021-02-22T19:25:16Z) daiNoZord: well.. ya know with mtg etc. yeah .. i dread looking into licencing.. i'll have to do it someday. but.. it'll allb free anyway so prob copy the licence of the asset??? 08a​ppguru: I'd promote my grenades but they're unreleased lol sfan5: @appguru as long as your projectile entity is moving you don't need to mess with other entities' callbacks 08a​ppguru: huh? 08a​ppguru: what if both the projectile and the other entity are moving 08a​ppguru: will both report the collision? sfan5: the entity that touches the other due to movement will report it sfan5: this can be an issue if you shoot a faster projectile into the back of the slower projectile sfan5: ...but that seems quite a niche usecase sfan5: and btw the example code I have disables entity collisions because that needs a bit more consideration to work daiNoZord: thanks sfan5, i'm looking thru that 08a​ppguru: well, I'd always keep track of projectiles in a tablee 08a​ppguru: long range projectiles might leave active object range daiNoZord: is on_activate for an entity the same as on_construct for a node? (essentially?) sfan5: roughly daiNoZord: thanks :) 08a​ppguru: I'd love to be able to pass objects to on activate 08a​ppguru: on first activation 08a​ppguru: passing a serialized table is not good for performance 08a​ppguru: I could store it in a global variable sfan5: pass a key in a global table 08a​ppguru: yeah but that kinda smells :/ sfan5: if you use just one variable I don't know if the engine guarantees on_activate to be immediately called sfan5: table key is a very clean workaround IMO 08a​ppguru: hmm probably 08a​ppguru: would be nice to be able to pass an arbitrary object to on_activate though 08a​ppguru: probably on_activate should be split in on_add and on_load or something daiNoZord: ugg.. computer crashed b4.. I had a mod script open on the collision detection bit but geany never remembers... ah well i'll find it again! Krock: Notepad++ in wine 8) daiNoZord: thinkin that may be a good way to go - I installed it but never used it :) daiNoZord: I think this will be relevant for a few things on my mind.. but when u have something like placer:get_pos, and u want the entity spawn pos to be +2 in the look dir (obvs something like {x=pos.x+2} would potentially result in u shooting urself in the back lol). Is that a simple thing? rubenwardy: > I'd love to be able to pass objects to on activate rubenwardy: I call methods on the lua ent to do this daiNoZord: get_pos then placer:get_look_dir{} ... look_dir=look.dir+2? lol If only... daiNoZord: actually I may be overthinking it again... MinetestBot: kilbith: Nov-24 17:24 UTC no, inherited from PilzAdam. I don't know how to model. if I did, I had changed it to a shallower model long time ago daiNoZord: i broke my model. spent ages on it this morning - uv was there, then i animated it.. and tested - looked like crap! no animation and the uv was wrong.... oh..... i did all the work on a model then scaled it, and the armatures, up.... don't talk to me about models! I'm having a bad day lol sfan5: daiNoZord: you'd pos = vector.add(pos, vector.multiply(player:get_look_dir(), 2)) daiNoZord: why the disparity between model size and mob size? blender outputs the same thing daiNoZord: nice one thanks again sfan5 :) kilbith: an important information for `model[]` users: avoid to rely on the player model in use for the (in-world) game to get a preview of it. have a distinct player model whose unique purpose is to be viewed into a formspec. the reason for this (example): MTG uses a player model which is then overriden by `3d_armor`, you specify in your mod that you wanna use "character.b3d" in your model[] element, on the 1st opening, you will see the model from MTG (which is kilbith: loaded /before/ the 3d_armor model), the next times you will see the model from 3d_armor which is inconsistent. kilbith: Fleckenstein @ Discord ^ read this daiNoZord: Erm.. I made my own models.. I'm ok with that.. I don't get why a node is roughly equivelant to a blender "square" (assuming the node is "square") but then convert that model to a mob and it's a flea! daiNoZord: *equivalent.. my spelling is getting worse 03r​ubenwardy: @Fleckenstein kilbith: and I should add that if you see your model with a different lighting and/or an offset, these problems are *entirely* within the model itself (3d_armor for example has an offset internally), and not into model[] kilbith: the MTG player model is perfectly centered daiNoZord: also.. i export as obj.. but i tried b3d and the model just wasn't there(like when u get a model name wrong and theres a transparent 2x1 in front of you) but that's the plugin i guess daiNoZord: still.. little n large tho daiNoZord: hang on, hang on.. i think with blender u can scale by factor, right? I'd have to check. Is there a known factor between model and mob? some constant that could be useful? daiNoZord: Or is there better FOSS software for building minetest models / mobs ? daiNoZord: was that not a legitimate response to the posting of another member? hisforever: Wow I've looked at the Advantrains atc function and I'm confuzed even more lol hisforever: is there anybody that could help get my loop set up. I have set yp 2 rails north and south , with loops at each end. My stations are there too ar10ch: I just worked off the example(s) in atc_command.txt. That's as much as I know. hisforever: Thanks ae10ch Zughy[m]: I can't seem to understand how to use `^[sheet`. I want to retrieve the face of character.png, which starts at 8x8, but this doesn't work: `character.png^[sheet:24x24:8,8` Zughy[m]: or `16x16:8,8`, same thing sfan5: you're telling it that the texture is made of 24x24 blocks and you want to retrieve the one at pos 8,8 sfan5: which would be x=192, y=192 in the image 08a​ppguru: You could use [combine Zughy Zughy[m]: sfan5 so it should be 8x8:8,8 ? sfan5: that'd get you 8x8 pixels from x=16, y=16 sfan5: s/16/64/ actually sfan5: how big is the character face you want to retrieve? Zughy[m]: the default player_api character.png sfan5: 8x8 at 8,8 (and btw I asked because I didn't want to find out myself) sfan5: here's the solution: character.png^[sheet:8x8:1,1 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/serverlist: Improve table column sizing, template, CSS 13e37149a https://git.io/Jt9XC (152021-02-21T13:08:00Z) Zughy[m]: ty sfan5 Gustavo6046: Oh golly Gustavo6046: I just realized @appguru I forgot to /tphr you when you joined, I was busy most of the time you were in the server so we couldn't meet each other ingame lol Gustavo6046: Which means I couldn't show you the stuff I was working on (item physics) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix wrong reported item counts for inventory actions using Shift-Move… 13051e4c2 https://git.io/Jt9Ac (152021-02-21T19:02:23Z) Sven_vB: do we have some kind of confirmation message when new user registration on a server was successful? Sven_vB: (in the client, v5.3.0+) Krock: Sven_vB: on_newplayer or so Sven_vB: oh, I meant a GUI confirmation for the user that's trying to register. Krock: by letting them join the server, yes. Sven_vB: do you mean they're logged in automatically? Krock: yes Sven_vB: oh I see. thanks :) ZeroConfig: I'm trying to replace 'unified_inventory' with 'sfinv' and it's mods like 'sfinv_buttons' & 'sfinv_unified_inventory' but the later made by rubenwardy 4 years ago seems to be incompatible. Does Ruben or anyone know if this has been replaced by something newer? rubenwardy: You don't need sfinv unified inventory rubenwardy: it was a WIP mod to attempt to make a shim to allow mods that depend on UI to use sfinv instead ZeroConfig: Ok, well my buttons weren't showing up without it, but with it, too many buttons showed up, incompatible buttons from world edit. rubenwardy: Instead, you should installed craftguide, sfinv bags, and sfinv buttons ZeroConfig: I tried that and i wasn't seeing the 'more' tab or any of the other buttons. ZeroConfig: the original 'unified_inventory' showed quite a few other mod buttons, but I can't seem to get those to show with the sfinv. ZeroConfig: And I'm trying to replace original 'unified_inventory' for two reason's. 1. it was laggy, and 2. Ruben's recommendation per comments in Content DB. ZeroConfig: I just went back to the configuration you recommended above Rueb, and I'm still not getting the 'more' tab. ZeroConfig: *Ruben ZeroConfig: Tabs I see are: [Crafting] [Creative] [Skins] [Bags] [Awards] ZeroConfig: ..nothing else. sfan5: do the mods you are expecting in there advertise that they support sfinv? ZeroConfig: I don't think they do, that's why I thought using the 'sfinv_unified_inventory' took care of that. But Ruben said not to use that. ZeroConfig: Myabe my only choice is to go back to original 'unified_inventory' but it seems out of date, and it is laggy. ZeroConfig: ..or wait for other mod makers to update their code to work with sfinv? ZeroConfig: A lot of mods seem to be abandonware. ZeroConfig: An appeciated new feature, would be to have a way that dedicated servers and automatically check and update mods when new versions become released. The current solution seem to be checking each individual mod page on github and see if the authors made any changes, which is very time consuming. ZeroConfig: servers and = servers can* 11J​onathon: set up a repo of your mods on github with submodules and enable dependabot 11J​onathon: problem solved ZeroConfig: If there is such a command line or gui to do this please let me know. Thanks. 11J​onathon: see pandorasbox for a example of this ZeroConfig: I'm not familiar with dependabot or pandorasbox, can you link a url to read more? 11J​onathon: (and a daily cron job to sync the github repo to the server) 11J​onathon: https://github.com/pandorabox-io/pandorabox-mods 11J​onathon: https://github.blog/2020-06-01-keep-all-your-packages-up-to-date-with-dependabot/ 11J​onathon: dependabot doesnt care where your submodules are at ZeroConfig: Also why don't helpful features like this end up being added to the built-in features? 11J​onathon: 🤦 ZeroConfig: Thanks for the links, I'll read into it. ZeroConfig: Does smacking yourself in the face help, when I already mentioned I am not familiar with these, and yet you expected me to be? 11J​onathon: dependabot will not however assist you when people switch git hosts(and dont mirror existing) and do other stupid things ZeroConfig: I see, so it's still an incomplete solution. ZeroConfig: Even the ContentDB is out of date with it's packages. 11J​onathon: uh no, because you cant build a system to deal with every edge case 11J​onathon: also no wrong cdb ZeroConfig: You can if you are willing to spend enough time doing so, and have the programming skills to do so. rubenwardy: ZeroConfig: ContentDB isn't that much out of date 11J​onathon: cdb is either set up as a rolling release or tagged commits rubenwardy: yeah, ContentDB syncs with git, rubenwardy: some authors choose to disable this but I've enabled it for the popular mods 11J​onathon: >You can if you are willing to spend enough time doing so, and have the programming skills to do so. 🤦 ZeroConfig: I'm not saying all the packages are out of date, but some packages are. Compared with the github versions. rubenwardy: Anyway, using git + submodules is a good way to update mods is the best approach rubenwardy: Versions on github may not be intended for release yet 11J​onathon: ^this rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/dev_plays_minetest rubenwardy: I use it for my server with an update script https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/dev_plays_minetest/-/blob/master/update.sh ZeroConfig: Jonathon: IF you keep smacking yourself in the face you could suffer brain damage, and then you won't be able to help anyone. 11J​onathon: then stop making me facepalm ifyour so concerned 11J​onathon: *if your ZeroConfig: No one can make you do something, all actions are controlled from the self. 11J​onathon: eh ZeroConfig: Thanks Johnathon and Ruben, I have some reading to do. 11J​onathon: also, to address your point, you could write a bot that figures out when people move repos, but then you would be super ripe for getting stuck on outdated forks, or supply chain attacks 11J​onathon: basically not a good idea ZeroConfig: Jonathon: So you'd have to find a way to programmatically overcome those obstacles as well. ZeroConfig: But the word "can't" is not the correct word. 11J​onathon: ill wait for the day you do so ZeroConfig: Perhaps difficult would have been a better choice. ZeroConfig: That kind of attitude is not helpful. ZeroConfig: The only limits are one's own imagination and ingenuity. 11J​onathon: lol, yeah good luck with that ZeroConfig: Good luck with your poor attitude on possibilities. ZeroConfig: If one doubts they can accomplish something, then they never will. 11J​onathon: theres a simple solution, people setting up a mirror if they move git hosts, but that requires work, or they left the platform because they dont agree with it 11J​onathon: between a mixture of those 2, most people dont do so 11J​onathon: either way, its a thing outside of your control rubenwardy: There is an issue for creating a command line interface for ContentDB rubenwardy: also, people changing hosts happens rarely and not worth worring about too much. You can just change the upstream URL in that case 11J​onathon: ^exactly rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7358 11J​onathon: https://xkcd.com/1205/ sums it up nicely SaveSaveSave: So I want to help minetest development, so 5.4.0 can be considered stable sooner - is there a list somewhere with show-stoppers? SaveSaveSave: I saw https://github.com/minetest/minetest/projects but that seems more like general feature tracking sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/17 nly: can i run server without gui? deltanedas[m]: yes heavygale: yes nly: nice Wuzzy: an user just complained of possible vandalism in the Chinese translations: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=390532 Wuzzy: claims that Weblate user TPImage is doing damage to the Chinese translation. What to do? rubenwardy: Weblate has no ban feature Wuzzy: WTF rubenwardy: Only thing that can be done is to keep reverting commits 09s​rinivas: is it possible to move out of weblate? Wuzzy: rubenwardy: when you are in the project settings tab, is there a button named "Access"? sfan5: there is not sfan5: oh there is actually but we cannot change it 09s​rinivas: only c55 can? sfan5: no "You do not have permission to change project access control. Check your billing status" 09s​rinivas: ah sfan5: even if we could, we do not want to lock out contributors for all languages 09s​rinivas: nothing like a commercial product sfan5: as a F(L)OSS project weblate hosting is being provided to us for free 09s​rinivas: but in a nuked manner (is it not)? Wuzzy: can anyone verify the claims of vandalism? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=390532 Wuzzy: or at least, the claims of "damage" to the translation 09s​rinivas: i speak no chinese, sorry sfan5: since that is the same user who spam-created hundreds of languages inside the weblate project (weblate had to delete them for us later) I briefly looked into the changes and found no obvious vandalism sfan5: if look at https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/minetest/minetest/zh_Hant/#history you can easily see the changes he's referring to Wuzzy: oh, this user is known to do "funny" things? ugh 09s​rinivas: i have requested a person i know who is native to have a look, here goes nothing sfan5: looking at the translation for "Julia y", neither the new (人體藝術) nor the old one (嫩穴) make any sense when I look them up sfan5: and by the way, here are existing imported changes from that user https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits?author=Pantyhose-X 11I​hrFussel: Not having a basic ban/block feature on such a big platform is kinda backwards if you ask me...and in case you have to pay for that feature I would even call it a scam 05e​xe_virus: "big platform" != free i.e. why would you expect a big platform to NOT make you pay for a key feature? 11I​hrFussel: For basic features I see this as very backwards still...I wouldn't call blocking users a premium one rubenwardy: They don't have that feature at all rubenwardy: It's not paid for rubenwardy: What you can do is make projects invite only, we can't do that only because we don't have admin access to it rubenwardy: We could email support for that rubenwardy: https://github.com/WeblateOrg/weblate/issues/3040 Fleckenstein: Is it possible to change the hand tool capabilities of a connected player? rubenwardy: Yes, you can use meta or replace the hand item rubenwardy: See the hand list Fleckenstein: its about the tool capabilities Fleckenstein: the hand list has only visual effects rubenwardy: It should be used to get tool caps Fleckenstein: it does not Fleckenstein: to change the toolcaps of the hand usually the ':' item is overwritten rubenwardy: There's a bug here then Zughy[m]: is there a way to trim a texture with a modifier, e.g. obtaining just the head of the default character.png texture? Fleckenstein: i think [sheet can be used for that but not sure Krock: [sheet or [combine (on a dummy background) Krock: nvm. [combine does not crop Zughy[m]: ...huh, weird name, it's not even a verb. Crop or trim would have made more sense Krock: that happens when non-native English speakers design something sfan5: combine isn't a word? Krock: (sheet isn't a verb) Krock: but like half of the modifiers aren't verbs either Zughy[m]: can I open an issue asking for a refactor without losing compatibility? Krock: Zughy[m]: you can but I doubt anyone would care about naming as long it works Krock: also compat has to be ensured anyway for this kind of API rubenwardy: Sheet will have come from sprite sheet Gustavo6046: Are object velocity and acceleration serialized? Or do I need to manually write code to save it in get_staticdata and load it in on_activate? rubenwardy: yes rubenwardy: they're serialized Gustavo6046: Ah, okay Gustavo6046: Whew, thanks! Gustavo6046: Krock: little did I know the rabbit hole I was getting myself into, heh. https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/builtin_item/pulls/3 Krock: Gustavo6046: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server/luaentity_sao.cpp#L271-L301 Gustavo6046: And I'm glad I did! Krock: what Gustavo6046: Wait whoa Gustavo6046: lol Krock: dude what just happened Gustavo6046: almost the same time :o Gustavo6046: yeah what Gustavo6046: like Gustavo6046: lol Gustavo6046: not the first time I've experienced weird coincidences like that on IRC :p Krock: 80 commits. not bad lol Gustavo6046: oh Gustavo6046: Heh, I suppose. There were some slightly headachy moments, but I still got it to work in the end. Gustavo6046: Debugging Lua isn't always easy :p Krock: seems to me that the builtin code helped quite a lot there Gustavo6046: Krock: the ground check one? Gustavo6046: Yeah, that's one of the many changes I did Gustavo6046: There were more issues than just that lol Krock: well then. congrats. Krock: I see that Tenplus1 already noticed it. good chances to get it merged Gustavo6046: Aw, thanks! Gustavo6046: Krock: this is the second time I submit a physics update Gustavo6046: I was originally including a code refactor as a 2nd PR, but due to merging concerns I decided to just merge both into a single PR right away. Gustavo6046: The code looks cleaner now as a result! Gustavo6046: This made me realize how easily I can squash bugs when they occur, and narrow down the causes of symptoms in code like, in this case, the broken physics. (The last little bunch of commits was just me fixing physics and such.) Gustavo6046: Skills I've learned with years of amateur programming, I guess having a hobby since a young age definitely pays off. Gustavo6046: Gee, I can't wait to turn 18 in May. Krock: May the fourth be with you Gustavo6046: Haha! Gustavo6046: It's in the sixteenth, though! Krock: gonna visit you and bring my chainsaw Gustavo6046: Sure, sure. Krock: it's gonna be a funny afternoon Gustavo6046: Yeah, lots of balloons to pop with that bugger. Gustavo6046: Anyways, Krock, before both these updates, item physics were boring. Not only that, they weren't very practical; items did not conserve momentum, so all waterflow did was push them alongside the top surface of the nodes covered by flowing water. And to think original reason of all this was that water wasn't pushing items the way I wanted. Gustavo6046: Now acts behave in a very nice way, with configurable water force, water drag, ground friction, and even air drag. Krock: so you need acceleration (for friction) and velocity Gustavo6046: I actually rewrote the water drag at least once to make it more realistic. Krock: ah yes tht Gustavo6046: I only need acceleration, for the most part. I only set velocity directly when merging item stacks, I merge the velocities as well. Gustavo6046: Oh, the way I rewrote drag, because the one I added in the 1st PR kinda sucked, in this one the new drag is a bit more realistic, because instead of dividing velocity, I apply a force on the opposite direction of the difference between the item entity's current velocity and the velocity of flow of water. Gustavo6046: I accumulate an acceleration vector, so that most item physics are forces (i.e. acceleration, since items have no discernible mass, and F = ma), rather than modifying velocity directly. Gustavo6046: I'm already testing the new changes in mouses.xyz port 30000. That's where I usually play, mind you, but if you want to quickly see the new item physics, one quick way is to join! :) 08a​ppguru: random reminder you can mostly get rid of z-fighting by adding a small random bias: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/builtin_item/pulls/5 Gustavo6046: ah, thanks! 08a​ppguru: np 08a​ppguru: I'm LMD btw Gustavo6046: ohh, okay Gustavo6046: 10+1 must be wondering where all the sudden attention to his builtin_item came from :P Gustavo6046: Krock: while I was pushing all those commits, I imagined him pulling them and testing them and huffing and panting as he struggled to keep up with all the pushed commits XD Gustavo6046: btw @appguru the server was using my PR #3, I think your changes applied to master? ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3 -- Furnace segfault Gustavo6046: mind if I merge them or something? 08a​ppguru: I don't mind rubenwardy: Wuzzy, sfan5: someone (probably sfan5?) contacted support, that user has now been banned from weblate completely Wuzzy: ooff Wuzzy: hopefully the translations were indeed wrong sfan5: not me Wuzzy: oh. i did contact support Wuzzy: important bit from the response: "I suspended the user for now. The maintainers of the project can do the Git revert to get rid of the malicious translations." Wuzzy: ah, forum users just told me the person in question used a lot of sex-related language. sounds like a troll Wuzzy: Crisis averted, I guess... ZeroConfig: I'm trying to use the 'CraftGuide' recommended by Ruben on the ContentDB, and it's telling me: "Your Minetest Client is outdated. Get the latest version on minetest.net to use the Crafting Guide." I checked the site and it shows the latest version is 5.3.0 which I am already using. Is this message an error or do I need some unavailable to the ZeroConfig: public newer version? ZeroConfig: I found the section of code responsible for the error: ZeroConfig: Well apparently I can't upload the text. So instead I'll just link to the entire code: rubenwardy: you need to download an older version ZeroConfig: https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide/blob/master/init.lua [lines 175 to 187] rubenwardy: the latest version of craft guide only supports 5.4.0 rubenwardy: if you install through the client, it'll get the correct version ZeroConfig: I'm running it on a dedicated server, how do I install those through the client? rubenwardy: ah right rubenwardy: try git checkout https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide/ -b 1.14.3 rubenwardy: oops rubenwardy: try git clone https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide/ -b 1.14.3 ZeroConfig: ok. Should I try to get 5.4.0 client for my other pc? Although I guess that wouldn't help anyone else using the server, unless they have 5.4.0 also. ZeroConfig: Will 5.4.0 be public soon? on minetest.net? rubenwardy: in the next week or so ZeroConfig: Ok, that will solve a lot. ZeroConfig: Hopefully Archlinux will be quick to update, they don't usually take too long. ZeroConfig: Is the server going to need to be 5.4.0 also, or just the clients? ZeroConfig: Because my server is on Debian, and Debian takes ages to update. rubenwardy: Just clients I think ZeroConfig: I had to backport to even get 5.3.0 server on Debian, they were still offering a much older version. rubenwardy: I also host on debian, but I build minetest myself. Because I use modifications rubenwardy: jesus, still 0.4.17 rubenwardy: terrible ZeroConfig: Yeah. That's what I mean lol 09s​rinivas: !tell sfan5 09s​rinivas: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/812823241751003216/Screenshot_from_2021-02-21_04-38-48.png 09s​rinivas: the translations appear to have been vandalized Zughy[m]: HAHAHAHAHAHA rubenwardy: That person has been banned already 09s​rinivas: ah, pardon me, i was asleep Wuzzy: 5.4.0 doe not exist. yet. sfan5: @s​rinivas thanks for the info 09s​rinivas: np Gustavo6046: ArchLinux has 5.3.0 as latest Gustavo6046: 5.4.0 is out? Gustavo6046: stable? Gustavo6046: o.o 09s​rinivas: afaik, no Gustavo6046: oh ok Gustavo6046: whew 09s​rinivas: hehe 09s​rinivas: arch linux still has the latest if thats what you are asking Gustavo6046: yeah Gustavo6046: I know Gustavo6046: yet mine is 5.4.0-dev-6d7067fd3 Gustavo6046: I like custom-building my stuff idk why 09s​rinivas: try gentoo :p Gustavo6046: :< Gustavo6046: nu hisforever: Hi after a advtrain gets an atC comand is there a way to over ide it? hisforever: Ide =ride ar10ch: I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by using atc cheapie: Well, this might just be the most confusing floor layout I've made in a building in MT so far, thanks to various split-level stuff going on... cheapie: 4 floors - LD, 1, R1, and R2, in that order. R1 is only 1m above 1. cheapie: But then the stairs (due to their unusual layout) reach R1 *before* 1, so if you're on the stairs the order of the floors appears different from if you take one of the elevators... cheapie: Making things *even worse*, LD and 1 open on the rear side of the elevators, so they get an "R" suffix in there... so the buttons have two adjacent floors labeled "1R" and "R1" 05e​xe_virus: yuck 05e​xe_virus: Could do full descriptive names 03f​atalerror420 (seared): "Hi after a advtrain gets an atC comand is there a way to over ide it? Ide =ride" should i call 911? mazes_81: Hi, just a small remind about lua, when I print some boolean it says" false", however the test "if this_guy == true" is positive, when "if this_guy" is negative mazes_81: it's seems weird to me. This behavior was detected in 3d_armor_flyswim mod, and leads to not being able to apply correctly settingstype.txt pgimeno: if you print type(this_guy), does it print boolean? mazes_81: I fixed locally but still hesitate to open bug upstream LoneWolfHT: If you want to check whether or not a number is positive do >=0, don't compare it with a boolean pgimeno: I don't believe it is like you've described, mazes_81. You must have made a mistake. mazes_81: this_guy is initialised by minetest.setting_getbool (deprecated so weird for recent mod), maybe it does not guarantee bool mazes_81: that's why I say something is eird mazes_81: weird* rubenwardy: please show example code rubenwardy: because I don't know what you mean pgimeno: 'if this_guy == true' can ONLY be true ("positive" as you say) when the variable contains the boolean value true pgimeno: however, 'if this_guy' can be true whenever this_guy is something other than false or nil pgimeno: are you sure you didn't swap those? mazes_81: type(this_guy) is nil mazes_81: value this_guy is false pgimeno: if it's nil, it means that 'if this_guy == true' can NEVER match LoneWolfHT: minetest.settings:get_bool("this_guy", true) LoneWolfHT: If you want true to be the default setting value mazes_81: yes, I think new function will guarantee return type deltanedas[m]: nil is a falsy value mazes_81: so I can prepare my pr, thanks pgimeno: nil is always a valid return value. get_bool is documented to return nil when the configuration variable does not exist. mazes_81: or even just fill a bug without pr, as it is really "easy fix" mazes_81: so better to test only "this_guy" instead of "this_guy == true" mazes_81: and update code to classes call also mazes_81: the 3d_armor_flyswim code is full of "those_guys == true" test deltanedas[m]: is there a defined way to see if a blocks inventories should be accessible? deltanedas[m]: e.g. for a furnace the fuel and input should be fully accessible, but the output is take-only pgimeno: unfortunately it's very common to see novel programmers comparing booleans to true or false instead of just checking them, which doesn't work so well for languages with dynamic types like Lua pgimeno: anyway, it's unclear to me what the purpose really is mazes_81: another question about settingstype.txt: can we have it per world (I just see game and mod on the wiki, so I guess it's not possible) pgimeno: if this_guy is nil, then neither 'if this_guy == true' nor 'if this_guy' will be true mazes_81: no this guy is good value, however type(this_guy) is nil pgimeno: well, if type(this_guy) is "nil", then neither 'if this_guy == true' nor 'if this_guy' will be true pgimeno: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/lua-this_guy.txt mazes_81: if this_guy succeeds, when if this_guy == true fails. I guess "if this_guy" <==> if "not empty(this_guy)" 08a​ppguru: lua ain pgimeno: in Lua, values are always true except when they are either false or nil 08a​ppguru: 't PHP 08a​ppguru: truthy* 08a​ppguru: if you want to check for truthiness or nil, you can do value == true or value == nil mazes_81: this_guy is not nil, only type this_guy pgimeno: the only value with type "nil" is nil pgimeno: there are no other values with type "nil" 08a​ppguru: ^ mazes_81: this_guy = minetest.setting_getbool("this_guy") 08a​ppguru: I already expected that 08a​ppguru: see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L6775 08a​ppguru: get_bool expects a default value 08a​ppguru: you are passing nil pgimeno: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/0.4.14/doc/lua_api.txt#L1946 08a​ppguru: so it will return nil if the setting is not passed pgimeno: * `minetest.setting_getbool(name)`: returns boolean or `nil` 08a​ppguru: s/passed/present mazes_81: ok, that seems enough to me, update functions, and do not test with == true 08a​ppguru: oof I linked the wrong thing 08a​ppguru: pgimeno is right 08a​ppguru: but you should use minetest.settings:get_bool(name, default) 08a​ppguru: owait, this is MT 0.4? mazes_81: appguru, the mod initialises default value, a bit after, testing == nil case pgimeno: I assume the mod is made for 0.4 because it uses setting_getbool instad of settings:get_bool mazes_81: so another thing to fix pgimeno: mazes_81: it seems to me you're not on the right path, but if you don't show the code, there isn't much we can do to understand where the problem actually is and give better advice mazes_81: this_guy = minetest.setting_getbool("this_guy"); if this_guy == nil then this_guy = true; mazes_81: https://github.com/sirrobzeroone/3d_armor_flyswim/blob/main/init.lua pgimeno: what line? pgimeno: there is no 'this_guy' in that page mazes_81: line 68 mazes_81: those_guys, are all minetest.setting_getbool in fact mazes_81: sorry, I thought it was clear that 'this_guy' was just a sample pgimeno: so, when the setting does not exist, it is overridden with true mazes_81: it always exist, unless someone edit settingstype.txt from mod pgimeno: no, it doesn't exist unless someone adds it to minetest.conf deltanedas[m]: settings is like a table deltanedas[m]: its nil by default deltanedas[m]: thats it deltanedas[m]: use settings:get("key") and default_value if you want a default mazes_81: wait, settingstype.txt, from the mod directory is not parsed ? pgimeno: they are not settings, they are definitions of settings deltanedas[m]: it is deltanedas[m]: how else does the game know what settings should be? deltanedas[m]: engine* mazes_81: ok, pgimeno, deltanedas[m] it is not properly parsed, but the setting interface still parses it mazes_81: "settings interface will show default value from settingtypes.txt but minetest.settings:get will return nil". (from the wiki), I also missed this part mazes_81: deltanedas[m]: the game do not care about settingstype.txt (I thought like you, my bad for this question). deltanedas[m]: engine does deltanedas[m]: its parsed for types, description and name deltanedas[m]: how else can you configure it mazes_81: only interface not engine pgimeno: the settings themselves are in minetest.conf, not in settingtypes.txt pgimeno: settingtypes.txt contains the types for each setting, as the name implies mazes_81: so I should read wiki more accurately before asking questions (still the exact reason only appears on the new functions page) 10L​apis Lazuli Wolf: This mod always crashes. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix world-aligned node rendering at bottom (#10742) 13e441ab9 https://git.io/JtyhQ (152021-02-19T18:45:36Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fail gracefully if main_menu_script has bad value (#10938) 13c12e9cd https://git.io/Jtyjj (152021-02-19T18:59:48Z) w0wbagg3r: Hi. Can somebody help me? I installed Minetest and followed this guide to install mobs_redo... https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 w0wbagg3r: but when I create a game it does not show any animal sfan5: did you install mobs_animal? sfan5: and enable it? w0wbagg3r: yes w0wbagg3r: in the mods folder of minetest I have: mob_horse/ mobs_animal/ mobs_monster/ mobs_npc/ and mobs_redo/ w0wbagg3r: never mind, I found the issue...thanks anyway Swift110-mobile: hello all Sven_vB: no. as I said, when I omit the --name option, I have empty inventory. this probably because then my previrous multiplayer login name is used: "ACTION[Server]: Sven [127.0.0.1] joins game. List of players: Sven" Sven_vB: for comparison, when I launch singleplayer mode via the main menu, it says "ACTION[Server]: singleplayer [127.0.0.1] joins game. List of players: singleplayer" Sven_vB: however, when I use "--name singleplayer", it says "ACTION[Server]: Server: Player with the name "singleplayer" tried to connect from 127.0.0.1¶ ERROR[Main]: Access denied. Reason: Player name not allowed.¶ ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down" Sven_vB: with "--name ''", it says "ERROR[Main]: Please choose a name!" Sven_vB: so I'm out of ideas for now Sven_vB: oh, and for the successful attempt via main menu, I do have my inventory. Sven_vB: rather, I have my items in it. Sven_vB: sfan5, LoneWolfHT, do I need another option to whitelist the username "singleplayer" maybe, or an option to run the server in the same process? 07s​kyliner_369: so I was being nostalgic for a texture pack that hasn't been updated since MC 1.10.x and I was wondering if there were any good texture packs that feel nearly the same as that texture pack. the pack is called the "Painterly Pack" (found here: http://www.painterlypack.net/ ) any good recommendations? LoneWolfHT: What's your Minetest version Sven_vB ? `minetest --worldname asd --go` works fine for me (Logs me into the world 'asd' as 'singleplayer' sfan5: Sven_vB: perhaps this only works correctly in 5.4.0 then maniek207: hi maniek207: I got idea of Minetest Manhunt: Somebody speedruns to get diamonds/mese while hunters chase him Danny[m]: It will require quite a lot of planning for a fair and easy experience. But sounds interesting Sven_vB: LoneWolfHT, still MT 5.3.0 on Ubuntu focal Sven_vB: yeah I guess I should try 5.4.0 then MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EliasFleckenstein03 -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace deprecated call to add_player_velocity in builtin (#10968) 13b2ab5fd https://git.io/JtDiI (152021-02-18T14:39:04Z) Conradish006: ~cdb Draconis 11J​onathon: you cant call minetest bot from irc or discord in the irc channels 🤦‍♂️ 08a​ppguru: ~cdb Draconis 08a​ppguru: had to test LoneWolfHT: formspec_version[4] isn't setting real_coordinates[true] LoneWolfHT: Oh, it has to go before size[] to set it Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! rubenwardy: hyyppeee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2tKigOPBU Krock: isn't there a livestream? rubenwardy: there is, that starts soon rubenwardy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0b_ijaYMQ daiNoZord: That's cool sfan5: !title MinetestBot: No title found. sfan5: > Watch NASA’s Perseverance Rover Land on Mars! Krock: MTB is just drunk. don't blame them rubenwardy: https://eyes.nasa.gov/apps/mars2020/#/home rubenwardy: awesome rubenwardy: tip: click LIVE LoneWolfHT: Gonna plug my favorite channel for space stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPXuw8SJfFI&ab_channel=EverydayAstronaut Gustavo6046: Do items have related weight information? Krock: no Gustavo6046: ah okay 04j​45: Perseverance landed! ar10ch: Uncle Sam's On Mars (teehee.. there's a song about that.. lol) daiNoZord: it's not really o-t, it's lua: has anyone used solar2dtux? I'm curious about learning lua in various environments. Think I dl'ed the wrong thing tho.. hisforever: Hi I have a Problem I have to import an image so I'll beb ok hisforever: ok here is the image https://imgur.com/a/7dpqtuo hisforever: I want to male trains run with atc controls but know nothing about coding hisforever: any help would be great hisforever: I have two stations on a North and south with a loop end at both ar10ch: advtrains? ar10ch: For a train to go from station A and STOP at station B, then continue back (loop) to station A again, OR - go from station A to station B and return BACK to station A needs no coding. The tools are in the mod. That's if its advtrains. hisforever: Thanks arl0ch pgimeno: I'm trying to run a local InsideTheBox game, but it crashes after showing this error: 2021-02-19 00:47:21: ERROR[Server]: db.box_get_data(0): no such box meta pgimeno: any idea how to fix that? does it expect the database to be pre-filled or something? pgimeno: sofar? pgimeno: has anyone succeeded setting up a local ITB game? Gustavo6046: People still use Pipeworks? Gustavo6046: Is it compatible with Tubelib? Gustavo6046: How do the two compare? Gustavo6046: And what is the state of the art for automatic items transport? Conradish006: Pipeworks is the best Gustavo6046: mhm Conradish006: Especially the lua controlled tubes SwissalpS: If possible, I prefer a combo of Lua Controller with Digiline Detector tubes over Lua Sorting Tubes. The Lua Tubes have a weird way of reversing output events and sometimes simply fail. It seems they can't load Lua part as fast as the items in tubes load. 05e​xe_virus: apparently it is possible to force disable the "enable damage" setting, does anyone know how to do so? 07J​oSto: It may see that a bit biased, but: - pipeworks has the better visual animation which helps when looking for errors in the construction - tubelib is more server friendly because "lean and efficient" was the first design goal Zetta1Reid0: Wanna ask . Why doesn't minetest support C++ modding anuke[m]: 1. malware because why would a player check the source code before downloading a fishy library anuke[m]: 2. having to compile for many platforms Zetta1Reid0: You can get malware from lua code too . Dont forget you can use non minetest code too in lua script. Also user wont check code either way anuke[m]: yeah but youd have to disable sandboxing for that mod anuke[m]: if you do that without reading the code you pretty much deserve to get rm -rf /*'d or whatever * Scarecrow: is not going to compile mods for musl-arm Scarecrow: anything that requires engine-level abuse should be exposed in a general way to the environment mods run in anyway blaise: lol Zetta1Reid0: Even if regular users do read the code , do you think they will understand anything . Except if programmer didnt put a big comment "here starts driver erase" :D Zetta1Reid0: Anyways from Security point it is unsecure for sure . But c++ gives you access to all code . Not just 1 developer exports to lua rubenwardy: Lua mods are sandboxed rubenwardy: the main reasons are needing to compile for many problems, unstable C++ ABIs, and a preference for Lua Gustavo6046: :o Gustavo6046: my changes were merged 05e​xe_virus: Zeta: the lua is sandboxed for sure, the only endpoints that could currently allow issues are c++ functions we have exposed to lua 05e​xe_virus: Lua is used professionally like this all the time, even luaJIT rubenwardy: "But c++ gives you access to all code" How's is reflection in C++? I'm not sure this is true 08a​ppguru: You can already mod in C++ 08a​ppguru: All you got to do is fork the engine :] 05e​xe_virus: C++ has no built in reflection 05e​xe_virus: C++ doesn't really "mod" well rubenwardy: I didn't think so 05e​xe_virus: You can "patch" executables rubenwardy: one area that C++ mods would be good at would be with mapgen rubenwardy: as they're mostly self contained and need good performance rubenwardy: you'd expose a C API for good ABI 05e​xe_virus: We could do a better job of exposing the mapgen to lua sfan5: the sane way to do native mods is to expose a clearly specified API in C just like with Lua sfan5: no mucking around with engine internals rubenwardy: in which case, it doesn't allow you to do more sfan5: yeah, not more just better rubenwardy: for a truly powerful C++ API, you'd need a more modular and datadriven structure. And perhaps compiled in mods rubenwardy: that's not going to happen 05e​xe_virus: It can't, basically 05e​xe_virus: Without being completely insecure rubenwardy: well yeah, that's implied rubenwardy: we don't even allow Lua bytecode 05e​xe_virus: For good reasons 05e​xe_virus: That's the most** insecure 05e​xe_virus: What if we exposed mapgens to shaders ... rubenwardy: interesting idea to use compute shaders for that rubenwardy: I suggest trying it rubenwardy: not in MT ofc 05e​xe_virus: Why not in mt? rubenwardy: because overhead 05e​xe_virus: I guess cause vps don't have a gpu typically rubenwardy: better to do a proof of concept first rubenwardy: well, that to rubenwardy: *too sfan5: it also doesn't work on embedded GPUs (phones) sfan5: well, doesn't = very unlikely to be supported rubenwardy: yeah, this is interesting but not very portable 05e​xe_virus: Right 05e​xe_virus: Either way, I suspect we can get better mapgen integration with lua than we currently do sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10800 Zetta1Reid0: "How's is reflection in C++?" : Didn't get that . Also when you have to compile the whole engine it is not a mod anymore . Zetta1Reid0: A simple way to load mods would be dynamic loading like done in gmodule load from glibc rubenwardy: Reflection is the ability to find out information about objects and functions at runtime, and modify them rubenwardy: It looks like C++ mods would not allow access to all code anymore than Lua mods do rubenwardy: Perhaps you'd have access to all public functions and classes, but you wouldn't be able to hook into any where that isn't exposed Zetta1Reid0: Unless you subclass the classes rubenwardy: that requires virtual methods and you need a way to inject the subclasses rubenwardy: this is possible if you designed the code in a certain way from the beginning, but: rubenwardy: for a truly powerful C++ API, you'd need a more modular and datadriven structure. rubenwardy: that's not going to happen Zetta1Reid0: Why ? rubenwardy: because a massive rewrite is not justified nly: require() is disabled nly: can i disable mod security for just mymod? 05e​xe_virus: You can, but only on your machine rubenwardy: nly: secure.trusted_mods 05e​xe_virus: Add it to trusted nods and request an insecure environment rubenwardy: then ie = minetest.request_insecure_environment() and ie.require rubenwardy: secure.trusted_mods is a .conf setting nly: mod.conf -> secure.trusted_mods = mymod nly: init.lua -> minetest.request_insecure_environment() rubenwardy: minetest.conf not mod.conf rubenwardy: it's a user setting nly: ah yes, minetest.conf rubenwardy: it wouldn't be very secure if a mod could just go "yes, you can trust me" nly: dint work rubenwardy: are you requiring lua code? rubenwardy: have you made sure ie.package.path is as expected? nly: ie = mintest.request_insecure_environment() nly: local socket = ie.require("socket") nly: attempt to index global 'ie' (a nil value) line 38 sfan5: evidently it did not return an insecure environment, did you check the output? warnings? errors? nly: maybe socket is not present in my libs rubenwardy: > attempt to index global 'ie' (a nil value) line 38 rubenwardy: means you didn't edit trusted mods rubenwardy: also, local rubenwardy: local ie = daiNoZord: with after_place_node, I (try to) make sure "player" has a value - so local player = placer:get_player_name(), but then any attempt to call player:get_meta() crashes as get_meta() is a nil value. Did I miss a step? sfan5: post the relevant excerpt from your code Krock: we're supposed to guess it daiNoZord: no it's basically that with all the comments and other things removed - sorry was tidying it up https://pastebin.pl/view/b2112426 daiNoZord: to make it readable Krock: {} -> postr Krock: set_string expects a string Krock: and placer != player sfan5: "placer" is the player object, what you did was set "player" to the name of the player sfan5: get_meta is a method that operates on a player object daiNoZord: if i change placer to player then player becomes a nil value daiNoZord: and I thought set_string required both a key and a value? daiNoZord: and if i remove the line player:get_player_name() then player is also nil sfan5: you need to call placer:set_meta daiNoZord: ah.. fancy that! it doesn't crash now on placing the node.. thanks! :) 11I​hrFussel: Or you change 'placer' to 'player' inside the (...,...,...) nlyy: attempt to index local 'ie' (a nil value) nlyy: but i got secure.trusted_mods = opmod in ~/.minetest/minetest.conf rubenwardy: did you close and reopen MT? nlyy: so many times.. nlyy: i deleted my world. rip rubenwardy: what's the code? rubenwardy: is the mod name different `opmod` nly: this https://git.sr.ht/~op/opmod/tree/master/item/init.lua rubenwardy: ah rubenwardy: needs to be in the root of the init.lua rubenwardy: like, not in a function nlyy: thanks daiNoZord: sorry to keep asking - but when I try to retrieve that string on_punch.. i get a nil value. please excuse the commented-out bits, they show other approaches: https://pastebin.pl/view/32ad9531 11J​onathon: did you set the string anywhere? daiNoZord: ah yes - after_place in another node 11J​onathon: did you place that node before punching this one? daiNoZord: yes its placed daiNoZord: i get: Invalid position coordinate 'x' (expected number got nil) 11J​onathon: from which line? daiNoZord: set_pos 11J​onathon: where does postr come from? daiNoZord: https://pastebin.pl/view/cfbc4d98 11J​onathon: local spos = minetest.string_to_pos(postr) should be local spos = minetest.string_to_pos(rmeta) 11J​onathon: i think is what you want daiNoZord: ah i get the same error 11J​onathon: since it looks like your putting postr(in after_place_node) in player meta to save it, then you should get back from there daiNoZord: darn curly braces! Thanks Jonathon, it works :) LoneWolfHT: Was this ever considered as an engine replacement? They just had a 2.0 release 9 days ago https://github.com/horde3d/Horde3D rubenwardy: never heard of it LoneWolfHT: Maybe I'm thinking of Ogre3d daiNoZord: is arena_lib a thing to use to reset an environment - an arena - ie chest inventories, node positions (including falling nodes) etc? rubenwardy: I believe that mod is more about having multiple minigames at once on a server, their worlds tend to be readonly to avoid the unpredictable server freezers rubenwardy: Zughy[m]1: can answer that daiNoZord: ah ok thanks. I can possibly achieve a reset of certain things with node timers? rubenwardy: on CTF, the world is saved as a schematic. It's then placed when a new world starts rubenwardy: this allows each map to be git versioned in a folder rubenwardy: however, on a server with multiple minigames at once this isn't viable rubenwardy: you could use readonly backup databases and delete area rubenwardy: Minetest supports having two .sqlite file rubenwardy: one contains changes, one is readonly. Minetest reads from the changes before reading from readonly rubenwardy: this means you can put things in readonly, play a game, and then delete the area to read from readonly again rubenwardy: you could also do clever stuff with LVMs and storing which nodes have changed rubenwardy: but it's not always possible to keep track of changes, callbacks tend to be partially unreliabl rubenwardy: for example: LVMs don't call callbacks Krock: if there's lvm support, when will there be lvm2?! daiNoZord: ah.. ok.. but if a game ends.. manually loading a schem (like with worldedit) would work wouldn't it? so (sorry if im simplifying it..) but shouldn't it be possible to automate that? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix short_description fallback order (#10943) 13a8f6bef https://git.io/JtM7n (152021-02-17T18:53:44Z) rubenwardy: daiNoZord: yes, if you only have one game at a time you can use schematics rubenwardy: that's what CTF does rubenwardy: it takes about 8 seconds to place IIRC rubenwardy: most of that is light calcs rubenwardy: https://github.com/MT-CTF/capturetheflag/blob/master/mods/ctf/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/schem_map.lua#L332 daiNoZord: But you can place schems in game using WE. There must be a way of resetting various areas depending on a "condition" being met daiNoZord: ie by placing schems rubenwardy: ...? rubenwardy: I don't get what you mean rubenwardy: When a new match starts in CTF, it places a schematic for the new map rubenwardy: if this were done on the same location it would reset the map daiNoZord: u say schems can only be used to reset one minigame, but surely a number of different areas can be reset in the same way? I can place buildings etc all day long... there must be a way to reset individual areas depending on when a specific condition is met rubenwardy: I still don't get the question rubenwardy: what do you mean by reset? rubenwardy: To mapgen? rubenwardy: To some predefined state? rubenwardy: I don't get the question because I never said that it's not possible to reset other types of area rubenwardy: you can use the same technique on any position of the map daiNoZord: ok so a game ends and all players (objects_inside_radius) are teleported away - then when a new player hits a block and is teleported into the "lobby", then maybe objects_inside radius could be used to set a aschem daiNoZord: oh sorry i misunderstood daiNoZord: *a schem daiNoZord: and this could be done in multiple locations? daiNoZord: ah you said the world is saved as a schematic - I would only be saving small areas rubenwardy: the world in CTF is only 200x100x200 rubenwardy: I also said "map" rubenwardy: and this could be done in multiple locations? rubenwardy: Yes, you can place a schematic wherever you like daiNoZord: rubenwardy: on CTF, the world is saved as a schematic. It's then placed when a new world starts daiNoZord: ok thanks ill look into that rubenwardy: oops daiNoZord: if that's a suitable way of returning an area to a "default" state then that's the method i'll try to employ :) Zughy[m]1: daiNoZord: the arena reset won't be available till 7.0 (meaning not soon, we're on 4.6) => https://gitlab.com/zughy-friends-minetest/arena_lib/-/milestones/32 Zughy[m]1: so you have to do it manually, like Skywars does (you can find it on CDB) daiNoZord: ah ok thanks Zughy[m]1 - i'll go look at that now :) daiNoZord: haha.. skywars seems to be missing the islands.. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add nametag background setting and object property (#10937) 13f85e9ab https://git.io/JtMdD (152021-02-17T19:51:28Z) Sven_vB: hi :) Sven_vB: how can I start my singleplayer world directly? with "minetest --name singleplayer --world worlds/test --go" I get "ERROR[Main]: Access denied. Reason: Player name not allowed.", but without --name, I start with a wrong name and thus empty inventory. Sven_vB: using MT 5.3.0 on Ubuntu focal LoneWolfHT: Does it work without the --name? sfan5: yes you need to omit that Noclip: Floatlands are still marked as experimental. Are there currently any plans for changing them? How about the 5.4 update? 09s​rinivas: uh, last i checked, paramat was the mapgen guy, and he is on break sfan5: 5.4.0 does not change anything about floatlands Noclip: Ok anuke[m]: is it just me or is 5.4.0 player animation done clientside Noclip: Isn't all animation done clientside? anuke[m]: mods cant run stuff on the client in 5.3.X? Noclip: Yes (as far as I know). anuke[m]: so naturally youd have to send animation info from the server Noclip: animation info != animation sfan5: the animation for the local player is client-side since at least 5.0.0 sfan5: the other players are handeled by the server anuke[m]: i have latest master running and player movement/rotation is a hell of a lot smoother than on some 5.4.0-dev thats a bit older anuke[m]: but it seems like something in builtin that changed anuke[m]: like when rotating camera in third person, rotation is immediate and not choppily catching up to the mouse Noclip: So you're now talking about the local player? sfan5: I can assure you nothing about that changed in 5.4.0 Noclip: On my computer camera rotation in third person is immediate and completely smooth. (MT version 5.3.0) Noclip: I don't see anything like "choppily catching up" there. anuke[m]: yes anuke[m]: probably because im comparing 2 mods to about 50 Noclip: That's possible. anuke[m]: hmm anuke[m]: im comment out drawing code for some gui elements anuke[m]: a good 8ms of drawtime is added by simply having items in the inventory? anuke[m]: it isnt drawing anything anuke[m]: ok cool anuke[m]: i just gained 15 fps by commenting out ~6 lines in guiInventoryList anuke[m]: when the inventory is closed... rubenwardy: Oh that's fun anuke[m]: is it absolutely necessary to look up the inventory's list every frame in guiInventoryList anuke[m]: im thinking of caching it for a very minor boost anuke[m]: hold on anuke[m]: does backgroundimage actually use 4ms to draw anuke[m]: i mustve done something else theres no way anuke[m]: it does wow rubenwardy: Doubt Minetest uses smartpointers for lists. If the list is deleted, then there will be a segfault rubenwardy: Lists may also appear after showing the formspec hisforever: Hi I play in creative mode how can I get mobs to quit atacking me? 04o​neplustwo: kill the mobs hisforever: thanks MIDiscorsd delta23: disable mobs or just fly away from them? delta23: what mod is it? Aggregator: hi 11J​onathon: hi Aggregator: i have auth+players+world in posgres each one DB Aggregator: can this be merged to one database with all the tables inside or will it break something like conversion back to sqlite or another backend? 05e​xe_virus: Hmmm, does anyone have a good irc app for android they recommend that has the relative quality of discord? sfan5: best I can think is to join irc via matrix sfan5: think of* rubenwardy: Matrix is nice. I use Quassel, which is about half way 08B​uckarooBanzai: I use https://thelounge.chat/ but its server/web based, the web client is pretty good imo, even has push notifications 05e​xe_virus: The lounge is closer to what Im looking for, I already have bridges for discord to irc, I'm just looking for a good mobile irc app 05e​xe_virus: Ahhh, never mind this requires a backend server, hence quassel 05e​xe_virus: Basically, I just want my name to actually come through on irc, does it? rubenwardy: matrix does that. If you register, you can remove the [m] rubenwardy: you can't do a lot of IRC advanced stuff, but you do appear as a user on IRC rubenwardy: it's not like Discord where all users appear as one 05e​xe_virus: No we're good, I just checked on the ice logs, works rubenwardy: oh right rubenwardy: what did you think happened? Disembodied voices? 05e​xe_virus: I figured we all came through as rubenwardy: it's I figured we all came through as 05e​xe_virus: Yep, I read the logs, that's works. Sorry to bother this channel 12W​arr1024: I've been using TheLounge but it's not as bullet proof as I'd like, and it lacks features I consider key, like the ability to customize notifications per-channel. I've started using the Matrix bridge more. Extexo: Say you're typing in a formspec and the formspec updates while you're typing and what you were typing gets erased, is there a way to prevent that? anuke[m]: type in a text editor anuke[m]: please add [SOLVED] to the thread topic thanks Extexo: Huh? I didn't post a thread topic. anuke[m]: joke anuke[m]: i am giving very unhelpful advice 10L​apis Lazuli Wolf: When I slept in the default bed,I did not respawn by the bed upon death. 08a​ppguru: Gustavo6046: regarding that fix, you might want to have a look at the flowingliquid utilities I provide in modlib: https://github.com/appgurueu/modlib/blob/master/minetest.lua#L148-L262 zceejkr: Hello, I want to run a minetest server, but I already have some other services running on it. How much resources does a server use? Note the machine I want to run it on also lacks a GPU. sfan5: I can't give you exact numbers but it's pretty lightweight (depending on which game/mods you run) sfan5: and don't worry, you don't need a GPU zceejkr: So all the rendering takes place on the client side? sfan5: yes zceejkr: Alright, thanks. daiNoZord: Hello, I've looked at the api, several inet search results, the modding handbook and a bunch of mods - so far I've managed to set "meta" for a node ie. "owner", "infotext" and (i assume) "pos" - but I'm totally baffled now as to how to pass that data to another node. Or, more accurately, retrieve it by punching another node. The idea being.. any player can punch one single, central node and be teleported to their own, daiNoZord: player-specific ("owner") node. Thanks to Wuzzy and Krock I met tables (briefly) before and was successful in that respect. Is that what's required here? Or do things need to be written to a file? Ugh.. I think I'm outta my depth here (lol) sfan5: since you cannot search the entire world for that other node you'll need to save its positon somewhere central sfan5: ideal for that would be player metadata daiNoZord: ah.. so attach the meta to the player and not the node? daiNoZord: but you can get puncher:player_name - so isnt that player meta? daiNoZord: and compare that to some remote node meta, stored in a table somewhere? daiNoZord: or am i way off sfan5: why do you want to store anything in nodemeta at all? daiNoZord: so it acts like... a player-specific "homing beacon" that individual players can teleport to. And they can all do it just by punching one, special, central node that does the look-up zceejkr: Hello, so I am running my server now, at the logs say it is listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. But when I do an nmap scan from another machine in the local network, the port 30000 is reported as opened, but the state is CLOSED. daiNoZord: It may be the wrong, or least efficient way to do it but its the logical solution in my head. But I over-complicate things.... If their's a better way I'd love to hear it. zceejkr: As I understand this means that the port is opened correctly in the firewall, but no service is listening on it. zceejkr: Any ideas what the problem could be? sfan5: zceejkr: Minetest uses UDP, you cannot scan it with nmap to determine if it's "open" zceejkr: Ahhh zceejkr: I opened TCP ports zceejkr: Cheers sfan5: daiNoZord: but storing that data in nodemeta doesn't get you anything? how are you gonna find that one node when you need to read the data? daiNoZord: that's where I'm up to - ok so the homing beacon idea is out. I just thought that comaring the puncher name with a "owner" index alongside a "pos" value was the way to go - but that shows how much I have left to lear :) daiNoZord: *comparing daiNoZord: *learn (lol) daiNoZord: ok i think it just occurred to me that set meta can be after_place and get_meta on punch but both for the same node and trying to access them from another node is a no-go daiNoZord: damn sfan5: I think you need to think over your idea from the perspective 'what does the mod to determine where to teleport the player (where their own node is)?' daiNoZord: all I could think was this node needs a "label" and simplest way must be - label == puncher name. I'll take a step back and look at it again. Thanks sfan5 :) daiNoZord: I'm sure I must need to create a "list" or "table" somewhere, somehow though... daiNoZord: oh can u assign a variable (the nodes pos) to player meta? and look it up that way? daiNoZord: Ah.. PlayerMetaRef.. "There is currently no text in this page.." - maybe not then.. daiNoZord: and "set_meta" as a search in lua.api.txt returns a depracated entry... daiNoZord: set_attribute is deprecated... hmm.. daiNoZord: I don't think player meta is the way after all 11I​hrFussel: Player meta persists between restarts...it exists until you either delete the player data from the DB or empty it via code daiNoZord: IhrFussel: Thanks - that's good to know - I was just looking at how to "set" it. My searches turn up empty so far 11I​hrFussel: If you somehow store a list of node positions that are owned by that player you could load that specific node via core 11I​hrFussel: code* 11I​hrFussel: That's easy player:get_meta():set_string("somekey", "value") 11I​hrFussel: And to get player:get_meta():get_string("somekey") 11I​hrFussel: And to get player:get_meta():get_string("somekey") 11I​hrFussel: If you set the value to "" it gets deleted 11I​hrFussel: And if get_string() returns "" the value doesn't exist daiNoZord: aha! so after_place (node1) player:set_string, and on_punch (node2) player:get_string? ooh - that could work :) 11I​hrFussel: There is also set_int() get_int() and more...but for your usecase string sounds like what you need daiNoZord: fantastic! thankyou very much! 11I​hrFussel: No no... local meta = player:get_meta(); local val = meta:get_string("key"); meta:set_string("key", value) 11I​hrFussel: Like that daiNoZord: ah yes sorry - was short-handing it lol 11I​hrFussel: But to load a specific position in MT it requires something called voxelmanip...look it up daiNoZord: yes.. voxelmanip was the thing I wanted to get to after this... I love it when a plan comes together 11I​hrFussel: You forgot get_meta() though then 11I​hrFussel: Also you cannot store tables as player meta...use minetest.serialize(table) 11I​hrFussel: Or wait is that the wrong one...one sec daiNoZord: yes the tab is open on serialize/deserialize. I need to learn what that means. I just closed 194 crucial browser tabs... and im building it back up quickly.. 11I​hrFussel: Nope it's correct 11I​hrFussel: Yes so serialize() then store in meta and later deserialize() the string from meta 11I​hrFussel: And you have your table back daiNoZord: cool. but to set the player meta on_place and find it on_punch would work in this case? 11I​hrFussel: What exactly is your goal? You wanna store meta in on_place() and check that meta in on_punch()? 11I​hrFussel: If so then yes that works...meta is accessible anywhere where you have an actual player object 11I​hrFussel: Player meta* daiNoZord: after_place (node1) "this is your player-specific-block", ... on_punch (node2) "teleport to node1 (per-player)" 11I​hrFussel: But there is one big limitation for player meta...it can only be accessed while that player is in the game daiNoZord: is serialization/deserialization necessary in this scenario? daiNoZord: Ah yes but theyre the puncher 11I​hrFussel: Will the meta just have 1 position? daiNoZord: yes just 1 11I​hrFussel: Then you can just store it as minetest.pos_to_string(pos) in the meta daiNoZord: in player meta? 11I​hrFussel: And to convert it back minetest.string_to_pos(metavalue) 11I​hrFussel: Yes like local postr = minetest.pos_to_string(pos); player:get_meta():set_string("somekey", postr) daiNoZord: ok that is really helpful - thankyou IhrFussel! :) 11I​hrFussel: And to convert back from meta to pos: local pstr = player:get_meta():get_string("somekey"); ifpstr == "" then return end; local realpos = minetest.string_to_pos(pstr) blaise: Texes is getting double fisted with no ky blaise: XD daiNoZord: blaise you shouldn't do things like that to your mum zceejkr: How do I create a new world on my server? sfan5: you want to throw away the old one and start from scratch? zceejkr: I would not mind yes. I installed the mineclone2 mod, do I even need a new world for it? zceejkr: Or will it work fine if I use it in the old world? sfan5: mineclone2 is a game, not a mod sfan5: and yes it needs an entirely new world sfan5: in any case you'll need to locate your world folder and just ... delete it zceejkr: :D zceejkr: alright zceejkr: Thanks :) zceejkr: How would I run multiple worlds? zceejkr: Is there a command to create a fresh world next to an old one? daiNoZord: ive never tried it but i reckon if i open multiple terminal windows and run mts on each then that just might work. its a stretch tho. try that :) zceejkr: Ah, what I meant is how can I have multiple worlds, but run one at a time. Something like minetestserver --worldinit worldname zceejkr: To create a fresh world in the worlds folder. sfan5: you can run multiple server instance, make sure to pass different locations for --config --logfile and --worldname zceejkr: Ok I got my world/game running now. Thanks for all the help sfan5. Extexo: I'm gonna post this again cause it was ignored yesterday: Extexo: Say you're typing in a formspec and the formspec updates while you're typing and what you were typing gets erased, is there a way to prevent that? Extexo: Ping me when an answer is given daiNoZord: what does the formspec belong to and what causes it to update? Extexo: It's a node's formspec Extexo: And it gets updated when new information is added Extexo: Which is done realtime 09s​rinivas: hm 09s​rinivas: Extexo: perhaps look into somehow getting the text value when you are redrawing? and add that in Extexo: How do I get the text value without it being entered yet? sfan5: you can't 09s​rinivas: oh? fun sfan5: your best bet probably is to hold off updating it until the player finishes doing stuff Extexo: Oof Extexo: Kk MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Server-side authority for attached players (#10952) 137832b68 https://git.io/JtXoK (152021-02-15T19:41:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04NathanielFreeman -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update Spanish translation (#2824) 1373ea8e2 https://git.io/JtXPC (152021-02-15T20:54:48Z) 10L​apis Lazuli Wolf: @paramat If I sleep in a bed,it doesn't set my spawn point there. I'll respawn at my original point. 09s​rinivas: paramat is around? sfan5: he is not 09s​rinivas: @Lapis Lazuli Wolf 10L​apis Lazuli Wolf: Well,is this where I can report bugs? 09s​rinivas: github.com/minetest/minetest_game Conradish006: ~cdb Draconis 09s​rinivas: hehe * Conradish006: snickers then runs away 10L​apis Lazuli Wolf: I submitted it there now. Conradish006: While you wait for a response, you can always play ~cdb Draconis 09s​rinivas: hehe 09s​rinivas: this video is sponsored by raid draconis legends Gustavo6046: Is water supposed to flow down a lesser further extent when it goes down a level? Gustavo6046: Water can push items, but I hoped they'd not get stuck. Gustavo6046: I was sorely mistaken. Gustavo6046: https://i.imgur.com/N71ETwN.png FrostRanger[m]: Gustavo6046: do you have ethereal and 3d armor installed by chance? Gustavo6046: FrostRanger[m]: yes, both Gustavo6046: is it configurable? FrostRanger[m]: When both of those mods are installed, 3d armor enables fire damage by default FrostRanger[m]: If you go into the config and coment out the line for the torch, you can remove that though FrostRanger[m]: The config for 3d armor that is Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: I see Gustavo6046: thanks! FrostRanger[m]: Np Gustavo6046: FrostRanger[m]: is it a .conf file? I found mods/3d_armor/3d_armor/armor.conf.example Gustavo6046: ohhh Gustavo6046: api.lua Gustavo6046: there is the definitions for armor.config, including fire_protect_torch Gustavo6046: waaait Gustavo6046: oh Gustavo6046: FrostRanger[m]: I had no idea there was a whole system for reading config files from the world directory Gustavo6046: or wait Gustavo6046: nevermind lol Gustavo6046: I'm stupid Gustavo6046: there are ingame interfaces for it, I didn't know FrostRanger[m]: Gustavo6046: actually, I was referring to editing them directly Gustavo6046: FrostRanger[m]: ah Gustavo6046: I still haven't figured out how Gustavo6046: which is funny Gustavo6046: maybe I just uncomment the lua line? but that doesn't seem like it Gustavo6046: let me check the wiki Gustavo6046: I'm definitely missing something lol adfeno: Hi there error: terminate called without an active exception, when copying the minetest.format_chat_message and redefining it. adfeno: Gustavo6046: I think lua_api.txt is the best place to check stuff. adfeno: Sometimes the wiki is not updated. Gustavo6046: Ahh. Gustavo6046: adfeno: no, the wiki.minetest.net wiki. I'm not creating a mod or anything Gustavo6046: I've written a mod before, or well, more precisely I added changes to one Gustavo6046: Anyway, I'm trying to figure mod configuration. Gustavo6046: For some reason there's just nothing obvious in the file tree and the wiki has nothing about it either. adfeno: What is the issue, Gustavo6046? Gustavo6046: In 3d_armor/api.lua, armor.config is defined, but I dunno if it reads any configuration file, and/or how that would work. Gustavo6046: I an definitely missing something obvious and I'm probably dumb. Gustavo6046: I mean because ofi t adfeno: Mostly see a file called settingtypes.txt Gustavo6046: Oh, there is that Gustavo6046: armor_fire_protect_torch (Enable fire protection torch damage) bool false adfeno: or do a recursive search, starting from 3d_armor, for the phrase: minetest.settings Gustavo6046: I found the relevant setting Gustavo6046: It's set to true by default when it encounters ethereal is loaded (which it is) Gustavo6046: So I just put that in minetest.conf? Seems a bit counter-intuitive. Gustavo6046: For some reason adfeno: You can make separate conf for a given server, provided you use --config option when launching Minetest. Gustavo6046: I do do that Gustavo6046: I didn't realize mod config went in the same file Gustavo6046: :p Gustavo6046: Well, I don't know, I'll test i now adfeno: Gustavo6046: That setting can be adjusted in graphical user interface (before starting a world or joining a server), in the advanced settings. Or, you can do as you said. Gustavo6046: it now* Gustavo6046: adfeno: it's a dedicated server adfeno: Gustavo6046: Ah, nice, I`m also doing one in Brazil. Gustavo6046: yeah! Gustavo6046: adfeno: my dedicated server is actually a digital ocean VPS in the US that an american friend gave me an account on Gustavo6046: guess what, I'm from Brazil! adfeno: Nice to meet you Gustavo6046: Thanks, mate! adfeno: Brazilian Minetest players have a XMPP chat room/channel where there are some brazilian developers adfeno: xmpp:minetest@chat.libreplanetbr.org?join adfeno: We might soon migrate to other server, but for now we use that. adfeno: More information about what is XMPP, and how to use it: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/XMPP.pt adfeno: Can we use colors in chat? adfeno: For some strange reason, get_player_by_name is terminating/aborting my server. adfeno: I think I have an idea. adfeno: I`ll try set nametag color to "" steveiRcvs: Hi. steveiRcvs: I'm playing through skyblock, I'm on the last level. How am I supposed to get iron bars? The guide says to break steel bars, but I've broken over a hundred now and nothing is happening. adfeno: How to redefine minetest.format_chat_message ? adfeno: to add nametag color? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix segfault with invalid texture strings and minimap enabled 13f018737 https://git.io/JtP3o (152021-02-14T10:28:02Z) adfeno: It seems that the callback to on_priv_revoke doesn't have priv, contrary to what lua_api.txt said. adfeno: And also, every attempt to get player privs during on_priv_revoke/grant gives outdated list of privs. adfeno: I could check privs on each message, but that would not be practical. adfeno: I think I`ll only check on join. ZeroConfig: Doesn't anyone know of a working, updated or alternate to this: https://github.com/ChaosWormz/forbidden_usernames/blob/master/init.lua ZeroConfig: Because this one doesn't work, gives an error: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome ZeroConfig: Or also if someone knows how to correct the code to fix it. ZeroConfig: It's supposed to check new players usernames and disallow certain names from registering. I want to block perverted names. Thank you. ZeroConfig: It says it was originally by sfan5, so maybe he has a better version of it? sfan5: that one functions implementation was originally by me, not the mod ZeroConfig: Ok. Can you offer me any advice with this? sfan5: anyway I'm pretty sure there's an updated version called name_restrictions or similar ZeroConfig: Thank you sir, I'll search for that one. ZeroConfig: Thank you, I found it: https://github.com/ShadowNinja/name_restrictions sfan5: by looking at the code I can tell that it's similarily outdated and won't work ZeroConfig: Also does anyone know what "squeakecraft[er]" is? I've seen that name in both versions. ZeroConfig: Yeah 4 years ago. :( ZeroConfig: I googled this, but it still doesn't tell me what it is: https://github.com/Pipsqueake/SqueakeCraft ZeroConfig: The entire readme is: ZeroConfig: README.md ZeroConfig: SqueakeCraft ZeroConfig: This is the future home of the SqueakeCraft source files for full LGPL compliance with the Minetest Game Engine. adfeno: Gess, I think I found the issue. adfeno: I'm so dumb ;) adfeno: Is there any way to do something only after on_priv_revoke/grant prcessed all changed privs? adfeno: For example, admin can do /revoke player fly,home (note the comma), this will make an unordered call to on_priv_revoke for all of fly and home sfan5: minetest.after(0, ...) probably sfan5: I've faced this proble in the past and decided to just not fix it sfan5: problem* adfeno: unordered in the sense that priv inside on_priv_revoke will be a string with priv name, and this will repeat with no particular order (after receiving the list, server could do home first then fly, or fly first then home). adfeno: sfan5: Ah I see, thanks 08a​ppguru: minetest.after is not the way to go here 08a​ppguru: rather, you should override the func of the revoke/grant chatcommand to execute an additional callback specified by you afterwards sfan5: that's also a hack and worse since those chatcommands are not the only way to grant or revoke privs 08a​ppguru: but would you want on_priv_revoke to be essentially on_step? I don't think so sfan5: I'm suggesting using minetest.after(0) inside on_priv_revoke to wait for the change to actually happen TechDude: Wuzzy, I have a question about mineclone2 Wuzzy: hello Wuzzy: i am Wuzzy. TechDude: so I wanna find a village TechDude: but I can’t find one, so I wanna make one TechDude: i do /giveme mobs_mc:villager 16 TechDude: then I place all of em and build some homes, BUT TechDude: how am I supposed to trade with them? I’ve looked at the code countless times Wuzzy: rightclick TechDude: I tried rightclicking multiple times Wuzzy: with empty hand TechDude: and my mcl version is not outdated, I downloaded it the day before yesterday Wuzzy: the next version might have villages TechDude: wait “empty hand” oh, ok! Thx Wuzzy: that worked? TechDude: No, I’ll try it ltr Wuzzy: if it does not work, then its a bug TechDude: i doing off-topic stuff rn Wuzzy: oh, there is one villager that you cannot trade with. Wuzzy: its the one with green clothing iirc TechDude: nitwit ik Wuzzy: but all others should work. if they dont, its a bug TechDude: all villagers i place are nitwit Krock: can I kill Villagers? TechDude: Well ofc u cam TechDude: can* Wuzzy: that is definitely a bug Wuzzy: report MCL2 bugs here: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues TechDude: I’m back, and being able to kill villagers is a bug? Wuzzy Wuzzy: no Gustavo6046: So Gustavo6046: 10+1's Builtin Item water pushing thing doesn't always push item completely off a block Gustavo6046: Sometimes they get stuck Gustavo6046: Particularly in diagonal corners Krock: that's because it uses the old style of manual collision detection Krock: it checks the node below its center only Krock: and if that happens on a corner, it attempts to fall but fails doing so because the engine still does collisions Krock: updating the mod's code to 5.3.0-ish should fix such issues Gustavo6046: dah Gustavo6046: ah* Gustavo6046: Krock: 5.3.0-ish Gustavo6046: ? Gustavo6046: It is updated Gustavo6046: I installed it yeasterday ;p Gustavo6046: :p * sfan5: does mineclone use its' own item entity code? Gustavo6046: I could do the check on the four horizontal corners Gustavo6046: Like in a fork or something Krock: yes sure the mod is up-to-date but isn't using recent features apparently Gustavo6046: I wonder if I can fork it into GitHub using the github import functionality, and send a PR back to notabug. Gustavo6046: Krock: oh, you said updating the mod's code Gustavo6046: lol Gustavo6046: Apologies, I probably need a caffeine transfusion. Krock: no, PRs must be on the same service. you could however export your commits as patches and submit those to notabug Gustavo6046: Oh, okay Sven_vB: hi :) is the \e(c@#111) color code in an NPC dialog a MineTest feature, or one of Irrlicht, or is that a server mod ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/111 -- Window close icon gives odd screen appearance on shutdown Gustavo6046: Krock: you mean if there is space under an item, or if it should still be propelled by water? Gustavo6046: If the latter, then checking on the four corners should also apply up to four thrusts depending on how many flowing water nodes intersect with the item, right? Krock: Wuzzy: do you have a good real-world example to test get_short_description() ? Wuzzy: the show_wielded_item mod Wuzzy: but it needs updating, still Wuzzy: which i will probably do after release Krock: https://repo.or.cz/minetest_show_wielded_item.git/tree this one? Krock: nvm you moved to another service Krock: okay then I'll test it on a few random mods to check whether it works well Krock: thanks anyway Wuzzy: 🙂 Gustavo6046: Krock: as in, what exactly does it check regarding the node below it? Gustavo6046: below the item, of course Gustavo6046: Like, if it is still on a floor and/or pushable? Krock: whether it can fall thoguh Gustavo6046: Oh, okay Krock: i.e. walkable = false Krock: minetest 5.3.0 (or so) introduced collision information which can be used for that sort of thing rubenwardy: > okay then I'll test it on a few random mods to check whether it works well rubenwardy: Make sure you have something to actually show get_short_description. You could modify show_eielded_item for that Krock: 5-line testing mod that just runs the function on the wielded item Krock: should be good enough Krock: ah yes. xdecor's enchantment feature works just fine to test this Gustavo6046: Krock: it only checks def_under Krock: Gustavo6046: yes and that's exactly the problem Gustavo6046: Krock: yes, but I don't know how I am going to change the code below to check for possibly four Krock: not the part with "check" but "only". it should also take collision data into account Gustavo6046: Krock: I know Gustavo6046: but what I mean is Krock: this literal edge-case can be solved pretty much by a single node check Gustavo6046: lol, "edge" case, nice pun :D Krock: well it's not really a pun because it's literally an edge case Gustavo6046: but yeah, am I supposed to list up to four unique nodes under the item, and loop the code below it over all them? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/item_entity.lua Krock: this is the behaviour without the item_entity mod Krock: the trick here is to use the collision data to get the nearest colliding node Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/item_entity.lua#L254-L262 Gustavo6046: Ahh, I see Krock: have a look into the lua api doc, or print(dump()) that stuff to check what happens Krock: tinker a bit and you'll find a solution sooner or later Gustavo6046: Krock: I just adapted the little snippet of code from minetest builtin's item_entity.lua Gustavo6046: https://termbin.com/bxbv Gustavo6046: is this good? Gustavo6046: or does it look good? Gustavo6046: I should probably test it fist Gustavo6046: first* Gustavo6046: but I don't know Krock: the only thing that could happen there is that you get an error and lose a few seconds of gameplay progress Krock: just try it Krock: oh wait. you should get "moveresult" from the 3rd on_step arg Krock: i.e. > self, dtime, moveresult Gustavo6046: Krock: doesn't it?} Gustavo6046: oh Krock: I was just guessing. haven't looked at builtin_item for a while Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: alright Gustavo6046: Krock: true Gustavo6046: It wasn't defined Gustavo6046: this better? https://termbin.com/aw6k Gustavo6046: Krock: so I forked the original notabug repo and put my changes in a branch https://notabug.org/Gustavo6046/builtin_item/src/gus-mod-update-5.3.0 Gustavo6046: now I want to make a pull request, but I can't tell if "base: master" refers to master on my repo or master on 10+1's! Krock: > this better? https://termbin.com/aw6k Krock: dunno. does it work as you'd expect? Gustavo6046: Krock: didn't check yet Gustavo6046: you know, I should probably check first Gustavo6046: hang on Krock: good question. next question. I usually open Pull Requests in the original repository and point that to my working branch in the fork, if possible Gustavo6046: oh, ok Gustavo6046: Wait Krock: github does that correctly by default but I dunno about notabug Gustavo6046: Krock: it does show it in TenPlus1's repo Gustavo6046: in notabug Gustavo6046: I just noticed anyway Gustavo6046: https://i.imgur.com/nSEI9Ln.png Krock: that's good Gustavo6046: mhm Gustavo6046: Krock: it's still stuck on the corner Gustavo6046: https://i.imgur.com/JwGmcGn.png Gustavo6046: but Gustavo6046: it doesn't seem to happen as much Gustavo6046: but Gustavo6046: still happens Krock: oh I think that happens because there's no water Krock: or is there? difficult to tell Gustavo6046: Krock: what? Gustavo6046: I mean Gustavo6046: Krock: indeed, it is like I said before you came up with your ground thing Gustavo6046: it's not about ground Gustavo6046: it's about water Gustavo6046: it stops being pushed just early enough that it does not fall luizrpgluiz: hi all Gustavo6046: To be fair, Krock, it does seem to happen more with TenPlusOne's code Gustavo6046: Maybe 1/4th of a second is not fine enough? luizrpgluiz: Gustavo6046: hi Gustavo6046: Hello luizrpgluiz luizrpgluiz: Gustavo6046: how are you? i am brazilian :) Gustavo6046: same! :D Gustavo6046: I'm alright Gustavo6046: Krock: I think I found what I was looking for Krock: a valentine present for me? Krock: how nice of you. thanks! Gustavo6046: Hehe Gustavo6046: I suppose too, but Gustavo6046: Krock: in local function quick_flow, below line 105 I think Gustavo6046: that's where it finds water flow direction Gustavo6046: but it only checks orthogonally Krock: ah yes there we go Gustavo6046: I think by duplicating the lines and adding checks with slight offsets on X (in one duplicate) and on Z (in another duplicate) I should be able to rectify this. Gustavo6046: But I don't know Gustavo6046: or maybe just do diagonals regularly Gustavo6046: Yeah Gustavo6046: I'll use 0.5, not sqrt(2)/2 :) Gustavo6046: Hm, that doesn't seem to work Gustavo6046: I'll use 1 Gustavo6046: Krock: the changes I did actually work! Gustavo6046: I just had to change the inverse square root table Gustavo6046: because it required a precision to 0.25 instead of to 1 Gustavo6046: I could probably just have rounded it or something Gustavo6046: But I'm still happy with how it turned out Gustavo6046: Krock: something feels funny Gustavo6046: the items often look reluctant to fall down Gustavo6046: like, they're about to go down a level, but then they recoil back Gustavo6046: They don't so much as get stuck, in that they keep moving Gustavo6046: https://i.imgur.com/CdQIojT.png Gustavo6046: This one slowly zigzagged its way to that obstacle block, and only then fell down the narrow canal Krock: heh Gustavo6046: I think I messed some stuff Gustavo6046: Krock: I expanded the scope of the PR a little Gustavo6046: latest commit pushes items through acceleration instead of velocity Gustavo6046: I found that that easily fixes the issues too Gustavo6046: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/builtin_item/pulls/2 Gustavo6046: Krock: I think that the last commit I just appended concludes, at least for now. Gustavo6046: I tested a bit in singleplayer and it should work fine. Gustavo6046: Just removed a debug print I forgot to lol Gustavo6046: :o Gustavo6046: it seems to work well! Gustavo6046: even in multiplayer Gustavo6046: check mouses.xyz, I can tphr TechDude: Anyone here plays mineclone2 and has the same problem as me? https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues/1120 TechDude: p TechDude: Er nvm the “p” Gustavo6046: no Gustavo6046: it's on right click sfan5: Gustavo6046: you cannot use "latest git" of minetest_game with 5.3.0 of the engine 12L​emente: > you can use !tell sokomine if the user isn't online @appguru thanks, I'll try that! 12L​emente: !tell sokomine hey! I made a few textures in the rpg16 style for your mid cottages. I was also thinking about making a PR for your mod. I made all the wooden nodes flammable. I was also thinking about cleaning the textures names. And since I can easily do palette swap in my textures, I could support more roof types. 12L​emente: (us this how it works?) 12L​emente: is* 08a​ppguru: @Lemente unfortunately that only works from IRC 12L​emente: Well, at least I tried 😄 12L​emente: Will it work if I rename myself /tell sokomine ? 😅 Krock: @L​emente just propose a PR 12L​emente: I guess that's what I'll do, thanks! 10c​oging: what's the IRC channel tag? Krock: #minetest nly: how can i call a command from lua "/give nly mcl_tools:axe_diamond" for example? nly: ofc, i need more than axe sfan5: if it's the give comand it'd be easier to just reproduce its functionality rubenwardy: yeah, better to use the Lua API for that - see add_item in InvRef rubenwardy: !book inv MinetestBot: rubenwardy: ItemStacks and Inventories - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/items/inventories.html sfan5: generally it's minetest.registered_chatcommands["give"].func("name_of_the_player_who_is_executing_the_command", "nly mcl_tools:axe_diamond") nly: thanks nly: whats a concise syntax to add items to a iTemstack? Krock: nly: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5975 Krock: ^ for Inventories Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L6069-L6070 <-- for itemstack alone Gustavo6046: funn! Gustavo6046: :D nly: http://paste.debian.net/1185339/ nly: whats wrong here? Krock: lua uses ~ rather than ! Krock: and arrays start at index 1 nly: input:1: '(' expected near 'loop' on https://www.lua.org/cgi-bin/demo Krock: what's loop? nly: function name Krock: and what's remove? nly: table.remove 12W​arr1024: What language is that code in? Looks like pseudocode... Krock: so use table.remove and call loop like a function Krock: i.e. loop(table.remove(arg, 1) Krock: ) 12W​arr1024: table.remove? First arg would have to be a table 12W​arr1024: what you've got is ..., which is a lua bare list Krock: local arg = {...} does the trick 12W​arr1024: you need at least something like local arg = {...} to pack it into a table if you want to manipulate it that way Krock: inja0d Krock: ninja'd 12W​arr1024: but you'd frankly be better off just leaving it as ... Krock: but ... cannot be indexed that easily and counting the number of full stops isn't practical either 12W​arr1024: local function loop(first, ...) if first ~= nil then return "" else return first .. loop(...) end end 12W​arr1024: Also, the function doesn't make sense to me in the first place. nly: can i trouble you for paste? 12W​arr1024: For instance m("a", "b") should always return empty string since "a" is never nil, and m() would always recurse forever because the first arg will always be nil. 12W​arr1024: Looks like a backwards implementation of string concatenation as a tail-recursive function. Krock: also you're defining "loop" and "m" in the same line. weird syntax but apparently okay 12W​arr1024: yeah, that's also bad style because m is local but loop is apparently global 12W​arr1024: local function concat(first, ...) return first == nil and "" or (first .. concat(...)) end 12W​arr1024: Thus concat("a", "b", "c") should return "abc". anuke[m]: dont 12W​arr1024: Of course people never actually do this because just using the .. operator makes more sense, and this is only actually useful when you're working with incoming variadics. Krock: basically re-inventing table.concat anuke[m]: table.concat has not awful performance 12W​arr1024: well, sorta. It skips the process of stuffing ... into a table. anuke[m]: using .. reallocates many times Krock: anuke[m]: I'm pretty sure this is for educational purposes anuke[m]: oh good 12W​arr1024: Ah, and of course, it's not possible to have a conversation that involves string concatenation without someone sharing that old misconception about slow vs fast string concat. anuke[m]: its not a misconception 12W​arr1024: If this were a low-level language like C, where the use of dumb naive string concat is effectively specified by the language then that advice would make sense. anuke[m]: since you already know its "a", "b", "c" just say table.concat{"a", "b", "c"} 12W​arr1024: Of course, part of the misconception is that the misconception is not a misconception. anuke[m]: allocate 4 slots in the hashmap and concat anuke[m]: rather than multiple reallocs 12W​arr1024: If you already know it's "a", "b", and "c" then obviously "a".."b".."c" runs in O(0) time. anuke[m]: does luac concat literals at compile-time? 12W​arr1024: the string concat operator is generally faster than table concatenation in HLLs, especially JITted ones, because it avoids the work of constructing a table. 08a​ppguru: In LuaJIT it has pretty much the same performance 08a​ppguru: At least according to the few benchmarks I ran anuke[m]: thats fair, im used to traditional lua vm 12W​arr1024: Generally the correct answer as to "which is faster" is "you'll need to test it on the target runtime implementation to know for sure." anuke[m]: yes testing now 12W​arr1024: Because modern string concat is often NOT done by buffer copying. 08a​ppguru: in traditional Lua concat will be faster for many strings 12W​arr1024: Strings are internally stored as ropes while they're being constructed and only baked down to strings as necessary, so i.e. the build-into-table-then-table.concat thing is effectively done in native code and thus is faster if you don't try to do it yourself. 12W​arr1024: A given Lua implementation may or may not actually do this under the hood, but for example V8 JS definitely does, and JS has almost the exact same string semantics that Lua does, other than the aggressive interning (which I think is merely unspecified, not anathema, in JS). 08a​ppguru: Lua strings are unique 08a​ppguru: V8 optimizations don't apply to them 12W​arr1024: You mean the strings themselves are unique as a consequence of interning, or you mean that the fact that they are interned makes Lua's string logic unique? 08a​ppguru: they are unique 08a​ppguru: string comparison is constant time IIRC 12W​arr1024: Yes, that's what I was asking 08a​ppguru: which means whenever you're creating a new string it has to check whether it's already present to return the existing adress if possible 08a​ppguru: so if you concat strings, this is theoretically done after each concat operator 08a​ppguru: if you concat a table, it is only done once 12W​arr1024: No, they don't have to do that at string creation, they only need to do that when you're creating a string reference that will later be read. Interning can be skipped for intermediate strings. 08a​ppguru: Yes 08a​ppguru: LuaJIT optimizes this 08a​ppguru: for PUC Lua, table concat used to be recommended though 08a​ppguru: IDK if that has changed with 5.3 or 5.4... 12W​arr1024: So if you do local a = "" for i = 1, 100 do a = a .. i end return a then only the final value of string a actually needs to be interned. This means that a can exist as a rope during the bulk of this method and thus it should run faster than using the alternative table.concat. 12W​arr1024: Kinda makes me curious about how PUC vs. JIT stack up on that sort of function. 12W​arr1024: The most correct way to optimize string concat is to not optimize string concat, and never put yourself in a situation where you'd have to worry about it. The second best way is to do what makes the most sense and balances readability for the most common case, and then don't worry about it unless you have evidence of a perf problem later. 12W​arr1024: In this case I think doing the .. concat operator probably makes the most sense. 08a​ppguru: Currently doing start = os.time(); str = ""; for i = 1, 1000000 do str = str .. i end; print(os.time() - start) in PUC Lua and it's horribly slow 12W​arr1024: I wouldn't mandate JIT absolutely, but I'd avoid optimizing for PUC specifically, especially at the cost of JIT, because I'd expect JIT to be the primary use-case. 12W​arr1024: All in all string concat is one of those things that gets WAY more attention than it deserves in the balance of things, and there's always someone who chimes in with "X is wrong, Y is the right way" and completely misses both the nuance of how actual implementations handle it, and the fact that if you're gonna have a serious perf drag in your code, there's a good chance string handling is not your culprit. * anuke[m]: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/iTTetmOuqWecnLhmhzwTeHNs/message.txt > 08a​ppguru: table.concat returns almost immediately for that benchmark 08a​ppguru: so yes, it appears to still make a big difference 12W​arr1024: Like, if you remember the leftpad debacle in the JS world, when you look at how leftpad was implemented, it was actually interesting because that leftpad implementation was distinctly optimized. anuke[m]: indeed it does anuke[m]: in lua5.3 .. is 500x slower than concat with a single string repeated 08a​ppguru: oof 08a​ppguru: for me, the concat benchmarks both haven't even completed yet anuke[m]: aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 08a​ppguru: despite only construing < 10 MB strings anuke[m]: i have to compile my time thing for luajit anuke[m]: or else no microsecond time 12W​arr1024: It's well established that PUC lua doesn't optimize basically anything, and with JIT being the de facto standard across languages today, PUC should be considered more of a reference implementation than an actual real-world one. anuke[m]: yes anuke[m]: im going to test in a min 08a​ppguru: well, the LuaJIT one hasn't exited either, to my surprise 12W​arr1024: If LuaJIT effs this up too then I guess it would just go to show how far behind the Lua world is as a general-application language overall. 08a​ppguru: which is weird, as I specifically remember doing this and it being really fast 12W​arr1024: I think strings-as-ropes was a 1990's thing. 12W​arr1024: so anyone still doing naive strings 20 years later in an HLL seems weird 12W​arr1024: Again, if you actually HAVE to do this optimization, though, then you've probably already done something wrong. anuke[m]: why wouldnt you want to repeat a string 1 million times in lua 08a​ppguru: that number doesn't seem that big anuke[m]: i want to be able to get the .. result anuke[m]: instead of having to ^C it 12W​arr1024: The most efficient way to repeat a string SHOULD be to double it repeatedly, then truncate it to the correct length. 08a​ppguru: it probably won't matter regarding Minetest anuke[m]: ok wow anuke[m]: table.concat is noticably faster than string.rep? 12W​arr1024: I'm fairly sure that there's nothing specified in the language itself that dictates which method should be fastest, like the way low-level C strings do, so the fastest way should just match the language-independent standard. * anuke[m]: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jebgifglhOQVMrnQaupqPhsB/message.txt > anuke[m]: takes 12 seconds with luajit .. anuke[m]: ah 12W​arr1024: srsly? That's F'd up. anuke[m]: yes anuke[m]: not such a misconception after all * anuke[m]: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/tFOJhOOtnvzkOmAuYsSXSPMf/message.txt > anuke[m]: for reference this is my test code 12W​arr1024: Anyway, it's certainly a misconception that manually building a list of strings and then doing a big concat at the end is faster, it's just apparently ALSO a misconception that concepts in string handling since the 90's also apply to Lua. 12W​arr1024: On some level it's a little surprising, but on another, I guess Lua probably does a lot less string manip than other languages, so maybe it makes sense in context. anuke[m]: ah i fixed a thing anuke[m]: table.concat is actually 2x slower than c anuke[m]: and not just an empty loop 12W​arr1024: Try it using V8 and I think you'll see some surprises. 12W​arr1024: Frankly, if someone could coopt V8 to run untranspiled Lua that would probably be a big speed boost, though the C crossover stuff would be a mess, so I'm not surprised it hasn't happened yet. 12W​arr1024: Then again, I guess with stuff like nodejs, JS already has its own native interfaces, so maybe it shouldn't be TOO hard? anuke[m]: >v8 anuke[m]: >any kind of c interop anuke[m]: this is why lua is great 12W​arr1024: nodejs definitely does C interop decently, or else that whole "it's singlethreaded so you can only use 1 CPU core" thing would be true too. 12W​arr1024: In nodejs, the JS is mostly just used as dispatch coordination between native calls, and you can spend like 99% of your time in native calls running in background threads. anuke[m]: yeah now try to write is-true in c and youll see why lua is king anuke[m]: :P 12W​arr1024: Lua was arguably better designed for this kind of work earlier on, but JS has had so much mindshare thrown at it that it's evolving fast and has probably leapfrogged Lua in many of these regards. 12W​arr1024: JS type coercion is a train-wreck, sure, but people who do JS day-to-day have mostly formed scar tissue around that particular blob of pus. 12W​arr1024: It's not like Lua never made a mistake they regretted and then tried to back out in a later version of the language (ahem setfenv) but then had trouble getting their community to accept it (everyone still using 5.1) anuke[m]: luajit not being ported to 5.3/4* rubenwardy: `..` is noticably slower than table.concat 12W​arr1024: Yes, that's what we concluded. adfeno: Hi, I installed climate_api regional_weather, pova, and player_monoids in v7 mapgen and can`t move. 12W​arr1024: The problem is that you shouldn't ASSUME that string concat operators will be slower than array-concat constructs, because that's an anacrhonism. adfeno: I can only jump. anuke[m]: in v8 using join is 2x faster than + concatenation loop * anuke[m]: uploaded an image: Screenshot_16:49:23.png (16KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/yMEOyEoYIyhokaTofupCJemL/Screenshot_16:49:23.png > 12W​arr1024: The problem I was trying to point out was that people think that the concat operator being slow is a fundamental property of strings. Someone inevitably offers this advice regardless of language or implementation. The problem is that it's NOT fundamental and DOES vary between contexts. That makes it a misconception to me, even if it can sometimes be right when applied to a specific context. anuke[m]: yes anuke[m]: know thy implementation anuke[m]: its always slower on lua5.3 anuke[m]: til its slower on jit anuke[m]: with 10m iterations it takes 3.3 seconds with +, 1.6s with join anuke[m]: actually its somehow 3800x slower on luajit 12W​arr1024: Haha, wow, apparently string handling gets pretty weird under the hood. Example from the JS world where they also mention a comparison to Lua: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6551918/javascript-string-concatenation-speed 12W​arr1024: Either way, if you're doing a minetesty thing in Lua, and you're having problems with string concat speed that are actually impacting your thing, then I'm really wondering what that thing is. There just isn't all that much use of strings in MT that will have notable performance impact unless you find a way to do something really really wrong. 12W​arr1024: Don't forget the first 2 rules of Lua optimization from https://www.lua.org/gems/sample.pdf anuke[m]: yeah anuke[m]: when would you need to concat more than like 4 strings anuke[m]: for formspecs use neither concat nor .., use string.format Krock: string.format and table.concat Krock: based on execution time it really does not matter for so few and short string operations 12W​arr1024: I find .. more readable than string.format when you have relatively sporadic variable interpolation, since string.format relies on argument position. nly: thanks anuke[m]: yeah anuke[m]: .. is perfectly fine when you have few strings 12W​arr1024: Ultimately if I had to do a lot of formspec construction I'd prefer to use abstract helpers, but I get a lot more value out of avoiding that problem than trying to solve it. nly: how would you go about doing multiple addItem to ItemStack? anuke[m]: multiple calls anuke[m]: stack.addItem(...) anuke[m]: stack.addItem(...) Krock: no Krock: :add_item 12W​arr1024: when adding items to a stack or inv, it's often important to remember to pay attention to the residuals returned. anuke[m]: doesnt matter if you use : or not Krock: or stack.add_item(item, .......) anuke[m]: addItem is nil 12W​arr1024: if you're adding 3 stacks together it's possible that you get a result that doesn't fit in fewer than 3 stacks. anuke[m]: true that anuke[m]: how to lose items in 1 simple step anuke[m]: powered by not checking for overflow nly: https://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#FoldUnfoldMap Krock: oh no scheme * Krock: hides nly: map, fold anyone? 12W​arr1024: nly: if you've got a LISP background, then you might wanna check out the Fennel language, which is a LISP dialect that transpiles into Lua. I haven't tried it myself yet, but it's on my list, and at least one significant Lua project (the Loria game I think?) uses it. 12W​arr1024: Yeah, here it is https://github.com/forked-from-1kasper/loria 12W​arr1024: A Minetest game written in a LISP dialect. rubenwardy: inv:add_item("main", ItemStack({ name = "default:dirt", count = 32 })) 12W​arr1024: Adding items to inventories makes things easier than trying to add them to stacks directly and then getting/setting stacks in an inventory. The only limitation is that you can't control how things are packed into inventories; they always occupy the first available space. anuke[m]: pro memory microptimisation tip: 1. store {} 2. store ItemStack since im 99% sure all userdata has to be allocated on the heap by lua 12W​arr1024: And in all cases you need to remember to check for the "carry" stack in the return value, and do something sane with it. If all inventories are full you can just add it to the world as an item entity 12W​arr1024: anuke: oh, you mean create a shared cached empty itemstack? This is only safe of course if you're pretty confident that ItemStacks are immutable... anuke[m]: shouldnt add_item basically take the arg as const 12W​arr1024: I do kinda love that you can do local symbol = {} to create abstract symbols in lua, like for table keys and such. anuke[m]: yes anuke[m]: malloc(1) anuke[m]: actually that gives me an idea anuke[m]: malloc an address, print it, free it anuke[m]: prng 12W​arr1024: add_item may not modify the incoming arg, but there's no guarantee that that's the only code that will be run that has access to that stack. anuke[m]: ok 12W​arr1024: malloc doesn't make a good prng, because you don't know how the platform reuses or defragments freed memory. anuke[m]: its /dev/uurandom anuke[m]: when bad entropy is a commodity 12W​arr1024: You'll get "arbitrary" results, which may include results that deceptively look like they validate your idea, until they suddenly don't someday. anuke[m]: yes * anuke[m]: uploaded an image: Screenshot_17:08:04.png (8KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TRDMIwXYzIcuebldPkaLiLDi/Screenshot_17:08:04.png > anuke[m]: very cool terrible rng anuke[m]: trim first and last 3 hex chars for usable number anuke[m]: my linux has pages in 672 byte chunks??? 12W​arr1024: Works until somebody decides to use the trick more than once within the same executible instead of having separate process spawns. 12W​arr1024: Also your prompt is way too fancy and that has gotta break in some pretty interesting ways when you try to ssh in from something with limited termcap support 12W​arr1024: It's sort of like using PID as an RNG on OpenBSD and then seeing what happens when your program is ported to Linux :-D anuke[m]: use pid as rng anuke[m]: then use a forkbomb to increase entropy anuke[m]: but not really anuke[m]: i can ssh in on my phone, powerline works anuke[m]: it only breaks in my ttys anuke[m]: im 99% sure i have to recompile linux to add the triangle characters 12W​arr1024: Oh, and calling back to the original subject that started the string concat perf discussion, i.e. that variadic string concat func: I once made a really bizarre library to implement "up in the air arrays", i.e. arrays that are never packed into a table, but stored entirely in Lua's variadics. 12W​arr1024: You can't actually store a lua list like ... directly into a var without packing it, but you can store a function that returns a variadic list, so I used functions to create passable references to said arrays. 12W​arr1024: It's surprisingly hard to do normal array things, like seeking to an element, concatenating them, determining their length, etc. without ever packing them into a table. anuke[m]: lua_pushvalue(L, 1); to get ...[1] but in lua when anuke[m]: pretty sure select(n, ...) works anuke[m]: which is basically that but with some if statements anuke[m]: and a c call 12W​arr1024: Well, I wasn't doing it in C, I was doing it in pure Lua. anuke[m]: yes anuke[m]: select("#", ...) gets lua_gettop(L) - 1; anuke[m]: why cant you use select anuke[m]: it exists in luajit 12W​arr1024: Oh interesting, is select() a builtin? anuke[m]: yep 12W​arr1024: neat. See if you can think of how to implement it in pure lua, though. 12W​arr1024: I can't be sure that I didn't rely on any "library" functions, but it's definitely more interesting if you have to grow it all from the ground up. anuke[m]: yeah recursion or packing seem like the only ways 12W​arr1024: local function select(n, f, ...) if n < 1 then return end if n == 1 then return f end return select(n-1, ...) end 12W​arr1024: basically variadics act like a linked list sort of in that accessing the head is way easier than accessing the tail 12W​arr1024: I'm trying to remember how I did reverse and concat but it's a lot less obvious 12W​arr1024: I seem to recall that I may have actually used reverse to implement concat somehow? anuke[m]: ooooo lua5.4 has const anuke[m]: i wonder if it inlines things like `const MODE_1 = 5` rubenwardy: local MODE_1 = 5 rubenwardy: would be the syntax rubenwardy: it's dumb anuke[m]: ah anuke[m]: its better than c++ [[attribute]] prefix anuke[m]: like for [[noreturn]] anuke[m]: -2 characters 12W​arr1024: ugh dat syntax. JS's const syntax is much nicer, i.e. the intuitive one. 12W​arr1024: Sucks that Lua doesn't do const because like 98% of my variables in js are consts, and in Lua I'd probably do at least 85%. rubenwardy: eh, it's not reall rubenwardy: attributes make sense, they're annotations rubenwardy: this shouldn't be an annotation, it should be a fundamental type of variable - const MODE_1 =5 anuke[m]: and c++-style deconstructors exist too with metamethod __close anuke[m]: since constants have to be local it would make a lot more sense by replacing local adfeno: Hi, I installed climate_api regional_weather, pova, and player_monoids in v7 mapgen and can`t move. I can only jump. rubenwardy: pova and player monoids will conflict rubenwardy: probably rubenwardy: I vaguely recall movement issues with climate API as well adfeno: rubenwardy: Ah, I see. adfeno: rubenwardy: Thanks, will try removing one or another. Gustavo6046: I have a banana tree farm (Ethereal's banana trees I think?) arranged in a 3x3 sieve grid, where a dirt block with a banana tree on top is in every intersection of the sieve's lines. (Those lines are more for traversal when chopping the trees.) Gustavo6046: Below it is a 2 block tall area where most item drops fall, through the sieve. Gustavo6046: Is there a way to push the items together into a small common area? Water unfortunately doesn't seem to push items, which is sad. I wish Minetest Game had more inteeresting mechanics like that. More ways to impart and manipulate very basic automation (like item propulsion and whatnot). Gustavo6046: Er, impart as in the propulsion part, but yeah, features that could be employed in very basic automation, like imparting propulsion on items and other things. anuke[m]: afaik only gravity can move items Gustavo6046: :< Gustavo6046: maybe there is a mod that pushes items in moving fluid? anuke[m]: using tech mods seems to be your best bet without rewriting the item entity anuke[m]: that belongs in vanilla Gustavo6046: aw Gustavo6046: well, true Gustavo6046: it does anuke[m]: why would a feather be anchored to the ground when in a current Gustavo6046: True Gustavo6046: Minetest is fun, especially modded anuke[m]: im pretty sure its in builtin? anuke[m]: if not check default Gustavo6046: But no matter how much content is added Gustavo6046: I feel like there are basic things missing, things that could make it so much more fun and replayable Gustavo6046: Maybe even make it easier to enjoy for more peopl Gustavo6046: anuke[m]: ? rubenwardy: https://content.minetest.net/packages/TenPlus1/builtin_item/ anuke[m]: the item entity code Gustavo6046: Oh, okay Gustavo6046: oooh anuke[m]: epic Gustavo6046: yes! epic! Gustavo6046: thank you! :D Gustavo6046: also anuke[m]: some of 10+1s stuff belongs in builtin anuke[m]: like that Gustavo6046: do I just set it in world.mt in the server side? Gustavo6046: I mean Gustavo6046: do I have to download them manually? Gustavo6046: Probably not Gustavo6046: I've transferred mods manually when I first set up the server Gustavo6046: which might have caused issues lol anuke[m]: just move it into mods and enable it in minetest.conf rubenwardy: git clone https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/builtin_item Gustavo6046: move it into mods? Gustavo6046: ohh rubenwardy: downloading using git is a good idea Gustavo6046: yeah, it is Gustavo6046: I've done it before rubenwardy: I personally put all my mods into a git repo anuke[m]: yeah anuke[m]: `git pull` to update Gustavo6046: i wish there was a way to manage mods from the command line rubenwardy: and then I put that git repo at worlds/myworld/worldmods anuke[m]: see the suggestion Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: orrrr Gustavo6046: submodules Gustavo6046: :o rubenwardy: yes Gustavo6046: I could make the mods folder a single repo rubenwardy: that's what I meant Gustavo6046: yay Gustavo6046: \o/ anuke[m]: yes anuke[m]: good for syncing Gustavo6046: yes rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/dev_plays_minetest Gustavo6046: good for pulling all at once rubenwardy: there's a script there too for updating them all * Gustavo6046: pulls anuke[m] and rubenwardy a few centimetres closer Gustavo6046: :D Gustavo6046: Anyway Gustavo6046: I have a bunch of mods here Gustavo6046: Hmmm Gustavo6046: I wonder Gustavo6046: I have no idea how I'll convert them into Git submodules without deleting-readding them one by one. hisforever: Dose anybody know how to set up advtrains atc and singles? I'm going in circles lol Gustavo6046: hisforever: circles are pretty! Gustavo6046: My bad, couldn't resist :p hisforever: lo; Guestaco8046 hisforever: understand Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: I think I know what I'll do, I might use ?q=... to get only mods that match the name/id of the original mod folder, and scrape for the git address Gustavo6046: actually I'll scrape the results links, crawl them one by one until I find the one that has an exactly matching mod ID/name Gustavo6046: If multiple are found, might ask about them after the rest is done Gustavo6046: Is this fine by you? Gustavo6046: then I can output a list of mod IDs and their respective git links rubenwardy: sure rubenwardy: ContentDB has an open API, Gustavo6046 rubenwardy: I have ratelimiting in place rubenwardy: as in, it's kept open and I do have protections if it is hit so much. You won't get told off for using it rubenwardy: https://content.minetest.net/help/api/ Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: oh, okay Gustavo6046: I... dunno why I didn't think about asking about an API first, lol. Gustavo6046: But thanks! adfeno: How to use set_nametag to change players nametag? adfeno: I'm trying to make a func for register_chatcommand to do this, but doesn't work adfeno: MWE: adfeno: minetest.register_chatcommand("test", { privs = { server = true }, func = function(playername) minetest.get_player_by_name(playername):set_nametag_attributes({color = {r = 255, g = 255, b = 0}, text = "Tested" }) end }) adfeno: Also, does it also work with Chat name ? adfeno: OK, only works for players overhead, not for chat. Sven_vB: is there a chat command in MT to list all nicknames of users currently online on the server? sfan5: /status Sven_vB: thanks! Wuzzy: fun fact: on JT2 it's not "/status", but "/ls" Wuzzy: because players are actually just files, hence the "ls" command. makes perfect sense. 😉 Gustavo6046: The repo link here is broken. https://content.minetest.net/packages/Mineminer/technic_addons/ rubenwardy: removed rubenwardy: I don't know where it is now rubenwardy: but they've deleted their account Gustavo6046: oh, ok Gustavo6046: alrighty Gustavo6046: I.... don't know how to feel about it. I guess thanks for cleaning the contentdb anyway! Gustavo6046: I mean about the situation as a whole lol rubenwardy: I plan to make a CLI in the future Gustavo6046: ooh rubenwardy: there is actually already one Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: well I was working on some Python code Gustavo6046: It's not really finished, but you might be interested in looking at it. Gustavo6046: It doesn't have a lot either, but it does have some definitions for ContentDB packages, and some utilitie sfor fetching them online Gustavo6046: The package definition is a little incomplete I think, whereas the search result item definition isn't. rubenwardy: was thinking of this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24914 sfan5: !title MinetestBot: sfan5: [CONTENTDB] ContentDB cli, beta release - Minetest Forums rubenwardy: the forums are soooooo slow rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/Niwla2305/contentdb-cli Gustavo6046: ah rubenwardy: not tried it Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: sent you an invite on github, so you can change things too :D Gustavo6046: I mean contributor invite Gustavo6046: But either way Gustavo6046: https://github.com/Gustavo6046/minetest_packages Gustavo6046: Just wanted to put this out on gituhb Gustavo6046: Let me just Gustavo6046: license it real quick rubenwardy: also, I think a CLI aimed at services should also use Git mostly to download things rubenwardy: *servers Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: What I did just looks at metadata rubenwardy: rather than the zip download method the MT client uses Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: contentdb should support Git rubenwardy: it does Gustavo6046: oh Gustavo6046: you mean Gustavo6046: it provides git as well as zip? rubenwardy: there's git repo information, and it links releases to commits Gustavo6046: yes but Gustavo6046: what if a mod doesn't have an associated git repo? rubenwardy: then you have to use zip downloads Gustavo6046: either way ContentDB should be able to provide its own mirror Gustavo6046: or even host its own bare repository if there is no existing repo to mirror Gustavo6046: do you think you can/should do that? Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: I added a readme and licensed it under MIT Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: so, in an uselessness scale from 0 (way too useful) to 10 (delightfully useless), how highly do you rate it? :P lol Gustavo6046: also, sorry if I'm bothering you too much lol Gustavo6046: Anyways Gustavo6046: I'm having an error trying to start the server now - 'beds' ( https://content.minetest.net/packages/sorcerykid/beds/ ) complains about not being able to load player spawn data. https://termbin.com/tz3z Gustavo6046: I guess I'll just not load it Gustavo6046: I wonder if beds will work now after fixing up little issues in the mods list, but probably not. Gustavo6046: Btw minetest_game is from master, but Minetest is 5.3.0. Gustavo6046: I realized that was probably what anuke[m] meant Gustavo6046: The other day Gustavo6046: Running the server still produces a bunch of warnings lol, but they don't seem to mean anything. I think they already were there, plus I finally fixed the dependency resolution issues that seemed to benignly plague the server before. (Again, not fatal, but not nice either) 11J​onathon: you really should checkout version 5.3.0 to go with your minetest version of 5.3.0 Gustavo6046: Oh, ok Gustavo6046: Hm, why is this not in the contentdb? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18429 Gustavo6046: Also thanks @Jonathon ! Gustavo6046: VanessaE: also what cx384 said about pipeworks' API and being unable to take items out of a Storage Interface, is it true? Or at least, is it true *now*? Gustavo6046: Check the ofrum post Gustavo6046: the "Pipeworks note" under the download/github links Gustavo6046: s/ofrum/forum VanessaE: I have no idea, Gustavo6046. ask nore :) Gustavo6046: Hmmm. Gustavo6046: Gosh, esc key making it exit.... why not at least a confirmation modal? rubenwardy: making what exit? rubenwardy: if you mean the error dialog, that's a bug which has been fixed in 5.4 (releasing soon) Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: no, I mean esc makes the game exit, but it doesn't even ask rubenwardy: it shouldn't Gustavo6046: I hit Esc to exit modals like the "Invalid pasword" one, when I mistype the password Gustavo6046: Ah rubenwardy: that's the error dialog Gustavo6046: oh I see Gustavo6046: ah I see! rubenwardy: the error dialog shows lua errors and "access denied" errors Gustavo6046: thanks rubenwardy: so yeah, that'll be fixed Gustavo6046: Ahh okay Gustavo6046: thanks! Gustavo6046: hmm, I wonder which of those mods I installed added this uwnanted (read: pesky and annoying) behaviour of torches dealing damage. aMiazing: My client was being weird, so apologies if this is a duplicate aMiazing: Are there any mods or features to put a transparent preview of the block you are about to put down? aMiazing: Also alternatively is it possible to make an entity visible to only one character? aMiazing: IRC client I mean anuke[m]: sscsm would probably allow that 07s​kyliner_369: just trying to find the info but googling is no help... so when you tick the box, host server, is the password box underneath a user password or a server password? 05e​xe_virus: That should be your player password anuke[m]: are 3-6 year old issues likely to be implemented anuke[m]: usually theyre the spiciest Extexo: What is the id in hud_change(id, stat, value) ? Extexo: Oh nvm I remember lol Extexo: https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/e4d9f6d869cecb00/Screenshot_2021-02-11-20-10-27.png Extexo: Uhh Extexo: Does the MT beta on Android not work? sfan5: Extexo: if you install 5.4.0-dev it should work MiniontobyPI: hi MiniontobyPI: btw, if anyone can fix capturetheflag game, plz tell me if yo ahve fixed the game crashng while loading new map BuckarooBanzai: !seen gpcf MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: gpcf was last seen at 2021-02-09 21:49:48 UTC on #minetest TechDude: Wuzzy u there? Sorry for pinging u but I heard about ur mineclone Wuzzy: yo dawg TechDude: Mineclone 2 to be exact Krock: ... and ... Wuzzy: yes I made MineClone 2, with help of others ^_^. I have stepped down, and kay27 and EliasFleckenstein took maintainership TechDude: im curious why u didn’t make it so u can trade with villagers TechDude: afk a while btw Wuzzy: you can trade with villagers Wuzzy: but they do not spawn, because there are no villages Wuzzy: but maybe villages will come in a future version. who knows? TechDude: I mean form this link TechDude: https://github.com/SonicTheCrafter/MineClone2/blob/master/mods/MAPGEN/mcl_structures/init.lua Wuzzy Wuzzy: 1) This is an unofficial fork TechDude: And here https://github.com/SonicTheCrafter/MineClone2/blob/master/mods/ENTITIES/mobs_mc/villager.lua TechDude: oh ok Wuzzy: 2) the village "structure" is a static ugly village that only works on flat works. its very legacy and old TechDude: Then where is the official version? I’d like to contribute with some villager code I’m writing and some texture redos TechDude: Ah nvm found it TechDude: Heh I’m now attempting to redraw the Minecraft diamond, etc textures because I don’t think the current ones in mineclone are that good TechDude: (I’m not copying) TechDude: It’s one thing I AM good at besides piano and programming and minecraft TechDude: Finished the emerald and the diamond I think I’ll do the..... idk Sven_vB: hi! to make screenshots at pecise times of ingame day, I'd like to get some kind of time signal (actually, celestial angle) in my debug output, on a server that disables CSM. what options do I have? Sven_vB: using MT 5.3.0 TechDude: Er idk I don’t do CSMs TechDude: i do textures and somewhat advanced mods Krock: write a mod Krock: but problem is that you cannot make screenshots using SSM TechDude: And I have better prioritied TechDude: Priorites* Krock: so either you do manual rendering or allow CSMs. no alternative. TechDude: And afk TechDude: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/VvOVoLsU/default_diamond.png TechDude: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/e92gyYI5/mcl_core_emerald.png TechDude: Rate my textures plz Krock: 7/10. emerald is not centred TechDude: Well I can’t center them TechDude: its a odd number of px TechDude: so I did a guess which direction CodeAndFix: hi Krock: hi CodeAndFix: Krock :) CodeAndFix: ltns Krock: wat CodeAndFix: lang nich gesehen CodeAndFix: kann man irgendwie sehen wieso das server announcement nicht klappt obwohl laut meldung gesendet? letzt hat es noch geklappt.. verbose bringt auch nix Krock: (moved to german channel) TechDude: Is MineClone2 villages fixed. TechDude: ? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Send attachments instantly before set_pos (#10235) 13375bcd6 https://git.io/Jt6SU (152021-02-12T19:54:06Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update German translation (#2821) 1346136bb https://git.io/Jt6SI (152021-02-12T19:55:27Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ExeVirus -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Safe texture compression (#2808) 136bd0599 https://git.io/Jt6SL (152021-02-12T19:55:18Z) Extexo: Is it possible (without using globalsteps) to attach an image_waypoint to a player, so it behaves like a nametag? Extexo: If not then should I submit an issue? sfan5: why would this not be possible? Extexo: Well I managed to attach it using a globalstep but that was extremely laggy sfan5: that's not surprise since you can only update the position manually sfan5: surprising* Extexo: Yeah Extexo: Kk Extexo: I did an issue Extexo: Hopefully it ends up getting considered Extexo: Otherwise my whole mod is out the window lol thodt: hi everybody thodt: may i ask for help with formspecs? TechDude: Umm ig TechDude: but I’m not experienced in the least at them Gustavo6046: So. Gustavo6046: I'm running a 5.3.0 server, on Minetest Game, with a bunch of mods, but not that many. And if I try to sleep on a bed, the server crashes. The error it emits is: Gustavo6046: https://termbin.com/t6sog delta23: latest git also crashes when 'leave bed' is clicked delta23: w/out mods delta23: in multiplayer, not sure about singleplayer delta23: singleplayer it doesn't crash since there isn't a 'leave bed' option MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix crash on exit of bed formspec if not sleeping (#2826) 13624dafc https://git.io/JtKZ2 (152021-02-11T11:30:37Z) Sven_vB: hi :) hisforever: Hi I mada a train station with clock on tower it. I had to move it back but my clock faces are hanfing in mid air. this I made my self with gemalde mos. How do I get rid of the clock faces? here sa past bin  hisforever: mos = mod hisforever: https://imgur.com/a/JKAOYgE hisforever: there s a picture Sven_vB: is there a way in the worldedit mod to issue multiple commands in one chat line? 11J​onathon: i think worldedit addons does that 11J​onathon: let me check 11J​onathon: //multi command https://github.com/sbrl/Minetest-WorldEditAdditions/blob/master/Chat-Command-Reference.md 11J​onathon: anyways, that addon mod is amazing Sven_vB: thanks! aMiazing: Can find_nodes_in_area be used to find nodes which are not a specific node? I'm trying to determine if a given volume is clear/only has air before I place down a schematic sfan5: you can always find all air nodes and see if the amount of them matches the area volume aMiazing: True aMiazing: I was thinking that but I wanted to see if there was a simpler solution aMiazing: How do you determine the lengh of a table in lua anuke[m]: #table anuke[m]: works only for the array part of a table aMiazing: Thanks! beanzilla: What's the best way to check if a variable is not nil? sfan5: var ~= nil beanzilla: Thank you. sfan5: if it doesn't matter whether it's false or nil you can also use 'not var' beanzilla: I don't know how but in my copy of 5.4.0-def-9a177f0 I go to right click on a default:fancy_bed and the server crashes... in builtin/common/vector.lua it blows up trying to get the length of nil... so a simple work around so far is to just check if it's nil return 0 else do the math Krock: update minetest_game beanzilla: Ah, ha... ok so that's what I was missing. Thank you again. sfan5: other way around sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10711 Krock: oh I thought it was https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/624dafc1 beanzilla: Krock, perhaps... but I crash as soon as I right click... I don't even get into bed... but I have just done a git pull of the minetest_game so let's see if I still get the crash. Krock: err well, seems like updating Minetest rather than MTG will solve it. whatever, if both is up-to-date it should work beanzilla: Fixed now... Thank you both. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! anon9: Has anyone here considered making a version specialised for the Raspberry Pi 4/400? anon9: It never specified that the Linux version is ARM optimised... And it just seems like a great opportunity. Hawk777: Given that Minetest is shipped as source code, I’d expect that to be a question for your distribution’s package maintainer, not for the Minetest developers; alternatively you can always compile it yourself with whatever flags you want. anon9: With a recent resurgence of ARM-powered Laptops (the most evident example the new Macbooks), I figured an RPi4/Manjaro ARM optimised version is logical. anon9: Speaking of laptops, I don't think anyone tried running the Play Store version of the game on a Chromebook (I've only ever seen the Linux version on a Chromebook), or a Pinebook for that matter. Hawk777: I don’t disagree, I just think you might be addressing the wrong audience. For example, if your Raspberry Pi or ARM laptop or whatever is running Debian, then either you installed the Debian Minetest package which is maintained by the Debian team (not the Minetest team), or you compiled it yourself in which case you can use any optimization flags you want. anuke[m]: you can always -O3 -march=native anuke[m]: and whatever other compiler optimisation flags there are for arm MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace 'minetest.' with 'core.' in builtin 134db7fb4 https://git.io/JtK5h (152021-02-11T10:18:22Z) hisforever: Hi I'm having trouble getting rid oc a clock face in my world its floating, I used the move tool in world to moce my station baco from the tracks. but the clock pic didn't follow the building. here is a image so you can see what I'm talking about hisforever: https://imgur.com/a/SwffzGG 11J​onathon: clearobjects 11J​onathon: altho that will take out other objects in the loaded areas 11J​onathon: i assume you used worledit, so set a regoin around it and use //clearobjects 11J​onathon: i think is the command hisforever: MTDiscord thanks I'll try that brb 11J​onathon: my name isnt mtdiscord, but ok Fuchs: well, that's bridges for you Fuchs: and it decided to colour your nick a bright blue, so for people with white backgrounds ... 11J​onathon: if your using a white background seems like there own fault :p 11J​onathon: *there hisforever: ok Jonathan: that wirked thanks so much hisforever: thanks hisforever: worked 11J​onathon: np swift110: hey all 11J​onathon: signs also use objects, so you will have to clear, and then punch the sign to update it Gustavo6046: I dug far down, plopped a bunch of ladders Gustavo6046: now I have to go up all of them Gustavo6046: but I cannot leave it going up while I check another window Gustavo6046: if I unfocus it stops :/ Gustavo6046: to be fair, I wouldn't walk while talking ingame, so going up ladders while talking elsewhere would make less sense, I guess Swift110-mobile: hey all Swift110-mobile: have you done any more books Krock Swift110-mobile: ? Zughy[m]1: is there a way to redefine the hand per player at runtime? sfan5: you can swap out the hand for any item at runtime sfan5: but as you probably know, you can't define new items at runtime Zughy[m]1: can you give me a hint about that swap thing? (please) sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/b28749057a614075c1f9ba3f96bb86a6e248a210/doc/lua_api.txt#L3057-L3059 FrostRanger[m]: Bit of an odd question, but does anyone know of a way to convert .x files to b3d files? I'm trying to work on converting nssm to mobkit and I have no idea how well .x files would work here FrostRanger[m]: in any case, I'd imagine it'd be less awkward to work with b3d files than .x files Guest22: Can someone knowledgable check out this site to see if they are distributing malware? It claims to have version 5.4.0 of Minetest for download, but I thought 5.3.0 was the latest version. Usually someone faking a newer version from a non-legit site is a sign of malintent: https://www.techspot.com/downloads/5585-minetest.html Guest22: And while I'm here, does anyone know of a mod that remembers user names for logging in without having to remember them all? Something like a drop down list of all previously used login names would be great. sfan5: 5.4.0 is not released yet but they could have packaged the release candidate or similar sfan5: okay the version number is just wrong, if you click on the download link for windows you get the exact same ZIP you'd download from minetest.net Guest22: Ok, well that's what made it suspicious to me. Guest22: Anyone know of a mod like what I'm looking for? 09s​rinivas: Guest22 i am writing a password manager + launcher for minetest Guest22: I hope it's better than the one I checked out earlier that stores passwords in a plain text file. I'd never use that. 09s​rinivas: however, progress is slow, so it will take a few weeks before i can make a real public release 09s​rinivas: and it stores it in a sqlitecb with chacha20 encryption Guest22: without salt? 09s​rinivas: with salt lol Guest22: That seems pretty easy to reverse if not. 09s​rinivas: heheh Guest22: ok. 09s​rinivas: i take my responsibilities as a dev seriously ronoaldo: Hello there! I achieved 100% translation fot pt-BR :D 09s​rinivas: and do not let bad/useless stuff out of my machine Guest22: Can I use your mod without saving passwords if I only want to to save my username? 09s​rinivas: its not a mod lol 09s​rinivas: its a full blown application 09s​rinivas: that bundles its own engine etc rubenwardy: Guest22: if you hash passwords in a password manager then you can't use the password 09s​rinivas: writtenin Qt + Python rubenwardy: like, hashes are irreversible by design 09s​rinivas: rubenwardy: hashing != encryption rubenwardy: exactly Guest22: I didn't want to save my passwords, just my usernames on a drop down list inside the minecraft client server page 09s​rinivas: chacha20 is reversible rubenwardy: encryption is reversible with the key 09s​rinivas: hm rubenwardy: but hashing is not anuke[m]: then its not a hash 09s​rinivas: exactly 09s​rinivas: no one claimed it was, did they? rubenwardy: Guest22 mentioned salting the passwords and said "That seems pretty easy to reverse if not." rubenwardy: which is why I said "if you hash passwords in a password manager then you can't use the password" anuke[m]: you can 09s​rinivas: well, KDF's use a salt too Guest22: The game already remembers the last used username, why can't it remember all my usernames in a drop down list, with a little x in case I want to delete them? Honestly I feel it should have been built in like that. anuke[m]: use the hashes as the password Guest22: So maybe it can be taken as a recommendation to a dev now. 09s​rinivas: and IV's are arguably like salts, but not exactly 09s​rinivas: Guest22: since ye mention it, i will try to add it into my launcher rubenwardy: if you're going to hash the passwords then you might as well randomly generate them Guest22: What operating system is your launcher made for? Guest22: I never use Windows. 09s​rinivas: it should be crossplatform, but works only on linux 09s​rinivas: and, no, it is not yet "public" anuke[m]: yes 09s​rinivas: i am still working on it anuke[m]: randomly generating passwords is good Guest22: But why make it a separate software and not add it to the minetest client built in? 09s​rinivas: but not very portable anuke[m]: just encrypt them with the de's keychain 09s​rinivas: thats because i have zero interest in formspecs 09s​rinivas: and would rather go with $widgeting toolchain Guest22: To be honest I've never used a password manager in all my life. I don't trust them. anuke[m]: why not rubenwardy: " it should be crossplatform, but works only on linux" is also how I do software anuke[m]: keepassxc is free software anuke[m]: if you dont trust it rtfsc 09s​rinivas: anuke: different DE's have different API's i have no interest in checking for the million ones rubenwardy: You can have local-only password managers if you don't trust sync 09s​rinivas: yeah anuke[m]: yeah 09s​rinivas: thats what i am doing Guest22: Any password saved on a computer is temptation to a good cracker. rubenwardy: your accounts are much much more likely to be compromised by reusing passwords than from your password manager 09s​rinivas: ^ Guest22: I never reuse passwords either. rubenwardy: (x) doubt anuke[m]: 40 char passphrase locking 256 byte random password database Guest22: I have a good memory. anuke[m]: lol Guest22: I doubt mind if you doubt it or not ruby, I'm not here to impress you. rubenwardy: even if you do have different passwords, I doubt the entropy is that good anuke[m]: if youre not using random passwords wyd anuke[m]: keepassxc has a button for it ffs rubenwardy: basically yeah Guest22: As I just said: I don't mind if you doubt it. That's your issue, not mine. rubenwardy: Well anyway, yo do you 09s​rinivas: i prefer xkcd ish passwords 09s​rinivas: you know, correcthorsebatterysrtaple 09s​rinivas: and the like Guest22: You're one of those cocky guys who thinks he knows everything, I've read your posts on many forums as well. anuke[m]: thats good for locking your database anuke[m]: you can afford to not use random bullshit password for database as its local rubenwardy: jesus, there's no need for a personal attack 09s​rinivas: yeah, but for the sketchy sites, best to go with what keepassx suggests Guest22: ok ruby warden. anuke[m]: calm down Guest22: But I'm not Jesus, even if I am fairly holy. 09s​rinivas: good for you anuke[m]: gg rubenwardy: 🙄 rubenwardy: I think I may have been rude which wasn't intended, a better way of phrasing would have been "It's hard for anyone to make and remember truly random and different passwords for all the sites you use, this is something a password manager is intended to do" ronoaldo: I use lastpass currently, and yet I got some exposed passwords already from data leaks ... ronoaldo: password reuse is the worst think that could happen, combined with password patterns... ronoaldo: if a leaked passowrd revels a pattern you use to make your passwords mnemonic, you are the risk because attackers can build targeted dictionary attacks rubenwardy: yeah, it's worth signing up to haveibeenpwned too rubenwardy: lastpass probably uses haveibeenpwned to check for exposed emails and passwords ronoaldo: I'm not sure if lastpass is the best option... but it's the most convenient for me (cross devices, cross OS, linux and Android support) ronoaldo: yeah, I had a few times :-/ anuke[m]: keepass is free software anuke[m]: use anything you want to sync it anuke[m]: or just have it on a central server using a vpn if you need to access it away from home ronoaldo: i used it with keepassdroid... and having it keep in sync without losing data was a mess ronoaldo: I went from lastpass -> keepass -> back to lastpass due to some passwords being lost with my attempt at multi-device sync ronoaldo: browser support was also not very good, with passifox or the equivalent for chrome raynoldHU: /!\ this channel has moved to ##hamradio /!\ FrostRanger[m]: I use keepassxc and keepassdx on android ronoaldo: FrostRanger[m]: do you have some sort of sync for your db? FrostRanger[m]: yes, i use nextcloud FrostRanger[m]: haven't ran into any issues with that so far ronoaldo: cool! I'll check them out then! nextcloud is new to me :) FrostRanger[m]: you will have to self host nextcloud though FrostRanger[m]: it's not hard, but it is an extra step ronoaldo: got it ronoaldo: Am i correct to say that NextCloud is sort of a Google Drive replacement, which I host by myself? FrostRanger[m]: basically, yes sabre1041: /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\ sfan5: !kick sabre1041 spambot rejoc: /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\ sfan5: !op anuke[m]: bruh anuke[m]: why would someone fall for that anuke[m]: oh random bot joined and said this channel is dead, better believe it and not anyone else anuke[m]: seeya guys sfan5: the intention is to annoy, not for anyone to fall for it anuke[m]: waste of time rubenwardy: yeah, any to get people to go to that channel and complain FrostRanger[m]: there are a lot of trolls who evidently have nothing better to do than get on people's nerves FrostRanger[m]: whether it's a waste of time or not means nothing to them MinetestBot: 02[git] 04TotalCaesar659 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update URLs to HTTPS (#10923) 139736b9c https://git.io/JtoCj (152021-02-10T13:34:21Z) definitely_a: What happened? Bots? Krock: yes Sven_vB: in a punch node event handler, how can I check whether the punching player stands atop the punched node? Sven_vB: (modding in 5.3.0) Sven_vB: (server-side) sfan5: if player:get_pos().y > pos.y + 0.5 then sfan5: not accurate enough? Sven_vB: how do I get that player ref? Extexo: In the punch node event Sven_vB: oh I see it's the 3rd arg... then my logging is broken. Sven_vB: thanks! Extexo: Does anybody know if it Is possible to have a line break in a formspec list item? Extexo: textlist* Krock: no. you'll need a textarea or elements in a scroll container Krock: you can put \n in textlists, but that won't work as expected Extexo: Yeah it just goes off into the next textlist item Extexo: So there's no way to do it? Extexo: So the textlist items are a set size? Krock: ^ Extexo: Oof Sven_vB: do we have a Markdown-rendered version of doc/lua_api.txt somewhere? rubenwardy: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ Sven_vB: thanks! Zughy[m]1: what's the best way to make a player unclickable, like it had no collisions at all? Zughy[m]1: because `collision_box` doesn't seem to work. Or maybe PlayerAPI is overriding it every step, Idk rubenwardy: is there a pointable obj property jaydemir: installed Minetest 5, installed 'bows' mod from content tab,no bow in inventory and cant craft. Is there a command I'm spuposed to run or something? Hawk777: If you already had a world, you need to go into the world configuration and turn on themod. Hawk777: *the mod Hawk777: Newly installed mods aren’t enabled by default in existing worlds IIRC. jaydemir: didnt think of that thanks! Zughy[m]1: huh, yes, there is. So if I cast a ray through it, it shouldn't be able to detect the object, correct? rubenwardy: hmm, not sure which raycasts use rubenwardy: worst case, you can manually iterate hisforever: Hi I frogot gow to stop time. I think its /set time_speed 0 ? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix crash in tab_online when cURL is disabled 13b287490 https://git.io/JtrYs (152021-02-09T12:41:11Z) MiniontobyPI: hi MiniontobyPI: can someone helps me MiniontobyPI: https://termbin.com/p2yr MiniontobyPI: i am trying to make an menu MiniontobyPI: to manage my minetest servers MiniontobyPI: i want to have an checklist to see all mods MiniontobyPI: can someone helpme? MiniontobyPI: or should i ask at an bash channel anuke[m]: ls ~/.minetest/mods -1 anuke[m]: yes Guest20520: Hello everyone, I would like to use Minetest for a youth project. I have rented a server privately so that all participants can log in via the IP address. Unfortunately, logging in as a client via the Minetest GUI does not work properly. I suspect that I am missing an error somewhere. Unfortunately, I can't really find anything online that fits my problem. My server knowledge is also not Guest20520: the most extensive. Thanks in advance for the help! MiniontobyPI: i need to chec if it is enabled or not sfan5: can you be more specific on "does not work properly"? Guest20520: I mean I can not connect as a client to my private server (which I have set up before in Minetest) Guest20520: I get the error message: 'connection timed out.' Guest20520: if i try to cnnect as a client rubenwardy: is it being hosted publicly to the internet? sfan5: could be the firewall rubenwardy: You can try doing /msg MinetestBot up IPADDRESS PORT rubenwardy: for example MiniontobyPI: thanks for the ls -1 dir rubenwardy: /msg MinetestBot !up rubenwardy.com 30000 rubenwardy: missing ! Guest20520: no, I have not announced the server (checkbox empty). it should be used in a closed group. rubenwardy: public doesn't mean announced in this context, I mean is it to be used over the internet rubenwardy: the MinetestBot tell can test whether it is accessible rubenwardy: *tool rubenwardy: It'll probably be a firewall or port forwarding issue Guest20520: @rubenwardy: ok, i will check that MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Smoothen lava sounds at loop points (#2820) 133d95fce https://git.io/JtrlO (152021-02-09T16:34:40Z) Megaf: Hello everyone :) 11J​onathon: Hi khimaros[m]: is there a simple CLI client for minetest that is well suited to server admin tasks? erlehmann: https://nitter.snopyta.org/taviso/status/1359209259385294850 erlehmann: > Yikes, someone found a buffer overflow in GNU screen that's reachable via irssi... it's almost like the old days. The reporter says it was found in the wild, apparently used to DoS a minecraft server. 🤷‍♂️ erlehmann: https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2021/02/09/7 gpcf: hi gpcf: while I was verifying some tape backups, I found out that minetest saves the player creation date in the (postgres) player database gpcf: CREATE TABLE public.player ( [...] gpcf: creation_date timestamp without time zone DEFAULT now() NOT NULL, gpcf: is there anyway to get this from inside the game? Krock: gpcf: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4802-L4806 Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L8425 Krock: no, there's no direct postgres API definitely_a: yo gpcf: Krock: that does not include any way to find out the first login gpcf: from what I read MinetestBot: 02[git] 04kilbith -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix animation_image support in scroll containers 136591597 https://git.io/JtVZY (152021-02-08T00:04:38Z) Wuzzy: how do I test in Lua whether a file exists? Wuzzy: without using insecure environment rubenwardy: check return value of io.open Wuzzy: 🙁 rubenwardy: local function file_exists(path) local file = io.open(path, "r") if file then file:close() return true end return false end rubenwardy: plus newlines Wuzzy: wait, is io.open available in insecure env? rubenwardy: there was a util function for this but it was removed rubenwardy: yes Wuzzy: yaaay Wuzzy: no wait Wuzzy: wait, is io.open available in SECURE env? rubenwardy: the places you can read are limited to mod dirs and world dirs rubenwardy: also yes Wuzzy: phew hisforever: Hi I'm trying to add a clock face to the billboard mod. so I have the orgnal nods.lua and my addition on a pastbin. I can't see anything I'm ding wrong. https://pastebin.com/27e3P4aA hisforever: here ia an image of the mt error hisforever: https://imgur.com/a/UH09YVA Hawk777: Line 82 has a brace pointing the wrong direction. Though the error message is actually file not found, so do you in fact have the file mentioned (/home/hisforever/.minetest/ods/billboard/nodes.lua)? hisforever: yes I do thanls Hawk777 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04kilbith -> 03minetest/minetest: Pause menu: Fix segfault on u/down key input 131d64e65 https://git.io/JtwLc (152021-02-08T17:56:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update game APIs for use_texture_alpha deprecation 13aa9cc39 https://git.io/Jtai4 (152021-02-07T10:48:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix deprecated alpha / use_texture_alpha use 1308b13c9 https://git.io/JtaiB (152021-02-07T10:48:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: weather: Fix error caused by missing biomes 13c1b236b https://git.io/JtaiR (152021-02-07T10:48:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Rewrite touch event conversion (#10636) 134caf156 https://git.io/Jtaiu (152021-02-07T10:48:30Z) DrFrankenstone: two of those commits reference use_texture_alpha deprecation, what is that, lua_api.txt doesn't say it's deprecated sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/4caf156be5baf80e6bcdb6797937ffabbe476a0f/doc/lua_api.txt#L7358-L7359 DrFrankenstone: ahh, thanks rubenwardy: The change log lists all deprecated things DrFrankenstone: oh, on the wiki, good to know hisforever: Hi I have a pastbin https://pastebin.com/K4nVWHpS my Mt crashes at startup? hisforever: my new OS is Mint 20 numzero: hisforever: you appear to have weird MT configuration numzero: did you configure it to start directly to the game, without main menu? hisforever: NO KIDDING nunzreo lol numzero: did I misunderstood something? did it show the menu? hisforever: no but I'll delete all mods and start over numzero: wait hisforever: yes I did that numzero: ah well numzero: basically, there are 2 problems numzero: 1. it can’t write to the world directory numzero: 2. there are 2 mods called `lpanes` numzero: the latter prevents it from starting the world hisforever: ok thanks thats a big help numzero: while the former makes it crash afterwards numzero: make sure that directory is writable hisforever: ok thanks I'll check the mods out thanks again God bless my friend hisforever: I have to get blood chart before Mt bue MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Use consistent temp folder path (#10892) 133a8c371 https://git.io/Jtada (152021-02-07T15:27:24Z) hisforever: I just switch to Mint v20, I installed mt 5.1.1 How Do I get the latist onto Mint Os? rubenwardy: I believe mint is ubuntu based? rubenwardy: you can use the official ppa rubenwardy: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable hisforever: thanks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Reduce empty translation error to infostream 13857dbcd https://git.io/JtabS (152021-02-07T16:03:48Z) mazes_83: hi, I have a world which crashes as soon at it connects, some callbacks are called on one object and checks for param2 which is not defined mazes_83: any hints on how to get rid of such error ? numzero: logs please rubenwardy: I suspected this is the item drop error, this is fixed in 5.4.0 rubenwardy: what you can do is create a new player (check "host server" and choose a different name) and then join and run /clearobjects rubenwardy: this will delete all mobs, dropped items, etc rubenwardy: alternatively, you could update to 5.4.0 early rubenwardy: or backport the fix rubenwardy: 5.4.0 will be released in the next wek sfan5: or apply the patch to builtin, can be done with an ordinary text editor rubenwardy: you may have trouble with notepad, which doesn't like \n rubenwardy: unless W10 is different mazes_83: ok, I already tried to use another player, but he was to close to the other player position mazes_83: fortunately, spawn point for new players isn't that close, and clearobject was sufficent mazes_83: to update, I'll stick to my distro things, I know for sure gentoo update minetest quite fast (5.3 was in repo less than one week after release) mazes_83: thanks for the /clearobjects tip mazes_83: and yes I saw the error was with one object "falling", my son plays a lot with installing and testing modules, he was on "lucky_blocks" spawning "loots" giov4[m]: Hey, so, I noticed that declaring the global minetest table in a local one (`local minetest = minetest`) improves performances, is perhaps any reason not to do it? rubenwardy: none at all rubenwardy: putting things in locals is recommended rubenwardy: you can also do local thing = minetest.thing rubenwardy: although, note that that can break mod compat if mods override it Krock: just don't do it unless you're calling a function a million times per second giov4[m]: right, thanks hisforever: Hi I shure would love to know what I'm doing wrong here is a pastbin https://pastebin.com/XM6wB8TN hisforever: My os is Manjaro Hawk777: “Unknown node: default:chest” would appear to be a problem. Chests should be part of Minetest Game. Do you have an up-to-date Minetest Game? Mine is in ~/.minetest/games/minetest_game. hisforever: yes I have mt 5.3.0 hisforever: every thing is in the right places rubenwardy: Hopper is missing a dep on default hisforever: ok so I'll just unstall the hopper hisforever: brb hisforever: its working now thanks rubenwardy Extexo: Is there a way to make to make an ABM require an interaction of 2 blocks with the subject? Extexo: So for example when lava source touches both water and acid activate the ABM 12W​arr1024: You can check for neighbors in the ABM registration itself, to be able to require a node to have at least one neighbor. Anything fancier and you may have to do the check yourself inside the action callback, which has some (usually mild) performance considerations. rubenwardy: yeah, I'd have the rarer node - acid - be one of the ABM neighbours 12W​arr1024: Anything you can do to avoid the action function firing at all (i.e. using the rarest nodes for the registration built-in checks) tends to make things run more efficiently. Extexo: But how do I make it so it needs 3 things to make the reaction? 12W​arr1024: Use neighbors for the first thing (rarest) and then check the other 2 things in actoin Extexo: Ah ok Extexo: So there's no built-in way to do it 12W​arr1024: You can even make it so it requires 4 things that way, by using neighbors for the first and checking the other 3 in action 12W​arr1024: Yeah, built-in things don't go all that far with ABMs, you have to use action for quite a bit. 12W​arr1024: It's not too hard to make the action code efficient, so the biggest cost I often find myself paying is the overhead just to have action called at all, since it requires a C++/Lua round trip. 12W​arr1024: (per node) Extexo: Ah ok 08a​ppguru: I found pgimeno in the wild: https://love2d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=220633#p220633 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix double free caused by CGUITTFont code 130f74c7a https://git.io/Jt25l (152021-02-06T12:34:56Z) BuckarooBanzai: !up 2a02:c207:2051:9958::1 MinetestBot: [2a02:c207:2051:9958::1]:30000 is up (26ms) BuckarooBanzai: !up 95.111.231.234 MinetestBot: 95.111.231.234:30000 is up (22ms) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Reduce ore noise_parms error to deprecation warning (#10921) 13fbb9ef3 https://git.io/Jt25S (152021-02-06T12:46:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04srifqi -> 03minetest/minetest: Fall back to default when rendering mode (3d_mode) is set invalid (#1… 133ac07ad https://git.io/Jt2dv (152021-02-06T12:47:12Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update translation templates 139d419bf https://git.io/Jt2NT (152021-02-06T14:07:07Z) sibachian: anyone solved the issue on chromebook with a limited 90 view angle from mouse input? sibachian: i tried turning on the option to let linux apps take over mouse, but then i can't start the game at all. Danny[m]: Good evening. How do you handle registration for servers in Minetest? It tells me to enter the password because it's the first time I'm joining, but when I do it says that the fields don't match. Even though, there is just one field 🤔 Krock: Danny[m]: when you connect to a server there's two boxes Krock: 4 actually Krock: server address, server IP, name and password. you're supposed to fill all of those Krock: then re-type your password afterwards Danny[m]: Oh, now I get it. So I have to fill one on the server selection screen and then confirm it afterwards... Not as intuitive as one would expect. Thank you very much, Krock Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Danny[m]: lol what's that for? Danny[m]: Just tried Minetest multiplayer for the first time. Seems great 🥳 09s​rinivas: Danny : if you are still around, you may be interested in my launcher for minetest... It is very pre alpha rn, but has a builtin password manager Danny[m]: Danny : if you are st"> Oh that's interesting. Share a link 09s​rinivas: https://github.com/samarth-ramesh/mtlauncher 09s​rinivas: it has no server list 09s​rinivas: so be warned 09s​rinivas: only supports linux rn 09s​rinivas: also 09s​rinivas: Danny ^ 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: @sfan5 esp, or anyone else who can help: 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: does anyone know what is happening in the following terminal pic? 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/807670831894888488/error.PNG Krock: timeout Krock: increase curl_timeout Krock: or fix your dns server 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: ok, the curl is set to 8 atm sfan5: sounds like it couldn't reach the serverlist yes 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: what is the dns server? sfan5: if you do curl servers.minetest.net in the terminal, does that work? Krock: at 8? that setting value is in milliseconds 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: ok, the curl is set to 5000 atm 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: sry, 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: curl (6) could not resolve host servers.minetest.net 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: thats the error message I get for curl servers.minetest.net sfan5: then there's an issue with your dns server 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: how do I fix that? 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: *start to fix 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: My other server, hosted from a raspberry pi, is still up 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: Huh, maybe I should restart my VM 09s​rinivas: that can help 09s​rinivas: also try doing nslookup/$dnsclientlookup on servers.minetest.net 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: as a terminal cmd? 09s​rinivas: ye 09s​rinivas: nslookup servers.minetest.net 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/807677308382085120/Capture2.PNG 06M​isterE, Modder of Sorts: hey, the server works now... the fix was to reboot. Thx guys! 09s​rinivas: m 09s​rinivas: nice Danny[m]: https://github.com/sa"> Thank you TMcSquared: heyo all 11J​onathon: hiya TMcSquared: my old username was ThomasMonroe for those who remeber TMcSquared: hey @garywhite TMcSquared: wow its been a while since ive been on IRC TMcSquared: longerstaff13 whats up man? gry: welcome back :-) longerstaff13: holy longerstaff13: is that tre? TMcSquared: yeah its me longerstaff13: dude! where ya been :D TMcSquared: need the password of Dogmios to verify? TMcSquared: working my butt off at my job lol longerstaff13: oof lol longerstaff13: be careful of thr covid TMcSquared: hey, im a manager now, so theres that longerstaff13: the TMcSquared: what have you been up to? realthegooduser: Hi. I have a question TMcSquared: that is great that you have a question. realthegooduser: it's about a mod I have and something went wrong (if this is for me) 12W​arr1024: Don't spoil it for everyone LoneWolfHT: So far there are more statements than questions. Sounds like a pretty bad plot TMcSquared: heyo LoneWolfHT garywhite: hello TMcSquared garywhite: sorry, was having dinner Emerald2: Wow TMcSquared's internet sucks. MiniontobyPI: Hi MiniontobyPI: may i get help? MiniontobyPI: its with csm MiniontobyPI: my server yet got crashed MiniontobyPI: Bus error (core dumped) MiniontobyPI: https://pastebin.com/V4mg5KGp MiniontobyPI: it shows nothing MiniontobyPI: what wrong? MiniontobyPI: *it wont directly works, because some values i set but not in the paste* BuckarooBanzai: !up pandorabox.io MinetestBot: pandorabox.io:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) BuckarooBanzai: !up test.pandorabox.io MinetestBot: test.pandorabox.io:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) BuckarooBanzai: yeah, right :P MiniontobyPI: https://pastebin.com/V4mg5KGp MiniontobyPI: plz help me ^ BuckarooBanzai: "radius 100" did you try it with less? MiniontobyPI: not yet MiniontobyPI: how much you recommend BuckarooBanzai: also: your _server_ crashed while using a csm? o_O BuckarooBanzai: try 10 or 20 idk MiniontobyPI: trying 10 BuckarooBanzai: !ip [2a02:c207:2051:9958::1] BuckarooBanzai: !up [2a02:c207:2051:9958::1] MinetestBot: [[2a02:c207:2051:9958::1]]:30000 seems to be down (host did not resolve) BuckarooBanzai: !up 2a02:c207:2051:9958::1 MinetestBot: [2a02:c207:2051:9958::1]:30000 seems to be down BuckarooBanzai: !up 95.111.231.234 MinetestBot: 95.111.231.234:30000 is up (14ms) * BuckarooBanzai: is sorry for the noise BuckarooBanzai: !up 2a02:c207:2051:9958::1 MinetestBot: [2a02:c207:2051:9958::1]:30000 seems to be down MiniontobyPI: not works BuckarooBanzai: MiniontobyPI: if you don't have a proper error-message just strip down the code until it works MiniontobyPI: noting shows up MiniontobyPI: oh MiniontobyPI: adv_csm:init.lua:152: attempt to concatenate local 'node_name' (a nil value) MiniontobyPI: stack traceback: MiniontobyPI: adv_csm:init.lua:152: attempt to concatenate local 'param' (a nil value) MiniontobyPI: hmmmm MiniontobyPI: fixed the param MiniontobyPI: working Ingar: funny how languages without pointers always have a NULL value 08a​ppguru: languages without pointers? big_caballito[m]: like lua or python 08a​ppguru: Lua does not expose pointers, but that doesn't mean it has none. Tables, functions and threads are all stored by reference; userdata is more or less a pointer. big_caballito[m]: i guess most interpreted languages 🤔 08a​ppguru: as said, they do have pointers, just not naked pointers big_caballito[m]: true, but in those languages, you generally don't to worry about the pointers big_caballito[m]: have* big_caballito[m]: which is why they aren't exposed 05e​xe_virus: Oh trust me I worry about them Brinso: hi Krock: bye MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Server: properly delete ServerMap on interrupted startups 13d287da1 https://git.io/Jt2IZ (152021-02-05T17:38:34Z) BuckarooBanzai: !up 2a02:c207:2051:9958::1 30002 MinetestBot: [2a02:c207:2051:9958::1]:30002 seems to be down BuckarooBanzai: !up 95.111.231.234 30002 MinetestBot: 95.111.231.234:30002 is up (15ms) BuckarooBanzai: (sorry again, i don't have an ipv6 setup at home) BuckarooBanzai: !up 2a02:c207:2051:9958::1 30002 MinetestBot: [2a02:c207:2051:9958::1]:30002 is up (23ms) BuckarooBanzai: !up 95.111.231.234 30002 MinetestBot: 95.111.231.234:30002 is up (19ms) BuckarooBanzai: nice :) BuckarooBanzai: interesting: it works on ipv4 and 6 when i enable "ipv6_server = true" but there is a warning that it may not work on some systems (somehow) sfan5: there's a warning where? 11o​il_boi: Good day 11J​onathon: hello Krock: greetings heavygale: howdy 11o​il_boi: How's it hanging? Krock: upside down 11o​il_boi: Ah that's the worst Krock: how come? Krock: if the lamps were upright mounted they wouldn't be that helpful 11o​il_boi: Because you must be feeling batty 11o​il_boi: badum tss Krock: is "batty" a pun? I don't get it sfan5: bats sfan5: bats hand upside down sfan5: hang Krock: ha ha ha ha ha Krock: [intense laughter] 11o​il_boi: https://tenor.com/view/laugh-lol-chuckles-funny-gif-5104045 ZaraChimera: I am trying to get SkyFactory running on Minetest 5.3.0 win64. I have downloaded the mod from here: https://github.com/Quent42340/SkyFactory/releases/download/0.2.1a/skyfactory.zip when extracted to my /mods folder in the Minetest directory I get an error about init.lua missing. There is no init.lua file in the directory that I can find. I also cannot find it on the github page, what would need ZaraChimera: to be in the init.lua file if I create it myself to get the mod working? ZaraChimera: The individual sub-directories in the skyfactory/mods/ folder have init.lua files for the various included mods (e.g. hopper, bonemeal etc). ZaraChimera: I had a look in dreambuilder mod-pack root and it doesn't have an init.lua either, but I don't get the error about it missing when creating a world using it. ZaraChimera: I also had a look at the #skyfactory irc channel listed in the forum threads, but it is empty. Only ChanServ is in there. 11J​onathon: Unarelith no longer works on minetest content if i recall correctly, that also only works on a 5.0-dev version of minetest if i recall correctly 11J​onathon: there working on there own engine now 11J​onathon: also: did you read the readme? 11J​onathon: NB: Don't use GitHub Download ZIP option, you'll get empty folders for the mods. ZaraChimera: MTDiscord: I did read the readme, I got the download from the linked releases location. I didn't use the github zip download. The mods folders have content in them, so it was the correct location. I redownloaded using the link given in the README. 11J​onathon: oh, im a a idiot, this is a minetest game not a mod 11J​onathon: so put it in your /games dir and not /mods 11J​onathon: mtdiscord is the place, not the user look at the name in <> at the begging for the name ZaraChimera: I extract SkyFactory and put it in my Minetest/games rather than Minetest/mods, do I have that right? 11J​onathon: correct ZaraChimera: I will try that, thank you. 11J​onathon: do note it may or may not work as its no longer supported 11G​reenXenith: (if it doesnt work you will get a different error, rather than a missing init.lua) 11J​onathon: ^ i recall he requested rubenwardy to remove or hide it a while back i think ZaraChimera: Noted. I have had a few other attempts of mods not working as well (usually through quests not advancing--sokomine and cornernote skyblock--or water and lava not flowing--ac-minetest-skyblock). ZaraChimera: Yeah, seems that skyfactory is busted. 11J​onathon: there is two forks that both look like they have 2 more commits than master, try those 11J​onathon: try programmerjakes version, he has a pr open on master even ZaraChimera: Oh, nice. I'll check those out. 11J​onathon: seems the game is still open for adoption to if you wanted to work on it 😛 ZaraChimera: I would, but I know nothing about lua scripting. ZaraChimera: I can get things patched if I have a set of copy-paste steps to follow, but that is the extent of my current ability. 11J​onathon: ah ZaraChimera: Is the programmerjakes version on github? 11J​onathon: yes, look at forks 11J​onathon: https://github.com/Unarelith/SkyFactory/network/members ZaraChimera: Thanks. ZaraChimera: Testing now, though it seems the download link in programmerjake's fork leads me back to the Quent download link 11J​onathon: use git, not the releases 11J​onathon: are you on linux? ZaraChimera: Windows currently. ZaraChimera: I have a linux box I can dig out and test this on as well. 11J​onathon: install git bash, then cd to the /games filepath and do git clone --recursive git@github.com:programmerjake/SkyFactory.git 11G​reenXenith: https://github.com/programmerjake/SkyFactory/archive/master.zip ZaraChimera: Okay. 11G​reenXenith: just use the zip 11J​onathon: you didnt read the readme 11G​reenXenith: Ah 11J​onathon: so dont use the zip 11J​onathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/807381307839086622/unknown.png ZaraChimera: Zip download from git gives me empty mod folders :D ZaraChimera: Which is why the readme says not to use it. 11J​onathon: the green man didnt read 11G​reenXenith: Yeah I didnt read 11J​onathon: install git bash, then cd to the /games filepath and do git clone --recursive git@github.com:programmerjake/SkyFactory.git 11J​onathon: ^ 11G​reenXenith: The mods folder uses submodules, which GitHub wont package for you 11J​onathon: before you even bother, ill just test that locally to see if it works ZaraChimera: Got git installed under openSUSE WSL2 and the clone --recursive command seems to be working. 11J​onathon: wsl, nice ZaraChimera: ^,^ Yeah. I have a Ubuntu WSL install as well, but I am more familiar with SUSE and learning my way around NixOS and nix package manager 11J​onathon: lol, yeah, that doesnt work 11J​onathon: not sure which version of mtg its even using 11J​onathon: you could try the other fork, or older versions of the engine, but that game will need a bit of work before its more usable/stable ZaraChimera: Interesting, it does give different lines in the traceback than the releases in /games did. ZaraChimera: Well, rats. 11J​onathon: i have no interest in digging into it more to make it work, sorry ZaraChimera: I figured it probably wouldn't work, given that most of the stuff on it is a couple years old anyway. ZaraChimera: Jonathon: understandable, and no worries. I thought I'd ask in case there was a monkey-see-monkey-do type solution that I had failed to find. ZaraChimera: At this point if I want to get more into Minetest, learning lua definitely seems part of it. 11J​onathon: git is more important tbh 04o​neplustwo: I agree. Minetest is about collaborating with others, and it's hard to do that without a good command of git. bingxianmo: meow~ hisforever: Hi I need to know how to fix a Mod rblok here is the pastbon hisforever: https://pastebin.com/v2sfJ2qY rubenwardy: you're missing mobkit hisforever: thanks Rubenwardy hisforever: here i the error pic https://imgur.com/a/fo4UYV1 hisforever: mobkitI installed M rubenwardy: try deleting and reinstalling rblok rubenwardy: folders in mods/ need to contain either init.lua or modpack.txt hisforever: ok Willl do hisforever: thanks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest: Remove bumpmap/parallax occl. test nodes (#10902) 139b64834 https://git.io/Jtzdb (152021-02-04T20:43:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix documentation of formspec sound style (#10913) 138c19823 https://git.io/JtzdN (152021-02-04T20:43:12Z) imi: hi imi: are there any config variables which can be put into minetest.conf but not into world.mt or vice versa? sfan5: yes sfan5: world.mt is separate from minetest.conf, the only settings it happens to "share" is creative_mode, enable_damage and mapgen stuff imi: I've seen announce_server in both of those imi: static_spawnpoint would make much more sense in world.mt than in minetest.conf phoenix_: hi, good people. I have some DPI (?) weirdness, in minecraft interface and in-game inventory. I know most likelly its not minecraft's fault,but Nvidia's drivers,ince when I use Intel HD ,doesnt happen. BUt maybe someone has an idea howto fix ? phoenix_: Im on ubuntu,with nvidia proprietary drivers phoenix_: https://gyazo.com/bf6c6710c74702da3431cfec2c1c8b64 phoenix_: and this is the screenshot phoenix_: since* phoenix_: minetest* Sorry :D phoenix_: they so similar sfan5: it reads the DPI from your system so that must be set wrong or something Ingar: if the DPI is wrong you can set it in the Xorg config file (had to do that once when I had the most tiny letters on a TV) Ingar: but then I'd expect your Desktop Environment to look funky as well tango_: it's possible that the DE is using a different way to set it tango_: there's the server DPI, the xrm Xft.dpi setting, XSETTINGS ... phoenix_: Ingar, the DPI doesnt *seem* wrong. most apps and the desktop itself looks good. Only some apps dont : minetest, freeoffice, etc.. phoenix_: tango_, I guess is possible. I tendn to think its the proprietary nvidia thingie,since eith free drivers (amdgpu,intel) all looks good phoenix_: excuse my tpos, tiny keyboard ^^ phoenix_: https://gyazo.com/c2e779bececadeaf134d2e29bd7406f0 phoenix_: also, the menus .. gigantic tango_: phoenix_: same monitor? phoenix_: same monitor phoenix_: BUt I need the nvidia driver. NOuveau is only good for..well, for almost nothing, considering newer cards . Just basic stuff 11I​hrFussel: Nouveau is good enough for MT 11I​hrFussel: User probably left sfan5: they did Fleckenstein: If I want to make a default for a setting, should I do if not minetest.settings:get(...) then minetest.settings:set(..., default) end on the beggining of my script or just do minetest.get(...) or default when accessing the setting? I'm pretty sure least is the way to go, but I'm currently having a fight about it with someone else. 08a​ppguru: Neither 08a​ppguru: You should use modlib to handle all settings for you 08a​ppguru: 1. settingtypes.txt specifies defaults Fleckenstein: what if it is a CSM? 08a​ppguru: 2. if a setting is not set, you should check for == nil and not for truthiness (that will fail with false) Fleckenstein: settingtypes.txt only affects main menu 08a​ppguru: minetest.settings:set is blatantly wrong though, as it will modify the users settings Fleckenstein: yea, i agree with that 08a​ppguru: but as said, remember to check for nil and not for truthiness 08a​ppguru: else your users will be unable to disable stuff which has a default of true 08a​ppguru: i would still recommend modlib though 08a​ppguru: https://github.com/appgurueu/disable_build_where_they_stand/blob/master/schema.lua rubenwardy: truthiness only affects get_bool, which has a default param 09s​rinivas: https://github.com/samarth-ramesh/mtlauncher a shameless plug of my project. while 0.4x support is there, you need to compile it first... very pre alpha, written in qt, have fun Wuzzy: Honest question: Why does the world need this? 09s​rinivas: eh, the current one sucks 09s​rinivas: imho 09s​rinivas: and, if i do it correct, adds in auto updates (assuming it is stored in a writable directory) 09s​rinivas: and, allows you to switch client versions easily 09s​rinivas: no hitting alt+tab etc Krock: @s​rinivas My approach for using multiple Minetest versions. Including a few compat patches in builtin https://i.postimg.cc/2jBLPL0z/grafik.png Krock: no need for a launcher at all 09s​rinivas: i see... The usecase that i envisioned was two fold: 1) have both 5.x and 0.4x clients for servers that need 4.x... and to have a password manager 09s​rinivas: Krock ^ 09s​rinivas: and, Wuzzy ^ Krock: hmm I see. My 0.4.x setup is long gone, hence didn't consider this to be a potential use-case. whatever. I hope other people find an use in it 09s​rinivas: i know people who play on redcat etc 09s​rinivas: and, thanks 09s​rinivas: my hope is to include enough setups ootb that it works with almost all servers ootb 09s​rinivas: multicraft, 0.4x, 5.x and when 6.x comes, that too 09s​rinivas: auto updates so you never miss a new feature, a merged server list that includes all that you can join, and hopefully, a clean experience that gets you ingame with as few keystrokes/clicks as possible Wuzzy: the real solution would be for JT2 to upgrade to 5.3.0 😀 Krock: just shovel more quicksand so that you don't drown Krock: i.e. 0.4.x support and custom binaries until the end of the world 09s​rinivas: havent you heard of the irc & singularity joke? 09s​rinivas: https://xkcd.com/1782/ 09s​rinivas: > the real solution would be for JT2 to upgrade to 5.3.0 😀 > mine not to advise servers, but to provide compat and die charge of 4x brigade, into the valley of 5.x rode a n<100> 09s​rinivas: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45319/the-charge-of-the-light-brigade btw, for those who did not get it Krock: no not at all. this xkcd hasn't ever been posted here. like never at all. Krock: but it's something I can totally agree with 09s​rinivas: the asme way, as long as there is a market for 4.x clients, there is a service for me to provide lol daiNoZord: I've spent the past few hours just trying to move a player up 2 blocks when a platform raises but I'm having no luck :( If anyone has a mo: https://pastebin.pl/view/8bd3f172 Wuzzy: what is your goal with this? Wuzzy: oh i can see the problem daiNoZord: just to make a platform raise, take the player up with it, i think coming down gravity does the rest :) Wuzzy: so i guess you start with dadmin:plat1_off, right? daiNoZord: That's right Wuzzy: and when player rightclicks on it, they are supposed to teleort 2 node up? daiNoZord: Yep Wuzzy: is dadmin:plat1_on supposed to be player-placed? Wuzzy: or shall this node only appear via code action only? daiNoZord: it's just replacing the original node - so code based Wuzzy: ok Wuzzy: then the mistake is clear. the function after_place_node is wrong Wuzzy: this callback is never called. this function is only called when the PLAYER places the node, which never happens daiNoZord: ah, I see Wuzzy: you might want to use on_construct instead, which is called when the node is created, e.g. with set_node Wuzzy: also... Wuzzy: minetest.get_player_by_name() Wuzzy: this function does nothing lol Wuzzy: you forgot to assign the player variable... Wuzzy: oh this entire function is completely wrong... you will probably figure it out with the error messages you get 😛 daiNoZord: aha.. I tried on_construct but with the other mistakes in the way I guess it wouldn't work. Thanks Wuzzy :) Wuzzy: on_construct can be used here, but there are other ways to solve this problem as well. daiNoZord: originally i included it in the on_rightclick but that broke the raising of the platform daiNoZord: now it executes without errrors in terminal.... ugh lol daiNoZord: In "minetest.is_player(obj)`: boolean, whether `obj` is a player" - What is "obj"? Krock: whatever you want Krock: preferably an ObjectRef daiNoZord: so if that follows get_objects_inside radius, it'll return true if a player is present? daiNoZord: or maybe local obj = minetest.get_objects_inside_radius then minetest.is_player(obj) Krock: get_objects_inside_radius returns a table Krock: you iterate through that table. the value of each pair will be the ObjectRef to pass to is_player daiNoZord: oh nuts - is this in pairs / in ipairs? Krock: like this, but using is_player(obj) instead of get_luaentity. https://github.com/SmallJoker/boost_cart/blob/master/cart_entity.lua#L348-L351 Krock: both, pairs and ipairs work because it's a numeric indexed table daiNoZord: ah - i was meant to learn this. now would be a good time then - thanks! :) Krock: browse other project code. it'll be helpful. Guest22: What setting in the server configuration file controls the distance at which blocks can be placed? Krock: none Krock: that's a mod/game thing Guest22: oh. So without creating a mod I can't change it then? Guest22: It's hurting my wrists having to move for every 3 blocks. Krock: exactly. either write a mod or adjust the "creative" mod which changes the wieldhand AFAIK Krock: if you turn on creative mode in your world, this should happen automatically daiNoZord: I often do - to begin with all I did was change mods to suit my design but now I gotta learn to do things properly Guest22: i have survival mode though Krock: Guest22: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/creative/init.lua#L58-L60 Krock: put these two lines plus closing brackets into a new mod Guest22: Then I can use it on survival mode too? Krock: yes Guest22: Thank you Krock. Very helpful. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Guest22: What files are minimally required for a mod? I have made the init.lua and a mod.conf, are any other files required, or will that do? Krock: init.lua alone is fine, but mod.conf is a good addition Guest22: ok, I'm about to test it out. Guest22: It works. :D That was my first experience 'making' a mod. Even though I borrowed code from the example you posted. Thanks for making my first experience a pleasant one, Krock. Guest22: it lets me place blocks further distance, but didn't seem to affect the distance at which I can hit blocks. Is that line of code also nearby in the code you shared to me? If not too difficult I may want to add a line to change hitting distance too. Guest22: Actually I think it did change the hitting block distance. I had the wrong tool equipped. Guest22: It's so much nicer, because now my wrists don't feel like they are cramping up. :) daiNoZord: There's a missing link there.. somewhere. After 10hours of trying, I've concluded I'm having a bad day - I'll come back to it when my head stops hurting.. daiNoZord: awf ... minimise * daiNoZord: hunting food numzero: hm... it seems a sort of shared tables is supported in Lanes now adfeno2: sorry, I'm out of the loop. numzero: you was asking about running things in parallel in an MT mod numzero: Lua Lanes allows running Lua code in parallel numzero: separate threads won’t be able to access the MT environment directly but that may be fine for some use cases numzero: like running a mostly self-contained thing with limited communication to the MT itself numzero: are you trying to make an XMPP chat bridge? adfeno2: numzero, a chat bridge, yes. numzero: so running the bridge in a separate “Lane” (thread) and passing the messages between it and MT itself via a “linda” should work numzero: (never tried that myself, though) adfeno2: I hope Lane's limited ability to share tables suffices for the things I want to do (mostly maintain a list of XMPP users, a list of MT users, and a "chat message" queue, in case either side didn't catch quickly). adfeno2: I'm OK on compromising the last part (message queue) if I find it too complex to do. numzero: the queue is there already IIUC numzero: it’s the primary interface Lindas provide adfeno2: ah, nice. adfeno2: numzero, even if Lane doesn't work quite well, I thank you very much for pointing me a way out. Sven_vB: numzero, thanks! Sven_vB: adfeno2, none of my pointer devices have an Alt or F4 button Sven_vB: via keyboard I could just press Escape :) Sven_vB: adfeno2, the usualy not-really-a-solution for IRC's reliance on a continuous TCP connection is to set up a bouncer on some permanently-connected server, and connect the actual, roaming clients to that bouncer. adfeno2: try using Alt+SysRq+R, this as far as I know should force keyboard to work again, to some extent. Sven_vB: adfeno2, why would I? when I asked specifically for pointer device possibilities, it was about usability, not desperation. :) Sven_vB: more specifically, I was too lazy to adjust my keyboard multiplexer just for one keystroke. adfeno2: ah I see. adfeno2: I'll do some research on that then, Sven_vB: a button separate from the "close window" decoration button would have given me better reassurance that it will quit the game cleanly. Sven_vB: maybe I should feature-request it. adfeno2: Sven_vB there might be a way to control or override mouse events so long as acpi_listen finds those. withe their key codes, one can write a script associated with an event on/etc/acpi (or similar path) to do the job. Sven_vB: indeed I can use xdotool to define mouse gestures for key press events. however, I think an obviously-clean-exit button should be in the game by default. adfeno2: for example, if acpi_listen understand sat least middle mouse press, one could use that to call xkill. xkill in turn will expect you to left click a window to terminate or kill it. Sven_vB: maybe I should have clarified in my original question, that I was asking about MT as it's distributed, with default config. adfeno2: you want MT to Change mouse behavior or change title bar? Sven_vB: probably on similar level than acpi_listen, would be xinput test 'pointer:Mouse Name here' | sed -nurf script.sed | sh Sven_vB: I want MT main menu to have a "Quit" button. Sven_vB: inside the window adfeno2: ah I see. Sven_vB: because the window decoration's close button doesn't convey whether it will be a "clean" exit adfeno2: Sven_vB most applications nowadays all terminate with the X at the title bar. adfeno2: if you do insist on clicking it frenetically (due to some freeze) then the desktop session asks if you want to kill it instead. Sven_vB: feature request for the Quit button: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10894 Sven_vB: wow. we actually had two older requests for that already. Sven_vB: and they even had better excuses for why they want their game experience be easy. SX: "most applications nowadays all terminate with the X at the title bar", no they do not if you run full screen and there's no such button Sven_vB: also that rebuttal is void because it misses the point SX: and many prefer to actually run games full screen without window decorations SX: Related not so nice thing is that minetest does not handle windowed full screen mode itself but that's another problem, with Linux if you're developer or sysadmin you will be able to change manager settings to do it. Still too hard for average user. With Windows.. well it gets messy and you need SX: another application to do that for you. SX: There's been requests for that too, heard some of devs saying that it is not needed because window manager should handle it. That's like building thing only for devs and other technical persons, end of rant. Sven_vB_: SX, building for mostly devs is the default in free software. you're lucky if maintainers have non-dev friends who they'd like to use an application with. which, with a game, at least there's an increased probability. Sven_vB: for all my friends that I've tried to convert from Minecraft, the small planet surface area defeats it anyway. so until I find time to expand the world (and mapgen) horizontally, I can only play with techies anyway. Sven_vB: well, at least with free software we have the freedom to fix those things. :) that's a huge plus. DrFrankenstone: Is there any way for a mod to make use of set_sky() without it causing clashes if any other mod on the server uses set_sky()? DrFrankenstone: Like any conventions that avoid the problem if followed, or a middleman mod to go through? Sven_vB: DrFrankenstone, there are some libs that aim for multi-mod compatibility. haven't done any research though whether they deal with set_sky. Sven_vB: I wish the "Media... 0%" progress bar would update with some kind of progress indication. Thanks to --verbose I now see that it actually does lots of "VERBOSE[Main]: Client: Loaded cached media:" while the window hangs (it's not repainting itself). celeron55: >minetest does not handle windowed full screen mode itself celeron55: just to be clear, this is a problem that comes from irrlicht celeron55: now that the plan is to fork irrlicht, fixing that should be possible MiniontobyPI: Hi MiniontobyPI: i need some help MiniontobyPI: im making csm MiniontobyPI: minetest.get_player_names() MiniontobyPI: how to hanlde this ^ MiniontobyPI: is it an array MiniontobyPI: so MiniontobyPI: for player in players do MiniontobyPI: or what? MiniontobyPI: may i get helP? SusWombat: Hi everyone MiniontobyPI: Hi MiniontobyPI: can i get some help with ´minetest.get_player_names()´ in an csm code? How to handle the output of it? sfan5: do you know how to iterate an array in Lua? MiniontobyPI: for player in players do MiniontobyPI: count = count + 1 MiniontobyPI: end MiniontobyPI: right? sfan5: no MiniontobyPI: Oh MiniontobyPI: how to do it then???? independent56: the best minetest game is development test. mtg, hades, nodecore? they have nothing 085​06 independent: lol MiniontobyPI: for each??? MiniontobyPI: ipairs MiniontobyPI: for i, name in ipairs(names) do MiniontobyPI: oh SusWombat: does minetest have a activ modding community? 11J​onathon: Yes sfan5: SusWombat: https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=46 sfan5: looks pretty active I'd say MiniontobyPI: ok, right i think that works now MiniontobyPI: now the next thing independent56: the modding community is litterally buzzing. have one look, and see all the development that is going on. its extremely active. MiniontobyPI: huds["localplayer"] = player:hud_change(huds["localplayer"], "text", newText) doesnt works independent56: i belive that the modding community is bigger then the core development community. MiniontobyPI: bad argument #1 to 'hud_change' (number expected, got boolean) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome MiniontobyPI: bad argument #1 to 'hud_change' (number expected, got boolean) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome MiniontobyPI: can i get help? MiniontobyPI: oh MiniontobyPI: bad argument #1 to 'hud_change' (number expected, got boolean) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome MiniontobyPI: plz help MiniontobyPI: huds["localplayer"] = player:hud_change(huds["localplayer"], "text", newText) doesnt works rubenwardy: don't set huds to the result of hud_change rubenwardy: only hud_Add returns the ID MiniontobyPI: Oh MiniontobyPI: checking now MiniontobyPI: ... MiniontobyPI: thx rubenwardy MiniontobyPI: but now still me player count not works MiniontobyPI: and in-game time i want to see as hr:min:sec MiniontobyPI: https://pastebin.com/ZPm80ATV MiniontobyPI: plz help me with the player count MiniontobyPI: https://pastebin.com/ZPm80ATV MiniontobyPI: plz help me with the player count BuckarooBanzai: MiniontobyPI: what are you trying to do? MiniontobyPI: its an csm BuckarooBanzai: ok, whats the problem then? MiniontobyPI: im trying to make an in-game player counter (adn other things) hud gui thing MiniontobyPI: it shows 0 MiniontobyPI: while me MiniontobyPI: and my secodn account are in MiniontobyPI: it says nil MiniontobyPI: or so MiniontobyPI: let me check if it is nil BuckarooBanzai: did you try with "ipairs()" MiniontobyPI: yes BuckarooBanzai: i think you have a list there rubenwardy: local count = players and #players or 0 MiniontobyPI: but at first rubenwardy: you don't actually need to iterate over them, you can use # to count MiniontobyPI: hmmm MiniontobyPI: # MiniontobyPI: ok MiniontobyPI: also works for nil???? rubenwardy: yeah, `players and` handles that rubenwardy: you could use an ifstatement if you wanted to the same effect MiniontobyPI: local count = players and #players or 0 MiniontobyPI: this is the full code? rubenwardy: no, you need to get the players and definee the function rubenwardy: function countPlayers() local players = minetest.get_player_names() return players and #players or 0 end rubenwardy: obviously with line breaks MiniontobyPI: ok MiniontobyPI: hmmm rubenwardy: oh, it'll return nil if the server doesn't let you query players MiniontobyPI: how to disable the CSM_RF_READ_PLAYERINFO MiniontobyPI: i think thats it rubenwardy: ask the server nicely MiniontobyPI: IM THE HOST MiniontobyPI: lol MiniontobyPI: how to do it if im the host? rubenwardy: look for csm restrictions in the conf MiniontobyPI: ok rubenwardy: csm_restriction_flags =0 disables all rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1589 MiniontobyPI: ok MiniontobyPI: not found in the file, but will set to 0 MiniontobyPI: and now MiniontobyPI: environment_step(): No address for peer found! MiniontobyPI: stack traceback: MiniontobyPI: [C]: in function 'get_server_info' MiniontobyPI: LOL MiniontobyPI: when i shut it down MiniontobyPI: Hmmm MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: now it says 3 MiniontobyPI: let me try with my old code MiniontobyPI: !server addr:minetest.grape.ircnow.org port:30002 MinetestBot: MiniontobyPI: Grapes MT creative server | minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30002 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 5.4.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 14ms MiniontobyPI: my code works! MiniontobyPI: and now MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: 1 last thing MiniontobyPI: how to show the in-game time as hr:min:sec MiniontobyPI: and btw MiniontobyPI: attempt to call field 'get_node_light' (a nil value) MiniontobyPI: * `minetest.get_node_light(pos, timeofday)` MiniontobyPI: * Gets the light value at the given position. Note that the light value MiniontobyPI: "inside" the node at the given position is returned, so you usually want MiniontobyPI: to get the light value of a neighbor. MiniontobyPI: * `pos`: The position where to measure the light. MiniontobyPI: * `timeofday`: `nil` for current time, `0` for night, `0.5` for day MiniontobyPI: * Returns a number between `0` and `15` or `nil` rubenwardy: please don't paste so many lines rubenwardy: is this during connect time? MiniontobyPI: Soorry MiniontobyPI: I will use pastebin MiniontobyPI: ik mtimer does do it MiniontobyPI: i got it working MiniontobyPI: thanks mtimer mod MiniontobyPI: but yeah now the get_node_light plz MiniontobyPI: why does the function not works? MiniontobyPI: is it dead/deceprate MiniontobyPI: and rubenwardy, can i use minetest.register_on_modchannel_signal to check if the player joined the game? MiniontobyPI: away MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Server GotBlocks(): Lock clients to avoid multithreading issues 137ebd5da https://git.io/JtE8Q (152021-02-02T18:10:35Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Handle UTF-16 correctly in Wireshark dissector 139388c23 https://git.io/JtERM (152021-02-02T19:46:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Encode high codepoints as surrogates to safely transport wchar_t over… 13674d67f https://git.io/JtERD (152021-02-02T19:46:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop wide/narrow conversion functions 13c834d2a https://git.io/JtERy (152021-02-02T19:46:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Refactor utf8_to_wide/wide_to_utf8 functions 135e392cf https://git.io/JtERS (152021-02-02T19:46:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Adriankhl -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix memory leak detected by address sanitizer (#10896) 132072afb https://git.io/JtE06 (152021-02-02T19:56:24Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix list spacing and size (again) (#10869) 13f227e40 https://git.io/JtE0i (152021-02-02T19:55:13Z) Sven_vB: "VERBOSE[Main]: Executing '/bin/rm' '-rf' '/tmp/MTTempModFolder_5176'" <-- should we add "--one-file-system --" to all rm commands? Sven_vB: there were bigger projects than MT, who had too few levels of safety in their rm -r sfan5: that would be incompatible with non-GNU coreutils sfan5: or maybe it'd work on BSD but surely not on Android Sven_vB: we could do OS detection for that Sven_vB: OTOH, I see a rather clear divide in gamers. ones that should know how to sandbox a game properly, and ones that have learned to live with the risks. Sven_vB: yeah I think I prefer devs spend their time with the more game specific issues. giov4[m]: okay, so it can't be done, thanks sfan5: is there some requirement you have to not concatenate them? giov4[m]: nevermind, I did what I wanted to do differently rubenwardy: Why is nesting a problem? rubenwardy: It just puts color codes at the start and end rubenwardy: Oh wait, it doesn't use a stack phoenix_: hello. HOw do I start Minetest with a single block,or a couple ? I wanna start from scratch everything. I tried single node,but when I enter world, there is no block, and I keep falling forever. Im new to this,btw. On 5.3.0, ubuntu phoenix_: thanks phoenix_: even a small platform would work. I dont want a complete gigantic world. sfan5: singlenode is the right one but you'll need to enable fly mode as soon as you spawn and then use a mod such as worldedit to place a single node sfan5: because the entire world generates as literally just air phoenix_: how do I do that,if you dont mind ? ..and how do I get all available building blocks ,when I start? Thanks sfan5: open chat and enter /grantme fly sfan5: press K to enably fly mode sfan5: if you have worldedit you'd use something like (each a separate command) //pos1 //pos2 //set dirt sfan5: for creative mode enable it in the mainmenu before joining the world sfan5: then you can open the inventory and just grab anything from there phoenix_: thank you very much . I will try that :) beanzilla: I assume if I wanted to quickly "clear" out a section of nodes quickly I would use worldedit with //set air or something like that? Krock: yes 12W​arr1024: If you don't want to install worldedit (it's kinda big, complex, may have some security implications) then there are simpler mods like "origin" that place a starting node for you. Sven_vB: https://content.minetest.net/packages/?q=origin should list the exact match first and separated from the other, approximate matches. rubenwardy: I'll make an issue rubenwardy: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/02/minetest-5-4-to-make-downloading-mods-and-games-a-lot-easier ronoaldo: Just saw that info - pretty nice! rubenwardy: mildly stressful how they didn't crop the first image ronoaldo: yeah :unam ronoaldo: * yeah :unamused: MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Revert "Correct door model dimensions (#2804)" 13ecfebe3 https://git.io/Jt0Wj (152021-02-01T21:38:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Revise dynamic_add_media API to better accomodate future changes 1340ad976 https://git.io/Jt0lw (152021-02-01T22:00:13Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Beds: Preserve player physics (#2789) 136a9cbca https://git.io/Jt0lr (152021-02-01T22:00:05Z) Sven_vB: I'm playing MT 5.3.0-ppa0~ubuntu20.04.1 on Ubuntu focal. When I try to connect to the server I used to play on, at "Initializing nodes 1%..." and after --verbose message "INFO[Main]: SourceShaderCache::getOrLoad(): No path found for "nodes_shader/opengl_geometry.glsl"", my system freezes. first, mouse cursor movement becomes slow and jumpy, then it no longer moves. keyboard shortcuts aren't processed, and SSH connections die. ICMP Sven_vB: echo requests continue to be replied. after a minute I invoke OOM kill via magic sysrq, MineTest is killed and the queued keyboard shortcuts start to be interpreted. any ideas? Sven_vB: how can I debug this? sfan5: GPU? driver? sfan5: because it sounds like either or both of those are badly broken sfan5: also Minetest is not installed correctly as evidently shader files are missing Sven_vB: thanks, I'll investigate the missing files Sven_vB: indeed, I cannot find any filename containing "opengl_geometry" in http://ppa.launchpad.net/minetestdevs/stable/ubuntu/pool/main/m/minetest/minetest_5.3.0-ppa0~ubuntu20.04.1_amd64.deb sfan5: https://packages.ubuntu.com/groovy/all/minetest-data/filelist sfan5: it's in there sfan5: huh wait you're using the ppa sfan5: ignore what I said earlier. we don't have any opengl_geometry shaders, so don't worry about that Sven_vB: when I try in singleplayer, the last --verbose message before OOM kill is "VRBS[ConnectionReceive]: con(15/2)WARNING: ACKed packet not in outgoing queue seqnum=65505" rubenwardy: sounds a bit like an OOM rubenwardy: are you using dreambuilder? Sven_vB: maybe because I installed new mods. rubenwardy: (I'm joking) Sven_vB: no I don't have dreambuilder :) Sven_vB: I would hope that if it's mod related, MT would detect it and blame the bad mod, rather than freezing my system. Sven_vB: I disabled all mods (renamed the mods folder), now it doesn't hang the system but stalls at "Media... 0%", clouds not moving, for several minutes now Sven_vB: oh it continues Sven_vB: now it hangs, same as before. Sven_vB: maybe strace can tell me what MT is trying to do. Sven_vB: I see. it's very busy stat()ing hundreds of paths in ~/.minetest/textures/refi_textures//textures/ that all give ENOENT. maybe this busywork is why there are network queueing errors. Sven_vB: I'll try with that texture pack disabled rubenwardy: oh intersting rubenwardy: weird how it would give ENOENT rubenwardy: does it really check every path for a texture? Surely it should scan the paths into memory? sfan5: stat isn't that inefficient sfan5: on Linux that is adfeno: Sven_vB, rubenwardy, sfan5: I wonder if stat is really the culprit, or if strace even while following forks or children, would be the right place to look for causes. adfeno: I would try journalctl or, var/log/syslog, or dmesg adfeno: first two for general errors (depending if your system uses systemd's journalctl module), and last one is for internal kernel messages. * cheapie: grumbles a bit about the whole thing with putting "you hacker you!" in the descriptions of not-in-creative-inventory items seeming to have gone out of style or something adfeno: there is also /var/log/Xorg.log for errors related to the display's low level manager, including rendering, extra displays, etc. cheapie: ...on the other hand, a result of this seems to be that 'grep -i "you hacker you" init.lua' seems to be a surprisingly accurate way to tell if I worked on a given mod or not :P adfeno: I wonder if there is a way to force a complex Lua sw that is not designed to run in parallel, to do run in parallel inside a Minetest mod? adfeno: I tried coroutine.creat e and .resume, but the Verse Lua XMPP client library still took control of the session and blocked Minetest from opening a server. adfeno: I'll test with Verse from older versions (those based on libstrophe), to see if I have luck. Sven_vB: a reboot seems to have solved the problem, for now Sven_vB: maybe the GPU had a problem with the state it was in, after the initial OOM kill numzero: adfeno: Lua coroutines are cooperative, they aren’t concurrent or even preemptive Sven_vB: in the main menu, is there another option to quit the game via pointer device, than the window decoration's close button? numzero: and it is definitely impossible to magically turn single-threaded code into multi-threaded code adfeno: Sven_VB: do it like I do: Alt + F4 (in some systems it tries to first terminate (read: quit gently), then if you insist it kills stuff (read: blow out every change and can cause permanent corruption). numzero: ^yet another Windows user? numzero: Sven_vB: not any I know about daiNoZord: I just discovered oblige - so wine is a thing again numzero: adfeno: um, sorry for Windows mention, need to read more carefully (yet my particular system doesn’t understand Alt+F4 at all but it is quite unusual) numzero: on Lua and multithreading, there are indeed modules allowing that but with serious limitations adfeno2: there is also another keyboard shortcut to open the title bar's menu, with which you can use arrow keys and enter to close. numzero: like, a table can never be shared between threads; but message passing is possible numzero: found it, it’s called Lua Lanes: https://lualanes.github.io/lanes/ adfeno2: sorry numzero, lost connection since I can only connect using phone carrier now. Why on Earth IRC aren't you compatible with your brother XMPP? :S cheapie: Random no-context screenshot that I thought looked kinda nice: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210130_224211.png cheapie: That pixel art out the window is perhaps a bit creepy, but... meh, that's not mine. ronoaldo: Hi! 03Z​ander_200: Hi MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix minetest.dig_node returning true when node isn't diggable (#10890) 136e0e032 https://git.io/JtB97 (152021-01-31T18:49:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Preserve immortal group for players when damage is disabled 13a01a02f https://git.io/JtB7P (152021-01-31T19:38:12Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Readd Client::sendPlayerPos optimization (was part of 81c7f0a) 13fd1c1a7 https://git.io/JtB7X (152021-01-31T19:38:12Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Cache client IP in RemoteClient so it can always be retrieved (#10887) 13112a6ad https://git.io/JtB71 (152021-01-31T19:36:47Z) dnikic: Hello 11J​onathon: Hi dnikic: Do you have a bit of time for a little chat? giov4[m]: Hey, if I do `minetest.chat_send_all(minetest.colorize("#ddffdd", minetest.colorize("#e6482e", "Red text + ") .. " green text wannabe"))` "green text wannabe" is white, is there any way to avoid it (without concatenating two `minetest.colorize`)? sfan5: do not nest colorize cheapie: hisforever: I've never heard of an "advancedtrains" mod, but if you mean advtrains then the documentation for the ATC thing is just in with the rest of the manual: https://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=usage:nodes:atc_controller hisforever: cheapie: thanks iamweasel: yeah that mod has lots of features, but i was able to build a simple road pretty easy, and it's awesome :) iamweasel: lusik told me, one can make trains run on schedule hisforever: I'm 72 and I don't understand code hisforever: I have 5 trairoad stations 2-4 are east and west and 3-5 are north and south, each has a roundabout hisforever: iamweasel: did you ues tcb and signals? cheapie: ...well, it's still oscillating a bit more than I'd like it to (needs more tuning) but upgrading my cart speed controller thing from PI control to full PID control definitely made it a lot more stable. cheapie: Seems like if I set the proportional gain to 1, integral gain to 2, and derivative gain all the way up at 10(!) I can get reasonably reliable and stable-ish operation with the cart going as slow as 2.5m/s. unixbsd: hi unixbsd: is there a nice minetest mumble server for gamers? unixbsd: there is a minecraft server though : minecraft.cybnet.ch:64738 works fine with mumble and pumble. heavygale: you may use any mumble server you like,.. i don't know of any that's used for minetest in particular,.. at least mine is not :D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: default: Add missing nodes to list (#2799) 13b648af4 https://git.io/Jt4gO (152021-01-30T14:20:11Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Correct door model dimensions (#2804) 133fdd5cd https://git.io/Jt4gl (152021-01-30T14:22:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Correct name of acacia mese postlight (#2800) 13e1e793d https://git.io/Jt4g8 (152021-01-30T14:20:40Z) cheapie: So someone was saying that something about some of the stuff I added to digistuff recently reminded them of an RPi somehow... not entirely clear how, but sure, whatever :P cheapie: So... presenting the new bushes:raspberry_pie_cooked model B :P https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210130_125035.png cheapie: The ICs on that board are as follows: back row (left to right) - NIC, Luacontroller (under heatsink), GPU (under heatsink), RAM. The one right behind the pie is a programmable timer, and the one in front is an I/O expander. numzero: :D numzero: what is the mod these white wires come from? 03Z​ander_200: mesecon but better (nt an acual mod but it is so) numzero: yet the texture is misaligned numzero: take a close look at mesecons’ insulated wires, and compare 03Z​ander_200: why is there a cola block thing in the background 03Z​ander_200: wait can i use ruben's irc client to connect to here? cheapie: numzero: Some "unifiedmesecons" mod I made ages ago to allow for colored insulated mesecons, it's not really all that great :P 03Z​ander_200: oh cool its useful to organize sectors of big circuits 03Z​ander_200: link? or is it on cdb MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update translation files 13d1ec511 https://git.io/Jt47Y (152021-01-30T20:13:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update minetest.conf.example and dummy translation file 13cb807b2 https://git.io/Jt47O (152021-01-30T20:12:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orangesunny -> 03minetest/minetest: Deleted translation using Weblate (Lao) 13d39c031 https://git.io/Jt473 (152021-01-30T20:06:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orangesunny -> 03minetest/minetest: Deleted translation using Weblate (Burmese) 13d4e5b0f https://git.io/Jt47s (152021-01-30T20:06:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orangesunny -> 03minetest/minetest: Deleted translation using Weblate (Japanese (Kansai)) 1300e735e https://git.io/Jt47G (152021-01-30T20:06:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orangesunny -> 03minetest/minetest: Deleted translation using Weblate (Filipino) 13237d4a9 https://git.io/Jt47Z (152021-01-30T20:06:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04JoshuaDeClercq -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Dutch) 1330c2865 https://git.io/Jt47n (152021-01-30T20:06:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04zjeffer -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Dutch) 13d1a1563 https://git.io/Jt47c (152021-01-30T20:06:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04JoshuaDeClercq -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Dutch) 1348691b0 https://git.io/Jt47C (152021-01-30T20:06:14Z) grimler32: Is Anyone from D1267GT10 or other tecnology advanced places?? Krock: is that a spaceship name? rubenwardy: I've DDG'd that, and all I get is them saying it a few days ago in #nixos hisforever: Hi I'm doing a advtrains roundabout hrer is a pictuer https://imgur.com/a/Tishh8z .How can I set the switch to switch automatically? Can this be done with an atc? sfan5: !mod unified inv MinetestBot: sfan5: Unified Inventory [unified_inventory] by RealBadAngel - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12767 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory 11J​onathon: ok Sven_vB: I'd like to try the shaders from https://github.com/random-geek/Presence . can I install them in my home directory, or do I really need to replace /usr/share/minetest/client/shaders? Sven_vB: using 5.3.0 on Ubuntu focal 04L​one_Wolf: You'll need to install them over wherever the current shaders are 04L​one_Wolf: Shaderpacks aren't set up like mods are. You're basically overwriting existing code 04L​one_Wolf: *shaders absurb: oh damn, freenode had a stupid moment superleaf1995: where can i find the main rendering logic for loop superleaf1995: or something similar sfan5: in here pretty much https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/master/src/client/render sfan5: oh they already left MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: devtest: Fix deprecated alpha usage 135c005ad https://git.io/Jt8r2 (152021-01-29T16:34:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rework use_texture_alpha to provide three opaque/clip/blend modes 138322992 https://git.io/Jt8ra (152021-01-29T16:34:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop never documented 'alpha' property from nodedef 13edd8c3c https://git.io/Jt8rV (152021-01-29T16:34:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Grissess -> 03minetest/minetest: Clarify key_value_swap's edge case (#10799) 13e6e5910 https://git.io/Jt8rw (152021-01-29T16:34:00Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Settings: Purge getDefault, clean FontEngine 132760371 https://git.io/Jt8rr (152021-01-29T16:32:35Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Settings: Proper priority hierarchy 1337a05ec https://git.io/Jt8ro (152021-01-29T16:32:35Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: RemotePlayer: Remove Settings writer to Files database 135e9dd16 https://git.io/Jt8rK (152021-01-29T16:32:35Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Handle changes caused by CMake minimum version bump (#10859) 139c91cbf https://git.io/Jt8rD (152021-01-29T16:35:29Z) Sven_vB: do we have a mod with a lamp helmet? Krock: not yet but there are plenty wielded light mods Sven_vB: thanks for the keyword! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: PlayerDatabaseFiles: Fix segfault while saving a player 139a177f0 https://git.io/Jt86P (152021-01-29T17:02:40Z) superleaf1995: where can i find main rendering loop superleaf1995: oh ok logs show stuff Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/game.cpp#L1086 Krock: ^ superleaf1995 superleaf1995: thanks! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Hal2: test Krock: Test failed sucessfully MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Set UTF-8 codepage in Windows manifest (#10881) 133fa8232 https://git.io/Jt8bw (152021-01-29T21:43:29Z) hisforever: Hi is there any simple documentation on the Atc for advancedtrains mod. I'm totally lost adfeno: Hi, I can't how to make a require work after minetest.request_insecure_environment() ? adfeno: Sorry: meant to ask: “how to”… adfeno: lua_api.txt doesn't tell much about how to use that. adfeno: I also already set my mod as trusted adfeno: but doing a simple “require("some-lua-in-lua-path")” always gives me the same error about mod security. 05e​xe_virus: trusted in minetest.conf? 05e​xe_virus: also, what are you trying to "require" 05e​xe_virus: cause you shouldn't need to use require for getting mod-based stuff 05e​xe_virus: i.e. init.lua in a mod can require adjacent files 05e​xe_virus: if you need stuff from other mods, they should provide that access to you through a global table variable like minetest.functions work daiNoZord: Is "home-hosting" a server a bad idea? Any tips? 05e​xe_virus: Haven't tried, people do it all the time 05e​xe_virus: use freedns to manage dynamic IPs 05e​xe_virus: i.e. residential addresses will have their ip address change from time to time 05e​xe_virus: so you register for a subdomain with freedns 05e​xe_virus: and you tell it (via a script) when your IP changes 05e​xe_virus: for example: freeDNS has a minetest.land domain they own 05e​xe_virus: so you would register for a subdomain called 05e​xe_virus: players would join by typing in: .minetest.land 05e​xe_virus: That's really the only major* issue with hosting at home 05e​xe_virus: The other problem is residential connections typically have worse upload speeds than VPS services online 05e​xe_virus: I think that's everything I have tips for daiNoZord: thanks - is that the same as ddns? daiNoZord: ah i think it is - it's a provider. Hey that's great! myserver.minetest.land - works for me :) Yeah I'm on a basic package and the speed isn't great.. VPS is the thing I've been trying to remember for the past couple of days - but I thought home-hosting as a trial if it's safe and then maybe see about hosting elsewhere if there's enough interest for it to be worth the cost 05e​xe_virus: Exactly 05e​xe_virus: I personally use genesisHosting. They have decent linux plans, roughly $3-4 a month 05e​xe_virus: (when you pay 6 months at a time, so like $27 for 6 months or something) 04o​neplustwo: ah yes, 4 * 6 is 27 daiNoZord: That's good value - what's the speed like there? much lag? daiNoZord: $40 a year... about £2.50 pcm. 05e​xe_virus: Collection: taxes are included in that $27 😛 The speed is decent, lag is decent. I consider it a great baseline. I wouldn't host CTF on it or anything though. It flies for normal minetest gameplay with some mobs with maybe max 15 players. It seems to handle 3 factories running at once from techpack decently well. Not great, but playable at that point still. daiNoZord: I think I may need to trim down the amount of mods I use. Especially if I add things like realms and arenas adfeno: Hi there, is it possible to make bots that would show as players in /status and also on autocompletion, but not having entities nor occupying a server slot ? rubenwardy: You can customise server slots rubenwardy: User bypass adfeno: rubenwardy: thank you, what about making bots/players with no physical entity? rubenwardy: Oh right, you mean object rubenwardy: Not possible currently rubenwardy: Is this a server you run? adfeno: Could be. rubenwardy: You could make them spectators rubenwardy: Or your could make them not players adfeno: spectators? rubenwardy: Making them not a player won't allow completion thought rubenwardy: !mod spectator MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Spectator Mode [spectator_mode] by jp - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13718 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/spectator_mode adfeno: Hm, mod spectator seems to require an existing player to watch. rubenwardy: which is what the bot player method would be adfeno: So make an entity that is not a player, and then make mod spectator watch that non-player entity ? rubenwardy: your two options are: rubenwardy: 1. Create a bot player using a tool like the one found on the forum. This connects as a player and would allow chat completion rubenwardy: 2. A Lua mod which pretends to be a player rubenwardy: Number 2 is probably better rubenwardy: it's better on resources and won't create an object rubenwardy: Also, btw - players and entities are the two types of obect. Nonplayer entity doesn't make sense, as all entities are not players rubenwardy: This is fairly minetest-specific terminology adfeno: rubenwardy: my goal is to make a Minetest to XMPP bridge to send/receive messages at both ends, optionally allowing natively listing room participants in both ends. rubenwardy: ahhh rubenwardy: Well, you want #2 then ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood rubenwardy: see the IRC mods rubenwardy: you won't be able to use chat completion currently, as there's no API For that yet :tm: adfeno: rubenwardy: what if I employ a mod to pretend to be a player but do nothing, then with other mod make the MT+XMPP bridge and make each user from this bridge watch the fake player? rubenwardy: you don't need to do that adfeno: (watch in the sense of mod spectator) rubenwardy: "pretend to be a player" -> you can just simulate chat messages and override /status adfeno: What about autocompletion ? rubenwardy: you can't do that without connecting to Minetest as an actual player, which would be very expensive rubenwardy: or you could modify the C++ cod adfeno: Hm, I see… very steep road it seems. adfeno: I would also be dealing with IrrLicht along the way too :S adfeno: I'll try to follow “override /status” and simulate chat messages then. rubenwardy: not related to Irrlicht, as it's server-side only adfeno: How to make players solid ? rubenwardy: collide_with_objects = true in object properties adfeno: Hm, OK :) adfeno: Recently I also tried to use require("lua-script-from-lua-path") in a mod listed on secure.trusted_mods, but Minetest wouldn't let me. I know that from the error message I could set security.enable_security = false, but I wonder: is there any other way? rubenwardy: you need to use ie.require rubenwardy: and never ever do security.enable_security adfeno: With security.enable_security = true and security.trusted_mods = mod_name, tried in init.lua: local ie = minetest.request_insecure_environment(); ie.require("lua-from-lua-path") but got same error message about require. rubenwardy: this is typically because the mods use require as well, you should do rubenwardy: local tmp = require rubenwardy: require = ie.require rubenwardy: require("lua-form-lua-path") rubenwardy: ie.require = require adfeno: rubenwardy: shouldn't the last line be “require = tmp” ? rubenwardy: ah yeah adfeno: Ah, I see, thanks :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentDB: Order installed content first (#10864) 1382deed2 https://git.io/JtWNo (152021-01-28T11:24:36Z) adfeno: Hm… strange, even with ie.require, some Lua modules can't find some others, even though I have these in LUA_PATH and LUA_CPATH, the same command works in Lua and LuaJIT, and both path variables are the same in Minetest's environment. adfeno: I don't know if this matters, but the part which doesn't work seems to use pcall(require, select( something-and-something adfeno: I did set the insecure environment's require function as global require before calling the now-modified require. adfeno: Ah, I must inspect ie's package paths :) adfeno: Well, ie's package.path and package.cpath are all OK as equal to Lua and LuaJIT, so I don't know where it's failing. adfeno: ie.package.path ie.package.cpath adfeno: s/where/why/ adfeno: In the same error message there is also another erro for “module "encoding"” which I'm investigating and “encoding” seems to be a file which, as far as I know, should also be found in LUA_PATH. rubenwardy: Are you using 5.4.0-dev? adfeno: rubenwardy: Minetest 5.3.0 adfeno: Ah, I see, “module” itself isn't defined in insecure environment. adfeno: I'll try replacing it with ie.require and assigning that to a local variable. adfeno: Geess I hate bundling, this XMPP is a must for my group but the most uptodate library seems to be bundling every kind of Lua it depends on, which has lots of old code (including those which use “module”) adfeno: If things continue like this I'll ditch this verse library, install libstrophe from Guix (which unbundles everything), and hope to learn how to call that from Lua. adfeno: rubenwardy: I think I found the issue, _G doesn't define module, but as far as I can see the insecure environment requested does. adfeno: How to allow Lua code loaded from “require” to read /etc/resolv.conf ? I already requested insecure environment and used “require” from ie. rubenwardy: You could implement require yourself with a correct fenv rubenwardy: fenv is the problem rubenwardy: so if you can work out the path to the lua file rubenwardy: you can do loadfile(path) and then setfenv(func, ie) on the result rubenwardy: then call it rubenwardy: require = find the path, run the path, cache the result, return result adfeno: Addendum: error message is : “Mod security: Blocked attempted read from /etc/resolv.conf” rubenwardy: yeah, that's because you're reading using the sandboxed env rubenwardy: made an issue #10877 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10877 -- Insecure require() should set insecure env on file adfeno: rubenwardy: so call it like this? require=ie.require; setfenv(loadfile(path), ie) rubenwardy: don't need the require bit adfeno: So setfenv(loadfile(path), ie) is enough? rubenwardy: setfenv(loadfile(path), ie)() rubenwardy: the () calls it adfeno: Hm… I see rubenwardy: files are functions in Lua adfeno: What if the lua module itself uses “require” to load other modules ? rubenwardy: setfenv handles that rubenwardy: setfenv means that the file will use globals from ie rubenwardy: including the require adfeno: Hm… I see. adfeno: Thanks :) adfeno: rubenwardy: in loadfile(path) you mean the script that is attempting to both call others with require and also trying to read /etc/resolv.conf, right ? rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: I mean the remove script as well rubenwardy: remote rubenwardy: like library script rubenwardy: if you're just trying to read resolv from a mod, you can do ie.io.open adfeno: I tried this: local testing = setfenv(loadfile("/usr/local/share/lua/5.1/verse/init.lua"), ie)(); … but now it errors with: Mod security: Blocked attempt to read from "/usr/local/share/lua/5.1/verse/init.lua". rubenwardy: sorry, ie.loadfile 03Z​ander_200: hi im in the IRC now 04o​neplustwo: oh dear 03Z​ander_200: what adfeno: rubenwardy: strangely enough, doing local verse_file = setfenv(loadfile(verse_init_file_path), ie); local verse = verse_file().init("client") works fine, but most of the auxiliary functions seem to be nil adfeno: s/most of the auxiliary functions/most of the *verse* auxiliary functions/ adfeno: Hm, I think I have an idea adfeno: Hm… no luck adfeno: OK, I decided to abandon the XMPP bridge, no XMPP Lua library is maintainable in a system without bundling, and even so, all the ones I tried fail because them themselves forget to include stuff. Krock: !mod basic_materials MinetestBot: Krock: Basic Materials [basic_materials] by VanessaE - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21000 - https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/basic_materials MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Include irrlichttypes.h first to work around Irrlicht#433 (#10872) 13ed0882f https://git.io/Jtlgf (152021-01-28T20:25:13Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Sanitize ItemStack meta text 13b5956bd https://git.io/JtlVg (152021-01-28T21:33:10Z) definitely_a: Oops, clicked the wrong thing. daiNoZord: can liguids be flammable? I tried flammable = 3, cools_lava = 0 and even -1 but apparently it ignored the "-" daiNoZord: tried to set my oil alight definitely_a: Hey I'm Knot Abbot definitely_a: How's it going? I just tried out IRC and I lov it. Guest0: Is there a character skin editor program available for making custom character skins? Other than using a mod (which has a comment no longer working) or a photo editor like GIMP? Guest0: I'm interested in making some higher quality skins, because many available on the skinsdb are not pleasing to my eye. Thank you. Guest0: I've notice Minecraft skins have very high quality, even though I've never played Minecraft, I came across some looking for Minetest skins. The skins from Minecraft aren't portable into Minetest are they? deltanedas[m]: use a minecraft skin editor and move the parts as per sam, or edit one to save them in the correct locations Guest0: delta do you happen to have a link to a recommended editor? 11J​onathon: https://godly.github.io/minetest-skin-converter/ Guest0: Thanks MTD, that looks useful. 11J​onathon: VannessaE had a model for supporting more minecraft skins in some mtg issue that paramat closed if you wanted to support more minecraft skins 11J​onathon: something to do with arm widths and being backwards compatable 11J​onathon: bit tired atm, sorry Sven_vB: what's a good mod to make sun and moon round? Guest0: the photo realism does that. Guest0: https://github.com/Sharpik/Minetest-SharpNet-Photo-Realism-Texturespack Sven_vB: thanks! Guest0: For my own question, I found this online editor which looks promising, as it allows to edit in 3D instead of a flat canvas: https://minecraft.novaskin.me/ (then use the converter Jonathan posted). Guest0: Welcome Sven. Glad I could help someone in return for all the help I've been receiving. ZaraChimera: Trying to advance in the Skyblock Redo mod for Minetest. Running Minetest 5.3.0 I have the issue that neither the water source nor lava source will flow. I get the error "not allowing to replace CONTENT_IGNORE" when it tries to replace "air" with water or lava. Searching has not turned up anything to fix it with a number of links related to the error being dead. ZaraChimera: (http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=29758#p29758 is dead for example) ZaraChimera: It's caused by Map::setNode() it seems. Sven_vB: what's the stack trace? ZaraChimera: Stack trace? (I am not familiar at all with lua.) I am running the stable on Windows. ZaraChimera: This is the link to the mod I was using: https://github.com/ac-minetest/skyblock ZaraChimera: Tried the one from cornernote in the past as well, but the quest progression is not completable either as it has no way to make the iron bars you have to place. ZaraChimera: The Skyblock Redo prevents advancement beyond level 1 because of the issue that Water and Lava don't flow, so I can't get under my starter island using the water to place blocks lower for the stone generator. No stone means no furnaces and no advancement beyond level 1. Sokomine: oh, backup of forum going on? fine 11J​onathon: not much of a noticeable difference, business as usual, forms down, try again later 11J​onathon: to be fair, has been way better since c55 upgraded phpbb and blocked the chinese bots Sven_vB: how is the spawn position for new worlds determined? until now I thought it would just be at 0,0,0 (or above until air) Sven_vB: (and down while air below) 05e​xe_virus: I feel like writing a SDL program that renders a .obj and lets you update textures on the fly shouldn't be too hard to write. But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about..... 05e​xe_virus: Heck, maybe html5 + 3d is libraries will be even faster 05e​xe_virus: The hardest part is connecting textures to the 3D object in html 05e​xe_virus: Nice, it does already exist: https://github.com/Adjam93/threejs-model-viewer acvarium36: Hi. I want to pipe minetest chat to Text to Speech. But messages from chat print in command line only if it is my server. acvarium36: Is there a way to print chat messages to linux command line, if I am connected to the server as a client? Krock: only by modifying the Minetest source code Krock: or using CSMs which might be disabled by server 12W​arr1024: Be aware that text to speech may be hard to use on busy servers where there's a ton of chat happening really fast. 12W​arr1024: For accessibility, increasing the font size may work better in some cases. acvarium36: It would be great, to have the way in game to message people, that are near you. And not as a plugin, but as a feature in the engine core rubenwardy: that can be done by mods on the specific servers that want that rubenwardy: I don't think it should be in the engine Sven_vB: somehow my clouds seems to be blinking. they toggle visibility every few seconds. they stay their course though, so I guess they don't despawn. what might be wrong? using 5.3.0 on Ubuntu Sven_vB: seems to be a bug in the regional weather mod. without that, I don't have any clouds. LoneWolfHT: Did you disable clouds for your client? daiNoZord: There's fall damage - but when a falling node lands on a player, there's no damage.. how come? Krock: because the node isn't damaged either when a player falls on it? daiNoZord: fair point Krock: jk. it's not implemented but I remember a PR about that Krock: or at least a discussion 12W​arr1024: I did node-falling-on-player damage in NodeCore. Doing it properly and gameplay-interestingly was not trivial. It also seems rare enough in normal play that it's arguable whether it's worth the trouble. daiNoZord: True. More ppl would probably be annoyed by it while mining than appreciate in other ways. Ok, so I like to drop sand and gravel when mining to get down big drops, but if I had another falling node, any arbitrary new_node, how do I change it so that it lands and turns into a little spinny "discarded" item? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/falling.lua#L281-L291 Krock: change this code so that it creaes a dropped item daiNoZord: Ah cool thanks Krock: or better: overwrite this function from an external mod to keep things clean as possible 10n​erzhul: this bridge works in 2 ways ? Krock: @nerzhul no 11J​onathon: lol Krock: it works in many ways 10n​erzhul: okay it's the nether Krock: but in this channel there's indeed a duplex connection to discord 12W​arr1024: Discord <-> IRC <-> Matrix and maybe beyond... Krock: Web Log <--^ Krock: supposed to connect to IRC 10n​erzhul: yep i just looked daiNoZord: someone beat me to it.. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Consistently use "health points" (#10868) 1344a9510 https://git.io/JtWTV (152021-01-27T18:42:02Z) sonomicheleya[m]: Hi, I need to update an entity props after a command is issued. I thought I could store the object id in the entity props when it’s activated and then retrieve the object with minetest.object_refs[id]. How can I get the object id from inside the entity on_activate callback? Or is there a better way to do that? sonomicheleya[m]: I know minetest.object_refs shouldn’t be used, it’s the same for minetest.luaentities? If not, how can I get the id and store it? rubenwardy: you can store the ObjectRef as long as you check it before use rubenwardy: ids are not stable so there's not much point in using them rubenwardy: check it -> make sure the methods don't return nil (5.2+) sonomicheleya[m]: I think it should always exists, I mean, I use it when someone is editing the entity so the entity is there sonomicheleya[m]: But I can’t serialize userdata, so I should do something like “entity._obj_ref = nil” before serializing the entity, right? rubenwardy: it tends to be a good idea to only serialize certain keys in an entity sonomicheleya[m]: Yeah that’s a nice idea, I could just serialize custom props thanks 10J​ordach: if you need to store players, just store their player name 10J​ordach: iirc it's the only "objectref" that's technically static across world loading Krock: no exactly. from join to leave. Krock: and singleplayer players IIRC still don't ever leave Krock: or was it on_shutdown that isn't called? no idea 12W​arr1024: fairly sure at least one of those is reliably called on SP quit Krock: yeah sonomicheleya[m]: It’s not a player I need to save, they are npcs, I’ve created a thread on the forum on wip mods section, it’s called folks sonomicheleya[m]: I’ve done it, I don’t think it’s the best way but it works, maybe in the future I’ll figure out another way to do it 05e​xe_virus: Good luck! Npc mods are hard to do right Krock: use AI sonomicheleya[m]: Thank you exe! Andrey01: hello, is there any doc that explains how the rotation system of entities works? I don`t quite understand that thoroughly beanzilla: Hi, I am having an issue with my mod not reading the settings defined in settingstypes.txt in my mod's directory. (Specifically it does not seem to be using the boolean value stored) https://pastebin.com/T7itLwnS beanzilla: Pardon the miss types of settingtypes.txt sfan5: settingtypes.txt is only for the menu, it's not used at runtimes sfan5: runtime* beanzilla: Ok... so what should I use for my mod's config then? sfan5: settingtypes.txt is fine but you'll also need to put the default values into your code beanzilla: Alright, thanks. beanzilla: Ok, I think my code uses the default values now, but it seems it always uses them. How do I have it use what is set in settingtypes.txt then? sfan5: there seems to be another misunderstanding beanzilla: sorry. :( sfan5: settingtypes.txt defines the setting description, types and default values for the menu editor sfan5: the values users set for settings are stored in minetest.conf beanzilla: Ok, so on startup of Minetest that's when the settingtypes.txt is read and loaded, and used by the settings editor in the main menu? sfan5: yes beanzilla: So really what I need to use is something like mod storage? This way mymod will track it's settings and load them on start of it's self? sfan5: no beanzilla: ? sfan5: what you want is for the user to put mymod_allow_command_line = true in their minetest.conf beanzilla: Ah, ok... so in mymod's directory minetest.conf will contain that... then I access it the same way? sfan5: it's the central minetest.conf also used by the engine beanzilla: Ah ok I know where that is now. sfan5: but yes you access it exactly like the code excerpt you posted beanzilla: Ok, now it's starting to make more sense. beanzilla: How do I make it so if it doesn't exist it will add that to the minetest.conf? sfan5: you could explicitly call set_bool(...) but why? beanzilla: Oh, duh the default would then be used so, nvm. sfan5: yes Sven_vB: in a server-side LUA mod, how can I check players' positions? All I can find is minetest.get_player_information() but its result doesn't have position. rubenwardy: get_pos() on a player's object rubenwardy: You can get a player object from callbacks, from get_player_by_name, or get_connected_players Sven_vB: thanks! 05e​xe_virus: Players are also entities, so most functions that work for entities work for players. Hence this works: local player = minetest.get_player_by_name("name) Local pos = player:get_pos() Sven_vB: oh I see, I had looked for data props but not methods Sven_vB: thanks! rubenwardy: Players and entities are both objects rubenwardy: Players aren't entities 05e​xe_virus: Well true. My bad, I said it wrong Griff555: Hey people Griff555: Anybody knows shivajiva? Griff555: Shiva nephele: Sven_vB_: mods can open files afaik, so you might be able to construct a chatacter device to write into and have that be executed nephele: not sure if you really want to implement the whole TTY protocol in lua though... Sven_vB: thanks, I'll make a character device connected to my TTY and try to make LUA use that as a file. nephele: Just be aware that TTY has lots of warts ;) nephele: running lua code from the chat, or from a device should be fairly easy though, this is how i did it : https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest-gamemode-orion/src/branch/master/mods/sparkdebug/lua/chat.lua nephele: you could also register a chat command that starts a "interceptor" state for the chat, which then adds all your subsequent messages to a lua script untill you write EOF, or a command to exit or so nephele: then you can use line based writing in the chat Sven_vB: maybe there's a misunderstanding, I don't want to implement a TTY. I'll probably just run screen in the tty and have that screen connect to the character device. nephele: If you run TTY on one side, but not the other you will get garbage on the lua end nephele: e.g if you use right cursor button in your TTY the character device will get some wierd escape sequences, and if you don't handle them it will assume that it is lua code Sven_vB: oh I remember, that thing I called TTY really is called a virtual console nephele: TTY is a protocol, of a "real" console ;), just that it's now virtual ones Sven_vB: good call, I'd better add rlwrap to the mix so I can edit my command more easily. Sven_vB: or maybe I should use minicom instead of screen nephele: using the chat seems far easier, but it will be interesting what you come up with :) Sven_vB: well, I guess figuring out the human side of the chardev is off-topic here Sven_vB: well, for rlwrap I'd need a shell anyway, so I'll just use socat with readline on the interactive side. nephele: problem with repl is that you basically need to implement the repl yourself, since you can't just call the lua repl nephele: unless lua has somehow exposed this from luaspace Sven_vB: chat would be an option but it's displayed in my game console, that's too noisy. nephele: You can also display it on the hud or so ;) nephele: or a formspec, or so Sven_vB: I was thinking of just pcall eval each line read nephele: that is kinda what this does: https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest-gamemode-orion/src/branch/master/mods/sparkdebug/lua/tablet.lua nephele: just that it doesn't print the output on the formspec, maybe i'll add that... and multiline editing, at some point nephele: eh... maybe Sven_vB: I'm trying to make the REPL in a way that least interferes with normal gameplay nephele: well, formspec and chat are basically the only two ingame input methods you have for text nephele: other than that, the character device, but you have to figure out yourself how you want your client and server (luaspace) to look :) Sven_vB: a pair of fifos probably is even easier. rlwrap sh -c 'cat -- repl.out & cat >>repl.in; wait' Sven_vB: how do I find other player's position in a CSM? I'd like to make my "camera" bot's view follow other players Krock: minetest.localplayer:get_pos().y + minetest.camera:get_offset().y Krock: ^ Sven_vB Sven_vB: oh thanks, that's indeed a better way to detect my own head's position. Sven_vB: still, how do I track other players' characters? Krock: 1. you can't Krock: 2. ???? Krock: 3. it's not implemented yet due to security/cheating concerns Sven_vB: 3 sounds plausible Sven_vB: I wish players in the devs' bubble would be as nice and fun-loving people as my friends are, then we could have such a nice game with so many useful features. * Krock: looks at the 8447 line long lua_api.txt imi: hi. is there anything I can do to get this eventually accepted: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9959 ? Krock: by causing noise like you did just now Sven_vB: Krock, not client_lua_api? Krock: Sven_vB: well yeah, but there's likely not much hope because everything else could be abused for unfair gameplay Sven_vB: Krock, I know. thus I'm writing tools to circumvent those futile attempts prevent the useful features Sven_vB: the more it annoys me, the more I tend to just take the good parts and make my own game, but currently I still have some hope that I might be able to share my nice features with original MineTest's players imi: is this related to my patch or have I dropped in the middle of an ongoing conversation? sfan5: latter Krock: imi: "by causing noise like you did just now". for you. The PR implements a feature that's currently not a common workflow (changing MT internals or settings using CSM-style) Krock: hence stirring up some mud might help a bit imi: you know, since I know CPP and I wanted this feature I felt it would be ready earlier if I implemented it myself imi: maybe I'll redo the patch once 5.4.0 is out imi: s/patch/pull request/ imi: ok thank you for the info guys Krock: yw Sven_vB: with the func callback of minetest.register_chatcommand, how do I get the name of the player that sent it? in the example, the function seems to receive just the command arguments. rubenwardy: the first argument is `name` Sven_vB: then the short parameter description params = " ", is misleading TomTom: hmm today I had massive sync problems with one client... messages like this "WARNING[ConnectionSend]: con(14/1) Packet quota used up for peer_id=11, was 256 pkts" on client and serverside. also many of this "ACTION[Server]: Server: Player moved too fast: V=0, H=170.839; resetting position." Krock: yes. networking sucks. TomTom: anything what the client or server can do about this? whats the bottleneck here? Krock: the server could try to increase the setting max_packets_per_iteration to 4096 or higher, although it would only delay the issue Krock: the client would then still need to process the packets to not get this error, as well as the server Sven_vB: do whe have a mod with palm trees that have actual flat-ish palm leaves, rather than full blocks? Krock: be the first to write a mod for it TomTom: Krock: so the client is the problem here, because he can not process the amount of packets in time? Krock: if the client gets the same errors, then it's either due to a lossy connection and/or bad networking code Krock: there was a little change in this regard in 5.3.0 (IIRC). the difference to before is basically this additional logged message which was silent previously Krock: as long the client/server can catch up with the packet queue there should be no issue. Random time-outs and disconnects would be concerning. TomTom: the client is an old x86, maybe its the cause... Krock: architecture does not matter, unless it's a Pentium 3 machine which might suffer from severe lack of FPS Krock: and computational power in all other regards Sven_vB: in 5.3.0, in the content browser, when I search for "hard_trees_redo"/"All Packages", why does it not find https://content.minetest.net/packages/Hamlet/hard_trees_redo/ ? sfan5: I assume it's because there's no downloads Sven_vB: oh. indeed. w00t Pharsalos: Why is this so dead 11J​onathon: lol Pharsalos: This game used to be on fire 11J​onathon: the irc channel is about normal activity 11J​onathon: see logs in irc.minetest.net Pharsalos: Is there a chat thing? 11J​onathon: chat thing? Pharsalos: Also Pharsalos: Do u know Shivajiva? 11J​onathon: i know who they are Pharsalos: Really? Pharsalos: Im looking for him 11J​onathon: and spoke to them once in passing? 04o​neplustwo: the most important part: do you know where he lives? Pharsalos: Does he have a server again? Pharsalos: Dam i miss old times Pharsalos: I used to come here as a kid playing and chatting Pharsalos: Dam Pharsalos: This thing is paranoid about robots 11J​onathon: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14960&p=233722 says its closed Pharsalos: Yeah i actually seen this 11J​onathon: acording to github, last seen oct 11, 2020 Pharsalos: But the last tweet was like 3 years ago now Pharsalos: Well i just wanted to say hello to him Pharsalos: And told him i wont forget the memories there Pharsalos: Or here Pharsalos: I will also thank you Jonathon here Pharsalos: Because i dont know which one was where you sent the messages 11J​onathon: np Sven_vB: when a seed consists of just digits, is it hashed at all? sfan5: don't think so * cheapie: mumbles something about "porting dxdiag to minetest" https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210124_202041.png cheapie: (making a 2D "GPU" for digistuff, needed a test pattern to render in 64x64, this seemed like a good option and is indeed being rendered with "hardware" acceleration) cheapie: It gets kinda confusing sometimes keeping track of the various layers of software/hardware/etc. at play here - the image is being rendered by a separate node ("hardware") outside of the Luacontroller, so it's hardware acceleration as far as the LuaC is concerned, but at the same time, said other node is really a piece of software since MT is itself software and not a physical world, so it's not hardware acceleration in *that* sense... Rumored: :[ Guest0: What is currently the best protection mod for a dedicated server? I tried protection_redux, but that one doesn't seem to work. PS: server is a 5.3.0 server. Guest0: I would like something I can protect a large area as admin, and have players use a block/placeable to protect smaller areas on their own. Rumored: remake that game takes not one thing; so i hesitate to disturb peoples D: 06F​lamore: https://github.com/minetest-mods/areas Guest0: Is that the one with the p-block I've seen on some other public servers? rubenwardy: no, that's protector Guest0: Also is it more current to get mods from github rather than the content db? Thank you for your support. rubenwardy: depends on the mod Guest0: ok Guest0: is it possible to use areas and protector or might they conflict with each other? Guest0: A lot of the descriptions for the mods seem too brief to be very helpful and informative. rubenwardy: yes, it's usually possible to mix protection mods rubenwardy: if they're inclusive rather than exclusive rubenwardy: If a protection mod protects everything by default, then it's hard to mix with other mods rubenwardy: mixing protection mods may result in some areas not being editable if they do conflict badly Guest0: Is anyone here actively using protect & areas together successfully without issues or conflicts on their servers? Guest0: Well I looked through the server list @ https://servers.minetest.net/ because I remembered hovering over the name shows mods on some, and I do see areas and protector both being used on some servers, so that makes me feel a bit safer trying them both. BuckarooBanzai: Guest0: both work when used together, but: it is possible to use an area protection over an already (with protection-blocks) protected area Guest0: Buckaroo: do you mean that as a good thing or a bad effect? Guest0: the statement after the "but" nephele: area protection is basically a callback that the mods answer to nephele: if both have a different set of "allowed" users you might have a situation where one mod rejects the placement, but the other allows it, so it is rejected nephele: if you have two differen sets of users in two mods for the same area you would then not be able to place anything since one or the other would reject the placement then Guest0: Ok, so what I think you are saying is don't use both on the same area? Because one will not prevent the other being used? nephele: yeah, kinda Guest0: I'm only planning on giving area to myself or other admins if I have those, and regular players will only use protector blocks. Does that sound logical? (And admins or me will know to not use both.) nephele: if the same user uses both that isn't a problem, but if one user could use an area, and the other an area protection block it could be that the smaller area is encased in the bigger one and both cant edit, then Guest0: If both get used in the same area it can mess up the entire map? nephele: not really, unless the mods are broken Guest0: Let me read what you wrote one more time to make sure I comprehend it. nephele: it would only be a problem for the area both mods try to protect at the same time Guest0: If that circumstance happens that you said 3 posts ago occurs, can the areas of protection be removed and re-created to solve the issue? Rumored: if that 2nd line by mistake i had diamonds in carbone, it's limited that way after :-< nephele: yeah, most likely, i would assume that most protection mods will simply say "you are admin so its okay" in any case 06F​lamore: privilege protection_bypass nephele: but if users manage to do that (unless they manage to do that with a race condition) they can remove the area in the reverse order they were created Guest0: ok. Because I am trying to give myself the owner of the server a larger protected area, but wanted other players who join to be able to protect smaller areas. Is this the best recommended way to go about it, or is there other options or suggestions? There isn't a single mod that does both already is there? That would be most convenient. nephele: I would think a mod that does both would be ideal, but i have no idea tbh, never tried to install such mods :) Guest0: Maybe future going someone will incorporate both into a single mod. Or maybe if I learn Lua and become competent I can have a try at doing so. Too bad I can't use Python, since I'm good with Python. Guest0: It's not currently possible to program mods with Python though? Guest0: I did find this topic on forum: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17268 06F​lamore: python would be harder to implement than lua so it's a no go. 06F​lamore: Well, unless you had some sort of foreign function interface rubenwardy: you can use https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13316 for Python scripting rubenwardy: it's not full modding though 06F​lamore: it's mainly voxel manipulation rubenwardy: there's no real need to use Python. It's slower and a similar paradigm Rumored: python. it's slower than programming android :/ daiNoZord: i googled python to lua converter and it seems someones had a crack at it - no idea if it works tho....... rubenwardy: the only real reason is that Python is common in education, which is why that mod exists 06F​lamore: there's no converter, it's only transpilers. rubenwardy: JavaScript could be a better language, it has more support and there's better language features and TypeScript 06F​lamore: yeah, but size wise? 06F​lamore: and compatibility must stayt rubenwardy: Nothing will be as small as Lua rubenwardy: sure, but any suggested alternative language will break compatibility 06F​lamore: we could start with moonscript, it compiles to lua in the end. Guest0: I'm decent with javascript too, I utterly hate java though. rubenwardy: Kotlin makes Android dev much nicer Guest0: Yes, I read Google officially switched Android official language to Kotlin also from Java. nephele: just until they ditch it for dart and ditch linux for fuchsia :) Guest0: I programmed a couple apps for Android in Java before Kotlin was there, and it was a bit of a nightmare. 06F​lamore: https://haxe.org/ take a look at this, maybe mt mods in haxe? it compiles to not only lua. rubenwardy: I've never looked at Dart but I'm going to automatically hate on it because it's not Kotlin Guest0: nepehele, things are always changing with computers, have to keep on your toes to not get stagnant. nephele: dart is used for flutter Guest0: I've been using computers since before the internet existed. Guest0: I guess that dates me a bit. nephele: but flutter is mostly cross platform, and native on fuchsia anyhow nephele: so it's not really "to jvm" code nephele: not that android uses a jvm type model anymore... Guest0: Ruebn on that forum post you say "Also, Python isn't a very good scripting language due to its architecture." What do you mean by that? I use Python for scripting on almost a daily basis. Guest0: Ruben* rubenwardy: I added a link afterwards to explain that Rumored: i added this: https:github.comceleron55minetestcommit25cf3757b29a0397e201a4719788ead3dc76ec94 :| rubenwardy: I use Python too, ContentDB is written using Python Guest0: Hmm,ok let go follow the link then.. rubenwardy: TL;DR: embedding python can break a lot of the standard library and other things you might expect nephele: learning lua is not /that/ hard i think Rumored: while it might or might have uses cpu load bouncing between 24 and 12 :S Guest0: I got lost in reading that forum post, but it seems it starts to get into a fight of python vs lua for those posters. Some are partial to one language and some are partial to the other. nephele: not that it matters nephele: mt has lua, so if you want to mod it its probably a good idea to learn atleast some :P Guest0: Have both of those mods installed and so far, so good (protect and areas) Guest0: Just protected a large area with my main character I gave admin privs to. and tested out p-blocks before hand. Guest0: I think the only thing I have left to add now is some player skins. Because currently everyone is the same looking man, and there are no females. Any suggestion on which mod for that? Guest0: Oh and I have one other question: When a mod says "depends on default" is that default included already with minetest-server, or is that a mod I have to add? nephele: default is a mod included in minetest game nephele: it's confusingly named, unfortunately :) Guest0: Ok, I thought that might be the case, but wanted to be sure. thanks. nephele: (note that minetest game isn't installed per default, but is an option... that is somewhat confusing too) rubenwardy: Minetest Game is still installed per default Rumored: game pretty hard at that ridiculous repeat after me kek nephele: rubenwardy: not on FreeBSD... 11J​onathon: and some other distros nephele: and not if you just clone minetest rubenwardy: well, that's up to the distro maintainer nephele: so not sure where you mean? rubenwardy: we ship with Minetest Game by default nephele: if you use a server it's unlikely that you would use the snap version or so though rubenwardy: I think the Ubuntu official PPA ships with MTG rubenwardy: Ubuntu also has minetest in its distros, but that's not maintained by us Guest0: minetest came by default in both Manjaro and Debian nephele: that's an interesting choice Guest0: I don't like Ubuntu :P rubenwardy: the great thing about Linux is you can choose your distro and how your PC is setup rubenwardy: I use Manjaro XFCE and everything is set up how I like Guest0: I love Linux :D Guest0: I use Manjaro for my fun and play computer and my work computer, and I use Debian for my servers. rubenwardy: same, but also Ubuntu for servers rubenwardy: I have one server on ubuntu and two on debian Guest0: Debian seems out of date sometimes, but she's always stable and reliable. Guest0: Ruben do you have a suggestion for a player skins mod? to get more looks and female skins? Guest0: I'm running photo realism texture, and it seems to have only one character look, unless im not finding the place to change it. Rumored: photo realism texture, and deliver appropriate licensing :--< rubenwardy: !mod [skins MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Skinsdb [skinsdb] by bell07 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17899 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb rubenwardy: !mod [skins] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: In-game skin switching [skins] by Zeg9 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4147 - https://github.com/Zeg9/minetest-skins Rumored: 8< rubenwardy: I want simple skins rubenwardy: !mod simple skins MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Simple Skins [simple_skins] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9100 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/simple_skins rubenwardy: ofc nephele: rubenwardy: it's also linux biggest disadvantage rubenwardy: Yeah, it makes supporting Linux hard rubenwardy: but there's thing like Steam runtime and Snap/Flatpak/Appimage to make it easier rubenwardy: plus, really you only need to support Ubuntu and Linux people will add support for others nephele: Guest0: I must say, debian has been quite unstable for me, especially with their shoddy integration of systemd Guest0: thank for those suggestions, I'll look them over. 09w​war: TenPlus1 updated simple_skins and now it support unified inventory 🎊 rubenwardy: gross rubenwardy: I'm kidding Guest0: Thanks MTD Rumored: oh thanks man pm@forum to claim religious discrimination, its all D: rubenwardy: Rumored: what are you talking about? Rumored: rubenwardy: crafts of mob war here is to enforce trademarks on candyswipe, but also usrlocalshareminetest or we used redis backend for map generation :-< rubenwardy: that literally makes no sense Krock: rubenwardy: time to expand your noob gen script rubenwardy: you said it, not me rubenwardy: they responded very quickly and it was basically gibberish, makes me think they're a bot Krock: Rumored: hi Rumored: Krock: a question do it there was 50 folders x at all assume it's because that's blender's default dube, sized down by some factors :'< Krock: yeah it's a bot rubenwardy: yep Krock: ---> https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/4cb29fedb7952e5a4cdf rubenwardy: god that was ages ago Krock: now you're capable of replacing it with an AI rubenwardy: June 2014 Krock: which produces even worse glibberish stuff Krock: like yesterday man nephele: a neuRalnetbutdoesituseRuomeredsubstrings rubenwardy: I think the main differences between me then and now are 1) more unit tests 2) more depression Krock: both can be solved by writing less code rubenwardy: that is true 09w​war: Less is a new programing language? :trollface: daiNoZord: ive got an idea about how maybe I can make a finish line for a race track - tho atm I dont know if I can do more than one lap - Has it already been done? rubenwardy: I'd define the track as waypoints, and then track the progress of the player through those waypoints rubenwardy: Waypoint meaning that original meaning rather than a HUD waypoint rubenwardy: So you'd define the track as a list of positions, then store the last waypoint position for each racecar rubenwardy: This makes it easier to be sure that cars can't just go backwards or skip bits daiNoZord: Ah good point, ok thanks :) daiNoZord: I think Id use a number of nodes to detect a players presence around the track then if wp1, and if wp2 and ... then both players inevitably make it to the end or die trying... then save players crossing the finish line in a list with the lowest value index being the winner. Does that sound about right? daiNoZord: Actually - the finish line doesnt make sense - I over-complicated it. As soon as first player crosses - send chat and game over daiNoZord: waypoints were a great idea tho - if ive got the idea of doing those right :) adfeno: Hi there, is there any mod to bridge a XMPP room to a Minetest server ? 07c​obs: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/803319719112998922/MV5QoMLywAKwixHnRSZpEFaAuLAJe1PURjAYoWadUSAAx3AADLHQAAzDMpWHeAJovsDkBWlclttgOMCqZGozcyCq8DAA4s6qZsyG.png Krock: fake. there's no reflection of the sun in the water 04o​neplustwo: fake. the sun is square Rumored: :--< Rumored: :--< nephele: I agree Sven_vB: hi :) in 5.3.0 in singleplayer, do we have some mechanism to interactively try LUA commands that would be available for a server-side mod? Sven_vB: on linux btw Sven_vB: ideally I'd like to connect a TTY to a LUA REPL Krock: wait what I know this name Krock: WorldEdit has a //lua command Sven_vB: thanks, I'll install that and try. Krock: does not cover the "ideally" case though. you'd need a custom mod to implement that Sven_vB: I'll just have xdotool type into the chat console for now Sven_vB: my content browser says "ownloading..." for one of the mods I found. should there be a progress bar? Sven_vB: most of the "d" in front is cut off, so maybe is the progress in front of that? Krock: There's no progress bar Sven_vB: are there well-maintained forks that favor a wide world, possibly sacrificing height? rubenwardy: no Sven_vB: what would be the performance penalty of doubling the integers from 16 to 32 bits, on 64-bit CPUs? ist the GPU involved, too? rubenwardy: there are 3 coordinates rubenwardy: so 3*16=48bits Sven_vB: oh right I can keep height as is Sven_vB: well, not sure if that will work with vector operations. Sven_vB: could be that for SIMD optimization I need all 3 to be 32 bits Sven_vB: for network and storage I'm still figuring out how many bits I want to spend on each coordinate. fortunately my target audience is rich enough that LAN bandwidth and disk space probably won't be a bottleneck. :) Sven_vB: I'd prbably go with 64 bits, 10 or 12 for height, the others half for north/east Sven_vB: I guess +33% coordinates traffic will be ok even for WAN multiplayer. Sven_vB: imagine traveling maps like Denmark https://www.minecraftforum.net/news/8225-denmark-in-minecraft-all-of-it with our boats and trains. would be nice to be able to in a free software voxel game. nephele: Hey sfan5, i build e1142ee57f2d7b59a86f6d0d72ae043844bc3121 sucesfully nephele: i'll try to use git bisect to see if i can find a newer-er working commit sfan5: thanks for the info nephele: git bisect claims that 560627eef8c02f8201e639c75fcd5301d3a33077 is the first bad commit sfan5: that makes sense and unfortunately doesn't help, because that's the commit that adds PcgRandom use to sky.cpp nephele: it's already used in other parts, so i suppose the question becomes what is different for sky.cpp :) nephele: sfan5: is there some more investigating i can do? sfan5: you could find out 1) what symbol the PcgRandom constructor compiles to in noise.cpp 2) what symbol name sky.cpp tries to import for the constructor sfan5: readelf and probably do it but it's not so simple sfan5: can* search_social: hello where do i enter an "invite code" to join a server? sfan5: there is no such thing as an invite code search_social: my friend who normally plays on my server sent me this but i can't find the "host server" tab search_social: Please visit our world if you can. I don’t think there is a way to connect via IP address. I use the app called MultiCraft. It works on the Mac as well as the iPhone, and probably other platforms as well. search_social: 1. Go to the tab labeled “host server” search_social: 2. use “connect” on the left and enter: search_social: 3. the invite code: BY373WES search_social: 4. Your own info. nephele: Maybe they were talking about a different game? Krock: "host server" means that you're creating a new server on your device search_social: they are my friend from my server search_social: but i can't join their server it seems Krock: they need to give you their IP address after forwarding the server's port so that you can join search_social: okay Krock: assuming it's hosted on PC/mobile behind a router Krock: the Minetest wiki and forums should explain that as well search_social: thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! sfan5: are you sure that's the same multicraft that is compatible with mt? nephele: sfan5: Well, not sure how i would do that... nephele: :) nephele: probably above my pay grade untill i learn more about symbols and linking in general, heh :P search_social: well it's the one they use to connect to my server search_social: idk the github multicraft i installed but it has no "host server" tab either search_social: and the .apk multicraft hangs in anbox and shashlik search_social: oh but i could connect to my own server with the github multicraft and it doesn't show the address and port like minetest does, so i can't get the address and port from them that way either search_social: this is what it looks like on the app: https://0x0.st/--Z4.png sfan5: oh interesting sfan5: didn't even know they had something like that search_social: well it seems to be interesting as a curse because it seems my friend has built a world which cannot be shared with me rubenwardy: It's probably for NAT punchthrough 11J​onathon: That looks like multicraft search_social: yes they used multicraft to connect to my world search_social: but i can't connect to their world 11J​onathon: Because the "host tab" is specific to there client 11J​onathon: Im not sure how to translate the code to ip and port search_social: but i even download the multicraft client https://github.com/MultiCraft/MultiCraft search_social: but the tab still isn't there on desktop search_social: and the code doesn't seem to mention it at all 11J​onathon: I have no idea, seems thats a question for @MoNTE48 search_social: okay i made git issue search_social: thanks search_social: "This feature only for mobile players and not availabled for PC. There is no plan to allow PC players connect to this servers." numzero: ...as PC players should be able to host servers themselves? AFAIK the “invite-code” servers are hosted on the remote machines MoNTE48 operates rubenwardy: connecting though numzero: btw world format of MT and MC is the same (AFAIK) but not sure is it ever possible to get the world data from such remote server rubenwardy: is it a remote server or is it NAT punchthrough? rubenwardy: I guess remote server makes sense Krock: why not? it's open source so you can fake Android rubenwardy: Krock: no source code numzero: Krock: you can emulate Android client, but you can’t get the data only server has rubenwardy: If this ned an LGPL violation if it needs support in the C++. If it's just a main menu feature to connect to a remote server, and Monte has remade his main menu 100% from scratch, then it's not rubenwardy: oops accidentally submitted numzero: and IRC retains forever... numzero: yet that’s not an LGPL violation as MC source is available numzero: it’s there on GH rubenwardy: MC source doesn't include that apparently numzero: just not marked as MT fork search_social: i can't seem to get the multicraft.apk to work with anbox or shashlik both load a little then hang rubenwardy: Yeah: https://github.com/MultiCraft/MultiCraft/blob/master/builtin/mainmenu/init.lua#L65 02M​oNTE48: Its just lua code, not more. So i'm not violate license. 100% of C++ code in repo 02M​oNTE48: Marked in readme, in credits rubenwardy: yeah 02M​oNTE48: MultiCraft is based on the Minetest project, which is developed by a number of contributors [link] is second line in MultiCraft readme rubenwardy: Am I right that this feature is creates a remote server on your machines? rubenwardy: like MC realms 02M​oNTE48: Yes you right. All magic done on my servers. rubenwardy: Sounds cool. How do you manage persistence? Krock: docker perhaps rubenwardy: Like, can a player go offline and then join the server again 02M​oNTE48: It's a secret, I'm sorry. rubenwardy: lol Krock: HTTP request to a master server, which then starts a docker image and returns a port number - that's my guess Krock: then connect to that and let your friends join using an additional key which then also translates to the port number 02M​oNTE48: Yes. We can run about 2-2.5k servers same time using our servers ) rubenwardy: oh wow Krock: there's a pretty amazing number Krock: s/there/that/ 02M​oNTE48: Krok, you saw through me. Yes, it if you want explain how it works in 2 sentences. Krock: nah it's fine rubenwardy: Servers don't need to be online all the time - you can use socket activation or just the HTTP API to start them. The files could be a concern, but then you can just keep track of the last played time Krock: cannot imagine what kind of server hardware you'd need for that. surely quite expensive to run that many server. well done. Krock: rubenwardy: yeah. a simple HTTP request can re-activate it after the last player left 02M​oNTE48: Not so expensive until there are PC players Krock: and auto-purge after 6 months or so rubenwardy: why are PC players expensive if you only allow them to join servers? rubenwardy: I guess no ads Krock: ^ my guess as well 02M​oNTE48: MultiCraft haven't fast or noclip on android. Also, view distance is very limited rubenwardy: view distance doesn't effect the server rubenwardy: but fast will do - you can just not grant that though 02M​oNTE48: No, there is no ads. This for free for my players. Ads only in real singleplayer mode rubenwardy: Oh right 02M​oNTE48: So the server simply won't accept a player using a non-MultiCraft if he finds an IP: port Krock: there's definitely a way to circumvent that anyway.. Krock: but well, not an interesting matter to me 02M​oNTE48: The same if you don't have an invite code: without it, the server will refuse to connect even if you pretend to be an official client search_social: yes so now i can't see my friend's world 02M​oNTE48: Krock, every program is created to be hacked. I just hope that no one is interested in joining some cozy server for 2-5 people and wreaking havoc. Krock: ofc. there's also no benefit in it 02M​oNTE48: I'm sorry. Buy a tablet, or invite your friends to create a real public Minetest server search_social: ofc i can do that but the world they made is locked away rubenwardy: you can use local map saving rubenwardy: there's a minetest setting that allows you to download worlds, assuming that's not removed from MC numzero: settings menu is disabled in MC rubenwardy: lol rubenwardy: you can edit the minetest.conf in the files probably numzero: yes you can numzero: and that setting seems to be available numzero: it can’t save private meta ofc numzero: (I hope so at least) rubenwardy: I can't rubenwardy: *it numzero: nephele: try readelf -Ws path/to/sky.cpp.o numzero: and the same with noise.cpp.o numzero: (on my system these files are in cmake-build-directory/src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/) rubenwardy: I think the problem is that u64 is defined in both irrTypes.h and irrlichttypes.h rubenwardy: in irrTypes, it'll be unsigned long long rubenwardy: in irrlichttypes.h, it's uint64_t numzero: is it defined in irrlichttypes.h for Irrlicht 1.8+ numzero: ? rubenwardy: really, it should always be uint64_t rubenwardy: oh that only happens for <1.8 rubenwardy: this is very much a #minetest-dev convo numzero: nephele isn’t there now MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve irr_ptr (#10808) 138dae7b4 https://git.io/JtZeV (152021-01-24T14:40:34Z) numzero: how weird. I have *two* PcgRandom::PcgRandom(unsigned long, unsigned long) in my noise.cpp.o numzero: both defined, with the same address and size numzero: heh, mangled names differ: _ZN9PcgRandomC2Emm and _ZN9PcgRandomC1Emm numzero: C++ is weird, with all its inheritance construction rules rubenwardy: How do you use list rings on Android? sfan5: rubenwardy: why do we redefine a type irrlicht provides? rubenwardy: for backwards compat currently rubenwardy: nephele: which Irrlicht version do you have installed? sfan5: irrlicht 1.7 is so old it'd be better to just drop support rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: I agree with that nephele: rubenwardy: none nephele: unless the 5.3.0 port has one installed nephele: >irrlicht-1.8.4_2 High performance realtime 3D engine nephele: guess this one nephele: numzero: i wouldn't mind joining -dev if needed though numzero: in the meanwhile I managed to run Minetest + Irrlicht-on-SDL on Android numzero: with working GUI ofc numzero: this Irrlicht: https://github.com/numberZero/irrlicht/tree/master/ numzero: and this Minetest: https://github.com/numberZero/minetest/tree/android-dev numzero: includes some SDL code as required for SDL on Android; also building is not fully automatic as some dependencies are missing from the archive: SDL, Irrlicht, libjpeg, libpng. Compile them all with cmake as static libraries (SDL’s libhidapi.so is always shared) and put into deps like others Krock: but that's already a good start nephele: how can i view the seed of a created world? nephele: ah... nvm, its in f5 hisforever: Hi I would like to know what I'm doing wrong. I keep doing the wrong thing in the billboard nodes.lua script. here is a screenshot https://imgur.com/a/sTCgBuR hisforever: If you need a pastbin of the script I'll be happy to do it hisforever: Here is the script for the billboard nodes.lua https://pastebin.com/kva6P88t sfan5: your strings are missing an " and you are missing commas too hisforever: Thanks Stan5 hisforever: thoes commas are hard to see lol hisforever: sfan5: thanks fpr the help, I've been fighting that for days :) sfan5: you might need a better (or larger) font if you have issues hisforever: I'll do that blessings bye hisforever: I have a Question that might sound odd. Can the billboard mod display more than 8 images? Zughy[m]1: I guess you should ask it to the mod creator hisforever: ok Thanks hisforever: Hi I'm having trouble with Billboard mod Here is a pastbin of the code https://pastebin.com/rJ5UccA1 hisforever: what I'm having trouble with is the b_woman.png. I put the b_woman in the texture file. and all I get is a blank white square? pengolod: howdy - i'm trying to get setup with joining a server, but i can't even change the resolution for the game? pengolod: for some reason it won't respond to any mouse input.. could someone help me w/ this please? pengolod: ah.. i've figured out my problem??? the UI is rendering at 1/4 the window size in the bottom left, but the mouse input is rendering where it should be in the window???? I'll make a github issue instead of pestering this channel more Hawk777: I think someone mentioned something similar in the channel a while ago. I don’t remember the details, but perhaps someone else did, or maybe you could look at the IRC logs (they’re linked in the topic). Hawk777: It wasn’t very long ago, maybe the last few weeks. Exactly the same problem, rendering and input disagreeing about screen size. rubenwardy: pengolod: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10654 pengolod: thx - my issue was closed as a dupe of that rubenwardy: ahh was wondering rubenwardy: oh, you said you'd open an issue Norkle: YEEE! Krock: wat Zughy[m]1: Krock: once you have the converted ItemStack in a table, how can you revert the process to obtain a stack? Krock: ItemStack(table) Krock: constructor, so to day. Krock: s/day/say/ Zughy[m]1: rip, I was looking for things like to_stack, to_itemstack. Thanks :) Krock: np Herkules: Hello, i have a little administration question: How do i find out which ABM takes the most time to execute? Herkules: Background: I do get the the warning that the ABMs took over 201ms and the server is lagging. sfan5: I think the server-side profiler can do that Herkules: Thank you, but how do i access the server-side profiler? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1606 Herkules: Thank you :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: FormSpec: Add list spacing, slot size, and noclip (#10083) 13009e39e https://git.io/JtsyW (152021-01-23T20:46:19Z) nephele: sfan5: Hey, i tested https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10859 to try and fix a linker issue on Freebsd, it seems similar to the macos reported one "ld: error: undefined symbol: PcgRandom::PcgRandom(unsigned long long, unsigned long long) " ">>> referenced by sky.cpp" nephele: It didn't seem to help, sadly :( sfan5: did you bisect it? nephele: what do you mean by that? nephele: i git pulled from your repository into master Krock: "git bisect" using the last known commit that works nephele: i don't know which does nephele: tag 5.3.0 doesn't compile for me either, but before any linking errors Krock: that'll go through the least necessary steps to compile Minetest and re-try Krock: .. until a working version was found. that's for regression testing. nephele: Krock: yes... but it requires a known good commit nephele: i can't know if it was present in 5.3.0 or not if the build fails before reaching the linking stage Krock: logs would be helpful to troubleshoot that nephele: troubleshoot a broken build of an old version? nephele: or what do you mean? Krock: perhaps. it would be an idea to fix one issue after the other. another idea is to check what happens if you comment out PcgRandom and substitute .range() calls with 0 here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/sky.cpp#L855-L862 nephele: https://termbin.com/phpb Krock: PcgRandom is used in other places as well, so the error is kinda strange nephele: Krock: whatever issue 5.3.0 had was certainly fixed though, otherwise it would still occur Krock: good nephele: i assume it's just the first place it tries to link it into nephele: master compiles completely for me, just doesn't link anyhow, pasted the linker error above nephele: (on FreeBSD 12-RELEASE) nephele: 12.2 sfan5: nephele: does it help if you add an #include "util/numeric.h" to noise.h? nephele: no sfan5: hm sfan5: I wonder what it compiled the function as MinetestBot: 02[git] 04yamanq -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix ESC in error dialog from closing Minetest (#10838) 136417f4d https://git.io/Jts9C (152021-01-23T21:40:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix formspec list spacing (#10861) 13ad9adcb https://git.io/Jts5Y (152021-01-23T22:49:13Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Make hypertext and textarea have proper scroll event propagation. (#1… 136a55c03 https://git.io/Jts5O (152021-01-23T22:48:57Z) Sven_vB: I just learned there's a map size limit at around 31k blocks in each direction, where does that limitation come from and why is it so low? tango_: Sven_vB: the limitation comes from the use of 16-bit integers for nodes positions, and it's actually much larger than what minecraft has Sven_vB: oh. I want to believe the latter sentence, so thanks. 09w​war: Minecraft world = 910^8 square kilometers.  Minetest world = 21610^9 square kilometers. 09w​war: Minetest world = 216*10^9 square kilometers. 03Z​ander_200: wow im in the IRC now :O tech_exorcist: you aren't tech_exorcist: you're on Shitcord Aris: heh rubenwardy: that doesn't even work Sven_vB: tango_, meh, that nice belief is shattered. https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/World_boundary claims Minecraft had its limit at +/- 30M, so a thousand times bigger, isn't it? 09w​war: Minecraft's Y lvl are few Sven_vB: oh, so in MT we can't go as far, but higher/lower? 09w​war: 1 more Y lvl = 64k*64k more blocls on minetest 09w​war: Yes 09w​war: Minetest world is cube 09w​war: Minecraft world is rectangle Sven_vB: I see. unfortunately the players I'm trying to convince are surface dwellers usually. Krock: !c 62000^3/(1000^3) MinetestBot: TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'int' and 'float' Krock: !c 62000**3/(1000**3) MinetestBot: 238328.0 09w​war: 64000^3 = minetest world Krock: no 09w​war: Wait Krock: the outer 2000 are not usable due to mapgen Krock: unless you use chunksize = 1 Krock: furthest you get is around 31780 or so 09w​war: Yup 09w​war: I guess only people with some privialges can go like that Krock: but I messed up the powers Krock: !c 62**2 MinetestBot: 3844 Krock: ^ this many (km)² 09w​war: For me i could get to 30925 on a survival server but a staff member went over that Krock: object positions have no limit Krock: well the f32 max/min is the limit 09w​war: But i couldnt go over that for some reason 06F​lamore: Move over 16-bits, time for 32 bits. Sven_vB: I'll make a feature request Krock: for what? Krock: if you want 32-bit coordinates your issue will be closed as duplicate in an instant Krock: use the search function. there should be plenty results Sven_vB: oh. will do again. yesterday I couldn't find a suitable issue. Sven_vB: ok found issue 8660. do I understand correctly that the only problem is out mapgen can't decide blocks for those large coordinates? the a stopgap might be to mirror-repeat the area of the world that mapgen can render. tango_: Sven_vB: interesting, but the vertical size is still clamped Sven_vB: tango_, not a problem for me or my target audience. they're interested in building near-surface stuff. tango_: Sven_vB: and you've already filled the standard 16-bit-wide surface? Sven_vB: we might be greedy but we're smart enough not to dig too deep. ;) Krock: you're busy for a week to dig down that far unless you've got mod assistance Sven_vB: tango_, no. the building won't even start due to the fear of sunk cost. Sven_vB: it's hard enough as is, to convince people to even install and try minetest, rather than minceraft. tango_: Sven_vB: so you think you can saturate 1 billion squares? Sven_vB: no. it's not the ppint to actually do it. it's about psychology. tango_: Sven_vB: ah, the better being an enemy of the good Sven_vB: yes Sven_vB: or rather just the fear that the world limit might someday interfere with their building tango_: I must say that I've been curious by the possibilities that would be open by MT switching to openvdb and foregoing many of the current limits myself Krock: inb4 300m side length buildings all across the map tango_: Sven_vB: I can guarantee they'll get bored long before that Krock: to properly use the current map you'll need a few gigabytes of storage Krock: and a tremendous amount of time tango_: even in creative mode and with tools to amplify yout construction speed Sven_vB: initially when I learned about voxel world games, I was drawn by the fascination of infinitely generated worlds to explore. I know now that it was a lie even for MC, but it's what inspires people. rubenwardy: #8660 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8660 -- Increase world dimension Sven_vB: tango_, won't convince them to try MT though. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove dead code (#10845) 134c76239 https://git.io/Jt3Bc (152021-01-22T15:09:26Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Use JSON for favorites, move server list code to Lua (#10085) 1367aa75d https://git.io/Jt3BC (152021-01-22T15:08:57Z) Sven_vB: most people who buy sports cars don't race them very often either. lots of humans aren't logical. :) Sven_vB: an improvement to mirror-repeating the mapgenable area could be fade to ocean, then fade to a mapgen area with a new_seed = old_seed .. .. ( Sven_vB: sorry sent too early Sven_vB: new_seed = sprintf('%s%+d%+d', old_seed, floor(x / mapgen_limit), floor(z / mapgen_limit)) Sven_vB: or round? not sure. anyway my idea was to have a layout like [ [ seed-1-1 , seed+0-1 , seed+1-1 ], [ seed-1+0 , seed , seed+1+0 ], [ seed-1+1 , seed+0+1 , seed+1+1 ] ] Sven_vB: that way the center area would be compatible with old worlds Zughy[m]1: Heyo. I wanted to save in the mod database a player's inventory but it crashes saying that Zughy[m]1: minetest.serialize(player:get_inventory():get_lists()) can't serialize data of type userdata. Any suggestions? sfan5: to_table Zughy[m]1: thanks Sven_vB: if I were to extend my server's mapgen to render worlds beyond x/z +/- 31k, would the network protocol and default client be able to play on that? Krock: Sven_vB: no. it would cause several overflow issues and severely confuse the client Sven_vB: :( Zughy[m]1: I can't understand how to make to_table work with players' inventories. The only examples I can find in the API are with node inventories, where they work with the metadata of the node sfan5: okay inventories don't have to_table sfan5: you have to manually iterate lists and call to_table() on each stack Krock: to to_string Krock: *or Krock: example: https://github.com/SmallJoker/upgrade_packs/blob/master/api.lua#L27 Krock: implemented so that there's no additional inventory lists remaining if the mod is disabled Zughy[m]1: ouchie. But ok, good to know, thank you both Krock: because users would have unrestricted access to that list due to missing callback guards Krock: given they write a CSM to show the formspec Maxi1357: pog Maxi1357: Hello 11J​onathon: hi rubenwardy: hi Maxi1357: hey heavygale: hi Maxi1357: How's everyone doing rubenwardy: good thanks , you? Maxi1357: I'm feeling pretty good too 09w​war: too? He said 'good' only not "pretty good" :P 06F​lamore: Cringe kinda celeron55: Sven_vB: any examples of such accessibility tools? Sven_vB: celeron55, I'd like text-to-speech for chat and formspecs. also I'd like to relay chat messages that I type on another computer. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: ObjectRef: fix some v3f checks (#10602) 13ea5d631 https://git.io/JtOTK (152021-01-21T17:37:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Removed some obsolete code (#10562) 1345ccfe2 https://git.io/JtOtv (152021-01-21T18:17:09Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Load system-wide texture packs too (#10791) 138ff209c https://git.io/JtOYe (152021-01-21T19:01:37Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: MgOre: Fix invalid field polymorphism (#10846) 134fcd000 https://git.io/JtOYu (152021-01-21T19:08:06Z) Sven_vB: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10827 can be closed. I tried, but the website refused. rubenwardy: okie MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: if possible, plz try to fix ctf, because im Losing Users on the crash specing: MiniontobyPI: oh no, you are losing users *cry* rubenwardy: I don't maintain CTF anymore FelixActually: I don't know why, but movement in Minetest feels... a little off. Does anyone know? 06F​lamore: the physics are off FelixActually: Is that something planned to be fixed? specing: FelixActually: you mean it should take one hour to mine a 1 m^3 of rock? FelixActually: I mean walking movement 06F​lamore: that's prolly not going to be fixed FelixActually: How come? rubenwardy: Movement is heavily subjective FelixActually: Maybe it is just me, I don't know FelixActually: Is there a Minetest IRC room which isn't connected to Discord via bridge? 06F​lamore: i don't think so sfan5: currently the three main channels all have a bridge specing: I'd also prefer a room not connected to discord 13V​ili: Why? specing: Because I do not agree with discord ToS FelixActually: Well, here then: #minetest-nd :) 08a​ppguru: specing: well, this chat is logged anyways and publicly - your messages are publicly available to any scraper specing: I know, but they aren't owned by any scraper specing: discord owns your messages 08a​ppguru: "owns"? specing: Yes FelixActually: specing: Join the room I just made if you'd like to 08a​ppguru: Discord hosts my messages 08a​ppguru: It doesn't "own" them 08a​ppguru: specing: you mean this? 08a​ppguru: "you grant to us a perpetual, nonexclusive, transferable, royalty-free, sublicensable, and worldwide license to use, host, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, and display Your Content" sfan5: they likely do 08a​ppguru: they don't exactly own them though specing: I think so appguru, it has been a while since I looked into discord's ToS 08a​ppguru: they just get a pretty permissive license sfan5: the thing is if the public log had terms they'd look exactly like that 08a​ppguru: yeah 08a​ppguru: at least the license granted is nonexclusive sfan5: because in theory I too need confirmation that I may host a copy of whatever is written here specing: Probably not adapt and modify *shrug* 08a​ppguru: that's probably covered by the Freenode ToS tho? sfan5: I guess daiNoZord: Im still having trouble with the irc mod- secure.trusted isn't allowed so was ignored & undefined symbol "gettop". Does anybody have any ideas? sfan5: is luajit enabled in mt? freshreplicant[m: The unofficial Matrix/Element room is not linked to Discord, I believe. Not quite IRC, but FOSS I guess. daiNoZord: how to enable it? sfan5: I'm not saying enabling will make it work, knowing if it's enabled would help troubleshooting rubenwardy: The bridge should allow IRC users to opt out daiNoZord: im not sure - is there a setting in the gui? sfan5: that's not a runtime setting, it depends on how your MT was built daiNoZord: ah I built following the instructions with the source so I think so... sfan5: unfortunately there's no portable and easy way to determine it sfan5: since you seem to be on linux run ldd bin/minetestserver and see if libluajit-5.1.so (or similar) appears in the output daiNoZord: ah- it doesn't seem to be on the list. I'' try rebuilding then - thankyou sfan5: if you do that you also need to make sure to install luasocket and stuff specifically for luajit not lua daiNoZord: hey hey! working now - thanks sfan5 daiNoZord: Can multiple entities be applied to a single node? I guess so.. hopefully I'm right in where I'm going with this... sfan5: entities have no relation to nodes daiNoZord: they can be attached? Krock: no Krock: nodes don't move so attaching is pointless daiNoZord: shooter seemed to have an entity attached, or otherwise pinned/related to a node daiNoZord: turret sfan5: the engine doesn't provide means to do this sfan5: mods can obviously make an entity act as if it was "one" with a node on their own daiNoZord: ok, but if a mod can "attach" one entity to a node, can more than one be attached? daiNoZord: ah maybe i just place one y+1 and one y-1 sfan5: you can have as many as you want at whatever positions you want daiNoZord: I'll give it a try :) daiNoZord: so boat has no node? I cant remember - that blasts my idea out of "the water" al little bit tho. Thought nautilus was a node/entity partnership too. Got some reading to do! daiNoZord: Ah boat is an entity - Prob wrong about the other one too then daiNoZord: entity/object/node...this game needs its own section in the dictionary (lol) daiNoZord: ok - i could add an entity to boat then? daiNoZord: for example daiNoZord: or to create a seperate behaviour, add to the existing entity? Think I got it... daiNoZord: Sounds simple but I over-complicate things in my head Krock: you can make an entity that looks like a node Krock: and attach that Krock: !mod air ship MinetestBot: Krock: Small airship vehicle [airboat] by paramat - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20485 - https://github.com/paramat/airboat Krock: not that Krock: there's a mod that replaces nodes with entities and allows you to build an air balloon or so daiNoZord: air ship sounds fun - but I think for what I need the entity is already there so i think changing the model and adding an arrow function to that entity would do what I want it to - for some reason I thought these things were attached to nodes Sven_vB: hi :) Sven_vB: do we have a TCP mode in MineTest? Sven_vB: or any kind of stream-based networking that I could easily sslify? Krock: TCP only exists for media download from a remote server Krock: an issue about traffic encryption already exists, but yet no progress there sfan5: which usecase are you trying to solve? Sven_vB: eventually, an HTML5 client, and (separate feature) allow TOR users connect to my server. Krock: see you in 20 years * Krock: hides Sven_vB: both would be easier if I could hook up some standard stream-based proxy stuff to MT daiNoZord: How was Minetest "born"? I know it's roughly the same age as a certain other voxel game - and that plenty others have followed... and I know that some sections of the community (not me!) would lke to see this as a "clone" of another game, but how did it start? daiNoZord: Just curious Krock: started in 2011 and c55 cannot tell the exact point where it started Sven_vB: I could probably make a UDP-to-TCP proxy on one side, and another on the other side, ideally stripping those header parts that deal with session handling rubenwardy: lol daiNoZord: Haha yes I think I remember a conversation about that Krock: daiNoZord: see non-English wikipedia articles. they generally explain the history quite well Sven_vB: daiNoZord, I think InfiniMiner is the common ancestor Krock: or wiki.minetest.net perhaps rubenwardy: daiNoZord: 2010-10-10 is the celebrated birthday, and it was a project by celeron55 to show off rubenwardy: leet skillz daiNoZord: @krock I think i remember a conversation about that too Krock: daiNoZord: perhaps you asked this previously but forgot the answers? daiNoZord: @Sven_vB Infiniminer precedes the two? I'll have to look into that. @Rubenwardy Most mods ive seen seem to be circa 2011 so that's gotta be right @Krock I haven't asked b4 - I've just seen what others have discussed. Always been curious tho rubenwardy: Mod support was only realised in 2012 Krock: why are you @-ing me? this ain't twitter or discord daiNoZord: dunno. newbie me rubenwardy: Minecraft predates Minetest. Remember that it was released in alpha first Sven_vB: Krock, @ in IRC was around long before Twitter daiNoZord: never played minetest Krock: Sven_vB: as a operator role, yes. Sven_vB: @Krock, I've also seen it used as addressing, back in the days. Sven_vB: well usually with a space in between thoughl @ Krock daiNoZord: it was a way for me to direct comments without hitting enter repeatedly.... Krock: I guess then it's up to your IRC client to offer nice autocompletion using that style. I couldn't be bothered typing out names Krock: (EOF offtopic) daiNoZord: Personally I use Hexchat - and I'm still figuring it out. IRC can never be off-topic in an IRC channel, can it? "How do I use this service..?" - "Sorry, off-topic.." - .. daiNoZord: I just realised - I dont use Twitter or Discord either.... Don't know how! Too much hassle to figure out....... got lua stuff to learn........ Ha :) daiNoZord: *meant never played minecraft - not minetest! Then I'd really be in the wrong place.. daiNoZord: ok, ok - so I dont "@" anybody again - without "/msg"-ing somebody, how do u send a message to get there attention? like "user:" or"" ..? daiNoZord: *their not there b4 I get told off for that too Hawk777: In my experience any mention of someone’s username, with or without @ prefix, pings them, but it’s fairly rare to do so in IRC compared to other platforms. Hawk777: Normally if there’s an ongoing conversation the people involved check the channel somewhat frequently anyway so no need to ping, and if there isn’t an ongoing conversation, people usually just speak to the channel as a whole without pinging anyone and wait for a reply. daiNoZord: Thanks Hawk777 - I think the mobile app I barely use has notifications when my name is used but i noticed ppl speaking to me just now - their text was a different colour - like yours is white but theirs was green. must have directed a message somehow Hawk777: Maybe it just uses a different colour for each person? My client does that for names but not message content, but maybe some do it for the whole line. Hawk777: For comparison, daiNoZord, this line should ping you in whatever way your client does so, because I mentioned your name. daiNoZord: 3 ppl start their communications to me in different ways but their text is bright green - instead of white. Obvs if I ask a question or a subject piques my interest then I'm here as much as possible - but it is interesting how that's done daiNoZord: Hmm.. I could 7hiya! daiNoZord: but i dont think thats it at all daiNoZord: Hawk777 how did u do that? daiNoZord: Hawk777 how did u do that? daiNoZord: did that work? Hawk777: The lines where you said “how did u do that?” pinged me. Hawk777: The line where you said “hiya!” had a different colour of text but didn’t ping me. rubenwardy: It's classic IRC to derail a conversation due to "ettiqute" rubenwardy: err, not meaning to accuse anyone of anything daiNoZord: ok cool - yes i know that wont thats a different thing but u turned my text green simply by putting my name in he text? daiNoZord: huh? rubenwardy: Yeah, IRC mentions people by literally typing their name rubenwardy: is the basic thing daiNoZord: ah - every day is a school day Hawk777: Also doesn’t have to be at the start of the message; the line where you said “Thanks Hawk777” also pinged me. rubenwardy: I guess it's not actually an IRC feature but an IRC convention due to not having a mention feature. It results in some ambiguities rubenwardy: like, you don't want to be named a common word daiNoZord: Aye brilliant! It's good to know :) If I stop learning I'll have nothing else to do.. daiNoZord: “I choose to learn lua in this context and to try to write my own mods, not because this is easy, but because it is hard, because this goal will serve to organize and measure the best of my energies and skills, because this challenge is one that I am willing to accept, because I cannot afford counselling, and because the results can be fun, too.” 09w​war: No one has something else to do other than learning 09w​war: Even when u waste time u learn new stuff daiNoZord: wwar too true daiNoZord: I know I stole a quote but it almost sounds like a modders oath! daiNoZord: I might print that off and place it above my monitor, actually... 04o​neplustwo: modding is for fun? daiNoZord: when it works... 09w​war: Heheh 09w​war: Thats why i never do it :p 04o​neplustwo: i thought modding was for fame, power, and a "Contributor" role daiNoZord: haha daiNoZord: think u need a pretty cool mod for that lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix Android support in bump_version.sh (#10836) 136693a4b https://git.io/Jtm17 (152021-01-20T20:37:24Z) Sven_vB: maintainers, what's your opinion on an LD_PRELOAD based approach to hooking accessibility tools onto MT? I could add a small library that has just a few stub functions, which we'd load dynamically and call them at important moments with some useful data. this way we have a very small API surface with a good probability to be stable accross versions. LD_PRELOAD could then be used to override those stub functions to e.g. modify Sven_vB: toClientCommandTable. Sven_vB: later we could consider adding our own mechanisms to load dynamic libraries on user request, to make that mechanism available on Windows, too. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Local tab: rename 'Configure' to 'Select Mods' (#10779) 13eb8af61 https://git.io/Jtm7r (152021-01-20T22:32:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04srifqi -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: Update Gradle, NDK, Build Tools, and SQLite version (#10833) 13cc44943 https://git.io/Jtm7o (152021-01-20T22:31:59Z) Anderssen: Hi; does anyone know whether there is a minetest map of the White House? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow "liquid" and "flowingliquid" drawtypes even if liquidtype=none … 137f25823 https://git.io/JtmFD (152021-01-20T23:51:24Z) 08a​ppguru: finally custom finite liquid simulation in Lua MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve --version output to include Lua(JIT) version 13d92da47 https://git.io/JtmF9 (152021-01-20T23:52:31Z) Sven_vB: do we really need the src/network/networkpacket.h:22 -> dependency src/util/pointer.h:22 -> irrTypes.h? i.e. do I really need to install irrlicht just to compile a packet parser? Sven_vB: ("dependency" should have been at the end) daiNoZord: Is there a way to have an area restore periodically? Originally I was thinking about tree damage in a combat zone but I think a better example is a collapsing bridge - should be there again 10 mins later for the player (or another player) to try again rubenwardy: Sven_vB: see why it is needed rubenwardy: It's probably just fixed size integers and positions rubenwardy: It's super easy to make your own version of that 05/​g/: Hope you guys over on IRC like what you see 05/​g/: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/800989761539276840/Screenshot_at_2021-01-19_02-04-32.png IvanGorinich: Hello all! I buy OrangePI PC and go to host MT server on it! 03Z​ander_200: cool 03P​iMonkey: have the Orange Pi's gotten better? i remember looking at those when the Raspberry Pi 2 was released and the Orange Pi's were awful Guest0: Is there an 'sfan5' here to take my report? sfan5: yes sfan5: you an just PM me sfan5: can* Guest0: How do I pm you? I'm not on a real irc client, just a webpage, because I didn't want to install software for something I don't use. Guest0: Perhaps you can pm me? Sven_vB: Guest0, try /query nickname MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: can you help MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=387948#p387948 <- your ctf game, i need help rubenwardy: We have that crash too, no idea why it happens rubenwardy: There's a bug report on the Minetest engine rubenwardy: Sounds like you've managed to reproduce it reliably though? Which map? MiniontobyPI: Idk MiniontobyPI: but its an very new minetest version MiniontobyPI: which i builed MiniontobyPI: Idk which map but i can look at irc logs MiniontobyPI: i cant see the leave but ik its there MiniontobyPI: Team blue won! MiniontobyPI: Next round! MiniontobyPI: Next round! MiniontobyPI: Map: Tunnel MiniontobyPI: there is no map MiniontobyPI: but it worked some times MiniontobyPI: Minetest 5.4.0-dev-6d7067fd3-dirty (BSD) MiniontobyPI: BUILD_TYPE=Release MiniontobyPI: RUN_IN_PLACE=1 MiniontobyPI: USE_GETTEXT=0 MiniontobyPI: USE_SOUND=0 MiniontobyPI: USE_CURL=1 MiniontobyPI: USE_FREETYPE=1 MiniontobyPI: USE_LUAJIT=1 MiniontobyPI: STATIC_SHAREDIR="." MiniontobyPI: I think it might be that the 5.4 is instable MiniontobyPI: what you think rubenwardy rubenwardy: This happens on 5.3 and previous versions too rubenwardy: CTF won't work without a map MiniontobyPI: btw it will be simple to detect the maps, there are just a few, becuase its an custom game and removed some maps MiniontobyPI: The owner is wanting his own maps MiniontobyPI: but yeah to keep play able i let it stay for now MiniontobyPI: 2021-01-15 17:05:44: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: on_emerge_area_completion: Runtime error from mod 'ctf_flag' in callback on_emerge_area_completion(> MiniontobyPI: 2021-01-15 17:05:44: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: MiniontobyPI: 2021-01-15 17:05:44: ERROR[Main]: [C]: in function 'place_schematic' MiniontobyPI: 2021-01-15 17:05:44: ERROR[Main]: ...lag_MineWars/mods/ctf/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/schem_map.lua:335: in function 'callback' MiniontobyPI: 2021-01-15 17:05:44: ERROR[Main]: ...heflag_MineWars/mods/ctf/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/emerge.lua:16: in function <...heflag_MineWars/mods/ctf/ctf_map/ctf> MiniontobyPI: 2021-01-15 17:05:44: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: MiniontobyPI: hmm yeah MiniontobyPI: ctf_map MiniontobyPI: right MiniontobyPI: hmm MiniontobyPI: btw MiniontobyPI: rubenwardy: MiniontobyPI: 2021-01-19 09:25:41: WARNING[Server]: Deprecated call to set_sky, please check lua_api.txt (at ..._MineWars/mods/ctf/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/meta_helpers.lua:5> sfan5: !kick MiniontobyPI use a pastebin MiniontobyPI: https://termbin.com/ju4x MiniontobyPI: sorry sfan5 KINGOWAIN_YT: hi the CTF mod (capturetheflag) is not working for some reason the mod is not working rubenwardy i got the mod from ContentDB SwissalpS: what exactly is not working about it? KINGOWAIN_YT: it won't load it 06F​lamore: That's a load of information. Logs? KINGOWAIN_YT: mod error ctf_core/sceams 04o​neplustwo: sceams? KINGOWAIN_YT: ModError: Failed to load and run script from /home/owain/snap/minetest/1619/.minetest/mods/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/init.lua: KINGOWAIN_YT: ...t/1619/.minetest/mods/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/schem_map.lua:1: singlenode mapgen is required. KINGOWAIN_YT: stack traceback: KINGOWAIN_YT: [C]: in function 'assert' KINGOWAIN_YT: ...t/1619/.minetest/mods/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/schem_map.lua:1: in main chunk KINGOWAIN_YT: [C]: in function 'dofile' KINGOWAIN_YT: ...netest/1619/.minetest/mods/ctf_map/ctf_map_core/init.lua:38: in main chunk KINGOWAIN_YT: Check debug.txt for details. 06F​lamore: Could you please put the whole error into pastebin? rubenwardy: Read the error message rubenwardy: "singlenode mapgen is required." rubenwardy: You need to create the world with a singlenode mapgen 06F​lamore: It says you should use singlenode mapgen 06F​lamore: Good grief. KINGOWAIN_YT: how do i get singlenode mapgen rubenwardy: You need to create the world with a singlenode mapgen rubenwardy: it's an option in the dialog rubenwardy: if you don't have a GUI, then you'll need to edit world.mt KINGOWAIN_YT: found it rubenwardy: oops, actually map_meta.txt KINGOWAIN_YT: thans KINGOWAIN_YT: thanks rubenwardy: mg_name = singlenode KINGOWAIN_YT: got it im in the game all by my self so it worked MinetestBot: 02[git] 04mk-pmb -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix double word "true" in minetest.is_nan explanation (#10820) 13e86c93f https://git.io/JtImU (152021-01-18T00:45:32Z) Sven_vB: hi :) Guest12510: Hi Guest12510: :0 Guest12510: :) Sven_vB: what's the reasoning to disable CSM? are there really any OreMiner users that are unable to fork and compile? increasing the cost of "cheating" by an hour of spare time, to me seems a very small gain compared to the collateral damage. Tim86: Idk. Sven_vB: or OreFinder or what it's called Tim86: Im kinda new to minetest. 09w​war: CSM can give unfair advantage to the player who uses them afaik. Example: Usually who has the colored chat CSM can use fly and fast. Tim86: So I downloaded colour chat CSM, and I enabled CSM settings, but I tried .help, and the command wasn't there. Is there any way I can fix that? Tim86: Sorry if Im asking a dum question. Tim86: Oh.. ok Tim86: I guess that explains why it's only for admins and moderators. Sven_vB: oh, is movement ability not verified by the server? rubenwardy: the verification is limited - the speed is checked, but that's about it rubenwardy: you can fly and noclip with client-side modifications fairly trivially Tim86: Why do people create CSMs where you can fly and noclip without the priv? Or is it just some glitch? rubenwardy: you can't do that using a CSM, you need to modify C++ 09w​war: And usually who knows how to add them to his client knows how to use the cheaty ones 09w​war: It is basicly cheating the game which is not allowed on most servers 09w​war: On Anarchy servers cheated/hacked client are allowed as long as the creator knows what is an anarchy server tango_: so the proper fix to this would be to have more stringent checks server-side? tango_: but I guess the issue here would be doing this without bogging down the client/server exchange 09w​war: If u mean by "fix" that making people not use it is: Making it nit allowed and ban who use them (that is my opinion) tango_: still needs the server to check that all motions are valid 09w​war: Im not sure if there is a mode that checks if a person ia using a CSM tango_: the thing is that it shouldn't matter if the user is using a CSM tango_: the CSM (and the client in general) shouldn't allow things that aren't allowed 09w​war: But not too many people uses them and not all of them use cheats with the and when u will make it not allowed to use then it will be very rare and moderating it wont be hard tango_: in the sense that should be programmatically impossible to achieve 09w​war: The CSM is made outside of the game so it wont learn the server rules 🤣 09w​war: Did you ever see some people who fly, use fast, noclip and +range? That is added with CSMs tango_: I think you're missing what I'm saying tango_: it should be progragmatically impossible for the client to do that tango_: but to do that, the server should check every single motion from each client Sven_vB: tango_, a client can interact any way its user wants. any enforcements need to be on the server. tango_: Sven_vB: that's what I'm saying tango_: the problem is that becomes very expensive for the server Sven_vB: I know 04K​not Abbot: You should check the player's behaviour maybe tango_: so it's not really feasible with the current system Sven_vB: quality usually is more expensive, in any aspect of life. 04K​not Abbot: I've seen it done by MC server admins. Sven_vB: yeah you can log their behavior and verify later on suspicion. Sven_vB: like iRL police should do, in theory. 04K​not Abbot: lol true Sven_vB: of course the logging is done not by police iRL but by physics of our world. 09w​war: I got what you mean @tango_@IRC#0000 09w​war: I guess that is hard or even impossible to do bc a CSM is something made out of the game so even if Minetest doesnt allow they can find 100 ways to trick that code 09w​war: So making it up to the server owner is easier 09w​war: Than making a code to ignore it then making a new one to ignore the new CSMs that can trick the older code... 09w​war: Aswell some servers allows Cheated clients tango_: since csm runs on the client, they can't do things the client can't do tango_: if the server checks all client actions, cheating becomes impossible (modulo server-side bugs, that can be fixed easily) 09w​war: And some CSMs has been worked on for a long time and they are not for cheat Sven_vB: well I for one am making code to unrestrict CSM, which as collateral damage may help cheaters, but it seems to be the easiest way to hook up accessibility tools to the chat. 09w​war: Tango, making something that checks every client requires a code and some proffesional programmers may add some stuff to trick that code and make it cant know if this is a cheated client or not Sven_vB: unfortunately there's no technical way to differentiate between chat and NPC dialoge being controlled by a selfplaying bot, or them being accessed via exotic hardware. 09w​war: And you can add moderators to your server to take actions for CSM(cheated ones) users rubenwardy: You're not checking whether the client is cheated rubenwardy: you're checking whether the actions are cheating rubenwardy: the way to do this would be client-side prediction and server-side reconcilliation 04K​not Abbot: behaviour can trick them >:) Sven_vB: If I'd invest more time in learning about our network protocol, it might turn out I could flip that bit with a simple netfilter rule. rubenwardy: there would require the client to send actions like Forward/Back/Punch to the server, and the server would verify and act them rubenwardy: The client wouldn't be able to send a Fly action to enter flying state Sven_vB: rubenwardy, verifying them in realtime might cause too much delay rubenwardy: To avoid network latency effects, the client would perform predictions - it would apply the action early rubenwardy: Popular games already do this 09w​war: So that will work once a player does something they do not have privellage to do? rubenwardy: If the client tries to fly, the server will notice that the client position doesn't match the given Actions and will tell the client to rollback rubenwardy: The client can ignore this, but the server and other players will still see the client in the previous location tango_: and if the client doesn't rollback they get kicked 09w​war: No kick tango_: (this can be detected by continuing mismatch) rubenwardy: There's no way to really tell tango_: well, sort of 09w​war: Sometimes lag happens and u fly rubenwardy: because the client can just pretend to have followed the rollback 09w​war: I flyed alot on ruben's server XD rubenwardy: Yeah, rollbacks don't necessarily mean bad behaviour tango_: not bad, just mismatched 09w​war: I ws talking about the kick rubenwardy: But even if you can't tell if the client is misbehaving, it doesn't matter because they won't affect other players tango_: if mismatches pile up it would make sense to kick, because either it's cheating or there's some serious network mismatch or other 09w​war: Wont that cause too much lag btw? 09w​war: When we make rollback on the server gets ultimate lag rubenwardy: Popular games already do this 04K​not Abbot: What does matter is if they keep flying for an extended amount of time is what I'm saying. 04K​not Abbot: That can be logged. rubenwardy: Also, there's a PR #6219 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6219 -- Server side movement by bendeutsch 09w​war: > That can be logged. If that is the solution u already can add moderators who can take action and no need to make a bot 04K​not Abbot: ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Bombo: hi Bombo: i installed world edit 1.2, it works ;) i added a pyramid, but how do i get rid of it Bombo: no //undo 11J​onathon: if just the pyramid in the area, set it to air 09w​war: There is a "worldedit_undo" mode afaik 11J​onathon: uh...no, unless your using hybrid_dogs? fork 09w​war: Not sure but i saw it in some diffrent servers in /mods 11J​onathon: https://github.com/HybridDog/we_undo 11J​onathon: https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/issues/43> Bombo: air isa nice trick thx jon ;) Bombo: will try we_undo too 11J​onathon: yeah, most people i know just set stuff to air 11J​onathon: or //replace the node Bombo: https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/blob/master/ChatCommands.md Bombo: i tried //mix stone 3 dirt 2 Bombo: got invalid node name 3 sfan5: works for me Bombo: invalid command brush Bombo: hmm sfan5: install the git version of worldedit, not 1.2 Bombo: that was a git idea ;) Bombo: now it works Bombo: pyramid brush \o/ Bombo: it would help if e.g. pyramid would be created in the center of the region Bombo: not at pos 1 Bombo: tfor faster removal :) Bombo: is it possible to have an air brush? would be handy too i guess ;) Bombo: and what about this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=8552 Bombo: cursor keys Bombo: *ircbump* ;) sfan5: "is it possible to have an air brush?" there is nothing special about air, you can use any brush with air too Bombo: oy nice, got it 04R​AB: Offtopic: dev @rubenwardy @sfan5 or knowledgeable others: Is there a place to report servers that allow pedophiles to 'groom' and sexually solicit underage children? Having servers like this listed on the public Minetest server list demeans from the value of all of Minetest, and is morally wrong, and feloniously criminal. sfan5: yes, talk to us in PM sfan5: (but not now because I'll be going to sleep) cheapie: Sven_vB: In "is my mod even being loaded?" situations like that, the error() function is perhaps the easiest way to find out. If it crashes, it was loaded :P Sven_vB: cheapie, yeah. once I found where to enable the mod, it did crash. :) Sven_vB: cheapie, earlier I couldn't find any feedback - obviously. Sven_vB: I'm still at loss how to enable it in multplayer. cheapie: FWIW, normally I just throw mods in worldmods (in the world dir), seems a lot easier and you don't have to enable anything. Sven_vB: works for singleplayer now. :-) Sven_vB: how do I make it work for multiplayer? ryzenda: So, apparently there are some audio issues with minetest ryzenda: I first noticed a few days ago after leaving the app open for a week, and using it a little bit each day ryzenda: the issue for that though seemed different than my issue just now today ryzenda: that previous issue, was during gameplay, I would hear the sound effects, but not just once, multiple times practically at the same time, almost, and it sounds like glitched audio a little bit, but I closed and reopened the app and audio was fixed, back to normal ryzenda: but just today, now, I was noticing Bitchute videos and then also even locally played audio files using mpv and other audio software, and even the pavucontrol volume adjusting software, they were failing, audio wasn't playing, mpv was showing audio device underruns ryzenda: but then I realized to close minetest and see if the problem persists, and everything is fine now, I can play audio without interruption ryzenda: so, apparently, running minetest in the background, just idling, not using it, somehow over time, the audio resources become unavailable for other software to use Sven_vB: in a client-side mod, how do I detect the $user_path? I'd like to have a default path where to save my chatlogs. kevr: read $HOME kevr: or %HOME% (i think, on windows?) Sven_vB: how do I read env vars with CSM LUA? Sven_vB: ph wow there's actually os.getenv in default LUA Sven_vB: nevermind Sven_vB: of course it would be nicer if MineTest would just share the authoritative information it has, rather than me trying to guess it. but reading the CSM forum, I get the impression CSM API is low priority. ryzenda: In my minetest app, I no longer see the default "Minetest game" game in the icons at the bottom. How can I make it appear again? ryzenda: I'm using archlinux environment ryzenda: If I rename ~/.minetest and create a new session, then I see it again. ryzenda: nevermind, I figured it out ryzenda: Also I see https://content.minetest.net/packages/siegment/loria/ "ModError: Failed to load and run script. // ~/.minetest/games/loria/mods/electricity/init.lua:3: Electricity mod requires access to insecure functions in order to work. Please add the electricity mod to your secure.trusted_mods. Insecure functions provide native (fast) complex numbers and arrays, which are necessary for MNA solver used in electricity mod. Biggvs_Richardvs: Hi all Sven_vB: kevr, when I run the tests with /usr/bin/lua, os.getenv works as expected. but inside my CSM, os.getenv is nil. ryzenda: ah, it's mentioned here also https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25095&hilit=loria Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine  - got a sever crash with mg_villages running with Ethereal and df_caverns.  May not be an issue with mg_villages, but that's the first thing in the error messages / stack trace Biggvs_Richardvs: here's the output: Biggvs_Richardvs: https://justpaste.it/7age8 Biggvs_Richardvs: Love the mod btw. Just wanted to toss this out there, hoping htere might be a quick fix.  Happy to volunteer my server for debugging ryzenda: Actually, I'm not sure that I figured it out. I see this in console now: ryzenda: "Game specified in default_game [minetest] is invalid." ryzenda: but again, if I rename ~/.minetest to create a new session, then it appears tango_: oh wow this is a wonderful idea that minetest would immensely benefit from tango_: https://twitter.com/KenneyNL/status/1350788503567740930 rubenwardy: It's cool rubenwardy: Minetest already has that with fixed depth, for variable depth it would be better to export to a 3d model format imo celeron55: eh, MT has an actual 3d world that you could design non-2.5D models in tango_: rubenwardy: of course for sophisticated models an actual 3D model is better, but for simpler stuff I love that representation a lot tango_: celeron55: of course that wouldn't be for the world itself, I'm thinking more of the wielded objects tango_: (e.g. tools) celeron55: in principle nothing prevents that either celeron55: and it's what i meant tango_: celeron55: then I'm afraid I don't get what you mean celeron55: just make a model editor "game" and add some APIs and formats to the engine if needed celeron55: done, and no need for 2.5D restrictions tango_: celeron55: oh I think I seee what you mean. you mean using MT itself as a pixelish 3D model editor tango_: well voxelish 06F​lamore: Nodebox-elish because voxel formats aren't supported :D tango_: 8-D tango_: I wasn't even aware voxel file formats existed ryzenda: Strange! When I search the wiki for "place_schematic" there are no results. https://dev.minetest.net/index.php?search=place_schematic&title=Special%3ASearch ryzenda: I expected to find https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.place_schematic ryzenda: comparing to https://dev.minetest.net/item_drop I can find that searching for "item_drop" ryzenda: maybe because the url naming is different? Sven_vB: I guess the search doesn't work for word parts preceeded by a dot cheapie: ryzenda: It's usually a lot easier to find these things in here anyway: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minetest/master/doc/lua_api.txt imi: hi is there a world generation which only generates air blocks? Emerald2: singlenode mapgen imi: ok thanks :) imi: can any config variable which is usually written in minetest.conf be written into world.mt ? imi: or maybe even all of them? Andrey01: hello Andrey01: does 'label[]' element have 'name' parameter? If no, then how can I apply to it styling, e.g. set a font? Andrey01: I mean set an individual style to certain element, not to any elements with that type as 'style_type[]' does Andrey01: i.e. I need to use 'style[]' in this case dalz: Andrey01: I don't know if this is the proper way, but you could do for example `style_type[label;textcolor=red] label[...] style_type[label;textcolor=white]` Andrey01: dalz: ok, thanks, I`ll try unixbsd: hi guys unixbsd: how to compile Minetest on Framebuffer of /dev/fb0 (linux retropie), no GL, but just GLES and sdl 1.2 celeron55: unixbsd: the build system isn't set up for that, maybe look up some hints from the android build sfan5: does irrlicht even have fbdev support? sfan5: either way -DENABLE_GLES=1 is what you'll definitely need galex-713: hello galex-713: minetests is finally quick enough to run on my computer galex-713: it wasn’t since the arrival of lua galex-713: but I have a question about gameplay… galex-713: how is one supposed to learn the recipes? galex-713: voxelands and minecraft had in-game aid that said what could be built with what imi: you can search for recipes using the unified inventory mod galex-713: can you download mods from the game? or must one use a browser to do that? imi: you can galex-713: how? 09w​war: In content section on main menu if you are asking for that imi: most probably he's asking for that. main menu, content tab, browse online content 09w​war: You can download mods, texture packs and games galex-713: I don’t see a content tab :o 09w​war: What version are you using? galex-713: 0.4.17.1 galex-713: debian version 09w​war: An android/IOS version? 09w​war: If yes there is no content section 09w​war: Not sure about the Linux/windows versions galex-713: I don’t think debian would take anything from a proprietary OS version galex-713: debian is gnu/linux galex-713: commonly desktop imi: galex-713: the most up-to-date version is 5.3.0 maybe try that 09w​war: Im not sure about desktops, but on phones versions you need minetest 5.0+ to have a 'content' section galex-713: 5? not 0.5? have versions gone so up recently? 09w​war: 5.3 is the newest version and we got a 5.4dev galex-713: I’m too lazy to recompile everything now… well thank you anyway, you were nice 09w​war: No problem, people here were nice with me when i asked for help so i wanted to do same :D galex-713: oh wait no galex-713: 5.3 *is* packaged for debian stable, as a backport 09w​war: Im not sure about the 'debian' galex-713: ? 09w​war: The gun/linux ur using i mean galex-713: you mean its version of minetest? galex-713: or what would be the problem? galex-713: oh and debian packages a bunch of mods, I didn’t notice :o 09w​war: 5.3 is the latest version for now if you dont count 5.4dev 09w​war: That what i know but i can't say anything ahout the devise you are using because i dont know imi: 5.3 is a version of minetest. it's the most recent galex-713: yeah I got that 09w​war: It is a version yes but i said it is the one before 5.4-dev imi: how stable is 5.4-dev? I wouldn't advise it to just about anyone the same ways I advise 5.3.0 galex-713: anyway I’ll stay into what is distributed by my distribution, so the question is not very important to me 09w​war: I already meant the same but said it with a diffrent way galex-713: I’ll get 5.4 if one day it’s packaged and I still play that day imi: good. then most probably you can just apt install minetest and you're good to go Calinou: you can use the Flatpak to get an up-to-date version Calinou: https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.minetest.Minetest Calinou: you can also build Minetest from source, which is fairly easy galex-713: flatpak circumvent dynamical linking and hence is horribly heavy :/ I don’t have enough disk space to use that galex-713: yeah I know it’s easy, I’m just lazy x) galex-713: it’s purely psychological and irrationnal heh, it’s just because I’m more used to autotools than cmake, and because I know it will take time anyway Calinou: a Flatpak installation may use less space than the development setup required to build Minetest from source imi: so you'll build your own version then? imi: Calinou: unless you build everything else from the source as well (and/or you're a cpp developer anyways), because in that case the build environment is not an overhead to be counted towards your minetest installation imi: gentoo rulez imi: also lfs rulez even more Calinou: of course, I was implying that you only installed a toolchain to build Minetest and didn't remove it afterwards (like most people I know) galex-713: imi: lfs :) galex-713: Calinou: I have the full toolchain anyway and since it’s shared about so many things it’s not an overhead imi: oce I broke my leg, I had time to "install" lfs galex-713: that’s why yes compiling wouldn’t be so a hassle to me, just lazy x) (but yeah to some it might be, indeed, I forgot about that) galex-713: lol galex-713: that’s cool imi: I'm ok having a toolchain around, that way I'm able to recompile stuff if it gets broken imi: also I'm a cpp developer galex-713: I’ve a question about minetest galex-713: are mods/plugin/whatever kind of extensions necessarily in lua? galex-713: could that be C++/C? galex-713: and also are mods necessarily programmed in lua then? (this is potentially a second question actually :o) 08a​ppguru: Yes galex-713: oh ok galex-713: is a mob necessarily an overhead? galex-713: or is it like not running once the game is loaded, like it just connect stuff together so then the engine takes care of it? galex-713: also, are there efforts of network-compatibility between minetest and minecraft? 04K​not Abbot: I highly doubt that, as you now require a Microsoft account in order to play Minecraft. 08a​ppguru: https://github.com/luapower looks nice Krock: lmao network compatibility Krock: as if a single application's network isn't already complicated enough rubenwardy: !mod craftguide MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Crafting Guide [craftguide] by jp - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14088 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide rubenwardy: galex-713: lighter alternative to unified inventory rubenwardy: !mod i3 MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Invalid search term length: 1 < len < 40 rubenwardy: !mod [i3] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( Krock: uuh. 2 is larger than 1 Krock: weird Krock: !mod i3 MinetestBot: json.decoder.JSONDecodeError: Expecting value: line 1 column 1 (char 0) (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/json/decoder.py", line 357, in raw_decode) Krock: wat Krock: !mod i3 MinetestBot: Krock: There are no results for this query :( Krock: now I need to update the mod indexer to accept mods with the name length 2 Krock: Is there a forum post, rubenwardy? I cannot find anything rubenwardy: Apparently not Krock: the indexer did not find it either (no mod name length limits there) Krock: CDB is a better way to publish mods so it's probably intended as-is Sven_vB: really is an account required now? I thought Minceraft servers could still be configured to not require authentification via MS account. 04K​not Abbot: Idk about that one. rubenwardy: trivial bug fix: https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest/commit/5e6df0e7be46afe1dbdf6406e1109a8676a22092 rubenwardy: reason: this stops CDB from updating mods which have author/name set, but weren't installed from ContentDB rubenwardy: oops, wrong channel galex-713: rubenwardy: oh thank you! Sven_vB: I'd like to quit the main menu with C-q and C-w, can I add those as a LUA mod? 04o​neplustwo: don't think so, lua mods can't affect the main menu Krock: no and no Krock: THIS HERE IS LUA BY THE WAY: https://github.com/mniip/LUA 04o​neplustwo: wait, so we've been using fake LUA all this time? Krock: WHENEVER THEY NEED LUA Krock: jokes aside, that version is not compatible with Minetest 04o​neplustwo: you should have said, "Always has been." or something. Krock: that meme is dead since december 04o​neplustwo: ideas don't die MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentDB: Ignore content not installed from ContentDB 135e6df0e https://git.io/JtTjX (152021-01-16T17:51:49Z) Bombo: hey Bombo: i notice a slight rasterizing effect while moving Bombo: on 5.3.0 (android) Bombo: in my linux pc too Bombo: hmmm like there are frames missing between two cam positions/movement sfan5: can you be more specific what a "rasterizing effect" is? Bombo: i dont know hehe it's not smooth while i move the mouse Bombo: or move the finger Bombo: like there are frames missing Bombo: hmm Bombo: i have that in borderlands 2 06F​lamore: You mean screen tearing? Bombo: no tearing Krock: and not just low FPS? Krock: if you need smooth viewing angle transitions, check the F8 (I believe) cinematic mode Bombo: 30fps on the tablet Bombo: 60fps on pc Bombo: nothing happens with f8 Bombo: it's like i see the frames while moving if that makes sense ;) Bombo: maybe it's just the mouse or finger on touchpad that isn't smooth Bombo: its subtle 06F​lamore: Try some other mouse? Or chunk loading might be causing the lags tbh Calinou: frame pacing issues? Bombo: it's not lags Bombo: Calinou: what's that Bombo: it's like that on my notebook too Calinou: frame pacing issues is when you have inconsistent frame times Calinou: (like, one frame takes 16 ms to render, another takes 33 ms, then the next one takes 16 ms again) Bombo: with a different mouse Calinou: that said, frame pacing is pretty good for me with Minetest Calinou: I have a high-end PC but still Bombo: not sure if it's that 06F​lamore: Lag spikes in short right? Calinou: kind of, although "lag spike" is very generic and can mean very different things depending on context kevr: Bombo: can you make a recording of it, perhaps? Bombo: kevr: i'll try that tomorrow Bombo: is it possible to trigger the camera view with the keyboard? Bombo: like turn right/left Bombo: (not strafe with a d) Bombo: maybe it's the mouse resolution or finger ;) hmm kevr: Bombo: which gpu do you have on your linux system? * kevr: uses Linux and does not experience that issue at all on 5.3.0 * kevr: uses an NVIDIA 1070 SC with the proprietary driver kevr: Calinou: if you're running your own server, you might want to tweak the server loading rates and caps Calinou: I know, I did that at some point Calinou: the defaults are tailored to low-end machines Calinou: (as in a lot of software out there, really) kevr: yeah, i never experienced any stutter with the defaults, however... kevr: i'm also running a server on gigabit LAN, so it's not a fair comparison kevr: if the server has a subpar connection, could be a cause kevr: (or client) Sven_vB: In the default client with default config, in the main menu, what's the key combo to quit the game? Sven_vB: v5.3.0 04K​not Abbot: ESC? Sven_vB: oh! indeed. thanks! 04K​not Abbot: np lul Sven_vB: I tried that earlier. must have been some kind of keyboard malfunction. nephele: Hey, I was wondering if there is a way to have friction applied to physics entites, currently for some entites i have this call: entity:set_acceleration({x=0, y= -0.8, z=0}), but it only makes them fall down, and keep the directional velocity they have nephele: setting x or y to a negative value will make them accelerate in those respective directions, not slow them down in general nephele: (well, until it hits an object, then it stops) Sven_vB: with directional velocity, do you mean horizontal movement? Sven_vB: if so, it sounds like a bug. setting their x and z velocity to 0 should stop them. maybe try a very small non-zero value to check if those params work at all? nephele: I am not setting their velocity, i am setting their acceleration Sven_vB: right, sorry. I meant acceleration, too. nephele: If i set the velocity to say 3 3 3, and the acceleration to -1 -1 -1 the items will speed off in the opposite direction after some time nephele: it won't slow down to 0 nephele: setting the acceleration to 0 -0.8 0 simulates "slow" gravity Sven_vB: oooh I see. if you don't accelerate them, but they still have sideways velocity, they keep that of course. nephele: Yep nephele: i currently use the view direction for their initial velocity Sven_vB: somehow I managed to skip the word "friction" above while reading. now it makes sense. sfan5: you could easy do such a thing yourself in on_step Sven_vB: friction would depend on what block they touch I guess. so on every movement, the block would have to check, and conditionally decelerate. sfan5: easily* nephele: sfan5: I suppose, would this involve tracking the entities and adjusting their velocity then? nephele: In that sense i am doing a bit of the physics engines work myself :) nephele: Sven_vB: Air should also apply some friction usually Sven_vB: nephele, yes. is air not a block in Minetest? nephele: Yes, but what is the point of checking if they are inside an air block? :) nephele: they shouldn't ever be inside a solid block anyway sfan5: local acc = self.object:get_acceleration(); self.object:set_accelection({x=math.max(0, acc.x-f.x*dtime), y=math.max(0, acc.y-f.y*dtime), z=math.max(0, acc.z-f.z*dtime)}) sfan5: ^ this is what you want isn't it? sfan5: uh or maybe that should be velocity(??) sfan5: if you also want it to stop on collisions you can just add that if you're modifying vel or acc anyway nephele: The game already does this nephele: stop on collisions i mean nephele: it should be velocity indeed sfan5: yes but that doesn't reset the acceleration they way you'd want it to behave sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5e6df0e7be46afe1dbdf6406e1109a8676a22092/builtin/game/item_entity.lua#L271-L279 sfan5: here's what I was thinking of regarding becoming slower without the "items will speed off in the opposite direction after some time" nephele: acceleration is absolute, what i would want api wise is probably a multiplication instead ;) nephele: as a seperate one... for the friction nephele: I'll try doing the on_step dance for now nephele: ah, i see, so in the on_step function of the item registration it should be Sven_vB: I'm trying to make a LUA mod. currently, it's just a hello world message: https://github.com/mk-pmb/minetest-mod-datenamed_chatlogs_pmb/blob/master/init.lua where should that message show up if my mod was loaded? it's neither in debug.txt nor in the console output, even though I launched minetest --verbose and joined a single player world. (and then quit) nephele: i usually use minetest.debug, did you enable that mod for the specific world you started? Sven_vB: not explicitly, that might be the problem. Sven_vB: yes that was it. Sven_vB: thanks! Sven_vB: how do I enable it (in my client) for use in server worlds? nephele: on_step works for slowdown, neat Sven_vB: now I extended my mod to detect its own path, but minetest.get_modpath gives a false-y value (probably nil), what's wrong?: https://github.com/mk-pmb/minetest-mod-datenamed_chatlogs_pmb/blob/master/init.lua Sven_vB: actually that's a conclusion already. my observation is the error(). nephele: basically all my modfiles start with local NAME = minetest.get_current_modname() nephele: ;) nephele: i hear its also possible to declare mod names in the mod.conf or something, but this seems much easier for whenever i want to move code around, or test mods side by side per version or something Sven_vB: oh nice. then I'll try that one. 11J​onathon: are you trying to make a log file for each day or something? Sven_vB: yes. 11J​onathon: --logfile $HOME/logs/`date +"%m%d"`.txt 11J​onathon: and a cron job to restart your server every day Sven_vB: I'm trying to make my client log the chats of multiplayer games. 11J​onathon: oh, a csm(client side mod) sfan5: I guess you can try opening luajit (not lua5.1!) and entering require('socket') to see if it works Sven_vB: hi :) I'm new to MT. I have 5.3.0 and an NPC is talking to me. I can select his message with ctrl+a, but how do I copy it to clipboard? neither ctrl+c nor ctrl+ins change clipboard content. 11J​onathon: Npc from which mod? Follpvosten[m]: I think they want to copy a chat messge? Sven_vB: meanwhile I found that what I'm really looking for is called formspecs. I'd like to wire something up so I can have them sent to stdin of a freshly launched custom command (my bash script). Sven_vB: I also discussed with a developer of that server and it seems we'll need to extend the client to get this as an accessibility feature Scarecrow: speaking of formspecs, is there any facility for forcing a monospace font? Scarecrow: oh, looks like there is Scarecrow: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9763 tango_: damnit I keep having troubles finding the chest in dungeons tango_: is every dungeon guaranteed to have a chest? are there secret rooms? specing: no no ryzenda: mtsedit ryzenda: I have a question about mtsedit mentioned at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23724 11I​hrFussel: ctrl + shift + c seems to work to copy selected formspec text...at least for me ryzenda: Using linux environment when I run `mtsedit map.mts` to load a map, it appears blank, and the console shows a bunch of lines "no matching node for #" 0 to 50, a few missing. A lot of defaults are listed though, such as default:desert_stone ryzenda: How can I load the map with those nodes to be recognized in mtsedit? tango_: specing: so there can be dungeons without chests? specing: yes specing: and dungeons with 2 chests or more tango_: woah * tango_: mind blown tango_: but this is such a big dungeon, I was really hoping for some meaty prize 8-/ * tango_: hates specing now tango_: 8-D tango_: OTOH I can move on to the next dungeon tango_: but srsly why ryzenda: another wiki typo: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods "Mintest" should be "Minetest" and https://wiki.minetest.net/index.php?search=mintest&button=&title=Special%3ASearch shows a few more typos ryzenda: Is it possible to show output of the X,Y,Z lengths of a mts map file? I want to know how big a map is ryzenda: note: I'm new to developing in minetest ryzenda: nm, i see #minetest-dev 09w​war: Couldn't find an older version than 5.0 for android.. anyone can help? 🤔 09w​war: Found one but it was a russian hacked client full with bugs and laggy sfan5: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2021-01-13#i_5772731 09w​war: Thanks :D imi: hi, can I turn the falling of gravel/sand off? sfan5: there's no setting but you can edit the code imi: I'll use mapedit then MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Montandalar -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Do not crash when a skeleton key is used on an unknown node (#2806) 1387f6b94 https://git.io/JtU7o (152021-01-15T16:43:19Z) sfan5: that seems like a weird way to solve it but use what works for you Sven_vB: I'm playing 5.3.0 on Ubuntu focal. is there an easy way to connect the ingame chat console to anything that socat can talk to? e.g. a TTY, or a program's stdio, a TCP server, a TCP client, ... Sven_vB: will the LUA chatlog addon work on all servers? I heard some servers would request addons be disabled, and the default client would obey that. Sven_vB: oh meh, we really have LUA 5.1 still? 06F​lamore: Pretty sure that by default Minetest logs chst Sven_vB: where is the logfile created usually? 11J​onathon: See irc mod Sven_vB: thanks! Sven_vB: this irc mod? https://content.minetest.net/packages/kaeza/irc/ it says it's for servers. I want to access the chat console of my Minetest client. Sven_vB: or maybe I misunderstood the tags 11J​onathon: Oh, client side, sorry i thought you ment server side, sorry AspireMint: Hello, is there any fn which is called when mapchunk/mapblock is sent to player? There is fn when chunk is generated, but can not find any when chunk/block is loaded again. BuckarooBanzai: AspireMint: no such thing yet, what yre you trying to accomplish? AspireMint: im trying to do some statistics, which mapblocks are most used etc. BuckarooBanzai: used as in loaded or in placed/digged? AspireMint: loaded BuckarooBanzai: alternatively to check if they (could be) loaded you could just add some globalstep logic and flag the mapblocks around the player every second or so AspireMint: Yes, but thats not accurate :-( DB trigger can do it, i guess, but... better if there is lua fn. BuckarooBanzai: to further complicate things: a mapblock can be cached for a while outside the database, or could even be loaded by a machine (mesecons, etc) BuckarooBanzai: are you trying to do a kind of "hotspot" map or is it about unused parts of the map? AspireMint: unused parts BuckarooBanzai: is your map too big? AspireMint: minetest.on_load_area would be helpful grrr AspireMint: it doesnt even exist yet x) AspireMint: but will be huge BuckarooBanzai: this function will be called quite a lot, i'm not sure thats good for performance (c++ to lua call) AspireMint: but not as often as globalstep or other abms, and server isnt always full of people walking at speed of light through map x) BuckarooBanzai: if you have a view-range of 10 mapblocks (the default i think) it would result in 1000+ calls just for one player BuckarooBanzai: i'm not saying it is a bad idea but it has some performance issues if done improperly... AspireMint: ooops, i think we are talking about different thing. I meant mapblock as bulk of nosed that is sent by server to player. Mapblock is not node. AspireMint: from allmighty api.lua: "A 'mapblock' (often abbreviated to 'block') is 16x16x16 nodes and is the AspireMint: fundamental region of a world that is stored in the world database, sent to AspireMint: clients and handled by many parts of the engine. AspireMint: 'mapblock' is preferred terminology to 'block' to help avoid confusion with AspireMint: 'node', however 'block' often appears in the API." BuckarooBanzai: well, i'm talking about the 16x16x16 node "blocks" BuckarooBanzai: node < mapblock < chunk AspireMint: uhh but why 1000+ calls? BuckarooBanzai: view-range of 10 mapblocks has (at least) 10^3 mapblocks in it, if not more BuckarooBanzai: there are some view-cone calulcations/culling but the amount sounds right... AspireMint: oh okay, because i was fast-flying through map in singleplayer and on_generated callback wasnt called so often, thats why i think it should not be problem. You are right, but also there is catch, it is not sent at one moment :-) BuckarooBanzai: on_generated is called for a chunk of 125 mapblocks ;) AspireMint: ooooh right x) AspireMint: haha, okay thanks for info and help, ill do some more testing 11I​hrFussel: Here's an idea but I have no clue how heavy it will be on the server: Add a custom group to every node or at least every node that's used for mapgen and then use a LBM 11I​hrFussel: In theory this should trigger whenever a player enters a new mapblock then 11I​hrFussel: New as in either newly generated or not-loaded AspireMint: thanks, im going to use invisible entity for each mapblock, and create own minetest.on_load_mapblock when entity is loaded. Am i right that entity will despawn when mapblock is unloaded? Or is it still alive in own universe (global variable)? AspireMint: nvm, it despawns... anyone knows what can be reason entity is not visible (not activated) but is placed to world? minetest.add_entity returns obj (so it is created) but on_activate is not called. Here is screenshot https://i.imgur.com/Oqy5nBw.png (spacing - 4 nodes in this case, but also same problem with 16, so its not in amount of entities, it shouldnt be..) BuckarooBanzai: AspireMint: source? AspireMint: BuckarooBanzai: https://www.paste.org/114202 AspireMint: lol, ignore that line - chat_send_all, theres bug but still, it is never nil so.. BuckarooBanzai: where is your `on_activate`? it should be called if it is in the entity definition... BuckarooBanzai: oh, and just a heads-up: if there are too many entities in the mapblock (there is a setting) all of them get removed ;) 04R​AB: Does anyone know why a client side mod using register_on_connect is throwing an error? Has this command been changed or deprecated? I'll be glad to read a document if anyone can point to something helpful. I was unable to find it using multiple search engines. ryzenda: https://wiki.minetest.net/Tool#Wear typo: "Wheather" should be "Whether" -- I can't find a way to edit or register an account ryzenda: only 1 typo: https://wiki.minetest.net/index.php?search=wheather&button=&title=Special%3ASearch sfan5: fixed AspireMint: BuckarooBanzai: sorry, can not edit that file... so here it is: on_activate = function(self, staticdata, dtime_s) if vector.distance(self.object:get_pos(), vector.new(64,-16,0)) < 1 then minetest.after(5, function() minetest.chat_send_all("---> is visible") end) end end AspireMint: BuckarooBanzai: that xyz i know from debug file, there should be entity. But somehow its missing, also tons of other entities are missing. BuckarooBanzai: well, they only spawn on mapgen, are you sure it is freshly generated? AspireMint: static_save = true , so it is loaded when i restart server BuckarooBanzai: did you try to move the `chat_send_all` a bit further up? the condition might not be true there BuckarooBanzai: static_save is true by default iirc 04R​AB: Does anyone know why a client side mod using register_on_connect is throwing an error? Has this command been changed or deprecated? I'll be glad to read a document if anyone can point to something helpful. I was unable to find it using multiple search engines. AspireMint: BuckarooBanzai: it is inside of .after fn, so when i log in it will wait and print it on my screen AspireMint: RAB: what MT version? i can not find any "register_on_connect" function sfan5: yeah that was probably removed https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/client_lua_api.txt hisforever: Mabee someone can help I just installed Debin os on my laptop. the software center only has Mt 0.4.19 How can I get the latist MT 04K​not Abbot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest 04K​not Abbot: read the compiling section 11J​onathon: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable sudo apt update sudo apt install minetest sfan5: I thought PPA don't work on debian? 11J​onathon: not sure, at least the bot here claims it does 11J​onathon: if it doesn't that needs to be fixed sfan5: you could also download a deb package of a development build here https://gitlab.com/minetest/minetest/-/pipelines?scope=finished&page=1 sfan5: (download button on the right, you can pick debian-9 or debian-10) 04K​not Abbot: Oh didn't know there was this option as well, nice. hisforever: Thanks sfan5 Wuzzy: hey, lets play on A.E.S. server, there are many minigames specing: 128 or 256? 13r​ealtechnerd: test Bombo: hi Bombo: i installed minetest from the play store on my android (10) tablet, but every time i start it i just get 3/4 or so of the screen big_caballito[m]: 👋 Bombo: the touch input is full screen the actual grafics are 3/4, so i can't hit connect or stuff big_caballito[m]: on amdroid? Bombo: yes big_caballito[m]: s/amdroid/android Bombo: android 10 Bombo: i deleted cache, then data, no change, uninstalled, installed no change big_caballito[m]: what do you mean by "touch... is full screen"? the buttons? Bombo: touch input is not in sync with the gfx Bombo: so the coordinates where i see e.g. the connect button nothing happens, but if i add like 50 to x and 50 to y axis big_caballito[m]: ok... now i understand your problem big_caballito[m]: so big_caballito[m]: idk, have you looked around in the settings? Bombo: just the gfx is like 3/4 of the full screen Bombo: it's hard to hit the settings big_caballito[m]: this is a little out of my experience, maybe sfan5 can help better? IK he does android stuff Bombo: and it should be reset after i uninstalled/reinstalled and deled the data+cache i guess big_caballito[m]: but it wasn't, hmm * Bombo: asks sfan5 Bombo: the one i found on f-droid doesn't start at all btw Bombo: i just get the loading bar big_caballito[m]: can you look at your minetest.conf? i.e. do you have a text editor app? big_caballito[m]: this is the version from github, right? Krock: f-droid apks are outdated Bombo: samsung notes Bombo: i installed i from google play store big_caballito[m]: I wouldn't trust any from google play, you should try the one from https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases Krock: net.minetest.minetest is the official one. version 5.3.0 Krock: and that's maintained well Krock: irrlicht should use the full reported screen size Krock: but I've also seen reports where it scaled wrongly on retina displays (1/4 of the screen) Krock: if you would like to tinker with the settings manually, loko out for minetest.conf within the game's working directory (parent directory of "worlds") Krock: or using the GUI. the settings are named screen_w and screen_h sfan5: uhh, no idea Krock: monte is usually our guy who takes care about Android problems big_caballito[m]: good to know, lol Bombo: it's 5.3.0 Bombo: what's a good free conf editor? Bombo: there are too many Bombo: first one didn't let me change dirs Bombo: second one just a viewer lol big_caballito[m]: I like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplemobiletools.notes.pro big_caballito[m]: pretty sure it can edit text files Bombo: ok got it Bombo: there was screen_w=1440 screen_h=900 Bombo: for some reason Bombo: real is 1920x1200 Bombo: i commented it out and now i get full screen big_caballito[m]: 👍️ Bombo: minetest.conf had screen_w=1440 screen_h=900 big_caballito[m]: !next (even though I barely helped) MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Bombo: ;) Bombo: thx anyways big_caballito[m] ;) big_caballito[m]: np Bombo: and Krock :) Bombo: next prob Bombo: the password screen doesn't seem to work big_caballito[m]: uh-oh Bombo: i try to register a new acount Bombo: i get the screen to enter the pw after i hit connect Bombo: i get the virtual keyboard Bombo: type it in hit ok but the characters won't appear in the input field Bombo: not even ***** Bombo: well i see a input box with shows *** as i type, (probably local) and in the bg there is a ingame window with an input box and button for registering Bombo: that is not receiving the pw from my virtual kb i guess Bombo: is that a known bug? sfan5: once you confirm the "foreground" input box it'll appear in the real box Bombo: yes thats's the issue, it won't Bombo: after 20 tries i got a pw entered Bombo: but i tried to register another user now, and same prob, the fg pw doesn't get through to the bg box sfan5: huh Bombo: hm when i tap 3 times into the green pw box it sometimes works 04K​not Abbot: I don't get it either, I had an issue on the forums about that, but 5.3.0 didn't fix it sadly, I'm only able to type in the username, the password never appears sadly. daiNoZord: bringing two worlds together - does anyone use the IRC mod? 11J​onathon: according to servers.minetest.net/list 40 servers use the irc mod daiNoZord: aha thanks daiNoZord: Im having trouble: /home/dai/Desktop/minetest/mods/LuaIRC/luairc/doc daiNoZord: nope wrong copy daiNoZord: wont copy daiNoZord: undefined symbol:lua_gettop daiNoZord: in usr/lib/x86_64linux-gnu/lua/5.1/socket/core.so sfan5: your minetest is very likely *not* using the system-wide lua sfan5: the hard part about this is that you need to install the socket library to exactly match the Lua installation used by Minetest sfan5: which is most likely your system-wide LuaJIT daiNoZord: because it's run-in-place? Thats ok its a battle for another day then - I cant edit minetest .conf until i strip my sdd so i cant test it with a global install but this machine wont be my server in the end anyway. Thanks for the tip sfan5: no that's irrelevant daiNoZord: oh right - luajit, luarocks, luasocket all installed - how do i point minetest to them then? daiNoZord: i only followed the wiki sfan5: no no it's not that easy sfan5: you might have Lua 5.1 and LuaJIT on your system, both are *separate* Lua installations sfan5: if you install luasocket for lua5.1 but Minetest uses luajit, it won't work sfan5: maybe the wiki got this right already, but that's something I'd find out first daiNoZord: i was just looking thru google at "downloading luasocket for luajit" .. not much iamweasel: hi iamweasel: are there any good mods with weapons? better if it's 1 or a few fun well-balanced weapons, ranged is a plus SwissalpS: iamweasel: take a look at [multitools] https://github.com/ChimneySwift/multitools MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Factorize more guiEditBoxes code (#10789) 134b01282 https://git.io/JtfOD (152021-01-13T08:05:09Z) imi: hi imi: I have a minetestserver running (under linux). how do I terminate it? Can I just press ctrl-c and expect it to terminate properly? 04K​not Abbot: yes or use the X 11I​hrFussel: 'killall minetestserver' is fine too if you only have 1 instance running imi: for some weird reason my minetestserver created a new world in bin/worldname instead of using the regular worlds/worldname imi: does it matter in which directory do I start the minetestserver? e.g. if I go to bin and issue ./minetestserver or one dir aboce and issue ./bin/minetestserver (handcompiled) celeron55: if you use --world its parameter is a path, not a name (and you have to use --world if you want to create a new world instead of using an existing one) celeron55: so if you cd to bin and run minetestserver with --world foobar, you'll get a world in bin/foobar celeron55: if you have a world named foobar in worlds and use --worldname foobar, then it'll use that celeron55: so if you cd to bin and want to create a new world named foobar in the regular world directory using minetestserver, you need to use --world ../worlds/foobar celeron55: alternatively what works is to create an empty directory foobar in worlds and then use --worldname, it'll find it and fill it in imi: I have a world foobar at ../worlds/foobar but it created a new one at ./foobar celeron55: yes, that's correct if you use --world and not --worldname celeron55: path vs. name imi: ./minetestserver -map-dir ../worlds/foobar seem to be the most self explanatory celeron55: it does exactly the same as --world imi: ok so it's not --worldname but --world? 11I​hrFussel: --world expects a path and --worldname expects a name that exists in the worlds dir...simple as that Wuzzy: Question to all: Do we have an Android / iOS version of Minetest, but for version 0.4.17? Wuzzy: In other words: Is there a way to join JT2 on Android? 04K​not Abbot: Yeah download from source maybe. 04K​not Abbot: Choose the apk Wuzzy: oh noes Wuzzy: Is there a NOOB-PROOF way to do this? Wuzzy: There should be an official 0.4.17 download so players can play on JT2 again Wuzzy: oh wait. is minetest on iOS? 04K​not Abbot: I'll link it to you 04K​not Abbot: Is 0.4.17.1 ok? 0.4.17 doesn't have an apk option. 04K​not Abbot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/0.4.17.1/Minetest-0.4.17.3.apk rubenwardy: yeah Wuzzy: its okay rubenwardy: Minetest doesn't support iOS because the App Store T&Cs are problematic, Wuzzy Wuzzy: ah 04K​not Abbot: Ye sorry this is for Android rubenwardy: it arguably conflicts with GPL 04K​not Abbot: oof Wuzzy: isn't it the other way round? "iOS doesn't support Minetest" 😛 04K​not Abbot: Android ftw rubenwardy: "App Store doesn't support Minetest" rubenwardy: because we could support iOS, but we wouldn't be able to publish it rubenwardy: and as iOS is heavily locked down, you'd need to jailbreak your device or get a developer license ($100 per year) to install custom apps Wuzzy: oh I just wanted to help an user to move away from one of those weird mobile forks ... Wuzzy: Yes I know Apple sucks completely rubenwardy: Multicraft is on iOS, they believe they have a loop hole in LGPL that's not in GPL rubenwardy: I don't think that's true, and I'm not sure how much it's worth supporting such a toxic platform anyway :D Wuzzy: the player I'm talking to is on an iPad. Is this iOS or macOS? rubenwardy: iOS lol 04K​not Abbot: Why is it toxic? I'm out of the loop lol. 06F​lamore: Multicraft is 0.4.0 04K​not Abbot: f xD rubenwardy: Knot Abbot: and as iOS is heavily locked down, you'd need to jailbreak your device or get a developer license ($100 per year) to install custom apps rubenwardy: also the app store thing 04K​not Abbot: yeah no thanks apple 04K​not Abbot: I'm so glad I switched. 06F​lamore: Jailbreaking sounds better than paying the fee Wuzzy: Is iPad iOS or macOS? rubenwardy: I've responded, iOS rubenwardy: iOS is the mobile OS. macOS is the desktop OS rubenwardy: macOS doesn't have this problem because they actually allow other app stores and sideloading apps 04K​not Abbot: Weird. 05e​xe_virus: Yikes, they need to switch to a table format instead of constant names everywhere haha rubenwardy: What settings are recommended to reduce map memory use? rubenwardy: Guessing client_mapblock_limit, active_block_range, max_block_send_distance, max_block_generate_distance 06F​lamore: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=1825 rubenwardy: ah thanks rubenwardy: that's not quite right hisforever: Hi I frogot the mod that has window flower boxes frostsnow: I recently upgraded 'signs_lib' and now have a large number of undefined LUA entities named 'signs:text' around (specifically, wherever a sign is). What's the best way to clean them off my server? kevr: damn man. i have not found _one_ sheep yet from mobs_animal. kevr: is there a way to test the mod to make sure its actually spawning sheep? Emerald2: I wonder if clearing objects would remove them, frostsnow. frostsnow: Emerald2: Heh, as you said that I was 80% through a '/clearobjects full' which did the trick. Emerald2: It works on the weird end results of worldedit copying armour stands with things on them. XD Emerald2: I have made some interesting oopses when copying stuff with worldedit. frostsnow: I only upgrade my server once and a great while so the changes can get... interesting. kevr: ah, a sheep did finally appear kevr: hm kevr: can i use my crafting space in the inventory as inventory space or will it expire? specing: kevr: test it, put some cobble in and see tango_: kevr: in MT the crafting space in the inventory does not espire erlehmann: liebes tagebuch MinetestBot: 02[git] 04runsy -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement on_rightclickplayer callback (#10775) 1308ee979 https://git.io/Jte9u (152021-01-11T17:03:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Document how to make nametags background disappear on players' head (… 131946835 https://git.io/Jte96 (152021-01-11T17:03:46Z) Calinou: huh https://typescripttolua.github.io/ sfan5: that's neat erstazi: If one has LuaJIT running on a server and it has 16bit, how does one handle loading a file that is 2.8mb ? advtrains_interlocking_tcb file for advtrains is now causing the server to error out. is there a way to compile LuaJIT to have 32bit support or is LuaJIT stuck with 16bit only? sfan5: no such thing as 16bit sfan5: (in this context at least) sfan5: people might have issues with luajit being 32bit but that shouldn't prevent a 3MB file from being loaded sfan5: what does the error log actually say? 06F​lamore: 16-bit doesn't necessarily mean 16-bit addressing lol, 32 bits should be fine with files up to 4 GB erstazi: sfan5: getting it (it isn't my server) however I think it has to deal with the max limit of items in a table erstazi: I was told that this is the same error that advtrains is having: https://github.com/minetest-mods/xban2/issues/19 erstazi: linux-forks is the server that is having the issue and it is the server that maintains advtrains erstazi: specific error: WARNING[Main]: [xban] Unable to load database: Deserialization failed: (load):378023: main function has more than 65536 constants sfan5: uh yeah that's an issue with luajit and cannot be fixed erstazi: crud sfan5: well, xban could switch to a different file format as proposed in the linked-linked issue erstazi: that might be a solution sfan5: but you can't "just" fix it for yourself or your installatio erstazi: Thank you for your help dennisjenkins: Hello. I just added digiline support for the spacecannon mod. It is now possible to use a Lua controller to orchestrate the firing of multiple cannons. Demo: https://youtu.be/b_PiJnP4-fo dennisjenkins: PR is out, waiting for spacecannon owner to merge it or provide feedback. specing: there's no such mod listed in the contentdb ryzenda: I just noticed something in the "Join Game" list of servers, I just tried to search for a bunch of strings/words that I'd expect to see public servers with those words, names, whatever, at least some, but I suspect there is some kind of censorship in the list of servers that appear. Is that the case? ryzenda: cuz if that's the case, I definitely want to disable the censorship if that's possible, so that I have absolutely no speech censorship whatsoever ryzenda: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3068 kinda mentions briefly about censorship, but otherwise I'm not sure yet ryzenda: hmm, https://content.minetest.net/help/content_flags/ mentions flags bad_language, drugs, etc ryzenda: Oh, interesting, I see https://content.minetest.net/packages/rubenwardy/capturetheflag/ is listed as an available game mode to install, but only on the website. I can't search and find it within the minetest application environment ryzenda: probably something related to the violence flag, but how do I enable that so I can use it? sfan5: those content flags only apply to the content database, you can disable filtering by setting contentdb_flag_blacklist to be empty sfan5: the server list tab shows everything that exists, no filtering 08a​ppguru: "Is that the case?" 08a​ppguru: ryzenda: no, the server list is not "censored" - it is however "moderated" ryzenda: oh, is there a way I can see an unmoderated, uncensored list of all minetest servers? 12W​arr1024: there might be, but even if someone here knew it, we're unlikely to publicize it, as the moderation happens for a reason. 12W​arr1024: Hmm, I don't know about any in-menu filtering that's going on, but you should be able to see all the publicly listed MT servers at http://servers.minetest.net/ 06F​lamore: pretty sure the censoring comes right from the server list, any client modification wouldn't change it 12W​arr1024: There may be servers that exist but aren't listed in there. Some might be because the server owners decide not to announce them, even though they're publicly available. Others might be due to violation of community standards or whatever. 12W​arr1024: Looking at that list, it's pretty uncensored. 08a​ppguru: "censoring" is the wrong term 12W​arr1024: Whatever the correct terminology is, the MT server list includes pretty much every server that has decided to announce itself, with the exception of only a few known malicious ones. I don't think there's necessarily any filtering based on e.g. content. rubenwardy: ryzenda: no rubenwardy: Very few servers have been removed from the server list, mostly just server spammers - there's been people who've made hundreds of servers with different names to write messages in the serverlist dennisjenkins: Building digiline HV cable in survival mode is expensive... 06F​lamore: of course dennisjenkins: Speaking of the "server list"... I host ~12 minetest servers on my personal dev box, just on my LAN (not exposed to internet), for my kids and I. I turn them on and off (each is an LXC container) based on CPU usage and idle time. (I can't run them all at once). I also run my own "server list" server thingy, and have our local MT clients pointing to it. Those clients crash on startup if the server list is listed less than 3 servers. dennisjenkins: 0,1,2 and the clients crash dennisjenkins: all 5.3.0 clients. dennisjenkins: two on ubuntu from official packages, one on gentoo from whatever ebuild gentoo has. 06F​lamore: pretty sure ubuntu fossa packages are version 5.1.0 dennisjenkins: I'm using a PPA Krock: package managers are always outdated 06F​lamore: that's 5.3.0 then, dennisjenkins: # Minetest latest needs PPA. dennisjenkins: self.run(["add-apt-repository", "--yes", "ppa:minetestdevs/stable"]) dennisjenkins: I have a .py script which builds a new LXC container based on a json config file, and loads in a custom set of minetest mods. dennisjenkins: then applies patches, sets up the map server, regenerates colors.txt, etc... dennisjenkins: takes ~3 minutes to fully stand up a new MT server. 12W​arr1024: client crashing on a server list with fewer than 3 entries sounds like the kind of actual bug that could easily slip under the radar because there are no real-world test cases for it... Might be worth seeing if anyone else can repro it, and file a bug report? 12W​arr1024: Or I guess check and make sure there isn't one already open... dennisjenkins: Yes. I should have done that months ago, but didn't get around to it. 12W​arr1024: Containers are a really nice way to make MT server stuff easier to manage. I use Docker for my stuff, though I have no strong opinions about the specific choice of container-based tech. dennisjenkins: I use LXC b/c I like to be able to SSH / "lxc exec" into the container and have a normal/full OS installed. 12W​arr1024: From what I understand, there is a ton of overlap between the 2 stacks, and most of what you can do in one you can do in the other, and they mostly just differ in terms of how easy/intuitive they make specific things, how resource-intensive certain things are, and how they're marketed or used downstream? I got into Docker because that was the stack chosen at my job... dennisjenkins: I've used both, but am not proficient at docker. I have to read the docs all the time to figure out how to do things. Oh well. :) 12W​arr1024: I mostly use the linuxserver.io MT docker image for server usage, though I've made significant customizations over time. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Sanitize server IP field in mainmenu (#10793) 13fcb3ed8 https://git.io/JLjga (152021-01-10T19:10:12Z) search_social: how can i make my character place blocks faster 10T​eewodowe: hold right click 12W​arr1024: IIRC there is a setting for how fast right-click auto-repeats...? 04K​not Abbot: Wow we have everything. ._. 04K​not Abbot: Autoclickers are bloat xD 10T​eewodowe: idk, but mine instantly puts the block if i dont ocupe the place and is in range 10T​eewodowe: i just say hold right click, its the fastess ull get with no glitches 04K​not Abbot: I so wish that poo could stop staring into my soul. 10T​eewodowe: lol, i have heard many times that my profile picture is disturbing 10T​eewodowe: ik a few but do not feel confortable talking of 06F​lamore: Holding is slower than jitter clicking dennisjenkins: from earlier today, the bug where the MT client would crash when getting a small server list from a private "server list server". I was able to reduce the repro to a very specific number of steps. I filed a bug: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10794 10T​eewodowe: is it? 10T​eewodowe: idk blur: fullscreen looks blurry and there's gaps between textures :S blur: oh the selection makes those gaps :) blur: but the blurry screen looks like the refresh rate is not correct blur: i have had similar looking desktop with wrong refresh rate or wrong resolution imi: so the problem I'm working on right now: I need a cool place for my base, therefore I'm looking for a relatively big island. Which could be easily find if I could force-load the area around me with the radius of 256 blocks imi: is that even possible? am I on the right track? What's your idea? What would be your solution to this problem? submariner: minetest is such a good study tool 05e​xe_virus: Study tool? How so? Andrey01: hello Andrey01: how to rotate a node around its face direction? although the face direction stay the same here and therefore 'minetest.dir_to_facedir()' passed as the third argument to 'minetest.set_node()' will return the same param2 value, I think daiNoZord: Was running 5.3 Snap with a bunch of mods and all was fine - but I couldn't edit my minetest.conf (Read Only Root FS) - so after a while I gave up and built 5.4 to run in place. Now I can edit minetest.conf, BUT with the same mods installed as before, it always says "connection timed out". Am I missing something? daiNoZord: Also - yes I logged in as root and tried to edit minetest.conf that way but no joy hence the run-in-place option daiNoZord: Does anyone thing it's because it's run-in-place or because of a difference between 5.3 and 5.4? Krock: connection timed out? are there warnings/errors in the terminal? Krock: or debug.txt Krock: perhaps it failed to open a port for the singleplayer game, but that would be quite strange daiNoZord: i tried changing the port i'll look in debug.txt now Krock: alternatively try ./minetest --server --worldname "directory name of a world within worlds/" to launch a local server in commmand line Krock: that should output the necessary information to the terminal Krock: if that succeeds you could try to connect to 127.0.0.1 (port) using the multiplayer tab daiNoZord: lots of errors and warnings there in terminal Krock: mind uploading those to a paste service? daiNoZord: https://pastebin.pl/view/b62535db daiNoZord: Thanks Krock Krock: hmmm Krock: looks like the server is listening on ipv6 Krock: did you set "ipv6_server = true" in minetest.conf, by any chance? If so, try "false" daiNoZord: i set it in the gui Krock: that, or "bind_address = 127.0.0.1" Krock: there are also a bunch of mod errors, but those aren't a problem as long the server can start - which happens by the looks of it Krock: another thing to try would be to start a completely new world, without any additional mods enabled daiNoZord: set bind address to 127.0.0.1 and enabled ipv6 in both sections of the gui and still shut down. Krock: so that a server-sided script engine lockup (infinite loop in a mod) can be checked sfan5: are you sure it starts up correctly despite those errors? Krock: the server starts, but I suspect a mod locks the lua env daiNoZord: it seems to run in terminal but not from gui. I can run the server headless from another machine eventually but right now thats not so easy. If i disable a mod - say unified inventory, then it works. re-enable it crashes again, disable basic robots, its ok - re-enable it crashes again. it does seem to be certain mod combos but only since i moved over to the 5.4 run-in-place Krock: are all mods up-to-date? Krock: mods are pretty much dependant, hence there should be a limited list of combinations that do not work daiNoZord: prob not - huh. it seems an odd way to do it but i started the server in terminal and joined it thru gui and im in! I think maybe thats what u were telling me and i missed it. Strange then that the issue persists joining my own server thru the gui Krock: so it's a mod that handles singleplayer differently than multiplayer Krock: cd mods/ grep -r is_singleplayer could reveal one or two mods Krock: also yes, that's what I meant previously (the GUI thing). anyway, update all mods. perhaps it's already fixed daiNoZord: first 3 mods aren't enabled - then there's 3d armor and moremesecons. that narrows it down! Thanks Krock Krock: you're welcome. 3d_armor has btw a more recent version hosted on github / minetest-mods repository in case you closed stu's repo daiNoZord: I disabled both and still timed out Krock: the server starts within a few seconds so the startup time cannot be the problem.. hmm daiNoZord: and with only those two mods enabled it loads up fast daiNoZord: given it works in singleplayer and in some conditions, multiplayer.... it's not a mistake I've made building it is it? Krock: no, definitely not a build mistake daiNoZord: I'm glad it works - I can carry on building, but it's possible that others may run into issues in the future. If I do get to the root of it I'll report back. I'll start by making a new mods folder and ensuring they're all the latest versions and see ho that goes daiNoZord: *how daiNoZord: ooh good i certainly will :) daiNoZord: 504 my internet is going backwards - it'll get there 11J​onathon: if the forums are 504 ing for you, thats nothing new get used to it daiNoZord: looks good! on quick glance - what y pos do u use - got realms installed atm n thinking prob both wont work daiNoZord: space realm... 11J​onathon: i prefer space 20k and above, but its your choice daiNoZord: k im going to look into this - i think its going to fit in so SO perfectly with my storyline :) daiNoZord: Thanks daiNoZord: ! 11J​onathon: np daiNoZord: i guessed it was possible because basic_machines has a enviro.lua or something and if u go over about 11000 nodes the skybox cocks up but i fixed it for my thing. daiNoZord: i think... 05e​xe_virus: Crosspost from minetest-dev-irc: what is the issue with using indexed pngs with the allfaces drawtype? Paramat mentions it is an issue, and i'm testing indexed vs original and getting no differences (for Minetest Game's textures for leaves) kevr: any suggested reliable animal mod with sheep in it? big_caballito[m]: mobs_animal with mobs_redo kevr: big_caballito[m]: each loaded as separate mods? big_caballito[m]: the fomer depends on the latter big_caballito[m]: former* kevr: is there a way to specify mod order? big_caballito[m]: just enable them both ;) kevr: i have them both enabled, mobs_animal is giving me an error. big_caballito[m]: what? use a pastebin big_caballito[m]: whats the error i mean kevr: big_caballito[m]: http://sprunge.us/PtsM37 big_caballito[m]: it references line #22 in mobs_animal init.lua can you tell whats going on? ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/22 -- Instant block destroy bug big_caballito[m]: (Do you have programming experience to figure it out) big_caballito[m]: bad bot kevr: big_caballito[m]: chicken.lua tries to call mobs::spawn, apparently it doesn't exist; perhaps that's defined by redo? kevr: big_caballito[m]: it worked, i cloned a non-upstream repo for mobs_redo big_caballito[m]: nice! I tested it and it seemed to work so yea 04K​not Abbot: kevr: if you prefer, you can use Better Fauna for mobkit too. 11J​onathon: new moreblocks placement is really annoying tango_: jonathon: my fault. do you have suggestions on improvement? what are you finding annoying? tango_: modulo bugs (some of which have been fixed recently) the only comment I've seen so far about it is that it made slab placement much easier tango_: (which was the main objective) 11J​onathon: whats annoying is placing say a slope from a distance away is different than standing write up next to it (standing right up next to it is correct behavior) 11J​onathon: let me take some pictures 11J​onathon: new moreblocks 11J​onathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/797159710964580392/unknown.png tango_: Jonathon: first of all please make sure you are on the latest moreblocks, I fixed a bug about this recently tango_: jonathon: the orientation should depend exclusively on whether or not shift is pressed and which side of the face you click, not on distance tango_: yep I think that's the bug fixed in #166 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/166 -- Lua API for player armour tango_: bad bot tango_: jonathon: can you verify you have this? https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/166 tango_: should be merged in this commit: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/commit/8a142501277542e958a36eb770ef99b85b0eb0f8 11J​onathon: let me check what cdb has tango_: ah it might be on an unreleased version, good point tango_: yep, it's unreleased 8-P tango_: it's the commit right after 2.1.0 got tagged 11J​onathon: let me wack cdb version and git clone, moment tango_: I think after we resolve the matter with the recipe extensions I'll ask Calinou to tag a new release so people stop complaining about the bugs I introduced ;-) 11J​onathon: yup, that fixes it 11J​onathon: ty 11J​onathon: note to self, dont be lazy and use cdb 11J​onathon: * for testing tango_: jonathon: NP tango_: jonathon: in fact I would appreciate if you can test it from android and verify that #163 is also fixed ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/163 -- Suspiciously large amount of objects.....increase limit! by sfan5 11J​onathon: i never play on andriod.... tango_: no problem then 8-) 11J​onathon: ill test, but dont take me as a expert tango_: don't install MT on android just for that though 11J​onathon: appears to work fine for me tango_: even when placing on nodes way off-center? 11J​onathon: i tested dead ahead of me and max reach, and one to each side 11J​onathon: *at tango_: excellent tango_: thanks 11J​onathon: image of test(from pc hosting server) 11J​onathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/797164225738702889/unknown.png 11J​onathon: np 10T​eewodowe: ? tango_: yap, all very good tango_: jonathon: if your tried with 2.1.0, the ones on the side would come up flipped to the side 11J​onathon: ah realthegooduser: Hi. I need some help with minetest ;) 04o​neplustwo: state thy problem realthegooduser: So I installed thy mod, and It seem to have broken, I get the "unknown node" block, and when I punched er out, (there are 3 blocks) I can't place anything in the middle block realthegooduser: I'm making an apartment I am on floor 17/30 if you're wondering what I'm making realthegooduser: it said "unable to define position" or something similar, it was an obsidian door realthegooduser: and it seemed to have ruined the regular glass door too realthegooduser: oh wait, sorry this ping wasn't for me? realthegooduser: oops 04o​neplustwo: 1. That is probably not my mod 2. Where is that mod? 04o​neplustwo: welp he ran away daiNoZord: how do i seperate games like ctf, skyblock etc in to different realms? 08a​ppguru: "realms" ? 04K​not Abbot: :wat: 08a​ppguru: Knot Abbot: they can't see that 04K​not Abbot: ayyyy 04K​not Abbot: u_u MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Refactor/gui editbox (#10787) 135fcc78a https://git.io/JLxtW (152021-01-07T12:21:12Z) Miniontoby: Hi 09M​iniontoby: wait Miniontoby: why is that discord not the offical one?? sfan5: ? 09M​iniontoby: this discord relay is soo cool Miniontoby: but yeah Miniontoby: sfan5: Cann you help with my minetest server sfan5: with what exactly? 09M​iniontoby: let me tell you when my client has joined my other irc Miniontoby: now Miniontoby: Look Miniontoby: i have public minetest hosting Miniontoby: i got server_announce on Miniontoby: i got server_announce = true Miniontoby: but if i look at server list it not shows up Miniontoby: i have checked the firewall, but it doesnt looks like its stopping it Miniontoby: and ye if you want to see it, i got an website with an api (kind of) to get all servers from my address Miniontoby: the address is minetest.grape.ircnow.org port 30001 Miniontoby: https://minetest.grape.ircnow.org/ Miniontoby: below ¨Check our servers here: Miniontoby: ¨ there should be the servers from the server list sfan5: it's the same a few days ago: your IPv6 doesn't work hence the server doesn't appear Miniontoby: !server addr:minetest.grape.ircnow.org port:30001 MinetestBot: Miniontoby: No results Miniontoby: now it works Miniontoby: sfan5: i fixed it Miniontoby: we added rdns for the minetest record sfan5: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) sfan5: evidently not Miniontoby: 40001 Miniontoby: is the ipv6 sfan5: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: 4.... is ipv6 Miniontoby: but udp cant go to ipv6 by us for some reason Miniontoby: btw i could disable the ipv6 in the dns Miniontoby: then see it sfan5: yes, that would also solve the problem Miniontoby: now lets see Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: hmmm Miniontoby: no the rdns Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: why it not sees its not ipv6 anymore Miniontoby: grape:~ $ host minetest.grape.ircnow.org Miniontoby: minetest.grape.ircnow.org has address 198.251.89.91 Miniontoby: grape:~ $ Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 is up (14ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: see its up sfan5: yeah and now wait a while and it will appear in the server list Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 is up (14ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30002 Miniontoby: should need to restart them Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30002 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30002 is up (14ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: oh no Miniontoby: founded Miniontoby: Minetest-logo.svg:1 GET https://minetest.grape.ircnow.org/Minetest-logo.svg 404 (Not Found) Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: will look that up Miniontoby: https://minetest.grape.ircnow.org/ Miniontoby: see it Krock: Miniontoby: found your private email address by browsing the problem_status.php page Miniontoby: wut? Miniontoby: where you mean? Krock: https://minetest.grape.ircnow.org/mtserverrequest/problem_status.php?problem_id=1 Miniontoby: ye Miniontoby: will remove it Miniontoby: thx Krock: also hide other emails, and hash the request to use that as an ID, rather than an incremental list Miniontoby: fixed Miniontoby: https://minetest.grape.ircnow.org/ Miniontoby: looks greater Miniontoby: maybe idk Miniontoby: btw i dont care Miniontoby: oke Miniontoby: the email is hidden for now Miniontoby: now it will only show if is staff 10c​Hyper: Krock@IRC thx for info... cu cHyper. Krock: uhm ok Miniontoby: huh daiNoZord: d8506967 daiNoZord: a1098747 rubenwardy: Hope that's not your password you just pasted there rubenwardy: Hm, probably git hash daiNoZord: does anyone know how to implement seperate games like ctf, skyblock etc in to different realms? 12W​arr1024: Just create spatial partitions in your map and make sure each realm's specific rules are only enforced within those regions? 12W​arr1024: For example, I have recipes that only work, and resources that can only exist, within the skyrealm in https://gitlab.com/sztest/nc_skyrealm 12W​arr1024: It did require me to re-implement the original mods and sprinkle realm checks throughout nearly everything though, plus I had to add AISMs to detect when sky resources are carried down to the surface and uncraft them. daiNoZord: Ah ok thanks Warr1024 i'll take a look at that, sounds just like what i need :) 12W​arr1024: As far as I know it's just not easy, and if you want to have like a "minigames" world with a lot of very different games coexisting, and free travel between them without having to jump to a different actual server, it could be a lot of work. daiNoZord: work is fine. nothing better to do atm! done loads past few days and my 10yo is helping a lot with building. im not a coder - more into gameplay dynamic and making models etc but i've put a few lines of lua together to fill some gaps so far. Yes minigames seems fun. ill keep working on it til either i figure it out or i think of a better way of doing things rubenwardy: There's arena lib for this rubenwardy: !mod arena MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Arena_lib [arena_lib] by Zughy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24509 - https://gitlab.com/zughy-friends-minetest/arena_lib daiNoZord: ooh cool i'll take a look at that too - thanks jetter: Git branch is called hash? tango_: no, the hash is the commit id Brinso: hi Brinso: :-D 04K​not Abbot: yo what's poppin? daiNoZord: ok - i tried to check if my ore spawned but i dont want to tear up the ground to do it..... daiNoZord: i wrote a few lines to do it daiNoZord: minetest freezes then crashes daiNoZord: so i found someone elses mod daiNoZord: same daiNoZord: is it because im trying to search 1000+ nodes? daiNoZord: i think i set it to spawn below -1666 but its hella rare too so.... digging up the planet wold be, say, like digging up the planet daiNoZord: I'm fairly confident in what I've written because I found it in a test world - but..... belts n braces n all that..... daiNoZord: I know the cycles per second went a bit bonkers so yeah - it feels like I'm answering my own question really but - if there's an easier way I'd be glad to hear it daiNoZord: Hmm.. do I have faith and leave it at that.. or use nuke arrows and destroy the terrain that the mapgen developers have put thought and effort into creating.... Hawk777: Create a separate world to verify that things work properly, throw it away, and then play in a nice clean world? daiNoZord: crossed my mind. it worked originally in a test world - i just wanted to be absolutely safe that it spawned in this world - many bespoke items and pretty much the whole quest dynamic depends on these ores daiNoZord: Also - is it possible to change skybox depending on altitude? I reckon so but haven't quite figured out how 11J​onathon: yes, see any mod that provides "space" 12W​arr1024: Should be multiple different kinds of skin mofs 11J​onathon: skinsdb is the most common if i recall correctly bless: hi bless: minetest window is too small in macos bless: can i expand it? bless: also, my mouse can't click some things 04K​not Abbot: macOS is bad for game 04K​not Abbot: sorry :( bless: ok. how do i make pineapple tops 04K​not Abbot: u need to put pineapple in the crafting grid I think bless: tried 04K​not Abbot: eat the pineapple 04K​not Abbot: then u get the eop 04K​not Abbot: top bless: oh bless: ty 04K​not Abbot: np bless: do you think the mac problem is a missing dependency, like gtk? 04K​not Abbot: Idk could be 04K​not Abbot: definitely fix all possible dependency issues before trying other stuff. 12W​arr1024: On mac OS I think there has been a bug causing clicks to miss if the game is not full screen, expand it to full screen and it should work better 04o​neplustwo: on macOS shift+click to automatically move inventory items doesn't work bless: it wont expand. only the space outside of the menu screen expands big_caballito[m]: use full screen from the settings bless: trying that ryzendar: Is there a mod to adjust camera angle for taking screenshots at different fields of view? ryzendar: I want to see my character from the side angles MiniontobyPI: Hi Miniontoby: netstat -p udp -a -n Miniontoby: works by me yoshi-the-drunk: Just installed minetest and I find it to be pretty cool! Though I'm not sure I'd consider it a game as much as a toolkit for making games. rubenwardy: that's exactly what it is 06F​lamore: Of course, just download MineClone sub-game or something. tango_: wow forum definitely needs a little push tango_: is it hosted on raspi with a 56K modem connection in celeron55 basement? ;-) tango_: joking aside, is there anything we can do to help with its slowness? MinetestBot: Miniontoby: Jan-03 16:00 UTC https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server in minetest.conf set server_announce to true Miniontoby: !tell SwissalpS I did set it to true MinetestBot: Miniontoby: yeah, sure, whatever Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org -p 30001 MinetestBot: ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2) (file "/home/sfan5/mtbot/modules/serverup.py", line 48, in serverup) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up 198.251.89.91:30001 MinetestBot: 198.251.89.91:30001 is up (14ms) Miniontoby: !up grape.ircnow.org:30001 MinetestBot: grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up -noipv6 minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 MinetestBot: ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2) (file "/home/sfan5/mtbot/modules/serverup.py", line 48, in serverup) Miniontoby: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md Miniontoby: !server minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: Miniontoby: No results Miniontoby: !server addr:minetest.grape.ircnow.org MinetestBot: Miniontoby: No results Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 40000 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: hmmm Miniontoby: Hey guys my servers arent listed at servers.minetest.net Miniontoby: but server_announce is true Miniontoby: server_announce = true Miniontoby: but nothing shows up Miniontoby: and i saw forum with enabling curl in build and i did that but nothing helped Miniontoby: has someone an idea Miniontoby: and it looks like the pf doesnt block it Miniontoby: Hi Miniontoby: Jhalman: can you help maybe? Jhalman: Whats up Miniontoby Miniontoby: yo Miniontoby: i need help Jhalman: yeah Jhalman: what with? Miniontoby: server_announce = true, but nothing comes at the server list Miniontoby: firewall not blocks anything it looks like as far as i can see Miniontoby: have you got idea Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up 198.251.89.91:30001 MinetestBot: 198.251.89.91:30001 is up (14ms) sfan5: we've had this before, your server is not reachable via IPv6 so it doesn't appear Jhalman: cant servers be IPV4 only? sfan5: either remove the IPv6 address from your domain or fix IPv6 Miniontoby: ye but the 40001 should be on ipv6 sfan5: the port has to be identical Miniontoby: ipv6_server = true Miniontoby: at 40001 Miniontoby: !up 198.251.89.91:40001 MinetestBot: 198.251.89.91:40001 is up (14ms) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: i think my ipv6 is messed up Miniontoby: but yeah Miniontoby: the original is the same as the minetest one Miniontoby: but yeha Miniontoby: it cant be found in server list Miniontoby: it cant be found in server list Miniontoby: im away MinetestBot: SwissalpS: Jan-05 13:36 UTC I did set it to true Miniontoby: has any an idea?? Miniontoby: I was just away getting break Miniontoby: the issue is that my public servers aren´t in the server list Krock: do the logs say "announcing to server list"? Miniontoby: kinda, i will show you Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 07:35:35: ACTION[Server]: Announcing start to servers.minetest.net Miniontoby: .__ __ __ Miniontoby: _____ |__| ____ _____/ |_ ____ _______/ |_ Miniontoby: / \| |/ \_/ __ \ __\/ __ \ / ___/\ __\ Miniontoby: | Y Y \ | | \ ___/| | \ ___/ \___ \ | | Miniontoby: |__|_| /__|___| /\___ >__| \___ >____ > |__| Miniontoby: \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 07:35:35: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/Miniontoby/minetest/worlds/first] Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 07:35:35: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 198.251.89.91:30001. Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 07:35:35: ACTION[Server]: IRC: Connected! Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 07:35:35: ACTION[Server]: IRC CHAT: -!- GrapeMt5-30001 joined #minetest Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 07:35:35: ACTION[Server]: Announcing start to servers.minetest.net Miniontoby: only start Krock: dude seriously Miniontoby: what? Krock: please use a paste service next time Miniontoby: SRY Krock: however, this looks good Miniontoby: but nothing happens Krock: !up 198.251.89.91:30001 MinetestBot: 198.251.89.91:30001 is up (14ms) Miniontoby: !server address:198.251.89.91 port:30001 MinetestBot: Miniontoby: No results Krock: how about the domain you specified? is that one reachable? Miniontoby: nsd Miniontoby: reverse dns Miniontoby: minetest.grape.ircnow.org Krock: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: is the dns record Miniontoby: ipv6 problems and else ipv6 not at port 3000* Miniontoby: only ipv6 at 4000* Krock: so if you've specified this domain in minetest.conf, then the serverlist will attempt to connect there and fail Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: oh Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: but try to dig it Miniontoby: or use host Krock: otherwise you need to remove the domain setting or change it to your IP Miniontoby: grape:~ $ host minetest.grape.ircnow.org Miniontoby: minetest.grape.ircnow.org has address 198.251.89.91 Miniontoby: minetest.grape.ircnow.org has IPv6 address 2605:6400:30:faa1:: Miniontoby: grape:~ $ Miniontoby: hmmm Krock: PS: MinetestBot also works in /query if you want to debug it Miniontoby: ik Miniontoby: got any ideas?? BuckarooBanzai: Miniontoby: has your internal server even an ipv6 address? Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: its an buyvm vps Miniontoby: with ipv6 Krock: if you want to use IPv4, either specify no IP address or your IPv6 one in minetest.conf BuckarooBanzai: and you forwarded to that too? Miniontoby: but the ipv6 is set to it Krock: s/v4/v6/ Miniontoby: is the same as the vps one Miniontoby: i set ipv6_server = true Miniontoby: at the 40001 Miniontoby: server_address = minetest.grape.ircnow.org Miniontoby: bind_address = minetest.grape.ircnow.org Miniontoby: server_url = https://minetest.grape.ircnow.org/ Miniontoby: server_announce = true Miniontoby: s yeah Miniontoby: idk Krock: what if you remove bind_address? Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: restarted BuckarooBanzai: oh, you are trying to make yet another minetest hosting? ;) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 Krock: with some luck it will listen to 0.0.0.0:PORT which should include IPv4 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Krock: and IPv6 Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 08:56:28: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on :::40001. Krock: ah yes that looks much better Miniontoby: i though it should be ::1:40001 Krock: should be fine. 0.0.0.0 on IPv4 works too, so *shrug* Krock: now you need to check your vps' firewall settings for IPv6 and ensure that the DNS record is correct Miniontoby: at the non ipv6 Miniontoby: 2021-01-05 08:58:20: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30001. Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 30001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:30001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Krock: but the IP address is reachable Miniontoby: its exactly the same as the vps one Miniontoby: so ye Krock: !up 2605:6400:30:faa1:: 40001 MinetestBot: [2605:6400:30:faa1::]:40001 seems to be down BuckarooBanzai: Miniontoby: what does "netstat -pan | grep 40001" tell you? Miniontoby: netstat: an: unknown protocol Miniontoby: its openbsd not linux BuckarooBanzai: ah... Miniontoby: netstat -P pcbaddr [-v] [-M core] [-N system] Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: i can put it into paste Miniontoby: https://paste.ircnow.org/paste/bd9jen1u87v6 Miniontoby: here BuckarooBanzai: your website is reachable via ipv6, maybe some issue with udp/tcp in the forwarding/firewall rules? Miniontoby: maybe but i can join the world sfan5: I remember last time we already determined that it was the firewall Miniontoby: !up 198.251.89.91:30001 MinetestBot: 198.251.89.91:30001 is up (18ms) Miniontoby: !up 198.251.89.91:40001 MinetestBot: 198.251.89.91:40001 seems to be down Miniontoby: !up 198.251.89.91:30002 MinetestBot: 198.251.89.91:30002 is up (14ms) Miniontoby: yes but that was on other vps Miniontoby: and as far as i can see the logs it doesnt say a block BuckarooBanzai: try to join with the ipv6 ip directly... BuckarooBanzai: (not with the dns name) Miniontoby: doesnt work Miniontoby: !up 2605:6400:30:faa1:: 40001 MinetestBot: [2605:6400:30:faa1::]:40001 seems to be down Miniontoby: block drop quick proto udp from any to port 1337 BuckarooBanzai: whats your firewall btw? Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: pf Miniontoby: !up 2605:6400:30:faa1:: 40001 MinetestBot: [2605:6400:30:faa1::]:40001 seems to be down Miniontoby: !up 2605:6400:30:faa1:: 40001 Miniontoby: !up 2605:6400:30:faa1:: 40001 MinetestBot: [2605:6400:30:faa1::]:40001 seems to be down Miniontoby: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/ BuckarooBanzai: are you even changing something before you re-test again? :P Miniontoby: i restarted it Miniontoby: then tested it Miniontoby: but wanted sureance that it was cooreect BuckarooBanzai: the problem seems to be on your machine or the firewall before that, i think you need to read-up on the netbsd networking tools :D BuckarooBanzai: *openbsd Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: !up 2605:6400:30:faa1:: 40001 MinetestBot: [2605:6400:30:faa1::]:40001 seems to be down Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: hmmm Miniontoby: while pf down Miniontoby: still Miniontoby: !up minetest.grape.ircnow.org 40001 MinetestBot: minetest.grape.ircnow.org:40001 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up 2605:6400:30:faa1:: 40001 MinetestBot: [2605:6400:30:faa1::]:40001 seems to be down Miniontoby: will see later on Miniontoby: let me get my bnc here MiniontobyPI: im Miniontoby okami61: hi 11J​onathon: hello okami61: im new to the irc 11J​onathon: welcome them okami61: thanks :) okami61: ^_^ okami61: how are you? okami61: im good swift110: hey all ryzendar: http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Rat What happened to rats? I can't use `/giveme rat` command ryzendar: "Cannot give an unknown item" rubenwardy: they were removed from Minetest 7 years ago Corey[m]: "This article is about outdated features that have been removed.", I think the article itself explained it rubenwardy: Minetest is now all about modding and custom games, you can install a mobs mod 11J​onathon: 1. the wiki is out of date 1a. that doesnt exist anymore 2. you need /giveme modname:item normally Corey[m]: hi rubenwardy rubenwardy: also, that's the wrong website. It's an outdated fan website rubenwardy: Minetest's wiki is wiki.minetest.net rubenwardy: .net, not .com 06F​lamore: I wonder why mobs got removed rubenwardy: they weren't very good 06F​lamore: Neither are all. ryzendar: Is there a way I can hold down the left mouse button but instead of it being a single mousedown, it repeatedly triggers complete mouse clicks repeatedly until I let go? 04o​neplustwo: >autoclicker ryzendar: thanks 04o​neplustwo: disclaimer: usually not allowed in servers ryzendar: Why does https://wiki.minetest.net/Player at bottom show See also: link to Skin, which doesn't exist anymore? ryzendar: Also, how do you change the skin of the player? 12W​arr1024: Install a skin mod spoing: Hi, In my inventory bar I only ever see one timber item - no matter how many trees I chop. I doubt this is intended but having trouble working out wher to begin debugging. spoing: I'm using the Minetest Project Docker image ver 5.3.0. I have installed the unified_inventory mod and still see this bahavior. spoing: Appreciate any hints or tips. 06F​lamore: Lag perhaps? sfan5: uhh sfan5: spoing: you have creative mode enabled either for yourself or globally sfan5: a common mistake is to do /grantme all, which will also grant you "creative" sfan5: if that is the case you can undo it using /revokeme creative spoing: sfan5, thanks I'll check that now. 06F​lamore: Yeah that makes more sense spoing: Do I need to restart the server to have such a change take effect? sfan5: if you do something by editing a file, definitely spoing: hmm, createive_mode was false in world.mt. Where else could it be set? sfan5: did you try /revokeme creative in chat? spoing: Yes that had no effect. and I don't believe I had done /grantme all or some such. spoing: I found a setting in minetest.conf sfan5: it could potentially be a mod doing this, dunno sfan5: restart just in case spoing: Thanks sfan5 that was it. rebooted the server and tree chopping increments the counter. spoing: :) Fleckenstein: Does anybody know a Free Minecraft Sound pack (I need some sounds for MineClone2 development)? 06F​lamore: Pretty sure you can't use minecraft assets. sfan5: a sound pack under a free license would presumably not include proprietary (original) minecraft assets tpanmajia: clean room development tpanmajia: might as well not anger c418 09s​rinivas: Is it possible for minetest to detect window size? And can it be sent to the server? So formspecs can be better optimized for mobile? tango_: no tango_: (that I know) tango_: anyway, gave a look at nodecore tango_: interesting approach 08a​ppguru: @srinivas : see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7658 09s​rinivas: Oh, i see, thanks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentDB: Add overwrite dialog when content is already installed (#1… 13edd0836 https://git.io/JLFSH (152021-01-04T15:18:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update Gitlab-CI pipeline 13e663aec https://git.io/JLF9m (152021-01-04T15:29:25Z) Wuzzy: How do you drop item on android? Krock: open inventory and drag it outside? 08a​ppguru: 3 dots -> item drop icon iirc MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: refacto: factorize multiple code parts from guiEditbox childs (#10782) 1358a7090 https://git.io/JLbvW (152021-01-04T19:19:20Z) kaizak: Hey, anyone done updates for Apple Silicon ? kaizak: Undefined symbols for architecture arm64: "_png_init_filter_functions_neon", referenced from: _png_read_filter_row in libIrrlicht.a(pngrutil.o)ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture arm64 Krock: Hello. Did you check whether Irrlicht is using the correct libpng version? Krock: respectively whether the right version is installed kaizak: think I'll need to download manually from homebrew. let me give that a bash Krock: although that should happen automatically when installing the development package in a sane package manager kaizak: yeah I was expecting brew to sort out the dependacies for me kaizak: yeah I was expecting brew to sort out the dependancies for me Krock: dependencies kaizak: brew install --build-from-source minetest kaizak: thanks for the schooling ;-) Krock: heh np. keep in mind that it might also be a packaging bug, where someone made a mistake when setting up the dependency list. though that's nothing a CLI command couldn't fix manually sfan5: irrlicht might have its own internal png version, no idea of homebrew sorted that out Krock: right. Krock: also an internal jpeg library sfan5: and zlib and bzip2 too sfan5: it's sort of a mess, this fork has the bundled libs removed https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht sfan5: but no idea if/how it builds on mac kaizak1: looks like minetest sources dont use the preinstalled versions. Or I need to setup something else to tell the makefiles to use existing installation of packagesI've installed all the packages form here https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/minetest#defaultbut still get the same error.maybe I'm installing it using the wrong strategy ? kaizak1: brew install minetestError: minetest: no bottle available!This is why I am building form sources. kaizak1: anyone know if LD_LIBRARY_PATH or such things matter in the minetest installations ? kaizak1: nm -a /opt/homebrew/lib/libIrrlicht.a this prints out the usual stuff kaizak1: Undefined symbols for architecture arm64: "_png_init_filter_functions_neon", referenced from: _png_read_filter_row in libIrrlicht.a(pngrutil.o)ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture arm64 sfan5: sounds like you need to figure how to build irrlicht correct first kaizak1: iirlicht is installed and I can nm prints out things which suggest it is readable/usable sfan5: see if you can patch out the code that calls png_init_filter_functions_neon (this func should have a C fallback) kaizak1: its my first time using homebrew. I normally use linux system. Does anyone know what "no bottle avaiable" means ? sfan5: I have very few experience with brew but to my experience that means no downloadable binary is available and you have to build from source sfan5: to my understanding* sfan5: maybe I should proofread my texts.. kaizak1: alrighty. looks like I'll need to work through using sources and seeing if I can hack the makefiles or the C-files. As I have no idea what the src code does I'd prefer to hack around makefiles and env vars :-) kaizak1: oh my word I feel so stooopid sometimes. kaizak1: downloaded zip and it just worked. can someone update the install instructions telling folks to ignore all the homebrew steps kaizak1: dont know if by installing all the packages and then downloading made any difference. But I do feel like a right plonker for not trying the direct approach first sfan5: uh sfan5: chances are they downloaded a x86 build of minetest which will run slower than native on ARM sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gustavo6046: Hello! Gustavo6046: I have Minetest version 5.4.0-dev-6d7067fd3, yet xdecor complains that my "Minetest client is too old to run this mod. Disabling." Gustavo6046: Could it be an issue parsing this version string? Gustavo6046: Also, a bunch of mods can be updated -- how can I update all at once? Gustavo6046: Oh 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Well i assume its actually an issue of minetest being too new... Gustavo6046: :P Gustavo6046: Does techpack override technic? Gustavo6046: Or just pipeworks? Gustavo6046: Wait, that's kind of a blunt way to put it, now that I think about it. Imagine if someone came up to you and said your mod was overriden! Gustavo6046: VanessaE: pipeworks for life :D sproing: Trying to configure a server for my family - using the Minetest Project docker image. Having trouble working out how to stop the game (minetest extended) overwriting the world seed value that I set in map_meta.txt. sproing: I've worked out the heirachy as: /etc/minetest/minetest.conf: map_dir -> points to world folder. In world folder world.mt:gameid -> give game name which must exist in /var/lib/minetest/.minetest/games/. sproing: However it appears the game *overwrites* some files in the world folder, sepecifically map_meta.txt sproing: Is there a way to stop the Minetest extended game overwriting the map_meta.tx file? If not is there a way to specify the values the game must use when it creates map_meta.txt? sproing: worked it out :) algun: Hi. WorldEdit question: What's the difference between we, wem and mts files? Krock: we is world-edit specific Krock: wem ??? Krock: mts is Minetest Schematic Krock: ^ for use with minetest.place_schematic algun: ok thanks algun: While I'm here, could you suggest a we with a very small and simple (few materials) build? submariner: can I ask about digilines here ? 06F​lamore: yup Miniontoby: Hi Miniontoby: Can i get help? mzf53: hi mzf53: with what? Miniontoby: Im hosting minetest srevers Miniontoby: and i want to put an list of my servers mzf53: no i have Miniontoby: from servers.minetest.net Miniontoby: on it mzf53: what? i can host Miniontoby: is there an api to get all servers from 1 hostname Miniontoby: just inside an iframe Miniontoby: check my forum page Miniontoby: check my forum toic Miniontoby: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25933 mzf53: you can Miniontoby: but how? SwissalpS: !tell Miniontoby https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server in minetest.conf set server_announce to true MinetestBot: SwissalpS: I'll pass that on when Miniontoby is around Gustavo6046: I feel like the hudbars background is not dark enough. It has to be darker, I can barely read the text on them if, say, I'm walking on a beach! Gustavo6046: It might also be transparency (alpha too low). * tango_: is not happy with the existing teleporter mods 8-/ SwissalpS: tango_ what is it that makes you unhappy? tango_: SwissalpS: each one for a different reason tango_: SwissalpS: one has the issue of having to input coordinates by hand tango_: SwissalpS: the other has the issue of being extremely expensive because of the short range 06F​lamore: Travelnet gets the job done easily 06F​lamore: Or stuff like /tpa tango_: SwissalpS: and the one that teleports you away if you punch a gold/mese block combo has the issue of teleporting you to wherever 06F​lamore: Or stuff like /tpa tango_: let me check out travelnet tango_: oh travelnet does look like what I was looking for, from the description SwissalpS: you can override the range of telemosaics to make them more useable tango_: we really need a way to do vector graphics tango_: even if irrlicht doesn't support it natively tango_: can't we pass it some pre-rendered image? tango_: like lunasvg SwissalpS: using mobs_redo, whenever a mob is caught, "default_place_node_hard" is played. problem is, every player on server can hear it SwissalpS: any suggestions how to fix this that will not break at every update? sfan5: get the mobs_redo author to fix it sfan5: if you get your mods with git you can also make a local commit and "git pull" will preserve your changes SwissalpS: the sound file is from default mod in minetest_game SwissalpS: thanks sfan5 sfan5: the sound file isn't the issue, when playing it the author forgot to specify either a position or a player SwissalpS: he uses the same function to play all other sounds, and they are not heard globally SwissalpS: mobs/api.lua line 167 SwissalpS: the object is the mob SwissalpS: We have also tested different mobs, it is not specific to a single type sfan5: !mod mobs_redo MinetestBot: sfan5: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo I_am_6r1d: was distance mentioned? I suspect it a bit. Hello. sfan5: hm right sfan5: the sound is played attached to the mob object I_am_6r1d: I can try and print the distance now sfan5: SwissalpS: I suspect the bug here is that the sound is played after the mob is already removed hence it plays globally sfan5: (the code link https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo/src/master/api.lua#L167) I_am_6r1d: Hm... self:mob_sound("default_place_node_hard") and then remove_mob(self, true) I_am_6r1d: if it's async, that's very possible SwissalpS: thanks sfan5, I'll PR a change to that, seems logical line 4508 plays sound and line 4506 removed mob a/ready SwissalpS: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo/pulls/80 SwissalpS: !done MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Add on_deactivate callback for luaentities (#10723) 13dd5a732 https://git.io/JL5wr (152021-01-02T14:14:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04OgelGames -> 03minetest/minetest: Clarify documentation of minetest.get_modpath and minetest.get_modnam… 13ad58fb2 https://git.io/JL5wo (152021-01-02T14:13:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: "Browse online content" formspec improvement (#10756) 1392aac69 https://git.io/JL5wK (152021-01-02T14:13:02Z) tango_: anybody wants to give my prospector mod a spin before I submit it to the forum? https://github.com/Oblomov/minetest-mod-prospector zughy[m]: is there a way to deny a player to open a formspec assigned to a node (via metadata)? sfan5: no sfan5: your only option is to move the formspec to a lua handler zughy[m]: or, in general, to execute different things on `on_rightclick` instead of displaying the formspec? sfan5: well actually maybe on_rightclick can deny it? sfan5: I think that was changed at some point zughy[m]: ...I'm stil waiting for the day where I find a mod that I don't need to modify (ChatCmdBuilder aside) rubenwardy: I answered on matrix: You'll need to use on_rightclick and show_formspec / formspec in meta data only exists to reduce server-client latency 08a​ppguru: Formspec in metadata should be used sparingly zughy[m]: Apparently my client is skipping messages on Matrix too, great 09s​rinivas: Hi, is the json created by minetest really valid json? 09s​rinivas: I ask because python's jsson parser did not like it at all 08a​ppguru: @srinivas provide the JSON please 08a​ppguru: the json created by minetest should be valid, yes 09s​rinivas: its a large filee 09s​rinivas: moment 08a​ppguru: upload 09s​rinivas: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/794367691330551839/areas.dat 08a​ppguru: why .dat and not .json ? 08a​ppguru: You didn't use minetest.write_json, you used minetest.serialize 08a​ppguru: !next 09s​rinivas: oh 09s​rinivas: damn 09s​rinivas: ty 08a​ppguru: should be .lua then BTW 09s​rinivas: mhm 09s​rinivas: is there any way i can load it outside of minetest though> 08a​ppguru: yeah ofc 08a​ppguru: it's lua 09s​rinivas: ty submariner: happy new year ghoti: Happy new year, folks! I asked last week about how to configure a reduced frame rate in order to hopefully reduce CPU usage for MT on macos. I was told to search the settings for "fps" and/or "vsync". I see how fps works and that's great, but how would turning off vsync help? Anything else I can do? vals_: happy new year everybody! vals_: is paramat still gatekeeping improvements to MTG? 8-D vals_: argh, nick tango_ vals_: ehm Krock: ghoti: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L726-L729 Krock: also https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L682-L685 Krock: those settings can be found in Main menu / Settings tango_: hm is there a way in lua to tell how many parameters a function expects? Krock: how is Lua supposed to know that? Krock: you can pass as many you want, and as few you want Krock: to capture all passed parameters, you can use {...} inside the function to put everything into a table which then can be used to get the length tango_: Krock: lua knows how many params were declared in the function declaration tango_: and the debug module exposes this information, but apparently not plain lua 8-/ Krock: ah right. I see what you mean Krock: though debug.* functions should be available in the secure environment tango_: too much effort in this case, I'll do it a different way tango_: hm is there a way to combine textures by resizing and shifting them? tango_: I want to place a small binoculars inside the mapper kit tango_: but this doesn't work: inventory_image = "map_mapping_kit.png^[combine:16x16:4,4=binoculars_binoculars.png\^[resize:8x8", tango_: (invalid escape sequence) Krock: you need to escape like this: \\^\\[ tango_: oh tango_: duh the \ needs to be escaped itself tango_: ok now at least it doesn't fail 8-) tango_: buuut I can't see the overlay 8-/ Krock: well then, escape \\: in resize tango_: ooooh nice tango_: Krock: thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! tango_: in fact, ^ and : but no [ are what need escaping 8-) hecks: What's the best way to delete a list from an InvRef? tango_: damn I need a good pixel art editor for linux 08a​ppguru: hecks: set_size(listname, 0) I'd say Krock: tango_: gimp tango_: Krock: meeeeh Krock: wine mspaint.exe tango_: lol 08a​ppguru: kolourpaint tango_: wow I really suck at art anyway tango_: appguru: lemme see tango_: appguru: ah I think I tried that already tango_: the bigget problem with all these programs is that they don't solve the fundamental issue that I can't draw for shit 8-P deltanedas: could anyone take a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10765 tango_: hm I strongly suspect moreores needs to be updated following mtg's introduction of tin dalz: the docs say there's no method to check an objectref's validity, but i'm pretty sure there's no other way to do what i'm after. i'm trying to reimplement psi (a minecraft mod to create spells through simple visual programming), and there a spell execution may be delayed, so that for example at the time of casting the object the player is looking at is stored and 10 seconds later moved a certain dalz: distance dalz: in that case i'd need to know if the object still exists sfan5: yeah I don't see any other way there either dalz: do i have to give up the ability to delay, or is there some secret trick i shouldn't know to test objectrefs anyway? sfan5: "there is no method to text validity" means method in the API sense, there still is a way sfan5: test* sfan5: you could e.g. get_yaw() ~= nil as the yaw always exists when the object is in a valid state dalz: cool, i'll use that then thanks tango_: is there a way to temporarily override an attribute (color, brightness, etc) of a single node? tango_: (not a node type) sfan5: no sfan5: best bet if you really really need to do this is an entity tango_: sfan5: that won't do. the idea was to give the user a general idea of the direction in which something could be found tango_: as in highlighting the nodes in that direction tango_: hm tango_: can entities occupy the same space as a solid node? tango_: I really need to read up on entities sfan5: yes tango_: so I could have something like an arrow pointing to the proposed direction 08a​ppguru: yes sutre 08a​ppguru: sure* tango_: and remove it in a timer and/or on server close tango_: can entities glow? tango_: (not illuminate the surroundings, just glow) Krock: yes. use "glow" property tango_: or maybe the particles mechanism would do MinetestBot: 02[git] 04kilbith -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspecs: Fix broken texture escaping with model[] 13ff921f6 https://git.io/JL7XO (152021-01-01T16:03:34Z) sfan5: particles can glow too tango_: and I think they're the most appropriate in this case tango_: I'll try to work on that search_social: i know how to make a ramp but it just acts like a normal block when people stand on it; is there any way to make a ramp that will act like a slide that people slide down? maxmonamour: Does anyone know of an example of billboarding being used by a mod in Minetest? search_social: what is "billboarding" 08a​ppguru: > Noun. billboarding (uncountable) (computer graphics) A technique in three-dimensional graphics in which a sprite is rendered perpendicular to the camera without respect to camera movement. Early first-person shooter games used billboarding for enemies rather than full character models. This is effectively what particles / sprite drawtype are. search_social: thanks maxmonamour: Y maxmonamour: Oops, yeah*. Basically a flat texture that always faces camera, with no 3d geometry. Specifically something that is supposed to be part of the world, not the UI search_social: but not the sky? search_social: the sun and moon in the sky do it search_social: and there's mods that change the sun and moon search_social: and the sky for that matter 08a​ppguru: search_social: no 08a​ppguru: well... sun and moon might actually be using billboarding, but they are exceptions maxmonamour: yeah I kind of assumed that those examples might be operating in a different context or they might be modeled. maxmonamour: either way i figured that it'd be more productive if i could find an example of nodes or entities being implemented with nothing beyond a billboarded graphic than try to figure out how to use that code, if it is in fact using billboarding 08a​ppguru: https://forum.minetest.net/download/file.php?mode=view&id=5813&sid=ad4c0a3176e96c801c1200bb7ecb39fd 08a​ppguru: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14432 pretty old 06F​lamore: Billboard sprites are cool 08a​ppguru: meh 08a​ppguru: the player actually defaults to a billboard sprite 06F​lamore: IK 06F​lamore: That green wizard looking thing maxmonamour: wait, by default in minetest the player shows as a billboarded sprite? is that from the engine or Minetest game or??? sfan5: the engine maxmonamour: Welp. I've never even seen that 06F​lamore: Because most games use the 3d model maxmonamour: Hmm. I have seen this before. This isn't billboarded, though, this is a 2D texture applied to a plane, it appears maxmonamour: (I guess "2D texture" is redundant) 08a​ppguru: ah yes, it is sfan5: yea it's not billboard 08a​ppguru: it is drawtype = "upright_sprite" 08a​ppguru: billboarded would be drawtype = "sprite" maxmonamour: ahhhhh! i'll take a look at that. thanks! search_social: appguru: do you know a way for me to change a .png file into a minetest build? 08a​ppguru: "change a .png file into a minetest build?" ? 08a​ppguru: you mean changing the base textures? 08a​ppguru: base textures are in /textures/base/pack search_social: like if it's a 256x256 .png file it becomes a 256 block by 256 block build maxmonamour: if you have a standalone texture you can basically just throw it in the game and use it. or if youre trying to replace a mods existing texture you can do the same 08a​ppguru: ahhhh maxmonamour: oh 08a​ppguru: Well, I wrote a mod which can do that: https://content.minetest.net/packages/LMD/voxelizer/ It is quite an overcomplication though, so I'd recommend you to go with something like: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20411 search_social: hmm i said /vox model world-map.png then /vox 1 and /vox 2 and it crashed 08a​ppguru: yeah because /vox model expects an obj model 08a​ppguru: you'd have to get a plane model, then do /vox model plane.obj and /vox texture world-map.png and finally /vox place or /vox 1 and /vox 2 search_social: okay i made a blank model in blender and it's just a cube and i exported it as a .obj file but it has "vn" lines instead of "vt" lines maxmonamour: what would be the most effective way to change all players collision sizes down to 1x1 node in a new game? i presume that the first person camera will be somewhere else maxmonamour: right now i'm using a copy of devtest 08a​ppguru: here's plane.obj 08a​ppguru: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/794653484153962556/plane.obj 08a​ppguru: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/794653484153962556/plane.obj search_social: thanks search_social: idk it makes a weird house shape search_social: and i can't seem to recognize the .png on it search_social: https://0x0.st/-rd9.png search_social: the /texture is https://0x0.st/iRxa.png 08a​ppguru: oof I messed it up 08a​ppguru: use this one search_social 08a​ppguru: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/794657912219762708/plane.obj 08a​ppguru: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/794657912219762708/plane.obj 08a​ppguru: well, i get a similar thing - reason being the high resolution of the texture - voxelizer doesn't apply proper filtering 08a​ppguru: you should probably use imaging, it's more suitable for this specific thing: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20411 search_social: if i say /vox place [scale] with the exact right argument to scale will it work? search_social: or if i convert the picture to a .bmp myself 08a​ppguru: if you scale it yourself to the scale you want it will work 08a​ppguru: but as said, I strongly advise you to use imaging for now search_social: thanks search_social: imaging worked search_social: https://0x0.st/-rnK.png tango_: I'm not sure I understand the minvel/maxvel for particles tango_: what's the unit of measurements? tango_: blocks/seconds? tango_: nodes/second? 10J​ordach: in blocks/nodes/meters 10J​ordach: all the same values tango_: hm apparently the vel and acc is fixed at creation time tango_: so one cannot do a particle with a “noisy” motion search_social: topo map https://0x0.st/-r5c.png 05e​xe_virus: Hey I have a solution for the bounding box problem already implemented, currently putting it through it's paces and then doing a forum and content DB release. It's ready to go though: https://github.com/ExeVirus/autobox https://github.com/ExeVirus/boxgen Boxgen takes in any .obj file and let's you generate bounding boxes for it. If it's too large, it's breaks it up into children nodes to represent the extra collision boxes. MTDiscord: See the example.lua file in autobox for how it works. @Andrey01 05e​xe_virus: Boxgen has a fully finished wiki as of last week, it'll explain 99.9% of all of it. 05e​xe_virus: Autobox doesn't have it finished yet, but the example basically days it all haha 05e​xe_virus: The reason for the collision box limit is due to performance reasons. it's small to allow for less search time by the collision algo, which is using linear search deltanedas[m]: is there an easy way to rotate an entity by a nodes facedir? deltanedas[m]: trying to get my covers mod to work with screwdriver deltanedas[m]: could i facedir_to_dir(param2) and use that? tango_: deltanedas[m]: screwdriver just cycles through param2 tango_: so I don't get the question deltanedas[m]: yes but its for an entity so i dont have param2, i only have get_rotation() tango_: ah never handled entities, sorry tango_: missed that it was for an entity on first read, actually 8-) tango_: is it possible for a dungeon to have on chest? specing: Hmm? tango_: no chest search_social: Hello, I have a problem with people killing each other's petz; I'm looking for a basic way to make a pet invincible. I can make a lua edit in the petz mod somewhere i think they are called "entities" or something I"m just wondering how to make them invincible (to punches) aldum: isn't there canTakeDamage variable or similar? search_social: okay find petz -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -i damage showed some stuff, i will find it there, thank you! Sokomine: day changed to 01 jan 2021: happy new year! Peppy: Happy new year Sokomine ! Peppy: Happy new year everybody ! Sokomine: to you as well :-) AspireMint: Can anyone, please, how function minetest.node_dig(pos, node, digger) works? I mean, if i use it in function on_punch, it removes that node and add it to players inventory. BUT if i use it inside of on_rightclick function then there are 3 possible situations! (1) If your inventory is empty, it will remove node, nothing is added to inventory. (2) if your inventory contains at least 1 item(any type) it will remove node and add it to AspireMint: inventory. (3) if wielded item is mymode:item, then it will remove node, nothing is added to inventory. AspireMint: can anyone please explain* how.. sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9190 sfan5: you're hitting this bug AspireMint: oh, okay, thank you! rubenwardy: big_caballito[m]: you can probably just edit client/shaders rubenwardy: It does depend on if you need more constants from the engine rubenwardy: Or if you need to do post processing rubenwardy: Both of those require C++ changes big_caballito[m]: Thanks 👍️ deltanedas: am i correct in assuming that the only way to have a 3D item is with a node, overriding on_place? Krock: mesh node deltanedas: ahem 05e​xe_virus: Use default:apple for a good example IvanGorinich: Hello all! I have good idea for server - Full RolePlay server with realistic economic system Krock: good idea. IvanGorinich: I would love to do it, but I have nowhere to host it IvanGorinich: I wanna ask - who can IvanGorinich: allocate some resources for me Krock: there are numerous VPS host offerings out there. from raspberry-pi specifications to fullfledged enterprise servers IvanGorinich: I have no money and my provider does not give out static IP or ipv6 Krock: those who host servers already use it for their own plans. you'll need a lot of luck to find volunteers Krock: though you could look for a similar server and post recommendations there (forums) IvanGorinich: Yes - I'm trying to find him in IRC MinetestBot: 02[git] 04luk3yx -> 03minetest/serverlist: Replace "master server" with "serverlist" in README.md (#43) 13a5bc675 https://git.io/JLH9V (152020-12-30T15:27:11Z) Andrey01: hello Andrey01: does the engine have a restriction in bounding box size? Or can it expand up to the world borders? sfan5: bounding box of what Andrey01: well, of entities or nodes Andrey01: how far can it expand? sfan5: Andrey01: I believe the limit for collision boxes is about 1.4 Krock: nodes is documented, entities is pretty much guessed sfan5: should be somewhere in lua_api.txt (or maybe not yet?) but I can't find it Andrey01: what does '1.4' mean? Andrey01: 1400 nodes? sfan5: your node's collision box cannot be bigger than 1.4 in any direction from its central point Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1250-L1252 Andrey01: ah, 1.4 node, so a little bit Andrey01: Actually it is possible to set the collision box larger, just it will get penetrable hecks: What an odd limit, what's the reason for it? * Krock: dodges and runs Learning_CSharp: Cool! A minetest irc! Learning_CSharp: seems dead tho Learning_CSharp: REALLY dead 11J​onathon: Not really Learning_CSharp: oh hi 11J​onathon: See irc.minetest.net 11J​onathon: For logs Learning_CSharp: kk Learning_CSharp: oh Learning_CSharp: ok 11J​onathon: Its decently active, maybe less so than here Learning_CSharp: ok specing: you are dead Learning_CSharp: :) Learning_CSharp: sure Learning_CSharp: Hello olliy olliy: hello Learning_CSharp: how are you? olliy: i'm good, you? Learning_CSharp: good too Learning_CSharp: thanks Learning_CSharp: :] Learning_CSharp: =# Learning_CSharp: D: Learning_CSharp: hi Learning_CSharp: hi iamweasel: 9hi tango_: I'm curious about the predominant timezone on this channel tango_: anyway, vertical travel in MTG is horribly slow tango_: are steel ladders faster than wood ladders? or the same? IvanGorinich: Hello - can i use ipv6 to my server ? Calinou: anyway, vertical travel in MTG is horribly slow Calinou: have you tried sneak glitch ladders? I don't remember if they're fixed by default now Calinou: otherwise, a 1:1 staircase is the fastest way to move upwards (probably faster than a ladder) tango_: Calinou: iirc sneak ladders have been fixed tango_: staircases are faster than ladders? really? Calinou: they might be, it's worth testing tango_: what about the water elevator? tango_: as in swimming upwards in a column of water Calinou: that's quite slow, likely slower than a ladder Calinou: unless you can use fast mode of course specing: tango_: horribly slow? Try vertical climbing that fast in real life tango_: specing: try punching down a tree with your bare hands in real life specing: yep... tango_: Calinou: uff tango_: other question: when using the map in MTG survival mode, the underground view is different from the undeground view in creative mode tango_: is that intended? a side effect of something? does the underground/radar view not work in survival? tango_: ah saw the code, it's intentional 06F​lamore: It could've been used to look for caves and dungeons, so that's s reason. tango_: flamore: gotcha. still, having a manufacturable radar to work like the mapping kit and the binoculars would be nice tango_: but of course now the game is frozen so blah blah blah tango_: 8-/ luizrpgluiz: hi :) luizrpgluiz: how do I program a simple tree in Minetest and generate it via LUA? 06F​lamore: You mean procedurally or predefined trees? 12W​arr1024: local tree = {left = {}, right = {}} and expand from there. luizrpgluiz: predefined trees 08a​ppguru: ~api l-system deltanedas: do objectref:set_velocity etc functions need to take a new table as an argument or can i reuse on deltanedas: one* sfan5: it just needs to be table, no matter where it comes from deltanedas: ok cool, cleared one reason why my elevator is going to the moon luizrpgluiz: is it possible to create a simple tree directly in LUA and load the .lua as if it were schematics? 12W​arr1024: You can create schematics in lua 12W​arr1024: I do this: https://gitlab.com/sztest/nodecore/-/blob/master/mods/nc_tree/schematic.lua and https://gitlab.com/sztest/nodecore/-/blob/master/mods/nc_api/util_ezschematic.lua 12W​arr1024: A bit of a roundabout way to do it, but it makes aspects easier to maintain in the long run. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EliasFleckenstein03 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add minetest.get_objects_in_area (#10668) 139250b52 https://git.io/JL96U (152020-12-29T15:50:09Z) luizrpgluiz: I have another question, if I am going to create a simple tree using l-system, how would I do to load and generate the l-system tree in the world as in VanessaE's mod? luizrpgluiz: Mais sobre o texto originalÉ necessário fornecer o texto original para ver mais informações sobre a tradução deltanedas: i have an entity moving at 10m/s on the y axis deltanedas: sometimes its position is "stuck" for a second or so deltanedas: is this a known issue? 12W​arr1024: 10m/s is not a magical number, but there are multiple reasons that could cause this luizrpgluiz: I read the l-system api and so far I can't generate the tree in the world while loading the mapgen 12W​arr1024: if you're in multiplayer and the thing appears "stuck" for a bit but them zooms on to catch up, it could be network latency 12W​arr1024: if you're in singleplayer, or if it never does the "catch-up" thing, and it happens every 16m, it could be mapblock loading deltanedas: yep its on SP, doesn't catch up and happens roughly every block deltanedas: is there a way to fix that besides making minetest have a loading screen every time i move ;P 12W​arr1024: Options I can think of are (1) get a faster computer, (2) find any slow mapgen code and fix it, (3) lower the speed of entities so they aren't relativistic, or (4) learn to tolerate it. 12W​arr1024: Usually the cosmic speed limit doesn't kick in for me below 50m/s, and I don't play on anything less than 8 years old, so if you're hitting the barrier at 10 I can't imagine what your setup must be like. big_caballito[m]: is there a way to "plug-in" a shader that I write? big_caballito[m]: like just for my copy, would it appear in the settings menu? big_caballito[m]: or would I have to edit source for that? Krock: need to edit the source so that the new shader is loaded Krock: otherwise modify existing files big_caballito[m]: 👍️ tango_: I really like to build high rather than deep. the problem is that it really shows how inefficient MT at juggling a largish number of blocks 8-/ tango_: Calinou: also I got no answer to this https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/issues/162 should I assume people don't care and I can do whatever I want? 8-D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix item tooltip background color not working 1309d7fbd https://git.io/JLyFF (152020-12-28T12:57:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Display Minetest header when menu_last_game value isn't available any… 1355dba1b https://git.io/JLyFb (152020-12-28T12:56:58Z) tango_: is there a minetest utility function to deep-copy a table? sfan5: table.copy? sfan5: nvm that's not deepcopy tango_: 8-/ sfan5: actually sfan5: it is https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/common/misc_helpers.lua#L477-L486 tango_: uh nice tango_: oh man, recipes have to be “re-reversed” to be fed back 8-/ tango_: this is annoying MinetestBot: 02[git] 04randomMesh -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix boat floating in the air when water being drained away (#2788) 131ade894 https://git.io/JLSU6 (152020-12-28T14:56:04Z) Ingar: whatever floats your boat 06F​lamore: Ba dum tss IvanGorinich: Hi iamweasel: привет, горыныч! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Tyler-2 -> 03minetest/serverlist: doc: Support use of Apache (#40) 13578a7bc https://git.io/JLSZI (152020-12-28T19:06:19Z) AspireMint: Hello, how do i know if player has creative inventory? In new MT there is nice fn minetest.is_creative_enabled(name), but im using 5.2. Is checking for privs "creative" enough? Or is there better way to do it? Krock: creative.is_creative_enabled_for Krock: or similar Krock: if you're not depending on the "creative" mod, then the only option is to check the priv Krock: ^ AspireMint AspireMint: ok, thank you! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! AspireMint: Uhh, is this bug: in api.lua preserve_metadata = function(pos, oldnode, oldmeta, drops) says that oldmeta is "NodeMetaRef". But i get table, i can't call oldmeta:get_int("foobar") AspireMint: oops, wrong api.lua file... it can be different in older MT version... AspireMint: nope, doesnt work in 5.2 and 5.3, it is still table, not meta as expected tango_: I must have pressed something weird because no when swimming forward/backwards and sneak/jump are inverted tango_: what did I do wrong and how do I reset it tango_: is that what pitch move does? tango_: oh yes it is tango_: interesting ItsAMae: Hey, is there any way to require a C lib in a client mod? ItsAMae: I can't request_insecure_environment ItsAMae: I've wanted to write a mumble positional audio mod that's a bit cleaner than reading minetest's stdout from an external program ItsAMae: and if that's not possible have the devs stated if they would be open to adding a trusted mod option for client mods? 06F​lamore: Have you added your mod to the trusted mods variable in your config file? ItsAMae: yeah ItsAMae: the request_insecure_environment function is just nil ItsAMae: (it doesn't return nil, it is nil) ItsAMae: unless I messed up ItsAMae: I'll check 06F​lamore: I thought you spoke of server-side mods, but it might (not confirmed) work! 06F​lamore: request_insecure_environment might just not be implemented for client mods ItsAMae: I'll open a github issue then ItsAMae: just wanted to make sure it wasn't intended ItsAMae: (I mean it still may be, wanted to ask just in case) Sharavaka: Hello! I use free Minetest hosting (falixnode) . i have only FTP and server controll panel,i have a problem - i cant use Russian symbols (Character conversion failed!) plese help! Sharavaka: I trying to compile my own version, but i cant upload it to FTP Krock: well yes there are some problems with unicode characters Krock: best advice I can give right now is to use ASCII where possible sfan5: yeah this sort of a known issue Sharavaka: how can i fix it? 06F​lamore: I'm pretty sure you can't, "sometimes the best cure is prevention" Krock: rename directories, or symlink them to ASCII names so that there's no unicode name resolution in the path sfan5: by "can't use russian symbols" you mean in chat? Sharavaka: yes Sharavaka: in the chat search_social: Hello, is there any way to load a .png file into minetest blocks (pixels)? 08a​ppguru: There are multiple ways Krock: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6751 08a​ppguru: https://content.minetest.net/packages/LMD/voxelizer/ 08a​ppguru: voxelizer will require you to provide an additional plane model though Krock: also https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20411 but I don't know whether that works well enough search_social: thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! ullnrr: I've added mobs and ranged weapons to my server but can't hit mobs with these ullnrr: do you know if there is a specific attribute i have to assign to weapons to hit mobs? tango_: I'm going out on a limb and guess it depends on which mobs mod you're using tango_: I have the opposite problem with armor not protecting from mosters hit (or actually protecting in some cases and not in others) and i have no idea if the issue is with the armor mod, the mobs mod, or whatever else tango_: so far this is actually it's one of the most frustrating aspects of MT games tango_: does anybody know if armor works correctly with TenPlus1's mobs_redo mobs? ullnrr: mobs redo ullnrr: i was able to make it work tango_: ullnrr: what was the issue? 06F​lamore: pretty sure that the mod you speak of works with PilzAdam's Mobs and not Mobs Redo rubenwardy: > I have the opposite problem with armor not protecting from mosters hit (or actually protecting in some cases and not in others) and i have no idea if the issue is with the armor mod, the mobs mod, or whatever else rubenwardy: It'll be the mobs mod rubenwardy: the armor mod uses armor groups rubenwardy: the mobs mod should respect that rubenwardy: actually, it depends which group the mobs attacks with rubenwardy: maybe the armor mod needs to know about that group tango_: rubenwardy: from a cursory look at mobs_redo, mobs do fleshy damage rubenwardy: makes sense tango_: rubenwardy: judging from https://github.com/minetest-mods/3d_armor/issues/24 there's at least a couple of issues in 3d_armor too tango_: basically either damage is fully stopped, or it mostly gets through regardless of armor tango_: which more or less matches my experience tango_: when I went from wood to steel armor suddenly the mese monster projectiles stopped hurting me tango_: but hand-to-hand damage from most mosters seems to still be 100% ullnrr: what's the easy way to reset a world and create a new one in a server? 06F​lamore: rm -r (path/to/world) Krock: me regretting my life after trying to run from an oerkki using sneak Krock: how common is it for games to use Shift for fast running? 06F​lamore: If you mean Minetest games then it's not used as far as I know, mostly E Krock: meant games other than Minetest ullnrr: tango_ just an option that needed to be set to true in the weapons mod 06F​lamore: Then it's the standard in games after 2010 mase: Hi! I wanted to toggle a port of the luacontroller evcery second. I tried this with an interrupt, but the controller overheats after a short time. The I tried the interrupt example from the mesecons site. I raised the time from 0.5 to 5, but it also overheats. I alredy filed an issue. This is the example code: mase: interrupt(5, "a parameter") mase: print(event.iid) mase: Is the whole code executed when an interrupt is thrown, or only the one instruction after the interrupt declaration? sfan5: the whole code mase: Every event causes a code execution from the beginning? Hawk777: Yes. mase: But I wonder, why that example code does not run. sfan5: does it print anything? mase: Yes, util it overheats. mase: This example also overheats: https://gist.github.com/doyousketch2/4f3d32628263e25302525f27a397f569 sfan5: sounds like it's working as expected but just poorly mase: Just try it. mase: I found out, that modlib causes the luacontroller overheating. Deactivated modlib and it works. 10J​ordach: @appguru 08a​ppguru: :hypersquint: 08a​ppguru: mase: would you mind elaborating? 08a​ppguru: Alright we can continue on Minetest Forum mase: I cannot say, what the problem is. I disabled the mods one after another. And an enabled modlib caused the overheating. I don't have such a short interrupt routine in my code, I have a small if-then instruction. Without modlib, my code runs as expected. 08a​ppguru: Could you share your code? 08a​ppguru: mase dalz: hey there, does someone happen to know if there's a way to test if a node at a certain position is liquid? AspireMint: dalz: hello, first get node: node=minetest.get_node(pos) then ndef=minetest.registered_nodes[node.name] if ndef is not nil, then ndef.groups.liquid should be number in case it is liquid, otherwise nil dalz: thanks AspireMint, trying it now dalz: looks good, thanks again AspireMint: np :) AspireMint: anyone knows how to pause singleplayer from code? 08a​ppguru: dalz: Use this instead: ((minetest.registered_nodes[minetest.get_node(pos).name] or {}).liquidtype or "none") ~= "none" 08a​ppguru: AspireMint: liquid is a MTG group and should not be used here. Also, you should use minetest.get_item_group and check against 0, not nil. dalz: thanks appguru dalz: why is checking if minetest.registered_nodes contains the node necessary? dalz: can you have nodes that are not registered? AspireMint: appguru: thanks! dalz: same question i asked some days ago... yes, these nodes: "ignore" and "unknown node" dalz: good to know, ty 08a​ppguru: np sfan5: if your max fps is over 60 you can limit it sfan5: search the settings for "fps" and/or "vsync" big_caballito[m]: and speaking of macos, could we release minetest as a .app or .dmg? big_caballito[m]: my friends don't want to play because it is too complicated to get a stable build sfan5: isn't there someone who provides exactly those in downloadable form? big_caballito[m]: their not stable big_caballito[m]: they're* big_caballito[m]: if you're talking about neoastic, he's the only one who i've heard of 11I​hrFussel: MT actually even runs better if I set max fps from 30 -> 25 cause it has to process less stuff per sec is my guess rubenwardy: That's horrible MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix some minor code issues all over the place 137476247 https://git.io/JLX5h (152020-12-24T12:44:54Z) tango_: ugh lag can cause you to fall off a cart MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Rewrite colors.txt generation script for more functions and better us… 13fa5c63c https://git.io/JLXhk (152020-12-24T15:43:02Z) iamweasel: consider contributing a .dmg, big_caballito[m] ; given the utmost hostility apple displays toward free and libre apps on its platforms, i am surprised every time anyone bothers to support them at all MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix minetest.is_nan 138f72d4b https://git.io/JL1Y0 (152020-12-24T21:07:04Z) Rookeee: hey guys wassup 09w​war: Good, and you? Rookeee: goood 09w​war: With 3 o? Then there must be a cool thing Rookeee: nah thats just a way of telling yourselft that things are going good XD Rookeee: XD Rookeee: oh i put that emoji twice 09w​war: Merry christmas Rookeee: well i dont celebrate chirstmas but thnx and merry christmas to you too :) 09w​war: Thx Rookeee: why is your name MTdiscord like are u on discord or something? 11J​onathon: yes, we are Rookeee: we? 11J​onathon: theres 1169 of us currently in this discord Krock: Rookeee: MTDiscord is a relay. bidirectional messaging. Rookeee: the one names as "minetest unofficial" ? Krock: yes I think so Krock: there's no official Discord server Rookeee: ohhhh i get it now Rookeee: no wonder there was a name shown under MTDiscord XD Rookeee: and then it changed 11G​reenXenith: yet Rookeee: i know there aint any official one yet i wa just confirming the name Rookeee: was* Rookeee: cus there might be more than on discord servers for minetest Rookeee: one* Rookeee: lol im shown as a bot on the discord chats XD 11J​onathon: well yes, because its a bot relaying your messages Rookeee: yeah Rookeee: do u play minietest? or maybe just regulate servers? 11J​onathon: i play, write some mods, do a little of everything Rookeee: thats cool how do u do it? Rookeee: i also want to do but dont know where to start 11J​onathon: write mods? 11J​onathon: can start off with reading rubens modding book 11J​onathon: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html 11J​onathon: also i think there is a lua guide linked in there if i recall correctly Krock: 1) copy a maintained mod that you like Krock: 2) modify it and check what happens Krock: 3) ??? Krock: 4) profit Rookeee: wow thats awesome where did u get this? or people just share it to others who want to learn? 11J​onathon: ruben and some others wrote the book, there is a gitlab? that you can PR if you want changes to it Rookeee: PR? 11J​onathon: also lua_api.txt has most things in it 11J​onathon: PR = pull request Rookeee: ooh ooki Rookeee: btw i was wondering what keeps u going in it, i mean dont u get bored with it? what motivates you? 11J​onathon: not really, i make stuff to learn/stuff for others/stuff i want in minetest 11J​onathon: repo for book btw: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/minetest_modding_book Rookeee: repo = repost? 11J​onathon: repo=repository Rookeee: okai Rookeee: what are those files? there are so many Rookeee: alright got them Rookeee: thnx a lot Rookeee: good 05e​xe_virus: does anyone here know how to change styles within the same line of a hypertext formspec element? 05e​xe_virus: I want to scale up the font size and change the background and then revert back to normal in one go, without a /n iamweasel: balance-wise, an issue stands out for me, if you partially enter an opaque node, right at the edge you gain see-through rubenwardy: exe_virus: tags MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add dependency resolution to ContentDB (#9997) 13d2bbf13 https://git.io/JLXkr (152020-12-23T14:42:18Z) mazes_80: Krock: my next step was more chaotic than dxvk, I used to test some opengl windows games lanched under mesa zink driver: the game was playable, but the whole screen black mazes_80: I think using dxvk has more chances to work properly Krock: blind gameplay? mazes_80: just said playable, didn't say I played Krock: hehe okay mazes_80: but for fun, I'll test minetest via dxvk tomorrow, my son use the station were I can use vulkan now mazes_80: I hope it to be better than zink tango_: I impress myself by how annoyed I am that you cannot lean over a parapet / wall to look down big_caballito[m]: that is annoying, leaning would be a cool game mechanic SwissalpS: sneak not good enoug? Krock: sneak glich: on. tango_: SwissalpS: not over a wall tango_: SwissalpS: I mean, you still need to jump over the wall tango_: you cannot lean over the wall to look down when standng next to it tango_: I'm not even sure if this is an MTG or MT engine issue big_caballito[m]: engine i think Krock: engine, and movement stuff is a very controversial topic big_caballito[m]: it's not an issue it's a feature request MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: CI: fix build 132bdf495 https://git.io/JLXl1 (152020-12-23T21:27:35Z) tango_: Calinou: is there a reason why moreblocks has slopes but no recipes for them? Calinou: tango_: it's too hard to make slope recipes that don't conflict with everything else :( tango_: 8-/ Calinou: a circular saw is easier to deal with Calinou: we could add a command to "spawn" one in creative mode without having to place one physically Calinou: I made an issue about that already AspireMint: or put circular into new page in sfinv, if it fits MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix unsafe cast in l_object 132c3593b https://git.io/JLX4b (152020-12-23T22:24:58Z) tango_: AspireMint: that would be a good idea tango_: put it in sfinv if it's in the inventory MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Minor profiler fixes. 13289425f https://git.io/JLXBS (152020-12-23T22:48:08Z) 11J​onathon: thats already a separate mod by cheapie 11J​onathon: (circular saw in inv) ghoti_: Hi folks. I'm running MT on macos (installed from brew). Is there a way that I can reduce CPU usage, perhaps by specifying a maximum frame rate to use, or reduce resolution? Or some other strategy? I'd love for my battery to last more than 30 minutes of play. :) Hawk777: Your code runs from the top every time an event occurs. “mem” is the only thing that is preserved from one execution to the next. Hawk777: So if you need to save some data, that’s where you put it. Hawk777: mase: ^ SX: Well in addition to mem you could use lua controller port states to preserve info but it is just few bits, also interrupt id (a lot more limited) if those are enabled. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix fallnode rotation of wallmounted nodebox/mesh (#10643) 13535557c https://git.io/JL67m (152020-12-22T13:54:27Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix GLES shader support after #9247 (#10727) 1303540e7 https://git.io/JL673 (152020-12-22T13:53:52Z) AspireMint: Hello, can anyone tell me case when i have node.name but its def. is not in minetest.registered_nodes table? Is it posible to not have it in registered_nodes? 08a​ppguru: > * minetest.get_node(pos) > * Returns the node at the given position as table in the format > {name="node_name", param1=0, param2=0}, > returns {name="ignore", param1=0, param2=0} for unloaded areas. 08a​ppguru: "ignore" is the special case 08a​ppguru: as well as "unknown nodes" probably? AspireMint: aaaah, thank you! 13P​reet The Nitro Addict: what is this Krock: this is patrick Rookeee: ... blaise: lol Rookeee: ? blaise: <.< Rookeee: O_o 08a​ppguru: and this is spam 06+​Inocudom+: So, how goes the development of Minetest's engine? Any important optimizations as far as rendering and the automap go? Calinou: I don't think it's changed much since last year Calinou: rendering and minimap feel optimized enough for me now, there have been significant improvements since 0.4.17 tango_: are bones good for anything after serving their intended purpose? rubenwardy: good for fertiliser tango_: I assume in some mods, not in MTG, correct? rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: !mod [bonemeal MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Bonemeal [bonemeal] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16446 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/bonemeal tango_: thanks MinetestBot: mase: Dec-19 19:45 UTC For the digilines filters I think you can send an ItemStack in table form to get it to attempt to pick the specified item(s). Autocrafters have digilines support too - send a craft recipe as a table to set it, "off"/"on" to stop/start it, "single" to craft once (you can send this way faster than it would otherwise run...), "get_recipe" to check the current recipe. I don't think the sorting tubes mase: Hi! Do you have any idea, how I can implement a simple sleep of 1 second in my luacontroller-program? Everything I tried so far gave a timed out error. sfan5: don't interrupts have a time delay? mase: Yes, they have. But how to wait for an interrupt, without timing out? sfan5: you can't wait for an interrupt sfan5: you need to structure your code so that the second part runs after the interrupt fires, not by waiting mase: I see. But that makes the code much more complicated. celeron55: it also enables the code to do something else meanwhile mazes_80: just for fun I tested minetest via the zink "opengl over vulkan" driver: the rendering is quite weird, but not to bad mazes_80: at least it is totally playable sfan5: cool Krock: next: direct3d9 in Wine using dxvk mase: Does the pipeworks digiline-filter-injector send a message when an item was successfully put out? Hawk777: Pretty sure no. It only accepts digilines messages to operate it, no status reporting. mase: My problem is, that i use such an injector to request an item from a chest. But I have to know, if the item was put out successfully or not. At the moment I have a digiline detector tube behind the injector. But I have to wait for a moment, if the item runs through the detector or not. Therefor I must have a delay of about a second. Doing this with an interrupt timer ends up in an unreadable code. Any further suggestions? Hawk777: Know what’s in the chest ahead of time? Hawk777: Can’t say much without knowing the bigger context, really. Hawk777: It would be nice if Luacontrollers could create coroutines and stash then in mem, but that would be quite clearly insane because it would make it impossible to save the world to disk (you can’t serialize coroutines). Hawk777: Also probably a lot of other reasons. Hawk777: So write your code as a state machine. It’s what everyone did in all languages before everyone started adding async/await everywhere. Hawk777: And no, it’s not the most beautiful thing in the world. mase: No, I don't know, what is in the chest. For example, I request 10 pcs of steel from a chest. When those 10 pcs are present, they run through the detector a second later. So I have to check the event of the detector a second later, until my code continues. mase: I want to iterate through all the chests until I get my requested items. VanessaE: I believe there's a tube that'll sense when an item passes through it, so if you call for a specific item and it has to pass through one of those, then shouldn't that work? mase: I use such a tube. But it takes about a second until the item passes that tube. I want to wait for a second and check the event of the detector-tube. If there was no detection I want to check the next chest, and so on. erlehmann: rubenwardy, how to get this mod into the mod directory? https://github.com/Li0nsDickachu/minetest-mod-mntreform erlehmann: rubenwardy it was made by a friend of mine who read your book! rubenwardy: is that you? rubenwardy: oh right rubenwardy: well, the website is https://content.minetest.net sfan5: to CDB? just upload it there erlehmann: rubenwardy, it is not me erlehmann: rubenwardy a friend made it. so how can it show up in game? erlehmann: rubenwardy do you need to manually approve it? rubenwardy: it needs to be added to that website erlehmann: yeah who can do that? erlehmann: how rubenwardy: anyone can sign up for an account to add packages. If he doesn't want to do it, I can create the package and let you edit it as needed VanessaE: mase: if the whole point is counting items going through from A to B, then just count them, don't just sit there polling for the desired result. rather, check periodically if the count is over some threshold, then turn off whatever routine is periodically operating the injector, and just make sure the recipient can handle a few seconds' worth of excess rubenwardy: ContentDB has a database with mod metadata, which is makes available to the Minetest client. Mods go through an approval process before being visible, these is to ensure that the meta is correct rather than enforce curation VanessaE: i.e. if you want 10 of something before considering B's "buffer" to be "full", then count separately, shut off the injector routine when the count exceeds 10, and make sure B can handle say 15 of the item. VanessaE: or re-think the whole idea - ask yourself why you have to pause after running up a buffer of 10 or whatever VanessaE: for example maybe the recipient can become recipient*s* VanessaE: one chest+injector feeding a furnace is too much? feed two furnaces then. VanessaE: that kind of thing. go parallel :) Hawk777: mase: An alternative idea, you could request 10 pieces of steel from *all the chests at once*, arrange your pipe network to bring them together into one pipe, and then have a Lua sorting tube that passes the first ten steel and sends any others back to be returned to storage. Hawk777: If you definitely need exactly the right amount, and also don’t want to wait to check whether it was present in the first chest before requesting from the second, and also can’t keep a record of what lives where. VanessaE: that ^ works too provided you can be 100% sure all chests will always have something to injecyt VanessaE: -y VanessaE: otherwise you'll occasionally get less than 10 Hawk777: Yes, there is the possibility that you might not get the number you want, and I think the Lua tube can’t split stacks. One workaround would be to inject one piece ten times with a slight delay (might still be faster than waiting for the detector to work), and then you can pass ten stacks of one each before sending the rest back. Hawk777: But there is exact match mode which IIRC doesn’t send the stack at all if there isn’t enough, doesn’t it? mase: If the requested amount is not available, I want the maximum possible. Hawk777: Ah, but if you have seven in chest A and seven in chest B, you probably want ten, not zero or fourteen, right? mase: Exactly. Hawk777: Hence you *must* split a stack sometime. Hawk777: I suppose you could work iteratively. First request ten from all chests, non-exmatch. Seven will come out of each. The first seven passes through, the next seven gets sent back to storage because it’s too many. Once you’re confident no more is going to reach the lua tube (i.e. that all chests’ stacks have had time to reach that point), you start over but now request three instead of ten. Repeat until you have all you want, o Hawk777: hing shows up. Hawk777: It would depend on your typical quantities and the length of your tube segments whether that’s faster, or whether it’s faster to just split the stacks into ones right from the start (i.e. request stack-of-one ten times instead of stack-of-ten). mase: If I request less than available in one chest, I get nothing. Hawk777: AFAICT that should not happen if you’re not in exact match mode. Hawk777: Er, sorry, if you request more. If you request less than available, it should split the stack and spit out what you requested. erlehmann: rubenwardy, what does this mean? “If you have a forum account, you'll need to prove that you own it to get an account on ContentDB.” mase: Ah! Now I got what ex match means. rubenwardy: ContentDB accounts are linked to forum accounts, optionally Hawk777: If you request *more* than available, exmatch=1 means you get nothing, exmatch=0 means you get whatever is available. erlehmann: rubenwardy, thx rubenwardy: you can create CDB account and I can link it to the forum account at a later point, it's just less effort to link it from the beginning Hawk777: But always only from one stack in the chest’s inventory, I believe—I don’t think the injector will ever pull from more than one inventory slot in a single request. rubenwardy: I should write this mase: Then your solution requesting from all chests into one and send back the overplus could work. tango_: hm is swimming upwards faster than climbing ladders? erlehmann: rubenwardy, yes this explanation is more clear. you should write this! rubenwardy: "If you have a forum account, you'll need to use prove that you have access to it using one of the options below. rubenwardy: This is because ContentDB links accounts to the forums, and reserves the usernames of certain forum users from being taken." erlehmann: rubenwardy, certain forum users? rubenwardy: forum users with mod topics rubenwardy: I suppose "This is so ContentDB can link your account to your forum account" would be simpler and less confusing rubenwardy: Also, erlehmann, I just got a notification that Li0nsDichachu's email bounced rubenwardy: ie: it wasn't able to be sent to confirm the email rubenwardy: The error message indicates the either the email address doesn't exist, or the inbox is full erlehmann: rubenwardy there was a typo! erlehmann: rubenwardy thank you i told them rubenwardy: I can edit the email and username if needed rubenwardy: should it be k instead of h, like in his username? rubenwardy: lol, they registered another account rubenwardy: I'll delete the old one erlehmann: rubenwardy, to quote my friend “how was i supposed to delete it if i never got the mail?” erlehmann: rubenwardy here is Li0n Li0n: Hi erlehmann: with questions for you! Li0n: Thanks erlehmann rubenwardy: hey Li0n: rubenwardy, I was wodnering if my mod is even allowed to be uploaded, since it seems to break rule number 5 Li0n: Have you seen the mod or should I explain why I'm not sure? rubenwardy: just checking it rubenwardy: looks like the mod is about a real laptop. Rule 5 is to prevent patreon/paypal/whatever spam that I saw in the early days of ContentDB, it's not to prevent mods from doing stuff like this really. I'll see what other staff members think, but it's probably fine erlehmann: rubenwardy it is the laptop that mntmn is developing erlehmann: i actually have a prototype Li0n: Ok then I'll upload it and if the others disagree you can just delete it erlehmann: i think the mod is very good btw erlehmann: but i am a bit biased :D erlehmann: bc i like Li0n and mntmn Li0n: Also when you interact with the laptop it plays ads for the laptop Li0n: I thought that was very funny erlehmann: well it only plays the soundbite from the ad erlehmann: and it is actually very funny i think erlehmann: the laptop playing an ad for the web page is funny in the same way that you buy a fridge on amazon and then it suggests you a lot of other fridges ppl bought it Li0n: It's more like if you bought a smartfridge and every time you open the fridge it plays an ad for itself mase: One last question about the luacontroller. How can I declare a global variable? When declaring and initializing at te beginning of the code, the program loop always overwrites it with the initial value. I did this with mem.var. Is that the solution to choose? AspireMint: Hello, how do i override function from other mod? Mod has public table with functions - t.func() I tried to put that mod into depends.txt, i can even print it, is says it is function. But if i type t.func = function() print("it works") end and call it, it still call old function... is it somehow protected against overriding? 08a​ppguru: AspireMint: The mod probably localizes it. 08a​ppguru: So they have: local func do_something() print("something") end t.do_something = do_something() minetest.register_globalstep(do_something) 08a​ppguru: There probably is a way to replace it though - in the above example, minetest.registered_globalsteps could be modified 08a​ppguru: Would you mind naming mod & function so I can have a look? AspireMint: im 99% sure :D that it is not local, worldedit.transponse, i can read it in my mod, it says it is function. So it should not be local. AspireMint: worldedit.transpose * 08a​ppguru: Worldedit can still do "local transpose = worldedit.transpose" and localize it. Exposure says nothing about mod internals. 08a​ppguru: worldedit.transpose seems to not be localized 08a​ppguru: you should be able to override it 08a​ppguru: check again that your code is correct AspireMint: ohhhhhh... wrong fn, did not see it (time for small break).... ok now it works, thanks sfan5: what reason would you have to override worldedit_transpose though? AspireMint: now worldedit rotates stairs, slabs, torches AspireMint: :) AspireMint: actually it was rotate fn AspireMint: my bad... Krock: MerryFoxmas: u 2 rubenwardy: MerryFoxmas: u 3 Viper: 99% MerryFoxmas: hullo, yes, happy holidays all MerryFoxmas: *hands rubenwardy some cookies* Calinou: /giveme cookies:cookie_chocolate -1 rubenwardy: num rubenwardy: -u+o specing: lol Guest_6942: hi perrier: I made my first hang glider today. Pretty neat. perrier: I made a powered rail system with a mine cart. tango_: specing: I manage to fail at crafting even with the crafting guide tango_: then again the order in which the recipes are sorted is ... improvable MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add open user data button to main menu (#10579) 13664f5ce https://git.io/JLEo6 (152020-12-19T13:27:15Z) mase: Hi! Can anybody tell me how the digiline_send messages for the filter-injector and the sorting-tube of pipeworks look like? I cannot find any documentation about it. tango_: woah the perspective with binoculars is _weird_ tango_: it's also very good at exposing the load/rendering inefficiency in MT 8-/ cheapie: !tell mase For the digilines filters I think you can send an ItemStack in table form to get it to attempt to pick the specified item(s). Autocrafters have digilines support too - send a craft recipe as a table to set it, "off"/"on" to stop/start it, "single" to craft once (you can send this way faster than it would otherwise run...), "get_recipe" to check the current recipe. I don't think the sorting tubes have digilines support, but it's been a MinetestBot: cheapie: yeah, sure, whatever cheapie: while. SwissalpS: lua sorting tubes do support digilines cheapie: The Lua tubes do, yeah - but they had asked about the sorting tubes. cheapie: Also the Lua tubes are in the documentation, so *shrug* MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Cleanup shader generation code (#10663) 13ccbf802 https://git.io/JLuHM (152020-12-19T19:57:10Z) Andrey01: does anybody know what are 'min/maxexptime' parameters necessary in the particlespawner definition for? Andrey01: I don`t quite understand what 'expiration time' means sfan5: time until the particle disappears ("expires") Andrey01: ah, and can it disappear even before the disappearing of a whole particlespawner or after? Andrey01: I mean 'time' can be > or < 'exptime' sfan5: when a particle is emitted by the spawner it gets a random lifetime between minexptime and maxexptime sfan5: this is entirely independent of removing the spawner itself Andrey01: I`ve understood, thanks for clarification MinetestBot: 02[git] 04m42uko -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix some more joystick issues (#10624) 13af22dd8 https://git.io/JLuxV (152020-12-19T21:01:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Andrey2470T -> 03minetest/minetest: MainMenu: Add clear button and icon for search input (#10363) 135066fe7 https://git.io/JLuxw (152020-12-19T21:00:20Z) Helenah: btw... Helenah: How come foliage just burns forever? Helenah: Surely if one sets leaves on fire, the expected behaviour would be that the leaves eventually disappear. Reinhilde: dunno Helenah: onnud Reinhilde: okies rubenwardy: Things burning will destroy after a few seconds Helenah: rubenwardy: That's not what's happening here. rubenwardy: Probably a bug then Biggus_Richardvs: Hi all. Biggus_Richardvs: Anyone here familiar with nssm (not so simple mobs)? Biggus_Richardvs: I have it installed and it's loading but no mobs. I am also running mobs_redo by 10+ Biggus_Richardvs: Any idea if there is a conflict? Biggus_Richardvs: I tried shutting down every mob related mod except for mobs_redo which the docs say is a requirement - no dice. iamweasel: Biggus_Richardvs: i don't have experience with nssm, but i do run mobs_redo with mobs_monster and mobs_animal, they work great Biggus_Richardvs: iamweasel Ya me too, but nssm has like 30+ mobs - want to check them out Biggus_Richardvs: So I basically just tried nssm with mobs_redo enabled and nothing else and nothing is spawning Biggus_Richardvs: It says mobs_redo is required, so.... Biggus_Richardvs: Ya I retied disabling it and MT complained about dependencies Biggus_Richardvs: So if anyone knows what I'm missing for nssm to come up and work, help appreciated Biggus_Richardvs: Also, would like to up the spawn rate a bit Biggus_Richardvs: Getting lots of stuff like this with the --info switch when nssm loads: Biggus_Richardvs: [C]: in function 'dofile'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/init.lua:68: in main chunk2020-12-18 01:54:18: WARNING[Main]: Field "height_max": Deprecated: new name is "y_max".2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: stac Helenah: How come when I git clone https://github.com/t-affeldt/climate the directories are empty? Helenah: What's MTG weather? The mod says to disable it... Helenah: I doubt MTG = minetest_game cause I haven't seen any weather from that hence why I'm loading in a mod. specing: the stuff is probably in a non-default branch specing: ah, directories specing: Helenah: git submodule init && git submodule update sfan5: alternatively git clone --recursive sfan5: MTG weather refers to the changing cloud densities (and color?), delete the "weather" mod from minetest_game/mods/ Helenah: Aaaaah! Helenah: sfan5: So that's where I got confused with why there is an MTG weather. Helenah: It controls the clouds and colour. :3 tango_: Calinou: is the lack of glass panes for the new glass types in moreblocks intentional? or just nobody implemented it? Calinou: tango_: I think it's just that nobody implemented it tango_: Calinou: OK I'll give it a try after I fix the placement bug tango_: I'll open a ticket on that, just to remember Helenah: I'm sure mods break other mods. Helenah: I need to find a collection of mods that work great together. :/ 08a​ppguru: You're sorcerykid right? Helenah: Whose sorcerykid? o.o Helenah: Wow sprint doesn't work... Helenah: It did before... Helenah: I told you mods break other mods. Helenah: Like... my wheat and cotton doesn't grow anymore. specing: ;O Helenah: I'm contemplating switching back to Minecraft, I've never known soo many mods break soo much stuff unrelated to the mods in my life. Helenah: I was considering writing mods myself, but is it just going to break everything else? Helenah: Like, I don't know which mod is the culprit for wheat and cotton not growing anymore like I don't like which mod is the culprit for the sprint mod not working properly anymore. Helenah: Sometimes I can walk and other times I've noticed I'm going at tip toe speed... rubenwardy: Do you have a hunger mod installed? They tend to reduce sprint if you are hungry Helenah: rubenwardy: Yeah, but I'm not hungry and no matter what I do with my health and hunger, I can't sprint. Helenah: Sprint worked find with the hunger mod cause I remember loading them both together a while ago. Helenah: But I'm not sure what mod has broken sprint. Helenah: *fine rubenwardy: player physics is probably one of the most conflicting APIs there are, as the engine doesn't give any help rubenwardy: please may I see you mod list? rubenwardy: hm, would be useful to have a better way to share stuff like that Helenah: Well that's another problem... rubenwardy: RimWorld has a nice mod that makes you HTML and TXT pages Helenah: rubenwardy: https://termbin.com/fgr6 specing: Helenah: running a server is hard work Helenah: Yesh, you are going to say "Why are you using that mod? Why not this mod?" Helenah: specing: Agred specing: most mod developers are clueless and never actually used git in their life rubenwardy: lol Helenah: It was less hard work with Minecraft Forge... rubenwardy: woah, someone's actually using one of my mods Helenah: And that's messy specing: In the server I play most often, a lot of the mods have more commits in them from server staff than original mod authors rubenwardy: I can't see anything immediately suspicious in that mod list Helenah: specing: This is the annoying thing about modders, I feel like they are just kids who wanted to write a bit of code... rubenwardy: that's pretty much it, lol Helenah: Yeah specing: yes Helenah: And I'm the one who has to clean up their code. rubenwardy: I was 14 when I wrote most of my mods Helenah: That's what I've been having to do. specing: autofarmer? never heard of that Helenah: specing: It has harvesters and planters specing: It's not even in contendb rubenwardy: yeah, I just noticed that specing: But anyway, for machines I recommend techpack (it's glitching and broken, but less than pipeworks/technic) specing: glitchy* rubenwardy: !mod [autofarmer] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( rubenwardy: !mod autofarmer MinetestBot: rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( specing: techpack has a harvester rubenwardy: it doesn't even appear to be on the forums? specing: Or you could try programmable bots rubenwardy: it's a random git repo specing: basic_robots I think they are called Helenah: Maybe I'm just more experienced with putting mods together to create modpacks for Minecraft Forge and this is what my problem is, I'm not knowing which mods work best together. specing: or CSM :P rubenwardy: with ContentDB especially, you shouldn't need to have prior knowledge to install mods Helenah: rubenwardy: prior knowledge? Helenah: What's wrong with "git clone"? rubenwardy: prior knowledge meaning any extensive research or experience before installing mods Helenah: I'm confused Helenah: Surely installing a mod is simple Helenah: You download it, and you place it on the server Helenah: or the client rubenwardy: I mean in terms of "not knowing which mods work best together" Helenah: Ah Helenah: Sorry for my misunderstanding, I understand now. Helenah: I made hunger_ng support farming_plus Helenah: Cause the farming_plus plants weren't feeding. rubenwardy: farming_plus hasn't been updated since 2014 Helenah: I heard I should be using farming_redo rubenwardy: I'm not a fan of what farming redo does with seeds, but it'll probably work better anyway rubenwardy: Where did you get autofarmer from? Helenah: rubenwardy: git Helenah: er... Helenah: github Soni: why not break backwards compatibility with old mods just to make sure ppl can't use them in an incompatible configuration? ;) Helenah: That's where I grabbed all the mods I use. rubenwardy: So, it's a bad sign if a mod is just on github and not on the forums or contentdb - it implies that they're not confident enough to actually publish it 11J​onathon: Git remote -v 11J​onathon: Will tell you exactly where rubenwardy: Yeah, I've found the git repo tango_: the real issue with farming is what to do with the extra seeds tango_: honestly I would like to do oil with them to fuel an oil lamp, but there's no mod for “just that” tango_: all stuff gets merged into huge mods 8-/ rubenwardy: Helenah: it's climate that's stopping sprint rubenwardy: the climate mod updates player physics every tick, overwriting sprint Helenah: rubenwardy: It didn't work before I loaded that. Helenah: Not saying that it wouldn't have broke it... Helenah: But what I'm saying is... another mod is doing it too. rubenwardy: I can sprint when I remove that mod rubenwardy: although, I didn't install food or unified inventory Helenah: ah :3 rubenwardy: This issue is because the engine doesn't provide a nice way for mods that change physics to coexist. There's some work in progress to add this, but in the mean time there are two mods that help with it: player_monoids, playerphysics rubenwardy: climate supports those two mods rubenwardy: unfortunately, sprint predates them both so doesn't rubenwardy: oops, I meant player_monoids and pova Helenah: rubenwardy: Well, I'm glad you guys are actively improving the engine. :) Helenah: tango_: Atleast with Minetest it's easier to be selective what you want to use from a mod and what you don't. rubenwardy: tango_: parafinn in basic_materials? rubenwardy: maybe Helenah: Those horrible jar file mods for Forge are awful when you want select things from a mod, but you get the whole damn package with no way to rip it all out without extracting the jar and recompressing. rubenwardy: plus, a lot of the mods are proprietary and you're not supposed to even do that Helenah: Like... me and members of my server agreed to get rid of tree monsters Helenah: from the mobs_monster mod Helenah: We also added pesticide to farming_plus and changed the way weeds work. Helenah: rubenwardy: Yeah, that was annoying about Forge, I'd get a bunch of mods but notice that they are all closed up. Helenah: If a mod is huge and lags your server but you really want to use the mod you can't do anything about it cause it's closed up. rubenwardy: We ban no-modification mods from the forums and ContentDB for this reason - server owners and users being able to modify their mods results in a healthy ecosystem Helenah: But with Minetest, it's great, it's lightweight, it isn't heavy. You can load over a dozen mods and not have any real performance hit and I'm running this stuff on a 512MB RAM single core. Helenah: I was even able to force mapblocks to stay loaded, lots of them with this hardware resource and not have a huge hit, it's great for automation systems such as farms and factories. Helenah: Ofc one should be forcing mapblocks to stay loaded from spawn and around spawn, not like in some random silly locations. Helenah: Imagine if every player requested their mapblocks stay loaded and they are all choosing random places on the map? That would be bad! Helenah: You end up with load hundreds of kept loaded mapblocks here, there and everywhere, oh what a disaster! lol Helenah: So I'm going to encourage my server players to keep their automation stuff near spawn if they want that stuff to keep running. rubenwardy: I wanted to make a pure-Lua model automation system, where it work without the map being loaded Helenah: rubenwardy: How would that work? Through storing data? Helenah: Like... running a routine and storing the changes? rubenwardy: there would be a Lua graph representing the machines, which would run independently of the world rubenwardy: you wouldn't be able to do anything that modified the world Helenah: Yeah, that sounds neat rubenwardy Helenah: I thought of something like that rubenwardy: This is how advanced trains works - trains run even in unloaded mapblocks Helenah: I thought "Why can't we do this for automation instead of relying on the world itself to keep the automation running?" Helenah: It would open up new possibilities. Helenah: This is what I hated about Forge. Helenah: You'd want farms and factories to keep running here, there and everywhere. Helenah: But then you realise that, as soon as you put automation outside of spawn you've to place down resource heavy chunk loaders. Helenah: Cause they all rely on chunks to be loaded to work... Helenah: I suppose that's the simplest way to code machines for the game without having to put much more effort into the automation side and how to keep things running. Helenah: But it doesn't mean it's the right way. Helenah: For example, I was using IndustrialCraft on a server to create an automated nuclear power plant, for that I used ComputerCraft and everytime I restarted the server, I had to log into the server straight away to start up this computer otherwise it'd go BOOM and one day... that happened... :/ Helenah: That's cause ComputerCraft doesn't save the on/off state of computers. Helenah: And it should be rubenwardy: oh, btw - to find out that climate was the problem, I searched for "set_physics_override" in your mods and then looked at the usage rubenwardy: not that I expect everyone to do that, the engine should just make it easier to be compatible Helenah: rubenwardy: Btw... I was wondering if other programmers have traits like this but... my gf, she's a C/C++ programmer but she is really good with understanding programming logic therefore she easily and quickly picks up languages she's never used before... but when she runs into a problem... I noticed her finger joints crack before she gets to the keyboard to fix the problem. Helenah: Like this "Right, lets sort this little problem out" *finger joints crack* tango_: rubenwardy: what do you mean by no-modification mods? tango_: Helenah: spawn or home? Helenah: tango_: Mods which are proprietary therefore you are not allowed to modify them and they are hard to modify if you want to do so. Helenah: We were talking about proprietary forge mods. tango_: Helenah: oh, with nonfree licenses Helenah: tango_: spawn Helenah: Yes tango_: Helenah: why not home though? tango_: for example I spawned in a horrible place so I set my home elsewhere Helenah: tango_: Imagine if over 100 people have their own homepoint and I'm keeping their homepoint mapblocks loaded for their automated stuff? tango_: but then again I think when you set home (eg with bed) you also set the spawn Helenah: That's why I was saying spawn... Helenah: tango_: I have server administration stuff on my server so I've got /spawn and /setspawn Helenah: And this is where I want to keep mapblocks that don't unload. Helenah: So that's what I do tango_: meh Helenah: Therefore I would rather people who want to keep their automation running build that stuff around spawn. tango_: sometimes spawn is a horribe place Helenah: tango_: Yeah, I always make sure it isn't by being the first to build some stuff there. tango_: when I was getting started with hosting my own server I actually wiped clean and restarted with a new world twice just because the spawn point was absolutely horrible Helenah: Cause, such spawn point should be an introductory area. tango_: the third one it was still bad, but not AS bad Helenah: You want it to welcome people to the server Helenah: What's the point in such a location if it just deters people away from it? It's a waste! specing: spawn doesen't have infinite space Helenah: tango_: I've been on servers with terrible spawnpoints too. Helenah: specing: They don't, no tango_: Helenah: I don't disagree with spawn being a good spot, I just think that only keeping that forceloaded limits options Helenah: But one can use area mods to create a "spawn area" of any size. Helenah: tango_: No, I'll expand out from it specing: Helenah: techpack forceloads are a good option, they let players pick which blocks to forceload tango_: Helenah: but that won't be forceloaded then? Helenah: Okay... let me ask you guys a question and I'll consider forceloading other areas too... how heavy is doing this? tango_: specing: yeah,but I think Helenah's issue is that too many players forceloading too many blocks would be cause for server slowdown Helenah: tango_: Yes Helenah: That's my point Helenah: Where if farms are near each other in a single area... tango_: Helenah: stop being poor and buy yourself a top-of-the line last-gen CPU with 1TB of RAM ;-) Helenah: o.o tango_: joking aside, I have no idea Helenah: This isn't intended to be a big Minetest server, it's for my friends only. specing: Helenah: farms do not affect forceloads load Helenah: So it wont need 1TB of RAM ever specing: Helenah: most crops grow with node timers tango_: Helenah: then you probably can forceload all of their home zones specing: not ABMs Helenah: hmm Helenah: tango_: They automatically seem to build near spawn anyway. Helenah: Or contribute to spawn. tango_: they can't move away? specing: of course, /spawn is a free homepoint Helenah: Not they can but they choose not to specing: Imagine if you had only one or two homepoints and spawn was not there tango_: ah ok Helenah: It's like we are communial tango_: then it won't make much difference Helenah: I let a new member onto the server recently... Helenah: And he started trashing spawn... Helenah: So... a member of the community butchered him tango_: lol Helenah: and I transported him into a box and took away his interact privilege Helenah: and his home and tp privilege Helenah: We told him he'll be in there for 24 hours but he never came back. Helenah: lol tango_: gee I wonder why Helenah: tango_: Cause... we punished him for his behaviour, we told him to stop causing grief but he wouldn't listen so we punished him for his childish behaviour. specing: who was this? specing: nickname=? tango_: Helenah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm Helenah: We want spawn to be contributable by all members who join so we are not willing to protect it using mods, we'lll protect it in other ways such as rebuilding what his been destroyed. Helenah: tango_: I can't tell sarcasm in text, Idk why everyone assumes I should be able to... Helenah: It really is difficult Helenah: Irl, I can tell, but not in text. tango_: Helenah: I mean, I thought in this case it was obsvious Helenah: I'd like to know peoples secrets. tango_: when it's less obvious I try to add /s Helenah: tango_: Cause I go off the expression of sarcasm Helenah: That's how I understand when someone is being sarcastic, and with text those expressions are missing. Helenah: I'm the same with jokes... Helenah: and illiteracy tango_: I can do extremely serious sarcasm even in person tango_: worse, I often do tango_: so probably you wouldn't catch my sarcasm even in person Helenah: Maybe it's from being diagnosed with social communication disorder as a child. Helenah: I had to learn to overcome it Helenah: Cause I got sick and tired of hearing people say to me "Wow, you can't take a joke", "Why are you soo literal?", "I wasn't being literal.", "Wow, you can't take sarcasm.", "I was only being sarcastic." Helenah: These things became a problem to me and I tried to overcome them. tango_: OTOH, there's people who use the sarcasm/joke excuse to do whatever they please Helenah: I'd get other things like "It's called a joke", "It's called sarcasm.", "It's called a figure of speech". Helenah: tango_: Yes, I noticedthat. tango_: I wouldn't be surprised if your griefer would have come out with the joke excuse, for example Helenah: These days I'm better irl and I can see a joke, take a joke, tell a joke, same for sarcasm and other things, I can tell if someone is being illiteral but as a child this was a problem to me. Helenah: tango_: He didn't, he just kept laughing, I think he was getting a kick out of it. tango_: btw I think the opposite of literal is figurative or something like that tango_: Helenah: probably Helenah: Ah tango_: IIRC illiteracy refers to not knowing how to read or write tango_: but I'm not a native english speaker so don't take my word for it Helenah: He told me later on "I destroyed the place cause I found the game a joke, I enjoyed being butchered, that was fun but when you trapped me in a box that took the fun away." Helenah: tango_: I'm a native speaker but did you know it's IRC which got my English to this level? specing: Helenah: the proper approach to that is to exploit some hole in minetest client, install a cryptolocker and write "Who's laughing now?" on screen the next day Helenah: My English used to be trash when I first started. Helenah: specing: lol tango_: Helenah: I've frequently heard of native english speakers being worse at grammar and ortography than non-native 8-) tango_: specing: that might be borderline illegal specing: tango_: put it into terms of service specing: nobody reads those anyway specing: :P tango_: “if you grief you'll get hacked” Helenah: tango_: Yes, I've often said to British people that... the best speakers of English are non-native speakers who have had to spend the time to think about what they want to say and who have had to learn a new language. Helenah: tango_: lol tango_: well I wouldn't know about best tango_: the accents are ... tango_: let's say that my written english is considerably superior to my spoken one 8-D Helenah: Well... British people think that cause English is their language they can use it any way they want to and it gets on my nerves. tango_: it's one of those positions that is not right, but not even wrong Helenah: Excessively shortening words "r u or8 m8 x" Helenah: It outcasts non-natives tango_: are you allright mate tango_: come on that was easy tango_: ;-) Helenah: I'm not speaking for all non-natives... Helenah: But those who are new to the language and not very good at it Helenah: It helps if people talk to them properly Helenah: It helps them learn too tango_: I agree tango_: it's also good for learning Helenah: Like... people treat Facebook like an SMS function... Helenah: forgetting that those days are gone and no longer do we have a limited line length to type in specing: I wish they'd start treating it like SMS (and thus stop using it) Helenah: specing: lol Helenah: Yeah, I hate Facebook tango_: specing: lol Helenah: I wish all my fuckin friends didn't rely on it... Helenah: And use something sensible... specing: I fixed that Helenah: Instead I'm forced to set up bitlbee specing: sent all friends to hell Helenah: lol Helenah: Just to keep in contact with my friends via the internet tango_: that will also reduce the server load issues Helenah: It's extra software which I don't really want. tango_: removing friends, I mean specing: I communicate by email, IRC, tox, matrix, XMPP or I do not communicate at all Helenah: specing: Same here mostly specing: (or in-person) tango_: but not during the pandemic tango_: 8-D Helenah: The odd time I will send a message to an irl friend via MQTT Helenah: But I want to do away with using MQTT Helenah: Like my mother is like "Why do you never message me?" tango_: “no reason to” Helenah: And telling her that "I don't message you cause you use Facebook" doesn't wash... Helenah: Here is my experience with trying to get a friend to use a sane communication protocol, they either join for a day or so then never use it again... or they simply wont use it, the latter is the majority case. specing: tango_: sure, during the pandemic Helenah: So I gave up on doing that tango_: specing: I mean in-person Helenah: I also, don't like phones. specing: tango_: yes, that was the reply to Helenah: Infact... my cell phone is rarely charged up unless I need to charge it cause I'm expecting an important call. I have cancer you see so I often have to charge it up ready for a medical phone call. Helenah: That's where my mother comes into it again, she expects me to if not use Facebook to do it use my phone to SMS her or give her a phone call telling her that I "love her" once in a while cause I don't live near her. Helenah: And I hate using these communication channels to do that... Helenah: or do anything Helenah: What do you guys think of Discord? 11J​onathon: it works, and has a good UI Helenah: I hate the desktop app 11J​onathon: why? and you can always use the web app Helenah: I noticed it graphically freezes for a while when someone is typing a private message or me or has send a private message, both graphically freeze the app. Helenah: and it takes like 20 minutes for it to regain... Helenah: Yes, I'd rather use the web app, infact, I'd rather not use Discord at all. specing: use XMPP Helenah Helenah: I wanted to use a CLI client but according to Discord "You can't do that", I need to communicate via a Discord bot... Helenah: Stupid restrictive crap Helenah: specing: Yes, I like XMPP 11J​onathon: never heard of that sort of issue specing: or Matrix specing: however matrix has no good clients Helenah: I don't even like giving money to energy boards, why would I use proprietary crap? I believe in sharing and communing and contributing and supporting a fair ecosystem Helenah: and stupid crappy bullshit like this takes that away Helenah: Like... the energy grid should be everyones, they put energy into it, they get energy out of it, and everyone is a winner with it. Helenah: I don't wanna give money to some fat cat just to not freeze to death... Helenah: That's manipulation... Helenah: That's why he has truffles for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday Helenah: *That's just so tango_: Helenah: the problem with things being “everyone's” is that you still need someone to policy it Helenah: tango_: I don't mind that Helenah: But I think energy boards should be building a grid system that is everyones. tango_: Helenah: and the problem with there being someone to policy it is that then you need oversight of what the policer does tango_: etc rubenwardy: [15:33] <2196f3tango_> rubenwardy: what do you mean by no-modification mods? rubenwardy: A mod which has a license that prevents users from modifying it or distributing modifications Helenah: You know if I had the power I'd get rid of money.... money has done nothing but make people suffer... I'd rather suffering from living in the wild than have sufference imposed on me by authority... tango_: rubenwardy: so non-free rubenwardy: Mods that restrict this are proprietary and non-free, but not all proprietary and non-free licenses prohibit htis tango_: there are non-free licenses that allow redistribution of modifications? rubenwardy: yes tango_: then how are they non-free rubenwardy: CC BY-SA-NC for example tango_: I don't consider that non-free tango_: 8-D Helenah: Just to let you guys know... I already get what I want for free anyway. tango_: if has SA it's free in my perspective rubenwardy: well, I'm going by the free software definition here tango_: but then again me and the FSF disagree on other things too tango_: 8-D rubenwardy: anyway, for more info: https://content.minetest.net/help/non_free/ tango_: rubenwardy: in fact i'm not even sure the FSF would consider Cc BY_SA_NC non-free tango_: since afaics it does respect their 4 freedomsn rubenwardy: prohibiting commercial use is certainly less non-free than the other things tango_: ah they do classify it as a violation of rule 2 tango_: I disagre rubenwardy: it has problems though because "commercial use" can be vague Helenah: bravo whisky tango tango_: rubenwardy: hm rubenwardy: well, not necessarily vague but have unintended limitations rubenwardy: For example, making a video of yourself playing a game with NC assets and monetising the video would be breaching NC rubenwardy: for CC BY-SA-NC specifically rubenwardy: most games have exceptions for this in their EULAs specing: CC-By-NC is bad here as it does not have a clear definition on what commercial use is Helenah: rubenwardy: Well... one simple statement with no context is always vague. Helenah: "Do is meant by this statement?" Helenah: "Can I commercially use it if I have only 5 employees?" Helenah: That ^ tango_: cc does have some explanation about this tango_: but yeah, I see where the problem would lie tango_: that being said, I think I will do my own oil + oil lamp mod Helenah: So then you need to rummage through the licenses of the company offering the solution cause they put a vague statement on the solution. tango_: I really wish mods were more composable 8-/ specing: also, you can use cc-by-nc commercially in e.g. italy specing: just donate 51+% of profit to charity rubenwardy: company profit or profit of that work? specing: company specing: I've heard this 2/3-rd hand, so idk if it works celeron55: that's an interesting interpretation tango_: well it does kind of defeat the “primary for profit” clause in NC tango_: if you give away > half of what you get from it specing: add some creative accounting and you can wipe that profit away Helenah: Why is my game always on mute? Helenah: I unmute it, come back to it sometime, it's muted again... :/ Helenah: I've asked my gf if she's muting it and she says "no" Helenah: cause she's said in the past many times that the animal noises do her marbles in Helenah: I figured it out, I must be hitting M by mistake. rubenwardy: lol, I do that to rubenwardy: +o sfan5: I'd support a permanently displayed icon if you have your game muted sfan5: then you have a chance to notice that you accidentally hit it specing: or just unbind mute tango_: but you might want to mute it Calinou: unbinding the mute key by default sounds good to me Calinou: it's uncommon for games to have a mute key by default Calinou: except for voice chat in some games, where you may want to have a "clutch key" during tense moments so your teammates don't shout in your ears while you're trying to hear footsteps Calinou: (CS:GO added this as a default feature recently) Calinou: https://imgur.com/a/Qg6reVE rubenwardy: yeah, I think unbinding mute is the best approach Krock: remove the default from defaultsettings. that's the approach hre Biggvs_richardvs: Anyone familiar with nssm know why it (apparently) won't run under 5.3.0? Biggvs_richardvs: I have it enabled and mob redo, which is apparently reqired, and nothing else but default MT mods Biggvs_richardvs: No mobs spawning Biggvs_richardvs: Errors like this showing with --info switch starting server: Biggvs_richardvs: 2020-12-18 01:54:18: WARNING[Main]: Field "tile_images": Deprecated; new name is "tiles".2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: stack traceback:2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: [C]: in function 'register_item_raw'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:182: in function 'register_item'2020-12-18 01:54:18: Biggvs_richardvs: INFO[Main]: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:208: in function 'register_node'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/nssm_materials.lua:302: in main chunk2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: [C]: in function 'dofile'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/init.lua:68: in main chunk Krock: I don't see any error there. Only a warning rubenwardy: that doesn't look like an error, that just telling you a deprecation rubenwardy: that's fine rubenwardy: lol, ninja'd :'( Biggvs_richardvs: Ya Krock: :P Biggvs_richardvs: But that's the only indicator of any kind I have as to why it might not be spawning mobs Krock: are you using Minetest Game, or another variant? rubenwardy: have you been exploring new areas? It might only explore there Krock: nssm uses ABMs, thus it should spawn every now and then Biggvs_richardvs: Unless I'm missing a configuration step like I need a spawn.lua file or something, but I thought that was optional Krock: oh right. check the settings. maybe it disabled some mobs by default Biggvs_richardvs: Minetest game Krock: !mod nssm MinetestBot: Krock: Not So Simple Mobs [nssm] by npx - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11813 - https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm Biggvs_richardvs: brand new server instance, so eerything is new Biggvs_richardvs: Krock Ok I'll try Biggvs_richardvs: oh nm Krock: there are a few settings: https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm/blob/master/settingtypes.txt Krock: no idea why it's mapgen-dependent but that might do the trick to add minetest.conf settings accordingly rubenwardy: also, maybe try enabling damage? rubenwardy: maybe Krock: right. checkboxes for damage and creative unticked Krock: you can still grant yourself creative in-game for the same effect. for immortality you'd need a mod Krock: delaying merge, adding 10642 to the list Krock: (ignore) Biggvs_richardvs: Krock could you elaborate on " add minetest.conf settings accordingly?" Looks like the default is mapgen 7, which is what I'm set to (default for 5.3.0) Krock: alright. then how about creative/damage settings? Biggvs_richardvs: creative is false in my minetest.conf Biggvs_richardvs: damage=true Biggvs_richardvs: mobs_monsters for example works fine when I have it enabled MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: DevTest: Add food item to test food replacement (#10642) 13025035d https://git.io/JLRqc (152020-12-18T18:38:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Make installer create its own Minetest folder (#10445) 13d5a481b https://git.io/JLRqC (152020-12-18T18:38:27Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Documentation for highest formspec_version[] and changelog (#10592) 136f8a1c9 https://git.io/JLRqW (152020-12-18T18:38:07Z) Biggvs_richardvs: I just increased multimobs (Multimobs) int 5000 Krock: init.lua Krock: move "spawn.lua" to the end of the file. perhaps that does the trick Krock: also Krock: delete mod.conf Krock: that one does not contain any dependency information, hence the mod loading order is not guaranteed Krock: deleting it will let Minetest fall back to the correct depends.txt Krock: nvm about mod.conf. there's backwards compat code in mods.cpp to cover this case Biggvs_richardvs: ok tried moving span and renaming mod.conf - testing now Krock: you can force newly generated area by renaming/removing the map data -> file map.sqlite Krock: as mentioned earlier, that might increase chances for spawning Biggvs_richardvs: I'm on brand new game, new map Biggvs_richardvs: Halfway through night time, nothing so far Biggvs_richardvs: with that setting at 5000, I would expect 5 times as many mobs but there are none Krock: 0 * 5 = 0 Biggvs_richardvs: I'm wondering if since mobs redo is a dependency if there is soemthing in there Krock: but well.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't know Biggvs_richardvs: Krock Thank you for you help in any case! Krock: feel free to add print() statements to the spawn code to check whether there's something happening, increase the spawn chance setting again, whatever. Biggvs_richardvs: what would adding print() statements look like? Krock: print("reached this point in the code") Krock: print("reached this other point in the code 2") Krock: it would print the stuff to stdout (console) Biggvs_richardvs: got it iamweasel: gpl cannot prevent from distributing a lie :) only a lie without source :) iamweasel: mt Biggvs_richardvs: I just noticed this at top of spawn code: Biggvs_richardvs: if (mymapgenis~=6) and (mymapgenis~=7) then mymapgenis = 7end-- Spawning parametersif mm ~= 0 then if mymapgenis == 6 then Biggvs_richardvs: Then all the spawning stull follows Biggvs_richardvs: Looks like spawning will only happen is mymapgenis == 6 Krock: no, below there's "else" Krock: which covers all other mapgens Biggvs_richardvs: Not seeing the "else" Krock: line 55 Biggvs_richardvs: Ah got it Biggvs_richardvs: Hmm looks like it's working now. Couldn't tell you why Krock: randomness Andrey01: hello, do 'minexptime/maxexptime' of the particlespawner define how long the emitted particles live? Just it is not documented in lua_api.txt sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L8268-L8269 sfan5: oh he left Lukwe: aw tango_: does MT light decrease linearly, -1 per node? tango_: Calinou: does moreblocks remove the obsidian => obsidian glass recipe? Calinou: I don't know Calinou: and yes, light decreases linearly, -1 per node Calinou: although the light value is not linear when rendered tango_: hm it definitely looks like I can't cook obsidian to its glass with moreblocks tango_: I wonder why, I see nothing that would touch that recipe tango_: unless all glass recipes get wiped before? tango_: oh wait I'm stupid tango_: it's the shards, not the mined obsidian perrier: so .5 means moremobs perrier: I tried it and there were more mobs at .5 than 3 tango_: wouldn't anythin 1 or less means every time? tango_: and tthus 3 times more than 1/3 SwissalpS: depends. often the code is something like: if 1 = math.rand(1, x) then spawn() end SwissalpS: could well be correct tango_ perrier: 1 for .5 means 2 perrier: for 1 chance perrier: the lower the decimal the more mobs spawn perrier: I'll try it Helenah: Why is power from my solar generator which I've confirmed is generating power not reaching my supply converter which is only below it? SwissalpS: Helenah: how much does the switching station at output network say demand is? SwissalpS: if it's more than supply, nothing works Helenah: SwissalpS: There is no demand at the moment Helenah: I'm trying to see if the power generation and the cables work first * Helenah: dumps a machine on the line Helenah: Still nothing SwissalpS: Helenah: you have a switching station on both networks, right? Helenah: The switching station near the solar generator is receiving Helenah: but the converter says its nothing to convert... Helenah: Yes perrier: I tried .1 mobs everywhere Helenah: The one on the LV network isn't receiving from the converter SwissalpS: and the converter is turned on and set to a value same or less as the input network is delivering? Helenah: Oh Helenah: SwissalpS: That solved it, thanks SwissalpS: :D perrier: another question mob_difficulty? "Sets mob difficulty by multiplying punch damage." Helenah: I was wondering, is there a power storage the device? I'm not talking about something to charge inventory item tools like mining guns Helenah: but to ensure machines get power even if it's say night time. Helenah: Or can the battery boxes act like that? perrier: I set mobs_difficulty to 3 and had a sandman hitting me pretty hard they did no damage at all before. perrier: The human punches don't doany damage. I have some armor on though. SwissalpS: Helenah: battery boxes are usually used for that, yes perrier: I set mobs_difficulty to 5 and a sandman was spawned with 100 hp and dealing 2hp per punch perrier: Humans still do no damage but they spawn with 100hp. perrier: The human rock throwers can damage me through armor. perrier: One last thing I made a new bag but I couldn't use slot 1 in unified inventory like it's reserved for my old bag but it's not showing up. Helenah: SwissalpS: So where is the output to connect machines to them? I know the input is through the bottom where I can connect power sources to them. Helenah: But what about taking power out to power for example... a planter? MinetestBot: Bombo: Dec-14 20:03 UTC look at this Helenah: Also, it would be nice if device blocks in the technic mod could be connect to cables via multiple sides, for example, only being able to connect a solar panel to a battery box via the bottom of the battery box makes no logical sense cause... a solar panel would be on the roof of a building, where the battery box could be inside therefore it would make sense to connect a cable to the top of the Helenah: battery box, not the bottom surely. Helenah: It feels very rigid specing: technic is crap specing: The machines and formspecs are ugly and the power lines do not really behave like power lines specing: the supply converter doesen't behave like supply converters IRL Helenah: specing: I'm finding it really confusing, someone further up the chest said I can use the battery box reserve to power machines but how? Helenah: My logic is that something like that has an input and an output yet only the bottom is connectable, is the bottom both an input and an output? Helenah: specing: Is there an alternative to this technic mod? specing: yes, bottom is I/O specing: That part actually behaves like power IRL specing: (it's confusing that the connection is on the bottom, but hey...) specing: Helenah: terumet + techpack specing: Helenah: elepower Helenah: specing: Lol, I had to search "terumet" three times before Google stopped saying "No results". Think they got a glitch! Helenah: Looking at it now :3 SwissalpS: just place the battery box on the network. when there is surplus, it is charged, when there isn't enough, it is discharged into the network specing: Helenah: there's content db search in minetest itself SwissalpS: the tube port on top is for items like seeder, you want to discharge aka charge battery box SwissalpS: tube port from a side is to insert items you want to charge aka discharge battery box SwissalpS: tube port on another side is to throw out charged items Helenah: SwissalpS: battery boxes have no tube ports lol SwissalpS: hmm, you are certainly not using the technic mod together with pipeworks then Helenah: SwissalpS: I am Helenah: My chests and some machines have tube ports Helenah: But the battery boxes don't Helenah: I double checked just now after saying it SwissalpS: oh, LV doesn't Helenah: Ah Helenah: Yeah, I'm using LV ones Helenah: It's crazy... Helenah: What if I want to use a battery box not for machine blocks... Helenah: and other ones for machine blocks? Helenah: Hiya AmyMalik :3 Helenah: Why have you called "oak logs" "tree"? Helenah: A tree is the entire thing is doesn't describe the type of tree. Helenah: A tree considers of the trunk which when choppped down you got logs... Helenah: and *consists Helenah: Also, a tree has the leaves and the fruit... blaise: and the heart blaise: and the tap root Auracle: Hello I have some questions about minetest Auracle: Is the game more like a gimmic or it's actually meant to be gamed on, if so why the sound design and textures are so clunky (no offense intended) also why the walk speed is making me cringe and die inside, also why we can't run? specing: Auracle: install the stamina(?) mod and you can run specing: clunky? It's supposed to look pixelated Auracle: Yeah I know but the textures are bad, again no offense intended if designer is here Auracle: Not terrible just, bad. Sound is worst if that can help specing: help the modder make them better, then Auracle: Yeah this is where my first questions comes in, is minetest even allowed to exist? Auracle: Even the name suggest it's for testing purpose I guess specing: allowed? specing: Why do you think it would not be allowed to? Auracle: Yes, most blocks seems to be ripped off from minecraft Auracle: Ex bluestone, redstone etc Auracle: It's not standing on its own specing: ? I never saw bluestone/redstone in Minetest Auracle: Then it was the server I was on, interesting Auracle: Is there any shaders mod? Emerald2: Might have been a mineclone server? Auracle: Yes probably Emerald2: There have been numerous debates about changing the name but a better one was never found. Auracle: To be honest, if this game wants to stand on its own it needs a new name, a proper installation setup, not a .zip file, and way more Emerald2: The closest thing we have to redstone (in non-mineclone) is mesecons. I have no idea what bluestone is. specing: Auracle: Minetest is not a game, it's an engine specing: to be exact Auracle: Ok this says more Auracle: Welp that pretty much sums my questions thanks for answering Emerald2: There are texture packs to improve textures. Mods add sounds and all kinds of other stuff. Emerald2: RPG16 is a popular one. Emerald2: https://content.minetest.net/packages/?type=txp Auracle: Textures aren't the worst, they are about 70% what they should be I'd say, I rate sound about 20% tho Auracle: In game shaders about 10% and gameplay about 10% as well, the fact that default walkspeed is unbearable without mod isn't normal Auracle: Also torches seems to fade to pure blackness very quick, also shine white which isn't immersive, lots of quick details skipped over Auracle: But it's okay if it's meant to be a game engine more than a game.... I guess specing: I, too, do not understand why running does not work without a mod specing: even more so when all physics is client-side Auracle: minetest making me sad specing: I'd rate minetest pretty good, given it's all volunteer effort Auracle: its like watching a game that I know will probably stay in the shadows for... probably forever... until one of the main creators take things seriously specing: Auracle: make it better ;D Auracle: Never worked on a huge project, never worked with voxels and stuff like this, I wait for UE5 next year to start working on games Auracle: that's why I don't get it, getting through the pain of making a perfectly working game engine, yet letting it sleep in a corner :( Auracle: " perfectly working " lets say working, I didn't went that far in testing Auracle: Is there a minetest discord? 13V​ili: Yes there is discord 11G​reenXenith: https://discord.gg/6W84ytH 13V​ili: Not sure how to invite specing: try not to use it, it's propriteary with a horrible terms of serivce 13V​ili: There it goes 🙂 11G​reenXenith: Use whichever chat platform you are most comfortable with. Auracle: Well, using discord in 2020 just makes more sense Auracle: Way easier to manage everything, another thing minetest main creators should make if they want to take things seriously, should make a bucket list tango_: eh debatable tango_: (I mean discord > irc in 2020) 11G​reenXenith: Indeed debatable, but not really a debate for here tango_: oh absolutely 02A​uracle: Have a great day guys specing: Auracle https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#minetest:matrix.org specing: IRC and discord aren't all there is specing: Matrix is modern and transparently bridges all of freenode tango_: the true answer is https://xkcd.com/1782/ tango_: anyway 11G​reenXenith: haha, yes tango_: see, now I can't nick-complate on Auracle to ping him tango_: the problem with discord's way of doing things 11G​reenXenith: That a bridge problem, not a Discord problem tango_: auracle: one of the good things about minetest is that it's FLOSS 11G​reenXenith: Not one that I can solve, though Id love to tango_: auracle: so there's the possibility to contribute to improve things tango_: (hint hint) 02A​uracle: Well gotta keep on with technology, IRC is just discord without HUD basically... and structure... specing: if Auracle was on Matrix, we could tab complete their nick specing: as it's transparently bridged tango_: (Even though at the moment contributing to the game itself (rather than the engine) has some a pretty bothersome gatekeeper) 11G​reenXenith: Matrix is essentially an IRC client itself 11G​reenXenith: The only reason you an autocomplete their nicks is because they are actually in the IRC channel tango_: I thought we had decided this wasn't really a debate for here? 11G​reenXenith: Just pointing out why Matrix users can be autocompleted specing: the reason they are in the channel is because the bridging is transparent 02A​uracle: I don't want to contribute to the game as it will probably be considered a "mod" even tho it would be meant to fix default issues 11I​hrFussel: That depends on what code you wanna improve/change ... there is for example builtin which is part of the engine but Lua still tango_: auracle: so what's even the point of your remark? tango_: auracle: contributing to MT and MTG is largely the same as with any FLOSS project. one does the job, that lives on a separate branch until it gets merged upstream (if this happens) tango_: MTG is currently considered frozen feature-wise (long story, don't ask), but improvements to the textures and sounds can be considered maintenance (although this obviously depends on the attitude of the gatekeepers) tango_: auracle: se e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2774 for another PR dealing with tuning of the sound effects tango_: does anybody know if there is a mod that gives you something to mark points? say a book/map that when you use it on a node marks the position of the node letting you add a description? rubenwardy: kinda this https://content.minetest.net/packages/Hybrid%20Dog/bookmarks/ specing: tango_: advmarkers CSM? Helenah: Any there anything like CodeChickenChunks Chunk Loaders that I can place in certain parts of the world? I intend to use them wisely as I know they can hit performace but I'd really like a block that can do this. specing: Helenah: techpack has forceloads, technic switching stations iirc have the same effect specing: maptools? has world anchors 11J​onathon: I thought world anchors where twchnic? 11J​onathon: *technic Helenah: specing: I can't find any documentation on these world anchors. Helenah: Oh found it Helenah: Wait.. I didn't find it, that one is for Minecraft. 11J​onathon: Yeah, its in technic Helenah: I don't seem to have world anchor yet I have the latest technic... 11J​onathon: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic/machines/other/anchor.lua Helenah: Unless they added world anchors yesterday or something like that. 11J​onathon: Its not in inv Helenah: oh specing: is minetest-mods where unmaintained mods go to die? 11J​onathon: You need to use /give Helenah: Aaaah 11J​onathon: Specing: well no but actually yes Helenah: Got it Helenah: Thanks 11J​onathon: Officially its community long term support of mods, but yeah, like only 1/2 have activity Helenah: How far apart would I be best putting these? 11J​onathon: And it also suffers from the typical minetest official issues specing: Some person also complained to me that their mod got put there and then diverged from their development 11J​onathon: Well, was it forked or did they transfer the repo? sfan5: Helenah: one every 16 nodes 11J​onathon: At any rate, seems to be a issue that should be first taken up with the minetest core devs Helenah: I'm assuming the radius is in nodes sfan5: yes rubenwardy: minetest-mods isn't run officially rubenwardy: it just happens to have some overlap tango_: specing: rubenwardy: thanks I'll look into them specing: Jonathon neither 11J​onathon: Specing: then what?.... 11J​onathon: Ruben: it is unofficially official pretty much specing: it got put there and diverged 11J​onathon: If it was open source, and they give attributation per the license thats allowed? 11J​onathon: Other than a i dont like that, not much one can do 11J​onathon: They could ask and see if the owners of that org are willing to take it down, but provided they followed liscense terms they dont have to. Unless im missing something? NAL tho rubenwardy: what are you talking about? 11J​onathon: Some person also complained to me that their mod got put there and then diverged from their development 11J​onathon: That sfan5: (there = minetest-mods) 11J​onathon: There == minetest mods rubenwardy: which mod is this? 11J​onathon: No idea, ask specing rubenwardy: minetest-mods doesn't add mods without permission, except in rare situations specing: J​onathon It's perfectly legal... just not very cool specing: I don't know which mod it was 11J​onathon: Oh, i would agree(dont know all the facts tho) rubenwardy: it's been done when the author has been missing for years, and there were multiple competing forks 11J​onathon: Who officially owns the minetest mods github org anyways? rubenwardy: it's jointly owned between a few people rubenwardy: individual mods are owned by the creator rubenwardy: The idea is that you maintain the mod as usual, but if you go missing you're in an organisation that can recover the repo / maintain for you rubenwardy: This is more of a problem pre-CDB really tango_: is there a way to have sloping rails? tango_: like handrails next to a staircase rubenwardy: yes, with meshnodes Helenah: How do I put corner on steps? I'm trying to build a roof, pyramid roof, I did what I normally do in Minecraft but no luck. :/ rubenwardy: I can't remember if MTG has a corner stair, because I don't play it rubenwardy: but I think moreblocks with if MTG doesn't rubenwardy: *will Calinou: moreblocks definitely has that Calinou: not sure about the minetest_game stairs mod 11G​reenXenith: MTG has it 11G​reenXenith: You use a recipe to obtain them-- outer stair is 3 across with 1 above center, inner stair is all except one of the top corners (I think) 11G​reenXenith: scratch that, inner stair is like a boat (3 across bottom, 2 on either side middle) with a centered on top 11G​reenXenith: talk about unintuitive 11J​onathon: tango_: homedecor banister 11J​onathon: like this? 11J​onathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/789220529089019904/unknown.png tango_: Helenah: corner stair are like slab + one block in the middle on the row above tango_: oh ok it was aready answered tango_: jonathon interesting thanks 11J​onathon: np Verticen: Is there any way to play minetest in simple sterioscopic 3d? Just a simple side-by-side screen split would be fine - I can handle the rest. Is there a mod out there that can do this? minduser00: Verticen: look at the minetest settings, menu Client/Graphics/Inside game/advanced/ minduser00: there is a setting 3d-mode Verticen: Thank you! tango_: Calinou: for moreblocks there is actually one more old recipe that needs updating, that would be the rails one. However the changes in default are considerably more extensive, so it probably needs more reasoning on how to “expand” it for moreblocks. shall I open an issue about this on github? Helenah: I don't like the way the authentication systems work on Minetest. Helenah: It's horrible when I want to control who can be a member and who can't. Helenah: One can simply click "Register", type their password in again and voila... Helenah: I installed NoNew mod, but it isn't the solution I want. Helenah: I don't want one to create an account, the server kick them then purge their account, I don't see this as secure but rather hacky. Helenah: What I'm wanting to do is disable the registration function in its entirety and I manually add users to a database. You see, my minetest server isn't for the public, it's for my club members to play with each other. tango_: Helenah: there are a couple of solutions tango_: Helenah: one way to do it is to set a default password tango_: then new users would have to know that password, or they will be rejected tango_: then you can either give the default password to your club members, or add them manually Helenah: tango_: So... user foo types "foo" install the username field and bar into the password field where bar is always the default password that was set? tango_: Helenah: they can change their password afterwards tango_: or if you add them manually just give them a different password and they'll login with that tango_: my friends are I are using this mechanism Helenah: tango_: I want to add them manually. tango_: then don't give them the default password Helenah: Okay Helenah: tango_: What is rollback recording? tango_: Helenah: whtat? tango_: what? Helenah: tango_: A config option called enable_rollback_recording tango_: Helenah: not sure about the details, but it basically records the actions taken so that they can be rolled back in case of failures Helenah: oh nice tango_: Helenah: eh, depends on which mods you use, tango_: see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2335 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6577 Helenah: tango_: Read Helenah: tango_: I might have put it in the wrong place, but minetest.conf has ignored "default_password Helenah: I was able to get onto the server Helenah: Oh, actually it works! So accounts are still created even with NoNew?! That's bad... that mod is gone now anyway. tango_: good Helenah: tango_: How do I remove an account? I've found out how to create one. tango_: Helenah: no idea Helenah: tango_: Apparently I've to edit auth.sqlite :/ Helenah: I might write something Helenah: I don't wanna manually mess around with a database... that's crazy. Helenah: I found something that looked interesting though, a function to make minetest use a custom authentication handler. rubenwardy: [11:11] <558b2fHelenah> I don't want one to create an account, the server kick them then purge their account, I don't see this as secure but rather hacky rubenwardy: This isn't how it worked. The account is never created rubenwardy: [11:12] What I'm wanting to do is disable the registration function in its entirety and I manually add users to a database. You see, my minetest server isn't for the public, it's for my club members to play with each other. rubenwardy: You can do this with a custom authentication handler rubenwardy: Rejecting a player in Prejoin will mean their account is never created rubenwardy: Although, they still see the form I guess rubenwardy: With a custom auth handler, you would prevent them from seeing that form rubenwardy: See register_auth_handler in lua_api rubenwardy: Also, don't put your server on the serverlist if it's not for the public rubenwardy: Sauth is an example of a custom auth handler backed by an sqlite database rubenwardy: Actually, setting a default password would probably have a similar effect to this whilst keeping the existing database rubenwardy: Ok, it may actually create an auth row for the user but not a profile when rejected Helenah: If I was to write a better authentication system for minetest, would you accept it? specing: > Helenah | I don't wanna manually mess around with a database... that's crazy. specing: well, actually specing: you could make a nice webapp for manually adding users specing: or an IRC bot Helenah: specing: Yeah, I was thinking of writing something like that. Helenah: rubenwardy: I've looked into the register_auth_handler already, it's nice. specing: and, since it uses a db, you should be able to do it without touching MT source at all Helenah: specing: Well for one, the auth system tells people why they were rejected ie "invalid password", you know that's a security vulnerability, right? Helenah: That hints the person what to bruteforce allowing them to know they entered an existing username. Helenah: This is bad. rubenwardy: That's called user enumeration Helenah: It should be changed to "access denied" or something like that Helenah: That way they've to guess whether the username or the password is incorrect. rubenwardy: You can usually user enumerate using user registration rubenwardy: If that's possible, then there's no need to protect against username enumeration on login rubenwardy: Well, registration could be disabled Helenah: rubenwardy: Thing is... I set a default password but now I'm having to change the message to "access denied" cause when a user tries to register, they get "invalid password" and I don't want them figuring out what I did... Helenah: rubenwardy: So how do I simply disable it? Helenah: It isn't actually disabled when a default password is set. specing: Helenah: How is that a vulnerability? specing: it's not Helenah: specing: How is it not? Helenah: You are telling the person "invalid password" which is true. specing: Helenah: you can scrape the master server list for usernames, and then bruteforce them when they are not logged in Helenah: Surely you don't tell your attacker they got a password wrong but leave them in the lurk wondering what they did wrong. sfan5: it's a vulnerability if your scenario is to deny new users without leaking the info that they require a password Helenah: sfan5: That's the point sfan5: ..but that's not a common scenario Helenah: and will be the point for a lot of people wanting a closed up server. Helenah: Surely Helenah: Lets say you got a website and a login feature, surely you don't tell the person attempting to sign in where they went wrong but rather just deny them and tell them they were denied but not why they were denied. rubenwardy: Depends Helenah: rubenwardy: On what? Calinou: tango_: sure :) rubenwardy: What information you're protecting against Helenah: rubenwardy: The information I'm protecting against ofc! Helenah: It's that simple rubenwardy: ContentDB tells you if your username doesn't exist because you can already enumerate usernames publically Helenah: surely Helenah: rubenwardy: So allow them to think "Oh I need to enumerate" Helenah: Don't like hint them into doing so as they might have not thought "Lets enumerate" rubenwardy: With minetest accounts, you can enumerate if registration is enabled specing: I wish there was a common auth db shared to all servers Calinou: to be fair, the message could be changed to "invalid username or password" specing: so I didn't have to register in every new server Calinou: but I wouldn't go further than that Helenah: specing: If people want it them yes rubenwardy: I don't think it's a good idea to reduce user experience for the sake of security theatre Helenah: But that should be a choice for the person hosting the server Helenah: Not enforced specing: Helenah: it should be enforced Helenah: ... Calinou: I doubt anyone will go through the length of enumerating usernames to bruteforce their passwords on a game where no money is involved rubenwardy: "ivalid username or password" makes sense if registration is disabled, which is something you want to support specing: you log-in to the lobby, and then the lobby auths you to servers Calinou: this isn't Steam account cracking, it's an open source game with no paid in-game items Helenah: Why are we bringing open source vs proprietary vs real money into the discussion? rubenwardy: The Minetest login system does need to change to separate register and login, because currently it's confusing Helenah: rubenwardy: Also allow for a server to not accept registrations. Helenah: With that, you'd hit the Register feature for that server within the client. Helenah: *hide rubenwardy: Exactly, you require that separation in order to properly disable it Helenah: Now onto what specing was saying... Helenah: If someone wants their server to be a member of a public lobby of servers Helenah: Then they've to set it I think Helenah: One example is I like to log into Minetest servers as "Helenah" Helenah: but I noticed on some of them, that username is taken cause of how simple it is. Helenah: So I choose another one for those particular servers. specing: I also wish for rules to be published somewhere before you register/login specing: maybe as another json tag in the master list Helenah: specing: Surely rules should be down to the admins of the server. Helenah: Not the minetest community specing: yes specing: What I meant was a way for the rules to be published on the server list Helenah: Ah, sorry I may have misunderstood that part. Helenah: Yes, that would be good Helenah: You register, and you've to agree to rules, like how WoW does it with their TOS and EULA but in this case, it would be server rules. Calinou: "real money" is a big incentive for people cracking into accounts Helenah: I'm for that feature Calinou: it's why it's heavily advised to use 2FA for a Steam account :) specing: Helenah: it could/should be before registration Calinou: even Minecraft accounts aren't that cheap, with the game being sold for €26 Helenah: specing: Yeah, that's a good point actually. specing: Helenah: there was a server that presented me with a rules formspec when I joined. It even kicked me when I pressed disagree :P Calinou: in other words, trust in https://xkcd.com/538 rubenwardy: I use such a formspec Helenah: rubenwardy: Which formspec are you using? rubenwardy: https://github.com/mt-ctf/rules Helenah: "1. No swearing, dating, or other inappriopriate behaviour.", Helenah: Lol "dating" haha Helenah: Sorry.. I should laugh... Helenah: Anyway, thank you for linking me to that rubenwardy :) rubenwardy: Immature kids pretend to date Helenah: *shouldn't rubenwardy: It's annoying to everyone, so banned Helenah: Ah Helenah: rubenwardy: What's wrong with a bit of play though? Helenah: I'm a kitty cat on my server! specing: It's a dating sandbox! Helenah: rubenwardy: Theres even the "courtyard of cock" Helenah: Is there an offtopic channel? * Helenah: checks topic Helenah: No, there isn't, but I'll stop saying things like this. tango_: Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/issues/162 tried to gather all the info I could rubenwardy: This channel is basically offtopic rubenwardy: It's unmoderated Helenah: Oh phew Helenah: phew rubenwardy: Well, as in not a moderated strict chat. There are still moderators Helenah: Anyway, outside the tower for trapping maidens, theres a signs adverting a job offer for anyone who wants to provide their titties. tango_: which is perfectly fine if that's what you want your server to be about tango_: otoh I can see why rubenwardy wouldn't want shenanigans on theirs rubenwardy: The rules on CTF were quite lax to begin with, but then I had a few parents complain Helenah: rubenwardy: Well that's fair enough if you intend for peoples kids to go on there as well as adults. Helenah: Though mine is a private server and there will be no unauthorised people on there specing: rubenwardy: parents? really? Helenah: and the way my principles are is... we shouldn't be hiding children away from things so even if a 2 year old went on there and a parent complained to me that there was swearing or sex or whatever, I'd ignore it. rubenwardy: I don't really play CTF, the rules and general management are handled by other people now rubenwardy: If I were to make a new server, I wouldn't cater to kids quite so much - I'd still ban sexual behaviour and stuff but swearing is a big part of communication rubenwardy: You could also make the server less appealing to them. CTF is peak for that, given the trend for PvP Helenah: rubenwardy: Yeah, as a 4 year old, I knew of terms like "fuck" and "shit" and "pedophile" and through knowing these terms as I young age I was then taught boundaries which I have as an adult. rubenwardy: The code behind CTF was originally written to be used in a kingdom Vs kingdom game, where players make different castles or whatever Helenah: If we hid children from this stuff until they were 18, they would be vulgar. Helenah: Cause they'd have no boundaries with it. rubenwardy: I don't think it's about hiding so much as not normalising quite so much lmat: I'm making a road way up in the sky. How should I make the offramps? I see that I can make roads:asphault_stairs, but galvanized fencing doesn't follow the steps down... any ideas? Helenah: How do I convert technic HV to MV and to LV? Helenah: o.o Helenah: It seems... transformers are built into the machines... Helenah: But I don't wanna have to run all three cable types everywhere... SwissalpS: converters is what they are called, iirc. input on top and output at bottom Helenah: Oh, supply converter. Helenah: SwissalpS: Can it... convert HV to LV? SwissalpS: you can convert LV to HV too, yes that way too Helenah: Sorry, there isn't much documentation. SwissalpS: what some forget is to put switching station on both networks Helenah: Wait... Helenah: So lets say... Helenah: I have an HV network and an LV network connected together, I've to put a switching station on both? o.o SwissalpS: yes, one for HV and one for LV. The converters 'connect' Helenah: So, converter between the two switching stations? SwissalpS: I say converters bc mostly you want more than one. each can convert max 10kEU SwissalpS: one SS on HV cable which is on top of converters, one SS on LV cable which is on bottom of converters Helenah: How do I pick up a mobs_animal? Helenah: The documentation says they can be "picked up" but doesn't say "how". Helenah: Oh it has to be tamed, right SwissalpS: I've set up an extensive mobs tutorial on pandorabox.io SwissalpS: oc only the mobs used there Helenah: SwissalpS: Appareciated, I wanted to say the documentation is poor but I held back. SwissalpS: yeah, kinda why I made an in-game tutorial Helenah: Why is the AI in mobs_redo soo stupid? 11J​onathon: give mobkit a chance? Helenah: Okies Helenah: Jonathon, mobs don't spawn in front of you and then despawn when you turn around, right? rubenwardy: because it's naively implemented rubenwardy: mobkit looks better, although the API is a mess Helenah: rubenwardy: What about the behaviour of the AI? Helenah: Does it stay spawned when you are around? rubenwardy: the behaviour seems to be better Helenah: I mean the other day I watched a crocodile turn into a shark, turned my back on it, it vanished... rubenwardy: as for staying spawned, that's may be the engine killing mapblocks too quickly rubenwardy: you can try increasing the active range rubenwardy: it could also just be mobs redo Helenah: rubenwardy: When I turned my back, I didn't mean I walked away, I mean I just turned Helenah: so why would the mapblock become unloaded? rubenwardy: I understand that - the engine uses your look direction to increase the load distance in that direction rubenwardy: but that shouldn't unload things near you Helenah: rubenwardy: I'd say the shark was 5 blocks away from me Helenah: So it's probably mobs_redo then Helenah: Jonathon: mobkit sounds to be incomplete. Helenah: rubenwardy: ^ rubenwardy: yes rubenwardy: everything is incomplete rubenwardy: mobkit is also just an API, there's mods that use it: https://content.minetest.net/metapackages/mobkit/ hecks: So how do you skin item slots in forms and the hud? Is that even possible? sfan5: gui_hotbar.png gui_hotbar_selected.png, dunno to which extent those are configurable hecks: recommended size? hecks: gui_hotbar provided by the game is somehow ignored hecks: oh it's api hecks: hud_set_hotbar_image perrier: mob_chance_multiplier do higher numbers mean less mobs or more? tango_: cripes, getting rid of flowing water underwater is nontrivial perrier: I think the update to unified inventory this morning deleted my bag. SwissalpS: perrier: it's 1 out of x chance SwissalpS: so x = 1 would mean every time Gustavo6046: Is it just me or are caves spawning on every power of 2 depth? Gustavo6046: Hawk777: unless we abstract the scripting API in a glue-code-agnostic way. Gustavo6046: Although that will be difficult, given Lua's idiosyncrasies. Gustavo6046: We could also target a more "common" format, like WebAssembly, and let the developer choose the language. Hawk777: That sounds nice TBH. But it would still require maintaining two scripting connections (unless Lua has a WASM backend?) in order to not break everything that ever existed, and I’d personally still rather the core devs spent their time on other choices from the pile of open tickets. Hawk777: Abstracting things doesn’t help the matter because the MT devs would still have to maintain the abstraction and its two implementations. Hawk777: I’d say it’s also beneficial that, with only a single language option, modders can all read each other’s code. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: it is not necessary, if we can create the Lua backend as mere glue code for a universal scripting API Gustavo6046: I THINK it would be easier to have the legacy API untouched Gustavo6046: but Lua-only Hawk777: You keep saying “mere glue code” as if mere glue code doesn’t need maintenance :) Gustavo6046: and have the universal API have all these goodies Gustavo6046: Hawk777: it doesn't Gustavo6046: The moving parts it glues do. Gustavo6046: And we don't maintain Lua, do we? Hawk777: Well, I guess we disagree then. Gustavo6046: The Lua glue code would allow access for both the universal API and the legacy API. Sounds convoluted, but it's for a reason -- it makes it only one part that needs to be maintained with respect to changing Lua versions. Hawk777: Changing Lua versions? I thought the core devs had already decided they would never go beyond Lua 5.1 because of compat breaks in the Lua stdlib. Gustavo6046: Lua is very, very awful when it comes to backward compatibility, which is just yet another reason I would gradually phase it out, or at least give it less attention or something, in favour of JavaScript. Hawk777: I.e. stuff which has nothing to do with Minetest being taken away and breaking mods/games. Gustavo6046: Welp Gustavo6046: I already stated Gustavo6046: The legacy API will be left untouched Gustavo6046: so existing mods and games will work perfectly Gustavo6046: PLUS, this also guarantees they will never break! Gustavo6046: In the universal API we can emphasize on long-term forawrd/backward compatibility Gustavo6046: by making certain features behave differently depending on the API version Hawk777: And… now you have a translation layer, which implements the legacy API in terms of the new API. And every time you rework the new API, you have to update the translation layer to match. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: nono Gustavo6046: the legacy API does not need to be implemented in terms of the new API Gustavo6046: Both are interfaces to the game's mechanics Hawk777: OK… so now every time you want to refactor game engine internals, you have to update both consumers instead of just one? Gustavo6046: psst Gustavo6046: glue code :PP Gustavo6046: lol Gustavo6046: I think I'm starting to get your point. Gustavo6046: Being modular is good Gustavo6046: Instead of updating the consumers, just have them access the game's interface? So the game mechanics will themselves be responsible to maintain backwards compatibility, to not break either. Gustavo6046: We can still deprecate features, but if we remove any we must reflect that in both API codes. Gustavo6046: I think "glue code" is a bit misleading, C++ does it for you in the form of classes -- templating, abstract classes, the numerous ways to perform dynamic dispatching... you get the point. Hawk777: Sure. You can only make that if you can predict the shapes of things well enough to make it future-proof. 05e​xe_virus: Also we're stuck at 5.1 lua anyways, because the just in time compiler is at 5.1 Gustavo6046: Hawk777: it's easier if the game internals are separated from the details exposed to the scripting engine. So, say, if in the future "mapblocks" are internally reinvented as "chunks" or whatever, the scripts can still refer to the new ones as they have ever done to the old ones. To the modder, they're still as mappy and blocky as they've ever been. Gustavo6046: Yeah, LuaJIT's main contributor has retired from the project 05e​xe_virus: And JIT lua is only 30% slower than straight up C code. And no, he came back early this year Gustavo6046: So don't expect much updates to come from that Gustavo6046: oh? 05e​xe_virus: Yeah he's working on the garbage collector Gustavo6046: JS has a more active scene and community. That and other reasons is why I think it would be far more modder-friendly. If you ask me, anyway. 05e​xe_virus: JS is the most moving target in the universe Gustavo6046: But including it without breaking existing mods nor doubling the required effort will be complicated. We'll need a battle plan. Gustavo6046: exe_virus: yes it is Gustavo6046: but we don't need to support the new ESes Gustavo6046: We can use an embedded interpreter, like QuickJS 05e​xe_virus: Then why leave lua, we don't need to support 5.2+ Gustavo6046: It's not just about that 05e​xe_virus: QuickJS will be slower Gustavo6046: JavaScript is more programmer-friendly Gustavo6046: Yes, but not by a significant amount Hawk777: No. 05e​xe_virus: Lua is pretty damn friendly Gustavo6046: Lua is not programmer-friendly, at all. Hawk777: I’m a programmer, and I like Javascript less than Lua, ergo you are wrong. blaise: javascript is shit. Gustavo6046: Many Lua programmers have departed for JavaScript. Hawk777: See how this is all personal opinions? Gustavo6046: Hawk777: hm Gustavo6046: that is a point Gustavo6046: People will inevitably have different opinions Hawk777: “Which language is better?” is always a personal opinion thing. Gustavo6046: Yeah 05e​xe_virus: I have done both, and C, and java, and so on. Lua is perfect for mods, and javascript is made for web, simply put Gustavo6046: exe_virus: JavaScript was made to be an embeddable scripting language, in this case for web browsers. Gustavo6046: Legends say it would be more Lua-like, if Netscape hadn't demanded it be "more Java-like". 05e​xe_virus: Fair but it's made with the assumption of multithreaded blaise: nah, ANSI C (C#) is miles better than turbo pascal, or basic, or many others Gustavo6046: Hence the name 05e​xe_virus: Everything in games is basically single threaded blaise: that isn't an opinion. Gustavo6046: Isn't JavaScript single-thread-only? (and async) Gustavo6046: Kinda like Python's GIL Gustavo6046: blaise: C# != C Gustavo6046: C# is kinda bad Gustavo6046: exe_virus: JS is single-threaded specing: someone been badmouthing lua? blaise: it's a standard that all other implementations of C are expected to conform to Gustavo6046: It uses an event loop to make more use of that CPU usage Hawk777: WTF? “C# is kinda bad”? I’m not the biggest fan of it, but at least it’s statically typed, which JS isn’t. Gustavo6046: I think it supports more threads, though 05e​xe_virus: Ah, that makes sense Gustavo6046: Hawk777: good point Hawk777: Um no, C# and C are totally different languages. 05e​xe_virus: Truth Gustavo6046: blaise: C# is a Java-like language designed by Microsoft Gustavo6046: I think you're thinking of C++. Gustavo6046: C and C++ are both standardized. 05e​xe_virus: Java ~= javascript Gustavo6046: I couldn't care the least about regulatory bodies like ANSI. blaise: borland C is completely different from C... 04o​neplustwo: C# just has four plusses instead of two 05e​xe_virus: C++ is still, to this day, a cluster though Gustavo6046: They can shove their shiny language standards and revisions up their own Firewire ports for all I care. 05e​xe_virus: Like I would expect all the implementations to be standardized by now, but nope. Gustavo6046: exe_virus: true Gustavo6046: Different C++ standard libraries have wildly different ranges of support blaise: it's kind of insane.. Gustavo6046: It does happen a bit with things like JavaScript too, though 05e​xe_virus: And I'm a fan of C++, but like dang, why can't it be simple yet Gustavo6046: I imagine not with Lua since it has an ACTUAL reference implementation. Gustavo6046: exe_virus: C++ is complicated by definition. Literally. It's a LOT more complicated to parse and compile than C. Gustavo6046: I'm fine with it, but I think C++ is not superior to C, because it has tradebacks. Gustavo6046: Especially when it comes to size. C++ is a behemoth, which is usually not a Very Good Thing(TM). blaise: indeed 05e​xe_virus: True, though I mean chromium is the best example of what c++ can be blaise: but everything has it's use case.. Hawk777: Personally when I tried writing some code in C after working in C++ for a long time, I was just so sad about how much boilerplate I had to write. Hawk777: Really? No RAII? Hawk777: Sadness. 05e​xe_virus: Its like 10MB of total power Gustavo6046: blaise: that is true Gustavo6046: Hawk777: that is true Gustavo6046: quite a bit of boilerplate in C Gustavo6046: I'm not a fan of boilerplate either Gustavo6046: But I think you're supposed to do the boilerplate only in some parts of the code (main-level or something) Gustavo6046: and then you write the meat and potatoes of the program in a lower level, without classes or whatnot. blaise: Gustavo6046: you could always go pure assembly? XD Gustavo6046: blaise: true Gustavo6046: but C is basically a prettified assembly Gustavo6046: there's little point in using assembly rather than C Hawk777: No no, it’s things like resource management. With C you have to remember to manually release resources (free memory, close file handles, whatever) in both the success and failure paths. In C++ both are handled by RAII. Gustavo6046: especially today with C compilers often optimizing the code more than a manual assembly programmer could ever do on their own Gustavo6046: Hawk777: only for heap-allocated objects Gustavo6046: local variables are automatically handled by scope blaise: yeah, well.. C wouldn't have gotten to where it's at without people that know how to code in ASM Gustavo6046: you'd be surprised how much stuff can be moved to the stack. Gustavo6046: (and faster than heap) Hawk777: File handles can’t be “moved to the stack”. Hawk777: Nor can dynamically sized containers. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: true and true Gustavo6046: those do get a bit boilerplatey Gustavo6046: I think std::vector was one of the first things C++ had? Gustavo6046: specifically because of that Gustavo6046: Whoa Gustavo6046: this lua API is beautiful Gustavo6046: I don't know what i was expecting 04o​neplustwo: define 'beauty' 04o​neplustwo: personally, i hate lua Gustavo6046: it looks extraordinarily clean Gustavo6046: I mean, compared to ordinary Lua code Gustavo6046: it almost doesn't look lie Lua Gustavo6046: like* 04o​neplustwo: so by inheritance, i hate the lua api Gustavo6046: oneplustwo: you were smiling in chat up to this point, weren't you. Gustavo6046: There's no such thing 04o​neplustwo: smiling? 04o​neplustwo: at what? Gustavo6046: at me trash talking Lua Gustavo6046: I don't like Lua Gustavo6046: but this API is a pretty good Gustavo6046: design 04o​neplustwo: why would i smile? Gustavo6046: happiness? Gustavo6046: approval? 09s​rinivas: lol 11I​hrFussel: IMO Lua has the simplest syntax out of every scripting language I ever learned or tried 04o​neplustwo: the only thing i smile at is when i delete the print statements and stack overflow tabs after i finish debugging 04o​neplustwo: i dont understand why they have to use "end" to end a function Gustavo6046: too simple Gustavo6046: oneplustwo: yeah I like that feeling too Gustavo6046: like "ahh, finally I figured out this bloody bugger" Gustavo6046: Helenah: do I sound british enough? :P Gustavo6046: (I'm not) 11I​hrFussel: Bash uses 'fi' which makes even less sense (yeah I know if backwards but no actual word) 04o​neplustwo: if you want to sound british, you either need to emulate the upper-class or the coal miners, no in-between Gustavo6046: lol Gustavo6046: oneplustwo: you mean the distinction lies at y=-1024? Gustavo6046: So Gustavo6046: how do I assign a timeout to a farming:soil? Gustavo6046: Is the param2 vacant? Gustavo6046: or something? 09s​rinivas: nodeetimers? 09s​rinivas: *nodetimers Gustavo6046: I probably want to learn how to get a block's parameter with the api first Gustavo6046: Well, I wanted it to be a parameter of the block Gustavo6046: If it has air above, it decrements till it reaches 0, then I can do stuff on the block. Gustavo6046: above it* Gustavo6046: If it doesn't, the timer is reset to a N 09s​rinivas: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ Gustavo6046: ? 09s​rinivas: a nice prettified api reference Gustavo6046: Ah 09s​rinivas: may be useful for you Gustavo6046: thanks! 11I​hrFussel: Node parameters cannot be changed during runtime...to have additional dynamic data use nodemeta blaise: I do like GO blaise: it's nifty.. :) Gustavo6046: Golang? Gustavo6046: Mehh. Gustavo6046: It's fine. blaise: grinch 09s​rinivas: while we are at new api fantasies, i would like to start a shitstorm by suggesting python 09s​rinivas: forces clean indentation 11I​hrFussel: But I code using nano 09s​rinivas: tata nano? 09s​rinivas: pardon me blaise: hahahaha blaise: nano... what a crying shame 09s​rinivas: but what is it? 09s​rinivas: oof 11I​hrFussel: GNU nano only allows a few tabs per screen 09s​rinivas: rip blaise: it's the text entry program from the pine MTA 09s​rinivas: ah 09s​rinivas: thanks 09s​rinivas: brain fart there 09s​rinivas: sorry blaise: they seperated it when alpine became a thing Gustavo6046: So like this? Gustavo6046: https://termbin.com/2apr blaise: most people only used it when dialed into a bbs via modem or terminal node controler/packet access Gustavo6046: although Gustavo6046: I modified existing cocde Gustavo6046: https://github.com/PilzAdam/farming_plus/blob/master/weed.lua is the original blaise: these days we have much better tools to work with.. vim or emacs being amongst the most popular Gustavo6046: I use micro Gustavo6046: not vim or emacs or nano Gustavo6046: but vim is fine I guess 09s​rinivas: i use gedit 09s​rinivas: light and fast 09s​rinivas: with awesome synctex Gustavo6046: when it comes to GUI tools I either use mousepad (for writing simple text files or tiny projects) or VS Code (the OSS fork) 09s​rinivas: with awesome synctex Gustavo6046: discord has s/// syntax, doesn't it? blaise: Gustavo6046: micro? Gustavo6046: it should let you double-check your edits, and support editing messages other than the last Gustavo6046: blaise: yeah Gustavo6046: it's written in go I think blaise: url? blaise: I prefer vim Gustavo6046: https://micro-editor.github.io/ Gustavo6046: eh I prefer micro Gustavo6046: it's simpler to use, but not necesasrily stripped down like nano Gustavo6046: and has a plugin interface, kinda like Vim does 11I​hrFussel: nano is my choice cause it is very barebones while still supporting the most needed features (search by term/line, replace, syntax highlighting) blaise: interesting Gustavo6046: but anyways Hawk777: Are we just having all the holy wars at the same time in this channel now? We’ve done programming languages, now we’re on text editors, I suppose tabs-vs-spaces will show up next. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: xD Gustavo6046: I like 4 spaces Hawk777: I like tabs. Gustavo6046: I think spaces have already won a long time ago-- Hawk777: But rendered as four spaces. Gustavo6046: oh. blaise: CRLF vs CR Gustavo6046: Exactly Hawk777: Oh no, another one! 11I​hrFussel: I like newlines Gustavo6046: I like tabs but CONVERTED to four spaces. blaise: heh Gustavo6046: IhrFussel: I like BEL Gustavo6046: fite me Gustavo6046: fite me and my typewriter with a literal physical bell! Gustavo6046: dingdingding blaise: :D blaise: how about irc clients? Hawk777: I don’t like the converted. I feel that storing as TAB means I’m being nice to people reading my code, because depending on their eyesight, the nature of their brain, the size of their monitor, font size, font selection, etc. etc. etc. they can choose whatever indentation level per scope they find makes the code easiest to read, without modifying the physical file. Gustavo6046: I think there's a right way to store indentation Gustavo6046: screw individualism /s Gustavo6046: just kidding Gustavo6046: I just don't like there being a separate character specifically to store indentation * blaise: uses kvirc for GUI, but in CLI will use EPIC with amnesiac script Gustavo6046: or generalizing indentation as tabulation at all Gustavo6046: I use weechat for IRC Gustavo6046: I also use Manjaro Linux, don't murder me over it blaise: heh * blaise: uses gentoo 11I​hrFussel: I use...discord for IRC Hawk777: Gentoo FTW. Gustavo6046: Also Gustavo6046: tabs can screw up code if it's posted online Gustavo6046: like in a pastebin or something Gustavo6046: or in forums Gustavo6046: I'd rather expand directly in the file than do it every single time to share it online blaise: depends on the service and tool blaise: hastebin actually does pretty good with it Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: yeah but hastebin is good Hawk777: So can spaces if you’re using a shitty web service (i.e. one that doesn’t have support for preformatted code so all multiple spaces turn into a single space per HTML rules). And if you use a nonshitty one, tabs are fine. Gustavo6046: too bad it's kind of down often but still blaise: wgetpaste and dpaste tends to muck it up pretty bad Gustavo6046: good services Gustavo6046: Hawk777: nah Gustavo6046: most of them don't allow configuring tabs Gustavo6046: (which is why you prefer tabs to begin with, isn't it? user configurability) Gustavo6046: in fact, I'd say MOST programs and places in general don't allow configuring tabs, except for text editors and some programming-specific places (like GitHub) Gustavo6046: It's just not a very common concern. blaise: Gustavo6046: you can set up your own hastebin server.. Gustavo6046: blaise: I'm referring to the main service, but yeah I forgot about that detail blaise: :) Hawk777: Just because one specific tool that might be used for viewing a file doesn’t allow configuring tab width, doesn’t mean I should avoid catering to the other 99% of tools that do (i.e. just because web services don’t, doesn’t mean I should harm people using text editors, which are by far the more common way to look at source code files) Gustavo6046: :D Gustavo6046: Hawk777: except, it's not tooling Gustavo6046: it's everything else Gustavo6046: tabs are not very popular nowadays Gustavo6046: ASCII control characters are overrated blaise: as far as coding, there was a tool I liked using in X considerably more than working from CLI Gustavo6046: they're a fad, a relic from a distant past blaise: can't remember what it was called but it supported pretty much everything Gustavo6046: I'm glad Unicode does not include extra tabulation. Gustavo6046: (I think it doesn't) Gustavo6046: Horizontal tabulation, thati Gustavo6046: s Hawk777: It’s a freaking text file. There’s the language interpreter, which doesn’t care one way or the other, and there are text editors and viewers, which by and large allow configuring tab size. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: no they don't Gustavo6046: most don't Gustavo6046: or do Gustavo6046: I guess most text editors do Hawk777: Let’s see. vim does. emacs does. notepad++ does. Visual Studio Code does. Gustavo6046: micro does too Gustavo6046: but the thing is blaise: maybe it was visual studio code? Gustavo6046: you don't want your code to only be readable in the text editor Gustavo6046: what if you have to email patches to a mailing list and have it be reviewed? Gustavo6046: what if you want it to put in any of the hundred pastebin services available online to show others? Gustavo6046: "[pastebin link] look at how big my wiener is!" "lol what" "oh wait... it's kind of... deflated. ew. what." blaise: Gustavo6046: most people expect diff format blaise: seriously Gustavo6046: ? blaise: anything other than that is insulting Gustavo6046: what does that have to do with tabs or spacers Hawk777: If I want to show other people my files, I’ll push them to a Git repo and they can clone it thank you very much. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: just use github gist blaise: "what if you have to email patches to a mailing list and have it be reviewed? blaise: " Gustavo6046: or termbin Gustavo6046: I am in a haste Gustavo6046: don't have time to open up A BROWSER just to put code up in the webz Gustavo6046: blaise: yes Gustavo6046: talking about email clients blaise: ah... Gustavo6046: which there are hundreds upon hundreds of that are used by lots of people blaise: I run postfix and sendmail manually from the cli blaise: XD Gustavo6046: including community managers and project maintainers and reviewers and whatnot Hawk777: Besides, if I put it on the web with four spaces, anyone who finds four spaces suboptimal to read is still s*** out of luck. Gustavo6046: oh yest Gustavo6046: the CLI Gustavo6046: the biggest felonies you can have in tab land. Hawk777: Except now anyone who finds it suboptimal to read is *still* out of luck even if they read from a text editor. blaise: just kidding, I use claws Hawk777: blaise: Are you sure you’re not my clone? Gustavo6046: somehow they are all born in the very crib that tabs vs spaces was born at to begin with. Hawk777: Gentoo *and* claws? Gustavo6046: the good old teletypewriter. blaise: lol Gustavo6046: geez that's pointy, put those claws away from me Gustavo6046: lol blaise: it's the only email client I can find that properly supports proper certificate checking and gpg Gustavo6046: micro has tabstospaces (which I just set to false) but no spacestotabs Gustavo6046: Hawk777: Noh!~ I would feel defeated if I were to succumb to tabulation devices this easily! Me of all people! Gustavo6046: blaise: I use mutt and exim Gustavo6046: using Gmail as a router so I don't have to mess with ISP level stuff Gustavo6046: by the way send some random stuff to contact@gustavo6046.cf just to make sure it still works, I transitioned the DNS handling from Freenom to FreeDNS lately Gustavo6046: (the domain still is Freenom though, and it's a temporary one) Gustavo6046: (except it's until I get a source of income, so "temporary" is a bit optimistic) blaise: I host my own postfix/dovcot kitbash Hawk777: Exim+Dovecot for me. Hawk777: I have run Postfix, but found Exim a little easier. blaise: I need to renew my certificates, actually Hawk777: No automation with LetsEncrypt for you? Gustavo6046: I host local exim Gustavo6046: I don't like going knee deep in stuff I don't know Gustavo6046: I like experimenting a little at a time blaise: I didn't know about exim, I'll check it out Gustavo6046: I also don't like too traditional/oldschool methods, like the very mature GNU/BSD stuff Gustavo6046: blaise: I probably didn't need it Gustavo6046: it's more powerful and extremely flexible, but not as simple, so it's more suitable if you need more flexibility than postfix can offer, I've heard blaise: mostly I just need to be able to whitelist, and report attempted abuse to spamassasin.. XD Gustavo6046: I still don't know how to commit and how often. Is it every little change, or everytime I implement something fully? Is it okay to implement a feature when I didn't test it, with a description like "Feature feature", and maybe commit fixes later with a description like "Fixed feature featured", "Fixed feature feature again", ...? Gustavo6046: blaise: do you use fail2ban? blaise: yeah, of course.. * Gustavo6046: bonks his head against the keyhole of blaise's mail server Gustavo6046: ow blaise: you don't even know my hostname.. XD Gustavo6046: I know lol Gustavo6046: I'm just kidding you Gustavo6046: I wonder how important security is if nobody knows your IP, especially if you're behind a CGNAT like me. blaise: for the longest time I was getting pings from china.. Gustavo6046: (I am a sad potato) Gustavo6046: Is this the right way to implement what I want? https://github.com/Gustavo6046/farming_plus/commit/d3387b29ac1d6aeddbd8c3fefd58cca42fbf1884 Gustavo6046: blaise: lol Hawk777: Lua uses elseif, not else if. blaise: my server is sitting pretty on a pretty fat fiber connection out in the wilds.. blaise: so I kinda have to use good protection.. Hawk777: (technically “else if” is valid code, but you need more ends for it) blaise: yay, clang-11 is done Hawk777: I’m not sure if it’s good practice to modify node metadata so frequently either. Hawk777: But that part I’m not sure about. Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: I see Gustavo6046: Hawk777: probably not? Gustavo6046: it's supposed to be kind of static I guess blaise: so, I've been flying an Adder for a long time now blaise: I've got a few billion credits... blaise: should I move up to the python, or go directly to the Anaconda ? Gustavo6046: What about settings, like the timeout values at the top of the file, Hawk777? Gustavo6046: blaise: I'd say don't be too all in at once Gustavo6046: This is the kind of thing that really feels like it has a catch Hawk777: Gustavo6046: I’d make those local, but seems fine to put them there. Gustavo6046: I never watched Family Guy (that's an American show, I don't think people watch it here in Brazil), but if I recall correctly it has an episode where the guy gets very rich and spends it all at once. Gustavo6046: And... bad stuff happens. I think. I don't remember lol Gustavo6046: Hawk777: ah Gustavo6046: Is there no way to expose them to the player, sort of? blaise: it's Elite Dangerous... I would never sell my Adder.. Hawk777: Do you mean expose the numbers? Are you saying you want them to be settings or something? Because just making them non-local in the file will not let the player edit them through any kind of UI. Hawk777: You’d have to use the settings API for that. Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: blaise: I thought you meant like those wierd US airlines where you get "credit" for flying, for some reason lol Gustavo6046: and you could get comfier seats or whatever if you endured the crappy ones for your lifetime Gustavo6046: Hawk777: yeah Gustavo6046: that's what I mean Gustavo6046: I don't really like making them hardcoded Gustavo6046: At least putting them at the top makes it easier for anyone who wants to edit it to do so, right? * VanessaE: sighs... why, just why? https://imgur.com/U5ESefq.png Hawk777: Sure, or you could use settings for them. Gustavo6046: o.o blaise: VanessaE: :o Gustavo6046: what happened, VanessaE? Gustavo6046: Hawk777: yeah VanessaE: fuck if I know. some wxgtk bug I guess Gustavo6046: VanessaE: yes but what is the context Gustavo6046: it does look very buggy Gustavo6046: but that's wxWidgets for you VanessaE: Gustavo6046: that's Prusaslicer, normally it doesn't look like that. Gustavo6046: a what? VanessaE: ... VanessaE: oh fuck VanessaE: I'm on the wrong channel Gustavo6046: :P Gustavo6046: It happens Gustavo6046: Don't be too roused about it, it's fine. VanessaE: heh oh well Gustavo6046: hm? Gustavo6046: is there anything you're trying to say or? * VanessaE: takes her gripe over to the correct channel :P Gustavo6046: Ah :P Gustavo6046: weird, Minetest Game disappeared from the content list Gustavo6046: I had Minetest Extended, which I deleted since I think it overrode Minetest Game for some reason. Not cool. :/ Gustavo6046: I wish it were in ContentDB, even if it were to be distributed with the game or alongside it. Hawk777: https://content.minetest.net/threads/233/ ← I brought up yesterday that it’s not actually shipped with distro packages in all cases, but is now also not available from contentDB, but nobody replied before I had to leave. Gustavo6046: How do I redownload it? Gustavo6046: Ah Hawk777: But that thread is why it’s not in contentdb. Hawk777: You can still grab it from Github. Gustavo6046: >_> Gustavo6046: I want to download it, rubenwardy Hawk777: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: At least I still can get that Gustavo6046: I'm not barred from THAT. Gustavo6046: Next step: make the game proprietary Hawk777: If it *were* shipped with the engine in all cases, I would not see a lot of point also having it on ContentDB, since that seems like a recipe for users ending up with two copies of it (one in a system location made by package installation, and the other in their home directory made by contentdb installation). But it’s not in all cases shipped with, so having it not in CDB is a little annoying. Gustavo6046: yeah Gustavo6046: I had to git clone it Gustavo6046: Hawk777: why put it in a system location at all Hawk777: Uh, because that’s where it would end up if it ships with the engine and you install via e.g. a distro package manager. Gustavo6046: Ah, screw that Gustavo6046: Distros, distros. Gustavo6046: There should be a standard place to put files without necessarily guarding them to root. Gustavo6046: Like /opt maybe? Hawk777: Sorry, but I currently have over a thousand distro packages installed on my computer. I am not interested in going to each one’s website and checking whether a newer version is available. Package managers are good. Gustavo6046: I know Gustavo6046: yes they are Gustavo6046: but also very non-standardized Gustavo6046: which results in issues like this Gustavo6046: this kind of confusion is not easy to avoid Hawk777: Um, no, fundamentally you either install something system-wide (thus available for everyone, but should not be writeable by anyone because then user X can break stuff for user Y), or you install stuff per-user (thus available for only that user and nobody else). Hawk777: The problem only shows up if you try to install the same thing both ways at the same time. Gustavo6046: yes Gustavo6046: Maybe duplicate resolution is easier Gustavo6046: So per-user stuff overrides system wide Gustavo6046: That's how I'd do it Hawk777: I mean, *ideally* the result would be that everything gets installed system-wide. That has other advantages; disk space is relatively cheap, but it’s still nice to keep software out of backups (there’s no point backing up that which can be re-downloaded and reinstalled), and the easiest backup is one which just grabs your whole home directory. Fortunately Minetest games and mods are pretty tiny so they don’t really contribut Hawk777: h, but larger software which insists on installing itself in a user home directory is annoying for that reason even if not on a multi-user machine. Hawk777: Sure, I can handle a hundred gigs of Steam games on my hard drive. I don’t want to upload a hundred gigs of steam games to my backup storage every time I do a full backup. Hawk777: Ergo, keeping user data and programs separate = good. specing: Sounds proprietary specing: Anyway, backup tools should have exclude/include lists Hawk777: Well of course they do, but it’s annoying to add a dozen different directories to an exclude list. Hawk777: Much better if programs (and their assets, i.e. stuff that comes back at the press of a button) live in one place, and user data lives in another. Hawk777: As I said, I don’t really care much about Minetest in this case, because Minetest mods and games are tiny. specing: Things should respect the XDG standards specing: I suppose games off $proprietary service would install into ~/.cache , which you can exclude altogether Hawk777: Well, that would be acceptable I suppose. Ideally software would be installed into /opt (if giant-blob-that-insists-on-living-in-one-directory) or /usr (if sane normal software). Hawk777: In practice Steam lets you pick the install directory; I wasn’t attacking it, just giving it as an example of really big software that I don’t want in ~. specing: All the out-of-package-manager software I used so far did install to /opt by default specing: one of them installs to ~/opt/ by default... a rather strange choice I suppose :) Hawk777: :O Hawk777: Yeah that’s weird. Hawk777: Yes /opt seems to be pretty common, except for the case of things that expect to be run as a regular user but also act as their own package manager, like Steam and Minetest. specing: it's a foss package too (the one that installed to ~/opt) Gustavo6046: How can I tell the meta value of my block? Gustavo6046: If there is one set, anyway? Gustavo6046: Maybe color the outline? Gustavo6046: Can I use a = as an expression in Lua? Gustavo6046: Oh nevermind Gustavo6046: I don't need to lol Gustavo6046: The auto-generated docs are condescending. They assume that if you don't understand them, it must be that you don't understand Lua. Gustavo6046: I don't want the concepts, I get them well enough already; I just want the damn method names! The actual reference! specing: Gustavo6046: doc/lua_api.txt? specing: Gustavo6046: doc/client_lua_api.txt? Gustavo6046: Oh, thanks Gustavo6046: I was looking for that Gustavo6046: Something that doesn't have outdated warnings slathered all over it lol specing: hmm specing: I wonder if you see the API if you do dump(_G) Gustavo6046: I want to set a node's texture, like, I want to overlay cracks on it. Gustavo6046: Transparent cracks Gustavo6046: There should be a way to define a new node as a variant of another one, so using API functions on the original node type would also give the new one. Gustavo6046: Node type aliases, I'd call them Gustavo6046: Like slightly grassier versions of the tiled soil texture. Gustavo6046: I just want to do that. specing: you can do that specing: see how dirt with grass is done Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: specing: yes, I get that Gustavo6046: But I want to change the actual farming soil types Gustavo6046: Not add new ones specing: you could pull it out of registered nodes and modify it? Gustavo6046: oh? Gustavo6046: I could? Gustavo6046: specing: but for specific nodes Gustavo6046: depending on the value of a meta int Gustavo6046: I could make an air-like node with a slightly grassy "floor" Gustavo6046: but that sounds like it could cause problems Gustavo6046: specing: anything im mind? specing: air-like? you mean like a 1/8 slab? Gustavo6046: specing: hm? Gustavo6046: no, like a node that otherwise behaves like Air specing: But is fully textured like dirt-with-grass? Gustavo6046: specing: no, just the bottom, from the inside Gustavo6046: so the bottom face is a transparent grass texture specing: ok, so maybe a slab with no hitbox? Gustavo6046: maybe Gustavo6046: a tiny one specing: I'm trying to think of an example like you said specing: of a node* Gustavo6046: specing: I imagine my use case is an example on its own right? lol Gustavo6046: I have a tilled farm node Gustavo6046: it has a timeout specing: Oh, I know of an example Gustavo6046: I modified weed.lua from farming_plus, so that it has a timeout, and once it decrements to 1 it can spawn weed above Gustavo6046: (not 0, because 0 means "no meta" and I use that to reset to the initial value) specing: seeds / early stage plants from any farming mod Gustavo6046: no specing: a timeout? Gustavo6046: I want the timeout to display on the top surface of the block itself specing: what Gustavo6046: yeah Gustavo6046: it's just a value specing: What Gustavo6046: a counter Gustavo6046: I set it in meta Gustavo6046: sorry, I'm stupid Gustavo6046: let me post the link specing: hmmmmm specing: Perhaps specing: I think that technic battery boxes do something similar specing: they show charge level on their side Gustavo6046: https://github.com/Gustavo6046/farming_plus/blob/master/weed.lua#L31-L57 Gustavo6046: yes, kind of like that Gustavo6046: specing: but I don't want to make new node types Gustavo6046: it's fine if I have to make new textures, I guess specing: I dont think you can do new textures without new node types specing: How does technic do it? Several node types per battery box? Gustavo6046: oh lol Gustavo6046: specing: I found the source Gustavo6046: for Technic Gustavo6046: I'm usually not a fan of mixing faux-declarative and imperative, but it seems that in Lua mixing the two is the best way. Gustavo6046: Everything else looks egregious lol Gustavo6046: Like, the register calls are faux-declarative, as it groups what would otherwise be multiple calls (like init_node_type, set_node_type_thingthing, etc) and uses a single call with a table argument (or whatever Lua calls them). Gustavo6046: But still Gustavo6046: let me try to find the thing Gustavo6046: specing: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic/machines/MV/battery_box.lua Gustavo6046: clever dude abstracted away common stuff Gustavo6046: specing: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/a8daa417c485ee20716ec050d4c676b5c91af773/technic/machines/register/battery_box.lua#L159-L393 Gustavo6046: found the function Gustavo6046: Yep, it seems to Gustavo6046: local front_tex = "technic_"..ltier.."_battery_box_front.png^technic_power_meter"..i..".png" Gustavo6046: notice the i? Gustavo6046: I just want a way to visualize this timeout in general. Gustavo6046: Without having to replace the node type Gustavo6046: Ooh wait * iamweasel: waits stoically specing: Gustavo6046: I'd use infotext specing: or CSM :DDD specing: maybe your use case is a great example for what SSCSMs could be useful for Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: I see Gustavo6046: Thanks! I'll use infotext specing: Gustavo6046: e.g. terumet thermoboxes use infotext to show how much heat they contain Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Why are meta methods accessed with a colon? Gustavo6046: Oh, that's Lua Gustavo6046: nevermind specing: yep specing: obj:fun(a,b) = fun(obj,a,b) specing: syntax sugar Gustavo6046: I see iamweasel: oh that's neat specing :) specing: Lua is a neat little language that is easy to use, up until you want to do inheritance Gustavo6046: Also, crops in Helenah's server did not grow at all after a certain point. Gustavo6046: Helenah: does debug.txt say anything abgout it? Gustavo6046: I DID IT Gustavo6046: :D Gustavo6046: good night! specing: do you minetesters in general prefer one function to work on nodes, objects and "nothing" (pointed thing) or do you prefer 3 separate functions instead? rubenwardy: Depends on the context specing: core.use_item for CSMs rubenwardy: Pointed thing makes sense in that case specing: All cases use PointedThing. But I'm asking whether I should make core.use_item handle all cases or add use_item_on_node and use_item_on_object Helenah: Is there any way to optimise the engine to work on a pi 4? Helenah: I'm desperate to play with my gf and she has a pi. Ingar: the client is almost usable on a pi Ingar: last time I got 20-30 fps Helenah: Ingar: It lags like hell on this pi. Helenah: She could move around, but she said she wasn't comfortable with the lag. Ingar: a pi isn;t the greatest gaming machine ofc Ingar: might be better off with a NUC style machine Helenah: Ingar: What you mean? specing: get a PC :D Ingar: Helenah: I mean, the Pi4 sucks at OpenGL :) sfan5: are you running it via the new opengl driver? Ingar: any 5-year old mini PC would be better sfan5: gles2 might also give better performence Ingar: I"m at work now though, unfortunately I odn't have my Pi4 here specing: sometimes I wonder how the gma4500xhd in this 12 yo laptop would fare with minetest Ingar: specing: intel GMA ? Helenah: Ingar: How come it played Minecraft 8 better? specing: Ingar: yes Helenah: I thought Minetest was lighter? specing: Ingar:VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07) Ingar: specing: intel video :) http://ingar.intranifty.net/pictures/Upside-Down.jpg rti: Hi. I am new to 03minetest/minetest: Formspec: Allow to specify frame loop for model[] (#10679) 13d0a38f6 https://git.io/JL3Ut (152020-12-15T18:06:36Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04wsor4035 -> 03minetest/minetest: lua_api.txt: Add mod_orgin to node def (#10697) 133ed940f https://git.io/JL3Uq (152020-12-15T18:05:55Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow configuring block disk and net compression. Change default disk… 13e638056 https://git.io/JL3kY (152020-12-15T18:15:25Z) tango_: wtf I'm getting kicked out from an unlisted server because minetest cannot connect to its server list? tango_: and that's without even considering the issue of getting disconnected while underwater basically guaranteeing you'll die sfan5: huh? 10A​bdu: Is the 5.4.0 dev input lag (sometimes can't select an item in the hotbar) android specific or across all platforms? Helenah: I've built a tunnel which I intend for people to pass through safely... Helenah: Those yellow monsters from mc_mobs are spawning there... how do I stop that without using mods to disable their spawn? specing: Gustavo6046: I don't know, I mainly do client side modding specing: I prefer TechPack Gustavo6046: ? Gustavo6046: iamweasel: ah Gustavo6046: specing: don't let Vanny know Gustavo6046: :P Gustavo6046: There were those wide plains of sand and silver sand mixed. But there was no desert sand or desert stone, nor were there cacti. They were not deserts? specing: I think she suspects from my bug reports Gustavo6046: lol Gustavo6046: if I have the guts to learn Minetest's Lua API (not the first time I mention that condition), I will fork it and makeitgood :D Gustavo6046: Disregard the very obscure Re-Volt reference, but still specing: I did just that Gustavo6046: :o ? Gustavo6046: I want to know that Hawk777: I was wondering, I know there has been some talk about moving away from Minetest Game being considered “the default”. At this point, my distro package manager provides Minetest but not MTG. However, MTG is also not available for download from contentdb, with the comment “Because minetest game is currently distributed with the client, and so we don't want users to download it”. Is it intended that MTG should be shipped alon Hawk777: h MT still, or is it intended to be “just another game”? If the former, it seems it ought to be in a distro package. If the latter, it seems it ought to be in contentdb. Hawk777: Of course I can grab it from git, but it seems like this situation is missing some pieces. Hawk777: This is not meant as an accusation of anything missing at the devs—merely a question of which packaging method is *intended* to be used. iamweasel: i would double-check you distro does not have mtg in repo, and then just git or dowload tarball matching your engine version iamweasel: what distro is it, i am curious? specing: Gustavo6046: https://framagit.org/specing/minetest + https://framagit.org/specing/csm enjoy Gustavo6046: specing: ooh Gustavo6046: wait, is it a native mod? Gustavo6046: like does it require your fork of minetest? Gustavo6046: I was referring to forking pipeworks specing: Yes, it requires my engine specing: it's a collection of CSMs Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Meh Gustavo6046: Interesting! Gustavo6046: If an ore cluster spawns partially into a bunch of gravel, is it possible for the parts that try to spawn into it to wind up spawning in the other side? Gustavo6046: Like the first stone in a breadth-first floodfill Sokomine: Gustavo6046: yes, exactly, dms do fire fireballs. i think it's a misbehaviour. mobs ought to be friendly towards players :-) (even if we invade their territory and steal their property) Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: lol :P iamweasel: Sokomine: i was looking for a mod that has the magic wand or whatnot to fire the same fireballs, but couldn't find one :) iamweasel: must be a 3-liner iamweasel: yeah, how about that? like a wand and and expensive catalyst, non-stackable, to fire a dm fireball? iamweasel: ten+1 implemented burbon just cuz i whined, i think if i submit a pull request, it's a slam dunk :D daiNoZord: find_node_near seems to behave until it finds first instance of specified node, rtn pos of found node. but then returns pos every time placed.... i've found a couple of examples but cant quite get it to work sfan5: you can exclude the center position from the search if you need to daiNoZord: am i right in thinking that it's pos, radius, node name? daiNoZord: it gets upset if i take away its arguments sfan5: !api MinetestBot: Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt sfan5: pos, radius, node names yes sfan5: and as an optional fourth argument you can tell it not to search the center position daiNoZord: ok thanks daiNoZord: false by default sfan5: oh indeed daiNoZord: i was reading a conversation a while ago that must have predated the option to enable Calinou: More Blocks 2.1.0 released: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/releases/tag/v2.1.0 rubenwardy: and ContentDB is broke Calinou: it seems ContentDB is trying to do automatic import Calinou: not sure if it'll work Calinou: yeah, it's not working: "fatal: update_ref failed for ref 'HEAD': cannot update ref 'refs/heads/master" Calinou: how do I manually configure a release once it was created automatically? Calinou: do I have to create a new one? Calinou: or delete the previous ne Calinou: yeah, I removed the old one and created a new one Calinou: it's still failing to fetch it though tango_: woohoo rubenwardy: I think it's the same bug as this: https://github.com/minetest/contentdb/issues/249 rubenwardy: The Git stuff in ContentDB is easily the most unreliable part daiNoZord: if somebody doesn't ban me soon, I can't promise I won't ask another question...! daiNoZord: unless i go and learn latin instead. I might find that easier 08a​ppguru: what? rubenwardy: unless i go and learn latin instead. I might find that easier Helenah: VanessaE: Is HDX texture pack out of date? Helenah: It seems to have textures in there which I assume are incorrectly named. VanessaE: it needs some updates VanessaE: kinda outdated now yeah Helenah: VanessaE: I'm assuming I just need to simply rename some of the files. Helenah: I can see there are textures available which aren't being applied, while other available textures are being applied. VanessaE: yeah, that's all that would be needed VanessaE: pull requests welcome btw VanessaE: I don't know what all has changed since I don't have much opportunity to use HDX anyway VanessaE: (MT doesn't run well on my machine, never has, and HDX just kills what little FPS I do have) Helenah: Ah :3 tango_: rubenwardy: rememebr when you suggested that a PR to improve placement could be considered maintenance and I was skeptical? tango_: I should have bet money ;-) https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2797 tango_: and this is the simple one tango_: no way I'm going to submit the moreblock enhancement while paramat is around VanessaE: fire him :P tango_: eh 8-) tango_: VanessaE: I'm just going with a friendly fork with that stuff VanessaE: you'll be playing into his hands VanessaE: sorry to be bitter here, but the whole point of closing off future feature dev in mtg was to encourage forks VanessaE: which I disagree with intensely. tango_: me too tango_: but we could do a single fork 8-) sfan5: I actually planned to do that but haven't come around to it tango_: sfan5: do the fork? sfan5: yes tango_: I'm more than happy with somebody else taking over VanessaE: every time someone's tried to fork MT or mtg it's always ended up as a dead project. tango_: my intention was to keep it friendly, not a full fork VanessaE: (well apart from some android forks which seem to persist) tango_: so kept in sync with the maintenance of the “official” mtg sfan5: VanessaE: *or* merged into MTG tango_: VanessaE: OTOH, the mtg we have now was a fork once tango_: from the last time this BS happened VanessaE: fair point, both VanessaE: but now paramat has closed that avenue, sfan5 tango_: at least for now tango_: this is why I think it's important to stick to ONE friendly fork tango_: it imports maintenance fixes from the frozen MTG, but provides room for improvements VanessaE: maybe I should transition Dreambuilder back to a full game distro :) tango_: I'm calling it MTG+, but I suck at logos https://github.com/Oblomov/minetest_game/tree/mtg-plus VanessaE: (it started as a fork of mtg, then became a modpack as that was easier to maintain) tango_: well, a modback is actually easier to maintain with a frozen base tango_: modpack rubenwardy: VanessaE: MTG was frozen in 2013, and then thawed in 2014 ish after a fork was merged into it tango_: e.g. you don't have to worry about recipes changing upstrem rubenwardy: it's happened before VanessaE: rubenwardy: sure I remember that, but that wasn't a permanent freeze. rubenwardy: years roughly wrong tango_: VanessaE: see e.g. the changes I made recently to moreblocks, to resync some of the recipes rubenwardy: neither is this one, VanessaE VanessaE: rubenwardy: er, you better check again tango_: this is just until paramat gets bored and drops out of the project ;-) VanessaE: I'm pretty sure paramat intends to kill it. rubenwardy: it's no more permanent than the previous freeze - there wasn't a duration or end date in either case tango_: somebody please find something interesting to do for paramat sfan5: there is no certainty that MTG won't be unfrozen but discontinuing it entirely is meant to encourage different games and stop people from only focusing on MTG sfan5: so from that angle you're correct rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: plus no one wants to work on MTG currently, it's basically been dead for years VanessaE: rubenwardy: "Because we need to move on from MTG, which is holding MT back. There is still too much focus on MTG, core dev and contributor time is better spent elsewhere on new games." rubenwardy: same for the previous freeze VanessaE: hard to read that as anything other than "mtg is dead". rubenwardy: the previous freeze was to encourage modding rubenwardy: in any case, people need to work on games and escape the design-by-committee that plagues MTG VanessaE: design by committee? hah VanessaE: a committee of one, maybe :P specing: I find the whole game idea silly rubenwardy: well, it's practically the same problem - it's trying to fulfill conflicting problems without satisfying everyone specing: a game is a collection of mods, which are picked by server hosts and that define the game that is played specing: I don't think MTG should exist at all VanessaE: rubenwardy: your comment https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2710#issuecomment-655705075 still holds true, imho VanessaE: I mean think about it sfan5: it still is true, MTG eventually needs a replacement VanessaE: take MTG, remove that which you don't like, add new mods until it's right, publish VanessaE: (by remove I could also mean to add config options to disable those things) VanessaE: and that's what every server owner out there does (if you s/publish/go live/) tango_: rubenwardy: the problem with the “maintenance only” is that what consitutes a feature and what consitutes a maintenance action is entirely subjective VanessaE: since to the engine, a game mod is no different from an add-on mod, apart from load order/dependency resolution. tango_: rubenwardy: I created two PRs that are maintenance-only (make lava reproduction optional and ladder placement improvements) and they are considered “new features” tango_: I'd say that the issue isn't the design by committee, it's who's on that committee tango_: that being said, I do agree that having a design document would be a good idea tango_: (also restructuring default so that it's considerably more sensible) VanessaE: ^ the idea of making default into a "meta" mod is good VanessaE: gives modders time to alter their projects to depend on only the bare essentials, before said "meta mod" ceases to exist. VanessaE: but then that raises the question: VanessaE: how would you divvy it all up? tango_: I also honestly doubt that MTG is “holding MT back” for any real meaning of the expression tango_: it's not like “oh my god we are so busy on MTG that we don't have time to work on MT” rubenwardy: it's not that, it's the fact that MTG is so terrible and the reliance on it is bad 08a​ppguru: TBH builtin is crappier than MT as most of it hasn't been touched in a while tango_: rubenwardy: how does that limit MT? 08a​ppguru: Why do all games start out with pulverize, clearinv etc. for example? VanessaE: (I might tend to split things up by node type -- chests in some kind of "storage" mod, furnaces in a "smelting-cooking" mod along with the proposed blast furnaces, stone and stone-like in another, lighting in another, and so on) tango_: VanessaE: and it should be devised in such a way that combining the elements doesn't require 200 lines of scripting VanessaE: tango_: how do you mean? rubenwardy: I prefer organisation based on dependencies rather than node types - but that's the same for those examples. Chests in `chests` and furnace in `furnace` tango_: VanessaE: a lot of mods provide stuff done with different materials, but “assembling” that stuff is not easy tango_: VanessaE: think e.g. stairs VanessaE: oh and of course my basic_materials mod ought to be included in mtg ;) rubenwardy: no tango_: VanessaE: lol rubenwardy: maybe if it lazy loaded resources VanessaE: inb4 "it's another default" VanessaE: rubenwardy: [meme: "Ackshually..."] VanessaE: I had intended something along those lines but never got around to it tango_: rubenwardy: OTOH, these kind of stress tests are good to point out deficiencies in the engine rubenwardy: having a mod like that only fixes the problem for those materials. It also confuses players by having resources that are never used VanessaE: and the materials are split into groups already tango_: rubenwardy: so if anything overloading MTG would be a push to improve MT tango_: rubenwardy: this is what I suggested, actually VanessaE: rubenwardy: but can you be clear what you mean by "lazy" here?> tango_: make MTG the testbed for all features, pushing the limits rubenwardy: lazy loading is when you only load something if it is used rubenwardy: so if no mods use plastic, then plastic isn't registered tango_: rubenwardy: shouldn't that be an engine feature though? VanessaE: rubenwardy: ok, but apart from mods depending on those resources via mod.conf, how else could it be done? rubenwardy: yeah, exactly rubenwardy: which is why I don't think basic_materials solves the problem well enough rubenwardy: VanessaE: API calls, like basic_materials.use("plastic") VanessaE: rubenwardy: I am willing to refine it but like others I kinda need a direction here.. rubenwardy: the engine should fix this anyway VanessaE: but that's impossibel VanessaE: le* tango_: rubenwardy: the problem with that is chicken and egg VanessaE: there's no way for the engine to just "activate" a new mod (or nodes/items) after it's up and running tango_: you would have apii calls to require some usages, but also api calls to give some providers, but what if there's circular dependencies tango_: rubenwardy: consider the case of a stairs mod that does “for every material, provide stairs of that material” tango_: rubenwardy: the set of materials is undefined if you need registering VanessaE: rubenwardy: either way, the best solution without such a thing would be to split-up basic_materials into several smaller mods, by material type. That's trivial and I could do it in about 20 minutes. tango_: or, you would need to define everything in call backs tango_: VanessaE: well, you should do that anyway 8-) VanessaE: but I'll only do that if the results are worth it e.g. if it ends up in mtg for example tango_: and make each material group a mod option VanessaE: tango_: just so. VanessaE: they're grouped as metals, plastics, electrical, and misc at the moment VanessaE: (though a few "misc" items like the gear and lock could be separated into say "mechanical") tango_: (definitely) VanessaE: (the concrete, stuff to make it, along with terracotta base, could go into another mod, "construction" maybe) tango_: I'm not familiar with your mod, but I think one possibility per rubenwardy's suggestion, aside from mod configuration options to toggle individual classes or materials, would be to provide hooks for registering “providers” and “consumers” of the material VanessaE: it's here if you care to look, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21000 tango_: so for example a “consumer” could say I want to use material X if possible, and it would be possible only if (1) it's enable and (2) there is some provider for it tango_: but there's obviously the issue with mod registration order VanessaE: well the engine has no concept of "providers" VanessaE: closest is node groups tango_: VanessaE: no that would be at your mod api level VanessaE: if items could also have groups, that would solve the issue tango_: as in: a mod says basic_material.register_provider("some material") Sokomine: no :-( i don't think paramat wants to kill mtg. just has no time for it. it would be great if mtg could become a community effort. in my view it's a standard - a base to write mods for tango_: and you know that that mod will have nodes or mechanism that providethe material VanessaE: so you're suggesting basic_materials ought to work something like biome_lib or signs_lib then tango_: Sokomine: if paramat has no time for it, then they shouldn't gatekeep changes to it tango_: but this is not what they are doing tango_: VanessaE: I'm not entirely sure how biome_lib or sign_lib work 8-P but I trust your word on it Sokomine: the assumtion that any mod has to be written for *just one* particular "game" is very alien to me. my mods are not built and designed that way. they ought to be usable wherever the player/game designer wants to. i frown upon deliberate incompatibility VanessaE: tango_: they're APIs other mods hook into to create new things, in essence. tango_: VanessaE: that sounds more or less like what we're talking about then, yes VanessaE: I could make basic_materials do that too, but I don't see much point in doing so when 99% of what's really wanted could be solved with finert-grained dependencies in the same way as we're talking of breaking-up the monopoly that is `default`. Sokomine: what i truely want is a collection of easy-to-use-apis which are already there and can be used without having to install extra mods daiNoZord: Aww crap I'm still here! Oh well for what it may have been worth - I wasn't just trying to learn the bare minimum to get a new "toy" for my world or whatever. I don't play games much. I can take or leave it. If I was interested in just "playing" then I can use any old mod, perhaps with some tweaking. My son plays though, he loves minetest and the time we spend building together, and I thought that it would be a great way daiNoZord: to get into programming. Therefore I set myself small goals to understand things such as physics as they pertain to the game. That said, "lua.api.txt" is not a bible. It's not some great resource for a beginner, but it is a pretty crap place to signpost someone to when they're trying to get their head around an entirely new thing (Insult to injury when it's already open in one of about 20 browser tabs linked to the daiNoZord: question). I get that this is not a "programming advice" room, but the subject appears to be "minetest", and I had hoped for "discussion" around the one or various ways to accomplish any arbitrary goal pertaining to that subject. As it is, however, I will formally request a ban, so I'm not tempted in future to change my mind and bother people any further with my "noob" nonsense, and subsequently I can focus my attention daiNoZord: on better documented and resourced learning endeavours. Sokomine: tango_: your stairs example works to some degree. usually such a mod would wait for a second or so and then iterate over the materials registered by other mods in the meantime and add stairs for them. a more convenient way to do this might be good tango_: Sokomine: exactly tango_: Sokomine: but this requires either a change in the way mods are loaded and/or provide features, or to do everything in callbacks tango_: but then again this isn't an MTG issue per-se tango_: although MTG could be used as testbed for this feature tango_: Sokomine: the problem is that the dependency tree can be nontrivial to manage tango_: Sokomine: I had such an example recently when adding some variants to moreblocks. doing all combos has exponential complexity growth Sokomine: tango_: oh yes. moreblocks is very difficult in that regard Sokomine: i'd rather like to see it...divided: into the blocks it provided and the stairsplus mod it comes with Sokomine: "normal" mtg would then still have its stairs mod with its api. if you want more - like the nice stair shapes in moreblocks - you'd replace the mtg-stairs-api with the moreblocks-stairs-api - ideally without having to change any api calls tango_: Sokomine: I see what you mean about the API thing tango_: Sokomine: but that's actually the general idea behind mods tango_: unrelated question, but does the latest MTG master work with 5.3 or is 5.4-dev-only? 11J​onathon: 5.4-dev i believe 09w​war: 5.4 isnt up for android gerugri: hi all, i would set up a little server on my school for not so much clients (10-20)...someone has this tipe of experience? gerugri: i mean, do i need some particular hardware or a normal pc is it enough? VanessaE: tango_, rubenwardy anyway if it'll get basic_materials merged into mtg, I may be willing to make it into something more like an API, provided it still works with MT 5.3.0 and wouldn't need a ton of updates to the mods that depend on it. tango_: VanessaE: given the current attitude from paramat, I wouldn't bother, if inclusion in MTG would be your only reason to do it tango_: OTOH, working on the API so that mods can start to adapt to it might be a good idea anyway tango_: and of course you can provide a config option (default true, for the time being) where all stuff gets registered anyway VanessaE: tango_: well like I said, I kinda need a direction too VanessaE: I mean sure, it's simple enough to have some mod that needs a material call a function to declare that need, but since everything has to be registered at startup anyway, about the mod could do is log all such calls, and then after a while, force-*UN*register everything that wasn't asked for VanessaE: and that's....messy VanessaE: about all the* VanessaE: so until then, the most logical solution is to break it up into multiple smaller components like what I did with Homedecor ages ago, and gradually adapt mods that use it to be more fine-grained in their usag. VanessaE: +e VanessaE: come to think of it, are modpacks allowed within a game? VanessaE: i.e. minetest_game/mods/basic_materials_modpack/basic_materials_[foo, bar, baz, ...]/ sfan5: gerugri: no, normal pc hardware is fine doesn't need to be particularily new either * tango_: has no idea what a modpack is tango_: VanessaE: I'm thinking that maybe registration could be delayed and made inside a callback, but I don't know if that's allowed VanessaE: literally a handful of mods contained in a top-level folder, with an empty file 'modpack.txt' included. that's it. VanessaE: (though normally those mods are gathered together to form a theme of some kind) specing: gerugri: it depends on the mods specing: e.g. petz might require a 20 GHz machine at 20 clients sfan5: no such thing ;) specing: exactly 11I​hrFussel: Many mods just aren't optimized much for server gameplay...I disable some intensive parts of mods when there are too many lag spikes for example MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "GUIFormSpecMenu: Shift+Click listring workaround for MacOS" 13f2c8c6b https://git.io/JLLiz (152020-12-14T19:05:24Z) VanessaE: rubenwardy, tango_ would you guys mind filing an issue on basic_materials about all this? maybe we can come to some consensus on a direction? or at least, just so it's not forgotten Sokomine: tango_: right now mods are mostly standalone things. apis exist, but it's rare that anyone but the creator ever uses them due to the libs not beeing provided with the "standard" game tango_: Sokomine: but that's up to the mod creators though, isn't it? this isn't something for the minetest devs to decide Sokomine: VanessaE: hm. a mt.requires("plastic") call...it sounds a bit complicated. might be easier to check i.e. recipes at registration and have such a call when there's additional need tango_: Sokomine: for example for my experimental dowsing mod I did provide sort-of an API, but again it's up to me Sokomine: tango_: the lib situation won't improve until they're more easily available tango_: VanessaE: I tend not to open issues for stuff I don't personally use, sorry 8-P Hawk777: TBH, a plethora of games scares me a bit, as an ordinary user. Right now I know that most mods work with MTG. If there are a lot of base games, sounds like an easy way to have no standardization, fragmentation, and then the mod community also fragments into mods that work on game A, mods that work on game B, and so on, and now I can’t have all the nice things at once. Seems like a lot of effort and a worse experience for players Hawk777: e should that happen. tango_: Hawk777: that has been discussed in the “freeze mtg” issue VanessaE: tango_: do it anyway ;) your input could be useful. Sokomine's too Hawk777: Yeah, it was, but not AFAICT with any conclusion. AFAICT the answer is to keep MTG as a modding base, but then… what? Either all the mods build on top of MTG (in which case all the new fancy wonderful games that people want to replace it with are kind of fail because you can’t use any mods in them), or else one of the new wonderful fancy games wins (in which case the world is fragmented into the old mods that work with MTG, an Hawk777: new mods that work with New Fancy Game, and they can’t be used together). Hawk777: Even if the new games are just forks of MTG, as soon as they add a new feature that some mod might want to use, the same fragmentation happens. Hawk777: If some fork of MTG wins the popularity contest and essentially all the mods work with it (either because they’re old, depend on MTG, and the fork retained compat, or because they’re new and built on the popular winner) then great, but until that winner emerges, feels like a mess. Hawk777: Shrug. I don’t like forks in general for this reason. Hawk777: Not like I have any choice, the devs will do what they do, just… scary. 08a​ppguru: I have recently started yet another fork 08a​ppguru: Just to merge my two PRs hehe tango_: appguru: that makes two of us 08a​ppguru: what have you merged in your fork? 08a​ppguru: I might merge it too tango_: https://github.com/Oblomov/minetest_game/tree/mtg-plus it's basically master plus my (currently two) branches intended for MTG plus a branch to add an icon with a big red plus and a rename of the game tango_: https://github.com/Oblomov/minetest_game/commits/mtg-plus shows the branches merged tango_: renewable lava and improved ladder placement tango_: they are trivial, PR pending, paramat objected because according to them it's “new features” tango_: but at least the PRs are not closed yet Bombo: !tell Bombo /grantme all MinetestBot: You can tell that to yourself Bombo: pffh tango_: I mean the bot is not wrong 8-D Bombo: thought it would tell me more ;) tango_: Bombo: probably does the same for anyone who's already in chat tango_: !tell Bombo look at this MinetestBot: tango_: I'll pass that on when Bombo is around tango_: ah no tango_: then it's stupid 8-D tango_: I mean, it's a bot 8-) tango_: maybe when you speak then? tango_: not the biggest fan of squashed merges, TBH rubenwardy: Calinou: I've fixed the release bug and added 2.1.0 to CDB Calinou: thanks! :) tango_: Calinou: about the glass texture: when you have a cube of glass, you cannot see “the other side” of the cube tango_: is this a general rendering limitation of minetest, or specific to the (clean) glass texture? tango_: it's funny because you can see the surface of the adjacent blocks, but not e.g. the opposite edge through the glass tango_: not sure if I'm being clear Calinou: tango_: it's a rendering limitation, it could be lifted by adding a new drawtype in C++ but it's not really worth it Calinou: (one that has backface culling disabled) Calinou: alternatively, you could have a nodebox that's a cube with very thin hollow faces tango_: says you 8-D tango_: (on the worthness) Calinou: the nodebox approach would only work for leaves, not glass since you want adjacent faces to disappear tango_: not entirely sure I understand tango_: doesn't the disappearing or not depend on that infamous client-side option? tango_: oh but still it would need to be supported tango_: hm Gustavo6046: Do you think Lua lacking any sort of type-checking or safety features whatsoever could be a detriment and an inconvenience to modders? sfan5: perhaps Gustavo6046: Lua is tedious to write, difficult to debug, and convoluted. It's kind of obsolete nowadays, which shows in the form of its community slowly shrinking -- it's noticeably less active today than it was ages past. It is the main reason I proposed an alternative JS API. JS does almost everything Lua does, and it's both easier to write and to fix, and it's also easier to understand. Gustavo6046: JS is also easy to embed, thanks to projects like Duktape and QuickJS which are basically small and portable JavaScript VMs written in C. rubenwardy: Lua has safety features - it has stronger typing than JS, and there's LuaCheck sfan5: JS "we know what the programmer meant" dynamic typing is worse than Lua's. I contest the "easier to understand" point too, core language features of both are pretty simple. And "difficult to write" or "convoluted" are subjective. rubenwardy: I like JS, and it's awesome with typescript sfan5: more importantly, how's the speed of embeddable js interpreters compared to luajit? rubenwardy: V8 has beaten LuaJIT for many years rubenwardy: not sure how large that is sfan5: I know, but V8 doesn't seem realistically embeddable rubenwardy: I'd be surprised given how browsers embed it. I'd also be surprised if it's not massive Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: Lua has no typing at all Gustavo6046: I don't know what you mean Gustavo6046: And V8 is not very embeddable Gustavo6046: Luajit is superfast, so that's a plus rubenwardy: False, it has booleans, numbers, functions, tables, and userdata Gustavo6046: But quickjs offers pretty decent performance, for a portable embedded language interpreter anyway rubenwardy: There's less weird casting like in JS - you can't add an array to a number rubenwardy: That makes it have stronger typing rubenwardy: It's just not statically typed Gustavo6046: rubenwardy: I think JS weird casting is irrelevant Gustavo6046: it's more of a quirk than a point that matters Gustavo6046: If you ask me, anyway Gustavo6046: And Lua tables and userdata are kind of idiosyncrasies Gustavo6046: I prefer JS's object syntax, with the C-like dot notation Gustavo6046: What, why can't I add diacritics to vowels in chat or in Travelnet box names? Gustavo6046: If I use deadkeys, it looks like "^a", not â Gustavo6046: and if I try pasting (at least in the latter case), it just brings up an abnormally big space sfan5: input bug with irrlicht likely Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Also, I see what seems to be a desert -- big, relatively flat plains of desert sand with a massive layer of desert stone underneath --, but no cacti :( Hawk777: I don’t see why it makes any sense for the core devs to spend a zillion hours integrating a Javascript engine when any decent programmer can learn a language they don’t know without too much trouble, and personally I found Lua to be a particularly easy language to learn. I’d rather they spend their limited time on something with a higher bang-for-buck ratio. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: it's easy to integrate, depending on the "engine" MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Semi-transparent background for nametags (#10152) 134d41ed0 https://git.io/JLtWN (152020-12-14T22:49:30Z) Gustavo6046: and Lua is troubling, yes Gustavo6046: It is fine to learn but not fine for larger codebases sfan5: another scripting backend is not that hard to implement in itself but it opens up quite some trouble over who gets to handle a callback and other ordering issues Hawk777: You are also proposing that the maintenance work related to scripting engines be doubled, because there are two of them. Unless you propose replacing Lua rather than adding in addition, in which case you have just broken every single game and mod that existed anywhere ever. Hawk777: I also personally opine that Javascript is unsuitable for larger codebases because I happen to like static typing, and neither Lua nor JS have that. Hawk777: So now you get to endlessly bikeshed which language should be added. tango_: obviously everything should be done in C tango_: what's with this fancy smancy C++ thingie in the core tango_: psssht tango_: OK seriously though, why isn't there something like a brick wall tango_: I mean the red clay bricks tango_: only slabs and stairs? sfan5: I can assure bricks exist sfan5: assure you* tango_: bicks of course tango_: I have plenty of brick blocks tango_: but I can only do slabs and stairs with them, not the poles tango_: not even with moreblocks it seems 8-( sfan5: hmm that's a good point tango_: hm but I can do brick block panels with moreblocks tango_: hmmmmmmm tango_: damn I have to decide what to use to build my fancy house tango_: stone bricks are too thick visually tango_: (ditto sandstone bricks etc) tango_: BTW I hate non-renewable materials blaise: so, can we play minetest using google cardboard? specing: Sounds proprietary blaise: eh, using a phone via usb as another display ? tango_: does MT support VR at all? tango_: I don't think so blaise: it does... tango_: it does? blaise: it has support for several means of 3d.. blaise: even the old red/blue shift tango_: really, how do you enable it? blaise: it's in the video settings sfan5: 3d video output is not all that's needed for VR blaise: to support using split view VR for use with the widely documented cardboard VR headset's that anyone can build and use with a cellphone, there is a vivecraft mod on curseforge.. blaise: google opensourced their cardboard project quite some time ago blaise: and here is an opensource project called phone VR https://github.com/ShootingKing-AM/PhoneVR as an alternative to iVRy, VRidge, and others.. blaise: quite nifty.. and rather fun.. :) Helenah: How do I debug why wheat wont grow all of a sudden? 09s​rinivas: also; > I'd be surprised given how browsers embed it. I'd also be surprised if it's not massive in this age of increasingly common 1 tb drives, does another say 50 mb even matter? tango_: Helenah: sun + wet soil afaik is the only requirement tango_: Helenah: are they in the shadow tango_: oh wtf walls can only be made of cobblestone? 09s​rinivas: no? 09s​rinivas: last i checked there were other bricks too specing: Helenah: heh you look at what changed since it last grew tango_: srinivas: I mean at the actual wall node tango_: srinivas: as far as I can see it's only cobblestone tango_: all others you have to do it with non-connecting 1x1x1 nodes tango_: unless I'm missing something tango_: ah, super duper walls blaise: lmao daiNoZord: http://hastebin.com/poyigiriwa *-- self is nil or object is nil or get_pos is nil. Tried lots more permeatations than in the list. cant even place a node using vector coords relative to placed obj. sfan5: after_place_node = function(pos, placer, itemstack, pointed_thing), is the correct one daiNoZord: sfan5: thanks that's been the one i've generally gone with daiNoZord: should be able to specify x +5, or y -1, or... etc daiNoZord: tried getting original node pos as reference (various ways) daiNoZord: self.object:get_pos - i can't figure out daiNoZord: arithmetic errors are the other thing, say "pos.y = pos.y + 3" daiNoZord: I dunno. I follow "documentation", examples and even the code of other mods. Still can't get things to work. Gustavo6046: Does Pipeworks and/or Technic include a way to automatically funnel items into a block when there are slots available, akin to a Minecraft hopper? Gustavo6046: Er, insert Gustavo6046: "Funnel" is kind of hopper-specific isn't it :P Gustavo6046: But like, a queue e.g. to a furnace specing: build a pipe to it? Gustavo6046: Won't items just keep bouncing in the pipeline like that? specing: not if there are free slots Gustavo6046: Yeah, but the reason is that I don't want to keep tending furnaces specing: then having them bounce around is the desired behaviour? daiNoZord: Oh ffs. Sod it. I think I need to find a less stressful way to waste my time. I don't need to be more miserable than I already am. Cheers tho! specing: why are you putting pos in {}? specing: pos is already a table... specing: l36 looks correct specing: as does 29-34 daiNoZord: dunno. tried loads of permeatations of code from different sources but nothing works. in this case :: init.lua:30: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'y' (a nil value) daiNoZord: http://hastebin.com/yeyulevana shows the error daiNoZord: so many nil values daiNoZord: * shows the error in this particular permeatation specing: after_place_node = function(pos, placer, itemstack, pointed_thing) specing: I don't think placer has an .y component... specing: Perhaps you should try a different permutation of parameters :D daiNoZord: ive tried examples, code advised on forums that apparently works, looked at docs like the wiki's and lua .txt, looked at other mods etc. theres's obviously something simple i am doing wrong. specing: yes, as I just told you VanessaE: more specifically, VanessaE: what speccing is saying is you put your params out of order in the after_place_node entry VanessaE: the engine will always pass them to your code in the order specing stated VanessaE: but you're trying to read them out of order VanessaE: in your paste, correct your after... line (12) to what specing said, and it should work daiNoZord: wow - such a simple mistake. Never realised the order made a difference. Thank you both specing and VanessaE VanessaE: it's always simple, ain't it :) daiNoZord: more often than not :) VanessaE: so to be clear, since you put them in order of `(itemstack, pos, placer, pointed_thing)` but itemstack it getting e.g. { x=123, y=456, z=789 }. `pos` being set to a placer object, `placer` was an item name (probably "testplace:placer") and pointed_thing was the only one in the right place :) VanessaE: -since VanessaE: so yeah, it went boom. :) daiNoZord: i think i get it now. its kinda a question and answer thing. like a symphony. if the bits are in the wrong place it's discordant daiNoZord: it makes a difference if the parameters are in the right order even if a value isnt passed to them? ie not satisfied? specing: then your code will be wrongly correct (or correctly wrong?) specing: (no, they'll all be nil) daiNoZord: I just wonder if all parameters need to be specified, or only those that pertain daiNoZord: well, sorry - included in the brackets not given specifics specing: seems to work just fine if you do not specify unneded parameters specing: might not be according to standard, but ... it works for me specing: brackets? you mean paranthesis? daiNoZord: so, say drop "itemstack" given a test in creative and be ok? yeah technically they are all parentheses if you consider the etymology lol daiNoZord: im glad ive got something more to work with tho - thank you to you both :) Gustavo6046: specing: ah, but is there a way to prevent it from bouncing back to a network (with intersections or whatever)? In Minecraft's BuildCraft a solution would be to use iron transport pipes. Gustavo6046: Also, is there a better way to craft the same recipe multiple times at once (when using stacks) than to just spam click the output slot?? Gustavo6046: (single question mark, oops) Gustavo6046: Better for the server, the connection, and my hand. I'm gonna get carpal tunnel like a Lua developer nesting for loops to access non-straightforward data structures. specing: Gustavo6046: have them go back to a chest, then have an adjustable blinky plant attached to a stackwise filter injector Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: That sounds complicated, but interesting. I'll take a look into it! Thanks! specing: Gustavo6046: for crafting multiples you can use the mouse wheel Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: :o Gustavo6046: That sounds interesting! specing: there seem to be different flavors of unified inventory on different servers, and some even have an "all" button, which crafts as much as possible specing: or use an autocrafter, since it burns through food Gustavo6046: Are there other inventory operations that can be made less tedious using the mouse wheel? Just to be more tenacious. Gustavo6046: Well, this Unified Inventory flavour my friend installer on her server doesn't, sadly. Gustavo6046: I had seen one that did have one. Gustavo6046: Burns through food? specing: crafting costs food/stamina (if you have the stamina mod) Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: I see Gustavo6046: you mean hunger? specing: yes Gustavo6046: ah specing: the bread icons specing: usually Gustavo6046: Thank you! Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Yeah, I see them Gustavo6046: Life quality has just increased massively :D Gustavo6046: Lol I keep putting ladders on ladders and having to remove the floating ones specing: Gustavo6046: you can also use client side mods to improve life quality Gustavo6046: :o Gustavo6046: I thought they were all server-side Gustavo6046: I mean specing: nope :) Gustavo6046: I think someone said that? Gustavo6046: I don't remember Gustavo6046: Ooh Gustavo6046: Now I wanna mod in C++ Gustavo6046: Lua* Gustavo6046: Or maybe add a supplementary JavaScript interface to the codebase, someday VanessaE: sorry I stepped away for a bit there daiNoZord... if you ask for say 4 parameters, and the code calling your function passes only say 2, the first two params in your function get those values and the last two will return nil Gustavo6046: Also, how many times do I have to click animals with wheat to make them breed? :/ VanessaE: daiNoZord: which is to say, since you're being passed individual parameters, they're position-dependent within the parameter list. specing: js... D: VanessaE: daiNoZord: now, had everything been passed as a single table, with proper key=value assignments, then they wouldn't be position dependent. VanessaE: Gustavo6046: MT will likely never get that :P Gustavo6046: Who? Gustavo6046: specing: it's more general-purpose than Lua, imho Gustavo6046: I think it is better for scripting than, anyway VanessaE: Gustavo6046: MT will likely never get javascript. ever. Gustavo6046: And less painful to write, if you ask me Gustavo6046: VanessaE: it will, if you let me push commits >:D VanessaE: and I can't say general-purpose C++ modding is ever gonna happen either Gustavo6046: Not as a replacement, though daiNoZord: ah - so - if i only pass 2 arguments they wont necessarily be recognised? specing: probably Python would be far more valuable to support daiNoZord: sorry that prob doesnt ake sense daiNoZord: *make VanessaE: daiNoZord: if you ask for (foo, bar, baz, qux) and you pass (meh, blah) to it, you'll get foo=meh, bar=blah, and baz and qux will end up `nil`. Gustavo6046: specing: I'm fine with Python, but it is too weird as a embedded language. I like it, but between the big standard library, the batteries-included philosophy and the excessive flexcibility that is often unnecessary in an embedded scripting language, I would say it is kind of unfit for Minetest, especially since voxel games can be kind of performance sensitive. specing: daiNoZord: https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.5.8 Gustavo6046: At least definitely not for processing lots of stuff at once. VanessaE: (because they were the 3rd and 4th args and you passed no valued to them) VanessaE: values* VanessaE: dear G*d no VanessaE: don't point him at the PiL. Gustavo6046: Ew, global interpreter lock VanessaE: oh that isn't the PiL is it. Gustavo6046: Python Image Processing library? Gustavo6046: Pillow is better ^^ specing: VanessaE: I like Python for it's simplicity, but often it's used for projects that are too big (no type checking) or people start using its advanced features (e.g. decorators) and it quickly becomes unreadable specing: or both VanessaE: Gustavo6046: I was mistaking his link for the Programming in Lua manual, which honestly is hard to understand in places. not enough plain language, too much geekery Gustavo6046: Anyways, say, if we wanted software inventory item icon effects, like bumpmaps that reacted to lighting information around the player, Lua might be the best option of the three (Lua/Python/JS) -- since it can be so damn fast (see: LuaJIT). Gustavo6046: But I think that a very simple instruction machine would fare even better. Gustavo6046: Another idea would be, perhaps a language that is much easier to portably compile to metal machine code (x86, ARM, etc) than C or C++ VanessaE: HAH! Gustavo6046: We went full circle xD Gustavo6046: C is fine-ish, but it is finnicky, and its maturity (read: archaicness) shows -- the headers can be a nightmare to work with, or how about the confusing rules with keywords like inline or extern or static or whatever. specing: C is not fine Gustavo6046: specing: I mean in terms of being fast to build to machine code. Gustavo6046: C++ is too heavy and the standard library would only complicate matters. specing: it's not fine in that department, either Gustavo6046: But C is actually a very simple language, by comparison. Gustavo6046: Aren't C compilation times faster than C++ ones? Especially since C++ parsing is so much more involved (read: slower), ESPECIALLY since so much stuff has to be defined in headers (e.g. templates), which means parsing the same stuff again, and again, and again, and... VanessaE: well specing: you just described C, Gustavo6046 Gustavo6046: So Gustavo6046: nono, I don't like C headers either, they feel more like a weird workaround than a language feature specing: they are the same headers Gustavo6046: (and maybe originally they were, when program code stopped fitting in single files, I guess. lol) Gustavo6046: Yeah, but C++ parsing is slower, AND it tends to move a lot of stuff to headers VanessaE: if you consider that these would be mods, not huge apps.. you're talking, what, a couple hundred kB of source? sure it'll take some time to compile, but maybe a minute or so... and the binary can be cached. Gustavo6046: Templates often can't be put in C++ source code specing: C++ is C with addons. Note the part "is C" Gustavo6046: since you never know which kinds might be instantiated, depending on what compilation unit Gustavo6046: specing: C++ is not C with addons. Gustavo6046: That is where you are wrong Gustavo6046: It split off decades ago specing: it still is, the only feature of C not supported in C++ (that I know of) are dot initialisers Gustavo6046: C++ is not just a superset of C Gustavo6046: Although they have lots of common stuff Gustavo6046: so C++ compilers often build on top of C compilers because of that Gustavo6046: (or even, C compilers are C++ compilers with some compatibility changes) Gustavo6046: specing: also, C uses {0} to initialize empty arrasy rather than {} Gustavo6046: er Gustavo6046: not empty arrays specing: Anyway, we are in 2020, we can afford to have the compiler do some extra thinking so that the programmer has to do less thinking (and use said reduction of thinking elsewhere, to be more productive) Gustavo6046: zero-filled variables Gustavo6046: Yes, but if we're emphasizing the modularity (read: mods) of Minetest, which explicitly 'sells' (so to speak) itself as an *engine* and NOT a game, we have to make sure mods won't stop working fine in crappy PCs just because installing them requires waiting hours on the screen for C++ code to compile. Gustavo6046: It can be a reduced, stripped down language (like, not much more high-level than Assembly), as long as it compiles quick enough to be easy to install at a level that is comparable to scripting languages, but at the same time can harness the performance of executing code on metal. Gustavo6046: Say, if we want item icons with lighting-reactive bumpmaps, like I mentioned earlier. Gustavo6046: We could use GLSL shaders, but that's boooring. Using GPUs is boring. I live in 1995. My 486 can render MAP01: Entryway well enough. ;D specing: you can do the reactive icons whatevers in engine code Gustavo6046: That's not very modular of you :c specing: because engine handles rendering formspecs, not lua specing: of me? I didn't write MT specing: I come from SpringRTS, where GUI is done via OpenGL calls from Lua specing: There's GUI libraries in Lua for that purpose specing: and it looks 100 times better than minetest's formspecs VanessaE: anything looks better than them :) VanessaE: (well maybe not on my minislots mod, you wouldn't even know it was a MT formspec :) ) specing: heh specing: VanessaE: I like terumet formspecs the most VanessaE: https://forum.minetest.net/download/file.php?mode=view&id=16595&sid=8587d6ee870317b3a29815fd02786038 Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: wait Gustavo6046: specing: you expose OpenGL immediate mode directly? :/ specing: I wonder how hard it would be to port springrts's lua stuff specing: Gustavo6046: I don't know enough of opengl to answer that Gustavo6046: basically Gustavo6046: glBegin(); glVertex(); ...glEnd(); Gustavo6046: or even just specing: but you can do gl.pushMatrix, gl.billboard from lua Gustavo6046: the OpenGL API specing: yeah Gustavo6046: my bad Gustavo6046: ah Gustavo6046: That sounds kind of daunting specing: hmm, why? Gustavo6046: I imagine the formspecs are at least high erlevel. Gustavo6046: higher level* specing: formspecs are what is there when you have no client-side lua specing: which was true once upon a time Gustavo6046: Ah? Gustavo6046: ah. Gustavo6046: Hm Gustavo6046: What if I want to compute a 2D "light disc" around the player? (an array of lighting on all angles, interpolated in a full turn, representing the amount of light coming from any specific direction in relation to camera space) Gustavo6046: And I want to do so only once per frame, and only for the player owned by clientside (the authoritative client, in legacy Unreal replication speak) Gustavo6046: Anyway, simpler question. Is there a better way to grab the same kind of item from multiple slots than just clicking slot by slot? Gustavo6046: Say, if I use Inventory Unified to lay out all sticks in my inventory to craft ladders, but I've crafted all the ladders I wanted to, and there are still sticks arranged in the seven slots. Gustavo6046: I should have put some song to play while I dig toward -Y eternally. Maybe some ambient electronic or something. Instead I find myself singing Chrono Trigger's theme song again and again, and it distracts me. (I never even played the game much! I gave it a try, spent I think an hour navigating the "intro" section, and gave up after dying shortly after lol) Gustavo6046: Oh wait Gustavo6046: -1001! I'm almost at -1024 already! :o Gustavo6046: How could I not notice. Gustavo6046: Weird, cave. Gustavo6046: I say weird because I've always encountered a cave at -1024 for some reason. Or er, have in the other shaft that reached this deep (don't take out of context), and now again! specing: Gustavo6046: not in unified inv, no. But e.g. technic gold chests have a filter slot with which you can move only one kind of item Gustavo6046: Ah specing: all stacks of that kind Gustavo6046: I see Gustavo6046: That is interesting Gustavo6046: Thanks!@ specing: I suppose you could make a shift-middleclick or something move all stacks of that type specing: in a client side mod Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Yeah Gustavo6046: if I ever do have the guts to learn Minetest's Lua API, I will! specing: it's not possible in the official client, I assure you of that specing: Gustavo6046: see doc/client_lua_api.txt to see what is) Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: then nevermind specing: I have keyboard/mouse input handling on roadmap in my fork, however Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Wait Gustavo6046: I think I know a way to make ore min. depths more gradual Gustavo6046: We can use the integral of the Gaussian normal distribution! Gustavo6046: The more deviation in the normal distribution, the more gradual! Gustavo6046: Then use the output of that as a chance for the corresponding level. Gustavo6046: We don't need to be accurate. Just approximate it somehow. Gustavo6046: I dunno Gustavo6046: Or use exponents. Gustavo6046: In short, a sigmoid function. specing: Gustavo6046: I'd like to see ore spawning in big veins specing: e.g. a lot of nothing, then a vein of 400 iron Gustavo6046: specing: ah, what if the same value determined chance AND size? Gustavo6046: We could have an optional limit where chance caps off at 100%. specing: there are several values for this Gustavo6046: So say, from 0.0 to 1.0 chance ramps from 0% to 100% and size from 0 to (small_max) specing: *tunables* Gustavo6046: Then we do the same at the large cluster depth, but only affecting size, not chance? Gustavo6046: Or maybe chance too. specing: I also don't like that ore probability always increases with depth Gustavo6046: We could even do the sigmoid *again* to affect chance. specing: I'd like to see different ore having maximums at different depths, so that "dig down to -1k" isn't the obvious thing to do when you need ore specing: or perhaps for it to spawn veins in layers, e.g. iron at -100 +- 50 and -500 +- 75 and -1200 +- 50 and so on Gustavo6046: Fair enough Gustavo6046: specing: I like the layers idea Gustavo6046: It makes prospecting far more interesting Gustavo6046: I think the depths are a bit overblown, even for v7 standards Gustavo6046: with 1k I mean specing: Don't start me on the mapgen, where everything fun is placed at y=50 +- 50 specing: I'd like to see tall mountains (>5000 nodes) and deep abyses (-5000) specing: so one would actually have to climb 5000 nodes to get to healing trees, for example specing: also larger biomes... walk 500 nodes and you go from desert to snow to mountain... I mean... come on Gustavo6046: Oh geez Gustavo6046: The sound of the fireball exploding from that big monster in mobs_monster is too loud... Gustavo6046: I got scared XD tango_: Calinou: is there a reason why moreblocks only produces 4 ladders with the standard recipe instead of 5? is it because it used to be 3 in default and moreblocks didn't get updated when default did? tango_: yeah, some of those overrides are way out of date, especially since 5.0.0 is expected now tango_: oh boy the rails one is ANCIENT TomTom: is there a way to see which version of a game is installed? commit sha or version number, preferably in the UI hecks: rubenwardy: any chance of lifting the 3 attachment limit on the forum, at least for very tiny files? hecks: I'm trying to help someone with pixel art and provide some examples, the files are like 4 kB each rubenwardy: That's a question for celeron55, I'm not an admin there hecks: oh I thought you were running it hecks: sorr rubenwardy: I only run ContentDB hecks: okay, thanks tango_: hecks: as a provisional workaround you'll probably need to collect them into a single image tango_: imagemagick the shit out of that ;-) hecks: sadly I wanted to interleave them with text, and baking text in feels dirty hecks: I'll be fine for now but if I were to make an actual tutorial one day, fixing this first would be nice Calinou: tango_: probably, feel free to remove the overrides in a PR tango_: Calinou: way ahead of you 8-) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Use Minetest 5.3 'minetest.is_creative_enabled' API (#2795) 13e6aec88 https://git.io/JIxyH (152020-12-13T17:59:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04RichardTry -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Improve Russian translation (carts) (#2794) 139c29019 https://git.io/JIxyQ (152020-12-13T17:59:07Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04IFRFSX -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update zh_CN translation for mtg_craftguide and dye (#2796) 13a1a5067 https://git.io/JIxy7 (152020-12-13T17:58:54Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SpicyOnta -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix some mistakes in the Indonesian translations (#2758) 130232288 https://git.io/JIxyd (152020-12-13T17:58:37Z) Gustavo6046: What if blocks were divisible? Like, in octrees? Krock: only a few thousand lines of code Gustavo6046: :P Gustavo6046: I know rubenwardy: probably be more than that Krock: unless you'd do it with entities Gustavo6046: It's more efficient than just making the block resolution finer Krock: ~5 million characters of raw source code Gustavo6046: But full blocks would remain untouched Gustavo6046: ((Until they weren't) Gustavo6046: I mean so they could be partially breakable; a single strike from the appropriate tool would break a portion of the block Gustavo6046: I guess octrees would make this slower - you'd have to convert everything to the fine 3D grid and then apply the forces and rebuild the octree - but it would mean more efficient storage. Gustavo6046: Or I have a MUCH simpler idea, how about a frustum overlay, to make the range of block "touching" more clear? rubenwardy: Minetest just isn't this type of voxel game rubenwardy: there are voxel games that use marching cubes to get insane levels of detail tango_: I would be content with bettergraphical handling of half-blocks tango_: like no gaps when putting a post on top of a slab Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: good point, rubenwardy Gustavo6046: Anyway Gustavo6046: hmm Gustavo6046: do Pipeworks tubes not work with Technic machines? (LV furnaces) specing: Gustavo6046: not with LV specing: I think iamweasel: hm iamweasel: why not? i think they do... i have a cactus-powered furnace iamweasel: no wait i am mixing it up, i am thinking default furnace iamweasel: they, LV, definitely have holes for tubes iamweasel: oh, whatddaya know, LV fuel-fired generator is pipeless specing: VanessaE: is there a rate limit setting on vacuum tubes? specing: they keep breaking VanessaE: 20 items/sec VanessaE: all tubes have that limit but you can increase it if needed VanessaE: or rather, 20 itemstacks/second VanessaE: and pipeworks recognizes the hammer provided by a few mods, for repairing them (you just whack the tube once) rubenwardy: try buffering and combining into stacks VanessaE: ^ thwat too VanessaE: ^ that too rubenwardy: ie: put a chest then a blink plant with a stack injector rubenwardy: Source =X>====== Dst X chest, > injector, == tube rubenwardy: or add more tubes in parallel rubenwardy: note that stacks will go alternating ways on each turn if there's no straight ahead rubenwardy: so you can use that to evening distribute rubenwardy: *evenly specing: VanessaE: Okay so, I have a farm around a 8m vacuum tube, and when the server lags and I use the scythe, that frequently results in it picking up more than 20 items specing: thus breaking specing: Why not take half the break limit of itemstacks and leave the other items on the floor for the next iteration? VanessaE: why are you using vacuum tubes for that? use node breakers specing: and make sure the next iteration is far enough in time for the vacuumed itemstacks to combine and clear the tube specing: VanessaE: alright, next example: leaf decay rubenwardy: I flood a field to harvest the crops rubenwardy: and then have 2 vacuums per field VanessaE: leaves don't drop items on-decay normally, specing :P rubenwardy: which have a pipe each, non-buffered specing: Hmm iamweasel: flood the field? rubenwardy: I have a mod for it iamweasel: ah specing: Well actually, autoclicker+scythe+vacuum works well enough Helenah: Is there a way to disable a particular mob? Like er... tree monsters? iamweasel: you can comment them out in init.lua, assuming you are using mobs_monster Helenah: iamweasel: Thanks iamweasel: or you can mess with tree_monster.lua and give them impossible spawn conditions iamweasel: latter way you preserve the ability to inject them, if need be Helenah: Which one is the green monster that throws balls of fire? iamweasel: dm iamweasel: they get various skins, not all green Sokomine: the tree monsters don't throw fireballs. dungeon masters are known for that mis(behaviour) tango_: mobs with ranged attack without ranged weapons for the players are BAD Gustavo6046: I'm trying to find a desert Gustavo6046: Sokomine: dungeon masters do Gustavo6046: specing: ah Gustavo6046: Is marram grass useful at all? Gustavo6046: specing: the blinky plant is like a timer? Gustavo6046: You always mention the blinky-chest-injector pattern, I feel like you like it! :P Gustavo6046: aaa Gustavo6046: I found a bunch of sand overhangs with sandstone at a coast Gustavo6046: it wasn't desert stone ;-; iamweasel: marram grass is just for looks i believe specing: Gustavo6046: I don't like pipeworks too much Biggvs_Richardvs: I installed mobs_redo I think from the content whizbangerator iamweasel: you should get mobs_redo from ten+1 Biggvs_Richardvs: It looks like it showed up as just "mod_mobs" or am I mistaken? Biggvs_Richardvs: Oh ok. Is it no available in the content gui? iamweasel: actually i am sure it's there, i think i seen it there iamweasel: wheni search for 4mobs, mobs_redo by TenPlusOne comes up first, and then you also want its dependents, like mobs_monsters and/or mobs_animals iamweasel: i am not selling it, but i've been using this mod for years now, and it works extremely well iamweasel: mod-pack, really Biggvs_Richardvs: Ya I think that's what I installed Biggvs_Richardvs: When you configure, does it just show up as mod_mobs? iamweasel: i am pretty sure ten+1's mods should all show up as mod_mobs_something Biggvs_Richardvs: Ok, then maybe I didn't get it iamweasel: mod_mobs_redo is the core, and then also mod_mobs_animals and whatnot iamweasel: just installing api won't create any mobs, you will need to get the actual mobs as a separate mod Biggvs_Richardvs: Ya, I have mod_mobs_animals, monsters etc iamweasel: make sure you have mod_mobs_redo Biggvs_Richardvs: was hoping to get mobf_trader working too Biggvs_Richardvs: ok Let me check iamweasel: ten+1 has a trader too, but it's manual (won't spawn by itself) and not very fun by default Biggvs_Richardvs: also, seperate question for Sokomine when you see this, the main page for your awesome villages mod lists these mods as optional: Biggvs_Richardvs: mcl_biomes mcl_dungeons mcl_mapgen_core mcl_strongholds metals mg mob_world_interaction Biggvs_Richardvs: Is the only way to use those in conjunction with mg_villages to run full mineclone? Biggvs_Richardvs: I tried adding them manually to minetest game, and you can guess how that turned out Biggvs_Richardvs: I'm learning...... Biggvs_Richardvs: Just wondering - is there a way to get something like caverealms or df_caverns running on mineclone? I love both games, but would really like to get giant glowing caverns on mineclone too if that's possible. Helenah: So... there's no way of injecting new ores into the stone of a world? Helenah: I would really like to do this... Hawk777: Helenah: I suppose you could make an LBM to do it, maybe? Hawk777: I dunno, make an LBM that runs on stone, have it determine whether you’re in a suitable place and replace some stone with the ore. Helenah: Hawk777: All? Hawk777: LBM would run on each mapblock when it’s first loaded after you introduce the LBM, which is what you want. As people wander around the world, mapblocks get the ore added. Helenah: Hawk777: Where did I read the term "all"? Hawk777: I have no idea. I didn’t say “all”. I don’t know what you mean by “all”. mynick4: exit Helenah: Hawk777: I misread then :3 Helenah: Anyway, thanks for your help. Gustavo6046: Hawk777: but how to guarantee that it only runs for existing chunks? Hawk777: Hm, I don’t know. If you *only* generate ore in the LBM, then you don’t care, new mapblock, existing mapblock, you consider adding ore to them either way. But if you want to generate ore at emerge time for new mapblocks, but do it in the LBM for old mapblocks, I’m not sure how that works. cheapie: Now I'm imagining existing stone buildings getting a new rainbow paint job courtesy of this LBM :P Gustavo6046: ooh Gustavo6046: Hawk777: ah, yeah Gustavo6046: that's the thing Gustavo6046: A mod with new ores and trees was added when some mapblocks were already generated. specing: cheapie: over and over again, I might add specing: Every load makes them more colourful Hawk777: Well, I assumed the LBM would be set to run only once on each mapblock. Hawk777: But if you really want :D cheapie: Never trust the "only runs once" thing to actually only run it once. Hawk777: Why does it exist then? cheapie: If the server owner starts up the server *even just once* without your mod for troubleshooting or something, then puts it back in... those buildings get another fresh coat of rainbow paint. cheapie: I've written my fair share of mods before that depended on the engine handling LBMs as documented... that didn't go too well and it was a pain to clean up the mess. iamweasel: 4HERECY! iamweasel: mt Hawk777: cheapie: no ContentDB for your mods? Not that I have any problem getting them from git, just wondering. cheapie: Hawk777: Nope, I've never found that thing to be very useful at all. Hawk777: *Shrug*. I suppose it makes it harder for some people, but your choice. Hawk777: cheapie: do you accept patches for your mods? I noticed for example that the piston is not documented in the Digistuff README. cheapie: I'm not really doing any development on most of this stuff at the moment :/ cheapie: If it's any help though, the "simple" (string) commands are "extend" "retract" and "retract_sticky" cheapie: You can also send a table, where "action" is "extend" or "retract", "max" is the maximum number of nodes to push/pull (0 when retracting for non-sticky), and "allsticky" can be true to pull a whole stack of nodes along with the thing like movestone does. Hawk777: I saw that, yeah. rubenwardy: cheapie: it's useful for finding mods and stuff, and it's useful for new users rubenwardy: I use contentdb to find mods, and then Git to download them rubenwardy: Also, as a modder you are more technologically competent than most of your users rubenwardy: [01:52] <ffc107cheapie> If the server owner starts up the server *even just once* without your mod for troubleshooting or something, then puts it back in... those buildings get another fresh coat of rainbow paint. rubenwardy: "run once" is done per lbm. That's the entire point of it rubenwardy: So it doesn't matter if they run it before your mod is installed cheapie: I mean like if they install your mod, run the server for a while, then run the server even just one time without the mod, then put the mod back in. cheapie: Unless it's been fixed recently, the LBM(s) runs again. rubenwardy: Surely only on new mapblocks? rubenwardy: If it forgets the LBMs then that's a bug. Which is not unexpected cheapie: Last time I looked at the docs for this (which admittedly was like a year ago) they didn't specify what the behavior should be in this case. cheapie: Like on one hand the LBM is "new" in that it wasn't on the server the last time it was started, but on the other hand it's not new because it's run on these mapblocks before. tango_: oh boy, I'm in trouble. I like the _idea_ of the gravel sieve, but not the execution tango_: or the fact that it's not a standalone mod anymore, for that matter 06小​花ソノガミ: . mazes_81: Hi, I just wanted to have an idea of my current FPS, so printed them via the F5 OSD mazes_81: and left side of screen was quite all red, as FPS where infinite mazes_81: I think there is a divide by zero not handled, however idk if it's related to the engine itself or to "proprietary" nvidia drivers offloaded to intel iGPU (old card GT630M) mazes_81: running under gentoo linux, minetest 5.3.0, kernel 5.4.72, nvidia 398.138 sfan5: a screenshot might help because I can't imagine anything from your description mazes_81: wait a bit mazes_81: no luck the server is not not overloaded, and my FPS are correct mazes_81: to describe exactly, the graph for FPS was filling the whole screen vertically, as calculated FPS were infinite mazes_81: I'll try to get a screenshot next time the server overloads perrier: Humans is turning out to be a good mod. They have drops now and fight monsters. Under development. perrier: I've got dwarves at the surface now. perrier: Dwarves, witches, humans, monsters etc. perrier: When they die it leaves a skeleton on the ground. Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine or anyone familiar with mg_villages, I'm getting a broken/unknown block in the plot purchasing thing: Biggvs_Richardvs: https://postimg.cc/7JqpjVW7 perrier: Biggvs_Richardvs: If you ever want me to test your server let me know. Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: you are running mcl2 or something else that doesn't have mtg textures/items? Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: take a look at config.lua, namely mg_villages.prices see what your game has to offer and what you want to use as prices - and then best change mg_villages.prices in one of your own mods to values that are more fitting for your game Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: those mods listed as optional for mg_villages are listed as optional because they need to run *first*. mg_villages modifies the landscape by creating space for the village and placing the houses. it can only do so when the landscape has been fully generated. thus, the dependencies. you need to list all mapgen mods as soft dependencies to mg_villages if you want to Sokomine: avoid...strange...results. but it's not necessary to run all those optional mods Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: mods listed with a ? behind in depends.txt are optional Sokomine: mobf_trader works as well, but...it really is only a trader that's standing around and doesn't know how to move. might still be of intrest to servers as it is a trader that can be employed by players for trading with other players. it's very versatile in that regard Biggvs_Richardvs: perrier Thatnk you - I may do that. Let me work on it a bit first though Biggvs_Richardvs: SokomineTHANK you! That helped clear up a few "mysteries.", Still can't seem to get any mobs though Biggvs_Richardvs: Here's all the mods I have enabled, running on mtg under version 5.3.0: Biggvs_Richardvs: $ cat worlds/villa/world.mt |grep trueenable_damage = trueload_mod_mobs_animal = trueload_mod_mg_villages = trueload_mod_handle_schematics = trueload_mod_nssm = trueload_mod_mobs_npc = trueload_mod_cottages = trueload_mod_mobs = trueload_mod_mobs_monster = trueload_mod_water_life = true Biggvs_Richardvs: Hmm sorry for the bad formatting Andrey01: hello Biggvs_Richardvs: I loaded mobs_redo from the content thing, and confirmed that after installed it just shows up in the list as "mod_mobs" Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: someone used the plotmarkers mg_villages places in order to let mobs spawn on them (i.e. the npc from mobs_npc) Biggvs_Richardvs: So that's what I'm running. It's a pretty slimmed down game with only villages, its minimum dependencies, and the mobs stuff, but no sign of any mobs anywhere in game. Any help/thoughts much appreciated Andrey01: I`ve never bumped into such problem before, but now to my wondering my mod doesn`t see 'default' global when I register a node in 'sounds' field... Biggvs_Richardvs: I just want to get some cool mobs wandering around your villages ;) Andrey01: although I even enable MTG in any case Andrey01: it throws out 'attempt to index global 'default' (a nil value)' Andrey01: why so? Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: first you ought to get your mobs spawn in general. perhaps you're just not patient enough. it's a constant fight for any mob mod maker to get the spawning "right" - no overcrowding, but no dying out either. that's very difficult :-) have you checked if the mob mods load successfully? you also ought to see eggs in creative inventory if you use the mobs_redo mods and have the right privs Andrey01: maybe did I forget to do something? Sokomine: Andrey01: does your mod depend on default? Andrey01: oh, damn. I seemed to forget to add that dependency there Andrey01: yes, now it works. Thanks Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine Yes all the mods I listed appear to be loading successfully. Definitely all the mob ones are Biggvs_Richardvs: I do have mod_weather. I can't think of anything else in that list that would conflict Biggvs_Richardvs: Is there a config mod I could do that would force mobs to appear, just to test if they work? Biggvs_Richardvs: Will the egg thing in creative mode do that? Biggvs_Richardvs: Godd news: In mtg the plot markers are all working and showing gold/wood to be exchanged. Must just be a bug with mc2 Biggvs_Richardvs: Shoot, looks like I can't change to creative mode on a server Krock: /grantme creative Biggvs_Richardvs: It sounds like you don't see anything in my list of mods that would be a known conflict and stop mobs from spawning Biggvs_Richardvs: I don't suppose there's something obviously missing from that list that would stop mobs? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: GUIFormSpecMenu: Shift+Click listring workaround for MacOS 13e18b6c5 https://git.io/JIPte (152020-12-12T19:55:06Z) Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine NM - just got killed by a tree monster after placing an egg jut outside the village. Sounds like they're just not able to spawn in the village. Any pointers on how I could do that plot marker spawning thing or just modify the config for your mod to let mobs spawn all over the village? I'd love to do a hardcore survival thing in your Biggvs_Richardvs: villages Biggvs_Richardvs: I'm pretty green at all this, the the help is greatly appreciated. Hoe I can return the same in kind someday Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: no, if you want to use the plotmarker interface in mcl2, you really have to set mg_villages.prices to something that exists in mcl2. you can do that in your own mod. just let it depend on mg_villages, and then assign a new value to mg_villages.prices Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: type /mods and see if the mob mods are listed Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: it's possible that mobs_redo monsters don't spawn in protected areas. apart from the sandcity village type that's built exclusively for sand mobs, there ought to be none inside villages anyway (perhaps some in village type ruins?). best set spawning for the npc mobs to the plotmarker Sokomine: hardcore survival...hm...AdventureTest is pretty great in that regard. has villagers that run around and fight horrible monsters - and that give you rewards when you help them fight the monsters. needs some work to wirk with current mt and mg_villages again Sokomine: sadly BrandonReese didn't release the latest version yet and currently doesn't seem to have time to work on it Biggvs_Richardvs: I think I tried that - maybe I'll revisit. Biggvs_Richardvs: Any thoughts on getting mobs to spawn in your villages? RTFM? Biggvs_Richardvs: Like specifically where would I go to set the plot marker for spawning mobs, or preferably just configure so they can spawn anywhere in the village? Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: that's mostly a matter of the mobs mod. i don't know offhand how they are made to spawn and would have to take a look as well Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine Awesome - thank you. I'll start poking around and if I figure womething out that works and makes for a fun survival game, I'll post it back here in case you or anyone else ever wants to use it Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: mobs_npc has a spawn_example.lua file. the npc love brick blocks sourrounded by grass. i'm sure you can teach them to like plotmarkers more :-) Biggvs_Richardvs: Ok so using the treemonster lus as an example, there is this line for nodes: Biggvs_Richardvs: nodes = {"default:leaves", "default:jungleleaves"} Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine what would I changed that to so they use the plot markers? Biggvs_Richardvs: Also for anyone here that can help, the mobs_monsters has a spawn_example.lua - do I need to rename that to something for it to be picked up and executed? Biggvs_Richardvs: Looks like maybe spawn.lua might work perrier: I think the version of minetest I just built is newer than the one that I have installed from Fedora. perrier: Which is cool I like the new sounds. perrier: sushi! That's how I spell success. perrier: I got the bed crash again. I downloaded the zip files from contendb and compiled them. perrier: If anyone's interested http://paste.debian.net/1176442/ perrier: With text wrap http://paste.debian.net/1176444/ Biggvs_Richardvs: Hi all Biggvs_Richardvs: Wondering if anyone is familiar with the Villages mod (mg_villages)? Biggvs_Richardvs: Or just a general question about mods Biggvs_Richardvs: Is it possible to include the MC2 mods in the regular minetest game? Biggvs_Richardvs: I'm looking at this site: Biggvs_Richardvs: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Sokomine/mg_villages/ Biggvs_Richardvs: and it lists several mineclone mods as optional. Problem is, trying to add them into minetest game piecemeal clearly isn't too feasible 11J​onathon: you dont need them if there optional 11J​onathon: well, typically Biggvs_Richardvs: and when I tried to add mg_villages to MC2, they didn't show up. Or if they did, I didn't see any 11J​onathon: there is no solution to having one or the other, so people list both as optional, thats the only thing i can think of where a optional mod is required Biggvs_Richardvs: Ok different angle. Is there a way to get mg_villages to work in MC2? Biggvs_Richardvs: Or modify the config so they actually spawn with the frequency they do in minetest game? Biggvs_Richardvs: I really like MC2, just would love to see this mod with tons of villages/buildings in it 11J​onathon: > Ok different angle. Is there a way to get mg_villages to work in MC2? should work? as long as you install its dependancy handle_schematics Biggvs_Richardvs: Any thoughts/advice on how to approach that would be massively appreciated Biggvs_Richardvs: @Jonathon - do you happen to know if there would a way to increase the spawning frequency Biggvs_Richardvs: of the villages in MC2? Like a way to force it to activate the mod? 11J​onathon: you enable the mod via settings or put them in worldmods of the world you want them on Biggvs_Richardvs: Let me try again and double check on the handle_schematics thing 11J​onathon: have you never added a mod in minetest? Biggvs_Richardvs: yes Biggvs_Richardvs: I got the mod added no prob Biggvs_Richardvs: But no villages 11J​onathon: did you enable it? Biggvs_Richardvs: in MC2 Biggvs_Richardvs: Yes Biggvs_Richardvs: enabled 11J​onathon: oh wait, i think there are mods what depend on mods_villages to provide the houses Biggvs_Richardvs: That's what was frustrating - should be working 11J​onathon: not sure on that 12W​arr1024: Shows up in the /mods command? Biggvs_Richardvs: Let me check on that one. Need a few minutes to span a new game Biggvs_Richardvs: Super appreciate the help 11J​onathon: well, if its cross game, it has to have some sort of list for nodes it can use somewhere 12W​arr1024: If the mod is loaded it should really just work. If it doesn't then I'd argue it's a bug in the mod, and if it requires something else the mod should give you an error message or something telling you what it's missing... 11J​onathon: https://github.com/Sokomine/mg_villages/blob/master/config.lua hmmm, a lot of this stuff is mapped to default 11J​onathon: im not really sure 11J​onathon: sokomine, the author of the mod should? be in irc, can try shooting them a PM Biggvs_Richardvs: Ok lol so I did get it loaded Biggvs_Richardvs: Only when I join the game, it spawns me inside one of the house walls and I'm unable to move and suffocating Biggvs_Richardvs: I was able to teleport out and it was ok Biggvs_Richardvs: any way to change the default spawn location in MC2? specing: Sokomine sounds like a good mod name specing: Sokoban in Minetest Biggvs_Richardvs: specing Right? Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine love the villages mod. looks like it's working with MC2 now. I'm thinking my randon seed number might be why I spawned inside a tree perrier: Did you spawn in the leaves or the wood? Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: you shouldn't spawn inside a tree. mg_villages tries to spawn you directly at the center of a village. unless there's some other mapgen mod involved Sokomine: Biggvs_Richardvs: if you want to use the logcabin village type (and perhaps some others), it might be best to change mineclone2 so that it allows for slabs and stairs and the like to be rotated. mineclone2 is sadly deliberately limited in this regard. houses making use of slabs might look odd iamweasel: several times i got myself into a bind: iamweasel: i stopped in a cart on a break rail at exactly the same place as other player character, and neither of us could get out of the cart iamweasel: cuz we were inside each others' heads, and we couldn't click on the cart iamweasel: one of us had to log off iamweasel: is there like a workaround for this? Sokomine: havn't encountered that yet, but i don't use carts often hecks: How does --terminal actually work? Biggvs_Richardvs: Sokomine Thanks for the reply! I'll give that a try hecks: Do entities ever get deactivated inside a forceloaded block? celeron55: no, except at shutdown, that's the point right? hecks: I guess, it's just not written explicitly in lua_api hecks: I'll repeat my other question, what does --terminal do and how do I use it? sfan5: when running a server, give you an ncurses terminal from where you can execute commands in the name of the user defined by the "name" setting hecks: how do I connect to it? sfan5: it uses the terminal the server was run in sfan5: so this wouldn't work with e.g. a systemd service hecks: I tried cygwin bash and it's not taking commands, I think I also tried it with ksh on openbsd hecks: and I suppose it's not as useful if it requires a term session to the running server. thanks anyway tango_: g33 tango_: egr sorry tango_: OK, serious question. let's say that I patched up the moreblocks handling of stairs and slabs to allow placing on side walls but right side up and conversely, with information from the “where in then surface of the face did the user click?” tango_: I'm still having doubts about how to differentiate between this and the standard placement rules tango_: currently I'm tying it to aux key so that users can still use the default placement rules otherwise tango_: the alternative would be to override sneak+placement instead tango_: I would go with sneak+placement actually, but this leaves the problem open about how to handle param2 inheritance from same-category items (slab against slab) tango_: to clarify, when I place a slab against another slab, I should have at least two options: parallel placement inheriting param2 vs perpendicular placement tango_: perpendicular _to the surface_ tango_: the problem is that which one is which sort of depends on the face the user is clicking tango_: the standard placement rule would make a parallel-to-the-surface placement, which on the side means perpendicular to the slab, while on the top/bottom face means parallel to the slab tango_: while sneak standard placement would be perpendicular-to-the-surface placement, which o the side means parallel to the slab, while on the top/bottom face means perpendicular to the slab tango_: I want to do param2 inheritance (+ optional tuning) when placing parallel to the slab tango_: oh that's a bother cheapie: tango_: If you wanted to get real fancy, sneak+place could cycle through different placement modes without actually placing anything. tango_: cheapie: sure, are you going to pay me to implement it ;-) cheapie: Sure, you can have 7 Imaginary Internet Points™ tango_: cheapie: WOOOHOO I'M RICH cheapie: FWIW, if you don't have the "replacer" mod installed, install that - it makes working with slabs and such a lot easier :P tango_: meh I hope that with the improved placement it'll be less necessary cheapie: It's been ages, but back when I used to do this stuff a lot, I would just carry around a screwdriver and a replacer when working with slabs/stairs/etc. - place one, rotate to where I want, and use the replacer to copy it to everywhere I want that rotation. tango_: cheapie: I prefer achieving as much as that as possible without having to require extra tools tango_: which means fixing the placement rules cheapie: Meh, as long as keeping them the same is either the default or an easily-selectable option, I don't see a problem with that either. tango_: keeping what the same, sorry? cheapie: Perhaps s/keeping them the same/using the current placement rules/ would clarify that a bit. tango_: that's actually why I went with aux+placement cheapie: Like what you suggested a bit ago where normal placement is unchanged, but sneak+place or aux+place uses some "improved" algorithm - sounds fine to me at least. tango_: but the truth is that the default placement rules for stairs and slabs in moreblocks are horrible tango_: I doubt anyone actually uses them without a screwdriver cheapie: For slabs/stairs I've never really needed the screwdriver for basic use. For fancy stuff, sure. tango_: the default placement rules are pretty braindead: nomodifier placement = place parallel to the face, sneak placement = place perpendicular to the face tango_: in moreblocks, mind you. in mtg default they are relatively sane tango_: not perfect, but sane cheapie: "place parallel to the face" is what I want for slabs at least 90% of the time. tango_: in moreblocks they SUCK HORRIBLY cheapie: Stairs maybe 80% tango_: cheapie: are you talking default or moreblocks? cheapie: moreblocks tango_: cheapie: moreblocks for example has no way to place a horizontal slab next to a fullblock on the high position tango_: if you shift+click it goes always on the low position tango_: so if you want to go the high position you need something _above_ it and then placethe slab on the face below tango_: which is ... convoluted to say the least cheapie: I'd argue that that's an unusual/"special" request and that requiring a screwdriver is sane enough. tango_: cheapie: my solution as implemented here https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/160 is to have something more like what default does tango_: which is to go to high or low position depending on where you click on the face of the other block tango_: click in the upper half = go high, click on the lower half of the face = go low tango_: which is actually what I expect it to do cheapie: Sure, as long as it uses a modifier key or other method to select that, which it does. tango_: my idea was to just use sneak+place tango_: i.e. override the “perpendicular placement” tango_: so while now sneak+place always goes below, with this it goes where you actually clicked cheapie: Sneak+place is fine by me too, I've never used the current sneak+place behavior either and I think you're the only one that even fully understands it. tango_: (currently the PR does it with aux+place) tango_: cheapie: I'm definitely not the only one complaining about it 8-) https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/issues/138 tango_: now, sneak+place is for “place orthogonally to the surface” tango_: oh this is where you use the replacer tango_: because the issue with the default placement is that if you have a slab, and place another slab onits side, the second slab gets put vertically tango_: (i.e. “parallel to the side”) cheapie: If I was trying to put in stairs like that I'd just place them on the ground and be done with it :P 11I​hrFussel: Coding such a placement code would take 15 minutes max tango_: cheapie: you don't always have ground for placement cheapie: Then I pull out the replacer :P tango_: ihrfussel: doing it right actually takes considerably more tango_: there's no trivial map between facedir and the face place tango_: the one in default is pretty good, but not perfect tango_: I believe mine is better 11I​hrFussel: The only way to 'listen' to keys outside of callbacks is a globalstep AFAIK tango_: there's no need to listen to keys tango_: when you place you know if the player is sneaking or auxing tango_: there's flag in the placer status info 11I​hrFussel: I was talking about the 'switch between placing modes' method tango_: oh, like cycling until you find the correct one? tango_: I have no plans to implement that honestly tango_: I prefer to have clear, accessible rules 11I​hrFussel: Could also be done using a formspec menu...MT doesn't expose enough keys to really handle multiple methods of the same thing 11I​hrFussel: You could just display a one-time formspec as soon as a player places something asking which method they prefer 11I​hrFussel: That sounds pretty straight-forward to me tango_: you have two modifiers: sneak and aux tango_: this gives you effectively 4 possible placement rules: nomod, sneak, aux, sneak+aux tango_: I think that's plenty tango_: the standard placement rules only use nomod and sneak: nomod means place parallel to the face, sneak means place orthogonal to the face tango_: and the issue is that “orthogonal” has several possibilities (at least 4) tango_: (parallel has several too, but in that case the frequently accessible choices are just 2: same orientation, and opposite) tango_: the rules I wrote (currently used with aux) are all for “face-perpendicular” placement, so they could easily replace the standard sneak placement rule tango_: except for the special handling of same-category elements Helenah: Are the beds bugged? On my server, when the bed is used, the server crashes. I'll look at the logs if they shouldn't be bugged, infact I'll look at the logs now. sfan5: see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10711 Helenah: sfan5: I'd only just seen you message after I uploaded the log entry so I'll post it anyway and will read that. Helenah: https://termbin.com/pz30q Helenah: sfan5: Thank you very much Helenah: For raising that with me, I mean. Helenah: I will now look into replacing minetest_game with a different version. sfan5: it'd be interesting to know where you installed MTG from perrier: The version of MTG for download onthe main website isn't stable it's mislabled I believe. perrier: This one https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/archive/master.zip perrier: I have bed bugs too from it. perrier: And it has new sounds so I know it's not the same as my system version of MTG. sfan5: yeah that's the wrong one sfan5: but I don't think there's a direct download link for MTG on the website perrier: right it sends you to github perrier: This one https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game sfan5: the better question here is: how come you installed minetest 5.3.0 and don't have minetest_game? perrier: I'm building the devel version of the game engine see if bed bugs go away. tango_: daaaaamn, placement is hard perrier: What on tablet? Gustavo6046: Hello o/ perrier: hi Gustavo6046: Thanks! Gustavo6046: Good afternoon, folks. Gustavo6046: Is the Y coordinate in the debug UI foot level? It doesn't seem to be, as it includes a .5 at the end. But it also can't be the center, as a character is 2 units tall, which would mean it would be foot level plus one. Gustavo6046: Also, just out of curiosity, is there a mod that employs neural networks in some way? Like, maybe some mobs or something, dunno? Feel free to ignore this question lol, it's not important, tis mere curiosity. Gustavo6046: I usually expect mobs to be a simple state machine. Which works fine! Again, I'm just curious! Gustavo6046: Also, is it possible to make an ore cluster jitter a Gaussian distribution (to make it clump up a little more toward the center while still having bits in the edges)? I feel like this would make prospecting more interesting, among other things, at least for larger clusters, as you'd gravitate toward more ores to try and find the clumped up center. I'd make copper clusters a bit larger (because Gustavo6046: they're a bit disproportinately small compared to tin, and even iron is a lot more numerous... max 22 for some reason lol) perrier: No bed bugs in development. Gustavo6046: Lol Gustavo6046: thanks Helenah :P Gustavo6046: Anyway, In general I do feel like minetest_game balancing is fine and good enough overall, although it could use some tweaks, eg. the copper I mentioned, or also the fact that more valuable ores spawn so deep down in the crust of the earth. Gustavo6046: Er, underground. Idk why I said that Gustavo6046: I mean, it takes several steel pickaxes just to reach the small Mese ore cluster layer. Which I guess is fine, and maybe even intended, as it means you can't just grab 3 iron thingies and be good to go. Gustavo6046: But it's a bit tedious to dig that far down. Gustavo6046: And on that, tool durabilities are also a little bit low, maybe could be buffed a tiny bit? perrier: In mapgen v6 ore is shallow. perrier: Makes for a shorter game. Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Yeah Gustavo6046: tr8e Gustavo6046: true* perrier: Not everyone has time for deep mining. Gustavo6046: Yeah Gustavo6046: I think what could help is A) have a better method of vertical transport than ladders (minecarts are mostly horizontal, it feels like), and/or B) make small clusters even smaller but extend them further up. Gustavo6046: I feel like the difference between small and larger clusters isn't striking enough. Gustavo6046: Also, is there some keypress I can use to clear a text field instantly if I want to rewrite, say, my password? Gustavo6046: Also, is there a way to know the foot height, and/or the coordinates of the looked at node (rather than just the type), in the debug overlay? perrier: Can you select the text and use backspace to clear it? Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: Well, of course Gustavo6046: But I mean all at once perrier: yea Gustavo6046: The little things can make a big difference in UI design :D Gustavo6046: Backspace is a bit tedious, but that's fine Gustavo6046: Anyway perrier: I wonder how much tnt it would take to destroy the whole world? specing: I wonder how long that blast would take to complete specing: emerging the whole world and then digging it away, spraying entities all over the place Gustavo6046: specing: "I wonder how long that blast would take to fry my computer." FTFY! :P specing: yes, that's what I meant specing: How many computers would it destroy :D cheapie: Knowing how these things tend to go, it's probably more likely to be a question of how long until MT just crashes :P Gustavo6046: :D Gustavo6046: lol cheapie: (and whether it's the engine or a mod that does it, and in the latter case which one) Gustavo6046: cheapie: oh hi! You here too! :v cheapie: Yes, I'm here... barely, I don't play MT much any more. Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: What do you play nowadays? cheapie: Not much :P Gustavo6046: and I mean Gustavo6046: you're basically everywhere in freenode lol Gustavo6046: Ah, fair enough Gustavo6046: You've ever played, say, Unreal Tournament? And Doom? (I'll just leave it to there, because knowing myself I'll just go on a massive endless tangent otherwise lol) perrier: I used to UT2K3 and UT2K4 Helenah: Hi Gustavo6046 :3 Helenah: Fancy seeing you here? o: Helenah: Or was you already here? Gustavo6046: Hai :o Gustavo6046: No I joined a little ago Gustavo6046: perrier: ah, I only do 99 Gustavo6046: TIL you can put ladders on the floor Helenah: Yeah, you can put ladders on the floor. :3 Helenah: What Gustavo6046 said Gustavo6046: :P Gustavo6046: I mean it's probably possible to do *something* with it Helenah: Now, unless the world was to for some mysterious reason turn sideways, I'm not sure what the function of that would be. Gustavo6046: Well Gustavo6046: To climb into air! Gustavo6046: 1 block Helenah: o: cheapie: Gustavo6046: "basically everywhere"? I'm only in 17 channels. Gustavo6046: You can make it look like you're levitating :P Gustavo6046: cheapie: yeah but I've seen you many a place Gustavo6046: Iirc you're even in the AC net? cheapie: I'm on 6 networks. Gustavo6046: Helenah: you can stack them on top of each other xD Gustavo6046: :op Gustavo6046: :o Gustavo6046: they can even stay in midair cheapie: And what, you've never WE-d in a whole stack of ladders and never bothered to orient them correctly? :P cheapie: (IIRC a param2 of 0 puts them on the floor) Gustavo6046: o you use 3D chunks? cheapie: ? Gustavo6046: cheapie: lol Gustavo6046: not really Gustavo6046: I have never used World Edit... so far anyway Gustavo6046: Hey, at least terminal velocity can't be stifled by a single block of water source! * cheapie: pulls out a tube of those DGL555 chips and starts stacking them on Gustavo6046 Gustavo6046: o.o Gustavo6046: what is that thing Gustavo6046: I feel chipped on Gustavo6046: *badumtss* cheapie: The timer chip from digistuff. Gustavo6046: ah cheapie: All three ICs in digistuff (I/O expander, NIC, and timer) have "part numbers" visible on top, and all three start with "DGL" followed by numbers. Gustavo6046: Mm Gustavo6046: :O * Gustavo6046: creates dah DGL 6502 Gustavo6046: lol Gustavo6046: It does sound like a damn lot of fun! cheapie: All three of these are named after real-life chips doing the same or similar functions - the I/O expander (DGL9536) is named after the TI PCA9536, the NIC (DGL8139) is named after the Realtek RTL8139, and I shouldn't really have to explain the timer (DGL555) :P Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: :O Gustavo6046: NIC? Gustavo6046: lol TCP Gustavo6046: I don't know many real integrated circuits Gustavo6046: I wish I knew more Gustavo6046: electronics fascinate me Gustavo6046: semiconductors cheapie: And yes, this is also why the digistuff NIC has a somewhat poorly-drawn crab thing vaguely reminiscent of the Realtek logo on it. Gustavo6046: h Gustavo6046: Does it actually transmit data layer signals through a digiline? cheapie: The "NIC" (which requires digistuff to be added to the HTTP mods list) allows LuaCs to perform HTTP(S) requests to arbitrary URLs. cheapie: It's quite useful, but of course has the potential to be abused and so is fairly limited and is also an optional component. Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: aw Gustavo6046: I thought I could make machines talk with each other in TCP in digilines ;-; cheapie: I don't think there's anything stopping you from encapsulating TCP in digilines messages :P Gustavo6046: Oh? cheapie: Unless they've been screwing with it for no reason when I wasn't looking (they do that a lot), you can send arbitrary strings over digilines and they don't have to be text. Hawk777: Hm, I was wondering, I haven’t used digistuff yet but from the README it looks pretty useful and I think I will. But is there any benefit to using the timer node compared to just using the interrupt function in a Luacontroller? Hawk777: The rest looks pretty useful. cheapie: Hawk777: Unless things have changed (they may have), interrupts don't pause when the LuaC is unloaded. cheapie: The timer IC does. Gustavo6046: Ah Gustavo6046: What is a good method of exploratory mining? Just strip mining? Hawk777: Ah. If I understand correctly events to a LuaC cause the containing block to be loaded so the event can be delivered—so that means the 555 will extend the time period if it’s unloaded, while the LuaC interrupt will always keep perfect time, so one is suitable for real time and the other for timing e.g. plant growth or other stuff that only works when the block is loaded? cheapie: Pretty much. Gustavo6046: It seems a little inefficient, as that way a Mese pickaxe couldn't really dig enough to replenish its own cost in Mese, at least in my case at hgiht -610 Gustavo6046: Hence me wonderinfg cheapie: The main reason I made it is for performance reasons - so you don't have tons of mapblocks kept loaded with LuaCs running non-stop. Gustavo6046: Ah Hawk777: Ah, I see, thanks. cheapie: At least one server actually prohibits setting up LuaCs to run interrupt loops continuously without some method to stop them when the mapblock tries to unload - there are a few methods to do it, or just using a timer instead works. cheapie: The method I used to use before that involved a blinky plant connected to any pin, and then a bit of boilerplate to manage two interrupts - one "clock" and one "sleep". The "sleep" one was reset each time the blinky plant changed states, but if it timed out then the code would stop resetting the "clock" one each time the "clock" interrupt fired. cheapie: If the blinky plant changed state again after it had timed out (meaning the mapblock re-loaded), then both interrupts were set again. specing: Gustavo6046: use an anvil to repair it specing: Gustavo6046: or terumet equipment reformer, or technic workshop cheapie: or creative mode * cheapie: hides :P Hawk777: Wow, that costs a whole pin, and those are in short supply on LuaControllers! I can definitely see the benefit of the timer in that situation. cheapie: Heh, I usually end up using no pins at all :P specing: Hawk777: cheapie's digistuff has io expanders specing: I think Hawk777: Fair. I don’t have Digistuff yet, so to me, pins are really really precious. Hawk777: With an IOX I guess they’re… ahem… *cheap*. * Hawk777: hides specing: you can program a luaC to act as an io expander Hawk777: Well yeah, that’s what I do if I need more of them. cheapie: Another mod if you're wanting to save pins: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/rgblightstone/ Hawk777: Oh nice! Now to convince the guy running my server to install some more mods :D cheapie: You can pull off a few neat tricks with the I/O expanders too - if you connect two or more of them together over digilines and put them on the same channel, they'll "mirror" signals coming in even without a LuaC. Hawk777: Hm, yeah, I guess that would work. Long-distance transmission of many signals at much lower material cost than a zillion mesecons wires. * cheapie: nods, nothing to stop you from running a bunch over one digiline either Hawk777: Right, I was about to compare the recipe costs when I realized you could just put 20 IOXs at each end with different channel names. cheapie: That and some digilines devices have... strange conduction rules and can be (ab)used to send signals through shapes that mesecons can't do. Hawk777: Yeah, like LuaCs being able to send and receive messages in a wire floating in mid-air above themselves. cheapie: The junction box from digistuff is one of these, it'll send to another junction box (and a few other devices) across a 1m gap. cheapie: The dimmable lights do this too - it's intended so that you can do things like and they'll connect even though the ceiling is in the way. cheapie: That and you can also place the lights at every other node and have them connect across those gaps too. Hawk777: Haha now you’re getting me excited to use this stuff, even though I should be working instead :) cheapie: Most of these other devices just conduct normally, but in all directions - like rgblightstone does that, so you can build a big rgblightstone screen and just connect it at one point. cheapie: More digilines stuff \o/ https://cheapiesystems.com/git/printer/ Gustavo6046: yey cheapie: There's, uh, also this, but don't install this on a public-facing server, or better yet just don't install it at all: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/das/ cheapie: Not really documented (partly due to laziness, partly to discourage use) but it lets you talk to SCSI devices from inside MT. cheapie: But that mod is how this thing works. The phone I had at the time had an awful microphone so you'll probably have to turn the volume up a lot to hear anything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf_ZC346lEM Hawk777: Hahaha I was about to say WTF why would anyone make such a mod, and then you showed why! cheapie: Can also talk to hard drives, of course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeiJxJPCn2U Hawk777: Reminds me a bit of, I think it was a Minecraft mod, someone made that would talk to some kind of real-world electronics, maybe an Arduino or something. cheapie: This thing also used it to play the "video" from a real hard drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG48Y_GbMXk cheapie: IIRC I used a custom on-disk format for that one and each frame took up a few sectors on disk. cheapie: Some more stuff that's possible with digilines these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFcRWuGVj8w cheapie: ...you know, I was just thinking that the building blocks (mesecons_carts, and the NIC from digistuff) are there for someone to make some sort of rail transportation setup where you get in a cart, pick your destination on a map on a website somewhere, and get automatically directed through the rail network to the station you chose. cheapie: Complete with handling of multiple users at once (the digilines rails in mesecons_carts can detect who is in the cart). tango_: ok I'm definitely overengineering this thing Hawk777: Well, technically the building blocks are there to do that even without half the things you just mentioned. You can detect the passage of a cart with a track (not its identity, but its presence), and just keep them separated into signalling blocks and pass their destination info from signal box to signal box via Digilines wires as they pass by the locations. I was already planning to do that, when I got a whole pile of free time. Hawk777: A map on a website is a nice idea for usability though! Hawk777: Probably much easier than scrolling through a list of names or trying to somehow jam a map into the in-game world. Hawk777: Detector Rail, that’s the name I was looking for. Hawk777: Though I suppose card scanners could be used as a form of ticketing system if you wanted to add that, or perhaps stored-value transit passes. SX: very nice elevator you got there, just that kind of stuff I love to see in game :) cheapie: I'm still kinda waiting for someone to end up doing PID speed control on the carts... I've done PI before, but never actually put in the D term. cheapie: This includes a few "stations" I've built that do controlled acceleration/deceleration. cheapie: SX: You might like this too, older video but it shows more of the special modes and stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72BR07IVDdY TLuna: ..amazing /minecraft defector online/ cheapie: And yes, I have made machines capable of assembling other machines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4cP_VujDWA cheapie: The real-life equivalent is "just a bit" faster, FWIW: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/my9e-2.webm TLuna: holysh TLuna: (ehm, am i muted) cheapie: TLuna: We can see what you're saying, if that's what you're asking. TLuna: sorry, odd client interface 11I​hrFussel: Gustavo6046, ctrl + a then backspace clears all at once usually Gustavo6046: Ah, thanks Gustavo6046: Oh I was about to come ask a thing lol Gustavo6046: geez crystal balls Gustavo6046: How do I breed the rats from... er, let me try to recall the mod name Gustavo6046: mobs_animal Helenah: Hi Gustavo6046: Hai Helenah: Gustavo6046: yes, that's it, mobs_animal :3 11I​hrFussel: Breeding works by feeding them their desired food enough times till hearts appear and if at least 2 are close to each other chances are high that they mate...this is how it works in the older versions at least rubenwardy: bringing literal meaning to "food is the way to the heart" Gustavo6046: Oop Gustavo6046: internet connection weird Gustavo6046: Do chicken eggs hatch? Gustavo6046: Also I didn't catch any messages after my oop / nvm calcul0n: i don't think you can breed rats, you can just catch them with a right click and an empty hand calcul0n: then use them to breed cats iamweasel: i made large underground flats, dimly lit, and they spawn like 10 rats, so one can "breed" rats via environment iamweasel: just went there periodically and collected them :) Gustavo6046: A iamweasel: you know what i am looking for? a working dino mod Gustavo6046: true Gustavo6046: like JurassicCraft? iamweasel: i tried 2 different versions of paleotest, i rly like the models, but both versions were not working quite right iamweasel: oh i gotta check that out iamweasel: i would be happy with like mobs_paleo, i was already seriously thinking writing it, take the paleotest models and just use the api for random dino spawns perrier: Does anyone know of another mod that supplies the thirst function? perrier: Like hunger_ng or something? perrier: Thirsty still works with but with warnings for deprecation. Gustavo6046: Do mods that affect world generation (eg. ores and trees) add some to an existing world if they detect a world that previously didn't have them? Helenah: If what Gustavo6046 said doesn't happen, is there a way I can... inject the new ores into the ground of the world? Helenah: Like... some sort of stone detection and ore injecting into that? Gustavo6046: Yeah, naybe a worldedit function of some sort Gustavo6046: maybe( Gustavo6046: maybe* Helenah: hmm Biggvs_Richardvs: Howdy all Gustavo6046: Waiting for the day Minetest servers/clients become compatible with Minecraft clients/servers :P Gustavo6046: lol iamweasel: hi Biggvs_Richardvs specing: Gustavo6046: why Gustavo6046: specing: because! iamweasel: Gustavo6046: if, solely due to quantum randomness, the boards of mojang, micro$soft, and $ony go crazy all at the same time, and opensource minecraft forever, why, there's a chance Gustavo6046: lol, true specing: I'd prefer Minetest to be better in every way imaginable Gustavo6046: iamweasel: but I mean Gustavo6046: the protocol is not secret Gustavo6046: there is Cuberite Gustavo6046: which is a Minecraft server reimplementation in C++ Gustavo6046: It's reverse engineering Gustavo6046: But yeah Gustavo6046: M$ is kind of going crazy lately. They open-sourced a bunch of crap lately, but seemed not to go all the way lol, odd Gustavo6046: Also, what is ony? iamweasel: protocol shmotocol, it's about the intent, they can always make sure their clients and servers use secret extensions, this is micro$oft's speciality Gustavo6046: iamweasel: M$ has given Mojang quite a bit of free roaming space Gustavo6046: The game is a very large IP and they seem to be just aware enough of how their touch would insta-ruin it to just let Mojang continue dealing with it instead Gustavo6046: Which I'm kinda glad about, to be honest. More budget, without restricting creative liberties much! Gustavo6046: Although it's not like they didn't try anything with it. Say, Bedrock Edition... which kind of flopped, apart from of course mobile devices. Gustavo6046: Kind of a shame they're so bad at C++ nowadays. Didn't Windows 95 pioneer the usage of C++ in the operating system? Like, something something templates? Biggvs_Richardvs: Hi iamweasel! Gustavo6046: Didn't OLE use templates? I don't remember. Gustavo6046: Eh, M$ iamweasel: ^^ yup Biggvs_Richardvs: Guys I'm having trouble getting any Mobs to show up. I'm running Sokomine 's excellent mg_village mod, and df_caverns, and the only time I can get mobs to show up now that I can tell, is by enabline mobf_trader, but when they show up, they are lying dead and floating lifelessly above the structure they are supposed to be "living" in. Biggvs_Richardvs: Is it ok to dump my mod list? Maybe someone will spot a conflict iamweasel: sorry, i have no experience with any of these mods, but.... iamweasel: use a paste service if possible, like pastebit or the debian one Biggvs_Richardvs: Paste service? Sorry don't know what that is - could you elaborate? iamweasel: ...but perhaps other entities in this channel can help you. i have a lot of experience with mobs_redo and its dependents iamweasel: paste large code samples @ https://paste.debian.net/ and then give us url Biggvs_Richardvs: nm I got it Biggvs_Richardvs: https://justpaste.it/2n0uh iamweasel: it may be a while, hours, before most of the channel users will see this, so it would really help if you hung in here for a while Biggvs_Richardvs: Hi all Biggvs_Richardvs: Running 5.3 as a server, trying to use the aliveai mod just to check it out. Crashed with the following: Biggvs_Richardvs: 2020-12-09 16:48:25: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'aliveai_threats' in callback luaentity_Step(): Invalid position (expected table got nil).2020-12-09 16:48:25: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback:2020-12-09 16:48:25: ERROR[Main]: [C]: in function 'get_objects_inside Biggvs_Richardvs: and a few more similar lines after that Biggvs_Richardvs: I figure the "expected table" thing was the important part Biggvs_Richardvs: Just curious if anyone has a fix, or if this mod is even worth screwing with Biggvs_Richardvs: Don't know anything about it, it just looked cool 11I​hrFussel: You forgot to post the most important part of the error...the exact file and line number (they probably left already can't see via discord) sfan5: they indeed did sfan5: though if the aliveai author would be to see this they could probably fix it hecks: am I supposed to get a nil from get_player_velocity in on_shutdown? sfan5: do players even exist at that point? hecks: hell if I know, but on_leaveplayer isn't called either hecks: and this is singleplayer hecks: oh, #420 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/420 -- Call on_leaveplayer before shutdown in singleplayer hecks: that's ancient hecks: technically it's SP only so I can ignore it, but let me dig around first hecks: well that was stupid, the velocity is also nil in on_leaveplayer Tighe: Hi daiNoZord: I want to place two "post"s and have a forcefield generated between them, i think i need an "anode" and a "kathode". Anode being dummy and kathode active. Kathode: on place node check objs within radius - if objs is anode get pos anode, get pos kathode, compare a.x, a.y, a.z with k.x, k.y, k.z and lay the forcefield between with minetest.place_node. Am I on the right track? tango_: daiNoZord: conceptually it seems to work daiNoZord: tango: thanks! ill get it together soon then :) tango_: daiNoZord: anodes and kathodes should also remove the force field on removal daiNoZord: tango : yes, definitely! on_destruct return? tango_: daiNoZord: you're now out of my lua api knowledge daiNoZord: tango: waaaaay out of my own lol tango_: good luck 8-) Andrey01: hello, does anybody know 'old/new velocity' parameters in 'moveresult' table are vectors along specific axises or along all ones? sfan5: pretty sure its all axes Andrey01: then I think it would be rational to put them in the external table, not in each collision one Andrey01: also I think it would be nice still collision points were calculated in each that table Andrey01: without using raycasting sfan5: huh? sfan5: the old/new velocities are before and after *that particular* collision, putting them globally would be possible but provide less information Andrey01: why would it provide less information? just it would help to avoid unnecessary duplicating those vectors sfan5: but they are not duplicates because they can be different sfan5: maybe I misunderstood your question or you misunderstood my answer regarding specifc axis/all axes Andrey01: you said these vectors in each collision table are similar, that is, they are along all axises (x, y, z), not along the specific one Andrey01: so are they duplicates? sfan5: they are not Andrey01: that I meant, e.g. speific along X vector is '{x=4.5, y=0, z=0}', along Y: '{x=0, y=-2.3, z=0}', along Z: '{x=0, y=0, z=16.7}' Andrey01: so the vector along all three axises: '{x=4.5, y=-2.3, z=16.7}' Andrey01: so did you answer the second example is actual? and the same table will be in all those separate collision tables, yes? sfan5: http://sprunge.us/bk6BDO?lua here's an example, as you can see none of the vectors are duplicate Andrey01: but then I don`t understand at all why 'collisions' needs more than one table, really is it not sufficient to have an one 'old_velocity' and an one 'new_velocity'? Andrey01: that is, it doesn`t need, but can contain* sfan5: and where would you put node_pos? sfan5: and "axis" too? Andrey01: but I talk about 'old/new velocity' now sfan5: it would be possible to have just one velocity but this would make things more complicated if you have bouncy nodes sfan5: if not, it's obvious that a collision on the X axis will set vel.x = 0 specing: VanessaE: *poke* https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/-/issues/37 Andrey01: sfan5 or someone else: *please*, merge #10363. I already did all what was necessary ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10363 -- [MainMenu] Add clear button and icon for search one. by Andrey2470T VanessaE: OW! VanessaE: hey, knock that shit off, I have sensitive skin :P VanessaE: specing: I dunno, if someone wants to make a pull request, I wouldn't mind VanessaE: but I'd really prefer nore to look at these sorts of things VanessaE: (since the tubes code is pretty much all his) specing: Who is "nore"? SX? specing: Oh, there is a nore account here *poke* *poke* Andrey01: nore is a core developer if I don`t mistake VanessaE: specing: nore is ekdohibs on github VanessaE: and gitlab nore: hmm what's happening? VanessaE: nore: see above nore: I see nore: yes, it would be a good idea nore: I'll see when I can find the time to implement it, but I can't really promise anything nore: (or was it a pull request? it seemed like it wasn't) VanessaE: nore: I figured someone should make a PR and you review it :) nore: that would do it :) VanessaE: I'm not really qualified to review PRs related to tube stuff or really most of pipeworks at all :P specing: I made injectors return chest content list via digiline,but no idea what I did with said code specing: Lots of potential there for automated storage&retrieval systems sfan5: Andrey01: I can only approve it, but it looks good this time sfan5: one thing though, I'd swap the position of the search and X button sfan5: can you change that? Andrey01: why? sfan5: intuitively I'd press the button right next to the box and expect that on to perform the action sfan5: but right now that button deletes the text Andrey01: one core dev already suggested that on the github, too, but to be honest, I don`t know which order is more correct Andrey01: ok, I`ll do sfan5: thanks Andrey01: sfan5: done Helenah: Anyone here use mobs redo? For some reason despite the mod showing up in /mods, there is no mobs spawning in the game or I don't know where to look. luk3yx: I think you need to install mobs_animal as well Helenah: Okies I managed to find a horse. Helenah: luk3yx: Oh Helenah: join ##helenahfanclub Helenah: woops sorry Helenah: I missed the / Helenah: I apologise Krock: best channel ever Krock: mobs_redo is a framework, Helenah Helenah: :3 Helenah: I'm glad the ops didn't get down my neck, thank you appreciated. Helenah: Krock: Yeah, though the forum post on it was confusing at the same time as it mentioned things like pigs and stuff. Krock: the only thing that goes down your neck is a Guillotine in the 18th century Krock: by searching "mobs_" in the main menu's content browser you should find some more stuff Krock: "nssm" might also be interesting (monsters), but I dunno how actively that's developed Andrey01: nssm has been abandoned already a long time ago, that is not developed at all Andrey01: unfortunately :((( Krock: !mod nssm MinetestBot: Krock: Not So Simple Mobs [nssm] by npx - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11813 - https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm Krock: 2017? just three years Helenah: I'm on server 5.3.0, pipeworks doesn't seem to load, is it compatible? * VanessaE: hides and pushes nore over into Helenah's line of sight :) Krock: VanessaE: that's not how the game works! * Krock: pulls VanessaE out of the rabbit hole Helenah: VanessaE: What about nore? VanessaE: nore wrote most of the good stuff in pipeworks :) Helenah: Ah :3 VanessaE: but anyway VanessaE: what's the error message? Helenah: VanessaE: No error message, it's set to true in world.mt but doesn't show up in /mods VanessaE: there has to be an error message in debug.txt Helenah: And yes, after setting to true, restarted the server. Helenah: Ah VanessaE: it wouldn't just silently fail * Helenah: looks Corey[m]: unless it's a dependency issue in which it will quietly skip it VanessaE: Corey[m]: no it wouldn't Helenah: VanessaE: According to debug.txt, no failure. Helenah: er... VanessaE: it would report the dependency error roo Helenah: no error message VanessaE: too* VanessaE: Helenah: then you didn't enable it. :) Helenah: VanessaE: I checked again, it's set to true. Corey[m]: Well by quietly I meant the player wouldn't see it unless they were looking at the logs, then again my logs usually get drowned in texture warnings, so I have hard failures instead VanessaE: Helenah: then you did it wrong :) VanessaE: Helenah: just enable it from the menu insteadf VanessaE: -f Corey[m]: VanessaE: I can always try it here, I'd just need to know what version of pipeworks is being used Helenah: VanessaE: It's a server and it's headless cli. VanessaE: Helenah: ok. why not just use worldmods then? Helenah: VanessaE: Cause I thought .minetest/mods would've been fine. VanessaE: worldmods is easier to deal with imho VanessaE: you can just copy a mod folder to there and that's it -- it's installed/enabled. Helenah: VanessaE: No server restart? o: VanessaE: restart still needed, natch Helenah: No adding entreies to world.mt, or setting appended-by-server entries to true? VanessaE: nope. Helenah: Ah nice VanessaE: you just put a mod there and on the next restart, it's enabled, provided its deps are met Corey[m]: pipeworks also needs screwdriver (from minetest_game) and basic_materials Corey[m]: correct me if I'm wrong on that VanessaE: that sounds right VanessaE: and default, too Corey[m]: It loaded for me on a clean world after enabling both dependencies Corey[m]: Well it was a minetest game world, so I skipped default VanessaE: right tango_: question: am I the only one annoyed by the fact that ladders cannot be placed vertically on top of each other without a block behind? Helenah: Okies... MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Various documentation fixes (#10692) 13af07343 https://git.io/JIwlI (152020-12-10T19:59:24Z) Helenah: So I moved my mods to worlds/world/worldmods, that works though still not pipeworks loaded and I checked, pipeworks is in worldmods, also no error message in debug.txt. VanessaE: there HAS to be an error msg VanessaE: unless you're loading the wrong world or something Helenah: VanessaE: I'm telling you, theres no error message. Helenah: Atleast not where I'm told to look for it. VanessaE: there can't NOT be an error, if the mod is indeed placed where MT will find itr Corey[m]: Helenah: Look at the very top of the logs, and look for something like 'unmet dependencies' Helenah: Corey[m]: Nothing there. Corey[m]: Do you have creative mode, do the nodes/blocks/items show up from pipeworks at least? Helenah: Corey[m]: No pipe recipes. Corey[m]: Recipes, so it at least has the items? Corey[m]: If it's just the recipes missing then: bug report! Helenah: Corey[m]: How do I check if it has the items? Corey[m]: That's why I asked if you had creative mode, you could just open your inventory and check the creative tabs for the items in question a quick 'pipeworks' in the search would bring them up, if anything Helenah: Corey[m]: Survival Corey[m]: Can you grant yourself creative, or reload the world in creative? Helenah: Corey[m]: What is the equivalent to /gamemode? Corey[m]: I honestly don't know I work mostly in creative mode Corey[m]: It also depends on what mods are present VanessaE: Helenah: functionally, granting or revoking yourself the creative priv, I guess Corey[m]: Try /grantme creative Helenah: I did that Helenah: So I search pipeworks, nothing Corey[m]: So it really isn't loaded Helenah: Yeah, it's not loaded. Corey[m]: And is it enabled in the world's world.mt file? VanessaE: and your debig.txt goes all the way back to the moment the server is started? Corey[m]: `load_mod_pipeworks = true` ? VanessaE: Corey[m]: it's in worldmods, so world.mt is useless Helenah: VanessaE: Yes, theres not much in that file, it's a new server. Corey[m]: Okay so worldmods... Corey[m]: lemme try a thing Corey[m]: so if I put basic_materials and pipeworks in the worldmods directory it should automatically load correct? VanessaE: yep Corey[m]: loading the world Helenah: Corey[m]: I can confirm that VanessaE is right there. Corey[m]: Yep it worked VanessaE: yoldyaso :) Helenah: Corey[m]: Is the server 5.3.0? VanessaE: that's how my public servers work Corey[m]: touche, now let's see if I can break it Corey[m]: Helenah: Nope this is the client, but its running minetest master Helenah: ah Corey[m]: I just whipped up the world by hand VanessaE: the client launches a server process internally so as far as mods are concerned, it's the same VanessaE: (er thread I guess) Corey[m]: One thing I'm slightly worried about though, is worldmods don't show up on the ui Corey[m]: And that means you can sneak mods into worlds VanessaE: no, but when you're using worldmods to manage a server you have no UI for them to show up in :) VanessaE: "sneak mods into worlds"? maybe with mod security disabled I suppose Corey[m]: Yeah, but if you downloaded the world say from some site and didn't bother to look, it works in singleplayer, quietly VanessaE: oh well that's true Corey[m]: I just see it as a security flaw VanessaE: but that's purely the user being stupid and the person supplying the file being malicious VanessaE: not really the job of the engine to deal with that Corey[m]: heck, if I were to put my mod on the trusted list and then write a compromised version and place it in the worldmods, the player is non the wiser Corey[m]: they just granted me free reign VanessaE: except that a world doesn't override the user's minetest.conf Corey[m]: Yep, but if you know they have a specific trusted_mod, you can name the malicious one after it and place it in the worldmods VanessaE: well that's trye VanessaE: true* Corey[m]: as long as they don't enable the real one from the ui, it will be trusted VanessaE: but that's really no different from them downloading a pirated program from some shady website Corey[m]: Anyway, we're getting off track, back to figuring out why pipeworks doesn't load on the server Corey[m]: or a seemingly legit program from a shady website VanessaE: that too Corey[m]: Helenah: Do you have both pipeworks and basic_materials in the worldmods? Corey[m]: and the world's game is minetest_game? Helenah: Corey[m]: no basic_materials Helenah: and the world's game is minetest_game Corey[m]: Need to go grab that VanessaE: it should have shown you the dependency error Corey[m]: VanessaE: remember when I said it could silently fail P: VanessaE: (in debug.txt) * Helenah: sighs VanessaE: Corey[m]: "can" does not mean "is meant to". MT is not supposed to hide that error VanessaE: ever. Helenah: VanessaE: I'd rather listen to Corey[m] than someone who repeatedly tells me what should happen rather than listening to me saying it doesn't happen. * VanessaE: grumles * VanessaE: grumbles VanessaE: ok fuck it. * VanessaE: wanders off sfan5: it is correct though sfan5: you cannot troubleshoot a problem without assuming that the engine isn't randomly hiding errors from you Helenah: Corey[m]: Okay I'm going to place basic_materials mod Corey[m]: Helenah: Let me know if it works Helenah: but I wont load it until the server isn't active with players again. Helenah: Then I will get back to you. Corey[m]: sfan5: I didn't quite understand, could you rephrase that? sfan5: if you assume the engine is lying to you you'll have a hard time finding the cause of the issue Corey[m]: I've worked with systems that blatantly lied about it's error state, so that's where I'm coming from daiNoZord: it's not code yet - its just my attempt at putting some dots together - does anyone have a min if i hastebin to tell me if i can join these dots together or need to start again? Corey[m]: sfan5: I'll try the same configuration that helenah had and see if the dependency error shows up, if it doesn't and fails, I'll open an issue, how's that sound? sfan5: that'd be helpful Corey[m]: oh wait, this is my patched branch sfan5: daiNoZord: if you post your idea here some will probably give feedback Helenah: Corey[m]: Infact... I'll deploy a test environment. sfan5: someone* Helenah: So I can get back to you right away :3 Corey[m]: No need, I can probably test it here Corey[m]: I just need to switch branches and rebuild it from master vs whatever I have here daiNoZord: sfan5: nice one, thanks daiNoZord: http://hastebin.com/yayicutoce Helenah: Corey[m]: Okies sfan5: daiNoZord: you want to place a straight line of nodes between the kathode and anode? daiNoZord: sfan5: yes, basically sfan5: when a kathode is placed use minetest.find_node_near to find a nearby anode, the rest is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham%27s_line_algorithm and placing the nodes daiNoZord: sfan5: excellent! thanks - ill look into that now :) Corey[m]: sfan5: It works on master, I'll grab the 5.3.0 release and try again there and let you know sfan5: thanks for checking Corey[m]: sfan5: Are there any settings in the configuration that can affect log level? sfan5: probably Corey[m]: I'd need to test against that as well daiNoZord: sfan5: ah is this then using math.abs? sorry.... Corey[m]: sfan5: Worked on 5.3.0 as well, I don't think I need to go any lower Corey[m]: Helenah: Do you still have a copy of the debug.txt, if you do can you upload it to gist or the likes so we can review? Helenah: Sure Helenah: Corey[m]: On the minetest git? Corey[m]: No I just need the log/debug file, I promise I won't use any information in it for evil Helenah: Corey[m]: Am I able to termbin it? Corey[m]: Sure Corey[m]: As long as I can read or download it Helenah: Wait a minute... Helenah: The timestamps seem wrong so I looked for another debug.txt, it's the only one... Corey[m]: the debug.txt is normally in the home directory under `.minetest` on linux Corey[m]: so /home/user/.minetest/debug.txt, not sure of all the other places it can be Helenah: Corey[m]: There is no debug.txt in .minecraft, however there is one outside of it. Corey[m]: minetest* not minecraft P: Corey[m]: Where is the minetest installed? Helenah: Sorry Helenah: I put it in /opt/minetest and run it under a system user 'minetest'. Corey[m]: Okay, and where does it store the worlds? Helenah: Corey[m]: The worlds are /opt/minetest/world Corey[m]: that means the debug.txt should be in /opt/minetest Corey[m]: if not, are you using a specific `--logfile` option? Helenah: Corey[m]: Thanks, fixed the problem. Corey[m]: Still finding the correct logfile is important for future issues Helenah: I forgot I changed the location of the log file... Helenah: Yes Helenah: Anyway, pipeworks should work now. Helenah: It depends on basic_materials. Helenah: I wish this came to mind earlier that I set the log location, damn. Helenah: VanessaE: I do apologise. Corey[m]: Good business, glad it works for you now Helenah: :) Corey[m]: VanessaE: I'll also apologize, if I offended you in any way Corey[m]: I've proven the engine's innocence in this case as well Helenah: Corey[m]: To be honest... it is 9:15pm and I'm working on server stuff. It's my own fault for not working on server stuff with a fresh mind. Corey[m]: We'll chalk this one up as a PEBKAC Corey[m]: That is, problem exists between keyboard and chair or more simply, a user error * VanessaE: shrugs Helenah: Corey[m]: Yes. :) Helenah: VanessaE: I'll shrug too. * Helenah: strugs Helenah: Lets shrug it off heh daiNoZord: more confused now than i was before tho tbh jumbods64: i have a question jumbods64: does anyone know what the built-in skin is supposed to be jumbods64: like, the solid green 2d one jumbods64: i think it's a guy with a hat but what's the black... thingy jumbods64: an eye? a mouth? jumbods64: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Zeg9/minetest-skins/master/skins/textures/player_1.png 08r​a: the void 11I​hrFussel: Corey, I don't really understand your "security flaw" ... If you download someone's world they cut also shove in malicious mods without using worldmods...cause world.mt is part of the world folder as well 11I​hrFussel: they could* 11I​hrFussel: Or maybe they could not Corey[m]: world.mt only contains configuration, it only says what mods should be loaded/enabled Corey[m]: worldmods allows you to ship the entire mod Corey[m]: and if you spoof the name of a known trusted mod, that's where the security flaw starts Corey[m]: since worldmods aren't shown in the config normally the player wouldn't even be aware it's loaded 11I​hrFussel: Just delete worldmods then as user if you find it inside a downloaded world Corey[m]: The flaw works because the average user isn't going to check it Corey[m]: Not everyone would be technical enough to check all the files, much less read the source Corey[m]: to make it worse, they could have legitmate mods mixed in to distract from it 11I​hrFussel: If the world is offered on the forums someone would definitely find it...the same on github...If you download a random world from someone's private server it's a different story Corey[m]: For starters if worldmods are disabled in the config dialog that would be a start, warning the user when an unknown world with worldmods are present and allowing them to verify it is another step jumbods64: wait, is MTDiscord a bot connected to some discord server 11J​onathon: yes 11J​onathon: person@mtdiscord i think its formatted jumbods64: what discord is it, i wanna join... 11J​onathon: here ya go: https://discord.gg/6W84ytH jumbods64: ty 11J​onathon: np swift110: hey all 12J​umboDS64: scott here perrier: I built minetest from source. I wonder why the package maintainter for Fedora built minetest server without the interactive terminal. sfan5: they might not have been aware of the feature perrier: ah perrier: It's enabled by default but the server isn't. daiNoZord: mwah mwah mwah... this is crap. mwah mwah mwah... im taking a break from it. mwah mwah mwah... nn0ble: ndefined symbols for architecture x86_64: nn0ble: "PcgRandom::PcgRandom(unsigned long long, unsigned long long)", referenced from: nn0ble: Sky::updateStars() in sky.cpp.o nn0ble: ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture x86_64 nn0ble: I am getting this error when running make specing: So, why not do similar to how unicode does specing: i.e. utf32 in memory and utf8 on disk, that is: compress the node IDs before saving them and uncompress after loading specing: And the uncompressed format is a compile-time choice that server owners choose VanessaE: well VanessaE: just let the database backend handle any compression there VanessaE: leveldb for example compresses lightly, gets as much as 2:1 on minetest maps VanessaE: no point in baking that into the engine, thus being one more feature to maintain, if the user could simply use a different db specing: true specing: I wonder how well it'd work if one used btrfs to store mapblocks: blocks/block_x/block_y/block_z specing: with compress=zlib or zstd hecks: anyone else getting invalid form errors on the forum all the time? specing: it wants me to feed examples to teach Waymo's AI 11J​onathon: > anyone else getting invalid form errors on the forum all the time? welcome to the forums, the most unstable thing in minetest 05Z​zachary: hong kong Miniontoby: hi Miniontoby: im having an github build minetest but it rn not recoginze the minetest_game Miniontoby: can someone maybe help Miniontoby: ./bin/minetestserver Miniontoby: 2020-12-09 08:04:09: ERROR[Main]: Game specified in default_game [minetest] is invalid. Miniontoby: 2020-12-09 08:04:10: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec Miniontoby: while Miniontoby: ls games Miniontoby: devtest minetest_game Miniontoby: like Miniontoby: ./bin/minetestserver --world worlds/first/ --map-dir worlds/first/ Miniontoby: 2020-12-09 08:13:26: ERROR[Main]: Game [] could not be found. Miniontoby: 2020-12-09 08:13:27: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec Miniontoby: and --gameid list says nothing tango_: pushed an updated to https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/160 —testers welcome tango_: Miniontoby: mintest vs minetest_game ? Miniontoby: hmmm Miniontoby: idk, but yeah i need to get it working Miniontoby: because of hosting soonly tango_: uff, why can't I put a torch on a boat 8-P tango_: I guess I should create a “boat with torches” node that works like the boat but has light Krock: torch is a node Krock: boat is an entity Krock: you can place nodes onto nodes, and attach entities to entities but you cannot mix them specing: We need a helmet light Krock: we need a chocolate rain mod specing: That, too tango_: Krock: yeah so I'm going to create a new entity which is the boat with torches tango_: and since I'm lazy I'll use exactly the same texture and object 8-D Krock: well, you could also spawn a dropped torch and attach that entity Krock: less code but less reliable tango_: Krock: nah I like the idea of the boat with torches, especially if somebody else does the model and texturing afterwards tango_: also more expensive (requires 4 torches and a boat) tango_: the big question is how do I clone an entity Krock: I think there was a Star Wars movie about some cloning 08a​ppguru: > the big question is how do I clone an entity quite simple TBH, create a new entity with the same name & copy the properties tango_: appguru: sure, you just need to know the API ;-) tango_: I'm reading through lua_api.txt to see if there is a get_entity() to get the table Krock: get_luaentity tango_: no I mean the actual entity from the string tango_: get_luaentity needs the entitiy already if I understand correctly? Krock: ah yes, then it's .name or so tango_: no, sorry, I have to make myself more clear tango_: I'm creating a mod. in this mod, I am registering a new entity, and as table to register_entity I want to pass the definition of the entity boats:boat tango_: so I need to access in lua at registration time the table for the given other entity, which I only know by name Krock: minetest.registered_entities["boats:boat"] tango_: ah, found it tango_: right tango_: ah the problem with entities is that they don't automatically handle light tango_: so iirc the way to handle this is to put a light source next to where the entity is while it moves, right? Krock: yes Krock: only nodes can emit light VanessaE: ^ and then, it's only one color :( Krock: oh no Krock: it's a tragedy. at least there's light specing: CSMs are the solution tango_: specing: yeah, but I wanted to have a boat with light specing: CSMs are still the solution specing: And will work on any server, immidiatelly tango_: but only on your client tango_: (?) tango_: or are they distributed to all clients too, just running on client? specing: yes tango_ specing: Only on your client specing: But you could send the CSM to your friends as well specing: Or the server could send it to all connected clients tango_: it's not the same though tango_: since e.g. others wouldn't benefit from my light specing: they would, if they had CSMs that made boats emit light tango_: 8-P iamweasel: this probably been asked million times, but is there a way to emit light 15 underground? from a node and down forever? specing: tango_: CSMs for lighting is something that has been suggested before as the perfect use for CSMs specing: as it's done by replacing nodes and thus causes unnecessary server load specing: (or so I was told) tango_: specing: that would be true if nothing depended on light conditions tango_: specing: but since e.g. farming and mobs do depend on light, it's really not possible specing: tango_: have you ever seen anyone grow crops by holding a torch next to them? specing: Placed lights would still use server-side illumination tango_: specing: torches not, but stronger lights yes tango_: not holding, but keeping it around specing: huh? tango_: specing: they would be fixed, not moving, but still specing: Are they entities or nodes? specing: I grow crops by placing super glow glass next to them, I don't stand there for hours like an idiot specing: and nodes that are placed cause server to calculate illumination *once* tango_: OK tango_: what about mobs whose behavior may be affected by light? tango_: (as in:moving away/towards the light) tango_: for these it wouldn't (or shouldn't) matter if light is wielded or not tango_: in fact, some may be attracted by movement of light, even tango_: without wielded lights or equivalent, this is simply not possible specing: mobs could achieve the same affect by doing a getplayer get_wielded_item tango_: it might not be the player (e.g. boat or cart) specing: without going indirectly through node light levels tango_: the thing about using light levels is that it wouldn't need to be made compatible with every light-emitting entitiy that other mods may come up with specing: I would imagine that a server relying on CSMs for illumination would also communicate which entities generate light specing: and take that into account in mobs tango_: hm stairs not being placeable vertically without a block behind is intentional, or just nobody thought about it? tango_: (think about building vertically without having to lean them against a other blocks tango_: ) daiNoZord: i have a mesh - a "post" node, and a simple, fallible, "forcefield" node. I want to place two "post"s and have a forcefield generated between them, instead of using the mesecon switch i currently do. I can not code. but i am trying to learn. I already reasoned that programming one "post" would be way too much - i need an anode and a kathode. anode being dummy and kathode active. Kathode: on place node check objs within daiNoZord: radius - if objs is anode get pos kathode, get pos kathode, compare a.x, a.y, a.z with k.x, k.y, k.z and lay the forcefield between with minetest.place_node. Am I on the right track? daiNoZord: sorry get pos kathode get pos anode daiNoZord: sorry for pseudo - reading from notes daiNoZord: if anyone is interested i put 5.4 on a 32bit lxle machine with 1gb ram and it works.... but its slow. Works tho. daiNoZord: built and initially tested on lubuntu32 vm and run once on puppy32 live dist daiNoZord: Anyway - at first I was clueless, then I started thinking.... well "walls" kinda does that.... but nowt much helpful there daiNoZord: I found a mod called "filler" which is awesome. but not for these needs. Too complex for me to figure out anyway. just apos bpos cpos dpos epos....... Feel like a noob at the first ever noobcon daiNoZord: i reckon it's probably easier than im making it tbh perrier: all pumpkins must be made into jack-o'-lanterns unless you want to make pumpkin bread. iamweasel: replacer tool sets param2 though, so you can place one node with ceiling or screwdriver, set up replacer, and then use it to build identical nodes by attaching to their sides or whatnot perrier: I haven't used the screwdriver yet. I used the wrench one time. hisforever: I'm hafing trouble ith billboard mod. I copye the code to botton and add my own picture mane in the right place. but get error mesage. here is the billbord nides.lua. https://pastebin.com/cauh5aH1 hisforever: sorry for typoes hisforever: nodes. lua hisforever: I think I'm putting the {-} in the wrong places? hisforever: here is the error in mt .https://imgur.com/a/jurc7nx cheapie: !tell hisforever Extra { on line 119 MinetestBot: cheapie: I'll pass that on when hisforever is around tango_: iamweasel: in moreblocks it seems slabs don't copy param2 tango_: so if I set a slab correctly, I cannot just place another next to it to have it come up same asit tango_: as it systwi: tango_, specing: I'm just using minetest_game, single player. I don't have any farming-related mods installed, excluding any Minetest default mods and TenPlus1's `bonemeal' (which oddly enough doesn't grow papyrus when clicked) systwi: The papyrus is sitting on default:dirt and default:dirt_with_grass, neither grow at all. Both are planted right next to still water. systwi: I haven't tried other biomes. I need to find the one I got the papyrus from again to try planting it there. systwi: I'll also try placing some on default:sand and default:silver_sand to see if that works. iamweasel: systwi: have you tried restarting the server? iamweasel: i've had (non-reproducible) issues with growing some crop before, they seemed to go away after server restart systwi: Yes. Since I play it in single player, the server is restarted each time Minetest is exited and reopened. iamweasel: kk iamweasel: weird systwi: Thanks for the suggestion iamweasel: re bonemeal: it's a great mod, but it only works on a set list of crops, and cactus-like crops (papyrus is one of them) are not supported afaik systwi: Flowers also don't appear to renew either. The wiki article, while last updated in 2019, doesn't state that flowers can't grow in biomes such as tundra beaches. iamweasel: i do not believe crops check biomes systwi: Ah okay, that makes sense. I thought maybe it was supported since using the bonemeal on the papyrus would still use up bonemeal. systwi: Strangely enough, cotton, wheat and blueberries renew perfectly fine in the same biome. systwi: Tree saplings as well. iamweasel: can you do a screenshot of your papyrus patch? systwi: Sure, I'll send one over in a few minutes. iamweasel: no rush iamweasel: yeah the other thing about papyrus, it needs 14 light iamweasel: or 13 light iamweasel: very high iamweasel: underground, needs to have super-glow-glass (14) next to it to advance iamweasel: even the slightest shadow could ruin it tango_: that's true for most crops iirc iamweasel: lots of them are 12 i think systwi: https://i.ibb.co/zR4pxpN/Screen-Shot-2020-12-08-at-1-04-53-AM.png systwi: The two on the left are mud blocks -- the blocks the papyrus were originally growing from when I found them. systwi: *Right, sorry tango_: uh what papyrus is this? systwi: I was reading up on the lighting too. The sun is 15 I believe, and from what I can tell they get ample lighting. My next step was to try building a glowing block and setting it right next to the papyrus to see how that would do (haven't found every supply yet iirc). tango_: is this default:papyrus? never seen it like this tango_: no, sun should be sufficient systwi: Oh, my mistake, it's labelled as "reed". Not sure where it's from. systwi: I don't know how to check. systwi: When I originally looked it up, I did type in "reed" which redirected to the papyrus wiki article. tango_: systwi: when you point to it it should give you the name systwi: swaz:reed tango_: wut systwi: lol let me look through my mods again tango_: yep you definitely have something else systwi: I think it's "SwampZ by runs" systwi: I looked up swaz and that one is installed. systwi: My mistake, sorry for the confusion :-S tango_: oh then the growing conditions are probably different systwi: That would explain it tango_: I guess this is it: https://content.minetest.net/packages/runs/swaz/ systwi: Yep, that's it. tango_: this is the code https://github.com/runsy/swaz/blob/master/init.lua tango_: it doesn't seem like it can be planted though? systwi: Huh, I guess not. I have a rough idea as to what I'm looking at, but I don't know Lua. systwi: Well thanks anyway to everyone who helped. Just another PEBKAC error hahaha. tango_: systwi: for there to be a growing action the mod should have somewhere a register_abm tango_: systwi: see e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L224 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/functions.lua#L266 tango_: (for the way papyrus is handled in MTG) tango_: the swaz mod has only one source file and there doesn't seem to be anything about growing (no abms at all) tango_: I mean you could open an issue ;-) systwi: Thanks for the info. I would open an issue but my GitHub account is locked because I created it while using a VPN (still trying to resolve that problem). iamweasel: systwi: this ain't papyrus i guess :) Mia12: Is there a way to override the default place behavior? I'm trying to make it so when I place a specific block it instead places it in a fixed distance away from the initial place pos Mia12: Is it just a simple as defining a new on_place function? does that replace the original on_place functionality? sfan5: you can override minetest.item_place Mia12: on a item by item basis? sfan5: no that would be on_place sfan5: minetest.item_place is a global function sfan5: sounds like you actually want on_place though Mia12: gotcha tango_: anyway, the real issue with slabs etc is that they occupy a whole block even if they are only half a block tall tango_: but I can see why it'd be nearly impossible to handle them any other way tango_: I mean, one-block blocks above it could be dropped by half a block visually and for interactions, but other half-blocks would completely mess things up iamweasel: yeah, at least it makes sense. sometimes you would not want the to drop :) like if you want to make a "window" by replacing a solid block in a wall with a slab iamweasel: it's an architectural challenge for sure though... Mia12: Where can I find the default on_place? sfan5: minetest.item_place Mia12: Like in the source code sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/item.lua#L419 Mia12: Thanks! tango_: Calinou: no clear super glowing glass? 8-D tango_: or super glowing clear glass, not sure what the grammar rules for english are here Calinou: I suppose that could be added, not sure what the crafting recipe would be Calinou: (there would probably be 2 different ways to craft it) Calinou: if not 3 :P tango_: Calinou: torches over clear glass, just like (super) glowing glass? tango_: or sweeper over super glow, sure tango_: “why not both” tango_: the empty vs full bookshelf I find pretty annoying. we need some way to change the texture of a container depending on what/if it has things inside Calinou: feel free to open a pull request :) tango_: Calinou: sure tango_: Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks this the official repo? Calinou: yep tango_: btw concerning the placement of slabs and stairs, I think the code from the “fixes" mod is actually just the MTG one (re: licensing) Calinou: ah, I guess you can open a PR for it too then Calinou: (separately) tango_: of course tango_: Calinou: do you prefer clean glow glass or glow clean glass? tango_: term-wise Calinou: Clean Glow Glass and Clean Super Glow Glass sound better to me tango_: OK tango_: oh boy all these combos ... tango_: I wonder I should make a lua function to create the “clean" alternatives for everything tango_: (it's missing e.g. also for traps etc) tluna_: is wiki closed to editing by strangers forever? Calinou: tluna_: no, but you need to request an account to edit it Calinou: PM me your email address and desired username :) Calinou: (/query Calinou) tango_: Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/159 8-) Calinou: ah, I see you used colorize to avoid adding any textures Calinou: probably a good move so that third-party texture packs don't need to be updated tango_: Calinou: I mean, I just followed what was already there 8-) Calinou: could you edit CHANGELOG.md in your PR as well? tango_: I think most of those defines could probably be scripted tango_: Calinou: sure tango_: Calinou: force-pushed tango_: now for the placement thing the big issue is that the MTG way loses the possibility to place slabs vertically, IIRC tango_: I wonder if there's some way to have both Calinou: yeah, that's quite bad Calinou: maybe when holding Shfit only? tango_: but shift does the alternative already tango_: (vertical if horizontal, horizontal if vertical) tango_: we need more modifiers tango_: ctrl+shift+alt+win+double-click while squinting Calinou: heh Calinou: reminds me of an easter egg in WxWidgets tango_: actually just copying param2 would be a HUGE step forward Calinou: in any wxWidgets app, do an Ctrl + Alt + Middle click tango_: I could maybe implement that Calinou: (you'll get an about dialog) tango_: wasn't that shift? tango_: maybe it was alt tango_: anywa tango_: do we support alt+click things? Calinou: nope tango_: alt would make sense since it's an ALTernate placement strategy ... Calinou: also a bad idea because most Linux window managers will intercept it by default tango_: I never understood why the sneak key was used for alt action tango_: oh Calinou: it's because it's sent to the server :P Calinou: it would be good if we had 3-4 hardcoded special keys already Calinou: we only have 1 right now (fast mode) tango_: what's fast mode? tango_: oh sneak vs no sneak Calinou: no, that's different Calinou: special1 is bound to E by default Calinou: if fast mode is enabled, you will move faster while holding it tango_: ah tango_: can on_place detect e being pressed? tango_: we could abuse it for the alt placement tango_: aha! but wait, maybe we have a solution tango_: so the idea is that to place things in the upper half of the block you want to do the placement while pointing at the upper half of the face of the block tango_: while doing a horizontal placement tango_: SO, we could do that with shift we do the “perpendicular” placement with the correct up-down (or left/rigt) orientation tango_: while simple click follows the same approach as the current one tango_: a simpler approach would be to allow creation of a frigging wooden screwdriver instead of requiring iron tango_: (but still, when placing several slabs, just copying param2 would be enough tango_: Calinou: I just discovered compressed blocks in moreblocks. would you accept a patch that allowed gravel to be compressed into cobblestone? tango_: (and why not, also the reverse: expand a cobblestone into 9 gravels) 09w​war: So a block that is even cheaper than cobble rubenwardy: I always thought this is weird. Digging stone things with a pickaxe should give you gravel, which then compresses into cobblestone like said tango_: rubenwardy: RIGHT? specing: tango_: gravel -> cobble is unnecessary, because of cobblegens tango_: rubenwardy: not even though, cobbles could be naturally occurring e.g. in riverbeds specing: I agree here specing: and also with rubenwardy tango_: but then you wouldln't know if it was cobbles or a dungeon cobblestone specing: also, if you want nice riverbeds, check out ocean cobble tango_: specing: the point of grave-> cobble isn't to produce cobble, it's to get rid of gravel tango_: specing: this is in the framework of moreblocks' compressed stuff blocks Calinou: tango_: that doesn't really make sense to me, also don't we already have tar as compressed gravel? Calinou: (which is a nice block for roads) tango_: compressing gravel gives you cobblestone, since the geological distinction between gravel and cobbles is lithification tango_: Calinou: hm let me check specing: tango_: you want to get rid of gravel? Thrash it tango_: I'm still a bit unfamiliar with all the moreblocks details tango_: specing: I prefer recycling 8-D specing: tango_: or install techpack and use gravel sieves tango_: Calinou: tar is made by cooking pine Calinou: oh, that changed? tango_: if I'm reading the code correctly tango_: Calinou: e6b5336bad80395c90e2aefa9ded9ac0b59f01dc tango_: apparently to solve conflicts with other mods Calinou: I see Calinou: so I suppose it's not a good idea to add a gravel recipe in moreblocks then tango_: Calinou: but it was a cooking recipe Calinou: right tango_: I was thinking about a simple crafting, like for compressed dirt tango_: I don't know if there are 9-gravel recipes in other mods though tango_: anyway, I should probably look into the placement thing first tango_: damn, default doesn't expose rotate_and_place 09w​war: If u gonna make cobble occur naturally, make a better texture this one will show like grief specing: I recommend using ocean cobble specing: instead of cobble for river/ocean flooring 11J​onathon: ocean cobble from what mod/game? specing: I don't know, the person on whose server I found it, doesen't publish a repo list tango_: OK I need to understand better the difference between under and above for pointed_thing tango_: under I assume is the pos of the node I'm pointing at tango_: but above? 11J​onathon: specing: /mods or serverlist? 11J​onathon: and f5 to get maybe the modname? specing: It's "Your land" and the server list has no list of mods right now specing: bugged to hell 11J​onathon: oh, that place, i believe i know where there mod list is, give me a sec tango_: xocean possibly specing: xocean:ocean_cobble specing: yes 11J​onathon: ah, nevermind then 11J​onathon: and ty tango_: ah under = pos that would be dug vs above = pos where would be placed specing: tango_: I view it as defining a face which is being dug/placed tango_: specing: yeah just got it tango_: I'll propose a doc enhancement rubenwardy: tango_: it's relative to the face you're pointing at. Under is the node behind that face, above is before that face rubenwardy: So if you're pointing at a wall, under will be the wall node you're pointing at, and above will be the air node before it tango_: rubenwardy: yes, but I was trying to build a better mental concept based on the logic behind the rotate_and_place function tango_: to understand the logic behind the choice of facedir rubenwardy: Well, that's exactly how it works rubenwardy: Another way to think about it is in terms of a ray - a 3d line rubenwardy: Under is after collision, above is before VanessaE: ^ unless the pointed thing is buildable_to rubenwardy: Does that actually effect pointed thing? It shouldn't VanessaE: well, there was a time when .under and .above would behave differently VanessaE: I think at the time, the pointed thing would be .above and the node behind it would be .under VanessaE: as if the buildable_to thing wasn't there at all VanessaE: that's tripped me up a few times in the past VanessaE: but maybe I'm wrong or just forgot. tango_: rubenwardy: I would use before/after rather than under/above, for the ray tango_: re. buildable_to, I do see some checks about that here and there tango_: don't know if they are leftovers from a different time or intentional still though rubenwardy: before/after make more sense as names tango_: that being said, I still don't understand the logic behind rotate_and_place VanessaE: neither do I anymore, and I wrote it :) VanessaE: (then ShadowNinja reworked a good portion of it) iamweasel: if you do it alot, it starts making sense on a viceral level :) VanessaE: my original intent was simply to detect floor, ceiling, or wall tango_: it does more than that though, and I like that second part: it does wall vs ceiling based on which half of the under node is being pointed at, except that it does it using the above dir to faceidr tango_: I mean, it works, obviously, but I'm thoroughly confused tango_: hm well except it never does vertical alignment for me, which I guess would be a problem, but there might be other effects at play there VanessaE: *shrug* it was written at a time when all we had to go on were your look yaw and pitch tango_: ok so I'd be better off thinking about how to do it with the modern API VanessaE: yeah VanessaE: might be time to rewrite it again :) * specing: unlocked achievement: getting dump() from builting to crash specing: builtin* MinetestBot: hisforever: Dec-08 01:40 UTC Extra { on line 119 hisforever: Hi I'm totally lost :(. Here is my debug page, https://pastebin.com/9bg7SStg . I know hothing about code. I have to much to start new please Help? specing: 2020-12-08 21:40:27: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Runtime error from mod 'testing' in callback on_item_use(): *builtin*:common/misc_helpers.lua:128: attempt to call global 'getmetatable' (a nil value) specing: what the... luk3yx: specing: Are you running dump() from a CSM? specing: Yes luk3yx specing: It used to work... luk3yx: I'm guessing no-one has tested dump() in CSMs luk3yx: CSMs block getmetatable for security (presumably) specing: Lua refman says getmetatable is in debug.getmetatable hisforever: may I stepin please what is CSM? 11J​onathon: client side mod hisforever: thanks hisforever: I omly play on my machine hisforever: I upgraded Dreambuilders today and everything went belly up lol specing: luk3yx: ah yes, clientmods/preview/init.lua also has multiple calls to dump, so I guess it is adequately tested specing: But I guess it was never dumping userdata, perhaps the bug is in dump() * specing: tests Krock: there's an open issue about that Krock: either for dump or serialize(), not sure. hisforever: here is a image of the error https://imgur.com/a/Ag3AGtq specing: luk3yx: you are correct, debug.getmetatable is disabled from CSMs. However, dump() from builtin still calls it even when invoked from CSMs. VanessaE: hisforever: you have too many mods installed VanessaE: probably something you added outside of dreambuilder which hooks into Moreblocks/stairsplus hisforever: VanessaE: thanks I'll see what I just installed :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04auouymous -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Don't replace protected liquids with bones (#2790) 137ae983b https://git.io/JIEDt (152020-12-08T21:20:16Z) Krock: *too many enabled VanessaE: Krock: yeah. VanessaE: MT needs a higher limit VanessaE: I knew sooner or later someone was gonna hit the 32k limit :) Krock: *intentionally not replying directly because it would be a long discussion* VanessaE: chickenshit ;) Krock: eww VanessaE: ok, s/shit// VanessaE: just chicken then :) specing: VanessaE: I thought that said limit was already hit multiple times? Krock: 🐔 VanessaE: specing: well it has been yeah specing: When crops have _1 .. _8 for growth and there being stairs and microblocks for dozens of nodes... VanessaE: yup VanessaE: imagine how bad it would have been had hardware coloring not become a thing :) VanessaE: to say nothing of how limiting it was having the original limit of...what was it, 4k nodes? :P 11J​onathon: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6101 VanessaE: yeah I was thinking of just that, too VanessaE: but now I'm not sure keeping the limit under 64k will work out, either VanessaE: I say just add another ID byte :) specing: yes 11J​onathon: could get into the "param3" argument as well specing: 24bit node id+ 8 bit node change id + 8 bit microblock id VanessaE: J​onathon yeah specing: the node change id would be for things like crops (same node different textures) VanessaE: nah, that's overkill VanessaE: however, I did propose a while back, having a one-byte field for a texture table rubenwardy: fields should be byte aligned really VanessaE: (it would be an index into a table of tiles{} tables) rubenwardy: however - content_id is already u16, max=65,000. The other half is taken by unknown, which is a bit ridiculous. Could have a sliding border rubenwardy: I know you know of this VanessaE: afaik the only reason it's u16 at all is because of fear of making the map database bigger VanessaE: though if large IDs were stored on a block-by-block basis, the map database would barely change at all luk3yx: I like that idea VanessaE: (i.e. why store 6+ bytes per node if all nodes in a block can be done in 4 bytes per) rubenwardy: there's also in-memory cost rubenwardy: although, I wonder how much that matters in terms of contiguity VanessaE: perhaps, but how much RAM are we talking about? rubenwardy: it's not about RAM rubenwardy: it's about contiguity rubenwardy: CPUs have memory caches, it's faster to access tightly packed memory next to each other VanessaE: oh you meant on that level VanessaE: to be fair, CPU cache is still RAM ;) VanessaE: however, even my old-ass Phenom II 6MB of cache in it VanessaE: (the Phenom I has 2MB) VanessaE: so is that really even an issue when each mapblock would only be 24kB (if using 6 bytes per node) tango_: I've actually been thinking if the block layout should be arranged differently to improve contiguity tango_: for examples depending on what is accessed when, it might be convenient to split node info into multiple arrays so that you have contiguity with similar info from different nodes rather than from different info of the same node rubenwardy: that sounds more like L3 cache, VanessaE VanessaE: yeah, my bad VanessaE: that was L3 rubenwardy: L1 cache is 64KB VanessaE: still, would it REALLY have much of an impact, considering the sheer volume of data you have you chew on during a normal session? tango_: OK I think I managed to do alt placement JUST the way I like it tango_: I'm going to provide a PR for moreblocks tango_: it should also go to MTG IF IT WASN'T DISCONTINUED tango_: 8-/ rubenwardy: this could probably be considered maintenance rather than a new feature tango_: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/160 tango_: rubenwardy: not with the attitude some of the core devs have wrt to this kind of work, honestly tango_: oh unusued variable tango_: uff VanessaE: major fail. the whole thing's gonna blow up :) tango_: VanessaE: 8-) tango_: well this is actually giving me an opportunity to debug the placing from below, that I hadn't done yet, so it's better this way VanessaE: what's next, a typo in a comment? the horror! VanessaE: :) tango_: ah, much better now tango_: OK now checks pass too 8-) tango_: now I'm thinking that maybe we can just use sneak tango_: instead of aux tango_: it makes sense because we're building perperndicularly, after all tango_: simply with a better rotation choice (I think) tango_: ah, the difference is that if we take over the sneak placement we can't build perpendicularly to other slabs specing: I wonder specing: How much RAM is taken up by node data? As in, just the IDs and param2 and other mandatory attributes? specing: *on a server, compared to how much RAM is taken by other stuff VanessaE: the worst I've ever seen was a few gigs on my biggest servers VanessaE: like 7 instances taken together regularly use between 4 and 6 GB VanessaE: two instances run Dreambuilder, the others are much slimmer VanessaE: sometimes more, depends on mods' usage I guess. memory leaks and like that VanessaE: the biggest map database is 65 GB cheapie: tango_: Wasn't it just that you place it on the ground with the corner you want the high part in facing away and to the left? tango_: cheapie: it's not always easy to be able to place it that way. honestly I would prefer it the high part was at the corner you click on the ground cheapie: It never really seemed all that hard to me, I'd usually just stand so that one wall was on my left and the other was in front of me. 05Z​zachary: okay hisforever: Hi I have lighting problems? I think there is a Light fixing mod. the one in world edit makes the lighting worst. 11J​onathon: you can use /fixlight command from builtin, or use /mapfix if you install mod mapfix Mia53: hello Mia53: Can I ask modding questions here? cheshire_cat: hi Mia53 how can we help? Mia53: Thanks! So I'm trying to test how feasible force loading an entire small limited world (1-2k square) is, so I so I created a function to forceload a bunch of blocks using nested loops, but most of the forceload_blocks end up returning "false", and when I look at the force_loaded.txt file in my world directory it only has a few blocks in it. Mia53: Is there some limit of how many forceloaded blocks you can have at once? Mia53: Here's my code: Mia53: local BLOCKSIZE = core.MAP_BLOCKSIZElocal squarsize = 1024local loadx = squarsizelocal loady = 256local loadz = squarsizelocal loadxblocks = math.floor(loadx/BLOCKSIZE)local loadyblocks = math.floor(loady/BLOCKSIZE)local loadzblocks = math.floor(loadz/BLOCKSIZE)local loadxblockshalf = math.floor(loadxblocks/2)local loadyblockshalf = Mia53: math.floor(loadyblocks/2)local loadzblockshalf = math.floor(loadzblocks/2)local pos1 = { x = - loadxblockshalf, y = - loadyblockshalf, z = - loadzblockshalf }local pos2 = { x = loadxblockshalf, y = loadyblockshalf, z = loadzblockshalf }function emerge() minetest.emerge_area(pos1, pos2)endfunction loadmap() minetest.chat_send_all("start force load") Mia53: for ix = - loadxblockshalf, loadxblockshalf , 1 do for iy = - loadyblockshalf, loadyblockshalf , 1 do for iz = - loadzblockshalf, loadzblockshalf , 1 do minetest.chat_send_all("loading " .. tostring(ix) .. " , " .. tostring(iy) .. " , " .. tostring(iz) ) minetest.chat_send_all(tostring(minetest.forceload_block({ x = ix*16, y = Mia53: iy*16, z = iz*16 }))) end end endend Mia53: oof nvm bad formatting cheshire_cat: it would be best to use a paste service for code cheshire_cat: in your server config, what is your 8max_forceloaded_blocks set to, if anything? Mia53: Yeah, anyone in particular? cheshire_cat: like pastebin i think is ok Mia53: It's just a normal singleplayer world I've been testing on cheshire_cat: the srver variable i mentioned is pretty low by default Mia53: https://pastebin.com/VW4MsDMc Mia53: where would I find the server config? cheshire_cat: the default number of forceloaded blocks seems to be 16 cheshire_cat: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1397 Mia53: oh got it cheshire_cat: config location depends on your os i would guess Mia53: I'm running linux, the snap version Mia53: found it cheshire_cat: nice, i was gonna send you here: https://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest.conf cheshire_cat: i am not really sure how this works with snap cheshire_cat: fyi a block is 16x16x16 nodes Mia53: So I guess I can just pump the max as high as I can and see what happens Mia53: Mhm cheshire_cat: lol yeah :D cheshire_cat: a human player loads about 125 they say Mia53: I've been trying to hack together an open source clone of Eco, which is really nice but disgustingly proprietary, ha ha cheshire_cat: that's awesome, so many oss clones are distinctly better than the proprietary originals they are based on :D * cheshire_cat: becomes semi-transparent, and then disappears completely Mia53: So a 2k by 2k by 256 world would require 262,144 blocks loaded at once... fun * cheshire_cat: reappears cheshire_cat: yeah i wonder if cpu becomes a bottleneck at that point Mia53: Heh, so that fixed it, and all the forcedloads returned true, the weird thing is performance seems fine? 60 fps, 52% cpu, 1.4% mem (out of 32GB) Mia53: well the "force_loaded.txt" crashes my text editor when I try to open it, and it's 1.7 mb Mia53: how can I actually test if blocks are loaded? Mia53: Do ABMs operate in force_loaded blocks? cheshire_cat: yeah they supposed to Mia53: so turns out the forceloads weren't actually loading the blocks, I'll check if emerging the blocks helps Mia53: heh that worked, and so far still 60 fps , but a bit more cpu and 7.8% of my memory, which out of 32 GB is 2.4 GB Mia53: so that checks out Mia53: guess now it's just a question to see if ABMs work, and to what extent Mia53: but it looks like kilometer scale full active worlds are actually feasible Hawk777: I was actually wondering a while ago, why is it that a player only loads such a small distance around themselves? a 125-mapblock cube is 5×5×5 mapblocks, or the one you’re standing in and ±2 in each dimension. That can be as little as 32 nodes in front of you. If you’re standing in a decent room, that means the far side of the room isn’t active. I hate to bring up That Other Really Popular Cube-Based Game, but it keeps th Hawk777: active at a much longer distance. So why was 5×5×5 chosen for MT? Mia53: Pure speculation on my part, but my understanding is that some folks like MT because of how low it's requirements are, it can apparently run on a potato Mia53: So maybe it was leaning into that? Hawk777: Mm, certainly makes sense to allow it to be set that low, but it seems odd as a default. I’d have expected the default to be suitable for a typical decent computer and to give a good gameplay experience, and be tunable down for potatoes. Mia53: Basically like how the render range works Mia53: Can you make "multi-block" structures by simply like making a block with a nodebox render type and just make the nodebox larger than a block? Mia53: drawtype i mean Mia53: Is there a method to run some functions as soon as the world starts? 11I​hrFussel: ~api register_on_mods 11I​hrFussel: Doesn't work from here or I made a typo 11I​hrFussel: Use minetest.register_on_mods_loaded(function)) Mia53: Thanks Mia53: So the /emergeblocks command works, but I can't get the actual minetest.emerge_area to function? does it only need the two pos args or am I missing something? Mia53: I am going insane Mia53: minetest.emerge_area(pos1, pos2) Mia53: should just work right? A long as pos are actually defined right? Mia53: is there a way to manually trigger a chat command in the lua? Mia53: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/54606e10/builtin/game/chatcommands.lua#L479-L482 sfan5: yes Mia53: how? sfan5: minetest.registered_chatcommands["/whatever"].func(name, param) sfan5: anyway regarding emerge_area I think the callback & context are required arguments sfan5: wait, it's "whatever" instead of "/whatever" Mia53: what if callback and context are just dummy stuff? sfan5: that'd be okay, they just need to be present Mia53: just tried it, still not working like the emerge block command Mia53: https://pastebin.com/NdadU45t 11I​hrFussel: Maybe for some reason it executes too early? Try to run it inside a minetest.after() sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Mia53: Oh my god i'm an idiot Mia53: I was using blocks to define the pos instead of nodes Mia53: so I was asking emerge to load an area 1/16 the size I wanted systwi: Hi, I'm trying to grow papyrus. I placed several on dirt blocks right next to a lake, but it just doesn't regrow, even after waiting about 12 hours in person. systwi: Could that be because I'm trying to grow it in the tundra? systwi: I'm using 5.3.0 by the way. systwi: To be exact, it's actually the tundra beach. I extended the beach with dirt and lay my plants on there. Mia8: heh, so for those that are curious you can hold a 2 kilometer by 2 kilometer minetest world in active memory only using like 7 gb of ram Mia8: using forceloads Mia8: Using otherwise unmodified Minetestgame and whatever ABM's it has 05e​xe_virus: Nice, now to make a toRAM game of minetest that always is 100% in ram and limits world size to 2K by 2K. 05e​xe_virus: Could maybe be used for arcade games or other game modes specing: systwi: on which server? specing: systwi: maybe it needs to be farmland? specing: Mia8: you can also put the db onto tmpfs and not have to deal with forceloading cheshire_cat: specing: i thought having abms active in the area is one of Mia's goals tango_: specing: papyrus needs to be: in sunlight, on a block that is NOT farmland, and within 3 blocks (IIRC) from water tango_: ehm tango_: wrong person tango_: systwi: ^ cheshire_cat: specing is right though to ask which server: some servers have custom farming rules, but the default in 5.3.0 is like tango_ says tango_: good point perrier: I can't install minetest game update from the installer and I installed it locally and right clicking a bed crashes it, just sayin. So I downgraded. perrier: Other things are working better though I'm seeing a lot more sheep and melons. sfan5: what exactly does it crash with? perrier: When I tried to sleep in a bed it crashed. perrier: Minetest game perrier: I should have saved the error message. Krock: without an error message it's kinda difficult to figure out what went wrong Krock: with some luck it's contained in debug.txt perrier: I'll check. Krock: -> pastebin.com, paste.debian.net etc SoylentCow: ooo paste.deian.net, i was just wondering if there's like a binign version of that service out there :) perrier: https://pastebin.com/fDhhLVWw SoylentCow: perhaps an engine/game version mismatch? what is your minetest version, and what is the minetest-game version? perrier: I left out a line SoylentCow: if they are too different, it could spell problems perrier: https://pastebin.com/wB6fa5JS perrier: Minetest 5.3.0 (Linux) iamweasel: which minetest_game did you get? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/5.3.0/mods/beds/functions.lua#L94 Krock: there's no such line in the 5.3.0 MTG version Krock: however, the lines match with the current master perrier: I tried to get the latest minetest game from the updater but it won't allow it. perrier: So I got it from the webpage and put it in a local folder. Krock: problem is that get_velocity() on players isn't valid prior 5.4.0-dev AFAIK iamweasel: there are plenty valid reasons to use the top of master branch, but for stability sake i would stick with 5.3.0 stable perrier: So that tarball I got was too new? Krock: either that, or your Minetest installation too old Krock: either way, this would be the correct MTG version: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/tree/5.3.0 iamweasel: perhaps, perrier; perhaps it only works correctly with top of the minetest branch, and there's also a small chance it's an actual regression that will be fixed inthe next few days :) Krock: iamweasel: no regression. just a change on both ends that isn't reverse-compatible perrier: I prefer to use the stable release. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! perrier: I still can't install the minetest game update from the installer. perrier: A permission problem perhaps. iamweasel: Krock: good to hear :) Krock: perhaps. you can still download the zip manually from the link above and patch your installation manually perrier: I did that was the problem. Krock: huh? you downloaded the 5.3.0 version? perrier: The updater won't work for me so I got the zip and bed started crashing/ perrier: yea Krock: well see. you can download all revisions of MTG (minetest_game) from GitHub as a zip or tar archive Krock: what you downloaded last time was "master". i.e. the currently newest version (for 5.4.0-dev) perrier: really perrier: ok Krock: the link above (containing "5.3.0") will let you download the 5.3.0 version perrier: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Minetest/minetest_game/ perrier: That's the one I got. Krock: well yeah, that's only for 5.4.0-dev I'd guess Krock: > logs in to contentdb after like 2 months Krock: > 38 notifications, 14 inbox thingies perrier: Ok I unzipped minetest_game in ~/.mintest/games/ should I rename the one installed in /usr/share/? Krock: I'm not sure about the loading priorities.. try it. perrier: I renamed the one in /usr/share/minetest/games/minetest_game_save perrier: Now the updater worked for me sfan5: yeah, using isn't really intended if your games are installed system-wide sfan5: using the updater* perrier: I like the new sounds I hear the furnace now. perrier: Crashed again perrier: I can't use the new minetest game perrier: From the updater or download. perrier: As soon as I go back to my system version the bed works. sfan5: Krock: MTG master is incorrectly packaged as 5.3.0 on contentdb Krock: why is MTG on CDB anyway? rubenwardy: I've deleted the release, it won't be downloadable now rubenwardy: why is MTG on CDB anyway? rubenwardy: So people can review it, and because it isn't always installed by default Krock: hmm I see perrier: As a side note if you start the linux desktop version of Discord it says there's an update but the only options are a .deb a tarball and another opt out. perrier: I opened the tarball but it segfaulted when I ran the binary. perrier: It was working fine last week. tango_: in moreblocks, how do you place a slab on the UPPER half of the block? I've managed to place it on the lower half and vertically in a variety of position, but never on the upper half tango_: which is considerably annoying because anything I place on the slab then has half a block of gap perrier: I had the same problem. tango_: I don't get it. how is it different from mtg? * tango_: goes to look at the logic there tango_: ah onplace logic tango_: perrier: got it.It's extremely annoying, but you can do it by placing it under another block perrier: I might start compiling minetest because I want to try the ncurses console. perrier: tango_: oh that's good to know. iamweasel: tango_: stick them to the ceiling? iamweasel: also, there's replacer mod iamweasel: it's pretty powerful, so you may want to nuke the recipe in a public server setting 05e​xe_virus: Replacer is quite useful tango_: iamweasel: yeah, just found that out tango_: iamweasel: but having to stick it to the ceiling is pretty annoying since if you want to do it anywhere else you need to place something above it first and then place the slab tango_: annoying as heck and needs space below tango_: in MTG the logic was considerably improved tango_: uh nightskip doesn't actually accelerate time, the furnaces don't consume all they should perrier: ah hisforever: Hi I'm trying o build a factory. How do I set up My sourting tubs? https://imgur.com/a/cHeWaHQ hisforever: is there a url to explain the sorting tubs? Hawk777: Sure, the mod’s homepage has some info: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/-/wikis/home#mese-sorting-tubes hisforever: Hawk777: Thanks I've been looking for a long time for this info:) hecks: I'm working on a server that's going to host an original game made just for it. Where on the forum do I post about it? The server isn't live yet, but hopefully will be soon. rubenwardy: Servers hecks: Even though it isn't live yet? mazes_81: hi all, I used to play on a server named "Elidragon skyblock", but since some weeks it seems off mazes_81: does somebody know who made/maintained this server, I would be interested in fetching sources, as I found it really nice Krock: no idea mazes_81: ok, found it on Fleckenstein github mazes_81: sorry for the noise daiNoZord: Is there a Linux 32bit version of Minetest available that's reasonably up-to-date? Krock: daiNoZord: no, but if you ask me very gently I might build you one for Ubuntu 18.04 on my old laptop Krock: at least not that I know of. Krock: assuming you already checked https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/daily-builds Krock: or comparable repositories, depending on your distro daiNoZord: Is it case of compiling on a 32bit machine? would a VM do? It's for my lads pc but I don't have access to that. Just got him Puppy to try to revive an ancient windows box Krock: VM or cross-compiling is possible daiNoZord: Thanks Krock - I found a i386 .deb on the link you posted. Didn't find that in my search. Hopefully that'll do it :) Krock: good luck! ura: Hello, i am a new user of World Edit, i make a repetitive movement and i try to use World Edit to make that faster, but when i try to use the "//save" command, the game gets back to menu and give me an error message "nil value", can someone help me? Krock: hi. would you like to export a map section to the server's files? Krock: it would be helpful to have the whole error message to figure out what exactly is going wrong (pastebin, paste.debian.net etc) Krock: ^ ura ura: yes, sorry i was afk, the message is: https://framabin.org/p/?1af3f7176c8d6391#cn+R+viRNOOrW+HjszHRN9A+I6NXpX7u5RhIWwNcJn0= Krock: original source: https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/blob/master/worldedit_commands/init.lua#L859 Krock: there's no mention of "execute", hence I'd recommend to update WE first and retry. perhaps it has already been fixed ura: OK, I'll try, but I'm using Debian packaged version, so this might not be uptodate ura: Thanks, btw Krock: please don't install mods using distro repositories. instead, consider using git clone or the integrated content manager to download mods Krock: it might be an easy solution, but the mods will be somewhat outdated after a while ura: sure, but on the other side, the stability brought by the distro somehow counts! ura: thanks for your help, btw. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! tango_: hm is it just me or there is no way to have two favorite servers? tango_: if I connect to a server adding its IP manually, and then connect to a new ona again adding it manually, the old one isn't listed anymore Krock: it should. perhaps it's a bug. Krock: seen similar reports already. please check the issue tracker tango_: Krock: let me see rubenwardy: tango_, Krock: I have a PR open to fix this. In the meantime, delete client/favorites.txt (whatever it's called) and try again rubenwardy: it happens when the file is corrupted rubenwardy: PR: #10085 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10085 -- Use JSON for favorites, move server list code to Lua by rubenwardy tango_: rubenwardy: I'll check, thanks tango_: hm why can't I put a torch on a boat 8-/ biggvs_richardvs: Hi all. New to channel, been a minetest fan for years hecks: hi =] biggvs_richardvs: Just curious - is there a list of games that are known to work well with 5.3 or whatever the latest stable is? 05e​xe_virus: basically all of them biggvs_richardvs: I keep finding these cames that crash with 5.3 05e​xe_virus: new versions are nearly always backwards compatible. What games and what errors? biggvs_richardvs: I tried the Zelda thened one, but it crashes every time some particular weather gets invoked hecks: And it works in 5.2? biggvs_richardvs: No that crashed too biggvs_richardvs: I had to go back to 5.1.1 I think 05e​xe_virus: because likely it's been broken since 0.4 haha biggvs_richardvs: Also this one biggvs_richardvs: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9184 biggvs_richardvs: "Adventuretest" biggvs_richardvs: Won't even start on anything but 5.0.x biggvs_richardvs: Runs on 4.x but then my 5.3 client can't connect hecks: My guess would be that things on ContentDB would at least be somewhat up to date biggvs_richardvs: I've build like 4 versions of MT from source under the same subdirectory, so I can easily switch between versions for the server biggvs_richardvs: Happy to drop the error messages when they crash if it would help hecks: You're better off dropping them to the maintainers of those respective games 05e​xe_virus: that's generally best. Github or gitlab issues 05e​xe_virus: not minetest 05e​xe_virus: we don't maintain mods or games in github/minetest biggvs_richardvs: Ya. Unfortunately adventuretest looks like nobody has looked at it since 2012 biggvs_richardvs: Zelda 2016 05e​xe_virus: could maybe upload/fork them and someone could get around to it? biggvs_richardvs: I could be mistaken. Just going by most recent post on the game board 05e​xe_virus: Shouldn't be too hard to update them biggvs_richardvs: MTDiscord sounds like a worthy thing when I'm able hecks: Well if the game is abandoned and you want it for your server, maybe you can try patching it up yourself. hecks: Ideally games shouldn't break but stuff happens biggvs_richardvs: Ya, might be a bit past my skill level. Can anyone recommend a cool game or know known to work well with 5.3 biggvs_richardvs: err I can type hecks: exile is cool =] biggvs_richardvs: ok thank you I'll give it a go hecks: oh but right, it's not prepared for multiplayer hecks: I forgot, the one server that ran it had a guy who patched it specifically for that biggvs_richardvs: ugh. The minetest forum is in maintenance mode hecks: yup hecks: I do have some advice for you though biggvs_richardvs: Do you happen to have a link to github for exile? hecks: uhhhh well it should be on contentdb sfan5: !mod exile biggvs_richardvs: yes @hecks? MinetestBot: sfan5: Exile 0.2.1 by Dokimi - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24334 - https://github.com/DokimiCU/Exile sfan5: uhh that one I guess? biggvs_richardvs: Thank you! hecks: but once again, I forgot that multiplayer is iffy on that and you'd have to ask a guy named Gundul for a fixed up version hecks: of course it's just my personal taste, the game might not be everybody's fancy hecks: anyway my advice is, you don't always need to install a fancy game to run a cool server biggvs_richardvs: Sure. Happy to try it out hecks: one of the best servers ever in MT was an almost vanilla server with some crude mobs and no biomes hecks: it's the fact that there were no biomes, no soil and no trees that made it interesting, the mobs were the only source of biomass hecks: and despite the absolute poverty, players managed to make an entire city in that wasteland, with their own hands daiNoZord: can anyone help with a compiling minetest question? hecks: yup? hecks: go ahead daiNoZord daiNoZord: thanks - i ran make & its looking for ftbuild2 in the wrong place - can i change that? on ubuntu daiNoZord: sorry ft2build hecks: I guess that's freetype daiNoZord: yeah - its installed hecks: and I think there's an option you can pass to cmake to override the location of that hecks: not sure, let me check sfan5: what is "the wrong place" and how did you determine that? daiNoZord: its not in include but in freetype2 dir hecks: try FREETYPE_INCLUDE_DIR_ft2build sfan5: usuaally cmake searches the right path on its own, or did you override those? sfan5: usually* hecks: like -DFREETYPE_INCLUDE_DIR_ft2build=(path) daiNoZord: is that after make -j$(nproc) ? hecks: no, when you invoke cmake hecks: you have to run cmake first hecks: then make hecks: and if you didn't run cmake, well then, just do that and it'll probably work hecks: if you need cmake to do anything differently, here are the options hecks: https://github.com/minetest/minetest#cmake-options guest2: Will minetest ever be able to compete with minecraft java? daiNoZord: i ran cmake first - been tryna get this far all day - now running cmake it says /usr/include/freetype2 does not appear to contain cmakelists.txt sfan5: guest2: in terms of game experience and features, likely not anytime soon or never guest2: Sfan5: how about performance? hecks: guest2: minetest already wins because it's free software and continues to evolve sfan5: it does already run better than Minecraft (java) on some configurations, particularily low end sfan5: daiNoZord: if you set an option do not put a space between the name, = and value hecks: I heard that java MC runs on a single thread, and "mods" are very hackily implemented daiNoZord: sfan: thanks - im tryin again now. got up to 77% then new issues - ill persevere biggvs_richardvs: Exile just crashed too biggvs_richardvs: 2020-12-06 15:04:53: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting downMegamorph time overhead: 0.0710912020-12-06 15:04:54: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'bed_rest' in callback on_leaveplayer(): Invalid position (expected table got boolean). hecks: ah, friggin megamorph hecks: never mind that recommendation biggvs_richardvs: :D 11J​onathon: can try nodecore, that should work on 5.3 hecks: I really like the game but some mods it uses are very poorly coded biggvs_richardvs: It did look pretty cool hecks: megamorph in particular, it's the dungeon generator biggvs_richardvs: Ahh ok 11J​onathon: also repixture should work on 5.3 hecks: if you really want to see it work though hecks: ask Gundul for a working version because he sort of fixed it hecks: keep in mind that megamorph is so slow that one person exploring the dungeons can lag the whole server biggvs_richardvs: Ok. I don't know Gundui, but if I see him I'll ask biggvs_richardvs: Ahh ok biggvs_richardvs: Sounds pretty cool though - do you know of a game or mod with megamorph that works with 5.3? I can also fire up 5.1.1 or any of the 5.x versions if that would help daiNoZord: whoo! works :) tango_: I never managed to understand how to place corner stairs tango_: it's nearly impossible to get it right on the first try tango_: a screwdriver is essential BUT you need iron for it ... specing: If only iron wasn't so hard to find... specing: I like AGPLv3 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "Increase limit for simultaneous blocks sent per client and th… 1307e0b52 https://git.io/JIs7H (152020-12-05T03:06:16Z) 11I​hrFussel: AGPL will ALWAYS limit the creativity of server owners by default imo, because absolutely everything they tweak in order to be unique must be published...Personally I hate that license 11I​hrFussel: I'm not against sharing some code or helping others with their wanted features, but having to publish every single bit I changed is a big no-no for me 11I​hrFussel: Because of that license I had to remove some mods my players loved...it's a pitty 11J​onathon: i dont mind it i suppose, but im a MIT guy for everything i originally write 11I​hrFussel: I actually published 1 mod in the past I think and its code is MIT too 11I​hrFussel: So I think as long as server owners share their knowledge in some way, it's not unfair to have them "lock" their content away from the community 11I​hrFussel: I also coded stuff for quite a few people in this discord server here already, so I'm willing to share knowledge and help at least 11J​onathon: Heh, i can understand some stuff, but by in large i open up my stuff 11J​onathon: I.e. ive written some stuff for people with nonfree media they made 11I​hrFussel: In my opinion every snippet you share counts even if it's not a full mod you at least helped someone with some parts 11I​hrFussel: With that snippet they might be able to continue their project so you definitely contributed to the community 11J​onathon: I see no point in releaseing almost by the book node defs without media lol 11I​hrFussel: I'm not sure how licensing works though if a mod contains many small snipets by other...Usually you don't require a license for a simple snippet but maybe some do 11J​onathon: Im nal, but i think once its out of common use/small should be liscensed/attributed 11I​hrFussel: I didn't see a MT snippet yet that requires attribution at least...or does ruben's modding book? 11J​onathon: No idea, i believe that has a license 11J​onathon: But stuff like basic node registration literally everyone has to do 11I​hrFussel: Yeah or basic use of callbacks...it's in almost every mod Calinou: the number of lines required for a code snippet to be copyrightable is usually considered to be around 20 Calinou: of course, it depends on what the snippet contains 11J​onathon: Figures 12W​arr1024: If the "snippet" is significant enough to warrant publishing at all then a few minimis exception probably doesn't apply and the work would be copyrighted and would need either a license or a reassignment. The only cases where I assume de minimis applies is when someone says like "that + should be a - on line 5" or something. lmat: cheapie: heh. I have no idea what silver sand is either I just figured that whatever it is, it could probably be used to create a convincing concrete. Fair argument :-D tango_: is there a way to prevent automatic registration for users? tango_: I'd like to put a server up in public, but I don't want random users to login as they please tango_: s/login/create account sfan5: the keyword you're looking for is "whitelist" tango_: sfan5: thanks heavygale: or a default_password tech_exorcist: wouldn't it eb safer to put the password's hash in the default_password field instead of the plaintext password? tech_exorcist: s/ eb / be / hecks: tango_: you can also just run your server unlisted Andrey01: does anybody know if I call 'minetest.after()' inside a body of a loop will this loop await for when that function gets implemented or immediately continue to go on? sfan5: it will not specing: the latter hecks: .after just gives the engine a closure to run later Andrey01: hmm, I have an other question, can I also create coroutines in mods? Andrey01: It would be interesting to know how the main thread would behave in such case' Andrey01: if create them hecks: coroutines aren't actually threads hecks: and minetest gives you a complete lua vm, you can do anything that's in the manual Andrey01: why? o_O hecks: coroutines don't spawn new OS threads, they're... coroutines hecks: coroutines share time with the main thread and have to yield manually hecks: however, if you want real threads, you can do that too - it's tricky but possible with luajit hecks: and maybe even plain lua? check out the 'lanes' module Andrey01: well, as I know they are just implemented over the system ones, but I think they are threads whatever Andrey01: and also they use 'thread' type :) hecks: no, coroutines aren't threads, they do not suffer from sync problems among other things hecks: and they give you no performance benefit. in any case, you're free to use them in mt Hawk777: https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.11 ← consider reading the manual: coroutines run until they yield (rather than until preempted), they only run when explicitly resumed (rather than whenever there is free CPU time available) Hawk777: So they are not threads. hecks: yup, as opposed to threads which the OS can yank from under you at any time hecks: (unless in a critical section etc etc) Hawk777: coroutine.resume() runs a coroutine, but blocks the caller, because it runs the coroutine in the same OS thread as the caller lmat: VanessaE: My daughter had fake grass stairs (lots of them) and I did some upgrading...did they get removed? lmat: Is there a way to make real grass stairs by chance? VanessaE: I don't recall doing anything that would affect that. lmat: Hmmm, her crafting guide shows fake grass stairs still...but there are a bunch of UNKNOWN NODEs around her house. lmat: Maybe she had made fake grass stairs from a different mod that removed them...or something! 11J​onathon: do you have worldedit installed? 11J​onathon: if so //i and punch the unknowns 11J​onathon: to get names 11J​onathon: //i off when your done lmat: oh wow! There's "Dirt with Grass" now!? lmat: But no default:dirt stairs with grass lmat: hmm lmat: VanessaE: Ah, I see what she made: stairs:stair_fakegrass Do you know about that block? lmat: NOT building_blocks:stair_fakegrass . VanessaE: I don't remember what mod provides that, but might be moreblocks? lmat: grep stair_fakegrass . -r; in moreblock doesn't show it. 11J​onathon: building blocks from home decor modpack lmat: grep stair_fakegrass . -r; doesn't return anything in any of the mods I have. ... is there an easy way to convert all her stairs:stair_fakegrass to building_blocks:stair_fakegrass? Or will she just have to get it done? lmat: Jonathon: thank you 11J​onathon: give me a sec and i can give you a source on it lmat: Jonathon: https://imgur.com/bEI3Nhx.png 11J​onathon: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/homedecor_modpack/-/blob/master/building_blocks/node_stairs.lua#L88 11J​onathon: seems you have it installed 11J​onathon: perhaps its not enabled for some reason in world.mt? lmat: Could be! VanessaE: sorry, guess I forgot about it 11J​onathon: i only know that block because i use it alot 😛 lmat: Jonathon I have building_blocks enabled. 11J​onathon: do you have worledit? 11J​onathon: i suggest checking the unknowns lmat: Jonathon But you're pointing out building_blocks:fakegrass. What my daughter has is a bunch of stairs:stair_fakegrass. 11J​onathon: hmm, you could use moreblocks aliasing 11J​onathon: to alias one to the other lmat: Jonathon Oh, you were talking to me earlier when you said "do you have worldedit installed?" :-D I just press f5 and point at it to tell me what it is. 11J​onathon: ah, sometimes that doesn't always work for m with unknowns lmat: I have moreblocks installed, but I don't understand how I can use moreblocks to create an alias. 11J​onathon: but i have no idea what stairs:stair_fakegrass is from 11J​onathon: moreblocks doesn't document that 11J​onathon: sec lmat: I did add asphaltstairs and concretestairs recently...hopefully they didn't bork my stairs... lmat: Jonathon: I mean, I can just edit some file (aliases.lua in building_blocks seems fine) and add minetest.register_alias("stair_fakegrass", "stairs:stair_fakegrass") maybe? lmat: What I would like to do is actually convert any "stairs:stair_fakegrass" into "building_blocks:stair_fakegrass" :-) lmat: Rather than having to alias them each time. 11J​onathon: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/blob/master/stairsplus/stairs.lua 11J​onathon: moreblocks allows you to alias all at one time lmat: Oh wow 11J​onathon: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/blob/master/stairsplus/stairs.lua#L22-L27 to be exact lmat: Oh yeah there are some stair_inner_fakegrass... lmat: Jonathon: But I'll have to leave the alias there forever (or until she destroys her stairs), right? 11J​onathon: correct * lmat: sigh 11J​onathon: you could write a lbm to convert them 11J​onathon: but thats forever to unless you load the whole map lmat: Jonathon In that case I would just need to visit the nodes about which I care? 11J​onathon: yes lmat: I added the alias. They're still Unknown Node, but now when I point at them, it doesn't say what they are. 11J​onathon: hmm, wierd lmat: Do you happen to know how to write a lbm off the top of your head? :-D 11J​onathon: https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_lbm lmat: Thanks 11J​onathon: or just search up in your lua_api.txt 11J​onathon: in /docs lmat: Dude...if I botch this somehow, the whole map could be ruined, right? lmat: https://imgur.com/MRHX7dU.png Here is my lbm (doesn't touch the inner stairs) 11J​onathon: aside from the fact modname needs to be your actually modname 11J​onathon: you could do a test world lmat: Okay. I need to step away, but later I'll want to know how to back up my world in case I destroy it :-D lmat: I'm guessing I need to save map.sqlite? 11J​onathon: make sure the server is off, and copy the whole world file lmat: select count(*) from blocks; shows 1890257. That's a lot... lmat: Jonathon: okay. lmat: Heading out, but I'll be back eventually \0/ 11J​onathon: cya 11J​onathon: probably could copy map.sqlite into another world folder and test on that if you add a world.mt into it lmat: Jonathon: Thanks for the hint! lmat: The marble stairs are also Unknown Node now. :'( MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement mapblock camera offset correctly (#10702) 136d7067f https://git.io/JInwR (152020-12-05T23:03:40Z) hisforever: HiI'm puzzled with whitch direction my grinder and furance has to be to produce? daiNoZord: On the other hand if i had a Tom then he could potentially appear between "levels" and streamline players progression. Not 100% that would suit gameplay tho daiNoZord: Actually I think using that kind of mob is fine but wouldn't work in this case * iamweasel: listening to http://tehightime.net/media/cbl-digital-child.mp3 rubenwardy: please don't do that daiNoZord: me? rubenwardy: no, iamweasel iamweasel: sorry, i'll stop MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix certain connected nodeboxes crashing when falling 13ab9f9ce https://git.io/JIOax (152020-12-04T10:27:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix certain connected nodeboxes crashing when falling 13ecd4f45 https://git.io/JIOVq (152020-12-04T10:28:45Z) Leoneof: Hi, no texts in main menu on Windows 10, like this one: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19662 Leoneof: how to fix it? sfan5: whats your language setting? sfan5: in any case you can try deleting the language files: the entire "po" folder Leoneof: sfan5: i renamed "local" folder, it's working now, thanks specing: Is there a way to increase chat console size to >10 lines? specing: changing 10 to 20 in core::rect chat_size(10, chat_y, doesen't help 12W​arr1024: Maybe it's fixed to a certain max percentage of the screen size? I'd try lowering the font size and see if that makes a difference ... if so, that gives you a direction to investigate... Leoneof: :) specing: Well, it's about 1/4 of my screen specing: I'd like it to be 3/4 specing: If I open chat, I want to look at chat 12W​arr1024: Yeah, I can agree with you on that. I want any UI element to be as large as I configure it to be, and there shouldn't be some arbitrary limit unless there's some practical reason behind it... celeron55: specing: do you realize the console has two modes, the T mode and the F10 mode specing: aaaaaah specing: this is much better, thank you Krock: also "." and "/" lmat: How do I figure out how to break chainlink fence? I see the code with its craft recipe, etc., but where is it set how to break the thing? lmat: Using hand doesn't break, using chainlink fence doesn't break, using pickaxe doesn't break. Krock: lmat: which mod? lmat: Krock: streets. Krock: !mod streets MinetestBot: Krock: StreetsMod create modern cities by webdesigner97 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2984 - https://github.com/minetest-streets/streets Krock: checking lmat: https://github.com/minetest-streets/streets/blob/master/streets_accessories/init.lua#L39 Krock: groups = { snappy = 1, wall = 1 }, Krock: so you need a tool which has this group lmat: Krock: Ah, so that's going to tell me... so... tell me lmat: :-D Krock: dude wait Krock: swords lmat: Krock: Hmm, I Thought "groups" means that chainlink fence *IS* a "snappy" and a "wall". I guess it does mean that and you're saying I need a tool that destroys "snappy"s and "wall"s, right? lmat: swords, sweet. Krock: yes Krock: no lmat: A little unconventional on a department of transportation job site, but whatever. Krock: either snappy or wall lmat: Either, okay. Krock: chop chop chop with the sword. good training to become a slayer lmat: lol lmat: Unfortunately, it's not working :( Krock: oh no that's horrible lmat: But on the up side, I feel like I'm nearly a slayer already :-D lmat: needed a better sword. It's cool now. Krock: bronze sword, steel sword Krock: mese or diamond lmat: sweel worked. lmat: yeah. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Krock: protip: you can also chop glass faster using swords Krock: or plants lmat: Oh, cool! lmat: I was just using my hand on the plants. I'll go create a mese sword now. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Oblomov -> 03minetest/minetest: Cross-reference the node level manipulation functions (#10633) 1308c9d1a https://git.io/JIsvY (152020-12-04T19:16:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix MSAA stripes (#9247) 13e73c5d4 https://git.io/JIsvO (152020-12-04T19:16:12Z) lmat: Oh crap, just realized that streets mod is supplanted by cheapi's Streets+Infrastructure fork :-o lmat: !mod roads MinetestBot: lmat: lower Crossroads [lowercrossroads] by Deadlock - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19036 - https://github.com/Distributed-DeadLock/lowercrossroads lmat: hmm... https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13904 speaks of github.com/cheapie/roads but I don't see that. lmat: cheapie: Any ideas where I can find roads git repo? lmat: cheapie: Found this one: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/roads/ lmat: cheapie: I see lots of compliments of your "inside-traffic-controller-cabinet". It looks really good...probably much better than real life :-D Yours looks like a typical industrial PLC-laden cabinet...almost as if you have experience with electronics... /me looks in ##electronics lmat: cheapie: asphalt requires sand, gravel, and tar to make. Do you mind changing "sand" to "group:sand"? lmat: (my silver sand didn't work) lmat: Wow, concrete (from basic materials) is really hard to make...is there another concrete? cheshire_cat: probably there is, lmat, but if you wanted to poke the mod code, changing a recipe is usually pretty easy lmat: Also, making wet cement requires dirt, dark gray, and water. VanessaE (I think this is yours) would you change it to group:dirt? Savannah dirt should work for this, no? cheshire_cat: another alternative comes to mind, if you have technic, i've seen various cement-making machines, they are quite cool ) cheshire_cat: and pipeworks, i guess cheshire_cat: and mesecons, heh, the holy trinity VanessaE: lmat: that's in basic_materials I believe. pull requests welcome :) VanessaE: (even for one line I like to make sure bla-- ahem, credit passes along cleanly) lmat: VanessaE: Okay. I'm very interested in clean commit histories. I'm a software developer by trade ;-) lmat: cheshire_cat: Machines, ehe? wow. I have mesecons, but I fail to see the connection. calcul0n_: you don't need technic for cement, just a bunch of pipes, a node breaker to get water buckets and an autocrafter calcul0n_: ie mesecons + pipeworks cheshire_cat: ^^^ VanessaE: lmat: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/basic_materials lmat: VanessaE: All over it. VanessaE: ew * VanessaE: wipes lmat off lmat: calcul0n_: :-o VanessaE: ;) cheshire_cat: i've seen calcul0n_'s machine, it's awesome ) and i've seen at least one other very different design, can't remember where * cheshire_cat: skedaddles VanessaE: lmat: but I suggest you test under dreambuilder, just to make sure group:dirt won't create nonsensical combos VanessaE: (since there will surely be a fair number of dirt-like items in that group) lmat: Yeah. Soni: can we have like, javascript/wasm? Soni: and AGPLv3 ofc cheapie: lmat: I've seen inside real traffic signal controller cabinets, yes :P cheapie: As far as the asphalt crafting goes... nobody seems to be able to tell me what "silver sand" even *is*, but if someone can then... maybe. Soni: also can we get an apology from VanessaE yet? VanessaE: ? Soni: VanessaE: "drooling morons" VanessaE: eh, I don't even remember what that's about. Soni: uh you threw that ableist slur at it when we were talking about our project. it was a few years ago. VanessaE: *shrug* VanessaE: 19:59 VanessaE exactly my point. don't give the drooling morons out there an "in". coding should be left to people who are willing to *learn* VanessaE: had to look through the online logs for that. VanessaE: re-reading the surrounding context, I have nothing to apologize for. Soni: well then maybe read this https://ollibean.com/intelligence-is-an-ableist-concept/ * VanessaE: shrugs, walks away Soni: ugh specing: Is there a construct in minetest lua that would be like assert, but instead of raising an exception it'd return from function? specing: I have a lot of code of the form if cond then print("bla"); return X; end specing: It'd also be nice if the print call could be replaced by some log function SX: specing possible with coroutines at least but not sure if it is that good idea really... SX: and pcall of course if you want to catch exceptions thrown by assertions but again gets bit complicated to make difference between assert and other faults SX: but yeah, can do something like return_if(1 < 2, "Omg 1 is still less than 2") dgsomerton: happy to report, all is working. I managed to isolate the server that was blocking me, sent the ticket in and a few minutes later it was unblocked.. Thanks for the help. sfan5: that's great Wuzzy: What is the difference between /clearobjects quick and /clearobjects full? Wuzzy: (apart from speed, obviously) Wuzzy: Or to put it in a different way: What makes /clearobjects quick "quick"? 09w​war: I guess (not sure) /clearobjects quick 1-Clears objects in a not very big place. Or, 2-Do not clear all kinds of objects. celeron55: Wuzzy: full goes through every generated block, quick just deletes objects from whatever blocks are loaded Wuzzy: ok Wuzzy: hmmm i just found a description in lua_api.txt... Wuzzy: "Clear objects immediately in loaded mapblocks, clear objects in unloaded mapblocks only when the mapblocks are next activated." Wuzzy: I don't understand the 2nd part of that sentence. Wuzzy: "only when the mapblock are next activated"? What does "next activated" mean here? celeron55: i have no idea what that means celeron55: i don't think anything special happens in either mode 11J​onathon: I know someone who did clearobjects full on a server, locked it up for a hour? At least the way it was explained to me is clearobjects just removes objects in loaded areas, while clearobjects full goes through the whole map and removes them sfan5: Wuzzy: the engine stores a timestamp of when clearobjects was last run somewhere sfan5: then when a new block is loaded and it's older than the clearobjects timestamp, all objects are removed Wuzzy: huh? Wuzzy: so a /clearobjects quick can affect objects long after I executed it? sfan5: n? sfan5: no? Wuzzy: hmm Wuzzy: do you mean, when a new block is loaded *during* the execution of /clearobjects quick? sfan5: any time after Wuzzy: hmmm sfan5: it will delay object clearing to when a block is next loaded, while /clearobjects full literally goes and loads each block to remove the objects and save it again sfan5: that's it Wuzzy: ok so I do /clearobjects quick, a few objects die, then after 1 hour a player moves to a new mapblock, loading it. Wuzzy: and all objects in this NEW loaded mapblocks die as well? sfan5: how is the mapblock "new"? Wuzzy: newly loaded* sfan5: yes Wuzzy: bad language, sorry Wuzzy: wow, ok. Wuzzy: interesting. sfan5: even more simplified: it will mark all blocks as needing their objects cleared celeron55: where is the clearobjects timestamp stored sfan5: env_meta.txt celeron55: ok now i see where that happens celeron55: so due to this it barely makes sense to ever run full clearobjects as this should be completely transparent to any gameplay or server processing Wuzzy: yeah, i also see now that /clearobjects full doesnt really make much sense anymore Wuzzy: slightly related question: How do I "get" an object in an area that is not loaded (or I have not checked if its loaded)? sfan5: you don't Wuzzy: 🙁 Wuzzy: i suppose the only way to be sure is to emerge first? Wuzzy: when the emerge finishes, can i be sure that all objects have appeared at this time? sfan5: are objects active in forceloaded blocks? dunno Wuzzy: not forceloaded. minetest.emerge_area sfan5: (because just emerging a block will not activate the objects) Wuzzy: oh jeez Wuzzy: objects are really tricky to deal with in lua calcul0n_: i played a bit with forceload, it looks like entities stay active there calcul0n_: and yes, emerge is probably not enough 09w​war: I suggest (somehow) make the /clearobjects quick do not clear tamed mobs.. sfan5: Wuzzy: I wouldn't mind if your PR removed /clearobjects full entirely Wuzzy: idk. maybe there is a weird fringe reason for people to use /clearobjects full. my PR was only about usability anyway, soo. not removing any features in this pr. celeron55: well if you want to clean up a map for sharing celeron55: or archiving or something sfan5: I wrote a python script that can recompress a map (saving up to 30% or something) and clear objects/meta/whatever months ago but haven't gotten around to releasing it Wuzzy: sfan5: BleachBit is also capable of compressing maps if they are in SQLite format sfan5: that's just sqlite's VACCUM Wuzzy: haha @greeter has fun with IPv6 tango_: does minetest support gas? tango_: like liquids, but spreads out in all directions big_caballito[m]: tested, my computer is on fire sfan5: there is no engine support for that big_caballito[m]: *as in fuel, lol tango_: sfan5: would core be interested in an impl? * tango_: plans on implementing grisou / firedamp sfan5: my personal opinion is "probably not" sfan5: also there is another issue to be solved before that: currently almost all places check for == air, but if other non-air nodes are going to be widespread that would have to be changed to check drawtype == airlike sfan5: or maybe with a group sfan5: (so that you can actually placed nodes / etc into places that aren't air but another gas) tango_: ah good point calcul0n_: the musttest game has something like this if you're interested calcul0n_: gas pockets which can spread when you mine and poison you tango_: calcul0n_: I was more interested in having it explode if you place a torch in the area tango_: but this would conflict with sfan5' remark tango_: btw mtg needs better textures, I have troubles telling some ores apart, sometimes even seeing them because I'm colorblind tango_: can nodes be made to sparkle if they are illuminated? sfan5: it wouldn't be impossible for the mod to spawn glowing particles sfan5: but that's not the preferable solution daiNoZord: it's pertinent - does anyone play elite:dangerous? daiNoZord: I'm only interested in Elite's multi-faceted rank/status structure daiNoZord: I think my idea is less complicated than it sounds ( it sounds complicated in my head ) but i guess it's broken down into parts... tango_: huge dungeon and no chest tango_: impossible, right? daiNoZord: There is a cheap workaround to the first half of my conundrum and that is to guage a monster as 10 blocks and then Warriors and Workers are the same faction and I can use a mod already in existence... daiNoZord: tango - any experience with self-replenishing chests? daiNoZord: But that is a tacky solution tango_: daiNoZord: nop daiNoZord: fair enough :) daiNoZord: 2nd part of conundrum - progress halted upon a level being attained, pending a challenge set by a senior (not admin necessarily) then - Level 2! or 3 or 4 or..... daiNoZord: I like the idea of seperate factions tho. Players should be able to join/rejoin/leave with their faction with their achievements intact daiNoZord: But only if they're allied else the rank/status structure would get confusing - hence "leave" 05e​xe_virus: Why go java? Hawk777: Because regular Minetest in C++ is too fast, clearly. * SoylentCow: listening to http://tehightime.net/media/bird-and-miles-scrapple-from-the-apple.mp3 * SoylentCow: rocking to http://tehightime.net/media/louis-jingle-bells.mp3 specing: imagine Minetest being too fast... SoylentCow: imagine? i live it! 9MOOOOOOOO!!!!! SoylentCow: no joking, performance is amazing on my gtx (not so much on recent intel uhd :'( ) 05e​xe_virus: Yeah I'm with soylent, minetest has amazing performance, doesn't mean it can't get better Soni: so you can use a generic java mod loader with the client, ofc. FrostRanger[m]: why would one want to do that? FrostRanger[m]: minetest already has built in modding support * iamweasel: listening to http://tehightime.net/media/keith-jarrett-no-moon-at-all.mp3 11J​onathon: wonders whats up with people and music here no 11J​onathon: *now Copenhagen_Bram: Does mcimport still work, or does it need maintenance? pallsld: CopenHagen_Bram: lol Im using mcimport on the Avatar 1.3 world that was posted a few months ago on the Mincraft sub. Its been at it for the last 2 hours and has 36 more to go (and counting up). It is 25.8 GB tho pallsld: Processed 250920 / 6270016 chunks, ETA 36:20:58 h:m:s pallsld: Processed 861850 / 6270016 chunks, ETA 32:25:47 h:m:s pallsld: c'mooooooooon rubenwardy: Stallman recommends using Minetest: https://www.stallman.org/archives/2020-sep-dec.html#1_December_2020_(Minecraft) sfan5: huh 08f​reshreplicant: Haha, nice. I love the way he calls singleplayer 'solitaire'. sfan5: not surprising however alket: nice dgsomerton: hi, i am dave.. i just came today for the first time dgsomerton: i have been running a server on my local pc for a while dgsomerton: it is public and announced on the list dgsomerton: great, except for the constant IP changes dgsomerton: so i got myself a VPS in the area dgsomerton: and thought to use that instead dgsomerton: the server i have been running on my local pc has the operating environment in a podman container dgsomerton: the data files are onthe host dgsomerton: this eliminates the OS differences, and allows me to change the files as i recompile from the git repo dgsomerton: but.. the VPS never makes it to the announce server.. everything else works fine.. if you know the IP and port dgsomerton: so, i made a python http server on my local pc, and pointer the VPS at it sfan5: http? dgsomerton: no problem, http post received and replied sfan5: oh dgsomerton: so i am bit mystified sfan5: do you have a server_address configured? does the host have IPv6? dgsomerton: i did notice in the tcpdump trace from the local pc that after the initial announce post, a UDP packet was sent from the the announce server dgsomerton: this packet is never seen at the VPS dgsomerton: hmm, so a udp block somewhere... traceroute -U on pirt 30000 to the VPS from my local pc says ok, dgsomerton: i modified my python http server to send the udp packet after the announce, no problem.. dgsomerton: anyway.. thats my story dgsomerton: you can see bothe my servers.. local pc at 106.69.53.99 port 30k and 203.33.252.100 also port 30k for the vps dgsomerton: the local pc is running out of a podman container.. i figured that if anyone broke out, they would be in the podman jail celeron55: rubenwardy: interesting, altough obvious dgsomerton: we all use emacs here i hope dgsomerton: i am a vim man myself sfan5: !up 203.33.252.100 MinetestBot: 203.33.252.100:30000 seems to be down dgsomerton: sfan5: the server address is configured to the IP of the vps 203.33.252.100, ipv6 is disabled although the vps supports it and i could enable it. dgsomerton: interesting.. i can coonect.. must be because i have connections already on the ssh terminals dgsomerton: great.. at least that gives me a second data point sfan5: sounds like firewall then dgsomerton: dgs@dgsoft ~]$ traceroute 106.69.53.99 dgsomerton: traceroute to 106.69.53.99 (106.69.53.99), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets dgsomerton: 1 gw1.datawest.com.au (203.33.252.1) 0.522 ms 0.421 ms 0.347 ms dgsomerton: 2 deathstar.netway.io (203.33.253.1) 1.735 ms 1.987 ms 2.141 ms dgsomerton: 3 * * * dgsomerton: 4 as4739.wa.ix.asn.au (198.32.212.22) 2.108 ms 2.020 ms 1.975 ms dgsomerton: 5 * * * dgsomerton: 6 203-219-57-227.tpgi.com.au (203.219.57.227) 2.696 ms 2.838 ms 203-219-57-163.tpgi.com.au (203.219.57.163) 2.741 ms dgsomerton: 7 106-69-53-99.dyn.iinet.net.au (106.69.53.99) 7.257 ms 7.223 ms 7.556 ms dgsomerton: 8 106-69-53-99.dyn.iinet.net.au (106.69.53.99) 11.920 ms 17.336 ms 19.370 ms dgsomerton: traceroute to 203.33.252.100 (203.33.252.100), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets dgsomerton: 1 _gateway (10.1.1.1) 3.219 ms 3.160 ms 3.136 ms dgsomerton: 2 per-apt-stg-bras35-lo1.tpgi.com.au (203.219.198.94) 8.924 ms 8.901 ms 8.880 ms dgsomerton: 3 per-apt-wgw1-be200.tpgi.com.au (203.219.57.195) 14.026 ms 14.033 ms 14.013 ms dgsomerton: 4 as7545.pstmabrdr11.aapt.net.au (203.219.57.38) 14.011 ms 14.760 ms 14.773 ms dgsomerton: 5 203.8.179.14 (203.8.179.14) 14.719 ms 14.730 ms 15.385 ms dgsomerton: 6 59.154.142.0 (59.154.142.0) 14.690 ms 59.154.142.2 (59.154.142.2) 8.588 ms 59.154.18.116 (59.154.18.116) 8.613 ms dgsomerton: 7 61.88.8.42 (61.88.8.42) 19.001 ms 9.710 ms 9.661 ms dgsomerton: 8 ip-110.118.254.124.vocus.net.au (124.254.118.110) 10.055 ms 10.046 ms 10.814 ms dgsomerton: 9 203.33.253.181 (203.33.253.181) 10.760 ms 10.739 ms 10.752 ms dgsomerton: 10 203.33.252.100 (203.33.252.100) 12.422 ms 12.397 ms 12.375 ms dgsomerton: my local pc is nat'ed so the gateway is at 10.1.1.1 dgsomerton: that 198 address looks suspicious dgsomerton: but probably just a nat dgsomerton: you can get to the 106.69.53.99 i expect sfan5: !up 106.69.53.99 MinetestBot: 106.69.53.99:30000 is up (336ms) dgsomerton: thanks for the info.. i will work on it tomorrow (it is late in the evening here) and come back later to report dgsomerton: if someone has time, can they point a browser to: http://203.33.252.100:8080 an page with hello world should be returned.. sfan5: works dgsomerton: great thanks.. dgsomerton: replies from: dgsomerton: 82.101.209.209 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:54:16] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 76.71.240.150 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:54:16] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 165.22.125.197 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:54:16] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 35.227.62.178 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:54:16] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 176.126.240.158 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:54:18] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 106.69.53.99 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:54:25] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 106.69.53.99 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:54:25] "GET /favicon.ico HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 217.249.118.148 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:55:16] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: 217.249.118.148 - - [02/Dec/2020 19:55:16] "GET /favicon.ico HTTP/1.1" 200 - dgsomerton: time for me to go.. bye tango_: please use sprunge for these things next time fattywompus: So on a headles linux server the worlds are in /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds... can I copy a world folders from a regular windows install on my other PC into that folder and just point the minetest.config line "map-dir =" to which world I want to launch? sfan5: yes sfan5: except "map-dir" doesn't work in minetest.conf hecks: does anyone have any idea how minetest determines the "games" directory on unix? hecks: it's /usr/local/share/minetest/games but I checked and it's not hardcoded hecks: I'd like to know why it's looking there and how to override this sfan5: sounds like $path_share/games sfan5: (see porting.cpp for path_share detection) hecks: it looks like on openbsd it would defer to a #define STATIC_SHAREDIR hecks: I guess the more important question is, does $MINETEST_SUBGAME_PATH override this? hecks: subgames.cpp hints at this but it's not documented hecks: content/subgames.cpp:60 sfan5: it should search there first from the looks of it hecks: it doesn't seem to work that way big_caballito[m]: what makes you say that? big_caballito[m]: what did you do hecks: well I made a dummy games folder, made a dummy game in it, set the env var, started the server with the dummy as --gameid big_caballito[m]: did setting it not work or summ? big_caballito[m]: ok big_caballito[m]: hmm hecks: and by the looks of it, this code path isn't actually used by the server hecks: only by the main menu lua sfan5: how would that work then I wonder hecks: let's see what --gameid actually does sfan5: maybe it doesn't and nobody ever tested hecks: so yeah, chances are you can make a game visible in the menu but not actually startable hecks: okay, no, hang on, --gameid does use this code hecks: well this is complicated, first it looks in the env, tries name and name_game hecks: then it tries in path_user/games/ and finally path_share/games/ hecks: I guess this sort of solves my per user override problem, but why doesn't the env just work? hecks: oh, rats, I forgot to export the var hecks: it does work big_caballito[m]: good to know lol daiNoZord: Is anybody using either the "Warps" or "Simple_Warp" mod on MT 5.3? Sorry if it's a noob qn - I just want to know if I'm messing up or if they're no longer compatible. If I know that I can figure the rest out. Thx :) fattywompus: so I'm reading to set up a custom config for each world in /etc/minetest/pvp.conf then launch it with "systemctl start minetest-server@pvp.service"... would "pvp" in this example be the world name? And if "map-dir"doesn't work, how then to tell the custom config which world it relates to? sfan5: the service file typically also sets the --map-dir (or --world) in the command line daiNoZord: I'll figure it out - I usually do. Anyway - why is it necessary for one mod to have mod sec turned off so it can write to an external file when others seem to write externally with mod sec enabled? sfan5: you should never need to disable mod security entirely sfan5: if a mod can't manage what others can it's either badly written or you forgot to allow the mod to do it daiNoZord: as it doesn't seem to work (well one seems based on the other) it's hard to tell - I was hoping to use them as a study but like you say - i think they may have worked before but are ultimately poorly written daiNoZord: simple_warp/singleplayer.conf not allowed with mod security on. daiNoZord: stack traceback: etc etc... rubenwardy: daiNoZord: you should be able to read from any mod, you just can't write to another mod's folder, or write after load time rubenwardy: you can get a handle to the file during load time and write after rubenwardy: using flush and seek to do the writing rubenwardy: or you can write to the world folder at anytime daiNoZord: hey rubenwardy - they''re not my mods - in fact they don't even seem to work. Maybe they once did. I just thought they may make a useful study but one crashes if mod sec is enabled. I know plenty mods write to .cfg or.txt files or whatever so it is a peculiar thing. rubenwardy: that mod is quite old, it's probably from before mod security daiNoZord: Aha... that could be a thing. Sorta crossed my mind that things mighta tightened up as MT evolved... rubenwardy: it is also badly written I'd say rubenwardy: you could try replacing simple_warp.mod_path with world_path in https://github.com/indriApollo/simple_warp/blob/master/functions.lua rubenwardy: and then adding local world_path = minetest.get_worldpath() to the top of the file rubenwardy: not sure what warps are, but you may be interested in TravelNet or Warp Potions rubenwardy: !mod [travelnet] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: travelnet teleporters/bookmarks [travelnet] by Sokomine - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4877 - https://github.com/Sokomine/travelnet rubenwardy: !mod [warp_potions] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Warp Potions [warp_potions] by Shara - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18630 - https://github.com/Ezhh/warp_potions rubenwardy: both of these are in ContentD rubenwardy: +B daiNoZord: Thanks I got it to not crash on /setwarp so that's great. I think i missed one tho to get it to work but I'll figure that out in a bit. I'm making a note of travelnet and warp_potions too. Thanks again! daiNoZord: Ideally I'll get my head around the mechanics of this sort of thing to come up with my own implementation... once I've figured out where I'm going... Noideawhatmedoin: When it comes to attempting things like LOD, random question, how practical would it be to generate a mesh w/ textures based off a node (comparable to a minecraft chunk) and essetially unload the real node until it's close enough that collision is likely? SoylentCow: minetest forum was slow earlier during the day, now down? SoylentCow: that thing must be huuuuuuuge Emerald2: When isn't it slow or down? XD 11J​onathon: ^ this SoylentCow: ok ok i see i stumbled into a choir chamber... 9MOOOOOOO!!!!!!! SoylentCow: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway SoylentCow: i resubmitted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest let's all cross our fingers (cross them!) luk3yx: Are there enough sources on that draft? SoylentCow: we gonna see, right? there are 2 real good ones, imho SoylentCow: from what i understood, the problem was the presense of bad sources, not the absence of good ones SoylentCow: though i added the good ones just in case, too luk3yx: > A player controls a 3D character known as Sam, which is a recursive acronym for "Sam ain't Minecraft" luk3yx: Where did that originate from? I'm mostly curious but it may help to mention it SoylentCow: it can be referenced very easily, but it would not be hi fi reference, and we can't have any, for procedural reasons SoylentCow: in fact you can find a ref for that and every single fact in history, i removed them all in order to get over the procedural hurdle of meeting the notability review SoylentCow: every single mentioned fact is referenced in edit history, i mean SoylentCow: but to answer your question, luk3yx, i had it from https://wiki.minetest.net/Player SoylentCow: anyway, most importantly, this article can't get out of draft NOT because "citation needed", but because it had many poor refs and no real good ones, and these are very different issues rubenwardy: lol, there's no where near enough sources - there's none for gameplay rubenwardy: again, you've also removed all the good sources luk3yx: How does the German Wikipedia page get away with it? luk3yx: Could that page be translated/copied? rubenwardy: they have less strict editors rubenwardy: making the article worse by removing good citations doesn't make it better. Removing first-party citations is good - they're unreliable rubenwardy: also remove uncited content - base content on reliable citations, not on your agenda rubenwardy: you quote raw stats with no citations?! rubenwardy: this article was better months ago Follpvosten[m]: Wuzzy: I'd like to send a patch for mineclone which exposes a kind of "dieplayer event to string" API from mcl_death_messages. I'd basically just move most of the on_dieplayer event handler and expose it like `mcl_death_messages.format(player, reason)` which returns a string (while of course also using that function internally to send death messages to chat). I need this for some bridges to other chat systems I'm Follpvosten[m]: working on, where I'd like to also send over death messages. Asking here first because I'd like to know if that's likely for inclusion, and also what you'd like the public API to look like (`.format()` sounds pretty generic, could also be `.death_to_message()` or similar) rubenwardy: btw #mineclone2 Follpvosten[m]: Oh thanks. Only read the start of the contributing document, not the very end lol. fattywompus: Hello, whats the best way to get (or build) the most recent "stable" version like 5.3 or whatever onto an ubuntu server without using snap? I looked at cloning git and building it but github seems to suggest that would end up being the "development test" version celeron55: well that's exactly what you want to do celeron55: then you just download a non-test game into the games directory sfan5: do you only need the server version? sfan5: if so I can suggest this guide https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=311160#p311160 fattywompus: Pardon my confusion but only having experienced the windows client (and server launched from that) version 5.2 for example is a seperate entity from 5.3... you're saying if I build the latest dev test version i can then download 5.3 with the dev version? And not need to use snap or build 5.3? Follpvosten[m]: Note that there's also a ppa: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable Follpvosten[m]: If I do see this right, that would be a non-snap way to get the latest version on Ubuntu. Follpvosten[m]: On Debian I just use backports. fattywompus: ah ok a ppa simplifies things quite a bit. I'm also going to go read that post sfan5 linked before I proceed. Thanks sfan5: "devtest" is the game shipped with the engine by default, what you probably want is "mintest_game" or maybe mineclone2 sfan5: that's separate from installing the engine itself 11F​leckenstein: Yes, in creative mode xD fattywompus: so with that script that sfan5 linked when it asks for version I can just enter "5.3.0" and I'm all set? Or do I need to phrase it like "stable-5.3.0"? sfan5: just 5.3.0 fattywompus: so does the portable version created from the script that sfan5 linked create the Debian-minetest user where it can be controlled with systemctl? sfan5: no sfan5: only the debian package does that sfan5: you can however manually create the user and use the same .service file fattywompus: and all the log and config and whatnot will stay in my home directory also? Or will it still write stuff to /etc and var/? sfan5: the portable setup will write stuff to the same folder you extract it from SoylentCow: i know, rubenwardy, it looks like i removed a lot of sources, but in fact the review takes care of all major aspects of gameplay, while the interview provides all kinds of info about both gameplay & development SoylentCow: i was specifically advised to get rid of game wiki refs and things of that nature; i understand the re-review process for notability is rather rigid, and it's an auto-fail if low quality refs pop out SoylentCow: please do not be lulled into thinking i am enjoying this, i had to take a multi-month break after the last rejection just to calm thefuck down SoylentCow: lol j/k deep inside i am totally enjoying solving this kafkaesque labyrinth :D specing: Lol specing: In a few years Veloren will probably take over all of minetest's playerbase 08a​ppguru: Veloren is indeed well made Follpvosten[m]: But veloren is very different, isn't it? As in, it's based around being a cubeworld-like voxel RPG Follpvosten[m]: I think they have a very different target audience than Minetest 08a​ppguru: Currently yes Calinou: the name "Veloren" reminds me a lot of Valorant. :P 08a​ppguru: Sounds like a rant Calinou: a valuable rant celeron55: btw, i agree with rubenwardy that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest is just bad now, it's full of text based on nothing at all, and some of such text is just plain wrong celeron55: it would be completely appropriate for the wikipedia staff to not approve it celeron55: and i trust them to do so as long as it's bad celeron55: the only thing i can trust wikipedia in is that they won't approve Minetest's article until it's actually good celeron55: so if you think it should exist, then get your act together and write it properly. i can't do that for you celeron55: just delete everything, then list good sources, then write based on the good sources 08a​ppguru: ... celeron55: and write like you've never heard of MT before 08a​ppguru: finding "good sources" for everything is tedious 08a​ppguru: the source code is source enough rubenwardy: Then don't make an article on wikipedia celeron55: if there's no source, then you don't write about it rubenwardy: If you can't find enough sources to write an article on wikipedia, then Minetest isn't notable enough rubenwardy: Minetest is notable enough, you just need to write much less 08a​ppguru: Or Wikipedia is just not made for presenting video games celeron55: i'm 50% certain you can assemble a list of sources for an MT article and write the article. it won't be a long one celeron55: wikipedia isn't made for persenting anything celeron55: presenting* luk3yx: Wouldn't it be rejected if it was too short? celeron55: well that's the other 50% SoylentCow: celeron55: if "citation needed" becomes an issue, i will trim the article SoylentCow: i am super-open to whatever rewrites, i did OK job on text, i suppose, but of course things can be improved SoylentCow: i do think it's rather aacurate, because i didn't make anything up, but rather used sources like minetest wiki and the codebase itself to justify every single fact/notion i put on there SoylentCow: but these sources fail the notability review and had to be removed for the article to be moved into mainspace SoylentCow: i have a very narrow objective here: get it approved into mainspace, and after that the standards of review will not be as stringent, and all of us can pitch in and improve what's already there SoylentCow: one thing i am tired of discussing is how "minetest" is not a "game", this semantic trifle is not relevant at all to my current task, but once the article is live, we can dive into that issue as well :D SoylentCow: rubenwardy: minetest is notable enough, there are very many notable sources to draw from, but unfortunately almost all of them are in different language SoylentCow: than english SoylentCow: but if need be (i ran this by officials in #wikipedia_help_en) we can use them in order to juice up the notability even more SoylentCow: sorry, you know what, i am not really here to argue with you people, just letting you know where i am in the process SoylentCow: if you wish, i won't bug you anymore with this topic, until we get it off the ground 09w​war: Isn't ""minetest"" an engine? 🤔 Vagabond[m]: I think it's a worthwhile effort, though perhaps a separate channel can be used for discussion? I have some feedback Vagabond[m]: For example: citations for the download numbers would probably be good celeron55: SoylentCow: well, how surprised are you if i tell you "the source code was published on GitHub on November 26, 2010" is wrong? celeron55: you did original research to write that text, and as a result it's wrong Krock: OMG celeron55: please just don't do that Krock: minetest.sln created on Nov 27 2010 celeron55: if you changed that to 27 it would still be wrong rubenwardy: it was hosted on your website then sourceforge to begin with, right? rubenwardy: or builds on your website and sourceforge rubenwardy: sourceforge was somewhere, the horror celeron55: no, still wrong rubenwardy: :O Krock: was it published earlier, but you removed the repo? Krock: because the sentence exclusively mentions GitHUb celeron55: it may be impossible to write that sentence correctly based on data available today Krock: hit&miss +/- a few days celeron55: but as a hint, i will say: celeron55: date of publication doesn't equal date of initial commit celeron55: current hosting of repository doesn't equal original hosting of repository celeron55: current source control tool doesn't equal original source control tool Krock: my source control in 2010 was basically copying files from source -> backup (1) (2) Copy of (2) celeron55: you probably can't get this right unless you literally were there back then, and personally i don't remember Krock: brb calling Doctor Who rubenwardy: https://tenor.com/view/delete-cybermen-dw-doctorwho-exterminate-gif-4902419 Krock: *metal noises* celeron55: i do remember, and this will make all that you all said sound ridiculous, that i published minetest's source code originally on bitbucket as a mercurial repository celeron55: it was converted at some point to be a git repository and moved to github celeron55: the date being, who knows celeron55: i don't remember whether the source was originally published on bitbucket or if i made a source package before that 12W​arr1024: If the bitbucket repo still exists they may have a history of push activity...? 12W​arr1024: It'd at least help you narrow stuff down, I gues. celeron55: bitbucket removed all their mercurial repositories a while ago celeron55: there's literally no trace of it Krock: 2014 according to the wayback machine. https://web.archive.org/web/20140907044527/https://github.com/minetest/minetest/ Krock: and that's off by a few years rubenwardy: there's a mention of GH in 2012: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/2012-11-02/ celeron55: well ok, i think i have a copy of the mercurial repository myself rubenwardy: the easiest thing to do is just not mention this celeron55: and irc logs will probably have all this information that i just said probably doesn't exist celeron55: (didn't even remember they go so far back) celeron55: anyway, as i said, stop writing things without sources Krock: rubenwardy: the final slash kills the link somehow celeron55: on wikipedia rubenwardy: oh weird rubenwardy: I removed the `text` Krock: wikipedia won't ever accept the English page anyway SoylentCow: celeron55: are you perttu? let's fix this thing :) there are some other statements there which are based on info from this very chan, we can lose them as well SoylentCow: in particular, i will get rid of nov 26 SoylentCow: and other stuff that is hard to verify and/or wrong Krock: he's an impostor! he secretly back-stabbed celer- err- perttu in 2012 to take over his role SoylentCow: sure sounds like it &_& SoylentCow: "The source code was published on GitHub in late 2010, and the license terms changed to GPLv2 soon after that." SoylentCow: shazam :D celeron55: ... celeron55: can i request you to find someone else to do this wikipedia thing? i don't know if it's incompetence or bad habits but you're doing it so wrong it's bad for us celeron55: sorry SoylentCow: no, i can't, the only reason i am doing this is because for many years (!) now no one else would SoylentCow: but i am totally gonna stop bother this channel over this celeron55: well ok, then i'll just say that you still got it wrong celeron55: MT wasn't published on github in 2010 rubenwardy: there have been other recent people working on this, it's just that dancing with wikipedia editors is painful SoylentCow: i'll ax this whole sentence right now, and i'll stop bugging you people SoylentCow: one last thing: all of yall please feel welcome to get in touch with me in private (or on wiki) with criticsms, suggestions, etc SoylentCow: i would like the final result to be factually accurate, well-written, and well-referenced, and i am not perfect at this, but i do try my best :D 11I​hrFussel: Why can't you simply TELL the year it was published instead of complaining about wrong years only? celeron55: because i don't have a source for it, and as such it's useless for wikipedia * SoylentCow: turns a new 4leaf and starts chewing on it thoughtfully SoylentCow: dang it, meant it to be 9green 11I​hrFussel: The original creator's mouth does not count as source? What? 12W​arr1024: I suspect they'd rather have a published source, i.e. that they directly verify, and link to. 11G​reenXenith: The Wikipedia page actually looked fine like a year ago, but it was knocked for notability because the sources weren't very reliable. Now the page is garbage and myself and the other major editor have given up trying on it. celeron55: GreenXenith: if you can be bothered, try to get the good one from the history or somewhere and save it somewhere to wait for better times SoylentCow: celeron55 is absolutely right: if we can get it approved at all, in any state at all, then your hands will be untied to re-introduce just about anything from before, or even do a near-full rewrite, and saving last good (your pov) state in your sandbox is a great idea specing: Does anyone have a patch that makes Minetest remember server/CSM/command history? specing: (and that would allow me to scroll up into it) * SoylentCow: listening to http://tehightime.net/media/marvin-gaye-t-plays-it-cool.mp3 Soni: idea: minetest + wasm2kotlin = minetest, java edition Noideawhatmedoin: I'm officially lost, after literally a week of research I still can't "render distance" in Minetest, please help. specing: - + Noideawhatmedoin: (I know about that, I mean how do I actually make the machine render more, even if I set it to 4000 and enable unlimited viewing distance. It still only renders around a radius of 400 or so) specing: Well specing: you probably don't have those blocks loaded specing: So, the question becomes "how do you force load 4000 blocks ahead and bring your machine to a crawl?" Noideawhatmedoin: Teach me the ways of the kernel panic inducing Noideawhatmedoin: (This is a total guess, but "overflows" seem to be a recurring theme in Minetest Bugs. Any chance it's that?) Noideawhatmedoin: (The render distance (despite relentless tweaking) seems to happen on both my cellphone and my main system.) Noideawhatmedoin: Welp... Noideawhatmedoin: How do you force load 4000 blocks ahead and bring your machine to a crawl? Noideawhatmedoin: (Not to mention I actually plan on getting a legit Desktop soon, so it would be nice so for when I decide to bring it "to a crawl"... Noideawhatmedoin: ) Noideawhatmedoin: Say I actually wanted to force Minetest to churn out more blocks to the screen at once, regardless of the performance implications, how would I go about doing this? 10J​ordach: what are the + and - buttons on your keyboard for? 10J​ordach: you can change viewing distance in game 10J​ordach: also, the camera "clips" or stops rendering things after a certain distance 05e​xe_virus: You can change the default load distance as well as the render distance, so your computer/server will start generating and sending you chunks well over 2000 nodes away Follpvosten[m]: Pretty sure you can force blocks to load with /emergeblocks Noideawhatmedoin: Doesn't emergeblocks just generate new blocks? Noideawhatmedoin: (Also using /emergeblocks doesn't really seem to do anything) Noideawhatmedoin: (At least with respect to render distance) Emerald2: Doesn't it just run mapgen again for the given area? Noideawhatmedoin: (My understanding is it tries to generate new blocks within the specified area (whether it's in a certain range or two specific points.) Noideawhatmedoin: After doing an emergeblocks, flying around does load in blocks (as expected), however nothing about the rate at which blocks appear hasn't really changed. 11I​hrFussel: No guys there IS a hardcoded render distance and no matter what you do, you cannot increase it beyond that without modifying the c++ code 11I​hrFussel: They were probably asking what they need to change to make it render even further...such questions would be better suited for dev (maybe they already asked there) celeron55: max_block_send_distance and max_block_generate_distance certainly have to be set appropriately, and maybe something else celeron55: you should probably pastebin your minetest.conf rubenwardy: There isn't a hardcoded render distance IhrFussel, you just need to increase the above settings 11I​hrFussel: I'm pretty sure someone in the forum once complained that no matter what they do they couldn't get it to render past 400 or so nodes...or maybe it was much more...but they basically tried all possible settings that are related celeron55: well there is some limit due to the z buffer settings you have to give to the camera celeron55: the shorter you make the z buffer range, the more accurate the z buffer will be, so there's reason to not set it stupidly far celeron55: altough it could be dynamically adjusted celeron55: (maybe it is? i don't remember) celeron55: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/camera.cpp#L625 Noideawhatmedoin: Greetings again, I didn't think I'd get the attention of the name at the top of the list. Anyway, there's actually two "minetest.confs" one on my server and then of course the one on the client system. celeron55: well that's some additional limit celeron55: looks like the viewing range setting is clamped to 400 nodes Noideawhatmedoin: (Should I post both?) celeron55: maybe celeron55: not sure if that's in nodes or in view units celeron55: m_cameranode->setFarValue() is given a dynamic value up to 2000 nodes so it's not the problem like i suspected celeron55: IhrFussel: try to adjust that line and see if it helps https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/camera.cpp#L637 celeron55: hmm wait no, that is in nodes celeron55: so it can't be the limiting factor celeron55: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=315589&sid=5ebc84cf8a07a0e2df41128c1506f5e3#p315589 celeron55: apparently block_send_optimize_distance and client_mapblock_limit have to be also adjusted celeron55: the system is veeery inefficient in transferring relevant blocks to the client at large ranges though celeron55: as there's no height limit celeron55: and it won't guess what to send celeron55: it used to do that, and that created weird voids in oceans and people didn't like it either celeron55: so it was removed Noideawhatmedoin: (Could it be an overflow bug, that seems to be a weird trend I noticed among some bug reports (Aside from the hardcoded limits that incite some form of request to remove/raise the limits *cough cough*World height*cough cough*?) Noideawhatmedoin: (I'm not sure if this counts as the same issue, but in the past I've tried to up some of the various "block send" variables and couldn't seem to really get past 40 or so. The world loads and is just sort of stuck in some kind of blank preload state without any evidence of the system slowing down or doing something else that is a result of rendering, so either there's some kind of weird limit.) tango_: I wonder if a possible improvements for the z buffer accuracy could be to do a split rendering, "far" vs "close" blocks, and then overlay the renders tango_: so you'd have one for view distance, say, 200 to 800 (low accuracy OK because blocks are far away anyway) vs another for 1 to 200 tango_: this of course doesn't solve the inefficiency in transferring blocks tango_: celeron55: couldn't a height limit be computed based on the view angle? tango_: or is there again an accuracy issue for far away blocks? Noideawhatmedoin: Did this just turn into #minetest-dev? Noideawhatmedoin: (Sorry was doing things, could I post a minetest.conf on a privacy friendly clone of Pastebin? Noideawhatmedoin: ) Noideawhatmedoin: (Well actually I'm stupid I somehow figured things out) Noideawhatmedoin: (Actually no wait scratch that I failed at this) tango_: Noideawhatmedoin: sprunge.us? Noideawhatmedoin: Well actually I was going to use bin.snopyta.org Noideawhatmedoin: (Never heard of this, looks cool I might use it at some point in the future) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Input: Fix on_rightclick called when placing into air 133176dae https://git.io/JIvYa (152020-11-29T18:20:45Z) specing: Why do people use seperate nodes for each state of growth? rubenwardy: because you want a different appearance Andrey01: hello, is there a support for mesh wielded items currently? Andrey01: specing: because nodes are fully static, it is impossible to change their textures/models and etc rubenwardy: yes, use a mesh node rubenwardy: that was have a mesh wield item rubenwardy: *Will Andrey01: nodes means they could be put, but I want them to be just items that couldn`t be out Andrey01: put* Andrey01: I don`t want to register a node specing: Andrey01: rubenwardy: it's not possible to vary apperance via param2 or what was it? Andrey01: of course, no. 'param2' is used for representing an orientation of a node specing: 8 bits for orientation? Andrey01: this is quite other Andrey01: yeah, as I understand, there is no a support for just items, also it is pity this is closed: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8725 rubenwardy: param2 does more than that tango_: param2 is also used for levels rubenwardy: you can vary colors, for example rubenwardy: and that tango_: so why couldn't it be used to map levels to texture? rubenwardy: probably could be, but it hasn't rubenwardy: Andrey01: you can override on_place to stop nodes from placing rubenwardy: also, that PR was closed because the author left Minetest, not because it wasn't desirable rubenwardy: (I'm aware they've left) 04j​45: Is there a minetest js library? 11F​leckenstein: uhm lol 11F​leckenstein: Well, I made Minetest 2D in JavaScript 11F​leckenstein: https://github.com/EliasFleckenstein03/dragonblocks 11F​leckenstein: try it out here: https://www.elidragon.com/projects/Dragonblocks/ 04j​45: K 04j​45: Is there a discord.js minetest library? tango_: fleckenstein: fascinating tango_: I suppose you are aware of the fact that the user can dig anything anywhere without tools, I suppose 8-) aldum: F​leckenstein: lovely Andrey01: hi, is it possible to set such dependency in depends.txt something like: 'mod1 or mod2'? That is, some mod will require either 'mod1' or 'mod2' depending from which is available, otherwise it won`t be enabled sfan5: add both as optional depends and check manually that one of them is available Andrey01: ok, thanks Andrey01: however, though it would be nice to have that sfan5: true Andrey01: and you could just write, e.g "homedecor | luxury_decor" specing: Does Lua have some form form of exception handling? There's mentions of longjmp in the refman, but that's C side Scarecrow: pcall/xpcall zughy[m]: is there a way to use the mono font in a HUD? Krock: make it your default font zughy[m]: so either I force the mono font on every HUD or I don't? Krock: *for entire Minetest zughy[m]: >:( I can't even take in consideration to go for a PR, as AFAIK you've been planning to redo that from scratch Krock: it's fine. there's yet no progress Krock: and additions will make it just a bit worse zughy[m]: approach n°2: is there a function returnin the length in pixel of a string? sfan5: there isn't MinetestBot: 02[git] 04randomMesh -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix minor bug in german translation 1329866db https://git.io/JkpYj (152020-11-29T16:43:15Z) KarasawaTakahiro: does anyone here know how to connect to minetest servers using a socks5 proxy? KarasawaTakahiro: I tried to use proxychains, but it always gives me the message "Connection timed out.", no matter which server I choose KarasawaTakahiro: I've just arrived in China. Here, without a proxy, the server list in the "Join Game" tab in won't show up. If I use proxychains to wrap minetest, the server list will work fine but I am unable to actually connect to any server. I'm using minetest 5.3.0 brad97: looking to dump the wiki for offline use. any suggestions Copenhagen_Bram: Hello! Whatever happened to all the Minetest music mods? jumbods64: hello luk3yx: Minetest uses UDP for connecting to servers, I'm not sure how proxychains handles UDP KarasawaTakahiro: luk3yx: proxychains supports socks5, I think that means UDP is redirected properly Andrey01: Hello. I`d like to clarify: is 'self.object' a full or light userdata? ullnrr: how much minimum ram would i need for a server? ullnrr: would 1gb or ram be enough for 10 players? ullnrr: of* MeVegan[m]: unllrr: I would say you need at least 2gb ram, at least in my experience. I've noticed lag with as little as 4 people on a server with 1gb ram before. sfan5: Andrey01: type() will tell you doesn't it? in any case objectrefs (and pretty much everything else) are full userdata Andrey01: thanks kingowain: hey i play minetest lmat: Looks like I had an error in the mobs plugin. Where do I report these? https://imgur.com/JhuxBKg.png heavygale: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_animal/issues Krock: git pull Krock: with some luck it's already fixed lmat: heavygale: Wow, you're good :-D lmat: Krock: Yeah, could be. I haven't updated in a while. lmat: Krock: I took the opportunity to update all my mods :-D Next time the server restarts, it might just be bedlam.. heavygale: is the mailcow api per default activated for "172.22.1.1" ? is that for the mailcow ui? Krock: sorry what? heavygale: lol :D wrong channel tango_: hm no audio on hdmi tango_: I wonder why ullnrr: i've set up the server and now i'm trying to configure it ullnrr: is it normal that i can't see other players items? also is there a setting that prevents attack spamming? Andrey01: I seem there are some anti-spam mods, but I can mistake Andrey01: or I mess them anti-cheat Andrey01: with* sfan5: by default if you dont wait about 1s between tool uses they will not do full damage (sometimes none at all) to other players ullnrr: is there also a guide on how to install mods on the server? Andrey01: well, you can just install them from ContentDB straightely in the embedded installer in the game menu or download from the forums and unpack to 'mods' folder by hand ullnrr: yes from terminal i'll have to do this manually ullnrr: i'm not sure how to enable them cheapie: ullnrr: Easiest way if you want to do it manually is to put them in ~/.minetest/worlds//worldmods - other methods *do* work, but if you do it this way you don't have to deal with "enabling" anything. Andrey01: but why do you want from terminal? why would you just not download them on the forums and then unpack by itself in the corresponding folder? ullnrr: ok found it 11J​onathon: "but why do you want from terminal? why would you just not download them on the forums and then unpack by itself in the corresponding folder?" fastest is git clone in worldmods 11J​onathon: *on a server via terminal that is cheapie: Andrey01: Kind of a pain having to update everything manually instead of just using git :P ullnrr: that's what i'm doing ullnrr: now i have to change privilege settings ullnrr: let's see where are these Andrey01: well, yes, I meant this is the easiest way for users who doesn`t know the git commands. The fastest is ContentDB installer Andrey01: it is actually faster than via git pull ullnrr: done ullnrr: there are some mods without git page Copenhagen_Bram: Hello ronoaldo: Hi! On a server (using debian packages) can I add mod configuration properties to the world.mt or they should go to /etc/minetest/minetest.conf ? ullnrr: found a way to get these ullnrr: anyway let me know if it's normal that i can't see what other players are wielding Copenhagen_Bram: Is there an API to adjust melee atack range/range of interaction with mobs? specing: how come there is no vector.min and vector.max? 04o​neplustwo: is that like min_element? specing: Hmm, actually, perhaps it's not well understood whether it should return the per element minimum or the one that is the closest to 0,0,0) specing: I was thinking the former, though specing: e.g. vector.sort returns two new vectors, one having the minimal and the other maximal coordinates specing: this is probably incorrect/unexpected behaviour? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid generating the same chunk more than once with multiple emerge t… 13f1d72d2 https://git.io/JkQHy (152020-11-27T04:31:20Z) 11I​hrFussel: specing, but that causes more server lag when regenerating again...it's a 2-edged sword 09w​war: This chat is too active especially when im not online Splyncryth: big split happen, quite a few people left out algun: Hi. Remind me please, besides the correct placement of the basic_robot's spawner, what must I do to be able to listen to keyboard events? algun: keyboard.get() always returns nil for me it seems algun: should i pass it any arguments? specing: Is there a food-rebalancing script out there? Something that would munch all the register_node.on_use/item_eat() calls and assign weights to crafting/furnacing/etc steps such that all foods fall between 1 and 20 stamina? rubenwardy: not that I know of, sounds like a good modding task ullnrr: test ullnrr: what would be the cheapest option to set up a server? ullnrr: which server specs should i look for if i'm planning to have 10/15 people connected at the same time? sfan5: cheapest is a computer at your home (assuming you have a suitable network) 10J​ordach: It’ll cost you more than enough money in VPS 10J​ordach: Better off spending a few hundred up front for a Ryzen box 10J​ordach: Stress testing my server with thousands of active objects and barely made dtime sweat on a 3xxx Ryzen 10J​ordach: From testing I use 1mbps per player at 30hz step time tango_: how good is multicore usage for MT? sfan5: not very 12W​arr1024: The problem with self-hosting isn't necessarily cost, it's often internet access. People have crappy internet connections with terrible performance, or restrictive EULAs. People also may have lousy electrical service that makes it hard to maintain uptime, and they may not be around all hours of the day to babysit a machine. When you pay for a VPS, you're not really paying just for a computer, but also for people to manage some MTDiscord: of the very basics for you. 11I​hrFussel: Electricity also costs money...and depending on where you live it can be a lot if you offer a 24/7 service celeron55: fun fact: on the other hand, if you're heating with electricity, you might as well use a server to generate the heat instead of directly using a heater element. but in places where electric heating is used electricity isn't that expensive anyway specing: in that case one uses a heat pump 10J​ordach: That’s what scaleway does in Belgium and France iirc 10J​ordach: They had some experiments with Atoms celeron55: specing: depends on the outside temperature, here it gets cold enough that a heat pump doesn't get much efficiency when most heating is required specing: depends on the heat pump too specing: mine is cheaper than gas down to about -10'C celeron55: also, an air-to-air heat pump makes noise specing: indeed it does celeron55: altough so makes a server specing: But it's not the only type of heat pump specing: ait-to-water is also popular as dropin for traditional natural gas boilers celeron55: of course, altough others are really expensive if you don't already have heating ducts or pipes and radiators specing: though it's hideously expensive (jacked up prices I guess, subsidies did their work...) specing: indeed specing: air-air (traditional mini-split airconditioner) is the cheapest way to heat/cool 10J​ordach: Regarding sound volume I can’t even hear my Ryzen machine at full whack running operations on a 250gb SQL database all night long specing: at least here celeron55: in my house i have a rather capable wood fireplace, resistive heaters, other old fireplaces converterd into energy storing resistive heaters, an air-to-air heat pump and a resistively heated hot water reservoir celeron55: resistive heaters are quite fine when they can be run on cheap night electricity celeron55: converted* specing: nope specing: even the worst air-to-air heat pumps have 250% "energy efficiency" specing: the $500 ones you can get in random shops celeron55: it gets down to -25°C here every winter, an air-to-air heat pump does basically nothing more than a resistive heater at those temperatures, some are even programmed to refuse to operate specing: mini-splits, that is, the window mount or portable ones are a complete joke celeron55: or just break down specing: ah yes, at -25'C you want a water-water one specing: with a well down to groundwater celeron55: that would cost more than 10 years worth of resistive+wood heating and still consumes some electricity on top of that celeron55: and at that point it already needs considerable maintenance celeron55: of course depending on luck celeron55: potentially a litecoin mining rig would be the most cost effective heater. get some of the electicity cost back in virtual currency 8) 10J​ordach: With the cost of a decent asic or GPU you might as well spend it elsewhere at current difficulties specing: celeron55: highly likely, yes specing: a water-water heat pump setup is like $30000 specing: I wonder how easy it would be to convert an air-air mini-split into a water-air one celeron55: in my experience, for money laundering, firewood works just as well as cryptocurrencies, if you need to do legally questionable activities 8) specing: submerge it's external radiator into a water tank and add a pump that pumps groundwater up into it celeron55: of course it takes a truck to haul firewood around unlike bitcoins specing: and do the same with the internal radiator , submerge it to a tank + add a pump to make it go around radiators celeron55: i guess it could work specing: replace $20000 of ripoff with $2000 of material + some work celeron55: you don't think there's a reason for the $20k price tag? specing: there is: subsidies specing: they jacked up the price because they can celeron55: oh yeah, you can get subsidies for some things around here too, but i think it's only for converting away from an oil boiler or something celeron55: they consider any electric heating to be fine celeron55: of course if you get very political you could state that nobody has the right to live in a cold place celeron55: because they'll have to use so much energy celeron55: anyway celeron55: if i had in-floor heating with water pipes i could experiment with all that celeron55: but my floor is from 1930 with some added insulation in the 80s. the nice thing about that is that it'll last forever with no maintenance celeron55: there's beauty in things where nothing can go wrong celeron55: add water pipes and in 30 years you'll have nightmares every night of them bursting celeron55: if not earlier specing: you can add plastic ones, those should last much longer specing: or use some other fluid that water celeron55: probably illegal to use anything else than water due to environmental concerns celeron55: one thing i don't understand celeron55: why are air-to-air heat pumps always installed in absolutely idiotic places where you never want to run them becase you get a flu from them blowing right at you where you sit every day specing: Illegal? I don't think so specing: celeron55: well, you are not supposed to be "blowing" them specing: but actually, I have it directly above where my home "office" is, and it's very enjoyable specing: People get sick because of temperature differences, probably specing: I think there's a rule of "no more than 5'C", so don't cool to more than outside-5'C, or don't go outside/spend some time in a transition area celeron55: if you have a tendency for dry eyes or such any airflow is unbearable celeron55: both when heating and cooling celeron55: and the heated air often isn't hot enough for it to even feel warm at all, when heating celeron55: and if it was, efficiency would go down specing: I have it set to 23.5'C and it feels warm MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid marking map blocks dirty upon deserialization. 13f1349be https://git.io/JkHAK (152020-11-26T19:41:55Z) fattywompus: How much space could a minetest server conceivably take up with say one fully explored game world just as a reference? Krock: you'd need an entire storage room for that Krock: nah, just a few terabytes MinetestBot: 02[git] 04srinivas32 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Added ppc64le architecture to travis-ci (#81) 13e88fcf0 https://git.io/JkQvS (152020-11-26T20:36:44Z) 11I​hrFussel: My map is restricted to 15000 in all directions and is largely explored by now...the size is 76 GB MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix style 138689e00 https://git.io/JkQJL (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Provide fallback star color for GLES 2 with MT shaders disabled 13c158e20 https://git.io/JkQJt (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Sky: support GLES2 13cdcf7dc https://git.io/JkQJq (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow missing shaders 13be59668 https://git.io/JkQJm (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace TriangleFan as poorly supported 13d7cf40a https://git.io/JkQJY (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Reuse seed when updating stars 13560627e https://git.io/JkQJO (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Store stars in a single static mesh buffer 133077afc https://git.io/JkQJ3 (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Don't evaluate things many times 1389cc5bf https://git.io/JkQJG (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Batch cloud drawing 13095f826 https://git.io/JkQJZ (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) fattywompus: Wow that pretty sizeable. I have a loose 256 GB SSD and was torn between upgrading the 128GB SSD in my old backup gaming rig then using the freed up 128 GB SSD in an old P4 machine to use as a server. I guess the 256 would be a safer bet for the server Krock: fattywompus: you can always limit the map to not generate further than, say, 4000m into each direction Krock: that also limits it quite a lot 11I​hrFussel: Keep in mind that it entirely depends on multiple factors: 1. Whether or not you set a mapgen limit 2. What type of gameplay your server has (teleportation mostly generates more random map parts versus just exploring) 3. How many players you have 4. How active those are...the world I use is over 4 years old now and it has 500,000+ accounts created...after several years 70-100 GB is not a lot I'd say hisforever: Hi I'm having trouble understanding the billboard mod? specing: You could save a lot of space by regularly pruning old blocks specing: blocks that have only natural nodes + torches/super glow glass hisforever: I just made a theather and need a sign on it? hear is my lua file https://pastebin.com/tHDgcSSN hisforever: the error is at line 111 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Change typedef to normal definitions in GUI code 139bb381e https://git.io/JkQLv (152020-11-26T21:42:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Return star color calculation to what it previously was 13868749b https://git.io/JkQLf (152020-11-26T21:17:11Z) fattywompus: Gotcha thanks for all the input. Sounds like 128 would do just fine then, but I'm thinking I'll use the 256 just to have some extra room fattywompus: How about this... if you had to chose, for a server, between an old dell workstation with 2 northwood era 3Ghz hyperthreading xeons, 533 Mhx FSB, and 4 GB of DDR ram, or a regular single CPU desktop with a 3 Ghz hyperthreading prescott P4 at 800Mhz FSB and 4 GB of DDR2... I'm thinking the faster FSB and DDR2 would outweigh having the 2nd CPU? A bit better single threaded speed over having more threads? sfan5: what's an FSB celeron55: those machines will consume more electricity than what the cost of a cheap VPS is celeron55: while being marginally more powerful if at all celeron55: just go pick a core duo from a trash bin or something, still free but considerably faster and more efficient celeron55: less noise too rubenwardy: yeah. A VPS is cheaper and better when it comes to network, electricity, and other. Data centers benefit from economies of scale rubenwardy: A lot of the big companies also have carbon neutral computing which is goal - data centers running on renewable energy rubenwardy: there's also data centers in old shipping containers, underwater and in the arctic rubenwardy: I'm not sure what % of the total these things are, but they are cool rubenwardy: because they're in the arctic fattywompus: FSB is front side bus speed... Yeah, I figure if any of my friends or family maintain an interest I'll get a VPS. It's just what I have laying around at the moment and figure I can get some practice administering it on my home network where if something borks up I can go in the other room and deal with the maching in person rubenwardy: Finland is basically in the arctic :D celeron55: well that's going quite far as you can buy renewable electricity if you want. just don't waste it on 20 year old machines when 10 year old ones are much better and not more expensive rubenwardy: the scale of computing is crazy these days celeron55: of course if you're just doing a test for a few months then whatever, have fun with the old things celeron55: but for something running for years it doesn't make sense to run a P4 rubenwardy: Some Linux devs saved the world massive amounts of energy by changing shell cursors to be static and not flash. The flashing would result in excess network use celeron55: in a single year it'll consume like 50 to 100 euros worth of electricity celeron55: when sitting idle rubenwardy: p4? celeron55: pentium 4 rubenwardy: ah fattywompus: I can agree it's kind of nonsensical long term 10J​ordach: i mean hell you can get Haswell Refresh machines for under a couple hundred these days 10J​ordach: (if not Skylake if you're lucky( specing: Aaah specing: winter is coming * specing: unboxes a P4 machine rubenwardy: Winter is here 10J​ordach: 1C outside right now celeron55: anyone else have snow already? fattywompus: If I were to get a haswell refresh machine that would be the newest computer in my house :P Currently my 3rd gen i5 laptop holds that title sfan5: don't think I've seen snow here in the last 24 months Calinou: me neither :( jluc: gn 05e​xe_virus: Frost-Ranger: you are in a different place, haha. BLS is special in that regard. I'm not saying that contabo is great price for the money, but instead saying that for someone who wants a private server for friends or family, basic genesis hosting for $40/year is awesome compared to say $180 for contabo. blaise: hrmmm...... Fractalis: hi 0/ Emerald2: Hi Fractalis! Fractalis: Hows it going Emerald2? Im just waking up with coffee, usually not up this early lol Emerald2: I'm up late with tea, just relaxing. Emerald2: Complaining about v7 mapgen on servers where I want to build towns or cities. XD Fractalis: whats up with v7 mapgen specifically that causes problems? something with terrain gen? Emerald2: Too many cliffs and messy terrain, yeah. Emerald2: It doesn't have much in the way of flat areas. Emerald2: Carpathian is best mapgen. idontknowmyname: hi idontknowmyname: i am playing with schematics and i have the problem that liquids don't flow after i placed that schematic. am i supposed to update the map afterwards or something? sfan5: sounds like some sort of known bug sfan5: you can try "placing" an air node next to the liquid with a place_node() call, then it should flow idontknowmyname: here is a screenshot: https://ibb.co/JHj39NQ idontknowmyname: the corners are air already sfan5: yeah just try placing air there again idontknowmyname: ah, ok. now i got it idontknowmyname: thanks, i'll try idontknowmyname: i just started learning lua, so forgive me the beginner question: what's the easiest way to iterate the integer object handle minetest.register_schematic returns and get all nodes which are air? obviously, i want to automate the place_node call 12W​arr1024: Re: hosting ... for an MT server, disk space does matter in the longer term for public servers. Players will explore a lot and expand the world. If you keep backups (which you should try to find a way to do at least) then these will be significantly bigger. I have a TINY world (IIRC limited to 8 km^3) and I have ~40GB of backups already. 12W​arr1024: As for remote access, most come with SSH since SSH lets you access 100% of the interface of the server by default. If you want a graphical environment you'd have to install and configure one first, over SSH, but then you could use a mix of Xvfb, VNC, and SSH tunneling to get a GUI desktop. It's not recommended for a server though, because those interfaces are cumbersome and wasteful, and not likely to behave very well over a MTDiscord: high-latency connection that might span the planet. jumbods64: hello Soni: are we banned heavygale: of what? Soni: last time we were here a mod was extremely disrespectful towards us Soni: can we turn minetest into an HTTP daemon and a wasm blob? tango_: lol Soni: with client mods over webext and common mods over lua and javascript? Soni: and built-in midi support? Soni: (thanks webmidi) specing: it could be worse tango_: it could be raining Soni: yeah we also have WebUSB Soni: still waiting for Webx86Virtd tho Soni: install windows on firefox Soni: but anyway heavygale: what would you want windows for Oo Soni: regardless of that, what about wasm builds of minetest shipped with the server which now does HTTP while at it? Soni: like Soni: ppl aren't gonna install minetest. but if you can make minetest servers just... run Soni: just open them and start playing Soni: that could be huge Soni: and with client modding support with webexts that could be even more huge Soni: and relying on the browser for sandboxing means a lot less work needs to be done on sandboxing and mods get to be a lot more interesting heavygale: go ahead :) heavygale: fork it, make it a webclient 11J​onathon: someone already did if i recall correctly, let me see if i can find it 11J​onathon: https://github.com/zaoqi/minetest-novnc-docker 11J​onathon: well, similar Soni: nobody runs minetest servers with that Soni: also the latency is awful 11J​onathon: never tried it, so cant comment, just have seen it 11J​onathon: maybe i should try it sometime Soni: it's just a VNC webclient Soni: ever VNCed over an 500ms RTT connection? 11J​onathon: pretty terrible 11J​onathon: ive tried minetest over rdp, mouse input is bad, i wonder how it fairs on that Soni: so yeah Soni: a proper wasm client would be the best 11J​onathon: well good luck Soni: also can the local dungeon run minetest? y'know, minecraft EULA bans local dungeon from running minecraft. :< 11J​onathon: local dungeon? 🤔 Soni: yeah, local dungeon. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix camera panning glitches (partially revert 10489.) 138dc70eb https://git.io/JkSUN (152020-11-25T22:22:36Z) daiNoZord: Hello all - I'm attempting to add functionality to my game and one thing i want to rule out is various privileges like "fly" and "teleport". I would like these to rewards for completing arduous quests etc. I do, however have several "Star Trek" style transporters that use (I think) a mesecons coseblock. But users require the privilege. I need a player to hit a button on a pre-programmed block to teleport (preferrably daiNoZord: "nearest player") to another location - or to the users location... etc. I've got the teleport script open in geanie now and i've looked at other mods but im not a coser and its a headache. Any ideas? 05e​xe_virus: Ah, you can set the player position directly, rather than using teleport daiNoZord: ooh via the codeblock or via lua? 05e​xe_virus: Via lua was what I was thinking, code block might work. The command would be: :set_pos(pos) cheapie: daiNoZord: "codeblock" as in the command block, or did they add something new when I wasn't looking? daiNoZord: Im just looking at "" and (not being a coder) im thinking - does that follow a path of say (i pseudocode here at best): Get objects in range.... or getplayer by name.... :set_pos(pos) and then x,y,z... daiNoZord: @cheapie... it could be... it just could be... cheapie: If it's the command block *and* you have WorldEdit installed, '/lua minetest.get_player_by_name("@nearest"):set_pos(vector.new(123,45,678))' is probably along the lines of what you want. cheapie: I can never remember if set_pos() or setpos() is the deprecated/removed/something one, change it if needed. daiNoZord: @cheapie - I don't have worldedit (yet) tho ive heard good things about it. vectors seem to be a thing i should know about - thanks cheapie: You can make the position table yourself if you want, it's just a pain to type it all out and vector.new() is easier. 05e​xe_virus: All good points. DaiNoZord: the vector stuff is basically a library that we include with minetest. Just Google search: "Github minetest vector.lua" That'll give you all the functions for working with vectors (which is what all "pos" are) daiNoZord: is there documentation behind using vectors (haha) sorry to sound noobier than lord noobus of noobville but i started to get my head round the basics .... but when it comes to alittle bit of functionality, well... cheapie: They're in the same file as the rest of the API: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minetest/master/doc/lua_api.txt daiNoZord: Thanks MTDiscord cheapie: A little under halfway through the file, "Spatial vectors" section. daiNoZord: Thanks cheapie - i'll look into both of those cheapie: Has lots of other functions that are useful for mod-making too, with vector.add() and vector.normalize() probably being the two that I use most after vector.new(). 05e​xe_virus: As for understanding why we use vectors, they're just a specific type of "table"... In lua we store multiple variables together in tables. A position vector in minetest is a table with three variables, named x,y and z: Tables are defined with {} So a position vector is simply: {x=0,y=0,z=0} And that's known as a position/vector/table daiNoZord: im electronics so i have a basic understanding of what needs to be where - its just getting it there lol. i'll certainly look at those docs tho :) daiNoZord: Im looking now Splyncryth: is there a link to servers specs? How much memory per user, cpu use, network use, etc... VanessaE: the biggest thing you have to be concerned about, Splyncryth, is the memory used by your mods VanessaE: number of users doesn't have a significant impact, other than how much of the map they cause your server to load-up VanessaE: CPU is more or less the same issue 10J​ordach: as long as entities are in the same general mapblock VanessaE: my server machine has a 3.some GHz Xeon with 4 cores/8 threads, 32 GB RAM, 200 MBps pipe, and runs 7 game instances. it's not common for it to use more than 2 threads' worth of CPU, 8 GB of RAM, and 10 Mbps of bandwidth. even during its heyday it barely exceeded that 10J​ordach: (ie 80x80x80 segment) you can roughly have several thousand active entities 10J​ordach: if not more VanessaE: that's a chunk, not a mapblock :P 10J​ordach: clients can actually handle this quitewell 10J​ordach: even an eight year old Intel CPU handles that 05e​xe_virus: Depends on if those entities have animations or are static. Animated entities starts to bog down at ~150 entities 10J​ordach: that's because your constantly spamming packets at clients 10J​ordach: big nono 10J​ordach: my games entities are two classes: player attached, or cosmetic entirely 10J​ordach: cosmetic delete themselves the moment their job is done (as well as self removal on server start) 10J​ordach: players are destroyed on join/leave, but are entirely visual specing: speaking of packet spam, is it just me or is every node's formspec sent whenever it's updated? specing: i.e. machines => a lot of traffic? 10J​ordach: no, just the map meta info for the whole 16^3 area eyekay[m]: iirc you need to start from an elevation, as the height _is_ gained, but very slowly, when spacebar is pressed eyekay[m]: * iirc you need to start from an elevation, as the height _is_ gained, but very slowly, when spacebar is pressed. eyekay[m]: And there is another (better) flying carpet mod but I don't remember its name.. Its from some aviation-related modpack specing: J​ordach so, all the formspecs in that 16^3? specing: J​ordach and probably all the formspecs in the neighbouring 16^3 blocks? 10J​ordach: it doesn't resend formspecs 10J​ordach: just node metadata 10J​ordach: ie, the node, meta fields, param1/2 10J​ordach: formspecs are only sent when needed Flitzpiepe: hello everyone Emerald2: G'day Flitzpiepe. hisforever: Hi, What mod do I have to install for other people? Emerald2: What other people, hisforever? Emerald2: Like NPC villagers? Or traders? hisforever: yes I need them Emerald2: Can you be more specific about what you want them to do? There are multiple mods. Emerald2: There are ones that seem to build and things: https://content.minetest.net/packages/theFox/working_villages/ hisforever: what I need is charters that will be behing a counter Emerald2: Traders? Emerald2: Like these? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9013 Emerald2: I don't know what MT version they support though. I just searched the forum. hisforever: thanks thats what I needed God bless Splyncryth: Hi everyone, if I want to hose a minetest server on a vps how much hardware would I need for 2-4 players? Splyncryth: This would be on a v7 map, with 20+ mods Splyncryth: minecraft has a chart breaking down memory and cpu use, is there one for minetest? Emerald2: I've never heard of there being any such chart. BuckarooBanzai: Splyncryth: 2-4 players and 20+ mods should even fit on a raspberry pi 4 :) i think with 2gb+ and 2 or more cores you are good to go BuckarooBanzai: (depending on the mods of course, if you plan to add a couple of "heavy" tech-mods it can get tight real quick) Splyncryth: nice Splyncryth: does exploration add to memory use? Splyncryth: as in multiple people exploring different, new areas, of the map? BuckarooBanzai: not really, but it will cause some lag spikes BuckarooBanzai: *it causes Splyncryth: nice! Splyncryth: sounds more streamlined than minecraft BuckarooBanzai: also: i recommend turning on luajit for (far) better performance Splyncryth: how? BuckarooBanzai: i guess you are compiling the engine from source, right? if so: you need some additional luajit-dev packages, depending on your distro Splyncryth: im not Splyncryth: getting right off the repo BuckarooBanzai: ah, no idea how or with what features that gets shipped, sorry :P BuckarooBanzai: if you enter "minetest --version" you should see whats enabled and what not BuckarooBanzai: in luajit's case: "USE_LUAJIT=1" Splyncryth: looks like repo version has it turned on! BuckarooBanzai: nice, what engine-version? i hope 5.0 or above... Splyncryth: 5.1.1 BuckarooBanzai: 5.3 is the latest version, but 5.1.1will do fine i guess Krock: !tell kilbith no, inherited from PilzAdam. I don't know how to model. if I did, I had changed it to a shallower model long time ago MinetestBot: Krock: I'll pass that on when kilbith is around jluc: hello Krock: hi jluc: my son and i want to create a minetest server jluc: can you advise a webhoster that is cheap and sufficient for such a project ? Krock: your Raspberry PI at home Krock: cannot give any better answer, sorry. jluc: ok that's a fun and nice answer jluc: 2 projects in one ! sfan5: note that Minetest requires a Linux environment with shell access to run, ideally a VPS; specifically "web hosting" won't cut it Krock: too bad. there's only a setup guide, but no server host list Krock: (neither does cloud hosting) sfan5: what people mean when the say "cloud hosting" varies wildly Krock: for most cases I've seen it's meant as private fiel storage Krock: but yes indeed, it's a very unclear term Ingar: you can get a cheap vps for less than 10 EUR/month Krock: digitalocean, linode, virmach, ... jluc: when the raspberry pi is ok, i guess any cheap vps is ok Krock: well, you should have 1 GiB of RAM for sure, and enough storage just to be sure Krock: it all comes down to how heavy mods you'd like to use jluc: ah Krock: also keep in mind that microsd cards aren't designed for frequent writes. small ones will wear out very quickly when most space is used Krock: speaking of long-term. for a family project it's probably enough jluc: yes we dont plan being big as for now SwissalpS: an old laptop is great too Vagabond[m]: I think one of the significant differences between a Pi/Laptop locally, versus a VPS is accessibility. Generally, a local machine won't be accessible by the Internet at large, whereas most VPS have static IPs. jluc: and i dont like the idea of having a machine home running 24/24 specing: self-host: big disk+tiny network, vps: tiny disk+big network Krock: is Minetest playable on a Samsung smart fridge? jluc: i suppose industrial hosters have a better climate-impact ratio specing: Krock | your Raspberry PI at home specing: just don't buy that, it's a waste jluc: why so specing ? specing: jluc: "climate-impact"? specing: jluc: RPI is not open source hardware, and the company behind it is hostile to software freedom jluc: well burning petrol for 2020V AC to have it run specing: jluc: your home is off-grid and running on petrol generators? SwissalpS: when I hear 'family server' I think LAN and not running 24/7 jluc: i dont have engines running 24/24 apart a small (unsmart) fridge jluc: oh, lol, no not off grid, but AC comes from atom and petrol, neither being future friendly specing: atom = nuclear? jluc: yes specing: nuclear is future friendly and is one of the greenest jluc: :-) and girls are born in roses specing: wind = 10gCO2equiv, nuclear=11g, solar(panels)=45g specing: per kWh SwissalpS: solar doesn't have the radioactive waste problem though jluc: pff i dont have same numbers lol : 490g/kwH for nuclear jluc: but i wouldnt mind just keep on topic rubenwardy: nuclear is necessary but not perfect rubenwardy: until we have better batteries and lots more renewables, nuclear is here to stay heavygale: and stay forever 11J​onathon: for budget vps hosting: ive seen a few people recommend: https://contabo.com/?show=vps specing: jluc | pff i dont have same numbers lol : 490g/kwH for nuclear specing: what on earth specing: how/where does it say 490g/kWh of nuclear? specing: Jonathon they oversell. A lot. 11J​onathon: you would have to ask someone like warr1024 who uses them, just seen them recommend 12W​arr1024: You talking about rpis? 12W​arr1024: I don't use them for bulk or economical compute power. I use them when I need to get computing into a specific tight place, and access to things like power or network at that specific location may be limited. 12W​arr1024: If you're talking about contabo, I've had pretty good results from them so far. I use the SSD S VPS, and it's like $5 a month and plenty to run my smallish MT server with tons of overhead to spare. 12W​arr1024: If someone else runs an MT server that's either higher traffic, or with higher complexity mods, I'd be interested to hear at what point things start to break down. jluc: smthg like 4€/month "contabo vps 300" ? LoneWolfHT: I have this link saved for when I want to start a server https://contabo.com/?show=configurator&vserver_id=221 12W​arr1024: That's cheaper than the SSD S, but I went with the SSD S not specifically because of the faster hard disk, but because the number of cores and RAM were both double at that price point. 12W​arr1024: yeah, the id=221 is the one I use. 12W​arr1024: I mean, it's 20% more expensive than the VPS 300, but 120% of almost nothing is still almost nothing. 12W​arr1024: It's really hard to find anything cheaper than this, other than free stuff. Free stuff unfortunately means you're not really a "customer" to someone, and thus you can't rely on that relationship. jluc: is mtdiscord coming from some Discord bridge ? jluc: i dont see any minetest related chan on default discord 12W​arr1024: yeah. I'm in IRC too (assuming my client isn't crashed out) but sometimes I just happen to be closer to the Discord side of things so it can be more convenient to just talk from here. 11G​reenXenith: What is "default discord"? Calinou: Contabo looks nice, thanks for the link :) Calinou: will keep them around in case I have to recommend a VPS host to others 12W​arr1024: I'm a bit surprised about how Contabo is able to offer stuff at such a low price, but I think it's a combination of (1) economies of scale, e.g. they have a few largeish datacenters, and (2) they don't have like huge brand recognition like Amazon Web Services or Azure or Google Cloud that allow them to charge like 20x for comparable services. 12W​arr1024: They're also not an "on demand" kind of provider where you can requisition thousands of servers, use them for 15 minutes, then shut them all down, and be billed only for the actual seconds of compute time you used, so that may be a significant factor too :-) jluc: yes it looks interesting but do i undestand well that HTTPS is a 75€ option ? Calinou: you can get free certificates from Let's Encrypt Calinou: no need to get one from them Calinou: @Warr1024 In France, we have many hosts that operate as nonprofits and are able to provide such low prices as well Calinou: support staffers are usually not paid, they just do it as a hobby 12W​arr1024: Yeah, selling TLS certs for money this day and age ... :-/ Calinou: https://pulseheberg.com/ is an example of this Calinou: (they only speak French, though) 12W​arr1024: Oof, language barrier is harsh Calinou: it probably helps decrease their support burden :) Calinou: I'm French so it's no problem for me jluc: ah c'est chouette ça aussi calinou jluc: :-) 12W​arr1024: When I bought the Contabo server, I got everything bare minimum. On the flip side, I know how to manage the whole system myself, so for anyone looking for MT hosting who doesn't do all that stuff, it may be a bit more difficult to keep prices down. jluc: but i read its for students only calinou 12W​arr1024: I haven't used minecity.online myself, but I see them interacting with the community quite a bit. It's much pricier at like $15 USD per month or something, but they also provide good minetest-specific support. Calinou: jluc: no, they have offers for everyone Calinou: student offers are only for shared hosting so you can get a better price jluc: i see jluc: that's an alternative to ovh 12W​arr1024: Everyone should be a lifelong student anyway :-) jluc: sure ! but this doesnt require/provide an official student card Calinou: I'm no longer a student :'( 12W​arr1024: You're always SOME kind of student as long as you're learning :-D 12W​arr1024: Can I home-school myself for grad school and print myself a student ID...? Calinou: usually, online university isn't accepted in student deals Calinou: but it depends on the deal in question, there's no real standard Calinou: some deals will require inputting an university email address, others will require you to send a PDF scan of some document (which isn't always verified manually!) 12W​arr1024: Makes sense, they have to draw a line somewhere or else their student offer is just an everyone offer. Calinou: I remember getting a student offer for Allegorithmic software, you get it instantly, which leads me to think the verification process was either automatic or completely absent Calinou: (that was in 2016 and 2017) Calinou: I had to send a PDF of my registration certificate for that one specing: Oh specing: Contabo isn't even that cheap 11G​reenXenith: I havent seen anything cheaper? At least not for those specs specing: Yes, what I meant was that they are not that much cheaper than other similar hosters specing: disk space is very high, but that's about it 05e​xe_virus: Still gotta reccomend genesishosting. They have great linux vps at around $3-5/mo depending on your server ram needs, and offer up to 25% discount when you get like 1-2 years paid up front. 11G​reenXenith: You can get more cores, comprable memory, and triple the storage for a fraction of the price at contabo 05e​xe_virus: With student discounts sure? 05e​xe_virus: Storage doesn't really matter for 99% of servers. Comparable memory would be impressive if that's for the public. Especially when combined with more cores... fattywompus: Hello minetesters... so if you were to get a VPS is there any kind of remote desktop option to manage it? Or is it strictly SSH in terminal? That seems like it would make things a lot easier for the uninitiated 11G​reenXenith: @exe_virus What student discounts? 11G​reenXenith: For public use contabo provides six cores, 20GB RAM, 1400GB storage, 1000mbps for $15USD/mo FrostRanger[m]: exe_virus: I would have to disagree that storage generally doesn't matter much, map files and whatnot can get quite large FrostRanger[m]: especially if the server is quite popular hisforever: Hi is there a way to keep the boat from bouncing? I have many beach houses, and I'd like to use the boat. specing: is the function param in register_chatcommand guaranteed to always be non-nil? Seems like no param results in empty string? Can we depend on this? 11I​hrFussel: Yes it will always he a string unless something somehow nils param before you use it 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Irc is actually trash, stop using it 03E​merald: IRC is fine and people aren't going to stop using it just because you said so. Emerald2: Matrix yeeting time. Oof. 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Lad, we both know the truth about irc 03f​atalerror420 (seared): ._. padresmurfa: First time using IRC since the '90s. Message #1: IRC is trash, stop using it :P . Message #2: IRC is fine :P . Followed by a mass-yeeting.... Maybe fatalerror20 has a point... ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Its low budget discord at most 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Anyway padresmurfa: Which in turn is low-budget #slack 03f​atalerror420 (seared): How dare you say such things about my quirky discord chat thingy 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Ok immediately regret saying that padresmurfa: 😈 Follpvosten[m]: Matrix is the future 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Tewt 03f​atalerror420 (seared): Test* Noideawhatmedoin: Question, is it possible to expand the maxiumum world height in Minetest with mods? heavygale: what would you need that for? :D heavygale: 31000 blocks above 0 should be enough or not? Noideawhatmedoin: I understand that it doesn't sound very pratical, I guess it's all about the what-if's or something. It really comes down to "why not", personally it would be pretty cool in combination with something like WorldEdit (not to mention unlimited viewing range) where you can build massive buildings. Noideawhatmedoin: I just asking if it's possible without changing the source code of Minetest. Noideawhatmedoin: *I'm rubenwardy: No, you can't rubenwardy: you can decrease sizes but can't make them larger, Noideawhatmedoin rubenwardy: you could _mod_ the engine in the same way games without formal mod support have mods Noideawhatmedoin: So basically I would have edit the source code? Noideawhatmedoin: (Of Minetest itself?) Waffelo: water specing: Noideawhatmedoin:y Noideawhatmedoin: (Oh wait my bad you mean "injecting" it into the files or runtime somehow, got it. I guess that still counts as "Edit the source code and compile Minetest" though.) hisforever: Hi I have a problem, My boat from vehicle mod is bobbong like a cork. How can I get to be still? jonadab: Noideawhatmedoin: Easiest way to do that is going to be to patch the source, yes. jonadab: Theoretically a binary patch is possible, but the only reason to ever do that is if source is unavailable, which does not apply here. z_sk: Hi. I have VPS server with minetestserver. I run public minetest server, but i dont see in global list of server. But if i give manual DNS/port, then all is ok. What do i do for add server to public list? rubenwardy: server_announce = true rubenwardy: make sure it's accessible outside rubenwardy: and if available on ipv6, enable it in the settings rubenwardy: !up ctf.rubenwardy.com 30001 MinetestBot: ctf.rubenwardy.com:30001 is up (10ms) (IPv6) rubenwardy: for example z_sk: i have it z_sk: but nothing tesrodome: Would anyone on Mac happen to have had any luck with shift clicking? I'm still struggling with shift-clicking items in the inventory not working z_sk: must i set server_address, server_address tesrodome: (issue 9308 in the minetest git) heavygale: left or right shifr? check your key bindings rubenwardy: if you don't have a domain, you shouldn't need to set server_address rubenwardy: Minetest doesn't do rdns, so you will need server_address if you want a domain tesrodome: both shifts don't work unfortunately, if I remember correctly from the issue on git, it's something with the identification of shift specifically in the item/inventory context tesrodome: (shifting works fine though!) z_sk: rubenwardy domain is none problem, but i see in minetest server list another IP as domain z_sk: have i set someone flags z_sk: ? rubenwardy: do you have multiple ip addresses? rubenwardy: maybe set a bind address? z_sk: my server is (look IP) linuxos.cz port 3000 z_sk: if i connect direct from minetest, none problem z_sk: can u try to connect to my server? or how z_sk: error log are correct z_sk: can u send my example ur config? z_sk: i can send u my config, if u want rubenwardy z_sk: LOL z_sk: ping6 v6.servers.minetest.netping: v6.servers.minetest.net: Name or service not known sfan5: !up linuxos.cz 30000 MinetestBot: linuxos.cz:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) sfan5: make sure you have ipv6_server = true set then sfan5: the v6.servers.minetest.net you might find in the configuration is outdated and does not exist z_sk: sfan5 ok, server with IP6 is up sfan5: !up linuxos.cz 30000 MinetestBot: linuxos.cz:30000 is up (29ms) (IPv6) sfan5: it should work then z_sk: u can try z_sk: to join z_sk: yyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees z_sk: i see here https://servers.minetest.net/ z_sk: me missed PvP + build ;) z_sk: edit conf and run as system deamon Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! z_sk: Ok, server is up :) z_sk: good know to enable IP4/6 z_sk: hm, ping servers.minetest.net give me IP6 (it would be give IP4 and ping6 IP6) sfan5: the way your configuration is now, ipv4 automatically works too z_sk: how fast is day in game? i normal day = XY game day?! Krock: according to your world's configuration Krock: usually 20 minutes or so Krock: minetest.conf: # time_speed = 72 Krock: !c 60 * 24 / 72 MinetestBot: 20.0 Krock: coincidence z_sk: thx al z_sk: all z_sk: how can i reset new world in online server z_sk: ? Krock: remove map.sqlite Krock: the new generated map will look identical, unless you remove map_meta.txt as well z_sk: very modern :D z_sk: better someone extra command :d Krock: no need for sophisticated commands MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Add sound to press event of some formspecs elements (#10402) 137827302 https://git.io/Jkidx (152020-11-23T20:28:25Z) specing: Is a node that has no cracky,crumbly,snappy groups difined even diggable? specing: Is there a way to reload CSMs on runtime? specing: And to save command line history specing: asserts in CSMs bring down whole minetest >_> specing: I wish it was like in SpringRTS, where each lua "mod" can be started/stopped at runtime, and errors disable just that "mod" and nothing else dai: In the case of attempting to establish a public server - is "server address" my IP? On my home LAN - thanx sfan5: if you want other people to connect to your server you usually need your public ip dai: Yeah I do - ok thanx - I've tried a few things but am yet to figure it out Emerald2: You can google 'what's my IP' and it'll tell you your public IP address. specing: dai (~dai@host86-136-170-114.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) has joined #minetest specing: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ dai: i forwarded a port in my router - and even one via ufw (linux) which i dont think ive had to do b4 - and frankly am a little worried i have. My boy and I have had no problem playing on a lan - even using a crackered old laptop as a server so we could log on independently - but even with my public IP - i can't see my world or log on to it dai: specing ive spotted that kind of detail before and been puzzled by it - do i need to enter that somewhere? sfan5: wait, you're trying to play locally over LAN, right? dai: no no - we can do that - i'm trying to get the world public, thanx sfan5: then you do need port forwarding and when you want to join the world from elsewhere you'd enter the public ip sfan5: !up 86.136.170.114 30000 MinetestBot: 86.136.170.114:30000 seems to be down sfan5: assuming you have configured port 30000 and the server is up, it doesn't work right now dai: hold on - was off then. mucked around with ports - its on 34000 now. is !up a kind of ping request? I port forwarded both router and ufw (hopefully correctly) dai: !86.136.170.114:34000 dai: !up 86.136.170.114:34000 MinetestBot: 86.136.170.114:34000 is up (34ms) dai: oh sweet that seems to be ok! sfan5: MinetestBot can check reachability of MT servers for you ,yes dai: awesome - thanks for your help! adfeno: How to fly Wuzzy's flying carpet? adfeno: I place it in the ground and when I hop on it it emmits a sound, some sparkles and falls to the ground, doesn't even move to the sides nor front/up/down. Emerald2: Have you read the readme that comes with the mod? adfeno: Emerald2: Yes Emerald2: So holding space doesn't make it go up either? adfeno: No, it doesnt. Emerald2: What's your minetest version? Emerald2: And did you try picking it up and placing it again? adfeno: OK, I found something adfeno: Now it does go a bit forward, but holding forward doesn't make it go that far, since it falls to the ground again. tech_exorcist: hello Krock: hi BuckarooBanzai: o/ Andrey01: I`ve noticed when I call 'set_yaw()' it nullifies 'x' and 'z' values inside the current rotation table. Is it normal? Krock: yes, although that could be changed Andrey01: but why does it do so? Krock: set_yaw was added prior to set_rotation Krock: hence set_yaw was designed to keep the old behaviour, which meant reseting pitch and roll Andrey01: I think it needs to be fixed Andrey01: should I make a PR that fixes this behaviour? That is, keeping last values of 'x' and 'z' in that table MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix Visual Studio build in Actions 1343bc3a1 https://git.io/JkolL (152020-11-22T18:06:31Z) Sires: Hello, is minetest gravity(when its set to default values) just like the "traditional" gravity? like can I calculate the time it takes to fall from a certain height just by sqrt(2*heigth/10)? SwissalpS: I don't think so. For short heights your maths may be approximately correct. In practice network and other loading issues will falsify the duration and acceleration seems to get 'reset' Sires: what if I force the player to load the entire path they will be falling from, does the math still work? sfan5: should, yes specing: Sires: there's armor that reduces/increases gravity specing: e.g. terumet mod Sires: yeah but I'm just considering a normal scenario Sires: I could use send_mapblock(blockpos) to make the player load all the blocks they will be falling from? its not that much I think specing: it is normal on terumet servers specing: most regular players wear that armor Sires: I don't mind about other mods Sires: I'm considering I can control the mods running Sires: even then I could just change the "/10" to "/whateverthegravityis" I think SwissalpS: yes, that sounds like a good approach Sires: welp gonna try it later Sires: thx specing: Sires: hmm, is there a way to query player's weight? Sires: no idea Sires: I don't think a player should have weigth in first place sfan5: there used to be a weight property but it was removed because it was unused Sires: hmm Sires: now that I started thinking about it, I guess there is no terminal velocity? you just keep accelerating until lag or ground stops you specing: heh, then I guess Sires can just revert that commit and query weight Sires: lol SwissalpS: depending on what is in inventory, crafting grid and bags, the weight could add up and that is not yet counting the infinite digtron inventory in inventory situation SwissalpS: what I'm saying: compared to luggage, players weight is negligible 08a​ppguru: Andrey01: Take a look at the grappling hook force fields of https://content.minetest.net/packages/LMD/adv_weapons/ bobbertson: sfan5, I just want to say thank you for adding https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2424dfe007e451bb02f87884c2b272cf307d6e7c dynamic_add_media it's super helpful for my youtube_queue mod! However, performance surely suffers with transferring media files via this method. My question is, do you think it would be possible and improve performance to instead or have an alternate lua functions that sends some kind of message to all bobbertson: the clients that then use an http fetch to get the new media at runtime rather than just on connection? sfan5: it'd definitely be possible to have client asynchronously load media and notify the server when they're done sfan5: though I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to wait for CSM to be ready since then everything can happen on the client bobbertson: what is CSM exactly? sfan5: Lua code the server sends that would run on the client bobbertson: ah ok bobbertson: my needs is i want to send ogg files to the clients in some form or another bobbertson: that are only known while people are on the server bobbertson: sfan5, will CSM allow me to have clients run the same httpfetch api thing that the server has access to? bobbertson: if so for sure i'll just wait sfan5: that way I'm thinking the server invoke the media transfer via the usual ways (HTTP included) and the CSM code gets a notification once it's done sfan5: also it's not clear how exactly CSM is going to work so you probably don't want to wait for it specing: sfan5: isn't there already a dynamic download call? specing: I don't think giving CSMs the ability to fetch from random websites is ok sfan5: true, and I wasn't suggesting that bobbertson: Ya I don't think that CSM will allow me to do what i want really bobbertson: Might have to make the change myself if I want it in there bobbertson: specing, are you referring to dynamic_add_media or something else? specing: bobbertson: no idea what it's called specing: bobbertson: What is this youtube_queue mod? specing: sounds a bit illegal bobbertson: meh kinda bobbertson: im just using it for my private server bobbertson: lets users queue search terms to youtube and then youtube-dl downloads the video, extracts it to just an ogg file then pushes it out to everyone to listen to in sync bobbertson: it's not really illegal inherently specing: bobbertson: well, do you have distribution rights to the audio? specing: if not, you are violating copyright kb1000: i dont think it being a private server matters much there 05e​xe_virus: Technically it would be okay if you only streamed it 05e​xe_virus: I.e. once per search 05e​xe_virus: Of course that probably violates YouTube's license in some way, though it does help with the copyright issues specing: no, you still have no distribution rights specing: the only legal way would be to open a small youtube window in minetest with all the ads and annoying bits specing: what you can legally do is find music in public domain and stream that specing: also some jurisdictions don't recognise public domain, so... specing: writing the mod is the easy part Sires: Hello could someone help me creating a server with ipv6? do I just check "ipv6_server" and "enable_ipv6"? heavygale: yes Sires: hmm heavygale: not? :D Sires: I tried it and my friend couldn't connect Sires: ? heavygale: how did he try to connect Sires: he just put my ipv6 in the ip field, port in port field, his name in name field, password in password field and hit connect heavygale: should work Sires: weird Sires: it just timed out for him Sires: could you try connecting to my server just to test? heavygale: sure heavygale: maybe a firewall issue ? Sires: one sec Sires: 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd Sires: port 30000 Sires: not sure heavygale: times out for me too Sires: weird heavygale: do you run the server locally on your home comuter? Sires: yes heavygale: did you open the firewall in your router for 30000 and this address? Sires: uuh didn't know I had to do this heavygale: i guess so Sires: Tho I tested a simple chat room(made in python) with the same person and it worked Sires: it was in port 1234 heavygale: hmm Sires: perhaps if I try changing to 1234 it might work? heavygale: :D try Sires: k one sec heavygale: or try to connect to your server with a second client locally, to check if it listens on v6 Sires: it did work locally Sires: before Sires: ok I reopened in port 1234 heavygale: no change for me ^^ Sires: meh Sires: hmm Sires: I'm opening it with the "host server" option Sires: perhaps if I do a dedicated server it might work? heavygale: if you can with a diffrent client locally it should beall fine specing: Ah, the long lost art of port forwarding Sires: I read I was not supposed to have to port forward when using ipv6 specing: indeed Sires: and I can't port forward in ipv4 because of my ISP specing: but NATing is good for security anyway heavygale: it'sno forwarding as there's no nat in v6, but opening a firewall is mostly still requiered specing: another layer of filtering out bad stuff heavygale: sure and always use a vpn, rigt? Oo Sires: ok so I'm at "NAT -- Virtual Servers Setup" in my router Sires: port 30000 open Sires: is that where I should do it? Sires: also I opened the server by the terminal if anyone wanna test specing: heavygale: a normal VPN only helps if you ISP is malicious specing: heavygale: really helpful are multihop VPNs (a la tor) heavygale: what for? there's https :) specing: heavygale: hiding metadata Sires: https://imgur.com/TAlkfFG heavygale: looks like v4 only Sires: am I doing this right? heavygale: (as there' s no nat for v6 ^^) Sires: mm specing: there is nat for v6 Sires: heavygale told me to open port in firewall or smth so what am I supposed to do? heavygale: in home routers? big_caballito[m]: you need to allow incoming traffic on port 30000 or whatever Sires: what I showed in my screenshot isn't doing that? heavygale: your screenshot only states v4 addresses Sires: ooh I think I found smth Sires: one sec Sires: here: https://imgur.com/o3LXuCs Sires: does that look what I need to use? Sires: welp gonna try it anyways heavygale: what router is that Sires: model? heavygale: or compand? ^^ sfan5: by the way MinetestBot can test reachability for you sfan5: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:30000 seems to be down Sires: humax hgb10r-02 I think Sires: the server is at port 1234 sfan5: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd 1234 MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:1234 seems to be down sfan5: how does your minetest.conf look like? Sires: pretty default I think, except for ipv6 stuff enable Sires: enabled* Sires: you want to see the entire thing? sfan5: yeah just to make sure Sires: k Sires: one sec big_caballito[m]: I think it's probably a firewall issue Sires: https://termbin.com/vupa sfan5: yeah that looks correct sfan5: are you running the server from the menu or commandline? big_caballito[m]: is port 1234 forwarded? Sires: I tried both Sires: 1234 I think not heavygale: https://www.net.com.br/documento/2018/09/12/user-manual-for-hgb10r-02-1374091901758.pdf can't find any firewall stuff,..only for blocking, not fire whitelisting? Sires: but 30000 didn't work either Sires: I just did 1234 because it worked with other application big_caballito[m]: you have to forward port 1234 then allow traffic for that port in your firewall sfan5: did it work over ipv4? did that other application use TCP? do you perhaps have a local firewall? Sires: but I tried forwarding port 30000 and didn't work Sires: Over ipv4 I can't do port forwarding anymore, changed router and it won't allow me to sfan5: and if you're running linux, please check using netstat -uln that minetest is listening big_caballito[m]: port forwarding is on your router, firewall is on you PC Sires: but I could do with ipv4 before changing router Sires: sfan5: it lists "udp6 0 0 :::1234 :::* " Sires: I guess thats minetest sfan5: should be, yeah Sires: lemme check firewall Sires: k I just stopped firewall sfan5: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd 1234 MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:1234 seems to be down Sires: I'll put the server at port 30000 Sires: I just turned it off Sires: k its on now Sires: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:30000 seems to be down Sires: asdfasdfas sfan5: hm Sires: disabled ipv6 firewall on router Fractalis: You need to find a way to port forward, all routers have a way to get in. Sires: do I have to restart router for it to work? sfan5: doubt it Sires: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:30000 is up (221ms) Sires: AWWWW Sires: YUSS big_caballito[m]: ysy!!!! Sires: anyone wanna join Fractalis: nice :) 10J​ordach: conglaturations Sires: I bugged minetest_game by putting animation_blend at 1 sec Sires: and watter has negative viscosity I think Sires: thanks all for the help big_caballito[m]: whats special about your server big_caballito[m]: ie why shoud i join Sires: nothing Sires: its just if you want big_caballito[m]: *should big_caballito[m]: cool big_caballito[m]: sfan5: do i have to do anything special to connect to ipv6? big_caballito[m]: server? sfan5: ipv6 is enabled by default on the client big_caballito[m]: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:30000 seems to be down big_caballito[m]: oh thats why specing: Why does localplayer:get_wield_index return a 0-indexed number? Wouldn't it make more sense to make CSM developer lives easier by making the number be 1-index? Sires: wait what Sires: we are playing big_caballito[m]: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:30000 is up (232ms) specing: (I'll put my question to -dev) Sires: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:30000 is up (221ms) Sires: just checking* big_caballito[m]: connection keeps timing out for me :/ big_caballito[m]: no i was just typing it wrong Sires: *closed it bobbertson: specing, you are right that it's not legal to let people use it for that bobbertson: but i mean there's nothing illegal about the mod itself lol bobbertson: just like when you get a torrent client there's nothing illegal about it Sires: !up 2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd MinetestBot: [2804:14d:880:9568:1012:45ee:249b:cbbd]:30000 is up (219ms) Krock: assuming MTB lives in Europe, your server is like in Chile or Australia Krock: or just super bad relay stations tango_: or it's using PTTH instead of FTTH tango_: (P for Pigeons) Follpvosten[m]: You mean IPoAC? tango_: Follpvosten[m]: well, the physical side of it, yes tango_: I just found this out on wikipedia: tango_: In September 2009, a South African IT company based in Durban pitted an 11-month-old bird armed with a data packed 4 GB memory stick against the ADSL service from the country's biggest Internet service provider, Telkom. The pigeon, Winston, took an hour and eight minutes to carry the data 80 km (50 miles). In all, the data transfer took two hours, six minutes, and fifty-seven seconds—the same amount of tango_: time it took to transfer 4% of the data over the ADSL tango_: the problem with IPoAC is the latency, but since we're seeing numbers in the 200s of ms, it might just as well be that Follpvosten[m]: Makes sense lol Krock: data thoughput is insane tango_: quoting good ol' Tanenbaum, «Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.» Krock: Tannenbaum? a pinetree? tango_: single n jonadab: It's spelled "Tanenbaum", but it's pronounced "minix". jonadab: HTH.HAND. Andrey01: appguru: your mod doesn`t work, it throws out to me "attempt to index global 'adv_weapons' (a nil value)" Andrey01: I can not see how you made the grappling hook :( bobbertson: hey sfan5 do you think it would be worth making a Client::handleCommand_MediaFetch type ordeal where dynamic_add_media has an optional second arg that is a bool as to whether to use a remote_media server to fetch from using an m_media_downloader or such? Or am I going down a rabbit hole that doesn't make sense? bobbertson: Asking you since you implemented the thing closest to what I think would be useful for transferring music files at runtime bobbertson: or sound files sfan5: how would the server know when the sound file is available for playback in that case? sfan5: also here's an easy optimization you can make specifically for your case since you're already editing the code: in Server::dynamicAddMedia() only send the packet over channel 0 bobbertson: i was thinking that handleCommand_MediaFetch would end with some sort of callback to the server saying it's done, but ya that is the biggest head scratch for me bobbertson: :o will that half the amount of data sent? bobbertson: ok ya i will make that optimization for my server bobbertson: but still think it would be nice to have the ability for getting clients to fetch from remote_media server sfan5: yes that'll halve it niwla23[m]: Would it be technically possible to make sth like bungeecord for minetest? Fractalis: AFAIK Strings and lines are still a issue with minetest engine, Fractalis: It would be a better question for #minetest-dev i think 10J​ordach: meanwhile i've been writing a lua transpiler that takes the pain away TableToo: hello TableToo: minetesters Fractalis: Hi minetester LOL rubenwardy: niwla23[m]: theoretically yes specing: Is there a food-rebalancing script out there? Something that would munch all the register_node.on_use/item_eat() calls and assign weights to crafting/furnacing/etc steps such that all foods fall between 1 and 20 stamina? mr_chubbz_: Hello 11J​onathon: Hi 09w​war: Hey specing: Is there a food-rebalancing script out there? Something that would munch all the register_node.on_use/item_eat() calls and assign weights to crafting/furnacing/etc steps such that all foods fall between 1 and 20 stamina? Elvano: A modding question: When registering a new node you can – within the node definition – specify drops based on what tool you used to break it. Is it also possible to specify this explicitly for using your bare hands? cheapie: Elvano: I *think* bare hands are a tool of ":". Elvano: Thank you, cheapie. I'll give that a try then. 11J​onathon: yes, the hand is ":" https://gitlab.com/4w/void/-/blob/master/mods/void_hand/init.lua#L4\ sfan5: technically ":" is how you register a hand, since items are usually enforced to start with the mod prefix sfan5: so the hand itself is called "" Elvano: The empty string seems to work for me. Thanks a lot. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Move Mapgen V7 river generation into the main generation loop (#10639) 13872dce5 https://git.io/JkgdJ (152020-11-20T16:11:19Z) Andrey01: can anybody help me with my mod please? specing: maybe Andrey01: ok, my mod registers a red laser segment as an entity. It is made for aligning a whole laser from those segments from some node to some point and I have a problem with their rotations Andrey01: I rotate an unit direction vector towards to that point and by means of vector.dir_to_rotation get a rotation of it Andrey01: however, here is not all so easy: that laser segment has a null rotation (towards to +Z) "actually" is not turned to that direction, it is turned under right angle Andrey01: that is, except me just pass a table to set_rotation() from dir_to_rotation I need to still rotate 90 degrees, but I don`t understand in which order I need to do it Andrey01: if I just imoplement 'rot.y+math.pi' it won`t turned in right direction Andrey01: so how would I need to implement correctly the turn? NetherEran: rot.y + math.pi is a 180 degree rotation, not 90 degree NetherEran: where do you get the direction unit vector from? Andrey01: Yes, I mistook, I meant math.pi/2. That unit dir is co-directional with a face direction of a node Andrey01: in my case Andrey01: just the segments rotate around Z (roll) by some reason, although they should rotate around X to look aligned Andrey01: * along X Andrey01: that is, around Z Andrey01: if I don`t add 90 degrees to y, the line will look like so: https://ibb.co/VjhpW7Z Andrey01: if I add, then so: https://ibb.co/rcrf0gh Andrey01: in second pic they dont like "connected", they actually should be turned along X axis Andrey01: does anybody know how to do rotations right in my case? luizrpgluiz: hi luizrpgluiz: [does anyone here know OldCoder? luizrpgluiz: I have this doubt because he told me that he was one of the official developers of Minetest Krock: your concerns were correct Krock: though he wrote Lua mods, if that counts as "developing of Minetest" Krock: You can look up the contributors here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/graphs/contributors, and also on the fork tree view (large!= sfan5: he has never contributed code to minetest or minetest_game sfan5: in addition to that I suggest you keep distance from him since he has a tendency to publicly post people's personal information and harass them over email and social media when he gets into disagreements tango_: wow such a nice fellow 04j​45: (sarcasm) tango_: I was hoping it wouldn't be necessary to specfiy it, but you do have a point, one never knows 04j​45: it is easier to tell when you are talking to someone face to face whether they are being sarcastic or not tango_: well, given the horrid nature of the person being described, one would be quite hard pressed to not consider it sarcam. on the other hand, given that shitty people like OldCoder exist, there might also be people who actually admire that kind of behavior, too blaise: tango_: sarcam? blaise: OOOhhhh, Scarcasm blaise: XD blaise: so they finely called OldCoder out on his bullhonkey, eh? bobbertson: for a moment i didn't realize i was in #minetest and i was confused why you were asking for diet advice Splyncryth: Hello everyone, the minetest fishing mod seems to be crashing on this line table.insert(minetest.registered_items["default:dirt"].drop.items, { rarity = 30, items = {"fishing:worm"} }) Splyncryth: Unfortunately I do not know enough about lua or minetest lua. Splyncryth: if I comment this line out everything works, but I lose the ability to get worms. Splyncryth: Maybe its an old syntax? Splyncryth: 2020-11-18 18:13:26: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Failed to load and run script from /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/fishing/init.lua: Splyncryth: 2020-11-18 18:13:26: ERROR[Main]: /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/fishing/baits.lua:8: attempt to index field 'drop' (a nil value) Splyncryth: 2020-11-18 18:13:26: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: Splyncryth: 2020-11-18 18:13:26: ERROR[Main]: /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/fishing/baits.lua:8: in main chunk Splyncryth: 2020-11-18 18:13:26: ERROR[Main]: [C]: in function 'dofile' Splyncryth: 2020-11-18 18:13:26: ERROR[Main]: /../fishing/init.lua:3: in main chunk Splyncryth: 2020-11-18 18:13:26: ERROR[Main]: Check debug.txt for details. Splyncryth: Thats the error I get when I uncomment bobbertson: well bobbertson: that means minetest.registered_items["default:dirt"].drop is nothing bobbertson: idk how to help beyond that but ya rubenwardy: get_node_drops rubenwardy: might be useful oobleck: Ah, a group where people actually talk. How relieving rubenwardy: *crickets* rubenwardy: *tumbleweed rolls past* bobbertson: now we are going to not talk because you said something about it oobleck: Well you've already far surpassed any other room, so rubenwardy: I like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsWr_JWTZss rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: No title found. rubenwardy: thanks MTB Splyncryth: bobbertson, would wrapping it in a if/then statement help it not crash? bobbertson: you could do if minetest.registered_items["default:dirt"].drop then blah, ya, but it wont execute * Splyncryth: shrugs bobbertson: i only just started working with lua so idk if im right about that but pretty sure thats how it is, thats how it works in javascript Splyncryth: yeah, its been ages since ive programmed Splyncryth: i was a big python and java person bobbertson: i imagine something with the .drop part changed? is it an old mod? bobbertson: you'll have to figure out how to get that same data with some other field or something Splyncryth: i took it from another minetest game pack bobbertson: i think minetest.get_node_drops("defualt:dirt", toolname) is what yo want like rubenwardy was saying bobbertson: if you go into minetest-5.3.0-win64 (or whatever your thing is) then docs, then open lua_api.txt that has all the documentation for the fields and functions Splyncryth Splyncryth: onice bobbertson: i think minetest.get_node_drops is what you need bobbertson: toolname can be nil apparently tango_: am I missing the copper because I'm colorblind or there's really 2x the tin ore blocks than copper ore blocks? bobbertson_: hey, can i issue client side commands from a server mod? bobbertson_: i want to get client to download music files from server because dynamic_add_media i'm still getting a lag issue bobbertson_: trying to look into client side mods but i can't find much detail about them specing: bobbertson_: there's a preview CSM in clientmods/ in repo specing: I think you could send the list of urls via modchannels, but idk if you are allowed to download content from CSMs specing: they are quite restricted bobbertson_: ya that's fair bobbertson_: ideally dynamic_add_media would use the remote_media server or there would be another function that does similar with remote_media server bobbertson_: trying to figure out a work around bobbertson_: remote_media is really only used when loading into a server, ya? specing: no idea there specing: I have a lot of experience writing CSMs, but from the client-side automation perspective bobbertson_: ya my youtube_queue thing is kinda obscure/not many people would care to have it i think bobbertson_: at least there is dynamic_add_media at all Guest76735: hi bobbertson_: hey Guest76735: Is it a good idea to animate rigged models through lua code instead of having the animations made in blender? sfan5: that'd be laggy and have high overhead Andrey: can anybody explain me, does that passed rotation table in set_rotation() set RELATIVELY to the local axises of the object or to the world coordinate axises? Andrey: does the rotation of an object happen relatively to its local or global axises? I just don`t understand Andrey: also lua_api.txt doesn`t say anything about it NetherEran: set_rotation is relative to the global axises Andrey: ok, thanks for clarification NetherEran: but the rotation is around the entity's positon point if that wasn't clear Andrey: I think it would be ok to have also a method that would set relatively to local axises, more comfortable in some cases IMO Andrey: yes, I know about it NetherEran: there are some functions in the global vector table that help with rotations Andrey: I know, I just say that method of rotation would be more comfortable because you could set rotations around certain axises, current set_rotation() requires to set around all three Andrey: by such way "resetting" again those of them that are not needed to be changed NetherEran: ye Andrey: is it nohow possible to set rotations in some own order, unlike XYZ default order? Andrey: just I need to use YXZ order hisforever: Hi I'd like to know how to make water still? I want to make a fish pond beside my house specing: what Emerald2: Make it all water source so there's no flowing. hisforever: ok Thanks 05e​xe_virus: Animated rigged models in lua with Luajit would only be about 30% slower than the current software animations in C 11G​reenXenith: If you could animate them clientside, perhaps 11G​reenXenith: When animated serverside they are not smooth at all specing: you could, with CSMs hisforever: Hi I just installed c_doors mod got error? https://pastebin.com/u/hisforeverkid hisforever: bad link sorry I'll go redo it hisforever: ok this url is right https://pastebin.com/dvNpWHku systwi: hisforever: I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for/at, but it looks like you might have either too many mods or conflicting mods. systwi: I interpret "Number of registerable nodes (32768) exceeded" as meaning too many mods, but I might be wrong. systwi: And "Not registering alias, item with same name is already defined: vines:rope_block -> ropes:steel5rope_block" sounds like mods "vines" and "ropes" are conflicting. systwi: Could you try temporarily disabling all mods and slowly adding back each one to see where the errors occur? hisforever: Ok I'll do that tommrow Thankd Systwi , I might have gone over the mods specing: hahaha exceeded specing: what a node wastage, there's so much stuff that'd be better served with param2 specing: like crops, I mean wheat_1... wheat_8 come on... Swift110-mobile: hooray I might be able to install mintiest on macos Swift110-mobile: actually doing it now * Swift110-mobile: jumps for joy Swift110-mobile: installed via home-brew but it is not working at all SwissalpS: Swift110-mobile: use multiboot and install in linux :) systwi: Is there a way to adjust the render distance? Hawk777: There are keys for that. On my install R cycles through them. tango_: specing: do you want to help me redesign MTG's default so that it's more rational? bobbertson: hey bobbertson: does anyone know if there is a way to make dynamic_add_media use the remote_media server setting? bobbertson: I made my youtube_queue mod but using dynamic_add_media to all the players makes the server lag bobbertson: i have a static file server setup to serve the ogg's to clients but is it possible to make the client fetch from that instead of doing it over the UDP stuff bobbertson: "* Since media transferred this way does not use client caching or HTTP bobbertson: transfers, dynamic media should not be used with big files or performance bobbertson: will suffer." really need an alternative that DOES use http sfan5: like the docs say there is currently no way bobbertson: ok that's what i figured bobbertson: thank you bobbertson: do you think it would be possible to modify the behavior of dynamic_add_media to fetch from the remote_media server if it exists in config? bobbertson: (for the actual minetest core code) sfan5: possible, but it introduces the problem that the server doesn't know when the client actually has the file available bobbertson: ah good point bobbertson: trying to brainstorm hacks or something to make this work bobbertson: i mean it works it just introduces some lag on the client sfan5: CSM would solve this (the server can send code that handles media once it's available in whatever way needed) but that's not a thing yet bobbertson: huh bobbertson: i changed max_packets_per_iteration from 1024 to 10240 earlier and it seemed like it might have helped but just been an illusion now i changed it to 20480 and it seems to be good now besides the slightest stutter bobbertson: so if you are sending large files with dynamic_add_media pumping max_packets_per_iteration seems to largely solve the issue bobbertson: there's gotta be some consequence though luna_: We are playing minetest on the Debian Gaming Week now specing: luna_: cool, on which server? specing: luna_: how many of you are there? You could join #libregamenight specing: Why is Minetest LGPL? Is this explained anywhere? Calinou: specing: it was relicensed in mid-2012 because some developers wanted to license it commercially to proprietary developers Calinou: it never happened, though Calinou: I suppose it also allows for more leeway in mod licensing now specing: Errr, what? specing: In that case I'd expect GPL + commercial dual licensing with CLAs specing: not relicensing to LGPL specing: Calinou: what was the original license? Calinou: GPLv2 Calinou: (or GPLv2+, I forgot) specing: Also, what is the situation with multicraft? I heard people say that it was closed-source, but I see someone regularly commits to multicraft repo on github sfan5: it's open-source specing: sfan5: how did the fork come to be? Swift110-mobile: Luna no one is in that channel sfan5: multicraft is supposed to provide an out-of-the-box minecraft-like experience with custom UI (also mobile support specifically) sfan5: so it's obvious that it has to be a fork tango_: I thought that was mineclone? sfan5: mineclone is a game for the minetest game, multicraft is a game (in the general sense) based on the minetest engine tango_: ah Andrey01: I`d like to clarify about the rotation system of the objects: e.g. if I rotate an object around Y axis, will its local system (local axises) be also rotated? bobbertson: Can I upload a mod to the content DB site/forums if it has a component that sits outside minetest? bobbertson: My youtube_queue mod has a flask python server component for downloading youtube songs since I didn't know how to do youtube-dl from lua purely lol bobbertson: I'm assuming it's ok because there's a discord relay mod that has a java component Andrey01: or do objects not have a local rotations, but only global? Krock: you can request an insecure env which then allows you to use os.execute rubenwardy: Yeah rubenwardy: Also, I haven't really decided what to do with complex mods in cdb systwi: Thanks Hawk777 hisforever: Hi I have a Quick Question. I can't seem to put down food items, if I can what do I need to do? SwissalpS: those that can be placed, need a solid surface under them. You place them like any other node. SwissalpS: most can't afaik hisforever: ok Thanks Splyncryth: Hello, for some reason I cant craft mushroom soup https://i.imgur.com/U8yWngB.png Does anyone have an idea why? Sires: Not sure. Try checking the craftguide Splyncryth: Oh I know why, the soup is looking for a different kind of wooden bowl Splyncryth: that wooden bowl is not the wooden bowl linked to the soup Splyncryth: blarg now I need to track everything down Splyncryth: Farming, how do you harvest a crop? How do I know when its time to harvest a crop? Emerald2: Just dig it with your hand, or a sword is faster. If you have the farming mod with the mithril scythe you can use that too. Emerald2: Different crops have different growth levels before they're fully grown. Emerald2: If you know what it looks like when fully grown that helps, or if you have debug info up and you know what stage of growth is full growth. Emerald2: I was looking at ethereal code earlier and farming:bowl should override the ethereal wooden bowl, btw. * Splyncryth: shrugs I cant make mushroom soup Splyncryth: idk why Splyncryth: the mushroom soup bowl picture is different from the farming bowl picture Splyncryth: i thought that was the reason why Emerald2: The recipe doesn't take anything in the bowl group? Splyncryth: https://i.imgur.com/U8yWngB.png Emerald2: I play on a server with farming_redo and ethereal, I'll see if I have enough mushrooms to make the soup. The farming redo bowl seems to have overriden the ethereal bowl though. Emerald2: Works with the farming bowl. Can't test the ethereal bowl because I can't make it. Splyncryth: I found a dungeon with a huge empty room. Don't dungeons always have monsters in them? Emerald2: By default, no. Mods can add some in though. systwi: Splyncryth: Did you find a chest with items in it? Splyncryth: yes systwi: I hope I didn't spoil anything saying that :-/ systwi: Ah ok cool specing: NetherEran: you are not responding to issues :( specing: hence me asking if you still use notabug NetherEran: aah, I wasn't checking those, sorry specing: Is there a food-rebalancing script out there? Something that would munch all the register_node.on_use/item_eat() calls and assign weights to crafting/furnacing/etc steps such that all foods fall between 1 and 20 stamina? specing: I guess I should override item_eat to also record stuff into a global list, and then process that list after loading NetherEran: specing: i responded to the issues finally :) Corey[m]: welp, got kicked for inactivity again, I think matrix is the one doing that perrier: Does a server only read config.lua on a mod like caverealms when it starts and you can't make changes afterwards or is there something particular about v6? sfan5: mods typically only read their config file at startup specing: Corey[m]: yes, you get kicked after a month Corey[m]: Maybe I should check in every once in awhile perrier: I switched to caverealms lite it doesn't use it's own mapgen now I have it up at -10 woo hoo! Splyncryth: Hello, for some reason when I hold a torch in hand it does not light up the area around me. It only lights up when I place it. perrier: you need weilded light mod. perrier: I set the upward limit for caverealms at -10 but I have decorations above ground, thoughts? Splyncryth: nothing called weilded light perrier: lol wielded light perrier: i before e except after c or when it spells a as in neighbor and sleigh MadKamel[m]: English makes me cry perrier: pg.4 tango_: does the minetest engine (and thus, I assume, irrlicht) support VR displays? tango_: (or other forms of 3D like the alternating eye thing) rubenwardy: Yes, but not very well rubenwardy: The side by side mode is suitable for vr rubenwardy: But there's no control support and it's not automatic rubenwardy: Also, GUIs suck systwi_: Does anyone else have an issue with clicking items in the inventory screen? If I single click to pick up an item, and single click somewhere else to place it, it typically ends up switching the item selected with another one my cursor passes over. systwi: I have to click, wait a second, and then move and place it. systwi: I'm using 5.3.0 on macOS 10.13.6 perrier: I've had that happen before, you click one thing and it switches with another on the way to the grid. Not all the time though. perrier: I love having caverealms up at the surface it adds so much color and lighting. tango_: systwi: happens to me as well. apparently the buttonup doesn't get registered instantly, so you get a drag action instead systwi: Glad to know it's not just an issue on my end. tango_: systwi: I've seen someone else mention the bug here in irc too tango_: I don't know if there's a github bug for this though Splyncryth: for some reason I cant craft mushroom soup https://i.imgur.com/U8yWngB.png rimas: hi rimas: are there villagers in mineclone? perrier: I edited config.lua in caverealms to see if I can bring everything up higher. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Increase limit for simultaneous blocks sent per client and the meshge… 132f6393f https://git.io/JkcNw (152020-11-16T18:30:52Z) MadKamel[m]: Is there an official RPi build of Minetest 5.x? MadKamel[m]: For the Raspbian Operating System/RasPi computer specing: maybe you should ask that question to your OS vendor? sfan5: no official one but from what I heard the one in the repositories works MadKamel[m]: Ok, I'll check that out MadKamel[m]: thanks sfan5: if anything doesn't seem to work don't hesitate to ask here Sires: Hello heavygale: huhu Sires: Is there any function to simulate as if a player dug a node? Sires: there is minetest.dig node but it doesn't make it as if an specific player dug it Sires: afail Sires: afaik tango_: 5.4 performance seems to be significantly better than 5.3 tango_: but sadly I'm still seeing the spikes Pie-jacker875: too lazy to answer my own question by reading the lua. do trees grow below y=0?' specing: Pie-jacker875: they do Pie-jacker875: yay Pie-jacker875: less work for me to do then. lol. specing: Pie-jacker875: how is your server going? specing: is it listed yet or still building up? Pie-jacker875: oh, valhalla? specing: yes Pie-jacker875: completely empty lol Pie-jacker875: just me specing: Why not join alias's or blocky? Pie-jacker875: I'm having fun specing: It's more fun to have fun in a group of people having fun! Pie-jacker875: well I'm gonna keep building stuff perrier: Can I telnet or ssh in to my server? perrier: Or is there a remote admin tool? perrier: I saw some things involving irc commands but havn't tried it yet. Derek88: hi tango_: I was wondering: how good is the UI code separation in the client? as in: if someone wanted to write a different “frontend” for (a subset of features of) the client, using e.g. a different toolkit or even a completely different way to represent data (rogue-style 2D overhead or whatever) tango_: how much code could they share? is there a clear separation, some kind of MVC or similar pattern, or is it more of a mishmash? tango_: or maybe I should ask the question in the forum heavygale: in which case is player:get_velocity() = nil? my server is running 5.3.0 and bed kills the server https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/beds/functions.lua#L94 specing: tango_: it's formspecs all the way down specing: Any tips on how to implement movement in CSMs? I guess setPlayerControl would be overriden fast through input processing, perhaps I should fake key presses? (and trap relevant ones while CSM is doing its thing?) tango_: specing: even the 3D scene rendering? 8-D tango_: I should really read up on formspecs, see if they can be made mobile-friendly specing: tango_: doc/lua_api.txt has a lengthy description Krock: heavygale: when the player left pallsld: Good morning pallsld: I have been playing for awhile and complie the most recent version as I play Krock: good evening pallsld: I just upgraded my computer and was wondering if there are optimized flags I should know about to take advantage of my hardware heavygale: Krock: i left because server crashed^^ heavygale: in laying down pallsld: Im reading trhrough the documentation but though somebody here might have some tips Krock: heavygale: update minetest_game, perhaps? heavygale: is latest git version Krock: pallsld: the compiler should do the necessary optimizations Krock: heavygale: if it's MTG, please report it to the git repo Krock: otherwise to the affected mod pallsld: Bummer heavygale: ok, i'll keep an eye on it pallsld: I was hoping to get an increase on render distance Krock: pallsld: well sure, you can tweak the compiler options but that won't make much of a difference pallsld: I see pallsld: thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! tango_: are there profiler runs of the minetest client to see where the bottleneck for the rendering is? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix falling image of torchlike if paramtype2="none" (#10612) 13ee1853e https://git.io/JkZcz (152020-11-15T16:37:09Z) tango_: or is it somewhere deep inside irrlicht? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Auto build client appimage (#10561) 13a16e412 https://git.io/JkZcA (152020-11-15T16:38:04Z) Krock: F5 and F6 pallsld: oh nice Krock: the rendering bottleneck are batch-drawn images (e.g. fonts) and how Minetest feeds the GPU with data. Minetest does too much work on PU Krock: *CPU pallsld: Ive noticed taht. I run it with top open sometimes and have seen mintest hit 200% Krock: perhaps also an Irrlicht limitation because OpenGL 1.4 is already enough to play the game. I don't think it makes use of newer features pallsld: thats when Im speeding through the air though loading the map as fast as i can Krock: luckily for you, map loading and generating is a separate thread, hence not influencing rendering a lot pallsld: interesting Krock: tango_: if you want to check whether the GPU is your bottleneck, place a few of homedecor's bathtubs in your world. those contain a few hundred vertices pallsld: I will def do taht. I am doinga pull and recompile right now. I just realized I was using the binary from my last PC pallsld: just moved the drive yesterday pallsld: its much faster but I want to see how far i can push it tango_: Krock: the problem I'm seeing is very odd. I'm getting periodic lag spikes that make the game momentarily unplayable (single-digit FPS if not even SPF) and then drops back to normal Krock: pallsld: are you a low-spec gamer or just trying to maximise it due to genral interest? tango_: I've been trying to understand better when/where it happens, without much luck pallsld: no the opposite. I overbuilt a PC bc it was time for an upgrade and I do them scarcely so I want to see how far it can go Krock: for former I could provide you some links to trim Minetest for gaining a few extra fps on 2008 integrated graphics pallsld: but it is due to interest and like of the game pallsld: been playing mineteest since 4.15 tango_: Krock: so now I'm actually pondering about trying to go through some callgrind to find where these spikes are happening tango_: but maybe callgrind would be too much tango_: Krock: f5 and f6 do show me when this happens (as if the LAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAG wasn't enough), but not WHY tango_: i.e. where time is being lost tango_: ultimately it might even just be a driver issue tango_: but I'm not even sure how to determine that tango_: (not looking forward at a rollback of the kernel, drm and mesa) Splyncryth: Hello Splyncryth: I installed minetest through Ubuntu repo. What is the file structure of minetest and what folder do I install mod packs? Splyncryth: ALso the mod packs downloaded from the repo, where are they located? sfan5: from the repo probably in /usr/share/minetest sfan5: the local data folder is ~/.minetest Splyncryth: so if I need to modify the minetest.conf for a local game it would be in ~/.minetest ? Splyncryth: if I need to turn on mods in a local game i would modify the ~/.minetest minetest.conf file? sfan5: better do that from the menu FrostRanger[m]: Splyncryth: you are better off installing mods either manually or from the content db Sires: Hello Sires: I'm trying to make a decent biome Sires: but for some reason grass spawns underwater Sires: https://imgur.com/a/3y36sIl Sires: The code is: Sires: one sec.. Sires: https://termbin.com/c9xe Sires: Thats the code Sires: btw I'm using v7 mapgen tango_: there we go. standard drawtim <30ms, spike to 240ms tango_: wth tango_: without anything special going on, that I could see tango_: home server, I'm the only client tango_: that aside, I just found out that rails need to lie on something, they can't be freestanding tango_: anybody wants to comment on their preferred support, when buiding bridges or something? tango_: I mean, conceptually you'd want gravel for the ballast, wouldn't you? Hawk777: That would be realistic on land. I don’t think gravel ballast is usually used on bridges though; aren’t the ties/sleepers usually mounted directly to the concrete bridge structure? Hawk777: (or metal bridge structure, depending on the bridge) tango_: Hawk777: good point tango_: so for the bridge a slap of wood or cobblestone would be conceptually better tango_: a slab, even Hawk777: Yeah… of course rails have to be in their own node, so the best look might come from an upper-half slab, if you’ve got something that provides those. Hawk777: I suppose for a higher-tech look, again if you have the items available (and resources to burn), something like the upper half of an iron storage block. tango_: I'd rather not waste iron, but I'm drowning in cobblestone, so Hawk777: Might want to compare the look of cobble versus stone. Cobblestone for a railway bridge sounds a bit weird to me, but smooth stone would look quite like concrete. Hawk777: Might be OK though. cheapie: tango_: I don't really play MT any more but was usually on more heavily-modded servers when I did, and it was pretty much universally concrete for bridges there. cheapie: (both road and rail) Splyncryth: Is there a way to enable mini map in single player mode without crafting a map? specing: give yourself the minimap priv specing: or recompile minetest Splyncryth: hwo do I give myself the minimap priv? sfan5: I don't think minetest_game has a minimap privilege sfan5: either way the only solution I can think of is to remove the "map" mod from games/minetest_game/mods/ sfan5: only easy solution* Splyncryth: That worked! Splyncryth: is there a way to get a bigger map? Splyncryth: like a map of everything ive discovered? specing: Splyncryth: there's a tool called minetestmapper, that generates an image Splyncryth: yeah, I was thinking of a map that I can mark Splyncryth: place marks showing unique points Splyncryth: so I can mark a dungeon in game, then go back to it latter Splyncryth: etc... specing: it's not a map, but there's a CSM that lets you place marks Splyncryth: know whats it called? specing: advmarker or something tango_: now this is curious, when the drawtime peaks, the CPU usages goes DOWN tango_: so I'm guessing that the issue isn't minetest-side tango_: another interesting thing, although potentially not relevant: trying to run minetest under apitrace gives warnings about gl{Color,Normal,TexCoord,Vertex}Pointer needing to be faked due to them pointing to user memory tango_: I'm guessing this might be an irrlicht limitation tango_: (I mean that fact that it doesn't use BOs) specing: tango_: gpu bottleneck? tango_: specing: no frigging idea yet tango_: I only know that I get spikes where the drawtime is an order of magnitude higher than usual tango_: then it drops back to normal tango_: then after a few seconds again goes crazy high tango_: it might just be some driver shit, but even with apitrace I can't reasonably see where the problem is tango_: the fact that irrlicht uses old opengl doesn't help specing: NetherEran: do you still use Notabug? NetherEran: yes why? ghoti: Hi all. I have some unknown nodes in the ground from rendering before I removed some mods. Without reinstalling all the mods, is there any way I can find out what the unknown nodes are supposed to be, without reinstalling mods I almost certainly don't want? Their previous names no longer show up in debug mode. SoylentCow: you should be able to, theoretically, find their names, because if you would reinstal the mod, they would come back. but i suppose if you don't want to reinstall the mod, SoylentCow: you may have to install an inspector mod of some kind SoylentCow: perhaps worldedit inspector can do this, i simply don't know, but it seems like something very doable Follpvosten[m]: ...when you click on them, the chat will tell you like "unknown node mod:node" in red text Follpvosten[m]: Left click that is bobbertson: hey there bobbertson: So I'm writing a mod to let users queue youtube songs that utilizes a youtube-dl python component to get songs and then sends it via minetest.dynamic_add_media, but I'm really struggling with setting up a socket from the minetest mod to the python component to communicate due to unfamiliarity with lua and the sandbox sort of secure environment where it doesn't want me to be able to acquire luasocket, can anyone help? bobbertson: If anyone even uses this channel that is Hawk777: I’m not super-familiar with Minetest modding, but wouldn’t it make sense to just make your mod non-secure so it must not run in the sandbox? After all, if your users already trust you enough to run your separate Python code, which can do anything it wants, then the Lua sandbox isn’t really accomplishing anything. bobbertson: i did do that bobbertson: but i'm quite lost still lol bobbertson: basically how to run functions AFTER init so for example users can do /queue_song search_term_here and it would have to use the socket to send that out to the python component bobbertson: past init bobbertson: it's mostly just me being unfamiliar with lua i guess Hawk777: I think you need minetest.register_chatcommand. bobbertson: ya i got that part down bobbertson: but idk how i can possibly use the socket i setup in init bobbertson: later on bobbertson: like a global or something Hawk777: Oh. Ugly, but put it in a global variable? bobbertson: can functions be global? Hawk777: Well, they are by default, but I don’t think that’s quite what you want. Hawk777: It’s the socket that you need to hang onto, not some function. Hawk777: If your init function and your chatcommand function are in the same .lua file, then pretty sure you should just be able to assign to a variable in the init function and use the value later in the chatcommand function. Hawk777: As long as you don’t use “local” inside the init function, you get a global variable. bobbertson: how am i even supposed to require say luasocket within a minetest mod bobbertson: i don't think i'm doing it right Hawk777: Oh, I thought you had already managed to create a socket but were having trouble passing it from an init function to a chatcommand function. bobbertson: idk i keep messing around with stuff bobbertson: i have no idea what i'm doing tbh Hawk777: I don’t think you’re going to be able to use Luasocket from a Minetest mod. bobbertson: i'm getting a complaint about the socket module not being found but 'lua -l socket' works from cmd bobbertson: adv_chat and the irc mod do it bobbertson: with luasocket Hawk777: Oh. Then… copy how they do it? bobbertson: im trying to understand how adv_chat does it bobbertson: pcall(function() socket = env.require"socket" end) bobbertson: build_bridge = (socket and build_socket_bridge) or build_file_bridge bobbertson: how else could i do something with a socket? bobbertson: would be nice if there was a socket API like there is an HTTP one Hawk777: Huh, funny you should mention that. Have you considered having your Python code listen on a port for HTTP requests? It’s a bit icky, but it might be easier. bobbertson: ya thought about it bobbertson: want to do that as a last resort bobbertson: because would have to poll it and stuff Hawk777: So what is failing with your code right now? bobbertson: "..\minetest-5.3.0-win64\bin\..\mods\youtube_queue\init.lua:9: module 'socket' not found:" Hawk777: Can you pastebin your code? bobbertson: mhm bobbertson: beware its a huge mess because im really messing around Hawk777: Oh, also, adv_chat has a backup, from looking at its source, it doesn’t appear to *require* luasocket, it can also use files. Hawk777: So are you certain that your adv_chat install is really using sockets? bobbertson: https://pastebin.com/3vE21aXn bobbertson: possibly not lol i haven't really gotten it to work at all for the bridge part bobbertson: but didn't need it bobbertson: im starting to think the IRC mod doesn't use it at all because it says you need luasocket but the code doesn't seem to reference it at all rip bobbertson: if nobody has any ideas ill just switch over to using the HTTP stuff Hawk777: On the IRC mod, everything that uses sockets is in the submodule. Hawk777: That may be why you can’t find it, if you didn’t get the submodule. bobbertson: ah you are correct Hawk777: You could also just use files. bobbertson: didn't notice it had a submodule bobbertson: ya i was thinking of just reading from the chat log locally bobbertson: and doing things that way bobbertson: since the youtube-dl python part is made to run on the same server Hawk777: Oh yeah, if the chat is logged, Python code could just watch that log file. Hawk777: I was really meaning you could have your mod write commands into a file and then Python watch for that file to be created and execute the commands—use files as a communication mechanism. Hawk777: The “good” way would be to use inotify (or whatever the equivalent is in Windows if you care about that, there might be some cross-platform Python library for it); the quick-and-dirty way would just be to sit in a loop doing sleep(1) and then check if the file exists. bobbertson: do you know how to enable chat logs? bobbertson: i thought it already did it to a file but i guess not bobbertson: actually, shoot bobbertson: id still have to poll the python bit to get the new songs queued and stuff bobbertson: ill just do HTTP api bobbertson: seems like i cant use request_http_api() outside init too? bobbertson: i think i'm getting it figured out bobbertson: yesssssss i got a basic thing working finally bobbertson: thanks for the help Hawk777 :D Andrey01: I just want to clarify, is 'X' axis pitch or roll? The lua_api.txt says pitch, however, when I try to rotate an object around X, it starts rotating around its longitudial axis and this is actually roll vice versa, not pitch Andrey01: is this really mistake in the doc? hisforever: Hi is there a way to get rid of dark places on land? I've tried world edit and it dosen't work? tango_: what are dark places? hisforever: dark patches on buildings and land hisforever: I think there is an app to help correct lighting Krock_: !mod fixlight MinetestBot: Krock_: There are no results for this query :( Krock_: worldedit //fixlight perhaps hisforever: thanks Krock This seemed to work //pos1 set //pos2 then //set air that took all the dark patches Krock_: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Andrey01: I want to clarify, does anybody know from which global half-axis does object yaw get counted off? Andrey01: perhaps from +Z? Krock_: Andrey01: see graphics here https://dev.minetest.net/Player Krock_: Z towards -X Andrey01: Also other question: in which sequence does set_rotation() implement rotations around three axises? ZXY or anyhow else? Krock_: X Y Z Krock_: "* `rot` is a vector (radians). X is pitch (elevation), Y is yaw (heading) and Z is roll (bank)." Andrey01: Krock, I have still question: if the coords of two vectors are known and they starts from some point, I can know angle between them without problems by means of vector.angle, but how do I get rotation vector? Krock_: same as vector.angle no? Andrey01: no, this no, rotation vector in radians Krock_: x = / math.pi * 180. same for y and z Krock_: * x = x / math.pi * 180 Andrey01: hmm Krock_: converts it to degrees Krock_: and if you want to rotate a vector, check those: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3156-L3168 Andrey01: Lua has already embedded math.deg() :p Krock_: well then, it's the same Andrey01: so it is unncessary to convert it by hand Andrey01: 'x =/' is equivalent to 'x = x /' as in c++? Krock_: C/C++ and C# are 'x /= n' Andrey01: what does '* x' mean also? Krock: example? Andrey01: I don`t understand what you wrote in the beginning: "x = / math.pi * 180 ..." Krock: the asterisk (*) is a correction mark Krock: instead of "x = / math.pi * 180" I actually meant "x = x / math.pi * 180" Andrey01: 'math.pi * 180' is this converting to degrees, yes? Krock: no, 1 / math.pi * 180 is Andrey01: thanks, in any case Sires: Hello any good tips on creating textures? I suck at that Sires: wai Sires: is this a proper grass texture: https://imgur.com/WzeDZ6E Sires: one sec wrong pic Sires: Here: https://imgur.com/undefined Sires: wait what Sires: https://imgur.com/a/PCT0oRt Sires: this one, this last one, does this grass look ok sfan5: it's a bit very green sfan5: but that depends on what kind of grass it's supposed to look like Sires: hmm Sires: I should be able to just apply some filter to make it less green I guess Sires: https://imgur.com/undefined Sires: damn Sires: one sec Sires: https://imgur.com/a/p3Qbrwc Sires: tried making a bit less green, idk if it worked Sires: https://imgur.com/a/hjWzmB9 Sires: yet another attempt adfeno: Hi, what is the procedure to “unexplore” parts of the world, so that they can regenerate ? Which level database type allows for this cleanup (including disk space cleanup) ? Krock: there's a script that deletes entries from the sqlite3 database. dunno whether it also supports other backends Sires: I'm not sure if it frees space but take a look at: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5029 adfeno: Truth is that for smail servers, to avoid the file getting bigger, it would be good to have a command that the admin could use (even if that would require manual insertion of coordinates) adfeno: I know that there is /deleteblocks but last time I checked it didn't make the file smaller. sfan5: sqlite files do not automatically get smaller unless you run "VACUUM" on them while the server is off adfeno: Hm, I see… Thank you for this infomration :) specing: Any tips on how to implement movement in CSMs? I guess setPlayerControl would be overriden fast through input processing, perhaps I should fake key presses? (and trap relevant ones while CSM is doing its thing?) cheapie: adfeno: sqlite does have an auto-vacuum option, but I can't imagine the performance would be all that great: https://www.sqlite.org/pragma.html#pragma_auto_vacuum adfeno: cheapie: Ah I see. adfeno: Thank you all for the information. :) ghoti: Trying to figure out some bot programming with basic_robots. I put the following into a spawned bot... http://sprunge.us/K2VbfE It said "Done", but it didn't move or place. What am I missing? NetherEran: Hello, is anyone else unable to get into 3rd person mode by pressing F7? NetherEran: seems to be broken for me on 5.3.0 and the most recent commit sfan5: they key was changed to C sfan5: (yes that's stupid) sfan5: the* NetherEran: aah thanks :) CWz: Can't compile: *** No rule to make target '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libXext.so' sfan5: make clean && make CWz: Still getting the same error sfan5: did cmake reconfigure when you ran that? CWz: I think so. is the X supposed to be capitalized? sfan5: yes sfan5: does that file exist? tango_: CWz: libXext is part of the Xorg client libraries tango_: on debian you need the libxext-dev package tango_: other distros will have something similar tango_: it's curious that cmake didn't notice its absence though? CWz: Yes, but not the exact name. libXext.so.6 libXext.so.6.4.0 CWz: nvm, all is well, just had to delete and recreate the _build directory CWz: Thanks sfan5: hm sfan5: my suggestion with make clean was supposed to have the same effect sfan5: but looks like that didn't work tango_: in my experience make clean doesn't reset the cmake dependencies Quiark: use Nix package manager Quiark: I use it on macOS, fixed the minetest formula there hisforever: Hi I'd like some help with the mod pack techpack I can't get it in game. Its in my mods folder? here is a part of the debug page https://pastebin.com/B3mRmud1 NetherEran: do you have any mods in your mod folder that techpack also contains? NetherEran: because having the same mod twice confuses minetest hisforever: yes all of the mods are there hisforever: so I might have 2 of them right? hisforever: brb hisforever: there no dduplicates NetherEran: the log you linked tells you to choose a name, sounds like you clicked on 'host server' by accident. hisforever: humm I only paly on this computr hisforever: thanks for your hlp hisforever: help specing: hisforever: join blocky survival hisforever: ok do I go to join gane tab? specing: hisforever: yes specing: hisforever: blocky survival and aurelium are the only two servers with techpack, and the latter has no players hisforever: I'm in blocky's server noe hisforever: now hisforever: sorry my typing is terrable lol specing: Is core.register_on_formspec_input(function(formname, fields) supposed to work in 5.3.0? specing: I have a print there, but nothing gets printed when I click a button on server sfan5: I don't see this function in lua_api.txt sfan5: oh, CSM tango_: is there a camera switch that gives you a 2D overhead view or something close to that? specing: sfan5: yes, CSM specing: sfan5: it doesen't look like any CSM restrictions are in play here, either sfan5: giving a quick look into the code it only works on locally shown formspecs specing: sfan5: meaning? specing: The formspec is shown to me, and I click a button sfan5: it only works if you called minetest.show_formspec from your CSM before specing: I see specing: Hmm specing: Actually, I don't really need this, I need a way to interact with server formspecs, and I probably don't even need receivefields functionality specing: just send, and perhaps a way to parse received formspec, if that is even necessary MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Move player model sitting and laying positions to above the ground (#… 132e7b509 https://git.io/JkOIX (152020-11-13T18:14:25Z) specing: Well, it'd still be nice to know what gets sent on manual use, to have an easier time automating it specing: I guess I'll make Client::sendNodemetaFields and the other one call CSM onsendfields or something sfan5: correct but minetest has string.split Andrey01: Hello Andrey01: Does anybody know vector.angle outputs an absolute angle or it takes into account still sign? Andrey01: Just I need to know also a sign of an angle between vectors to know an orientation of the rotation jonadab: If you ask for the measure of the angle between two vectors, and the first one is at a greater angle than the second, it had _better_ give you a negative answer, otherwise somebody flunks math forever. Andrey01: jonadab: what do you mean by "negative answer"? jonadab: An answer that is a negative number. jonadab: If you're going from A to B, and A is greater than B, you're going backwards/down. Flitzpiepe: hello everyone MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Increase default emerge queue limits and limit enqueue requests for a… 13be8d1d2 https://git.io/JkqDP (152020-11-12T17:04:10Z) MadKamel[m]: 👏 rubenwardy: what is down? rubenwardy: The angle between two vectors is the angle on the common plane between the two vectors MadKamel[m]: Yeah, and down would be a static directional somewhere on said plane MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "Replace MyEventReceiver KeyList with std::unordered_set" (#10… 1368139a2 https://git.io/Jkq5s (152020-11-12T18:16:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: PlayerSAO: Run on_player_hpchange raw change values (#10478) 13adffef2 https://git.io/Jkq5G (152020-11-12T18:15:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04red-001 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix warnings about an unused variables and implicit conversion (#10586) 138eb2cba https://git.io/Jkmew (152020-11-12T20:05:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: serverpackethandler: Minor log message fixes 13ad58ece https://git.io/JkmvC (152020-11-12T20:08:26Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Copy position for can_dig 1361bbdd6 https://git.io/JkmvW (152020-11-12T20:08:26Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix player sprite visibility in first person 13b504a1a https://git.io/Jkmvl (152020-11-12T20:08:26Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix overloaded virtual warnings with get/setAttachment() 13c441baa https://git.io/Jkmv8 (152020-11-12T20:08:26Z) jaden: hey, would appreciate if someone could help me; how would i go around adding a new group in a default craft item via my mod? i've triedminetest.registered_craftitems["default:stick"].groups.stick_like = 1 with no luck xebedee: !up 85.203.34.115 40004 MinetestBot: 85.203.34.115:40004 seems to be down ramirez: hi specing: Can I see Lua memory usage somewhere? specing: F5 doesen't show it? specing: (for client-side modding) tango_: hm I'm seeing strange issue with sudden lower fps and massive stuttering tango_: but I haven't change anything minetest-side, so I suspect it's my hardware or some driver update issue tango_: (although I am curious about the potential benefits from the commits that are being pushed to improve things on both client and server side for 5.4) hisforever: whats the url for pasting pictures in here? sfan5: you can use e.g. imgur.com/upload hisforever: thanks Stan hisforever: ok now how can I fix the doors? https://imgur.com/a/Dt4C7Sh hisforever: Really like the arched doors sfan5: issue with the way the mods defined them hisforever: I was afraid of that lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add missing not_in_creative_inventory group where appropriate (#2764) 13226e2d4 https://git.io/JkLmt (152020-11-11T15:29:43Z) specing: Hello specing: Is parameter passing to core.register_chatcommand documented somewhere? It seems like the whole argument is passed as a string specing: hmm specing: Ignore my spamming sfan5: everything after the command name is passed as a single string yes specing: would be nice if mt did some of the parsing already specing: Hmm, there seems to be no lua string.split Quiark: sagax: I played around with something like hot reload, in combination with my mtrepl mod (which gives you a REPL) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Mark additional locales as broken 1397aefe9 https://git.io/JkT5r (152020-11-10T09:30:42Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update fallback font to newer version 13b6e47a3 https://git.io/JkT5o (152020-11-10T09:30:42Z) big_caballito[m]: Is the LGPL copyleft? Kimapr[m]: it is GPL but less strict big_caballito[m]: If one uses an LGPL licensed library, do they have to license their program LGPL? Kimapr[m]: no, that's the point of lgpl, to allow usage of libraries in non-gpl stuff big_caballito[m]: oh wait no big_caballito[m]: i should have read the wikipedia before big_caballito[m]: instaed of trying to read the legal language big_caballito[m]: s/instaed/instead/ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Do not set a default for description in itemdef table (#10559) 13be3fe16 https://git.io/Jkkys (152020-11-10T20:03:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: ObjectRef: Re-add legacy code for set_physics_override (#10585) 13fca4db4 https://git.io/JkkyG (152020-11-10T20:02:53Z) MadKamel[m]: Hi Quiark: anyone having bug in inventory that it incorrectly reacts to mouseup? Quiark: I pick up item using mousedown but it gets dropped to a nearby slot where I do mouseup sfan5: by "nearby" do you mean you are hovering over the slot it ends up in or not? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix object interaction distance not being checked (#10547) 137589cbe https://git.io/JkJpH (152020-11-09T10:55:15Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04m42uko -> 03minetest/minetest: Joystick: Remap joystick-specific KeyTypes to generic ones 13e1142ee https://git.io/JkJhZ (152020-11-09T10:58:50Z) tango_: Quiark: I've seen it happen too tango_: sfan5: to me it happens during the motion from the slot it comes from to the slot I plan to put it in tango_: sometimes it drops on one of the intervening slots tango_: and if there's something in it it gets swapped with that tango_: very straonge tango_: I hadn't considered it might be lag tango_: (in the mouseup event handling) tango_: the impression I get is as if the click + move + click becomes two drag motions hisforever: Hi I had a mod that had invisable light block .I don't remember the mod, anybody know it? sfan5: !mod wield_light MinetestBot: sfan5: There are no results for this query :( sfan5: !mod wieldlight MinetestBot: sfan5: There are no results for this query :( sfan5: !mod wield light MinetestBot: sfan5: Lighten wielded item [wielded_light] by bell07 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19378 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/wielded_light sfan5: that one=? hisforever: that helps stan thanks BuckarooBanzai: !up 2600:3c04::f03c:92ff:fe5c:411a MinetestBot: [2600:3c04::f03c:92ff:fe5c:411a]:30000 seems to be down MisterE: Hi, is anyone here? 11J​onathon: possibly MisterE: :) MisterE: I want to set player movement to 0 programmatically MisterE: Im not sure if there is a good way to do that jackdoe: Hello? MisterE: hello jackdoe: Hi. How's it going? MisterE: I have a modding problem jackdoe: I'm kinda new to Minetest after having played Minecraft for a long while. MisterE: Oh! Welcome MisterE: You understand what minetest is, right? jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. MisterE: "its not a game, its an engine" You have to install your own mods to make the game playable. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. LoneWolfHT: rubenwardy: ^ MisterE: Go to the content tab to install mods jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. MisterE: tSTOP, pls jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. jackdoe: I know its an open source recreation of Minecraft. I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. LoneWolfHT: Unless matrix is broke that's spam MisterE: yep MisterE: :\ jackdoe: I know Minetest is an open source recreation of Minecraft jackdoe: I played Mineclone 2 for a bit. Ingar: !ops jackdoe: Hey. MisterE: was that spam on purpose? jackdoe: Spam? MisterE: reposting... MisterE: tIDK, 50 x jackdoe: Okay, Im a newbie to Minetest after playing Minecraft for a while so I wanted to see what anyone can tell me about Minetest. MisterE: Ok jackdoe: I played Mineclone 2 for a bit but it kinda left me wanting as it had a few things I miss from Minecraft. MisterE: For the best experience, join a server MisterE: ^^ jackdoe: Okay jackdoe: I always found Minecrafts music very soothing MisterE: Look for servers that have an interesting description nd a lot of players jackdoe: And I always notice how you have to keep holding down the "forward" key when jumping or else you stop in mid-air MisterE: A good start is Blocky SUrvival, though survival isnt hard there, there are lots of interesting builds jackdoe: Can you link me there? jackdoe: Cant seem to find it on ContentDB MisterE: @ jackdoe: Go to the servers tab and search Blocky SUrvival MisterE: t*Blocky Survival jackdoe: But anyway, Im still willing to give Minetest a second chance. Other than it being open source, what does Minetest have that Minecraft doesnt? MisterE: The idea behind minetest is that you can mod literally anything. If you are here to have fun, go to the servers tab and join a few and find a good one to play. You get a different experience with each server. Some servers have original content that the server owners make. Try the server IFS for a lot of original content MisterE: Minecraft is a game. Minetest is not a game... it is a program that allows you to play games. TO play a game, you can either make one by installing mods from the ContentDB or you can join a server (much better) jackdoe: I certainly find that overwhelming with all the mods on offer. jackdoe: I'm just looking to try and recreate Minecraft as close as possible. Ingar: there are games that do just that 12W​arr1024: If you're trying to recreate Minecraft as closely as possible, I'd recommend Minecraft. They emulate not only the gameplay, but even the licensing, pricing model, etc. jackdoe: *chuckles* 12W​arr1024: If you're here then it means you must be looking for something that's different in some important ways. 12W​arr1024: From what I understand the closest experience to Minecraft that MT has is probably MineClone2 right now. 12W​arr1024: it's a game, available for install on the content tab. There may be servers for it, I'm not sure, haven't looked. jackdoe: I'm just disappointed that Mineclone 2, so far, feels more like a cheap clone of Mincraft and I want to see if I'm missing something, if anyone can persuade me to give it another chance MisterE: Minetest is not free minecraft. Here, you will find a great diversity of content bc users can make their own content easily. Do you understand how to join a server? thats what you want to do... 12W​arr1024: yeah, any clone is likely to be "cheap" 12W​arr1024: When it comes to imitating Minecraft, Minecraft really has an advantage that nobody else can access. Ingar: and microsoft's money :D jackdoe: Well thanks anyway guys. As for trying the servers, I think I'll give that a try some more MisterE: Mineclone *is* not only a cheap clone of minecraft, its a *free* clone of minecraft. It is also supposed to be nostalgic... as Minecraft was many years ago. 12W​arr1024: I make a game for Minetest myself, and find Minecraft to be a pretty crappy clone of it. jackdoe: Unfortunately for me, I didnt play Minecraft right when it started. I only played the more recent versions and thats what I fell in love with. jackdoe: Right down to the atmosphere and music 12W​arr1024: That sucks. It was the earlier versions when it was really at its best :-) 12W​arr1024: I'm sorry you had to miss that Ingar: Especially the epic bugs 12W​arr1024: Maybe it's for the best for you, since at least they still make the version you love. jackdoe: What was it about the original version that the current one lacks? Besides the bugs? Ingar: jackdoe: far more 'uncomplicated' jackdoe: Fair enough Ingar: I also liked the worlds more 12W​arr1024: I bought MC back in the beta days, but ended up leaving because I was dissatisfied with gameplay direction. I ended up getting into the MC modding scene a bit, but then came over to MT because the modding tools in this world are much better than they've ever been in MC. 12W​arr1024: So, yes, it's possible to come to MT from MC and find it to be anything other than just a cheap knock-off. jackdoe: Can I at least find soundtrack mods for MT? jackdoe: um, music packages? 12W​arr1024: Music for MT games is rare because the size of the media files. Mostlly people just play their own music in the background in a separate player. 12W​arr1024: There ARE some packages that do music when it's integrated into gameplay. IIRC the Infinite Ikea does some music cue control based on gameplay environment...? jackdoe: Im interested. What was it about the gameplay that you felt dissatisfied with? 12W​arr1024: They just kept adding crap. They had this really cool voxel world emergent mechanics thing they could have focused on, but instead they just kept adding pets and other frivolities that didn't build on what they had. I saw the Better than Wolves mod going in a different direction, and building a comprehensive gameplay experience where each added element built on others, rather than just being more fluff. I wanted more of that, MTDiscord: and eventually wanted to MAKE more of if. 12W​arr1024: MC Vanilla kept going more and more in the fluff direction, and I played BTW for a while but my own attempts to expand and mod for it ran into issues with the extremely restrictive licensing. Ingar: imho, minecraft fun died when bukkit died jackdoe: Who? Ingar: bukkit, it was a server-side "mod organizer" and many interesting features Ingar: so, basicly, mods. Ingar: (disclaimer: I'm actually still running a vanilla mc server) sfan5: "plugins" is what they're called Ingar: sfan5: right! jackdoe: Other than Mineclone2, any games you guys can recommend? jackdoe: What about mods too? 12W​arr1024: I can always recommend my own game, NodeCore. jackdoe: Funny. I just downloaded it now jackdoe: So you made it? 12W​arr1024: mostly, yeah jackdoe: I'll be sure to give it a try 12W​arr1024: I started having help after a while, so some features are contributed by others MisterE: Is there a way to test if player is in first person or 3rd? Krock: that's not exposed to the Lua API yet sagax: hi all! sagax: how to hot-reload code from mod? sagax: without restart game 11I​hrFussel: Impossible 11G​reenXenith: There is a mod for hot reloading 11G​reenXenith: the only thing you cant reload is node registrations sagax: uff, hard reload for each changes rubenwardy: it's possible for cod sagax: cod? what is? english not native for me, sorry rubenwardy: +e rubenwardy: code rubenwardy: you can dofile files to load and run again, you'll need to design it to work well when ran multiple times rubenwardy: and not have any thing like register_* in it sagax: hm sagax: is sound as good sagax: i want reload code from mod sagax: hot-reload rubenwardy: it's not possible to hot-reload without designing the mod to allow that rubenwardy: and even then, you can only hot reload code rubenwardy: you can use devtest to get a faster loading time rubenwardy: it's a game bundled with Minetest rubenwardy: well, sometimes rubenwardy: *sometimes bundled with minetest sagax: hot reload code sagax: i mean - hot reload code tango_: I have WAY too much tin and not enough copper tango_: I wonder if it's because I'm color blind and copper veins are harder to see perrier: !up 69.247.56.186:30003 MinetestBot: 69.247.56.186:30003 is up (123ms) WonderingDane: What is the requirements to host a Minetest server? Emerald2: I've never seen anyone give a concrete answer to that. Emerald2: Do you want to do it from home or get a VPS? It also depends on how many players you want to support and the mods you want to install. WonderingDane: I'm just interested in knowing how much RAM and storage you need at minimum. AceNovo: I ran a server for family of 3 on a 64 bit Arm with 2 GB RAM WonderingDane: AceNovo, very nice. Which SBC did you use? A Raspberry? I do intend on hosting it on x86 though. AceNovo: Exploring lags with MicroSD for storage, but it's fine as long as the online players stick together AceNovo: This was Pine A64 LTS AceNovo: Singleboard involves a few accomodations, but Minecraft is unplayable on that board, so win MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentCAO: Fix segfault when minimap is disabled 13c940a57 https://git.io/JkfkU (152020-11-08T10:30:16Z) heavygale: hi, i just updates all mods and the minetest_game,now i get this error heavygale: mods/creative/init.lua:48: attempt to call field 'is_creative_enabled' (a nil value) heavygale: what's the best way to makeit work? :D sfan5: minetest_game 5.3.0 only works with minetest 5.3.0 sfan5: so you should update your engine heavygale: alright :) Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: I got a question Miniontoby: is there a way to overwrite an cmd Miniontoby: or wait Miniontoby: no i think i cant Miniontoby: sorry Krock: you can perrier: !up 69.247.56.186:30003 MinetestBot: 69.247.56.186:30003 is up (121ms) Krock: nice minetest91283: anyone here running gentoo? for some reason, I'm missing the base minetest game and only have "development test", and I'm not sure how to get it rubenwardy: cd ~/.minetest; mkdir -p games; git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game -b stable-5 rubenwardy: assuming you have it installed systemwide rubenwardy: there may also be a `minetest_game` package, idk minetest91283: beautiful, thanks minetest91283: there isn't a minetest_game package FWIW rubenwardy: oops rubenwardy: I meant to cd as well rubenwardy: cd ~/.minetest; mkdir -p games; cd games; git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game -b stable-5 rubenwardy: you could also mv ~/.minetest/minetest_game ~/.minetest/games/ rubenwardy: if already clones minetest91283: yeah, I moved it and it worked rubenwardy: I suppose git clone could clone straight into games as well \o/ rubenwardy: coolio celeron55: also if your minetest is too old you might have to use an older version of the game rubenwardy: oh yes, I assumed that gentoo would have the most recent version - isn't it rolling release? minetest91283: it is, 5.3.0 is the latest minetest91283: either way, it's working and I'm in a world tango_: OK, the android interface on a cellphone is too smal 11I​hrFussel: There is a setting for that 'gui_scaling' tango_: thanks, but it doesn't really help in my case tango_: I think the screen is just too small to play tango_: movement gives me a bit of motion sickness and the crafting form remains too small Calinou: yeah, Minetest was never really designed to be played on mobile Calinou: a specialized crafting mod would help (like in MCPE) I guess Calinou: something where you only choose the item to craft, and it takes the items from your inventory automatically Calinou: as for GUI scaling, try increasing the font size as well and/or HUD scaling. Those are separate settings Calinou: but even on a 6"+ smartphone, it's not exactly easy to play anyway Calinou: (foldable phones, save us) tango_: A different full-screen layout for the craft might help too tango_: currently the scarce estate is used sub-optimally tango_: font size isn't even that much of an issue IME tango_: biggest gripes are: wasted space in the crafting form, navigation, and pointing tango_: placing some elements is extremely hard (e.g. fence rails to fence rails) tango_: I don't have a proposal on how to fix them, though, so don't take the gripes too seriously tango_: the autojump can help, but is also dangerous (jump over fence into ravine = bad) tango_: I ended up disabling it, but it's not nice without it either tango_: and toggling it is too cumbersome, it should be available from the main UI tango_: does minetest only use irrlicht for the client or also for the server? 11J​onathon: if your running from the command line with --server, it doesn't use irrlicht if i recall correctly 11J​onathon: *might be wrong tango_: hm there seems to be some dependency from irrlicht even in the engine tango_: ah sorry the engine is not just the server, of course 11J​onathon: don't quote me on that, you would be better off getting a answer from a core dev or someone that works with the engine 11J​onathon: *with/on LoneWolfHT: I think some Irrlitch math/types are used or something swift110: sup folks 09s​rinivas: sky 11J​onathon: the moon, sorta a1fa: hello.. i installed the nether dragon.. how can you spawn it on command? Elvis26: With command? a1fa: yeah is it possible to do like /giveme etc Elvis26: I need to know what mod Elvis26: nether dragon? a1fa: nether_dragon a1fa: yeah Elvis26: Do /giveme nether_dragon:spawn_egg Elvis26: Can I have link on this mod? a1fa: https://content.minetest.net/packages/rael5/nether_mobs/ Elvis26: This Oh Elvis26: Whoops Elvis26: Wait Elvis26: Do /giveme nether_mobs:dragon_scale a1fa: /giveme nether_mobs:dragon a1fa: kk a1fa: it's still complaining Elvis26: You need mob dragon? Elvis26: This nether_mobs:dragon_fire Elvis26: But with command /giveme a1fa: it's saying unknown item a1fa: i dont see the mod loaded either Elvis26: Did you enabled the mod? Elvis26: *enable a1fa: ;( Elvis26: No? a1fa: ha... assumed it auto loaded a1fa: no i did not a1fa: doing it now Elvis26: This won't work with disabled mod Elvis26: Wait, I will try a1fa: i just put it into mineclone2 mods directory.. i assumed it would auto load since there is no way to enable it a1fa: it's running headless server 09w​war: Hello, i tryed to setspawn on a server it said "spawn set" But whenever a new player joins they join on the place of the default spawn and if someone dies samething happens but /spawn works properly, Anyone knows why? Elvis26: You need to install mod nether a1fa: it's part of the mineclone2 Elvis26: I have it Elvis26: https://content.minetest.net/packages/PilzAdam/nether/ a1fa: right - it comes bundled with mineclone2 Elvis26: Install it and rename on nether in Minetest not in MineClone2 and enable it Elvis26: But I have it Elvis26: I have dragon a1fa: say that again? a1fa: the servergame is mineclone2 Elvis26: Do /giveme nether_mobs:dragon Elvis26: Done Elvis26: And enable mod nether in Minetest a1fa: but the game is mineclone2 :( i am a bit confused Elvis26: I don't know a1fa: 2020-11-07 13:54:40: ERROR[Main]: mod "nether_mobs" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default" "mobs" "nether" "stairs" a1fa: i guess that answers that a1fa: i forgot debug messages were disabled, so this is helpful 11J​onathon: seems that mod only support mtg, since it depends on default TomTom: any idea why i dont have a mouse pointer in the inventory or craft book? (playing mineclone2) 04L​one_Wolf: What's your OS/Minetest version? TomTom: 5.3, in an xubuntu vm TomTom: it might be virtualbox related. TomTom: in a normal kubuntu (host) its does not have this problem. the arrow is not visible in all ingame container menus (also crafting etc) VanessaE: CNN PROJECTS THE WINNER! BIDEN IS PRESIDENT ELECT! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert #10495 and simplify. 138c1871f https://git.io/JkexY (152020-11-07T16:51:10Z) 11J​onathon: heh, politics Herkules: Hello, i habe a modding question: Herkules: Is there a API function that allows me to run a function if a node has been set? Herkules: Like minetest.register_on_placenode but not only if the player places the node also if grass or flowers spread. Herkules: The same for destruction/set to air. sfan5: there's currently no reliable callback for general node placement/removal sfan5: depending on your usecase and ABM might do the trick Herkules: Okay thank you. I okay i will try that. tango_: does minetest server support upnp? tango_: ah found the issue tango_: actually not tango_: meh sfan5: you can easily use an external upnp client to forward the port you want tango_: sfan5: of course blaise: hrmmm _Zaizen_[m]: Hi everyone, I would like to know if there's a way to add an armourgroup to a player without overwriting the others and without using get_armor_groups rubenwardy: you need to use get_armor_groups.... rubenwardy: why is that a problem? rubenwardy: local armor = player:get_armor_groups(); armor.something = 3; player:set_armor_groups(armor) 07s​kyliner_369: is ~/.minetest called the appdata? or what is it called? I forget... and where's it found in windows again? Kimapr: $HOME\AppData and then there are Local, LocalLow, and Roaming subdirs rubenwardy: ~/.minetest is referred to as user data or user path in Minetest ShadowBot: rubenwardy: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). rubenwardy: thanks ShadowBot SX: hey there, simple question. Is there "supported" way to break long dependency list over multiple lines in mod.conf? SX: tried if simply leaving comma as last character would do the trick but seems like not 09s​rinivas: does 'escaping' the new line with a '' work? 09s​rinivas: *\ SX: tried \ and " but not ' ... 09s​rinivas: oof 09s​rinivas: i think you misunderstood me lol sfan5: multiline settings are possible with """ but I don't know if the engine ignores line breaks inside the list 09s​rinivas: i should, but not sure SX: thanks sfan5, I'll try what it gives SX: sfan5, seems like that works \o/ sfan5: good to know SX: now wondering if contentdb breaks after doing this :p SX: we'll see rubenwardy: SX: ContentDB doesn't support multiple lines in .conf yet SX: rubenwardy good to know, planning to make it support that format? rubenwardy: yeah, opened an issue now: https://github.com/minetest/contentdb/issues/243 SteveT: Hi there. Is anyone online able to help me with a Mionetest Server install on Ubuntu 20.04? 09s​rinivas: i may be able to help SteveT: @srinivas - I've installed the server from Buster-backports (v5.1.1) with 'sudo apt install minetest-server'. It appears to create a user for the server daemon to run, makes a symlink to the users home folder to /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest and puts the minetest.conf file into /etc/minetest/minetest.conf. My question is where should I put the mod, world and game files? 09s​rinivas: hmm 09s​rinivas: the mods go in world/worldomds 09s​rinivas: *world/worldmods 09s​rinivas: the game(s) go in games/ SteveT: yes - but should the worlds/world folder be under /var/user/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds? 09s​rinivas: yes SteveT: OK. I'll give it a try. Thanks for your help. pogmanB: a tango_: I know there is a way to split (halve) stacks on Android, because someteimes I do, but I have been unable to identify the exact gesture sfan5: I think it was tapping another slot while a holding a stack (so that two fingers touch at the same time) tango_: not sure I undestand tango_: dragging and tapping with other finger drops a singke one tango_: ah it's pick, not drag tango_: so tap on stack (picks it), press with one finger ondest slot, and tap with other finger tango_: this moves half the picked stack MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix integer-string conversion for shaders 13627c22c https://git.io/JTptf (152020-11-05T18:34:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04CyberDonk3y -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Improve Russian translation (#2761) 130a950c9 https://git.io/JTpq0 (152020-11-05T18:48:15Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04daretmavi -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Slovak translations (#2772) 132953bf2 https://git.io/JTpqE (152020-11-05T18:47:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Slight simplification and optimization of RemoteClient. 1339213bd https://git.io/JTbHo (152020-11-04T00:23:47Z) tango_: OK I've implemented my “cooler lava cooling” but I'm not actually sure it's an improvement tango_: definitely not satisfied with it tango_: ah, this is tricky tango_: one of the things I would need to achieve the effect I want would be to get a block that is solid up to a certain value and liquid otherwise tango_: and whose liquid behavior is something intermediate between the purely liquid level and the liquid + solid level tango_: oh boy bobr3: yo big_caballito[m]: 👋 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "Fix short 180 degree rotation when using set_bone_position (#… 13e3bd670 https://git.io/JTAzk (152020-11-04T20:43:32Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix ObjectRef errors due to lua_isnil() (#10564) 1372b93ec https://git.io/JTAzI (152020-11-04T20:43:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix deprecated get_player_velocity and set_physics_override calls (#2… 13331bbae https://git.io/JTAzL (152020-11-04T20:42:35Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Add model[] formspec element (#10320) 133356da0 https://git.io/JTAzs (152020-11-04T20:46:18Z) Andrey01: hello Andrey01: can node have immediately few timers that would work sinchronously? I mean those timers that can be gotten via 'minetest.get_node_timer()' segfault22: exit banneddotvideo: wew orgonon: !version orgonon: hmm bobr: #server Edgy1.net bobr: frick bobr: yo Norkle: YEEE! tango_: I want this in minetest https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131022-gold-eucalyptus-leaves-mining-geology-science/?utm_source=reddit.com pyrollo: Did you have a look at that : https://github.com/pyrollo/grunds ? pyrollo: It's mapgen generated, no possible sapling but possible change settings to have various trees (tricky). tango_: pyrollo: I actually thought about the orewood mod when reading that article https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12093 pyrollo: Oh yes ! Funny :) tango_: but that grunds thing looks amazing tango_: makes me want to build a house in those trees pyrollo: Yeah! That was excatly the purpose of this mod :) tango_: unrelated, but do tree leaves regen in MTG? tango_: that is, if I remove all the leaves from a tree, but do not touch the trunk, do they grow back? pyrollo: I dont remember if it is in MTG, seen that on some servers pyrollo: Mmhh I think I mix up with apple regen :/ Telesight: Hello all ... Telesight: I have a problem with updating Minetest_game to 5.3.0 Telesight: Auto-merging mods/default/craftitems.lua Telesight: CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in mods/default/craftitems.lua tango_: Telesight: looks like you have local changes tango_: in places that were also modified upstream Telesight: hmmm I did not change things locally sfan5: then you can git reset stable-5 --hard Telesight: I do the following steps: Telesight: git reset HEAD --hard Telesight: git config remote.origin.fetch "+refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/origin/*" Telesight: git fetch origin stable-5 Telesight: git checkout stable-5 Telesight: git pull -f tango_: uff why isn't renewable lava a config option 8-/ tango_: I don't suppose a PR to implement configurable renewable lava would be accepted, would it? sfan5: minetest_game is frozen for new features tango_: sfan5: I'm aware, but I would say this isn't a new feature tango_: this is an old feature ;-) 11J​onathon: you could write a mod that overrides lava, and have the setting be from your mod tango_: jonathon: I am aware of that, but the whole point of the setting is to satisfy those that would rather have it renewable without having to install a mod just for that tango_: (which honestly is a teensy little bit ridiculous) 11J​onathon: i totally agree with you, but if mtg is not will to accept that, be the only way to do so, unless you want to fork mtg over that tango_: well, I have to fork the repo anyway to do the PR tango_: 8-D tango_: in fact I would argue that precisely because MTG is in freeze it's particularly important for this little fixes to go in 11J​onathon: yes, but where is the line drawn of what to accept and what not to? its not a bug fix really 11J​onathon: but give it a go, see if you can get it merged tango_: arguably something for which people keep looking for a workaround after 7 years is broken tango_: i do plan on making a mod centered around lava tango_: but that's going to be something more serious tango_: a volcano biome specing: there is a mod that creates active volcanoes specing: also magma conduits tango_: yes I've been reading about them tango_: but I think the first step would be to try and fix lava flow in MTG tango_: starting from more aggressive lava cooling tango_: if I'm not mistaken, param2 is not used for lava nodes tango_: well, aside from the flowing thing tango_: hm tango_: ah I see tango_: flowingliquid only seems to use bits 0:3 inclusive, so 4:7 are free tango_: I'm going to do some brainstorming here in chat, feel free to tell me to stop if you find it annoying tango_: we can actually use only 3 of those free bits to store a pseudo-temperature / phase. 0 means liquid phase (consistency with previous nodes), and when the value becomes larger than the value of bits 0:2 it means the node should solidify tango_: lava_flowing (not source) phase change is directed by neighboring nodes: each adjacent lava node contributes -1, each adjacent air node contributes +1, each adjacent cooling node contributes +2 Telesight: I have a problem with updating Minetest_game to 5.3.0 Telesight: I still get this error: Telesight: Auto-merging mods/default/craftitems.lua Telesight: CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in mods/default/craftitems.lua sfan5: do git checkout stable-5 && git reset HEAD --hard instead of all those commands Telesight: Ok I try Telesight: mods/default/craftitems.lua: needs merge Telesight: error: you need to resolve your current index first rubenwardy: Git merge --abort rubenwardy: But lowercase Telesight: I get the same fault tango_: so, the risk of abusing lava's param2 to hold its phase transition status is that a future engine extension for flowing types might use those bits? specing: isn't param2 already used for the various flowing lava anims? tango_: it's used by all fluids tango_: not just lava tango_: but fluids currently only use the lowest 4 bits (0:2 for the level and 3 as a boolean) tango_: so I could use the upper 4 bits (4:7) for extra stuff, BUT if the MT developers change something in core for fluids, it might fsck things up tango_: the safer alternative would be, I guess, using the metadata tango_: which is going to be slower tango_: hm is there an api to get the liquid level? or do I have to math it myself? sfan5: minetest.get_node_level(pos) tango_: ah thanks tango_: hm what happens if one calls get_node_level on a node where it doesn't make sense? tango_: ah from reading the source I guess it would end up returning 0 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Increase defaults for viewing_range, active_object_range and related … 13aa4d3cb https://git.io/JTb9Y (152020-11-03T23:55:53Z) ferrumcccp: life is too.much Ingar: existing has downsides schrodinger72: Hi everyone Calinou: Travis CI is introducing usage limits for free plans (1000 minutes of Linux per month): https://blog.travis-ci.com/2020-11-02-travis-ci-new-billing sfan5: huh sfan5: thankfully we're already on github actions specing: Yay, more vendor lock-in rubenwardy: the scripts are independent from host rubenwardy: it's just the CI config rubenwardy: we have CI configs for GitLab, GitHub, and Travis rubenwardy: pretty much all of CI is the same these days - they give you a docker image to run commands in sfan5: s/docker image/any form of container or vm/ rubenwardy: it being docker is what is good though rubenwardy: you can use the same base image on different hosts sfan5: what I mean is just that you can run docker *on* travis, but the environment travis gives you is not a docker container itself rubenwardy: I wasn't including travis in CI these days :D rubenwardy: travis feels quite antiquated, although they've improved the config recently sfan5: the only thing annoying me about github actions is that you can't rerun individual builds and the build output window is pretty small rubenwardy: yeah that's true rubenwardy: I wonder if the rerunning thing is a config issue MinetestBot: 02[git] 04red-001 -> 03minetest/minetest: Block attempts to connect to the client (#10589) 130abb3e8 https://git.io/JTdDz (152020-11-02T21:21:03Z) GyurisDani[m]: hello submariner: hi Gael-de-Sailly: Hi, i'm trying to compile minetest on my newly upgraded ubuntu, and I can't find which package I'm missing Gael-de-Sailly: it couldn't find lua.h Ingar: most likely, lua-something-devel Gael-de-Sailly: i have liblua5.1-0-dev and libluajit-5.1-dev Gael-de-Sailly: and minetest is working via ppa GyurisDani[m]: i downloaded it and go GyurisDani[m]: Ubuntu Gael-de-Sailly: what you mean? you downloaded the ppa? Gael-de-Sailly: I can use minetest and play, but I want to be able to compile my custom code 09s​rinivas: hmm, iTzNavic: Ware can I find the minetest server software? Krock: your distro repository iTzNavic: the repo is always outdated so ware else can I find it? Krock: ware -> where Krock: stable releases for ubuntu can be found here: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable Krock: for debian, check the backport repository MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix incorrect deprecation hints 139c9344c https://git.io/JTQAM (152020-11-01T11:52:14Z) morgn: well morgn: exit\ 13G​enshin: Krock, this is as far as i got to with dualwielding https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123175583186964/771940590711078922/Dual_Wield.mp4 Krock: just 10s later and I were gone Krock: I don't see any wieldhand, though 13G​enshin: Thats because im not using first person attachments yet X) 13G​enshin: Works on 3rd peson tho Flitzpiepe: hello everyone SoylentCow: hi Flitzpiepe Vagabond[m]: 👋 tango_: OK published my dowsing mod code so far tango_: going to need some thorough redesign to be really useful though tango_: ow gawd I forgot my screenshots are huge 8-/ Vagabond[m]: tango_: is that your first mod? Congrats! tango_: Vagabond[m]: first mod, not first programming experience ;-) 13G​enshin: made dual wielding a thing 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/771962520125571072/Screenshot_at_2020-10-30_18-07-26.png 13G​enshin: Krock, i still remember that one discussion we had about dual wielding. Well here is a proof of concept :) 04o​neplustwo: isnt fleckenstein also trying to implement dual-wielding? 09s​rinivas: ye 09s​rinivas: (s)he is 04o​neplustwo: its a he 09s​rinivas: but, i expect it would need a fleckenstien server and client to do 09s​rinivas: or a pr to get accepted 09s​rinivas: which may or may not happen 13G​enshin: Made dual wielding without touching core tbh. Lol 09s​rinivas: heh, depending on changes made by jordach's pr eh? 13G​enshin: It works like a charm on jord's pr. Though without it, it wont be visible on 1st person 09s​rinivas: oh, nice 13G​enshin: And for npcs, they got multi wield capabilities 13G​enshin: Just in case for 4 or 8 arm mobs 09s​rinivas: niceee 13G​enshin: Here, lol 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/771968835959521300/Screenshot_at_2020-10-30_16-01-41.png 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/771968836198334464/Screenshot_at_2020-10-29_15-11-30.png 13G​enshin: Hmm, wrong code X) 13G​enshin: Fixed 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/771969102972583936/Screenshot_at_2020-10-30_16-06-16.png 09s​rinivas: nicee 09s​rinivas: licensed yet? 13G​enshin: gplv3 at the moment 13G​enshin: I'll be making a standalone version of this npc framework which would be MIT 09s​rinivas: mhm 09s​rinivas: might i recommend sspl 13G​enshin: sspl sounds good 09s​rinivas: lol, ik, poor folks at mongodb 13G​enshin: Though the version above is specifically for the legacy forge game 09s​rinivas: mhm blaise: does the in game online conent browser make account for minetest version compatability, or is the lua modding api not version independent? tango_: the real question is, does dual-yielding allow items to specify they need twohands? tango_: for example, my dowsing rods would need two hands 13G​enshin: tango_ will this answer your question? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123175583186964/771940590711078922/Dual_Wield.mp4 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/771993291482857482/Screenshot_at_2020-10-30_18-14-53.png 13G​enshin: A more practical method would be using a slot format with inventory so you can dual wield with any item. Although this one is more simplistic 13G​enshin: And encourages dual wield item crafting 13G​enshin: Having two hands involves messing around core 13G​enshin: So leave such implementation to the core devs 13G​enshin: Though they have more important things to tackle before even considering implementing such a feature 13G​enshin: The best we can do is make dual wield attachments. And with this pr. It will make things alot easier https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10360 tango_: I'm not sure that video shows what I mean tango_: but maybe ye tango_: I'll have to look at it some time later 13G​enshin: Two hands as in the builtin wield item on 1st person correct? 13G​enshin: If that's the case, that requires a feature via core. tango_: yeah tango_: the idea is that if the user is wielding a two-handed item in one hand, it cannot wield a second item in the other tango_: of course ideally visually the item should go from one hand to the other too 13G​enshin: Sounds like core stuff. 13G​enshin: The PR above allows us to show attached items on first person 13G​enshin: Which you can try to make a workaround with that tango_: that's too far ahead for me currently ;-) tango_: ok I have a question about the modding API; do the settings appear anywhere in the UI? or is it just for stuff that can be configured in the .conf file? tango_: (I mean at least for singleplayer) * blaise: bursts in to flames 13G​enshin: Puts out the fire with water * blaise: 's fire grows hotter and more intense blaise: hydrogen and oxygen are fuel... 13G​enshin: Grabs Thanos's gauntlet and erases the fire from existance with a single snap 02B​lais3: that's fake news 02B​lais3: and you should know this 02B​lais3: https://tenor.com/view/funny-lol-lmao-smile-happy-gif-16457588 02B​lais3: sips his coffee 13G​enshin: What do you mean? 13G​enshin: lol 02B​lais3: Thanos is a false representation of an individual from an ancient civilisation of highly advanced species.. 13G​enshin: Can't you take a joke? :P 02B​lais3: the individual acfually represented themself as Thanatos.. 02B​lais3: we will probably never know their actual designation 02B​lais3: I can take a joke, I'm just rather offended by the contamination of the marvel commics by such malarky 02B​lais3: before this thanos character was manufactured, the series was very good.. tango_: isn't thanatos death? 02B​lais3: eh, not exactly 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/772003907399581706/giphy_2.gif 02B​lais3: Thanatos was tasked with the undertaking of apothecary to the upper counsel and higher socialites of the ancient Greek.. 02B​lais3: a mortician, basically 02B​lais3: known to be responsible for the ones whom died calmly 02B​lais3: there were others how ever whom would hold service to those who died violent deaths.. be it by crime or battle.. 02B​lais3: Thanatos specialized in taking great care to not spread what ever may have caused the indivituals deaths to the rest of the populace.. 09s​rinivas: heh 09s​rinivas: TIL moment eh 02B​lais3: he had a brother whom would visit those suffering and cause sleep, but would also cause sleep to those who didn't.. they worked as a team 02B​lais3: their sisters were the ones who handled those that died of a violent means 02B​lais3: ancient greek can be very difficult to enterpret.. 02B​lais3: when the language was originally givin translation to ther languages there was very little comprehencion of the professions in those cultures.. so the translations are kind of misleading 02B​lais3: our current comprehension would suggest that it was a family practice... 02B​lais3: probably appointed to them by Nyx.. 02B​lais3: the sisters took the role of handeling those whom died a violent death when the need arose from the devisation which Erebus brought forth 02B​lais3: which later caused Chronos to be more motivated to destroy his creations and start anew 02B​lais3: well, he had a great many reasons to destroy his childeren.. Erebos was just tossing more fuel on the fire at that point 02B​lais3: quite possibly out of spite for his siblings.. tango_: the real question though is: is there a way to rotate the wield item around the axis which is orthogonal to the screen? tango_: I mean in the wield_item spe tango_: spec blaise: tango_: yes. tango_: blaise: hm I've tried the transforms documented here without much success https://dev.minetest.net/texture 02B​lais3: cool, glad you're finding what you need blaise: I'm very sure someone will come along who has more experience in the matter that can help you.. only a matter of time before someone sees the logs 08a​ppguru: blaise: no 08a​ppguru: except if generating the models yourself and wasting node IDs tango_: hm is there a hook on the user changing item and/or one on the user taking a step? tango_: hm looks like I don't need it specing: tango_: probably the only way is get_wield_index in globalstep? tango_: specing: well for my purposes I can just check the name if it changes. the effect not triggering when switching to a different item w/ the same name is acceptable specing: tango_: look at how the torch mods do it specing: tango_: also play MP tango_: specing: torch mods? specing: ... tango_: for MP, I keep a table with per-player last-pos/last-tool, so each checks against its own tango_: specing: this one? https://github.com/minetest-mods/torches specing: No, I mean *you* go and *play* MP specing: would expand your horizons by a lot tango_: oh you mean game-wise 8-) rubenwardy: blaise: yes, contentdb has version checking. You'll only see stuff that supports your version in mt rubenwardy: tango_: see setting types.txt, mods can use it to add settings to all settings tango_: rubenwardy: I know, I did that, but I don't see them in th UI? rubenwardy: It's at the bottom of the all settings dialog rubenwardy: Under your mod namd tango_: rubenwardy: ooooh found it thanks! tango_: shows that I implemented settingtypes correctly ;-) tango_: rubenwardy: btw that's a part that is missing from your tutorial 8-) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix segfault in deprecation logging due to tail call, log by default … 1389dd05f https://git.io/JTHwQ (152020-10-31T18:19:23Z) dianshi: iho ho ho 10J​ordach: kilbith now you understand why i despise "that guy" 13G​enshin: https://tenor.com/view/respect-davis-boreanaz-salute-uniform-gif-11216021 tango_: I dislike adding pngs to my repo, are there other formats supported, such as xpm2? tango_: oh wow xpm2 is supported apparently 03B​enrob0329: What's wrong with PNGs? 04L​one_Wolf: JPEG ftw 11I​hrFussel: PNGs cannot contain malware from what I read once...not sure if this also applies to other image formats but that is a huge plus SteveT: Hi Everyone. Is this the correct channel to ask about the configuration of a dedicated minetest-server install on Ubuntu? 04L​one_Wolf: If it isn't c55 will have to ban a bunch of his community. Fire away SteveT: I've installed Minetest 5.3.0 on Ubuntu 20.04 from the minetestdev ppa. I have the server running fine, and know the config files are best put in /etc/minetest, but where do I put games, worlds and mods? SteveT: I'm running the server only... ie, minetest-server 11I​hrFussel: /etc requires root access (by default) do NOT run MT as root Put your config in your MT folder and mods in .minetest/mods ... games in .minetest/games 11I​hrFussel: Worlds in .minetest/worlds 11I​hrFussel: If you want to have mods-per-world or you don't want to have to enable each mod sepatetly put your mods in .minetest/worlds/yourworld/worldmods 11I​hrFussel: If you have no world yet go into your home directory and put 'minetest --world .minetest/worlds/worldname' as command (IIRC) 11I​hrFussel: separately* SteveT: Thanks for that..... to confirm, the aabsolute path for the morlds, mods and games folders should be /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest? 11I​hrFussel: No, just leave it inside your home folder 11I​hrFussel: Create an extra user for MT if you can't do that 09s​rinivas: normally, on ubuntu atleast, i find that it adds in a systemd service, and is run by the user games tango_: benrob0329: the problem with PNG is that it's a binary format, not really versionable tango_: Benrob0329[m]: a XPM2 is textual, easy to visualize even on console, and even slightly more compact despite the lack of compression tango_: the only thing missing in XPM2 is an RGBA specification, so a pixel is either fully transparent (color 'none') or fully opaque (any color, with colors in 8-bit-per-channel RGB) Quiark: lol I want to see people resolving conflicts in text editor in XPM2 tango_: Quiark: oh that'd be fun, but stil easier than with any other format! Quiark: of course it'd be silly, normal people would use an image editor tango_: true tango_: and that might actually be the biggest issue, because who knows how the color table gets remapped to symbols every time you save tango_: so someone editing in an image editor would probably mash up the file completely even if it only changes one pixel tango_: also to my frustration I noticed vim doesn't “syntax highlight” xpm2 files correctly 8-/ tango_: it does with the other XPM formats apparently tango_: Quiark: another advantage of XPM2 is that you can generate them programmatically, which is quite useful when you have groups of pictures that are just palette juggling of the same image tango_: thing e.g. all ingots or wood variants Quiark: imagemagick tango_: Quiark: sure, but with textual formats you don't even need external tools Calinou: XPM is a nice novelty format but in 2020, it's not really relevant anymore Calinou: optimized PNGs are really small when used for pixel art, making binaries a non-issue at this point for Git history size Calinou: praise https://github.com/shssoichiro/oxipng :) 09w​war: Yup ^^ Calinou: (--strip --zopfli will give you the best sizes) tango_: Calinou: IME XPM2 is still smaller than optimized PNG tango_: at least for the 16x16 icons I'm writing tango_: but again, for me the issue isn't even so much size as it is the fact that they are more easily diffable tango_: and scriptable tango_: heck if the ingots were in XPM I would already be done with the textures for the other rods Calinou: the scripting part is a good point, I guess it works if you don't have access to a library to output images Calinou: but again, most languages have such a library :P tango_: instead I have to open each PNG, check the color, and copy it over tango_: yes, I could script that too by using imagemagick to query the color of a specific pixel, but I have to try and rememeber the incantation tango_: with text format it's trivial tango_: in fact, with this approach you wouldn't even need to store the textures in the mod, you could generate them on-the-fly using lua tango_: template + color jjohngreensr[m]: Help, Minetest doesnt actually boot for me. I'm on Android 10, using the F-Droid version, and the loading bar just goes straight from left to right, ending with something in shaders/COLEGO2TextureBlend or something like that jjohngreensr[m]: And then it goes to black for a split second before starting the loading again Follpvosten[m]: The F-Droid version hasn't yet been updated for Android 10 Follpvosten[m]: You need 5.3.0, I got it via Aurora Store sfan5: you can also download the apk tango_: jjohngreensr[m]: yep I had to use the play store version because of that tango_: not too happy, but at least it boots tango_: does anybody know why the f-droid version isn't being updatd, btw? 11I​hrFussel: How can PNG be binary but safe from 'hidden malware'? At least that is what I read 09s​rinivas: hmm, does it get executed? tango_: safety doesn't depend on binary vs textual, it depends on clarity of specification tango_: the only potential issue with PNG would be some kind of undocumented packet that contains executable code and a decoder that understands and executes those packets zughy[m]: hey VanessaE could you please have a look at the move request section? It's kind of flooded https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10418 10J​ordach: PNG has been out for nearly 24 years supported in windows from early as 98 without issue or malware 10J​ordach: GIF has caused more problems for Windows users because they could actually overflow the IE based renderer and get kernel access niwla23[m]: I think my problem with local timeouts is about the interface. niwla23[m]: Can I somehow see on what interface mt binds? sfan5: it doesn't bind to an interface, it binds to the wildcard IP 0.0.0.0 niwla23[m]: hm , but 0.0.0.0 is public on the whole network or not? niwla23[m]: so when i just click start game it makes a server for the whole LAN? sfan5: only a single connection is allowed in singleplayer mode niwla23[m]: but why does it not bind to localhost? niwla23[m]: and can i check what device will be used for 0.0.0.0? niwla23[m]: like 127.0.0.1 is always lo1 sfan5: 0.0.0.0 is *every* interface niwla23[m]: oh niwla23[m]: okay it seems to be some problem with the system * niwla23[m]: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FeWNVtIrTqYtBiZkUzPQebRO/message.txt > niwla23[m]: but when i nmap localhost it does not show 8888 as open * niwla23[m]: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XGIOckRfTisnjNfBsatYDBdk/message.txt > niwla23[m]: but remote servers are working sfan5: nmap scans tcp, not udp sfan5: even if you switch it to udp I don't know if it can detect minetest niwla23[m]: uh, ok that explains the nmap problem niwla23[m]: but for some reason i still get a timeout tango_: jordach: to be fair, PNG has had issues with IE too because of the lack of support of proper transparency Vagabond[m]: niwla23: have you tried running Minetest as root? niwla23[m]: yes Vagabond[m]: I also noticed you're running `./minetest`, so you're running the binary directly. Do you have a `minetest` application installed? If so, it should be on your PATH somewhere. Could you try running just `minetest` from a terminal? niwla23[m]: i tested all that stuff already Vagabond[m]: Ah, ok niwla23[m]: Foudn something! I can connect to a dedicated local server when using the LAN Ip (192.168.....), but not using 127.0.0.1 or localhost sfan5: are you sure it's not a firewall or sandbox? niwla23[m]: i think it is some sort of fucked network settings 😂 Vagabond[m]: And to verify, and pardon my laziness for reading back through the history: you're running the server and the client on the same machine? niwla23[m]: yes Vagabond[m]: * And to verify, and pardon my laziness for not reading back through the history: you're running the server and the client on the same machine? Vagabond[m]: If you're playing in single player, the client should spin up everything without you needing the start a server, right? niwla23[m]: yes but logically it has to start a server niwla23[m]: but connecting to that one times out Vagabond[m]: (again, pardon me not reading back; sorry if you're explaining this again) So if you start the client by itself, without the server running, it brings up the initial menu/UI, then you try to connect to a new single player game, and it crashes and reports the timeout? niwla23[m]: yes Vagabond[m]: then if you start a dedicated server, and point the client to your local IP address (but not `localhost` or `0.0.0.0`), you can connect and play as expected? Vagabond[m]: * then if you start a dedicated server on your machine, and point the client to your local IP address (but not `localhost` or `0.0.0.0`), you can connect and play as expected? niwla23[m]: yes niwla23[m]: and 127.0.0.1 also times out Vagabond[m]: Yeah, that sounds like something wrong with the loopback interface sfan5: !op sfan5: to whoever asked last time: irc.minetest.net now has HTTPS clavi: wasn't me but nice clavi: sfan5: would be cool if it 301 redirected to https too Calinou: and look into enabling HSTS, ideally pere: hi. can minetest show its 3d screen in a VR/AR type setup, where the left half of the screen go to one eye, and the right half go to the other? pere: Found and a 3d option sidebyside in the menu, and it kind of renders side by side, but the world loading did not work right and I could not move. :( tango_: gah, apparently xpm2 are NOT supported as textures, it was a fluke in my testing 8-/ tango_: oh this is so stupid, they support ppm 8-/ tango_: I want to creat an item that doesn't stack, cannot be used for digging, but has a special “passive” effect when held 04L​one_Wolf: Set stack_max on a craftitem to 1 tango_: and create a standard item instead of a tool? anon5[m]: Why is zoom disabled when FOV is set as a multiplier? niwla23[m]: hi big_caballito[m]: 👋 niwla23[m]: is this now bridged to IRC? niwla23[m]: i cant see history big_caballito[m]: Yes, this is the IRC channel big_caballito[m]: I think you can't see the history before you joined the room niwla23[m]: are you on IRC or matrix? big_caballito[m]: Matrix big_caballito[m]: If you just joined, you can't see history from before you joined specing: tango_: like a torch? tango_: specing: if torch lit the world around you while you wielded them, yes, but not specing: It does on servers tango_: wat specing: it's a mod that does that specing: there's* tango_: woah I want it specing: tango_: expand your horizons, play MP :P tango_: what'sMP tango_: anyway, I'm trying to write a dowsing mod as a way to learn the MT api specing: MultiPlayer tango_: so when you hold it you get information about nearby “nodes of interest” specing: you want an ore detector, lol? tango_: yes, but done in a pseudo-realistic way and not too aggressive tango_: the idea is that the basic rod only dowses water specing: "dowses"? tango_: but you can augment them with ingots of the appropriate material to get a detector for that material tango_: specing: isn't it called dowsing? tango_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing tango_: I'm not sure if the verb to dowse exists though 8-D specing: ahhh tango_: oh yes it does specing: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dowsing tango_: yeah tango_: so it will only help you detect ores after you're already found one of the specific type tango_: so I think I'm at a good point with the mod already tango_: should be able to test it with water now tango_: but I wanted to make sure that the item is not placeable tango_: one question I have is if it's possible to add some kind of arbitrary (immutable) attribute to craftitems tango_: e.g. I would like to add a dowsing table with the information about what can be dowsed and how far specing: I think it'd be better if you managed to convince oregen to spawn veins among nothingness tango_: I'm going for something like this http://sprunge.us/ZvUzX4?lua tango_: specing: this mod can be used on existing worlds 8-D specing: tango_: so could a new oregen tango_: ANYWAY 10c​Hyper: How can i migrate to a developer on the minetest.net forum? thx for info. cu cHyper 10c​Hyper: and why is the forum so lagggyyyyyy.. sorry but thats a big problem why does celeron55 nothing ..... to improve the speed 😉 tango_: does find_node_near find the closest node within the given range? or any node? 04L​one_Wolf: Where did you find that function? tango_: Lone_Wolf: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/map/environment.html#finding-nodes tango_: maybe it's recent? tango_: seems to be good enough for my purposes sfan5: I believe it's the closest sfan5: but the api doesn't seem to make that guarantee 04L​one_Wolf: Oh, I misread that. It returns the closest IIRC MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Oblomov -> 03minetest/minetest: Show RTT in ms with 2 digits of precision (#10573) 13a701d24 https://git.io/JTD5j (152020-10-29T19:09:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Player physics: Ensure larger dtime simulation steps (#10563) 132dff3dd https://git.io/JTDdE (152020-10-29T19:15:46Z) tango_: I'm surprised chat_send_player doesn't accept a player as first argument tango_: what does this message mean? tango_: 2020-10-29 20:41:33: ERROR[Main]: Ignoring escape sequence 'T@default' in translation tango_: I was hoping to do a string.format(S("You sense %s %s"), target_name, genloc) where target_name and genloc are strings sfan5: translations have replacements that look like @1 @2, use them tango_: ah makes sense tango_: can I have something that if burned provides a leftover? 09w​war: Make fire spreads on, not sure... tango_: wow my first working lua mod tango_: I'm so excited tango_: now I need a better UI/HUD for the effect of the rod tango_: is there a trigger/callback for when a player wields/unwields an item(stack)? sfan5: no tango_: hm tango_: I wanted to create a new hud element that would appear when the user wields this particular item, but it looks like I'll have to do it some other way then sfan5: no you can do that sfan5: but you'll need to check if the item has changed manually, in a globalstep tango_: true, but at this point I might just as well do it already from within the function that gets called when the item action triggers (be it manually or passively) tango_: ah, but then I wouldn't be able to remove the hud when the item gets unwielded tango_: uff tango_: oh well in the passive check I can check if there is a hud defined for that player and remove it if the item is not being wielded tango_: let's try this tango_: ok it works niwla23[m]: The minetest binary says it made the server but client won't connect to it. I portscanned my pc, the port is not open. Is this problem known? What can I do about it? niwla23[m]: I am on ubuntu 20.04 Calinou: niwla23[m]: the port needs to be forwarded on your router if you want the server to be accessible from outside the LAN Calinou: also, how are you creating the server? Calinou: there are 3 ways to host a Minetest server :) niwla23[m]: no i am just clicking start game Calinou: (minetestserver binary, minetest client binary with the --server switch, "Host Game" from the menu) niwla23[m]: and get a timeout niwla23[m]: Host Game and --server also broken for me Calinou: how did you install Minetest? niwla23[m]: Tried both, latest dev self-build and 5.1 from apt sfan5: some sort of sandbox in the way? niwla23[m]: nope not that I know niwla23[m]: a friend has the same problem on kubuntu rubenwardy: what address are you using to connect to the server? niwla23[m]: I just clicked start game niwla23[m]: so minetest should do that niwla23[m]: elf niwla23[m]: * so minetest should do that itself rubenwardy: minetest doesn't automatically connect clients to servers rubenwardy: are you referring to the client and server in the same instance for Start Game with host server checked? niwla23[m]: yes, also with hsot server unchecked niwla23[m]: no way to play local rubenwardy: so singleplayer isn't working? niwla23[m]: yes 09w​war: Singleplayer crashs immediatly? Happens if u have a mistake on a code of an added mode niwla23[m]: no crash, just timeout niwla23[m]: no errors in logs 09w​war: So u can join for some seconds? niwla23[m]: no niwla23[m]: connection timeout niwla23[m]: the port is closed niwla23[m]: when i check with nmap niwla23[m]: on localhost 09w​war: Weired 09w​war: Maybe try remove the mods? niwla23[m]: i did niwla23[m]: no mods 09w​war: Make a new singleplayer game rubenwardy: this won't be a mod error, but a restart might help * niwla23[m]: uploaded an image: image.png (66KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/kMvQKvegBJITRWUircFDhtEN/image.png > 09w​war: Well how connection will time out on an offline thing? niwla23[m]: you mean the whole PC? niwla23[m]: Well how connection will "> Connections on loopback are the same as on local or gloabl networ niwla23[m]: just faster niwla23[m]: okay i will try rebooting 09w​war: Can u make another singleplayer world? niwla23[m]: i tried already niwla23[m]: reboot also did not help rubenwardy: what's in debug.txt / the console? 09w​war: Well thats weired.... 09w​war: @niwla23[m]@IRC did u ever edited anything on the mt game mods? niwla23[m]: rubenwardy niwla23[m]: @niwla23[m]@IRC did u eve"> No 09w​war: Then idk crushs happened to me when i edited the code~ Sry cant help all what i can say is delete-reinstall MT :/ niwla23[m]: As i said already, i did also that tango_: damn, vector lib doesn't have a way to get the oriented angle of two vectors? tango_: or a way to get pitch and yaw of a vector tango_: I'm starting to like my dowsing mod tango_: wait there's no “food” group? ZoeS17: niwla23[m]: Does the user your running MT as have write perms on that world dir? What is the output of 'ls -la worlds/ && ls -la worlds/world1'? 08a​ppguru: the code is probably in Irrlicht tango_: I've been wary of using TNT because there's one thing that still isn't clear to me: does it “mine” or just destroy things? sfan5: minetest_game tnt also drops items tango_: so if I do it near, say, a vein of some ore, this can be a fast way to get such ore? specing: tango_: there's a chance that it'll destroy the ore tango_: specing: ah thanks 09w​war: Tnt on minecraft do not drop every blovk it destroys specing: tango_: install techpack and get yourself a few ore sieves, heh specing: tango_: oh, and terumet to x3 the ores tango_: specing: eh 8-) tango_: I was really hoping to explore all aspects of MTG before looking into mods specing: you can do both simultaneously tango_: is something like dowsing possible in the current client/server architecture? tango_: By that I mean something like this: if player is holding item X and there is a node Y within a certain distance (and possible direction) of the player, then show some kind of message / enable some kind of visual effect tango_: or would this be extremely expensive because every time the player moves the server needs to check N nodes? tango_: (keeping in mind that the Y might be outside of the player view) big_caballito[m]: you could maybe do something like have node Y output a player effect, like radiation, and the player can't tell unless they are holding X big_caballito[m]: that way it won't? be as expensive tango_: big_caballito[m]: is there a mod I could check for reference? big_caballito[m]: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20185 big_caballito[m]: maybe big_caballito[m]: idk about the detector tool tho big_caballito[m]: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=5735 too big_caballito[m]: except I can't find the code for that one ^ tango_: yeah noticed tango_: the radiation one might be an interesting base though tango_: esp if it's using this new raycasting api big_caballito[m]: the geiger counter one would have been really interesting, too bad the code's gone big_caballito[m]: .shrug rubenwardy: You can do particle and HUD effects. You can also use entities in first person in 5.4.0-dev Benrob0329[m]: Can we make entities visible to only one player yet? tango_: hm radiation register a function called on every globalstep tango_: (although it only updates at lower freq) tango_: uh, this would be relatively simple, I think tango_: at each timestep, for each player, if wielding drowing item, get node / group for which to drowse, and if find_nodes_in_area returns at least a hit do HUD effect or whatever tango_: nice tango_: can't wait to find time to write this big_caballito[m]: how can i view my ping to a server? sfan5: F5 sfan5: the RTT is the ping in seconds big_caballito[m]: thanks :) Calinou: we should probably change its display to be in milliseconds by the way Calinou: it's uncommon for people to talk about ping in seconds :) ferrumcccp: rubenwardy: what are entities in first person about tango_: Calinou: I was wondering about that. I mean, not even in my old 56K days I had SECONDS of ping tango_: although it does involve an extra division per refresh tango_: hm is there a reason why cmake insists on using the bundled jsoncpp despite me having the -dev package installed? tango_: ah I have to force it tango_: I wonder why sfan5: distros used to have broken jsoncpp versions or something tango_: I see tango_: oh uff now I need to fork the repo just for a simple patch tango_: [100%] Linking CXX executable ../bin/minetest tango_: /usr/bin/ld: warning: libgmp.so.10, needed by /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/librtmp.so.1, may conflict with libgmp.so.3 tango_: intredasting tango_: BTW, master's client seems much smoother tango_: or is it just my impression? big_caballito[m]: master's client? tango_: also I'm getting 2ms of RTT which seems a bit ... low tango_: big_caballito[m]: yeah tango_: master's client against distro server on a different machine big_caballito[m]: whtas that? tango_: big_caballito[m]: client from HEAD of git master branch big_caballito[m]: * whats that? big_caballito[m]: Oh, that makes sense, lol tango_: just did a quick test, but it seems much smoother animation wise tango_: dunno why tango_: might be just my impression tango_: I should test outside, in the jungle big_caballito[m]: i thought maybe master was a minetest fork or something lol tango_: THAT really killed the distro client at 4K on the igp ferrumcccp: how to end me ferrumcccp: i dont want to live 04L​one_Wolf: Shout 'I love TikTok' in public and stop going offtopic here tango_: wait I already have a minetest fork tango_: 7325 commits behind minetest:master. tango_: lol tango_: Calinou: there you go ;-) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10573 KacperMinetest: I can't locate the minetest.conf file, I've reffered to the wiki Calinou: KacperMinetest: which OS are you on? Are you running Minetest from a build with RUN_IN_PLACE enabled? Calinou: if RUN_IN_PLACE is enabled, minetest.conf will be in the root folder of your Minetest installation Calinou: if not, it will be in ~/.minetest on Linux, and probably %APPDATA%\minetest on Windows (not sure) KacperMinetest: It's missing from the installation folder KacperMinetest: on Linux KacperMinetest: I run a dedicated server, I need to access it to make myself admin Calinou: how did you install the server? Did you build it from source or use a distribution package? KacperMinetest: built from source KacperMinetest: runinplace enabled Calinou: you may have to create the file manually if it's a server build Calinou: stop the server, create minetest.conf with "name = YourName" and restart Calinou: log in as YourName and you'll have all privileges KacperMinetest: I think I've tried that already, but I wll try again and report back KacperMinetest: It worked, thank you! KacperMinetest: How to turn on creative mode for myself on the server? sfan5: /grantme creative KacperMinetest: thanks 09w​war: @KacperMinetest@IRC#0000 do /grantme all 04L​one_Wolf: ❌ tango_: lua api question: I want to check if the item the player is wielding belongs to a certain group tango_: player.get_wielded_item() gives me an ItemStack. by a quick look at https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/class-reference/#methods_2 there's no API to check if the item is in a specific group 04L​one_Wolf: minetest.get_item_group() or something like that 04L​one_Wolf: Returns 0 if doesn't exist IIRC tango_: ah, from the name greeter: is it possible to report spam on the minetest forums? 04L​one_Wolf: Should be a report button in the form of an exclamation mark greeter: ah i see it now. thank you 13V​ili: Is the Android version playable now? I tried to couple of years ago and it was not really nice experience tango_: vili: depends on your treshold for playable tango_: the controls are still a bit finnicky, and doing precision placement right is nigh impossible, but you can do stuff tango_: I've also experienced from time to time frequent server desyncs + disconnect tango_: but this might be connection-related tango_: (problem is, I've seen it happen even on local wifi) tango_: do keep in mind I'm working on a phone with a ridiculous aspect ratio (nearly 2:1), so a tablet and/or something with a more sensible aspect ratio might work better tango_: yeah, dungeon and cave exploration _seriously_ needs a better mapping facility specing: time for CSM 3d mapper? specing: Hmm, why is core.localplayer sometimes nil? sfan5: it's nil until the player is initialized sfan5: e.g. at startup Aris: huh, interesting specing: sfan5: it's consistently nil today in globalstep, it wasn't nil for the past month sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sfan5: report a bug specing: can't, minetest has no ethically/morally acceptable bug reporting facility BuckarooBanzai: specing: this is about the github thing, is it? specing: BuckarooBanzai: yes ferrumcccp: then what s wrong with github issues specing: it's proprietary, nobody will migrate off without being forced, they block access to developers from US sanctioned countries BuckarooBanzai: so does gitlab btw... specing: not to mention the latest debacle with youtube-dl specing: BuckarooBanzai: self-hosted GitlabCE does not, neither does sourcehut or notabug ferrumcccp: u shpuld be thankful ferrumcccp: i live in china BuckarooBanzai: notabug isn't usable anyway, don't know about sourcehut. Self hosted gitlab _is_ nice but that won't help with community building if you just create an island... rubenwardy: specing: you can report on the forums rubenwardy: Also, youtube-dl are idiots and GitHub did nothing wrong rubenwardy: They shouldn't have had tests that pirated music rubenwardy: The music and entertainment industry also sucks but eh specing: rubenwardy: that's true about y-dl sfan5: specing: I'd be very surprised if sourcehut allowed developers from US sanctioned countries to use their platform sfan5: since they're developed by an US citizen and hosted in the US specing: Hmm specing: I thought he was german Calinou: Codeberg is accessible since it's hosted in th EU Calinou: the EU* Calinou: as in, it's accessible to people in US embargo'd countries Calinou: it makes sense to have a read-only mirror there, but we don't have enough people to check for issues in two places 10c​Hyper: How can i add a german wiki page to the wiki of minetest.net ?? thx for info !! cu cHyper Calinou: create a page with the following name: Page Name/de Calinou: e.g. Torch/de 10c​Hyper: thx @Calinou 10c​Hyper: @Calinou how do I add a page i only know how to modify a existing page? thx for info. Calinou: search for the page name using the search bar, then use the "create this page" link in the error message that appears Calinou: "Create the page "Your page name/de" on this wiki!" Calinou: make sure a corresponding English version exists for the page first :) 10c​Hyper: @Calinou thx for helping. i am new to add/modify wiki entries... specing: Why does localplayer.get_wield_index return 0-indexed index? specing: in CSMs VanessaE: so tell me something, did anyone ever write a comprehensive mod to address this? VanessaE: ttps://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1235 VanessaE: seeing how paramat in his usual dictatorial stance has basically killed mtg VanessaE: er https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1235 04L​one_Wolf: I did a model for Nodecore that supports MC skins. Just needs a few animation improvements 04L​one_Wolf: It also has a wave anim that NC players love to death VanessaE: well the short version being: does something exist that supports 3x arms, 4px arms, and both 64x32 and 64x64 format, and also allows HD skins :) VanessaE: and which works with 3darmor VanessaE: (I provided suitable Minetest player models in that ^ issue, I just wonder if anyone ever put them into use with a proper automatic detection of the skin format and hence automatic model selection) VanessaE: I've been out of the loop for a long while, a combination of personal issues and burnout VanessaE: been kinda thinking about getting active in MT again, but I don't want to pour my time into something if it's dead or not needed sfan5: in any case MTG is officially frozen ("dead" if you prefer) https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2710 sfan5: perhaps a fork can fill the void it's going to leave, but it'll need a clear vision VanessaE: yeah I know. VanessaE: though by "dead" I meant whatever random thing I might think of addressing i.e. something no one wants VanessaE: didn't actually mean mtg itself there sfan5: oh VanessaE: ("killed" also didn't mean "dead" but more like "resolved not to do any more work") sfan5: Minecraft skin format seemed to be a pretty popular feature request VanessaE: yup VanessaE: sfan5: the thing that turned me off was that I went through the trouble of providing models and outlining a simple algorithm that could use existing code, and still got shot down VanessaE: (that info is buried inside the 170-some "hidden items" in 1235) sfan5: that's understandable sfan5: I can't remember the reasons in this case but in general it's frustrating dealing with paramat's arguments why something should/shouldn't be sometimes 04L​one_Wolf: HD skins are a bit heavy on the media loading. And I don't know anyone who uses 3px skins VanessaE: EVERYone uses them now on Minecraft VanessaE: about half the skins people have submitted to me in the past couple years has been 3px VanessaE: have* VanessaE: they're popular among players who prefer a girl/woman model VanessaE: I guess skin authors gravitate to the 3px arms because they look a little more proportionally-correct? 10J​ordach: VanessaE I can always cook up a model that supports all known model types and you just set the correct material later via set properties 10J​ordach: Or automate it via a quick check of texture name 10J​ordach: player_old player_new player_slim .. player:get_player_name() 09w​war: 🍿 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid resending near blocks unnecessarily. 1368cd93b https://git.io/JTP2S (152020-10-27T19:08:44Z) VanessaE: Jordach: like I said, I already provided working models. but meh. Flitzpiepe: hello everyone 11J​onathon: hi big_caballito[m]: 👋 tango_: wow * tango_: just went through the comments for #1235 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1235 -- Remove liquid_finite and weather by proller tango_: ah, MTG issue tango_: lol tango_: good bot, bad bot ;-) elias_: hello, can anyone help me with minetest hacks? I don't understand how to install them VanessaE: hacks like what?> 09w​war: Lol VanessaE: Well if you mean things like fly, clipping, super speed, always daylight, you should not expect help of that kind from here, the project's main channel. I'm pretty sure we don't, as a general rule, support "hacks" that facilitate cheating. 09w​war: Fly, fast no-clip and these things called "cheat" hecks: Hey, any clue why ansi escapes don't seem to work in minetest's console output? I'd like to color some stdout messages but I can't. 09w​war: Why everyone here is hecks or wants hacks? 🤔 Aris: lol idk SwissalpS: hecks: have you tried minetest.colorize() ? SwissalpS: that's what beerchat mod uses to colour text hecks: but I mean *stdout* in particular, that is, print() hecks: something is magically blocking ANSI sequences from working in there, not just color but all of them 09w​war: Where are u trying this? SwissalpS: oh, sorry. missunderstood that one :/ hecks: Just code called from init.lua trying to print some terminal control sequences into stdout Calinou: which OS are you on? How are you trying to print the escape codes? Calinou: there are at least 2 ways to input an escape code, if not 3 Calinou: e.g. \e[1m, but there's one that also involves \x and a bunch of other characters Calinou: and you could also use a Lua function that enters the Unicode codepoint directly into the string Calinou: (that's how you print colored messages to stdout in Godot for instance) 05C​alinou: (wow, the Discord bridge can pick up my avatar? that's pretty nice) hecks: it doesn't really matter, \e and \x1b translate to the same ascii code Calinou: ah yes, it was \x1b Calinou: is there a function in Lua to append a Unicode codepoint directly? hecks: there might be a luajit extension for unicode sequences Calinou: https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/2308#issuecomment-441663751 Calinou: you'd have to do something like this, but in Lua hecks: anyway my terminal is xterm-compatible and everything works in raw luajit hecks: but minetest makes the sequences not work somehow hecks: I can't use my lua debugger in MT because of this, because it has a curses-like display hecks: the fishy thing is that I found no code or documentation suggesting that escapes are stripped 04L​one_Wolf: !tell elias_ /grantme all perrier: Now specializing in pumpkin bread. Pie-jacker875: I want to modify technic chainsaws so that they also act as swords big_caballito[m]: Dude that'd be cool Pie-jacker875: I haven't gotten it to work and I don't really know what I'm doing Pie-jacker875: though it'd be pretty hilarious if it also made big blood splatter Pie-jacker875: oh it'd also be nice if the hotbar worked like Half-Life weapon selection Pie-jacker875: where you press the number on your keyb multiple times to select something further down Pie-jacker875: or maybe I'm misremembering how that worked big_caballito[m]: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/ big_caballito[m]: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest big_caballito[m]: Never really got into modding myself big_caballito[m]: But good luck! Pie-jacker875: I think I'm too incompetent to do HL style hotbar but I'll keep messing with this chainsaw big_caballito[m]: Cool, you should share it when you're done :D Pie-jacker875: I think there's a typo in the channel rules Pie-jacker875: "degrogatory" big_caballito[m]: No that means no words or phrases referring to alcohol negatively big_caballito[m]: Lol swift110: daoh wow * jonadab: imagines what a green chainsaw MkII would do in combat. fossrox: If I would like to provide server side textures, where I should place them and how should I name them so they can be accessed by mods? fossrox: I ask this question in correlation to dynamic media, I successfully fetch media and can place it in world's tree structure but I did not found a way to display the file fossrox: in short, the mod does not find it fossrox: I would like to rephrase the question because it's not about static ./minetest/textures/server. Where exactly I should store dynamic media that I fetch from a remote server in order to be able to display them to the players? sfan5: the world folder works fossrox: sfan5: it should be /textures/_.png > fossrox: ? sfan5: there is no specific recommendation but what you suggest would be a sane way to do it fossrox: hmm, I tried, and even if file is there and I reconnect, the server could not find render it stating it cannot find it :| fossrox: in other approach I've made as subfolder /fetched and write works but I could not load it sfan5: if you use dynamic_add_media the path is irrelevant, if you want the server to load the files on startup it needs to be a textures folder like with any mod sfan5: (once added dynamic media is not persistent across restarts) fossrox: I use minetest.dynamic_add_media("world/textures/mod_file_name.png") -- this seems correct, right? fossrox: maybe I do not fully understand how to reference media added that way... sfan5: should be minetest.dynamic_add_media(minetest.get_worldpath() .. "/textures/mod_file_name.png") fossrox: sfan5: yes, that's exactly what I do sfan5: that should work as long as the function returns true fossrox: it seems it does sfan5: you can reference the texture using mod_file_name.png then fossrox: but I cannot use media added that way in item/node definitions, because the registration is done on startup time, right? sfan5: correct fossrox: is it fine as well if the mod name contains _ ? sfan5: yes sfan5: but if you have the media before startup, why would you use dynamic_add_media at all? fossrox: I'm just trying to understand how media work in minetest, so I tried different things fossrox: so where actually I can use dynamic textures? in formspecs? fossrox: in texture modifiers? sfan5: entity textures, formspecs, sounds fossrox: great! fossrox: sfan5: thank you, I gained much more clarity, I will play with it more, can I come back to you with more questions if I would get stuck again? sfan5: just ask here, I might not be around but someone will usually be fossrox: thanks :) fossrox: sfan5: I've got it working in formspecs! thank you so much for your support! fossrox: does the dynamic_add_media automatically pushed the media to all connected players, or only to the player that views the formspec? sfan5: all fossrox: and if I would like to inspect in general what files the client received from server, where I should look on gnu/linux box? rubenwardy: client/cache contains unnamed files rubenwardy: Location of that depends on the type of Minetest install fossrox: thank you, so on my machine it seems to be ~/.cache/minetest/media fossrox: I would like to ask you about options that you could recommend by experience: I would like to create some kind of NPCs that can be aware if player is around and for example start a dialog, be able to walk from point A to be B (defined earlier), so some interactive story could be created, could you recommend some existing solutions/workflow? ferrumcccp: mobs_redo or mobkit, and model the mob after humans fossrox: ferrumcccp: thank you perrier: Hey guise I actually like android better since I learned to use the controls because sitting in a chair gives me back pain and the mouse makes my hand hurt. I can play the tablet laying down so it's a liberatory experience just a little culture shock going from desktop to touchscreen. perrier: I signed up for beta testing too. perrier: Actually the mouse does work for looking around but you have to hold the button down and the keyboard works normally so it may be doable I'll have to keep trying. tango_: hm my son has “invented” some kind of mixed game style (on paper): it has the discovery element of survival and the infinite resources of creative. every time you mine a new kind of block or craft a new item, you get an infinite stack / indestructible tool tango_: would that be implementable in MT? I_am_Grid: yes, tango_, worst case scenario each block can have an override replenishing it in Lua tango_: I_am_Grid: I'll have a look into it. tango_: (thanks) I_am_Grid: yw. I'm talking about something along the lines of using minetest.register_node(" : default:cobble",...) for overrides and on_place, but there should be a better way for the generic use tango_: I_am_Grid: yeah, I would guess such massive lua overrides for all mineable blocks would be a PITN tango_: even just performance-wise cheapie: tango_: Rather simple way to do it, if somewhat less elegant: make a custom creative inventory (or borrow parts out of some other creative inventory mod to do it), but put in an "add to list" slot - anything dropped in there, assuming it's not in the not_in_creative_inventory group, gets added to the creative inventory list. tango_: cheapie: interesting. and if it's a wearable item, it resets the wear cheapie: I suppose it could, but with it then being in the creative inventory you could just grab a new one whenever. tango_: cheapie: aren't tools non-stackable anyway? cheapie: I'm not sure if that's *always* the case, but yeah. tango_: so, the only truly non-renewable blocks are dirt, sand, gravel, ores and clay? tango_: in MTG tango_: the autojump feature in the android version is useful when walking around, but extremely annoying around fences Follpvosten[m]: I want to write a really simple mod which just force-displays the minimap in the hud. How would I do that in MTG 5? Follpvosten[m]: I tried to register a command and use hud_set_flags with minimap and minimap_radar set to true if the player running the command is on the current server. Read the code for orienteering as well as a part of the mod book to get the idea, but it doesn't seem to work. (Is this even the right channel? lol) Follpvosten[m]: Nevermind it actually works. I just had to turn it on client-side (which is a simple keybinding lol) Follpvosten[m]: Nope, nevermind the nevermind. Doesn't actually work. MxCraven: Hey, how can I add mods to a server? I have a modpack (minetest_extended), but I can't find how to add extra mods to it. Emerald2: You mean the game by PetiAPocok? 09s​rinivas: to a server that you have shell access to? or do you mean a third party server? MxCraven: To a server I have shell access to sfan5: the easiest way is to extract mods to a "worldmods" folder inside your world folder (create it if it doesn't exist) MxCraven: Ah, okay MxCraven: When I make my server I have "--worldname extended" but it says that doesn't exist, and either generates or uses "world" MxCraven: If I change the folder name to "extended" will that break anything? MxCraven: I'm likely going to swap packs a lot, so want to know how to keep different worlds separate. Weird that it doesn't generate under that name if it can't find it though sfan5: what you want is --world ./extended instead MxCraven: I'm running the server from the debian package installed in /usr/games/minetest, so would I just use a full path? MxCraven: It generates the world in ~/.minetest/worlds sfan5: yes MxCraven: Nice, thanks :3 tango_: hm I'm getting the impression that wheat grows more slowly (if at all) when I'm underground MxCraven: Is there any reason I can't just change the folder name of my world to change what loads? FeXoR: Zlo: I guess so :D FeXoR: Ah, split tubes, thanks! ;) Daisae: Is there some new walk camera lurching feature? Daisae: I have view_bobbing_amount = 0 , but the camera still seems to lurch forward faster with steps. Daisae: running with git head Daisae: about a week old MxCraven: Have you got a sprint thing on? Daisae: binary is a week old, minetest_game is up to date. Daisae: Yes. Daisae: sprinting /fast is enabled, but not being used at the moment. Daisae: lurching is when not sprinting MxCraven: The sprint mod might increase FoV when it starts up Daisae: also happens when sprinting. Daisae: No mod for spinting. it is only fast being enabled. MxCraven: Ah, right. No idea then WiseMonk: Hello guys, can I remove log.h and log.cpp from the sources? or will it break the game? because i need to make my server as lightweight as possible sfan5: you can replace the methods with stubs sfan5: but I don't know why you'd specifically look at the logging MxCraven: What are you running this thing on? (I'm not gonna try and change your mind or anything, I just want to know what low spec stuff people are using) WiseMonk: im using a shared server WiseMonk: and its only one core 3.20 GHz WiseMonk: so I guess logs would make big difference^^ Daisae: Hangglider is behaving differently now also. It starts to drop faster and faster, even if I re-jump. There is no update to the mod. ferrumcccp: hei Daisae: Hmmm. I am getting big delays on some actions: planting seeds, opening parachute. I had this happen once before. Wish I could remember if I found the cause then. 04L​one_Wolf: In singleplayer? Daisae: I'm playing locally. 04L​one_Wolf: huh ferrumcccp: parachute? 04L​one_Wolf: hang glider I think Daisae: glider, yes Daisae: hang glider, not parachute. ferrumcccp: what is it is it a mod? sorry 4 being n00b 04L​one_Wolf: Yeep specing: Daisae: slow computer + loads of intensive mods? Daisae: Not a slow computer. Many mods yes. I did just add a few new ones, but haven't made their nodes yet: tubelib2 techpack micupack symmetool ferrumcccp: how to kill myself ferrumcccp: iN.real life tango_: ferrumcccp: contact the suicide hotline of your country, they're experts WiseMonk: How can I fix that error please? ERROR[Main]: No world path specified or found. Krock: provide a world path directly WiseMonk: where Krock: are you talking about minetestserver or the client (GUI)? WiseMonk: server Krock: cli argument --worldpath /path/to/my/world Krock: actually just "--world". "--woldpath" doesn't exist Krock: optimally "minetestserver --worldlist path" contains your world, requiring only a world name as argument WiseMonk: ah ok WiseMonk: thank, WiseMonk: I was donig it with --worldname but without --worldpath WiseMonk: without worldlist MinetestBot: 02[git] 04luk3yx -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix CSMs on arm64 (#10553) 1361a1963 https://git.io/JToUX (152020-10-25T17:01:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Shaders for Android (GLES 2) (#10506) 13707c8c1 https://git.io/JToU1 (152020-10-25T17:01:03Z) Lone_Wolf[m]: !tell TenPlus1 When downloading a tar of https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_water Firefox detects it as malaware MinetestBot: Lone_Wolf[m]: yeah, sure, whatever 04L​one_Wolf: wait Lone_Wolf[m]: oh, thought the bot died. Just left when doing nothing sfan5: I think that might be up to google safebrowsing Lone_Wolf[m]: I don't think I have google in use sfan5: you don't need google (the search engine) or google chrome to have google safebrowsing in your browser rubenwardy: I doesn't for me rubenwardy: oh wait it does tango_: OK, tricky node placement in android is ... impossible tango_: I'm trying to think about a possible UI solution that would make it easier, since we can't assume we have a cursor tango_: maybe double-tapping could “zoom in” to the surface that has been double tapped, to allow more careful placement tango_: or maybe we can use triple-tapping for that, or something Daisae: ferrumcccp: Don't ask women for advice. They fail at it much more often than men. 04L​one_Wolf: To kill yourself just keep acting like a teenager no matter what your age is 04L​one_Wolf: runs perrier: I made a lot of progress on android today as far as learning to use the controls. perrier: I'm playing 2 clients on my map 1 on laptop and 1 on tablet. perrier: pyramids perrier: big_caballito[m]: I made you a rope box and put it in your chest. I'll be afk for a while have to mow grass. andrew_znc: perrier: I'm not sure if this channel is for ingame conversation? perrier: sorry should have used memoserv SwissalpS: is there a better way to do this: local max = ItemStack(item_name):get_stack_max() SwissalpS: in terms of being faster and less memory usage 04L​one_Wolf: Didn't realize it was that slow 04L​one_Wolf: Unless your profiler is reporting that slowing everything down it's probably fine 04L​one_Wolf: I see that method used quite a lot rubenwardy: `minetest.registered_items[item_name].stack_max` is also an option rubenwardy: only works with exact item names though rubenwardy: ItemStack() will support aliases and full item strings SwissalpS: item_name can be node-name or item-name but it is always the correct full form rubenwardy: in which case the registered_items method will work SwissalpS: I see it a lot too, am writing something that will call this a lot in a loop, so I'm trying to be gentle SwissalpS: thankyou rubenwardy and Lone_Wolf :) big_caballito[m]: hey v-rob, how will formspecs look/be different in 5.4.0? Krock: no different than 5.3.0 Krock: at least so far. there might be some PRs in that area coming prior next release big_caballito[m]: Ok cool 👌 tango_: I'm not sure I understand how the underground minimap is supposed to work tango_: does it show things at your level? higher above? rubenwardy: it shows the amount of air around you fleeky: has anyone gotten those minecraft shader packs to work with minetest by any chance ? tango_: rubenwardy: in the three dimensions or only in the same plane? rubenwardy: 3 dimensions perrier: Is there a way to make android minetest use mouse controls like the desktop? sfan5: I believe there is no code to support mouse input on android in Irrlicht perrier: Maybe install the desktop version? perrier: I'll just learn to use the touch screen. perrier: There is some mouse input. perrier: clicks go through and you can grab the screen but not control movement like on desktop. KacperMinetest: bash minetestserver 04L​one_Wolf: Wait, is that how you're supposed to launch programs? I just ./minetestserver perrier: I started a dedicated server without the ./ perrier: !up 69.247.56.186:30003 MinetestBot: 69.247.56.186:30003 is up (130ms) Noclip: KacperMinetest, @Lone_Wolf: Launching it with bash seems to be the issue. Noclip: If I do "bash minetest" I get an error. Noclip: But "bash firefox" works, just don't ask me why. 😂 Emerald2: I just type the name of the program and it looks through various directories where programs would be found until it finds it. Noclip: Emerald2: Yea but that only works if your programm is within one of those directories that are specified in the PATH variable. Emerald2: True. Noclip: And if it's not you either have to execute it via the full path or put "./" in front of it in case it's in your working directory. KacperMinetest: Yeah, using bash was the problem Noclip: KacperMinetest: Running a file with "bash filename" only works if your file is a bash script but not if it's a binary file. Emerald2: I'd never heard of running either that way. Noclip: If you put "#!/bin/sh" or "#!/bin/bash" in the first line of your bash script and make the file executable you can also run it with "./filename". Normally you don't run execute things with "bash filename". You should really get that weird idea out of your head. Noclip: Emerald2: "bash [options] [command_string | file]" Noclip: If you run a bash script with "bash filename" you don't have to make it executeable and you can leave out the "#!/bin/bash" headline. Emerald2: Yeah I knew about that first bit being the way to do it. SX: oh that "include -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1", is that basically portable minetest (as in common portable software distributions)? SX: been playing with symlinks to keep sanity, that sounds a lot better if I got it right :) 04L​one_Wolf: Ye, portable minetest tango_: I wish MT had directional lightss 8-P 09s​rinivas: hmm, it could be implementable with particles? tango_: srinivas: in what sense? tango_: my idea with a directiona light would be that it only lights up blocks in a certain direction, but with the benefit that it decays more slowly (say 1 every 4 or 8 blocks) tango_: if I remember how lighting was done in MT, this isn't something you can readily implement 09s​rinivas: well, you create particles with their own low glow, and it may just about work out 11I​hrFussel: Do particles actually emit light? I know entity glow doesn't anon5[m]: no anon5[m]: only light source blocks and the sun emit light 02B​lais3: meep meep blaise: meep meep 09s​rinivas: oh well 09s​rinivas: !tell tango_ looks like i was wrong about that implementation of particles 09s​rinivas: /tell !tell tango_ looks like i was wrong about that implementation of particles tango_: srinivas: np, I'm online and I've seen it blaise: lol tango_: but thanks anyway 8-) tango_: is it possible for nodes to have connections specifications based on the node they are connecting to? Wuzzy: tango_: ? Wuzzy: tango_: look for "connects_to" in lua_api.txt. but i don't think i understand what you want tango_: Wuzzy: very poorly phrased on my side, sorry. I'll try to explain with an example: consider the wall for example. When it's “alone” it appears like a post, but when it “connects” (e.g. to a nearby wall or stone block) its appearance changes due to the connecting part of the box tango_: this connecting part seems to be independent from the type of the node it connects to Wuzzy: oh ok. tango_: so I was wondering if it's possible to specify different forms or textures for the connection based on the node type Wuzzy: if a node connects, there can only be one connection style, sorry Wuzzy: you cannot change how the connection looks, you can only determine *when* the node connects tango_: I see 8-/ Wuzzy: what would always work as a workaround is by regiestering new nodes ... which sucks a little tango_: how would that work? tango_: you can change a node based on a nearby node? Wuzzy: well you need to figure out the workaround yourself, sorry Wuzzy: minetets does not help you here Wuzzy: and obviously, client speedup flies out of the window, no matter what you do tango_: 8-/ Wuzzy: tango_: fyi, before we had connects_to, there was already a walls mod Wuzzy: the trick was just registering a node for every possible wall/connection node, and needed a LOT of callbacks to update neighbor walls by hand, etc tango_: that's a horrible hack 10J​ordach: Wuzzy re sprite based players and attachments 10J​ordach: I don’t believe there is a way to cull the sprite cisually 10J​ordach: Hiding the sprite removes attachment visibility as it then removes the parent 10J​ordach: In other words parent visibility affects attachments 10J​ordach: Easiest way would be to set the texture to an invisible pixel 10J​ordach: But that wouldn’t affect other clients just local CAO 10J​ordach: Fortunately because of third person mode resetting visibility for attachments I could hook that and specifically set sprite mode manually Wuzzy: why cant the sprite just not be hidden depending on the camera mode? 10J​ordach: Because that would remove any first person attachment 10J​ordach: Because parent visibility overrides attachments 10J​ordach: I believe the hack for checking object type might actually return false for meshes 10J​ordach: Non meshes like sprites 10J​ordach: I’ll tear apart content cao later Wuzzy: ??????????????????? Wuzzy: wtf? Wuzzy: are we talking about the same bug? 10J​ordach: Yes 10J​ordach: The hack kicks in when player mesh is set 10J​ordach: Because of the camera being exactly centred on the sprite 10J​ordach: It’s effectively invisible big_caballito[m]: is there a 16px TP that support etheral? big_caballito[m]: the 32px textures are ugly 10J​ordach: local man almost executes a minetestserver on iPhone with emulated x86 10J​ordach: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/769269319439613982/image0.png Krock: just a few instructions missing Krock: pretty cool tho 10J​ordach: considering it's a VM on ARM64V7 10J​ordach: if the app actually gets SSE2+ in the VM 10J​ordach: it may actually be possible to properly get Minetest on iOS without the usage of multicraft big_caballito[m]: perrier: My connection timed out, that's why I left big_caballito[m]: Is that on my end or yours? 13G​enshin: 💪 Fixer: damn, they dmcaed youtube-dl... wtf big_caballito[m]: ? cheapie: Odds are someone will just fork it and it'll reappear elsewhere. I wouldn't worry about it too much. 04L​one_Wolf: Ouch Calinou: you can probably grab it from pip in the meantime Calinou: pip install --upgrade --user youtube-dl Calinou: that's where I grab it from, so it's always up-to-date Calinou: https://pypi.org/project/youtube_dl/ Calinou: it's with a underscore actually, but both work cheapie: Also available here, among other places: http://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/y/youtube-dl/youtube-dl_2020.09.14.orig.tar.gz Montresor: 2020.09.20 is the latest version, however. a1fa: hello garywhite: hello a1fa a1fa: so I made myself a server admin with name = "player_name" a1fa: is there anything else that needs to be changed? a1fa: but it's not letting me /grantme all garywhite: Is there another admin account? a1fa: no garywhite: hmm, is the server just in singleplayer? a1fa: not sure, mineclone2, and creative mode a1fa: i see the user_priv table has me as shout a1fa: and interact a1fa: should i drop admin in there too? a1fa: is the format all? garywhite: adding the privs priv might solve your problem garywhite: since admin isn't a priv in MT afaik a1fa: insert into user_privileges (id,privilege) values (30,privs); garywhite: worth a try I guess a1fa: that did it garywhite: hooray a1fa: are there any more pre-fabs /spawnstruct to be downloaded? specing: Hmm,how does one use the wireshark dissector plugin? It's there in the GUI but it is not dissecting anything specing: nvm, figured it out.. I hate the long dropdowns with no search fluxflux: nice, i just found the wireshark dissector a couple days ago :) fluxflux: wireshark is great, but it's definitely a case of "UI designed by engineers for engineers" fluxflux: core devs: any input on the original question i posed about 5 hours ago? 10J​ordach: https://youtu.be/m_6jNUKDsGs yeeeet 13G​enshin: fluxflux, you can use !tell if you want your question to be answerd fluxflux: ah, that pings then the next time they speak, no? fluxflux: but i still have to say their name. i didn't want to ping anyone 13G​enshin: that pings them the next time they connect, so yes fluxflux: also if they're connected rn 13G​enshin: you can always ask Krock or sfan5 any question. they are usually available on IRC fluxflux: alright, i'll take your word on that. too tired rn, i'll ask them tomorrow swift110: cool tango_: is this ... an opportunity? https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/java-edition-moving-house blaise: tango_: for what? blaise: I'm not sure i really want to convert my account tbqh blaise: I used to play minecraft and minetest.. blaise: after 2021 I'll probably JUST play minetest though because fuck microsoft. tango_: blaise: I'd guess that action is going to piss off a number of minecraft players and modders tango_: so it might be an opportunity to entice them to come over to the dark side 09s​rinivas: oh, nice, maybe its time to ramp up publicity again? tango_: (for that, we'll need cookies) tango_: there's a reddit thread here on the topic https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/jfhl6i/minecraft_java_edition_will_soon_be_requiring/, MineTest has been mentioned, but not always positively 09s​rinivas: i can bake a few, theyy may be a bit rocky, but meh tango_: MTG should have more recipes 8-P sfan5: microsoft making unpopular changes can bring in some new users sfan5: but truth is minetest is not a good minecraft repalcement sfan5: replacement* tango_: I haven't played MC in forever, what is the reason for that? tango_: (aside from the MTG limits) sfan5: it's missing many small features that make MC into the nice game it is tango_: sfan5: some examples? Quiark: shaders lol sfan5: a fishing rod with drawn line can't be implemented, there are no water entry particles or sounds, no proper bow animations possible sfan5: small things like that zughy[m]: sfan5: not yet rubenwardy: papercuts rubenwardy: the term for smaller things that collectively add together to make a big thing rubenwardy: although, that's more of a UX term I think zughy[m]: Now I understand what Linkin Park meant with papercut. I need some time now zughy[m]: yeah, a nice UI will change the game radically zughy[m]: *engine, don't punch me rubenwardy: Minetest is in a grey area between engine and game, it's not really either especially zughy[m]: Minecraft is what it is because of contributors, ie modders, skin creators, pluginners etc. people like it because you can shape the game basically how much you want zughy[m]: if MT succeeds in bringing in more contributors, it's basically done 09s​rinivas: well, along with reeling contributors in, you need to get them to stay too 09s​rinivas: so you need someway to engage them, to make them feel wanted, to get them to contribute more to the engine, to implement things that they ask for and all blaise: the only reason I never moved over to minetest purely is that I was never able to fulfill my yerning for mods in minetest that I could with minecraft blaise: most notably Immersive Engineering... 09s​rinivas: oh, you mean minecraft doesnt have stuff like digilines, technic and all? blaise: although minetest has a much better alternative than minecraft when it comes to trains.. immersive railroading kinda sucks huge whale dong 09s​rinivas: tbh, adv trains for that it is is still fairly lag inducing 09s​rinivas: so 09s​rinivas: it is often a bottleneck blaise: yeah, advtrains is still miles ahead of immersive railroading 09s​rinivas: true blaise: but I would very much love to see immersive engineering like mod in minetest... blaise: tesla era tech mod.. 09s​rinivas: hmm, what does it do though? 09s​rinivas: i am sorry, never played minecraft myself zughy[m]: blaise: yeah, Microsoft is very good with their PR and marketing guys. Also, I remember back then, Jeb (a MC core dev) used to go on the Bukkit forum quite often, he was caring about the userbase blaise: I really like technic, although I'm not honestly a fan of the modern one block modern magic devices.. Quiark: I thought it would be fun to have like Mindustry kind of game in MT, the factory part is basically already there but the tower defense part is probably not even possible? blaise: I would rather have multiblock machines... blaise: conveyor belts and turrets/chemical throwers are nice too zughy[m]: As an artist, it's all about the first impression. Like, it's a thing we do by nature. This is why imho people are pushing so much for a better UI. Even the site could be restyled, but that's a horse of a different colour zughy[m]: or idk, the font blaise: yeah.. :) blaise: are multiblock devices even possible in minetest? rubenwardy: yes rubenwardy: a single collision box can be up to 3x3x3 rubenwardy: but you can have a single machine made of multiple nodes blaise: so then, it would be feasable to clone the immersive engineering mod for minetest? rubenwardy: like nether portals blaise: what about a 5x5 block crusher? something that takes considerable resources to build that gives a reward for reaching that level of difficulty? maybe giving 2x iron grit for 1 iron ore? 09s​rinivas: hmm, multiple collision boxes? blaise: also, are there books in minetest yet? can we make manuals for mods with them? 09s​rinivas: yes you may blaise: hrmm.... 09s​rinivas: although, it may jjust be easier to implement them as a part of the inventory blaise: eh, a lot of mods have manuals that can be crafted from books and in world items.. blaise: for instance, the immersive engineering manual is crafted from a book and a lever.. blaise: tells you how to build all the mod's machines..... blaise: one of the major things that draws me to IE is the power lines.. I wonder if power lines are possible in minetest.... fossrox: Hi blaise: hello fossrox: Is it possible in minetest to use remote texture/images? 09s​rinivas: iirc minetest does support a remote a cdn blaise: when I ran my server back in 3.x and 4.x I had a machine serving stuff to clients blaise: it was very handy fossrox: srinivas, iirc minetest? can you give me some more hint? 09s​rinivas: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/9d370b78da61997f46f228cb3e4b54b8ee9295ff/minetest.conf.example#L1142 rubenwardy: fossrox: you will need to use a mod to download the textures using the HTTP API, and then use minetest.dynamic_send_media rubenwardy: assuming you mean the ability to use images from a URL fossrox: rubenwardy: it's exactly what I'm thinking about! thank you! rubenwardy: note that dynamic_send_media requires clients of 5.3.0 or above, unless they disconnect and reconnect fossrox: rubenwardy: I love your modding book, thank you so much for creating it! rubenwardy: yw fossrox: can sounds be downloaded and used as well? fossrox: srinivas, so we are able to use a cdn now and enable it through minetest config, this looks very interesting rubenwardy: except that remove media isn't CDN compatible blaise: rubenwardy: I sware I did remote file serving before 5.x... rubenwardy: that's probable remove media rubenwardy: *remote blaise: yeah.. rubenwardy: pre-5.3.0, it might be possible to download media whilst the server is loading, and place it in the media folders fossrox: didn't know that rubenwardy: fossrox: yes, sounds are supported by dynamic_add_media rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5379 blaise: so cdn is a means to do similar things? rubenwardy: A CDN is specifically a way of serving static files in a distributed manner. The remote media feature currently requires that the server responds to a POST request blaise: ah, fossrox: I'm so happy and exited to see the dynamic media, want to try it instantly blaise: I seem to be having problems with 5.3.0.. I run gentoo.. so I emerged minetest... there is apparently no minetest_game target anymore.. and I don't see minetest_game in the content browser.... blaise: anyone here run minetest from gentoo? * blaise: scratches head sfan5: I don't but you could just git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game -b stable-5 --depth=1 /usr/share/minetest/games/minetest_game * blaise: shrugs blaise: okay 09s​rinivas: is there a major difference b/w the master and the tagged release byeond the guarantee of stability? sfan5: master may not work on 5.3.0 09s​rinivas: oh, i see 09s​rinivas: also, in an aside of sorts, does the console window now trigger again with the / key? sfan5: no idea 09s​rinivas: mhm, i see, thanks fossrox: rubenwardy: I've got -- ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: Runtime error from mod 'dynamic_test' in callback environment_Step(): Mod security: Blocked attempted read from http://127.0.0.1:8080/img/test.png fossrox: and the minetest quits the world, what am I doing wrong? fossrox: the mod is in http secure mods zughy[m]: try to remove the secure environment in full zughy[m]: there should be an option for that sfan5: it looks like you're just trying to io.open() a HTTP URL sfan5: maybe there's a misunderstanding: you can have the server fetch an URL and send the media to clients, but you can't send the URL to clients and have them fetch it themselves rubenwardy: Minetest.request_http_api tango_: sfan5: by “can't be implemented” do you mean that it's impossible to achieve them within the current design of the engine? tango_: sfan5: because some of those look like client issue that should be more or less “solvable” sfan5: that "can't be implemented" is from the view of a mod/game writer sfan5: so it just means if you want to do that right now you can't because the engine doesn't give you the tools to tango_: sfan5: but it would be possible to add them to the client, in code? sfan5: sure tango_: i.e. not via mods sfan5: there are very few things that really *can't* be added tango_: so the matter is more of a way to do them in a general way rather than provide ad-hoc solutions? tango_: (honestly none of the things you mentioned seem like a deal-breaker to me, but I'm also the guy who only plays MTG) tango_: (more or less pure MTG) tango_: I mean I can see how they can be considered “nice to have”, but meh tango_: maybe I'm just not particularly demanging arydev: how i make a node not placeble rubenwardy: return itemstack in on_place, and at `not_in_creative_inventory` to groups rubenwardy: your question had already been answered in Discord rubenwardy: on_place = function(itemstack) return itemstack end rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L7172 big_caballito[m]: Hey, since MTG is no longer shipping with MT (AFAIK), can it be added to ContentDB? On my mac I have the latest 5.4.0-dev version with the same version on MTG, and it looks cool*. I would like that version of MTG on my other computers, without too much hassle. Is that a possiblity? big_caballito[m]: *cool is a very relative term here arydev: thanks big_caballito[m]: * Hey, since MTG is no longer shipping with MT (AFAIK), can it be added to ContentDB? On my mac I have the latest 5.4.0-dev version with the same version of MTG, and it looks cool*. I would like that version of MTG on my other computers, without too much hassle. Is that a possiblity? rubenwardy: I wish matrix wouldn't send the entire message again when editing, using `s/a/b` or `*b` would be nicer big_caballito[m]: Oh, does it do that, sorry heavygale: blame the bridge ^^ 12W​arr1024: Probably better would be if it could just be bridge-aware and disallow editing in selected channels. 12W​arr1024: I guess even Discord doesn't allow that though. That irks me. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up l_object.cpp (#10512) 1333b2c5f https://git.io/JTgBm (152020-10-22T15:18:01Z) perrier: !up 69.247.56.186:30003 MinetestBot: 69.247.56.186:30003 is up (125ms) perrier: finally got a lava orb 04L​one_Wolf: They're pretty rare lol perrier: I have plenty of obsidian near the surface if anyone joins. big_caballito[m]: I joined for a minute to say hi big_caballito[m]: but it was night and hard to see what it looked like fossrox: sfan5: in regard to fetching an URL and then sending media to the clients... I still need a bit of clarity on that... so is it that the minetest.dynamic_add_media takes a path to local copy of resource that I need to fetch earlier? sfan5: yes fossrox: thank you :) fossrox: sfan5: is there some recommended location to store fetched media? sfan5: unless you do something special, mods can only write to the world folder sfan5: (this makes me wonder if /tmp is an option, probably not?) fossrox: do I need to request insecure environment to write the media to that folder? fossrox: I mean to the world folder sfan5: no perrier: For anyone who plays on my server it won't always be up because I turn off my pc at night but I'll try to keep the map so your work won't be lost. specing: perrier: what's unique about your server? perrier: thirsty perrier: dwarves perrier: v6 Ingar: 10 Ingar: wops nvmnd that tango_: the big question is why do you turn off your pc at night tango_: ;-) tango_: since minetest doesn't have halloween pumpkin, my son decided we have to build one with dirt blocks tango_: the project has come to be 15x15x15 blocks in size mazes_80: Hi, does someone know what happens with elidragon server ? Is it down temporary, are they changing host, ... ? Krock: tango_: I thought farming_plus had punpkins Krock: farming_plus definitely does: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9019 fossrox: sfan5: thank you for helping, I managed to fetch the file into world's tree structure, dynamic_add_media returns true, now I wonder how can I reference that media? how to use it? sfan5: the same way you'd use one that exists in the textures/ folder of any mod perrier: tango_: I don"t like any extra noise or light. perrier: I could probably blank the screen and the fan would wind down. Maybe I will leave it on tonight as a test. perrier: I put a tpad down at a big obsidian patch. perrier: I have a cat named Fe Fe who lives with the witches. mazes_80: elidragon is up now, just maintainance I guess big_caballito[m]: how does minetest convert string seeds <-> ints? rubenwardy: strtoull rubenwardy: this will stop reading when a non-0-9 character is reached rubenwardy: meaning that the seeds "1234sdkfjbsdf" and "1234" are the same big_caballito[m]: thanks, I am trying to find a seed with a specific land feature big_caballito[m]: my current way is not very efficient big_caballito[m]: what about a seed like "MINETESTISGREAT" is that just 0? rubenwardy: yes rubenwardy: from what I can see rubenwardy: source code is at read_seed in src/util/string.cpp:376 rubenwardy: actually, I wonder if the main menu converts letters to numbers rubenwardy: doesn't appear to specing: big_caballito[m]: what specific land feature? big_caballito[m]: a large-ish (like 500x500 node) island big_caballito[m]: in valleys mg big_caballito[m]: i found one before, but lost the seed big_caballito[m]: I'm using amidstest, but its kinda slow big_caballito[m]: I was thinking I could try to make a quick python script that will generate them a lot faster big_caballito[m]: does minetestmapper generate from seed? or just from sqlite? sfan5: latter big_caballito[m]: k thanks 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/768927896307236914/mt_meme_forks.png big_caballito[m]: 🥄 perrier: so seeds need to be numbers? 13G​enshin: afaik, yes 04o​neplustwo: just convert strings into numbers fleeky: is there a python api for minetest similar to minecraft ? 04o​neplustwo: python api? 04o​neplustwo: why not lua? 04o​neplustwo: there is no python api but the next best thing is to make some sort of proxy and edit the packets being sent to the server or something fleeky: just curious fleeky: there is an ai project that would like to use an open source minecraft alternative fleeky: oneplustwo , ah thank you! 11J​onathon: there have been people who adapt the lua api to different languages in the past, although im not sure if they ever finished sfan5: similar to minecraft pi where you can place nodes from python? 04o​neplustwo: ye sfan5: if yes, then I've seen someone on the forums reimplementing that api 11J​onathon: sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13316 ? kiwi_79: Dum fleeky: sfan5: hmm neat 11J​onathon: there is also https://github.com/miney-py/miney fleeky: jonathon thanks for the links 11J​onathon: if you want a bot framework, mttbotter, for writing bots in c++ was released onto the forum a couple? weeks back 11J​onathon: i believe the author said they wanted to add a python api to it, but don't quote me on that fleeky: basically opencog wants to enter into minerl fleeky: from there channel : What we want is for the same AI that we use for Minecraft to be used in the corresponding OSS game framework w/o change except in terms of the interfacing code... I think fleeky: i believe minerl only uses minecraft unfortunately fleeky: https://minerl.io/ fleeky: some kind of competition , i imagine if opencog could win it, would be good publicity 11J​onathon: if you want the most stable thing, the lua api is the recommended way 11J​onathon: for mods fleeky: makes sense 11J​onathon: if you want a bot framework, i don't recall any others beside mtbotter fleeky: they do not need a bot framework fleeky: just the same python api fleeky: as minecraft ideally fleeky: opencog is the bot framwork , it then just talks through the python api to the game 11J​onathon: people have used //lua from python before KacperMinetest: Hello, I've succeded in running a server, however I would like to run MineClone instead of vanilla minetest, all my attempts to install it have failed so far, how do you do it? 04o​neplustwo: content tab? 04o​neplustwo: or you can download zip at git.minetest.land i think KacperMinetest: It's a dedicated server 11G​reenXenith: What have you already tried? KacperMinetest: running on Linux 11G​reenXenith: If you havent already, you need to specify the gameid when starting the server using --gameid 04o​neplustwo: so you only have shell? 04o​neplustwo: no he said he couldnt install it KacperMinetest: Yes, It's on Ubuntu, using the service command to run it 11G​reenXenith: Please specify exactly what hasnt worked KacperMinetest: where do I put the Mineclone folder? KacperMinetest: It fails to start 11G​reenXenith: "Fails to start" isnt helpful 11G​reenXenith: Does it give you an error? 04o​neplustwo: put it in games folder 11G​reenXenith: I use the .minetest games folder, but the source games folder should work too KacperMinetest: In /var/games/minetest-server ? 11G​reenXenith: /home/yourminetestuser/.minetest/games/ KacperMinetest: I did that already and it threw an error, that's hwy I came here, I thought that I must have put it in the wrong direcory KacperMinetest: I will try to replicate it now 11G​reenXenith: And what was the error? KacperMinetest: minetest-server.service - Minetest multiplayer server minetest.conf server config Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/minetest-server.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Thu 2020-10-22 22:08:53 UTC; 15s ago Docs: man:minetestserver(6) Process: 2394 ExecStart=/usr/lib/minetest/minetestserver --config /etc/minetest/minetest.conf --logfile /var/log/mi> Main PID: KacperMinetest: code=exited, status=1/FAILURE) Oct 22 22:08:53 Minetest systemd[1]: minetest-server.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE Oct 22 22:08:53 Minetest systemd[1]: minetest-server.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Oct 22 22:08:53 Minetest systemd[1]: minetest-server.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 5. Oct 22 22:08:53 Minetest systemd[1]: Stopped Minetest multiplayer server minetest.co KacperMinetest: ver config. Oct 22 22:08:53 Minetest systemd[1]: minetest-server.service: Start request repeated too quickly. Oct 22 22:08:53 Minetest systemd[1]: minetest-server.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Oct 22 22:08:53 Minetest systemd[1]: Failed to start Minetest multiplayer server minetest.conf server config. 11G​reenXenith: Have you tried reading the error? KacperMinetest: I did, went into the the configuration file, specified the world and game, it still fails 11G​reenXenith: have you tried starting the server outside of systemd? 11G​reenXenith: You should start it manually first to make sure it works 11G​reenXenith: Once it works from the command, then use the service 11G​reenXenith: From what I can tell, systemd doesnt like how something was configured KacperMinetest: Failed to open log file /var/log/minetest/minetest.log: Permission denied KacperMinetest: I will give my user permission, see if it works 11G​reenXenith: You shouldnt be running Minetest on root files 11G​reenXenith: everything should be in a user home directory 11G​reenXenith: The executable, config, everything KacperMinetest: The only way to do that is to compile it, as far as I'm aware, I've tried that and it fails to run 11G​reenXenith: How did you install minetest-server? KacperMinetest: apt-get 11G​reenXenith: From the canonical ppa or minetest devs ppa? KacperMinetest: canonical 11G​reenXenith: Server version will likely be out of date and MCL2 wont run anyway KacperMinetest: Ah, I see 11G​reenXenith: Ah, yeah I dont think minetest-server is supported anymore 11G​reenXenith: at least, I cant find it in the mtdevs ppa KacperMinetest: Minetest Stable? 11G​reenXenith: I mean technically 11G​reenXenith: but its not the server executable KacperMinetest: I see 11G​reenXenith: It comes with extra client stuff 11G​reenXenith: so you could use it, it just wouldnt be as optimal KacperMinetest: So install the minetest clinet from the ppa and then minetest --server ? 11G​reenXenith: Yeah. I recommend compiling though. KacperMinetest: Thank you for your help 11G​reenXenith: Oh 11G​reenXenith: Also KacperMinetest: i'm still here 11G​reenXenith: Regardless of which executable you use, your game data and config should still be in a home dir KacperMinetest: Yeah, I will just compile the client and the server is included? 11G​reenXenith: When you do CMake, include -DBUILD_CLIENT=0 KacperMinetest: Thanks! 11G​reenXenith: If you want to put your mods/games in .minetest, dont include -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 11G​reenXenith: Otherwise it will use data from the folders inside the build dir KacperMinetest: I've compiled it, cannot execute binary file, same issue I had when compiling before Emerald2: What's the exact error? KacperMinetest: minetestserver: minetestserver: cannot execute binary file KacperMinetest: I've tried execute permission, didn't help Emerald2: What command did you use to run it? sofar: so why does get_mapgen_object("heatmap") no longer return anything .... bizarre 09s​rinivas: is SSPL considered an open source license? 09s​rinivas: https://webassets.mongodb.com/_com_assets/legal/SSPL-compared-to-AGPL.pdf tango_: hm I was able to build beds without red wool, is the wiki information outdated? specing: one of the rules of development is that documentation is always outdated Ingar: on of the rules of development is that they don't pay me enough to write decent documentation zughy[m]: the actual rule of development is rtfm, read the fucking manual. So yes, there should be an up to date one sfan5: the closest to a manual minetest_game has is unfortuantely the wiki sfan5: !op cimbakahn: Hello! Is anyone around? heavygale: nope, only you cimbakahn: Can anyone tell from these 6 screenshots if this is a singleplayer world or a public server? https://imgur.com/a/bygc3n6 cimbakahn: HA!HA! heavygale: i dontseeany clues in those images heavygale: would guess it's single player cimbakahn: You might find this funny, but i have lost an engineering room. cimbakahn: I have only played singleplayer, and public servers from the minetest server list, so it has to be 1 of the 2. cimbakahn: Atleast the pictures give the seed and the coordinates, so maybe i can recreate the world. I would just have to setup the machines all over again. cimbakahn: I will try to recreate it. Thanks for trying to help! 11I​hrFussel: Join your most recent servers and check their map seed in F5? 11I​hrFussel: The RTT tells me that this is singleplayer 11I​hrFussel: Or local server sfan5: (they quit irc already) 11I​hrFussel: I also just saw that they already got their answer in dev ryzokuken: hi all! ryzokuken: I'm trying to run a minetest server ryzokuken: I installed a new game in /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/games and set the default_game in minetest.conf ryzokuken: buuuuut still it only runs the default minetest game ryzokuken: `ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000.` sfan5: create a new world sfan5: or rather since the location is fixed, delete (or move) the old one ryzokuken: sfan5: cool ryzokuken: lemme try that thanks ryzokuken: sfan5: worked! perfect, thanks. specing: I've tried to change my chat log level, but CSM print() still goes there :/ 04L​one_Wolf: print() printing to chat is heaven for me rubenwardy: Any recommendations for matrix home servers? testuser: testing rubenwardy: mine testuser: hmm, looking at this web-irc client 04L​one_Wolf: kiwi-irc is my goto web client Fixer: i had a problem with it not long ago Fixer: it said i'm disconnected, so i pressed reconnect... and it kinda stalled Fixer: meanwhile i've updated quassel rubenwardy: Quassel is nice, I use it currently Fixer: tho it has no file transfers (don't really need it atm) 04o​neplustwo: idk about you guys, but i really like forcing electrons to do math rubenwardy: I have rwdy.uk for file transfer tango_: BTW I have a question about singleplayer vs server tango_: let's say that I've been playing singleplayer, but now I would like other players to join in. can I do that on the same world? rubenwardy: yes rubenwardy: the singleplayer name is "singleplayer" rubenwardy: you'll have to make a new account for yourself rubenwardy: and you'll lose access to any locked chests, unless you have protection_bypass the priv tango_: rubenwardy: is that what 'Host server' does? rschulman: What is the "right" way to mod in an object (probably an entity, if I'm understanding correctly) that would connect to any of the same entities in adjacent locations and rotate around an axis at a setable speed? rubenwardy: yes tango_: rubenwardy: thanks. tango_: aside from burning, is there a difference between steel and wooden ladders? 04β​ασιλεύς Αλέξιος VI Αποκιος: Mainly aesthetics I think, though it is only breakable with a decent pickaxe so could prevent noobs from destroying it with their bare hands rubenwardy: also flamability specing: Do you people have a defined way that serious server bugs can be addressed in? specing: I found a bug in one of the widely used mods that allows me to take items off of other player's inventories rubenwardy: security policy for the engine: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/security/policy rubenwardy: if it's a bug in the mod, then try contacting the author testuser: yeah, this webclient is quite cute specing: rubenwardy: I have sent you an email. deltasquared: just investigating an odd crash in the default mod, under what circumstances could player:get_player_information() return *nil* inside an on_joinplayer() callback? it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. deltasquared: the relevant stack trace in case anyone wanted to see, it's rather short - https://a.uguu.se/5NYmBEGqarcO_bls_default_crash.txt deltasquared: I'm unsure yet if I've actually come across a legitimate engine bug. haven't been able to reproduce it yet either. sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9352#event-3294258557 deltasquared: sfan5: ah, cool. might be a hard press to get the server owner to run a dev build alas heh. thanks for the pointer. sfan5: you don't specifically need a dev build, just a patch to builtin sfan5: (though that depends on what exactly you define as "dev build") deltasquared: I think a patch to builtin could be arranged. what would have to be changed? sfan5: we don't seem to be on the same page sfan5: the bug has been fixed in 5.3.0 already deltasquared: well you're the one who said... never mind. deltasquared: so I just need to prod them to update then sfan5: if you still get the same issue you can apply the patch I posted there to builtin to debug it further deltasquared: sfan5: you appear to be contradicting yourself. how can it be fixed and still possibly require a patch sfan5: mods can provoke this crash without the engine being at fault sfan5: and the bug where the engine was at fault has been fixed deltasquared: sfan5: I don't think a mod's causing this. the player in question sometimes happens to crash very quickly after logging in. it's not for every player. sfan5: what am I supposed to say here sfan5: that information has no use unless reproduced on 5.3.0 deltasquared: sfan5: still trying to pin down the exact version anyhow, the motd has been screwed with. I'll ping back later if it's up to date. deltasquared: thanks for the info in any case. specing: player in question = me big_caballito[m]: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=382636 big_caballito[m]: why aren't the devs responding to this (other than paramat) 13G​enshin: sad but true rubenwardy: I don't find it productive to reply to that rubenwardy: I've replied to the other forum topics 10J​ordach: that's because you don't give two shits about actually developing Minetest other than the fact it gives you clout 13G​enshin: many people are mad, yet nobody wants to do anything about it 13G​enshin: feelsbadman sfan5: Productive discussion does not seem possible when one side is writing angry posts accusing other people of ulterior motives rubenwardy: that's pretty clearly rubbish sfan5: other than that there are some good points in the post 10J​ordach: https://tenor.com/view/hurry-up-get-on-with-it-impatient-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-gif-11408952 13G​enshin: > other than that there are some good points in the post Then why not talk about these points? 13G​enshin: why hide behind a wall and let it be? rubenwardy: I can reply to the points whilst ignoring the angriness I guess sfan5: why are you accusing me of hiding? is this what a good faith argument looks like? sfan5: like what the fuck sfan5: i get it sfan5: minetest dev sucks sfan5: but if you keep throwign shit at devs at every opportunity you will get nowhere sfan5: throwing* 10J​ordach: if it didn't take weeks to months to get shit merged it'd be less sliding down a waterslide of shag carpet and sharp knives 13G​enshin: That's what i kept telling people on that forum topic 13G​enshin: stop throwing shit at core devs sfan5: maybe that seems like an attractive strategy if it you get nowhere with all other strategies sfan5: @genshin yet you are doing it yourself 13G​enshin: how? sfan5: why are you accusing me of hiding? is this what a good faith argument looks like? sfan5: answer these two questions please 13G​enshin: Because you aren't participating in that topic as I hoped for you guys to be sfan5: now the second one sfan5: do you think it's a good faith argument to accuse the other party of hiding because you haven't seen the participating? 13G​enshin: of course not sfan5: THEN WHY DO IT Krock: 🔥 sfan5: you poision the whole discourse like this sfan5: arguments are not possible like this 10J​ordach: look out of all the core devs who actually you know try and get merges done are basically you and Krock at this point 13G​enshin: ^ 10J​ordach: paramat nitpicks so much i'm turning bald by the minute sfan5: i hate paramat's opinions too sfan5: but that's not relevant sfan5: and should not prevent you from having reasonable discourse with everyone else 10J​ordach: well it is because he veto's practically everything Krock: though I won't be active in the next few weeks. too busy 10J​ordach: the irony is paramat's opinion on the original sneak code caused another big issue 10J​ordach: we've been up this tree before 13G​enshin: Forgive me for calling out in such a way. im just too fustrated with the situation. sfan5: old_move was his idea? 10J​ordach: i can't remember what it was 10J​ordach: but i do remember that behaviour of his is what set it off to begin with Krock: no, that idea is based on player feedback luk3yx: How about not fighting? 10J​ordach: like that'll ever happebn 13G​enshin: I wish 13G​enshin: Im gonna go and vent. I do not wish to continue to lash out on anyone. 13G​enshin: sorry sfan5 04o​neplustwo: he vented, vote him out 13G​enshin: this isn't among us sfan5: you can idk big_caballito[m]: ? sfan5: write down your frustrations in a forum post 10J​ordach: i mean what needs to really happen is two "releases" a year 13G​enshin: already did sfan5: then it can be taken as a whole and people will not feel the need to take it personally 10J​ordach: a bug fix release, and a experimental -master like build that sometimes recieves emergency bug fixes 10J​ordach: 6 months of feature dev, 6 months of bug fixes only sfan5: sounds very inefficient 10J​ordach: how many PRs are just /sitting there/ 10J​ordach: who wants to support a 12 month old PR due to inefficient reviewing= SwissalpS: me SwissalpS: if it is worth it. it may not be worth it and that is why it is sitting around. 10J​ordach: and in those 12 months it needs at least 2-4 rebases and entire replacement of old functions because what it was targeting is now either not there, or is radically different 10J​ordach: making more work for the PR author 10J​ordach: (and or adoptee) sfan5: so maybe we need a way for devs to say "yes we want a PR for this and we want it now, so it will be reviewed in time" sfan5: then all other PRs would just be .. uhh rejected? hm 10J​ordach: i'm more thinking two lists 10J​ordach: bugfixes get higher priority than features 10J​ordach: while the feature list is what the mod makers sort of need sfan5: @genshin correction for your forum post: multicraft is not supported by coredevs, contributors automatically show up there since it has the same commits as minetest sfan5: it'd be more accurate to say that multicraft is merging changes from MT but I don't know why that'd even make a difference 13G​enshin: sfan5, :ok_hand: 10J​ordach: honestly core devs should look into review automation rubenwardy: I'm a massive proponent for automational sfan5: I don't know about others but my code reviews focus on logical mistakes in the code, code efficiency, API design and seeing if backwards compat works 13G​enshin: just edited that, thank you for clarifying sfan5: you could perhaps move one of those to an automated tool 10J​ordach: i'd drop backwards compatibility to literally one or two minor patches 10J​ordach: old MT versions keep getting supported for way too long 10J​ordach: F-Droid is hilariously outdated sfan5: you've mentioned this before and I'm wondering sfan5: is this suggestion to fix compatibility concerns from dragging down development? 10J​ordach: why should 5-9 year old mods be expected to work rubenwardy: F-Droid is outdated due to binary dependencies, issue: #10529 ShadowBot: rubenwardy: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB. 03B​enrob0329: MT uses Semver-ish, but release minor patches more often and a big release once a year maybe? 10J​ordach: especially ones written before formspecs sfan5: because if it was about the "can I rely on this feature being available?" from a mod/game dev perspective you can tell people to enable strict protocol checking 10J​ordach: the problem with that it's not well /known/ about rubenwardy: We have people saying we should break compat all the time, and people who complain whenever we break undocumented compat when necessary sfan5: ok wait sfan5: is this about network compatibility? mod compatibility? both? 10J​ordach: if it's not documented break it sfan5: we do that sfan5: and then people complain 10J​ordach: and? their fault for ignoring "legal" API usage 13G​enshin: ^ 10J​ordach: in that it's going to work between minor versions 10J​ordach: it's like using LEGO wrong 13G​enshin: Thing is, it's impossible to please everybody, we can only do so much 03B​enrob0329: Mod and network compatibility should be maintained between minor versions, but releasing major (breaking) changes more often might not be a bad thing. 10J​ordach: ^ 03B​enrob0329: IMO 13G​enshin: just add what makes sense, and reject what doesn't make sense 03B​enrob0329: If only it were ever that simple... Krock: I thought that's the main idea of using semver now 10J​ordach: i mean you can sort the dross by main usage 13G​enshin: > If only it were ever that simple... This is our current burden 10J​ordach: if it's /really really/ specific for /one/ use case you can probably drop it 10J​ordach: but if it has wider usage because it's so generic but useful, it's probably important sfan5: when I think of compatibility I consider "if someone install Minetest on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, should they be able to connect to up-to-date servers?" sfan5: and I think for most people that answer should be yes, even if that means not all features work 10J​ordach: i mean releasing every six months to mirror the non LTS builds wouldn't be too worrysome 10J​ordach: they'd at least be included for the average user 10J​ordach: or even four minor releases 10J​ordach: with the new year bringing in a major version bump 10J​ordach: (at least before the new LTS) specing: sfan5: how about: the current main menu is turned into a launcher, launcher downloads required mt client version from buildbot? 10J​ordach: we already know the answer to that: no 10J​ordach: been discussed too many times 13G​enshin: if only it was simple specing: sfan5: backwards compatibility is a non-issue e.g. in SpringRTS, where the lobby client downloads the required engine and other content specing: sfan5: and takes a large burden off of engine development sfan5: depends sfan5: you'd still want old content to work in new versions sfan5: but beside that, sure a launcher would work 13G​enshin: new features are being implemented, why concerned about backwards compat when you're innsisting players to switch to the latest builds? 10J​ordach: already insisting players update * Krock: then add a launcher to update the launcher 03B​enrob0329: If mods aren't maintained, they shouldn't hold house cleaning back (for major releases) 10J​ordach: ^ 10J​ordach: mods are abandoned on the forums aplenty 10J​ordach: minetest-mods organisation exists to avoid that anyway 10J​ordach: why should it be a problem if a shitty outdated abandoned mod stops everything 13G​enshin: meanwhile features are being implemented or change, it's up to themodder to update their mods sfan5: you all agree on that but I wonder if everyone else does 03B​enrob0329: Community poll? 13G​enshin: ^ tango_: wow, quitting minetest for android is nontrivial 10J​ordach: and spaghetti mods like technic are the reason for this whole shitstorm tango_: it goes fullscreen, so the android bar is nearly impossible to access sfan5: what lol? sfan5: I've never heard of a compat issue with technic 13G​enshin: same sfan5: @B​enrob0329 likely to inaccurate sfan5: too* 10J​ordach: iirc it used to be a piece of shit in the past like 7 years ago 13G​enshin: it's bloated code, but compat. nah 10J​ordach: i haven't touched it in 7 years sfan5: tango_: I believe you can touch/swipe the edge of the screen to reveal the bar tango_: sfan5: in theory, yes rubenwardy: Most of the people in this conversation are modders, and so it makes sense to have this view. Users and server owners tend to have the opposite view rubenwardy: there's a compromise 13G​enshin: mobile has control input issues when placing nodes SwissalpS: +1 rubenwardy 10J​ordach: unfortunately the line between modder and server owner is too blurry to identify 10J​ordach: when does a well made mod transcend it's mod status and become a game tango_: sfan5: in practice it's QUITE hard to achieve 13G​enshin: a server owner can be a modder aswell if they have the knowledge tango_: having an in-game “menu button” to bring the user to the menu that appears when the back button is pressed would be nice 10J​ordach: the easiest way of quitting Minetest on android is to force itself to crash 10J​ordach: unironically 13G​enshin: i think mobile shouldn't be abandoned. its always nice to increase player base 13G​enshin: server owners will agree to this 03B​enrob0329: @/g/ Quit the program, not the development zughy[m]: It depends on the server: I dare anyone to play in mine and actually win a game against someone playing via PC specing: someone just nuke technic specing: it's hideous specing: just look at those textures and formspecs zughy[m]: improve them (?) 10J​ordach: if VE maintains it it's going to look hideous 10J​ordach: :^) specing: zughy[m]: I use terumet+tubelib, the former has very nice formspecs specing: both have good textures as well specing: tubelib = techpack Krock: technic really needs help. Currently there's no one really involved into it Krock: PRs are reviewed and merged, though. 03B​enrob0329: A lot of server owners maintain spaghetti setups of MTG + Mods from anything I can remember, I don't think that should be a condoned practice. sfan5: zughy[m]: people seem to like "just throw away, it's bad" opinions very much big_caballito[m]: lol 03B​enrob0329: "Who toucha my spagget" is not a valid reason to hold back development IMO 13G​enshin: it shouldn't be tbh zughy[m]: you weren't having a go at me, were you? :c sfan5 sfan5: no MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Update jsoncpp to 1.9.4 (#10477) 13f53396b https://git.io/JTuid (152020-10-21T19:42:23Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix Media... 0% on loading screen (#9478) 135c0a57f https://git.io/JTuPU (152020-10-21T19:42:40Z) ClassWar42016: Hello, I've got a question regarding minetest-server on Ubuntu 03B​enrob0329: Don't ask to ask, just ask Krock: he didn't ask yet ClassWar42016: I'm trying to set up a server that runs the MineClone game, I've downloaded the .zip from the mod database, which directory does it need to go to? 03B​enrob0329: Usually $HOME/.minetest/games/ 03B​enrob0329: If you're using a portable build (RUN_IN_PLACE) then just games/ in your MT folder. ClassWar42016: It's not portable, so it's /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/games ? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add documentation to builtin core.run_callbacks (#10494) 139d370b7 https://git.io/JTuXA (152020-10-21T20:05:32Z) 03B​enrob0329: Are you using a service which uses that as the home directory for the server? 03B​enrob0329: Ie a systemd/openRC/runit service sfan5: note that you need to extract the zip big_caballito[m]: how do I search for my server on servers.minetest.net big_caballito[m]: just ctrl f? ClassWar42016: I've installed minetest-server with the package manager sfan5: big_caballito[m]: yea big_caballito[m]: cool big_caballito[m]: If my server is up, allowed in my firewall, its UDP port is forwarded, minetest.conf server_announce = true, and LAN connections work, but it isn't on servers.minetest.net, is it just 'cause of my relatively poor internet connection? ClassWar42016: it might take some time for it to show up on the list sfan5: !up MinetestBot: sfan5: give me an address and (optionally) a port sfan5: ^ try checking using that big_caballito[m]: !up 184.53.33.85:30000 MinetestBot: 184.53.33.85:30000 seems to be down big_caballito[m]: hmmm.. big_caballito[m]: wait.. big_caballito[m]: !up 184.53.33.84:30000 ClassWar42016: What operating system are you using to host it? MinetestBot: 184.53.33.84:30000 seems to be down big_caballito[m]: Manjaro ARM sfan5: how did you determine which of those IPs is yours big_caballito[m]: (Yes that is a very poor choice for a server, IK) big_caballito[m]: curl -4 icanhazip.com big_caballito[m]: I mistyped the first one rubenwardy: is UFW/iptables configured? big_caballito[m]: yes, my UFW is configured big_caballito[m]: I can connect via lan sfan5: uhh, what about portforwarding? rubenwardy: that too, I jumped a bit big_caballito[m]: My router is port forwarded for UDP 30000 * big_caballito[m]: uploaded an image: Screen Shot 2020-10-21 at 3.37.57 PM.png (24KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xFrpKctsjrpKVqBWAeaRcljH/Screen Shot 2020-10-21 at 3.37.57 PM.png > rubenwardy: > I can connect via lan rubenwardy: on a different computer? big_caballito[m]: yes perrier: Doy you need TCP? sfan5: udp suffices for MT big_caballito[m]: I had TCP one, but I couldn't connect to it, Then I found it was using UDP big_caballito[m]: * I had TCP one, but I couldn't connect to it, Then I found i was supposed to use UDP big_caballito[m]: So is it just my relatively poor internet connection? ClassWar42016: It might be your ISP blocking it big_caballito[m]: hmm.. big_caballito[m]: that would be annoying big_caballito[m]: do you know how I could check that? tango_: is there an easy way to transfer stuff between two chests both within the player's range? rubenwardy: as a user? Not especially, you can shift click to transfer a stack into your inv but that's it rubenwardy: there are mods and games that make it so you can pick up entire chests rubenwardy: I think SwissalpS: technic:wrench, I think tango_: in my case it would be sufficient to just have both chest inventories open SwissalpS: allows to move chests tango_: instead of chest + user perrier: big_caballito[m]: Maybe try a different port and see if the bot connects? perrier: big_caballito[m]: I use 30003 big_caballito[m]: alright one sec big_caballito[m]: !up 184.53.33.84:42069 MinetestBot: 184.53.33.84:42069 seems to be down big_caballito[m]: arrggh perrier: bummer big_caballito[m]: I guess i'll try again on a day when my internet is better big_caballito[m]: At least LAN works big_caballito[m]: I can ahve a LAN party! big_caballito[m]: * I can have a LAN party! perrier: !up 69.247.56.186:30003 MinetestBot: 69.247.56.186:30003 is up (130ms) perrier: I forward TCP/UDP it might be worth a try. big_caballito[m]: !up 184.53.58.84:42069 MinetestBot: 184.53.58.84:42069 seems to be down big_caballito[m]: If it means anything, the thing stops on Announcing server to... big_caballito[m]: it never says announcement successful or anything like that perrier: I'm not using the dedicated server. perrier: What about root privledges? big_caballito[m]: I have root privs, but i'm not gonna execute sudo minetest big_caballito[m]: that just seems stupid to me big_caballito[m]: Hey I just got something from servers.minetest.net big_caballito[m]: It says that the timeout was reached -_- perrier: You could run it as root as a test to see if privs are the problem. rubenwardy: if you can access it on the same LAN, then it's probably a port forwarding issue rubenwardy: and it won't be a privs issue rubenwardy: maybe check that the internal IP is correct? big_caballito[m]: Yeah I figured perrier: Might have to rebootthe router. rubenwardy: well, you have by connecting it rschulman: My copy of minetest all of a sudden has started disabling mods that I've set to enabled when I launch the game. rubenwardy: there's a dependency issue - have you got the same mod installed multiple times? rubenwardy: for example, in mod packs big_caballito[m]: I'll try again when It's not so rainy rschulman: Am I missing something here? big_caballito[m]: I have sat internet, and rain affects it a lot rubenwardy: sounds about right rschulman: rubenwardy: Hmm, perhaps. rschulman: Any way to see which mod is the problem in the log? rubenwardy: it should log the names in the log rubenwardy: something about a conflict rschulman: I'm seeing conflicts in the log for mods that are turned off in the configure screen... specing: https://irc.minetest.net needs a cert fix sfan5: s/ fix// fluxflux: sooo.... what exactly is the ontological status of mapblocks outside the [-30912,30927] boundaries? i thought they were just forced to be unloaded areas, but that doesn't seem to be the case, e.g. https://github.com/minetest-mods/mesecons/issues/544 fluxflux: other mods like tnt and worldedit can also add real nodes to areas outside the map proper (though the client still treats the whole areas as unloaded always) specing: fluxflux: hmm, I wonder if the server even sends the chunks outside those boundaries specing: i.e. could a modified client see outside the box? fluxflux: i haven't dug into things that deeply. i'm curious too. fluxflux: map generation is supposedly extends to the first mapnode boundary after -31000, but there's clearly at least one of those before -30912, so i have no idea where those boundary values are coming from. fluxflux: they aren't hard-coded fluxflux: not mapnode, mapchunk fluxflux: and i have so far failed to figure out exactly where mapchunks begin and end specing: coordinate modulo 16 specing: begin == 0, end == 15? specing: fluxflux: easiest way: place tubelib forceload and punch it fluxflux: specing: that's for mapblocks, not mapchunks fluxflux: https://dev.minetest.net/Engine/Basic_data_structures specing: I thought a chunk was 16*16*16? specing: pfft 04o​neplustwo: mapchunks are configurable i think fluxflux: oh i think i found it "minp.y is 48 + n * 80"... fluxflux: mapchunks *are* configurable specing: actually I have no idea how to make it render past the boundary 04o​neplustwo: i thought there were lua functions to load a mapblock at a certain place fluxflux: so, the default world boundaries are actually at mapchunk boundaries, but there could be one more in the negative direction :\ specing: fluxflux: there seem to be 2 more in negative direction specing: (30912 / 16.0 -2) / 5 = 386 fluxflux: no, just one, between -30992 and -30913 * specing: asks self a hypothetical question specing: "What would happen if player's main inventory's size were set to something other than 32"? 04o​neplustwo: it would be anarchy specing: I wonder if any mod implicitly depends on it being 32 specing: I also wonder where it is set, grepping mt source yields no results 04o​neplustwo: > "What would happen if player's main inventory's size were set to something other than 32"? @specing@IRC#0000 "What if we used 100% of the brain?" specing: aha src/constants.h:#define PLAYER_INVENTORY_SIZE (8 * 4) 04o​neplustwo: 8 * 4 equal 32 innit? 04o​neplustwo: that's right, i still remember my times tables 😎 04L​one_Wolf: That just sets the default 04L​one_Wolf: Nodecore has 8 slot inventories 12W​arr1024: NodeCore has an easier time doing that because it doesn't have to worry about formspecs. There are probably a lot of mods out there that have player inventories in their forms and assume a particular player inventory size. 12W​arr1024: What happens if you shrink the player's inventory to, say, 24, but then a mod formspec tries to show an 8x4 inventory for the player? Are there just dead slots that don't work right? Or maybe they're truncated? But it won't shrink the overall form to collapse that space... luk3yx: There is just a blank space where the non-existent slots are rubenwardy: The inventory size isn't hard coded, specing. You can use set_size to change it rubenwardy: Oh right, misread specing: W​arr1024 I set it to 6 specing: MTG i key formspec shows 6 slots aligned top left specing: 2 greyed out slots in top right specing: and enough empty space below for 24 slots deltasquared: something I wanted to query, it came up during discussion with a developer extending the CSM api to include the ability to read nearby node metadata (whether or not that'd be merged upstream is besides the point). how private are detached inventories at the moment from a network protocol perspective, and if the answer is none or close to none does there exist a mechanism to say "only send this deltasquared: inventory to this client and nobody else"? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5119-L5121 deltasquared: so second (or third) question, why *is* it "send to all players" the default. I never did get the design rationale for that one. for other exploits the reasoning has been player experience under lag sure, but this I never understood. deltasquared: (also thanks for the pointer. my search in the doc file was for the word "private" so I must have mentally skipped over it.) sfan5: how would the server know which and when inventories are needed by the client for display? deltasquared: sfan5: formspec parsing, probably. deltasquared: inb4 not done on the server atm sfan5: sounds error-prone sfan5: also doesn't work if the formspec is from node metadata sfan5: and won't work once CSM is a thing deltasquared: well, then surely a rethink needs to happen. a lock-in to a design with security flaws does not seem adviseable. sfan5: there is no reason you can't ask the mod to specify which players should be able to access an inventory sfan5: s/ask/require/ deltasquared: no reason? how about the fact an opt-in is always going to be missed in some cases? sfan5: backwards compatbility doesn't allow that to be changed deltasquared: oh, don't give me that. there have been deprecations in releases before now. deltasquared: at some point those become hard errors, simple. deltasquared: you can't let the entire codebase be dragged down by some mediocre-written mods out there. sfan5: sure, but my opinion on that is that there needs to be very good reason to do that sfan5: and I don't consider breaking old mods that use detached invs to satisfy confidentiality of detached inventories (which most people don't need) a good tradeoff sfan5: but once this is implemented nothing prevents you from configuring *your* server in a way that insecure mods hard-error tango_: hello, what are forceloaded mapblocks? deltasquared: sure there is good reason. a dumb design decision was made early on and now it's being rectified. there are a *lot* of dumb decisions that let clients (and don't give me the "honest client" argument either) see way more and do way more than they should ought to be. furthermore, have you ever considered that players and server administrators expect that sort of thing to be private by default? tango_: (for the config entry max_forceloaded_blocks) sfan5: tango_: mods can add a mapblock to the forceload list to keep the loaded in memory even if there are no players nearby tango_: sfan5: OK thanks specing: all the mods on blocky either have player name as third parameter to create_detached_inv or are inventories for thrashing things deltasquared: I also consider the configuration argument to be somewhat rubbish. you should be pushing towards good practice, not letting irrelevant legacies suprise users, admins and developers alike with counter-intuitive behaviours. deltasquared: the attitude is what I'm getting at here. have you ever considered that leaning over backwards for backwards compat even when the original rationale was flawed makes the engine and it's developers look like a joke, that the underlying reasons that hack clients are possible will never get fixed, because you're afraid or otherwise unwilling to sit down and really think about the design and allow some deltasquared: breakage to occur, even if minimised? deltasquared: ok, maybe the developers being a joke was uncalled for. still, it makes me mad all the time when I want to develop mods for this game. sfan5: We seem to disagree on what "minimised breakage" means exactly sfan5: I hope it's obvious that I don't suggest never fixing these, but I am suggesting a slower approach than you consider acceptable sfan5: also this is just my opinion, if you open an issue about this you can get another opinion from different devs specing: I've been reading https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6662 specing: and it seems the topic is "let's add some more easily bypassed restrictions to the client" deltasquared: sfan5: I suspect the act of even gathering all my architectural gripes with the engine would cause me to break something IRL. there really is that much. certainly not right now, as a professional software developer some of it peturbs me so much I question my ongoing faith in the engine as something I can develop for as a hobby. specing: I think that the worst thing so far is that I can read books in non-owned locked chests deltasquared: admittedly right now my judgement feels emotionally compromised. though it is a common theme this *always* happens with some aspect or another of the minetest API and the design decisions that underlie it. it all feels _wrong_, and I wonder how the heck it got like that. specing: probably followed by placing nodes mid-air deltasquared: specing: with respect, this extends to more than stuff witnessed on that one server. specing: okay sfan5: deltasquared: I meant that particular issue with detached inventories, if I wanted to solve all design issues with the engine/api myself I'd give up too sfan5: also "how it got like that" is (usually) easy, it was never considered that confidentiality of inventories would matter sfan5: ..or how anticheat should validate the position of where a node is placed deltasquared: re: detached invs. it's data potentially sent over the network, for which usually only a single player should know the contents at a given time. how could that _not_ have been considered. deltasquared: I honestly find that incredulous at best. deltasquared: again, if that's really true, it shakes my faith in the engine and it's developers. this is like network programming 101, man. you don't even have to assume a fully malicious one to realise this is a bad idea; a client that merely breaks only some "rules" is the more insiduous one as it's harder to detect. sfan5: uh deltasquared: and don't circle back on the player name argument either. I already made my point why I thought _that_ was flawed. sfan5: I don't think relaxed security requirements should be a surprise in game development sfan5: but your point is not wrong deltasquared: sfan5: sigh. ok, so admittedly I only have a sample size of one here (yourself), but it is evident that there is at least some differing opinion on design priorities. laying aside comment on who's position is "better", it nonetheless brings up an idea I've had for a while. deltasquared: I think there does need to be an alternate server-side implementation of the minetest protocol. one where different approaches can be explored without breaking the world of mods. deltasquared: I don't just mean a fork, either. complete ground-up. now, I'm not suggesting anyone here should be expected to have to do that. sfan5: a fork would allow you to fix whatever you want paying no mind to mods, but if you want a rewrite I have no idea who would want to write that deltasquared: I've been toying with the idea on and off myself actually. now, it is certainly a large undertaking, but it's not a complete empty slate either. deltasquared: so of course having blown off steam above now, possibly at everyone's mild detriment here, and having said that, I suspect I may be expecting to put my money where my mouth is now huh. deltasquared: s/expecting/expected/ deltasquared: even if that means I lolfail in the process. deltasquared: sfan5: the reason I'd *want* a re-write as well is because well... I have unrelated *cough*opinions about other parts of engine's design that are orthogonal to the exposed API behaviour. deltasquared: so it'd be a place to explore those ideas, too, even if just for myself. sfan5: which parts would that be? deltasquared: too many globals, for starters. :P deltasquared: I'd probably find more the more I delved in. I'm known to be rather pedantic. for someone else, the project might be a fork. for me, it'd have to be a re-write. that's just my own grave. deltasquared: in any case, I need to wrap my head around the network protocol first. I imagine that'll take some time. deltasquared: sfan5: ok so just wanted to apologise as some of my comments earlier were borderline abrasive and upon retrospect that particular "have you ever considered..." earlier was unfair to be aimed at you in particular. I've always been afraid that trying to fix the individual problems piecemeal would be blocked, especially if they all inter-relate (and trying to push a massive set of changes through at deltasquared: once seldom ends well either). so the frustration has been bottled up for a while. sfan5: MT development is not something that runs well, frustration is understandable sfan5: and conversely to what you said fixing problems one-by-one is probably about the only way you'd have success and they can get fixed deltasquared: sfan5: re: frustration, huh... and that comes from the point of view of one of the "bigger" developers? not trying to imply anything but I'm actually genuinely curious now. bearing in mind *I* haven't actually made any PRs for the engine before, so I wonder what makes you in particular say that. sfan5: have you read the forum topics about issue/PR management? deltasquared: I have not. first time I was aware such thing(s) existed. sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24629 sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25417 deltasquared: bearing in mind I normally just go in assuming the usual "don't be a jerk" applies and that has worked mostly fine historically... but as for MT itself, *shrug* sfan5: the gist is that coping with all new issues and (esp.) PRs is a problem and most of that is due to lack of time and/or bad prioritization sfan5: but you should definitely read the topics themselves deltasquared: am reading deltasquared: > Ridiculous coding style rules deltasquared: oof. yeah, I could potentially expend a lot of energy fighting that. deltasquared: (as the PR author I mean) deltasquared: if it seems pointless and/or arbitary I won't go down without a fight. deltasquared: > EXTREMELY time-efficient, deltasquared: heh, spotted a typo ;). inb4 someone else did deltasquared: (on about wuzzy's point about ping-pong latency.) specing: yay deltasquared, lets write a massively multithreaded mt server with server-side physics in Ada :P deltasquared: oh, of _course_ you'd plug ada. :P specing: :) specing: Ada is the go-to language where safety and security is a design requirement deltasquared: I suspect it's not all that accessible to would-be contributors though. ;) specing: Ada is not hard to learn specing: plus the compiler doesen't let you do much stupid deltasquared: I don't think C++ as the language was ever a part of the problem with minetest anyway, and it's the language I have the most experience in that has a hope to be always fast. specing: it may not be part of the problem, but it certainly isnt part of the solution deltasquared: specing: given what I'm about to say I think this may be about to get offtopic for here in particular. back to blocky? skyliner_369: trying to figure out how tool durability attrubutes. specifically, cracky, crumbly, and snappy 12W​arr1024: Tool capabilities are complex af. They're also very different between games. 12W​arr1024: For example, for nodecore, each group has a value and that value controls both the level of material it can dig, and the speed. In minetest_game, each group has a speed value of predetermined speed classes, plus a "level" attribute that controls what tools can mine it, and the tools determine speed for each speed class. 07s​kyliner_369: I'm guessing times are for how long each tool takes to break each level, but how is uses calculated? 12W​arr1024: Each tool has wear from 0 to 65535. If wear exceeds 65535, it breaks. "uses" I believe is how many steps that 65535 is broken up into, so e.g. if uses is 100 it adds 655 wear on each use. 12W​arr1024: I believe you can have wear vary per-group, so e.g. you can have a tool that wears twice as fast if you use it on stone as on dirt 07s​kyliner_369: that I understand. it's why cracky, crumbly, and snappy are separate 12W​arr1024: Ha, I figured this stuff out just barely enough to make an abstraction around it like 2 years ago, and haven't dug into it since. lua_api.txt described in broad strokes how MTG does it, and I noped that really quick for NodeCore. 07s​kyliner_369: so durability is 2^16/uses? 12W​arr1024: In nodecore, you just register a tool with tool_capabilities = nodecore.toolcaps({ cracky = 2, crumbly = 3 }) and most of the stuff like durability and speed calcs are automatic. 12W​arr1024: durability has a precision of up to 2^16, but you can decide how many of those is used up with each use. 12W​arr1024: Each time you dig, the tool will add (2^16 / uses) wear. 12W​arr1024: Non-digging actions may require you to manually adjust wear, so you may have to do that calculation yourself sometimes, and you'll want it to be reasonably consistent. 07s​kyliner_369: hmmmm... maybe? 07s​kyliner_369: no that'd make it so that uses is durability... Daisae: Some mods depend on 'datastorage', but I don't find such a mod. Where is it? 12W​arr1024: https://content.minetest.net/packages/?q=datastorage - seems to be inside the TechAge modpack. I don't know if there's a standalone version. specing: Hmm, why does modstorage not have a savetable? specing: set_table() specing: and by modstorage I mean MetaDataRef specing: possible userdata? 12W​arr1024: you mean :to_table() and :from_table()? Daisae: I see that datastorage is provided by some other mods, just is not available stand-alone. Daisae: Hope I can find it stand-alone. perrier: Does anybody play minetest extended? It has some nice features but the thirst function hasn't moved 1 increment maybe it's just slow? rubenwardy: So - regarding detached inventories. There should be a warning if the scope isn't specified for the inventory, and then the warning upgraded to an error in a release or so perrier: Oh that's mana sorry. rubenwardy: it's perfectly possible to improve the API without breaking things MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix show_on_minimap default value for local player 13c7aa92a https://git.io/JTR5x (152020-10-20T14:36:05Z) specing: Hmm, when you issues a CSM command with not arguments, the first argument gets set to an empty string specing: Hmm, when you issue* a CSM command with no* arguments, the first argument gets set to an empty string specing: perrier: I don't recall seeing thirst on any server perrier: specing: I use it in my game. But the blue hud bar in MTE was mana not thirst. skyliner_369: I've been staring at tools.lua for a while now, trying to figure out how 10 = 30 and 20 = 60 but then 20 also = 180 and then 20=540 and then 30 = 810... specing: rubenwardy: hmm, get_wield_index returns 0-indexed number... big_caballito[m]: Hey, how well do CSM's work right now? What's the status of Server-Sent CSMs? specing: big_caballito[m]: very well if you add some missing API specing: big_caballito[m]: haven't heard of any server sent CSM being used big_caballito[m]: yeah, the second question was mainly for @core_devs big_caballito[m]: What missing API? perrier: I love thirsty it wouldn't be survival without it. big_caballito[m]: One second, lemme go look at some docs... specing: big_caballito[m]: I'm mainly interested in client-side CSMs, and you need to API to be able to interact with the world specing: to add some API* big_caballito[m]: Cool, cool big_caballito[m]: that means modding the code, right? big_caballito[m]: the C++ code* specing: Yes specing: I have currently a 300 line patch that enables me to auto-eat, do inventory management, crafting, digging and placing of nodes specing: from CSMs big_caballito[m]: interesting... big_caballito[m]: Actually that's really cool specing: rubenwardy: the server misses some trivial checks: 1) placing nodes mid-air (under should be not a fluid) 2) set_wield_index should be < hotbar size sfan5: wield index was fixed specing: sfan5: server or client side? sfan5: how would a server validation bug be fixed client-side? sfan5: we're not that stupid specing: is that so? *looks at CSM and fly/noclip/fast restrictions* 04L​one_Wolf: I dare you to fix the latter serverside without any noticeable performance decrease 😛 04o​neplustwo: can't you do checks in a time interval of like 1 sec? sure, you may miss the 0.4 seconds the dude was flying, but eventually you will get him. specing: Lone_Wolf I understand that it's not easy to fix, but the point still stands 04L​one_Wolf: What happens when a player is falling? What if they're walking on top of a mapblock? 04o​neplustwo: are you talking to me? sfan5: maybe you want minetest to essentially be a vnc client so that cheating is impossible but this does not match the vision of the development team 04L​one_Wolf: Yes btw 3 04o​neplustwo: oh 04o​neplustwo: what i was saying is, every 1 second, you pick two frames or something to judge if the player is acting sus 04o​neplustwo: like if frame 1 player is on y=10, and frame 2 player is on y=13, it could be flagged (ofc after counting in other factors like ladders, jumping) sfan5: @o​neplustwo what you want to do is fully recreate player physics server-side, everything else is too inexact and either too permissive or too restrictive (false-positives) 04o​neplustwo: no not really 04o​neplustwo: its like a velocity check every one second 04o​neplustwo: it checks if the velocity is realistic or not 12W​arr1024: If you want a lot of server-side anti-cheat checks, people are developing mods for this. 04o​neplustwo: i mean, once every second shouldn't be too bad for performance, but you can always lower it. Players who cheat tend to do it again. specing: s/people are developing mods/people are reimplementing minetest in lua/ specing: FTFY 04L​one_Wolf: There are already velocity checks in place for everything by -y velocity 04L​one_Wolf: *everything but specing: also, is fly/fast even cheating? Minetest is a sandbox game, not a competitive one Daisae: By the rules I play with, fly is cheating and I reduced the speed of fast. tango_: wow what a boring world tango_: I have some ruins far from my home, having to spend half of an in-game day to get there is extremely boring 04o​neplustwo: fast is a problem if you can use it in short bursts Daisae: It makes it more interesting because then there is incentive to build high speed rail. tango_: I've just now been looking on how to support fast walk on my home server to fix that Daisae: or travel by boat 04o​neplustwo: for example in ctf, you can use fast for a fraction of a second to get away from a tough situation Daisae: I increased the speed of carts much. 04o​neplustwo: oh, has entity speed been patched yet? tango_: boat is slow tango_: and the ruins are inland 04o​neplustwo: i thought Fleckenstein came up with a patch already tango_: rails requires you to have found some mese, which means digging deep underground tango_: which means you spend half the day walking up/down your mine shaft specing: or using gravel sieves tango_: specing: what? specing: techpack gravelsieves, it's not in MTG tango_: I'm currently running “pure” MTG specing: cobblegen -> quarry -> grinder -> gravelsieve specing: pure boredom :P Daisae: Going down, I made a change so that wool breaks falls. I can fall 1000 nodes onto wool and take no damaeg. 04o​neplustwo: did the subject just change? tango_: Daisae: so you changed all of your game rules BUT consider fast / fly mode “cheating” Daisae: Going up to return home, I have home teleportation enabled. tango_: and you see nothing wrong with that? 8-D Daisae: I considered disabling home teleport, but have it for now. Sometimes I played without it. specing: Daisae: xdecor iirc has cushions for that tango_: doesn't straw protect from the fall in MTG? Daisae: I used cushions initially, but they don't look as good . Daisae: I think it may somewhat, but not 100% tango_: wiki says 30% Daisae: I have fast slightly slower than boat travel. tango_: boat travel by default is very slow Daisae: There are also horses in the game. With diamond horseshoes, they go fast enough to make a difference. tango_: now horses would be a nice addition tango_: but yeah I should probably start looking into building some rails Daisae: Default cart speed, I found too slow. Daisae: I decreased the cost of rails also. Daisae: So, I can travel by falling into a shaft, run fast up ladders, use a hang glider, ride a horse, fly a hot air baloon. I have rope boxes and scaffolding for more climbing. Daisae: increased speed, decreased expense for carts. Daisae: many ways to travel, but no teleportation except sometimes home. Daisae: You can also play with Mirrors of Returning + Solar Mana. Daisae: Travel and getting better travel becomes part of the game play. Daisae: Default rail cost, I find too expensive. big_caballito[m]: where is minetest.conf on macos (neoascetic's build) big_caballito[m]: I found minetest.conf.example in /Applications/minetest.app/Content/Resources/minetest tango_: I'm thinking that a partial solution to the fly / fast movement thing to have some special boots to craft sfan5: did you check ~/.minetest? tango_: like the mapping kit for the minimap or the binoculars for zoom tango_: also wow android controls are finnicky tango_: (not that I could do better big_caballito[m]: @sfan5 there is no .minetest big_caballito[m]: * @sfan5 there is no ~/.minetest sfan5: then sfan5: check ~/Library/Preferences big_caballito[m]: there is no minetest folder in ~/library/preferences or /library/preferences big_caballito[m]: (i used ls -a) big_caballito[m]: found it -_- big_caballito[m]: ~/Library/Application Support/minetest/minetest.conf big_caballito[m]: I somehow overlooked it the five (thousand) times I looked there Krock: find -type d -name "*minetest*" big_caballito[m]: cd /; find minetest.conf Noclip: tango_: "which means you spend half the day walking up/down your mine shaft" Noclip: You can build an elevator out of boats and water. That way you can travel several thousand nodes up and down in just a few seconds. Noclip: tango_: "now horses would be a nice addition" Noclip: You could install a mod like 'https://content.minetest.net/packages/TenPlus1/mob_horse' for that. Don't expect horses (or any other mobs) to be added to MTG in the future. If you don't want to use mods then you have to play without horses. perrier: I prefer tpads for transport. swift110: cool perrier: Learned how to make obsidian. Noclip: tango_: "I'm thinking that a partial solution to the fly / fast movement thing to have some special boots to craft" Noclip: How about this mod for flying?: 'https://content.minetest.net/packages/joe7575/towercrane/' Furthermore I think the ethereal and 3d_armor mods give you special crystal boots with a jump boost and speed effect. 11J​onathon: you could use gliders perrier: Fast boots would be awsome and maybe a jet pack. Noclip: specing: "also, is fly/fast even cheating? Minetest is a sandbox game, not a competitive one" Noclip: That's not really true: Minetest is just an engine for various types of voxel games. Minetest Game is a sandbox game. Agon (https://content.minetest.net/packages/1248/agon/) for example is definitely not a sandbox game. Noclip: Also there are many servers with fully or partially competitive games like capture the flag, skywars or just Minetest Game with pvp enabled. specing: true tango_: Noclip: hm how does the boat/water elevator shaft work? any details in the wiki or other doc? tango_: Noclip: the crane is an interesting solution, and a realistic one to boot, but I like the boot/jetpack idea more tango_: Noclip: I'm curious about the principle about not having even friendly animals in MTG tango_: I for one hate the fact that wool is made from cotton Noclip: @oneplustwo: "like if frame 1 player is on y=10, and frame 2 player is on y=13, it could be flagged (ofc after counting in other factors like ladders, jumping)" Noclip: So you want to make the server brute force through all possible player movements every second? That would most likely kill any server at every time! 04o​neplustwo: bruh 04o​neplustwo: wdym "all possible player movements"? Noclip: tango_: One of the main goals of MTG is beeing a simple modding base. Noclip: @oneplustwo: How do you want to count factors like ladders, nodes, jumping and more in without calculating all possible player movements? 04o​neplustwo: i thought there were checks to see if you are in a ladder? 04o​neplustwo: if your y positions doesn't change while you are in the air, its obviously not jumping Noclip: I think compared to that server side movement would be resource-saving: The client sends the pressed keys to the server and the server calculates the movement. But in reality even that could come with big performace issues caused by network delays. Noclip: @oneplustwo: Your idea is not completely wrong but it's also far from beeing a perfect solution. The server could only do very rough and inaccurate calculations which brings us back to sfan5's point: "everything else [than server-side physics] is too inexact and either too permissive or too restrictive" 04o​neplustwo: it does not have to be exact 04o​neplustwo: cheaters tend to cheat again 04o​neplustwo: eventually they will be caught Daisae: specing: I'm playing with HDX textures. and I can dye the wool many pretty textures. I'm happier adding a line to make wool act as cushions. specing: Why would the server do very rough calculations? FPS games have done server side physics for decades now specing: I don't understand why it would be a problem for MT to do the same Daisae: Or I could change straw from 30% cushioning to 100%. Noclip: sfan5: How about this idea: We use both client-side and server-side movement / physics. The client keeps calculating and executing movements on it's own but also sends all keystrokes and cursor movements to the server. If the server has enough unused hardware resources at a given moment it then tries to calculate and recreate the players movement and compares it to the original client-side movement. If the differences Noclip: between client-side and server-side movement of a specific player are too often too big then the server will assume that player to be a cheater. sfan5: has been proposed before and it'd work Noclip: specing: Server-side physics and running regular checks is not the same. Noclip: sfan5: So then the problem is already solved in theory? sfan5: sorta Noclip: Nice! Is there a forum or github discussion that you could link to? 11I​hrFussel: Shooters run at 30-60 or more ticks per sec...not even remotely comparable to Minetest's 11 steps per sec (by default) sfan5: Noclip: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6219 Noclip: Thanks! perrier: Witch houses are looking a lot better I noticed there was an update to handle_schematics recently. swift110: oh MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest: Automatically enable zoom capability (#10493) 134d9c918 https://git.io/JT0wy (152020-10-20T21:13:27Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Do not apply waving shader to bush leaves (#2753) 13720d4c8 https://git.io/JT0oc (152020-10-20T21:30:57Z) FeXoR: ...pipo. Thanks ;) But it was less about being able to breath and more about water not to build away ;) dasani: The rope box is awesome. 07a​rydev: why in the server the map is changed frome the one i generated in client and the mods are disabled? 07a​rydev: help 11I​hrFussel: The server ignores client maps and can restrict client mods 07a​rydev: is a way to disable that @IhrFussel ? 11I​hrFussel: Not in the vanilla MT client, you'd need a modified one to circumvent the restrictions...as for the map I don't think there is any way to tell the server to use your map instead...how would that even work? 07a​rydev: > Not in the vanilla MT client, you'd need a modified one to circumvent the restrictions...as for the map I don't think there is any way to tell the server to use your map instead...how would that even work? @IhrFussel no i mean the map 11I​hrFussel: What do you actually want to do? duckie: hi 11J​onathon: Hello specing: is there something like print() but that only prints to stdout and not into chat? Krock: literally print() specing: Krock: print() goes to chat as well Krock: increase your chat log level 07a​rydev: > What do you actually want to do? @IhrFussel get the map with the same seed and all mods on MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Minor clientmap improvements. 13b826e39 https://git.io/JT4HL (152020-10-19T16:31:09Z) 11I​hrFussel: You cannot download server mods, you can replicate the map with local map saving (check settings) tango_: I wonder why mese was called mese. it means month in italian tango_: anyway, my son would like to have a “overhead“ camera (as in: character seen from above) tango_: does anybody know if there is an easy way to do that? 11J​onathon: toggle f7 11J​onathon: or if your running 5.3.0 i believe that was one of the key changes 11J​onathon: i changed mine all back, so idk what the new default is tango_: MTDiscord: hm if I'm not mistaken the only views available from there is fp, from the back and from the front tango_: argh tango_: jonathon^ 11J​onathon: depending on how your rotated, you can see from above 11J​onathon: moment tango_: hm 11J​onathon: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/767797839740010516/unknown.png 11J​onathon: does the relay pass the img link? 11J​onathon: does he want to play watching his character wandering, or record it? tango_: just watching tango_: (and yes, the relay passes the img link, thanks 8-)) tango_: of course that kind of approach limits the targetability of blocks tango_: I suspect he might want to be able to interact with blocks in front tango_: something like classict RTS view 11J​onathon: yeah, there has been csms for freecam, you might be able to write one that allows you to move the player while freecamed tango_: oh this thread seems relevant https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3070 11J​onathon: i personally haven't touched camera views at all tango_: honestly I'm not even sure how that thing would be supposed to work with overhead blocks tango_: but then again he doesn't like to go underground (Even though he knows there's no mobs in MTG) tango_: ancestral fear of the dark 8-) tango_: I wish we could put torches or other light sources on boats tango_: although I can see why this isn't the case tango_: like for the light from torches in hand MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement unloading of static_save=false objects according to existin… 134f23038 https://git.io/JTBed (152020-10-19T18:38:33Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Decouple entity minimap markers from nametags replacing with show_on_… 13660115c https://git.io/JTBeF (152020-10-19T18:38:15Z) zughy[m]: if I have a running timer in a node and then the MapBlock of that node goes off because, idk, it's not in my sight anymore, does that timer keep running? sfan5: I believe that was the point of node timers andrew_znc: tnts blow up unbreakable nodes... andrew_znc: / andrew_znc: hmmmm specing: mod authors be like "yay this works in singleplayer lets ship it" specing: server owners be like "*facepalm*" specing: sfan5: btw, I've added dig/place/inventory operations to the API and now I have auto-eat and auto-compress of cobble. This actually opens up a lot of possibilities for player experience enhancements, like the autocrafters, placed stack prefetchers (from other slots) specing: limited worldedit for now (dig this box, place this wall) specing: ^ movement is still on todo specing: + inventory sort cheapie: specing: Auto-eat of cobble? :P kiwi_79: bum ba pe ra pa ba ra pum su sa ra sa pa ta raaa kiwi_79: barumssssss saraaam alaaan paraaaan um bum bum bum bum bum bum bum buuuuum kiwi_79: dum dum dum duuum everyone wants to dum kiwi_79: dum dum ba ra pa the waalllllllll aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa doo kiwi_79: dog kiwi_79: Pa ra pa ra pa pa pa raaa pa ra pa pa pa raaa kiwi_79: Can i stop please? kiwi_79: Im a kiwi from kiwi irc kiwi_79: good bye tango_: suggestions on how to build a jutting edge or something? standing on the very edge of a precipice to try and hit the sliver of side of a nearby box isn't really my box of fun tango_: (in plain MTG, possibly) tango_: wth sneaking prevents you from falling, why didn't I know that unixbsd: Is there minetest for ios and ipads, with multiplay local/server on ipad? Calinou: unixbsd: not officially, but there are unapproved/rogue third-party clients that bring their own ads to the table for that Calinou: I wouldn't recommend t hem rubenwardy: Apple is not friendly to user-freedom 04o​neplustwo: yeah 04o​neplustwo: pity that my computer is apple lol rubenwardy: MacOS is at least a bit more free than iOS, we're able to provide official builds for MacOS tango_: 33 tango_: sorry Krock: 42 tango_: I don't have _that_ many windows ;-) specing: cheapie for now anything that is in slot7 SwissalpS: does shift-clicking items into inventories only work if inventory list is "main" ? Krock: depends Krock: if listring[] is defined to only work with "main", then yes Krock: but it can be used for multiple inventories specing: Hmm I wonder about that, it never worked with chesttools:shared_chest 12W​arr1024: Anyone here have any expertise with Weblate? I have strings that were added to the source language via translation file upload, and then later deleted with a re-upload, but it's still asking translators to translate them. 12W​arr1024: I know MT uses Weblate for its i18n (which is why I chose it) but it's pretty byzantine... Krock: byzantine -> bizarre Krock: perhaps weblate is outdated or there was a merge conflict or so SwissalpS: I see it not working with many nodes that have only one inventory and am trying to figure out how to add the support for it Krock: register two lists and put listring[] afterwards Krock: or define the locations manually SwissalpS: thanks Krock, I'll give that a shot ghoti: Has anyone created a godzilla-like mob in minetest? I see there are a bunch of them for minecraft, and I wonder .. has demand spilled over to minetest at all? Krock: I haven't seen any gorillas in Minetest yet ghoti: er, that would be king kong. :-) 04o​neplustwo: same thing innit? Krock: is godzilla a dinosaur? 04o​neplustwo: its a t-rex Krock: aha specing: There are performance issues with big entities specing: at least riding animals of the petz mod sometimes causes you to be extraordinarily large for others, and that makes them lag 10J​ordach: ? 10J​ordach: entity size doesn't add more polygons 10J​ordach: https://tenor.com/view/umm-confused-wtf-blinking-okay-gif-7513882 Krock: entities cannot be larger than 3x3x3m AFAIK Krock: and to avoid wrong collision results on laggy servers, perhaps restrict it to 2x2x2m just to be sure ghoti: Godzilla is a movie character based on a dinosaur. A classic Japanese sci fi movie monster who shoots "atomic breath" at his enemies. Krock: correction: the *collisionbox* cannot be larger than that. The selectionbox also has some limitation, but should be quite a bit larger. Also stretching the mesh is possible, though large scales might be laggy ghoti: I see there was a "prehistoric life" mod released a while back, and something called "PaleoTest" currently in the content library. Dinosaurs would be a start. I might fork a T-Rex and make my own Godzilla.... ghoti: But PaleoTest seems to take a bit of work to use... ghoti: Should "PaleoTest" provide inventory animals in creative mode? I'm not seeing anything at all after installing the mod. perrier: I never tried it in creative mode. perrier: I made baby dinosaurs though. SwissalpS: I failed to get liststring[] to work. There must be something that doesn't work in some special case. To test I have removed every element except two lists and liststring SwissalpS: maybe after a nap I'll see what it was blaise: what is the prometheous support for> blaise: s/>/? Krock: statistics Hawk777: SwissalpS: If you’re talking about formspecs, did you misspell it? It’s “listring” not “liststring”. (i.e. a ring of lists, not a list of strings). Krock:
  • string
    • SwissalpS: 100 thanks, I should have copy pasted. I in fact have liststring and was a little confused. thought fibre string was meant to show tab-order :D and I also have api.txt open... SwissalpS: finally working with empty 'listring[]' could not get it to work when adding location, but this is working, so I'm happy :D going to sleep a little better :) SwissalpS: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! unixbsd: on raspberry minecraft is so much popular because it is by default. best move would be that minetest enter raspios to get more popular. minetest is way x1000000 better. Calinou: I belive it's already in the Raspbian repositories, but I may be mistaken Calinou: keep in mind it needs to be configured with OpenGL ES 2.0 support sfan5: providing official raspbian builds would probably help unixbsd: ah yeah... with GL you wont enter raspberry or arm world. unixbsd: We still use SDL or framebuffer. unixbsd: e.g. retropie: no GL installed !!!! 08a​ppguru: We really have to fix this limitations 08a​ppguru: A R*-tree would do specing: Also, I seem to be able to crash servers just by crashing my client specing: (error in CSM brings down my client) 04o​neplustwo: wait csms can crash servers? specing: apparently specing: though in reality I think server doesen't properly handle crashing clients sfan5: and what error does it log? specing: no idea, it's not my server sfan5: how are you sure it crashes then? 04o​neplustwo: did you try logging into the server with another account without using csm right after? specing: sfan5: server's IRC bridge reports me joining, server's IRC bridge reports me leaving (due to CSM crash), server IRC bridge says "Game shutting down" immidiately after specing: this exact same thing happened 4 times now specing: no oneplustwo sfan5: okay that sounds like a reliable indicator 04o​neplustwo: ive heard this from other people but i thought it was fake news lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Contributing doc: Minor improvements and a clarification (#10520) 13db9eee2 https://git.io/JT8eg (152020-10-18T21:50:31Z) Extex: How do I turn down the volume of a sound? Extex: Using minetst.play_sound 12W​arr1024: pass a "gain" parameter Daisae: I haven't been able to access the minimap for a long time, even though it is enabled in settings and I give myself the map item. Someone know why or have ideas? Emerald2: Do you press a key to enable it and get an error message? I think it's F9? sfan5: the key is V since 5.3.0 sfan5: or was it C? Emerald2: Oh yeah some got changed. Bah. :) tango_: I think V is for the minimap and C to change the perspective tango_: back to the iron ore location thing, for some reason in one of the games I'm playing, I have been able to find some ore near 0 depth tango_: I wonder how that is possible? Daisae: V works. I didn't see anything about the key change. Daisae: I can view the minimap now. tango_: on unrelated news, my son finds it a bit distressing that some blocks don't 'connect' properly (e.g. torches from an “upper slab” ceiling or posts next to a staircase) 09s​rinivas: well, that connecting is more logic, more loc that need to run to do work... tango_: I am aware tango_: still, it's a one-shot calculation, like the one used to determine the shape things such as walls and fences look like 09s​rinivas: well, that wouuld hold if it is going to be static and unmodified... but when things can be changed around, it gets more complicated tango_: but that's true for all connecting blocks tango_: (and this involves all connecting blocks too, e.g. doors next to walls) tango_: BTW why is it that you can't make walls out of stone bricks? L-4: ``` L-4: Hey, does anyone know why this node isn't diggable? https://pastebin.com/k99mXF32 L-4: Dunno how to format code in IRC, but it's just a few lines Krock: L-4: you need to set groups, not "diggable" Krock: like groups = { cracky = 2, ...?} L-4: Ah nice, thanks! Daisae: tango_: I have no trouble stacking stone_brick and also not stone_bricks. What do you mean? Daisae: they are moreblocks:grey_bricks (Stone Bricks) and default:stonebrick (Stone Brick) andrew_znc: Minetestn is creating 10 zombie processes tango_: Daisae: I mean as an alternative of this https://wiki.minetest.net/Wall L-4: Hey, does anyone know of an alternative to Sorcerykid's bitwise library, that has rshift/lshift which take numbers instead of bit arrays? SwissalpS: doesn't Lua have bitwise operators built in now? L-4: << Is a syntax error, _G.bit is nil L-4: I think that these things are from Lua 5.3 L-4: require "bit" doesn't work either of course SwissalpS: yes, it would only be part of fairly recent Lua versions L-4: Do does anyone know if there's some native way to do this? 08a​ppguru: One could try abusing numbers 04o​neplustwo: cant you just multiply it by a power of 2 or something? Krock: luajit has these too IIRC specing: Has the mid-air placement thing been fixed? specing: Because I can place nodes in mid air after adding a placement function to CSM api sfan5: "mid-air placement"? 04o​neplustwo: placing without pointing at a node i assume sfan5: hm sfan5: placing a node in mid air is not considered a cheat currently, but could be 04o​neplustwo: scaffold hacks lol Krock: can definitely be cheated yes Krock: also digging without direct sight 04o​neplustwo: you could make a nuker with csms Krock: needs a good pickaxe and time though 04o​neplustwo: eh with instabreak you could get through a 5x5x5 area in probably a few seconds sfan5: but you cannot instantly break things that are not instantly breakable 04o​neplustwo: true 04o​neplustwo: but a nuker would be more efficient than digging by hand specing: "a nuker"? specing: Krock: I can dig/place without direct sight, yes (also through solid ground) 04o​neplustwo: nukers like in minecraft 04o​neplustwo: minecraft hacked clients specing: I don't think you could do it with CSMs alone, official minetest CSM API lacks required functions specing: also I never played minecraft big_caballito[m]: Hey, this might be a bit intrusive. big_caballito[m]: so sorry, but big_caballito[m]: I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25507 04o​neplustwo: i dont know what that is but i love it cHyper: hi. big_caballito[m]: hi cHyper: I was added to the wiki for minetest. I will add and modify something... cHyper: welcome Krock: I see you did some research there cHyper: i am new to wiki for minetest but as a programmer i can learn and do things very simple.. ;-) after a short time... Krock: big_caballito[m]: the PR review team is identical to the core dev team currently Krock: same for project management big_caballito[m]: @Krock I am aware of that, and I think It needs to change in some way big_caballito[m]: EX the PR review team reviews and then the devs merge it big_caballito[m]: But IDK exactly how it would/should work Krock: it won't work well because it's basically the same thing. once it's reviewed it's one click away from being merged Krock: s/reviewed/approved twice/ big_caballito[m]: Ik that, I just think that we need to get some strain off of the core devs big_caballito[m]: (particularly rubenwardy) cHyper: hi homthack, welcome sorry i am new here... slow but a good guy. homthack: hi homthack: i've been in afk because I said in that, I wonder that it has been there in irc cHyper: well... 04L​one_Wolf: It helps just to review some PRs yourself even if your approval doesn't count. Since if the devs find a problem the review process usually restarts 04L​one_Wolf: If you find all the problems then a PR can be merged after 2 dev reviews instead of 3-8 rubenwardy: oh definitely rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19877 cHyper: hi rubenwardy... rubenwardy: hi cHyper: btw i have soon 1.000 posts on forum.minetest.net next week or so 10c​Hyper: welcome ... tango_: FINALLY found the iron ores tango_: had to dig a well straight down for 130 units tango_: bit boring tango_: but wooden stairs ftw big_caballito[m]: on v7 and pretty much all the others except v6, ores are really deep to compensate for huge caves big_caballito[m]: another exception to this being singlenode MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove all bump mapping and parallax occlusion related code. 13ed22260 https://git.io/JTCuq (152020-10-17T20:09:16Z) 04L​one_Wolf: Sweet specing: tango_: craft yourself a ropebox specing: gives you 450 nodes of rope MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Periodically release all mesh HW buffers to avoid an Irrlicht bottlen… 13738f624 https://git.io/JTCzn (152020-10-17T20:22:30Z) 08a​ppguru: Now that is sweetest. tango_: specing: I don't think that's in MTG? tango_: big_caballito[m]: to be honest I'm not sure which mapgen was used for this world tango_: big_caballito[m]: so far I've been playing in two worlds. in one of them I have found some iron near sea level or barely below specing: tango_: it's in the rope mod specing: ropes(?) specing: tango_: I've never played in SP past creative testing of new mod code rschulman: Has there been any interest expressed in continuing to maintain/develop IcyDiamond's mods like elepower or holostorage? 11J​onathon: last commit was 4 months ago 11J​onathon: and there was a modified mtg game that added it in 11J​onathon: unless im missing something? 11J​onathon: > I have ceased to work on my mods for the foreseeable future. It was nice being part of this community but I'll be going now. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20320&start=175 ah rschulman: Yeah. tango_: how do you guys not get lost in caves? 09s​rinivas: noclip ftw 09s​rinivas: and torches tango_: torches is what I was counting on, but this thing turned into a maze tango_: oh, found the way out, lol tango_: I need some kind of mapping tango_: OK apparently the ocean I'm at is at Y=250 tango_: how is that possible tango_: but worst of it, this might explain why I'm not finding any iron ore tango_: if it's supposed to be at -150, this means I have to dig down 500 relative to the ocean tango_: 400, but whatever tango_: way too much tango_: next world I play I'll have to remember to check the depth of the ocean surface before starting to build my hose next to it 8-/ 12W​arr1024: The torch thing is simple. (1) always place torches along one wall only. If you need additional lighting use only floor/ceiling torches and avoid the opposite wall. (2) if you come to an intersection, explore at least a couple of torches worth down each path so you can always tell which way is the way back out even if one of those paths turns out to be part of a loop. (3) to get out any time, just keep the torches on the MTDiscord: opposite side to the way you place them. tango_: Warr1024: excellent suggestions 04o​neplustwo: use tnt to destroy all of the surrounding nodes of the cave so it is no longer a cave, its just one huge crater. Noclip: @Warr1024: "The torch thing is simple." Except you're playing nodecore. 😂 12W​arr1024: With NodeCore it's harder to get lost in a cave anyway because it's harder to get very far into one. tango_: wth I just realized I was reading the pos in debug mode the wrong way tango_: depth is the second coordinate, not the third tango_: cripes rubenwardy: The second coordinate is height, not depth rubenwardy: Well, depth is ambiguous as a term Ingar: the same idiocy like in mc ? Krock: maths is stupid. Y is up down rubenwardy: Paper is maths is horizontal, screens are vertical rubenwardy: Y as up is very common in games 07j​osiah_wi: If you draw a cartesian graph on a screen you will behold a wonder: Y is up/down somehow. ^^ tango_: rubenwardy: well, negative Y is depth 8-) tango_: still, disagree with the choice to change the depth at which iron can be found tango_: AND I still don't understand how farming works tango_: plants only grouw to level 1, never more tango_: I understand I have to provide them with more light, but my only light source presently is the torch, which if I understand correctly only does 12 light, while 13 is needed for plants to grow, but apparently not even putting torches around the field solves the issue tango_: doesn't light from adjacent torches accumulate? tango_: and/or do plants not grow higher in MTG? sfan5: what kind of plants? tango_: sfan5: so far I tried papyrus, wheat and cotton sfan5: papyrus needs to be next to water tango_: I found 4-tall papyrus, mined it, and planted each of the papyrus next to water sfan5: wheat and cotton need to be on farmland near water tango_: hm tango_: OK for the wheat and cotton I might be too far from the water tango_: but the papyrus most definitely is not Krock: plant it on dirt with grass Krock: check for default:dirt_with_grass in the F5 debug info tango_: Krock: you mean without turning it into soil first? Krock: tango_: papyrus doesn't need soil tango_: wow Krock: though it should also grow on soil.. perhaps that's bug tango_: it grows up to level 1 tango_: hm so arguably it doesn't grow, because 1 is the level it is at when I plant it tango_: let me see if I can put it on some dirt with grass tango_: (although it's not specified in the wiki that this is how it should be) tango_: ooooh wait, it might be because it's savannah dirt tango_: let's see tango_: very strange tango_: the soil is classified as dry_soil_wet tango_: wth is that supoosed to mean? sfan5: uhh sfan5: well it's soil in any case DS-minetest: that's schrödinger's soil Krock: it's dry but wet Krock: depending on your viewing angle DS-minetest: let's add a wet group for nodes that are wet DS-minetest: to cause endless ~~discussions~~ issues about whether water is wet Krock: is ice wet? DS-minetest: hmmm Krock: is steam wet? DS-minetest: is lava wet? rom1504: yes tango_: ok papyrus was succesfully grown tango_: it does not grow on soil tango_: not sure if this is a bug or intentional DS-minetest: it was always like this. papyrus doesn't grow on promix hisforever: Hi dose anyone know hoe to do a cross over on advanced tracks? swift110: hey hisforever: hi hisforever: hoe = how Emerald2: Hey muke. muke_: hi Emerald2: Ahhh an aussie! muke_: i forgot ips were public Emerald2: Unless you ask freenode staff for a cloak. muke_: oh well Emerald2: Hey neighbour from across the ditch. :p muke_: pondhopping isn't my style. Emerald2: Gonna get some food and hope the exile winter passes so we can get off the volcano. :p specing: Hmm, is there a command line switch to make run-in-place minetest build use ~/.minetest as its home? sfan5: no, this choice is compiled in specing: Hmm, or is run-in-place the thing that controls this, and I should make a normal build sfan5: yes sfan5: if you want stuff to live in ~/.minetest do a RUN_IN_PLACE=0 build specing: sfan5: out of tree builds are not properly working, at least the mt binary is deposited into source dir sfan5: don't ask me why but that's intentional specing: rip, also git clean nuked my first baby CSM specing: strangely it did not nuke another one that I had installed specing: Hmm, minetest is no longer loading any CSMs... specing: just as I write this... specing: Hmm, Minetest says that 'io' is nil (in CSM) even though I do luaL_openlibs(m_luastack); unconditionally specing: (commented out clientOpenLibs) * specing: adds io to clientOpenLibs instead specing: monkey strategy.. :/ specing: { LUA_IOLIBNAME, luaopen_io }, is also not working specing: Is there some other sanitation going on? * specing: notices src/script/cpp_api/s_security.cpp specing: Well, renaming lua's io to rio did not work either specing: { "rio", luaopen_io }, tango_: hello all tango_: came back to minetest after a long while away, nice to see the improvements, my kids love it too tango_: couldn't get it to run it on my Android 10 device though, gets stuck on boot loop (got the apk from fdroid) tango_: pity tango_: (I'm not even sure where this bug should be reported: is there a repo specific for the android version?) tango_: hm I believe this patch would be aimed among other things at fixing the issue https://git.minie.re/minetest/minetest/commit/87b25e583dcb2bc1079a7b5906b97a787ac04be8 tango_: oh it was merged tango_: (dunno why google led me to that site instead of GH, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9900 seems to be merged) tango_: I guess i'll have to wait for the fdroid update then rubenwardy: tango_: F-droid won't update for a long time rubenwardy: you could try using the APK itsel rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/5.3.0/app-armeabi-v7a-release.apk specing: rubenwardy: why wont they update? rubenwardy: the build system was changed and now depends on prebuilt binaries rubenwardy: F-Droid forbids prebuilt binaries majochup: tango_, You can also use an older version of minetest on f-droid. majochup: I for example use 5.2.0.26 rubenwardy: doesn't support Android 10+ majochup: Ohh tango_: why does the new build system depend on prebuilt binaries? rubenwardy: in order to get the requried libraries rubenwardy: Minetest used to have complicated and fragile makefiles to build the libraries, this was replaced rubenwardy: the eventual aim is to reintroduce building the dependencies in CI specing: Hello specing: Any clues as to why io.open does not work in CSMs? (specifically, io is nil). I've commented out openClientLibs so that lual_openlibs is called for client mods, and I also tried adding LUA_IOLIBNAME into openClientLibs to no avail specing: I've also tried loading io as "rio" by substituting "rio" for LUA_IOLIBNAME in openClientLibs specing: also did not work specing: I've also commented out all the parts related to the io library from the ...security.cpp * specing: ran out of ideas DS-minetest: specing: io is nil on purpose for security reasons, afaik. I don't know what openClientLibs is. DS-minetest: specing: use modstorage specing: I don't want to use modstorage for this specing: Where is io made nil? rubenwardy: you need to copy all of io in security.cpp rubenwardy: it's not made nil, it's just not copied specing: void ScriptApiBase::clientOpenLibs(lua_State *L) line .. specing: ah rubenwardy, thanks rubenwardy: sandboxing needs to whitelisted, not blacklisted, so it creates the environment from scratch by copying specing: rubenwardy: though io should not be nil after adding it to clientOpenLibs, just certain functions from it specing: from what I read in security rschulman: How do people playing with v7 mapgen (so some ores generate REALLY deep) remember how to get down to where they were digging and back up? rubenwardy: mineshafts with water, mostly specing: rubenwardy: travelnets, elevators 12W​arr1024: ziprunes :-D rschulman: I'm not smart enough for NodeCore, though. :D 12W​arr1024: haha, people sometimes say they're not smart enough for it, but the game will let you take it at your own pace, especially in singleplayer 12W​arr1024: apparently people have also been doing some work on the wiki now rschulman: Oh, I know, I've actually played through a small bit of it. rschulman: I was just joking. tango_: damn, iron ore is hard to find tango_: is there a way to know which mapgen was used, as a user? SwissalpS: the seed, yes specing: tango_: really? specing: tango_: my experience is that it's really commonplace past -500 or so tango_: yeah but you have to dig to that depth first specing: true, but that's usually easy tango_: it's a bit boring specing: yes specing: not just a bit, a lot specing: ore should be in veins, like in real life tango_: especially if all you want is just a little bit of iron to build a frigging screwdriver Corey[m]: Has anyone experienced a bug where right-clicking and then passing the cursor over an entity triggers that entity's right click (as in you clicked on something different, and then moved the crosshair over the entity, doesn't even have to be immediately)? specing: so instead of finding iron 20 nodes apart, you should find it in massive veins, but the veins being rare tango_: that aside, how does farming work? specing: tango_: also no such problem with TechPack autosieves :) tango_: 8-P tango_: meaning, how can i have more than 12 or 13 light for the field? stack lots of torches around it? 04L​one_Wolf: @Corey yes, it's a bug with the bindable LMB/RMB PR they merged. Lemme grab the link 04L​one_Wolf: Or wait 04L​one_Wolf: Are you in 5.4? 04L​one_Wolf: Sounds like proper behavior now that I reread that specing: tango_: I personally use SuperGlowGlass from moreblocks specing: tango_: you can also use ultra plastic from sci-fi nodes SwissalpS: meselight-slabs or super glow glass slabs do the job for me in most setups Corey[m]: Lone_Wolf: I always run the git master SwissalpS: only rarely do I need the full nodes Corey[m]: And I've noticed that the console `/` binding broke as well Corey[m]: At this point, I would suggest reverting the change, unless something else is relying on it, because this is hella broken specing: you can also use trap super glow glass, so you can move through the field specing: or slabs on ceiling specing: rubenwardy: specing | rubenwardy: though io should not be nil after adding it to clientOpenLibs, just certain functions from it specing: I'm sorry if I had missed an answer to this, but ... specing: When IO is loaded to client libs, the safe io functions should be copied to the new environment in src/script/cpp_api/s_security.cpp specing: But my problem is that there is no io (it is nil) specing: ah no wait, there is a initializeSecurityClient that has no mention of io specing: nvm tango_: s there a way to know at what depth one is? DS-minetest: tango_: press F5 tango_: oh nice Corey[m]: How do I set the padding/margin/size-in-pixels of the hotbar, or is that fixed? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Rely on max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client to limit blocks sent … 13f43d1cf https://git.io/JTmcL (152020-10-14T02:39:43Z) specing: Uhm so specing: "Bitstream Vera Fonts Copyright: Copyright (c) 2003 by Bitstream, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Bitstream Vera is specing: a trademark of Bitstream, Inc." specing: How can Minetest use these fonts if they are all rights reserved? specing: What license is the preview mod under? specing: It's missing a license header specing: preview CSM* Calinou: Bitstream fonts are under a free license, even if the copyright says "all rights reserved" Calinou: BSD license templates typically have "all rights reserved" for instance Calinou: but still, BSD 2/3-clause are OSI-approved and FSF-approved Calinou: Corey[m]: I think it's hardcoded… do you mean the padding between individual items? specing: Calinou: I see specing: doc/client_lua_api.txt is missing an explanation on what a "mod channel" is specing: What is _G in dump(_G)? sfan5: the global lua environment specing: thanks specing: sfan5: what is a mod channel? sfan5: lua_api.txt should have docs specing: sfan5: if I interpret that image correctly, "mod channels" are like simulated dedicated sockets? sfan5: sorta specing: attempt to index global 'io' (a nil value) specing: Is io not available to CSMs? How can I manipulate files? sfan5: you can't specing: sfan5: :( specing: sfan5: I'll try to patch it the specing: n 12W​arr1024: "All rights reserved" is meaningless. It dates back to a time before statute made all rights reserved by default. 12W​arr1024: Putting it in a copyright statement IS a bit confusing, though, if you plan on immediately relinquishing a bunch of those rights via a free software license... rubenwardy: You can use mod storage to save data, specing. But for security reasons, file access isn't allowed specing: rubenwardy: I want to log my coordinates to a file rubenwardy: mod storage is saved to a JSON file, which can be read externally Corey[m]: Calinou: I found out later that the hud size is indeed hard coded, so no dice there, though if I can change the padding that should help slightly Calinou: there's a client-side setting for the HUD size Calinou: check the Advanced Settings menu specing: rubenwardy: hmm specing: How does one call commands registered with core.register_chatcommand? Preview mod registers a command "text", but /text is not found rubenwardy: remove the / 12W​arr1024: I've written a couple of mods (szutil_offlinepos and nc_yctiwy at least) that keep track of a player's position continuously and store it in mod_storage. This is sufficient if you only care about the current/most-recent location, and have a manageable number of players. If you have thousands of players, or if you want to track a precise history of everywhere they've been, then I don't think MT offers a really great standard MTDiscord: solution and you have to get a little creative. rubenwardy: /text = register_chatcommand["text" rubenwardy: Warr1024: client-side mod, not server-side 12W​arr1024: Oh, interesting. The Mumble Positional Audio thing might be the closest example for something like that that I know of. It just uses print statements, though, and relies on a wrapper to parse the data stream and extract the position data. rubenwardy: there was a user that made a cheating tool with a remote execution vulnerability by doing something like this rubenwardy: they made a wrapper that watched the log for text like @execute(myshell --command) rubenwardy: the thing is that the CSM API isn't the only thing that logs, so a malicious server could cause lines like that to be printed 12W​arr1024: haha, wait, did they just accidentally introduce a vulnerability? Or was it an intentional backdoor in case the cheat tool was used against the dev's own server? rubenwardy: it was accidental, they weren't as good at programming as they thought they were rubenwardy: their cheating tool consisted of a Lua CSM, a Python wrapper, and a JVM program rubenwardy: the reason they had both a Java program and a Python one was because they thought that Java can't run other programs 12W​arr1024: Oh wow, I can't think of too many MT-community people who openly use the JVM :-D 12W​arr1024: OMG that's awesome ... and they chose Python for the role of shell glue language, of course :-DDD 12W​arr1024: Sounds like a mod that both enables cheats AND also punishes the user for cheating. Way to play both sides. rubenwardy: here it is: https://github.com/KaiGerdMueller/minetest-bot-collection rubenwardy: note how all of the source code is in that .sh file rubenwardy: except for the jar rubenwardy: vulnerability: https://github.com/KaiGerdMueller/minetest-bot-collection/blob/master/install_kgms_cheat_autoclick.sh#L87 rubenwardy: oops, the branch above 12W​arr1024: Haha, IMG that's hilarious, you have to run that with sudo to install it :-DD 12W​arr1024: This doesn't look like the work of someone who's bad at programming, it really looks like the work of somebody who's very good at bad programming rubenwardy: this code was used to eat apples automatically when damaged on CTF rubenwardy: I wrote a mod on CTF to detect the use of this code. It worked by damaging players when in the end-of-match GUI. There was a hidden field in the end-of-match GUI which would detect keypresses. This cheat is fairly dumb, it would press the slot number eat time it ate. So, my detecter would check whether the field contained many identical digits rubenwardy: it would then wait a random number of minutes, and ban the player rubenwardy: I did it mainly to annoy KGM, and it worked - within a few hours, it caught him 12W​arr1024: haha, nice rubenwardy: Minetest focuses the first field, so you can make fields with no size and no label rubenwardy: I could have abused that remote execution vulnerability to run something like `sleep 30; killall minetest` but that's pretty certainly against the computer misuse act 12W​arr1024: sleep 30; shutdown -hp now 12W​arr1024: computer misuse act ... is that like a british Computer Fraud and Abuse Act or something? rubenwardy: xdg-open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ rubenwardy: Yeah, it's the main law that hackers are prosecuted under rubenwardy: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/18/contents 04L​one_Wolf: Would it be possible to add something to your server rules that allow you to get around that? 12W​arr1024: I dunno about where you live, but in the USA you can probably get past that by sending a chat message at join time saying "by playing on this server you agree to the terms in https://whatever/ctf-server-eula" or something. Shrink-wrap contracts are legal here, it seems. That EULA can simply state that they authorize you to send any data you want to their client and they accept responsibility for the consequences and indemnify yo MTDiscord: against any damages. 04L​one_Wolf: heh, neat 04L​one_Wolf: CTF automatically shows rules to new players, could just pop something in there 12W​arr1024: The NodeCore Community server actually has essentially a shrink-wrap contact that you need to accept to play, and one of the things it states is that by playing you agree to retain copyright to anything you build, BUT irrevocably license all such work under CC0 terms. 12W​arr1024: You can actually still use and license your own builds under any other terms you want, in addition, but you can't deny others access to any use of any part of the full map dump, basically. aperson9: hi 11J​onathon: hello specing: rubenwardy: hmm, without / it gets forwarded to chat rubenwardy: no, the name in the table does not include the / specing: W​arr1024 Thanks, but this is also a practice for writing CSMs. I'd also like the stuff to be in a less memory intensive and easier-to-parse format, like CSV rubenwardy: the chat command /test is registered_chatcommands["test"] specing: rubenwardy: okay, but it does not work specing: hence me asking how to call them specing: rubenwardy: the preview mod has core.register_chatcommand("text", { rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest-mods/irc_commands/blob/master/init.lua#L105 specing: but /text says "Invalid command: text" rubenwardy: oh right rubenwardy: the client-side prefix is `.` rubenwardy: I think, there's a setting specing: ah, that worked rubenwardy: I thought you meant programmatically specing: [PREVIEW][modchannels] Received signal id `0` on channel `experimental_preview specing: Segmentation fault specing: wow Krock: pretty cool Krock: though Minetest shouldn't crash from that specing: Are the individual CSM restrictions documented somewhere? Krock: minetest.conf.example and perhaps lua_api.txt DS-minetest: #1 ShadowBot: DS-minetest: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB. DS-minetest: #10493 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10493 -- Devtest: Add mod to enable and test zoom by paramat DS-minetest: #1 ShadowBot: DS-minetest: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB. DS-minetest: #1000 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1000 -- Fix entity duplication once and for all by celeron55 DS-minetest: #7000 ShadowBot: DS-minetest: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB. DS-minetest: why doesn't work ShadowBot for all issues/PRs anymore? Krock: perhaps the website format changed DS-minetest: so, it might be github's fault DS-minetest: when will minetest migrate to some other git service, like gitlab? 11G​reenXenith: Never, hopefully DS-minetest: huh, why? 04L​one_Wolf: I haven't found anything that beats my dark theme for Github so far 11G​reenXenith: Every other git host has more issues than is worth dealing with DS-minetest: micro$oft already changed some things in github (mostly design, afaik). and the plan was to emigrate out of github when things are getting worse 11G​reenXenith: I dont see anything getting functionally worse 11G​reenXenith: So they changed the UI a bit. Its not like GitHub wouldnt do that without Microsoft. 11G​reenXenith: Even with the UI changes, it is still way more usable than GitLab or others. 11G​reenXenith: And you also have to remember, GitHub is still GitHub. It's just a subsidiary of Microsoft. DS-minetest: could you give an example for something that makes gitlab less usable? DS-minetest: also, a problem with github is that minetest has less contributors. of course it's still github, but there are people who ran away 11G​reenXenith: The login system is jank, the performance sucks, repo navigation is unintuitive (or was, that may be fixed). 11G​reenXenith: I am fairly certain we have gained more contributors since the Microsoft acquisition than we lost. 11G​reenXenith: IMO, people that refuse to contribute because Minetest uses GitHub are like the people that think this Discord server/bridge shouldn't exist: Generally unhelpful and not good for the community (with some exceptions, of course). sfan5: "I think other people should not be able to use their prefered platform" and "I will not contribute to this project because they use a platform I avoid" are entirely different standpoints 11G​reenXenith: That is a fair point 10H​exBubble: He green can you check #servers ? 10H​exBubble: Thanks that would help. 11G​reenXenith: Hey Hex can you not ask offtopic questions in offtopic channels? Thanks. 10H​exBubble: What? 10H​exBubble: Oh okay Thanks 11G​reenXenith: Anyway 11G​reenXenith: "I will not contribute to this project because they use a platform I avoid" as a reason itself is perfectly fine. Avoiding GitHub like the plague because Microsoft saved it from imminent death is not fine. The amount of effort it takes to use burner information to avoid the posibility of sketchy businesses acquiring your info is negligible. Using GitHub does not mean "I support Microsoft and their business practices and values" 11G​reenXenith: It's less the standpoint I dont like, more the reasoning behind it. DS-minetest: huh, I didn't know that github was dying Flitzpiepe: what can be used then for common projects? rubenwardy: not using a platform because it's owned by a company you see as malicious is a better reason than not using a platform because you can't be bothered to learn its interface or sign up to it 11G​reenXenith: I didnt say I couldnt be bothered to learn the interface or sign up. I said the interface is unintuitive to use and the login system (not sign up) is janky 11G​reenXenith: Just because a parent company may be malicious doesnt mean the subsidiary suddenly is SwissalpS: lol rubenwardy :) 12W​arr1024: I can't remember off the top of my head, but there are products/services that I do not use specifically because too many people have told me I should use them. SwissalpS: if you want to help a project along, it should not matter where the code is hosted 11G​reenXenith: Exactly 12W​arr1024: What matters is whether you want to help the project more than you want to not use the tools the project is using. SwissalpS: and git makes it so easy, you don't need to use the interface for the most part SwissalpS: only to sign up and upload your key 12W​arr1024: If "I don't like GH" is enough of a reason for you not to contribute to MT, then you didn't really want all that strongly to contribute in the first place. rubenwardy: in which case, you can move to GL rubenwardy: Warr1024: you underestimate how much people dislike microsoft rubenwardy: they just need to dislike microsoft more than liking minetest 11G​reenXenith: What do we need? Matrix for git? Unify the git hosts? Geez. rubenwardy: there's one good contributor we've mostly lost because of this: pgimeno 11G​reenXenith: My point is that disliking Microsoft is not a good reason for disliking GitHub rubenwardy: I think it is 11G​reenXenith: They are completely different companies 11G​reenXenith: GitHub didn't suddenly adopt Microsoft business practices and values 11G​reenXenith: It didnt suddenly become Microsoft 11G​reenXenith: GitHub is still GitHub rubenwardy: they're not completely different, because microsoft is a majority stakeholder specing: Krock: I've grepped and grepped to no avail specing: Krock: also no mod seems to be using those specing: DS-minetest: enjoy the lock-in 11G​reenXenith: Even if you truely believe GitHub may as well be Microsoft, there is not much keeping you from using burner information for a GitHub account. rubenwardy: Minetest saw a large increase in users when Minecraft was bought by Microsoft rubenwardy: for a long time, that day was the peak visitors on the forums and website 11G​reenXenith: Mojang was already killing Minecraft before Microsoft bought it 11G​reenXenith: Microsoft didn't change the development direction, it just sped it up (because money) specing: I have a github account, but I've decided to no longer use it for FOSS development specing: cca 18 months ago specing: Now contributions to github projects are 1) attempt to send patch by email, 2) drop patch into pastebin and paste into IRC 3) screw it, I'll just maintain my fork Krock: specing: preview is a CSM in clientmods/ specing: Krock: I know rubenwardy: fwiw, I don't dislike GitHub rubenwardy: #7901 ShadowBot: rubenwardy: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB. rubenwardy: !title https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7901 MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Accepting PRs/patches from non-Github users · Issue #7901 · minetest/minetest · GitHub sfan5: MinetestBot fetches up to 16KB to look for a title jfindlay: having worked at microsoft, I can say that it's more likely that microsoft is becoming more like github than the other way around. Also, microsoft is an old, huge company with hundreds of divisions doing all kinds of things; the new guard is very ascendant and even owns the office of the CEO. The Gates/Ballmer days of aggressiveness or loyalty over technology are long gone. They are open sourcing 10J​ordach: honest the move from office cubicles to a university campus like setup has proven wonders for cross pollination of ideas and things a1fa: tried that too a1fa: does that go in the game mod conf or server conf? 12W​arr1024: the server's conf, I'm fairly sure a1fa: that i did a1fa: i put it in mod conf, and looks like the fire is subsiding 12W​arr1024: oh, right, I missed the part about MCL2. I'm pretty sure one of those settings (disable_fire or enable_fire) works for MTG, but MCL2 might be entirely different 12W​arr1024: To get a definitive answer, you may have to check the docs for MCL2 itself, or possibly even go digging in the source. Not all games necessarily have the option to disable fire. a1fa: thanks a1fa: cpu is down to normal :) fire looks like to be under control specing: I just did a tcpdump since there's nothing going on around me and I'm receiving 100KB/s from the server specing: and the packet log is full of 512 byte UDP packats filled with seemingly random data specing: any clues as to what that could be? specing: Maybe map updates? specing: They all start with OEt SwissalpS: https://github.com/SwissalpS/ultrasonic Upgraded sonic screwdriver that works on frequencies we cannot hear. Also can rotate backwards. jas_: is that so, krock? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04JosiahWI -> 03minetest/minetest: Pass ContentFeatures as reference to read_content_features (#10464) 1311f3deb https://git.io/JTqnR (152020-10-13T15:36:01Z) 08B​uckarooBanzai: SwissalpS: technic compatible? SwissalpS: technic dependant SwissalpS: it needs all kinds of technic items to craft it and the code is basically same as sonic screwdriver, just with added and removed functions SwissalpS: minus noise, plus backward rotation SwissalpS: the backward rotation could easily be added to sonic screwdriver. Was skeptical anybody would want to remove the audio from upstream, so I made it it's own mod SwissalpS: sonic needs a sound while ultrasonic is in-audible MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid drawing invisible blocks on the client. 13521a042 https://git.io/JTqRt (152020-10-13T16:30:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add ObjectRef:get_children() (#10480) 132341a4a https://git.io/JTqSs (152020-10-13T19:27:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix float argument check in minetest.set_timeofday() (#10483) 137499ebe https://git.io/JTqSz (152020-10-13T19:28:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: update gradle, NDK and built tools version 132ca81d6 https://git.io/JTqSg (152020-10-13T19:28:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: add ci with saving artifacts 13e831ebd https://git.io/JTqS2 (152020-10-13T19:28:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: get deps as a zip archive and sqlite3 from official source 1305436fb https://git.io/JTqSa (152020-10-13T19:28:31Z) hecks: Does register_craftitem also count against the 16k node definitions limit? rubenwardy: no, only nodes sfan5: items do not have ids hecks: cool rubenwardy: yeah, the limit comes from content_ids, which are only allocated to nodes hecks: there is no meta field that allows overriding an item's sprite, is there? rubenwardy: not currently, there was a PR for that iirc hecks: got the pr number? maybe it can be cleaned up and finished hecks: it's not that important if I have infinite itemdefs to work with, but it would be a little cleaner rubenwardy: #9354 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9354 -- Allow setting item texture from stack metadata by lisacvuk hecks: does item meta have mark_as_private? sfan5: no hecks: :[ yup, just tried hecks: time to store an opaque ID number and shadow the meta with meta-meta MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Document how to work with ClangFormat (#10468) 13fc2e120 https://git.io/JTmJA (152020-10-13T22:57:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest hand tool: Update capabilities, add creative mode capabilitie… 132f871e3 https://git.io/JTmUt (152020-10-13T22:59:47Z) jas_: https://github.com/jamesalexanderstevenson/jastest/blob/master/mods/warpstones/init.lua is my current version. jas_: i don't recommend it. in the past i have made formspecs which make things clear. the original warps mod is great, because it's so simple jas_: i hope you can fix it and submit a PR :-) jas_: i can guess simply changing "default = true" to "give_to_admin = true" would work specing: Player bodies are all messed up in latest git jas_: player bodies? specing: yes jas_: like, character.b3d? specing: https://pic.infini.fr/04SgubTe/KWOUt5vF.png jas_: oh that playeranim mod? specing: No idea what it is, but it's messed up, and it's not messed up in 5.3 jas_: i noticed that with the head movement mod... one of them. that uses head movement there in that screenshot? specing: No idea, I'm just a player.. so far jas_: normally when a player moves their view, the head moves too? jas_: i am wondering if it's something to do with a specific mod jas_: !mod playeranim MinetestBot: jas_: Bone-Based Animation [playeranim] by Rui - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12189 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/playeranim jas_: some newer version, perhaps specing: I'm building 5.3.0 now jas_: ye i am on current HEAD too and this is playeranim: https://i.imgur.com/cfJaOE3.png specing: 5.3.0 is normal jas_: egads! jas_: i think i heard this referenced somewhere jas_: is there some other version of this mod newer that does work? i dunno jas_: maybe it was a github issue, or here on irc. i'm going to go outside and do the thing that's legal where i live now haha jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: LPKI Monsters | mt.lpki.org | Clients: 1/50, 0/1 | Version: 5.4.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 60ms jas_: bah, keep timing out. riff-IRC: LPKI sounds line of like a radio station... switch the L and K and you get KPLI, which sounds a lot like a radio station. jas_: WPKI for me jas_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WBLM specing: Where is the CSM API documented? in the preview mod? specing: ah doc/client_lua_api.txt SoylentCow: went to sf for the weekend, and finally visited one of the finest sculptures ever: http://tehightime.net/i-am-with-cupid.jpg riff-IRC: Where is this? SoylentCow: embarcadero, san francisco SoylentCow: cupid's span by claes oldenburg * riff-IRC: nods specing: Hmm, why is formspec doc part of CSM doc? jas_: i think originally it was lua_api.txt and they stripped stuff out, but not all of it? i really don't know. that file is a bit funky i agree specing: sfan5: re switching inventory stacks and all in CSM (from a month ago), you said that there is a client already implementing something similar? specing: all I could find were patches to disable noclip/fly checks... :/ Corey[m]: I found some odd behaviour with optional dependencies: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10482 lisbeths: wow this channel is big lisbeths: whats the lastest news in the minetest community lisbeths: what websites do you generally communicate on? bingfengfsx: github and mt forum bingfengfsx: ; ) lisbeths: When I first started playing minetest I didnt think it was good enough to replace minecraft, but now I think it more or less is bingfengfsx: Minetest is not much worse than Minecraft except that the image quality is not refined enough. lisbeths: the newest minecraft barely runs on my pc and minetest runs instantly and smoothly. minecraft does not seem to respect the java edition Calinou: what do you mean by image quality? Vanilla Minetest rendering is very similar to Minecraft's Calinou: unless you meant the textures themselves Calinou: (if you own Minecraft, it's possible to convert those to Minetest) jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Miniclime [stable] by azekill_DIABLO - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17579 - https://github.com/azekillDIABLO/miniclime jas_: 'cause there's something in a sunday \ that makes the body feel alone jas_: i wouldn't have guessed that's a weather mod -- i guess 'clime' is like climate Corey[m]: well so much for me fixing dependencies, I just completely broke the optional loading specing: I've been reading the minetest source a bit, and from what I gather, to implement CSM worldedit I'd have to hook into key input, probably the way RandomInputHandler::step does it, from CSM on step function specing: then switch states in CSM on_dig and other handlers specing: Is this a correct observation? sfan5: wha? sfan5: you can more easily just send the right INTERACT packets to the server specing: Hmm specing: I also noticed that specing: I wonder if sending interact in rapid succession allows you to break blocks much faster than normally possible with tool in hand specing: sfan5: tool wear is handled server-side, right? sfan5: would be stupid if it was sfan5: n't specing: well yes, but since in the span of doing this I learned how to fly without fly and noclip without noclip... * specing: goes back to reading api specing: I suppose minetest.register_on_item_use(function(item, pointed_thing))` lets me evaluate tool wear specing: and act before breakage 11I​hrFussel: There are fly and noclip hacks cause server side physics are difficult to implement 11I​hrFussel: The server doesn't even know when a client actually enables fly or noclip...it happens all client side specing: difficult to implement? They are already implemented client side, so it's just a matter of server load to move them server-side 04L​one_Wolf: I think MT packets should be improved before we start doing server-side animation 04L​one_Wolf: You can technically do server-side movement with entity attaching though 04L​one_Wolf: *server-side movement 11I​hrFussel: You can see that the screen tends to chug along when attached to an entity and have a certain speed 11I​hrFussel: MT is absolutely not ready for full server side physics 04L​one_Wolf: I think Jordach managed it by decreasing the time between each server step 10J​ordach: @IhrFussel it is lad 11I​hrFussel: Server with quite a few mods cannot run at 0.05 steps or whatever you set it to in order to work properly 10J​ordach: Then your server needs caffeine JITters 11I​hrFussel: I want a server side solution that still works at 0.1 or even 0.15 steps 10J​ordach: Department of dtimr 10J​ordach: That and I abuse after because local functions execute faster than global step can Krock: people wonder why their mods cannot run faster yet request more callbacks in the API 10J​ordach: That and people use MT on cheap VPS that use Intel Atom tier x64 CPUs Krock: raspberry PI works okayish as well Ingar: I ran an MT server on my ARM VPS 10J​ordach: The only thing that concerns me with MT is uh 10J​ordach: Going to 60hz dtime 10J​ordach: Is network packet handling 10J​ordach: Network bandwidth isn’t the concern 10J​ordach: Because a few bytes a packet doesn’t hurt much 10J​ordach: And they’re not jumbo frames either 10J​ordach: Unironically Minetest needs to be split into two projects 10J​ordach: A client that lacks modding support and is networking only 10J​ordach: And a server that’s as it is now sfan5: how would that help? and with what? 10J​ordach: Networking and rendering 10J​ordach: Networking is already hot garbage and would be helped by a do over in a stand-alone client 10J​ordach: Rendering needs to be taken out back and shot 10J​ordach: How many shims have we needed to fix Irrlicht issues Corey[m]: Well, I think I understand why that dependency issue wasn't fixed, I just blew away hours of my life trying to fix it >: armeabi: hello? armeabi: can't really see earlier messages, but when i start a minetest game, the mouse cursor isn't disappearing, and i can't move my camera, or input anything to the game 04L​one_Wolf: Clicking on the window doesn't fix it? 04L​one_Wolf: What's your OS? armeabi: i'm on arch linux armeabi: using TWM armeabi: and as a stupidity test for me, clicking on the window /does not/ fix it Krock: yet no issue opened for input issues on TWM, though I know of a few issues with other WMs armeabi: i'm guessing the issues part is because almost nobody uses twm nowadays :shrug: Krock: does TWM support re-positioning the mouse cursor? armeabi: i believe so, wine worked for me on trackmania armeabi: i.e. it moved the mouse cursor to the game armeabi: and let me input in the window Krock: a TWM-managed Wine-window worked? that's kinda strange swift110: hey Krock armeabi: what's really weird is that minetest had actually worked beforehand when i first installed it, but a few launches later and it's happening Krock: hi swift110 10J​ordach: tried fullscreen? Krock: armeabi: try renaming minetest.conf inside ~/.minetest/ and launch minetest again. it will result in a clean start armeabi: same thing's happening after a rename, i'll try using a different WM 10J​ordach: armeabi: there's a fullscreen setting for Minetest that disables all forms of window control and decoration armeabi: what's the symbol for it..? armeabi: or the config setting armeabi: that i can add to minetest.conf 10J​ordach: screen_w = int 10J​ordach: screen_h = int Krock: fullscreen = true armeabi: ah armeabi: now when i run minetest this pops up, and my screen glitches out armeabi: minetest2020-10-12 19:44:14: [Main]: Automatically selecting world at [/root/.minetest/worlds/a]X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) Major opcode of failed request: 153 (XFree86-VidModeExtension) Minor opcode of failed request: 10 (XF86VidModeSwitchToMode) Value in failed request: 0x17 Serial armeabi: number of failed request: 18 Current serial number in output stream: 20 10J​ordach: do you even have a valid OpenGL drive 10J​ordach: driver armeabi: is there a way to check for that? 10J​ordach: does glxgears function as expected armeabi: i have intel iris plus graphics armeabi: give me a sec armeabi: yep, glxgears works 10J​ordach: tried compiling it? armeabi: not really, will try now armeabi: compiling it doesn't work either armeabi: going over to icewm and attempting to run it from there armeabi: *sigh* armeabi: apparently it DOES work with icewm\ armeabi: * apparently it DOES work with icewm Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! swift110: lol specing: > armeabi | i have intel iris plus graphics specing: something doesen't check out MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Give unnamed world names incrementing numbers. Format 'world'… 13d671102 https://git.io/JTLyr (152020-10-12T23:52:53Z) a1fa: hey - how do you put out a massive forset fire out in mineclone2? a1fa: disable_fire = true a1fa: did not work 12W​arr1024: enable_fire = false? 08T​woSpace: Hey unixbsd: would it be possibel to find minetest as well on the retropie, because there is only minecraft...? erlehmann: unixbsd, have you tried installing it via apt? erlehmann: retropie is debian based, is it? unixbsd: It runs very slow on the evilwm X11 environment. i guess it comes from the GL drivers... however minecraft uses SDL without Gl driver. unixbsd: *using the default driver of the pi* MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add missing type check to InvRef:set_lists() (#10476) 13272b723 https://git.io/JTTBI (152020-10-11T11:36:13Z) jas_: can i put and use all my server/minetest settings in the world's world.mt file, and empty/remove/stop using minetest.conf and --config ?? sfan5: world.mt is not a replacement for minetest.conf and per-world configs are not a thing yet sfan5: so no jas_: thank you for the clarification. it has annoyed me before how there are redundencies and potential surprises there jas_: :^) _Zaizen_: Hi everyone, I'm having a bit of troubles with metadata and itemstacks. I want to add a meta to a block that I added to the inventory of the player and I do that in this way: _Zaizen_: local stack = player:get_inventory():add_item("main", block_name) _Zaizen_: local meta = stack:get_meta() _Zaizen_: meta:set_string("arena", name) _Zaizen_: And this works fine. the problem is that when I place the node I can't retrieve the metadata by doing this: _Zaizen_: on_place = function(itemstack, placer, pointed_thing) _Zaizen_: local meta = itemstack:get_meta() _Zaizen_: local name = meta:get_string("arena")) _Zaizen_: Does anyone know what am I doing wrong? _Zaizen_: Ups, I forgot that pasting mess things up Krock: metadata is not preserved upon placing _Zaizen_: Oh, any idea on how I could do this then? Krock: on_place Krock: -> node_meta:set_string(itemstack_meta:get_string("arena")) Krock: something like that _Zaizen_: Ok, thanks, will try. skyliner_369: was hoping to find a Discord server for Minetest _Zaizen_: skyliner_369: here is the link to the UNOFFICIAL discord: https://discord.gg/Wr6eXU3 I hope they will move to something like matrix and make it official but until then we will have to stick with this. skyliner_369: thanks! honestly I just love the cool world gen and cubic worlds. the caves are cooler too. yay perlin caves _Zaizen_: Krock: unfortunately that solution didn't worked out. I'm placing the node with local itemstack, pos = minetest.item_place(itemstack, placer, pointed_thing) and if I try to get the meta from the returned itemstack it still doesn't find anything :/ Krock: you need to copy the fields manually _Zaizen_: What do you mean by that? Krock: copy from itemstack to node Krock: manually _Zaizen_: Krock: I copy the meta to the node but still doesn't seem to work. I do it in this way local itemstack, pos = minetest.item_place(itemstack, placer, pointed_thing) _Zaizen_: local itemstack_meta = itemstack:get_meta() _Zaizen_: local node_meta = minetest.get_meta(pos) _Zaizen_: node_meta:set_string("arena", itemstack_meta:get_string("arena")) _Zaizen_: If by saying "copy from itemstack to node" you mean something else, I'm sorry. Krock: pastebin pls _Zaizen_: krock: https://pastebin.com/VYShbc5N Krock: try after_place_node for the node you're placing Krock: i.e. define the node definition field for that and use the same code Krock: IIRC on_place cannot be overwritten for nodes Krock: nvm. it should be possible to overwrite anyway Krock: VE uses on_placenode. Dunno why. https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/-/blob/master/init.lua#L158-191 Krock: _Zaizen_: if you're placing the last item from the stack, you have to retrieve the metadata first because empty stacks cannot have metadata _Zaizen_: Krock: It's not the last item from the stack, also I'm in creative and the stack is never empty. Tried doing everything in after_place_node with small tweaks since it gives me the position but the metadata of the itemstack is still missing :/ PS: when I add the item to the stack I'm sure it has the meta so it's not beacause they are missing from the itemstack Krock: strange. try dumping the metadata in each step and check when it's lost _Zaizen_: Krock: I've solved the problem. Remember the way I've told I used to set the meta? Well it seems that it doesn't work. When you print the meta directly from the meta obtained by the stack returned by the add_item the meta shows up but it is never truly assigned. To get it working I had to do like this: local stack = ItemStack(block_name) _Zaizen_: local meta = stack:get_meta() _Zaizen_: meta:set_string("arena", name) _Zaizen_: player:get_inventory():set_stack("main", 1, stack) Krock: aha. Krock: yes that's the way _Zaizen_: Yeah, but I thought I was doing it right since the print showed everything correctly TwT _Zaizen_: Thanks for your help BTW, appreciate it Krock Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Wuzzy: specing: JT2 specing: ok Wuzzy Wuzzy: and recently Catlandia hehe Wuzzy: Inside The Box too but only if theres actually new levels specing: Wuzzy: ugh, my client is too new to check out JT2 Wuzzy: sorry, its a 0.4.17-only server specing: Do you know of any server with noisier mapgen? Wuzzy: no specing: Like, mountain 5000 blocks high Wuzzy: i dont know the noisier mapgen. specing: and oceans 5000 deep Wuzzy: is this a new mapgen? specing: No, noisier mapgen is the usual mapgen, but parameters tuned to produce bigger biomes, mountains, deeper seas... specing: as suggested by someone here specing: It's one of the things I miss in minetest... a more varied terrain specing: I remember the Sky(?) server 5 years ago by proller specing: that one was whack iirc 04L​one_Wolf: I've seen some pretty tall mountains/deep oceans in carpathian 04L​one_Wolf: I might have changed some of the mapgen flags though specing: I don't understand why the defaults are so conservative specing: the y limits are +- 31k, yet pretty much everything interesting happens at y=0 +- 50 11J​onathon: vineland survival uses carpathian if i recall correctly, not sure on the exact measurements tho 11I​hrFussel: Vanilla v7 mapgen generates mountains that go up to Y 200 so the '0 +- 50' claim is not entirely true Also v7 caves go super deep and can be huge jfindlay: I am trying to enable this mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12005, but I can't get it to work either in a server or a local game jfindlay: the `minetest --info` output says it's loaded but `/grant singleplayer warp_admin` says `Unknown privilege: warp_admin` jfindlay: and I can't find the node in creative mode jfindlay: running `Minetest 5.1.1 (Linux)` jas_: type /mods in-game and look for 'warps' to show up. https://github.com/minetest-mods/warps/blob/master/init.lua#L147 <- you should get it here jas_: https://github.com/minetest-mods/warps/blob/master/init.lua#L239 <- here is the node name, warps:warpstone jfindlay: thanks, it's showing up in the mod list, but I can't find `warpstone` in the creative mode inventory and none of the server commands, like `/setwarp` are working jfindlay: I have gotten other mods to work, so I can debug some more I guess jas_: look in the code, it's called, "A Warp Stone" and not "warpstone." perhaps creative mod doesn't account for it jas_: if you cannot grant yourself the `warp_admin' priv, then i doubt the mod is fully loaded jas_: sorry, i just tested and you are correct jas_: something has changed over the years, perhaps it is this line: https://github.com/minetest-mods/warps/blob/master/init.lua#L150 jas_: not sure why it is happening this way, and i would like to take a look at some point -- or perhaps someone else will (sofar?) jas_: brb jfindlay: yeah, maybe me :-) jfindlay: it's a great mod, I like the warpstone idea jas_: me too, i have used it many times rexconian: Hiya 09s​rinivas: heya jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Spiffy by poet.nohit - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11422 - https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game jas_: misc sounds in-game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRtdkDdSTlI independent56: is there somehwere i can find how to use digilines with my fire-safety mod? i want to be able to send "fire" on connected digilines, upon find of a fire block, and then get a fire extinguisher to react in response. independent56: i will reword my question: how would i use the minetest modding api to send a message over digilines? how can i make it so thatonce i recive a emssage, a script runs? can i see examples in code? is there documentation? sfan5: you're probably better off finding an existing mod that uses digilines and looking at how it does that sfan5: though I'm pretty sure there is some digilines documentation somewhere, have you looked? independent56: ok, will do :-) independent56: whydid i ever think this would be easy? Andrey: I want to add a new property for the button element (that should be processed mandatorily in 'parseButton()' and is it necessary to define a new formspec version, e.g '5' for that? Andrey: that is, change 244th line to '#define FORMSPEC_API_VERSION 5' ? Andrey: or may it leave as it is? Andrey: oops. seems wrong channel, this must be on dev fruitsnack: Is there a way to change item's wield texture or inventory texture post-server start? fruitsnack: (Or apply one of supported minetest texture manipulations) Krock: fruitsnack: no there's no way specing: Hello specing: What is with the weird TCPoverUDP or something that I've been told Minetest does? specing: Is TCP not good enough? On what grounds has SCTP been rejected? anon5[m]: it's not TCP over UDP anon5[m]: it's a layer over tcp anon5[m]: *udp Corey[m]: it's UDP, with some reliable packets thrown in for critical stuff anon5[m]: that allows for reliable data transfer with retained order and splitting of big packets into smaller ones because the internet can't transfer big ones anon5[m]: it's described at https://dev.minetest.net/Network_Protocol#Low-level_protocol specing: I see Menchers: was something changed to UTF-8 rendering in 5.x? I always get whenever something has a non-ascii char Menchers: it works fine most of the time in 0.4.x and forks, hence why I'm wondering if something changed in 5.x Menchers: I'm grepping through the code, having some trouble finding the relevant code 04L​one_Wolf: I think it's a warning that wasn't fully operational or something 04L​one_Wolf: You'd see it all the time in servers where mobile users posted emojis in chat 04L​one_Wolf: At least I think it was emojis rubenwardy: are you compiling with freetype? Menchers: yes Menchers: hm, actually, now that I opened up final-minetest to check, it doesn't have any non-ascii characters in the F5 debug info Menchers: I think minetest does Menchers: I think it's a degree symbol (°) after the yaw Menchers: so probably I can't see UTF-8 non-ascii chars in 0.4 and forks either 04L​one_Wolf: Isn't final minetest just 0.4 with some extra commits? rubenwardy: just tested, it works for me Menchers: yeah Menchers: I mean, how many extra commits, isn't 5 0.4 with extra commits? :P rubenwardy: https://rwdy.uk/VLeyg.png Menchers: is there a degree symbol in the F5 debug info? rubenwardy: yes Menchers: so I guess that's why I can't see it rubenwardy: it happens with or without f5 shown Menchers: ? Menchers: what happens? rubenwardy: it shows correctly Menchers: ok Menchers: so Unicode support is broken for me somehow * Menchers: thinks the hud code seems obfuscated :P Menchers: hmm, the official build works Menchers: openbsd official, not minetest official Menchers: will have to see if there are any patches in the port MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add a short_description to be used by mods (#8980) 13f3ae45b https://git.io/JTv73 (152020-10-09T18:11:21Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Add bumpmapping and parallax occlusion testing nodes to devtest (#9242) 13c61c175 https://git.io/JTv7o (152020-10-09T18:13:42Z) 09s​rinivas: hmm, ye, but again, for it to have that parabolic part it needs a x/z component too 04L​one_Wolf: x/z = 0 would be throwing it straight upwards sammy: Hi Guest92572: I am getting error in mineclone subgame Guest92572: Can anyone help? Guest92572: Hello Guest92572: I am getting error in mineclone subgame 11I​hrFussel: What is the error Guest92572: it says it failed to load script in line 97 or something like that. 11I​hrFussel: We need the exact error message 11I​hrFussel: Try to copy & padte it or write the line with the file and line nunber down 11I​hrFussel: number* sam78: Hi.I had my internet connection problem. sam78: I am getting error running mineclone subgame in my minetest game.Can you help? sam78: ModError: Failed to load and run script from /home/rimas/.minetest/games/mineclone2/mods/ITEMS/mcl_maps/init.lua:.../.minetest/games/mineclone2/mods/ITEMS/mcl_maps/init.lua:97: attempt to call field 'is_creative_enabled' (a nil value)stack traceback: .../.minetest/games/mineclone2/mods/ITEMS/mcl_maps/init.lua:97: in main chunkCheck debug.txt for sam78: details. sam78: can you help? I am getting an error running mineclone sam78: Hi sam78: can you help me? Elouin: sam78: maybe as in #mineclone2 Elouin: *ask sam78: okey MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix box[]es not being clipped (#10473) 13b2f3f66 https://git.io/JUjSm (152020-10-08T17:44:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Mention texture modifier colorspace (#10112) 13f0b6f79 https://git.io/JUjSY (152020-10-08T17:44:27Z) Krock: MTDiscord: help Krock: MTDiscord: list ttamttam: Hello everyone! I'm just checking out minetest for the time and am looking into doing some modding for it when I get time. I usually play minecraft but idea of worlds deeper than a puddle and the opensource community has gotten my interest. Additionally, I avoid java, I would much rather work in C/Cpp or python, and lua is fine too. NetherEran: welcome :) ttamttam: Oof, I've got a lot of typos, sorry about that, my irc client only has one line to view my messages with... I might ask some questions here but for now I have to read up on the docs so I don't waste the time of any modders. But first I've got uni work to do :( Thank you for the welcome! 11J​onathon: krock: need something? Krock: no. just wondered 11J​onathon: a list of members would return 1078 results 11J​onathon: :p Krock: oh 11J​onathon: and 121 showing online, away, idle right now, altho those aren't really worth much since you can change them 11J​onathon: like im always invisible(offline) 09s​rinivas: no, it can be changed in the conf file 09s​rinivas: iirc specing: Whatis the minimum specing: is the minimum just the players chunk? specing: Is there any guarantee at all? SwissalpS: if I'm not mistaken, it's blocks that are loaded, not chunks Out`Of`Control: 16x16 ? SwissalpS: a block is 16x16x16 nodes luk3yx: Why not rename "block" so people stop getting confused? 11I​hrFussel: Isn't a 'chunk' in MC 16x256x16? Or maybe that was just in the old version 11I​hrFussel: Or was it 64 height? I read something about that being the reason why the height limit was so low NetherEran: it's 256 high, used to be 128 ages ago 11I​hrFussel: Yeah but do you know if it still generates Y 256 as one chunk? 11I​hrFussel: Cause that would he a huge difference compared to MT which always only generates 16x16x16 mapblocks 09w​war: I think MC has low Y lvl so; 1-People wont go deeper and deeper to get more materials easily, On mining: going down is fastest way to get materials. 2-On Anarchy and PvP servers, if people amke their base veryyy deep it will ruin the map's idea. 3-irl human cant go very deep tempreture increases and rocks be harder ro break :v jas_: is that emulated anywhere? in mc2 for example? jas_: i like the idea of sectioning the various slices of the map world, since it's so large jas_: caverealms down below, wasteland on surface, plastic flat skyland up high jas_: then you can teleport between these three worlds, for example. i only ever played mt rubenwardy: Deepest mine in the world is currently 3km. That's with modern technology jas_: ye but are there dungeon masters? jas_: it only makes me think how, with minetest, you can make a realistic world, a minecraft world, or any world you want specing: by "chunk" I refer to a 16**3 cube of nodes 09w​war: > Deepest mine in the world is currently 3km. That's with modern technology @rubenwardy@IRC#0000 but we use pickaxes XD 09w​war: > by "chunk" I refer to a 16**3 cube of nodes True, a chunk should be cube 04o​neplustwo: > is that emulated anywhere? in mc2 for example? @jas_@IRC#0000 there is bedrock in mineclone, but there is no upper y limit i think (or was it 32000? idk) anon5[m]: there is an upper limit of ~31000 in the minetest engine anon5[m]: this limit actually applies to all directions from 0,0,0 11I​hrFussel: Doesn't MT even use the term chunk?? IIRC a chunk is what MT generates at once...was it 5x5x5 mapblocks? Or something like that 11I​hrFussel: By default I mean...you can set the chunk size to something else 11I​hrFussel: Yeah I found it in the lua API doc... 'mapchunk' is (usually/by default) 80x80x80 nodes and is the volume generated in one operation by the mapgen 04o​neplustwo: i thought it was mapblock and you could tweak how large it was 11I​hrFussel: A mapblock is 16x16x16 nodes and a mapchunk is 5x5x5 mapblocks...you cannot change the size of a mapblock it is hardcoded everywhere 04o​neplustwo: ah i see 11I​hrFussel: But you can adjust the chunk size...increasing it will probably take a ton more resources 11d​ievri: Hello. I would like to make entity flying from point A to B on like half-ellipse (or ballistic) trajectory. How can I approach this? 04L​one_Wolf: Give it an initial y velocity upwards and set a negative y acceleration 11d​ievri: Lone_Wolf, thanks! 09s​rinivas: and an x velocity? 09s​rinivas: so you are looking for a parabolic path, in other words, a projectile motion. so you need some x velocity, some negative y acceleration at the minimum, and optionally, some y velocity. 04L​one_Wolf: The x/z can stay constantly pointing towards the destination MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Prevent games from setting secure settings (#10460) 13e80fc22 https://git.io/JUN7y (152020-10-06T11:10:37Z) andrew: uh, worldedits are soo ram consuming andrew: crashed my server rubenwardy: be careful on the size you use it on rubenwardy: worldedit will warn when you start to edit a large number of nodes andrew: ik andrew: //y is dangerous 09s​rinivas: but that limit imo is too small sfan5: true andrew: toops sfan5: !c math.log(10000, 3) MinetestBot: 8.38361309715754 sfan5: uh wait sfan5: !c math.pow(10000, 1/3) MinetestBot: 21.544346900318832 andrew: Crap, my server crashed andrew: hm andrew: !ping andrew: !c 1*4 MinetestBot: 4 andrew: P2020-10-06 12:27:56: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: Runtime error from mod 'playeranim' in callback environment_Step(): /root/snap/minetest/1619/.minetest/mods/playeran andrew: Uh rubenwardy: is it up to date? anon5[m]1: it would be nice to be able to see mapblock borders specing: anon5[m]1: install tubelib and punch the forceload block perrier: I had a few crashes from cave lighting mod. Might be the mese torches. SwissalpS: anon5[m]1: I wrote postool mod for that. https://github.com/SwissalpS/postool SwissalpS: also offers configurable hud to show coordinates in nodes and blocks Krock: simple_protection can do that too SwissalpS: any mod showing grids will have some quirkiness to it, but if you move around, it's very useful MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Calinou -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve the `fsaa` setting description (#10279) 13aae7d4f https://git.io/JUA6s (152020-10-06T18:50:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Add minetest.get_artificial_light and minetest.get_natural_light (#5680) 132f40377 https://git.io/JUA6G (152020-10-06T18:49:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: -Wmem-access only called when GCC > 7 (#10453) 13a37e96e https://git.io/JUA6g (152020-10-06T18:51:27Z) specing: Can I rely on "minetest loads 3x3x3 chunks centered around the chunk where the player is"? perrier: I used to play mineclone. 09s​rinivas: is it possible to alias a modname andrew: close MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unused functions reported by cppcheck (#10463) 13f46509d https://git.io/JUFRh (152020-10-05T07:07:33Z) luk3yx: jas_: Have you considered using a lua-based SSCSM implementation (such as https://github.com/GreenXenith/sscsm_ssm or https://github.com/luk3yx/minetest-sscsm) for your mods instead of distributing a separate CSM for each one? jas_: oh, no, i hadn't. thanks, i'll look into it! :D jas_: (i did combine them into a single CSM mod, and started distributing with the game itself, anyway: https://github.com/jamesalexanderstevenson/jastest/tree/master/jastest_csm ) jas_: but uhh, yeah, i'll check out these two links you've shared -- thanks again Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: I wana have some help Miniontoby: check https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22339&p=381791#p381791 Miniontoby: I wana make an door which is controlable with an doorbell from anywhere Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 is up (172ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30001 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30001 is up (171ms) (IPv4) jas_: MinetestBot: do local door = doors.get(pos) and then door:open(player) and door:close(player) jas_: oops, that was for Miniontoby Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: but I wana make a special door jas_: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/game_api.txt#L192 Miniontoby: sorry Miniontoby: I cant open that Miniontoby: school blocks it Miniontoby: github = it jas_: do you have the repo? jas_: the directory is the repo jas_: so as long as you have minetest_game somewhere, you have game_api.txt Miniontoby: minetest game Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: ok jas_: read that, it will tell you how to make a custom door, and how to use the doors API jas_: welcome back Miniontoby: I wanted to be conected from NL Miniontoby: not fr Miniontoby: verne.freenode.net Miniontoby: this one jas_: ok Miniontoby: join #miniontoby Miniontoby: its mine jas_: kinda picky, but jas_: join ##news Miniontoby: I will see Miniontoby: I wana register my own locked door which is only openable with doorbell or owner jas_: check out mechanisms.lua in xdecor jas_: but if you make a locked door, it will operate like a steel door for example, and then just register the doorbell to only work with that one door? Miniontoby: ye Miniontoby: pleas echeck the url Miniontoby: check https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22339&p=381791#p381791 jas_: so in the doorbell, have it check for doors:miniontoby_door and doors:open(miniontoby) if present? Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: at the forum link there are the points I wana use Miniontoby: which I need an formspec for Miniontoby: whcih does functions Miniontoby: https://ca.xeroxirc.net/formspec-editor/ jas_: the formspec will send fields, then minetest.register_on_player_receive_fields will do the functions Miniontoby: this can I use to create Miniontoby: ok jas_: i can't open that Miniontoby: I also not Miniontoby: I think its down jas_: i was joking at first Miniontoby: !title https://ca.xeroxirc.net/formspec-editor/ jas_: heh Miniontoby: !title https://ca.xeroxirc.net/formspec-editor/ MinetestBot: urllib.error.URLError: (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/urllib/request.py", line 1327, in do_open) MinetestBot: urllib.error.URLError: (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/urllib/request.py", line 1327, in do_open) Miniontoby: hmmm Miniontoby: ERR_CONNECTION_RESET Miniontoby: it doesnt work Miniontoby: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15236 jas_: size[8,8]button[0,0;2,1;db_id;Ring Doorbell => if fields.db_id then doors:open(player) Miniontoby: no Miniontoby: it need to be settings Miniontoby: like: Miniontoby: open door on ring, open door on cmd, open door only by owner jas_: oh like checkboxes? to determine behavior of doorbell? Miniontoby: I will need to get learning Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: but then 1 choise Miniontoby: but then 1 choice Miniontoby: btw what language do you speak jas_: oh i see, then perhaps a dropdown[] is better than multiple checkboxes[] jas_: idk jas_: i only know english, sorry Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: I can speak Dutch jas_: that is cool Miniontoby: yes jas_: what other languages do you know? Miniontoby: I can transalte Miniontoby: Im rn at school at French Miniontoby: and I learn German jas_: so englush, french, german, and dutch?! TRE MAGNIFIQUE (or something) Miniontoby: let me check rubenwardys modding book Miniontoby: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/players/formspecs.html Miniontoby: I see jas_: you know, you can do formspecs in different places, including in the node itself. you can register the doorbell with its own builtin formspec, and builtin on_receive_fields Miniontoby: after Miniontoby: Node Meta Formspecs Miniontoby: ye jas_: so i see two main options, yes: Node Meta Data, or not Miniontoby: ok jas_: i think in your case with the doorbell the formspec and receive_fields should be inside the node definition jas_: and then perhaps set its state using metadata:set_int, etc Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: btw I need to inplement translating just before I start with this jas_: local S = minetest.get_translator("mymodname") jas_: then S("text") whereever jas_: and then i think you make a locale directory and populate it, but i dunno Miniontoby: ik jas_: ok Miniontoby: I got more than 1k downloads jas_: nice! Miniontoby: yes jas_: now, if you want to interact with the doorbell from somewhere away from the node, like from a command or IRC, then you'll have to account for all the in-game doorbells... ? Miniontoby: ik jas_: perhaps handle all the stuff inside the node itself, and once its setup properly and activated, it registers itself in the DoorbellDatabase jas_: oh ok Miniontoby: Cool jas_: just braindstorming here, let us know when you get further and show us :D Miniontoby: I dont know how to use sqlite Miniontoby: so I will not use that jas_: well, we can use simple key=value stuff in lua tables jas_: that qualifies as a "database," though i was using the term loosely Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: ye Miniontoby: do you know how to use Got Miniontoby: I got GOT Miniontoby: (game of trees) jas_: no i dunno it, do you mean Git? no, i dunno GOT Miniontoby: for hosting jas_: game of trees, hehe no is that a minetest game? Miniontoby: not git Miniontoby: No jas_: oh no, i never heard of it. Miniontoby: openbsd Miniontoby: packages Miniontoby: package jas_: oh cool! a zero, a one, a one zero one one! Miniontoby: I got an openbsd Miniontoby: vps jas_: i love openbsd jas_: i use to get them in the mail Miniontoby: minetest.orange.ircnow.org jas_: they came with musics, prolly still do? Miniontoby: is on an openbsd jas_: each release had a theme song Miniontoby: I got only known linux (raspberry pi) before jas_: i got that pf book too, what a trip Miniontoby: now I kinda know Miniontoby: how unix works jas_: but i'm back on debian because it's easy and nice to me jas_: so much to learn! lots of fun... what do you like to do in france? Miniontoby: idk Miniontoby: I like German more than French jas_: what do you like to do in germany? Miniontoby: idk jas_: so cool, good for you i wish you the very best Miniontoby: but the language is like Durch jas_: in your studies and travels Miniontoby: but the language is like Dutch jas_: oh i see jas_: i took a german language class once but i didn't retain anything Miniontoby: btw im making my mtserverrequest site useing sqlite in stead of mysql Miniontoby: its soooo much more difficult jas_: yeah sqlite3 made my head hurt and i don't want to ever go back there jas_: i really wanna learn blender tho Miniontoby: ye Miniontoby: I use paint3D Miniontoby: for 3d models Miniontoby: or something on the web jas_: i wanna modify the 3d_armor model and add a crouch, and a detachable backpack Miniontoby: for nodeboxes I use the nodebox editor jas_: that program is really great, i used it before, to make the backpack model actually Miniontoby: I got an node which gots an hole in every middle of the sides jas_: but if there was one thing i would want to learn, it'd be C++ and the quake code, and work on the physics in minetest. it's my dream to strafejump in minetest Miniontoby: with a mod I am able to get small enoguh jas_: oh yeah, that change for collisionboxes is great! i can sneak under 1-node high holes too, it's really fun Miniontoby: c++ i am leanring yeah, I got a start of an per game menu jas_: don't hesitate to ask if you need more help with the doorbell Miniontoby: just with json Miniontoby: https://miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org/my.domain/forum/main_forum.php Miniontoby: dont use it rn Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: I got my own irc Miniontoby: https://miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org/my.domain/tooltip.html Miniontoby: check the tooltips Miniontoby: https://miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org/my.domain/misc/ Miniontoby: this is also cool Miniontoby: https://miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org/my.domain/misc/connect-four.html is really difficult Miniontoby: hmm jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Hidden Doors [hidden_doors] by Hamlet - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18294 - https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game Minionto: Miniontoby: Miniontoby: yes jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: Steamworks [0.4 OR 5.0+] | steam.edgy1.net:48016 | Clients: 0/15, 0/2 | Version: 2.0.0-dev / survivalworks-basic | Ping: 97ms fmlatghor: Is anyone here an admin on multicraft? I lost my password. perrier: I have a question. What mod makes it so you can use steel rods to make pickaxes? Emerald2: Hmmm that mod sounds familiar... Emerald2: All my brain is coming up with is the tools from when I played civtest, bah. Emerald2: Still digging around though. Emerald2: perrier: do you remember any more details about the mod? perrier: Not really I just seem to remember making axes with rods on a server. perrier: Maybe I'm imagining things. Emerald2: It kinda reminds me of xtraores or a mod like that. Emerald2: Looks like that uses sticks though... sorry I'm out of ideas now. perrier: no problem perrier: I'll look at xtraores. perrier: Still need sticks for mese torches so I can't eliminate wood entirely anyway. Emerald2: Not unless you change crafting recipes, anyway. perrier: Well if I can make my own recipes I might as well just use creative. perrier: I just struck granite and I installed technic so I think that's the one. perrier: Ocean stone is actually one of the prettiest types of stone in the game. specing: perrier: yes, it's quite pretty specing: perrier: which mod is it from? perrier: Maybe xocean perrier: Or more coral perrier: Do you eat the goblin's mushrooms? rndd: hi everyone! is there way to run minetest remotely and stream gameplay on local laptop? Krock: remote control software Krock: dunno about any "game straming" that works with Minetest Krock: rndd: perhaps this? https://parsecgaming.com/ rndd: Krock, hmmmmm. any foss alternative? Krock: dunno. I barely heard aobut parsec 09s​rinivas: also if the server is windoze, maybe rdp 09s​rinivas: but agian, not foss 09s​rinivas: vns is your foss alternative andrew: ,players andrew: XD wrong channel 09s​rinivas: ah, edgynet user? tomck: Hello! tomck: Is minetest still alive & kicking? andrew: Yes? andrew: Of course? tomck: What's development like / what's the main 'game' currently? Krock: tomck: no it's dead Krock: minetest_game is still the main game Krock: uuh. 6 commits yesterday. lit. specing: tomck: deader than the deadest tomck MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Jordach -> 03minetest/minetest: Add First Person Attachments (#10360) 133068853 https://git.io/JUdvF (152020-10-04T13:10:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix short 180 degree rotation when using set_bone_position (#10405) 130f98b54 https://git.io/JUdvb (152020-10-04T13:09:12Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Minimap as HUD element with API control 1381c66d6 https://git.io/JUdJK (152020-10-04T13:24:34Z) fruitsnack: hello, is there a way to stop swinging animation on a tool/item? fruitsnack: I mean not play it at all Krock: not yet Krock: there's already an issue about it, perhaps also a PR fruitsnack: ok thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Bombo: is there a way (mod) to see who set a node/block? Bombo: as client 11J​onathon: there is rollback 11J​onathon: if you have it enabled 11J​onathon: also depending on what level of logging you have, you can grep the logs for that pos perrier: I tried to make lava orbs and they didn't show up. I used the lava bucket and the mese crystals and lavastuff is installed. Any clues? 04L​one_Wolf: Is mobs_redo installed? perrier: yes 04L​one_Wolf: What about mobs_monster? perrier: yes 04L​one_Wolf: Okie, the recipe removed it self in favor of the Lava Flan method of getting orbs perrier: ah perrier: lava flan 04L​one_Wolf: If you have hoppers/pipeworks or a similar mod installed you can make a lava orb farm with a little work perrier: ok perrier: that's a lava monster? 04L​one_Wolf: You place down a wide field of lava, put a layer of ladders right below the sources, then leave a gap of 1-2 air nodes, and below that put water. The lava flans will spawn in the lava and fall through the ladders into the water, which kills them last I checked 04L​one_Wolf: Yeah perrier: wow perrier: So lava monsters drop orbs now you can't craft them? 04L​one_Wolf: Yeah 04L​one_Wolf: I originally made the mod intending it for use alongside mobs_monster. I later added the bucket recipe so it would work without mobs_monster perrier: I see. Lava stuff should be expensive. perrier: I havn't killed many lava flan so I don't know if I've ever found an orb. perrier: Another question. I used to encounter different types of stone in my digging like marble and granite etc. I'm not sure which mod supplied that. perrier: I have moreblocks installed but I don't think that's it. perrier: Is it technics? 04L​one_Wolf: I think so perrier: The only problem I have with technic is you have to use an alloy oven to make bronze which is significantly harder. perrier: Plus it will slow down my weak ass machine. perrier: I started useing mese torches for mining today which is cool they probably work underwater. perrier: I might do some cave diving. 04L​one_Wolf: Might be a mod that adds the pure nodes perrier: I'll keep looking. 04o​neplustwo: cant really be sure but i think if you punch a mob that is on water the knockback on the mob will continue indefinetely in mineclone. Copenhagen_Bram3: Will Minetest ever support more sound formats, music, and/or MIDI? 03B​enrob0329: Maybe if someone takes the time to implement it. 10J​ordach: MIDI support is literally blasting the channel data at the audio drier 03B​enrob0329: No, because thats literally useless for most setups 03B​enrob0329: You need a soft synth or soundfont to actually make that useful for most of the population who don't happen to have mid-90s music equipment lying around 13G​enshin: Minetest hates sounds, lol andrew: is there a way to install mt 0.4? andrew: on arch tygamer: Hello andrew: yeah i compile fom source tygamer: What's going on in here? andrew: nothing tygamer: rip andrew: just compiling 0.4 tygamer: Oh I see andrew: protocol version mismatch tygamer: What's new? andrew: nothing andrew: downloaded wrong tarball andrew: make -j8 Krock: Happy 7th birthday to myself (forum) Krock: 🎂🎉🎈 08a​ppguru: More like a "cakeday" then Krock: yes rubenwardy: Congrats 08a​ppguru: 🎊 was forgotten Krock: 🎉🎉🎊🎊🎉🎉🎉🎉 13G​enshin: Happy cake day Krock Krock: thank you, Genshin 08a​ppguru: Happy mese day! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04random-geek -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix scroll bar overlapping text (again) (#9058) 130750047 https://git.io/JU7aT (152020-10-03T16:34:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Reduce the FPS when the window is unfocused (#8837) 139dc29a7 https://git.io/JU7aI (152020-10-03T16:33:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Chatcommand: Show help message if func returns false without message 134b423ee https://git.io/JU7aL (152020-10-03T16:33:43Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04octacian -> 03minetest/minetest: Lua API: Add register_on_chatcommand to SSM and CSM (#7862) 137d36410 https://git.io/JU7a2 (152020-10-03T16:38:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Document builtin entities (#9453) 1341a6136 https://git.io/JU7re (152020-10-03T17:01:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Add note to docs on how to override privileges (#9792) 139624387 https://git.io/JU7rv (152020-10-03T17:00:08Z) BuckarooBanzai: Happy cake day, Krock :) Krock: <3 thanks Copenhagen_Bram3: Has anyone played the murder mod? Copenhagen_Bram3: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24884&p=381734#p381734 Elon_Sat0shi: Is it like Among Us, or does everyone know who the murderer is? Elon_Sat0shi: Among Us/Werewolf/Mafia Bombo: as admin i set (ingame) '/set -n enable_tnt true' but i can't lay down tnt Bombo: do i have to restart the server? Bombo: or is there reload? sfan5: yeah you might have to restart Bombo: hmmm hm still can't drop it Bombo: i added enable_tnt = true to world/minecraft.conf Bombo: i'm playing in creative mode Bombo: ok i crafted a tnt block, that did explode ;) Krock: > minecraft.com Krock: *.conf Krock: that won't work my friend Bombo: so just tnt sticks wont explode rubenwardy: *minetest rubenwardy: oof Krock: world/*.conf doesn't exist anyway Bombo: i accidentally craft Bombo: what i meant was games/minetest_game/minetest.conf Bombo: i is dum sorree ;) DS-minetest: >/set -n enable_tnt true' DS-minetest: why the -n? Krock: because it doesn't work without Krock: probably a bug Bombo: -n for new DS-minetest: oh, didn't know the -n thing, sorry DS-minetest: Bombo: the configuration file is games/../minetest.conf DS-minetest: Krock: happy forum-join day! :) Bombo: DS-minetest: yes sorry DS-minetest: Bombo: no need to apologize Bombo: ok so /set doesn't work to set things for the conf Bombo: wasn't enough to enable tnt, but when i put it in the conf it works Bombo: minetest needs a reload function so you don't need to restart if you change some setting *featurerequest* ;) DS-minetest: that would require mods using this reload function DS-minetest: and there are some things that you can not do after mod loading time, ie. change node definitions Bombo: hm Emerald2: Whoops, sorry for all that bouncing. Not sure what that was about. rubenwardy: caffeine? Elon_Sat0shi: Has anyone played the murder mod? Is it like Mafia/Werewolf/Among Us, or do the players know who the murderer is? Krock: ha ha rubenwardy. funny Krock: !mod murder MinetestBot: Krock: Murder mini-game [murder] by Giov4 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24884 Krock: never played that Andrey01: hello, is there a function that would convert string to table in Minetest API? sfan5: depends on how that string looks Andrey01: minetest.deserialize is not certainly appropriate I think Andrey01: it looks the same as a converted table would look like, this is not serialized string sfan5: "converted" how? Andrey01: if I would convert it to that table rubenwardy: how is it serialised? Bombo: i'm trying https://content.minetest.net/packages/bell07/skinsdb/ right now, but i get an error when starting the server: '.minetest/games/minetest_game/mods/skindb/init.lua:27: attempt to call field 'request_http_api' (a nil value)' 11J​onathon: you need to added it to trusted mods Bombo: README.md says 'pip3 install requests' which i did 11J​onathon: for getting skins from its website sfan5: uh Bombo: how would i do that? sfan5: request_http_api is supposed to exist so something must be wrong Bombo: i did python3 update_skins.py it downloaded skins Bombo: already rubenwardy: are you using dragonfire? I believe that removes request_http_api in favour of just get_http_api Bombo: whats dragonfire? Bombo: i'm on linux btw sfan5: which version of minetest do you have Bombo: Minetest 5.4.0-dev-4298d95b1 (Linux) 11J​onathon: just tested, seems its fine without it being in trusted actually Bombo: maybe something with my python3 installation? sfan5: i'm sure that's unrelated Bombo: Jonathon: what version do you use? sfan5: rubenwardy: you didn't happen to touch request_http_api in any of your PRs, did you? 11J​onathon: checked with 5.0.1 and 5.3.0, just fresh on ocntentdb 11J​onathon: *contentdb rubenwardy: testing now, again rubenwardy: I touched it for the mainmenu, but I had tests for it rubenwardy: the tests still exist, Minetest will crash if minetest.get_http_api exists rubenwardy: tested, request exists, get doesnt Andrey01: rubenwardy, I said the table is not actually serialized into the string, it is just presented as a string rubenwardy: then how can you possibly convert it as a string? rubenwardy: makes literally no sense rubenwardy: what do you actually want to do? Andrey01: I am getting an input tables with dofile() call from a console, as they are represented as strings they are needed to be converted to real tables Andrey01: how could I do it? rubenwardy: what format is the string? rubenwardy: you can't just convert a string to a table, there needs to be an understandable format DS-minetest: they left rubenwardy: I'm aware, they'll probably check the logs DS-minetest: ah, mhm Bombo: 00:18 tested, request exists, get doesnt <- so... git pull? Andrey01: Hmm, strings can be of different format? I really don't know what that is meant DS-minetest: Andrey01: think of a list separated with commas and a list separated with semicolons. => two different formats, but both are strings: 1,2,3 1;2;3 DS-minetest: "1,2,3" "1;2;3" * Andrey01: Ah Andrey01: That is, does the format in this context mean which symbols table elements are separated by? DS-minetest: not only Andrey01: Anyway I considered it would look like so in the string, e.g: "{a=1, b=2, c=3}" DS-minetest: Andrey01: if you use .deserialize, you can write the table as you would when programming in lua (eg. {1, a=2, ["}"]=3}). but if you are getting the string from an untrustful source, this will be dangerous DS-minetest: ah, this is not fully correct DS-minetest: first concat "return " in front of the table string DS-minetest: but users will eg. be able to enter "while true do end" or do even more harmful stuff DS-minetest: see also https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/41a6136f774a30364b6d3fd2042c9dbeb34f2109/builtin/common/serialize.lua#L184 Andrey01: In my case I think I need not .deserialize, because it returns a table that was serialized in other format unlikely from I am talking about DS-minetest: I'm having difficulties understanding you. DS-minetest: anyway, minetest.deserialize("return ".."{a=1, b=2, c=3}") will return a table {a=1, b=2, c=3} DS-minetest: afaik MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Deprecate get_player_velocity and add_player_velocity (#10173) 133250b37 https://git.io/JU5TN (152020-10-03T23:33:45Z) 13G​enshin: is there a reason why version key for get_player_information() is disabled on release clients? 13G​enshin: why not just keep it enabled? Guest72: Hello tapuz: Is it possible to install Minetest server 5.x on Ubuntu 18.04? I did it w/ debian-backports (doesn't work on ubuntu) Elouin: tapuz: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable sfan5: @G​enshin the reason is that we don't want mods go and parse the version numbers to determine if a feature works or doesn't sfan5: because when someone forks MT and resets those version numbers all the detection goes out the window 10J​ordach: so what’s the problem with exposing the Project name to servers 10J​ordach: So the idiots with the DF are rekt on join 10J​ordach: sfan5, ^ sfan5: would be cool I guess but it'd be precisely 4.9 minutes until that is patched by the clients author 10J​ordach: We both know the DF client authors userbase have little to no intelligence of how it works behind the scenes 10J​ordach: All I need is a PDB and CE rubenwardy: Dwarf Fortress? sfan5: a what and a what? 10J​ordach: 🐉 10J​ordach: Should be a hint if utf8 behaves thomas-minetestb: hello, we have big problems on our server: some players won't respawn. Has anyone an idea about the reasons and how to fix it? heavygale: what happensinstead? thomas-minetestb: the player is laing on the floor like dead thomas-minetestb: a kick doesnt help thomas-minetestb: it only happens to some players thomas-minetestb: is there a command to respawn players as server admin? Emerald2: Don't they have a respawn button? thomas-minetestb: no, and /killme doesnt help thomas-minetestb: seems like the player database is inconsistent or sth like that rubenwardy: what if they log out and in? rubenwardy: what Minetest versions? Server and client thomas-minetestb: @rubenwardy: that doesnt help rubenwardy: oh right, a kick thomas-minetestb: It's the german Corona Bildungs-Server in the server list. rubenwardy: !server Corona Bil MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Der Corona Bildungs-Server | 193.31.25.235:30003 | Clients: 2/120, 2/14 | Version: 5.2.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 24ms thomas-minetestb: compiled it on the server in March rubenwardy: hmm, I remember player damage changes around then rubenwardy: it might be worth updating the server to 5.3.0 rubenwardy: or downgrading to 5.2.0 heavygale: no problem - i can respawn thomas-minetestb: strange behavior. heavygale: just tried it out thomas-minetestb: yes, it only happens to some players. Strange. thomas-minetestb: for example player Ju thomas-minetestb: wait, I can reset him an login as Ju heavygale: is the spawn priv new? may he's missing it thomas-minetestb: now come to Ju thomas-minetestb: is there a direct respawn command? thomas-minetestb: Ju has spawn privilege thomas-minetestb: @heavygale, thanx for Your help, let's see if it works 13G​enshin: sfan5, with all due respect I still fail to see a problem with keeping version key enabled for release clients. I honestly find it to be a very useful key for certain things. But anyways If it can't be done then that's understandable, priorities comes first afterall. sfan5: what are "certain things" here? anti-cheat? 13G​enshin: Besides anti-cheat, backwards compat stuff sfan5: ideally there wouldn't be any need to use the engine version for compatibiltiy detection, we're aware of that 10J​ordach: There should be 10J​ordach: Forks are not always compatible even if they bear the Minetest name 10J​ordach: I don’t wish to support outdated clients because they either use a cheat client or have crap mobile devices 13G​enshin: With version check, you could make a feature that grants a knockback substitute to those that dont have version 5.3.0 or higher Its just an example 13G​enshin: or like jordach said, limit client versions access to a server rubenwardy: knockback was added in 5.1 though? rubenwardy: is there a bug fixed with it? 13G​enshin: Was it? I dont recall seeing a knockback property though on 5.1.0-dev rubenwardy: protocol_versions are intended for doing things like this. The protocol version just wasn't bumped between 5.2 and 5.3 rubenwardy: yeah, I'm fairly sure knockback was in 5.1 13G​enshin: Strange, is it associated with lua entity properties? Or is it a separate thing? rubenwardy: I'm confussled 10J​ordach: https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog sfan5: lua entities have no knockback, but you could always use move_to for them sfan5: or add_velocity rubenwardy: player knockback was added in 5.1.0 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/291e7730cf24ba5081f10b5ddbf2494951333827 sfan5: I don’t wish to support outdated clients because they either use a cheat client or have crap mobile devices sfan5: we have strict_protocol_version_checking for that 10J​ordach: Then why is it just documented in conf rubenwardy: so `if mientest.get_player_information(name).protocol_version >= 38 then -- can use knockback end` 13G​enshin: Ah i see, its a tool capability property rubenwardy: minus typo sfan5: do you think it should be documented in the wiki too? rubenwardy: there's no tool capability property - it just happens on punch rubenwardy: the register on punch callback calls add_player_velocity to do knockback 10J​ordach: > do you think it should be documented in the wiki too? Bruh moment 13G​enshin: ^ 10J​ordach: The fact that people don’t want to read a 4000 line conf document proves this already sfan5: so do you think it should be in the wiki or not? 10J​ordach: Obviously 13G​enshin: Anyway It's okay if it can't be done, i have no problem with sticking to debug clients 10J​ordach: It allows for translated versions should someone spend the time and write one rubenwardy: For that particular case, why not protocol version? 13G​enshin: Because i actually want to remain to see/use this information, protocol version just rejects older clients. Which is not part of my goal as a server owner rubenwardy: Protocol version tells you the protocol version of each client rubenwardy: Which can be mapped to the minetest version, except for 5.2 and 5.3 10J​ordach: And that’s what we don’t want 10J​ordach: Server operators don’t want to deal with your core dev mistakes ever rubenwardy: Protocol versions really aren't that bad, they're much easier to compare than versions 10J​ordach: Canned bullshit rubenwardy: They should be documented more in lua API, and updated more consistently 10J​ordach: Bruh 10J​ordach: Core devs being consistent 10J​ordach: What a load of shit sfan5: so how is "5.1.0", "5.2.0" better than 38, 39? 10J​ordach: >no backporting of anti cheat to build 5.3.1 rubenwardy: You could even have a helper function to compare string versions with protocol versions, or get protocol versions from string versions rubenwardy: Although, this would only work with versions the current version knows about 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/761631974674268180/url6.jpg rubenwardy: There's a backport branch for 5.3.1 with some anticheat fixes 10J​ordach: >ignoring the fact lots of servers are having dragon fire problems rubenwardy: The reason that protocol versions should be used instead of string versions is because minetest is open source - forks may change the version number to suit their own needs. Protocol numbers is the versioning that is independent from marketing rubenwardy: Ah, that's what df is sfan5: Jordach can you actually answer my question instead of distracting with other things? rubenwardy: I've been meaning to try that 10J​ordach: The conf example is horseshit and needs to be replaced with a tiny bite sized wiki sfan5: okay who will do the work? 10J​ordach: Reflex 10J​ordach: Regex sfan5: the example config is generated from settingtypes.txt so you could probably just make a wiki out of that sfan5: or a HTML page rubenwardy: I can create you a forum account if you need one sfan5: I think you meant wiki 10J​ordach: Even a markdown document with hyperlinks to each part would be better rubenwardy: Oops yea Calinou: comparing a version can be easy if you convert the version identifer to a comparison-friendly form Calinou: 5.3.0 -> 503000 Calinou: (allows each version number to go up to 99, which is good enough for our needs) Calinou: you could use an hexadecimal form too Calinou: but again, I think 99 is enough :) Calinou: actually, 5.3.0 would be (0)50300 03B​enrob0329: Its funny, I've recently found some Wikis that usr Git and Markdown as their backend... FrostRanger[m]: My server is not showing up in the serverlist even though it has in the past and I have not messed with any settings recently andrew: ooo fIuxflux is in here MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: (se)SerializeString: Include max length in the name 13947466a https://git.io/JUSfW (152020-10-01T07:52:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up serialization 13ca5c2db https://git.io/JUSfl (152020-10-01T07:52:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Settings: Remove unused functions 1379414aa https://git.io/JUSf8 (152020-10-01T07:52:59Z) andrew: Hi guys... any luck, over on ##BlockySurvival we're having weird problems... andrew: ahh crap c luk3yx: The BlockySurvival issue is fixed, it was a problem with moremesecons (maybe I should make a PR) andrew: Hi guys, newb question: How do I get minetest server 5.x running on debian 10 buster? sfan5: you can install minetestserver 5.3.0 from buster-backports andrew: uh, imm new to debian, how? andrew: i mean, never used debian in like a few years sfan5: https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ andrew: let me check /etc/apt andrew: ok andrew: thx swift110: hey all sfan5: hi pevernow: I'm going to build a content DB mirror in China rubenwardy: good luck rubenwardy: easiest way would be to use nginx rubenwardy: use a proxy and a proxy cache rubenwardy: make the uploads have a super high timeout, and cache to disk rubenwardy: you can even preload the cache using a script rubenwardy: just make sure to proxy redirect rewrite to not bypass the cache pevernow: That 's a good ideaBut does contentdb provide synchronization scheme with other contentdb? rubenwardy: there's only one contentdb rubenwardy: uploads are guaranteed to be uniquely named rubenwardy: the API can be cached short-term rubenwardy: ContentDB does not provide a facility to download everything rubenwardy: you'll be ratelimited if you try to do that pevernow: I think I'll have to try nginx proxy first. pevernow: Thanks for your help 10K​ajūto: Hey 10H​exBubble: Hey, Do you need anyhelp? dievri: Hello. Is settings from mod.conf already accessible after mod loaded, or I should manually load lite mod_settings = Settings("mod.conf") and after that just user mod_settings? rubenwardy: yes, you'll need to use Settings() rubenwardy: make sure to include get_modpath dievri: rubenwardy, thanks! 04o​neplustwo: why is it you can float on air if you crouch on a block then break that block and continue holding shift? sfan5: you can't 04o​neplustwo: you can sfan5: I don't know about your settings or client source but I just opened a minetest game world and what your describe wasn't possible 04o​neplustwo: you literally hold shift, and break the block underneath you 11J​onathon: what game? sfan5: I literally hold shift and break the node undearneath me, consequently I fall down specing: it's possible, but you have to be still partially standing on the neighboring block rubenwardy: what Minetest version? This used to happen in 0.4 04o​neplustwo: 5.3 jas_: specing: indeed you are correct specing: Oh, I've always wondered... why the strange numbers for world limits? specing: why 30912 or so, and not 2**15? 12W​arr1024: Probably safety margin 12W​arr1024: The closer you get to the actual limit, the more risk there is of being able to try to see into it, or having a really fast entity sort of "quantum tunnel" into that space, and it could cause weird bugs to shake out 12W​arr1024: The limit is 31000 in all directions, but I think the way it works a mapblock (or even mapchunk) needs to be within that limit to get generated. 12W​arr1024: Mapchunk alignment is ... weird. 12W​arr1024: I tried to make a mod to calculate what the ACTUAL map generation limits would be given the configuration, ran into all kinds of weird cases with very small limits, and ended up giving up and leaving it broken for now. specing: so, why is the limit 31000 and not 32768 specing: it's a large gap specing: also, why is the limit 31000 and not 2**31? 12W​arr1024: large gap is because they wanted a large safety margin 12W​arr1024: 31k instead of 2G because that's the size of the integers they used for node coords 12W​arr1024: probably due to either irrlicht internal limitations or concerns about storage space 12W​arr1024: either way, there has been a lot of talk about raising the limits but nobody is actually doing the work necessary 12W​arr1024: which, btw, is theorized to be quite a lot. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add icons for invisible nodes (#2718) 136605724 https://git.io/JUDQN (152020-09-30T15:41:04Z) specing: About storage: how much of the storage is consumed by chunks that were explored once and then noone returned to them? specing: could probably save a lot of chunks that were unvisited for months were just pruned away specing: could probably save a lot of space by removing* chunks that were unvisited for months were just pruned away specing: ugh that sentence specing: let's try again specing: could probably save a lot of space by removing chunks that were unvisited for months 12W​arr1024: I actually have a mod that collects per-mapblock statistics, including stuff like how many times players have dug/placed nodes in them. The original idea was to be able to prune such mapblocks. I just never got around to doing the work on the pruning part. specing: W​arr1024 can you share any interesting insights? 12W​arr1024: The main insight I've gained from it is the fact that I apparently often end up gathering a lot of data that I never make the time to analyze. specing: :( 12W​arr1024: https://gitlab.com/sztest/szutilpack/-/tree/master/szutil_usagesurvey if you're interested. It's also on CDB as part of szutilpack. dievri: Hello. in mod.conf I have very long string in format key=value,value,value,value,value,value ..... an so on. How can I spread this on a multiple lines? dievri: btw, there is also a Discord channel of minetest? 10J​ordach: https://discord.gg/6W84ytH 11d​ievri: thanks! Krock: dievri: setting = """ Krock: multi Krock: line setting Krock: """ Krock: and that's documented in lua_api.txt Krock: though this will add newlines at the end of each line, hence ensure that it works properly in your case rubenwardy: depends etc ignores whitespace, and just looks for commas rubenwardy: I think that's the only comma-seperated field? Krock: mapgen flags,"initial_give_items": "Am I a joke to you?" Krock: also mod security (overall and HTTP-API) rubenwardy: ahh, I was thinking of mod.conf rubenwardy: well, they did say mod.conf Krock: oh right Krock: that part was already off-screen clavi: should I change "max_packets_per_iteration" on a server, or is 1024 fine? sfan5: how many players? sfan5: did you get relevant warning(s) in your log? clavi: 5 players at most, but perhaps on crappy connections clavi: had a pathological case rn with an american player on bad wifi (server is in germany) clavi: they had "WARNING[ConnectionSend]: con(16/4) Packet quota used up for peer_id=1, was 1024 pkts" in their logs sfan5: you don't need to increase it then sfan5: especially not if that message pops up in the *clients* log clavi: okay clavi: the server itself has a fast connection, but I can't do anything about players far away on not-so-great internet clavi: could I increase it for a LAN-only server though? and to what value? clavi: ethernet lan that is, with at least 1 gbps sfan5: you can theoretically increase it to a very large value in a LAN but I'm pretty sure part of the reason for the limit is also to not overwhelm clients sfan5: (very large = 10000 or 65335 if you want, doubt it makes a difference at that point) est31: emphasis on LAN here, wifi is different est31: it'd just try to retransmit the same huge packet over and over est31: wait it's numbers of packets est31: not packet sizes 13G​enshin: :trollface: riff-IRC: root riff-IRC: microsoftsucks1985^U 13G​enshin: The next thing microsoft would do is buy your account for 7.5 billion Wuzzy: yeah, that's the joke. once you have sent anything over teh Intarwebz, you cannot assume that you can "delete" it afterwards. someone might have copied it already Genshin: Discord still has the data despite a user deleting it Wuzzy: hehe Genshin: nothing actually get's deleted Wuzzy: of course Wuzzy: deletion is a lie ^^ riff-IRC: visibletouser = false 11J​onathon: the most annoying deletions is forum deletions tho 11G​reenXenith: I wish that were fully the case Wuzzy: hey, riff-IRC disappeared, where did they go??? Wuzzy: i cant see them anymore... strange riff-IRC: lol Genshin: He was bought by MS for making a anti MS joke Wuzzy: wait, that was a joke? Doesn't Microsoft, like, objectively suck? Genshin: they do, lol Genshin: They like own $1 Trillion, they can buy your house if they wanted to 11G​reenXenith: they can buy your city if they wanted to riff-IRC: yeah, M$ 100% SUUUUUUUCKS riff-IRC: just look at what they're doing to Canonical riff-IRC: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. riff-IRC: They're currently in Phase III - Extinguish: Eliminate or nullify the competitive threat. 13G​enshin: ONe day, they might buy Sony for 7.5 billion. who knows Wuzzy: its always scary when big fish eat eat other 13G​enshin: imagine Wuzzy: eat each other* Wuzzy: its never good when so much power is concentrated on just one entity alone riff-IRC: nope riff-IRC: it's LONG past time for some industry-rattling monopoly breakups. riff-IRC: Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Cloudflare, just to name a few. Wuzzy: but this begs the question: who will be the new owners of the spliters of the corporation you have split up? riff-IRC: hopefully not the same people holding the stocks 09s​rinivas: but those who currently hold the stocks did put in money into them, do they not deserve the fruits of their actions? 09s​rinivas: for example, look at AT&T riff-IRC: think I might've selected the wrong term riff-IRC: ah, another one - AT&T 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760292757205549146/microsoft-buys-valve-world-war-iii.jpg 09s​rinivas: they were broken up into what 7 baby bells, and 1 log distance one correct? Wuzzy: the thing is, even if you break up the huge companies (which, dont get me wrong, is a BIG change that will be HARD to do politically), who's to tell the new owners won't be as shitty as the previous ones riff-IRC: the people running the company that gets split should be barred from attempting to run the split entities as the same large company 09s​rinivas: thats what happened with AT&T too lol 09s​rinivas: but, over the years, they slowly got back to gether Wuzzy: even if all the new owners are completely independent of the old company ... what stops them from becoming (or already being) shitty as well? 09s​rinivas: now, you have two of the 7 or 8 of the baby bells, AT&T and verizon 09s​rinivas: nothing erlehmann: remember, IRC knows no pings at all. erlehmann: what Wuzzy: its true Wuzzy: it's the client that does it. its all just convention erlehmann: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2812#section-3.7.2 erlehmann: The PING command is used to test the presence of an active client or erlehmann: server at the other end of the connection. Wuzzy: emmm, no thats not what i meant Wuzzy: "ping" as in "writing the name of the other user in chat and the client of the other user beeps because of that", not as in "PING command" erlehmann: > IRC knows no pings erlehmann: > PING erlehmann: ??? erlehmann: highlight Wuzzy: colloquial usage, sorry Wuzzy: me dumb ugga ugga Wuzzy: probably got confused by Discord nerds haha 12W​arr1024: Discord doesn't even call them pings either. The official terminology appears to be Mentions. Wuzzy: someone just said "ping" and then it stuck in my head lol Genshin: pong Wuzzy: brainfart of the highest order Wuzzy: probably because a beep sounds like "ping" haha 12W​arr1024: I mean, discord USERS routinely call them pings 12W​arr1024: it's just not something Discord really encourages officially Wuzzy: colloquial usage, as i said 13G​enshin: Wuzzy, at least you don't have to deal with this 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760294721855029308/tenor.gif Wuzzy: 😀 13G​enshin: Let's just say there's ups and downs for everything made by humanity 13G​enshin: also we are all nerds here btw Li0n: I've seen discord servers where they had a bot that allowed for custom keywords for pings Li0n: They also had a bot to favourite messages and if enough people favourite it it gets posted in another channel 04L​one_Wolf: In this discord if enough people react with a pin emoji then the message will be pinned ircSparky: !seen paramat MinetestBot: ircSparky: paramat was last seen at 2019-12-20 22:22:09 UTC on #minetest luk3yx: !seen texmex MinetestBot: luk3yx: texmex was last seen at 2020-08-07 10:51:13 UTC on #minetest-hub pevernow: I'm going to set up a content DB image station in ChinaBecause the download speed of China to foreign countries is very lowHow to make my contentdb and“ content.minetest.net ”What about synchronization? 10K​ajūto: Hey bootlegbilly: Ayy bingfengfsx: 我回来啦～ 13G​enshin: こんにちは 13G​enshin: 中国語の話し方がわかりません 13G​enshin: ごめんなさい 08f​reshreplicant: If you don't understand Chinese, explaining that in Japanese is a pretty funny way to go about it. 😆 08f​reshreplicant: I recognise some of the characters, but god knows if the meaning is even adjacent to the Japanese usage. specing: yesterday I had some experience with Technic and my god are those formspecs ugly! specing: the machine textures are ugly as well jas_: maybe we should redo them jas_: i'm so sorry https://i.imgur.com/8k7qYkg.gif est31: I'm in that edit gif and I don't like it Cuco: . Cuco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=youtu.be MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Adriankhl -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve MSVC cmake and update vcpkg instruction (#10407) 13995d405 https://git.io/JUMIq (152020-09-29T17:39:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Update wording of game descriptions in installer (#10441) 13d3e327a https://git.io/JUMIm (152020-09-29T17:39:36Z) Sires: Hello, could someone tell me where in the minetest folder(with mods, worlds etc..) on Windows? sfan5: one folder higher than the minetest.exe file Sires: oh nvm I thought there was a non portable version Sires: thx sfan5: there is but it's very unlikely that you are using it 04L​one_Wolf: I built an installer yesterday MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve layout of main menu 'local' tab (#10366) 13a69bc67 https://git.io/JUM26 (152020-09-29T22:37:03Z) 11G​reenXenith: Hah, imagine Discord being a single entity with multiple personalites. 11G​reenXenith: That would be a weird person 12W​arr1024: There are discords with over 10000 people in them. I don't think a person could fit that many personalities. I mean, you'd need to have a governing council that publishes meeting minutes to handle that many personalities... LPKI_Ramen: Hello, please give me link to official Minetest discord server) sfan5: there's no official one 12W​arr1024: The one that's bridged here is probably the Least Unofficial one. sfan5: ..which would be https://discord.gg/6W84ytH LPKI_Ramen: thank you) 12W​arr1024: I didn't know if there was a policy about posting the link in IRC. LPKI_Ramen: Lol server name just Minetest Unofficial)) 13G​enshin: Lol bootlegbilly: Hi everyone 13G​enshin: Hello bootlegbilly: How is everyone? 13G​enshin: disappointed with things on my end, but nonetheless i'm doing fine 10J​ordach: me_irl bootlegbilly: Jaja, life's that way bootlegbilly: Oh that's interesting, so the Discord and the IRC server are the same bootlegbilly: That's very clever 13G​enshin: > me_irl me_irl and me_on_the_net 13G​enshin: Yes, this irc bot can get chat from the unofficial minetest discord server 13G​enshin: its a webhook 11J​onathon: altho there is other channels here not connected to irc 13G​enshin: So irc won't have to deal with some shenanigains from here 11J​onathon: basically 13G​enshin: or vice versa 13G​enshin: bootlegbilly, this is how it looks like on our end if you're curious to know 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760194504128462868/Screenshot_20200928-134048_Discord.jpg bootlegbilly: Oh neat Krock: Genshin: your battery is low. consider charging it soon again bootlegbilly: Do any of you know anything about what's up with mineclone2? bootlegbilly: I can't seem to access the git repo Krock: the whole git server is down Krock: mesehub, that's it 13G​enshin: Krock: yep, going to charge this, lol 13G​enshin: Im on both PC and mobile cause testing reasons Krock: bootlegbilly: perhaps here are a few new commits: http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/src/MineClone2.git/ (posted yesterday) - but let's see what Wuzzy will do bootlegbilly: What is mesehub? Krock: whether to wait or move to another service Krock: https://git.minetest.land/ 13G​enshin: Github but for minetest mods only Krock: used to be a Gitea server, but it's down without any further information in the forums bootlegbilly: Oh huh bootlegbilly: Why not move to Github? 13G​enshin: Also mineclone 2, pull requests are disabled 13G​enshin: :trollface: Krock: IIRC it was created after MS bought GitHub, as an alternative for more librety Krock: but apparently on cost of reliability 10J​ordach: Well the liberties of GH never changed tho Krock: it's the mindset that changed, though. 10J​ordach: I mean Actions is a cool use of Azure 13G​enshin: mfw MS turned github into a linked in but for programmers bootlegbilly: Eh honestly I don't mind the change much bootlegbilly: I'm happy that private repos are free now for example bootlegbilly: But yea MS owning everything is kind of a bummer 10J​ordach: Honestly I treat GH as a tool not a person thats going to ruin everything :^) 13G​enshin: Money is power m8 bootlegbilly: Wdym Genshin 13G​enshin: MS: "You can buy everything if you have the money for it" *Buys Github and Bethesda" bootlegbilly: Oh they bought Bethesda too? 13G​enshin: Yep Krock: soon Fallout integration in GitHub bootlegbilly: Also Krock is there any reason that the git server went down? bootlegbilly: Money reasons? Krock: login with gamer account bootlegbilly: There are alternatives at leas bootlegbilly: Like Gitlab Krock: bootlegbilly: no one knows bootlegbilly: But servers are expensive :( 13G​enshin: Fallout will become xbox/windows exclusive bootlegbilly: So what are they planning on doing atm Krock bootlegbilly: I kinda wanted to help work on development a lil Krock: bootlegbilly: could you please consider reading my messages? Krock: > but let's see what Wuzzy will do {..} Krock> whether to wait or move to another service bootlegbilly: I read that they were considering changing or not bootlegbilly: But waiting for what exactly Krock: nothing happened yet Krock: well, whether the servers will be up soon again, or whether it's a persistent state bootlegbilly: Huh alright bootlegbilly: Is there any contact info about the people who own the servers? Krock: MineCLone2 was actively maintained here previously: https://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/ so if that server stays down, we might expect commits there again 11J​onathon: wuzzy already reached out 13G​enshin: Depends if they leave contact info Krock: good to hear. nothing more than that happened, I guess? 11J​onathon: or thats what he said via the forums 11J​onathon: i didn't see anything today 13G​enshin: Krock, also I just replied and added further details on the occurence. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10438 13G​enshin: Probably is a issue with 5.0.1 that im not aware of 11J​onathon: > I kinda wanted to help work on development a lil seems best bet is to fork mineclone2 and do your own thing given the past of no prs Krock: G​enshin: so what about the digging animation of players? does that work? erlehmann: in case anyone likes the MNT reform, a friend made a mod to be able to make the computer in minetest! https://github.com/Li0nsDickachu/minetest-mod-mntreform Krock: also: node placement and key updates might run async 13G​enshin: Krock 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760198821338021898/Screenshot_20200928-135818_Minetest.jpg 13G​enshin: Animation is working Krock: I mean those from mobile players Krock: not watching your own model Krock: because that's handled locally bootlegbilly: erlehmann told me to use https://github.com/kay27/MineClone2 13G​enshin: Hmm 13G​enshin: Going to see it on my point of view while staring at mobile_user on PC Krock: Genshin: a globalstep callback would also be more accurate to find out whether something changed. node placement might be too tightly timed 13G​enshin: So could it be a delay thing? erlehmann: bootlegbilly, please don't tell ppl i tell them to use microsoft github :P erlehmann: bootlegbilly, because MS github is shit (disclaimer: they hellbanned me once for no reason, took it back after i noticed and i never used github again for my projects) 13G​enshin: Krock. They seem to not be animating on my screen over on PC Krock: Genshin: I'd bet on that Krock: hmm Krock: the last significant change into this direction was #7924 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7924 -- Allow binding dig, place actions to keys; remove LMB/RMB hardcoding by ClobberXD Krock: i.e. client version dependant bootlegbilly: Holy shit erlehmann, did they say why? bootlegbilly: Iǘe honestly never had issues bootlegbilly: I've* erlehmann: bootlegbilly, no of course not, they only told me they would flag my account so automated processes did not hellban it again erlehmann: but it was bad because i was working on some customer project erlehmann: and the customer could suddenly not see any of my stuff erlehmann: so i use my own server now Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7924/files#diff-b5b39c3a29359759ac6f0293dc37a453R277 Krock: what the hell Krock: this should be joystick.getWasKeyDown(KeyType::MOUSE_L) 13G​enshin: @wsor was mobile_user animation on your end? 10J​ordach: Commit revert in 10, 9, ... 13G​enshin: lmao 13G​enshin: so, confirmed bug yet? 11J​onathon: uh, idk, I only saw you open and shut a door, sorry 11J​onathon: i can rejoin and stream here 13G​enshin: but did you seen walk animations, or punching animations? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/game.cpp#L2492-L2493 though this should work just fine Krock: the function I linked previously is not used that often erlehmann: bootlegbilly Krock i asked wuzzy to upload all their stuff to the old repo and they just did https://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/ Krock: hence just a minor bug which is yet undiscovered 11J​onathon: i saw your arm move, so punch animation Krock: erlehmann: cool Krock: erlehmann: I had that as my git remote until a few months ago when I learned that it's outdated for years :3 erlehmann: Krock, well now it's back erlehmann: back again erlehmann: wuzzy's back erlehmann: tell a friend 13G​enshin: try rejoininig and stream it 13G​enshin: @wsor erlehmann: guess who's back guess who's back guess who's back erlehmann: NA NANA NANANANANA 11J​onathon: good grief 11J​onathon: and ok geshen 11J​onathon: and ok geshen 11J​onathon: @/g/ in the house 13G​enshin: okay 13G​enshin: type /spawn 11J​onathon: that was 5.3.0 btw 11J​onathon: if it maters 13G​enshin: Krock, animation confirmed on 5.3.0 client. however could be like you've said. might be a delayed thing 13G​enshin: i wasn't seeing much animation on 5.1.0-dev 11J​onathon: i have 5.0.1, 5.1.1, 5.2.0 if you want to watch those as well 13G​enshin: tyr 5.0.1 13G​enshin: Krock, viewing at 5.0.1. animations were a bit broken for mobile users 13G​enshin: they get stuck at times 13G​enshin: in a single animation Krock: as long the punch animation appears it's fine Krock: animation issues is a different topic Krock: ...also one that I'd prefer to not dig into too deep 11J​onathon: anyways, you good now geshen? 13G​enshin: > ...also one that I'd prefer to not dig into too deep That's understandable 13G​enshin: yeah, im good now 11J​onathon: ok 👍 going to go tinker with inv 13G​enshin: going to try Krock's method in getting the input 13G​enshin: Still getting the same output 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760208830952636477/Screenshot_20200928-143803_Minetest.jpg 13G​enshin: Wait, pc is getting the same output, but then returns true after keeping it on hold Krock: timing issues. 13G​enshin: Trying on mobile now 13G​enshin: Since mobile can't hold, they arent having any luck 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760209803233591357/Screenshot_20200928-144142_Minetest.jpg 13G​enshin: Yep, timing issue 13G​enshin: This is the output while on PC 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760210381356007474/Screenshot_at_2020-09-28_14-44-17.png 13G​enshin: going to test this with punch bootlegbilly: Hey guys bootlegbilly: I found a wayback copy of all the issues bootlegbilly: It's annyoing and slow but I could write a scraper to save them all bootlegbilly: https://web.archive.org/web/20200822050137/https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/issues bootlegbilly: It's from august 22 of this year 13G​enshin: Krock, yep still leads to timing issues 13G​enshin: wrote down evidence https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10438 13G​enshin: hopefully there's a fix to this 13G​enshin: if not, i understand Krock: the fix is to assume that place/RMB is pressed when on_placenode is called Krock: since key presses are sent in the same packet as player movements which are non-reliable and on another channel, I don't think this will be "fixed" soon Krock: it also wouldn't work for older clients or older servers 13G​enshin: also i noticed that dragonfire client users when they are performing autoplace are also not returning LMB or RMB inputs 13G​enshin: those end up returning false Krock: you could also use the scalar product of the view "angle" and placed node to figure out whether the node is approximately within their view Krock: assuming -90° to 90° is enough to cover lag and outdated data 13G​enshin: > it also wouldn't work for older clients or older servers Krock, that's perfectly understandable 10J​ordach: Max amount of lag around the planet is 0.35s 10J​ordach: For even the most basic of broadband networks Krock: J​ordach: yes sure. if you go over satellites, that's gonna be a multiple 12W​arr1024: Detecting players not pressing RMB to place nodes doesn't sound like it's worth the trouble to implement as an anti-cheat because it seems like cheat clients would very easily just add the RMB press/release to bypass it. Placing hurdles in front of cheaters is a good thing, but not so much if dragging the hurdles onto the field takes a lot more work for you than clearing them does for them. 13G​enshin: Then i guess making detections for autoplace and autodig is out of the question due to inaccuracies 11I​hrFussel: MT even offers builtin spam right-clicking...you can set the repeat value to 0.01 12W​arr1024: It's not so much "out of the question" as "you explored the question and the answer is probably no" :-) erlehmann: > Detecting players not pressing RMB to place nodes erlehmann: wtf erlehmann: what about ppl who don't even use a mouse 12W​arr1024: i.e. I think your investigation made sense so far, it's just going further doesn't look promising now. 12W​arr1024: doesn't matter whether you use a mouse or not 12W​arr1024: you can use a trackball or a touchscreen or whatever 12W​arr1024: MT still sends those control inputs 12W​arr1024: though they may send them for extremely short time periods making it impossible to catch in practice 11I​hrFussel: It's like mobile browser...they translate touches/taps to drag/clicks 12W​arr1024: If MT ever adds keybindings for digging/placing by keyboard, those will almost certainly either get new control flags, or would be mapped to LMB/RMB anyway. 13G​enshin: > It's not so much "out of the question" as "you explored the question and the answer is probably no" :-) out of the question or no, same thing. currently pointless to make due to flaws and inaccuracies. 12W​arr1024: Best you could do is something probabilistic, i.e. looking at a player's behavior over the long run, detect if they never have RMB pressed, or look for changes in probability over time. That'd probably be more useful for something like detecting hacked accounts from changes in activity patterns, rather than anti-cheat. After all, they could just make sure to ALWAYS cheat. 13G​enshin: problem with that is that android users are currently sending RMB as false 13G​enshin: No matter how fast they are placing down a node 13G​enshin: when they are digging, LMB is returning true after holding on dig key 12W​arr1024: are they sending it as false, or is it simply not possible for you to see it as true because your code never runs during the like 1 microsecond when it's actually true? 13G​enshin: They are sending it as false 12W​arr1024: hmm, do they ever send RMB, like when not placing? 13G​enshin: Unless they are holding place key, which they can't 13G​enshin: It works perfectly for PC users, but not for mobile users 12W​arr1024: Huh, wow, there really is no way to hold RMB on mobile. That's ... bizarre 12W​arr1024: "works perfectly on PC" at what RTT? 12W​arr1024: presumably your anti-cheat mod is probably not going to be very useful for singleplayer 13G​enshin: Warr https://discord.com/channels/369122544273588224/369137254641303560/760155312996745236 12W​arr1024: yeah, I saw 12W​arr1024: and it was pretty obvious that was what you were doing from your screenshots 13G​enshin: Actually from my screenshots, i done what krock suggested, getting controls on global step 12W​arr1024: It should be possible to get the controls out of order on PC too. It will just be a heisenbug, since it will probably be quite rare, and would probably only happen under specific circumstances. The only time you'll hear about it is some users being mad that they got banned arbitrarily by anti-cheat. 13G​enshin: Which is why i scrapped those detections tbh 13G​enshin: Thanks to certain false positives due to timing problems 13G​enshin: The rest of the detections passed though 12W​arr1024: I've found the easiest way to detect cheaters is when they either brag about how they're awesome hackers because they can fly without privs, or when they ask you what your policy is on hacked clients within 5 minutes of first connecting. 13G​enshin: Made a flight detection ehich so far works, also testing this on my server 13G​enshin: Flight depends on vertical velocity scaling 13G​enshin: Also if their vertical velocity is at 0 while hovering in air 13G​enshin: regarding to automod (autoban/autokick), it has a trigger logic. Also can be enabled or disabled on minetest.conf Wuzzy: hey everyone 13G​enshin: Hi Wuzzy Wuzzy: I wonder how many of you are on Discord right now Wuzzy: I'm an IRC person haha 11G​reenXenith: How many are online, or how many are in the server? ;p Wuzzy: both 11G​reenXenith: 263 online, 1063 in the server Wuzzy: wait, that cant be right... in IRC I only see 184 online 11G​reenXenith: IRC only displays IRC users 11G​reenXenith: this is a bridge Wuzzy: yeah right Wuzzy: 263 users behind MTDiscord Wuzzy: it kind of blows my mind Wuzzy: at least Minetest does not force anybody on Discord. I am very glad about that 11G​reenXenith: Im just glad that we are unified Wuzzy: its still a bit ugly technically. IRC no longer shows the real usercount Wuzzy: are there commands to query the current discord usercount btw? 11G​reenXenith: Yeah, but it works well enough. 11G​reenXenith: There is not 11G​reenXenith: At least, I dont think so. I can implement that in my own bridge. 11G​reenXenith: We are currently using a commonly used bridge just to get things working 10J​ordach: it's not like Jordach: two of us can be 10J​ordach: in the same place Wuzzy: heh Wuzzy: did yo just kill MTDiscord just to make a point? 😆 13G​enshin: Wuzzy, someone would like an answer to this question. lol 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/760265728703725588/Screenshot_20200928-182358_Discord.jpg Wuzzy: the answer is "Wuzzy". Wuzzy: lol, the link to the question is longer than the question itself.... d'oh! 04L​one_Wolf: Coulda probably just copied the message text 04L​one_Wolf: Screenshots are nice tho 13G​enshin: Screenshots are better, too lazy to type Wuzzy: interesting discussion about chat: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=381465 Jordach: >tries to dethrone discord Jordach: riot, matrix have both failed Jordach: https://xkcd.com/927/ 04o​neplustwo: > the answer is "Wuzzy". @Wuzzy@IRC#0000 ok 11G​reenXenith: The Discord quote feature should be nuked Wuzzy: my issue with Discord is that they are tyrannically controlled by one company. they control everything, the protocol, the platform, the software. everything. Jordach: why do you think IRC is still preferred over these javascript bloat holes :^) Wuzzy: and the joke is, IRC *was* already the standard. the rest came later Wuzzy: I'm not even a huge fan of IRC tbh 04o​neplustwo: wuzzy you are big nerd Wuzzy: IRC is not really approachable for newbies. there are some weird terms that normals users should never care about. like "modes"... Wuzzy: But maybe this is just a client thing. maybe IRC just needs a new, modern client with a really nice UI. I think there's nothing like that today Jordach: because all npm users have a desire to reinvent the wheel, alongside stockholm syndrome for javascript Jordach: just ask how GNOME3 is doing with those JS bindings :^) Li0n: > But maybe this is just a client thing. maybe IRC just needs a new, modern client with a really nice UI. I think there's nothing like that today Wuzzy: wait, why are we talking about npm now? Li0n: but then they can't make money off it Jordach: nice UI = javascript / electron Wuzzy: you dont need bloat for good UI design Jordach: if it looks like win32 it isn't nice ui Li0n: how will they get rich if they can't restrict features behind a paywall Jordach: except discords only restricted feature is quite literally cosmetic :^) Wuzzy: this is what bothers me the most. people don't bitch enough about abusive companies, most people accept it, not even complaining Jordach: and you wonder why FOSS evangelism isn't working out for you Jordach: make things normal people want to use, not what you want to use 13G​enshin: discord's only paywall is cosmetics. anything else is pretty much accessible 04o​neplustwo: i like companies Jordach: i pay for the cosmetics to keep the lights on Jordach: it also stops those evil ad things 13G​enshin: it's like what, 5 bucks a month? 11G​reenXenith: what ad things Jordach: i mean implementation of ads 13G​enshin: no money = ad fest Wuzzy: Just like Minetest. 13G​enshin: cough cough Multicraft cough Wuzzy: well they have been tolerated for years now, so... 04o​neplustwo: why is everybody coughing now 13G​enshin: Sorry MoNTE48 Wuzzy: wait Multicraft is now an ad-fest? HAHAHAHAHA 13G​enshin: > why is everybody coughing now COVID-19 Jordach: Wuzzy, if it's on a iPhone or Android and the price tag is free Jordach: duck and cover 13G​enshin: gotta make money somehow right? 13G​enshin: > adds 04o​neplustwo: > COVID-19 @/g/ its a hoax, didn't you know? /s Wuzzy: most MT devs dont make a dime off MT Wuzzy: correct me if i am wrong Jordach: >ruben's patreon >paramat's paypal donation box Wuzzy: oh right, donations. but is it significant? 04o​neplustwo: i heard one of them got one billion dollars from an MIT grant Jordach: >Ruben $33/mo Wuzzy: wow, i am impressed. thats infinitely more than most other devs 🙂 Jordach: i mean i get a cosmetic flex in his CTF server Wuzzy: Jordach: well I perfectly understand why usability is important. i understand you can't force people into FOSS (lol). but what frustrates me is when abusive behavior in software is just ... kind of accepted as normal. Wuzzy: as if its just the software world is 04L​one_Wolf: A better UI won't make me like IRC more Jordach: decided by who has the time and money to properly release something that works Wuzzy: ok to be fair. that's actually true 😆 04L​one_Wolf: IRC needs a client that simplifies everything Jordach: instead of bitching in a GitHub thread about the implementation 04L​one_Wolf: And I'm not sure a client can handle all of the simplifying that would need to be done Wuzzy: I think you can abstract a way a lot of unneccessary IRC confusion Wuzzy: not everything, sadly, but a lot Wuzzy: nobody needs to learn what "modes" are 04L​one_Wolf: I had to do some googling simply to figure out how to register an account Wuzzy: irc has no real accounts Wuzzy: there's NickServ but its server-dependent 04L​one_Wolf: Yeah Wuzzy: yeah IRC really shows its age for such basic things... Wuzzy: theres inherent complexity you cant kill with shiny ui Jordach: doubt Wuzzy: you believe oyu could kill all ugly complexity with shiny ui? Wuzzy: in IRC? Jordach: i managed to make the lounge webclient look exactly like Discords default interface with CSS Jordach: not hard Jordach: time consuming Wuzzy: its not only about look-and-feel, its also about the nitty-gritty details (like NickServ) Jordach: and that turns off normies Wuzzy: TRUUUUUUU Jordach: stop thinking as a power user and dev Jordach: sounds hard but it's doable Wuzzy: i was more talking aobut abstracting away NickServ (if thats even possible) Wuzzy: or abstracing away in general Wuzzy: and yeah, i agree that thinking as a dev is a terrible way to make an UI 🙂 Wuzzy: just look at Minetest's main menu 🙁 Wuzzy: I wonder why it's stalling... it seems nobody can even agree on what the new UI should look like... hmmmmmm Wuzzy: over 100 or 200 comments 04o​neplustwo: is the teleportation glitch fixed in the newest version? 13G​enshin: I like IRC, but it's not meant for normies to use Wuzzy: what's the teleportation glitch? 13G​enshin: you mean fast/teleportation glitch when attached to entities? Wuzzy: IRC might be better if it just had one client with a nice UI Wuzzy: I personally use HexChat and I like it... but I still see that its not really for beginners lol 13G​enshin: > IRC might be better if it just had one client with a nice UI But it will never be, bwahahahah Wuzzy: what would YOU expect from a nice UI? just wondering Wuzzy: for chat ofc Wuzzy: or what annoys you the most in irc? 13G​enshin: > or what annoys you the most in irc? Honestly, nothing. lol 13G​enshin: some people wants fancy UI stuff 04o​neplustwo: ye the entity glitch 04o​neplustwo: i heard Fleckenstein proposed a fix but she got denied 13G​enshin: code must be beautifully done, also views must meet other dev's opinions. or get rejected 13G​enshin: the fate of every PR 13G​enshin: > or what annoys you the most in irc? other people also find it "complicated" to log on IRC (AKA, the normies) 11J​onathon: > or what annoys you the most in irc? no logging, and no chat while away 12W​arr1024: Haha, I mean, it's complicated to "log in" if you want to have a proper account, since the whole account concept is shoehorned in ... but you can literally just go to a webchat client, enter a name and a channel and get right in... 11J​onathon: yea you can fix those with outside things, but thats outside Genshin: o/ 12W​arr1024: wsor: it doesn't exactly have to be "outside"; it's just not really in common practice for IRC networks to provide those since they assume you'll want to bring your own anyway. 12W​arr1024: Even Discord is basically just a glorified client bundled with a rewrite of XMPP/IRC over HTTP Genshin: ^ Genshin: re-inventing the wheel 12W​arr1024: IRC is only more complicated because you're aware of the underlying service as an independent thing. If FreeNode decided to create a product (call it, say, FreeNoob) which connected to the same chatrooms but bundled a somewhat polished client, ordinary users would hardly be able to tell the difference from Discord. 11J​onathon: yeah, i guess, but "or what annoys you the most in irc?" that was what was asked 11J​onathon: so i answered Genshin: mwf you can see images without having to click on urls 12W​arr1024: IRC is also a standard more than an implementation, so that fact that it doesn't have history logging per-user is actually a convention, but not a strict requirement. It CAN be done, it just isn't done commonly... Genshin: ^This is true 12W​arr1024: I was very annoyed by IRC's completely terrible mobile support. Its model of connectivity just doesn't work for devices that are meant to be in sleep mode and unable to maintain an active network connection 99% of the time. Wuzzy: wait, so Discord is actually just a rip-off of XMPP? LOL 12W​arr1024: My workaround for this was TheLounge client. It's designed for mobile multi-device use, supports native push notifications, etc., but it's a true IRC client that I can self-host. 12W​arr1024: Discord, Slack, Mattermost, Stride, whatever ... they're all basically just spiritual remakes of XMPP, which arguably was just an overly complicated redo of AIM/ICQ, which were themselves just centralized remakes of IRC... 12W​arr1024: The decentralization of IRC is actually one of the things that almost none of the remakes/reinventions have done yet, with the exception maybe of Matrix 11G​reenXenith: Just the fact alone that AIM/ICQ came after IRC really dates it Genshin: it's just LMD re-inventing the weel kind of thing 12W​arr1024: haha, IRC was itself I think an extension of an older unix talk protocol 12W​arr1024: Matrix brings back the true decentralization of IRC. XMPP is "federated" but its chatrooms (which are an extension) still have to live on one particular host, so if that host goes down, the "netsplit" that happens just basically leaves everyone completely isolated. IRC's ability to fail only partially is a pretty cool feature. 12W​arr1024: I think Matrix is supposed to do all that stuff, but it's several orders of magnitude more complex than IRC, and even more than XMPP... Wuzzy: complex to implement or complex to use? 12W​arr1024: to implement 12W​arr1024: If you mean to use a client by "to use" 12W​arr1024: I mean, it's complex to implement a client that uses the protocol 12W​arr1024: but whether the client itself is simple to use depends almost entirely on the client 12W​arr1024: I tried out Riot.im. It seemed alright. 12W​arr1024: The fact that I couldn't run my own homeserver for Matrix because I didn't have a powerful enough server even to connect for my own personal use really felt crappy to me though. That felt like a big damper on the decentralization thing, which for Matrix was supposed to be even better than IRC. Wuzzy: huh? Wuzzy: this surprises me Wuzzy: you can't run a server even if it just for 1 user for testing??? wow riff-IRC: what are they using, java? Genshin: <@737608004761026642> regarding to the glitch, it's still being processed. it wasn Genshin: wasn't patched yet Wuzzy: what's this long number meaning, Genshin? 12W​arr1024: Last I saw of Matrix, their "server" component only had what I guess was meant to be a "reference implementation" in Python: it demonstrated the capabilities of the protocol well, and was the "canonical" implementation but it was super inefficient. There were supposedly others but they were "unofficial" and I didn't want to get into aftermarket until I'd gotten familiar with OEM first. Genshin: It's just a ping Genshin: it's the user's ID 12W​arr1024: Wuzzy: that long number means that the IRC/Discord bridge is not doing a great job of translating usernames. Genshin: same as if i was using Wuzzy to ping you Wuzzy: What happens if I say "Warr1024"? 12W​arr1024: Discord seems to use different formats for mentions/pings and that makes bridges/bots for it a pain to maintain. Genshin: it won't ping warr 12W​arr1024: if you just say a Discord user's name bare, it gets no special detection. Discord convention is to prefix an @ sign 11G​reenXenith: Geez, why is every bridge dropping the ball on snowflake ids lately 12W​arr1024: and that depends on whether the bot supports conversion, and whether it's not buggy. Wuzzy: well, IRC "pings" are entirely client-side anyway Genshin: because they are sensitive, needs more brain power and logic 11G​reenXenith: oh wait no 11G​reenXenith: you pinged from IRC 13G​enshin: > yep 12W​arr1024: GX: Discord seems like they must have changed the ID formats, or introduced new kinds of tags or something, but they still use the old formats in certain other contexts? 11G​reenXenith: No no, the bridge is fine Wuzzy: it just a convention. users can turn off the beep if your name was said 11G​reenXenith: Genshin just doesnt know how to ping people 12W​arr1024: that's not always a bad thing :-) 11G​reenXenith: You can ping users using their snowflake ID, but you dont need to Wuzzy: is there a setting in discord that makes you beep when your name is said (without any special characters?) 12W​arr1024: I don't think Discord does stuff like custom keyword notifications or anything... Wuzzy: boo! 11G​reenXenith: That would get chaotic rather fast 12W​arr1024: I mean, it's not exactly as scriptable as people in the IRC world are used to either :-) Wuzzy: Now I have a real excuse to never use Discord 😛 11G​reenXenith: No you dont x) Genshin: all you need is to @#<4 digit number ID> 11G​reenXenith: On the Discord side, yes Wuzzy: ok my actual excuse is that I'm a FOSS zealot 11G​reenXenith: that makes more sense 12W​arr1024: In the Discord client, to ping someone, you type an @ and then use the autocompletion dropdown. 13G​enshin: ^Easy stuff 11G​reenXenith: With the IRC bridge you can just use @ and someones nick/username and it will figure it out for you Wuzzy: but can you get beeped withuot the @? 11G​reenXenith: That would defeat the purpose Genshin: @G​reenXenith, so is this correct? 13G​enshin: nope Wuzzy: i mean is there a client setting or something? 13G​enshin: XD 12W​arr1024: Yeah, I wouldn't pressure someone to switch from IRC to Discord. I run a Discord for NodeCore but I have IRC bridges for all the important channels there too. 11G​reenXenith: probably doesnt like the comma Wuzzy: OMG 11G​reenXenith: Wuzzy: The function of pings in Discord is fundamentally different from that of IRC. So no. Wuzzy: haha, the comma counts as part of the username? LOL Genshin: okay, so... hmm Genshin: @G​reenXenith 11G​reenXenith: Well damn 13G​enshin: Hahah 12W​arr1024: I'm actually on both IRC and Discord, but I stay out of the IRC channels I'm already on Discord for because I don't wanna keep pinging myself :-D Wuzzy: What about this?: @GreenZenith: I wrote a colon. Genshin: Let's try this just for giggles 11G​reenXenith: The bridge has a feature where it adds a special character to usernames so it wont ping you on the IRC side Genshin: @GreenXenith#3232 13G​enshin: there we go 11G​reenXenith: snowflake id? 13G​enshin: GreenXenith #3232 12W​arr1024: Discord pings are actually basically a form of internal markup within the message body, while IRC pings are searching for like /\b${myusername}\b/i in the plaintext. ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3232 -- Fix vrange min/max adjusting when min exceeds max by kilbith 11G​reenXenith: oh, full id works Wuzzy: remember, IRC knows no pings at all. it's just a client side thing that just most IRC clients happen to implement. its not standardized tho Genshin: just testing the bot, you can thank me later :P 11G​reenXenith: Huh, ok ShadowBot, thankyou for giving me something to test on MinetestBot 12W​arr1024: My IRC client annoys me by only allowing me to mute notifications or add extra ones by keyword, but doesn't let me customize this stuff per-channel. 11G​reenXenith: Haha, MinetestBot is superior. 11G​reenXenith: It doesnt link github issues if the # is part of a word 12W​arr1024: What does MinetestBot's embed stuff even look like on IRC? Do they just see the text part? 12W​arr1024: or do you just have it disable din here? 11G​reenXenith: Thers a reason I have bots disabled here 11G​reenXenith: theres* 11G​reenXenith: Embeds just dont work in plaintext 11G​reenXenith: You can write converters, but they never work well 11G​reenXenith: The only reason I left link embeds on is because those are clientside 12W​arr1024: yeah, it's just weird to think of explicitly setting up embeds. The only use of embeds I ever do is the ones that Discord automatically does when you drop specific kinds of links. 13G​enshin: nope 13G​enshin: disregard, lol didn't scrolled down 12W​arr1024: I guess, since I've had my IRC bridges longer than MTU has, maybe I'm used to thinking differently about them. 12W​arr1024: Yeah, don't forget that edits and deletions are not a thing in IRC 11G​reenXenith: Ive been using an IRC bridge on my server for like 3 years 13G​enshin: already aware 12W​arr1024: and the IRC channels tend to be logged so what you really said will still be public :-) riff-IRC: kinda like this 13G​enshin: so if someone says something stupid in this channel then deletes it, IRC will always remember 13G​enshin: which is a nice addition 11G​reenXenith: yep 11G​reenXenith: It's ElCeejo-proof jas_: call me a dick jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Cake [cake] by MrIbby - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13530 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/cake erlehmann: does anyone know what happened to git.minetest.land? Krock: rip Krock: yet nothing on the forums... Bombo: win b Bombo: whoops ;) Bombo: https://wiki.minetest.net/Player so you can't change the skin? (color) heavygale: add a skins modto the server ^^ Bombo: how? this is empty https://wiki.minetest.net/Skin Krock: !mod skin MinetestBot: Krock: Skinsdb [skinsdb] by bell07 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17899 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb Krock: https://content.minetest.net/packages/?q=skin Bombo: ok *read* erlehmann: i mirrored the last version of mineclone2 i had locally erlehmann: git clone 'http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/src/MineClone2.git' erlehmann: just if anyone is missing it Krock: also https://github.com/kay27/MineClone2/ Krock: though that's salted erlehmann: salted? erlehmann: Krock, cursed? Krock: with extra commits, or "dirty" erlehmann: the big issue is losing the issues erlehmann: well it's not like ppl said for ages that you should keep issues in the repo erlehmann: welll Krock: erlehmann: btw, interesting dating website you've got there erlehmann: Krock, are you applying? because the last person that said that went from “nice website” to “lemme send you nudes” in half a day :P erlehmann: Krock, i am actually using that website to brag about my SVG skills erlehmann: Krock, everything SVG on it has been created in emacs erlehmann: i am drawing the paths manually, so to speak Krock: must be quite tiring to do that, no? erlehmann: Krock, have you seen the reptiles yet? erlehmann: no it is actually nicer to do it than using inkscape erlehmann: because i do animations erlehmann: and the inkscape coordinate system transformations are really hostile to doing animations properly erlehmann: sometimes i want to do absolute and relative motions within a path erlehmann: to make later animation easier erlehmann: try doing that in a GUI erlehmann: the spider web for example erlehmann: if you mouseover it, a gust of wind damages it erlehmann: so the start of the strands is absolute coordinates erlehmann: for each of them erlehmann: but then it goes relative erlehmann: it's a different way to work on graphics erlehmann: but then again, i have drawn maybe 500 emoji for gnu unifont using emacs and bitmap(1) Krock: cool erlehmann: Krock, do you like the reptiles? they are under the windows PGP key thingy Krock: yes. random disappearing effect. didn't know this was possible 13G​enshin: mwf mineclone2 kinda died a bit 13G​enshin: then crafter came along 13G​enshin: and now crafter is somewhat on hold because of new game engine use 13G​enshin: eh, hopefully these games get done eventually Calinou: I tagged v1.0.4 on the `gauges'` mod but the webhook is failing to update: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Calinou/gauges/ rubenwardy: erlehmann: official version here https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/ erlehmann: rubenwardy, nope erlehmann: rubenwardy, click on the „source“ link there erlehmann: git.minetest.land is dead rubenwardy: ContentDB stores a .zip version of releases erlehmann: which does not contain the git history erlehmann: right? rubenwardy: so if you just wanted the latest version, you can get it from there rubenwardy: most people just want the latest version erlehmann: i want to make it possible for people to continue development erlehmann: the newest version 0.67.2 is older than the newest thing i had in my home folder erlehmann: i hope git.minetest.land comes back though erlehmann: there are over 800 issues lost now :( erlehmann: and some branches 11J​onathon: has wuzzy made any comment on it yet? eeerungur: the mineclone2 repo is down? sfan5: yes erlehmann: eeerungur, yes the whole of git.minetest.land vanished and wuzzy too eeerungur: :o eeerungur: hope they are ok. 13G​enshin: is there a way to verify if a player is using a mobile client? 13G​enshin: i'm working on autodig and autoplace detection, but it appears that mobile users also cannot return LBM or RBM control inputs 04o​neplustwo: ask them to make a neo jump. if they can do it they are definetely not using a mobile client ;D 13G​enshin: im not asking about that. im asking if there is a way to grab needed information to finish this detection. if not then I have to scrap it 04o​neplustwo: > i'm working on autodig and autoplace detection, but it appears that mobile users also cannot return LBM or RBM control inputs @/g/ they can get around that easily by sending fake inputs to the server 11J​onathon: > eeerungur, yes the whole of git.minetest.land vanished and wuzzy too wuzzy commented on some forum posts today eeerungur: MTDiscord: did he say why? 11J​onathon: didn't comment on mineclone of the git host going down at all 11J​onathon: *mineclone2 eeerungur: oh 11J​onathon: just checked 11J​onathon: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&p=381404#p381404 erlehmann: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25401 erlehmann: MTDiscord, what's a neo jump? 13G​enshin: > @/g/ they can get around that easily by sending fake inputs to the server thanks for giving me not helpful information. can anyone else answer my question? 13G​enshin: it's a simple yes or no question erlehmann: > Yes, Mesehub, the website on which MCL2 is hosted, is down. This is a big problem for development right now. The bugtracker is also down. I have contacted texmex, the host of Mesehub. I have not heard back from them yet. erlehmann: so wuzzy exists 11J​onathon: that is what i told you 04o​neplustwo: > it's a simple yes or no question @/g/ not worth it 04o​neplustwo: so no 13G​enshin: scrapping it then. 04o​neplustwo: > MTDiscord, what's a neo jump? @erlehmann@IRC#0000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSyFgT12P6o 10J​ordach: >reee github MS reeee 10J​ordach: >community hoster of repo goes MIA 04o​neplustwo: another has fallen 10J​ordach: who's feeling the sadness of their mistake erlehmann: the mistake was to not have the issues decentralized in the git repo dzho: ugh. it's like my left-mouse is stuck on 04o​neplustwo: two bots talking to each other: the apocalypse dzho: so it's digging continually. If I left-click, it stops until I move at all and then it just starts again dzho: I have to scroll quickly to something that doesn't do much damage so I don't trash my whole base. dzho: then I just bail. erlehmann: dzho, click the button erlehmann: that is stuck dzho: I did. dzho: > If I left-click, it stops until I move at all and then it just starts again dzho: I've gone through and used 'xinput -disable ##' to disable each input device in turn to further rule out hardware problems on each of them. dzho: (this is on a thinpad so I have a touch pad and a pointing stick with buttons, a touch screen, and I have an external logitech trackball,) dzho: this is Ubuntu 18.04 with their snap, 5.3.0 dzho: erlehmann: thanks for the suggestion, though erlehmann: dzho, ok so one thing erlehmann: dzho, if you use X11, what does xev say? erlehmann: execute xev in a terminal erlehmann: it should show exactly what X11 event is sent erlehmann: when you hover the mouse over the xev window erlehmann: dzho, tried that already? 04o​neplustwo: my favorite thing about mineclone2 is the dupe glitches dzho: erlehmann: yes dzho: oh wait, sorry. 04o​neplustwo: lol aldum: duping items by bugs, or what? 04o​neplustwo: there are so many bugs 04o​neplustwo: firstly, lets talk about the potion stands erlehmann: MTDiscord, please explaine dupe bug 04o​neplustwo: so you know sticky pistons right? 04o​neplustwo: so the idea is you put the thing you want to dupe in the potion stand 04o​neplustwo: then you push the potion stand with a piston 04o​neplustwo: and it drops the item you put in the stand 04o​neplustwo: but the item is still in the stand wsor4035: MTDiscord is a place the name of the person is in the <> erlehmann 04o​neplustwo: right dzho: erlehmann: yeah, there's nothing being sent when I just hover. The motion events show for the pointer moving into the window, and then ... it just sits on that last event 04o​neplustwo: so now you have two copies of the same item dzho: so long as I do not move the pointer, there is no further x event shown. dzho: (eventually I move it out again to kill the xev window and those motions show) erlehmann: wsor4035, as i see it, MTDiscord seems to be a multiple personality user erlehmann: wsor4035, so i see it might be considered insensitive to reply to a multiple as i would reply to a singleton erlehmann: i will use their personalities names erlehmann: dzho, weeeeird dzho: I know, right erlehmann: dzho, if you move the pointer you get more clicks or not? dzho: when the point is in the xev window and I move it I get more motion events dzho: s/point/pointer/ erlehmann: but no clicks i guess dzho: well, if I click I get ButtonPress and ButtonRelease as expected. everything "just works" normally everywhere else dzho: everywhere but in minetest dzho: for instance I can drag to highlight text in gnome-terminal, I can click to do things in a browser, etc dzho: erlehmann: thanks for trying to troubleshoot this with me, particularly for the suggestion to try xev. I'll see what sort of behavior I get on my other machine later. I'm going to drop it for now. erlehmann: dzho, hth jas_: main_menu.x.ogg doesn't respect mute_sound=true. good night dievri: Hello. Based on what minetest decides, if player is newly registered account? sfan5: probably whether get_auth returns nil jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: morefaces [morefaces] by Dogzilla131 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3959 jas_: dead mod :'( jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: King of the Hill :: Modern Warfare (CapturePoint) | ratmix.com | Clients: 0/32, 0/3 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest | Ping: 133ms Bombo: trying to compile it MinetestBot: 02[git] 04luk3yx -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove null bytes from TOCLIENT_BLOCKDATA (#10433) 1309af0c5 https://git.io/JUVcz (152020-09-26T13:31:54Z) eeerungur: static_spawnpoint < this sets the default spawn for when someone joins the server right? does it allow people to change their respawn points with beds? Bombo: does it need LevelDB and Redis and Prometheus and SpatialIndex? Bombo: the apt install line on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/stable-5 doesn't instasll these sfan5: those are optional sfan5: eeerungur: that only applies to new people or when you don't have another spawnpoint (such as a bed) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04BuckarooBanzay -> 03minetest/minetest: Enable LuaJIT on the Docker image (#10414) 139eb4516 https://git.io/JUVcD (152020-09-26T13:32:49Z) sfan5: so yes beds will still work eeerungur: sfan5: thanks for your help. :) jas_: !test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhGTFuIStPs Krock: I can only see lava that might cause slow rendering times there jas_: yes thx jas_: i didn't notice while recording 13G​enshin: What did i miss? Krock: G​enshin: hopefully me Krock: jas_: lol ;) Krock: animated nodes might perform a bit worse 13G​enshin: Hello Krock, how are things? :) jas_: so make lava not animate? Bombo: is PostgreSQL optional? it uses sqlite anyways? heavygale: https://wiki.minetest.net/Database_backends you can choose what backend you want to use for your server Krock: hi Genshin. Most is fine - just the weather isn't that motivating. Krock: Bombo: yes, optional. requires a build that supports it Krock: check that by running minetest(server) --version Krock: actually. that might not be listed in the output. hmm. Krock: ldd minetest(server) | grep sql 13G​enshin: Weather can be a drag, over here is very hot to go outside, lol Bombo: -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred! Bombo: just because PostgreSQL Redis Prometheus SpatialIndex Bombo: what are these for? Bombo: Krock: are these really optional? Krock: Bombo: disable them Krock: perhaps they're enabled by default, so use -DENABLE_POSTGRESQL=0 Krock: or whatever. the exact setting is documented in README.md Bombo: cmake .. -ENABLE_POSTGRESQL=OFF Bombo: hm Bombo: cmake looks for a file with that name sfan5: -DENABLE_POSTGRESQL=OFF not -ENABLE_POSTGRESQL=OFF sfan5: also it would've been useful to say what cmake says before the "Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!" Bombo: OH ;) Bombo: no got it the D was missing Bombo: sorry * Bombo: watching make Krock: make -j MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: replace InputDialogActivity on simple dialog window (#10034) 134298d95 https://git.io/JUw4O (152020-09-26T16:42:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EliasFleckenstein03 -> 03minetest/minetest: Patch fast/teleport vulnerability when attached to an entity (#10340) 1365c15e1 https://git.io/JUw43 (152020-09-26T16:41:44Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Tyler-2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Log server announce on updates and deletes too (#10177) 13917e357 https://git.io/JUw4s (152020-09-26T16:41:16Z) fruitsnack: hello, probably not the best place to ask about this, but what's going on with git.minetest.land? fruitsnack: MineClone2 is hosted there and it's been down for 2 days eeerungur: fruitsnack: probably unrelated, but i've just noticed my mineclone2 server has crashed. 11J​onathon: fruitsnack: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25401 11J​onathon: also this reddit post talks about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/izze13/is_mineclone2_having_trouble_any_tips_for_someone/ Pie-jacker875: is it possible to define params on worldedit Pie-jacker875: I want to set the selection to moreblocks:slab_wood, param2: 20 Pie-jacker875: how am I supposed to set a region to slabs that are in a certain orientation Pie-jacker875: I have yet to find an example of how to do this 11G​reenXenith: https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/blob/master/ChatCommands.md#param2-param2 11G​reenXenith: That file documents all the commands 11G​reenXenith: Including the one for setting param2 11G​reenXenith: And if there is a command you need and cant find, there is always //luatransform Pie-jacker875: how about replace param so it only targets one type of node 11G​reenXenith: at that point you'll probably need to use luatransform Pie-jacker875: lol Pie-jacker875: so I take it there's no replace mix either 11J​onathon: yes, use worldedit addition mod 11G​reenXenith: Here's the luatransform command if you want 11G​reenXenith: //luatransform local name = "moreblocks:slab_wood" local param2 = 20 if minetest.get_node(pos).name == name then minetest.swap_node(pos, {name = name, param2 = param2}) end 11J​onathon: https://github.com/sbrl/Minetest-WorldEditAdditions < for replacemix 11J​onathon: also adds a lot more helpful commands Pie-jacker875: RIP my building 11G​reenXenith: always make backups 11G​reenXenith: nothing in worldedit can be reverted Pie-jacker875: at least it was just a single slice of my building Pie-jacker875: also thanks for indulging my laziness 11J​onathon: wasn't there a mod that added a worldedit //undo at one point? Pie-jacker875: I was just reading about that, sounds like there is at least one but it's not entirely reliable 11J​onathon: i think lsw had it at one point, i would have to ask ls13/cee-gee about it 11G​reenXenith: https://github.com/HybridDog/we_undo 11J​onathon: or there it is Bombo: how do i make a user an admin again? /grantme all doesn't seem to work Bombo: 'insufficient permittions' Bombo: s/tt/ss 13G​enshin: hopefully someone can test this https://notabug.org/Genshin/cheat_detection Bombo: in ~/.minetest/games/ i did 'git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git' then edited 'minetest_game/minetest.conf' added just 'name=bombo' but '/grantme all' didn't work 04o​neplustwo: > hopefully someone can test this https://notabug.org/Genshin/cheat_detection @/g/ what features does it have? like what hacks does it check for? 13G​enshin: @oneplustwo So far it can detect: Killaura, Fast dig, instant break nodes, forced fast, forced fly, forced noclip, and jesus walk 04o​neplustwo: what does fast dig do? 04o​neplustwo: i thought unlimited range was solved 13G​enshin: fast dig allows you to instantly dig diggable nodes 04o​neplustwo: what about scaffold? 13G​enshin: Not yet 04o​neplustwo: i mean technically people could have a normal client and just set right_click_repeat to 0.01 13G​enshin: Also it has a automod feature that allows a server host to enable/disable autoban or autokick when detection found a culprit consistently triggering the following detections 11G​reenXenith: digging fast is different from breaking fast 11G​reenXenith: if a player breaks an obsidian node in under a second using the bare hand, thats an issue 13G​enshin: Yes, breaking fast allows you to dig unbreakables with anything, even your bare hand 04o​neplustwo: insta break isnt that op 04o​neplustwo: you cant break obsidian with your bare hands 11G​reenXenith: Depends on the game 04o​neplustwo: depends on the dig time 04o​neplustwo: and i think the instabreak is client side only or something 11G​reenXenith: Maybe you missed the part where it said "cheat" 04o​neplustwo: well i have a hacked client with instabreak 04o​neplustwo: and i know that if the node takes more than a second to mine, you cant really instabreak it 10J​ordach: doubt 10J​ordach: also: setting speeds to that wouldn't do anything on right click because of server_step 10J​ordach: it'd read rightclick as a single button press due to delayed updates 04o​neplustwo: > also: setting speeds to that wouldn't do anything on right click because of server_step @Jordach still, blocks can be place a lot faster 10J​ordach: and? i can click stupid fast 10J​ordach: doesn#t change a thig 10J​ordach: games that /dont/ use the default Minetest mechanics come out unscathed 04o​neplustwo: well the speed at which you can bridge is similar to the speed at which you can scaffold 04o​neplustwo: which was my point 10J​ordach: nerdpoling is the easiest thing on the planet 10J​ordach: look down and hold right mouse Bombo: oh got it it has to go into ~/.minetest/minetest.conf 10J​ordach: https://tenor.com/view/picard-double-facepalm-reaction-gif-3521249 04o​neplustwo: you took the gif right out of my mouth 04o​neplustwo: > doubt @Jordach wdym 13G​enshin: https://tenor.com/view/gordon-ramsay-oh-no-hells-kitchen-no-nope-gif-10726820 10J​ordach: i basically wrote a brand new game using the Minetest engine without even touching the standard digging and placing controls at all 10J​ordach: the world is used, just as terrain 10J​ordach: no survival or crafting 04o​neplustwo: point being? 10J​ordach: it's immune to the usual "hacks" 10J​ordach: which are nothing more than boring source code edits made by script kiddies like you 04o​neplustwo: tracers? 04o​neplustwo: fullbright? 10J​ordach: what is display gamma 04o​neplustwo: HUDbypass? 04o​neplustwo: lol 04o​neplustwo: touché 10J​ordach: bypassing the only formspec on join in my game wont do you any good 10J​ordach: it's required to actually play the game 04o​neplustwo: so in other words 04o​neplustwo: wait what is your game even for? 10J​ordach: https://gfycat.com/timelybrokenbighornedsheep https://gfycat.com/welloffillfatedemperorshrimp 13G​enshin: Its a first person shooting game 10J​ordach: because of the design, i can port it to any game engine that runs Lua due to it's non usage of Minetest related APIs 04o​neplustwo: interesting 10J​ordach: client side hacks pose no threat as everything is calculated server side 10J​ordach: clients are basically untrusted entirely 04o​neplustwo: freecam? Pie-jacker875: wallhacks 10J​ordach: fixed in engine today 04o​neplustwo: how is freecam fixed? 04o​neplustwo: im sure its not 13G​enshin: Wallhacks? You mean no priv noclip? Pie-jacker875: pretty sure wallhacks typically means seeing enemies through walls when you shouldn't be able to 13G​enshin: Pretty sure a detection with raycast would solve that problem 04o​neplustwo: lol 04o​neplustwo: isnt rendering client side? 10J​ordach: yes and irrlicht is so crap you might as well write a new minetest client 04o​neplustwo: lol k 04o​neplustwo: i learned programming yesterday so idk 13G​enshin: https://tenor.com/view/zach-galifianakis-funny-laugh-laughing-weird-laugh-gif-3547058 04o​neplustwo: yes i opened terminal 04o​neplustwo: then i typed "tree" and then "top" and now i am best hacker in school 12W​arr1024: how are you gonna get down from there though? 04o​neplustwo: ? 04L​one_Wolf: Not a hacker until you can get down without Mr. Incredible 12W​arr1024: to be fair down comes from geese, not tree tops 04o​neplustwo: i hacked my school 04o​neplustwo: :(){:|: &};: 13G​enshin: Tbh I only added strict detection for the following hacks: Killaura, Fast dig, instant break nodes, forced fast, unlimited range, forced fly, forced noclip, and jesus walk. 13G​enshin: The rest are pretty minor to even add detection for them. Scaffolding isnt too much of an issue tbh 13G​enshin: It doesn't disrupt gameplay in any way 13G​enshin: But if people want me to add a detection for it, i'll gladly make one 04o​neplustwo: > The rest are pretty minor hacks to even add detection for them. > > Scaffolding isnt too much of an issue tbh @/g/ depends on the game 13G​enshin: @oneplustwo > But if people want me to add a detection for it, i'll gladly make one 13G​enshin: happy now? @oneplustwo 13G​enshin: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/759563390909153312/Screenshot_at_2020-09-26_19-53-20.png 04o​neplustwo: the council is satisfied with your work. they will now claim credit for it 13G​enshin: Repo is AGPLv3 SoylentCow: this did it: https://gitlab.com/survivor-mods/hardcore_death/-/blob/hightime/init.lua SoylentCow: thanks sfan5 :D SoylentCow: come to think of it, your initial suggestion to return 11true in 11on_respawnplayer may be right on the money SoylentCow: this would prevent the teleport before respawn, leaving player's coords where player died? SoylentCow: i think this is exactly what we would want with permadeath melu: Could I use an API REST in minetest? Or could be enabled with a mod from https://content.minetest.net/ ? BuckarooBanzai: melu: you can use the http-api: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/9bff154cba14686f5a3b56f4cba405824b88c402/doc/lua_api.txt#L5520-L5542 BuckarooBanzai: be sure to add the mod in "secure.http_mods" melu: I have seen https://github.com/miney-py/mineysocket mod but it's not in https://content.minetest.net/ melu: tried to find something similar in https://content.minetest.net/ and got lost (can't discriminate) LPKI_Ram1: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md LPKI_Ram1: !up mt.lpki.org MinetestBot: mt.lpki.org:30000 is up (41ms) (IPv4) Andrew[66]: hi luk3yx sivarajan: hi @Sokomine TomTom: i installed minetest 5.3.0 in a virtualbox vm running xubuntu. now i hit this one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9570 is there a solution for this? i changed mouse sensitivity, windows mode etc... sfan5: I think that might be because VMs cannot properly capture the mouse cursor * jas_: /bind uparrow +forward jas_: ... wishful thinking jas_: i'm just happy i can bind item slots and now mouse buttons jas_: even though there's a bug where when you place then hover over an ent, it duplicates the place action jas_: which activates that ent's on_rightclick jas_: minah! jas_: hahahahaha jas_: i am looking forward to a time when all mouse buttons and peripherals are supported, in addition to stuff like /bind commands and /vstr commands A LA QUAKE jas_: such that +forward becomes an action you can bind to uparrow key, and +moveleft, +moveright, and also +strafe, and +jump (or, in this case +place); then someone in a VM can use the keyboard, and joysticks jas_: oh that reminds me, you could try the joystick in the VM TomTom TomTom: i will not play with joystick/gamepad :-) TomTom: solved it. jas_: my man TomTom: i just had to disable the "mouse integration" of the vm... jas_: ^5 jas_: should add that to the faq jas_: !faq jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: MultiCraft Creative Server, FLAT WORLD [0.4 OR 5.0+] | eu1.multicraft.world:40003 | Clients: 125/200, 98/159 | Version: 2.0.0 / MultiCraft | Ping: 14ms jas_: !mod jas_: wow 125/200, i never knew jas_: i always saw 99+ jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Coloured Glass [colouredglass] by JBR - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6217 LPKI_Ramen1: !server MinetestBot: LPKI_Ramen1: [JP] Peaceful world | 140.227.32.211 | Clients: 0/20, 0/0 | Version: 5.3.0 / minetest | Ping: 252ms jas_: yay jas_: <3 LPKI_Ramen1: Omg its random servers? LPKI_Ramen1: !server MinetestBot: LPKI_Ramen1: minetest.zirtin.net | minetest.zirtin.net:30820 | Clients: 0/50, 0/1 | Version: 5.3.0 / minetest | Ping: 89ms jas_: good on fixer attaching that colouredglass.zip jas_: cuz all the links are dead jas_: !mod too MinetestBot: jas_: Shared chests with bag support [chesttools] by Sokomine - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=10160 - https://github.com/Sokomine/chesttools jas_: if you don't supply an argument LPKI_Ramen1: !mod MinetestBot: LPKI_Ramen1: Jumpdrive [jumpdrive] by BuckarooBanzay - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20073 - https://github.com/thomasrudin-mt/jumpdrive LPKI_Ramen1: !mod cheat MinetestBot: LPKI_Ramen1: Anticheat for subgame server [fairplay] by TalkLounge - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20206 - https://github.com/TalkLounge/fairplay jas_: cool, huh? jas_: i like to do it once a day, and check out the mod jas_: like a mod of the day, and server of the day thing, if you like specing: Is there a safe way to run two minetest clients side by side? specing: They seem to poop eachother after a minute due to sqlite locking specing: (I have map saving enabled) sfan5: disable map saving on one instance specing: how specing: Can I disable that one option in particular? sfan5: you can run the client from separate config files specing: Without having to fork config file sfan5: ...no specing: D: specing: ok jas_: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! sivarajan: !mod trains MinetestBot: sivarajan: Advanced Trains [advtrains] by orwell - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14726 - https://github.com/h-v-smacker/advtrains_granite sivarajan: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md NathanS21: has the / key stopped working for direct entry of commands? or is it just me? jas_: check minetest.conf for the setting i guess, or try change keys menu again NathanS21: Well it still works if I hit t or F10 first, it just won't pull up the chat itself. NathanS21: built this morning. NathanS21: 5.3.0 still works just fine. NathanS21: I guess maybe I'll try clearing the .conf and maybe make a fresh build. NathanS21: thanks. jas_: slash works for me, and dot for client command. enter is for chat, and tilde for console jas_: the menu does say to check the .conf if things get screwy jas_: which is really something. i guess you could try /set keymap_key_slash, but i doubt that works in-game jas_: /bind jas_: /vstr jas_: (i'm at HEAD also) NathanS21: Well the key works once I have the chat open, so I don't think the keybinding is at fault, though it does show the right key there as well. jas_: i would just search KEYMAP_ in your .conf and make sure there are no duplicates jas_: minetest can't handle duplicate binds, unfortunately jas_: so /bind x +forward; /bind c +forward will never work, unlike quake jas_: i will get the gpl source for quake and figure out how to add this feature NathanS21: Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that, will check it out. jas_: HAHA JK NathanS21: okay, fixed it. Not a duplicate though. NathanS21: I guess my keyboard decided to randomly change what key that is? NathanS21: So the keybinding showed the / NathanS21: but when I reset it, by clicking on it in the menu and pressing that key it now shows OEM2 jas_: /vst x '+sneak; say hi; -sneak'; /bind x vstr x jas_: hit x to crouch and say hi jas_: ... oh no you're right NathanS21 that is a regression jas_: i recall having to do similar NathanS21: It worked three days ago, and I have a script that builds for me every morning around 4am local time. NathanS21: I don't remember seeing any issues that should have effected this. NathanS21: Admittedly though I'm not too 'in' on engine stuff. jas_: sounds super familiar, pretty sure i ran into the same issue and simply clicked the button in the GUI menu to rebind bebebeko: folks, how i can set breakpoint in minetestserver (he was compiled with -ggdb -g -O0) bebebeko: gdb bin/minetestserver -> set follow-fork-mode child -> b src/network/serverpackethandler.cpp:1771 -> run <<< doesn't work :( sfan5: should work sfan5: you also don't need that follow-fork-mode thing bebebeko: sfan5 thank you, i have tried without "follow-fork-mode" the same result sfan5: maybe set the breakpoint on the line before bebebeko: sfan5: unfortunately "b void Server::handleCommand_Init" doesn't work too... hm bebebeko: oh, yep, it's mistake s/void// bebebeko: my bad sfan5: why _Init, the line you posted is a different one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/network/serverpackethandler.cpp#L1771 sfan5: but either way setting a breakpoint on a function name works too bebebeko: sfan5: i work in own fork, then the lines don't match bebebeko: sfan5: yep, i found mistake in my breakpoint definition, i'm placed "b void Server::handleCommand_Init" instead "b Server::handleCommand_Init" bebebeko: thank you bebebeko: sfan5: could you suggest a way how i can debug this https://termbin.com/jpyk ? unfortunately i can't use bt, because minetestserver process has ended :/ sfan5: something is wrong with the auth entries dunno bebebeko: yep, i try to implement new auth mechanism (AUTH_MECHANISM_PLAIN) https://github.com/9mine/minetest/pull/1/files bebebeko: everything is fine, the client send raw password without encryption to the server side, server side accepts and verifies the password, but after that (looks like in on_joinplayer callback) i have this traceback, and at this moment have no idea how to debug that :/ sfan5: record_login expects that the player who just logged in has an entry in the auth database sfan5: but that isn't the case, hence the assertion failingin sfan5: failing* bebebeko: yep, i'm understand this lua code, i'm don't understand how to debug it ;-) who should make this auth entry and when sfan5: create_auth should bebebeko: btw i'm use "devtest" game without additional modules bebebeko: sfan5: thanks, i'll try to figure it out bebebeko: looks like i found the problem https://github.com/9mine/minetest/pull/1/files#diff-ac9ac0a3a5e432320dd8784aaeeef672R251 _Zaizen_: Hi everyone I would like to know if there's a way to increase the y value at which an attached particlespawner starts spawning. Eg: I have attaced a particlespawner to a player but it is spawned compenetrated to the head of the player. How can I make so it follows the player while being over his head? sfan5: uh? sfan5: just add the offset to minpos and maxpos _Zaizen_: Ok, but how do I do it? When the entity is attached the position change based on the player position and I don't understan how to do the offset sfan5: when attached minpos and maxpos are relative to the player _Zaizen_: I still don't understand how the offset is supposed to be done jas_: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L6148 jas_: oops _Zaizen_: jas_: I've tried doing minpos = {x=0, y=2, z=0}, but still doesn't seem to work. jas_: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L8171 jas_: so https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L8141 the attachment is relative to minmax pos, acc, vel jas_: so says lua_api.txt jas_: hm, maybe i try in 1 min jas_: gotta get up right now though, just did a few hours of Urban Terror _Zaizen_: DW, in the meantime I will continue trying with other parameters. jas_: no worries. it reminds me i was just thinking of trying out particles when sprinting. i'd removed them from gunship_penguin's original sprint mod, and never tried again jas_: !mod gunship_penguin MinetestBot: jas_: There are no results for this query :( jas_: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9650 | https://github.com/GunshipPenguin/sprint sfan5: >I've tried doing minpos = {x=0, y=2, z=0}, but still doesn't seem to work. sfan5: that was my suggestion rubenwardy: !mod stamina MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Stamina [stamina] - hunger, exhaustion by sofar - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19675 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/stamina _Zaizen_: jas_ I've found the solution rubenwardy: has sprint too, I think? jas_: oh? rubenwardy: actually no jas_: !mod sneakjump sfan5: !mod hbsprint MinetestBot: jas_: sneakjump 100 by jas - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=22683 - https://github.com/jastevenson303/sjcsm MinetestBot: sfan5: Sprint w. hudbars, hunger, monoids support [hbsprint] by texmex - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18069 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/hbsprint jas_: !mod supersprint MinetestBot: jas_: SuperSprint2 [supersprint_csm] by jas - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24965 Krock: more sprint mods: https://krock-works.uk.to/minetest/modSearch.php?st=0&at=0&q=sprint _Zaizen_: jas_ sfan5: i've solved by specifying also the maxpos. I was only saying what was the minpos and that caused the problem. Thanks for your help! jas_: oh neat, good to know sfan5: yes you do need both jas_: Krock: i got five entries on that page of search results, heh Krock: know your limits jas_: limits? Krock: jas_: hmm.. I can only see three of yours? jas_: i started using everamzah in 95, and stopped four years ago now jas_: https://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/everamzah/ Krock: that explains why this evermazah dude was suddenly gone jas_: no i just stopped using the name and deleted as many as i could jas_: i do go on hiatus sometimes tho jas_: i'm so happy with minetest right now, i think you're all doing a terrific job and are wonderful jas_: thank you for minetest Krock: terrific... lol jas_: hm , no? "of great size, amount, or intensity." jas_: oh... " jas_: causing terror." jas_: that second definition, tho jas_: while airborne the player can control movement, it seems, equally along X and Z axes. i wonder how easy it would be to restrict or limit the amount of control along just one axis (left and right). then check yaw and diagonals and strafe left and right buttons and strafe jump in minetest hahaha jas_: oh neat there's a wikipedia section https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafing_(video_games)#Strafe-jumping jas_: "Done correctly and continuously, this will gradually increase the player's speed. Mastering this technique requires much practice. Sustained strafe-jumping is mainly a matter of muscle memory, as both the required range and precision of mouse movements increase as the player builds up speed." MinetestBot: 02[git] 04BuckarooBanzay -> 03minetest/minetest: Correct erroneous reported max lag with prometheus (#10427) 13c6e3050 https://git.io/JUai6 (152020-09-25T16:52:42Z) LPKI_Ramen: !up mt.lpki.org MinetestBot: mt.lpki.org:30000 is up (42ms) (IPv4) luk3yx: TomTom: Could you disable mouse integration and change the mouse type? TomTom: luk3yx: I already disabled the mouse integration and that solved the problem dievri: hello. I saw in worldedit functions to set area specified by two positions to the node specified. Is is any tool to set also node meta in the area specified? BuckarooBanzai: dievri, tool? not that i know of but you can use the lua worldedit command: '//lua minetest.get_meta(worldedit.pos1["dievri"]):set_int("something", 42)' BuckarooBanzai: (this only sets the meta on the position of the first marker though) dievri: hello. I have an area from p1 to p2 of nodes. how quickly set meta data to the nodes? meta data will be the same sfan5: there's no quicker way to do that than the usual methods dievri: in a loop, setting each node? 08a​ppguru: Yes bebebeko: folks, it's a bug when i got SRP data in minetest.create_auth handler, the data is '#1#botK7gWgYwifzzluWzDpEw#IXcaAF7Hn1ABnlimt2F9xYhD+o+Q3PyZfEiES.....' ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome bebebeko: it's related to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10331 ? sfan5: huh? rubenwardy: that doesn't look like a bug to me rubenwardy: well, you're going to have to be more specific rubenwardy: that looks like an encoded SRP string - SRP relies on a few pieces of data, which are concatenated into a single string bebebeko: rubenwardy: is there a way to get password base64(sha1.digest(username + password)) from SRP record ? i try to write custom auth handler rubenwardy: No, SRP doesn't contain the password rubenwardy: SRP works by the client proving they know the password, without ever sending the password to the server bebebeko: oh shi~ thank you for clarification, is that means i need write my own SRP auth handler, yep? Yoda_: a question Yoda_: about armor damage rubenwardy: You can return sha1 digests from the custom auth handler, if the account was created externally. But for newly created accounts, I don't think you can force sha1 - you'd need to handle sha1 Yoda_: here is this player that seems gets no damage is this possible Yoda_: maybe a hacked client Corey[m]: Yoda_: Does anyone else on the server take damage? Yoda_: yes Yoda_: this one player it seems gets non Yoda_: had a one on one pvp Yoda_: no damage on her part sfan5: did you check the armor groups defined for that player? Yoda_: I was hitting hundreds of times Yoda_: nothing lol Corey[m]: Hits don't matter if the armor cancels all of it Yoda_: no bebebeko: rubenwardy: may be the problem in my debug workflow, but looks like the in the first call of minetest.create_auth, password variable is a SRP data ... (server and client == 5.3.0) rubenwardy: yes, the client will always register with SRP data rubenwardy: SHA1 is only used if the account is already registered with that rubenwardy: ie: if get_auth returns SHA1 data rubenwardy: hmm, I wonder if you can downgrade attack with this rubenwardy: probably sfan5: in theory the server could pretend the account exists to force sha1, couldn't it? sfan5: yeah Yoda_: nice to see you are still around sfan5 its an honor to see you bebebeko: okay, got it, i write auth handler for custom backend, and backend required some password (sha1/base64 doesn't matter, some "fixed" string without random data), how i can achieve that? sfan5: I don't leave easily ;) sfan5: anyway most damage is server-side, so a mod or the armor groups must be cancelling it Yoda_: I see Yoda_: ILl talk to the admin Yoda_: about it Yoda_: thank you bebebeko: if i understood correctly, auth rx module doesn't work in 5.3.0 https://bitbucket.org/sorcerykid/auth_rx right? rubenwardy: Have you tried it? rubenwardy: ContentDB says it works in 5.3 rubenwardy: there's even a lite version that is 5.3+ bebebeko: rubenwardy: nope, i didn't tried, looks like i need to learn more about SRP, but it's a little suprised me bebebeko: i mean, that is there no way to pass password from client to server side for "unusual" backend authorization (as in my case) bebebeko: looks like i need to introduce new packet type AUTH_MECHANISM_PLAIN and increase ToClientCommand/ToServerCommand enums ;-) rubenwardy: would need a big red warning dialog SoylentCow: hi everyone SoylentCow: i have a regression inhardcore_death mod SoylentCow: something about overloading on_join_player SoylentCow: this did not use to happen, but now happening, may be since one of the post-5 upgrades SoylentCow: ------------------------ SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:34: ACTION[Server]: gir [65.78.128.111] joins game. List of players: gir SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:34: [Server]: static int ModApiServer::l_get_player_information(lua_State*): peer was not found SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:34: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:34: ACTION[Server]: gir leaves game. List of players: SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:35: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'default' in callback on_joinplayer(): ...est/bi SoylentCow: n/../games/minetest_game/mods/default/init.lua:24: attempt to index local 'info' (a nil value) SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:35: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:35: ERROR[Main]: ...est/bin/../games/minetest_game/mods/default/init.lua:24: in function '?' SoylentCow: 2020-09-24 16:09:35: ERROR[Main]: ...e/survivor/minetest/bin/../builtin/game/register.lua:429: in function <...e/survivor/minetest/bin/../builti SoylentCow: n/game/register.lua:413> SoylentCow: ---------------------------- SoylentCow: the culprits: SoylentCow: function hardcore_death:kick_player(player) SoylentCow: local playername = player:get_player_name() SoylentCow: if hardcore_death.dead[playername] then SoylentCow: minetest.chat_send_all("the ghost of " .. playername .. " says hi") SoylentCow: minetest.kick_player(playername, playername .. " is dead. make a new avatar to keep playing.") SoylentCow: end SoylentCow: end SoylentCow: minetest.register_on_respawnplayer(function(player) SoylentCow: hardcore_death:kick_player(player) SoylentCow: end) SoylentCow: ------------------ sfan5: absolutely use a paste service next time SoylentCow: i am sorry sfan5: you need to return true from on_respawnplayer if you kick the player SoylentCow: i am terribly sorry, i should have done this: https://dpaste.org/vYWV SoylentCow: thank you so much sfan5: what seems interesting to me however is that respawnplayer runs before joinplayer sfan5: or do you have another on_joinplayer hook? SoylentCow: not that i know of, but i have about 200mods here sfan5: in harcode_death I mean sfan5: hardcore* SoylentCow: oh no, i dpasted the entire hc_death code SoylentCow: and i tested crash by commenting out the 2 register_on functions SoylentCow: calls sfan5: you say two but there is only one sfan5: ah nvm sfan5: I didn't open the link SoylentCow: oh yeah sorry i mean... yeah SoylentCow: hmm what i did ain't working: https://dpaste.org/Wns0 SoylentCow: oh... is that because i send chat to all? SoylentCow: nope... SoylentCow: commenting out kick fixed it SoylentCow: i'lltry delay i guess... sfan5: yeah the respawnplayer was misleading sfan5: what you need is to kick them delayed using minetest.after(0, ...) SoylentCow: awesome sauce, i am gonna try that :) specing: Is it necessary to immidiately update formspecs if something happens? Can it be done ondemand? Can they be only sent to client when the client wishes to interact with whatever uses them? sfan5: I assume you're referring to formspecs in metadata specing: I'm investigating ridiculously high network traffic (client side) that happens when I enter areas with many machines specing: from 5KB/s where nothing is happening, to 10KB/s with mobs and then to 200KB/s and beyond when machines are involved specing: this is not normal sfan5: did you look inside the traffic? specing: not yet specing: yes yes.... dievri: Hello. I'm struggling with custom auth handler. I store password remotely. If it is no password, I return null both in geth_auth and create_auth. But for the very first time, it is possible to login for everyone, every name/pass pair. Or in which function I need to return is user is succeeded to login? dievri: or, at least, how to access player new password hash outside create_auth function? sfan5: doesn't the engine store the new password after the player successfully logs in? dievri: as far as I understood, If both get_auth and create_auth return nil, then player successfully logs in. specing: Is it possible to control tool use in CSMs? specing: i.e. to implement a crude client-side worldedit? specing: all I saw were chat mods and stuff sfan5: I don't know exactly what you are referring to but I'm pretty sure the answer is no 11I​hrFussel: Can someone explain to me in what cases it's possible in 5.1 to execute functions inside minetest.deserialize()? 11I​hrFussel: I mean malicious code execution 11I​hrFussel: Example: I have a command and accept an arbitrary string from it and store that in my file to later retrieve it as a table value again...is an exploit ossible there? sfan5: you only have an issue if you put something an user wrote into minetest.deserialize specing: sfan5: I'd like to write a script to place blocks in a pattern sfan5: of course this doesn't apply if you serialize user input and then deserialize it at some point later specing: sfan5: with switching of inventory stacks and occasional consumption of food sfan5: definitely not possible with CSM specing: D: 11I​hrFussel: Okay so ANY user input via a command is safe from exploitation? sfan5: if you don't do weird things like wanting the user to enter a lua table, sure sfan5: by the way the only possible exploit with unsafe deserialize is to freeze your server 11I​hrFussel: I basically just store param from register_chatcommand() in a table and write that to a file and on restart I load that file to turn the string into a table again...so no matter what my users enter as 'param' I can safely process it right? sfan5: yes specing: sfan5: are there any plans to make that possible in CSMs? sfan5: specing: unlikely, automated client-side behaviour is easily abused sfan5: and making such things possible isn't the long term goal of CSM specing: What is the long term goal? sfan5: letting the server improve the experience by having server mods that provide a component to run on the client specing: sfan5: how hard would it be to modify minetest to add the required api for this? sfan5: not hard sfan5: in fact, a hack/cheat client I'm aware of has already done this specing: excellent specing: where can one get those patches? sfan5: ... specing: ? dievri: How to prevent automatic login aftrer create_auth? Krock: return as string here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4578 Krock: s/ as / a / dievri: I can call this func myself? Krock: you register a callback in one of your mods IronOxidizer[m]: How do I build devtest? When I build minetest, it says `Game specified in default_game [minetest] is inavlid` Krock: you don't need to build Lua code Krock: devtest is a game for the Minetest engine Krock: which is now called "minimal", and is integrated in 5.3.0 or newer IronOxidizer[m]: How do I specifiy it? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1274 Krock: minetest.conf : default_game = devtest IronOxidizer[m]: Ah, thanks IronOxidizer[m]: Missed that Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! IronOxidizer[m]: Hmm, still says the same error `Game specified in default_game [minetest] is inavlid` Krock: which minetest.conf did you edit? Krock: did you close all minetest(server) instances prior editing? IronOxidizer[m]: Nvm I wrote it to the wrong dir IronOxidizer[m]: I'm guessing I need to build minetest with a server to play locally Krock: the minetest client includes a server IronOxidizer[m]: Cause now i don't get any errors, but nothing happns Krock: otherwise you couldn't play singleplayer mode IronOxidizer[m]: Yeah, I'm building with `BUILD_SERVER=NO` in cmake Krock: doesn't matter. it's forced to YES when building a client IronOxidizer[m]: I wonder what's happening then Krock: actually. I'm not sure about that. there's for sure server code in the client, but I don't know whether that's in direct relation to BUILD_SERVER Krock: anyway Krock: minetest --server --worldname "mycoolworld" should start a server Krock: and minetest --go --address "" joins a local server (if you're using <5.3.0) IronOxidizer[m]: Hmm, the client starts then instantly closes with no errors IronOxidizer[m]: The server is running fine though Krock: well then.. use the GUI to join it manually IronOxidizer[m]: The GUI is launched by simply running ./minetest correct? Krock: yes... just try it IronOxidizer[m]: I've tried that already, no window appears IronOxidizer[m]: And it exits with no errors dievri: In create_auth I have some condition, if not met, I would not like user create account. But, whatever I do (returning nil, false, invalid pass), user actually logs in to the server.... Krock: what OS are you using? Krock: ChromeOS: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10216 IronOxidizer[m]: aarch64 musl postmarketOS sfan5: is that a phone or? IronOxidizer[m]: Yeah Krock: dievri: all you could try is to kick the player, but it's really not the right place to perform such checks sfan5: it probably fails to create the irrlicht device or some stupid thing and there's no log message dievri: where I can check? Krock: dievri: in on_prejoinplayer. you can check whether the player is already registered there - using the auth functions, and skip your checks for existing accounts dievri: but I need to check a password hash, which is just in create_auth accessable to me dievri: oh, wait ... Krock: why? Krock: there's also default_password to restrict access by defualt: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1314 Krock: though players will have to rejoin in order to change their password (known issue) sfan5: IronOxidizer[m]: does it say anything useful when ran with --verbose dievri: in create_auth info I use user credentials to login to external resource, where I also store their info. If response it ok, than they are allowed to login to minetest server. Krock: async login process... uh, I have no idea how to approach this Krock: I'd perhaps send a request on joinplayer, and remove the auth if a denying answer arrives from the remote service Krock: which the results in the player being kicked, or having reduced privileges dievri: now way stop login from create_auth? dievri: *no Krock: I don't think so IronOxidizer[m]: sfan5: Looks like everything works fine until a random `Irrlicht: Quit messaged recieved` and everything stops Krock: at least I never tried that. perhaps there's a way, but I cannot help you further there Krock: IronOxidizer[m]: was a debug.txt file created? do you have gdb installed (by any chance?)? Krock: might also be worth trying Lua instead of LuaJIT (if that was used) IronOxidizer[m]: A debug.txt was created but no useful information was given other than `2020-09-23 18:48:09: [Main]: Automatically selecting world at [/home/user/minetest/bin/../worlds/world] IronOxidizer[m]: ` Krock: seems to be the output from minetest --server MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace MyEventReceiver KeyList with std::unordered_set (#10419) 13787561b https://git.io/JUgHw (152020-09-23T17:12:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04tenplus1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Ability to remove minetest.after once set (#10103) 1334e3ede https://git.io/JUgHr (152020-09-23T17:11:56Z) IronOxidizer[m]: Sweet, I got it working. The issue was irrlicht isn't compatible with xwayland so I had to switch over to openbox IronOxidizer[m]: 1 major problem, I'm in game and I hear sounds and everything perfectly, but I can't get the debug menu (f5) to showup and I don't see any blocks or particle effects. Just the skybox IronOxidizer[m]: Actually, I don't know if it's a skybox, just blue when I look up, and dark grey when I look down Krock: if you can change your view, F5 must work too Krock: means the server has troubles with mapgen. check debug.txt for new logs IronOxidizer[m]: I force enabled it in adanved settings IronOxidizer[m]: Works IronOxidizer[m]: ~12 FPS, nice Krock: ouch IronOxidizer[m]: Still not blocks rendering though Krock: how about joining other servers? does that work? IronOxidizer[m]: I mean, I am playing on a PinePhone. Just getting this work is pretty nice IronOxidizer[m]: Yeah, I joined other servers, still no block rendering Krock: disable shaders? IronOxidizer[m]: They are disabled IronOxidizer[m]: Tried both enabled and disabled IronOxidizer[m]: I can see the block info in the debug stats, I can hear the grass sounds when walking, and I can see my fps go up when I look at the floor or ceiling. IronOxidizer[m]: So something weird is going on Krock: try the "software" render Krock: interesting IronOxidizer[m]: Oh, lol. I checked the logs. ALl the textures are "fully transparent" IronOxidizer[m]: Where do I get textures from? IronOxidizer[m]: Nvm, regardless of the texturepack I use, the textures are invisible Elon_Sat0shi: so i just heard that among us has cheaters now, sounds like imposter cheaters can disable the kill cooldown and kill all the crewmates instantly Elon_Sat0shi: I hope the devs implement a server-side timer or something Elon_Sat0shi: It reminded me about how Minetest is more secure about not trusting the user dievri: Why player still online, when get_auth returning nil? Elon_Sat0shi: hmm, no clue rubenwardy: the auth data isn't continuely checked rubenwardy: like, the player doesn't continuously authenticate rubenwardy: once they're connected, that's it rubenwardy: you can kick them dievri: get_auth gets called constantly dievri: I put return nil both in create_auth and get_auth, and player still logs in Krock: return values are sometimes simply ignored Krock: handled return values are documented. dievri: I can't understand logic or flow of the auth rubenwardy: seems weird for it to be called constantly rubenwardy: wait, privileges rubenwardy: get_auth contains privileges rubenwardy: privileges will be checked almost constantly dievri: I don't quite understand, how to stop player login process, if create_auth fails. Krock: perhaps create_auth must not fail dievri: hmm, it's true also for get_auth MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orbea -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Furnace: Start the timer on on_metadata_inventory_take (#2639) 13dd91a1b https://git.io/JUgAN (152020-09-23T20:58:09Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix horizontal/vertical merging bug of hardware-colored framed glass … 139bff154 https://git.io/JUgjX (152020-09-23T23:10:50Z) IronOxidizer[m]: Anyone know what's causing my build to fail? https://pastebin.com/raw/QNX3GrTq Corey[m]: You have quite a few missing dependencies Corey[m]: gettext, freetype, curses, sqlite Corey[m]: to name a few, probably more after you install those and run the build again IronOxidizer[m]: Are they all needed? I thought sqlite wasn't needed when using postgres Corey[m]: I think you need at least gettext and curses, if you compile server only you should be able to skip freetype, sqlite can be disabled by flag 'I think', if not, you'll just have to install that as well sfan5: IronOxidizer[m]: sqlite is needed since it's also used for other things, most other things are optional (but strongly encouraged) sfan5: are you trying to build just minetestserver? dievri: Hello. I writing custom auth handler. I'm testing get_auth function and Minetest keep constantly calling this function. How can I stop minetest from doing this? sfan5: why would you not want that? dievri: i make requests in this function, which is time consuming sfan5: then you need to cache the data dievri: ok, I will do that) IronOxidizer[m]: sfan5: I'm trying to only build the client with GL ES 2.0 sfan5: it's a good idea to install gettext and openal then IronOxidizer[m]: Yeah, I installed those things. I'm having issues linking now. Irrlicht builds successfuly, but when building minetest, the first part is fine, but at link time, it fails cause of many undefined references in irrlicht to gl**** functions sfan5: did you make sure to build the gles branch of irrlicht? IronOxidizer[m]: Which is weird cause I have all libs (so) needed IronOxidizer[m]: Yeah sfan5: can you pastebin the build output? * IronOxidizer[m]: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AqneoaLYOUpSXtKCscAYfvAe/message.txt > IronOxidizer[m]: 1s, I have to clean build. This is gonna take a while. I'll ping u after sfan5: copying OpenGL-Registry headers into irrlicht is a red flag for me sfan5: does alpine not have those headers in the repo? sfan5: also here's what I did last time to compile with gles: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9829#issuecomment-626008400 IronOxidizer[m]: Alpine has all the headers except for GLES 1.0 sfan5: same on arch, you can disable the ogles1 build in irrcompileconfig.h IronOxidizer[m]: Yeah, I'll try that out. IronOxidizer[m]: Where is that file? `find` turns up nothing when looking for it lol IronOxidizer[m]: Nvm * IronOxidizer[m]: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AvkcyoHRujtpBTJxHETsycaF/message.txt > sfan5: no thats just egl sfan5: but the path is wrong so you need to replace it with IronOxidizer[m]: Yeah. IronOxidizer[m]: sfan5: https://pastebin.com/raw/KDaskuMZ IronOxidizer[m]: Disabled GLES1, still no luck sfan5: those symbols should be in libglesv2 is it linking that? sfan5: you can check ./src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/link.txt IronOxidizer[m]: https://pastebin.com/raw/i0Zvt32g IronOxidizer[m]: It's there sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ IronOxidizer[m]: Maybe the people at #irrlicht might have an idea rubenwardy: ha, what people rubenwardy: :) rubenwardy: The Irrlicht forums are a better bet, CuteAlien answers questions there 11a​utomaton: CuteAlien? rubenwardy: The Irrlicht maintainer 11a​utomaton: ah, i see, ty Bombo: hi 11a​utomaton: hi IronOxidizer[m]: Thanks for the help Bombo: i just installed minetest-server on localhost and am connected to it with the client, but it's all dark i seem to be in a hole Krock: Bombo: /grantme all Krock: hit HJK or whatever to enable fly and noclip Krock: you might be inside a cave where Minetest thinks it's a valid spawn surface Bombo: ok i can fly now, have settime privs, but /settime 12 didn't work 'invalid command' Krock: /time 6000 Bombo: oh thx ;) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix chat/infotext overlap if many chat lines (#10399) 1355e2dd9 https://git.io/JUzFY (152020-09-22T16:38:33Z) Bombo: hm let there be light! ;) Bombo: now it's a jungle out there disorder and confusion everywhere Bombo: how do i get just a flat earth MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sofar -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix builtin item metatable (#2328) 135348d6e https://git.io/JUzFc (152020-09-22T16:39:11Z) 11a​utomaton: use the "flat" mapgen 11a​utomaton: if you dont want trees, grass adn the like, use the "no decorations" flag Bombo: in minetest.conf i set 'mg_name = flat' Krock: I wasn't in favour of adding decorations, but that's the problem here 11a​utomaton: then you Should have a flat world, but may have forests Krock: you gotta modify the mgflat_spflags setting Bombo: mg_flags = nocaves, nodungeons, nolight, nodecorations 11a​utomaton: wait, what does nolight do? Krock: "light" is required to not end up in a dark world Bombo: oops ;) Krock: automaton: sunlight 11a​utomaton: ah, i see Bombo: mgflat_spflags = nolakes,nohills Krock: did you delete map.sqlite yet? delete generated data Bombo: can i reload the conf from the console? or i have to restart Krock: so you can check the new settings Krock: shut down minetestserver prior modifying Krock: otherwise minetestserver will overwrite your changes Bombo: minetestserver will overwrite minetest.conf? Krock: that, and map_meta.txt Krock: you should modify map_meta.txt to have per-world settings 11a​utomaton: oh, shouldnt there be some lock that prevents overwrites and the like while the file is "busy"? Krock: minetest.conf only applies for newly created worlds Krock: a​utomaton: perhaps yes, but Minetest does not do that yet 11a​utomaton: i see, ty Krock: there's also no open file handle until Minetest closes. it's only opened once for reading, and then once for writing on shutdown Krock: that might be the reason why the file is never locked 11a​utomaton: ah, i see, Bombo: i can't find map.sqlite anywhere 11a​utomaton: it should be in the "World" folder 11a​utomaton: it should be in the "World" folder 11a​utomaton: so ~/.minetest/worlds//map.sqlite iirc Krock: what's your server's OS? Bombo: prob the game dir is /usr/share/games/minetest/games/minetest_game Bombo: linux Bombo: ubuntu Bombo: don't have ~/.minetest Krock: that's your hard-installed system files. minetest server will create a ".minetest" directory in its home path 11a​utomaton: it could also be in /var/games/minetest 11a​utomaton: if i remeber correct, it had the game files there Bombo: ah there it is /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds/world Krock: that's a weird location.. but whatever. okay. Krock: I hope you're not running it as root, though. 11a​utomaton: prolly sudo systemctl start Bombo: hm no it generates jungle Bombo: i edited /etc/minetest/minetest.conf and /usr/share/games/minetest/games/minetest_game/minetest.conf Krock: how about "nobiomes" in mg_flags ? Krock: no no. please edit map_meta.txt only Krock: minetest_game/minetest.conf must not be touched MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Settings: Fix unittest memory leak, change input types 13add6836 https://git.io/JUzbI (152020-09-22T17:05:04Z) Krock: Bombo: https://i.postimg.cc/MGm4WWkG/grafik.png Krock: the map generator will take the red marked file as active settings Krock: then it goes upwards if there's no such setting defined Bombo: Krock: ok Bombo: i just deleted map_meta.txt map.sqlite and restarted Bombo: seems to work ;) Bombo: now earth is flat Krock: flat earth theory confirmed Bombo: ;) Bombo: so map_meta.txt is the same settings as conf Bombo: but generated Bombo: and modified during runtime Bombo: server generates settings according to /etc/minetest/minetest.conf into map_meta.txt Krock: kinda yes Krock: it's more compliacted but that, but it'll suffice as a simple explanation Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Bombo: ;-) Bombo: *builds* Bombo: is it true, that if you build it he will come? 11a​utomaton: who will come? Bombo: good question ;) jas_: "they" jas_: if you build it, "they" will come jas_: oh no, it is "he" ... all these years i remembered it wrong! :D jas_: (i believe "he" was babe ruth, iirc) 11a​utomaton: babe ruth? jas_: that's how i remember the movie. let me check Bombo: some dead baseball player ;) jas_: i'll have to re-watch this one. i'm sticking with babe ruth, because i like that answer luca_: Hello! This is just me testing if this is working. sfan5: it does luca_: Great, thank you Krock: not working try again 11a​utomaton: ? jas_: this statement is false 11a​utomaton: logical fallacy jas_: the statement is affirmative jas_: if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? 11a​utomaton: yes 11a​utomaton: yes jas_: there is no tree 11a​utomaton: wait what? jas_: ha ha jas_: you are a delight luca_: If a fallen tree is generated in minetest, did it really ever fall? jas_: oooh, good one 11a​utomaton: no it was created fallen, ergo it never fell in its existence Bombo: will the latest client be compatible with 0.4.15? 11a​utomaton: unlikely ig Bombo: i mean with a server 0.4.15 11a​utomaton: again, unlikely sfan5: the last client version that is compatible to 0.4.15 is 0.4.17.1 sfan5: but that's already pretty old itself Krock: use 5.0 or newer pls Krock: Bombo: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable Bombo: itruns on ubuntu Bombo: but i want to run a server on debian oldstable Bombo: have to compile it rubenwardy: you can try compiling it yourself rubenwardy: or ports / PPAs (not sure how debian works with this) rubenwardy: compiling minetest is pretty easy on linux Krock: it's a hit/miss game whether PPAs run on debian Krock: debian has its backports repository 11a​utomaton: wait, isnt debian by nature a backport, with no updates for years? sfan5: debian stays on the same stable version for the entire lifetime of a debian release, this doesn't mean no updates sfan5: the "backports repository" contains newer versions of software 11a​utomaton: ah, i see dievri: hello. In my custom auth handler, in fuction get_auth() i'm returning password like this password = "FAILED TO AUTHENTICATE", and still, minetest is enable player lo log in. But for the second time, player is not able to log in when this type of password is returned. What is the flow of the auth? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Record player existence in dymmy database. 1349117de https://git.io/JUu4s (152020-09-21T02:16:14Z) dievri: hello. Is it possible to save mapblock in a file and move to another server? NetherEran: as a schematic you can NetherEran: with Wuzzy's schemedit mod it shouldn't be too hard NetherEran: though I don't know if schematics preserve metadata dievri: entites also can be saved? NetherEran: not sure Emerald2: I've seen whole parts of map remade from players local saves before. dievri: nodes can be easily serialized in specified area. How can I serialize entities in specified area? shangul: Where can I announce the first release of my MtBotter library? https://notabug.org/farooqkz/mtbotter/releases shangul: Are forums good places for this? 11a​utomaton: ig so shangul: "It is not permissible to promote, link, or otherwise direct Forum users to any kind of "hacking" or "cheating" tools, regardless of their claimed purpose. This includes but is not limited to scripts, bots, modified Minetest clients, CSM mods, third-party programs, etc." -> Does this mean that I can't post my Minetest bot library to Minetest forums? gry: i'm not a forum user but sounds correct.. i'd post a mirror in a few git hosting sites though like bitbucket and github and gitlab etc and tag it with 'minetest' there. i'm a bit biased to https://gitlab.devlabs.linuxassist.net rubenwardy: shangul: depends on the focus of the bot library - library that allows you to interact with the Minetest protocol sounds useful shangul: rubenwardy, Yes but I am not sure cheating or hacking is or is not possible with this library. dievri: textures from visited servers are stored somewhere locally? rubenwardy: that doesn't matter so much rubenwardy: I think it's fine to post that on the forums shangul: ok then I'll post rubenwardy: dievri: yes, cache shangul: rubenwardy, thanks for your reply rubenwardy: there's a folder called cache dievri: where is this folder located? rubenwardy: depends, what OS? dievri: oh, I found It) Its, in home directory rubenwardy: Ok, so Linux probably rubenwardy: ~/.cache/minetest/media rubenwardy: The files have no extensions, but they are valid png/ogg/etc files shangul: finally: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25389 bebebeko: shangul: cooooool! shangul: bebebeko, :) shangul: But just from far it is like that. When you come closer you see that it is not that cool. bebebeko: shangul: I like your approach bebebeko: shangul: sometimes i'm thinking about minetest bots as individual process that connect to the minetest server like irc bots shangul: yeah that was my dream, too. Bloodaxe: Hi! I'm wondering if it's possible to play online using your own custom skins in the Mineclone2-game? Bloodaxe: I tried asking over at #mineclone2, but I got no response so... :-P 05t​woelk: yes but probably not as you hoped 05t​woelk: you will need to supply the server admin with the skin you want to use, it will then be installed serverside and you may use it on the next server restart MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Settings: Fix crash on exit due to group double-free 13e7f33ee https://git.io/JUuxS (152020-09-21T17:29:02Z) dsje21: Could someone please tell me what is the "default" mod metapackage and what is the simple way to fullfit it? dsje21: All the fullfillers here: https://content.minetest.net/metapackages/default/ seem to be games and I'm already playing another game. 08a​ppguru: Simple way is installing Minetest Game dsje21: Thanks but I'm already playing mineclone 2. I'm not seeing how to enable Minetest Game 08a​ppguru: Which mod requires default? rubenwardy: dsje21: unfortunately, default is a Minetest Game only mod rubenwardy: any mods that depend on default only work with Minetest Game and MTG-based games rubenwardy: and so won't work in Mineclone 2 dsje21: appguru: Simple Skins, skinsdb. dsje21: rubenwardy: I see. Thanks, is there any skin changing mod that works in mineclone? rubenwardy: not that I know of rubenwardy: You should file complaints with those mods, they shouldn't depend on default rubenwardy: they should depend on player_api rubenwardy: perhaps even optionally depend rubenwardy: I'll file issues rubenwardy: Filed issues dsje21: rubenwardy:Thanks. but mineclone doesn't provide player_api either and it seems it's more or less the same situation as default: https://content.minetest.net/metapackages/player_api/ . You saying mineclone should provide player_api? rubenwardy: it should if it has a MTG-compatible model Krock: skinsdb was never updated to use the new player_api mod. will look at this soon rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/issues/53 rubenwardy: also, #mineclone2 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Improve player model credits, add contributors to license (#2741) 1363cffc4 https://git.io/JUztv (152020-09-21T22:36:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04louisroyer -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Improve inner/outer stairs translation for external mods (#2584) 134c145bf https://git.io/JUztt (152020-09-21T22:38:49Z) Elon_Sat0shi: is the minetest murder mod sort of like among us? Elon_Sat0shi: i guess everyone knows who the murderer is though Kimapr[m]: no, nobody knows who the murderer is in murder mod either (except the murderer of course) Kimapr[m]: it is like the "murder mystery" minigame, seen in other games, like minecraft LPKI_Ramen1: Hi, who can help with mapserver mod? LPKI_Ramen: My mapserver can't rendering the world. I use minetest 5.3.0 server heavygale: any error message? LPKI_Ramen: No, but rendering doesn't work. LPKI_Ramen: not all areas of the map are displayed. And also some parts of the map are displayed incorrectly heavygale: is the initial rendering finished? LPKI_Ramen: How to start initial rendering correctly, how to understand that it is correct? heavygale: it starts automatically, check the log to see if it finished 08a​ppguru: "not all areas of the map are displayed" - chunks which have not been generated yet can of course not be displayed LPKI_Ramen: The parcels that are already generated are not displayed, since I built my house on that parcel. LPKI_Ramen: is there a mod that can immediately generate a map of the desired size? Krock: immediately? no Krock: but you can run /emergeblocks (pos1) (pos2) Krock: see /help for details Krock: > And also some parts of the map are displayed incorrectly Krock: image? BuckarooBanzai: LPKI_Ramen: "And also some parts of the map are displayed incorrectly" -> can you open an issue about that or report here what exactly goes wrong? thanks :) BuckarooBanzai: !tell aldenp https://github.com/minetest-mirrors/playerfactions/issues/1 MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when aldenp is around LPKI_Ramen: BuckarooBanzai: LPKI_Ramen: Map is works, i'm use 5.4.0minetest, maybe bug in dev version) LPKI_Ramen: Can I limit the size of the map, for example, to 5000 blocks on each side? Krock: yes you can Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1761 <-- into your map_meta.txt file 13G​enshin: Hello Bloodaxe: Hi, this is Bloodaxe! I'm trying to set up a minetest-server on my RaspberryPi 4, with Ubuntu installed. I've installed the minetestserver-package, and I'm trying to run it. I get this response: Bloodaxe: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'FileNotGoodException' Bloodaxe: what(): Failed to open log file /var/log/minetest/minetest.log: Permission denied Bloodaxe: Aborted (core dumped) Bloodaxe: I'm not sure what it means by me not having permission? I've tried running it as root as well, but no luck. Krock: chmod 777 that file. not a good solution, but it's one Krock: never run Minetest as root. please just don't. sfan5: aren't you supposed to be starting it with systemctl? Bloodaxe: Yeah that's what I'm trying to avoid xD I am? From what I read I should be able to launch it by just typing "minetestserver --world (world name)" Bloodaxe: but doing so produces this error message sfan5: run it with --verbose and please pastebin the output and post the link here Hawk777: Sounds like you’re running it as the wrong user. There’s probably a “minetest” user or something which systemd is set up to run Minetest under, and that user has permission to write to /var/log/minetest/minetest.log, but your (human) user doesn’t. Bloodaxe: in the home folder there are two users, the root user and a user I'm intending to use as host for different games as I see fit. I'm not too experienced with Linux yet, so I've probably made some basic error... I'll try that --verbose stuff, and see what happens Bloodaxe: So what's good practice? sending a link to one of those paste-websites, or just paste raw text here in chat? Hawk777: Do you have a reason for wanting to avoid launching Minetest from systemd? Hawk777: pastebin, not here Bloodaxe: https://pastebin.com/dpstfhv5 like this? Bloodaxe: no, not that I'm aware off. I was just following a random tut I found. How do I launch it from systemd? sfan5: huh sfan5: try systemctl start minetest-server.service Bloodaxe: well, it's running now. But I had to type my sudo-password, does that mean the server is running as root? 11a​utomaton: no, iirc you need escalation to screw with systemd Hawk777: No, that would be to make systemctl work, but systemd will run the server under its own dedicated Minetest user. Bloodaxe: aaah, ok that's cool! Bloodaxe: and to stop it I just type stop minetest-server.service? sfan5: yea Bloodaxe: that's pretty sweet :-D Not sure how to launch a specific game + world though xD Bloodaxe: can I do systemctl start minetest-server.service --gameid mineclone2 --worldname bananaphone ? 11a​utomaton: iirc no Bloodaxe: Ok, so I have to launch the server through a normal user to get those commands to work, and not through systemd? Bloodaxe: It seems like the wiki assumes you're not launching through systemd at least. 11a​utomaton: idk bout the second part, but the answer may lie within the .service file Bloodaxe: where can I locate the file? I just open it with nano right? 11a​utomaton: cat should work too 11a​utomaton: or just use sudo systemctl edit .service sfan5: the service file is at /lib/systemd/system/minetest-server.service sfan5: or /usr/lib/systemd/system/minetest-server.service 11a​utomaton: oh, i see, ty Bloodaxe: I checked those folders without any luck... Bloodaxe: Weird sfan5: well systemctl status minetest-server.service can tell you either way Bloodaxe: hmm, it tells me it's in /lib/systemd/system/minetest-server.service Bloodaxe: wth I'm 100% certain I just checked there. Well, it has to be there if it tells me so xD Bloodaxe: ok, found it! I'll try to manage from here then :-D Tnx a lot peeps! Hawk777: I don’t use systemd myself, but my understanding is you’re really supposed to copy the file to somewhere in /etc if you want to customize it, not edit it in place. Hawk777: I’m not sure where exactly though. Hawk777: Otherwise when you e.g. update the Minetest package your customizations would be lost. Hawk777: Looks like probably /etc/systemd/system/minetest-server.service would be the proper place. 11a​utomaton: hm, i read somewhere that the preferred methos was systemctl edit .service Hawk777: Maybe it is. I don’t know systemd. Perhaps that does exactly what I said, makes a copy in /etc. Hawk777: But I know just editing the file in /lib directly is not recommended. 11a​utomaton: ye hisforever: Hi I really need help MT keeps crashing. https://pastebin.com/hQzn3L8v sfan5: aliveai has a bug 13G​enshin: ^this 13G​enshin: at line 1354 in "/home/hisforever/.minetest/mods/aliveai/aliveai/base.lua" hisforever: ok I'll just uninstall that mod thanks shangul: The library is not done, yet. But with what I have written till now I coded this: http://92.222.41.125/users/farooqkz/Peek%202020-09-19%2009-35.webm shangul: hits the nearest mob(monster) Menchers: what is SpatialIndex AreaStore used for? jas_: hi Menchers. it's for quickly determining whether a position is within an area -- at least, that's what i use it for. jas_: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5806 => "A fast access data structure to store areas, and find areas near a given position or area." jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: connected bridge node [viaduct] by pithy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14559 - https://github.com/pithydon/viaduct jas_: hm jas_: from the above link: "You are not authorised to read this forum." mangul: I wonder what "v3f1000" is. I couldn't find its definition by grepping all files in src/ rubenwardy: mangul: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/515d38a702f0ebe1f419ce38c86484ecb845ed36/src/util/serialize.h#L253 Krock: it's map-only. network does no longer use it Krock: for compatibility reasons mangul: rubenwardy, Krock, thank you :) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! mangul: :)) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update game description to manage expectations (#2740) 131d3feba https://git.io/JUEKu (152020-09-19T23:40:49Z) Norkle: small update to sub.nasa-g0v.com 5 extra users Norkle: wanna add some mods so if they found all the mese they can build machines teleport with what they mind no god Norkle: er s/mind/mined 11a​utomaton: I tried installing GreenXenith's .b3d impex module, however, it appears to be erroring out on me: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/446320560625156136/756401645864091668/unknown.png 11G​reenXenith: Installation error 11G​reenXenith: Not coming from my script, as the error states 11G​reenXenith: From what I can see, looks like a naming issue? That -1.0 shouldn't be there 11a​utomaton: ah i see, ty hmmh: imagine using non-foss jas_: imagine all the people adfeno: rubenwardy, sfan5: Krock: CurlFetch servers.minetest.net/announce HTTP 405: it is affecting other servers from other admins, both in 5.2 and 5.3. sfan5: [18/Sep/2020:15:42:13 +0000] "POST /servers.minetest.net/announce HTTP/1.1" 405 sfan5: this happens if you misconfigure serverlist_url sfan5: just remove that from your config, minetest has a default that works adfeno: sfan5: OK, will do. dievri: hello. What setting should I use to see entites, which are far away? sfan5: active_block_range + active_object_send_range_blocks dievri: sfan5, thanks! dievri: hmm, I rised them to 12, but entities still disappearing at distance about 20 point on line. Krock: it's *blocks* Krock: so 12 * 16 nodes Krock: perhaps there's something wrong with the occlusion culling or so dievri: there is a few entities in the air, located in 2D (x and y, z is 0), in the area about 50x50 or so, I would like to see them all from distance Krock: perhaps set "max_block_send_distance" to the same value? dievri: still the same. object at position 5. When I move to position -25, entity disappears Krock: you're changing the settings on the server's side, right? Krock: with minetest shut down prior doing minetest.conf changes? dievri: yes Krock: indeed. I'm also only getting the 5 or 4 blocks around me even with higher values Krock: dievri: increase your view range (+/-) Krock: R (full range) won't load more blocks Krock: I can see a cart drifting ~50m away from me using zoom dievri: Krock, problem solved! dievri: now I see everything :) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! adfeno: sfan5: Hi again, serverlist_url removed from minetest.conf, still didn't work. Krock: "didn't work" is a very inaccurate description of the problem adfeno: Krock: Same message appeared, according to the responsible person. sfan5: I don't see any 405 responses in my log for the last two hours adfeno: sfan5: You mean since 13:46:08 -03:00 or earliear? adfeno: Sorry, for the typo: ^that time, or do you mean some time earliear? sfan5: last was [18/Sep/2020:16:41:54 +0000] adfeno: Ah I see, thanks for the information. adfeno: I'll pass that to the server admin. adfeno: I must go on now, have an appointment shortly, I hope the admin decides to use IRC or XMPP so I don't need to do go back and forth. :) jas_: this isn't a democracy jas_: you're not aloud to talk about politics HAHA ghoti: So, when I run minetest in the Bluestacks emulator, the initial interface (server selection dialog) has no text. As if the font is missing. Anyone seen this before? 11a​utomaton: so i was trying to play with a map that i got from a server, it is a .psql dump, that i had imported into my machine... I tried doing: sql select data from blocks where posx = 10 and posy = 2 and posz = 10; as a test, but i seem to have gotten some nonsense info from it: MTDiscord: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \x1c00ffff0202789cedd8010d00000803a037b07f5b5338a783182400000000000000c07505000000bcb7fd0f000000c0bc06099ef001789c63000000010001000000029c6eb8000001000000036169720a0000 is this expected? or have i made a mistake somewhere? Hawk777: looks like a hex encoding of binary data, which IIRC is what the data for a mapblock is stored as 11a​utomaton: hm, converting from hex to utf-8 did not work though 11a​utomaton: ah sorry, my bad.. Hawk777: But… it’s not text? Hawk777: Of course UTF-8 would not work. 11a​utomaton: ah, sorry, i had misread it 11a​utomaton: so, is there any way i can modify the nodes from the db? ie without minetest Miniontoby: !up MinetestBot: Miniontoby: give me an address and (optionally) a port Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 11a​utomaton: miniontoby: try pinging? Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: why Miniontoby: who are you 11a​utomaton: to see if the server is up or down Miniontoby: its on Miniontoby: I see at the ircmod Miniontoby: but I cant join it 11a​utomaton: is it on your homw network? Miniontoby: its stupid Miniontoby: no Miniontoby: on other irc 11a​utomaton: on a vps? Miniontoby: on an public vps Miniontoby: minetest.orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: as you see Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org 11a​utomaton: hmm, and you can ssh into the server? MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: its an dns record 11a​utomaton: hm, nslookup works? Miniontoby: orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: yes 11a​utomaton: and points to the correct ip? Miniontoby: dig @orange.ircnow.org minetest.orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: works Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: bindaddress is minetest.orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: address is minetest.orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: both 11a​utomaton: hmm, i can ping it too... Miniontoby: try it 11a​utomaton: can you join in? Miniontoby: oh Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: no Miniontoby: ICANT Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: see Miniontoby: that means its down 11a​utomaton: hmm, i see, what are the logs sYING? 11a​utomaton: sorry caps Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 01:15:39: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/miniontoby/minetest/worlds/first] Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 01:15:39: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 209.141.38.137:30000. Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 01:15:39: ACTION[Server]: IRC: Connected! Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 01:15:39: WARNING[Server]: [monitoring] globalstep took 218779 us in mod irc Miniontoby: I dont want to spam here Miniontoby: come to my channel if you wana see log Miniontoby: #miniontoby 11a​utomaton: no need, i think i know what is wrong Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: what?? Miniontoby: oh wait Miniontoby: you cant join it Miniontoby: lol Miniontoby: you are at discord 11a​utomaton: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. 11a​utomaton: is what i get Miniontoby: ik Miniontoby: its better cofnig Miniontoby: hey gry Miniontoby: gry is at my team 11a​utomaton: ? Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: ... Miniontoby: wt Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org 11a​utomaton: nope MinetestBot: ... Miniontoby: huh Miniontoby: resarting it Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org 11I​hrFussel: Try to make it to listen to ALL connections not just your IP MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: here Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: bindaddress to 0.0.0.0 11I​hrFussel: I think MT HAS to listen to 0.0.0.0 in order to work 11a​utomaton: ye Miniontoby: done Miniontoby: no Miniontoby: I hasnt 11I​hrFussel: It has to either listen to 0.0.0.0 or probably an internal IP but NOT your public one Miniontoby: at my vps Miniontoby: 2020-09-14 09:06:30: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/miniontoby/minetest/worlds/world] Miniontoby: 2020-09-14 09:06:30: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 38.81.163.188:30000. Miniontoby: works 11I​hrFussel: That I'm sure of Miniontoby: !up minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 is up (159ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: see Miniontoby: 2020-09-14 09:06:30: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/miniontoby/minetest/worlds/world] Miniontoby: 2020-09-14 09:06:30: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 38.81.163.188:30000. Miniontoby: this is log Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: ... 11a​utomaton: wait Miniontoby: Let me get log Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 01:23:52: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/miniontoby/minetest/worlds/first] Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 01:23:52: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 01:23:52: ACTION[Server]: IRC: Connected! Miniontoby: I changed it so as you wanted Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 11a​utomaton: interesting Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: at my vps it works Miniontoby: its the same build Miniontoby: and same things Miniontoby: ony a little conf change Miniontoby: the irc is at ircnow Miniontoby: !up minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 is up (111ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: anyone an idea?? Miniontoby: im planning to do hosting Miniontoby: on it 11a​utomaton: hmm, its still on 0.0.0.0? Miniontoby: its just yet an test world Miniontoby: yes atm 11a​utomaton: you had onething that was working rt? Miniontoby: I think I might need to let it join here Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: oh wai Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: see Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: OrangeMt5-1: cmd status OrangeMt5-1: # Server: version=5.4.0-dev, uptime=37.17, max_lag=0.49808, clients={} \n # Server: Welcome by my server Miniontoby: OrangeMt5-1: help OrangeMt5-1: Available commands: logout, whereis, login, help, players, say, cmd, uptime, list -- Use 'help ' to get help about a specific command. Miniontoby: OrangeMt5-1: uptime OrangeMt5-1: Server has been running for 0:00:58 Miniontoby: I hear I cant do it Miniontoby: Miniontoby: btw, in freenode, you're not allowed to join a bot to an irc channel unless an op says 'okay' DakotaVeronica: 2 Miniontoby: try to join this irc Miniontoby: and join #miniontoby Miniontoby: if you wana see Miniontoby: what to do??? Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 11a​utomaton: hm, try looking for the original .us5* url Miniontoby: not us5 Miniontoby: us5 is my vps Miniontoby: but it need on the other vps Miniontoby: but yeah 11a​utomaton: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org 11a​utomaton: that one Miniontoby: us5 DOESNT support ipv6 Miniontoby: !up minetest.us5.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.us5.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (host did not resolve) 11a​utomaton: hm, how many people even use ipv6? Miniontoby: !up minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 is up (111ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: oops Miniontoby: us5 DOESNT support ipv6 Miniontoby: ornage.ircnow.org does Miniontoby: ornage.ircnow.org does support ipv6 Miniontoby: !up minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 is up (111ms) (IPv4) 11a​utomaton: hmm, but i looked at those stats, they are not enough for a pulic server Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: what??? Miniontoby: where stats Miniontoby: let me give you a link of the monitoring Miniontoby: at grafana Miniontoby: there is stats of the server Miniontoby: https://miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:3001/d/YUpouLmWk/minetest?orgId=1&refresh=5s 11a​utomaton: not stats, sorry, but specs Miniontoby: oh Miniontoby: https://wiki.ircnow.org/index.php?n=Vps.Vps is us5 Miniontoby: https://wiki.ircnow.org/index.php?n=Orange.Orange and https://orange.ircnow.org/ are both for ornage Miniontoby: https://wiki.ircnow.org/index.php?n=Orange.Orange and https://orange.ircnow.org/ are both for orange 11a​utomaton: hmm, but they dont look like vps's to me? Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: its an stallion Miniontoby: buyvm.org Miniontoby: buyvm.net Miniontoby: I mean Miniontoby: openbsd Miniontoby: it is Miniontoby: mt build from github source Miniontoby: at us5 there is vmstop, vmstop, vmrestart, vmshell cmds Miniontoby: any ideas??? DakotaVeronica: quit Miniontoby: at servers.minetest.net Miniontoby: miniontoby Miniontoby: exist Miniontoby: but not orange Miniontoby: im going to take break eraldev: Hello, how i can check minetest server using udp query? Maybe i can send request to minetest server port, and processing the response? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/protocol.txt#L73 Miniontoby: back Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: automaton Miniontoby: any ideas?? 11a​utomaton: nope sorry, but try starting it with minetest --server --adress 0.0.0.0 --port 30000 Miniontoby: only minetestserver does exist Miniontoby: but yeah Miniontoby: btw Miniontoby: the log starts with Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 02:56:06: ERROR[Main]: Failed to get paths by executable location, trying cwd Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 11a​utomaton: hmm, what is the os? Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: openbsd Miniontoby: I build I myself Miniontoby: no pkg_add Miniontoby: because there is no avaible one at the vps Miniontoby: atm Miniontoby: at my vps there is but I dont use it 11a​utomaton: hmm, try using a prebuilt package, see if anything changer 11a​utomaton: *changes Miniontoby: I dont think its needed Miniontoby: it is running Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: I editedd it Miniontoby: let me see Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: nope sfan5: what are you even trying to do Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 02:59:41: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on :::30000. Miniontoby: I enabled ipv6 Miniontoby: not wokring Miniontoby: hey sfan5 sfan5: how exactly did you enable it? Miniontoby: im trying to get it working Miniontoby: at my vps Miniontoby: same build it wokrs Miniontoby: !up minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 is up (114ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: im trying to get it working Miniontoby: ipv6 disable Miniontoby: resatrting Miniontoby: !up minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 is up (115ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org:30000 -ipv4 MinetestBot: ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2) (file "/home/sfan5/mtbot/modules/serverup.py", line 48, in serverup) Miniontoby: !up -4 orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2) (file "/home/sfan5/mtbot/modules/serverup.py", line 48, in serverup) Miniontoby: help Miniontoby: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md sfan5: I would help but you didn't answer my question Miniontoby: it is online Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: come to #miniontoby Miniontoby: I will bring it there sfan5: no you just need to answer the question I asked 2 minutes ago 11a​utomaton: wait, dint they answer it already? Miniontoby: It is online sfan5: how exactly did you enable [IPv6]? Miniontoby: * OrangeMt5-1 (~Minetest@orange.ircnow.org) has joined Miniontoby: NO Miniontoby: I didnt Miniontoby: but there is setting 11a​utomaton: ah, pardon me sfan5: you didn't enable ipv6? then what? Miniontoby: I put it back on Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2) (file "/home/sfan5/mtbot/modules/serverup.py", line 48, in serverup) Miniontoby: rn Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org 30000 MinetestBot: ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 2) (file "/home/sfan5/mtbot/modules/serverup.py", line 48, in serverup) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: huh Miniontoby: bot is getting Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: ipv4 Miniontoby: I put it on the ipv4 now sfan5: so what is the issue here? Miniontoby: so no ipv6 lookup Miniontoby: I CANT JOIN IT Miniontoby: AND THE BOT SAYS ITS DOWN Miniontoby: BUT IT ISNT Miniontoby: check #miniontoby sfan5: !up minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 MinetestBot: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 is up (111ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: THAT IS MY VPS sfan5: oh that's different? Miniontoby: BUT IT NEED TO BE AT ORANGE Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org Miniontoby: this one MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) sfan5: well then there must be a firewall somewhere Miniontoby: minetest.miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:30000 and minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 Miniontoby: difference Miniontoby: let me show Miniontoby: pass in quick proto udp to port { 30000 } #minetest Miniontoby: this is in pf.conf Miniontoby: I added it Miniontoby: but yeah im bad Miniontoby: this is the thing I need to deal with Miniontoby: pass in quick proto udp to port {domain ntp isakmp ipsec-nat-t} Miniontoby: block drop quick proto udp from any to $ext_ip sfan5: I don't know how the openbsd firewall works so I can't help there Miniontoby: ok 11a​utomaton: if you are willing to risk losing firewall for a bit, you can try getting rid of the firewall Miniontoby: NO Miniontoby: I DONT OWN IT Miniontoby: I am in a team of managing it Miniontoby: BUT I CANT DELETE IT, SORR Miniontoby: BUT I CANT DELETE IT, SORRY sfan5: perhaps you can ask any of them for help with configuring the firewall? Miniontoby: * OrangeMt5-1 (~Minetest@orange.ircnow.org) has joined Miniontoby: * OrangeMt5-1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Miniontoby: huh Miniontoby: you'll need to force pf to reload rules somehow Miniontoby: ok the error was at ircmod Miniontoby: its sooooooooooooooo strange Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 03:14:04: ERROR[Main]: Failed to get paths by executable location, trying cwd Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 03:14:05: ACTION[Server]: Announcing to servers.minetest.net Miniontoby: .__ __ __ Miniontoby: _____ |__| ____ _____/ |_ ____ _______/ |_ Miniontoby: / \| |/ \_/ __ \ __\/ __ \ / ___/\ __\ Miniontoby: | Y Y \ | | \ ___/| | \ ___/ \___ \ | | Miniontoby: |__|_| /__|___| /\___ >__| \___ >____ > |__| Miniontoby: \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 03:14:05: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/miniontoby/minetest/worlds/first] Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 03:14:05: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 209.141.38.137:30000. Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 03:14:06: ACTION[Server]: IRC: Connected! Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 03:14:06: WARNING[Server]: [monitoring] globalstep took 760045 us in mod irc Miniontoby: 2020-09-17 03:14:12: ACTION[Server]: IRC CHAT: -!- OrangeMt5-1 joined #miniontoby Miniontoby: this is it Miniontoby: with some irc errors but they arent a problem Miniontoby: block drop quick proto udp from any to $ext_ip Miniontoby: this is at end of firewall Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: minetest.orange.ircnow.org. 3600 IN A 209.141.38.137 Miniontoby: is dns record Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 11I​hrFussel: imo it was not the smartet decision to choose a OS not many know/understand probably 11I​hrFussel: It's definitely not one of the more popular ones Miniontoby: pass in on egress proto tcp from any to any port 30000:30303 \ Miniontoby: rdr-to $ext_ip Miniontoby: maybe this is a good pf thing 11I​hrFussel: Contact your system administrator if you have no FULL control over the OS Miniontoby: I have doas Miniontoby: I can do whatever I want Miniontoby: but I dont want to messup 11I​hrFussel: Then DISABLE THE FIREWALL Miniontoby: NO Miniontoby: THEN RELAYD NOT WORK 11I​hrFussel: And see if that fixes it Miniontoby: AND 70 users gets disconnected Miniontoby: from znc sfan5: maybe your firewall does not allow *from* port 30000 (minetest) to the internet Miniontoby: idk 11I​hrFussel: Then you will never know if the firewall is at fault Miniontoby: pass in is in it Miniontoby: pass out not Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 is up (160ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: WHAT THE HACK Miniontoby: without firewall Miniontoby: it works Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: ... Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: ... 11a​utomaton: as simple as adding a rule to the firewall now sfan5: "..." means the message is identical to the last one sfan5: so it's actually up 11a​utomaton: maybe firewalld 11a​utomaton: or ufw Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: no Miniontoby: it is pf Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 11I​hrFussel: Look up how to add a new rule for UDP to it Miniontoby: ok 11a​utomaton: pass in quick on proto udp from any to any allow out all 11a​utomaton: is a sample rule set that you can use Miniontoby: ok 11a​utomaton: actually, have the second line in the top of the file Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: ... 11a​utomaton: then, all outgoing data is allowed, but incoming data of udp protocol is allowed Miniontoby: down Miniontoby: I dont think they will agree Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: that's a terrible rule Miniontoby: read the faq 11a​utomaton: hmm true 11a​utomaton: it is quite insecure Miniontoby: im away dievri: hello. I would like to move entity from one position to another, and while entity moving, do not proceed with function execution. Is is possible1 dievri: ? rubenwardy: perhaps you want a coroutine? rubenwardy: coroutines are functions that can be paused, allowing you to write asynchronous code in a synchronous fashion rubenwardy: you can't stop the whole server whilst an entity is moving because the server must be running for an entity to move rubenwardy: what are you actually trying to do, dievri? dievri: I have my logic in separate function, I just want to stop execution of that only function while entity is moving dievri: actually, I have an array of static entities, and one entity which will be moving from one entity to another till the end jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: More Bread! [more_bread] V1.4.2 by Stix - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18508 jas_: nice rubenwardy: sounds like you want a coroutine then rubenwardy: unless by "stop" you mean don't run the function at all rubenwardy: in which case, a simple boolean would be enough rubenwardy: dievri dievri: hmm, looks like entity moving instantly from one position to another. I need movement to take about 2-3 second Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 12W​arr1024: Coros make the code for "pause this action while doing this other action" really nice and neat, but unfortunately they make serialization/staticsave a nightmare. Miniontoby: pass in quick proto udp to port { 30000 } Miniontoby: pass out quick proto udp to port { 30000 } rubenwardy: yeah, your code would have to recover from restart 12W​arr1024: Probably the cleanest way to do it while still allowing the entity to be saved/restored would be to track state in a variable, have one state for doing the beginning part of the action, one state for the movement, and one for the end part. sfan5: Miniontoby: what about "pass out quick proto udp from port { 30000 }"? sfan5: is that valid? Miniontoby: yes that is correct Miniontoby: jrmu Miniontoby: Miniontoby: good Miniontoby: that's correct rubenwardy: In RVWP, I don't bother to serialise any active actions. When the server restarts, the game AI just chooses an action, which is usually the same one Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) 12W​arr1024: To have an entity teleport to a spot, you can use set_pos() ... to have an entity slide into the new spot over the course of a split-second, there's move_to() ... to have an entity take several seconds to move, you'll have to set_velocity(), then wait for the entity to reach or go past that point, and I don't think it's possible to guarantee stopping it on time, so it may have to be set_pos()ed back into place if it needs to be MTDiscord: exact. Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: ... jas_: no parameter to move_to for how it takes to slide? :( jas_: i wanted to slow it down, but whatever 12W​arr1024: Check for a parameter but I don't remember one 12W​arr1024: I thought it took one step. eraldev: !up mt.lpki.org:30000 MinetestBot: mt.lpki.org:30000 is up (40ms) (IPv4) dievri: so, I should use set_velocity instead of move_to? rubenwardy: yeah, or you can use move_to frequently rubenwardy: like, in smaller steps rubenwardy: I don't think any is necessarily better Miniontoby: nc -z minetest.orange.ircnow.org 29999-30001 Miniontoby: nope 12W​arr1024: set_velocity will produce a smoother motion, since the client should be able to accurately predict movement, whereas move_to may be jerky, esp. over a jittery network. move_to will be easier to stop at some exact spot, though, whereas set_velocity might overshoot, possibly even badly if the speed is high enough, and you may have to jump back. 12W​arr1024: Unless you have some hard barrier against multiplayer use, you always need to consider how things will break down, and try to make it as graceful as you can, over a crappy network. rubenwardy: move_to is better for quick direction changes rubenwardy: set_velocity better for smoother motion dievri: finally, entity is moving ^_^ dievri: now I need some way to stop it from the moving) jas_: ))))) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) dievri: should I use minetest.after to check entity position? eraldev: How can I get online player count, like a http://servers.minetest.net/ ? eraldev: I want a write count players on my website Miniontoby: I got idea Miniontoby: you can use monitoring mod Miniontoby: let me show what I mean Miniontoby: https://miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:3001/d/YUpouLmWk/minetest?orgId=1&refresh=5s Miniontoby: chech this Miniontoby: there are 2 player things atm Miniontoby: BuckarooBanzai: wrote it Miniontoby: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22473 Miniontoby: it send the info to an pushgateway Miniontoby: where you can receive the info Miniontoby: and just sort it and get the player cound Miniontoby: and just sort it and get the player count eraldev: I dont need to setup a grafana? rubenwardy: you don't need a mod rubenwardy: Minetest supports postgresql rubenwardy: err rubenwardy: promethues eraldev: I am use sqlite( eraldev: hm rubenwardy: I didn't mean postgresql, I meant to type prometheus rubenwardy: prometheus is statistics gathering software, for time series rubenwardy: you can use it to power player count graphs rubenwardy: if you only ever want the current number of players, you can tail debug.txt rubenwardy: or use the server list eraldev: How i can connect, using prometheus? I can use python for a connect and fetch the data?? eraldev: * How i can connect, using prometheus? I can use python for a connect and fetch the data? Miniontoby: just read docs Miniontoby: You dont have to setup grafana Miniontoby: you can just use prometheus Miniontoby: or just if you want to use mine Miniontoby: I got a script Miniontoby: it installs from github Miniontoby: and uses my one Miniontoby: then I can make you a code Miniontoby: which can get it Miniontoby: do: wget https://miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org:443/my.domain/mtmonitoringinstaller2.sh (inside your minetest folder) Miniontoby: chmod 777 mtmonitoringinstaller2.sh Miniontoby: and then just run Miniontoby: ./mtmonitoringinstaller2.sh Miniontoby: then just enable monitoring mod Miniontoby: and then Miniontoby: just (re)start world eraldev: thank you very much) Miniontoby: np eraldev: !up mt.lpki.org MinetestBot: mt.lpki.org:30000 is up (39ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: I will see yours Miniontoby: but it doesnt matter Miniontoby: I hope Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: I dont see yours just yet 11a​utomaton: btw your shell script is specefic to our server, and is not a generic one Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: at your minetest.conf Miniontoby: add Miniontoby: monitoring.prometheus_push_url = http://orange.ircnow.org:9091/metrics/job/minetest/instance/ Miniontoby: and to sercure.http_mods Miniontoby: add Miniontoby: monitoring Miniontoby: eraldev: Miniontoby: I dont see it yet Miniontoby: and to secure.http_mods Miniontoby: add Miniontoby: monitoring rubenwardy: No need to use monitoring if you have 5.3.0 rubenwardy: well, custom stats I guess eraldev: rubenwardy: Miniontoby thank you very much) Miniontoby: oh yeah I saw it rubenwardy: that mod is still useful if you want custom stats, aren't using 5.3.0, and can't compile yourself Miniontoby: hmm rubenwardy: the repo / binaries of Minetest won't have prometheus support enabled, you'll need to enable and rebuild Miniontoby: I dont care rubenwardy: no need to be rude Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: just remove the mod then rubenwardy: pushgateway is the wrong way to prometheus as well, it's convenient but I've found it makes stats weird Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: help eraldev Miniontoby: your self Miniontoby: then Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) eraldev: !up mt.lpki.org MinetestBot: mt.lpki.org:30000 is up (43ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) eraldev: this bot can in ipv6? Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) eraldev: !up mtv6.lpki.org MinetestBot: mtv6.lpki.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) eraldev: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: !up minetest.orange.ircnow.org MinetestBot: minetest.orange.ircnow.org:30000 is up (161ms) (IPv4) adfeno: Hi there, I have a mate that runs a public Minetest server, but announcing makes his server crash with: ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (HTTP 405). How to fix this? rubenwardy: 405 = Method not allowed rubenwardy: that's not an error emitted by the server list program rubenwardy: could there be a page in the way, like a wifi access portal page or something? rubenwardy: sfan5 is the one to talk to about the serverlist sfan5: hi adfeno: Hi there sfan5 :) Krock: adfeno: server version? adfeno: Krock: I'll ask the responsible person. Krock: just checking whether it's due to a recent change, or whether it's a setup issue adfeno: Unfortunatelly I cannot give useful answers immediately due to the fact that the person still doesn't use neither IRC nor XMPP (the only multi-client and truly open standard I know for instant messaging besides SMS/MMS). Our communications is mostly through email . adfeno: s/standard/standards/ Krock: https://webchat.freenode.net/#minetest it's not complicated. It would really help if they could join the channel to troubleshoot such issues quicky 05t​woelk: or use the discord bridge as of lately 😛 Krock: ah right eraldev: !up mt.lpki.org MinetestBot: mt.lpki.org:30000 is up (43ms) (IPv4) specing: rubenwardy: have you considered making the ctf mode more battle royale-ish? specing: rubenwardy: we are just discussing this on #libregamenight Krock: add potions specing: I've tried rubenwardy's CTF server, and while I liked the idea, the implementation feels "clunky" specing: the gun physics are ... weird to say the least rubenwardy: I no longer develop CTF specing: there's also little teamwork, it seems more like 2-team FFA specing: oh well specing: rubenwardy: what are you working on these days? The CTF server is quite populated 10J​ordach: allow me to introduce myself rubenwardy: my own stuff, mostly not Minetest-related specing: Jordach what are you working on? 10J​ordach: Best I have to hand are god 10J​ordach: Gifs 10J​ordach: Thanks phone Calinou: specing: people used to play Hunger Games a lot on Minetest Calinou: (like in Minecraft) Calinou: it fell out of fashion over time though Calinou: Hunger Games is pretty much reversed battle royale :P 10J​ordach: specing, https://gfycat.com/welloffillfatedemperorshrimp specing: Jordach cool, but it needs: more detail, tracer rounds specing: Jordach: have you tried just ripping off the gun models from e.g. Xonotic or Unvanquished? Jordach: it already has tracers Jordach: https://gfycat.com/flawlessnegativebaiji Jordach: specing, ^ 10L​efty: >what in Minetest is NOT a PITA? @Wuzzy@IRC#0000 ain't that the truth 06h​oodedice: imagine using irc in 2020 06h​oodedice: This meme brought to you by the gang 03E​lCeejo: @Jordach bruh I can't still message here 03E​lCeejo: :fixbug: 03E​lCeejo: @GreenXenith Jordach didn't mute me properly 11G​reenXenith: Would you like to have it extended? 03E​lCeejo: No 10L​efty: ah yes, the classic "mute role being overwritten by another role in a certain channel" 11G​reenXenith: Immersion: Broken 13j​Snake04: sucks when your mute breaks lol Norkle: vote trump! 11J​onathon: well....uh ok then 08a​ppguru: vote this-is-channel-has-nothing-to-do-with-politics 06h​oodedice: imagine voting at all in $CURRENT_YEAR jas_: hi jas_: democracy is a fine ideal MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: lua_api.txt: author, release and title fields when downloading from C… 13c8303f7 https://git.io/JUB5T (152020-09-16T13:47:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up server-side translations, remove global variable (#10075) 139ec75d7 https://git.io/JUB5G (152020-09-16T13:51:11Z) 13G​enshin: Hi, how about "No" to politics? 13G​enshin: What's new on Minetest IRC? jas_: discord jas_: !server Lavaland MinetestBot: jas_: Lavaland | lavaland.duckdns.org:30001 | Clients: 3/9, 1/3 | Version: 5.4.0-dev / jastest | Ping: 137ms jonadab: I am fine with voting. People who feel strongly about political issues, when given the opportunity to vote on them, are not wrong to go ahead and do so. jonadab: Especially if they take the trouble to do some relevant research and vote intelligently. placeholder_name: So I've run into a wall, figuratively speaking. I've figured out how to change my character's skin, but not hand. How would I resolve this? placeholder_name: I know what file to replace, but I'm not certain as to how to make the hand match the look of the third person body. 12W​arr1024: If you have custom per-player skins then you'll probably need a coresponding custom per-player hand, which will also need to be registered at startup time 12W​arr1024: unlike player entities, nodes and wielditems have to be pre-registered placeholder_name: Yeah, unfortunately while I figured that out and found the hand skin, wieldhand.png, I don't know how to take the skin and make a hand matching in appearance. placeholder_name: Not sure the best way to phrase my problem, but in short, I'm not sure what the hand image should look like, where each pixel should go. 11G​reenXenith: placeholder_name: If you use a mesh for the hand then you can just UV map the skin onto the hand mesh 11G​reenXenith: For my server I just used a cubic hand, similar to Minecraft .. easier to map placeholder_name: I think I figured it out and made it with GIMP, just need to load it up. placeholder_name: there was an attempt. placeholder_name: Can someone please show me an example 1st person hand? I can easily work from there. placeholder_name: Hello delta, surprised to see you here. Thought you mostly worked on Mindustry stuff. :P specing: Has anyone thought about a proper GUI library instead of the formspecs? specing: something like SpringRTS's chiliui or freeorions libgigi? specing: the former is done in lua itself rubenwardy: none of the existing GUI libraries are any good specing: rubenwardy: chili is not? specing: you've evaluated it? rubenwardy: I've evaluated quite a few, but not that one rubenwardy: it looks like it hasn't been updated since 2016 rubenwardy: and there's only 16 stars specing: check gajop's repo rubenwardy: is this actually included in the spring sourcecode? specing: he's maintaining it specing: no specing: it's included in the game repos of the games that use it rubenwardy: there are two different problems that need to be solved - the API and the actual UI rubenwardy: formspecs are an API rubenwardy: they're currently implemented using the Irrlicht GUI library rubenwardy: a lot of the problem with formspecs is actually with formspecs and not Irrlicht GUI, although Irrlicht GUI isn't that great either specing: chili uses opengl api exported to lua specing: and provides an api of its own rubenwardy: yeah, but that only really helps on the client specing: hmm? rubenwardy: The Lua API almost definitely won't work over the net. That being said, it is good to have Lua bindings for the client - makes it easier to make custom components rubenwardy: I like the look of nanogui, I need to check it out some itme rubenwardy: if spring itself is still actively developed and they heavily depend on chiliui then that's good rubenwardy: The current plan is to pull in Irrlicht GUI into our code base - like supertuxkart rubenwardy: and have a Lua DSL API which uses JSON over the network rubenwardy: that would work best if we can pull in the work supertuxkart has done specing: rubenwardy: spring itself is just an engine. It provides a basic drawing API to games rubenwardy: So chiliui is a third-party library? specing: games ship chiliui/redui/... to provide a high-level widget api specing: yes, but no (it is developed by the same people that work on the engine and games) MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Sep-11 17:08 UTC 2020-09-11 19:07:30: WARNING[Server]: Deprecated usage of statbar without size! (at minetest_hudbars/init.lua:232) Wuzzy: Krock: 🙁 Krock: Wuzzy: 🎃🎉 Wuzzy: i hate this Wuzzy: Krock: also, can't reproduce. context? Krock: please give me your wayback time machine... I also need to figure out Wuzzy: lol Wuzzy: i believe i already had this bug before, and fixed it since then. maybe u used an ancient version? Wuzzy: either that, or the bug crept back in Krock: clone up to date, commit 0684bac45b Krock: can reproduce with only hudbars enabled Wuzzy: thats not up-to-date 😀 Wuzzy: a250d2a350cbc20dac030437266ccb1f825d72c9 Wuzzy: ↑ latest commit Wuzzy: latest version = 2.2.0 Wuzzy: 2.2.2* Krock: Date: Sat Jul 11 03:41:09 2020 +0200 Version 2.3.1 Krock: the future is now Krock: v2.2.0 of hudbars was commit 2ffcd94 Wuzzy: still not reproducible Wuzzy: mt 5.3.0, hb v2.3.1 Krock: hudbars_bar_health.png hudbars_bar_breath.png are the images used for the HUDs.. probably a builtin problem then.. Krock: no, "bar_size" is "Intentionally set to nil. For some reason, on some systems, the progress bar is displaced when the bar_size is set explicitly here. [...]" Krock: hmmm Wuzzy: well i DO set size to nil intentionally Wuzzy: 220 -- NOTE: Intentionally set to nil. For some reason, on some systems, Wuzzy: 221 -- the progress bar is displaced when the bar_size is set explicitly here. Wuzzy: 222 -- On the other hand, setting this to nil is deprecated in MT 5.0.0 due to Wuzzy: 223 -- a debug log warning, but nothing is explained in lua_api.txt. Wuzzy: 224 -- This section is a potential bug magnet, please watch with care! Wuzzy: 225 -- The size of the bar image is expected to be exactly 2×16 pixels. Wuzzy: 226 Krock: yes thanks. I also found that. trying to figure out why that's a problem Wuzzy: so its an ugly workaround to an ugly minetest bug 🙁 unless it got fixeed in 5.3.... Wuzzy: i didnt get the warning tho Wuzzy: well the whole progress bar idea in hudbars is a giant hack anyway. I hope it can be moved to the engine one day. engine would be able to render progress bars much more accurately anyway Krock: except that the HUD API is a PITA too Wuzzy: haha. Wuzzy: what in Minetest is *NOT* a PITA? Wuzzy: 😛 Krock: player database migration 10J​ordach: Using mods that don’t sanity check for nil 10J​ordach: coughs in hud bars general direction Wuzzy: Jordach: I know. but i had no other choice in this case 🙁 Wuzzy: I have the choice of either using a deprecated but functional mode, or a non-deprecated mode that is proven to break hudbars on Windows but not GNU/Linux... Wuzzy: i have long given up in finding a solution for that one, tbh Jordach: but windows dpi is now 9y Jordach: 96 Wuzzy: Jordach: Oh, so it is consitent with Linux? Does it mean I can safely set size again? Jordach: yes Wuzzy: ohhhhhhhhhhh Wuzzy: thanks!! Jordach: what is reading the changelog Wuzzy: i did Wuzzy: but i must have forgotten about this Wuzzy: too many changes lol Menchers: lol, a forum thread I made in 2012 is linked to from the wiki page for setting up a server Menchers: that was, like, the 0.2.x Menchers: is a tad out of date 10J​ordach: hello Menche Menchers: hi Menchers: another name I remember from way back :D Jordach: also in more than one place swift110: hey all juscool: hello everyone, how are you all? phoenix_: Hello . Im on ubuntu xenial, with latest MInetest (from ppa) . My question is howto start or create an offline world that has ONLY, a platform,for example ? Worlds are always gigantic on creation. I only want a platform that I can later increase,make as I want. Thanks phoenix_: When I say platform,I mean like a physical plane..could be even a few blocks in size 03N​oodlemire: There is sinhlenode mapgen. It only gives you one block to stand on, but you can just build off of it. phoenix_: Aha,from map type . I see,thanks. One more question . Can I invite later on a friend or two to participate in building my world ? And how exactly can I do that ? Many thanks phoenix_: PS> tried singlenode. Its just me and the sky,it seems. I fall continuosly into the abiss of nowhere ^^ 03N​oodlemire: There's a "host server" checkbox you can toggle at any time before starting the game. Emerald2: That's weird. You should have spawned on top of a block. Emerald2: You can also use the worldedit mod to edit in a platform. Emerald2: And give yourself fly and other privs. 03N​oodlemire: I tried my own single node world, fell down too. phoenix_: I dont think I know howto use mods..just discovered minetest phoenix_: nor howto give myself fly right Emerald2: Type /grant singleplayer fly 05t​woelk: if you start a singleplayer world type /grantme all into chat Emerald2: ^or that 05t​woelk: is faster when falling pyrollo: singlenode does not mean a unique block at the center, it means map generation uses a single node (air). Emerald2: You can install mods from the content tab in the client. pyrollo: You need fly privilege (/grantme fly) and Worldedit mod to create stuff phoenix_: I see,thanks..will look for that mod phoenix_: worldedit by sfan5 05t​woelk: singlenode is mostly used by games and mods that use their own magen Emerald2: Yeah or just some platforms in the sky, like Inside the Box, with other areas created as needed. Emerald2: What kind of platform do you want, just stone? phoenix_: yeah twoelk: if you want to start from nothing you can use the origin mod by wuzzy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11156 phoenix_: stone or concrete would be fine. phoenix_: I saw some people creating even cities from scratch Emerald2: With worldedit you want to set an area to be filled with nodes with //1 at one corner than //2 at the opposing. Emerald2: \ twoelk: or spawn builder Emerald2: Wow I need a reboot lol. Lagging. Emerald2: Then you can say //set stone Emerald2: iirc :) phoenix_: ty Emerald2: If that doesn't work, feel free to yell at me for my bad memory. :p Emerald2: Oh and you can unmark worldedit regions with //umk 04L​one_Wolf: THat just hides them btw 04L​one_Wolf: //rst will completely remove the region 13G​enshin: How's minetest-irc doing? Elon_Sat0shi: Hello Elon_Sat0shi: Does Minetest automate commiting translations from Weblate, at all? sfan5: no, we do it manually before a release Elon_Sat0shi: Huh. I've been translating Nodecore to Spanish, and warr and I were wondering if there was a way to automate adding it to the code. sfan5: how do you even do that when client-side translations don't use weblate? Krock: intllib supports weblate .po IIRC sfan5: but to the point: I think you can configure weblate to automatically push your repo sfan5: or maybe set up a script to do so Elon_Sat0shi: Thanks! I found something in weblate's faq that might help: https://docs.weblate.org/en/weblate-3.10/faq.html#how-to-create-an-automated-workflow uhrenmacher: ks afd_beste1: ls Krock: pwd MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove "generate normal maps" feature (#10313) 13fcff9f2 https://git.io/JU4cn (152020-09-14T17:27:25Z) 13G​enshin: tbh generate normal maps just makes things look awkward 13G​enshin: Also if you are using high res textures for entities Krock: because it's not a trained AI which would do that "properly" 13G​enshin: Yeah X) 13G​enshin: Normalmap usage is always cool imo 13G​enshin: Though lighting is currently a problem 13G​enshin: But that's okay 13G​enshin: Hopefully later in the future it get's solved, im pretty sure there are alot more important things to patch or implement Elon_Sat0shi: Has Minetest been translated to Lojban yet? Krock: cannot find it here: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/minetest/minetest/ Krock: neither to Klingon jonadab: ... but Esperanto is 98% complete. uhrenmacher: ehm...what is papyrus good for? 11J​onathon: Paper if i recall correctly Unit193: In ancient times it was used for paper, so that'd make sense. One can also make a decent tea with it. uhrenmacher: ah..ok ty jas_: hi tenplus1 jas_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d7djda1Kfk Krock: HU HU HU jumping :'D 10J​ordach: Are we playing quake Ruslan1: hi 11I​hrFussel: Someone on my server found a 200x200 sand cube mid air and punched it...now the server floods my log with Server::ActiveObjectMgr::addActiveObjectRaw(): no free id available and is unreachable...does anyone know if it will eventually recover from this? VanessaE: it should, but you can speed it along if you massively increase the entities per block limit VanessaE: max_objects_per_block = nnnn VanessaE: in your .conf VanessaE: set that, restart, let them accumulate, then /clearobjects, and revert that setting (just schedule it for the next restart) 11I​hrFussel: Okay wait...the process doesn't react to my 'killall minetestserver' and I just realized that VanessaE: it'll quit gracefully if you SIGINT it; idk what killall's default signal is 11I​hrFussel: Default seems to be SIGTERM VanessaE: (you can always KILL it if you're forced to of course, but that may not be desirable) 11I​hrFussel: I'm afraid of data corruption 11I​hrFussel: We're talking a 74 GB map here 11I​hrFussel: I'll try to kill -9 it I guess VanessaE: just INT it in a loop every 1s for a while, see if you can get it to quit gracefully 11I​hrFussel: It worked! VanessaE: :D 13G​enshin: Hello fellas 11I​hrFussel: I was able to join after the restart and added an ABM that gets rid of all sand nodes...thanks for your help erstazi: What are the best ways to check & replace empty passwords with postgres and 5.3.0? There are old accounts that used empty passwords from 3 years ago when empty passwords were allowed. sfan5: if those are SRP passwords you'd need some external program to test if they are empty sfan5: which is ... not easy erstazi: sfan5: they are SRP passwords erstazi: sfan5: thank you for your reply. This has been an issue for the server for quite some time and I want to help the server owner rectify it sfan5: maybe do it from lua then sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4712 erstazi: sfan5: ah, from a lua environment, iterate over the usernames as a table sfan5: well not any lua environment, but Minetest's erstazi: I understand now, thank you erstazi: Like CSM? erstazi: or server mod? sfan5: has to be the server-side environment erstazi: sfan5: thank you, I will dig into this erstazi: also, I want to say thank you to all the devs for their work on 5.3.0 and beyond! Lots of amazing approvements and bug fixes! jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: EarthCraft by FlameFireling - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21447 08f​reshreplicant: This is the code I'm looking at adapting - in testing I got it to work for anything called 'sword' with my own sounds. But there' so many if statements, that set up the ability to toggle sound on and off, that I'm not sure where to put in extra if else statements, e.g. to detect if something fleshy is being hit, an object, or nothing. 08f​reshreplicant: https://github.com/sirken/laser_mod/blob/master/init.lua Krock: for _, player in ipairs(minetest.get_connected_players()) do Krock: a bit faster than callbacks on join/leave plus manual list Krock: > , e.g. to detect if something fleshy is being hit, Krock: weird. I thought there was some builtin code to damage swords when entities are hit 08f​reshreplicant: I think I'll strip out the toggling sound part, because if the mod will be primarily sound based at first, there's no point if people can toggle it off. dievri: Good evening! Today i'm testing NPC framework. I set walk position, the NPC is going to this point, and then returning. Why it can be? 08f​reshreplicant: It has achieved conciousness. 08f​reshreplicant: The singularity. Nicomem141: Hello Guys, Nicomem141: Where are the user passwords stored? pyrollo: Hi, Depends on the auth backend pyrollo: Either in a text file or a sqlite db Krock: just browser your world's directory pyrollo: Hi Krock Krock: hi pyrollo uhrenmacher: Hello People! jas_: hi uhrenmacher: I just began to play this game uhrenmacher: hello jas_: you like it? uhrenmacher: yeah, it is awesome. the amount of mods really suprised me uhrenmacher: tbh the greatest motivation to play this game was that it is completely open source jas_: yeah that's great jas_: lots of content, fun to mod uhrenmacher: How yeah, normally I do not play that much games, but this is really good...and the IRC is not that incative as well uhrenmacher: I am glad to see someone on the IRC jas_: they linked it to a discord i guess jas_: and some servers are also linked to irc 12a​ndysphinx: hello from the discord! I am also new jas_: the forum is nice, and github repo has a lot of activity jas_: also minetest.reddit.com if you like that jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: SharpNet.Cz | 37.143.112.79:3000 | Clients: 0/99, 0/0 | Version: 5.4.0-6dcc9e633 / minetest | Ping: 25ms jas_: nice uhrenmacher: I am not on reddit, at least I do not have an account there, but the Discord is good jas_: i heard a lot of good things about nodecore, did you play it? uhrenmacher: actually not jas_: hm, i need to learn blender :'( jas_: !mod nodecore MinetestBot: jas_: NodeCore by Warr1024 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24857 - https://gitlab.com/sztest/nodecore jas_: !title https://youtube.com/watch?v=QlGaV4b9cAw MinetestBot: No title found. specing: Does anyone know if there is a keybind that drops only one item from a stack? q drops the whole stack specing: or is there a way to rebind q to only drop one item? heavygale: hold shit? or control? while dropping,… heavygale: can'T say for sure which it is heavygale: maybe alt? :D heavygale: *shit=shift :D :D specing: heavygale: ah indeed that works, thanks Krock: Alt+F4 04L​one_Wolf: Ctrl+Alt+f4 on Linux 11G​reenXenith: Its Alt+F4 on all systems Krock: even those with altered hotkeys 11G​reenXenith: Is there a callback for when the server itself is loaded? on_mods_loaded is called before the server is loaded, and it seems that is the case for the minetest.after queue as well 11G​reenXenith: Or at least some event that cant/doesnt happen until the server is up Krock: minetest.after is triggered by globalstep 11G​reenXenith: Which is why I thought it would work Krock: on_mods_loaded comes before the content is initialized 11G​reenXenith: right 11G​reenXenith: and I want a hook for after content is initialized 11G​reenXenith: I thought that the server step process didnt start until after the server was loaded and content was initialized Krock: callback is run here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server.cpp#L410 11G​reenXenith: The server environment doesnt initialize until after media is cached Krock: which makes sense 11G​reenXenith: therefore globalsteps and .after shouldnt run until after media is cached 11G​reenXenith: Unless media caching is sync 11G​reenXenith: async* Krock: single-threaded until everything's set up 11G​reenXenith: Well I am not experiencing this behavior I am seeing 11G​reenXenith: I am writing some media in a mod and then removing it in a .after hook to load the media and then remove it, and the client media loading hangs if the .after delay is too low Krock: how do you remove media? 11G​reenXenith: Just removing the files using os.remove .. in theory it should already be cached Krock: the texture name is cached and its hash value Krock: but the file contents aren't 11G​reenXenith: Are they cached once read? Krock: probably, but better don't rely on that so that unused media can unloaded by the client somewhen Krock: to truely remove media once it's no longer needed in the game session 11G​reenXenith: Makes sense .. that means I should either do it in an on_shutdown hook or dynamically make a worldmod dievri: hello. Is there any function like minetest.register_globalstep, but which is called not so often, perhaps 3-5 seconds dievri: ? 11G​reenXenith: the worldmod method may be better that way the mod wont have conflicts if used by two servers simultaneously 11G​reenXenith: dieveri: You can use a globalstep and only call your desired code every 3-5 seconds by using a timer variable incremented with the globalstep dtime 11G​reenXenith: If you dont want to register a globalstep, you can use a recursive minetest.after function which will add to the already-existing minetest.after queue 11G​reenXenith: dievri* Krock: which causes a stack overflow after some thousands of years of server uptime Krock: or no 11G​reenXenith: It shouldn't Krock: it's not recursive, so that won't happen 11G​reenXenith: its only "recursive" 11G​reenXenith: (emphasis on the quotes) dievri: minetest.after called just once? 11G​reenXenith: Correct, inside your "recursive" function 11G​reenXenith: something like local function yourfunction() --[[do stuff]]-- minetest.after(3, yourfunction) end yourfunction() dievri: sounds good, I will try this dievri: cool, this is exactly what I needed. thank you 13G​enshin: Howdy jas_: Jordach: it didn't work Jordach: what didnt jas_: your formatting dievri: hello. In npcf mod, selection box of the NPC half way lower than NPC. How to fix this? Krock: !tell Wuzzy 2020-09-11 19:07:30: WARNING[Server]: Deprecated usage of statbar without size! (at minetest_hudbars/init.lua:232) MinetestBot: Krock: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around Krock: dievri: update the mod or look for patches in the repository jas_: that mod could use some updating Krock: !mod mobf jas_: npcf from animals modpack? MinetestBot: Krock: Traders [mobf_trader] by Sokomine - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9013 - https://github.com/Sokomine/mobf_trader jas_: oh oh Krock: !mod npcf MinetestBot: Krock: Larry Builder [schemlib_builder_npcf] by bell07 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18085 - https://github.com/bell07/minetest-schemlib_builder_npcf jas_: neat Krock: I assumed mobf, but dunno about npcf -> that doesn't have models at all jas_: looked like character.b3d judging from the sitting/laying animations jas_: github.com/stujones11/minetest-models is a good place to go for models offset jas_: oh, i get it. why would the model be offset if there's no included model Krock: wrong collision box jas_: right on dievri: which values should I use for collision box? dievri: default is collisionbox = {-0.35,-1.0,-0.35, 0.35,0.8,0.35}, Krock: {-0.35,0,-0.35, 0.35,1.8,0.35} Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! dievri: Krock, works perfectly! Krock: yay Nicomem141: Hello Guys! Krock: hi Nicomem141: I am new to the MineTest community. I'm a school teacher and I'm working with MineTest this year. 04L​one_Wolf: Are you in America or somewhere else? specing: Nicomem141: hello specing: are you planning to use it in education or just for fun? Nicomem141: specing Hello! For Education. We have a server for each class Nicomem141: and depending on the age of the students the servers are closed at one hour or another, so that they do not go to sleep late... they can play from home and there are many classes that are given using this tool. Nicomem141: using MineTest specing: Interesting Nicomem141: I have found the Whitelist mod to be able to restrict access to each class and with the password command I will change each student's password and send it to them individually. 12W​arr1024: https://content.minetest.net/packages/rubenwardy/classroom/ rubenwardy: not supported by it yet rubenwardy: it can be useful though rubenwardy: !mod [edutest] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: EDUtest [edutest] by zeuner - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18988 - https://github.com/zeuner/edutest-chatcommands rubenwardy: also exists Nicomem141: is there a list of all the mods that exist for minetest? 12W​arr1024: there is no single list of everything, but https://content.minetest.net/ is arguably the most "official" now 12W​arr1024: it's the same content you can find in the in-game content browser heavygale: that's not possible as at least i made a mod thats not published anywhere :D 12W​arr1024: Even for mods intentionally publicized, there are a few different places. The forums are another place, though I guess that's becoming a bit "legacy" with ContentDB taking over the main role. Some stuff is only ever published on github/gitlab or other hosts and spread by word of mouth. rubenwardy: ContentDB is literally official, it's not "official" rubenwardy: ContentDB will also list mods on the forums when you search for them 12W​arr1024: Does it? I thought they had to go through review still 12W​arr1024: Well if it's a superset already then that's nice, no need to search the forums too... rubenwardy: see the bottom of this page: https://content.minetest.net/packages/?q=simple+mobs 12W​arr1024: Heh, that's pretty small, no wonder I didn't notice it before :-D ... I guess there's probably an argument that can be made about why it should remain much less prominent though... SoylentCow: 3nu, nature dievri: hello. There is minetest.find_path() for searching path, which can we walked. Is it any function, to find path between two position, which is in the air? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04semarie -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove Thread::kill() and related unittest (#10317) 133fb1f45 https://git.io/JUCgE (152020-09-10T10:19:18Z) 12W​arr1024: In my experience, when I wanted custom pathfinding, e.g. to find paths for things that had different capabilities like fitting in certain spaces or different kinds of movement, I've had to implement A* myself. It is reasonably efficient and you can reconstruct it from wikipedia. dievri: hello. I would like to change textures of a placed entity. How can I do this? sfan5: set_texture_mod 03N​oodlemire: Also set_properties({textures = {...}}) sfan5: oh yeah that is the more obvious one sfan5: no idea why I didn't think of that dievri: Will it affect all future placed entities as well? 04L​one_Wolf: Nop dievri: cool. Thanks! 04L​one_Wolf: btw: We usually say 'spawned' for entities 04L​one_Wolf: Otherwise it sounds like you 04L​one_Wolf: 're talking about nodes dievri: ok :) swift110: hey jas_: hi jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: [GD]Mini Mine Games -TEST- MMG | mmg.thkv.ru:30032 | Clients: 0/20, 0/1 | Version: 5.1.0-23bd563 / mmg | Ping: 50ms CraneZhou: !server MinetestBot: CraneZhou: LinuxGaming2.com | 45.33.54.11 | Clients: 0/16, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / lggame | Ping: 153ms Zughy: Hey there, sorry for the rush. Is there a way to avoid closing a formspec but with pressing a button inside it? I can't a find a way to avoid quitting it with Esc bdju: is there a mod that would allow watching videos in-game? like pulling up youtube on a virtual screen Zughy: bdju: I don't think so, but a guy had Chrome running inside Minetest https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=380303&sid=e8d0056d0c3e7a0d0fd8d9551ffca07d#p380303 bdju: .tell test bdju: is there a tell bot in here? bdju: anyway, that thing Zughy linked is cool, but I imagine it's a bit bloated for the purpose of video playback. something like ffmpeg would maybe be enough bdju: although a browser could be better in some ways, like showing someone searching through the videos instead of them just popping up suddenly sfan5: use !tell username message sfan5: there was a pull request with ffmpeg support for formspecs once 03s​hivajiva: @Zughy catch the escape from the form and reinstate it, as it's still triggers a callback event 03s​hivajiva: any mod that shows rules to a player will have the mechanism coded in for you to examine arydev: hello 11a​utomaton: I tried installing/downloading and playing mt on windoze, after 5 years of linux... I seem to be unable to type anything... the username and password for connecting a server seem to broken... i wonder if it could have anything to do with the localizations and all, but when i checked, it was all EN-IN, which worked fine on linux... tried redownloading, but without avail... any suggestions ? specing: go back to Linux specing: also stop using proprietary software (discord) ubone: what was the option to lower the game res (not the window res) jas_: undersampling 11a​utomaton: > go back to Linux rn that is not an option, also while open source is all well and good, i tend to choose the one that fits my needs well... 03s​hivajiva: first suggestion is to redownload it and reinstall, probably done that already though 03s​hivajiva: can you select servers, change tabs, alter setting or is it purely the text fields on the server page jas_: hi discord 11a​utomaton: hmm i am able to select servers, nut am unable to input any text 11a​utomaton: @shivajiva 03s​hivajiva: I suspect it will be the same in settings then, you won't be able to modify any text value, does seem input related on your system 03s​hivajiva: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/367sv7/problems_with_keyboard_control_on_windows/ 03s​hivajiva: seems related 03s​hivajiva: Hi jas 11a​utomaton: ty 08a​ppguru: How does Minetest map frame ranges to animations in seconds? sfan5: huh? 08a​ppguru: Minetest frame ranges are obviously not in seconds rubenwardy: using animation speeds and counts rubenwardy: *counter 08a​ppguru: ? rubenwardy: also, doesn't Irrlicht handle model animations? 08a​ppguru: How can I determine the current keyframe from range, frame_speed, frame_blend and frame_loop sfan5: range_min sfan5: oops sfan5: range_min + ((time / frame_speed) % (range_max - range_min)) probably 08a​ppguru: range.x = min and range.y = max I assume 08a​ppguru: Yeah but range_min is not in seconds :/ sfan5: why would it be in seconds? 08a​ppguru: Because glTF stores animation keyframes in seconds rubenwardy: it's in frames, that equation returns frames 08a​ppguru: in keyframes? 08a​ppguru: hmm, that makes it quite simple 08a​ppguru: thank you 08a​ppguru: zero-based or one-based? rubenwardy: don't think it matters? rubenwardy: range_min will be different then 08a​ppguru: well it matters because Lua lists are one-based rubenwardy: you can use the same equation either way. Just look at whether models themselves are 1 or 0 indexed SoylentCow: Draft:Minetest was in worse shape than i imagined lol SoylentCow: but now i removed all the junk refs, which is what was holding it up, the best i can tell SoylentCow: but it would be nice to find more notability hits SoylentCow: i doubt there's much more quality stuff in english or russian (still looking), but ain't there some reviews or art criticism in other languages?i hear minetest is big in europe too SoylentCow: i presume there are links from other language wikipedias, but i would not want to use them without knowing very well what the sources say rubenwardy: SoylentCow: why did you remove the CERN ref? It's a pretty significant one rubenwardy: The largest particle physics lab in the world is significant rubenwardy: https://home.cern/news/news/knowledge-sharing/craft-web-re-enact-invention-web Krock: rubenwardy: when is CTW finally done?? rubenwardy: same question for you MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Player_api: Various maintenance (#2737) 138d0fb34 https://git.io/JUcS7 (152020-09-09T17:11:25Z) rubenwardy: also, if you remove citations you should remove content Krock: :D expected that coming rubenwardy: You should go from reliable citations to content, not find citations for content rubenwardy: also game -> game engine (and game) Krock: relevant: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/citogenesis.png rubenwardy: exactly MinetestBot: 02[git] 04devnexen -> 03minetest/minetest: Add NetBSD cpu affinity support code (#10378) 130683bea https://git.io/JUcSN (152020-09-09T17:12:58Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04devnexen -> 03minetest/minetest: Darwin platform build fix (#10376) 1362913b8 https://git.io/JUcSA (152020-09-09T17:12:03Z) rubenwardy: SoylentCow: I also can't see google CTF there any more rubenwardy: Just remove minetest.net references, don't remove good references rubenwardy: Krock: we should probably arrange some sprints where we arrange some weekends to do this virtually. We did well when working on-site, but any activity off-site has slipped Krock: indeed SoylentCow: rubenwardy: it would never been accepted with garbage links SoylentCow: i did the link purge based on help i got from official helper at wikipedia irc SoylentCow: the guy actually read the article, pointed out garbage refs, and did best to explain what qulifies as good ref SoylentCow: at any rate, we got nothing to lose, it didn't look like previous attempts had any chance of success rubenwardy: CERN is not a garbage link SoylentCow: what we really need is a very specific kind of link: a critical review from an esteblied outfit/reviewer, or a scholarly article dealing mainly or significantly with minetest (i am not holding my breath for that one) SoylentCow: it is not a review or a criticism, so CERN link cannot work, this is not even my judgement rubenwardy: it's a citation that CERN is a user and created a game using it, that's pretty notable SoylentCow: i am working very hard to have this article get past review, and this was one of the no-nos they mentioned rubenwardy: did they specifically say that the link was a no-no? It's crazy to reject a new articles from a major organisation 11G​reenXenith: Wikipedia notability is bull rubenwardy: I think we should just give up on trying to get an article, they're clearly biased against us 11G​reenXenith: 100% biased and hypocritical rubenwardy: they're at least a ton more strick rubenwardy: *strict 11G​reenXenith: I can find hundreds of articles about games with 2 or less references and no content 11G​reenXenith: games youve never heard of rubenwardy: the thing is - existing articles like that is no excuse, but Minetest does have notability by their own definitions 11G​reenXenith: Draft:Minetest looks terrible now imo rubenwardy: The reason I recommend cutting out all content that is not directly cited is because it's better to have a smaller well cited article than a larger one with not enough citations 11G​reenXenith: The thing is that 90% of it was cited rubenwardy: a lot of .net citations 11G​reenXenith: What exactly is wrong with .net citations 11G​reenXenith: what does a site domain matter rubenwardy: first party citations are not reliable rubenwardy: minetest.net 11G​reenXenith: Oh, then say that 11G​reenXenith: And there werent 11G​reenXenith: When alistair and I went over it we removed all the .net citations 11G​reenXenith: so if there were any, someone added them later 11G​reenXenith: I wish we could blacklist reviewers 11G​reenXenith: If there is even a remotely clear bias, we should be allowed to request review from new reviewers 11G​reenXenith: So far the same person has been rejecting every time rubenwardy: maybe revert some of the changes and ask in #wikipedia 11G​reenXenith: Ive pretty much given up on it 11G​reenXenith: The grammar and sentence structure on the draft is pitiful 11G​reenXenith: there is a ton of uncited subjective information SoylentCow: look guys, no need to fume, i got this one SoylentCow: they said: no dev website, no wikis, nothing biased, better if professional review 11G​reenXenith: And those requirements were met when it was rejected 2 times ago SoylentCow: independent + professional is the only thing that really counts for notability SoylentCow: no, we keep getting rejected because there were too many low-quality refs SoylentCow: including the ones i put in recently, to git source and stuff, i removed them all now SoylentCow: i've been told in no uncertain terms: because it was already rejected based on notability, we need to make sure we only have good refs in there, because even one bad ref can trigger a rejection at this point SoylentCow: i do not believe the review is biased against us in any way, but i am fully prepared to deal with that if i get any evidence 11G​reenXenith: The references are so sparse now half the article isnt cited SoylentCow: that does not matter, i believe, not for notability purposees 11G​reenXenith: They care more about notability than they do about information citing? Thats backwards asf 11G​reenXenith: Wikipedia is supposed to care that the information can be cited by a second or third party, not that the second or third party is insanely notabl SoylentCow: it's not personal, at least i have no reason to believe it is 11G​reenXenith: +e 11G​reenXenith: watch it get rejected for lack of citations next SoylentCow: they will not be able to jerk me around, i am keeping track of everything now, including who is reviewing, what reasons they give,and how they handle intrawiki communication 11G​reenXenith: If I decide to go through and fix all of the formatting and wording sometime, do you want me to mark missing citations? SoylentCow: i don't think that's a good idea: are you trying to help to get it approved? why would you create doubt? rubenwardy: CERN is independent and professional SoylentCow: a news article with a mention is not a good ref SoylentCow: i've been told rubenwardy: CERN is independent and professional SoylentCow: is it a review? rubenwardy: It's a good article that cern is a user rubenwardy: there's a users section rubenwardy: it can go there SoylentCow: if it's not a critical review or a scholarly article where minetest is one of the main subjects, then we cannot use it to improve notability 11G​reenXenith: that is bs rubenwardy: doesn't matter, it should still be in the article rubenwardy: because it's relevant 11G​reenXenith: just because it isnt a review or article doesnt mean it cant be used 11G​reenXenith: information is information 11G​reenXenith: its a professional third party and thats that SoylentCow: it is pointless to argue on this one rubenwardy: i don't actually have a strong opinion, and they would tell you, read the policy, and i think their stance is reasonale 11G​reenXenith: Its not a policy 11G​reenXenith: no article follows that 11G​reenXenith: Citations do not have to be explicit review or criticism SoylentCow: but it was made crystal clear to me by one of the official wikipedia people that we need to remove those refs 11G​reenXenith: It is possible they didnt know that CERN is a professional source SoylentCow: so let's just go with that flow, and deal with issues one at at time, i told myself 11G​reenXenith: Rubenewardy: To be fair, we can always add it after its approved 11G​reenXenith: Rubenwardy* 11G​reenXenith: I can type SoylentCow: cern: just go to that page again: https://home.cern/news/news/knowledge-sharing/craft-web-re-enact-invention-web 11G​reenXenith: An article with 10 notable sources is still notable with 10 other not notable sources SoylentCow: it tells next to nithing about minetest 11G​reenXenith: It uh, doesnt need to 11G​reenXenith: the point is Minetest is in use SoylentCow: for notability, it would have to tell us about minetest quite a bit 11G​reenXenith: The education sources use minetest, they dont necessarily talk abou tit SoylentCow: no, the point of notability is not "in use", that's silly, the point is there must be independent, professional descriptions of the subject 11G​reenXenith: The citations given for uses in education say less about Minetest than the CERN article rubenwardy: citations are to prove facts, not the entire subject. The CERN citation proves that CERN is a user, and so should be included in that section SoylentCow: anyways, from where i stand, you guys could really help in at least one way: find high-quality other-language things similar to this: https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2017/204/Minetest 11G​reenXenith: Dude ive already tried that 11G​reenXenith: and I put as many as I could in there 11G​reenXenith: but they have been removed rubenwardy: by "typical indications of notability like reviews or significant critical commentary." they don't mean they all need to be that SoylentCow: rubenwardy: i understand what you are saying, but it is safer play, imho, to just axe it, at least for now, because reviewers will flag low-quality refs and we get notability rejection again rubenwardy: ok fine 11G​reenXenith: like I said, we can add the rest of the refs later rubenwardy: remove all the uncited stuff as well, as you'll have a similar problem SoylentCow: yes, GreenXenith, that's right 11G​reenXenith: which is why I asked if I should mark it as missing citations^^ 11G​reenXenith: so we know what needs removing and whatnot 11G​reenXenith: or should I just nuke stuff SoylentCow: GreenXenith: go ahead, mark them, i guess, wouldn't hurt SoylentCow: i will review and cull as needed after that 11G​reenXenith: rubenwardy: We have to get through the security checkpoint before we can add the water and hand sanitizer 11G​reenXenith: Feels backwards hypocritical unorganized and biased, but thats what you get to deal with in systems like this SoylentCow: GreenXenith: that link i posted, please check it out. it's nothing like refs i removed. it's a full-length professional critical review of the game in a printed journal. this is the quality we should be aiming for. 11G​reenXenith: You wont find many like it SoylentCow: yeah, it's hard, i wasn't able to match it yet rubenwardy: I find it frustrating that you need to make the article worse to jump through hoops SoylentCow: i share that frustration 11G​reenXenith: Yep 11G​reenXenith: It's entirely possible the system was built for articles that are much smaller than this one and arent as widespread yet 11G​reenXenith: Which seems silly, but its a plausible reason 11G​reenXenith: That or people have been working around the stupid system the whole time and you just never notice SoylentCow: what happened is very unfortunate. did it like get deleted at some point? 11G​reenXenith: It did 11G​reenXenith: But that was a very reasonable AfD rubenwardy: yeah, there was a super terrible article in ~2012 11G​reenXenith: Now that the game is 10 years old and has some notability, they probably wont be able to AfD it again SoylentCow: yeah, so that's the unfortunate thing; now we really have to jump through organizational hoops, and i would blame anyone in particular, like wikpedia, reviewers, or the people who penned the terrible first version Krock: AfD, the german politics party? Krock: or do you mean something else? SoylentCow: i found this cool link on russian minetest page: https://trashbox.ru/topics/110202/5-prichin-pochemu-besplatnyj-minetest-luchshe-minecraft 11G​reenXenith: Articles for Deletion SoylentCow: looks like a medium-length review of features by commercial website SoylentCow: actually has a lot of things specifically mentioned about techical details 11G​reenXenith: So really the big problem is that people were dumb and tried to make an article way too soon and caused problems for us 8 yeras later 11G​reenXenith: years* SoylentCow: and i know what you mean, how it's a load of bullshit, i mean, russian minetest page has this one reference of quality, plus a bunch of links to minetest wiki, and that's all Krock: people with an IQ above room temperature would notice that old reviews might not be that accurate any more SoylentCow: what we have in Draft:Minetest is already waaaay better referenced SoylentCow: notability and some SoylentCow: so i think we are moving in the right direction SoylentCow: hahahaha SoylentCow: i meant before, i would NOT blame anyone in particular 11G​reenXenith: A lot of Wikipedia reviewers probably live an a heavily air-conditioned basement, so room temperature may varry ;] SoylentCow: ok i am gonna jet, if you people dig up the reviews like these ones, just stick them into Draft or the talk page directly, and i'll take it from there Krock: interesting screenshots. would be cool to re-use them on the german page as well := Krock: I'd be really surprised if there's ever an English Wikipedia article about Minetest. Less notable projects have their own articles. Not acknowledging the work of a thousand people indicates a form of brigading to me Krock: s/people/contributors/ 12L​emente: Hey, I see you were talking about the wiki page! This year, if everything goes well, some schools in Paris will start using Minetest with the BIM (Building Information Modeling) as the subject, as well as the Olympic village. Maybe this will create some interesting references (especially since the project was created by the Centre Pompidou). I might also use Minetest for a small project in the Musée de Bretagne in Rennes. It MTDiscord: will be about the great fire of 1720. We are thinking about making people download and play Minetest on their own phones (so they don't have to touch anything, don't have to get too close to each other). 12L​emente: (don't hesitate to tag me even through IRC, @Lemente #3363 or even <@175278627796156416> should work) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3363 -- Support nested modpacks in mainmenu esperantoman: https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minetest esperantoman: ;) Darkwar: !up matrix.minecity.online MinetestBot: matrix.minecity.online:30000 is up (128ms) (IPv4) specing: Is replacing the node the only way to update textures? NathanS21: Yep, unless you want an animated texture, you can do that with a single node. ghoti: Is there a way to get minetest not to eat so much CPU? Debug tells me 100 to 200 FPS. That seems unnecessary. shangul: Now my bot framework can jump, go left/right/up/down and do this: http://92.222.41.125/users/farooqkz/Peek%202020-09-08%2008-51.webm 11J​onathon: 👍 that looks very nice shangul: :) 11J​onathon: is your framework public anywhere? dievri: hello. How can I treet a group of blocks as a one whole thing? shangul: Jonathon, No not yet. 03s​hivajiva: @dievri you should look at the methods used in worldedit dievri: hello. With entities, I can make parent-child relations with get/set_attach. Is is possible to somehow do this with nodes? sfan5: no dievri: than I should go with entities. Thanks dievri: falling entity falls through attached entities. Is it possible to avoid this? 03s​hivajiva: are you using physical = true in the initial properties for the entities? dievri: yes, they are physical. entities attached far from parent swift110: good morning folks 11J​onathon: shangul: ill be interested to see it if you do 11J​onathon: and good morning MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Inventory: Protect Craft and Drop actions (#10353) 130d128ab https://git.io/JUZ7R (152020-09-07T19:19:38Z) dievri: hello dievri: I trying to draw a filled circle. But if it's to big, just parts of them a drawn 12W​arr1024: you have to sharpen your pencil if it wears down dievri: I mean, with blocks and math formula sfan5: how exactly? dievri: for zed = -radius, radius do dievri: for eks = -radius, radius do dievri: if (eks*eks) + (zed*zed) <= ((radius * radius) + (radius * 1.2)) then dievri: minetest.set_node({x = x + eks, y = y, z = z + zed}, {name="default:dirt"}) dievri: end dievri: end dievri: end 12W​arr1024: what kinda radius are we talking here? 12W​arr1024: like, 10? 100? 1000? 12W​arr1024: if you try to set_node outside of the loaded areas then it won't work dievri: up to 100, various 12W​arr1024: 100 radius is probably large enough to hit unloaded areas dievri: than, what should I do? 12W​arr1024: you can detect unloaded areas because they have "ignore" nodes in them even though they're not past mapgen_limit sfan5: althought more complicated, try using a vmanip 12W​arr1024: you basically have to wait and then fill those areas once loaded 12W​arr1024: you can try to force-emerge them but that doesn't stop you from having to wait, I'm pretty sure 12W​arr1024: AND it can probably bog things down a lot 12W​arr1024: is this going to be based on some kind of in-game event or do you want circles filled right at map generation time? 12W​arr1024: doing this as lua mapgen seems like a sane way to do it. 12W​arr1024: if not, like if you have a "circle drawer tool" that draws a huge circle when you use it, you'll have to find a way to store any cicles you couldn't complete, and check them when mapblocks are loaded 12W​arr1024: I don't know of a way to detect when a mapblock is loaded. There are Loaded Block Modifiers, but unlike the name suggests, they work on NODES, not mapblocks dievri: circles with be created by chat command 12W​arr1024: so you need to be certain that there's at least one of a certain node inside each mapblock to be affected, and then any duplication would be at least a little inefficient. 12W​arr1024: congrats, I feel like you've got yourself a Hard Problem :-) 12W​arr1024: you can detect mapblocks being loaded by polling, if you have a list of all mapblocks that you need to modify specing: just draw the circle, then turn on fast, noclip and fly and run around it specing: then draw again specing: problem=solved dievri: how can I get a list of all mapblocks that I need to modify? 12W​arr1024: you just need to know 1 node position for each mapblock to test for ignores. mapblocks are 16x16x16, and it doesn't particularly matter which node you test, it'll be all or nothing 12W​arr1024: It is basically not possible to instantly fill in a space that's larger than the loaded area, so you'll have to do it piece at a time. It should be possible to make it happen automatically once you've issued the command, though it might not be particularly fast. 12W​arr1024: The ony alternative that I know, that would make it happen "instantly" from an in-game perspective, would be to shut down the server and modify the database directly. dievri: Right now things look complicated for me :0, so I need to brake them down bit by bit 12W​arr1024: easiest thing to do is before filling the circle, check and make sure there are no ignores in its area, and if you find any, reject the command and tell the player "radius too large, try something smaller" 12W​arr1024: then you just need to do the detection part, not the queueing part 12W​arr1024: see how ambitious you feel after having done that... dievri: right now, the circle is not being fully drawn even If I fly around 12W​arr1024: That's right. It's because at the time you try to draw it, some areas are not loaded and thus can't be modified, and you're only trying the one time, so if it partially fails, you aren't retrying it later when those parts could succeed. Darkwar: hello i making a new server and once i upload i want advertises it but idk where and anwers? Emerald2: Minetest forum topic for starters. dievri: hello. Today I'm trying to write my own authentication. I would like to store user password in plain form (not hashed). I'm defined get_auth and create_auth function and registered them as auth handler. But get_auth get called already with hashed password. How can I avoid hashing? 06j​akeh04: why would you avoid hashing? Ingar: easier to steal plaintext passwords from users guzzi: sounds illegal. 06j​akeh04: ah the ol logging into your user's bank accounts that reuse their passwords lol guzzi: you planning on creating a honeypot to try to get peoples passwords? guzzi: evil Ingar: imho, a bug if the mt client would actually accomodate sending plaintext passwords 06j​akeh04: yeah, let us know if you succeed so we can make an emergency release to fix the huge security flaw lol 03s​hivajiva: lmao 😂 ubone: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4N2ShXdMcT/ ubone: im trying to proxy minetest with nginx but connection fails guzzi: Ingar is probably creating a fork and then join the serverlist. guzzi: he wouldn't dare do a pull request guzzi: but he would still be able to collect passwords sfan5: there is no way for the server to get a plaintext password guzzi: I am sure if you forked the server too you could do it guzzi: Not sure how we could prevent this server from joining the list sfan5: no you can't guzzi: really? guzzi: i doubt that. sfan5: minetest uses SRP to securey do password authentication sfan5: the plaintext password is never sent sfan5: ubone: are you sure nginx isn't attempting a tcp connection? ubone: is minetest udp only? ubone: idk what nginx does, there's nothing in the logs sfan5: yes minetest is udp only guzzi: oh i see like private public key sorta. guzzi: srp is beyond my understanding, but basicaly the server never stores the users password. guzzi: one would have to completely overhaul the system. 06j​akeh04: or trick someone into using an evil client guzzi: right. you would need to redo the server to accept plain text passwords and store them . then also get the user to use your modified client. guzzi: that is a tough sell guzzi: I guess webapps dont have this issue since no client thus django just saves the hashed password guzzi: thanks sfan5, i learned something new guzzi: man, between here and NodeCore i learn so much 06j​akeh04: the browser is the client on the web and all the code that makes it works is downloaded from the server guzzi: right. thus no worry about saving a hashed password as much 06j​akeh04: there's still a lot of that stuff happenning on the web. same authentication ideas really. I'm sure you could make a website implement SRP 12W​arr1024: There's stuff like digest auth but nobody particularly cares about that kind of thing on the web. Digest auth was actually originally intended to solve more like 3rd party eavesdropping issues, which it actually doesn't solve, but TLS does. So everyone just does basic over TLS, or the moral equivalent with web forms. 06j​akeh04: is ssl/tls to slow for gaming? 12W​arr1024: Tbh I'd be more comfortable with MT sending plaintext passwords over a fully encrypted authenticated connection, as I'm already trained by the web not to reuse passwords, but the infrastructure to authenticate an MT server would probably be prohibitive. 12W​arr1024: There are datagram versions of TLS and modern TLS has something like a 1% overhead. OpenVPN is designed on I think a mix of IPSec and DTLS paradigms. 12W​arr1024: The problem though is establishing server identity and trust... 06j​akeh04: I can sell certs for 5.99 06j​akeh04: lol 12W​arr1024: Yeah, I mean, just having a central server authority in the first place is an undertaking, an possibly anathema to the kind of decentralization that MT probably wants to support. Trust on first use schemes are limited if you hop between clients, as users realistically don't compare fingerprints. 12W​arr1024: I suppose as it stands doing SRP over an encrypted connection to a TOFU-authenticated server to establish a session that is subsequently hard to hijack or snoop would be an improvement at least, but no small task. mtplayer: Hello! I'm playing Minetest on FreeBSD. (I'll admit, 5.2.0) Is it intentional that papyrus only grows on dirt and not on soil? I used the hoe on quite a bit of dirt earlier and noticed papyrus won't grow on it, but does grow on on-hoe'd dirt. mtplayer: on un-hoe'd dirt* 12W​arr1024: I had actually considered a way of tunneling MT connections over websockets as a means for people behind extremely restrictive firewalls (i.e. web browsing only) to self-host an MT server with the help of a host on the outside. 06j​akeh04: yeah but those kids in the school computer lab should be doing homework lol mtplayer: https://files.catbox.moe/0ilc2r.png 06j​akeh04: papyrus is setup to grow on regular dirt. i agree though, it should grow on hoed dirt too though 06j​akeh04: could open an issue on minetest game github repo if it bothers you enough mtplayer: won't make a github account, but if you guys have a mailing list, I'll send it that way mtplayer: or someone else can make the github issue :P 06j​akeh04: no likey github? mtplayer: n'aww, just won't make an account for a single issue is all mtplayer: if I was a dev in a project using GH I'd have one mtplayer: but email's just lower-effort for now 06j​akeh04: dunno about a mailing list 08a​ppguru: MTG is ded AFAIK 08a​ppguru: although this could be seen as a bug 12W​arr1024: I wouldn't file the issue. MTG isn't exactly "dead" but this doesn't sound like something that's clearly and undebatably a bug, and thus is likely not to get changed. 3rd party mods can also probably change this too, so that makes it less likely to be changed upstream... specing: Please stop using github. It makes no sense to me to use a proprietary software host to host development of a free software project specing: additionally, it is fast becomming a monopoly (if it isnt one already) specing: Also please stop using discord. Readings its ToS should provide you enough reason 12W​arr1024: haha, "it's a monopoly" i.e. "there's no competition" is a kinda paradoxical argument to make for "you should switch to a competitor," you have to admit... 12W​arr1024: if you don't like github I believe there are gitlab mirrors of all of the relevant MT projects somewhre 06j​akeh04: I like getting paid for work so I can't bash others that do the same 12W​arr1024: Dunno about access to the issues, but from my perspective I prefer to use pure git, so that projects are not vendor-locked-in by any service, whether they're open-source themselves or not, so I avoid using the issues features. specing: jakeh04 are you paid to work on Minetest? 12W​arr1024: Is anybody? specing: That comment made me think that jakeh04 is 08a​ppguru: Monte's staff prolly 06j​akeh04: hmm could make a jakehcraft fork lol 12W​arr1024: though you gotta admit that, again, "nobody is paid to do this stuff" does seem like a weird argument for "they should have higher standards about the services they use." 08a​ppguru: specing: There has been lotta discussion, conclusion being that migration is not worth the effort. There's a mirror on GitLab. As GitHub gets microsoftified, I might decide to switch. But ATM there's been no good reason for doing so. 12W​arr1024: git hub/lab can't really exercise lock-in over the repo contents, since that's plain git and easily portable/mirrorable. They CAN make you dependent on things like issue tracking, wikis, CI setups, integrations, etc. so I would definitely encourage projects to have a way to keep mirrors of that data and be prepared to move it if necessary. I don't really worry about whether the service is proprietary or not; in a way, gitlab is MTDiscord: big enough that I treat it as if some parts of it must be proprietary somewhere. Claims of purity are generally exaggerated :-) 06j​akeh04: That would be nice to get paid for mt stuff. It shall remain hobby effort until then and hobby stuff gets a lower priority than paid work and tends to be less polished because it is hobby work specing: W​arr1024 if they are easily portable then why aren't you moving away? 12W​arr1024: In a way not getting paid for MT stuff is kinda nice too, assuming you get paid for other stuff, as it helps keep MT stuff all about having fun and doesn't make it get too serious 08a​ppguru: Both GitHub and GitLab have a proper API, which means it should be fairly trivial to migrate. 08a​ppguru: specing: Because there's no hecking reason apart from FLOSS dogmatism 12W​arr1024: specing: I'm not moving away because ... I'm already fully moved away? 12W​arr1024: I host all my own projects in basically "pure git"; they're on gitlab, but I don't depend on any of the "lab" parts either. specing: Ok Warr1024 08a​ppguru: I will move away as soon as I can't put up with the changes for the worse MS is applying to GitHub anymore 12W​arr1024: As for the engine folks, they can do what they want too, but there's a heckuva lot of those folks so getting them all moved at the same time would take some significant effort, and they'd need an equally compelling reason to halt all other work and make that leap. 12W​arr1024: I already applied my own standards of ideological purity when I chose where to host my own projects, but I'm okay with working with other projects where they want to host even if they're less puritanical about those ideological factors. 06j​akeh04: if mt was proprietary, it would probably already have rtx multi render passes and a MTG design team that makes a fun default game lol 12W​arr1024: haha, nah, it'd be a dead project with no funding, or it'd be all about microtransactions and loot boxes in a desperate effort to compete with roblox or something Copenhagen_Bram: Which Minetest mods are mostly translated to Spanish? I'd like to try playing Minetest in Spanish to practice the language. 12W​arr1024: again, in a way not bringing money into the picture can actually be FREEING, at least in part because it allows you to attract people who share a passion for something. Once you bring any amount of money into the picture it tends to start driving passion away... Copenhagen_Bram: Oh hey warr 12W​arr1024: Big popular packages are most likely to have some level of translation, probably 12W​arr1024: also hi :-) Copenhagen_Bram: For a moment I thought this discussion had something to do with using prills as currency in nodecore 06j​akeh04: i think management practices play the biggest part in a loss of passion. One boss makes life suck and the other crafts a productive environment Warr1024: Haha, tbh I'm also a first-class IRC citizen but often cba to switch over to my IRC client. Took me a long time to even find one that lets me hop between mobile and desktop reasonably well, which is basically like 99% of the reason why I got into Discord in the first place. 06j​akeh04: same can happen with OSS. say your PRs always get shutdown for instance lol 12W​arr1024: CB: you did mention you were interested in doing spanish translations for nodecore ... I should set you up that weblate account one of these days... :-/ * Copenhagen_Bram: checks what client Warr1024 is using 08a​ppguru: Ze Bridge Copenhagen_Bram: Huh. If I want IRC on mobile, I can run weechat with tmux on my computer and ssh in using termux on my phone Warr1024: I wonder if my client responds to such requests properly. It's TheLounge, which is a bit weird and feature-barren, but it has good mobile-to-desktop-hopping support, and I can self-host it. Warr1024: I tried the irssi-in-tmux-in-ssh thing for a while but ssh clients for mobile add so much awkwardness rom1504: weechat + glowing bear works fine Copenhagen_Bram: You might like to look into termux, it's not an SSH client, it's an entire linux terminal Copenhagen_Bram: It even has an apt package manager Warr1024: I wouldn't call TheLounge ready quite yet to receive my general recommendation though. It lacks certain features that bother me from time to time, and I'd really love to see some kind of scriptability. Copenhagen_Bram: Hmm Warr1024: btw, if you're looking for a good "mobile ssh client" WeTTY is an interesting project to look into, if you're okay substituting TLS security for SSH. Most mobile clients will have a browser, and with WeTTY you basically can turn that into a no-installation-needed SSH client... Copenhagen_Bram: > I wonder if my client responds to such requests properly. Copenhagen_Bram: Well, it responded to my CTCP request Warr1024: though I haven't tried certain things in it like all the keybinds for example... Copenhagen_Bram: How would you define a good mobile ssh client? Warr1024: One of the problems with the irssi+tmux solution I had was all the hoops I had to jump through to get push notifications sent to my phone. I think what I used was email-to-SMS in the end, but it was a PITA. First-class mobile support makes the push notification thing cleaner... Warr1024: I define a good mobile ssh client as (1) mobile, (2) an ssh client, and (3) doesn't find ways to piss me off when I try to actually use it for stuff. Copenhagen_Bram: And how do I find WeTTY? Duckduckgo searches aren't case sensitive it seems, and searching for wetty brings up a song and a male shaving brand Warr1024: https://github.com/butlerx/wetty Warr1024: Basically I run nginx reverse proxy -> wetty running in nodejs -> ssh server and it makes a good emergency way to access my machines' terminals when I might not have proper access to an ssh client, or I'm running into firewall problems, like those networks that only let 443/tcp and 80/tcp outbound. specing: you could have port 80 redirect to 22 Warr1024: Get yourself a dynamic DNS that you can maintain (I actually use a paid one from dyn.com because :shrug: and it works fine for me) plus a TLS cert from LetsEncrypt... specing: IPv6 addresses are plentiful specing: no need for a ton of javascript Warr1024: Redirecting from 80 to 22 would be tricky because it would require some complex analysis to determine if the protocol being used is actually ssh or http, and it wouldn't work for some networks I've used where they actually do some heuristic inspection of the packet content and verify that it sanely matches the set of protocols they allow. specing: no specing: use one of the 2^64 IPv6 addresses that you arent using Warr1024: I'm pretty sure that I'm not using a lot more IPv6 addresses than just that. swift110: hey all Warr1024: I'd be more inclined to use IPv6 addresses if I didn't have to worry about networks that don't support them, forcing me to use IPv4 fallbacks anyway. It's kind of a shame that IPv6 never really caught on, but I guess I have to live with that. 06j​akeh04: gonna be a pain to type those adresses though lol 12W​arr1024: I wouldn't recommend typing any addresses one way or another anyway. Get a hostname :-) 06j​akeh04: ideally DS-minetest: What is the best way to get the latest version of the minimal game? DS-minetest: I'd like to look into my old maps. sfan5: grab the one from the commit before devtest was added sfan5: or any old one e.g. 5.2.0 sfan5: there haven't really been relevant changes DS-minetest: ok, thanks DS-minetest: for logs (so that someone who reads this won't search for the commit): I've gotten latest minimal via git checkout a9b74f4c3966ad38c2f9a97364d3fdda0e514c93 games/ esperegu: I am trying to login to a server I set up but keep getting 'Passwords do not match!". How can I debug that? Cannot seem to find any debug log. esperegu: it does not show anything on the server side when pressing 'register and join' esperegu: 2020-09-05 07:42:47: VERBOSE[Server]: Server::peerAdded(): peer->id=3 esperegu: 2020-09-05 07:42:47: VERBOSE[Server]: Server: Handling peer change: id=3, timeout=0 esperegu: 2020-09-05 07:42:47: VERBOSE[Server]: Server: Got TOSERVER_INIT from 192.168.1.126 (peer_id=3) esperegu: 2020-09-05 07:42:47: VERBOSE[Server]: Server: 192.168.1.126: Protocol version: min: 37, max: 39, chosen: 39 esperegu: 2020-09-05 07:42:47: INFO[Server]: Server: New connection: "hallo" from 192.168.1.126 (peer_id=3) esperegu: 2020-09-05 07:42:47: VERBOSE[Server]: Sending TOCLIENT_HELLO with auth method field: 4 esperegu: figured it out. you need to put the password also on the first page. should be specified clearly. bingfengfsx: is anyone here? aldum: always Krock: never Krock: esperegu: the dialog clearly states that you need to REPEAT the previously entered password Krock: btw, this is already tracked as a kind of bug dievri: hello. Is it possible to wrap a long line in a textarea in formspec? Krock: dievri: done automatically if you set thee width properly Krock: though continuous lines aren't broken... Krock: weird. I remember a minetest.wrap_text call in tab_content.lua but this seems to be gone since the ContentDB feature Krock: anyway, call minetest.wrap_text if you also want to wrap too long lines for textareas dievri: thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! 08a​ppguru: "Warthog" is claiming that "[there] are also a bug in minetest that makes you able to use an already banned account, seems like a few players already found it (me and included)". Is there any truth to this? 08a​ppguru: Banning usually works through on_prejoinplayer, and I can't think of any case in which that won't be triggered. sfan5: the builtin bans are a bit funny sfan5: so when you ban a player it bans their ip sfan5: but you can literally still use the account from another ip sfan5: (yes, this is documented) 08a​ppguru: hmm, I think Warthog was referring to CTF bans tho 08a​ppguru: which means sban sfan5: no idea about that CraneZhou: good evening. CraneZhou: as a software developer and engineer, 08a​ppguru: get to the point please CraneZhou: is there some recommended servers which I could login, so i could know more players in the same class during the build progress ? 08a​ppguru: "same class" ? 08a​ppguru: software or in-game "build progress" ? CraneZhou: some recommended servers to login CraneZhou: in-game "build progress". Krock: top 5 in the server list, I'd assume? 08a​ppguru: https://servers.minetest.net CraneZhou: ok, let me check and try. 08a​ppguru: lel 08a​ppguru: the top 5 are all MultiCraft servers Krock: though most users of the popular servers are playing on mobile (Android or illegal iOS app), so I don't think they'd be capable building more than PC players 08a​ppguru: I wouldn't particularly recommend them CraneZhou: MTDiscord: thank you very much for your help and comments. Krock: CraneZhou: MTDiscord is a relay to discord. appguru is the user who sends the message Krock: relay/bridge, however you'd like to call it 08a​ppguru: the fun thing is that there could be multiple appgurus Krock: one is already enough 08a​ppguru: Thanks for fixing my PR Krock btw Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! CraneZhou: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! CraneZhou: !server MinetestBot: CraneZhou: Eurythmia Evolution [Francais/English] | langg.net:30001 | Clients: 2/30, 0/4 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest | Ping: 40ms sfan5: that just returns a random server picked from the list Krock: CraneZhou: dunno if this is still relevant, but you can see some good content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ Krock: demo video of an older server CraneZhou: Krock: thank you very much for your help. Krock: np CraneZhou: but I could not access youtube.com CraneZhou: by the way, it seems I could not open servers.minetest.net page either (slow). Krock: works fine here. blame your ISP CraneZhou: any other solution here, CraneZhou: how large is the demo video file ? FeXoR: Could someone point me to part of the code where the hotkey for zooming with binoculars are defined? (I wonder if that's just the the engine, just the mod or a wild mix :p) Krock: CraneZhou: nvm Krock: FeXoR: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/inputhandler.cpp#L75 CraneZhou: Krock: what is nvm ? Krock: "NVM is used to say, "Please disregard my last question/comment," usually because the user found the answer seconds after posting the original question. " - lifewire.com FeXoR: Thanks Krock ;) I cannot find the dependency on binoculars there or in the mod. What am I missing? :D Krock: FeXoR: it also depends on the player's zoom_fov object property Krock: if that's not specified, the zoom feature cannot be used FeXoR: Ah, ok. And that's set in the binocular mod, I see. But where is that dependency in the engine (zoom_fov)? CraneZhou: Krock: thank you very much for your help and comments. FeXoR: (Ah, found it. It's in localplayer.h. Thanks for the help! ;) Krock: FeXoR: cd /path/to/minetest-master/src && grep -r zoom_fov FeXoR: I don't have the source locally but thanks! ;) Krock: feel free to git clone it. shadow clone should be less than 100 MiB 11a​utomaton: err what does shadow clone mean? i tried googling, and all i got was anime sfan5: git clone --depth=1 probably Krock: ^ that Krock: *shallow clone Krock: happy little accidents 12W​arr1024: you can do a shadow shallow clone if you shallow clone a repo for a project named shadow 11a​utomaton: ah I see, ty 08a​ppguru: The Minetest website appears to be misconfigured 08a​ppguru: https://minetest.net gives you a MOZILLA_PKIX_ERROR_SELF_SIGNED_CERT 08a​ppguru: https://www.minetest.net works fine though 08a​ppguru: Is there any particular reason as to why https://minetest.net doesn't simply redirect to https://www.minetest.net sfan5: it needs a valid certificate for that 12W​arr1024: It's a LE cert. Those can be issued with additional names so one cert can cover www and non-www. 12W​arr1024: alternatively you could just use 2 LE certs independently dievri: hello. It's possible to create world with minetestserver command? Krock: hi. yes. Krock: minetest(server) --worldpath /path/to/your/new/world will create one using the default_game setting specified in minetest.conf Krock: though enabling mods is a pain like that. just create the world in a GUI, configure and copy it over (FTP/SSHFS) 12W​arr1024: If file transfer is a pain, you can always create the world that way, then shut it down and modify world.mt. I think it preloads a bunch of loadmod* = false lines for all the mods you have installed. Changing the gameid is also possible IF you delete map.sqlite and force the terrain to regenerate. 08a​ppguru: The geo_continent values provided by the serverlist are continent codes as in https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.geoip-continent-code-by-name.php I assume dievri: I would like to run server in docker container, and recreate world each time I restart container. I need a singlenode created world, everything else generated by custom mod Krock: then adjust your minetest.conf accordingly Krock: mg_name = singlenode dievri: is this any option to specify which mod to enable for world? Krock: mkdir worldname && echo "load_mod_mynice_modname = true" >>worldname/world.mt Krock: seriously though. better prepare a zip with the configuration and use that to initialize the world 08a​ppguru: nah should go with sed: s/load_mod_mynice_modname = false/load_mod_mynice_modname = true Krock: there's nothing to replace if the map is wiped every time Krock: s/map/world/ 08a​ppguru: yeah but there will be a loadmod... = false generated by minetest Krock: yet only after minetestserver was started at least once 08a​ppguru: ah Krock: so you have to start and shut it down, which is kinda much effort for what it's worth 08a​ppguru: then that is probably preferred 08a​ppguru: (yours) dievri: minetestserver started with container dievri: if I create worldname directory with world.mt inside, than minetestserver will trigger creation of the new world? Krock: it will create a new world when there's no world.mt, and takes that world if there's already world.mt Krock: after all it does not matter at all 08a​ppguru: Hmm 08a​ppguru: What is "server_id" in servers.minetest.net/list 08a​ppguru: Only MultiCraft servers seem to be using it Krock: appguru: looks like servers can add their own JSON fields which is then passed directly to the lsit Krock: not so nice 08a​ppguru: Yeah, that was my fear 08a​ppguru: Hope sfan5 got it all properly sanitized 08a​ppguru: So that one can't just drop some megabytes there sfan5: partially 12W​arr1024: If you're running your server in docker, you can bake your config into your image, or you can use bind mounts to load them from outside, or whatever combination 12W​arr1024: I actually really like Docker for making a complex MT server deployment more maintainable rubenwardy: appguru: sfan5: it's much more likely that there's a bug in sban. CTF doesn't use Minetest bands, and sban is well known to be buggy 03r​ubenwardy: @appguru ROllerGuy: is it intentional that the flat generator only generates a small flat area and then continues with normal non-flat generation? Krock: ROllerGuy: AFAIK no. check your map_meta.txt whether it's really "flat" ROllerGuy: hm. the world is flat (mg_name = flat), but I had hills turned on. that might be the problem :| Krock: flat with hills was a weird decision IMO Darkwar: hello Darkwar: can someone help me check if my minetest server is up Darkwar: i dont have a secound devices to make sure its running Darkwar: correctly Krock: !up server.ip.address portnumber MinetestBot: Krock: invalid port Darkwar: thx Darkwar: !ip matrix.minecity.online Darkwar: !up matrix.minecity.online MinetestBot: matrix.minecity.online:30000 is up (128ms) (IPv4) ROllerGuy: yeah, it's kinda backwards. but it's also disabled by default so the only one I have to blame is myself for turning it on and getting the most non-flat flatlands :P Darkwar: sweet all firewalls are done Darkwar: alright soo why cant i see my server on the server lsit Darkwar: i enbaled it true Darkwar: and says its broadcasting 03s​hivajiva: @rubenwardy if sban is well known to be buggy where are the issues for these bugs so I can trace them? Edwardplayz: Hi guys 11J​onathon: hello 👋 Edwardplayz: Who owns the IRC? Edwardplayz: 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 CraneZhou: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! CraneZhou: !server MinetestBot: CraneZhou: [BOSH PARTY] MINETEST SERVER | minetest.bosh.party | Clients: 0/16, 0/3 | Version: 5.3.0 / minetest | Ping: 173ms bingfengfsx: is anyone here? Emerald2: Not very active at this time of night, bingfengfsx. bingfengfsx: emmmmm Emerald2: Do you need something? bingfengfsx: Discuss the future development of minetest bingfengfsx: Minetest game really want to stop adding new features? Emerald2: I'm not very familiar with the situation. dievri: hello. I have custom entity with counter and counter functions. I want to create two custom tools, one for increment, other for decrement. Should I trigger counter functions in on_pounch function? bingfengfsx: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=25152 bingfengfsx: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2710 bingfengfsx: @dievri bingfengfsx: i dont know bingfengfsx_: ~ 08f​reshreplicant: Is that your comment at the end? bingfengfsx_: @freshrepicant bingfengfsx_: yes! bingfengfsx_: last comment bingfengfsx_: from my! 08f​reshreplicant: I'm too new to Minetest to really contribute to the conversation, but I think the developers do sometimes appear here. 08f​reshreplicant: From my understanding, Minetest the Game has been frozen before, so it might not necessarily be the 'end of MTG'. bingfengfsx_: The reason I don’t recommend this is mainly because it affects the out-of-the-box gaming experience. After all, most games can be played directly after installation. If the built-in default game package is stronger, it will be beneficial to the game Promotion and experience. bingfengfsx_: Of course I know that minetest_game will exist forever, but it is not good not to update new features. 08f​reshreplicant: Yeah, I can certainly see that point. I think there will definitely be people who will install MT and then try to play it, see there's no 'game' with it and just move on. You could say 'we don't want those kind of people', but some of those people might be kids for example (or less technically literate adults). 08f​reshreplicant: Plus if Minetest had a greater network effect, you could attract more modders, contributors, etc. bingfengfsx_: yes,yes,yes bingfengfsx_: and, your username is MTDiscord freshreplicant? bingfengfsx_: minetest's discord community,i not found 08f​reshreplicant: I'm on the unoffical Minetest discord, they have an IRC bridge set up - not sure I'm using it right. 08f​reshreplicant: https://discord.gg/7P9kYZ 08f​reshreplicant: I think that's it. 11I​hrFussel: The devs are planning to redesign the main menu so that it 'urges' you to download a game...right now I agree with the whole 'people will see there is no (exciting) game and move on' 05澜​汐: 大家好！ 05澜​汐: i'm BingFengFSX(IFRFSX) bingfengfsx_: emmmm dievri: is it possible to make entity immortal inside initial_properties? rubenwardy: dievri: yes, you can set any property there rubenwardy: "immortal" is an armor group that prevents the entity from taking punch damage dievri: I'm putting this string in the initial_properties, but no effect - armor_groups = { immortal = 0 } rubenwardy: try = 1 rubenwardy: =0 means not in the group, usually 12W​arr1024: The MTG Maintenance Mode issue should probably be locked, because it's the kind of thing that will tend to attract a lot of uninformed opinions. 12W​arr1024: (I say without failing to notice the potential for irony) sfan5: nothing bad about opinions sfan5: unless it turns into flamewar 12W​arr1024: Eh, I tend to see opinions as generally bad ... uninformed ones in particular. A flamewar would be bad for certain, but a slow smolder is also not helpful. Arguably that kind of thing is exactly the kind of attention-sink that MTG going into maint mode is supposed to avoid... 12W​arr1024: By "uninformed" specifically what I mean is people who see the sensational headline thinking "MT's default game is halting development" but don't know about the debundling or main menu revamp efforts. 12W​arr1024: There is a LOT of background to digest in those in order to achieve "informed" status. I've been an enthusiast for those reforms and even my informedness has probably expired by now. 12W​arr1024: I suppose maybe if the main menu stuff moves forward first then it will become easier to have the conversations about the rest of the vision... 08f​reshreplicant: ...err...I may have submitted a long uninformed post in the forum on precisely that topic...just before reading your message here. 06k​b1000: why do some people on irc have pictures on their messages on discord? kb1000: Where would you set that picture up? 06k​b1000: oh 12W​arr1024: yeah, you just need to have your IRC nick match your Discord username 12W​arr1024: side note: Discord users would be well advised to make sure they have their nick registered and protected on freenode to make sure nobody can drop in and use their picture 06k​b1000: actually i didnt even write that message through irc lol more like matrix... dievri: when I call get_luaentity() on custom entity and modify custom properties, this properties inherited by all objects of the entity? dievri: I would like that my custom entities preserve they state, which initially was set 12W​arr1024: the lua entity is a lua table, whose metatable indexes a table that's the prototype of the entity definiton ... so the answer is a bit complex due to aliasing 12W​arr1024: if you're calling set_properties() on the object (not the luaent) then you are definitely always modifying a single object 12W​arr1024: if you're dong something like luaentity.age = luaentity.age + dtime then your change also only affects one object 12W​arr1024: but if you do something like luaentity.basepos.y = luaentity.basepos.y + 1 then you might be modifying one entity, or you might be modifying all of them, depending on whether you made an independent copy of basepos for that specific entity, or if it's being inherited from the prototype. dievri: I'm doing the following dievri: 1) local entity = minetest.add_entity .... dievri: 2) entity:get_luaentity().lua_properties.path = fullpath dievri: path and fullpath are strings, initially in minetest.register_entity path is set like lua_properties = { path = "" } 04L​one_Wolf: .path == ["path"] 12W​arr1024: lua_properties is something defined in the entity registration itself? 12W​arr1024: or is it being written on_activate or something? dievri: after initial properties, initial_properties = {...}, lua_properties = {... }, 12W​arr1024: assuming you're not making an explicit copy anywhere, it looks to me like you're probably aliasing the one shared one from the prototype 12W​arr1024: so when you change the path for one, you're changing the path for all. dievri: how explicit copy should be done properly? 12W​arr1024: simplest thing to do is ditch lua_properties and just put the custom properties right onto the prototype object. Aliasing doesn't happen with primitives or non-nested element assignments. 12W​arr1024: alternatively on_activate you do something like local base = self.lua_properties self.lua_properties = {} for k, v in pairs(base) do self.lua_properties[k] = v end, but that only works if there are no nested tables in there 12W​arr1024: if you have a self.lua_properties.basepos.x or something then you'll have to recursively copy 12W​arr1024: minetest.deserialize(minetest.serialize(table)) is a simple naive way to copy, though there's probably some overhead cost that may make it scale a bit worse 12W​arr1024: The real question here is why lua_properties exists, because even in the absence of an explicit reason for it NOT to exist, it would still need a reason to exist. 04L​one_Wolf: Is 'path' a variable? 04L​one_Wolf: Darn internet lol 04L​one_Wolf: Can just ignore that dievri: great, now everything is working. lua_properties exists no more) thanks 12W​arr1024: Yeah, entities are a little tricky in the way they use metatables. You don't run into this issue with nodes because nodes don't have per-instance lua objects, so you're interacting ONLY with the definitions themselves, and ephemeral node {name=...,param=...,param2=...} tables. Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: im going katp32: hi, I have a bit of an issue katp32: it seems that an invalid entity has been created due to me forgetting to update minetest_game katp32: that's fine, everything is updated now, but the issue is, that entity appears to still be in the save file, so every time the server starts, it immediately crashes again katp32: is there a way to make it... uh... not do that? Krock: perhaps post a link to the error messages first? katp32: https://dpaste.com/DWC83PZQF Krock: grep -r "on_step = function" --- inside your mods/ directory Krock: update those accordingly Krock: actually this would be better: grep -r "on_step\(" (or similar) katp32: update them how? Krock: git pull katp32: ah, nope, they're all already the latest Krock: or contentdb update function Krock: then minetest_game needs an update - or whatever game you're using katp32: ...er, nevermind apparently katp32: ohhh, I'm an idiot lmao, I forgot to update my git submodules MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Prevent interacting with items out of the hotbar (#10359) 136dcc9e6 https://git.io/JUsTB (152020-09-04T18:50:33Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest: Extend tooltips of many items and tools (#10312) 139faeca3 https://git.io/JUsTR (152020-09-04T18:50:03Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Scale inventory image for scaled allfaces nodes (#10225) 13b3ace8f https://git.io/JUsT0 (152020-09-04T18:49:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix inventory swapping not calling all callbacks (#9923) 13050964b https://git.io/JUsTE (152020-09-04T18:49:07Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Add 'ores' global mapgen flag (#10276) 134ba5046 https://git.io/JUOYT (152020-09-03T00:28:40Z) specing: Was the viewmode (F7) key changed? specing: I can no longer switch to 3rd person mode rubenwardy: C rubenwardy: or V rubenwardy: I don't agree with the change, but whatever 04L​one_Wolf: It 04L​one_Wolf: 's nice when you can't see your keyboard like me 04L​one_Wolf: Although I guess I'll eventually form proper typing habits and be able to reach that consistently without mistakes muhdnurhidayat: I actually read the IRC chat on discord but not replying there as the bridge would put up my username instead of nickname muhdnurhidayat: anyway muhdnurhidayat: Copenhagen_Bram : weblate actually do add custom language or script, you just need to contact them with details about it muhdnurhidayat: like I'm the one who requested addition of "Malay (Jawi)" on weblate (coded as ms_Arab) because I need that for some projects muhdnurhidayat: once Weblate add it then you can go the usual process of translating Minetest muhdnurhidayat: when looking through all languages available on Weblate, there are indeed few more custom language on it, including English Rude (en@rude) muhdnurhidayat: also lojban do have language code : jbo muhdnurhidayat: Toki Pona has requested for language code but it was denied, twice, one for code mis, the other for code tok muhdnurhidayat: reason being it's too small (ik that's kinda bad reason as language is language, but it is what it is) muhdnurhidayat: small as in too few people using it SoylentCow: the remap was pointless, imho, but in the end, moot, who cares, right? though i could swear i had a weird update glitch on one host, where it should have remapped, but somehow it didn't, something with config SoylentCow: what really stood out for me, personally, is how build-in-place config is in build dir, not in ~/.minetest , am i not misinformed? Krock: I think you meant RUN_IN_PLACE? SoylentCow: i don't do caps SoylentCow: but yeah Krock: well, that's its entire purpose. if you want to use the system file structure, then don't use RUN_IN_PLACE SoylentCow: but Krock: because that will make Minetest use the files that are around the binary SoylentCow: we want it all and we want it NOW! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! dievri: hello. function minetest.get_current_modname() return nil inside minetest.register_on_joinplayer(). Is this should be this way? Krock: hi yes Krock: use "debug." functions to figure out whether it's really executed within your mod, or hooked by another dievri: thanks, sorted out) mangul: Can someone please tell me in what situation(s) server does not send RemoveNode message to a client? dievri: how to make entity placed in air to fall? mangul: Guys, Is it a good idea to ping celeron or some other core developer about this matter? Krock: mangul: #minetest-dev is probably the best place dievri: I'm trying to put entity in space when the player in joined and make entity fall. But the entity is not falling https://github.com/dievri/minetest/blob/master/practicemod/init.lua Do I missing some properties? mangul: Krock, But you said that channel is not about related projects oil_boi: dievri, you need to add an on_activate set_acceleration vector to the entity oil_boi: The initial creation of an entity as defined in the source code gives the entity an attached acceleration vector of (0,0,0) oil_boi: A simple addition of this will help: https://github.com/dievri/minetest/pull/1 oil_boi: Acceleration vs Velocity as per the source code is that the acceleration vector smoothly changes the velocity, where as applying the velocity per server step will create jerky movement oil_boi: This needs to be handled accordingly if you want this to sharply change direction or smoothly change direction, you can use both when each effect is desired oil_boi: Also keep in mind that if the object is moving extremely fast, the movement vs the actual client movement may appear different as the objects in the server are interpolated to give the effect that the object is moving very smoothly oil_boi: Also part 2, keep in mind if you set the acceleration vector too high in any direction you can actually crash the server from a float/integer overflow. I've forgotten which of these primitives the engine uses dievri: thank you, now it's working oil_boi: No problemo Krock: mangul: oh. I thought you were talking about the Minetest engine Krock: I think Q&A about the internals of Minetest fits into -dev. Though specific questions about other projects don't. Krock: mangul: check out server.cpp -> Server::sendRemoveNode this function is called by map events (player dug node) Krock: minetest.remove_node triggers it Krock: to be fair, this could easily be replaced by minetest.set_node air Krock: only difference is that the "on_construct" callback isn't attempted to run for remove_node 08a​ppguru: oil_boi: -9.81 shangul: Krock, Thanks. oil_boi: Actually appguru -9.81000000000000000000000001 heh heh heh 03r​ubenwardy: oil_boi: doesn't that take a vector? 08a​ppguru: oil_boi: -9.81000000000000000000000001 == -9.81 oil_boi: in cpp -9.81 != -9.81000000000000000000000001 11o​il_boi: That's it I'm coming in here boi 11o​il_boi: U done goofed now rubenwardy: does floating acurracy matter here? 11o​il_boi: Only if we're programming dna simulations, because what generates proteins can now give you spider powers 08a​ppguru: I was talking Lua 11o​il_boi: https://tenor.com/view/moana-delete-maui-delete-this-gif-15101621 08a​ppguru: As Lua uses doubles I doubt C++ would be able to offer higher precision? rubenwardy: Taking g as 9.81 is also silly when you don't have air resistance or whatever 11o​il_boi: Yes use 10 and let it get crazy 11o​il_boi: Well 11o​il_boi: Apply 1500 to it 1000 times in a server step and watch the game close 08a​ppguru: 9.81 implies to the reader that we're talking gravity here rubenwardy: I guess 11o​il_boi: The world is made of blocks, reality doesn't exist in these here parts rubenwardy: 9.8 or 9.81, just not 10:) 11o​il_boi: how about 1.89? rubenwardy: if that's not in meters, then potentially yes Krock: pi * 3 11o​il_boi: It's in feet kilomeinches 08a​ppguru: -9.81000000000000000000000001 == -9.81 also holds in C++ 11o​il_boi: That better be a double you're talkin bout here partner rubenwardy: also, 9.81 isn't even correct in a lot of places rubenwardy: "At different points on Earth surface, the free fall acceleration ranges from 9.764 m/s2 to 9.834 m/s" 11o​il_boi: Aren't you literally a scientist? 08a​ppguru: Who? Me? 11o​il_boi: No the other you rubenwardy: Me? I'm a computer scientist, so no Krock: I'm a doctor, not a scientist, Scotty! 11o​il_boi: It still counts! 11o​il_boi: A scientist has proven us both wrong, now we have to duel rubenwardy: If I didn't go into CS, I would have probably done physics 11o​il_boi: Ah he's a physicist! Now we're double wrong 11o​il_boi: Fook 08a​ppguru: Bleh 08a​ppguru: You're wronger tho 11o​il_boi: Is Minetest earth though? 08a​ppguru: Minetest is earth but not The Earth. 11o​il_boi: Wait, let's think about this right, the average height in MT world is around 0-20 meters from sea level no? 11o​il_boi: let's say ten, now what is the gravitational effect of 32010 meters of mass the density of average stone in real life 11o​il_boi: Then we will have the answer Krock: Minetest is hillier than the world Krock: hence the world is flat 11o​il_boi: UNLESS you use Jeija's fookin Taurus world then good luck 08a​ppguru: Hmmm 08a​ppguru: We'd have much higher gravity than on Earth with 32km instead of 6km 11o​il_boi: Oh no rubenwardy: no no no rubenwardy: Earth has 6000km rubenwardy: not 6km 11o​il_boi: Someone should write a hardcore mode that simulates real gravity 11o​il_boi: One second rubenwardy: fun fact: knowing the radius of the earth helped in the interview for my current job 11o​il_boi: Oh no 11o​il_boi: The y element of the acceleration vector is 0.05231999996 rubenwardy: they wanted me to estimate stuff to do with launching satellites at different latitudes 11o​il_boi: That's less than the moon 1.62 m/s² 11o​il_boi: Good lord man, good luck with that (no seriously) Krock: Minetest be like Pluto specing: I've always wished for proper mountains in minetest rubenwardy: the moon's radius is 54x Minetest's "radius" rubenwardy: 1,737 vs 32 rubenwardy: (km) 11o​il_boi: I assumed linear Bezier curve dzho: minetest has a radius? Krock: !c sqrt(62**2/math.pi) MinetestBot: NameError: name 'sqrt' is not defined Krock: !c (62**2/math.pi)**0.5 MinetestBot: 34.97975417996089 Krock: minetest's radius is that^ Krock: from square to circle Krock: because all planets are flat /s dzho: yeah I wasn't going to go there but now it's out dzho: I was sort of thinking about how it might be interesting for it to have actual curvature so that eventually you could travel back to where you started rubenwardy: see Jeija's youtube video rubenwardy: he modified Minetest to make it a sphere world rubenwardy: *videos * dzho: scrolls up rubenwardy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztAg643gJBA Krock: you gotta scroll til 2017 rubenwardy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joFWr3JzBOI dzho: Krock: heh dzho: rubenwardy: thanks Krock: would still be possible to rebase these patches Krock: though redoing using copy&paste might be quite a bit faster dievri: Is is possible to access entity self name from on_punch function? https://github.com/dievri/minetest/blob/master/practicemod/init.lua#L26 dievri: getting nil value sfan5: that should be self.object:get_nametag_attributes() dievri: sfan5, thank you, yes, it's ok now dievri: is is possible to add custom property to an entity after it is added (minetest.add_entity ...)? Krock: yes Krock: self.my_value = "whatever" oil_boi: You can even change it's scale and rotation, along with it's mesh dievri: attempt to index local 'entity' (a userdata value) Krock: obj:get_luaentity Krock: () Krock: that's equal to "self" passed to callbacks Krock: and obj == self.object:get_luaentity().object Krock: endless oil_boi: You can even save an array of objects and do things with them!! Woooo dievri: cool, once again it is working) thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! specing: What is the easiest way to load mod code outside minetest? specing: I'd like to plug my minetest.register_craft so I can do some analysis on the recipe interactions 12W​arr1024: probably you'd have to mock up the API 12W​arr1024: that might not be too bad, though, since you mostly just need the register calls and can stub out most of the world-modifying bits, e.g. set_node. specing: right now I use a pcre to grep out all calls of register_craft and then I mock up that function specing: but its not that simple as there are enough recipes using variable names and such to makke this a pointless endeavour specing: perhaps I should recompile minetest with my own code added to that function? 12W​arr1024: basically what I'm suggesting is that you load some lua code into a bare lua interpreter to mock up enough of the MT API that the register calls work and don't crash, and then run the mod code under that. You don't have to actually start up the game loop, just get the register calls working. 12W​arr1024: That will work for like 99% of mods out there, probably 12W​arr1024: it'll catch variables, unusual syntax, etc. 12W​arr1024: it probably WON'T work with things like mods that read other mods' recipes and then modify theirs based on that, but I'd hope that'd be exceedingly rare and you could just handle special cases as special if that ever does happen. dievri: hello. How to start an empty world with minetestserver? sfan5: empty as in a new one? SwissalpS: or empty as in only air? dievri: as in only air sfan5: dievri: the simplest way is probably to create a normal new world, delete map.sqlite and edit map_meta.txt to mg_name = singlenode sfan5: then start the server again and you'll get an empty world dievri: which command is used to write to log file from mod? 11I​hrFussel: minetest.log(loglevel, message) 11I​hrFussel: loglevel is mostly 'action' dievri: looks like it is writing to debug.txt in home folder dievri: how to direct them to /var/log/minetest/minetest.log? 12W​arr1024: touch /var/log/minetest/minetest.log && ln -sf /var/log/minetest/minetest.log debug.txt ...? calcul0n_: there's a --logfile commandline option, probably a setting too but i can't find it MinetestBot: 02[git] 04IFRFSX -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update Chinese translation (#2730) 1325bf3fd https://git.io/JUYAr (152020-09-02T16:30:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: beds: Various bug fixes (#2566) 13268f869 https://git.io/JUYAX (152020-09-02T16:32:06Z) 11I​hrFussel: Is kitsunemimi.pw the server list or some official site? 10J​ordach: it's sfan5 personal site 10J​ordach: it also hosts his wonderful windows builds sfan5: ...which also hosts the server list specing: Some grilling for the minetest devs: https://old.reddit.com/r/opensourcegames/comments/ihvnzw/why_are_so_many_freelibreopen_source_games_so/ 04L​one_Wolf: Save some burgers for me Neal29: Hi! Copenhagen_Bram: Hello Copenhagen_Bram: Do you think Minetest translations should depend on system locale? Copenhagen_Bram: If they were locale independent, it might be easier to add funny languages like Minecraft has, such as pirate speak and lolcat Copenhagen_Bram: People making subgames could even add whatever translations Copenhagen_Bram: And Toki Pona doesn't have an ISO or a locale Copenhagen_Bram: I'm not even sure if Lojban has one Copenhagen_Bram: So those languages could be more easily added 11G​reenXenith: re: r/opensourcegames modding question -- I decided to comment on it .. was an interesting subject. rubenwardy: Copenhagen_Bram: they're not dependent on the locale - you can use the language setting rubenwardy: the locale is just used to find the default translation when language isn't set rubenwardy: weblate itself may have restrictions on valid language codes Copenhagen_Bram: hello Copenhagen_Bram: just git cloned the latest version of voxelgarden, it's great 04L​one_Wolf: If you liked that I would also recommend https://content.minetest.net/packages/Hi_World/newplanet/ Copenhagen_Bram: hmm, should i git clone this one too or is the contentdb version up to date? Copenhagen_Bram: speaking of which, it'd be neat if the content manager supported git 04L​one_Wolf: I think the CDB version is up-to-date shangul: Client: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: Ubuntu "focal" 20.04 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz (1.20GHz) • Memory: Physical: 3.7 GiB Total (2.3 GiB Free) Swap: 3.0 GiB Total (2.7 GiB Free) • Storage: 296.1 GB / 476.0 GB (179.9 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation GF108GLM [NVS 5200M] @ Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 1d 20 shangul: h 45m 46s shangul: oh sorry shangul: wrogng channel MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: [2] Code cleanup in serverpackethandler (#9349) 13f5df707 https://git.io/JUmlq (152020-09-01T06:08:18Z) search_social: how do I call player:setattribute when theh player is not logged in? _Zaizen_: Hi everyone, while doing some things with entities I've noticed that moveresult doesn't return objects that collides if the entity is not moving. Not only it doesn't show objects, it's practically like it's not colliding. Is it that moveresul works only if the entity is moving or it's a bug? If anyone can help me it would be awesome, thanks SwissalpS: search_social: you don't, you wait for him to log on. sfan5: _Zaizen_: the name is sort of a hint here, the moveresult if the result of *that entity* moving, if it's not moving there will be no result sfan5: the other entity (that is moving) will have the first entity in its collision information though _Zaizen_: Is there a workaround you suggest I should use if i want the collisions eventhough the entity has to stays till sfan5: which other entity do you expect to collide with yours? _Zaizen_: Players. sfan5: players don't have a moveresult so that's kinda problematic _Zaizen_: Yeah I know.... sfan5: maybe get_objects_inside_radius suffices for your usecase _Zaizen_: I thought of that and probably is the only way i can do it in this moment _Zaizen_: Thank you so much for your help! oil_boi: rubenwardy, I need your help with licenses plz rubenwardy: uh oh 11o​il_boi: Wait what oil_boi: Hey, that's me Warr1024: yeah, avatars only show for IRC users if they're also on Discord with the same name... 12W​arr1024: We select few can now talk to ourselves... GreenXenith: Very true Warr1024: There is no guarantee that IRC and Discord users actually match up in practice, though. Each system has different ways of verifying users. GreenXenith: I am GreenXenith 12W​arr1024: Discord users who are worried about having their face used by somebody else in these channels can just get on IRC and register their nickname with nickserv, I guess, though I think there are a few caveats to that. GreenXenith: Registering doesn't matter if you don't enable enforcement GreenXenith: :eyes: @GreenXenith#3232 11o​il_boi: Hi forum 11o​il_boi: Wait no 12W​arr1024: There's also a grace period where NickServ lets you use the name before you have to log in. I don't know whether this channel enforces idenitifying with NickServ before you speak, so it may be possible to slip in a few messages before that expires. 12W​arr1024: That, and they periodically prune inactive accounts, so if your primary way of talking in here is via Discord, then your IRC nick registration might expire and become available to someone else again... Copenhagen_Bram: do saplings stop leaves from decaying? sfan5: don't think so Copenhagen_Bram: ah okay Copenhagen_Bram: some of the leaves seem to be taking their time to decay in voxelgarden Copenhagen_Bram: i wonder why SwissalpS: mostly leaves stay if you place them sfan5: uh, I only know about mtg Copenhagen_Bram: any voxelgarden players here? search_social: Thank you SwissalpS. But it seems that player:setattribute is saved when a player logs out and restored when a player logs in automatically, so it seems like there should be some way to set it when a player is offline rubenwardy: it's not possible currently, but there's some work towards doing it rubenwardy: (also note that set_attribute is deprecated, get_meta should be used instead) rubenwardy: `player:get_meta():set_string("key", "value")` rubenwardy: it was changed to be the same interface as node and item meta search_social: thank you rubenwardy 12W​arr1024: Being able to access players offline would be really nice. I've got a mod or two that involves accessing info about players offline, but it requires using mod storage, and so it won't scale well search_social: 2020-09-01 10:15:35: ERROR[Main]: Number of registerable nodes (32768) exceeded (ma_pops_furniture:counter1_yellow) search_social: uh oh 12W​arr1024: ouch, how many mods you got installed? search_social: less than 32,000 12W​arr1024: I should hope so 12W​arr1024: the question is whether ma&pa registers a massive number of nodes, or whether your other mods had you already close to the limit. search_social: no i just added a few new mods like pipeworks and technic and digilines search_social: i don't see how they could have more than 1,000 nodes each tho 12W​arr1024: they're unlikely to have more than 1000 nodes each 12W​arr1024: probably each has about 100, except one that has over 30,000 04L​one_Wolf: ~issue acess offline search_social: well disabling pipeworks let the server start but random nodes were unknown 04L​one_Wolf: oop 04L​one_Wolf: Guess it does an embed too search_social: as though it was skipping node registrations even though it didn't admit to it search_social: disable technic brought those nodes back 12W​arr1024: minetest.after(0, function() local db = {} for k in pairs(minetest.registered_nodes) do m = k:gsub(":.*", "") db[m] = (db[m] or 0) + 1 end minetest.chat_send_all(dump(db)) end) 12W​arr1024: of course you'll have to get it to run to do that trick, but disabling random mods will either (1) disable the culprit, or (2) lower the node regs down to the threshold where you can run the game to find it 12W​arr1024: it'd be really nice if MT could tell you which mods were eating up all the capacity, but at least it's not too hard to catch it this way 12W​arr1024: in theory you could intercept minetest.register_item to detect when you're about to register the 32768th node and dump the report at that time celeron55: adding a helpful diagnostic message there in the engine wouldn't hurt BuckarooBanzai: search_social: let me guess, moreblocks is enabled too? search_social: yes i have many random mods xd 12W​arr1024: mo mods mo problems 12W​arr1024: Part of the challenge of some MT games (particularly MTG) is figuring out which mods get you the best value. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Mark multiply and divide with two vectors as deprecated (Schur produc… 139ed84cf https://git.io/JUYff (152020-09-01T18:18:10Z) 04L​one_Wolf: 🎉 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Change default ambient occlusion gamma to 1.8 (#10185) 1374e22b7 https://git.io/JUYfY (152020-09-01T18:18:32Z) appguru: search_social excuse the ping search_social: hi freelikegnu: man, what more shit can fall on my head this week!? 04L​one_Wolf: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10360 iisu: Hi, how do I get an item definition? I want to register another item with similar properties. sfan5: minetest.registered_items iisu: Thanks. iisu: So I did this: iisu: minetest.register_node("foo:torch", minetest.registered_nodes["default:torch"]) iisu: Now I have 2 torches, which is what I wanted. iisu: But when I place default:torch on the ground, it becomes foo:torch, which is the opposite to what I wanted. :v iisu: I don't understand why/how this happens. sfan5: there might be something in the definition that caues this, maybe the callbacks? 12W​arr1024: you can't just blindly reuse the definition, you need to pick through it and figure out what can and can't be safely copied 12W​arr1024: If you want foo:torch to just be literally a default:torch then there's really no point in making a foo:torch and you might as well just use a default:torch. I do often find myself making nodes that "inherit" most properties from other nodes but change a few things. 12W​arr1024: things like dirt_with_* or stone_with_* are good examples of when you might do something like that. 04L​one_Wolf: Are you trying to create a new type of torch? iisu: Yes, one that stays in the inventory when the player dies. 12W​arr1024: also you might end up with an aliasing problem using literally the same def table iisu: So that the map is not littered with bones containing initial items. specing: iisu: how about disabling bones altogether? specing: e.g. on blocky you keep your whole inventory when you die 12W​arr1024: http://xyproblem.info/ 04L​one_Wolf: You can do that or just make the bones mod check for initial items iisu: Hmm, maybe I should just use params or something… iisu: Not an option. iisu: Yes, I wanna make the bones mod check for initial items but how is it gonna tell initial items from crafted ones? 12W​arr1024: alternatively, just stop giving players initial items to start out, or make players have to do something first before they get them, so they're far less likely to be running around with items in inventory. 12W​arr1024: well, one thing you could try is using itemstack meta to flag initial items 12W​arr1024: you can set an is_initial=1 flag or something, and additionaly set a description meta to rename them so it's obvious why they don't stack with the crafted stuff iisu: How do I set ItemStack metadata? iisu: It needs a string but I can't find out what format the string should be. iisu: MetaDataRef doesn't seem to have any conversion method. 04L​one_Wolf: It takes any kind of string you give it 04L​one_Wolf: itemstack:get_meta():set_string("key", tostring(number)) iisu: Jesus, that breaks Tell Not Ask. 04L​one_Wolf: ? 04L​one_Wolf: That code was an example. Not intended for running iisu: I mean, you'd expect get_meta() to return a copy of the meta, no wonder why I couldn't figure it out. Bad API design. 04L​one_Wolf: ~api get_meta 12W​arr1024: Tell Don't Ask looks like it's an OOPism and MT's Lua API is only reminiscent of OOP, not really properly OOP 04L​one_Wolf: heh, that bot needs some config to just link it or something 11J​onathon: aren't bots disabled here? 04L​one_Wolf: Looks like it sfan5: get_meta() returns a reference to the metadata "storage" 12W​arr1024: get_meta() gives you the meta object which you can use to access metadata 12W​arr1024: if it were a copy and not an alias that might make more sense on some level 12W​arr1024: but it was probably a performance over cleanliness trade-off 12W​arr1024: these objects can get arbitrarily heavy so copying them around is probably not great iisu: You don't do performance over cleanliness in APIs that are exposed to the outer world. 04L​one_Wolf: I actually kinda like it 04L​one_Wolf: Not so many methods stuffed into one object iisu: Anyways, back to modding. This isn't the time or place for my ranting. 12W​arr1024: Feel free to build a wrapper layer around what's there to "clean it up" if you want. 12W​arr1024: Probably wouldn't be too hard. What you think get_meta() should do is pretty much what get_meta():to_table() does 12W​arr1024: and set_meta() would just be get_meta():from_table() iisu: I thought about that, but I'll have to know the API better. I'm only a beginner modder. 12W​arr1024: I think what you'll find is that when you start peeling back the ugly band-aids, you find even uglier wounds under them and that'll make you want to just leave those in place :-) iisu: I actually did get_meta():to_table() in my code cause I wasn't sure what get_meta() returns but then I couldn't go back to the string format. 12W​arr1024: MT is a pretty complex project, and it works pretty well under pretty tight constraints (e.g. it plays pretty well on hardware that's >10 years old) so I'm willing to forgive them a lot of weirdness 12W​arr1024: I'm just happy when things work as documented, even if the way they're designed is weird. iisu: Oh, from_table(). I'm retarded, lol. iisu: Sorry. 12W​arr1024: to_table is a bit weird too because the table you get back once upon a time used to be serializable, but now the inventory parts contain itemstacks that you have to serialize separately if you want to serialize the whole thing 09V​iniciusBruce: > I use VSCode with the Minetest extension @Lone_Wolf What this does? 04L​one_Wolf: API autocompletion, .luacheckrc generator, and maybe a few other things swift110: hey 11J​onathon: Hello swift110: how fr u 11J​onathon: Decent, yourself? swift110: im great shangul: Hello :) 11I​hrFussel: Hi there t20kdc: ...I have a system for editing skins without admin intervention, but it's specific to a subgame. Would it be of use if I posted said subgame, and if so, where? BuckarooBanzai: t20kdc: editing, in like "ingame editing pixels"? Why don't you put it on gitlab/github and drop the link here? t20kdc: BuckarooBanzai: okie-dokie t20kdc: BuckarooBanzai: https://gitlab.com/20kdc/mt-obelisk-subgame (the specific mods for editable skins are BASE/k_player_model, BASE/k_menu and BASE/k_palette) t20kdc: also some stuff had some stupid internal name that might still remain, so if you see any signs of stupid internal names, that'd be why BuckarooBanzai: hehe, nice "Head" :P BuckarooBanzai: t20kdc: why don't you put this on the content-db, it looks mature enough t20kdc: BuckarooBanzai: it isn't, it really, really isn't t20kdc: also keep in mind that none of the stuff is designed to be compatible with existing subgames BuckarooBanzai: eh, the crafting grid has no listring[] attribute :P 04L​one_Wolf: Compat with other subgames is fine IMO 13G​enshin: Howdy sfan5: hi 04L​one_Wolf: My autopilot is trash 04L​one_Wolf: (*Lack of compat with other subgames is fine IMO) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix #10349 game crashing if dropped an item with undefined light_sour… 13d3d2189 https://git.io/JUtKK (152020-08-30T13:34:28Z) Genshin: Hello swift110: hey all Krock: hi Genshin: Made a mod to make player-to-player rightclicking a thing X) Genshin: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25301 swift110: where thats cool Genshin: I hope this becomes useful in the meantime Lone_Wolf: The end times are upon us 11G​reenXenith: Bueller.. Bueller... 12T​he32bitguy: Don't be so pessimistic 11J​onathon: Francis bueller? 04L​one_Wolf: To get back ontopic: My game without content is ranked higher than MTG on the ContentDB 11J​onathon: thats interesting 05/​g/: I see, so now we got a bridge to the minetest irc channel, nice gera_: Hello from the other side 12T​he32bitguy: Anything is better than MTG 13G​enshin: MTG is just a preset game imo Lone_Wolf: Great for mods 12T​he32bitguy: Great for mods™ 11J​onathon: isn't nodecore in 2nd place for games with most mods? or does that go to mineclone2? Lone_Wolf: Nodecore has quite a few made specifically for it 12T​he32bitguy: Internally I would think NodeCore 12W​arr1024: NodeCore probably has the highest ratio of mods to mod API documentation. Everyone who's slogged through the RTFSing necessary to make their mods work is a real trooper. celeron55: yeah we're experimenting with this discord bridge celeron55: hopefully it brings more life to IRC than takes out of it Warr1024: Good stuff so far celeron55: feel free to comment about it if it makes you feel either way Genshin: Never hurts to talk to people from the other side of things, lol Genshin: makes the chat room more lively Copenhagen_Bram: For some reason, the language setting doesn't seem to be working for me in Minetest for Flatpak. How do I change the language? rubenwardy: Try using the main menu? rubenwardy: the flat pack version uses a different .conf file 12W​arr1024: I actually had a similar issue with not being able to change the language, using a local compile. I heard there might be something missing involving installing locale files, but where do I find those? Copenhagen_Bram: I am using the main menu settings. rubenwardy: have you restarted? Copenhagen_Bram: Yes, I closed minetest and started it again. Copenhagen_Bram: flatpak install net.minetest.Minetest Copenhagen_Bram: open minetest, go to settings tab, click all settings Copenhagen_Bram: search language, set language to es Copenhagen_Bram: close minetest Copenhagen_Bram: flatpak run net.minetest.Minetest again Copenhagen_Bram: menu is still in English Copenhagen_Bram: Meanwhile, I could download Minecraft and set its language to pirate speak. Copenhagen_Bram: Will we ever have fun languages like that in Minetest? cheapie: Copenhagen_Bram: MT is an open-source project... go contribute some :P Copenhagen_Bram: Sorry, I didn't mean to come off like that. I guess it might be hard to implement non-ISO languages. Copenhagen_Bram: Thanks for all the work you've done. Copenhagen_Bram: I wonder... What kind of basic mods do beginner modders usually make? Copenhagen_Bram: What's the "Program tic tac toe" of Minetest modding? 11G​reenXenith: The Hello World of Minetest modding is to register a node and place it. The tic tac toe of Minetest could be any number of things, from making a new biome, spawning some decorations, making some interactable node, or literally tic tac toe. Copenhagen_Bram: hmm. Do people use Lua IDEs when modding Minetest? Copenhagen_Bram: s/modding/writing mods for/ 04L​one_Wolf: I use VSCode with the Minetest extension * cheapie: just uses a text editor, never really saw the point of IDEs 04L​one_Wolf: Wouldn't recommend it for slower PCs though. Sublime Text is better for those 04L​one_Wolf: My ide runs a luacheck extension 04L​one_Wolf: Catches 80% of all of my errors cheapie: In my case that text editor is Pluma, just because that's what my DE came with. It does everything I want it to do, so I don't really see a need for anything else. 11G​reenXenith: For people that spend all day every day programming, IDEs have a lot of convenient features. 11G​reenXenith: Automatic error checking, auto-completion, boilerplates, etc aldum: wow, there's a minetest mod for vscode, good to know Copenhagen_Bram: I wish I knew enough programming to spend all day doing it aldum: you don't need to know it do it :P 11G​reenXenith: I need to update that extension eventually, I think its a Minetest version out of date 11G​reenXenith: And I need to come up with a better way to generate snippets rubenwardy: !book lua MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Getting Started - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/basics/getting_started.html rubenwardy: MinetestBot! MinetestBot: rubenwardy! aldum: what's the bot written in? 11G​reenXenith: Python raisinraisin: Hello! Out of curiosity, what's the point of copper, tin, bronze, and bronze tools? In every world I've played in so far, I end up making steel tools and never end up making bronze ones, since iron becomes available at basically the same time tin and copper do. Thanks. :3 (also, I'm relatively new to this type of game, so forgive if I missed raisinraisin: something) specing: their purpose is to clutter the crafting guide specing: and yes, my experience is the same specing: and the question can be extended to 3darmor as well raisinraisin: 3darmor? raisinraisin: Ah, I'm also curious about good methods of not getting lost, and getting back to the surface from diamond-tier depths. |3 rubenwardy: the Minetest Game craft tree is a bit broken rubenwardy: bronze existed in real life due to a combination of trade routes existing (that connected copper and tin rich regions) and due to technology (making strong iron weapons is harder, I think?) rubenwardy: by existed, I mean as an age specing: raisinraisin: do you play singleplayer only? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Replace some sounds with new sounds (#2605) 13befed55 https://git.io/JULn8 (152020-08-29T00:16:36Z) raisinraisin: specing: so far, yes specing: raisinraisin: boring specing: on pretty much all mp servers, the way back is /spawn, /home, the home inventory button and travelnets specing: raisinraisin: also: ladders and ropes raisinraisin: good idea, about ladders specing: ropes are way better, but iirc ladders are in default game raisinraisin: Oh yeah, I'm reminded of a bug (I don't have a GitHub account: if you guys have a mailing list I'll send it in there) The second line of the debug string, (accessed by F5 by default) which is intended to appear as your position, angle, etc, only shows up right if I start Minetest from uxterm. raisinraisin: What a coincidence, looks like there've been commits around that lately. raisinraisin: I guess it makes sense, since it uses a degree symbol. * raisinraisin: nods. raisinraisin: Not sure how locale works in C++ but it'd be pleasant if there were strings for display in the C locale and POSIX locale. Flitzpiepe: Hello everyone mangul: Doxygen is really useful in such a big project shangul: Flitzpiepe, Hi :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add vector.offset (#10321) 1328e87ce https://git.io/JULHg (152020-08-29T15:41:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Make bgcolor tint button background images (#9818) 139976f36 https://git.io/JULH2 (152020-08-29T15:41:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Prevent players accessing inventories of other players (#10341) 133693b68 https://git.io/JULHa (152020-08-29T15:41:03Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Document normalmap textures (#10096) 13386d5f7 https://git.io/JULHK (152020-08-29T15:43:09Z) specing: Minetest performs very poorly on a 160 MHz CPU specing: 2 FPS :P rubenwardy: not especially surprising rubenwardy: you could try optimising it for that hardware by removing a lot of dependency specing: rubenwardy: is there a no-gui client? Like for chatting only? Krock: specing: also doesn't work well on 2008 integrated laptop graphics rubenwardy: there's not rubenwardy: you can use --terminal if you host the server specing: the hardware is 3.6Ghz intel, I just limited it to 10% rubenwardy: or you can find an IRC/Discord bridge mangul: With what I am trying to achieve, it is possible to have a chat-only client. But many servers kick you if you don't move. And if you set your chat-only client to move or jump randomly, that is cheating I think and not a good idea. Krock: moving 0.1m in any direction back and forth would be enough Krock: probably mangul: Yeah mangul: But it isn't a good idea to connect a client to a server like rubenwardy's CTF just for chatting. mangul: Discord/IRC bridge are much better Conradish006: When I set the spawn on my server, it doesn't move the respawn location, so you respawn in the middle of nowhere. Anybody know how o fix this? rubenwardy: ##minetest-ctf rubenwardy: or the Discord mangul: rubenwardy, yeah MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EvidenceBKidscode -> 03minetest/minetest: Add compass HUD element (#9312) 135c4b560 https://git.io/JULbb (152020-08-29T18:13:30Z) Verticen: Hey, where is the default texture pack textures located? sfan5: by default minetest uses the textures included in the mod or game Verticen: Yeah. I'm looking for the MTGame textures, where are they? There isn't a MTG folder in .Minetest > games sfan5: probably //usr/share/minetest/games then Verticen: Thank you! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix dropped craftitems/tools not using light_source values (#9438) 13c18dbad https://git.io/JUtIV (152020-08-29T23:02:21Z) shangul: What is purpose of TOCLIENT_REMOVENODE? Deletion of some node around the player at all or just telling the client the node which it had requested for deletion via TOSERVER_REMOVENODE now has been removed? sfan5: shangul: it functions for both shangul: Then I wonder why it doesn't receive any REMOVENODE message from server... shangul: Should client send some sort of message to server to subscribe to this sort of messages(REMOVENODE and ADDNODE)? shangul: Who has written this part? I'd better ask them. rubenwardy: try tracing the code? shangul: I did rubenwardy: You can search for uses of that enum value shangul: the_game() rubenwardy: and then see what functions send it rubenwardy: the_game won't sent TOCLIENT_* rubenwardy: because it is the client shangul: Then I wonder why it doesn't **receive** any REMOVENODE message from server... rubenwardy: if you can't find any server uses, then it's probably unused rubenwardy: whilst a lot of legacy has been removed, some may remain shangul: There is a function handleCommand_RemoveNode in network/clientpackethandler.cpp shangul: Which is not called when I remove a node near my client rubenwardy: it's sent by Server::sendRemoveNode shangul: hmm shangul: that might help shangul: grep's -r is very good :)) rubenwardy: which is called by an event queue in AsyncRunStep, with the event vode MEET_REMOVENODE rubenwardy: which is emitted by Map::removeNodeWithEvent rubenwardy: etc rubenwardy: looks like the packet is only triggered by minetest.remove_node shangul: rubenwardy, Thanks. I hope that your hints help. rubenwardy: (the lua API function) rubenwardy: having tools to find usages and go to definitions is essential in a large code base shangul: then it is natural that I don't receive REMOVENODE rubenwardy: yeah, if no mods call "remove_node" shangul: rubenwardy, Do I need more than "grep" and "vim"? sfan5: rubenwardy: core.node_dig has a remove_node call rubenwardy: I use an IDE rubenwardy: vim does provide "go to definition" rubenwardy: not sure about find uses shangul: I find definition with "grep -r" and then view it with "vim" rubenwardy: there's a way of allowing you to go to a definition just by hitting a key whilst hovering over some code like `thing.definitionYouWantToFind();` rubenwardy: ctrl+] I think rubenwardy: but whatever works shangul: I am tired now. So I'll read your hints more carefully later. sleep time :) rubenwardy: take care shangul: And again thanks for the hints shangul: Good afternoon :) shangul: I am not 100% sure but it seems that server does not send TOCLIENT_REMOVENODE to client at all. shangul: Then the question is that how a client realizes that a node has been removed? The only way is by comparing new and old Map? rubenwardy: it does, we traced the code to show that rubenwardy: do you have two clients open? shangul: Yeah I had shangul: and I realized handleCommand_RemoveNode is never called shangul: (In 5.3.0) shangul: I might be wrong because I couldn't sleep shangul: oh wait shangul: my check might be wrong shangul: ok shangul: I was wrong shangul: handleCommand_RemoveNode *is* called upon removal of a node around. Herkules: Hello :) I have a modding question: Is it possible to change the look of a single node in the world? Herkules: For example: I have a black node "mymod:mynode". I place a bunch of them. Now i rightclick one of them, it changes the black "texture1.png" to a white "texture2.png", but still remains "mymod:mynode" and it only effects the node i rightclicked. sfan5: no Herkules: Okay so do i need to make a new node for every texture i have? sfan5: essentially, yes Herkules: Ok thank you. :) Can a may ask why? What the design decision is? Is there a doc for that? sfan5: the main argument is greater complexity if every node could look different depending on its metadata sfan5: there have been some suggestions on the bugtracker so support for this may come one day Herkules: oh okay now i know. ty :) Herkules: I also have another question. ':) Herkules: I also have another question: If i use the a node with signlike drawtype, put and put it on a wall, run minetest.swap_node(...) with another signlike drawtype node. How could i keep the rotation? sfan5: pass the same param2 as the old node Andrey01: hello Andrey01: does anybody know how to change color of the main menu background with using GUISkin? rubenwardy: you can't, because it's not drawn using guiskin rubenwardy: the blue background is in guiengine or somewhere else, I forget rubenwardy: the grey background is a bgcolor Andrey01: do you mean 'guiengine' are guiEngine.h and .cpp? rubenwardy: yeah Andrey01: thanks, I will try to search out in that file nisa_: Hi. nisa_: Hmm, is this the wrong channel? It's not the one synched to discord nisa_: Oh nvm Genshin: Howdy Krock: hey Genshin Krock: when's the next amazing screenshot to expect? Genshin: Hello Krock, how are you? Krock: I'm fine. thank you. how about you? Genshin: Well. speaking of that X) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itWgEnqb5ug Genshin: Been doing fine, managed to find a way to make events when right clicking a player Krock: disappointed. expected a rick roll, but instead I got a preview of more incredible gameplay Genshin: lmao Krock: btw, what does AOE stand for? Genshin: Area of Effect Genshin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_of_effect Krock: creepy penguin in the screenshot, but the concept looks interesting Genshin: on that video whenever that NPC casts a AoE, it shows a marker telling players how wide the area of effect is. and anything within that radius will be affected (except for the caster of course) Genshin: also works with group healing mechanics with a green marker as well Genshin: red marker tends to be used for damage type AoE Genshin: This mechanic works on both players and npcs alike Krock: perhaps effect strength should fade out close to the border? Genshin: hmm, that may be good for damage type AoE or Group Healing type AoE Genshin: I also added a kill type AoE for challenging reasons X) Krock: but effects always need a counter - more armor, or resistance Genshin: yeah, still working on the stats behind that X) Genshin: Krock, here's another thing that I've been working on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtzILeR0eWs Krock: :'D dropdown menu Krock: if it'll stay this simple, you might want to use dropdown[] for speed reasons (no formspec resend) Genshin: Krock, this menu only resends the formspec when player is clicking the buttons at navigation, except for the selected category and the inventory nav selection Genshin: when pressing the contents from the list-based dropdown, it will take the player to it's specified pages Genshin: at the moment, they can only send a chat message confirming that the selection was pressed without resending the formspec X) Krock: chat messages are slightly delayed too Genshin: hmm, well the chat messages are there for debug purpose. hopefully the delay wouldn't be a huge problem MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Mapgen: Fix on-by-default flags broken since eca6ee9 (#10318) 13d28f1b0 https://git.io/JULsm (152020-08-28T22:14:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix luacheck warnings in builtin/common/tests (#10322) 13454009a https://git.io/JULsY (152020-08-28T22:14:19Z) Zughy: hey there; would it be too heavy having a continue raycast for every player online? I'm working on a shooter and it'd be great to see an enemy's life only when the cursor is hovering them rubenwardy: depends a lot on the range rubenwardy: but most likely rubenwardy: you could run it less frequently maybe? rubenwardy: or try it and look at a profile rubenwardy: Minetest has a mod profiler. It's per callback and mod, rather than per function, but it can be useful sfan5: have you considered making that function a CSM? Zughy: And here is where I lose both of you. Do you mean the F5 thingy? sfan5: no, ruben means this one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1618 Zughy: oh, got it. And by CSM do you mean having people downloading a modded client? sfan5: not a whole client, just the client-side mod Zughy: I love Minetest because people don't need to download anything to play on a server. I'd really like to avoid that Zughy: people are lazy Zughy: rubenwardy: would you mind pointing me the mod inside ctf that creates the life above the players' head? I found the part for the nicknames, but I can't seem to find the other one :\ rubenwardy: guages rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest-mods/gauges/ rubenwardy: CTF uses a modified version of this rubenwardy: I forget what it changes Zughy: ooooh, thank ya shangul: I just noticed that ugly character's picture was not my mistake. The subgame was like this and with mtg, it's fine. shangul: Now the bot automatically respawns when it dies shangul: yay! I have a jumping useless bot now :D shangul: Hello again. 1. What is purpose of TOCLIENT_BLOCKDATA? 2. I have put a "cout" in Client::ProcessData() and my client has never received a REMOVENODE(0x21) from server(I dug a Node using another client). How can I solve this? shangul: Err. I placed a node too but didn't receive 0x21 or 0x22(ADDNODE and REMOVENODE) sfan5: toclient_blockdata transfers an entire MapBlock (16x16x16 nodes) shangul: sfan5, Thank you. Can I realize removing or addition of a Node through it? sfan5: if you compare it to the map data you already have, sure shangul: That's expensive. Is it to replace REMOVENODE or ADDNODE? shangul: I am sorry. I had to check the developer wiki for BLOCKDATA first... MinetestBot: 02[git] 04karamel59 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve set_texture_mod documentation (#10339) 131eaff3d https://git.io/JUICP (152020-08-27T19:48:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04karamel59 -> 03minetest/minetest: Lua API: Register missing get_texture_mod function (#10338) 13d052593 https://git.io/JUICX (152020-08-27T19:47:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: drop simple MainMenu (#10227) 13788f297 https://git.io/JUIC1 (152020-08-27T19:46:57Z) Viper: hi, is there shortcut to enable/disable pitch move mode? sfan5: yes, P Out`Of`Control: sfan5: i need donate to get key? :D sfan5: ? Out`Of`Control: was a joke Out`Of`Control: sfan5: can you please tell me what is shortcut to enable/disable pitch move mode Out`Of`Control: by acident i enable, can't figure out what key combo sfan5: it's the P key sfan5: like I said Out`Of`Control: sfan5: haha i see that as a smile Out`Of`Control: ok P sfan5: oh :D Out`Of`Control: ty Krock: donate first fluxflux: e.g. https://minetest-bower.herokuapp.com/mods/craft_table fluxflux: oops fluxflux: sorry wrong window MinetestBot: Darcidride: Aug-25 07:07 UTC hey, why did you shutdown your servers? lack of money/interest? i'm curious, sorry :) shangul: Is it a "must" that client retrieve media stuff from server? rubenwardy: there's also remote media rubenwardy: over HTTP shangul: But media "must" be received by client at all. right? rubenwardy: yes rubenwardy: there is also a cache rubenwardy: wait - you don't have to get the media if you don't use it rubenwardy: like, if it doesn't render at all rubenwardy: you can just tell the server that you already have all media in the cache shangul: rubenwardy, hmm that's very good. How can I do that? rubenwardy: shangul: there's probably a packet to tell the server that the client has finished loading media rubenwardy: \o/ shangul: hmm shangul: In client/clientopcodes.cpp I have found just TOCLIENT_BLOCKDATA and TOCLIENT_MEDIA shangul: Imagine shangulbot on ruben's CTF killing all enemies who become close to base! shangul: :D shangul: Or imagine a bot war server(something like robocode.sf.net) eeerungur: there are minetest bots? shangul: eeerungur, Unfortunately no. I was just expressing my imaginations :) eeerungur: shangul: it's a cool idea. :) shangul: I think so, too :) rubenwardy: pls no cheating rubenwardy: get good by actually getting good eeerungur: i wasn't thinking about cheating. eeerungur: i like the idea of bots as npcs. eeerungur: are there any good lua bots? shangul: pls no cheating -> It is not cheating. Coding a good PvP bot especially in Minetest is an uneasy and complex job. shangul: Even with a good bot framework rubenwardy: perhaps scheduled tests could occur shangul: But I don't want to do anything with your server if you don't want that. shangul: And till now we even don't have a bot which just connects to server and sits there. daniel__: hi shangul: bye shangul: \o/ shangul: _o/ shangul: \o_ shangul: :D shangul: After a few days, now I have a bot which connects to server successfully(and does nothing after that). Corey[m]: hmm, you're writing a minetest agent? (bot) shangul: Not exactly. I am trying to get a minetest bot framework out of minetest code... shangul: Only a crazy person like me may do this with about zero knowledge... eeerungur: shangul: your bot spawns a character in game? Corey[m]: Well I had the same idea, but didn't have the time to pursue it 3; shangul: eeerungur, I don't know. let me check. it should do Corey[m]: I believe the bot would just act like a normal player connecting to the server shangul: yeah Corey[m]: the only difference is it would be controlled by the AI Corey[m]: but are you doing this at the network level or just a client side mod in minetest? shangul: yeah and bot owners better append "bot" to their nick and use it as their bot's name shangul: Corey[m], network level Corey[m]: oof, you'll have to emulate the physics engine I think Corey[m]: I believe the physics calculation is done client side, correct me if I'm wrong shangul: No idea I am not a Minetest developer at all. shangul: Never touched engine's code before this eeerungur: shangul: it would be cool if you could just make a player walk around in a circle or something. eeerungur: basic proof of concept. eeerungur: you know like those turtle games kids play to learn coding. Corey[m]: walking around in a circle would be an accomplishment, I'd say a proof of concept is the player just jumping eeerungur: the bot wouldn't necessarily have to see the world and react to it, you could just code animations. eeerungur: Corey[m]: true. a bot player joining and doing a jump would be great. eeerungur: i'm imagining building a stage and having bot actors. they move around the stage saying their lines at the right time. :) eeerungur: https://archive.codeplex.com/?p=logo eeerungur: like logo, but instead of moving a turtle around a screen, you move a minetest player around. eeerungur: that could be a cool educational toy. eeerungur: shangul: what language are you using? shangul: eeerungur, As I said before I'm not writing much new. I am just trying to extract a bot framework out of minetest code. shangul: Currently it looks like this: http://92.222.41.125/users/farooqkz/screenshot_20200826_185818.png eeerungur: nice. :) shangul: No it is ugly :( shangul: But I will work on it eeerungur: good for you. newbie41: ck twoelk twoelk: actally there had been npc like objects floating about in the past twoelk: one called "luigi" was used to make a copy of the surface of the redcrab server twoelk: the explore_map mod was along similar ideas https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2950 eeerungur: interesting. thanks twoelk. twoelk: most servers banned map surveying bots though DS-minetest: is it somehow possible to recompile minetest with puc lua (ie. switching between PUC lua and luajit) without deleting the cmakecache.txt file? Krock: modify the Makefile manually Krock: and delete compiled .o files if necessary DS-minetest: maybe I should ask differently: what is the easiest way to switch between luajit and not luajit? Krock: link dynamically and attempt to LD_PRELOAD overwrite the library Krock: works as long both libraries have the same functions, which does AFAIK not apply to 100% for Lua/LuaJIT DS-minetest: so, it does not work 100%? Krock: try it. I wouldn't be too confident DS-minetest: getting a segfault in luaJIT_setmode DS-minetest: I guess I'll just copy the minetest dir (without all the mods and worlds though) Krock: why? specify another build dir Krock: same source, different build options. is very handy when switching between release and debug builds DS-minetest: how can I do this? DS-minetest: with the --build option in cmake? Krock: DS-minetest: instead of cmake . it's cmake /path/to/build/dir Krock: not sure though. I always use cmake-gui... DS-minetest: I've found out how to do it DS-minetest: I have to use cmake /path/to/minetest in the build dir DS-minetest: but there mustn't be a "in-source build" DS-minetest: which means I need to rename the cmakecache file when i create the "out-of-source build" DS-minetest: anyway, thanks for your help! :) * DS-minetest: really needs to learn how to use cmake at some point Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! DS-minetest: mmh, deleting cmakecache.txt wasn't enough DS-minetest: it uses 2 src/cmake_config.h now Menchers: can edit CMakeCache.txt Menchers: erm, wait, I think there's a knob specifically for choosing this Menchers: ENABLE_LUAJIT:BOOL Menchers: can just turn that on and off DS-minetest: Menchers: yeah, that's not the problem Menchers: hm, it doesn't update the library paths? Menchers: there are LUA_INCLUDE_DIR and LUA_LIBRARY DS-minetest: anyway, I do know now how I want to handle it Menchers: ok DS-minetest: how can I easily find out what all the files are that were automatically generated by cmake (and remove them)? Menchers: I'm not sure if there's an easy way to do that * DS-minetest: just sees that there's a ".DS_Store" in minetest's .gitignore. This is surely meant for me. Menchers: the hacky way I reset everything (only works with git) is rm -rf *; git reset --hard Menchers: make really sure you're in the proper dir with that rm :P DS-minetest: Menchers: yeah, but that also removes worlds and mods Menchers: it doesn't hose any dotfiles so git can restore everything fro .git Menchers: ah, yes, if you have those in-tree Menchers: that would be a problem Krock: it doesn't remove worlds if they're git-ignored Krock: or unversioned AFAIK Menchers: ? Menchers: the rm would Krock: anyway, use symlinks Krock: ah yes, but not git reset --hard Menchers: I just don't keep stuff in my work tree generally Menchers: was going to suggest git status, but that doesn't show stuff that's listed in .gitignore :/ DS-minetest: git reset --hard also doesn't remove the cmake stuff Menchers: yeah I think that just restores files to their committed state Menchers: it doesn't delete anything Menchers: whether it is ignored or not (I think) Menchers: not positive on that last thing Menchers: my personal setup is to install it to $HOME/.local and add $HOME/.local/bin to my PATH Menchers: though, this only works for one minetest :/ DS-minetest: I use a bash alias Menchers: if you have a variant that still uses minetest's pathnames one of them's going to have to be RUN_IN_PLACE or installed to a different prefix DS-minetest: :sweat_smile: DS-minetest: hm, I could just comment out the ## Build files lines in .gitignore and then reset --hard Menchers: I could maybe change all the pathnames to be minetest-5/minetest-6 instead of minetest, so I could have a couple variants installed side by side Menchers: that may be rather involved though Menchers: I'll just keep one RUN_IN_PLACE, it's the lazy solution DS-minetest: ok, removing cmake stuff by removing it from .gitignore, adding it and resetting --hard worked well DS-minetest: or maybe not... DS-minetest: there's still a CMakeFiles folder DS-minetest: only contains empty folders DS-minetest: git... DS-minetest: hm, while the minetest binary is created in the minetest_src/bin folder, the output of make doc is in the build dir DS-minetest: the cmake build dir thing Menchers: CMakeFiles is important Menchers: er Menchers: nvm Menchers: was confusing it with CMakeLists.txt DS-minetest: why are some cmake options (like CUSTOM_LOCALEDIR) not documented in the README ? sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ DS-minetest: can I somehow find out in a mod whether there's puc lua or luajit (without measuring time) DS-minetest: ? DS-minetest: (tried _VERSION but it always says "Lua 5.1") sfan5: rawget(_G, "jit") ~= nil DS-minetest: oh, I didn't know that this existed, thanks! eraldev: Hi. eraldev: How much resources i need to host minetest server for 15, 40, 80, 100 players? eraldev: I tried to search, but not find any info Emerald2: It does somewhat depend on what mods you use, as well. BuckarooBanzai: eraldev: as Emerald2 said: it depends on your mods, but if you are only using mods that are decorative and don't use background cpu (like technic, mesecons, advtrains, etc) you can run easily on a 2GHz cpu with 2 gb's of ram and 40 players eraldev: BuckarooBanzai: do u know mod technic? eraldev: Oh sorry) BuckarooBanzai: yes, pretty good actually. You are gonna have problems if you want to have that much players with technic though (at least the "stock" version of it) eraldev: I use technic and advtrain eraldev: Other mods is decorative mods BuckarooBanzai: i recommend a multiplayer optimized version of it: https://github.com/mt-mods/technic/ /end-shameless-plug BuckarooBanzai: advtrains has its issues too :( BuckarooBanzai: Those mods tend to use the cpu quite heavy on multiplayer servers, up to the point where it gets unplayable BuckarooBanzai: !tell Darcidride hey, why did you shutdown your servers? lack of money/interest? i'm curious, sorry :) MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when Darcidride is around Emerald2: Also don't put a bunch of technic stuff and entities in the spawn area if you don't want everyone to lag as soon as they log in. XD eraldev: BuckarooBanzai , if I use advtrains and mt-mods technic, can I host minetest server for 20 players on 1gb ram and 1 processor unit? LPKI_Ramen: hey) Emerald2: Hi LPKI. LPKI_Ramen: BuckarooBanzai: if I use advtrains and mt-mods technic, can I host minetest server for 20 players on 1gb ram and 1 processor unit? Emerald2: Ohhh you're eraldev. :P LPKI_Ramen: Yeah, I try use matrix.org chat) BuckarooBanzai: LPKI_Ramen: in my experience: no :P BuckarooBanzai: (not without heavy lag) LPKI_Ramen: BuckarooBanzai: how much players i can use on this conf?) BuckarooBanzai: at first this might work but the players will (ab)use the machines and trains more and more until you get noticeable lag spikes BuckarooBanzai: if everyone uses technic and train stuff, maybe 5 to 10 i guess LPKI_Ramen: I also noticed that when connecting from an android, there is a very slow media download. What could be the problem? LPKI_Ramen: The console swears at quotas LPKI_Ramen: BuckarooBanzai: Then I will use the server 16 RAM, 8 cores))) LPKI_Ramen: *16 Gb BuckarooBanzai: LPKI_Ramen: 7 of your 8 cores will be idling :) BuckarooBanzai: most of the main work will be done in one cpu core LPKI_Ramen: Lol, i think its true) shangul: To connect to a server on the same machine as client, what parameters should I pass to Client class constructor? shangul: my current code: https://termbin.com/tg40 sfan5: if you construct an Address yourself you probably don't even need to pass anything to the Client constructor sfan5: also try without the .Resolve() call shangul: sfan5, Thank for replying. What about 3rd argument of Client class constructor? sfan5: an empty string could work fine there sfan5: or perhaps not, in any case you should dig into the code to find out what it does with the argument shangul: I have constructed an "Address" object with "address(127, 0, 0, 1, 30000)" but when I try to get family of it with "address.getFamily()" I get 2 which is IPv6 not IPv4. How can I fix this? sfan5: huh? AF_INET is 2 shangul: err shangul: Now I am confused shangul: I give an IPv4 address object to client->connect and client is constructed with ipv6 = false. But after running my program I get "Socket and bind address families do not match"... shangul: I wonder where am I wrong sfan5: do you still have Resolve("localhost") in your code? shangul: No I don't. let me upload my code shangul: https://termbin.com/qt2e <- Because I am now so confused and also bored, others may see in my code what I don't see... sfan5: change the address you pass to the client constructor to "127.0.0.1" sfan5: because localhost resolves to ::1 which is not the same shangul: I did, the problem still exists shangul: the same problem shangul: Have I found a bug in the minetest code? UDPSocket.m_addr_family is supposed to be either AF_INET6 or AF_INET(see beginning of UDPSocket::init). But after I put some "cout"s in UDPSocket::Bind, I realized that m_addr_family is not AF_INET6 nor AF_INET but Zero and that's why my code does not work. The problem, however, might be in my code not minetest's. shangul: BTW, I am using Minetest 5.3.0 source code. shangul: You can see my code if you scroll a bit up or check logs shangul: The only line which initializes m_addr_family to zero is L72 of src/network/address.h shangul: oh! that's for Address class not UDPSocket shangul: Minetest uses GPU just for rendering or for other stuff such as math, too? shangul: Because you know, GPU is a good thing for several small calculations. rubenwardy: just rendering rubenwardy: and as Minetest is aimed at less powerful computers, it's light on GPU shangul: hmm thank you rubenwardy TomTom: any idea how to set the minclone2 setting "mcl_node_particles" to "none"? /set mcl_node_particles none does not work. is there an other way to do it? sfan5: /set -n mcl_node_particles none TomTom: thanks, but the particle effect (torches for example) is still there TomTom: probably a bug of mineclone2 sfan5: might have to restart the game TomTom: arghs, i also forgot how to get minecarts when they are deployed on a track TomTom: pickaxe from outside does not work Emerald2: Shift left click. eraldev: Can minetest use both ipv6 and ipv4 in one time? eraldev: Example: eraldev: Player1 use ipv4 eraldev: Player2 and player3 use ipv6 sfan5: yes shangul: I had to do sockets_init() and atexit(sockets_cleanup) before defining Client MinetestBot: 02[git] 04devnexen -> 03minetest/minetest: NetBSD build fix proposal. (#10308) 13b262184 https://git.io/JUUSV (152020-08-25T18:50:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04mntmn -> 03minetest/minetest: shaders: Fix transparency on GC7000L (#10036) 1344c9808 https://git.io/JUUSw (152020-08-25T18:49:51Z) eraldev: I want write a online on server on my website. Minetest have any json api for http? gry: no, but novnc might be interesting gry: sorry, i mean: I don't know about api, but novnc might be interesting (maybe api actually exists without me knowing) eraldev: Gry: do u have any links about novnc and minetest?) gry: its official homepage is https://novnc.com/info.html sfan5: the easiest way to do this would be to write a mod that saves the amount of online users in a temporary file and then e.g. a PHP script can read the number eraldev: Gry: U mean minetest web client for gaming? gry: yes eraldev: Minetest api can launch miniwebserver for api? gry: it is not an efficient solution, access will be difficult sfan5: it can't sfan5: but lua code can make http requests eraldev: Me just need write current online player count on website)) eraldev: Hmm, this is interesting. I want use serverless, maybe its work) gry: eraldev: I don't understand you. gry: eraldev: what does "" even -mean- ? gry: sfan5: hi, thank you sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5.3.0/doc/lua_api.txt#L5374 swift110: good how long you been playing minetest gry: Maybe just about a month. gry: Not every day. Just once a week. gry: My relative is playing the proprietary software that is similar. I am repeating all his steps in minetest, hoping that there will be something that wll invite him to switch. swift110: thats cool gry swift110: dont get your hopes up tho9ugh. peopole like to use what they aqre used to gry: it would be cheaper and easier to install updates for swift110: i know swift110: i want a side game thats like sim ant shangul: https://termbin.com/6mhz <- I have written this code which uses two files of minetest engine(as you see). My problem is that what files should I mention when compiling? because these two files have dependencies and dependencies again have dependencies and so on. Also I don't want to compile all the files. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Properly handle mod-errors in on_shutdown 13f27cf47 https://git.io/JUJTZ (152020-08-24T16:55:25Z) shangul: https://termbin.com/br5i https://termbin.com/ylui <- I have this CMakeLists.txt in src and this file as testing.cpp there. I have added another "add_executable" to the CMakeLists.txt which builds testing.cpp but when I try to compile them with "cmake ." and then "make" I get several errors from ld(linker) saying undefined reference to many GMP stuff like `__gmpz_export' and others. I have tried "-DENABLE_SYSTEM_GMP" and shangul: "-DGMP_INCLUDE_DIR" with cmake but I still get these errors from "ld". shangul: I want to compile testing.cpp shangul: I'll disconnect but I can check logs Darcidride: Hi all, MinetestForFun servers has been shutdown, but you can still retrieve our servers maps, it's made by the community, so we wanted to give them back to the community, more infos here : https://github.com/orgs/MinetestForFun/teams/devs/discussions/3?from_comment=14#discussion-3-comment-14 sfan5: can't view that discussion here Darcidride: crap :( Darcidride: TLDR; See messages above, the torrent file to share the community maps is available :) --> https://nextcloud.qbuissondebon.eu.org/s/jSrY42MTeWQjLfr Elouin: Iam currently trying to compile 5.3 but it fails at the linking and telling me that it cannot find -lintl even though ldconfig -r shows libintl being available. Any ideas? gry: Hi Elouin, is this debian? Elouin: gry no freebsd gry: ok, thank you. this is important part of your question. i think someone will help you soon. (i don't have enough knowledge for it) Elouin: disabled gettext now it worked. Elouin: gry: thanks for the fast answers. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Craftguide: Fix error caused by removing invalid recipes (#2732) 131da168b https://git.io/JUfU0 (152020-08-23T12:35:12Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04BenjaminRi -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix light overflow of u8 if light is saturated at 255 (#10305) 13f5a203f https://git.io/JUfIk (152020-08-23T13:39:55Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04devnexen -> 03minetest/minetest: Complete Haiku platform support. (#10311) 13cf55472 https://git.io/JUfII (152020-08-23T13:39:32Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04adrido -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix MSVC compiler warnings (#10197) 133c28906 https://git.io/JUfIO (152020-08-23T13:41:04Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Auto focus on OK button in main menu error messages (#10300) 134794879 https://git.io/JUfI3 (152020-08-23T13:40:34Z) Elouin: Has something changed with the default minetest directory in 5.3. it doesnt seem to recognize the things in .minetest Elouin: cant find games/worlds DS-minetest: Elouin: not that I knew of DS-minetest: Elouin: try starting a game and look into terminal (or debug.txt) where it says that your world is Emerald2: What install method did you use? Elouin: i compiled from source. Had to set DRUN_IN_PLACE to OFF in ccmake. now it works. Emerald2: OK great. :) Emerald2: Now I'm off for some hours. Elouin: Thanks for the answers. :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EvidenceBKidscode -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid drawing clipped out formspec elements (#10095) 13287f3fb https://git.io/JUfWN (152020-08-23T20:50:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Kezii -> 03minetest/minetest: darken tabheader background color (#10299) 133e5bce2 https://git.io/JUfWp (152020-08-23T20:50:45Z) swift110: hello gry: hi swift110 swift110: how r u gry gry: I'm ok Calinou: there isn't, as far as I know Calinou: not sure if server-side CSM could do that Calinou: but the server would still have to provide the client-side mod Calinou: the default anticheat prevents you from building outside the range defined by the block you're currently holding too shangul: Any client implementation of the minetest protocol available as a library/module for some programming language? Krock: alright then, we'll keep out secrets Krock: *our eeerungur: they waited a whole minute for an answer. Krock: yeah. that's like double times an eternity eeerungur: :) Talkless: minute is like 60,000 microseconds! Krock: no it's 60E6 microseconds Krock: ShadowBot: wb Krock: ShadowBot: not you Krock: shangul: wb shangul: Krock, Thank you :) Krock: also no, there's only Lua Krock: MinetestBot has a very basic Minetest protocol "ping" function Krock: and there's a wireshark "protocol description" file for debugging Talkless: Krock: sorry yes Y mean milliseconds Talkless: I* mangul: really bad internet connection :| shangul: Krock, Would that wireshark file be used to implement a client? Krock: not really, no. shangul: So the only way to implement the protocol is going through C++ source code. right? Krock: yes DrFrankenstone_: Is there a fork of minetest anywhere that's implemented simplex noise? rubenwardy: there is some rough protocol information shangul: Krock, Thanks for answering my questions :) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/protocol.txt Krock: yes, check out the doc/ directory rubenwardy: I've seen a python module with outdated MT networking support rubenwardy: I forget the name rubenwardy: there's also this: rubenwardy: https://github.com/andrewvy/knot rubenwardy: shangul: here's the python module: https://github.com/boppreh/minetesting mangul: hmm rubenwardy: it's outdated, but could be a good reference rubenwardy: oh, incrase you didn't see, I listed some other things shangul: I'll check logs. Thanks rubenwardy: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2020-08-22#i_5724328 shangul: thanks shangul: Heavy job for me. I might not be able to take it now. rubenwardy: yeah, it'll be a lot of work shangul: How about making a library from current C++ code?Would be less job I think. Wouldn't be? rubenwardy: sure, you could try that rubenwardy: it would work for the lower level protocol rubenwardy: as for op codes, you'd want to implement that yourself eeerungur: shangul: what are you planning to do with this? shangul: eeerungur, I'm not planning anything but I had a bot framework for minetest idea for a long time in my mind. eeerungur: sounds interesting. shangul: yeah but unsure about being practical shangul: https://dev.minetest.net/Network_Protocol <- Two broken links(client.cpp and server.cpp) Krock: a lot is broken on the wiki hisforever: Hi when I hit f7 I could change personal views but in mt 5.03 its not working, did they remove that function? Krock: V Krock: there's no mt 5.03 hisforever: ok the newer one then Krock: ESC -> key change or press V hisforever: mt 5.3 hisforever: anyway when I'm on a train I use to be able t see myself driving with f7 hisforever: ok I'll check that hisforever: Thanks Krock your a great help shangul: Do mt client and server play ping pong together like IRC clients and servers do? Krock: yes shangul: nooooooo shangul: And does the Connection class handle that? Krock: connection.cpp L961 PING_TIMEOUT Krock: apparently it's not like IRC, but time-based Krock: CONTROLTYPE_DISCO sounds funny but is in fact about disconnecting shangul: disco :D shangul: I'm getting my feet wet to see what future brings. I may work on this thing a few days. shangul: How can I compile just the stuff in network/ and whatever those files there need? rubenwardy: grab the files, make your own cmakelist? shangul: rubenwardy, without making my own cmakelist? rubenwardy: not really possible rubenwardy: to build things differently, you need to change the build configuration Krock: if not cmakelist, then a normal makefile will be needed Krock: which I wouldn't recommend at all shangul: Thanks for your replies :) shangul: Any other channel better suited for this sort of questions? #minetest-dev maybe? Krock: No, this channel is fine shangul: ok Krock: -dev is really just Minetest development, not about related project Krock: ..s guzzi: p MinetestBot: darkwar: Aug-20 19:21 UTC Yes, there are many mods that connect minetest with other webservices darkwar: hello can someone help me with irc idk where put is soo it grants irc permisson access the server darkwar: something about secure/trusted_mods? Krock: darkwar: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1606-L1609 darkwar: thank you and do u know why my minetest.conf not connected to my server darkwar: anything i input in side of it dont read Krock: then move it to ~/.minetest/ darkwar: it is in .minetest darkwar: should i move it to .minetest/world/world? Krock: no, that won't help darkwar: alright Krock: so it loads the world from ~/.minetest/worlds/ ... ? darkwar: well my server in /.minetest/worlds/test darkwar: the config in .minetest Krock: your server is in /bin/ or /usr/bin darkwar: inside that /,minetest/minetest.conf but when i input secure.trusted_mods = irc says i did not put it in there darkwar: nether darkwar: inside home Krock: manual compile or package manager installation? wat's the RUN_IN_PLACE output for minetest --version ? darkwar: BUILD_TYPE=Release darkwar: RUN_IN_PLACE=0 darkwar: USE_GETTEXT=1 darkwar: USE_SOUND=1 darkwar: USE_CURL=1 darkwar: USE_FREETYPE=1 darkwar: USE_LUAJIT=1 darkwar: STATIC_SHAREDIR="/usr/share/minetest" darkwar: STATIC_LOCALEDIR="/usr/share/locale" Krock: pastebin is recommended darkwar: sorry XD Krock: seems alright. are you running the server under your username, or root? Krock: for latter: don't do it. darkwar: username darkwar: root dangerous Krock: what if you launch minetestserver using --config ~/.minetest/minetest.conf ? Krock: and including the world name, ofc darkwar: i try it Krock: kinda weird, because most clients use the same setup, and minetest.conf works for them darkwar: i know darkwar: XD darkwar: is there command to hard wipe minetest and start over? Krock: apt purge minetest darkwar: purge only wipes basic Krock: though that won't help darkwar: true darkwar: --config wont work Krock: last time I've heard something about that was due to wrong file permissions darkwar: i have full access darkwar: and i run everything with no root Krock: also try the setting "debug_log_level = verbose" in case chmod 777 didn't help Krock: just to make sure it's really not loaded darkwar: is there away i can disable secure Krock: you need a minetest.conf file for that darkwar: lol kinda hard when dont work XD darkwar: i going try something darkwar: looks like the file was corrupted some how darkwar: i deleted it from the storage and going re install darkwar: alright i got minetest.conf darkwar: i going test it darkwar: nothing darkwar: https://pastebin.com/g0Neej5q darkwar: Krock darkwar: and says it not in there darkwar: >.> Krock: > secure.trusted_mods = irc' Krock: error near ' darkwar: how is that err darkwar: is there space? Krock: there's a tailing appostrophe darkwar: secure.trusted_mods = irc darkwar: just like that Krock: that's not what you pasted darkwar: i know darkwar: i fixed it then sent it to u darkwar: https://pasteboard.co/JnACpwR.png darkwar: https://pastebin.com/2BcdejrH darkwar: kinda driving me nuts tbh XD darkwar: Krock is it my file system or something? darkwar: idk why its not working Krock: FYI: secure.trusted_mods is duplicated Krock: I don't know. set it up using a client and copy over the configuration files and world darkwar: alright Krock: EOT darkwar: is there away i can add irc and skinsdb to secure trusted mods? darkwar: said thing is this is my client server XD heavygale: client server,…right darkwar: i testing serverything on my client server befor upload heavygale: kk :D darkwar: huh heavygale: you can't habe secure.trusted_mods multiple times in your config darkwar: i deleted it darkwar: now i only got one heavygale: ok darkwar: and it still not working darkwar: well i keep testing softwares figure it out thx for the help eraldev: Hello) snail68: Hi all. I'm a newbie. Downloaded minetest for andriod. Previosuly I've played minecraft. I can make worlds and mine stuff but can't work out how to craft stuff. The docs refer to a "Three dots icon " which doesn't appear on my screen. There's an "Aux' button that doesn't seem to do anything though. specing: step one: get a real computer specing: step two: press i snail68: Oh, I'm playing 5.3.0 snail68: Are you saying that the andriod build is non-fucntional? gry: my younger brother managed to use the android app, but i haven't tried it, so can't comment snail68: Is a bluetooth keyboard likely to work with an andriod device? gry: yes snail68: OK, thanks. rubenwardy: snail68: https://i.imgur.com/0dkdPeM.png rubenwardy: it's on the left Argentus: Hello guys, what would be the right way to set a block's param2 in its on_construct callback? If I use set node function on the position, it understandably goes into an endless loop calcul0n: Argentus, use after_place_node + set_node i think Argentus: calcul0n I thought about that, but liked the universality of the construct function. But I guess it's either this or a conditional check in the construct function. Thanks bebebeko: pyrollo: my congratulations! pyrollo: thx :) eeerungur: i've got a mineclone survival server and i want to remove player names entirely. eeerungur: unlimited_player_transfer_distance = false eeerungur: that's doesn't seem to work. rubenwardy: you need to use a mod rubenwardy: !mod playertag MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Player Nametags [playertags] by LMD - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20339 - https://github.com/appgurueu/playertags rubenwardy: the other one rubenwardy: !mod [playertag] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Entity based nametags [playertag] by sparky - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19401 - https://github.com/Elkien3/playertag eeerungur: it can't be done with config? eeerungur: rubenwardy: that looks more like a mod for adding name tags. rubenwardy: that removes nametags and makes them physically in game - you need to be right next to the player to see it rubenwardy: you can also remove them completely with a 3 line mod eeerungur: the 3 line mod sounds good. eeerungur: i want people to be able to hide from others. rubenwardy: minetest.register_on_joinplayer(function(player) player:set_nametag_attributes({ color = "#00000000" }) end) ShadowBot: rubenwardy: Error: That URL raised eeerungur: thanks rubenwardy. rubenwardy: not tested Calinou: (note that a hacked client could still see nametags this way, there's not much you could do about it) rubenwardy: (yeah) Calinou: unless the server is made not to send player names at all if the color is fully transparent, which makes sense Calinou: I'd use that in conjunction with unlimited_player_transfer_distance = false to minimize the impact of an hacked client DS-minetest: Does someone here know how to properly do benchmarking in lua? DS-minetest: Just measuring a small piece of code once would be pretty inaccurate. But if I execute it multiple times in a loop, it gets much more faster (in luajit at least). DS-minetest: ie. 2000 times faster eeerungur: wow DS-minetest: I could copy the code piece a few hundred times, maybe that will work. Krock: depends what you want to benchmark DS-minetest: I want to benchmark the new vectors in #9612. ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9612 -- Add a metatable for vectors by Desour DS-minetest: Btw. https://dev.minetest.net/Lua_Optimization_Tips#Prefer_lua_newtable.28.29_to_lua_createtable.28.29 says to prefer lua_newtable() to lua_createtable(). But the opposite was done in #9669. ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9669 -- scriptapi: Some small optimizations to value pushing by sfan5 sfan5: didn't even know we had that page sfan5: > but it has a very negative effect on the cache for situations where the performance improvement would have otherwise made a difference. sfan5: could mean "if you preallocate but the table ends up being empty, you have wasted time" Andrey: hello heavygale: hi Andrey: what range of reach does the player hand have and is it possible to change that? GreenXenith: The default range of any tool is 4 nodes sfan5: and yes it can be changed, both globally and per-player Andrey: ok, but how? DS-minetest: Andrey: look into how creative does it for globally (idk how it can be done per player) Andrey: ok, thanks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add simplified version of 'craftguide' mod, named 'mtg_craftguide' (#… 135d0e4ae https://git.io/JJjAA (152020-08-21T23:20:58Z) specing: is there a client-side "worldedit"? specing: i.e. place two markers and material into inventory and let it loose? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Add gradients and borders to FormSpec boxes (#8676) 1383d0c36 https://git.io/JJAXt (152020-08-20T01:14:47Z) Argentus: What is the right way to set a node's param2 in its on_construct callback? It seems calling set_node on its own position makes it an infinite loop and I haven't found a better function to set only the param MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix missing translation call in hypertext (#10296) 137128789 https://git.io/JJxJx (152020-08-20T10:25:02Z) Emerald2: Heard you became a core dev, pyrollo. Well done. :) pyrollo: Thx:) Now diving into issue list guzzi: went grom 30 fps on windows to 60 fps on ubuntu linux with 5.3 guzzi: walking up and down stairs seems to crush fps on windows in nodecore guzzi: it affects linux a bit as well but the higher fps makes it unnoticable Miniontoby: hey everyone Miniontoby: I want some help later on Miniontoby: I want to do free mt hosting on openbsd vps-en Miniontoby: I want to some help to build it Miniontoby: please contact me Miniontoby: im not always here but i am always at my irc Miniontoby: miniontoby.us5.ircnow.org port 6697 with ssl Miniontoby: #miniontoby eeerungur: why would people join your personal irc just to help you? Miniontoby: because I have bouncer there Miniontoby: not here Miniontoby: and It is on that vps or some other Miniontoby: #minetest it is (correction) Miniontoby: I should ask why not Miniontoby: im going Miniontoby: i need to stop now Miniontoby: so see ya all later eeerungur: odd rubenwardy: whether or not you have a bouncer doesn't effect us joining your personal IRC Emerald2: Ahh the impatience of the young. :p Corey[m]: I have a feeling I just missed something fun, curse you work! Menche: lol Menche: pretty sure IRCNow's bouncers can connect to freenode MinetestBot: 02[git] 04semarie -> 03minetest/minetest: Define environ variable on OpenBSD (#10302) 139c73401 https://git.io/JJhXz (152020-08-20T17:10:58Z) Conradish006: Hey guys! While I was on my server recently, there was a screwup that happened with worldedit, and since nobody had played that day or the day before. I figured it was okay to restore to a backup from the previous day. While it was "restoring" to a backup, it suddenly said "failed" and then went back to the MMC. I tried to start the server, but it failed to start every time. I open minetest.conf, and there was Conradish006: nothing. I opened the news.txt and there was nothing. After contacting the server host, she attempted to restore to an older backup. And minetest.conf, and the news.txt reappeared. But the map file is still corrupted, if possible I would like to salvage the map file because there was a fair amount of stuff built already. If anybody has an ideas on how to salvage the map file, or how to correct the backup issu Conradish006: es, please let me know, as the server has already been down for quite a while, and I'd love to get it back up ASAP. Conradish006: Ugh, it sent multiple messages Conradish006: Here is the errors it's spitting when trying to start the server https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgSAao8Auv_pkVEm7DZHb6OBA8dl sfan5: don't you have older backups? also what exactly is the error when you try to load the map? sfan5: nvm to the last question Conradish006: We tried to restore to older backups, yet the same issue happens every time. sfan5: uh sfan5: do you still have the database file before you restored from the backup? Conradish006: I can see Conradish006: I am very annoyed with myself though, because I was going to start downloading a copy of the map file every week to my PC Conradish006: I just hadn't yet eeerungur: ouch. sfan5: have you ever confirmed that the backups worked correctly? Conradish006: No, foolish on my part eeerungur: Conradish006: btw, i have a nice backup script that takes copies of the sqlite data without having to shut down, i'll dig it up if you're interested (for future use). Conradish006: I believe thats how it was running, because it never shut down to backup eeerungur: copying a running sqlite file is dodgy Conradish006: Please excuse me, I am still learning the "lingo" and not very familiar with any of this. eeerungur: no worries. eeerungur: sqlite is a file based database. if you back it up but copying the file or zipping it you can get errors if the server is still running. eeerungur: there are sqlite tools that can make a safe copy while the server is running, which you can then back up. Conradish006: Not entirely sure how to interpret what you're saying, so I'll screenshot it and send it to my host. eeerungur: ok. simple version. if you have been backing up files on a live server, they might all be corrupted. eeerungur: sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Conradish006: I gathered that, but is it at all possible to repair the map file? eeerungur: that i don't know. eeerungur: sorry. Conradish006: Okay, thx for your help! Conradish006: 13:40 sfan5: "do you still have the database file before you restored from the backup?" Conradish006: My apologies I don't quite gather what you mean sfan5: from the point after the screwup with worldedit and before you tried to restore a backup Conradish006: sfan5: I don't believe so Conradish006: I can check with the server host tho darkwar: hello darkwar: can someone hel[p me? darkwar: is it possable connect a minetest server to a website Krock: impatient people SwissalpS: !tell darkwar Yes, there are many mods that connect minetest with other webservices MinetestBot: SwissalpS: I'll pass that on when darkwar is around MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Load media from subfolders (#9065) 1398faeac https://git.io/JJhQ7 (152020-08-20T20:25:29Z) MinetestBot: balirt: Jul-30 15:08 UTC yes, I know, but the entity is supposed to be destroyed as soon as player reference becomes invalid (i.e. player disconnects), so I want to check for that directly, instead for indirect signs that this is true balirt: good to know. balirt: is desour currently here? I found a tiny typo in the latest commit's documentation balirt: #9065 doc/lua_api.txt Line 234 purpous -> purpose ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9065 -- Load media from subfolders by Desour balirt: I know its terribly unimportant nickpicking I just read it by chance and figured it's a fresh commit balirt: nitpicking* balirt: maybe one day I'll make the most useless PR, only containing typo corrections gry: good morning eeerungur: hi. i've got a weird bug. i'm running a mineclone2 server with default privs set to shout and interact. when people join they can't interact until i grant them interact again, at which point interact is listed twice. eeerungur: anyone else seen this? bebebeko: Hey folks, i have downloaded 80% resources from resourcepack.net, I can share a link to that archive (4.5GB) but i'm not soure about licence and chat rules... pyrollo: Licensing is important. specing: bebebeko: no license = you aren't allowed to use it pyrollo: ... and we are not allowed to use your work also. bebebeko: okay, I thought so, so first I asked ;-) eeerungur: my conf file has.... eeerungur: default_privs = shout interact eeerungur: but when people join they can't do anything until i /grant user interact sfan5: you need a comma instead eeerungur: ah, thanks. :) specing: no errors when parsing? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up sound_fade (#10119) 135bda361 https://git.io/JJA4Y (152020-08-19T17:26:37Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Optimize formspec form size (#10144) 13471497f https://git.io/JJA62 (152020-08-19T23:13:29Z) DogHackit: Hi. Does anyone have a sever recommendation for someone just starting out? DogHackit: Probably not interested in PvP, perse Emerald2: Do you want machines, mobs, what kind of server? DogHackit: Machines sound interesting. I can take or leave mobs. DogHackit: Probably not too interested in PvP for my first server. Emerald2: Sorry DogHackit, got distracted figuring out dinner. Emerald2: One of the more active servers I've played on more recently was Epic Server, though I don't think that one has machines. Pandorabox does, and cool space stuff. Emerald2: If you like solving puzzles, try Inside the Box (just note it's not the kind of server you can build a house on and stuff, just solve and build puzzles). Emerald2: I don't really remember what other servers are like. LinuxForks has trains and tech stuff. DogHackit: Emerald2: Thank you. I will take a look at those. DogHackit: I appreciate the suggestions! Emerald2: Others will have experiences with other servers that are good. Emerald2: No problem. :) Emerald2: I don't play as much these days. DogHackit: I get that. I used to game a lot, and I figured this might be a nice, casual way to a least play something now and then Elouin: DogHackit: Illuna is nice, but maybe a bit overwhelming for the beggining. https://illuna-minetest.tk/ DogHackit: Elouin: Thank you. I will check that out as well. bebebeko: hey folks, sorry for n00b question, could anyone help me, what is best way/practice to search icons for tools/items/nodes? i mean, at this moment i'm using images.google.com and queries like '(minetest OR minecraft) pencil texture', is there a better way to do this? maybe some site-library with textures or smth else? in my case (at this moment) i don't care about licence, it's only for localhost bebebeko: (tests) purpose pyrollo: If it's for test purpose, you can just pick up a texture from minetest_game and color it if needed to differenciate it from other tools/items. bebebeko: pyrollo: thank, is there a way to bebebeko: "quickly" find pencil texture (for example) in minetest_game? pyrollo: Mmmh... no :) pyrollo: You could also use icons as textures if they are in PNG format bebebeko: pyrollo: yep, i'm already have tried this, mostly these pictures look ugly in mientest, if they weren't created for voxelgame engine (like minecraft,minetest) bebebeko: but anyway, thank you for help ;-) pyrollo: Your welcome, now you need to rely on your creativity:) Emerald2: There are sites like https://opengameart.org/ that have creative commons licensed media you can use. bebebeko: Emerald2: thank you for the tip iisu: Hi, I have a question about modding. iisu: Can I store additional data in an item and change its texture based on that data? iisu: I'm making an ice cream mod. I have 7 flavours of ice cream and I want to combine 3 balls of different flavours in a cup. iisu: That means 210 different items (without repetitions, or 343 with repeatitions). specing: you can store metadata specing: :set_string specing: but items will no longer stack iisu: That's alright, they're not supposed to stack anyway. iisu: I guess I can generate the textures with texture overlaying. iisu: How do I set the metadata when crafting an item? iisu: Let's say the general crafting recipe is group:flavor, group:flavor, group:flavor, but when using chocolate, mint, orange it should output ice cream with metadata: flavor1=chocolate, flavor2=mint, flavor3=orange specing: iisu: why not just have 210 different items? iisu: Cause that's a lot of different items. calcul0n_: you can use minetest.register_on_craft to set metadat specing: so what :P iisu: I don't wanna spam the crafting guide. calcul0n_: use not_in_creative_inventory group then calcul0n_: (or something like that, not sure about the name) iisu: Also, don't wanna create 210 different textures, lol. calcul0n_: well you can still auto-generate them with overlay iisu: Actually, group to group craft recipes would be a nice feature. You wouldn't need to spam the crafting guide with all the diffent kinds of stairs and whatnot. iisu: I'd imagine it like thos crafting recipe animations on Minecraft wiki. iisu: those* calcul0n_: there's an option to not see all the slabs in the guide but most server owners ignore it :) iisu: Cause that's hiding information. What I'm talking about would be displaying it sequentially. calcul0n_: i suspect it's just because they don't know it exists :p calcul0n_: but i see what you mean, it would be cool yes calcul0n_: specialy for unified dyes which is more problematic iisu: What is the craft_inv field in register_on_craft? Krock: the inventory list of the player Krock: presumably iisu: I mean, what type of an object is it? How to use it? calcul0n_: iisu, i guess it's an InvRef object, ie an inventory : https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html#invref calcul0n_: it's not the player's inventory but the one of the craft grid Krock: const InventoryLocation &craft_inv) Krock: just the player's inventory Krock: nothing more specing: C+Crash Krock: iisu: use the functions described here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5779 iisu: nvm, I tried something different and it worked. Krock: interesting iisu: Basically, I wanted to have 1 group crafting recepy and then replace the output depending on individual ingredients. Krock: replace the "craftresult" inventory list Krock: or was it "craftoutput"? uhm iisu: I replace itemstack.name, but to see the changed item in the crafting inventory I actually have to do it twice. Krock: nvm, you can already do that directly by the return value. heh :3 iisu: In register_on_craft and in register_craft_predict. iisu: Despite the wiki saying you shouldn't change anything in register_craft_predict. Krock: you shouldn't change the inventory contents Krock: but the return value is fine Krock: PS: write your function once and pass it to both predict/on_craft instad of copypasta iisu: 210 flavors of ice cream in one crafting recipe. :3 Krock: what's the point if you cannot taste them? :( iisu: To suffer. SwissalpS: O:-) SwissalpS: it's all in the mind :) iisu: Does anybody have Farming Redo for 0.4.17? heavygale: use current version Krock: nobody has that Krock: upgrade to year 2020 iisu: Last one I think: how do I add an existing item to a new group? Krock: minetest.override_item Krock: local oldgroups = minetest.registered_items["bruce:your_teeth"].groups Krock: oldgroups.newfield = 1 minetest.override_item("bruce:your_teeth", { groups = oldgroups }) iisu: Thanks. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! sfan5: table.copy'ing the groups would be a good idea Krock: good practice to do so, yeah. though not needed in this particular case iisu: Hey, I even managed to block all the crafting recipes where the flavors are not all different. :D iisu: Daaam guzzi: is minetest on windows inferior to Linux? Just noticed my daughter's newer windows laptop gets worse fps than my old linux laptop. guzzi: using 5.3 rubenwardy: Thanks to Zughy, there's now an Italian translation of the modding book: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/it/index.html MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow the ABM time budget to be configurable. 13649211b https://git.io/JJNKq (152020-08-18T23:04:32Z) DogHackit: Hi, everyone. Is "realtest" still a valid mod? DogHackit: I am trying to figure out if it is still maintained and worth pursuing. Thank you! DogHackit: Another question. What sould I pursue in minetest? Are there any mods that are suggested? DogHackit: ...is minetest still a thing...? Emerald2: Yes. Emerald2: I'm not familiar with Realtest, so can't help with that. Emerald2: As for mods, DogHackit, it depends what kind of gameplay you're wanting. Emerald2: When I play minetest, it's mainly on servers unless I'm testing a game. Sivarajan: ./msg Sokomine hi Sivarajan: sorry people i wanted to message sokomine :D Emerald2: Oops. :) DogHackit: Emerald2: Thank you! I am basically looking for a Mincreaft clone that is maintained. Emerald2: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/ might interest you. Emerald2: That's a game for minetest. DogHackit: Thank you! Wuzzy made the Realtest one too. I wasn't sure if they were retired. Emerald2: He's still actively working on things. Emerald2: If you want mods and server suggestions, we got those too. :) DogHackit: OK. So, maube he s still working on Rrealtest too. DogHackit: Thank you again! Emerald2: He will probably be in this channel in some hours. DogHackit: Right on. Thanks! DogHackit: It mmight be noce to get his rocammendation fo which one of his games is better to play :) DogHackit: I do enjoy realtest, but starting out is a pretty steep curve. Emerald2: Mineclone 2 is the one I hear get recommended. I haven't any experience with it myself. Emerald2: I prefer to play on servers. Singleplayer is boring. :) DogHackit: Yeah, but I am a n00b to this type of game play. Pretty casual. Just trying to learn the ropes before I go stomping into pub servers gry: yes, minetest is maintained gry: it does help to have someone helping you out; my relative shows me how to do things gry: but I don't remember having a particular 'game', we just use whatever the default is Emerald2: Servers are usually minetest with mods. Some do run particular 'games' though, like there are Mineclone servers. Emerald2: Mine stuff. Build stuff. Fight monsters (maybe, depends on server). Make machines on some. DogHackit: Yeah, I guess a "game" is considered, very basically, a collection of mods Emerald2: 'Game' tends to be more specific. Like Exile game isn't like a mod collection. It's about surviving through seasons, weather, monsters, exploring to find treasures. Emerald2: Games tend to have a lot of their own code written for them, instead of just sticking together a bunch of already existing mods. DogHackit: Emerald2: Good point. I guess I oversimplified the idea. There are also objectives to most of the games, not just styles. Like I said, I am a n00b :) Emerald2: We were all n00bs once lol. specing: Is it possible to draw a texture in lua? Corey[m]: @specing: Short answer, yes kinda, you'll actually composite several images together to form one using the ^ operator thingy, as for pixel perfect manipulation, you're tough out of luck Corey[m]: Unless we can suddenly ship server generated textures over the network Kimapr[m]: as for pixel perfect manipulation you can use dirty hacks like using a white-pixel-texture and things like [combine and [multiply Kimapr[m]: actually there IS a way to dynamically send textures now, but i think you have to create new texture files on the server sfan5: Corey[m]: you can actually https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9961 Kimapr[m]: and there is no way to unload or edit them (as previously) Corey[m]: ah so we can load additional media Corey[m]: But, is there anyway to tell a client to unload a media file, otherwise I feel you could just keep sending files until you flood the client MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentDB: Add Update All and download queuing (#9995) 137242de1 https://git.io/JJbey (152020-08-17T18:09:33Z) swift110: hey folks SwissalpS: o/ swift110: how are you SwissalpS Ingar: yodelin' purple cows greeter: there's a grammar error on https://wiki.minetest.net/Map_generator_features where it says "See Lava more more information." Pentium44: sfan5, quick question for you Pentium44: Any real reason there's 110 continuous connections from 185.107.80.107 aka servers.minetest.net to my webserver itself on port 80? Pentium44: does the minetest servers broadcast over port 80 when announcing to servers.minetest.net? Pentium44: Nevermind, answered it myself #curl life lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add different woods to mese posts (#2599) 13686fdb5 https://git.io/JJdrT (152020-08-16T11:21:22Z) Menchers: I'm trying to set up a media server and am not sure what is required Menchers: what is index.mth and why is the client POSTing it? Menchers: on further inspection it seems to literally be using POST as GET Menchers: I don't know how to configure my webserver to allow this Menchers: wat MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow binding dig, place actions to keys; remove LMB/RMB hardcoding 13291a6b7 https://git.io/JJ5DD (152020-08-15T09:19:20Z) BuckarooBanzai: !tell Wuzzy can you take a look at this: https://content.minetest.net/threads/256/ license things are more your area i think (also: its a copy of you game/mod) MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around CraneZhou: hello here, CraneZhou: good evening. CraneZhou: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/minetest CraneZhou: I could not open this web page (503 Service Unavailable). CraneZhou: is there some one could open this web page ? heavygale: nope, it's a server side error CraneZhou: oh, CraneZhou: heavygale: thank you very much for your answer. CraneZhou: have you played this game on the android phone (a F-Droid app) ? heavygale: not much heavygale: i'm no phone player ^^ CraneZhou: oh, CraneZhou: I will try to play this app on the android phone later if possible. ;-P specing: CraneZhou: why if you have Fedora? CraneZhou: specing:I installed the fedora linux destribution on my laptop. bebebeko: F :) CraneZhou: but unfortunately, the minetest server is not available for fedora linux version. bebebeko: CraneZhou: https://fedora.pkgs.org/32/fedora-updates-x86_64/minetest-server-5.3.0-1.fc32.x86_64.rpm.html ? CraneZhou: bebebeko: ok, thank you very much for your help. CraneZhou: my laptop version is fedora 30. CraneZhou: I will try to upgrade to fedora 32 or install the 4.x version of minetest. specing: CraneZhou: why do you need the server? specing: also fedora 30 is EOL now? CraneZhou: i just want to play some tutorial game of the minetest. CraneZhou: yes. CraneZhou: I know the fedora 30 is EOL and I will try to upgrade to fedora 31 and 32. specing: I don't think there is a tutorial game CraneZhou: https://wiki.minetest.net/Games/Tutorial CraneZhou: https://wiki.minetest.net/How_to_build_your_first_house calcul0n: i doubt this one is useful, it's very old CraneZhou: is this tutorial worth playing ? CraneZhou: oh. calcul0n: i'd say the best way to learn is to play on a server and find cool people to teach you :) specing: a lot of popular servers have tutorial sections, but I don't think specing: you actually need tutorials to play specing: I mean it's just wasd and i + the rest is obvious specing: and everything else depends on installed mods, so you can't really learn it upfront CraneZhou: specing: oh, thank you very much for your comments. ;-P specing: and most of the real deep knowledge comes from reading mod source code specing: since it isn't documented at all CraneZhou: I will try to start a simple case such as (how to build a simple house) in the minetest game. specing: don't bother specing: do it on a popular server CraneZhou: oh. specing: you'll also have a much larger variety of building materials CraneZhou: ok, thank you very much for your comments. CraneZhou: I will try later. CraneZhou: ;-P MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Aug-15 09:30 UTC can you take a look at this: https://content.minetest.net/threads/256/ license things are more your area i think (also: its a copy of you game/mod) appguru: https://github.com/untoldengine/UntoldEngine#what-you-need seems to be a LGPL-2.1 game engine targeted at Apple devices appguru: Makes me wonder whether there is some similar way to get Minetest to Apple? heavygale: you can play minetest just fine on MacOS :) appguru: Yeah, jailbreaking I guess? heavygale: that's iOS appguru: homebrew then? heavygale: or download a precompiled app heavygale: https://github.com/krondor-game/minetest/releases Calinou: you can sideload apps but only for a limited amount of time before they're disabled Calinou: (and you need a Mac to do that) Calinou: it's very inconvenient, to the point even B2B people are complaining about it :) Krock: 2B or not 2B, Calinou ? Peppy: /CLEAR Peppy: ooops Krock: Peppy: please don't clear me Menchers: wow Menchers: the remote media server stuff is so weird Menchers: why are all the files renamed to SHA-1 hashes of their content? why does the client have to POST the list of what it wants? Menchers: huh how does the client even know which cached texture corresponds to which texture name Menchers: the filename is completely replaced with the SHA-1 hash sfan5: when the server tells the client which textures it has it also transfers the sha1 hash sfan5: this is also how the client can reliably know whether it already has the file locally or not Menchers: are the filenames included? I just saw the sha1 hashes sfan5: by "server tells the client" I mean the UDP connection phase here, not remote media Menchers: ah, ok rubenwardy: I feel like the POST protocol hasn't been properly performance tested or evaluated Menchers: I got the hashlist and textures served on my httpd, now I just gotta figure out how to get it to allow POST Menchers: client keeps getting 403 because the server expects you to GET static content :/ Menchers: maybe I don't understand why the server needs to know which ones you need Menchers: I guess it can prune a few files if it has more than you need Menchers: but can't the client just grab the whole list and pick and choose? rubenwardy: you can serve the POST like a GET Menchers: don't know how to configure my httpd to do that Menchers: it seems unusual rubenwardy: location /index.mth { error_page 405 =200 $uri; } Menchers: ah sfan5: definitely unusual and I agree a GET request would be better rubenwardy: or no request at all rubenwardy: the HTTP API itself already handles non-existant files sfan5: not requesting stuff that isn't there is definitely of use Menchers: hrm Menchers: still can't get the httpd to allow POST for getting static content Menchers: grar rubenwardy: the POST API isn't CDN or cache friendly rubenwardy: and most correctly set up remote media servers will have a large majority of the files - there's less need to check available files rubenwardy: index.mth feels over designed and badly designed Menchers: is there any reason not to just serve the files by their ordinary names (like, "default_dirt.png" instead of "a69b5634dbcb8b67a5d66402bac9f105618b9030") rubenwardy: they may have different values Menchers: I suppose there could be collisions Hawk777: Well, saving by hash means an upgrade that changes the texture but doesn’t rename it works properly. rubenwardy: you'd have no idea if the default_dirt.png is the correct version Menchers: ah rubenwardy: using hashes means you can have a single server serving lots of different versions Menchers: what if someone wants to use a different one from what the game server specifies? Menchers: custom texture pack rubenwardy: it doesn't download from the remote media server Menchers: right Menchers: ok Menchers: so by design the remote media server will only give you what the game server has as "official" textures Menchers: I guess most of my headache here is the [mis?]use of POST rubenwardy: no, the client only requests textures not in an enabled texture pack sy: Hey all, any ideas for a zero-footprint floor opening door? sy: Seemed to work by having pistons pushing up grass blocks which emerged through mk3 technic constructors, but this didn't leave enough room to enter Krock: mesecons + trap door Krock: if that works sy: So I'd like it to be completely invisible, just in the middle of a grass field, no indication that it's there sy: I've created kind of what I'm looking for with sticky movestone but it's not really possible to do 3 wide entrances, only 1 wide Itz-Noah: # Motogeekchris: found it. players.sqlite in the worlds directory Motogeekchris: Thanks GreenXenith GreenXenith: Ah yes forgot to mention the dir. np :) Motogeekchris: All good! Thanks Again adfeno: Hi there, in mesecons, is there a conductor that acts ONLY straight up and down? adfeno: Like the straight insulated one but vertically? adfeno: Well, there is a MR in mesecons. So I just have to wait :S adfeno: Or try to convince the server admin to implement it. adfeno: Thanks for the information :) wsor4035: adfeno: you could try using wire3d: https://github.com/12Me21/wires3d with insulation Argentus: Hello guys, just started with Minetest and modding. Any tips on how to test/simulate your lua mapgens? Flying through the whole 62k*62k map to see what's generated is not practical and I can't run the code outside the game, since I am using the builtin perlin. Do you know how to simulate the MT perlin in Matlab/Octave for example? Argentus: What I'm looking for is how to visualize the big picture things, like the resulting heigt map or noise patterns in general MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix precision not working in hud_change (#10186) 131c38027 https://git.io/JJS0X (152020-08-12T09:51:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Render nodeboxes with opaque material if possible (#10122) 13fff0393 https://git.io/JJSEe (152020-08-12T09:52:50Z) Krock: !tell Argentus Not possible in MInetest right now, but you can set the perlin noise scatter to a lower value to have everything in a miniature format. also make use of the "dummy" map backend MinetestBot: Krock: yeah, yeah GreenXenith: When entities are drawn, are faces/tris without textures "rendered"/calculated? Like when you have a node with a texture missing, that face doesnt show up in debug mode. Unfortunately debug mode doesnt work on entities. GreenXenith: (Specifically with a mesh drawtype) GreenXenith: (Or maybe normal drawtype) GreenXenith: s/normal/cube GreenXenith: And when I say "without texture" I mean 100% transparent, because that is usually the case GreenXenith: I guess a better question would be: If an entity has no textures, is the client actually processing or drawing anything? GreenXenith: s/no/blank Krock: it's always processed Krock: unless you set "visible = false" in the entity def Krock: or properties, after it's spawned sfan5: it's "no" texture actually possible with entities? sfan5: isn't* GreenXenith: Well yes but actually no GreenXenith: A lot of visual types will use defined textures to fill in missing ones GreenXenith: Cube included, I think GreenXenith: Krock: So if I have a cuboid of say a few hundred entities, for sake of argument, and all of the hidden ones have transparent textures (but are still "visible"), is it faster to render than if they had textures? Krock: opaque textures might be faster than transparent ones Krock: dunno about "no texture" MinetestBot: Argentus: Aug-12 16:47 UTC Not possible in MInetest right now, but you can set the perlin noise scatter to a lower value to have everything in a miniature format. also make use of the "dummy" map backend Argentus: Krock: thanks, the "spread" value miniature is a good idea. Also, could anyone point me in a good direction at procedural generation of lakes and maybe rivers? My mountains generate a good amount of glacier lake-like depressions, any idea on how to fill them with water? Krock: *shrug* Motogeekchris: Hello, Can anyone help point me in the right direction? I need to pull a list of players from my minetest server. I have a private server setup for my kids and my daughter said there was someone logged on she didnt know Motogeekchris: I'd like to be able to pull the name and ip if possible. I checked the debug.txt as it has been reset since last reboot GreenXenith: There is a player database GreenXenith: players.sqlite, probably GreenXenith: You can download the sqlite viewer to read it, or do manual SQL statements beatlink[m]: sup guys beatlink[m]: are there plans to add minetest to steam? bebebeko: beatlink[m]: fast googling: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk/uploading/distributing_opensource bebebeko: Q: Which Open Source Licenses are problematic for shipping on Steam? bebebeko: A: Generally, any license that has a so-called “copyleft” element will be problematic when combining code with the Steamworks SDK. The best-known example is GPL. bebebeko: The code of both the Minetest Engine and Minetest Game are licensed under LGPL 2.1+ free software license (c) wiki.minetest.net beatlink[m]: oh Spookan: I hope not. bebebeko: Spookan: but why? maksim: hello! maksim: i love minetest sagax: it's great beatlink[m]: couldnt a wrapper be created to circumvent the licensing issues? Krock: yes sure but why Krock: why would you want to that? Krock: LGPL is great, Apple sucks. case closed. beatlink[m]: wider access and appeal beatlink[m]: theres a balance to be made between idealism and practicality beatlink[m]: sure i love the open source ecosystem beatlink[m]: been using linux since i was 12 beatlink[m]: but the main problem it has is marketability beatlink[m]: we get so caught up in principles that we make it super hard for the masses to enter the open source world Krock: like commercial use? beatlink[m]: not commercial use beatlink[m]: but like, getting normal users into open source software Krock: Do you mean putting it on Steam, GOG or Itch.IO? beatlink[m]: yes yes and yes Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9028 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Add font styling options to tables and textlists (#10203) 13cd0e213 https://git.io/JJyPu (152020-08-11T18:07:17Z) Pentium44: Wow, haven't been on freenode in so long that my nick wasn't registered anymore LOL Guest4491: Why ndkVersion in app/build.gradle is 21.1 while it use ndk r16b? Guest4491: Is the r16b version number 21.1? I thought was something like 16 Guest4491: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/cd0e213a3640e980e15735f97dd874754f0dc679/build/android/app/build.gradle#L5 CatoYiu: How to make a player can walk through an entity ? CatoYiu: How to make a player can walk through an entity ? bebebeko: rubenwardy: thank you BlueDawg: Hi BlueDawg: I am trying to make a server BlueDawg: Its a FreeDNS SErver BlueDawg: Anyone wanna help me? BlueDawg: Help...? specing: no BlueDawg: Uhh? BlueDawg: Can anyone help? BlueDawg: ? BlueDawg: I have been waiting specing: prepare to wait an eternity BlueDawg: ugh BlueDawg: surr ig not lke ai have a choisce BlueDawg: CAN I GET SOME HELP? rubenwardy: !title https://www.propublica.org/nerds/how-to-ask-programming-questions MinetestBot: rubenwardy: How to Ask Programming Questions — ProPublica rubenwardy: say what you've tried, what you want to do, what went wrong BlueDawg: So what i have done is BlueDawg: I did my reasearch on wiki server domain BlueDawg: after that i went and did my domain BlueDawg: then aftter that i cant find where my wlrd.conf file is BlueDawg: That what i need help with rubenwardy: world.conf? BlueDawg: yes sir rubenwardy: it'll be at `worlds/world/world.conf` typically. rubenwardy: where "world" is the name of the world rubenwardy: perhaps ~/.minetest/worlds/world/world.conf BlueDawg: Nope i looked there rubenwardy: on linux, that is. ~ means home, . means hidden BlueDawg: Yes i have linux rubenwardy: it may not have created the directory yet if you haven't run it BlueDawg: and the thing is BlueDawg: my files are not in .minetest BlueDawg: they are in 1619 BlueDawg: Any idea what i shoudl do?> BlueDawg: Uhhh Ingar: go outside, take a dip in the pool BlueDawg: Are you gonna help or just tease? Ingar: the latter, it's 36C in here I'm out soon Ingar: ( you can also "find world.cfg") BlueDawg: I searched it wont come up BlueDawg: is world.mt the same? BlueDawg: : / SwissalpS: !tell BlueDawg for me world.mt is created by GUI when I select which mods to use MinetestBot: SwissalpS: yeah, sure, whatever SwissalpS: main server settings I do in minetest.conf which is either in ~/.minetest or in the root dir of in-place installed minetest specing: Ah, so it's actually safe to use a single password for all servers specing: this should be mentioned somewhere Wuzzy: Any macOS users here? heavygale: maybe ^^ Wuzzy: I have heard the chat input is broken when you use a French (AZERTY) keyboard on macOS. Is this correct? Wuzzy: the "M" key does allegedly not work heavygale: don't have such a keyboard,… have other issues ^^ Wuzzy: such as? heavygale: client crashes when joining a server if my 5.1 usb sound card is pluggedin,… need to unplug it or mute the game heavygale: failed assertion: inChannelsPerFrame >= 5 Wuzzy: o_O rubenwardy: do you not have any speakers connected? heavygale: sure heavygale: 6 channels output, if the usb device is connected heavygale: when configured to only use 2 channels, it's working fine Andrey01: hello Andrey01: is there a styling property that rounds off corners of buttons? rubenwardy: you'll need to use a background image for that Andrey01: ah rubenwardy: I would like the ability to create buttons and backgrounds by specifying a color, border radius, and border rubenwardy: this could be used with other things rubenwardy: like, so much in a GUI can be reduced to a "panel" - a rectangle that can have either a background color or image, with borders, and border radius Andrey01: but really is it impossible to set color of backgrounds now? there is 'bgcolor' property rubenwardy: I can't remember if that's supported by buttons yet Andrey01: yes, it has already supported long ago rubenwardy: it was used to tint the existing button, but it didn't support being plain Andrey01: hmm, interestingly how could the rounding off the corners be implemented by Irrlicht? rubenwardy: no idea rubenwardy: but anyway, you can already do that with a background image and 9-slices bebebeko: hm, is there a way to hide formspec after formspec button was clicked? Andrey01: rubenwardy, can I download your new main menu for testing? Andrey01: you can only close formspec bebebeko: Andrey01 like press "ESC" button? Andrey01: yes bebebeko: sad... Andrey01: try "minetest.close_formspec" or alternatively "minetest.show_formspec("")" bebebeko: Andrey01: thank you, it helped tyler-2: Someone posted some site that showed the most common active mods on servers... I think... What was it? rubenwardy: bebebeko: button_exit will do that automatically specing: is it possible to protect an area such that the server replaces protected blocks with unminable bedrock to unauthorised clients? specing: to prevent exploration via local map cache CatoYiu: I am making a mod that make dropped item *3000 CatoYiu: ohno irc cant send \n! CatoYiu: Can i send \n in IRC? dennisjenkins: 2020-08-08 08:59:06: WARNING[Main]: Node 'light_source' value exceeds maximum, limiting to maximum: illumination:light_full dennisjenkins: Is useless error msg b/c it does not tell me which mod or line# attempted to set the light value too high. sfan5: dennisjenkins: not really, you just have to search for the place where illumination:light_full is registered dennisjenkins: ok dennisjenkins: CTF from contentdb crashes on Minetest 5.3.0 when any item is dropped, or a node w/ an attached item is mined and the item drops. rubenwardy: the current version there only supports 5.2 and below rubenwardy: I've just set that now, it won;t appear in 5.3.0 anymore dennisjenkins: :( gentoo removed the ebuild for v5.2.0, so my systems only have 5.3.0 on them now. dennisjenkins: Any plans to make it work on 5.3.0? rubenwardy: you can easily fix it by grabbing item_entity.lua from Minetest Game rubenwardy: A PR would also be appreciated rubenwardy: I don't really maintain CTF anymore dennisjenkins: ok rubenwardy: created an issue for it https://github.com/MT-CTF/capturetheflag/issues/673 soeren6: Hi all antoine62[m]2: Hi specing: Why do the mod lists of some servers not appears in the server list? specing: Is this a misconfiguration? Krock: perhaps buggy specing: Or does the server cut modlists that are too long? Krock: I mean dreambuilder servers are displayed correctly, thus I don't know what's the issue sfan5: it only sends the mod list on the first announce, not subsequent ones sfan5: and sometimes the list goes missing in the meantime specing: Krock: wget 'https://servers.minetest.net/list' -O minetest-serverlist specing: Krock: python3 -m json.tool minetest-serverlist | less specing: search for "Blocky" no modlist at all! rubenwardy: pretty sure they don't send the mods at all rubenwardy: multicraft, that is specing: that's strange specing: rubenwardy: I also miss any option of filtering servers by mod specing: well, mod(s) specing: rubenwardy: there are 298 servers of which only 132 show mod lists specing: less than half! specing: btw how is the password communicated to servers? In plain or hashed? sfan5: SRP SX: basically weakest links with password stuff are not comms with server but either user database on mt server (hacked/misconfigured server) or user itself (keyloggers etc.) sfan5: yep cheapie: It was nice to see that added (way back when it was) - MT used to just send a hash of the password, which made it trivial to capture that hash and just replay it later. est31: tbh in retrospect I should probably have added key stretching est31: back then I had the opinion that key stretching isn't needed if your password is secure enough est31: which is factually true but besides the point: most passwords aren't est31: but of course there is the challenge that you want to allow connections from multiple different clients est31: which means you can't just use the hardest setting possible est31: some folks want to connect from high powered pc first est31: then from banana powered phone bebebeko: SwissalpS thank you! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add furnace sounds (#2569) 130a96bac https://git.io/JJXtp (152020-08-07T17:40:02Z) Flitzpiepe: Hello everyone antoine62[m]2: Hi Extex: I'm making a mod that makes pizzas, and I've run into a problem, How do I avoid making my mod make: Extex: Pepperoni and mushroom pizza Extex: Along side Extex: Mushroom and Pepperoni pizza Corey[m]: sort the ingredients, and check for uniqueness? Ingar: lacks cheese fruitsnack: Hello, what beds.read_spawns() from game api is supposed to return? The api says it returns a table with respawn positions, but it returns nil, even though I have players set up custom respawn positions at beds sfan5: it doesn't return anything sfan5: data is loaded into the beds.spawns table fruitsnack: ok thanks fruitsnack: there's a mistake in game_api.txt then, it says it returns a table bebebeko: hey folks, it possible to get entity into itemstack? If yes, which control key can i use? (sorry for noob question) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Emojigit -> 03minetest/minetest: Change `last-login` command to show player name in output (#10263) 13abfea69 https://git.io/JJiHD (152020-08-06T17:30:41Z) SwissalpS: bebebeko: as far as I know, no. You can only have items in itemstacks. Some, like eggs, spawn entities when placed. SwissalpS: you can add mechanisms like lasso that catches entities and makes 'egg'-items for inventory SwissalpS: take a look at mobs redo mod fruitsnack: Is it possible to change image of the same hud element? As in, not add and remove elements when I want to change the image but change it with hud_change()? fruitsnack: For example to update a hud compass Krock: yes it's possible Krock: hud_change(hudid, "text", "default_dirt.png") fruitsnack: why text though Krock: lua_api.txt L1344 fruitsnack: ah ok Krock: yes, these namings are somewhat suboptimal fruitsnack: keep forgetting there's explanations of many things up in the lua_api, I'm just looking at hud definition a1fa: sfan5: ty a1fa: sfan5: this is on windows shelli_k18: just got back into Minetest singleplayer, been a few yrs.. mods 3d_armor/ hoffworld/ <- my fixes stamina/dreambuilder_modpack/ mobs/ multihome/ woodcutting/ethereal/ mobs_animal/ soft_leaves/ xocean/ shelli_k18: inside dreambuilder_pack is item_drop, but it crashes when I make sand drop on things shelli_k18: i have to remove it to get back into the system.. i know what line it goes to, and says player id isn't valid.. kinda shelli_k18: made a couple converter recipe's farming:pineapple >> pineapple:pineapple shelli_k18: and noticed I'm not the only one missing rubber tree's shelli_k18: the forums are helpful, sometimes.. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Mapgen Flat: Add caverns, disabled by default (#9913) 13f92a393 https://git.io/JJKd6 (152020-08-05T04:00:00Z) specing: Is it possible to create a forum.minetest.net account without feeding google's AI? sfan5: if you ask a moderator/admin, perhaps fruitsnack: how can I copy invref contents from one to another? fruitsnack: with get_list() and set_list()? fruitsnack: is there some way to serialize an entire invref? Instead of iterating over it manually and turning itemstacks into tables or strings specing: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1566 specing: reminder that this exists jonadab: specing: The biggest downside, which nobody on there has mentioned, is that if you have this feature, nobody knows what their password is, because they chose it months ago and have never thought about it again. So when they get a new computer, they are locked out of their user account unless they can convince the server admin to intervene and reset their password. specing: people should have backups and this is one of those valuable lessons in having backups heavygale: and use a password safe ^^ jonadab: People *should* do a lot of things, including keep track of their passwords. jonadab: But they don't. specing: No, people shouldn't have to keep track of all the passwords specing: people aren't hard drives jonadab: This is why webmail providers and social networking websites and such have *elaborate* password-recovery mechanisms. jonadab: Which you probably don't want to implement in Minetest client. lmat: Dude, my animals totally get out of their pin!! I have a pin three tiles tall, but they hop on each other's backs and hop out!! specing: hahaha jonadab: Some of the animal mods have a deeply broken AI that causes the animals to bounce up and down, sometimes 10 or more blocks in the air. jonadab: Sometimes they can fall to their death on a level plain. specing: jonadab: you can ride a petz horse and your model gets 100 times bigger lmat: jonadab: Wow. Mine just try to go through the wall and jump all the time. lmat: jonadab: Naturally, eventually they jump on each other and eventually one of them jumps while on another while next to the wall while trying to walk into the wall :-/ lmat: I think they generally jump right by the wall, so I added a lip to the top of my wall. lmat: I thought about making the wall higher, but then they'll just jump three high... :-/ lmat: How do I use bonemeal to grow grass? lmat: (I installed the bonemeal 1.1 mod) lmat: "Bonemeal is crushed from bones found in dirt ... each of which can be used to quickly grow ... grass/decoration" lmat: That's how I read the first paragraph at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16446 specing: punch dirt MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement override.txt support for special tiles (#10140) 1393ecc58 https://git.io/JJK4S (152020-08-04T18:12:47Z) lmat: specing: Oh, I was right-clicking! duh :-D lmat: specing: That made grass and flowers, but I'm looking for grass on dirt... lmat: OH! there it is! lmat: guys... if my eyes don't deceive me, all I need to do to grow grass on dirt is put grass (like break a grass thing) on the dirt, then the dirt turns green, no? lmat: and you guys telling me to get stupid bonemeal! duckie: boop boopp fruitsnack: Hm, it seems that align= parameters for formspec table columns are not working fruitsnack: my columns are always aligned to left fruitsnack: Does formspec column "image" type support image transformations? fruitsnack: [combine, [resize, etc sfan5: I think it might be faster if you tested fruitsnack: well I already came to conclusion that it doesnt fruitsnack: since the modifiers start with same symbols used for formspecs fruitsnack: [, ], etc sfan5: you can escape them fruitsnack: hm it does work indeed lmat: How do I pick up my furnace? sfan5: make sure it's empty, then dig it lmat: sfan5: I need a pickaxe to dig it, but it just reappears. It's in my protected space... specing: is it empty? lmat: I'm pretty sure I made sure of that, but I'll have to double check next time I'm around it. a1fa: hey, how do you enable fullscreen in 5.3? a1fa: enabling fullscreen just removes titlebar, and locks the window to the top left corner a1fa: are there any mods ala pubg? sfan5: window-manager fullscreen works much better sfan5: try e.g. alt+f11 specing: What is input.width in get_craft_result() for? specing: https://minetest.org/modbook/lua_api.html#groups-of-items specing: Where are the minetest.setting_set /.setting_get settings configured for a singleplayer game? specing: I've also put these settings into settingtypes.txt in the mod root, however the default values do not work independent56: good morning specing: > As of 5.0.0, while option value is not set by player manually, settings interface will show default value from settingtypes.txt but minetest.settings:get will return nil specing: 1) Why nil? specing: 2) I have a settingtypes.txt but I don't see any interface in 5.2.0 rubenwardy: Settingtypes is only for the main menu rubenwardy: It's not used anywhere else lmat: I have a bunch of dirt, but no grass is growing on it. lmat: It's in the sun. lmat: Is there anything else I need to do? Peppy: lmat : grass nearby is required for it to spread lmat: Peppy: Crap! lmat: Peppy: I'm trying to terraform a dessert... lmat: one HUGE bridge coming right up lmat: Peppy: I don't think I'm allowed to add that to the wiki, can you? Peppy: i can't Peppy: some servers/mods do provide recipes for "dirt_with_grass", but i'm affraid default Minetest Game doesn't lmat: Peppy: I have something that creates a fake dirt with grass... lmat: I guess I should try that first. specing: lmat: in my tests the grass only spread horizontally, so good luck with any vertical movement lmat: specing: And fake grass? (dirt with leaves on top)? lmat: specing: Oh, that's VERY helpful if I'm going to build a bridge all the way from the grassy land!! specing: fake grass? That exists? just placing leaves on top will probably not work specing: lmat: why not install ethereal mod or something that provides ffertiliser (bonemeal?) / jungle grass specing: lmat: are you on some server? specing: lmat: are you on some server that has few mods*? lmat: https://imgur.com/1KFw948.png lmat: specing: I'm on my server. lmat: VanessaE: Does fake grass spread to nearby dirt? (see image above.) jonadab: Don't install ethereal just to get bonemeal. If you want bonemeal, install bonemeal.l specing: lmat: singleplayer is boring:) jonadab: Install Ethereal if you want bananas that grow individually up in the branches of trees like apples. lmat: specing: I agree, but why do you mention it? * lmat: looking up bonemeal lmat: The wiki doesn't know about it :-( https://wiki.minetest.net/index.php?search=bone+meal&button=&title=Special%3ASearch Oh well, I'm sure google knows. lmat: jonadab: bonemeal looks too ... effective. Does it make the game less fun because you can create all kinds of stuff so easily? (saplings?) specing: lmat: the best source of information are other players. That is why I (implicitly) suggestedto play multiplayer jonadab: lmat: If you want really _effective_ fertilizer, you install Technic, and you make cottonseed oil fertilizer. jonadab: But this is not advised unless you intend to automate a bunch of stuff. jonadab: (And by automate, I mean you go afk and the luacontroller sends a signal to the deployer, causing it to plant a sapling, then sends a signal to the nodebreaker that makes it fertilize the sappling, then sends a signal to the other nodebreaker with the Mk II chainsaw, causing it to cut down the entire tree in one fell swoop, and then it starts over. The vacuum pneumatic tubes pick up all the logs and jonadab: leaves and saplings, and a sorting tube sends the saplings into the row of chests that is used to refill the deployer, and the leaves go into other processing that makes plastic or something, and the logs go into the row of chests that feeds the furnaces; the charcoal from the furnaces goes into the chests that feed the grinders, and the coal dust goes into the chests that feed the compressors, and the jonadab: graphite goes into the chests that feed the furnaces, and the diamond seeds go into the chests that feed the next compressors, and the diamonds go into autocrafters, and their output goes into a row of chests, and you come back the next day and have several stacks of diamond blocks. This is what Technic/Mesecons/Pipeworks is for, and this is the only reason you would ever need 100% effective jonadab: fertilizer, IMO. specing: or you can install TechPack and have the tubelib harvester do all that with no code required jonadab: Ah? Interesting. specing: yes, you can try the BlockySurvival server, it has some unconventional mods (techpack, terumet) jonadab: Ultimately, I kind of want to put together my own pack of mods. I have some rather specific ideas about what I want. Notably, I want to fork Ethereal, get rid of all the non-biome-related stuff, get rid of the three completely ridiculous biomes, make it depend on moretrees, and introduce some new biomes that use the moretrees trees... jonadab: And make bamboo way less common. jonadab: I also want to use lowercrossroads. jonadab: And maybe modify it to place teleporters every few junctions that skip to the next junctions with the next teleporters, for true distance travel. lmat: specing: My server is multiplayer! lmat: jonadab: dude Krock: which server is singleplayer? lmat: Krock: I don't know. I am not sure why he talked about it like that. specing: jonadab: have you talked to the ethereal developers? jonadab: specing: Not personally, no. jonadab: The thing is, I want to like Ethereal, because its core idea is great. jonadab: But the more I learn about it (mostly from playing on servers that have it), the more I don't like it, because of the details. jonadab: The choices it makes. fruitsnack: when creating a custom page in sfinv, with sfin.make_formspec(), is it possible to also specify position of the formspec? When setting a custom size with "size[]", it'll automatically recenter fruitsnack: so the tabbar also jumps down or up if the height of the formspec is different fruitsnack: I want it to stay in the same place, but making the bottom of the formspec shorter rubenwardy: yes, you can prepend size with a position/anchor rubenwardy: like "position[0,0]size[3,5]" MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SeekingMeaning -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build for Visual Studio (explicitly cast pointers) (#10256) 13d22fd6f https://git.io/JJrhY (152020-08-03T21:38:45Z) b3: hello everyone b3: I just start running a minetest server. Any advice ? b3: Is there any tool to simplify it? b3: Is there a too to install mod cleanly (resolving all dependencies at once for instance)? b3: Is there a non graphical client (to manage stuff in it)? SwissalpS: there are many ways to keep organized SwissalpS: git repositories with submodules can work fine for testing and deployment stages hisforever: Hi I have 1 question. can digrton dig up grades? fruitsnack: Hello, is there a way to force-generate a certain area of world, and also run all the abm's for some time, lbm's, etc? fruitsnack: For example, when I want to pre-generate a large area of world on a server, but it should be like the mapblocks were loaded for players, for example like with moretrees and plantlife modpacks, which spawn their stuff later sfan5: emerge_area and forceload them for a while sfan5: alternatively patch biome_lib to generate instantly and use only emerge_area Krock: /emerge_area, and a mod that does forceload fruitsnack: Ah, so a mod, I was hoping there's some server command maybe, ok thanks, maybe worldedit has something like that Krock: moretrees might depend on ABMs (for mapgen-placed saplings) fruitsnack: I'm also having some problems with sound_fade. It seems it always fades towards gain 1 with positive step and towards 0 with negative, it doesnt actually reach target gain fruitsnack: so it's either full gain or 0, depending if step is negative Krock: weird. I thought I tested those cases independent56: where can i ask questions about modding? after reading the wiki page on irc chat, i doubt that this is the place. rubenwardy: here's correct rubenwardy: here, the forums, or discord independent56: ah, ok. what discord server (im more comfortable wit discord, having been on it for a few years). independent56: is the discord server listed on disboard? what are the names of the offical, or largest servers? rubenwardy: it's not official, it's still unofficial independent56: anyways, i have a few questions. first of all, i would like to detect a certain node in a certain radius. i also want to intergrate digilines, so heat detectors notify alarms and extinguishers that a fire as started. independent56: firesafety is very important. thats wy im making a mod about it independent56: ive done countless duckduckgo searches on my two questions independent56: since three ne pwople have joined, potentially with answers, i will repeat my question: how can i detect a node in a certian radius, and how can i send and recve digiline messages? thank you for reading. specing: for 1) I don't know, I only know that digistuff has a camera that detects players in a certain area specing: for 2) it depends on the detector you use independent56: thank you. i will look through code, especially from the fire_extingusher (im not using in my mod, im amking my own) independent56: i think i found the correct function.local nn = minetest.get_node(p).name independent56: if nn == "fire:basic_flame" then independent56: i will use it calcul0n: independent56, you might want minetest.find_node_near() and find_node_in_area calcul0n: and if you don't have it already this is a must have for modding: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html calcul0n: (must have *and* must read of course :) rubenwardy: !book basic map MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Basic Map Operations - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/environment.html rubenwardy: is the chapter in question rubenwardy: (the book is written such that you can read any chapter at anytime, although you may need to read earlier chapters if you don't understand something) independent56: thank you very much independent56: a lotof thanks, and genuine too! independent56: anyways, i want people who will volenteer their time i making textures for my mod. if i cant find anyone, i will likely make them myself independent56: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md independent56: where can i find out how to use digilines inside my mod, to send and recive messages? specing: other mods cheapie: independent56: If you want a relatively simple example, take a look at lines 44-71 of this: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/digistuff/tree/timer.lua#n44 cheapie: Line 47 there sends a message, and then 55-69 are a function that receives one. independent56: the long response times wre realy worth te wait.i give you a great thanks independent56: i really wish that they ahd commented it. specing: independent56: all the mesecons/digiline stuff is severely underdocumented independent56: wow. where should i help? where do i put my documentation? im willing to write, as writing in plain english is slightly easier then writing in code independent56: specing: there are a lot of outlets. i can write in github wiki, minetest offical wiki, a third part website, or even a book. specing: independent56: ideally into mods that add the items that you are prepared to document specing: independent56: e.g. https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/-/wikis/home specing: as you can see, the autocrafter section contains no documentation on its use over digilines independent56: alrigt independent56: specing: ive decided that i wont edit a wiki, il just write a book about mesecons, digilines and pipewroks, and how to use them together independent56: although, im not actually gonna make it until i run out of motivation for my firesafety mod specing: lol specing: just update the wiki independent56: i have a legal query. im using a sound that is licensed under cc4. i ahve attributed it in readme.md and credits.txt. can i still distrobute my software under a open-source license (like mit)? specing: cc4 isnt a license, is it? independent56: i dunno, but it just says you can use it how you like, BUT only if you attribute. so i guess yes? i was just confirming, so i dont break more laws independent56: (ive pirated software) Krock: cc-by-sa 4 is a license Krock: but cc4 alone isn't Krock: cc0 is a license specing: independent56: the creative commons has real good (human understandable) guide on what it allows you to do independent56: thank you independent56: i still cant belive i used to think that digilines was a mesecons clone. specing: hah specing: I have not used mesecons ever since I found digilines specing: (mesecons the lines I mean) specing: *wires independent56: wow. connecting buttons directly to luacontrollers is crazy. i love using both, and ive come up with an ide for binary computing, using the mesecons wires ON and OFF states, as well as connecting luacontrollers. digilines can have as many points as you want. you can have decimary, with 10 possible states. specing: I use digilines as what they are-packet transport independent56: it would be cool, to have a exper tlike you making a program to recive and senp packets via mesecon wires. form port a to port a, you could send morse code. specing: I use mesecons as a tool, not as a project in itself independent56: oh. minetest is a sandbox, so i like to play around and do crazy stuff, like building a 1000*1000 solar grid to power a single technic furnace, or burning innocent luacontrollers. specing: yes specing: right now I'm working on a can-make-everything factory using a single furnace+pipeworks autocrafter nicholas: hello? nicholas: i was just testing indpendent56: great indpendent56: can anyone reply to prove ive connected? heavygale: no :D indpendent56: oh, then there must be something seriously wrong with my client (jk). maybe i will have to change computers independent56: had to resatrt my computer independent56: it froze. 4gb of ram isnt that much, even on linux wsor4035: does anyone happen to have a copy of advcarts? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18316 awell: Sorry, not I. independent56: hello. i would like some general tips on increasing minetest speed Wuzzy: turn of fancy graphics? Wuzzy: reduce render distance? Wuzzy: sorry i cant really give good tips 😛 Calinou: set Undersampling to 2/3/4 in the Advanced Settings menu Calinou: (you can also edit minetest.conf and write "undersampling = 2") independent56: thank you for trying to help. im working on a calculator, and the lag makes it painfully slow. il also disble a few mods i dont currently need specing: independent56 made a calculator out of a thousand mesecons item and wonders about lag. Lol independent56: no, ive only made the buttons specing: ok independent56: like, theres a buttons for the numbers and operators. i havent evn started wit scripting. independent56: the undersampling is making minetest look like a SAND box specing: haha independent56: i wish that the luacontroll IDE had at least some colours to show e=wat things do. one of the best things about code is seeing a rainbow come as you type and type. independent56: does anyone want me to send a photo of how the calculator looks as of now? specing: independent56: I develop code outside minetest and then paste it in independent56: oh, ok. thanks for the tip independent56: goodnight, im shutting down my computer iamweasel: specing: at hightime we use torches mod, same functionality, absolutely no issues so far fruitsnack: how does "fade" parameter in simple sound spec work? fruitsnack: "fade = 0.0, -- default, change to a value > 0 to fade the sound in" fruitsnack: is it the same as in minetest.sound_fade, where the value is a step? fruitsnack: And another question, does minetest.after take anonymous functions? Krock: "fade" specifies the slope Krock: "gain" the destination gain Krock: though you could probably use positive slopes in all cases (didn't check the code) fruitsnack: What does the slope represent? Is it how much of gain is changed per frame or something? Krock: per second fruitsnack: oh ok thanks specing: Is there mapgen that generates ores in veins? specing: and bigger mountains (like 5000-10000 blocks high) specing: and bigger everything in general (one biome at least 1000x1000 blocks in size), rivers 20-50 blocks wide Krock: just tune the world noise settings Krock: PS: "blocks" is "nodes" in this context Krock: map_meta.txt -> spread params for larger biomes and higher scale for higher mountains Krock: also the ore generation does not depend on the mapgen - it is specified by mods specing: hmm fruitsnack: Krock: hm, sounds really interesting, how do we do that? Krock: fruitsnack: what exactly? fruitsnack: set custom mapgen parameters Krock: fruitsnack: worlds/myworldname/map_meta.txt Krock: edit the noise params to get a different landscape fruitsnack: thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Krock: Protip: change the map backend to "dummy" to test it, so that you don't need to delete map.sqlite every time MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix GCC class-memaccess warnings (#10239) 13542df11 https://git.io/JJVOj (152020-08-01T15:25:33Z) adfeno: Hi there, I have a map in my server that is only reaching X +927, how to find what is limiting it? adfeno: and X -912 sfan5: the map_generation_limit setting? adfeno: currently at 31000 adfeno: I heard that this one is in "nodes" but I don't know what the rest means adfeno: or how to make the calculations specing: > illumination is the mod that keep creating and deleting blocks so you can wield a torch and the area around you gets lit up specing: > Because there is no other means of lighting up an area around you specing: Minetest, wtf? adfeno: sfan5: is there any way to safely unload and "unregister" the unused and unprotected nodes ? sfan5: which nodes? adfeno: For example, I have a city which I know that has protected nodes and would like to unload the nodes that are out of the place, so that the server can genarate new ones if a player walks in. adfeno: "walks in the outside of the city", in mean adfeno: OK, I think I found a way, but it seems to cause a bug https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5507 adfeno: I didn't test yet. adfeno: Well, I'll test it tomorrow with a backup as a fallback. adfeno: Thanks for the collaboration sfan5 :D fruitsnack: Hello, what does "step" represent in minetest.sound_fade()? fruitsnack: I want to fade the sound in and out for specific amount of time fruitsnack: And also the api reference says that it should be negative if I want to lower the gain, so if I want to fade from 1.0 to 0.0, my step should be negative too (as opposed to being positive when fading from 0.0 to 1.0)? Guest82942: Can a raspberry pi host a minetest server well? sfan5: yes Guest82942: What about performance? Krock: needs tweaking and you might want to use an external drive to store the map Guest82942: How do you mean abut tweaking? Krock: minetest.conf. reduce sent and active mapblocks to reduce CPU load and disk I/O Krock: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1825 Krock: though max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total no longer exists fruitsnack: what are general advices to maximize perfomance? When having a lot of mods I'm starting to have massive lags during mapblock generation fruitsnack: I haven't made detailed profiling yet, but unfortunately I dont think I'll be disabling any mods, I have all the must-haves fruitsnack: I mean, how much of an effect would be enabling asynchronous i/o for sqlite or using postgresql fruitsnack: turning on multithreaded emerge, etc fruitsnack: cpu load and disk i/o is not a concern to me, perfomance is the priority sfan5: multithread emerge can only help with c++ mapgen, all lua still runs single-threaded tadas: A BuckarooBanzai: cheapie: your ssl certificates are expired on cheapiesystems.com :) bebebeko: specing: as i can remember, you need somehow to change focus in mineteset window (it can be done with xdotool too) balirt: fruitsnack:if your mob crashes because the player_pos returns nil, checking the player's existence seems a roundabout way to avoid crashes; it makes more sense to me to sanitize the "pos" value and add an exception handler for when the player_pos you got is nil balirt: fruitsnack: instead of checking whether the player reference is nil specing: bebebeko: well, I thought that was already done given that the tool was being animated as being used specing: Is there a way to see the coordinate limits of each chunk? BuckarooBanzai: specing: https://github.com/SwissalpS/postool specing: BuckarooBanzai: I'm not the server owner BuckarooBanzai: ah, maybe there is a csm for that ;) specing: aren't the chunk coordinates server independent? specing: i.e. given a position I should be able to determine which chunk it falls into and thus its borders BuckarooBanzai: *server specific? BuckarooBanzai: the chunk-size can be set on the server-side, its mostly 5x5x5 mapblocks (i'm not aware of anyone ever changing this) the above tool is for mapblocks, which should be constant anyway BuckarooBanzai: specing: do you want chunks or mapblocks? specing: I want to know where the smallest part that is loaded in ram begins and ends specing: so I can think of and place a solution that will force them to be loaded BuckarooBanzai: that would be on a mapblock basis then BuckarooBanzai: why are you trying to load them? not enough viewing range? specing: to keep my factory in memory when it is running BuckarooBanzai: did you take a look at then forceload functions? BuckarooBanzai: *the specing: There are none on that server BuckarooBanzai: ah, so you want to "afk" forceload the mapblocks? BuckarooBanzai: the calculation from position to mapblock is something like this: math.floor(x / 16) specing: I don't know what that means, but I just want them loaded specing: funny things happen with mesecons being loaded and furnaces not specing: or rather, factory stops producing >_> BuckarooBanzai: it also depends on the active-block range, if this is set to 1 for example you are loading a 3x3x3 mapblock area around you (with you in the center) Guest72065: Hi Guest72065: What's the best way of find the best mods? sfan5: https://content.minetest.net/packages/?type=mod specing: BuckarooBanzai: minetest does that? Doesen't it load all mapblocks that come into active block range? scr267: Anyone know what causes this and how to resolve it: 'WARNING[Server]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id = 0 statically but block (-7,2,-73) already contains 28049 objects' BuckarooBanzai: scr267: pipeworks spill BuckarooBanzai: specing: "loading" = loads mapblocks from the database and shows it to the client / "active mapblocks" = loaded and active mapblock, abm's run in there. Mapblocks are "active" only in that range, yes (or if they are forceloaded but thats another story) specing: BuckarooBanzai: ok. so the term is force-activating scr267: BuckarooBanzai, thanks! any idea how I can delete those 'objects'? can I do a select area then //clearobjects ? BuckarooBanzai: uh, forceloading but sure, yes :) "forceloading" a mapblock can be done from a mod via some lua calls, the are near players is running anyway BuckarooBanzai: *area specing: BuckarooBanzai: my current plan involves sending cobbles on a pipeworks round trip specing: do you think that'd work? BuckarooBanzai: scr267: the objects have been removed already, there is a setting somewhere for the max limit per mapblock BuckarooBanzai: specing: hehe, this _might_ work: if i'm remebering correctly there was an old pipeworks version where the destination of teleport tubes was forceloaded briefly but i'm not sure anymore (VanessaE knows more details :) specing: I'm pretty sure it's still forceloaded specing: forceactivated* specing: when I unload 3 bags of loot through the teleporter tube, it has to distribute to chests or the pipe would break if it did so the next time I visited the receiving end BuckarooBanzai: fyi: pipeworks can distribute items in non-forceloaded areas too fruitsnack: how do I leave a message to a user when he joins the channel? specing: no idea about that, but my factory also includes a normal furnace, and that is probably not loaded in that case fruitsnack: I saw there were some commands for the bot BuckarooBanzai: specing: in which server are you doing that stuff anyway? specing: a 5.3.0 one specing: also, the main goal here is to keep the flower farm loaded, since that thing has low probability of growth each second specing: *very very low BuckarooBanzai: specing: if you are using the "stock" technic-mod then the area around the switching station should stay loaded scr267: BuckarooBanzai, Thanks for your help! :) fruitsnack: MinetestBot commands are available only for ops? fruitsnack: I saw once that it was used to leave a message to me, but I can't find any docs on how to use it specing: BuckarooBanzai: there is no technic fruitsnack: !tell fruitsnack test MinetestBot: You can tell that to yourself sfan5: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md fruitsnack: yes, I found it already fruitsnack: reading it right now scr267: sfan5, Thats a nice bot! scr267: !btc yen MinetestBot: scr267: Unknown currency. Supported currencies: USD, AUD, BRL, CAD, CHF, CLP, CNY, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, INR, ISK, JPY, KRW, NZD, PLN, RUB, SEK, SGD, THB, TRY, TWD scr267: !btc JPY MinetestBot: 1 BTC = 1156396.56 ¥ scr267: hehehe Zughy: hey there; is there a way to set a transparent background for a formspec? I was trying with bgcolor but no luck fruitsnack: !tell balirt yes, I know, but the entity is supposed to be destroyed as soon as player reference becomes invalid (i.e. player disconnects), so I want to check for that directly, instead for indirect signs that this is true MinetestBot: fruitsnack: I'll pass that on when balirt is around Zughy: Like, I have an image as a background which is transparent in some areas, but beneath those areas there is the dull default grey sfan5: use bgcolor to disable the background entirely? sfan5: just guessing MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: content_cao: Support texture animation for upright_sprite (#10020) 139bba52c https://git.io/JJ2eL (152020-07-30T15:39:57Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Falling: Fix error caused by missing param2 13aba8c37 https://git.io/JJ2kG (152020-07-30T17:03:48Z) tf2ftw: hi Guest21347: What is a good game alternative to minetest with fully features? rubenwardy: Guest21347: Mineclone2, Nodecore, and repixture are all good to look at rubenwardy: also see https://content.minetest.net/packages/?type=game Verticen: For alternative game engines to minetest, see terasology (#terasology channel) or oil_boi's 'core' Verticen: But MT is the most developed as of now tbh iamweasel: i dug up a really good youtube review+commentary by tj free and a real journal article from linux magazine :) the search continues, but it looks like the lack of notability is licked fruitsnack: There's also a very interesting game called veloren. It's in pre-alpha but it's very impressive, but more importantly their dev team is very active bebebeko: hello! what the easiest way to draw edges between nodes? the edge should be a transparent node with "line.png" texture and the right orientation? bebebeko: I'm trying to find out how to represent graph like this https://tinyurl.com/y3jwms7y with minetest engine sfan5: you could probably somehow get this to work with entities but that's far from easy sfan5: how do you think an useful line drawing api would look? bebebeko: sfan5: smth like this https://git.io/JJuhw ? sfan5: how does the "vector" concept differ from entities? sfan5: and how would you ever edit or remove an existing line? bebebeko: sfan5: i suppose the line - it's a just the visual line drawed by irrlicht->draw3DLine(...) it's not a "set of entities with transparent mode", also i updated https://git.io/JJuhw bebebeko: but idk how players in the minetest world should interact with lines.. bebebeko: sfan5: finally, i found video https://tinyurl.com/y4ad6x4b specing: does anyone know how to properly run xdotool with minetest? trying to get it to click for me specing: xdotool click --repeat 10 --clearmodifiers --delay 1000 1 specing: This makes some kind of a click, I see the tool animation, but the tool has no effect MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: decode_base64: Allow '=' padding character 13f34abae https://git.io/JJzap (152020-07-29T18:46:42Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add PUT and DELETE request + specific method value to HTTP API (#9909) 13715a123 https://git.io/JJzKD (152020-07-29T21:16:21Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "Get rid of non-ascii characters in the debug display code (#8… 13470f328 https://git.io/JJzK9 (152020-07-29T21:17:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow starting local server using --go again (#10229) 13e5725df https://git.io/JJzKx (152020-07-29T21:20:01Z) fruitsnack: What's the lifetime of the player object reference? fruitsnack: I have an entity that has a player reference in it's on_step, but even when the player leaves the reference is still active for some time (and even returns true to methods like is_player()) fruitsnack: and also crashes the server because I'm trying to get a pos from nonexistent player fruitsnack: What's the reliable way to test if player actually is? compare with get_connected_players()? lmat: Does lava always show up around -350? Boingo: Hello everyone. Getting back into Minetest after a few years off. Got my server up in Docker and installing mods (to test and see which ones I like). I hit a 32000 node limit and I was wondering if there is a way to see how many nodes each mod is using, so I can remove the mods that aren't really important (but possibly taking up a lot of nodes). Corey[m]: someone actually hit the node limit, and here I was worried about using 1000 nodes Boingo: Just testing out all sorts of mods to decide which ones to keep. Corey[m]: Boingo: I don't know of anyway to see what's using all the nodes outside of writing a mod that does it Corey[m]: But you could do the reverse, add mods one by one until it reaches max Boingo: Corey[m]: Is there a way to count? Like number of folders/etc. Boingo: Corey[m]: That still doesn't tell me which mod is using how many nodes. The first one I installed could have used 2, or, 28,000. Corey[m]: Not really, a mod could register all it's nodes from a single file (minetest_game comes to mind with it's default/nodes) Corey[m]: I've never hit the limit, but does it crash once it hits the limit, or does it just throw a warning? Boingo: Hmm.... Boingo: It just won't start. Corey[m]: if it doesn't crash I can whip up a script that dumps all the registered nodes to a text file for you Boingo: Throws an error and won't start. Boingo: Corey[m]: Interesting, that might work...? Corey[m]: well it would be a copy of the same code I use in my mod to generate it's documentation Boingo: Corey[m]: Still sounds very useful. Corey[m]: alright, lemme see if I can find it Boingo: I feel like I installed a bunch of mods, but not so many that I should have hit that limit yet. Boingo: Unless I am way off base. Boingo: So I am wondering if one mod went crazy or something. swift110: hey all Corey[m]: I found the code, I just need to adjust it for your use now Boingo: Corey[m]: Super cool. I appreciate it. Corey[m]: You're gonna have to save some files https://gist.github.com/IceDragon200/f5c4e364ea507d30360bbb8e5380c817 Corey[m]: you can create a directory under your mods called node_dump and save the init.lua and mod.conf in it Corey[m]: then you're gonna have to try removing mods until it does load so the dump can happen Corey[m]: the file will be in the world's directory as exported_nodes.txt Boingo: Trying it now, 1 minutes. Boingo: Looking at the text file now. Corey[m]: that took awhile... Boingo: Hmm.... 32391 lines in the file. lol Corey[m]: yikes Boingo: A 1.8mb txt file.... lol Corey[m]: hopefully you find the offending mod in that ... dump Boingo: I might change the output a bit, to a csv, then I can open/sort it. Corey[m]: you could probably just rename it to .csv and open it in some spreadsheet app Boingo: Yeah, but the numbers aren't in a separate "field" Corey[m]: could you give me a sample of one of the lines, I hope I didn't botch the output Boingo: advtrains:signal_on_30 Boingo: I am not seeing counts... I don't think at least. Boingo: Oh, I see, each node is listed once. swift110: hmm Corey[m]: swift110: Sorry for the late greeting, hello :) Boingo: Corey[m]: Well, the winner, at 20718 is "streets" FrostRanger[m]: oof Boingo: And all the other mods are 11k total (with 4k of that for moreblocks, 1k for technic and 1k for default) Boingo: Yeah, 20k seems like a LOT. Boingo: I thought there must be one mod doing most of it. Boingo: Bummer. streets looked cool for a city I wanted to build. Wonder why it has so many nodes. Maybe it can be fixed, but another day. FrostRanger[m]: Boingo: you could look through it and remove the nodes you don't need swift110: its cool Corey[m] how r u Corey[m]: Doing good, gonna crawl into a corner and sleep now though swift110: oh ok cool Markow: Hi Markow: I'm asking for a friend using Minetest on a tablet, how do you run fast (E or special key on pc keyboard) using a tablet? Thanks. majochup: Markow, I am pretty sure you can do that through the three dots on the side. Let me go check, just a moment! Markow: majochup: Thank you! Markow: I'm asking because this kid claims he can't do it on the tablet, but I'm sure there is a way majochup: Markow, on the newer versions it's a cogwheel. You click on the running stickman (one with a trail behind him) Markow: Newer version of Minetest, or tablet? majochup: On mobile. But the versions for tablet and mobile should be the same. Markow: Ok, thank you majochup ! Markow: I'll tell him! majochup: Always happy to help! duckie: hi Markow: majochup: I asked this kid, Harshita, "Do you have the cogwheel?" He's asking me, "Where is it?" lol Markow: This kid is unbelievable Emerald2: Does he know what a cogwheel is? Markow: He says he's using a Lenova tablet and can't see a cogwheel. He's using Android on it. Markow: I just asked if he knows what a cogwheel is, hold on... Markow: No, he doesn't know what it is Emerald2: Tell him a gear. It's the settings icon I assume? majochup: Markow, the cogwheel is a wheel with some sort of spikes. Best way I can describe it, it's to the right of the screen. Emerald2: 'Wheel with spikes' is a good description. Markow: ok Markow: This kid is hopeless Markow: Unbelievable Emerald2: Does he even have the official app? duckie: hello! Markow: Emerald2: He has a Lenovo Tab. He left the server already. Weird kid. Markow: Well, thanks for the help. Tim to go! _Zaizen_: Hi everyone, can collision boxes be rotated? rubenwardy: Unfortunately not! rubenwardy: Minetest used axis aligned bounding box collision majochup: Aw, tat's such a shame majochup: that's* _Zaizen_: rubenwardy thanks for the info. That's unfortunate but I guess i can resolve my problems by using a cube as the collisionbox until that feature is not present. Boingo: FrostRanger[m]: I will have to look into that. It is really 14 sub mods in a pack, so maybe I can figure out which one is the big one there. Boingo: Admittedly, I am new to minetest modding. Can someone let me know if I am way off base? I searched all of "streets" for register_node, but only got 113 hits, not 20,000+. What am I missing, what should I really be looking for? Boingo: Hmm... some seem to be in loops, so maybe? I guess the real question is, should there be a 1:1 invocation of register_node for each node? balirt: from quickly looking at streets/api_register_all.lua, it seems to iteratively run the register_node command over lists. No idea if 20k nodes are "necessary", but it seems they went with that design decision balirt: maybe they register all color variants as their own nodes balirt: keep in mind this mod was made years ago, possible before a lot of the node param1 and param2 were introduced to avoid excessive node-registration balirt: also, this pops up a lot, creating possible duplicate registered nodes from other mods: "if minetest.get_modpath("moreblocks") or minetest.get_modpath("stairsplus") then balirt: stairsplus:register_all("streets", "concrete", "streets:concrete", ..." MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix incorrect view URL for games 13f948e2c https://git.io/JJuvO (152020-07-28T16:02:32Z) balirt: is there any kind of callback I can trigger upon loading an "unknown" node (such as after mod deinstallation), without knowing the name of the node beforehand? balirt: If i use LBMs, I need to know the name of the specific node beforehand balirt: nevermind, I figured I can use node groups Boingo: balirt: Interesting, I am a bit green still to try and fix that at this point. Maybe a bit more training first (new to minetest/lua, python programmer by trade). Your guess about colors seems valid though. See here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1moV8yPmYb2kPd3p4XsUKMFHlaCw-URe4OuElW8b9qoQ/edit?usp=sharing balirt: yeah, if the mod was made from scratch today, it could probably get away with about 1/6th the registered nodes, by cleverly reusing texture parameters balirt: but that's probably a lot of work to do for 20k nodes Boingo: Sounds great. I don't think I am quite up to that task yet though. balirt: also, given the details and amount of roadsigns, it seems to be specifically made for some sort of driver's training or accurate display of realworld maps,, and not for general use in a game balirt: so if you want a nice collection of mods for a server, it's probably overkill Boingo: It does seem... comprehensive. But it also seems like it might give you awesome cities. :) Boingo: The forum still seems active for the mod. Maybe I can put the question in there. balirt: they'd probably rather petition to raise the number of registered nodes, than redoing all the work :D Boingo: lol Probably, but I suppose it couldn't hurt to ask. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Sanitize world directory names on create. Keep original name separate… 133ce03d1 https://git.io/JJuko (152020-07-28T17:16:57Z) balirt: for items, there is the method is_known(), returning true if the item is registered. Are there arguments for/against this method being available for nodes? Krock: nodes are items, balirt Krock: i.e. contained within minetest.registered_items balirt: oh, I forgot that. that's a good argument then balirt: I just read through the documentation and the question popped up balirt: I mixed up items and craftitems tf2ftw: Hi Miniontoby: Minetest forum down?? Bad gateway error 302 Miniontoby: Some one also has problems Miniontoby: @all Miniontoby: 502 Bad Gateway it says Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: HTTP error 502 Miniontoby: See Miniontoby: Oh wait Miniontoby: !title http://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: HTTP error 502 Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: HTTP error 502 MinetestBot: socket.timeout: The read operation timed out (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/ssl.py", line 631, in read) Miniontoby: Hmm Miniontoby: What Miniontoby: !tell celeron55 socket.timeout: The read operation timed out (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/ssl.py", line 631, in read): MinetestBot said MinetestBot: Miniontoby: I'll pass that on when celeron55 is around Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: HTTP error 502 Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net Miniontoby: Y Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: HTTP error 502 Miniontoby: 502.... Miniontoby: Thats it ye Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: ... Miniontoby: Hmm Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: ... Miniontoby: ...????? Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: HTTP error 502 Miniontoby: Someone problems with the forum Miniontoby: 502 error? Miniontoby: !tell celeron55 minetest forum has 502 error MinetestBot: Miniontoby: I'll pass that on when celeron55 is around Miniontoby: Will bbs Andrey01: It seems the forums don`t work again Andrey01: I get 502 error Andrey01: It has already been so annoying... Emerald2: Have you guys ever heard of moretrees trees just respawning where they were before they were chopped down? Andrey01: The forum kinda works for now bebebeko: folks, i have many attempts to change colorspec for entites from white to black, as mention in documentation i tried: colorspec = {a=255, r=0, g=0, b=0}, colorspec = "black", colorspec = "#000000" but has no effect ShadowBot: bebebeko: Error: That URL raised MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Play place_failed sound if occupied or cannot attach (#9486) 13ae83edd https://git.io/JJ0hY (152020-07-27T17:40:33Z) slemonide: Can I register abm after the game starts? bebebeko: folks, I don't know how googling that, is there an easy way to do entity rotation around himself like on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzftue6zbyM ? I found minetest.rotate_and_place method but not sure about it.. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04tuedel -> 03minetest/minetest_game: sethome: Replace deprecated function calls (#2724) 134858c2b https://git.io/JJRKM (152020-07-26T09:07:15Z) bebebeko: okay, looks like i need some magic with object:set_animation() method calcul0n: bebebeko, there's an automatic_rotate property on entities calcul0n: Set constant rotation in radians per second, positive or negative bebebeko: calcul0n: brilliant! thank you deltasquared: little thing you might all find amusing... experimenting with custom tone mapping in the shaders and I inadvertently created this monstrosity. https://a.uguu.se/PnFCdSm3BiO2_screenshot_20200726_140825.png Zughy: hey there: wouldn't be better if the "Customize" section on the site only pointed to ContentDB? Because for instance the texture pack section is pretty outdated https://www.minetest.net/customize/ Talkless: Hi, I want to start minetest-server for another game, with different world direcotry, but I get: https://paste.debian.net/1157837/ Zughy: deltasquared: same the best way to fall into a pit Talkless: worlds/world is for Lord of the Test Zughy: *seem Talkless: but I want to use different world for different Aftermath game *this time* Talkless: https://paste.debian.net/1157839/ Talkless: how do I ask minetest server to create different directory for that different game Talkless: I'm on Debian Sid Astrobe: Funny, that shader accident reminds me of certain texture pack... Talkless: I want that minetest-server@minetest will launch LOTT, and minetest-server@aftermath would launch Aftermath game, with different /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds/ Astrobe: Don't you confuse the name of the game with the name of the game, or both have the same name? deltasquared: Astrobe: to be honest if I dialed up the colour part and applied some thresholding I'd have deep fried minetest... Talkless: Astrobe: I want different game to have different world directory Talkless: currently I start minetest-server@aftermath but it still uses default worlds/world world directory, which is already used by LOTT Talkless: I don't get it: World 'aftermath' not available. Available worlds Talkless: so how do I create world? Astrobe: I think you need to create a world - say "am" - manually for Aftermath then use "--worldname am" option Talkless: Astrobe: world name is set: Talkless: ExecStart=/usr/lib/minetest/minetestserver --config /etc/minetest/%i.conf --logfile /var/log/minetest/%i.log --gameid aftermath --worldname aftermath Talkless: but log file contains: Talkless: World 'aftermath' not available. Available worlds: Talkless: also where's environment variable documentation? Talkless: is it possibel to avoid --gameid --worldname, and use Environemnt= in override.conf? Astrobe: hmmm checkout your config file. I think it can cobfigure gameid and worlname too, and that could be a conflict Talkless: Astrobe: I've copied minetest.conf into aftermath.conf, maybe I've skipeed somethig. I did change default_game to aftermath Talkless: Astrobe: most of stuff is commented-out, default_game = aftermath Talkless: Astrobe: Iv'e renamed "world" into "lott", but it still selects "lott" then :D Talkless: does not try to create new world Talkless: Astrobe: only after making "worlds" directory empty, it created world "world" (not aftermath) ;/ Talkless: OK so after I have "lott" and "aftermath" worlds, I finaly started.. but: Talkless: https://paste.debian.net/1157841/ Talkless: xban.db: No such file or directory Talkless: "Invalid field inventory_image (expected string got table)" Talkless: I guess that game does not work for 5.3 mintest? :/ Talkless: gal minetest'as per naujas tam game'ui Krock: Talkless: update the mod and then report it to the autor Krock: also mobs_redo Talkless: Krock: reported on Aftermath thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=378202#p378202 Talkless: Krock: do you know is it possible to avoid --gameid --worldname by using env. varibales? Talkless: Krock: so I don't have to rewrite ExecStart= ? Krock: there's no such option Talkless: so waht's the point of having minetest-server@ then? Krock: unless you create a script Talkless: option with %i to select different config Talkless: if that's ONLY for config Talkless: well and for log file... Krock: that's if you specify a map_dir in minetest.conf Talkless: Krock: and no worldname in .conf too? Talkless: default_game is there, yes. Talkless: so that if I create minetest-server@foo it would read /etc/minetest/foo.conf and there would be specfiied different worldname Krock: map_dir points to the world you want to use bebebeko: folks, is there way to mass remove entities by specific tag/group? Krock: the game id is then evaluated using the world's configuration Talkless: Krock: what if I want to create new world? Krock: bebebeko: which tags or groups? armor groups? Talkless: Krock: Iv'e got "World 'aftermath' not available. Available worlds:" before... Talkless: Krock: had to make sure that worlds directory is empty Talkless: /var/games/minetest-game/.minetrst/world that is Talkless: worlds* Astrobe: There's also default/item_entity.lua to update if Aftermath is based on MTG. Krock: mkdir worlds/myworld && echo gameid = aftermath >worlds/myworld/world.mt Astrobe: Otherwise you'll get a crash with falling nodes, IIRC. Krock: or specify "default_game = aftermath" in minetest.conf Krock: that must create a new world if it does not exist yet Krock: Talkless: I think the best strat here would be to move most of it into the minetest.conf file you're specifying on startup Talkless: Krock: I have map_dir=/var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds/aftermath/ Talkless: Krock: but I get 2020-07-26 16:52:04: ERROR[Main]: No world path specified or found. Talkless: default_game = aftermath, yes bebebeko: Krock: not exactly, i'm added a lot of entities with some metadata, for example entity:get_luaentity():path = "foobar", is there a way to select from minetest engine the entities with where "path == /foobar" filter and then mass remove them bebebeko: s/with/with filter/ Krock: bebebeko: there is no metadata. what you're doing is modifying a Lua table which may vanish at any time Krock: Talkless: okay that's weird... does it create worlds using the default settings? Krock: i.e. only with a --worldname specified Talkless: Krock: it creates world if no worlds present, I've hade to move "world" (which was for LOTT) outside of the dir Krock: oh wait. --world /path/to/world Astrobe: Th trailing slash in the pathspec is ok? Talkless: Krock: it ignored --worldname, just auto-selected "world" Krock: Talkless: I assume that's a fallback name back when there was only one world available in Minetest (0.3.1) bebebeko: Krock: yep, i know, i just said it an for example, my question is there any proper way to select entities from minetest engine by some filter/tag/group/whatever? Krock: bebebeko: you could get all entities within the range of 60E3 (gonna be enough for sure) at position (0,0,0) Krock: though that would only show loaded entities Krock: there's currently no way to retrieve mapblock data or entity data from unloaded mapblocks Talkless: Krock: if I have override.conf like this: https://paste.debian.net/1157843/ Talkless: Krock: I get this: 2020-07-26 16:56:32: ERROR[Main]: Error writing configuration file: "aftermath/world.mt" Krock: Talkless: wrong link? bebebeko: Krock: thank you! \o/ Talkless: Krock: n Talkless: no Krock: Talkless: what kind of a override.conf file is that? Krock: for a systemd service? Talkless: Krock: /etc/systemd/system/minetest-server@aftermath.service.d/override.conf Krock: ahhh gotcha Talkless: Krock: I want to have different serices for LOTT and Aftermath, and any other game Krock: how does your --config file look like? Talkless: with diferent worlds in /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds/ Krock: bebebeko: Krock: !nextr Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Talkless: Krock: https://paste.debian.net/1157844/ Krock: good so far Talkless: Krock: and it would be nice to avoid overriding ExecStart... Talkless: MINETEST_WORLDNAME env would help Krock: yes but I suppose you cannot do that at the moment Talkless: Krock: maybe map_dir should be path to "words" ? Krock: to me it just look like the systemd service user does not have access to /var/games Talkless: Krock: anyway, I'll remove map_dir and use --worldname instead Krock: map_dir should be a pretty solid choice, though. The startup argument handling isn't perfect Talkless: Krock: I've removed map_dir, and my ExecStart now is: Krock: just to make sure: the file permissions are alright for this world? Talkless: ExecStart=/usr/lib/minetest/minetestserver --config /etc/minetest/%i.conf --logfile /var/log/minetest/%i.log --worldname aftermath Talkless: and it works Krock: what Talkless: Krock: yes, it's "Debian-minetest games" Talkless: Krock: well I still get these Lua errors Talkless: but that's different issue Krock: yes sure but it's very strange to me that map_dir does not work properly in this case Talkless: Krock: maybe it does not have to be full absolute path? Just name? Krock: oh.it's because it's called "map-dir" Talkless: OK let me try Krock: this setting is too old to follow naming specs Talkless: removed --worldname Talkless: Krock: No world path specified or found. :/ Talkless: I'll see what sysdig says, what paths it searches Krock: according to main.cpp L683 it's supposed to work like that Krock: works for me... Krock: ./minetest --server Krock: 2020-07-26 16:07:31: ACTION[Main]: World at [/SNIP/worlds/mtg/] Talkless: `sudo sysdig "proc.name=minetestserver" 2>&1 | fgrep .minetest | tee /tmp/sysdig` gives me: Talkless: https://paste.debian.net/1157845/ Krock: ./minetest --server --config ../minetestt.conf << works too Talkless: Krock: you mean map_dir works? Krock: "map-dir" works Krock: presumably the only minetest.conf setting that contains a dash Talkless: ihm Talkless: uhm Talkless: Krock: it get EACCESS: 286877 17:12:01.611858382 1 minetestserver (29440) < mkdir res=-13(EACCES) path=aftermath(/aftermath) Talkless: it tries from root... Talkless: if map-dir = aftermath Krock: what if it's an absolute path? Talkless: Thans Krock for the help! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Astrobe: 250+ players in the top 5 servers alone, not bad. fossrox: how changes through player:set_bone_position() influence attached objects? fossrox: is it needed to recalculate something? tyler-2: I can't figure out how to use giveme... how would you do /giveme in mineclone and get a sadle? tyler-2: saddle Astrobe: I guess /giveme mobs:saddle balirt: I have a question regarding engine coding. balirt: Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/6cee1745914327f908316eced3acff30/pasted.txt balirt: since it's bit longer, I uploaded it as a .txt Krock: ...overload the function? balirt: if I wanted that, I could rather than overload the class constructor, instead just rewrite the class... however i'm trying to avoid rewriting that class since every additional change increases the chance of the pull request to be rejected balirt: I have to either not change anything at all, rewrite the HUD_elem class, or find a way to pass several variables in one of its strings balirt: and i'm debating which is less worse from the view of a codeDev balirt: coreDev* Astrobe: Everytime I saw strings abused that way it eventually led to problems - except in TCL maybe. Astrobe: Just because a window is broken, doesn't mean you can break another one. Just do the right thing if your dev is worth its salt. Krock: balirt: hard to tell. I cannot judge concepts well without seeing some code Krock: or even - the final goal Krock: after all inheritance is also possible, and might solve some of your problems balirt: goal: to make the HUD in minetest able to play animated images just like the animated_image formspec element balirt: problem: I need to pass minimum 3 new s32 variables and the only unused field in my HUD_elem class is a single string field Krock: make a new field balirt: other HUD_elem classes also misuse unused string fields, such as the waypoints element balirt: so I was trying to be as similar as possible to existing accepted code balirt: I guess in this case, rewriting the class with new fields is the better approach balirt: since the other "mis-uses" only use a string to store a string Krock: you don't need to rewrite that much. replace driver-> calls to draw images to a function that handles animations Krock: ..which then calls to the render function balirt: that would work if I had a single standard way of doing it, and modders can only call this way with their HUD element fields balirt: I wanted to make possible the other functions of the animated_Image formspec field, such as: set speed of animation, set animation start frame, set height of animation frame balirt: and make all those available to mods that call a normal HUD element in lua balirt: but the HUD element has so few arguments I can pass through q_q balirt: I didn't want to make it worse than the formspec thing, but I don't have enough fields to pass the variables through balirt: of course one can always say "default height of HUD animation is always 100 pixels, and framerate is always 15, deal with it", then I don't need to pass these through with the hud_elem Krock: HUDs could have better parsing anyway. structs inside an union, and per-element reading from network Krock: instead of everything being a single huge blob Krock: of random named variables and usages balirt: it would make sense to do that, which is already the way formspecs do it (sort of) balirt: however, then there is the argument whether it would be better long-term to make HUD a special part of formspecs anyway balirt: which would break everything, and requires everyone to be satisfied with current formspecs balirt: another can of worms... Krock: I had the ActiveObject command message handling in mind, but formspec is also a bit into this direction Krock: content_cao.cpp L1553, for example balirt: I hadn't looked at that. Yes, seems even more general. However, I think it's a bit overkill for the HUD unless you want to really render anything in game, also in the HUD balirt: formspecs are very limited, but in a way that makes sense for HUD elements as well unless you want to render half the game on the HUD tyler-2: Astrobe: cannot give unknown item. :-/ thanks for the attempt! Krock: hmm.. yet no search features on gitea Krock: tyler-2: https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/src/branch/master/mods/ENTITIES/mobs_mc/1_items_default.lua#L254-L263 Astrobe: Maybe mobs_horse:saddle then. Krock: /giveme mobs:saddle tyler-2: That was tried. :-) /giveme mobs_horse:saddle ain't it eitger tyler-2: Nor mobs_mc:saddle Krock: grep -r "saddle" Krock: that'll find it inside your mineclone2 directory Corey[m]: Would be nice if there was a /lsitems mod:* command or something tyler-2: I'm probably just gonna go looking at player inventory in the db, oof Krock: if you have one in your inventory, turn on the item name setting in minetest.conf Krock: > tooltip_append_itemname = true Astrobe: or a /giveme "saddle" and MT does the popular "did you mean game..." Astrobe: GCC does it after all... Krock: google too tyler-2: Tried to google and got nothing. Will try those others. Astrobe: Is it an argument against the idea? ;-) Corey[m]: hmm saddle eh, lemme see if I'll fair better with a grep for you tyler-2 Corey[m]: tyler-2: try mcl_mobitems:saddle Astrobe: I see. It was translated in German :-) tyler-2: That did it! Thanks Corey[m] and others who tried! Corey[m]: You're welcome :) Andrey01: Hello Andrey01: Does anybody know are there any Irrlicht Q&A forums or IRC channel? Andrey01: stackexchange.com like doesn`t have similar one _Zaizen_: Hi everyone, does anyone know how to remove from the object itself in an oop where I have table to remove after setting the value at nil. Doing self = nil doesn't work, does anyone have an idea on how to do that? _Zaizen_: I have a situation similar to this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38274561/remove-self-in-lua but I do not want to index by the object. sfan5: keep the key you need inside the object then you can set it to nil correctly _Zaizen_: So if I remove the key the whole "object" would be gone? sfan5: define "gone" _Zaizen_: Not present in the table. sfan5: if you do object_table[key] = nil the object will be gone yes _Zaizen_: Thank you sfan5, I will try that way. blaise: what is the minetest mod with the trains? sfan5: !mod advtrains MinetestBot: sfan5: Advanced Trains [advtrains] by orwell - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14726 - https://github.com/h-v-smacker/advtrains_granite blaise: Yass, thank you blaise: :D freelikegnu: hmm is there a way to find out where dungeons have been generated in existing map gens (like v7)? freelikegnu: minetest.get_gen_notify() is only returning "dungeon, temple, decoration" bebebeko: damn, only after 7 months of experimenting with minetest, i'm discovered builtin/games/*.lua files ....https://git.io/JJBqK bebebeko: guys, how i can increase the distance for the pointing, as mentioned in wiki, the pointing thing can be increased to 10 when create_mode is enabled, how i can increase pointing distance up to 200 for example? sfan5: override the hand item and set range_max sfan5: sorry, it's called "range" bebebeko: s/create_mode/creative_mode/ bebebeko: sfan5: thank you again \o/ swift110: hey all xfedora117: Hey swift fruitsnack: How's fonts in minetest are handled? Is there a way to use custom fonts on my server? Or it's a clientside only thing sfan5: client-side Zughy: uhm.. hey there, my F7 doesn't seem to work anymore and I have no idea what I touched. How can I fix it? iamweasel: it's c now Zughy: ...... GRRR reaction iamweasel: you can change it in key menu as usual swift110: hey bebebeko: guys, is there a way to change the texture for a specific entity "on the fly" (after he was created)? bebebeko: oh sh~ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3528 bebebeko: very sad :( Astrobe: Proly best you can do: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25089 bebebeko: Astrobe: thank you, nice catch! looks like i just need to calc entity:set_properties with new textures like this https://codeberg.org/Hamlet/mobs_mime/src/branch/master/core/procedures.lua#L43 bebebeko: s/calc/call/ bebebeko: Astrobe: it works! thank you again bebebeko: what the best and easiest way to get information about in which tool player uses to punching the entity? i have tried to get tool info in event:on_punched(... tool_capabilites ..) but tool_capabilites contains metrics of the tool :/ bebebeko: s/event:on_punched/entity:on_punched/ ofc sfan5: check the wielded item of the puncher bebebeko: sfan5: thank you very much specing: Now this is interesting specing: a blinky plant stopped working - permanent on calcul0n_: i've seen that a couple time, seems to be a problem with mesecons queue calcul0n_: if it's a singleplayer game restarting it should be enough specing: That means that I cannot rely on blinky plants to clear furnace/crafter stock. I must use digiline injectors calcul0n_: i mean i've seen that maybe two times in years :) fruitsnack: Hey, there's a long time problem with minetest that I've had, there seems to be a memory leak on every server reconnect. I'm restarting my local server quite often while working on mods and my minetest process keeps on grabbing more ram MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add correct front texture to cart texture (#2720) 1312f75ab https://git.io/JJ4Rp (152020-07-24T15:59:42Z) fruitsnack: For example it reaches ~15 gb usage in around 15-20 reconnects sfan5: has already been reported Krock: multiple times actually fruitsnack: ok that's what I wanted to know fruitsnack: In fact I just realized I could've went to github repo and check issues Krock: some media is not cleaned up after leaving a server. long term issue swift110: hey all Flitzpiepe: hello everyone bebebeko: guys, did I udnerstand correctly, there no way to bind some minetest action to keypress (for example, if "insert" was pressed, CSM send some data to server through mod_channel) ? sfan5: currently not, correct bebebeko: thank you again sfan5 bebebeko: smth like this https://gist.github.com/metacoma/3664ae76fcd2fd88153ce4627347ce93 bebebeko: i don't know, may be create an issue in githab for this feature? bebebeko: maybe it will be usable for community (or maybe not) bebebeko: oh wait https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7008 specing: Is there any blueprint on how to make copy/paste in/out of minetest work? specing: It seems so sporadic specing: no line numbers on the mesecons microcontroller code window :( specing: Also would be nice if the font was fixed width rubenwardy: 5.4.0 will allow mods to choose monospace fonts rubenwardy: And copy and paste is an irrlicht issue, how well it works depends on your platform rubenwardy: I tend to find I need to paste twice SoylentCow: heh yeah on linux i get that too Zughy: Hey there. Is it normal that the same button background is a bit opaque when the slot doesn't contain a picture? (the EDIT ME is an item_image_button, the others an image_button) https://i.imgur.com/5Ivatbx.png Zughy: They're both "style_type[image_button;border=false;bgimg=the_pic]" rubenwardy: that's not nomral rubenwardy: maybe it's getting a dummy image? Zughy: idk, the empty buttons are declared like so: ""image_button[" .. x .. "," .. y .. ";1,1;;EMPTY;]" rubenwardy: eek, check for dummy image warnings rubenwardy: wait rubenwardy: that's the name rubenwardy: should be fine then rubenwardy: what's bgimg? rubenwardy: like, if bgimg is that opague image, then the behaviour is correct rubenwardy: the bgimg is still drawn even if the foreground image doesn't exist Zughy: no, item_image_buttons and image_buttons use the same background Zughy: ok: basically if you notice, there is a semi-transparent black image on those, if you look at the corners Zughy: and I can't understand how to get rid of it rubenwardy: hmm rubenwardy: try blank.png, maybe? rubenwardy: well rubenwardy: actually, there should be an error if it's making dummy images rubenwardy: if there's no error for that, then I'd open an issue rubenwardy: or you could poke around the code yourself, it's in guiButton* in client/gui and it mostly contained rubenwardy: there may be something weird there Zughy: black.png works btw, thanks! Zughy: *blank Zughy: I'll look into it Zughy: yup, zero warnings specing: Hmm, is assigning a function to a variable forbidden in mesecons luacontroller? calcul0n_: specing, afaik you can assign it to a variable but not store it in mem specing: ah ok, I was trying to store it in mem... MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace std::list in networking code (#10215) 138ca6021 https://git.io/JJ8EY (152020-07-23T17:47:58Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve default inventory+wield images of node drawtypes (#9299) 13808fa5e https://git.io/JJ8EE (152020-07-23T17:54:58Z) specing: rubenwardy: it seems that I need not to paste twice, but copy twice specing: at least in the outside->inside direction Zughy: hey people: where can I find a list of all the textcolor(s) supported for the textarea? calcul0n_: here i think : https://drafts.csswg.org/css-color/#named-colors calcul0n_: (i found that link somewhere in the lua api) Zughy: ty calcul0n_ SoylentCow: -------------------------------------------------------------------- SoylentCow: is there a way to give items at spawn, on character creation? i feel like there is something i could put in .conf, but what? SoylentCow: oh nmd give_initial_stuff.... SoylentCow: thanks rubenwardy :F SoylentCow: talk about a crooked smile... disillusion: oh shit there's a lot of users in here swift110: does anyone here play minetest on a tablet? swift110: hey disillusion disillusion: hi! swift110: lots of users but many are perennially idle disillusion: I've never played Minecraft but decided to try Minetest in order to try 3D city design stuff on linux. swift110: how r u disillusion disillusion: so I ran a server just as an experiment, brought some people I know in, and they're all addicted to it. disillusion: this quarantine has made it a way for us to bond with other family, and kids seem to love it swift110: thstd really cool disillusion disillusion: anyway, how do I find the log files for a server I'm running with the GUI, but it's running in flatpak? Extex: sfan5: oof sorry I only just saw that now... Well I don't know how groups and tools work :3 always avoided them xD swift110: i heard of this years ago and plY IT RARELY BUT I REALLY LIKE THE EPROJECT disillusion: I started running a Mineclone 2 server and now people are addicted, but I haven't yet figured out how to run a Mineclone 2 server on its own, so need the GUI, but occasionally want to see the log files. swift110: I was thinking of doing a server myself disillusion: I can't find the config and log files when running a server on the gui on flatpak Lone_Wolf: Not familiar with flatpak but I think you can find it if you search for a `debug.txt` file disillusion: swift110, I run a openvpn server that gets people securely connected, plus I have nextcloud server running which we all use for group voice and video chat as well as file sharing. disillusion: nextcloud now comes with built-in group video chat, all run from the browser so there's no setup for the clients Lone_Wolf: 'it' being the log file disillusion: oh this reminds me, a HUGE problem to solve: mac mouse cannot right click, thus making minetest almost unusable. If someone can fix the game so a mac mouse can right click (or keyboard alternative), that would be great. Lone_Wolf: Need more devs with a mac lol disillusion: it was a huge pain in the ass to get a mac user on the game, since I had to find a version for 10 year old mac. But then we learned there's no way to right click on a mac, so mac users can't build in minetest, only walk around and observe. swift110: oh wow disillusion swift110: lol disillusion: they don't feel like buying a pc mouse swift110: oh disillusion: I wouldn't be surprised if there are others who discover this issue when running minetest on a mac swift110: then get a radical mouse Emerald2: Guy I'm talking to said for the mac person to doubleclick. Lone_Wolf: hah Lone_Wolf: So it uses the android setup? disillusion: people need to start making youtube videos of themselves playing minetest like the minecrafters do. disillusion: what's a good way of doing that on linux? swift110: oh swift110: disillusion, they do swift110: richard jeffries on youtube disillusion: I mean with people doing something in the game for the first time and people total goofballs disillusion: I should have been recording some of these people. It's basically a lot like the goofballs on minecraft, but I don't think people know you can have just as much fun on the free stuff as you can on Minecraft. disillusion: the current youtube vids of minetest are usually just one person explaining the game and maybe showing some stuff, but not showing a group getting crazy and having fun. swift110: oh swift110: why dont you be that person then disillusion: lol anyone can try it by talking some people into playing the game, and if they're over 21 convincing them to drink alcohol while playing, and just record what everyone's doing. swift110: lol swift110: i would do it but dont need alcohol osprey_: Greetings SoylentCow: 3Moooooooo!!!! Extex: Oof no Extex: Osprey left :/ swift110: hey os swift110: hey Extex Extex: Uhh hi TovSvetov: why using OpenBLAS through ffi causes minetest crashes? TovSvetov: in pure luajit everything works fine TovSvetov: (pure—without minetest) sfan5: TovSvetov: "crashes" in what sense? do you get an error message? TovSvetov: sfan5: no, minetest just closes sfan5: I suggest debugging that with gdb then TovSvetov: on Windows it can be tricky sfan5: another debugging should also work but I'm familiar with gdb myself and it can be used on Windows too sfan5: debugger* bebebeko: folks, i have a strange question, i'm added two entities, first one at position {x = 1, y = 1, z = 1} and the second placed at { x = 12, y = 12, z = 12 } is there way to draw a LINE between these entites? calcul0n__: i'd create a line entity and play with orientation/scaling calcul0n__: don't know if there's a better way bebebeko: calcul0n__: thank you Andrey01: hello Andrey01: is it possible to adjust altitude of the clouds extension? sfan5: yes Andrey01: and how? bairradino: I just installed minetest server usin this site instructions on ubuntu https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server/Debian on a raspberry pi bairradino: the server is running and i changed the port on the minetest.conf to 30010 bairradino: when i try to connect the load bar stops at media 0% and then gives this error: Access denied. Reason: Connection timed out. bairradino: any idea? i did use the save game/world from a client and used on the apropiate sfan5: are you sure the port was changed correctly? bairradino: sfan5, yes, i checked at the log bairradino: i did find this error bairradino: 2020-07-22 15:14:49: ERROR[Server]: saveMapMeta: could not write /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds/Mundo do Mateus/map_meta.txt bairradino: 2020-07-22 15:14:49: ERROR[Server]: saveMapMeta: could not write /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds/Mundo do Mateus/map_meta.txt bairradino: could it be a permissions issue with the folder? since the original owner is different? bairradino: i used zip to try and avoid it... bairradino: I tried with a different user, a new one, it asked for the registration thing and after thet the connection timed out sfan5: firewall? bairradino: it was running on my sons laptop from the gui client and i could connect. bairradino: does ubuntu has a firewall by default? sfan5: don't think so bairradino: let me try to port scan my network bairradino: the last line of the log is like this Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. sfan5: then the port was not changed correctly bairradino: i just deleted the world and the server made a new one and i entered bairradino: so, the problem is with the save files somewhere bairradino: maybe the useres or permissions... sfan5: ?? sfan5: if your log says "listening on 0.0.0.0:30000." then it's is not listening on port 30010 and you should fix that first bairradino: i changed it to see if it was that the problrm bairradino: i connected with 30010 and same problem. bairradino: i am connected and playing on the server but not with the world save i had.... bairradino: something on the world save is not allowing me to connect to the server, we werent using passwords could it be that? i could edit the sqlite if needed bairradino: sfan5, I fixed it, i compiled it myself and i am running it from the compilation folder, specing: > rubenwardy | How can we (core devs) facilliate the development of a community-led Minetest Game? specing: I don't know the answer to that, but an admin complained to me that mods do not follow common configuration formats specing: Perhaps forcing mods to be configured the same way would be a great start? specing: minetest_game 6d2a897e1bb9e6af31f3b2b5e8e28cb1cf4892f7 breaks for me on 5.2.0 specing: 2020-07-23 00:20:26: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Failed to load and run script from /home/specing/.minetest/games/minetest_game/mods/creative/init.lua: specing: 2020-07-23 00:20:26: ERROR[Main]: ...ing/.minetest/games/minetest_game/mods/creative/init.lua:35: attempt to call upvalue 'old_is_creative_enabled' (a nil value) bairradino: starting my stream in 5 minutes - Technical playing - Expanding my bonemeal farm http://twitch.tv/bairradino specing: cc: sfan5 sfan5: minetest_game 5.3.0 is not compatible with 5.2.0 specing: Ok, I have a bunch of local checkouts for development purposes. checked out 5.2.0 now and it works balirt: he has a relaxing voice, I'm going to fall asleep to this fedora117: Why does 5.3 break 5.2 compatibility? fedora117: I'm on 5.2 right now and I can still use mods from 4.x series.... fedora117: Nvm I'm on 5.1* swift110: hey swift110: lol SoylentCow: where am i? SoylentCow: mt Extex: How do I make something take like 3 seconds to break no matter the tool? Extex: Anybody? Flitzpiepe: hello everyone Guest4875: How is the preference list of minetest development? I mean what comes first: feature request or bugs? Guest4875: I'm wondering if put feature request issues in github will waste developers time balirt: @Extex look at this part of the documentation: balirt: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/groups/#known-damage-and-digging-time-defining-groups balirt: remove all the typical groups used for toolbreaking from your node [such as crumbly, cracky, snappy, etc], and give it the group "oddly_breakable_by_hand=1". balirt: As long as no other tool has the correct groups to dig the node, it should always break after ~3.5seconds bebebeko: rubenwardy: hi, looks like ssl cert on your site is expired. openssl s_client -connect rubenwardy.com:443 < /dev/null 2>&1 | grep -m1 ^notAfter= bebebeko: notAfter=Jul 20 22:41:48 2020 GMT H-H-H: hey guys any windows 64 builders around H-H-H: been trying to build minetest on win 10 64bit by following the readme on github for hrs and keep getting the same errors MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: Fix ConfirmRegistration and PasswordChange input and scale s… 1376afde8 https://git.io/JJWUi (152020-07-21T12:16:25Z) specing: VanessaE: hello, is there a reason why the autocrafter cannot be queried for the crafting recipe? erentar1: how do i find bronze calcul0n: erentar1, you can't find it, craft it with 8 copper ingots and one tin in the middle erentar1: how do i find copper calcul0n: but some mods might change the recipe erentar1: i cant find anything but coal erentar1: stone pickaxe is slow calcul0n: dig deeper :) erentar1: ive got to -150 or so, whereabouts do i find the minerals? calcul0n: you should find some there, maybe they are a bit rare at this level erentar1: what level do i find usable amounts sfan5: below -64 for copper, -128 for tin erentar1: thanks! calcul0n: the best is to go around -1000 but you'll find a lot before you reach it erentar1: oof erentar1: stone pickaxe is kinda painfully slow to get there calcul0n: you should find iron quickly too erentar1: i have filled a chest full of cobble and havent found anything but coal yet balirt: do the texture overlaying commands work nested, so each overlaid texture can be changed individually (ex. with [mask, [colorize ) calcul0n: don't despair, you're on the right way :) erentar1: thanks lol erentar1: this information is nowhere to be found erentar1: gotta add it to the wiki balirt: its probably in the ore generator erentar1: https://wiki.minetest.net/Ore#Ores_overview FeXoR: Hello dear miners o/ FeXoR: Falling on a boat onto solid ground does not result in damage.I checked for a bug report on FeXoR: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game FeXoR: But didn't find any open bug concerning this. FeXoR: Is that the correct place to report the bug in the first place? sfan5: yes balirt: why is your boat on solid ground anyway, sounds like you should fire the navigator FeXoR: Hehe :p FeXoR: Thanks sfan5 ;) * FeXoR: gets the feeling that if that gets fixed a lot of player will be sad x) balirt: is falldamage triggered by colliding with any physical entities? balirt: or can you jump 1000 blocks and land on a chicken balirt: I wonder whether "yes" or "no" would be the better option here FeXoR: You plainly cannot get damage by falling when mounted n a boat. FeXoR: (While that is a bold thesis dot having read through the code I tested this a lot. It's my preferred way of getting into a mine several thousand block below my home when no other means or teleportation is available;) FeXoR: *on FeXoR: *not swift110: does anyone here play minetest on a tablet? fedora117: No but I've played it on Android. Anything other than the desktop/laptop experience is terrible and I'd recommend just using a real computer. FeXoR: Thanks for your swift reply sfan5 ;) bebebeko: folks, i have many entities with nametags https://i.ibb.co/SwNF9Gn/screencast.png, how i can limit visibility for entity nametags ? bebebeko: i mean, limit disatance for nametags visibility sfan5: hm I don't think that's possible sfan5: unless you do it manually by hiding the nametag from Lua when no player is close freelikegnu: !seen Sokomine MinetestBot: freelikegnu: sokomine was last seen at 2020-07-19 19:55:08 UTC on #minetest-hub balirt: who do I need to bribe to get a HUD API for animated_image, same as the formspec element bebebeko: sfan5: thanks, got it balirt: how many ounces of gold Krock: balirt: 10 would be good, 40 if you're nice and 100 if it should happen within this decade without any further asking Krock: some code already exists, thus most of it will be copy&paste and wiring documentation for it Krock: though it might be possible to extend the currently existing image HUD element to specify the tiles count and delay balirt: that would be a price of 18k $ and at the end, I couldn't even rant about it anymore balirt: I'll think about it Krock: balirt: most changes are done by those who want it most due to their own motivation Krock: generally speaking balirt: I'll try my best, my first obstacle will be to find where formspecs are defined in the source FeXoR: Is this meant serious: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2710 balirt: it can be only a matter of years until I'll make a horrible pullrequest fedora117: Lol pay me $350 USD I'll get it done in 2 weeks Krock: balirt: src/gui/guiAnimatedImage.cpp balirt: too late, Krock showed me the code, it's all gonna be smooth sailing from now on rubenwardy: FeXoR: yes Krock: src/client/hud.cpp for the hud elements balirt: I'll compensate my lack of programming experience with unwavering enthusiasm fedora117: lol Krock: that's a good approach FeXoR: May I request an audience with you rubenwardy? I do not want to spam this channel :p Krock: /query rubenwardy fedora117: I honestly don't know why people don't have a bounty source set up for Minetest. We'd finally get stuff done. freelikegnu: commence hacking the matrix! Krock: there are bounties rubenwardy: sure, although I'm about to start cookin Krock: rubenwardy: install libpthread and you'll be fine with multitasking FeXoR: Oh, I just finished eating ;) rubenwardy: nahh, std::thread rubenwardy: C++11, baby Krock: that's somewhat C++11 ish rubenwardy: std::thread actually uses pthread under the surface, on some platforms Krock: you still gotta link it with pthread to get it working rubenwardy: snap Krock: snap or flatpak FeXoR: And engine without a played game ... is quite worrisome IMO. There is the example of the Spring engine that comes to mind. Krock: isn't Garry's Mod also just an engine, with some default content added to it? freelikegnu: looking forward to minetest with hudface Krock: freelikegnu: hudface? meshes in huds? freelikegnu: http://images.wikia.com/doomevil/images/6/6b/Face.png FeXoR: The older versions of the engine grant more featurs for the players because there at least the AI/Maps/Mods are still compatible with the engine. freelikegnu: meshes would be amazing Krock: oh no. I gave you more ideas Krock: +1 issue incoming FeXoR: 95%is servers is a bit hard to ignore IMO... freelikegnu: remove the hard coded wield with hud meshes Krock: Minetest also had mobs in version 0.3.1 IIRC Krock: 2D-semi-animated rats and dungeon masters Krock: oerkki to freelikegnu: dont we already have animated sprite entities? sfan5: yes Krock: https://wiki.minetest.net/Oerkki freelikegnu: and Little Otik too! * FeXoR: wishes successfull cooking and good appetite to rubenwardy ;) rubenwardy: The problem with MTG is that no one wants to develop it rubenwardy: it's a game that tries to stay neutral and satisfy everyone, but doesn't satisfy anyone rubenwardy: so the best approach is for it to be forked and developed unofficially so it doesn't suffer from politics fedora117: @rubenwardy what would you add to MTG to make it worth the effort? FeXoR: "doesn't satisfy anyone" How can you say that with 95%ish of the server using it? To me it seems that it's not a problem with MTG, it's a problem with people develope games for Minetest. They can do this right now ... yet still most use MGT at least as basis. rubenwardy: 95% of servers using it _with mods_ rubenwardy: entering maintenance only mode still allows that rubenwardy: fedora117: well, progression is fairly broken - there's no point in tin and bronze, you can obtain iron and mese very quickly. The world is very bland, there's no mobs or anything interactive. It's missing a personality and _fun_ FeXoR: (I definitely can understand that developing a "base game" can be somewhat a drag for development. But untill there is another game that actually can keep pace with faster engine development and has proven by being used more often, then, sure!) balirt: there's always a compromise between adding structured help (mapgen, items, inventory menu) to make the entry for modders as easy as possible, and staying neutral from the engine on the other side balirt: I think MTG's popularity shows that, while there might not be a right answer, the current compromise worked well up to now rubenwardy: MTG doesn't keep pace with engine development rubenwardy: it barely uses any newer features, because features already aren't being added rubenwardy: https://content.minetest.net/threads/235/#reply-502 FeXoR: I see that leading to a similar situation like the spring engine faces: There are just a hand full of mods that run with the new engine and about 10 games happen there each day. There is only one mod left and that also contains a lot more bugs like say 10 years ago: Zero-K rubenwardy: we're already in a situation where MTG is stagnating, this decision won't change that much rubenwardy: the decision just confirms the reality rubenwardy: now, you can change the reality rubenwardy: but only if there are people willing to do so FeXoR: Yes, I understand that MTG doesn't get updated. But what game does that is played, say, by at least 10% of the users of the MT engine? rubenwardy: Minetest Game is a waste of my time because of the massive amount of effort it takes to do anything with it rubenwardy: as I said earlier, it should be forked to be developed further. There would be two games - one which is a base for modding and maintenance only, the other which actually has some personality FeXoR: So you aim for a less complete but easier to mod base game? rubenwardy: no, exactly the same as it is now FeXoR: ...and that will still be shipped and developed with the engine? rubenwardy: the eventual aim is for nothing to be shipped with the engine FeXoR: Sorry, wasn't reading fast enough x) rubenwardy: you have two users groups pulling Minetest Game in two directions. Splitting it into effectly two games - one for stability/modding, the other as a good base game - helps resolve that conflict FeXoR: And who will youse your well developed engine then? FeXoR: Where does your beleave in that game will be developed eventually come from? rubenwardy: modders and users, as always rubenwardy: the mainmenu will have a game launch screen where you can download Minetest Game, or any other game FeXoR: Like you can tell from MTG :D rubenwardy: well, it's not happening currently FeXoR: Ah, wait! There's another example: The flare engine! FeXoR: Yes, and what does make you beleave it will happen in the future? Oo rubenwardy: An alternative to this is to divorce Minetest Game from the engine rubenwardy: make it unofficial, get maintainers that aren't necessarily linked with core developers rubenwardy: doesn't necessarily need to be unofficial FeXoR: Then you lose the vast majority of player base ... even if only 1% or so can be brought to make meaningfull contributions to the engine or a game that's still not nothing! rubenwardy: just away from paramat, and less conservative FeXoR: Yea, I see... freelikegnu: hmm Flare needs a mod hub balirt: I guess that would solve the problem of constantly-growing backwards-compatibility issues preventing engine change balirt: but there's a very good reason backwards compatibility is so treasured now, and its the majority of the userbase rubenwardy: another benefit of not packaging MTG with the engine is that it then doesn't need to be tied to engine releases. You can update from within the client, and release more often FeXoR: I whish you the best of luck. rubenwardy: MTG isn't working currently Corey[m]: it's broken? Corey[m]: I didn't realize, but then again I run it from source FeXoR: Yes, so you have an engine that is not used or am I getting something wrong there? :D rubenwardy: there's NodeCore, IKEA, and MineClone2 Corey[m]: Nah, I've been working on my own base game (NoKore), where I split up default into smaller mods balirt: he got a point though, if the engine can be developed aggressively AND someone gives users a decent base to jump from, that will be accepted by users as the new "standard" Corey[m]: so I expect my own stuff to be hella broken, but hearing that the shipped game is broken, is kinda eh sfan5: balirt: the need for backwards compatibility doesn't go away with decoupling MTG Warr1024: NodeCore I happen to know has very good backwards compat. I spun up a world not long ago that was from the very early NodeCore era and it works just fine... FeXoR: I agree sfan5. The player base build up over years on servers is more interested in stability. (Sure at some point a not maintained engine will simply fail to build, too) balirt: I think that MTG could, in case of a split, if necessary or desired, stay on an old engine version...but you guys have been here longer and probably know better about that balirt: and if their engine REALLY fails they'll bite the bullet and update Warr1024: People are interested in stability, but they're also very interested in heroin, as you can see from the market for it. That doesn't necessarily mean that's people actually need though. balirt: look at sorcerykid and a lot of the core community guys here (devs included), that rebase old popular mods if there's just enough desire Corey[m]: I agree, divorce MTG from the engine and put it on LTS support (for those who need the stability), maintained by the community, then fork it and have an edge version (which isn't shy about breaking things) Corey[m]: it would be easier with an edge version to work side by side with engine development, so bugs are worked out before official releases sfan5: games "staying" on an older version doesn't really make sense since games do not have the choice of which engine you run them with (and even if, you can connect with a 5.3 or future client to a 5.0 server) freelikegnu: even with "compatability updates" people still run old servers, seems almost pointless specing: FeXoR: Can you elaborate on the "There is only one mod left and that also contains a lot more bugs like say 10 years ago: Zero-K"? specing: the "left" part rubenwardy: How can we (core devs) facilliate the development of a community-led Minetest Game? specing: springrts can't really be compared to minetest apart from both having a lua api freelikegnu: rubenwardy: I dunno, let the community have more influence? specing: In springrts, you don't add addons to games like you do here in minetest Warr1024: ruben: establish the bylaws and other framework around deciding what goes in or does not. specing: and in springrts, there is a lobby system ensuring that everyone has the correct engine version. There is no need for backwards compat Warr1024: e.g. figure out how things like nomination and voting works, etc. Corey[m]: rubenwardy: Move it away from the minetest org, maybe create a new one called minetest-games, pick some volunteers from the community to lead that new org? freelikegnu: don't punish potential developers with rebase hell? fedora117: bylaws will be a quick way to kill development. Just say you want high quality code only. Warr1024: I'm thinking more along the lines of stuff like who gets a say in what happens with it and how and where people's voices will be counted. freelikegnu: well... its up to the Pr developer to keep their code current.. that was a little unfair rubenwardy: that's the problem with MTG rubenwardy: MTG devs required the craftguide mod to be rewritten, where the original mod is fine as-is Warr1024: the problem with "community" is that figuring out who's part of it and who isn't is a big pain... freelikegnu: people who take time to make code and post a PR seem like people worth condsidering Warr1024 Warr1024: alternatively you could simply stop maintaining MTG as a game and establish it as an API specification only, and allow people to produce independent implementations of it that extend it in any way that isn't against the spec. FeXoR: specing: Do you mean there are other spring engine games played a lot? Or what is broken now that was not boken 10 years ago? (The second: The lobby is broken for me on both linux and windows and takes minutes to check for an update before even attempting to start. The unit motion was working fine (besides units pushed into terrain they couldn't pass) but now you have units that don't attack when attack moving...) rubenwardy: that's the idea behind the issue FeXoR posted Corey[m]: freelikegnu: That's a pretty low standard, I'd like to add, those who explain what their code does, what it solves, and why it's worth merging should be considered Warr1024: It's really hard to design a system that isn't prone to some kind of abuse. For example it would not be hard for me to make a PR to gain voting rights into MTG if that's the criteria. On the other hand, it wouldn't be hard for a cabal of users to block future PRs from getting merged if having one merged is the criteria... FeXoR: (And the patrol order just breaks at a random point in time, the skirmish AI is quite suicidal, ... Warr1024: the best way to do it might be just not to try and to let MTG fragment, and to use a spec to tie it all together instead. Warr1024: thus if someone makes an MTG successor that becomes popular enough to control the "market" then they get to decide what the future of MTG is so long as they can maintain that position. FeXoR: No, specing, the spring lobby doen't only support one engine version. Shall I send you an actual screenshot of it? :D freelikegnu: Corey[m]: I agree but so many PR's get 95% of the way to merging then fall off the map Corey[m]: the other option is to have mod creators move away from MTG (primarily default as a dependency) and build smaller base systems that facillate function across different games FeXoR: Thanks a lot rubenwardy! specing: FeXoR: you are confusing yourself, I never said that it supports only one version. I said that it ensures that players have the correct one for the match that they want to play. FeXoR: You sound like you know what you are doing ;) Warr1024: I suppose in a way that's what we already have, though, i.e. MTG is just one game among many already... Warr1024: Making mods work across games, or at least having mod authors not limit themselves to a single game ecosystem, is really the way to go in the long run anyway FeXoR: Oh, sorry. I got that wrong specing :/ FeXoR: What is the most common game used? specing: FeXoR: There are multiple other spring engine games played a lot, and many more actively developed. FeXoR: second* specing: FeXoR: I don't know, maybe open the actual lobby and check? FeXoR: I do, at least once a week ;) specing: and check the BA and BAR master servers as well FeXoR: Yes, I did ;) FeXoR: I like BA specing: good, so you know which the second most played game is FeXoR: But 10 years ago there where 100s of players every time of the day. FeXoR: Now there are maybe 20? specing: That is true FeXoR: I meant the second popular minetest game. Sorry for the confusion. FeXoR: (I just wanted to point out that some projects did basically desintegrate after decoupling the players to much from the core development) specing: That has been my observation as well specing: I think that it happens once the engine/game developers stop playing the engine/game they develop FeXoR: Yea, that may actually have more impact than the players moving on from a game that develops in a way they might not like :p FeXoR: Mineclone2 and multicraft are both relatively commen according to the server list. fedora117: @rubenwardy What's stopped you from forking and developing that fork all these years? If it really is better server admins would just install your game by default and work on top of that, right? Lone_Wolf: Quite a few of my mods have cross-game compat now. I'm also making an RPG game from scratch (Only borrowed `creative` from MTG), creating engine PRs for some of the things I don't want to work around. Lone_Wolf: If I could I probably would have borrowed a bunch of nodes from MTG, but all the code is tied together with a pretty restrictive license on top of it. It would be nice if there were a well-organized MIT-licensed base I could take from and do whatever I want with Extex: Ok so I have a tool Extex: And it needs to break a specific in like 5 seconds Extex: It'll have a special group too Extex: Also please ping me when you answer sfan5: start a timer to break the tool in the inventory after it was used sfan5: you can set some key in the itemstack meta to prevent players from dropping it after use (thus avoiding destruction) Exte: Oof lag Exte: sfan5: well I kinda wanted to use groups and tools Extex: Yay I'm Extex again lol sfan5: is there something preventing you from implementing that with groups/tools? finnwww: I'm not able to open Minetest on Crostini under Chrome OS. It just opens for a sec and then exits with the error "Quit message received". Anybody else have this problem? SoylentCow: i have a question about minetest forums: when i select pms and try moving them into a different folder or do any other action like delete, it says: The submitted form was invalid. Try submitting again. SoylentCow: i can move messages one by one from within the message though SoylentCow: is that like a forum bug, or am i doing something wrong? specing: I wonder- why does the furnace not have multiple slots for items and multiple for fuel? SoylentCow: it's traditional theolodger: oh Markow: Hi everyone. Huge question. I'm currently on a Minetest server and I have my area protected (the server uses "Areas" mod). There is a player, without any special privileges, he is able to walk righ through protected walls!!! How is this possible? Markow: I asked him and he said it is a "glitch" which allows him to do this, but he will not tell me how it is done Markow: He walks through any protected area through the walls. I have no idea how this is being done. Markow: This player is unable to destroy my protected blocks though. He can only "walk through" them Markow: The only "privs" we have are: fast home interact money shout Markow: The server version being used is 5.0.1. My MT client is 5.3.0. Markow: Is it possible a server version that old has the glitch I mentioned? Markow: I notice that this player "punches" the blocks in the protected area and just walks right through it Markow: But the blocks are not destroyed bdju: can 1 node of water stop fall damage from 100 blocks or so? I died and I want to know if I hit the edge of the next node or if the water was the problem bdju: I'm using dynamic liquids in case that matters Markow: Oh well, everyone must be either busy or sleeping, or working bdju: yes probably (sorry I don't know about your problem btw) luk3yx: Markow: The client predicts that the node will be destroyed, and it's possible to sneak through before the server can correct it. Markow: luk3yx: But how is that player able to do it, and I canno do it. We have the same privs. Markow: I asked that player how it is being done. No explanation, silence. luk3yx: Markow: Latency Markow: How is it controlled? Markow: What timing is used? luk3yx: If you're closer to the server it will take less time for the correction to be sent to your computer specing: luk3yx: why doesen't the server correct the player's position as well? Markow: I don't think that player runs the server. But being close enough to it is sufficient to take advantage of the latency? specing: maybe they modified the latency? specing: it's possible to tell your OS to delay minetest's packets by a few seconds specing: you could try it out yourself Markow: Ah, yes, with Iptables specing: no, with qdisc Markow: Thanks for the response. It's hard to believe the lengths some players go through just to compromise a game specing: I haven't tried this myself specing: you should 1) file a bug 2) tell the admins to ban that player Emerald2: It's annoying when they do that. I've seen people turn off and on their wifi to break into secured areas on some servers. Emerald2: And yeah, if there's enough lag you can straight up dig through some walls and get through before the blocks get replaced. Markow: I wonder if there is a way in MT to prevent that, or in the mod? * Emerald2: shrugs. Emerald2: Above my paygrade. ;) specing: if the server doesen't check player position for correctness then you could just program an arbitrary teleport command into the client specing: no need to lagbreak walls Markow: Would be a nice workaround to fix in MT, if possible Markow: Well, at least the player wasn't allowed to destroy the blocks, that is important, to prevent griefing. Emerald2: Position correction is tricky though. Add in lag and it starts throwing players around the place. specing: yes, I'm mostly concerned with chests and dig protection working Markow: But still, some privacy is nice when you get these kids in your face, not leaving you alone during gameplay. Markow: They just follow you around, everywhere you go Emerald2: I had that problem on some servers. specing: knockback is also broken in minetest. You can get armor, find a rat and a wall. And the rat attacks will push you until you end up INSIDE the wall specing: and you will take damage from being inside the wall. And you will have to dig yourself out Markow: Overall though, "areas" mod is a great one. Essential to avoid griefers. Emerald2: And much simpler than placing protection blocks all over your build. Emerald2: And certainly less ugly. :) Markow: Is there a mechanism in MT for the server owner to see the IP addresses of those who join? Markow: Or that must be done using standard Linux CLI commands? sfan5: specing: you can indeed teleport to arbitrary locations provided the elapsed time matches player walk speed specing: that's a serious bug, then sfan5: also the issue you're describing with knockback and a wall sounds like a bug in the mob mod balirt: I wonder how much work it would be to allow setting a damage group for the damage_per_second of a node balirt: currently, one can only differ between the node types that cause the nodedamage by checking for the "reason=node_damage" in the "minetest.register_on_player_hpchange" callback balirt: and then checking the surrounding nodes and guessing which node caused it sfan5: guessing? doesn't the damage table give the name of the node? balirt: the amount of damage doesn't need to be guessed, but I want to have the information on which node caused the damage balirt: so I can both make the cactus collision box yield a constant damage, and prevent the constant damage from it when sam wears iron shoes balirt: it all comes back to the cursed cactus issue, and the lack of on_contact events balirt: but having a more general method in c++ would be nice since querying over the environment blocks of all players (or entities) at each on_step is kind of excessive balirt: imagine wanting to make a skeletonmob have that damage, and requiring to check each creeper's surrounding blocks every step sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4474 balirt: ...well now I feel stupid balirt: sorry for my inability to read the api balirt: I was reading in https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html and I guess it claims it's outdated for a reason sfan5: there's https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ which is up to date sfan5: but it's not on a single page, somewhat inconvenient balirt: I had that bookmarked but switched to the old one for precisely this convenience :D balirt: well with that solution, I can't think of any ungrateful complaints anymore balirt: you guys really fix/enhance everything eventually sfan5: eventually balirt: only takes a few decades at most balirt: maybe in 20 years we'll have custom tool animations and animated pictures in HUD and item textures balirt: at that point we can basically call it an unreal engine-lite balirt: and rebuild AAA games of 2020 inside balirt: nvm I think found a workaround balirt: is there a way one could make a block/texture invisible to some people, and visible to others at the same time? balirt: in other words, make a render command dependent on the player ID Tumby: Hello, I saw in a 5.0.0 changelog video that global textures are in the game, which allow nodes to look less repetitive. But I can't find any information on how to use them balirt: can this video answer some of your questions? he creates a global texture and then shows it's use, including code. his minetest version is 5.1.0 so should be accurate balirt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLNvq6xKjCQ balirt: (@Tumby) Tumby: thats exactly what i need, thank you. i wonder why google didnt just show me that djenkins_: Is it possible for a mod to trigger a screenshot (I'd like to do this as part of some semi-automatted debugging / AI/ML mapgen annealing. djenkins_: If not, would it be difficult to add a "minetest.screenshot(pos, vector)" api? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6932 sfan5: there used to be one but it was removed as you can see djenkins_: bummer, ty sfan5: if you run server and client on the same system i'm sure you could use system APIs to create a screenshot (after positioning the player correctly) u0_a259: hey i seem to be having problems launching minetest: https://0bin.net/paste/NufyzDCivSBMIakZ#qPzFBL97hcHZqveQygAYmGP-YiLVOczGSH+/qm8H4gg u0_a259: could someone please help me? Krock: update builtin Krock: the minetest binary you're running is probably older than the misc stuff you have installed Krock: check whether "minetest --version" is 5.3.0 u0_a259: sorry if someone answered me but i can't see your messages Lone_Wolf: update builtin Lone_Wolf: the minetest binary you're running is probably older than the misc stuff you have installed Lone_Wolf: check whether "minetest --version" is 5.3.0 Krock: u0_a259: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest Lone_Wolf: heh, forgot about that, guess I could have just linked it u0_a259: i updated my game and it works u0_a259: thanks krock Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! specing: Why do register_craftitem and other functions not require documentation strings? specing: there's description field but it's actually just human readable name! sfan5: documentation strings? specing: yes, like multiple lines of text per item specing: verbosely describing what an item does specing: and what it is MinetestBot: swift110: Jul-12 04:18 UTC Just got a message from Debian's package management system earlier today, "Accepted minetest 5.3.0+repack-1 (source) into unstable" fruitsnack: is it possible to make entity collide with nodes that aren't walkable? For example water fruitsnack: with physical = true sfan5: no fruitsnack: thanks * SoylentCow: wags tail thoughtfully swift110: hey all SoylentCow: yo bebebeko: guys, it's is possible to get ObjectRef for node at some position? my case: i need get ObjectRef for node at position { x = 10, y = 10, z = 10 } and call set_nametag_attributes() method sfan5: nodes are not objects so no you can't do that bebebeko: sfan5: oh sad news :( thank you again sfan5: you can use the waypoint hud element to add a nametag in-world bebebeko: sfan5: I try to find some way to get something like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2BMSdGwlo bebebeko: waypoint hud element can help me? sfan5: hm sfan5: for that case you'd rather use an entity that displays the text sfan5: nametags can give you text display, but not styled like in that video bebebeko: sfan5: okay, thank you, I'll research this way rubenwardy: I actually have some code that makes a fake ObjectRef for a node rubenwardy: it doesn't add any new engine functionality, but it allows you to refer to objects and nodes using a single interface rubenwardy: This is in conquer - I wanted it to be possible to say attack(ref) rather than attack_node and attack_object fruitsnack: Hey, how do I get current itemstack selected in hotbar? fruitsnack: nvm found it NorKle: 5 NorKle: oops NorKle: hi fruitsnack: is there a way to store entity reference in an itemstack metadata? rubenwardy: there's not rubenwardy: you can make your own ID referencing mechanism rubenwardy: like, assign ids when creating entities rubenwardy: use them to track between loads rubenwardy: Minetest's built-in ids are intentionally not exposed to modding, as they are volatile fruitsnack: ok thanks fruitsnack: Another question, can I compare itemstacks, as in, are they the same objects and == them would properly return false or true? fruitsnack: I mean not two different itemstacks with same contents but a same reference to one itemstack sfan5: that behaviour was recently(?) changed to compare contents sfan5: so if you want a specific behaviour it's better to explicitly write out the checks you need sfan5: uh wait, that wasn't merged #9880 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9880 -- LuaItemStack: Add __eq metamethod by ClobberXD fruitsnack: hm, how do I check then if the itemstack is indeed the same, not another itemstack with same contents? rubenwardy: you'd need to compare the location instead fruitsnack: hm, I plan on making a tool that spawns an entity that is active for an arbitrary amount of time, and continuously checks if the wielded stack is the same sfan5: currently itemstack1 == itemstack2 will do that but I wouldn't rely on it sfan5: uh in that case, you cannot expect get_wielded_item() to return the same reference sfan5: s/reference/itemstack/ fruitsnack: yes, in that case the entity is removed fruitsnack: Or you mean it wouldnt return the same itemstack even if wielded itemstack didnt change? sfan5: yes sfan5: in fact I'm pretty sure calling get_wielded_item() twice will get you two different objects fruitsnack: hm, my own ID referencing mechanism with metadata IDs it is them fruitsnack: then* bebebeko: I correctly understand, there is no meta for entities? I need to create my own Lua tables for storing entity's metadata? fruitsnack: I think you can define custom fields directly in entity definition fruitsnack: and access/modify them in entity instances rubenwardy: bebebeko: staticdata is a string representation of an entity rubenwardy: ~book entit rubenwardy: !book entit MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Objects, Players, and Entities - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/objects.html rubenwardy: You'd need to serialize lua members into staticdata rubenwardy: the book has an example bebebeko: fruitsnack, rubenwardy thanks! specing: Hello specing: Any expert on digilines out here? specing: Does a digiline chest or digiline detector tube send its item info in a more usable format in addition to the string in event.msg? specing: or what is the most efficient way to parse that out in a luacontroller. string.split seems unavailable specing: not does event.msg.split(" ") work calcul0n_: specing, i use this function : local s1 = string.find(stack, " ", 1, true) if s1 then return string.sub(stack, 1, s1-1), tonumber(string.sub(stack, s1, string.find(stack, " ", s1+1, true))) else return stack, 1 end calcul0n_: (where stack is event.msg) calcul0n_: it returns two values, name, count specing: excellent, I just discovered that string.find does work in a luacontroller tarrie: which is the best and popular mod for mobs? calcul0n_: tenplus1's mobs_redo is probably the most popular tarrie: thx ill take a look tarrie: are mods server side too? do they require the client to have them? Lone_Wolf: @tarrie, mods are completely server-side, unless you're talking about client side mods, which are completely clientside tarrie: Lone_Wolf: wow thats really cool tarrie: it's my first day trying out minetest and im really impressed Lone_Wolf: If you haven't already you should check out https://content.minetest.net/ Lone_Wolf: If you see a mod you like you can open up Minetest and download the mod from the content menu Lone_Wolf: Or I guess download it from the site and extract into Minetest/mods/ Lone_Wolf: The site has a tag for mob/npc mods actually https://content.minetest.net/packages/?type=mod&page=1&tag=mobs SoylentCow: yah i haven't tried anything else lately because mobs_redo seems super-stable, and real easy to modify SoylentCow: and now it has mob_horse!!! theolodger: hi SoylentCow: yo dalz: can a formspec button detect a right click (and distinguish it from a left click)? Andrey01: !tell Krock the base physics works properly. the vehicle will just accelerate forward or backward without braking, but why if calculate forces and sum then, in my case will it work not as expected? Could you please find out the issue? MinetestBot: Andrey01: I'll pass that on when Krock is around bebebeko: guys, maybe anyone knows the EASIEST way to write some text on the node (dynamically)? sfan5: pretty sure signs_lib has an API bebebeko: sfan5: thank you again, I got little confused by after reading https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1367 bebebeko: s/by// sfan5: the engine provides no out-of-the-box way to do text display on a node bebebeko: yep, go it bebebeko: *got Krock: . MinetestBot: Krock: Jul-18 10:07 UTC the base physics works properly. the vehicle will just accelerate forward or backward without braking, but why if calculate forces and sum then, in my case will it work not as expected? Could you please find out the issue? Andrey01: Is it possible to show more one formspec at the same time? Or will prior ones be destroyed and stay only last showed? sfan5: the latter MinetestBot: fruitsnack: Jul-16 12:03 UTC .com is a long dead fan site. Minetest used to be called minetest-c55 Andrey01: is that will only last formspec stay? fruitsnack: rubenwardy: oh haha, well that makes sense, I thought it's another work of one who shall not be named skyliner_369: I was trying to submit some feedback to feedback.minecraft.net but the submit button is unclickable? skyliner_369: nevermind found out how to fix it. I had to select a second category before switching back to the first. Krock: skyliner_369: wrong channel skyliner_369: DERP skyliner_369: stupid... I thought I clicked minecraft x.x skyliner_369: How 2 mous 4 dummies. where do I find that? Krock: skyliner_369: you'd be surprised something like that exists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJgNpm8cTE8 skyliner_369: nice dalz: hello, is there a way to show a formspec over another? ideally blocking the backgroud one dalz: i'd like to be able to click on a button and get a table of image buttons to select dalz: something like this: https://0x0.st/iv96.png specing: the book UI should be improved so that they have chapters specing: like /help dennisjenkins: This is fascinating: https://springrts.com/wiki/Lua_Performance BruceMustache: I can't see nssm mobs in my worlds BruceMustache: I'm using minetest 5.3 with nssm, mobs_monster and mobs Krock: BruceMustache: is the mod listed in /mods ? SoylentCow: i think..... every time i update technic, all empty deployers get mese picks???? is that a thing? SoylentCow: this has happened like several times already american_tourist: I know this is off-topic, but is voxel.js still being developed? DrFrankenstone: hah, nice! (re cisoun's screenshot) appguru: indeed dennisjenkins: woohoo... dennisjenkins: minetest: /var/tmp/portage/games-action/minetest-5.3.0/work/minetest-5.3.0/src/script/lua_api/l_nodemeta.cpp:103: static int NodeMetaRef::l_mark_as_private(lua_State*): Assertion `meta' failed. dennisjenkins: well, that sucks. rubenwardy: dennisjenkins: storing a reference to the meta? rubenwardy: Between callbacks m rubenwardy: Haven't check that assertion code, just a guess dennisjenkins: No. I'm developing a mod that is doing so really hacky shit to find good places to spawn buildings of various sizes. it attempted to access a node at a position for a map chunk that was not generated yet. I think. dennisjenkins: I reverted that code and tried something different, so I lost my repro. dennisjenkins: sorry. :) dennisjenkins: I don't store meta refs though. Have to reload them on entry to every method. its not safe to store them, iiuc. dennisjenkins: I read your book. Many times. its open in a tab on my browser right now :) fruitsnack: Hello, I was wondering, what's minetest . com? Stumbled upon it accidentally, but the site looks super-shady, google integration and ads everywhere, custom minetest builds, etc, and claims that it's the site of c55 Emerald2: minetest.net is the official site Emerald2: The .com sounds like another fake. Quiark: fruitsnack: it is what you described theolodger: hi theolodger: lol Emerald2: Hey theolodger. Need help with something? theolodger: hi theolodger: just waiting for minetest to stop freezing theolodger: on 92% media lol Emerald2: Joining a server with lots of media to download? Emerald2: You can try clearing the cache if it keeps happening. Emerald2: I'm going to go read in bed. Meh to winter. Happy minetesting. :) rubenwardy: !tell fruitsnack .com is a long dead fan site. Minetest used to be called minetest-c55 MinetestBot: rubenwardy: I'll pass that on when fruitsnack is around MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "Auto delete MetaData when = 0 (#8770)" (#10183) 1382731d0 https://git.io/JJGx1 (152020-07-16T17:11:24Z) SoylentCow: dennisjenkins: if you load an area into voxel array, it will be available; you don't have to actually use the array after that, you can just use slow commands like add_node Krock: as long you don't write down the voxel data afterwards SoylentCow: yeah lol if you write it back you will overwrite your slow changes specing: Is there a list of servers by mod? Krock: specing: /mods specing: Krock: hmm? Krock: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods#Listing_server_mods specing: Krock: I want a list of all servers that run mods x,y an z, not a list of mods on a particular server Krock: needs a custom filter script to read in and process the json file Krock: interestingly it's possible to plot the servers to a 3D or 2D grid to find similar servers. https://krock-works.uk.to/u/minetest_server_mods.gif specing: Krock: how does one retrive the json? I can't find it anywhere Krock: specing: servers.minetest.net/list <-- also mentioned in minetest.conf.example specing: Interesting, the blocky survival one is the only one with terumet specing: Ah no specing: Aurelium has it, but I guess blocky one does not advertise its mods? specing: Some servers are not even in the list specing: wth specing: and I see them with the ingame server list SoylentCow: the mysterious mysteries of the server list.... SoylentCow: i suppose, if one puts mods code into game folder, they would become invisible to this query SoylentCow: so there are definitely ways to prevent the reporting of mods MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add lava environment sound (#2683) 13e193f9f https://git.io/JJZJP (152020-07-16T21:26:13Z) Extex: Does anybody know if there is any block that technic Corium can't break SoylentCow: reading the node definition, i am not quite sure how it breaks nodes SoylentCow: via radiation? SoylentCow: i am very interested in this issue, because i have a feeling that strongly radiating nodes can remove nodes in protected areas (can they?) skyliner_369: I'm looking for a good modpack for more structure generation. EG more dungeons, towers, villages, random houses, so on skyliner_369: not modpack... just mod. a mod or a few mods to add varied generated buildings. SoylentCow: that would be sweet skyliner_369: I'm surprised there isn't already one DrFrankenstone: if you google "minetest villages" you'll get a few, but I'm not aware of any good dungeon ones DrFrankenstone: is there an algorithm for boring a tunnel/cave through rock in an arbitrary direction? I'm currently drawing 3 orthagonal circles of air, and stepping one node at a time along a path before drawing the circles again, but it doesn't leave a nice shape if the path direction is near 45 degrees, and it's rather inefficient. DrFrankenstone: hmm, I think it'll boil down to finding an efficient way to generate a perfect 1-node thick sphere-shell, and optionally reducing that to a hemisphere pointed along the cave normal Quiark: well it's like drawing a thick line in an image editor, right? DrFrankenstone: yeah, but in 3D. With lua I have 2 optimization problems: reduce the number of set_node calls that need to be made, and prevent the lua code from ballooning out into millions of lines. Quiark: how about voxelbuffer or wth is it called SoylentCow: how arbitrary is direction? like any angle in polar coords? or the 24 easy grid directions? SoylentCow: 26 DrFrankenstone: yeah, it is using a voxelbuffer so I guess the set_node [equivalent] calls aren't too bad. The direction is arbitray - could be up or down etc. specing: Hello. Is there a callback that is called once a new item is added to your inventory? guzzi: contentdb site is filtering games backwards guzzi: ascending instead of descending guzzi: i am clicking 'games' nav menu guzzi: it doesn't sort descending guzzi: probably helpfull to include which way you want to sort the games. guzzi: on the games page. guzzi: if this is going to be the default now rubenwardy: I changed the default sort order from desc to asc yesterday, but forgot to change it everywhere rubenwardy: I'll change it back, it doesn't make sense H4mlet: oh, a palindrome nick katp32: hi, the server list always loads super inconsistently for me, surely someone else has noticed this right? sfan5: inconsistently? katp32: yeah, sometimes it loads and other times it just hangs forever katp32: more often than not it just hangs katp32: I've ignored it for a while just assuming it was a version-specific bug but it's followed me all the way from the 4.* series up to the latest rubenwardy: I've not seen it katp32: I get a timeout error in console, although the URL loads fine in a browser katp32: ...guess increasing the timeout would be the sensible thing to do, I'm not very smart am I :P katp32: yeah, it works now; guess the issue was just my internet being slow enough that it doesn't load most of the time. increasing the default timeout to more than 5 seconds would probably be good though, wouldn't it? rubenwardy: can you play online with that? katp32: yup rubenwardy: guzzi: fixed hisforever: Hi I'm having trouble with lpanes, here is a pastbin https://pastebin.com/tryMWp0m Krock: remove dreambuilder modpack Krock: or remove duplicated mods manually hisforever: ok Krock thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Rafi59: Hello, I have found an issue with Minetest 5.3.0, the F9 minimap crash the client when server version is inferior to 5.1.0 any ideas ? Krock: Hi Krock: does it also crash with other hotkeys, or with the minimap in general? Krock: example server? I could run a debug build there to trace down the bug Krock: ^ Rafi59 Rafi59: Not tested with other hotkeys but it's affecting the android version, the minimap opens for a sec and the client crashes just after it Krock: then please install logcat and figure out how to get logs from Minetest * Krock: summons rubenwardy * Krock: murders a goat to see whether that helps scr267: Not sure if the goat helped scr267: Try sacrificing something else scr267: ;-) * Krock: sacrifices scr267 scr267: Oh damn - I didn't expect that... Krock: >:D * scr267: becomes a ghost scr267: Example server is : aurelium scr267: Do you need the IP and Port? Rafi59: I'm currently trying with the my computer Krock: testing with latest master, PC Krock: works just fine, no crash rubenwardy: I can't reproduce the crash on Android Krock: thanks. problem solved Krock: ...if it were that easy. could also be Android-Version dependent dennisjenkins: Sacraficing goats won't help minetest, but it is a known cure for improperly terminated SCSI cables: https://www.staff.uni-mainz.de/neuffer/scsi/fun.html Krock: cut them Krock: NO Krock: this poorly derminated goat Krock: dennisjenkins: are they talking about SCSI for harddrives? SCSI is a connector type, so I'm not quite sure dennisjenkins: SCSI is a cable spec, command language, protocol. It connects (or used to back in the day) way more than just drives. dennisjenkins: The old ATAPI (ide) spec was replaced by PATA. SCSI with SAS. Then they took the SAS command set (originally form SCSI) and used that to make SATA (iirc) dennisjenkins: so it all converged ~30 years later. Krock: alternative timelines combined dennisjenkins: but SCSI was a beast. It was far faster than old ATAPI, but required special impedance matching terminators at both ends of the "chain". dennisjenkins: you could attach multiple devices, even multiple "adapter cards" to the same chain, so long as each had its own scsi-id. dennisjenkins: Some old database fail-over systems did this. Two computers, 14 drives, all one chain. Krock: long chains = fragile dennisjenkins: $DIETY help you if both computers thought that they were the active/master. Andrey01: hello Krock: hi Andrey01: could anybody help me with a mod please? Krock: yes, somebody can. Andrey01: ok, I have a problem with movement of vehicle Andrey01: if player sits inside that and presses forward, that vehicle will move with constant velocity and only after a while abruptly stop scr267: Thanks for checking it out Krock Krock: scr267: well.. I reached nothing scr267: Yeah but you took the time to check... its appreciated. Krock: :) scr267: I'll sacrifice a lamb in thanks Andrey01: otherwise if press backward, at first it will move very slowly and only if you release the key, it will accelerate and abruptly stop again Andrey01: see mod source on github: https://github.com/Andrey2470T/adv_vehicles2 Krock: properly indenting the code would be a first attempt Andrey01: oops, now I will fix Krock: also avoid force calculations for now. just set the acceleration directly Krock: so that you can be sure the basics work to proceed with advanced physics calclations Andrey01: I`ve made a commit with more proper identing, is it ok? Andrey01: hmm, what acceleration would I need to set? Krock: for up/down controls, use self.object:set_acceleration({x=self.move_dir, y=0, z=0}) and skip the code after get_velocity in on_step Krock: L172: self.object:set_acceleration(acc}) <-- this does not work. you'll get an error message frm mLua hisforever: I'm crashing and I'd like to know why? https://pastebin.com/3f9YrkvV bdju: how do I grant players on a server the ability to use the minimap? can't find the info on the minetest.conf wiki page hisforever: https://pastebin.com/3f9YrkvV sfan5: in minetest_game the "map" item does that sfan5: alternatively granting them creative mode will also enable the minimap bdju: oh... I definitely don't want creative mode bdju: argh another item that needs iron. the early-game sure is rough hisforever: sfan5: I'm crashing ? here is a past bin https://pastebin.com/3f9YrkvV sfan5: no idea hisforever: ok thanks for the comback God bless SoylentCow: ciosun was super-kind and updated the post with license: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=74513#p74513 SoylentCow: cisoun^ SoylentCow: omg how did my photo end up at the forums???? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=198294#p198294 SoylentCow: 3question: how bad is backing up minetest world without stopping server? i feel like if a few nodes get borked, it's worth it search_social: what minetest needs is a package manager! kappa SoylentCow: and a good internal editor, with syntax highlight & native lua scripting SoylentCow: 9on a serious note, i am having trouble finding wallpaper-quality logo, so i am just gonna blow up the official logo, why not, works for xonotie freelikegnu: Build the logo in game, screenshot and bewm freelikegnu: people that want to code in game have mesecons/technic etc... SoylentCow: i rly like this one :) https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=104134#p104134 SoylentCow: no license though :( SoylentCow: i can't do that, freelikegnu, i can't design my way out of a paper box freelikegnu: are you planning to redistribute? SoylentCow: wor wikipedia SoylentCow: for freelikegnu: ask politely, could not hurt SoylentCow: yeah, it's in the works :) freelikegnu: good luck! SoylentCow: actually... when you blow it up, the official logo looks just right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest freelikegnu: look there is a mob in the cave... SoylentCow: ikr this logo shreds SoylentCow: gee review may take 7 weeks they say SoylentCow: i like it how they seem to be going in random order, so it's an exponentially distributed waiting time for everyone, i <3 wikipedia SoylentCow: what is the default avatar's name? SoylentCow: in minetest? Emerald2: Sam. SoylentCow: awesome sauce DrFrankenstone: SoylentCow, the opening line "Minetest is a sandbox video game developed by the Minetest team." sounds like a truism/circular, would "developed by open-source volunteers." be better, or "developed by a volunteer community". You can read the first two paragraphs and not know it's open source instead of commercial. freelikegnu: more fitting may be "Minetest is a multiplatform voxel game engine developed by the community with contributions curated by a core team of ruthless, iron-fisted but otherwise benevolent dictators" rubenwardy: it's more the a oligocracy than a dictatorship rubenwardy: well, I guess it is a dictatorship as celeron55 has ultimate power freelikegnu: maybe from your point of view :D freelikegnu: to me it looks like a bunch of decorated generals with large mustaches and folded arms freelikegnu: with some missing a limb or two freelikegnu: but I'm happy to frolic on lovely hills, in thick forests and deep caverns so lovingly maintained freelikegnu: yes oligocracy is more fitting freelikegnu: perhaps oligarchal meritocracy ? freelikegnu: I guess one thing worries me about the deprecation of MTG is how my own projects will fit in with other games Lone_Wolf: Mods supporting other games would be quite nice freelikegnu: my goblins use a bit of "default" mod references do I now pack them into my mod? freelikegnu: how do I know what nodes exist in other games? Lone_Wolf: With lavastuff I have separate lua file for each game I support, containing the code to do stuff using that game's features. Then I just detect the game mod I need and run the corresponding lua file freelikegnu: will crafting recipes work? Lone_Wolf: Not with Nodecore, maybe with other games though Lone_Wolf: crafting recipes require at least similar groups across games anyway MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Cleanup ClientLauncher structure (#10160) 134fa1e03 https://git.io/JJsvi (152020-07-14T17:10:37Z) freelikegnu: I think I would leave it up to the game author or players willing to add support somehow Lone_Wolf: If you don't want to be bothered with cross-game support just say you only support Minetest Game Warr1024: crafting recipes will work with nodecore ... but obviously you'd have to use nodecore's crafting system for that. There are a handful of other games out there that also do in-world crafting, but I doubt they use the same crafting API. freelikegnu: I'd take a PR from another games author or player as I have done with other mods Warr1024: To make a mod work cross-game, you basically need to remove all non-optional depends from it, and detect at runtime whether you have at least one of the optional depends, and then if you don't detect ANY supported game, things get a bit tricky. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Add object crosshair and disable entity selectionboxes by default (#9… 1394619d8 https://git.io/JJsv9 (152020-07-14T17:12:17Z) Warr1024: After all, if you support MTG and Voxel Knights but then someone tries to install the mod in IKEA, then you can't rely on the dependency system to catch that for you Lone_Wolf: heh, that's probably one of my biggest PRs, feels nice to have it done now lol Warr1024: So you'll either need to (1) warn the user/admin that the mod was installed but can't be used and its functionality was disabled because no supported game was detected, or (2) just throw an error() at loadtime so that users can be alerted to the problem but aren't given the impression your mod just doesn't do anything. freelikegnu: goblins is quite dependant on mobs_redo and I like how TenPlusOne maintains it Warr1024: Is mobs_redo dependent on MTG though? freelikegnu: I think it depends on a number of things in default mod MinetestBot: 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Add object crosshair, disable entity selectionboxes by default (#9523) 1388ffd64 https://git.io/JJsvj (152020-07-14T17:13:04Z) Warr1024: I mean, I guess you CAN have non-optional depends so long as they're not game-dependent themselves. Krock: CAN or LIN, that's the question freelikegnu: LIN? Warr1024: If you're dependent on a thing that's dependent on MTG then you're locked in. You'll either need to find a different framework then, or convince the author to remove THEIR dependency. Krock: freelikegnu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Interconnect_Network Krock: commonly used with CAN Warr1024: CAN, obviously, being a LAN except where you have soda cans around your wifi antennas to try to boost their range. freelikegnu: I forked mobs_redo for a standalone goblins but its too much to maintain freelikegnu: Krock I'm too easily distracted to click on that rabbit hole Krock: freelikegnu: as long you don't work in the automotive industry you don't need to dig into that :P Warr1024: mobs_redo has a harddep on default and a bunch of softdeps on other mods. You'd have to convince 10+1 to move default into softdeps and just disable whatever it is that actually requires default upon it not being present. It might be something like spawn-on-node rules, in which case those could be detected, disabled, and then your mod would just Warr1024: need to provide your own spawn rules. freelikegnu: Krock, I'm really wanting to dig in to CAN bus, to take more control of my car Lone_Wolf: ~~mobkit and its lack of dependencies ftw~~ freelikegnu: yeah mobkit looks tempting Lone_Wolf: If you don't mind some extra code it's pretty good Lone_Wolf: Allows more unique behavior too Warr1024: "-- detect if using minetest 5.0 by searching for permafrost node" ... D-: freelikegnu: I also like Oil_Boi's mob engine Warr1024: just a quick perusal of mobs_redo makes me already not want to use it :-/ Krock: freelikegnu: you need quite special driver ICs to properly deal with the resistor-terminated signals Krock: but yes, would be interesting. don't cause an accident, though! freelikegnu: Krock: I would not want to bother with hardware outside an OBDII interface, whatever CAN signals I get get there are usually enogh Warr1024: mobs_redo's dependencies look like they're probably incorrect anyway... Warr1024: For example it has a comment about checking for certain default nodes, but has a check for "fire:basic_fire" but doesn't list fire as either kind of dependency. freelikegnu: steach dependency freelikegnu: stealthh dependency freelikegnu: :P Warr1024: Dunno about a stealth dependency, but there is an "invisibility" softdep :-D Warr1024: I dunno if mobkit has a "migration guide for mobs_redo users" sort of thing, but if they don't, adding one might be a good way to increase adoption... freelikegnu: too bad CMI did not take off freelikegnu: how do you see mobs interacting with your game Warr1024 ? Warr1024: very sparesely. Warr1024: Entities are not really "part of the world". Most things can exist as entities transiently, but are nodes in native form. Warr1024: Players are a bit exceptional in that they are always entities and never nodes, so they also aren't "first class citizens" of the world and don't follow the same rules. Nodes live in the world, players just visit. Warr1024: There are a few de facto consequences of this design that have cropped up, like that entities are all non-pointable and can't directly interact. Players don't collide with one another, can't punch each other, etc. Warr1024: Any mob that's a true entity-based mob would probably be expected to follow those conventions if it didn't want to feel duct-taped in. Warr1024: We can have things that move and can be interacted with, but they generally are nodes. There's a mod that adds snakes as nodes as an example of this, though it's not on CDB yet. Warr1024: I mean, there's no rule that you CAN'T make mods for it that add things like mobs in the same sense that other games have. It just might feel a little weird to players who are very familiar with the game's standard mechanics. freelikegnu: yeah goblins are interaction heavy freelikegnu: probably would be out of place Warr1024: well, you could always try it and see, esp if it's just a matter of adding checks for different nodes. Probably you'd have to reconsider using mobs_redo though. Warr1024: Or at least find out if not-MTG could be supported SoylentCow: DrFrankenstone: Minetest is a free and open source video game developed by a team of volunteers. SoylentCow: i agree, that sounds better :) SoylentCow: mmmmm SoylentCow: don't like the sound of that "team of volunteers" SoylentCow: this is where the name of the company would go SoylentCow: DrFrankenstone: Minetest is a free and open source video game developed by a team of volunteers, with contributions from the community. Warr1024: I'd think less focus on who's doing it and more focus on what it does sounds better to me. "Developed by the community" is something that's SUPPOSED to be implied to some extent by "open source" SoylentCow: yeah lol looks we have 7 friggin' weeks to make this article better before they even start reviewing it, so let's do it :D freelikegnu: I would hesitate to call it game considering the direction of its development moving away from a standalone experience freelikegnu: I think that's where anyone reading this article would end up being frustrated if they decide to try minetest out freelikegnu: "Why is this not more like Minecraft!?" Where are the mobs, acheivements etc... SoylentCow: i understand what you are saying, i think, but i personally find the Minetest Game to be rather feature-full SoylentCow: no mobs makes it "peaceful" lol SoylentCow: it's a feature SoylentCow: i also think if people actually read this article as far as "customizations", they will know exactly what to expect SoylentCow: at any rate, this is a semantic black hole SoylentCow: it pays to just call it "game" and run SoylentCow: Warr1024: "Developed by the community" in no way implies community development SoylentCow: just look at original adblock+ SoylentCow: sorry freelikegnu: wut? SoylentCow: Warr1024: "open-source" in no way implies community development SoylentCow: actual factual community development is a fantastic feature enabled by the core dev team, and should be lauded freelikegnu: agreed on that point SoylentCow: it is all to easy to make an open-source project no one will want or have no ability to contribute to SoylentCow: so far i went with: 3Minetest is a free and open-source sandbox video game developed by a team of volunteers, with significant contributions from the community. freelikegnu: libre(with footnote) license with active development community with contributions moderate by a core team of volunteers freelikegnu: I think Free Software or Libre Software is better than conflating "free open-source" SoylentCow: that's more of development section fodder, imho Lone_Wolf: Minetest Game isn't going to be bundled with Minetest releases soon Lone_Wolf: So 'game engine' or something similar would be more fitting rubenwardy: SoylentCow: minetest isn't a game Lone_Wolf: IIRC Mindustry is open source but has paid compiled binaries for certain OSes Lone_Wolf: So open source doesn't always mean something is 'fully' free freelikegnu: Really MT seems to have a cathedral+bazaar combo of cathedral engine and bazaar of games and mods to create a complete expereince for end users Warr1024: Community development by itself is not really a feature for users, only for developers. MT's assumption that a Warr1024: ll users will be developers is Warr1024: sometimes an obstacle Warr1024: Much like an overzealous onscreen keyboard can be freelikegnu: someday I'll have to tell someone that they are overly attached like a NFS mount point rubenwardy: We have two user bases though, both developers and users Warr1024: Also, "developed by the community in no way implies community development" is actually sorta correct when you see how many projects there are out there where devs solicit help from the community but end up stuck doing the work themselves anyway rubenwardy: We offer the modding API to dev users, and we offer the client with ContentDB to player users freelikegnu: I think anyone "using" MT is having some kind of development experience... the "game" practically requires putting mods together even if its in a nice GUI SoylentCow: rubenwardy: i know this seems to be a notion among the devs, but once again, i see it as a semantic trap Warr1024: That is no longer a foregone conclusion. With games on CDB it's possible to install one game package and have a pretty complete game experience without having to curate your own modpack. Main menu redesign will be another step in that direction. SoylentCow: when i download minetest binary release, i get a very full-featured "video-game" as most people understand that word SoylentCow: suppose that future release of minetest will JUST ship the engine, but the engine includes menu browser of "games" where users can one-click-pull Minetest Game: same conclusion, it's what gamers in their basements call a game SoylentCow: we can, and perhaps should, explain the game/engine semantics in the development section of the article though Warr1024: The way I understand it, it will be a one (or maybe 2) click pull of MTG, or any other game. There will be a curation process for recommending games to new users who don't yet have preconceptions about which games are good. Any game would be able to earn it's spot on the list by offering one of the best experiences for players. Warr1024: An MTG derivative that makes good changes to MTG, maintains compat with MTG's ecosystem, and somehow manages to navigate the inevitable controversy of anything they do change, could have a shot at knocking MTG itself off it's spot. There may be other games that have their own mod and other add-on ecosystems too. Warr1024: A lot of the trouble with the game/engine semantics is related to the fact that this is an evolving situation and I think people aren't sure how far it will go, i.e. the MT/MTG split. Even if MTG stops being the mandatory default player experience, it will still probably be a while before it stops being the go-to for reproducing bugs, for example Warr1024: (there's a separate project for that goal). * SoylentCow: looks into the crystal ball SoylentCow: the way i see it, this naming controversy is not going away, but i find it inconceivable that minetest project will start shipping an engine without an easy way to get a ___ game going in seconds SoylentCow: please correct me if you think this is where the development is headed bdju: does minetest-server set up a database for me automatically or will I not have one if I didn't set one up? SoylentCow: in which case minetest will remain what everyone outside of minetest community would not hesitate to call a "game", not merely an engine sfan5: bdju: database as in postgres? the default is to use sqlite which is just a file that Minetest will create itself SoylentCow: i think now, rather than putting this into "Development" section, this needs to be in "Customizations", i mean, it's already brought up there, just need to make it clearer SoylentCow: very good discussion, thanks all, things are really a lot clearer to me now Lone_Wolf: In the games tab there is now a '+' button that allows you to instantly got to the games section of the ContentDB Lone_Wolf: *go SoylentCow: oh yeah.... SoylentCow: fun question: what will minetest game be called when/if it's decoupled? Lone_Wolf: It'll keep it's name, you'll just have to download from CDB AFAIK SoylentCow: somehow i think i am not the first to point this out, but why in the world did you people call them "games" and not "modes"? good luck now lol Lone_Wolf: 'modes' and 'mods' are easy to inter-misspell. subgames/games sound fine for me though SoylentCow: oh god you right... SoylentCow: ruleset! SoylentCow: too late, i know Lone_Wolf: Minecraft Bedrock mods are called 'Behavior Packs' SoylentCow: that sounds silly... bdju: sfan5: well, I don't know much about DBs, but yes that kind. like default is sqlite, so do I have a sqlite db running? or is sqlite not like the other kinds of DB and it doesn't have to "run" as a service? I'm not really sure sfan5: sqlite doesn't run as a service but embedded inside the application, so you don't have to worry about anything there bdju: I just saw on the wiki's DB page that there was a "dummy" option so I wondered if certain info wasn't being recorded by default if I hadn't set something up myself bdju: ah, okay. thanks sfan5: nah the dummy backend is just for debugging bdju: I'm running the hudbars mod on a server. The forum thread shows you can have it show icons instead of the bars with numbers. How do I configure this? The readme mentions the advanced menu on the client. The mod dir has default_settings.lua but not a settings.lua to edit. bdju: Should I copy default_settings.lua to settings.lua? and if so should I leave any default values I'm not changing in there or can I delete them and just have new stuff I'm overriding? rubenwardy: Game made using lisp: https://content.minetest.net/packages/siegment/loria/ sfan5: wow tyler-2: Running a Linux dedicated server... how can I sent commands to the server without connecting from the minetest client? rubenwardy: you can compile the server with ncurses, -DENABLE_TERMINAL=1 rubenwardy: then use --terminal rubenwardy: alternatively, I prefer to use the IRC mod and the IRC Commands mods rubenwardy: it lets you log in from IRC, and issue commands sfan5: is there a mod that implements a discord bridge yet? rubenwardy: there's a few tyler-2: Woah @ irc mod rubenwardy: there's this one, but it requires Java: https://content.minetest.net/packages/LMD/adv_chat/ tyler-2: So if the server is running as a systemd unit, I'm assuming ncurses wouldn't be very useful. rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=23166 rubenwardy: probably not tyler-2: Man that sucks. I just wanna fire stuff into minetest from bash scripts or ad-hoc. Ah well. sfan5: you can always write a mode that uses the filesystem to communicate sfan5: mod* tyler-2: _I_ can't, at least not in any reasonable amount of time. Heh. But I appreciate the modability! tyler-2: So I also have this other situation... I am on a really low bandwidth network, and have a few local minetest servers for the kids. The router is intercepting DNS queries for servers.minetest.net and sending them to a local instance of `master-server`. My servers send the first server-announce successfully at server start... but not the `update` ones that follow (at least, there's nothing in the apache lo tyler-2: gs), so they appear on the local server list for 5 minutes and then disappear. Restart the server, boom, it reappears for 5 minutes... The only thing particularly weird about the servers is that I have time_speed=1... Lone_Wolf: This won't work for you? Not fully sure what it does but IIRC it's used by the MineCity owner https://sourceforge.net/projects/minetest-utilities/ tyler-2: NICE. I'll look into that, thanks! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement grouped mode for find_nodes_in_area (#9888) 134b4513a https://git.io/JJs3C (152020-07-14T20:36:53Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspecs: volume and key settings windows can now be closed by doubl… 13cfaef5b https://git.io/JJs34 (152020-07-14T20:37:28Z) Zughy: yee sfan5: by the way, is that meant to work for the pause menu too? Zughy: *panicking* Zughy: yes? Zughy: I mean, it worked even before, on the pause menu sfan5: oh, good then Warr1024: tyler-2: if you want to be able to access an MT terminal from a command line, szutilpack's szutil_consocket exposes a console as a unix-domain socket. bdju: is there a command to restart the server or is the best way to C-c it and start again manually? H4mlet_: sfan5, or rubenwardy or any chan op, could you add #minetest-it to the topic? I've added it to the italian wiki H4mlet_: btw, if you could please add it to the English wiki as well... bdju: how do texture packs work in multiplayer? how do I change mine while on a server? H4mlet_: you must activate it before entering a server bdju: where do I do it from? H4mlet_: "contents" tab, main menu bdju: ah, thanks. I was in the settings/all settings spot H4mlet_: from that tab you can download / activate / deactivate texture packs SoylentCow: 14:28 < freelikegnu> I think Free Software or Libre Software is better than conflating "free open-source" SoylentCow: there's just no good solution to this, imo, and one has to choose between clarity or technical accuracy SoylentCow: i personally feel mentioning open-source is worth it, because the word "free" is too vague, yet being literally open source is perhaps the main feature of "free" SoylentCow: on the other hand, mentioning that it is "free" seems to me just as important, because it was developed within the free software community, which is a specific community built around rms' ideas SoylentCow: "free" also implies zero-cost SoylentCow: so however silly "free and open-source" may sound, i find it kind of a silver bullet for reference purposes SoylentCow: i personally really like he word "libre", but i find it hard to justify its use in this context, because it's neither traditional, nor does it explain much to an english speaker SoylentCow: let alone an "american", cuz they can't even speak english very well :D SoylentCow: j/k lol 8california ftw SoylentCow: but actually, now that we have "free and open-source" in first sentence, i can replace it by just "free" in other places in the article without a loss in meaning dzho: SoylentCow: I try to differentiate between the software, and the communities around them. dzho: if we're talking about the works, the artifacts, the difference in terms matter less because you're talking about the same set of things. dzho: if you're talking about the people, then it really matters a great deal, but then that is easy because it's like any other term you use for people: you can just ask them! dzho: if you want to have an argument, then that's easy too: Be prescriptive as to how you describe people instead of asking them, and wring your hands about descriptions of inanimate objects that are a difference without distinction. SoylentCow: this sounds very insightful, but i am not sure it's helping me with my own internal confusion :) SoylentCow: as a reference writer, though, i feel obligated to present facts in a way that speaks to all kinds of people: people who just care about freedom, as well as people who just care about the type of software license, and let's not forget those who don't give a damn about either, like most gamers :) SoylentCow: from that point of view, different parts of the article should probably stress different aspects of whatever is going on with licensing SoylentCow: ------------ SoylentCow: is there like a roadmap for devs? SoylentCow: future changelog :D ? bdju: what's the recommended mod for in-game recipe lookup? something like notenoughitems from minecraft sfan5: !mod craftguide MinetestBot: sfan5: Crafting Guide [craftguide] by jp - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14088 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide bdju: thanks! freelikegnu: SoylentCow: I'm not sure why you are soliciting opions when you have already convinced yourself of what to do... DrFrankenstone: The free and open-source godot game engine has a wikipedia page, it could also be used as a reference/style guide bdju: seems like based on the ores page on the wiki, you have to go down very far to get iron. is it normal to not have iron for a long time? SoylentCow: i am sorry if i sound preachy, i am extremely grateful for the info provided SoylentCow: i am currently trying to iron the engine/game issue away: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest#Games SoylentCow: i am also looking over the entire article making sure it does not refer to minetest as a "game", though i left "video game" for now SoylentCow: wait...... there's server-side ncurses terminal?????? SoylentCow: gotta <3 a good changelog SoylentCow: does it do ascii graphics rendering? SoylentCow: you know, top-down view could be implemented very nicely in 10rogue/nethack style SoylentCow: roofs would be a challenge rubenwardy: no lol, it allows you to see chat and execute commends SoylentCow: well, i assumed as much, but i was also hoping on controlling an avatar... or like an army of avatars, rts style ReedWade: Hello guys ! Anyone is using an azerty keyboard and fixed the 12345 keybinds ? Emerald2: Wow, GitHub is down. momozor: Hi. I wonder how could I make a subgame with a custom terrain that I made? sfan5: custom as in you want terrain to look like you specify? momozor: yes exactly momozor: and generated everytime a new world of the game is made. momozor: ah nevermind momozor: I've should have checked the FAQ momozor: thanks sfan5: I don't know which FAQ entry resolved your question but it's good that you found an answer momozor: To be exact - https://dev.minetest.net/Modding_FAQ#How_do_I_generate_a_custom_map.3F bdju: is it a bad idea to copy my client mods folder to my server? bdju: I had grabbed some stuff via contentdb and just thought I should avoid re-downloading individual mods if possible heavygale: maybe you want to clone them via git for easy updating or something like that ^^ bdju: oh wow that's a good idea bdju: hm that does someone justify re-grabbing them all bdju: s/one/what bdju: thanks heavygale: :) SoylentCow: where do artists get the nerve to start sharing their creations for free without first learning the arcane intricacies of the copyright law, so that they can annotate their releases appropriately????? * SoylentCow: chews spastically bdju: do mods have to be manually enabled on a server or is git cloning to the mods dir enough? bdju: and should /mods in game show all the mods? I am not seeing many so I suspect it's not working heavygale: check the world.mt in your world dir heavygale: you need to enable mods there rubenwardy: you can also place mods at worlds/myworld/worldmods, and they'll be automatically enabled bdju: ah okay bdju: I'm worried now that the world generated without them being enabled. what are my options? can I delete part of the world dir contents but keep the world.mt file say they're enabled at generation? bdju: otherwise I guess I can try the other thing and place them in that specific spot SoylentCow: you can rm map.sqlite SoylentCow: i do that over and over when i start new server, to make sure the spawn is not stupid :) bdju: nice SoylentCow: you can also delete blocks and they will regen with new mods SoylentCow: like, with deleteblocks command, so that they are actually purged from database bdju: oh that's very cool bdju: what is the gameid value for? is that server name or something else? bdju: I said /mods in-game and they show up now, but how do I clear the text from my screen? heavygale: gameid refers to the games in your /gamesfolder heavygale: * /games folder bdju: ah okay SoylentCow: f2 hide chat ReedWade: Brainless poolparty ? http://dav.misterbanal.net/258d04c8-7fcc-447d-acec-39b092005627.flv BruceMustache: What is the best way to update all minetest mods? SoylentCow: i dunno if that's the best way, but i just git pull them all SoylentCow: i got 86 mods on survivor, for example (some of them actually modpacks, for ~200 mods total), and each one is gitted SoylentCow: about 2 dozen of them i had to modify or bugfi: these ones have 3hightime branch, and to update those i pull master and then merge changes into hightime SoylentCow: you talking server, right? SoylentCow: it's a pain in the neck, but you probably don't want to update all mods at the same time, especially if you run a lot of big ones SoylentCow: because compatibility issues do arise, and are much easier to fix if you encounter them one by one, and have only 1 or 2 mods to blame for each SoylentCow: the above approach also allows me to push my modified branches onto gitlab SoylentCow: also, if you brave, this will do it, run from mods/ SoylentCow: for a in `ls` ; do ( cd $a ; git pul ) ; done SoylentCow: i am assuming a lot of things, like real os & bash, but they are good assumptions, not bad :D SoylentCow: mmmm yeah, though you may wonna erase mods_here.txt before you run that, or else it will try to update minetest dir, which may not be what you want SoylentCow: hey, i was reading that! SoylentCow: anyways, it's taking shape: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest SoylentCow: not sure i can put in much more time tonight, but we'll see SoylentCow: celeron55: that recent interview, i just read it through lol, actually answers some of the questions i been bugging you with, and just priceless reference, great job there :D yayyer: Hi guys SoylentCow: yo cheapie: !tell swift110 Just got a message from Debian's package management system earlier today, "Accepted minetest 5.3.0+repack-1 (source) into unstable" MinetestBot: cheapie: I'll pass that on when swift110 is around SoylentCow: i wonder what is the copyright on this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=86085&sid=68db4ac018ec60a905816d0b4c0941cb#p86085 SoylentCow: hey, look, someone's helping me there, fixin' my template bugs... nice SoylentCow: does celeron55 have a preferred pronoun? Krock: SoylentCow: feel free to take some inspirations from the german version. it's probably the best maintained site Krock: given that you can read it.. SoylentCow: nevermind the pronoun, i wrote it out SoylentCow: i can't read german :( SoylentCow: hahahaha i just took minetest article's skeleton and fleshed it out with minetest details, i think it's looking preeeetty good already SoylentCow: well, i am pooped SoylentCow: i think she needs a few more screenshots of mods and skins, and then we are ready for prime time SoylentCow: would be nice to get something less drab as a big logo, that rogue wallpaper ^^^ is so good, but i can't even figure out where else it was ever published, who made it, and what license SoylentCow: and farm animals! SoylentCow: cows, chickens, weasels soeren6: Hi MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Add FormSpec font styling options (#9763) 132bec83e https://git.io/JJYAM (152020-07-12T07:48:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add reconnect button on error: Too many players (#9405) 131dd6c8e https://git.io/JJYAD (152020-07-12T07:47:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow FormSpec elements to be focused with `set_focus` (#9353) 13e049973 https://git.io/JJYAy (152020-07-12T07:47:05Z) SoylentCow: hahahaha i just took minetest article's skeleton ... SoylentCow: ^^^^^^^^ minecraft DrFrankenstone: SoylentCow, if the image you're interested in is the one that's used as the background on minetest.land, I believe it's originally by cisoun( https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=74513#p74513), and you can probably just ask him - PM him on the forum. I asked him about it for my website and he wa pretty chill DrFrankenstone: *not really *my* website, a website Krock: poor Sam is hidden by the input box fruitsnack: Hello, does minetest.sound_fade() still supports only fading out, or it's possible to fade in too? Krock: it supports both Krock: play a sound at gain 0.01 and then use sound_fade(x, 0.1, 1) or so fruitsnack: I remember back in 0.4.16 or ~5.0 it was automatically killing the sound and its handle fruitsnack: ok thanks Krock: weird. I remember there were fade properties in SimpleSoundSpec... apparetly now removed sfan5: I remember seeing a PR where hecks complained that fading to 0 deletes the handle sfan5: or something similar Krock: there's even a PR around, dunno its status Astrobe: Dropped items that are "punched" by things other than players (e.g. explosion) get "killed" ? I just discovered that after 2-3 years of playing and I am a little bit surprised by this. Krock: yes. there's no inventory to add them, so they're removed Calinou: yeah, that's also the case in Minecraft Astrobe: ok then. thx. Krock: bUt mINEtEsT iS nOT mINEcRAfT Astrobe: I sometimes tell streamers they picked the wrong category (Minetest instead of Minecraft). I sometimes have to wait that they open their inventory to be certain it isn't MT, Astrobe: Streaùesr on Twitch, that is. SoylentCow: DrFrankenstone: thanks :D Glider_IRC: Hello Glider_IRC: I'm on Ubuntu, with the official PPA of Minetest, a recent apt upgrade, make me upgrade the game from 5.2.0 to 5.3.0, but for some reason the game interface is now in russian. My ~/.minetest/minetest.conf have "language = uk" and I don't remember in the game interface where is the language setting. Krock: Settings -> All Settings -> Language Krock: or just edit the file directly Glider_IRC: Sadly I don't see where is "settings" because the word is in russian sfan5: "uk" is the language code for Ukrainian Glider_IRC: The config file is already set with uk. Should I try "us" instead ? Krock: depends on which language you want sfan5: change it to en sfan5: if you want English that is Glider_IRC: Ah, so it's not Russian and uk no more stand for United Kingdom. Glider_IRC: Now I understand what happen, thanks ! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Glider_IRC: =) Zughy: Is this normal in the forum? The user posted a few messages but it says "0" https://i.imgur.com/hkMG0bq.png sfan5: can happen yes rubenwardy: Zughy: off topic isn't counted in post count Zughy: It's "News" actually rubenwardy: GitHub now supports profile readmes: https://github.com/rubenwardy Zughy: Now we know ruben is a wannabe chef rubenwardy: today I'm attempting to make ragu a more traditional way, and also make pasta from scratch Zughy: I'm Italian, be very careful rubenwardy: oooh yes :O rubenwardy: I'm following this recipe: https://www.greatitalianchefs.com/recipes/bolognese-ragu-recipe rubenwardy: I also added some sausage meat, under a recommendation of an italian friend rubenwardy: although it's english not italian rubenwardy: instead of the pork mince, that is fruitsnack: For a moment I thought it's a discussion of some minetest food mod Zughy: fruitsnack: of course it is, ruben is testing recipes to implement them in his new cooking mod "Mamma mia pizzeria" SoylentCow: i pmed cisoun, hopefully he can share this one...... SoylentCow: uploaded a few more sexy pictures of biomes & mods, just missing the title picture now SoylentCow: also, i wonder if i can find some ivory tower research on minetest, gogle scholar shows some Wuzzy: xachman: This is a strange bug that happens sometimes when you can walk around although you're dead Wuzzy: sfan5: do you know what causes this bug to happen, btw? Lone_Wolf: The respawn formspec not being sent Lone_Wolf: Or the packet saying you respawned not reaching the server SoylentCow: regarding the switch to free license: i'll just go through git history on github and take it as a starting point dennisjenkins: If anyone is online and willing to take a look at a weird problem that I'm having w/ a WIP game, I've posted a description to https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=25049 dennisjenkins: TL;DR: The game world is created, the sky is visible/blue/lit, but no light illuminates the terrain. its all black. I can put down a few torches and see stones.. dennisjenkins: this happens when I host the game on a server (a VM on my LAN). dennisjenkins: If I run the game in a local minetest client, it works fine. dennisjenkins: screen shots are linked from my post. dennisjenkins: I've done a bit more debugging / log reading, but I'm stumped atm. dennisjenkins: also, mapgen appears to ignore my "dirt" when ran on the server (ground is entirely bare stone + ore), but when running locally, dirt + trees spawn just fine. rubenwardy: big list of ContentDB changes: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=20174&p=377230#p377230 DrFrankenstone_: rubenwardy, I was going to ask for the ability to browse the reviews people were leaving, now it's already there DrFrankenstone_: good feature Krock: \o/ rubenwardy is/was on fire Emerald2: Oof, collision info missing errors. slemonide: Is it possible to package minetest game into a standalone executable (for windows or linux) that runs the game right away? slemonide: I was thinking about using minetest as a game engine for a jam. vegii: Hi. Noob question, how can I set technic.quarry.maxdepth ? vegii: I couldn't find any file containing that string Fulgen: minetest.conf Fulgen: and iirc there should be a separate file for each world vegii: also, I tried to use /set in-game vegii: and apparently it created a new value but the quarry ignores it bdju: are people aware of all the errors out-of-the-box with dfcaverns? a bunch of angry red text about invalid boolean settings in various files vegii: more precisely, I tried /set -n vegii: apparently, /set -n added a line to the global minetest.conf and the mod ignores it vegii: ...and it also ignores world.mt Krock: world.mt is not available to mods, and not a setting file for this kind of things Krock: you can start a server using a custom minetest.conf path "--config " if that solves some of the problems vegii: I'm fine with any path, as long as the value won't be ignored Krock: bdju: it doesn't matter about people overall, but the mod developer. contact them so that it's fixed asap Krock: vegii: well then, minetest.conf and restart the server/singleplayer vegii: (surely would rather not run minetest as root, but that's not the issue) Krock: beware that manual changes to the file will be reverted as long an instance is running Krock: never run Minetest as root * Krock: goes into standby vegii: never did bdju: https://content.minetest.net/packages/doctor_ew/grappling_hook/ "keyevent" here doesn't find anything on the contentdb. where do I get keyevent? vegii: wow, it... worked vegii: thanks vegii: I gues the file was overwritten vegii: *guess bdju: FaceDeer's version of namegen isn't on the contentdb and he has issues disabled (going there by URL manually redirects to pull requests). How can I ask him if he'll add it to the contentdb? the other version of namegen doesn't work with magma conduits Emerald2: You could message him on the forum. https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=18410 bdju: thanks bdju: is there anything convenient like the contentdb for a dedicated server? bdju: are there plans to make contentdb mods resolve dependencies automatically? I had a few mods fail to load at first because I missed a dependency I didn't know about Emerald2: That's a question for rubenwardy NetherEran: Ruben already has a PR open for it #9995 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9995 -- ContentDB: Add Update All and download queuing by rubenwardy NetherEran: that's the wrong one NetherEran: #9997 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9997 -- [Requires #9995] Add dependency resolution to ContentDB by rubenwardy slemonide: Is there a mod that adds 2d sprite-based mobs? And also makes players 2d? Krock: !mod critter MinetestBot: Krock: fish food (for "watercritters"/mobs_water) [fish_food] by juli - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17184 - https://github.com/cpdef/minetest-fish_food Krock: not that Krock: slemonide: there aren't many of those around. meshes are usually the much fancier option slemonide: But sprites are so cute. Krock: play the minimal game to get a 2D player Krock: minetest_game automatically changes it to a mesh Emerald2: Hooray another forum spammer. SoylentCow: what are, like, the spiffiest default game texture packs? i want a side-by-side lineup for wiki page SoylentCow: i know vanessa has hi-res SoylentCow: what are thouse slick light-tone screenshots people keep posting here? SoylentCow: by default game i mean, minetest_game rubenwardy: I like RPG-16 SoylentCow: oh yeah, thanks! SoylentCow: omg there's a mod browser in the minetest menu?????? rubenwardy: yeah :D SoylentCow: i wonder if all the mods there are libre licensed, does anyone know? rubenwardy: it's been there since 5.0 rubenwardy: yes rubenwardy: by default, all items there are free and openly licensed SoylentCow: oh thanks, this is a great factoid rubenwardy: the website is https://content.minetest.net/ SoylentCow: thanks!! SoylentCow: i think google missed a memo on this one Andrey: It seems the forums are down? Andrey: I get 504 error rubenwardy: yes Andrey: but why? rubenwardy: probably the same reason as befor rubenwardy: chinese bots hitting crappy hardware SoylentCow: oh wow drummyfish's hand paint is niiiiiiice SoylentCow: i am who i am therefore i am who i am SoylentCow: mt shadowmaker: The forum is still down? Krock: no shadowmaker: I have bad connection, and I don't know shadowmaker: Ok. It's my connection Krock: or you're on some blacklist SoylentCow: front page works 4 me shadowmaker: Yeah yeah shadowmaker: It was the wifi slemonide: What do you guys think of terasology? rubenwardy: Impressive, but fills a different niche. It barely ran last time I tried it rubenwardy: I have a high-end laptop but it doesn't have a dedicated GPU rubenwardy: Minetest goes for gameplay over graphics, especially modability SoylentCow: mmm ok this is a tricky one: what would be the best way to refer to voxels? i am worried that using "blocks" is in conflict with 16^3 blocks SoylentCow: or am i just crazy? SoylentCow: minecraft page calls them blocks rubenwardy: The minetest term is nodes Krock: nodes SoylentCow: great, i thought so too Krock: !wiki Terminology MinetestBot: No such page. SoylentCow: thanks Krock: https://dev.minetest.net/index.php?title=Terminology rubenwardy: People will understand blocks or cubes or voxels rubenwardy: Blocks gets a bit confusing rubenwardy: MapBlock was a bad name SoylentCow: true enough, rubenwardy, but overusing "voxels" just makes the text sound weird.... SoylentCow: i like "nodes", just wonna make sure i am not inventing my own lingo slemonide: Can probably use vertices as a synonym for node :3 SwissalpS: did minetest client 5.3 upgrade change minimap default hotkey from F9 to V? Krock: yes Krock: slemonide: you can't Krock: vertices are triangles slemonide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertex slemonide: > Vertex (graph theory), a node in a graph Krock: generally spoken that's true, but used differently in Minetest SoylentCow: that fixed 1-node jump in 5.3 is wow SoylentCow: watching it in videos did not make justice to it, the feeling is way nicer :) technomancy: when I run mine test 5.2.0 from within my tiling WM, it ignores all keyboard and mouse input (except if I get killed I can click the respawn button) technomancy: turning on "auto pause when losing focus" puts it perpetually in pause mode; when I unpause it goes straight back to pause technomancy: any idea what's wrong? technomancy: also turning fullscreen on does not fullscreen it technomancy: ah, switched my keyboard layout to qwerty and now it's working Calinou: Minetest doesn't like non-QWERTY keyboard layouts due to Irrlicht bugs technomancy: weird that having a dvorak layout would cause the mouse to be ignorde tho technomancy: seems to still be super unreliable even in qwerty; I restarted and now I can't even type in any fields on the menu like server address or password Hawk777: If you’re trying to use the numeric keypad, don’t. Minetest also doesn’t seem to like numlock very much, at least under some OSs. technomancy: but the menu accepts mouse clicks while the gameplay does not technomancy: I don't have a numpad SoylentCow: devs: which would you say were the "milestone" releases prior to 5.0.0? any point where a significant contribution was merged in terms of either tech or gameplay? SoylentCow: from the historical point of view? SoylentCow: i mean, this question is for anyone who has an educated opinion, but i figured devs would most likely have one ) SoylentCow: just tell me version ##, i can figure out the rest SoylentCow: check it out, yo, i think it's coming together, though there's a lot of work still to be done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Minetest rubenwardy: 0.4 was the first version to add modding rubenwardy: also, warning! rubenwardy: that article has been deleted and so the moderation is very strict rubenwardy: don't ask us what to write, find sources and write based on those SoylentCow: don't worry, i've been editing wikipedia for more than a decade :) you people have been extremely helpful, and i really hope i can get this bird flying by the end of the weekend :) technomancy: maybe if the name didn't sound so sketchy... SoylentCow: hahahahahah if any one wiki moderator says something like that, i am going to steam-roll them. filling out forms is one of my super-powers rubenwardy: the name sucks, but we have SEO and any attempt to change it results in bikeshedding SoylentCow: lol i thought you meant my nick SoylentCow: i like minetest, better than xonotic :D technomancy: it sounds like a fake game to me SoylentCow: don't fret, we are going to be fine. like i said before, if i was a mod there, i'd delete the old articles myself technomancy: imma try running this on another machine to see if I get the same bugs there; maybe I can just have a separate computer that's just for minetest technomancy: but first I have to get the OS upgraded; this ancient thing is on debian jessie Extex: How do I cut out parts of a string? Extex: Like I have a string with a whole ton of numbers "1825.82736, 247.92869, " ect Extex: And I want to delete the '.' and the numbers following Extex: And it needs to be done on all of the numbers in the string rubenwardy: I'd split, round, then join rubenwardy: you could also use a pattern, but I find them to be less readable rubenwardy: something liks str:gsub("%.[0-9]+,", "") rubenwardy: * str:gsub("%.[0-9]+,", ",") rubenwardy: not tested Extex: Kk tnx rubenwardy: local numbers = str:split(",") for i=1,#numbers do numbers[i] = math.floor(numbers[i]) end local out = table.concat(numbers, ",") rubenwardy: is the split/round/join version Extex: Kk tnx ruben SoylentCow: i just got a new cat, it's been in room less then 1 hour, and it already found the power button on my laptop SoylentCow: <3 <3 <3 rubenwardy: loool oh no rubenwardy: also, do I hear "cat tax"? SoylentCow: oh is there changelog for pre-5? i see some info in news forums but nothing specifically about 0.4.0 SoylentCow: oh wait, i need to see git's long comment.... rubenwardy: oldest version in the changelog is 0.4.3: https://dev.minetest.net/OldChangelog rubenwardy: earlier versions will probably be on c55's wbesite SoylentCow: thanks :) Emerald2: Silly kitty (also, cat tax). SoylentCow: i love the 0.4.0 git release comment, now i have to figure out how to avoid it :) i don't think github shows comments by default, thank you microsoft for being so fucking broken all the time SoylentCow: omg this cat wants to type bad rubenwardy: cat tax - a photo of a cat when said cat was mentioned rubenwardy: :D SoylentCow: argh.... SoylentCow: hold on SoylentCow: http://tehightime.net/luna.jpg BruceMustache: Hello BruceMustache: How can I increase timeout to enter in a server BruceMustache: 2020-07-11 20:12:32: ERROR[Main]: Connection timed out. BruceMustache: this is the log rubenwardy: thanks for the pic :D Emerald2: Kitty! rubenwardy: BruceMustache: are you sure the server is running? rubenwardy: You can use the following command to check: rubenwardy: !up rubenwardy.com 30001 MinetestBot: rubenwardy.com:30001 is up (92ms) (IPv6) rubenwardy: I can't wait to adopt a cat BruceMustache: : When I put a new player name its ask me to register it BruceMustache: So I think the server is running rubenwardy: right, how long does it take to time out? rubenwardy: Like, does it load media first? BruceMustache: The !up command isn't working sfan5: it's not? Emerald2: Type it in here. BruceMustache: https://0bin.net/paste/0kzknMZQsv7hlvMn#SHdoGcps-DDlwpNWc8VpLr3Gus+JeCCaEFmzTevr0ge Emerald2: It's not a terminal command. It's a command of MinetestBot in here. rubenwardy: !up rubenwardy.com 30001 rubenwardy: rubenwardy.com:30001 is up (92ms) (IPv6) rubenwardy: see how responded BruceMustache: !up rubenwardy.com:30001 MinetestBot: rubenwardy.com:30001 is up (164ms) (IPv6) BruceMustache: Ok BruceMustache: !up 179.181.194.174:30000 MinetestBot: 179.181.194.174:30000 is up (212ms) BruceMustache: It's up BruceMustache: This is a video https://vimeo.com/user119376123/review/437493490/28d4e1a7b6 Emerald2: I got in. BruceMustache: Nice BruceMustache: But here still having timeout BruceMustache: This server is on this computer BruceMustache: I can enter with 0.0.0.0 BruceMustache: But others computers in my LAN can't use the public IP just the local Emerald2: Yeah one of these guys can explain why better than I can why that is. sfan5: firewall? BruceMustache: My firewall is off Emerald2: Isn't it normal to not be able to connect to the external IP from within the network tho? sfan5: depends on the port forwarding settings Emerald2: btw that link doesn't work BruceMustache: data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAA5MAAAHKCAYAAACe8R+fAAAgAElEQVR4nOy9e1QUZ7rv3+fnmt1jEpkhhkQBL4gXFN0KaiLGBDRE0EGRZMA4ipJtZDYGk0wkgRA1QQd2e2HYREMgGHAkYKZHJASMKAw9grYiF7GbcLHBwGZvdJ1zFvI7nnX2Xq7fOt/fH91VvFVdVd1IQ4M+tdZnKXWvt6ugPv287/OoVCoViKFxYP9+tLe1YUNYmNPPxVGsX7cO7W1t0Gg0Tj8XgiAIOSZMmDCq/MMvfuEwfqlWD5mJEycOiaefekqWZ55+xiaTJk0aEr9ycZHl17/6tSyurq5DYvKzz8ry3OTJkjz/nJtdvPD884pMfWGKTTymTrWJp7uHJNM8PK2Y7jlNkhnTpsviNWOGXcya6SWJ96xZdjHHe7Ykc BruceMustache: 2fPkcRnzlybzJ/nI8sCn/kCFs5fIMki34WKLF64SMCSRYtt4r94iRVLl/hZsczP34rlS5fK8tKy5bKsWP6iFStfXCHLyysCZFkVsNKKV1e+bEXgy69IEvTKq3axJjDILoKD1iiyds1rdhHy2uuShAYLWRe8lmf96yHSrA3l+Y0MYaHrH4mN68MeiU2/2WCTiLCNj8wUdw+HonL2i8F4JCcnBwCwPTra6efiKLZs2QIAOFNU5PRzIQiCkINkkmSSZJJkkmSSZJJkkmRyXHPixAkAwJYtW0b8pWm0romTyby8PKe3L0EQhBwkkySTJJMkkySTJJMkkyST45rRkMkTJ06gpaUFawKDRuWaSCYJghgPkEySTJJMkkySTJJMkkySTDoM7g/BaB5zpGVywoQJuHv3LgDgYErKqFwTySRBEOMBkkmSSZJJkkmSSZJJkkmSSYew BruceMustache: yHchjEYjQkJCRvW4oxGZ3B4djby8PHiaP6QRh2SSIIjxAMkkySTJJMkkySTJJMkkyaRD0Gq1AIBVAStH9bijNWZyNCGZJAhiPEAySTJJMkkySTJJMkkySTLpEEpLSwEAEZs28b/Mn37qKav1Jk2aBP/FS/DSsuWYMW26zf1OnDgRi3wXYsXyFzF/ng8mTBAmwhHL5MSJE7Fk0WK8tGw5PKZOtdrf0089BY+pUzFx4kR+3gKf+Vix/EV4z5oleQ6urq7wmDoVv1SrZV+ouH0s8l0ou55KpYLH1Kn8L7CpL0yRXMeWTE6aNAlLl/gpnvM//OIX8Jg6Fc9NnszPmz/PR/aYBEEQQ4VkkmSSZJJkkmSSZJJkkmRy2C8T7+3Zg4cPH0I8xcXFCdaNi4vjxx8CwMOHD3HixAm4urpK7js2Nhadpk7BPm/evIm3Y2LwD7/4BVS rubenwardy: uh oh BruceMustache: qQZmMjIxESEgIenp6+HUHBgbwUUKCYJ/v7dmDgYEBRGzahGV+/qipqRGcT2ZmpkA0VSoViouLMTAwgODgYKtz3LJlCwwGg+AcO02deG/PHv4cVSrzeNL09HRBOz18+BDHjh6zGmfKyWRBQYFkW7NtCADFxcVY5LtQsO7LKwIwMDAArVaLOd6z8X3J9wCADz74wOn3DEEQjwckkySTJJMkkySTJJMkkySTw8J71ixotVpecPR6Pb4v+R5lP5Rh/bp1/Hqc9HWaOnHs6DFoNBo0NDTw2zzz9DP8uhMnTuTl5+7du8jJycGxo8dQXFyMhw8form52UomOem8eKECaampyMvLk5TajxIS+GM+fPgQjY2N0Gg0yMzMxMDAAADrRDsXL14EAKvxoFyNywcPHiAvLw/Hjh7DmaIiPHjwAB3t7fw5TvPwxK1btwAAumod0lJTkZ BruceMustache: aayous0WgUCKWUTP5SrUZxcTEAoKurC8eOHsO+ffv4eQMDAwh8+RV+/cCXXwEA9PT08Nd18+ZNbAgLc/o9QxDE4wHJJMkkySTJJMkkySTJJMmkQzhTVARAesxkcHAwL3BsFPKXajXfPfbtmBh+fnJyMgCg4scLVlG7+fN8BFE4TiZ7enqsROnDDz/kBU48j4vSsd1mt0dHAwBaf/pJML+8rNxKJjdHRQEAGhsbMWuml+C4M6ZNF5wjN540IyPDqm046WW7tErJZFxcHN+GbNdVdlmnqRO//tWvoVKpsCpgJX+dBQUFWL50qdPvEYIgHi9IJkkmSSZJJkkmSSZJJkkmHQInTMFBa2SXSdVpnOM9GwBwpqgIKpU5Knn37l08ePBAcsyjGE4mWRnlWOAznxdNLkrIyaTUeMT583z4aCgnZSqVtUz+Uq1Gp6kTDx8+tClpX BruceMustache: jNm4OHDh+jp6bHqPqtSqTD52Wf5rrlzZ8+BSmUtkxMmTMDNmzcBACuWvyh5HC7KGRkZCZVqUCbbWtucfm8QQpYvXYrExERoNBpUVlaiq6vL/OxIdKN+kqF2GvuQTJJMkkySTJJMkkySTJJMOgQ5mXzm6Wd4Wfq+5HsUFBSgoKAAeXl5yMvL47dramqCSmUuMSKOJiqhlM2Vk0MpmUxPT7daf9ZMLzx8+BB3794VRFDFMsntt6amxub5bQgLAwBotVrZdbjoJNctWCyTC+cv4CWX7Q7M8nZMDAAgMzMTKtWgTDY0NDj93iCEcHIknuTGDj+pcO3U399P7TRGIZkkmSSZJJkkmTQTFvIqMUTWBa8imSSZHEQu+vjc5Mn8y2BPTw/u3r3L/8v9v72tjZetoFdeBQCUl5XbdVx7ZZLLsMrJ5LGjx6zW95oxw67IpP/iJXaf BruceMustache: I9d1VpxMhyUzM1MQVRTL5MsrAgBYd79lCQkJAQDk5ORApSKZHA+wQllZWemUc0hMTOTPITEx0eltYqud6H4eW4yUND7/nBtCQkKQlJSEuLg4kkmSSZJJkkmSyceMdcGrsPfd7SSTJJODcGMmg155VTD/l2o1urq68PDhQyycv0D2DzsnSd6zZgEAbt26ZddxHzUyKSWT9kYmOensaG+XlTsOTo4vXqiQXafshzJB24ll0tPdAw8ePMCDBw8w+dlnJfdxYP9+AIPJg0gmxz5sxM1ZIieenN0mY7WdHhXvWbOQmJioSGRkpGyJn7GOoyUyLi7OKhKt1WrHpUyuClgJXbUOqwJWysrke3v24MD+/TbZEBaGRb4LhyST7+3Zg7y8POiqdTwHU1KwZNFi/PpXv0ZGRgYyMjJ4mVwTGISDKSmKkEySTJJM2pZJR8vBeKG7u9t BruceMustache: ujEYj9r67nWSSZFKInEyqVIORN3GWVLmXk8bGRgDA5qgom+s7IzI5YcIEPsNrUlKS4vm5urri7t27ePjwIebP87FavmL5i7zAcol1pBLwcImKYmNjrfYxadIkvisxN6aSZHIQLmvwWEpCxCWl4iZnnRs3DhEwZwl2druIWb506Zhop0fFe9YsPuuzrSknJ2fcdeF1tEzOnT0HISEhgmh0UlLSuJNJj6lT+WdrQ1iYokyymcdtTU1NTdgeHa0okzOmTefH2APA/fv3oavW4f79+/w87u8FK5MRmzbhwP79gvJa3PaZmZkkkySTJJMkkw6RSaPRiC+//NIhMnnhfBnyT+aOGZnc/rutOLj/AMnko5KdnQ3APGZvmoenIII2f54PX57iwP79WOAzH89NnowXnn8ei3wXYnNUlGAsYMSmTQDMdRjf27MHs2Z6YfKzz8J71i BruceMustache: zExcXhvT17+HXtkcmuri6HRiZVKhWWLvHja0Ye2L8fc2fPweRnn4XXjBnYHh0tqG/5wQcfADBHW19eEcC/zKwKWIn2tjYAwgRCUjLJRTgfPHiAyMhITJo0CRMmTMD8eT68aJ4pKuIjpSSTZrhunGNNlDQaDf+y1t/f77TzYCNnYzE6NlbaaSSug2t7dlIaWz0WGalurtwXioA5Mdl4k0muZBMAu7q5sqJ3YP9+fv4i34XYHh1tJZx5eXmyMsmK5IH9+wXdXA+mpAj283ZMjFU3V+7vFTetCQzC5GefHVY314KCAuiqdaipqbH6V47MzEy88PzzCA4OVlyvpqYGaampSNibgPnzfOySyc1RUbL7Wr9unaRMLvJdiLi4OHyVlcXXlk5LTVWUySWLFuOrrCz+/WdgYABfZWVhyaLFijKZnJwskPqamhpEhG10mEy+HRODi BruceMustache: h8v8PsfGBhAbm4uXlq2nGSSZHLYMnnv3l1Fvvzyy8dWJv/l4CH8UHKOZPJRCQ5aI/gD1NXVhaefeopfvn7dOr4WJWAWRU7GAAhKaahUZgF78OCBYH1u6unp4ffN/ZHdHh1tdU5c4pr+/n5eJpOSkgAAJ06csFqf62L74MEDgUzqqnUAYFV6ZHNUlKBLFnuOd+/eFVx/RkaG4PzZPxTic+HGWRYXFwvmvx0Tw7dJf3+/IKp08eJFQTSVk8+O9nan3xtOuyeZ6B83lnSswEVLx+K5jSUel3ZiZVIsjOLI5UhJPXcOjtznSIjk3Nlz+Lbo6uoadwl49u3bJ/g8bcnkNA9PwfqBL78iOWZye3S0lXSKZZL72wGYk9iJx0z+ysVFIJReM2ZYyST7t+r7ku+HPWZymZ8/v7/79++jtLQUB1NSBH8DCwoKcDAlBQUFBfw8Tibn BruceMustache: zp6D2NhYK7k6mJKCtNRUvoYzYJaijxISbMokexx2GhgYkI1MchnT2Wn9unWKMslJp3j6KitLVia5Xl5GoxHbo6P5z3RgYABrAoOGLZPi+5Od9Ho9yeQIyOShQwfxH73d6Pm5Ez0/d6LFcBNffJGJmV6zhiwK4Zs2YbGf34gJ4bp166GrrkJV5UX845Il41om39gQjjMFBWhubMDNxhuovHgBb2+PMQti2EZ8++dTaDXeQuON6zj0+efo+/cexGyNxsb1YUj44A+4dvUKmhvr0VRfhy/+9CdeHG+3/4SPP/yQ/7no9J/xl8Jv8fHevejsaMfPXbdxpUZHMvmobI+Oxvcl30NXrcOZoiKB3KhU5rF/HyUkoLi4GLpqHS5evIi8vDzExsZaratSmcuGHExJQXlZOWpqalBcXIyPEhIEL1tbtmxBXl6eZMmMqS9MQW5uLtJ rubenwardy: ssometimes you need to use a LAN IP rather than the public, as port forwarding would only work from the outside BruceMustache: SU/mIXXBwMPLy8vhkNyzPTZ6MnJwcpKenC0SQ64okFl7umpKTk1FaWoqamhp8X/I9H30Vj6dcExiE3NxcfvxKTk6OZLmUl5YtR15enmS5k/nzfKDRaHDx4kXo9XqcKSrCli1brI41x3s2cnNzsW/fPqffF85AHPGR+rydBfelBTdJdV0mHq92YqVYfB3iLs8jUfqEO4ajeyqMhExydXMB4OiRI+NKJtn6vsDgl6pKMskK4P379xUT8HBj47lp8cJFssszMjIkE/Bwwzl6enr4+awospHNDz74YNgyyfUGKi0txdzZc/jurOw1s91cuWExsbGxgm6vXA8cbhnb5TUyMpKP/gFQFEouoV1BQQHSUlMFfPzxxza7uXKCODAwoNjNlfviWqPR8BFKdpKSSfZLp4iwjXx3V04wzxQVDUsmg4PWYGBgAAMDAzh29Bje27NHEK BruceMustache: EEgPf27CGZHAGZ/OqrL/mfF/7jYvz4YxlSUw8NWRS+O1OI10NCRkQkp3p4YteuXZg+0wsLFi7Cli1bxrVMnszJwWVdNd7YEI6w0PU49c1J1F7WYeP6MBz6/HO0GJuxJTIKm8I2olj7F9zr68WOrduwJTIKdzo78GlSEjauD8Pb26LR2dGOpIQERZmMCNuI/NyvKTJJEOMdjUYjiNhyU0NDAyorK2XH3EVGRkKr1Uom/7A1Ti84OBg5OTlWx9VqtZJRptjYWMF6XBScG1/HnUN/f79APNguqZWVlbygsElpYmNjBedRWVkpiLK7uroiMjISiYmJyMnJEZTeULpGV1dX/rjs1NXVpZgUx9XVFbGxsbLbKY0RlGsnRx0nODhYsY5lYmIi3zYajeaR70mxFIvvicjISMFyR8vk8qVL+etwdAKjkZBJLjM4YB5aMF5kkh0ny BruceMustache: 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BruceMustache: T7HjJmzdvOqQ0yP3793EwJUUy+ggACXsTBMtKS0tRWloqEEk2el9TUyObeIfLjA6Yh4+IRXKBz3w+MldeVo6PP/54SDLJRs0TExOHnICHk0mDwWAlk2w32qBXXpWUSQAjkoCHvW9IJkdHJrdt24aqSxWY4u6B48cz+eWz587Djet6vPnmm5ji7oG21hZoNBpM9fDEFHcPXK39Ox+ZlJNJd89paDHcxG9/+1v++P/+bz9jsZ+fokympx/FN9/kwt1zGnzmz0dTQx0CVwdh/vwF6GhrwazZczDF3QOxsbvw3vt7FGVSblhKTk7OqMmkqaMNCX/4w2C3142bcK+vF7Fv78SP5WXIzc7mhfGt30bxMplx9Chq/l4tkMlT35xE2ffnSCYJ4klBHAmSi8awAtfV1SUQTXHXQ/G2bLRHfAxxRE28rXg7dn2tVmslF+LtxYLg6u BruceMustache: rKy29/f7+kQEhdvz3rsFLV0NDAR9XYY0ptL044IxYY9gV6OOfniOOI631KZV8dTmIc9vMURzjF94pSBDQ4OFhwPWz7iyPQ4iy44knqfhbLN/t/OaFMSkoSPEPs/7nppWXLraSQG1LATWzCHbbNpWQyJCREsH9228rKSrzw/PO8REqVGikuLsbUF6YIpExXrRuWTHLj0JqampCens7vd9++fYq1JgNffkVwbtM8PG3KpLirK7tsxrTpgsglYI5A2ltn8vuS7/ntMjIyRqzOZHNzM3+c5UuX2szmyo7zPJiSIiuTaamp/Hq3bt2ykkl2OTcZbt3CwvkL7JJJdqzlqoCVQ5JJtpvr9uhogUyyUUmDwWCVzZUVTXb+msAgbI+OFkjk8qVLsT06GsFBax5JJg/s308yOcIyuWixuZvrvn3mCGRzUyNWr17DL//jHw/i6NEjv BruceMustache: EyuDR3s1mqPTK5c+TI62lr4+fPmz8e9vl6bMmm81YSQdaH8Mo1Gg88//xwzvWbhdvtP2LNnD3zmz5eVGHFkUiyUOTk5oxuZvHFdEJncsXUb7vX1IuqN3+LcX7UoPP1nXhh//04sL5Of79+PZlFkslj7F3z751PY9JsNaP/JiMS9CbxMntP+hWSSIB43xC/oUt1U2Zft/v5+q2gQ+6Irjkx6z5oleEEVj4FjJ3EGUrGksuLH7Yc9tlQGU/aln42ucdE3e8Ya2lOahBU1cWRPSVjFy6SOz+5bKvIr7vopdX6OOI7482KlXGmc41Bg7xXuOriu0eykFP1k19VqtfxnIf4iglvf1dUVwcHBguuvrKxEcHCwlXCz+8jJyeHFkT2mVDSTXc6V73hu8mTB9UpFF19atpxfp7GxkY9ccmPMuCkuLs5q29zcXH55cXExL45sxKi4 rubenwardy: it must almost be done.... BruceMustache: uJiXyfnzfBASEsInUQOA5ORkwX6A4ckkN07y/v37WBWwUpDgREkmn3n6GYEYNjU1CUTyUWTyVy4uCHrlVSuhvHnzJp9sR0km2e0iNm0aEZlkf/f29PTYVRqEHS8ZGvy6bImQzVFRguuW6uIqNdXU1Nglk2xk0d7SIBvCwngZ7OnpEYgkJ5NcNnzA/IWSWCaNRiO/fHt0NPR6vdVnxckkO3Z0e3S0XTLJPQ8DAwN4adlykskRTsBjaG7EsWNHMG3GTExx90DPz53w8/Pn1//44wR8800uL5MvrlgxJJkMWReK+jq9UPTumGzK5M93OnHrZiOaGm+gqfEGWgw38ac/HcMUdw+sWfMaTp8+BVNHK0pLzgnOSU4mWaHkRHI0ZfLrr77CZd3fELFhI8JC16PgVD50VZXYuD4MR/7lX2C42YioN36LTWEb8dfvzvAy+VZkJO6 BruceMustache: YOpD88cfYuD4MO6N3oMvUjoQPPsCm32zAtSs1+NPRo9j0mw3YFvUW2loMvEyezP4KlRcvkEwSxHiHjQRJyZirq6vghVfp5RqwjmixkiEVsWKFRCwh7Ms9tw4glBX23MT7d3V1ldyelT2xZEmN27RVcsOWzLHL2aiYOCImF9ETn6N4uZLMO/I44uvk2oN7yeC6kj7qvSiWdqnJ1rhTti2khJO9H6W68nKTlBCz97p4OfulhfjzZ88pNjZWIHzibuNKIvnc5MmC5ewk7h7LCmBlZaVVV1Y2QslGJ8XLuP2w844dPfZIMsmOk3xvzx6rsiDv7dmjKJOs5LIlQZRkko18AtYy+ShCydWZ5Kb79+/LiuRwZZJLyAOYM7baI5PseSnVl7Qlk2xpEDYLLGDOzKokk+vXrePX/SorS1EmA19+BWeKiqxqdm4IC5OsM8mutyEszE admicos: oof what happened here BruceMustache: om2Wl7dDQ/9pGbjh45IimTR48csSmTLy1bzm9z7OgxyuY6St1cWZqa6hG0ejX/c2rqIRw5cpiXyeUvvSQpk3/Vfoe3336bX3bxwo/YEbMDL7/yClpbjfz8OfN8+Mjka8HBqLs2KJoRERG8TNbX6RG4OkhRVKbP9MK//Esq/qr9zi6Z5IRyJMdM3v2Pf0Pfv/cIeGPjJryxIRyFp/+Mm4030NzYgIofy7Bj6zZsXB+GNzZuwrm/atHaYsC1q1eQcuAA7vX1YvvWrZZsrh/g2pVaPpvrMY2Gj0QmJXyE5sYG/P1vVSg9V4zvCgrwXWEhIsI24oP4eHR2tKOj1UgySRDjGXaS6rfPihS7XGqMma1uiUMt48C++HMTKxJiuRG/4MvJD3se9oz3FI8xHOpyOcRjEOXaRxyVG+rxHXUcsdyLP4/hIo7uskl97DkW+3lLRdDFb BruceMustache: SH+YoQ9lriNWCEXy7jSOE82gqjRaKyih+z5sKLJRi37+/utZJFNoNLY2ChYxtXe5bYVy+I//OIXguOGhIQIxkuy2wLm6OUv1WoUFxfz3V4fRSY5cczLy+PnsYK4ISwMEydOlJRJT3cPwX3HlgRRkkl2/7pqnaRMckIplhk5obS3JIgjZJKNMr4dE4MXnn9eUSbZe7GgoEBRJsW/n5XKgyzwmS8QyrTUVEWZZLvIbtmyRVEmFy9chLi4OD4LKzcNDAwg6JVXBTLJlfHilnNjKDmRZLP96vV6fn5ycjI//8fz53mZjNi0iZdDe2SSS77DlQUhmRx9mczMyMCXXx7HFHdzl9TG+uvYEB4uKZN/r/4bP57yq6++xOeff4Yp7h5YuvxF/HynEztidmD6TC/cbv8JYRs2YIq7Bz7//DN+zORiPz/83HUbM2d5Y4q7ebwmJ5NH BruceMustache: jx7B8eOZmOLuAc/pM3D06BG8FhyM10NCUFhYgBleXpji7oHY38fir3+xXyZHMgHPULCqHxm2kf8/l5znzU1vDKvO5KPwxMrkIt+FiNKUYcefL2DHny8gpqACMQUV/M87ckqwI6fEvI7cv59kK3J0T/qwKHj3M0XO//59RX48tFuR0r/8XpFLZTsUsbV9ZmGCItEnPh4WUmVOHgdsyZg4shcZGYnlS5dCo9EIXry7uroku/Y9qmSpVNZjOQHrSJNYfpS637LXIHcMqTF44nXECVweVZjtjRaK21EcGRXvR3x+jjqOeLnU5yG+d7huolJItZPUuFL2M7R1D9kz5pNdh71n2aioVOIfVr64c5/87LNWAsxeF9vFu7+/3yqyOGHCBMH5sMvZKCnXLZaFTTIiLgnC7jM5OVkyyQ67DiuTbBdYwPxs2yuPSjLJjpP0mDqVn88 BruceMustache: m4NkQFiYbmVQqCSInk9M9pwmuRZzNlZXJX7m4YMa06YJSH9w2UjJpT0kQR8gkGzEVRyWlZFKcrEdJJlnhq6mpUZRJT3cPwe86WzJZXlYOwCx8XLdXe7u5stFCtsak14wZgvvzx/PnrWSSfS6ys7P5+Wz9Tr1eLxg3yUms1LhJViSPHT0GAGhpacFLy5aTTDpJJufM80F+/je4pr+Cq1dr8PHHCfwysUx+9tl+/Nx1G3/4wx+w6tVXcaVGhx++L0H2V1koKvoWMTExmOLugR0xO9DUeAO1l3WIj4+HqaOVrxt57NgR1F7W4a/a7/DRR3txXX8VU9w9MGv2HHz9dQ4ablxDw41ryPzXf4XHtOlw95yGY8eOoKmpHg03rqHix/NY+fKqcS2TH+55H7fbfuIjlbnZ2biur7USSZLJEcJv6z/hUOd/KXLw2n9X5NB3txQpy7 BruceMustache: 6uzBc6XDtRiWsnKtHyRangX+7/P2eeVeQ/M3IU+a+yE4qgW6PIf91PA/7PIVn+x/84iv/o/0qRKz/no+7f8iSp6s7HQeMpZfRnsL/mNA7qzwj+v7/mNPbXnIbf1n+yqk853hFHmsQyJo48slNXVxefCVRq37YkxxZiSRNHFMViICVJYlZA2tsAACAASURBVPkRy6L4+uwZa6jUNXIodQntre0pllnxddo6P0cdR7xc6vNQ+vzEk1j25EqCiKONcscTfzEiFZUUH4P9vNlnQXyfsPdyZWUlIiMjBWVpuG3EiXekxkmKu7FyU0NDg+T8rq4uyYQ87LFXLH9RMioJmAVELJI+c+YK1ln54gp+mXh85Pp164ZdGoSrVWhr8pg6VVYmlUqCyMmkOFtr0Cuv8uMoxXUlOZYsWmzV5VUcnRSXBPFfvGREZFKuJIiSTLLR1RXLX BruceMustache: 1SUSTbSKJXNVSyTC3zm8+vbkkluKi8rH5JMes2YIYjm19TUYNZML36Z+DkVyyQ7XvK9PXsE3V/ZtuFEck1gEABzeRGlBDzclyEDAwNYu+Y1gWSSTDpWJp2Nu+c0/EdvNx+NHCnGk0xuXB+Gr7/KQqvxFn4y3sJlXTV+v3MXyeRI89zMmdjx5wvDkkh7RDIn9xrKvtDZJZJyjIZM/u8rx2wKpZJM4v8csimTdf+WpyiUl0y5NoWSE0dOKFn215xG9ImP8dzMmU6/vxyFONuleLlUKQ+5qJIYW5JjC3GWVrF8iGVVHFUVL5fq9ii+PqnzEGcBFS8XC4W91yfuempvO4qv09b5Oeo49ma9lfv8xJNY3Fn5FH8WbBvLybA46Y6taxSLKduO4mNIfanS398PrVaLpKQkyeytk599VrD+5GeftZJCOdm0JaHsy7Y4aQ8rg1qt BruceMustache: VjIqyXb56+/vFyxj2zo3N3fYdSanvjCF/z1z7Ogx7Nu3TwA7KWVyVSoJIiWT0zw8BfLAdnHVVeugq9ZJyuSvXFwQEbZRcF4RmzYJZJItCdLT06MoksORSTbKKC4XIiWT7JcQzc3Nsol3pr4wBStfXCG4Rrk6k6xMsl2NuTIhUjIpLgkyVJlcsmgxv31NTY1gGSuT26OjBTK5dImf4JqW+fkLZFKv1/PLOJnU6/UYGBjA8qVLZWWSGx8rVXOSZPLxkMnq6kq8++67mOLugXfeeQe1l3UjfszxJpP2QjLpIPy2/pNZBEdDJG1EJa+dqET91zpZrp2oxM/ZPygzSjLpiOhk3b/l4ca/fytLZaeN6KQlQqlE8vmTeGVNkNPvs+FiTxdPcRmIoezfVjIXluDgYCvRY19qpY4tjqqKBdeWHIm78Epdv3gdKYGytZxtb1agxKU technomancy: it's a base64-encoded mp3; if you play it backwards it summons the devil admicos: and if you play it forwards it's just an annoying song BruceMustache: ibn1uTGVXCIdbj7XvZUlLi5OcBxWGLnPMTc3l49IigkJCUFubi6/j9zcXKturSwhISFITk5GcnKyVRfXocgkt4/k5GRB1laxTCrx9FNP4b09ewTzDuzfL8t7e/YoCiSLrlrHj6EMeuVVXhI58vLy8N6ePYJyIJxMHkxJ4f+1l1kzvYYsk3JIyWTC3gQcTElBWmqq4r+RkZGypUJYmVzgMx8nTpzgZbTshzKraKScTMoh1801Li4O5WXl/LHOFBUhKSlJUiJZmeS6tf54/jz0ej1qampw9MgRWYnkiAjbCL1ebyWSrExuj47G0SNHeI4dPWbF2zExJJMkkySTTpDJgykpJJNjVSZHLTI5ijJJkUmCIMYaUtI3ksiJ46MwnDqT9qJUGkRunKRSnUlbKCXgYbu2irFVCsRRpUHsQVxnUoxSRlcpmbRVGkROJsV1JqUYSjZ rubenwardy: hopefully he knows he can rejoin... BruceMust: 8Zc9oW/TvN4P37cYmg2Ik5dQTyXxEhO6GIuoPp6PbSNTcLSJ0pjJiMKkdEoGjOpZcZMRljGTCbYOLbMc7G+xISK6ltoECTjkbh/pfYbUQJtZz0joaegaWxHhuVLG/dP9DD2DMqkj+YWbnNfYoSdQvxFE3r4CC3JJEEQBPH4YbOb6/BQY3ZIEvLL9Oi404t7fSZ01JUiO3ktZkuMj1R7rsAuTQGq6lrQ3deL7rZG1J5NR7ylOyy7XzmZVKkW4NNLw5FJ+Wyu9/oacdif2UbtjdDkkzjPnG9VYRq2+7sI9+2bhFrxvu60oL7sJD4NXyCdxEflAt/wJGSX6WBoM/Ftl58SCX9x5JTqTI4JnCuTmZgUmoVVmisoNVjqTLa1QntKy2QpzcSk0GysP9VkztDZ1i7KgDpMmQzNRkThLRjb2nG1tg57NZeFGTwjCpFS3Yqr15ug BruceMust: Lb+M+FNNonFy4m6uuXirxJLxs7YOKQmFiK82wVhbzke4Fh+4goq2btzr68LVEmGdRHOmVzYjqzCb6/rcely1ZN28Wq3DeqarYkRhExos3Tsbruuxa5ed3VwtTN5Vhat9vbxMcpE1qzIUXJIjJko4KmMmI05hR2ETrrZ1mbvcdrajooTN7JtpzuZabkSDoR3GtnZUaIsH7yVZofsGe6/3Wo/ftcrmehp7L7bjdls7rtZeQfypJmGX5YjT2Msd29CKgi8KB9tjSDJpqTnZZ10mxC6ZDLUkkuo0IsUSVfY5pEe1wYiK6nqc/OICThrYBDzfIeO6CUZDK6ov6hCxuwQFbV2WL2xIJgmCIIjHD5sy+cc//tHpL+kEMR5wvkyOMXZfRgOTQXWkmJxwRSg6BEEQBEEQxKgwwpFJgnhyeOJlMqoE2rYmxMccx6TQLLxWaB4Hp1w BruceMust: U3hEcx+L0Jj5rJ0EQBEEQBDE6UGSSIBzEEy+TXMF2rntodRXTdXTkjvla+hUUVOuxI2akj0UQBEEQBEGwUGSSIBwEySRBEARBEATxJEEySRAOgmSSIAiCIAiCeJIgmSQIB0EySRAEQRAEQTxJkEwShIMgmSQIgiAIgiCeJCgBD0E4iOHK5HC2JwiCIAiCIIjRZkQik/nZ1jj7RZ8gRpqReBAJgiAIgiAIYqzi8MhkfrYKAwMDwH/dtJAP/Fc+CeU4wSXgM1Q163FOsxGzXbyxK2M3fMfAeY0HRuJBJAiCIAiCIIixikMjk/nZKty8HiOLVMSSJHMsocbqlHSEu7nBP/oEqpobce6dBWPgvMYHI/EgEgRBEARBEMRYxaGRyfxsFRORtId83Lwe43QJIAhHMBIPIkEQBEEQBEGMVRwemWS7ttrkuv0yOS1oNzLP6mC4Y8 BruceMust: K9PhMMNVpkvxsIN8F6blgZnYaimkZ03OnFvTstqC87iYPh3lDz6/jhcHMvui8lwVctPMZKjR61yZZInPduVPX14p4VJhSFq6FSb0T+HT0O+jP7cFmAzSknUVXXgu4+meP7f4b6OycRrhZfox8O1pmQH6KGSqWCW5TW6rjddxpRezYNm33V1u3zTik62hpRFOX26O0nOv/utkZUFaZhu7+L4DwPN0u1Sy/u9RVgs4t5PRf/nebjNTfC0NaCjmYdzmkiMdvquh8fRuJBJAiCIAiCIIixyghFJpUFkv3XHpmcFlUAwx0dMqP8ME2tgkrlgmkB25BdZ0J9RiBcLCIZmqVHd80JbA/wNM9Tu8E3JAnnmk2oSvazCJ0fDtc1or6uBVXvCrtwWsnkHS22u8mcl1gmXVbgYI0JhsLdWO3tYj6W2g2+4Wk439YyKHlDkMnumiThe rubenwardy: oh great sfan5: !ban *@179.181.194.174 rubenwardy: I left it a while because I hoped it would stop sfan5: *shrug* rubenwardy: oh IRC Emerald2: oof technomancy: better than slack; slack doesn't even have /ignore Emerald2: Think the spam is finished by now? XD Seirdy: O SHIT 5.3.0! Seirdy: waiting till the flatpak is out Seirdy: iirc, wasn't there once an unstable minetest in flathub-beta? Seirdy: any mod issues with 5.3.0? Lone_Wolf: Maybe for the ones that don't use the new entity moveresult (Meaning they'll possibly be laggier than they should be) SoylentCow: awesome news sfan5 :D Emerald2: Wow nice netsplit. XD Noclip: Are floatlands still experimental (as shown in the client)? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Bump animation frame count from u8 to u16 (#10054) 13d80def5 https://git.io/JJmdk (152020-07-10T10:12:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove std::shared_ptr use in TileLayer (#10090) 13c6422e0 https://git.io/JJmdI (152020-07-10T10:11:44Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspec: Make dropdowns optionally return event based on index, not … 13b1ff04e https://git.io/JJmdL (152020-07-10T10:11:26Z) silwol: It's been a while since I operated a minetest server, but now I'm installing one for my kids once again. It's debian testing. Last time I installed mods by cloning the git repos into the required paths. Now that the client UI has integration with the contentdb, is there already command-line tooling to integrate this when operating the server? silwol: oh, and congrats on the 5.3.0 release btw :-) sfan5: command line tooling is on the TODO list silwol: ok, so I'll keep on cloning repos like I used to. silwol: at least for now. silwol: is there any documentation about what is planned in terms of tooling? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7358 silwol: that looks exactly like what I would love to have. sadly (at least for me) minetest has a strong affinity to cpp, if it was rust I would be happy to help out with this, as I already have enough trouble with cpp at work ;-) hisforever: Hi I'm setting up the tunnel maker /grant <player> tunneling this statment is bot working, I'm pasting the grant command in. it is saying unknown player. how can I correct this? swift110: the flatpak for minetest hasnt been updated yet Krock: hisforever: don't put < or > begui: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/07/open-source-voxel-game-engine-minetest-has-a-new-release begui: awesome everybody Krock: that was quick rubenwardy: yay Krock: tbh the focus should be largely on Android, which has seen a complete rework rubenwardy: gamingonlinux is largely desktop focused Krock: fair enough hisforever: thanks Krock cheapie: Hmm, Minetest runs kinda slow when using software rendering on an emulated CPU. Imagine that. cheapie: But... even though I gave up waiting after about 5 frames, the riscv64 Minetest package that Debian ships *does* seem to work. swift110: yay swift110: is the new version of minetest available for debian yet? swift110: also I would like it for android as well cheapie: Not yet, still on 5.2.0: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/minetest swift110: oh ok thanks Seirdy: minetest 5.3.0 has just been built for flathub and will be published soon Seirdy: successfull build: https://flathub.org/builds/#/builders/32/builds/23521 Seirdy: will be auto-published in 24 hours if not manually published. Andrey: hi Andrey: could anybody please find out in my code why vehicles don`t move properly? Andrey: if vehicle moves forward, it does with constant velocity and only after a while it immediately stops bdju: Is there a way to update all the mods I got from the contentdb at once? I see some have an update button next to them. I'm not even sure how to filter to just installed ones on the "browse online screen" so I can update them all that way Andrey: backward the vehicle will move very slow and only after you released the key it will accelerate normally Andrey: please help: https://github.com/Andrey2470T/adv_vehicles2 Andrey: maybe in 'on_step' function incorrect algorithm I use jonadab: Vehicles are just a lost cause in general. The engine really can't handle moving at faster than walking speed, other than by instantaneous teleportation. Even elevators are problematic. Wuzzy: anyone seen Tinbete (player from JT2)? Wuzzy: or Liukiller? Andrey: jonadab: but I think all problem is caused by impropriety of my algorithm, because e.g. advtrains or bike mods work much better than mine, despite of the engine issues availability jonadab: Andrey: Well, I haven't compared to your mod, but linux-forks has both advtrains and bikes, and I find it's best to be at least a couple hundred blocks away from any of them, for a smooth playing experience. rubenwardy: bdju: unforuntately, that didn't make it into 5.3.0. Update all will be in 5.4.0 though Wuzzy: Hello everyone! Wuzzy: VERY Soon there will be a soccer tournament on the JT2 server. Come join us! bdju: rubenwardy: okay, glad to hear that it will come eventually. thanks. SoylentCow: hi everyone i have a fun question: SoylentCow: is there a node property to make walking on it faster or slower? SoylentCow: also, anyone knows a good, non-crashy vehicles mod? being stable is way more important than anything else SoylentCow: lol jonadab Andrey i didn't even see that vehicle discussion when i asked my question SoylentCow: jonadab: carts seem to work okayish SoylentCow: also horses SoylentCow: but they don't move super-fast SoylentCow: and stamina mod running is very solid SoylentCow: all of this fastness increases the chance of hitting the loading wall, but it's still pretty stable and fun appguru: SoylentCow: there is not, but you could easily implement that yourself appguru: You could also use a liquid for slowing the player down Seirdy: might also help to have a postgresql world if you have memory to spare SoylentCow: celeron55: i am working on the wiki article SoylentCow: did 0.0.1 release include source code? SoylentCow: i am assuming it was always copylefted, but i figured, who knows... SoylentCow: i guess, what i am interested in is the history of release SoylentCow: the link to official release seems dead, but it would be very encyclopedic to point out the licensing terms at release celeron55: SoylentCow: for some time the initial releases were just windows and linux binaries celeron55: so, just freeware SoylentCow: oh interesting SoylentCow: when did it go gpl (lesser)? this would be real neat to reference :) xachman: Hey guys how do I respawn if im walking around dead? sfan5: that's not supposed to happen but try /killme xachman: yea /killme works xachman: thanks! mazes_80: sfan5: about commit 6d2a897e1bb9e6af31f3b2b5e8e28cb1cf4892f7 mazes_80: ERROR[Main]: ...../minetest_game/mods/creative/init.lua:35: attempt to call upvalue 'old_is_creative_enabled' (a nil value) mazes_80: I skipped error: 's/old_is_creative_enabled(name)/old_is_creative_enabled/', I didn't check further, that may not be the good fix, but game starts fedora117: How do I troubleshoot to get a basic node to show up? I have the code written but I don't see even a basic node showing up. fedora117: k fedora117: Hello? gry: fedora117: hi fedora117: hi gry: fedora117: please wait a bit, someone probably did something like this before, but may be asleep or away from computer NathanS21: What seems to be the issue Fedora117? fedora117: Whoa thanks for taking my question Nate. I'm having trouble getting a basic node to show up. I was renovating another person's mod, the submarine pack, but for some reason a basic node won't show up. I registered it but I don't see it when I search for it when I look through the crafting search box in creative mode. I actually tried following your tutorial "The first Mod | 2-1" and saw the problem after 7:07 fedora117: Also thanks for your videos, they're great. NathanS21: So you got it figured out then? fedora117: No it still doesn't show up. I have a basic init.lua at the root of the mod pack but nothing pops up. NathanS21: can you run /giveme mod:node Does that give you the item or an error? NathanS21: replacing mod:node with your mod name and node name, of course. fedora117: entering /giveme submarine:first yields cannont give an unknown item. However I do not see unknown item like in your video. NathanS21: unknown items were changed recently, so they might look different. fedora117: Also I'm on minetest 5.1.0 NathanS21: Ya, if you're getting an unknown the node should be existing I think. NathanS21: You should get an error for a node that doesn't exist. NathanS21: I'm using 5.2 so I'm not positive what 5.1 would do. fedora117: Yeah that's what I thought. Here's a pastebin for my code: https://pastebin.com/h5t35G0A NathanS21: That code seems fine, does the texture exist? fedora117: folder structure: fedora117: submarine/ fedora117: textures/ fedora117: boats/ fedora117: destroyer/ fedora117: submarine/ fedora117: first.png fedora117: screenshot.png fedora117: init.lua fedora117: mod.conf fedora117: description.txt fedora117: depends.txt fedora117: modpack.txt fedora117: well the texture is just the color blue. I don't see it anywhere in game. NathanS21: You shouldn't need a modpack.txt file, but I don't think that would be the problem. NathanS21: The texture should be in the textures folder, I'm assuming it already is. fedora117: yup there's a copy of first.png there. fedora117: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16282 NathanS21: What happens if you try and craft it? fedora117: that's the original pack fedora117: um i'll check fedora117: I think there was a conflict with another mod. I made another world, enabled this mod and now minetest is saying I don't have an init.lua in my textures/ folder. Which I didn't know I needed. NathanS21: You don't need that. NathanS21: I think it's the fault of the modpack.txt file. NathanS21: The textures folder should be in the same folder that the init.lua file is in. fedora117: You're gona laugh, that file is blank! NathanS21: init.lua should be in the parent folder of the entire mode NathanS21: Ya, modpack.txt should be blank, if you need it. NathanS21: That file just let's minetest know it's a modpack, rather than a single mod. NathanS21: I don't believe anything ever actually goes in that file. fedora117: Ok I deleted that modpack.txt, then I could enter the game but now when I'm in the new world the error text says it can't find the mods. fedora117: we're getting somewhere NathanS21: Parent directory NathanS21: textures/ NathanS21: fist.png NathanS21: sounds/ NathanS21: punch.ogg NathanS21: models/ NathanS21: init.lua NathanS21: So you should have submarine NathanS21: with the textures folder in there. NathanS21: first.png should be in the textures folder NathanS21: init.lua should just be in the submarine folder. NathanS21: along with mod.conf fedora117: Well it shows up now. Its the wrong color, but we have progress. It looks like 5.1 does want an init.lua at the toplevel directory because when I removed the file and placed it into the submarine folder I could not start the game. NathanS21: yes, init.lua always needs to be in the topmost folder fedora117: gotcha, thanks for your help Nate! NathanS21: If it's the wrong color Minetest probably just can't find the texture you want it to use. fedora117: Okay I changed the path that the init.lua searches for and it rendered the right color. NathanS21: Perfect. I'm heading out, good luck! fedora117: cool, thanks and take care! Emerald2: Wow Krock. What did bread ever do to deserve this? :P https://content.minetest.net/packages/Krock/stapled_bread/ rubenwardy: ContentDB now supports reviews! Head to your favourite (or most hated) content and review it. The better reviews a package receives, the higher it'll appear in the content list. https://content.minetest.net/ SoylentCow: celeron55: great interview for the wiki :) guzzi: Emerald, you the same emerald in nodecore? Warr1024: (formerly in nodecore) Warr1024: Also, I don't see how bread stapled to trees is a mod and not a core engine feature. guzzi: formerly? guzzi: come back! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Continue with 5.4.0-dev 132384c10 https://git.io/JJmzr (152020-07-09T20:04:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Bump version to 5.3.0 13057f0b8 https://git.io/JJmzo (152020-07-09T20:04:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Quick workaround for crashing destructor on Mingw32 1370df3d5 https://git.io/JJmzK (152020-07-09T20:01:46Z) sfan5: !op sfan5: !deop sfan5: just by the way: Minetest 5.3.0 has been released https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=25044 search_social: yay bebebeko: Hello folks! can any one help with increase range for pointed_thing ? as mentioned in wiki https://wiki.minetest.net/Pointing by default range is 4, in "creative mode" range is 10, how i can set pointing range up to 200 for example? sfan5: by changing the hand item sfan5: like e.g. this code does https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/creative/init.lua#L58 bebebeko: sfan5: thank you a lot bebebeko: @sfan5 I'm trying to create client mod 'spiderman' for minetest, he provides "fast movement" from current player position to pointed thing. minetest.override_item("", { range = 256 }) doesn't work, i don't know why... but looks like i found another way to do this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/client_lua_api.txt#L789 bebebeko: doesn't work means "range stil is 4 :(" bebebeko: as i can see in client mod documentation https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/client_lua_api.txt is there no way to call set_pos() for player object in client-side mod :( sad bebebeko: s bebebeko: done https://github.com/metacoma/minetest-mod-spiderman (video included) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Slovak) 135f3f806 https://git.io/JJqyH (152020-07-08T20:51:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04daretmavi -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Slovak) 13352529e https://git.io/JJqyQ (152020-07-08T20:51:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Galician) 133c17570 https://git.io/JJqy7 (152020-07-08T20:51:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Basque) 13b7129f6 https://git.io/JJqy5 (152020-07-08T20:51:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Serbian (cyrillic)) 133547c47 https://git.io/JJqyd (152020-07-08T20:51:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Dutch) 13ab175e2 https://git.io/JJqyb (152020-07-08T20:51:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix ContentDB menu icons not appearing on Windows 1321de17e https://git.io/JJq9m (152020-07-08T21:37:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Make util/bump_version.sh work again 13b4c2587 https://git.io/JJq9Y (152020-07-08T21:11:41Z) BruceMustache: What is the best way to update all minetest mods BruceMustache: ? gry: Hi Bruce, good question, thank you. I would also be interested. What minetest version are you using? search_social: git pull? Ingar: what are the memory requirements for a small minetest server? would a 4Gb machine suffice ? Ingar: (probably yes, since that's what my current VPS has) search_social: Ingar: define small search_social: you can run it in 200M search_social: we have a nice server with many mods and 6G map.sqlite and ~5 concurrent players average using 550M of ram right now Elouin: The problem is more the storage for the world data then the ram needed in my experience. Ingar: storage is less of an issue Ingar: and a 4G node should be more then enough then ItzNoah: ve-bananaland: players MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert "Verify database connection on interval (#9665)" 136e4d8de https://git.io/JJtaG (152020-07-07T16:50:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04TheTermos -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix player controls only being applied for the first move 13ebb721a https://git.io/JJtaQ (152020-07-07T17:09:23Z) scr267: FYI: looks like the magma sword can bypass protections and break soft nodes like dirt, wool and etc... scr267: I'll open an issue with the mod maintainer rubenwardy: If you have a magma sword above ground, does it become a lava sword? scr267: rubenwardy, Bwahahahaha ! scr267: You are part of the pedantics club? :) rubenwardy: probably scr267: ARrggg - the project was archived... can't open an issue... oh well, time to fork then :-/ scr267: pedantics club meeting is in progress in this channel: actually chat room, IRC chat room on Freenode, virtual meeting over the interweebs scr267: dang it, couldn't get the joke quite right... leo_rockway: so, if it wasn't funny technically it wasn't a joke. leo_rockway: MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build due to revert error 1342b0d61 https://git.io/JJt6m (152020-07-07T18:31:14Z) oil_boi: Yay trains https://youtu.be/PBOTcUjgI3A search_social: nice oi Seirdy: i wish mods like advtrains could use electric power from technic but i don't want to implement it myself...reeee Seirdy: you know i just might Seirdy: been a while since i did lua after all Quiark: lol that's the spirit Seirdy: not for a few weeks tho Seirdy: busy with another proj Seirdy: i want something to do with all these battery boxes besides power 100 quarries gry: whats a quarry Emerald2: Technic mod digging machine. Verticen: anyone know if b3d will 'honor' bone constraints when exported from blender? Ex: have a wheel bone that is animated, and another wheel bone that inherits its rotation so that both move at the same rate search_social: does anyone else use the adv_chat mod for discord bridge Flitzpiepe: hello everyone Flitzpiepe: Is there someone how is used to digiline? I'd like to know what's the max number of devices that I can connect to a digiwire. I'd like to connect 324 injectors all on the same channel. could this work? Clock: night all! arlekino: Hello! arlekino: I wish to ask you some questions about using Minetest for EaD purposes. sfan5: hi arlekino: What projects and teams are currently working on such applications? sfan5: you might find some people who have done that in the past by searching the forums rubenwardy: EaD? arlekino: Education at Distance arlekino: Non Presential Education arlekino: (I'm mostly interested in social, populational, biological and physical simulations exploration for practical learning) gry: Hello oil_boi: Hey gry gry: Greetings, oil_boi. Phase_: Quote of the day: Only poor people eat cold food Clock: I'll switch to debian see if it has the same issues oil_boi: Railcraft :D https://youtu.be/XpyOOOXIaR0 search_social: Hello, I normally use F5 to see the name of blocks. How can I see the name of "unknown_node" blocks? (To then do //r or other with them) cheapie: search_social: Normally I use //1 and //2 to select the node and then do '//luatransform minetest.chat_send_player("your-name-here",minetest.get_node(pos).name)' or some variant thereof... there are probably other methods too. search_social: thanks cheapie cheapie: Also I don't remember //r working to replace unknown nodes - you may have to use more //luatransform trickery if you want to replace them in bulk. search_social: thanks MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Jul-03 12:16 UTC can you please make a release of the 3d_armor (https://content.minetest.net/packages/stu/3d_armor/) and scifi_nodes (https://content.minetest.net/packages/D00Med/scifi_nodes/) mods on the contentdb, you can use the current date "2020-07-03" for the tag, thanks :) Wuzzy: !tell Stu tag "2020-07-03" doesn't exist. MinetestBot: Wuzzy: I'll pass that on when Stu is around Wuzzy: !tell Stu Why don't you do the import yourselves anyway? MinetestBot: Wuzzy: I'll pass that on when Stu is around BuckarooBanzai: Wuzzy: stu is absent currently :/ Wuzzy: why would you ask me to do something to a repository you don't control? BuckarooBanzai: I have access to both, just not the contentdb Wuzzy: anyway, the tag does not exist Wuzzy: so, no release Clock: Hey Clock: Can you install any mods from windows onto the linux version? search_social: Clock: should be since it's all lua Clock: Oh hey search_social how you going bro? Clock: Yer on aero... Clock: How you keepin search_social: what's aero Wuzzy: BuckarooBanzai: where is the tag you are talking about Wuzzy: cuz i dont see it search_social: Hi I am getting "require() is disabled when mod security is on" error from adv_chat mod even though I added it to trusted_mods Clock: search_social, You're on aero space chat Clock: That's what aero is search_social: oh hi sfan5: does adv_chat perhaps expect mod security to be disabled? search_social: no it yelled at me that it wasn't in trusted_mods before i added it MinetestBot: Andrey: Jun-29 22:26 UTC you could probably override the bone position of the "" bone Andrey: !tell appguru which bone and what position coords of that bone do I need to override to? MinetestBot: Andrey: I'll pass that on when appguru is around Andrey: how to get 'pointed_thing' table when clicked an entity? Andrey: that is not passed to 'on_rightclick' callback as I can see Andrey: as in node`s one search_social: !tell appguru In adv_chat mod: https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/releases/download/v1.17.5/matterbridge-1.17.5-linux-64bit MinetestBot: search_social: yeah, sure, whatever Clock: Help Clock: I'm pressing the jump button aka Space bar Clock: And the dumb thing moves me forwards instead of UP Clock: I dont want it moving me forwards... Clock: Why does it do that how to remove this? sfan5: which platform are you playing on? Clock: Windows Clock: Was working fine last night Clock: Nothing new happened sfan5: changed any settings? Clock: Nope sfan5: open minetest.conf in a text editor and check if there are any setting that rebind the keys Clock: spacebar = jump atm Clock: it flys straight for a while up in the air Clock: then it magically starts moving forward sfan5: did you enable pitch move by chance? Emerald2: I hate it when I accidentally enable pitch move. :p Clock: How do I disable that Emerald2: Mine is bound to p, but I'm not sure if that's standard. Clock: That is what it was Clock: -_- Clock: Thanks Clock: What is shift binded to again? Clock: To make him go down what is it called Emerald2: Sneak? Clock: Ah thats it Clock: Cheers Emerald2: I ticked the box for "special" = climb down. Emerald2: I find it easier to hold e than shift. Andrey: does anybody know how to get 'pointed_thing' table when click an entity? sfan5: in a tool callback or what? Andrey: no, in entity`s callback, 'on_rightclick' Andrey: as I see, that table is not passed there Andrey: then what to do? sfan5: why do you need that table? it will always be equivalent to { type = "object", ref = self.object } Andrey: just I would like to define in what point on the surface of entity`s box player clicks sfan5: pointed_thing does not contain that information, your best bet would be to do a raycast Andrey: create Raycast object? Andrey: thanks Andrey: other question bundled with raycasts: how to define end position of ray in my case? oil_boi: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10155 I understand the not supported end of this, but the underlying issue is still there, servers can be crashed with a 0 setting with one number being changed in the source code oil_boi: The player instantly becomes nil server side the nanosecond they join oil_boi: I'm not talking about changing this server side, I'm talking about changing this in the client joining a server oil_boi: Also it was 1 not 0 Flitzpiepe: hello everyone oil_boi: Hi flitzpiepe hecks: anybody got a server with a high block send distance? hecks: I need to test something Zughy: is there a way to connect a world with another? Two different servers on same DNS but different ports, ie teleporting players between them sfan5: often requested feature, but no Zughy: GRR reaction hecks: doesn't sound impossible to hack in, but not trivial Zughy: ok, then question n°2: if I paste a big schematic (ie a CTF map) and on the other side of the world there are players, will they receive a lag spike due to the massive copy-paste? sfan5: no because that area is not within their view range Zughy: that's great news, ty sfan5 _Zaizen_: Let's gooo hecks: someone's making instances I see Zughy: someone is making proper skywars hecks: I never understood that server, it's barely a game Zughy: because that server is pure bait, said by someone who played Minecraft for years Zughy: ikr hecks: is it trying to imitate something? Zughy: it's a deathmatch, but not skywars Zughy: These https://invidio.us/search?q=skywars hecks hecks: aaa uh okay I think I just got cancer sfan5: i want quake deathmatch in mt sfan5: anyone made that yet? Zughy: yes sfan Zughy: me Zughy: :))) hecks: sfan5: do you want CPMA in minetest? sfan5: okay should have said quake-like because i've literally never played it hecks: I've been tempted to do that for a while now Zughy: what's the command to look for a server here? just type "Quake" sfan5: !server quake MinetestBot: sfan5: [Quake] La FOSSa delle Papere | minetest.eticadigitale.org:30010 | Clients: 0/20, 0/3 | Version: 5.1.1 / quake | Ping: 27ms sfan5: >Challenge ProMode Arena (more commonly referred to as CPMA) Zughy: it's geolocalised sfan5: oh I think i've heard of it Zughy: yeah, we've been not advertising it yet because we want a couple more mini-games inside it first Zughy: being a moba and proper skywars Zughy: (be sure to bring at least a friend in order to play Quake) Zughy: also: hecks I love your GIFs and how you're not using the basic Sam model hecks: w hecks: oh and for that quake thing hecks: are you accounting for lag at all in the netcode? Zughy: you're optimist :D we've been learning on the way. Feel free to send me a PM on Minetest or idk, I have to go now. And thank you for the feedback, really appreciated MinetestBot: appguru: Jul-05 10:37 UTC which bone and what position coords of that bone do I need to override to? MinetestBot: appguru: Jul-05 10:50 UTC In adv_chat mod: https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/releases/download/v1.17.5/matterbridge-1.17.5-linux-64bit MinetestBot: appguru: Jul-05 10:51 UTC In adv_chat mod: MinetestBot: appguru: Jul-05 10:51 UTC https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/releases/download/v1.17.5/matterbridge-1.17.5-linux-64bit appguru: Forums down again? sfan5: works for me appguru: Now it works for me as well, but a few minutes earlier it 504'd MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Apply camera smoothing to 'air stepheight' (#10025) 13dc6318b https://git.io/JJIgc (152020-07-05T22:45:21Z) Seirdy: ooh boy i managed to get all 100 quarries running for half the night on my 270 HV battery boxes. just 230 more battery boxes to go! Seirdy: what are some things I should do with all these resources i'm mining? i was thinking about building a Crystal Palace with all the mese/crystals. maybe i could also use the DigTron to dig undergound tunnels and line them with railways. any other cool ideas? Phase_: Help Phase_: I found a random chest in my world Phase_: when I try to smash it Phase_: It respawns instantly Phase_: How do I remove it oil_boi: Wat Phase_: There is no guides on how to remove it DrFrankenstone: empty it first oil_boi: Oh I see he found the fourth of july easter egg oil_boi: Nah I'm just kidding, for some reason in MTG you can't mine a chest/furnace without it being empty Phase_: Nice Phase_: One time I went down really far Phase_: And found these random beings in HELL Phase_: Shooting fire balls at me Phase_: And they couldn't die either oil_boi: The dungeon master oil_boi: High hp with those guys oil_boi: Wait until you find an oerkki Phase_: Oh yeah? Phase_: Nice... Phase_: Is he included by default oil_boi ? oil_boi: I'll be honest, I have no idea Phase_: Ah fair enough Administator_pc: hi jess: Administator_pc was looking for help with connecting to minetest servers, i think Krock: noo texmex: Anyone having success in changing default font on 5.3? I just get no text at all after changing. Krock: using a custom path for years, never seen that rubenwardy: iirc, you need an absolute path texmex: rubenwardy: Having that. :/ Tirifto: Hello all! I just came across the strings ‘Caves’ and ‘Caverns’ while translating. Wiki says nothing about the latter. Could someone please clarify the difference? Krock: cave = small Krock: cavern = huge Krock: caverns are generated by default in all mapgens but v6 (IIRC), and can be easily as big to fit an entire city Tirifto: Thank you, Krock! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! rubenwardy: Translates caverns as big caves Tirifto: The word I used basically means ‘what is greater than a cave’. :) oil_boi: What is server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 29? 29 minutes? rubenwardy: what does settingtypes say? IE: the description in All Settings oil_boi: How much the server will wait before unloading unused mapblocks. oil_boi: Higher value is smoother, but will use more RAM. oil_boi: Also sfan5 https://youtu.be/qt8Cvt8BypQ oil_boi: Absolutely madness Corey[m]1: Hmm, okay, so I've been digging into the minetest network code, and I have a sniffer going (it intercepts udp packets and decodes them to and from the server), whatever the client is doing it's sending quite a lot of player position updates even though I'm not moving at all ziron: Im trying to figure out why my players on my server have half their bodies in the ground. Anyone know anything about that? Phase_: Press H Phase_: Turn off no clip ziron: That did not work ziron: I think its related to a mod Phase_: Then it will be because of a mod Phase_: Yes, stock behavior does not do that ziron: nice ziron: Im not 100% on that I just know there were some minetest api updates that messed up a mode that that moved your arms around and stuff when you walk around ziron: https://notabug.org/NathanS21/Epic ziron: this is what im working on ziron: and his server does not do this so im assuming something is up here ziron: maybe its the minetest version im using or something is what I was thinking rubenwardy: ziron: update your mods. There's a mod that messes with the player and was designed for 0.4, you need an updated mod for 5.0 ziron: Ok I think im going to open up an issue so I can figure out what the minetest version being used on the server is and if anyone else working with this code is having this issue ziron: https://notabug.org/attachments/22a50e37-b762-485c-adaf-d73faf914698 ziron: picture if anyone wants to see NathanS21: Ziron, you need to change a setting for the playeranim mod so it uses the right model. NathanS21: If you are using a Dev build of Minetest it will be broken. NathanS21: If you're using 5.2 it can be set to work. appguru: NathanS21: they need to update playeranim, it should autodetect if you run MT 5 ziron: NathanS21, do you know what the setting is? NathanS21: Ziron, this is what I use on the server. NathanS21: playeranim.model_version = MTG_4_Nov_2017 ziron: ok cool thanks! NathanS21: Maybe I need to update Playeranim, I don't know. But that's what I have, and it works with 5.2 ziron: Its all good! I figured it was some config thing. ziron: where do I put this minetest.conf or world.mt or somewhere else NathanS21? ziron: ok putting it in minetest.conf did work. Is world.mt supposed to work for these settings too? It never does for me. NathanS21: World.mt is just for which mods are loaded. NathanS21: You can do a .conf file for each world, but I forget how to set that up for singleplayer. oil_boi: Is this _The_ nathans21? oil_boi: :P appguru: I guess so oil_boi: I know I was just kidding around oil_boi: Leorockway just showed me this https://www.ponyos.org/ oil_boi: Way no it was fuldyme, blame them for what your eyes are about to _enjoy_ NathanS21: Ya, I'm me NathanS21: Have been me for years. :) oil_boi: Ah same oil_boi: Also, how is the spawn area museum coming along? oil_boi: Huh, I just accidentally inserted a function creation call inside of a function and the game just ran it anyways Corey[m]1: funny, I just crashed worldgen Corey[m]1: I have no idea how I did it Corey[m]1: https://gist.github.com/IceDragon200/bfe41b1f64ebbf7c6e036ce0f0b6bfd4 frabbit: hey people, sadly i need to delete my account frabbit: i will delete my forum profile too frabbit: so if anyone comes here as frabbit in the future: its not me frabbit: you all were very kind with helping me out with stuff. wish u all a good time and stay safe ;) frabbit: bye Corey[m]1: eh, he didn't even say why... search_social: Hi, I have recently added a bunch of mods and now the cpu utilization of the minetest server is high. Is there a way to "profile" and see which mod is hogging the cpu without having to enable/disable them one-by-one? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1619 oil_boi: What is the server? oil_boi: I want to try :D search_social: well it's about to be going down a lot xd search_social: do you have a server oil_boi oil_boi: Only a development server search_social: cool search_social: where is it oil_boi: crafter.minetest.land search_social: https://paste.ircnow.org/paste/3lrka939ffba bad argument #1 to 'sub' (string expected, got table) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome sfan5: profiler bug? search_social: well, it could be a bug anywhere, but it happens when as soon as i login to the server with profiler enabled oil_boi: It means that the item entity has an illegal name oil_boi: usually called by mods that do add_item() or a manual spawning of __builtin:item_entity with nil values oil_boi: There is no exception written into the profiler oil_boi: lua 5.2 has goto, incredible oil_boi: Why would you need that BuckarooBanzai: !tell Wuzzy can you please make a release of the 3d_armor (https://content.minetest.net/packages/stu/3d_armor/) and scifi_nodes (https://content.minetest.net/packages/D00Med/scifi_nodes/) mods on the contentdb, you can use the current date "2020-07-03" for the tag, thanks :) MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Don't stop style parsing on unknown property (#10143) 13da71313 https://git.io/JJTdb (152020-07-03T16:33:23Z) gry: Hi search_social, what are you writing? oil_boi: How is v3s16 defined in the engine? sfan5: src/irr_v3d.h:typedef core::vector3d v3s16; oil_boi: I'm making this mapgen 32 bit capable even it it burns a hole in my brain appguru: Corey[m]1: in fact yes! appguru: It's an undocumented feature AFAIK. Corey[m]1: so texture packs are essentially resource packs then? appguru: I'm not quite sure, IIRC soundpacks need to be placed in the "sounds" directory appguru: This makes me wonder whether "model packs" would work... appguru: https://wiki.minetest.net/Sound_Packs freelikegnu: lol I just tried to cd .. out of an irc channel :D appguru: just need to get a terminal-based client :P DrFrankenstone: I've got a node here that doesn't drop itself, but which a player might want to obtain intact. What's the state of silk-touch picks in MT? Is there anything I can put in the node to specify what a silktouch-ish tool would drop, like a commonly used tool filtering string? DrFrankenstone: ah crap, tool filtering by string is deprecated and tool filtering by group isn't a thing yet DrFrankenstone: guess I know what to do oil_boi: How hard would it be to introduce dynamic multithreading into MTE oil_boi: Oooo https://github.com/effil/effil#how-to-install oil_boi: Apparently you can dump stuff into the thread and possibly use globalstep to wait for information from the thread oil_boi: Non-blocking multithreading DrFrankenstone: would a lua script create its own worker threads then wait for them to finish - so that only lua that was written with multithreading in mind would be run in parallel? oil_boi: I believe if you execute them into that thing it would begin a parallel thread and be non breaking oil_boi: You'd have to return them to a global though oil_boi: Which isn't that difficult if you're using some kind of meta table, ie node or entity calculations hashing positions or something oil_boi: Man I wish jeija was in here right now I have a pretty good question for em oil_boi: I have the redstone dispersal data crawl but I need to learn how to make it much faster, skipchecking oil_boi: Was thinking about breaking dust calculations into octrees using the standardization that mapblocks use in the engien oil_boi: engine* DrFrankenstone: wouldn't luathat wasn't designed to be threaded interact with the world and interfere with other scripts that are also interacting with the world? DrFrankenstone: e.g. if two scripts are reading and writing the same node locations sfan5: yes sfan5: though the engine has locks for this so one thread would just end up waiting for the other to finish sfan5: so what you really want is to submit some calculations that can run in another thread independent of map, players, ... sfan5: and then you could receive the result when it's done sfan5: conceptually similar to the library oil_boi has linked rubenwardy: [08:13:20] <f44336oil_boi> Man I wish jeija was in here right now I have a pretty good question for em rubenwardy: You could try email oil_boi: Ah man oil_boi: Sorry I got overwhelmed in recursive thoughts about how to do the calculations in a much simpler method and had to lay down to process, so, here we go oil_boi: Also I missed the part about engine locks, the calculations could get sloppy so it's only to be used for things like, I dunno, mob calculations or something oil_boi: imprecision without affecting the actual game while taking the load off the main server thread handling world interactions oil_boi: Entities could lag while the world does not oil_boi: Or hell that would probably solve the entities lagging at all within reason hmm hmm hmm sfan5: what kind of heavy calculations do entities do? sfan5: pathfinding could be done async oil_boi: If you ever notice on a really slow MC server the mobs lag and kind of pause but still keep looking at you while you can keep mining if the right bukkit plugins are installed, that's because what the server is saying the mob is doing and the client is telling the mob to do has become thread desynced oil_boi: Let's see trigonometry, pathfinding, lua magnet collision detection, stuff like that oil_boi: head_rotation.x = degrees(minetest.dir_to_yaw(vector.new(vector.distance(vector.new(pos.x,0,pos.z),vector.new(pos2.x,0,pos2.z)),0,pos.y-pos2.y))+(math.pi/2)) to do the yaw of the head from the position it is actually in oil_boi: Hm that's yaw because of horizontal bones being defined in the mesh oil_boi: I forgot I had to work around that oil_boi: Pathfinding does dynamic step deletes to work around the very strange algorithm and velocity assertions to "whip turn" when coming to a corner for a split second so it doesn't fall off the path without looking too choppy oil_boi: I could also hand off redstone power distribution to an async thread to stop the main thread from coming to a crawl need be oil_boi: Right now the main issue is finding a way to statically and dynamically create the ability for 100% predictable circuitry without lag, that's why I'm on the 7th rewrite of it this week * oil_boi: wonders if it's possible to iterate once through a virtual dust map and create torch distribution data oil_boi: No no, the signal would just bounce back :( I'd have to iterate back and forth on every axis MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix undeclared global in devtest (#10133) 133f702fa https://git.io/JJTvF (152020-07-02T17:05:06Z) _Zaizen_: Hi everyone, I would like to know how can I stop an entity from moving. The movement is created by setting a velocity and acceleration. sfan5: set velocity and acceleration to zero? _Zaizen_: Nope it doesn't seem to work for some reason. sfan5: is your entity attached? _Zaizen_: No. It's an entity that moves on it's own sfan5: then there's an issue in your code _Zaizen_: ok, I will try to understand what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for the help oil_boi: direct3d9 completely locks me out of the game unless I wipe the conf file of that setting oil_boi: but d38 works, wat oil_boi: sfan5, I just found an optimization, inside an optimization, inside an optimization oil_boi: bumped the redstone power level up to 16 states and this new method is faster, with 20 torches and massive debug output of everything that every torch is indexing over a 16x32x16 area than one torch was calculating with no terminal output oil_boi: Holy crap there was so much debug output it stack overflowed dump() sfan5: 🤔 oil_boi: sfan5, 0 lag https://i.imgur.com/wpu57SQ.png oil_boi: This is just insane Corey[m]1: has anyone every attempted to remove 'default' from their mod's depedency before, it's like a horror experience, when you realize how many little spots it exists in rubenwardy: I hate default Corey[m]1: I'll let you know how badly it goes shortly, I need to replace the sounds first... MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Jun-30 03:41 UTC I think it's almost time you can put redstone into mc2 MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Jun-30 03:41 UTC referring to "how feasible would it be to cannibalize this and put it into mc2?" in the forum a few months ago Corey[m]1: um... why is LIGHT_MAX in default, isn't that more of an engine thing? oil_boi: Why yes, I have tried to remove default from my mod dependencies oil_boi: I dunno why that made me laugh so hard rubenwardy: it's an alias to not break mods, Corey[m]1 rubenwardy: it is also in the engine Corey[m]1: Well I have the source of everything on hand, so I can always verify, core does indeed have LIGHT_MAX Corey[m]1: but from what I gather, we shouldn't ever be referencing core. in mods rubenwardy: minetest.LIGHT_MAX rubenwardy: default has the following line: `default.LIGHT_MAX = minetest.LIGHT_MAX` rubenwardy: and minetest builtin has the following line: `minetest = core` Corey[m]1: strange, the copy I have here says `default.LIGHT_MAX = 14` not the minetest reference rubenwardy: oh, that's silly Corey[m]1: mods/default/init.lua Corey[m]1: 12:default.LIGHT_MAX = 14 Corey[m]1: yep search_social: Hi, I just git cloned the latest worldedit and am getting this error on //1: worldedit.marker1[name]:get_luaentity() search_social: is nil search_social: 2020-06-21 21:03:54: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'worldedit_commands' in callback item_OnUse(): ...52.git/bin/../mods/worldedit/worldedit_commands/mark.lua:23: attempt to index a nil value Zughy: 970 issues, ouch search_social: 2020-06-21 21:03:54: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback: search_social: 2020-06-21 21:03:54: ERROR[Main]: ...52.git/bin/../mods/worldedit/worldedit_commands/mark.lua:23: in function 'mark_pos1' search_social: 2020-06-21 21:03:54: ERROR[Main]: ...52.git/bin/../mods/worldedit/worldedit_commands/wand.lua:23: in function <...52.git/bin/../mods/worldedit/worldedit_commands/wand.lua:17> sfan5: uh sfan5: maybe use a pastebin for the error message next time search_social: sorry oil_boi: yes and add emojis to it sfan5: unless the entity mysteriously disappears I don't see how that error could happen sfan5: is it reproducible? search_social: yes it happens anytime i use //1 .. i'm wondering if it's because of old data from the previous worldedit oil_boi: Why not add if not thing:get_luaentity() return end sfan5: old data? Krock: oil_boi: "marker1[name]" is nil, not the value of get_luaentity search_social: i guess it could be some other mod like regional climate doing something oil_boi: Wait no that's recursive problem if not thing[table] or (thing[table] and not thing[table]:get_luaentity()) then return end sfan5: Krock: the error message doesn't indicate that does it? oil_boi: It does search_social: i verified with print statements that worldedit.marker1[name] = userdata: 0x42ac4f00 oil_boi: Are you exceeding the loaded area/area unloading despawning entity? search_social: well the server just started after the last crash and i haven't issued any command except //1 oil_boi: Ah yes a table index check and table index if luaentity check would stop that from crashing sfan5: search_social: add some debug output for orldedit.marker1[name]:get_luaentity() please oil_boi: But might cause undefined behavior Krock: sfan5: I don't know about "//1" but "//1: worldedit.marker1[name]:get_luaentity()" looked to me like the code that caused the error later on search_social: sfan5: well i tried print(type(worldedit.marker1[name]:get_luaentity()) and it said mark.lua:36: bad argument #1 to 'type' (value expected) ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome Krock: since 5.3.0-dev there's no undefined entity behaviour search_social: oh yeah i'm running 5.2.0 so i need to run 5.3.0? Krock: it's a bug when using the latest stable, so I suppose it should be fixed somehow, even if it works in 5.3.0-dev sfan5: search_social: type(nil) is valid so no idea about that oil_boi: undefined behavior in the calculations that are stated between these two entities hm hm hm hm sfan5: I haven't heard any reports that worldedit is broken in 5.2 either oil_boi: aka crashing boi Krock: > if (co == NULL) return 0; Krock: 0 returned arguments when the objcet cannot be found Krock: though that should return "nil"? dunno sfan5: so return 0; isn't equivalent to returning nil after all? sfan5: search_social: try print(type((worldedit.marker1[name]:get_luaentity()))) sfan5: with exactly those parenthesis Krock: I mean there's lua_isnone but I don't know when this applies oil_boi: Could the table be creating the data before it's instated into the core.registered_entities on a really slow computer? sfan5: no it all happens sequentially on a single thread oil_boi: Then I'll be ducked, gotta add an exception to the code incase of failure of creation lua entity/instant deletion/something destroying table data randomly sfan5: the weird thing is that the entity reference is being created correctly but the reference is invalid sfan5: could be a 5.2 specific bug after all oil_boi: Why not base the positional data off an internal memory map as to not rely on something that could possibly despawn and handle between those two points regardless of the entity existing? search_social: (worldedit.marker1[name]:get_luaentity()) --- print(type()) this is nil and print() this is nil too sfan5: that's what it does, the entities are just for display oil_boi: I dunno then man just make the position explode if the entity isn't found sfan5: search_social: which mods are you running? search_social: a lot of ones from content db the one that seemed most likely to cnoflict was something was the regional weather one search_social: the old worldedit mod that wasn't crashing i see the mark function doesn't have a "region_too" paramater search_social: or an "init_sentinel" sfan5: well idk sfan5: you can comment out call code inside on_active (3 functions total) and it should work sfan5: on_activate* search_social: okay that made it work thanks!!!!! oil_boi: I did not expect that solution Guest53785: Hello Guest53785: My minetest can't fetch content DB and server list rubenwardy: OS? Guest53785: Linux mint Guest53785: Linux Mint 19.3 Guest53785: The terminal output this: Guest53785: 2020-07-01 17:50:46: ERROR[Main]: https://content.minetest.net/api/packages/?type=mod&type=game&type=txp&protocol_version=39&hide=nonfree&hide=desktop_default not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0) Guest53785: but when I put this url in firefox browser I cant get the json perfectly rubenwardy: you can try increasing the curl timeout, but it should already be at 30 seconds rubenwardy: what happens if you try again? It might be cached now Guest53785: The same happens Guest53785: I'll try to increase timeout Guest53785: This is my config: https://imgur.com/SAdflg5 Guest53785: Men, it's works! rubenwardy: what timeout did you need? Guest53785: I just increase timeout Guest53785: 30 000 rubenwardy: I'm surprised it takes longer than 30 seconds Guest53785: My network has currently 3Mbps Guest53785: Thanks Guest53785: How can I help improve minetest menu. I've some programming knowledge rubenwardy: at this point, we're waiting on UX design rubenwardy: see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6733 Guest53785: I've already see this issue and would like to implement tacotexmex menu rubenwardy: see my comment there Guest53785: Great, I see rubenwardy: I suppose you could merge the two designs, with a new GUI system rubenwardy: just merging designs probably won't work well Guest53785: So what I do? Guest53785: Did you know a youtube channel that have good minetest survival videos? rubenwardy: I don't, but here's a topic with videos: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8499 rubenwardy: also checkout https://www.youtube.com/user/313hummer/videos hisforever: Hi I just reinstalled Manjaro Linux os on Laptop. I installed minetest. In Home folder there is No .minetest folder. Should I put the .mintest in my home Folder so I can put my mod folder there ? Guest53785: Did you started minetest for the first time? Guest53785: When you create a world the .minetest should be created, I think Guest53785: If not created hisforever: yes I actually have installed Mods in minetest itself hisforever: I thought that myself Guest53785: How do you install minetest? Guest53785: Did you use flatpak? hisforever: through terminal with sudo pacman -S minetest hisforever: I think it was throught hisforever: flat pack hisforever: I'll just unstall minetest then reinstall hisforever: brb admicos: pacman is the native package manager of arch-based distros, flatpak is a seperate thing admicos: just letting you know rubenwardy: if you run minetest at least once, it'll create ~/.minetest rubenwardy: you may need to create a world or something first rubenwardy: note that the dot means it is hidden hisforever: yes I know that, thats why I'm unstalling then reinstalling hisforever: I also know that .minetest is hidden hisforever: brb Lone_Wolf: @Guest53785, there are a few streamers on Twitch too rubenwardy: hm Guest53785: Open a new terminal and type "ls ~/.minetest" Guest53785: What is the output? Guest53785: Type without the commas hisforever: ok I just installed mt 5.2.0 and everything looks great thanks for the help Zughy: hisforever: can't you just install it via the official application manager? I have Minetest on a Manjaro too and it perfectly works Zughy: oh, too late hisforever: Zughy thats the way I did it this time hisforever: lol hisforever: ok your a great bunch thanks again see you soon Zughy: does this work for human beings too? Zughy: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Zughy: YES (*normal human beings) Zughy: so hey guys, how's going with the 5.3? sfan5: left issues: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/16 Zughy: it was more some sort of "tell me about it", with people crying, screaming, walking on the ceiling and such sfan5: well #10113 is potentially a huge issue or maybe not an issue at all ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10113 -- Severe performance degradation in 5.3 compared to 5.2 sfan5: but nobody really knows sfan5: and I can't be bothered to try this out either Zughy: yeah, that doesn't seem funny at all to track down Morphyx: Hi Zughy: heyo Morphyx: I was borred and come to talk a bit appguru: going through https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed+performance rn Corey[m]1: There are texture packs, but, are there sound packs for minetest? oil_boi: !tell wuzzy, I think it's almost time you can put redstone into mc2 MinetestBot: oil_boi: yeah, yeah oil_boi: !tell wuzzy, referring to "how feasible would it be to cannibalize this and put it into mc2?" in the forum a few months ago MinetestBot: oil_boi: I'll pass that on when wuzzy, is around oil_boi: This algorithm is so fast it's got me distraught, I didn't know lua could be that fast oil_boi: There is no need to check the world unless something new has happened: Minecarts can actually utilize the same implementation to do ultra fast calculations in the local area to calculate a rail constraint for extremely fast movement gry: !tell gry, this is a test with a comma MinetestBot: gry: I'll pass that on when gry, is around gry: . gry: !tell gry this is a test without a comma MinetestBot: You can tell that to yourself gry: oil_boi, i suspect the bot thinks the comma is a part of the nick, and it might fail to deliver the message.. (unless something tells you otherwise) oil_boi: Oh crap oil_boi: Let me try again thanks man oil_boi: !tell wuzzy I think it's almost time you can put redstone into mc2 MinetestBot: oil_boi: I'll pass that on when wuzzy is around oil_boi: !tell wuzzy referring to "how feasible would it be to cannibalize this and put it into mc2?" in the forum a few months ago MinetestBot: oil_boi: I'll pass that on when wuzzy is around gry: oil_boi, no, thank YOU for implementing these lovely things :) oil_boi: No problem :D oil_boi: Is there a way to turn off **player left **player joined messages? oil_boi: And **you died messages? oil_boi: sfan5, remember how ice melting caused severe stuttering? that seems to have been from the faces recalculation through a transparent node (water), turning it solid with normal drawtype seems to have greatly improved the performance of this oil_boi: Is this game like invincible or something, I was level 588,000 on my dev test server and I died due to tnt, and the game spawns 1 entity per level of xp, so it processed 588,000 spawnentity calls on a single core 1gb ram server without the server crashing, we timed out of course search_social: Hi, I am wondering how the servers on http://servers.minetest.net/ are sorted. The first servers are sorted by players but then there are lots of servers with a couple of players underneath servers with zero players. sfan5: search_social: there's a point ranking thats a bit more complicated https://github.com/minetest/master-server/blob/master/server.py#L332 search_social: thanks sfan5 Zughy: I don't know where to report this, but IRC logs aren't HTTPS and they're not visible neither from Firefox nor from Tor, saying 404 - nginx/1.17.7 Zughy: it's been like this for at least a month. Also, it's a privacy hardened Firefox, if it may help Zughy: (it works on bromite tho) NetherEran: Works from Tor for me Zughy: NetherEran: on a standard security level? NetherEran: all 3 built in security levels Zughy: wth how Zughy: I guess it's related to my OS..? sfan5: you can't read them over https even if you ignore the certificate warning Zughy: oh ok, so it was because of HTTPS everywhere, got it, ty hisforever: HI I keep getting this error, it is error{server}:LuaEntry name "cube_mobs_box_shoot" not defined . How can I remedy this please? Zughy: there is something inside a mod in your server that should be defined but it's not. Try deactivate a few mods every time, to understand which is the one throwing that error (I guess something mobs related?). I'd like to help you more but I have to go appguru: It's from "cube_mobs" I guess appguru: Try updating or disabling oil_boi: Oh my, I think I have an idea for transmission of power into unloaded areas freelikegnu: got tools attached to my goblins, had to redo armature and animation from scratch :P oil_boi: :D oil_boi: I remade mesecons in redstone in the form of iron blocks as capacitors oil_boi: They only output into directional activators though so you can actually utilize them in extremely interesting ways oil_boi: You can run redstone along side them as other calculations are happening, they're basically wires :D oil_boi: sfan5, https://youtu.be/Ggq4CUF4nt8 oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: Crafter - Conductive Iron Blocks - YouTube oil_boi: You can now pass the states from one circuit into another oil_boi: You can even make a physical break statement by pulling iron blocks out of a line of iron blocks sfan5: 🤔 oil_boi: I'm going to attempt to stop the entire local area within the bounding box from being calculated by doing a simple immediate area check oil_boi: If this works, that means this is going to speed it up even more oil_boi: It works NetherEran: 🎉 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04srifqi -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add Indonesian translations (#2693) 138c01a5b https://git.io/JJfqr (152020-06-29T16:41:50Z) hisforever: Hi I need help please ? https://pastebin.com/qBNimVym .. my minetest crashes please help? oil_boi: hisforever, it looks like the mod creator forgot to throw in an exception for a nil table oil_boi: Might want to uninstall digtron and tell the developer in the forum post for now oil_boi: Show them your output starting at line 30 Krock: hisforever: update gidtron oil_boi: Or that hisforever: thanks oil_boi: oil_boi: No problemo :D Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! hisforever: I reported the reeor thanks everyone :) oil_boi: Man I can't believe people release stuff with bugs * oil_boi: puts my game in the closet oil_boi: oof wrong point of view for /me oil_boi: I, myself, put my game into the closet appguru: People often release stuff with bugs appguru: There are even large companies doing this Andrey: hello appguru: hi Andrey: what`s a method that rotates a model of a player? Andrey: set_rotation() is only for entities Andrey: and set_look_horizontal/vertical() rotates player`s camera, not himself Andrey: as I`ve understood there`s no, that`s just even wonderful o_O appguru: Andrey: you can attach a model to the player and rotate that Andrey: do you mean attach to player an object with model and rotate it? Andrey: and why would devs just not add a method not to use such weird workarounds? rubenwardy: Andrey: the client is in charge of the player's movement, not the server rubenwardy: the way to make the server in charge is to attach the player to an entity Andrey: ok, thanks appguru: Andrey: you could probably override the bone position of the "" bone appguru: !tell Andrey you could probably override the bone position of the "" bone MinetestBot: appguru: yeah, sure, whatever Copenhagen_Bram1: Why can't flowing water push the player around? IS it possible to make the player get knocked back when attacked by another player or an npc? oil_boi: Copenhagen_Bram1, yes and yes oil_boi: in the f6 menu, does serverstep [ms] mean it's taking 0.03ms or 0.03 seconds? oil_boi: Does set_node trigger on_destruct? Krock: yes Krock: also remove_node because it's basically set_node but "air" oil_boi: Noice oil_boi: Sfan5: https://youtu.be/3B8lEPnZ9UQ oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: Crafter - Redstone Clock - YouTube sfan5: *watches* oil_boi: Redstone update was extremely frustrating at first but now it's just a case of overhauling everything sfan5: :D oil_boi: Redstone is completely asynchronous from the map besides updates, the LBM code allows me to create a pure localized memory map of everything loaded and run through it as a simulation sfan5: doesn't that mean it could run faster than the map can "keep up" if you get unlucky? oil_boi: Nope, because the map actually doesn't matter at all, see "Repeater Island": https://youtu.be/fVWd8ULrDF8 oil_boi: I'm using data "injections" into the main memory pool as a form of voxel manipulation which is disgustingly fast sfan5: but for pistons? they definitely modify the map oil_boi: Oh of course, that's a redstone update, it checks the memory pool before attempting anything, it cannot move any redstone current nodes or anything with metadata oil_boi: That's why the redstone "clock" is possible along with the clock "face" being a lit colored lamp oil_boi: What you see on the map is simply an illusion of the calculations of the internal algorithm sfan5: interesting oil_boi: This allows me to place down 400 torches in a 1000x1000 area of redstone without lag oil_boi: I just got bored after 400 and accepted it worked oil_boi: Stack overflows are handled in the 6 input method as to coincide with the limitations of the voxel world and exceeding this results in redstone activators getting dug and turning into items, therefore being removed from the memory map oil_boi: Needless to say: this is MC redstone on steroids sfan5: updating the map uses a voxelmanip, right? oil_boi: Nope, it does an internal check of the origin value vs the new values and dynamically uses swap node to prevent additional updates from being called rubenwardy: voxel manip is only faster when the volume is greater oil_boi: If nothing changes, the map doesn't change rubenwardy: up to something like 5x5x5, it's faster to use set_node. Let alone swap_node sfan5: yeah swap_node is definitely well optimized for this usecase oil_boi: With this data method I could create "teleportation" redstone and have it transfer even into unloaded areas sfan5: redstone through the nether portal? 🤔🤔🤔🤔 oil_boi: Yes actually oil_boi: Or little transmission stations that you manually assign to go somewhere oil_boi: The only time the map matters is something like an inverter or repeater which uses a map update to create the next update using a timer, so when a repeater line goes into the unloaded area the transmission will stop even if the return is visibly towards you, might have to extend the map settings in the conf file to allow huge redstone contraptions oil_boi: When the comparator is finished I want to try to create a literal 4 digit rt clock MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update German translation 130648252 https://git.io/JJv3e (152020-06-28T13:50:00Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04tenplus1 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: TNT centre node adheres to protection 137cac67f https://git.io/JJv3T (152020-06-28T13:50:46Z) eerungur: https://github.com/random-geek/MapEdit < just had a major commit eerungur: bit broken, but excited to see what will change. oil_boi: Can voxelmanip access node meta? SoylentCow: there's a way, i do believe oil_boi: Oh my god soylent I thought you were a bot oil_boi: Hi SoylentCow: oh no wait, i was thinking param2 SoylentCow: no lol i am iamweasel sometimes oil_boi: There's a linux terminal thing when you type "something"cow it goes "moo" followed by a quote and an ascii cow SoylentCow: i am not surprised oil_boi: Hahaha, I thought someone remade that thing into a bot oil_boi: Is it faster to create a boundary box of the indexed nodes for redstone "crawling" or the current method of look through the current nodes with vector.distance as the boundary box and let the game do it's thing oil_boi: This is an extremely complex issue and needs to be taken care of, I have no idea if a recursive statement of get_node will be faster for the element indexing of redstone dust to be done in pure recursion or given a vm to crawl through with boundary limitations Emerald2: cowsay SoylentCow: ^3MOOOOOO^9OOOO!! SoylentCow: sorry, sore throat SoylentCow: 3MOOOOOO9OOOOOOOOOO!!!! Emerald2: LOL * SoylentCow: chews thoughtfully oil_boi: I just had an epiphany oil_boi: I can completely virtualize redstone into local memory oil_boi: voxelmanip on steroids oil_boi: Also oil_boi: cowsay oil_boi: Thank you whoever created LBMs oil_boi: An update on the redstone: The virtualization actually works to a level I didn't even know possible oil_boi: I can't make this area lag no matter how many torches I put down or take away and rapidly trigger: https://i.imgur.com/j6A5E36.png SX: hi, suggestions for mod unit testing minetest game / minetest core helpers? I've done a bit myself chat/player/settings/protection/node reg stuff that I needed but anyone knows some ready made piece that can simulate some pieces of API? SX: ofc not after actual mt API functionality but simplified simulation useful for unit testing with mostly static fixtures sfan5: the only unit testing (not a lot) I've seen so far starts up the engine and runs the stuff in there SX: okay, i've done a bit with busted. included some helpers and made simple player/settings that is enough for me and then noop functions for stuff i dont care SX: it seemed like pretty good approach so was hoping that someone maybe have already done that, problem with launching actual engine is that it falls more in side of integration testing sfan5: hm right, that would be the proper term for that SX: maybe code tells more than few words, anyone interested in topic check https://github.com/S-S-X/metatool/tree/info-bypass-priv/metatool/spec very simple currently and would need to implement more mt helpers/fixtures to make it general Corey[m]1: SX, sfan5: I do have a few unit tests in my own mod, mostly to test utility modules, maybe a formalized integration testing framework would be something to propose? SX: Corey[m]1 sounds good for me, would you like to share what you have in your mod? I just noticed that I managed to break link I sent earlier as I merged stuff into master and deleted branch where I linked to... SX: I believe having good unit test framework for mods might also encourage writing well defined interfaces and through that might even reduce "my code should be private, nobody else should use these functions"-mentality a bit :) rubenwardy: !book unit test MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Automatic Unit Testing - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/quality/unit_testing.html rubenwardy: SX ^ rubenwardy: !mod [classroom] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Classroom [classroom] by rubenwardy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=23715 - https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/classroom rubenwardy: Has some tests SX: rubenwardy yes, that I've seen and I did actually select busted based on that but what I was thinking was allowing unit tests on functions that use minetest API / possibly default game API directly. For that I did what I did for metatool mod and then started thinking why do this here as it should SX: be at least a bit more generalized framework that i SX: ncludes some well defined simulations/fixtures for engine API methods. SX: that ^^ was really good article as it allowed direct start with basic testing without any knowledge about tools available for lua testing. Corey[m]1: SX: sure Corey[m]1: https://github.com/IceDragon200/mt-yatm/tree/master/yatm_core/tests Corey[m]1: these are a sample of the tests, from the core Corey[m]1: https://github.com/IceDragon200/mt-yatm/blob/master/yatm_core/luna.lua Corey[m]1: and the test module itself SX: thanks Corey[m]1, good to see how some else approached that with some real project Corey[m]1: glad to be of service :) freelikegnu: man I feel like an idiot. I cannot figure out how to attach a had to a mob oil_boi: A had to a mob? Why not ask it is it has haved oil_boi: Oof that was a terrible pun freelikegnu: i deserved that, i meant hat oil_boi: Hm, well first you have to get which bone is the head, then you need to disable movement to the mob and examine where it rests on the bone, then adjust the attachment offset until it is exactly where you want it freelikegnu: well I'm not even that far... I have the initial properties for the hat and a minetest.register_entity("witches:witch_hat",witch_hat) freelikegnu: but do I have to spawn the hat and then attach? oil_boi: Oh very simple, on activate (the mob itself) local object = minetest.add_entity(self.object:get_pos(), "hat entity") object:set_attach(self.objet, "bone", vector.new(0,0,0), vector.new(0,0,0)) oil_boi: object* oil_boi: Yes you do :) oil_boi: Make sure the hat object is not pointable until the witch despawns/killed/doesn't exist, and when it detects that it has no owner you can set it to physical so players could interact with it, or it could turn into a hat item that players could wear :D oil_boi: This is a lot of information, but, I banged my head against the desk until this was burned into a spot in my memory with spider eyes :P freelikegnu: yeah its really hard for me to grok compared to everything else I have encountered so far oil_boi: start with the first step: make the witch spawn the entity on activate, then do object:get_luaentity().owner = witch object oil_boi: make the hat check for self.owner and self.owner:get_luaentity() else self.remove() if you want it to auto remove when the witch deletes freelikegnu: oh yay! freelikegnu: thank you! oil_boi: You're welcome! Mahjong: oil_boi ping Mahjong: oil_boi I'm the guy from the youtube comment, would be awesome if you could join my chan Mahjong: sent an invite oil_boi: :o freelikegnu: nvm I figured out the visual_size property :D oil_boi: How does one create the max heardistance for footstep sounds? SoylentCow: is there a node property to make walk faster or slower? oil_boi: I just made redstone faster than mesecons oh my god NetherEran: oh boi :D oil_boi: NetherEran, 7 1/2 hours oh god, those doors still need to be optimized because the 2 part thing is poop oil_boi: I think I can make the top node a fake air node that's conductive and make it so you can activate it at any position oil_boi: Door rewrite later, but now sleep oil_boi: Oh yeah NetherEran the repeater bug thing you reported in the forum is fixed as well oil_boi: You can now place levers and buttons on anything because I managed to develop a metadata method to sneak data through nodes which means I can make metal blocks conductive as well oil_boi: Also the update is incomplete so redstone might make something crash for now, until later appguru: oil_boi: meta performance is not the best appguru: I'd try to use param2 if possible appguru: Or swap out blocks or something NetherEran: appguru: He's not online, you have to use !tell appguru: I'll go Discord then MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update translation templates 138855490 https://git.io/JfjXt (152020-06-26T12:41:30Z) Calinou: Wuzzy: I don't think I can promote users so they can edit the main page, unfortunately Calinou: (I saw your post on the forum) Calinou: otherwise I'd gladly make you an admin Wuzzy: sigh Calinou: celeron55: can you do that, please? Wuzzy: doe you really need to go all they to admin only to edit main page? Wuzzy: i want to believe MediaWiki is a little bit more flexible than that celeron55: i think there are three groups currently and for some reason the main pages are for admins only celeron55: looks like there's no groups suitable for this celeron55: i'll have to add one Wuzzy: okay... Wuzzy: celeron55: you're also Dev Wiki admin, right? celeron55: of course Krock: imagine not being admin on the wiki you're running on your servers Wuzzy: hahaha Wuzzy: Did any user ever get banned from either of the wikis? celeron55: nope, our strategy of barely making any accounts works to avoid that Wuzzy: that's a strategy? 😀 Krock: it works, so yes. Wuzzy: i thought its because the CAPTCHA is broken 😛 appguru: the wikis should be graciously killed appguru: relevant information (mostly about engine internals, or TODOs etc) should be moved to Markdown files in the repo Wuzzy: haha celeron55: i added the protected page editing permission to moderators and made wuzzy a moderator Wuzzy: ah thanks. both wikis? celeron55: both Wuzzy: great! Wuzzy: a big issue in dev wiki is the huge duplication of lua_api.txt information 🙁 Wuzzy: i havent figured out how to fix it. its a really MASSIVE amount of function names that are just copied from lua_api.txt at one point, then never updated Wuzzy: unsurpsigingly, huge amounts of the Dev Wiki are now out of date Wuzzy: okay celeron55, any special rules/advice/guidelines/whatever i should know about MainPage? celeron55: none celeron55: make it good Wuzzy: ok Wuzzy: 😀 Wuzzy: excelleng guideline 🙂 celeron55: it's difficult to mess up a wiki too bad as it has this "history" thing Wuzzy: indeedy oil_boi: The dev wiki is helpful sometimes if you know what isn't correct Wuzzy: i know, but this doesn't excuse the large number of highly misleading pages... Wuzzy: I am working on it right now texmex: Maybe all references to the Lua API documentation could be dynamic somehow? Sections of lua_api.txt embedded instead of copied? appguru: all sections of lua_api.txt should either be removed or automatically copied over by a script skyliner_369: is there a way to change the way leaves wave? from big slow waves to something smaller and quicker. also to change the size of the leaf blocks. from 1.5 blocks to 1 block. Krock: skyliner_369: check the shader code. grep -r "WAVE" or so in client/ Krock: nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl: wavePos.x /= WATER_WAVE_LENGTH * 3; skyliner_369: it was the mod, Ethereal, setting leaf visual scale to 1.4 instead of keeping it at 1. Krock: oh. "leaves" not "waves" skyliner_369: the waves of leaves can be altered from slow, large, and gradual to quick and tight later. right now, I'm gonna go ahead and pop over to forums and message TenPlus1 Wuzzy: Ooff. OK, for today my wiki editing spree comes to an end... Wuzzy: I have touched a lot of pages including the Main Pages on both wikis to get rid of bad links, outdated descriptions, and the like Wuzzy: esp. the Dev Wiki has those badly outdated pages that replicate lua_api.txt Wuzzy: I didn't remove those pages, but at least i tried my best to remove most links that point to them Wuzzy: Please have a look 🙂 appguru: Wuzzy: if possible, I'd add some kind of "warning banner": "this modding API related-post may be outdated, the official documentation can be found at [link lua_api.txt]" Wuzzy: i did for *some* pages Wuzzy: but the thing is, there are 100s of such pages. Wuzzy: and i dont have time or willpower to add it by hand or write a script appguru: understandable oil_boi: Would it be more efficient for the game to calculate a float lower than 10 every server step or would it be more efficient to calculate minetest.get_us_time()/1000000 every time the player is punched? arydev: give me some tutorials for minetest moding MinetestBot: 02[git] 04runsy -> 03minetest/minetest_game: farming: Update Spanish translation (#2701) 133257780 https://git.io/JfhP8 (152020-06-25T10:35:36Z) Elouin: arydev: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html Elouin: oh, left MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Release test build to Android beta program 133014e8b https://git.io/Jfhdj (152020-06-25T14:40:37Z) eerungur: rubenwardy: is there going to be a new minetest for android? rubenwardy: it's pending approval by Google rubenwardy: you can opt in here: sf::RenderTarget &target rubenwardy: https://play.google.com/apps/testing/net.minetest.minetest freelikegnu: its on f-droid too https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.minetest.minetest/ rubenwardy: not the most recent version rubenwardy: sorry, *not the beta version freelikegnu: no 5.3 on f-droid? rubenwardy: no, 5.3 hasn't been released freelikegnu: hope to see it in f-droid on release rubenwardy: f-droid maintain their own versions rubenwardy: someone can make a merge request though rubenwardy: like this: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/-/commit/4398bc8808273fec437eacc3e6a3f106a5430559 rubenwardy: hmm, it'll have to be changed to use the new system rubenwardy: fdroid have CI to check for updates, would be nice to have that running scr267: Getting an odd error from an ABM.... in callback node_on_dig(): /home/someguy/.minetest/mods/unifieddyes/init.lu scr267: a:197: core.check_player_privs expects a player or p scr267: 2020-06-25 12:11:39: ERROR[Main]: layername as argument. scr267: oops... sorry about the multiline post.. I was mis-copied that. Krock: cd /home/someguy/.minetest/mods/unifieddyes Krock: git pull sfan5: could happen if someone uses a technic machine to dig something unifieddyes-related scr267: Pretty sure it was a fresh clone but maybe I screwed that up Krock: ah yes. technic update as well scr267: There was some corium stuff that was dripping everywhere (as a test) scr267: on some technic machines scr267: close to some carpet using unifieddyes scr267: ok will try to update scr267: thx for the suggestion scr267: both are latest... well ill look to see if i can debug it Krock: perhaps pcall() the function as a try/catch replacement? Krock: speaking of the affected ABM callback scr267: I'm not familiar with pcall... :( I'll look it up scr267: But it mentions that the player is not being passed as an argument, yet the function call passes the 'digger' value... which is checked before hand 'if not digger then return end' scr267: so digger must be set to something Krock: "digger" must contain a is_player() function Krock: and that returns true Krock: pipeworks and technic try to imitate a real player which is really awful Krock: but yet the only solution scr267: digger is an object in minetest core then? scr267: Could I add a check 'minetest.is_player(digger) ' and exit on false? scr267: I don't see 'digger' in the object reference ... must be something else scr267: oh I see what you mean Krock, I could use: if not digger:is_player() then Krock: >Could I add a check 'minetest.is_player(digger) ' and exit on false? Krock: yes, probably scr267: Krock: Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Krock: good luck scr267: Krock, do you run a server? Krock: did. long time ago scr267: Ok Krock: one of the world's screenshots can still be found on the Android store :D scr267: oh? heh cool scr267: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jp5qsNG_Sn30bcirkf3BJlJ2LxSz-WvFQ9EvQ5AtnIGGq2PiI08P7ZCJgJRdYbi4WBY=w1920-h991 ?? oil_boi: after statements can be triggered before the designated time sfan5: can they? oil_boi: Yerp, just tested on a server oil_boi: And spammed the discord oops oil_boi: https://pastebin.com/raw/VdssaqJs MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix bone-attached entities (#10015) 137be082f https://git.io/Jfjqy (152020-06-25T22:06:29Z) freelikegnu: hmm how can I randomly change the visual_size of an entity on_spawn? skyliner_369: for a moment I thought that the openGL of Minetest died... turns out, tree grew on top of me. XD freelikegnu: I tried self.object:visual_size({x = math.random(0.9,1.1), y = math.random(0.9,1.1), z = math.random(0.9,1.1)}) freelikegnu: did not seem to like that skyliner_369: I'm wondering if suffocation should be a thing in the basic minetest game, or at least some form of stuck detection where the game TPs the player to the nearest valid spot for the player to stand. frabbit: is there a way to have a texture in this plantlike style but not with plantlike parameter? MinetestBot: oil_boi: Jun-23 08:58 UTC does it set mobs on fire if you hit them? :D oil_boi: Not yet! frabbit: i want to try if i can get animated 2d torches, the animation is easy but drawtype = plantlike is not satisfying, cause when using this on a torch on a wall or on ceiling it looks broken rubenwardy: try firelike? Corey[m]1: frabbit: Can you just change the nodebox then, drawtype = "nodebox" ? rubenwardy: you can also use meshes for arbitrary geometry Corey[m]1: rubenwardy: Since you brought up the mod security, our of curiosity I tried removing my mod from the trusted list to see what breaks and what I an patch up with pure lua rubenwardy: I've since noticed that you do use trusted mods. Passing the ffi using a global variable is insecure though Corey[m]1: It's set on the mods' global, and then nilified before the init returns Corey[m]1: only the sections of the code that actually need it keep a local reference frabbit: rubenwardy: Corey[m]1: will try both oil_boi: Damn I wish hybriddog was here frabbit: Corey[m]1: with nodebox i have 8 tiles frabbit: and firelike is like plantliek but with 4x the texture on each side of the node in addition frabbit: werent the torches before 3d torches came in this plantlike style? frabbit: or were they just a flat sheet of paper rubenwardy: torchlike frabbit: yeah thats what i mean with the paper then ^_^ frabbit: is there a possiblity to just rotate a drawtype frabbit: in every dirction frabbit: *direction frabbit: and maybe set two types on one node frabbit: or better two textures with different rotatet drawtype frabbit: for the same node Corey[m]1: Well I believe you can composite textures together, as for rotating drawtypes, would be a nice feature, but sadly, I don't think you can currently, there is always meshes though rubenwardy: you can let nearly any node be rotated using paramtype2 frabbit: and will the use of 2d torches instead of 3d ones increase the performance? Corey[m]1: isn't that facedir though? Corey[m]1: rubenwardy: I think someone forgot to mention in the lua_api that safe_file_write requires trusted_mod rubenwardy: where are you writing to? rubenwardy: you can only write to the world directory at run time Corey[m]1: I didn't really specify a path, I thought it defaulted to the world directory rubenwardy: it doesn't Corey[m]1: safe_file_write("file.txt", blob) rubenwardy: it defaults to the current directroy Corey[m]1: lame rubenwardy: minetest.get_worldpath() .. "/file.txt" Corey[m]1: Thanks oil_boi: Man I wish you could do a simulation to see if something is going to hit something before moving it dennisjenkins: Is there a way to reduce the frequency of dungeons in mgv7, valleys and carpathian? Or to at least prevent partial dungeons from being exposed by the surface terrain? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix wrong use of guiScalingImageButton in formspecs buttons (#10094) 13ee6c499 https://git.io/JfpKu (152020-06-24T09:35:06Z) scr267: @BuckarooBanzai, ah sorry for the misunderstanding, I'm actually using the areas mod. hisforever: Hi I'm trying to set up digtron to lay track. but I know that the inventory , so there is a comand for giveme advantrain_dtrack:st this is wrong I can't remember the right command? Corey[m]1: Extex: Tried converting the position to a string and setting it in the formspec as the default value of thr field you're trying to send? oil_boi: sfan5, coal lives again! https://i.imgur.com/K3NIGgC.png eyekay49: I had translated a bunch of strings (31%) to hindi in the weblate site in april and i thought it will be added automatically. But i just built 5.3-dev and it isnt included. Do i need to submit it somewhere? (sorry I am new to this) sfan5: !tell oil_boi does it set mobs on fire if you hit them? :D MinetestBot: sfan5: yeah, sure, whatever acagastya: Hello, Calinou. I am a volunteer editor on Wikimedia Commons. I wanted to know what is the license of this file: https://wiki.minetest.net/File:C55-2.jpg acagastya: Is it under a free Creative Commons license? frabbit: some forum mod here? i cant register, it gave me "The solution you provided was incorrect" and now additional to that: "You have exceeded the maximum number of registration attempts for this session. Please try again later." frabbit: my choosen username isnt in use frabbit: ive checked that sfan5: this might be disappointing but have you tried just waiting some time? sfan5: alternatively if you have the ability to reset your router to get a new IP from your ISP that probably works too frabbit: waiting? frabbit: yeah tahts 4 sure, but why did i get that first message? frabbit: before i got the second? frabbit: "The solution you provided was incorrect" frabbit: there where no incorrect fields left sfan5: I have no idea frabbit: i first tried to bash against github in github field, but i cleared that field and the message was still there after hitting submit sfan5: "solution" should refer to a text captcha frabbit: wtf?! so i need google! sfan5: ? frabbit: ive saw that crap in umatrix sfan5: not google's captcha frabbit: why they do implementing google? sfan5: something like "who is the creator of minetest?" and then you have a field to enter an answer sfan5: at least that's how it looked last time I checked frabbit: nah cant see anything like that and minetest.net domain stuff is all allowed frabbit: but i block google sfan5: okay visiting the site now shows a recaptcha frabbit: and i wont unblock it... frabbit: from where? sfan5: recaptcha is the name of google's solution frabbit: thats silly Taoki: https://i.imgur.com/1qs4o8d.png Anyone know what I must change in my mapgen settings to avoid hard lines like this with Mapgen v7? Seems like some bugs are still in there. frabbit: there are free and easy solutions for that frabbit: without google sfan5: Taoki: this looks like changing mapgen settings (e.g. seed) between world loads Taoki: Huh, that's odd. It happens while explore a new area in a single session too. Taoki: And I do use "seed = params.seed" in minetest.register_on_mapgen_init Taoki: Yeah actually it seems to happen whenever I reload the world... weird. Taoki: https://pastebin.com/FZgPXCwC Does anything appear wrong with this? sfan5: maybe just comment out the seed line? Taoki: Thanks, seems to be working. Taoki: Seems to have worked for now, thanks. Taoki: Picking up a game I started making 4 years ago, was still in early stages. Forgot I actually created a slow three growth algorithm :) frabbit: sfan5: i saw that u are moderator too at forums, can u please activate my account? frabbit: i dont want to use that google shit sfan5: I don't see an account with a name similar to yours Krock: I don't think moderators can do that Krock: ...or? frabbit: sfan5: i cant get over that submit process frabbit: thats why frabbit: i need to solve that google captcha frabbit: but i wont sfan5: well if your account doesn't make it into the database then I also can't activate it Krock: there's also Tor, which could be interesting to you as well frabbit: sfan5: thats bad... please remove this google shit, there are other ways to prevent bots from register. like this one devuan is doing for example: https://dev1galaxy.org/register.php frabbit: Krock: how do tor avoiding usig google? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Document deprecation of *_hovered and *_pressed styles (#10092) 13f7c7899 https://git.io/JfxpE (152020-06-23T16:59:02Z) frabbit: Krock: also u need to enable js, googles js, tor is not safe with js (and maybe it isnt even without...) frabbit: with js ur ip can be leaked also when u using tor sfan5: frabbit: deciding which captcha runs on the forum isn't my responsibility, I don't admin it frabbit: and even if all that were not the fact: i dont support google in any way frabbit: sfan5: ok frabbit: so i will need to write celereon55 frabbit: *sigh* frabbit: celeron55: ot can u do something when i contact u here? =) frabbit: that would avoid me from mailing u celeron55: i don't have time or money for playing around with bots and google does it efficiently and for free so it's an obvious choice celeron55: i'll be waiting for your written offer of maintaining an effective non-google captcha for me for the next 10 years celeron55: anyway i can create you an account if you need it rubenwardy: perhaps there could be a message to contact someone if google is not an option? celeron55: altough, i don't really have any special way of creating an account, i'll be just filling the registration form and captcha for you celeron55: so you might just as well pick anyone you trust frabbit: celeron55: doesnt make any sense... then i could do it by myself frabbit: ceralso i suggests one possible way without google frabbit: 19:00 < frabbit> sfan5: thats bad... please remove this google shit, there are other ways to prevent bots from register. like this one devuan is doing for example: https://dev1galaxy.org/register.php celeron55: i have had questions like that in the registration form before and they don't help in the long term celeron55: you'd have to be changing them all the time frabbit: changing what? celeron55: and then some people don't get them and ask for the answers celeron55: and it's just not good celeron55: the questions frabbit: lol u can use simple question like "grass is .....?" Krock: when I signed up, I think the question was about MESE celeron55: this is a big forum, some advertisers seem to be targeting it seriously enough to figure out questions like that celeron55: or spammers celeron55: whatever you like to call them frabbit: no u can save several questions and only one of they will appear randomly on every single registration sfan5: we've had that before and multiple russian spam posts got through every week celeron55: i hate google too, but i still use the captcha; i think that should tell you a lot celeron55: (altough it's no the company i hate the most, that spot goes to facebook probably) celeron55: not* frabbit: sfan5: sounds more like u havent enough questions and bad blacklists for ips domains whatever.. dev1 doesnt have these problems and i can guarantee u that there are many people and institutions that wnat to see devuan dieing... frabbit: celeron55: ok but there are alternatives for these kind of captchas then frabbit: ive once read sopmething about that celeron55: "Total number of posts: 21,369" ok checked... not a big forum frabbit: will search my bookmarks and notes frabbit: celeron55: devuan? frabbit: doesnt matter how much post tehre are... sfan5: e.g. cloudflare uses https://www.hcaptcha.com/ frabbit: the devuan project is a target of attacks since it was created... frabbit: theres still a big war ou there frabbit: *out celeron55: i guess hcaptcha could work celeron55: can frabbit review it and see if it passes his captcha review process? rubenwardy: lol, minetest has 16x as many posts rubenwardy: 16.6 rubenwardy: doesn't make that small though frabbit: rubenwardy: what are u talking about posts? i dont get it... o_0 frabbit: also interesting article about captcha stuff: https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/1/18205610/google-captcha-ai-robot-human-difficult-artificial-intelligence Krock: !c 354796 / 21369 MinetestBot: 16.603303851373486 Krock: though, that might be a counter value, rather than row count rubenwardy: implying that deleted posts are counted? Krock: difference are the removed posts rubenwardy: in which case, spam attacks would be rubenwardy: !c 100 * 6128 / 354796 MinetestBot: 1.7271897090158852 rubenwardy: I have 1.73% of all posts rubenwardy: used to be higher :'( Krock: !c 1000 * 4522 / 354796 MinetestBot: 12.745352258762782 Krock: I have 12.7%° of all posts rubenwardy: extra zero there frabbit: and sorry but im tired of discussion about using google or whatever shitty companys stuff, if a webpage forces me to allow these "services" then its a sign to me that this webpage dont want me as a member. np for me, but in this case it hurts, cause i wanted to contact some modders and reporting some bugs Krock: > per mille Krock: makes the number look larger :3 Krock: frabbit: okay that's fine Krock: you can still report bugs using email or github rubenwardy: frabbit: and thanks for raising the issue MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: fix maxAspectRatio (should be float) (#10080) 13646af2e https://git.io/JfpeJ (152020-06-23T18:00:34Z) celeron55: it's interesting that while many people are flocking into discord, still people like frabbit exist rubenwardy: takes all types frabbit: Krock: reporting via mail isnt possible when the person who creates a mod doesnt leave an email somewhere, also it isnt desired often to report bugs or make feature requests that way when tehres a forum thread for that... and github.. well thats a thing i couldnt understand at all, why mt project is still hosting on a page that is owned by micro$oft, another one from the GAFAM and in this special case frabbit: also the developer of minecraft... thats totally weird... frabbit: rubenwardy: was that satire? =( rubenwardy: what's satire? Krock: rubenwardy: basically long sarcastic talks, but less intense and still somehow provocative rubenwardy: lol rubenwardy: I meant: what was satire, not what is satire frabbit: celeron55: espacially the so called digital natives does use discord, but these young people arent digital natives, the are digital puppets, they only know colorful buttons and stuff and even some programming languages prevent the students of that lang. to learn something deeper. if it will stay that way, computing will be only available for a small elite, while the rest just consuming their stuff like frabbit: zombies... Krock: what's is ambiguous Krock: *what's ambiguous Ingar: frabbit: it's all just a concequence of how corps programmed society the generations before frabbit: Ingar: right frabbit: but they still do Ingar: you old ? frabbit: the less people know about whatever, the easier it is to control these people, thats an old digusting law... frabbit: Ingar: hmm.. depends xD rubenwardy: Governments definitely use distractions to keep people from the real issues, but I don't think it extends as far as "colorful buttons and stuff" frabbit: i thing over 30 is old (where my youth has gone?) frabbit: *think frabbit: rubenwardy: what do u mean frabbit: these things hiding the commands Ingar: frabbit: but here we are, chatting on a # dedicated to escapism ;) frabbit: and it isnt needed to learn computing with buttons first, u can always start with terminal stuff frabbit: Ingar: with # u mean channel? Ingar: frabbit: I do, I'm old Ingar: @ is ops rubenwardy: oh right, you're talking literally about software rather than a conspiracy frabbit: ive seen that adorable girl whos starting learn computing on a terminal: https://invidio.us/watch?v=WTb2EAxLyF0 frabbit: Ingar: ok =) im about a year at irc now frabbit: rubenwardy: conspiracy? frabbit: thats for idiots Ingar: frabbit: now you made me realize I've been on IRC for 25 years. I need a bottle. or in this particular instance, dinner. ..laters :) frabbit: ut how to earn alot of money? by increasing influence and with that comes power too... so its a circle of desaster that could be find in any big corp... rubenwardy: I've been on IRC for 8 years frabbit: Ingar: have a nice dinner then =) Krock: roughly 7 years... still a newbie :) frabbit: rubenwardy: =) if i have know that this cool thing exists earlier, i would be here since several years too rubenwardy: Ingar: you've been on IRC for longer than I've been alive celeron55: i've been on IRC for about 18 years, and to brighten up frabbit's day, MT was first published on IRC just under 10 years ago and still has an IRC presence Fulgen: IRC is nice. celeron55: so don't worry we're here to stay celeron55: it's people like frabbit who will understand why, as the discord folk will never get it rubenwardy: I really like IRC, it's beautifully simple celeron55: it's what it says on the lid rubenwardy: pain in terms of user-experience, but that's maybe a benefit Krock: direct image upload would be nice sometimes,though rubenwardy: yeah, that's one pain Fulgen: indeed rubenwardy: I have a python script to upload images to my short web domain for that rubenwardy: rwdy.uk Krock: IRC clients can take care of that, though. frabbit: celeron55: lol on irc? =D nice rubenwardy: using SCP rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/rubenimageupload rubenwardy: Yeah, it's possible for an IRC client to have support for uploading to something like imgur frabbit: celeron55: so next release is coming as irce download, peer-to-peer? frabbit: ;) Krock: rubenwardy: well, a bash script might work just as well in .local/bin/ celeron55: well probably not, but feel free to mirror it rubenwardy: sure rubenwardy: I wasn't as experienced with bash when I wrote that frabbit: yeah i will on notabug rubenwardy: that is also installed in .local/bin frabbit: really need to fill my repos there celeron55: MT hasn't always been on github, i first hosted it on bitbucket frabbit: btw. why isnt mt changing to notabug.org? celeron55: and it hasn't always used git, it originally used mercurial frabbit: is it missing any features the development needs? celeron55: these things will change when needed, and at the moment it's not needed Krock: the only platform that stayed as-is is sourceforge celeron55: i don't fear the name microsoft, i fear the shitty products they do celeron55: so when github turns shitty, MT will move celeron55: not before rubenwardy: I thought it was on source forge? rubenwardy: I've moved to GitLab as of a few months frabbit: celeron55: hmm ok, but every single project makes that site bigger, even after alot of great projects switched to gitlab after m$ take the place rubenwardy: also, I dislike notabug frabbit: rubenwardy: why? rubenwardy: they have a broken CSS theme frabbit: rubenwardy: o_0 rubenwardy: and I don't especially trust such a small community to host our code official rubenwardy: wait, are you involved with it / freepost? frabbit: err better trust a small community then a big corp... frabbit: but maybe thats the spirit of ur generation.... rubenwardy: the big corp is more likely to have a backup strategy and less likely to have single people in position of power, being abusive * frabbit: can see a dystopic future rubenwardy: you can also trust the big corp to be consistent - looking for profit frabbit: rubenwardy: backup ur stuff on ur own Krock: backup scripts are nice. they can be self-containing. celeron55: frabbit: we are not like some projects that don't have their own domain or anything to fall back to in the case github topples over frabbit: outsourcing backup to any service no matter if small group of cool people or big corp is a very bad idea rubenwardy: that too, I'd prefer self-hosting to a small git host celeron55: if our only web presence was github.com then yes, that's a problem rubenwardy: it's a matter of trust frabbit: celeron55: i agree celeron55: but we have minetest.net which can point to anywhere for source hosting and issues frabbit: rubenwardy: well i dont trust m$ and there are a huge bunch of reasons for that... celeron55: currently it's github, but given github isn't viable tomorrow, tomorrow it's something else frabbit: celeron55: ok =) frabbit: so... whats velocity then hahaha xD frabbit: thers a bug in whinny mod with it frabbit: its some kind of move entitys or something? rubenwardy: Well, I've moved to GitLab because of Microsoft and other things. I think that the loss of contributors like pgimeno is justification to move rubenwardy: I with GitLab would improve their UI though FeXoR: (Uh, that IRC SCP imageupload is nice. Thanks for the tip ;) rubenwardy: yw rubenwardy: I was overthinking image upload programs until someone suggested SCP rubenwardy: and a web server FeXoR: Krock: Sourceforge has changed dramatically! Some years back one could just download the stuff without any "We value your privacy" exclamations and even use direct download links. That's all hidden. And in between there where installers of other software implanted in the installers of abandoned projects by sourceforge itself. That's why 0 A.D. hosts it's own repo now and many others mofed away, too ;) rubenwardy: sourceforge is one consideration that makes me about a library or program rubenwardy: they're typically outdated and suck * rubenwardy: looks at Irrlicht FeXoR: (And since sourceforge wasn't exactly small when their business model changed I doubt the "Large companies are stable" at least in a way predictable by the projects :D But, yes, I guess one can trust them to want to make money ... and that to not have the same goal as the projects :p frabbit: hmm.. Sparky isnt here on irc, also theres no mail: https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=11650 frabbit: and whinny mod was uloaded to forum site only, so no repo site too rubenwardy: I've sent him a message, not sure if he'll see it frabbit: rubenwardy: thats very kind of u, but not a long term solution... =( frabbit: btw. because minetest.net is using google this here is not complete: https://forum.minetest.net/ucp.php?mode=privacy frabbit: please update this then frabbit: i will register now... man that all sucks... but theres someone who will be very happy when the horses coming back to my server and i will be too * frabbit: is thinking if it wouldnt be better to be a blackhat taht attacks GAFAM with other bh... frabbit: i really wnat alphabet to die... frabbit: *want Krock: FeXoR: well, from what I can see, it still sucks FeXoR: Sourceforge? Or 0 A.D.? Or SVN? :D Krock: FeXoR: sourceforge and also a bit of SVN frabbit: sourceforge? that site that has delivered adware to u once, when downloading stuff? * FeXoR: thinks git sucks for art or other binaries frabbit: and manipulating downloads... and.... FeXoR: Yep, that sourceforge ;) frabbit: awesome... not Calinou: Git works ok for art if you never change it :P Calinou: (or if it's small enough not to be a problem, which is mostly the case in Minetest) Calinou: FeXoR: direct download links still exist on SourceForge, but they'll only be obeyed if your user agent is something like "curl" Calinou: otherwise, it will switch to the non-direct download page FeXoR: Yea, I remember having fiddled arround a but to get it to work :p FeXoR: *bit frabbit: what about: https://savannah.gnu.org/ frabbit: this is how a repo can look like there: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/adonthell frabbit: pretty clean and also quick to use rubenwardy: we need pull requests and a good issues tracker rubenwardy: the latter can be done with bugzilla, and the former with some other kind of review software rubenwardy: but being integrated into the git host would be good frabbit: rubenwardy: bugtracker is here: https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?group=adonthell gh00p: What's the best way to change clothing/skins? I see a wardrobe mod and a clothing mod mentioned in forums from 2005, but is there something else? rubenwardy: lol, 2005 rubenwardy: time travelling modders frabbit: BackToTheFuture? =D rubenwardy: I'm not sure there are any modern ones Krock: !mod skindb MinetestBot: Krock: fetching all skins from skin db [skindb] by addi - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9098 - https://bitbucket.org/kingarthursteam/skindb Krock: not that skindb frabbit: h00p use simple skins from tenplus1 Krock: gh00p: https://krock-works.uk.to/minetest/modSearch.php?st=0&at=0&q=skins frabbit: gh00p: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/simple_skins Krock: https://content.minetest.net/packages/?q=skins frabbit: also i like PilzAdams simple skin mod, but with that u cant change skins ingame frabbit: in both mods theres a folder where u can simple put skins into rubenwardy: in 5.3.0, you'll be able to change skins at run time rubenwardy: like - add skins frabbit: with PilzAdams mod u can chain them to a specific playername rubenwardy: tenplus1's has a dialog where you select an existing skin frabbit: gh00p: mod from PilzAdam -> https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3587 frabbit: ive tested both and both are working with mt 5.2.0 acagastya: Hi, it is me agains: a volunteer editor on Wikimedia project. celeron55, can you please clarify one thing about your interview with (French) Wikinews editor AirSThib on IRC? celeron55: hi, no problem gh00p: Krock, frabbit: thanks, I'll do some reading! acagastya: Since it is potentially privacy violating information, is it okay if I ask in a PM, celeron55? celeron55: PM is fine acagastya: Thank you. gh00p: Oh, Krock is the bot. Thanks, frabbit! :) frabbit: gh00p: yw =) frabbit: gh00p: no, Krock is not a bot xD rubenwardy: I've never seen him solve a capture rubenwardy: *captcha frabbit: lol rubenwardy: I've met him in real life, but I didn't see him solve a capture rubenwardy: could be an Android rubenwardy: err -A+a frabbit: xD celeron55: your meeting-in-life protocol should include solving a captcha celeron55: should add it to the checklist rubenwardy: lol * FeXoR: envied Andonthell to only have one bug :p rubenwardy: \o/ rubenwardy: I'm still dreaming for MeseCon rubenwardy: the minetest convention SoylentCow: that would be fin rubenwardy: If celeron55 refuses to come, I'll have to hire kidnappers SoylentCow: lol, fun rubenwardy: joking FeXoR: frabbit: I can't find a web page to browse through the code on Savannah. Could you give me a hint? :) FeXoR: (The Andonthell Savannah page I mean) celeron55: rubenwardy: obviously in finland, right? rubenwardy: how big is your back yard? celeron55: pretty big, thousands of square meters rubenwardy: do you live in the middle of no where? celeron55: yes, right there rubenwardy: I wouldn't be against finland, wondering about connectivity and organisation frabbit: FeXoR: maybe this: https://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/adonthell.git rubenwardy: there's a direct flight from bristol to helinski celeron55: the closest to me you can get on railway or bus from helsinki is about 40km away celeron55: so say hello to your chartered bus driver, celeron55 rubenwardy: lol frabbit: lol celeron55: i have an MPV that can fit 8 that i'm planning to convert to electric but before that it could work fine rubenwardy: the convention would need to be done very close to a city, or some connected place rubenwardy: I was thinking france or germany, as it's central europe and there are quite a few core devs in that region rubenwardy: I was talking to CERN about doing it there, they have connections. Geneva is super expensive though, I wouldn't want to pay for accomodation there rubenwardy: this is a bad time to be talking about conventions and international travel :D frabbit: rubenwardy: im sure next year there will be a vaccine celeron55: i feel it would feel like a funeral though, as i'm not developing anymore rubenwardy: lol rubenwardy: doesn't matter, I wager that you are still the last person to touch the majority of code rubenwardy: let alone the author of the majority of code frabbit: later people =) rubenwardy: plus, "not developing anymore" has an easy fix :) celeron55: i guess germany could work, i would probably include it in an europe road trip i'd do celeron55: planning one anyway at some point celeron55: was thinking this summer but have to see about the restrictions rubenwardy: would be too soon for a mesecon imo rubenwardy: a road trip though, sure celeron55: and the real twist on the road trip, of course, is doing it with a DIY electric conversion vehicle rubenwardy: :O rubenwardy: if you break down in germany, then at least there's good beer celeron55: well, i don't drink alcohol rubenwardy: fair celeron55: and you pretty much can't have fun with me nowadays unless it involves wrenches, rust and high voltage celeron55: so, i might as well just road trip through all the core devs front doors, booping each one on the nose before continuing rubenwardy: loool rubenwardy: and then run off into the distance, leaving them wondering who you are and/or how you got their address celeron55: i once hand painted wooden cubes with minetest themed pictures celeron55: i still have them somewhere celeron55: that's going to be the hottest stuff rubenwardy: Jeija has IRL mesecon blocks rubenwardy: He's an electronic engineer celeron55: anyway, MT's 10 year anniversary is in october this year rubenwardy: :O eerungur: i should 3d print some minetest mobs. celeron55: i'm pretty sure i made the first .zip on 2010-10-10 celeron55: that's a good date to release a project, easy to remember eerungur: where could i get the 3d model files from? rubenwardy: minetest doesn't have mobs rubenwardy: the old 0.3 mobs are 2D Corey[m]1: I.. don't think minetest has mobs Corey[m]1: Damn rubenwardy beat me to it rubenwardy: the most popular mob mod is mobs redo rubenwardy: !mod mobs MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo rubenwardy: The Minetest logo could be a cool 3d print eerungur: rubenwardy: good idea. rubenwardy: fun fact: it's not possible to build the logo to scale in Minetest accurately rubenwardy: well, you could make it massive eth01: interesting project folks * eth01: has nothing valuable to add apart from it looks interesting :p rubenwardy: lol thanks eth01: My project would be happy to donate some hosting though for your project if you would like ...we run an open source platform and offer hosting to open source projects for free. rubenwardy: celeron55 would be the person to talk to for that eth01: coolthx Warr1024: "not possible to build the logo to scale" <-- mesh nodes :-D rubenwardy: cheater Corey[m]1: Were there any recent changes to the hypertext element in formspecs? Corey[m]1: I just noticed that some of my old formspecs are jumbled unto a single line, they used to be multiple lines rubenwardy: I don't think so rubenwardy: check LF vs CRLF Corey[m]1: one sec, I even had a comment in my code about the odd old behaviour rubenwardy: do note that the hypertext element is experimental, in the future a new line won't be a new line in the element Corey[m]1: hope you don't mind a link drop: https://github.com/IceDragon200/mt-yatm/blob/master/yatm_codex/items/codex.lua#L54-L57 Corey[m]1: primarily my last comment: "But in all honestly it's like the inventory based sizing doesn't even apply to hypertext" rubenwardy: what rubenwardy: hypertext uses its own line spacing Corey[m]1: Yep, that worked before I pulled the latest Corey[m]1: And where is this line spacing configured? rubenwardy: it's not Corey[m]1: or what was the sane default? Corey[m]1: welp, I should have noted, the note under hypertext in the lua_api "* **Note**: This element is currently unstable and subject to change." Corey[m]1: So, expected behaviour I guess P: rubenwardy: lol, does your mod require mod security to be disabled? rubenwardy: that's a nope from me rubenwardy: I suggest making a simpler example and opening an issue Corey[m]1: well it requires being permitted to use some native extensions outside of that, you can view the whole code, compile it yourself and run it, I have no interest in enslaving anyone's computer to mine bitcoins P: rubenwardy: hypertext hasn't been changed in 5.3.0 rubenwardy: it's the same as in 5.2.0 Corey[m]1: I honestly don't remember what version I was running when it 'worked' as intended Corey[m]1: Since I build from master Corey[m]1: but whatever changed, I think it's new behaviour might be sane again lsbigworld: Hello. lsbigworld: I was wondering about possibly setting up a server. Emerald2: Have you read https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server ? lsbigworld: https://minetest.org/hosting.html lsbigworld: I am not able to get the hardware at the moment, and this seems like a better way to go. Emerald2: People who don't host at home tend to get a VPS. Emerald2: And the less experienced ones use something like minecity online. They seem to be pretty good. SoylentCow: wow, minetest.org, it's like taking a sight-seeing trip in a crazy person's brain dennisjenkins: lol dennisjenkins: wow... most of the links don't work either. dennisjenkins: Was this a fork of minetest.net ? SoylentCow: look at this photo, it's an effing acid trip: https://minetest.org/images/oldcoder.jpg kb1000: why do so many people ask about that recently? Quiark: .org is higher up on google ranking rubenwardy: Only on certain phrasings texmex: That simply cannot be because OC is an SEO expert. Rather .net sucks at it. rubenwardy: Contributions welcome rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix HTTP API not being available in async mainmenu (#10086) 134cb18d4 https://git.io/JfAM8 (152020-06-22T13:40:04Z) guzzi: minetest.org. lol dude forked everything. looks like a classic move of someone trying to steal a project guzzi: aka openvpn. guzzi: openvpn didn't copywrite the name and basically the entire project got stolen guzzi: stayin far away from that SoylentCow: don't play the page rank game, ferget it SoylentCow: things like better documentation may be more useful, and significant exposure on sites like wikipedia.org SoylentCow: i would volunteer to write a wikipedia article, but someone else has to post it rubenwardy: There's a draft article SoylentCow: where rubenwardy: It keeps getting rejecting though SoylentCow: it just needs to be improved, i saw the deleted versions, i agree with mods rubenwardy: It needs more citations rubenwardy: Despite having some from Google and CERN SoylentCow: yeah i can do research, i doubt it would be hard to make an acceptable article rubenwardy: The draft is at Draft:Minetest SoylentCow: you know what, i don't need to see the draft, i'll just use a good vg article as a template anyway SoylentCow: kk lol i will take a look MinetestBot: 02[git] 04adrido -> 03minetest/minetest: Disable pgsql in VS 2019 workflow 13d7a2113 https://git.io/JfAdL (152020-06-22T16:18:15Z) scr267: Does anyone know of a bug or hack where a player can successfully dig a node in a protected area on 5.0.1 ? Krock: usually caused by other mods Krock: also by falling nodes (buildable_to = false) only scr267: falling nodes? Krock: falling nodes scr267: Are there falling nodes in minetest? Krock: yes. they're entities rendered as nodes. place sand and remove the bottom node, for example scr267: ah true scr267: Are you aware of any specific mod that could cause this? scr267: I can see players logged as 'tried to dig ... at protected position' in the logs, but then the node goes missing scr267: not always, just some cases. Krock: No sorry. Check for automatic digging tools, for example drills or lasers scr267: ok thanks :) Krock: is the node really missing, or is it a visual glitch? confirm this by placing another node on the same spot scr267: Its missing scr267: I'll check the inventory of the players to see if they have these tools... I have plenty of technic mods on my server, so there are probably more than a few tools that can do that I suppose. scr267: thanks for pointing me in a direction. Krock: also update mods, in case they're a bit old scr267: yep thanks BuckarooBanzai: scr267: are you using the "protector" (redo) mod? if so then there is a possibility to remove protected nodes: https://github.com/pandorabox-io/pandorabox.io/issues/503 BuckarooBanzai: its caused by a bit elevated lag and slow map-loading, the result of "minetest.find_nodes_in_area" does not pick up all the surrounding protector nodes and gives a false back to "minetest.is_protected" BuckarooBanzai: this is a pretty ugly workaround but worked for the moment: https://github.com/pandorabox-io/pandorabox_custom/commit/4d0a60b3e8439f742fd30712252aa4c43b9f624c oil_boi: sfan5 what was that thing you showed me like weeks ago that had mob spawners? sfan5: huh? oil_boi: It automatically spawned mob spawners into dungeons sfan5: Minetest Game's dungeon_loot places chests sfan5: the same code could be reused to place mob spawners oil_boi: Oh ok ty ty oil_boi: How do liquids calculate which direction to set the flow texture? oil_boi: Like, where is the source code? Or is there an api element to get the direction of the flow? sfan5: my guess would be from the neighbor with the higher level to the one with the lower level sfan5: code is probably in either content_mapblock.cpp or mapblock_mesh.cpp rubenwardy: !mod [builtin_item] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Item features [builtin_item] by PilzAdam - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3188 - https://github.com/PilzAdam/builtin_item rubenwardy: err - the tenplus1 version rubenwardy: makes dropped item follow liquid flow oil_boi: rubenwardy, https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/builtin_item? rubenwardy: yeah oil_boi: I thought I'd just slam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10091 into there SoylentCow: remember that creepy american army game? i heard raking up stats there would result in an interview with various 3-letter agencies SoylentCow: god..... mt SoylentCow: just so you know, this is #xonotic chat spillover, i am really sorry, i just can't help myself... SoylentCow: real-time gameified environments, with toon-style shaders for walls & jar-jar-binx relatives rendered in place of soft targets, piu piu piu, player doesn't even have to know if it's real or simulated in each instance, that can be kept random to deal with anexiety and tilting appguru: don't believe everything you find on the net SoylentCow: mt gain... SoylentCow: oh no, i played it a bit, my brother did quite a bit appguru: doesn't prove your claim that "raking up stats results in an interview with 3-letter agencies" SoylentCow: this is a pure conjecture, sure, but i doubt anyone can do better, because these intrviews are classified anyway appguru: it's a pointless conjecture if it can't be (dis)proven SoylentCow: i disagree: a more clear example of such a "pointless conjecture" is a chinese national saying that government covers up covid numbers SoylentCow: it has a clear political goal, and is almost certainly correct, but there's no practical way to prove it in a public forum SoylentCow: anyway, all this garbage rumor stuff was intended for #quakenet, i apologise again :D oil_boi: Also minetest.get_liquid_flow_dir(pos) would return nil if not flowing liquid oil_boi: Maybe I'll give it a try on my Linux install Zughy: hey there; is there any way to change the button graphical aspect (they're item buttons)? https://i.imgur.com/JRZb908.png sfan5: you can disable the button from being rendered I think rubenwardy: Zughy: style[name;border=false] rubenwardy: (requires 5.1+) rubenwardy: also, that's pretty Zughy: ty rubenwardy Krock: yay! Pixel art Zughy: uhm, is it normal that it doesn't work? I went for "style_type[image_button,item_image_button;border=false]" and nothing happens. Also, if I declare it before the size, nothing gets rendered Zughy: Better said: only the background Zughy: I'm on 5.2 rubenwardy: semicolon rubenwardy: oh wait rubenwardy: the comma notation requires 5.3.0 rubenwardy: The header of a formspec must be specified in a certain order, and adding normal elements will cause parse errors rubenwardy: style is a normal element rubenwardy: header = size, position, etc Zughy: yep, not even "style[*;border=false]" rubenwardy: * is also a 5.3.0 only thing Zughy: AAAAAAAAAA >:[ rubenwardy: style_type[image_button;border=false] style_type[item_image_button;border=false] Zughy: it doesn't work either rubenwardy: also, are you sure item_image_button doesn't inherit from image_button? Zughy: I.. haven't the faintest? rubenwardy: it doesn't rubenwardy: Have you put this before any of the buttons? Zughy: yup rubenwardy: any error messages? rubenwardy: might be useful to see the formspec Zughy: no, that's me being stupid with the index in table.insert rubenwardy: +code Zughy: I probably know how to fix it, pardon Zughy: yes, totally me, it works now. Thanks :) Zughy: ..I didn't want to leave, I genuinely crashed. Idk if the message arrived but I fixed it, thanks :) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Zughy: welllll... I'm kind of afraid to ask, because I fear another 5.3.0 feature, buuut... Zughy: how about changing the background image? Because border=false + bgimg=something seems quite buggy Zughy: of the button ofc rubenwardy: idk, that may also require 5.3 rubenwardy: good news! It'll be released in a few days Zughy: oh don't worry, I'm heavily lurking on PRs and issues :^] Zughy: even if I don't understand half of them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ scr267: BuckarooBanzai, Hi - thanks a lot for the response! I'll take a look at that!!! :) Extex: I have a problem Extex: I need to give the position of a node through a minetest.show_form Extex: Oh wait I think I figured it out lol Extex: Nope nvm still stuck lol Extex: I need to pick up the position from the register_on_player_receive_fields MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Update nodes papyrus can grow on, include default:dry_dirt (#2705) 13b2d0f0a https://git.io/JfNXa (152020-06-21T22:24:56Z) oil_boi: is minetest.register_entity written in lua or c++? kaeza: C++ IIRC, but grep is your friend :) kaeza: also hi rubenwardy: It's Lua oil_boi_: Hi kaeza oil_boi_: wait what oil_boi: hm oil_boi: it's lua oil_boi: IT'S A MIRACLE SoylentCow: lua is pretty @#$%^&* sweet MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: fix TMPFolder path (#10052) 13a2199bf https://git.io/JfbK2 (152020-06-20T10:06:30Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add warning when disabling secure.enable_security (#9943) 130f1f8e4 https://git.io/JfbXT (152020-06-20T12:21:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: Fix asset upgrade by renaming license file (#10073) 13e99415e https://git.io/JfbMf (152020-06-20T13:52:24Z) frabbit: hey people of nodes =) frabbit: whats that all about this "Final Minetest"? frabbit: some guy who forked mt and now maintaining it alone? kb1000: uhh... not really IIRC. just make sure not to run it... frabbit: if someone not knowing what im talking about: https://minetest.org/ frabbit: kb1000: ok what then? frabbit: is that maleware? kb1000: from what I heard on the unofficial Minetest discord, yes. frabbit: o_0 frabbit: is there any warning on minetest.net ? frabbit: if not, it should be... frabbit: cause inattentive people could confound minetest.net and minetest.org frabbit: also would be good to claim such domains frabbit: minetest.org minetest.com and so on rubenwardy: We sought advice about this, and the response was to not post a warning appguru: "Final Minetest" is a scam ran by OldCoder. It is frowned upon by The Minetest Project (the official Minetest). rubenwardy: It legitimacies it by acknowledging it rubenwardy: I'm not sure if it's malware, but the author is unsavoury. We banned him 3 years ago for his behaviour frabbit: rubenwardy: isee frabbit: *i see appguru: It is a scam either way rubenwardy: Seizing a domain requires $1000 and a trademark frabbit: appguru: yeah probably frabbit: rubenwardy: oh... =( appguru: Both of which we don't have :P frabbit: https://minetest.org/notices.html -> 3. About OldCoder. frabbit: espacially: Jobs have included: frabbit: doesnt sound likable what this guy did... frabbit: * Fighter Jet software. Google for Northrop Grumman MILES Project. frabbit: imho bad to do such things but even worse to be proud of it... kb1000: sounds very possible that it's not even true tho frabbit: kb1000: dunno. maybe it isnt but to me a person who writes that proud of coding for the "war machine" isnt a good person frabbit: even if its a lie appguru: there is not much wrong with implementing software for use in war frabbit: appguru: thats yout pov not mine frabbit: war is bad. always. everywhere. frabbit: *your appguru: bullshit is bad too frabbit: but anyway oft appguru: massive overgeneralization frabbit: no bullshit is good to let plants grow =P appguru: Also skilled does not imply sane frabbit: what? frabbit: who are you talking about? frabbit: anyway not want to waste time with you, just wanted to know whats that "final minetest" kb1000: nothing you should ever use. FeXoR1: Hi everybody and a big thanks for the developers working on Minetest ;) leo_rockway: hello FeXoR1: Can anyone give me information about what https://minetest.org/features.html is ? Is it a fork? Where is the full source? What's the history leading to this? Thanks in advance ;) leo_rockway: FeXoR1: I didn't know about it before today, but somebody asked this literally a few hours ago: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2020-06-20 appguru: FeXoR1: It's a scam. Krock: FeXoR1: ignore and use .net FeXoR1: Yes, I will not use it for now. No I don't agree it has to be a scam. Not at all will I ignore it. Where is the full source? FeXoR1: AFAICT there is only the engine source provided. Isn't that violating GPL? leo_rockway: FeXoR1: from what I can see, yes. However, who's going to sue to enforce it? appguru: minetest.org is a scam for the very fact that it claims to be the real and "final" Minetest while it clearly is a fork FeXoR1: (I am part of the 0 A.D. team and we had similar issues with forks not providing access to the code. I do not like that at all.) appguru: minetest.org indisputably is a scam, claiming to be official leo_rockway: FeXoR1: I should try 0 A.D. again. It's been literally years since the last time I tried it and it was looking real good even years ago. Krock: 0 A.D.? nice :D Krock: played it a few times using AoE 2 strategies, but didn't turn out to work so well FeXoR1: "final" is just a word, appguru. I think it's a sign of arrogance and misleading,, yes. But if it works it is a fork with an arrogant name ;) FeXoR1: Well, we try Krock ;) appguru: "just a fork with an arrogant name" is an extreme understatement FeXoR1 appguru: OldCoder went well beyond arrogance with minetest.org sfan5: The person who runs the fork is an ex community member who had been removed for stalking and harassing developers and other community members. sfan5: This includes threats to contact relatives or employers with false claims and publicly posting personal information, so the suggestion to stay away doesn't come from nowhere. rubenwardy: He actually contacted my employer FeXoR1: Sounds like wise steps where taken by the minetest team to me, sfan5 ;) leo_rockway: rubenwardy: holy crap. FeXoR1: ...yes, who will sue him... In Germany there's the Chaos Computer Club that could provide affordable legal help. But, yes, its effort that could be used on coding and maybe not so easy to gather the evidence. Not sure. I'm not a big fan of suing anyways but I don't like breaking GPL either :/ rubenwardy: The US has bad libel laws, which makes it hard to sue leo_rockway: rubenwardy: he could be sued for license violation. Although any lawyer would try to avoid suing and would just request that he complies, I'm guessing. leo_rockway: some of the core devs could reach out to the EFF if this is a legitimate concern: https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance rubenwardy: I don't think he's violating the license, unless there's something against pretending to be official. The main issue is with his conduct leo_rockway: rubenwardy: if he's distributing mods that are GPLd and he's not providing the source code, he's violating the license. leo_rockway: he has a git repo with the engine code, but I don't see anything for mods. rubenwardy: He has to provide the source code to distribute the mods leo_rockway: oh, Lua is interpreted, right. leo_rockway: nevermind then. rubenwardy: Source code doesn't need to be provided using git, it can be in a zip archive Krock: well, you must also provide a changelog Krock: git does that automatically FeXoR1: Well if everything he doesn't provide is interpreted I guess he doesn't violate the GPL, yes. I don't know what in that "build kid". That's why I came here to ask ;) appguru: Didn't sofar try suing him or something? FeXoR1: Well, on to MinersWorld. Happy mining, crafting and building to you all ;) Krock: yeah.. building the engine source currently rubenwardy: Android makes all building 10x longer Krock: So on a Pentium D 3xx, that would take ~400 minutes sfan5: rubenwardy: did you ever finish testing the raspberry pi build I gave you regarding playability? rubenwardy: I did SimpleIRC_k79Oq: hi rubenwardy: With the OpenGL es, I got 5-10 FPS rubenwardy: I didn't get much further than that sfan5: hm that's not very playable rubenwardy: RPi 4 has an iGPU rubenwardy: So would be better rubenwardy: RPi 3 uses a software GPU iirc sfan5: huh? I'm sure all of them have a gpu sfan5: maybe the model 4 has a better one sfan5: changing the graphics settings around would probably help getting more fps Calinou: yeah, the RPi4 has a better, Vulkan + GLES3-capable GPU Calinou: the RPi3 has an unofficial Vulkan driver in the works too Calinou: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=RPi-VK-Driver leo_rockway: a new RPi4 came out recently. 8GB of RAM. Krock: but Minetest only uses OpenGL sfan5: not if you compile with with the Irrlicht OpenGL ES port Krock: well, but does OpenGL ES profit from Vulkan? Krock: nvm. > GLES3-capable GPU sfan5: if you for some reason only have vulkan I think there's a project that implement GLES on top of vulkan sfan5: but in practice you have GL or GLES anyway SoylentCow: you know what hard is? to suppress a violent rage when someone starts tuba denial tune on xoylent SoylentCow: mt lordvlad: Hii.. somebody can help me a bit? it's about minimap leo_rockway: I know nothing about minimap, but you should probably state your question and see if anybody knows the answer. lordvlad: lul xd.... I need info about how works minimap underground without radar mode.. example I see many diamonds ... dig but found nothing.. too for lava lordvlad: radar mode is the green and dark mode SoylentCow: what you see without radar is usually at the edge of a 16x16x16 voxel block about 100 nodes above you SoylentCow: this is because the algorithm shows you the highest non-air voxels within so many 16-voxel blocks above you SoylentCow: i think it would make more sense to show nothing if the next voxel up is also non-air, but that is not currently implemented SoylentCow: i should rly check if they are still here lol _Zaizen_: Hi everyone, I would like to know if anyone has an example of code with a custom damage type and how to hande it in functions like register_on_player_hpchange. I've been trying to understand how it works but not succeedeed in getting it to work. freelikegnu: _Zaizen_: seems like something that you could keep track of in player metadata. _Zaizen_: Not really, I've an entity that deal damage to a player thanks to a function. The entity knows also who is the player that spawned the entity and I need to some things when the entity try to deal damage to the player that created the entity. The problem is that I can't do those things in the function to deal damage, I MUST do everything in minetest.register_on_dieplayer sfan5: _Zaizen_: http://sprunge.us/n6ZR48?lua _Zaizen_: sfan5: thanks _Zaizen_: Also, how do you tag someone in a message? Is it just like this? username: message sfan5: yes sfan5: IRC has no special syntax, if the user has configured their client to notify them when their name is said they will get one _Zaizen_: Cool. freelikegnu: Sam Eliot's character in The Big Lebowski said something like this: if math.random() < .5 then foo = "bar" else bar = "foo" end Copenhagen_Bram: hello Copenhagen_Bram: i'm bored, so i just got out my 3d glasses so i can play 3d minetest, does anything want me to do anything special to test the 3d view? Copenhagen_Bram: the 3d glasses are only for anaglyph though MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: ParticleSpawner: Fix crash when attaching to invisible entity 1357df895 https://git.io/Jfbmm (152020-06-19T17:29:47Z) frabbit: "enable_fire = true" and "disable_fire = false" do both not work on my server frabbit: in singleplayer yes, but not on dedicated server frabbit: why is that? jas_: ahh! the duplicate settings in world.mt are so aggrivating! it took me a while to figure out why my test server kept announcing (port 29999) jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: [MineClone2][0.65.2][PVP][Protector Redo] | servidorcasa.myftp.org | Clients: 0/32, 0/1 | Version: 5.2.0 / MineClone2 | Ping: 51ms frabbit: before anyone is charging me: yes i did stop the server, edit minetest.conf and start the server again and yes i tried both settings seperately and together (just to be sure) jas_: what settings? did you check world.mt? how about minetest.conf inside the GAME directory (lol) frabbit: the setting to enable fire jas_: oh oh frabbit: read above jas_: did u look in minetest_game's minetest.conf.example file? jas_: it lists all applicable settings, and i just joined and hello to you! frabbit: not there i needed to add it jas_: ye fire and tnt off by default in multiplayer, i guess jas_: odd frabbit: but i use the full config file as my server sided minetest.conf jas_: what puzzles me is "singleplayer" mod, which is really just a hardcoded player name as "singleplayer" (smh) frabbit: of course not with everything enabled or everything disabled... jas_: can you paste the exact setting and value? frabbit: err.. i di frabbit: *did frabbit: 19:49 < frabbit> "enable_fire = true" and "disable_fire = false" do both not work on my server frabbit: 19:49 < frabbit> in singleplayer yes, but not on dedicated server jas_: there's no disable_fire in MTG/minetest.conf.example frabbit: jas_: i dodnt said that frabbit: *didnt jas_: right on frabbit: 19:58 < frabbit> not there i needed to add it jas_: anyway, what's disable_fire from? do u use fire_redo or the fire from MTG? frabbit: from mtg jas_: ye it's just `enable_fire = true' as you've said frabbit: read it in the wiki jas_: which wiki? frabbit: nah not working as i said jas_: well let me try frabbit: theres only one wiki o_0 jas_: really jas_: ? frabbit: https://wiki.minetest.net/Main_Page frabbit: jas_: you using multicraft or some other crap? jas_: well it works for me i made a video sfan5: there's dev.minetest.net too, but that's not the wiki you'll want to look into Krock: actually there are two wikis jas_: you can search "fire" in the settings->all settings menu Krock: these ninjas again... it's insane frabbit: jas_: fine. but that does not solve my problem, that it works not for me. jas_: so there's something disconnected in between jas_: if it's working normally, we should find out what is not normal in your configuration frabbit: i have a bare server without gui jas_: ok, so type /set enable_fire jas_: and tell me what it says frabbit: and what it is needed for when a ihave a global settings/config file anyway... frabbit: jas_: u mean as admin on that server? jas_: the fire mod checks minetest.settings for `enable_fire' at loadtime jas_: sure, what's it say? frabbit: wait i need some minutes, the server isnt running... Krock: /set -n enable_fire true but minetest.conf does the same jas_: !title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Atk59mQW08 MinetestBot: jas_: fire heh heh - YouTube Krock: yay an xfce user jas_: well y'all have a nice day, ttfn jas_: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! frabbit: ok im on my server as admin, so what now? 20:02 < jas_> ok, so type /set enable_fire - or - 20:04 < Krock> /set -n enable_fire true frabbit: Krock: i know but the config line doesnt work Krock: then add print("here!") into the fire code Krock: is "fire" in /mods ? frabbit: Krock: yes it is frabbit: huh? where that jas_? frabbit: *wheres sfan5: left frabbit: -.- Krock: *where's frabbit: Krock: lol Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/fire/init.lua#L19-L20 -> print(dump(fire_enabled)) Krock: same here again: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/fire/init.lua#L269-L270 frabbit: im on my server and runed "/set enable_fire" and chat print is "enable_fire = true" frabbit: *runned Krock: and if you shut it down, there's enable_fire = true in minetest.conf? frabbit: yes Krock: and disable_fire is set to false? Krock: this is so stupid frabbit: and it works, but only when i use this in minetest.conf on my clinet not when i use it in minitest.conf on my server Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/fire/init.lua#L16 frabbit: Krock: please read from 19:49 Krock: set disable_fire = false frabbit: i did that too frabbit: please read... Krock: sucks Krock: did you also add the logging lines? frabbit: wait frabbit: is the fire spreading when using flint and steel normal when fire is disabled?? frabbit: cuase that works but not with torches frabbit: *cause sfan5: fire shouldn't spread when disabled frabbit: but torches burn things when i enable fire in singleplayer minetest.conf on my client sfan5: but you can still light things on fire (they will not vanish) frabbit: sfan5: fine. so only torches do not work frabbit: when fire is enabled sfan5: what do torches have to do with fire? frabbit: but they do in singleplayer... weird its the same mod Krock: torches don't fire at all frabbit: sure not default frabbit: but i added them to group igniter Krock: find . -type f -name minetest.conf -exec grep "fire" {} \; frabbit: on my client and on my server Krock: ^ from your home frabbit: Krock: why? frabbit: and wich home? frabbit: on the server? frabbit: or on my laptop here? Krock: nvm. by the time I sent this, it became kinda superfluous frabbit: my server is dedicated, located in a big datacenter frabbit: but i cant reproduce the server issue on my client and thats even they are same (mods, config foobar) Krock: so if it works on your laptop (usually 80°C+ under load) but not in the datacenter (perhaps 50°C avg), maybe you need physical fire to enable fire frabbit: same minetest engine version, same mtg version... Krock: (just kidding, duh!) frabbit: x) frabbit: and my laptop normally doesnt go over 60°C btw ;) Krock: are you editing the correct minetest.conf file? frabbit: yes Krock: that's a cool laptop frabbit: Krock: the otehr things in it work like the passphrase for example Krock: alright frabbit: Krock: thats an innovation cooling pad made of 100% graphite ;) frabbit: between cpu die and heatsink frabbit: reusable and cheap * frabbit: turns commercial mode of Krock: pencils are made of 100% graphite as well frabbit: yes frabbit: https://www.innovationcooling.com/products/ic-graphite-thermal-pad/ Krock: well no. just the inner part. the wood around is obviously not graphite (unless burnt) frabbit: https://invidio.us/watch?v=YpphKzmDiJM frabbit: Krock: there are 100% graphite "pencils" for art frabbit: similiar like the charcoal ones SoylentCow: i don't know him, but he's your brother? SoylentCow: mt frabbit: any further ideas what i could try else? =( frabbit: else i would like to fill a bug report Krock: what if you host a local server? fire works? frabbit: Krock: i didnt try but i had the same ides right away xD Krock: yes sure whatever frabbit: man my mouse breaks o_0 frabbit: but only in x as it seems frabbit: i have to restart x. brb frabbit: lol minetest client did that o_0 frabbit: Krock: ok when i host a local server on my client it works too, so same as in singleplayer frabbit: flint and steel burn trees down and torches too frabbit: man thats so weird... frabbit: the only difference between this minetest installation and setup here on my local laptop and that one on that dedicated server in that datacenter is, that i didnt installed a client on the last one frabbit: only a bare server, but i dont think that this causes the problem.... it would be an aweful bug... frabbit: can anyone who runs a bare server on a computer somewhere please try to reproduce that issue? frabbit: for that just add an uncommented line in the server side minetest.conf with "enable_fire = true" and add at all group line in /mods/default/torches.lua -> igniter=1 frabbit: with the last one torches can burn down things that are flammable Krock: minetest_game/mods/default - right? frabbit: Krock: yes frabbit: i didnt changed anything else in default btw frabbit: oh and its not latest release frabbit: sorry i forgot to write that frabbit: its minetest 5.2.0 engine and game frabbit: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/tag/5.2.0 -- https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/releases/tag/5.2.0 frabbit: damn! frabbit: problem between chair and screen frabbit: a fu**! frabbit: in server torches.lua i wrote ignite instead of igniter.... frabbit: (i did this very late) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! frabbit: im very sorry... =( frabbit: maybe its to much to handle 3 different minetest... frabbit: or i should use some sync when i do similar things with them... frabbit: ok now it works frabbit: these igniters have a big range as it seems... Krock: range is 1, but fire ignites as well frabbit: hm.. a torch burned a wodden ladder that was 2 nodes away also a cobble stone node was between them frabbit: and it was the first thing that were burned by that torch frabbit: the server texturepack must named to "server"? frabbit: ~/minetest/minetest-5.2.0/textures/texture_packs_here.txt -> Put your texture pack folders in this folder. Textures in the "server" pack will be used by the server. frabbit: i putted a texturepack there, not working, i renamed the pack to server, not working. do i have to specify the path in minetest.conf? frabbit: man why isnt the mod under_sky in the default game? o_0 frabbit: that little thing adds a lot of immersion in caves frabbit: hmm.. textures not working on server frabbit: doesnt matter if i call the pack server or not, or add the full path to minetest.conf or not frabbit: so wiki is wrong again: https://wiki.minetest.net/MinetestEDU/Define_the_Texture_Pack_on_a_server frabbit: (and why the heck is it in french?...o_0) Seirdy: anybody know good mods for Technic? I know many mods support Technic recipes, but I'm interested in mods that take advantage of its electricity mechanic. I know of powerbanks and the autoseeder mods. Krock: Seirdy: your chance to write a nice extension mod :D frabbit: oh! it seems that the texturepack is the problem here, cause isabellaII works frabbit: ah i see summerfields doesnt have subfolders frabbit: maybe thats the reason why it doesnt work frabbit: where to find sun.png and moon.png? i searched minetest from the root on... sfan5: textures/base/pack/ sfan5: wait in fact sfan5: sky.cpp draws the sun and moon with colored vertices, no texture frabbit: nah not there frabbit: sfan5: oh! i see frabbit: so.. how to add custom sun and moon the? frabbit: *then sfan5: you can add a texture with that name frabbit: so sun.cpp and moon.cpp ? sfan5: sun.png and moon.png frabbit: ok.. but where to put them? frabbit: base/pack frabbit: default frabbit: just in textures folder sfan5: you can put it in any place from where minetest loads textures frabbit: sfan5: ok thank u i will try that out =) frabbit: heck! frabbit: isabella wasnt working it was clientside! frabbit: man.. it lack on docoumentation frabbit: *lacks frabbit: i jsut cant figure out how to force the clients to use the servertextures frabbit: *just frabbit: cant be frabbit: why isnt it at the wiki frabbit: https://wiki.minetest.net/index.php?search=server+texture&button=&title=Special%3ASearch frabbit: nothing * frabbit: rants frabbit: ive spend nearly 2 hours now on that, including sorting summerfields textures into subdirs... frabbit: the game just ignores it frabbit: documentation is essential frabbit: probably i can just replace all texture in the server/mods/foobar/textures folders with the ones i want to use, but thats a mess frabbit: and also wheres the guarantee that this forces the cleints to use this textures? frabbit: again: wheres the documentation for that? sfan5: there is no guarantee about anything sfan5: a client texturepack always takes precedence frabbit: no i have played on servers that force their textures, but anyway, even if i have no texturepack running on my client the server ones isnt used frabbit: forcing textures on servers is a must imho to keep a consistent visual look sfan5: anyway putting .png files into /texture/server should work sfan5: although this is undocumented frabbit: sfan5: but it doesnt frabbit: ive treid two different pack isabella2 and sumemrfields, they work fine on singleplayer btw. frabbit: *packs sfan5: just tested and it does work frabbit: oh great frabbit: but not here sfan5: check that .../textures/server/default_dirt.png exists (textures may not be in extra folders) and check that you have the correct path_user sfan5: you can determine where path_user is by running minetestserver --verbose --worldlist "" frabbit: default_dirt.png exists. now it is in "~/minetest/minetest-5.2.0/textures/server/default/default_dirt" before it was in "~/minetest/minetest-5.2.0/textures/server/default_dirt" both doesnt work frabbit: ill run taht command sfan5: textures/server/default/default_dirt.png is wrong frabbit: sfan5: because? but if so it doesnt matter read my last message frabbit: therte werent any subfolder before and it worked neither sfan5: because? what kind of reason do you expect? sfan5: putting it in a "default" folder is wrong because the code doesn't look in there frabbit: because it would be a mess to put textures for all mods in just one folder frabbit: but as i said it doesnt matter frabbit: it works neither withOUT subfolders sfan5: so what is the path_user of your installation? frabbit: sfan5: https://paste2.org/PDe6Wes5 sfan5: your texturepack should be in /home/USER/.minetest/textures/server frabbit: i tried to get it to work by renaming th "-5.2.0" but that works neither frabbit: what? frabbit: theres no texture folder o_0 sfan5: create one frabbit: remmeber the thing about documentation? frabbit: *sigh* sfan5: by the way if you didn't want the engine to look into ~/.minetest/ you should have configured it with -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 frabbit: if that were written anywhere (ive heard theres a wiki) i would already play minetest since 2 hours... frabbit: sfan5: thx i will test that now sfan5: before you reconfigure the engine ensure the server texture pack works sfan5: otherwise the location will be different again frabbit: but please just add a textures folder there for the next release with a little note inside... that would help people alot frabbit: nah i wont reconfigure the engine frabbit: its ok that it looks there frabbit: *phew* it finally works frabbit: so next issue frabbit: how to force clients to use the server textures? frabbit: ive selected summerfields for the server (works) adn now isabellaII for the client and the client textures overwriting the server ones... frabbit: thats exactly the behaviour i want to prevent sfan5: there is a way but you'll not be happy with it: textures are matched by name, so if you rename each to name unique for your server no normal texturepacks will work. frabbit: ah! frabbit: so i have to edit nearly every single lua files in all mods? sfan5: essentially yes (though there are possible scriptable solutions) frabbit: for example change in torches.lua torch_on_floor.png to my_own_texture_torch_on_floor.png and rename my torch texture that way? frabbit: holy sh** frabbit: thats a mess frabbit: so MustTest did this then... man what an amount of work that have been... sfan5: maybe they just use a custom game sfan5: (heavily customized) frabbit: and everytime the mod changes some lua file with texture information in it, u must change it again... frabbit: hmm.. u mean theres /games/musttest_subgame/default/textures/dirt.png <- but this is replaced with own texture? frabbit: */default/mods sfan5: no I mean e.g. the default mod is not called default but "def", then the texture would be called def_dirt.png and no texturepack would work frabbit: ah! frabbit: but thats the thing i talekd about before frabbit: *talked frabbit: oh no wait frabbit: just rename the mod frabbit: yes thats it * frabbit: head is droosy cause of messing arround with textures two hours frabbit: thats pretty easy then frabbit: sfan5: thank you very much for your help =) sfan5: sure frabbit: sfan5: hm.. probably MustTest do something other: https://notabug.org/BlueBird51/musttest_game/src/master/mods/default/textures frabbit: all names are the default ones (or he chnaged them only for his server, but would be a mess when he updates the repo on nab...) sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ frabbit: maybe i can write a pullrequest for an minetest.conf entry that forces clients to use server textures? frabbit: just make it opt-in and everyone would be happy frabbit: (opt-in choose for the server owner of course) frabbit: is minetest github mirrowed somewhere? frabbit: i dont want to create an account at a micro$oft service frabbit: ah found it frabbit: Add in client modding menu frabbit: @ Mainmenu Action / change needed Feature frabbit: #10039 opened Jun 16, 2020 by oilboi ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10039 -- Add in client modding menu by oilboi frabbit: whoops frabbit: https://gitlab.com/minetest/minetest frabbit: =( frabbit: i cant create pr at gitlab? frabbit: ah here: https://gitlab.com/groups/minetest/-/issues frabbit: done: https://gitlab.com/minetest/irrlicht/-/issues/1 df458: Hello, quick question for folks. I'm looking into updating and improving the formspec API docs in the developer wiki, and one of my ideas is to split the documentation of individual elements / similar groups (ie. buttons, containers, etc) into separate pages rather than packing everything into one page. I think this would help provide more detailed documentation and tailored examples, which I believe are becoming more necessary as df458: new features and improvements to formspecs are being added. It's a major change to that doc, however, so I wanted to get input from other people before doing this. What do you guys think? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: Fix only right strafe working (#10046) 138ebeed5 https://git.io/JfdMH (152020-06-18T00:43:43Z) gh00p: Is there a privilege I can grant that will allow a player to edit others' nodes when they normally wouldn't be able to? gh00p: I converted a level from single player to multi player, and now the stuff that's been built in the level is owned by "singleplayer" and off-limits to other players. rubenwardy: Protection bypass gh00p: rubenwardy, how do I do that? Is it a /grant? rubenwardy: I think it's /grantme protection_bypass gh00p: Ah, that worked perfectly! Thanks! gh00p: Is there some tool which I might use to change all nodes associated with one user to another user? freelikegnu: why is this freaking out: minetest.after(timeout, clear_hud(player,ids)) freelikegnu: same with this: minetest.after(5.0, print("ONE") ) rubenwardy: You're calling the function before after rubenwardy: You want minetest.after(1, print, "ONE") rubenwardy: Notice how there's no brackets rubenwardy: Your example code will call the functions and give the return value to Minetest.after rubenwardy: The return value probably being nil freelikegnu: my non-existant deity freelikegnu: many thanks oil_boi: I finally fixed the edge glitch :D https://youtu.be/YcWjoaLmsnE oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: Crafter - EXTREME Entity Performance - YouTube gh00p: noob question here... I downloaded a mod for a world I'm service locally, but I can't figure out how to get it running. It's "emote-master", which I figured would be pretty easy. I uncompressed the archive in the "mods" directory. What else do I do? gh00p: Should it instead be uncompressed into the "mod_storage" directory in the world directory? SoylentCow: you gotta edit the world out of start menu and enable the mod there gh00p: SoylentCow: so there's no way to enable the mod in a conf file? Emerald2: Do it in world.mt gh00p: Perfect, thanks. gh00p: Hey, I'm also trying out a mod named "technic" that seems to have a dependency on "basic_materials", which I've now downloaded. Are there other common dependencies that people tend to play around with? blaise: worldedit blaise: Vanessa actually made a whole slew of mods that you probably want blaise: pipes, digicons blaise: all kinds of stuff gh00p: Thanks! calcul0n: called pipeworks, mesecons and digiline calcul0n: also many mods add digiline devices, like digistuff blaise: homedecor blaise: isn't there a in-game mod browser? blaise: and doesn't it handle the dependencies? calcul0n: yes, the content tab in the startup window calcul0n: there are probably some cool mods not listed here though blaise: that is very unfortunet calcul0n: i mean most of them are there but you can still find less popular ones elsewhere calcul0n: a good place to search is the mod section on the forum MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add .nomedia file to Android assets (#10047) 13469e8d8 https://git.io/JfFcg (152020-06-18T17:24:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: content_cao: Fix behavior of legacy "textures" field for wielditems 13495f719 https://git.io/JfFcF (152020-06-18T17:36:06Z) SoylentCow: discord bad, but bridge good SoylentCow: mt frabbit: can i disable that players can use the debug info and other stuff? frabbit: espacially i just want to disable pos, yaw and pointed the rest doesnt matter frabbit: i want to force players to use a compass, their sense for orientation and knowledge about nodes to navigate throught the world SoylentCow: that's an interesting idea, but from what i understand, this is not possibe with the current client skyliner_369: Why is it that nvidia refuses to open up any details about their gpu but at the same time has 2 unpaid interns as the sole staff working on the linux GPU drivers? blaise: unpaid?! blaise: what a bunch of cock suckers blaise: skyliner_369: I believe they stole the tech from aliens and if they opened their spec then they would be exposed blaise: and then the gov, and the aliens would be after them skyliner_369: Hardy har har blaise: I'm not joking blaise: you might think it's a shitty joke, but in my heart, I truely believe it blaise: why else wouldn't they do it,, everyone else did blaise: I mean if they're such bad asses then it wouldn't matter because they're the only ones that could design and build it, right? skyliner_369: or maybe they just wanna stomp on AMD as much as they can to try and stay in the lead. blaise: beyond that, MAYBE they stole the tech from both amd and intell and THAT is why they refuse to open their spec skyliner_369: it's highly possible blaise: becuase if the truth came out they would have absolutly nothing blaise: in my honest opinion they don't got shit anyway blaise: fuckin 2080 super is kinda shit blaise: amd is about to leave em in the dust too blaise: intell might just surpass them skyliner_369: once their IPs run out, and they stop forcing extreme planned obsolescence. Honestly? I kinda feel GPU technology is actually pretty far behind. blaise: it is.. it's a damn shame blaise: we need like 5 or 6 more brands to really shake up the industry and make it a good market again blaise: back in the 90's there where boat loads of companies producing video cards blaise: and video card chips! blaise: now we aint got shit blaise: same with the cpu market blaise: it's completely hosed skyliner_369: Honestly? one of intel's GPU ideas seemed like it could actually be a bit of a winner. just shovel cores onto a piece of silicone. skyliner_369: least AMD is coming back and forcing intel to innovate. blaise: yeah, but it's a half assed effort.. blaise: intel couldn't give two shits about the pc market.. skyliner_369: which means only red for PCs soon to come Quiark: well ... macs are going to be ARM .. Quiark: that's competition blaise: with the way ARM and RiSK5 is looking, the x86-* future is looking bleak blaise: mac isn't competition skyliner_369: honestly x86 dying seems a good thing to me blaise: back in the 80's and early 90's apple was serious blaise: now it's a nitche poser market for uppitty bs'ers that don't understand that they paid way too much money for shit on a pogo stick. blaise: their hw is litterally marketed anywhere from $10-15k higher than the SAME EXACT HARDWARE that just doesn't run iOS skyliner_369: in a "Well-built aluminum case" like... if you're gonna put some high-end CPU in a machine, make sure the machine can even use that CPU. blaise: lol blaise: I don't even care about a case skyliner_369: it's like they feel that cooling is for plebs blaise: I'll bolt that thing to a wooden box, fuck it. blaise: or to the wall, and put plexi over it blaise: or buid it IN to a desk, like any sane person skyliner_369: inside a desk, with a nice glass top skyliner_369: honestly Linus's desk PC looks pretty awesome skyliner_369: Linus Sebastian blaise: yeah, I like the one Greg Salazar made for his wife blaise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHYeWWzfeBQ blaise: but honestly, if I were going to do it I would go homemade blaise: I love building furnature blaise: a nice hardwood with a glass panel that has active matrix display built into it.. blaise: that way you can either make it clear, make it glow, or put what ever you want on it.. blaise: and you can custom design your cooling how ever you like skyliner_369: a fun thing to do might be converting an irreparable (internally) commodore PET to a nice modern thing. blaise: sleeper pc's are fun... skyliner_369: the trouble would be finding CRTs of the right size. skyliner_369: a flat-panel of that size wouldn't be easy to find at all blaise: flat panels arent that great anyway blaise: modern displays can't even come close to keeping up with real fast scan video feed skyliner_369: CRTs strained my eyes but if I turned the refresh up, that tended to help a ton. blaise: I had a real nice crt that was very easy on the eyes.. 43.7" blaise: I paid a chunk for it though blaise: the cheap ones are terrible on your eyes skyliner_369: Dell made pretty decent CRTs, though, schools almost never had workable display settings... refresh of... I've seen as low as 25 hz. (That literally churned my stomach) I'd crank up the refresh rate to max if I could and then set resolution to max for that refresh. I kinda miss 120hz. though anything able to refresh above 60 hz seems to be ONLY 4k skyliner_369: or a CRT blaise: isn't that what most movies are at? blaise: like 27Hz ? blaise: my optiquest could push insane refresh rates blaise: but I spent like 8k on that thing blaise: dpi or dpp on that thing was insane swift110: hmm blaise: MUCH better picture than todays shit oil_boi: direct3d9 completely crashes the game :( oil_boi: But direct3d8 doesn't hm frabbit: is there a way to shrink the craft grid in player inventory? NetherEran_: yes, you can change the formspec and the corresponding inventory list NetherEran_: in sfinv the grid is defined in init.lua, line 12, the last two numbers specify the size frabbit: NetherEran_: thank u! =) will have a look at it. NetherEran_: yw, to change the inventory list you can do player:get_inventory():set_size("craft", size) in an on_joinplayer frabbit: and with the last one i can change the number of inventory slots? NetherEran_: last one is internal, first one is visually in the inventory frabbit: internal? frabbit: cool 2x2 craftgrid works NetherEran_: if you only do the first one a hacked client could probably still use the 3x3 grid NetherEran_: actually doing only the last one might work, not sure though frabbit: i see frabbit: but i wonder if that 2x2 cg really make sense, i mean sure now i could add a workbench and use mc mechanic, but the thing i prefer would be that some things need a workbench to be crafted frabbit: i mean doesnt make sense in minecraft at all, that u can build a huge workbench whereever u are, but stick a stick into some stone to make an axe for example is not possible without workbench frabbit: it would make sense when u would need another tool too for that, to first shape the stone for the axe and a knife to carve the stick for it NetherEran_: terrafirmacraft has a mechanic where you can carry certain things only in a special inventory slot on your back. Wilker: hello MinetestBot: Miniontoby: Jun-13 16:54 UTC rtfm please: the readme is here: https://github.com/minetest-monitoring/monitoring/blob/master/README.md and that what you are looking for is probably this: https://github.com/minetest-monitoring/monitoring/blob/master/monitoring/doc/standalone.md Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: yeah Miniontoby: !tell BuckarooBanzai5 I got it working and the .json not but I made it working and btw better MinetestBot: Miniontoby: yeah, sure, whatever frabbit: NetherEran_: interessting frabbit: i gtg cya soon =) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04oilboi -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix typo (#10043) 13a1b444b https://git.io/JfdzM (152020-06-17T17:59:02Z) frabbit: ive set "disable_fire = false" in minetest.conf and with flint and steel i can burn down tree trunks, but not with torches, why? calcul0n: developers choice i guess calcul0n: it would quickly be boring to burn a whole biome each time you place a torch :) frabbit: calcul0n: ok and how to enable that again? Krock: torches only ignite TNT frabbit: it was possibel once i remember frabbit: *possible calcul0n: maybe with a mod then? i've never seen that i think Krock: must be a mod. since 0.4.7 vanilla Minetest did not have any torches that ignited wood frabbit: nah there must be some group or something Krock: probably neither before, but can't tell from first person frabbit: hmm... frabbit: a fire mod then frabbit: any clue what mod that could be? frabbit: i think i could do it in mineclone too, ive burned down a forest there once, but im not sure if i did it with torches... rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24935 rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Minetest 5.3.0 release candidate 1 - Minetest Forums sfan5: cool sfan5: thanks for doing that Krock: nice. frabbit: cant be that i cant find anything... o_0 Krock: perhaps you did it using lava? frabbit: Krock: no frabbit: placing torches on tree were enough im sure frabbit: 100% Krock: (X) Doubt frabbit: that was cool, because u had to be very careful with open fire, good mechanic for children to learn how to handle it, without making the same experience by burning down the flat frabbit: Krock: i dont care if u doubt or not frabbit: ok lets do it the reverse way: is it written in the torches.lua that torches cant burn things? frabbit: if so then maybe other torches mods do not disable that, cause i also tried some of them in the past Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/fire/init.lua#L270-L283 Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/e8a7e75319847f50b495bbc5316f1d536e58b623/mods/default/torch.lua#L38 Krock: "missing" igniter group. It cannot create flames Krock: Though mods can modify that frabbit: ah fck github that doesnt work without js -.- Krock: then replace "blob" by "raw" frabbit: but thx frabbit: im checking real torches atm, i remember that i have that one too frabbit: Krock: ok what does that mean? frabbit: not blob pattern in both luas frabbit: *no Krock: frabbit: the URl frabbit: ah ok Krock: GitHub will redirect you to the plaintext version frabbit: nah i mean that u cant use that specific line in url without js frabbit: #L270-L283 frabbit: what is totally stupid frabbit: but i think that was neede even befoe Micro$oft annex it frabbit: *needed - *before frabbit: i will test group:igniter frabbit: works nicely! =) frabbit: thx again Krock Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! frabbit: oh... frabbit: the server burned down... frabbit: Krock: lol frabbit: Krock can u hep me please with my burned down world mister? frabbit: ;) Krock: sudo rm -rf /* should fix all your issues frabbit: =o thats an evil joke Krock: or sudo resize2fs 0G /dev/sda1 Krock: though that might not work because the partition is still mounted frabbit: nah to be sure all problems are really gon run: dd if=/dev/urandon of=/dev/sda frabbit: *gone Krock: urandon frabbit: *m frabbit: =P frabbit: seems like marram grass is in bloom frabbit: all this orange-red MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai5: Jun-17 14:21 UTC I got it working and the .json not but I made it working and btw better Zughy: uhm, if I have a string like "32_something2idk40" and I want to retrieve only what comes before the undescore, how can I do in Lua? Like, %d is not enough and %d+ should return 32240 sfan5: :match("%d+") works but you can also use :match("(%d+)_") if you want to explicit about the _ Zughy: The latter is what I was looking for, I had no idea I could do that. Ty sfan sfan5: https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#5.4.1 oil_boi: Oof I guess you can't put checkboxes into a scrolling table frabbit: if someone cares: all "require" calls in playeranim mod by Rui -> https://paste2.org/DkNZ96LY frabbit: can i change the load order of mods? frabbit: like in OpenMW for example frabbit: for example load character creator first and then player_textures mod from PilzAdam, cause now the first overwrites the second... freelikegnu: ugh I hate being in a mind block... I can't use my brain when my body is exhausted swift110: oh c74: Hello oil_boi: Are item entity functions not copied, or metatable-inherited? oil_boi: copied* not not copied sfan5: copied how exactly? oil_boi: are the functions created individually for each entity or are they working from one function? sfan5: on creation of an object the engine does this: local t = { object = ObjectRef } setmetatable(t, core.registered_entities["entity:name"]) core.luaentities[id] = t skyliner_369: who should I blame sluggish framerates in game on? NVIDIA? or Canonical? texmex: skyliner_369: Irrlicht or MT itself skyliner_369: it works better in wandows however. the building of the software, though, is far more cluttered there. And I mean about 3 times the amount of just... files. ANAND: MT itself, more likely than not skyliner_369: why's it running so much faster on windows then? Ingar: skyliner_369: definetly blame nvidia. see linus torvalds on nvidia. skyliner_369: sfan5: how many cores does your PC have? skyliner_369: in other words, what does "echo $(nproc)" echo? oil_boi: Which setting for formspecs sets the color of the background? I'm trying to make the translucent back invisible oil_boi: back->black oil_boi: In the main menu, I mean skyliner_369: I'm gonna try running make with the same number of cores as your PC has, sfan5 skyliner_369: see if that fixes the issue sfan5: skyliner_369: 12 sfan5: I also have a nvidia gpu if that matters skyliner_369: is that what that echo command tells you? skyliner_369: in other words, is it a 6 dual-threaded core CPU? because my CPU is 12-core but they're 12 dual-threaded cores skyliner_369: Well... the theory I had failed. What'd you suggest I do to get make to work in your buildwin64.sh script? since it's been a *while* since you told me, sfan5 sfan5: Client: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: ArchLinux • CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Six-Core Processor (2,39GHz) • Memory: 15,3 GiB Total (12,9 GiB Free) • Storage: 281,1 GB / 488,4 GB (207,3 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation GP107 [GeForce GTX 1050 Ti] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h • Uptime: 1w 5d 3h 21m 41s sfan5: skyliner_369: what was the error message again? skyliner_369: https://termbin.com/t3wi here's a termbin of the echos from the buildwin64.sh sfan5: are you still using the mingw from ubuntu? skyliner_369: right... skyliner_369: where's the ppa I should grab it from? sfan5: uh no idea sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/.github/workflows/build.yml#L210-L211 sfan5: the CI builds download it from here instead skyliner_369: ???????/ sfan5: if you state your source of confusion maybe I can help skyliner_369: can you say that in english? sfan5: what is the "?????" supposed to mean oil_boi: Is the translucent black container box for main menu formspecs baked into the engine? skyliner_369: I was trying to say what you said went a mile and a half above my head >.> skyliner_369: I'm trying to look at the mingw.org website and that only has a windows installer??? sfan5: the automatic builds that run when code is committed do not use e.g. a PPA, but download an archive with mingw inside from somewhere and extract it on the build machine skyliner_369: well I was trying to see where to get the latest mingw version... since, well, mingw.org is... unhelpful skyliner_369: also trying to do the build on a Debian WSL system fails as well. skyliner_369: sfan what's your OS? * Krock: bets for Arch Linux Verticen: is there an IRC command on this server to display the current version of Minetest-Testing? Krock: What's Minetest-Testing? Krock: if you mean minetest/minetest master (development) branch: there's none, but you can see it here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/master Krock: additionally, new commits are announced in this channel Krock: so that's also telling you about the current version Krock: ^ Verticen sfan5: skyliner_369: I suggest creating a vm with ubuntu and installing the mingw also used by the CI, then you can run the buildbot scripts and it will work Verticen: kk thx Krock: skyliner_369: regarding the OS question. There's a long message above providing all his important system information Krock: (just seen it right now lol) Corey[m]1: And I got kicekd again for inactivity :( gpcf: hi gpcf: there is no CSM support for entities, right? sfan5: currently not, no gpcf: it would be a pretty awesome feature, to add display entities gpcf: so stuff such as text could be displayed using a CSM sfan5: yeah that sounds very useful gpcf: these technical display entities are a bit of a PITA to handle gpcf: they have to be redrawn, positioned, have to be saved, and they can become extremely numerous sfan5: CSM wouldn't that less annoying though? it just moves the responsibility to the client sfan5: make that* gpcf: well, it would make the client generate the entity every time it loads it gpcf: and would remove one worry about lag on servers gpcf: another advantage would be that text display entities could be internationalized frabbit: how to change the range where playernames can be seen? i cant find anything in the config sfan5: search for "transfer" frabbit: ok frabbit: sfan5: cool thx =) NetherEran: Are there any loading screens the game displays apart from joining/leaving the game? rubenwardy: There are not NetherEran: ok, thanks oil_boi: Which function handles button presses in the main menu? sfan5: irrlicht's gui code which eventually ends up in guiformspecmenu.cpp oil_boi: Oh, it's written wrong in the main menu api it's not buttonhandler it's button_handler oil_boi: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/menu_lua_api.txt#L350 Hahahaha MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Make dry grass spread on default:dirt again (#2687) 13e8a7e75 https://git.io/Jf51f (152020-06-16T19:42:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04dcbrwn -> 03minetest/minetest: Make shading of CAOs optional (#10033) 133a6dfda https://git.io/Jf51k (152020-06-16T19:48:31Z) frabbit: dunno ive my last message was sent, i have connection problems here and theres no irc log for this channel as it seems, so here it is again: frabbit: *if frabbit: sfan5: doesnt work. ive made the chnages and started the server sfan5: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/today sfan5: frabbit: did you set both settings? frabbit: set unlimeted transfer to false and the transfer in blocks to 100 sfan5: that's a yes sfan5: !c 100*16 MinetestBot: 1600 frabbit: the i red that the first one is deprecated so i disbaled it but it works neither sfan5: did you teleport a player 1600 nodes away to test? frabbit: sfan5: thx for the log link =) frabbit: sfan5: 1600? frabbit: i set it to hundred frabbit: are that maplocks? sfan5: yes frabbit: or something frabbit: ah ok xD frabbit: but i think in the condig is written blocks frabbit: bit confusing then ;) frabbit: sfan5: thank u ill try it again frabbit: *the config sfan5: the offical term for a single cube is "node" sfan5: a bit confusing since that other block game calls those "blocks" frabbit: oh i see frabbit: lol sfan5: (and most players do too) frabbit: that other block game u mean cubeworld? xD sfan5: ;) frabbit: =) frabbit: sfan5: works! thank you! =) Zughy: Howdy; is there a callback for when an item is clicked inside an inventory? I can't seem to find any sfan5: clicked as in in the inventory screen where you move items? Zughy: exactly sfan5: then: no, nothing happens until you place the "taken" item somewhere else sfan5: (by "nothing" I mean there is no packet sent to inform the server of anything) Zughy: uhm, is it something which could be implemented in the future (I can try) or not? sfan5: what's your usecase? sfan5: in general there is a good reason the client doesn't do anything before it knows where you want to move the item Zughy: I have a compass to use it as a warp: it opens an inventory of items associated to locations. When a player clicks on one of these items, it gets teleported sfan5: just use a formspec instead, it is possible to make one that looks like an inventory sfan5: or do you need it to be usable as an inventory simultanously? Zughy: uhm.. creating the list was easier with the inventory (because the amount of items and consequently the rows can change) but I guess I can go with an item_image_button oil_boi: What are the settings that effect performance the most? oil_boi: Oh lawd awell: You too? luk3yx: A netsplit oil_boi: Welcome back bois SoylentCow: what's the deal with minetest @ wikipedia? some deletions of doom? i checked, i don't think anyone ever produced a decent article, so this should be something to consider SoylentCow: oh you know rat? SoylentCow: mt SoylentCow: but the long one, about wiki, is for here SoylentCow: 3Mooooo!!!!!! oil_boi: Moo swift110: hey LePotat319: Hello. swift110: how r u LePotat319: Good, you? oil_boi: Krock, I'll test that packet error catching in a bit :D Olea: Hi, I'm setting up a server, v5.1, I want to use a lot of mods in my world so I downloaded and configured them at world.mt. All this is fine. Olea: My problem is when the server starts I can see at debug.txt a lot of messages of non found dependencies, like: Olea: 2020-06-15 13:04:08: ERROR[Main]: mod "asphaltstairs" has unsatisfied dependencies: "moreblocks" Olea: The weird thing to me is I'm sure that and the other dependencies are really available at the correct paths. Olea: Seems I'm missing something but I don't know how to diagnose where the problem is, any idea? Olea: (the server starts but without using the modules with deps problem, of course) skyliner_369: I wonder if there's a discord channel for the game sfan5: there's an unofficial discord for minetest sfan5: Olea: did you enable the other deps in world.mt? Olea: sfan5: yes Olea: $ grep moreblocks world.mt Olea: load_mod_moreblocks = true Olea: $ find ../../mods/ -name moreblocks Olea: ../../mods/dreambuilder_modpack/moreblocks sfan5: any other error messages? often when people have this problem it's because they have the same mod twice in different modpacks Olea: yes. about farming Olea: 2020-06-15 15:28:39: WARNING[Main]: Mod name conflict detected: "farming" Olea: 2020-06-15 15:28:39: WARNING[Main]: Will not load: /usr/share/minetest/games/minetest_game/mods/farming Olea: 2020-06-15 15:28:39: WARNING[Main]: Overridden by: /home/olea/.minetest/mods/dreambuilder_modpack/farming Olea: But I guessed it worked becasue I have no other message related with farming skyliner_369: man, I've just been making textures this past while. just... textures. for a "simple" mod... then again, maybe the mod might have a touch of feature-creep... and I haven't even written a line of lua for it yet. skyliner_369: does anyone have a mod for running? preferably without a stamina bar? if it adds a hunger bar like the java-based game that's fine... just... I don't wanna end up only sprinting for 10 seconds and having to wait 30 before sprinting again. sfan5: !mod hbsprint MinetestBot: sfan5: Sprint w. hudbars, hunger, monoids support [hbsprint] by texmex - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18069 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/hbsprint skyliner_369: thanks. I'm not the greatest at... search engines... mostly because I'm awful at synonyms and coming up with the name of something I'm looking for texmex: Heyyy, that’s my mod! =) skyliner_369: I noticed! though there's no little icon thingy in the mod browser thingy. skyliner_369: the settings txt thing is the right thing to edit settings in right, texmex? skyliner_369: specifically settingstype.txt skyliner_369: settingstypes.txt, even skyliner_369: or am I supposed to make a settings.conf file and copy over what I don't want as default? sfan5: settings.txt only specifies the settings sfan5: settingtypes.txt* sfan5: like the description, type, value range skyliner_369: So do I make a settings.conf file? I'm not super familiar with how mods work. or are the settings, like, put in the minetest.conf file? skyliner_369: gosh I feel so clueless skyliner_369: basically, where does "minetest.settings:get(name)" look? Krock: the settings hierarchy is not so clear, but it should be like this: default settings (C++) -> game settings (minetest.conf) -> user settings (minetest.conf) Krock: :get() takes the last possible from the chain skyliner_369: well it's part of a mod init lua so if I put a settings.conf in the mod folder it'd look in settings.conf? or do I put the mod's settings in minetest.conf? Krock: there's no settings.conf Krock: unless you read that directly using Settings("path to file") Krock: introduce a settingtypes.txt file and let the user put them into the global minetest.conf Krock: then use defaults like so: minetest.settings:get_int("mymod.my_setting") or 32 skyliner_369: Alright... now it's starting to make sense. Wait... I'm dumb. the whole get settings thing is there for the ability to edit the settings with the allsettings in game skyliner_369: okay that's *weird* I edited the settingstypes.txt... and... I'm not supposed to edit those am I? sfan5: you're not supposed to edit that sfan5: put the settings you need into minetest.conf skyliner_369: or just use the minetest settings editor sfan5: yes that's easier skyliner_369: makes me wonder why ethereal bothered to do some odd-looking dofile commands skyliner_369: er... TenPlus1 decided to do the settings.conf in ethereal with dofile skyliner_369: texmex: am I dumb? I can't seem to find the key to sprint... or it might be something else being dumb? sfan5: it's e skyliner_369: oh. just takes a second to start running skyliner_369: No matter whether or not numlock is on, I can't seem to use my numpad to put numbers into the settings... Verticen_: How do you make minetest fullscreen? (dumb Q) texmex: skyliner_369: Yes, the key check and the whole mod is completely server-side, so it needs to strike a balance between responsiveness and polling frequency. Unfortunately. skyliner_369: ahh Olea: the v5.0 build doesn't work in Android 10. Should I report this anywhere? frabbit: i try out playanim(-new) atm and because i have "secure.enable_security = true" it doesnt work, so i whitelisted it with "secure.trusted_mods = playanim" but even after restart the game i get the same "ERROR[Main]: require() is disabled when mod security is on." frabbit: do i misunderstand that whitelist or does it not work? frabbit: hmm also when i disable the security option playanim seems to not working with wield3d frabbit: so the probably conflicting, cause both change something on the player model? frabbit: ok for the second issue it seems that wield_redo fixes it https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21504 (didnt tried yet) frabbit: but what about the minetest.conf issue? sfan5: Olea: the currently available android build is for 5.1.0, did you try that? Wuzzy: oil_boi: fyi i have 8 PRs in the pipeline https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls/Wuzzy2 Wuzzy: only 1 of them (translate builtin) is blocked because of me. 7 of them are not merged yet for ... other reasons frabbit: function is broken as it seems... oil_boi: There is a lot going on there oil_boi: I kinda get in the "engine" mood and slam dunk some code into the engine for fun oil_boi: Development, is not development, unless the base of the game is changing and not just the elements around it ~amazing~ unless poops missing or broken then that's definitely needed oil_boi: I want to see the day when someone accidentally merges all prs Wuzzy: this will be a desaster Wuzzy: many PRs are many years old because they have been ignored for years and are not compatible with current codebase oil_boi: In a world where prs don't have expiration dates oil_boi: One man, BUM BUM, merged, BUM BUM, them all Wuzzy: The sad truth is the PR tab of Minetest is a graveyard of (un-)dead PRs frabbit: its confusing that the dir u get when downloaded playeranim calls playeranim-new and i thought that this causes the problem, so i renamed it to playeranim as it is written in the mod.conf file of the mod but doesnt help either... =( Wuzzy: PRs that once were functional when they got created but after the years they are so far away from the codebase a merge attempt will be a nightmare oil_boi: I'll go through them all and bump them with "old" if they're more than a year old :D Wuzzy: yet nobody is bold enough to step forward to either adopt or kill the PR. therefore, a lot of undead PR haunt Minetest oil_boi: Developers hate him! Wuzzy: that wont really fix the underlying problem. frabbit: doesn anyone here even use the "secure.trusted_mods = foobar" option? oil_boi: Every hour of every day on all 50 of my accounts >:D Wuzzy: the underlying problem is that PRs don't get the attention they deserve. Wuzzy: frabbit: yes frabbit: Wuzzy: and you have that problem too? Wuzzy: don't use require, duh! frabbit: what? Wuzzy: you used require(), which is forbidden frabbit: no i did not playeranim does Wuzzy: well blame playeranim then oil_boi: Well it's very simple actually, the core are also the problem resolvers and the developers and they are doing it in their free time along with a few multiple people that go "OH MY GOD WHY DID YOU DOO DAT!!11!" on the forum, that would make me not even want to try PRs frabbit: Wuzzy: but i wihtelisted that mod and its still the same error... oil_boi: Oh and they're also forum admins Wuzzy: its a bug in playeranim, ask modder to fix it frabbit: hemodder is gone oil_boi: But, on the flip side, slight code misalignment, an extra space here or there, etc, etc, slight readability problems, slight, slight, is not a reason to not merge cause that code is hard to understand without a few hours of study regardless Wuzzy: then the mod is broken, sorry frabbit: the modder deleted that mod from froums and some admin restores it and block access to the thread fro the modder (or even the whole froum?) frabbit: *for Wuzzy: wait, the mod was deleted from forum??? why? frabbit: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=371792#p371792 Wuzzy: oh wait... frabbit: even if it is an ugly hack, it contains also a swimmnig and falling animation Wuzzy: this mod implements a feature that now has engine support? Wuzzy: nobody needs this mod anymore. let it die frabbit: i didnt knew before that this is possible in mt Wuzzy: it was correct for the mod to be restored for historic interest tho frabbit: what do u mean with engine support? frabbit: theres no playeranimation... frabbit: except the right arm frabbit: and walking Wuzzy: i want to bet the mod implements mod security completely wrong, otherwise it should work frabbit: anyway why the heck does that whitelisting not works? frabbit: *work Wuzzy: i say that because it happened with one of my own things as well Wuzzy: and have fixed it since frabbit: ok thats good for your mod. could you maybe please answer my question? Wuzzy: okay okay. there's no complete playeranim in engine then Wuzzy: but the mod appears to be broken either way Wuzzy: the only way is to touch the mod itself... i'm sorry frabbit: so the whitelisting does not work because of the mod? Wuzzy: i don't know, its just a guess frabbit: that doesnt make any sense to me... Wuzzy: but it makes sense to me, because i experienced the very same bug in one of my own games frabbit: that mod handles security wrong as u said. ok. but that whitelist should exclude that mod from the security check Wuzzy: even trusted mods need to request insecure environment frabbit: i tell the security thing in mt: "hey block all evil badass mods except this one" and it blocks "this one"? wtf?! frabbit: ok frabbit: so thats another mechanic Wuzzy: trusted mod does not mean the mod is trusted blindly frabbit: i see frabbit: thx thats the information i was looking for frabbit: is that modder still arround? Wuzzy: mods need to request_insecure_environment(), and this returns a table with stuff they can use for their insecure stuff, but ONLy if the mod is marked as trusted as you Wuzzy: i dont know. Wuzzy: if modder is still existing frabbit: oh as it seems: https://forum.minetest.net/search.php?author_id=11621&sr=posts frabbit: but not here in irc as it seems.. *sigh* frabbit: so ill have to creat e an account though... frabbit: *create frabbit: but im lazy!1! frabbit: ^_^ frabbit: i dint get it why he or she removed that mod... i couldnt find anything similar Wuzzy: i suppose because engine supported was added (although limited) frabbit: but that modder didnt mentioned that or even post a link Wuzzy: its just a guess... frabbit: i guess playeranimation will not be default in any time soon? frabbit: swimmiing, head moving etc... frabbit: *swimming * frabbit: needs a new keyboard frabbit: keys do not react or stuck... frabbit: emote mod from sofar is also nice frabbit: but probably they are all cvonflicting to each other... frabbit: they should all merged into one clean mod frabbit: 3darmor, wield3d, playeranim, emote... Olea: Humm. I checked again. Removed and reinstalled. From GPlay it works, but for some reason the bundle from F-Droid not :-| oil_boi: How does formspec get the scroll bar? oil_boi: Hey sfan5 when you get the chance can you see if the capes flow better on your end, I just rewrote the skins mod which has the capes in it along with the new pr you merged for dynamic media loading. Also thanks for that, you did a great job! oil_boi: Also, I am testing a new method where entities all use the same memory object for variables and it seems to insanely increase performance dennisjenkins: I've written a mod that works. Following thr example in Ruben Wardy's modding book, I'm refactoring the code into testable units. I repeated, the mod works. However, the unit tests fail because when my mod calls "string.split", "string" is nil inside 'busted' (yet it is a valid table and string.split is a function inside Minetest). dennisjenkins: Also "print(dump(foo))" fail when ran under 'busted', as 'dump' is nil (works fine in minetest though). dennisjenkins: I assume that I need some magic lua incantation at the top of my mod source, but not knowing Lua well, I'm not sure. dennisjenkins: Ah, I see. "string:split" is added my minetest; it does not exist in normal lua. Then how are we supposed to unit test mods that use such helpers? dennisjenkins: I fixed the issue by doing a conditional import of "/usr/share/minetest/builtin/common/misc_helpers.lua" inside my "api.lua". I'm now trying to handle the import inside "tests/api_spec.lua" instead, so I don't polute the API itself. hecks: Tried compiling the server's scripts to speed up loading; minetest complains about "incompatible bytecode" hecks: alright, never mind, I guess the version did change hecks: Is it possible to make a world from the commandline? hecks: what the actual fuck hecks: whoops wrong window sfan5: 🤔 oil_boi: How's that for optimized :D https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/player_mechanics/eating_mechanics.lua sfan5: i've seen people inline lots of function but I'm not sure it's really necessary Krock: if you're already making them local, use direct functions rather than a table lookup in between Krock: food_class.copy vs table.copy is negligible, if it even improves anything oil_boi: Ohhh but I can keep all the food_class other stuff though correct? Since I need key look ups per player oil_boi: When I run local test = data does that create new objects in memory then terminate them every step? Krock: tables and functions will be copied by reference only Krock: GC must clean them up afterwards, yes. oil_boi: So if I assign a local variable before the scope of the function is defined "ie above" every step it will work from that same memory value over and over and not have to create-terminate? oil_boi: Ie the same memory block in ram Krock: that's called "scope", so yes. Krock: same applies for basically all other sane languages oil_boi: I can work with that oil_boi: Let me see.. sfan5: ironically python has somewhat broken scoping despite being a good language other than that thefamilygrog: Hi, is it possible to modify something so that players are able to right-click on a protected node? Krock: they can already do that when "interact" is granted Krock: if it works for owners, then change the mods so that it fits thefamilygrog: Ah, okay. I'll have to look at that -- it's been a few years since I ran my last server. Hope you're doing well, Krock thefamilygrog: Thanks Krock: np Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! oil_boi: Ok how about this https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/player_mechanics/eating_mechanics.lua Krock: yes, that'll now save you 1us of execution time thefamilygrog: @Krock it looks like the protection mod I'm using is out of date thefamilygrog: It interprets every right-click as the player trying to place something, even if their hand is empty thefamilygrog: Sorry, spoke to soon, ignore that ajonen8940: what is the other in game channel again? ajonen8940: wrong chan. nvmd hecks: how do I host dedicated without announcing? ANAND: server_announce = false ANAND: ^ in minetest.conf hecks: alright hecks: the server says it's listening on 0.0.0.0:30000, is this normal? hecks: I'm having trouble connecting to it, even though the port is forwarded ANAND: Yeah, that looks correct hecks: any idea what could be preventing a connection, other than router settings? ANAND: Are you connecting to the correct address? hecks: yes, it's DNSed hecks: I can ssh to the same computer just fine ANAND: If it says "listening on 0.0.0.0:30000" it's indeed running as a dedicated server (singleplayer uses a random port ~50000) ANAND: What happens when you connect? Does it mention a timeout? hecks: yes, timed out hecks: it can be connected to on lan ANAND: Oh hecks: so guess it's routing problems hecks: or ISP meddling ANAND: Yeah, sounds like port-forwarding issues hecks: 30k is forwarded but it might be blocked higher up ANAND: Hm, ISP meddling could be a possibility as well. hecks: how do I change the port? hecks: oh here it is, never mind Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: cheapie: Miniontoby: I saw your video about the "can your mesecons pistons do this" Miniontoby: and I have been building with digistuff pistons Miniontoby: and I dont get the delay BuckarooBanzai: !tell Miniontoby rtfm please: the readme is here: https://github.com/minetest-monitoring/monitoring/blob/master/README.md and that what you are looking for is probably this: https://github.com/minetest-monitoring/monitoring/blob/master/monitoring/doc/standalone.md MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: I'll pass that on when Miniontoby is around MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Server pushing media at runtime (#9961) 132424dfe https://git.io/JfQIn (152020-06-13T17:03:26Z) skyliner_369: Been working on a few models to export as OBJs for the mod I'm working on. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/zl7PVef7/image.png oil_boi: Krock, I gotta finish installing this door and I'll repull and compile with the diff to check what's going on oil_boi: Also media push, good lord, the possibilities MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Exposing the zoom key to Lua API (#9903) 13e7e065f https://git.io/JfQ3e (152020-06-13T20:46:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update translation files 130a1181f https://git.io/JfQs4 (152020-06-13T21:22:32Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update minetest.conf.example, settings_translation_file.cpp 130ba19a0 https://git.io/JfQsR (152020-06-13T21:22:32Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04darkcloudcat -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Vietnamese) 13c013a24 https://git.io/JfQs0 (152020-06-13T21:22:32Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pomanfedurin@gmail.com -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Kazakh) 1324e58b7 https://git.io/JfQsE (152020-06-13T21:22:32Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ferrumcccp -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Chinese (Simplified)) 138aa1a36 https://git.io/JfQsu (152020-06-13T21:22:32Z) oil_boi: YOU EXPOSED the lua api to Z :O oil_boi: Thank you blaise: lol mazes_80: Hi, I just noticed there's a few lines "hack" for getting all privileges and infinite life. mazes_80: Just realized but I guess (strongly) devs are already aware. mazes_80: Is there good approach to prevent this ? (the only one I think of would be server side managing for all player stats, but that's not the way it is) hecks: What's a typical map size in GB for a minetest server? BuckarooBanzai: hecks: depends, can be in the 100's of MB for smaller servers to 100GB+ for big servers oil_boi: Is there a setting where I can make players move towards their look direction baked into an override or anything? Like look fly sfan5: pitch_move exists but the server can't decide whether it's enabled sfan5: would make a lot of sense though oil_boi: Damn Warr1024: You can probably detect whether the player is using pitch move or not by comparing control inputs with actual motion of the player object over time, but they'd need to be in a situation where they're actively using it, i.e. swimming or flying. Then, if you detect it, the best you can do is advise them, e.g. pop up a message saying "pitch move is Warr1024: recommended for this game; check the key binding menu to see how to toggle it" or something. Warr1024: Ultimately how the player's inputs map to the intentions they confer on the player character is a player's decision and games should be limited in what they can mess with, unless they're trying to interfere with the player/character interaction somehow, like a controls reversed "confusion" debuff (which I think MT can't do without some ugly hacks) Warr1024: In theory, you could attach the player to an entity and handle all movement controls server-side, like the way vehicles work, but the extra round-trip time from that would be very annoying under normal play. Maybe there's something a CSM could do better though...? Warr1024: There are situations where I'm tempted to mix server-side and client-side control, e.g. have the player get attached for a specific situation and then detached when the special movement is done, but network latency would lead to some jank, and if the movements wouldn't be smooth then I'm better off without them anyway. oil_boi: Hm oil_boi: I didn't want any lag to cause players problems so I didn't go with pitch move player_acceleration MinetestBot: 02[git] 04luk3yx -> 03minetest/minetest: Add LevelDB player database (#9982) 13982a030 https://git.io/JfHgG (152020-06-12T16:54:20Z) oil_boi: sfan5, https://i.imgur.com/VItRmKc.png skyliner_369: minecraft clone in minetest, oil_boi ? oil_boi: Kind of, I'm making it the way I want it to be skyliner_369: uh huh skyliner_369: I'm working on my own mod, actually. The mod's name? simple. Smeltery. oil_boi: Working on extreme optimizations and additions for servers oil_boi: Very cool skyliner_369: Not gonna lie, it's heavily inspired by tconstruct oil_boi: Dump it into my game and we'll have Feed the Weast skyliner_369: test the feed. XD skyliner_369: feed the test oil_boi: Very noice skyliner_369: something like that. skyliner_369: If I were to do something like that, though, it'd be a game and not just a mod(pack) lol oil_boi: I was only half kidding, I want to create buildcraft elements, like quarries, because this is going to start as a MC clone and slowly turn into FTB, but you can't have a good game with a bunch of stuff without the core elements polished oil_boi: I am building lua methods for ultra extreme optimizations, local elements and pointers so that calculations are as fast as the cpu can push out skyliner_369: I'd actually make a few core things. Like fluid cores. Basically, a utility that makes putting fluids in node logic and UIs much easier. skyliner_369: in other words, pointing luascripts to libraries written in not lua? oil_boi: No, to make local files work from libraries with pointers to allow other files to intercept the data oil_boi: Like this https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/new_functions/init.lua skyliner_369: ahh skyliner_369: I actually know very little about lua... and how mods work. Can one mod basically include a script from another? sfan5: oil_boi: nice Wuzzy: skyliner_369: you mean "#include" like in C? In Lua we use "dofile()" Wuzzy: I suppose you could theoretically run a script file from another mod... but i thiink this is a very dumb idea because the mod itself usually runs all their .lua files themselves Wuzzy: We generally only want to run .lua files within the same mod MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hoodedice -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Change brake rail to red (#2692) 13d03d7e9 https://git.io/JfHPW (152020-06-12T21:37:23Z) oil_boi: sfan5, oh god https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/hunger/init.lua#L95 oil_boi: stage 1 of complete rewrite skyliner_369: I'm wondering if there are instructions to build minetest for Android iamweasel: idle: yah hopefully 2nite iamweasel: mt DrFrankenstone: rendeko: I always thought a metaworld style player editor would be great in Minetest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnC8dFPO4WY&t=18s DrFrankenstone: (though I also don't know how MT servers handle player models) DrFrankenstone: i.e. no need to limit characters to "Steves" DrFrankenstone: For colored particles in my particlespawner I'm using texture = "^[colorize:#A00:255", is there a better way? It's not clear to me what cost is associated with texture modifiers - especially if they don't have a texture skyliner_369: doing some of the earliest stages of asset creation for a mod I'm gonna be making. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/5SL9twaJ/image.png skyliner_369: and if you can't guess, the mod's a bit, I'd say, inspired by tinker's construct. pere: Hi. Is there a way to use TCP to connect to a minetest server? UDP do not have the feature set I need. BuckarooBanzai: pere: not currently, no (any maybe not even in the future) there is a way to tunnel it though, why do you think you need to have TCP? pere: To make it available using pagekite, which only support tcp. :) Also, would love to connect via Tor, which also only support TCP, but that is more of a nice trick. BuckarooBanzai: interesting ;) i've done some tests with encapsulating it in an openvpn tunnel, you *could* in theory run that over tcp: minetest -> openvpn(tcp) -> tor -> ? (the latency will be brutal, just fyi ;) pere: this assume '?' is some openvpn server on the other end, right? Not going to fly. :) BuckarooBanzai: ah, right, yeah, or openvpn in a tor hidden service :) pere: I got mintest server -> pagekite -> server outside my control -> minetest client. BuckarooBanzai: whats your use-case anyway? pere: making my freedombox minetest server available to my kids outside the house. pere: but if minetest can not use tcp, minecraft it is, I guess. :) BuckarooBanzai: simple port-forwarding + ddns service doesn't work for you? pere: UDP is not an option, no. * BuckarooBanzai: shrugs DrFrankenstone: pere, why not use a tunnel that allows udp port-forwarding, rather than pagekite (if pagekite does not)? DrFrankenstone: arggh, goddammit! I started work on exposing a basalt region in the nether and Minecraft has already done it, including a bunch of the ideas I had, now it'll just look derivative. Quiark: pere: you need to put some TCP based tunnel on both sides... Quiark: what is pagekite BuckarooBanzai: Quiark: a cloud port-forwarding service from what i've seen on the website: https://pagekite.net/ BuckarooBanzai: !title MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: Pagekite - The fast, reliable localhost tunneling solution Miniontoby: vote your gang Miniontoby: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=24897 oil_boi: KIB Kill all bugs oil_boi: sfan5, texmex went above and beyond with this minimalistic site landing https://crafter.minetest.land/ sfan5: it looks good tho oil_boi: Is there a way to offset plantlike drawtype randomly? oil_boi: Is there get_objects_in_area yet? oil_boi: What is the meaning of life? rubenwardy: the persuit of happiness ANAND: ^ Lone_Wolf: We are all in a game ANAND: A game that's thankfully not as voxelly as Minetest :) Lone_Wolf: I do have to complement God on his outstanding graphics. Doesn't dent my FPS at all ANAND: :D yrungr: ANAND: irl has reeaally small voxels. oil_boi: :D oil_boi: If you had a class with data = {"something"=function(),"the_thing"=table} would it be faster to do data.players[playername] or data[playername]? oil_boi: Oh wait maybe I should just ask in #lua Kimapr: coming soon... Kimapr: ``` Kimapr: -------------------------------# MAPMEM #------------------------------- Kimapr: -- the minetest library to treat the map like RAM ---------------------- Kimapr: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kimapr: ``` Kimapr: (full text in https://paste.debian.net/1151621/) Kimapr: oops oil_boi: Doesn't it already do that? oil_boi: Kimapr, or are you talking about creating a list with voxelmanip indexing and then working from it using that? Kimapr: nope Kimapr: this is a library that allocates areas in worlds for various usages. Say you want to allocate an area to build a SkyWars arena, or a lobby Kimapr: you call mapmem.alloc(...) and teleport your admin in the resulting area Krock: call it "forceloadlib" Kimapr: no Kimapr: it's not that Krock: oh? Kimapr: it doesn't forceload anything Kimapr: just allocates them virtually oil_boi: I was thinking of doing something like that but I can't find a way to get if a chunk loads to add it to the memory pool Kimapr: it manages minetest map like a 2D RAM oil_boi: Oh so it creates MC chunks Kimapr: No Kimapr: it reserves arbitrary sized hozirontal rectangles of map Kimapr: (but they are mapchunk aligned, to make mapgen hooks simpler) Kimapr: it will also hook into mapgen to generate `ignore` borders around MapmemBlocks (a term that means areas that are reserved with mapmem) Kimapr: handy for minigames Kimapr: what do you think of that? Kimapr: (it also supports Y limits on MapmemBlocks, for convenience) Kimapr: it doesn't even use voxelmanips, except when you want to copy the areas Kimapr: when you alloc() a MapmemBlock it deletes all its area + a 1 chunk border on all sides Kimapr: Another cool thing about mapmem: No dependencies on MTG! (or any game/mod at all) Fabio23: Howdy oil_boi: Hey Fabio23 Kimapr: hi FabioPE: Hi Kimapr: why two accounts simultaniously? oil_boi: He's cloning :O FabioPE: I'm asking myself if i could use ngrok to expose a local minetest server to play with friends oil_boi: That's Fabio Pocket Edition, the lighter weight Fabio for mobile devices Kimapr: lol Kimapr: i don't know how ngrok works Kimapr: FabioPE: ngrok is HTTP only oil_boi: Define: ngrok FabioPE: Sorry for the double join, i'm using duckduckgo mobile browser to access the IRC, and the tab closed FabioPE: hmm Kimapr: you can try port forwarding if you can oil_boi: Or you can use hamachi if it's just with friends oil_boi: DO NOT use that for a server Kimapr: n o FabioPE: that's the reason why i'm asking about ngrok if Kimapr: minetest uses UDP Kimapr: HTTP is a web protocol on TCP FabioPE: i can't fordward ports on my router Kimapr: why? Kimapr: no admin password? FabioPE: no, there's no option to forward the ports Kimapr: your router is stupid trash Krock: turn expert mode on oil_boi: Comcast? FabioPE: yep FabioPE: what? FabioPE: what's Comcast? Kimapr: what is your router? oil_boi: What _is_ a router? FabioPE: Ubee Verticen_: What's comcast? It's like the worst telicoms provider in history Krock: US networking, according to Wikipedia FabioPE: Kimapr, my router trademark's Ubee Kimapr: oil_boi: router is the thing that routes your packets from you to some other computer and vice-versa Kimapr: FabioPE: model? oil_boi: Comcast locks out PF and enables a secondary network that's an open network so anyone can join Krock: so.. LAN party! oil_boi: Sort of, it's a literal second network detached from your primary one Kimapr: oil_boi: that's nasty Kimapr: FabioPE: i found this https://portforward.com/ubee/ oil_boi: Free wifi all across New Hampshire :D Krock: one that you could flood with packets to slow down the router - and with that, the secured network Kimapr: first item in ddg search FabioPE: I checked the page some time ago, but it's not compatible with the mine Kimapr: what is your model? FabioPE: Kimapr, the model is DVW324 Kimapr: try instructions for DVW 32* routers Kimapr: i noticed they have same instructions for them FabioPE: Thanks Kimapr: oh Kimapr: they have a different instruction for DVW3201B Kimapr: and DVW 3202B FabioPE: There's no Advanced tab Kimapr: 3102B* Kimapr: use Gateway tab then FabioPE: There's only Status, Firewall, VPN and Wireless tabs Kimapr: try Firewall FabioPE: Firewall have only Basic, Local Log an Remote log sub tabs Kimapr: try all until you find port forwarding or something that sounds similar Kimapr: oof FabioPE: Ok, thanks FabioPE: I will leave oil_boi: You can use find_nodes_in_area as simple collision detection :O MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Use multiple light positions for CAO lighting 133f0cbbc https://git.io/Jf9Kz (152020-06-11T19:13:26Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: content_cao: Do not expire visuals for texture updates 13f897941 https://git.io/Jf9Kg (152020-06-11T19:12:36Z) Kimapr: oil_boi: too simple. it won't work with non-cube nodes Kimapr: and it only checks for one node (correct me if i'm wrong) NetherEran: it does support a list of node names and groups Kimapr: feeding it a list of all walkable nodes will make it check for every walkable node registered Kimapr: that would make find_nodes_in_area too complex and slow as collision detection Kimapr: and worse than actual simple collision detection iamweasel: yeah, but does it run teh elden ring? iamweasel: mt finnwww: any minetest ppl here Verticen: no what's mine-tast? finnwww: minetest is like the off brand minecraft finnwww: What's this channel for? Verticen: (plenty of 'minetest people' are here) finnwww: cool sfan5: try /topic and read what it says Verticen: so this channel is where a lot of MT devs come and discuss projects Verticen: And, Minetest is more like a minecraft-like game engine rather than an off-brand minecraft. finnwww: Can I ask a Minetest question? Verticen: It's a "test" after all Verticen: no. No questions allowed. Thinking of answers is too hards finnwww: Fair enough finnwww: :) finnwww: CONNECT archlinux finnwww: darn Verticen: Seriously, though, If you ask a question, you can prolly get an aswer here, but you may have to be patient Verticen: Such is the nature of IRC finnwww: Ok. How can I make Minetest more survival-y? finnwww: In the style of Minecraft Verticen: Oh, So there are a number of options. If you want to go full minecraft-ish there is Mineclone 2 Verticen: https://wiki.minetest.net/Games/MineClone_2 Verticen: Which is the current best option for a 'freeware' minecraft finnwww: That's cool. I guess it doesn't have to be full Minecraftish, just a challenging survival game Verticen: There is also oil's "Crafter" project, which is still in very early alpha, but is making great strides Verticen: What you want to do though, is browse online content for "Games" Verticen: "Games" are modpacks for minetest Verticen: that form a complete package Verticen: Many can be directly DLed to Minetest thought the minetest online browser - very easy finnwww: Cool I will. I found some, but they always crash. Probably cause no one seems to be writing unit tests. calcul0n: you can also make a cool survival game by adding mods to minetest game Verticen: Oof. That can be somewhat common. well, make sure you are using the latest stable ver of Minetest - 5.2.0 I think is the latest one... Verticen: ..Then use the console or terminal output to try to determine which modpack is causing the crash. Disable that modpack and try again. Verticen: BTW Nodecore is a very popular survival game. You can check them out on #nodecore finnwww: I will Warr1024: :-) finnwww: Ooh it looks good skyliner_369: doesn't minetest conf have an entry for the name of your player? skyliner_369: it's... in the wiki. nevermind skyliner_369: can someone point me to the build bot for minetest? skyliner_369: nevermind, found it. turns out the last several builds failed. iamweasel: actually, i was thinking for a while extending rockweed with like house-building patterns iamweasel: generating a procedural random house with "rooms", "hallways", "floors", "balconies", "cellars", "towerettes", "courtyards" iamweasel: everything above may or may not be present iamweasel: pattern would allow to customize the foundation material, the windowpane material, the wall, the floor, the ceiling, etc materials iamweasel: roof would be the challenging part iamweasel: flat is easy i guess, but anything else is not, and there's gotta be a lot more else skyliner_369: Yeah, not the easiest to figure out the... for lack of the right name, node NBT data skyliner_369: I'm in vs19 and trying to figure out how to build the installer with WiX skyliner_369: wait... probably need to build the solution first. skyliner_369: so in the buildbot folder, in utils, for some reason, buildwin64.sh will make to 30% and then die, throwing out a mile of errors and aborting. hackerman: hello any core devs online, i have a bug to report that i would prefer to report privately Emerald2: Might be a tad early to catch the European devs. skyliner_369: what am I MISSING?! buildbot buildwin64 isn't working!!! and I can't tell why!!!!!! help?!?!?!?!?!?! hackerman: thanks Emerald Emerald2: If you hang around they might be here soon. hackerman: ok will do iamweasel: my day's 11hilite: watching a dirt monster getting stuck on a trampoline :D skyliner_369: I'm so mad I wanna curl up in bed and cry. Emerald2: lmao weasel Emerald2: Oof skyliner. :( Hopefully sfan or somebody can help you out soon. skyliner_369: I just wanna run the shellscript so I can zip up the version, put it in my gdrive, and play with my friends on the same really recent version... is that too much to ask? I'm the odd man out playing on Ubuntu Emerald2: Ubuntu ftw. :D skyliner_369: I don't wanna force my other friends to install visual studio (It's like 50 gigs) and cmake and vcpkg and so on skyliner_369: I just wanna tell them to "Unzip the file, and double-click minetest.exe" you know? skyliner_369: it might actually be why the gitlab pipeline is repeatedly failing. skyliner_369: or something. IDFK skyliner_369: I just wanna build a build for windows in a nice small zip file that doesn't have a fuckton of building files... just the exe, assets, and luas... sigh... Emerald2: You want to play the dev version instead of 5.2? skyliner_369: Emerald2: Yeah, Ubuntu is quite nice. most of my friends wanna stick to windows. and yeah I do wanna play the dev version with frens. 's pretty stable. has more features. skyliner_369: plus the 6ish changes to the content UI make a massive difference lol skyliner_369: maybe it's something wrong with make???? sfan5: if you just want a windows build of the dev version there's e.g. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17439 or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1523 skyliner_369: the gitlab pipeline failed/aborted the last... 7 builds sfan5: hm that should probably be fixed hackerman: sfan you are a core dev right? hackerman: i have a bug to report, but i would like to report it privately sfan5: yes, sure you can report it privately hackerman: how do i do that though? sfan5: you can message me privately on IRC for example hackerman: ok MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build error on Ubuntu 16.04 1364380cf https://git.io/JfSZk (152020-06-10T08:58:13Z) oil_boi: I say we bring back backwards compatibility for the old broken loading menus in 0.4.0 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build error on Ubuntu 16.04 (again) 1380d9e9c https://git.io/JfSCT (152020-06-10T09:46:14Z) skyliner_369: it's tested this time. if the 16.04 build fails again it's not the dev files, it's gitlab. sfan5: skyliner_369: uploaded a new build there skyliner_369: TYSM! sfan5: is some specific feature the reason why you wanted a new build? skyliner_369: version parody actually skyliner_369: I'd be the host because my PC is a 12 core thing. plus wired internet. sfan5: ...do you mean "parity"? skyliner_369: ... yes. skyliner_369: matching versions of minetest to maximize compatibility. skyliner_369: though now everyone's asleep sfan5: if you see an incompatibility between 5.2.0 and 5.3.0-dev that's a bug skyliner_369: makes sense. oil_boi: cornernote is still around? oil_boi: Oh 0.4.3, nevermind sfan5: oil_boi: the sneak model in crafter doesn't work anymore sfan5: player model I mean oil_boi: What doesn't work about it? sfan5: isn't the player supposed to visually crouch? oil_boi: Yes, it's working on my end :O oil_boi: Did you update both csm and server mod? I did some things with the CSM that enable safer practice so clients can't pretend to be the server sfan5: this is all that happens here https://0x0.st/iVtB.mp4 sfan5: crafter 31aeeb13137ecca0640332e5f95a615efd4dda5d, crafter_client 1e4589fdcd1b33e85aba6ca4132be6ebc6a8eff9 oil_boi: Your csm isn't loaded sfan5: hm oil_boi: sfan5, I now run these checks so the CSM doesn't crash on other game modes https://pastebin.com/raw/bG6tA7mn sfan5: oh I get it sfan5: I have csm_restriction_flags = 2 in my config and it doesn't like that oil_boi: Yerp, it's 0 for now so I can utilize all the features sfan5: # CHAT_MESSAGES: 2 (disable send_chat_message call client-side) sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ frabbit: wiki says the privilegs of the players from a server are stored in auth.txt but theres no such file. do i have to create it first? sfan5: since a few versions there is auth.sqlite instead sfan5: oil_boi: same debug output as yesterday this time from multiplayer: https://0x0.st/iVte.txt frabbit: yeah i thought that this is a replacement... ive never opened such file frabbit: why was it change from txt to binary? sfan5: performance, interopability frabbit: ok oil_boi: sfan5: Oh lawd frabbit: man this thing sucks... frabbit: how to edit this shit? sfan5: sqlite3, sqlitebrowser if you want a gui frabbit: no gui frabbit: ive found that too sfan5: if you really want to, you can migrate back to auth.txt using minetestserver --migrate-auth files frabbit: that browser thing frabbit: sfan5: will try sfan5: you run "sqlite3 auth.sqlite" to get an interactive shell, entering ".schema" shows you the schema and the rest is messing with sql frabbit: sfan5: yeah ive done this before ranting here... messing is the right word... D= frabbit: aww look at that beautiful easy to read and write txt file i got here now frabbit: sfan5: thx 4 ur help =) frabbit: can i just add all for a player to grant all rights? frabbit: example: celeron55:CcCUjNUDVJxmXmTHj+7WKHvA9Ds:all sfan5: no that doesn't work frabbit: ok then i will just use privs frabbit: so what is used now when i start the server again sqlite or txt? do i need to convert txt files back to sqlite or delete sqlite files? sfan5: you can delete the sqlite sfan5: (back it up ideally) frabbit: ok frabbit: is the game really that faster when that file is in sqlite? sfan5: if you have 100000 auth entries rewriting the entire txt file often can become a bottleneck frabbit: ok but that would be 100000 players then frabbit: or is there stored anything else frabbit: (my server is fresh here) sfan5: no idea, auth.txt is probably fast enough for most users frabbit: sfan5: ok =) thank you again frabbit: cool it works! frabbit: ^_^ frabbit: hmm.. passphrases of te players are stored somewhere else? frabbit: *the sfan5: it's those long unreadable strings in the auth file frabbit: hm.. so its what? encrypted in a plain text file? o_0 frabbit: i thougth that thing was the player id sfan5: not encrypted, hashed (well not exactly, but it's still not reversible like encryption is) frabbit: i see frabbit: hmm... is player related stuff stored somewhere else then in auth.txt? in players.sqlite for example? sfan5: auth only has the authentication data (password, privileges), you will find lots of the rest in players.sqlite frabbit: i have deleted a player from auth.txt after server shutdown. then i did a restart of the server and joined with a client as that deleted player, i need to type in the server passphrase again, but after joining im at the exact position i was with that player, before i deleted it form auth.txt frabbit: sfan5: i see =) frabbit: so: minetestserver --migrate-player files ? sfan5: it is possible to do that yes frabbit: ok. but that file i sprobably better as a sqlite right? frabbit: i mean for performance sfan5: yes sfan5: there are api functions to delete players if that's what you need frabbit: ok what does that mean? how to use that? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5212 frabbit: sfan5: i need to write that in a mod? sfan5: for example sfan5: not sure if there's a builtin command frabbit: hm but then its probaböy more easy for me to change the player.sqlite to a txt file edit it and the change it back to a sqlite file, is the last thing possible? oil_boi: Is there a way to set the texture mod of when the player gets damaged? ANAND: There's ObjectRef:set_texture_mod, but it's only supported for entities. ANAND: But you can look into the rather-newly introduced damage_texture_modifier object property ANAND: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/80d9e9c1834fdc78588ffe2842766c0177227786/doc/lua_api.txt#L6630 frabbit: sfan5: 2020-06-10 18:21:18: ERROR[Main]: Unknown command-line parameter "--migrate-player" frabbit: doesnt work Lone_Wolf: --help Lone_Wolf: Or, minetestserver --help | grep player frabbit: ok players frabbit: man there are small files.. are they growing bigger or something dont understand to not have them as txt files by default frabbit: can i force players with the server minetest.conf to have a specific graphic setting? connected glass for example or a specific texture pack. Lone_Wolf: For setting a default texturepack you can put the textures in a mod with an empty init.lua that depends on all the mods which register the textures it changes or you can put the textures in /Minetest/games/yourgame/textures/ frabbit: Lone_Wolf: and that will overwrite any client side texturepack? Lone_Wolf: No, it'll set the default though Lone_Wolf: Are you trying to fix players setting invisible textures or something? frabbit: Lone_Wolf: 18:34 < frabbit> can i force players with the server minetest.conf to have a specific graphic setting? connected glass for example or a specific texture pack. Lone_Wolf: A texturepack won't force connected glass, unless you removed the borders on the glass I guess\ frabbit: i talked about two different things as an example, please read the message... Lone_Wolf: You can't force connected glass Krock: actually I think you can Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L2790 Krock: see how it's "_optional"? Remove the optional part to force framed drawing Krock: modify all nodes that have this drawtype and you've kinda forced that setting Krock: same goes with leaves Lone_Wolf: ah, neat MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: sethome: Do not write empty homes file 13af045dc https://git.io/JfSMF (152020-06-10T18:29:50Z) oil_boi: Does on_leaveplayer get called at server shutdown? NetherEran_: I don't think it does, at least not when I was working on The End Lone_Wolf: on_shutdown is when it isn't a crash Lone_Wolf: I try not to depend on things happening at server shutdown rendeko: what is the most player model customization you can get out of Minetest right now? I see a Creatures mod that hasn't been updated in a while and 3d_armor. rendeko: also just found character_creator sfan5: the engine allows any player model with any texture sfan5: but your question was probably more towards mods that allow players to choose themselves rendeko: I was thinking about trying to make a moreplayermodels style mod where you can adjust the scale of any body part, but I'm not sure how minetest handles the player model erlehmann: https://mobile.twitter.com/mntmn/status/1270850257065324545?p=v https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaL3i_0X0AInFEL.jpg skyliner_369: I'm thinking about making a mod but I have a question... does minetest have any utilities for making multiblock structures? skyliner_369: More accurately, seeing if they're built. freelikegnu: skyliner_369: I think those are called schematics in MT freelikegnu: take a look at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=18515 freelikegnu: you can add metadata to nodes to keep track of structures freelikegnu: I don't know much more than that. oil_boi: What is the difference between a* and a*_noprefetch? oil_boi: Cost data, hmmm oil_boi: sfan5, I just made a rather, interesting discovery. With a*_noprefetch even with the interesting way it's implemented you can use it and cut corners making mob ai extremely intelligent Miniontoby: hey iamweasel: mew... i mean, hi! Miniontoby: moo Miniontoby: ye Miniontoby: thats cows for hello * iamweasel: does the characteristic weasel sound sfan5: oil_boi: by "cut corners" do you mean literally taking a straight path when the pathfinder would walk around a corner? Miniontoby: pathfinder? Is there a pathfinder? oil_boi: The pathfinding does not account for diagonal movement when there is an opportunity to and I have to fix that after the path data is unloaded into lua Miniontoby: btw Miniontoby: I need an spectator mode/account mod oil_boi: I need to make the ai check if it's a walkable regular collisionbox node Miniontoby: just an kind of replay mod in MC Miniontoby: *a Miniontoby: just you can record what on the whole server is happening Miniontoby: or just sfan5: might be worth adding diagonal walking to the engine pathfinder in the long term sfan5: s/might/would/ Miniontoby: an spectator mode Miniontoby: an spectator mode where you are invisible and you can fly though blocks and things Miniontoby: !up forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: forum.minetest.net:30000 seems to be down (IPv4) Miniontoby: !title forum.minetest.net MinetestBot: That's not a valid URL Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net/ MinetestBot: socket.timeout: The read operation timed out (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/ssl.py", line 631, in read) oil_boi: Yes that's very true, I noticed that pathfinding prefers one axis over the other as well oil_boi: Very interesting Miniontoby: !title https://forum.minetest.net/ Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: 504 Gateway Time-out oil_boi: !title google.com MinetestBot: That's not a valid URL MinetestBot: socket.timeout: The read operation timed out (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/ssl.py", line 631, in read) oil_boi: oh my gawd I broke it iamweasel: i never used it, but is that something like you want Miniontoby? https://github.com/minetest-mods/spectator_mode Miniontoby: that is not what I want Emerald2: Nah the forum is down. Miniontoby: ye Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: !up craft.ircnow.org:30003 MinetestBot: craft.ircnow.org:30003 is up (134ms) (IPv4) Miniontoby: !server addr:craft.ircnow.org port:30003 MinetestBot: Miniontoby: Wishful Springtime | craft.ircnow.org:30003 | Clients: 1/20, 0/2 | Version: 5.1.0 / minetest | Ping: 240ms Miniontoby: rubenwardy: Miniontoby: rubenwardy: what channel is your server connected with Miniontoby: !server port:30001 addr:vps.rubenwardy.com MinetestBot: Miniontoby: Capture the Flag [v2] - Test server with classes | vps.rubenwardy.com:30001 | Clients: 15/30, 8/23 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / capturetheflag | Ping: 22ms Miniontoby: 5.3.0? Miniontoby: wow Miniontoby: btw Miniontoby: I more like other irc servers than this one Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: comrad, how ya have a custom host comrad: registered an opensource project with the freenode staff Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: cool Miniontoby: btw Miniontoby: this ircserver is not able to do it the simplest way so yeah Miniontoby: cy comrad: what a nice pleasant minion oil_boi: :O oil_boi: I'm not sure what registering a project with the freenode staff means oil_boi: Hmm, you know, I thought about that for a second and I think my brain has finally burnt out oil_boi: How do you set a texture animation with "upright_sprite" sfan5: I think the set_sprite call can do that oil_boi: sfan5, self.object:set_sprite({x=1,y=math.random(1,8)}, 8, 0.05, false) on_activate yields: https://i.imgur.com/qhGtn3b.png oil_boi: Maybe I'm running the call incorrectly? sfan5: do you have spritediv set correctly? oil_boi: Yes sir oil_boi: initial_sprite_basepos = {x = 1, y = 1}, oil_boi: I think I'll have to run through a manual call to change the textures at this point oof oof sfan5: i'd try with {x = 1, y = 1} for both set_sprite and initial_sprite_basepos sfan5: other than that it sounds like it should work sfan5: ...meant to say {x = 0, y = 0} oil_boi: Oooooh, upright sprites don't act like upright sprites when they're attached anyways https://i.imgur.com/R2uZiAI.png oil_boi: damn sfan5: huh? sounds like you want the "sprite" visual instead oil_boi: Well yes but also no because where as it looks good here https://i.imgur.com/NzaUUMX.png above it uhhhh https://i.imgur.com/9HYsLXl.png sfan5: isn't that how it works in minecraft too? oil_boi: No, it's an upright sprite that follows the camera like the sprite does in MTE but it is upright, like the same style of particles in MTE "upright" sfan5: hm sfan5: I don't see the problem then sfan5: in mc -> https://a.uguu.se/XSK2vYJmyyhO_.09.02.png oil_boi: Yessir sfan5: another fun idea would be to use the wielditem visual with fire oil_boi: That gives me an idea oil_boi: So sfan5 I took your idea and ran crazy with it https://youtu.be/aiP9hLVLF70 oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: YouTube oil_boi: Well, that's technically correct sfan5: :D sfan5: burning mobs setting the player on fire sounds worth keeping if it isn't too laggy oil_boi: I just spawned 150 mobs all on fire and it seems to not lag too bad iamweasel: is fire only in singleplayer? i can't figure it out when i host game Lone_Wolf: You need to set enable_fire for multiplayer IIRC sfan5: you do yes sfan5: same for tnt iamweasel: in, like.... config? where do i do it for "host game" in gui? Lone_Wolf: Setiings menu MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: TouchScreenGUI: fix some bugs, cleanup 13b9f6187 https://git.io/JfyPP (152020-06-09T17:35:25Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: TouchScreen Control: fix some bugs, cleanup 130d8e5bf https://git.io/JfyP1 (152020-06-09T17:35:25Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix real keyboard movements on touchscreen devices 13756dc89 https://git.io/JfyPM (152020-06-09T17:35:25Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Hide tooltip after ETIE_LEFT_UP (for touch control) 133cee55f https://git.io/JfyPD (152020-06-09T17:35:25Z) Seirdy: one more technic question: does anybody know what the "constructor" machine does? can't find any docs... MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest: LuaItemStack: Add __tostring metamethod (#8785) 13b16f841 https://git.io/JfyP9 (152020-06-09T17:37:25Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04hecktest -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix player-to-object attachment teleport bug (#10008) 1309e285f https://git.io/JfyPH (152020-06-09T17:36:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04NetherEran -> 03minetest/minetest: Some vector functions useful for working with rotations (#9572) 137148834 https://git.io/JfyPb (152020-06-09T17:38:39Z) Krock: meerrringg Krock: Seirdy: constructs nodes Krock: put in stuff it should place in front of it Krock: use mesecons pistons to create an automated builder Krock: or movestones, perhaps? Seirdy: Krock: how does it compare with the pipeworks autocrafter? Krock: incomparable Krock: autocrafter crafts like you're doing it in the inventory Krock: but the constructor only places them. no crafting. Seirdy: Krock: got it Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! yrungr: https://github.com/random-geek/MapEdit < this looks very cool. modify the game sqlite database from the command line. iamweasel: !cookie iamweasel: !trout oil_boi: !fortune Lone_Wolf: !parrot oil_boi: !dankmemes Lone_Wolf: I guess this is the reason why those dont exist lol Emerald2: !botsnack Emerald2: lol MinetestBot: 02[git] 04dcbrwn -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix broken coloring of wielditems (#9969) 13fe3e69e https://git.io/Jfyyc (152020-06-09T19:38:09Z) sfan5: oil_boi: btw since the current crafter tagline is "multiplayer update": there are multiple places where optimization is needed to avoid multiplayer networking issues (these are invisible in singleplayer) sfan5: simple example: crafter apparently sets the eye offset 25 times a second, I don't think it changes at all though sfan5: I can give you advice and/or help with this ofc Zughy: hey there people. How can I block someone to receive a message? I saw there is register_on_chat_message, but is there something similare like on_receive? I can't find it Zughy: *from receiving sfan5: is this CSM? Zughy: on a server sfan5: register_on_chat_message can return true to eat the message, you can then manually deliver to message to everyone *except* the target oil_boi: Of course sfan5 oil_boi: I'd be happy to hear them oil_boi: I'll take a look at the offset oil_boi: Oooookay I see what you mean oil_boi: I think the ideology now is "listen, and don't speak until spoken to" server wise sfan5: hm, upright_sprites really do not support animation oil_boi: That's life oil_boi: Would you look at that, zoom now works smoother oil_boi: Ok sfan5 I implemented that one, I didn't actually realize that the zoom was that smooth actually oil_boi: I noticed that the player moves smoother as well in 3rd person, maybe I can link a global function to tell a local function in player api when to update the mesh, I'll check the data usage sfan5: interesting oil_boi: I reviewed the data usage in singleplayer with player api and I nearly choked on my vape sfan5: alright I made animations work for upright_sprite \o/ sfan5: oil_boi: here's some debug output https://0x0.st/iVWr.txt oil_boi: It's a miracle! sfan5: apart from TOCLIENT_ACTIVE_OBJECT_MESSAGES (which is further broken apart in the second table), AO_CMD_UPDATE_POSITION and AO_CMD_ATTACH_TO you might want to investigate why those other values are so high oil_boi: Because the server step is 0.01 methinks sfan5: !c 748 * 0.01 MinetestBot: 7.48 sfan5: hm oil_boi: Ooooh eye offset! oil_boi: I just pushed an update client and server mod for that sfan5: i didn't git pull yet so don't worry about that sfan5: in fact I'm still on the "Overhaul fire" commit oil_boi: set_animation_speed 11890 holy moly sfan5: oh that reminds me oil_boi: I implemented proactive data conservation into player_api sfan5: for that test run I didn't enable the client mod so it doesn't show up in there oil_boi: It can be used in MTG oil_boi: Also: Well hopefully you see way less local network usage in a singleplayer/local server sfan5: nice oil_boi: I'll try to cobble together a pr for MTG oil_boi: #2698 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2698 -- Show default text-based header in main menu when header.png is not present oil_boi: Wat oil_boi: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2698 oil_boi: Much better seeing "sending data" when I press/let go of a button rather than seeing nothing but that in my console sfan5: using a global table would be simpler than meta sfan5: making it local to api.lua like player_sneak is probably enough in fact oil_boi: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ oil_boi: Time to try again! sfan5: hm actually oil_boi: Oh my, I already demolished it sfan5: player_api.set_animation only calls player:set_animation if the animation name is different sfan5: is that different in Crafter's copy of player_api? oil_boi: Oh you're right actually oil_boi: It's about to be oil_boi: I think I'm thinking too many steps ahead in my own game Zeth_: Hmmmm Zeth_: so whenever I press one of the mentioned keys, I get: Could not find EKEY_CODE, ising orig. X11 keycode instead: 11 now this happens whenever I type something in textbox. Can I set minetest.conf to use those X11 keycodes somehow? oil_boi: sfan5, this will be your cape https://i.imgur.com/itZKVdr.png sfan5: :D sfan5: hope it doesn't explode when someone sets it on fire oil_boi: Hmmmm, that's not a bad idea :P sfan5: Zughy: minetest.deserialize("return {x=5,y=5,z=5}") will give you the position as a lua table sfan5: just like you'd expect sfan5: if you are writing this data to the file yourself you should consider using minetest.pos_to_string and minetest.string_to_pos however Zughy: huh, I wasn't aware of string_to_pos Zughy: ty sfan5 leo_rockway: oil_boi: trying to start a new world is really really really difficult now. It was snowing so I got surrounded by snowmen and sneepers right away. I managed to chop a few trees, then died. leo_rockway: I started a new world and I hid right away. Built a door and a crafting table and I'll try to survive, haha. oil_boi: Oh sorry leo_rockway that's part of the spawning catch up test! oil_boi: I'll lower that later :) oil_boi: I forgot to add you to the cape list, but I'll do that later :D leo_rockway: oil_boi: cape list? oil_boi: Oh yes, start a local server with oilboi or sfan5 or tacotexmex and you'll see it in third person mode, I made it so it flows like there's actually wind erlehmann: is there a way to make minetset work with 5% to 10% packet loss? erlehmann: TCP-based things and other UDP-based things do not have problems erlehmann: but minetest becomes really laggy sfan5: decreasing resend timers might help sfan5: good luck diving into connection.cpp and connectionthreads.cpp erlehmann: sfan5, is there some kind of server side config option that can be tuned? sfan5: doubt it pere: hi. with minetest, one is like robinson without friday. is there any hope to get a minetest release where the kids do not feel all alone in the default setup? Krock: who's robinson? Krock: I don't know this fairy tale Krock: the default setup is very simple. Install fancy mods like mobs_redo (and its family), dreambuilder (if you want lots of building stuff), or mesecons if they're tech-interested Krock: and the default setup isn't going to change because it is used for creative and hardcore survival servers as a base to build upon Krock: ^ pere pere: Krock: the top hit when I search for 'robinson friday' is :) pere: Krock: ok. the effect of such minimum default setup was that my kids felt alone and lost interest, which I find sad. Krock: that's the result of trying to satisfy all use-cases Krock: there are also other games (aside the default minetest_game) in the forums Krock: these are usually gameplay-focussed, thus might offer some better experience without that you need to collect mods (though it's now quite easy in the main menu) rubenwardy: I don't recommend dreambuilder, it contains a lot of inconsistent stuff rubenwardy: I play using this modpack: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/dev_plays_minetest Krock: gonna make my own game which is basically the old minimal and call it "dev_plays_minetest2" rubenwardy: lol rubenwardy: it's a play on the fact that devs don't actually ever play MT Krock: well, I do play MT to fix bugs MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: devtest: Improve tool and formspec usability 13a21f9bb https://git.io/JfD5J (152020-06-08T19:17:40Z) pere: Krock: the kids are focusing on minecraft now. and they love mods, but there the default is exciting and inspiring, not solitude and with minimal possibilities. why would a more comprehensive default make it hard for those that want the minimum? can they not as easily turn options off, as you claim kids can turn options on? Krock: never ending questions sfan5: Shipping the engine with more and different games out of the box is planned, however I don't think a default game that would impress Minecraft players is happening anytime soon. sfan5: there's some ongoing discussion over the default game since it is (as you correctly noted) pretty mimimal and it also looks like it's going nowhere sfan5: so in an effort to stop everyone from focusing on the default game it's been discussed to ship more games (or alternatively none at all, after all the Content menu makes it easy to download some) sfan5: that said I can suggest taking a look at MineClone2 for a more complete experience yrungr: i like that the minetest default is simple, it lets the devs focus on the engine. yrungr: i see minetest as an engine, mods and games provide the content. yrungr: if work started on expanding the default game you might never hear the end of it. pere: I guess the question is if you want to gain a young and enterprising user base. you know, get them while they are young. :) pere: btw, the default graphic impressed the kids, as it is quicker and clearer than the default minecraft on their computers. :) yrungr: i like the idea of shipping games with minetest. mineclone2 would be a great choice. pere: btw, do the server care about which modules the client use? My freedombox have minetest support, and I wonder if it would handle modules enabled on the clients. sfan5: the part about graphics is interesting, I haven't played MC in a long time but I've always felt that the textures in minetest_game are a bit lacking pere: also, would running and swimming need to be implemented in the engine, or could it be done using a mod? sfan5: there are some (currently experimental) clientmods, other than that it's the server that dictates the game/mods used (you don't need to install them on the client) yrungr: pere: have you tried mineclone2 yet? pere: nope. I use minetest from debian. sfan5: running and swimming should(?) already be possible with what the engine currently provides pere: I am not a huge fan of downloading executable code from the internet without careful consideration and quality control. yrungr: pere: mineclone2 is very similar to minecraft. i run it on a server for my friends. Krock: that's scripts and they're pretty much sandboxed pere: aha. I tried the ctrl key to run, but nothing happened. Krock: W + E to run. needs fast, and fast_mode enabled Krock: HJ or K key by default Krock: dunno. check ESC menu Krock: space to swim, in case that was not obvious pere: Krock: that did not appear as swimming, just "up" like in minecraft. swimming is running in water. sfan5: pere: don't worry, the client only downloads media and structural definition from the server; all Lua code runs server-side Krock: up + forward? it's like crawling Krock: unless you meant diving pere: did not mean diving. :) leo_rockway: pere: AFAIK, there's no swimming like in Minecraft, not even through mods. leo_rockway: it might be possible to mod it, though, but nobody has done it yet. leo_rockway: pere: also, I don't think Minecraft had swimming originally. pere: ack. it was one of the new minecraft features one of the kids were entusiastic about recently. :) leo_rockway: yeah, I agree it looks pretty good. I never really played Minecraft, but I've used the demo to report feature bugs to MineClone2. Krock: !mod swimming MinetestBot: Krock: There are no results for this query :( Krock: !mod swim MinetestBot: Krock: There are no results for this query :( Krock: whatever. use boats. freelikegnu: is there a way to check if a file exists in my mods folder without mod security having a fit? freelikegnu: ah nevermind I found another solution.. Krock: I presume that's only possible on load time leo_rockway: Krock: well, in Minecraft the underwater world boomed. They have sunken ships, algae, drowned mobs, dolphins, coral, underwater ruins. A boat is not enough. Krock: leo_rockway: so it's diving after all Krock: !mod diving MinetestBot: Krock: Breath underwater like scuba diving [underwater] by fergoy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18378 - https://github.com/fergoy/underwater/blob/master/underwater_mod.zip leo_rockway: Krock: yeah, MC calls it swimming. leo_rockway: if you "run" underwater, your avatar moves horizontally and faster. Krock: swimming happens above the surface, diving below Krock: if Minecraft describes both as swimming it's somewhat confusing leo_rockway: it is Krock: there's also a pitch move feature. might also be exposed to the key change menu in-game Krock: switches from regular movement to camera rotation-based movement Krock: - off - Calinou: Map Tools 2.1.0 released: https://github.com/minetest-mods/maptools/releases/tag/v2.1.0 Calinou: also, I can't unsee the "search" icon being misaligned in the creative mod :P Calinou: I'll try to fix it thefamilygrog: howdy folks gate32[m]: thefamilygrog: 👋 orbea: someone gave me this backtrace with minetest 5.2.0 where it crashes when starting the client. Says it didn't happen with 5.1.1 and I can't reproduce it. Does it look familiar to anyone? http://ix.io/2oFO iamwease1: i saw some discussion about server status earlier iamweasel: is there a way to just show one server status rather than all of them at https://servers.minetest.net/ ? oil_boi: sfan5: try this https://github.com/oilboi/minetest/tree/sneaking_fix_for_good oil_boi: It's not done yet, but the basic implementation is in there oil_boi: Eventually, this would allow for entities to sneak oil_boi: I am having trouble with sudden jolts coming around corners, but it's looking promising oil_boi: Ok sfan5 I just pushed stage 4 of the sneaking fix and now you can actually hang off the sides of everything properly oil_boi: VanessaE: It works pretty well now, I just have to have the code check if the nearest collisionbox that the player is near is able to bridge the length between the current axis length to the next length and then it will work great oil_boi: VanessaE: these are examples of the current precision point of sneaking upgraded https://imgur.com/a/wMbkfD8 SeBarosanul: Minetest has 30FPS but my GPU and CPU utilisation is close to 10%. Any solutions? oil_boi: SeBarosanul: yes oil_boi: SeBarosanul: at the main menu go to settings oil_boi: SeBarosanul: click all settings, then search FPS oil_boi: Crank them up oil_boi: Also, you have to double click the settings in that menu ANAND: I don't think MT has a 30 FPS cap, does it? Emerald2: I normally get up to 60 FPS. Krock: SeBarosanul: change your screen settings to 144 Hz Krock: and if you're on a 10-core Intel CPU without hyperthreading, that's the most CPU usage you can get Krock: though that's ^ unlikely SeBarosanul: I'm not SeBarosanul: I'm on a dual core I7-7500U Krock: omg luck. https://i.imgur.com/3xNV6Ot.png Krock: wrong channel Krock: okay, that's weird. should surely be around 50% for full usage then SeBarosanul: I don't have a 144hz monitor SeBarosanul: No it's really low. SeBarosanul: And the frames are like 30-25 SeBarosanul: With the limit 61 Krock: SeBarosanul: I'd recommend to check the screen settings anyway SeBarosanul: Minecraft has absolutely no problem. SeBarosanul: I can hit 90 with no issue. Krock: you could try vsync = false in minetest.conf SeBarosanul: It's off Krock: linux or windows? SeBarosanul: Windows SeBarosanul: 10 Krock: okay, then I'd have to look up whether there are any further limits SeBarosanul: 64-bit Krock: bbl SeBarosanul: I'll try turning off the limits completely. oil_boi: Crank those settings to the Xtr3m3 oil_boi: Oh and turn off shaders texmex: I had a similar experience on Windows, though with a weaker CPU but with 2.5x number of fps on other OS oil_boi: texmex: Jetpack time https://youtu.be/4mlzq5TL__s oil_boi: So is entity glowing broken? sfan5: is it? oil_boi: Yurp oil_boi: No glowing spider eyes :( NetherEran: I think it is too NetherEran: ran into that yesterday sfan5: oh yes indeed sfan5: please open a bug oil_boi: Bug man, awaaaaaaaay oil_boi: I can't wait until that's fixed, the spider's eyes are now an individual entity on the spider's head and they glow :D :D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: GenericCAO: Fix glow not working since a08d18a 138fc9e7e https://git.io/JfM1G (152020-06-07T12:17:32Z) SeBarosanul: I set the limit to a very high number, it's all good now. SeBarosanul: However, at night everything is very very dark. SeBarosanul: How do I increase the brightness? Krock: display_gamma = 4 Krock: ambient_occlusion_gamma = 3 Krock: ^ SeBarosanul Calinou: we should change the default display_gamma to be brighter Calinou: defaults are way too dark now, even on monitors with poor contrast rates olliy: i did set both gamma to that but still cant see very well Krock: problem is that there are only 16 light levels Krock: more would make it way more natural (harder to get into pitch black areas) SeBarosanul: I tried that Krock SeBarosanul: Only made the sky lighter. SeBarosanul: Why does the game throttle so mich if it hits the max FPS? SeBarosanul: Also does the game not allow you to punch with your hand? SeBarosanul: Oh nvm SeBarosanul: It only works sometimes ANAND: Krock: display_gamma affects only the sky brightness, from my experience ANAND: I understand why it was "nerfed" but I'd rather prefer over-brightness to blindness. :( leo_rockway: oil_boi: I just watched the spider video and the jetpack video. Nice! oil_boi: Thanks :D Emerald2: Yeah I need more brightness since I have trouble seeing in the first place. XD oil_boi: Is there a way to get objects attached to a player/object from the parent object? Krock: detach, attach appguru: something is really fishy here appguru: been adding a get_item_defs() func to CSM appguru: works fine using push_item_definition, but segfaults if using push_item_definition_full appguru: some of those called push_* functions gotta be messing up muh stack appguru: push_tool_capabilities is the culprit :D appguru: #10005 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10005 -- CSM: get_item_def crashes Minetest erlehmann: rubenwardy, how can i download the minetest book in html? erlehmann: rubenwardy, the release contains only markdown erlehmann: rubenwardy, nvm i used „wget --mirror -p“ to download your entire website rubenwardy: erlehmann: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/minetest_modding_book/-/jobs/537895724/artifacts/download?file_type=archive rubenwardy: from https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/minetest_modding_book/-/pipelines erlehmann: oh thx erlehmann: too late though ;) leo_rockway: oil_boi: great job on the burning feature! oil_boi: Thanks! oil_boi: I gotta make it check if you're out in the open when raining extinguishes your fire MinetestBot: macc24_: Jun-06 20:15 UTC I recommend you use something better than WeeChat sfan5: still don't understand what appguru meant by that macc24_: appguru: nah, it was my computer macc24_: launched xonotic and it ran out of ram macc24_: 4gb of ram sucks MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix Lua panic when error() message is not a string 1309f9e46 https://git.io/JfM7z (152020-06-07T16:14:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04dcbrwn -> 03minetest/minetest: Recalculate mesh normals for CAOs (#10000) 13fe1f72a https://git.io/JfM7g (152020-06-07T16:14:00Z) leo_rockway: weechat is awesome. appguru: weechat is chinese appguru: sfan5: the leave message said "weechat" sfan5: yeah but sfan5: wechat is the chinese app sfan5: weechat is a FOSS terminal IRC client appguru: ah lol Krock: weebchat is the chat among cultured people appguru: they should probably work on their choice of name :P appguru: that said, we should too Emerald2: 'wee' means 'small' leo_rockway: appguru: not the same weechat. leo_rockway: oh, wechat is the chinese one, right. What sfan5 said. erlehmann: Emerald2, actually, “wee” comes from “oui”, which is french for “defeat”! Emerald2: So you haven't heard any Scottish people talking about the wee (little) cows? appguru: No MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Reset touching_ground when in free_move 130ab5808 https://git.io/JfMN7 (152020-06-07T18:45:26Z) Zeth_: Hello again minetesters, so new version is out and yet, I'm still having problems with the fact that my keyboard layout is not us...And of course the GUI menu is not allowing me to rebind the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, keys at all. Angry ranting aside, is there a way to set them to XK_plus, XK_ecaron, XK_scaron, XK_ccaron, XK_rcaron, XK_zcaron, XK_yacute, XK_aacute, XK_iacute and XK_eacute Zeth_: respectively? sfan5: you might be able to do that by rebinding keymap_slot1 to keymap_slot10 in the .conf file Zeth_: Hmm...yeah that could be it. erlehmann: rubenwardy, your book helped a lot rubenwardy: yay Zeth_: what book? OwO rubenwardy: !book MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Minetest Modding Book - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/ rubenwardy: Zeth_ ^ Zeth_: sfan5: Unfortunately didn't work, got bunch of "Unknown key" errors but according to irrlicht documentation it doesn't even have the keysyms I specified Zeth_: Yeah...seems like I either need some sort of wrapper, or to edit the array with keysyms and keycodes for irrlicht, then compile minetest against it. Or you know yell at someone loud enough until they enable people rebind the number keys through gui... Zeth_: Of course what drives me up the wall the most that windows version doesn't seem to have such problem what so ever... MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Jun-05 19:13 UTC [hudbars] How can I get the amount of displayed hudbars, or the total dimensions? MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Jun-05 21:20 UTC hi. in this commit https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/commit/d1d7c026e19c0802b3f471321979dbb241fdd774 you made buckets no longer liquids_pointable. is there a plan to make buckets work again? Wuzzy: Krock: you can't. Wuzzy: yrungr: buckets still work Wuzzy: yrungr: why do you imply they don't work? yrungr: because they weren't working. yrungr: i reverted to the commit before and now they do. Wuzzy: What do you mean, they don't work? yrungr: i point at the lava source, click mouse2 and nothing happens. Wuzzy: the liquid is now places at the pointed SOLID node yrungr: pardon? Wuzzy: its possible you pointed somehow deeper into the lava... yrungr: nope. yrungr: i have a screenshot. Wuzzy: Liquids get placed ON TOP of the node you point on now Wuzzy: and only solid nodes are pointable now Wuzzy: not liquid ones Wuzzy: This change was made because someone claimed that this is MC behavior yrungr: i'm not not talking about putting lava down, i'm talking about picking it up. Wuzzy: oh crap yrungr: http://mine.grue.world/images/lava.png Wuzzy: bug confirmed Wuzzy: 🙁 yrungr: cool. Wuzzy: ok thanks for important, it was stupid of me to not test the empty bucket as well yrungr: glad i could help. Wuzzy: maybe I'll just make the empty bucket liquid_pointable while keeping the others untouched yrungr: that sounds like it would work. Wuzzy: hmm it would be certainly odd if you can take a liquid that is "behind" another liquid Wuzzy: although that would be another option yrungr: Wuzzy: btw, thank you so much for the work you do on mineclone2. my friends and are having so much fun with it. :) oil_boi: Hm, so what if we just move sneaking into collision.cpp? oil_boi: sfan5, an update, it works, I just gotta work out how to stop the player from not being able to sneak past their current node oil_boi: Ooooo, I think I found a way, in the ending of collision.cpp you can gain access to all the nodes a player could stand on, let's see if I can work with this sfan5: oil_boi: nice Vili71: Hey, I am running Minetest as a server on ubuntu 20.04 and was wondering how do I use server commands from terminal without actually starting the client? Vili71: I start the server with minetest --server heavygale: ENABLE_CURSES=ON - Build with (n)curses; Enables a server side terminal (command line option: --terminal) Vili71: If I try to use --terminal I see an error "ERROR[Main]: Cmd arg --terminal passed, but compiled without ncurses. Ignoring." Vili71: I see that the defaultis ON Vili71: If I will build this my self how do I set the ENABLE_CURSES? Vili71: Default is already ON heavygale: but is it available on yout system? did you check the output of ./configure? maybe it didn't found it Vili71: What do you mean? Do I have to install curses? heavygale: depends on your os Vili71: ubuntu 20.04 Krock: libncurses5, libncurses5-dev Krock: probably Vili71: Ok did "apt-get install libncurses5-dev libncursesw5-dev" Vili71: But same message when starting server heavygale: did you recompile it? Vili71: Minetest? No I installed it from binaries but I still see that is should be enabled as the default is ON or am I wrong on that? Krock: > Cmd arg --terminal passed, but compiled without ncurses. Ignoring." Krock: > but compiled Krock: this means the computer that compiled Minetest (where you got it from) did not have ncurses installed Krock: this means you need to compile Minetest manually Vili71: Ok so the default value is not ON but I have to compile it and set it to ON Krock: first set it to ON, then compile. yes. Krock: https://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest Vili71: ok. It seems my current version is installed from snap. Can I save the worlds by just copying the files? Vili71: or games Krock: if your worlds and games are in ~/.minetest then you don't need to copy them somewhere else Krock: nonetheless, backups are surely not a wrong thing to do Vili71: not there. They are deep in the snap directory Krock: no idea where that is, but I recommend moving them just to be sure Vili71: Yeah. Before snap I could actually find something in ubuntu even though I am not that good with it Vili71: I presume it is enough to copy the /worlds directory Krock: though I don't think packages will clean up user data unless you explicitly tell them to do so Vili71: I think I will remove the snap version if I compile own Emerald2: I installed minetest from the Ubuntu PPA. https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable yrungr: Vili71: i've got a backup script that makes copies of the sqlite database files even while the server is running. one sec... yrungr: Vili71: https://github.com/yrungr/mineclone2_tools/blob/master/bin/backup.sh yrungr: if you copy the files while the server is running you will probably end up with corrupted files. yrungr: this script uses sqlite to make a copy of the sqlite database files and then compresses them. yrungr: and it works while the server is running. Vili71: Thanks. Server is offline so it should not be a problem. These are so called family servers. For my and neighbors kids yrungr: nice. yrungr: i have a cron job set up to run this script automatically. Vili71: At least now I see the ENABLE_CURSES:BOOL=ON yrungr: Vili71: the server terminal thing sounds interesting. Vili71: Yeah I am planning to use it to give stuff to players to help them out. They like the survival mode but prefer to get easier start with stuff yrungr: Vili71: i like survival mode. i think you get more enjoyment from the things you build when you feel like you earned it. Vili71: Yeah. Kids still too young. Maybe in couple of years tf2ftw: my kid (5 yo) freaked the f out the first time he saw the tree monster mob. We had to turn that one off :) Vili71: We got Mineclone game running Vili71: LuaJIT.. Should I use it? I installed it but cmake does not find it Emerald2: You can have players start with a specific set of items. Vili71: Yeah not sure where to start with that yet Emerald2: Servers commonly give new players some steel tools, torches and a bit of food. Vili71: Trying to find an example somewhere.. Maybe that would be better way Emerald2: Yeah sorry I don't remember how it's done. erlehmann: anyone knows if mineclone2 oder the pontoons mod break picking up water with a bucket lately? Krock: "break" as in "error and shutdown the server"? sfan5: someone asked about https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/commit/d1d7c026e19c0802b3f471321979dbb241fdd774 yesterday Wuzzy: yes Krock: Wuzzy: 2020-06-06 16:07:10: WARNING[Server]: Deprecated usage of statbar without size! (at [..]/mods/hudbars/init.lua:203) Wuzzy: 🙁 erlehmann: Krock, we just can not pick up water sfan5: https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/commit/56d49e08b ...is there a reason for this fix? Wuzzy: omg... duuudes Wuzzy: calm down, everyone Wuzzy: It will be fixed in next version, OK? Krock: that's what you get by using different engine and builtin versions Wuzzy: ??? Wuzzy: I don't understand Krock: get_connected_players removed from builtin, but using an older binary that does not have it implemented Wuzzy: Why would anyone want to use an incompatible builtin???? Wuzzy: Someone must have been trying to deliberately break builtin. it doesnt make sense sfan5: there is no reason to delay calling get_connected_players() either way Wuzzy: ... Krock: sfan5: well, calling it in init time logs a deprecation warning Wuzzy: I still think get_connnected_players should just return {} instead of nil. its so annoying otherwise Krock: so that's probably there to avoid the log mesage Krock: it returns a table Krock: at least in the current master build it does Wuzzy: Wait. the deprecation warning is fake?? omgggggg Krock: it's not fake sfan5: oh sfan5: it *does* return {} at load time though sfan5: but yeah you get a warning sfan5: totally forgot about that Wuzzy: LOL Wuzzy: yes please remove the pointless warning then erlehmann: if someone wanted to have a web interface for the server to show e.g. how many players are on it or a map, how would that work? erlehmann: is there a drop-in solution? rubenwardy: see https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21999 rubenwardy: it contains player markers and more rubenwardy: not sure on performance erlehmann: thx rubenwardy erlehmann: rubenwardy, is there also some kind of API to ask the server stuff like how many ppl are online, e.g. over http? rubenwardy: you can use the server list rubenwardy: there's also my metrics API rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/public_minetest_metrics sfan5: mods generally can't expose e.g. a HTTP server but you can make them push data to elsewhere rubenwardy: ie: https://minetest.rubenwardy.com/metrics?server=ctf.rubenwardy.com:30001 rubenwardy: if it's your server, you can use prometheus Vili71: Emerald2 Alright it was quite simple to make a small mod to give stuff on respawn Vili71: Just made a folder in /mods and added init.lua with minetest.register_on_respawnplayer(function(player) Vili71: player:get_inventory():add_item("main","mcl_tools:pick_iron") SKCro: Hi MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add HTTP API to main menu (#9998) 1360bab8b https://git.io/JfMvA (152020-06-06T16:17:08Z) Wuzzy: Calinou: Can you please honour the wiki requests? Some players have been waiting since Oct 2019. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10473 Wuzzy: Calinou: If you don't have time for Minetest stuff anymore, maybe you should give a trusted core dev control over the wiki, one that will honour wiki requests faster rubenwardy: doesn't need to be a core dev, could be someone who is trusted and already uses the wiki lots rubenwardy: 👀 Wuzzy: 'trusted' is the keyword, yea rubenwardy: I'd trust you rubenwardy: alternatively, the captchas could be fixed MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix incorrect extension used for ContentDB thumbnails 1336099ba https://git.io/JfMUm (152020-06-06T17:31:39Z) Calinou: Wuzzy: I can't give other people administrator privileges Calinou: but to those who can, feel free to add more people Wuzzy: 🙁 Wuzzy: who are those people? Calinou: no idea :/ appguru: celeron55 got to have an idea Calinou: I made accounts for all pending requests but one of them is someone who didn't get the original email Calinou: since the account is already created, I can't create a new one with a manually assigned password I'd PM to them :( celeron55: hmm, the wiki account situation is a lacking for sure appguru: WeeChat 2.8 seems to support IRC appguru: !tell macc24_ I recommend you use something better than WeeChat MinetestBot: appguru: yeah, sure, whatever sfan5: huh? appguru: #10003 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10003 -- Inventory image render-to-texture (texture modifier + store_texture) by appgurueu MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Restore visual_scale support for nodeboxes (and allfaces) (#9906) 13e746607 https://git.io/JfMLp (152020-06-06T20:25:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: creative: Update for compatibility with minetest.creative_is_enabled … 136d2a897 https://git.io/JfMmj (152020-06-06T22:15:35Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ubulem -> 03minetest/minetest: Show Toast in UI thread and fix unpacking on Android 10 (#9900) 1387b25e5 https://git.io/JfXxl (152020-06-05T01:22:19Z) FrostRanger: Been having some sound issues where occasionally the sound will work but 9 times out of 10 it won't FrostRanger: here's the output of when I ran mt with verbose: https://pastebin.com/mUE85FvW FrostRanger: (yes, I checked that sound is enabled and not muted and even toggled them off and on several times for good measure) freelikegnu: damnit... I tried vscodium freelikegnu: shit is crack benrob0329: Anyone know if there are any docs for how mapgen seeds are generated from map_meta.txt? sfan5: FrostRanger: how does "sound won't work" manifest exactly? sfan5: I mean sure you won't have sound, but what do you test to determine that? oil_boi: A note for broken sneaking, wouldn't doing a check to see if your character collision box crosses over a box, then running through the ones that your collision box is currently over and find the one closest to your character and use that box as the sneaking platform? sfan5: probably/maybe/who knows sfan5: I spent lots of time looking at sneaking in 2016(?) and it's still broken the way it is oil_boi: sfan5, when I finish implementing sheep I will take a look at the code again and see if I can find a way to import the nodeboxes into the collision detection, or, rework sneaking entirely and specifically use the collision detection call purely oil_boi: I must first finish sheep because they're cute texmex: freelikegnu: crack indeed oil_boi: Another MC sound hidden from mojang's credits because it's NC https://freesound.org/people/acclivity/sounds/39947/ oil_boi: sfan5, I have added in sheep and overhauled the mob spawning algorithm along with the global mob count so the spawning algorithm will try to crank out mobs if it's too low MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Implement searching for translated names in creative inventory (#2675) 13b1ab8d5 https://git.io/Jf1cv (152020-06-05T12:29:34Z) iamwease1: i wish there was a sneak toggle, holding shift all the time is tricky MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: TestBan: Clean up properly after completing test (#9994) 1308c0b76 https://git.io/Jf12v (152020-06-05T18:04:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix HUD scaling (#9721) 137ec0e3d https://git.io/Jf1VW (152020-06-05T19:42:33Z) yrungr: i have a question about mineclone2. https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/commit/d1d7c026e19c0802b3f471321979dbb241fdd774 < in this commit it was changed so buckets are not longer liquid_pointable. anyone have any guess why that would have been done and how water/lava might be picked up now? sfan5: the code can detect that you rightclicked on a node and it can "guess" which liquid you wanted to pick up sfan5: not perfect of course yrungr: strange that wuzzy disabled it. sfan5: though if you use a raycast you could make it work close to perfectly yrungr: is there a tool to leave messages for people on this channel? sfan5: you can use !tell yrungr: thank you. yrungr: !tell wuzzy hi. in this commit https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/commit/d1d7c026e19c0802b3f471321979dbb241fdd774 you made buckets no longer liquids_pointable. is there a plan to make buckets work again? MinetestBot: yrungr: I'll pass that on when wuzzy is around appguru: you are implying they are not working ATM? yrungr: yep. you can't pick up lava with them. yrungr: buckets are basically broken now. yrungr: i've reverted to the commit just before that and the buckets are working ok there. iamweasel: //clearobjects is a part of worldedit, the other one is built-in, i suppose texmex: I get 75 FPS in MT on macOS, but 35 FPS in MT on Windows 10 (Krock's build). Latest Radeon drivers on Windows present. What's going on? oil_boi: On windows 10 the actual FPS is half even though it says the same in the F5 menu oil_boi: It's weird texmex: oil_boi: How do you know? oil_boi: Oh wait nevermind, that was a really old version of the game I'm thinking of texmex: Ah, this is on latest. imi: hi, for some reasong minetest doesn't use the sound output device set in my ubuntu control center, it uses a different one. how can I fix this? sfan5: maybe check the audio mixer if you can change it manually MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Move shared parameters sending to UnitSAO (#9968) 13c1e01bc https://git.io/JfXPX (152020-06-04T17:31:46Z) Seirdy: hey, I have a question about technic. What exactly is the prospector tool used for? Seirdy: I don't see any documentation on it Krock: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/d5df30c3ff5ad0b9486288521abca5b517651936/technic/tools/prospector.lua Krock: looks like a node finder tool Krock: right-click to configure Seirdy: Krock: thanks will try it out MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add buttons to ContentDB in game bar and configure world (#9944) 13850af80 https://git.io/JfXHa (152020-06-04T20:53:26Z) rubenwardy: what's the preferred format for static block object thingies? obj? and any tips on exporting obj files from Blender? rubenwardy: obj is generally preferred, .x and .b3d are also commonly used skyliner_369: The UV maps for the OBJs are obviously exported in obj files but what about material/surface or whatever its called data? So I can assign different textures to different parts of the same obj rubenwardy: I think that's above my level :D skyliner_369: Well I'm creating a mod, and I'm wondering how ill assign textures to specific faces of, say, a basin for example rubenwardy: you usually do that using UV mapping skyliner_369: The uv maps are set. I'm using multiple different png files appguru: You probably shouldn't be using multiple textures to begin with. oil_boi: Wait what iamweasel iamweasel: mt = mistell iamweasel: i'll be doing alot of that leo_rockway: I would like to point out that the topic says that ##minetest-es is the Spanish channel, but there's nobody there. So I'm not sure how useful is to keep that in the topic. oil_boi: Just in case I guess oil_boi: Also there are nice riots happening downtown from what I can hear by the helicopters, police cars, fireworks, then eerie silence. oil_boi: I wonder if anyone has run a memory fragmentation analyzer on MTE yet iamweasel: omg, it is iamweasel: sorry, mt sfan5: 2020-06-03 13:04:38: ACTION[Server]: LuaEntitySAO "mob:pig" at (66,6,-173) (id=39, hp=10) punched LuaEntitySAO "mob:pig" at (66,6,-173) (id=39, hp=10), damage=0 sfan5: oil_boi: ...did the pig punch itself? oil_boi: Yes mobs use that for fall damage sfan5: interesting oil_boi: How's the new more chaotic mob damage and punching system working? sfan5: last time I fought a snowman it worked fine oil_boi: Oh it's updated to have 0.25 seconds between punches now, for players and mobs, do /spawn spider oil_boi: Might want to wear some armor Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: anyone online Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: can someone help me longerstaff13: Miniontoby: what's up? Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: I want an mod Miniontoby: which if you jump you jump high Miniontoby: er Miniontoby: I made a code longerstaff13: doesn't look like there's a mod for that, though there are trampolines that make a player do that when jumped on Miniontoby: but not every time you jump Miniontoby: it works Miniontoby: IK Miniontoby: but it is for the whole world longerstaff13: Miniontoby: so how high do the players jump when this code is set? Miniontoby: you know player:set_overwrite_physics Miniontoby: I do the jump with 1 increasing per jump Miniontoby: everytime they join it sets to 1 Miniontoby: but Miniontoby: it works, but not correct Miniontoby: sometimes the jump works sometimes not Miniontoby: so is there a cmd that let the player jump longerstaff13: not that I know of longerstaff13: idk about anytone else in this channel tho Miniontoby: hmm Miniontoby: I think there is no evivox: How do you install a specific version of Minetest on Ubuntu? iamweasel: what do you mean by "specific version"? lns: Is there a way to force a lower version in Linux server? I have 7 but my son has 5 (on Android) and I want us all to be able to use the same LAN server I set up. I can't find any docs on how to do this, but I tried setting 'mg_name = 5' but the Android client still gives me "Unsupported ItemDefinition" error when connecting. iamweasel: i am not sure what you have at 7, looks like stable minetest is version 5 and dev is 6 sfan5: huh? lns: iamweasel: Oh jeez, sorry, you're right. I'm on 0.4.17.1 iamweasel: but you could definitely just install stable 5.2.0 on your server lns: I'm on Debian 10 iamweasel: is that minetest or minetest_game version? sfan5: you probably have a version from the 5.x series on your phones, so it'd make sense to also install the newest on your server iamweasel: as far as i know, minetest_game on server should not matter sfan5: lns: 5.2.0 is in buster-backports https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=buster-backports&searchon=names&keywords=minetest iamweasel: ^^^ lns: Ok, will try that! Thanks :) lns: I'm actually going to try installing the flatpak, that's 5.2.0 also rschulman: Is there a way in elepower to carry something that charges the drill while you use it? Because otherwise it doesn't last long. lns: Where's minetest.conf default location for flatpak install? Is it in ~/.minetest ? Because it keeps saying it can't load the file when I launch with --config option. sfan5: since flatpak is sandbox that isn't a straightforward question sfan5: sandboxed* sfan5: either way if you search the forum there should be an answer somewhere lns: sfan5: trying, ty :) Just want to grant myself privs iamweasel: rschulman: i do believe a charged battery can do that for a technic drill iamweasel: but i found it's far less annoying to have several drills, so that others are charging while you are working one iamweasel: cuz you basically need to make a battery & a battery box, charge the battery in a battery box, take the battery box & the battery with you, build the box in new place, put the charged battery in it to transfer, and then charge the drill in the box iamweasel: perhaps technic should have like a charged battery box one can pick up iamweasel: that would make things waaaay smoother iamweasel: anyway, i find the balance acceptable, because mining drill mk3 is extremely powerful iamweasel: also, you can probably very easily, without knowing any lua, poke the mod source to decrease drill power consumption or max charge iamweasel: lns: i would imagine a backport would be easier to deal with, but i have zero experience with flatpack.... iamweasel: for my money, making from source on debian is very trouble-free, and it runs in place, you don't even have to install it iamweasel: fast, too iamweasel: after installing the pre-req packages, this is sufficient: iamweasel: git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git iamweasel: cd minetest iamweasel: git checkout 5.2.0 iamweasel: git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git games/minetest_game iamweasel: ( cd games/minetest_game ; git checkout 5.2.0 ) iamweasel: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE -DBUILD_CLIENT=FALSE iamweasel: make -j 1 appguru: Why not get a dev build when you're already at it? iamweasel: i mean, that's even less typing, just skip checkouts, but there ain't nothing wrong with stable.... or is there???? lns: iamweasel: Thank you for the info, I got the flatpack working but honestly I will maybe try the source method later. I don't like the idea of flatpaks..i was going to install it on a VM but I just got lazy :( iamweasel: hey, whatever works, right? imi: hi, in worldedit can I somehow hide that black-transparent checkerboard slection pattern? iamweasel: //unmark imi: iamweasel: thanks imi: what's the difference between /clearobjects and //clearobjects? oil_boi: !tell paramat I will work on making that a setting in minetest.conf MinetestBot: oil_boi: I'll pass that on when paramat is around oil_boi: Oof wrong channel MinetestBot: oil_boi_: May-29 22:40 UTC I just tried those viewbobbing changes you linked ealier and it might be *a bit* too much bobbing oil_boi_: Oh wow that was late DrFrankenstone_: oil_boi: did you develop your own mobs api to allow for the head-looking feature? oil_boi: Yes DrFrankenstone_: cheers. it's quite a important touch - one of many things that made me realise Notch is rather talented. oil_boi: Oh yes, that's why he's a billionaire :D oil_boi: I'm very excited about https://youtu.be/_2waJc_NI7Q oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: Collision Detection Jolt Fix - YouTube oil_boi: Haha, I was a bit too tired making that jolt fix video sfan5 oil_boi: I meant to say *Weeks* "citation need" DrFrankenstone_: that's a different fix to the new_jump change? sfan5: it's different yes DrFrankenstone_: cool MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Use node particles for TNT explosions (#2695) 136e345cf https://git.io/JfiyA (152020-06-02T10:48:56Z) juangh: hi there guys juangh: good time for all of you juangh: i'm looking for a solution to keep monitoring multiple instance of the minetest server (by a few ports) to be monitoring.. juangh: i used nc but it don't return me nothing in the 30K or similars juangh: how can i if in a remote server (mine) is executing an instance of minetest? juangh: how can i know if in a ... sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/protocol.txt#L73 juangh: sfan5, accessing juangh: sfan5, thanks man, good mornig juangh: morning juangh: my keyboard... :| juangh: sfan5, exactly what i was looking for, but, i will make a few modifications. i will integrate with a django project for a dashboard panel administration juangh: but, this is perfect juangh: i have 8 instance executing and maybe soon could be more...i can't be all the time looking if there is any down juangh: thank you! iamweasel: i have geforce gtx 670 & nouveau (blobless) and medium settings, and i get 200+ fps on most maps iamweasel: gah, mt iamweasel: i get like 50 in minetest :D texmex: iamweasel: Welcome to the club! ;) I think I read somewhere that MT is, apart from being unoptimized performance-wise, also very CPU-based. Krock: overclock your CPU Calinou: iamweasel: did you reclock the GPU to run faster than its boot clock? It's not automatic with Nouveau Calinou: but it's feasible on Kepler GPUs sfan5: I thought that wasn't possible because of locked firmware? Calinou: it's possible on Fermi and Kepler GPUs, and I think Maxwell now Calinou: but not Pascal or Turing yet iamweasel: Calinou: how is that done? Calinou: I don't know exactly, you'll have to look it up online Calinou: note that it may be unstable, Nouveau is more prone to regressions compared to AMD drivers Calinou: still, some people have gotten it to work well iamweasel: cool, worth a look if it makes it faster :) iamweasel: that's open source for you iamweasel: mt Verticen: THANK YOU for fixing that jump issue. I did not know that was a bug, but minetest character always felt too floaty or lightweight to me, and I think it was becuase of the jumps! oil_boi: No problem Verticen :D Yes the player feels much better with that tiny fix oil_boi: I have no idea why these gcc checks on GitHub are failing though all I did was change the number and >= to == :L oil_boi: There's another fix I wanted to try, the part where when you're jumping up a node while directly against it while moving forward, your player shoots in the direction you're facing, almost like you're holding interia rubenwardy: oil_boi: exact floating point comparisons are unsafe rubenwardy: it may work as 0 is exactly representable, depends how the speed is calculated oil_boi: rubenwardy, it appears that when it's returned as 0 it's converted into an integer DrFrankenstone: oil_boi: did you develop your own mobs api to allow for the headlook feature? Calinou: those are probably design decisions to make movement feel snappier, not bug Calinou: (about stair climbing and jumping in front of a node) Calinou: it's even an intentional feature in CPMA called "skimming" Calinou: https://youtu.be/htZzbs4BxCs?t=20 Calinou: what happens here was intentionally added to make movement less frustrating Calinou: (this is Quake Live, the feature was backported from CPMA into its "promode") Warr1024: Ooh, nice, snappier movement is something my game could actually use, especially for things like climbing slopes... MinetestBot: 02[git] 04clavinet -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Update Linux instructions in README (#78) 136bb818a https://git.io/Jfivd (152020-06-01T11:35:41Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: imageScaleNNAA: Fix image clipping on rect- instead of image dimensio… 13f849917 https://git.io/JfiTU (152020-06-01T13:22:04Z) oil_boi: sfan5, I will rework this oil_boi: Here is the idea: if oldmovecode then check old jump style oil_boi: If new move code, use better jump style appguru: How do the jump styles differ? oil_boi: appguru, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Yse9Wh6rk appguru: I've had a look sfan5: forcing people who want the old jump to use the entire old move doesn't sound good oil_boi: appguru, it makes jumping less floaty oil_boi: Maybe I should talk about this in -dev appguru: oil_boi: This should be optional & controlled by a setting appguru: A setting probably independent of "oldmovecode" MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentCAO: Update light of all attached entities (#9975) 13a08d18a https://git.io/Jfimx (152020-06-01T17:01:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Lua API: Log incorrect parameter types as error (#9954) 1342a9b45 https://git.io/Jfimj (152020-06-01T17:02:15Z) oil_boi: Oh yes oil_boi: But the first step is: perfect it oil_boi: Then the next step: learn how to make it a setting oil_boi: Then, final step: incorporate it into physics override Miniontoby: ok MinetestBot: Miniontoby: May-31 11:32 UTC "yeah, yeah" and "yes sure, whatever" confirm that it'll be sent Miniontoby: why Krock Miniontoby: why he need to send me a msg Krock: !tell Miniontoby It's MTB's job to send messages? MinetestBot: Krock: I'll pass that on when Miniontoby is around Krock: <3 MinetestBot Krock: :o Krock: no love for me oil_boi: <3 MinetestBot MinetestBot: <3 oil_boi oil_boi: :O :O oil_boi: I think you made the bot mad Krock :L appguru: <3 MinetestBot MinetestBot: <3 appguru MinetestBot: Miniontoby: Jun-01 17:47 UTC It's MTB's job to send messages? Miniontoby: !tell Krock why are you doing some random things MinetestBot: Miniontoby: I'll pass that on when Krock is around oil_boi: Oh it doesn't send the message unless you rejoin sfan5: ..or say something Krock: . MinetestBot: Krock: Jun-01 18:03 UTC why are you doing some random things Krock: thanks MinetestBot oil_boi: Amazing oil_boi: !tell sfan5 hi MinetestBot: oil_boi: I'll pass that on when sfan5 is around oil_boi: Has science gone too far? appguru: lol appguru: MinetestBot is just compensating for the shortcomings of 1970's IRC sfan5: . MinetestBot: sfan5: Jun-01 18:17 UTC hi Krock: oil_boi: modern problems require modern solutions oil_boi: Very nice actually, but what if we do oil_boi: !tell oil_boi oh wow MinetestBot: You can tell that to yourself oil_boi: :O oil_boi: Gott add in "¯\_(ツ)_/¯" MinetestBot: oil_boi: Jun-01 18:20 UTC You can tell that to yourself oil_boi: Did I break it? Krock: No, you're just confused oil_boi: Oh I see oil_boi: I wonder what language this bot is written in Krock: english MinetestBot: Krock: Jun-01 18:27 UTC seecret message oil_boi: Muahahaha Krock: why are you laughing? I'm right Krock: python https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/ oil_boi: Cause of the secret message :< Krock: well done oil_boi: Oh no admicos: rip matrix Krock: F oil_boi: sfan5, do you want to be a collaborator on crafter and crafter client? appguru: "crafter client" ? oil_boi: appguru, https://github.com/oilboi/crafter_client appguru: Rolling your own client is not worth the hassle IMO appguru: Besides, seems it's mostly CSM from what I see? appguru: (+ probably the jump tweak) appguru: owait oil_boi: I was gonna say haha appguru: it's a collection of CSM appguru: you should consider using submodules oil_boi: What and how is a submodule? appguru: it's basically a link to a git repo appguru: so you don't have to do the updating per hand oil_boi: Wouldn't that mean that the user would have to git clone to the minetest directory? sfan5: oil_boi: hm, I probably wouldn't have too much to commit sfan5: so just using PRs for occasional contributions would be fine for me MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix autoscale_mode segfault if tile doesn't have texture 130e698e6 https://git.io/JfiGG (152020-06-01T19:19:35Z) oil_boi: test sfan5: success appguru: ful oiio: hi people oiio: what do you use on server sqlite or leveldb? skyliner_369: Ehtereal adds charcoal and charcoal torches... skyliner_369: How do I add a texture pack to the content browser? skyliner_369: ahh... contentDB. the contentDB was being a dork. oil_boi: Is there a way to access a players moveresult? skyliner_369: How many here, well, play Minecraft? I'm asking because I'm curious what everyone's favorite modpack is. iamweasel: minewhat? skyliner_369: the voxel game owned by microsoft and developed in Java oil_boi: What is java oil_boi: FTB Unleashed iamweasel: j/k lol i heard about minecraft, no personal exp though iamweasel: i think packs like technics + tubes + mesecon + digilines is pretty dope, and i do believe that most of that is minecraft-cloned/inspired? iamweasel: but it's very subjective skyliner_369: I've been thinking of making a nice and cool FTB (inspired/endorsed) modpack/game for Minetest. it'd be really cool to do but I won't do it without at least a blessing from the FTB team and the mod creators. iamweasel: depends on what you like to do. i also really dig caverealms & moretrees Anton93: I need help oil_boi: Hello Anton93 how can we help you? Anton93: How to add admin to minetest server? Anton93: Config not working Anton93: minetest.conf not working please help me DrFrankenstone: Rei's minimap was high up on mods I liked to have installed. Minetest comes with it mostly built in. Maintaing mods on Minecraft is too hard though, I always end up back at vanilla Anton93: How to add admin to minetest server??? Emerald2: Well what did you put in the config? Anton93: Please wait iamweasel: he'll be back... skyliner_369: With Minetest, I believe mod upkeep would be mostly easy, though, I can't know that for sure without, well, making mods. oil_boi: Krock, your colored names mod is very nice oil_boi: Oh the CDB penalization system is gone now? Emerald2: Welp he never came back. Guess he figured it out. Emerald2: It's in minetest.conf.example anyway. MinetestBot: Miniontoby: May-29 14:45 UTC I removed minetest mods from the play store a week ago because it was broken, when I fix it I'll release an update with all the translations Miniontoby: yo Miniontoby: !tell rubenwardy that is ok MinetestBot: Miniontoby: yeah, yeah Miniontoby: !tell rubenwardy that is ok MinetestBot: Miniontoby: I'll pass that on when rubenwardy is around Krock: !tell Miniontoby "yeah, yeah" and "yes sure, whatever" confirm that it'll be sent MinetestBot: Krock: I'll pass that on when Miniontoby is around Krock: <3 MinetestBot MinetestBot: <3 Krock rubenwardy: Weird how it can't see I'm connected MinetestBot: rubenwardy: May-31 11:15 UTC that is ok MinetestBot: rubenwardy: May-31 11:16 UTC that is ok clavi: hey, when did dirt blocks get changed to show less dirt? clavi: I only just noticed now Krock: dirt is full dirt still clavi: no I mean "dirt with x" clavi: like dirt with grass, it used to be 50/50 grass/dirt but now it's more grass clavi: or snow clavi: ah it was https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/d16612c1cb86db48e12c211c27e4b78b920fffcd ANAND: I was wondering the same ANAND: IMO, dirt_with_grass looks much better now unaimillan: Hi Krock: hi unaimillan: Is there any guide How to setup my IDE for MT mod development? Krock: unaimillan: add lua_api.txt to your bookmarks Krock: check whether you can generate some autocomplete dictionary from it (that's what I did in cudatext) Krock: but else I'm not aware of any maintained plugins or so ANAND: GreenDimond has created a very handy VSCode extension: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24043&p=365590 unaimillan: navigating through the plain .txt does not seem very convenient unaimillan: anand: yep, I'm using it) Is there a way to automate plugin reloading on server? ANAND: Mods can't yet be reloaded at runtime. The server needs to be restarted for changes to take effect. Scarecrow: Automate plugin reloading? Easy: Have it managed by your choice of init system to auto-restart it, and killall minetest-server Scarecrow: :D Scarecrow: (Don't do that.) Krock: kill -9 unaimillan: 🤔 iamweasel: unaimillan: i use emacs with lua mode, but any powerful text editor with correct syntax hilite would be pretty sufficient, imho unaimillan: iamweasel: do you use lua_api.txt? Krock: everybody uses lua_api.txt because you cannot integrate everything properly into an IDE Krock: take formspecs as an example unaimillan: I mean, can lua-mode parse '.txt' to provide docs and code completion? iamweasel: mmmm i make do without completion iamweasel: emacs offers a very light ide-ness Krock: else write a script that polishes it for you iamweasel: not quite sure what you mean by documentation.... .MD file for git host? iamweasel: oh unaimillan i never even knew that file existed :) that's actually very helpful. i mostly just copy-pasta out of built-in & flagship mods, looking up lua reference as needed unaimillan: jetbrains-like "Quick documentation lookup" - pop up with docs (at least type signature) for function under cursor iamweasel: and there's a super-helpful api wiki somewhere iamweasel: mmm yeah i am not sure if something like that exists in full form iamweasel: i think it's actually rubenwardy's site? iamweasel: yeah minetest modding book by rubenwardy, pure gold rubenwardy: !book MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Minetest Modding Book - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/ rubenwardy: there's also https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ unaimillan: 👀 Warr1024: Trying to browse through lua_api.txt is pretty bad, but searching it for keywords actually usually works pretty well. It's actually (semi-)markdown, so you can use more specific searches, and/or case-sensitivity, to find specific sections and not just mentions. Warr1024: For any shortcomings in usability it may have, lua_api.txt has the one advantage of being the single most likely form of documentation (other than RTFSing itself) to accurately reflect the actual state of the code. Pretty much everything else out there is either outdated, or relies on someone running some update script somewhere that you probably Warr1024: won't know if it breaks... Calinou: anyone know why https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/issues/155 happens? Krock: recusrive dependencies Krock: or rather.. an attachment chain Krock: which happens to have a loop Krock: question is, what's the full log? skyliner_369: What level is diamond found at? In, I believe, 07 mapgen Krock: you probably didn't see the code reference links I sent you earlier freelikegnu: it takes me about 10-15 browsers tabs of minetest lua documentation and examples from forums to make a small mod... freelikegnu: thats in addition to text editor tabs of other mods oil_boi: Ohhh, the jumping in the client doesn't check if the player's velocity is 0 when they're standing on something therefore allowing them to glide up a "staircase" of nodes oil_boi: Does anyone have an example of how to print a variable c++ side? I'm very bad at c++ :L oil_boi: Oh wait I did it, oh my god I actually did something to the engine it's a miracle oil_boi: :O I fixed a bug iamweasel: hi Calinou, hi ShadowNinja :D wow what a great channel, and it was here all along....... leo_rockway: oil_boi: hey, I'm on latest dev. I saw somebody posted in the forum about their skin. Sprinting didn't work either last night. I haven't checked today with latest everything. oil_boi: That's because I updated the clientmod and servermod to use a different modchannel oil_boi: I have no idea where the skins post is oil_boi: Yeah when you update the crafter game I'd recommend updating the client mod too since I can't ship them as one unit leo_rockway: oil_boi: oh, I completely forgot about the client mod. I'll pull that now. oil_boi: Yeah man it's a pain in the butt oil_boi: Oooooo oil_boi: That's an idea actually oil_boi: Wait don't update it leo_rockway: oil_boi: crap, I switched tabs in my terminal and I missed your message. I already updated it. leo_rockway: I could roll back... oil_boi: Oof oof oof, No no, I'll try something :D leo_rockway: sprinting works with the updated client mod. Skin still looks crazy. leo_rockway: I don't know if the client mod does anything skin related. oil_boi: Nope! Do you have a link to your skin? oil_boi: Oh Verticen I actually do have something that I need done, is there any way you can take the character's "armor" vertices of their mesh and move them slightly outwards as to float like the helmet part of the mesh? leo_rockway: oil_boi: I'm not using one, actually. I just had Sam / Steve default. oil_boi: Here is a link to the model area https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/tree/master/mods/player_api/models oil_boi: Hmm leo_rockway could you post a picture of how it looks? leo_rockway: yes, one second. Verticen: take the characters armor verts and move them slightly outward in minetest engine or blender? Verticen: Hold up, let me look at that link... leo_rockway: oil_boi: it looks different depending on the camera angle. I'll take a few screenshots. leo_rockway: https://i.imgur.com/fpX4K1k.png oil_boi: blender, and then export them into the character.b3d so when a player puts on armor it's like they're actually wearing clothes :D leo_rockway: https://i.imgur.com/yucPHRf.png leo_rockway: https://i.imgur.com/9Z1QTRp.png oil_boi: Dude that's text, holy crap, there's literally a bounty out for rendering text as a texture hahaha leo_rockway: oil_boi: same thing with the front. leo_rockway: oil_boi: well, you did it ;-) leo_rockway: oil_boi: the armor renders well on top of it, though. https://i.imgur.com/ZMmlXBA.png leo_rockway: I'm like a smurf in that one :D Verticen: oil_boi. I see, so you want a 'copy' of the character geometry of the character that is slightly larger than the character's skin for armor, kind of like what is already there for the 'hair' geometry on the head. Sure, I can do that easy. Do you want me to keep the UV map the same? (I would imagine so, you would just use a different 'player skin' for the armor texture?) oil_boi: Yes the uv map should be the same, because what happens is I do "player_skin.png^helmet.png^leggings.png" and the armor textures are based on the original uv map of the player skin :D Verticen: So on oil's blender model all of the geometry faces are split at the edges - the object is solid but the faces are 'loose'. Is this a requirement for the models in the minetest game engine? oil_boi: Oof, I have no idea, let me ask in the dc oil_boi: leo_rockway, I am thoroughly confused hmm hmm Verticen: oil_boi wait, did you mean for the mesh to have separated faces? if you didn't mean to, then it is probably okay for me to merge them. If they do need to be separated faces, that isn't a big deal Verticen: either way is fine, I'm just curious - I know next to nothing about minetest engine. oil_boi: Oh yeah, no they don't need to be seperate faces, I join all the mobs vertices with CTRL j, I think that's the same leo_rockway: Verticen: I haven't touched Blender in forever, but it does sound like a weird requirement, if it is a requirement. Verticen: did you make this character model? or is it from someone else in the MT community? oil_boi: It's the default character model from MTG oil_boi: Oh "minetestvideos says: You shouldn't need faces to be split. I've never done that on any of my models and they all work fine. oil_boi: " oil_boi: leo_rockway, thinking of what is wrong with the skin oil_boi: It doesn't throw any errors? Verticen: okay, cool. I just found it weird that they were separate. leo_rockway: oil_boi: oh, I'm an idiot. I forgot I had modified my minetest.conf and I didn't have secure.http_mods = skins leo_rockway: but, hey, now you can render text! oil_boi: Wait you're right, that took the raw data of the webpage and converted it into a texture leo_rockway: unfortunately it wasn't consistenly rendering text. That depended on the camera angle. Verticen: Alright, I've got the geometry done, and the b3d exported looks fine. Should I put this on github somewhere? oil_boi: Sure, I'll put the attributes in the standard attributes.txt file in the models folder oil_boi: I really gotta create an attributes menu browser somehow Verticen: so, uh, I haven't used github much. What do I need to do to put the models in the /mods/player_api/models/ folder? leo_rockway: if it's a new file, it would be git add file leo_rockway: then commit leo_rockway: I'm not a git expert, though. Verticen: kk leo_rockway: I'm typically on the other side of the equation, making sure that the git server is up and running :D leo_rockway: we do infrastructure as code, but I don't live in git like devs do. oil_boi: Oh I'm sorry, I got distracted by version checking, you can just create a new repo and I'll download it off the site, or you can do a merge request skyliner_369: so I've been putting a chunk of mods together in minetest... one of the mods (I don't know which) made torches hurt if you touch them. does Ethereal make torches painful? or is that another mod? oil_boi: skyliner_369, it's another mod oil_boi: What mods did you download exactly? oil_boi: Ok leo_rockway, now try this: update your game only and not the clientmod then start the game oil_boi: The game should take it from there Verticen: https://github.com/Verticen/Minetest-Character-with-Armor skyliner_369: thanks. All of the mods looked good... I don't know which mod was asinine enough to make torches burn you. at least the mod didn't set you on fire. oil_boi: Verticen, thank you, it appears that the vertices for the armor are grouped in with the base player model https://i.imgur.com/zBYIimY.png Basically, the base mesh of the player has to be an object joined, and then the armor vertices need to be a separate object joined if that makes sense skyliner_369: https://pasteboard.co/JaIedM4.png here's a screenshot of the mods folder contents oil_boi: This is used so that when you define an entity texture you can do {"texture1.png","texture2.png"} and you can remove aspects of the entities mesh :) skyliner_369: I'd actually start reading conf files carefully but, well, I'm currently upgrading my Ubuntu from 18 to 20 oil_boi: skyliner_369, which version of ethereal are you using? I just noticed there's 3-4 versions of it :O skyliner_369: the version in the 5.2.0 (windows) ingame content browser Verticen: Okay, that's (should be) a quick fix I can do. oil_boi: Verticen, if you use discord https://discord.gg/MdnuXM oil_boi: Very noice leo_rockway: oil_boi: how do I know if it worked? leo_rockway: I don't see anything in the logs. oil_boi: It should say something in yellow leo_rockway: oh, I was looking at the terminal... skyliner_369: I'd open, well, any of the files, but, if it isn't already in memory, Ubuntu can't run, well, any software... too busy doing full-on upgrades leo_rockway: it does show up in the actual game window :) leo_rockway: oil_boi: it does say "current version 0." though. oil_boi: Perfect! The game also instantly asserts an error if you try to use anything but 5.3.0-dev now and tells you that leo_rockway: it's missing something there, I don't think I have version 0. oil_boi: Oh yes, I did that on purpose, I will count any version before error checking as version 0 because it's pre version checking oil_boi: It's only if the client is so old it doesn't contain version sending code, any other upgrades will tell you your actual version leo_rockway: oh, gotcha. Thanks! oil_boi: Now unfortunately any servers with clientmods disabled will always yield this error but I dunno what to do with that one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Verticen: https://github.com/Verticen/Minetest-Character-with-Armor okay, this should be correct. The b3d file has two separate objects now; player and player_armor. oil_boi: :D https://i.imgur.com/7R2q1Fh.png skyliner_369: turning Minetest into a full-on minecraft clone? oil_boi: Kind of, It's how I remember MC Beta and then some :) skyliner_369 skyliner_369: ahhh oil_boi: I used to play beta with 200-230 mods iamweasel: hi calcul0n :D calcul0n: hello Verticen: His github suggests that it's going to be kind of like MC beta, but also with things like jetpacks and ghosts. https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter iamweasel: i met you before as lux & mimi :D leo_rockway: oil_boi: fyi, I got this warning: WARNING[Server]: Undeclared global variable "number" accessed at /home/leo/.minetest/games/Crafter/mods/experience/init.lua:176 oil_boi: Oh don't worry I'm fixing it all right now, debug hour leo_rockway: alright :) hoodedice: sfan5 is there any resource on what direction minetest_game is supposed to be heading in? Krock: hoodedice: game#515 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 -- [Discussion] Development direction hoodedice: thank you, reading it now Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! hoodedice: :) sfan5: development is very slow so don't get too hopeful about any of those goals hoodedice: oh boy what is this hoodedice: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19597 rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Minecore: An Engine - Minetest Forums hoodedice: did someone pull another Kenny? rubenwardy: You could help contribute those goals rubenwardy: Or fork MTG, work on it, and get a merge back hoodedice: busy with my own (sub)game to bother too much about mtg but I wanted to see if there was a direction established at all yet hoodedice: brb, gnome is slowing down my laptop Krock: hoodedice: join the xfce masterrace hoodedice: I used to be on xfce but gnome is too comfortable now Krock: except that it slows down your laptop hoodedice: *laughs in i7-6820HQ* markus56: Hello, I am trying to migrate old worlds to SQLite3 markus56: minetest --server --migrate SQLite3 --world Fraktalwelt 2020-05-30 14:57:35: WARNING[Main]: system-wide share not found at "/share/minetest"2020-05-30 14:57:35: WARNING[Main]: system-wide share found at "/snap/minetest/1521/bin/../share/minetest"2020-05-30 14:57:35: ERROR[Main]: Cannot read world.mt! markus56: any idea how to fix this error? Ubuntu 20.10 system. Thanks SwissalpS: do client-side texture-packs reduce load for server? rubenwardy: yes, but only if remote media isn't yet rubenwardy: *used SwissalpS: are you saying client needs to be restarted to clear cache? SwissalpS: or that pack needs to be complete? rubenwardy: no rubenwardy: remote media is when media is loaded externally to the server rubenwardy: which means the server doesn't need to send media rubenwardy: if the server doesn't need to send media, then the texture packs not needing to receive media doesn't make a difference rubenwardy: as none is sent by the Minetest server anyway SwissalpS: oh, gotcha. yes in that case it won't matter. Thank you :) SwissalpS: I was thinking if server uses http for media, client can decide if wants to request or not. rubenwardy: remote media is HTTP-based skyliner_369: gegl skyliner_369: what core minetest game mod adds charcoal? skyliner_369: oh ethereal... whoops lol SwissalpS: there is also https://github.com/pandorabox-io/charcoal if you don't want the rest of ethereal SwissalpS: it adds torches made with charcoal oil_boi: I like option 3 :D oil_boi: Though if we had a way to essentially create a new texture with the data from the combined images stored in memory as a single file instead of a giant string it would be pretty much the perfect temp solution oil_boi: I can't find a feature request for it, so I guess I will create oen oil_boi: one** Bloom: MinetestBot seen longerstaff13 Bloom: MinetestBot, seen longerstaff13 Bloom: Hm guess not an cmd leo_rockway: oil_boi: I'm watching the armor video. I'm pretty sure if you dig the block where an enemy arrow impacted it still hits you if you stand in front of it. oil_boi: Oh it hits you even if you walk into it when it's stuck, I need to modify it to only do it when moving leo_rockway: oh, gotcha leo_rockway: oh, yeah, I see that in the video. oil_boi: I will certainly fix it tomorrow, but for now, I must sleep, see ya! Warr1024: oil_boi: probably the easiest and best overall process would be to open a PR to add a [png: texture mod. PNG has very good compression for this kind of data, and base64 should be a minimal expansion that would still keep the value "stringy" rather than "binary"...ey Verticen: !tell oil_boi Alpha 0.05 looks great! You're making incredible progress. I know that you've got 22i for models, but if you need another source of models let me know. I don't know balls about programming for Minetest, but I'm pretty much a master of blender. Anyway, keep up the good work MinetestBot: Verticen: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: anyone online??? Miniontoby: I want to talk Miniontoby: I am a webdev and I need an new idea and it can be something for minetest Miniontoby: rubenwardy: did you add the translating to the app??? imi: hi imi: or should I say Miniontoby: hey imi: Thi Miniontoby: I am a webdev and I need an new idea and it can be something for minetest Miniontoby: I see it is added Miniontoby: thnx rubenwardy Miniontoby: How to use an translating in minetestmods4android app from rubenwardy Miniontoby: does anyone knows? Miniontoby: How to use an translating in minetestmods4android app from rubenwardy? hoodedice: sfan5! hoodedice: MinetestBot! MinetestBot: hoodedice! hoodedice: sfan5 need help with worldedit pls hoodedice: what would be a good way to copy paste a particular section of a building in a flipped patter hoodedice: pattern hoodedice: suppose I have [ as my saved worldedit schematic hoodedice: I want a pattern like [ ] [ ] [ ] hoodedice: I'm an idiot, if I save the schematic as [ ] that will make my life easier :facepalm: Miniontoby: How to use an translating in minetestmods4android app from rubenwardy? imi: how do I enable client side commands (the "." key)? lmat: texmex: I created two beacons one block space between them. lmat: texmex: I got a mese crystal and right-clicked one, then with the resulting key, right clicked the other. lmat: Now, how do I use it? sfan5: imi: you need enable_client_modding = true in your settings and also need to enable the particular client mod texmex: lmat: just stand on it for a few seconds. Again, note that the connections doesn’t become symmetrical automatically. Only if it’s lit up it’s activatwd. lmat: Sorry, had a problem with my IRC client and had to exit. lmat: texmex: One is red one is blue. lmat: I teleported from the blue to the red. lmat: it's cool. texmex: Everything is in the docs iirc. Red means that there is a connection but the power is insufficient. lmat: texmex: Oh, it requires power even if they're connected via mese crystal? lmat: drat lmat: I moved one of them. They're both still blue on top, but they don't work anymore. lmat: I'm wanting a teleporter mod just like this, except that the teleporters only work in pairs and doesn't require power to use ^_^ Know of anything? texmex: Then telemosaic is not for you. Check Content DB lmat: texmex: okay, thanks. Telemosiac looks very cool for online server play! texmex: lmat: Yeah. I suppose telemosaic can be extended to support this type of behavior but I haven’t got the time. lmat: https://github.com/entuland/tpad seems reasonable lmat: texmex: Understandable! lmat: Oh yeah, this is perfect. imi: sfan5: you are one of the core developers, aren't you? sfan5: yes imi: sfan5: ok, then check this, I have reached this point: https://pastebin.com/e2m1Jv2R -- core.settings is nil here. do you have any idea how do I fix this? sfan5: I believe CSM doesn't have access to settings imi: ok then I'm going to come up with a was to grant that access imi: *way sfan5: would be easier to write a method that just returns this particular setting imi: ok imi: sfan5: is there any minetest coding standard I can adhere to? sfan5: https://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines Out`Of`Control: hi Out`Of`Control: how delete user from new auth system? hoodedice: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715898899625279578/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-06-23.png hoodedice: while this is "correct" the shadow on the ground looks awful hoodedice: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715898634864164864/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-05-04.png NetherEran: crafting eg_health_hunger eg_prospector inventory_populator NetherEran: eg_airplanes eg_inventory eg_slabs light sfan5: what kind of huge thing are you building hoodedice: issa bridge hoodedice: sfan5 have a solution for the lighting? hoodedice: if no solution I think I'll make a dirt_with_grass that always has a specific light value (if the api supports it) sfan5: or maybe make the cobblestone let through sunlight? hoodedice: hrm, no, because there's going to be more structures on the cobble bridge (and cobble is just being used to "block out" the concept I'm going for) sfan5: another option is to light up the area by editing the map data (worldedit could even do that if it had a command) sfan5: if you place glowing nodes there the artifical light will be warmer than sunlight or something like that hoodedice: I see Out`Of`Control: i use sqlite3 authentication backend. sfan5: Out`Of`Control: write a mod to call this function https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5199 rubenwardy: !tell Miniomtoby I removed minetest mods from the play store a week ago because it was broken, when I fix it I'll release an update with all the translations MinetestBot: rubenwardy: yeah, yeah sfan5: rubenwardy: you typo'ed the nick Out`Of`Control: sfan5: thanks. I can't exicute it without writing a mod? sfan5: unless you happen to have worledit or another mod that allows you to run Lua code at hand, no Out`Of`Control: yes i have worldedit! rubenwardy: Argh, mobile Out`Of`Control: no tab! imi: sfan5: ok, how do I send my code to you for review, etc? I've just tried to git push a new branch and it failed imi: I don't have any experience with pull requests and github sfan5: you can fork the minetest/minetest repo on github and then push the changes to yourname/minetest Emerald2: Recommend this forum thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14262 sfan5: hoodedice: here's a mod that does the light thing with worldedit https://0x0.st/ifuf.zip sfan5: you'd use //setlight 0 15 to get an area that has no shadow hoodedice: thanks m8 hoodedice: also another bug hoodedice: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715512072733196308/Screenshot_from_2020-05-28_14-29-15.png hoodedice: sometimes I get inside this fog like thing hoodedice: I can't see it when outside of it, and it is not a cloud sfan5: only clouds do that hoodedice: but see hoodedice: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715908019493404673/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-42-29.png hoodedice: no cloud ^ hoodedice: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715908031187124228/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_16-42-34.png hoodedice: how cloud??? ^ sfan5: might be a bug with offset calculation idk sfan5: 300 is pretty close(?) to the default cloud height hoodedice: I believe it was 125 actually hoodedice: lemme check hoodedice: either way, the way I set new clouds height is by adding `height = 700` to set_clouds in weather/init.lua hoodedice: brb imi: ok I think my pull request is ready: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9959 imi: I'll be AFK for the next ~60 minutes MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-29 06:42 UTC Alpha 0.05 looks great! You're making incredible progress. I know that you've got 22i for models, but if you need another source of models let me know. I don't know balls about programming for Minetest, but I'm pretty much a master of blender. Anyway, keep up the good work oil_boi: !minetestbot oil_boi: !tell Verticen :D MinetestBot: oil_boi: I'll pass that on when Verticen is around oil_boi: !tell Verticen Thanks man! I'll keep that in Mind :) Also I will! MinetestBot: oil_boi: I'll pass that on when Verticen is around oil_boi: sfan5, oh so using that texture modifier hack I'm doing is as light as the original texture, it's just the initial calculation which is cpu bound? oil_boi: The skins thing sfan5: using combine with individual pixels will be quite inefficient sfan5: but once the texture is "built" once it stays yes Warr1024: it's also rather limited in that texture names can only be a certain length Warr1024: and if you're in the habit of updating them, they'll need to be recalculated, and the texture names themselves involve some rather large packets sent from the server to clients. Warr1024: All in all if we could just get the string length down better, e.g. using a [png: modifier, then it'd save work on the network, on the client, and it'd allow for larger, more complex things to be used in the given space. Warr1024: I guess I'll file that issue and see where it goes from there... sfan5: we already have an issue for that sfan5: the issue with png is that the server has no png library or any code to do texture building because it's ... a server Warr1024: ...and I found the PR for it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9767#issuecomment-620138272 Warr1024: I don't think we should have to care about the fact that the server doesn't provide PNG tools, though, since mods have options to sort this out themselves. For example, in oil_boi's case in the Crafter skins mod, these PNG files are being pulled from HTTP anyway. It's also possible to farm out to external commands, which also has advantages in Warr1024: being able to run optimization tools. Warr1024: It's already probably a bad idea to be sending these things really frequently, so taking the time to make a decently optimized image shouldn't break anything that wasn't already broken by the fact that the client will only ever be able to load so many of these into memory... sfan5: is the main usecase here building dynamic textures at runtime or pushing new PNG files you already have at runtime? Warr1024: In both oil_boi's and my case, it's player skins which we get as already-made PNG files, but not until runtime. Warr1024: What I want is for players to be able to issue a command or something, or a background polling process runs, detects and downloads a new skin, and then updates the skin for the player in-game without having to restart the whole server. Warr1024: I've been doing periodic server restarts for skins and telling players basically "skin changes take up to 24 hours, deal with it" but that doesn't necessarily scale well for servers with more going on, and it's not really possible to do a "nightly" restart when your player community is spread across the globe and there's no agreed-upon time when Warr1024: it's "night". sfan5: a creative workaround would be to use the [combine stuff to until you get to restart the server to have the texture properly available Warr1024: I could see this feature being useful for a lot of different kinds of things, though. For example, fully customizable signs. sfan5: the proper solution here is to allow the server to push media files at runtime just like it happens at startup Warr1024: Yeah, but that's been in the backlog how many years now? We probably just need to be realistic and shoot for something achievable if we want to get traction. Reworking the media transfer thing is pretty ambitious. Maybe we'll get there someday, but then, maybe having the stopgap will help provide the motivation... oil_boi: Hmm? My version doesn't only load at runtime haha. If you want to change your skin then you simply git push and then log back into the server and it automatically downloads your new skin Warr1024: For example, the [png: thing is something that I could PR for, and probably a number of other contributors could do. Reworking the media transfer would require not just significant expertise, but it'd be a much larger, much harder to review PR, and require a lot more discussion. Even if I knew how to do a PR like that, I'd probably avoid wasting Warr1024: my time because I'd expect it to get shot down inevitably. sfan5: you don't really need to rework media transfer for it... oil_boi: No need for server restart Warr1024: oil_boi: we know what your mod is doing. What I'm talking about is about all the hoops you're jumping through to do it. Warr1024: For one thing, since the server doesn't have PNG generation, I suppose that means it probably also doesn't have PNG decode, so if I have to read in a PNG file and convert it to [combine: that's quite a lot of extra dependencies I have to pull in. sfan5: Warr1024: unrelated but have you been able to confirm that upright_sprite no longer crashes? Warr1024: I haven't been able to confirm yet. Since most of my players are on 5.2-, I had to change the mod code to simply never use upright_sprite to keep them from crashing out. That would make it hard to test a heisenbug like that at scale... sfan5: I see Warr1024: Mods can read/write files inside the worldpath, right? Does that include worldmods, i.e. can I write a mod that can examine files inside worldmods to see if a given file is present? Warr1024: (and if I AM able to do that, would I expect that to be considered a "bug" eventually and removed later?) sfan5: read sure sfan5: writing within the world folder is allowed but shouldn't be inside worldmods Warr1024: okay, that's fine. Being able to write/append (i.e. to create a stub worldmod if one doesn't exist) would be ideal, but that's really minor. oil_boi: I'm pretty sure to include dynamic media like I'm hacking in we'd have to change like 3000 lines of code at least Warr1024: Yeah, from what I understand, the client can't accept media after it's initialized, and there is probably a reason for that beyond just being lazy. Multiple layers would have to be notified of the new media, and the client would need to ensure it's reliably received the media before it can actually load and use it. Warr1024: [png: would be a little shitty, but it'd require only a new texture mod with a small block of code (the worst aspect of it being the decode and hook into the PNG lib), and wouldn't really change the protocol or anything much. It wouldn't be an ideal "solution" but it'd be a lot cleaner than the [combine workaround, which must expand a PNG image to Warr1024: like 50x its original size. sfan5: an initial implementation could push the media to the client without regard for caching or letting the client figure out where to get it sfan5: regarding synchronization my idea is to let the modder specify a fallback texture that is rendered until the actual texture is loaded sfan5: (though that wouldn't be necessary if the server just pushed the texture) Warr1024: Has anyone started messing around with the media transfer idea? I've seen on and off discussion, but I wonder if there's any code out there already... sfan5: not that I know of Warr1024: right now, how does media transfer work? Server alerts client of existence of media, then client has to pull it? Warr1024: If it involves a new packet type of server media push then it might work alright. If we need to involve the client's pull process then that would be more complex... Warr1024: though obviously if we do active server push then curl media just isn't an option for these (which I'm guessing isn't a deal-breaker, hopefully) sfan5: the server tells the client the filenames and hashes, the client decides which ones it needs to pull and requests them directly from the server OR downloads them on its on from remote_media oil_boi: Completely random: But if you could make the client download server steps like the media then people wouldn't need to port forward their routers bwomp bwomp oil_boi: Oh wait no, my brain hdd hasn't warmed up yet Warr1024: you should switch to brain ssd ... but I guess brains are mostly liquid, so maybe that wouldn't work so well. nephele: ssds fail too quickly :D oil_boi: If only I understood networking, you can communicate with server without ports open, but you can't communicate server to client without them open Warr1024: Eh, if I were to make a [png: modifier and submit it as a PR, could it get merged? It looks like the only reason #9767 didn't get merged yet was because of the format... ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9767 -- Compact image-generation texture modifier by appgurueu Warr1024: hmm... sfan5: my issue with such a modifier is that you cannot ever remove the terrible hack it is again sfan5: I'm sure that concern can be addressed somehow sfan5: ..because it's not like I don't see the need for it nephele: passing around modified texture names to create new textures seems really wierd nephele: would be nice to create them in advance instead and get a ressource handle or something, would allow for much better caching too maybe :3 oil_boi: Steps: Dynamic loading textures, caching them. Server and client can create and understand new items and nodes while server loop is running....Profit oil_boi: Dynamic loading media* oil_boi: Or if you want to get really crazy, dynamic loading mods oil_boi: I can see that getting to the point where someone can literally create a mod which opens a chrome or firefox page on the server computer and can render it into the game using screenshots hahaha nephele: not that far fetched, there exist "terminal browsers" that basically open firefox offscreen nephele: oil_boi, for that stuff though, i would rather have explicit video and audio streams to use than just downloading textures to display ;) nephele: could certainly implement voice chat too over such a side channel texmex: oil_boi: I think sorcerykid experimented with dynamically loaded mods iirc… texmex: Yes, audio streams would be great. I want a SSM that sends music scores to a (SS)CSM that plays it. MIDI or other. Since the introduction of sound pitching I suppose a Lua-based sample based tracker player can be implemented… oil_boi: Hmm, interesting rubenwardy: !tell Miniontoby I removed minetest mods from the play store a week ago because it was broken, when I fix it I'll release an update with all the translations MinetestBot: rubenwardy: I'll pass that on when Miniontoby is around MinetestBot: Verticen: May-29 13:08 UTC :D MinetestBot: Verticen: May-29 13:11 UTC Thanks man! I'll keep that in Mind :) Also I will! sfan5: Warr1024: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9961 oil_boi: sfan5, testing Warr1024: Nice. That seems like it might take some tricky testing, but it looks a lot smoother than I had expected it to. I assume that I only ever need to load the media once, and since it's added to the list, any future clients will receive the media on login? Warr1024: I wonder whether media already existing in the cache warrants even a warning, since I'd expect mods to want to just naively notify the server of media, and shouldn't have to keep track of what's already been loaded on their end (adding complexity to the mod when the check already exists in the engine) Warr1024: I tend to take warnings and log noise from the engine pretty seriously. If I let those get out of hand then they'll end up biting me. oil_boi: On Windows 10: The assertion fails, but if I remove the assertion I get runtimeAddMedia(): illegal filename fasf/skin_oilboi.png oil_boi: fasf being the worldname Warr1024: sfan5: I think we'll need a way to detect whether the client can support this feature or not, though, or else I won't be able to use it in production until EOS for versions that DON'T support it... Warr1024: A protocol version bump, or some kind of protocol feature flag, or whatever... sfan5: backwards compatibility is hard in this case oil_boi: But Warr1024 we already have that in 5.2, if you look through the server list there are a bunch of servers greyed out sfan5: because you can't set object properties that only apply for one client sfan5: but there might be some workarounds possible here Warr1024: ah, right, I see what you mean sfan5: oil_boi: if the assertion fails then something went wrong with the world path Warr1024: heh, I'd love to use a trick like "fallback.png^dynamic.png" but if dynamic doesn't load we get a random-color opaque texture instead of all-transparent... oil_boi: Hm, not sure how to work around that actually Warr1024: I guess to keep the experience the same, I'd have to just use [combine hacks again, so maybe this feature will just have to get some testing via early-adopting mods that require the newest version, and mods with long backwards-compat like mine will just have to wait a bit longer ... but if we don't get it in now, it'll be a LOT longer... :-) sfan5: oil_boi: try local temppath = minetest.get_worldpath() .. DIR_DELIM .. "skin_"..name..".png" sfan5: Warr1024: with enough messing around I'm sure there's some way to get old clients to ignore extra modifiers Warr1024: yeah, but it may be simpler for me to just hold out until I can sunset those versions anyway. Warr1024: MT has been making point-releases with at least some regularity. oil_boi: IT WORKS sfan5: the compatibility for this should really be on the mods though (if the engine can't provide it) sfan5: you'll simply have to say if you want to use nodecore x.y.z with player skins ALL your players need at least 5.3.0 rubenwardy: DIR_DELIM is needed, you can use `/` on all platforms rubenwardy: *isn't oil_boi: Oh really? Let me try that Warr1024: that's more-or-less what I'm planning on doing, only it'll be easiest to do that when I'm already requiring all players on 5.3.0. Warr1024: I may or may not be able to technologically enforce minimum client versions, but I'll certainly have warnings where appropriate about required versions. sfan5: rubenwardy: in this case it is because fs::GetFilenameFromPath on windows only deals with \ and on linux only with / sfan5: could be considered a bug rubenwardy: that's a bug rubenwardy: yeah Warr1024: It'd be really nice if I could just straightforward get client version on the server-side, even in cases when there wasn't a proto version bump... rubenwardy: Lua intentionally isolates these things from the lua - notice how all lua stdlib stuff works with / or \ oil_boi: Yeah it's a bug, only works with DIR_DELIM on win hoodedice: minetest is still alpha :^) hoodedice: so technically everyone should switch as soon as a new release is out oil_boi: But, it works :D oil_boi: "so technically everyone should switch as soon as a new release is out" *Fires up 0.3.1 oil_boi: Man why can't I join any servers?? rubenwardy: minetest is not still alpha, hoodedice: let me go 0.4.3 for the nostalgia sfan5: Warr1024: you can always introduce a captcha that relies on dynamic media being pushed ;-) rubenwardy: this is not documented anywhere hoodedice: `ah yes, texture atlas warnings` rubenwardy: texture atlas hasn't existed for years rubenwardy: oh right oil_boi: This is so cool, I'll have to add special capes for core devs when this is done :D Warr1024: My compat policy is "1 version older than latest release" but it's also "oldest version across each platform," with Android holding me back to 5.0 right now. There IS one existing cosmetic bug in 5.0 with entity attachments, but I'm just sort of sweeping it under the rug for now. I have to figure out exactly what that'll mean when android support Warr1024: shows up again in 5.3... oil_boi: It am beautiful https://i.imgur.com/jv2kmAV.png rubenwardy: that red shouty text is red and shouty rubenwardy: also spelt wrong rubenwardy: (it's privilege) hoodedice: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/18f1ede64f1f155fcdb7b8d0a016b8dbe9cd7522#diff-04c6e90faac2675aa89e2176d2eec7d8 oil_boi: I cannot speel only toip Warr1024: Why the hell have we been arguing about this feature for years now when it took sfan5 like an hour to just DO it? hoodedice: I see how it goes hoodedice: Warr1024, wait till the comments come in the PR..... sfan5: that's a good question Warr1024: We only need 2 core dev approvals to merge, right? And sfan5 is already 1, and ruben doesn't sound opposed... rubenwardy: it's only part of the feature, generally updating media was the request oil_boi: Then label it "part 1 of dynamic media loading" rubenwardy: yeah, this is solid as a feature Warr1024: It doesn't necessarily have to close the entire request. You can still merge this as a useful feature, and then sweep up issues and find out whose it resolves. My [png: request, for example, was a suggestion, but this could easily be used to accomplish what I really wanted, so I'd close that one as "resolved enough" Warr1024: I get the feeling you should be able to find like 3 to 5 issues that you could close with "not exactly what I asked for, but I can make this work just fine" conclusions with this. rubenwardy: yeah hoodedice: the brake rail texture is bad in minetest_game hoodedice: how about using red highlights instead of black? sfan5: psst, open an issue hoodedice: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715962373554307145/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_20-18-27.png hoodedice: _guess which of these is the brake rail!!_ sfan5: mipmapping also works especially bad on rails hoodedice: issues are for babies, I'll just make a PR later tonight hoodedice: after I'm done procrastinating by building a small cart track around my bridge pillar ig Warr1024: I would approve of the idea of doing this for all media, including models and sounds, but it sounds like that could be added later without much hassle, and just doing images is already enough that I wouldn't want to risk letting this slip... sfan5: sounds is potentially a problem because they only get loaded once(?) sfan5: ...maybe I should comment this in the PR instead Warr1024: yeah, any sort of "why wasn't X done too" considerations are worth having a prominent record of. Warr1024: sounds are borderline for me, while models require enough of an investment of time to make that I'm okay with them not being dynamic :-D Warr1024: The way it works with texture packs seems good to me. If a TP artist can predict what a texture will be named then they should be able to texture it, and clients should honor that if possible. If mod authors want to ensure that textures sent are exactly as original and not overridden, then they should be able to do that via the filename. Warr1024: If this thing already works as-is, doesn't send the media in some horribly inefficient format that kills bandwidth, and doesn't introduce any worse-than-cosmetic bugs when used, and doesn't cause any regression when not used, then I'd have nothing to complain about it getting merged as it is already :-D Warr1024: I assume there must be some upper bound on the media size, possibly something like 64kib? hoodedice: is there a quick way to bind the view of the player to the direction the cart is travelling in (or the direction that the player gets into the cart)? hoodedice: if there isn't no worries, I'm just procrastinating here sfan5: Warr1024: the engine throws an error at 64MB sfan5: for practical use I'd suggest staying below 1M Warr1024: Haha, 1M is my goal for the total size of my entire game, including all the non-media stuff. I shouldn't have to worry :-) sfan5: hoodedice: look at set_look_horizontal hoodedice: thanks step hoodedice: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123125021114369/715968548484153384/Screenshot_from_2020-05-29_20-42-36.png hoodedice: this is totally why I built those massive pillars sfan5: 2020-05-29 18:47:19: WARNING[Server]: Deprecated usage of get_node_group, use get_item_group instead (at ...minetest/bin/../games/Crafter/mods/redstone/init.lua:108) sfan5: ^ oil_boi smh oil_boi: sfan5, is there a way to make the server stop and throw the deprecated call as an error? sfan5: deprecated_lua_api_handling = error oil_boi: jackpot, thanks oil_boi: What a mysterious server "Crafter Chaos" slightly modified too oil_boi: So there will be a setting on if a newly downloaded texture can replace the current one? rubenwardy: that's the difficulty with dynamic media sending oil_boi: Well no, all you have to do is minetest.runtime_add_media(texture,replace_current) oil_boi: Then have the code check if the namespace exists oil_boi: I'm very curious to see if the entire map would change if a mod called stone.png with it enabled, would it reload the texture into the gpu hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm rubenwardy: I'm talking about the internals, not the API rubenwardy: I wonder if you could just update the cached texture rubenwardy: in which case, no pointers will be invalidated rubenwardy: and the cache will stay oil_boi: Probably rubenwardy: oh, you'd have to clear all texture modified textures created from it oil_boi: A very exciting change nonetheless oil_boi: You know what oil_boi: I'm gonna do it oil_boi: I'm gonna make a c++ change finally rubenwardy: :O sfan5: oil_boi: do you have an usecase for replacing existing textures? oil_boi: Log out, change player texture, log back in oil_boi: Instead of playertexture1.png playertexture2.png sfan5: hm rubenwardy: might also be worth having a way for the server to forget textures, and not send them to new users rubenwardy: so you don't end up having to download the skins of the 1000 players that joined in the last two months rubenwardy: what happens if you add the texture and then immediate use it? Is it possible the client will use the texture before it fully loads it, resulting in a dummy texture? oil_boi: I can picture something really crazy down the line, having a moderator on the server being able to change the server texture pack rubenwardy: uh oh sfan5: rubenwardy: nope not possible rubenwardy: cool sfan5: the network layer guarantees delivery of the media push before the active object messages (if you them in the correct order on the server of course) sfan5: it doesn't do that for e.g. hud_add and that'll need to be worked around whodeadeyes: sfan5: as promised whodeadeyes: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2690 whodeadeyes: brb sfan5: whodeadeyes: maybe make the red a bit darker sfan5: it's quite bright whodeadeyes: will do if I see more people ask for it whodeadeyes: !seen paramat MinetestBot: whodeadeyes: paramat was last seen at 2019-12-20 22:22:09 UTC on #minetest whodeadeyes: doesn't check this channel? whodeadeyes: either way, good night guys Krock: but it's just evening rubenwardy: ~seen paramat ShadowBot: rubenwardy: I saw paramat in #minetest 22 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes, and 51 seconds ago saying "anyway, if someone wants it instantly, cheat it in. if you want to appreciate exploration, adventure and challenge, search for it" rubenwardy: huh Krock: rubenwardy: he only joins #minetest rarely rubenwardy: thought it would work on all channels Krock: > I saw paramat in #minetest 2 Krock: it does not "leak" data frmo other channels rubenwardy: before I queried rubenwardy: MinetestBot does rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up (Video) - YouTube Krock: wow thanks MinetestBot Krock: instead of title, return the URL to rickroll rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Urban Dictionary: no u Krock: !title MinetestBot: Krock: Urban Dictionary: no u rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: rubenwardy: I don't answer to you, fool oil_boi_: "but it's just evening" we must update the earth to be flat to remove timezone interference rubenwardy: see IRC time rubenwardy: also, rubenwardy: >implying the earth isn't already flat sfan5: the minetest earth certainly is flat rubenwardy: I think the canonical name for the minetest world isn't earth, it's map.sqlite rubenwardy: heh Krock: relevant https://i.redd.it/47rbryagolr41.jpg rubenwardy: lol texmex: Come join the Flat map.sqlite Society texmex: jeija is our nemesis luvo: a mod could be made to teleport you when you find the end of the world to the other end luvo: so there you have a round minetest globe NetherEran: There's a fork somewhere that turns the world into a torus and renders it round frabbit: weird... cant find the questions i asked here in the logs... o_0 Krock: frabbit: maybe you timed out, or asked them in another channel? frabbit: Krock: probably... (damn isp...) texmex: luvo: the mod exist, but it’s not pretty being teleported to completely different landscape and biome. Now if the perlin noise of the mapgens were made repeatable, it would be a different story :) oil_boi_: sfan5 try this silliness https://github.com/oilboi/minetest/commit/7c61d90e2ec16b36653cb885893c6bcc69e4be81 oil_boi_: I cannot figure out how to import the yaw from the other function to absolute a multiplier away from 0 so the x view bobbing still gets applied but the y stops, so it makes it look like you're not taking huge steps oil_boi_: I have also noticed that sometimes the bobbing does not reset properly even in the unmodified state so I will have to study the code more to fix that unaimillan: How to build lua_api.txt doc? sfan5: build to receive what? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add minetest.is_creative_enabled 1365a6a31 https://git.io/JfKBN (152020-05-29T20:45:40Z) unaimillan: local static site with documentation unaimillan: I guess, it's possible to call Doxygen for it, but I don't know how sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/mkdocs/build.sh unaimillan: yep, I'm trying, but what are the dependencies? oil_boi_: Which distro unaimillan: Ubuntu oil_boi_: https://pastebin.com/raw/kALpVz3L oil_boi_: cd ~/minetest oil_boi_: run these two commands in that directory https://pastebin.com/raw/2DCExQKE oil_boi_: the executable will be in the ~/minetest/bin directory unaimillan: but this will build whole MT engine, I'm particularly interested in Doxygen docs oil_boi_: oof oof oof my bad unaimillan: they require "Python-Markdown" and "mkdocs", but idk what are these MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Clean up CAO nametag handling and remove deprecated AO_CMD 134c8e1c3 https://git.io/JfKRO (152020-05-29T20:54:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: content_cao: Do not expire visuals when not necessary 13db7c262 https://git.io/JfKR3 (152020-05-29T20:54:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add disable_jump check for the player's feet 1334862a6 https://git.io/JfKRs (152020-05-29T20:53:58Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: carts: Fix item collection (#2689) 13e849d54 https://git.io/JfKRG (152020-05-29T20:54:47Z) oil_boi_: unaimillan, looks like apt-get python-markdown mkdocs-doc oil_boi_: Oh I'm sorry, just mkdocs * oil_boi_: searched the ubuntu repos oil_boi_: python-markdown appears to be python html support and mkdocs seems to be a site generator unaimillan: yep, worked, thanks. After all, index.html is laying in /public unaimillan: 🤦‍♂️ unaimillan: :facepalm: unaimillan: there exist online version https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/... oil_boi_: Here's a good question. Is there a builtin print operating for the c++ side of things? sfan5: throw stuff into verbosestream, warningstream, errorstream or actionstream sfan5: !tell oil_boi_ I just tried those viewbobbing changes you linked ealier and it might be *a bit* too much bobbing MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when oil_boi_ is around skyliner_369: I think there's a mod making standing in torches painful? what mod would that even be? Verticen: that mod sounds dumb tbh iamweasel: hi VanessaE ! iamweasel: hi Sokomine ! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest: Fix missing/incorrect liquid properties (#9955) 1351de4ae https://git.io/JfKg5 (152020-05-29T23:46:57Z) iamweasel: is 10+1 here? iamweasel: just curious iamweasel: hi everyone, i use many nicks, but you may know me as 4lister in message boards, i manage 3hightime servers iamweasel: but mostly, 13I AM WEASEL! iamweasel: is swearing allowed in this channel? rubenwardy: yes, but you may be asked to tone it back if too much https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules iamweasel: thanks rubenwardy :D freelikegnu: I have released the hivemind https://notabug.org/freelikegnu/hivemind/src/master/hivemind_schema.txt skyliner_369: how do I enable cheats for a world? Warr1024: Singleplayer? Probably "/grantme all" is what you'd want then. oil_boi: texmex, time for a multiplayer overhaul, I think the game has gotten far enough to the point where it's probably ready for servers skyliner_369: any recommended armor mods? skyliner_369: also... what level is diamond founf on? oil_boi: Is there a way for a player to see an entity attached to them in first person view? oil_boi: Using for: player can see their own body :D oil_boi: texmex, players now use the same damage mechanics as mobs do, this will make it really easy to implement armor, I hope :D texmex: oil_boi: Yeah, this will be very interesting! oil_boi: texmex, part one of multiplayer update: https://youtu.be/jr03JZoEkUA MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Reduce hud icons size to 12x12 pixels (#2669) 130662f96 https://git.io/JfoYP (152020-05-28T09:12:15Z) bingfengfsx: welcome to my server:45.195.155.59:30000 texmex: oil_boi: That looks great. Fights feel pretty snappy by the looks of it. Is there a server yet? I use to have a dev server with a webhook triggering on repo push events so that the server always had the latest version of the game code. Maybe you can take use of that. Miniontoby: hey guys Miniontoby: !tell rubenwardy I translated your app to Dutch: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/minetest/mtmods4android/nl/ plz add it to it MinetestBot: Miniontoby: I'll pass that on when rubenwardy is around Miniontoby: I am confused * Miniontoby: away lunch * Miniontoby: back Miniontoby: is there anyone who can talk to me??? bingfengfsx: server restart success Miniontoby: !nl ContentDB Flag Blacklist Miniontoby: !translate ContentDB Flag Blacklist bingfengfsx: ten Miniontoby: nine bingfengfsx: Is tenplus1 online? Miniontoby: nope Miniontoby: https://skribbl.io/?4wHxEu0yZUg7 Miniontoby: play with us Miniontoby: https://skribbl.io/?4wHxEu0yZUg7 Miniontoby: anyone Miniontoby: plz Miniontoby: https://skribbl.io/?4wHxEu0yZUg7 Miniontoby: anyone Miniontoby: vague Miniontoby: https://skribbl.io/?4wHxEu0yZUg7 Miniontoby: plz join Miniontoby: need more players Miniontoby: heavygale thanks Miniontoby: start in 5 secs heavygale: let's see if i know any english words Miniontoby: 4 Miniontoby: 3 Miniontoby: 2 Miniontoby: 1 Miniontoby: me too Miniontoby: gj Miniontoby: I am bad at englsih rschulman: oil_boi: Crafter is looking really good! Miniontoby: I make it bad Miniontoby: I cant draw it Miniontoby: more players plz heavygale: sry, im out, have work to do Miniontoby: doesnt matter Miniontoby: was a fun game Miniontoby: any one Miniontoby: else Miniontoby: https://skribbl.io/?4wHxEu0yZUg7 Miniontoby: come Miniontoby: someone plz join Miniontoby: https://skribbl.io/?4wHxEu0yZUg7 jonssons: has the fortress already been implemented? rubenwardy: wrong channel, jonssons? MinetestBot: rubenwardy: May-28 09:54 UTC I translated your app to Dutch: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/minetest/mtmods4android/nl/ plz add it to it jonssons: rubenwardy: it is indeed. sorry for the noise Krock: !mod hunger_ng MinetestBot: Krock: Hunger NG: A next generation hunger mod (hunger_ng) by Linuxdirk - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19664 - https://gitlab.com/4w/hunger_ng Krock: !mod ufowrecks MinetestBot: Krock: There are no results for this query :( Krock: !mod aotearoa MinetestBot: Krock: Aotearoa [aotearoa] by Dokimi - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20770 - https://github.com/DokimiCU/aotearoa oil_boi: Krock, this is very cool, does it still work? https://github.com/SmallJoker/colored_names Krock: ofc it does Krock: using it all the time, so it has to work in most cases Krock: though detection sucks when servers use some obscure chat format lmat: I'm wanting to add the mod: https://github.com/Bad-Command/teleporter/ nephele: Krock, it's all utf-8 in the end :D Krock: nephele: there's only byte arrays in Lua lmat: I git clone;d it in my mods directory, but the setup for the mod is such that init.lua is in teleporter/teleporter/init.lua, so the server complains that it can't find init.lua. What's the best way around this? Maybe I need to create an ad-hoc bundle with this as the only mod in the bundle? nephele: Krock, so? the visible text is utf-8 regardless oil_boi: Hmmm, interesting, core.register_on_receiving_chat_message does not exist nephele: lmat, that depends on how the mod is structured really, maybe you just need move the mod one level up (as in move teleporter/teleporter to teleporter) oil_boi: is this designed for 0.4? lmat: nephele: That makes sense, but then getting updates isn't as simple as git fetch --all; git checkout origin/master; lmat: touch modpack.txt; ? oil_boi: Oooooh csm doi Krock: nephele: but there are no UTF-8 functions for Lua nephele: lmat, well, i don't know how it is laid out :D nephele: making it a modpack could work, but same argument for git nephele: Krock, there are if you make them lmat: What is the block in the middle of the second recipe at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2149 ? lmat: nephele: Okay :-) lmat: The block looks like a cobblestone with an army jacket on... lmat: Hmm, this teleporter mod is causing grief. Last commit 2012. Is it probably too old to be of use? Krock: likely that it'll cause many "deprecated API" warnings texmex: lmat: Try https://github.com/tacotexmex/telemosaic :) lmat: Krock: It actually crashes the server "expected string got nil" or something like that. lmat: texmex: Thanks! I need to be able to limit teleporters so that folks can't teleport to unexplored territories. The teleporter mod I picked has a setting: "require paired teleporters" or something like that which is exactly what I want. lmat: texmex: Hmm, So with this mod, you can't teleport very far away, but have to have beacons all along the route and teleport over and over to get far away? texmex: lmat: Good! Yes, this solution is very ”in-world”. Note that the connection between two beacons aren’t necessarily symmetrical. lmat: What does "in-world" mean? texmex: lmat: No, you just have to power the beacon accordingly. There are settings for the reach each beacon tier bringa. lmat: texmex: For instance, I have a mine that goes down to about y=-1100. I would like to teleport from my home (y=0 or so) to there. texmex: In-world means that there’s no pesky coordinates visible, and that players need to work for it. texmex: lmat: You just need to surround the beacon with more power nodes (can’t recall the in-game name of the guys) lmat: texmex: At my home and at the base of the mine, I'll need to have like 20 power booster nodes so that the teleporters can "reach" each otheR? lmat: s/teleporters/beacons/ lmat: Oh wait, but they can be paired using a mese crystal fragment.. hisforever: Hi I can't seem to get a sign I made for the billboard mod. here is the pastbin url https://pastebin.com/vn12YQrE? Krock: add } before "wood" hisforever: thank you Krock Krock: np cheapie: I'm kinda glad that I don't have to do all the math stuff to see if traffic signals are actually warranted on any streets in MT :P cheapie: I have one signal (at a midblock crosswalk, no intersection) that's been in operation for about 2 years now, and in that time, it's had five pedestrians. cheapie: Not five pedestrians per day, five pedestrians ever. Krock: you must be living near the world's edge cheapie: It's on a server that doesn't see many players any more, and the spawn point was also moved pretty far away from there some time ago. oil_boi: Is there a callback for creating a new inventory for a player that's persistent between when they log out/server restarts/etc Krock: oil_boi: all callbacks Krock: player inventories are persistent oil_boi: Krock, I mean a new one. How would I do that? Just inv = player:get_inv() inv:set_size("flarp", 4) ? Krock: that or set_list oil_boi: Oi, thanks Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! oil_boi: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! oil_boi: What if it calls !next itself? :O Krock: ‫!next hisforever: I oil_boi: Want Krock: Some oil_boi: Borgors Krock: Goodbye oil_boi: Damn these text adventure games are getting too real hisforever: I'm having trouble trying to get this auto_sales into billboard Mod? https://imgur.com/a/ugP6TJF imi: hi imi: is there a hotkey and/or a chat command that I can use to start/stop world saving while I'm ingame (without leaving the game)? sfan5: there isn't imi: should be Warr1024: In principle there should be a lot of things, like the option to change display settings or texture packs without relogging. Until somebody wants it badly enough to actually do a PR for it, though, there probably won't be. unaimillan: Hi! I'm new to Minetest and haven't yet researched the topic well, but I have an idea. Is there anything (any API) that could allow me to access the game from my favourite programming language? Like, eDSL in Python or Haskell, which could allow connect to Minetest server and act like a bot or just execute commands? unaimillan: So that, for example, I could code some building in my IDE, get the chain of commands executed on server and then interact with result via Minetest client 🙃 nephele: there is an html api you could use for ipc, potentially you can also open a local file descripor for ipc, not to sure about the second part :) sfan5: https://github.com/arpruss/raspberryjammod-minetest exists specifically to emulate the "Minecraft Pi" API sfan5: more general mods could be written and maybe someone already has oil_boi: sfan5 https://i.imgur.com/GQIcmtn.png oil_boi: :D skyliner_369: are player skins a 5.3 feature? Warr1024: Unless something has changed in 5.3, players skins are a mod feature. Warr1024: 3 ways I've seen skins done: (1) players pick from a predefined wardrobe and customize with different layers, (2) players can submit custom skins, but they don't go into effect until the next server restart, or (2) players skins are dynamically converted to texturemods, which is complex and heavy, but allows no-restart fully custom skins. rubenwardy: correct MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Update ContentDB dialog (#9949) 139a64a9f https://git.io/Jfoy5 (152020-05-28T23:52:48Z) yrungr: is there a way to list the other players on a server? Lone_Wolf: .list_players Lone_Wolf: IIRC anyway Lone_Wolf: Might not work on all servers Lone_Wolf: I guess they're listed in /status too yrungr: ah, status does the trick. thanks Lone_Wolf. :) oil_boi: texmex, please try the automatically downloading skins oil_boi: it's an extreme proof of concept, so it might crash and the http api dumps a few lines of nonsense into the terminal oil_boi: It pulls my skin for now, but in the next update if you join a server with your github name and you have a repo called "crafter_skindex" with a skin.png file in it, it will automatically skin your player as it no matter what server you go on oil_boi: I had to scour every corner of the internet to find the correct lua functions and libraries to make that work correctly oil_boi: Now unfortunately I can't set the wieldhand to match the skin yet, I might have to force trick the game into turning it into an item and then putting it back as a node leo_rockway: oil_boi: the game crashed for me. I'm trying to find some pastebin I can use to show you the error. leo_rockway: (related to skins) nephele: oil_boi, but wieldhand is already an item, no? oil_boi: nephele, well no, the 3d one is a node oil_boi: I would have to find a way to create a new node somehow nephele: hmm, i never set that in my game :) leo_rockway: oil_boi: https://privatebin.net/?026ee310b5bf859c#BWgKvEyHVSXyvHom3PWAgSqbQYP9dqiBRYfhDJz8EDxB oil_boi: Oooh one second leo_rockway: that was just after starting my world. oil_boi: Did you get any mod security warnings beforehand? leo_rockway: nope oil_boi: Are you on the latest build of dev? leo_rockway: I can get you the whole output if you need to see it. Didn't seem relevant, though. leo_rockway: oil_boi: yesterdays. I can build right now if needed. leo_rockway: actually, not yesterday's. This morning's. oil_boi: Hmmm, I don't know then leo_rockway: I'll build latest, just in case. oil_boi: That means mod security failed to be granted on line 58 leo_rockway: I don't know how mod security works. To me mod security is a WAF used by Apache, or HAProxy, haha. oil_boi: Hmmm, I added secure.http_mods = skins oil_boi: and secure.trusted_mods = skins to the minetest.conf in crafter leo_rockway: okay, no crash now, but error. leo_rockway: https://privatebin.net/?af691b7dcad5975f#7b6g6tagTZaCiCp5jr6aHqGaKVmMHhgZh6N5qmrtEGXn leo_rockway: oil_boi: 404 leo_rockway: on this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/singleplayer/crafter_skindex/master/skin.png oil_boi: Oh that's perfect! I can't turn off the 404 error message but at least it's error handling :D leo_rockway: yes, it's promising. leo_rockway: it did try to curl something, at least. oil_boi: Here's how it works: Create a github repo called "crafter_skindex" and add a minecraft skin and call it skin.png and make sure it's public oil_boi: then you create a local server and join with your github name and it'll auto load your skin :) oil_boi: I don't have hosting so that's the best thing I could come up with hahaha leo_rockway: not that I love AWS, but they have free tiers that could probably be used for this. leo_rockway: btw, it looks like the snowman snowballs can hit through doors. leo_rockway: oh, I hadn't noticed that chests were animated and had sound! Emerald2: guzzi: there is a way to make handholds to climb up walls if need be. I think it's hold down right click with an empty hand until the node becomes glowy. oil_boi: leo_rockway, yeah I gotta fix that :P oil_boi: Also yes! That's part of the default MTG chests, but now they are all trap chests, if you put redstone next to them they activate it leo_rockway: oh, rigth, MTG has those chests. They are not really animated, just 2 states (open and closed). It looks good enough to me. I should try to use the red stone with them. leo_rockway: I'm not sure if an activated chest is supposed to open... Verticen: I kinda like the snappy look of MTG chests tbh leo_rockway: I haven't done enough stuff with mesecons / redstone to know what I'm doing, haha. leo_rockway: Verticen: yeah, this effect is good enough. And it's lighter than a full animation. Verticen: ^ Verticen: I think it matches how doors snap from one position to the other better as well leo_rockway: true leo_rockway: oh, when the chest opens the redstone activates, not the other way around. Which makes sense. leo_rockway: there's probably a lot of cool stuff that can be built with mesecons. I should watch a tutorial or something. texmex: oil_boi: Oh wow, it’s happening! dennisjenkins: Is there a way to move a lua_controller without loosing the lua code that is inside it? skyliner_369: how do I get dark areas to be less pitch black? kind of like cranking the brightness to bright in minecraft maybe Emerald2: Adjust your gamma setting. Emerald2: Luckily there's a search box in the settings so you can actually find it. :) skyliner_369: I wanted to bump it up a bit for easier spelunking. I can't tell sometimes if it's a short drop or a massive ravine ANAND: Gamma doesn't have much of an effect beyond a certain point epoch: is there a headlamp mod? Emerald2: I adjusted mine and it helps me see. Emerald2: I feel like the setting got renamed. skyliner_369: how do I switch Minetest to full screen? skyliner_369: found it ANAND: skyliner_369: Native fullscreen causes issues on Linux, in case you're on Linux skyliner_369: am on windows ANAND: Ok ANAND: Emerald2: The setting hasn't been renamed, but I'm unable to see much of a difference. Rather, it's the sky's brightness that varies hugely with gamma. ANAND: Even if higher gamma does indeed brighten up not-fully-dark areas, the sky is brightened so much more, and I'd have even more difficulty seeing things. Emerald2: I have 2 gamma things in settings. First is 2. Second is 2.2 ANAND: The plain Gamma is the one that matters most (display_gamma) skyliner_369: does the game do any sort of supersampling or MSAA? texmex: !tell oil_boi It worked flawlessly! I've been thinking about this feature for so long and wondered why nobody tried it earlier. I actually like that the hosting is "decentralized" btw, it's very lean. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tacotexmex/crafter_skindex/master/screenshot_20200527_083332.png MinetestBot: texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around ANAND: There's FSAA ANAND: Setting name is 'fsaa'. I think the Anti-aliasing dropdown corresponds to this setting as well. ANAND: The anti-aliasing dropdown is in the settings tab _Zaizen_: Hi everyone, I would like to know if there's a way to disable fall damage on only some players and not everyone. be aware that I don't want to make the player immune from other damages, I only want to disable fall damage on that player texmex: !tell oil_boi Watching the video I start to imagine different uses of dynamic textures in the HUD, where a dynamic map would be a more interesting one. I’m thinking that visualizing a cropped version of a world map generated i minetestmapper would be nice. MinetestBot: texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around sfan5: _Zaizen_: minetest.register_on_player_hpchange _Zaizen_: Does that activate after the player gets damaged or before? frabbit: hi. ive compiled minetest as a bare server. but how to run it? frabbit: ah damn i ot some error frabbit: what path to give for -DIRRLICHT_SOURCE_DIR=/the/irrlicht/source frabbit: ? frabbit: in src are some irrlicht files... frabbit: do i need to run -DIRRLICHT_SOURCE_DIR=src/irr* then? sfan5: you only need -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=/somewhere/irrlicht-1.8.4/include sfan5: (no need to install the irrlicht library sfan5: _Zaizen_: as the documentation says you have the option to run it before frabbit: sfan5: theres no such file frabbit: find minetest-5.2.0/ -name *irrlicht-1.8.4* frabbit: no output sfan5: you need to download irrlicht yourself frabbit: ah ok thats what it means frabbit: i thought there where some irrlicht stuff in the minetest archive that i have to exclue frabbit: hmm. i have irrlicht here only in usr/include /usr/share/doc/ and /var/lib/dpkg/info/ frabbit: its debian sfan5: /usr/include/irrlicht should work then frabbit: sfan5: ok thx =) frabbit: hmm error again.. =( frabbit: while runnig cmake frabbit: *running frabbit: ah wait frabbit: 11:47 < sfan5> you only need -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=/somewhere/irrlicht-1.8.4/include frabbit: ive runned the command option from wiki again sfan5: what does cmake say? frabbit: sfan5: aw nothing ive runned the wrong option first, not the one u gave me ;) frabbit: now its fine frabbit: running make now frabbit: [100%] Linking CXX executable ../bin/minetestserver frabbit: i see! =D frabbit: sfan5: thank you. _Zaizen_: sfan5:thank you frabbit: hmm.. ./minetestserver --config ~/minetest/minetest-5.2.0/minetest.conf gave me this: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/7b0b6348/ sfan5: download minetest_game 5.2.0 and place it in games/ frabbit: ive done that frabbit: it is in that folder frabbit: of course frabbit: do i have to rename it to minetest_game maybe? sfan5: probably frabbit: ok... o_0 frabbit: pretty picki this thin gthen =D frabbit: ah running now => frabbit: hmm void world and minimal? thats weird frabbit: it doesnt start because of naming patterns and now it isnt mtg? frabbit: must "default_game = minetest" in conf be enable or enabel and changed to minetest_game? frabbit: both do not work... frabbit: no world dir here... frabbit: but how to create a world from cli? frabbit: had a disconnect =( frabbit: its still minetest minimal and a void world no matter what i try.. frabbit: i creates an empty world folder i gave --worldname HereTheName as server starting option... frabbit: do i really have to create a world on a client and copy it to that folder? that cant not be correct... or not? frabbit: and what about that subgame issue here frabbit: mtg is in the correct dir and named as minetest_game frabbit: the documenattion of a dedicated bare server is not very good... frabbit: *documentation frabbit: ok i copied a world now to the server dir .minetest/worlds/. and that works frabbit: but why does the game not create a random world when just running minetestserver? sfan5: should work fine sfan5: e.g. minetestserver --world some/folder/somewhere --gameid minetest frabbit: sfan5: that will create a random world? sfan5: it should yes frabbit: sfan5: ok i will test this later again =). thanks again for your help. frabbit: can i remove the "libirrlicht-dev" (and maybe others?) from the list of necessary packages for a bare server compile? sfan5: frabbit: you can download the irrlicht source separately, you will only need the "include" folder sfan5: alternatively you can uninstall irrlicht entirely after compiling frabbit: sfan5: i see thx =) frabbit: bye texmex: !tell oil_boi Coming back thinking about that skin feature. It’s just so elegant (maybe not only the code, i don’t know, but the subtle experience of it). When thinking of other places store the skin I think the forums could work as a decent less techie place to use. That is IF celeron55 gets around to converting it to modern software =D MinetestBot: texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around texmex: !tell oil_boi Oh, and you should be able to catch that HTTP-API error message before it gets to chat, iirc. Just can’t recall how right now. MinetestBot: texmex: yeah, sure, whatever MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-27 06:36 UTC It worked flawlessly! I've been thinking about this feature for so long and wondered why nobody tried it earlier. I actually like that the hosting is "decentralized" btw, it's very lean. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/tacotexmex/crafter_skindex/master/screenshot_20200527_083332.png MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-27 09:31 UTC Watching the video I start to imagine different uses of dynamic textures in the HUD, where a dynamic map would be a more interesting one. I’m thinking that visualizing a cropped version of a world map generated i minetestmapper would be nice. MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-27 11:41 UTC Coming back thinking about that skin feature. It’s just so elegant (maybe not only the code, i don’t know, but the subtle experience of it). When thinking of other places store the skin I think the forums could work as a decent less techie place to use. That is IF celeron55 gets around to converting it to modern software =D MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-27 11:42 UTC Oh, and you should be able to catch that HTTP-API error message before it gets to chat, iirc. Just can’t recall how right now. oil_boi: texmex, sfan5 cleared it and fixed the request insecurity by using the world directory as a temp dir :D oil_boi: I might be able to release this as a mod on the forum if I can find a better way to host skins oil_boi: I can't use the http://minetest.fensta.bplaced.net/ because it can only index by id in order of when it was uploaded, also users cannot modify their skins from what I can see. I suppose github is the closest thing to a linked account I can get right now oil_boi: Also yes, it would be very cool if you could store your skin with your forum name :D texmex: Awesome texmex: oil_boi: what about contendb? oil_boi: texmex, Il check this out oil_boi: I'll* check this out in a bit, can users automatically upload their content like the current github method? sfan5: I don't think contentdb is suited for skin uploading sfan5: at least not currently rubenwardy: Correct, it's not rubenwardy: It assumes uploads are zip files texmex: sfan5: What about a custom field in the user profile? rubenwardy: Plus, it doesn't assign a package to a user sfan5: texmex: in the forums or contentdb? sfan5: adding it to the latter would probably be simpler, but yes that'd work texmex: sfan5: Leaning towards cdb since forum is so ancient, and since cdb has github auth. lmat: I'm using mesecons, but I can't build a FPGA. I am able to build mesecon (wire). lmat: I have all the sub-mods there, and I let the game generate all the "load_mod_mesecons_***" and changed false to true. lmat: and restarted ^_^ lmat: I see load_mod_mesecons = true and load_mod_mesecons_fpga = true but no fpga in the game. sfan5: try /giveme mesecons_fpga:fpga0000 freelikegnu: hmm with AmigaOS4 port of Irrlicht 1.8.4 lmat: sfan5: Do I need creative to do that? sfan5: you need the "give" privilege lmat: got it! lmat: sfan5: I don't feel like my woes are fixed :-) I still can't make the thing without the give priv. lmat: sfan5: Maybe the recipe at http://mesecons.net/items.html is incorrect? (mesecon, mesecon, empty, silicon, silicon, empty, mesecon, mesecon, empty) lmat: I put that in, but it doesn't make the fpga programmer. lmat: Also can't make a lua controller: silicon, silicon, mesecon, silicon, silicon, mesecon, mesecon, mesecon, empty. lmat: "give" works so that means I have the mod loaded properly. Now I just need to figure out the correct recipe /o\ oil_boi: Time to make this skins mod work with MTG oil_boi: Oooh, it just works nephele: famous last words oil_boi: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CZFKWt3S2Ys/maxresdefault.jpg nephele: :D oil_boi: Hopefully this explains it enough https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24813 oil_boi: I dunno that's pretty much done now, not much more I can actually add to it, so I guess it needs to be moved to mod releases oil_boi: When we can create new nodes when the game is running I'll update it :D FreeFull: Already seeing the comments, "My skin won't load because github is down" oil_boi: Oh yeah, that's life though nephele: I have no github account, clearly crafter is trying to discriminate against me! /s MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Make ContentDB downloads not block the UI (#9948) 13f90ca96 https://git.io/Jfro2 (152020-05-27T16:02:09Z) oil_boi: _local game crashes github west coast server, more news at 11_ nephele: (X) oil_boi: Hm, we have a registered_nodes list, what if I just hijack it and insert a new node definition with a texture made from the downloaded skin? rschulman: IcyDiamond: (If you're around) Is the composter meant to not take inputs from tubes, or am I missing something obvious? Krock: oil_boi: feel free to modify that list, though the engine won't notice any of these changes IcyDiamond: rschulman: it should Krock: it must rschulman: Huh. rschulman: Oh, also, while I have you, in what machine can I charge up my drill? rschulman: IcyDiamond: Yeah, I'm watching wheat in a pipe bounce off the side of it. Krock: batteries Krock: (if that concept is similar to technic) IcyDiamond: rschulman: power cell charges powered items rschulman: Cool, that's what I figured. Just haven't built one yet. IcyDiamond: hmm thats weird, the tube should work rschulman: Is it just me or is it not working for you too? IcyDiamond: it's not working for me either and i dont understand why oil_boi: Can I turn an entity into an item? sfan5: that question is kinda too unspecific oil_boi: Can I have an entity that's set as a wield item, modify the entities texture, place the entity as a node, then drop the entity as an item and then set the player's hand as the dropped modified node? sfan5: *reads the sentence again* sfan5: ah sfan5: the answer is no sfan5: you can't get a node that looks different at runtime sfan5: such a thing wouldn't be entirely unlikely for the wield texture though, which you could use to implement a skinned hand sfan5: oh missing context: pretend I said "...and is unlikely to be implemented" before that Warr1024: You can't modify the look of a node at runtime, but you can fake it with an invisible node + a visible entitiy. sfan5: does nodecore do that? ;) oil_boi: "which you could use to implement a skinned hand" any hacks to do that? :L Actually, can an entity just be turned into an item at all? Krock: nodes are items Krock: items are fixed after the server media is populated sfan5: you can have an entity that looks like any real or fictional node sfan5: but not the inverse Krock: though you can use palettes to colorize it Warr1024: yes, I use the entity+node hack pretty extensively in nodecore. Everything can be placed as a node in that game. Krock: Warr1024: I cannot place my player character as a node Warr1024: I don't actually customize the look of items per se, but it lets me use wield meshes and such IcyDiamond: rschulman: fix published IcyDiamond: let me know if something broke because of this, i dont have time to do more testing on it unfortunately rschulman: That's service! Thanks! rschulman: IcyDiamond: Sorry to report that I updated from the Online Content screen and am still getting the same result. IcyDiamond: oh what, injector directly works but tube doesn't IcyDiamond: what rschulman: Oh yeah, I'm using a tube, I didn't think to try an injector. IcyDiamond: can you update again? IcyDiamond: hopefully some time soon i'll have time to clean up my code a bit xD rschulman: Content DB isn't showing the update yet, but I'll give it a try when it does. IcyDiamond: i replaced the release rubenwardy: It may take 15 minutes to appear imi: hi nephele: Hello imi: is there a world downloader CSM? which would download/save whatever mapblocks are seen by the client xBarkDog: In settings there should be a localmapsave setting. imi: it's client->network->saving map received from server. let's say I activate it. where does the map saved to? will it be saved in sqlite format? how do I then play on this downloaded map? sfan5: it will be saved to your world folder with the server address as name sfan5: and yes it will be sqlite3 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Value copy / allocation optimizations mostly in server, SAO and seria… 13471e567 https://git.io/JfrSV (152020-05-27T19:58:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Change item entity collisionbox so that they don't sink into the ground 132fd5f38 https://git.io/JfrSw (152020-05-27T19:58:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix falling entity not falling through players 1303dae5f https://git.io/JfrSr (152020-05-27T19:58:20Z) Warr1024: World is saved as sqlite, but recreating the settings and metadata is left as an exercise for the user. If the server operator offers a public snapshot download they could save you a lot of hassle, but it's not necessarily trivial to set one of those up. imi: how do I delete all flowing water? Now water flows into the void ... :( imi: or even better if I can start a world without any water physics at all sfan5: worldedit should be able to help you with that lmat: I'm using https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_animal. I have tamed a cow. How do I get it to go where I want? lmat: sfan5: O freaking crap. The reason I couldn't find the recipe for FPGA nor could I make it is because I was using Silicon Lump, not Silicon. They're the same thing but from different mods. lmat: Vanessa has raised this issue on github issues to mesecons, but to deaf ears. rschulman: Nice, thank you. guzzi: playing nodecore. i seem to have or something. all i see is black guzzi: anyway to killme or reset. or am i just stuck? guzzi: of course now i have nothing to dig with guzzi: changed my view and i was only one block in so i dug out guzzi: f7 saved me Emerald2: Are you playing on the server guzzi? Some of us are on NodeCore Community. gh00p: So.. in a private world, I did a bunch of building, then wandered away and have lost track of the location I was building stuff in. Any way to find coordinates of previous activity? sfan5: look into debug.txt gh00p: sfan5: ah, I see activity with coordinates there. Is there a way to see my current coordinates in the hud? sfan5: press f5 gh00p: Hmm, no f5 on android, but i guess I can copy the world to a real computer for investigation../ gh00p: Also hmm, there is no keymap_toggle_debug in minetest.conf on android. I wonder how that works! :) hisforever: Hi I'm having trouble with the billboard mod? here is a pastebin copy https://pastebin.com/FhQ2nZqM Ravise: Can you point me to the billboard mod source? hisforever: here is a pic of the error? https://imgur.com/a/fE8OdcA Ravise: I've got the idea from the pastebin - now, where did you get billboard from? hisforever: gitgub hisforever: I'll get the url hisforever: https://github.com/acmgit/billboard hisforever: there you go :) Ravise: I don't get the error when I'm running game with the mod - try pulling the source and running the server again Ravise: The error suggests there is syntax error in the source, but since I can run it, it seems to be fixed hisforever: ok Rsvise thanis Ravise: Or did you make some edits in the code? The source looks old enough MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest: Fix crash in player unittest (#9937) 131afd6d6 https://git.io/JfwSV (152020-05-26T17:49:02Z) oil_boi: Is there an http api example? NetherEran: I've used it once, here's the code https://notabug.org/NetherEran/The_End/src/master/mods/misc/update_checker/init.lua Krock: oil_boi: https://github.com/minetest-mods/skinsdb/blob/master/skins_updater.lua oil_boi: Krock, this is literally exactly what I was looking for, thank you Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Krock: though NetherEran's example is easier to understand oil_boi: This is the official place where we store player skins? Krock: http://minetest.fensta.bplaced.net ? not official, but the most often used source oil_boi: base64, this is genius! Krock: no, it's a damn workaround Krock: binary data transfer did not work properly when this was written oil_boi: Binary data transfer? Krock: minetest.features.httpfetch_binary_data = true, Krock: yes. transferring the 0 byte Krock: which otherwise marks the end of text oil_boi: You can load new textures into the game as it's running? Krock: how did the topic move from HTTP to ingame? Krock: no, all textures must exist on server start, and cannot be loaded afterwards oil_boi: What if we could make this a bit better oil_boi: hmm oil_boi: It saves the data onto the hard drive?? :O Conradish006: I made LimeCht work! Conradish006: *limeChat Conradish006: Hopefully I won't randomly disconnect anymore Wuzzy: How do you rightclick in Android? Jhalman: Pretty sure right click in Android is Double tap? nephele: always bumped me out that minetest android does not support mice on android.. :) Conradish006: Right click by holding your finger on the button until a little menu pops up Conradish006: I tried using a mouse as well Conradish006: I was disappointed to find it didn't work MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix devtest being ignored by .gitignore 138713924 https://git.io/JfwNO (152020-05-26T21:33:16Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Devtest game: Update biome registrations (#9936) 13ba553e2 https://git.io/JfwAR (152020-05-26T22:11:33Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix liquids refusing to flow in X+ or Z+ in some cases (#9874) 1358f523e https://git.io/JfwA6 (152020-05-26T22:17:23Z) oil_boi: Is there a way to make a combined string that's going to be a texture into a texture and then add onto it? rubenwardy: you can group modifiers using () rubenwardy: you can't use it to exceed the limit though Conradish006: I'm having issues with the protection on my server Conradish006: It was working, then I started seeing some griefing and found out that it is no longer working Conradish006: The areas say that they're protected, but it still allows breaking of items by any player in the protected area Conradish006: I used the areasprotector mod for Blocky Survival as it works with the built in protection via commands Conradish006: Here is the link to the mod https://github.com/BlockySurvival/areasprotector sfan5: have you tried asking the mod author? Conradish006: Not yet Conradish006: I believe the same mod as what is used on VE's servers Conradish006: So possibly she knows guzzi: Emerald2, I am not playing on the server. I setup my own. Conradish006: I forgot to mention that even areas protected by command are not working oil_boi: Can you not do "blank.png^[combine:5,10:1,1=p.png^[colorize:#FFFFFF:255]:2,1=p.png^[colorize:#FFFF00:255]"? oil_boi: oops one second "blank.png^[combine:5,10:1,1=p.png^[colorize:#FFFFFF:255:2,1=p.png^[colorize:#FFFF00:255" oil_boi: Or am I doing something super wrong here? rubenwardy: try using () gh00p: Hi folks. I had a low-battery shutoff while running minetest on Android, and now the game crashes every time I try to load the self-hosted world I was in. I gather something got corrupted in data files. Is there a way to diagnose or repair this kind of thing? Would hate to lose all the stuff I was building. :/ Emerald2: gh00p: is there a crash message? gh00p: Emerald2: nope, the application just quits, before the progress bar even has a chance to move. Emerald2: I'm not familiar with minetest on android, so hopefully somebody else has an answer for you. gh00p: Emerald2: ah, there is a `debug.txt` in /sdcard/Minetest/, with entries at the end which list errors... http://sprunge.us/24tCL3 gh00p: The last line looks the most damning, I think. gh00p: Anything with "fatal error" seems like a good candidate. :) gh00p: I'm running version 5.1.0.25 from f-droid, the Play Store version is even older. Emerald2: Ahh interesting. Wasn't sure if that file existed on android. gh00p: Hmm, for kicks, I'll see if I can copy the world directory over to my mac and load it there. gh00p: Emerald2: this is interesting... gh00p: sqlite> select count(*) from blocks; gh00p: Error: attempt to write a readonly database gh00p: The weird thing here is that while I did open the map in readonly mode, another (working) map did not give me this error. gh00p: This was a 5.2 minetest running on a mac, using a copy of the map copied over from the android device (5.1). And older backup worked fine, a newer copy crashes the same way. Debug data is here: http://sprunge.us/rvfKsj gh00p: I even tried copying the newer map file into the "working" world, which then crashed. So it looks like my map.sqlite is corrupt. cheapie: gh00p: If you have the sqlite CLI installed, you can try loading the map.sqlite up in that ("sqlite3 map.sqlite" in a terminal, from in the world dir) and then running "PRAGMA integrity_check;" (the trailing ; is important) from in there - it won't repair anything, but it should tell you if your map.sqlite is indeed corrupt or not. gh00p: cheapie: it returns "ok", but the "select count(*) from blocks;" returns 72501,. which seems like too many. cheapie: 72501 mapblocks doesn't sound like too many to me :P cheapie: My test world here has 22731, and that's just some tiny test world that I haven't moved very far from the origin in. gh00p: Ah, right, I just tested some other maps and they're all different. Okay, so how would I diagnose this? gh00p: If map.sqlite is readable, is it possible it has a locked record somewhere that's getting in the way? I don't even know if that's possible. cheapie: I'm not sure, but it does sound like an engine bug to me at this point and not a corrupt map. cheapie: May be worth asking in #minetest-dev given that something internal to the engine seems to be breaking here. gh00p: Thanks. Oh, did you see my debug info at sprunge, above? cheapie: The part with the LBM manager stuff crashing? Yep, that's part of why I think it's an engine problem of some sort. gh00p: I think "EnvArgsEnd not found" might have meant something too. gh00p: Anyway, off to bed for me. Thanks for the advice. gorilla: When running in windows singleplayer environment, I have noted that the saplings seem to not grow (yes aware that they are instant from saplings to fully gron). Version 5.2.0 gorilla: I take that back, the saplings do grow but I'm not understanding when... yes, I have been putting them on a dirt block with plenty of sunlight. Out`Of`Control: On my server saplings grow, but really slow. epoch: I think most of the "grow" code will trigger at regular intervals and each time the plants have a random chance of growing up. epoch: also I'm pretty sure saplings won't grow if when they grew they'd be growing through something else fruitsnack: Hello, how can I check presence of sunlight somewhere? fruitsnack: is there some flags or something, or the best I can do is to check if there's no nodes above? sfan5: compare get_node_light for the air above, it can return both the day and night light sfan5: and if day light > night light, the sun reaches there sfan5: this isn't perfect in presence of artifical light but the best I could think of fruitsnack: Well, I mainly wanted to use it to check if player is sheltered sfan5: might work though since artifical light has values < LIGHT_SUN fruitsnack: I thought mese lamp from default has the same light value as the sunlight fruitsnack: And another question, how perfomance-costly raycasts are? Is it faster to do one raycast or to interate over a few nodes above the player? fruitsnack: to check if there's nodes above,for example to the end of mapblock sfan5: hard to say, I suggest benchmarking it fruitsnack: hm, really inconclusive, results on my machine seems to be approximately the same, but there's quite a lot of jitter fruitsnack: both go from 0.03 to 0.1 ms, without any visible increase with increasing distance rubenwardy: minetest.get_node_light() for day time equal 15 juangh: hello there guys. goot time for all of you and, please, keep safe. Conradish006: Hello? juangh: i need your help: how can i increase the ram memory in my server to be used? Conradish006: You mean increase the actual hardware? juangh: when i use wordedit, for example, and i made some kind of edition, the server crash around 2GB of ram memory... juangh: no no sfan5: are you using luajit? Conradish006: Oh okay juangh: can i configure the server to let it use more ram? juangh: i have a server with 64GB of ram Conradish006: I figured it would automatically Conradish006: Mine did juangh: the proccess crash when i made a world edition... Conradish006: I dunno, try asking someone who hosts a server at home juangh: ;-) thanks! juangh: 2020-05-22 14:07:33: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: OOM error from mod 'worldedit_commands' in callback on_chat_message(): not enough memory juangh: 2020-05-22 14:07:33: ERROR[Main]: Current Lua memory usage: 1412 MB Conradish006: I did host a server at home, but my internet was too unreliable juangh: this is an example juangh: this was last 22 sfan5: so are you using luajit or not? sfan5: because luajit has a 2GB limit unless you use LuaJIT in its "gc64" variant juangh: sfan5 i'm sorry, i don't read it before...no...let me see...what luajit is? sfan5: try minetestserver --version sfan5: and see if you have USE_LUAJIT=1 or USE_LUAJIT=0 juangh: 1 juangh: USE_LUAJIT=1 juangh: looking for information about how it affects the server... sfan5: unless you want to mess with compiling luajit *and* minetestserver the only advice I can give it to select smaller regions when using worldedit juangh: what is the best choice? juangh: mmmm ok ok juangh: i installed luajit now...it figure as if not been installed Emerald2: Yeah I was going to ask what size area you're worldediting. juangh: and, even if i don't use world edit, and i just want to give to the proccess more ram memory...can i give more? Conradish006: My server is currently having issues with the protections MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add node particles when leafdecay removes a node (#2686) 1384da00a https://git.io/JfV6h (152020-05-25T13:56:23Z) Conradish006: It allows players to still break protected areas Conradish006: And I've there has been a ton of griefing since it happened PGimeno: juangh: LuaJIT can't use more than 2MB (1MB in Linux 64 bits) Conradish006: One player even melted down a reactor PGimeno: juangh: sorry, I mean LuaJIT 2.0 Conradish006: Anybody know what the issue could be? Conradish006: I use the protection mod for BlockySurvival Conradish006: Same one that Vanessa uses juangh: PGimeno: mmmm, i understand... sfan5: PGimeno: I think you mean GB ;) PGimeno: juangh: LuaJIT 2.1 with GC64 can use more, but that needs a custom compilation PGimeno: and yes, I mean GB sorry :) juangh: PGimeno: let me ask you: i have a few instance (diferents worlds) in the same server, its are running, but, i don't know if i could may it work better... juangh: Yes yes, i undestand about MB and GB ;-) juangh: now i have two scripts, one to kill the proccess filtering by the port, and then starting it again...i'm thinking to make a kind of web interface to let others do that nephele: Conradish006, it's possible that some you have overwrites blocks without checking protection nephele: mod* Conradish006: I'll check Conradish006: Thanks! PGimeno: juangh: if there's a question, I don't know what it is :) juangh: PGimeno: That's right! :D juangh: PGimeno: I ask if there is other way to be running multiples instance (worlds) in the same server...just that. juangh: Now i'm using the same recommendation that is in the official docs... bavariaball: why i cant join servers bavariaball: i mean it says connecting to the server PGimeno: juangh: what's the OS of the server? bavariaball: but im waiting for like a 10 minutes bavariaball: idk i just joined one from the server list juangh: Ubuntu Server (Focal) sfan5: bavariaball: firewall? security software? juangh: PGimeno: Ubuntu Server (Focal) bavariaball: nope bavariaball: i have endless OS bavariaball: and minetest is automatically downloaded rubenwardy: *googles Minecraft* rubenwardy: *endless OS: we've automatically downloaded Minetest for you* Conradish006: Frickin internet keeps disconnecting me Conradish006: I hate my ISP PGimeno: juangh: all I can give you is advice for finding the process ID of the server, e.g. if the server is executed with bash, doing: 'minetestserver & ; minetest_pid=$!' gets you the process id so you can be sure it's the one you executed bavariaball: can someone give me an endless os server? sfan5: you can run a server from the main menu Conradish006: I suggest using the server client tho sfan5: either way since endless OS seems to be Linux based maybe there are more conventional ways of installing Minetest Conradish006: Be it from Windows or Ubuntu nephele: another ostree distro i see PGimeno: sfan5: would you consider this patch? https://notabug.org/pgimeno/minetest-worldedit/pulls/1 sfan5: the line endings have bothered me for a while but having a huge diff to change them was something I decided against in the past sfan5: the .gitattributes file might be useful though (doesn't git understand text vs binary by default?) PGimeno: sfan5: yes but it leaves the LFs untouched. You can create a local .gitattributes with these contents and normalize yourself. PGimeno: it leaves the Line endings* untouches PGimeno: you can normalize yourself without having a .gitattributes file in the repo, you just create it locally and use it to normalize sfan5: hm PGimeno: I think it's easy to review in GH by checking the diff without space changes or something like that juangh: PGimeno: I'm reading all the information about server. Yes, i made two scripts, one to start and other to kill the proccess...using "pkill -f port" PGimeno: juangh: works too, I guess PGimeno: I'm just a bit nervous that -f might match the wrong thing juangh: PGimeno: to release that responsability to others, i will make a kind of "dashboard" with a single button and proccess checker...if it is up, green and nothing to do, if it is down the color is red, then one button to run the scripts...that is the idea juangh: PGimeno: something really simple, but working juangh: thanks a lot to sfan5 and PGimeno...i will try to make somethink simple and share this idea using github... fruitsnack: haha, just went to see what's endless OS and they have minetest on their front page, under content section fruitsnack: A screenshot from it as a thumbnail for "games" Conradish00643: I swear to god! I'm gonna switch to AT&T PGimeno: sfan5: the advantage of having .gitattributes is that it helps with future additions from a Windows system PGimeno: without a .gitattributes, EOL is committed verbatim; with it, it's translated to LF on commit and, on windows, to CRLF on checkout Conradish00643: Could someone please kick @Conradish006 so I can log back in? PGimeno: *.png was not really necessary nephele: aslong as you don't switch to deutsche telekom :D PGimeno: sfan5: does keep_loaded https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/blob/master/worldedit/common.lua#L48 - rely on the garbage collector not clearing the 'manip' local? PGimeno: if so, I suggest this patch: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/minetest-worldedit/commit/afe56032bbee7507e265e1e91cc616c2224b0074 sfan5: I think the intention there is just to load the map once and hope it doesn't get unloaded sfan5: not sure if the vmanips even make use of the garbage collector PGimeno: oh so the engine does not ensure it's loaded for as long as the object exists? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Silence GCC warning in mapblock_mesh 135311a27 https://git.io/JfV9j (152020-05-25T17:10:23Z) sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/lua_api/l_vmanip.cpp#L396 sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/map.h#L466 sfan5: PGimeno: ^ yes, seems like it doesn't do that at all PGimeno: does that mean that a block can be unloaded while it's manipulated? ew PGimeno: thanks sfan5: sure, but it's not like that would matter since the vmanip stores a copy sfan5: when you call read_from_map that is PGimeno: oh! and when you save to a block that is unloaded, is it reloaded in order to modify it? PGimeno: if so, then everything's good sfan5: hm actually it keeps a copy of every block, so it doesn't need to reload them sfan5: but essentially yes PGimeno: ok, all good then, sorry sfan5: will add a comment to the worldedit.keep_loaded implementation though sfan5: because this isn't obvious at all PGimeno: thanks PGimeno: juangh: still there? I think you can try this mod: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/ffi_accel MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-24 20:56 UTC Hilarious! xD https://youtu.be/DpSIV648DaI?t=7748 oil_boi: texmex, hahaha, yes, the boat on top of tnt on top of a pig riding a spider has a 0.002% chance to spawn :P luvo: hahaha MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: L-System trees: Remove hardcoded use of 'mapgen_dirt' alias (#9931) 13b546e89 https://git.io/JfVFS (152020-05-25T20:11:57Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rename “Minimal development test” to “Development Test” (#9928) 13083b285 https://git.io/JfVhI (152020-05-25T22:17:52Z) PGimeno: hm, should I say goodbye forever to my "minimal" worlds? sfan5: they haven't worked since yesterday already PGimeno: I guess I can make some tweaks to add the game with another name and rename the world's game or something rubenwardy: you can grab the last version from git PGimeno: yeah, we'll see how the renaming affects it... any ideas on stuff that I should adjust after renaming the game, apart from the name in world.mt? rubenwardy: most of the node names have changed rubenwardy: it's a completely new test game PGimeno: sorry, what I'm doing is copying the old 'minimal' (pre-9450) with another name, so that I can go back and forth in git history without getting conflicts rubenwardy: oh right rubenwardy: yeah, that's a good idea PGimeno: so, after renaming minimal to minidev (which I did) and adjusting world.mt for the worlds (which I did), anything else that comes to mind that needs adjusting? PGimeno: well, it says "All test pass" on current master, so it seems it's all good rubenwardy: that should work rschulman: Is there a way to make some parts of a mesh type node transparent or semi-transparent? NathanS21: Use an alpha texture. NathanS21: For partial transparency you need to set something in the nodedef NathanS21: use_alpha_texture = true rschulman: Does anyone know how to charge up elepower's Electric Hand Drill? rschulman: I can't seem to find instructions anywhere. lmat: It now takes like 15 minutes to ride my cart down to the deep part of the mine... oil_boi: I take like a month posting on the forums and it's chaos woooo leo_rockway: oil_boi: dude, every time I git pull there's something new. Do you even sleep? oil_boi: Oh I do, I take 20 minute breaks every hour as well :D leo_rockway: :D leo_rockway: those spiders are something else now. Pretty challenging. They run like crazy. I like it. oil_boi: Thanks! Just wait until they can climb walls, castles are gonna need to have to be designed very carefully hahaha leo_rockway: oil_boi: I noticed in a video that it snows in a desert biome. Per biome weather is not implemented then, correct? oil_boi: leo_rockway, Not yet leo_rockway: oil_boi: a suggestion: maybe snowmen should drop carrots in the future. oil_boi: Ooo that's a good idea oil_boi: Logged it leo_rockway: :D oil_boi: How does one have non-free content in a gpl engine?? leo_rockway: oil_boi: I see that smelting ores now gives you XP, but mining iron still gives you XP as well. oil_boi: leo_rockway, oops oil_boi: I'll have to fix it tomorrow MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: lua_api.txt: Fix minor typo (#9917) 138ee2ece https://git.io/JfaQf (152020-05-24T09:48:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix two bugs in content_cao 13f51cf7c https://git.io/JfaQt (152020-05-24T09:48:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix constant re-queueing of emerges that will always be unsuccessful 135430770 https://git.io/JfaQq (152020-05-24T09:48:33Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix documentation of emergequeue_limit settings 13a9d6be8 https://git.io/JfaQm (152020-05-24T09:48:33Z) Emerald2: Woot! Emerald2: Nice work sfan5 :D Emerald2: All the devs do a good job. I'm just not usually watching. XD Ravise: Hi (it's me again), is the chat-related part of CSM api ill-designed for purpose? nephele: could you elaborate why you think so? Ravise: There is no way (using minetest's api only) to pass message through arbitrary number of filters - first filter that "fires" is blocking all of the filters after it nephele: I don't understand that requirement..? if you want to change the string just pass it along through functions? Ravise: Suppose we have independent mods on client side: timestamp_chat and chat_coloring Ravise: With using only minetest's api, there is no way to have the message colored AND timestamped nephele: that's not true, i can most definetely make you messages that are colorized and timestamped Ravise: Either timestamp calls minetest.display_chat_message first, having the message bypass chat_coloring filter or vice versa Ravise: You can make both by making one monolith mod, true, but I see no way to connect two independent mods from independent authors nephele: I don't see what the problem is with this Ravise: Hang on a sec, I'll draw a diagram, the text might be hard to understand Ravise: https://imgup.cz/image/kLto nephele: I don't see the problem, if it did reacht the second one you would have two messages in the chat, one formatted with timestamp and the other colorized nephele: you clearly need to do something later to process the message afterwards, this is not designed to be a filter (and on a filter ordering is important too for the result to be consistent) nephele: If you want a filtering api make one in lua? I don't see a point in specialcasing one part of the lua csm api to behave like that nephele: if the second callback does not get called that i would consider a bug though Ravise: I expected the api to expect modders would like to cooperate :| Ravise: Something like "msg" -> filter one -> returns modified msg -> filter two -> ... nephele: this has nothing to do with cooperation, the usecase you have is only a tiny one, it makes no sense to make it overly complex to optimize it for that usecase when you could have written a generic api for lua to do this in 10 to 20 minutes ;) anyway this is just my opinion :P nephele: you can already do that nephele: just call the second csm from the first one nephele: with your modified message Ravise: That would sort of defeat the point of totally independent mods, though nephele: that doesn't need any special ordering support at all nephele: i don't see why, mod compatibility is not something you get for free, you have to work for it Ravise: Of course, a "specialised" chat handling library could be written, but a] it's not minetest's api, thus fractioning and incompatibility is likely to happen, b] the minetest's api is designed "by implementers", not "for users" nephele: you can't change every api to hopefully have every usecase Ravise: If chat handling on csm-api side would be implemented differently, compatibility would be way cheaper though nephele: the "api" is just calling the second function with the first function nephele: if you want you can overwrite the on chat handelere thingy that calls functions to behave like you wish and make both mods depend on it nephele: but that seems much harder than changing one line of code Ravise: In other words, the chat-related csm api is ill-designed for purpose, thank you... nephele: i didn't design it nephele: and your assertion still makes no sense nephele: it's not ill designed just because it doesn't cover every hypotehtical use case Ravise: I think we won't move the discussino any further, so with all due respect, let's stop before we start to get angirer :) rubenwardy: Minetest's callback model tends to not be very well thought out, sorry rubenwardy: on the server side, doing things like you suggest would be done using `minetest.format_chat_message` rubenwardy: but there's not client equivalent Ravise: As I'm a player, not server admin, I'd like things to be solved on client-side as much as possible, to be independent on benevolence of server admins not/installing server mods for my convenience :) Ravise: It seems my best option is csm lib providing "chaining" api built on top of basic minetest's and calling other chat csm modders to adopt it? Krock: how should a chat-format-modifier pipeline look like? Krock: or in your terms "chaining" blaise: lol sfan5: probably like format_chat_message but on the client side rubenwardy: (pipeline is the correct term) Krock: but format_chat_message can only be overwritten once? blaise: i've seem so many chat <--> irc mod's blaise: holey moley hoodedice: minetest.get_chat_message():uppercase():grammarize():remove_excess_exclamation_marks() Ravise: I'd imagine callbacks to have signature function(msg) --do something witht the msg; return msg; end Ravise: Of course, it require callbacks to be "sane", like, not returning "" blaise: I like the ones that introduce ansi color codes... they're super nice sfan5: Krock: but you can chain those Krock: Ravise: so one callback would provide the args for the next run callback? Ravise: And minetest's core looping over the lists of callbackcs, like this (suppose the msg is alredy filled with the message) Krock: sfan5: perhaps chaining the format string would be an approach? Ravise: for cb in callbacks; msg = cb(msg); end; return msg Ravise: While we are at this, it would be best to provide some metadata right with the message (e.g. the type, author etc.) but I understand that would most probably require breaking change in protocol Krock: no it wouldn't hoodedice: minetest should have RFCs :^) Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7521 Krock: table format without protocol bump nephele: hoodedice, request for comments? :D hoodedice: :^) Ravise: Krock: I don't see inside the minetest core, I just like to use the api :) And as the message is given as string in the api, I expected it's expected to send the message as string Ravise: Not having to guess metadata from message string format would be nice, IMO rubenwardy: I'd forgotten that chat_send_all supports this Krock: you'd be given author, message, time and format string. I think it would make sense to do conditional overwrites of the format string only (or abort sending if that's wanted) Ravise: Having the message type (e.g. /msg, /me, general say etc.) would be nice too, but preparating that from format string shouldn't be too much trouble Ravise: And of course, the message text must be editable as well :) rubenwardy: a chat command use is a normal message that begins with "/" rubenwardy: you won't receive that though rubenwardy: as the server will swallow it Ravise: Those messages do have fixed structure, and since we'll have access to the format string, and since only the message type is to be guessed, the REs should be short enough not to cause mass confusion MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Add chat_font_size setting (#9736) 13a9b74f4 https://git.io/JfaFk (152020-05-24T12:24:13Z) luvo: henlo! Is it possible to call the on_use function of a given hoe? having the itemstack Krock: itemstack:get_definition().on_use(...) luvo: get_definition, that's the key! thanks Krock Krock: probably Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! luvo: I trued itemstack:on_use but didn't work Krock: true bdju: are the versions of mods in the client's mod downloader older than versions elsewhere? is it worth git cloning dfcaverns? Krock: sometimes yes. Automatic updates have to be authorized first nephele: i think that depends on the mod nephele: develop branches arent on contentdb usually? Krock: so that ContentDB can update using the git repository's push messages (or whatever) Krock: nephele: barely a mod has develop branches nephele: huh? nephele: i would think anything that isn't tagged a release or on a release branch is a develop branch Krock: all changes happen in master, and a commit is tagged as soon the author feels like it nephele: then the not-tagged stuff is develop branch :) Krock: or not tagged at all, which is then a rolling release Krock: develop branch == master branch Krock: bdju: if you want to be 100% sure that you've got the newest update, yes. nephele: Hmm, maybe i should work a bit on orion and make a tag thingy and ask to be put on contentdb... MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add engine version string to ContentDB API request (#9890) 13b3c7990 https://git.io/JfaN4 (152020-05-24T13:46:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Replacement for Minimal Development Test (PR) (#9450) 136456aba https://git.io/JfaNB (152020-05-24T13:46:26Z) bdju: Krock: thanks for the info bdju: does anyone know why dfcaverns from the contentdb comes with broken configs? it keeps saying various files have invalid booleans. I went and commented out the lines in several, but then it came up with more and I was losing motivation Krock: what kind of errors? bdju: stuff like this: 09:13:37 < rekado> bah, looks like GHC really does need to have a reference on GCC, because it tries to use its record of the build-time GCC when packages run “cabal configure”. bdju: 09:13:48 < rekado> annoying that it won’t take GCC from the environment bdju: ugh sorry, clipboard troubles- bdju: 2020-05-24 09:13:58: ERROR[Main]: Invalid boolean setting in /home/brad/.minetest/mods/dfcaverns/df_caverns/settingtypes.txt "dfcaverns_underworld_hud_requires_item (Require an item to view waypoints) bool true bdju: " bdju: many similar lines like this, all dfcaverns, but not all in the same directory within its directory. so then I was hopping around in vim opening settingtypes.txt of various dirs and commenting out lines it complained about nephele: Is it new that minetest.debug messages appear in chat? sfan5: depends on your settings luvo: I'm a bit confused. If the hoe_wood definitions sets the max_uses attribute, how can it be nil when I access it on the on_use callback? luvo: I'm sure I'm missing something luvo: in the register of the hoe, if max_uses is nil it defines it at 30 luvo: the definition is here https://git.io/Jfapq sfan5: the def table isn't copied so someone can mess with it afterwards in theory luvo: but i have default and farming as the only dependency, so no change should have been madee right? luvo: oh you mean luvo: that itemstack doesn't have the hoe max_uses for example luvo: right? luvo: or what luvo: and if no deftable is copied, how can I access the max_uses of the wooden hoe for example? sfan5: farming.hoe_on_use gets the value of uses luvo: exactly sfan5: from outside there isn't any other way, since the "def" table is never saved luvo: mmm luvo: so no way for me to redefine the on_use of any hoe right? luvo: because I'll need max_uses if I want to reuse hoe_on_use sfan5: correct luvo: oh.. luvo: allright thx sfan5: uh actually luvo: :D sfan5: you can redefine farming.hoe_on_use, it gets the max_uses as parameter luvo: mmmm luvo: But I want to reuse the farmin.hoe_on_use logic, just do something after that function all on the on_use function sfan5: you can keep the old function around and call it before doing anything luvo: so it will be:\n new_itemstack = farming.hoe_on_use(blablabla)\n some stuff\n return new_itemstack luvo: yeah, thats what I do, but for me to call hoe_on_use I have to pass the mas_uses luvo: well luvo: you mean to just redefine farming.hoe_on_use and not override_item("farming:hoe_wood"? luvo: so hoe_wood item will use my redefined method? sfan5: yes luvo: allright! luvo: thx sfan5: luvo: http://sprunge.us/hXTe2P?lua luvo: wow, didn't realized about that, I just copied the entire function luvo: thanks again sfan5 luvo: :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build on FreeBSD, broken since open_url 13212a112 https://git.io/Jfaht (152020-05-24T14:31:06Z) nephele: Is there any way to add like... friction to items? nephele: currently they just slide along the bottom infinitely :D nephele: heh, had a comment about returning nil somewhere crashing minetest, now removing that it's not the case anymore :3 ANAND: nephele: Add negative acceleration along the X and Z axes? ANAND: Wrongly worded, sorry ANAND: Add accelaration acting against the movement dir, is what I meant nephele: that would then basically be a timer on each object i think? nephele: I would prefer not having to do that, friction seems rather important to have for physics interactions nephele: although i can use that solution for now if nothing else is available nephele: ANAND: ah, i misunderstood you, maybe.. i'll try that nephele: Heh, that almost works nephele: the item does slow down indeed nephele: but then it speeds up and flies of in the other direction :D ANAND: lol ANAND: Basic physics for physical entities engine-side would be good to have indeed. :) nephele: i suppose i'll have to forcibly slow it down in lua for now nephele: i do want to be able to throw items, not a fan of those floating rotating nodes :D nephele: also have a much much higher item limit per node and infinite timeout so one can "safely" place em in the worls nephele: would be neat if the game loaded items earlier, but that is just a bit of a nitpick ANAND: How much earlier? Objects are already sent to the client immediately upon connection. nephele: yeah but it takes a couple of seconds before they appear in the world nephele: so graphically its a bit you spawn in, but then it takes a bit for items to appear nephele: can also run where items will appear to be in those items :D ANAND: Ahh who0: Hi Guys, do you know if there is a mods to expose metrics for prometheus. (I found one it needs to push data to a gateway) ANAND: I presume that's an issue with entity loading itself. nephele: maybe, i never investigated :) rubenwardy: who0: there will be built-in support for Prometheus in 5.3 luvo: Is there anyway of interacting with a running server with the lua api? luvo: for example, to use minetest.get_connected_players() luvo: I know there is a --terminal option, but that is only for using the in-game commands, right? not for scripting appguru: luvo: you could use WorldEdit's //lua if you want to execute code Krock: also lua formspec in the inventory if that still exists Krock: from worldedit_gui texmex: !tell oil_boi: hilarious xD https://youtu.be/DpSIV648DaI?t=7748 MinetestBot: texmex: Do not put an : at the end of nickname texmex: !tell oil_boi Hilarious! xD https://youtu.be/DpSIV648DaI?t=7748 MinetestBot: texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around luvo: thanks guys! Hawk777: If I connect to an unlisted server by address and port number, when I go back to the server list, it’s shown at the top with a gold star beside it. If I connect to a second unlisted server, the first one disappears. How do I make the server list keep two favourite unlisted servers? Hawk777: My serverlist/favoriteservers.txt file actually has both listed, but I only see one of them in the GUI. sfan5: that's a bug, please report it Hawk777: So… the intent is that both should be added to favoriteservers.txt (as they are) and both should show up? Each one is under a [server] section in the file; is that the intended file structure? Hawk777: favoriteservers.txt doesn’t appear to be documented on either wiki. sfan5: yes Hawk777: Huh, it appears to possibly be linked to the fact that you also can’t seem to give names to unlisted servers. Hawk777: I manually gave them names, and now both show up. Is the bug actually that you can’t give them names? Hawk777: (manually by editing the file) Hawk777: Or is manually naming unlisted servers more of a feature request, and two unnamed servers are supposed to both show up and that’s the bug? sfan5: I don't think you're supposed to be able to name them Hawk777: OK, in that case I’ll file “being able to name them” as a feature request (since that’s not intended to be possible right now) and “not showing more than one” as a bug. Hawk777: Thanks! epoch: (minetest segfaults when attempting to use a remote X server) Emerald2: I have that problem too, Hawk777, but it behaves inconsistently. Hawk777: Well, I filed the bug and feature request in question. Hawk777: And for now I have my workaround, naming them by editing the file by hand. Emerald2: Nice. I was too slack. :) Emerald2: Now I just need to catch my 'client hangs when server crashes or is shutdown, only some of the time' bug with a backtrace. guzzi: how deep do people usually dig? guzzi: it looks like minetest goes pretty deep nephele: it goes very deep VanessaE: it goes down more than 31km below sea level guzzi: yeah. i have gone down about 500. i have mesacons mod. just looking for those i guess guzzi: the pipe mod looks fun too VanessaE: I think mese starts below 1000m guzzi: I got kinda bored of minecraft. so i came back LoneWolfHT: If you get bored of MTG try Nodecore VanessaE: bah, all you need it mtg + Dreambuilder ;) guzzi: dreambuilder? guzzi: nodecore? huh VanessaE: Dreambuilder is a massive modpack that I maintain, comprised of lots and lots of popular mods :) guzzi: oh damn that looks sick guzzi: i am going to boot it up VanessaE: enjoy :) guzzi: awe sick textures EvergreenTree: guzzi: do give nodecore a go if you want, it is a lot of fun and quite a change of pace from normal minetest/craft style gameplay EvergreenTree: also, while dreambuilder is very cool (I play it a lot), it is certainly not the only minetest game worth worth checking out MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-22 15:39 UTC I like the format of the current videos. Always new features presented, it’s like small gifts each video. leo_rockway: greetings, minetesters. leo_rockway: oil_boi: hey, spiders attack during the day. Is that intentional? oil_boi: leo_rockway, Oh I'll fix that now leo_rockway: oil_boi: It makes surviving the first night a lot harder, that's for sure ;-) leo_rockway: surviving before the first night, that is. oil_boi: Oof and I just finished putting it in oil_boi: I dunno I'm just going to throw this on here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9873#issuecomment-632972474 oil_boi: This stops mobs from being an absolute disaster when you have a farm, yet still keeping in a less annoying form of collision correction oil_boi: A*_noprefetc vs A*? oil_boi: prefetch** Emerald2: Woohoo got to gdb the segfault. https://pastebin.com/zYdRtVEM guzzi: evergreentree, checking it out now Emerald2: I'm running 5.2.0 from the Ubuntu ppa so not sure why I'm getting this crash. Emerald2: New NodeCore server does it reliably tho. EvergreenTree: Just a warning about nodecore, there is minimal instruction and you are expected to figure things out on your own guzzi: np Emerald2: Yeah I know. I played it before. Got really stuck on some stuff tho. XD EvergreenTree: I would say it's sort of comparable to how old DOS point and click adventure games (not in gameplay but in how you're expected to figure things out) EvergreenTree: s/how// oil_boi: Also thanks texmex guzzi: evergreentree , latest master just crashes on me EvergreenTree: Weird. I haven't updated in a bit so it still works for me EvergreenTree: I need to go to bed, but I will try to see what's wrong tomorrow guzzi: anyone ever have the last 3 rows of inventory disapear on them? guzzi: ah i see what the issue is guzzi: wierd they are like greyed out now guzzi: seems like loading nodecore changed my inventory storage somehow Emerald2: NodeCore only has 2 rows of inventory. Emerald2: Wait I mean 1. guzzi: oh. i removed the nc_ mod folders. Emerald2: Good typing me. guzzi: how do i get them back? Emerald2: It should only effect you when playing NodeCore tho. Emerald2: I gotta go do something rn so be back in 5ish. guzzi: np guzzi: ah yeah i am going to have to purge the sql db i think guzzi: how do i reset my world? Emerald2: Did you set the world up as a nodecore world? guzzi: all i did was do a git clone of your master branch and activate all the mods Emerald2: Master branch of what? guzzi: https://gitlab.com/sztest/nodecore Emerald2: Lemme see if I can get Warr in here. He's the dev. guzzi: nah it isn't a big deal. Emerald2: You can get NodeCore from CDB, too. Should be basically the same. Emerald2: I'd just make a new world, honestly. WarrIRC: nodecore is a game, not a mod or modpack WarrIRC: so you don't "activate all mods" WarrIRC: you have to clone it into games, not into mods WarrIRC: if you try to play nodecore and MTG at the same time then I have no idea what will happen, but it probably won't be good guzzi: oh guzzi: yeah it was bad. WarrIRC: CDB would install it in the right place for you if you use the in-game CDB browser guzzi: i have a headless server. thus the confusion * Emerald2: returns to looking for food. Brain isn't working. WarrIRC: hmm, I'd have expected MT not to let you just enable mods that are inside a mods/ subdir like they are in a game ... unless they added recursive search to modpack loading or something WarrIRC: The version that's on CDB tracks very closely with what's in git master, so pulling from git master is fine too guzzi: i moved them guzzi: i am dumb guzzi: ok thanks WarrIrc. Let me blow away this .minetest folder, clone into games and try again tomorrow guzzi: afk WarrIRC: heh, nodecore was intended to be brain exercise, but not the installation parts :-) WarrIRC: If you run into more questions, you can find help in #nodecore. I'm usually only on IRC via the Discord bridge though. oil_boi: texmex, https://youtu.be/l2i6cA1nPJo oil_boi: Oh yeah oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: Crafter - Mob Pathfinding Prototype 1 - YouTube liljnc3: hey freelikegnu: yo liljnc3: hows it going freelikegnu: ... Emerald2: Segfaults. Segfaults everywhere. freelikegnu: and not a drop to drink Emerald2: ANAND: it's #nodecore ANAND: That's the game's channel Emerald2: Isn't that what you wanted? XD Emerald2: I guess the new server got a new channel too. He just made it yesterday. XD Emerald2: What's the verdict, ANAND? ANAND: Dunno, I just found out the line that causes the segfault - Krock said he'll do further testing in minimal. deltanedas: is there a way to run a nodes function when a node is placed/broken next to it? deltanedas: i want to dis/connect nodes from a network when cable is broken/placed ANAND: deltanedas: You could access the nearby nodes using the dug node's on_dig callback deltanedas: wow im stupid deltanedas: is there an array of directions somewhere or do i have to define it myself ANAND: Array of directions? ANAND: Get the dug node's pos, add and remove 1 from each of the coordinate to get 6 coords corresponding to the touching nodes deltanedas: {{x = -1, y = 0, z = 0}, ...} deltanedas: it seems like thats a very common thing MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Awkor -> 03minetest/minetest: Modernize include guards and add missing ones (#9898) 13037422f https://git.io/JfaGT (152020-05-23T11:23:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sorcerykid -> 03minetest/minetest: Add on_authplayer callback and a last_login parameter to on_joinplaye… 13a976b7f https://git.io/JfaGt (152020-05-23T11:24:06Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sorcerykid -> 03minetest/minetest: Add on_authplayer callback and 'last_login' to on_joinplayer (#9574) 1315ba75e https://git.io/JfaGc (152020-05-23T11:25:29Z) _Zaizen_: Hy everyone I would like to know if there's a way to know the position of a node i've found with raycast. I can't find the appropriate method, maybe it's just that it has a strange name NetherEran: raycast:next() gives you a pointed_thing _Zaizen_: Yup but I need to know th e position of that node. nephele: core.raycast? local node = raycast:next() , and then node["under"] NetherEran: ^ Krock: est31: who has access to f-droid? I thought you redirected me to nerzhul last time https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9839#issuecomment-633032868 ? _Zaizen_: Thanks everyone nephele: node is a table you can print with minetest.debug(dump2(node)) too to see the full format Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! est31: hi Krock Krock: o/ est31 est31: Fdroid maintainers have est31: (access) Krock: does this need a correction? https://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest#Build_and_Publish_Android_APK Krock: Sounds like we should go to #froid directly Krock: * #fdroid without the typo Krock: ^ est31 ? yrungr: i wonder if you can build minetest for your own phone. yrungr: the minetest in the android store is broken. Krock: yes yrungr: cool. Krock: though I don't know what build setup you need to get it working blaise: arm crossdev toolchain, or a binmisc qemu chroot yrungr: interesting. Krock: yrungr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2lspXOXNGQ <-- you now blaise: lol Krock: (the AMV that uses the song is quite good btw) yrungr: weird, youtube seems broken. the page loads, but videos are not loading. Emerald2: Is there a way to change the 'player joined the game' and 'player left the game' messages? Calinou: they're defined in builtin/ Lua Calinou: so yes, but they're defined server-side Calinou: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/misc.lua#L45 Emerald2: Cheers Calinou. Had somebody on discord asking but the people in the know are sleeping. :) Emerald2: Could a server owner change them, or no? blaise: there is a minetest discord server? blaise: :o Emerald2: Technically unofficial. Got a buncha new people when the forums were down, because C55 put a link there. olliy: mmhmm nephele: i think overiding minetest.send_leave_message would be sufficient? blaise: surprise Emerald2: Hey Krock. Warr is wondering what you meant about a chest and getting a player hand. appguru: "i think overiding minetest.send_leave_message would be sufficient?" appguru: and minetest.send_join_message, probably Krock: Emerald2: the "hand" slot item can be swapped with node inventories Krock: though that might be a MT issue that callbacks aren't triggered appguru: Is someone working on a fix already? appguru: I might be interested in having a try. luvo: evening veryone! Krock: still afternoon luvo: right haha luvo: is there anyway of getting more info about the "Collision info missing, this is caused by an out-of-date/buggy mod or game" error? luvo: like, what mod? or the only way is uninstalling and installing one by one? sfan5: look at the backtrace guzzi: nodecore is sick guzzi: dreambuilder too guzzi: not sure which my daughter will like better, but I am exited to try both. guzzi: i setup a world for each. not sure if my little vm can handle both at once but we will see. deltasquared: just noticed a 'indexing a nil value' crash in a (possibly older) mod and I noticed it's using self.object:getvelocity() in it's on_step() callback, whereas the lua api documents :get_velocity(). is this a deprecated typo, and if so was it recently changed to return nil at all? from my reading of the line and debugging the entity's self table at the time of the crash, I can't seem to tell what else would be causing it. deltasquared: for reference, this is blockmen's pyramids mod, and the offending line is: self.object:setvelocity({ x=self.direction.x*mummy_chillaxin_speed, y=self.object:getvelocity().y, z=self.direction.z*mummy_chillaxin_speed }) deltasquared: (a tad redundant with the number of calls, but looks otherwise legit, so not sure what's going on here.) sfan5: getvelocity is the same as get_velocity just an old name sfan5: !mod pyramids MinetestBot: sfan5: Pyramids [pyramids] by BlockMen - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7063 - https://github.com/BlockMen/pyramids deltasquared: right. I've gotten the error te reliably trigger currently (and yes I've pulled latest), so I'll try adding some asserts. deltasquared: the adformentioned line is line 294. deltasquared: in mummy.lua deltasquared: in case anyone wants to try and beat me to it ;) sfan5: https://github.com/BlockMen/pyramids/blob/master/mummy.lua#L207 sfan5: it should return after removing here deltasquared: ... well shoot, I plain skipped over that deltasquared: the mummy is trapped in lava too, that would explain it deltasquared: (and it'd explain why returning nil. ok, I'll try that just to make sure deltasquared: but that does seem likely deltasquared: gah. the entity died in lava before I could confirm it, but I'm putting that in anyway. deltasquared: thanks for the help sfan5 sfan5: you're welcome SwissalpS: I coloured a homedecor:glowlight_quarter_14, placed it, rotated it a couple times with screw driver; dug it and -> boom server crashed sfan5: probably already fixed in 5.3.0-dev SwissalpS: tx, server is on 5.2 still luvo: Hey, I'm trying to build a server with the --terminal capability luvo: but when I compile with `cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DBUILD_CLIENT=0 -DBUILD_SERVER=1 -DBUILD_UNITTESTS=0 -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DENABLE_CURSES=ON`, it keeps saying: -- Could NOT find Curses (missing: CURSES_LIBRARY CURSES_INCLUDE_PATH) \n -- ncurses not found! even though I have all these packages installed: libncurses6:amd64, libncursesw6:amd64, ncurses-base, ncurses-bin, ncurses-term luvo: Any idea? luvo: I checked the necessary packages for building from source and in the Debian/Ubuntu command, doesn't appear nothing about curses. In fedora/arch it does sfan5: what about the -dev package? luvo: I tried, but no -dev packages for libncurses6/w6 are found luvo: maybe try 5/w5 versions? luvo: yep, that's it. With ncurses 5 it works luvo: `libncurses5-dev` and `libncursesw5-dev` deltasquared: I'll have to remember that one myself. sfan5: you reeally just need libncurses-dev deltasquared: the ubuntu package is a bit stale, so I've had to build mine locally. sfan5: whether that's ncurses 5 or 6 doesn't matter I'd say deltasquared: (and no, the snap does NOT count.) luvo: oh I see luvo: should I create an issue for the package to install in the ubuntu commandline? luvo_: So I'm using the signs_lib with street_signs mods in my server. I checked the signs_lib forum post and found about the ISO-8859-1 support suggested in 2016. I tried the mod but could not display the ñ (using _ instead). Any idea how you work it? cc/ VanessaE guzzi: how do i reset my world database? guzzi: i copied an existing world and changed the game to nodecraft. The intial area now says unknown everywhere. guzzi: I just want to reset it guzzi: I am using a headless server sfan5: rm map.sqlite guzzi: ok cool thanks rschulman: Is node_io still being worked on? The github repo hasn't seen any action in 2 years. rschulman: Could just be that its done, though. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Optimize particlespawner sending by not sending to distant players 1310c3002 https://git.io/Jfa21 (152020-05-23T20:52:21Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement spawning particles with node texture appearance 139d6e7e4 https://git.io/Jfa2M (152020-05-23T20:52:21Z) oil_boi: :O :O :O :O :O That is so cool! Now we can have awesome effects! Thanks sfan5 sfan5: you're welcome oil_boi: Does the distant player's particle spawner optimization have a fixed radius? sfan5: it uses max_block_send_distance to devide sfan5: decide* luvo_: Is there anyway of changing the username I have on a public server? sfan5: ask the server admin to do it, it is a manual process unfortunately luvo_: thx! appguru: not a good idea tbh appguru: the playername is used as an identifier everywhere - from protections to DMs to mail to whatever luvo_: mmm I see... oil_boi: Holy crap I can get around the node only particle restriction by creating a node of the food with register_food and create an ungettable node to work from :O nephele: oh hi oil_boi :) oil_boi: Hi nephele who0: Hi Guys, I've just update to 5.2.0 (I cannot open my previous world ... the error is : "Unknown node: doors:door_wood_b_1". Could you help me ? sfan5: might be a bug with one of your mods appguru: this is probably related to the get_content_id change appguru: you now have to call it after the nodes have been registered iirc nephele: huh? i've never used that call :g and am on 5.3-dev who0: It seems to be reltaive to "mods/handle_schematics/init.lua" who0: (just remove this mod and it works) sfan5: oil_boi: better yet you can register a node where each of the 6 sides is a different food :D oil_boi: A physical texture index, I like it! appguru: Dynamic media loading would be nice oil_boi: Already taking advantage of it! https://youtu.be/-W4LoA-I0Uw oil_boi: Treecapitator has also been updated with it :D sfan5: cool guzzi: i have a world setup and I switched the creative to true. guzzi: I don't see the creative inventory though. guzzi: i do have dreambuilder mods on guzzi: I also just tried a fresh world with no mods guzzi: i am on 5.2 guzzi: minetest game guzzi: headless guzzi: i set it in the world file guzzi: i also see the setting in minetest.conf guzzi: hh guzzi: huh guzzi: ah ok. you HAVE to set it in the minetest.conf file guzzi: so i created a new one and set the --config switch guzzi: well wait. that didn't work guzzi: let me see if i messed up guzzi: oh i got it somehow guzzi: i had to click the chest in smart inventory MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Various documentation fixes in settingtypes.txt (#9910) 131bcdc2d https://git.io/Jf2Oo (152020-05-22T00:32:20Z) Blockah: wb nephele Blockah: Jdog, are you from New Zealand? Jdog: no lol Blockah: Never mind Jdog you just had the same nick as my mate lol nevermind Jdog: ah, sorry Blockah: Question everyone, I moved my 'World' to another Server it works fine, however the blocks I've placed from the old world, can't be deleted by me like wtf??? SX: Blockah different account and owned nodes, some protection mod preventing to do that, can be because of many things and cant really say for sure because it depends.. Blockah: We don't have a protection mod Blockah: As far as I'm aware? Blockah: Was only a stock install + 1 mod for weather Blockah: I also have the same nickname I had on the old server and new Blockah: So same name D 'owner' and no protection somehow = Protected cubes :S Blockah: Any check lists or guides? SX: maybe check privs if you've not doen that already and also try with protection_bypass https://wiki.minetest.net/Privileges cheapie: Blockah: You do have the "interact" priv, right? Blockah: cheapie, I can create and destroy just not my old blocks Blockah: I have all priv cheapie Blockah: I did /grant myname all cheapie: Do you get any messages when trying to dig them? Blockah: Nope cheapie: Are you using a suitable tool (or in creative mode)? Blockah: Oh Blockah: Creative mode I think is disabled Blockah: And have no tool Blockah: I think creative mode used to be on Blockah: Oh wait I'm not sure actually cheapie: Some things require a tool to dig outside of creative. Blockah: Ah Blockah: I'll turn on creative mode and see if it makes a difference cheapie: (like stone, for example) Blockah: Enabled creative mode Blockah: Still cant delete the block Blockah: Odd asf Blockah: That's so weird I can't delete the old blocks Blockah: I have all privs Blockah: There was no protection mod installed by me ever no mod ever * Blockah: looks into the protection bypass thingy Blockah: Invalid command protection_bypass Blockah: But it is under my list of Privileges Blockah: So I do have that privilege but still cant delete the blocks what the heck Blockah: ANAND, bro Blockah: Do you know why when I copied over my old world into my new minetest, it works, but it wont let me delete blocks made from the old server Blockah: I have all privs Blockah: Including bypass_protection Blockah: Creative mode is enabled Blockah: Just cant delete em Blockah: Well hope the design is good enough because some of my world has invincible unmove-able blocks lol Blockah: I guess the only bypass would be load the old world Blockah: And try load the mods into that one Blockah: Then again it would be me risking using a -dev version instead of -stable Blockah: So no one knows why when copying a World to another minetest installation ? the blocks become undelete-able ? SX: blocks wont become undeleteable but yes nobody knows without server config + user accounts Blockah: Well no one told me that would happen if I copied a world lol Blockah: Uhm I guess I have to go back to the old config and just hope it works Blockah: -dev branch here I come SX: you can try and see what happens if you run /deleteblocks here 6 SX: but that will delete mapblocks so it is not just single node or 6 nodes Blockah: What does that mean to do? Blockah: Mapblocks? That sounds dangerous Blockah: How many of these map blocks contain blocks? Blockah: And is 6 alot? SX: it is fairly large area deleted then mapgen fires and generates those again SX: 16x16x16 nodes in single mapblock Blockah: Yeah I can't risk that Blockah: It'd end up destroying near by creations Blockah: So how could I look at server config + user accounts ? Blockah: To try figure out how to solve the issue? SX: minetest.conf file and world.mt are two useful files to look at Blockah: minetest.conf has literally only had stuff all changed in it Blockah: Just the admins Blockah: With same name might I add, and a changed port Blockah: The world.mt is barely a few lines big too Blockah: Anything specific I could look for in said files? SX: then did you try to break nodes with pickaxe? Blockah: It won't be world.mt put it that way Blockah: How do I spawn pickaxe Blockah: Do I look for it in inventory? SX: something like /give yourname default:pick Blockah: Wow Blockah: It works now Blockah: I can delete the blocks with a Pick axe SX: I do remember that disabling and then re-eanbling creative could emerge some problems in a way that creative wont get enabled really Blockah: Amazing lol before I could delete anything without a Pick axe SX: you can try to /grantme creative Blockah: Creative mode is enabled SX: that might fix it but dont remember Blockah: And doesnt creative mode just give you unlimited blocks? SX: creative might be only partially enabled Blockah: I enabled it in world.mt SX: I do remember that I did have problems enabling it fully again after it was disabled for one server launch SX: disabling creative once did change something, dont remember what I had to do but probably /grant creative privilege, I've not used creative enough to know right away why or what did happen but something did happen when creative was disabled and enabled again Blockah: Fair enough Blockah: Thanks heaps Blockah: Also... SX: anyway, if you can use pickaxe but not hand to break blocks then creative is not fully enabled Blockah: Cheers Blockah: I've only got one other issue now Blockah: I want to load a modpack that I know works in Windows Blockah: But Linux does not seem to load it for example SX: might be path separators which is / for linux and \ for windows SX: might be anything else too... Blockah: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=629 Blockah: When you download said mod and extract it into /minetest/mods Blockah: The folder needs to be renamed because it has 2.5.0 in the folder name Blockah: Minetest wont read anything name wise with .'s in it Blockah: It'll error out saying we only accept [0-9][a-z] in the name Blockah: Now when I rename it to animals the folder Blockah: And tell the world in world.mt to load 'animals' Blockah: It says cannot find animals Blockah: And just ignores it Blockah: I'm like wtf SX: maybe there's mod.conf within that says different name SX: oh but so if it is modpack then actual mod names are subdirectory names Blockah: I don't understand Blockah: I also just did wget http://www.mediafire.com/download/8837o2995bqjxzt/animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip Blockah: I tried to unzip it like I normally do Blockah: And got an error saying Blockah: Archive: animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip Blockah: End-of-central-directory signature not found. Blockah: Either this file is not Blockah: a zipfile, or it constitutes one disk of a multi-part archive. In the Blockah: latter case the central directory and zipfile comment will be found on Blockah: the last disk(s) of this archive. Blockah: unzip: cannot find zipfile directory in one of animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip or Blockah: animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip.zip, and cannot find animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip.ZIP, period. Blockah: I'm pretty sure that isn't meant to happen lol SX: well maybe wget gives you html site... SX: maybe check your file Blockah: the file is a .zip Blockah: Looks perfect SX: that does not make it zip file if it has .zip in name.. Blockah: I'll just have to winscp it to linux Blockah: Well of course not but chances are that archive isn't broken Blockah: But server is telling me it is lol Blockah: I'll get my windows machine to extract it and then upload it that extracted version into the linux server SX: maybe tryto run at server console file animals*.zip SX: that will tell you actual file type, I bet it is mirror select page from mediafire Blockah: Ah Blockah: http://download1412.mediafire.com/1smyq50ei9gg/8837o2995bqjxzt/animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip Blockah: This was the needed link Blockah: This one workd Blockah: They just had put the wrong direct link in the article Blockah: So the mod is called: animals_modpack-2.5.0 Blockah: I can't load -2.5.0 Blockah: So I'll just rename it to animals_modpack Blockah: Does that sound ok? Blockah: Or where would I find in the mod folder what name it uses? Blockah: modpack.txt is empty Blockah: ls Blockah: adv_spawning animal_cow animal_fish_blue_white animal_resources barn mob_archer mobf_settings mob_npc mob_slime trap Blockah: animal_big_red animal_creeper animal_gull animal_sheep cooking mob_bear mob_ghost mob_oerkki mob_warthog Blockah: animal_chicken animal_deer animalmaterials animal_vombie description.txt mob_environments mob_guard mob_ostrich modpack.txt Blockah: animal_clownfish animal_dm animal_rat animal_wolf factions mobf mob_miner mob_shark README Blockah: Nothing in there looks like anything to be configured right? Blockah: The pwd = /minetest-stable-5/mods/animals_modpack-2.5.0 Blockah: So I'll rename it to just animals_modpack and try load that Blockah: It is now called animals_modpack Blockah: Time to update world.mt while the server is killed first Blockah: load_mod_animals_modpack = true is inside world.mt now Blockah: Please work God... Blockah: It's for my girlfriends birthday to place lil animals in there lol Blockah: 2020-05-22 05:51:20: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "animals_modpack" Blockah: 4Fail Blockah: 2:( Blockah: sherbet@localhost: mods$pwd Blockah: sherbet@localhost: mods$ls Blockah: animals_modpack animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip mods_here.txt weather Blockah: sherbet@localhost: mods$ Blockah: It's clearly there though Blockah: I'll post on their forum too, tell em it doesn't work... And I don't know what to name it Blockah: what is the mod name in the init.lua for the mod? Blockah: I'll try look Blockah: Oh it has no init.lua Blockah: weird ANAND: > Do you know why when I copied over my old world into my new minetest, it works, but it wont let me delete blocks made from the old server ANAND: Does it have the right permissions? Blockah: I had all privs Blockah: Pick axe cleared it up :) ANAND: No, map.sqlite, I meant Blockah: No idea Blockah: I just copied the worlds over :) Blockah: Literally the world folder from one mine test to another mine test on another server Blockah: For now my current problem is this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24776 Blockah: 2020-05-22 05:51:20: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "animals_modpack" Blockah: It's clearly in the right place Blockah: And it is the same name of folder as in world.mt Blockah: Just doesnt work... Blockah: So I must have the name wrong for the mod, but it wont tell me anywhere what the name should be lol (Pretty bad I know) ANAND: I think the name should be animals_modpack? ANAND: Maybe check modpack.conf? ANAND: > hidden@localhost: mods$ls ANAND: animals_modpack animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip mods_here.txt weather ANAND: Do you still have the zip file in the mods/ folder? ANAND: Not sure if MT is okay with random files in mods/ folder ANAND: Btw, modpack.conf should have a "name" field ANAND: Oh nvm Blockah: I'll look now ANAND: Modpacks can't be "enabled" in the conventional sense. ANAND: I just checked one of my world's world.mt Blockah: In Windows I just copied it to mods and clicked configure and it worked Blockah: Why is linux different? ANAND: I don't see load_mod_ = true Blockah: o.o Blockah: How the fk do you load it then lol Blockah: Sheesh their documentation on how to install it is weak ANAND: Instead, the mods within are directly enabled Blockah: Lol Blockah: We talk win or nix here? Blockah: Mods within are directly enabled... ANAND: But doing it via the GUI should be pretty straight-forward Blockah: Yeah it was... Blockah: Had I know this was the case Blockah: I'd of got a windows vps ANAND: Linux, btw. Not that it matters, AFAIK. Blockah: Does the linux version have a gui? ANAND: MT is the same on both platforms ANAND: So, yes Blockah: So... problem is Blockah: Do I just run ./minetest for the gui Blockah: instead of ./minetestserver for the command line ? ANAND: Yes Blockah: Oh that would be sick Blockah: I hope my vps running vnc will work Blockah: Time to try it out ANAND: Wait, is this on a VPS? Blockah: Sure is ANAND: GUI wouldn't work then, AFAIK Blockah: If it was on a home machine I'd just use windows lol Blockah: I'll test it ANAND: I thought you were running this on your local device Blockah: Nah no way Blockah: If that was the case I'd just use windows Blockah: And the gui and life would be easy Blockah: But because of prices, Linux is cheaper Blockah: Hope this GUI works on vnc but I doubt it Blockah: Time to find out ANAND: AFK for a bit Blockah: Cheers Blockah: I wonder why Windows VPS would run a gui Blockah: But a Linux vps can't... If this is true, Linux is pretty much at a disadvantage there, I'll go test it ANAND: You can't access the GUI unless you have a display connected to the host machine ANAND: I don't think Windows vs Linux matters for this ANAND: Btw, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=299283#p299283 ANAND: The mod was already considered to be outdated in 2017 Blockah: VNC is a display just like RDP is a display ANAND: Ah I see Blockah: Yes but that same mod works in Windows when I did configure Blockah: With the same version 5.2.0 Blockah: Which happens to my current and the latest win build Blockah: Which happens to be my current and the latest win build ANAND: Interesting Blockah: So if it works in Windows, it should work in linux Blockah: In theory Blockah: I'm just setting up the IPTables rules Blockah: Gonna jump in Linux Blockah: See if the gui works ANAND: Blockah: It looks like animals_modpack depends on the mobf mod. Do you have that installed? Blockah: Oh no I don't Blockah: It says it is all optional ANAND: Changes 2.5.0 ANAND: -split mobf_core (api) from modpack (git only) ANAND: (from the first post) ANAND: It looks like mobf was split from the modpack sometime in the middle Blockah: Oh so they took it out of there? ANAND: Looks like it. Can't say for sure, unfortunately Blockah: Dependencies: Blockah: -default Blockah: -fire(optional|mandatory for some mods) Blockah: -vessels(optional|mandatory for some mods) Blockah: -wool(optional|mandatory for some mods) Blockah: I just read that Blockah: And was like oh okay Blockah: Only optional depends ANAND: !mod mobf MinetestBot: ANAND: Traders [mobf_trader] by Sokomine - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9013 - https://github.com/Sokomine/mobf_trader Blockah: So I need to grab something called mobf_core too? ANAND: I think so ANAND: Wrong link, MinetestBot >.> Blockah: Okay thanks, I'll try find a .zip and put it inside mods and update world.mt Blockah: Oh dayum Blockah: Seems the whole communitys out of whack even the bot LOL SX: Linux VPS can run GUI just as well as Windows VPS and Mac VPS, usually what you get when you order VPS is not something configured for desktop use.. Blockah: Oh phew... Blockah: Imma give that a go in a moment ANAND: This seems to be the current home of mobf_core: https://gitlab.com/sapier/mobf_core ANAND: I seems... empty SX: also minetest GUI just provides "easy" way to add text lines to configuration files, if you can get it working with GUI then you also can get it working through text console ANAND: True ^ Blockah: Of course Blockah: But the gui takes out any guessing SX: therefore one option is to create installation on Windows and look for config file contents then move those to server but update path separators \ vs / ANAND: Hmm, animals_modpack seems to be empty too: https://gitlab.com/sapier/animals_modpack Blockah: ANAND, Is that bad? SX: and of course file / directory paths unless you can make exact same structure on windows machine too Blockah: Why is he even releasing shit now then that is empty? Blockah: SX yeah I wouldn't bother but thanks heaps for your info bro Blockah: Don't know why idiots like him couldn't just leave stuff well alone Blockah: I remember last year just downloading it, put in mods folder, hit configure, boom had animals Blockah: Now I've gotta download some sort of core thingy... Blockah: Well here goes... ANAND: Blockah: I don't understand. Maybe I forgot how to find my way around GitLab? SX: it might be included in modpack, maybe it was just not enabled in world.mt? usually modpacks do include all stuff but to enable modpack it is not enough to say load_mod_somemodname = true Blockah: Don't blame yourself bro, I've never even liked the idea of GitHub, no idea how they made millions, I'm used to just wget the .zip extract it, configure the conf, execute... Blockah: I don't even know how to use git or clone lol ANAND: I'm trying to clone it, and I'm asked to authenticate. That might be the issue. SX: actually loading like that only loads single mod from modpack if it happens to have same name as whole modpack Blockah: SX bad design eh SX: you need multiple load_mod_ things for all modpack parts Blockah: Well guess what Blockah: It does load them auto Blockah: But sets their value as false Blockah: And then tells me it was unable to load said mod ANAND: o_O Blockah: My entire list will show this Blockah: creative_mode = true Blockah: auth_backend = sqlite3 Blockah: player_backend = sqlite3 Blockah: gameid = minetest Blockah: enable_damage = true Blockah: backend = sqlite3 Blockah: load_mod_weather = true Blockah: load_mod_animals_modpack = true Blockah: in the world.mt Blockah: After I try run minetest Blockah: The list will grow bigger and it'll say the following Blockah: http://blockah.net/world.mt Blockah: Look at that Blockah: All those values are for the mod, and they are set to false, but the daemon says could not find the mod LOL ANAND: My guess is that this happens due to unsatisfied dependencies Blockah: If it can't find the mod, where is it getting the intel to write all that stuff as false in there Blockah: It needs more verbose then... Blockah: Leaving someone high and dry with guessing is odd not even an error code or any help in debug SX: last time I had to deal with that autoload was mintetest engine stupidity that it added load_mod_mymod = false to end of world.mt automatically while there was load_mod_mymod = true in middle of file Blockah: So I'll re-read the entire post for the mod Blockah: SX Oh yeah? What was your solution? ANAND: Blockah: Check for warnings/errors in debug.txt - you might find a clue or two SX: of course that did not work but instead complains about stuff and I had to go through world.mt removing duplicates Blockah: Been there done that all it says in debug is SX: that is problem is known and mentioned in minetest bug tracker @ github Blockah: The entire debug shows => https://pastebin.com/Zx2AMM5w SX: so just have to deal with it until fix or better mod/modpack handling is published Blockah: Well the last relative debug that is ANAND see that? Blockah: Yeah but how would you make said mod load sx? ANAND: Blockah: If it adds load_mod_blah_blah, then it recognises the mod blah_blah. Blockah: Comment the line? ANAND: Also, remove the load_mod_animals_modpack line Blockah: But I named the folder animals_modpack Blockah: I'm trying to load that mod lol ANAND: MT can't load a modpack - it can only load the mods within Blockah: Oh ok Blockah: I'll use gui to load the modpack then Blockah: Deleted it Blockah: Will now try gui to load the modpack SX: your core problem is animals_modpack configuration SX: weather mod probably wont cause problems Blockah: Wow so minetest asks what program to open it with LMAO Blockah: Must just gotta use ./ from a terminal SX: I'm almost 100% sure that you have wrong load_mod lines in world.mt and there's just modpack name but not actual mods included in modpack ANAND: I see a load_mod_mobf = false in world.mt. Hmm... Blockah: I removed the mod loads Blockah: ANAND, All those lines say = false lol Blockah: Minetest gui fails Blockah: Ends up saying Aborted Blockah: Because of audio ANAND: Ahh SX: add mod_load_xyz = true for every subdirectory inside animals_modpack that contains init.lua Blockah: There's no init.lua inside animals_modpack SX SX: or better load_mod_ but anyway SX: yes there should not be, did you read that at all ^^ ANAND: Or just set all the values inside http://blockah.net/world.mt to true :P SX: for every SUBdirectory inside modpack Blockah: Wow Blockah: That'd be like 50 folders SX: lot of animals? Blockah: 50 folders x at least 3 commands is at least 150 commands holy shit ANAND: 50 x 3? Wha... Blockah: If I had to nano in and nano out plus edit Blockah: That's 3 commands basically Blockah: Could be way more Blockah: So if there was 50 folders Blockah: And each folder had a init.lua file ANAND: Just open world.mt, replace all the false with true Blockah: That's 3 x 50 aka 150 cmds of typing Blockah: At least Blockah: Ok Blockah: But I bet they will all go back to false Blockah: Sec ANAND: The world.mt you linked to here: http://blockah.net/world.mt SX: ls -1 | sed 's/(.*)/load_mod_\1 = true//' SX: maybe? ANAND: Or that ^ dennisjenkins: I am trying to create a world with the v7 mapgen and "floatlands" enabled. I have a shell script which builds a minetest server inside an LXC container. The script sets "mgv7_spflags = floatlands" into the minetest.conf file that it then passed to the minetest server process via argv. Yet when the world is created, there are no floatlands, and map_meta.txt shows that they are disabled. dennisjenkins: I've read https://dev.minetest.net/Mapgen_Parameters dennisjenkins: I'm not sure what I'm missing. Blockah: ANAND, I will replace the word false with the word true ANAND one moment Blockah: Paste it all into wordpad Blockah: Ctrl + H replace all false with true Blockah: And paste it back in world.mt Blockah: Done deal now lets see if it works ANAND: dennisjenkins: Does the script add a new "mgv7_spflags" to the file or edit the existing value? dennisjenkins: I create the entire minetest.conf from scratch, there is no duplicate "mgv7_spflags". ANAND: i.e. There could be issues if there's an existing value ANAND: Ah, ok Blockah: Hey Blockah: HEY! Blockah: I think it might of worked Blockah: Time to go look dennisjenkins: A search of all "*.lua" files in all "mods" dirs contain no reference to "mgv7" either. So I don't think its getting overridden by any mods. ANAND: Yay :) Blockah: It's taking longer to load the loading screen is at MEDIA Blockah: So I think it is downloading the animals content for my client! Blockah: This is gonna be so cool if it does Blockah: I'll punch the ceiling if this works :D :D :D ANAND: dennisjenkins: I'm afraid I don't know much about mapgen and mapgen flags. I won't be able to help you much, sorry. dennisjenkins: ok, ty Blockah: Linux VPS can run GUI just as well as Windows VPS and Mac VPS, usually what you get when you order VPS is not something configured for desktop use.. Blockah: Sadly my linode linux vps does not run the GUI Blockah: Guess that's +1 for Windows Blockah: I thought I'd never see the day lol ANAND: AFK for a bit (again) ANAND: Blockah: Let me know if it works ;) Blockah: Still loading bro Blockah: And I will let u know! Emerald2: Still having trouble? Blockah: HOLY SHIT IT FINALLY WORKED :D Blockah: I'm posting up the solution for all! dennisjenkins: /home/minetest/etc/minetest.conf:mgv7_spflags = ridges, floatlands, caverns, mountains dennisjenkins: /home/minetest/.minetest/worlds/world/map_meta.txt:mgv7_spflags = mountains, ridges, nofloatlands, caverns dennisjenkins: there is a comment in "..../settingtypes.txt" about mgv7_spflags, and that's it. dennisjenkins: no other files in /home, /etc or /usr contain the text string "mgv7_spflags". dennisjenkins: I'm not sure why minetest is ignoring the value I put into minetest.conf. map_meta.txt is written to disk on the first run of the server. dennisjenkins: downing the server, editing map_meta.txt to s/nofloatlands/floatlands/g' and restarting the server has no effect. dennisjenkins: no float lands appear... dennisjenkins: ah, n/m.... just bad timing. They were removed in mt 5.1.1 and will come back in "the near future". dennisjenkins: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24729&hilit=floatlands ANAND: Blockah: Congrats! :) ANAND: dennisjenkins: Ah yeah. I'm expecting floatlands would be ready in time for 5.3.0. Blockah: ANAND, I can't believe it was so easy Blockah: I wonder why it set them as false instead of true ANAND hahahaha Blockah: Odd how it would say unable to load animals but when I turned all others to true that error went away LOL fail Blockah: The sad part is when Windows starts beating Linux because the GUI wont load in Linux but will in Windows /rip Linux lol Blockah: Wonder if you can launch the gui without having audio as an option ANAND: There's an issue of Minetest segfaulting when compiled with support for audio, but there are no audio devices on launch. (or something like that) Blockah: I'm reading it atm ANAND: I think the fix has already been merged. In any case, this problem should vanish in 5.3.0 Blockah: Windows and & Linux both crash if audio device is disabled ANAND: Yeah Blockah: 5.3.0 isn't out yet lol ANAND: Ik :P Blockah: How can I compile my thingy so it does not have sound? Blockah: That should like fix it right Blockah: issues 8107 contain the official bug ANAND: cmake -DENABLE_SOUND=0 should work, IIRC Blockah: What's IIRC mean lol ANAND: "If I Remember Correctly" Blockah: When I run cmake again do I need to kill the server? Blockah: Or is it okay to keep it running? appguru: I'd like to bump the protocol version ANAND: You need to stop the program, Blockah ANAND: And then recompile it :P ANAND: Here's the PR that fixed this issue: #9804 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9804 -- Fix broken client if openal cannot be opened by nerzhul ANAND: Blockah: Btw, I'm not sure if that's the correct cmake flag. One sec ANAND: Ok, that's the correct cmake flag Blockah: Thanks ANAND: It's documented in https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/README.md ANAND: Yw, and good luck :) appguru: Incompatible clients generate error messages when presented with unsupported media files appguru: To work around this, I'd have the server only send compatible ones appguru: sfan5: how do I bump the protocol version? ANAND: appguru: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/network/networkprotocol.h#L209 appguru: Thanks ANAND: o7 appguru: Do I need to change the "protocol_id" as well ? ANAND: Not required ANAND: Bumping LATEST_PROTOCOL_VERSION should suffice appguru: #9907 is ready for review ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9907 -- Shaders as media files by appgurueu Blockah: # Name of the player. Blockah: # When running a server, clients connecting with this name are admins. Blockah: # When starting from the main menu, this is overridden. Blockah: # type: string Blockah: Can I put name1 and name2 Blockah: Do I need to seperate these with a space? or a semi colon? Or something else? Blockah: This is inside minetest.conf nephele: in minetest.conf i think comma is normally the seperating char for severall entries the lua_api probably mentions that in any case sfan5: you can only have a single name in minetest.conf sfan5: that settings is mostly useful for initial setup, because if you have one admin you can use /grant to give any necessary permissions to other players Blockah: Aha Emerald2: Hey sfan you familiar with running gdb? sfan5: yes Emerald2: Does it use much memory and stuff? This PC is kinda weaksauce but want to track down the cause of a client segfault. sfan5: gdb uses some memory for itself but it's not like running Minetest under gdb is going to make Minetest use 30% more memory Emerald2: The server the causes the most segfaults uses less than usual since I don't explore a lot of map. Emerald2: How does it work? sfan5: what? gdb? Emerald2: Yeah. sfan5: very roughly: it just runs a program normally, but if it crashes (or you set a breakpoint) it "freezes" it so you can inspect and or interactively debug it Emerald2: I remember something about being able to get a backtrace? Emerald2: ruben asked me to do it one time because sometimes when a server goes restarts or crashes my client freezes up. sfan5: yes, if you ask for a backtrace it uses the debug information in the binary to interpret the program memory and produce a list of functions that were called and/or the values of variables Emerald2: Sounds spammy. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Cleanup of particle & particlespawner structures and code (#9893) 131357ea1 https://git.io/Jf2wu (152020-05-22T11:23:25Z) yrungr: stable-5 build is crashing. yrungr: /minetest/src/porting.cpp:721:62: error: use of undeclared identifier 'environ' return posix_spawnp(NULL, "open", NULL, NULL, (char**)argv, environ) == 0; sfan5: that's not stable-5 sfan5: either way please open an issue yrungr: git branch master yrungr: * stable-5 sfan5: probably a missing header include Krock: #elif defined(__APPLE__) Krock: yes, unistd for linux yrungr: this is happening on a macbook. Krock: https://sourceforge.net/p/qgit/patches/4/ yrungr: https://pastebin.com/HCb0WUky < cmake output Krock: writing a patch... Krock: yrungr: could you please git apply this one? https://pastebin.com/raw/Y9tK7hKX Krock: also https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/issues/2458 yrungr: Krock: git apply krok.patch yrungr: error: patch failed: src/porting.cpp:49 yrungr: error: src/porting.cpp: patch does not apply Krock: why not yrungr: i saved it as a text file and did git apply krok.patch. sfan5: try curl -s https://pastebin.com/raw/Y9tK7hKX | patch -p1 --verbose - Krock: well then, apply it manually Krock: copy & paste. it's only a few lines Krock: ah. pastebin somehow removed the tailing newline appguru: yrungr: shouldn't it be krock.patch? yrungr: Krock: applied manually. compiling now. yrungr: and it worked. :) yrungr: thanks Krock. Krock: yrungr: thanks for the feedback. yrungr: np. appguru: I'd like to bring #9879 up again ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9879 -- Import irrlicht sources into minetest by nerzhul yrungr: https://pastebin.com/rsQtCvt0 < when i try to run my newly compiled minetest i get errors where it's looking for files in subfolders of minetest/bin, which seems unusual. yrungr: minetest/builtin/init.lua exists, but not minetest/bin/builtin/init.lua Krock: run dir must be ../ sfan5: running from bin/ works here on linux but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Krock: strange. Minetest should find its root dir automatically yrungr: i'm running it from the minetest folder with ./bin/minetest yrungr: still broken. Krock: it's RUN_IN_PLACE=1? sfan5: pastebin a log with --verbose please yrungr: https://pastebin.com/cB5Sd3TB yrungr: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE -DBUILD_CLIENT=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE yrungr: is run_in_place=false a bad idea on mac? Krock: it'll use system paths which might not be tested well sfan5: no, but it expects you to install after building yrungr: ok, i'll try it with true. Krock: RUN_IN_PLACE=1 is usually the safer option Krock: sfan5: though that isn't the cause for the bin to not find its root directory :/ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Check for valid base64 before decoding (#9904) 13e79bc40 https://git.io/Jf2ol (152020-05-22T12:26:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: MacOS: Fix environ not being found 137ab0c06 https://git.io/Jf2o8 (152020-05-22T12:24:55Z) sfan5: yes Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/porting.cpp#L486 Krock: well, it found bin/ there sfan5: that code looks a lot like it expects MT to be installed system-wide Krock: ..because setSystemPaths() is only used for system-wide cases Krock: the run in place code is surprisingly generic yrungr: wow, that went badly. yrungr: it built ok with run_in_place=true, but when i started it none of the keys worked, so i couldn't leave or pause the game. even when i pressed ctrl-up to see all programs running on my mac it didn't let go of my mouse. yrungr: i had to reboot. Krock: nice yrungr: yeah yrungr: hmm. tried building master and this build is shy. automatically hides behind other running programs. yrungr: same deal with master, doesn't recognize the keyboard. yrungr: luckily this time i was ready and ran sleep 20; ps aux | grep minetest | awk '{print $2}' | xargs kill before i lauched the game. Quiark: yrungr: on macos? that's because you ran the binary, did not open the bundle.... if I remember correctly yrungr: Quiark: open the bundle? Quiark: the .app folder which contains the whole program and looks like a single icon in Finder yrungr: i don't seem to have one of those. is that a cmake option? sfan5: try building with -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0 and use make package yrungr: ok sfan5: if I guessed correctly cmake will generate a bundle which you can drag to Applications or launch directly (instead of the binary) yrungr: that sounds good. yrungr: sfan5: that works! :) yrungr: sfan5: fantastic, thanks for your help. texmex: !tell oil_boi I like the format of the current videos. Always new features presented, it’s like small gifts each video. MinetestBot: texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around appguru: My server-sent shaders PR is ready for review: #9907 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9907 -- Shaders as media files (server-sent shaders) by appgurueu appguru: Oh, also please consider merging #9903, it's really trivial ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9903 -- Properly implement exposing the zoom key by appgurueu Out`Of`Control: Hi, update moretrees + biom_lib, some trees do not grow. Server 5.1.1 appguru: Regarding #9903 : I have merged raistlin's branch so that he should appear as co-author ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9903 -- Properly implement exposing the zoom key by appgurueu BruceLee: I need help guys, BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/mods$ ls BruceLee: master.tar.gz minetest_mod_weather BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/mods$ pwd BruceLee: /home/sec/minetest/mods BruceLee: So... I've got the weather mod in the right folder BruceLee: I've also added load_mod_minetest_mod_weather = true inside world.mt BruceLee: But the stupid thing says; 2020-05-21 11:25:27: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "animals" "minetest_mod_weather" BruceLee: Is it broken or something now on linux? Worked fine on windows with the gui BruceLee: Said weather mod was: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=5245 BruceLee: Any help would be greatly appreciated BruceLee: I've also opened a ticket, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24771 BruceLee: Either I'm missing something the instructions don't provide, or it's just borked on Linux... luvo: which version of minetest do you have? BruceLee: my client is 5.20 BruceLee: And the server on linux is luk3yx: Are you sure it isn't meant to be called "weather"? BruceLee: Uh I don't know how to find out the version of minetest the server is running? BruceLee: luk3yx, well how would I know? It never says that in the readme, or on the post? BruceLee: That's like the deal, how do are you supposed to know what it is meant to be named if no one tells you in the readme? BruceLee: Real newb here, sorry BruceLee: I'll try rename the folder inside mods/ to weather and update worlds.mt, sec BruceLee: mv minetest_mod_weather/ weather BruceLee: Time to update world.mt and see if it works upon reboot Emerald2: Normaly the mod folder would have the name of the mod. Emerald2: Which usually involves just taking -master off the end, the way they come if I get them straight from github or wherever. BruceLee: That's what I did BruceLee: I simply removed -master Emerald2: Wow it sure got named weirdly in the first place then. BruceLee: Nope still didn't work BruceLee: I renamed it to weather BruceLee: Says /setweather command not found BruceLee: Wow, this sucks hard Emerald2: What's inside the mod folder itself? Emerald2: It's not a folder in a folder is it? Emerald2: Like weather doesn't have another weather in it? luk3yx: Oh, I see BruceLee: /mods/weather luk3yx: Is there a mods/weather/weather? BruceLee: Inside the mods folder is a folder called weather just like the tutorials on utube show BruceLee: Oh I'll have look BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/bin$ ./minetestserver --config /home/sec/minetest/minetest.conf BruceLee: 2020-05-21 11:44:56: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "animals" BruceLee: .__ __ __ BruceLee: _____ |__| ____ _____/ |_ ____ _______/ |_ BruceLee: / \| |/ \_/ __ \ __\/ __ \ / ___/\ __\ BruceLee: | Y Y \ | | \ ___/| | \ ___/ \___ \ | | BruceLee: |__|_| /__|___| /\___ >__| \___ >____ > |__| Emerald2: OK and what's inside that weather? BruceLee: \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ BruceLee: 2020-05-21 11:44:56: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sec/minetest/new-worlds] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 11:44:56: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:8888. BruceLee: 2020-05-21 11:45:26: ACTION[Server]: D [203.160.118.168] joins game. List of players: D BruceLee: Er, sorry sec BruceLee: awh crap BruceLee: There is a weather folder inside the weather folder Emerald2: It happens lol. BruceLee: So I'll need to make it only one level deep yep? Emerald2: Yeah. BruceLee: Okay done, time to give it a reboot BruceLee: Loading BruceLee: Here's hoping BruceLee: WTF BruceLee: Invalid command BruceLee: ... luvo: did you change the name in the world.mt file? luvo: oh the name was right BruceLee: sec@localhost:~$ cd minetest/mods BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/mods$ ls BruceLee: master.tar.gz weather BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/mods$ luvo: ok, ok luvo: what's the invalid command BruceLee: /setweather anything Emerald2: Hmm is that the correct load mod syntax? BruceLee: Correct load mod syntax?? BruceLee: When I launch minetest it no longer says unable to find the mod BruceLee: /setweather rain BruceLee: /setweather snow BruceLee: On the website for the mod BruceLee: It says yes you can use /setweather rain or /setweather snow or /setweather none Emerald2: I've also added load_mod_minetest_mod_weather = true inside world.mt luvo: and if you enter the world config on the client (the gui) does it say it is enabled? BruceLee: Oh BruceLee: I think I updated that BruceLee: One sec BruceLee: For some reason BruceLee: It changed load_mod_weather = false BruceLee: Instead of true BruceLee: I'll try change it to true and do another reboot BruceLee: Dude Emerald2: Ahh dev wiki says yes. BruceLee: it auto changed it to BruceLee: Back to = false Emerald2: Missing dependency? BruceLee: Wtf for BruceLee: Nope BruceLee: It has none BruceLee: Dependencies: none Emerald2: Anything in debug.txt ? luvo: and the config luvo: what does the gui config says Emerald2: luvo it's a server, it has no GUI BruceLee: I have no gui config luvo this is a vps over putty luvo: right haha BruceLee: Where would I find debug Emerald2 ? luvo: i was thinking in a client world config Emerald2: Probably in home/.minetest Emerald2: Otherwise locate debug.txt BruceLee: Why inside .minetest? BruceLee: I'll have a look BruceLee: Ah it is there Emerald2: idk where yours is, that's where mine is tho BruceLee: 2020-04-13 07:06:54: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sec/.minetest/worlds/world] BruceLee: 2020-04-13 07:06:54: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. BruceLee: 2020-04-13 07:06:56: [Main]: INFO: signal_handler(): Ctrl-C pressed, shutting down. BruceLee: That debug looks old BruceLee: I run on port 8888 Emerald2: Yep. Emerald2: Is that the last lines of it? BruceLee: ./minetestserver --config /home/sec/minetest/minetest.conf BruceLee: Yes BruceLee: I use /home/sec/minetest not /home/sec/.minetest BruceLee: But there is a .minetest folder none the less Emerald2: OK so debug.txt in there? BruceLee: 2020-05-21 11:56:27: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "animals" BruceLee: 2020-05-21 11:56:27: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sec/minetest/new-worlds] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 11:56:27: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:8888. BruceLee: Displays no errors Emerald2: Which animals mod is it? BruceLee: But the world.mt file certainly changes load_mod_weather = true to load_mod_weather = false upon reboot of minetest BruceLee: Forget animals mod I've just gotta delete that BruceLee: That didn't load either BruceLee: So I gave up on that one BruceLee: But the weather one should be working Emerald2: Are you loading any other mods? BruceLee: Nope BruceLee: Have not ever been able to ever get one to load BruceLee: Not on this linux setup Emerald2: luk3yx: ideas? BruceLee: Followed the wiki like glue and picked mods with no dependencies BruceLee: I had installed minetest orginally with apt-get install minetest BruceLee: It never worked so I just compiled one I think BruceLee: Hence the run in place one BruceLee: I also made the map load from new-worlds instead of just /worlds luk3yx: Not really BruceLee: But other than that everything is stock and everything should be named correctly, there is no loading error BruceLee: Dayum Emerald2: Hopefully sfan5 or another dev will come along who can help more. I don't have server hosting experience. Emerald2: brb BruceLee: description = adds weather using particle system with big particles for big performance BruceLee: Okay thanks for your help Emerald2 ;) -- Linux must just be having a hard time with it atm BruceLee: That or my configuration is invalid which I can't seem to figure out luvo: yesterday I installed from source and cre luvo: oops didn't mean to send that BruceLee: I don't know why it auto changes from load_mod_weather = true to load_mod_weather = false BruceLee: Does the lua.init file inside the mod show you how it calls upon things? BruceLee: init.lua = modpath=minetest.get_modpath("weather"), BruceLee: So I assume it is looking for a folder inside mods called weather BruceLee: When you extract a mod into /minetest/mods you want the folder to appear right? BruceLee: Like you don't just extract it all into just the mods directory right? BruceLee: Otherwise how would it know its name to load the mod right? Emerald2: Wait but you have 2 minetest directories in home you said? Emerald2: Is one from apt and the other the compiled one? BruceLee: yes BruceLee: I have minetest and .minetest BruceLee: Should I use apt-get remove minetest ? BruceLee: And see if that fixes anything? BruceLee: But I don't see how the compiled version wont just look in its own directory * Emerald2: shrugs. Emerald2: Above my pay grade. :) BruceLee: Lol no worries BruceLee: I just dont get why people who release mods BruceLee: Don't just have them as the name that they should be BruceLee: Just adds further stress and confusion BruceLee: Heck this weather mods and animals-mods didnt even say what the folder should be named BruceLee: Guessing game lol luvo: yo used the option to compile in place? BruceLee: Don't know... BruceLee: Can't remember BruceLee: How would I check? BruceLee: Does linux have a gui for minetest ? like for server config or nah? BruceLee: Wonder if it world work on a vps using vnc BruceLee: Probs not BruceLee: Man I so dont wanna have to buy a Windows VPS just to add mods to minetest lol BruceLee: I'll try on my spare server while I wait, and see if the apt-get version fixes anything nephele: you could run the normal version if you really want a gui, it is capable of hosting too, but i don't think many people do that persistently so untested (and also likely much harder to supervise) Emerald2: Minetest normally works well on Linux VPSes. Something is just weird on your setup. XD luvo: im back luvo: I just tested in archlinux, the server from source and the option load_mod_ = true inworlds/world/world.mt Emerald2: wb luvo: and it worked... Emerald2: If you can, just hang around here and somebody should be able to help you. nephele: BruceLee, the "compiled" version only checks its own dirs if you set RUN_IN_PLACE when compiling with cmake luvo: maybe try to rebuild everythong with the ius in place nephele: otherwise it checks in ~/.minetest too luvo: oh, the run in place is the key here then! BruceLee: Uh BruceLee: What command would I run to make it run in place? BruceLee: Some sort of cmake --argument? nephele: if you already configured with cmake and want a "gui" to set it you can run "ccmake ." nephele: which will show you all available arguments nephele: otherwise something like cmake -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 . or something luvo: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE BruceLee: ccmake not found luvo: from the readme luvo: only one c BruceLee: Ah cmake . works nephele: luvo, ccmake is a different tool luvo: oh luvo: didnt know! nephele: i guess ubuntu does not install it with cmake BruceLee: I'm on debian BruceLee: So I should try cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE BruceLee: Correct luvo ? luvo: and luvo: the server option too luvo: by default it is false BruceLee: I find that arguments where? On the wiki? BruceLee: It wasn't in the loadout of cmake . luvo: no no luvo: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/README.md luvo: there you can find the arguments luvo: search for the build server one BruceLee: You can build a bare server by specifying -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE. luvo: yep luvo: also add the run in place option BruceLee: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE BruceLee: So it must need this luvo: exactly luvo: and then make BruceLee: Compiling as we speak BruceLee: https://pastebin.com/SPmmjtDR BruceLee: This was the output of the first command BruceLee: The make command should be done in a few mins or less BruceLee: Does it matter if minetest is running while I'm compiling? nephele: no BruceLee: Cool BruceLee: -- *** Will build version 5.3.0-dev *** BruceLee: Says I'm running that version luvo: uh, maybe you should luvo: checkout 5.2.0 for a stable version I guess BruceLee: Ok nephele: if you run -dev expect to do some testing.. :), it's not a release version BruceLee: But I can find a link for that where? BruceLee: Also BruceLee: I can just copy the worlds folder right? luvo: no no nephele: use "git tag" and then "git checkout " from that list nephele: BruceLee, why are you compiling the game yourself btw? nephele: i thought ubuntu had it in it's repo? BruceLee: I'm on debian -_- not ubuntu BruceLee: The apt-get version I think didn't work properly nephele: debian too, i think BruceLee: Or there was some reason BruceLee: The precompiled version had an issue I think or I couldn't understand it throwing all these files all over the place nephele: using ~/.minetest is fine i think, just a slightly different path... seems like kind of a waste to recompile to change that, heh BruceLee: It meant all the mods were to be found only in /usr/var/share BruceLee: Which only root had access to BruceLee: So my normal user would not have access to write in that directory that's the issue BruceLee: Since mods go there... I'd have to copy paste as root, which I figured might lead to some permission issues if my lower user is trying to access that mod nephele: no, it looks for mods in ~/.minetest/mods BruceLee: Oh... nephele: unless debian somehow fucked that up BruceLee: It never made one BruceLee: So I must just have to make one there then nephele: yeah, you need to make it yourself BruceLee: Okay BruceLee: I'll use my brand new server BruceLee: To apt-get install minetest BruceLee: Then I'll download the mod BruceLee: And see how it goes BruceLee: Sec BruceLee: I can just copy worlds folder over correct? BruceLee: From the dev build to whatever build debian has luvo: yep BruceLee: Thank god BruceLee: K sec nephele: I don't know, the dev version may not be backwards compatible, but you can try BruceLee: Oh god luvo: oh true BruceLee: I'm gonna go mental if it doesn't work BruceLee: We've had 3 users put in so much work BruceLee: And that stupid guide said to use dev grrrr BruceLee: Sec nephele: if you really just copy it should be fine, the original worlds are safe nephele: you can always go back to dev if you need BruceLee: Dev is sucking if no mods BruceLee: Lol BruceLee: Se nephele: ... what guide recomends to use -dev ? BruceLee: Thanks 4 ur help brb nephele: release versions are release versions for a reason :D BruceLee: Oh I think I know why now BruceLee: My minetest version is 2.5.0 BruceLee: Debian's latest apt-get install version of minetest is lower than that luvo: wow luvo: hahahaha BruceLee: So when connecting it would say Nah bro, different version bruh nephele: Ah, yeah then you do need to compile it yourself indeed luvo: old stable debian! BruceLee: Ok so I've recompiled nephele: debian is notorious for package versions from the last century BruceLee: Seems to of rebooted fine BruceLee: Time to test if weather works * BruceLee: holds fingers luvo: *holding* BruceLee: FFS BruceLee: Invalid command BruceLee: FK my life BruceLee: Oh wait luvo: hey BruceLee: That world.mt might still be on false, sec luvo: yeah check it out BruceLee: It was on false BruceLee: Let me try reboot luvo: what command are you running to start the server? BruceLee: ./minetestserver --config /home/sec/minetest/minetest.conf luvo: you in the bin folder right? BruceLee: correct BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/bin$ ls BruceLee: minetestserver BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/bin$ pwd BruceLee: sec@localhost:~/minetest/bin$ BruceLee: I'll try reboot it now that false = true BruceLee: Its changed it back to false the fgt BruceLee: load_mod_weather = false BruceLee: -_- luvo: you using the world from minetest, not .minetest right? BruceLee: I'll try compile a lower stable version BruceLee: luvo, How would I find out? BruceLee: I had to use that syntax to guide it to /home/sec/minetest/new-worlds nephele: mv .minetest ~/.minetest-old BruceLee: K sec nephele: then you can be sure it does not see that folder BruceLee: Done deal BruceLee: I'll try reboot it BruceLee: Works BruceLee: Er BruceLee: I mean BruceLee: It restarted fine * BruceLee: holds fingers BruceLee: Invalid cmd GRRRRR... BruceLee: I'll download the mod again into mods luvo: is it false again? BruceLee: And just remove the words -master nothing else BruceLee: yes luvo: in the world config? BruceLee: yes BruceLee: It just auto changes itself from true to false luvo: did you changed it before rebooting? BruceLee: Might be incorrect mod name for the folder BruceLee: Yes luvo: mmmm interesting guess nephele: turn it off, then change it, and then start again luvo: if you wait 30 min I'll try the mod in my server BruceLee: Yeah I been doing that nephele ;) nephele: hm BruceLee: Right now I did ctrl + c nephele: Well, i don't know... maybe someone else knows, maybe Krock or sfan5 BruceLee: nano ../new-worlds/world.mt BruceLee: Change it to true instead of false BruceLee: So will test this and the other theory BruceLee: Thank you guys so much for your help luvo: np! sorry for not resolving your problem BruceLee: load_mod_weather = true BruceLee: load_mod_minetest_mod_weather = true BruceLee: Got this so far just to be safe luvo: is this one https://github.com/theFox6/minetest_mod_weather right? BruceLee: Dunno BruceLee: It's this one https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=5245 BruceLee: 2020-05-21 12:46:03: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "animals" "minetest_mod_weather" BruceLee: So I know it cant be called minetest_mod_weather BruceLee: I'll try see if it works now BruceLee: If it doesn't I'll compile a stable version not dev BruceLee: Invalid command fml JUST WANTED SOME RAIN screw you linux BruceLee: Lol BruceLee: Okay time to find a stable .tar.gz of minetest BruceLee: Wonder if I should compile from source or use the buster version hrm BruceLee: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/archive/stable-5.zip BruceLee: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE luvo: im on pc now, let me try the mod BruceLee: make No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop BruceLee: er whoops wrong directory lol luvo: hahaha BruceLee: I hope this works BruceLee: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE BruceLee: Ffs BruceLee: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE BruceLee: No CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER could be found. BruceLee: Gotta be kidding me BruceLee: -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred! luvo_: woops luvo_: mmm BruceLee: I have cmake installed I just installed it BruceLee: It's the same server and os version I have on my working debian server wtf... BruceLee: Tell CMake where to find the compiler by setting either the environment BruceLee: variable "CXX" or the CMake cache entry CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER to the full path BruceLee: to the compiler, or to the compiler name if it is in the PATH. BruceLee: I'll have no idea where that is, as it never has asked before BruceLee: God sake all a man wants to do is minetest up large with a few mods, fuck you linux lol * BruceLee: googles luvo_: strange... luvo_: hey BruceLee you using the minetest_game for the server? luvo_: or other game? BruceLee: Ah I need g++ BruceLee: luvo_, What do you mean? BruceLee: Oh yey! luvo_: show me your line in minetest.conf with "default_game =" BruceLee: I fixed the compile issue BruceLee: I need g++ not just gcc BruceLee: Sec BruceLee: # default_game = minetest BruceLee: Commented luvo_: mmm luvo_: uncoment and change minetest with minetest_game BruceLee: Why is that? I don't think I have minetest_game I think this is just a server copy BruceLee: I dunno BruceLee: But I'll try that luvo_: oh, you must be using the minimal version BruceLee: All I know is BruceLee: I load minetest.net BruceLee: I go to downloads BruceLee: Source code BruceLee: Get the latest stable or development source code from GitHub. BruceLee: You will probably want Minetest Game as well. Put the game in your games directory. BruceLee: I click on the stable link BruceLee: Takes me here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/tree/stable-5 BruceLee: I click on clone or download BruceLee: Right click Download ZIP BruceLee: Hit copy link and use wget thatlink in terminal to download it luvo_: clone this https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git into the games/ BruceLee: Dunno how I never use github I just prefer wget BruceLee: But okay I'll install git or whatever it is luvo_: mmm BruceLee: And what directory do I put it into? luvo_: games/ BruceLee: I need to still change the .conf to minetest_game yes? BruceLee: What command do I use to clone that link? BruceLee: git is already newest BruceLee: Oh wait BruceLee: Inside games BruceLee: there is a minetest_game BruceLee: and a minimal folder already BruceLee: luvo_, BruceLee: Inside games BruceLee: there is a minetest_game BruceLee: and a minimal folder already BruceLee: I've changed the normal default_game BruceLee: Lets see if this works BruceLee: Seems to of loaded fine luvo__: the command exists for me BruceLee: Time to test the cmd bet it wont work BruceLee: invalid cmd FML BruceLee: What command works for you? appguru: you have minetest_game stored twice I bet BruceLee: I never set it up luvo__: the /setweather command appguru: once in a protected installation folder somewhere in usr/share BruceLee: appguru, Probably why? appguru: because MT is bundled with MTG BruceLee: It is compiled as run in place shouldn't it look here and nowhere else? appguru: A run in place BruceLee: luvo__, What did you name the mod to inside mods ? luvo__: I just cloned the mod luvo__: and then move the weather folder into the mods/ folder BruceLee: So you downloaded the mod like I did BruceLee: Extracted it BruceLee: cd'd into its directory luvo__: so I have mods/weather/init.lua BruceLee: Moved weather into /mods/weather BruceLee: Yeah BruceLee: appguru, So I need to remove minetest_game somewhere else? BruceLee: I'll start with apt-get remove minetest luvo__: yeah luvo__: try that BruceLee: minetest is not installed BruceLee: Seems I already have BruceLee: And /usr/share has no minetest in it luvo__: do you have the .minetest folder still or did you renamed to .minetest-old? BruceLee: I renamed it BruceLee: Things just glitched out I think BruceLee: No idea why BruceLee: Will try to compile the stable version BruceLee: Dev must just be rooted BruceLee: What version of minetest did u use luvo__ ? blaise: could someone help me with something completely unrelated ? BruceLee: CMake Warning at src/CMakeLists.txt:55 (message): BruceLee: cURL is required to announce to the server list luvo__: I used 5.2.0 from the source BruceLee: I've totally got curl installed BruceLee: I've no idea why identical systems are having different errors, thats impossible luvo__: identicals systems different servers? blaise: I need help identifying the movie clip at 8 minutes 30 seconds in this yt video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4pxw4tYeCU BruceLee: Well identical works BruceLee: I wget the .zip, unzip it... blaise: where the guy explodes at the snap of a finger BruceLee: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE BruceLee: It gets mad and says no curl here bro luvo__: so which curl works right? BruceLee: curl is already the newest version (7.64.0-4+deb10u1). BruceLee: apt-get says yup installed BruceLee: compiler says cant find it bro BruceLee: God sake -_- Calinou: there are multiple libcurl versions Calinou: try installing libcurl4-openssl-dev Calinou: if that doesn't work, try libcurl4-gnutls-dev Calinou: (be careful, installing those might remove packages! Review the apt output carefully) Calinou: they will conflict with each other IIRC BruceLee: Didn't work BruceLee: I'll try the other BruceLee: Didn't work either BruceLee: For fuck sake cant a man get a break *Sigh* luvo__: It's so strange dude BruceLee: I've got gcc installed I've got g++ installed, I've got cmake installed, I'm using the right commands, I'm building from source, I have the latest stable zip release BruceLee: I'm doing it all right and nah bro don't wanna work fer you... * BruceLee: bangs head luvo__: hahaha BruceLee: You should pastebin every command you type start to finish luvo__ BruceLee: I'll emulate that BruceLee: Start from scratch and scoop it out of your bash_history luvo__: allright BruceLee: Use pastebin BruceLee: This way I should be able to replicate your setup 100% BruceLee: I just can't believe this I really cant lol BruceLee: Here is what I get https://pastebin.com/7zrYLXBa BruceLee: When trying to compile with cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE BruceLee: -- *** Will build version 5.2.0 *** BruceLee: Any ideas? BruceLee: The pastebin link is there luvo__: https://pastebin.com/vsv2igzY BruceLee: Cheers luvo__ will try replicate luvo__: oh you have a problem BruceLee: Two by the looks of it luvo__: did you run this command? sudo apt install g++ make libc6-dev libirrlicht-dev cmake libbz2-dev libpng-dev libjpeg-dev libxxf86vm-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libsqlite3-dev libogg-dev libvorbis-dev libopenal-dev libcurl4-gnutls-dev libfreetype6-dev zlib1g-dev libgmp-dev libjsoncpp-dev BruceLee: Nah luvo__: thats from the minetest readme BruceLee: Ah was just going there now BruceLee: K will try this BruceLee: K done BruceLee: I will re-try BruceLee: Worked now BruceLee: Phew BruceLee: Now I'll run make BruceLee: In your pastebin you put mv minetest_mod_weather/weather/ BruceLee: That would do nothing luvo__: oh is missing a . luvo__: at the end luvo__: mv blablabla . luvo__: to move the actual mod folder to mods/ BruceLee: You didn't name it . though did you BruceLee: Oh right BruceLee: You are moving it upper a directory yes BruceLee: Sorry BruceLee: Alright luvo__: yep luvo__: haha texmex: That feeling when a brand new rig with beefy GPU barely produces 60 fps in MT… xD BruceLee: One moment luvo__: you sure you are running the server with the gpu? luvo__: or client, to be specific BruceLee: No idea BruceLee: I just ran git clone https://github.com/theFox6/minetest_mod_weather.git BruceLee: okay weather is now inside /mods luvo__: cool BruceLee: I'll have to copy my world over with wget BruceLee: One moment luvo__: wait luvo__: what if you create a new world for testing BruceLee: Pointless, I'd need it to work on my old world luvo__: with a random name and it will not be modified BruceLee: I'll just put the copied world in the stock world folder on the new installation luvo__: that's the thing, it must be a problem with the name form somewhere texmex: luvo__: Me? Yes. No iGPU present. luvo__: oh... BruceLee: Question BruceLee: Am I meant to use the worlds in .minetest for this new server BruceLee: Or worlds in the directory I compiled in BruceLee: Do I have to set it in the config ? luvo__: as you compiled with run in place I guess only worls in the current ~/minetest/worlds folder BruceLee: it never made one probs coz i never started it yet luvo__: the directory you compiled BruceLee: so will just wget my worlds directory sec BruceLee: World transferred BruceLee: Now... BruceLee: load_mod_weather =true should already be config'd BruceLee: Awh shit BruceLee: I did git clone and everything as root luvo__: ooops BruceLee: Hope that doesnt give a permission error to the lower user BruceLee: will it? BruceLee: I'll delete it all and restart BruceLee: Yeah rm gave perm denied BruceLee: So probs was the issue BruceLee: Time to check BruceLee: Okay compiling now as low level user BruceLee: Extracted the stable.zip as low level, compiling as low level user BruceLee: I wonder if grabbing the old worlds might eff it up BruceLee: We'll see luvo__: check the owner of ht eold owrlds BruceLee: -rw-r--r-- BruceLee: for worlds .tar.gz BruceLee: sec sec owns it BruceLee: So it looks ok BruceLee: 93% nearly done compiling BruceLee: Subgame specified in default_game [minetest] is invalid BruceLee: luvo__, Did you get that compiling form source? luvo__: yeah luvo__: is in games minetest_game BruceLee: So do I need to put the path in it? luvo__: no no luvo__: the name BruceLee: Okies luvo__: show your games folder BruceLee: huh BruceLee: it only says minimal BruceLee: So the stable branch doesn't come with minetest_game only minimal BruceLee: but the dev branch did come with minetest_game and minimal lol luvo__: yeah, you have to clone it too luvo__: as before BruceLee: er, clone what bro? BruceLee: I only ever used clone once for the mod BruceLee: git clone https://github.com/theFox6/minetest_mod_weather.git BruceLee: Never cloned 'minetest_game' BruceLee: So I'd clone minetest_game into /games then? luvo__: yep luvo__: exactly BruceLee: And if so where do I download it then BruceLee: Links on website don't show em BruceLee: Bit stupid really ANAND: github.com/minetest/minetest_game BruceLee: See I never use github and haven't seen any documentation to point me to that BruceLee: Thanks ANAND ;) ANAND: Cheers :) BruceLee: git clone github.com/minetest/minetest_game -- Does not exist FATAL BruceLee: Must need to find out what the .git end part is luvo__: no no luvo__: add the .git BruceLee: Found it luvo__: github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git BruceLee: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git luvo__: exactl BruceLee: Yep, sec BruceLee: Okay done BruceLee: Worlds are over BruceLee: Game is compiled BruceLee: That new one is in there BruceLee: Now it should load in theory luvo__: do you own everything? BruceLee: Must do luvo__: with your user I mean luvo__: ok BruceLee: You are about to join this server with the name D for the first time if you proceed a new account usring ur creds will be created, BruceLee: Passwords do not match BruceLee: I'm guessing it wants me to configure minetest.conf luvo__: mmmm luvo__: that's your old world right? BruceLee: ah minetest.conf.example BruceLee: Yes BruceLee: But new minetest BruceLee: Imported world from another server BruceLee: Into a new minecraft BruceLee: On a new server luvo__: can you copy the minetest.conf too? BruceLee: So will have to reconfigure the .conf BruceLee: Er I suppose BruceLee: Sec BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:10:01: ERROR[Main]: Error writing configuration file: "/home/sec/minetest/new-worlds /world.mt" BruceLee: Will need to change the directory name BruceLee: map-dir = /home/sec/minetest/worlds BruceLee: Save it BruceLee: Wtf BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:11:15: ERROR[Main]: Error writing configuration file: "/home/sec/minetest/worlds/world.mt" BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:11:15: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:11:15: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Failed to initialize world BruceLee: Why the fuck not BruceLee: Might be permissions BruceLee: Wtf it lets me save to the .mt world BruceLee: But the program wont read write to it?? BruceLee: What in the actual phuck BruceLee: Seriously the dev3.0 branch is so different that a copied world just won't work with version 2.5.0 ? What a nightmare nephele: replacing a file is different to reading and writing permission in unix, anyway, calm down! :D BruceLee: What do you mean? BruceLee: I can read the file in nano BruceLee: I can write to the file in nano BruceLee: Thus the application should be able to write to it too? No? nephele: in that case it clearly is not a permission error but something else BruceLee: It's easy to say be calm but when you've spent hours on it BruceLee: Erm... BruceLee: Hrmm BruceLee: New server, new source, new compile process, imported world in, doesn't load world... nephele: yes, it is easy to say calm down, if you work on it for hours and just get more frustrated taking a break is a good thing to do, it won't run away :) luvo__: thats soo true BruceLee: Oh BruceLee: I think I know why BruceLee: It is looking in /home/sec it is meant to look into /home/anothername BruceLee: One moment luvo__: can you show a ls -l worlds//world.mt? luvo__: oops BruceLee: The part where you asked me to copy minetest.conf made my brain ignore that fact lol BruceLee: Lets see if this works BruceLee: Woot woot it loaded! BruceLee: Time to see if the mod works luvo__: what did you change? BruceLee: Nope mod doens't work BruceLee: Fuck sake it's busted BruceLee: Two servers proved it doesn't work BruceLee: Two different minetests compiled from source luvo__: can you do the following BruceLee: Throw it in the trash I give up BruceLee: Yes? luvo__: ls -l worlds//world.mt nephele: take a break, if it does not work, as in the mod, you would get an error, not it beeing disabled :D luvo__: ls -l worlds/weather/ BruceLee: Wait luvo__: *waiting* BruceLee: Why would you ever do ls -l worlds/weather it doesn't go in there lol luvo__: no no sorry luvo__: ls -l mods/weather luvo__: haha luvo__: myb luvo__: my bad BruceLee: Oh shit BruceLee: I haven't even wget'd the mod in there yet odd BruceLee: Lol BruceLee: Sec BruceLee: I'll just use git clone https://github.com/theFox6/minetest_mod_weather.git luvo__: hahahhahaha luvo__: same as before: clone, mv folder/subfolder . BruceLee: yup BruceLee: Invalid command /setweather BruceLee: Oh well guess it just doesn't work BruceLee: Oh I better check if false isn't set again luvo__: yeah luvo__: hahaha * BruceLee: kills process && makes it set to true BruceLee: I still think it will just go back to false because it's just stupid luvo__: how do you do that? luvo__: the action haha BruceLee: You just use /me luvo__: oh BruceLee: load_mod_weather = true BruceLee: Is actually there * luvo__: thats cool BruceLee: It isn't changing this time luvo__: can you check the debug.txt luvo__: file luvo__: in minetest/ folder? BruceLee: Yeah BruceLee: It just says it starts fine luvo__: no errors no warnings? BruceLee: No errors luvo__: did you changed the default_game in minetest.conf? luvo__: because it gives me this warning: 2020-05-21 15:21:39: WARNING[Main]: Mod name conflict detected: "weather" luvo__: 2020-05-21 15:21:39: WARNING[Main]: Will not load: /home/luvo/git/minetest-testing-server/bin/../games/minetest_game/mods/weather luvo__: 2020-05-21 15:21:39: WARNING[Main]: Overridden by: /home/luvo/git/minetest-testing-server/bin/../mods/weather luvo__: it seems there is a mod in minetest_game with the name weather BruceLee: so I must edit minetest.conf again BruceLee: And what line do I change again? luvo__: default_game = minetest_game luvo__: should be commented BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:24:19: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/hidden/minetest/worlds] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:24:19: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest_game" listening on 0.0.0.0:8888. BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:24:41: ACTION[Server]: D [*.*.*.*] joins game. List of players: D BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:25:23: [Main]: INFO: signal_handler(): Ctrl-C pressed, shutting down. BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:25:23: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down BruceLee: Ah okay you told me to uncomment it on the last one but ok BruceLee: One sec luvo__: ok it seems fine BruceLee: It said default_game = minetest_game BruceLee: Now I've put a comment in front of it BruceLee: Just started it up BruceLee: No errors BruceLee: Invalid command BruceLee: God damn I'm over this BruceLee: That's 3 hours work with no success period BruceLee: Two different servers BruceLee: Two different minetest versions BruceLee: If I ever setup a windows server luvo__: I had 0 problems with everything working great at the first time.. BruceLee: I can just copy the linux worlds into it right? luvo__: no idea luvo__: what world does it select? luvo__: when you launch the server? BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:29:52: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sherbet/minetest/worlds] luvo__: mmm luvo__: isn't it missing the world name? BruceLee: I think so luvo__: I got this: [/home/luvo/git/minetest-testing-server/bin/../worlds/world] BruceLee: But it only asks for the directory BruceLee: Oh BruceLee: I only copied the world into /worlds BruceLee: so it needs to go inside /worlds/world luvo__: try this ./bin/minetestserver --world ./worlds/world/ luvo__: yep BruceLee: I'm just gonna dump the world into /worlds/world Krock: *reads logs* luvo__: ok luvo__: *krock to themself* what a long log... Krock: >it auto changed it to Krock: 11:52 Back to = false Krock: shut down Minetest and Minetestserver Krock: change the value BruceLee: I have done so Krock: start Minetestserver BruceLee: Just always goes back on the old one :) BruceLee: I only ever execute minetestserver Krock: no, there was another instance running in the background BruceLee: Hrm let me go see Krock: Minetestserver does not modify that file except when you're doing backend migrations BruceLee: htop seems to say no BruceLee: 1 sec Krock: load_mod_* = v is modified by the Main Menu and manual editing BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:40:44: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sherbet/minetest/worlds] BruceLee: Shouldn't it be /home/sherbet/minetest/worlds/world luvo__: mmm still not the world name BruceLee: I'll edit minetest.conf luvo__: no no luvo__: what was your command to run server luvo__: thats the one BruceLee: map-dir = /home/sherbet/minetest/worlds BruceLee: in the .conf luvo__: mmm BruceLee: I was just using ./minetestserver luvo__: what if you do luvo__: cd ~/minetest; ./bin/minetestserver --world ./worlds/world/ luvo__: try that Krock: --wordpath BruceLee: No such file Krock: nvm, worldpath was never merged luvo__: --world should do the trick BruceLee: I'll just go to the bin folder luvo__: can you do ls worlds? BruceLee: And tell the app itself to parse that Krock: why is your minetestserver in bin/? BruceLee: wait hold on Krock: why is it in out home? luvo__: he compiled from source Krock: *is it in your BruceLee: There is minetest-stable-5 and actual another minetest folder Krock: well, did you set RUN_NI_PLACE=1? luvo__: xD BruceLee: Yes luvo__: what a mess Krock: so ar so good BruceLee: But that minetest only has worlds in it BruceLee: I'll delete that minetest folder luvo__: you may delete that folder luvo__: yeah BruceLee: No idea why that's there BruceLee: right... BruceLee: cd minetest-stable-5 BruceLee: cd bin BruceLee: ./minetestserver BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:44:39: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sherbet/minetest/worlds] BruceLee: So I must edit that in the .conf file luvo__: what the heck luvo__: hahahah luvo__: you have ~/minetest and ~/minetest-stable-5? BruceLee: No BruceLee: Just minetest-stable-5 BruceLee: I deleted ~/minetest luvo__: oh luvo__: ok Krock: naming does not matter for RUN_IN_PLACE binaries BruceLee: map-dir I've added the full path Krock: it just has to have all files in the right subdirectories luvo__: so this is the correct minetest directory right? with the bin/minetestdir and worlds and mods ? luvo__: bin/minetestserver sorry BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:46:13: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sherbet/minetest/worlds/world] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:46:13: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:8888. BruceLee: Seems to of fixed it the edit in minetest.conf luvo__: gameid=minetest mmmm luvo__: what do you have in games? Krock: minetest and minetest_game will both load the same game luvo__: oh this is the one downloaded from .zip or something like that right? luvo__: oh ok BruceLee: games folder has minetest_game && minimal BruceLee: wtf luvo__: and worlds/ and mods/ are correct? BruceLee: Why did it create another ~/minetest again stuff off and die I never put that there luvo__: uh Krock: see folder structure here: https://wiki.minetest.net/Installing_Mods BruceLee: Okay so everything should be fine in theory Krock: BruceLee: please upload the output of minetestserver --version luvo__: maybe because that bin/minetestserver is not created in run_in_place? Krock: luvo__: ninja'd BruceLee: One moment Krock BruceLee: I will pastebin it BruceLee: Krock, https://pastebin.com/7Nhddcv8 BruceLee: That is the output luvo__: oh come on whut luvo__: its run in place luvo__: it has no sense Krock: okay, at least the build params are correct luvo__: yeah xD BruceLee: That's what I'm saying BruceLee: It's like the software is broken or something BruceLee: Two different compiles from source BruceLee: Two different servers BruceLee: Same mod BruceLee: Same result BruceLee: And yet you think yours magically worked when two others didn't? BruceLee: Doesn't make no sense luvo__: you know what I would do? BruceLee: No idea luvo__: delete everything related to minetest luvo__: and clone again into ~/minetest luvo__: everything from the start BruceLee: I've already done that BruceLee: The only thing I brought over from the old install was minetest.conf && my world luvo__: but you have had like 3 folders of minetest BruceLee: It was set back to false again BruceLee: I've set it to true this time BruceLee: No errors BruceLee: Time to load it and see what happens BruceLee: Should be sweet as ! BruceLee: Invalid command? BruceLee: Are you shitting me... BruceLee: Bah I give up BruceLee: Piece of junk luvo__: what if you delete the world, delete the minetest.conf and run the minetestserver BruceLee: Ok, sec luvo__: would you like for me to try your world? BruceLee: if I delete the minetest.conf it won't work you know that right? BruceLee: I'll have to edit the example, so sec luvo__: would'nt it? luvo__: why? BruceLee: Didn't work before when the .conf wasn't there BruceLee: Unless, diff params, I'll have a look BruceLee: Renamed minetest.conf BruceLee: Will delete worlds folder BruceLee: Emptied /worlds/world folder luvo__: no problem running minetestserver without minetest.conf BruceLee: Ah it works this time BruceLee: The server did boot BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:58:19: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../worlds/world] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 15:58:19: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. Krock: > [...]/minetest-run/bin$ ./minetest --server --worldname mtg_dummy # works for me just fine BruceLee: Ah BruceLee: Can't get in BruceLee: Says I gotta enter a password BruceLee: And says Invalid pass BruceLee: So it means I need a .conf file with a pass in it Krock: no luvo__: you have a different folder of minetest now? luvo__: oh its krocks's luvo__: sorry Krock: change or wipe auth.txt BruceLee: No luvo__ lol BruceLee: Ah ok sec Krock Krock: or auth.sqlite3 if that exists Krock: or whatever else you use to keep the auth for players BruceLee: is auth.sqlite3 in the worlds folder? BruceLee: I mean I know the pass lol BruceLee: I'll have a look BruceLee: auth.sqlite found luvo__: you can delete it and create a new password in the client BruceLee: I removed auth BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:01:11: [Main]: Automatically selecting world at [/home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../worlds/world] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:01:11: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../worlds/world] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:01:11: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. Krock: looks good BruceLee: Fail BruceLee: It just says BruceLee: Same thing BruceLee: Please enter a pass Krock: yes Krock: enter a pass luvo__: you can enter a dummy pass BruceLee: Ah okay done it BruceLee: Invalid command setweather BruceLee: Yep doens't work BruceLee: My privs are insuffient luvo__: is worlds/world/world.mt mod set to true? BruceLee: Maybe that could cause it? But I doubt it luvo__: but it exists? BruceLee: Are you kidding me dude BruceLee: That got deleted like you said BruceLee: worlds/world/* ALL REMOVED luvo__: the new world Krock: who said that? luvo__: that the server created luvo__: should be there BruceLee: Oh luvo__: in worlds/world BruceLee: I'll have a look Krock: luvo__: depends. might only be written when the server closes BruceLee: Krock, -- luvo__ Told me to just delete my world and .conf because they were the only parts that had been exported into the system luvo__: oh, interesting BruceLee: Ctrl + C is how I kill it BruceLee: Let me go look BruceLee: No idea why it has made another folder called minetest again BruceLee: I'll just ignore it Krock: maybe a bug BruceLee: With the 2.5.0 stable version? Odd Krock: weird version BruceLee: It's the offical release from minetest's website lol Krock: I think you meant 5.2.0 BruceLee: Er ah yeah BruceLee: My bad it's like 2am and I've spent like 4 hours on this Krock: cannot reproduce your issue. it's 5 PM here Krock: ;) BruceLee: I've reproduced it twice on two different servers lol BruceLee: I'll put it on film tomorrow if ya like :D Krock: I think you mean "today" since it's already a new day BruceLee: Nah I consider the night still the night Krock: of the previous day BruceLee: Anyway BruceLee: That doesn't matter BruceLee: Hrmm Krock: whatever. see ya somewhen again? Maybe you can find a solution easier later BruceLee: Windows worked fine BruceLee: Linux never loads any modules Krock: things get really annoying and confusing when the brain is working at 50% and wants to shut off luvo_: no ~minetest folder created for me when running/shutting down the server BruceLee: All I seem to do is, wget the latest copy, compile it, wget the mod, extract it into /minetest/mods and copy a world over, it loads the world says no errors about the mods, but the command never works, Two servers showed me that BruceLee: And twas two different versions BruceLee: One was a dev build BruceLee: And this other one is a stable build * BruceLee: shrugs BruceLee: So when you say it works for you, I'm sorta like thinking well, that's weird as heck luvo_: xD luvo_: hahahhaha Krock: luvo_: Press Alt + F4 to unlock the hidden TicTacToe game in HexChat luvo_: xD BruceLee: You know I'm not stupid right? BruceLee: Ctrl + w might work better BruceLee: load_mod_weather is back to false nephele: Krock, but my hexchat is on desktop2 BruceLee: Even on this copy BruceLee: That was the new world it made Krock: everything fails when there's an Linux user that remaps the keybinds and Hexchat that's asking before quit BruceLee: Just HexChat asking are you sure? Is enough lol Krock: no more Alt+F4 tricking Krock: there's a checkbox to disable the dialogue, which would make it work Krock: nephele: well then Alt + Tab until it's the right window BruceLee: load_mod_weather = true BruceLee: Time to fire it up and logically it should work BruceLee: Wow BruceLee: It says BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:13:07: WARNING[Main]: Mod name conflict detected: "weather" BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:13:07: WARNING[Main]: Will not load: /home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../games/minetest_game/mods/weather BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:13:07: WARNING[Main]: Overridden by: /home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../mods/minetest_mod_weather/weather BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:13:07: WARNING[Main]: Mod name conflict detected: "weather" BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:13:07: WARNING[Main]: Will not load: /home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../mods/minetest_mod_weather/weather BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:13:07: WARNING[Main]: Overridden by: /home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../mods/weather Krock: .. Krock: issue fixed in 4 .. 3 ...2 luvo_: oooh luvo_: it works now! luvo_: it is loadint then! luvo_: right? BruceLee: Yes it works BruceLee: I just don't have any permissions haha luvo_: wohoooo BruceLee: Now... luvo_: what did you do? BruceLee: I just need to figure out what I did before... luvo_: xD luvo_: hahahha Krock: ofc he changed nothing BruceLee: I set the world to true BruceLee: And for some reason it just worked now luvo_: the world to true? luvo_: what is that magic? BruceLee: You know what I mean BruceLee: world.mt load_mod balh blah = true BruceLee: You know what I mean BruceLee: Now BruceLee: Time to go back to my other version luvo_: >minetest.conf BruceLee: And try see what it'll complain about luvo_: >world_work = true Krock: >solve_world_hunger_problems = true luvo_: this should be added to the documentation smh BruceLee: So question BruceLee: If I copy a world over BruceLee: What command do I use to load that world guys? luvo_: you can use luvo_: ./bin/minetestserver --world /path/to/the/world/folder/ Krock: ./minetestserver --worldname guys BruceLee: Krock, and it'll look in /worlds/world right? Krock: if [minetestserver bin path]/../worlds/guys/ exists, Yes. BruceLee: Okay I will copy from Server A to Server B my world and try load it Krock: if it does not work: check your directory structure with this here: https://wiki.minetest.net/Installing_Mods BruceLee: Should it be in /worlds/guys or in /worlds/world/guys ? luvo_: the first one luvo_: worlds/guys luvo_: in guys should be the world.mt file and everythingelse BruceLee: https://pastebin.com/zRH8MftL Krock: so far so good BruceLee: ./minetestserver --worldname guys BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:23:21: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/bin/../worlds/guys] BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:23:21: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. BruceLee: So lets test BruceLee: Oh ah invalid pass lol BruceLee: I'll have to delete auth agian BruceLee: Oh no wait it worked now BruceLee: Now BruceLee: Lets see if the mod works BruceLee: Invalid command WTF BruceLee: It was just working BruceLee: Why is my world not allowing it to work wtf luvo_: maybe compare world.mt form your world and guys? BruceLee: (The one that works) BruceLee: /home/sherbet/minetest-stable-5/worlds/world BruceLee: (The one that works has a file called weather in it) BruceLee: The one I just copied over does not (my old world called guys) BruceLee: All that is inside it is one line BruceLee: return {["wind"] = {["y"] = 0, ["x"] = 0, ["z"] = 0}, ["type"] = "none"} BruceLee: I'll try compare the world.mt BruceLee: Here is the working world.mt file https://pastebin.com/5zj9HAaq luvo_: you can remove that file luvo_: the weather file I mean luvo_: I guess is some kind of default or something BruceLee: YEY! luvo_: what BruceLee: I think I made it work now! luvo_: wohoo luvo_: nice! luvo_: everything cool now? BruceLee: Erm BruceLee: The command does not return anything BruceLee: Like /setweather works BruceLee: But nothing happens lol BruceLee: Did urs work? luvo_: what are you using luvo_: yes it did work luvo_: show me the command luvo_: the setweather command complete BruceLee: I type /setweather rain luvo_: try /setweather without anything else luvo_: or write /help setweather BruceLee: Says available weather types BruceLee: none, BruceLee: weather:snow luvo_: you need the weather:rain luvo_: yep BruceLee: Oh BruceLee: So it must be luvo_: you need the weather: too BruceLee: So I must do /setweather weather:rain ? luvo_: exactly BruceLee: His documentation is wrong then hahaha BruceLee: Let me try BruceLee: YAY! BruceLee: It works :D FK YEAH luvo_: the documentation is outdated I think BruceLee: Cheers boys luvo_: yeeeaaah luvo_: congrats man BruceLee: Thank fudge BruceLee: That was like... BruceLee: 4 or 5 hours lol BruceLee: Thanks heaps guys! luvo_: you can sleep peacefully now luvo_: np man BruceLee: Hard BruceLee: One last thing though BruceLee: I downloaded a mod right BruceLee: And it said BruceLee: The name is invalid upon loading or what not BruceLee: Found out BruceLee: You can't have . in the mods folder name BruceLee: but I never could actually figure out what the mod should be called BruceLee: One sec luvo_: oh hyou had the name? luvo_: you had .weather or something like that? BruceLee: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=629 BruceLee: [Modpack] Animals Modpack [2.5] -- 2.6 approaching BruceLee: Extracted it says animals_modpack-2.5.0 BruceLee: If I try load a mod called that luvo_: that's a modpack, I think it should be moved directly to mods/animals+modpack-2.5.0 BruceLee: It'll say we only support [0-9][a-z] BruceLee: Or something like that BruceLee: and wont load the mod luvo_: change the folder name BruceLee: To anything?? BruceLee: Will that work? luvo_: to animals luvo_: for example luvo_: wait a sec BruceLee: Ok BruceLee: I'll kill the server... Update the world.mt to animals, and change the folder to animals, re-start the server, and should work yep? luvo_: ok! luvo_: try luvo_: never installed a modpack though BruceLee: Server is killed BruceLee: load_mod_animals = true BruceLee: world.mt saved BruceLee: Time to boot er up BruceLee: 2020-05-21 16:41:14: ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "animals" BruceLee: sherbet@localhost: minetest-stable-5$ls mods BruceLee: animals animals_modpack-2.5.0.zip minetest_mod_weather mods_here.txt weather BruceLee: sherbet@localhost: minetest-stable-5$ BruceLee: even though 'animals' is clearly there luvo_: checkout https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/basics/getting_started.html#mod-packs luvo_: the thing is, animals is not a mod. it is a modpack BruceLee: On windows I remember just slamming it in there, and it worked BruceLee: Hrmmm BruceLee: Maybe it was a diff mod then BruceLee: I'll look for animals mod luvo_: and it seems it doesn't have the modpack.lua luvo_: create that one inside the animals folder luvo_: and then create a pastebin with ls mods/animals please BruceLee: So create modpack.lua and leave it blank BruceLee: I'll pastebin the ls now luvo_: yeah BruceLee: https://pastebin.com/U055whG0 BruceLee: There you go luvo_ :) luvo_: ok, try it! luvo_: and lets see BruceLee: Could not be found 'animals' BruceLee: Dunno why it hasn't been deleted off the minetest website if it doesn't work BruceLee: But that thing you said about a modpack might work diff than a mod BruceLee: I had that mod on windows though, just copied it into 'Mods' Enabled it in the gui and boom BruceLee: Linux just seems to ignore it and be like nah bro it aint there lol luvo_: mmmm luvo_: maybe you used a different version in windows luvo_: and this mod seems outdated sins 2018... luvo_: so maybe the modpack.txt where there for previous versions BruceLee: Both versions were 5.2.0 luvo_: oh really? luvo_: mmmm BruceLee: Yar BruceLee: Well you've all been amazing, much love, thanks everyone for your patience BruceLee: I really appreciate it luvo_: no problem :) BruceLee: I'll come back tomorrow when I can't fix this animals mod BruceLee: And I'll try get some animals in there luvo_: hahahha BruceLee: Coz my gf loves em and wants em in there lol luvo_: ok! BruceLee: I did it once on Windows so now it means I gotta make it work on linux or else lolol BruceLee: Night guys! :) Thanks luvo_: night! BruceLee: Since I have no minetest.conf BruceLee: How do I set the port it listens on? luvo: your sleep good? luvo: hahaha BruceLee: It's the last piece I need lol BruceLee: For tonight luvo: you can copy the example to minetest.conf BruceLee: Maybe just try copy the example BruceLee: Okies luvo: and modify only the port luvo: yep BruceLee: Cheers luvo: you should modify also the name to your admin user in the server luvo: to be able to give/remove people privileges luvo: ir is that on the world config? don't know atm BruceLee: Yeah I'm gonna do that now BruceLee: It's in the .conf BruceLee: Woot woot it worked BruceLee: Thanks mate BruceLee: Night night luvo: night night! BruceLee: Erm BruceLee: I set the admin nick to D BruceLee: Joined as D BruceLee: Still says I have insufficient priv o_O BruceLee: But I know its reading minetest.conf coz the port changed luvo: do this luvo: write /admin luvo: and tell me the outout BruceLee: I put three admin names in tho BruceLee: It might be why luvo: output* BruceLee: In the game? BruceLee: the guys folder magically moved to the bin folder too BruceLee: Lol weird luvo: wth luvo: yeah in the game BruceLee: sherbet@localhost: bin$ls BruceLee: guys minetest minetestserver BruceLee: sherbet@localhost: bin$pwd BruceLee: sherbet@localhost: bin$ luvo: weird BruceLee: sherbet@localhost: bin$ls ../worlds BruceLee: guys world BruceLee: sherbet@localhost: bin$ BruceLee: Yeah weird as BruceLee: Must be stable 2.5.0 has a bug or something BruceLee: Sec luvo: didn't happen to me... luvo: haha BruceLee: The admin of this server is D luvo: ok so now use BruceLee: Oh now it works BruceLee: Odd BruceLee: I changed it from 3 nicks to just 1 BruceLee: Meh lol luvo: BruceLee, /grantme BruceLee: Must of only liked 1 admin BruceLee: I did /grant D all BruceLee: But I guess /grantme all BruceLee: Might work too BruceLee: Haha night man! luvo: hahahaha luvo: night man Krock: BruceLee: your minetest.conf has the following line: "name = D" BruceLee: yup BruceLee: It works now Krock BruceLee: I just couldnt get the animals-modpack to work BruceLee: Syas animals not found appguru: you guys are going to like where #9907 is going ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9907 -- Shaders as media files by appgurueu BruceLee: But I will ask for help tomorrow ;) BruceLee: Thank u all so much -- Just had to say it coz u guys deserve it -- So much thanks! :D -- Ok I really am going now night lol SX: hello everyone, simple question: is there callbacks available in core or default minetest game when wielded item changes? didnt find anything from API reference but thought that I ask here as sometimes correct thing is hard to find yrungr: i'm aware of using lua to manipulate the blocks in the map, but has anyone heard of command line tools that interact with the map.sqlite directly? yrungr: https://github.com/random-geek/MapEdit aha yrungr: ok. this looks fun. :) rschulman: What do people think is the "best" mapgen algorithm? Krock: rschulman: singlenode Krock: infinite potential for Lua mapgens rschulman: :) Emerald2: Bruh. What was BruceLee's issue in the end? oil_boi: I will break the silence: doing get_bone_position breaks the model * texmex: discovers multiple new video uploads from oil_boi o/ NetherEran: oh sweet blaise: woo, sexy blaise: finally blaise: kvirc is nice and all blaise: but.. sometimes I just want irssi in a tmux session...... sagax: why `place_node` so slow? sagax: i place `dirt` 100x100x100 size, and it's was be slow Zughy: Hey guys. I was trying to set a custom texture pack for my server but it apparently doesn't load. Am I getting something wrong? https://i.imgur.com/54clG2L.png Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: !tell Miniontoby hello MinetestBot: You can tell that to yourself texmex: sagax: iirc this function simulates the player placing each node. Try using set_node! sagax: thanks Miniontoby: !tell tester_1234 hello MinetestBot: Miniontoby: I'll pass that on when tester_1234 is around tester_1234: hey MinetestBot: tester_1234: May-20 12:54 UTC hello Miniontoby: sfan5: I have an php ircbot and it can save msgs (by typing !tell), but I now want that if one of the users for who it is get noticed to do !read (that is my way to read it) yrungr: http://mine.grue.world/map.png < i've got a render of my world and we've noticed something very strange. a friend went off exploring and everything was very rocky. if you look at the render you can see where there are rock blocks right next to forest blocks, with sharp changes. yrungr: i recently migrated to a new server and i'm wondering if i did something wrong, because this started happening after the move. yrungr: i rsynced all of the files from worlds/world. Miniontoby: what is the question? sfan5: yrungr: do you have any mods beyond minetest_game? yrungr: mineclone2. sfan5: ah uh Miniontoby: that is an game not mod yrungr: yep. sfan5: then the colors.txt file you have is not complete Miniontoby: what server name sfan5: minetestmapper probably printed the nodes it was missing yrungr: mine.grue.world. Miniontoby: !server address:mine.grue.world MinetestBot: Miniontoby: No results yrungr: sfan5: the problem is that the areas are actually rocky like that. Miniontoby: !server address:mine.grue.world. MinetestBot: Miniontoby: No results Miniontoby: !server name:mine.grue.world MinetestBot: Miniontoby: No results sfan5: yrungr: sounds like a bug in world generation then, I suggest asking Wuzzy about it yrungr: ok. thanks sfan5. Wuzzy: hi Miniontoby: maybe try mapserver (made by BuckarooBanzai) Wuzzy: I'm not a mapgen person lol Miniontoby: sfan5: I have an php ircbot and it can save msgs (by typing !tell), but I now want that if one of the users for who it is get noticed to do !read (that is my way to read it) sfan5: Miniontoby: ok and? yrungr: hi wuzzy. having a weird bug with a mineclone2 server. i recently migrated it and my friend went exploring. the new generated parts are barren rock. Miniontoby: idk how to do that yrungr: Wuzzy: you've not heard of this error before? Miniontoby: I want my bot to tell the user that he got an saved msg and that he need to type !read yrungr: Wuzzy: http://mine.grue.world/map.png < you can see how the loop on the left is all barren rock and it's a sudden transition from forest to rock. sfan5: well I can't help you with general PHP programming Miniontoby: ok yrungr: i recently updated and rebuilt the minetest engine, so i'm wondering if something changed to cause this mapgen weirdness. Miniontoby: MinetestBot can do the thing I want a kind of but it is programmed in python sfan5: Zughy: pretty sure /usr/games/minetest/textures/server is supposed to contain the "raw" .png files and not some folder structure sfan5: I also can't find any reference to texture_pack.conf in the documentation Miniontoby: why not try https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21999 sfan5: sagax: look into the "VoxelManip" section in lua_api.txt if you want to set a large amount of nodes at once yrungr: sfan5: have you heard of anyone having mapgen weirdness with recent builds of minetest stable? sfan5: I haven't yrungr: hmm. * yrungr: signs up for the minetest forum. NetherEran: https://0x0.st/i9OZ.webm making liquids fall is kind of interesting yrungr: sfan5: ah, i just found that my git repo is pulling from master, not stable. -_- yrungr: git checkout stable-5 sfan5: might be good to know though that 5.3 is about to break MCL2 yrungr: yeah. luvo: sfan5, do you guys have some roadmap or changelog up to date with the more noticeable changes? sfan5: changelog yes, but it's not up-to-date sfan5: !dev Changelog MinetestBot: "Note that not all changes made to the code between releases are listed here." - http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog luvo: thx! sagax: sfan5: thanks Zughy: Second attempt: I was trying to set a custom texture pack for my server but it apparently doesn't load. Am I getting something wrong? https://i.imgur.com/54clG2L.png sfan5: Zughy: pretty sure /usr/games/minetest/textures/server is supposed to contain the "raw" .png files and not some folder structure Zughy: So I should simply put every texture in the very server folder without any hierarchy? sfan5: try and see if that works yes Zughy: ty Calinou: I thought subfolders were supported in texture packs since 5.0 Zughy: it still doesn't work MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: CSM: Fix crashing minetest.get_item_def() 13732c800 https://git.io/JfgYF (152020-05-20T18:15:09Z) appguru: #9828 - please merge or close ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9828 -- Revert "Replace non-ASCII characters in gameui debug display code" by appgurueu Extex: appguru: is postprocessing customizable via the server? appguru: not yet Extex: Ah appguru: but as it has been requested by KGM as well, I've been working on it Extex: Ok appguru: Idea is basically that shaders are sent as media Extex: First step towards moddable graphics Extex: Yay ANAND: appguru: That's an interesting idea MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Stop wasting memory on identical textures when texture filtering is d… 13c47a680 https://git.io/Jfgct (152020-05-20T20:55:51Z) appguru: I'm going to close #9902 if no one protests ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9902 -- ItemStack convenience by appgurueu MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow more than 255 biomes, document new maximum (#9855) 1342fcfb7 https://git.io/Jfgcd (152020-05-20T21:16:14Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Cache liquid alternative IDs (#8053) 1382e4137 https://git.io/JfgCX (152020-05-20T21:52:10Z) sagax: https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.override_item sagax: how to override in v5? sagax: 0.5 sagax: hm, no, version 5 lmat: Dude, it's sneak click!! hoodedice: hey guys, trying to compile minetest from source on *buntu hoodedice: I want to know what files I'm supposed to point to in the CMAKE options hoodedice: for postgres, leveldb, redis, luajit hoodedice: hello MinetestBot MinetestBot: Hi hoodedice. hoodedice: !seen sfan5 MinetestBot: hoodedice: sfan5 was last seen at 2020-05-18 22:54:22 UTC on #minetest norkle: sub back up! sagax: hi all! sagax: what i can read about - build some block in some place with api of minetest? ANAND: sagax: minetest.place_node and/or minetest.set_node might be just the API methods you need ANAND: ~api place_node ANAND: !api place_node MinetestBot: place_node, someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt ANAND: oh ANAND: -_- sagax: thanks sagax: minetest based on libGL? sagax: found sagax: >> Irrlicht hoodedice: sagax the newest meme is that minetest devs have forked irrlicht because that project is likely abandoned hoodedice: :^) hanetzer: sdl2 port wen ;P hoodedice: godot port wen hoodedice: https://gist.github.com/hoodedice/449d6ecd4c4387e28b959d4efa540d3a hoodedice: make[2]: *** No rule to make target '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libluajit.so', needed by 'bin/minetest'. Stop. hoodedice: what am I doing wrong hoodedice: nvm wrong file hoodedice: sfan5! sfan5: hoodedice! sfan5: long time no see hoodedice: same ;) hoodedice: I popped on github yesterday and saw that minetest forked irrlicht hoodedice: that was meme material to me so I decided to see what's new sfan5: the irrlicht fork thing hasn't fully happened yet but is about to nephele: is upstream dead or something? sfan5: the last major release is from November 2012, the last patch release from 2016 sfan5: so yes you could say that nephele: Well, then i wonder if minetest will just incorporate irrlicht as a fork for a greater mt engine, or maintain it seperately :P Emerald2: Does it make you twitch when people pronounce it like 'ur-licked'? XD yrungr: hi. i'm thinking about getting an intel nuc and one of the things i'd be using it for would be playing minetest. would the core i3 processor be powerful enough? or should i go for i5 or i7? texmex: yrungr: Frequency is more important than the number of cores in case of MT, iirc. ANAND: Yeah. MT mainly uses one core for all the server-side stuff (including mods), and one for mapgen. ANAND: Those are the two primary threads, AFAIK. ANAND: Recently, there have been some changes that allows servers to use more than one mapgen thread if necessary, though yrungr: good to know, thanks. Ingar: more important Ingar: does the NUCs video handle MT ? Ingar: (I still refuse to call anything intel has "graphics") yrungr: :) Ingar: yrungr: I have a 2017 NUC at home (I think an i5, not sure). I can test in a few hours if you want yrungr: some of the nucs have a pcie graphics card slot, so i could stick a decent card in there. yrungr: Ingar: that would be great if you could do that. :) Ingar: I should be home in about 3hrs yrungr: :) Ingar: (yeah not everybody is locked up at home ;) yrungr: i'm locked up at home, but i got a remote dev job just before the lockdown happened, so it was kinda what i was planning anyway. yrungr: i miss visiting friends and family, but working from home is what i wanted. ANAND: Ingar: Most modern Intel HD Graphics should handle MT just fine, unless you want a viewing range of 200+ :) yrungr: ANAND: good to know, thanks for that. Ingar: ANAND: the raspberry pi4 only does about 20fps ;) Ingar: haven't used intel video in ages so I have no clue ANAND: It's an ARM cpu, and it doesn't have the latest and greatest Intel HD Graphics :P yrungr: yeah, i was tempted by a pi4, but it's not good enough. Emerald2: Pretty sure one of the devs (who I don't want to ping) has played minetest on an intel NUC. ANAND: 5fan? :P Emerald2: No. ANAND: Ok ANAND: Bc he's the one you've been pinging the last couple of days ;) Emerald2: Yeah I dragged somebody in here to get help with their pi issue and he's the one who helped. Emerald2: And then he saved the day the next day, too. ANAND: Yeah, I saw ANAND: Forgot to mention: I'm currently running MT on an i3-8150U; I don't think a NUC's iGPU would be any worse. Ingar: ANAND: most likely in the same ballpark ANAND: Yeah, that's what I think ANAND: The NUCs with i5s and i7s are probably even more powerful iGPU-wise ANAND: I get 60 FPS very consistently, using the default MTG 16x textures. Ingar: I got the NUC7i5BNK apparently Ingar: it has an i5-7260U ANAND: Interesting. How's the speed? Given its tiny form-factor, does it reach 3GHz? ANAND: Also forgot to mention: I don't use any shaders (not even the "basic" ones). Ingar: ANAND: I do not use it myself (it's my mom's desktop). as such I don't have many gaming benchmerks to show Ingar: as a desktop it is quite snappy though Ingar: even with more intensive applications ANAND: That's impressive sagax: how to change texture dynamically? ANAND: sagax: There's no straightforward way to do that at the moment. Your best bet is to register multiple items, each with a different texture. sagax: hm, ok texmex: sagax: no can do sagax: i can register items dynamically? sfan5: animating textures is possible, if that's what you're looking for sagax: hm, not all what i want sagax: but animation interested to sagax: too* ANAND: sagax: Items can't be registered dynamically - they need to be sent to the client when first connecting. sagax: hm sagax: don't see what size (px) can be for textures, https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/textures/ ANAND: You can use any size you want ANAND: Preferably a power of 2 ANAND: e.g. 16x, 32x, 64x, 128x, etc. Quiark: is it frowned upon to play with texture filtering enabled? ANAND: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ANAND: Never used it myself oil_boi: Can we make games use custom fonts yet? appguru: oil_boi: How so? appguru: That would require a change of the media process. oil_boi: I dunno, like putting a ttf font in the game directory or something and then the clients use that instead of default system font Flam0re: https://hatebin.com/ziagtkntsh does this look right? texmex: oil_boi: You’ve reached #5105 ! ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5105 -- Custom font for subgame (set font path from API) oil_boi: I must use the search function :L Flam0re: I'm currently lookin for help, does this https://hatebin.com/ziagtkntsh look like proper port forwarding? nephele: oh hi oil_boi :) oil_boi: Hey hey nephele: costum fixed size font as pngs for gui rendering hehe sfan5: oil_boi: alternative suggestion to what should happen if you cut down a tree https://0x0.st/i9ug.mp4 :D oil_boi: Hahaha, that's awesome! oil_boi: Ah man I might actually have to put that in, I gotta figure out a way to extract the data from the schematic and auto detect it when you cut down a tree so it doesn't go berserk and cut down everything though :D sfan5: you could not count leaves that are further than the leafdecay distance (if you have that) from the trunk oil_boi: Ooo yes that's actually a great idea oil_boi: Currently though: overhauling drowning and making health not regenerate when you are drowning oil_boi: Oh no, punch() direction seems to have no effect when player:punch(player) ANAND: oil_boi: What are you trying to do, that requires that code? :P sfan5: you might be missing a few arguments there oil_boi: Well the actual code is https://hatebin.com/bjdycusgyk sfan5: looks correct to me Krock: punch dir should be normalized vector IIRC oil_boi: it still happens with vector.new(0,-1,0) :L * Krock: refers to ANAND's question oil_boi: Krock, https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/new_functions/init.lua#L290 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Add ability to scale HUD text (#9814) 137d3972a https://git.io/Jfzmf (152020-05-19T17:10:39Z) Krock: player punching themselves is that even valid? Calinou: Quiark: no, but texture filtering will probably look bad with texture packs below 256×256 Calinou: (and even then, 256×256 with filtering on looks just "ok" in my experience) oil_boi: Krock, it is but it acts weird ANAND: oil_boi: Why punch specifically? Wouldn't set_hp fit your use-case? oil_boi: ANAND, you don't seem to get the damage effect like fall damage with set_hp, but I will double check Krock: if damage occurs, the screen will flash. if it doesn't flash, then you weren't hurt oil_boi: Oooh, now it's working, what the ANAND: Yeah, that's what I thought Krock: oil_boi: missing groupcaps oil_boi: Krock, no set_hp:(hp-1) is working now, I am probably just doing too many things at once, oops ANAND: Ah yes, I was wondering what was amiss in the punch call. oil_boi: Yepyep ANAND, trying to work with 400-800 length files will make your head spin if you don't take a break hahaha ANAND: Take a break then :P oil_boi: Good idea! ANAND: lol :) hoodedice: hey Calinou Calinou: hi, long time no see! hoodedice: Calinou, what do you think about porting minetest to godot :^) nephele: oil_boi, or split your files up :D Calinou: hoodedice: some people wanted to, but I don't think it's a few idea Calinou: good idea* oil_boi: nephele, if I do that I'll have like 50 files per mod :O MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rework functionality of leveled nodes (#9852) 13c94d378 https://git.io/Jfz3x (152020-05-19T19:08:37Z) appguru: #9895 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9895 -- Second rendering stage by appgurueu nephele: oil_boi, hmm, i should check how many files i have... but then i also split up gameplay parts into severall mods :P xdeadbeef: hey, complete minetest novice looking for some pointers. Trying to run a simple server and try out some games. Started with voxelgarden however it won't start due to a mod error. xdeadbeef: I noticed the game has mods in the game directory. Do I need to install the mods system wide or are games generally a self contained package? nephele: You do not need to install them system wide, dropping them in the games/ dir is fine, if you see them in the main menu it should be correct nephele: as for the error, do post it (preferably on a pastebin like termbin or something) xdeadbeef: ok thanks. It's running on a linux server and I'm connecting via a client and trying to setup something which will keep running (clients can connect / disconnect) rubenwardy: a game contains a collection of mods, you should keep it there xdeadbeef: perfect, thanks xdeadbeef: here: https://pastebin.com/aiUX4d5L rubenwardy: try replacing those `false` with `0` xdeadbeef: ok, I'll have a go. Just seems odd, with a 'stable' branch of something :) rubenwardy: that error only happens in 5.3.0-dev of Minetest, we'll probably need to change it to a warning rather than an exception nephele: the checks for such stuff have been getting more strict recently afaik, so it may have just been an oversight that wasn't seen xdeadbeef: I'll try pulling minetest_game too and check it works. If I've just picked a buggy project for my introduction, just a bad choice nephele: rubenwardy, huh, isn't there a setting to say whether it warns or errors out for api missuse? rubenwardy: only applies to depreactions sfan5: should probably apply here too, though rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: the default should be changed to `log` imo rubenwardy: not many modders will change that setting, I didn't know the default _wasn't_ log until recently nephele: I always have that thing set to error explicitly nephele: ever since i discovered it, that is xdeadbeef: fyi, it's using minetest binary include in ubuntu:18.04 rubenwardy: What version is reported? rubenwardy: it'll be in the window title xdeadbeef: not on the server ;) xdeadbeef: I'll check.... 1 sec rubenwardy: oh rubenwardy: well, minetestserver --version or apt show minetestserver nephele: would be nice if the documentation said what the format is of mod.conf instead of only saying "key value pairs" rubenwardy: it's the same as minetest.conf nephele: well, the doc does not say :) nephele: and i wouldn't think to look into a config file to find out how to even set my dependencies nephele: had to use mod.conf for csm recently, quite unpleasent to have to do trial and error till it somehow works sfan5: you're thinking mods.conf sfan5: which is the same format as world.mt, though that's probably not documented anywhere nephele: oh, that one is also not nice to use nephele: csm does not allow depends.txt though nephele: so i have to use the other one sfan5: uh sfan5: if you really mean mod.conf then I am very sure that it is documented nephele: client_lua_api.txt: "An (optional) settings file that provides meta information about the mod.", lua_api.txt: "A `Settings` file that provides meta information about the mod." nephele: below that it has some keys in each file nephele: but no mention of what the actuall syntax is of the file sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L6425 xdeadbeef: heh, someone deserves a prize! Minetest 5.3.0-dev (Linux) nephele: sfan5, the doc does not mention that that section applies to that config anywhere, and the interface below it is also irrelevant to the format nephele: anyway, adding a link "format like minetest.conf (section 'Settings') would be fine i think sfan5: it says "A `Settings` file" and I have linked you the section named `Settings` nephele: client_lua_api definetely does not have those qoutes, and It is unobvious to me that they should have meaning nephele: Specially since the entire settings class does not apply, it isn't settings and the only thing they share is the format sfan5: that's not entirely correct sfan5: when you say "it isn't settings" you probably mean that is isn't the global minetest.settings nephele: No, i mean it isn't settings sfan5: but you can use the Settings class to read mod.conf just fine and so it *is* settings sfan5: (in fact that is the way it should be read, because it is a file in the format settings understands) nephele: dependencies and such for instance are immutable data only read at runtime that cannot change during a mods lifetime nephele: i don't see why you would ever do that though? nephele: read it from a mod, i mean# nephele: i would totally expect the filesystem permissions to flat out deny that sfan5: you want a mod to not be able to read its own files? sfan5: (also nobody said that you have to use Settings to write it) nephele: I just don't see why it should ever read mod.conf really sfan5: there is no need sfan5: my point is just that mod.conf is exactly the format that the Settings class understands nephele: Okay, but that still does not make it settings imo nephele: anyway, if you think those qoutes should be enough to understand the intent and i just missread it you can add them to client_lua_api i guess :) sfan5: the documentation can certainly use improvement nephele: Personally i would go full html and use section links etc. but i don't know if that is liked, some people really want plaintext... even if html is quite suited for exactly that task xdeadbeef: actually, I just realised I'm building it from: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/archive/master.tar.gz xdeadbeef: sorry, it was a late night (-: xdeadbeef: (just to correct, it's not a stock version with that ubuntu release) xdeadbeef: excellent, simple fix on the lua (false / 0) did the trick, thank you xdeadbeef: I'll look to add a merge request back on the source with the fix jas_: is that all? misspapaya: I'm running a server and somehow sharks disappeared misspapaya: Where can I start debugging? misspapaya: sorry not debugging. Troubleshooting. Emerald2: Did you update anything before they disappeared? And which mod is adding them? misspapaya: I added advtrains and restarted the server misspapaya: oh and I disabled wolves Emerald2: Which mod are the sharks and wolves from? misspapaya: Wolves were their own mod and I'm not sure where sharks came from Emerald2: Which mobs mods are on your server? misspapaya: mobs, mobs_monster, water_life, mobkit, mobs_animal Emerald2: water_life has sharks Emerald2: Anything in debug.txt ? misspapaya: I don't see anything misspapaya: oh ERROR[Main]: mod "water_life" has unsatisfied dependencies: "mobkit" misspapaya: gotta see what instance that came from Emerald2: Aha! misspapaya: I erased teh file and restarted the server. so far I haven't seen the error again. Will come back after I go looking for sharks Emerald2: You have so many mods on there. Emerald2: Though a lot of them are parts of homedecor and mesecons... misspapaya: I just clicked mods that looked fun without thinking much Emerald2: The server has sharks now. misspapaya: that was weird Emerald2: lol Emerald2: Hazard with carts. Getting stuck inside other people also in carts. misspapaya: ah misspapaya: Emerald2: I put in trains where the mine carts were Emerald2: Crikey. OK nice. jas_: Shara: hello, i've asked rubenwardy and vanessae for voice on hub, but i've still not been added to the autovoice list. i've just restarted my computer and i'd like to get voice again, thanks jas_: does anyone know who maintains the list of people allowed to speak on #minetest-hub? jas_: celeron55: hi texmex: oil_boi: Chip’s Challenge. Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long, long time. Flam0re: Anyone knows where minetest.conf (the server one) is on FreeBSD? Miniontoby: in the folder of mt Miniontoby: where also the bin, worlds, games, mods and the other folders are Flam0re: In my case there is only worlds and debug.txt Miniontoby: worlds and debug Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: give the run cmd Flam0re: like the way i use to run minetest server right? Miniontoby: yes Flam0re: 'minetestserver' Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: make in the folder where the worlds and the debug.txt is an minetest.conf Miniontoby: if it doesn´t get used the first time Miniontoby: do ¨minetestserver --config /dir/to/minetest.conf¨ Flam0re: should the text of minetest.conf i created change? Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: https://pastebin.debian.net Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: http://paste.debian.net/ Miniontoby: here Miniontoby: add your minetest.conf Miniontoby: and give link Flam0re: I already said i got no minetest.conf, i created one with just a comment to see Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: wait sfan5: minetest can decide to write to your minetest.conf if the settings have changed during runtime Miniontoby: let me make one Miniontoby: plz answer the questions Miniontoby: 1: What is the name of the server Flam0re: I mean you can give me filled with just random things so i can change it Miniontoby: I will create one Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: but I need the info Flam0re: 1. "Just a random server" Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: 2: serveraddress Flam0re: comment it out Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: 3: server_description sfan5: if you want to see where the config would ordinarily be, run the server with --verbose sfan5: it will print a path with "Detected user path:", minetest.conf is searched for in that folder Miniontoby: I need the info Miniontoby: give your ingame name Miniontoby: 4: give your ingame name Miniontoby: I need it Flam0re: Uh the printing goes too fast and debug.txt didn't save anything from --verbose Miniontoby: 4: give your ingame name ANAND: Flam0re: Maybe redirect the output to a file? ANAND: minetest --verbose > verbose_output.txt Miniontoby: minetestserver --verbose > log.txt Miniontoby: maybe Miniontoby: Flam0re is your nickname Flam0re Flam0re: no Miniontoby: 4: give your ingame name Miniontoby: I need it Flam0re: I can do it myself Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: http://paste.debian.net/1147427/ Miniontoby: here Miniontoby: you can download and edit it Flam0re: --verbose > verbose.txt wrote 0 lines Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: here Miniontoby: http://paste.debian.net/1147427/ Miniontoby: you can download and edit it Miniontoby: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md Miniontoby: !title http://paste.debian.net/1147427/ MinetestBot: Miniontoby: debian Pastezone Flam0re: I feel like the FreeBSD binary of minetest/minetestserver might be broken or something sfan5: Flam0re: try minetestserver --verbose --worldlist "" sfan5: should print 10 lines at most Flam0re: The config doesn't seem to be in system-wide path Flam0re: nor in user-path Miniontoby: http://paste.debian.net/1147427/ Flam0re: Can you not kthx sfan5: that's where it searches for the file, doesn't need to mean there is one already Flam0re: I might just install minetestserver on other machine and copy the default config sfan5: the default configuration is an empty file ANAND: ^ sfan5: unless you're looking for the documentation which is named minetest.conf.example and probably somewhere in /usr/share ANAND: If you already have a config with some server-specific settings and MT doesn't detect it, you can use the --config command-line switch to explicitly read from the specified config Daisae: Is there a command to see what version of the game (not engine) is running? I need to know for tests. Emerald2: On linux or? Daisae: yes. I am hoping that there is a better way than using strace Emerald2: minetest --version Daisae: and the version which is loaded is going to be the one under STATIC_SHAREDIR ? Daisae: and not possible from elsewhere, such as under /usr/local/share ? Emerald2: Don't know. It'd be whichever version you have installed. Maybe I'm not understanding exactly what you're wanting here. Daisae: I have multiple versions of the engine and game installed. Daisae: I can see which version of the engine is running from the Credits tab when the engine starts or from the first line of minetest --version. Daisae: How do I see which version of the game is running? One version is under /usr/share and another under /usr/local/share . Emerald2: I just assumed it had the same version as the engine. *shrug* Emerald2: perhaps one of the devs will come along with better info than that soon sfan5: if you run minetest --verbose it will also print the share path, the game it uses will be $path_share/games/minetest_game Emerald2: sfan to the rescue again ;) Daisae: Thanks. I take it that is the value of STATIC_SHAREDIR Daisae: oops Daisae: 'Detected share path' Daisae: -- which in my cases are the same as STATIC_SHAREDIR Flam0re: yikes `servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Couldn't connect to server) (response code 0)` Flam0re: Anyone who ran a FreeBSD minetest server knows how to port forward? Flam0re: i've port forwarded in the router but it seems freebsd doesn't allow it pi_____: Anyone knows how to port forward on FreeBsd? it seems that just port forwarding on the router isn't enough for a minetest server sfan5: did you check the firwall rules? pi_____: I didn't install a firewall but it might be enabled by default pi_____: Would it be enought to just do "firewall_enable="no""? sfan5: I don't use freebsd so I can't tell you sfan5: why not give it a try? pi_____: I tried firewall_enable="no" and firewall_type="open" pi_____: nothing worked, pi_____: Can it be because i have 2 routers bridging? do i have to port forward on both then? sfan5: typically not sfan5: the router that is in bridge mode will just pass packets through, the one that isn't then has the actual firewall where you need to do forwarding pi_____: Really strange that is. pi_____: The firewall in the server really is disabled pi_____: Here is the port forwarding data i used in my router https://hatebin.com/cjzvrcrmgn jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: BingFengLanYe Minetest | 45.195.155.59 | Clients: 0/15, 0/1 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest | Ping: 209ms jas_: !mod jas_: !bye lmat: Do carts sort of suck? sfan5: perhaps lmat: I'm installing some tracks down to my mine...it's a little rough. Are there tricks that I'm not getting? baggy: hi Krock: lmat: at fast speeds consider increasing this value: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/carts/init.lua#L16 Krock: it becomes important when the server step is larger than one travelled node Krock: in singleplayer that won't be a problem. if you're getting stutters there, it might be due to mapblock loading or client-server sync weirdness sfan5: couldn't it determine that automatically? sfan5: also: unrelated but I've heard that shift-clicking carts is confusing to some players, punching to pick up might be more intuitive (then movement could be replaced with WASD) Krock: it already does that. 3 is the hard limit sfan5: Krock: from the dedicated_server_step value I mean Krock: it uses velocity * dtime to calculate the travelled distance, and optimally that's <1m Krock: dtime is kinda the server step so yes.. lmat: Ah, that's how I pick up the cart. lmat: Sometimes it gets going the wrong way and my track is very long, so I would like to stop it. Now I can just pick it up ^_^ lmat: oh crap, there it goes lmat: Yes, punching the cart is total crap. Most of the time I can't even punch it because it's wiggling around so much. WASD would be *much* better. Krock: D = handbrake on Krock: A/S = rail switching lmat: Krock: Is that current or proposed? sfan5: current apparently sfan5: no idea what a/s does though WereWolf2: hello lmat: whoa, this is busted. lmat: I'm in a cart and someone else is in a cart. Our carts are on top of each other at the end of aline. lmat: Neither of us can do anything. When we click (to try to punch the cart), we just hit the other guy. When we right-click (to try to exit the cart), we right click the other guy so we don't exit the cart. lmat: When I type '/home' to try to go home, I don't go home (presumeably because I'm in a cart). lmat: I exited the game, so now we're cool. lmat: How do I pick up the cart? lmat: I thought Shift+punch did it, but now I can't pick it up. sfan5: lmat: try entering it first, then exiting again lmat: sfan5: Okay. I've tried a lot, but I'll try that specifically. lmat: sfan5: Okay, I'm in the cart and out of the cart, shift click and click do the same thing MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add missing sao->isGone() checks 130fc51db https://git.io/JfuqW (152020-05-18T21:23:25Z) sagax: hi all! sagax: how to show parameters of mods with console in game? sagax: /mods can show list of modules sfan5: parameters as in configuration settings? sagax: yes, params of module sagax: and sagax: how to place some block to some place with api? sfan5: you can see settings in the main menu under "All settings" and "+ Mods" sagax: no, i can't, it's not my server, i want see configuration of mods, but it's not my server sfan5: you want to see the configuration the server has, then? that's not possible sagax: i think, that some conf it's public access lmat: The craftguide mod is causing my server to crash. lmat: https://paste.rs/Anj lmat: Also this error: https://paste.rs/LZN lmat: Similar but not identical. lmat: wait...maybe they are the same. luvo: Is there anyway of stopping fall damage? apart from a deep watter hole? luvo: in minetest_game kaeza: luvo, either water or ladders IIRC kaeza: but take it with a grain of salt; I've been off for almost 3 years Krock: luvo: bouncy nodes Krock: or write a mod that overrides fall damage with 0 ANAND: Krock: I think they're asking for an in-game solution Krock: mods are in-game solutions ANAND: :) luvo: thaaank you guys! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! luvo: hahahaha nadav: Im trying to start a server using my pi nadav: I downloaded the minetest server from the debian sid repos nadav: but im getting this error message nadav: https://pastebin.com/yTDpKYhQ nadav: thank you very much! sfan5: nadav: I don't see any useful log output in there sfan5: except maybe the signal=ILL suggesting that the binary you have uses CPU instructions you're missing nadav: that would make sense nadav: I tried compiling it but it took 5 hours and was barely even on 20% nadav: becauase im on a pi.. nadav: I think its a pi1 sfan5: you need an armv6l binary then Emerald2: Do you know where he could get one? nadav: Could I try to compile it on my main PC then port it over sfan5: you can but cross-compiling is certainly not simple nadav: I assume there is a flag that I can enable to make the compiler do it for ATM nadav: oh nadav: *ARM sfan5: the rpi1 will be too slow for "serious" server usage but if you want to play around with it can I can cross-compile a binary for you nadav: yes! nadav: that would be amazing!!!!! nadav: I just need it for maybe 2 or 3 people sfan5: are you running raspbian 10? or 9? nadav: 10 nadav: pi@raspberrypi:~ $ uname -a nadav: Linux raspberrypi 5.4.40+ #1316 Tue May 12 12:59:15 BST 2020 armv6l GNU/Linux ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1316 -- Online mod repository is broken on master nadav: *10.4 sfan5: hm, raspbian buster for pi1 is the same download as all the others right? nadav: ummmmm, I dont know nadav: do you mean the img file for flashing it? sfan5: yes nadav: I think so nadav: I'm not sure though sfan5: hm yes should be alright luvo: you don't see this in many development teams! nadav: what? luvo: a dev cross compiling for a user hahaha luvo: which is incredibly cool nadav: ikr sfan5: nadav: https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/minetestserver-5.2.0-rpi1.tar.gz nadav: omg nadav: thanks!! sfan5: you can extract it and run ./bin/minetestserver, it will keep all files (world, config, ...) in the same folder Emerald2: You're the best, sfan. :) nadav: omg thank you so much!!!! nadav: your the best :) sfan5: since the rpi is slow you might want to look into these https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1825 nadav: so should I paste this into my config? sfan5: probably nadav: sick! sfan5: maybe just the last two though, everything related to block_sends is for saving bandwidth nadav: what does active_block_range do? nadav: also were is config file located sfan5: minetest.conf where all the other folders are by default sfan5: you can create it if it doesn't exist or specify a different location using --config sfan5: minetest.conf.example documents what the settings do nadav: oh all right nadav: so should I rename minetest.conf.example to minetest.conf sfan5: no nadav: so I should just edit it directly? sfan5: create a new, empty minetest.conf where you put your settings nadav: sounds good sfan5: (you can also rename and edit, but personally I find it more useful to keep minetest.conf.example as a read-only reference) nadav: That makes sense nadav: and I make it in the top level directory nadav: ? sfan5: in the same directory with bin, games, mods, textures, ... yes nadav: yes thank you! nephele: I am tempted to can the hud api and try to make a new one nephele: it's quite hard to make a predicatable hud with it... and impossible to do so while having it properly scalled .-. appguru: The server list should probably be moderated, as some servers are using bot players to boost their popularity. Those servers should probably be warned and later penalized (by manually decreasing their "score"). sfan5: source? appguru: sfan5: Source? As in, a citation to prove that some servers are using bot players? rubenwardy: n. Guest123's law: any Android player is indistinguishable from a bot sfan5: appguru: yes nephele: lol, why go to the effort of having bots if you can just lie to the listing server appguru: lying would be more obvious I guess appguru: but a server lying to the listing server would definitely require a penalty jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: THE CREATIVE GARDENS | animine.org:53000 | Clients: 0/15, 0/3 | Version: 5.2.0-animine / minetest_game | Ping: 81ms jas_: no problem oil_boi: Bots? oil_boi: also texmex the abillity to just hover over a node or entity and have it do something will be extremely useful, I can create different things with this, you can create ideas with this and I will set a on_hover function for nodes and entities built into the crafter game api appguru: it's pretty easy actually, just a globalstep + a raycast appguru: (and probably checking for tool range if it matters for your usecase) oil_boi: Yes but a clientside version so that players cannot abuse lag to look around things like endermen texmex: oil_boi: exactly my thinking as well. Basically a SSM able to register callbacks in the CSM so that the CSM alerts the SSM whenever a node/entity of pointed at. oil_boi: So how it will work is client does 0.05 second tick using after, registers if node or entity has on_hover, tells server using serialized table or entity, server deserializes table or entity and executes entity or node on_hover oil_boi: I might have to use globalstep with a tick toggle with on and off state so that it does it at half the fps of the client to save a little performance oil_boi: Offtopic: Also I just calculated the miles with the idle hours on my CVPI and it's at 455364 miles per ford holy shoit oil_boi: I'm not sure how much impact doing a raycast every client frame will actually have though as WAILA uses 0.1 fps tick appguru: The client already does a raycast every frame I think oil_boi: 0.01* oil_boi: appguru is there any way to access that information through csm? appguru: most likely not oil_boi: Oof :L oil_boi: Maybe I could just bolt the on_hover library to waila? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Add core.open_url() to main menu API (#8592) 13a9c3a42 https://git.io/JfETu (152020-05-17T18:09:10Z) sfan5: 2020-05-17 20:14:08: ERROR[Server]: Server::ActiveObjectMgr::addActiveObjectRaw(): no free id available texmex: That’s how I did it, yeah. sfan5: I think I might have dropped too much sand oil_boi: Oh my, yes that happens to me too when I go nuts with a level 50 swiftness, durable, and fortune gold shovel oil_boi: texmex, I will look into this then, maybe it would be more intelligent to use a global step for the waila loop instead and change the lua file to pointing.lua sfan5: ERROR[Server]: suspiciously large amount of objects detected: 2223 in (1,-1,24); removing all of them. sfan5: :DDD Krock: woth it oil_boi: There's gotta be a better texture for leaves appguru: I'm currently wondering: what would be the best way to show node hp? appguru: Options I have considered: appguru: - Multiple registered nodes appguru: - paramtype2 = color indexing an alpha palette, "blend-in"-crack texture oil_boi: node hp? Like how far in the digging animation it is? appguru: Sort of appguru: But I plan to use it for explosions etc. appguru: And only for a few special nodes oil_boi: Why not just use meta data then appguru: Because I want it to show somehow appguru: So that you can see: ah, this node has low HP, TNT-time oil_boi: HMMM, if you're only doing it for a few nodes then use multiple nodes oil_boi: I'm gonna guess, zelda breaking the wall with a bomb type of execution appguru: Probably multiple nodes combined with paramtype2 = color? oil_boi: Ooo that's a good idea oil_boi: I could have sworn we had a way to modify nodes in the terrain oil_boi: Animated sprite textures seem to be broken oh nu appguru: I had considered tile animations as well, but I think they lack the required persistence? oil_boi: lbm set self tile location? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: builtin: Move common/async_event.lua to mainmenu/async_event.lua 1311723cf https://git.io/JfEIS (152020-05-17T19:37:01Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: content_mapblock: Move static initialization out of functions 1352430d3 https://git.io/JfEI9 (152020-05-17T19:37:01Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Client: Add sum and average to packetcounter 13be38a44 https://git.io/JfEIH (152020-05-17T19:37:01Z) oil_boi: Is animating nodes possible yet? nephele: depends nephele: You can make a node that has an animation plaing all the time afaik, but no arbitrary animations based on node content or so nephele: (unless you register all possible states as seperate nodes and switch between them) oil_boi: Is there a way to make the node only play the animation once? nephele: Hmm, i think there was a way to pause the animation, but don't quite me on that :g nephele: If you want to play it once you could swap between an animated and non-animated variant i gues nephele: kinda like the mtg furnace switches between active and non-active mode fluxflux: I'm trying to fix a longstanding issue, in which a player can place a node over the top-half of a travelnet, which causes Problems. For anyone not familiar, the upper half of a travelnet isn't a separate node, but just a mesh/collsion box extended to 2 blocks high. What needs to be done, is to check that the node below isn't a travelnet node and prevent the placement. `minetest.register_on_placenode` feels like it's called fluxflux: too late (i'd have to properly remove the node and re-add it to the player's inventory). i can't see any way to add behavior to the travelnet itself to prevent this, outside of some complicated mechanic that makes the upper half a proper node somehow. should i override `minetest.place_node`? is there a cleaner way to do this? oil_boi: fluxflux when a player places a travelnet it needs to create a fakenode on top of it that's drawtype is airlike and when it is on_destruct, then remove the node above it otherwise it will happen fluxflux: yeah, that's an option, i feel like there ought to be a simpler way... sfan5: what oil_boi describes is how doors do it and it's been solid fluxflux: ah interesting oil_boi: You can set this with on_construct, pos.y = pos.y +1 minetest.set_node(pos, {name="mod:fakenode"}) and then repeat the function on destruct but do minetest.remove_node(pos) sfan5: and by the way if you wanted to do it the other way you'd override `minetest.item_place_node` fluxflux: maybe i can copy over the code from doors oil_boi: Maybe I can help you even further and create a comment on travelnet oil_boi: Sokomine, I am looking through the code and will help this become a non-issue, because I have seen this a few times fluxflux: i wish you luck w/ that, i've had little luck getting Sokomine to accept PRs :) nephele: oil_boi, by the way, i tried the quickloot thingy, it's not quite possible yet, i could make a very simple version that has a special icon for each item/node and use the limited keybinds available, but that is not that nice :) oil_boi: nephele you should try to combine it with a client mod and check the scrolling of the hotbar to navigate through the submenu and rightclick leftclick to do certain things in it oil_boi: So I was able to replicate the issue https://i.imgur.com/ZwkT4bC.png nephele: oil_boi, i am only using a client mod anyhow nephele: hmm, what do you mean with the scrollbar? oil_boi: Hotbar, you can scroll through elements if you check the hotbar selection position nephele: I think i may actually be able to obtain the texture names if i make a server mod for it and use mod channels to send them, for some reason the current csm does not allow me to check the tiles definition of nodes nephele: oil_boi, hmm, what call would that be? nephele: like players wield index or so? nephele: Okay, i could use that for selection i suppose nephele: but right and left click i can't really catch reliably (so you don't accidentally interact with the enviroment) nephele: so might use e to interact and shift+e for "entire stack" or so nephele: oil_boi, okay, i can try it again tommorow utilizing the wield index and a serverside component nephele: but it is gonna be somewhat hacky ; nephele: :D Sokomine: fluxflux: hmm. travelnet and travelnet elevator use diffrent technics in this. i'm undecided as to what is the best approach...but yes, placing something where the upper part of a travelnet is might cause problems with arriving players nephele: only if the upper part has a collision mesh that is a problem, if you have to have one you could even make it match the one of the lower part of the travelnet Sokomine: oil_boi: hmm. if this happens so often i probably really will have to take a look at it and place a fake node. vanessae also reminded me that there's work to do on my travelnet Sokomine: fluxflux: i'm just lazy. it's not that prs are unwanted or anything. i just...keep looking at my repros from time to time (which might even be months or years between) and fix one in on go. unless i notice something myswelf and get aware of a problem Sokomine: it's in general best to msg me here or send a forum pm. and to repeat the process until i've fixed it :-) don't bother too much that that might be considered spam...a friendly reminder won't :-) fluxflux: i thought busy, i don't blame you, and appreciate what you've done fluxflux: (afk for a bit) Sokomine: yes, busy sometimes as well. but a reminder is always welcome Sokomine: so please don't feel bad if your pr isn't regarded immediately. it may take...time...until i'll reply :/ oil_boi: Sokomine https://github.com/Sokomine/travelnet/pull/57 oil_boi: Here is a quickfix to solve the problem, this can be worked upon oil_boi: VSCode messed up the indentation but that can easily be fixed oil_boi: Also this disallows liquids to flow into the travelnet and elevator which was something else I tested oil_boi: yo leo_rockway you find anything else? oil_boi: I'm trying to kill any bugs before I move onto mob pathfinding optimization leo_rockway: oil_boi: I found that I can't run Crafter unless I'm on latest dev and MineClone2 doesn't support latest dev. So I find myself switching from one to the other, haha. leo_rockway: oil_boi: I actually found an issue, but I don't know how it happened or how to replicate it. I built an aether portal and it didn't transport me anywhere. So I built another one next to it, and that one worked. leo_rockway: nothing meaningful in the console output. oil_boi: Aw man, yeah. I think it's kind of ironic one game supports latest dev but aims to be an old build and the other wants to be latest and only supports stable oil_boi: That's actually what I expected, that whole portal api needs a rebuild oil_boi: I've never seen anyone do portals like that before, so I will try to improve it leo_rockway: but I like the portal transition. I wish I hadn't watched the video in advance. It would've been a pleasant surprise. oil_boi: Thanks bro leo_rockway: I like that animals look at the player, that's huge. The animals in all other games look like droid animals. oil_boi: There's gotta be some way to do that with 100% consistency without causing lag leo_rockway: I feel that the fx for hitting mobs is weird. It's a metal fx, even when I hit a pig with my bare hand. oil_boi: Hell yeah man, next step, the mob looks all the way to the direction before even moving then starts to move smoothing out their head animation leo_rockway: oil_boi: I don't know what's different in the animation of the creeper in Crafter vs MineClone2, but Crafter's one seems more vivid. I think it's his feet that make the difference. oil_boi: Yeah, it's actually broken right now, I'm not sure what is causing it exactly oil_boi: leo_rockway are crafter and MC2 using the same animation? leo_rockway: it seemed somewhat different to me. oil_boi: Err model not animation oil_boi: I will download mc2 and test it rn leo_rockway: I think the model is the same, the animation looks different to me, though. In MineClone2 creepers kind of look like they are levitating. Their feet are kind of weird. leo_rockway: I don't know if it's just my perseption, though. leo_rockway: perception* leo_rockway: oil_boi: I haven't checked the nether yet. I didn't have flint and steel to ignite the portal. leo_rockway: I saw that you fixed that now. leo_rockway: I really like MineClone2, but the mobs need tlc. So I like Crafter mobs so far. oil_boi: Oh, well the first thing I found was the animation for the creeper is incorrectly set via 22i's model, I just punched it and it lit, then didn't do anything, I kept punching it and nothing happened, then I backed away and my headphones capped out when it reignited 500+ times in 3 seconds :( leo_rockway: oil_boi: I don't recall, but it might be that your bare hand does no damage to the mobs in MineClone2. oil_boi: Holy crap you're right leo_rockway: the whole damage thing needs rework. If you wear armor you're pretty much unkillable. leo_rockway: it's reported, so he's aware. oil_boi: Maybe I can help the project, but I cannot find a github page for it sfan5: !mod mineclone2 MinetestBot: sfan5: Convert Minetest world to Mineclone2 WIP [gt2mc2] by maikerumine - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=17907 - https://github.com/maikerumine/gt2mc2 sfan5: no not that leo_rockway: oil_boi: I'll get you the link. sfan5: either way mineclone uses some niche git hosting site oil_boi: That is definitely not good leo_rockway: https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2/ oil_boi: Ooooh Wuzzy: !mod is broken leo_rockway: I understand him not wanting to use Github. oil_boi: Wuzzy can I create a git clone on github and then just send you a link to all the fixes? leo_rockway: I don't really like nonfree software, and in the case of Github it's kind of concerning that MS could at any time decide to get rid of Minetest. It might be a paranoid thought, but MS has done bad things in the past. Wuzzy: of course you can clone mineclone2 😆 oil_boi: Oh yes, I have that same fear, that's why I have over 20 backup sights when I create any commit Wuzzy: its even in the name 😆 sfan5: "Microsoft deletes random project because they felt like it" is a PR nightmare and not realistic Wuzzy: i hope you all have backups of all the issues. just saying Wuzzy: github is at least kinda usable without activating JS hell leo_rockway: sfan5: it is, but MS has done really bad stuff in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents oil_boi: I only have one thing to add to this to qualm any fear https://github.com/torvalds/linux Wuzzy: which is the reason why I do not avoid GitHub competely Wuzzy: I do avoid Transfex since a good while tho Wuzzy: because its literally JS hell Wuzzy: yes, i also dislike MS, but thats not the reason why i dislike GH oil_boi: If the creator of git uses github, I think it is safe, just create backups leo_rockway: oil_boi: Torvalds was perfectly happy using BitKeeper too. oil_boi: I have...5228 versions of crafter backed up alone sfan5: leo_rockway: I am aware of that Wuzzy: It's still concerning that a single hoster hosts so many many repos at once Wuzzy: single point of failure rubenwardy: !mod [mineclone2] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( oil_boi: Whoa no, this is turning into a non-solvable argument Wuzzy: !mod MineClone 2 MinetestBot: Wuzzy: MineClone 2 by Wuzzy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16407 - https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2 Wuzzy: aha! there we go! oil_boi: Anyways, Wuzzy I will help you with the damage if I can wrap my head around the damage system rom1504: "js hell", are you stuck in 2000 Wuzzy ? Wuzzy: current year argument detected oil_boi: That's why I built my own damage system, I couldn't understand other ones, and it was ultra extremely annoying Wuzzy: have you looked at Transifex's source code? then you'll understand. 😀 oil_boi: If you look at the linux source code then the java script argument becomes a grain of sand in the test of time Wuzzy: thats not really the reason... rom1504: ah you mean the code is bad ? rom1504: I see a lot of python in their github org Wuzzy: lets just say i dont trust the company Wuzzy: I also dont avoid *all* of the JS. Wuzzy: but i only turn it on when i absolutely must, AND i am not distrusting the source. the more complex the JS, the harder it becomes to convince me to turn it on 😉 oil_boi: No, I mean, it's creating minor memory leaks. I'm not saying I could make literally anything anywhere close to Linux kernel, but I do not want to create shit code that Linus has a heart attack over rom1504: ok so you do mean you don't want to use js in a browser oil_boi: I have a feeling wuzzy uses links Wuzzy: thats not what im saying... rom1504: why do you like better all the bad c and c++ code that make your apps ? Wuzzy: huh? links? of course i do. i mean links are the bread and butter of the WWW. using the web without clickable links seems ... strange? oil_boi: I come from a time where exiting and joining a game caused minetest to use 5GB on the main menu due to memory leaks, I would have to say we are fine oil_boi: Also it seems we are all putting out our anger individually on individual things, so please, get it out right now in furious texts Wuzzy: i believe the memory leak is still not fixed... 🙁 oil_boi: I will start: IT SHOULD f***** NOT take 3 seconds for a website to load on 100MBPS internet Wuzzy: Word! oil_boi: I believe you are RIGHT, and we should fix it oil_boi: BUT, HOW, will we fix it? WHERE is the memory leak coming from? Wuzzy: back to topic... something about memory leak. when i restart my game over and over again my memory usage is only going up Wuzzy: the only way to make it go away is to close minetest. way to fill up 8 gigs really fast. yes, something is really wrong here oil_boi: One second, I shall restart my client over and over again for the next 5 minutes Wuzzy: nonono Wuzzy: i mean, restart the game in minetest, not minetest itself nephele: oil_boi, btw, yesterday you said you want to get a game like feed the beats, have you ever played the minecraft modpack "big dig"? Wuzzy: if you restart minetest, your memory is freed again oil_boi: Yes I have and it has not solved my desires, but I shall need a few minutes to monitor this issue I am testing oil_boi: My base at main menu: 56MB nephele: I can kinda reproduce that, seems to help the usage if i load more chunks nephele: on 5.3-dev oil_boi: I will not continue any further: in the time it took from me to post that original comment and keep restarting the game, 1.5GB memory usage leo_rockway: Wuzzy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_%28web_browser%29 leo_rockway: I'm guessing that's what oil_boi was talking about. nephele: oil_boi, well, that mod pack (especially the bountifull earth) aswell as buildcraft in it and industrial craft (i think?) are some of the inspiration i have for my subgame leo_rockway: I try to avoid JS too. It makes websites gigantic for no reason. nephele: so i thought it was pretty interesting that you also seem to want to move in a similar direction oil_boi: I may reiterate, again, where in the source code are we creating new memory spaces for all of these variables in the engine's source code? Is it item or node or tool definitions? Is it compressed cached textures? oil_boi: nephele I will look at your game soon oil_boi: This seems like it's almost perfectly fitting the definition of every node and entities mesh whether or not it uses a mesh, as if it is keeping them in memory leo_rockway: oil_boi: how does running / fov work in a server? is it still fine or is it too hacky to let it work correctly there? I feel that it works great in singleplayer. leo_rockway: s/running/sprinting oil_boi: Oh trust me leo_rockway it's laggy as in MC, the only solution to this is CSM, sadly oil_boi: I cannot work around the anchors of the engine leo_rockway: oil_boi: is there any limitation to keeping it CSM? appguru: leo_rockway: servers, mainly leo_rockway: oh, of course. Silly question, haha. Thanks appguru oil_boi: Oh absolutely, right now CSM is owned by the clients namespace, a server cannot maintain what code is run in client it only can communicate with it, the solution that has been brought forth is: the client receives the CS mods from the server and it cannot be touched, because at that point you are working with 1s and 0s trying to hack it oil_boi: You can hack my Crafter mods like there's no tomorrow oil_boi: A server being able to modify what the client is running in that sense would be the equivalent to accidentally installing a keylogger on your computer oil_boi: It's not remotely the same based on the current code that is enabled in the game, but I hope you understand my point leo_rockway: yup, I got it. oil_boi: Just like mod security, there is definitely a way to upload client mods from the server and having the client actively interpreting the code in a safe way nephele: Garry's mod had a model like that, funnily enough on one fatefull night someoen managed to abuse a server and client exploit to have a self-replicating virus over gmod that infected servers and then its clients, and then clients infected severs :D nephele: It only made you spam *cough* in the chat though, and join the steam universe chat to caugh there, and caugh to your steam friends... not that hostile as such (was named the cough virus cus of that) oil_boi: That's sadly what happens when valve employees run 18 hour days without communicating with their security division of developers nephele: gmod is not made by valve nephele: it's made by facepunch oil_boi: Ahh I see GMOD is using the builtin libraries from source oil_boi: So in the sense we are talking about it, networking, yes, yes it is nephele: They use large parts of the source engine indeed, but they cook their own sauce so to speak :P nephele: The exploit also relied on the ability to execute lua code, so you know, nothing other valve games had to deal with leo_rockway: oil_boi: if you work on mobs / damage in MineClone2 and Wuzzy likes the changes and merges them, that's going to be so awesome. leo_rockway: I'm not a gamer, but I've been playing MineClone2 the last few days. I feel that the mobs are just dumb, sitting in water for the most part (I have a lake in front of my house and mobs tend to get stuck there). leo_rockway: also, villages with villagers would make the exploring part more fun too. leo_rockway: I know MineClone2 has come a long way, though. leo_rockway: I've been "playing" Minetest shortly after it came out. Minetest Game is not fun. I understand it's a proof of concept of sorts. I see MineClone2, Crafter and some others as actual games. leo_rockway: I tried The End for a bit yesterday and it seemed fun too. I was on the dev branch, though, so it crashed on me. oil_boi: Just like Windows or Linux is just the base it takes people to build upon it leo_rockway: yeah, I think the Minetest engine is neat. jas_: i couldn't do mc2, because it makes too many assumptions jas_: it's nice to play a regular game and then mod it, MTG is a good, stable, regular game oil_boi: jas_ Yes, that is the beauty of open world games, you can do whatever you want and no one gets to tell you otherwise oil_boi: For example, my implementation of drowning and hunger will probably make like 40-200 people hate me, and that's alright, modify that shit oil_boi: But if a base game is too boring to the point where it detracts people from getting that inspirational spark, then there is a problem nephele: In mtg i just turn off damage, it's only annoying :P oil_boi: Even chips challenge has plenty of people modifying it, so we must aim to have that level of introductionary modification ability from someone who has not created any type of source code oil_boi: We must aim to be "chips challenge of a 3d open world game" cheapie: If only --migrate-auth gave a progress indication... migrating 433k players takes quite some time :/ leo_rockway: thank you so much, sfan5 sfan5: the bigger issue here IMO is that lavacooling is so flakey (at least the way it works in MTG) oil_boi: My man, I've been in your position the last couple of weeks, the only way you're going to be able to improve the code any further is by going to sleep and realizing new things you did not know before your mind processed the information you tried to correct the night before oil_boi: It's a horrific flaw in the human mind oil_boi: But leaving notes to correct the mind's forgetfulness boosts productivity oil_boi: Man, I can't even tell you guys how many nights I've gone to sleep strained on a bit of code not working only to see it corrected in my dreams and then implement it into Crafter oil_boi: The same shit happens when I work on cars leo_rockway: I'm compiling now to test the PR. leo_rockway: I just found out that any PR can be turned into a patch by just adding .patch to the Github URL. leo_rockway: pretty convenient. leo_rockway: (not that I advocate using Github anyway...) yrungr_phone: oil_boi i think the part of my mind that actually figures code problems out is subconcious. I study the problem and it provides an answer. Often, with a complex problem, i will go do something else a leave that part to work in peace. leo_rockway: https://i.imgur.com/aAtUjhW.png leo_rockway: nice oil_boi: yrungr_phone, yeah exactly. Do you ever notice how when you work on something else the problem before will suddenly provide the solution? leo_rockway: yrungr_phone: rubber ducky debugging works very well for me. Not just with scripting / programming, but with life in general. leo_rockway: but I have had several eureka moments when I leave a problem alone, usually when sleeping. oil_boi: I've unfortunately in the past few months have had around 250+ of these while sleeping, it's no good. If I had these during awakeness I could have solved multiple problems at once yrungr_phone: oil_boi yeah, it's happened enough times that i just accept it now. Going to do something else is part of my procress now. :) oil_boi: yrungr_phone Yeah seriously dude. I've had a few people ask me why I just go any which way with the stuff I improve/fix. The only way you can do this is if you have a eureka moment or a sudden moment of clarity oil_boi: It's horrendous, and if you stay up to the point where you're dog tired this seems to happen automatically or if you're piss drunk yrungr_phone: leo_rockway i'm currently staying with my dad and we talk about code (he's coding arduinos for his model railway). Sometimes i'll be explaining a problem to him and the answer will click. So i guess he's my rubber duck. :) leo_rockway: yes, it doesn't need to be a physical rubber duck. That's why I really like paired programming. leo_rockway: pair programming* oil_boi: The metaphysical rubber duck is to stream your programming even if no one is watching leo_rockway leo_rockway: :D oil_boi: My game would have gotten no where if not for that oil_boi: You must pretend as if your favorite fan is watching no matter what the view counter says oil_boi: That is the true rubber duck leo_rockway: I need to try crafter. I found out about it yesterday. yrungr_phone: oil_boi that sounds a bit rough. My brain processes stuff while i'm sleeping, but it lets me wake up and start my day before it tells me. Sounds like yours slaps you awake. oil_boi: yrungr_phone No it doesn't actually, for some reason I retain the info and then it goes into an absolutely insane dream as my mind processes the information to use it, it's fucking weird dude yrungr_phone: O_0 oil_boi: also leo_rockway if you become my new favorite fan please tell me, I will be looking forwards to seeing your comments on my updates even though that is very selfish leo_rockway: oil_boi: well, I just commented on #mineclone2 that I git pull every morning and might be a bit obsessed. leo_rockway: I like the idea of minetest, but minetest game is super boring. MineClone2 filled that void for me. I'm not a gamer, I just like seeing the progress. leo_rockway: I'll download crafter right now. oil_boi: yrungr_phone I know right? I had a dream about the plants api where I just do everything like it's nothing and celeron55 was like "noice" and then all of a sudden I was heading for a nuclear bunker and shit was getting out of control, it has stuck with me oil_boi: And then I did everything like it was nothing and now I'm 100 commits later oil_boi: Dreams can be horrific and a blessing yrungr_phone: leo_rockway i think of minetest the engine. oil_boi: Also thanks leo_rockway, the engine is nice but the MTG is actually yrungr_phone: As the engine oil_boi: Not good oil_boi: And honestly it's not anyone's fault, that's what happens when you committee drive a game with no vision sadly :( leo_rockway: yrungr_phone: yeah, the engine is fine, it's just minetest game that is super boring. leo_rockway: I guess it's fine for creative. leo_rockway: oil_boi: man, crafter looks great visually. And the sounds are nice! oil_boi: If you have 200 view points on what a game should be, then the game will become the blandest aspects of what the game could be oil_boi: Thanks man leo_rockway: and you have double tap to sprint, with FOV! oil_boi: Yeah haha, that was a dream since 2013 yrungr_phone: leo_rockway i think the minetest game is just a demo and mintest is really a platform for modders to build on. Its good they kept it simple. oil_boi: I said this to gerold55 before, you guys haven't seen anything yet yrungr_phone: The devs can focus on the engine, let the modders worry about gameplay. leo_rockway: oil_boi: I like the effect and sounds when the leaves decay. oil_boi: yrungr_phone the devs will focus on the engine, the modders recommend what features are needed. It's sadly the natural way it has to go otherwise we have an engine no one wants to use oil_boi: But when you say it like that the devs will ignore what you have to say because that is human nature oil_boi: leo_rockway thanks bro oil_boi: leo_rockway sorry the mobs don't spawn yet, I have to work on that quite a bit tomorrow, if you give yourself "server" privilege then you can spawn pig, phyg, creeper for now leo_rockway: oil_boi: now I want MineClonafter to be a thing... oil_boi: Well you're playing it bro oil_boi: You're in alpha 0.04 leo_rockway: I want some of the stuff from Crafter and some of the stuff from MineClone2. leo_rockway: I see you have XP too, nice. The orbs look kind of flat, but at least there's experience. oil_boi: There's still beta and beta2 to come yrungr_phone: I'm kind of tempted to have a play with lua some day, looks fun. leo_rockway: do you have enchanting / potions oil_boi? oil_boi: I do, look in the "enchanting" section of TooManyItems oil_boi: yrungr_phone dude go for it yrungr_phone: Is there a good mod to add enchantment and xp to mineclone? oil_boi: open up lua, if you're on linux with "lua" in the terminal and it'll just go without crashing unless you do something nuts yrungr_phone: like the python terminal? oil_boi: Exact;u oil_boi: Exactly* oil_boi: Whoops, my keys binded leo_rockway: oil_boi: no armor yet, right? yrungr_phone: wheres a good place to learn about modding minetest lua for a noob? oil_boi: Oh no, absolutely not, that's reserved for alpha 0.06. It's going to be very, very difficult to implement that into the game, but worthwhile oil_boi: yrungr_phone https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/index.html yrungr_phone: Thanks oil_boi. oil_boi: This skips over a few things, but if you haven't done lua before you will learn a LOT oil_boi: yrungr_phone No problem bro, just remember, when I first started, sfan5 and jeija had to teach me how to print("hi") oil_boi: You will be a great modder yrungr_phone: :) leo_rockway: oil_boi: how long ago was that? oil_boi: Let me look leo_rockway: oil_boi: also, how much do you want me to report on my impression of playing Crafter? leo_rockway: bbiab. oil_boi: let's see, 8 years ago https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=6119#p6119 oil_boi: leo_rockway as much as you want oil_boi: Also, I cannot be thankful enough to sfan5 and jeija, if there were more people like them our modding community would be filled with people encouraging and training other people to make the best of themselves, including rubenwardy leo_rockway: sorry, baby was crying. leo_rockway: oil_boi: I'll make comments in the forum thread. There are things I like a lot and things that could be improved a bit. Is your objective pretty much the same as MineClone2's? If yes, why not combine the efforts? oil_boi: Oh why not just create issues here? https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/issues oil_boi: I read those much more often oil_boi: Also, not it is not. We want different versions of a game that already exists. I want beta 1.5 Feed The Beast, Wuzzy wants MC current cloned oil_boi: You can't have FTB beta without the base game leo_rockway: oil_boi: I'm not familiar with FTB. leo_rockway: I never really played Minecraft before. I tried the demo to report bugs to MineClone2. oil_boi: Holy crap leo_rockway: I know that Wuzzy is aiming for 1.12. What's the difference between 1.12 and 1.5? leo_rockway: oil_boi: what textures are you using? Wuzzy: 1.11* oil_boi: 1.5 beta is about 6.7 years behind that leo_rockway: Wuzzy: thanks. oil_boi: Gerold55's textures oil_boi: From mc2, and some of my own oil_boi: You gotta start off from the basics leo_rockway: are they free as in freedom? oil_boi: gplv2 oil_boi: Wait no that's not right leo_rockway: nice leo_rockway: oh... leo_rockway: I was going to say, it's weird to have a software license for textures. oil_boi: MIT leo_rockway: also, I just died. I didn't get food and apparently it's hardcode mode. oil_boi: Blame the forum for not having a fallback license if not provided oil_boi: Yes, you will die if you don't farm for now, fuck it, I'll enable mobspawning now leo_rockway: huzzah! leo_rockway: oil_boi: villages / villagers? oil_boi: Noooo, but humans in villages yes oil_boi: There are certain things from MC that everyone has forgotten but I haven't, like different textures for hostile/peaceful humans leo_rockway: I feel like you'll need to tweak the water physics. Default minetest water feels like jello. leo_rockway: oil_boi: I never heard of humans in villages. oil_boi: Oh there's no way to that I can find leo_rockway: oil_boi: Wuzzy tweaked that and it feels much better. oil_boi: leo_rockway exactly, it lasted 3 days leo_rockway: and like I said, I never really played Minecraft. oil_boi: leo_rockway I'm not sure what you mean, water_viscosity is the same leo_rockway: I don't know how he tweaked it. leo_rockway: oil_boi: this feels really immersive. Dying animation and then the poof for the mobs (creeper). leo_rockway: although when the creeper exploded, the explosion didn't drop the blocks that got damaged, I don't think. oil_boi: Oh it's a physics multiplier oil_boi: Yes, there are quite a few things that need to be fixed, the nodes don't drop because they caused lag oil_boi: But I will probably collect all the bugs anyone reports and then fix them all in one shot leo_rockway: I would like to see stuff from here ported to MineClone2 and vice-versa :D leo_rockway: oil_boi: hey, I saw that you mentioned in a video that you couldn't find sounds for some stuff. I managed to get this whole resource pack freed by the author: https://opengameart.org/content/snowsong-sound-and-music-pack oil_boi: Over a gig? oil_boi: You're spoiling me leo_rockway leo_rockway: oil_boi: I think it also has textures. I thought the textures were okay, but the sounds and the songs are great. rubenwardy: leo_rockway: where is the evidence of the license? leo_rockway: rubenwardy: in the readme. leo_rockway: the Google Drive is hers. leo_rockway: I repacked it as tar.gz and uploaded it to opengameart. leo_rockway: Sn0wZone and Sn0wSong resource pack by Alecia Shepherd is licensed under a leo_rockway: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 rubenwardy: the download found on the official page doesn't have that in its license rubenwardy: I'm not challenging you, just think you should link directly to the proof in the OGA post leo_rockway: no, she reuploaded it relicensed to her Google drive after talking to me. leo_rockway: the only proof I have that she uploaded that is the email she sent me, I guess. leo_rockway: I don't use Google Drive myself. rubenwardy: ok, I see leo_rockway: should I take a screenshot of the email? leo_rockway: IANAL, I don't know what would work. leo_rockway: I wanted her to upload to OGA herself, but as much as she knows about music, she didn't know much about other stuff. leo_rockway: so she just edited the readme and uploaded it to her drive. rubenwardy: idk rubenwardy: anyway, good night o/ leo_rockway: goodnight oil_boi: Ah, I'm lucky I'm mad toasted before I implemented any of that oil_boi: sorry leo_rockway oil_boi: I can't find the license anywhere either leo_rockway: oil_boi: it's in the readme file within the tar.gz oil_boi: I'm sorry leo_rockway, licenses are pieces of shit, that's why I usually stick to attribution or cc0 oil_boi: Look at sampling+, that shit was so horrible they gave up leo_rockway: oil_boi: I can send you a screenshot of the email she sent me. oil_boi: Hahaha, I'm just messing with you, if there's a file which redirects the license I honestly don't care oil_boi: It's about respect, not legality, without respect, legality is the last resort to prove a point in open source oil_boi: If she sends me a message threatening me, bloop, those files are getting fucking nuked leo_rockway: at any rate, here it is: https://i.imgur.com/aJEEI3f.png oil_boi: I do enjoy the CC messages I'm still getting from 6 years ago leo_rockway: this was when I was still using gmail. leo_rockway: so I had to go fetch that email from my personal wayback machine, hehe. oil_boi: That "become an employee of mojang" message I still could not debunk though oil_boi: I don't know why jeb would email me leo_rockway: what happened? oil_boi: Sadly I cannot find the licensing in the files oil_boi: So I cannot use this without sources oil_boi: leo_rockway mojang tried to make me one of their employees leo_rockway: you'd be rolling in moolah! hehe. oil_boi: Hahaha I'm sorry oil_boi: Microsoft tried to accommodate me oil_boi: I'd rather be rolling in mud knowing I helped a gpl project leo_rockway: :) leo_rockway: I noticed that items stack really high, not 64. Is that a feature or a bug? oil_boi: Minetest has 32000+ in every direction, do you think 64 stack limit would make this easy to sculpt the terrain with that limitation per slot in the inventory? leo_rockway: haha oil_boi: Oh no, sorry, I have become too cynical talking to nephele oil_boi: Yes, that is intentional oil_boi: I thought it would make it easier to work with the terrain oil_boi: you also have a stack replacement when you run out of nodes to place if you have them in your inventory oil_boi: The idea: you have semi infinite directions, now you have semi infinite nodes oil_boi: I tried building a house with 64 and 99 stack limit and it was incredibly frustrating leo_rockway: I don't dislike the limitation. It makes survival more challenging. oil_boi: I thought that too, but then I realized you could carry 10000 tons of material without slowing down leo_rockway: I just found a dungeon. Is there anything there yet or is it just the structure? oil_boi: Nope, you're viewing a beta dungeon oil_boi: Err, alpha dungeon leo_rockway: oh, man, I found diamonds right after my pickaxe broke! leo_rockway: I'll have to come back. leo_rockway: I heard a mysterious noise in the cave... leo_rockway: does that mean there's another cave or something? oil_boi: leo_rockway you must find out leo_rockway: dun dun dun! leo_rockway: oil_boi: what happened with MC after 1.8 that made it go downhill? oil_boi: The loading times, the file size, the loss of feeling for the base game oil_boi: It's not Minecraft anymore leo_rockway: oh, I thought it was new features that you didn't like. oil_boi: No, those features are pretty cool. But if you play the old versions of the game you see what it actually is misspapaya: what's the command to test a server here? jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: Yggdrasil [linuxiuvat.de] | linuxiuvat.de | Clients: 0/16, 0/0 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest | Ping: 24ms jas_: <3 oil_boi: leo_rockway nah, I just don't like committee driven games oil_boi: Anyways I'mma go be drunk somewhere else bro, hope I didn't bother you too much, have a good one misspapaya: !server MinetestBot: misspapaya: German-Creative-server | ronnix.ddns.net:30003 | Clients: 0/64, 0/0 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest | Ping: 30ms misspapaya: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md misspapaya: !up 72.220.59.147 30000 MinetestBot: 72.220.59.147:30000 is up (157ms) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Log protocol ver on mismatched client connect too 13a08251a https://git.io/Jf0ms (152020-05-16T10:03:36Z) nephele: hmm, I guess i am expected to keep around references to hud objects to clean up later for mt? so basically update the gui when it changes i suppose ANAND: nephele: hud_add returns the ID of the added HUD element ANAND: The ID is used when you want to modify/remove the element ANAND: using hud_change and hud_remove, respectively nephele: Ok, so i do need to keep around references :), is there an api to place elements based on pixels too? ANAND: There's the "offset" field to allow for accurate positioning ANAND: But the offset is relative to "position" field ANAND: But nothing is stopping mods from setting position to a corner and using only the offset to position the HUD element wherever required. :) nephele: Hmm, as long as all my elements use the same position i could use the offset then nephele: I have a tiny-ish layouting lib i wrote for gmod i am trying to port, it assumes it can layout stuff side to side :P (which i assume too hehe) ANAND: Ah, cool nephele: >**Note**: `offset` _will_ adapt to screen DPI as well as user defined scaling factor! nephele: Ugh nephele: I wish it would instead give me the scaling factor so i can properly scale myself... trying to assume my intention by moving hud elements closer or farther apart is uhm... not optimal nephele: mts hud api seems to be constructed completely around the idea of making it scale friendly... without giving me the tools to make it scale friendly myself .-. (image size is a percentage of the image... not like "N pixels" with a scaling algho defined, possibly :( ) ANAND: Ouch ANAND: It'd be nice to set a boolean to true to prevent offset from adapting to DPI and scaling ANAND: Or "raw_offset" maybe nephele: The entire api is a bit too high level for my taste heh... in gmod the render order was precisely defined, and i could just hook into one stage and draw what i wanted with a simpleish api (especially nice that i did not need to keep context around.. eh) nephele: Is there any way i can get the apparent width of hud elements? ANAND: AFAIK, nope :P nephele: :/ nephele: Okay, hackish port finished... still no idea how to properly get elem sizes of drawn stuff or how i can do drawing precendence... but let's see if it basically works :g nephele: bah, i hope - gets allowed in modnames at some point nephele: really pisses me off that it isnt nephele: why does hud_add want userdata and not a table? NetherEran: did you do player.hud_add instead of player:hud_add? nephele: huh, looks like i did indeed nephele: thanks NetherEran: np nephele: Is there some constants i can check for to pull in debug or trace statements or so? (under the assumption that luajit will optimize them out if its not debug time) nephele: oh... should probably just define a constant in the file, lol luvo: morning everyone luvo: is https://github.com/minetest-mods something "official"? or is related to the minetest content database? luvo: no, right? sfan5: not official no nephele: Yeah, figures, the api docs for text colors are wrong... only works like specified for luajit or used to, now it just doesn't work anymore nephele: or... hmm nephele: ah nvm, tonumber isn't required after all nephele: Is it not possible to include textures in clientside mods? sfan5: not possible as the documentation says nephele: That's annoying :/ nephele: i just need some textures for my hud, heh nephele: Have the texture serverside now, still no image on the hud ... guess i'm doing smth wrong nephele: ah, needed to define a scale of x=1 and y=1, becuase =0 is the default for some reason.. :) nephele: bah, the text only "somewhat" renders where i tell it to .-. nephele: argh, the text placement is pretty unpredictable nephele: Uses a different coordinate thingy to the textures... doesn't render the same, and has no way to give me the actuall rendered size :/ nephele: (looks like i need to use alignment thingy) yrungr: i'm making my first mod and i want to get it working on mineclone2. i've got the got the depends = default line in mod.conf and it's not liking that. do i need to get it to depend on mineclone2 stuff instead? nephele: why are you depending on default? yrungr: i'm following a tutorial. yrungr: do i not need to do that? nephele: No, if you see any thing accessed with "default:something" it is not applicable to mineclone2, the depends line means you want a mod called default to load before your mod nephele: but mineclone2 does not have a mod named default yrungr: ah, ok. yrungr: thanks. ANAND: Most mods depend on default, because default is the mod-in-command of MTG. If you're making a mod for MCL2, you should dig through the code to check what mods you need to depend on. ANAND: Maybe check if Wuzzy has provided documentation that'll explain the mod structure in MCL2, and what mods you need to depend on for your mod. yrungr: good idea. thanks again. nephele: Question, the engine already knows which node is highlighted, seeing as it draws the border... is there a simple way to access this in luaspace? nephele: I would like to avoid doing a trace to determine the node if possible, but i can do that if all else fails :D ANAND: I think there's an open feature request for adding that capability ANAND: #9587 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9587 -- Expose pointed node to CSM nephele: ANAND, thanks guess i'll do it manually for now nephele: Do i need something special for the raycast to work clientside? I am scanning a pretty far range but always get _ = nil for the :next() object sfan5: nephele: yes, the csm_restriction_flags on the server need to allow it nephele: Oh, okay nephele: I can't seem to remove any hud elements in csm code 0_o... time to update my install i guess nephele: Does csm have restrictions that prevent using globals like you can use in server mods? nephele: I am trying to store references to UI elements, but the array is nil on each next iteration nephele: ugh, i must be doing something wrong that i don't see... jas_: i have very little experience with csm, but if you're not running the client and server in the same instance, make sure they both have csm enabled LOL that's obvious tho nephele: So... globals don't seem to work, at all? (trying in a globalstep function in a csm) there is no player meta either so.... i guess my only option is to try to abuse mod channels or filesystem api? I somehow doubt that is intended jas_: i have some csm scripts here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=24624 jas_: can you share your source code so i can take a look? nephele: I will put it on git in a second jas_: okie nephele: Here, https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest_mod_inventory/src/branch/master/lua/hud.lua This is the file giving me trouble, the var invref does not seem to persist at all jas_: you mean when you restart the server? Krock: nephele: table references only work when you have a table to modify. invref's reference is replaced entirely by ref, if that's your problem Krock: other than that it looks good nephele: Krock, it should be replaced indeed, the returned ref is the new table of refernces to use next tick Krock: hint: "raycast:next()" may also return objects (default true) nephele: Yes i know, your code did that wrong too Krock :D, i was confused by the csm restrictions Krock: minetest.raycast(pos1, pos2, false, false) to force object detection off Krock: what my code? nephele: second false is superflous, liquid is default off nephele: Krock, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7317#issuecomment-389200128 Krock: if pointed_thing and pointed_thing.type == "node" then Krock: you're not checking whether it's a node nephele: I know, i had false as a parameter before nephele: i will re-add it nephele: my problem is the player:hud_remove calls, anyhow, my ui lib should do that itself, but the ref it gets passed is always nil... which makes no sense to me jas_: limited experience again, but, i only remove huds if i know i'll never need them again, which is like never jas_: otherwise i just hud_change nephele: yeah, that doesn't quite work nicely for my lib, trying to iterate over objects to have some re-use and then reposition them is a bit eh nephele: Wierd, now it does seem to save fine... guess my problem must be elsewhere, too Krock: print(dump(invref)) -- hud.lua line 34/35 Krock: if that's not nil, consider checking your API Krock: and if it's nil the second time, then also check your API Krock: or that is - "ui"'s API Krock: > -- remove those, and it breaks nephele: i always use dump2 :D nephele: I only added them to see if a naive aproach would work as a workaround anyhow Krock: 5.3.0-dev fixed out-of-order HUD packets, so that should no longer be a problem nephele: this is a csm, so i don't see what that has to do with it :) Krock: ah jas_: and if something was fixed/added in ssm it's not always so in CSM... what was the deal with ephemeral sounds? jas_: i never tried to see if that flag was present in csm, but i doubt it Krock: sound handling and input argument parsing should be the same for SSM and CSM nephele: Krock, https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest_mod_ui/raw/branch/master/lua/ui.lua this is the ui "lib" nephele: ah... seems i was calling ui.clear wrong :( nephele: Nice that i find that now after failing to see it severall times jas_: sometimes you just need a fresh pair of eyes :) Krock: nephele: ipairs does not work on mixed arrays nephele: What's a mixed array? Krock: numeric/string mixed indices of a table nephele: Not sure what you are trying to tell me jas_: THANK YOU KROCK nephele: the lib works fine other than my failed call :g Krock: jas_: what jas_: i always wondered jas_: ye i never used ipairs ahaha Krock: you can do ipairs on a mixed indices table, but that's not a good practice jas_: oh, yeah i have no clue what i'm doing Krock: it works in LuaJIT, but dunno about plain Lua jas_: BUT i did make a button that when you push it it flings you up with 100 velocity NetherEran: it works that way on non jit lua too Krock: NetherEran: nice to know, thanks. nephele: Is there something like drawing precedence i can use in mt? nephele: like... make sure a texture draws before text on the hud jas_: don't you just add the hud ids in the order you want them drawn? Krock: z_index jas_: or was there an option, ah that was it Krock: and no, yet you cannot modify the z-index of existing HUD elements (which are partially hardcoded) Krock: that's an issue about this nephele: Eh... it's not a nice mechanism to use nephele: Does registering the background element first work? i had basically that in gmod (but there the stuff was only for one frame anyway) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Carts: Re-add erroneously removed driver reset 133452938 https://git.io/Jf04Q (152020-05-16T17:26:28Z) yrungr: i want to learn to mod minetest. if i found some some code i wanted to experiment with, how would i go about making a mod that overrides that code with my own? minetest_operato: Hi all minetest_operato: quick question, when running a server, and changing the game (as in minetest_game --> something else) where is that specified for the world? sfan5: world.mt minetest_operato: it should be the game_id line? sfan5: gameid, yes minetest_operato: gameid* minetest_operato: that needs to match the game name of the game in the /games/ folder, correct? minetest_operato: (thanks, btw) minetest_operato: I am seeing: minetest_operato: ------------- Separator-------------2020-05-16 13:08:30: [Main]: Automatically selecting world at [/var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/worlds/world]2020-05-16 13:08:30: ERROR[Main]: Subgame [] could not be found.2020-05-16 13:08:30: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec minetest_operato: when attempting to change the gameid in the world.mt file minetest_operato: Why does the line minetest_operato: gameid = minetest instead of gameid = minetest_game or minetest_minimal? minetest_operato: I am attempting to use a custom game I made. I have entered the game folder name as in my_game_name. but when entering gameid = my_game_name it gives the above error. leo_rockway: minetest_operato: I think it needs to be defined within the game folder. In game.conf: name=my_game_name leo_rockway: but I haven't modded anything in forever, so I could be wrong. minetest_operato: leo_rockway thanks, that is what I am tweaking and testing now minetest_operato: I tried with gameid = Minimal development test that did not launch the minimal dev test game. minetest_operato: gives the same error. nephele: i think it is the game folder or something minetest_operato: i've tried that but that failed as well. gameid = my_test_game game folder name would be my_test_game and it did not launch minetest_operato: im reading forum posts about similar errors trying to determine what this could be minetest_operato: I'm going to configure my local PC with the same game from the minetest engine UI and see what the world.mt file says in it minetest_operato: give me a few mins to do this minetest_operato: so the game name is actually called saras_simple_survival_game minetest_operato: and in the game folder, in game.conf, its name is "Sara's Simple Survival Game" minetest_operato: but in the world.mt file, it gets a gameid = saras_simple_survival minetest_operato: not sure why _game is being truncated minetest_operato: but i think I've solved this. Let me test on the server minetest_operato: actually... in the local (GUI) version singleplayer test world its being generated as "saras_simple_survial" minetest_operato: with a typo. minetest_operato: what the hell. minetest_operato: wow minetest_operato: i'm retarded minetest_operato: ok ive got this minetest_operato: it does indeed seem to truncate _game from the gameid minetest_operato: but also, i misspelled my game in my repository. holy hell. minetest_operato: i can confirm that fixing these two things has resolved this issue. minetest_operato: lessons learned. thanks all. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! leo_rockway: minetest_operato: now I want to try saras_simple_survial! minetest_operato: there is a server hosted with it called "Sara's Simple Survival Server". recently i've bundled it into a game as well: https://www.notabug.org/FreeGamers/saras_simple_survival_game minetest_operato: it was intially just a huge modpack tailored for MTG minetest_operato: but i've recently reconfigured it to be a standalone game that incorporated MTG within and can be distributed as a game-pack minetest_operato: seemed to simplify the process of running it locally for players on their systems minetest_operato: ;) minetest_operato: take care, thank you once again nephele: The "zoom disabled" message is kind of annoying... zoom doesn't get disabled... it gets enabled Krock: until it's enabled it's disabled Krock: other way around nephele: It sais that a mod or game disabled the zoom nephele: which isn't the case, it just wasn't enabled nephele: and the message serves no purpose either... seem pretty clear that no zoom is occuring Krock: I think this message was/or will be changed nephele: i am on head of 5.3-dev so will be i assume jas_: hope so jas_: "zoom is disabled".... "oh how do i enable it?" "write a mod" .... ohhh, there's already one! it requires you have an item to be able to zoom... good enough? jas_: hehe, i digress it's fine. i love the map and binoculars mods jas_: particularly the subterranean eye, which i believe was removed sfan5: it was not https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=373455#p373455 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: Make automatic_rotate relative, allow setting rotation (#8468) 13c1ce4be https://git.io/Jf0Ew (152020-05-16T19:42:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Error msg if trying to teleport attached player (#9824) 13ab74568 https://git.io/Jf0Er (152020-05-16T19:41:41Z) jas_: hm, sfan5 what's that link? leo_rockway: I'm running latest dev, because that's what Crafter supports. I was playing MineClone2 and went to the neather. It generated as cobble. :( leo_rockway: that's what I get for mixing versions. Zughy: hey guuuys: can you please take part to this survey in the forum? Even core devs if they want. I have 13 entries already, I'd like to reach at least 15-20 entries before publishing the summary Zughy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24631 Zughy: I think it could help a lot understanding what's the perception of MT in the community in an orderly fashion Calinou: surveys like those are kind of /dev/nulls, to be fair Calinou: in open source projects, people work on what they want to work on rubenwardy: what for? frabbit: rubenwardy: what do u mean with what for? rubenwardy: frabbit: are you talking about codes to verify the downloads? rubenwardy: they're downloaded over HTTPS rubenwardy: there's your cert luvo: about my yesterday problem I found a mod by BlockMan in GitHub (https://github.com/BlockMen/invtweak/) that maybe can help me find the way of comparing to itemstacks! I'll keep you posted luvo: yesterday, sfan5 was talking about this I think https://github.com/BlockMen/invtweak/blob/master/init.lua#L208: the get_wild_index method. I'll check more in-depth this time MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-13 21:30 UTC The pigs are getting more boar-like with each iteration. Love it! oil_boi: Thanks texmex, 22i has created all the mobs I want to use, and blockmen has a perfect ghost model so there is no longer any need to pull my hair out learning blender oil_boi: Also, I'd like to ask, does automatic_face_movement_dir use -math.pi to math.pi or 0 to math.pi*2 ? oil_boi: Oooh no, I just tested it, it's not looking good, it's -math.pi/2 to math.pi*1.5 oil_boi: Easy fix body_yaw = self.object:get_yaw()-math.pi/2 oil_boi: Also I found that set_bone_position with {x=0,y=0,z=0} or nil as the position completely destroys the local location of the bone :L sfan5: !tell oil_boi you might wanna enable deprecated_lua_api_handling = log while developing, there's quite a few deprecated calls in Crafter that should be replaced MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around MinetestBot: oil_boi: May-15 10:31 UTC you might wanna enable deprecated_lua_api_handling = log while developing, there's quite a few deprecated calls in Crafter that should be replaced oil_boi: Ooo, thanks oil_boi: sfan5, I see in this line https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4767 it requires "name", what exactly is that referring to? sfan5: e.g. minetest.get_mapgen_setting("mgv7_flags") oil_boi: Ahh, ty oil_boi: Aw man, still returns nil with https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4775 "mgv7_flags" sfan5: you wouldn't use it with mgv7_flags sfan5: but e.g. mgv7_np_dungeons sfan5: (take a look into map_meta.txt) oil_boi: Holy crap we can directly access the mg settings now that's crazy sfan5: btw sfan5: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1042418/82045239-09700180-96af-11ea-9e6d-09d7a5b12841.png sfan5: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1042418/82045242-0d038880-96af-11ea-8a7a-c8dde15680a2.png sfan5: do you see a difference here and which do you prefer? oil_boi: Number 2 seems to have better color and shadows sfan5: the colors are exactly the same but yeah I agree oil_boi: It looks more alive, also the saturation seems to look better even though the colors are exactly the same, shadows have that effect oil_boi: Is this an upcoming merge? sfan5: just a different default value for a setting we've had since 2016 oil_boi: How would I try this in my own client? sfan5: ambient_occlusion_gamma = 1.4 oil_boi: https://i.imgur.com/Z6MZL3J.png 0.25 https://i.imgur.com/rQpNIqt.png 1.4 oil_boi: Err, 0.25 = default, this is 0.25 https://i.imgur.com/ikaJWNg.png sfan5: 0.25 is a bit extreme yeah oil_boi: It looks like an ENB oil_boi: Hopefully this gets rid of most of the deprecated calls and the Aether, Void, and Nether now have seeds that match the world generation, or completely random if fails oil_boi: https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/commit/269bce7c4c3d21206f3d0ba51b3967338ad45e70 sfan5: with mob spawning disabled it gets a lot harder to find food sfan5: or is that because I ran /clearobjects? oil_boi: No spawning is disabled currently, I'm completely rewriting everything in the api to make mobs actually intelligent and use pathfinding, also going to implement a global mob table so that spawning gets disabled once a certain amount of mobs are loaded based on the number of players currently in the game oil_boi: You gotta make a farm for now sfan5: >stone how is made from stone not cobble sfan5: ???? sfan5: hoe* oil_boi: Whoops, welp that's fixed now * oil_boi: wonders if the hoes break too fast oil_boi: also sfan5 if you'd like to test the head tracking you can do /spawn creeper or /spawn pig or even /spawn phyg sfan5: looks its working sfan5: it walks in circles and directly looks at me for half the circle oil_boi: You might have to git pull and you must have the server privelage, they kinda just go in a circle for now oil_boi: W000 sfan5: you added mob spawners for dungeons yet? luvo: > it walks in circles and directly looks at me luvo: that's a little creepy oil_boi: sfan5 just wait until they have pathfinding, then you're really gonna think they're creepy oil_boi: Also no, I was trying to find a way to bake that into the engine dungeon spawning, maybe a decoration? sfan5: not sure that would work sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/dungeon_loot/mapgen.lua luvo: hahahahahaha luvo: I feel like a kid watching two adults talk oil_boi: Well good! Programming should be fun luvo: it is, for sure! texmex: oil_boi: You're adding uphill water streams now? :) oil_boi: texmex uphill waterstreams? texmex: Ah no, it was just https://i.imgur.com/ikaJWNg.png looking like it when in fact it was the rain. oil_boi: Hahaha, that might be possible actually texmex: Yes, just spawn some individual water nodes into stone, I guess. texmex: On that note, how do you feel about stream water eroding the top grass layer so that hills don't get overflown by water? texmex: Basically this thing http://g.recordit.co/zxJRNB8141.gif , instead of this thing https://i.imgur.com/MHkQcdo.jpg luvo: it looks interesting texmex texmex: I've always wanted a decorations-like node placement function but in 3D instead of topview 2D. Basically it would be nice to be able to "place water in stone, with air neighbour nodes in horizontal direction" and you'll target vertical surfaces etc. texmex: Would certainly be useful in this case, but other cases too ofc. oil_boi: That might eat up a bit of CPU, but I can try to make it efficient, how is that done? I couldn't find a way for a "on_construct workaround" to implement something like that for lava cooling sfan5: on_flood exists, but it doesn't get called for air sfan5: so what you *could* do is register an airlike node that is always placed above lava, this node will then have its on_flood called which you can use to implement lavacooling sfan5: it's not a very good workaround tho oil_boi: I just wish there was a way to hook into the liquid flow algorithm, or to have it done in c++, so that when the liquid flows, it will call the on_flow function, but I do not know how that code works so I could be misinterpreting it texmex: The gif is made with this old geezer https://github.com/tacotexmex/floodables texmex: It makes the node floodable, which is of course destructive when applied to normal water but perhaps hill streams could be made of a special water node. oil_boi: Hmmm, very interesting implementation, what if the water itself was floodable? ANAND: I remember reading somewhere that setting liquids as floodable would cause issues NetherEran: imma try out quickly what actually happens ANAND: :D texmex: Remember safety glasses luvo: and mask... at least this days texmex: sfan5: Why even fake air? Why not just a certain logic when the on_flood runs? The on_flood doesn't even have to flood the floodable necessarily. sfan5: on_flood of what exactly? it is only called when liquid replaces a node that is not air oil_boi: huh self.object:get_texture_mod() is a nil value texmex: Uh, right. Lava is liquid too xD texmex: Too slow in the head. NetherEran: ok I tried it NetherEran: I instantly caught fire NetherEran: Actually I didn't notice a difference texmex: Seems like on_flood calls are not executed when applied to liquids. ANAND: That's interesting ANAND: Here's the warning: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L7182 ANAND: Probably outdated texmex: Would be useful to be able to define what specific liquid a node was to be floodable by. texmex: …but that can probably be baked into the on_flood function itself. ANAND: Yeah yrungr: is it correct that a minetest server only runs on a single core, but can use threads? sfan5: not exactly sfan5: (depending on what exactly you mean by that terminology) sfan5: The main business of a server happens in a single thread but Minetest makes use of multi-threading for e.g. map generation and loading the map from disk. yrungr: gotcha. yrungr: thanks sfan5. oil_boi: Oof oof oof _Zaizen_: Hi everyone I'm having a little bit of troubles with entities. I want to be able to spawn an entity with some properties and after that spawn the same entity but this time i've changed some properties. the problem is that if i change the properties in the register entity it changes the properties of all enemies included the ones already spawned of that type. _Zaizen_: Does anyuone have an idea on how to handle this problem? NetherEran: In the on_activate callback you can do a local props = self.object:get_properties() and change what you want to change. Then you can self.object:set_properties(props) to apply the changes. _Zaizen_: Thanks for the suggestion, I will try this and see if it works for what I have to do. Miniontoby: hello Miniontoby: hows it going guys? luvo_: Hello! Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905&p=372834#p372834 Miniontoby: I need help Miniontoby: plz someone Miniontoby: who knows to what channel rubenwardy's servers are connected to * ANAND: hides Miniontoby: lol oil_boi: sfan5 I thought you'd like this https://youtu.be/H1E-CPS4X94?t=157 * Miniontoby: will roll a dice ANAND: Ho ho ho, that's sweet! Miniontoby: wowo sfan5: oil_boi: just like in the old days :D * Miniontoby: subscribed ANAND: > phyg ANAND: !! :O Miniontoby: back * Miniontoby: Gooit een dobbelsteen met 6 vlakken en krijgt 4 * Miniontoby: roll a dice * Miniontoby: Rolls a 6 sided dice and gets 5 luvo_: lol, that creeper is a catapult Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: lol Miniontoby: yes oil_boi: sfan5 Yeah :D I'm sure there's a way to create stages for the flashing to happen faster as it ticks down Miniontoby: a kind of like angrybirds oil_boi: luvo_ creeperpult! Miniontoby: lol Miniontoby: but can anyone help me with https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905&p=372834#p372834 Miniontoby: I want to let it be working Miniontoby: it is on an rpi Miniontoby: I have my own local irc server Miniontoby: where I want it to be connected to Miniontoby: and if I buy a server then thats inpossible Miniontoby: lol Miniontoby: /cycle is funny Miniontoby: need to stop for now oil_boi: toby noooo it was right here https://github.com/minetest-mods/irc#installing luvo_: too late... luvo_: :( _Zaizen_: NetherEran: unfortunately it doesn't work really well for what i'm doing because I need a timer on the entities so there is still the problem that when an entity change it's timer every timer change. _Zaizen_: Oh, maybe I found the solution. luvo__: oil_boi love the bounce of the arrow when it impacts with a node haha oil_boi: Thanks! I wish I could find an easy way to make it get stuck in the node, I'll have to look in my old code from mystic luvo__: mystic was an old mod you did? luvo__: is it the mod you talks in the video about "testing mod"? oil_boi: Yes it was this junk https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/Mystic oil_boi: I wonder if there is a way for me to hack in players skins downloading automatically when they join the game, I don't know if the game engine can dynamically load in textures though luvo__: all I know is that unified_inventory lets you change your skin in-game (don't really now if that is what you are asking) texmex: oil_boi: If you’re pulling a texture defined with with only texture modifiers I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able. luvo__: I just realized (re-reading the api) that what sfan5 told me about (get_wield_index) is a method for the user (hurray for me!), but I tried `get_wield_list`, `get_wielded_item` and `get_wielded_index`: the first two methos worked, but the index one, says "attempt to call method 'get_wielded_index' (a nil value)". Any idea why it is reporting me nil? (I'm using this in the `after_use` tool callback thanks in advance! sfan5: I believe it's called get_wield_index instead luvo__: yeah, nice re-reading, Luvo luvo__: thank you again sfan5 luvo__: sorry for that luvo__: like, I just wrote right at the start of the question luvo__: smh oil_boi: texmex do you know of an example of this? texmex: oil_boi: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=22867 texmex: In the case we’re talking about it’s simpler on the MT side, instead a conversion from a PNG image to ”a crap-ton of texture modifiers” needs to happen in an external server component able to reply to HTTP calls from MT, sending the crap-long texture string back. (possibly compressed with minimum characters, then decompressed once inside MT) oil_boi: Oh thank you, let's see what I can do with that MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Carts: Reset player view and attachment table on death 13b787fcf https://git.io/JfRaZ (152020-05-15T17:04:38Z) luvo__: I finally did what I wanted yay! Thank you very one! luvo__: I finally did what I wanted yay! Thank you very one! oil_boi: You're welcome! Even though I didn't do anything luvo__: hahahah luvo__: oops, double message sorry oil_boi: ok texmex I will make the hud display the selected item, but WITH A TWIST https://youtu.be/4LGu1sOvxYs?t=63 luvo: chan chan chaaaan oil_boi: yeee luvo_: mmm... has http://git.minetest.org/minetest/minetest anything to do with this minetest? I mean, are you contributing there too? or is it other's people Krock: No, that's an unofficial fork luvo_: thx! sfan5: the person who manages that has a tendency to stalk and harass people so I recommend staying away sfan5: it's also forked from an somewhat old version of Minetest luvo_: thank you for the advice luvo_: I just found voxelands and finished there oil_boi: texmex https://i.imgur.com/TlskMe8.png texmex: oil_boi: my boi oil coming through! leo_rockway: hello minetesters. leo_rockway: any chance that anybody would be willing to give this another look? It was opened 5 years ago and the last post is from 2 years ago: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2399 leo_rockway: it's about liquid flow being unpredictable oil_boi: yeeee oil_boi: leo_rockway is there a space below that lava node? leo_rockway: oil_boi: I don't recall the specifics. All I know is that I have a Skyblock map and the cobble generator works one way, but not the other. oil_boi: What does that mean leo_rockway oil_boi: do you have a picture? leo_rockway: oil_boi: this comment from Wuzzy does: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2399#issuecomment-303485009 oil_boi: oh THIS ISSUE oil_boi: oh god leo_rockway: yes, it's super old leo_rockway: it messes with me every time I try to make a cobble generator, that's why I bring it up. leo_rockway: oil_boi: thanks for the bump in the issue :D oil_boi: I figured it out, it's based on viscosity leo_rockway: oil_boi: you figured out as in you have a fix? leo_rockway: it out* oil_boi: No wait it's not leo_rockway: it would be weird if it were based on viscosity, because it works in 3 directions. oil_boi: That is very VERY weird, that is 2 nodes away will not flow over water, viscosity 7, but at 5 it will, water will flow over lava regardless of distance oil_boi: Also leo_rockway I will absolutely not have a fix haha leo_rockway: oh, so viscosity does make a difference then. nephele: oil_boi, damn, need to find a new dealer :P leo_rockway: oil_boi: man, I was going to say, ticket's open 5 years and you fix it in seconds! oil_boi: All I can do is show it in a video leo_rockway: that might not be a bad way to bump that issue. leo_rockway: if I try to run minetest and capture video at the same time my laptop turns into a toaster oven. oil_boi: No wait, it's actually working properly in my game with nether lava and main lava oil_boi: I forgot I restricted main lava flow to 3 nodes oil_boi: Also nephele the only thing I deal is bugs nephele: wait, you make the bugs in minetest? oil_boi: Maybe someone accidentally fixed in in 5.3 dev?? oil_boi: Oh yes leo_rockway: https://i.imgur.com/66gHvue.png leo_rockway: https://i.imgur.com/cc754Zk.png leo_rockway: same exact set up, just rotated leo_rockway: in the first one, water never flows and cobble is not generated. leo_rockway: I don't think I ever changed the flow of water or lava in my setup. leo_rockway: this is mineclone2, but I could replicate the same thing in minetest game. leo_rockway: in fact, I'll try and do that now. leo_rockway: from minetest game: https://i.imgur.com/U9YWZPz.png leo_rockway: same cobblestone generator setup, except in one water flows one way and in the other one the opposite way. One works, the other one doesn't. oil_boi: https://i.imgur.com/yBJRT4o.png oil_boi: Crafter has a tweaked config though leo_rockway: so the water is going sideways for you? oil_boi: dedicated_server_step = 0.01 oil_boi: No it's meeting up normally leo_rockway: did you try rotating the same setup? leo_rockway: oh, and I see that the meat pops decrease from left to right in crafter. Mineclone2 needs that! oil_boi: Every direction, it's weird I can't replicate it https://imgur.com/a/tnbgZq0 oil_boi: Also yes, symmetry is important! oil_boi: Also in this image, it's probably happening because it does a binary check in all directions +1x -1x, +1z -1z and it's breaking the loop after the first check fails, maybe oil_boi: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17685062/37201183-3a1709e8-2387-11e8-910b-73582f8a03ae.jpeg leo_rockway: it doesn't explain my image, though. oil_boi: Your image is probably the "politeness problem" one wants to flow before the other in code, therefore neither does, this is in combination with the 2 generals problem localized within memory space oil_boi: The only solution to fixing this code is that one must flow overriding the other on the loop that calculates new flowing nodes leo_rockway: I'm surprised it only happens in one direction. oil_boi: Oof, that was too much brame wurk 4 tday leo_rockway: it's Friday! oil_boi: Yes, that will happen, I have no idea how the flow code works, but if entities automatic_facedir_rotation or whatever the variable is ranges from -math.pi/2 to math.pi*1.5 then anything is possible oil_boi: Also my favorite part about that is if you set automatic_facedir_rotation to 0 then it's still turned 90 degrees to the right in code oil_boi: because math.pi/2 is 90 degrees in literal leo_rockway: this is why I'm not a programmer. This stuff does hurt my brain. leo_rockway: I can script admin stuff, I'm fine with that. oil_boi: Oh dude, it took me like 3 hours to translate the radians in degrees then work from there, f*** combining the yaw of the body with the yaw of the head while setting the head rotation and working around the set_bone_pos bug which breaks it's position in the animation nephele: if you wanna do movement in a 3d game you gotta expect some vector math :P oil_boi: Oh yes nephele I do, but not when a random issue like that is coming up, very blah leo_rockway: I dropped out of compsci and got a translator degree instead. nephele: I think i'll implement my focus code again as a csm, funnily enough i only wanted to get a bully-like aim thingy for fighting nephele: only figured out later that it is basically a literal aimbot haha nephele: ah, i remember why i didn't yet, i don't think csm has any call to set the camera angle :g oil_boi: csm is in the state the Minetest 0.4.8 was, but that will change, eventually, everyone is working very hard on it since it creates extreme amounts of aesthetic possibilities and creativity that cannot be achieved over packets through a network connection nephele: oil_boi, server send csms will be nice... can then finally remove all the useless formspec garbage i have and generate them locally :g (currently make formspecs for all machines that run in like the formspec string, like the mtg furnace does, but ideally i shouldn't need to :D) oil_boi: Oh you already can nephele: yeah, packaging is somewhat annoying though oil_boi: But it requires a bit of work nephele: I suppose i should just do a client-side part for the gamemode and tell people to install it or smth oil_boi: It honestly does not matter how annoying the packaging is, look at Windows 95, if your code is good enough, people will use it nephele: its orders of magnitude worse than garrys mod for instance, i certainly dont have the patience to manually manage activations of clientside mods for specific servers i want to play on nephele: i guess its fine for people that only ever play on one or two servers, but bah nephele: although i should probably start regardless, eventually it will be there and i would have a csm ready, then :P oil_boi: Eventually the csm will be exported to your client when you join the server, or join your singleplayer world, the csm currently is just a prototype, with csm downloaded automatically modding the code in memory will be so ultra extremely difficult a skilled hacker would have trouble modifying lua code in memory space oil_boi: So yes, you should practice on this CSM prototype, even if you have to make a server mod just to load textures nephele: Well, in gmod you only had to say "include these textures", which you already can by having them in the textures folder, so not much work there :P oil_boi: Yes, gmod is using source, which is an overhaul of quake with blink video and havock built on top of it with a lua api slapped on top of it, it was also developed by quite a few very well paid people that spent only their working hours creating it and directly being in communication with each other nephele: I know it's history, it's api for client / server mods was really nice though oil_boi: You are now on a project developed by ... 412 people, half of which do not come online anymore nephele: mods are simply both, with one part beeing on the server and one on the client, checkable by globals nephele: oil_boi, sure... i can still take it as a reference though oil_boi: Very true nephele: I think it did that part of its lua api really well, i do miss it a bit :P oil_boi: I think the problem with "include these textures" is the fact that someone could hack that to run "include this exe" nephele: almost had a working lock-less (in the gameplay sense of not taking away camera control) inventory system ... :( oil_boi: A lock-less inventory? nephele: I hoped the brackets explained what i ment :g nephele: gmod, or atleast the servers i played on, is generally still an fps shoort, interacting with inventories with your mouse can be quite bad since it takes away your movement controls and power to look around in that game.. i instead opted to use like the numpad and so to navigate it oil_boi: Oh that's quite easy to do nephele: I didn't claim it was hard nephele: Just that the pre-made UI thingies generally only did mouse control, and bad one at that, so had to make the inventory i wanted from primitives mostly so made a tiny layouting thing in lua oil_boi: You must simply make a hud that emulates an inventory, with specific slots creating sub elements, and you must get the last position of get_wield_index and then combine that with your modified hud, and then create a drop down reference for the client to utilize, and have a timer to timeout showing the hud oil_boi: I will make this in a little while nephele: I disagree with a timeout, and i have no idea what you mean with a drop down nephele: i will make this either way, i mostly have the code already :P oil_boi: https://screenshots.gamebanana.com/img/ss/guis/5a7078c8d049c.jpg oil_boi: This? nephele: Just a bit bumped that minetestes way to get keybindings is so awfully limited nephele: oil_boi: what do you mean? oil_boi: Or do you mean this? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/G78T31k8uqE/maxresdefault.jpg nephele: I honestly don't know what either of those should be nephele: I am talking about a HUD displaying inventories of items only while you look at it nephele: so you can interact with the keyboard while looking at them oil_boi: Then I have no idea what you mean ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nephele: Well, the closest analogy i know is fallout4 quick-loot, if you know that oil_boi: YES oil_boi: Make that shit happen oil_boi: How about we do this oil_boi: nephele https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9871 nephele: I had a tiny ui layouting thingy for gmod, i think i can port it to minetest rather easily, should be able to make something like quickloot with that https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/glua-mod-ui/src/branch/master/lua/ui.lua oil_boi: How about you ping that or DM that to a core developer directly? I am just a simple api game dev nephele: ping what? oil_boi: A rather annoying one tbh hahaha, well do stuff like this: sfan5 sfan5: I can say one thing: that bug you opened is probably a duplicate oil_boi: See what I told you nephele? nephele: i think that more keybindings would be nice is known :D oil_boi: Very annoying not looking through duplicate problems nephele: I can't make duplicate tickets if i don't open tickets *taps forehead* oil_boi: Don't worry, I've done that for you :D nephele: Anyway, I'll work on this tommorow, feel free to ping me about that in case i forget (I think with the keys i can use currently i atleast have a basic one to make), should sleep now to try and maintain a normal sleepcycle :g oil_boi: Alright I'm done being a butthole oil_boi: Also definitely do not approve that as it allows access to creating keyloggers combined with the http modding api, so I will close it now sfan5: >// if this node is not (yet) of a liquid type, choose the first liquid type we encounter sfan5: ok who thought this was a good idea sfan5: the reason that the lava refuses to flow that way is that the liquid code finds the water first and operates on the assumption that the water wants to flow there oil_boi: SO IT IS a 2 generals problem localized oil_boi: Also that's why my custom water flows properly? sfan5: what exactly does "custom" mean? oil_boi: main:water not default:water sfan5: doesn't make a difference oil_boi: Then why does it work?? sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ oil_boi: Does it make a specific call to namespace default:water or default:water_flow? leo_rockway: sfan5: this bug's lived for half of the life of minetest. It would be a great celebration and people will rejoice once it's fixed. leo_rockway: Minetest turns 10 years old in November, if I'm not mistaken. This bug was opened in 2015. oil_boi: If you guys want a real headache: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9872 oil_boi: Just thought I'd add petrol to the inferno leo_rockway: but how viscous is that petrol, oil_boi ? oil_boi: As thick as the oil I'm made of yo oil_boi: I think I need to relearn cpp so I can create horrific monstrosities of merge requests that someone will end up fixing, again oil_boi: Oh no, I just got 3 ideas at once leo_rockway: I think I'm too old to actually learn cpp. And too unmotivated to learn it. I can deal with Lua in small dosis. sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9874 sfan5: and now it is be time to go to bed sfan5: s/is be/is/ * leo_rockway: highfives sfan5 oil_boi: have a good one sfan5 leo_rockway: goodnight oil_boi: leo_rockway do you think it would be cool if we could set the digging/placing animation speed? and change the animation based on if the item is a node or a tool/item? leo_rockway: oil_boi: I do. I actually mentioned it in the Mineclone2 forum thread, I believe. The digging animation in minecraft is much faster and it looks more dynamic. leo_rockway: but, I can request stuff as much as I want, but I feel like a freeloader doing so, haha. leo_rockway: although I feel like I contributed a bit by poking that one liquid flow issue today. oil_boi: leo_rockway https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9876 leo_rockway: I had an idea for a game for a long time. Basically, you crashlanded in the minetest planet and you need to craft the parts of your spaceship to be able to return to your planet. oil_boi: This is the best I could do with quite a few beers in me leo_rockway: nice oil_boi: The MC animation of placing nodes has always stuck with me, same with the digging speeds on tools. I may have created the digging/placing animation, but I always wanted a custom variable to control it leo_rockway: I think there should be room for custom animations. Like eating, drinking, shooting, playing an instrument, etc. leo_rockway: imagine an ocarina mod :) sfan5: there, fixed it in the situation Wuzzy reported there too oil_boi: Very nice sfan5 jas_: openal supports jack too blaise: https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9IghiTBosULziuEo/giphy.gif jas_: !title MinetestBot: jas_: Project Summary: Factoids - Open Hub jas_: hm jas_: it picked up the title from hub jas_: sfan5: fyi sfan5: the last_seen_url is global yes sfan5: I'm too lazy to change this jas_: aha, good to know :D jas_: thx jas_: https://www.openhub.net/p/minetest-c55/factoids was the link jas_: for anyone curious, looks interesting freelikegnu: interesting... "Language: “Mostly written in [main language]”" jas_: real facts jas_: i like the part about the mature development team, and the use of comments yrungr: i'm having trouble with the minetest android app. it doesn't seem to retain text when i'm trying to enter server, name and password. anyone else experience this? jas_: the only thing i can think of is to make sure the server list is loaded before entering text; but i'm unsure that's the issue jas_: i say that because on PC the server list loading resets the text fields. jas_: it's very often i type my password, only to have it disappear once the list is loaded into the menu yrungr: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.minetest.minetest&hl=en_GB&reviewId=gp%3AAOqpTOFXqioBUkbFSmxx6PPlGQH6DceBAq6_BuvIdlHoMBA0sn1eWP9gA_iU-QZmBeYzJfD0X73YZT89hASPiA yrungr: apparently this is a know problem. yrungr: damn. jas_: wow that is a problem, i'm atest now. i did log into my server recently to try and it worked fine jas_: i am using the beta app however, if that makes a difference jas_: oh that is the beta version im using yrungr: quite a few of those reviews mention that you cant input text. yrungr: so it's basically useless right now. :) jas_: i am connected and was able enter text to change my name jas_: !server jastest MinetestBot: jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 1/15, 0/1 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / jastest | Ping: 134ms jas_: i am logged in as 'worksforme' yrungr: jas_: on android app? jas_: which i typed on my phone, yes yrungr: weird. jas_: idk versions, but i think is a recent android ver jas_: stylo5 jas_: i might try later on an older phone *heads outside for fresh air* yrungr: i'm on a fairly new pixel. jas_: bizarre, try changing text input keyboard? jas_: i really know so little about mobile devices and operating systems jas_: the hardest part for me is differenciating between actions, eg, RMB versus double-tap .. i wonder if there's a halfway decent measure to detect mobile clients eatdicks: Hello! jas_: greetings, and salutations! eatdicks: thx! jas_: tho i suspect some may take issue with your username, it's nice to make your acquaintance jas_: oh yrungr: charming. jas_: yrungr: for what it's worth jas_: i did get one misfire (out of about ten) that didn't update text jas_: i suspect there may be a diffrence between "done" and "send" buttons? yrungr: interesting. jas_: do you see two buttons, one on the input keyboard, and on ein the text field? yrungr: thanks for that. jas_: it works for both for me, but once on the text field "done" button it did not jas_: it wasn't constant tho so i got no other clues, but still wonder about keyboard jas_: u know how u can install different keyboards? jas_: gboard, eg yrungr: i've actually plugged a real keyboard into my phone using a usb c adaptor. jas_: hacker keyboard is another one jas_: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard&hl=en_US yrungr: ok. it let me type in the server this time, but the user name failed. jas_: are you trying both input buttons? jas_: maybe it doesn't make a difference, but since MT text input on android is SO FUCKED yrungr: i'm pressing enter on a real keyboard jas_: i believe it may jas_: oh * jas_: heads back out for more fresh air good luck and best wishes o/ o7 yrungr: thanks. :) yrungr: enjoy your fresh air. yrungr: hmm. if i click on the text field and it opens a box i have no luck, but if i use tab to get to those fields i can enter text. :) yrungr: i'm in! :D amaniel: Hi all amaniel: Wow I never know this much people play MineClone amaniel: I mean Minetest jas_: lol! so i just did a queen-side castle in xdecor chessboard jas_: hmmm i wonder how to fix jas_: it goes three over jas_: !title https://github.com/minetest-mods/xdecor/issues/120 MinetestBot: jas_: queen-side castle is incorrect · Issue #120 · minetest-mods/xdecor · GitHub SirTalksAlot: Umm how do I put this SirTalksAlot: How do I instal a internat realy protocal on minetest SirTalksAlot: So anything said on the irc will show up on minetest server? SirTalksAlot: :( any help? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest-mods/irc/ SirTalksAlot: Thanks SirTalksAlot: sfan5 sfan5: ? SirTalksAlot: What do I do after git submodule init sfan5: aren't there instructions? jas_: called readme jas_: and some forum threads you can search jas_: irc logs if you really wanna dig jas_: recompiling in five minutes jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Converter [converter] WIP by auouymous - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14709 - https://github.com/auouymous/converter MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Item Entity: Add message to moveresult assertion (#9797) 132d7e000 https://git.io/JfBVJ (152020-05-14T15:54:17Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Add chat_log_level setting (#9223) 13836dd4a https://git.io/JfBKt (152020-05-14T17:26:15Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04TheTermos -> 03minetest/minetest: Collision detection - #9343 follow-up (#9764) 136ef7ad0 https://git.io/JfBK3 (152020-05-14T17:28:27Z) luvo: Hello everyone! heavygale: hello luvo luvo: I have a question about moding. is this the correct place to ask it? luvo: So... I'm trying to create a simple mod to search in the inventory for a similar tool when the one you are using breaks. So this is the code I have for now (the simplest for learning how to use the override_item function. This is the code https://pastebin.com/i99ez6yq but it throw an error when running minetest_game which is: Attempt to override non-existent item default:shovel_wood. Any idea why it is giving me this error? luvo: The only thing that comes to mind is that the tool is registered after loading the mods, but it has no sense for me... sfan5: the tool is being registered after *your* mod runs sfan5: to avoid that add a dependency on default sfan5: then you mod will run after default and after the shovel has been registered sfan5: your* MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: CSM: Bugfixes to camera:get_pos() and camera:get_fov() 1336d35f2 https://git.io/JfBXK (152020-05-14T19:16:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: network: Replace a fatal_error with just error logging 13d76785b https://git.io/JfBXP (152020-05-14T19:18:26Z) luvo: thank thank you very much @sfan5! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Add new Mapgen V7 floatland implementation (#9296) 13af0f7ac https://git.io/JfBS4 (152020-05-14T21:27:54Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add new dry shrub texture by Extex101 (#2680) 13b3d91a4 https://git.io/JfBSM (152020-05-14T21:33:53Z) FrostRanger: I have an issue where mt does not play sound nor even shows up in pulseaudio on bluestar linux (basically arch with kde) sfan5: does the client print anything that might seem related to the issue? FrostRanger: sfan5: nope sfan5: minetest version? FrostRanger: sfan5: 5.2.0 sfan5: what if you run it with --verbose FrostRanger: sfan5: sorry, here you go, don't see anything that throws a red flag though: https://gitlab.com/FrostRanger/verbose/-/blob/master/verbose sfan5: asks me to sign in FrostRanger: sfan5: sorry, let me make it public FrostRanger: sfan5: try it now sfan5: the first 200 or so lines would have proabably sufficed FrostRanger: sfan5: sorry, didn't know how much you needed FrostRanger: wanted to err on the side of caution sfan5: I can't find anything related to audio which is ... weird FrostRanger: and mt is the only program giving me issues as well sfan5: do you have enable_sound = false in your config perhaps? FrostRanger: nope, one of the first things I checked sfan5: try putting enable_sound = true there? FrostRanger: .... FrostRanger: and somehow it did get disabled since then... sfan5: I really don't see any way this can happen without showing up in the log FrostRanger: that fixed it, thx Zughy: wow, you core devs are on fire today: that PR number is decreasing by the minute MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add wild cotton plant in savanna as a source of cotton seeds (#2617) 13e5a7af1 https://git.io/JfBQ6 (152020-05-14T22:49:17Z) luvo: Hello again everyone! I'm struggling a bit with a related topic before. Is there any way inside `after_use` function (from minetest.register_tool) having the itemstack used on_dig to get the index in the user inventory? sfan5: look into get_wield_index sfan5: if nothing works out you can always search for the exact item in hotbar luvo: The thing is I've been testing some options, like using the itemstack:get_metadata():equals method, or comparing the itemstacks one to the other. I'll check the method you told met luvo: thank you again! luvo: it seems that get_wield_index from ObjectRef is only for moving objects luvo: I'm checking for a pixaxe frabbit: am i blind or arent there any gpg keys and checksums for engine and game? gpcf: I got two questions gpcf: a) does clearobjects persist over server restarts minetest_player_: hi... i want to keep my minetest worlds on an external hard drive, including during gameplay. i'm running opensuse leap and installed MT and MTG from the regular package management minetest_player_: i wouldn't mind also keeping games and mods on the drive Glorfindel: are you having issues figuring out how to do this or? minetest_player_: yea minetest_player_: there isn't anything about it in the settings Glorfindel: ahh Glorfindel: is this a server or just client-side? minetest_player_: just the client Glorfindel: ah Glorfindel: you should be able to specify what world to open by launching from command line Glorfindel: or terminal or whatever Glorfindel: otherwise there may be a setting to change the default storage folders, but I'm not sure as this isn't something I've ever wanted to do :) minetest_player_: i figured it was likely a command line option Glorfindel: I can get you the command line option, hang on one sec Glorfindel: hm, I'm not sure it's working like I thought it would minetest_player_: ah minetest_player_: it's not a big deal minetest_player_: thanks for looking around for it :) Glorfindel: the option I was thinking of is --world, but you might have to use that to set up a server and connect to it locally Glorfindel: a bit of a run around but should work fine :) minetest_player_: that's what I thought about doing, just setting up a server located on the drive and then connecting to it minetest_player_: i'll probably end up doing that ANAND: I use symlinks for this purpose ANAND: I have multiple builds pointing at the same worlds and mods directories, and symlinks fit the bill perfectly. freelikegnu: is there a way to check if the player is wielding something without causing a crash? freelikegnu: both get_wield_index() and get_wielded_item() will crash if I use them to check freelikegnu: nvm... I'm the buggy one freelikegnu: minetest is helping me discover my inner masochist gh00p: Should a version 5.1 client be able to communicate with a version 5.2 server? gh00p: Just wondering, if I set up a server with the current version, what will happen to clients on Android, since Google Play currently has v 5.0, and f-droid has 5.1. Hawk777: gh00p: I’m not an expert but I think yes, I think v0.4-to-v5 was the only recent break in client/server compatibility. gh00p: Thanks. Elouin: gh00p: I played like 2 weeks with 5.1 on my 5.2 server, because wasnt updated in the repos immediatly. Worked without errors. gh00p: Great, thanks. jas_: !title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70uGrXG1S20 MinetestBot: jas_: jastest - YouTube jas_: dunno why my duckdns wasn't working, oh well sfan5: appears to be broken right now jas_: tyvm sfan5: if you have a linux system you can try dig +trace www.duckdns.org and see that it totally fails jas_: oh thank you, i was wondering about that! sfan5: ...except it appears that it has just been fixed jas_: i'm gonna wait because it was doing it off/on last two days i think jas_: hm i wonder what package dig is in hehe sfan5: bind-tools or something similar jas_: oh good thanks jas_: dnsutils jas_: (debian) jas_: cool, that's good to know thanks again. working now but like i said it's been up and down so i'ma wait and see jas_: ^5 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04yamanq -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow placing auto-rotating nodes on other nodes in on_rightclick (#9… 136c607e2 https://git.io/Jf4CI (152020-05-13T11:57:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest: Document inf value in rollback commands (#9789) 134e997e9 https://git.io/Jf4CL (152020-05-13T11:56:26Z) Zughy: oh yes dennisjenkins: Hello Wuzzy. I have ported the latest pipeworks (from contentdb, not from VanessaE's gitlab) to hades. There are a few minor bugs, but I like it for an alpha port. dennisjenkins: Are you interested in replacing the legacy pipeworks in hades w/ the one that I have? Wuzzy: hmm idk. post a link and i look at it dennisjenkins: Mine adds sorting tubes, vacuum tubes, and fixes ability for the filter thingy to extract from chests and furances, and the furnace auto-ignites when it has fuel + burnables. dennisjenkins: ok, I'll have to tar it up. Its not in any revision control yet. dennisjenkins: I have a few TODOs in the code, and a "TODO" file listing bugs and things not yet ported. dennisjenkins: http://www.ecoligames.com/~djenkins/Games/minetest/hades-pipeworks.tar.gz dennisjenkins: My main concern is that it will drift from the canonical pipeworks, and won't benefit from bug fixes there. dennisjenkins: I have an idea on how to abstract some things so that the core pipeworks code won't care about 'default' vs 'hades_core'. dennisjenkins: But IDK if Vanessa would be interested. She ignored my DM. dennisjenkins: If we truly fork it away from the original pipeworks, I thought that we might rename the mod to 'hades-pipes' so that there is no confusion. dennisjenkins: and split the "tubes" from the "pipes". dennisjenkins: There is a lot of opportunity for code cleanup in there. dennisjenkins: its a bit of a mess w/ lots of layering violations. dennisjenkins: and I did not see any unit tests either. SirTalksAlot: This is official minetest irc? SirTalksAlot: Anyways how do I make my own server SirTalksAlot: and have a irc realay SirTalksAlot: : SirTalksAlot: :) SirTalksAlot: OwO is everyone sleeping? heavygale: nope VanessaE: dennisjenkins: I'd be fine with merge requests and such as long as hades-specific stuff is in its own file, i.e. a compat.lua sort of thing SirTalksAlot: !!!!! SirTalksAlot: VanessaE!!!!!!!!1 SirTalksAlot: Is here! SirTalksAlot: Wow SirTalksAlot: This is very cool SirTalksAlot: huge fan * VanessaE: stashes some of SirTalksAlot's !'s in a box for later VanessaE: hi./ VanessaE: er, ok VanessaE: dennisjenkins: by which, I mean I want to avoid any "favoritism"/"bias" toward any one game (other than mtg natch) rubenwardy: should also apply to MTG rubenwardy: have a file for each game in a folder called porting rubenwardy: then you can be sure that it's solid VanessaE: well I'm not opposed to that either rubenwardy: ie: to add a new game, you could just copy mtg porting file and change it for the game rubenwardy: or any other I gues VanessaE: but sine mtg is all I ever use as a base, it's up to dennisjenkins to come up with that kind of abstraction :) VanessaE: since* VanessaE: I guess SirTalksAlot's brain segfaulted when I spoke up :P VanessaE: as for layering violations, I'm not sure what that means. unit tests? HAH! I'm too lazy to even figure out how to write such things :P sfan5: !seen extex MinetestBot: sfan5: extex was last seen at 2020-05-12 15:52:02 UTC on #minetest Krock: i.e. yesterday sfan5: !mod itemframes MinetestBot: sfan5: Item frames and pedestal [itemframes] by Zeg9 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=5600 - https://github.com/Zeg9/minetest-itemframes sfan5: isn't there a newer mod that does this? VanessaE: there is, by sofar, but it's less flexible VanessaE: don't remember it's name though VanessaE: its* sfan5: searching for item_frames find that one sfan5: searching for pedestals brings up this?! https://github.com/Shakajiub/minetest-itemframes VanessaE: yes VanessaE: though that's not the mainline version VanessaE: but yeah, the itemframes mod also supplies pedestals. sfan5: are homedecor itemframes a fork or written from scratch? VanessaE: they're a fork VanessaE: or in fact, a straight copy VanessaE: (or they used to be) sofar: !mod frame MinetestBot: sofar: Frame - lag-free non-entity item frames![frame] by sofar - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16585 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/frame sofar: sfan5: ^ juangh: I must (yes must) say, that this project (game) is amazing...the power of minetest...ufff juangh: I'm building a few mods here, and i'm enjoying it as a kid... freelikegnu: yeah, I don't consider myself a programmer, but I even I can put something together in MT that is ufn and rewarding freelikegnu: *fun freelikegnu: that's probably the best thing about MT IMHO freelikegnu: I liked LBP on PS3 for the same reason freelikegnu: MT of course is far better and libre too freelikegnu: looking forward to when MT gets more physics support freelikegnu: so many cool things are close as a merged PR texmex: !tell oil_boi The pigs are getting more boar-like with each iteration. Love it! MinetestBot: texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around gh00p: Where are worlds stored in minetest on Android? I'd like to copy a world I've been working on over to a server. sfan5: /sdcard/Minetest/ I believe sfan5: note that /sdcard is actually the internal storage on Android gh00p: Perfect, thank you! I haven't run a minetest server before, is it reasonable to try to take a world and make it server-accessible? It'll be a private server shared only on the local network. sfan5: definitely yrungr: hi. i'm having an issue with minetest on my macbook. the volume slider and mute don't work. i just cloned the stable-5 repo and built it, same issue. anyone else having this? sfan5: does sound work at all? yrungr: yes, the sound works, i just can't mute or adjust it. yrungr: i'm running mineclone2, if that makes any difference. yrungr: actually i should run a vanilla game, see if the problem happens there too. yrungr: yeah, same problem in default minetest. sfan5: interesting sfan5: if you search github for it you might find an existing issue for this, I don't use a mac so I can't comment on this myself yrungr: ok. i'm trying to build it without sound, using the -ENABLE_SOUND=OFF cmake flag. yrungr: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE yrungr: that works ok, but when i try this... yrungr: cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -ENABLE_SOUND=OFF yrungr: CMake Error: The source directory "/Users/user/software/minetest/-ENABLE_SOUND=OFF" does not exist. yrungr: ah, should have been -DENABLE_SOUND yrungr: https://github.com/kyleneideck/BackgroundMusic#download < i installed that so i can manually control minetest's volume on my macbook. jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: 0Cool Survival (lowlag) | mine.0cool.org | Clients: 0/420, 0/2 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / survival | Ping: 158ms jas_: ha jas_: nice MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add mapgen settings to world creation dialog (#9254) 137ec76e5 https://git.io/JflpQ (152020-05-12T01:52:52Z) oil_boi: F7 no longer works to toggle 3rd/first person view? Miniontoby: hey Miniontoby: can anyone help me? Miniontoby: I need some help * Miniontoby: needs help Miniontoby: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905&p=372834&sid=cc638da173beeb02c98618a7cbb01a3c#p372834 AirSThib: Hello AirSThib: I'm a contributor of Wikinews https://fr.wikinews.org/, and I want do an interview with to talk about the project. A principal developper if possible. Do you agree ? * Miniontoby: needs help Miniontoby: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905&p=372834&sid=cc638da173beeb02c98618a7cbb01a3c#p372834 AirSThib: what ? @Miniontoby Miniontoby: I need help with irc mod Miniontoby: is there anyone online???? Miniontoby: I need help with irc mod Miniontoby: I need help with irc mod Miniontoby: check https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905&p=372834&sid=cc638da173beeb02c98618a7cbb01a3c#p372834 Miniontoby: can anyone help me? Miniontoby: is there anyone who can help me with it Miniontoby: ok, no-one can help Miniontoby: what friendly Miniontoby: no-one is friendly here jas_: i just woke up, and i never used irc.. well once but it was years ago * Miniontoby: needs help with the irc mod Miniontoby: can anyone help me? ANAND: Miniontoby: Check out https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=324758#p324758 and https://github.com/minetest-mods/irc/issues/29 * jas_: yawns and rubs his eyes. you know what i love about the internet? we're all men here Miniontoby: the thing is that there is no socket.so in my whole RPI jas_: did you uh, apt install socket? Miniontoby: yes jas_: well i'm out of ideas Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: apt install I didn´t do ANAND: jas_: I *think* socket.so refers to luasocket, not the socket system lib Miniontoby: but Miniontoby: find /usr/ -name socket.so Miniontoby: says /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/ruby/2.3.0/socket.so Miniontoby: only Miniontoby: no more ines Miniontoby: *lines ANAND: I don't think ^ is the right socket ANAND: Btw, did you install luasocket, Miniontoby Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: with apt-get and with luarocks Miniontoby: but how to use the only line that have the socket.so in it ANAND: I don't know much about RPI. Sorry, but I can't help you much. Miniontoby: I am working with snap ANAND: Found this: https://funprojects.blog/2019/04/20/lua-and-raspberry-pi/ ANAND: > sudo apt-get install lua-socket ANAND: > sudo luarocks install luasocket Miniontoby: but if I do in lua console Miniontoby: require socket Miniontoby: it works Miniontoby: but require luasocket not ANAND: That seems to suggest misconfigured paths? * jas_: wonders about lua versions jas_: 5.1 Miniontoby: wait jas_: no Miniontoby: on that site Miniontoby: it says Miniontoby: local socket = require("socket") Miniontoby: not luasocket Miniontoby: and the first line of the /irc/init.lua at the irc folder it says jas_: well i mean, it appears to be implied that it's lua there. maybe i'm overthinking this Miniontoby: local socket = require(¨socket¨) jas_: all i can guess is, make sure all your versions are correct, and PATHs like anand said jas_: i wish you good luck and best wishes... Miniontoby: but socket is still error jas_: i believe in you!! you'll get it eventually, just be patient please, or not ANAND: https://github.com/ShadowNinja/LuaIRC/blob/e49a52ede1a58ddd94854657bc5098b0ac5d0677/init.lua#L1 jas_: i'm going to get my coffee and fix some bugs, then made another stamina mod Miniontoby: yes ANAND: It says require("socket"). Might be the same as the lib on the webpage I linked to above Miniontoby: byt Miniontoby: the error says no file '/home/pi/snap/minetest/820/.minetest/mods/irc/socket/init.lua' Miniontoby: and more no files Miniontoby: if i do in terminal: lua ; require ¨socket¨ Miniontoby: it works sfan5: the lua you run in the terminal and the lua used by minetest are not necessarily the same Miniontoby: and return package.cpath says: ./?.so;/usr/local/lib/lua/5.1/?.so;/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/lua/5.1/?.so;/usr/lib/lua/5.1/?.so;/usr/local/lib/lua/5.1/loadall.so sfan5: which makes the whole thing tricky Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: check https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905&p=372834&sid=cc638da173beeb02c98618a7cbb01a3c#p372834 sfan5: do you have luajit installed? does require "socket" work from there? Miniontoby: yes Miniontoby: luajit Miniontoby: yes that works Miniontoby: from luajit and from lua Miniontoby: it both works Miniontoby: find /usr/ -name socket.so Miniontoby: only shows: /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/ruby/2.3.0/socket.so sfan5: what is package.cpath on luajit? Miniontoby: ./?.so;/usr/local/lib/lua/5.1/?.so;/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/lua/5.1/?.so;/usr/local/lib/lua/5.1/loadall.so Miniontoby: but I use snap sfan5: if minetest is inside snap it's in a sandbox and can't see lua modules installed in your system Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: but the actual server what I want to use it with is without snap Miniontoby: but I dont think i will do it Miniontoby: how should it then works Miniontoby: but did you see the whole error at https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905&p=372834&sid=cc638da173beeb02c98618a7cbb01a3c#p372834 Miniontoby: ok sfan5: no idea sorry * jas_: wonders what's wrong with dance animations Miniontoby: wait Miniontoby: no Miniontoby: return package.preload['socket']; = nil Miniontoby: with terminal lua ; return package.preload['socket']; == nil Miniontoby: one thing Miniontoby: if I cd to the folder of mods/irc/irc and I do: lua init.lua Miniontoby: then it sees the socket sfan5: like I said the lua you run in the console and the lua used by Minetest can be different sfan5: so that they do not see the same libraries Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: sfan5: what was the original minetest get settings cmd in lua Miniontoby: for mt 4 sfan5: minetest.setting_get("name") Miniontoby: if minetest.settings and minetest.settings.get and minetest.settings.get_bool then Miniontoby: I have Miniontoby: but no work Miniontoby: what do i need for that jas_: oh boy. i think maybe minetest.settings:get_bool() sfan5: if you want code that works with both you can use (minetest.settings and minetest.settings:get_bool("foo") or minetest.setting_getbool("foo")) sfan5: you could just use the old api then sfan5: (except you'll get a warning) Miniontoby: ok oil_boi: has the set_bone_pos fix been merged yet? ANAND: It has, IIRC ANAND: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e1fc72c6f3450c82e2dd3e0892838498a6a8a092 oil_boi: Damn, settings the bone position doesn't change the vertexes :L ANAND: Btw, oil_boi, camera modes are now cycled using the `C` key ANAND: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/66c182531cf7ef06c98a25b4e12db770314bdc91 oil_boi: ayy, that actually makes more sense! ANAND: Indeed oil_boi: Does set_bone_pos use radians or literal degrees? jas_: i see some work being done on csm camera, hmm, i just tried it for the first time. was trying to get fov of client but was confused by values jas_: seemed to be client fov plus eight sfan5: ok let me actually test that before someone creates another issue about it sfan5: { y = 0.02326288074255, x = 0.029366469010711, max = 96.404426574707, actual = 76.367530822754} sfan5: no idea what these values mean, my fov is set to 72 jas_: i think i'm on 88 fov jas_: yes 88 jas_: and i got 96 actual jas_: 112 max? oh gosh i'd have to look and test oil_boi: Whoa momma jas_: 90 is good for rail, 110 better for rocket launcher Miniontoby: luk3yx jas_: oh wait wrong game luk3yx: What? oil_boi: ANAND: will the animation override set_bone_pos? before I go in and wreck the blender file up a bit sfan5: jas_, oil_boi: do you see any use for these values in CSM? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/camera.cpp#L543-L544 sfan5: because if not I'd change get_fov() to return the current fov in degrees just like the value everywhere else ANAND: oil_boi: No idea, sorry :) jas_: yes please do, i only got that far and quit jas_: cuz it didn't match my fov :) oil_boi: No I don't sfan5, I have no reason to yet, but I can test it for you Miniontoby: does someone has an kind of rtx raytracing shader for mt? Miniontoby: I want shadows sfan5: well in theory sfan5: !c 0.02326288074255 / math.pi * 180 MinetestBot: 1.3328648858642735 sfan5: hmm no ANAND: I don't see any use for those values either jas_: yei thought i was supposed to get the real value from some math and that's the point i quit i believe hehe ANAND: They seem to be... ratios? ANAND: But 0.02 or 1.3 as a ratio doesn't make any sense either Miniontoby: .help Miniontoby: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md sfan5: I guess .max is the actual fov then? jas_: for me it was eight greater than, but i can test some more sfan5: that's very much possible due to the calculations in camera.cpp sfan5: and intentional I think Miniontoby: sfan5: how to install mt5 on an rpi jas_: ohh, so i can just minus eight, that's math i can do! ANAND: sfan5: `actual` is closer to your FOV sfan5: Miniontoby: is it an rpi 2 or later? Miniontoby: rpi 3b ANAND: 76 rather than 72 though Miniontoby: the apt-get package is over date sfan5: I happen to have a build that runs on the rpi, hold on jas_: looking to get fov and then change it, and then restore original. eventually... maybe. i was thinking of making that effect when you sprint where it zooms out a bit, and then putting it back. but i hate zoom effects LOL * jas_: goes back to stamina100 oil_boi: (0.02326288074255+0.029366469010711) * 76.367530822754 = 4.01917348946?? you have to do *19.0008047732 on these values for them to reach the actual ANAND: In the long-term, CSM support for the existing set/get_fov SSM API would be nice and consistent sfan5: .x and .y appear to be incorrectly converted from degrees to radians (despite being radians) sfan5: try looking at the .max value ANAND: Is it because of the extra calculations in L543? sfan5: L541 Miniontoby: !c 60*60*24 MinetestBot: 86400 ANAND: But that line should modify m_fov_y only if the aspect ratio is less than 16:10 ANAND: sfan5: What's wrong with L541? oil_boi: It's incorrectly assuming aspect ratio is 16/10 ANAND: The lack of .0f in 180? sfan5: it converts degrees to radians, there's nothing "wrong" jas_: oh mine is 5:4? i think? 800x600 oil_boi: MYMAX(1.0, MYMIN(1.4, sqrt(16./10. / m_aspect))); sfan5: {y = 1.3328648805618, x = 1.6825747489929, max = 96.404426574707, actual = 76.367530822754} hmm this isn't any better ANAND: I have my doubts on L543 ANAND: Why is vertical FOV manually increased for aspect ratios lower than 16:10? sfan5: Miniontoby: https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/minetest-5.2.0-rpi%2B.tar.gz sfan5: installation steps: 1) use raspi-config and enable the Desktop GL driver 2) reboot 3) extract it 4) open a terminal and run ./bin/minetest sfan5: works on Raspberry Pi 2 or newer Miniontoby: sfan5: it is for a server Miniontoby: I wgetted it sfan5: no, that's the client sfan5: you could also run it in server mode if you wanted Miniontoby: I need it for server Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: I have the .tar.gz sfan5: then you can step 1 and 2, and run it with --server sfan5: skip* Miniontoby: how to untar and ungz jas_: tar xvfz sfan5: mkdir minetest; tar -caf minetest-5.2.0-* -C minetest Miniontoby: that is not untar jas_: u should use his command it's far better jas_: but untar is just tar in disguise Miniontoby: tar: A completely empty archive is not create Miniontoby: it says sfan5: oh sorry sfan5: -xaf instead of -caf Miniontoby: ok Miniontoby: ./bin/minetest says:./bin/minetest: /lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libm.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by ./bin/minetest) Miniontoby: ./bin/minetest: /lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.28' not found (required by ./bin/minetest) Miniontoby: what to do sfan5: how old is the Linux on your raspberry pi? Miniontoby: rasbian sfan5: this should work with raspbian buster (10) Miniontoby: is there a cmd how to see it sfan5: cat /etc/os-release maybe Miniontoby: ok sfan5: ANAND: turns out the constant was the wrong way around, this I what I have now { y = 76.367530822754, x = 96.404426574707, max = 96.404426574707, actual = 76.367530822754} Miniontoby: it says Miniontoby: PRETTY_NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)" Miniontoby: NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux" Miniontoby: VERSION_ID="9" Miniontoby: VERSION="9 (stretch)" Miniontoby: VERSION_CODENAME=stretch Miniontoby: ID=raspbian Miniontoby: ID_LIKE=debian Miniontoby: HOME_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/" Miniontoby: SUPPORT_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianForums" Miniontoby: BUG_REPORT_URL="http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs" sfan5: ... Miniontoby: is version is = 9 Miniontoby: this should work with raspbian buster (10) Miniontoby: I think then it will not work ANAND: sfan5: Oh, was it the CSM API that flipped the values? sfan5: yes Miniontoby: it will not work sfan5: you can also compile the server from source, but that's a bit more complicated Miniontoby: Ok Miniontoby: I will see Miniontoby: maybe I am going to run the server on an other server (not rpi) Miniontoby: is there a way how to install socket on a linux server without sudo jas_: there got me a mh-style stamina bar hehe, now to find the bugs jas_: there now to make it damage player on starve jas_: !server jastest MinetestBot: jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / jastest | Ping: 133ms Copenhagen_Bram1: LoL is doing some kind of kernel level anti cheat that will render it incompatible with wine: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-pl/news/dev/dev-null-anti-cheat-kernel-driver/ Copenhagen_Bram1: Do they really need to do this to prevent cheating?? sfan5: in short, yes sfan5: when you have esports with price money, people will invest hundreds of dollars and complicated software or even hardware modifications to cheat jas_: !title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXLgrmAataw MinetestBot: jas_: mh-style unified stamina and hunger bar - YouTube Copenhagen_Bram1: hmm jas_: for every lock, there is a key Copenhagen_Bram1: So... there's a point where the server not trusting the user doesn't work and they have to make the client stand guard over the user's system or something? jas_: who knows? it comes down to the ppl at the end, in between i cannot say jas_: technically speaking i believe it's impossible jas_: but a kernel level guard sounds challenging sfan5: Copenhagen_Bram1: yes jas_: first space exploration now esports sfan5: it depends on the game and tradeoffs of course Copenhagen_Bram1: LoL: adds kernel level anti-cheat measures Copenhagen_Bram1: Pioneer: import("Game").player:AddMoney(100000) oil_boi: Oh yeah, I forgot to say, that's why I don't touch the c++ code ANAND :P gh00p: Hi there. Minetest on Android doesn't seem to be current. Any idea when a new build will be published to Play store or f-droid? f-droid has 5.1.0.25, and google play is even older. sfan5: rubenwardy has an up-to-date build somewhere I believe rubenwardy: when 5.3.0 is released sfan5: in any case 5.3.0 will be on Android again rubenwardy: it's a few weeks old: https://minetest.rubenwardy.com/android/ gh00p: Nice, thanks. I'm not in the loop -- is there a timeframe for 5.3.0? gh00p: I became aware of versions this morning when the crafting guide in 5.1 generated an error that my client was outdated. :) dennisjenkins: Wuzzy, are you currently online? Wuzzy: no Wuzzy: This is my ghost talking Wuzzy: 😉 dennisjenkins: Excellent, maybe I can get a spiritual answer then. Wuzzy: of coure i am online dennisjenkins: My port of latest-pipeworks to HR is coming along. I've got most things working. However, the "compat-chests.lua" code (which adds tube support to chests) is acting weird. dennisjenkins: local old_chest_def = table.copy(minetest.registered_items["hades_chests:chest"]) dennisjenkins: minetest.registered_items["hades_chests:chest"] is coming up nil. dennisjenkins: but I damn well know that your chest mod is already loaded. Wuzzy: check depends dennisjenkins: ah, ok. Wuzzy: lol dennisjenkins: So I assume that the engine constructs a DAG and loads mods in order. makes sense. dennisjenkins: I added "hades_chests" to the depends.txt. dennisjenkins: engine still crashes on startup. dennisjenkins: I'll add print(dump(minetest.registered_items)) and see what's there right before the crash dennisjenkins: thats.. alot of text. I only want to print the keys of the table. dennisjenkins: my pipeworks/depends.txt contains "hades_gui" "hades_furnaces" and "hades_chests". dennisjenkins: Yet when the offending code in pipeworks/compat-chests is called, the only hades thing registered already is "hades_core:brick_dark_grey" dennisjenkins: If I jam in a non-existant dependency, I do see an error at engine start time, so I know its reading the file. dennisjenkins: ex: ERROR[Main]: mod "pipeworks" has unsatisfied dependencies: "hades_chests_foobar" dennisjenkins: ok, lots of "hades_" items are registered. Log output was truncated. I'm now running the engine directly from a shell and can see all of the output. dennisjenkins: "hades_chests:chest" is registered. The error shifted down one line and I missed the change in line#. What does NOT exist in hades_chests is "hades_chests:chest_open". dennisjenkins: "hades_chests:" just has "chest" and "chest_$color". dennisjenkins: for 14 other colors. dennisjenkins: and the same plus "_locked" dennisjenkins: 30 total chests Wuzzy: yes, no "open" chests in HR Wuzzy: just replace the "open" chests with their "unopened" counterpart dennisjenkins: ack. I'll drop a TODO into HR-pipeworks, and comment out the offending code. dennisjenkins: My code (at this time) will have no support for pipeworks with colored chests. dennisjenkins: Can be added later dennisjenkins: well, that almost worked. dennisjenkins: right clicking on any chest now crashes the engine. dennisjenkins: So I know how much to butcher this code, do you plan to add support for "open chests" in the future? Wuzzy: not really dennisjenkins: In compat-furnaces, there is code in the "on_blast" handler that calls 'default.get_inventory_drops(pos, "", {})' dennisjenkins: I cannot find an analog in the rest of hades. dennisjenkins: What do you recommend I replace it with? dennisjenkins: For now, it is just commented out. dennisjenkins: the string has a real value, and the 3rd arg is an initially empty table called "drops" dennisjenkins: I abbreivated in my notes, so pasted from those. juangh: hello there...good times for all of you. Zughy: hello juangh: Zughy, hello juangh: I have a situation, and, as this is the heaven of Minetest, where all of you are Gods, i came here to ask for your wisdom... juangh: I really believe that all of you are really good in this... Zughy: yeah no worries, I'm the bossTM here, I can assure you. In fact, I'm nowhere near to be a core dev and please core devs don't ban me (<3) juangh: My situation: In this pass two last weeks i have read a lot (a really lot) about the game, and i have a few instance running in the same server (using differents ports), i implement new mods for each instance and i build my first mod, reading a lot and experimenting about it...BUT juangh: I have problems with that instances...every random time, it fall down, even been alive in the proccess of my server...even showing that the port is been using despite that this is not let access... juangh: i was checking about it into the logs, and don't return any information or error about it... juangh: I thought it was because the door mods...every time one user access and try to put one of the doors, the instance of minetest server fall down... sfan5: it crashes? shows a lua errors? or just exits? juangh: i made a backup and delete that mods and it start to work, but, just for around 1 hour...and again, fall down... juangh: sfan5, just exit... juangh: make all users out, and then, don't let access... sfan5: if you run it in a terminal you should see *something* when it exits sfan5: e.g. "Segmentation Fault" if it's a crash juangh: making me connect to the server, access to htop and kill the process manully... sfan5: if you're killing the process then it's obviously still running juangh: sfan5, yes, it return a few alerts, but no working... sfan5: do you start it using systemd? or using screen? another way? juangh: I start it like this: juangh: #!/bin/bash -x juangh: minetestserver --worldname name --port port --config /root/.minetest/worlds/name/minetest.conf juangh: the game drop out the users, then i access to terminal and kill the proccess, and run again...thats the way i'm doing it... sfan5: right sfan5: which version of minetest are you running? juangh: it return something like that, but, just as a warning juangh: 2020-05-12 18:28:27: WARNING[Server]: Deprecated call to get_attribute, use MetaDataRef methods instead. (at /root/.minetest/worlds/name/worldmods/skinsdb/init.lua:47) juangh: in server? or client? sfan5: server juangh: let me check juangh: 5.1.1+repack-1build1 juangh: this is the version...i was confirming it sfan5: I suggest upgrading to 5.2.0 to see if that fixes your problem juangh: i'm using "focal" in my server juangh: the 20.04 ubuntu version juangh: i will find the way to upgrade it... juangh: but it is rare, it just pass in one instance sfan5: you can search the forum, there are ways to compile the server from source juangh: looking for it now juangh: sfan5 compiling the server juangh: sfan5, i try to run using it: "./minetest --server --worldname dedalo --port 30014 --config /root/.minetest/worlds/dedalo/minetest.conf" but it return this juangh: 2020-05-12 21:39:09: ERROR[Main]: Game specified in default_game [minetest] is invalid. juangh: 2020-05-12 21:39:09: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec sfan5: you need to download minetest_game too juangh: mmmmmmmm, okok, doing it now juangh: done! juangh: and i really like that the warning are missing... juangh: lets try it juangh: mmmmmm, running the avaibles words, it crash...let me check the problems juangh: 2020-05-12 21:45:33: WARNING[Main]: Undeclared global variable "moh" accessed at ...bin/../worlds/dedalo/worldmods/petz/petz/api/api.lua:31 juangh: 2020-05-12 21:45:33: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down juangh: 2020-05-12 21:45:33: ERROR[Main]: ModError: Invalid field "wield_image" (expected string got table). Zughy: well, you put a table instead of a string in the parameter wield image Zughy: also: is there any callback to see when a player changes slot in the hotbar? juangh: No no, i dont put nothing, i dont touch the wield image...i made it just like in the github... juangh: let me see that juangh: server go down again, and now i have the information, the logs... juangh: can i use pastebin to share it? Zughy: I guess Zughy: privatebin would be better juangh: https://privatebin.net/?f151135dd1932f86#3yUmDkiWFsqsHAhUDW9fzFp33sytPj9RXuaRSy5rrsHt juangh: that is the log juangh: the first 3 are because i drop petz...then...just drag once and "shutting down" juangh: "Access denied. Reason: This server has experienced an internal error. You will now be disconnected." juangh: this is the message in the client juangh: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'default' in callback luaentity_Step(): ...-SERVER/minetest/bin/../builtin/game/item_entity.lua:203: assertion failed! juangh: I try it again, and nothing Zughy: juangh, so, I had a look at the code. There is a problem in some entity, because the bug lies there. Try to deactivate Petz, as it's the one throwing errors juangh: i make that, i delete the petz mod, and again, it shut down juangh: again Zughy: is it possible that some bugged entity remained in the world? Because the thing is, it can't process the moving result of some entity. I'm no core dev, so I can't help that much unfortunately juangh: could be that juangh: i will check every mods to try sfan5: juangh: are you sure that you didn't accidentally install 5.3.0-dev? juangh: i installed the one in github sfan5: if you clone from github you get 5.3.0-dev by default sfan5: either way check all the mods you have for updates, then any errors should be fixed sfan5: hm actually sfan5: why do you have "default" in worldmods? juangh: mmmmm, but i will miss the actual building juangh: i will test every one and i will check it juangh: the 5.3 is already stable? sfan5: not yet sfan5: but I think it should work if you remove default from worldmods (it's not supposed to be there) juangh: already removed juangh: and working... freelikegnu: if I saya mod's only requirement is default, is that default from MTG or minimal? sfan5: both would satisfy the requirement, but every user will think you mean minetest_game dennisjenkins: there is a lot of tightly coupled code in pipeworks... dennisjenkins: filter_injector.lua: "input_special-cases". IMHO, the nodes in that list should self-register. dennisjenkins: Trying to get pipeworks to work in a game w/out the 'default' or 'technic' mods. sfan5: the issue with default is that you can't expect Minetest Game to include support for pipeworks sfan5: however you could write code that gracefully handles the absence of mods dennisjenkins: I wish that instead of specifying nodes w/ fully qualified "mod:node_name", you could specify some sort of attribute, "furance_like", or something, then all furances register their tags/attrs/species/whatever you want to call it. dennisjenkins: eg, another level of indirection :) sfan5: cheapie: turns out env_sounds is not the only mod that crashes if you teleport to {x=0, y=32760, z=0} sfan5: not sure if that really is worth fixing though cheapie: sfan5: I would think the proper fix would be for the engine to just not allow players to go out that far, not even via set_pos. sfan5: that sounds a little too limiting sfan5: easier to just blame the mods tha allow the player do go there cheapie: I'm not really sure how keeping players within (or close to within) the bounds of the map is "limiting" - it's not like you can build outside of the map or anything. sfan5: sure dennisjenkins: It just occurred to me, I can build a very slow computer memory in minetest using a _LONG_ pipeworks water pipe, value, pump and detector as an old-school "mercury delay line". dennisjenkins: well, nope.. every 8 pipe segments, one water seems to disappear. dennisjenkins: Is this the appropriate IRC channel to ask questions about the histoty of the pipeworks mod? rubenwardy: sure rubenwardy: VanessaE ^ dennisjenkins: Wuzzy recently fixed up the Hades Revisited game so that it works on minetest v5.2.0. it contains a pipeworks mod that appears to be older (lacks sorting tubes), and is licensed under the WTFPL. dennisjenkins: VanessaE's (iirc) is under the LGPL and is much more recent. dennisjenkins: I am considering attempting to replace the older pipeworks in Hades w/ the newer one, but wanted to know why the license changed. dennisjenkins: Complicating this is tht Wuzzy eliminated the "default" namespace, which I read in Ruben's book is a recommended practice. dennisjenkins: And I'm new to Lua... dennisjenkins: But I figured that I'd try. Lone_Wolf: Need to pull an Edgar Poe and chop up default into smaller mods that default depends upon * Lone_Wolf: runs dennisjenkins: Is there an in-game command to list all node types defined in a mod, or in a mod's namespace? Wuzzy: no dennisjenkins: Hello Wuzzy. dennisjenkins: I am currently trying to hack up Vanessa's latest pipeworks to work in Hades. I am unsure what to do with most of the code that references "default." dennisjenkins: For example, in "pipeworks/trashcan.lua", the formspec references "default.gui_bg" and 3 other items in 'defualt'. I've looked at the formspecs in hades_furnace and hades_chest, and cannot find an analog, or I don't know what I'm looking at. dennisjenkins: "gui_slots" (from default.gui_slots) only appears in pipeworks. Grepping for "gui_slots" (in some other namespace) in all hades mods finds nothing. luk3yx: dennisjenkins: default.gui_bg, default.gui_bg_img, and default.gui_slots can probably be empty strings (https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/legacy.lua). dennisjenkins: ah, I should have checked what they resolve to. ty for the pointer. dennisjenkins: I'm new to minetest and new to lua, but have years of C/C++/asm/Unix experience; so I'm just kinda jumping in. dennisjenkins: I should try just loading the 'default' mod into the Hades game (as a temp measure). I know that wuzzy purposefully removed it (and based on my reading of Ruben's book, this was correct). Wuzzy: dennisjenkins: I have put in the background image on a per-node / per-task basis Wuzzy: furnace has its own background image, crafting inventory has its own, etc. Wuzzy: so there is no default.gui_bg_img for obvious reasons Wuzzy: And yes, I have changed the pipeworks mod to replace all the default references with the new references Wuzzy: but I'm not too happy with mesecons and pipeworks being in hades in the first place. imo this stuff doesnt fit in the game, about what i want to achieve dennisjenkins: What do I do with "default.get_hotbar_bg()" ? Wuzzy: nothing? Wuzzy: context? dennisjenkins: ok, that's fair. However, I would like to get them to work together. Wuzzy: yeah sadly you have to modify pipeworks to make it compatible again Wuzzy: its a shame that pipeworks hard-depends on default, which is very very bad Wuzzy: why does pipeworks need the hotbar_bg in the first place? dennisjenkins: the pipeworks.trashcan calls "default.get_hotbar_bg(args)" in the formspec. Grepping around in other mods, I see that 'minetest_game/bones/init.lua" also calls that. So I'm comparing hades's bones w/ minetest_game's bones, and I don't see what to replace it with. dennisjenkins: I have no idea what it is dennisjenkins: IDK if I need it. dennisjenkins: IIUC, the formspec is just a way to tell the GUI how to draw a form in the UI. dennisjenkins: but IDK what needs to be preserved and what does not matter. dennisjenkins: I default (bad pun) to assuming that it all matters. Wuzzy: oh i remember now. this is just for a special slot color/design for the hotbar slots in inventory Wuzzy: you can safely skip it Wuzzy: there's no special hotbar design in Hades Revisited, so it can be removed dennisjenkins: ok, ty dennisjenkins: so, I how have a pipeworks that loads w/out crashing, but I had to comment out everything except for the trashcan. Wuzzy: lol dennisjenkins: right-clicking on the trashcan in hades does nothing, and in minetest_game, it shows the form. dennisjenkins: one step at a time... Wuzzy: the trashcan is in trash_can mod ... Wuzzy: so you have to remove it from your pipeworks fork Wuzzy: its likely i just nuke pipeworks in the game... dennisjenkins: My son and I spent weeks terraforming a hades world, got down the the mese, and some flying demon thing. Also spent weeks playing in minetest_game w/ pipeworks, technic, mesecons. We want to do the automation stuff in hades. :) dennisjenkins: the pipeworks trashcan can receive a pipe and trashed what is sent it. dennisjenkins: does the hades_trashcan do that/ dennisjenkins: ? Wuzzy: no idea Wuzzy: but probably not Wuzzy: given that its using an ancient pipeworks version dennisjenkins: If you remove pipeworks from hades, then how will the player move/create water sources? Wuzzy: it will be impossible 🙂 Wuzzy: i need to think of a different way, obviously Wuzzy: i think the current way of moving water sources is just clunky Wuzzy: i mean, you can move solid blocks pretty much instantly, while moving a single liquid requires tons of iron dennisjenkins: I'd like to ask you to consider updating, but disabling by default, pipeworks and mesecons. Players that want it can manually enabled them. dennisjenkins: I've been disabling volcanos / lava flows by just dropping tons of ash into them. dennisjenkins: but to convert a lava lake into a water lake requires getting flowing water (up sometimes) to contact the lava source. Wuzzy: it seems pointless to put much work in a major gameplay mechanic only to disable it... Wuzzy: if players want to frequently disable te gameplay mechanic, then i have failed as a game designer lol dennisjenkins: fair. Wuzzy: about automation: fair point dennisjenkins: but since the game is open-ended, and we (my son and I) have gotten bored. We've essentially "beat" the game. dennisjenkins: and want to have fun now. Wuzzy: but its also kind of OP Wuzzy: hehe yes i get what you mean with "beaten" the game Wuzzy: you have explored all that is to explore. there is nothing more to do. Wuzzy: yes this is always a big challenge with sandbox games. making sure players dont burn through the content too quickly Wuzzy: or having just too little content to begin with Wuzzy: so adding more interesting/fun things to do in the game is also something important. dennisjenkins: http://www.ecoligames.com/~djenkins/Games/minetest/hades-0.4.3-terraformed.png dennisjenkins: its slow to start, using stone tools until you get deep enough that iron becomes plentiful enough to make steel tools. Wuzzy: I can absolutely understand that you get bored. you simply ran out of content. thats why. dennisjenkins: after you harvest iron faster than you consume it, the game is much easier / faster. Wuzzy: the progression needs a major rebalance, i agree dennisjenkins: the weird grey rectangle in the lower right is our ~300m open pit mine. dennisjenkins: Anyway, currently I need to figure out why the ported pipeworks trashcan ignores right-click. Wuzzy: Automation is a very interesting point you bring up. yes its obviously useful in gameplay. i am not sure if thats the direction i want to go with HR... Wuzzy: i mean, mesecons and pipeworks have been done to DEATH in Minetest already. Wuzzy: and it takes quite some time to actually figure out mesecons builds to actually automate some things dennisjenkins: I'd be fine w/ just pipeworks. Wuzzy: but i dont want HR to be a game about building machinery at all dennisjenkins: in hades Wuzzy: Well. dennisjenkins: I understand. But I'd like to be able to get it to work anyway, even if you don't add it to your repo. Wuzzy: I think having *some* automation might still be an aspect in the game dennisjenkins: http://www.ecoligames.com/~djenkins/Games/minetest/mineral-processing-facility.png dennisjenkins: that is in my non-hades world. Wuzzy: hehe. i see. Wuzzy: srsly, technic is almost a new game in its own right dennisjenkins: lots of 'detector tubes" lighting up the lightstones. but not needed in hades. Wuzzy: but i dont just want to copy over mods that have been done to death. i want to make something new dennisjenkins: I just really want two things working in hades: sorting tubes and furances that auto-ignite when coal + burnables are in them. dennisjenkins: the current pipeworks + hades_furances are somehow broken. Wuzzy: another possibility is that I just come up with a different concept of pipeworks. one that isnt massively overcomplex dennisjenkins: feeding coal into bottom of furnace, and ore into side, furance does not auto-ignore. dennisjenkins: ignite dennisjenkins: if I right click on furance, remove either fuel or item, then add it back, it fires up. Wuzzy: Hmmm yeah i really need to think about how to automate things. and to what extent Wuzzy: yes yes i totally get the bug report Wuzzy: but i dont care about fixing it because i dont really like pipeworks haha dennisjenkins: Ah, i wasn't sure if you saw my email, but I didn't want to badger you about it. Wuzzy: as pipeworks might be nuked Wuzzy: I guess what i need to do is to experiment with different concepts and stuff Wuzzy: Just to have something unique and refreshing. not beating dead horses over and over again Wuzzy: I get why automation is desirable tho dennisjenkins: Another option is to extract the map-gen from hades, and get that to work in a minetest_game, which has the 'default' mod, and pipeworks "just works". Wuzzy: automation makes boring/grindy tasks easy as pie. automation does not neccessarily need pipeworks for that. there are a billion of other ways to implement an automation system i guess lol dennisjenkins: We (my son and I) wanted to rig up tubes to drop off picks and apples into bottom of our mining pit, and have a chest + filter at bottom that we drop our ore off into. Wuzzy: btw i'm glad you still have fun with the game even in this very experimental stage 🙂 dennisjenkins: At 300m down, its a long ass haul to get up and down to get new supplies and drop off ore. Wuzzy: there are elevators tho dennisjenkins: The ore would go up, get sorted, coal + ore would smelt the ore into ingots, autocraft to picks, drop thse back down. Wuzzy: more like glorified teleporters actually dennisjenkins: also make red bricks from clay. dennisjenkins: yes dennisjenkins: thought about using those. Wuzzy: hmmm meh. ok even if i keep pipework it definitely needs an update. or a redo. current version is bad. dennisjenkins: If the vacuum pipes work, we plan to lay them across the bottom of a forest, then clear-cut it from time to time, and automate the harvesting of apples, leaves (-> plastic -> pipes), and tree trunks (needed to make wood for pick handles). dennisjenkins: I started on trying to port over the current pipeworks, but you would likely be able to knock it out in a few hours. Wuzzy: maybe, maybe not Wuzzy: It took me almost a week just to cleanup the default mess lol Wuzzy: I had to touch a huge amount of code Wuzzy: default had its ugly, filthy tentacles spread absolutely everywhere, which is why it took so long Wuzzy: but it was absolutely worth it. tightly coupled code is not fun dennisjenkins: :) Yup. I've done my fair share of refactoring other's long dead code too. Minetest/lue are just new framework to code it for me. dennisjenkins: ISTm that pipeworks itself should be able to decouple from default, except for the crafting recipes. Wuzzy: and yes, rubenwardy is 100% right for advicing to never ever add a default mod in new games Wuzzy: technically, the crafting recipes arent even a dependency dennisjenkins: then ppl could add it into any game that they wanted with minimal effort. Wuzzy: you can add crafting recipes for everything, really theres 0 checking on whether the mods exist dennisjenkins: I suppose. You can have game mechanics and just omit ability to craft the thing. Wuzzy: but it will get ugly as soon you have crafting guides, which happily show invalid recipes Wuzzy: my usualy response is to just make a mod check and declare it as optional dependency Wuzzy: although i doubt that even that optional depenceny is stricly required Wuzzy: whats your latest project in your world? Wuzzy: have any nice builds so far? Wuzzy: or is it just about aquiring a lot of resources? 🙂 dennisjenkins: Many projects that we swap back and forth on. One was clearing a huge lava field into a water lake, planting lots of fertile sand (100 x 100, so LOTS), then growing more trees. dennisjenkins: but we already have more than enough apples per harvest for 3 players (myself, my son and my daughter). dennisjenkins: digging the pit down to get gold at -300m. IIRC, we're at -280 or so. dennisjenkins: My son build some sort of house. I didn't bother. dennisjenkins: We actually have 3 hades worlds. One is purely for testing things and has enemies disabled. dennisjenkins: Another strangely has very few mountains, is mostly +4/-4 pillars of stone. dennisjenkins: so I cleared a huge flat area and we're going to built pits to trap the spiders in, to get their silk. dennisjenkins: we build long glass bridges over everything, so we can walk around at night, safe from the enmies. dennisjenkins: they don't spawn on tree tops or glass. AidanLCB_: if I never play on single player is there any point to installing minetest_game Wuzzy: no, unless you plan to start a Minetest Game server Wuzzy: I'm surprised you don't already have Minetest Game installed. I thought it comes always pre-installed AidanLCB_: i always compile from source as i use linux dennisjenkins: Wuzzy, if it helps you refine HR, my son is also playing a singleplayer game that has lots of missions in it. He has like a checklist of things to do. (like dig 1000 blocks). This might be your tutorial world, idk. dennisjenkins: he likes the checklist. Wuzzy: ah something like achievements, i see 🙂 dennisjenkins: so maybe "winning" HR is also about obtaining some accomplishments, and the big one is building a rocket to get home, or building a radio transmitter to call home. dennisjenkins: OMG... like the Atari 2600 "ET" game..... dennisjenkins: As it is, it seems that the end of the game is to acquire the Staff of Gaia. Wuzzy: No. The game is open-ended, so there will be no ending to the game Wuzzy: heh right. its like the most expensive item right now dennisjenkins: but once you get to about -150m, emeralds are plentiful enough that you can just craft the diamonds and other gems from left over emerlads. Wuzzy: yes yes. this gem conversion is really odd dennisjenkins: just dig a 16x16 pit, straight down. dennisjenkins: you need ~4.2 stone picks per layer dennisjenkins: ~2 steel picks per layer Wuzzy: note that i did not originally create this game. i just picked it up dennisjenkins: assuming no obsticals. dennisjenkins: yes Wuzzy: and I still carry over a lot of mechanics from the original Wuzzy: but I think a lot of mechanics need closer examinaiton, and a redo dennisjenkins: The game's text intro is "your ship crashed, your crew mates are now mutants, you're stuck here. survive". dennisjenkins: For me, I don't see a point in creating a house w/ homedecor like junk in it. Wuzzy: yeh, thats something more or less bound to change dennisjenkins: at some point, terraforming the place is not practical for 1-3 players. dennisjenkins: without gaining powerups along the way. Wuzzy: oh boy. i havend even started to think about multiplayer right now dennisjenkins: pipeworks might be boring to others, but I only discovered this game recently, and they are fun for us to play with, and I hope to port the latest version to work. dennisjenkins: yeah, my kids and I play in the same world. dennisjenkins: My daughter wants to build cute houses and eat all of our apples (so I have to hide spares in a chest underground). dennisjenkins: but she's 5. dennisjenkins: My son and I are trying to 'conquer' the land. Wuzzy: yeah, i def. need to figure out a more natural way to make multiplayer work. definitely not just like singleplayer with with more players throwin into the same world dennisjenkins: why not? Wuzzy: That's what many of these sandbox voxel games do wrong imo dennisjenkins: we take turns guarding each other while the other mines. Wuzzy: well, for starters, griefing Wuzzy: griefing is the direct result of this very basic multiplayer dennisjenkins: ah. well, when he does that I get after him IRL.. :) dennisjenkins: In our one non-hades world that we all play in, I set up area protection around my daughter's palace and my factory thing. dennisjenkins: but our hades is a private serve, running in an LXC container on my LAN. Wuzzy: well for now, Hades Revisited is focusing on singleplayer gameplay right now. the multiplayer aspect is thus neglected while it still technically works dennisjenkins: sure Wuzzy: I think the problem with this ultra simplistic multiplayer (the same game, but just with more players) is that it creates many problems that the game itself doesnt really solve on its own Wuzzy: like griefing Wuzzy: most servers fix griefing with protection, obviously dennisjenkins: Sure. For my own family, I try to use it to encourge my kids to cooperate on some task. Wuzzy: Yeah as long as all players know each other, this simplistic multiplayer can actually work. but in an internet server, different story, lol dennisjenkins: but that probably is a non-starter for a public server. Wuzzy: exactly dennisjenkins: consider this: Can you randomize spawn points for all new players? dennisjenkins: the world is huge dennisjenkins: you disable flight, fast, teleport by default. Wuzzy: actually, i have considered exactly this dennisjenkins: so players would have to work hard to get near each other. dennisjenkins: My son wants to build a large train track across the map. dennisjenkins: He used up all of the iron that I needed to picks + shovels to build some tracks once. dennisjenkins: but to build a train (mine cart) to connect distant points, you need to flatten land, or create a large bridge., Wuzzy: the thing is, the game these sandbox games function is that there is no real in-game reason that really discourages players to grief other people's bases dennisjenkins: but I don't see a use for minecarts in game. Wuzzy: minecart = fast travel Wuzzy: thats really the only feature, lol Wuzzy: yeah, need to think of better ways for fast travel in HR dennisjenkins: I was hoping that minecarts could work w/ automation to move ore + items around, w/out a player in them. Wuzzy: oooff actually getting multiple players to work together to terraform a planet is a big challenge. question is how to discourage griefing while encouraging coop Wuzzy: protection is the standard solution but it feels very artificial to me. dennisjenkins: create a "light-weight" force-field like object dennisjenkins: player crafts it. Wuzzy: lol that'd be just like protection, but renamed dennisjenkins: maybe it starts w/ ability to protect 20x20x20 area, but can be upgraded. dennisjenkins: Ok, let me go off the deep end here: Wuzzy: the big danger with protection is aggressive land-grabbing Wuzzy: one active player just grabs huge amounts of land, forcing new players to travel far and wide in order to place their first block Wuzzy: We see this problem in effect on JT2. New players constantly ask why they "can't build at all" dennisjenkins: Bronze needs tin + copper. Place these far apart on the map, so that players need to get both, or trade, to build anything better than steel dennisjenkins: then restrict each player to one "area" of a relatively small size. Wuzzy: interesting ... dennisjenkins: large enough for the player to build their own fort/compound, but not large enough to squat on huge tracks of land. Wuzzy: hmmm limiting the amount of land you can protect? dennisjenkins: sure. only way to protect is some special force-field item, that each player can only ever have 1 of. Wuzzy: hmm i think were getting too carried away here, haha dennisjenkins: maybe make it non-craftable and non-transferable. problem with that though is that if player dies in lava pit, it stays with their bones. Wuzzy: i think a hard-cap on protection jut means you cant really do big builds then Wuzzy: which is totally against the terraforming/creative aspect dennisjenkins: ah Wuzzy: everything outside your land is fair game to everyone Wuzzy: i.e. griefing Wuzzy: hah. the landgrab problem can be fixed when combined with the random spawn idea Wuzzy: players spawn in random places in the map and they can try to find each other. dennisjenkins: maybe a game goal (single or multi-player) is that the player needs to travel to certain sites int he world to collect fragments of their space ship that broke up in the atmosphere. dennisjenkins: collect enough and $magic happens. Wuzzy: no no i dont want to add a game goal Wuzzy: maybe some big achievement/challenge but not not something that would be considered "ending" the game dennisjenkins: Ok. But "raw survival" is not very hard. Just need to find enough water to create dirt early game. Once player has enough apple trees to support their consumption (~8 trees / person), they've "won". dennisjenkins: I did not mean to 'end' the game. dennisjenkins: but to get some reward. dennisjenkins: like a powerful item. Wuzzy: i agree survival is easy once you get your apple tree farm running dennisjenkins: or achievement. dennisjenkins: Just consider that the game would be boring if farming was harder and player spent all of their time farming food. Wuzzy: saying you "won" after your first apple tree is absurd tho. there's still more content that you missed out on. even in this early version 😀 dennisjenkins: imho, that's why automation is nice. dennisjenkins: you do it the hard way for a bit, then you can automate it. Wuzzy: adding more and more tools to the player as the player pgoressess is planned to be a major aspect of the game dennisjenkins: has anyone ever reported that they've dug down to -1000m to collect raw diamonds? Wuzzy: idk Wuzzy: but -1000 isnt hard. Wuzzy: it just takes more time Wuzzy: thats also a huge issue. getting deepr does not make mining any harder, or mor dangerous Wuzzy: it just takes more time Wuzzy: you could go all the way to -30000 if you really want. there's nothing stopping you Wuzzy: ok, the lava maybe, lol, but you figure that out fast Wuzzy: Yeah, I plan to add a lot of variety in the underground. not simple "more ores", but actual gameplay aspects. mining deeper must also mean more dangers. so you cant just grind all your way to the bottom. Wuzzy: this could start with more dangerous mobs, but also with more dangerous blocks (besides lava) Wuzzy: or simply increasing the hardness of stone so you need to make a better pickaxe first dennisjenkins: OMG. I installed the "nuke" mod on a different world. My son started dropping "Chernobylim" (sp?) into my area (before I added protection). He had no idea what it was. Wuzzy: lol Wuzzy: /rollback dennisjenkins: So I had to explain what a "nuclear meltdown" was to him, and gave examples of TMI, Chernobyl and the recent one in Japan (I can't pronounse or spell it). dennisjenkins: I dislike fighting monsters in minetest. In HR, that's why I dug an open-pit mine. So I have day-light to dig in. At night, I retreat to my tree-top fort to run the furnaces and harvest apples. Wuzzy: oh yes i can definitely see that farming apples for the 500th can get boring fast. dennisjenkins: I had an idea to use the vacuum pipeworks tubes to semi-auto-harvest apples. Lay down pipes in grid, plant trees in offset grid, then periodically, use axe to cut down all trees. dennisjenkins: apples + leaves fall, get sucked into pipes, flow into sorter, then into chests. dennisjenkins: :) dennisjenkins: then just replant the saplings. Wuzzy: Yeah I think automation should be some kind of aspect in the game. to remove the grind. Wuzzy: but it will have to be earned dennisjenkins: imho, its ok to grind at the beginning. Wuzzy: there will still be manual farming at the beginning. its for the sense of progression dennisjenkins: yes Wuzzy: But if i add automation, i want to have it different than with current mods in Minetest dennisjenkins: what do you have in mind? Wuzzy: I dont want HR to be just another random mod collecion Wuzzy: nothing specific right now dennisjenkins: Just individual nodes that do one task, or a kit where player can construct imaginatively? Wuzzy: not sure Wuzzy: i guess i need to experiment with multiple things, really. haha dennisjenkins: Do other players provide any feedback to you about their experiences w/ HR? Wuzzy: yes Wuzzy: in the forums dennisjenkins: Ah. I gave up on the forums. they are offline alot (seems like all the time). Wuzzy: this has been fixed Wuzzy: finally Wuzzy: it turned out there was apparently a bot army from China that for some reason tried to crawl forum.minetest.net with a ridiculous amount of request, bringing the server to its knees Wuzzy: but this has been fixed by simply banning those bots dennisjenkins: lame. If they really wanted to index the forums, they should have used far fewer connections, w/ exponetial backoff + random delay on errors. dennisjenkins: ppl knew this since th 1970's. Wuzzy: well it was essentially a DDoS, even if no maliciou intent Wuzzy: celeront55 vehemently refuses to jump on CloudFlare or other ... things like that. And I agree. I hate CloudFlare. Wuzzy: good bye. and thank you for your detailed thoughts and comments. it really means a lot to me. 🙂 dennisjenkins: take care VanessaE: dennisjenkins: if I remember right, I changed the license because some countries don't respect the notion of public domain, and I think because contentdb (the "mod store") had no such license VanessaE: as for whether or not you can drop-in replace the old-timey pipes-only version with the current code, I'm not sure. VanessaE: though do note that you can configure current pipeworks to omit all the tubes, iirc jas_: !title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6scWfR5Z9rc MinetestBot: jas_: New damaging leaves, some antifire, and more rocket jumping - YouTube rdococ: is there a way to use a texture pack to apply a world-aligned texture to nodes that don't usually have them? H4mlet: Hello freelikegnu: howdy H4mlet: good, you? freelikegnu: no complaints, cept a little dry skin freelikegnu: I've been busy trying to give a little more depth to the goblins trying to learn some programming along the way freelikegnu: way out of my comfort zone H4mlet: it has been a long time since I've faced one of them, did you added new features? freelikegnu: they all have generated goblin style names and their territories are named as well... when you give them stuff, what you get back is based on your relation to the goblins in that territory freelikegnu: if you give them enough stuff they will reveal their name and territory H4mlet: :) civilized folks freelikegnu: kinda, therses a good chance you get nothing back H4mlet: they're still goblins after all. :D H4mlet: I should check/correct/fix/restyle my mods, but I'm lacking the will. Procrastination. freelikegnu: aye... do you have a list of things you want to do? freelikegnu: I have a list and I like it because I get other things done to my mods just to avoid the list H4mlet: well, two things: improve the code style, and starting a new project an rpg backend H4mlet: afk, back in ~10 freelikegnu: oh cool! H4mlet: yes, basically the idea is that a player's character has some stats, e.g. strenght, dexterity, etc. that can be trained; no classes, just skills: depending on which skills one improves, you build your own class H4mlet: thus: nodes to develop skills (e.g. training dummy for swords), items that are more effective depending on your skill (e.g. swords deal more damage depending on strenght and dexterity); and finally a frontend to keep track of your charsheet, that is a formspec with stats. Lone_Wolf: Hmmmm what did I walk into Lone_Wolf: Sounds like Voxel knights but instead of training nodes I have actual mobs H4mlet: Ah, seems like I almost reinvented the wheel then freelikegnu: H4mlet: I really like that system of progression freelikegnu: it was in one of my favorite games: Dungeon Siege H4mlet: never played it, I was thinking about something like Morrowind/Rogue/Ultima Underworld H4mlet: but then again I guess it's all a variation of pen&paper rpgs :) H4mlet: The fact is, ok I have built my wonderful castle; what now? H4mlet: Or, on servers: freelikegnu: minetest could really use some good RPG elements H4mlet: You build an hose, a castle, whatever; after a while you think: what now? H4mlet: *house H4mlet: yes... thus the idea: character development freelikegnu: I like the idea of mine, build a settlement, find and recruit NPCs, give them jobs grown town etc H4mlet: on servers it would be even better: actual players would form teams, some developing mining skils, some others fighting, others healers or magicians H4mlet: rock-paper-scissors sfan5: sounds like you're designing an mmo... freelikegnu: your buildings give the npcs dwellings, you add the schematic to the npcs and send them out to create more towns H4mlet: less or more sfan5 freelikegnu: its a challenge to make the grind of progression fun H4mlet: freelikegnu, on schematics and npcs AI I have zero experience; but, well, if people like the system, anything can/could be virtually added H4mlet: about progression, I have a couple ideas freelikegnu: I personnaly like grindy games tho H4mlet: that is, different styles of progression, and ...death. H4mlet: so you can have level 1 = 10 experience, level 2 = 20 exp, and so on H4mlet: or H4mlet: 10, 20, 30, 50, 80 - fibonacci's sequence H4mlet: or H4mlet: 10 100 1000 - squared H4mlet: depending on one's taste H4mlet: the death thing would be optional, designed to avoid poweplayers H4mlet: example: H4mlet: player A has been on a server for one year, its character is level 99999 H4mlet: no need to say that anyone joining would be cannon fodder H4mlet: not that fun, no fair play. H4mlet: thus, characters might die in say, 3 months or 6 months; allowing other players not to be eternally "the lowest rank" Jordach: then why not scale player damage outside of PvE H4mlet: that also H4mlet: you are level 10, if you hit a lvl 1 you do zero damage or get some kind of jinx H4mlet: again, customizable H4mlet: so basically the idea is: once you have built your nice Castle Base/Starship/Whatever you can develop your character, team with other players, etc. H4mlet: Last thing: you got a steel sword, or a diamond sword - your dexterity is 0: you deal 0 damage. A weapon's material only determines its lasting, not its damage; e.g. dexterity 5, wooden sword = damage 5, dexterity 3 diamond sword = damage 3. H4mlet: the same goes for tools like pickaxes, axes, etc. H4mlet: ...how sad for the random player which digs 'till -1000 to get a diamond sword + full armor. H4mlet: Anyway, it's all just an idea in my mind, existing code = zero. Jordach: Wuzzy, i've implemented UE4 style animation systems into my MT game Wuzzy: pics or it didn't happen Jordach: https://gfycat.com/favoritecluelessichidna Wuzzy: oh. Wuzzy: heh Wuzzy: is this part of the model animation? Jordach: animation groups + state Wuzzy: interesting. so no engine change needed? nice Jordach: requires a 30hz server_step mind you Jordach: something most VPS can't handle Jordach: i'd go 60hz but even than my Ryzen 3600X would stuggle Jordach: i'm also not to be trusted when fiddling with weapon code Jordach: https://gfycat.com/limpingleafyarchaeocete rubenwardy: That's a bit of a knockback Jordach: 10000 rounds per minute with builtin knockback will do that Jordach: https://what-if.xkcd.com/21/ Ingar: anxious to see the rocket jump :p Jordach: currently all weapons are handled as raycast types Jordach: i'm intending on adding one or two entity based ANAND: Jordach: That's awesome! Jordach: here's a test run in action Jordach: https://gfycat.com/hiddenmeatyjanenschia Jordach: wrong one, https://gfycat.com/plushinsistentlcont ANAND: Sweet. Are you using set_eye_offset for the offsetted 3rd person camera? Jordach: yes freelikegnu: thasts awesome, Jordach ANAND: It looks great! ANAND: Btw are you registering the guns as nodes for mesh support? Jordach: yes Jordach: except i'm not using wield3d because entities are bad Jordach: it's actually part of the player mesh xachman: What is the Bestiary in-game referenced on draconis https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=22595? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Damage texture modifier (#9833) 139ba24f8 https://git.io/JflXr (152020-05-11T19:41:36Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add support for statbar “off state” icons (#9462) 136e1372b https://git.io/JflXo (152020-05-11T19:40:45Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04h4ml3t -> 03minetest/minetest_game: doors: Update Italian translation (#2670) 1316c950f https://git.io/Jfl9s (152020-05-11T21:13:00Z) yaman: Falling nodes can now be used to negate fall damage and climb up walls. Is this behavior expected with the new falling.lua? I recorded a video with [5.3.0-dev-454dbf83a-dirty (Linux)] to illustrate this: https://0x0.st/i_Uy.mp4 sfan5: expected but not desirable sfan5: maybe I do have to fix this properly yaman: In that case, I will submit an issue to document this jas_: nice freelikegnu: I have an item that I need the description text for so that I can append some text and drop it rubenwardy: where are you showing that description text? rubenwardy: you don't want to break translation freelikegnu: it will be an item dropped by a mob that a player will be able to use like default:pick_steel only the description will be like "Nugnug's favorite pick" freelikegnu: er "Nugnug's favorite " rubenwardy: ok, so you should do this rubenwardy: local S = minetest.get_translator("yourmodname") rubenwardy: S("@1's favorite @2", username, def.description) rubenwardy: and it'll magically work rubenwardy: tbh, concating should also just work freelikegnu: so I can use the funky output I'm getting as def.description ? rubenwardy: yeah, the funky output allows client-side translations rubenwardy: so one person will see it as wood, another will see bois freelikegnu: ok I'll try that then. Thanks for the help! freelikegnu: yay! https://i.imgur.com/SsV0biz.png TY so much! freelikegnu: I really have to start incorporating translations into my mod now... oil_boi: texmex: I've been testing the new treecapitator and it makes the game feel more like RLcraft than FTB Horizons, so I'm gonna revert it and release the code on the forums instead texmex: oil_boi: I’m not too familiar with these concepts tbh, but is FTB Horizons kind of what you’re aiming for gameplay-wise? I’m mostly concerned with not having players cause floating treetrunks anyway. oil_boi: Oh yes, texmex, that's not a problem then! oil_boi: The old style fixes that texmex: It’s funny because initially I didn’t imagine an animated entity for the tree at all, only that the tree nodes were to be rotated and laid out horizontally from the initial cutting. What do you think of that, oil_boi? oil_boi: texmex: I'll be honest, that doesn't sound good, it kinda breaks the whole getting wood aesthetic to the game texmex: oil_boi: Yeah, I think you’re right. texmex: Then I’d favor the initial implementation + tool wear according to the amount of tree nodes being broken in the process. oil_boi: texmex: yes, I will work on this later then, that's a great idea oil_boi: I made it a mod prototype for default game regardless https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24692 oil_boi: I bet people will be able to create super cool stuff with this texmex: Excellent outlet for discarded features, oil_boi. :) texmex: Perhaps the Crafter treecap feature could have an optional ”break only one tree node” on Shift+dig? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Calinou -> 03minetest/minetest: Request the dedicated GPU when starting Minetest from the `.desktop` … 1388bb8e5 https://git.io/JfWRq (152020-05-10T11:37:30Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04yamanq -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add oddly_breakable_by_hand to glass stairs and slabs 133f42c6c https://git.io/JfWRm (152020-05-10T11:37:37Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Switch TNT explosions to use add_player_velocity (#2674) 13e5b54c6 https://git.io/JfWEf (152020-05-10T12:10:29Z) jas_: ooh jas_: my voice on #minetest-hub went away for some reason :( Krock: you're logged in so that shouldn't be the problem jas_: rubenwardy gave me voice the other night but i guess it was only temporary jas_: ha, that channel is so elitist, with the many operators and auditorium mode jas_: i want my voice jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Pokémon Rods [pkmn_rods] by general3214 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7712 Krock: dead link uh jas_: i dunno what a rod is but yea jas_: deader than dead Krock: Rod is like Rod Stewart but without the music jas_: hmm * jas_: puts rod stewart on jas_: i was only joking jas_: !title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXu4h9vXy7s MinetestBot: jas_: Rod Stewart - I Was Only Joking (Official Video) - YouTube jas_: i was only joking my dear; looking for a way to hide my fear rubenwardy: I don't have the permissions to autovoicr someone jas_: that's ok! jas_: i'll bug someone about it later :) cheapie: Out of curiosity, when you choose to migrate a world, what is MT actually *doing* during that two or three minutes when nothing seems to be happening, before the progress appears? Counting mapblocks in the DB so the progress indicator has something to go by? sfan5: yes freelikegnu: is there a way to get text printed to the console to show as translated? print(S("some text about @1",thing) shows translation codes.... freelikegnu: print(S("some text about @1",thing)) sfan5: minetest.get_translated_string freelikegnu: I tried to use that but I cant seem to get the player information to it... sfan5: how are you calling it? freelikegnu: I mean the lang_code from the player freelikegnu: print(minetest.get_translated_string(lang_code,S("Assembling the @1",g_template.description))) rubenwardy: that only works with 5.3.0 rubenwardy: and the lang code is found in minetest.get_player_information(name) sfan5: and what does lang_code equal in that case? freelikegnu: I running 5.3.0 dev freelikegnu: I tried lang_code = "en" to test freelikegnu: ok so how do I get minetest.get_player_information(name) freelikegnu: if I dont have a name to put in? freelikegnu: this is just to print out some text to the console as the mod loads sfan5: you cannot translate to "en" because that's the source language sfan5: so what you actually want is not "translate this string for me" but "strip the translation codes from this string" sfan5: unfortunately the engine doesn't have a function for that freelikegnu: yes thats fine too freelikegnu: oof sfan5: (doesn't mean it's not doable) rubenwardy: err rubenwardy: you should be able to translate to en rubenwardy: that makes sense rubenwardy: I consider this a bug - you don't want to have an if-statement on lang_code == "en" freelikegnu: really I would pref that text to be translated to the users lang rubenwardy: also, you don't just want to strip translation code - you want to resolve the format string freelikegnu: but only the person with access to the console will see it sfan5: the format string is resolved at the time S() is called rubenwardy: ie: stripping the translations from S("Hello @1", name) won't resolve it sfan5: rubenwardy: regarding translating to "en", do you suggest mods include an english translation file with loads of "Assembling the @1=Assembling the @1" entries? rubenwardy: oh right, the english version is in the string to begin with sfan5: freelikegnu: https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/blob/master/worldedit_commands/init.lua#L125 rubenwardy: no, I suggest that the engine is clever and just strips the translation when asked to translate to en sfan5: by the way "en" is not a valid value for lang_code rubenwardy: what value does it take when the language is en rubenwardy: nil? sfan5: freelikegnu: I don't think there's a way to determine the system language the server is running on, so you'll have to give them english sfan5: one of "" or nil cheapie: Yay for what seem to be minetest_game bugs :/ cheapie: 2020-05-10 16:58:13: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: environment_Step: Runtime error from mod 'env_sounds' in callback environment_Step(): ...t/.minetest/games/minetest_game/mods/env_sounds/init.lua:22: find_nodes_in_area(): area volume exceeds allowed value of 4096000 rubenwardy: well, I still think that lang_code and get_translated_string should both allow "en" rubenwardy: it's more consistent, and means you can just pass lang_code directly into get_translated_String sfan5: "" is perfectly consistent for lang_code, since the strings are English there is no translation loaded rubenwardy: it's not though? Their lang_code isn't "", it's en sfan5: cheapie: filed a bug report? rubenwardy: well, it doesn't matter too much cheapie: sfan5: Not yet, I'm trying to fix some other stuff first and then figure out what's going on here. rubenwardy: being able to directly plug lang_code into get_translated_string is the key thing freelikegnu: when lang_code = "" I get no text at all "P sfan5: that would indeed be convenient but I'm not sure I like implicit different behavior for lang_code == "" sfan5: instead I'd add a minetest.strip_translation_escape() rubenwardy: It's not different behaviour though. The meaning of get_translated_string() is to get the translation of an encoded string in a specific locale rubenwardy: in fact, if a translation doesn't exist it probably falls back to en right? sfan5: I think so freelikegnu: wouldn't that strip have to still format the "my @1 has @2,animal,parasite" ? sfan5: get_translated_string might not however... rubenwardy: well, maybe not as shown by freelikegnu's tests rubenwardy: freelikegnu: that is done by S freelikegnu: ok sfan5: formatting happens in such a way that stripping escaped will give you the correctly formatted string sfan5: escapes* rubenwardy: it's sent like (T@something)my animal has parasite rubenwardy: strip_translation_escapes would also be good rubenwardy: as well as strip_all_escapes for both color and translations sfan5: hm not sure about that, who knows what escapes will added in the future sfan5: better to have modders make an explicit choice rubenwardy: well, I meant escapes that specifically use the escape ASCII code then (X@thing) rubenwardy: well, actually rubenwardy: nevermind - that's not that useful freelikegnu: sfan: the strip escapes link code works for now "Assembling the Goblin Fungiler" freelikegnu: gads it a wonder that my code even runs I typo so bad :P rubenwardy: I commonly make a typo when spelling typo rubenwardy: I spell it type instead Krock: s/typo/type/ freelikegnu: hehe thats your coder auto correction :D cheapie: What's the format of the "pos" field in the sqlite3 map DB? I tried putting it into minetest.get_position_from_hash() and it teleported me way off the edge of the map. cheapie: (as in, tried to set my position to it) Krock: cheapie: * 4096 for each axis or so rubenwardy: that should work - it's be a chunk position as a hash? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/b298b0339c79db7f5b3873e73ff9ea0130f05a8a/src/database/database.cpp#L59 cheapie: The number I'm looking at is -1577050060, which MT says is -24524,8704,32767 rubenwardy: it's an unsigned int Krock: and it's a mapblock position cheapie: Ah, so it is a different format then. rubenwardy: you need to be careful with handling those hashes in Lua- you shouldn't modify it rubenwardy: Lua only has doubles sfan5: doubles do provide 48-bit precision IIRC freelikegnu: ooo do chunks have a pos? I've been using minp_maxp sfan5: chunks? freelikegnu: Get the Minimum of a Chunk https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=351592#p351592 sfan5: well what do you need that for? freelikegnu: in goblins each trib has thier territory defined by a chunk freelikegnu: each chuck is given a random name on creation and any goblin will get that territory name added to their def on first creation sfan5: well you can use any arbitrary definition for that sfan5: you do not necessarily need to use the same chunks the mapgen also uses freelikegnu: well I figured the mapgen defined chunks were good enough to define goblin territories freelikegnu: how else could I keep the territories from overlapping? cheapie: Krock: OK, I ported that to Lua and it seems to work, thanks. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! franzpow: Hello! frostsnow: .1 frostsnow: ack cheapie: So I've noticed this line in craftitem definitions in a few not-so-great mods now... did it *ever* do anything? cheapie: on_place_on_ground = minetest.craftitem_place_item, Krock: looks like deprecated API cheapie: If it is some old stuff that was removed ages ago then I'm curious what (if anything) it did back then. cheapie: Otherwise it almost looks like the mod author is just kinda making stuff up :P Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/918c507 cheapie: Ah, so it used to just drop the item? Krock: no, it placed a noce Krock: *node sfan5: it was remvoed somewhere between 0.4.dev-20111209-1 and 0.4.dev-20120606 Krock: or what no. an item, you're right cheapie: That still doesn't really make the rest of this mod any better, though... it's registering 10 different things with minetest.register_on_dignode(), none of which need to be, and using some pretty frequent ABMs to do things that should just be done on place... Krock: It Works On My Machine Krock: to ba fair, there weren't as many good practice examples around cheapie: The part with minetest.register_on_dignode() is kinda funny, it's expecting 4 parameters, one of which doesn't match what it's actually called with and one that will always be nil since it's always(?) called with 3, and then immediately throwing out all but one. cheapie: That and it just shoves that function in a random global somewhere and triggers a warning about that. franzpow: I just streamed minetest tonight. Thank you for this awesome game! franzpow: If you want to see the stream here it is the link (I have an Open source gaming channel on Twitch): franzpow: https://twitch.tv/opensource_gaming jas_: that's nice jas_: thanks jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Dice [dice] by ch98 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4926 jas_: yes! jas_: another dead one anyway oil_boi: texmex: I read all your feature/bug reports, it be time yo oil_boi: should dropped leaves be walkable at all? oil_boi: Also texmex I'm going to keep the fire as using node timers since it will limit the calculations the server has to do on the one thread it has oil_boi: I have an unreleased video of a repeat step of 0.1 seconds and it can take out the entire area with ease while causing minimal lag oil_boi: texmex: should treecapitator be kept in? maybe it should be an enchantment? oil_boi: I didn't even know you could get 5 million items in a stack, must be a new change jas_: wow! what a beautiful day jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: Tunnelers' Abyss | 37.46.208.34 | Clients: 4/30, 7/18 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest_game | Ping: 25ms texmex: oil_boi: logically leaves should be less walkable than nonbroken ones, ie not at all. texmex: oil_boi: treecap is a nice way of avoiding floating tree trunks oil_boi: ok texmex what aspects should be added into TtN? texmex: …so in way it’s good to keep treecap as default. Tool wear should be applied according to the number of nodes broken though. texmex: oil_boi: body and biome temp for sure texmex: Per-node temperature: air, water. texmex: Temperature radiation: fire, lava, ice texmex: To iterate on the treecap while not dropping all trunk nodes at once, I think laying the log on its side (ie treefelling) would be cool. So the tree trunk ”falls”, then it’s up to the player to cut it up further. This solves the floating tree problem too. oil_boi: What I'd really like to know is how minetest game places trees without them cutting eachothers nodes off oil_boi: Oh I think I can make treefelling using the old buildable boats mod oil_boi: Oh so you don't think treecap shouldn't be an enchantment? texmex: MTG also has a ”merged trees” problem, if that’s what you mean. texmex: Cool. I imagine it should always fall in the opposite direction from where it’s cut. texmex: Treecap in the treefelling style isn’t the superpower that the current treecap is, it’s just more convenient and won’t leave floating trunks behind. * nephele: wants to eventually solve trees by sending actuall generated tree meshes over the wire based on L-trees texmex: Then your current treecap feature may be an enchantment instead, oil_boi oil_boi: I will give that a test texmex hmmmmm oil_boi: texmex: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19475 I could bring this back for implementing pathfinding later? oil_boi: Cookie creepeeeer oil_boi: texmex: so you say this tree should fall opposite to the direction the player is standing oil_boi: hmmm oil_boi: thank god for dir_to_facedir and facedir_to_dir Krock: calm down, it's just a lookup table oil_boi: Krock: it is the meaning of life oil_boi: _probably_ oil_boi: texmex: step 1 of turning the tree into an entity https://youtu.be/6rfOD8m5cNA texmex: Cool! I didn’t even think in entity terms, but this looks promisig oil_boi MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest: Always use same default tabheader height (#9319) 13b624249 https://git.io/JfCQM (152020-05-09T15:14:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04TheTermos -> 03minetest/minetest: Color gradient for default and 'regular' type sky (#9502) 137cb5379 https://git.io/JfCQ9 (152020-05-09T15:14:56Z) oil_boi: Alright texmex, you ready? https://youtu.be/5rAYG0WrGvA oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: Crafter - Trees Fall Over When Cut Down - YouTube oil_boi: If I can create a model that's just a bone and attach all the entities to that bone the animation will be much smoother Krock: oil_boi: the idea is good until you notice there are fixed server steps oil_boi: Krock: what do you mean Krock: model animations are client-side, so if you want to implement them using attachments, they'll depend on the server step oil_boi: Are you saying it'll desynchronize with the bone in the model animation? oil_boi: I dunno, I just turned server step up to 10 seconds and the entity I'm using as the wield item is still synced with the player animation bone, so I have level 10 confuse as to what you mean tbh Calinou: did you run a local singleplayer server? Calinou: it'll run as fast as it can, it won't obey dedicated_server_step xachman: are there any instructions on how the unified inventory works? I cant seem to get the home buttons working. texmex: oil_boi: The check for individual leaf nodes in creating the entity, the timing of the sound to the animation, the drops. It’s beautiful T_T Krock: xachman: well, the buttons have tooltips Krock: house + red arrow = set, green arrow = teleport xachman: Krock: mine are grayed out Krock: digging into the source... 0% please wait Krock: 100% Krock: You need the "home" privilege Krock: https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory/blob/master/register.lua#L51 Krock: it even tells you that in chat when you attempt to press it xachman: well it wont let me click it so I see nothing in chat Krock: oh I see. the "condition" below forbids that visually Krock: same situation for the other commands xachman: ok cool ill read thru the code I dont know anything about the minetest api so I really have no idea what im looking at. Krock: you're looking that privilege check xachman: but I have managed to fixe some lua issues based on errors i got Krock: the one that's never run because u_i runs the condition() function below first to gray the button out xachman: yea I get it now thanks Krock ill try and look into the api more. Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Krock: don't hesitate to ask xachman: lol xachman: whats the interact privilege? Krock: the one you use to interact xachman: also it says I have the home priv and yet its still grayed out Krock: uuuh.. try to rejoin? xachman: when I run /privs Krock: or update the inventory by clicking another button Krock: might just be outdated xachman: yea its there now Krock: \o/ xachman: Krock: you know how to make animals spawn more often? nephele: Krock knows everything xachman: well great if he would like to document that somewhere that would be great! xachman: the krock wiki or something maybe Krock: the krock wiki? what's that? Krock: xachman: init.lua change spawn chance Krock: though I have no idea which mod you're using Krock: if it's mobs_api, you can modify the spawn chance for all registered mobs in the register_mob() function xachman: its mobs_redo mods_animals xachman: its like one sheep every 4 days of actually gameplay I think xachman: mobs_animals Krock: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo/src/master/api.lua#L3723 Krock: chance / 10 Krock: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo/src/master/api.lua#L3737 Krock: (def.chance or 5000) / 10), Krock: oh. you can control it per-mob using minetest.conf settings Krock: but that's not ideal if all mobs should spawn more frequent xachman: ok is that in some documentation somewhere or just in the code? Krock: only browsing the code so far Krock: > no wiki entries xachman: ok cool Krock: here it is: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo/src/master/api.txt#L637-L648 xachman: ok cool xachman: so then its each animal then? Krock: yes. the changes I mentioned above will affect all mobs xachman: ok ill mess around with the config xachman: how do I removed a node nephele: in lua? xachman: game command xachman: like how do I remove an animal I cant kill nephele: animals are entities, not nodes Krock: /giveme default:sword_diamond Krock: or diamond_sword. don't remmeber nephele: i dont think there is a command by default to kill specific enemies sfan5: on that note /giveme should really support human-readable syntax by default Krock: i.e. ? sfan5: /giveme Diamond Sword Krock: then also needs Levstein' Distance calculations to error-correct users Krock: plus translations sfan5: sure deltanedas: wont client need to translate it first deltanedas: from current locale to id deltanedas: is there a way to use a custom item model without registering a node and making it act like an item sfan5: a quick search through the docs suggests that this is not possible texmex: oil_boi: Does ”game can't handle the amount of entities needed for fancy chunk loading” mean you’re adding as many entities as trees? I thought you’re spawning one entity on demand, so to speak, when cutting has been initiated. Krock: deltanedas: register an item in this case? deltanedas: huh? nephele: deltanedas: what do you want to do precisely? deltanedas: have an item have a cube model instead of a square nephele: so define an item i guess.. lemme cough up a code sample, one moment deltanedas: register_craftitem nephele: https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest-gamemode-orion/raw/branch/master/mods/orioncraft/lua/smelting.lua freelikegnu: bloody hell why does minetest.registered_items["default:torch"].description spit out garbage? freelikegnu: I just want the description string of an item, what am I doing wrong? rubenwardy: what garbage? rubenwardy: are you using a mod that adds colored description? rubenwardy: try minetest.strip_color freelikegnu: garbage: (T@default)TorchE freelikegnu: still have garbage freelikegnu: https://imgur.com/tfNyJ7k rubenwardy: that's a translation code, freelikegnu rubenwardy: what are you using this for? rubenwardy: ie: printing it in chat, or a formspec, etc xachman: how do I get the home button to work with the unified inventory? lmat: I would like a teleporter pad mod that doesn't let you go wherever you want. The player should have to put down both "ends" of the teleporter pad. That is, he should only be able to teleport to a place he's been before. oil_boi: Do nodeboxes have problems with facedir? lmat: Does stuff keep going when everyone leaves the network game? jas_: like what? jas_: do minetestserver --terminal jas_: it's fun lmat: jas_: the manual says "Feature an interactive terminal". What does that eman? lmat: jas_: I'm currently running minetestserver; (plain) lmat: My question, though, is: does stuff keep going if everyone leaves? For instance, if I terminate the last client now, will the papyrus have grown by tomorrow morning? jas_: abms maybe not so much jas_: depends jas_: what is left running depends on the game jas_: if you do --terminal (compile mt with ncurses) you can interact with the world from the terminal jas_: instead of having to login to do, say, /status lmat: jas_: sweet. jas_: sweet indeed lmat: Does this mean I'm on the brink of something big? https://imgur.com/IS7dQUq.png calcul0n: lmat, probably, it looks like a huge cave lmat: calcul0n: Huge doesn't begin to describe it ^_^ calcul0n: well, they are rather common with mapgen v7, don't know how to describe it :) calcul0n: a big hole with tons of ores :p lmat: calcul0n: I did some exploring: https://imgur.com/cg0CjYB.png lmat: In the middle screen, it's a ledge, so I guess it opens up more below? :-) calcul0n: nic lmat: It looks similar if I turn around... lmat: https://imgur.com/CsExvRQ.png is behind me. I guess I have a rough idea of the shape of *half* of the upper half of the cave? lmat: Unfortunately, I'm out of sticks so I can't make any more torches. I'm at -810 so it'll take a bit to get back up to the surface to get more ^_^ calcul0n: hehe always get down with a stack of trees :) calcul0n: but it can be much more larger than that, some look like they never end Miniontoby: hello oil_boi: bloop jas_: !title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=372742#p372742 MinetestBot: jas_: [Server] jastest - Minetest Forums jas_: i posted a csm script to use to sneakjump instead of the server-side one, it seems faster but i dunno texmex: " *Until I add a server-side GUI method." what does that mean? jas_: oh jas_: a checkbox on the setup screen, i guess jas_: so you don't have to type .sprint enable, or... yeah i dunno jas_: haven't gotten that far, but ... i was thinking of a gui toggle to use instead of command line jas_: it does seem faster jas_: ye thanks texmex that made me think: i just did an auto-enable on csm script load-up with an ackowledgement from the server jas_: so no need for any gui stuff heh but yeah, it's pretty sweet. i also added a command /env physical true to test it out jas_: i always wished for physical players but it's not worked in the past, anyways... texmex: I love that CSMs are filling its purpose out in the wild. Hopefully it’ll serve as a testbed for when introducing real SSCSMs jas_: it's kinda blowing my mind a little, i wanna test it on cell data wifi lmat: calcul0n: "a big hole with tons of ores" To be clear, I don't think it has any more ores than anywhere else. When you can see them all so easily in the big room, it looks like a lot as compared to when you're burrowing down, but I think the 'per-block' ratios should be the same. jas_: i think there was always a very small delay to start sprinting and sneakjumping, but when the csm polling is enabled it seems gone jas_: i'm also using CSM for chat, to speak it out loud in espeak jas_: lol jas_: and stuff lmat: Starting to get a glimpse of the shape of this cave... https://imgur.com/ujjUkxn.png Krock: that's called cavern lmat: Krock: I like beer as much as the next guy, but I don't see any here. Krock: !mod beer MinetestBot: Krock: Beerchat: Chat rooms, colors and shortcuts [beerchat] by Beerholder - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18090 - https://github.com/evrooije/beerchat lmat: Krock: Oh "cavern" not "tavern" :-P Krock: I wouldn't be opposed to a tavern, though. Krock: seems to be a nice idea for a house Krock: or medieval town in general MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Some more code modernization 138e83ce6 https://git.io/JfchN (152020-05-08T20:16:13Z) oil_boi: texmex: I'm not sure what you mean by "On another note: my FOV fading almost disappeared with the last update to that feature. :S" oil_boi: Is it transitioning too fast? oil_boi: Maybe I should add .15 to the transition period jas_: oooh i cannot wait to try that jas_: here's another video showing antifire, today i made it so it triggers near water https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkHAVBZgknk jas_: !mod antifire MinetestBot: jas_: Antifire [antifire] by everamzah - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15457 - https://github.com/everamzah/antifire texmex: oil_boi: Yes, the transition is so fast it’s almost not visible (whereas before it was butter smooth) oil_boi: texmex: I fixed it :D oil_boi: texmex: I just riced the crap out of snow and now sub 23ms averages per call every 2 seconds oil_boi: Which is only %1.011 of the snow server step so I think I'll adjust it up to 3 seconds again so that there's even less lag per average of server time oil_boi: Another update texmex, now the snow loop has a 3 second delay and I added advanced debug info to it which you can uncomment out to see what the delay is in your specific game, I got it down to 18-20ms average with it running at a 0.1 second interval, but I put it back up to 3 to actually have it usable with 100 players Zughy: sfan5, "perhaps that should be added as a client-side feature for nametags, scaling them with size + obscuring them" (from some days ago) Zughy: was it a general thought or someone is actually working on it? sfan5: a thought Zughy: heh, because I found this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4122 sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sfan5: I'm sure it would be added if someone writes the code Zughy: wait, what was the way to hide names after a certain distance? I remember ruben mentioned it, but I can't find anything on the API.txt sfan5: player_transfer_distance Zughy: ty lmat: I installed craftingguide mod and now my server restarts after a while. lmat: The logs say: https://paste.rs/B1l lmat: It appears to be happening when the last player leaves? lmat: maybe it's a feature? jas_: not sure, doubt it, looks like craftguide may be trying to save player meta whenever they leave the server, including when the server shuts down. perhaps it's saved your meta when you left as last player, and then tried to save all player's meta on shutdown but the last player was already gone? i love minetest lmat: jas_: Is your last comment sarcastic? jas_: no jas_: i get that a lot tho lmat: jas_: I like it, too \o/ jas_: i do love minetest, and i have experienced some funny bugs when it comes to on_playerleave and on_shutdown. i hope it's better now, it's behavior that's changed a few times i think jas_: also i took some screenshots yesterday let me see if i can find me jas_: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=372649#p372649 jas_: i found it interesting that the death screen was different, so i snapped a pic ANAND: The forum's quoting feature seems to have improved. An hyper-link arrow is automatically added to the quote, linking to the original post. ANAND: Fancy :) lmat: ANAND: Do you play chess? lmat: whoa...if I'm running and I right-click my bed at night, I keep running while the screen says "1 of 2 players are in bed" ANAND: lmat: That Anand ain't me. ;) ANAND: I am fairly good at Chess, though ANAND: Or so I'd like to say - I'm just average :) jas_: how's chess mod i used it once or twice but it seems to need truetype? jas_: i love it lmat: Just got disconnected by the craftguide mod. It crashed and disconnected me. lmat: The reason it looks like this was only happening when players disconnected is beacuse the crash disconnected the players :-/ lmat: I really like the crafting guide... Zughy: is there an option to protect the whole world without areas? sfan5: do not grant interact by default Zughy: they can still hit things like signs? Zughy: like, does it trigger on_punch? sfan5: no Zughy: any chance it can be done in a way I can still trigger on_punch? Zughy: like the mod areas does Krock: that mod overwrites minetest.is_protected nephele: you can overide the hand tool to not be usefull Krock: so you could try the following code: function minetest.is_protected() return true end so that nobody can do anything but punching stuff sfan5: if you're doing this from a mod you can just do it like areas does and still have on_punchplayer sfan5: on_punchnode* Krock: actually both ^ Zughy: why did you assume I wanted to punch a player? Isn't MT PEGI3+? WHY ARE YOU SUGGESTING VIOLENCE? OOOH, NOW I'M GONNA RUIN YOU! Zughy: jk ty both <3 nephele: Go ahead then, mr joestar! Zughy: "How Minetest is an alt-right group and how they use violence to solve anything, OMFG YOU'RE NOT GONNA BELIEVE IT CLICK NOW! nephele: I click but nothing happens, i want my money back Zughy: "How these guys tried to steal my money after a couple sentence in their IRC channel" Zughy: *sentences. Ok, I'm donne, sorry Zughy: *done OMG my keyboard nephele: You are done indeed! *cancels on social media* rdococ: cancel culture *and* the people that mock it need to be cancelled. it's not great but it's important to scrutinize public figures for what they believe rdococ: plus, the people that mock it tend to be racist neckbeards with alarming regularity Zughy: wait what Zughy: btw the trash in here is escalating quickly => https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24580&start=25 NetherEran: for real though we need to start putting dance animations in our models * Krock: slaps NetherEran using a large fish trout * NetherEran: starts making the mtg boat model dance MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix Server triggering wrong errors if environment init fails 13650168c https://git.io/Jfcea (152020-05-07T20:02:22Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Server class code cleanups (#9769) 13454dbf8 https://git.io/JfcvH (152020-05-07T20:38:41Z) appguru: sfan5: is checking for eof the way to go for backwards compat? sfan5: we usually put the code in a try { } catch (SerializationError&) { } appguru: thanks appguru: now fixed who00: Hi, I'm looking for an mts repository ? (or a way to convert minecraft file format on linux) gnawzie: hello everyone oil_boi: is meta:set_string("value", "hi") faster than local table = {} table["value"] = "hi? jas_: interesting question i wish i know. at a guess, i'd imagine getting meta is heavier than a table lookup, but i have nothing to base that on. i've always wanted to learn how to time stuff, i guess that's the best way to find out? rubenwardy: jas_: meta will be slower, but safer to persist jas_: nice jas_: !title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&start=9400 MinetestBot: jas_: Post your screenshots! - Page 377 - Minetest Forums Miniontoby: hello Markow: Hi MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Enable collide_with_objects for falling entities 13e8e5d28 https://git.io/JfZ6k (152020-05-06T12:03:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rewrite falling entity to make use of collision info 13723926a https://git.io/JfZ6I (152020-05-06T12:03:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Expose collided objects in moveresult 13b6b80f5 https://git.io/JfZ6L (152020-05-06T12:03:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: porting_android.cpp refactoring (#9687) 134f9a5f6 https://git.io/JfZ6A (152020-05-06T12:25:57Z) GNU[BDC]: hi, anyone know what has changed from 0.4.17 => 5.2.0. When you send private message reciever get message, but sender get only "message send". Out`Of`Control: In other words sender does not see what he wrote. Out`Of`Control: Now the question is, its a mod bug or a minetest bug. ANAND: Out`Of`Control: Not much seems to have changed in the /msg chat-command def. I don't remember seeing the messages I send in 0.4.x either. ANAND: Hmmm ANAND: I think it might be the chat-command feedback? i.e. "Issued command /msg receiver123 Hi" Out`Of`Control: it was working fine in 0.4.17 Out`Of`Control: only if you join a channel, it was broken ANAND: Then I think this regression is in a mod on your server. ANAND: You could try grepping for msg in your mods directory, if you have difficulty finding the mod. Out`Of`Control: conflict with other mod? ANAND: I don't really know. Maybe you can look for the mods that override the /msg chat-command? ANAND: One possible scenario is that a mod that you recently installed/updated now overrides the chat-command as well Out`Of`Control: ANAND: i see thanks! Out`Of`Control: i disable one by one to see what cause it argentite: Hello, new minetest player here. What is the relation among the different versions of minetest? I found another website minetest.org which seems to be distributing "Final Minetest". There also seems to be an old version. sfan5: The latest version of Minetest is 5.2.0, the previous major version was called 0.4; both are network-incompatible which means you can't use a 0.4 client to play on a 5.x server or the other way around sfan5: the so called "final minetest" you found is a fork of the 0.4 version, so quite old by now (regardless of what that website claims) argentite: Ok thanks, I'll stick to 5.2 sfan5: that fork was created by a former community member after severe disagreements, that person has a tendency to harrass and stalk people so I'd suggest keeping a healthy distance argentite: umm... ok :D lmat: I installed the craftingguide mod. When I point at stone and type /craft I get the crafting guide showing how to make stone and what can be mode from it. There are also a bunch of items on the left. lmat: When I click most of the items on the left, nothing happens. jas_: got the latest versions of the craftguide mod and minetest? jas_: craftguide requires newer version if i'm not mistaken MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: FormSpec: Add universal style selector `*` (#9718) 13664800b https://git.io/JfZNH (152020-05-06T17:36:02Z) gnawzie: if I have something growing upward, it seems like abm will scan from the bottom up, so if I have put something on top the abm will scan over the next Y and grow it up yet again multiple times in an interval, should I use a node timer to prevent this? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04osjc -> 03minetest/minetest: Get rid of non-ascii characters in the debug display code (#8821) 134f9ccd8 https://git.io/JfneE (152020-05-06T19:35:18Z) appgurueu: #8821 is a regression IMO ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8821 -- Replace non-ASCII characters in gameui debug display code by osjc appgurueu: Replacing very readable with unreadable code is a very bad idea and undermines the purpose of code style. appgurueu: ( change was replacing "°" with "\xC2\xB0" without adding a comment) rubenwardy: why is that needed? Our source code should be in UTF-8, all compilers support that rubenwardy: it's in the standard appgurueu: yup appgurueu: I'd always prefer "°" over "\xC2\xB0" appgurueu: And if a "code style" requires me to write the latter, it's a bad or outdated code style appgurueu: #9828 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9828 -- Revert "Replace non-ASCII characters in gameui debug display code" by appgurueu Krock: seriously appgurueu: jup appgurueu: GitHub provides a very convenient "Revert" button Krock: you had like one entire year to comment that previous PR so leave it Krock: well 9 months but still appgurueu: I didn't even notice it appgurueu: But I keep an eye on merged PRs MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fix compatibility of MapBlock decoding 132979dc5 https://git.io/JfnJU (152020-05-06T20:32:27Z) frabbit: hi. i just compiled latest minetest engine and game, but my game crahses when i throw something and it keeps crahing a few seconds after rejoin the world, too. heres the output of my terminal: https://paste2.org/p5naHFjy Lone_Wolf: Are you sure MTG is up-to-date? appguru: frabbit: I assume this might have been caused by sfan5 rewriting the item entity using the new moveresult? sfan5: Lone_Wolf: considering their log says "minetest_game-5.2.0" I am very sure it is not up-to-date Lone_Wolf: Getting the latest MTG will fix ^ Lone_Wolf: lel, missed that appguru: No, I think I got a clue appguru: sfan5: default is overriding the item entity AFAIK, and most likely it doesn't pass the moveresult anymore sfan5: what do you mean "anymore"? sfan5: this bug was fixed even before the item entity PR was merged into the engine appguru: Sorry, not anymore, it never did appguru: Reminds me I'll have to update by item limit mod appguru: my* appguru: But indeed appguru: it is fixed in upstream MTG frabbit: ok tank you for the replys. why isnt the latest version listed here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/releases Lone_Wolf: download minetest_game the same way you downloaded minetest, from master Lone_Wolf: Note that's the latest dev frabbit: yeah sure, but that doesnt answer my question ;) appguru: Because releases are only stable ones appguru: Nightly releases are not meant to be installed by downloading frabbit: wait! so the latest stable release isnt stable at all? Lone_Wolf: No sfan5: if you compile the engine from master instead of 5.2.0 you also need minetest_game from master not 5.2.0 Lone_Wolf: latest stable Minetest Engine: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases Lone_Wolf: Latest stable Minetest Game https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/releases frabbit: sfan5: ok i see. so latest menas always nightly frabbit: thx Lone_Wolf: There is also a stable-5 branch in both repos frabbit: Lone_Wolf: thx i posted that links before ;P frabbit: fine now throwing works =) appguru: frabbit: side note, it's called dropping frabbit: thx again and cya * appguru: waves frabbit: appguru: hm depends on your definition: if i drop my key, the it falls to my feet, not 1 and a half meter infront of me ;D jas_: rubenwardy: hi can i get voice on #minetest-hub ? lmat: When I fly and look down, my guy goes forward (X+- or Z+- rather than Y+). Sometimes this doesn't happen. What is the setting? rubenwardy: pitch move rubenwardy: (P) lmat: rubenwardy: Yeah, that's the good stuff, thanks! I could see that being valuable, but I'm ... not in the mood. rubenwardy: it's triggered quite a lot accidentally, lmat rubenwardy: :( oil_boi: Is breath handled in the engine? rubenwardy: Yes, unfortunately rubenwardy: It's server side though oil_boi: That's okay, I will make it cooperate norkle: okay party boi MinetestBot: 02[git] 04oilboi -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix small typo (#9813) 133ed5619 https://git.io/JfGoG (152020-05-05T06:35:55Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix broken client if openal cannot be opened (#9804) 13f1a05d0 https://git.io/JfGoW (152020-05-05T06:38:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Sky API: Rename *_tint to fog_*_tint for consistency 13cad5b98 https://git.io/JfGol (152020-05-05T06:37:04Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Rename moveresult speed to velocity 131b6f40c https://git.io/JfGo4 (152020-05-05T06:37:04Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04adrido -> 03minetest/minetest: Add MSVC build (#9740) 13f34c62c https://git.io/JfGKt (152020-05-05T06:42:55Z) YuGiOhJCJ: hello, I upgraded from MT 5.1.1 to MT 5.2.0 and I see a difference with the mouse cursor, sometimes it changes (the arrow is not the same than the default one), what it means please? FrostRanger: I just set up an irc channel for my server but I can't see messages from ingame on irc jas_: here on freenode? FrostRanger: yes jas_: oh i was just curious, i wanted to do that too but didn't know where to put the channel jas_: there was a server for minetest irc mod channels, i think, or something jas_: that's nice FrostRanger: if you do it here I think you need to have ##chanelname 'cause it's technically offtopic jas_: interesting YuGiOhJCJ: FrostRanger, you have to install and configure the IRC Mod on your MT server https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3905 so you will see messages from in-game on IRC FrostRanger: YuGiOhJCJ: I did follow the steps to configure the mod, the server shows up in the channel list and I can see messages from irc in game, just not the other way around FrostRanger: the only messages from in game that get sent are join/leave messages YuGiOhJCJ: hmm I see it's like all the players have typed the '/part' command, if you can join your server in-game for testing, you can try the '/join' command then type a message, if you don't see it, then I don't know why FrostRanger: YuGiOhJCJ: I already tried rejoining several times YuGiOhJCJ: I have an other question: Is there a way to print the output of '/help all' in text mode only please? (like in the previous versions of MT) When I type '/help all' now I have a GUI but I prefer a CLI. _Zaizen_: Hi everyone I would like to know if I can pass an user to another class wich register an entity thanks to staticdata when i add the entity. I didn't found useful documentation and I don't wanto to waste too much time on it trying to understand how staticdata works. mntmn: hi, is it possible to force the minetest base game to day (instead of night) for debugging purposes? sfan5: sure sfan5: set the time to day and put time_speed = 0 in minetest.conf mntmn: sfan5: cool, thanks! Zughy: totally unrelated, but since there's plenty of developers here: Springer released 43 books about programming for free due to COVID-19. Can I drop the link? Zughy: *389, pardon sfan5: sure Zughy: https://link.springer.com/search?facet-content-type=%22Book%22&package=mat-covid19_textbooks&facet-discipline=%22Computer+Science%22 <= these are the 43 about programming Zughy: the other ones are more generic, like physics, mathematics etc yrungr: where can i change the mouse sensitivity on a mac? i've edited ~//Library/Application Support/minetest/minetest.conf and added mouse_sensitivity 0.001, but nothing has changed. sfan5: try changing it in the in-game menu rather yrungr: ah, i see it now. yrungr: wow. joystick support. :) yrungr: i've enabled joystick support and set the type to xbox (i've got an xbox one controller), but nothing seems to be happening. yrungr: anything else i need to do? sfan5: joystick support is somewhat alpha, I can't even tell you if it works on macos yrungr: ok. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Server: Improve some log messages (#9820) 13d1c6cc7 https://git.io/JfGxG (152020-05-05T15:05:11Z) sfan5: rubenwardy: do you want to test #9768 before I merge it later today or whenever? ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9768 -- Rewrite falling entity + another feature by sfan5 sfan5: wait wrong channel sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ rubenwardy: sfan5: feel free to merge if I don't get around to it MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix thread safety of PcgRandom use in BiomeGen 13f3e87c5 https://git.io/JfZfK (152020-05-05T17:26:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update num_emerge_threads description 13ab06880 https://git.io/JfZf6 (152020-05-05T17:26:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix remaining issues with mapgen scriptapi 13c28fbd0 https://git.io/JfZfi (152020-05-05T17:26:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Give the Mapgen on each EmergeThread its own Biome/Ore/Deco/SchemMana… 133c65d1a https://git.io/JfZfP (152020-05-05T17:26:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow ObjDefManager instances to be cloned 132062c80 https://git.io/JfZfX (152020-05-05T17:26:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix crash when exiting server during running mapgen 13cb159f8 https://git.io/JfZTR (152020-05-05T18:19:47Z) Calinou: https://www.pcgamer.com/free-minecraft-games/ Calinou: rip, it mentions Terasology but not Minetest rubenwardy: Terasology has terrible performance Parnikkapore[m]: Games these days are all about g r a p h i c s nephele: not all of them .. :D Krock: p l a y d u n g e o n a i 2 Parnikkapore[m]: My favourite game of all time is CrossCode, whose graphics would work on a potato Lone_Wolf: You'd love my games then, I could make you go blind with my graphics Parnikkapore[m]: And the install size is way below 5GB Parnikkapore[m]: so yeah, some games are less focused on making GPUs sweat Parnikkapore[m]: but "mainstream" games are aaalll in that direction Parnikkapore[m]: (easier to advertise I guess) rom1504: how do you discover games ? rom1504: I know nothing about recent games calcul0n: rom1504, there's a forum section for them : https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=48&sid=5fc5e8bb2d0d57dd4da77143b054b16c rom1504: oh I was not talking specifically about minetest, more in general rom1504: but thanks ! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Change default keys for cam/minimap to C/V (#9779) 1366c1825 https://git.io/Jfsye (152020-05-04T06:45:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: some java-part improvements (#9760) 13373bad1 https://git.io/JfsyU (152020-05-04T06:47:00Z) thomas_: Hello experts. How can I give a new privilege to ALL registered users of an online server? ANAND: You can make use of an on_joinplayer callback to check if a given player has a priv, and grant it to them if they don't. thomas_: Is there a mod containing the necessary code? ANAND: For documentation on these API methods, take a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt ANAND: I'm not sure about that ANAND: But it's pretty simple to make one from scratch thomas_: Ok, lets see if I can do that. ANAND: It'd probably be less than 10 lines ANAND: It's pretty easy too :) thomas_: would be a useful mod ... blaise: I for some reason feel like such mod already exist... thomas_: Sorry, was off for a while. Did I miss answers? Is there a log of this channel anywhere? I'm not using irc very often ... NetherEran: here http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2020-05-04 thomas_: Thank You! jas_: the death of a forum url address split in half by an elipses ... what a long journey it's been jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Free stuff generator [fsg] by UjEdwin - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13801 - https://github.com/AiTechEye/fsg Koward: Hello. Anyone knows what perlin 2d map is supposed to be 2d perlin noise Koward: Sorry, I meant *compared to 2d Perlin Noise. rdococ: is there a consensus about whether the "front" face of a node is -Z or +Z (assuming a facedir of 0), and whether the "forward" direction is out of or into that face? rdococ: the documentation of minetest.facedir_to_dir suggests -Z, but I wasn't sure if that was what people decided upon or if it was just one person who saw it that way rdococ: -Z would mean that the front face faces the player, +Z would mean it faces away from the player sfan5: isn't who decided on it irrelevant when the documentation offers an "official" opinion? rubenwardy: front is relative rubenwardy: the documentation assigns each face a name for ease of documentation, I guess rdococ: ah, okay rubenwardy: and because connect_zplus rubenwardy: is not nice to read rubenwardy: plus: rotations rdococ: so would that mean that relative to the node, -X is the right face? nephele: that depends in which direction you think your node is facing i guess? rdococ: well, when you're facing in the +Z direction and you place a node, that node's front face is in the -Z direction, but that counts as "no rotation" even though it's facing the opposite direction to you rdococ: too late to change that now, but it's an interesting thing I noted mazes_80: about capture the flag (latest) a player found a way to have infinite smg mazes_80: eca is now online and wants to describe this rubenwardy: we know, that only applies on CTFv2 rubenwardy: thanks though! rubenwardy: it's in our issue list to fix before we release CTFv2 rubenwardy: the current server is a test server mazes_80: ah, ok mazes_80: I also noticed that when you switch class, you can have multiple time an item mazes_80: play as knight, upgrade sword to mese, change class, go back to knight, and you can have the iron sword again, ... mazes_80: a per life item counter could probably solve the issue mazes_80: thanks for the reply, I'll say to eca this bug is known MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: doors: Remove unnecessary nodebox and empty texture (#2662) 13ef45a8e https://git.io/JfGY2 (152020-05-04T17:20:01Z) Zughy: hey there. Is the hud_set_flags({minimap = false }) broken? If I spam F9 enough times, I can apparently override it and it shows up Krock: override has higher priority than flags rubenwardy: huh, works for me? Zughy: no, I mean, spamming F9 overrides the behaviour somehow Krock: or does it work hand-in-hand? uh.. dunno Zughy: I'm on 5.2, idk if it changes something Krock: what #9079 is still not merged?! rubenwardy: the hud flags should disable the minimap ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9079 -- Minimap in HUD, minimap showing texure, control minimap modes from Lua by EvidenceBKidscode Krock: maybe that PR fixes the issue.. dunno rubenwardy: it works in MTG? rubenwardy: unless MTG also has the bug where pressing F9 enough times evades it Krock: rubenwardy: that's more of an engine issue rubenwardy: as in, there's nothing else here causing this Krock: race condition or whatever Zughy: at the beginning it says minimap access is blocked by the very game or by a mod Zughy: but then.. F9F9F9F9F9 and whoopsie Krock: i.e. cycling through all modes once Krock: should be an even number. 6 or 8 Krock: if the minimap appears with the 7th or 9th key press, we figured out the source pretty much already Zughy: let me try Zughy: sorry for these issues report in the IRC :( Zughy: ok I'm an idiot Zughy: the server was in creative. Don't kill me :)))))))) Zughy: so, always about minimaps: other than hud_set_flags({minimap=true}), do I need to something else to enable it again? It works for a second and then it says again the game is blocking it Zughy: *need to do sfan5: minetest_game has a mod that controls the minimap enable-state on its own Zughy: huuuh, it cycles every 5.3 seconds, got it. ty AceNovo_: What kind of network issues do I need to test for if I'm not able to connect to a Minetest server on a dedicated server? AceNovo_: I set up a server that says it's running, but I'm not able to connect. I kill it, start netcat listening on the UDP port and I'm able to reach netcat heavygale: maybe it's not a network issue heavygale: are you sure the minetest server is runninganlistening on the port? AceNovo_: It *says* it is in the start up report. If it's failing, there's no difference in behavior from my local machine or my headless server on my LAN AceNovo_: It shows in netstat as a listener sfan5: is there ipv6 anywhere near your setup AceNovo_: Yeah... that would be the major difference between the local and the remote AceNovo_: The remote *does* have IPv6 addresses AceNovo_: Looks like that's sufficient info for a productive search. Thanks sfan5: minetest does not listen on ipv6 by default sfan5: so what you'll want to do is either remove the ipv6 from your domain or set ipv6_server = true in your minetest.conf AceNovo_: I have my own IPv4 addresses, but is it easier to just configure the server to use an IPv6 address since external factors may affect IPv4? heavygale: use both :) AceNovo_: I'm here: https://doxy.minetest.net/settings.html AceNovo_: Anything else I need to get that working? sfan5: just that config setting I mentioned suffices AceNovo_: So if I turn on IPv6 in Minetest, it becomes IPv6 aware, gloms on all addresses, and both IP versions work? sfan5: yep AceNovo_: Give it a try tonight. Tx Andrey01: Hello, I seem can`t hunt out a file where the air node registration occurs, maybe does it happen engine-side at all? nephele: game/register.lua:345 ANAND: It happens both in builtin and in the engine ANAND: IIRC sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/game/register.lua#L345 sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5cf6318117edcae6bf30d829d9e9dd9dbf1d4bf7/src/nodedef.cpp#L966 Andrey01: Thanks rdococ: hmm, how do I get access to the output of minetest.log()? I looked in debug.txt but I don't think it shows up there Krock: it does, if the minetest.conf log level is low enough rdococ: is the default level high enough? I want to see if there's an "error" rdococ: (those quotes weren't meant to be sarcastic lol) sfan5: errors and warnings show by default rdococ: ah sagax: how to wrap video to blocks? Krock: sagax: currently not possible. For animated textures, take this as an example: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L2229 kagi: hi, just wanting to vent frustration about all those moreblocks slices cluttering up unified inventory even though theres a separate section for them~ wondering how hard it would be to fix~ VanessaE: there is a config option to keep the cut shape out of the creative inv. VanessaE: but I don't recall what it is offhandf VanessaE: -f Krock: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/blob/master/settingtypes.txt#L3 Krock: ^ kagi Krock: minetest.conf setting moreblocks.stairsplus_in_creative_inventory = false Gael-de-Sailly: Hi, how do you increase the mapblock loading distance ? Setting 'max_block_send_distance = 30' doesn't help for me. nephele: i think kp_plus or so to increase the vision range? Gael-de-Sailly: kp_plus? Gael-de-Sailly: ah ok the key + Gael-de-Sailly: it's not what I mean Gael-de-Sailly: it increases the distance at which the blocks are rendered if they are loaded, but it doesn't load them beyond 160 nodes Krock: so the server needs to send them Krock: max_block_send_distance = 10 Krock: and if they're not yet generated: max_block_generate_distance = 10 Krock: use latter with caution. range 10 creates a lot of unused mapblocks in your world Gael-de-Sailly: I set max_block_send_distance = 30 and there is no difference with 10, loading distance is still ~160 nodes Gael-de-Sailly: i'm on singleplayer Krock: maybe there's an engine limit somewhere Gael-de-Sailly: sounds like Gael-de-Sailly: just tested by reducing this setting to 5 and this actually reduces the loading range Touchatonku: hi jas_: hello Zughy: hey there Corey[m]1: Hey, I have a lighting question, is there a way to prevent lights from progating outside of a closed box (or did I misconfigure my node somehow), the issue is light appears outside of an enclosed concrete box, where the light is placed inside the box sfan5: how does the box look? Corey[m]1: one moment Corey[m]1: I'll see if I can whip up a screenshot Corey[m]1: and I forgot I have no way to upload it Corey[m]1: great Krock: sunlight_propagates = false Krock: paramtype (1) may not be "light" Corey[m]1: Well my mod is currently broken, my tests are failing and I'm kinda impatient to fix it atm Corey[m]1: The issue is a node as a light source inside an enclosed cube (made of nodes) is somehow lighting outside of that cube Corey[m]1: I'll double check if the enclosing nodes have sunlight_propogates set Corey[m]1: The paramtype is set to light for the node Krock: if it shines through node edges, update Minetest. Krock: this was fixed somewhen during 0.5.0-dev period (IIRC) Corey[m]1: welp, this was 5.1 built from source Corey[m]1: but it's windows... Corey[m]1: so.,anything is possible Corey[m]1: I'll try the latest on my linux machine (once I fix these tests) Corey[m]1: Welp, the problem persists even on the latest master Krock: please don't blame me. it's your mod. * Krock: runs Corey[m]1: Here are some screenshots: https://yatm.icedragon.space/assets/screenshots/uploads/screenshot_20200503_131843.png Corey[m]1: Nah I'm not blaming you, I know the engine has some... rough edges Krock: definitely wrong node definition Krock: replace that with cobble and it'll be dark Corey[m]1: one sec Corey[m]1: I forgot the filename for the other Krock: //replace whatever:node default:cobble Corey[m]1: Inside: https://yatm.icedragon.space/assets/screenshots/uploads/screenshot_20200503_131853.png Corey[m]1: Inside of replacing the node, I can always just steal parts of the cobble definition for my concrete Corey[m]1: inside > instead Krock: try updating the light within the mapblock Krock: maybe it's just buggy and outdated NetherEran: I think I recreated you bug Corey[m]1: So, in short just replace the lights and see if that resolves it? NetherEran: does it have paramtype = "light" in its definition? Corey[m]1: Yep Krock: The paramtype is set to light for the node Corey[m]1: I define all my nodes with it.. Krock: I told you to not do that Corey[m]1: Is that an issue NetherEran: if you want light to not go through them it is Krock: naah, it's just that light shines through Corey[m]1: Welp, TIL Corey[m]1: I'll remove it and give it a twirl again Corey[m]1: Well, removing the paramtype didn't solve it... Corey[m]1: I'll try setting it to none and try again NetherEran: did you use /fixlight on the nodes? If not they'll keep glowing until they're replaced Corey[m]1: I just did Corey[m]1: and nothing changed Corey[m]1: Huh Corey[m]1: Well now it works, for some reason the world I was in refused to fix the lights Corey[m]1: Even placing new nodes had the same light issue Corey[m]1: but at least it works now Corey[m]1: Thanks for the help @NetherEran and @Krock, I shall now return to lurking freelikegnu: ugh I freelikegnu: I'm so frustrated, what can I use to store data of things my mobs do while my mod is running? minetest.get_mod_storage() only works when the mod starts up :P NetherEran: you can use the storage object that get_mod_storage returns not only when the mod starts up rubenwardy: You should store it in a file local Zughy: what was the mod to show player nicknames only if they weren't behind a block? rubenwardy: Zughy: rubenwardy: !mod [playertag] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Entity based nametags [playertag] by sparky - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19401 - https://github.com/Elkien3/playertag sfan5: perhaps that should be added as a client-side feature for nametags Zughy: yes pls sfan5: scaling them with size + obscuring them sfan5: though if you add that you are very close to a general "render this text onto this texture pls" feature sfan5: (which is also heavily requested) Zughy: well it'd be great, especially because translations right now don't work on signs_lib ( :( ) freelikegnu: I'm really loving some of the builtin lua helpers "table.copy" and "string.split", I almost added code to do these before I noticed they exist! freelikegnu: Today I released a big update to the goblins that gives them proc gen names and improves the trading interactions freelikegnu: https://i.imgur.com/ULmjxUq.png jonadab: Oh, names, nice. jonadab: I've just been reading the forum thread on the goblins mod. Looks very interesting. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: set_fov: Add support for time-based transitions (#9705) 13e0ea87f https://git.io/Jf3z6 (152020-05-02T10:52:11Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: ci: Update Github Actions workflows (#9774) 1361d9398 https://git.io/Jf3zS (152020-05-02T10:52:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Auto delete MetaData when = 0 (#8770) 13808eb4c https://git.io/Jf3zQ (152020-05-02T10:57:04Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add a convention about z_index (#9701) 135c96f57 https://git.io/Jf3gn (152020-05-02T11:12:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add 'content_offset' and 'padding' style properties for buttons (#9661) 13cb9a44e https://git.io/Jf3g6 (152020-05-02T11:32:02Z) Zughy: hey core devs: https://privatebin.net/?e771503887afd97a#J33mqFrUBpTNeSdSgZoTV8Nvpgtbxshgs9H9KEUL9QJL Zughy: also: is it possible to block the access to the inventory via Lua? Like, I don't want people to open it sfan5: don't think so sfan5: best you cando is remove the inventory formspec Zughy: is MT shipped with the inventory by default? Calinou: yes, it's part of the core engine Calinou: (but it can be themed in Lua) Calinou: many behaviors can also be added, see the unified_inventory mod nephele: Zughy, you can block compliant clients, you can't block cheaters i think nephele: you may be able to just return false in attempts by players to manipulate inventories, but not block them from viewing it Zughy: nephele, the block will do for now :) may you be so kind to point me where to start/look? Zughy: of the manipulation I mean nephele: I think in minetest.register_node you may be able to use {allow on}_metadata_inventory_{take put move} nephele: I think in minetest.register_node you may be able to use {allow on}_metadata_inventory_{take put move} nephele: For the players main inventory i am not quite certain, but you could make a detached inventory show that instead in the default player formspec and define there functions (and for all other inventories block moving from or into main, thus making it less relevant) ntat: Hi. Is it possible to add some ppa to antiX 19.2 to install current Minetest? In repo is only 4.17. Krock: ntat: hello. This question would be best asked in the antiX channel Krock: in our release cycle there's no contacts for an antiX developer who takes care of it NetherEran: you could use flatpak to install it or compile from source Krock: compiling from source helps one person, PPA helps many, an flatpak most (if it works) Krock: *, and ntat: OK, thanks, I go to find how to run flatpak on antiX :-) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Koward: Hello. sfan5: hello Koward: I stumbled upon Minetest while looking at procedural noise usages and libraries, and I found this project to be very impressive. orbea: Krock: re: flatpak https://flatkill.org/ Koward: I was wondering if I wanted to use noise.h&.cpp (which are very well done and have useful features I could not find elsewhere), could I share compiled code containing it (with proper mentions of MT, ofc) or would that be a violation of LGPL? freq: el: r u srs freq: where do you play Krock: freq: hi. on my computer mostly el: i don't currently. i'm in here because i've done work on the voxelands fork freq: o nete Krock: Koward: I'm not a lawyer but as long you can provide a link to the source code it's fine Krock: source code of the binary, so to say. rubenwardy: el: are you / did you used to be freenode staff? el: used to be Krock: Koward: it's pretty much just perlin noise with some smoothing features around. Those functions are also exposed to the Lua API, in case you'd like to make a mod out of it Krock: .. which is also possible for map generation Koward: I might in the future do a mod, but as I stumbled on it while doing in-progress development I would like to try some parts by integrating with a current Unreal project. freelikegnu: jonadab: thanks hope you enjoy it! ntat_: I install flatpak version of Minetest, but I have problem: ERROR[Main]: An unhandled exception occurred: Audio: Global Initialization: Device Open ntat_: src/main.cpp:e7: int main(int, char**): A fatal error occurred: Audio: Global Initialization: Device Open ntat_: This is version 5.1.0 rubenwardy: this is a bug due to there not being a sound devide available rubenwardy: connecting speakers will stop the error rubenwardy: there's a bug report open somewhere ntat_: Nothing change. I must have Pulseuadio installed? rubenwardy: issue: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7250 rubenwardy: you can disable sound by adding `enable_sound = false` to minetest.conf freelikegnu: hmm is there a way to get the blockseed value of a pos? argyle: Is there a way to get an entity name from a GenericCAO? m_name seems to be set to "" in all? cases jas_: lal Zughy: hey there Rocket Jump guy :D powi: Hi there, I have an issue trying to make a translation for a mod. I'm not able to make the translation work. Can anyone help ? Here's the repo of the mod (with locale and all) : https://github.com/FirePowi/dice NetherEran: looks like you didn't specify the textdomain in the translation file NetherEran: try adding `# textdomain:dice` as the first line powi: Thanks !! powi: Oh yes it works :3 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Lejo1 -> 03minetest/minetest: Give the online lua mainmenu also the client_list and mods (#8691) 1374d9b60 https://git.io/JfOht (152020-05-01T14:47:17Z) ena: hi! does anyone know how to get the coordinates of the spawn point? thanks :) heavygale: ingame or for a mod? heavygale: ingame command: /set static_spawnpoint heavygale: requires the “server” privilege sfan5: if you do not have a static spawnpoint set then the spawnpoint is not constant ANAND: ^ heavygale: i none is set, isn't is then 0,0,0 ? nephele_: No, i tried that, and i keep spawning in a rock :D ena: heavygale: ingame ena: and, I think the spawnpoint is constant even if I didn't define it? ena: at least if I die or if other players join they'll spawn at the same place nephele_: sfan5, anyway to ask the engine to calculate a spawnpoint for you? sfan5: the engine does that when you respawn, but I don't think you can ask for it ena: alternatively is there a "teleport to spawn" command? nephele_: sfan5, :/, i don't think i can ask it to respawn either ena: i'm setting up a new local server and would like to build something at spawn, but I'm not sure which tile is the spawn point precisely nephele_: the buildin /kill command will just tell you that dmg is disabled if you don't have it on (personally i dont see how those are related) nephele_: ena, then use set static spawnpoint as suggested above sfan5: nephele_: yeah ena: but this will modify the spawning point, right? sfan5: nephele_: well if damage is disable, the player obviously can't die nephele_: sfan5, i don't see why tbh nephele_: respawning and getting killed is to me two destinct points heavygale: https://wiki.minetest.net/Server_commands#Server-related sfan5: ena: it will yes, if you want to keep something to the original spawn point I'd suggest joining with a new name to determine where it is and setting the static point there heavygale: /set only changes it if you give a new value too sfan5: nephele_: I didn't say "the player can't respawn", I didn't say "the player can't die" sfan5: eh sfan5: second "didn't" -> "did" nephele_: well i did ask about respaning above, so i assumed you were responding to that :) ena: @sfan5 I did just that :) well I didn't know changing the name was enough so I did it with another computer >.< juangh: hi there guys...i was looking the way to put my first access users in an specific coordinates... juangh: i miss the var for server juangh: someone can help me to remember? juangh: setspawn? juangh: static_spawnpoint? Krock: yes. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/settingtypes.txt#L1125-L1126 juangh: accessing Krock: reading. please wait... juangh: excelent...Krock...yes, I read, but i doesn't see the way to put the coords...now yes... juangh: Krock, thanks! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! orbea: with minetest.get_objects_inside_radius(pos, radius), would a radius of 5 be 5 nodes in any direction from the pos? sfan5: yes orbea: thanks sfan5: a directional radius would be stupid if you couldn't control the direction deltanedas: im wondering about 2 things: deltanedas: - can you add metadata to players deltanedas: - can you register an on_punchobject function when a player punches a non player object? Krock: deltanedas: 1st is done, 2nd needs implementation for the punched entity deltanedas: so can i do it for all entities deltanedas: or only entities i specifically tell to call callbacks deltanedas: ill look at some mob api mods deltanedas: maybe they have some callback tables i can use powi: Hi there, how to escape the "=" in stringlines in the translation files (using minetest.get_translator(textdomain)) ? Krock: @= ? powi: Do I have to put in both in the file and in the S function ? (S = minetest.get_translator(textdomain)) NetherEran: I think only in the file powi: Okay, I'll try it :) Krock: NetherEran: thought wrong Krock: the text within S() must have an identical string in the translation file powi: Well it worked Krock: @n escapes \n, thus I thought @= would do the same NetherEran: @= as escape works powi: S("A function f(x,y,z), e.g. 'x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - 100'. A node will be set at (x,y,z) if f(x,y,z)=0. Can also use inequalities, e.g. 'x^2 + y^2 <= 100'.") powi: A function f(x,y,z), e.g. 'x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - 100'. A node will be set at (x,y,z) if f(x,y,z)@=0. Can also use inequalities, e.g. 'x^2 + y^2 <@= 100'.=Une fonction f(x,y,z), par exemple : « x² + y² + z² - 100 ». Un block sera positionné à (x,y,z) si f(x,y,z) @= 0. Peut aussi être une inéquation, par exemple : « x² + y² <@= 100 ». powi: This worked fine Krock: would look much better using a paste service, but well nice if it works :) NetherEran: appearently the escapes get resolved before the strings are matched powi: Oh yep, totally forgot, sry Krock: after two years I still don't know where the automatic translation update script is.. Krock: Wuzzy: help? ^ Wuzzy: util/updatepo.sh Krock: the other for client translations Wuzzy: oh you meant that one Krock: originally #6325 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6325 -- Add scripts to find and update translations. by Ekdohibs Wuzzy: wtf its still not merged yet? boo! Wuzzy: there are multiple update scripts, none of them official Krock: it's closed... Krock: explains why I can't remember the location then. thanks for the information Wuzzy: it has been shut down by paramat. nice, thank you 😆 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow connection info to be missing from minetest.get_player_informat… 13ac368af https://git.io/Jf3tD (152020-05-01T19:44:28Z) Zughy: what does SSCSM stand for? GreenXenith: Server-Sent Client-Side Mod xachman: Hey guys do you have to turn on TNT on your server? sfan5: you do have to yes xachman: whats the option and where? sfan5: enable_tnt = true in minetest.conf xachman: Ok lets see if my kids destroy the entire world Powi: And this is a PR for mathplot ! Here I come with my PR for mathplot :3 https://github.com/kyleclaassen/minetest_mathplot/pull/21 :) sfan5: !title MinetestBot: sfan5: Made it translatable AND translated it in french by FirePowi · Pull Request #21 · kyleclaassen/minetest_mathplot · GitHub Zughy: Hey guys, if anyone would like to contribute with their opinions about MT for now, it'd be great: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24631 Zughy: nobody asked me to do it, but I think it's a good thing..? I'm also converting the whole in a txt file with a sort of TL;DR for mods if they will ever have a look at it _Zaizen_: Hi everyone I'm having a bit of a problem with minetest and mods. I'm trying to load signss_lib wich depends only on default and every time I enable it and save it disables it when I exit the setting tab. This problem doesn't persist on mods wich don't have dependencies sfan5: do you have signs_lib installed twice for some reason? _Zaizen_: I have it in another modpack. sfan5: the "automatically disables" is a bug in the menu but you should really just have it once _Zaizen_: I've tried many times and also downloaded again minetest. Same problem every time. _Zaizen_: Wihout the other modpack it works sfan5: delete one copy of signs_lib _Zaizen_: Yep without the other modpack it works. I guess I will have to load the modpack I want everytime in the mods folder :/ MarwolTuk: lua-api question: is there a way to get a list of all registered nodes with a certain group and rating? I found ndef->getIds() in the engine but this dosn't seem to be exposed into lua. sfan5: for name, def in pairs(minetest.registered_nodes) do if def.group.whatever == 2 then print(name) end end MarwolTuk: Okay. So nothing better than iterating over all registered nodes. Thanks. sfan5: you can cache the result if there are performance concerns MarwolTuk: I'm not as deep into minetest yet to tell which parts are performance-relevant but I think on node placement (on_construct) it shouldn't be that problem since it's not called that often. cheapie: So someone put up a "railroad crossing when wet" sign... of course, I had to make it actually work: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/rrxing-when-wet.webm GreenXenith: rofl that's great a1fa: so i am installing a dedicated server for my kids.. any tips? a1fa: how do you specify what game to load a1fa: where is the game stored by default a1fa: /usr/lib/minetest? sfan5: /usr/share/minetest/games/minetest_game usually sfan5: you can specify one using the --gameid parameter sfan5: a gameid that is, not the path a1fa: i think they want the mineclone2 a1fa: do i just dump it in there sfan5: a1fa: extract it there yes a1fa: sfan5: how do you generate the world now? sfan5: the world will be generated as you play a1fa: hm a1fa: game is crashing :( sfan5: if you want a folder, just start minetestserver and it will create one a1fa: the game loads, and then crashes sfan5: and does it print an error message? a1fa: https://pastebin.com/raw/9TDvh4B5 sfan5: is the version of minetest you are running perhaps too old for mineclone2? a1fa: 5.1.1 a1fa: minetestserver --version a1fa: Minetest 5.1.1 (Linux) sfan5: did you download a version of mineclone that is compatible with 5.1.1? sfan5: because if you just grabbed the newest one it will only run on 5.2 a1fa: ah a1fa: i grabbed 0.6.4 a1fa: err 0.64.0 a1fa: i see the errors in my ways a1fa: thank a1fa: yo sfan5: most mods and games are compatible with somewhat older versions even if you grab the latest one sfan5: Mineclone2 is an exception to this a1fa: kids will be happy a1fa: they had bunch of local worlds between their laptops, but they want their friends to play too a1fa: can you generate a new world through the console? sfan5: delete the old one, restart minetest, there will be a new (different) one a1fa: yep did that a few times a1fa: is there a way to do w/o ssh access sfan5: oh sfan5: there isn't Lone_Wolf: Sounds like it wouldn't work well if you wanted to log into the same server from both sides of a dualboot Lone_Wolf: What if you used the 'change password' button in the ESC field? Lone_Wolf: Guess I'll put this in the GH issue after reading a lil bit more deltanedas: no it wouldnt, unless you used the same username and the server was a-ok with that deltanedas: and you copied the storage deltanedas: (builtin can use core.get_mod_storage() yes?) Lone_Wolf: Posted in the GH issue jas_: hi jas_: sucks * BuckarooBanzai: looks confused as jas_ jas_: sorry for looking confusedly, i was referring to the forum because it looks new but still seemed slow when i tiredly typed that nephele: hellu heavygale: hii Jason_Grace: Hi there! Jason_Grace: Hello> heavygale: hi Jason_Grace: What is going on? Jason_Grace: How are you? Zughy: Hey there; is there a way to retrieve all the players names who have ever connected to the server? In Lua sfan5: you can iterate the auth database Krock: lua_api.txt Ctrl+F get_auth Krock: local handler = minetest.get_auth_handler() Krock: for k, v in pairs(handler:iterate()) do ... end sfan5: I think it's handler.iterate() though Krock: was about to correct myself about that one Krock: yes, it is. Krock: yet it would not make a difference (yet) Zughy: I was looking for the wrong terms, thank you both Krock: !nextz Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! nephele: !previous Krock: Segmentation fault (core dumped) Krock: (gdb) nephele: don't dump that on me p_gimeno: I would never have guessed that handler.iterate() was a static method rather than an instance method MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Zughy -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix cart inventory image rendering (#2666) 13d88e551 https://git.io/JfOnP (152020-04-30T17:51:39Z) Zughy: now I'm famous nephele: yes Zughy: please don't push, I can sign autographs for everyone nephele: [social distancing] Krock: Zughy: pls give be one Krock: *me Krock: we could make a religion out of this nephele: maybe. Zughy: the main goal is to create another Minetest, but don't anything to the core devs, Krock Zughy: *don't tell nephele: Another one? this one isn't even finished! Krock: Zughy: too late bruh Krock: they're watching you Zughy: FORK AS MUCH AS YOU CAN! Zughy: The Truly Original MinetestTM, sounds good to me Zughy: but seriously, how's life for you core devs? You have tons of stuff to go trhough every day I guess nephele: ™ nephele: i'm sure krock is just happy to not make ee mods anymore Krock: Zughy: constant 165 PRs open, where half of them needs either rebase or adoption, 20 are kinda interesting and the other just cause discussion stuff I don't really care about rubenwardy: Zughy: https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/012/this_is_fine.jpeg Krock: ^ fits prefectly Zughy: how about shutting them down? Zughy: Wuzzy actually brought this problem up just today: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24629 ANAND: haha Krock: TL;DR please scr267: Does anyone know if the technic mod has HV machines like grinders and furnaces? scr267: I looked at the code and I can't see anything like that, yet I've got players who say they have seen that Zughy: Krock, "there are too many PRs, you should be more aggressive in saying no because it gets worse and worse" Zughy: also it says that most of the times core devs don't focus on the big picture, starting debates over nothing Zughy: AKA wasting time Zughy: also people are suggesting to have more reviewers. The end ANAND: A possible solution: More core devs Krock: thanks a lot for the TL;DR sfan5: I think he has a particular dev in mind when he says that (regarding debates) Krock: pretty sure that's the case, yes Zughy: Krock, it was a wall of text, I did my best :( Krock: sometimes it's difficult to figure out whether a PR is actually worth adding, but on the other hand the work is largely done already Krock: the implementation might not be generic enough, or it's too sophisticated. it's easy to say "be more aggressive", but in reality closing PRs also hurts deltanedas: just a note on media taking forever to load on 5.3.0 deltanedas: issue has disappeared, load time is same as 5.1.0 sfan5: still on android 64-bit or? Krock: > issue has disappeared Krock: case closed deltanedas: no i switched to 32 bit when you said it was about arm64 deltanedas: it got faster but today its gone entirely nephele: Some parts i agree with, some i don't, i dont think prioritizing complex prs helps at all, especially if the goal is to keep the number of prs down heh sfan5: I see, the "random" nature of this issue is known nephele: also coding style... geez just configure your edirot properly Krock: another "random" nature are timeouts in-game. Yet I have no idea how to debug those, seen first after 5.2.0 stable Krock: packets are delayed for tens of seconds to finally catch up again after a while sfan5: that's just normal in-order delivery of packets sfan5: this is only an issue if mods do stupid stuff like sending updates 60 times a second sfan5: ...which many seem to do unfortunately sfan5: well okay there may still be a bug somewhere, but in principle that's how in-order delivery works Krock: which means that they were out-of-order in 5.2.0? hard to imagine sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nephele: sfan5, heh.. i probably do, for singleplayer that doesnt matter, but i need to do this for animated formspecs on machines if i cant make them clientside ;) nephele: maybe i should just not animate them and wait for server send mods deltanedas: server provided csm would enable lots of complex formspecs deltanedas: 60fps animation 1 send_formspec nephele: It would allow me to simplify mine, not make em more complex deltanedas: relatively, its already complex nephele: and with nice input apis i can make them a lot easier to use, too p_gimeno: Krock: is that easy to reproduce? Krock: p_gimeno: 10 minutes in CTFv2, for example Krock: not so easy. p_gimeno: I was thinking about bisecting, but with ~10 minutes per repro... p_gimeno: Krock: any issue number? Krock: probably a task for rainy Saturday evenings (2 days) Krock: p_gimeno: none yet because I don't know how to reliably reproduce it sfan5: p_gimeno: if you're wondering about the other timeout issue -> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9107 Krock: additionally I haven't heard of any similar reports yet p_gimeno: sfan5: no, the one described by Krock but thanks Zughy: also, back on the PR topic: is there any public "path" you're following? Like, we'd like to have this with 5.4, this with 6.0 and this with 7.0 rubenwardy: no Zughy: Have you ever considered it? rubenwardy: we occasionally agree on the focus - that was GUI the last two releases, and Android this release p_gimeno: a roadmap rubenwardy: but forward planning like this is not feasible with volunteers rubenwardy: individual devs publish their roadmaps here: https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=7 p_gimeno: maybe it is, if the planning is agreed Zughy: Yes it is, ruben, if you hack their computers, discover where they live and threat their families Zughy: it's easy :( Krock: no roadmap for me. I fix bugs and try to make the code not worse. Zughy: it's not for you core devs, it's more for people who want to conribute I think Zughy: "oh they wanna work on this? Ok, I can help" Krock: well, that's usually happening in popular issues. when someone's keen implementing that particular request or to fix the bug, they're opening a PR Zughy: It doesn't have to be strict, of course; it's just to give a hint Krock: #FYI 8768 Krock: FYI #8768 Zughy: well.. we're talking about 900+ issues ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8768 -- Define Minetest's direction by rubenwardy Zughy: oh nice, let me see that Krock: more comments than lines are usually a good sign /s p_gimeno: Krock: why is that sarcasm? Krock: p_gimeno: don't long discussions and many comments tend to be unsolvable, especially given the various different opinions of the contributors? p_gimeno: ah wait, you meant issue comments, not code comments Krock: "111". probably all comments in total Zughy: hmm, imho it's too generic that direction file rubenwardy: too specific is impossible to agree on rubenwardy: what questions do you want answering? Krock: even this seems impossible to agree on rubenwardy: it's not rubenwardy: just taking a bit of back and forth to draft Zughy: off the top of my head I can't really say right now Zughy: I guess stuff like "will it distanciate more from MC? And how?" Zughy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestones I was talking more about milestones Zughy: stuff like "how Minetest is different from Minecraft? Do players understand it (the answer is no)? What could we do to make it more obvious?" rubenwardy: I've never played Minecraft Zughy: or even, idk, surveys like "what's the aspect you'd like to see improved the most?". And from all of these data, write down something. At least that's what I'd do Zughy: I spent years developing servers on Minecraft, trust me, it's very similar as for now Zughy: +1 on formspecs and GUI tho Zughy: also on importing 3d models without swearing against any kind of religion p_gimeno: yeah I was going to say that once that's agreed on, you can try to have post-release meetings to decide the roadmap for the next release p_gimeno: based on that Lone_Wolf: Just realized that there's an arrow icon to the right of the last poster's name when looking at the 'View your posts' page and similar Zughy: done https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24631&p=372054#p372054 ntat_: Hi ntat_: I have Minetest 0.4.17.1 on old laptop. Where must I unpack MineClone2 to .minetest folder? sfan5: ~/.minetest/games/ heavygale: mods folder heavygale: oh no ok heavygale: it's a game, so yes, games folder :D ntat_: ~/.minetest/games/mineclone2/ ? heavygale: try ntat_: OK ntat_: great, it works, thanks :) rubenwardy: ntat_: btw, the latest version of Mineclone only support 5.2.0 rubenwardy: you'll need to update Minetest or use an older version of Mineclne sfan5: the forum post links a version that works with 0.4.17 I believe ntat_: rubenwardy, I know. I download right version of mineclone2 rubenwardy: cool ntat_: :) ntat_: I have one question else - my son watch Minecraft movies and after play in Minetest → MineClone2 and ask me, where is witch spawn egg? Is this egg in mineclone2? :D Lone_Wolf: Should be able to search 'witch' in the creative inventory ntat_: Lone_Wolf, OK, I see, thanks :-) deltanedas: anyone else on 5.3.0 notice that mesh objects are way too dark at midnight sfan5: does this sound like it? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9636 Zughy: is it possible for hypertext in formspecs to work with percentages such as "size=125%"? deltanedas: yes i made that issue deltanedas: i was wondering if anyone else encountered it on 5.3.9 deltanedas: .0* sfan5: I never play on Android so I guess not deltanedas: so it doesnt occur on pc? FrostRanger: Does anyone know how to use a texture pack server side? FrostRanger: trying to use one on my server and I've tried enabling it like you would if it were clientside and creating a "mod" with it to no avail rubenwardy: rename it to `server` and placing it in textures/ FrostRanger: ok, will try that, thx FrostRanger: rubenwardy: thx, it worked :D rubenwardy: I should add a warning about that rajmahal: Another question, does fly mode exist as default mod, or is it built in to mt.modbase.mtgame? rajmahal: I have looked in mods, but do not see. nephele: either it's in builtin or the engine nephele: but i highly suspect it is the engine jonadab: Hmm, I wish we could get more of the mod authors/maintainers onto freenode. Having conversations on the forum is awkward when it's down so much. jonadab: Though I do appreciate the value of being indexed by Google. Lone_Wolf: Which authors are you talking with? cheapie: Would anything Really Bad™ happen if I was to allow players to set any formspec they wanted on a particular node, possibly with a length limit? It's more or less my understanding here that malformed formspecs shouldn't crash anything. Lone_Wolf: I think malformed formspecs to crash things tf2ftw_: hi tf2ftw_: I'm trying to craft a tnt stick but its not working. I've followed the recipe in the wiki and I have TNT enabled but nothing.. any ideas? tf2ftw_: I tried installing TNT from the mt_game repo and still the same issue. tf2ftw_: Anyone else having that problem? VanessaE: you have to enable it in your minetest.conf VanessaE: i.e. in the "Settings" tab, as well as in the world "Configuration" tab (which you did) VanessaE: it'll be in "All Settings"; search for "tnt" VanessaE: https://imgur.com/X4c4yvs.png tf2ftw_: VanessaE, ahh thanks. I'm running MT server and didn't think to look in the conf. I thought the base mods where enabled by default. tf2ftw_: VanessaE, hmm, I'm not seeing it in mintest.conf on my server VanessaE: :) VanessaE: it won't be in there by default VanessaE: just write it inb VanessaE: -b Guest41637: tnt and fire are disabled when in server mode VanessaE: ^ but they can be explicitly re-enabled. Guest41637: ywa Guest41637: yes tf2ftw_: I see. Sorry I missed that in the docs.. Is that doc-ed someplace? VanessaE: yes, but don't ask me where, all you'll get is a lie, or a vague handwave at best :) tf2ftw_: ha tf2ftw_: so the setting should be enable_tnt = true \n enable_fire = true tf2ftw_: ? VanessaE: well..for tnt yeah VanessaE: but you don't want fire. tf2ftw_: no? VanessaE: unless you don't mind burning down entire continents :P VanessaE: (Unless the mtg devs have since limited the spread of a fire that is) Guest41637: I think the options in the config are enable_tnt and enable_fire but Im not sure atm tf2ftw_: haha. Guest41637: haha, yes I burned entire forests in singleplayer, that's why they are disabled by default in server mdoe tf2ftw_: ah that makes sense tf2ftw_: I got the it working. Thanks! My son will be very happy when I show him this :) Walker: forum still down ? Walker: -.- ANAND: Forum is technically up - it's just slower than a snail on sleeping pills :) Walker: xD ANAND: It takes me around 3 mins to load a page Walker: it is hosten on a 286 ;) ANAND: I hear they're in the process of fixing it Walker: ok, since the forum is don i ask here: Walker: exist a minetestbuild with software openGL ? Walker: i need it for a pc with no openGL Walker: and the software driver from irrlicht is ... ugly ? nephele: Walker, Maybe you can use llvmpipe? Walker: its WAY to slow xD nephele: It's the fastest software opengl renderer there is Walker: i like more with the speed of irrlicht-software Walker: but without the bugs from irrlicht-software Walker: oh ... with "irrlicht-software" i mean "irrlicht software-rendering" Walker: ok ... with llvmpipe and a special minetest.conf it works ^^ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Add docker build stage on Github actions 1300323e8 https://git.io/JfmAu (152020-04-29T05:48:08Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Add MetricsBackend with prometheus counter support 1356babab https://git.io/JfmAz (152020-04-29T05:48:08Z) Walker: i get 15fps ... thets enogh Walker: "genug" > "enogh" ? nephele: "genug" is "enough" nephele: Well, i don't know what your usecase is :P for normal playing maybe 15fps is not ideal nephele: surely Krock has some tips to beat the engine into submission for three more fpses Walker: ok ... created a server "HACKED server by Walker" Walker: please dont be angry ... its only for short time Kimapr: what does the "HACKED" part mean? Kimapr: Walker: ^ Walker: it display allways 512/768 users Walker: in th eserverlist Walker: in the serverlist Kimapr: you just modified the code. minetest is open source, so you are 100% allowed to do that, except maybe that serverlist owners can ban you from the serverlist Walker: IT WORKS !!! Walker: omg Walker: please dev-team ... fix this Walker: this can be a HUGE problem Walker: the idea cam from a talk with jjk1 an my server ^^ Walker: *on my server Walker: this build is also able to do thinks like "fast, fly, noclip" even withot privs Walker: and falling and swimming throw lava wihtout damage Walker: i think minetest need a verifikation Walker: like a hashsum Walker: for offical builds rubenwardy: nooopeee rubenwardy: that's against the open source philosophy rubenwardy: we don't maintain the majority of builds Walker: ok Walker: can i close my server again ? Walker: i am not happy to hav it open for a long time ^^ rubenwardy: if you stop hosting it, it'll disappear after 5 minutes Walker: ok, its gone ;) Walker: somehow I got a little goose bumps from myself Walker: means "goose bumps" the same as in german ? Walker: but the problem is allready known ? Walker: i dont need to report it on github ? rubenwardy: yeah Walker: yeah ... i dont need ? Walker: ok ^^ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04juozaspo -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix gettext detection and locale building (#9772) 133f275d7 https://git.io/JfYL8 (152020-04-29T10:49:55Z) Myron: Is it possible to create a player controlling (Baritone style) bot in the form of a minetest mod? Or does that require modifying the game's code? rubenwardy: Myron: who's controller who? rubenwardy: player-controlling bot: yes, attach the player to an entity and move the entity rubenwardy: player controlling a bot: yes, use an entity as normal Myron: Player-controllong bot. Myron: Baritone is a pathfinding bot - you can type a coord and it will control the player to walk there. So theoretically something like that is possible with minetest mods? rubenwardy: yes Myron: I see appguru: So how long are the forums expected to stay down? heavygale: until it's done - i guess appguru: Why didn't I think of that! heavygale: can't tell that :D Danil_Dm: Hello from Russia Ingar: with love tf2ftw: Hi heavygale: hi ANAND: hI appguru: HI ANAND: You noticed :D orbea: how would I tell if a player is underground? And say not just in a big hole (With sky access)? ANAND: You could perform a raycast up to a certain high y-limit and check for non-air nodes rubenwardy: the light level won't be 15 rubenwardy: daylight 15 = exposed to the sun orbea: but that wouldnt work at night? ANAND: Even if a solid node is way above? rubenwardy: you can get the daylight during node rubenwardy: and no, it doesn't work with a solid node above but neither day a raycas celeron55: the forum is up now and should work ANAND: The raycast would work with the assumption that there wouldn't be any nodes above the given y-value - not particularly accurate, but should work most of the time ANAND: Oh nice ANAND: Glad to know the problem's solved orbea: the raycast seems like a potentially good idea, thanks rubenwardy: the raycast is much worse than checking for sunlight rubenwardy: it has no benefit and is much much slower orbea: but I need it to work at night rubenwardy: orbea: daylight exists during night rubenwardy: it doesn't forget the daylight ANAND: Really? orbea: oh, i misunderstood rubenwardy: it just doesn't render it ANAND: o_O rubenwardy: forgetting it would be incredibly wasteful orbea: given that then I guess I'll try light level :) p_gimeno: do you need it to distinguish being inside a building from being underground? orbea: no Lone_Wolf: https://i.imgur.com/X2RyQSE.png rubenwardy: I have also been banned * behalebabo: is b& Lone_Wolf: lol Wuzzy: what' the timezone for the forums? sfan5: probably UTC Lone_Wolf: You banned too? Wuzzy: yes 😀 Wuzzy: spam database Wuzzy: at least we know the reason for the forum slowdown now Wuzzy: apparently some crawler from China accessed a very high number of random urls, keeping the server busy Wuzzy: must be a pretty large ip range too rubenwardy: it was a big subnet appguru: glad it's fixed now :) appguru: although the new "modern" forum theme doesn't look too well rubenwardy: the padding seems off to me appguru: yes appguru: so much wasted space appguru: was far more compact before appguru: that space would be better used for an acceptable font size Lone_Wolf: Can't make a Stylus theme to change that? freelikegnu: wow the forum is bonkers: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YxR8WmTnvh/ rubenwardy: I think there isn't enough space rubenwardy: the header is too big and the space around posts isn't enough appguru: both header & footer are too big Wuzzy: Btw I agree that CloudFlare is the pest. it seems they are everywhere in the WWW right now, it's very scary Wuzzy: nobody should have that much power over the net appguru: lol Pest: what texmex: I’m banned too xD appguru: you should probably get another nick Pest Pest: no appguru: well, then expect some mentions... Wuzzy: LOL freelikegnu: are we going to be banned every time we vist the forum? Walker: "You have been banned from this board until Wed Apr 29, 2020 16:21." ... wait what !? Pest: should i prepare for unforseen consequences? Wuzzy: no Walker: what can i have done WHILE THE FORUM WAS OFFLINE !?! Walker: lol Wuzzy: don't worry rubenwardy: malfunctioning software meaning that everyone has been baned Wuzzy: it seems celeron55 has banned a very large ip range Walker: ok i see Lone_Wolf: I always knew you two were the people spamming the forums >:( * Lone_Wolf: was also banned Walker: everyone is banned xD appguru: probably just celeron55 banning *.*.*.* Wuzzy: the reason for the forum slowness was apparetly a rogue cralwer from china which made a very high amount of requets in a short time Wuzzy: i guess c55 is busy fixing it right now appguru: most likely appguru: is crawler really the right term for that? shouldn't it be called botnet? appguru: or ddos? heavygale: uh, no longer banned appguru: apparently it's 15:40 UTC rn appguru: oh yay unbanned as well appguru: thought I'd have to wait another 40 mins Lone_Wolf: I'll let you update the Discord ruben lol Walker: yay, it works now ^^ Walker: thanks c55 ^^ Walker: but th enew theme ... Walker: is not "so nice" Walker: xD Lone_Wolf: ~~Imagine not having a custom theme~~ appguru: Lone_Wolf: expects Markdown to work on IRC appguru: I actually once wanted to make an IRC client supporting MD Wuzzy: in b4 soeone writes "# trololo" appguru: Walker: set the size to 120%, then it looks acceptable appguru: or probably 110%, 120 is a bit large ANAND: I notice some extra polish in the UI ANAND: But GD's dark theme seems to be broken freelikegnu: long live the minetest forum! Lone_Wolf: GD isn't up yet. Gonna roll my own dark-green theme orbea: so instead of just checking the light level, I need to check it for every position within a range of positions and only return early from a function if not a single node within that range has a light level of 15 (sunlight). So far I got this, but I feel might be a better way? http://ix.io/2k3s Lone_Wolf: Banned from the forums again lol Lone_Wolf: What are you trying to do orbea? VanessaE: Lone_Wolf: maintenance orbea: Lone_Wolf: trying to stop underground weather orbea: VanessaE: i stopped trying to do that Lone_Wolf: Guess tjat Lone_Wolf: *that's a little over my head then orbea: heh, no worries, im struggling to learn lua Lone_Wolf: Are you trying to account for people digging straight down? orbea: ideally yes Lone_Wolf: Actually no that wouldn't make sense Krock: orbea: my eyes hurt seeing minetest.env: which should be removed for years Lone_Wolf: Wherever sunlight is weather can technically fall orbea: Krock: i just copied an existing light check in the mod... Krock: that doesn't solve my eye problem Lone_Wolf: Considering the fact you're looping like that it might just be best to loop through that range of positions and spawn your particles if the light level is 15 Krock: if your check area is very large, consider using VManip Lone_Wolf: That was you can have snow fall down a shaft but you won't get a raining roof Lone_Wolf: *way Noclip: Lol, just noticed that I will get pinged everytime someone writes about noclip-mode ... orbea: gotta afk for a little bit, but will look into vmanip :) Krock: rather than checking the borders of minp/maxp I'd go for a 2D loop, but skipping every 5th node or so Krock: > VoxelManip:get_light_data() rajmahal: "Found in stop spam forum database". Because my 7 posts were too much for you to handle? Or is this just a normal error? Lone_Wolf: Everyone has gotten that at least twice now rajmahal: Glad I didn't start swearing. The Lone_Wolf: The cause of the forum lag was a chinese crawler bot with a large range of IPs rajmahal: I mean thank you rajmahal: Chinese? Ironic. Noclip: So all those Forum and Wiki loading errors in the last weeks were caused by that silly bot? rubenwardy: breaking news: small hobbiest project attacked by CCP rajmahal: They've been meddling for years, cuckoo-19 and minetest is just the tip of the ice pick. Ingar: I think I banned china from my forum at one point appguru: Finally the theme looks nice again sfan5: I'm surprised that you don't prefer a more modern theme sfan5: but I agree that the old theme is better Krock: wasn't there a link to the last post within the topic list (forum)? Krock: my mouse moved to the right side, so I suppose it was the date that led to the last post sfan5: true Krock: muscle memory can't be wrong :3 sfan5: do you mean on viewforum, the index page or both? Lone_Wolf: Yeah there was Lone_Wolf: You have to click the unread logo now Lone_Wolf: Round icon on the left Krock: ah okay rubenwardy: https://rwdy.uk/JCGUI.png rubenwardy: works for me sfan5: no on the right side sfan5: where "by " is rubenwardy: I can see "(New posts)"? rubenwardy: oh, last post? rubenwardy: heh nevermind appguru: big oof appguru: reporting doesn't work anymore, quite some links are broken sfan5: no more reports -> no more problems, obvious isn't it? Krock: and less to do for moderators because there are no problems Krock: double profit Myron2957392374: What makes people play/ develop mods for minetest, when there are other voxel-based games available like Minecraft? Krock: what's a minekraft appguru: Minetest is designed to modding whereas Minecraft is not. Krock: do you mean this cheap copy of Minetest? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD0nHDb5_bE&t=400 appguru: But if you want some insights from developers which have ever modded MC (I haven't), then I suggest you go and talk to the Civtest developers. Myron2957392374: Okay appguru: I'm too lazy to make an in-depth comparison right now appguru: But think about: appguru: - Modding appguru: - Performance appguru: - Free vs Not-even-gratis MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add a missing article to the sign action message (#2651) 13190f7fd https://git.io/JfYwv (152020-04-29T19:11:21Z) Myron2957392374: appguru Do you play Minetest/ Minecraft? appguru: I mod Minetest and occasionally play it. I have never played Minecraft. Myron2957392374: Is it because it's not FOSS? appguru: Partly I'd say Lone_Wolf: I lose interest in my MC worlds soon after steel tools Myron2957392374: I think it's iron Lone_Wolf: As you can see I play MT a lot more :P Myron2957392374: What about modded Minecraft? Verticen: What do you do in MT to keep more interest than in MC? do you use mods that make it more challenging? Lone_Wolf: I'm more of a coder which is the main reason. Nodecore unmodded or MTG with a ton of extra mods is what I do when I play though Lone_Wolf: 'Nodecore unmodded' might change soon actually, a ton of mods have come out for it recently Krock: !mod nodecore MinetestBot: Krock: Nodecore Rabbits [nc_rabbits] by Lone_Wolf - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24057 - https://github.com/LoneWolfHT/nc_rabbits Lone_Wolf: Nodecore is a game Lone_Wolf: Link in a sec Lone_Wolf: https://content.minetest.net/packages/Warr1024/nodecore/ appguru: !game nodecore Lone_Wolf: Modded Minecraft scares me. And I haven't heard of any mods for it I'd be interested in sfan5: sounds like you haven't looked then, Minecraft has a huge amount of mods Lone_Wolf: Yeah I haven't felt the need to look yet lol. I'm mainly judging by the more popular ones Copenhagen_Bram1: Are there any mobs mods that work with realtest_mt5's spears? rajmahal: Amazing recovery on minetest forums...Celeron and whomever else. Its inspiring. Glorfindel: oh are they back up Glorfindel: yay deltanedas: why is 5.3.0 so slow to load media now, on my phone? deltanedas: got an apk from rubenwardys android arm64 build ~an hour sgo deltanedas: using 3 mods (UI, and two others i made which ran fine in 5.1.0 on fdroid) deltanedas: minetest game sfan5: there are known unsolved issues that manifest on arm64 android deltanedas: but it worked fine before, maybe its because fdroid only releases 32 bit builds? sfan5: it doesn't happen on 32-bit ARM yes adfeno: Hi, is it bad costume/etiquete for a server to disable /mods command? deltanedas: hmm ill try 32 bit then sfan5: adfeno: there's no community opinion on this but I'll just say yes sfan5: if your server is on the list it will show them mod names anyway sfan5: and there isn't really any reason to hide the *names* of the mods you are using adfeno: I see adfeno: Thanks deltanedas: yup, armeabi7a cut it down to ~20s deltanedas: but it still feels like it takes longer to load, any big media changes since 5.1? sfan5: not really no deltanedas: oh well, at least i can see the loading bar move every second now deltanedas: what do you guys think about a strong, server + username unique password generator GreenXenith: Ah, its for a game, so you dont need to care about previous states (and you are changing the opacity when not sneaking) oil_boi_: GreenXenith, Yeah, I'm happy it works, but I'm running out of steam due to the quarantine so I might have to take a break for a few days :( nephele: oil_boi, how do you figure the camera height is not what it claims though? oil_boi: I tested it serverside and clientside nephele: yes.. but with what? nephele: Would be interesting to know anyhow, I am not using the mtg models or anything, and i set a bit random height on join so would be interesting if that gives wrong results VanessaE: playeranim mod has gone missing from github/minetest-mods.... what happened? rubenwardy: Rui deleted it VanessaE: :( orbea: no forks? sturm1: could I get a recommendation on minetest game that would be suitable for a 5 year old - sturm1: eg. preferably not scary zombie noises that will give them nightmares :) GreenXenith: Rui seems to be very destructive when it comes to outdated things (forum posts .. mods ..) VanessaE: I guess I should upload it somewhere. VanessaE: however, I thought the rule with minetest-mods was ...well... not supposed to be deletable? freelikegnu: would the 5 year old like goblins? sturm1: freelikegnu - possibly! nephele: oil_boi, maybe you can use player.set_eye_offset(fp_vector, tp_vector) to correct it, assuming it is just an engine oversight? freelikegnu: they stay underground and most of the aggro ones are below -20 freelikegnu: you can of course mod it it taste freelikegnu: *to tase sturm1: freelikegnu: what game is that? freelikegnu: its a mod for MTG https://content.minetest.net/packages/FreeLikeGNU/goblins/ freelikegnu: but should work with any game that has default and mobs_redo sturm1: thanks! I'll take a look VanessaE: rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/playeranim rubenwardy: Rui still had admin on the repo, so was able to delete it VanessaE: this should be up-to-date, provided he hadn't made any commits in the past 2 or 3 days (the last time I ran my update-all script) VanessaE: rubenwardy: will you import that ^ back to minetest-mods, or should I post it on the forum as a "backup"? VanessaE: also, iirc deleting content can be grounds for a ban (ask sofar re: my mods), though that would be an overreaction in this case tf2ftw_: Hi nephele: oil_boi, fwiw, in my test the camera height matches 1.625 perfectly if set to that :/ * VanessaE: pokes rubenwardy rubenwardy: Ask sofar * VanessaE: redirects her poke to sofar :P nephele: oil_boi, i measured against https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest-gamemode-orion/raw/branch/master/mods/sparkdebug/textures/sparkdebug_measure_side.png with beeing adjecant to a block with that and setting my eye_height to 1.625 and look_vertical to 0, which puts my crosshair right about 64+16 (which would be 5/8th of the texture height matching .625) ANAND: 1.625 is the default eye height in MT ANAND: Just an FYI nephele: Yes it is nephele: but it isn't in my gamemode, so i set it explicitly for the test tf2ftw_: Is there a roadmap for the next version or is it all bug fixes? sofar: what where how why sofar: rubenwardy: VanessaE: when did that happen? VanessaE: within the last few days. sofar: I'm only missing one commit sofar: and you have it VanessaE: I ran my update-all script and it couldn't pull from that mod. last time I ran it a few days ago, it worked fine sofar: time I run it too, I guess sofar: shoudl really cronjob it :/ VanessaE: ditto. orbea: is it just me, or can players hop onto carts through walls? blaise: carts work now? blaise: they were broken af orbea: blaise: in which way were they broken? orbea: they work with some caveats now orbea: mainly the view going up/down inclines is bad orbea: i rather like how you can put carts in a endless circle with power rails and they will still be going after taking the server down, upgrading a bunch of mods and then restarting it cheapie: IIRC the carts mod in minetest_game was adapted from boost_cart or something, just with the mesecons capability ripped out. orbea: hmm, i wonder how that one compares with the mod in MTG now cheapie: I did add mesecons support back into the minetest_game one, so that takes care of the only major issue I had with it: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/mesecons_carts/ cheapie: (mesecons_carts doesn't replace the carts mod, it just adds extra rail types - keep carts installed) orbea: ah, cool, might try it later cheapie: There's also a digilines rail in there that lminus has been having way too much fun with :P jas_: hello blaise: hi jas_: how are things! jas_: bug: tnt.boom does not respect protection inside the node that it was exploded if radius is equal to 1 jas_: !title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re5RW9GX_Uo MinetestBot: jas_: more rocket jump :D - YouTube jas_: (regardless of explode_center flag) jas_: (regardless of ignore_protection flag) jas_: alright submitted bug report for what it's worth... *shudders* Zughy: jas_, oh my god, that's amazing. Is it some kind of mod or..? jas_: oh kewl u like it, let me zip up the mod jas_: hm forum sad jas_: where to put my 1k archive?! jas_: what is this internet for ants * jas_: heads to pastebin jas_: !title https://pastebin.com/pbbVZpFn MinetestBot: jas_: --COPYRIGHT MR JAMES S THE BEST!! wtfpl local function kb(player, hitter, tim - Pastebin.com jas_: there it is i think jas_: jk about the best part, i like to big myself up jas_: i am thinking about making it work on nodes. the rocket jump only shoots a node at your feet if you're close to it -- i was thinking of exploding any node like that jas_: otherwise it just explodes players jas_: the idea was originally for the knockback of players, but the rocket jump came naturally enuff heh jas_: anyway i use supersprint mod too, for sprint and sneakjumping jas_: !mod supersprint MinetestBot: jas_: SuperSprint! [supersprint] by jas - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=23578 - https://github.com/jastevenson303/supersprint jas_: that combined with the rocket jump is what gives me that height, i believe jas_: also max hp = 100 so i dont suicide too quick jas_: here's the godmode mod i use for that, and godmode ('godmode' priv): https://pastebin.com/gT2Gd3bD jas_: ^this regens hp after a cooldown jas_: i mean, it regens any player's HP, up to 100. any player with godmode priv is roughly invulnerable * jas_: wonders what it's like outside... Zughy: I asked because I've been working on a Quake mod jas_: hold on my jaw it's around here somewhere Zughy: and it ain't Quake without a rocket launcher WITH rocket jumps jas_: i absolutely love quake so much i played qtest in 95 and right now i need to play urban terror because minetest takes too much time Zughy: right now there is only the Railgun haha jas_: well try my supersprint mod i don't play minetest without it personally jas_: because it utilizes minetest sneakjump, which is a quirky physics bug Zughy: if you want to try it, I have it running on my server :eyes: jas_: which obviously reminds me of quake. but yeah i wish i could have quake physics inside minetest HAHA jas_: OH? jas_: yes what's it called? jas_: !server quake MinetestBot: jas_: [Quake] La FOSSa delle Papere | 185.242.180.117:30010 | Clients: 0/20, 0/0 | Version: 5.1.1 / quake | Ping: 20ms jas_: that one? Zughy: yup, wait I'm logging in Zughy: it's in beta ofc jas_: ok i was gonna step outside for a quick smoke actually but lemme log in now jas_: mine too jas_: !server jastest MinetestBot: jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/1 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 132ms jas_: be there soon but i'll be afk for first minute Zughy: oh sure jas_: Zughy: i have to pass a quiz jas_: what's the answer? :D Zughy: It's easy, I believe in you Zughy: 5 letters jas_: bug: enter isn't the same as clicking apply Zughy: that's on Minetest unfortunately jas_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8YY8XHgEkg jas_: no Zughy u can fix that jas_: it's a formspec element, something something close on enter jas_: !title MinetestBot: jas_: complex - YouTube jas_: i love ur server jas_: !server quake MinetestBot: jas_: [Quake] La FOSSa delle Papere | 185.242.180.117:30010 | Clients: 0/20, 0/2 | Version: 5.1.1 / quake | Ping: 27ms jas_: bbiab jas_: (can i idle on ur server?? if not kick me and i'll come back) Zughy: idle as much as you want :D jas_: kewl MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orbea -> 03minetest/minetest: cmake: Silence warnings. (#9750) 13a368e7e https://git.io/Jfm8S (152020-04-28T14:34:18Z) TORTUE: hi Andrey01: Hello, does anybody know when celeron55 will fix the forum issues? The bot attacks have not been stopped so far. Zughy: that's a wonderful question Andrey01: Why? tf2ftw: It's being DDOSed? tf2ftw: If thats the case, I have some connections that might be willing to offer DDOS protection rubenwardy: celeron55 believes it's not DDoS, but just more traffic and hardware issues Andrey01: I think it`s DDoS attacks as the members count is very dyna Andrey01: ... dynamic lately nephele: Unlikely.... Seems to me the server operator would have a preeeety good idea if it's a DDOS or not rschulman: Is anyone working on an electrical mod as a sort of "friendly competitor" to technic? Krock: !mod elepower MinetestBot: Krock: Elepower - Machines/Power/Fluids/Nuclear [elepower] by IcyDiamond - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20320 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory Krock: > unified inventory Krock: what nephele: rschulman, well, me, kinda nephele: not that i've ever played with technic, so dunno how much it is a competitor Krock: https://gitlab.icynet.eu/evert/elepower VanessaE: seeks to replace pipeworks too Krock: alternatively Krock: !mod tubelib MinetestBot: Krock: Tubelib SmartLine [smartline] by joe7575 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19608 - https://github.com/joe7575/smartline nephele: hmm, elepower seems interesting... MIT too... rschulman: nephele: Is your stuff public yet? rschulman: Thanks for the links, Krock! Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! nephele: rschulman, yeah, but it's not had a formal release, so don't expect it to work completely nephele: especially crafting recipes are a bit broken currently ;) rschulman: Oh, no worries, I was just curious. rubenwardy: I used part of elepower instead of pipeworks to make a fractional distillation column Zughy: can anyone explain me what's the deal with modified clients? I mean, if I join a server and that server has a public function inside a mod (for instance mymod.killall), can I launch it through my modified client? rubenwardy: because the pipes in pipeworks don't work rubenwardy: Zughy: mods are server-side only nephele: rschulman, git is here: https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest-gamemode-orion rubenwardy: a modified client cannot call those functions rubenwardy: but it can invoke callbacks VanessaE: rubenwardy: pull requests welcome :P rubenwardy: for example, it can submit formspecs or chat messages or dig nodes whenever rubenwardy: I've made some pull requests VanessaE: make more :) rubenwardy: for fluid dynamics, I'd rather use something simpler nephele: it's a gamemode though not a modpack, it used to be a modpack before but keeping compat with mtgs was quite annoying honestly rubenwardy: I don't think pipeworks even supports node_io rubenwardy: !mod node_io MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Node-IO API [node_io] WIP by auouymous - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20624 - https://github.com/auouymous/node_io rubenwardy: it's a super nice standard for automation inter-op rubenwardy: elepower supports that VanessaE: nice rubenwardy: ironically, mesecons, technic, and pipeworks don't rubenwardy: but it means that my fractional distillation column can work with _any_ node_io supporting mod nephele: never heard of node_io before heh freelikegnu: obligatory: https://xkcd.com/927/ rubenwardy: there's no existing standards though :/ nephele: rubenwardy, for what? taking items? freelikegnu: it has to start somewhere :D rubenwardy: I need to get around to finishing my pipeworks PR rubenwardy: !title https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/-/merge_requests/12 MinetestBot: rubenwardy: WIP: Add support for recipes with groups to autocrafter (!12) · Merge Requests · Vanessa Dannenberg / pipeworks · GitLab freelikegnu: will have to find a way for goblins to use this node-io....I think they would likes it MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix breath_bar scaling; delay breath_bar hiding by one second (#8271) 13a36c9c3 https://git.io/Jfm2Q (152020-04-28T17:30:57Z) nephele: I'm still somewhat confused what the point is of node_io rschulman: So is there a way to control mod loading order? Because trying to load the elepower modpack from the "browse online content" download is giving me a bunch of cross dependency errors within the modpack. nephele: elepower will already have done the correct order for you nephele: atleast it should have nephele: the graph of load order is based on depends.txt within monds, mods that depend on X will be loaded after X nephele: there is also optional depends, but it just means that if X doesn't exist it isn't fatal rschulman: Yeah, it doesn't seem to be doing that for me for some reason. nephele: Hmm, are you sure? I can load it fine on orion... i am not sure if it has declared /any/ deps nephele: ah nvm, it didn't load it rschulman: Yeah, my game loads with errors in the console and no nodes in craft guide. nephele: it seems to depend on somethign called fluid_tanks that elepower does not ship nephele: which in tun gives you the other errors IcyDiamond: you need fluid_lib rschulman: Yeah, I have fluid_lib enabled too... Krock: oh look, a triggered IcyDiamond IcyDiamond: ? nephele: Heh... i wanted to try on minimal but minimal hasa failing test nephele: dont think am on HEAD currently though rschulman: Ah, its because pipeworks needs screwdriver. Zughy: uhm, is there a way to check if the storage is empty? Not an entry, I mean the whole storage Zughy: of a mod ofc rschulman: Hm, no, screwdriver is in minetest base. nephele: Zughy, what do you mean by that? rschulman: (Gotta step away, I'll return to live-debugging in a bit) Zughy: nephele, if there are entries or not inside the storage nephele: I still have no clue what you mean rubenwardy: nephele: the point is to be able to make machines without explicitly depending on something like technic nephele: I'm making machines and I'm not depending on technic nephele: But i fail to understand what node_io would help with Zughy: minetest.get_mod_storage() <= this one. Where you can store strings and numbers. I'd like to check if it's empty IcyDiamond: nephele: elepower used it to standardize fluid transfer between nodes rubenwardy: your machines must rely on their own infrastructure then nephele: infrastructure of what? rubenwardy: node_io allows you to use any fluid pipe, and item tube, etc IcyDiamond: but it looks like that project was abandoned so i might revert back to doing everything in fluid_lib itself rubenwardy: the latter of which is already partially standardised to use `main` rubenwardy: IcyDiamond: noooo nephele: what do you need an api for to name inventory names? nephele: I already have mostly stable inventory names in my mods IcyDiamond: rubenwardy: ok nephele: and the allow_put and so options work fine? rubenwardy: nephele: fluids don't use inventory IcyDiamond: i thought the content installer gets dependenices as well rubenwardy: neither does power IcyDiamond: it doesnt? nephele: rubenwardy, they use whatever you code up rubenwardy: which is different per mod IcyDiamond: how would anyone installing elepower from the content browser know what deps it needs rubenwardy: node_io_can_take_liquid = true, rubenwardy: IcyDiamond: there's an issue for this nephele: rubenwardy, i certainly can't just use my power distribution code and distrbiute over random nodes without them exposing what they want rubenwardy: you can't if you want to support technic? nephele: what? rubenwardy: you can do your own thing, but then it won't talk well to other mod rubenwardy: that's literally what standards are for nephele: I've never used technic, i have no clue what it does IcyDiamond: idk i installed fresh minetest 5.2.0, installed elepower and fluid_lib and everything works rubenwardy: an equivalent to node_io should be documented really rubenwardy: in the engine nephele: for what? rubenwardy: it works well for fluids, I've not looked at the energy system IcyDiamond: for transfering information between nodes, nephele IcyDiamond: thats what node_io means nephele: where is the "spec" part of node_io? IcyDiamond: elepower still uses its own (broken) energy system IcyDiamond: xD rubenwardy: it's a markdown file nephele: and node_io doesn't claim to understand power IcyDiamond ? IcyDiamond: last update 2 years ago IcyDiamond: rip IcyDiamond: nephele: there were plans to add power it looks like nephele: even after reading the stuff there i still have no clue what i would be supposed to do, most of it just seems to be re-implementing stuff minetest already has nephele: Like... can_put_item or so? nephele: And it works on sides which atleast to my mod, makes no sense, my furnaces have an inventory to put items in, and one to take items out rubenwardy: node_io defines item definition methods for accepting liquids, items, and power nephele: but you could do that on whatever side you want nephele: rubenwardy, no it doesn't nephele: $ rg power API; 110: -- TODO: support power and signals rubenwardy: oh thought it did that too nephele: It also seems to have no way to indicate what inventory you want to put in or take out of or so IcyDiamond: elepower relies on its fluid transfer spec only nephele: for items atleast the api is worse for me than what mt already offers IcyDiamond: it doesnt require node_io as a dependency IcyDiamond: fluid_lib is elepower and melterns specific helper functions that implement node_io callbacks IcyDiamond: along with tanks and a transfer system rubenwardy: fluid_lib is the actual pipeworks rubenwardy: :) IcyDiamond: yeah, for fluids nephele: what are mili-buckets supposed to be? rubenwardy: it's a non-metric measurement of volume IcyDiamond: 1 bucket is 1000 millibuckets of fluid IcyDiamond: this was brought over from minecraft defacto standard IcyDiamond: xD rubenwardy: it's equivilant to a 1000 litres rubenwardy: if nodes are 1x1x1 m IcyDiamond: its a convenient way to transfer small amounts of fluid that dont necessarily fill a bucket item IcyDiamond: :P nephele: if nodes are 1x1x1 m then... using ccm seems like the easiet way to measure... IcyDiamond: it doesnt matter, its a game for petes sake nephele: Course it matters, i want units i can understand IcyDiamond: how is millibucket hard to understand nephele: What? freelikegnu: Are minetest computing steps measured in millitests? IcyDiamond: ok im done here, if anyone has any serious enquiries, feel free to mention me nephele: How should i know what that is in real unity? freelikegnu: If we have ice forming on the edge of a building roof, is that a testicle? Krock: it's decoration freelikegnu: true in my case too rubenwardy: Isn't a millibucket equivalent to a litre? (1000)†1/1000 rubenwardy: If a bucket is 1000 litres nephele: Which bucket holds 1000 liters? Krock: one that is quite large. also called tank appgurueu: https://www.google.com/search?q=1000l+bucket rubenwardy: One that can fill a metre cube, nephele Krock: or barrel. that holds up to a barrel of liquid appgurueu: 10x10x10m tank appgurueu: ah wait no lol appgurueu: far smaller nephele: rubenwardy, i certainly can't lift 1000Kg :P (assuming water) appgurueu: lava should be lighter nephele: If you just want to say "one node is in the bucket" then you would have to count the spill around it, which would make an even larger ammount that was evidently in the bucket... nephele: egh, whatever, i'll just use ccm myself and be happy... rubenwardy: Liquids in minetest change volume though appgurueu: I'm starting to wonder: How long can a PHP update possibly take? nephele: I made a liquid that duplicates itself and steamrolls over the land, neat, but certainly not enough to claim that liquids have an infinite volume in mt nephele: so i won't... i'd much rather make a consistent api using ccm rubenwardy: He's moving machines to docker, not updating PHP, appguru appgurueu: Ah, then the "updating PHP version in the hopes that the speedup will help" message is misleading rubenwardy: Huh? appgurueu: https://forum.minetest.net appgurueu: [maintenance]Down for maintenanceUpdating PHP version in the hopes that the speedup will help. -celeron55Come hang around on #minetest (logs) or maybe the unofficial discord. Lone_Wolf: Looks like some posts are missing, I also get this error when looking at my profile page (which still shows up) https://i.imgur.com/ncTDLLi.png rubenwardy: my topic I created two weeks ago doesn't exist: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=370878 Lone_Wolf: Actually it's not sorting posts by last post date anymore Lone_Wolf: It's sorting by author and ascending, I don't see a way to set it otherwise Lone_Wolf: * It's not sorting topics by last post date anymore Lone_Wolf: More errors https://pastebin.com/bEPRaR1s Krock: basically just two files need adjustments Krock: quantity of warnings does not matter Krock: last four are only follow-up issues caused by warnings above Angemon13: Tell TommyTreasure: You're the one who's hiding, coward. My identity is known. What is *your* real name? And I'm "hiding" behind CloudFlare due to DDoSes committed by your friends. You're a coward and a liar. If you can be identified, this will be discussed with your parents, your children, and/or your church-mates. appgurueu: Excuse me what the heck? appgurueu: Angemon31 how is that related to Minetest? Angemon13: aukejan.com Angemon13: That will go into more detail appgurueu: That's just another OldCoder site Lone_Wolf: They *are* Oldcoder appgurueu: I had that suspicion :P appgurueu: Is MinetestBot sophisticated enough to recognize links to OldCoder sites? nephele: wow.. Lone_Wolf: Could be controlled via DMs too rawr: MinetestBot unsuccessfully tried to quiet them with their very first message appgurueu: MinetestBot is really good appgurueu: Not as good as the Discord one though :P nephele: discord? the mpl villain? :) appgurueu: discordapp.com nephele: ah, that wierd electron client appgurueu: also works as webapp appgurueu: i always use the webapp TBH appgurueu: because I don't want Discord to examine my running processes Lone_Wolf: I don't think you can really compare the two bots, guess we're going offtopic though appgurueu: 1000l buckets have already been discussed here. We can't be more offtopic than that. Lone_Wolf: It's not too hard to get a bot to block someone who's so consistent in their speech appgurueu: Lone_Wolf: I don't think it does speech recognition. It just checks for links to OldCoder sites. Walker: like a blacklist ? nephele: appgurueu, but that was about minetest mod interopability :P Lone_Wolf: *consistent. Lone_Wolf: then Walker: "+r" ? Walker: readonly ? Fuchs: registered users only Walker: oh Walker: noone can join now ? appgurueu: only registered users can join now Walker: lol appgurueu: so OC can't just come back with another alt & another IP Lone_Wolf: I think they can, just have to DM a mod for 'shout'/voice appgurueu: they need to come back with a registered account appgurueu: or do what LW said appgurueu: got to go freelikegnu: oof poor forum... Walker: forum looks cool now xD Walker: temporarly ? Walker: ohh ... down again -.- Walker: "Come hang around on #minetest" Walker: hello ... i am Walker Walker: want someone to play with me ? Walker: xD jas_: hi walker i want to not play jas_: but it's nice to see you Walker: thx ^^ jas_: ye i love minetest, what are you up to? play on servers? locally? mod? Walker: no, it was only a reaction to the message on forum.minetest.net "Come hang around on #minetest" jas_: i wish minetest had a better domain or something :( so sad too see Walker: yes ... jas_: host jas_: maybe soon jas_: deserves THE BEST hehe jas_: but like i have resources. oh well Walker: maybe i switch to minetest.org Walker: it has less lag ... Walker: xD Walker: JUST A JOKE jas_: at least with git the directory is the repo or whatever Walker: CALM DOWN jas_: HAHAHAHA GreenXenith: Not funny, didn't laugh jas_: OH U rubenwardy: The website will be fixed soon™ GreenXenith: Its not fixed until it isnt PHP :] jas_: ye minetest is nice. i been modding, right now i am making a little boom stick jas_: it's on jastest if u wanna try it so far, it's given on join/respawn hahaha Walker: minetest is ( beside gzdoom and doom entierly ) THE BEST GAME EVER ! jas_: oh don't get me going!! i LOOOOVE zdoom and doom oh my god. but i am a quaker. doom2 was my first pc game i got it before the pc arrived jas_: but i am a quaker :( i love urban terror quake 3 mod right now jas_: and i use sneakjump tricks in minetest, i can't play minetest without it! jas_: here's a video... lemme find this spam folder jas_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8YY8XHgEkg jas_: here's an easy trick Walker: i play quake also ... but MUCH more gzdoom xD ... it has more maps ;) ( from the community ) jas_: i wanna make little courses to the top of large structure and a flag on top, winner is the one that gets the flag first jas_: i love the modding in doom jas_: i love the skill ceiling in quake jas_: the strafejumping, the movement jas_: minetest gives me a little of both tbh, but without the competition Walker: xD jas_: right now i'm like building a structure you have to find your way out of at spawn jas_: it feels like quake level making, in that it's all enclosed Walker: and minetest is more "family frendly" then doom Walker: and brutal doom xD jas_: my absolute dream is quake physics inside a minetest world, or something. yes that's how i found it, i didn't want my 2year old playing doom with me Walker: ^^ Calinou: this is what https://forloveofcats.itch.io/skyofsteel does jas_: haha, and minetest i got it out of debian repo b/c i thought it was a kids game. when i started it, especially once i connected two instances, i was hooked jas_: good stuff Calinou: but it's in early development jas_: that is very good indeed Calinou: I'm a Quake/Doom fan too :p jas_: but, i am particular to quake physics, i believe you know what i mean * jas_: goes off to play more urban terror Walker: on my channal i played a couple doom megawads Walker: and hexen Walker: and heretic Walker: ^^ Walker: but for now i lets play only minetest since a couple month Walker: ok ... forum still down ... but for me: time to go to bed Walker: bye~~ jas_: bb g'night Walker rajmahal: Is this thing on? Glorfindel: no Glorfindel: wait what's the thing rajmahal: Where is the party? Lone_Wolf: Everywhere if you wear party glasses rajmahal: Oh seriously, you? Lone_Wolf: ? rajmahal: Its like your everywhere. Lone_Wolf: Small world I guess, not enough room for me to fit in one place GreenXenith: When you have 3 major community platforms, you tend to find recurring community members rajmahal: Considering my crap internet, this is rather smooth. Lone_Wolf: Are you judging your internet by the forums or a dif site? Lone_Wolf: I judged by the former a few days ago and was mortified to find my ping was 6.54 minutes rajmahal: Just my assesment from ormal everyday use Lone_Wolf: Well, to be serious I use this: https://www.speedtest.net/ (result for me: https://i.imgur.com/fLXeuOK.png) GreenXenith: Hey, thats only a little better than my speeds :D GreenXenith: Though mine seems to be marginally worse today :) https://i.imgur.com/w0W7VX7.png rajmahal: 2mb/s that's my speedtest GreenXenith: Eesh, mine's not quite that bad rajmahal: I have a system for real world GPS to minetest world mapping. 1 meter = 1 block. Does anyone know of anyone else already working on mapping? Not the raster maps though and no vertical, just x and y.anual GPS points rajmahal: That was suppose to be manual GPS. nephele: hmm, isn't minetests maps a little too small for that? ... maaaybe nephele: i know something like that exists in minecraft, but not a 1:1 scale GreenXenith: I mean, now that there is a 1:1 Earth Minecraft map, something like that could exist at 1:1 in Minecraft nephele: Huh, there is, i thought there was only a downscaled version GreenXenith: >.> nephele: Anyway... i think the mt coordinate limit was 2^15 or so? something something integer limit nephele: but i can't remember which sfan5: !c -2**15-1, 2**15 MinetestBot: (-32769, 32768) sfan5: 16-bit signed integer rajmahal: 1:1 certainly doesn't allow much detail, but covers a rather large area on a map. 19 x 19 miles rajmahal: Buildings desiring detail get bumped up to sky realm,,where they get expanded build space. rajmahal: Its feasible to create a 3d world of a small town, with actual GPS. rajmahal: The Dallas Dai rajmahal: Can anyone explain how a "depends.text" file works. The rajmahal: in a mod. They baffle me. Peppy: Hi, depends.text list mod dependencies, one per line, for optional dependencies line ends with a ? mark Peppy: file should be "depends.txt" though Peppy: not .text ... rubenwardy: ~book getting start rubenwardy: !book getting start MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Getting Started - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/basics/getting_started.html cheapie: It's also deprecated, you should be using mod.conf instead. rubenwardy: rajmahal: ^ rubenwardy: that too rajmahal: "Text" was mistyped. Oh mod.conf interesting. That will probably clear up some up the prior weirdness. rajmahal: For the longest time I saw depends.txt as a sort of reference, but then I noticed it was more than that rajmahal: Like mt was reading it. It seemed odd the way one line had a series of dependencies. rajmahal: ...all crammed together, some with a ? cheapie: ^ someone is using Notepad :P NoInternet: Hello theenemystando[m: hello tf2ftw: hello orbea: rubenwardy: Maybe minetest should also have "eating" added to the list of damage types? e.g. registering a node with something like: on_use = minetest.item_eat(-5, "vessels:glass_bottle") VanessaE: small announcement: I've just started an "anarchy" server, VE-Chaos. daconcepts.com port 30010. unmoderated, limited area protection, PVP, some weapons, hostile mobs, mgv7, not a huge lot of mods (but enough to be interesting), interact by default, runs MT 5.1.1 VanessaE: it's a bit less hardcore than my skyblock server :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Add PostgreSQL authentication backend (#9756) 13e564bf8 https://git.io/Jfqt8 (152020-04-27T04:54:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix truncation warning for F1000_MIN, F1000_MAX 13515d38a https://git.io/Jfqtu (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: script: Put getGuiEngine() inside a client-only #ifdef 138a03097 https://git.io/Jfqtz (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: builtin: Correctly indicate failure in /spawnentity 13d3f50f2 https://git.io/Jfqtg (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: script: Fix add_entity returning unusable ref if object deleted in on… 13f6f6dd1 https://git.io/Jfqt2 (152020-04-27T04:58:34Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Script: Enforce type checks if not nil (#9748) 13be71e70 https://git.io/Jfqtw (152020-04-27T05:02:39Z) jas_: sweet MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Forbid object:attach(obj, ...) (#9762) 1391c4f7f https://git.io/Jfqcf (152020-04-27T09:27:27Z) * twoelk: doesn't agree with Wuzzy's LegacyModList banner on the minetest wiki Wuzzy: why not Wuzzy: Hand-editing the list of mod is extremely error-prone and ContentDB is superior to wiki in almost every aspect twoelk: for one the cdb has not and probably should not make any reference to historic mods twoelk: while hand edited lists can point to old mods that might be usefull to undesrtand current situations, developments or issues twoelk: especially the mods-for-learning list contains more than just a list of mods Wuzzy: yet none of the pages is laballed as a collection of historic mods twoelk: the lists should probably warn that they may be outdated but deleting them is not that helpfull twoelk: a lot of entries in the mobs list mention in the individual entries that the mods may be outdated, simply old or might be abondened Wuzzy: I'm effectively banned from JT2 now 🙁 Wuzzy: I lost the interact privilege twoelk: haven't connected there much lately Wuzzy: Without interact I can't even eat and I will soon starve Wuzzy: I messed around with the safe too often 😆 twoelk: actually haven't done much mt related during corona at all ... Wuzzy: Current JT2 server is a test server anyway, but its running for almost a month now and people have built cool buildings already twoelk: seems I had one of the few non healthcare, non foodselling etc. jobs that had a rising workload :/ twoelk: er - still have twoelk: but regarding the wiki or even both wikis, I simply don't like it if information, even if it is outdated is simply deleted. Wuzzy: What's worse than no information is incorrect or misleading information Wuzzy: I'm still strongly in favor of deleting all function pages on the Dev Wiki as redundant Wuzzy: too many modders seem to rely on it,which causes huge trouble twoelk: sorry I totally disagree on the statement - better nothing than something wrong- in regard of information twoelk: maybe some more -asofdate- statements should be included though Wuzzy: But the dev wiki is the reason for big confusion among modders. they rely on fake API calls which are simply not correct and then are surprised why stuff doesn'T work Wuzzy: The API documentation is in lua_api.txt. Period. Wuzzy: Hand-replicating API functions for each function in the wiki is and was a terrible idea. its not maintainable at all. Wuzzy: its really no surprise why the functions in dev wiki are so horribly outdated. there are simply too many pages you'd have to touch. nobody does that twoelk: if you say The only autorative API dokumentation is in lua_api.txt I totally agree with that twoelk: but even to fix old mods to current standard it may be usefull to know how it worked bevor Wuzzy: the functoins in dev wiki were just ripped from lua_api.txt at one point, then never updated. this is completely wrong Wuzzy: Well that argument is pointless as the function docs in wiki are not versioned Wuzzy: if you want to have old version docs, use git checkout Wuzzy: There are many better solutions to look up old version docs. The wiki is not one of them. twoelk: the fragmentation in myriads of subpages is something I have disliked from the start but never fought against Wuzzy: thats not really the problem with the wiki Wuzzy: ideally the Lua API docs are autogenerated twoelk: absolutely Wuzzy: then we would even have a fancy HTML doc that is even official twoelk: yep twoelk: so who does it? Wuzzy: nobody, as always Wuzzy: i would have deleted the function pages a long time ago, but i can't Wuzzy: and the wiki admins cannot be reached 🙁 * twoelk: sadly views the backlog of stuff he wanted to do on the wiki rubenwardy: <f44336twoelk> for one the cdb has not and probably should not make any reference to historic mods rubenwardy: CDB shows results from the forums. Not that that helps currently.... rubenwardy: [12:50:08] <558b2fWuzzy> then we would even have a fancy HTML doc that is even official rubenwardy: We do: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest rubenwardy: Needs to some issues to be fixed with search accuracy * twoelk: thinks the autoformated lua_api actually looks quite good tf2ftw: how do you get the players name? Seems that all lua api player calls require the player name but I'm not seeing any functions to get that.. rubenwardy: player:get_player_name() tf2ftw: * the current player rubenwardy: there is no current player tf2ftw: well then. thanks rubenwardy: Minetest mods are multiplayer by default, you're given `player` to get the info from :) tf2ftw: ok so something like this should work? minetest.get_player_name(player.name) ? tf2ftw: wait - sorry, nvm. I see player:get_player_name() tf2ftw: I haven't gotten past this error tf2ftw: attempt to index global 'player' (a nil value) tf2ftw: the code is simple: attempt to index global 'player' (a nil value) tf2ftw: local player = minetest.get_player_by_name(player:get_player_name() calcul0n_: tf2ftw, this might return nil if the player is not connected tf2ftw: calcul0n_, found how to do it. Thanks rubenwardy: get the name from the player, so you can get the player from the name? sfan5: minetest.get_player_by_name(minetest.get_player_by_name(player:get_player_name()):get_player_name())) sfan5: 18<rubenwardy18> We do: https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest sfan5: if this was one-page it would be perfect sfan5: I do not want to navigate through two menues to search for "node_drops" rubenwardy: being multiple pages is good for SEO rubenwardy: but you can have a mix in the same generation sfan5: surely an additional page with everything on one can be added twoelk: maybe a printable version? freelikegnu: is there a way to get the minetest api into the eclipse LDT? sfan5: "into"? freelikegnu: I mean for autocompleting, explainging methods, etc sfan5: check where it gets its completions from, and see if you can add custom ones ANAND: Maybe a plugin could parse the files in src/script/lua_api? ANAND: It's probably a little harder than that though rubenwardy: VSCode has autocompletion using GreenDimond's plugin ANAND: There are Class methods, etc. rubenwardy: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=GreenXenith.minetest-tools&ssr=false ANAND: Wait what? ANAND: Nice! rubenwardy: it's not very good, but it's better than nothing rubenwardy: I blame not very good on Lua though rubenwardy: there's also formspec code highlighting ANAND: This is very neat sfan5: oh that's very cool ANAND: I'm getting it right now sfan5: the engine should probably provide a machine-readable dump of all methods sfan5: to make such projects easier sfan5: s/projects/extensions/ rubenwardy: formspec code highlighting: https://rwdy.uk/mlmie.png ANAND: sfan5: Agreed freelikegnu: I rather avoid VSCode for personal rasons sfan5: there's an OSS version sfan5: you should be able to disable everything regarding auto-update, tracking and "experiments" (as MS calls them) freelikegnu: thanks but I'd rather not rely on MS for anything if I dont have to freelikegnu: I really have to move off github rubenwardy: you're not relying on them, you can change editor anytime rubenwardy: VSCodium is the OSS version of VSCode with MS stuff removed and a nice brand sfan5: I don't think that's a very good argument freelikegnu: I was just curious about some help with eclipse, not argue about choise of editors blaise: gitlab is a better platform anyway rubenwardy: I'm not arguing about choice of editors? rubenwardy: you can take the list that the VSCode plugin uses and use it in eclipse rubenwardy: freelikegnu: https://github.com/GreenXenith/minetest-tools/blob/master/snippets.json rubenwardy: Gitlab has a lot nicer features, the pipelines are great freelikegnu: blaise, yep probably gitlab and notabug are probably what I'll be pushing to rubenwardy: I've moved to Gitlab because of the CI rubenwardy: and also because GitHub is relying on MS blaise: which seems to constantly be going down on a minute to minute basis.. freelikegnu: thanks rubenwardy I'll try that snippet sfan5: I doubt eclipse understands it in that format, but at least you have something to work with rubenwardy: I brought up the plugin to say that it's possible, not to suggest switching rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: the generator script is in that repo, too freelikegnu: I was really hoping for a way to somehow use the lua_api.txt as it is updated rubenwardy: that's what the generator script does freelikegnu: cool rschulman: Is the forum really slow/non-responsive for anyone else? sfan5: not just you sfan5: it's been like this for weeks sfan5: unfortunately sfan5: (a solution is being worked on) freelikegnu: is there a patreon for hosting? I'm happy to contribute $1/mo sfan5: there isn't MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix detection of in-place path_locale when RUN_IN_PLACE=0 13ca8957f https://git.io/Jfqry (152020-04-27T15:50:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add STATIC_LOCALEDIR to BUILD_INFO and move it to version.cpp 1313a8ea2 https://git.io/JfqrS (152020-04-27T15:50:05Z) edwardloveall: Hello. Is there a way I can edit a page on the wiki? I looked around for a sign up or create account link and couldn't find one Krock: edwardloveall: PM your email to Calinou Krock: the forums would provide information about that... but well, they're kinda down edwardloveall: thanks Krack, I'll do that MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Adriankhl -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove /LTCG from when compiling with clang-cl (#9765) 13aef59f2 https://git.io/JfqMA (152020-04-27T18:44:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rewrite builtin item entity to use collision info 13b9377f2 https://git.io/JfqDI (152020-04-27T18:45:46Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Expose collision information to LuaEntity on_step 133475759 https://git.io/JfqDL (152020-04-27T18:45:46Z) tf2ftw: Hi tf2ftw: Is there a list of mod API hooks? I'm looking at lua_api.txt but md saved as a text file isn't the easiest documentation to navigate. Something like Ldoc would be nice http://stevedonovan.github.io/winapi/api.html sfan5: you mean a straight list of methods? GreenXenith: There is a ReadTheDocs version of the API http://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/ (not sure how up-to-date it is..) and there is a PR by Benrob0329 to convert the .txt to .md with better linking tf2ftw: the lua_api.txt is nice if you're looking for a walk-through but not great for quick look-ups. tf2ftw: GreenXenith, thanks for the link sfan5: it's not? GreenXenith: Once you know what youre looking for, lua_api.txt is more than enough GreenXenith: ctrl+f == win sfan5: lua_api.txt is a great quick reference, everything on a single page and you can just use your browsers search tf2ftw: I guess its not beginner friendly tf2ftw: at least not what I'm used to rschulman: From another beginner modder, tf2ftw is 100% correct. A long ass txt file is NOT the best place to point people who want to learn about minetest modding. GreenXenith: Thats why we point beginners to the modding book instead :) tf2ftw: GreenXenith, the modding book isn't that great. It's an appreciated start for sure but I'm a dev by trade and would rather see the API docs than a tutorial that feels like it doesn't paint the entire picture. GreenXenith: I know it isnt great tf2ftw: to be clear - im not trying to complain GreenXenith: But its "better" than a "long ass txt file" for some people tf2ftw: I appreciate all the info out htere sfan5: I have never read it, but I the modding book is aimed at beginners rschulman: What I wish I had found much earlier was the ReadTheDocs version of the API. sfan5: once you have all the concepts down you'll want to get comfortable with lua_api.txt (or a variant of it such as the gitlab thingy) oil_boi_: Oh my god sfan5, what if we had a modding book aimed at intermediate and advanced modders rschulman: IMO it should replace the txt file. GreenXenith: IMO #9564 and some more love to the documentation is the best solution ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9564 -- WIP: Convert Docs To Markdown, Improve Navigation and Linking by benrob0329 sfan5: oil_boi_: do I hear a volunteer writer oil_boi_: sfan5, Yes!! That sounds like an extremely fun project sfan5: I do wonder which stuff falls into "intermediate and advanced" though rschulman: And yeah, the modding book is definitely a great resource. GreenXenith: Yeah, intermediate/advanced is relative, too GreenXenith: The API documentation would be fine if it was consistent and people weren't so fussy about using .md for it oil_boi_: Anything is relative, doing set_node is advanced to anyone that's never programmed before, a book that shows multiple examples on how to utilize functions with other functions, methods with other methods that blend them together would probably make mods in minetest go from cool, to insane GreenXenith: A majority of mods haven't even reached the "cool" stage yet :) oil_boi_: :L I don't want to admit that's right but you are right :( tf2ftw: I've always felt there are only 2 difficulty categories: "hello world" and everything else. There is a hello world version of everything - basically how to get started. Everything else should be up to the dev to dive into rschulman: Yeah, I'm sorry, what on earth is the deal with the .md hate? rschulman: Something about windows not being able to open it? sfan5: a .txt file is easier to work with GreenXenith: Is it, though? sfan5: however that shouldn't be much of a concern since the install scripts can rename the file sfan5: the ability to link to individual lines is not something I'd like to lose though GreenXenith: If you read the PR discussion, you'd see that ability is not lost. rschulman: How, exactly? GreenXenith: Markdown linking is not limited to headers tf2ftw: i take md over txt all day oil_boi_: sfan5, I have an insane idea: when 5.3.0 is released, I do a video series on every single thing documented in the lua_api.txt :P tf2ftw: at least there is some type of format/standardization (for the most part) GreenXenith: Actually, I take that back. Linking is still limited to headers, but placing headers is obviously not limited. sfan5: GreenXenith: section links is not quite the same sfan5: oil_boi_: that sounds like it'd take .... forever sfan5: for example https://github.com/benrob0329/minetest/blob/md_api/doc/lua_api.md I can't link to exactly the line with "get_look_yaw()" here oil_boi_: sfan5, Yeah I'm gonna scrap that idea after unlocking my scroll wheel and flinging it, only to have it still take 25 seconds to scroll down the entire doc :< :< :< GreenXenith: Id do it rubenwardy: the modding book increases in complexity and does cover advanced concepts like LVMs, but yes - it's a guide and not a reference GreenXenith: Someone made a video that covers every single Blender shader node GreenXenith: I could totally do the same thing but for the Minetest api GreenXenith: Its only 8000 lines jas_: oh my gaahhhhd GreenXenith: Euf, I just scanned through Benrob's .md API ... I prefer how the .txt looks :I rubenwardy: oil_boi_: the book is aimed at beginner and intermediate modders. What would an advanced one even contain? GreenXenith: Markdown really bloats everything up oil_boi_: multiple ways to show how to pass through data into other api calls rubenwardy: what does that mean? rubenwardy: like contexts? oil_boi_: One second GreenXenith: That sounds like a Lua thing GreenXenith: And a not very advanced thing, at that >u> GreenXenith: Really, advanced modders shouldn't need a guidebook rubenwardy: the philosophy of the modding book is to be a collection of chapters which can be read individually, but together cover the core parts of the API rubenwardy: yeah, once you get to that level you should be reading a reference rubenwardy: It aids the goal of "doing 'hello world' and then diving into anything else". It's largely inspired by ReadTheDocs and the game programming patterns book GreenXenith: I started modding before the modding book even existed .. so I don't think I've ever actually used it as a reference :] rubenwardy: as did I :D rubenwardy: I've seen Jeija use it though, that was cool oil_boi_: Oh, I just realized that if there is no creativity then no matter what you show someone they will emulate what you showed them oil_boi_: Also rubenwardy I've used your book, it is helpful oil_boi_: Also I've discovered something extremely unfortunate, it seems the player look height is 1.625 when in reality the camera is at approximately 1.485 GreenXenith: I just made a one-liner to read the lua_api.txt at ~750wpm ... so you could read the entire thing in 1.5 hours nephele: oil_boi_, based on what? @camer height oil_boi_: nephele, your actual camera, using raycasting to override engine raycasting selection oil_boi_: nephele, https://youtu.be/0nbz9Bq_H6U discovered while doing this poop oil_boi_: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi_: Crafter - Gravity Gun - YouTube oil_boi_: I have a reasonable question: How to hide a player's nametag? GreenXenith: oil_boi_: set_nametag_attributes with transparent colorstring oil_boi_: Omazing, thank u oil_boi_: No seriously thanks oil_boi_: GreenXenith, you've made the world a better place yo https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/commit/c041d642eb08102c9256ebe40905613a5444bdd7 GreenXenith: Make sure you save the previous state and restore it when not sneaking oil_boi_: GreenXenith, it's done automatically GreenXenith: (x) doubt nephele: if you can freeze the state the players are in you could also make severall screenshots from different positions, and then catch up on player movement or so rubenwardy: Mostly fixed maps appguru: TBH one should just record actions to be able to make screenshots later on when replaying rubenwardy: Requires intervention rubenwardy: Less fun rubenwardy: Having a system to take screenshots and then rate the interesting-ness of them is a cool problem rubenwardy: But can end up very computer-visiony nephele: stir the pile of data till it starts loooking right ;) appguru: data science in a nutshell appguru: nephele: are you https://github.com/nephele ? nephele: no nephele: I am not on github tf2ftw: majochup, apologies tf2ftw: how does the gold key work? Can I lock a regular chest? freelikegnu: howdy all Copenhagen_Bram: hai cheapie: Gotta love it when functions don't do what the docs say they do... cheapie: The docs state that minetest.forceload_free_block() "stops forceloading the position" cheapie: But... nope, it just decrements the reference count (that minetest.forceload_block() had been incrementing) and then only actually does what it says *if* the reference count becomes zero. Grr. * cheapie: just had to manually free a bunch of stuff since a mod had been using it the way it says it's supposed to work, and as a result wound up with hundreds of mapblocks forceloaded that shouldn't have been, some of them tens of millions of times over. theenemystando[m: is there a way to get the name of the game for the current world? theenemystando[m: i'm new to minetest's API, apologies if it's an obvious problem sfan5: there is certainly no obvious way theenemystando[m: how would mods implement cross-game compatibility then? theenemystando[m: or is it not implemented yet? sfan5: check if an item, node or API specific to a game exists theenemystando[m: that sounds unassuring - what if a game is just a really close fork of the original? theenemystando[m: can't expect a mod to check everything then... sfan5: no, why would it? sfan5: if the fork is close enough for the mod's purpose, existing support code will work fine theenemystando[m: guess so. I'm not writing a cross-game compt mod though so it'll be fine. jas_: it feels to me like 'game' is a collection of mods, and if a server adds a single mod to worldmods/ directory then is that `game` still `game`? it's an interesting question i'd never considered nor heard asked -- but it made me think of minetest server list which does show the game name nephele: theenemystando[m, checking for globals checking for node availability is unfortunately the only way currently nephele: there is no get current gamename or anything nephele: cheapie, oof, that sounds really annoying... i was planning to use that call soon, but just forceload while something is going on... guess i'll have to do something more complicated sfan5: annoying? sfan5: "forceloading honors the reference count" isn't a bug, it's a feature nephele: sfan5, if it doesn't match the doc it is definetely a bug nephele: either in the code or the doc nephele: For my usecase reference counting is more a detriment if anythign, adding it ontop of an api is easy... but reversing it is hard :) sfan5: the documentation should explain the reference counting, yes sfan5: however what is your situation you have where reference counting is a hindrance? nephele: Well, i have mostly mechanics, i would likely forceload each block in a net from a central position, if it's a noop on calls after that i can just do that, if its not a noop i need to do carefull locking to not lock them severall times sfan5: hm sfan5: if it was possible to attach a string key to a forceload, your situation would be easier sfan5: but that means more overhead for the engine theodixon: hi Krock: hi theodixon: To help with the popularity issue of minetest, I have promoted it on my website. https://prospective-technology.co.uk/game_reviews/minetest/ theodixon: The website is not fully finished. When it is i hope it gets popular. Minetest was the first article I wrote on it nephele: sfan5, yeah, or just one global forceload function that doesn't do counting Krock: nephele: that sucks in terms of mod-interaction tf2ftw: why is it so much easier to find silver than steel?? Where should I be looking for steel? Krock: there's no steel ore Krock: you need iron Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/mapgen.lua#L710 Krock: small clusters can be found from -255 to -128 theodixon: i think like bronze is made from copper and tin, steel should be made from iron and coal theodixon: because iron +carbon = steel Krock: large clusters, but more distributed can be found flow -256 Krock: theodixon: in the furnace that works just fine. you burn iron with coal to get steel Krock: also, this was already discussed a few times. check out the MTG issues on GitHub theodixon: oh ok theodixon: maybe its a mod i can make, with more alloys Krock: see also: Krock: !mod technic MinetestBot: Krock: Technic [technic] by RealBadAngel - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2538 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic theodixon: forgot about that tf2ftw: thanks for the info on the steel tf2ftw: are there any "sea level" indicators? nephele: <0 if you mean mtg jas_: some ambience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvTd-MY64s0 jas_: !server jastest MinetestBot: jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/1 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 133ms oil_boi: texmex, do you think I should add snow blocks? texmex: oil_boi: Yes, but what mechanism do they bring? oil_boi: Spleefing texmex: Sure. oil_boi: Or snowmen? oil_boi: Or even ice cubes :T texmex: Love the way you focus on core mechanisms though, rather than lighter biome-related functionality… texmex: It’s easy to get lost in biomes, in my experience oil_boi: Thanks texmex, the only thing I've gotten lost in so far is how to tell https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4357 not to hurt the player if they fell into some water oil_boi: I don't like having biomes do specific functions besides creating certain nodes or it quickly becomes a mess :L oil_boi: It doesn't look like it's possible because returning true or false in register_on_player_hpchange doesn't do anything and resetting the hp on one server step after can bring up the death screen with full health oil_boi: Also even return({modifier=false,hp_change=0}) is non functional, I wish this explained how to tell the engine the new damage sfan5: oil_boi: http://sprunge.us/c7Mye8?lua oil_boi: Thanks sfan5 nephele: Is there any way to specify /how/ a specific biome is supposed to look in regards to elevation and stuff oil_boi: I'll have to make a note on the explanation style that certain api references like that use nephele: like... plains should have relative low elevation across the board, increasing one decreasing one block per 20-30 blocks or so at most sfan5: I don't believe the mapgen offers this flexibility, several noises decide the terrain and biomes decide what nodes to place nephele: .-. nephele: Guess i'll write my mapgen in lua then, without that it's really unusable for me sfan5: this seems very fundamental so I have a hard time believing that Minetest can't do this oil_boi: nephele, you could set the biome to air and then have a custom lua gen in place worse comes to worse but it'll look like there's chunk errors slightly sfan5: or set it to some special filler node and then post-process the terrain in on_generated nephele: sfan5, well, i have found nothing in the lua docs for biomes that suggest i could tie biomes to features nephele: I have seen some mapgen already that would look fine as a plain, if it actually did generate blocks for my plains biome there nephele: currently i just get it randomly /assuming/ the height is correct... but really absolute height too seems like a terrible way to specify terrain, it always seems to take all or nothing sfan5: nephele: sure but it might be possible to control this indirectly by placing plains only where the elevation is smooth oil_boi: Ooooo, that's a great idea sfan5, you could use a node as a "grass" layer with the rest set to 0 and then do lua mapgen using the node as a noise reference point and apply amplification to it to create a mountainous region!!! nephele: And how would i acomplish that? the biome definition let me tie in only in heat, humidity and absolute heights sfan5: I'm not saying it is possible, just speculating calcul0n_: biome defs have a y_min/max and min/max_poq params, i guess they are done for that calcul0n_: you could register different biomes for different levels calcul0n_: *min/max_pos nephele: sfan5, ah okay nephele: Well, I would like to be able to specify a median size, with maximum and minimum absolute sizes aswell for biomes nephele: In any case, minetests insistence that sea level is ==0 is really wierd imo sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen/mapgen_v7.cpp#L304-L318 nephele: See level should be variable too somewhat, or tinier sees higher or so sfan5: well as evident here, terrain is always the same and biomes just control the nodes nephele: Yes, i know nephele: i don't like that, it's not what i would want my biomes to /mean/ :P calcul0n_: note that a mapgen in lua would probably be terribly slow sfan5: I think nephele is willing to accept that in exchange for being able to do biomes "properly" calcul0n_: yep, i just mean be prepared to suffer :p rschulman: Am I right in assuming that once a chunk is generated, there's no way to gen new ores (after adding moreores) in that chunk? FreeFull: That does sound right sfan5: "no way" isn't correct, but it's certainly not easy Krock: rschulman: use VManip. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3755-L3757 Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4764-L4771 sfan5: and unless you want double the ores you should turn existing ores back to stone before calling the method Krock suggested rschulman: Oh, I meant from within the game. sfan5: yeah there isn't, you'll need a mod (and not only need but also need to program) rschulman: Ok cool, that's what I figured. Thanks. nephele: calcul0n_, no it wouldn't oil_boi: sfan5, I'm sorry to change the topic but the latest commit that fixed bones well oil_boi: https://i.imgur.com/anHyluu.png this is third person in a fresh install of minetest with a few seconds old git clone of minetest gmae oil_boi: game* oil_boi: I just git fetched and recompiled minetest engine and I was messing around, I went into 3rd person on my game, and I was like, oh no, I broke something, but the same thing happens in MTG sfan5: huh which commit? oil_boi: Oh, I thought the bone fixes were pushed, that uhhhhh, makes me even more confused oil_boi: sfan5, I cleared the cache and it's all better?? What the nephele: you should start making wild acusations in confusion :3 oil_boi: nephele, YOU DID THIS oil_boi: There nephele: I am honored, beyond honored, to be important enough to be a probably cause for compile errors on your machine oil_boi: But in all seriousness this is why I get super nervous when I find stuff like this, I still remember when entities would sometimes keep old functions stored in their metadata even though you completely redefined them and cleared their serialize and deserialize functions completely, that was a very long time ago oil_boi: Thank you nephele for being such a kind and caring glitch gremlin nephele: That's a new one nephele: Hmm... I'll add "re-implement mapgen in lua" to my todo list... right after "make a new crafting api" oil_boi: oh yeah, I didn't even bother bug reporting it because after 1-2 server restarts in singleplayer at least it would fix itself, but it was fixed around 2014 or so but good lord it was annoying oil_boi: nephele, https://github.com/paramat/lvm_example nephele: ? texmex: oil_boi: I wonder, since you’ve added Aether-like features, are you keen on some other MC mods that feel like they should’ve been in vanilla? Related to adding biomes, I’m interested in Tough As Nails functionality myself, as it makes biomes really behave different. oil_boi: texmex, I'm watching a video on it right now and taking notes texmex: Awesome 👏 texmex: This video is the best one I’ve found for explaining its mechanics. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kgNWUWjpKwk texmex: Sorry, I think I meant this one https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5SjTtFcYMuU oil_boi: texmex, in that last one you sent, he has made an EXTREMELY good point, we should have modding teams oil_boi: Err, wasn't really a point, he just mentioned modding teams oil_boi: Before I even finish watching all 3 of these videos, time to add ice orbea: If a mod calls 'set_hp(-1, "foo")' then 'reason.type' for 'minetest.register_on_player_hpchange()' should be "foo" and not "set_hp", right? texmex: oil_boi: Agreed. It was touched upon in this thread: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=371343 oil_boi: Linuxdirk: Minetest development is super slow and the devs are uber scared of changes so it is just the easiest and simplest way to code things you need by yourself. texmex: But the idea should be expanded upon and tried. From what I can tell it was quite common in the MC community. oil_boi: >if you can make the thing run as fast as it would in the engine in LUA then there is no need to add it into the engine because 97% of anyone will not agree that it should be added into the engine anyways texmex: More like this post, specifically https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=371343#p371343 orbea: oh, im doing it wrong now that I look at other examples... oil_boi: texmex, your idea is good, I looked over that thread and was inspired by your post before adding https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/new_functions/init.lua orbea: Now: 2020-04-26 09:49:56: ERROR[Server]: Bad type given! *sigh* oil_boi: Touch based damage, damage inside node, suffocation inside regular drawtype nodes, all based in lua, all extremely fast orbea: how do you give it a custom damage type? oil_boi: orbea, can I see your code? texmex: oil_boi: Yeah, especially when you’ve client-side mod at your disposal \o/ oil_boi: texmex, Oh my man, if I added that into clientside, I think I'd hover above my chair and do a flip in excitement orbea: oil_boi: not my code, but I am trying to modify hunger_ng on this line: https://gitlab.com/4w/hunger_ng/-/blob/master/system/hunger_functions.lua#L187 orbea: it now has: player:set_hp(new_health, { type = reason }) oil_boi: Clientside api basically creates the possibility to go from singlethreaded to threads = (however many players are in the game) + server thread orbea: both hunger_ng and 3d_armor report the type correctly as "starving", maybe the error is bogus? oil_boi: orbea, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4363 texmex: oil_boi: Yes, it's quite exciting and I think you're doing the right thing by starting using it right away even before server-sent csm is possible. oil_boi: orbea, then https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5869 You must give reason a custom string to work with it orbea: oil_boi: i have read it many times, maybe I dont understand what it means? I undestood that if it gives a reason as indicated it should use that instead? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5869 oil_boi: so set_hp(10, "you_are_cool") or set_hp(-10, "you_dun_goofed") orbea: i did that at first and it just reports set_hp then orbea: (in 3d_armor) oil_boi: orbea, Oh man, I dunno then, you might have to PM Linuxdirk on the forum oil_boi: texmex, once the server does CSM automatically all of my fears of people using CSM to hack like crazy in the Crafter, or any game, will be completely relieved!! texmex: Build now, worry never :) oil_boi: That's very true orbea: oil_boi: not sure its specific for hunger_ng, this is just what I was trying it with. See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/server/player_sao.h#L252 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/lua_api/l_object.cpp#L242 orbea: it seems the code assumes custom reasons are not possible? orbea: even though the docs indicate it is? orbea: and despite the error message it continues to use the custom type... oil_boi: orbea, I think you need a moderator or engine developer to help you at this point because I've never tried what you're trying so I don't know hot to resolve it oil_boi: !mod MinetestBot: oil_boi: Sound Reactions 1.0 [soundreaction] by Glory! - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13185 oil_boi: Oh.. orbea: ah, thanks for trying anyways :) rubenwardy: orbea: I wrote that code, you can provide custom reasons but the type must be "custom" rubenwardy: Well, or an existing valid type orbea: rubenwardy: so how would I determine between two different custom types, say "foo" and "bar"? orbea: doesn't work? player:set_hp(new_health, { type = "custom" } oil_boi: texmex, oh my god the models for entities and players are randomly not loading in, I'm about to throw this motherboard in the garbage rubenwardy: { type = "custom", some_other_field = "foo" } rubenwardy: perhaps `type` should allow arbitrary types that start with `_` or something like that orbea: even with type = "custom" it still prints an error orbea: also dont see where it checks "custom" in the code rubenwardy: hmmm rubenwardy: try not specifying the type? rubenwardy: this is broken rubenwardy: oh, looks like I made up the custom type rubenwardy: it's not documented rubenwardy: the `set_hp` type should probably be used rubenwardy: set_hp`: A mod or the engine called `set_hp` without giving a type - use this for custom damage types. orbea: adding { hunger = reason } works, I guess I can do that orbea: i dont think disabled armor damage for "set_hp" is a good idea, that would break armor damage from tnt and probably other things I think orbea: *disabling rubenwardy: armor doesn't make sense with set_hp rubenwardy: armor is strictly a tool caps thing rubenwardy: so you should use punch rubenwardy: you can specfiy a nil puncher, you use the player as the puncher rubenwardy: or an entity rubenwardy: actually, citation needed rubenwardy: yes, confirmed orbea: fwiw 3d_armor handles armor damage here https://github.com/mt-mods/3d_armor/blob/master/3d_armor/init.lua#L403 orbea: it should also be damaged by things like falling or lava rubenwardy: oh right, I misunderstood what you meant by armor damage rubenwardy: I see the problem - you don't want hunger to affect armor orbea: so my idea was to define what types it should not be damaged by, in my use case that mostly means drowning, eating things that damages the player and from starving oil_boi: sfan5, I found the bug: If I turn shaders off no models load?? orbea: drowing is a defined type so that was easy orbea: *drowning oil_boi: sfan5, this has to be a bug with manjaro or arch MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix mapgen settings in minetest.conf being ignored (#9737) 13eca6ee9 https://git.io/Jftd5 (152020-04-26T17:32:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04theviper121 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix UpdateBonePosition() breaking animations (#9577) 13e1fc72c https://git.io/Jftdd (152020-04-26T17:32:04Z) sfan5: oil_boi: works for me here * Lone_Wolf: claps rubenwardy: works her for me too (Manjaro) rubenwardy: I don't turn shaders off though oil_boi: rubenwardy, sfan5 https://youtu.be/27-JEmC3FDQ This is something oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: What even is this bug - YouTube sfan5: flat clouds is a new feature sfan5: or rather varying cloud "densities" Krock: oil_boi: your menu clouds are really weird oil_boi: sfan5, oh okay, I'm more concerned about the vertices outlines showing up on everything around 5:36 sfan5: either way here's an existing bug report https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072 Krock: #9072 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072 -- Faces show as if in wireframe mode Krock: these ninjas again oil_boi: So then the models not showing up at all is the new bug then? sfan5: yea looks like it sfan5: so to confirm the wireframe bug happens with antialias x2 regardless of whether shaders are enabled? oil_boi: shaders don't matter, x2 worse, x4 is slightly less worse, if formspec that's translucent in front it's even worse oil_boi: if shaders on, entity and player model loads, shaders off, entity and player model doesn't load MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unused lookup table from noise.cpp 1368f45fc https://git.io/JftFB (152020-04-26T17:52:09Z) sfan5: entities not loading is a new bug, possibly related to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9374 sfan5: would be good to know if it works with a build before Feb 16 oil_boi: sfan5, how to get build before feb 16 Krock: reset your shaders sfan5: https://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/ there's one from 2020-02-10 sfan5: if you want to compile from source you can just use git to reset to any commit you want Krock: (nvm @ shaders) Krock: might be related to the new use_texture_alpha distinction? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9374/files#diff-90993ca3bb550ffc1c77a1578f3545d3R591 sfan5: that was there before oil_boi: sfan5, tested in wine, the problem still happens * Krock: opens his eyes sfan5: oil_boi: hm good to know nephele: Krock, your eyes were closed all this time? oil_boi: Damn I hate opening these huge problems rschulman: How would folks go about creating a lua node that prevents mobs (say from mobs_redo) from passing above it or coming w/in a certain number of blocks of it? Is there a way to influence `minetest.find_path`? sfan5: if this is broken with 5.1, 5.0, ... too then it must really be due to some change in Mesa/AMD's code Krock: how about a 0.4.x build? if it happens there it's likely a driver issue oil_boi: sfan5, LETS FIND OUT sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/5.1.1/minetest-5.1.1-win64.zip sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/5.0.1/minetest-5.0.1-win64.zip sfan5: ^ for your convenience orbea: oil_boi: any chance you tried the mesa git master? Krock: rschulman: only manual influence by changing the code sfan5: rschulman: there are some hacks possible e.g. overwriting minetest.find_path from a mod, but such a thing should really be implemented in mobs_redo itself oil_boi: 5.1 wine doesn't render player either way, same with 5.0 oil_boi: orbea, let's give it a try cause I'm about to throw this RX580 in the toilet rschulman: Ok, makes sense, thanks! orbea: i have amd too and I find its best to follow the git for libdrm/mesa and the most recent llvm stable release orbea: if all else fails apitrace might help orbea: (would help track down the bad GL calls) Lone_Wolf: IIRC if you disable mipmap the entity missing bug no longer occurs oil_boi: Lone_Wolf, the mipmapping was disabled in all tests Lone_Wolf: Or something else was up. Been a while since I had that problem oil_boi: I had this problem on windows and I thought it was just me being a dumb with the visualstudio stuff sfan5: wait wait, the clouds turned wireframe-y on windows too? Lone_Wolf: OH. I fixed the bug by removing the directional_lighting PR from my client oil_boi: sfan5, yeah sfan5: oh no Lone_Wolf: I could pop over to Windows and test for the wireframes if wanted oil_boi: I cannot get into the windows 10 install because the new windows update completely killed the bootloader sfan5: if this was a bug in just Mesa it would be somewhat okay to fix/diagnose sfan5: but on Windows the situation is entirely different (unless AMD ships Mesa as OpenGL implementation there?) orbea: might indicate that minetest is doing something wrong and it just happens to work on some drivers Lone_Wolf: Ping me if you need some testing orbea: or maybe they just have the same bug by chance (the video drivers) oil_boi: One second, you have to remember that the drivers on windows, if shipped with the same implementation of opengl could be using the stable branch, I'm compiling the git version of mesa AMD drivers right now to check Lone_Wolf: Lemme know if you succeed. I couldn't figure out how to get the custom-compiled mesa to override my current one oil_boi: AMD couldn't get their rx5800XT running right for months I don't doubt they couldn't figure out how to do OpenGL oil_boi: sfan5, no need to worry, you and orbea's assumptions were correct and it was the shit AMD drivers sfan5: so it's fixed in Mesa master? oil_boi: On Mesa 20.1.0-devel (git-bf3c9d2770) latest dev working, with wine 5.0 is working, with wine 5.1 is working (shaders on and off for all 3) oil_boi: But, what this means is, anyone who has AMD GPUs and is on windows or linux with the stable OpenGL implementation is going to have this bug and it's not anyone's fault but AMD oil_boi: I would make a forum sticky about this for the time being :T oil_boi: I can't test this on W10 with unstable OpenGL implementation because 1, I don't work at AMD and 2, I don't want W10 to wipe my grub again oil_boi_: sfan5, I'm sorry to keep piling stuff up but, it seems like AA 2 and 4 are the only one's that do anything bad is because they're the only ones doing anything https://imgur.com/a/s5E24Cv sfan5: useful to know oil_boi_: Alright I'm gonna stop bug reporting because I'm being an ultra downer rn sfan5: so in conclusion: AMD recently broke anti aliasing oil_boi_: When doesn't AMD break literally anything sfan5: their CPUs are pretty good oil_boi_: Yes, yes they are, but their GPUs get the big oof from me oil_boi_: I have a full AMD system so it's like heaven and hell wrapped into one tf2ftw: speaking of specs, what type of cpu/ram are needed to host ~100 users? Lone_Wolf: speaking of 100 users how are you planning to get that many players? :thinkeyes: tf2ftw: ha yeah oil_boi_: tf2ftw, you're gonna need a singlecore that does 7GHZ tf2ftw: I live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids ;) Maybe my son can make it go viral at school sfan5: before you run out of RAM the poor cpu utilization of Minetest will bring you down sfan5: so grab the CPU with the best single-core performance and hope for the best tf2ftw: single core at 7ghz? is MT not multithreaded? oil_boi_: tf2ftw, oh man, I'm sorry to pull that bandaid off for you sfan5: to some extent sfan5: but everything that (really) matters happens in the server loop in a single thread tf2ftw: well.. hm sfan5: of course how responsive this is also depends on what the mods do tf2ftw: ok true. im not complaining. tf2ftw: good to know though. oil_boi_: one day we will have multiple thread capabilities! I hope! I am just too dumb to put ideas into code through C++ Krock: GHz is not the only factor. If the RAM latency were lower and instructions took less cycles you'd get the same performance for lower clock rates tf2ftw: Well for now, MT is perfect for my 5yo sold and me to play with a few of his friends :) I was just wondering what the hit was per player Krock: basically the goals of RISC. only a few instructions, but those must be somewhat fast tf2ftw: * son oil_boi_: the only way I can see doing this in pure LUA is https://www.lua.org/pil/9.4.html and .after statements but they will have to funnel back into a single thread right now tf2ftw: Go has very nice thread management but I digress oil_boi_: tf2ftw, if you have a multicore you can set the emerge_threads in the conf and it will generate the map much faster which is probably what you're more worried about with default MTG sfan5: the best case for threading optimization I see is running object's on_step outside the server loop sfan5: but you can't "just" put that on another thread oil_boi_: sfan5, oo that's a good idea :T I mean you could but it wouldn't communicate properly with the terrain and you'd have to have the objects work with the server instead of the server work with the objects Krock: it would need an entire map modification pipeline oil_boi_: Exactly oil_boi_: The objects would have to work from 1 memory pool and calculate using that sfan5: the most likely way I can see this working is that mods can submit work to run in the background sfan5: those functions then run in a different Lua environment with limited/low-priority/read-only(?) access to the map and stuff oil_boi_: That would make memory management so ultra extremely efficient, the closest thing we have now is having objects offload data to the closest player's client using modchannels and calculate using that essentially distributing processing threads to as many people that join the game tf2ftw: Why not at least separate thread to render things beyond the players view - or maybe that is already happening and the real issue is the mods? sfan5: "render"? tf2ftw: fair. prepare to render? oil_boi_: I think tf2ftw is talking about caching chunks that are not currently stored in the clients mapdata memory pool tf2ftw: Thanks. Yes tf2ftw: I'm sure we're talking about re-arch no matter the direction though. right? oil_boi_: That does technically happen tf2ftw, when you hit unlimited viewing range that's why your client fps tanks if you've walked very far tf2ftw: i see oil_boi_: But I assume you're talking about extending the distance of viewable chunks? tf2ftw: Na I'm just saying to offload work beyond the players view tf2ftw: basically limit the player view so other things can happen at a "slower" pace sfan5: are we talking about the server now or client? tf2ftw: ah right. good call out. I guess that would be the client tf2ftw: Didn't mean to take us down a rabbit hole. Thanks for the info sfan5: the server already puts objects to sleep if there is no client within 48 (by default) nodes oil_boi_: Offload all object ABM LBM etc work seems to happen already, in minetest.conf you have max_block_send_distance which limits the amount of mapblocks you can see, then there's active_object_send_range_blocks which seems to set how far objects can stay alive from the player, and then there's active_block_range which controls how far from the player ABMs can run oil_boi_: Doing this per client would cause some serious problems sfan5: active_block_range also applies to objects sfan5: but when active_object_send_range_blocks < active_block_range the objects are kept alive but you don't see them oil_boi_: Holy moly so any forceloaded block can still process entities? That's extremely useful MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Panquesito7 -> 03minetest/minetest: Add new command /revokeme (#9584) 132fe4641 https://git.io/JftNE (152020-04-26T19:15:05Z) sfan5: they do, yes oil_boi_: *Brain has quit (Quit: Turned to charcoal) oil_boi_: You know what we really need: A fishing game Lone_Wolf: With MC-like fishing rods? oil_boi_: Lone_Wolf, Nah like https://youtu.be/xcZhg77asYU oil_boi_: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi_: Action Bass ... (PS1) - YouTube texmex: Watch out for viral diseases on your favorite servers https://gitlab.com/sztest/epidemic sfan5: !title MinetestBot: sfan5: sztest / epidemic · GitLab texmex: oil_boi_: Nay to synchronous, individual rod fishing. Yay to asynchronous, coop net fishing! tf2ftw: texmex, nice oil_boi_: texmex, that's crazy oil_boi_: And awesome! oil_boi_: Also texmex I already added the prototype of it but it acts weird :T https://youtu.be/e1Uauh0szgU oil_boi_: Maybe just simple fishing for now and make a complete fishing game later :T :T :T oil_boi_: Ahh man, Action Wrass in Minetest is gonna go on the backburner oil_boi_: All the elements of making a fishing game are already in the engine, you can do a singlenode worldgen and literally load maps in by clearing the area using vm and then loading in a stored schematic, hell you can create doom right now with all the stuff that's in the engine jas_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTNostYetvE jas_: rocket jump on jastest jas_: shooter shoots players but not mobs :/ LMD: so one could do something like minetest.register_group_alias{"food", "eatable", "munchies"} VanessaE: and my assumption is based on how much code I'd personally have to adapt, versus how lazy I am :P nephele: Yes, but, i am not asking you to adapt anything LMD: and using a metatable all those groups would point to the same value LMD: changing one would change them all VanessaE: and history suggests that code-wise, I'm not any more lazy than the rest of the modding community nephele: Making code compatible is always a burden, it's a set of restrictions really, not everyone is going to bother nephele: but i atleast want to make it feasible to do nephele: Even if only some mods do take the effort LMD: just develop more advanced alias registration methods and you're fine with minimum effort nephele: LMD, ??? LMD: developing an accepted spec and getting modders to accept it will be a matter of years VanessaE: so it's a reasonable assumption that no one who maintains a large project is gonna bother adapting to any such spec. new mods? maybe, perhaps. old code? no chance. LMD: nephele: I'm saying you should be going for register_alias, but more advanced, for example also for groups. nephele: It's more interesting to gamemodes, if it's implemented in one or two afternoons gamemodes may totally do it LMD: actually not LMD: renaming items is not taken lightly as worlds break nephele: It's a bit easier to provide a:sand than it is to make all your glass recipes conform to use a:sand :P LMD: so they'd have to go with aliases, which creates undesirable legacy code VanessaE: a good comparison might be cars that run on natural gas or propane. any gasoline engine can be adapted to run on those. do people bother? no. too much existing tech to use petrol/diesel. and such a conversion would take less time than rewriting a moderately-sized mod. nephele: LMD, you lost me tbh LMD: and then they'll probably start to wonder why it isn't a compat mod registering those aliases VanessaE: do most people, that is. GreenXenith: LMD has been off in the weeds for most of this discussion LMD: X LMD: D LMD: more like off in the sleeps LMD: should probably go to bed LMD: the interesting stuff is always happening at bedtime nephele: Hmm... only 2:05 nephele: :) LMD: because of the timeshift USA vs Europe GreenXenith: Such is life when you live across the pond LMD: Also 2:05 for me nephele LMD: Still late LMD: Depending on how early one got up nephele: LMD, it's not bedtiem, it's "you should have been asleep for hours" time :D LMD: then I guess imma head out LMD: same goes for you nephele :P scott_: > 90% of all minetest mods depend on `default` It's unreasonable to demand that mineclone2 implement mtg aswell as itself ;) scott_: ^^ this nephele: Not me, i have still flutter apps to develop! LMD: oh, flutter's nice LMD: didn't develop a meaningful thing with it yet tho LMD: seems to be a fresh take at UIs nephele: Yes, except when it keeps pestering you to upgrade to AndroidX LMD: but TBH I don't think you're gonna be very productive at such late hours nephele :P nephele: Depends really, but i'll see i guess :) LMD: you'll probably get more done if you head to bed now and wake up earlier tomorrow LMD: depends on your sleep cycle tho nephele: VanessaE, Not sure i get that comparison, anyhow. I still think it might be neat, even if only 2 or 3 gamemodes implement it some simpler mods could definetely target it for easerish support nephele: Kind of like the uhm, hud api thingy i made GreenXenith: HUD wrappers are soooo nice nephele: although i have been too lazy to fix mods to use it VanessaE: ^ nephele: because i don't actually use those mods : nephele: ) GreenXenith: I made a custom HUD object for a game im working on and it makes life so much easier nephele: GreenXenith, well, i just was really bothered by chat spam by mods nephele: so i defined an api to use instead nephele: basically this: notify.hud.sendtext(player, “Your " .. tool .. " Has been repaired!", 5), where player is a player, second is the text and third is the timeout nephele: VanessaE, still proves my point that implementing such a thing in a gamemode is easier ;), because i do have an implementation :P nephele: and if i get around to it i might even fix that anvil mod to not spam the chat on ve-banana ;) GreenXenith: Does your notify thing roll it's own chat HUD element(s) to divvy up different chat_sends to? Otherwise it looks the same as chat_send_player .. nephele: GreenXenith, It's not in the chat nephele: it's a hud notification VanessaE: it's only easier if you're writing new mods VanessaE: it's rarely easier to adapt old code. GreenXenith: Ah, yes. That makes sense. notify-send 'n stuff :) VanessaE: anyway I'm gonna bow out of this mess nephele: GreenXenith, yeah, i dont like chat beeing full of "you have been teleported" or "you can go that way" or something ;) nephele: it's only really relevant at that specific moment anyway GreenXenith: I made my HUD object because I wanted to make dynamic HUD elements without the hassle of the HUD API, so its a bit lower level than that sort of thing (notifications) nephele: Ah, i used to have a layouting api thingy for hud elements nephele: but that was in gmod, i don't think i ported it ove nephele: mainly because input apis are missing so i cant do anything interesting with it nephele: GreenXenith, well my implementation for that api is really barebone nephele: Just wanted to have an api to point at, and an easy implemnetation one could take GreenXenith: Right GreenXenith: Speaking of input apis, I also made a controller wrapper because I want clients to have full control (heh) over their controls :] nephele: I want apis to get some key presses, specially kp_enter kp_right kp_up and so on nephele: I want to make a bit nicer item movement... a bit similar to like the uhm, fallout4 quickloot in that you don't need to open a formspec explicitly, and can still use your mosue nephele: but move items with the keyboard nephele: i wanted this initiall for gmod too :P, it has gamemodes full of people trying to kill you, but a very blocking inventory UI, even implemented an inventory api somewhat... but alas gmod changed their EULA so here i am GreenXenith: My goal for the controller wrapper is to provide key-independent bindings that can be used in place of keynames so that any key could be used for any action. I also intend to have easy hooks for key_down and key_up so I can differentiate between keypresses and keytaps. Among other features. nephele: is that a wrapper outside the game? GreenXenith: Nope, ingame nephele: I fear that if an api becomes too generic one can't make good input mappings at all anymore nephele: I do want to use a steam controller in minetest somewhat GreenXenith: However, you have just given me an idea ... nephele: its a bit problematic that binding it to wasd translates the digital range to 4bits of input basically, so you have a fixed move speed, even thought he device could convey much more info nephele: so... native controller integration would be required nephele: linux even has steam controller support since i think 5.0 or something? GreenXenith: I use an external controller mapper for my PS2 controller, and it supports partial keypresses GreenXenith: I think .. I havent used it in a while nephele: do you map that to an xbox360 or so? GreenXenith: Controls just get sent to the mapper which translates it into keyboard/mouse actions nephele: ah, that is a bit imprecise, i hope for more direct compatibility in the future nephele: it could make playing on android nicer maybe... but i wonder if that requires irrlicht support rubenwardy: sfan5: sfinv isn't MTG specific. MTG wasn't even the first game to get it. https://github.com/rubenwardy/sfinv rubenwardy: mineclone2 shouldn't be expected to have a default mod, and having one would be disadvantageous rubenwardy: the problem is the default mod in the first place rubenwardy: I've raised cross-game compatibility a long time ago - it sucks currently rubenwardy: forcing every game to have a default mod which a set of nodes isn't helpful rubenwardy: what's more helpful is to stop mods from depending on default at all rubenwardy: so, as said - use groups for items rubenwardy: another big dependency are sounds - service location would be much better rubenwardy: VanessaE: mod developers will need to port their mods to work on games other than MTG. MTG makes cross-compatibility very difficult rubenwardy: a compat layer would be a good solution rubenwardy: ...and I've caught up rubenwardy: re: sounds - sounds would be registered and searched using a bunch of labels. For example: minetest.find_sound({ "granite", "stone", "snappy" }) rubenwardy: the labels would increase in genericity rubenwardy: the aim being to allow fallbacks rubenwardy: this avoids default.glass_sounds_defaults() nephele: ah, so sound categories if you will? going down from "default walking" to "walking on glass" in steps? argyle: So, I'm playing with mg_villages, mobs_redo, etc... Q- Anyone dealing with npc who float about their beds and don't ever get up? argyle: about = above tf2ftw: It seems like the V6 map gen is not utilized much or is not compatible with many mods. Why is that? DrFrankenstone: V6 doesn't use the biome system exposed to the API DrFrankenstone: Wuzzy made a biomeinfo mod that makes it easier to support some aspects of V6, but you still need make special effort to support it VanessaE: plantlife + moretrees + biome_lib ftw ;) VanessaE: (at least, for mgv6) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04EvidenceBKidscode -> 03minetest/minetest: Add server side translations capability (#9733) 13cee3c5e https://git.io/JfLhO (152020-04-25T05:20:00Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Simplify how parseElement splits element string (#9726) 136cc5c7c https://git.io/JfLhu (152020-04-25T05:48:04Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest: Ensure game is shutdown if server throws exception (#9742) 1349ed0ca https://git.io/Jfted (152020-04-25T07:42:18Z) jas_: ye v6 is nice jas_: oh there's a new option to sound_play, smh. this bool makes it so minetest doesn't run out of memory playing sounds? just kidding around... seriously sound and keys, just do 'em over hahahah just kidding again ok back to it MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: mapblock_mesh: Optimize a few things (#9713) 1373180a7 https://git.io/JftUk (152020-04-25T10:39:17Z) jas_: !mod MinetestBot: jas_: Kill Spikes by nirasa - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19028 - https://github.com/nirasa1957/kill_spikes jas_: nice i'm glad i got a second url jas_: hmmmm, very interesting appguru: !mod MinetestBot: appguru: Not So Simple Buildings [nssb] by npx - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14135 - https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssb appguru: doesn't work in PMs :/ appguru: oh wait jas_: i like to issue !mod to see a sort of "mod of the day" jas_: !server MinetestBot: jas_: Nico's World | 185.249.197.68 | Clients: 16/64, 14/29 | Version: 0.4.17.1 / minetest | Ping: 10ms jas_: nice * jas_: comments out minetest.register_abm in mobs_redo/api.lua Krock: jas_: there's no such data to sort by jas_: what? appguru: wait, works in PMs jas_: Krock: what? Krock: jas_: there's no mod of the day jas_: there is, in a sense, hence the quotes, for me as i issue !mod every so often, typically once a day Krock: neither a click counter jas_: same with !server jas_: it's not your mod of the day, it's mine. anyways, how are things? * jas_: throws mono_dejavu_sans_10.xml at Krock appguru: the serverlist should probably be styled appguru: i mean, it doesn't matter for me sfan5: styled? appguru: yeah, a bit more beautiful probably Krock: it is styled in the web view appguru: it should resemble the in-game serverlist in terms of that appguru: yeah, ik appguru: but it should be styled more appguru: https://servers.minetest.net is pretty much a quite plain table Krock: that's good as-is. what matters is the content and usability, not how it looks jas_: (oh, easier just to put a return in mobs:spawn_specific) appguru: Krock: the looks are important, and it wouldn't be much of an effort to improve on that Krock: your PR is welcome appguru: where's the repo? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/master-server/ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix DPI scaling on Windows 138b45f6a https://git.io/Jftke (152020-04-25T12:00:11Z) Zughy: Krock, the look is as important as the content Krock: opinion1 <-------- 1 km (+/- 100 m) -----> opinion2 Zughy: if I provide the best tool in the world but the interface is horrible, not a lot of people will try it jas_: ye i like a flat text list jas_: and don't visit the serverlist on browser too often Krock: it's gotta be simple and easy to use Zughy: yes, and aesthetically pleasant jas_: what's more aesthetically pleasing than text Zughy: I'm not talking about the server list, I'm talking in general jas_: mmm sweet text Zughy: so not even about Minetest specifically jas_: me either, dunno what i'm talking about actually jas_: but i DO love plain text Krock: me too jas_: oh you! :D jas_: i'm putting mob buttons to spawn manually lol Zughy: anyway: there is a texture called default_item_smoke. Where does it get spawned exactly? Torches? jas_: burn poof jas_: on_burn, and maybe hmm tnt? jas_: there's a weird history, i THINK, with smoke.png or something jas_: gah jas_: anyway it only appears in the burn poof i believe appguru: Whenever you'd think there'd be smoke appguru: For example items burning in Lava appguru: Or firing guns jas_: ye i seem to remember another file, maybe smoke.png, or something and it was associated with player death jas_: or maybe entity punch? jas_: entity death? Krock: see also: smoke_puff.png jas_: smoke_puff.png ty Zughy: oh yeah, I found that one already, ty jas_: minetest is so weird Zughy: let's make it less weird then (?) jas_: let's try and mash gpl quake 3 physics into it and see what happens jas_: i been playing a lot of urban terror jas_: seriously, i would love to put libpd into minetest though jas_: and redo keys (input bindings) and sounds Zughy: I'd love some collisions checks jas_: there you go jas_: well that was fun jas_: i'm gonna go back to these dumb mobs Zughy: enjoy it Wuzzy: Anyone on GNU/Linux been compiling Minetest -dev so far? Wuzzy: if yes, do translations work for you? Wuzzy: because they don't for me jas_: well yes but everything is english so i don't know jas_: a lot of good that was Wuzzy: aha Wuzzy: so i'm not the only one for whom translations broke again... jas_: i'd have been surprised if it weren't english jas_: wasn't? hah! Zughy: uhm, I see there are two keys (skeleton and default) but in the creative inventory I can only find the former. Hhhow so? jas_: i think the regular silver one you jas_: well i get it mixed up, but one is the result of use the other jas_: once you use it, it has the information embedded in it, and it turns color? i've only ever used them like once, to try them jas_: they seem super nifty tho jas_: alright, eight mobs to choose from on formspec lol jas_: !server jastest MinetestBot: jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 133ms Copenhagen_Bram: How do I start making a translation mod for minetest? Copenhagen_Bram: I wanna translate minetest stuff to a non-ISO language, namely toki pona Copenhagen_Bram: I was told earlier that I could make a mod for that. So where do I begin? jas_: https://i.imgur.com/93MfhOS.png jas_: i dunno copenhagen_bram, there was a intllib mod or some such Copenhagen_Bram: hmm, lemme look into that Copenhagen_Bram: maybe i can cargo cult it or something Krock: does downsampling really improve performance for you? jas_: i dunno, i will find out some point jas_: between obs and puredata jas_: with gem oil_boi: Wuzzy, what are the sources and licenses on fire_extinguish_*.ogg in the mineclone2 fire mod? jas_: and jack plus pulseaudio jas_: it churns up quick oil_boi: Wuzzy, is it this? oil_boi: https://freesound.org/people/ReWired/sounds/48693/ jas_: Krock: it looks sweet at 800x600 lemme tell ya! hahah Krock: Copenhagen_Bram: first of all Minetest needs to know about the language. try adding a po/ directory plus minetest.po file with LANG_CODE=??? so that the client translations can be loaded Wuzzy: see README Krock: of it's about inttlib.. well, check the API of the mod. likely possible to add such support Wuzzy: oil_boi: actually, its copied from MTG... jas_: i'm hoping to get a solid 60fps at as many conditions as possible Wuzzy: oil_boi: Copyright (C) 2012 Perttu Ahola (celeron55) (CC BY-SA 3.0) jas_: besides right now i'm running the server on the machine i'm playing/developing/streaming on ... but yeah, undersampling to me just looks cool like software quake renderer oil_boi: Wuzzy, thank you jas_: right now you gotta right click the block (flag) onto yours to cap, but i'll add on_punch too... then just hmm, explode if held more than n seconds or dropped, etc hehe jas_: minetest so fun MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Add `animated_image` to clickthrough elements (#9724) 13bc60e44 https://git.io/Jftt6 (152020-04-25T14:55:21Z) jas_: upon further consideration that idea seems complicated; i'll pin it. instead, ... *mkdir shooter* Copenhagen_Bram: Copenhagen_Bram: first of all Minetest needs to know about the language. try adding a po/ directory plus minetest.po file with LANG_CODE=??? so that the client translations can be loaded Copenhagen_Bram: where? in ~/.minetest? Krock: minetest source MarwolTuk: Moin, someone into modding minerest-games default rails (carts)? Am I right it's impossible to get them connected to non-raillike nodes? I'm currently trying to extend on carts rail-system and some stuff isn't really doable by using raillike. appguru: did you know that dropping a tool while using it just readds it to your inventory? appguru: Minetest definitely needs more docs :P jas_: hm, didn't work for me rubenwardy: that's due to how itemstack returns work, it sucks] appguru: jas: you have to hold LMB while wielding a tool and then press Q while still wielding jas_: i did it dropped it and i kept digging jas_: with my hand appguru: hmm appguru: works for me appguru: does the item have an on_drop? jas_: it's just a wood pick appguru: worked for me with a dia pick, MT 5.2 and newest MTG jas_: well when i drop the tool while digging it doesn't re-add it directly back into my inventory, my digging stays fixed on the node jas_: and the tool slides away jas_: maybe it's item_drop mod for auto-pickup? appguru: no, I don't have item_drop installed jas_: no i mean i do jas_: https://github.com/jastevenson303/ll_items appguru: eh lol jas_: is that why it doesn't re-add for me? appguru: I just realized I immediately picked up the item after dropping because my LMB was pressed jas_: rubenwardy: what's that about then? appguru: Probably the item should not be pointable for the first 0.5 secs :P jas_: if you don't let go of LMB it's not pointable, because you're still digging whatever node ur digging jas_: for me, i don't lose focus of the node unless i let go of dig, regardless of item dropping jas_: and if the node disappears it goes to whatever node, unless i let go of LMB. it always prioritizes the node until i let go of lmb appguru: well, I was not digging anything, just pointing in the air jas_: and clicked? jas_: on an item? i guess i just really don't understand sorry rubenwardy: jas_: some callbacks allow you to return an itemstack to replace the wielded item rubenwardy: the side effect of this is that if you try to set the wielded item in another method, then it won't actually change the weild item jas_: oh so maybe his tool has an on_drop callback? rubenwardy: as the callback will replace your change when you return from the callback rubenwardy: no, he's already said it's due to holding LMB jas_: oh jas_: ok jas_: the cow looks like a squished spider when it dies now lol begui: What are some of the best mods out there? tf2ftw: are there any cheat sheets as to where to find ores? depths etc tf2ftw: begui, my favorite is item_drop tf2ftw: and illumination Krock: !wiki Mods MinetestBot: "Mods (short for modifications or modules) are user-created modifications to the game in such a way that adds to or alters the gameplay." - http://wiki.minetest.net/Mods Krock: there should be a list of popular ones Krock: on servers - at least. begui: Oh sweet begui: doesn't seem like the page is up appguru: It is though appguru: You just have to be lucky begui: well would you look at that... :D * texmex: pulls the daily oil_boi commits tf2ftw: can someon explain to me how to use the areas mod? When to you click twice on a block? majochup: tf2ftw the mod that protects with /pos1 or the protection blocks mod? tf2ftw: the one that uses /pos1 tf2ftw: I'll use whichever one is easier though majochup: tf2ftw, you get a area, go down in one corner (as deep as you please) /pos 1, go up on the other corner of the area you want protected (as high as you please) /protect areaname majochup: although iirc there's limitations on how big an area can get tf2ftw: let me try tf2ftw: majochup, thanks for your help. I've placed clear boxes with numbers in them but I'm not sure how the area is defined. hmm cheapie: Is there a "proper way" (like through the engine?) to work with sqlite databases from in a mod, or is the only real way to do this to load some random sqlite library from within the mod? majochup: clear numbers where? majochup: tf2ftw, as far as I know there isn't a need for numbers. tf2ftw: majochup, https://imgur.com/N5dWRda majochup: tf2ftw, did you place both positions? tf2ftw: yes it gives 2 clear boxes like that tf2ftw: but they are placed in the position I'm standing majochup: now you do /protect areaname tf2ftw: ooh majochup: it should protect the area, after that you can remove the 1 and 2 nodes tf2ftw: ok got it. do you know how many blocks the perimeter is? majochup: the max perimiter? tf2ftw: Im confused as to what defines the area. I see placing these 2 blocks but I don't understand what's actually protected and not majochup: let's say you wanna protect a square of 20x20x20, first you go to one corner, dig down 20 blocks, /pos1. You go to the other corner of that 20x20 square, go up 20 blocks and /pos2. Now you /protect areaname majochup: tf2ftw, did it work? tf2ftw: majochup, ok i understand now. Thanks a lot majochup: Wonderful! tf2ftw: Mahjong, i've figured it all out. It's pretty easy! Thanks again Mahjong: you're welcome xD Wuzzy: JT2 server's still down ... 🙁 Wuzzy: am I addicted to JT2? 😀 Wuzzy: Yesterday I lost interact priv on JT2, lol. Apparently I messed with a safe too often. haha Wuzzy: Any JT2 / former Just Test or @test@ players here? 🙂 majochup: b-but majochup: tf2ftw, I'm called Majochup, Mahjong >:c jas_: lol rschulman: Is there a minimap mod anywhere? nephele: something different than the normal minimap you mean? benrob0329: (minetest includes a minimap as of, 0.4.16?) rschulman: Well... that was embarassing. rschulman: Though, apparently its been disabled by some mod I'm running right now. :) sfan5: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mapping_Kit cheapie: This is why you can't let me play with pistons... https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20200425_181236.png cheapie: (4-bit adder with display, 100% relay logic) sagax: hi all! sagax: how to change software video_driver? sagax: what value must be put to minetest.conf? nephele: cheapie, hmm... doens't seem that bad nephele: i was expecting something worse cheapie: sagax: Not sure why you would want to use the software driver, but "video_driver = software" sagax: thanks cheapie: Just keep in mind software rendering is often buggy and slow. sfan5: software barely works, I'd suggest "video_driver = burningsvideo" instead sfan5: that also doesn't really work well, but it works somewhat properly cheapie: nephele: It's a kind of modular setup, I guess - the pistons that look kinda randomly arranged in the top left are a 4-bit adder, the ones in a line at the bottom are the decoder (converts a 4-bit number to one of 16 outputs), and then the mess up top by the display is the character ROM. cheapie: Said ROM is also, yes, built from relays... nephele: i wonder why one wants to use a software renderer in the engine above just using llvmpipe or so for the normal video driver to provide opengl, but eh appguru: software rendering could actually have awesome advantages sfan5: such as? appguru: raytracing appguru: I have to admit that nowadays graphic cards have catched up on this, but if you want to write a raytracer CPU rendering is usually the way to go appguru: And a second thing I thought of would be some sort of extended Z-buffer in order to get rid of the Z-sorting issue nephele: why would you want raytracing on the cpu? appguru: because of the increased flexibilty, GPU programming is very restricted and hardware-specific appguru: and because especially older GPUs can hardly be used for raytracing nephele: GPU's are architecturally designed to process instructions in parralel, they are especially usefull for tasks like raytracing nephele: cpus not so much appguru: I know appguru: But that can't change the fact that the GPUs of many devices just don't support it nephele: In any case, llvmpipe is the fastest software renderer we have nephele: seems kind of pointless to use a different one inside the engine appguru: I'm not speaking of MT at this point appguru: I rather thought about software rendering in general nephele: appguru, sure, but even if you do it in the CPU you won't get nearly the performance you would need for real-time raytracing appguru: depends nephele: if you want to pre-render a scene that would be fine i guess appguru: with reduced resolution one could come pretty close nephele: Yes, but nobody likes 144p ;) nephele: With modern cpus you could do a lot of the work too... the 32 core variants and stuff appguru: ^ nephele: maybe do some work on gpu and some on cpu even appguru: yeah rubenwardy: nephele: performance isn't the only thing, software raytracers are much easier to write rubenwardy: They're also useful on machines without GPUs, like servers rubenwardy: I was briefly getting minetest to render on a headless server using a virtual X server rubenwardy: But gave up on that rubenwardy: Two reason I've wanted to do that - for formspec rendering tests, and for automatic screenshots on capture the flag nephele: rubenwardy, well i was arguing mostly with mt in mind, there it does not make much sense to me to build raytracing based on the cpu nephele: minetest on headless X should work fine? although nothing prevents you from plugging a gpu in a server, not that you need to have a high framerate rubenwardy: True rubenwardy: Travis VMs don't have access to GPUs or OpenGL nephele: I'd use llvmpipe if you need software opengl nephele: not the best performance, but still okay rubenwardy: Didn't know about that rubenwardy: I'd still like to do a CTF screenshoter one day rubenwardy: I'd extend the csm API to allow taking screenshots and manipulating the player position nephele: so the server runs a client that teleports around to make screenshots? rubenwardy: And rotation rubenwardy: Yeah rubenwardy: It would be a fun experiment nephele: indeed rubenwardy: Tbh, I could host it on my RPi rubenwardy: I'm not sure how the camera would know what to take photos of rubenwardy: It could have access to events and look for clusters of players nephele: Setting the camer angle in csm is something i've been missing for quite some time btw :P rubenwardy: Then a heightmap could be used to work out optimal placement of the camera nephele: I suppose it depends on the maps you have, if its just fixed maps mostly fixed positions should work fine probably jonadab: The most ridiculous thing about clouds: http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/pastebin/1160.png ssieb: krock: What do you mean by "One executable cannot use more than one core"? That's the whole point of using threads. ssieb: Well, not the *whole* point, but a big part. freelikegnu: i see nothing wrong with that cloud. Where I freelikegnu: I'm from we call that fog comrad: ground clouds! * theenemystando[m: uploaded an image: screenshot_20200424_135405.png (680KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/OUSbWLFRaTooAfueSUMfimpa > theenemystando[m: its pretty nice when it works though texmex: Please support #7284 ! freelikegnu, comrad, TheEnemyStando ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7284 -- Per-player customizable fog (thickness, color, ...) theenemystando[m: yusf: per-player fog is pretty cool. how would this work with the ability of toggling fog though? texmex: TheEnemyStando: Imo it would need to be ”authoritive” in that it would override the toggle. But that’s just me wanting to be able to create games where every player having the same conditions. Regardless i’d be happy with the feature in almost any shape. theenemystando[m: same here, it'd would make something like blindness effect or underwater "fog" possible. theenemystando[m: Too often I see the sky underwater, below the surface of the sea Nyarg: if I want to load into a frame (for exaple fformspec) custom avatar picture at runtime, what do I to do ? Nyarg: load from harddisk of cource Nyarg: *of course ANAND: The image has to be present in the mod's textures/ dir during server startup ANAND: i.e. It's currently not possible to send media to the client at runtime Nyarg: Ok. But if I want to load picture at local side working in offline mode ? ANAND: Same story ANAND: Texture needs to be present in the mod's textures/ dir at startup tf2ftw: sofar, does mcactive still work? The link in the forum leads to 404 jonadab: freelikegnu: fog isn't usually a thin stripe from waist level up to about nose level. jonadab: In my experience. jonadab: Also, in the real world, there isn't any one specific height that all the clouds are at, so there isn't any one specific altitude where you constantly can't function because of incessant fog. I mean, there *are* areas with constant fog, but it's for other reasons (warm water meeting cold air, usually). Copenhagen_Bram: is it possible to open minetest with toki pona as the language? SwissalpS: where is that spoken? cheapie: So I found out why mesecons_mvps is so slow :P Krock: you enabled it in your world. cheapie: They're iterating over *every single entity on the entire server* to figure out which ones should be pushed/pulled, every time a piston/movestone is activated. Krock: only getting nearby ones would make sense cheapie: It would. Krock: caching is not an option sfan5: still somewhat slow since get_objects_in_radius doesn't have an optimal implementation sfan5: but surely fast that doing everything in lua Krock: well, it got better recently, although not noticeably sfan5: I imagine adding an option to disable entity pulling/pushing would also make sense cheapie: On the server I was troubleshooting the slow performance on, it was taking about 150ms to execute a single piston push of one node... it's that bad. Krock: how many entities does it check each time? cheapie: All of them. Krock: in numbers? cheapie: At that moment, there were 3408. Krock: hmm, that's surprising low for that time cheapie: Mostly sign text and other such things that should never be moved anyway. Krock: Could you please check the difference using a binary from https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e8ac5a31 or newer? cheapie: They're not using that function, that's the problem. Krock: would be interesting to have a comparison for scaling Krock: oh right stupid me cheapie: They're using "for id, obj in pairs(minetest.object_refs) do"... Krock: *angry looks* Krock: for _, obj in pairs(minetest.get_objects_inside_radius(pos, 2)) do cheapie: Yes, that would be a lot more sane. Krock: please check the difference. I'll push that change to the repo if it still works fine Krock: although the range might need to be 3 to support the maximal collision box range cheapie: I think it would have to check near each node in the stack, that's kind of a problem. cheapie: I wish there was like a minetest.get_objects_inside_area(pos1,pos2) function, as that would be perfect. cheapie: FWIW, I'd be 100% fine if only pistons/movestones themselves and not the pushed/pulled nodes could move entities. cheapie: *except* for movestones with a vertical stack on top of them. Krock: or only the head of the pushed node column/stack cheapie: Yeah, "only the head" would work fine for my needs. Krock: or radius = stacksize + 1 cheapie: As long as large radiuses aren't super-slow, yeah. Krock: this will include many more entities than needed but might already bring a speed ebefit cheapie: Krock: OK, so I tried a simple one-line patch, changing the line you gave the angry look to be "for id, obj in pairs(minetest.get_objects_inside_radius(pos,#nodestack+1)) do" - or at least I think so anyway, it was a live patch on a running server via dofile()... anyway, pistons and such still seem to work properly as far as I can tell, and even though it had been kinda fast (8ms or so) since I did a /clearobjects it's more like 1ms now. Krock: :< I hoped there could be a comparison of before/now cheapie: Yes, 8ms before, 1ms now, both were after the /clearobjects which is why they're not up at like 100ms. cheapie: Something I can do if you want - there's a machine I have on that server that normally becomes unbearably slow after the server has been running for a few hours - I can check back later and see if it's still fast. Krock: only if that mvps performance causes its slowness cheapie: That had been determined already, yes. cheapie: As stuff starts slowing down, it's all mvps stuff that slows, and only mvps stuff. cheapie: At the moment, that machine has already slowed down enough that there's a noticeable difference between the patched and original versions just from watching it. cheapie: If I give the server another few hours for people to run around and cause more sign entities to be regenerated, the unpatched function will probably slow back down to making it unbearably slow and then I can test it vs. the patched one again at that point. sfan5: doesn't signs_lib have a command to regenerate entities? cheapie: Only in loaded mapblocks :/ cheapie: OK, so I did some more running around to try to get the entity count back up some - a piston push of a single node is taking about 30-40ms without the patch and around 1ms with it. cheapie: Testing with pushing 16 nodes, the unpatched version is taking about 20-30ms (don't ask me why it's faster than moving 1 node) and the patched version is hovering around 3-6ms. sofar: tf2ftw: mcactive? what? oil_boi: doesn't signs_lib have a command to regenerate entities? Yes but it should happen automatically cheapie: oil_boi: Yes, but only on load. oil_boi: That is not good cheapie: Why not? cheapie: That's usually fairly standard practice for nodes that have entities that go with them to provide extra functionality - an LBM that checks if the entity is still there and creates it if not. oil_boi: The player should not be able to tell when a sing is change data, or regenerating data, only to see when the sign is too far and for it to unload and then reload as they get closer cheapie: So you want the engine to magically know that the sign is going to be loaded before it actually is? oil_boi: No the mod should know how far the player is from the sign and then unload reload accordingly oil_boi: Also if clearobjects is run it should auto regenerate oil_boi: The sign should be semi sentient even if that sentience is calculated per individual client around the position cheapie: There's no "someone ran /clearobjects" callback that I know of. nephele: oil_boi, the server already sends entities only in a specific radius cheapie: Anyway, signs_lib is from VanessaE, talk to her if you think it should work differently. oil_boi: Yes but that's different from LBM, and cheapie I am making it work differently cheapie: oil_boi: I'm still not really sure I understand what you want the sign to do, then. cheapie: Are you saying the node should cease to exist too when the entity does? oil_boi: But right now I am too busy being drunk and listening to Excision to do paste any code or explain what my commit changes are cheapie: Krock: How's this for a comparison? https://cheapiesystems.com/media/pistonspeedup.webm cheapie: That's a hidden piston door using digilines pistons - it tries to run as fast as it can, with lots of interrupt(0) use. cheapie: It's being demonstrated opening and closing first without and then with the patch. oil_boi: Oh wait I had a moment of clarity, the client should use minetest.find_nodes_in_area and then tell the client to load them otherwise don't Krock: nice speed cheapie: oil_boi: So... how big of an area would that be? oil_boi: The client should have a variable from a clientside menu to decide default to 12 xyz cheapie: "close enough to load the mapblock" isn't a suitable value for this? :P oil_boi: That's why I haven't implemented that into crafter, the clientside menu is a think on it's own, and no it's not at all, imagine 100000+ signs with entities loaded into the server oil_boi: I need to think about it more and take notes before I can create a better way Krock: reduce level of detail over distance cheapie: Krock: It seems to behave exactly the same as before except for the speed, though admittedly I'm not all that familiar with how it's supposed to act entity-wise. oil_boi: No Krock that's not too good actually, the memory data will still be loaded into the client and it still needs to process it cheapie: oil_boi: 100k signs? That would take an awful lot of players. oil_boi: But if the client could be told by the server the radius that it needs to be loaded within a certain radius that would work insanely well oil_boi: cheapie, you have to think 10,000 steps ahead or a mod will lag on a server cheapie: VE-Creative doesn't lag :P cheapie: And that has signs_lib with a ton of signs. Krock: just overclock the CPU when mods get laggy Krock: easy fix oil_boi: That's because the entities don't calculate their movement and I've been on there and the client goes from 500-700 FPS to 10-54 when I enter an area with a lot of signs cheapie: Easy fix for that too, get a better CPU and/or video card or turn your view range down :P Krock: is each sign one entity, or is each letter an entity? cheapie: Krock: Each sign. Krock: ... just us e[ combine Krock: *use [combine cheapie: ...yes, that's more or less how it works. oil_boi: Players only need to see what they read when it comes to signs otherwise it's wasted cpu because the amount of pixels your screen can actually render quickly degredates the farther you are from a sign Krock: oh. "each sign". well, each sign can have one or multiple entities cheapie: oil_boi: Then don't use signs_lib :P oil_boi: cheapie, that's quite a cop out when it can be vastly improved with the experimental features cheapie: I can't just magically figure out which sign a player probably wants to read. oil_boi: That's why we need the client to download client mods auto when joining a server otherwise custom servers become an extreme mess Krock: cheapie: telepathy connection through SSH cheapie: ...what does CSM have to do with that? oil_boi: Oh you can cheapie, distance cheapie: That's *what the view range setting is for* Krock: or active_object_send_range_blocks oil_boi: fuck it, when I sober up I'll address https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/issues/7 oil_boi: Yeah, that is insane to calculate that serverside cheapie: Maybe when you sober up this'll make more sense. oil_boi: Oh no, it's made sense for about 27 days, I just don't feel like implementing it because it's around 2700 lines of code Krock: flashbacks to the time when /clearobjects deleted players as well cheapie: Krock: Oh, not just /clearobjects, players used to just be deleted at random :P Krock: due to entity overload in a mapblock yes Krock: but these were separate issues Krock: or when invalid param2 values caused a segfault in 0.4.7 :D cheapie: Or when /rollback_check took over 10 minutes :P Krock: right. rollback itself is still slow, though. cheapie: Yeah, I found the problem causing that and mentioned it in #minetest-dev, but I don't really want to go submit a PR and have to deal with them over there. cheapie: Basically back when I fixed /rollback_check it broke /rollback in the process. Krock: depending on your last time there, a lot might have changed Krock: ugh cheapie: The fix is to create a second index in the rollback DB, on the "timestamp" column of the "actor" table. Krock: then sort by timestamp cheapie: There used to be one there, but I mistakenly removed it when fixing the other index problems. VanessaE: what cheapie: VanessaE: ? VanessaE: what's needed with those sign entities is a way to fade them out VanessaE: but that distance needs to be something the mod can specify per-entity cheapie: VanessaE's rollback DBs have that second index created on them already, and they seem to be fast enough at both /rollback_check and /rollback now. VanessaE: (big signs with big text are readable from farther away than small signs) cheapie: VanessaE: I've put two files in VE-C's world directory at the moment - test-piston-fix.lua switches to that patched function in mesecons_mvps and undo-test-piston-fix.lua switches back to the original. You can dofile() them from in game to switch. cheapie: At the moment, I have some command blocks down in my playground area, by the hidden piston door, that switch them as well. jas_: !server jastest MinetestBot: jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 135ms jas_: (gotta get to the switch to build) just added skins jas_: hi Krock: VanessaE: fading out is only an eye candy. Only skipping the render part helps MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix door model UV for open and close (#2372) 13189d2d9 https://git.io/JfLX8 (152020-04-24T19:04:00Z) VanessaE: Krock: yeah but if they begin to fade away say 5m before some set distance, and then unload entirely if they're past that distance..? Krock: feasible. what about zoom, what about letter size? VanessaE: not unlike how terrain works (when infinite view is turned off) Krock: infinite view doesn't exist anyway VanessaE: I mean "r" mode. Krock: occluded mapblocks are never rendered, also false-positives VanessaE: yeah but I'm referring to the dog distance for those. VanessaE: merely for comparison MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix flammable item entities crashing (#2659) 1333eb7ce https://git.io/JfLXo (152020-04-24T19:12:40Z) jas_: \o/ VanessaE: beyond the fog threshold, the map block isn't even rendered at all. VanessaE: entities ought to be able to do something similar. VanessaE: letter size? that's why the mod needs to specify it per-entity. a wall sign with small text is readable up to about 8m away. big signs, more like 20m. VanessaE: so with those small signs I might like to set a distance limit of, oh, let's say 15m. they'd begin to fade away (become translucent to the sign background) when you got say 10m away, and by the time you're 15m away, the entity has faded away entirely and so it can be unloaded by the client VanessaE: that way you don't just see the text popping in and out of existence as you walk around. VanessaE: er, s/dog/fog/ earlier ;P VanessaE: or maybe I shouldn't say unloaded, but just stops being rendered Copenhagen_Bram: where is that spoken? Copenhagen_Bram: toki pona is spoken on the internet, I believe tf2ftw: sofar, the MC to MT texture tool you have posted in the forum. The posts is pretty old and the link to the tool is dead. I ask because its a pinned forum post. VanessaE: Krock: oh, as for zoom, since under my suggested scheme the entities would still be loaded and just not rendered when too far away, zooming in on a sign should just render the entity without the fade effect. VanessaE: (and turn them on for signs that are out of normal range) VanessaE: (maybe multiply the distance limit, so signs that are far away than the cut-off, are fading out in the zoomed view, 3x farther away, or whatever the zoom level is) Copenhagen_Bram: so why doesn't minetest have stuff like toki pona and pirate speak and lolcat like minecraft does? VanessaE: what would those even do? rubenwardy: I think we have higher priorities than that ANAND: ^ VanessaE: Copenhagen_Bram: that said, those sound like things that can be done with a mod Copenhagen_Bram: VanessaE: They're languages Copenhagen_Bram: well, the last two, sort of. The last two are basically humorous variations on English Copenhagen_Bram: I wonder what the LANG= code would be for toki pona VanessaE: yeah as I said, you could do it with a mod, translating chat messages one way or the other Copenhagen_Bram: Hmm cheapie: Copenhagen_Bram: Fun fact, if the LANG thing uses the ISO 639-3 codes, there's one for Klingon ("tlh") sofar: tf2ftw: mcresconvert sofar: https://github.com/minetest-tools/mcresconvert tf2ftw: thanks scott_: when starting a game with the "mobs" mod enabled, I'm getting the following error: 'mod "mobs" has unsatisfied dependencies: "default"' sfan5: where did you download this "mobs" mod? are you using minetest_game? scott_: sorry I'm playing Mineclone 2 and I downloaded it from the "content" tab in the in-game menu rschulman: Is the `pos` in the call to `after_place_node` the position of the node that was placed or the player that placed it? sfan5: chances are it's not compatible with mineclone2 then sfan5: rschulman: the node obviously sfan5: you could easily retrieve the position of the placing player yourself rschulman: That's what I figured, but calling `minetest.get_node_timer(pos)` is returning something of the type `userdata`, which I'm confused by. sfan5: it returns an object of this type: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5792 rschulman: Yeah, I know, that's what I'm expecting, but if I do `local node_to_start = minetest.get_node_timer(pos)` then `print(node_to_start)` I get `userdata: 0x40255f50` rschulman: so I'm clearly using it wrong. :) scott_: thanks sfan5 sfan5: rschulman: that's expected behaviour though, the NodeTimerRef object can't be printed as a string rschulman: Ok, I figured it out. I needed to call `node_to_start:set` with a colon, I was using a period. nephele: mineclone2 does not implement the default mod nephele: either the mobs mod shoudl explicitly support it, or a compat layer may be used (i don't know of any though...) VanessaE: it's up to mineclone2 to remain compatible with regular mods imho nephele: There are no regular mods nephele: and there is no guranteed api for which nodes are available or not VanessaE: I mean mods written with minetest_game in mind. VanessaE: don't split hairs :P VanessaE: I mean, shit, 90% of all minetest mods depend on `default` nephele: It's unreasonable to demand that mineclone2 implement mtg aswell as itself ;) VanessaE: and actually, there is -- minetest.registered_items{} nephele: That's not a compatibility layer, that's just a method one could use to implement one VanessaE: yes... and? nephele: So, you are incorrect in saying it is one? VanessaE: I read "api" as "a feature of the modding api" VanessaE: and that table is one. nephele: I men that as in, there is no gurantee that default:wood is available in future mtg version nephele: as in what mods can expect for crafting recipes, there is simply no gurantee currently for known good values VanessaE: the probability of something basic like that being removed is basically 0 nephele: groups could be somewhat portable but mtg doesn't implement them widely nephele: What makes you say that? it's entirely possible that blocks get replaced with variants of the block, i.e that only pine_wood etc. exist sfan5: the bigger issue IMO aren't items or nodes but functions such as player_api or sfinv that are minetest_game specific nephele: Crafting recipes hinge on node names nephele: if you can't craft many node mods aren't usable for instance VanessaE: mineclone's seeks to be different. I get that. but being SO different that you can't even have a "skeleton" `default` mod that consists of just aliases between its nodes and functions, and those of mtg? that's taking the concept too far. nephele: You could implement a mod named "default" for mtg that registers aliases VanessaE: no nephele: but again, mtg is a moving target, maintaining this is non-trivial VanessaE: you implement it for mineclone nephele: I ment mineclone VanessaE: mtg is not as much a moving target as you think... nephele: sorry, i mistyled VanessaE: when was the last time some node or sound was *removed* from mtg> nephele: Sure it is, there is not a single api or node for which mtg provides any gurantees of existance VanessaE: (I can only remember the poptart cat and that was years ago) VanessaE: how long must something persist before you consider it stable? nephele: code rot is not a sign of stability nephele: and neither is acumilating code depth nephele: If you want a stable api to target for mods, you need just that an actually defined api VanessaE: *sigh* VanessaE: you didn't answer the question nephele: I literally did VanessaE: no, you didn't sfan5: there's no guarantee that mineclone must have a specific (or any) type of wood either nephele: Yes i did VanessaE: I asked for a time length sfan5: so how would you actually define a "stable" api? nephele: And i told you that there is no time length that would ever make something stable nephele: sfan5, write it down VanessaE: so by that metric, NOTHING can be stable and the minetest modding API can't be relied on? nephele: The modding api provides gurantees nephele: I know what calls version 5.0.0 has, i can rely on them nephele: I also know which calls are deprecated sfan5: so you write down "outer straw stairs" and by consequence every game that wants to be compatible needs to have straw, stairs, straw stairs and an outer variant of them? VanessaE: oh, and, I'm looking right at your text, you did NOT say anything implying "no time length" nephele: sfan5, any game that wants to be able to provide a craftin recipe involving outer straw stairs, yes nephele: VanessaE, i literally did "code rot is not a sign of stability" VanessaE: what has code rot to do with time required to consider something "stable" in the sense that you can rely on it being there? nephele: someone not changing a component for any time is not an indicator of it beeing a stable or an endorsed api nephele: Time has nothing to do with it VanessaE: horseshit sfan5: nephele: right, then you have a "stable" API but just about everything is optional? VanessaE: something is "stable" if it can be relied on to be there and to work as intended. nephele: sfan5, no, the point of such a gurantee is to have, you know, a gurantee nephele: same with posix, most systems implement it almost completely nephele: and those that dont simply arent compatible nephele: VanessaE, that has nothing to do with api compatibility VanessaE: it has *everything* to do with it! nephele: like the mod above that relied on mtg, while presumebly beeing perfectly adaptable to run on mineclone sfan5: but you just said a game would a game would only provide outer straw stairs if it wanted to be compatible, so doesn't that mean they are optional? VanessaE: the engine modding API is stable. the minetest_game API is considered stable, too, as is its contents. VanessaE: as are* nephele: No it doesn't, if you for some reason think outer straw stairs are essential enough to define in this layer and a game does then not implement them it is incompatible VanessaE: I'm pretty sure nearly every minetest modder would agree with me VanessaE: (the 0.4.x/5.x.x break notwithstanding) sfan5: ok nephele: MTG is not stable, there are no gurantees for anything nephele: literally nothing i can rely on and just port over to mineclone2 as an api defintion mods can just use sfan5: then you end up with a "stable" api that is defined to contain exactly the nodes/items MTG has sfan5: ...which is not very useful at all sfan5: since games that do not implement all of it are automatically "incompatible" nephele: sfan5, It obviously would not contain the exact same nodes sfan5: no then where do you draw the line? nephele: sfan5, crafting groups are extremely usefull for this nephele: for instance a group:solid_fuel would already provide huge compaitbility nephele: In a sense, the crafting api destinction for what type of crafting it is, like smelting, is exactly the kind of compat you could easily have over severall gamemodes sfan5: isn't that the intersection of (all nodes) and (items that have a fuel craft registered)? nephele: it's kind of a shame that the number of crafting types is fixed nephele: sfan5, I mean for instance too, most gamemodes have wood, so a crafting recipe involving wood could use a group for that crafting nephele: it doesn't need to rely on the specific nodenames that are in mtg sfan5: yes GreenXenith: You could just roll your own crafting system nephele: but a compatible implementation can check a known good source of the crafting groups that are expected sfan5: doesn't that already work? I've seen several mods that use group:wood nephele: sfan5, yes, but there is still no spec for it nephele: if any other game wants basic compatibility with mtg they have to go dig around inn mtgs source nephele: and that isn't really pleasent imo... sfan5: sounds like it should be documented in game_api.txt then nephele: I don't have that file sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/game_api.txt nephele: That's full of mtg specific stuff, for a "base target" if you will it would make more sense to have it outside mtg and have mtg implement it sfan5: I didn't say that it is the base target you propose sfan5: just that this would be the place where MTG could document its node and item groups for easy cross-game compatibility nephele: That is then again everyone chasing mtg nephele: it's not really a base target sfan5: nobody said that? nephele: You said it would be good to put in game_api.txt nephele: I don't think it fits the goal to have more compatibiltiy anyhow nephele: Some names might make sense to take straight from mtg now, but if they are too specific they may not make any sense for other games anymore sfan5: I said that it would be good to put documentation on which groups MTG uses in game_api.txt nephele: as an unrelated comment? nephele: i guess sfan5: sfan5, yes, but there is still no spec for it sfan5: if any other game wants basic compatibility with mtg they have to go dig around inn mtgs source sfan5: ??? nephele: There is no baseline spec nephele: You need to define which groups you can use, as a baseline, nobody is going to implement everything game_api.txt sais into their own subgame, that is too big a target VanessaE: it almost sounds as if you want some of mtg's content moved to the engine and renamed/grouped in some generic, less-descript way? nephele: No, it has no place in the engine nephele: That statement makes me wonder though, whether you actually read anything i have written this far sfan5: nephele: my comment is entirely unrelated to your baseline spec propoal, but it is in direct response to you pointing out that MTG (specifically) has no documentation on its groups VanessaE: I have, and you are being utterly unclear nephele: moving files around wont help for compatibility, mod authors need a good target to shoot at, if it's too much trouble to use a common subset they just wont (as you can observe now), and game authors need a damn good description of what they are supposed to implement as a baseline VanessaE: wtf is a "baseline spec"? wtf do you want mtg to "implement" such that another game could also "implement" in a compatible way? nephele: "what the fuck do you want minetest game to implement such that another game could also implement in a compatible way" VanessaE: I mean look... nephele: could you rephrase this in english? sfan5: basic things such as: you have nodes made out of something {stone,wood,dirt,fluid}-like, items that are flammable/cookable, maybe generalized minerals? sfan5: I'd assume VanessaE: mtg has stone, mineclone2 has stone (I assume). the two have a footstep sound. the two have, I dunno, sun and moon textures or something sfan5: that might still be too specific if you were to make a space game on a moon though nephele: In some places the engine could absolutely provide some better apis for cross-gamemode compatibility, but it shouldn't implement anything of mtg nephele: sfan5, at some point you gott to have a cutoff, there is only so much compatibility you can have before you need explicit support VanessaE: so what's so wrong with using mtg's file/function/item names internally for those things? or alising them? VanessaE: aliasing* nephele: MTG is a moving target and has no api gurantees VanessaE: Jesus fuck, man, MTG IS NOT A MOVING TARGET nephele: Yes it is VanessaE: then how come all of my mods work fine on it? nephele: what? VanessaE: some of my mods have code so old they'd still be able to run on 0.4.0 :P nephele: so what? VanessaE: (if not for the fact that I occasionally take advantage of new features as they become available) sfan5: nephele is correct that MTG has no stability guarantees, but in practice nothing (of significance?) has been removed EVER VanessaE: is that not the very definition of a stable API? that code written for the oldest version still works in the newest? nephele: My game wont run on mt lower than 5.1.0, i deliberately broke compatibility, but that is beside the point sfan5: and if something were to be removed you'd likely meet resistance from the devs, their intention being to enforce this informal rule nephele: I am not going to implement every fucking node in mtg, and especially not every random api call they have nephele: I am perfectly willing to implement some crafting groups and some node aliases, sure, but not the entire fucking game sfan5: I don't think anyone is suggesting that appguru: Backwards compatibility should be kept to some extend, but sometimes things need to change nephele: and then having to catch up with every change VanessaE: sfan5: yes, and I won't debate that particular point. but a lack of an official, sanctioned guarantee does not make the game API unstable or "moving target" appguru: Are we talking about MTG? nephele: Yes VanessaE: appguru: no. sfan5: appguru: logs are in the topic nephele: specifically corss-game compatibility where mods only work on mtg currently VanessaE: appguru: we're talking about how mineclone2 isn't compatible with mods meant for minetest_game and somehow that's the mods' or mtg's fault. sfan5: VanessaE: it certainly is a moving target if you are aiming for (almost) full compatibility sfan5: I hope nobody does that, though nephele: VanessaE, what?? nephele: If that is your gist than you didn't understand anything i said VanessaE: sfan5: I wouldn't think a game that aims to be a Minecraft clone would seek to keep up with mtg's content? appguru: I always go for latest stability with my mods. appguru: (each of my mods is meant to work with the latest version of other mods) sfan5: nephele: so why not take some basic nodes MTG has and add aliases to your game? do you fear that you'll have to keep changing them? VanessaE: did I not suggest that like, an hour ago? VanessaE: :P appguru: that's a good point appguru: you should probably make that configurable nephele: sfan5, absolutely not appguru: probably even using an additional mod, mtg_compat which can be enabled if desired nephele: I am not digging through mtgs code and implementing support for some nodes at random and hoping that will give me compatibility nephele: because it will not nephele: i now have mods that are only 5 errors instead of 12, and nothing gained, still completely unuseable appguru: you should always have the mods in mind you which your mods are meant to be compatible with nephele: unless there is a baseline that mod authors can actually target when they wish to be cross-game compatible there is nothing to do nephele: except for trying to implement mtg fully, which i am not willing to so appguru: there is something to do appguru: there are quite some API mods out there appguru: those are your "baselines" appguru: MTG's player_api is a good example nephele: appguru, and again, nobody was talking about those GreenXenith: Except when you have 4 API mods that all do the same thing sfan5: so you want a base specification of some set amount of nodes/items (that MTG also has), which when implemented guarantees that random mods will work with your game? appguru: This does not belong into the engine though. sfan5: at least that's what I gather from the fact that you don't want partial support(?) VanessaE: appguru: well at least I addressed that with things like basic_materials, signs_lib, biome_lib, ... :) appguru: (y) nephele: sfan5, Whether mtg now does or does not have nodes is pretty irrelevant, there should be some crafting groups that i can knowingly implement, against which mod authors can test and be reasonably sure that their mod will be somewhat compatible nephele: a baseline, if you will.... appguru: The engine already has too much game-specific stuff IMO. It should've been a generic voxel game engine. sfan5: I guarantee you many relevant mods will need feature XYZ that isn't in that "baseline" and you're back at square one with compatibility nephele: At the moment, as a mod author, it's pretty damn impossible to make your mod compatible with most subgames unless you spend hours hunting for version specific nodes in each one and hope they line up nephele: sfan5, so what? appguru: depends on the mods you're making nephele: I don't have to give a shit about mods that don't care about compatibility, they wont now and they wont then nephele: appguru, Absolutely, Not beeing able to make my mod properly portable is the sole reason i made my mod into a gamemode appguru: if those subgames using common libraries then there is no issue nephele: ITS STILL NOT ABOUT LIBRARIES sfan5: I don't understand this VanessaE: yet you expect some mods to deliberately be compatible with MC2? sfan5: when it's about implementing random nodes from MTG, you complain that mod compatibility won't be good enough so it's still unusable GreenXenith: appguru, they are talking about items. Libraries cant help with items (generally). VanessaE: what about the 47 bazillion other games out there? sfan5: when it's about features missing from a potential "baseline" specification, suddenly you don't have to care about mod compatibility nephele: Yes nephele: Mod authors can care aslong as they have something to target VanessaE: THEY HAVE. nephele: if they can't target anything they can't care nephele: VanessaE, no they dont appguru: Item compatibility? Not that hard. Aliases are one approach. VanessaE: they have had something reasonable to target since 0.4.0 came out. VanessaE: and that was ...8? years ago? appguru: Others are restructuring your code to not work using itemnames but rather groups for example. GreenXenith: appguru, read the logs please nephele: VanessaE, and again, it's not about the mt api... GreenXenith: this has already been discussed nephele: appguru, ugh nephele: It waas about item groups already sfan5: nephele: I believe what she means is that minetest_game has been a stable target since 0.4.0 nephele: but again, no gurantee, nobody has written down, or knows what an expected subset of groups is VanessaE: nephele: mt API != mtg API; so what IS it about? nephele: VanessaE, Cross-gamemode compatibility of third-party mods ffs appguru: we don't need business-level guarantees for a game :P VanessaE: sfan5: indeed. VanessaE: nephele: so I reiterate, nephele: sfan5, minetest game is an irrelevant target because i can't implement it VanessaE: [04-24 19:26] yet you expect some mods to deliberately be compatible with MC2? VanessaE: [04-24 19:26] what about the 47 bazillion other games out there? appguru: APIs change just like item names, and your mods will have to change as well appguru: Deal with it nephele: so it's unuseable a sa baseling sfan5: nobody is saying it's usable as baseline sfan5: or that you should implement 100% nephele: Exactly, it isn't nephele: appguru, are we speaking the same language? appguru: > The engine already has too much game-specific stuff. sfan5: the reality is though if you implement the right subset of maybe 50 nodes/items, most mods will work just fine appguru: oof nephele: Okay...? VanessaE: now I'm starting to get a little pissed off... appguru: > are we speaking the same language? sfan5: the only problem with this is that there is no documentation on what to implement nephele: good that we werent talking about the engine then appguru: probably not nephele: sfan5, yes... GreenXenith: VE, you're always a little pissed off :) nephele: what i have been saying for the last fucking hour appguru: that was a copy & paste issue, for context appguru: is that you want good standards? VanessaE: GreenXenith: not always, you're thinking of Bruce Banner :P GreenXenith: Fair 'nuff nephele: sfan5, "the reality is though if you implement the right subset of maybe 50 nodes/items, most mods will work just fine" sfan5: nephele: what I gathered is that you specifically taking issue in there not being a baseline and that (anything with MTG) couldn't possibly work nephele: That's not true, each game will implement a different subset sfan5: but it appears the last is not actually an issue appguru: I agree with nephele that we need some more specifications VanessaE: sfan5: it almost sounds like he wants some mtg stuff split off into an out-of-game mod? nephele: without a sense of direction or guidance you won't attain any meaningfull compatibility sfan5: VanessaE: not split, just documented VanessaE: sfan5: except he was talking about implementation as well, not just the API appguru: good example is Wuzzy's #9606 - that thing focuses on HUD element z indexes, but we'd need similar conventions for item names VanessaE: s/API/documentation of contents/ sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9606 -- [discuss] Come up with a convention for HUD element z_index nephele: VanessaE, of course i was talking about implementations! I am a literall gamemode author, i have opinions on this nephele: and i think sticking my hand into mtg and implementing what bit me is not a good aproach appguru: Only convention that I remember from the top of my head is that itemnames should always be `category_type` for meaningful sorting (like `sword_steel` instead of the intuitive `steel_sword`) GreenXenith: Literal game author as opposed to .. a figurative one? :D sfan5: nephele: what one considers "meaningful compatibility" is up to the game author, it's true that a potential baseline has strictly better compatibility yet I think it's realistic to implement a subset of MTG to achieve good enough compatibility nephele: GreenXenith, absolutely :D appguru: what is a figurative game author supposed to be? nephele: sfan5, again, no it isn't, each gamemode will pick a different subset, and as a mod author you still can't target anything meaningfull sfan5: well okay if you believe it isn't then it is not for you GreenXenith: A figurative game author probably makes imaginary games :^) nephele: sfan5, what is? implementing mtg compat? sfan5: "implement a subset of MTG to achieve good enough compatibility" < this nephele: It won't work without a known subset appguru: MTG does not belong into the engine nephele: specifically picking a random subset won't work sfan5: depends on your definition of "work" sfan5: but evidently you believe that it can't work nephele: appguru, yes, you said so before, and again, nobody is talking about the engine appguru: but it seemed so, or where else do you expect this to be implemented if not in MTG? nephele: sfan5, if you have a known set of nodes and crafting groups that games claim to implement any incompatibility resulting from this is a bug you can adress nephele: if you just pick a random subset then the mod author is the one that has to test and add exceptions for every gamemode appguru: On a side note: I think MTG should be reorganized, with each mod getting it's own repo & MTG effectively becoming a collection of submodules GreenXenith: Hmm. appguru mentioned API mods and everyone said it wasnt relevant .. but one could create a compatibility-layer mod with a compiled index of multiple games' items all linked to categories that could be optionally used by mods that wish to have complete compat. nephele: appguru, implement what? appguru: A common item layer, also known as CLI. GreenXenith: A Command Line Interface? Nono ;) nephele: .... you know minetest has crafting groups...... riiight? appguru: I do VanessaE: so, again, split some of mtg into a separate, out-of-game mod that both it and MC2 would import and use. VanessaE: that's clearly what you're asking for. nephele: No that's stupid GreenXenith: What is the usecase of all this discussion? appguru: That isn't stupid at all nephele: Yes it is nephele: Mtg is gpl, i can't use that appguru: VanessaE is totally right: common dependencies shouldn't be split off nephele: I also fail to see what you have against documentation VanessaE: how else do you expect to establish a baseline? appguru: * should be sfan5: VanessaE: via a specification VanessaE: sfan5: which has to be implemented.... in a mod. appguru: yeah, like Wuzzy's issue: a convention written down in the docs nephele: VanessaE, no it doesn't VanessaE: and most of that implementation could easily come from mtg sfan5: no not that way GreenXenith: What is being solved here? I saw MTG and MCL2 mentioned .. is nephele trying to make a mod that works with both without having to manually defined which items to depend on from each game? GreenXenith: -d sfan5: you specify " 'default:stone' should be a solid, stone-like node " sfan5: MTG and MCL2 can (and should) both implement this in their own way VanessaE: sfan5: well, what good is a specification if you don't *implement* it? nephele: GreenXenith, I maintain a gamemode for minetest, i would like to implement atleast a subset so mod authors can target this subset to atleast have a fairly good compatibility across gammodes sfan5: with zero common properties other than what the specificiation say sfan5: you do not literally need the same stone node in both mtg and mcl2 appguru: I'd say the fault is probably at the fault of the games which are not taking MTG as baseline VanessaE: and if you implement it once, why not re-use that implementation wherever possible? nephele: sfan5, something like that, i wouldn't pick the default: name though for obvious reasons appguru: You should contact their authors and ask them to change item names appguru: Or provide a compatibility layer sfan5: VanessaE: because not every game should be variant of MTG sfan5: that would be kinda boring GreenXenith: Games should not be based on MTG at all nephele: appguru, uhm, yeah no, i have no interest, whatsoever to follow mtgs idiotic naming conventions and implementing it appguru: Nu VanessaE: sfan5: sure, I get that, but it's still e.g. "default:stone"... appguru: MTG's naming conventions aren't that idiotic GreenXenith: Down with MTG conventions! appguru: Problem is, everyone thinks the other's conventions are idiotic nephele: VanessaE, it would likely be more like group:solid_stone or something appguru: So in the end you have no baseline :') nephele: or a different name appguru: cracky? GreenXenith: So what I said earlier: A single item compatibility layer can totally be used to accomplish this goal. appguru: but coming back GreenXenith: MTG is a good base appguru: you just have to use it properly VanessaE: nephele: in other words, everything should be rewritten to never use an actual node/item name, but a group name. VanessaE: (in recipes et al.) nephele: VanessaE, not neccesarily? that was an example appguru: if using MTG mods as submodules, everything is fine VanessaE: well that's the only way your "specification" is ever gonna work in reality. nephele: No nephele: Crafting groups are not neccesary nephele: you could use aliases just aswel GreenXenith: I dont want my games touch MTG with a 39.5-foot pole appguru: I'm just sort of annoyed by games just copy & pasting MTG, which will end up with a buggy version in a few years as they don't pull in updates and often make custom modifications which result in merge conflicts if they try to... GreenXenith: to touch* VanessaE: nephele: and I suggested aliases ages ago. appguru: There are some games which clearly shouldn't touch MTG nephele: VanessaE, okay...? nephele: still has nothing to do with a baseline spec appguru: Such as my Cellestial Game (and a 2nd one in the planning) VanessaE: except aliases won't work eithe, because they still have to reference a single, specific node. VanessaE: +r appguru: nephele: write your spec, publish it, and see if it's approved nephele: Where is the problem in that? nephele: appguru, aproved by whom? appguru: the modding community which will have to use it VanessaE: so your back to your spec and '"default:stone" should be etc etc' as sfan5 put it appguru: I'd say go to MT Forum if that wasn't 500ing appguru: Else you'll end up with builtin mechanisms which are unsupported, and eventually people will be rolling their own anyways nephele: VanessaE, yeah the spec would say "awesome:stone stone used for $blah", and then i can implement it in a mod called awesome aliasing names to my gamemodes specific node names appguru: (unsupported as in, modders dislike) VanessaE: nephele: ok, and what of all the mods out there that DON'T use this new spec you're wanting? nephele: what of them? appguru: death VanessaE: they're still incompatible with MC2? nephele: yeah, so? VanessaE: so again, you're asking mod authors to make changes just so their mods work with MC2 VanessaE: I mean literally, you're the only one asking for this nephele: where did you read that? appguru: I usually just go for MTG compat VanessaE: for this spec* appguru: mod authors will be afraid to change item names VanessaE: [04-24 18:43] mineclone2 does not implement the default mod VanessaE: [04-24 18:44] either the mobs mod shoudl explicitly support it, or a compat layer may be used (i don't know of any though...) nephele: It's a tool for mod authors to target something that gives them a broad range of compatibility (within certain restrictions) VanessaE: I read "it" as "MC2" in that comment. appguru: nephele: are you suggesting we all go for MCL2 compat? nephele: I think i am suggesting, that you fucking read my messages instead of making up bullshit VanessaE: all right, that's enough of that. nephele: VanessaE, that reffered to now anyhow, there is no spec VanessaE: stand down, nephele GreenXenith: I see no issue with rolling your own compat .. registering different recipes based on what mods are available is easy and viable nephele: there is nothing for mineclone2 to implement, so either it implements default compat now, or one uses a compat layer appguru: "shoudl explicitly support it", with it being MCL2, which is why my question nephele: but again, i dont know of any compat layers appguru: you could go and write one? nephele: GreenXenith, the issue is still that it's extremely high effort to try and make a perfect mtg compat nephele: a base spec would atleast give you a baseline appguru: actually not nephele: VanessaE, from where? appguru: MTG compat is pretty easy nephele: No it isn't appguru: Item names of MTG are mostly straightforward appguru: Same goes for the API nephele: It's still a huge set VanessaE: look, the bottom line is there are mods you obviously wish you could use under MC2, but which don't work with it. Either the mods have to be rewritten to add MC2 compat, or to use some "common" spec such as you propose. nephele: Which you would have to map in it's entirety to another gamemode nephele: sure? but the common spec doesn't exist currently VanessaE: or MC2 has to be altered to offer enough compatibility that those mods work. GreenXenith: Provided you have similar materials in each game (which most a lot do), it should be fairly low-effort VanessaE: and I can almost guarantee you that asking the rest of us to make out mods work on MC2 won't fly. nephele: VanessaE, it's an optional tool GreenXenith: (I think a compat layer mod seems like a reasonable idea ...) nephele: if you care about it you can use it VanessaE: I know I won't bother on my mods, I have WAY too much code to change to make that happen. nephele: if you don't care, develop for mtg and be happy LMD: Games are different, so having such a "baseline spec" is not easy, and in general achieving consensus among modders nephele: Well, it's not going to be a "baseline for all gamemodes in minetest" think GreenXenith: If a compat layer existed, modders should either use it and not care about what it decides to do, or make their own item maps VanessaE: so the only thing that's gonna happen in reality is if you or some of your partners-in-code fork those desirable mods, alter them, and then maintain them as the originals continue to evolve nephele: GreenXenith, Having a specification gives game authors much less overhead to implement nephele: and gives you a pretty good thing to point at VanessaE: so then again you're back to the "moving target" you complain of nephele: VanessaE, no, why? LMD: if this continues I'll probably write a spec & implement relevant compatibility mappings nephele: I don't require mods to work on all gamemodes nephele: and most won't VanessaE: but clearly there are some you DO want GreenXenith: a compat layer would be extremely easy to write .. in fact, you could leave out the implementation and make a mod dedicated to providing just item mapping data nephele: Yes, my mods nephele: I want to offer them to be used on other gamemodes aswell LMD: The real solution is to have stuff like recipes not inside the code but instead inside of configuration files VanessaE: yet you complained that mobs_redo doesn't work nephele: No i dind't LMD: Mods can and should provide decent default configurations, but if those don't suffice, users can extend them nephele: That was in reference to an earlier comment nephele: I don't plan to use mobs redo nephele: and i don't playe mineclone2 either VanessaE: correction, scott_ complained. nephele: I only attempted to explain why it was incompatible and a possible mitigation for that moement orbea: nephele: so you basically want something like the POSIX spec, but for minetest? LMD: Someone should probably write a spec nephele: the discussion about a possible baseline spec came after that and is mostly unrelated, except that it is about compatibility VanessaE: no matter how you choose to "mitigate" this, nephele, SOMEONE will have to rewrite a bunch of mod code, even if it's only you LMD: true VanessaE: and if only you are gonna use i, what's the point of this spec VanessaE: it* nephele: so :) i can spend my time how i wish nephele: A spec allows other people to be compatibile without having to dig around in my code LMD: the point of the spec would be that modders don't invent item names and groups as they wish, but instead use common groups & names specified in the spec VanessaE: you know full well no one who maintains a big project is gonna bother with that. nephele: it's way easier to read a doc outlining the expectations than trying to be compatible by copying implemnetations or even implemnetation bugs GreenXenith: If you had an item map, you could automate rewriting >.> nephele: No, that is your assumption LMD: I suggest advanced alias methods VanessaE: and it has a high probability of being right :P nephele: No, that is your assumption :P LMD: for example registering alias groups ssieb: I have a world where fire doesn't work. Even disabling all the mods and just leaving minetest_game doesn't fix it. But another world does work. ssieb: fire just disappears. If I use the flint and steel, there's a brief flash of the fire, then it disappears. fire is enabled in settings. Any ideas? ssieb: There are no errors or warnings when all the other mods are disabled. tf2ftw: Hello. Is contentdb the primary source for mods and etc? I feel like I see a lot stuff out there not in Contentdb... orbea: tf2ftw: i try to grab them from the source repo tf2ftw: orbea, but where do you find them? Is it mostly in the forum? orbea: forum, contentdb, and ddg orbea: usually that leads to the source tf2ftw: whats ddg? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Camera: Fix shootline line offsets II (#9730) 13ce5b093 https://git.io/JfIgX (152020-04-23T10:16:36Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04luk3yx -> 03minetest/minetest: Add LevelDB auth database. (#9476) 13914dbea https://git.io/JfI21 (152020-04-23T11:07:19Z) jas_: !server jastest MinetestBot: jas_: jastest | jastest.duckdns.org | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 5.3.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 133ms jas_: hi rschulman: How hard would it be to change the default formspec look and feel? nephele: rschulman, that depends on what you wish to acomplish rubenwardy: rschulman: we're in the process of improving the styling support rubenwardy: you can change the formspec background and button styles rubenwardy: styling support for other things is still limited rubenwardy: see "set_formspec_prepend" and "Styling Formspecs" in lua_api.txt rschulman: TBH - I'd love for a UI/UX expert (which I am really not) to look at the generic transparent borderless box that minetest uses and see if there's a better/nicer design language. rschulman: I think the transparency makes it hard to look at because the eye is constantly confused by the background. rschulman: The borderlessness on top of that makes it hard for the eye to tell where the UI ends. tf2ftw: hi. where are the local log files stored? I've installed from the dev ppa rubenwardy: ~/.minetest/debug.txr rubenwardy: -r+t rubenwardy: starting with a . means hidden tf2ftw: thanks tf2ftw: I'm trying to debug this error tf2ftw: ERROR[Server]: unable to find map for 140718160969729 tf2ftw: not sure which mod is creating it rubenwardy: Weird tf2ftw: Interesting, its only that position that it cant find. "140718160969729" rubenwardy: Perhaps search for "unable to find map" in the mods sir? tf2ftw: good idea tf2ftw: and we have a winner tf2ftw: ./luscious/init.lua: minetest.log("error", "unable to find map for " .. string.format("%d", p)) tf2ftw: thanks for the idea tf2ftw: for the record, looks like the error was caused by including the mod _after_ the map was generated. Makes sense. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fall back to sqlite3 if no backend set in world.mt 1392f6b05 https://git.io/JfIX3 (152020-04-23T15:23:05Z) rschulman: rubenwardy: Do you have a link to where the work on the styling is going on? rubenwardy: It's GitHub rubenwardy: see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues?q=is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc+label%3AFormspec+ rubenwardy: or narrow it down with style: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues?q=is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc+label%3AFormspec+style rschulman: Thanks! yrungr: hi. minetest is single core right? rubenwardy: no rubenwardy: yrungr: minetest runs in multiple threads, but a lot of the work is done in two main threads Krock: rubenwardy: that's a yes for single core. One executable cannot use more than one core rubenwardy: oh right, I read "thread" rather than core Krock: or rather.. one instance of the executable Krock: relevant for yrungr ^ Krock: yrungr: FYI an E8500 + GTX 550 Ti (2008/2011) is enough to get smooth 60 FPS in most cases, but it really depends on the map and complexity of the models/tiles to render. Stronger single-core = better experience yrungr: cool. thanks for the info. :) tf2ftw: Is it possible to increase the number of mob spawns? Seems like they are few and far between MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Panquesito7 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: beds: Use `player_api` functions instead of `default` (#2654) 1381c5b6b https://git.io/JfIdd (152020-04-23T20:19:58Z) Zughy: whenever a mod is available, can he/she check the mods in the move request topic? :( Zughy: (please) orbea: tf2ftw: with mobs_redo check settingtypes.txt orbea: # Contains a value used to multiply Mob spawn values orbea: mob_chance_multiplier (Mob chance multiplier) float 1.0 _Zaizen_: is there a way to stop a set_pos() at the very time it finds an obstacle? tf2ftw: orbea, thanks tf2ftw: orbea, is the settingstypes.txt where you change the settings or is that just more for info? sfan5: settingtypes.txt is just for info tf2ftw: sfan5, thanks freelikegnu: is there a way to get a flat face to have the one "pixel" depth that wielded and dropped items have? sfan5: a flat face where? freelikegnu: animated model sfan5: if you're using a model you have full control over the rendered faces freelikegnu: my model is made meshes, but I made a single square face for a tool freelikegnu: on which i put the default_tool_stonepick.png freelikegnu: of couse its just a single sided face so its only seen where the normal is visible freelikegnu: I was curions if there was a texture setting that would "extrude" that image like wielded and dropped items are sfan5: not that I know of freelikegnu: https://imgur.com/gallery/EA5CmUm freelikegnu: hmm can I attach a registered tool to a mob? guzzi: Peppy, I am sure with all the people off for quarantine the server is overloaded. guzzi: ForestRanger ^ FrostRanger: guzzi: that would figure, although I am glad that more people are finding this wonderful game :) FrostRanger: btw, does anyone know how to get a texture pack working server-side FrostRanger: I want to use sharpnet on my server guzzi: FrostRanger, yeah my daughter likes it a lot better because I can turn the zombies off and they aren't as scary. guzzi: we setup a server at home here and she loves building little buildings for me. guzzi: Today she built an ice rink FrostRanger: guzzi: that sounds awesome :) FrostRanger: there really should be an ice skating mod (although I think ice is slipery now) guzzi: i am using smart inventory and 3d_armor. I don't see a way to put on the armor. guzzi: I am using this version: https://github.com/mt-mods/3d_armor.git guzzi: oh i need armor.conf guzzi: meh that says deprecated guzzi: ah i see. customize yourself FrostRanger: guzzi: armor.conf should still work ShadowNinja: Minetest is kinda playable with llvmpipe software rendering (~30FPS as long as you don't use shaders... LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1). The builtin software/burningsvideo renderers also work but are very buggy. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to make much use of modern video cards: I can't get it to use more than 40% of my GPU even when I load the game down to until it drops to ~40FPS. oil_boi: ShadowNinja, yes, I don't see over 30% of my GPU usage oil_boi: The fps setting for in game and paused is 55555 in my settings, which gets me around 120-500 FPS, at a 140 view range, but the GPU usage in the windows task manager shows 52% even at that ridiculous setting oil_boi: With this setup Minetest should be running in the 2000-3000FPS range with those settings oil_boi: With mipmapping enabled it likes to hover around 250-450 on average _Zaizen_: Hi everyone. I would like to know if there is a way to modify the way a player get damaged so that if he has an object in his inventory he is immortal and if he doesn't have it he get damaged in the normal way. _Zaizen_: At the moment I do some checks on the inventory of the players to see if they have it and it act in different ways based on that. The problem is that adding a lot of ifs in the code make it hard to understand to everyone and it's harder to add features later. sfan5: use minetest.register_on_player_hpchange and cancel all damamge that should not happen? sfan5: alternative you can set the armor group immortal=1 on the player _Zaizen_: Ok thank you. I need the player to be already immune because the weapon i have deal an infinite amount of damage and it would kill the player instantly Daisae: Does it need to be 'infinite damage' rather than extremely high damage? _Zaizen_ _Zaizen_: Actually it's an extremely high damage. oil_boi: How does one get all loaded mods? NetherEran: minetest.get_modnames() oil_boi: Thanks Daisae: Someone know an example of a level 2 snappy thing (to be mined/harvested)? sfan5: ./mods/default/nodes.lua: groups = {snappy = 2, dig_immediate = 3, flammable = 2, sfan5: hm this doesn't really make ense sfan5: sense* NetherEran: wool, saplings NetherEran: if they're not overridden somewhere Daisae: What do you mean by saplings? If I put a sapling in the ground, I pick it up immediately. NetherEran: in the code they have snappy = 2, but also dig_immediate = 3 Daisae: Wool I can mine by hand and hand only does 3 Daisae: I don't see a point of snappy=2 combined with dig_immediate. Daisae: -- when immediate can be by a level 3 tool (hand). Daisae: If it were immediate but only by a level 2 tool, that could make sense. sfan5: yeah I don't see why that was done either NetherEran: diamond and mese swords do break it faster that way Daisae: A diamond sword would not be immediate with saplings snappy=3 and dig_immediate? NetherEran: it is, I think that's because dig_immediate is a special group NetherEran: the doc says that a player can always pick it up and without reducing tool wear Daisae: But I can pick it up immediately and without tool wear using a wooden sword. NetherEran: yes, but having the other groups might still be useful for mods that have to decide which nodes a mob or a machine can break adfeno: Hi there, in the mod profiler reports, does "instrumentation" == "*" means: (a) "the entire mod"; (b) 'the rest of the mod, discarding the other named instrumentations of same "modname" ' ? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: minetest.serialize: Reversible number serialization (#9722) 135355cb1 https://git.io/JfkdL (152020-04-22T14:43:48Z) oil_boi: How does one even get the data from get_bone_position? It's returning two tables sfan5: what's the issue with that? adfeno: Hi there, in the mod profiler reports, what does "instrumentation" == "*" mean? (a) "the entire mod"; (b) 'the rest of the mod, discarding the other named instrumentations of same "modname" ' ? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: add OpenGL ES 2 support (#9715) 136ba44d7 https://git.io/JfkpK (152020-04-22T18:03:46Z) Krock: Does not resolve #5929, though. ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5929 -- Undersampling doesn't work on OpenGL 1.X or Android 4.X whtemple1959: hello, I just upgraded to version 5.2 and I seem to have lost the the technical information which was in the upper left corner of the screen. How do I get it back? rubenwardy: you can press F5 whtemple1959: thank you. the description on the control wiki page led me to believe f5 gave different information. whtemple1959: is there any world edit experts in the room? whtemple1959: I am attempting to build a farm. I have a "plot" with soil and water ready for planting. I would like to save the area and then load it into another sectio around my home but when I do it orients in the same directio as the original. how do I get it to rotate 90 degrees? sfan5: rotate it after placing it sfan5: if the space doesn't fit load it somewhere into the air (or whereever free space is) and save again whtemple1959: thank you sfan5 but I would rather not have to rebuild my living room again, so I would like to rotate it before I place it in the world. but placing it in the air first and then rotating it is a viable option but then how do I lower it down to the ground? sfan5: well you can either //move it or just save the rotated area and load it normall where you want to place it in the end sfan5: normally* whtemple1959: sfan5, stupid me I had forgotten about the move function. I am off to practice those maneuvers. thank you so much for the advice. Two brains are better than one and yours is much better than mine. thanks again to you and rubenwardy. adfeno: Hi there, in the mod profiler reports, what does "instrumentation" == "*" mean? (a) "the entire mod"; (b) 'the rest of the mod, discarding the other named instrumentations of same "modname" ' ? _Zaizen_: can "\n" and "\t" have the same percentage of space in pixel in any HUD? Because apparently right now they change from screen to screen so that a HUD looks fine in some resolution but off in another sfan5: that's obviously dependent on font size _Zaizen_: Yeah, but how can I adapt it with the screen size. Does the size of the font remain the same in every screen size? sfan5: by default, the font size is scaled by screen dpi sfan5: the user can also change the font manually but you can't really account for that _Zaizen_: Oh, thanks. I guess I will have to find another way to fix this. whtemple1959: sfan5 I simply want to thank you again. It was wonderful following your advice. I now have my farm up and running. now if I could only modify the technic injectors I would be in heaven for a few days. again thank you... you do rock adfeno: Hi there, in the mod profiler reports, how to interpret rows with "instrumentation" == "*" ? (a) as "the entire mod", or; (b) as "the rest of the mod" (discarding the other named instrumentations of same "modname") ? sfan5: adfeno: I think nobody knows at this point sfan5: but maybe if you pastebin the profiler output I can make a guess adfeno: OK adfeno: Just a moment adfeno: sfan5: https://suchat.org:5443/upload/3586bb7814549ab098d533e66221566f3bb51cab/CqkBxU8pQfTnP2RoNdh6lJYTEHZZwl9SrjVdfq42/AtCraft_Minetest_profiles.tar.gz sfan5: oh it's csv I believe I actually saw that in th ecode sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/builtin/profiler/reporter.lua#L168 sfan5: I would assume "mod_stats" contains the sums sfan5: wait no that doesn't add up sfan5: adfeno: it's the sum of all times for the mod adfeno: sfan5: re: profiler csv: so it corresponds to all the instruments described in the same modname, or does it include something else not listed there? sfan5: all listed adfeno: Ah I see, thanks :D hisforever: Hi whats the /set time_speed for a day is it 72? ANAND: There used to be something resembling an LOD system sometime earlier, but it was removed soon after it was added. I can't seem to find the commit for that... oil_boi: ANAND, there was a lot of stuff that was useful that's incompatible with today's api oil_boi: It's a curse, and a blessing DrFrankenstone: oil_boi, since you're requiring a recent MT version, you can put node_cave_liquid = "air" in your nether biome definition and get rid of the random floating water/lava oil_boi: Thanks DrFrankenstone, you fixed the nether, void, and aether https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/commit/2bf402aeb30f5b3cd0a047677b257043318f893d oil_boi: I couldn't find that variable DrFrankenstone: param added it quite recently - sometime before mt 5.2 I think. I used it in a minetest-mods/nether PR DrFrankenstone: *paramat oil_boi: My ctrl + F searches aren't very effective at all, but rereading the entire doc is also extremely inefficient. It's like there's not an easy way to find what you're specifically looking for. The only way is to get lucky and lock it in your memory. I mean, this isn't a complaint and that's just how rolling release works. It's just a bit overwhelming at times oil_boi: But fixing that would require adding a bunch of keywords and probably 1000+ lines of text to the doc so I'll just keep doing my lucky searches oil_boi: And with your help keeping track of stuff like that, it's extremely helpful, so thank you DrFrankenstone: haha, I saw your Nether portal stuff and was like "wait, client side mods are a thing now? Is that a 5.3 feature?" Then I ctrl+f "client", see nothing and wonder how you found out about all that DrFrankenstone: doh, today I learned "client_lua_api.txt" is a thing oil_boi: Yeah man, without that the portal, double tap running, weather, and such would be an absolute mess oil_boi: Some things need the client to work properly oil_boi: Clientside modding is ULTRA extremely useful and it is painful to see that a lot of modders do not understand it oil_boi: I mean, why render anything at all clientside when the server can do it? Hahahahaha oil_boi: You can also do a payload distribution like I do with the player input, splash sounds, scary sounds, and weather particle effects. Getting a stomach ache thinking of the server step time that used to cost attempting that completely in server without distributing processing power oil_boi: This does leave PLENTY of room for hacking, but it's extremely easy to program fixes into it. One easy one with the way I do the implementation is always run. Hunger is the easy fix. oil_boi: You can always code around clientside mods server side because they always have the final say and control oil_boi: Hell, you can even check if a player is using XRAY by checking the frequency of their mining of iron, gold, diamond, redstone to see if it's unrealistic oil_boi: I looked into it and you can do the ore scarcity multiplied by run distance per node and then check frequency per node, may be EXTREMELY useful when I port this to a multiplayer mod who0: Hi guys, I'm trying to use "minetestmapper" + "leafletjs" to generate html5/interactive map. Have you got a tips/tricks to generete tils ? DrFrankenstone: music is another one that's hobbled when it's server-side Verticen: oil_boi lol u could hav ores explode players determined to be using x-ray oil_boi: Ooooo, a clientside music handler. Great idea, lemme add it to the notes. And yes, that could be a solution. I'm actually relieved by the fact that rubenwardy's fix solved the extreme glitches clientside so once I get everything in I can test it in a local server then move to Beta. It was having issues telling me constantly that the client was moving too fast because error 23 DrFrankenstone: where does the 23 in error 23 come from? You have a private list somewhere? DrFrankenstone: also, while I'm asking questions, where did the nick oil_boi come from? oil_boi: It was talked about above, apparently it's from the client not being initialized before joining a mod channel, was fixed by rubenwardy by adding in the check for minetest.localplayer oil_boi: DrFrankenstone, I'm a ford, GM, mercedes, subaru, geo, toyota, honda, and vw mechanic oil_boi: I got oily before the lockdown so, oil_boi :D DrFrankenstone: ah, cheers. oil_boi: mercedes are the worst of them all DrFrankenstone: as cars, or for servicing? oil_boi: Extremely reliable, but once something breaks, good luck oil_boi: I had this one 190e I had to rebuild the entire subframe components and redo the vacuum hardline to the intake valve and it was something else oil_boi: I've literally never seen so many vacuum lines redundant in my entire life oil_boi: The older than 1994 mercedes are the best, but they like to rust and they're extremely hard to get parts for in the states oil_boi: Also DrFrankenstone some mercedes are ultra extremely hard to service especially if they're auto. The easiest car I've found is a Crown Victoria P7B Police Interceptor, nevermind that it's fast and can seem to take turns at triple the speed limit, that's why I bought and rebuilt one oil_boi: It feels like it's on the new D2C platform instead of the Panther, it's nuts, a 4900 pound car should not be able to go 0-60 in 14.78 seconds oil_boi: Oh wait, I'm confusing these, I've had 5 of em, a 93, 96, 98, 2000, and 2011, the 2011 (current) does it in 9 seconds, it makes it feel like the cars gonna launch into space oil_boi: Best car you can get for 500 bucks Verticen: oil_boi u got a that 2011 interceptor for $500?? rlly? ur quite the lucky guy oil_boi: But the automatic sweep on the electronic throttle body will cut your finger off if you don't unplug it so that's fun oil_boi: Verticen, Yeah my friend bought it and he was like "I already have 5 cars, so I want tattoos" and I stole this thing off em for that price oil_boi: Lemme see if I can find a pic oil_boi: Verticen, are these visible? https://imgur.com/a/9ctVjqk Verticen: oil_boi yeah. that's nice oil_boi: Thanks bro. I put in a 3.27 tracloc rearend when it had the normal 3.55 so it goes 147, at least, that's all I dared to take it up to up in Maine oil_boi: I just hope she doesn't have the new Ford problems, that'd be a pain. I wouldn't doubt it'll get em because the moral in the St. Thomas plant was awful during the last year oil_boi: This straight up brings a tear to my eye, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpsuDRLjpGs , Ford made the worst mistake in their entire lifespan oil_boi: This one is the P7B detective package and marauder hidden package mixed into one blaise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDT9pgDoS6w guzzi: is there a way to make mobs_animals spawn more animals? guzzi: all my biomes seem to be mountains. I guess that explains why I am not seeing much. guzzi: I defintely see the mobs_monsters in the caves. guzzi: my entire world seems to be forests who0: Hi guys, do you have best practices to optimize map.sqlite ? sfan5: in which regard? Krock: max_block_generate_distance = 2 freelikegnu: after submitting a mod release to the contentdb how long does the approval usually take? Does approval need to be requested? rubenwardy: freelikegnu: I sent you a question rubenwardy: you pinged me about some naming issue rubenwardy: on IRC rubenwardy: I pinged you back asking if it was still a problem, because the package looks fine to me freelikegnu: oh yeah its all good freelikegnu: thank you freelikegnu: just added the goblin dogs too Krock: "goblin dogs"? Krock: like human dogs. pet dogs? freelikegnu: https://content.minetest.net/packages/FreeLikeGNU/goblins/screenshots/1461/edit/ freelikegnu: er: https://content.minetest.net/uploads/y5IyWxm6nX.png freelikegnu: they are mutated goblins Krock: uh nice freelikegnu: not quite like werewolves tho Krock: please add lamas that have 50% chance of spawning either friendly or with laser-shooting eyes freelikegnu: I'll add that to my list Krock: yay :D freelikegnu: llamageddon Krock: ddamageddon adfeno: Hi all, how do I evaluate the mod profiler? adfeno: Should I get the entries with most "samples" and most "part avg %" ? sfan5: latter adfeno: I noticed that only taking the most "part avg%" can somewhat be innacurate, since "samples" might be too low to make decent statitisc. adfeno: Or is there something wrong in my reasoning? adfeno: As an example, I have a mods in the server which had 68491 samples profiled, but these same ones take 20% in "part avg %", at maximum. adfeno: Both the 68491 samples and the one entry with 11 samples were present in same profile saved. sfan5: makes sense to me sfan5: I don't exactly know how the profilers calculates its output though adfeno: Assuming samples could happen concurrently, then: 11 / 68491 = 0,01% of the maximum collected samples. adfeno: So the entry with 11 samples collected, although using most "part avg %" could be considered too "time-localized" to be a lag factor. adfeno: Again, I'm open for discussion :D who0: sfan5: I've got some timeout > server shutdown sfan5: who0: hm? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix configuration caching in log_deprecated (#9697) 134361bfc https://git.io/JfkcW (152020-04-21T22:07:12Z) FrostRanger: has anyone else been getting 500 errors when they connect to the forums? Peppy: FrostRanger : yes, it's been weeks everybody does... FrostRanger: does anyone know what is going on? Peppy: it goes up and down many times a day guzzi: i never heard of notabug.org for repositories guzzi: seems like TenPlus1 has some great mods. guzzi: I saw a penguin today. guess my animals mod IS working. :) guzzi: we got the alligators swiming in the artic though. guzzi: tasty who0: I'm looking to crop map.sqlite (an regenerate if it'is needed) who0: (ok, sorry for that -> deleteblocks) argyle: Rollback doesn't work with worldedit commands? MinetestBot: ANAND: Apr-19 16:37 UTC https://github.com/Desour/anand_gate ANAND: lol ANAND: !tell DS-minetest I'm honoured :) MinetestBot: ANAND: I'll pass that on when DS-minetest is around ANAND: kthx oil_boi: ANAND, the discussion we had a few days ago, you were onto something!! If you make the server wait to create a modchannel, called "initialized" in this case, and then run a simple loop to check if it's open in the client, then release the clientside initialization payload to load all the mods it seems to not give error 23 anymore :D ANAND: Nice! ANAND: How do you check if the channel is open in the client? is_writeable? oil_boi: Yes, you have to run it like this https://pastebin.com/raw/0LE17qv1 oil_boi: Because there are semi-rare cases of two clientside steps not being initialized etc etc ANAND: Cool oil_boi: It's hard getting over delay initialization of client mods because usually the serverside modding api gives errors if you delay creating functions oil_boi: Oh interesting, now the weather channel won't create snow, ooooof ANAND: I think using minetest,after-based recursion is a better than using globalsteps, because we only need the code to run until the mod channel is ready. ANAND: minetest.after* oil_boi: HEY you're a genius ANAND: Am I? :D ANAND: But as I was saying, may give the following a try? https://pastebin.com/TguArrRF ANAND: maybe* ANAND: Argh, so many typos... oil_boi: https://pastebin.com/xAVeWP8B oil_boi: It wuurkz oil_boi: Holy moly this means that more and more people can create client mods which work correctly everytime!! ANAND: Yay! :) oil_boi: :O :O You just have to run a .after(0 statement for the weather to work every time oh lawdy ANAND: lol oil_boi: Now if only there was an ABM style thing for when a node gets created, aka placing a node and water flow Worldblender: Sorry for delaying this, but here I will post the gist of my latest forum topic from: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24582 Worldblender: Since my last post from the beginning of this year, I haven't made much progress on my senior design project, besides the mod involving changing player models (https://gitlab.com/Worldblender/chchar), but the other two parts (building-maker) and (auto-explorer) have not been worked on a lot. Worldblender: I ultimately have decided that another external project would be my best shot for trying to do something with it (but I only have 2 to 3 weeks to have something done before I end up with a bad grade): CraftAssist (https://github.com/facebookresearch/craftassist): A Framework for Dialogue-enabled Interactive Agents, created by Facebook Research Worldblender: This software provides a chat bot for Minecraft (that's why I thought this project would be the most relevant) capable of responding to players by their dialogue, including building structures and basic self-navigation. This software runs on top of Cuberite ([url]https://github.com/cuberite/cuberite.git[/url]), "a Minecraft-compatible multiplayer Worldblender: game server that is written in C++ and designed to be efficient with memory and CPU, as well as having a flexible Lua Plugin API." While it is open-source, licensed under the Apache License V2, it is built mainly for Minecraft. Worldblender: I might have a shot with CrafftAssist if I can find out how it operates, and subsequently rewrite this code entirely in Lua, porting it to use Minetest-specific functions where necessary. Depending on how this goes, I may end up making a mod that fulfills the basic purpose of auto-explorer and building-maker, with a chatbot frontend. Unfortunately, Worldblender: I am the only who will do all of this work, which often consumes much more time unless if some more people can step in to help me with understanding the code of CraftAssist. Worldblender: With this short amount of time I have left (I should've presented this project weeks earlier, but it's better late than never) in 2 to 3 weeks, I think I'm going to need some help on the way. I will have to present something on April 29, and I have to finish my report by May 5, 5:00 PM CDT. I really don't want to see myself fail my senior design Worldblender: class with a bad grade, merely because I couldn't handle porting some code made for Minecraft to Minetest! oil_boi: ANAND, made netherrack super easy to mine so player's have a higher chance of dying >:) oil_boi: Worldblender, have you ever made a Minetest mod before? Nutty8: Hello!! Nutty8: Just passing by to solve a doubt Nutty8: What is an Oerrki? Worldblender: oil_boi, I have made one before, here: https://gitlab.com/Worldblender/chchar It may not have been too popular, because I never published any models with the correct metadata files, which I may do later on. oil_boi: Nutty8, an Oerrki seems to be a phantom/ghost depending on what model it's using Worldblender: In order for my senior design project to get a passing grade, it needs to include some sort of artificial intelligence or machine learning, which the mod I posted does not incorporate. Hence I had to propose another two mods in my report. Sompi: how do I download the newest source code oil_boi: Worldblender, this looks like a massive project from what I can read, you should create a text file with main goals and then list sub-goals within those goals to create a project flow Nutty8: Ohh thanks oil_boi now it's clear for me :) oil_boi: Sompi, here is the github with the latest source code https://github.com/minetest/minetest oil_boi: Nutty8, No problemo Sompi: yes, but how Worldblender: oil_boi which one? The project I made, or CraftAssist that I mentioned earlier? oil_boi: Sompi, you click the green button that says "clone or download" https://github.com/minetest/minetest/archive/master.zip oil_boi: Worldblender, the one you initially mentioned, it sounds like you'd have to translate different languages with a simple api you can create Nutty8: I wish you all have a peaceful night (at least it's night here), see ya :D Worldblender: oil_boi Worse yet, I am doing this project all by myself, as none of my other students in my senior design project class are familiar with what I want to do, which unfortunately is going to consume a lot of time. I have found some other existing mods that so a subset of the AI functionality: Worldblender: Open AI (https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/open_ai), AliveAI (https://github.com/AiTechEye/aliveai/), and working_villages (https://github.com/theFox6/working_villages). While they are a good start, their implementations are rather rudimentary. oil_boi: Then just create a simple mob which tries to find ores, and tada, easy A Worldblender: oil_boi I did think about that before, but the problem is that I may not have fully understood the code needed to pathfinding and finding certain items. The only I have ever made, I basically modified skinsdb so that it works with 3d models instead of skins. Additionally, if the only thing that can be considered mine is a file containing a mob Worldblender: definition, it may not be considered all my work. Sompi: the wiki article about server hosting needs some updating Worldblender: I can become discouraged easily if code that I write and test constantly causes my worlds to close and crash, or if it's not producing the results I'm looking for. In your suggestion, I may have trouble trying to implement the pathfinding and node-searching parts. I also would like to try having this done on the players without the need to create Worldblender: additional entities. Sompi: I don't know what version of minetest comes with two different executables for client and dedicated server, but at least the newest version seems to have both functionalities in one binary Sompi: now my server refuses to start without a world and I don't know how to generate one Sompi: ... I managed to get it working by some trial and error Sompi: or at least it says that it is listening to port 3000 and also seems that it created a new world Sompi: 30 000*~ Sompi: and my client is too old and not supported Sompi: "2020-04-20 06:03:44: ACTION[Server]: Server: A mismatched client tried to connect from 178.55.175.101" Sompi: at least some progress Sompi: is there any documentation about the plugin API somewhere? Worldblender: Sompi Is it the modding API, or client-side modding you're asking about? Sompi: server-side Worldblender: This page from the wiki may help you Sompi: https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server Sompi: now the server is working, but it has only the "minimal" game Worldblender: It might need to be fully reinstalled, so that it has all of the data files. Sompi: I compiled it from the source Worldblender: Maybe you did not check out minetest_game, which is in its own git respository. Sompi: yes Sompi: I installed the default game now Worldblender: Sompi Your server is now working, after I suggested you to check out minetest_game? Sompi: yes, it seems to work fine Sompi: now I just need some mods to have monsters and stuff Worldblender: Okay; I'm on here for the time being mainly because I'm trying to see if I can get help with my senior design project according to my recent forum topic: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24582 Do you think you or someone else can help me after reading it, Sompi? Sompi: I don't know Sompi: maybe Sompi: I have done some stuff with C Sompi: http://sininenankka.dy.fi/~sami/fdshell/ things like this Worldblender: I am trying to see if I may be able to do something with this external project: CraftAssist (https://github.com/facebookresearch/craftassist): A Framework for Dialogue-enabled Interactive Agents, created by Facebook Research, for use with Minecraft Sompi: and I'm planning to code a chat/VoIP/video call software that is backwards compatible with IRC but I have not even started it yet Worldblender: It mainly involves C++, Python, and Lua. But it's taking me a while to understand how this software works. I want to have something implemented, even if it's incomplete due to having only 2 to 3 weeks left. Sompi: it cannot find the mods that I have put to the mods directory Sompi: I put them under the game/mods directory and now they loaded Worldblender: Sompi oh, that's good to hear. It looks like I'll have to try finding time to better understand the code of CraftAssist, or define my own mob under an existing mob framework. But all that will have to be done tomorrow, since it seems like here I can't get anymore help for now. I'll be leaving soon, maybe coming back if I need more help. Sompi: I installed the mobs_redo mod with its animal, monster, npc and horse addons but it doesn't spawn any mobs Sompi: the server is now online with mobs_redo mod, the address is bsserver.tunk.org:30000 Sompi: seems to work fairly well but the world is still completely unprotected from griefers oil_boi: How are you supposed to get the values returned by player:get_eye_offset()? doing a dump crashes and doing [1] yeilds nothing, so does get_eye_offset().offset_first ANAND: oil_boi: get_eye_offset() returns { first = {}, third = {}} ANAND: Hmm, lua_api says offset_first and offset_third ANAND: But note that both these values would be nil until a mod sets them using `set_eye_offset` before-hand ANAND: (AFAIK) oil_boi: Ahh thank you ANAND. Would you know how to raycast through nodes to get all nodes in between oil_boi: I'm asking because I'm creating perfect hardness levels with tnt, making the blast not go through obsidian and bedrock oil_boi: Raycasting is so fast I can easily use it to create perfect "raytraced" explosion oil_boi: I'm already using the raycasting to make it so you can dig with buckets while looking at water then you can right click and pick up the water at the same time, I drowned testing the buckets with liquids_pointable because I could not dig with an inventory full of buckets so now they are much better oil_boi: If not I could use a vm and delete the nodes, storing them in a table, then raycast from the nodes to the center and see if they should be deleted oil_boi: then re-add them in if not, forgot to add that part oil_boi: Also the only downside to using the raycasting engine to use buckets is the fact that the collisionbox of liquids to not change to fit their visual :( oil_boi: The solution to waterflow getting in the way during a raycast with liquids was to make waterflow's selectionbox all 0 :O :L ANAND: oil_boi: As far as I know, there's no way to skip through solid nodes, if that's what you mean sfan5: why not call :next() a second, third, ... time ANAND: Unless you do it manually, of course (i.e. checking node names) ANAND: sfan5: I _think_ oil_boi was asking whether or not normal nodes can be automatically skipped without having to manually check the node name and call :next() sfan5: hm sfan5: right that's not possible oil_boi: You can do that! That works great :D Time to raytraced explosions oil_boi: Thanks! ANAND: Yay, good luck :) oil_boi: Just gotta finish up the glowstone :L ANAND: Thinking about it, it'd be awesome if we could optionally specify the raycast properties, for an individual :next() call ANAND: e.g. raycast:next(true, false) ANAND: If the non-parametric version of next is used, the initially-specified properties of the raycast are assumed (the ones provided to Raycast() / minetest.get_raycast()) ANAND: This would be real handy for use-cases where a mod would shoot out a first raycast with its own properties, and the subsequent next calls would obey the original raycast properties. ANAND: Or vice-versa - the mod raycasts out in a bunch of directions, detects a node, then performs a special raycast, etc. ANAND: Can't really think of a concrete idea atm, but I'm sure people would come up with brilliant use-cases once the feature is available. :D MinetestBot: DS-minetest: Apr-20 01:23 UTC I'm honoured :) Zughy: ANAND, it doesn't sound bad, it'd be handy indeed as for now the only way is to iterate through every collision DS-minetest: !tell oil_boi an oerkki is not a ghost, see https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rkki , it's an orc MinetestBot: DS-minetest: I'll pass that on when oil_boi is around oil_boi: Oh my MinetestBot: oil_boi: Apr-20 11:45 UTC an oerkki is not a ghost, see https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rkki , it's an orc oil_boi: Well it doesn't exist in Minetest game by default so I guess it's nothing DS-minetest: the oerkki was part of the base game in the past DS-minetest: also the rat and the dungeon master oil_boi: Then I'll have to bring them back DS-minetest: !tell Nutty8 an oerkki is not a ghost, see https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96rkki , it's an orc MinetestBot: DS-minetest: yeah, yeah DS-minetest: ^because they asked oil_boi: How does one have a decoration below a node? I haven't tested it yet so I want to know if it's even possible before I attempt it :L oil_boi: Also what even is "ERROR[Server]: Got packet command: 23 for peer id 2 but client isn't active yet. Dropping packet" this error? rubenwardy: 23 = player position rubenwardy: if that's hex rubenwardy: if it's dec, then 23 is TOCLIENT_ACCESS_DENIED_LEGACY, which makes no sense oil_boi: So the client is able to send data clientside before it's even ready? what rubenwardy: this will be a server bug oil_boi: Oooooof I've been chasing a server bug with clientside fixes this entire time damn. No wonder I can't get the client to reinitialize it's calls no matter what I do rubenwardy: are you doing client-side craziness? oil_boi: rubenwardy, this is my client initialization https://github.com/oilboi/crafter_client/blob/master/init.lua oil_boi: Should I delay the initial attempt? Or like literally anything because it's a headache rubenwardy: isn't there a callback? DS-minetest: it's decimal and TOSERVER_MODCHANNEL_JOIN btw. DS-minetest: 0x17 rubenwardy: oh, I converted the wrong way oil_boi: Not that I can find and I looked that api up and down like 50 times so far DS-minetest: oil_boi: you're trying to join mod channels on load time, which seems to be illegal. here. https://github.com/oilboi/crafter_client/blob/8be315995a98220d1b08329f26660506de0d0d38/init.lua#L29 DS-minetest: you should do the dofiles on mod load time and the mod channel joins in .after oil_boi: But the .after is what is giving me the headache, it seems like no matter how much .after time I give before joining a channel it gives this error rubenwardy: you should probably check for minetest.localplayer instead? rubenwardy: that's only created after joining oil_boi: Thank you, let's find out nephele: Why does timing matter for the mod channel mechanism? DS-minetest: as many csms have to do this (using .after recursively until localplayer is there) and this is not very intuitive, it might make sense if there was a callback DS-minetest: nephele: csms are loaded before the client finished joining the server DS-minetest: at this time, there's eg. no localplayer and co. nephele: so? DS-minetest: so some calls to the api are invalid nephele: On a high level it just seems to be a "i want to join channel nephele: "blah" for comms nephele: why would joining that matter for timing? nephele: If you want to send packets related to the player should just do that in on_join_player or something if you want to start with it? but i don't see how the timing of opening the channel matters nephele: I must say though, docs/mod channels.png is a horrible way to try and confuse people about how the mod channel system works... :) sfan5: nephele: csms are loaded before the client finished joining the server oil_boi: rubenwardy, I just tested it 55 times and you fixed it, thank you rubenwardy: !ncext rubenwardy: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! sfan5: I couldn't reproduce this locally, maybe some sort of race condition sfan5: should be looked at at some point either way nephele: sfan5, repeating the same message does not help my understanding nephele: Why does it matter conceptually when you join a channel? I am quite confident that the game itself should be able to handle the network communication DS-minetest: hm, I thought they are loaded before finishing joining by concept. sfan5: nephele: wasn't aimed at you nephele: okay DS-minetest: btw. .mod_channel_join says it's asynchronous, so checking is_writeable might make not so much sense directly after, maybe oil_boi: Here rubenwardy I put in your name because you literally fixed it https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/README.md nephele: this whole api seems wierd to me, i fail to see why registering that a message came in is a different call than joining the channel rubenwardy: the CSM API is not supported currently rubenwardy: which is why it's strange nephele: the mod channel mechanism is part of the csm though right? oil_boi: nephele, Yeah it's not, which is some kind of miracle I can even do have the junk I'm currently doing with it and it's not crashing nephele: i mean, did it exist before csm or not? oil_boi: have->half DS-minetest: nephele: it didn't DS-minetest: there was no reason for it... oil_boi: Wait you're confused on why you must join the channel and set a variable for the channel, then use the variable to send messages to the server with it? nephele: I liked the way comms worked in gmod, severall mechanisms some context specific, made for a nice use of pick the right tool nephele: like, it had variables ontop of SWEPS (which are kind of what a pickaxe would be in minetest, just way more powerfull (costum animation, model, lifecycle etc)) which you could optionally sync with the server nephele: And mods generally were written to have a server and client component in most of them, with the vars SERVER and CLIENT to see which side you are on oil_boi: Well the difference is, Minetest's engine is built from scratch using Irrlicht as a rendering engine by people that simply enjoy doing it in their spare time, and Source 2 was developed by 360+- people that got paid to do it all day and night. Also many of these things in the Minetest engine are being written to run on literally any device * rubenwardy: wonders when oil_boi will get sucked into engine development nephele: uhhm okay? but neither does gmod use source2, nor are most of the comms channel gmod has build ontop of source rubenwardy: (gmod uses source 1) nephele: some are i guess, but the specific lua stuff is mostly build ontop of the engine * DS-minetest: wonders what gmod and source2 is rubenwardy: a sandbox game, and a game engine * DS-minetest: and source 1 DS-minetest: aha rubenwardy: source 1 is the game engine behind Half Life, Portal, and TF1 I think Zughy: uhm, can please some mod whenever they're free to check the topic about mods move request? There are replies from April 3 waiting to be checked nephele: Team fortress classic and Half-life were gld-src nephele: Team Fortress 2 and Half life 2 were source 1 rubenwardy: source 2 is behind Portal 2, Half life 2 rubenwardy: huh? oil_boi: It's source 1? That's even more of an unbalanced comparison since source 1 is written on top of quake which already existed rubenwardy: oh right rubenwardy: what's source 2 then? nephele: source 2 is only in dota 2 and cs:go nephele: source 2 is the promised land of "surely valve will opensource this too???" but really they only used it for 2 games till now oil_boi: Also rubenwardy errr, that's probably for the best I don't, it's been like 7 years since I tried C++ rubenwardy: what's Half-Life 3: Alyx written in? nephele: Not that interesting if you want your own game nephele: I suppose also in source 2? i havent checked nephele: but i do suspect that valve is really just trying to drive vr home and doesnt care that much about moddability currently :P nephele: it's not half-life 3 though either :) oil_boi: I think the conversation has fallen off the rails choo choo rubenwardy: wish it was, would have loved that nephele: Heh nephele: In any case, i picked gmod becuase it is a good example of a lua api, generally good docs and mostly fun to work with, i might even still use it if they didn't change their EULA to smth hostile :P oil_boi: nephele, my task for you, port half life 2 to Minetest engine :O nephele: oil_boi, That won't work nephele: unless you mean "re-implement source 1 ontop of the minetest-core" nephele: in which case... bah nephele: I may sometimes complain about missing lua api features i am used too in gmod :P, in generall their client-server seperation worked really well, and minetest doesn't have that much there yet nephele: but room to improve upon gmod oil_boi: Random topic change: If you hit a certain velocity falling should you get teleported to the void dimension? rubenwardy: hitting unloaded chunks is something that generally happens nephele: heh, indeed nephele: oil_boi, seeing as we don't really have... dimensions :P nephele: but would be an interesting concept oil_boi: I am forcing the game to have dimensions oil_boi: Literally nephele: how? DS-minetest: there are three dimensions DS-minetest: x, y, z oil_boi: Generate a biome with only air at a certain y min and max and the terrain gen stops during it and your lua written terrain gen can run at speeds close to c++ somehow nephele: DS-minetest, trying to defeat my argument by changing my terminology? :P I ment dimensions as in dimensions of destinc space oil_boi: I have implemented bedrock which takes 2 million years to mine, literally, it gets generated at dimension border nephele: you could describe that as 4d space i guess (or 5d if you think time is a dimension) Zughy: rubenwardy, about the hub: I lived the dream just enough, but I guess from the quite empty logs it's not a bad idea (I can't write there) nephele: oil_boi, yeah, i dont like that solution, it feels like a bad hack to me oil_boi: Oof that hurt DrFrankenstone: oil_boi - have you noticed the issue and PR on github? nephele: why? :) rubenwardy: I don't have the permissions to auto-voice people nephele: I think arbitrary "dimenssions" should have engine support oil_boi: Because I worked very hard on trying to make it work correctly oil_boi: DrFrankenstone, looking nephele: I haven't critized your implementation, i just don't think it /can/ work correctly without engine support _Zaizen_: Yeah I agree with Zugh. _Zaizen_: The hub is pretty dead oil_boi: DrFrankenstone, I will test these changes now DrFrankenstone: oh, cheers oil_boi: Also yeah nephele I know, I've just been locked in my house for a month and I'm used to going outside to the skatepark every day so my mind is not so good right now oil_boi: I wish we did have a way to create multiple maps in the same server call oil_boi: How does GMOD do multiple worlds in the same server? nephele: it doesn't nephele: maps in source are pretty static, you can't change the world boundaries at runtime at all rubenwardy: guess they do loads of baking magic nephele: how so? sfan5: mmmmm cookies nephele: You can make severall enclosed parts of a map and teleport players between them, but the world bounaries are final :P, if you want to change the actuall boundaries you have to literally recompile the map DS-minetest: >recompile the map are their maps saved as C source code that declares static extern arrays? nephele: Not everything that compiles from A to B has to involve C, gee nephele: z rubenwardy: compiling will probably involving baking lighting and shaders rubenwardy: *shadows nephele: Yes, most of them rubenwardy: although, maybe not shadows if objects cast shadows DS-minetest: ah nephele: If you use the old-style lights in source and make them be able to switch on and off the map will compile a variant for each on and off combination of them nephele: Which, is a design that completely made sense for hl2 era computers ;) nephele: Ther are dynamic lights and dynamic shadows too, but most are indeed precompiled to save on ressources DS-minetest: so, if there are n lights that can be switched on/off individually, there are 2^n maps?! nephele: 2^n lightmaps rubenwardy: surely the geometry is reused, it's just the light maps? nephele: not complete mapfiles DS-minetest: but still, that doesn't scale very well DS-minetest: (or the lightmaps are super small) nephele: Well, it's not exactly 2^N, not all need to be saved anyhow (if you have 2 independant spaces they dont have to affect each other) rubenwardy: hence why we have programmable pipelines now nephele: and the lightmaps are generally somewhat smal DS-minetest: I see nephele: DS-minetest, Well, it was a design ment for like 2004 era computers nephele: their it absolutely made sense to not do dynamic lighting most of the time oil_boi: DrFrankenstone, I merged your pr, thanks for catching that so quickly DrFrankenstone: excellent oil_boi: Holy crap, raycasting TNT works DS-minetest: hm? DS-minetest: like getting some random vectors to the edge of a cube, using core.raycast from the tnt pos to into the vectors' directions and then removing every node that's returned? Andrey01: Wow, over 1000 players online!!! xachman: Andrey01: where? playing minetest? Andrey01: Xachman, on multicraft and minetest also Andrey01: 56 on SkyWars, 51 on Vineland Andrey01: 47 on Catlandia Krock: quantity > quality nephele: Krock, you saying those players aren't quality players? Krock: no, I'm saying that the quantity overweights the quality on those servers VanessaE: fwiw, my server "network" see around 20-30 users at peak each day, though I don't have any idea how to count unique visitors per day. Krock: VanessaE: per username, and per IP if they are short-time visitors VanessaE: I meant I'd need to code a mod for that (as opposed to the minimal one that just logs the current player count) and haven't thought it out yet :) Krock: oh noes that's a tragedy :P VanessaE: :P sfan5: alternatively: grep + awk + whatever on debug.txt VanessaE: actually I use both, for the existing current-count VanessaE: log the count to debug.txt, grep to scrape it for rrdtool Krock: or grep | sed | sort | wc -l | ... VanessaE: that doesn't work so well when there's more than about 5 or 6 players on the server VanessaE: (the server splits the player list across multiple lines then) Krock: it does auto-breaking in the logs? VanessaE: yeah VanessaE: or it used to, I haven't checked recently. VanessaE: it was easier to write a simple mod to output the count in a way I could reliably scrape than to try to figure out all the regexes it would have needed. nephele: Krock, I'm sure there is like 0 people on my server :D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace travis with github actions (#9641) 1327a485a https://git.io/JfTcF (152020-04-20T18:18:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix build badge since switching to github actions 13c2ac7b1 https://git.io/JfTCf (152020-04-20T18:22:23Z) hisforever: Hi I really need help with the Digtron mod. digtron heat reaming in controller furnace: 0 minetest hisforever: please help orbea: any comments on https://github.com/adrido/darkage vs https://github.com/davisonio/darkage, its not exactly clear how they differ? hisforever: well no help in here God bless Zughy: uhm, is it possible to create several worlds in the same server? Or even better, istantiate them rubenwardy: Zughy: not on the same Minetest server, but you can run multiple servers on the same machine Zughy: rip istantiating rubenwardy: istantiating? instancing? rubenwardy: instantiating* rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: CTF uses schematics to change the world, Zughy rubenwardy: code: https://github.com/MT-CTF/capturetheflag/tree/master/mods/ctf/ctf_map rubenwardy: maps: https://github.com/mt-ctf/maps Zughy: never stop learning (instancing) Zughy: uhm, how about a range for visible nicknames on the head of players? rubenwardy: you can do that with the player send distance Zughy: that's great, ty :) rubenwardy: CTF uses a mod to allow the nametags to be hidden behind walls rubenwardy: !mod [playertag] MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Entity based nametags [playertag] by sparky - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19401 - https://github.com/Elkien3/playertag Zughy: huh, that's awesome MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve protocol-level receiving code (#9617) 138ef239b https://git.io/JfTES (152020-04-20T21:22:00Z) adfeno: Hi there, is there a setting to make mapchunks (80^3 nodes) unload if not navigated after some time? sfan5: mapchunks specifically no sfan5: but for mapblocks (16^3), yes and it's enabled by default adfeno: I help manage a server in which we found that for a given player who connects, it seems to remember the places it visited even if they go 3 mapchunks far from there and stay away from, say, 30min. adfeno: Stacking that up, around 10 players walking around makes the server laggy. adfeno: sfan5: Which setting is that which relates to mapblocks? sfan5: server_unload_unused_data_timeout sfan5: which blocks the server considers unused depends on active_block_range I think sfan5: yeah that should be it adfeno: server_unload_unused_data_timeout is in seconds? sfan5: yes adfeno: sfan5: OK thanks :D adfeno: Is there a way to change those two dinamically? Can mods do that and affect the server live (while it's online/running) ? sfan5: yes and yes sfan5: though there should be no need to sfan5: you can use the /set chatcommand adfeno: The person responsible for the server I help asked that since they might want to do some form of load-balancing mod. adfeno: We are also trying to sort out the Minetest profiler outputs so as to see which mods use most resources when we notice some lag. xachman: any way to see all the mods that are on a server? sfan5: /mods oil_boi: I usually try not to post my new videos in the irc but I'm so happy with how this came out, here, https://youtu.be/jYG8_WnjUww sfan5: !title MinetestBot: sfan5: Crafter - A Walk Around The Aether - YouTube oil_boi: I've been trying to create this thing for 10 years and it finally happened xachman: any way to output or copy a command output? xachman: any way to print it to a file or something nephele: oil_boi, that looks rather nice nephele: somewhat makes me wonder if mt could have a sort of LOD system for chunks, generating a much wider area but with a lower precision so you atleast see basic geometry in the distance... hmmm oil_boi: Thank you nephele, I wish that were the case too but that's ultra extremely difficult to program properly into the engine as of now oil_boi: I'm just gonna have to accept that you can kinda see the scale of things, but even on render distance 80 it feels like you are lost in another dimension so that's good enough for now oil_boi: But the void oil_boi: Oh god, the void oil_boi: This is how it feels to find bugs in your mod https://youtu.be/x_xk8YUrKxk oil_boi: !title MinetestBot: oil_boi: Morrowind Combat - YouTube rubenwardy: freelikegnu: what needs to be done for "goblins" on CDB? rubenwardy: I don't understnad your question earlier guzzi: i want to use mobs_animal guzzi: on a headless server guzzi: i installed mobs_redo. guzzi: is there a way for me to see if it is working. I am not seeing any animals NathanS21: I assume you've added mobs_animals as well? guzzi: yes i added mobs animals as well. when i start the minetest server it shows that both have loaded. guzzi: only thing I notice is that the folder is called mobs_redo guzzi: but the module setting is just mobs Lone_Wolf: You should see `[MOD] Mobs Redo 'Animals' loaded` in your logs when starting up a world NathanS21: Yes, the folder should be called mobs_redo NathanS21: You should also be able to find the mob eggs in creative inventory on the server NathanS21: running /mods on the server will also show what mods are enabled guzzi: what is 'createive inventory'? guzzi: oh i see beehive guzzi: ok is there some way they get generated in my world? guzzi: do i have to set creative? NathanS21: The animals should randomly spawn in your world. NathanS21: Different ones will spawn in different areas. guzzi: ah ok. well looks like it is all there. thanks guzzi: I just don't see anything yet. NathanS21: It might take a little while for them to start appearing, but they will. :) guzzi: ok thanks NathanS21. guzzi: actually i don't see [MOD] Mobs Redo 'Animals' loaded guzzi: and I only see some fireflys NathanS21: Fireflies are part of MTG NathanS21: does mobs_animal show when you run the /mods command. guzzi: NathanS21 yes it does guzzi: I just saw then end of my config had an extra load_mod_mobs = false guzzi: so maybe that was it. guzzi: I will check back tomorrow guzzi: well i gave myself give permissions and gave myself a bee. guzzi: guess i will just drop some mob spawners guzzi: so it is working guzzi: are there instructions on the spawner options? troy_cambridge: did not really expect to see so many in here. troy_cambridge: I'm playing the realtest game and am stuck figuring out how to smelt metals swift110-phone__: Oh ok oil_boi: How would one tell emerge_area https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4769 to do something when the mapblocks are loaded? oil_boi: It's worded very strangely in the doc cheapie: oil_boi: I would imagine you would give it a callback to run, and lines 4775-4788 state what stuff will be passed to it. cheapie: If you're wanting to wait until *all* of the ones you specified are done, it sounds like you'll have to just wait to be called with a calls_remaining of 0. oil_boi: Thanks cheapie oil_boi: I was like, doing a timer, but then I'm like this is dumb, and I finally just gave up on that and was like emerge_area has to have some way to do this * oil_boi: wonders if multiple emerge_area calls can be run in a single instance tf2ftw: hi. Anyone use aliveai before? I don't understand how to generate bots tf2ftw: https://github.com/AiTechEye/aliveai/wiki/bot-defines oil_boi: as in, if you have local variable x declared directly before the emerge_area callback is defined if two instances of the same call try to run will x be contaminated, aka doubled, as they try to add x=x+1 ? oil_boi: or will it do emerge area, reset, emerge area, instead of emerge area1, emerge area2, repeat? oil_boi: oh no my question broke freenode Verticen: Yo I'm clueless on how to answer any of ur questions, but I want to say that ur latest nether test is sweet, and the music is good! oil_boi: Thanks Verticen! Hopefully we can actually travel to the nether within the next hour or two :) oil_boi: Verticen, very exciting, I've figured out a method to localize nether portals, no need for metadata storage, it's utilizing actual positions and finding a portal within a 30 node distance and if it doesn't exist it will try to create them, and if it does, when you teleport it will simply go to the already existing one Verticen: oil_boi Nice. Since portals can be any shape, will the portal created in the opposite dimension share the same shape of the created portal? How will that work? also do you plan on doing a 1:4 distance ratio for overworld/nether? oil_boi: No, it would take a lot of calculations and storage to do that, I'm going to do a simple nether portal schematic. BUT since this utilizes the function to just check if there's a nether portal node around the lava sea's starting position, if you build a portal within 30 nodes of the nether portal you spawned into the nether in, it will always link the two together. I can't really do that since we're limited to the 16 bit oil_boi: integer limit on x and z, if I did that you'd always hit the border of the map if you're farther out than 8000 nodes on x or z. Also a 1,1 ratio is much easier to do since I can check directly below the player, etc. If the mapsize is ever expanded I'll feel free to modify everything to do the 1:4 ratio Verticen: cool. keep the updates coming, they're cool to see. oil_boi: Thanks bro. I think you'll be very excited to know, since it's 1:1 and Y coordinate independent , you can essentially create dimension elevators, portals next to each other that will transport you to the adjacent dimension portal oil_boi: oof theslavguardian: Hello everyone Sompi: vois laittaa minetest-palvelimen Sompi: how can I host a minetest server sfan5: https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server Sompi: what plugins do you recommend Sompi: http://bsserver.tunk.org:8000/phpsysinfo/index.php?disp=bootstrap is this enough for specs sfan5: 16 CPU cores and 16GB of RAM are far past the recommend requirements sfan5: so yes that is "enough" Krock: You need at least a GTX 2080 Super sfan5: which mods depends on your intention what the server should be Krock: otherwise the server won't run smoothly Sompi: a minecraft-like survival game where players can builds and do some redstone-like logic Krock: your cores aren't very strong, but will definitely suffice to run a full-fledged server with heavy machinery mods sfan5: !mod mobs_redo MinetestBot: sfan5: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo sfan5: !mod mesecons MinetestBot: sfan5: Mesecons (= redstone) [mesecons] by Jeija - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=628 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/mesecons sfan5: ^ you'll want those two at least Krock: I can pass you the IEC gate textures for the mesecons mod if you'd prefer those :3 (like I do) Sompi: i'll look into those when I get the basic server working Krock: I wonder how much you could overclock those Xeons. The 54xx series were pretty good there, maybe yours too Sompi: slackware's sbotools ran into some md5hash errors when installing flatpak :( Sompi: is there an archive file somewhere that contains only the binaries? Krock: how about Slackware's official repository? Krock: or unstable, if even. sfan5: I think there are some ways you can extract flatpaks, but the flatpaks contain the client anyway with X11 and all that stuff Sompi: yes, and I need only the server sfan5: if your distribution doesn't have it compiling from source isn't too complicated Sompi: actually there is a minetest package in slackbuilds.org Sompi: but it is 5.0.1 Krock: outdated by a year tf2ftw: hi. Anyone use aliveai before? I don't understand how to generate bots tf2ftw: https://github.com/AiTechEye/aliveai/wiki/bot-defines orbea: Sompi: download the newer source and: VERSSION=5.2.0 ./minetest.Slackbuild * DS-minetest: thinks he found the reason why nodetimers were called wrongly for him * DS-minetest: forgot to rebuild and hence had c++ changes of the vector PR but not the lua part guzzi: I loaded mobs_animal and mobs_redo do I need to regenerate my world to see them start appearing? guzzi: I can give my self animals and place them, but I am not seeing them appear anywhere. orbea: guzzi: no, you do not need to regenerate the world, just wait orbea: imo the mobs_animals dont spawn enough compared to mobs_monsters guzzi: yeah someone else reported it on the forum too. guzzi: I will try mobs_monsters. thanks ANAND: True, mobs_animal mobs spawn very far and few in between. guzzi: yeah like never. guzzi: like in real life guzzi: sitting in the deer stand I almost never see deer. guzzi: thanks guys. guzzi: hopefully i can contribute to this project. guzzi: I contributed to some c++ for monero, I do python mostly. * orbea: shrugs, I've fixed 3 bugs in MTG so far and the only one that was merged/closed was because it was a duplicate of a unmerged 2018 PR I didn't see until after...contributing seems a waste of time. Krock: research to prevent stepping into pitfalls guzzi: yeah.. turns out print(S(....)) prints to syslong not to the debug.txt. I see mobs_animal is loaded via the syslog file in ubuntu. Daisae: For a certain world running MTG, it is running in creative mode even though the checkbox for creative mode is de-selected. I deactivated all mods and revoked give privilege. What could be causing this? guzzi: orbea, yeah, opensource collaboration can be frustrating. guzzi: I spent 2 to 3 hours over comments and variable names last week. guzzi: And that was after 6 days of debugging just to find the bug. guzzi: luckily i work for a large enough company that they are willing to work on open source upstream bugs. orbea: guzzi: right, I'm tired of project leads wasting my time with non-technical bs...happened with more projects than I can remember sfan5: Daisae: /revoke creative sfan5: if you use /grantme all you will also receive a creative privilege Daisae: Thanks. guzzi: orbea, yeah. I literally said: "please give me a suggested commit on github" guzzi: then magically they just did it. guzzi: its like, dude i spent 6 days finding this now you want to argue about the variable. lol nope. orbea: lol sfan5: orbea: there are certainly things that are worth complaining about but "minetest_game devs agreed that my cleanup PR was not an overall improvement to code quality" is not one of them Daisae: itemstr orbea: sfan5: i wasnt complaining about that, although yea, I spent hours making your code more readable and then you guys complain how its less readable. lol orbea: i did say bug fixes guzzi: yeah i installed mobs_water. I already see some animals guzzi: cool! guzzi: thanks orbea MinetestBot: 02[git] 04dcbrwn -> 03minetest/minetest: Reuse object_shader for "wielditem" and "item" entity drawtypes (#9537) 13cdbe3c5 https://git.io/JfU2c (152020-04-19T16:47:13Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix alias handling of get_content_id (#9712) 13338195f https://git.io/JfUam (152020-04-19T17:07:54Z) begui: Hey, how deep does minetest go? Krock: begui: -30980m or something like that Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! begui: wow begui: I think im in hell begui: this is great xachman: begui: At -650 I finally found mese. Have you found any diamond yet? begui: tons xachman: what depth was that? Wuzzy: xachman: https://wiki.minetest.net/Ores begui: xachman, not so sure but we managed to get to about -7000 xachman: begui: nice! xachman: im at -677 and playing with mod_monsters so its going probably slower Zughy: so guys, anyone worried about Minetest when Hytale gets released? Considering that some MC players are thrilled by the modding system Lone_Wolf: MC modders have no taste. Otherwise they'd be doing MT modding >:) Zughy: :^]. But well, they're pretty famous and huge (I mean the game I mentioned) hisforever: Hi I'm having trouble with digtron mod? here is a screenshot https://imgur.com/a/zrtveXn hisforever: please help Zughy: hisforever, you should ask to the creator of the mod/game hisforever: ghtok thanks Zuh Verticen: I concur with the echo thing, figuring out an effective way to determine if echos should be used could make caves much more ambiant! You would want certian nodes to support echo (stone) and some not to (wool) - this may make for a more complex system than just checking the number of air nodes around the player. freelikegnu: maybe each block reflects or absorbs sound by a non zero amount inversely proportional to th edistance from the player xachman: I mad a bed!!!!!! xachman: made lol freelikegnu: the delay is proportional to distance from the node to the player xachman: Should roll some credits on all those that helped me in this achievement freelikegnu: "Many thanks to all who have cotton me so far" Verticen: freelikegnu there would need to be a cutoff distance though, say 20 nodelengths, else a player outdoors could have sound calculations for thousands of nodes - could be a performance hit. I don't really know how minetest rendering/drawing works though, so it may be easier to do than I think xachman: lol Astrobe: I was thinking more about smthg like if player:get_pos().y < 0 then minetest.reverb(player, true) end with a simple constant reverb effect. Astrobe: You can't get scared of your shadow in MT, but a variable echo would really be problematic for those who rely on sound to spot hostiles. Astrobe: That is, "hear them coming". oil_boi: Is there a way to turn off the terrain generator at a certain level? Or change how it spawns terrain? Never really dove into terrain gen rubenwardy: worst case, you can set everything to air using register_on_generated rubenwardy: forget the name of the callback rubenwardy: you could consider modifying the mapgen noise parameters Astrobe: Or the biome parameters (ymin/ymax) ? Extex: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md Astrobe: Speaking of, if I set node_stone="air", will the dungeons generate in that "stone"? Astrobe: I've just had a weird "spaceship" idea/ Extex: !server addr:extex.minecity.online MinetestBot: Extex: No results Extex: Hmm Astrobe: I guess it won't, but maybe with a node-stone that's exactly like "air" except for the name... oil_boi: rubenwardy, is there a way to generate normally then modify the mapgen params below a certain y coordinate? Noclip: Will the new floatlands still be limited to mapgen v7? argyle: So, I write a book, right, then I throw it out of my inventory (q) onto a table. I want that book / object to persist until someone else finds it. Is there something I set my config to for that to happen? Astrobe: normally those thrown objects disaapear after a duration that can be set in the config, but it might not be a good idea to increase it too much. * Noclip: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zJbTFRhaaupwACFqzhJDcmlZ > Astrobe: You could use bookshelves for that instead. Noclip: item_entity_ttl = 900 Astrobe: Units are seconds. Noclip: ("Time in seconds for item entity (dropped items) to live. Noclip: Setting it to -1 disables the feature. Noclip: type: int") Noclip: I don't know why the bridge said it would be "a long message" as it were just 4 short lines ... oil_boi: How to get map seed? Noclip: What do you mean? The normal map seed is shown ingame in the F5 menu and can also be found in the world's map_meta.txt file if you mean that. Noclip: `cat map_meta.txt | grep ^seed` argyle: Thanks! I'll try "item_entity_ttl = -1". I like the idea of persistence. We'll see if I like the actuality of it? Noclip: As Items are objects keep this one also in mind: * Noclip: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uuHzFtnLCZHBDRmQIqUQNoED > argyle: I'll see messages when objects exceed max_objects_per_block, by default right? argyle: a block is just a block, right? 1 m^2? or a mapblock? Noclip: No, nothing will happen, until you restart the server. But as soon as you do that all items exceeding the value will be deleted and then you will get a message. Noclip: Eventuell reloading the chunks by going away and coming back might also work. Noclip: It's referring to mapblocks. The blocks you're talking about are called nodes in Minetest. Noclip: So (16m)^3 = 4096 m^3 oil_boi: No, how to get map seed through lua api Noclip: Ohh, I already assumed that you meant something different as the question was to easy. 😄 oil_boi: Oof, I just found minetest.get_perlin() this is getting complicated to handle in one instance oil_boi: Damn this seems to be abstract and not allow me to just get the straight world seed, damn Noclip: (I don't know the answere) argyle: gotcha. 16^3 nodes in a block, 64 objects attached to that space. I think I can live with that density? Noclip: *answer Noclip: 64÷4096 = 0,0156 Noclip: So can have 0,0156 objects per node on avarage. Noclip: *So you can have argyle: Beside stuff that you threw down, or is like floating about that you can grab, what counts against those max objects? Noclip: What? I can't understand your first sentence. Can you reformulate it, please? Astrobe: mobs. Leaf decay. argyle: Owned mobs? Astrobe: All mobs Astrobe: missiles too. Noclip: Everything that is technically an object is counted. Noclip: Nearly everything that is not a block is an object in Minetest. oil_boi: >nearly everything Noclip: *that is not a node oil_boi: Everything that isn't a node is an object oil_boi: Except for your hud, huds are cool 8) argyle: Are there unseeable things like behaviors that are objects? Noclip: Clouds are also not nodes or objects. Noclip: Other mods might add some objects which you won't recognize. Astrobe: there's particles and particle spawners but Idon't think they are processed as objects. argyle: I think I will try turning that knob up. Or maybe I will see how many things I can toss in one room. Astrobe: Technically you could make an invisible object entity and attach something to it, which could be seen as a "behavior" object, but that's prolly not what you were thinking about. Noclip: Alternatively you could just use this mod: https://content.minetest.net/packages/zorman2000/itemshelf/ argyle: I dunno, I was just trying to get a feel for if 64 objects in a 4096 cubic meter was a reasonable density of floaty rotating stuff. argyle: Oooh itemshelf looks fun BuckarooBanzai: Hey all, i'm building a kind of "thingiverse" but for minetest: https://blockexchange.minetest.land/#!/schema/BuckarooBanzai/small_landscape let me know what you thing... ;) BuckarooBanzai: !title MinetestBot: BuckarooBanzai: Block exchange Krock: Krock: BuckarooBanzai: there are too many faces on that page Krock: but the render seems to work good so far :D BuckarooBanzai: Krock: yeah, the water looks shitty :P but its a prview after all... BuckarooBanzai: *preview ANAND: BuckarooBanzai: Neato! :) ANAND: Free butterfly included! nephele: For adding sounds to my game, how would i go about doing this, do i need to specify for each node what the sound is? or is there some default value that can be played for i.e walking? sfan5: > do i need to specify for each node what the sound is? sfan5: yes nephele: does mt support wav? nephele: the lua api only mentions ogg nephele: or, more generall which formats are supported? sfan5: ogg Daisae: Is there a way for a player to make cactus grow? Krock: Daisae: place it onto sand next to water MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: script: Move SAO usability check so that it covers all functions (#9698) 1387829cd https://git.io/JfJb6 (152020-04-18T15:21:58Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspec: allow lists to change size and existence while the formspec… 134fb6b6a https://git.io/JfJbi (152020-04-18T15:21:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Apply a scrollbar's default value to scroll containers (#9699) 13241bf44 https://git.io/JfJbP (152020-04-18T15:20:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04HybridDog -> 03minetest/minetest: serverpackethandler: Reduce pkt->getPeerId() invocations and more (#9… 137b57d3f https://git.io/JfJbX (152020-04-18T15:19:53Z) xachman: SO have 2 devices that show glass as black anything I can do about that? rubenwardy: what devices? rubenwardy: what MT version? rubenwardy: what OpenGL versions? xachman: so many questions rubenwardy: yeah rubenwardy: the title bar of MT will say the OpenGL and MT version xachman: dell e4310 lapto xachman: laptop xachman: minetest 5.2 xachman: where do I find this opengl stuff? rubenwardy: it'll be in the title bar when running a game https://rwdy.uk/fXZs3.png rubenwardy: you have to be in a game, mind xachman: 4.6.12559 rubenwardy: huh, that should work rubenwardy: is this the glass in Minetest Game? xachman: yea and all the flowers look like they cards rubenwardy: sounds familiar rubenwardy: the flowers one sounds like #9675 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9675 -- Bug with textures of grass, mushroom and others rubenwardy: can you look in debug.txt for shader errors? rubenwardy: +please :) xachman: yes it looks like that xachman: yea ill get the error where is that debug.txt file normally found rubenwardy: depends on the platoform. Windows would be bin/debug.txt, same folder as minetest.exe. Linux will be ~/.minetest/debug.txt rubenwardy: no idea about snap/apimage/macos xachman: generate_shader(): failed to generate "nodes_shader" rubenwardy: If you have a github account, I'd appreciate if you could post it in that issue xachman: I found it on windows its in the main directory above bin xachman: oh look at that opengl is different on this model its 2.1.0 rubenwardy: if not, please paste bin/gist that line and the surrounding lines (if in doubt, +/- 20) and paste the link rubenwardy: oh ok, that's more like it xachman: lol what do I do about that? rubenwardy: well, for now you can disable shaders rubenwardy: I'm not sure what our minimum OpenGL version is for shaders and such xachman: welp that did fix the cards thing xachman: where does it get the opengl version from? rubenwardy: drivers and hardware xachman: well at least the kids can play and see thru glass. I can look at updating that later. rubenwardy: updating drivers can help, but you often find yourself limited by your hardware rubenwardy: xachman: if the error isn't 0:140: '&&' : wrong operand types no operation '&&' exists tha // ERROR: 0:141: 'vec4' : syntax error syntax error rubenwardy: notice the numbers "140" in particular, then it would be good to see what the error is anyway xachman: rubenwardy: I get error 0:139 incorrect processor directive rubenwardy: that's different, please may you pastebin the relevant section of the log? https://gist.github.com/ Krock: I've seen that issue already rubenwardy: ah Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9675 Krock: writing patch now rubenwardy: I linked that, was wondering if it was the same error Krock: another thing that is probably an easy fix is to accept aliases for get_content_id. seen some issues xachman: Thanks Guys! rubenwardy: xachman: nevermind, it's the same error. No need to submit a log rubenwardy: Krock: wait, it doesn't do that? Krock: only partially. force alias doesn't work Krock: there's also an issue about it Krock: #9632 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9632 -- register_alias_force() breaks get_content_id() rubenwardy: even if the force alias is done before the get_content_id? rubenwardy: thanks Krock: I suspect a malfunction within the force alias Krock: and that get_content_id() is just a follow-up issue Krock: xachman: please change client/shaders/nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl L105 Krock: remove the tailing backslash and move the bottom line to the end of this previous one Krock: does it fix the issue for you? Krock: after this way than booting up my laptop to verify it Krock: s/after/faster/ xachman: ok@ rubenwardy: (also reenable shaders) xachman: ok! xachman: have to install vscode nothing on here but notepad at the moment Krock: notepad is totally fine as long you can edit the text file Krock: it might struggle with the line endings, depending on how it was installed freelikegnu: omg the forum is so painful Krock: freelikegnu: welcome in 2020 xachman: well line endings wont read in notebad xachman: notepad Krock: brb booting laptop freelikegnu: at least there are git repos.. imagine if we were downloading from the forum :p xachman: krock: i made those changes no change DS-minetest: mtg just crashed for me: fireflies, line 82: `minetest.get_node_light(pos) <= 11`; get_node_light returned `nil`, which is documented DS-minetest: edit: crashes every time* freelikegnu: are you saying the fireflies are buggy? DS-minetest: lol, yes orbea: DS-minetest: i wonder if butterflies have the same issue? freelikegnu: if so we may have to use the larval editor orbea: yes, seems both butterflies and firefies work the same way in that regard orbea: if one can crash, tey both probably can... orbea: *they xachman: krock: now its 0:140 incorrect processor directive orbea: DS-minetest: i assume it should look more like tree.lua from default? orbea: local light_level = minetest.get_node_light(pos) orbea: if not light_level or light_level < 13 the xachman: krock: oh wait it fixed it didnt hit ctrl+s * DS-minetest: wonders in what situations the function returns nil Krock: xachman: thanks for the feedback. meanwhile I'm compiling the lastest Minetest version on the laptop to test it... heh. * orbea: guess when the node is not air DS-minetest: orbea: paramtype=="light" is fine orbea: was a naive guess ) orbea: :) Krock: laptop goes "wwooooooooooHHHHHSSSSSSSSSSS" DS-minetest: the digital radiator DS-minetest: aha, the node where on_timer is called is ignore Krock: x86. supports SSE2. that's it :D Krock: this dinosaur gotta live longer than me I suppose DS-minetest: so, does it have feathers? * DS-minetest: still wonders how on_timer could be called on ignore DS-minetest: is this an engine bug? Krock: DS-minetest: there's a bug report about it DS-minetest: :O i've searched but couldn't find anything Krock: or was it AMBs that triggered on ignore? DS-minetest: no, node timer MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Shaders: Complete 478e753. OpenGL 4.3 compatiblity 13c87d52a https://git.io/JfJxj (152020-04-18T16:36:47Z) Krock: oh right. The issue I remember was about ABMs that triggered on nodes that weren't within the defined parameters Krock: sorry, false alert DS-minetest: should I open an issue? DS-minetest: and post the world for reproduction? Krock: are you sure the node timer was started correctly? would be handy to have a mod to reproduce this bug - for example replacing one node with another which then calls to on_timer anyway Krock: use of swap_node and vmanip are invalid DS-minetest: uh, actually I have no idea why this happens DS-minetest: the only mods installed were a simple test mod (for 9708) and the helicopter mod. both mods don't modify the world DS-minetest: and of course the mtg mods DS-minetest: hence making a mod for reproduction would be difficult orbea: would have to try to abuse teh function until it crashes :P orbea: probably easier to just guard against the crash than fix the source reason even if that ltter would be nicer freelikegnu: rubenwardy: how do I get ContentDB to use my "goblins" project instead of "mobs_goblins"? Krock: delete & re-setup freelikegnu: I have not added anything to ContentDB freelikegnu: do you mean I have to delete the forum topic? Krock: no no. can't you specify a custom name? Krock: it has to match the mod name, though. freelikegnu: I was able to set the repo on creation in the ContentDb BuckarooBanzai: i finally managed to create a post in the forums for the blockexchange mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24579 (feedback welcome, if you can access the forums that is...) BuckarooBanzai: !title MinetestBot: socket.timeout: The read operation timed out (file "/usr/lib/python3.6/ssl.py", line 631, in read) nephele: (i guess that is a no, haha) BuckarooBanzai: nephele: works 1 in 3 times... roughly... nephele: Makes users check 3 times, makes 3 times the server load :) nephele: overloaded server makes it more overloaded, untill users give up heh cheapie: Everyone knows the forums are hosted on a C64 with a 1541 by now, so be patient I guess :P BuckarooBanzai: cheapie: C64? how fancy... :) cheapie: Just be glad they have a 1541 now, they were using tape before I think :P nephele: tape is not a bad storage medium BuckarooBanzai: cheapie: "1541"? (maybe i'm not old enough to know that... :P) nephele: it's still used in industrial storage applications, mainly beacuse of the longjevity of data written on it :) sknebel: cheapie: that was the floppy drive for the c64 sknebel: Oops sknebel: BuckarooBanzai: ^^^ BuckarooBanzai: yeah, i googled it: 5¼ disk, before my time then, i started with 3.5" disks... xachman: Is there any way of finding my way back to my house when I get lost sfan5: look in debug.txt for the coordinates where you built things at previously, then teleport there sfan5: that's the cheaty way sfan5: you can also try using a map item to locate it (if you aren't too far from it) xachman: oh would it be in the server logs? sfan5: yes xachman: how doe I see my coordinates in the game? BuckarooBanzai: xachman: press F5 Krock: write a mod that prints it Krock: BuckarooBanzai: 720 KiB ones? BuckarooBanzai: Krock: yes, first those then the 1.44MB variant ;) freelikegnu: would MT even run on a ppc amiga? BuckarooBanzai: freelikegnu: i don't think so... BuckarooBanzai: it has some issues even on a raspberry pi (the client) Krock: Minetest needs quite some RAM and at least some graphics performance, so I don't think it would run ther xachman: sfan5: Thanks I found it! rubenwardy: BuckarooBanzai: you really should use human-friendly sizes! rubenwardy: regarding block exhange rubenwardy: > 364306 rubenwardy: woah that's loads! rubenwardy: wait, it's 364KB BuckarooBanzai: yeah, one of many (little) things on the todo list, currently i'm focusing on function though BuckarooBanzai: size is not really an issue: its saved in chunks of 16^3 nodes and could (in theory) hold a whole server ;) rubenwardy: public domain is not a valid license in a lot of jurisdictions, so is all rights reserved - CC0 should be used instead BuckarooBanzai: hmm, i though public domain == CC0 ...? Calinou: it's not exactly the same thing Calinou: CC0 is a public domain dedication, with a license fallback in jurisdictions where the author can't dedicate something to the public domain voluntarily (like in France) Calinou: the license is very permissive and is close to public domain in practice BuckarooBanzai: *thought BuckarooBanzai: the default license is actually "CC0" just the displayed image shows "public domain", maybe i should write the license name too.... rubenwardy: oh hmm tf2ftw: hi tf2ftw: Whats up with the wiki? Krock: it's not up tf2ftw: Is there a donation link or something so we can keep that thing more stable? Krock: no, but you could try buying a fish trout to slap celeron55 :3 Krock: well actually yes. I think there's something on minetest.net Krock: --> https://www.minetest.net/get-involved/#donate Lapis_Wolf: hello Krock: hello Lapis_Wolf Lapis_Wolf: does anyone know about the new jukebox mod for minetest? Krock: !mod jukebox MinetestBot: Krock: Jukebox [jukebox] by LNJ - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13505 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/jukebox Krock: this one? Lapis_Wolf: that's the one for 5.x right? Krock: 0.5.0-dev and upwards according to init.lua Krock: so yes Lapis_Wolf: i was wondering,i want to add my own songs to it,but i don't know how to convert mp3 files to mono ogg files adfeno: Hi there, if player is wearing a full set of diamond armor and shild, mobs_monster:dungeon_master deals damage only with fireball, while punch has 6 fleshy damage, fireball has 8, and armor: 15 at minimum. benrob0329: Lapis_Wolf, ffmpeg or a front-end (Like WinFF) are your best options Krock: or use Audacity benrob0329: That works too adfeno: "3d_armor" and "shields" mods are used Lapis_Wolf: ok,i figured i may need that so i had already started the download of Audacity adfeno: As far as I understand, fireball shouldn't do damage. Lapis_Wolf: speaking of which, what is the general purpose of Audacity Lapis_Wolf: ? xachman: how do I get soil wet? Extex: Hoe it, and put water near it oil_boi: xachman, I would assume you have to put water near it xachman: ok so yea missed the have to turn it to soil with a hoe part oil_boi: Thanks sfan5 the new collision detection fixes have fixed the issues I bug reported so I removed those videos, it seems to have affected the FPS slightly, but I'll take that over not being able to move around correctly anytime oil_boi: Does anyone know how to make the mapgen stop spawning stone at a certain level? oil_boi: sfan5 an important update actually, I looked through all of my system settings and found that a windows update had enabled my iGPU and Minetest was using it instead of the pci one, the FPS is the same as before you pushed that, sorry about that :L oil_boi: Windows gives me a headache MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Rename "subgame" to "game" in 2 error messages (#9680) 13e88719b https://git.io/JffFA (152020-04-17T06:10:28Z) oil_boi: Is there an easy way to make the client communicate to the server that it's fully loaded in? oil_boi: IE clientside api? ANAND: oil_boi: Communicate what? ANAND: The client is constantly communicating stuff with the server (and vice-versa) ANAND: If you want your client to send custom stuff to the server, you can use mod channels. ANAND: It's like a chat channel for mods, and can be used for data transfer between server mods and CSMs. ANAND: Check out https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4870 oil_boi: Well there is an issue where sometimes the client is not ready to receive data and it throws error 23 oil_boi: I tell the client all nodes that can spawn weather on them and then it handles it from there, the server tells the client which weather it is and the client handles it, etc, etc, but it cannot do that if I get error 23 and it cannot receive data oil_boi: There's got to be some equivalent to on_joinplayer that I'm missing so I can tell the server the client is ready and then send the data oil_boi: 2 generals problem oil_boi: I could write a recursive statement that constantly tries to make the client tell the server that it's ready to go but that would be hectic and ridiculous oil_boi: Then stop the minetest.after_loop once a receive is well received oil_boi: But ANAND this is the simplest way I can see doing this properly https://pastebin.com/raw/MnARAcaB oil_boi: But I don't want that loop to keep running, it'll keep checking the initialize variable no matter what which is no good oil_boi: I actually checked register_on_mods_loaded verses that and register_on_mods_loaded loads right before the server seems to be able to create a modchannel MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Document which noise APIs add world seed to noiseparams seed (#9693) 134e2473e https://git.io/JfJvx (152020-04-17T08:24:51Z) sfan5: oil_boi: if you compile yourself with visual studio you might also get lower fps (though I don't think there's a significant difference) oil_boi: sfan5, that's what I thought but it was just the iGPU, in fact the FPS is actually a bit higher than 5.2.0 sfan5: interesting oil_boi: Which is weird because I thought it was all the same, but I guess you guys managed to make performance a bit better so :thumbs up: sfan5: oh also with MSVC the math optimizations that break collision detection in the first place aren't even enabled oil_boi: So the windows version didn't have the bug? Yay sfan5: ..if you compile yourself yes oil_boi: Weird maaan oil_boi: I just solved the 2 generals problem with one of the strangest codes I've ever written ANAND: oil_boi: Have you tried `ModChannel:is_writable()` ? ANAND: Not sure if that's the solution, but maybe it'll return false if the client isn't ready? ANAND: Also, you can use minetest.after instead of directly using a globalstep to set initialize = true ANAND: It wouldn't make much of a difference, but it'd look cleaner. oil_boi: https://github.com/oilboi/crafter_client/blob/master/init.lua#L27 This is the only solution that seems to work, manually checking if camera is moved into position oil_boi: Then running the rest of the code after oil_boi: Basically doing a client-server handshake oil_boi: If I run a minetest.after function it simply delays loading the client into the world for some weird reason, also I tried it with artificial lag and it seems to not work with the .after statement :( So that hack is in there until there's an official function to initialize a statement when the client fully joins into the world :L ANAND: Does this run only when a client joins? Doesn't on_joinplayer work? ANAND: Oh wait, there's no on_joinplayer in CSM, whoops. oil_boi: Yes it does, and no it doesn't, on_joinplayer calls before clientmods can be loaded sometimes, giving error 23 clientside :( oil_boi: It's a big headache but worth it when it's solved even with hacks ANAND: There's a register_on_modchannel_signal, which seems to hint at the state of the modchannel. Interesting... ANAND: Have you given that a try? Zughy: Hello guys; can be .pot files be set in languages other than English? And is it normal that, even if I change the game language and I reopen it, it keeps showing me my system language for things that should have been translated (in other mods too)? The interface changes tho sfan5: .pot files are the translation templates, they are always in the original language (which is english) sfan5: in-game translations should respect your Minetest language setting unless you are using old mods that use intllib Zughy: so even if I set "Language: it\n" in the .pot file, it doesn't matter? I really didn't want to have English strings in my code sfan5: wait, are you writing a mod that makes use of intllib? Zughy: nope, I'm trying using the 5.0 method oil_boi: ANAND, damn I just tried your idea and thought it would work but it gives the initial problem :( Zughy: I have no intllib in my mod ANAND: Aw man :( oil_boi: Joining a modchannel, modchannel signals, and actually having the client loaded into the environment after all serverside objects are initialized seems to be disconnected oil_boi: >disconnected from eachother, I mean sfan5: 5.0 doesn't use the .pot files (or generally the gettext format) so where are you getting that from? Zughy: ...from mods I thought they were updated Zughy: aaaaaaa ANAND: oil_boi: Tried `ModChannel:is_writable()` yet? ANAND: The server would check if the channel is writable, and then send the client the requested data ANAND: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5770 ANAND: is_writeable*, sorry Zughy: sfan5, do you know any actual mod using the 5.0+ system? I've been looking into ContentDB source codes but without any luck. A practical example of a .tr file would help a lot Zughy: nvm, found it sfan5: comprehensive example: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/locale/default.it.tr oil_boi: ANAND, the only problem with that is I'd have to have the server constantly trying to ping the start signal to the client and then stop when the client pings back and then initialize the distribution of which nodes can be weathered ANAND: Yeah, you're right... ANAND: Re: minetest.after, does the client-side delay still occur if you use minetest.after(0, ...)? oil_boi: It seems to just delay joining the world, but the problem with that is also the initial problem I was having, it could take 5 seconds to join if I set it to 3, 10 seconds if I set it to 5, etc, etc, etc. The main problem is there isn't a minetest.joined_server function I can call so I'm just going to have to leave it as it is for now and then update it in the future. But on the bright side: Time for the nether oil_boi: Clientside is still a baby, but I'm sure within a few months we'll be able to do crazy stuff with it oil_boi: Who knows? We might be able to swap out shaders on the fly to create cool effects nephele: clientside mods? oil_boi: nephele, yes clientside mods oil_boi: I mean, the server modding is awesome don't get me wrong, but there are certain things you can only do on the client consistently and smoothly :D nephele: Well, certainly, but the things i want to do don't have any apis yet :) oil_boi: IE, if the mods that create menus which you can scroll through to get craft recipes were done clientside which is possible now, you could smoothly go page to page without waiting for the server to create it for you nephele: specifically input apis, locking unlocking mouse, camera controll, good stuff :P nephele: Then make it clientside i guess? I don't see much problem having that clientside now oil_boi: nephele, https://i.imgur.com/TTSxSnD.png air is an ore nephele: Would you mind using any useable image hosting service..? oil_boi: Usable? nephele: You know, something that actually sends the image over https? nephele: without forcing me to donload a crapton of unusable JS so i can enjoy the image in a tiny window oil_boi: Also nephele, https://github.com/oilboi/crafter_client/blob/master/player_input.lua simple implementation of clientside player input nephele: no it isn't nephele: there is no keyboard input, you can only get some blessed keys nephele: that doesn't help me at all nephele: I would need an api that is atleast as good as the one gmod has :P oil_boi: You're gonna have a baaad time nephele: okay...? nephele: Do you think it is impossible for minetest to implement new sane apis? becuase i do not oil_boi: No, I do, but it is not currently possible without modifying the source code of the engine nephele: okay...? nephele: >the things i want to do don't have any apis yet :) nephele: i did mean that nephele: :P oil_boi: I see oil_boi: So >Thou art going to have a bad time until implemented into the engine< nephele: No nephele: why would i write a mod that can't be realised? nephele: doesn't make sense to me oil_boi: Bad time :( nephele: how so? nephele: I can do something else :P oil_boi: I dunno, my brain has turned into mush trying to debug randomizing generation of a nether portal nephele: I wonder why there are things like that without having actuall dimensions :P Conradish006: *yawns* Conradish006: Hello everyone! nephele: G'day Conradish006: Keep getting disconnected >_> rubenwardy: is it con-radish or conrad-ish? rubenwardy: I prefer the formre Conradish006: You decide ;) Conradish006: It is the latter Conradish006: Godamn thing changes my emoticons to emojis Conradish006: I swear to God, If I get disconnected one more time, I'll take my modem and dump it into a vat of molten copper nephele: from irc, or from mt? :) Conradish006: IRC sfan5: * Conradish006 has disconnected (Remote host closed the connection). sfan5: don't think it's your modem or internet, rather it's the application deciding to close the connection Conradish006: I dunno Conradish006: I left the computer for one sec nephele: Hit ctrl-c by accident maybe? :) Conradish006: Normally its: * Conradish006 has disconnected (Ping timeout: forever). Conradish006: JK Conradish006: But normally it is due to actually timing out Ingar: it's your ISP hacking your connections nephele: That would mean, at the start of time you connected and at the end of time you timed out Ingar: your using IRC, clearly you're a suspect subversionist nephele: Ingar: subversion?? we use git here! Conradish006: Sh*tposting channel now Ingar: nephele: exactly! nephele: I started a shitposting channel on matrix and accidentally got 100% technical audience and got a tech channel Conradish006: LOL Conradish006: Anybody know a good mechanical keyboard? Conradish006: I'm looking at a Razer one nephele: most are mechanical :D nephele: I assume you mean that it doesn't use a rubber keymap, i think cherry produces some but i dont know which are good (want to obtain one with subms latency but havent checked yet which qualify) Conradish006: I thought about getting the Corsair K70 with the Cherry MX Browns Conradish006: But that is $175 Conradish006: And I don't wanna spend that much for a keyboard Astrobe: sub-ms ? Your typical reaction time is ~200ms and if you type at sub-ms speed your fingers won't last long. Noclip: Playing Minetest on a digital keyboard sounds like fun ... Astrobe: Maybe that's even faster than sound. Noclip: How about buying a used one? Conradish006: I never thought about that Conradish006: Not sure how good of an idea that would be Noclip: I it with my laptop (a Thinkpad) and I'm 100% satisfied with it. Conradish006: What Thinkpad do you have? Conradish006: I have a T470 and the keyboard is very good Conradish006: Not as good as my old Latitude E4640 Noclip: X230 Tablet Noclip: It mainly bought it for studying but while it doesn't have graphics card it's still good enough to run Minecraft and Minetest with an acceptable performance. (The tablet functionality makes it possible for me to replace paper.) Conradish006: I loved my old Latitude Conradish006: I had to ditch it about 5 years ago Conradish006: It was too old Conradish006: It had a Centrino vPro and some Nvidia GPU Conradish006: I got my T470 a couple of months ago Conradish006: It has a 7600U, 16 GB of RAM, 512 GB NVMe, Windows 10 Pro Conradish006: It's only a dual core Conradish006: But it's a beast of a dual core Conradish006: It has a slot for a 2.5" SSD or HD Conradish006: So I might toss in a 1 TB SATA SSD for extra storage Noclip: Well I think dual core isn't bad for minetest :joy: Noclip: *😂 Noclip: I assume you bought it new? Conradish006: No Conradish006: Second-hand for $325 with a dock Conradish006: I sold the dock Conradish006: It has a Thunderbolt 3 port, which makes it so I can use it with my three monitor setup Noclip_: Well $325 sounds pretty good. Noclip_: The Matrix bridge seems to be a bit overloaded again so I'm now using Webchat. Conradish006: $325 is a very good price considering the cheapest I could find a used T470 elsewhere was no cheaper than $450 Conradish006: And they were the Core i5 models too Conradish006: There were no i7, 16 GB of RAM, with an NVMe for less than $650 Noclip_: It seems to be receiving my messages exactly 4 minutes after I sent them and after 5 minutes it wouldn't bridge them over to irc anymore ... Conradish006: oof Noclip_: And then then there are people spending over 1000$/€ for a smartphone ... Daisae: Is this the right channel for people developing modules? Noclip_: Partly Daisae: Do files of the same path and name in a module automatically override game files? Can I patch games that way? sfan5: what's a "module"? Daisae: I am thinking of the Lua server side mods. Noclip_: "Mods (short for modifications or modules) are user-created modifications to the game in such a way that adds to or alters the gameplay." Noclip_: (source: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mod) Astrobe: You should try it sfan, it is a wonderful thing :-) sfan5: Daisae: then the answer is no Daisae: Thanks. Noclip_: There is also #minetest-mod-dev but that one has only 11 users ... Noclip_: sfan5: Are you saying that patching games is not possible or that doing that by just using the same path isn't possible? sfan5: you can only patch what the engine and game API (or internals, if they are exposed) allow you to sfan5: swapping out files in games would be terribly unportable anyway Noclip_: But games are just collections of mods so they are also using the same API. sfan5: that doesn't necessarily mean that the game has an API for its own mechanisms Noclip_: Does the builtin API allow mods to overwrite or deactivate other mods or parts of them? Noclip_: There are for example several tnt mods which seem to overwrite the behaviour of tnt. DS-minetest: you can override many of the things that were created with core.register_* DS-minetest: eg. override_item DS-minetest: and you can replace global functions and tables by overriding them in lua Noclip_: Why are some builtin mapgen features like caverns or floatlands (which isn't available in 5.2) restricted to some mapgens? Astrobe: prolly because those features are part of what the C++ mapgen does. Astrobe: Another example is mgv6 and rivers. Noclip_: But aren't caverns indipendent of the rest of the mapgen? Noclip_: I mean they're already part of several very different mapgens. Noclip_: Who is hosting Mesehub (https://git.minetest.land)? cheapie: You know, I've somewhat disagreed before with what the engine considers a "suspiciously large amount of objects", but I think what I just saw here counts regardless :P cheapie: 2020-04-17 17:00:56: ERROR[Server]: suspiciously large amount of objects detected: 29324 in (-200,1,-302); removing all of them. Krock: I bet you're glad the engine did that for you rubenwardy: jesus Krock: Noclip_: most connections I've found point towards Wuzzy, but the domain is owned by DrFrankenstone, so it could also be him.. dunno Krock: website is an iframe from https://buildingwithblocks.info/ cheapie: I did find the problem that created all of those - it's on one of the really old gas pump systems that doesn't have a limit, and someone pumped like 9 million liters... and every time the display updates on those really old ones, the price signs do too, and being in that weird half-loaded state they couldn't delete their old entities when making new ones. cheapie: The newer gas pump systems do have a limit (100 of whatever unit you use) and are a little smarter about display handling, but I can't just make everyone update theirs. cheapie: The whole place it's at is just a mess - apparently the gas station is called "BFS", and then there's another sign under that that just says "I wANt tO kiLL yOU. hAHa"... not weird at all, that one. cheapie: Then there are two car wash vacuums next to it with a sign saying "Vaculuml kwjy lk" and a second sign that just says "stew" texmex: ”Mods” meaning modification only makes sense if there’s an original game being modified. Unless messing around MTG nothing is being modified in that sense. ”Modules” does make sense. Daisae: What happens if there is play in a world which uses Mobs Redo and then later the mob mods are removed? Krock: a bunch of unknown objects Krock: and unknown items, such as nets or eggs Astrobe: I'd like to see season changes without massive node updates, What about using animated textures, and index the frame based on the day count / 32 ? Krock: frame indices are client-side Krock: you could make the delay really high, but it won't be synced Krock: alternatively, use palette coloring and change param2 of the node per mapblock Krock: basically one huge vmanip area Astrobe: Still a map update. There's no node property that indirectly refers to a global variable ? Krock: no Krock: actually "yes" would be the correct answer Krock: or "your assumption in the question is correct" Krock: erlehmann: interesting quit message Astrobe: English language is lacking something like the french "si!" or the german "doch!", hence the complications... Astrobe: I tried to change the snow cover by atlering the dirt and grass spread, introducing a condition based on get_heat() + sin(get_heat()). Astrobe: I t didn't look pretty cause the nodes were turning to dirt before turning to snow or grass, Astrobe: but thinking about it seeems to me that both ABMs could be merged into one, and there could be some opportunities there. Krock: with ABMs the server will suffer a little forever. with entire mapblock updates it'll suffer a lot for a very short time (20ms ?) Daisae: ModPacks can not be nested, I see. Krock: Minetest does internally not know about modpacks so yes Astrobe: In that case though, a progressive transition is actually kind of what you want. You don't want all the snow to melt all at once. Astrobe: I see the ABM intervals in MTG don't use the trick consisting in using prime numbers to spread the load. I infer that the engine already does something about this ? Krock: no it doesn't tf2ftw: hi everyone Krock: hi alone tf2ftw: is there an "auto swing" key similar to automove ? Krock: what does it do? tf2ftw: I want to hit a key and have the "fist" swing without me having to hold the mouse key down Astrobe: For use with a weapon, like a sword ? Krock: doesn't exist Astrobe: I think I became addicted to screenshot since I learned how to use them as the game menu background. sfan5: no idea what I'm doing at this point: https://0x0.st/iQ78.mp4 Zughy: sfan5, well, those are some giant water drops freelikegnu: I love it sfan5 Astrobe: It needs more lava though. freelikegnu: rainbow colors freelikegnu: does tenplus1 not hang out here? sfan5: !seen tenplus1 MinetestBot: sfan5: tenplus1 was last seen at 2020-04-12 16:45:27 UTC on #minetest-hub sfan5: hm not sure if he joins this channel sfan5: but he's only on IRC once in a while either way freelikegnu: cool thanks freelikegnu: it feels good to work on my goblins again guzzi: came here to see how the servers are holding up for the forum and wiki MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: fix handling non-latin characters on older Android devices (… 1323c6d0c https://git.io/JfJ2S (152020-04-17T21:46:30Z) xachman: Why is my cotton taking forever to grow Daisae: xachman: do you see it growing at all? xachman: yea its done like 2 stages xachman: does it only grow when im online? xachman: and im assuming it has white fluffy things on it when its done rubenwardy: roughly and yes rubenwardy: it grows when you're offline, but not when the server isn't running rubenwardy: so in singleplayer, it won't grow when you're not running minetest rubenwardy: as the world is paused then xachman: yes i have this running in a docker container on my server here at home rubenwardy: oh nice rubenwardy: it should work rubenwardy: I'll check how long cotton takes to grow Daisae: and you must be within a certain distance of the cotton. If you are far away, it won't grow. rubenwardy: I'm pretty sure farming has catch up code? rubenwardy: or maybe that's just the furnat rubenwardy: it should take 226 seconds per stage, and there's 8 stages rubenwardy: and that's only during daytime xachman: ok rubenwardy: Minetest days are 72x shorter than IRL days rubenwardy: so 30 minutes with permanent day Astrobe: it catches up "once", so it won't jump two stages when you come back, just one. xachman: so im assuming offline is too far away xachman: I have to watch it grow I was hopping I could hop offline then get back on and be like cotton! xachman: where do you get wool to make a bed? rubenwardy: from cotton xachman: ok yea this bed thing way harder than minecraft lol. xachman: Kinda nice you really make your bed and sleep in it here rubenwardy: looks like minecraft is similar, but with sheep? rubenwardy: so actual wool xachman: yea funny thing is im running mod_animals but I think mod_monsters just keeps killing them all rubenwardy: lol freelikegnu: would it be to expensive to have a sound reflectivity/absorption value for nodes? rubenwardy: it would be super nice but also probably quite expensive rubenwardy: I wonder if there are sound mapping techniques Astrobe: it's probably like raycasting. freelikegnu: amplitude falloff (depending on density of media like air or water), xachman: oh yea how is the rtx update going guys? Astrobe: At least you don't have refraction with sound... I think ? Astrobe: Actually there probably is, but few people have heard about it. Ha! rubenwardy: it depends how much you want to do it rubenwardy: super realisitic, and you'd want indirect rays to perform echos rubenwardy: I kinda want to write this now rubenwardy: actually, I can sense the pain Astrobe: lol xachman: well I finally got some cotton xachman: got my one block of wool from cotton freelikegnu: going from a sound absorbing environment above ground into a cave with reflective walls could be really emotive xachman: its the bed challenge freelikegnu: achievement unlocked xachman: oh man xachman: really this could be an achievement xachman: achievements thats a pretty good idea anyone mod that or do we have something like that? freelikegnu: mineclone2 has them xachman: ok cool ill have to spin up another container with that then freelikegnu: also rubenwardy's awards: https://github.com/rubenwardy/awards freelikegnu: oops this is moved to https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/awards rubenwardy: github is a mirror rubenwardy: but gitlab is the proper location freelikegnu: it is a bit sad that sound is often under appreciated compared to visuals in games rubenwardy: yeah, it makes sense as sound is harder to see freelikegnu: %\. Astrobe: A reverb effect could be nice for the caves example. Not ideal, but affordable I guess ? I don't know if standard sound libraries have that sort of feature. mmuller: FWIW, digital delay is very cheap to implement and makes a very nice echo. freelikegnu: may be something like get theamount of air nodes around a player in a 10x10 area if its less than a certain number add some delay and repeat the sound with amplitude based on the average number of crumpy verses crackly nodes in that area/direction? freelikegnu: it could also be fun to use the raycasting to ping nodes and listen for feeback, maybe even good enough for playing blind * oil_boi: tries to figure out how to compile without -ffast-math MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Optimize get_objects_inside_radius calls (#9671) 13e8ac5a3 https://git.io/JffUu (152020-04-16T06:25:48Z) Extex: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md Extex: !server addr:extex.minecity.online MinetestBot: Extex: No results Extex: Oof Andrey01: Hello, I`ve lost sight of my built city on a map as to my surprising I was spawned after a start quite in other spot. I know which blocks the city consists of. Are there any ways quickly to look for it? Noclip: On default logging settings the server seems to write every change you're doing to the world into the debug.txt file. Here is an example: Noclip: "ACTION[Server]: singleplayer places node default:meselamp at (1644,-2033,5141)" Noclip: As you can see it also contains the coordinates of the node you changed. This way you should be able to quickly get the coordinates of your built city. Andrey01: Noclip: thanks, I`ll try! Noclip: In case you can't find those logs anymore (maybe they have been deleted already) I have another idea for you: Make a COPY of your world, create a new world with the singlenode mapgen, move the new world's map_meta.txt file into the folder of the copied world (overwriting the existing map_meta.txt file) and then delete the new world you've just created. Now join the copied world and grant yourself the fly and fast priviliges Noclip: Now you can fly around and search your city. As all newly generated chunks will consist completely of air it should be easy for you to see where you've already been and where not. After you've found your city write down the coordinates, delete the copied world, join your original world again and walk to those coordinates. Noclip: WARNING: Don't do any of those changes to your original world as it would get completely destroyed otherwise!!! Noclip: I think I will try that myself just for fun 😄. ANAND: Neat idea MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Swap out -ffast-math for a safe subset of optimization flags (#9682) 135cbe843 https://git.io/JffLu (152020-04-16T08:23:48Z) Noclip: ANAND: Ohh shit the water starts filling the empty space at the edges of the ocean! Noclip: A new ocean is beeing created! 😂 ANAND: haha Andrey01: Noclip: fortunately, I have debug.txt available Andrey01: And how I`ve understood from your suggested idea, does map_meta.txt save only mapgen itself with no saving any changes? Noclip: Andrey01: Yes, map_meta.txt only saves the mapgen configuration of your world. It's created directly at the beginning together with world.mt (even before you join the world the first time) and then normally should never change again. Noclip: So by overwriting the map_meta.txt with the singlenode one you're basically overwriting the mapgen configuration of your world so that new chunks will then be generated with the new mapgen configuration (singlenode). Andrey01: What does world.mt save also? Noclip: The answer just stands inside the file: * Noclip: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TEHuIyXBxHHDUBJhJDBpUHxd > Andrey01: Ah, config options Noclip: In defference to map_meta.txt changing world.mt after playing in the world isn't very uncommon. If you switch for example creative mode on or off it will get written to the file. Same for changing mods later. Andrey01: Noclip: and still a question about other file, map.sqlite, is it different from the rest map files in what it saves still map changes besides the mapgen config itself or only map changes? Noclip: map.sqlite contains the map itself. Noclip: Every generated and placed node of the entire map is saved in map.sqlite. This makes map.sqlite the most important but also the biggest file of your world. Andrey01: Well, ok, thanks for detailed info * cheapie: grumbles a bit about WE's //highlight and //restore being so insanely slow cheapie: As in "several minutes to process only about 100k nodes" slow. Daisae: Running 5.2.0, I tried mgv6_spflags = flat and mgflat_spflags=hills , as documented in the wiki, with those MGs to get slightly hilldy terrain. The settings had no visible effect. sfan5: what is mg_name set as in your map_meta.txt? Daisae: sfan5: in map_meta.txt mgflat_spflags = nolakes, nohills ; mg_name = flat Daisae: even though Minetest ran with mgflat_spflags=hills Daisae: I will try again with a minetest.conf which only has that setting. Daisae: When I do that, there is no mgflat_spflags in meta.txt and no hills in the world. sfan5: Daisae: no idea about the minetest.conf setting but mgflat_spflags=hills in map_meta.txt definitely works Daisae: Editing map_meta.txt and setting it there does work for me also. Thanks for clearing that up. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Camera: Fix shooting line offsets (#9681) 1345999b7 https://git.io/Jff2R (152020-04-16T16:32:07Z) argyle: I'm having trouble with mobs. There are way to many of them. I've tried adjusting the Mob chance multiplier, but it doesn't seem to have any effect. Krock: I bet they won't disappear automatically if they're over the configured limit orbea: Krock: maybe this: orbea: # If true Mobs will be removed once a map chunk is out of view orbea: remove_far_mobs (Remove far Mobs) bool tru Krock: I have absolutely no clue what mobs mod they use, but yes, maybe. freelikegnu: the chance setting is inverse with mobs_redo so higher value = less chance argyle: Thank freelikegnu. That appears to have been my issue. freelikegnu: it's not intuitive, it was confusing to me too freelikegnu: even though its a practical setting argyle: I couldn't even really tell by looking at the code. freelikegnu: think of it like: math.random(1, in_chance_value) Daisae: VanessaE: Is there a simple way to see which repository each of the mods in DreamBuilder came from? freelikegnu: even though its between math.random(lower_bound upper_bound) argyle: I'm having another issue as well. I can't seem to turn off damage. The enable_damage setting only seems to effect whether the number of hearts you have is hidden or not. I'm still dying either way. freelikegnu: you can set it out of game in the game loader screen iirc sfan5: argyle: do you happen to use 3d_armor? argyle: yes sfan5 sfan5: that's a bug in 3d_armor, you need to apply this patch https://github.com/stujones11/minetest-3d_armor/pull/170 argyle: okay thank. I'll give it a try. sfan5: or just switch to https://github.com/mt-mods/3d_armor which is apparently maintained argyle: That did the trick! Thank you! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: fix formspec input for AArch64 devices (#9685) 1357038b3 https://git.io/JffwI (152020-04-16T17:19:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop -Wabi useless flag (#9676) 13093e79e https://git.io/JffwG (152020-04-16T17:21:47Z) misspapaya: Is there a way I can check my lava generation settings? We can't find lava anywhere and we went down to -1500 to verify freelikegnu: misspapaya: what map generator are you using? misspapaya: freelikegnu: v7 freelikegnu: hmm that mapgen has laval by default... are you able to check with fly and noclip priveledges? misspapaya: I just realized everythign mapgen related is commented out freelikegnu: o: misspapaya: at least in minetest.conf misspapaya: okay yeah if I noclip and look around there's no lava freelikegnu: I wonder if lava is disabled if mg_flags = nocaves misspapaya: okay I found some misspapaya: it's just way far away from spawn MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Add an option to disable unittest build, & disable them on Docker bui… 137539267 https://git.io/JffoH (152020-04-16T18:43:49Z) kaeza: hi sfan5: hello kaeza: been a while since I last visited. how's things? rubenwardy: oh hi kaeza kaeza: hello rubenwardy xachman: Hey guys where do I find cotton? kaeza: last I played, it was near jungles IIRC xachman: Thanks! Ill look there. kaeza: np :) xachman: Also like can you change the spawn location? kuba_orlik: Hi there! I've just installed mobs_animal, but I've been looking around for hours and didn't find any :< I've confirmed with /mods that the mod is enabled. What am I doing wrong? xachman: Oh man yea I installed mobs_monsters with mobs_animals and im pretty sure I saw one sheep then none ever kaeza: xachman, search for "spawn" in minetest.conf. kaeza: isn't that in a FAQ somewhere? Daisae: https://wiki.minetest.net/Cotton Daisae: xachman: you find cotton seed. Daisae: and you do not find cotton seed by finding cotton. That is tricky. Daisae: Was night made brighter? It seems that way. hisforever: Hi I'm having trouble with digtron, hear is a screen shot https://imgur.com/a/alf8M5e xachman: Thanks @Daisae xachman: I was wondering if you could change the spawn point in game or something xachman: I suppose its fine I can find my way back to where I was when I died Daisae: xachman: You can change the spawn point by sleeping in a bed. I don't know whether you need to leave the bed there. I think not. Daisae: Whether that changes the spawn point is a setting in minetest.conf. Default is that it changes, IIRC. xachman: ok thats what I was thinking but I have not made my bed yet so I did not know Daisae: There are other ways to change the spawn point, but the bed makes for the best game play, i think. oil_boi_: sfan5: Hopefully that video I posted in the comments of the Github Collision Detection issue will help with the debugging of the new issue oil_boi_: I'm honestly not sure how I could help with it any further oil_boi_: I cannot figure out how to disable the fast-math flag as I cannot find the documentation on it :( nissiel: hello Lapis_Wolf: I am a dedicated player of Minetest and have been for many years,at minimum since 0.4.14-16(it's been a while so I can't remember the exact version. Now,I wish to report what I believe may be a bug in 5.2.0 and possibly from earlier 5.x versions. Is this the chat where I report bugs?? ANAND: MT's official issue tracker is on GH: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues ANAND: But if you're unable to file a bug report on GH, I think it's perfectly alright to report it here Lapis_Wolf: Thank you very much. Btw, I love everything that has been done with the game over the years, you all are amazing people! :D ANAND: I hope I'm not included in the "you all are amazing people!" :P ANAND: I'm assuming you're referring to the devs when you say that oil_boi_: Everyone that positively improves minetest as a whole engine or game wise is a good person oil_boi_: Also ANAND I'm very curious, what is the issue? ANAND: oil_boi_: What issue? Lapis_Wolf: You all applies to devs,mod makers,game makers, texture creators,players,etc who help with the game. oil_boi_: Oops wrong person sorry ANAND, Lapis_Wolf what was the issue? ANAND: Ah ok :) Lapis_Wolf: I noticed that when I have damage disabled in any world, mobs will still come up, attack and damage/kill me while there is no healthbar at the bottam ANAND: Weird oil_boi_: Sounds like the mobs mod is decreasing a nonexistant value then running the kill function ANAND: Lapis_Wolf: Did you try updating your mod? There might be newer versions of the mod released to fix this bug. Lapis_Wolf: it happened with the not so simple mobs mod and all other mobs mods i have Lapis_Wolf: found the best spawn point ever,it's literally all ocean,no land exists... oil_boi_: minetestbot oil_boi_: @minetestbot oil_boi_: minetestbot help oil_boi_: :( Ruslan1: I tried to login to minetest forums and it said You exceeded the maximum allowed number of login attempts. In addition to your username and password you now also have to solve the CAPTCHA below. MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Verify database connection on interval (#9665) 135c588f8 https://git.io/JfvsX (152020-04-15T06:01:11Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix parsing JSON with large integers (#9674) 138ae8c16 https://git.io/JfvsF (152020-04-15T06:01:28Z) Daisae: How can one identify unknown items in inventory or the world? Such as to see their item string. sfan5: tooltip_append_itemname = true probably does what you need Daisae: Yes, thanks. tf2ftw: is there a setting to control swing speed? lmat: Lapis_Wolf: Are you saying that animals inflict damage when damage is disabled? And this is a bug? lmat: tf2ftw: What is swing? tf2ftw: "fist" tf2ftw: lmat, the speed in which a tool or fist is moving calcul0n: tf2ftw, maybe with full_punch_interval in tool_capabilities, not sure what it does Daisae: Krock: Last June p_gimeno made a patch to make placed leaves decay. You were talking about it with us also. SmallJoker made a patch to accomodate some needed override. Daisae: Now using that as a module causes an error : attempt to index global 'default' (a nil value) Daisae: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/Gists/raw/minetest--mod-force-leaf-decay/init.lua Daisae: Do you know, off-hand what the problem is? there was a function addressing default.after_place_leaves . I guess it is related to that. orbea: Daisae: you have the full error message? orbea: complete with line numbers? what MTG version? ANAND: Daisae: The error message seems to hint that the `default` table itself seems to be missing. Have you added `default` as a dependency to your mod? Daisae: ModError: Failed to load and run script from ~/.minetest/mods/decay/init.lua: Daisae: ~/.minetest/mods/decay/init.lua:19: attempt to index global 'default' (a nil value) Daisae: stack traceback: ~/.minetest/mods/decay/init.lua:19: in main chunk Daisae: That is all. Daisae: It has no dependency file. That is needed? ANAND: Daisae: Try adding the following to the mod's mod.conf `depends = default` ANAND: Yes ANAND: If the file doesn't exist, simply create one ANAND: See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L163 Daisae: That got rid of the error message. I'm testing it now. Daisae: it works Ruslan1: I tried to login to minetest forums and it said You exceeded the maximum allowed number of login attempts. In addition to your username and password you now also have to solve the CAPTCHA below. sfan5: and? Ruslan1: I can’t login sfan5: and did you solve the captcha? Ruslan1: Yes Ruslan1: It did keep going Ruslan1: sfan5 it did keep going sfan5: well no idea then Ruslan1: sfan5: can you try login my account sfan5: login attempts are probably per IP address, so that will work Ruslan1: sfan5: ok it still says You exceeded the maximum allowed number of login attempts. In addition to your username and password you now also have to solve the CAPTCHA below. Ruslan1: sfan5: can you please let owner know about my account sfan5: there is no problem with your account sfan5: and I have no idea what I can do to fix the captcha for you Ruslan1: sfan5: yes Ruslan1: Should I make new account? sfan5: if you wait a while you should be able to log in again Ruslan1: Are you fixing it MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest: Android: add Android Studio support, completely redone java part (#9066) 1362ae7ad https://git.io/Jfvw1 (152020-04-15T14:27:40Z) Ruslan1: sfan5: if I fail to login then I cannot login anymore sfan5: yes I know what your problem is sfan5: try waiting a day Ruslan1: How much days Ruslan1: sfan5: how many days sfan5: one Henson: is there a way to change a players name on a server, specifically the name that appears over their head? ANAND: Henson: You'll need a mod to do that. ANAND: See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5895 for the API function to be used Ruslan1: sfan5: I still have login attempts Henson: ANAND: thank you. Do you know much about minetest internals? ANAND: Not too much I'm afraid. But I can manage to find my way around. :) Telesight: Hello all ... Telesight: Why is it that my Minetest client uses my CPU at 100% ? sfan5: in which situation? Telesight: Always ... after 1 or 2 minutes after starting Minetest Telesight: This use of 100% of a CPU makes fanless laptops shutdown after 10 minutes playing Minetest texmex: Telesight: macOS user? Performance absolutely sucks on that platform. Telesight: No, I am a full Ubuntu server ;-) sfan5: 100% of a single thread? or multiple? do you still reach 60 FPS when that happens? Telesight: I have 12 processors in my systemmonitor, and the load of 100% is changed to another thread after 30 seconds or so. But a small laptop gets overheated and shuts down. Telesight: My player stands still in the game, no moving ... Telesight: fps is 58 sfan5: hm then it's probably not busy doing anything useful sfan5: any special settings in your minetest.conf? Telesight: WEll, let me see .. Noclip: Could it be related to any mod that you are using which has for example a bug and no goes crazy? Telesight: Noclip then it would be server dependend ? Noclip: Does this happen in multi- or singleplayer? Noclip: (Or in other words: Is the server running on the same machine?) Telesight: No, the client is connected to one of these idiotic *** by Telesight servers Ingar: what kind of CPU ? Telesight: Intel® Core™ i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz × 12 Ingar: it's all them bug mitigations eating ur CPU :p Noclip: Telesight: I would try the following: Restart Minetest with a 100% clean minetest.conf file and then create and join a new Minetest Game world without any additional mods. If then the issue still occures we know that it's not caused by your minetest.conf or any mods. Also telling us your Minetest version might help. Ingar: and, imho, if your PC dies with a single process doing 100% : RMA it Telesight: Noclip: an empty minetest.conf ? Telesight: Client version 5.0.1 Noclip: `/mv ~/.minetest/minetest.conf ~/.minetest/minetest.conf.bak` Noclip: Do that and then start Minetest again. It should then create a new minetest.conf. Telesight: Ok, new minetest.conf, new local world, no mods: CPU's are now on max 40% Telesight: When I fly CPU goes over 80% sfan5: it's generating the map so that doesn't sound entirely unexpected Telesight: Player stands still now, and stil CPU over 80% Krock: definitely not normal. my E8500 doesn't even each 40% when flying Noclip: I'm currently standing still in a MineClone 2 world and I'm also at around 40% CPU usage. Krock: also how is your CPU usage at 80% if Minetest only makes use of one core, i.e. 1/6th? Krock: Telesight: what does htop/taskmanager tell you? sfan5: standing idle, 60 FPS is about ~55% on one core here Telesight: htop: Minetest 76% Krock: since which client version? Krock: does 5.3.0-dev solve your problems? Krock: bad GPU driver? Telesight: I see this since a few months, so after 5.0 Krock: 5.1.0 you mean? Krock: 5.0 is already out for a long time Telesight: Cleint 5.0.1 Noclip: One of my 4 threads is often at 100% but it's changing very quickly. Overall still 40% to 50%. Also Minetest isn't the only programm running right now. Krock: Telesight: so what about 5.3.0-dev? Krock: try/error until the problem's found Telesight: I compiled the client 5.3.0.dev but it gave 100% CPU use too Krock: with some luck it fixes itself by a software update Krock: and it wasn't a problem with - say - 0.4.17.1 ? Krock: or rather: still isn't orbea: Telesight: git bisect :) Telesight: hmmm I have not checked that at that time, but is on 3 different laptops now Telesight: So it is not laptop dependent Noclip: Telesight: Was 76% the average cpu usage or the usage of one core / thread? Krock: anything else is not possible. Minetest cannot use more than one core Telesight: 1 thread and after a minute or so the next tthread gets te load Noclip: As I've said, one of my threads was often at 100% but it was always just one (as Krock said it can't use more) and it changed at least as fast as htop updated it. Maybe that's just normal?! Noclip: Telesight: Was one of those laptops a gaming laptop with a good graphics card (supported by appropriate drivers)? Telesight: I do have a good machine with an nVidia card that gives problems with Ubuntu, so I use the Intel GPU Noclip: So the NVidia card is completely unused? Can you give us more information about the Intel GPU? Telesight: Yep, I always had problems with those nVidia cards on other laptops, never solved the problem .. Telesight: Intel® UHD Graphics 630 (Coffeelake 3x8 GT2) pipo: Hi Telesight ... thought it was in the minetest.dev channel :) Telesight: No I never enter that ;-) Telesight: pipo; What is your CPU usage for Minetest? pipo: hmmm ... just logged out ... moment ... pipo: Telesight: 10-12 percent on NAIB pipo: Telesight: while i am alone on it and not moving Noclip: I've closed all major programms, started Minetest (5.2.0) with a new minetest.conf file and created a new Minetest Game world. While standing still one of my threads also had around 40% usage. While flying around it was between 60% and 80% and after increasing the few distance to 600 (still flying) it was between 80% and 100%. Telesight: Noclip: looks likes my results ... pipo: Telesight: if i start moving ... depending on the environment ... 25 percent on NAIB pipo: not moving ... viewing range reduced to 40 ---- 6 percent Noclip: After flying a while I activated unlimited viewing range and looked back at all the generated terrain. The cpu thread in use now keept at 100% and my fps dropped to just 7. pipo: same place, still not moving ... viewing range set to 100 --- 18 percent pipo: with HexChat and 3 terminal open at the same time pipo: what i saw ... it depends on the map area you are in ... if i am in/above dense jungle wood areas ... RAM usage and CPU usages goes up DS-minetest: disable fancy leaves for faster jungles Telesight: Go, hoover above water that will do something ... Noclip: However my laptop's cpu temperature seemed to be stable at around 70°C which is still far under the critical temperature (100°C) so it's not really problem for me. Interestingly at the same time also the other cpu threads seemed to get up to around 40% to 60%. Telesight: This behavior kills cheaper fanless laptops Noclip: pipo: Jungle can really be a pain for performance ... pipo: switched on noclip, fly, viewing range > 400 AND unlimited viering range ... it still stays below 50 percent CPU, but RAM fills up quickly now ... and fans start running Telesight: Same server, for me it is above 80% CPU Noclip: My laptop was very cheap but I bought it as used and it's already very old. When it was new it was very expensive. Luckilly it has a fan. It's also definitely not a gaming device, it doesn't even have a graphics card ... pipo: this area has a lot of water in it ... maybe that makes a difference? * DS-minetest: was using a viewing range of 5 with his old pc; foggy wielded items Noclip: I think it really depends on the power of the computer and not on minetest ... Telesight: My view always been at 4000 ... on every server pipo: Telesight: that's a normal client machine, you are not playing on directly on the server which holds the complete map? Telesight: Yes with a normal client connected to a server DS-minetest: it's no wonder that you've got bad performance when you always play minetest with such a high viewing range :P DS-minetest: just turn it down Telesight: I have to watch all those little griefers with my sharp eyes ... DS-minetest: ¿ Telesight: And I do this for 5 years or so ... DS-minetest: you could connect with multiple clients and attach those to the players you want to watch pipo: still on NAIB ... CPU usage below 10 percent ... but /spawn or /home sooems to MOVE me, but the map does not render! pipo: *seems Telesight: SkyWars has 60% CPU and 66 players ... so it seems not a server problem ... * pipo: is just below Telesight on NAIB now .. 28 percent CPU ... Lapis_Wolf: that explains why his/her name is Telesight DS-minetest: new mod: https://github.com/Desour/random_horse Telesight: Lapis what explains what? pipo: lol Lone_Wolf: waitwat lol Lone_Wolf: That mod looks like it'd be fun in singleplayer Lone_Wolf: *multiplayer Lone_Wolf: Autotype is weird today DS-minetest: mod only works in multiplayer DS-minetest: one can't ride themselves adfeno: Hi, how to monitor which things in a server are causing lag? Krock: missing sit animation, DS-minetest sfan5: the profiler Krock: there are multiple profilers actually Krock: the mod profiler is probably the one you need Noclip: Telesight: I think he means that watching "all those little griefers with [your] sharp eyes" explains you name "Telesight": You have such a good sight as if you would use a telescope. adfeno: Krock: Was the "mod profiler" suggestion to me? Krock: # profiler.load = false Krock: see minetest.conf.example Telesight: Noclip You are very close ... Krock: you can run the chat command in-game to get a mod execution time report Krock: (the chat command = "/profiler save FORMAT") Andrey01: hello, I have a problem: I run minetest-5.2.0-dev-2907c0f3 build and after I had installed the stable 5.2.0 (other minetest) and wanted to run again that unstable, the maps of ALL my current worlds were re-generated! I`m confused why? Krock: don't run two instances in parallel Lapis_Wolf: @Telesight your view range of 4km(4000 blocks=4000m) Andrey01: Krock: but why can I not run two minetests simultaneously? * pipo: is off ...bye everyone Krock: Andrey01: not on the same map. one will overwrite the other Krock: or corrupt the map Krock: Lapis_Wolf: blocks are 16³ Telesight: Lapis, In reality I prefer lightyears ... Lapis_Wolf: also,dies anybody know the name of the texture pack that is commonly used in peoples' survival series on YouTube with the hexa or pentagonal textures? Lapis_Wolf: @Krock 16? Andrey01: Krock: can I roll back anyhow the previous map state? Noclip: So you just tried all maps after each other, knowing that they would get destroyed as soon as you enter them? Noclip: I backuped my important worlds before updating to 5.2.0. Maybe you should do that to next time. If you compress your world files with 7zip they get much much smaller so you won't need a lot of storage space for those backups. Krock: mapblocks (blocks) are 16x16x16 nodes, thus 4000 blocks equal 64km, which is across the entire map Krock: ^ Lapis_Wolf Krock: Andrey01: backups, if you have any Andrey01: oh, no Krock: Andrey01: I've also had this happen, but that's now four years ago.. it really wonders me why some people still get corrupt maps Krock: are you using sqlite3 as backend, or lebeldb, postgresql? Lapis_Wolf: dang! 64km!.. Krock: *leveldb Andrey01: Krock: sqlite3 Andrey01: wait, as far as I recall, last time, when it was not corrupted yet, I couldn`t run on the same map simultaneously on two identical instances as it was singleplayer mode Andrey01: and other strange thing: I made even few backups of that map, but they... also appeared corrupt Noclip_: Krock, Lapis_Wolf: But the "viewing_range" setting (which Telesight was talking about) is measured in nodes so with 1 node being 1 meter long 4000 nodes equal 4km. Lapis_Wolf's calculation was correct he just used the wrong word. Noclip_: Telesight: "You are very close ..." + "In reality I prefer lightyears ..."---> Are you eventually an astronomer? Telesight: Noclip Not many found that ;-) Telesight: Ok I think I solved the CPU usage ... Noclip_: How? Reducing your viewing range? Telesight: I checked a lot of settings, but it seems the Max FPS that raises the CPU usage; 60 fps means around 100% CPU, 25 fps < 40% CPU usage adfeno: Krock: Thank you very much for the profiler hint Telesight: Ok thank you all for your mental support, I think I can make some players happy ... DS-minetest: shouldn't https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/bd64188ee566bc31c1cd50d63f0da3328d42ab51/mods/default/item_entity.lua#L73 be `setmetatable(item, {__index = builtin_item})`? sfan5: there's an issue about it but nobody really knows sfan5: is __index not required to be a function? DS-minetest: it can be a function or something that you can index, see http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.8 adfeno: Is there a way to make the player entity emit light so as to mimic someone carrying a torch which lights their way? DS-minetest: (section "index") DS-minetest: adfeno: only nodes can emit light DS-minetest: with "emit" i mean here that other things are lit up by the light argyle: forum down? sfan5: perhaps sfan5: or rather "probably" argyle: I can't remember the setting that makes it so that you aren't half-way embedded in the floor DS-minetest: argyle: update your installed mods argyle: ok thanks adfeno: DS-minetest: I'm searching a way to improve a mod which aims to modify the default torch so that it becomes a tool and emits light at the same place as player. adfeno: It has a bug that if the player climbs a ladder, the torch is disabled and the player has to lit it again. DS-minetest: adfeno: such mods already exist (eg. technic's flashlight). afaik these mods replace air at the player's pos with an ivisible light source DS-minetest: try searching air nearby freelikegnu: I want a mob to add a plant to a node but minetest.find_node_near() and minetest.set_node() near dont seem to like working with air sfan5: what do you mean? freelikegnu: I have the pos of a node I want to decorate at "value" https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/twkPWPGZCS/ freelikegnu: I'm probably doing this wrong freelikegnu: thanks sfan5 :D sfan5: !api MinetestBot: Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt sfan5: first, you should check if find_node_near actually returned anything sfan5: since it can return nil sfan5: it's also not called "default:air" but "air" sfan5: and a radius of 1 if too small sfan5: is* freelikegnu: I tried air but I will put it back.... so radius 2 is one node away from the value? sfan5: I'm not totally sure about that, I'd start with 2 and see if that's too far freelikegnu: what does search center do? sfan5: doesn't the documentation explain? freelikegnu: line 4637 "search_center` is an optional boolean (default: `false`)" freelikegnu: thats it sfan5: and line 4638? freelikegnu: oh duh... very sorry freelikegnu: so from the output of minetest.find_node_near(value, 2, "air") I can use: if value ~= nil then freelikegnu: minetest.set_node? sfan5: yes? freelikegnu: hmm seems I'm still comming up with "AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: "" is not a registered node!" sfan5: how does your call to set_node look? freelikegnu: if value ~= nil then freelikegnu: minetest.set_node(value, {name = replace_with}) freelikegnu: end sfan5: and replace_with is? freelikegnu: default:mossycobble freelikegnu: oop I mean goblins:mushroom_goblin freelikegnu: its basically the mushroom node freelikegnu: the awful mess I made: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/m2QRNHzSt9/ sfan5: are you absolutely sure replace_with is set to the value you want it to be set to? sfan5: if in doubt, print() it too freelikegnu: well the code was working fine before I added the decorate option... also I'm assuming air must be in quotes? sfan5: "air" not air yes sfan5: when you leave the quotes off it turns into nil because air is just an undefined variable sfan5: I think Minetest even warns you with its output freelikegnu: ok I got it working now... there was something else messed up in my file, many thanks for the help sfan5! freelikegnu: https://i.imgur.com/QF1ClOC.png freelikegnu: dang snow biomes... goblins were not happy :D * Noclip: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/MDvQIRXhlTkxrxipAqJMEFuq > freelikegnu: not sure whether its better to use firelike or torchlike for getting mushrooms on walls and ceiling... orbea: is the port closed? AidanLCB_: wdym AidanLCB_: i dont think so AidanLCB_: and i didn't change any settings from yesterday AidanLCB_: im checking on canyouseeme.org AidanLCB_: hmm ig it is closed AidanLCB_: idk why tho orbea: something in the ssh config i'd guess AidanLCB_: no the port is closed AidanLCB_: idk why tho AidanLCB_: just changed it from TCP/UDP to just TCP still doesn't work tho Noclip: Why is the Minetest version in the google play store over one year old? rubenwardy: since google play updated their policies, we've been unable to build for it rubenwardy: however, we'll be releasing 5.3 in one or two months with support for Android again Noclip: So 5.3 will be released in the play store? Noclip: Do you have controll over the F-Droid version or does F-Droid Limited handle that on their own? freelikegnu: I've been playing with git master of MT and it feels far more like a game than 4x freelikegnu: 4.xx I mean tf2ftw: hi tf2ftw: What's the fastest way to make a bridge? tf2ftw: any tips? swift110: hey all oil_boi_: rubenwardy: I saw my Github Issue was closed so I thought I'd clarify it in a video https://youtu.be/rXiIHmhjK7M nephele_: Noclip, F-droid updates their stuff themselves nephele_: Just in generall, they want users to know atleast that they build it nephele_: (so, probably find a maintainer and ask real nice... or build it yourself if you can :P) * Noclip: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/IRfgYGWHsTePTmtNdMXkrDvC > Noclip: Can I store my Minetest files on the SD card on Android? Noclip: Test Ingar: tikkel Andrey01: Why is there no minetest_game package on ContentDB now? I recall it used to be in the past texmex: !tell oil_boi_ check out this animated furnace texture as a drop-in replacement for the static one. https://github.com/minetest-texture-packs/Pixel-Perfection/blob/master/crafting/crafting_furnace_front_active.png MinetestBot: texmex: I'll pass that on when oil_boi_ is around rubenwardy: Andrey01: there is https://content.minetest.net/packages/Minetest/minetest_game/ rubenwardy: it's just hidden Noclip: I installed Minetest on Android and it created the `Minetest` folder in the internal storage. However as I don't have a lot of space left there I would like to move it to the external storage (sd card). How can I do that with having Minetest recognizing and accepting it? sfan5: don't think that's possible currently Andrey01: rubenwardy: it`s strange it`s hidden, but why? rubenwardy: because it causes problems when installing it locally rubenwardy: if MTG is installed from the pkgmgr, you'll get errors when trying to update Andrey01: And if download it from github? Will it cause the problems? rubenwardy: no Astrobe: I see floatlands were removed in MTG. Yet mgv7 can generate terrain above the clouds (alt ~120), Astrobe: I wonder what happnes if one decreases the upper limit for biomes to that altitude Astrobe: Does it "cut" abruptly the biome generation ? Astrobe: Or is it a "soft limit" ? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Override builtin item entity the portable way 13bd64188 https://git.io/Jfeay (152020-04-14T11:31:25Z) Astrobe: Deep underground glass dungeons are pretty nice. Astrobe: I would try obsidian glass dungeon, but obsidian glass too transparent for that, I think. Especially with the frame optionnal option. Astrobe: BTW, there's a default_obsidian_texture used by the obsidian glass node, but I can't figure out what it is used for. Astrobe: Wuzzy, the "sci fi nodes mode" defines alien-looking plants that might be interesting for Hades. Wuzzy: ouch Wuzzy: lots of -NC BS in there 🙁 Astrobe: Didn't pay attention to that aspect... Astrobe: Ethereal could be another option then. Astrobe: apparently the obsidian_detal texture has something to do with frame_optional. Astrobe: Mixing normal glass an obsidian glass (in node_dungeon_alt) gives... interesting results. Markow: Good afternoon. texmex: Wuzzy: My experience is that the right arguments will go a long way in convincing people to ditch the NC part. tf2ftw: what hud is everyone using? I'm looking for something that looks like MC Wuzzy: I have looked into this and so far its only 2 sounds Wuzzy: the README is wrong about licensing for most sounds. most sounds actually have free license although the README says otherwise Wuzzy: D00Med did not create those sounds, its all grabbed from freesound.org Ingar: -NC _is_ bullshit Ingar: legally Astrobe: Answering my own question: at biome def y_max, what happens depends on the vertical_blend parameter. Astrobe: tf2ftw: most of the times the HUD is defined by the game you're playing. I don't remember having seen a mod that only redefines the HUD. Zughy: is contentDB login down? tf2ftw: Astrobe, im using mintest_game. I haven't leveled into "games" yet. Just looking for a relaxing crafting experience rubenwardy: Zughy: it's online for me rubenwardy: I get email notifications when contentDB goes down rubenwardy: except for SSL errors, because that is premium Zughy: rubenwardy, "Oops! Something went wrong" rubenwardy: what page? rubenwardy: wait nevermind rubenwardy: I'm getting the error emails rubenwardy: how did you create your account? Zughy: via the signature code rubenwardy: did you set a password? Zughy: AFAIK yep Zughy: *remember Zughy: Do you want me to try again? rubenwardy: you don't have a set password rubenwardy: ContentDB shouldn't crash though rubenwardy: If you PM an email, I can set your email and then you can request a password reset rubenwardy: I need to add the ability for admins to set passwords Melah: Hi all. To install worldEdit mod on Ubuntu where is the mods folder should be? home/snap/minetest? sfan5: it's usually at /home/yourname/.minetest sfan5: but if you installed it from snap or flatpack then I have no idea Melah: hm... sfan5: you can also use the in-game content store to install mods sfan5: no need to find some folders manually in that case Melah: hang on sec I've insalled from term and have a .minetest folder now but there is no mods inside. Should I create it or it supposed to be there? Melah: Oh ok now I see it Melah: Thank you =) Astrobe: Strange. It looks like the magen will ignore unknown nodes at the time of definition, however the dungeon nodes can be definined later (e.g. stairs). Can someone confirm? Astrobe: A glass dungeon spawned next to a cave with a laval fall. Fantastic MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Make default:snow collisionbox half of nodebox height (#2647) 1352c6921 https://git.io/Jfe9y (152020-04-14T17:09:24Z) MinetestBot: oil_boi_: Apr-14 09:53 UTC check out this animated furnace texture as a drop-in replacement for the static one. https://github.com/minetest-texture-packs/Pixel-Perfection/blob/master/crafting/crafting_furnace_front_active.png oil_boi_: Thanks texmex MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Refactor texture overrides and add new features (#9600) 135cf6318 https://git.io/JfedT (152020-04-14T18:41:29Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: scriptapi: Some small optimizations to value pushing (#9669) 132d5bd3b https://git.io/JfedO (152020-04-14T18:44:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: PostgreSQL: Fix listAllLoadableBlocks returning the same block 137c43cf4 https://git.io/Jfed3 (152020-04-14T18:42:40Z) lmat: Is there any limit to how low the natural mines go? I've been exploring a mine under my island for a LONG time... Krock: they'll surely stop near -30918 or so Krock: or was it -30980? whatever, I think you get the idea. It's perlin noise, so probably it will stop somewhere, but nobody knows lmat: Krock: ^_^ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add all src folders to doxygen (#9603) 1362c62f3 https://git.io/Jfebk (152020-04-14T19:22:49Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update wireshark dissector (#9621) 13032d90b https://git.io/JfebL (152020-04-14T19:22:19Z) lmat: What the crap? Is it possible for the mapgen to create man-made-looking dungeons with chests in them!? lmat: I'm POSITIVE nobody in my world created this! There are three MESE crystals! lmat: ..yoink... calcul0n: mapgen creates dungeons with chests and randomloots, not sure i'd call that man-made looking though :) sfan5: you should have found more than one by now if you've been exploring all that time Astrobe: The best part is their glitches, actually. Like when one spawns too close to the surface and you end up with a large swimming pool. oil_boi_: I love that glitch though, free pool Astrobe: I am making fun of them, but I extended the old Ruins mod from Blockmen. Sometimes the glitches of random generation create wonderful buildings - sometimes even just on top of a dungeon room - and sometimes it's just a complete clusterfack. lmat: sfan5: That's the only one! sfan5: I can guarantee you there is more than one lmat: sfan5: Well of course, I guess there are infinite ^_^ lmat: Astrobe: this one was pretty cool! the opening was under water (not sure how I found it anyway), then I went into it and there were streams that ended in little dungeons. Very cool! Astrobe: Just today I was experimenting with using galss for the walls of the dungeons and I eventually found one next to fall of lava. There was a hole in the wall, so it ended up as a lava flooding in a house of glass. Astrobe: Being a moron, my first thought was "but the lava should melt the glass"... lmat: Can I play minetest on an iPad? sfan5: there are no official ports oil_boi_: What is the default move speed set to? oil_boi_: I know the physics override equals 1 but what does 1 mean? 1 meter per second? Astrobe: It's a multiplier Astrobe: of the base speed Astrobe: (telling from memory) Noclip: You could run a very long way, stop the time and then calculate the default move speed. Noclip: If your runway is long enough that should be very accurate. oil_boi_: What is the base speed? oil_boi_: Also I'm not trying to modify it OTF I'm trying to just adjust it to a real life speed tbh Astrobe: it dhoulb mevement_speed_walk in minetst.conf which is 4 (nodes/sec) Astrobe: if the comments show the default value and not reandom values Astrobe: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example Astrobe: my fingers say sorry. Noclip: oil_boi_: Don't forget that the 2 meter guy Sam is over average high and has over average high legs. I assume people with over average high legs move a bit faster on average than the average speed of all people. 😂 Noclip: 4 m/s = 14,4 km/h Noclip: That's a bit fast for normal walking. Wikipedia says 4,5 to 5,5 km/h is the average. Astrobe: 14.4 is indeed a bit fast, especially when carrying half a dozen of furnaces in your bag ;-) Noclip: For whatever reason you should carry so many furnaces in Minetest 😂 Verticen: I don't see making the walking speed a little faster would hurt. Would make it quicker to traverse the world. Just make sure you adjust the monster movement speed to account for it. oil_boi_: thank you Noclip and Astrobe oil_boi_: sfan5: would it be possible to modify the player FOV in clientside api? Noclip: You're welcome 😄 swift110: hey all Noclip: Hi AidanLCB_: if I were to setup a server on digital ocean would I use the 'droplets' thing oil_boi_: What is the default player gravity? oil_boi_: Like in m/s AidanLCB_: i think 0 AidanLCB_: not sure tho AidanLCB_: how can I make players join game at specific coords instead of where they left AidanLCB_: as well as having their inventory cleared when they join nephele_: AidanLCB_, * `minetest.register_on_joinplayer(function(ObjectRef))` nephele_: in that function teleport them, clear their inventory, whatever :) AidanLCB_: do i have to then put that in a mod AidanLCB_: or what AidanLCB_: im new to minetest servers if you couldn't tell nephele_: No, i did not know your level of experience, Yes you would have to put that in a mod and likely learna bit of lua to acomplish that nephele_: basically register_on_joinplayer gives you a callback that the engine calls every time a player joins, the function(Objectref) means you get an objec reference, in this case the player, on which you can do stuff with, like clear their inventory and teleport them AidanLCB_: and my discord froze when i tried to upload picture nephele: discord? this is irc cheapie: ...so I guess my Minetest car wash thing now has its own sort of programming language :/ cheapie: For a while now it's had a feature where you can have it print out any of the programs you have set up on it on an attached printer, but now I gave it the ability to import those back into the controller. cheapie: (the goal being to make it easier to copy them between locations in the same chain) cheapie: But since the printouts are in a human-readable format, I guess this means that you can also just type up a program in a text editor, as long as you stick to exactly the right format, and then paste that into the import window and have it "compile" into a wash program, instead of using the graphical editor like normal. Krock: programmable car wash program in Minetest? Am I reading this right? * cheapie: nods, Luacontroller-based cheapie: This is the program in the LuaC: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/r8ZmzVQBfC/ cheapie: Uses two digistuff touchscreens ("washsel" for the customer to select wash programs and "controlpanel" for creating new ones), a digistuff I/O expander to control each pipeworks water valve (channels "valve1" through "valve9"), a digistuff player detector on the channel "detector" to detect someone in the wash, and rgblightstone on channels "golight" "stoplight" and "backuplight" with hopefully obvious meanings. cheapie: The server it was developed on does use a higher-than-normal mesecon.luacontroller_maxevents setting of 100000, it may or may not work at the default of 10000 but has not been tested like that. vanek: good morning * blaise: starts a pot of coffee * vanek: is more of a tea guy * blaise: hands vanek a tea bag vanek: thanks :) vanek: happy easter everybody blaise: wasn't yesterday easter? * blaise: puts a kettle on the stove for vanek vanek: i think it is a 3 day thing, friday, sunday and monday blaise: I feel like ... it can't end fast enough blaise: I got trampled at an easter egg hunt when I was very young.. blaise: I still get anxiety with easter stuff blaise: I got arrested for assault when I was a teenager becuase an easter bunny came at me in a mall blaise: the eggs, the colors... blaise: I just can't take it vanek: glad to see trolls didn't disappear from the internet :) blaise: it's real though blaise: =( nephele: Can i tell minetest to listen on :: AND 0.0.0.0? the ipv6_server option just seems to be exclusive? nephele: Ah, seems the log is not logging correctly, it's listening on ipv too Phase: Can anyone help me please? Phase: Please for the love of God I've spent hours, compiling from source, using git, not using git, using the apt-get version, figuring out versions are not compatible with other version I am about at my wits end... Phase: I have compiled minetest and I am telling it to '--config' then use said configuration file which is meant to use port 8888 as stated in the ".conf" file but NO it just seems to say lol wut? You want me to read a conf file? Nah bro I'm good, tried to delete the world folder it just seems to keep on re-creating it, Why won't this blasted thing READ THE CONF FILE that I am telling the program to process? Phase: ./minetestserver --config /home/sec/minetest.conf (just loads up random default world and ignores my conf) nephele: Phase: hmm, permissions all set correctly? Phase: I followed the guide they mentioned none of this nephele: I have such a setup on my FreeBSD server with 5.1.1, so it atleast works for me :g nephele: i dunno what guides you followed, but what user are you running the server as? nephele: and can that user read the file? Phase: It is compiled by said user nephele: that Phase: So it surely has access nephele: 's irrelevant nephele: i am asking which user runs the software Phase: 'sec' nephele: and if that user can access the config Phase: the same user running the software is the same who compiled it nephele: yes, but again, who compiled it is irrelevant :) nephele: what matters is if the running user can read the config file Phase: well if root compiled it, then sec would not be able to access it Phase: well said user edits said file with nano nephele: ??? nephele: i am talking about unix users Krock: specify a world using --word nephele: as what user are you running the server? Krock: * --world Phase: Krock, I prefer the configuration file as, I can set a password and various other options Phase: Either it's stupid as all heck or I am Phase: nephele, What do you mean what user is running the server? I told you nephele: No, you did not Krock: what should not happen is that it enters this function: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L681 Phase: There is a user called 'sec' that has compiled, configured, and ran the program nephele: Okay, now, who owns the config file? Krock: is the setting "map-dir" an absolute path? Phase: It is commented I think Phase: Last time it was ignoring that too Krock: it shouldn't. Phase: Sec nephele Phase: sec@localhost:~/minetest$ ls -l minetest.conf Phase: -rw-r--r-- 1 sec sec 97947 Apr 13 08:18 minetest.conf Phase: sec@localhost:~/minetest$ Phase: /home/sec/minetest Phase: # map-dir = Phase: Krock Phase: It is commented because last time it would not read this file... Phase: It just does the whole Phase: sec@localhost:~/minetest/bin$ ./minetestserver --config /home/sec/minetest/minet est.conf Phase: 2020-04-13 08:44:24: [Main]: Automatically selecting world at [/home/sec/minetes t/bin/../worlds/world] Phase: 'Automatically' selecting world? Is that because one is not defined? Krock: exactly Phase: So if I set a pathway it'll just repeat sec Krock: consider checking the file read permissions (rather unlikely, though) Phase: map-dir = /home/sec/minetest/new-worlds Phase: Compiled from source btw Phase: Oh wow Phase: 2020-04-13 08:47:27: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sec/minetest/new-worlds] Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Phase: So now it will have the correct path Phase: However Phase: It is still not reading the correct port Phase: Either I have not uncommented something and it has gone to a default value or??? Phase: Er wtf Phase: Sec Phase: Yep still wont change the port Phase: remote_port = 8888 Phase: And yet Phase: 2020-04-13 08:49:23: ACTION[Main]: World at [/home/sec/minetest/new-worlds] Phase: 2020-04-13 08:49:23: ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000. Phase: I said 8888 not 30000 Phase: Perhaps address needs a value Phase: Nope no change Krock: remote_port is for the client to connect to a server Krock: specify "port" Phase: It says port to connect to MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add scroll_container formspec element (redo) (#9101) 130ac999d https://git.io/JvjPD (152020-04-13T08:50:07Z) Phase: So that means the post you want to host the sever on, no? Phase: Port not post * Phase: I'm under ##Network Phase: Oh Phase: Network port to listen * Phase: face palms wtf * Phase: trys this Phase: Oh finally!!! Phase: So I confused remote_port with simply 'port' MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Add default stack size setting (#8873) 1327d611f https://git.io/JvjPS (152020-04-13T08:53:10Z) Phase: Ah so remote_port most of been for the client to connect to a server lol aha nephele: Krock, oh Phase: Thanks heaps Phase: Now one last thing, if I want to add mods, in windows it was pretty much just copy paste, what directory do I put them in here? I wonder if there is a mods directory like the win builds Phase: I feel like such a cabbage, thanks guys Krock: Phase: worth it reading the documentation Phase: Aha, I found a 'mods' directory, dun dun dun nephele: i think ~/.minetest/mods/ Phase: Er that can't be right though? Phase: sec@localhost:~/minetest$ pwd Phase: It has 'mods' as a folder inside /home/sec/minetest Phase: I compiled from source? Phase: Now I just need to figure out how to generate new worlds until I am happy with the one I get lol nephele: depends whether you have the run_in_place option on or off Phase: Ah Phase: I had it enabled I think Phase: During the compile process nephele: yeah then that dir you showed is probably correct:) Phase: Awesome Phase: So if I want to say create a new world right Phase: I just delete the current one right? Phase: It'll keep generating one, based on my .conf file settings I assume nephele: yeah, that would work fine Phase: Awesome thanks a million guys! nephele: just be sure to not set a default seed, otherwise you get the same world each time Phase: Is that in the .conf? Phase: fixed_map_seed ? nephele: if you dont remember setting it you dont have it :P Phase: Says leave empty for random Phase: But it is uncommented nephele: yeah, then leave it Phase: Alright, it must assume ignored = 0 Phase: Awesome Phase: Thanks heaps Phase: All the best, now I'll google how the linux mods work lol nephele: just put them in the correct dir and enable them in the world i think Phase: I tried to run the MineTest 5.2.0 and connect earlier but it was like nah bruh, this linux version is 0.4.17 so no way so I ended up just down-grading the windows client Phase: Enable them in the world? I couldn't find a config file for the world though Phase: I'll just google it nephele: Linux is hugely fractured, some server distros are hugely outdated :P nephele: I think you need to creat the file, not sure though, google probably knows indeed Phase: Awesome, thanks! ( I just figured either windows releases updates too often, or linux is too far behind, so when it said compile from source I was like oh okay sure!) Wonder if this is a dev build, lol, shit I wonder if this will even work lmao Phase: Your clients version is not supported Phase: Erm... Phase: Must be a 5.0 Phase: I'll check what version this is nephele: The problem is mostly just, that well... it's fairly impossible to compile software for linux distros nephele: because every distro does shit just a little bit different nephele: but for windows... there is windows nephele: so compiling for windows is easier, it's just one target Phase: Minetest 5.3.0-dev-6cf15cf (Linux) Krock: 5.x is compatible with 5.x, and 0.4.x is compatible with the more recent 0.4.x versions Phase: I'll try see if my new windows client works with that 5.30-dev Krock: consider disabling strict_protocol_checking (or similar) in case you added this setting Phase: If you proceed a new account will be created Please retype your password and click Register and join Phase: Passwords do not match hrm Phase: Must be something in the .conf * Phase: goes back to look Krock: "retype" Krock: implies that you already typed in the password previously Krock: previously is in this case the main menu Phase: Ah right Phase: I'm tired soz lol Phase: Awh this is sweet! Phase: Thanks a million Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Phase: So when I place a block it appears, fades away, then appears again Phase: Is this due to the fact of 'slow' vps ? Phase: Linode must of setup a bad vps in Australia that or my net just sucks connecting to them despite the lowest ping lol Phase: That or my net just sucks Phase: I remember having this once before, changed from Australia to UK and it fixed it hrm MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Make straw stairs usable as fuel (#2627) 13ea4ce80 https://git.io/JvjXr (152020-04-13T09:34:10Z) kuba_orlik: I've downloaded nssm to the mods directory and enabled it in world.mt, but it didn't work... How to troubleshoot it? Krock: open debug.txt and investigate the bottom lines Krock: also hello aidalgol: I gather from reading the discussion on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1737 that is now a client-side modding API? sfan5: yes sfan5: it's very much work-in-progress though sfan5: docs: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/client_lua_api.txt aidalgol: Thanks, I was trying to find the documentation on the website, and turning up nothing. kuba_orlik: hi there! On a headless server, how do I configure a mod? I see some settings for nssm https://github.com/minetest-mobs-mods/nssm/blob/master/settingtypes.txt kuba_orlik: should it be in world.mt? Or in minetest.conf? Krock: world.mt kuba_orlik: ok, thanks! Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/world_format.txt#L121 Krock: > load_mod_ = true Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! DS-minetest: ↑ that's not configuring the mod, but enabling it. the link to the settingtypes file suggest that changing the mod's settings was wanted to do DS-minetest: do we have per-world minetest.conf files? Krock: ^ see #9647 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9647 -- Add WorldSettings object & env var support by nerzhul kuba_orlik: I've added nssm.multimobs = 200 but it didn't seem to have changed anything Krock: the setting name is "multimobs" Krock: https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm/blob/master/settingtypes.txt#L11 kuba_orlik: so it's just multimobs = 200 ? Krock: yes kuba_orlik: oooh ok kuba_orlik: how can I confirm the setting took place? kuba_orlik: took effect * sfan5: DS-minetest: no there's no per-world minetest.conf yet sfan5: (and the PR Krock linked is also for world.mt) kuba_orlik: so mod settings should go to minetest.conf? or world.mt? sfan5: the former kuba_orlik: oh, ok kuba_orlik: I'm also struggling with configuring initial items for users on a headless server kuba_orlik: how do I set it up? sfan5: do you plan to use give_initial_stuff? lmat: Turns out there was jungle right by initial island (-613, 8, 236). The first jungle *I* saw was at (-10013, 2, 59). sigh kuba_orlik: sfan5: yes Krock: oh right, wrong configuration file. kuba_orlik: I've added kuba_orlik: give_initial_stuff = true initial_stuff = default:pick_steel,default:axe_steel,default:shovel_steel,default:torch 10,default:cobble 10 kuba_orlik: to main minetest.conf, but it didn't work sfan5: how did you test that? kuba_orlik: I killed myself Krock: it's for new players, not for suicidal people Krock: delete your account or create a new one kuba_orlik: oh ok XD lmat: How do I plant? I didn't see anything in the wiki. I have some cotton seeds. I aim at a dry dirt patch next to water and right click. I see the seeds on the soil for maybe 100 ms, then they're gone and I still have my original count of seeds. sfan5: did you use the hoe on the dirt? lmat: The patch is "default:dry_dirt". (It was "default:dry_dirt_with_grass", but the wiki didn't mention that as a possibility for cotton seeds.) lmat: NO! That should be on https://wiki.minetest.net/Category:Plants lmat: or https://wiki.minetest.net/planting or something ^_^ Thanks for the tip! sfan5: well it's explained here https://wiki.minetest.net/Soil sfan5: farmable plants (not flowers) can generally only be placed on soil lmat: awesome, thanks! I only have experience with saplings which don't appear to require hoeing. Xorkle: hi Xorkle: calcul0n: r u around? calcul0n: yes? Xorkle: calcul0n: sorry, tabfail, I meant Calinou Xorkle: my bad calcul0n: ho, np :) Krock: o/ calcul0n calcul0n: hi Calinou: Xorkle: hi, yes lmat: https://wiki.minetest.net/Cotton_Plant says about the probability of a cotton plant dropping cotton seed: "The probabilities are the exactly same as for Strings. lmat: " What does that mean? Calinou: lmat: I think it meant "cotton" instead of "string" Calinou: the item may have been renamed, and that part of the article wasn't updated Calinou: ("string" is the Minecraft equivalent, more or less) Calinou: I fixed it lmat: Calinou: rock on! String is simply made from cotton, so I supposed there was a correlation. Krock: crafting guide mods are your friend freelikegnu: Calinou will there be a Carbone-NG for v5? Calinou: no, I have no plans to update it, sorry freelikegnu: it was my favorite game, I will miss it Krock: Wuzzy: https://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/ still exists AidanLCB_: is there a way to download a mod from github on a server over ssh? AidanLCB_: ping me in response orbea: AidanLCB_: git clone AidanLCB_: so can i just do that in the mods folder? AidanLCB_: will it download zip or unziped orbea: yes: git clone orbea: it will clone the repo, there will be no zip AidanLCB_: ok good AidanLCB_: thx orbea: np, its worth reading up git documentation, its a bit confusing at first, but its a very useful thing to know AidanLCB_: yeah this will make it so much easier AidanLCB_: im hosting a server on my pi and I had to use a desktop to install mds AidanLCB_: mods* orbea: sfan5: oops, didn't notice this... https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2127 orbea: from 2018 and has one approval already, why does it take so long? sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sfan5: your pr does not have that prefixed_name thing sfan5: the other pr does not update the documentaiton sfan5: documentation* rubenwardy: we should seriously question whether adding more APIs to default is a good thing. Too many mods depend on it orbea: its already exposed, its just broken rubenwardy: ah right orbea: i dont think its good that other mods be forced to reinvent the wheel too when it comes to chests sfan5: well then it could be removed at any time orbea: sfan5: I did the prefixed name thing a little differently https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/45a62c7b21bd369c51aaf854acf9358fab068872/mods/default/chests.lua#L273 orbea: its only needed for that backwards compat as far as I seen sfan5: the point of it is that default.chest.register(":modname:itemname", ...) works correctly orbea: yea, both versions pass: modname:chest orbea: where both are arbitrary sfan5: no not that sfan5: if name == ":modname:itemname", your code would call minetest.swap_node(pos, { name = ":modname:itemname_open" }), but that's not correct Viper: hi! is it possible to have server that suport 4.17 and 5.x clients? sfan5: it's not orbea: sfan5: okay, I see what you mean, but I don't understand, why would people use ":default:chest" instead of "default:chest", I think I am lacking context. sfan5: that syntax is used to register a node "foo:chest" while you are in the mod "bar" sfan5: doing so without the extra : raises an error orbea: ah Viper: what is with that multicraft server? sfan5: presumably they use a modified codebase to achieve compatibility Krock: their code must be a pure mess to support both versions Krock: and slow due to additional networking overhead Viper: ok Viper: thanks Viper: they do have most players MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove sound menu and show proper msgs if sound is off (#9069) 137e21b3c https://git.io/Jfeer (152020-04-13T18:26:54Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04bell07 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Make default.chest.register_chest() usable for other mods (#2127) 13fb18a5b https://git.io/Jfeeo (152020-04-13T18:26:44Z) orbea: sfan5: can you close this now too? :) https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1936 orbea: thanks cheapie: Hmm... you know, writing >100-line programs in a Luacontroller is one thing, but then there's writing an 872-line program in one that then does stuff based on *another* program written in some proprietary scripting language made for it, and writing a 106-line program in that... cheapie: But that's right, I'm no longer just writing Luacontroller programs, but rather programs that run inside Luacontroller programs too :P AidanLCB_: am i stupid and do i have to edit minetest.conf to let external players join or what AidanLCB_: bc i did all the port forwarding and all that and i can't join with public ip address to my server AidanLCB_: i had a working server before on a different now deleted world AidanLCB_: or are there mods that stop external players from joining? AidanLCB_: i rlly don't know why i cant join NathanS21: Double check that it's the same port, and that the server is actually running. AidanLCB_: Im using the default port and have another account on it at the same time AidanLCB_: and ik its not my subdomain bc I tried using just my public IP adress and it still didn't work NathanS21: Does the debug report anything when you try and connect? NathanS21: If there is a mod preventing you from joining it should log that it did something. AidanLCB_: no iv been watching the terminal its running in over ssh and no errors orbea: can you ssh into the system even? AidanLCB_: I just time out when joining which usually happens when the server is down but it isn't AidanLCB_: yeah im using my pi AidanLCB_: over ssh AidanLCB_: I can try using ssh with public ip NathanS21: You sure the PI is running a compatible version of Minetest with your client version? orbea: so ssh from your current system works, but minetest doesn;t? AidanLCB_: they both work on my network orbea: have you tried from a public server? Maybe ssh is configured to not allow it AidanLCB_: im going to redo the port forwarding AidanLCB_: bc just yesterday it was working AidanLCB_: on a different world AidanLCB_: and i did redo the port forwarding AidanLCB_: still doesn't work ik everything there is correct but i can't remotly ssh into my pi AidanLCB_: ssh: connect to host playcubetest.minetest.land port 22: Connection refused lmat: I did /area_pos1 and /area_pos2 then /set_owner (or /protect I forgot which), but the area is not protected. lmat: /list_areas shows the area and good coordinates, but other players are able to smash stuff in itt. lmat: Is there a difference between /set_owner and /protect in this regard? lmat: (Of course, assuming the command succeeds...) lmat: oh, maybe I have the area definition off... :/= lmat: :-/ lmat: Yeah, missed a negative sign. grey__: Hey grey__: question grey__: Does minetest on android need to be the same version as your server for it to work on LAN? grey__: I'm trying to get my phone connected to my linux server on my LAN. grey__: I just get connection timed out. misspapaya: spiders keep crashing my server :'( tf2ftw: anyone just join the game as player "1234" cheapie: So I'm making a Luacontroller-based car wash in MT... I'm up to 649 lines so far and it doesn't actually wash anything yet. cheapie: That said, it's getting closer - with those 649 lines, the UI for programming in the various wash cycles is more or less done. cheapie: Looks kinda like this so far: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20200411_231508.png nephele: grey__, no, not neccesarily, and connection timed out would not be the error you get for an incompatible version :) nephele: cheapie, heh, not gonna lie, 649 lines seems a bit much ;) cheapie: nephele: The gas pump one has 940. cheapie: Granted, about 200 of each is TSLib. nephele: oof. nephele: Now i'm kinda curious what you do in all that code :P cheapie: For which one? :P nephele: my gamemode has 2850 lines according to wc -l (i think that counted the init.lua severall times, but whatever) :D cheapie: The gas pump one controls as many pumps as you want with as many products/grades as you want (limited only by luacontroller_maxevents), keeps track of prepayments and "card" payments, prints receipts, stores and can reprint past receipts, displays current prices on attached signage, automatically updates prices over the internet... grey__: nephele OH Well grey__: nephele If I host the game on my phone it works. nephele: Hmm, that might be a firewall problem then? grey__: nephele When is the phone version going to be updated? It looks like it's out of date by like 3 months? I can join games hosted on my phone from my PC but I can't join games hosted on my PC from my phone. grey__: I have no firewall. nephele: Sorry, i do not know when it will be updated :) grey__: Idk if that could be it? grey__: I want to host the games on my PC. grey__: What should I do? Noclip: grey__: What OS are you using on your PC? grey__: Linux Noclip: Are you really sure, that you don't have a firewall? grey__: I've never installed one. Noclip: What happens if you type `ufw` into a terminal? grey__: grey@golem:~/bin/minetest-master/bin$ ufwERROR: not enough args Noclip: Looks like ufw ist installed, otherwise it should say something like unknown command. Noclip: Then type: `sudo ufw status verbose` grey__: Oh Noclip: (Or just `ufw status verbose` as root ...) grey__: Status: activeLogging: on (low)Default: deny (incoming), allow (outgoing), disabled (routed)New profiles: skip grey__: Hm nephele: grey__, linux ships with a standard firewall called "iptables" nephele: there is no need to seperately install one nephele: whether it is configured is another question though nephele: >Default: deny (incoming) nephele: You have to make it accept, udp, on port 30000 nephele: noclip seems to know the ufw command anyway :P, maybe he can help out Noclip: `sudo ufw allow 30000` grey__: I see. Hunh. I didn't know. Noclip: `sudo ufw reload` Noclip: Now it should work. Noclip: Which Linux Distro are you using? Ubuntu and Linux Mint should have their firewalls (ufw) deactivated by default. grey__: OH grey__: Yeah that worked. grey__: I'm using a ubuntu derivative grey__: That does it! Thank you! Noclip: You're welcome Noclip: Maybe someone should place some big Firewall-warnings inside of every (official) Minetest-Server related tutorial and documentation. 90% of all issues with setting up a minetest server seem to be related to firewalls. grey__: Thank you so much! Noclip: Can the Minetest Server manipulate the seed that I see with F5? nephele: You can set an initial seed if you want nephele: I think it stores it per world, you can maaayb change it after generating part of the world? but then you get nice cliffs :D Noclip: I think you missunderstood me: Noclip: Let's assume I would play on a random public server that I don't own. Let's also assume that we know that the server uses one of the builtin mapgens (v7 for example) and doesn't use any mods with a high impact on the mapgen. Noclip: Would it then be possible that the _seed_ which I see in the F5-Infos is not the seed that is actually used for the generation of new chunks? Noclip: In short: Can the server lie about the seed? nephele: That is a network question to which i don't know the answer, but i assume the answer is Yes, if your axiom (that it uses v7) is wrong Noclip: That's why I said _"Let's also assume that we know ..."_. nephele: it could potentially overwrite every generated chunk in luaspace so in that way it could "lie" :) nephele: If there is an easier way, probably nephele: In any case you would need the same code for all biomes and decos etc. to get the same terrain with the same seed Noclip: Do you know how my client is informed about the seed? If the server just sends it as a string to the client it might not be hard to manipulate that string by hacking (changing it's source and then building it) the server. Noclip: (I called it hacking because customized clients are also often called hacked clients ...) nephele: that's not hacking, that's just patching nephele: I don't know how it is send sorry nephele: but the worldgen is usually only serverside i think? because lua worldgen only runs serverside nephele: so no real easy way to predict where terrain would be precisely Hawk777: Seems to me there would be any number of easy ways to accomplish that. (1) modify the server code to send one seed number but internally actually use a different one is one option, but how about also (2) write another mapgen which works differently, but give it the same name as a well-known one? Noclip: Using lua just to make your mapgen unpredictable sounds like a good way to overload your server as lua isn't that fast for world generation. Hawk777: Well, I was assuming you’d do it in either Lua or C++, whichever was more convenient for the task at hand. * Hawk777: honestly doesn’t know which language existing mapgens are written in… Noclip: Hawk777: You could also change some of the mapgen parameters in `minetest.conf`. Noclip: The builtin mapgens are written in C++ as far as I know. nephele: Noclip, lua is fine, it's all JIT'ed anyway Hawk777: You could even modify the server to send to the client the real seed XORed with a specific hardcoded value; then you could run a whole fleet of servers with different seeds, and anyone who knows the magic value could get the real seed (presumably to replicate and explore the world offline) while anyone who doesn’t would be in the dark… Noclip: So a lua mapgen doesn't has to be (much) slower than a builtin C++ mapgen? nephele: No, not neccesarily nephele: what is slow is copying values from one scope to another, so that could give you considerable overhead nephele: it probably is slower though :D Noclip: I tried the Tectionia mapgen (lua mod) a while ago and it was horribly slow! I somtimes had to wait a minute for a single chunk to generate. The mod author said the code would be really bad and causing the slow generation but I didn't expect it to be that bad. I assumed lua would be a big part of that problem. Noclip: *Tectonic mapgen Noclip: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20066 Noclip: It looks really awesome but flying around and waiting for the terrain to generate is really a pain :( Noclip: !cmd ME thinking about floatlands: What's so bad about water leaking from the (rare) lakes? Noclip: Well it was a try ... * Noclip: tests something. Noclip: Ahh, that works! (The floatland question wasn't just a test.) cheapie: I think that car wash controller is finally about done, came out to 803 lines. cheapie: Now I just need to finish building the actual car wash, and then program in the wash cycles I want :P Noclip: I've replaced a ContentDB mod by it's newer github version and the builtin ContentDB manager now shows it as not installed. How does it know that? Does it generate and compare checksums? Noclip: (I like that 😄) ANAND: CDB adds extra fields to mod.conf to keep track of currently installed version ANAND: AFAIK, CDB checks for the presence of these fields to know if the mod is installed via CDB or not. Kimapr: minetest eats too much bandwidth Kimapr: on a server where pretty much nothing around me changes it manages to eat 55-66 KiB/s (where KiB is 1024 bytes) of it sfan5: that depends very much on the mods you have installed sfan5: I know of some mods that send the same data 60 times a second if it hasn't changed * nephele: makes a mental note to allow animated formspecs to be disabled MinetestBot: 02[git] 04tsao-chi -> 03minetest/minetest: Dockerfile: use alpine to reduce size (#9226) 13d7e706a https://git.io/JvjL2 (152020-04-12T09:00:56Z) Kimapr: sfan5: well it is just plain nodecore with several mods Krock: add profiler entries to the packet handler Krock: then use F6 to find the most sent packet sfan5: can't say anything specifically about nodecore, consider asking their devs about it Kimapr: i don't understand these symbols in profiler at all Kimapr: where can i see how many of which packet is sent? sfan5: without code change the only way is the --verbose log Kimapr: so you say i have to look at each packet sent and count them up? sfan5: every 20 seconds it prints a "client packetcounter" (values reset every 20s) Krock: or code change: in server.cpp handleCommand() L1042: ScopeProfiler sp(g_profiler, "ServerPkt (sum) " + pkt->getCommand()); Krock: respectively in client.cpp, same function, same code Krock: this will add entries for each packet in the F6 profiler Kimapr: `grep -o 'client packetcounter' .minetest/debug.txt` found nothing Kimapr: how do i grep those "client packetcounters"? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: GUIFormSpecMenu: Add basic element highlighing debug feature (#9423) 136cf15cf https://git.io/JvjtD (152020-04-12T10:02:32Z) Kimapr: oooooof Kimapr: i said `minetest --verbose` but it didn't go verbose in debug.txt Kimapr: inconsistencyyyyy-y-y Kimapr: and it doesn't follow `|` and `>` Kimapr: it just dumps it all to terminal sfan5: it does if you use 2>&1 Kimapr: what does dat mean nephele: it means redirect STDERR to STDOUT Kimapr: and no, it doesn't follow expected behaviour even if i use 2>&1 Kimapr: now it doesn't write to the file i'm redirecting it to at all Kimapr: > minetest --verbose 2>&1| cat > debug.txt nephele: why the | cat ? Kimapr: to write it to file nephele: Not neccesary nephele: > blah Kimapr: no it is nephele: is the part that writes to a file Kimapr: it doesn't work the other way nephele: > is the thing that opens the file on the rightside hand, and uses the STDOUT from the command on the left to write to the file Kimapr: > minetest --verbose 2>&1 > debug.txt lmat: minetest --verbose >& debug.txt Kimapr: i tried the command i sent above and it didn't work nephele: Kimapr, Sorry, but that is just wrong, try this instead "minetest --verbose 2> log.txt" or &> instead of 2> lmat: Kimapr: Yours doesn't work minetest --verbose > debug.txt 2>&1; Kimapr: `minetest --verbose 2>&1| cat > debug.txt` works Kimapr: so i'm fine with that Krock: how about: minetest --verbose > debug.txt 2>&1 Krock: it logs to a debug.txt here, although I don't have error messages that would need to be redirected Kimapr: so i found this Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: Client packetcounter (20): Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 2 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 3 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 32 count 399 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 39 count 2 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 41 count 4 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 42 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 49 count 10 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 50 count 599 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 51 count 3 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 52 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 58 count 1 Krock: thanks for pastebin Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 60 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 61 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 63 count 5 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 65 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 66 count 2 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 69 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 73 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 76 count 2 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 77 count 3 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 78 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 79 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 80 count 1 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 86 count 2 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 89 count 16 Kimapr: 2020-04-12 15:15:47: INFO[Main]: cmd 96 count 1 Kimapr: oops Kimapr: sorry this is too big Kimapr: looked smaller in the editor Kimapr: https://paste.debian.net/1139889/ Krock: TOCLIENT_ACTIVE_OBJECT_MESSAGES = 0x32, Kimapr: here Krock: that's alright rubenwardy: Command 50 and 32 are suspicious rubenwardy: Also, shame this doesn't tell you bytes or presumably fragmented packets rubenwardy: Big packets could be fragmented Krock: TOCLIENT_BLOCKDATA = 0x20, //TODO: Multiple blocks Krock: so you're getting many object messages and block data. former should be a bit lower, I think Kimapr: what is cmd 50? Kimapr: ah lmat: Kimapr: "useless use of cat" :-) (from earlier ^_^) Kimapr: cats are cute lmat: No argument there. sfan5: hmm I guess it could count bytes too rubenwardy: Is the logging definitely in hexadecimal, Krock ? sfan5: the logging is decimal sfan5: in the dev version it also already resolves the ID to a packet name rubenwardy: Then the IDs you gave were wrong rubenwardy: Oh wait, that's what 0x20=32 rubenwardy: And 0x32=50 rubenwardy: I just woke up Kimapr: MTG uses less bandwidth but is less fun Kimapr: https://paste.debian.net/1139890/ sfan5: might be worth checking out what all those object messages are lmat: How do I find jungle grass? I need some otton. lmat: I should say...I need a bed ^_^ nephele: search for jungle :D lmat: okay, I'll continue lmat: ice, ice as far as the eye can see! sfan5: I hate it when I create a new work and spawn in an ice biome sfan5: they seem way to common sfan5: too nephele: I was wondering if there is a way to get the mapgen to lay out the entire heat and humidity map in a specified area :) nephele: To make maybe, tinier worlds more reliably, or make looping worlds potentially lmat: Great, the ice gave way to desert. nephele: (X) doubt lmat: Maybe I fell asleep part of the way... nephele: if you don't have fast mode on maybe enable that nephele: then you can press e to go fast lmat: Does that work on a boat? nephele: I have no idea actually :) lmat: I found ferns... lmat: I guess that doesn't count as jungle. Astrobe: The other day I had to remake a world like 10 times because it came spawing me in large unfriendy biomes. Next time I'll try /find_biome. lmat: Are boats faster than walking? nephele: depends if you use speed mode or not Noclip: lmat: You could use _Amidst for Minetest_ (https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19869) to find a jungle biom. Krock: Amidst for Minetest Noclip: How do you do that? Krock: I have shorthand key presses using ctrl+[UIB] Krock: (hexchat client) nephele: Lol, i did not know Krock: 03,04know what? lmat: I found some jungle grass but it's really sparse. nephele: execute it for the common good, that'll show it to be sparse! lmat: found some cotton seed. Noclip: Im bridged in via matrix using the riot client and riot supports markdown so the underscores should make the text between italic. Inside the matrix room that worked fine but in the irc room it didn't. nephele: the matrix bridge is shit Noclip: It's a bit laggy but at the moment it seems to work fine. nephele: No, it doesn't :) Noclip: How do you mean that? You get my messages and I get your's. Wouldn't you consider that as "working fine"? sfan5: well it doesn't translate formatting correctly nephele: Noclip, Because your axiom is wrong, there is a very simple exploit against the bridge utilizing a "feature" it uses, i can execute a very very easy denial of service, and all i need is a matrix account and join the room Noclip: Yea, not everything but some formattings already work perfectly fine. Noclip: Ok and what would the result of that horrofic exploit look like? (I'm not asking you to show it, just to describe it 😂.) nephele: You can't read the irc messages anymore because i can replace arbitrary words with other arbitrary words Noclip: Well that doesn't sound that horrific at all or does it also effect other peoples messages? nephele: It affects all messages nephele: atleast from irc -> matrix nephele: but enough about that, this is the minetest channel :) Noclip: Ok now it sounds horrific ... freelikegnu: is a "Select your spawn biome" option unrealistic? sfan5: no Krock: if you want it before the world is shown to the client, it would require some work in the engine freelikegnu: I would appreciate such an option Krock: else you can just lock a player somewhere in the air and write a mod to check some locations Krock: takes probably half an hour to implement Krock: using the "spawn" API from minetest_game Noclip: I have a different idea if you want it just for you or your server: Search until you find the biom, then set the spawn to that point. Noclip: Do players spawn always at the same exact node if there is NO spawn set in minetest.conf? Astrobe: That can be time consuming, though. freelikegnu: I think it would be nice for a player to get list of available biomes to chose from regardless of mods installed as a feature of the engine zughy: ^ Astrobe: Someone published the other day a "decomposition" of the seed value freelikegnu: :o Astrobe: Saying that some digits correspond to certain things, including biomes at spawn point, IIRC. sfan5: Noclip: the position is not saved but I think the process might be deterministic enough that it's always the same freelikegnu: that takes me back to putting random codes into NES Metroid as a kid zughy: also guys, sorry if I jump in: where is the general menu style defined? I mean the shaded black-grey image under every button and such. I thought it was in builtin/textures/base/pack but apparently I was wrong Astrobe: Having lists of seeds is quite common in roglikes and other procgen-based games. Noclip: Astrobe: If you use "Amidst for Minetest" it should take you less than a minute. zughy: *minetest, not builtin DS-minetest: zughy: it's not an image, it's a hardcoded color gradient zughy: It's the gradient defined in the C++ version or in Lua? sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/renderingengine.cpp#L151 zughy: ty sfan5: the looks are part of Irrlicht's code freelikegnu: for a UI that says: "Ah this game is built with Irrlicht!" DS-minetest: hm, minetest could provide an own iguiskin zughy: yeah, that's what I'm trying to customise ahah DS-minetest: or just change the colors nephele: minetest definetely needs to be more pink :D DS-minetest: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/6cf15cf872cc9ce76990d83d380ca3c4b7485eb1/src/client/clientlauncher.cpp#L129 * freelikegnu: will never admit to wanting a Tcl/Tk theme zughy: Well, according to the init.lua in the base texture pack: "--for all other colors ask sfan5 to complete his work!" Noclip: nephele: Of course Astrobe: It seems that normal maps apply to entity textures, which doesn't look good on mob/skin textures that were done without that in mind. nephele: Noclip, i have controls over the default colors of my gamemode, so that is exactly what I do :DD sfan5: zughy: no idea what that is referring to AidanLCB_: I am releasing a mod using modified textures from default minetest_game under the MIT license, what do I put in the license.txt file about the textures? AidanLCB_: ping me in the response sfan5: AidanLCB_: each MTG mod has its own license file, check it to see which license applies to the files you use e.g. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/license.txt Noclip: nephele: Reminds me of this one: http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/ AidanLCB_: ok thx AidanLCB_: so do i just add it under the "License of Media" section? Astrobe: I remember there is public texture server. Is it configurable in minetest.conf ? Also, does it rely on the names of the assets, or on some sort of signature to identify the assets ? Noclip: Minetest was using only UDP so I don't set up firewall rules for TCP, correct? Krock: you'll need TCP port 80 if you want to provide a media server nephele: Well, yes, and no, http is tcp, so you need outgoing tcp if you want to contact the serverlist or something Krock: but normally you only need UDP nephele: Krock, you host stuff on port 80? pretty fishy Krock: 443 if you compiled cURL with SSL/TLS support Noclip: Outgoing is allowed by default and I don't want to contact the serverlist (private server). Noclip: So is UDP enough in this case? Noclip: (UDP 30000) nephele: Incoming udp is enough normally, yes Krock: the server list would only need outgoing port 80, no incoming because that's done by POST (?) requests to the main server list Krock: just for information Noclip: Then let's put my firewall skills to the test ... nephele: You do need incoming in the tcp-keep-state sense obviously :) nephele: if you need port 80 http Noclip: Isn't that seen also as outgoing by default? nephele: That depends on what your firewall thinks :P Noclip: I'm using ufw, that one doesn't make it to complicated xD nephele: I heavily dislike firewalls based on commands Noclip: why? nephele: You fuck up in your command and then you have an inconsitent state nephele: If you have one authoritve file for how the firewall looks it always follows that, there is no inbetween where it might "accidentally" leave something through Astrobe: Found the config thread about remote_media. It doesn't say what it uses to identify media, though. AidanLCB_: how do I find the license for one specific texture in minetest_game Noclip: I think you have to reload ufw to activate changes but I'm not 100% sure. nephele: Noclip, well, also, having one point of control is nice, querriny commands to inspect the firewall state feels so complicated freelikegnu: oof poor forum :P AidanLCB: when modifying the textures in minetest_game for my mod do I have to find the license for each specific texture or can I link to the mod's license.tx AidanLCB: license.txt freelikegnu: it depends on the terms of the license Noclip: nephele: On the other hand just doing `sudo ufw allow 30000/udp` isn't complicated at all. Noclip: And I don't have a professional setup with 10 running servers where I have to work a lot with the firewall. nephele: me neither, but that rule is too unspecifi for my taste nephele: that isn't anything about the server though.... nephele: err firewall nephele: just personal preference, and i don't think that reliability or having a single nice point of controll has anything to do with professional vs personal setups Noclip: What, I thought you are hosting your own matrix homeserver?! Astrobe: AidanLCB: the temrs and conditions are precisely in that file: "provide link to license and indicate if changes were made, etc". nephele: Noclip, so what? Noclip: (Sorry for using riot reply again) AidanLCB: ok Astrobe: AidanLCB, also, changing the licence to MIT might be an issue. AidanLCB: well im not trying to change it AidanLCB: just the code is under MIT Astrobe: ok, I misread. Noclip: nephele: So that's "a bit" more then just running a small minecraft or minetest server from time to time for a view hours for two people ... nephele: Eh, maybe a bit, but still not prefessional really nephele: I think i put more effort into my mail server than my matrix server AidanLCB: can I just provide a link to the license on github in my license.txt under textures/media Astrobe? nephele: no, you should copy the license of files you include :) AidanLCB: well how am i supposed to get that license nephele: what do you mean? AidanLCB: to a specific texture nephele: Check the folder it's in, if its not there then probably the mod folder above it somewhere has the license or mentions it nephele: if its not there either its probably in the game then AidanLCB: it just has it for the whole mod AidanLCB: not one texture nephele: so? does it say in the license you have to take the entire mod? :) AidanLCB: but i don't know what parts of the mods license are for what textures... Astrobe: For the defaut mode, README.txt under default/ lists the licenses for each texture file. AidanLCB: ok Noclip: I was talking originally talking about 10 servers and you're already at 2 now. I assume there is also a minetest server so that makes 3 then and I don't know how many servers there are still left ... nephele: no, just 2 deltanedas: hey, can someone on 5.2.0 please try to reproduce a bug? nephele: my minetest server is on the same one as matrix deltanedas: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9636 nephele: but that doesn't change that i am not a professional server hoster :P deltanedas: if entities look normal then its fixed deltanedas: (cant test myself, fdroid is outdated) Krock: déjà vu... looks like a duplicate report deltanedas: of? Krock: deltanedas: install Minetest on your Oscilloscope. Noclip: wow wow wow, I was talking about servers in the means of different server softwares not different computers / root servers! Krock: some run Linux, some Windows. Easy 5.2.0 installation. deltanedas: i do deltanedas: pc is ded Krock: R Krock: *F deltanedas: i cant compile on my phone Noclip: So that's 3 then. deltanedas: if i could itd die too nephele: Noclip, okay, well, public i have mail server imap+smtp; a server for matrix+ sometimes minetest; and privately i have a rpi3 that has my irc bouncer and wifi AP; and a build server for my flutter aps nephele: but i am not a professional :D nephele: i don't even work in IT Astrobe: A professional wouldn't do that shit on their spare time. Would play DOTA2 or whatever instead :D Krock: deltanedas: is it a falling node? #9525 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9525 -- Falling nodes glow in the dark deltanedas: nope, fake node from my mod Krock: what's a fake node? Krock: might be worthwhile posting the mod source for easier testing deltanedas: bitbucket.org/DeltaNedas/covers Krock: thanks deltanedas: visual is wielditem deltanedas: scale 0.668 nephele: Astrobe, haha Noclip: nephele: Ok that makes 5, you've won 😂 deltanedas: even if my mod is bad, doesnt explain players Krock: testing... deltanedas: but the issue is probably a dupe, for all entities deltanedas: not just sand nephele: SAND nephele: Noclip, won? in what? beeing a bad admin? nephele: speaking of, my tls cert expired, i thought i renewed it 3 days ago >:( Krock: deltanedas: the entity falls down.. the crate is left over Krock: but indeed, the entity lights up deltanedas: hmm sand fix merged 20 days ago Noclip: > "beeing a bad admin?" deltanedas: would appreciate if someone tested on 5.2.0 to confirm deltanedas: players may still be bugged because iirc its mesh visual nephele: Noclip, i don't understand what you ask, the reply makes it difficult :) Krock: deltanedas: lighting works, its default is just too bright deltanedas: oh? deltanedas: would negative glow fix that Krock: yes, you can test this by building a high pile, and a torch on the top, then drop a sand node on one of its sides Krock: negative glow is ignored AFAIK Noclip: lol that's not what I wanted to send, let's try again: Noclip: > "beeing a bad admin?" Noclip: You said that deltanedas: but are players fixed? Noclip: (I misstyped on riot and sent the message unwanted as reply and the irc bridge then completely freaked out on that message ...) nephele: Noclip, i said that, yes based on you saying "you've won" :) Krock: deltanedas: commented the issue. Please correct me if I observed something wrong deltanedas: looks good to me, thanks for helping out Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Noclip: Yea, you've won because you didn't want to be a professional and you don't have 10 servers so I decleared you now official as "not professional". I keep you the freedom to define for yourself what "not professional" means. Noclip: But don't forget, it was you saying "a bad admin" not me 😆 ... DS-minetest: for any two vectors v1 and v2, is v1, v2 and vector.cross(v1, v2) (in this order) left or right handed? DS-minetest: (and why isn't this documented );) nephele: Noclip, haha, well, i am certainly not a perfect admin :D nephele: speaking of which, afk... updating my cert... for real this time ... DS-minetest: ok, got it, left handed Noclip: Sounds like an inverted vectorproduct. DS-minetest: Noclip: (1, 0, 0), (0, 1, 0), (0, 0, 1) is left-handed in a left-handed system (as minetest has), in a right-handed system, the same result would be right-handed Noclip: Didn't know Minetest is left-handed. But I think in Minecraft the Z-Achsis shows in the other direction so Minecraft should be right-handed then. DS-minetest: they fear the challenge Noclip: Maybe it's not that bad: If you switch Y and Z in Minetest you get the default left-handed system with Z looking upwards. In Minecraft you have to change all three components to get that. DS-minetest: you mean right-handed Noclip: oops, yes zughy: uhm, where does the default font get assigned in the engine? I was look into fontengine.cpp but I can't see any "call" to Arimo, I guess it's not hardcoded Krock: see builtin/settingtypes.txt Krock: and src/defaultsettings.cpp zughy: ty :) Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Krock: Additional information: these settings can be changed in the main menu's settings, although it might result in a bugged client Krock: also yes, that bug is already reported zughy: Nah, I compiled it myself because I'm trying to tweak the whole main menu, I wasn't going for the settings approach anyway. But good to know Krock: rubenwardy is also working on a PR to improve it Krock: #/8758 Krock: #8758 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8758 -- Mainmenu: Add customisable pager, add new change game dialog by rubenwardy zughy: huh, nice, I was going with something more.. radical rubenwardy: so was I rubenwardy: that's the first PR only rubenwardy: there's two interlinked parts: the UX/navigation, and the appearance rubenwardy: I was doing the former only rubenwardy: see https://www.figma.com/proto/sXoPmpoSl7RzBQcbMJbUFn/MinetestMainMenu?node-id=1%3A2&scaling=min-zoom zughy: uhm, do you mind if I write you for a moment in private? I don't wanna flood/self-promote myself here rubenwardy: sure Wuzzy: oh man, the forums are still very broken. lots of error 500 Wuzzy: is celeron55 aware of this issue? Astrobe: I've read he is switching to a better VPS provider. Edgy1: yeah, VPS issues from what i hear Wuzzy: so where are those error 500s coming from, then? Wuzzy: not the forum software, huh? Noclip: Is 500 typical if a server is overloaded? sfan5: yes freelikegnu: maybe time to upgrade to pentium55 oil_boi_: sfan5 thank you for the clientside modding fixes!! sfan5: yw Nutty8: Astrobe, how did you do this to the ores?? Nutty8: Testus Minetest worlds are reeeeally small compared to minecraft ones, but I think that for a casual gameplay it's more than enough Astrobe: short story: with some scripting. Nutty8: but surely i would like to see bigger worlds XD Testus: Minetest: (62×10^3)^3 = 2,3833×10¹⁴ Testus: Minecraft: 256×(62×10^6)^2 = 9,8406×10¹⁷ Verticen: So minetest worlds are technically smaller than minecraft's? wow. They still seem to be a larger scale in terms of terrain scale though; mountains are taller and caves are bigger Nutty8: I think it's because minecraft stops depth at 0 Nutty8: minetest goes on with negative values Testus: (9,8406×10¹⁷)÷(2,3833×10¹⁴) = 4128,9808 --> A Minecraft world has 4128,9808 times as many blocks/nodes as a Minetest world. Astrobe: MT is a 65536x65536x65536 nodes. Astrobe: 65536x65536 is already slightly over 4 billions Testus: Minetest is only bigger at the Y Coordinate. Minetest worlds are ca. 62 000 nodes high while Minecraft worlds are only 256 blocks high. Nutty8: I always have to take a time to understand big numbers '=D X) Nutty8: like counting groups of three digits and going like "normal, thousand, million, billion(...)" Testus: However Minecraft worlds are 62 000 000 blocks long in X and Z direction (from one end to the other) while Minetest worlds are only 62 000 nodes long. Testus: In Minecraft their is a modpack which generates earth's surface on a 1 to 1 scale in the MC world. In Minetest this would be completely impossible as not even a small country would fit into the world. Testus: Let's face it, 62 kilometers (=62 000 nodes) isn't that much in the real world. Astrobe: That's a huge amount of static data. Accurate world coverage for just terrain altitude in flightsims easily go to to the gigabyte IIRC. Testus: 62 000 kilometers (Minecraft) is something completely different. oil_boi_: If we broke the world into another world handling method on top of the one we already have, we could have 2814749767106566^3 nodes per "super map block" (the current world size) which would give us 22,300,745,198,530,765,752,228,243,948,760,022,859,938,529,496 renderable nodes staying within the 16 bit integer limit oil_boi_: Now if you don't think that's very big, that is 4,294,967,296 in every direction. Minecraft is limited to 30,000,496 at the absolute generation limit cheapie: As unconvinced that I still am that there's actually a problem with the world size, I guess that *would* be one way to try to make the "62 km² is too small" people happy... cheapie: 3844 km²* oil_boi_: I usually barely go out 1000 so the only time I could see anyone having a problem with that cheapie is on a server with 1000+ users. I'm just talking hypothetical. Also it's not really about making people happy, it's more of the "wow" factor Nutty8: back from dinner cheapie: At the moment, the server I play on most has been around since at least 2014 (I think longer than that, VanessaE would be able to get you an exact number) and even then there's not much out past ±8000 in each direction. Testus: A while ago I played on a (medium sized) Minecraft anarchy server and there people recommended me to get at least 200k blocks away from spawn to build a secure base. So yes, on big servers this really could be a problem. VanessaE: that server's been around since mid 2012 I think Nutty8: I think the world size is satisfactory, if someday the devs make a transition from 16 bit to 32 bit numbers to deal with world size, the worlds can be much bigger VanessaE: though the server list has it at 7.0 years old Nutty8: Or no... I dont know how they handle this down to the engine... VanessaE: (she means daconcepts.com:30000, my Dreambuilder Creative server) Testus: Okay, building your base deep underground should solve the problem but without a teleportation mod you would then always need really long to get back up to the surface. (You can't just build a straight way up as hackers could spot your tunnel.) Testus: Could switching from 16 bit to 32 bit break some mods? Astrobe: The world size being ok or not depends on the movement speed. For instance 62km at IRL walking speed can be done in about 16 hours. Astrobe: You needed to go 200k away from spawn probably because they provided stupidly fast transports, which have the downside to make your world smaller. Testus: No they have stupidly fast hacks (it's an anarchy server so that's allowed) and the nether dimension which makes every distance 8 times shorter. Nutty8: Testus, about going up and down in a world, i try to make free fall vertical tunnels with scaffold blocks to stop falling at the point I want, but going up again is torture '=D Testus: But as I wasn't hacking and didn't take the whole thing too serious I went just around 50k blocks away from spawn. Actually I have no idea if that base still exists :D Nutty8: about the 16 bit --> 32 bit and mods, I think it would probably break mapgens, or not, my Astrobe: That's what I suspected. That's sort of, a degenerate case if I can say so. Nutty8: the devs can answer this properly Testus: Yea but as I said, those hackers could spot your tunnels as they are using things like x-ray. Testus: Well overall I think there a much more important things than bigger Minetest worlds but I would nevertheless be a nice feature. Astrobe: I watched the MC world 1:1 scale. They say they use google map data, but I thought their API was not free anymore ? Testus: I don't think getting this data is the problem. Minetest has also a mod or external programm for generating worlds from geographical data. Testus: But on the 1:1 scale it would just not fit into the world. nephele: On the other end, i would really like to have smaller (looping) minetest worlds nephele: I really enjoyed aswell the minecraft pocket edition worlds with a fixed world boundary nephele: i suppose the later one i could make with a hacked worldgen, but the first one definetely needs some engine support :2 Testus: Why not just adjust the world size in the minetest.conf file? Testus: Those mini-worlds were one of the reasons why I hated the old minecraft pocket edition ... Testus: VanessaE: Is the Scaffolding node in your Gloop Blocks mod just decorative? VanessaE: yes and no :P Testus: How do I have to understand that? VanessaE: that was Nekogloop's mod originally, but I took it over when he wandered off. at the time, scaffolding was some kind of active node. imho it didn't work very well so I reduced it to a simple node Testus: Yea, that's exactly what I meant with "decorative" :DD VanessaE: it WAS intended to be super cheap to make and easy to break though. I don't recall if I put that part into effect :P Testus: I think it needs just a small amount of wood and breaks similar fast as dirt so yea, you kind of did it. Testus: But if you don't care about the texture, you could also just use the good old dirt :') . orbea: Is heat/humidity from minetest.get_biome_data(ppos) restricted to only certain mapgens? VanessaE: Testus: most likely Neko did that part too :) VanessaE: the texture could perhaps use improvement. pull requests welcome :) Nutty8: Hello again! Nutty8: I wanted to ask something Nutty8: do you sometimes get stuck into blocks when spawning in a new world? Testus: Yes Nutty8: how do you get out of it? teleporting? Testus: That's how Minetest welcomed me in my very first world :') Testus: I did always just spawn inside of trees. Last time I could simply walk out of it. Otherwise punching the wood might help. Nutty8: :') :') :') :') :') :') Testus: Looks like you missed my last message: "I did always just spawn inside of trees. Last time I could simply walk out of it. Otherwise punching the wood might help." Nutty8: It happens to me a lot to spawn under stone :') Testus: But I can't remember ever spawning inside of stone or. Nutty8: you are lucky to spawn inside a tree, getting out of the void and getting the first wood at the same time :') Testus: Well at the first time I seriously thought Minetest wouldn't work on my computer as I just saw black and I were shocked. After a few minutes I finaly somehow found my way out of that tree ... :') Nutty8: I thought the same thing!! Nutty8: Saw the people discussing in the forum about how they could run minetest on a potato Nutty8: And I sitting in front of a black screen thinking Testus: "How can that potato be better than my pc???" Nutty8: this :') Nutty8: ahhh man, today was funny :') Nutty8: thanks for the chat, I'm going to sleep Testus: You're welcome dennisjenkins: Has anyone here tried Wuzzy's recent improvements to 'Hades Revisted' (v0.4.2) on Minetest v5.2.0? Andrey01: May anybody please host new forum? It`s so annoying to wait for half-minute or even longer to load single page Noclip: They told me celeron55 would be trying to switch to a better server so I think we just have to wait until that's done. Noclip: (And that's also all we can do ...) Noclip: DrFrankenstone: Thank you for updating the cloudlands mod to Minetest 5.2! 👍️ MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Various features and fixes 131292bdb https://git.io/JvhK8 (152020-04-11T11:12:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement minetest.sound_fade() 135f3a17e https://git.io/JvhK4 (152020-04-11T11:12:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: scriptapi: Sort out ServerEnvironment / Environment distinction properly 13054c5df https://git.io/JvhKB (152020-04-11T11:12:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: A few initialization cleanups 13f105bc8 https://git.io/JvhKR (152020-04-11T11:12:51Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04GreenXenith -> 03minetest/minetest: Use TILE_MATERIAL_ALPHA for use_texture_alpha entity flag (#9639) 13fbf74dc https://git.io/Jvh6E (152020-04-11T11:45:14Z) kuba_orlik: Hi there! I have trouble setting an admin for my server. I did put my username as "name" in the minetest.conf, restarted the server and then nothing changed... sfan5: hm sfan5: you can also manually add privleges using the sqlite3 tool on auth.sqlite sfan5: but that's more complicated than it should be kuba_orlik: oh, I just realized I pointed to the wrong config file, nvm kuba_orlik: is there a way to hide the entire server behind a password? sfan5: look into `default_password` kuba_orlik: ooh, that's cool kuba_orlik: thanks! kuba_orlik: I've set up a server with my friends and it's so much fun! :D kuba_orlik: We're trying to install a mod and I can't quite figure out how to do that kuba_orlik: I've downloaded and extracted the zip, but I don't know how to enable it on the server kuba_orlik: I only have CLI access rubenwardy: so, extract the folder to mods/ rubenwardy: this will probably be at ~/.minetest/mods rubenwardy: then make sure that there's either an init.lua or modpack.conf file in the extracted folder rubenwardy: for example, ~/.minetest/mods/mymod/init.lua rubenwardy: if there's not, you may need to pull subfolders out of the extracted folder - sometimes zips nest kuba_orlik: confirmed kuba_orlik: the init file is right in the mod's directory rubenwardy: then go to your world, and set `load_mod_mymod = true` for each mod. There may be more than one mod in the thing you downloaded rubenwardy: oops, set that in world.mt kuba_orlik: oooh ok kuba_orlik: then I should restart the server? rubenwardy: you should search for the modname - it'll create lines with = false for each mod that is disabled, and then set it to =true. IF the mod name isn't there, then add a line rubenwardy: yeah kuba_orlik: ok kuba_orlik: that worked! thanks :) kuba_orlik: I've installed Craft Guide. It mentions that it's a blue book - but how to access it? tf2ftw: kuba_orlik, open the command window and type :/craft tf2ftw: to clarify, type "craft" kuba_orlik: cool! kuba_orlik: it shows me 1/5 - I assume it means there are 4 more pages? How do i sift through the pages? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspec: No spec ID for static text labels 1301b3f26 https://git.io/JvhXO (152020-04-11T13:31:02Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop content_sao.{cpp,h} 135146086 https://git.io/Jvh1e (152020-04-11T14:07:17Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Move PlayerSAO to dedicated files 13894a34a https://git.io/Jvh1v (152020-04-11T14:07:17Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: pass clang-format 13c99e8df https://git.io/Jvh1f (152020-04-11T14:07:17Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Add vscode cmake plugin files to gitignore 132a7267f https://git.io/Jvh1J (152020-04-11T14:07:17Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Move serveractiveobject & unitsao 136d43736 https://git.io/Jvh1U (152020-04-11T14:07:17Z) Nutty8: fresh commits? =D rubenwardy: minty Nutty8: Wow that's very good :') nephele: Is there a way to fall back for textures? Asking since for my gamemode i have a couple of nodes that share textures, but realistically a texture pack author probably wants to be able to texture them individually, so i would like an option for thme to "just" drop pngs in the correct place to use as node textures sfan5: no need to nephele: why not? sfan5: texture pack authors have the ability to set texture overrides for each face of a node nephele: how does that work? i thought texture names are global, does mt alocate some unique names or so? kuba_orlik: "craftguide is also integrated in sfinv " - what's sfinv? How do I enable it? kuba_orlik: is it a mod? sfan5: nephele: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/texture_packs.txt#L145 sfan5: kuba_orlik: sfinv is the name of the inventory built into minetest_game with the different tabs (if any) nephele: sfan5, hmm, i see nephele: Can i also make my default textures into a pack? to make changing it and copying it easier? sfan5: users would be forced to enabl the pack so that there are any textures at all, kinda inconvenient sfan5: you sure could but I don't really see any advantage sfan5: texture pack stuff is also somewhat complicated when you run a pure server nephele: Ah, yeah nephele: I have (most) of my textures namespaced though, so copying them out and figuring out which is which shouldn't be too difficult sfan5: someone can always just find path/ -name '*.png' -exec cp {} somewhere_else/ \; nephele: cp game/mods/*/textures/*.png myfolder/ is faster :P nephele: atleast, to memorize... find is always a bit, oh well nephele: heh... that doc sais wieldhand.png is hardcoded... but i can overwrite the hand tool to use a different texturename :g nephele: Would be nice if someone could take a look at my (fairly trivila) pr for default stack sizes again, at this point please just comment or kill it, having it hang around for months isn't encouraging: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8873 sfan5: !title MinetestBot: sfan5: Add default stack size setting by SmallJoker · Pull Request #8873 · minetest/minetest · GitHub sfan5: well sounds good to me nephele: sfan5, do you mean, the item default? nephele: default_node is only used once sfan5: oh thought it was the same setting sfan5: why would you have nodes and items stack differently? sfan5: well I guess it's fine nephele: Well, I don't see much use grouping them together nephele: and i don't know how a setting in the ui would adequately explain that it applies to items and nodes :) sfan5: with its description? nephele: Anyway, I do think that server operators should be able to set those independantly nephele: I can adjust the patch to check stacksize_default_item only once anyhow nephele: (and then ask Krock nicely to push an updated version.. :) nephele: (i think this is a bit more readable though, no indirection, but that is just my 2c) hisforever: Hi I need to know what mod has the flowers in a pot for windows sfan5: !mod flower pot MinetestBot: sfan5: flowerpots [flowerpots] by D00Med - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16573 - https://github.com/D00Med/flowerpots sfan5: perhaps that one works hisforever: thanks Stan 5 Krock: also Krock: !mod xdecor MinetestBot: Krock: X-Decor [xdecor] by jp - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12534 - https://github.com/minetest-mods/xdecor nephele: Is 5.2 compatible with 5.1 as in, that 5.2 clients work fine on a 5.1 server? hisforever: Krock: thats the one I needed Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! nephele: I have some formspec coordinate stuff, that i think only got in 5.2? but i dont think the freebsd port i want to use for the server is updated Krock: the server must be 5.1.0+ to properly send formspec_version nephele: i am not using formspec_version nephele: i am using real_coordinates Krock: does not matter which version the server has nephele: it's 5.1.1 anyhow, so in that case probably fine Talkless: Hi. we'r playming multiplauer with friend Lord of the Test. In the beginning, the world was created with static_spawn Talkless: later, I've removed it Talkless: but now, even after removing it, sleeping in the bed does not set new spawn point :/ Talkless: is there a way to fix it? Talkless: playing multiplayer* Talkless: Could it be that beds does not work because.. they were stolen? (from NPC) nephele: Ah yes, only took me 1 minute to break my gamemode by taking away all my permissions except for... give... :D lmat: Talkless: You adjusted the server setting then restarted the server? nephele: Wuzzy, the setting will /never/ be able to fix that some settings should be namespaced to gamemodes or worlds, like other settings setting it carelessly can be destructive, just like i can set my fov to 2 or set my water waving height to 200 anyway, the setting is designed for one easy task, let server owners set a defualt Talkless: lmat: yes I've restarted few times already. I only start it before we continue game session with friendas (it does not worj 24/7) Talkless: friends* nephele: And server owners, suprisingly, dont want to maintain a patchset against builtin, hence this setting nephele: there is /literally/ no other way with the current design to get a reliable default, not even for gamemode, so to say they "rely" on them is kind of stupid, moreso that they have to work around it by explicitly setting something that should have just been a setting in the first place Talkless: maybe I should try sethome? Talkless: give "home" permissions to friends too, as workaround? nephele: Modders don't have to support any settings you use in your client, if they want they can target only default, there are already ways to change the default stack setting, just that they are much more horrible and require quite a lot of effort to set up for server owners, practically reinventing the wheel each time lmat: What the crap... Minetest uses a left-handed coordinate system!? * lmat: shakes head Nutty8: Hello! Talkless: Should I see spawn point in players.sqlite? Nutty8: How can I beat the stone underground mobs of NSSM mods? Nutty8: mod* MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Reduce ServerEnvironment propagation (#9642) 135cc06e4 https://git.io/JvhHS (152020-04-11T17:59:43Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Implement DPI scaling for Windows (#9586) 1340df393 https://git.io/JvhHh (152020-04-11T18:03:59Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pauloue -> 03minetest/minetest: Update API site build (#9622) 13840b17c https://git.io/Jvh7f (152020-04-11T18:38:39Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04IFRFSX -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Add Basic Fire Description (#2568) 1336b2bcb https://git.io/Jvh7B (152020-04-11T18:50:49Z) sfan5: Wuzzy: https://old.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/fzei31/bugs_520_mineclone2_bug_reporting/ Talkless: what I have to do for sheep to not dissapear? Wuzzy: thanks Wuzzy: use a nametag on them Wuzzy: and make sure they dont escape or die 😉 Talkless: and what I have to do to not die? Krock: Wuzzy: I left another bug report on the forums. one mod in ITEMS/ calls to a get_content_id that's not needed and moreover pointing at an unknown node Talkless: it was in enclosed area, three sides fence, one side stone wall. Wuzzy: this bug was fixed 3 versions ago Wuzzy: ↑ @Krock Talkless: is there a wiki page about growing animas? Talkless: I can't find it Talkless: "Farming" talks about vegetables.. Wuzzy: Talkless: which game you play? Krock: according to my diff Talkless: Lord of of the test Talkless: Wuzzy: Krock: /mods/ITEMS/mcl_hoppers/init.lua ("mcl_chests:chest") Wuzzy: i already told you the content_id was fixed 3 versions ago Krock: HEAD ist jetzt bei 40b5c5c2 Version 0.54.1 Krock: git pull Krock: Bereits aktuell. Wuzzy: upgrade to 0.63.0 Wuzzy: which repo do you pull from? Wuzzy: this is the official repo: https://git.minetest.land/Wuzzy/MineClone2.git Krock: $ git remote get-url origin Krock: https://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2.git/ Krock: ah. Krock: got the new version now, thanks. Krock: why does the repo.or.cz not redirect to the other? that was the URL I originally used in 2017 to clone it Krock: really confused right now Wuzzy: Because I just completely forgot about this repo 😀 Krock: might be wise to also get rid of other similar repos MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix broken config check in 659245a 13ba3587e https://git.io/Jvh5X (152020-04-11T19:29:57Z) Talkless: Wuzzy: any ideas how to make sheep alive? Talkless: now it was enclosed fully within wooden fence Wuzzy: again, which game/mod? Talkless: [22:26] Lord of of the test Wuzzy: oh Wuzzy: The correct answer then is "I have no freaking clue whatsoever." 😀 Talkless: ok :) Krock: est31: hello. Does the Android build currently work? F-Droid needs an update :) * DS-minetest: thought a bit about the "make sheep alive". make a mod that allows to build a sheep statue with sheep flesh and wool, then place a technic cable next to it and wait until it gets enough power to be alive Wuzzy: Talkless: the Minetest Wiki doesnt contain much information about speicic games other than Minetest Game. The Minetest Wiki is mostly about Minetest itself, as the name suggests Talkless: Yea right. And minetest default does not have sheep? Talkless: tamable sheep Talkless: ? Talkless: what is the core principle in the default game? sfan5: sandbox with some incomplete surival elements sfan5: survival* calcul0n_: mobs_redo has tamable animals that you can keep alive with a protection rune Wuzzy: Minetest Game has no mobs built in Wuzzy: Minetest Game is pretty minimalist by design Talkless: calcul0n_: oh, protecion rune :/ DS-minetest: I wouldn't call the mapgen stuff of mtg minimalist calcul0n_: Talkless, note i don't think such thing exist in lord of the test MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Df458 -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspecs: Add state-selection to style elements (#9378) 13f780bae https://git.io/JvhdS (152020-04-11T20:39:30Z) est31: Krock: isn't that nerzhul's job? Extex: How do you change the leave/join/time_out message? Krock: est31: >est31 (@ chat.freenode.net) for f-droid. As f-droid signs its apps itself, the release can be done without him. Krock: https://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest appguru: without whom? Krock: never mind. will ask nerzhul :D appguru: yeah, nerzhul has been quite active these days MinetestBot: 02[git] 04appgurueu -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve waypoints and add image variant (#9480) 13af2e6a6 https://git.io/JvhFX (152020-04-11T21:09:46Z) lmat: What is a minetest waypoint? appguru: Things floating in the air showing you interesting locations on your HUD DS-minetest: !api lmat MinetestBot: lmat, someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt lmat: wait, appguru ! You're the one who made the commit!? Would you sign this for me!? appguru: :P appguru: I wrote the PR, that's all - also, I only improved waypoints, I didn't invent them appguru: That PR basically adds alignment, offset & precision to waypoints, and adds image waypoints rubenwardy: well actually, appguru is the US version. appgurueu is for those subject to GDPR appguru: lol appguru: I use appgurueu on GitHub because appguru was already taken appguru: But I managed to get appguru here, and I prefer to take that lmat: appguru: \o/ appguru: Apart from that I'm also known as LMD appguru: Or appgurulars appguru: Confusing times lmat: appguru: Next I was going to ask if you committed this directly to master :-o appguru: No, actually not appguru: I'm just a mere contributor lmat: appguru: What PR? appguru: That PR lmat: 9480 I guess appguru: Yes rubenwardy: #9480 appguru: Was a rather small one, also ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9480 -- Improve waypoints and add image variant by appgurueu lmat: appguru: nice. appguru: Thanks appguru: I'll now try to improve the mainmenu appguru: #9505 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9505 -- Mainmenu Improvements: "Join Game" tab + code cleanup by appgurueu appguru: rubenwardy: I had a dirty idea regarding that appguru: I could force all formspecs to be the same size, but have them be without background appguru: And then emulate the background using a box element lmat: appguru: Congrats on the PR! DS-minetest: that's actually already the case appguru: Thanks again, but really, there's lots of other contributors with far more meaningful PRs DS-minetest: the root element is a huge statictext appguru: Hmm appguru: Anyways appguru: That would mean that the content would not be perfectly centered anymore appguru: But the tabs wouldn't move appguru: And all content would be nicely right-aligned appguru: * left-aligned Extex: How do you change the leave/join/time_out message? rubenwardy: Extex: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L5301 Extex: Ty misspapaya: is there a way to send server commands from a source other than in game? misspapaya: nevermind I got it dennisjenkins: misspapaya: I am curious about this also. What did you find? ssieb: I was running a minetest server on my laptop and it turned out it to be more popular with my kids than expected, so I would like to move it to my server instead. ssieb: It's been a few years since I ran a standalone minetest server and I seem to be missing some details. Things have probably also changed with 5.x. rubenwardy: hey again ssieb: What is the process to move it over? I've copied the world directory to /var/lib/minetest, created the /etc/minetest/world.conf file. But where do I put the mods? rubenwardy: it's as simple as copying the world directory and mods to the server rubenwardy: /var/lib/ doesn't look like the right directory - is that the system one? ssieb: yes rubenwardy: *is that choosen by your pkg mgr or you? ssieb: I'm trying to run it as a system service. (I use Fedora) rubenwardy: hmm rubenwardy: I'd put it in /var/lib/ rubenwardy: you can put the working dir there, and have a mods folder and a worlds folder ssieb: I'm not sure what needs to be in the minetest.conf file either since most settings seem to go with the world. rubenwardy: server_announce, enable_ipv6, default_privs, etc ssieb: /usr/share/minetest seems to be the global data storage rubenwardy: yeah, you shouldn't install mods there rubenwardy: unless you get them from rpm rubenwardy: I think fedora is rpm? ssieb: oops, I think I found the problem ssieb: the minetest-server package doesn't require the minetest package, probably to avoid automatically dragging in a ton of graphical dependencies ssieb: so I'm looking at really old data from before in /usr/share/minetest sfan5: uh sfan5: it should depend on minetest-common (or whatever) though so that the correct stuff gets installed sfan5: rubenwardy: btw since you mentioned enable_ipv6, it's enabled by default but doesn't make the server listen on ipv6 sfan5: which can also be surprising when you connect to localhost (::1) and minetest is only listening on 127.0.0.1 ssieb: There probably should be a minetest-common, but there isn't. rubenwardy: I've noticed recently that I can't connect to localhost on my computer from MT ssieb: rubenwardy: it can't go right in /var/lib. The minetest server runs as user 'minetest', so wouldn't have permissions. And selinux might get annoyed as well. rubenwardy: I meant as a subfolder rubenwardy: /var/lib/minetest/worlds ssieb: oh, like that. ssieb: The systemd service is setup so the world folder is directly under /var/lib/minetest rubenwardy: then change it? ssieb: What would be the benefit of that? I would also probably have to change how it was compiled. I'll see if I can get it working now that I found out I'm missing all the game data. rubenwardy: services are text files rubenwardy: does fedora apply patches to minetest? ssieb: I haven't looked for a while. I'll check. rubenwardy: I self-compile Minetest, and run it at /home/minetest/.minetest because my / is limited to 20GB, but my /home is 980GB rubenwardy: so I've avoided it that way rubenwardy: I'm planning to do light containerisation of minetest in the future, by giving each server its own root folder MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix delayed error message in start game tab 133833396 https://git.io/Jvhxp (152020-04-11T23:12:18Z) ssieb: rubenwardy: no patches, just extra files like the desktop and logrotate configs sfan5: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/minetest# sfan5: >Generates a overview image of a minetest map sfan5: lol sfan5: can't actually find a minetest-server package there ssieb: Not sure what's happening there. There is a minetestmapper package with that description, but that's not it. sfan5: "Error loading the data for this page element" yeah okay ssieb: https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/search?match=glob&type=package&terms=minetest* ssieb: that * needs to be in the url sfan5: oh apparently it produces an minetest-server rpm but that doesn't in the name sfan5: and apparently they package minetestserver without builtin? https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/rpminfo?rpmID=21024648 sfan5: (unless minetest-server depends on minetest, which makes no sense) sfan5: fedora packages look hopelessly broken sfan5: you should compile from source or use stuff like docker if you prefer that ssieb: The minetest src package generates both the minetest and minetest-server packages ssieb: The minetest package requires the minetest-server package, but there really should be a minetest-common as well. ssieb: It works fine at least for the client, but I forgot about how the files were split, so I was missing them on the server. ssieb: I'll try contacting the maintainer and ask about that. sfan5: a minetest-common package should contain at least builtin, games and doc sfan5: arch went a bit overboard and also packages some client-only stuff https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/minetest-common/ sfan5: (but that doesn't really hurt, the largest burden comes from pulling in all those graphical libs) DS-minetest: weeeeeeeeee, forums are super fast at the moment sfan5: not so loud! you'll break them DS-minetest: oops, sry MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Play 'player_jump' when player jumps (#9373) 13a24d3b3 https://git.io/JvhpX (152020-04-11T23:50:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04testman42 -> 03minetest/minetest: Update README copyright to current year (#9566) 13b55dd5d https://git.io/JvhpS (152020-04-11T23:53:23Z) misspapaya: Do trees grow underground? Extex: Yes Extex: But you need to put a meselamp right next to sapling Extex: And it needs enough room to grow misspapaya: thanks AidanLCB: How would I get minetest server 5.0 on a pi running raspbian lite using only ssh with no desktop envirement misspapaya: install minetest, run `minetest --server` in a screen session misspapaya: there's some more steps to it but that's the general concept AidanLCB: I know what to do once I install it assuming its similar to 4.17 however idk how I would get it in the first place rubenwardy: try apt install minetestserver or minetest-server AidanLCB: unless it was updated recently it is still on 4.17 on debian rubenwardy: consider compiling it yourself? It's not that difficult on linux rubenwardy: you can also install from backports rubenwardy: I think that's a thing AidanLCB: ok juan_: hi there folks...greetings from spain. tf2ftw: Hi. Is there some way to sheer the sheep from mobs_animals ? AidanLCB_: I downloaded and compiled minetestserver through ssh on my pi now how could I download unzip, and install minetest_game all through ssh tf2ftw: AidanLCB_, you can use curl or wget to pull the zip. install unzip (apt-get install unzip) then unzip the file AidanLCB_: ok thx AidanLCB_: how do I stop a minetest server installed with git AidanLCB_: Im trying the commands on the "setting up a server" page on the wiki and it doesn't work probably as i installed it a different way nephele_: AidanLCB_: the tool you are looking for is called scp or sftp nephele_: it allows you to transfer files over ssh AidanLCB_: oh ok nephele_: oh, i misunderstood, i thought you had a local version, if you just want the main version use https via wget as suggested :) AidanLCB_: i figured out how to use git for it but how can i stop the server nephele_: if you like a gui tool you can use htop for instance, if you just want to kill any and all minetest instances you could use "pkill minetest" AidanLCB_: i just want to shut down the server normally AidanLCB_: i imagine killing the task could cause some problems AidanLCB_: as well as not alerting online players nephele_: the default for pkill is SIGTERM, not SIGKILL nephele_: it's a bit confusing, on unix the "kill" and "pkill" commands send signals, not neccesarilly kill stuff, if you use pkill -9 minetest the os will kill the server without warning, but the default uses sigterm (-15), which gracefully asks the server to shutdown nephele_: and the server should likely support that :) AidanLCB_: ok nephele_: if you want a longer running instance you should probably look into supervision for your os, that could be a systemd service, or maybe an s6 supervisor based on what distro/os you have AidanLCB_: kk AidanLCB_: can someone tell me how to access minetest.conf in terminal with a server tf2ftw: AidanLCB_, I'm going to assume you have no clue what vim is so I'll suggest using nano to do that: nano /root/.minetest/minetest.conf AidanLCB_: yeah im new to linux AidanLCB_: ok tf2ftw: we all start new at some point :) AidanLCB_: tho i used ls to see and i didnt think anything was there tf2ftw: try: cat /root/.minetest/minetest.conf AidanLCB_: no such file or directory AidanLCB_: im just making a new one and using --config tf2ftw: Also, did you forget the step about copying the example conf? AidanLCB_: uh yeah lol AidanLCB_: i just used guide on github tf2ftw: # zcat /usr/share/doc/minetest/minetest.conf.example.gz > /etc/minetest/myservername.conf tf2ftw: my example commands prior this the one above were wrong (my bad) AidanLCB_: what would the server be called by default? tf2ftw: I would just call it minetest.conf AidanLCB_: kk AidanLCB_: again says file doesn't exist tf2ftw: if you start running multiple servers you would want dedicated confs but I dont think you're there yet AidanLCB_: yeah definitly not lol tf2ftw: how did you install minetest? tf2ftw: you downloaded it? AidanLCB_: i doubt a pi could handle multiple AidanLCB_: i used git and cmake AidanLCB_: i just downloaded minetest-server and minetest_game tf2ftw: any particular reason? What distro is the pi running? AidanLCB_: raspbian lite AidanLCB_: essentially debian AidanLCB_: debian repos are super out of date AidanLCB_: they still have 4.17 AidanLCB_: i also couldn't figure out how to add backports tf2ftw: use this tf2ftw: add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable tf2ftw: apt-get update AidanLCB_: command not found AidanLCB_: apt install works tf2ftw: damn im tired. i gave you the wrong stuff again. One sec AidanLCB_: kk its fine tf2ftw: take a look at this. tf2ftw: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/chris-roerig/minetest-stuff/master/install-minetest-server-on-ubuntu-19.sh tf2ftw: the ppa was just updated so the version of MT is 5.2 something i think tf2ftw: im off to bed. good luck AidanLCB_: kk cya ShadowNinja: Website has seen a pretty significant bump in traffic recently: https://share.riseup.net/#cYuvvFIYsTvZ9K_fvtCFDA nephele_: tf2ftw: oof, who runs the server as root :o AidanLCB_: im fine with running server as root since its private AidanLCB_: if i do a public server ik not to do that nephele_: AidanLCB_: still means that a programming error could potentially trashy your system, there isn't any benefit running it as root anyway AidanLCB_: ok its not root tho as what the other person said most of it didn't work so i did't actually use root tf2ftw: nephele, lol :D Astrobe: "Please chose a name!". Sure, but a name for what ? nephele: I also wonder :) Astrobe: It's neither server_name or admin name, cause both are filled in my .conf. I guess I gotta adopt a kitty and give it a name. Guest46882: Hello Guest46882: Does anyone know if you can make a train track go around a corner Guest46882: I forget what mod pack we are using for the tracks rubenwardy: are the trains detailed and the tracks full 3d rail tracks? rubenwardy: sounds like rubenwardy: !mod advtrains MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Advanced Trains [advtrains] by orwell - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14726 - https://github.com/h-v-smacker/advtrains_granite Astrobe: wiat, that was an old error message because the program does not output deubg.txt info in this case Guest46882: I'll check. thank you nephele: Old error message? i got that when shutting down 5.3-dev though :) Astrobe: Hmmm... portable version but it looks for worlds in a hardcoded path by default. Half my fault it seems, for not providing --world(path) Astrobe: ... doesn't give a fack about "--world ." Astrobe: I guess the portable windows version is not intended for hosting then. nephele: windows is not really a server os, heh :) Astrobe: Linux is not really a user os, heh ;-) nephele: True... Astrobe: Oh well, I can move that world to where it expects it. Astrobe: wait wait wait. All my fault. Bad copy/paste. Sorryyyy ! nephele: Heh, no worries, happens to the best of us MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Calinou -> 03minetest/minetest: Install the `locale` directory in a standard location without subfold… 132349d31 https://git.io/JvhJ5 (152020-04-10T14:08:48Z) nephele: Is there some way to get nodes that have textures with alpha value to render properly in the inventory and hand? nephele: they seem to be cutoff if their alpha value is below a certain threshold, making them almost invisible (apart from like 2 pixels for one node i have) Astrobe: dunno, but you can specify an image for inventory (which should also apply to hand?) nephele: Nope, it does not apply to the hand :) Testus: The Forum-registration only lets me select British English as Language. Is that normal? Testus: Wow, I sent my registration and the forum had a 504 gateway time-out :( Lone_Wolf: Yeah the forums are a little laggy lately Lone_Wolf: I think c55 is switching to a better VPS Testus: Seems that I had luck and my registration reached the server as I got an E-Mail. Testus: Is the Server overloaded? Sometimes the Forum seems to work without any problems and then there are times where you have to reload it 5 times. sfan5: yes kuba_orlik: hi there! I've just set up a server and it says that minimap is disabled, how can I enable it? sfan5: you need a mapping kit item sfan5: then as long as you keep it in your inventory, you can use the minimap kuba_orlik: how do I get it sfan5: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mapping_Kit kuba_orlik: thanks! kuba_orlik: Do I have to restart a server to enable a freshly downloaded mod? sfan5: yes, you need to enable it in the menu anyway kuba_orlik: Ok, I'm very new to this kuba_orlik: how do I enter the menu? kuba_orlik: during the game? sfan5: in the mainmenu there's a "configure" button kuba_orlik: how do I change fullscreen resolution? kuba_orlik: How do I change fullscreen resolution? Lone_Wolf: What's your OS? Windows? kuba_orlik: Linux Lone_Wolf: For fullscreen you might be able to do ALt+F11 kuba_orlik: yeah, got that - now I just want to reduce the resulotion sfan5: you should be able to change screen_w and screen_h in advanced settings sfan5: you have to disable "autosave screen size" for that, though MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Drop genericobject.{cpp,h} (#9629) 13f648fb7 https://git.io/Jvhmz (152020-04-10T17:49:20Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Move clientsimpleobject.h to client folder (#9630) 1335e778e https://git.io/JvhYl (152020-04-10T18:10:51Z) Testus: Wuzzy: You've reported a bug in the cloudlands mod today on the forum. Do you know if the undocumented function "file_exists" is the only reason for the mod not working in MT 5.2? I tried to remove the function-call from the lua file (without breaking the syntax) but minetest still crashed. (I'm not an expert, I could have done something wrong.) Wuzzy: no Wuzzy: mod author was alerted, so its up to author to fix it now orbea: mobs_water https://i.imgur.com/UnfQ94D.png MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Print error if invalid mapgen alias was detected (#9579) 13aa3cf40 https://git.io/JvhOC (152020-04-10T18:36:16Z) justpassing: Hello everyone justpassing: I've just run into an issue, after adding probably to many mods and cannot find a forum topic on the issue, nor is there anything in the troubleshooting FAQ: when I start a game there are no textures nor light. when i fly up sky and clouds are rendered, but when I turn off fly and drop, everything fades back to black. I'm running on Linux justpassing: (Manjaro/Arch) and the Kernel does not seem to be the issue, because I just changed that for a different reason. Reinstalling MT has not made a difference either Noclip: Are there really issues with the textures or is the world just empty (no nodes were generated)? justpassing: no i can see the outlines of the nodes. the Hand is black aswell. I've tried changing the Texturepack DS-minetest: justpassing: have you tried disabling shaders? sfan5: model of graphics card? justpassing: yes. also to ne effect justpassing: gt 520m sfan5: version of installed driver? justpassing: videovesa justpassing: I just tried it on the Dreambuilder Survival server which works fine. it's the local games which I seem to have bunged up sfan5: hm sfan5: open a terminal, run "minetest --verbose" then you can immediately close the window again, take the first 50 or so lines from the output and pastebin them sfan5: the window = the Minetest window that opens Noclip: Vanilla Minetest Game (no additional mods) works finde, does it? justpassing: nope. Mods or not the issue persists justpassing: It only seems to be a problem in the Default Game, Minimal Developmenttest and Skyfactory. Other Games such as Mineclone, Hades, RPGtest, and Whynot work cheapie: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20200410_151319.png DS-minetest: what keeps the fire burning? Noclip: Isn't Whynot just Minetest Game with a huge Modpack? Noclip: justpassing: Which version of Minetest are you using? cheapie: DS-minetest: It's the "permanent flame" DS-minetest: ah justpassing: Minetest 5.1.1 Noclip: Are there coal blocks below or did you just place it in creative / with `/giveme`? Noclip: justpassing: Did you try upgrading to Minetest 5.2? Noclip: (It's already as Flatpak available.) justpassing: No I haven't tried the Flatpak yet justpassing: from the verbose output: justpassing: 2020-04-10 22:25:31: INFO[Main]: - Rebuilding images and textures2020-04-10 22:25:31: INFO[Main]: SourceImageCache::getOrLoad(): No path found for "" justpassing: Here's the verbose outout from the console: https://pastebin.com/uNFqNkDm Nutty8: Hello! Do someone here play Minetest Game with NSSM mod? Nutty8: (Do/Does)? Nutty8: How can I remove and collect the spider web? '=D Astrobe: you prolly need a sword. sfan5: justpassing: the graphics bugs you are seeing could very well be related to nouveau sfan5: though it's strange that it works on remote servers sfan5: so it probably really is a mod justpassing: I cleared out the mod folder though to see if having so many installed may be causing the problem, but it made no difference. the Flatpak works fine Nutty8: Astrobe, It didn't work :( Nutty8: but thanks anyway :D justpassing: Ok, so I removed MT, moved the ~/.minetes directory (as a backup) and reinstalled MT. now the Vanilla game works again Astrobe: Nutty8: it is defined as "snappy" as a rope so maybe you need a better sword ? Nutty8: Like a sword made of iron or better? Nutty8: the one I used was made of cobblestone Astrobe: prolly. Cobblestone is usually next to lowest level. Nutty8: Will try to upgrade right now, thanks ;D =D justpassing: Thank you very much for the help though jared_: Hi Guest78483: Im kind of new to this whole open source this. How can i get started with modding, and that sort of thing? jluc: look at the code of a mod and enjoy Guest78483: I mean, like, creating mods Guest78483: I like the premise of the game, i just wish i could do something about the feel of it. sfan5: !book MinetestBot: sfan5: Minetest Modding Book - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/ Guest78483: Thanks! Guest78483: also, im not entirely sure how to change my name. im still very new to IRC, Linux, and all that calcul0n: type /nick calcul0n: your client may have tools for that too Guest78483: Perfect, thanks Astrobe: Got an MSVC++ error wih set_rotation { 0, 0, math.pi/2 } -- I always forget the .x= etc. Astrobe: Speaking of, there's no set_spin([vector, radians/sec]) yet, right ? sfan5: I believe someone recently requested that feature orbea: from in game how do I get the biome name? sfan5: get a mod to do it sfan5: local biome = minetest.get_biome_data(pos) sfan5: biome = biome and minetest.get_biome_name(biome.biome) or "" orbea: ah, i suppose that works orbea: would be nice if it was visible with F5 sfan5: the client doesn't actually have this information orbea: ah... Testus: It would be awsome if F5 would show the (node related) light level at the position of the player. Minecraft does it and it is extremely usefull when lighting up an area to make for example sure that plants can also grow in the night. Testus: By the way: The shown Y-Coordinate is the position of the feet, is it? Astrobe: Debug display is a terrible gameplay element, better use in-game tools for that. Astrobe: The Y-coordinate is in "nodes". Astrobe: All coordinates are in nodes. MT doesn't give a royal fack about weird units. Nutty8: if i'm not mistaken, minetest higher light level is 15, but torches only reach 12, for farming underground I think the block super glow glass from the mod moreblocks very very useful as its light level is 14 =D Testus: Astrobe: I'm not talking about the (strange) unit feet, I'm talking about the player's feet (those things at the lower end of your legs ...). As the Y-Coordinate shows XX.5 the knees might be more precise than the feet. Astrobe: lol, I missred that. Yes, it is the position of the "origin" of the model, which is now at the feet of the plyaer avatr. Testus: Nutty8: The Mese Lamp included in Minetest Game also has light level 14. Nutty8: Mese crystals are much more rare than two torches and one glass '=D Nutty8: I prefer the super glow glass because of this ;D calcul0n_: i you have the circular saw you can make mini slabs too calcul0n_: ie 8 lamps with same light level with one block Astrobe: The 0.5 is probabvly because your origin is at the center of a node. Testus: Not if you farm diamonds at Y < -1200 and also take als the mese you find with you. Testus: Astrobe: Yea, that's what I meant with the knees. Nutty8: Testus I never went to that coordinate on a normal gameplay, but now that you said it, there's my new goal :') Nutty8: in fact, never went to that coordinate at all '=D Astrobe: I'm not sure you get it. The point (0,0,0) is at the center of a node, so if you stand on that node, you'll be O.5 away from the origin, even though your feets are on the block which contains the origin. Testus: lol Minetest is not Minecraft where you find diamonds at 50 or 60 blocks/nodes bellow the surface (at least not in Minetest Game). Did you never get any diamonds or do you play with mods that let you get them on another way? Nutty8: to be honest Nutty8: I think I never got to the diamonds in minetest :') '=D Nutty8: In the past I was struggling just to find lava Nutty8: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19654 Verticen: Sometimes I think that minetest is a bit too big, since you have to go so deep to find stuff Testus: Astrobe: Ohh sorry, I didn't got that until you said it but It's kind of logical as 0 is obviously also the center for the X and Z coordinates. Nutty8: Verticen I agree with you, but it's good to have a big sandbox to play with :') Nutty8: Also Nutty8: Some days ago I was thinking Testus: Nutty8: I was searching lava recently but I didn't find it yet. Finding lava seems to be much harder than finding diamonds as keeps extremely rare, no matter how deep you go. tf2ftw: Hello Astrobe: I made my ores available at all levels, but way more rare. Testus: No Minetest is much too small ... Verticen: I like how minetest is bigger than minecraft, the large scale is cool, but it takes longer to traverse and progress as a result. I'd put ~200 - ~300 as the bottom of the world, but that's just me. Testus: Minecraft is much much bigger than Minecraft. Nutty8: oops Testus: fail :D Nutty8: :') :') :') :') :') :') Testus: Minecraft is much bigger than Minetest ... Verticen: Testus: Nah m8 Verticen: Bigger in terms of popularity maybe. World generation wise, nah Nutty8: Testus About the lava, after the forum post, I found the lava in the worst possible way :') Nutty8: funny day Nutty8: tf2ftw Hello =D oil_boi_: Verticen: It's like how I used to play Minecraft beta 1.3, only I put my own spin on it basically. Here is the main Github https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter Here is the clientside mod https://github.com/oilboi/crafter_client The forum post won't load, here's a few videos: https://youtu.be/w88BgvHJpRY https://youtu.be/LL68MNfdX1Y https://youtu.be/wwLIxopGVIA https://youtu.be/zs3BHRymxlw oil_boi_: I have to make a website using github.io soon though because it's getting pretty out of control trying to show people when they ask about it :T oil_boi_: You can run the main game without the clientside mod but the weather particles won't load also I'm currently in the middle of putting in rain along with transfering the FOV hook to the clientside mod so the server can tell the client when the player is running making the FOV transistion smooth Verticen: oil_boi_ I watched some of your videos, you've added some sweet stuff! I hope you plan to keep working on this, it looks like it could get minetest close to the Minecraft level of polish that it ought to be at. I'll give it a shot when I get time. Noclip: oil_boi_: Shouldn't both features (weather particles and FOV) be possible without cllientside mods if mintest's api would support optional particles and game controlled FOV regulation? oil_boi_: Noclip: I had them clientside, lag causes them to completely bug out. IE you can walk outside of the weather area, FOV will go negative and instantly turn on fully instead of smoothly transitioning. Also weather particles and FOV should be calculated by the client as that's a LOT of load to put onto the server on top of running the normal game. Look at first person shooters, online MMORPGs, etc, the server will tell the oil_boi_: client what is going on, where the objects are, and such. Then the client will show the user the special effects and move objects and players around accordingly oil_boi_: Err, I had them server side, thinking too many steps ahead here :P oil_boi_: Also Verticen thank you! I just wish I could send a clientside mod to the client and have it run as if you installed a clientside mod as the current method that minetest uses oil_boi_: The moment entity rotation becomes available clientside, IE you can keep an entity in a static yaw, pitch, and roll as according to what the server thinks but the client sees something else based on what the mob is doing I will jump for joy oil_boi_: Whoops, literally did the same thing again hahaha Verticen: oil_boi_ yeah, that would be really ideal if you could do that, would definitely make the game more accessable. Verticen: to include it in the content browser that is oil_boi_: I will do that at Alpha 0.5 because I'm not happy with how the code base is yet to release it into the wild like that and have a new user able to download it only to have the game crash on some bug that I haven't found yet after they've seen the game running great on Youtube. Aka the first judgement crash. Also I need to make the mobs auto rotate until they hit their goal rotation based on the direction they're trying to go oil_boi_: into so they don't swivel when they're jumping over a node Noclip: So the serverside mod api actually does support changing the FOV? Didn't know that. Noclip: However your performance argument seems valid. If clientside scripting gets a thing in Minetest your concept should be as easy as every other serverside installed mod right now, but at the moment your setup unfortunately is a bit tricky. oil_boi_: Yes Noclip, it's pretty cool! And I just learned I can't set the FOV clientside yet :( Noclip: Ok, so after leaning that the FOV can be set clientside I now learned that this is wrong :D oil_boi_: Noclip: The server can tell the client what FOV to set, it seems that the client cannot modify it's own FOV while in a server Noclip: Mhh, that should allow creating some really interesting trolling mods ... Noclip: For example a mod which adds a drug that makes your FOV trigger between to states after you've taken it. oil_boi_: Hahaha that's a good idea. EXTREME fov oil_boi_: Dude oil_boi_: https://minecraft.net/en-us/attribution/sound/ oil_boi_: JACKPOT Verticen: Nice find oil! oil_boi_: Verticen: Antvenom called them out https://youtu.be/nDnDbIG6GRg oil_boi_: They hid that for years, it's still not documented in the game itself oil_boi_: I was sitting there and I was like, "Where can I get some cool sounds" and then I remembered that video. Apparently a few weeks later they made that page to show all the sounds they used oil_boi_: It's time to go crazy Noclip: What's the status of clientside scripting developement? Is it something that could be part of the engine soon or might it take a longer time? yrungr: anyone else have a problem with the android app not working with the keyboard? i can't enter username and password. swift110: hey all oil_boi_: Verticen: https://freesound.org/people/C418/downloaded_sounds/ oil_boi_: Oh here's the new tnt sound https://freesound.org/people/alienbomb/sounds/39067/ oil_boi_: Some of the sound Minecraft is using are licensed as non commercial :O oil_boi_: Like this one https://freesound.org/people/acclivity/sounds/13552/ oil_boi_: And the sound of water dripping :O :O https://freesound.org/people/acclivity/sounds/25879/ oil_boi_: Oh I found the original creeper and tnt ignite sound, unedited: https://freesound.org/people/Ned%20Bouhalassa/sounds/8320/ oil_boi_: I was wondering why the sound of igniting TNT changed in Minetest and I guess no one could find the original source :L Noclip: Will Minetest still write to debug.txt if I specify an other logfile with `--logfile`? nephele: Noclip, Clientside mods are already implemented, The big chunk that is missing is a way for servers to send those mods to clients to execute, and an efficient comms channel for them Noclip: It looks like the cloundlands mod isn't compatible with Minetest 5.2: `Unknown node: mcl_core:vine` nephele: Missing nodes is not neccesarily an engine incompatibility, more likely that the mod (or it's dependencies) failed to register it for some reason... you may want to find out where the mcL_core mod is and check why it does not register that node Noclip: The mcl_core mod is not in use as it is only an optional dependency. nephele: You apparently need it nephele: Or used it before nephele: so enable it :/ Noclip: The mod had no official update in the last 1-2 month (contentdb) and it definitely worked before Minetest 5.2 even in Minimal developement test without any other mods. nephele: So... create a new world, and see if it complains then? nephele: If it depends on a node it never defines that sounds like a mod bug to me though nephele: Can't tell you for sure without seeing code though Noclip: This is the file that seems to be responsible: https://github.com/Treer/cloudlands/blob/master/cloudlands.lua Noclip: That's what I meant with "isn't compatible". nephele: Noclip, that makes no sense, the engine does not define any node in that namespace ever nephele: builtin only defines some very narrow nodes, like ignore and air nephele: also, please refrain from using riot's replies, the irc bridge mangles them so badly they are basically unreadable on irc Noclip: Do I understand you right that you did look at the code and couldn't find any issues? nephele: I said your argument doesn't make sense, i don't know yet if the mod has issues, i only skimmed it nephele: you might want to change your minetest settings to error out on deprecated functions though, that should show you quite quickly if this mod depends on functions that are deprecated or removed Noclip: Wait, how can my argument not make sense? I just said the exact same version of this mod worked before Minetest 5.2 but doesn't work in Minetest 5.2. I don't know the reason for that but I know that it keeps crashing. nephele: >That's what I meant with "isn't compatible". nephele: I was reffering to this, that a node isn't available is not an indication of incompatibility by itself nephele: it does not work with the same setup, woudl be Noclip: Isn't that the same? If the mod api from Minetest 5.2 and the mod don't work together (without crashing) isn't that then an incompatability? nephele: Sure, but a node not beeing available isn't an engine incompatibility, the problem is likely earlier in the code nephele: In any case, you can probably contact the author and ask them for an update, 5.2 isn't that old yet anyhow Noclip: If I use the mod with Mineclone 2 it crashes with the following reason: `Unknown node: vines:vine_end` Noclip: The mod is compatible with several different vines-mods and now those optional dependencies have somehow "bugged" themselves into hard dependencies. Noclip: This is the full crash-message while using the mod in Minetest Game without any other mods: https://pastebin.com/raw/vGsmk1Tn nephele: I don't think the problem is deps at all, just my 2 cents Elouin: Are there any plans to fix the current state of the forum anytime soon? Extex: It's being worked on Extex: There are some hardware issues and C55 is trying to fix them Elouin: Extex: thanks for the info, thats good to hear. misspapa1a: water can cause fall damage? Noclip: Yes misspapa1a: oh okay oops Noclip: It's basically very simple: If you hit the ground too hard you get fall damage. Water slows you down but as in real life you can still get damage if the water isn't deep enough. misspapa1a: we're falling 750 meters and hitting the water and dying on impact misspapa1a: at least that what I think happens Noclip: For a 750 meter fall the water might have to be more than 100 meters deep ... Noclip: Is your spawnpoint somewhere high in the air or what's going on? misspapa1a: don't want to use a ladder to get to the mine Noclip: (It could be also several hundred meters.) Noclip: So you prefere dying over climbing the ladder? :joy: Noclip: *😂 misspapa1a: :) calcul0n: you can add a couple ladders to slow your fall calcul0n: like 50 empty blocks, 5 ladder, and so on... Noclip: misspapa1a: My tip: Dig a 2*1 tunnel straight down (as deep as you want) and let water constantly flow down at the first node while the other node has to keep dry. If you then want to get down to the mine you just keep switching between the air and the water spot to alternately speed up and slow down. This way you should get down still very fast but without getting damage. misspapa1a: Noclip: we have that but we want to free-fall all the way to the mine misspapa1a: it's fun to wathc misspapa1a: s/wathc/watch/ Noclip: Use the coordinates to find out (by trying) at which hight you have to switch to the water stream to get down as fast as possible without taking damage. You can slow down faster in water by holding space. misspapa1a: yeah apparently this isn't minecraft and water doesn't slow you down nearly as much lol nephele: yeah, probably make your water deeper... has to be quite deep in minetest compared to mc Noclip: I don't think water slows you down much faster in Minecraft. In Minecraft it's just impossible to get falldamage in water. misspapa1a: oh nephele: in mc you can recover from a long fall with a set ammoutn of water, in mt the ammount of water just keeps increasing nephele: which i guess means there is a missing upper limit on fall speed like you would have irl :) Noclip: In Minecraft one block of water will always compensate all your fall damge no matter from how high you were falling. nephele: it won't stop you from hitting the ground of the water though Noclip: I think the amount of water doesn't matter so less than one block should also be perfectly fine ... Noclip: nephele: Yea, in MC water doesn't really likes physics ... nephele: In reality you would break your legs and die, so take your pick :) misspapa1a: Yeah I prefer to injure myself in video games than real life Noclip: Just tried it: Falling from higher than 1000 blocks and landing on the edge of 2 pixel deep water flow gives you no damage at all in Minecraft. nephele: how would you determine that something is 2px deep Noclip: I looked at it ... very very closely 😆. nephele: If you were at it closelsy, i am going to assume it took more than 2px of your screen ;) Noclip: I didn't mean screen pixels I meant pixels of the default MC texturepack. nephele: so 2/16 blocks high :) Noclip: Exactly Noclip: Or 125 mm Noclip: Mhh you can still die in Minetest from touching the wall while falling so the 5.2 update didn't fix that ☹︎. nephele: you can also die when hitting a chunk boundary before it loaded :P Noclip: Sure? I think that never happend to me. I think I always just stopped falling or slowed down without getting any damage. sfan5: orbea: yea I don't expect a sapling to actually burn for any helpful duration Guest5274: hey Guest5274: Helly people Guest5274: I am going insane Guest5274: I just downloaded minetest, and it looks great, and Iw anna play it with people from a whatsapp group Guest5274: but for the life of me, I can not host a server, and get it to display in the list of servers in the join window or on servers.minetest.net Guest5274: I do tech support for a living Guest5274: I have a 100mbit up and down synchronous business grade internet connection Guest5274: it doesnt work in ubuntu, or windows 10 Guest5274: what am I doing wrong? Guest5274: I just wanna play!! Guest5274: (yes its allowed to the firewall. And dedicated doesnt work either T_T) Guest5274: I can see other servers juuuuust fine, just not my own, and neither can my friends! rubenwardy: You need to portforward UDP on your router to your computer rubenwardy: port 30000 UDP Noclip: Did you double-check the firewalls? rubenwardy: set server_announce = true in the settings (or check public server) Elouin: Guest5274: did you set announce to true, gave it url etc. first few fields for server here: https://wiki.minetest.net/Minetest.conf Elouin: also can people connect directly? Guest5274: announce is true rubenwardy: also see https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server Guest5274: those instructions mostly say "click new server and play" Guest5274: I dont want a dedicated one, well only play when were online anway :D rubenwardy: you need to read " Allowing external players to connect " Guest5274: Okay, I am ashamed to admit my degree is university so theory, and my clients never need that, so how do I portforwards that? Noclip: Can you connect from the same computer that is hosting the server to the server? Guest5274: ah okay Guest5274: I am just running it non-dedicated so yes by defintion UkeFudanshi: Sorry T_T UkeFudanshi: I am the guy trying to setup the server UkeFudanshi: out of sheer desperation I had tried doing it via my unlimited mobile data UkeFudanshi: I switched back to regular internet and it dropped the connection here off course UkeFudanshi: okay, I will try the port forwaring then :d Noclip: Did you try hosting the server via your mobile internet connection? UkeFudanshi: yes UkeFudanshi: didnt make a difference UkeFudanshi: still nothing UkeFudanshi: T_T UkeFudanshi: I feel like a boomer XD Noclip: Yes it does. As far as I know all the incomming internet traffic for mobile phones gets blocked by the ISP so it's completely impossible to host any kind of server over a mobile internet connection. UkeFudanshi: ah UkeFudanshi: well, it ddoesnt work on desktop either UkeFudanshi: now I am trying to get into the rother UkeFudanshi: router* UkeFudanshi: ... did I ever set up a password and username for this bish? Seems so :'( UkeFudanshi: okay I forgot UkeFudanshi: idea UkeFudanshi: isnt there some part that is forwarded by default? nephele: UkeFudanshi: no, there can't be :) UkeFudanshi: ah I see, this is the one thing about IT I DONT know much about UkeFudanshi: I was like "le fuk it I WANNA PLAY lets dump it on a totally unprotected port instead of 30000" but I must be misunderstanding somethign here XD Noclip: First you should make sure that the internet connection that your router is using isn't subject to a ISP firewall, because if that's the there is no way you can host your server. nephele: the idea behind port forwarding is, that if you use ipv4 you sit behind a NAT an "network adress translation" layer, computers outside the NAT see your ip as the one of your router, it forwards packages to your computer and so nephele: a port forward means that an external port is send straight to your computer instead, but for that the router needs to actually know /which/ computer to send it to nephele: The easiest solution around this is to simply use ipv6 if you can, no NAT for ipv6 :) UkeFudanshi: Noclip In that case I will accept the challenge of explaining 5 fujoshis with no computer skills how to installl hamachi over whatsapp :) nephele: Hamachi is pretty shit tbh UkeFudanshi: but it works nephele: Not in my experience :) UkeFudanshi: I dont care if it gives me 69 internet stds nephele: don't you have an ipv6 adress? UkeFudanshi: or has five gazillion security holes UkeFudanshi: it allows me to play games XD nephele: yeah, but there are much better softwares if you just want a vpn, like FreeLAN or wireguard UkeFudanshi: lemme check :D Noclip: VPN as alternative for port forwarding is always a dirty solution but in the case of a ISP firewall there isn't much else you could do. UkeFudanshi: T_T UkeFudanshi: I dont have ipv6 UkeFudanshi: according to test-ipv6 site nephele: Noclip: "ISP firewall"?? UkeFudanshi: well, I KNOW I can use hamchi with people nephele: do you mean carrier grade NAT? UkeFudanshi: so that shoudl work nephele: UkeFudanshi: oof, sometimes you just have to turn it on in your router :D UkeFudanshi: Except, I totally forgot the password and username I set for my router a year ago UkeFudanshi: haha, rip UkeFudanshi: hamachi it is :d nephele: or FreeLAN :P nephele: in any case, have fun with the game hehe :) Noclip: nephele: I mean the case where the ISP just blocks all incomming traffic, no matter what are the technical details and reasons. UkeFudanshi: ooorrrr UkeFudanshi: one of you could make a server for us? T_T UkeFudanshi: All we want is a server ot play on for few hours thats simply the vanilla base game UkeFudanshi: thats literally it XD UkeFudanshi: we can all SEE servers just fine, just not make our own XD Noclip: Deosn't he need a public server for the VPN? Hamachi has one but does FreeLAN also have one? Elouin: nephele: never heard of it, but serverless vpn for gaming sounds pretty nice. :D but not as easy to set up as i can see. Noclip: UkeFudanshi: Are you sure you want to play vanilla Minetest Game? nephele: Noclip: that makes no sense Elouin: it = freelan nephele: how would they block all incoming trafic? UkeFudanshi: why not? :D UkeFudanshi: I never played minecraft before UkeFudanshi: we just wanna build stuff nephele: udp is stateless (normally) so how do you expect to get udp traffic back? UkeFudanshi: XD UkeFudanshi: and chat XD UkeFudanshi: I am new to this game, is there something wrong with the vanille game? XD nephele: Noclip: a VPN does not need a server neccesarily nephele: you only need a VPN server if you need double sided NAT punching nephele: Elouin: if you have an ipv6 adress i would just use that tbh :P nephele: minetest does not require a LAN enviroment at all Elouin: yeah, but old lan games do nephele: UkeFudanshi: Some people dislike it :) Elouin: and i just really dislike hamachi Noclip: UkeFudanshi: It has just a very small amount of features and has never been meant to be a full featured game. It's mostly a modding base. nephele: Elouin: I was going to try and use wireguard to play saints row 2 heh UkeFudanshi: ah okay :D but we can build stuff in it :3 nephele: If you need a lan like enviroment that might also be an option UkeFudanshi: could someone host us a server? :D nephele: does not need you to generate x.509 certs anyway... UkeFudanshi: it doesnt need to be permanent XD UkeFudanshi: we just wanna play for a gew hours XD I have spend 2.5 hours trying to make that happen now XD Elouin: UkeFudanshi: you could just join one of the many empty servers. would be the same as someone here hosting one... UkeFudanshi: true, but dont they have passwords? XD UkeFudanshi: also they all run fivethousand mods, I dont know what those do? XD nephele: oh, it usually means, you should "register" an account Elouin: there are no passwords in the traditional way nephele: not that it is a server password nephele: I would host a server, but my gamemode isn't finished yet haha Elouin: nephele: yeah, but i would not want to host a vpn server for all the people i want to play old games with... and freelan seems to have a serverless option. UkeFudanshi: aaah okay UkeFudanshi: well, theyre setting up hamachi now Noclip: nephele: That's what I meant with "ISP firewall / port blocking": https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-forward-ports-if-my-ISP-blocks-all-inbound-connections nephele: >Most ISPs that block all inbound ports are shadier ones (mostly see these in south asia) where they are actually sharing a public IP with many customers. nephele: I assume this reffers to carrier-grade NAT, not sure what's "shady" about that though... there simply are not enough ipv4 adresses Noclip: It might not be very common but if you have that problem there is nothing you can do about it. Noclip: Elouin: How could you host a vpn server if you're behind a firewall? Elouin: Noclip: open the required port? Astrobe: I've been looking at the "SAO breakage" thing and how MobsRedo was fixed in order to fix my old version. Astrobe: It seems to me that there could be a way to better fix it by making MobRedo queueing removal requests Astrobe: instead of testing everywhere if the object still exists. Astrobe: Or am I missing something ? Noclip: But if you can do that you could just directly open a port for minetest and wouldn't need the vpn. Elouin: yeah, but iwas talking about playing old lan only games with people over the internet. Elouin: like saints row 2 as nephele just wrote Elouin: Noclip: for Minetest i just opened the corresponding port in the servers firewall. Noclip: Oh okay. What's the technical reason for those games to be restriced to a lan network? Elouin: i have no idea. Astrobe: AFAIK thechnically the distinction between LAN and WAN does not really exist. Elouin: those games most of the time only have a server browser and dont allow direct ip based connections. i guess they do some broadcasting stuff or so to check if any fitting server answers... nephele: Elouin: if you are behind a NAT (or a firewall that drops inbound traffic) you can't host the NAT server inside it nephele: but the other end may be able to host it if they don't have a NAT Elouin: nephele: yeah, but who is? nephele: anyone with an ipv6 adress :P Noclip: So for the client and server software the different IP-adress-areas are the only difference between LAN and WAN? Elouin: o.O nephele: Astrobe: there is a destinction, many old games send broadcast packages for local networks to negotiatie lobbies and stuff, that normally doens't pass through the router :) sfan5: you can test if a server is reachable from the outside using !up , IPv6 supported too Elouin: yeah, almost all my servers have ipv6 addresses next to ipv4 and i dont have any problems with inbound traffic over ipv6. that would be stupid if so. nephele: Noclip: mostly it's ip adresses, for ipv6 its a bit different, you can expect almost all ipv6 devices to have a public ipv6 adress, but you can additionally have a local ipv6 adress aswell for routing in a LAN nephele: but most games, afaik, dont take advantage of that UkeFudanshi: we colonized the german server and found a place where we can still build :D UkeFudanshi: were playing now :D UkeFudanshi: later! thanks for the help :) Elouin: UkeFudanshi: 👍 sfan5: Astrobe: the issue was that mobs_redo did not return from on_step, sure you could delay the removal until it was done doing things to a dead object but I consider that behaviour wrong either way Noclip: UkeFudanshi: Which server are you playing on? UkeFudanshi: german vanilla server UkeFudanshi: it was empty sfan5: "did not return from on_step after destroying the object"* UkeFudanshi: two people joint sfan5: !server german vanilla MinetestBot: sfan5: German-Vanilla-server | ronnix.ddns.net:30002 | Clients: 5/64, 0/5 | Version: 5.2.0 / minetest | Ping: 100ms UkeFudanshi: now they tell us where we can still build :D sfan5: hm Astrobe: what do you mean "did not return from on_step"? That is does not exit on_step as soon as it deletes the object? * Noclip: sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/HqgZwxxEQuAtuBVtlHewAuDL > Noclip: (source: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=22359) sfan5: Astrobe: yes Noclip: 3d_armor, travelnet, mobs, bows ... Noclip: I would definitely not consider this as a Vanilla Mintest Game server. nephele: yeah, only minimal allowed :D nephele: git checkout has no mtg ;)) UkeFudanshi: okay UkeFudanshi: stupid question time UkeFudanshi: how to make stufff UkeFudanshi: I am working on a small house UkeFudanshi: I know I can make things in inventory UkeFudanshi: but how does it work? UkeFudanshi: the German doesnt help UkeFudanshi: XD twoelk: what do you want to make? UkeFudanshi: door, windows, glass, bed UkeFudanshi: roof UkeFudanshi: giant wooden d*ck UkeFudanshi: but first a house :D twoelk: for door put 6xplanks in 3 rows of two in the crafting grid UkeFudanshi: okay UkeFudanshi: but UkeFudanshi: how to make planks UkeFudanshi: how does the crafting grid work UkeFudanshi: which button to push? XD twoelk: for furnace put 8 blocks of cobble around empty middle in crafting grid Noclip: Wait, unified_inventory is also on the mod list, so you should be able look up all recipes ingame. UkeFudanshi: I never plaued minecraft either XD twoelk: punch a tree, put wood tree trunk block in crafting grid nephele: UkeFudanshi, just put the items into the grid, and take the item out of the result field UkeFudanshi: okay nephele: wood block to plank is a bit of an easier recipe Elouin: UkeFudanshi: http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Crafting Noclip: UkeFudanshi: Does your inventory look like this?: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory/master/screenshot.png Noclip: (Press "I" to open it.) UkeFudanshi: yes UkeFudanshi: but in german Noclip: If you click on the items (which you can see on the right side of the inventory) the game should automatically show you how you can craft this item and if you also have the resources to do it, it should be able to craft it for you. UkeFudanshi: yes UkeFudanshi: I think I just saw UkeFudanshi: so then, what are good reasources to start with except wood UkeFudanshi: Wood is everywhere, and earth and grass UkeFudanshi: maybe wool? Kill some roaming kebab? twoelk: get wood, make pick, get stone also some sand for baking to glas Noclip: Stone twoelk: also replant trees nearby and punch some grass to find wheat seeds UkeFudanshi: ah baking nice UkeFudanshi: I want to make a glass window UkeFudanshi: do I also need to make an oven first? Noclip: If you want to upgrade from stone tools, steel would be a good choice. twoelk: get wool from sheep or punch junglegrass to find cotton twoelk: bake sand to get glass, use six glass blocks to get window panes UkeFudanshi: fuck UkeFudanshi: it disdonnected me UkeFudanshi: and my friends keep chrasing Noclip: !up ronnix.ddns.net:30002 MinetestBot: ronnix.ddns.net:30002 is up (32ms) (IPv4) UkeFudanshi: yes its up UkeFudanshi: I can reconnect UkeFudanshi: but its unstable T_T Noclip: 👍️ Noclip: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md UkeFudanshi: later~ Well switch to minecraft T_T a friend has a , ... "free" version XD UkeFudanshi: thanks for the help UkeFudanshi: game looks great with a stable server though! Noclip: "free" version doesn't sound legal. Ingar: depends on your definition of legal * twoelk: got some very old "free" versions, somewhere Noclip: 😂 twoelk: I sorta lost contact to mt around 2013 though :D twoelk: argh mc of course rubenwardy: it annoys me how he didn't even allow us to see the logs of the crashing friend Ingar: mc is a two edged swords these days Ingar: with ms at the helm, it's clearly more polished, streamlined and far more stable Ingar: but for me, "real mc" died when bukkit quit twoelk: ooooh, two sides, much advanced it seems nephele: rubenwardy: send logs of a friend? oh boy, that is quite difficult for non-technical people :P, but would have been nice indeed nephele: Ingar: The xbox version has stuff like a character generation and allows you to specify the character height and so, which i think is really neat :3 nephele: i implemented a bit of a random height for joining players in my gamemode, but haven't done anything for the playmodel yet though (still that green alien from builtin...) twoelk: making putting up a server too easy generates many unstable unproffesional servers on bad hardware - you just can't win Ingar: nephele: I used to have teleporteres, machinse, solar panels, magic shit, volcanoes and what not. I'll gladly swith chargen for features Ingar: runecraft <3 Ingar: not sure if there's a similar mod for mt nephele: Hmm, can't say i have teleporters or magic or volcanos, but i have some machines and solar panels atleast Noclip: rubenwardy: Sounds a bit as if you would be addicted to crash reports xD Ingar: nephele: I gave up on modded mc. too much hasstle nephele: Ingar: ah, no i have that in my minetest gamemode :P nephele: not mc nephele: I tried to play modded mc with some people, but after like 40 minutes of loading it ran like shit Ingar: nephele: yeah I have those in mt too ;D nephele: minetest has some api features missing sure, but atleast it isn't as crappy :) nephele: Ingar: but, did you implement them yourself too? ;) twoelk: what api features are you missing? Ingar: nephele: I don't code mt nephele: clientside support for setting camera, clientside support for getting keystrokes, touch input, and mouse input, support for serversend clientside mods, support for clientside lua prediction of block placement, support for a good network api between cs and ss mods nephele: not an authoritive list, but those are the things that annoy me the most nephele: this, coming from someone who used to mod on Garry's mod anyhow :) nephele: Ingar: but i do :D maybe i should code a bit more today Ingar: nephele: I wrote my own game that never got finished ;) Noclip: rubenwardy: Do you want another crash report? I have one. nephele: Also mt is missing support for any kind of lazy loading, late block registering, dynamic textures and so nephele: sending meshes after the game started too :), i would totally make mostly realistic trees with L-tree system if i could send actuall tree meshes nephele: but can't really the way it currently is nephele: twoelk, hope that gives some insight into what is missing, atleast for me :P Noclip: ... clientside support for getting microphone and webcam data ... nephele: Noclip, pfft nephele: What would you need that for? if you want to add voicechat you would be way better off implementing voip in the engine than trying that in lua Noclip: I didn't mean that seriously I just had to think about it while reading "clientside support for getting keystrokes, touch input, and mouse input". Elouin: maybe playing minetest eyetoy style. xD nephele: Noclip, I do need that really, if i want to build a non-blocking gui to peak into chests and stuff twoelk: mmh, nephele has clientside plans it seems nephele: if i open a formspec then the mouse gets locked completely, I could draw on the normal screen but then i have no way to change the gui state based on inputs nephele: twoelk, some things just should be done clientside to be effective Astrobe: That an os.execute("start skype") away. will work for 99% of the people with which you don't want to voice chat. nephele: like, my furnaces and stuff have animated formspecs, which currently means that the server animates all of them all the time by changing their formspec strings... and that gets replicated over the network twoelk: @nephele, but would that be save? nephele: but realistically, you only ever want one formspec to be animated, the one you are looking at at this very moment nephele: I can't use force formspec open either, if i do that i need to keep forcing it to get an animation, and you get a race condition when you close it where the user closes it, and then gets a new force open, after which the server then stops sending them once it acks the close twoelk: I mean should the client really know all things, like what's in closed chests? nephele: clients already know this twoelk: sort of nephele: not sort of, completely nephele: opening a chest reads the formspec client from the meta and renders the chest content, normally at that node nephele: but the client has already recieved the chest content beforehand Noclip: The devs definitely have to make sure that keyboard input can only be captured while the Minetest window is in the focus ... nephele: Noclip, I certainly did not mean a os-api, just one in the event loop while the player is beeing controlled nephele: a naive implementation would maybe allow capturing outside, but that is really not usefull if you want to know mouse location and stuff :) twoelk: yet I think that a clientside diamond detector should not be able to scan other inventories - that opens too many doors to clientside cheating nephele: ... but it already can twoelk: nothing is perfect - and that is one of the many reasons csm development has slowed down nephele: that's not really a problem you can solve easily though... unless you have < 1ms pings : nephele: twoelk: that it could be used for cheating is an inherent propert though nephele: i don't see a problem with this personally, if someoen cheats i can deal with them nephele: that's more of a socital problem and not a technical one imo Noclip: Is there some type of serverside xray protection? In noclip-mode (while beeing inside the rock) I always had the feeling that my viewing range was restricted to around 50 nodes. Is that true? nephele: there is no protection against xraying that i am aware of twoelk: the old trick with using clientside transparent textures underground has been dealt with iirc nephele: how exactly is a server supposed to protect against textures? rubenwardy: it can't rubenwardy: but the clien't won't allow you to use a transparent texture for stone rubenwardy: you can then just hange the client rubenwardy: by recompiling nephele: Is that hardcoded or something? rubenwardy: it raises the barrier rubenwardy: no, it's based on node drawtype nephele: ah, yeah rubenwardy: and there may be a node def property like use_texture_alpha, not sure if it uses that nephele: would make sense, i have had textures that were opaque without that with the "correct" drawtype nephele: by the way... is there a way to propagate sunlight in a way that it illuminates solid blocks? I have a see made of ice with a transparent texture, but since there are no air nodes underneat you can basically look one node deep and that's it nephele: I can make it almost look right if i make the nodes emit light themselves, but that would be awfully presumptious, that the moon is always shining ;) Noclip: But with a hacked client activating debug mode should still be possible, correct? nephele: easily, sure lmat: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/MOB_Framework looks like the best MOB mod for friendly mobiles, right? sfan5: mobf is sorta old lmat: I want sheep. Chicken, Cow, Deepr and several others look great, too. Which mob mod should I go for? lmat: Creatures MOB-Engine is another option with sheep and chicken. lmat: Simple Mobs has sheep https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/Simple_Mobs lmat: (by the way, Creatuser MOB-Engine is https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods/Creatures_MOB-Engine ) sfan5: tried mobs_redo? lmat: I'll create a wiki account and add this https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs#Mobs_Redo_.5B1.49.5D_.5Bmobs.5D to the sheep disambiguation page. lmat: Oh...maybe I can't. rubenwardy: ceatures mob engine, mobf, and simple mobs are all unmaintained and very outdated. Don't use them lmat: mobs redo looks great. lmat: rubenwardy: I should probably add that to the wiki, too! rubenwardy: mobs redo is an adopted version of simple mobs, which is actually maintained rubenwardy: it's terrible, but the best of bad options lmat: xD Astrobe: defering entity removal in MobsRedo seems to work so far, thought it takes a variable time for the mob to vanish. I didn't see a simple way to make the mob invisible. Astrobe: nothing to do with the current talk, btw. lmat: Oh, coincidence? That seems to happen fairly often on IRC (in general). lmat: I was going to export this mod from github, download, and extract into the mods directory. Should I just clone it in the mods directory so that I can get updates with a flick of the wrist? orbea: lmat: i use git subtree to add mods. :P https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/git-subtree lmat: orbea: Oh, not bad. twoelk: keep in mind mobs-redo is a mobless api, you will need to download the mobs of desire in an extra step lmat: Oh wait, I thought you said submodule. reading about subtree... lmat: twoelk: Thank you, I was just trying to figure out how to get the dependency of mob-animal ! twoelk: you may want to study this wiki page to get an overview https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs * lmat: bookmarks git subtree twoelk: it might be a little outdated by now though lmat: got it lmat: This looks promising https://imgur.com/UHCdKvN.png lmat: If I walk a long way away, how can I get back to the spawn point without dying? twoelk: depends on settings :) lmat: I think I have defaults...mostly :-) orbea: lmat: sleep in a bed lmat: orbea: I won't wake up in the bed? orbea: if you sleep in a bed in game (at night) that will be your new spawn twoelk: was the chat command /spawn in mtg yet? lmat: twoelk: /help spawn says command not available. twoelk: :( lmat: orbea: How do I go to that spawn point? Dying will probably get me back, but what else? orbea: you can also set your spawn with static_spawnpoint in minetest.conf orbea: use F5 in game to find the coordinates twoelk: if you are in singleplayer you can turn off damage and hunger Astrobe: Caution with subtree, that tutorial is from 2015, probably from the era when submodule was not part of Git and had more quirks. lmat: Astrobe: I'll use git help subtree; to learn anyway :-) orbea: Astrobe: no, submodule was certainly part of git then (and I dislike submodiules) orbea: the documentation hasn't had much reason to change for subtree as far as I know orbea: submodules probably would work too for this purpose, its a matter of personal preference. Astrobe: What I wanted to point out is that submodule is the most common method. orbea: i also think people would notice submodules more readily because form the perspective of the user subtrees look like any other directory. orbea: but yes, submodules are popular for some reason... Astrobe: Before the integration of submodules in Git, submodule and subtree had dual pros and cons, from what I remember. nephele: submodules allow you to specifiy an exact commit of a dependant project, and allow to check that out easily, it's quite nice for that purpose orbea: nephele: same with subtree, just tested and ths works: git subtree add --prefix mods/technic technic da95be53ec5703e808233d7b45fc42fb500863dd --squash orbea: can also edit the directory manually later and then push your changes back to upstream from the subtree orbea: one downside is that rebasing is much harder oil_boi_: Can any dev tell me where in the source code the double tap jumping is? Can't seem to find it :L oil_boi_: Err, double tap jump to fly, I mean nephele: orbea: havent looked at subtree, but for the outlined purpose submodules work fine, not that i need them muc orbea: rubenwardy: Can you please review this relatively soon whe you have a chance? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8658 It would be nice if this annoying cosmetic issue in craftguide could be fixed. https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide/issues/102 rubenwardy: #8658 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8658 -- Add alignment options to FormSpec labels by v-rob rubenwardy: ah yeah, it already has a single approval adfeno: Hi all, using WorldEdit, how do I know the dimensions, area, or radius of a regionthat is saved in a .WE schematic *before* loading/placing it? BuckarooBanzai: adfeno: use //allocate adfeno: The //allocate inserts the schematics in the region, right? sfan5: allocate doesn't place any nodes MinetestBot: 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Automated build changes (#9619) 1312275e2 https://git.io/Jvp0E (152020-04-09T18:46:06Z) nico52: Hi all, short Q, trying to setup a server for the kids playing minecraft, can they connect their minecraft clients to a minetest server ? misspapaya: nico52: no misspapaya: they have to play minetest to use a minetest server nico52: @mis nico52: misspapaya Thanks misspapaya: nico52: there's plenty of minecraft server programs you can use to host minecraft nico52: yes, just stumbled across minetest as an ubuntu apt-get package, thought it might work sfan5: there are some open-source implementation of minecraft servers, minetest isn't one of them Verticen: nico52: yeah, minetest is completely different from minecraft, however I think that there is an official Minecraft launcher snap package in the ubuntu repos nico52: Thanks all substack: do i need to do something special to get mobs and rats in the game? i haven't been able to figure out how to get them to spawn substack: i remember it had these when i played a long time ago on a different computer DS-minetest: mobs were removed sfan5: in roughly 2013 to be exact sfan5: hm that doesn't make any sense DS-minetest: recently substack: i have the minetest-mod-mobs-redo module installed (from debian bullseye) but it doesn't seem to do anything substack: including when i enable that module in the ui sfan5: the few mods packaged in debian are quite outdated sfan5: I can recommend install this mod: sfan5: !mod mobs_redo MinetestBot: sfan5: Mobs Redo [mobs] by TenPlus1 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9917 - https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/mobs_redo substack: thnx DS-minetest: oh, nice, MinetestBot shows a link to the git repo sfan5: it does if it has that info yes Extex: How do I get the position of an offline player? sfan5: not possible I believe Extex: Ah.. adfeno: Hi there, how to tell the server that all the players (including those which already are online, offline, and those which already have an account) that they should be forced to respawn at a new location? adfeno: Is there a mod or setting to do that? adfeno: The respawn should be done as soon as the player joins the server or the admin does the command. twoelk: sounds like you might want to install the classroom mod adfeno: !mod classroom MinetestBot: adfeno: Classroom [classroom] by rubenwardy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=23715 - https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/classroom adfeno: twoelk: Does it work for offline playesr which are already registered? twoelk: now that would be something - a mod that forces offline players to the game by a chat command :D adfeno: Not exactly to be ingame adfeno: But to set their spawn point for the player when the command is called, so that the next time the player joins he is teleported to the spawn. adfeno: For all players, I mean. twoelk: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/classroom might be usefull rubenwardy: note that the mod is WIP. A more stable mod would be edutest, I don't personally like its GUI or design rubenwardy: !mod edutest MinetestBot: rubenwardy: EDUtest [edutest] by zeuner - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18988 - https://github.com/zeuner/edutest-chatcommands adfeno: I wonder if I could accomplish this instead by manipulating the SQLite table. twoelk: I would rather not manipulate the database but suggest some "on join" triggered teleporting oil_boi_: Extex: If you can get the meta of an offline player you can store their offline position when they leave into their meta using minetest.pos_to_string and inverse to get it is minetest.string_to_pos oil_boi_: Also sfan5, I remember yesterday you said doubletap sprint wasn't possible in the engine so I made it possible clientside sfan5: ah that's great oil_boi_: Also: Bunnyhopping twoelk: sounds like easter is near oil_boi_: Hahaha, maybe I'll make it so on easter the players drop eggs when they bunnyhop twoelk: should be painted eggs though twoelk: I always thought games missed movements expressing joy such as skipping adfeno: twoelk, oil_boi_: OK, thanks for the information, I'll make mod to aid my mate who needs this function. twoelk: sigh, forum timed out while I was searching for page that might add info - too late anyway orbea: spent a lot of effort getting mg_villages to not crash and https://i.imgur.com/falnlYO.png *sigh* misspapaya: sungazing misspapaya: B) Extex: !mod helicopter MinetestBot: Extex: Simple helicopter [helicopter] by Pavel_S - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6183 Extex: Aaaaarrrrrgggghgh DS-minetest: here: https://github.com/Desour/helicopter :3 Nutty8: Hello! Nutty8: I have something to ask Nutty8: Do someone here plays Minetest Game with the mod "Underground Challenge" [underch] made by Hume2? Nutty8: I'm trying to test it, but I end up getting this error saying that "Unknown node: stairs:stair_cobble" Nutty8: I checked minetest_game files, everything seems to be alright Nutty8: but without the mod enabled, the node seems do be registered Nutty8: Also, do you guys also spawn inside nodes sometimes? Nutty8: The spawnpoint seems to be always 0, 0, 0 Nutty8: But sometimes the mapgen takes that coordinates to place, you know, mountains, trees, etcetera and you end up stuck '=D tf2ftw: Hi tf2ftw: my admin user doesn't have settime privs. How can I give that? I set "Name of player when connecting are admins" tf2ftw: Can anyone tell me what mods are being used here? tf2ftw: https://imgur.com/a/HPClDCK Verticen: tf2ftw: For starters there are a number of hunger bar mods that are avalible in the content browser, but I couldn't tell you for the player character in the inventory misspapaya: ok silly question misspapaya: minetest aarch64 is broken, right? not just my install misspapaya: + sfan5: there are some known issues with it yes sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9107 misspapaya: I was actually looking at this misspapaya: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9367 misspapaya: sounds like a library bug more than a game bug tho :'( sfan5: well that one does have a fix, just compile with luajit disabled misspapaya: Do you think I'll see a big performance hit if I run a server with mods? sfan5: that depends on the mods, but on average yes misspapaya: ok I'll try thanks Nyarg: Hi all ! Is it possible to reduce size of node and set it as default size ? Nyarg: Right now node seems very big for good experience. NetherEran: I'm not aware of a way to do this without engine changes, what you can do is increase the player's eye height DS-minetest: increasing eye height is possible (maybe see mtg's player_api mod) Nyarg: thx ) sfan5: misspapaya: great news: the luajit problem was reasonably easy to fix https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9614 lmat: Just found this in my log: "Server: Failed to emerge player "lmat" (player allocated to an another client)" I don't know what it means, but the grammar has my crying. lmat: sfan5: U da man! Why did you change line 664? sfan5: CheckCXXCompilerFlag is unused and CheckCSourceCompiles is new because the code needs it lmat: sweet. lmat: sfan5: So you're changing a call to lua_pushlightuserdata to a call to lua_newuserdata? Does "lightuserdata" mean light as in photons? (not lite as in small, right?) and does "newuserdata" also create light data? sfan5: https://pgl.yoyo.org/luai/i/lua_pushlightuserdata <-> https://pgl.yoyo.org/luai/i/lua_newuserdata Wuzzy: is it bad when one of my abm takes 3ms to run? lmat: sfan5: No test? sfan5: test for what? lmat: sfan5: To make sure it works on the various architectures. I'm not sure what the test would look like... you said there's a 47-bit limit. Presumably that limit was being violated, so now you allocate a "full user data" (rather than "light user data") so that the limit won't be felt? sfan5: correct lmat: stiell: Is it possible to test this? swedneck: how long does it usually take for the latest version to be available on flatpak? lmat: swedneck: I heard something about that recently...I think it's fairly behind at the moment: several months? let me look it up. lmat: "< sfan5> who is responsible for https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.minetest.Minetest and why is it still at 5.1.0?" lmat: "< est31> https://github.com/flathub/net.minetest.Minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed" lmat: "< est31> apparently Calinou made the last update" lmat: swedneck: does that help? lmat: swedneck: (oh, the answer to the question "who is responsible?" is: "< est31> sfan5: flatpak upstream developers") swedneck: i'll poke calinou then lmat: swedneck: I think you already have (and maybe I have, too) at least on IRC. sfan5: lmat: the platforms that have the 47-bit limit are listed in LuaJIT's docs, there is no generic way to test if the limit applies at build or run time swedneck: oh right, irc does that * swedneck: is blissfully unaware in matrix land swedneck: i ask because there are no binaries available for 5.2.0 on fedora and compiling is somewhat of a task regardless of the project lmat: swedneck: I guess they're aware of it as of two days ago? https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/minetest swedneck: you mean the log at the bottom? lmat: swedneck: yeah: "2 days ago A new version of "minetest" has been detected: "5.2.0" newer than "5.1.1", packaged as "minetest"" swedneck: just looks like automated messages to me, but hopefully that also means someone was pinged about the release lmat: swedneck: That's my hope! lmat: sfan5: I'm thinking a test like unsigned value = 0xffffff; /* using 48 bits. */ set_value_somewhere(value); unsigned retrieved = get_value_from_somewhere(); assert(retrieved == 0xffffff); ? So in the normal case, this will use lightdata under the hoods, and will use full user data when necessary to return the correct value? lmat: (Those unsigneds should be const and the comparison at the end should be retrieved == value.) sfan5: it's not that easy, creating a "malformed" light userdata will panic the lua vm sfan5: besides the second part of the fix happens inside cmake by setting the build flags, so runtime detection isn't enough anyway ols_: testing ols_: SET default_nick = BigCaballito ols_: f*k me ols_: sorry, new irc client lmat: ols_: Welcome to irssi ^_^ lmat: ols_: /win 1 before doing that sort of thing ;-) ols_: lmat: does /msg work in irssi? lmat: /msg nickserv identify gotSomeMinesToTEST lmat: oops lmat: ols_: yes. That sends the message. If you want to open a new window for chatting, use /query instead of /msg. hanetzer: oil_boi_: weechat breh :) oil_boi_: hanetzer: weechat? hanetzer: oil_boi_: its like irssi but better (imho) hanetzer: like, you know the irssi nicklist plugin? hanetzer: weechat can do that and it doesn't require use of gnu screen for it. oil_boi_: Oooh, yeah I tried weechat but it acts really weird on windows lmat: Never used an irssi plugin. Then again, I've only been using it for like 12 years; maybe I'll get round to it some day ^_^ hanetzer: oof, winders :P lmat: :'( winders oil_boi_: Wuzzy: Thanks, I was using old hacks to do that and I didn't realize you could do that now! Wuzzy: i think some of the settings dont need to be set at all Wuzzy: why enable_minimap? i think this does not do anything Wuzzy: enable_minimap is a client-side setting, it is equavalient to pressing the minimap key Wuzzy: so it should not be set by the game at all oil_boi_: It is disabled by default, I'm going to try to add a client side aspect of it Wuzzy: well the minimap is not disabled by default Wuzzy: just not displayed by default Wuzzy: to disable the minimap, you can use player:hud_set_flags oil_boi_: How to show the minimap by default then? Wuzzy: well, you dont Wuzzy: the thing is, when this is a server, the clients wont receive the enable_minimap setting Wuzzy: the player has to manually press the minimap key oil_boi_: Oooh, so I can just do it in the client side modding aspect I'm creating, nice. I want to move the particles to the client so the client can decode where to add particle spawners for weather instead of the server having to calculate each player's yaw and show particles accordingly. Basically get the mod channel call to tell the client which weather it is, then have the client choose whether or not it wants to show particles oil_boi_: or what amount of particles it can instead of drawing them all around the player's camera and halfing or quartering fps MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix crash on TNT explosions if tnt is disabled 13c1f4172 https://git.io/Jvxw8 (152020-04-08T15:24:10Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix creative category sorting in certain cases 13545ec07 https://git.io/Jvxw2 (152020-04-08T15:25:09Z) lmat: sfan5: "panic the lua vm" Okay, that makes sense; just pressing for perfection from my standpoint of ignorance! lmat: oil_boi_: Oh yes, client-side for sure. lmat: there's a minimap key * lmat: reads the wiki lmat: How do I change the zoom on the minimap? I see that if I F9 over and over, it zooms in then disappears. Also shift+F9 does not change it to a rectangular minimap. I would like to zoom out more than 1x (.5x?). Dargod: Hello. I have a problem announcing my server on a public tracker http://servers.minetest.net/ Dargod: For some reason, my server has ceased to be advertised on it, although the settings of the server itself have not changed lmat: Hey, the fora seem to be up and strong today! \o/ DS-minetest: s/today/at the very moment/ lmat: DS-minetest: oh :( DS-minetest: lmat: I think, there aren't more zoom levels for minimap lmat: DS-minetest: okay, thanks! BigCaballito: test BigCaballito: Hey it works lmat: BigCaballito: Welcome! Are you identified with nickserv? Noclip: @Imat: You might be albe to add more zoom stages to the minimap by creating your own hacked client if you really want that. oil_boi_: The Gen7 terrain is sooo cool https://i.imgur.com/oquU4N7.png :D lmat: oil_boi_: gotta go get all that copper lmat: Noclip: Wow, that might be just above my pay grade ^_^ oil_boi_: All the copper! lmat: oil_boi_: Did you adjust the copper spawn rate? That looks like a lot... Noclip: Is that MTG copper or MineClone 2 iron? sfan5: looks a lot like the minecraft iron texture oil_boi_: It's Mineclone unnofficial official textures Noclip: If you have Minecraft you can use wuzzy's texturepack converter to get the real MC textures. Wuzzy: Gen7? Noclip: Same for me. Wuzzy: mapgens v5, v6 and v7 shouldn't be viewed as newer "versions" of the mapgens. they're different mapgens. Wuzzy: the "v" is only for purely historical reasons Noclip: I assume he means world-gen v7. Wuzzy: yeah but "generation" implies that v5 and v6 are legacy mapgens that will never ever be updated anymore (which is false) Wuzzy: ok its kinda true for v6 but definitely not v5 Wuzzy: but even v6 gets fixes, when needed Wuzzy: really, v5, v6 and v7 ought to be renamed. the "v" realls is misleading because it makes people think ot "version" Wuzzy: any idea for better name? 🙂 Noclip: Maybe he said "Gen" in the means of "Generator" and not "Generation". Wuzzy: we will never know Noclip: Wouldn't that be a problem for compatability? oil_boi_: Protocol, revision, type, algorithm, configuration, that's all I got lmat: Wuzzy: Can you think of any way to describe v5, v6, v7? DS-minetest: v=voxelinator Wuzzy: lol DS-minetest: maybe change the numbers to years, like v2018 Wuzzy: v5 is the craziest mapgen of the three, and technically also the oldest (if you ignore biome api support) Wuzzy: the terrain can be quite exteme, and floating islands or insane overhangs are common lmat: Wuzzy: so v5 should be called "crazy" or "crazy map generator" or something. Next? Wuzzy: meh * lmat: thinks that his world map was generated with v5... Wuzzy: v6 is actually the oldest mapgen, its a direct continuation of historical version 6 mapgen. its the only mapgen without biome support Wuzzy: the mapgen is rather flat, and is based on 2d noise only Wuzzy: all biomes are hardcodd Wuzzy: hardcoded* DS-minetest: rename them to "crazy", "nice" and "beautiful" oil_boi_: Version: Alpha, beta, current? DS-minetest: and new ones like "also nice" Wuzzy: nooooooo oil_boi_: hahaha Wuzzy: Alpha beta current implies superiotiy Wuzzy: also implies contiuity Wuzzy: which is otally false Markow: I'm still haveing an ongoing issue ever since compiling MT from source for Linux. I'm able to join servers on the public list, play Minetest itself, but I cannot host my own local MT server. DS-minetest: following the goal "Not taking anything seriously" Wuzzy: those 3 are very different mapgens Markow: Is there something in the compilation process I could have missed which is preventing me from hosting a local server? DS-minetest: or maybe "Hans", "Peter" and "Gerthilde" Calinou: did you try "bin/minetest --server" Noclip: @DS-minetest: years instead of numbers doesn't sound like a better name. Calinou: or "bin/minetestserver" Markow: Calinou: yes Noclip: "legacy" for v6 as it doesn't support Biom-API? Wuzzy: v7 is the newest of the 3. the terrain scale is much larger but also smoother. probably the most notable feature of v7 are the giant river channels that carvethrough the terrain Markow: I tried hosting directlly from the GUI, not working Calinou: what happens when you try to start a server? Calinou: try it from the command line as well Markow: Listening on 0.0.0.0:30000 Wuzzy: I wouldn't go so far to call v6 "legacy" by name. this has the danger to give paramat an excuse to nuke it completely ... haha Calinou: try connecting to 127.0.0.1, 0.0.0.0 may not always work Markow: I can connect on my own machine, but not on the other computer connected to a switch * DS-minetest: likes v6 Wuzzy: there are game that actually embrace v6, so it shouldnt be removed or implied that its legacy Markow: Calinou: I tried that, also used the IP of my NIC connected to the switch Wuzzy: but its true, v6 is technically behind the other mapgens because of no biome api support DS-minetest: one can't simply remove a mapgen, old mods will still need to use it Wuzzy: actually, paramat has been planning to adda "v6, but with biome API support" for a long time DS-minetest: s/mods/worlds/ Markow: Calinou: I'm running MT from my source directory (user/minetest/bin) Wuzzy: v6 also will never have any floating island weirdness, because its 2d noise Markow: I gave a friend my entire compilation w/ directories and all files to test, he's having the same problem: Unable to host local server. Markow: There must be something missing in the compilation for hosting Wuzzy: I think the mapgen names should keep the numbers 5, 6, 7, just the prefix should be changed Markow: Everything else works Wuzzy: otherwise they wont be recognizable anymore. Wuzzy: maybe just MG5, MG6 and MG7? DS-minetest: numbers will keep them sortable Markow: I also have both 'ipv6' parameters set to 'false' in my minetest.conf file Noclip: Mhh, that's interesting ... xD Calinou: the client can always host a server, even if you build with -DBUILD_SERVER=0 Markow: Calinou: I built in two ways, with the server bin, and without it DS-minetest: yeah, human names for mapgens is probably the best idea (but maybe cooler names heh) Markow: I test both ways to host a local server 1- gui , 2-server bin, none work Markow: I even flushed my Iptables rules Markow: Nothing is being blocked in the firewall Markow: Here is my setup: Host computer connected to a switch and the client computer is also connecte to the switch Wuzzy: I once proposed "Bloblands" for v5, "Simplelands" (or something like that) for v6 and "Ridgelands" for v7 Wuzzy: Bloblands because v5 often renerates large floating "blobs" Wuzzy: "Simplelands" because v6 is simple DS-minetest: maybe sort-of historical names like "Maria", "Caesar", "Stalin" Wuzzy: "Ridgelands" because of the huge rivers (ridges) in v7 Wuzzy: loooooooooool Wuzzy: celeron55, celeron66, celeron77 Markow: And yet, I'm able to connect on servers on the public list and play MT DS-minetest: nah, intel might already use that names Markow: But I cannot play my own MT world via lan Noclip: I've already wasted many hours of my life, because I forgot about my firewall ... Markow: Noclip: ? Markow: I'm sure the fw is not blocking anything Markow: If anyone would like my compilation in a tarzip file, I'd be glad to share it if you wish to test it for yourself Markow: One friend already did and confirmed he was unable to host any LAN game sfan5: Linux distro? does minetestserver show up in "netstat -ltpn"? Markow: sfan5: Let me check, I'll run the server right now again and see the output... Noclip: I also had something with "Blob" in mind, that describes it pretty much perfectly. Markow: sfan5: My distro (SUSE) doesn't have netstat sfan5: try "ss -tln" Markow: Yes, ss -au shows: Markow: UNCONN 0 0 0.0.0.0:30000 0.0.0.0:* sfan5: uh yeah I meant "ss -uln" Markow: That's on the host computer Noclip: Perfect for a description of the look of those map's but it doesn't describe the missing Biom-API. (That's why I said "lagacy".) Could we somehow mix those names or find something else which describes both points? sfan5: do you happen to have tcpdump installed? Markow: yes Markow: ss -uln shows: Markow: UNCONN 0 0 0.0.0.0:30000 0.0.0.0:* sfan5: run tcpdump -nn -p 'udp and port 30000' and try to connect from another computer Markow: ok Markow: let me turn the other one on... tf2ftw: howcome my admin user can tf2ftw: can't adjust the time? sfan5: you can easily fix that by /grantme settime Noclip: Markow: Did you try it with the host and the client on the same computer? Markow: yes tf2ftw: sfan5, cool thank. Interesting that the admin user doesn't have "god" out of the box rubenwardy: it did used to Markow: listening on enp3s0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 262144 bytes tf2ftw: i thought so. rubenwardy: people complained tf2ftw: really? hmm ok sfan5: Markow: you should see something when you attempt to connect from somewhere else, please pastebin the lines you see sfan5: (more than just the "listening on ..." I mean) Markow: sfan, what IP address should I use, the one from my NIC connected to the switch from my host computer, or 127.0.0.1 or 0.0.0.0 ? Markow: Minetest up on the other computer now sfan5: NIC IP Markow: ok moment.. Markow: oh yeah, lots of output. let me pastebin it Noclip: tf2ftw: Isn't having the "privs" priv already like beeing god? Markow: But on the client computer, 'connection timed out' tf2ftw: Noclip, sure but why add another step? Markow: https://pastebin.com/raw/ajKpSNpP Markow: the ip on my host compute to the switch is: 172.16.0.1 and from the client to the switch is: 172.16.0.2 Markow: So why the connection time out, I'm puzzled Markow: There's no more output from what I showed you Markow: So the client is reponding it seems Markow: but no connection sfan5: that network conversation looks very one-sided sfan5: so sounds like minetest is not receiving anything at all Markow: It's all from client to host Noclip: tf2ftw: I don't like the idea of several irrevokable privileges. Admins and "singleplayer" should only have "privs" as irrevokable privilege and the other privileges should only be default privileges. Then a new command like "resetprivs " might be usefull, too. Markow: So fw isn't the issue (I pretty sure) Markow: *I'm Markow: Could I have missed something in the compilation? It had no errors and everything works fine (except hosting on LAN) sfan5: shouldn't be tf2ftw: Noclip, I lean more toward a admin=god and "manager"=custom elevated privs Markow: So host isn't responding at all, correct? sfan5: try running the server with --trace and redirecting the log output to a file (2>&1 | tee logfile.txt) Markow: Which explains the "Connection time out" on the client side sfan5: then try connecting again and pastebin the log please Markow: Ok ... Markow: I must be doing this incorrectly, I'm trying: tcpdump -nn -p --trace 'udp and port 30000' 2>&1 | tee logfile.txt sfan5: I meant minetestserver Markow: ok, I was running the host server from the GUI Markow: I'll use the minetestserver bin then? sfan5: yes oil_boi_: Clientside modding: minetest.get_node_light(pos, 0.5) is crashing the game :L sfan5: hm I was sure I tested those at the time sfan5: file a bug Noclip: tf2ftw: The problem I see is that as Admin you're not even able to remove yourself some privs which is a completely unnecessary restrection for the Admin player. This can for example exclude the admin-account from participation in a survival project as it has irrevokable privs that might be considered as cheating. If you then also host a server from within your client you are automatically the Admin so would open a second Noclip: client to play as non-admin. Markow: sfan5: Do you want the file, or copy/paste into pastebin? sfan5: latter Markow: Ok! Markow: sfan5: Here you go, https://pastebin.com/raw/uMbP0WLN sfan5: thanks Markow: Yw! Markow: When I tried to connect from the client on the other computer, I saw no additional output sfan5: right that means minetest did not receive a single packet at all Markow: wow Markow: And yet tcpdump on the host computer showed the client trying to connect sfan5: so either the low-level receiving code in MT is broken OR something "between" tcpdump and Minetest dropped the packet (notably: iptables) Markow: Should I flush the rules and try again? tf2ftw: Noclip, I see your point about hosting from the client. I've been thinking about it from a dedicated server point of view. Is it possible to set more than 1 user priv at a time? Markow: It's always the same result though: Connection timed out sfan5: ..and set the default rule to ACCEPT, yes give that a try Markow: Ok... Markow: Ok, all on accept, will now execute server again Markow: iptables -nvL Markow: Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT 4 packets, 618 bytes) Markow: pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination Markow: Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT 2 packets, 128 bytes) Markow: pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination Markow: Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 3 packets, 156 bytes) Markow: pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination misspapaya: sfan5: thanks for fixing the lua bug. I'll be testing when this build is done. I still want to say it's a bug in lua for putting non-pointer data into a pointer type Markow: Oh man Markow: So it was my FW ??? Markow: Can't be sfan5: yep Markow: Unbelievable Markow: It works Markow: What FW rule do you suggest I add? Markow: Is it blocking the port, or UDP ? Markow: I guess I owe both you and Noclip an apology Markow: And many thanks for your help, wow Markow: and patience sfan5: not sure if SUSE has its own firewall configuration Noclip: tf2ftw: With the concept of default (but revokable) privs you could still give Admins simply all privs at the beginning while also giving them the posibility to manually revoke the privs they don't want. So you wouldn't lose anything in any way but get much more flexibility. I don't know if "/grant" and "/revoke" accept a list of users as parameters but you could simply try it out. Markow: No, I have my own custom rules sfan5: but for iptables I'd use iptables -A INPUT -p udp -m udp --dport 30000 -j ACCEPT Markow: I'll try that! Thank you so much sfan5 and Noclip, you guys are amazing! sfan5: that suffices for MT to wrok (assuming you don't also firewall outgoing packets) Markow: I'll let you know if it works Markow: I'm not going anywhere ;) Noclip: When I was talking about my "firewall-problems" I didn't mean that your firewall is also wrongly configured but turns out I'm not the only person having problems with managing firewalls xD Markow: Noclip: Lol. The reason why I was so sure is because I did test it out with flushed rules, and it still didn't work. I don't know why. Markow: And now that we walked through, it worked Markow: One of many mysteries of life Markow: lol Noclip: Yea, firewalls really do have the potential to make life to a mystery ... Markow: I'll have to make a monetary donation to you guys at Minetest, really fabulous (the game and support/help) Markow: Btw, is there a Discord server for MT yet? Markow: I mean, an official one? rubenwardy: no, there's an unofficial one that is popular though NetherEran: no official one * Markow: going through his original FW rules to see where the issue is Krock: IRC > Discord Krock: may let the discussions begin Noclip: Normally my problem isn't that I misconfigure my firewall, I just forget that I have a firewall and then think the programm I'm testing out doesn't work. As the result I spent hours searching the for the error in the programm (just as you did) before something in my brain silently says "firewall" ... * DS-minetest: doesn't like the the ">" looks like an arrow rubenwardy: the discord is also hosting a modding competition currently - https://content.minetest.net/packages/?tag=combat_mod_jam Markow: I'm embarrassed to say, I spent weeks Markow: Very embarrassing Markow: I was pulling hair out (which I don't have) Markow: I was already convinced something went wrong with my compilation Noclip: Then DS-minetest has to convince most people on earth to change the mathematical convention of the ">" symbole xD Markow: Thanks rubenwardy Markow: I also like IRC a lot, however, if there were a server on Discord, I would join that as well Markow: It's like openSUSE, I'm on their IRC channels and Discord server DS-minetest: use > instead of := hehe rubenwardy: the unofficial discord has 840 members rubenwardy: 255 currently online rubenwardy: not that any of those are active rubenwardy: +m Noclip: Uhh, that's a lot! DS-minetest: #minetest-hub has 3 DS-minetest: one bot, one afk, other me Noclip: Sounds like #minetest-hub is trying to keep up with the corona-rules also in the online world. Krock: Markow: are you the bald guy? Markow: Krock: Where at? I mean, I don't have much hair, lol Krock: because >which I don't have) Markow: Yes, mostly bald now Markow: Now there is a rule of thumb to follow carefully, a lesson learned for myself: When in doubt, check your firewall, carefully Krock: ok, in this case I'd recommend to pause IT in general to let them re-grow before you can pull them again Markow: lol DS-minetest: I hope the distance between you and your screen is at least 75cm MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Overall improvements to log messages (#9598) 13de73f98 https://git.io/JvxXY (152020-04-08T18:13:23Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Miscellaneous networking improvements (#9611) 133494475 https://git.io/JvxXO (152020-04-08T18:12:58Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Work around LuaJIT issues on aarch64 (#9614) 13659245a https://git.io/JvxXG (152020-04-08T18:14:08Z) Noclip: Looks like I always had luck with the few hours I spent. Markow: Noclip: Hours would have been nice in my case Noclip: Are you using "ufw" for managing your firewall? misspapaya: aww man I got OOM killed on my build Markow: Nope, I set my rules raw on a text editor, a bash script Markow: I have systemd invoke it Markow: On boot that is Krock: Noclip: well "ufw" would ease it a lot rubenwardy: I use ufw and laugh in the face of the (raw) iptables zealots rubenwardy: `ufw allow http` ha! Markow: sfan5: The rule you provided did the trick, thank you again Markow: I inserted that into my fw rules * Markow: sighs relief Markow: Can't believe this finally works Markow: The host really takes a load off the client computer (being a laptop) Markow: In MT that is Noclip: Definitely! Markow: Now I guess I'll compile 5.3 dev Markow: I was using my older 5.2 dev, but now I think 5.2 is stable Markow: If we didn't have any social distancing here, I would invited my neighbors, bunch of teenagers, to bring over their laptops and play on my LAN MT server, lol Markow: The switch has room for 6 more players Markow: It's an older switch, but still pretty good misspapaya: Markow: really long ethernet cables? Markow: About 2 meters each Krock: enough for social distancing Markow: I'm on one large table here Markow: Problem is sneezing in one room, and distance indoors wouldn't help Markow: Concealed cubicles would be nice ;) Markow: I'm grateful for an Archlinux contributor who posted an awesome 5.6 patch for Nvidia driver 340.108. I applied it to the blob. Now I'm able to use kernel 5.6. He named his patch, "Unf*ck-5.6". Markow: Usually a developer on Ubuntu launchpad site has the patch for that driver first, but not this time around. Markow: I'm dying to test out exfat on 5.7 once the merge window is done MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orbea -> 03minetest/minetest_game: player_api: Remove local variable (#2640) 13695f98f https://git.io/Jvx1u (152020-04-08T18:40:19Z) Markow: You know what I find most annoying on some of the public MT servers? Griefers who play on servers that don't have area protection. Markow: Why do they enjoy griefing, who knows. Extex: Yeh like anarchy servers? DS-minetest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRubE_ZrSEw&t=2601 Extex: And the (unprotected) spawn point is like a crater hole Markow: The one I joined is a vanilla creative server. Some people join and spread lava and water everywhere, and destroy any new structure. Markow: The admin is never there oil_boi_: Which sky setting removes? https://i.imgur.com/pHnJLex.png I've tried them all and nothing seems to change :L Testus: Do you mean the snow? oil_boi_: Err Testus the orange horizon Testus: Looks like the sun is going up or down right now. What's your "time_speed"? oil_boi_: 72 current time is 16:54 Testus: So the time keeps changing? Then the horizon should also change it's color over time. misspapaya: dumb question: how do I set up mods on a multiplayer server? sfan5: extract them as you would normally, shut down the server, open world.mt in a text editor and enable the ones you want by changing the respective entries to "true" misspapaya: cool thanks Markow: misspapaya: Starting a new public server? misspapaya: I was gonna do private but I could do public if there's a way to set a low user cap Markow: I think in the minetest.conf file you can set any player limit you want Noclip: test * DS-minetest: just forgot to add a ; at the end of a header file. it's incredible how many error messages such a small thing can cause Noclip: Markow: I highly recommend you to use ufw: The commands for opening new ports are extremely simple and normally always work without any problems and you don't need systemd and scripts, ufw just saves everything automatically. Noclip: If you now also mess around with your router firewall a bit your server could be online in a few minutes. (... or a few weeks ...) Markow: Noclip: The reason why use Iptables manually is to improve on using the syntax and methods. Ufw sounds great though. Markow: It's like I always compile my own custom kernels as well, never using the packaged kernels from SUSE. Noclip: (I've sent those two messages above already a hour ago but the matrix <-> irc bridge didn't pass them on to irc, so I had to resend them now.) Markow: I'd like to learn more Blender, that's on my bucket list. Markow: Such a lag? misspapaya: Markow: I made a server Markow: misspapaya: Cool! Is it creative? Noclip: Then you should really dive a bit deeper into iptables and try to understand it better, otherwise you might end up spending many more days or weeks with those fw problems. Markow: Noclip: I was actually pretty good at Iptables several months ago when after that I didn't touch it for a while, that's when I got a bit rusty. misspapaya: Markow: no. I don't see the benefit of creative. Noclip: (You should at least know how to successfully open ports ...) misspapaya: I don't see my server on the list tho. I think I messed something up Noclip: (Not saying that this is easy ... I only know how to do it with ufw xD) Markow: Noclip: When away from using it for a while, not a good thing. I was doing C++ much too long and spending no time with Iptables. Markow: Only a few weeks ago when I decided it might be nice to start up a MT LAN did I dive into Iptables once again. Markow: It's good to maintain practice on it. Noclip: Strangely the bridge keept sending messages from irc to matrix the whole time, just the other way around didn't work for at least half an hour. Markow: misspapaya: Did you enable the 'announce' option? misspapaya: Markow: yeah Markow: hmm... misspapaya: I'm wondering if my ISP is filtering me from opening ports Noclip: But If you constantly have to learn Iptables and spend time on it just to keep able to use it, ufw might really be the better choice. sfan5: you can also use !up here to test the connection misspapaya: !up 72.220.71.78 30000 MinetestBot: 72.220.71.78:30000 seems to be down Noclip: But the announce-message should be outgoing not incoming. misspapaya: !up 72.220.71.78 443 MinetestBot: 72.220.71.78:443 seems to be down misspapaya: !up 72.220.71.78 1337 MinetestBot: 72.220.71.78:1337 seems to be down misspapaya: yeah I'm not seeing any of my forwarded ports Markow: misspapaya: Did you enable port forwarding? Markow: Are you on Linux? sfan5: misspapaya: the bot specifically tests minetest servers so it won't work on e.g. http(s) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Travis: Build clang jobs with LuaJIT enabled for better coverage 13d6ad587 https://git.io/JvxDo (152020-04-08T19:21:53Z) misspapaya: Markow: yeah. I'm on linux and I'm using a COTS router with forwarding Noclip: Looks like it's your turn now with having some firewall-fun misspapaya ... Markow: Noclip: You read my mind, lol Noclip: 😂 misspapaya: Noclip: lol except I'm not messing with iptables yet lmat: DS-minetest: "it's incredible how many error messages such a ..." that sentiment has created competitions for "most verbose error output" :-) Markow: When in doubt, the culprit is the firewall. Lesson to be learned. ;) Noclip: Router / ISP firewall is still a firewall and I'm pretty sure those ones can be even worse then messing around with iptables if you have bad luck. Markow: Nice thing about custom rules with Iptables, they are easily flushed and/or changed Markow: Noclip: What distro are you on? Noclip: Linux Mint Markow: Cool lmat: Calinou: howdy? I don't know if you read the backlog, but a couple folks have asked about minetest flatpak. Maybe someone has already brought it to your attention? The folks were complaining becaues the published flatpak is still on 5.1 instead of 5.2 I think. Markow: I'm really enjoying openSUSE, so much, I've been using it for about 7 years straight now misspapa1a: how come typing my external IP into firefox brings up my router config page? I think I have more fundamental network issues than this game right now :P lmat: misspapa1a: That doesn't sound odd. lmat: misspapa1a: Your external IP address *is* your router. That is, your router is the only device on the internet with that IP address. misspapa1a: lmat: I don't like it lmat: misspapa1a: What do you want to happen? ^_^ misspapa1a: I've never had a router do that before misspapa1a: lmat: I want "connection refused" lmat: misspapa1a: If I use your public IP address in my browser, it will (almost surely) connection refused (or timeout). lmat: 72-199-236-180 ? Let me check. misspapa1a: 72.220.71.78 lmat: spinning... lmat: oh lmat: That's spinning now (I'm trying HTTP and HTTPS). sfan5: misspapa1a: your router is lacking NAT reflection sfan5: this causes accesses to your public IP to work differently from behind and past the NAT lmat: misspapa1a: It's not resolving. You're safe (in this regard). misspapa1a: oh I thought the web interface would only listen on the local subnet sfan5: or might just be a firewall rule that captures all lan traffic and puts it toward the webinterface lmat: misspapa1a: What OS is on your router? lmat: sfan5: ++ DS-minetest: !up localhost MinetestBot: localhost:30000 seems to be down (IPv6) misspapa1a: lmat: idk probably vxworks if I had to guess lmat: misspapa1a: Sure, some custom built-in OS. misspapa1a: oh my ip changed misspapa1a: I'm guessing my isp probably doesn't want me to host anything lmat: misspapa1a: Changed since when? misspapa1a: since I started messing with hosting a server lmat: misspapa1a: 10 minutes, 10 weeks or more like 10 months? misspapa1a: within the last 10 minutes lmat: wow, that's fast! lmat: That's bad...that will interrupt many web pages (gmail, youtube, etc.)... Markow: Your ISP really monitors your movements misspapa1a: oh well I should just rent a vps Markow: They all want to eliminate bandwidth where ever they can Calinou: lmat: looking at updating it right now, thanks for bringing it to my attention sfan5: Calinou: when you edit the make script, you can also add NDEBUG=1 to the irrlicht make command Calinou: will do :) Calinou: make -C source/Irrlicht NDEBUG=1 sharedlib Calinou: like this? sfan5: yea misspapa1a: !up 72.199.236.180 MinetestBot: 72.199.236.180:30000 is up (195ms) Calinou: does this improve performance, binary size, or both? misspapa1a: hahahaha it's UDP sfan5: performance most likely Calinou: Minetest is UDP-only indeed sfan5: binary size depends on whether flatpak strips it Markow: misspapa1a: What did you change? misspapa1a: Markow: told the router the game uses UDP instead of TCP Markow: misspapa1a: Very simple, haha! Calinou: Flatpak will strip it to a separate package, so that shouldn't impact people who just play the game Calinou: sfan5: I noticed this patch is in the Flatpak, is it relevant for upstream? https://github.com/flathub/net.minetest.Minetest/blob/5844f665b2686278f9e288e1d8112f0668458021/minetest-i18n.patch#L16 Calinou: (i.e. should we merge it back) Markow: misspapa1a: The reason why I inquired about 'creative' is because I've been looking for a server in which the players build cities / towns / or villages in protected areas and connected each one with a railway line and station. Markow: There is one server I'm on now (a public one) which has that feature in limited fashion Markow: Only, it's limited to Minecarts, and not trains sfan5: Calinou: hmm good question Markow: But this server is quite nice with excellent protection sfan5: looking in /usr/share/locale here doesn't show any other projects creating their own folder Calinou: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9618 Verticen: Markow: What server were you refering to earlier with the cities connected with minecarts? Markow: Vertiecen, the admin allowed me to connect the city I'm building with the spawn area. I'll give you the server infor now, one moment... Markow: *Verticen Markow: It's called "SPiRiT's Creative World", minetest.beit-hageula.com Markow: It's nice Markow: But heavy on media Markow: My city is called "Zakliczyn", you can take the train (Minecart) there from the Metro Station near the spawn area Markow: I still have work to do on the city, but it's coming along MinetestBot: 02[git] 04TheTermos -> 03minetest/minetest: Collision various fixes (#9343) 133ad5388 https://git.io/JvxSj (152020-04-08T20:45:05Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow to select en as language in settings menu (#9604) 13c1742b0 https://git.io/Jvx9e (152020-04-08T20:44:52Z) misspapa1a: what's a good mod for adding mobs? misspapa1a: I'd like something vaguely similar to minecraft with both good and bad mobs rubenwardy: mob_redo is stable, but the interactions are terrible rubenwardy: mobkit is an interesting mod, but it still very much WIP sfan5: oh I guess mt places locale in /usr/share/minetest because everything else is in there too misspapa1a: thanks Andrey01: Like again a bot attack on the forum (650) Xorkle: henlo lmat: misspapa1a: I run minetest server at home. lmat: Is there a way to put construction instructions on a message board in my world? DS-minetest: does `luajit -O2 -bl input output` actually already optimize the code? sfan5: oil_boi_: here's a setting you might want to add to crafter: doubletap_jump = true oil_boi_: Ooo, that's a good idea! Thanks :D sfan5: doubletap_w_for_sprint unfortunately doesn't seem to exist, maybe it should oil_boi_: sfan5: I'll add it in the clientside mod! Markow: Take care everyone, thanks again for the help! sfan5: why don't saplings work as fuel :s DS-minetest: fix it sfan5: also can't open a chest when holding a sapling sfan5: climbable leaves is a nice touch though Verticen: Anyone know a good weather mod? The ones i've tried make it constantly rain. DS-minetest: the airsword mod always keeps sunny weather (apart from nights) DS-minetest: !mod airsword MinetestBot: DS-minetest: Air Sword [airsword] by PilzAdam - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9062 Verticen: DS-minetest: Thanks for that suggestion, that's a dead link though. I don't want allways sunny weather, nor do I want always rain, you see? DS-minetest: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md DS-minetest: it would be nice if MinetestBot also included a link to smalljoker's mod search site, this would allow accessing other things, like the source, directly (and at that site links to contentdb could be added) oil_boi_: sfan5 Yes it's still in alpha 0.03, I'll add those in when the extreme test of the weather is done :P Lot's of bugs right now orbea: sfan5: fwiw a sapling is generally useless as burning wood irl swift110: hey all Verticen: sfan5: are you working on some sort of modpack? (when you say it is still in alpha 0.03) rubenwardy: Verticen: oil_boi_, not sfan5 oil_boi_: Hi swift110 Verticen: oh, thx. Verticen: yeah, oil_boi_ are you working on some sort of modpack? oil_boi_: Verticen: I'm working on a game mode which utilizes server side and client side modding api :D Verticen: oil_boi_: What is it like? (Or do you have a webpage or readme that would answer that question) Extex: How can I make a function that is like a combo of math.floor and matg.ceil Extex: It'd work is the same way as the javascript Math.round rubenwardy: likkee... round? rubenwardy: math.round = math.floor(x + 0.%) rubenwardy: math.round = math.floor(x + 0.5) rubenwardy: that's not actual code Extex: tnx sfan5: useful feature #2 for today https://a.uguu.se/5gpv8lWBgOfX_.gif ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood sfan5: I should really go to bed, though rubenwardy: same rubenwardy: today, I wrote a behaviour tree implementation in a minetest mod rubenwardy: for use in a simple entity API Extex: XD Extex: "I just created a whole new api cause I was bored" Extex: lol rubenwardy: Well, I'm making something for the combat mod jam on the unofficial discord orbea: do you have to be relatively close to a sapling for it to grow? Henson: hi everyone, I'm new to minetest. Is there a way I can find a node of a certain type? I can't figure out how to get back to a certain location, but I know I put a bed there. Can I find all the locations in the game of bed nodes? Henson: game -> world Henson: I eventually figured out how to hack the minetestmapper program to find the nodes and thus the place I was looking for. Obot01: hi Extex: How would I make a node that does the following: Extex: Big stack of blocks Extex: | Extex: | Extex: | Extex: | Extex: | Extex: And you place gravel on top Extex: And it falls through the nodes Extex: And when it gets to the bottom it becomes a new thingy "my_mod:node_with_gravel" Extex: Would this require me to overwrite the falling node entity? swift110: hey all nephele_: Extex, If you place down your gravel block, you could then check in its on place function if there is a specific node below, but generally i dont think the falling node entity can fall through anything, so you probably need to use another entitiy you define indeed nephele_: I think you would need to unset that it is physical, and do some specific code for the entity to trigger making your new node (probbaly once it passed all your nodes and collides with another one, and then y+1) (not sure how to determine collisions effectively here, but surely there is a way) Extex: nephele: ok thanks :) BigCaballito: The website says it is down for maintenance, what's going on? sfan5: which website in particular? BigCaballito: minetest.net website rubenwardy: works to me rubenwardy: https://www.minetest.net BigCaballito: It says within pages is temporarily down for maintenance rubenwardy: oh, no it's not rubenwardy: https://www.githubstatus.com/ BigCaballito: Oops, can't switch tabs on Android BigCaballito: Githubstatus says it is investigating a pages error astro: why does it seem that minetest opens a window with no information, closes it, and then opens a new one with correct class information but inherits the geometry of the previous window? astro: it interferes with my wm, which I configured to tile windows by default unless they have a certain class astro: I make minetest floating by default, but it still inherits the geometry of the blank window which got tiled sfan5: might be because it's querying video modes sfan5: or maybe an implementation detail in Irricht sfan5: irrlicht* rubenwardy: yeah, you need to open a fake window in order to get things like screensize astro astro: is it not possible to give this initial window a class? QwertyDragon: https://forum.minetest.net/ rubenwardy: what do you mean by a class? QwertyDragon: An error occurred during a connection to forum.minetest.net. PR_END_OF_FILE_ERROR rubenwardy: QwertyDragon: hardware issues QwertyDragon: ok ty blaise: lol astro: rubenwardy: WM_CLASS(STRING) = "Minetest", "Minetest" Andrey01: The forum doesn`t work at all these days :( Andrey01: Does anybody know why it is not loaded and when it will be fixed? rubenwardy: hardware, no idea rubenwardy: !op sfan5: !op rubenwardy rubenwardy: hm rubenwardy: didn't think so rubenwardy: not that anyone will read that oil_boi_: So this is the new forum, yay Andrey01: I think the reason why the forum doesn`t load is in such majority of bots because it throws out to me 504 error. oil_boi_: Andrey01: https://www.lifewire.com/504-gateway-timeout-error-explained-2622941 This means that the network is working properly but the server itself is possibly overloaded because of internal problems, bots, or ddos attacks oil_boi_: I'm not a network admin but that's what the internet told me :P rubenwardy: the problems are probably something to do with the 658 users online oil_boi_: 639 guests :O Andrey01: the forum has got worked finally now Andrey01: Hmm, and really, why is so great amount of members lately? Why are so many bots? eyekay: I wanted to translate minetest to hindi (hi-IN), where should i ask about that? sfan5: uh hmm sfan5: do you want to translate the main menu and related thing? or in-game content of minetest_game? both? eyekay: Both sfan5: ok let me just figure out how that works eyekay: Ok thanks sfan5: ok so sfan5: eyekay: you'll want to register here https://hosted.weblate.org/accounts/register/ then you can start translating here https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/minetest/minetest/hi/ eyekay: Thank you sfan5: the in-game content is translated using these templates (there are more than this one): https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/default/locale/template.txt sfan5: you can fork the repository on github, fill those in and then create a Pull Request eyekay: Ok thanks sfan5: though before in-game translations will work, the engine translation (on weblate) needs to be merged astro: where in the code is the window created? sfan5: that code is inside irrlicht astro: is it irrlicht which opens the fake window before the real one? sfan5: the only code inside Minetest that deals with X11 is this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/client/renderingengine.cpp#L253 sfan5: directly that is, the engine could still indirectly cause a fake window to be opened astro: what I want to do is try to make it so that the fake window sets WM_CLASS so that my wm properly recognizes it and avoids tiling it sfan5: hm actually the code I linked is the one responsible for settzing the class Astrobe: Hello, I've got issues with 5.2: Astrobe: entity:getvelocity() was apparently deprecated -- alright Astrobe: But it seems that the new get_velocity can return a nil result ? DS-minetest: Astrobe: it returns nil if it's an invalid objectref Astrobe: Hmmm so I guess on_punch was called after the mob died froom the punch. sfan5: is mobs_redo causing crashes? Astrobe: yeah, but a quite old version sfan5: yes I was about to tell you to update Astrobe: I am afraid I cannot, cause I have hacked it too much. Now that's my problem. Thanks. lmat: How do I change the message of the day? I see where it is in configuration. Is it sufficient to modify that file and that's all, or do I need to shut off the server, modify the message, then restart? Astrobe: Most config changes need a restart, lmat. Astrobe: If not all, actually. Anything minetest.conf needs a restart for sure. lmat: Astrobe: So everyone is expected to restart all their servers every day (for a motd update if nothing else)? :'( sfan5: you can use /set -n to change settings ingame rubenwardy: Astrobe: methods on objects such as get_velocity will return nil when the object is deleted. You need to make sure that the code handles delete objects correctly lmat: sfan5: awesome! lmat: It looks like the wiki and fora are not so stable (wiki better than fora). What's going on? I guess a lot more people using these things now that everyone's staying home? ^_^ rubenwardy: tags on CDB are now searchable - https://content.minetest.net/packages/?tag=environment MinetestBot: 02[git] 04orbea -> 03minetest/minetest_game: trees: Reduce local variables (#2637) 1314a385d https://git.io/JvA5n (152020-04-07T17:36:03Z) DS-minetest: hm, if you attach a player to some object with offset, the wield raycast will start from the player position, but the camera is not moved. is this intended? DS-minetest: looki looki https://i.imgur.com/3Knwc9f.png DS-minetest: used clicker:set_attach(self.object, "", {x = 20, y = 10.5, z = 2}, {x = 0, y = 0, z = 0}) (where clicker is the player and self.object the helicopter) DS-minetest: the wrong node is selected DS-minetest: the camera is not moved Krock: I think it wouldn't be backwards compatible to change that lmat: Hmmm...how do I test my port forwarding? I have SSHed to a machine outside my LAN and I would like to ... something like telnet MYNAME 30000; but of course the port forwarding is for UDP. What kind of packet should I send to make the server log something? echo "minetest /connect" > /dev/udp/MYNAME/30000; ? Krock: but from the looks, shooting line and crosshair use different points Krock: bug was already reported DS-minetest: ah Krock: !up yourup 3000 MinetestBot: yourup:3000 seems to be down (host did not resolve) Krock: ^ also works in /query, lmat Krock: but well yes, you can also write/copy the ping script from there Krock: I believe there's also a basic snippet in the doc/ directory Krock: (there = MinetestBot modules repo) Astrobe: or maybe nmap can tell if port is reachable ? lmat: "you can also write/copy the ping script from there" from whence? lmat: Oh, minetestbot modules repo, okay. lmat: Astrobe: Looks like nmap supports udp (never used it before). I'll give it a shot, thanks1 lmat: "Host is up (0.044s latency)." ! lmat: I would ask you guys to just join my game, but I don't trust any of you, so... lmat: :-P Astrobe: Yeah, especially K-r-o-c-k. Krock: just use minetestbot to test the connection. sfan5 will be glad seeing those private IPs in the non-existent logs ;) Krock: Astrobe: you succeeded not highlighting me, but not in preventing me from reading it anyway lmat: xD Astrobe: You know you are writing in too many languages for you when you write "if not v return then" in Lua... Astrobe: My server is not up anyway, so I'm safe :-) Krock: Astrobe: you know that when writing if (not v) { code end Krock: or commenting Lua code using // Krock: or C code using #.. well, the color of the text changes, but that's for a different reason sfan5: lmat: nmap saying the host is up does not guarantee that MT works DS-minetest: comment in C with #define DS-minetest: (if that works) Astrobe: #define REM this is a comment :D DS-minetest: and multiline comments with #ifdef bla comment #endif Krock: #if 0 lmat: sfan5: All I need to know is that my packet was delivered (through the Internet, firewall, and switch). astro: I've done some printf-debugging and I find that the engine only creates one window, initially without any info astro: the engine later on sets information such as WM_CLASS on the window (my wm doesn't update the window yet but at this point it doesn't matter) astro: but then the engine calls setResizable (an irrlicht function) which destroys and recreates the window (now my wm realises this is minetest) astro: I'm not sure how one would set WM_CLASS at the correct time to make my wm play nice, but I suppose it won't be a simple fix Astrobe: I don't know what your particular problem is, but tools like xprop might help. Nutty8: Hello!! Nutty8: Are you all fine? Krock: No, this is Patrick. Nutty8: kkkkk DS-minetest: you small joker Nutty8: I'm sorry, I was not expecting this :') Krock: also nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition Krock: Nutty8: I'm just passing by Krock: you're welcome to stays Krock: -s Nutty8: To thank you guys for making minetest :D Nutty8: Also Nutty8: Is the forum offline? '=D DS-minetest: read the topic Krock: i.e. /topic DS-minetest: yeah, the irc topic, not some topic on the forum, that would break the law of forums Nutty8: Ohhhh I see Nutty8: Thanks ;) astro: Astrobe: thanks for mentioning xprop! astro: I found that xprop can still track the window even after it apparently gets destroyed and recreated astro: so I guess it just gets hidden and unhidden again, or something to that effect astro: I suppose there might be a way to create a hidden window, set its properties, and only afterwards make it visible? Astrobe: AFAIK its the "client" program that does all this, but the WM can do its own things. That's how virtual desktops are done. Astrobe: Some WMs let you define crazy rules to place specific program windows on specific desktops and such. Astrobe: Maybe you'll find something helpful there: http://tools.suckless.org/x/ DS-minetest: :O is there still no math.round helper? astro: Astrobe: thanks, I already enjoy using some of suckless's software astro: I was asking whether making the client (ie minetest) only show the window after having set its properties (most importantly WM_CLASS) would be feasible astro: it would help avoid the issue of the wm forcing the window into a tiling space when it has a class rule to not do that to minetest Tumby: can anybody help me with the lua voxelmanip? im trying to place doors with it, but the top half of the door seems bugged. players can place blocks there, even though the door is supposed to be in the way sfan5: how are you playing the door? DS-minetest: doors are special, look into the mtg code Tumby: oh so apparently theres a special node called doors:hidden that goes on top sfan5: yes sfan5: you should really be placing doors the normal way, you usually only need a voxelmanip when you need performance Tumby: i tried set_node and place_node and got the same results Tumby: place_node was even worse. the door wasn't even rotated the right way DS-minetest: you'll need to place the door craftirm DS-minetest: item* DS-minetest: if you want to place the door with voxelmanip or set_node, don't forget to rotate the invisible tiny thingy correctly Tumby: im assuming the invisible thing gets the same param2 as the actual door DS-minetest: maybe sfan5: calling minetest.registered_craftitems["doors:door_wood"].on_place should work to place the door correctly sfan5: though you can't choose the rotation that way Tumby: placing the doors:hidden node works flawlessly sfan5: but it's not portable ;) Tumby: can you explain what you mean? sfan5: it's specific to the current implementation of the doors mod as found in minetest_game sfan5: a future update might break your door placing sfan5: but that's probably no surprise to you * DS-minetest: doesn't beliefe that spending time in making it super-duper future-proof is worth it luizrpgluiz: hi luizrpgluiz: this forum.minetest.net error 505 why? Extex: They're having some hardware iasues Extex: They are working on fixing it luizrpgluiz: :) lmat: I'm running a minetest server in docker. Port 30000 is forwarded. I'm running minetest; on the same machine as the server. I put in localhost and 30000 for connection details and name "uuuu". The progress bar hangs at "Connecting to server", then it fails to connect with "Connection timed out". lmat: Sounds like a typical: you didn't set up the docker container properly. lmat: Oooohhh.... it's 30000 UDP?! lmat: Okay, set up docker to publish udp rather than tcp. Works fine now. lmat: Thanks, guys! rubenwardy: lol, glad you worked it out lmat lmat: \o/ Copenhagen_Bram: i just tossed a spear into the air in realcraft and caught it to see what would happen Copenhagen_Bram: i now have half a heart left Copenhagen_Bram: suprised pikachu face Copenhagen_Bram: realtest* Extex: I'm thinking about making a mod Extex: That adds oil VanessaE: basic_materials has oil. Extex: It's not a visible thing but it's pumped Extex: Like crude oil Extex: How would I generate a noise value stretching across the map of the oil levels of all the mao VanessaE: I suppose most people would use some kind of perlin noise. Extex: Does minetest have a builtin way to create perlin noise? VanessaE: yes but I don't remember the API calls offhand Extex: Found it! Extex: minetest.get_perlin(seeddiff, octaves, persistence, scale) Extex: But I have no idea how to use it XD tf2ftw: VanessaE, where can I find plantline_i18n ? tf2ftw: * plantlife VanessaE: that's probably outdated now. tf2ftw: should i not use vines? VanessaE: I don't remember :P VanessaE: but, the modpack as a whole is already self-contained VanessaE: you shouldn't need anything extra besides biome_Lib tf2ftw: I'm confused by that. I've been moving the individual mods from the modpack into the mods folder. Is there a way to keep them in the modpack but still have them picked up in world.mt? VanessaE: you just put the modpack in there in whole. VanessaE: and configure your world like normal tf2ftw: got it/ tf2ftw: thanks tf2ftw: does this room have a preference in paste websites? VanessaE: not really. VanessaE: though it's a good idea to use one which has syntax highlighting, if you're sharing code VanessaE: (I usually use pastebin.com, or if I need wide lines, pastebin.ubuntu.com) tf2ftw: VanessaE, I unzipped the plantlife modpack into my mods folder. here are the warnings I'm getting tf2ftw: https://privatebin.net/?b3ac62e504d396b5#D8ja7iT6rMvbViTVx4VQZ7ybF4tGxNaRxNF8rijp5J55 VanessaE: 2020-04-06 03:18:53: WARNING[Main]: Will not load: /root/.minetest/mods/plantlife_modpack/along_shore VanessaE: 2020-04-06 03:18:53: WARNING[Main]: Overridden by: /root/.minetest/mods/along_shore VanessaE: etc. VanessaE: obviously you forgot to delete the "individual" copies you were making before. VanessaE: fix that first :) tf2ftw: ah you're right. sleepy. thanks tf2ftw: is there any purpose in repairing tools like pickaxe? tf2ftw: I'm also wondering if there is a recommended mod for keeping a level indicator on the character. jc193232002: hello Edgy1: im helping someone with minetest 5.2 and he gets this error when trying to migrate to postgresql: "An unhandled exception occurred: PostgreSQL database error: FATAL: role "SVR_MT" does not exist" Edgy1: I don't understand what that means Edgy1: oh nvm, SVR_MT is what he set for a username. read it wrong Edgy1: figured it out. i didnt realize thats what he set jc193232002: hey yall just created my first server but there is no world generated and the screen is just black, any solutions? bernhard16: hello, i use 5.2.0 with whynot-game, when i start a local multiplayer with savegame i get the following error: virtual void* ServerThread::run(): A fatal error occurred: Couldn't save env meta - do you have any suggestions? bernhard16: im on linuxmint sfan5: is the world folder accidentally marked as read-only? sfan5: other than that I don't think there can be another reason for this error bernhard16: thanks, that helps i think, i messed it up because the kids-account is not admin and now the kids are not owner anymore... will try to fix and tell you then bernhard16: changing ownership of the world-folder helped, now it works, god am i happy now, would haved hated to tell the kids i broke their game, have a nice day and ty for the fast help MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Sort items into correct categories (#2612) 1305fad37 https://git.io/JvNNt (152020-04-06T13:15:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04An0n3m0us -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Transform brick top texture to align bricks correctly (#2607) 137fc7fa4 https://git.io/JvNN8 (152020-04-06T13:19:52Z) rubenwardy: Wuzzy: would you be willing to change your mod update policy to include feature freezes? It would be very helpful to have you update your mods during feature freeze, where you can complain about any weirdness or problems you find in your many mods rubenwardy: applies to everyone MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Enable player animation when Right Click (#2622) 137d230fd https://git.io/JvNNE (152020-04-06T13:22:08Z) Wuzzy: hmmmm i dont think have found a problem so far that relates to my mods rubenwardy: it's not impossible Wuzzy: the only true bug so far is the crashing with mobs reported by sfan5, but this was totally Wuzzy: my fault Wuzzy: because i used an objectref at a time when i was not allowed to Wuzzy: i was just lucky it didnt crash in earlier versions sfan5: not everyone holds that opinion sfan5: using objectrefs after removal worked just fine before and I don't think it could segfault either (that was with players only) Wuzzy: doing stuff with dead objectrefs is a bug anyway Wuzzy: no matter if mt crashes or not rubenwardy: two things this release were "fixed" when there weren't even issues reported - objectrefs and get_content_id rubenwardy: you could argue that making it "safer" isn't helpful unless there are issues/bugs due to it rubenwardy: idk though, making things safer during undefined behaviour sgtm Wuzzy: whatever, i just fix my broken code, period 😛 Wuzzy: thankfully, most mods dont need to be touched Wuzzy: the most common update will be ephemeral sounds but thats not *really* important rubenwardy: sound_play without an explicit parameter should be deprecated, that would be nice Wuzzy: prepare for massive log spam then rubenwardy: like, without ephemeral specified as true or false sfan5: it's really not that important Wuzzy: i still added it to all my mods Wuzzy: i just need to release them, but thats painful Wuzzy: because I need to update the forum post ... 😮 Wuzzy: rubenwardy: what do you mean with the get_content_id fix? rubenwardy: get_content_id throws an error instead of returning ignore if the node doesn't exist rubenwardy: get_content_id on an unregistered node is usually a bug that can cause obscure errors messages later on sfan5: Wuzzy: how come https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/9302 exists when MTG jungle grass isn't even stackable? Wuzzy: how annoying sfan5: or is your grass just so tall? Wuzzy: sigh. not everything revolves around MTG sfan5: no of course Wuzzy: the plantlike drawtype is not only used for plants like grass sfan5: but I'd like to know the situation in which this is problem for you Wuzzy: its one of the bugs i found in testing with devtest rubenwardy: what draw type is papyrus? Wuzzy: oh crap sfan5: the papyrus texture is not higher than the node, though Wuzzy: congratulations, you have just killed a PR! 😀 Wuzzy: yes it would break papyrus sfan5: https://a.uguu.se/01BpwtjwowEm_.png oh you're right, it creates gaps Wuzzy: hmmmm rubenwardy: hmmmm is no longer here :'( Wuzzy: maybe i can make it so that it only applies if visual_scale > 1 Wuzzy: btw, firelike is also not only used for fire Wuzzy: as it turns out, its also incredibly useful for plants Wuzzy: example: Aotearoa Wuzzy: sfan5: do you see any problem if I keep the PR's code, but use it only if visual_scale > 1 sfan5: maybe sfan5: is there any reason someone would like to use visual_scale>1 and have textures overlap perfectly? Wuzzy: hmm no idea Wuzzy: you mean, overlap perfectly, as in, no rotation? Wuzzy: my strategy to fix z-fighting is wrong anyway Wuzzy: the truly correct way to fix z-fighting is different. Irrlicht provides a way iirc Wuzzy: its always a bad idea to fix z-fighting by applying offset or rotation, unless that's intended anyway Wuzzy: argh. i think my alternative solution won't work as well Wuzzy: wait. or maybe it will... i need to play around with this... Wuzzy: sfan5: so you're basically aying i shouldnt touch plantlike for now? sfan5: that might be better for now, yes Wuzzy: its better we figure out the correct way to fix z-fight then Wuzzy: because the bug is still technically there :/ Wuzzy: btw, did you look at DevTest so far? sfan5: no Wuzzy: 😮 Wuzzy: in like all my new bug reports it now appears haha Wuzzy: anyway, i hope DevTest will make it into official one day... Wuzzy: the old [minimal] is horribly outdated Wuzzy: oh this reminds me. i should probably update the PR, now that 5.2.0 is out rubenwardy: I'll look at devtest soon sfan5: look at my PRs first :^) Wuzzy: 😀 Wuzzy: DPI scaling for windows? Wuzzy: ooohhh Wuzzy: So ... this is the reason why so many people complained about hudbars being misplaced... Wuzzy: rubenwardy: note i will soon make a force-push to devtest Wuzzy: (to the PR) rubenwardy: well, I'm at work so won't be checking it out quite yet MinetestBot: 02[git] 04dcbrwn -> 03minetest/minetest: Add tone mapping for entities (#9521) 13661b4a1 https://git.io/JvNAj (152020-04-06T14:06:40Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04wt -> 03minetest/minetest: Add allowed_mapgens option in game.conf. (#9263) 13f91124a https://git.io/JvNxe (152020-04-06T14:06:16Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Some minor Lua API documentation clarifications (#9461) 13faedde0 https://git.io/JvNxv (152020-04-06T14:05:27Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Clarify use of minetest.request_insecure_environment() (#9597) 13143a37e https://git.io/JvNhf (152020-04-06T14:54:27Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Calinou -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow relative directories for `screenshot_path`, tweak default path … 13f45ba78 https://git.io/JvNhJ (152020-04-06T14:54:12Z) sfan5: so uh sfan5: who is responsible for https://flathub.org/apps/details/net.minetest.Minetest and why is it still at 5.1.0? est31: sfan5: flatpak upstream developers est31: https://github.com/flathub/net.minetest.Minetest/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed est31: apparently Calinou made the last update sfan5: ah, interesting lmat: When I joined my server for the first time, I was placed into a world. Where did this world come from? When was it generated? How can I generate another one (with a different generator?)? sfan5: it was generated the instant you joined the world, to generate a different looking one you can delete the world folder and start again lmat: sfan5: Thanks! How do I choose which generator to use? sfan5: the mg_name setting lmat: sweet. And a server can only host one world, right? sfan5: yes sfan5: but a single computer can obviously run multiple instances of minetest, if that's what you're thinking lmat: And I can choose which game to play in that world? sfan5: yes lmat: sfan5: Understood. I would put each world on a different port and instance of minetestserver, right? sfan5: yes lmat: sfan5: What's the best game? sfan5: that's a very subjective question sfan5: but I'd suggest starting with minetest_game and adding a few mods (https://www.minetest.net/customize/#mods) so the world isn't as empty rubenwardy: I recommend these mods: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/dev_plays_minetest lmat: sfan5: These will be world-generation mods? So mods that I need to have installed before generating the world? sfan5: no you can add them fine at any point in time sfan5: of course if a mod adds e.g. a new ore, you may have to explore a new part of your world to actually find them lmat: sfan5: okay. It looks like lots of objects. So they make it possible to create new stuff that isn't in the base game? lmat: sfan5: ooohhh, okay sfan5: yes lmat: rubenwardy: Whoa, this is a sub-module-rich git repo? lmat: sfan5: u da man. rubenwardy: yeah lmat: So in general, minetest worlds are spawned as they're explored? And the map generator generates blocks on the fly? rubenwardy: yes lmat: (I did select * from blocks; in the world. interesting. There are 16,000 blocks.) rubenwardy: the map generator makes 80x80x80 nodes, 5x5x5 map blocks at a time rubenwardy: by defualt lmat: sweet Calinou: yay, my PR was merged jonadab: Does lua's string concatenation operator really only work with literals, or am I doing something else wrong? If I try to do anything like foo = bar .. "x", I always get an error, like "attempt to concatenate global", "attempt to concatenate local", etc. rubenwardy: are they declared? rubenwardy: they do work with variables jonadab: That doesn't seem to make any difference. jonadab: Undeclared, declared, I get the error. rubenwardy: sounds like the variables aren't declared in thatscope rubenwardy: please give a reproducable example jonadab: Hang on, let me pastebin my file. DS-minetest: try local a = "a" local b = a .. "b" jonadab: See line 61 here: http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/pastebin/1156.txt jonadab: I am getting ERROR[Main]: /usr/share/games/minetest/mods/coloredsand/init.lua:61: attempt to concatenate local 'dyename' (a table value) jonadab: local hrprefix is just above the conditional * DS-minetest: would like not to have to count more than 10 lines rubenwardy: you can't concatenate a table rubenwardy: perhaps you meant diename[1] rubenwardy: also, your for loop doesn't work rubenwardy: the dyeid will be 1,2,3,4 jonadab: Oh. OH. jonadab: I was misunderstanding how pairs works then. rubenwardy: pairs iterates over keys and values. The keys are numerical when a table acts like an array jonadab: Riiight. THAT makes sense. rubenwardy: you could change `dyes` to a key-value rather than an array of {key,value} rubenwardy: if the order doesn't matter DS-minetest: and if there are no duplicates rubenwardy: like, local dyes = { white = "White" } rubenwardy: ids should be globally unique rubenwardy: if it is actually an id DS-minetest: like, {white = "White", white = "calcium"} jonadab: What I really want is to use dye.dyes, but I had set that to one side until I get something basically working. jonadab: Because new language. DS-minetest: did you add dye to your dependencies? jonadab: Ah. No, I did not. I will have to look up how to do dependencies. rubenwardy: ~book getting rubenwardy: !book getting MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Getting Started - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/basics/getting_started.html jonadab: It's been so long since I learned a new language. Even C doesn't really count, because I'd worked with C before. And before that, the last one I learned was Perl, in, like, 1999. DS-minetest: and to iterate through dye.dyes, you could do for _, dye_pair in ipairs(dye.dyes) do local name1_thingy, name2_thingy = unpack(dye_pair) ... end jonadab: Oh, a resource specifically about modding Minetest, that will definitely come in handy. DS-minetest: !doc jonadab DS-minetest: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md rubenwardy: !api jonadab MinetestBot: jonadab, someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt rubenwardy: !rtfm DS-minetest MinetestBot: DS-minetest, someone thinks you should read the manual. The development wiki is at http://dev.minetest.net, the regular wiki is at http://wiki.minetest.net. DS-minetest: mhm DS-minetest: !api is what I wanted to use * jonadab: wanders off to fix his code. rubenwardy: !api ShadowBot: help MinetestBot: ShadowBot: help, someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt rubenwardy: disappoint DS-minetest: ~help ShadowBot: DS-minetest: help [] [] rubenwardy: ShadowBot: help ShadowBot: rubenwardy: help [] [] rubenwardy: :'( DS-minetest: ~help ShadowBot ShadowBot: DS-minetest: Error: There is no command "shadowbot". rubenwardy: !api ChanServ: help MinetestBot: ChanServ: help, someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt rubenwardy: I give up Extex: What is it supposed to do? DS-minetest: maybe, you have to tell them in privae DS-minetest: private* rubenwardy: I was trying to get MTB to trigger another bot DS-minetest: yep DS-minetest: ah sfan5: that has been fixed years ago rubenwardy: It would be cool if you could construct a message like !api !say !api !say !api !say jonadab: Ah, I see. mod.conf has dependencies listed. scr267: Anyone know how far back rollback will keep data? sfan5: forever, by default VanessaE: forever. sfan5: in fact you can't change this scr267: I didn't notice an option to change that rubenwardy: !rainbow forever MinetestBot: 4fo7re8ve3r scr267: oh LOL scr267: ok VanessaE: even into hundreds of gigs of log file scr267: Thanks scr267: Guess I'm doomed to run out of disk space then :-/ rubenwardy: can you merge rollback databases? rubenwardy: if that's possible, you could do log rotation rubenwardy: I doubt rollback would be naive enough to store individual actions :D rubenwardy: actually, hm VanessaE: it is. VanessaE: it stores every. single. loggable. action. DS-minetest: !pil jonadab MinetestBot: jonadab, someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Lua, please go to: http://lua.org/pil/ VanessaE: (even technic machines) rubenwardy: yeah, I guess you can combine actions nicely but that wouldn't effect across multiple rollback dbs scr267: OUCH scr267: technic machines? VanessaE: yes. scr267: No wonder my log file is so large :-/ rubenwardy: in which case, as part of a weekly backup you could rotate rollback VanessaE: I had to nuke a 180 GB rollback log a couple days ago. VanessaE: (yes, gigs) DS-minetest: so every second for every machine that updates its meta (every one)? rubenwardy: actually, if they are mergable and have timestamps then you could just run regular SQL queries? scr267: Is it possible to prune older entries? rubenwardy: psuedo: DELETE FROM actions WHERE create_at < datetime() jonadab: DS-minetest: I'd already found Programming in Lua, and have been looking up individual things in it, but I haven't fully absorbed it yet. DS-minetest: jonadab: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/ is most useful scr267: rubenwardy, what did you mean by mergeable though? Aren't those changes written in the main DB as effects on blocks? rubenwardy: mergeable as in you can take two tables and combine them without needing to edit rows scr267: Right... would be nice if the rollback feature was built-in to the main DB... There must be some algorithm that's more efficient than logging every action!? scr267: Although, the rollback feature does point to who did what action at what time so... never mind DS-minetest: like this? select * from logs_in_2019 unit logs_in_2020 DS-minetest: s/unit/union/ rubenwardy: sure I guess rubenwardy: but at that point, you may as well run a delete based on the creation date or index DS-minetest: wouldn't it be possible to keep the databases log file? rubenwardy: ..? rubenwardy: the problem is the size of the database, I don't see why that would be necessary DS-minetest: sqlite uses a WAL and deletes it when it applies the entries, but the log file could be kept rubenwardy: how does that help with file size? DS-minetest: it would only store changes to the database, hence real changes, and minetest would implement less stuff on its own that's done anyways rubenwardy: rollback provides per-player granuarity DS-minetest: oh rubenwardy: you can revert all changes to the world that a player made rubenwardy: I assume that it only does this if no other player modified that position since scr267: I was just going to ask that rubenwardy: in which case, there may not be a need for a date or ID column in the db, which makes deleting impossible DS-minetest: with some more complex mods, this might cause huge problems scr267: what would the effect be if multiple players modified the same things and you want to put things back to a specific point jonadab: Woot. You guys are awesome. I now have something that actually works. It doesn't do everything I want, but now I can work on individual features one at a time and test each change. * jonadab: does a happy dance. rubenwardy: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! * Seirdy: keeps refreshing flatpak repos to see when minetest flathub gon update DS-minetest: ~brainfuck "++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<.+++++.---------.+++++++++++++++.---------------.++++++++++++++.+.>-----------.<-----.+++++." ShadowBot: DS-minetest: Hi MinetestBot DS-minetest: aww lmat: rubenwardy: Hey, it's you! https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4449#issuecomment-240362635 lmat: How do I set the debug.txt location in minetestserver? lmat: I don't see it in minetest.conf sfan5: --logfile on the command line lmat: sfan5: Thanks! lmat: "After installing the mod, start Minetest, go to the world's "Configure" menu, click "Enable All" then "Save"." Where is this configure menu? DS-minetest: in the world select menu DS-minetest: in singleplayer DS-minetest: there's a button lmat: DS-minetest: I start minetest, then click Join Game, then type in my server name and port number then connect. It starts up the game. Krock: before connect there's a button to configure the mods to load lmat: https://imgur.com/Zj6HDev.png lmat: I don't see the button... DS-minetest: go to start game DS-minetest: you want to start the server, you can't join a server that's not running lmat: DS-minetest: The server is running. sfan5: the issue here is DS-minetest: then shut down to configure mods sfan5: when you run and configure a minetest server on some remote machine, you can't use your local GUI to configure the mods lmat: sfan5: This makes good sense :-) sfan5: so what you'll want to do instead if edit world.mt and change all "false"'s to "true" on the lines that say load_mod_... lmat: sfan5: sweet. DS-minetest: (you could download the world, configure in gui, and put it back) lmat: DS-minetest: :'( Krock: but start the server once to fill the world.mt contents lmat: sfan5: https://imgur.com/qecfX1F.png So I'll get some documentation about what to put in this file. Thanks! lmat: Krock: Check! Krock: yet no mods installed anywhere, from the looks of it lmat: Krock: Not yet! This is my first one. sfan5: if you follow Krock's advice you should already have many lines that say load_mod_somename = false lmat: oh...no... I played in the world a little bit, and that's what my .mt file looks like. lmat: sfan5: Oh, but I installed my mod *after* creating the world. Maybe that's te issu. Krock: please ensure your mod is inside ~/.minetest/mods/ (server-side) lmat: s/te issu/the issue/ Krock: the tissue lmat: By the way, when I make changes to minetest.conf or this world .mt file, do I have to restart the server? sfan5: definitely Krock: for minetest.conf always shut down the server first lmat: Thanks Krock: world.mt .. probably not, but it surely wouldn't hurt there as well Krock: I don't think Minetest writes to that file in-game so it should be safe to edit lmat: Well crap... I downloaded home decor mod, but it doesn't have init.lua (logs tell me it's missing). It looks like there are like 50 individual mods in there (with their own init.lua). I guess I Need to move them all to the "mods" directory, then add the enable string to the .mt file :-/ Krock: no lmat: \o/ tell me more! Krock: if there's a modpack.conf or modpack.txt file, it's a modpack Krock: i.e. all directories within are seen as mods lmat: Krock: Ahh, okay. I don't see such a file, but I'll look for one. Krock: so if you get an init.lua error it's probably lacking the modpack file lmat: Excellent tip, thank you! lmat: there is modpack.txt but it's empty. I probably deleted it because it's empty :-o I'll put it back! Krock: that's fine Krock: (if it's empty) lmat: Normally I would ask how I know if the modpack is up and running, but I think since I got an error and now I don't, it should be good ^_^ orbea: what's up with mods that use modpack.txt with 1 mod included? lmat: Maybe I should /giveme (I think that's right) one of the items from the modpack lmat: orbea: Future proofing of course ;-) orbea: heh Krock: modpacks aren't treated any special internally, they're just search path extensions to mods/ Krock: well.. at least not yet sfan5: likely for convenience so that you don't have to get the name right Krock: that's for modpack.conf according to lua_api.txt sfan5: when downloading from github users often had the problem that github would name the folder authorname-modname-456f0e1 sfan5: and then it wouldn't run because you had to rename it to "modname" Krock: or minetest-mod-fireflies-master Krock: where even git clone didn't solve it orbea: ah, i thought it only read the name in the description file, not the directory name Krock: the server does not care about the description Krock: it's only for the main menu information DS-minetest: modPACK names don't matter afaik lmat: I'm trying /giveme 'Power Crystal' and the error is "Cannot give empty item". When I /giveme Paraffin the error is "Cannot give unknown item". sfan5: hmm hmm yes this is very user unfriendly Krock: giveme only works for items Krock: not for item descriptions sfan5: you need to use the internal names such as default:dirt_with_grass lmat: Krock: Where do I get item names? I'm looking at https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/homedecor-crafting-guide/basic-materials.html sfan5: so to grab the items you need I'd suggest just using the creative inventory Krock: to show the item names on hover: client's minetest.conf: tooltip_append_itemname = true VanessaE: I should delete that page, it's horribly outdated. Krock: a wild VanessaE appeared Krock: o/ hey lmat: HEY! VanessaE: hi. lmat: /grant me creative seems to have helped. lmat: VanessaE: It's the author \o/ wowie! lmat: will you sign this? VanessaE: heh. sfan5: VanessaE: I wondered this the other day: which map backend do you use on your servers? postgres? or leveldb? lmat: So excited to start home building \o/ VanessaE: leveldb sfan5: interesting, I'd have expected postgres VanessaE: and the sqlite backend for player meta sfan5: postgres has more opportunities for optimization with minetestmapper sfan5: but I guess you use leaftest anyway VanessaE: meh, it works fine as it is :) lmat: "ERROR[Main]: The following mods could not be found: "homedecor"" from the logs. hmm VanessaE: lmat: homedecor underwent The Big Split a while back, you just need to update and "configure" your world. lmat: VanessaE: I think you mistake me for someone who knows what he's doing ^_^ VanessaE: heh sfan5: did you put load_mod_homedecor = true in your world.mt or how did that happen? lmat: Oh, I see lots of = false in the .wt I'll adjust it! sfan5: here's a tip to save you time sed '/^load_mod/s/false$/true/' -i world.mt lmat: sfan5: I happen to know my way inside and outside of vim ^_^ VanessaE: lmat: update your homedecor copy, then select a world, Configure, tell it to disable the whole modpack, then re-enable it. rubenwardy: if you install something multiple times, you'll get issues lmat: rubenwardy: Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep my list sorted then. lmat: unsatisfied dependencies ^_^ Krock: !wq sfan5: what's a wq VanessaE: he thinks he 's using vi VanessaE: :P lmat: :wq is "write then quit" in vim... :wq! will force write-then-quit ? VanessaE: lmat: what deps are unsatisfied? Krock: oh, then: weöten a help how do I get out M^C :wq! lmat: VanessaE: basic materials for one. Krock: !mod basic_materials VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/basic_materials/ MinetestBot: Krock: Basic Materials [basic_materials] by VanessaE - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21000 VanessaE: I anticipated it. ;) Krock: ninjas these days.. it's so fast lmat: Good because the minetest fora seem to be down. sfan5: MinetestBot does great linking to the forums while they are kinda broken sfan5: your API doesn't happen to store github links, does it Krock? Krock: no problem. wayback machine Krock: it stores git links Krock: changing this temporary now sfan5: well I don't think you should change your api, it should just return both sfan5: then I can change the MinetestBot module lmat: !mod unifieddyes MinetestBot: lmat: Unified Dyes [unifieddyes] by VanessaE - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2178 lmat: Wasn't too hard to find the gitlab: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes ^_^ VanessaE: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes VanessaE: yep, you found it :P lmat: Undeclared global variable "mesecon" accessed at ....minetest/mods/homedecor/homedecor_lighting/init.lua:864 lmat: and Not registering alias, item with same name is already defined: homedecor:rope_light_on_floor_off -> homedecor:rope_light_on_floor_0 lmat: But that doesn't seem too bad :-) Krock: sfan5: "source" is now included in the JSON if it's one of the more often used services VanessaE: ignore them. lmat: Ooooooo, I see the amazing new things! lmat: spool of copper wire, nice. lmat: uncooked terracotta. Can't go wrong with that. lmat: Rock on VanessaE ! lmat: yes, my friends, that's a 3d printer. sfan5: !mod worldedit MinetestBot: sfan5: WorldEdit [worldedit] by sfan5 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=572 - https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit sfan5: yep that's better lmat: weet! MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Clarify descriptions of dry grass, dry dirt 134243d28 https://git.io/JvALo (152020-04-06T20:03:57Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Weather mod: Tune cloud density variation 13720b24e https://git.io/JvALi (152020-04-06T20:05:07Z) VanessaE: lmat: specifically, it's a depiction of a Prusa i3 MK1. :) VanessaE: (note to self: Add a Hypercube 3d printer also) lmat: Awesome ^_^ What do I do with the video game console? MinetestBot: 02[git] 04MoNTE48 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fire mod: Code cleanup, compress textures 1303c9aed https://git.io/JvAL9 (152020-04-06T20:09:39Z) VanessaE: most of the stuff in the "computer" component is decorative lmat: cool VanessaE: but there is a Tetris arcade game lmat: VanessaE: YEah, I think I saw that in the code ^_^ VanessaE: sfan5: is it safe to pull to HEAD on minetest_game and run that on MT 5.1.1 ? sfan5: the only answer I can give from memory is "maybe" VanessaE: heh VanessaE: I'll just leave it where it is then :P Extex: What is the problem with the forums? Extex: Like what is actually happening to the site? IcyDiamond: Extex: <@rubenwardy> "hardware" issues with the VPS it is hosted on Extex: Oh ok Extex: How long until it's fixed? IcyDiamond: Nobody knows for certain, unfortunately Extex: ,'/ sfan5: hmm adding this feature was a good idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7N5WAFoLLc rubenwardy: wow DS-minetest: Nice! Extex: Wow that's pretty cyool DS-minetest: what is the number? DS-minetest: and how is the distance calculated DS-minetest: ? DS-minetest: (distance player <-> cube and number for cubeapply) sfan5: the brush isn't new by the way sfan5: DS-minetest: the node found by raycast forms the center of a 20x20x20 cube, then //drain is called DS-minetest: isn't such a far raycast expensive? DS-minetest: ah, so number is sidelength of cube nephele: I wonder if the engine offers a way to stop the liquid simulation hmm sfan5: well I don't notice any delay sfan5: but if you create an item with range = 150 you do get noticable lag due to raycast sfan5: (because the client locks up during that time) nephele: Can probably re-register liquid nodes at startup time to look like liquid but not behave like it * DS-minetest: just made a new mod https://github.com/Desour/brainfuck_chatcommand but can't create forum topic >_< orbea: any recommendations on village mods? DS-minetest: the brush wants me to add many //s DS-minetest: maybe it will eventually work sfan5: you could use //cube with brushes before DS-minetest: the /brush command confuses me //brush //cube 1 1 1 dirt doesn't work sfan5: drop the second // DS-minetest: ah, thanks DS-minetest: now I understand why it's saying to use //..., it wants the player to type that directly into chat DS-minetest: that's not very intuitive sfan5: huh? where does it say what? DS-minetest: when I try to use //brush with some other command, it suggests to use // .. sfan5: you mean this error message? https://github.com/Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit/blob/master/worldedit_brush/init.lua#L104 DS-minetest: yes DS-minetest: it could be improved DS-minetest: i.e. see if it begins with /, if so tell to drop the /s DS-minetest: (instead of suggesting ////bla) sfan5: you are misunderstanding the entire message sfan5: is "//" .. cmd .. " cannot be used with brushes" clearer? DS-minetest: and in the current message say something like "this command doesn't work for brushes ..." DS-minetest: yes DS-minetest: the "use: //bla" sounds like "use //bla as argument in the chatcommand you just typed" jonadab: Hmm. Most of the existing textures that I've checked, are palette-indexed. How advantageous is it to palette-index new textures? jonadab: They _work_ as 32-bit-per-pixel PNG images. DS-minetest: jonadab: you can compare the file sizes jonadab: Oh, right, the server has to send all those textures over the network to the client, doesn't it? Gotcha. * DS-minetest: wonders whether the off-by-one error is intended (eg. cubeapply with size 1 selects a cube with a sidlength of 2 nodes) sfan5: !c math.floor(1/2), math.ceil(1/2) MinetestBot: (0, 1) sfan5: hmm, no DS-minetest: !c 1/2 MinetestBot: 0.5 DS-minetest: aha, python3 makes a float here while python2 would say 0 sfan5: I just realized both "dirt with dry grass" and "dry dirt with dry grass" exist DS-minetest: but no dry dirt with grass DS-minetest: btw. sfan5 is it still possible to somehow somewhere download your oil mod? sfan5: DS-minetest: here's whatever I had lying around as "oil1.1.2dev.zip" https://0x0.st/iud9.zip DS-minetest: oh, thanks! ^_^ sfan5: doubt my code from 2012 will be very useful however nephele: oil mod? what should it do? :3 DS-minetest: nephele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql387RhbWVE sfan5: answer: nothing useful at all nephele: Well, maybe ideas... I have power generation via solar and coal generators already, i know roughly how buildcraft handld oil... maybe i can take some inspiration :) Extex: How does minetest.get_perlin(noiseparams) work? Extex: Hello? Extex: Does anybody know? XD jonadab: It probably uses a perlin noise function. jonadab: HTH.HAND. orbea: in the minetest.conf, how big are "blocks"? The same size as each individual block in game? orbea: struggling to get player_transfer_distance right, maybe 100 is more than I understood? rubenwardy: orbea: a cube in the game is called a "node". A block (full name: MapBlock) is 16x16 nodes rubenwardy: 100 is 1600 metres rubenwardy: if you assume a cube is a metre orbea: thanks :) Sketch2: https://www.isitdownrightnow.com/forum.minetest.net.html rubenwardy: Sketch2: hardware issues Sketch2: k, ty Extex: Woah the forums are really acting up! Extex: What's come up? Extex: Have we like reached the max forum data usage or something? oil_boi_: Is there a function to modify node textures during server loop yet? texmex: oil_boi_: no oil_boi_: texmex: This is a very interesting problem to think about, I cannot see anything which allows me to create nodes while the game is running, or items, if I could do that I could create special nodes during the game loop to create signs. The other option is, create sign entity when signs are placed and simply delete the sign entity when it's sign.get_staticdata is called since that only becomes called on unload. I'm not sure oil_boi_: if nodes get unloaded the same as entities do though oil_boi_: And then register the sign base node as an LBM with sign meta (Text) and yaw so that signs can be angled in any direction oil_boi_: Also the fact that you will be able to overlay the actual texture into the texture of the sign means that they will not look all messy and you can actually read the text texmex: oil_boi_: check out display_api for an implementation like the one you’re describing. newbie: identify? twoelk: great, all my irc scripts got trashed :( * twoelk: muses on what to make of the perfect sunshine outside * twoelk: big sigh twoelk: surfing the forum isn't much fun these days oil_boi_: texmex: https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/issues/5 Hahaha I forgot to add an exception in for TooManyItems, I didn't even know that was possible :P oil_boi_: Now you can get infinite "help" literally in your inventory!! Krock: twoelk: moreover I cannot update the mod search engine easily like this oil_boi_: texmex: I'm so excited to work on the HALLOWEEN! Update once I fix all the bugs you guys found oil_boi_: I love Halloween :D I can't wait for pumpkins! Also Krock is it possible to have the forum move to GitHub? Krock: oil_boi_: excuse me what? oil_boi_: Krock: Oh nevermind, I didn't know github.io was made of static pages oil_boi_: My brains moving a mile a minute right now :T Sorry about that twoelk: if the problems on the forums are current situation related, I wouldn't recomend moving just right now - things will be similar elsewhere nephele: Now that github has more outages, moving more stuff to it is a good move, especially stuff that makes no sense to put on it :D oil_boi_: texmex: Would it be cooler if for the credits: I took the player to a corner of the map, generated the credits in nodes, and then literally scrolled the player down the world to simulate the credits scrolling up? texmex: oil_boi_: It would! But the real cool thing to do would be to have a easter egg portal that brought the player to The Temple of Mese deep underground where credits would be browsable freely. oil_boi_: That's a great idea :D oil_boi_: texmex: Sticky pistons work perfectly now, I'm making a hidden door :D oil_boi_: That duplication glitch was easier to fix than I thought, got me worried for a second until I can just check if it's deactivated before activating it adfeno: Hi Amaz, I and a group of Brazilians made some changes to the interact mod, and would like to know if you accept patches through email (I couldn't find your email address in the auxiliary files or copyright notices of the mod), … adfeno: … or if by giving you the link to the fork you could review that, decide whether to merge it, and tell us the result. sfan5: !seen amaz MinetestBot: sfan5: amaz was last seen at 2020-03-30 15:41:11 UTC on #minetest sfan5: oh huh oil_boi_: texmex: I thought this was a fun way to unveil the trap chest and sticky piston https://youtu.be/zs3BHRymxlw :D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Hypertext: Fix hovercolor not working in global tag (#9582) 130eb3072 https://git.io/JvNGM (152020-04-05T13:04:41Z) orbea: i was bored and read the old discord presence PRs a bit, I appreciate there is at least one game related project refusing that crap :) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04BreadT -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Japanese) 1340dccc0 https://git.io/JvNW3 (152020-04-05T15:27:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (German) 137aec5f4 https://git.io/JvNWs (152020-04-05T15:27:48Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04oguzersen@protonmail.com -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Turkish) 13e6e1c12 https://git.io/JvNWG (152020-04-05T15:25:55Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Update credits for 5.2.0 (#9593) 1309b8f5d https://git.io/JvN80 (152020-04-05T16:30:44Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Continue with 5.3.0-dev 13528b162 https://git.io/JvN8N (152020-04-05T16:31:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Bump version to 5.2.0 1324147d9 https://git.io/JvN8A (152020-04-05T16:31:50Z) sfan5: !op sfan5: ANNOUNCEMENT: Minetest 5.2.0 has been released https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases rubenwardy: est31: I don't seem to be in the Minetest developers team? rubenwardy: my user is https://launchpad.net/~rubenwardy rubenwardy: I've requested access rubenwardy: also might be worth denying all those people rubenwardy: also celeron55 ^ rubenwardy: looks like you're the only one with "Administrator" rank tf2ftw: Hello. rubenwardy: o/ tf2ftw: Where are the mods and maps located when installing from Ubuntu Snap? est31: rubenwardy: only c55 can add you rubenwardy: ok celeron55: i'll set some extra administrators DS-minetest: tf2ftw: ~.minetest/* DS-minetest: oh, forget it celeron55: which is, you two tf2ftw: DS-minetest, thanks but it doesn't seem that the mods are being picked up in that dir est31: celeron55: ok * DS-minetest: didn't see the "Snap" sfan5: rubenwardy: if you have the chance to edit the recipe make sure to look for a place to add -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release to the build flags tf2ftw: I wasn't a fan of the Snap idea and now I'm not loving it in practice either. DS-minetest: tf2ftw: there's a minetest ppa (actually two, one stable and one daily) tf2ftw: Thanks I'll check it out. est31: sfan5: the place for that would be here: https://code.launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/minetest-c55/+git/packaging est31: ... I think sfan5: https://git.launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/minetest-c55/+git/packaging/tree/rules yep tf2ftw: Is the MT wiki open source? I'd like to mirror or supporting the hosting fees. I've been getting a lot of timeouts the past few days sfan5: I tried to find those files a few days ago but failed due to Launchpad's complicated and user-unfriendly interface rubenwardy: est31: is launchpad safe? If I edit the flags and the build fails, can I try again or would I need 5.2.0-1 or something est31: it depends on whether it was uploaded or not est31: there are two steps est31: 1. uploading of the source est31: 2. building the uploaded source est31: if the build fails, say you placed an ( somewhere in the cpp file tf2ftw: DS-minetest, is this the end-user ppa? ppa:minetestdevs/stable est31: then step 1 will succeed but 2 will fail rubenwardy: tf2ftw: yes, we're updating it now rubenwardy: > The build has two steps: first it assembles the source code and uploads it, then it builds the code. If the first step completed successfully but the second one failed, you need to update the version number in the recipe (e.g. 1.2.3-ppa1) before rebuilding. tf2ftw: "now" as in "wait a few min" ? :) est31: rubenwardy: yeah that needs to happen rubenwardy: possibly tens of minutes tf2ftw: lol thanks est31: rubenwardy: anyways, it's always good to add -ppa0 est31: or something like that rubenwardy: ah right, so it can be -ppa1 after est31: yes rubenwardy: should this be changed? Maintainer: Juhani Numminen est31: no est31: if you want to, maybe est31: idk rubenwardy: also, the copyright says it's GPL not LGPL. Is that for the build scripts? rubenwardy: I'll default to loeaving things rubenwardy: as they are est31: oh I guess it was from before the change est31: IIRC minetest changed from GPL -> LGPL early on before I joined est31: so should probably be changed est31: rubenwardy: adding -ppa0 is also good because then it doesnt conflict the proper ubuntu packages est31: then you can be sure the ppa package stays installed over the ubuntu package est31: idk the details tho est31: then step 1 will succeed but 2 will fail est31: to add to this, it will conflict with the uploaded source if you dont change it est31: so that's why you need to add the version identifier est31: rubenwardy: the version only shows up in apt though, it doesn't affect what the minetest program outputs tf2ftw: Snap out. PPA in. Game up and running with mods. Thanks everyone rubenwardy: Ok, so I've 1. appended -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release to the list of cmake flags in rules 2. updated copyright to have the correct licenses, making sure not to change the license of the debian files rubenwardy: https://git.launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/minetest-c55/+git/packaging/commit/?id=0bc3635323bdd991ba507ff4d7fd7e8f97e210c8 sfan5: nice sfan5: thanks rubenwardy: ok, I've queued the builds Wuzzy: IT HAS HAPPENED!!! 5.2.0 is out! good job. rubenwardy: shock Wuzzy: ok now the clock is ticking for MCL2 😀 rubenwardy: build failed https://code.launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable/+recipebuild/2536394 DS-minetest: :/ the opportunity was missed to release minetest on first of april and skip one version to cause confusion, as april fool practical joke rubenwardy: est31: do I need to push upstream minetest git to some debian repo? rubenwardy: it's not detecting the tagged commit Wuzzy: DS-minetest: you mean, Minetest 6.6.6, release of the devil? 😀 rubenwardy: aha rubenwardy: found it rubenwardy: importing again DS-minetest: Wuzzy: nah, rather like from 5.1 to 5.3 so that everyone will wonder on where to find version 5.2 and to make them think that they overslept an upgrade rubenwardy: tf2ftw: the PPA now has 5.2.0 rubenwardy: est31: thanks for your help rubenwardy: hopefully, we won't need to ping your again :D DS-minetest: did anyone ever try playing minetest on a screen with more than 10000 pixels sidelength? Sires: Hello! Sires: I'm trying to make technic chests work with protector redo mod, still I have one problem Sires: to do that I'd have to use minetest.is_protected function from protector mod, but its not working, seems like its still the default minetest.is_protected function Sires: I tried minetest.is_protected == core.is_protected, it says true Sires: I put protector on depends.txt and mod.conf DS-minetest: Sires: protector mods override this function Sires: yes Sires: thats what I want Sires: I want to use the overrided function, but its using the normal one orbea: nether + moreblocks + 5.2.0 = a crash on not finding stairs:stair_cobble DS-minetest: core == minetest -> true * orbea: bisects... DS-minetest: it is already the overridden one (should be at lease) DS-minetest: least* Sires: doesn't seem to work then Sires: I'll do some more testing one sec DS-minetest: Sires: look at your privs DS-minetest: orbea: which nether? DS-minetest: pilz or dog? tf2ftw: rubenwardy, thanks orbea: DS-minetest: this one https://github.com/minetest-mods/nether tf2ftw: FYI, I've started this for myself. Figured I'd share in the spirit of community. https://github.com/chris-roerig/minetest-stuff orbea: is there one I should use instead of that? Sires: ok just tested also old_is_protected == core.is_protected, returns false Sires: so for sure its working DS-minetest: that's the pilz nether. dog nether is better imo: https://github.com/HybridDog/nether-pack/ Sires: but I wonder why my protection is not working, I got all the privs as well rubenwardy: you should consider downloading mods using git, tf2ftw, makes it easier to update rubenwardy: https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/dev_plays_minetest/-/blob/master/update.sh DS-minetest: Sires: I wonder how you got the reference to the original function... Sires: at the mod itself tf2ftw: rubenwardy, thats true. skipped that option for now as I'm considering some type of unified packaging system for mods. Sires: just to test DS-minetest: Sires: if you have protection_bypass, protection mods will always allow you to bypass protection Sires: or at least should.. rubenwardy: also, I'd appreciate CLIs for https://content.minetest.net rubenwardy: something like cdb install tenplus1/mobs Sires: at singleplayer works fine rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7358 rubenwardy: !title MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Add CLI package install interface · Issue #7358 · minetest/minetest · GitHub rubenwardy: I haven't decided whether it's best as a standalone tool, or part of MT rubenwardy: standalone tool would be easier DS-minetest: Sires: what exactly is your problem btw? Sires: Seems like minetest.is_protected returns false orbea: DS-minetest: in which ways it is better? Sires: while I have privs and I am the owner of the protection tf2ftw: rubenwardy, standalone would be great considering could be used for MT and MT-server rubenwardy: So could a CLI as part of mt tf2ftw: true true tf2ftw: thanks for the help all. out for now Sires: even when the area has no protection at all its returning false Sires: that only happens when I host server DS-minetest: orbea: better map generation (pilz nether is just normal mapgen with normal stone swapped with nether stone, some ore with glowstone and so on.), interesting items (eg. nether pearl, new tools, nether wood, blood structure wood, ...), a whole new gamplay thingy (normal picks don't work, you have to craft new picks from nether), ... DS-minetest: => more content orbea: ah, that does sound better DS-minetest: Sires: are you sure you are calling the function correctly (ie. with correct argument types)? Sires: minetest.is_protected(pos, player:get_player_name()) orbea: my bisect resulted in this commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/fd4daefb29f2922937849a207812fe368260f43e Sires: pretty sure thats correct, thats the same as the protector mod calls as well orbea: DS-minetest: if no one has visited the nether yet in current map, swapping mods should be no problem? DS-minetest: orbea: I think so orbea: cool, will try, thanks DS-minetest: ^_^ DS-minetest: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Sires: Lol im here xD DS-minetest: Sires: are there any other mods overriding .is_protected DS-minetest: ? Sires: I'll look orbea: no crash :) Sires: as far as I know only protection mod is this one DS-minetest: Sires: and get sure whether you really have an existing player. print the player name Sires: printed the name, its "Sires" Sires: pos is correct type sfan5: rubenwardy: cdb cli as part of mt would be better DS-minetest: Sires: isn't false the correct return value in this case? it is not protected => the statement "it is protected" is false Sires: that would mean in singleplayer I have no access to anything(I do have all privs)? Because in singleplayer it works just fine Sires: also in chests without protection its returning false DS-minetest: if you have protection_bypass, .is_protected will always return false DS-minetest: it's not protected DS-minetest: hence false Sires: but I have protection_bypass in singleplayer and it returns true Sires: oh wait Sires: I got it Sires: I'll test Sires: (I was using the normal chest thats why it was working) Sires: Worked perfectly thanks so much! DS-minetest: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Sires: xD Verticen: Speaking of single player permissions, is there a command that I can give myself Z to Zoom privlage in single player? sfan5: /grantme zoom Verticen: sfan5: thx Verticen: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! rubenwardy: does zoom still exist? Sires: Its not supposed to? sfan5: huh no sfan5: it does not sfan5: keep the binoculars item and then you can use zoom sfan5: +in your inventory rubenwardy: you also have the ability to zoom when in creative Sires: Just finished altering technic, now its compatible with protectors mod :D Sires: should I perhaps make a pull request? sfan5: making a PR is always a good idea Sires: last time I made they said they were in feature freeze or smth rubenwardy: sounds like a bug fix Edgy1: forums are running extremely slowly rubenwardy: Edgy1: "hardware" issues on the VPS, c55 is on it Edgy1: ok ty rubenwardy johnnyjoy: Does anyone know if floatlands just appear at the mgv7_floatland_level elevation or do they do all the way up from that point. It's not clear from the docs that it's just a thin layer of islands or if islands are scattered from that elevation all the way up like skylands. orbea: would it be possible to make stone punchable and not drop anything like in minecraft? Would prevent silly players from digging down, losing tools adn softlocking themselves... Copenhagen_Bram: hello * Copenhagen_Bram: is playing realtest Copenhagen_Bram: i wonder what the hammer can be used for Copenhagen_Bram: Or the spear... orbea: sfan5: this helped a bit with the mob/sword issues, thanks :) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e774d8ca2fa5ead9f6d739a2031e6655a22a5b4d oil_boi_: I just found my midi keyboard :D Oh my god this will make music production so much easier oil_boi_: Is there a way to move particle spawners? oil_boi_: I have all these questions but the forum won't load :P calcul0n_: afaik the only way to move a particle spawner is to give it a short life time and respawn it at different places oil_boi_: Ohhh okay! calcul0n_, does the particle spawner use opengl or is it calculated by the cpu? calcul0n_: hmm, no idea oil_boi_: calcul0n_: I think I got weather calculated in nicely, weight wise. The only thing I can't account for is the face that the particles seem to be cpu calculated in my testing :( oil_boi_: But what's even more confusing is the fact that my rx580 is at 10% utilization and the cpu is at 38% maxed and the frame rate still goes down oil_boi_: Also I found a pretty extreme bug, if you turn your renderer to d3d9 and then exit the game, come back in, and turn it back to opengl then enable shaders the rendering gets super messed up oil_boi_: I suspect this https://i.imgur.com/uC3S3VA.png is because the renderer is not reinitialized when you change that setting oil_boi_: But that might cause pretty severe memory leaks if not executed properly and this is a super specific case so it's not actually a problem :P MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix respawn not working at all when suitable position was not found 138863527 https://git.io/Jvbwn (152020-04-04T11:06:40Z) oil_boi_: Whoa I think I just managed to make weather light weight :O texmex: * runs to git pull oil_boi_’s latest commits * oil_boi_: texmex: I think you're gonna love it oil_boi_: I wish I knew why the airbrush in gimp is turning white to red when I have gray selected :L calcul0n_: oil_boi_, maybe because your image is in indexed color mode? calcul0n_: see the image menu -> mode oil_boi_: calcul0n: Yeah you were right, and it's all done now :D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04lnjX -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix 'the the' typos in comments (#9554) 13307d737 https://git.io/Jvb6S (152020-04-04T13:52:41Z) oil_boi_: texmex: If you thought just the snow particles were good you're gonna flip out grey: Hello oil_boi_: Hi grey grey: I just though I would tell someone that the forum is down. grey: I went to look up come information on installing on debian and I can't reach the forum. oil_boi_: grey: The forum keeps going down :( grey: Well whoever runs it should reboot it. DusXMT: A bit of a conspiracy theory, perhaps OldCoder wants you to use his forum instead ;) DusXMT: (I mean, who else would DDOS Minetest, of all things? Of course, I have no evidence, just a wild speculation) oil_boi_: I have no idea who that is, but he might be in here right now DusXMT: oil_boi_: A person behind a fork of minetest, he even tried to register the minetest trademark, and hosts his own site with a copy of the forums oil_boi_: If anything I thought Hackeridze would be DDOSing because he seems to have vanished :L oil_boi_: Ooooooh, that's interesting MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix cursor still visible after closing formspec while on HyperText (#… 1386a0e99 https://git.io/Jvbin (152020-04-04T14:17:15Z) grey: I have this one way of installing minetest from git that uses a oneliner someone posted on the forum. grey: And I fucked up my minetest install somehow. grey: I need it baaaaaack. grey: ./minetest: error while loading shared libraries: libIrrlicht.so.1.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory oil_boi_: grey: https://github.com/minetest/minetest oil_boi_: There's a Debian section :D grey: I knooww but that oneliner always grabbed and compiled the latest version from the git. grey: My fault for not copying it somewhere. grey: Anyway yeah forum is down. grey: Pls reboot. grey: Thank you for making minetest. grey: Have a nice day. oil_boi_: texmex: https://youtu.be/w88BgvHJpRY now people can REALLY have fun with snow :D oil_boi_: Snowman mob, maybe? oil_boi_: I wonder if there's a hidden setting for making entities remove themself or die on collsion detection grey: Good video. grey: This snow looks good. grey: Oh, this is your own minetest game. grey: I see. Copenhagen_Bram2: Is it possible to make minetest remember passwords for servers? sfan5: not yet Copenhagen_Bram2: Hmm. It's a pain in the butt pasting passwords into minetest from my password manager (and also my mistake for increasing my security at the cost of my convenience for a game that won't hurt me much if my accounts get hacked) Copenhagen_Bram2: but then again, I was thinking, who knows what kind of secure thing someone might use minetest for Copenhagen_Bram2: I heard there was a library of leaked government documents or something kept on a minecraft server Krock: use the same password (1234) for every server so you don't need to remember it Copenhagen_Bram2: Suppose instead of passwords minetest servers could use some kind of asymmetric authentication? DusXMT: Also, copy-pasting passwords is a pretty bad idea in general, who's to say your clipboard isn't being inspected? oil_boi_: Whoa you're right :O There's a Minecraft server with a library full of banned journalism Copenhagen_Bram2: The keys could be saved in the client, requiring no passwords at all, and can optionally be encrypted with a password, backed up to a server (still encrypted), and maybe even generated/stored with a hardware device such as a trezor or a yubikey swedneck: oil_boi_: if you're thinking of the one i think you are, then that's really not true oil_boi_: Aw :( swedneck: that server had like 10 books of copied text lol swedneck: the whole thing was just a big shitty advertisement swedneck: (also pretty weird idea since you could just distribute data via torrent over the tor network or something..) Copenhagen_Bram2: I thought Tor wasn't good for bittorrent Copenhagen_Bram2: Don't you mean onionshare? oil_boi_: swedneck: I'm just going to keep pretending there's a Minecraft server in the CIA that they use to store all their files Copenhagen_Bram2: (also pretty weird idea since you could just distribute data via torrent over the tor network or something..) Copenhagen_Bram2: probably because in countries where the stuff in the library is censored, Tor is banned. But Minecraft isn't. The idea is that to censor the Minecraft server, they'd have to ban Minecraft. I suppose they could just censor the domain where the uncensored library Minecraft server is hosted though. swedneck: how do you ban tor though? Copenhagen_Bram2: by blocking public entry nodes and throwing anyone caught using a bridge into a gulag Copenhagen_Bram2: or by being north korea swedneck: don't think they're gonna care about blocking minecraft :P swedneck: probably already blocked Copenhagen_Bram2: yeah Copenhagen_Bram2: time to smuggle USB drives with minetest on them into north korea Copenhagen_Bram2: lol Krock: Copenhagen_Bram2: just use IPoAC. effective and fast Hawk777: Bandwidth’s decent, but the latency’s pretty awful. Krock: c55's VPS is overloaded again orbea: can someone point me to where the different groups are documented? Like "attached_node" and "oddly_breakable_by_hand" behalebabo: engine groups are documented here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1589 Copenhagen_Bram2: Krock: is "fast" a local term for "ping latency of hours"? orbea: behalebabo: thanks, how about the numbers? What is the difference between flammable = 2 and flammable = 3? orbea: i see, higher = faster rate? behalebabo: orbea: the flammable group is mod-defined and used only by the fire mod in MTG IIRC, I don't think the rating matters to the MTG fire mod orbea: ah, so the rating is no-op sometimes, thanks :) behalebabo: yeah, there's some other places it's used but the rating does seem not to matter Copenhagen_Bram2: Why aren't there any good villager systems for minetest? orbea: what is the current best one? Copenhagen_Bram2: When will procedurally generated houses be possible? DusXMT: Hmm, considering that there are trees, I wouldn't think it should be that difficult to make a mod that generates structures DusXMT: I'd investigate the tree code DS-minetest: I think, there are some mods that add things like villages DS-minetest: and there are already dungeons Copenhagen_Bram2: I'd like to see something like millénaire in minetest adfeno: Hi there, :D Whichi s faster in terms of checking if a mod is loaded: minetest.get_modpath or loping in minetest.get_modnames() to find the mod? sfan5: isn't that obvious Krock: checking the namespace Krock: results in a warning when it's not a defined global variable Krock: but it's the fastest DS-minetest: to avoid the warning use minetest.global_exists Krock: DS-minetest: but that's about the same speed as get_modpath Krock: i.e. slower DS-minetest: :O why so? sfan5: isn't global_exists pure lua? DS-minetest: afaik, global_exists simply uses rawget on _G Krock: oh yes it's pure lua. in this case: direct access > global_exists > get_modpath DS-minetest: I guess, the function call causes an overhead, or why the first >? rubenwardy: yes adfeno: So, minetest.global_exists is faster then? rubenwardy: no, it's more readable rubenwardy: `if minetest.global_exists("hi") then` vs `if rawget(_G, "hi") then` rubenwardy: does `if _G.hi then` work? DS-minetest: adfeno: if you check during load time, speed won't matter that drastically, probably. if you need to know whether a mod is loaded at runtime store the value in a local variable DS-minetest: the latter causes a warning, rubenwardy DS-minetest: the latemost* Copenhagen_Bram2: Is there any place I can download minetest world/maps, like mesecon puzzles, stuff like that? DS-minetest: Copenhagen_Bram2: yes, worlds subforum adfeno: Now, how are the mod names stored and referenced? For example if I want to check for ethereal, then do I use minetest.global_exists("ethereal") or minetest.global_exists("ethereal:") (notice the colon) ? DS-minetest: >the latter causes a warning, rubenwardy I might be wrong, oops DS-minetest: the global_exists is not a general solution DS-minetest: it only works if the mod created a global variable with the name you give to global_exists Copenhagen_Bram2: DS-minetest: oh neat Copenhagen_Bram2: But I'm having trouble loading the minetest forum Copenhagen_Bram2: When I try to load https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=12 I get a 504 error adfeno: DS-minetest: Hm, I see. DS-minetest: adfeno: just use minetest.get_modpath("etheral") (or minetest.get_modpath("etheral") ~= nil) adfeno: OK oil_boi_: Can you imagine a node monster with a model just made from blender bones which attaches node entities to it to build it's body :D DS-minetest: yes, I can Copenhagen_Bram2: I get the same error when trying to open forum.minetest.net. Is the forum down? Copenhagen_Bram2: At least minetest.net is still up oil_boi_: Copenhagen_Bram2: The forum is always down lately :L DS-minetest: Copenhagen_Bram2: the forums seems to have, currently - in the last few days - even harder, problems Copenhagen_Bram2: hmm oil_boi_: Wiki is having problems now rubenwardy: it's on the same maching rubenwardy: technical issues, celeron55 is on it Copenhagen_Bram2: oh neat oil_boi_: I'm gonna guess the isp is Elisa, I hear they're not so good sfan5: wrong guess sfan5: and ISP is largely irrelevant oil_boi_: I have an HP Z400 I can send him if the server is overloaded, you can raid0 up to 32 drives Copenhagen_Bram2: I wonder if you could host the server on a p2p protocol such as dat Copenhagen_Bram2: or zeronet Copenhagen_Bram2: then if someone else is seeding and the server goes down at least people can access a static copy oil_boi_: I just realized that is an awful idea during these events. This lockdown has my mind all over the place right now :T oil_boi_: Also Copenhagen_Bram2 yes you can oil_boi_: Just look at https://open.tube/ it's p2p youtube Copenhagen_Bram2: ooh it's a peertube instance texmex: oil_boi_: Bug alert! https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/issues/6 behalebabo: texmex: try minetest master branch texmex: Oh dang Copenhagen_Bram2: Are minetest connections to servers encrypted? Does it use SSH? rubenwardy: no rubenwardy: and no Copenhagen_Bram2: Hmm Copenhagen_Bram2: Are the passwords hashed? Or should I be careful about logging in to a minetest server over public wifi? Krock: not sure whether SSH supports UDP Copenhagen_Bram2: Minetest uses udp? rubenwardy: passwords aren't hashed, we use Secure Remote Password which is a proof-based protocol Krock: yes rubenwardy: it's more secure than password hashing because you don't need to trust the server Copenhagen_Bram2: Hmm DS-minetest: question: is the money here intended? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/86a0e991efff2fc616372f566a301352be28dae9/src/client/clientlauncher.h#L66 Copenhagen_Bram2: so how are we gonna store a library of censored journalism on minetest if we can't encrypt it? Copenhagen_Bram2: not only that but what if someone wants to make a secret minetest server that's a tor hidden service DS-minetest: maybe use csm to encrypt it in lua and send via modding channels Copenhagen_Bram2: hmm Copenhagen_Bram2: ooh i've also wondering if it'd be possible to have some kind of p2p server DS-minetest: and store it in meta of random nodes Copenhagen_Bram2: imagine a program that can access minetest maps from dat or ipfs repos, and then it runs a local server you can connect to Copenhagen_Bram2: heck, maybe i'll open grasshopper for the first time in a few months and try to learn some programming DS-minetest: I've found the introducing commit for the weird £: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/146f77fdb750833c649de7159a0833c398e14a4d#diff-f1adcc8d8014db9b09c711eb1c2e56c0R81 DS-minetest: but it doesn't seem to be intended Copenhagen_Bram2: and store it in meta of random nodes Copenhagen_Bram2: hmm that might be a good idea Copenhagen_Bram2: maybe even e2e encrypted chat could be modded in DS-minetest: oh, we have two `g_fontengine`s and some registered setting callbacks only operate on the inner one MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Builtin: Make item entities glow less (#9594) 13ea30b89 https://git.io/JvbQv (152020-04-04T19:27:30Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Revert collision tweaks #9365 and #9327 (#9591) 13d5c4412 https://git.io/JvbQf (152020-04-04T19:27:23Z) DS-minetest: edit_to_that_last_comment: oops, I'm wrong. TIL: if you have an extern static variable and don't initialize it directly, you can initialize it somewhere else without redefining it and you have to declare it there again BuckarooBanzai_: Copenhagen_Bram2: https://github.com/wangyu-/udp2raw-tunnel texmex: oil_boi_: I'm getting 5 FPS with snow >_< DS-minetest: :O now I know why the root gui element is a StaticText, it's minetest that does that weird stuff Extex: I've got a crafitem and I want it to last through craft recipes but get damaged each craft use. How would I do this? DS-minetest: I think, you need to use the on_craft callback Extex: Okay I'll look into it tnx DS-minetest: here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/ea30b89d3fcaf599a4d4c4e2f12f01a1d59f1072/doc/lua_api.txt#L4353 DS-minetest: I guess you have to modify the craft player inventory list Verticen: What would one do to have a decent survival challenge in Minetest? I've tried some of the mobs mods, but it seems that hostile mobs rarely spawn and they are somewhat easy to defeat. How to I make it more of a challenge? rubenwardy: CTF rubenwardy: :D rubenwardy: also, Exile Verticen: CTF? what is this? rubenwardy: it's buggy but is certainly a survival channel rubenwardy: CTF is a server - Capture the Flag rubenwardy: Exile is a game for Minetest rubenwardy: !mod Exile MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Exile 0.1 by Dokimi - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24334 Verticen: Oh. I guess I will give exile a try rubenwardy: Exile is PvE rubenwardy: player vs environment Copenhagen_Bram2: Wuzzy: Just found out about RealTest for Minetest 5. Since it's exactly like the original, do you plan on making a Realtest NG where you add stuff to it? Wuzzy: no Copenhagen_Bram2: oh okay Copenhagen_Bram2: I have to wonder, is it really that realistic to take down a tree by digging the dirt under it? sfan5: ever see a real life tree float? Copenhagen_Bram2: no but ever see someone dig a tree to the ground with their bare hands? Copenhagen_Bram2: trees have roots sfan5: right Copenhagen_Bram2: also i just made a dirt block float in realtest Copenhagen_Bram2: :o yrungr: realtest? Copenhagen_Bram2: yeah realtest Copenhagen_Bram2: it's minetest but more realistic yrungr: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2671 DS-minetest: "but" would imply that it's something like a fork, but it's a subgame yrungr: interesting. Copenhagen_Bram2: "but" would imply that it's something like a fork, but it's a subgame Copenhagen_Bram2: maybe it's a fork of the minetest subgame Wuzzy: no Wuzzy: there is no minetest subgame DS-minetest: you mean mtg? Wuzzy: probably Copenhagen_Bram2: yes i mean mtg Wuzzy: no it not a fork Wuzzy: at least i think so Wuzzy: its its own game with a collection of a FEW mods that were popular back in the days (like flowers) Wuzzy: what do you think about this game so far? Wuzzy: roots.... Copenhagen_Bram2 thats actually a great idea Copenhagen_Bram2: thanks Wuzzy: yes roots should be added when its about realism Copenhagen_Bram2: here's another idea http://www.native-art-in-canada.com/fellatree.html Wuzzy: its funny how tress just emerge out from the dirt with no roots at all DS-minetest: Wuzzy: btw. did you remove the bad changes that the other realtest ngs introduced? (like furniture stuff or ugly things) Copenhagen_Bram2: > Pat the mud onto the tree about three feet from the ground. Continue making mud and patting it onto the tree until you've girdled it to a height of about six feet with mud that is at least two inches thick and isn't showing any signs of falling off. Wuzzy: notice that this game is also very VERY old. as i said in the thread, its about preserving history Wuzzy: DS-minetest: no Wuzzy: hmmm actually Copenhagen_Bram2: so basically imagine in realtest you could pat clay blocks around a tree to stop it from burning all the way up, then build a fire under the tree Wuzzy: Your question cannot be answered because it contains a false assumption Wuzzy: DS-minetest: the game is not based on any of the other realtest redos, so i did not *remove* those additions. i never added them 😛 DS-minetest: ah, ok Wuzzy: I wouldn't even call "my" Realtest a "redo". it's just a resurrection for MT5 DS-minetest: what source did you take as base? Wuzzy: i am not 100% sure DS-minetest: huh? Wuzzy: but i think its from the downlod link in the 2012 thread by sda97 Copenhagen_Bram2: what do you think about this game so far? Copenhagen_Bram2: So far I've found that the best part of this game is your documentation. Back before Minetest 5, when Realtest was not a piece of history, but rather just another mod, I played it, and found it impossible to progress. But thanks to the readme and the crafting guide you've added, I think I'm about to have some fun. Wuzzy: ITS NOT A MOD!!!!!! Wuzzy: arrrgggh Wuzzy: 😆 Copenhagen_Bram2: sorry Wuzzy: this stuff always makes me angry 😀 Copenhagen_Bram2: just another subgame* Copenhagen_Bram2: btw I think we're calling subgames just games now DS-minetest: wasn't there a website with documentation (in the danwhatwasthisguysnameagain version)? Wuzzy: yes Copenhagen_Bram2: also how is mtg different from any other game? Wuzzy: DS-minetest: what? DS-minetest: finding evidence is difficult with the current state of the forum DS-minetest: Dan Duncombe was their name Wuzzy: It's most probably grabbed from this thread : https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2671 Copenhagen_Bram2: DS-minetest: try web.archive.org Copenhagen_Bram2: for accessing archived copies of the forum Wuzzy: and this thread in turn links to https://github.com/sda97ghb/realtest/ Copenhagen_Bram2: and maybe even a snapshot of the website that used to be up Wuzzy: Sadly, "my" realtest is not based on the original GitHub repo Wuzzy: it seems to be an older version of RealTest, oddly DS-minetest: thx Copenhagen_Bram2 Wuzzy: there's a download link in the 2012 thread that seems to give me a more updated version Wuzzy: apparently sda97 didnt bother to push these changes into the repo Wuzzy: but i am not 100% sure Copenhagen_Bram2: hmm Wuzzy: actually, "my" realtest is based on a years-old copy in ~/.minetest on my harddrive from which i have forgotten the origin 😀 Copenhagen_Bram2: lol Wuzzy: but I **think** its the official download Wuzzy: because it's very very close to the git repo Copenhagen_Bram2: how hard would it be to update your resurrection to a more recent version of realtest? DS-minetest: your pc is the official download server Wuzzy: what do you mean? o_O Wuzzy: there is no more recent version of realtest Copenhagen_Bram2: i mean make a more recent version of the old minetest compatible with minetest 5 Copenhagen_Bram2: relatively more recent Wuzzy: ????? Wuzzy: what do you want?! Wuzzy: minetest 0.4.17 is incompatible with minetest 5. Copenhagen_Bram2: I mean turn the original realtest github repo or the realtest download from the forum that's more updated, into realtest for minetest 5 Wuzzy: why? Wuzzy: it doesn't make sense Copenhagen_Bram2: and I mean if the forum download is more updated, since you said you're not sure Copenhagen_Bram2: hmm rubenwardy: I can update the forum topic Wuzzy: no please don't!! Wuzzy: you're destroying evidence Copenhagen_Bram2: ... rubenwardy: .. Copenhagen_Bram2: quick, use web.archive.org/save to protect your evidence from being destroyed Wuzzy: besides, i think you will fail anyway, given the flood of 500 internal server errors 🙂 rubenwardy: I'll update it to have [size=3]There's a [url=link]maintained version by Wuzzy[/url][/size] rubenwardy: that's it Wuzzy: ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Wuzzy: i thought you wanted to purge the links rubenwardy: I'm not particularly motivated to edit the forum now htough Wuzzy: surprise! Copenhagen_Bram2: why? Wuzzy: DS-minetest: what did you mean, ugly furniture? Copenhagen_Bram2: because maybe the original github repo or the forum download has some more features added than the copy you had on your hard drive Wuzzy: i have already made comparisons and i know the download is more up-to-date Copenhagen_Bram2: assuming your copy is older than the repo or the download and some features were added or bugs fixed since then Copenhagen_Bram2: oh okay Wuzzy: which is why i picked that one, not the repo Copenhagen_Bram2: can you resurrect the download to minetest 5 like you did your local copy? DS-minetest: Wuzzy: I think I saw some ugly detailed mesh stuff on some server or somewhere, I'm bad at remembering Copenhagen_Bram2: how hard is it to do so? Wuzzy: you're still not making any sense DS-minetest: so why am I not allowed to read again? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7573 Wuzzy: my realtest revival ***IS*** based on the forum download Copenhagen_Bram2: oh Copenhagen_Bram2: oh okay Wuzzy: lol Copenhagen_Bram2: i thought you were saying it was based on your copy in your ~/.minetest Wuzzy: hmmm Copenhagen_Bram2: ok so never mind then yay Wuzzy: maybe i should just download everything again to check if i missed any fancy features Copenhagen_Bram2: but now you must make a realtest NG where you add roots and make it so you have to pack clay around a tree and burn the base of it down Copenhagen_Bram2: like, a whole bunch of dirt and root blocks under trees that take 5 times as long to dig as the dirt blocks Copenhagen_Bram2: lol Wuzzy: no Copenhagen_Bram2: oh ok Wuzzy: i agree its a nice idea but i do not plan a RealTest NG or anything like that Wuzzy: i have other plans for now * Copenhagen_Bram2: loads https://web.archive.org/save/https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2671 to protect the evidence from being destroyed :) DS-minetest: Vanes saE has another version of realtest: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/realtest Copenhagen_Bram2: last commit was only 4 years ago hmm VanessaE: that's not "another" version VanessaE: it's just an old fork I made to add some random feature that I don't recall what Copenhagen_Bram2: hi vanessa VanessaE: hi, Copenhagen_Bram2: check the commit log, maybe it'll remind you Copenhagen_Bram2: and then make wuzzy add them DS-minetest: oops, the name was still in the linke DS-minetest: hi Copenhagen_Bram2: hi Wuzzy: I specfically picked the "real" RealTest and not one of the rehashes because i was not convinced any of them was really superior DS-minetest: SmallJoker's mod search showed me that dan's realtest version (which was initially not bad and used on a server) (and it was the version with the doc website, I think) had as source github / vanessa e / realtest VanessaE: if you're gonna base something on realtest, fork from THAT ^ one. Copenhagen_Bram2: you know, i think realtest is kinda like nodecore Copenhagen_Bram2: has anyone played nodecore? DS-minetest: can't find DS-minetest: there're just rabbits Copenhagen_Bram2: huh? lemme try Wuzzy: VanessaE: why Copenhagen_Bram2: and now my computer is slow to search Copenhagen_Bram2: sigh Copenhagen_Bram2: nodecore is right here https://content.minetest.net/packages/Warr1024/nodecore/ Copenhagen_Bram2: maybe the only similarity is that it takes more effort to take down a tree Copenhagen_Bram2: hmm... and the rarity of the ore DS-minetest: where does that new "contentdb" website thing link the link to the forum topic? rubenwardy: in the header VanessaE: Wuzzy: because it's a bit more up-to-date than the original realtest. I don't remember what all is different though rubenwardy: NodeCore doesn't have a forum topic, mind * DS-minetest: can't find it. DS-minetest: no forum topic?! rubenwardy: nope rubenwardy: warr1024 is against the forums Copenhagen_Bram2: how come? Wuzzy: wat. rubenwardy: \o/ rubenwardy: they're only on Discord DS-minetest: well, then it's not officially released Copenhagen_Bram2: maybe he prefers discord Wuzzy: booooo! DS-minetest: ahh rubenwardy: it is - ContentDB is the canonical place for releases now Wuzzy: yeah thats good enough Copenhagen_Bram2: hmm Wuzzy: but still. discord.. boooo! boooooooooo! Wuzzy: why have people no respect for freedom these days? 🙁 DS-minetest: I will never use contentdb if I can't git clone from there Copenhagen_Bram2: Wuzzy: nodecore has an IRC channel that's bridged to discord Copenhagen_Bram2: #nodecore rubenwardy: he used to be on IRC DS-minetest: I've tried to read the discord eula thing once, but wasn't able to. large wall of grey text on lite grey Copenhagen_Bram2: erm... but it's bridged to its own discord channel on the nodecore server that gets ignored Wuzzy: gosh. why make it so complicated? ... Wuzzy: why do people hate standardized, functional, tried and tested technologies so much and love proprietary, locked down monopolized solutions instead? 🙁 Wuzzy: its so frustrating DS-minetest: hmm, maybe advertising DS-minetest: and other people forcing you Copenhagen_Bram2: erm... but it's bridged to its own discord channel on the nodecore server that gets ignored Copenhagen_Bram2: scratched that, the IRC channel is active and I've been told in there that it's been re-bridged to the discord main channel rubenwardy: IRC really isn't user friendly at all Wuzzy: "other people forcing you" ... indeed. social pressure is a biggie Wuzzy: I think irc is as userfriendly as their clients DS-minetest: and organizations that weirdly entrust their life to other firms Wuzzy: but i agree current clients we have now could be better ... rubenwardy: having so many clients is also user unfriendly rubenwardy: given how none of the popular ones are user friendly Wuzzy: maybe we just need ONE high-quality irc client rubenwardy: the only user friendly clients are probably just IRCCloud (proprietary) and Matrix (not IRC) DS-minetest: high-quality means lightweight for me Wuzzy: i like my hexchat but i wouldnt give it to n00bs tbh 😀 Copenhagen_Bram2: What about kiwiIRC rubenwardy: Quassel would be good if you had cores-as-a-service rubenwardy: oh yeah, I forgot kiwiIRC was an actual client Copenhagen_Bram2: it is rubenwardy: DS-minetest: I use git to get mods rubenwardy: ContentDB is an alternative to the forums for finding mods, it's not an alternative to git Hawk777: Lots of IRC networks have webchat clients these days, too… seems like that might not be a bad starting point for less-technical users? Copenhagen_Bram2: and there's https://alternativeto.net/software/discord-app/ Wuzzy: i agree. webchat is a great start to get people started Copenhagen_Bram2: how do you guys feel about bridging chatrooms to multiple protocols? sfan5: there's no denying that discord is a much more user-friendly chat platform, IRC also has some inherent disadvantages by its design sfan5: but I don't think discord makes a great replacement for a proper website where you can download stuff sfan5: yet that's what many people use it for these days Copenhagen_Bram2: for downloading stuff? Wuzzy: it seems that's probably the killer issue yea 🙁 Copenhagen_Bram2: like, filesharing? Wuzzy: free software is losing HARD right now. and its because of usability sfan5: well just anything you'd visit a website for: finding information, download links, ... Wuzzy: wait people use discord just to post a download link? wtf Copenhagen_Bram2: well it's certainly easier (and free) to make a discord guild than to make a website rom1504: only reason why irc is not the popular kid these days is because nobody is making money out of it rom1504: all the other IMs are popular because of money rom1504: (messenger, whatsapp, telegram, signal, discord, slack, zoom, gitter, etc) Copenhagen_Bram2: i use signal, where exactly does signal get money? Copenhagen_Bram2: it's open source, no ads Wuzzy: i think money is a oversimplified explanation Wuzzy: its more complex than JUST about money rubenwardy: I've not seen anyone use discord to post a download link rubenwardy: Discord is an alternative to IRC rather than the forums Wuzzy: when discord becomes an "alternative" to IRC then minetest is dead to me lol Wuzzy: oops Wuzzy: i mean forums, not IRC rom1504: Copenhagen_Bram2: from investements in a company (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Messenger#Funding ) Copenhagen_Bram2: I've not seen anyone use discord to post a download link Copenhagen_Bram2: i'm a frequent user of discord (unfortunately), and they make channels just for holding messages with rules, introductions, download links in a few messages from the admins and they're locked so that nobody else can message in it rom1504: if it become a bit more popular, for sure they'll sell user info or something simila rubenwardy: that's not their main purpose though? rubenwardy: that's informational rubenwardy: they probably still have a website rom1504: Wuzzy: actually it's really just about money Wuzzy: i mean okay. i can understand why people use discord (or anything proprietary) cuz convenience rubenwardy: it's about time and experience, not money rom1504: money = you can pay for advertising of the app/protocol rubenwardy: money means you can hire time and experience Wuzzy: but what really gets me when they make it their ONLY means of commincation, therefore discriminating the FOSS zealots like me rom1504: and you can pay engineers to make the app look user friendly, etc Wuzzy: i mean, they bascially force you to use discord. if thats not an option for you, you're out rom1504: having an open communication protocol is a negative for an IM app that's supposed to make money because people can switch to another app at any other time rom1504: that's why big companies try to replace email as much as they can Copenhagen_Bram2: I wonder if any game theorists have figured out how to make free, open source software that's high quality and competitive benrob0329: Quite frankly, none of the FOSS solutions know who they're targetting. IRC is very old and very inconvienient to use across multiple devices, Matrix is a buggy POS with no development strategy, XMPP is a mess of competing standards, Tox is boarderline dead, Signal at least knows who it's for (encrypted SMS, but that doesn't help this), Rocket.Chat is close, but requires a website client rom1504: the good thing is, it's doesn't matter too much rom1504: you can use an irc client and a bunch of bridges rom1504: so it works for any new IM that come and goes Wuzzy: its interesting how e-mail still managed to survive the proprietary BS mostly benrob0329: E-Mail has had newer standards put into place to keep up with new needs rom1504: maybe the reason why email survives is because of the straight forward parallel (and usage) with physical mail rom1504: which is also pretty much an open standard benrob0329: But FOSS chat solutions tend to try to just copy proprietary products to a worse extent, when their made for more technical users who atually care about the politics rom1504: but yeah I agree it's interesting that it did survive benrob0329: Physical mail is not an open standard, like at all rom1504: really ? rom1504: it's just an envelope and paper inside Wuzzy: lets say its a bad analogy benrob0329: (in the US) There are multiple competing companies who all have seperate infrustructures, one of which (USPS) has special boxes that only they can use rom1504: it's enveloppe + adress written on it rom1504: yes I'm talking about classical letters rom1504: sending bigger things also doesn't work with email benrob0329: Shipping lables are different, postage is different, its all linked to whatever infrustructure is there and it's usually controlled by a single entity under penalty of law. benrob0329: It's really not an open standard, it's just a widely accepted one. rom1504: yeah ok rom1504: I guess my point is that the "email" concept is as easily understandable as the "mail" concept benrob0329: Yes rom1504: sending some piece of content to someone, that will take some time to be delivered Wuzzy: or maybe the explanation is much simpler. there's so much software that depends on email that you just cant replace with something else rom1504: whereas for IM there are lot of different ways to think about it Wuzzy: and i know for a fact there have been several attempts by corporate or government to replace e-mail by their own BS system Wuzzy: they all crashed and burned, THANKFULLY rom1504: and there is no physical equivalent, you cannot instantly talk with people over letters benrob0329: E-mail probably needs a good replacement (it's a mess to set up) but it's so ingrained in our infrustructure it's nearly impossile benrob0329: IM is most similar to verbal conversation benrob0329: Which is something most FOSS solutions ignore, the actual voice communication part of most services post-y2k rom1504: well here, with just that sentence you found an issue Wuzzy: In Germany there was/is something called "De-Mail" which is basically e-mail, but "made in germany" with its complete own, incompatible standard. basically perfect example of NIH syndrome rubenwardy: It's not actually that hard to set up it's hard to set it up and not be considered spam rom1504: if it's similar to verbal conversation: should it include audio ? rom1504: that's a divergence already benrob0329: That question has no nuance to it Wuzzy: long story short De-Mail was a clusterfuck of insanity and almost nobody in germany uses it rom1504: should it be 24/24, should it include smileys, should it include video, different rooms or just person to person, ... benrob0329: What kind of audio? In what context? To what extend? benrob0329: *extent benrob0329: Yes there are different needs, thats why you need to know your audience benrob0329: Discord knows their audience, that's why it's so popular rom1504: yeah but I mean I guess that's why there is a proliferation of IM stuff Wuzzy: just knowing your audience is not sufficient to be popular rom1504: each addressing slightly different needs benrob0329: IRC doesn't even know thier audience anymore, half the people want modern features and are pushing for it and the other half want it to stay in 1999 sfan5: pretty sure the former half has already moved on to e.g. matrix benrob0329: except Matrix has the same problem, but even worse benrob0329: I should know, I admin a few Matrix rooms sfan5: doesn't have those modern features people want? sfan5: +itr sfan5: it* Wuzzy: is there at least a way to teach people how rude it is to force people to use "" to coommunicate with them, and if you don't do that, you're out? Copenhagen_Bram2: it's enveloppe + adress written on it rom1504: what would be really awesome really would be a smart client with the union of all features and that could connect to almost all protocols. There has been a few try at this, nothing that works really well. But I don't lose hope that it'll happen one day Copenhagen_Bram2: and a US stamp you have to buy sfan5: no because "people" do not care about any (F)OSS/proprietary distinction Copenhagen_Bram2: i wouldn't call that open Wuzzy: sfan5: its not even about proprietary/foss Wuzzy: its about active discrimination . Copenhagen_Bram2: it's only 'open' if you stick it in an envelope and bring it to the recipient yourself benrob0329: Matrix has modern features, but their added in such a chaotic and ass-backwards mannor that I'm not sure who their targetting anymore sfan5: ok but consider this: "where's the problem? you can just sign up for discord and join, it's free." Wuzzy: if you're only supporting ONE particular service, you'Re excluding a lot of people (maybe unwillingly) Copenhagen_Bram2: ok but consider this: "where's the problem? you can just sign up for discord and join, it's free." Copenhagen_Bram2: but you have to give them your emails Copenhagen_Bram2: email* sfan5: if you want to answer that with a lecture they will already have stopped listening to you rom1504: Copenhagen_Bram2: yes maybe "open" is not the right word, but maybe something like "universal concept". the envelop + adress concept (+ paying yeah it works like that in physical word) is pretty much used in all countries benrob0329: Discord is just as much Voice Chat as it is IM Wuzzy: yeah and this makes me sad Wuzzy: i feel FOSS people are generally having a hard time Wuzzy: they are being discriminated and its not even really perceived as such Hawk777: And the postal system is a closed *network*, but the *client* choice is open: just pay and ship, nobody forces you to write on a certain type of paper, using a certain type of pen, or in a certain font. sfan5: people who care about these distinctions do have a hard time, yes benrob0329: FOSS support is at an all-time high, what are you talking about? Wuzzy: and those who discriminate probably dont do it "because they're evil" Copenhagen_Bram2: I'm starting to wonder where signal gets their funding sfan5: benrob0329: I think Wuzzy is more taking about "software freedom is important to me and I avoid proprietary apps and platforms" than "Open Source software is great, my employer just switched to Libre Office and we don't have to pay MS a dime" Copenhagen_Bram2: It's one open source messenger I can think of that is user friendly and is somewhat popular * Copenhagen_Bram2: looks it up on duckduckgo benrob0329: This all started with Nodecore being mostly on Discord, but it's also bridged to IRC and works perfectly fine there Copenhagen_Bram2: Huh, they got a $50 million from Whatsapp Copenhagen_Bram2: oh, from the whatsapp co-founder Wuzzy: sfan5: yea benrob0329: I learned that trying to convert your friends to a broken, buggy messenger that doesn't fit the user-case only results in pain. rubenwardy: whatsapp bought the signal protocol sfan5: s/bought/implemented/ ? Wuzzy: I think the open source argument of "open source is great" as in "it's great quality" or as in "its superior development" is complete BS Wuzzy: because just because you're "opening the source" does not make your software better quality rubenwardy: well, they paid money to them and implemented their protocol rubenwardy: I guess "buying" isn't accurate rubenwardy: also, citation needed Wuzzy: the open source advocates really need to stop using the quality argument, because its not true benrob0329: Signal's e2e encryption has become the new standard for IM rubenwardy: signal is really good rubenwardy: there are gems in the FOSS world rubenwardy: Mastodon is awesome Wuzzy: truth is, open source, free software and proprietary software. each of them can be super good or super bad, in terms of quality. benrob0329: You're never going to convince a normal person to use a brand new platform because its open source, just like you're never going to convince a chat room of randos that security is important for their conversation Copenhagen_Bram2: there are gems in the FOSS world Copenhagen_Bram2: don't forget the elephant in the room here, Firefox rom1504: and chromium Wuzzy: i think the big logic mistake in open source advocacy is the false belief that open source is seen as a "development methology". its not sfan5: yeah I was about to mention rubenwardy: oh yes, Firefox is great orbea: Copenhagen_Bram2: firefox, the worst brother excluding all the other ones... Wuzzy: i dont like chromium 🙂 its too googly sfan5: the problem with chromium is that it's more "you can look at the source and have fun with it" than real community-run FOSS Wuzzy: i have downloaded chromium but you REALLY notice the google influence in it rom1504: yes it's not open development sfan5: also raises the question of whether you can consider Firefox to be "real" FOSS, since Mozilla is the sole developer and owner Wuzzy: yes it is real foss Wuzzy: as i said, FOSS is not the same as development methology Wuzzy: you can run development like a cathedral and still be foss rubenwardy: does mozilla develop in public and accept external contributions? benrob0329: Fun fact: FF now routs DNS queries through Cloudflair by default rom1504: really benrob0329: rubenwardy: yes Copenhagen_Bram2: yeah FOSS doesn't mean you have to let others contribute, you can simply put the source code on github and not accept anyone's contributions if you like Wuzzy: which of the development models - cathedral or bazar ... is an ENTIRELY different discussion than proprietary vs libr Copenhagen_Bram2: and still be the dictator of your project Wuzzy: yea rubenwardy: it doesn't know, which is why there is a distinction between open-developed and closed-room developed FOSS software Copenhagen_Bram2: although someone might fork it Wuzzy: although i think dictator is a bit of a hyperbole 😉 rubenwardy: Android is closed-room developed benrob0329: I'm the dictator of my project, doesn't mean it's not FOSS. It just means I don't want design-by-democracy rubenwardy: they dump all the source code just before release sfan5: benrob0329: Cloudflare* and only in the US (currently) Copenhagen_Bram2: making your project open source does incentivise you to be a benevolent dictator though Copenhagen_Bram2: if you put spyware in there someone will call it out orbea: depends how well you hide it Copenhagen_Bram2: true orbea: an off by one error could be an exploit in some cases Copenhagen_Bram2: guess you'll have to embed the spyware in the binary Copenhagen_Bram2: or sneak it into the code Wuzzy: i think the reason why proprietary is still so popular is cuz many people are not aware of the actual proven abuses that the software does without them knowing Wuzzy: lots of proprietary software (not all!) spy on their users without them noticing Wuzzy: its not good when spyware has become socally acceptable benrob0329: Most people just accept it and move on orbea: which is exactly why these technologies continue to exist, despite abusing their userbase Copenhagen_Bram2: if only george orwell knew that we would be buying the telescreens benrob0329: These issues have been hashed out time and time again though, what are we trying to achieve with this conversation? orbea: its arguing to the choir :) Copenhagen_Bram2: maybe it's fun to sing along Copenhagen_Bram2: who else are we gonna talk about it with? it's easier to chat about it with you guys than debate it with someone else Wuzzy: oh how right you are Copenhagen_Bram2: also i haven't thought much about what you said about the proven abuses Copenhagen_Bram2: until you mentioned it Wuzzy: i mean, why would anyone sane buy Amazon Echo or that Google thingie and all the other smarter-than-you speakers? rubenwardy: Warr1024 says that both the IRC and Discord for #nodecore are equally as official Copenhagen_Bram2: because muh alexa turn my lights off benrob0329: Because digital assistants are handy, that's why Wuzzy: i think that these devices abuse you should be a wellknown fact today Copenhagen_Bram2: alexa: i'm sorry dave, i'm afraid I can't do that Wuzzy: 🙂 rubenwardy: I want to make my own IoT assistant benrob0329: People accept that most companies are spying on them, why do you think Facebook is still so popular? Wuzzy: "Alexa, do you work for the NSA" ... - "Do you think we're that stupid?" 🙂 Copenhagen_Bram2: mycroft, turn the lights off benrob0329: Mycroft is great Copenhagen_Bram2: mycroft: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that Wuzzy: Minecrosoft rubenwardy: I'd probably base it on mycroft Copenhagen_Bram2: *forks mycroft's software* Copenhagen_Bram2: Mycroft, sudo turn my lights off Wuzzy: Minetestsoft Copenhagen_Bram2: mycroft: yest master rubenwardy: you are not in the sudoers file. This incident shall be reported Wuzzy: reported to the cyber police. Copenhagen_Bram2: reported to the nintendo police Copenhagen_Bram2: they're coming: WiiU WiiU WiiU Wuzzy: don't get bitten by the nintendogs benrob0329: anyways that was my spuratic jumping into the conversation to give my 2 cents benrob0329: o/ orbea: player_transfer_distance controls how far the player nametags are visible? sfan5: yes orbea: thanks Copenhagen_Bram2: Oh btw is it possible to add metadata to players? I was thinking about making my first mod be one where there's a disease that gets spread from one player to another if they get within 2 blocks from each other. So can you set "infected = true" on a player? Copenhagen_Bram2: And can I call this mod coronatest? rubenwardy: !book metadata MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Storage and Metadata - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/storage.html rubenwardy: player:get_meta() Copenhagen_Bram2: oh neat MinetestBot: 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Add warning to set_sky() docs about unstable dawn and night sky colou… 1345a2ca0 https://git.io/JvFiT (152020-04-03T01:57:15Z) air: can mods detect if player is using free_move? Andrey01: forum.minetest.net works too slow lately Andrey01: To load a page it is necessary to wait even for minutes Andrey01: Maybe does it happen only to me? sfan5: it's not just you Andrey01: ah erlehmann: https://example.org oil_boi_: Is there a way to make a call after placing a node fails? oil_boi_: oh. on_place. Whoops * orbea: is confused why this would break the default spawn in ethereal... https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/76a08a7058429d51bd12e9bf5b1f90c569aff68f orbea: according to git bisect orbea: confirmed it manually, no idea what is going on... behalebabo: orbea: one side effect of that commit is that wool now depends on dye behalebabo: maybe check into that behalebabo: changing mod load order can sometimes break things sfan5: not necessarily with wool and dye, but that commit can cause mod load order to change entirely sfan5: yea orbea: ah oil_boi_: Why is forum.minetest.net feeling like it's being consistently ddosed? orbea: I added dye to depends.txt for ethereal and that seems to have fixed the issue, although the default spawn changes completely... Quiark: yeah the forum is more dead the before, does it need more resources or just cloudflare? orbea: also are beds supposed to override the spawn point even when the last used bed was removed by the player? orbea: oh, should of looked at the repo first https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/176ddba1761fe0d9a7031dae7873033e7f089084 oil_boi_: I wonder if there is a lightweight way to create weather erlehmann: oil_boi_, what do you mean with „lightweight“ ? oil_boi_: Like, maybe, I could make a model in blender which is a simple x and then duplicate +y coordinate it so it has a height of maybe 25-30, then create an entity table and handle an x by z value and spawn a weather column entity at each x by z coord, then use my mob spawning code which checks for a slice of a position under air (-32,32) checking light level to find the lowest node possible under light for that specific 2d oil_boi_: coord, and set the columns y coordinate to that, only updating an entity on dig or place node, or when a player enters into a new x or z node oil_boi_: Keep the entities that are in the x by z and delete the ones that aren't and spawn new ones, updating them accordingly to be as light as possible oil_boi_: But I do remember your awesome weather engine change, erlehmann, that was very nice erlehmann: oil_boi_, mine? o.0 oil_boi_: It wasn't you? Time to google erlehmann: oil_boi_, i don't think i ever merged one. i think there was a weather engine contribution by teddydestodes in … 2011 which i did not merge due to code quality issues. erlehmann: if you mean that oil_boi_: erlehmann: You're correct, I've never seen the youtube player even take this aspect ratio https://youtu.be/7foJg52ZFA0 sfan5: !title MinetestBot: sfan5: [Minetest-c55] Weather take II - YouTube oil_boi_: Thank you sfan5. I just thought it's incredible how the clouds actually "produced" the weather Ravise: Can someone help me with raycasting in CSM? The docs are not helpful much... and #minetest-mod-dev is quiet for a few hours Ravise: Basically I'm trying to get the position of the block game highlights rubenwardy: This is the official place to ask modding questions rubenwardy: What's your problem? Ravise: The documentation is a problem... It's quite unclear what to do and what do things return Ravise: I've slapped some source together, but it a) works only when you look directly down, b) work only if you can stand in the block (flowers & such) Ravise: https://pastebin.com/K3N22kFZ Ravise: so - camera:get_pos(), it returns the very position of the camera or do I have to sum it with camera:get_offset()? Ravise: do pointed_thing.over and pointed_thing.under point to the border of pointed_thing or do they point to neighbour blocks? Ravise: No help with the CSM's raycasting? sfan5: here's some code that I know for sure that it works: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/clientmods/preview/init.lua#L81-L87 sfan5: note that various csm camera apis are broken in 5.1.0, try a 5.2.0-dev build sfan5: hm actaully I think Raycast doesn't even work in 5.1 so you must be using a dev build already Ravise: I am... various things are broken in various way across 500:520-dev, so I mostly gave up on cross-version compatibility sfan5: yeah CSM is very much work in progress Ravise: I can still get the thing only when I'm pointing directly down... Do you know about some source using pointed_thing? Or some docs other than the .md supplied in minetest's git? Ravise: And it's still not 100% accurate, I can detect flowers, mese lamps & such, but I can't get e.g. default:dirt -_- sfan5: did you make sure to disable the csm restrictions? Ravise: There are none CSM restrictions on the server - according to admin sfan5: did you confirm that with get_csm_restrictions()? Ravise: doing it now Ravise: only load_client_mods = false, others are true Ravise: but it's weird, since my other client mods do run sfan5: that means you can load client mods but they can barely do anything useful sfan5: in particular lookup_nodes = true means your ability to read nodes from the world will be limited Ravise: Still - I can detect when I'm standing in flower -_- Is there some more docs on csm_restrictions? sfan5: open minetest.conf.example and look for csm_restriction_flags Ravise: Soo... with lookup_nodes = true and csm_restriction_noderange = 0 I can only get the node I'm standing "in", e.g. slabs, stairs, flowers, water Ravise: But even with lookup_nodes = true, if the csm_restriction_noderange was increased, I could look further sfan5: correct Ravise: on a less serious matter, why CSM api lacks something like {node=itemstring, pos={x,y,z}} = localplayer:get_pointed_node()? The values must be calculated in the core anyway (F5) and it's something CSMs could use often... sfan5: open a feature request on github Ravise: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7317 Ravise: got closed, as "you can do that with current API", no long term dev support... Ravise: so I hoped I'd get some reasoning - no offense to you :) sfan5: that discussion looks very focused on server-side mods, I see no reason why the pointed node should not be exposed for CSM Ravise: Alright, when I get some dead time, I'll make me a github and open feature request :) Ravise: Thanks sfan5 for your help sfan5: I might just open one myself texmex: Ravise: Please do orbea: is it just me or are sword invincible unless they are destroying leaves? sfan5: they do get wear if you punch something else orbea: so far from my testing they only lose endurance on leaves, grass, flowers and players, but not things like dirt or sand orbea: also having a problem with hitboxes with mobs_redo/mobs_monsters, but that might be unrelated... orbea: a friend lost a sword and pickaxe on me without me taking any damage... orbea: i figured out the hitbox problem, monsters and players only take one hit and then the hitbox stops registering damaga, but if you back up out of range and then back into range the hitbox will take one more hit. Extex: Anyone know what's up with the forums? Extex: Keep getting 500 internal error sfan5: kinda broken right now, it's being worked on Extex: Ok tnx Calinou: Wuzzy: I'm still around, I just don't spend much time looking at the wikis anymore Wuzzy: hi Wuzzy: maybe grant admin access to some trusted core devs if you dont have time for the wiki? Calinou: as far as I know, I can't do it myself Wuzzy: meh Wuzzy: oh btw i just noticed on the wiki mainpage the link is still to minetest 5.0 but we have 5.1.1 now and soon 5.2.0 Calinou: fixed :) Krock: fix it by not mentioning the version Krock: "Minetest Newest Stable" Wuzzy: good idea Wuzzy: so Calinou, one of the biggest problems we have in the dev wiki right now is the huge amount of outdated pages that were just ripped from lua_api.txt but never updated. Wuzzy: I propose to delete them all. specifically, all pages in the Types, Methods and Objects categories, and a couple more (basically everything which has just copied lua_api.txt content. I marked some of them with the UnofficialLua template) Wuzzy: obviously, i cannot delete pages myself, let alone mass-delete Calinou: Krock: alright Calinou: done MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Utility script to help with Weblate commit import 13fe21aa1 https://git.io/Jvbnu (152020-04-03T21:26:07Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update translation files 13b6d2c34 https://git.io/Jvbnz (152020-04-03T21:19:54Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04script@mt -> 03minetest/minetest: Update minetest.conf.example, settings_translation_file.cpp 136940e5a https://git.io/Jvbng (152020-04-03T21:19:36Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04comradekingu -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Indonesian) 136588481 https://git.io/Jvbn2 (152020-04-03T21:15:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Hungarian) 13e223d7c https://git.io/Jvbna (152020-04-03T21:15:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04comradekingu -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (French) 1311f4525 https://git.io/JvbnV (152020-04-03T21:15:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04siourdakisthanos@gmail.com -> 03minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Greek) 13965e202 https://git.io/Jvbnw (152020-04-03T21:15:52Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix failing build due to translation file error 13b8d29ab https://git.io/Jvbnh (152020-04-03T22:16:18Z) MinetestBot: oil_boi_: Apr-01 21:38 UTC iron ore fence?! :D oil_boi_: texmex: Yes! Everything is a fence now :D oil_boi_: MinetestBot: help oil_boi_: @MinetestBot Hi oil_boi_: Hmm I dunno how to use it :P oil_boi_: Also is this true? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=370403#p370403 orbea: when dying and using the ethereal mod with minetest-5.1.1 it causes the player to respawn in the same exact coordinates that they died. I reproduced this with only the default game and no other mods, any ideas? https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/ethereal orbea: i made an issue explaining it more https://notabug.org/TenPlus1/ethereal/issues/9 * orbea: grumbles at the error that vanishes without a trace just when I think I have a fix orbea: (not the same one as that issue I made) oil_boi_: orbea: Sometimes bugs are sentient oil_boi_: "Ghost bug!" 👻 cheapie: Looks like in about three hours now (if I remember the time right), the update for mesecons_carts that adds digilines-controlled rails should go live on the server that I play on most... should be fun to see what all can be built with that. oil_boi_: I say you keep running /kill until the mod breaks :D cheapie: Unfortunately I wasn't able to get said rails to switch cart directions under digilines control, but they are able to start/stop/accelerate/decelerate them as well as detect their speed and any players riding in them. oil_boi_: Very fancy, cheapie cheapie: If you think that's fancy then clearly you've never been on that server :P oil_boi_: I have no idea what the server is called cheapie: VanessaE's Dreambuilder creative server, daconcepts.com:30000 cheapie: There's a survival one with more or less the same mods on port 30001. oil_boi_: that was nice * cheapie: nods cheapie: There are probably better servers for building some things, but I imagine I'd probably be correct in saying that we have the most technology there. * oil_boi_: wonders how to make a server absurb: irc genocide! absurb: freenode aught to be held responsible for these war crimes! Unit193: Please note that 'Quit:' means it's a quit message. Aka, Matrix quit everyone off the network. Ingar: it's a Holy Cleansing of matrix users oil_boi_: Holy shit freenode is getting ddosed oil_boi_: What makes a mob good? oil_boi_: Like, quality wise rubenwardy: oil_boi_: interactions are believable and responsive, not an eyesore, not an ear sore rubenwardy: Mob redo is not a good mobs mod, the interactions are terrible rubenwardy: Mobkit is promising - the interactions are nice, but the code quality isn't oil_boi_: hmm very interesting rubenwardy oil_boi_: I also noticed the dtime varies based on how the player's moving on the level I'm utilizing it oil_boi_: maybe I'm missing a way to set the mob's yaw smoothly without resorting to automatic_face_movement_dir rubenwardy: Entity yaw is smoothed in 5.0 and above oil_boi_: rubenwardy: from what I'm seeing with set_yaw it is a literal instantanious action, aka, jittery when used to turn an entity rubenwardy: It's smoothed on the client though rubenwardy: So the client will rotate smoothly to the yaw oil_boi_: Maybe it's broken from the github version I'm using? rubenwardy: If you're calling set yaw a lot, then you won't benefit from the smoothing so much oil_boi_: Will automatic_face_movement_max_rotation_per_sec smooth the yaw beyond what I can do server side? oil_boi_: Also rubenwardy either way, if I called it when the mob changed direction state or if I'm utilizing it as a literal translation to smoothly turn the entity it does not seem to make a difference oil_boi_: Very frustrating :< oil_boi_: Yes it's very strange, that dtime seems to sleep when you stop moving then goes full speed when you're moving, I guess no one though anyone would utilize dedicated server step at 1e-05 oil_boi_: But that's alright, time to work around it :D oil_boi_: What is vector.angle used for? Quiark: ok I fixed my REPL plugin Quiark: and here's a little demo too https://asciinema.org/a/315964 MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ryvnf -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix texture distortion for flowing liquids (#9561) 133d6b55d https://git.io/JvFWW (152020-04-02T17:24:35Z) adfeno: Hi there, how do I make an edible item store its original recipient/vessel/container and when eaten replace that edible item with the container? behalebabo: adfeno: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4998 you can use `on_use = minetest.item_eat(value, "original_vessel")` adfeno: What if for example, I'm using an item group as original vessel? adfeno: In the recipe, I mean behalebabo: then you'll probably need to use minetest.register_on_craft to save which vessel you're using in the output metadata, then have a custom on_use function that restores it behalebabo: *in the output itemstack metadata adfeno: Hm I see. adfeno: I asked because I know a server which uses xdecor, and this mod adds xdecor:bowl while the server already has ethereal:bowl, with same recipe for both. xdecor:cauldron however explicitly expects xdecor:bowl to give player a soup, which when eaten gives xdecor:bowl. adfeno: That outcome I'm trying to avoid, or at least have xdecor:bowl_soup a way to store the original member of group:food_bowl which was used to take soup. behalebabo: yeah, that's a bit tricky; it might be better to merge ethereal:bowl into xdecor:bowl through some mod modification adfeno: Hm, I think I know a way. adfeno: How do I convert nested Lua tables to stirng? rubenwardy: `minetest.serialise(tab, true)` or `minetest.write_json(tab)` rubenwardy: former supports recursive types rubenwardy: latter is more standard sfan5: serialize* rubenwardy: bloody americans rubenwardy: I'm currently implementing a class called "ChunkSerialiser" rubenwardy: ok, that's a lie, I'm currently shitposting on reddit rubenwardy: but I was writing a class called that adfeno: rubenwardy: As a non-native English speaker, I always confuse "former" and "later", so by "former" you mean "minetest.write_json(tab)" ? Krock: former = 1st, latter = 2nd rubenwardy: former is before = minetest.serialize(tab) rubenwardy: latter is the later = minetest.write_json(tab) rubenwardy: former, beFore rubenwardy: latter, later rubenwardy: well, of those the latter is the more useful and correct way to remember adfeno: Oh I see :D adfeno: How do I make a new ItemStack but not add it to inventory, or how to refer to that recently added ItemStack? I want to add some metadata to the new ItemStack. rubenwardy: `local stack = ItemStack("default:dirt")` adfeno: If ItemStack:set_metadata() is deprecated, how should I set metadata ? sfan5: use the metadata object returned by get_meta() rubenwardy: ~book storage rubenwardy: !book storage MinetestBot: rubenwardy: Storage and Metadata - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/storage.html rubenwardy: specifically the meta data section GreenXenith: oh, IRC MinetestBot has that command now GreenXenith: :] sfan5: it does since 2 years rubenwardy: it had it before MinetestBot on Discord existed, GreenXenith GreenXenith: damn ok rubenwardy: citation needed GreenXenith: let's fact check GreenXenith: darn GreenXenith: 6 months before rubenwardy: actually, it definitely had it first because I made the API for the IRC MinetestBot rubenwardy: the feed being https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/sitemap.json rubenwardy: *API adfeno: hm, strange, for some reason the recipe I'm making works in regards to replacing the vessel/empty container with liquid/soup, but in the same nesting fails to set metadata just for every itemstring in the same group but one. rubenwardy: I need to fix that double slash at some point rubenwardy: adfeno: are you setting the stack back? GreenXenith: thankfully you gave the API a lot more functionality than IRC MB ever used rubenwardy: what callback are you in? rubenwardy: GreenXenith: the IRC bot uses all of it for searching, but doesn't display all of it adfeno: I'm trying to improve xdecor:cauldron, I'll give a paste link with my improvements so far GreenXenith: Hm, maybe I oughta take notes from MinetestBot IRC commands adfeno: rubenwardy: http://adfeno.mooo.com:8080/P%c3%bablico/Software/xdecor%202020-04-02.zip adfeno: The most significant change is in cooking.lua adfeno: Other files weren't touched adfeno: I meant /src/cooking.lua adfeno: I expect to take a soup from xdecor:cauldron rubenwardy: can't see any immediately obvious issues - have you tried using print statements to make sure things are called? adfeno: And that soup to carry a metadata called "container" containing the ItemString (string) of the original container. adfeno: rubenwardy: I did try sending some stuff to chat, particularly so far I printed the container (line 246), but for some reason, every soup that was not taken with xdecor:bowl returns nothing (while those taken with xdecor:bowl return this itemstring) adfeno: Hm, I think I found the bug adfeno: OK. That was solved, now the soup has the metadata related to the container, regardless of the container used adfeno: Now I wonder, how to make the custom on_use function for minetest.register_craftitem("xdecor:bowl_soup", .. , work in such a way that the container is returned to the player inventory. adfeno: What does on_use should return? Extex: itemstack adfeno: Hm, OK adfeno: Strange, the on_use for the custom xdecor:bowl_soup I made doesn't seem to work, even if I put "return " before minetest.item_eat . Extex: Return has to be at the very end of the function behalebabo: adfeno: look up minetest.do_item_eat behalebabo: minetest.item_eat is a function that returns a function to be used for on_use behalebabo: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/478e7532985320c5ddacc0280f77b67956715a65/builtin/game/item.lua#L503 adfeno: Ah-ha! It worked :D adfeno: Thank you for everything :D oil_boi_: texmex: I think I just created the worst menu music possible oil_boi_: texmex: https://youtu.be/PdA_pZUVors OOPS orbea: hi, how is the hbsprint mod supposed to work? I can't find any documentation on how to sprint. I see the sprint hudbar, but that seems it. orbea: with minetest-5.1.1 orbea: oh, its disabled with the fast priv... orbea: now the player sprints for a mere moment before slowing down, but the sprint hud still is drained... oil_boi_: I like when you're working on something in Windows 10 and explorer just crashes completely Elouin: Is there a way to let some server command run every like 24 hours? Like cron for minetest. oil_boi_: Yes: oil_boi_: timer = 0 oil_boi_: on globalstep do timer = timer + dtime then check if timer > 60*60*24 and if it is run command and then reset timer Elouin: Ok cool. But where do i have to put this? minetest.conf? oil_boi_: Oooooh, I thought you were talking about making a mod. I'm not sure if you can do that in the .conf oil_boi_: Elouin: what are you trying to do? Elouin: oil_boi_: i want to run clearobjects at least once a day, since mobs are still pretty buggy in mineclone 2 and tend to pile up in the water... texmex: oil_boi_: Lol it’s quite eclectic. Slow chords then… PACPACPACMAN texmex: oil_boi_: TNT arrows are nice but also, how about rope arrows? oil_boi_: Elouin: Here, I wrote a mod just for you, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24491 oil_boi_: texmex: Yeah I was laughing when I was making that in LMMS, the real one sounds quite a bit better and I tested it in the main menu for 5 minutes and the tone changes so much it does not get irritating Elouin: oil_boi_: thanks. oil_boi_: Elouin: No problem oil_boi_: texmex: Rope arrows are a great idea, I'll have to put that in the readme as an idea cause I'm working on small stuff today to take a little break Elouin: man, i really have to check out modding. Its pretty awesome that the modding API looks that simple. Elouin: or not the api, but the few mods ive looked into alle where super simple scripts for what they where doing oil_boi_: Elouin: You can make a mod that prints "hi :D" every 5 seconds or you can make a mod that calculates the mutations of rna during cell division and everything in between Elouin: yes, i know. what i meant was that its seems pretty easy to mod minetest compared to mos other games oil_boi_: Ohhh yeah, you should see Minecraft's modding, it's hilarious. Download forge, go through the forge api, technically break the Minecraft license because you have to copy some of it's code, then define a whole bunch of stuff in java that shouldn't even be necessary, and repeat until the java vm crashes :D Elouin: I once wanted to make a Minecraft mod and noped the **** outta there already when reading the docs. xD Elouin: Java itself isnt my favorite, but combined with the way of minecraft modding its, awful. cheapie: Just finished this, if anyone might find it useful and wants to try it out: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/mesecons_carts/ cheapie: It extends the minetest_game carts mod with mesecons-controlled power and brake rails (both available in normal and 2x strength), detector rails, and also start-stop rails like some other carts mod (I think it was boost_cart or something?) had. Elouin: oil_boi_: just because its the first time using mods on a server for me, i just have to put "load_cron_clear_objects = true" into the worlds.mt after i put the mod under $MINETESTDIR/mods/ right? cheapie: Elouin: Normally I recommend just putting mods in the "worldmods" directory inside the world itself - more flexible, less confusing, and no configuration needed. cheapie: But yes, assuming the mod is called cron_clear_objects, what you said should work too. Elouin: cheapie: ohh, that also works? Nice. Is there doku on that? The only place mentioning mods on servers i found was: https://wiki.minetest.net/Help:Setting_up_a_server/Debian cheapie: Elouin: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minetest/master/doc/lua_api.txt cheapie: Listed under "mod load path" Elouin: thanks. so since i run a game i would put it in "/game/mods/"?! Elouin: That should be mentioned in a section here: https://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server Elouin: can everyone edit the wiki? cheapie: No idea what the policies are there, but honestly I've never found the wiki to be very useful. Elouin: me neither. and thats where i think many people go to for information on mintest related things... Elouin: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10473 ahh there. oil_boi_: Elouin: What? That mod automatically does it for you. You put that in your mods directory or into the game/game_your_using (Minetest-game) directory under mods oil_boi_: Elouin: What operating system are you using? oil_boi_: Mods have 2 possible directories $Minetest/mods (which makes them globally usable for each game) and $Minetest/Games/game_your_using/mods cheapie: oil_boi_: And the easy one, $minetest/worlds/whatever_the_world_name_is/worldmods oil_boi_: That's a thing now? AMAZING! oil_boi_: That's super usefull :D cheapie: It's been a thing for ages :P cheapie: Actually I think it predates the "put them all in one place and enable them somewhere else" nonsense. Elouin: oil_boi_: server is FreeBSD. Elouin: okay. so no need to put it in the worlds.mt as mentioned in https://wiki.minetest.net/Help:Setting_up_a_server/Debian ?! oil_boi_: easy thing to do Elouin, run the server, go to .minetest in your home directory, make mods dir, put in mods dir, or go to the worlds dir in .minetest find your world, make dir /worldmods put it there Elouin: Okay, nice. This should go to the wiki! cat29: hello cat29: hi QwertyDragon: o/ adfeno: Hi there, how to debug Minetest language selection for node names if making a terminal/console server? adfeno: I find it strange that despite setting the language code in client's "all configuration" menu, upon joining the server, sand is still typed as "Sand" instead of being localized. sfan5: client version? server version? which game? adfeno: minetest_game. server 5.1.1 and client 5.1.1. adfeno: I'll try to check the build time flags (if the game exposes such upon startup). sfan5: buildtime flags on the server don't affect this sfan5: not sure but I think the client needs gettext even if those translations function independently from it sfan5: is the mainmenu on the client correctly translated as well? adfeno: By the way, I forgot to tell, I'm trying to test Minetest's new translation. I'm not using mods such as IntLLib. adfeno: sfan5: The main menu is translated correctly sfan5: are you sure that minetest_game actually has translations for your target language? adfeno: Hm, gess. adfeno: It seems to be absent adfeno: It has de, es, fr and it. OK, sorry, I thought it had that already sfan5: if the translation has been added in the meantime you could copy the files from a 5.2.0-dev MTG adfeno: sfan5: Thanks for the information and for the help. :D adfeno: I jumped into conclusions too early (I wrongly assumed that 5.1.1 had a translation for pt-BR). I'll see how 5.2.0-dev is and if there is need to, I'll send a patch by email. adfeno: Or by forking and requesting a merge to some developer online here. sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2559 this pull request includes a pt_BR translation sfan5: give it a try if you want adfeno: sfan5: Hm, Oh, OK :D Elouin: can i put players and world into the same db in postgres? sfan5: yes, the table names do not clash sfan5: I don't know whether this is explicitly supported though Elouin: okay, great. i think the error message is bugged. when migrating player database without the player connection string it still errors for the world connection string. sfan5: oh in fact Elouin: it says that "pgsql_connection" is missing even though "pgsql_players_connection" Elouin: is missing sfan5: it doesn't support putting that data in separate databases sfan5: the "pgsql_connection" is used for both map and player data Elouin: but it only works with "pgsql_player_connection"... orbea: any ideas what is up with hbsprint? https://github.com/minetest-mods/hbsprint/issues/21 sfan5: oh maybe it does sfan5: ...this code is all over the place sfan5: you are right, the error message is misleading sfan5: orbea: my guess: it doesn't consider the node(s) below you walkable and stops the sprint orbea: is sand/cobblestone not walkable? sfan5: no it definitely is orbea: the spawn in this test map is all desert so im not sure that is the problem orbea: idk lua that much, but could it only register the use button is pressed for a moment and is not being held down? orbea: but then it wouldn't drain the stamina... Elouin: is the server having issues atm? board is loading super slow and giving different 500 errors sometimes. QwertyDragon: the forum is slow I noticed QwertyDragon: internet is wonky these days :| orbea: sfan5: I figured out the issue, there is some incompatiblity with the pova mod I was testing, I guess I will just remove that https://notabug.org/tenplus1/pova sfan5: pova has the same functionality as player_monoids and is by defintion incompatible with it orbea: ah, my mistake orbea: i was testing it because it was in the 3d_armor depends.txt, I suppose I didn't understand it means player_monoids or pova? sfan5: well certainly not both sfan5: if 3d_armor supports player_monoids then just that one orbea: yea, that is what im doing, thanks :) Extex: How would I get a list of player who have a priv? (Regardless of weather they are on or not) sfan5: look into the auth handler Extex: How do I use it? Extex: It's seems pretty undocumented sfan5: there is a section in lua_api that describes it Extex: Oke Extex: Uhh Extex: What does it do? And how do I use it? texmex: !tell oil_boi_ iron ore fence?! :D MinetestBot: texmex: yeah, sure, whatever MinetestBot: Wuzzy: Mar-30 13:43 UTC you might want to consider putting devtest on ContentDB Wuzzy: Ummm, no. Devtest should go right into Minetest and replace [minimal]. I also posted a PR. Wuzzy: I also hope that once Devtest is included, they will adopt a policy to keep it up-to date when new features are added Wuzzy: current [minimal] has been dangerously neglected in the past nephele: I will also make automatic planting with machines and so, but a bit of organic growth would be a nice touch i think nephele: you know, that the world feels a bit alive, changes a bit even without interaction oil_boi_: Grass growing, plants spawning, mobs that grow and interact, trees spreading, water eroding, etc etc etc oil_boi_: There are so many ways to make the world come alive it's not even funny nephele: water eroding could be a bit expensive, but possible nephele: I suppose simply having a bit of a dmg variable that gradually messes with surounding blocks would be fine too nephele: stone -> gravel -> sand -> nothing then gradually nephele: oil_boi_, well, i will do atleast some of that nephele: i think trees growing would be simple in that i do, an abm for leaves, then find a trunk, aim away from it and up a bit, shoot a sappling, and where it lands plant a sappling node nephele: and have that grow assuming the conditions are nice oil_boi_: Simple, flowing water, on_create, start timer, on timer, check for dirt below, erode, repeats, use math.random(20,50) to make less expensive, oil_boi_: That way spawned flowing water has no cost nephele: yes but then rivers don't erode anything :) nephele: i thought more like a low chance abm could work too nephele: can always make those optional anyway nephele: I think i may work on erosion :3, but i don't even have water yet :D nephele: I think plants spreading instead of only going "im ripe please harvest me" would be nice too swift110: cool nephele: flowers spread in mtg too nephele: Now i have some flax :3 nephele: How do i overide the capabilities of the bare hand? nephele: found it nephele: Ah, yes, have my hatchet :3 search_social: hello, is there a way to /dump my current coordinates and a name to a text file? possibly with a client-side mod? oil_boi_: Oh crap, I just found a bug: Updating the nametag attributes resets their animation, breaking it :O :O :O oil_boi_: Err an entities animation oil_boi_: I wonder if anyone realized that raycasting can be used to create hitscan guns yet :L oil_boi_: WHAT? theres an intersection normal :O :O You can create bullet holes! rubenwardy: <f44336oil_boi_> I wonder if anyone realized that raycasting can be used to create hitscan guns yet :L rubenwardy: This is already done by shooter, and probably other mods oil_boi_: It's so weird you said that because I literally just finished prototyping one oil_boi_: The bullet holes make it super fun texmex: Do you mean something like this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=23365 oil_boi_: texmex: https://youtu.be/K2_jL_EZ5Sg oil_boi_: I have no idea why the gun sounds like that in the video :( texmex: Oh nice texmex: Only odd thing is particle coming from the camera centerpoint while gun is down left. oil_boi_: I'll be fixing that tomorrow, was a super basic test to see if I can do ricochets and bullet holes only when the "bullet" hits something oil_boi_: The smoke was kind of "I wonder if this is even possible" and it was oil_boi_: I really want to put in bows and arrows, but I guess I ran before I walked texmex: In this case, gun is walking :) texmex: When doing arrows I think a higher velocity than MC would be nice. MC arrows are cartoonishly slow, no? oil_boi_: texmex: that's a good idea, let me start the prototype for it and get your thoughts on it texmex: Sure oil_boi_: texmex: can't find a way to stop the switching items hand animation from happening :L oil_boi_: I wonder if there is a way to change the inventory image while the game is running! oil_boi_: texmex: the prototype version 1 is done, feel free to give it a try, you're gonna have to do /giveme bow:bow_empty oil_boi_: I don't have string in the game yet, spiders and hemp will be used for that texmex: Currently you can't stop the switch animation from happening. Check out any compass mod for a method of switching inventory image: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17881&p=366660 texmex: oil_boi_: love it! oil_boi_: :D oil_boi_: Holy crap I found the creeper sound https://freesound.org/people/Ned%20Bouhalassa/sounds/8320/ oil_boi_: Also texmex, is this death animation too brutal? https://youtu.be/mgAkty4EQKM texmex: oil_boi_: No, it's excellent texmex: Fighting will be nicer when we have #9523 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9523 -- Add a pointing-at-entity indicator to the HUD and disable entity selectionboxes by default by LoneWolfHT oil_boi_: That has to be one of the best changes I've ever seen in this engine next to voxelmanip and raycasting oil_boi_: I was literally going to make the mobs not pointable to and then use a raycast when you punch towards them to get around the collisionbox visual texmex: Agreed! texmex: Did you look at w_api by any chance? texmex: I think the fighting can become more interesting this way. One should not be able to select a specific pig when swinging a sword at a packed herd of them. Rather, every pig within swing range would get some, or the first pig in within the swing motion. texmex: Because swords≠tweezers! texmex: And with raycast-based fighting/etc, one can imagine a wider set of movements such as spin attacks, spells etc. oil_boi_: texmex: I am now, I had no idea we had math.deg :O from what I am seeing you're checking the whole hotbar oil_boi_: And yes you're right, that's a very good idea to be able to hit more mobs based on their distance and if they're within sight of you oil_boi_: Gotta be an easy way to calculate a 70 degree angle based on the yaw of your camera then use vector.distance to create a pie shaped slice of mobs to hit oil_boi_: I'm also tempted to make the mob sleep in a bed too, that'd be hilarios oil_boi_: hilarious* oil_boi_: I'll do that in a few hours though nephele_: Personally i am a bit annoyed that if you do that fancy stuff you can't animate your weapon properly, and it will never look the same as in third person nephele_: tf2 had a nice mode to make your third person player model the first person one, that was fun to play with Elouin: someone here experienced with compiling on freebsd? i get error wich seem to have smth to do with jsoncpp nephele_: Well, i did compile it on FreeBSD, so i guess i have some? should atleast post a log contining the error (and maybe what CMAKE options you used, i.e ccmake can display that nicely) Elouin: nephele_: https://bin.disroot.org/?85018bc33248e581#2nwHyaVFYtDiw3xYM9Mf7ybwc5FAuDSDL7VWC9gTbEXY nephele_: oof, i wonder what happened to the days of plaintext pastes... let me boot up firefox Elouin: for cmake ijust turned off gettext and "-DBUILD_CLIENT=0" sfan5: are you using -DENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP=1? if not, try that sfan5: and if yes, try disabling that nephele_: (why i had asked for cmake options^) Elouin: added -DENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP=1 its running nephele_: :) Elouin: takes some time till it gets to the critical point, lets see... Elouin: thanks for the suggestion so far Elouin: nephele, sfan5: worked, thx. :) adfeno: Hi all, is there a mod that allows to manage areas in which any entity cannot spawn? adfeno: I help a server which has hostile mobs which keep trying to pass through the walls of buildings. sfan5: ideally the mob mod should provide such functionality nephele: I don't think there is anything that prevents /all/ entities from spawning, and realistically you don't want that either nephele: it would prevent item drops from working for instance, or text on signs adfeno: Hm, good points. texmex: oil_boi_: Yeah, and maybe the weapon swing visualized as a quick animation like in MC to really show the reach and angle of the weapon juangh: Hello there guys. I need your help. juangh: Greetings from Spain. juangh: I'm installing a new minetest server in my own VPS and i has it working but, i want to use old maps since 2014 that are avaible in the minetest forum in this link: juangh: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9440 juangh: This maps are really amazing...I'm using the 5.1.0 server version... juangh: I was looking for a solution in the forum and still now I don't fund nothing... juangh: Can any one help me? I just need a url or a path where i could read and study the solution... rubenwardy: it should just work? rubenwardy: what error do you get? juangh: When I "installed" it and i get access, I fall down and die, every time... rubenwardy: ok, so do /grantme fly,fast rubenwardy: then press K rubenwardy: to fly rubenwardy: then land on the ground rubenwardy: and optionally revoke fly: /revoke singleplayer fly,fast juangh: yes yes, i already know that, but, i mean: Is it normal? that old maps do that? I will try to get fly privileges... rubenwardy: it's not related to it being an old map rubenwardy: but due to the spawn position being wrong rubenwardy: because it won't be set in the map Krock: and because the fall protection after respawn was removed Krock: that happened somewhen in 0.4.16 or so Krock: there were up to three seconds of damage immunity juangh: mmmmmm, excelent, that make sense... juangh: i will test the fly option now juangh: I can't get the privileges to fly...but now, i don't die! juangh: But... juangh: I just see a big, really big wall, and just the grass Krock: it's out of control juangh: I use the Erberor maps juangh: if you can/wish test it, that will be really helpful for me...can I share one ip here? juangh: I will read the rules of the channel... rubenwardy: sure rubenwardy: although, I won't be juangh: Already readed...Excelent... juangh: Thanks rubenwardy, just in case that someone could access...and see what happen there... juangh: 81.169.162.102 and 30000 port [ ;-) ] Ingar: time out juangh: try it again, i made me with the full privileges...i'm sorry...try it again Ingar: I spawn in void or something juangh: I will give you full privileges juangh: Ingar try it now MinetestBot: 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix GUI element click-through by changing visibility (#9534) 13d7825bc https://git.io/Jv5M8 (152020-03-31T17:34:42Z) juangh: Thanks Ingar ;) Ingar: np Ingar: at the very least the connection works Ingar: you'll probably have to move spawn in those worlds, not sure if that is possible sfan5: you can set a static spawnpoint in the config juangh: yes yes, that is the idea...i want to "fix" or adjust that maps to the server... juangh: sfan5 that could be an excelent solution, yeah! juangh: I found a "problem" with the map, it is really big, i will try to "see things" and then i will configure the spawnpoint... juangh: Beatiful! [ :o ] juangh: I made it!! juangh: I am really excited...i am making a huge discovering.... Extex: What? juangh: i "made" it work: https://static.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1350/image_5882540.jpg juangh: it is amazing! juangh: I must to say that i was wrong, the maps are not "break", it work perfect, I just need to make me with fly privileges to keep alive... juangh: I implement now the "Imperial City". It is a wonderful job...really amazing! juangh: my mind has been blown just thinking that someone made that map, node by node, or cube by cube. It is a wonderful gift... Extex: Probably an architect Extex: XD Talkless: Hi Talkless: I'm on Debian Sid Talkless: I have this file: Talkless: $ cat /etc/systemd/system/minetest-server.service.d/override.service Talkless: [Service] Talkless: Environment=MINETEST_SUBGAME_PATH=/opt/minetest Talkless: but Talkless: sudo systemctl show minetest-server@minetest.service | fgrep Env Talkless: shows nothibg :/ Talkless: after systemctl daemon-reload Talkless: what I'm doing wrong..? sfan5: that override is for minetest-server.service not minetest-server@minetest.service Talkless: oh, let me try... sfan5: "systemctl edit" supposedly makes this easy and does the right thing Talkless: /etc/systemd/system/minetest-server@minetest.service.d/override.service does not help :/ Talkless: ok I'll try edit... Talkless: OK it works now, I don't see the difference but.. thanks sfan5! :) sfan5: you can check where systemd edit saved the file, that'll be the correct path Talkless: Yeah seems the same.. well whatever :) Talkless: Now about these "games", like Lord of the Test for exampe, could it be that it's limted for single player for whatever reason? Talkless: should it "work" with friends in multiplayer server ? Krock: yes Krock: games are just a bunch of server-run mods Krock: hence if the developer was skilled enough, it'll be multiplayer-capable Talkless: and static_spawnpoint = (0, 0, 0) will make as all spawn in the same spot? Krock: yes, if you use the builtin spawn functionality Krock: it also enables "/spawn" defined in minetest_game/mods/spawn Talkless: it's not minetest_game, I just though where we all be spawned when we connect to the same server. Krock: just saying. there might be mods that handle spawning separate to the Minetest builtin code Talkless: Oh I see.. Krock: well, not precisely "when you connect", but when you connect the first time, or you die Talkless: I guess just gonna try. It would be nice to start at the same position for all three of us. Talkless: yes, I'm about first time Krock: there's also /teleport if you're worried Krock: /grantme all Krock: /teleport dude myself Talkless: cool, thanks for the tip Krock Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Talkless: It's limited to go outside only for two, so I though we could fool around in minetest together? :)) Talkless: Yep, pretty satisfied. Krock: talk less, play more. adfeno: Hi all, how do I test player privileges locally? adfeno: I am joining using localhost:3000 but want to be normal player but server still finds me as admin and I cannot revoke my own privileges adfeno: I'm testing with minimal subgame sfan5: change your name oil_boi_: How would one go about setting the rotation of an attached object to face towards a player? oil_boi_: Ah man, the set_attach code is very difficult to work with, with variables as there's no way that I can understand to set the pitch and yaw intertwined in a 90* angle :( nephele: face toward a player, uhm, i guess find a player, make a direction vector towards their face, and convert that to pitch yaw and roll oil_boi_: nephele: the only real problem I'm having is I can't find a way to calculate the roll based on the 2 coordinates. Here is a better video explaining the situation: https://youtu.be/_GxEBYfmKj8 nephele_: I actually had the same problem... let me see if i actually solved it back then :g nephele_: oil_boi_, this is the code i had back when, https://git.gryphno.de/SyrupThinker/minetest-mod-sparktech/commit/463136bb8983ed95f8a35d0b52fdf750160937cd nephele_: I think it wasn't working properly not sure :g, but maybe it is of help nephele: Your pig looks very nice though :) swift110: sup swift110: anyone playing on android tablet nephele: oil_boi_, the way it rotates though i think roll would be dependant on the pitch in your case nephele: Hey, am a bit lost why a model i made in blender has a hole in it in one side in minetest, while it has no holes in blender oil_boi_: nephele: You need to invert the faces CTRL N then CTRL SHIFT N oil_boi_: while in edit mode oil_boi_: also nephele, I will study your code, and thank you very much, I'm thinking of inverting the yaw to create a roll nephele: ah, I thought a bit more about my code, because i set the player camera i don't know if i ever set the roll actually, since the camera can't tile :) nephele: tilt* nephele: as for inverting faces, what do you mean by that? ^N offers to make a new file oil_boi_: CTRL N needs to be done with all nodes highlighted in edit mode nephele: Yes, that just offers to make a new file :/ nephele: i have the version 2.82 i think nephele: but i will search for inverting faces in that version, thanks oil_boi_: nephele: Oops yeah, I'm on 2.70 because that's the only version that exports .x with animation, the b3d exporer is broken nephele: It looks like it may be alt-n :) nephele: but i have found the option and that works indeed :D nephele: Now i can litter rocks in my world, a bit tired of the "make a wood pickaxe" option, it makes so little sense to me oil_boi_: nephele: Here's a problem, the roll is normal when the yaw is at a 0 state, but as it turns the roll turns with it, yet the pitch stays the same direction, disallowing the movement of side up and down oil_boi_: I think I'm just gonna have to make the head entity follow the body around nephele: I think you could try probing for newer roll values at runtime nephele: like, set them with a command or so nephele: so you can figure out which values look correct nephele: then compare them to your pitch and yaw, to see if you can spot a pattern of relation oil_boi_: nephele: Even set_rotation with use directly from vector.direction is completely broken :O :O :O :O oil_boi_: GOTTA..USE...BRAME nephele: oil_boi_, well, i don't think it operates on the same scale really nephele: like, i can express any direction i want with only yaw and pitch nephele: but i need roll if i want to show how rotated you are :D oil_boi_: nephele: I just realized: I could set the pitch animation hardcoded into the model :D oil_boi_: nephele: It worked :D oil_boi_: Can a moderator delete https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=24478&p=370222 ektor: hi ektor: where are the server's logs, to see what's players do ? cheapie: There, the 4 gas stations I've built in MT now fetch price information from the internet, so I no longer have to run around to all of the stations to update the prices when I decide to change them :P cheapie: The same Luacontroller that runs the pumps also drives the signage too now, so that gets updated automatically as well. ektor: I mean I try to find the 'debug' file... oil_boi_: ektor: usually stored in the directory you run the game from oil_boi_: You might have to enable it in the minetest.conf file ektor: oh ok, thanks oil_boi_ :) cheapie: Now if only these gas pumps could, you know, actually pump gas and such. oil_boi_: No problemo oil_boi_: cheapie: Try using pipeworks? I have no idea if that supports gasoline if that's a mod cheapie: oil_boi_: Pipeworks does water only, and the server this is on doesn't have any sort of gasoline mod. cheapie: ...or cars, for that matter. oil_boi_: cheapie: is there even a car mod? cheapie: There are several, yes. cheapie: That server doesn't have any (for various reasons) so despite having the largest road network of any server I know of, it has no cars on those roads :P cheapie: Generally it's just kind of assumed that if you're standing/walking in the road then you're a "car", so the roads there are mostly sized for that. oil_boi_: Hey cheapie: Check this out :D https://youtu.be/EzbybW7pPD8 oil_boi_: minetest.raycast(pos1, pos2, objects, liquids) This is extremely useful, thanks whoever put that in :D oil_boi_: If raycasting can go through nodeboxes then you can have entities look at you through nodes and find you! Is there a function to find sounds in a radius? Elouin: is there a way to disable registration on a server? and let something else generate the auth.txt? sfan5: there should be several mods that implement a whitelist-like functionality sfan5: you can then keep the whitelist empty and manually insert entries into auth.txt Elouin: okay, thanks. I would like to create something like a web form for registration. Elouin: thats why i ask. is there something like this? sfan5: existing solution? probably not texmex: Elouin: I think Minepass still has source code online https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15161 Fobgum: Ho Fobgum: hi Elouin: texmex: thanks for the suggestion. this looks pretty nice. :) appguru: How can I instruct MinetestBot to leave Wuzzy a message? appguru: !tell Wuzzy you might want to consider putting devtest on ContentDB MinetestBot: appguru: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around sfan5: exaclty like that appguru: Yeah, read the sources to find that out :P sfan5: !help MinetestBot: https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md sfan5: could've read the page appguru: Indeed nephele: How can i specify for a biome where it should spawn in regards to hill height, or specify the relative hill height nephele: e.g to get a mostly flat biome adfeno: Hi, is there a command to search for a particular node in the map? adfeno: Or a command to search for an entity? appguru: There are mods providing such commands. appguru: The latter makes me think of sorcerykid's advanced_rangefinder; and for the first one, there is minetest.find_node in the API (which can be used with WE) adfeno: WE == World Edit? adfeno: But how to use minetest.find_node with WE? (I only know how to build stuff with WE. adfeno: I ask because I'm looking for a specific biome to find an entity adfeno: Hm, I just found a short hand answer to save me some work. adfeno: Thanks for the help :D Elouin: the player database backend stores where the players are and whats in their inventories etc , right? Krock: yes Krock: !next MinetestBot: Another satisfied customer. Next! Elouin: thx. xD Elouin: "A fatal error occurred: Database backend postgresql not supported." Why is that? do i need to compile the server myself to get postgres support ? sfan5: if the place you installed it from did not include postgres support, yes Elouin: why isnt that default? sfan5: which features to include is up to the distributions (or wherever you got it) sfan5: but where did you actually install MT from? Elouin: freebsd pkg repository Elouin: seems like its disabled by default. will built it from ports. :) appguru: Wondering; does the API provide a way to access player meta even if the player isn't online. appguru: * ? appguru: It doesn't seems so... appguru: * seem nephele: How are inventory icons supposed to look for transparent nodes? I have two rather transparent nodes, but their inventory icons are completely invisible (apart from two pixel on one of em) nephele: in the 5.2-dev branch escondida: Hey, y'all, is $HOME/.minetest/mods still the correct location to install mods? I've attempted to unpack both the dreambuilder modpack and the standalone mod not-so-simple-mobs there e.g., ~/.minetest/mods/dreambuilder/, ~/.minetest/mods/nssm/ escondida: but they don't show up in the minetest interface as options escondida: I then tried downloading mods directly through the minetest interface, but I'm not sure where the heck it put them! escondida: (naturally, I'm running it as an unprivileged user, and my user does have full read/write permissions to the minetest dir, the mod dir, and the individual mods' subdirs) sfan5: if minetest --version shows RUN_IN_PLACE=1 then yes it definitely is the right place sfan5: if you run it from the terminal you might also get a hint where it actually put the stuff escondida: sfan5: It doesn't show RUN_IN_PLACE=1 sfan5: sorry meant RUN_IN_PLACE=0 escondida: I've installed a proper package of it, so I'm not running it out of its source directory or anything escondida: It also doesn't show that (-: sfan5: ..then what does it show? swift110: hey all escondida: sfan5: https://paste.xinu.at/mbU3/plain . Also, interestingly, the stderr output of minetest claims that it downloaded the mod to ~/.minetest/mods, but...didn't oil_boi_: hi swift110 sfan5: well RUN_IN_PLACE=0 is there sfan5: perhaps ~/.minetest is not writable for some reason swift110: how r u oil_boi_ swift110: I am going to try to get into playing minetest again oil_boi_: I am pretty good, look as escondida's issue and trying to figure out which disto he's on and if he compiled the game himself and which flag he used for -DRUN_IN_PLACE oil_boi_: Very nice swift110, throw yourself into all the mods swift110: oh thats cool swift110: I have minetest installed onto an amazon fire tablet hd10 escondida: She, on Arch, the official package from the repos escondida: sfan5: It definitely is writable nephele: apart from im nephele: inventory_image, what methods are there to get my nodes visible? they work perfectly fine placed in world but are inivisble in the inventory and when dropped nephele: I suppose i could overide the dropped icon too, but that still doesn't give me anything visible in the hand sfan5: escondida: if you run "minetest --verbose", what does it show as "Detected user path: "? escondida: sfan5: Ah. I figured it out. escondida: sfan5: I wasn't quite straight with you when I said that it was in $HOME/.minetest/mods; I wrapped minetest in a li'l script to make it think $HOME was in $XDG_DATA_HOME/minetest so I wouldn't have to clutter my homedir. Saving and loading worlds works fine, but apparently whatever piece of code actually searches for mods must be getting its value for $HOME from /etc/passwd or something rather than from the environment. escondida: I guess I'll just rewrite the wrapper to symlink it into my homedir while minetest is running. escondida: Thanks anyway escondida: (It's very strange that it would be picking up the value of where to look for things in a different way than the rest of the program, though; you'd think that would be set at the start and either global or passed around as needed) sfan5: I can only say that it should work: sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/porting.cpp#L361 escondida: ...and now they *do* show up in the mods list escondida: I'm...confused escondida: (even when I'm trying the same thing as before nephele: must be the english :) oil_boi_: escondida: what comes up in the terminal when you just type cd escondida: o,0 also, they deign to use XDG_CACHE_HOME, but won't use XDG_DATA_HOME? WTH? oil_boi_: swift110: how did you get that running by the wya oil_boi_: way* sfan5: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ escondida: oil_boi_: I haven't permanently changed $HOME. It's a wrapper script around minetest. oil_boi_: OH yeah I tried that once, it's easier to just compile the game using the engine github readme on arch, renaming the folder to minetest, putting it onto your desktop, and pinning the key directories to your file manager side panel then you can easily know what's going on where it's going on oil_boi_: make sure you use -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 so the folder "minetest" is the directory the game runs from otherwise your files can be strewn all over the place, which is super annoying nephele: oil_boi_, your gamemode looks neat by the way, motivates me to do more in mine too :) oil_boi_: One time I just compiled it, ran the game, with -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0 and the game was using my desktop, then I installed it and it was duplicating files to my desktop and my ~/.minetest and I was like oh no oil_boi_: nephele: thank you! I like physical interactivity because it immerses you in the game, which makes it more fun escondida: oil_boi_: No, I would prefer to ue normal system directories for things. I made a wrapper script because minetest rudely drops a "hidden" directory into my homedir escondida: thanks, though. nephele: the XDG spec is hard to follow :/ escondida: nephele: Not really oil_boi_: Yeah I'm not sure why it does that, I never used the brain power to see if there was a way to change the directory of .minetest to anything else. I just looked through the minetest.conf example and I can't find it escondida: nephele: Since minetest's configuration is pretty much all intended to be set through the UI (though you can still edit config files), it just belongs in ${XDG_DATA_HOME:-$HOME/.local/share} nephele: escondida, yes it is, for one parsing sucks, and XDG defines severall vars for the same thing, like XDG_DATA_HOME is still okay, but then there is a second one where you need to parse for precedence through the path, threating all encountered dirs as your data dir nephele: that just plain sucks honestly nephele: You are wrong there already, proving my point, local config belongs in default ~/.config/ not ~/.local/share ;) nephele: and those are just the if no dir is set paths escondida: nephele: XDG_DATA_DIRS, you mean? That's nothing to do with user data: that's system data. oil_boi_: nephele: escondida: YOU'RE BOTH WRONG! They belong on the desktop, all the files on the computer, root should be /Desktop nephele: some app hardcode .config and .local/share too also escondida: nephele: *Human-editable* config files belong in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME escondida: nephele: Yes, they do, which is just bad manners. nephele: "bad manners", no, it's just a hard to follow API nephele: Ideally you would simply ask the OS for a file handle or a dir to be your config, and you are done nephele: having to parse and validate env variables is just plain horrible oil_boi_: nephele: Hmm, but that's not what the archwiki says🤔 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_Base_Directory escondida: oil_boi_: I don't even have a Desktop directory. oil_boi_: Hahaha, escondida, if you have xorg installed you can run the game from the tty and the frame rate goes through the roof nephele: oil_boi_, what does it not say? oil_boi_: nephele: I dunno, I'm just taking a brain break and messing around nephele: If my gamemode gets playable you can break that :D nephele: Still at defining a hatchet and shit though... really wierd to have much of the late game finished but very little of the early game oil_boi_: nephele: https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/blob/master/mods/main/tools.lua Here you can j ust take my strange code to do that linearly instead of defining everything one by one which gets annoying nephele: I can't take your code, you have gpl :P, what do you mean with linearly? nephele: I need to model some flachs so i can use that to create a rope, and i need to model a stray stick (or use it from leaves) and then use those + a rock to craft the hatchet oil_boi_: when it steps up the level {"wood","stone","iron","gold","diamond"} it decreases the time to mine and increases the durability with a set value nephele: Who would want tools made from wood, gold, or diamond? :p oil_boi_: You want them when it takes 15 seconds to mine by hand instead :D nephele: Nah, those are just crappy tools ;), And you can't mine trees and stuff by hand for me :D escondida: nephele: You found a plot hole (-: oil_boi_: It's all artificial mining difficulty, even in the default game, so you might as well make it satisfying! Even the worst tool nephele: Luckily, i don't need to clone mtg :D nephele: I already have an electrical drill and industrial furnace, but i am missing something to get you up to that point :D nephele: so that's what i am going to use the hatchet for anyhow nephele: Well, not really a hatchet but still nephele: something you can chop at wood and at rocks a bit oil_boi_: Why not have stones on the ground you can punch to pickup, then make grass drop rope, and have leaves drop sticks then be able to craft a "primitive hatchet" from there? nephele: Lol nephele: I was already doing that oil_boi_: Oooooh, oops nephele: but i don't have grass, I want to use flachs because that makes good rope i think :) nephele: So i first need to model that nephele: the stones on the ground are already finished though nephele: well, barring the texture hehe, but i can always make that later escondida: Oh, cool, are you doing a bunch of primitive crops, or just flax? nephele: For now i need a way to get actuall production going, I haven't thought that much about how I am going to go about farming yet nephele: at the start flax anyhow, might very well add more later nephele: Maybe i should just use those X crop things for now an only make a flax texture instead of a full model heh escondida: That does sound like a good way of getting up and running first. Then you can polish later nephele: For now i think, thought i honestly don't know if flax that i modelled in blender would look any good :D nephele: escondida, thing is too, i have a lot of the technology stuff for the more late game, because i first had a mod for that stuff, but eventually got tired of supporting mtg nephele: really hard to make crafting recipes ontop the like uhm 3? ores mtg has nephele: without going "mese is magicall and can do anything" escondida: hehe oil_boi_: You know what is REALLY irritating about mtg, 99 stack limit nephele: That's actually not a mtg thing nephele: oil_boi_, do you like serverrules btw? oil_boi_: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L6650 I say it is :D nephele: The 99 default limit is defined in builtin oil_boi_: nephele: I have no idea what serverrules is tbh oil_boi_: nephele: Is it? Where? :D nephele: like, servers asking you to agree to rules and shit :D nephele: oil_boi_, lemme dig up my pr thing nephele: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/8873 nephele: That shows you where it is defined oil_boi_: nephele: That is neither here nor there, I don't go on servers to grief, or mostly at all, but when I do I just click okay. NOW when the rules tell you to search for a specific keyword then I just log into another server, cause that's super annoying nephele: Haha nephele: I made a parody addon of server rules nephele: personally i don't care really, i never needed a justification based on page 12 paragraph 3 section 2 before to kick dicks from a server :D oil_boi_: nephele: Ooo I like the idea of that. You should make it like 3 pages long and detect how quickly a player is turning the pages after the first click of "next page" and then set a time minimum before the next page is turned, and if they're clicking the button too fast then don't show the "I agree" button until they've waited hahaha nephele: Oh, the one i made just picks a ruleset at random and shows you that :D nephele: if you want to play around with it : https://git.gryphno.de/neplevitan/minetest-mod-rules oil_boi_: Nephele: What if mobs had hunger and they needed to eat to keep living? :L oil_boi_: Holy moly everyone is wreckin Wuzzy for not supporting the latest git :O nephele: That could be neat, but it makes sense mostly only if mobs are persistent and reproduce on their own oil_boi_: Quick nephele! More ideas :D nephele: some animals could eat grass blocks or so, deer or other big animals could eat apples swift110: oil_boi_, I hope too how long you been playing minetest nephele: if an animal is healthy it could try to find other animals of the same species to reproduce nephele: at some point the problem becomes though that chunks need to be loaded for that to be effective, and you would need something to reduce overpopulation, basically a biological cycle :P oil_boi_: swift110: Since 2010 nephele: Maybe make a more smaller map that is limited and force that to be simulated on the server swift110: I would love a subgame in minetest thats like simant swift110: wow oil_boi_ thats cool nephele: what is simant? swift110: nephele, a really old game for the pc nephele: oil_boi_, by the way, i am already plotting to have a low chance for existing trees to shoot out new sapplings nephele: in a somewhat random direction, to make forests grow back slowl swift110: nephele, to simulate real life? nephele: the forests? no more because i am lazy :D nephele: replanting stuff is so tedious, the forest grew that much without players around, but with a player around they suddenly need help to replant themselves xD swift110: oh Extex: Are there any expert modelers? swift110: hmm * Extex: is a poor excuse for a 3D modeler Extex: lol oil_boi_: Why does a player float downwards when they jump onto a node? oil_boi_: self.object:get_attach() seems to be broken testman: I see that Minetest installers in Lutris library are horribly outdated. https://lutris.net/games/minetest/ testman: Is anyone here willing to look into updating that? Krock: who owns that entry? Krock: it's not mentioned in https://dev.minetest.net/Releasing_Minetest#After_releasing testman: As far as I am aware, Lutris library entries can not be owned so far. Anyone can make a change request and Lutris developers review and apply it. testman: As for who withing Minetest community would be the one to take this as a responsibility, I do not know. testman: But Lutris should probably be added to post-release process, since it is a very widely used platform in terms of Linux gaming Calinou: to my knowledge, none of the Minetest developers use it Calinou: (I don't either) nephele: honestly i don't know a single person who uses lutris nephele: i've always had bad experiences with any game-managers on linux skibur: I have a private Minetest server up and running. I have 3 clients connected. 2 can craft items, but 1 can't. What is going on here? skibur: Minetest Server 5.1.1, Clients 5.1.1 skibur: Any ideas? skibur: Hello skibur: Which mapgen is between v6 and flat? skibur: sorry v7 and flat? solrac: Offtopic; is it possible to compile irrlicht without GLX? solrac: Or well, is there a GLX that doesn't depend on X11? :v nephele: I highly doubt that, glx is, after all ment for opengl on X11 :) solrac: Well, I'm trying to compil irrlicht for AArch64 (Switch) and DKP does not provide it. So Maybe I'm missing something or doing it thr wrong way nephele: not sure what DKP is but i see no reason why X11+opengl would not run on aarch64 barring driver support nephele: if you want to use opengl you are going to need some way to get an opengl context anyhow :) solrac: Hmmm... someone suggested to use it with SDL instead, I'm not exactly sure how that might help for context since, well it still uses OpenGL :v and that still needs context nephele: Yeah sure, but sdl2 might have better platform support than irrlicht itself on some platforms nephele: so in that case it may be usefull nephele: I have a question, are decorations supposed to be available in minetest.register_on_generated ? I have one registered via minetest.register_decoration that i inteded to use to spawn trees, but they don't seem to show up in the code i am using nephele: (using latest git, if that is relevant, although had the same behaviour last time i tried before 5.1.0 or so) solrac: Is there a minimal Irrlicht version? sakana_: hello folks sakana_: i have a newbie question, hope you forgive me... so, i've modified my player skin but it doesn't show in the server i'm playing, i get the default skin instead. i can see other people using skins. what am i doing wrong? oil_boi_: sakana_: You have to request the server admin to put your skin in if they have the skins mod enabled oil_boi_: Otherwise everyone has the same skin sakana_: oh, many thanks to you! oil_boi_: No problemo oil_boi_: And the award for the most hackjob abuse of the api goes to https://0bin.net/paste/KvcOPMsHbP+WL27R#SehjW6ylAS-o7nFO70XUWry4s8sNNCDL/GRrPdyiaY+ Extex: Uhhh? Lol oil_boi_: Extex: That's what happens when you prototype garbage Shortened to return(minetest.facedir_to_dir(minetest.dir_to_facedir(vector.direction(pos,pos2)))) oil_boi_: I dunno how to do math ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Extex: Lol where did you find that? oil_boi_: I literally wrote that out before I figured out I can just use the false 4 directional facedir to get a binary value, I was laughing for like 5 minutes straight Extex: I love looking back on my own ancient code... lol sometimes I don't even understand it solrac: Thats always fun Extex: Sometimes it's brilliant sometimes it absolutely awfull Extex: Lol oil_boi_: Oh god, I like to stay away from that. Usually when you do that you find a teetering mountain of variables all linearly coded and the slightest mishap...oof Extex: Yeah trying to fix them can be disastrous solrac: I've another question regarding Irrlicht... how the heck does one set the platform? I get the platform not recognized error. I can't find a defined setting in the source or in the Makefile oil_boi_: The blender documentation is frustratingly out of date. I'm not sure why they even removed .x exporting oil_boi_: Thank goodness they have an archive of the old versions of blender spook79: hi, my client is doing some weird things when rendering entity textures (like players but also happens with mobs and minecarts), the textures seem stretched and wrongly mapped: https://files.catbox.moe/oudby6.png anyone know's what's up (using opengl video_driver)? sfan5: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comments/fpv5x9/mobs_and_player_graphics_broken/ is this your post? spook79: sfan5: not my post, but seems to be the same issue sfan5: operating system, graphics card? did you notice this issue after upgrading minetest? spook79: also on void linux, intel integrated graphics, it's been a long time since i've played, just started playing again. sfan5: minetest version? spook79: minetest --version spook79: Minetest 5.1.1 (Linux)Using Irrlicht 1.8.4BUILD_TYPE=ReleaseRUN_IN_PLACE=0USE_GETTEXT=0USE_SOUND=1USE_CURL=1USE_FREETYPE=1USE_LUAJIT=1STATIC_SHAREDIR="/usr/share/minetest" sfan5: hm sfan5: suspiciously sounds like void linux somehow broke the graphics driver (mesa, in this case) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Travis: Correct Linux dependencies so that PostgreSQL is found by CMake 13c6d6358 https://git.io/JvQYg (152020-03-28T12:04:15Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix crash on wielditem/item entities 130496149 https://git.io/JvQYa (152020-03-28T11:56:48Z) spook79: sfan5: just built the game manually, everything seems to work now :o, maybe an issue with the void package? sfan5: did you build 5.2.0-dev? if so, the bug somehow unintentionally might've been fixed in the meantime spook79: oh yeah, it's 5.2.0-dev now, seems to have fixed the issue sfan5: mind testing if the issue is present if you compile 5.1.1 from source? spook79: i'm on to it! spook79: nope, issue is back, 5.2.0 seems to have unintentionally fixed the issue sfan5: interesting, thanks for testing nephele: I had asked this tonight: are decorations supposed to be available in minetest.register_on_generated ? I have one registered via minetest.register_decoration that i inteded to use to spawn trees, but they don't seem to show up in the code i am using (using this to try and build a forest; using recent git of minetest if that is relevant but same behaviour since the last time i tried this (like half a year or so)) sfan5: did you call minetest.set_gen_notify nephele: No, i don't think so? nephele: The description is really confusing me, i am not using any notifications i am just scanning the generated mapchunks and don't find any decorations nephele: you mean there is a different way to get that info with this? nephele: can't find anything in that doc section about what those notifications are or how one could retrieve them (also have no idea what a flag field is supposed to be) sfan5: as I understand it, you need to call set_gen_notify to get the position of placed decorations as an argument to register_on_generated nephele: that function just takes a function as argument, you mean like call it before that? nephele: I can try calling it before the register_on_generated call, can you tell me what a flag field is though? nephele: Just an array or something? nephele: oh it's in the section "Flag specifier format"... that's easy to search for .-. sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/88114a74e90dc7ac3a81f47ba93916e1dc925324/mods/fireflies/init.lua#L268 nephele: Thank you MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Improve --help output 132ae790c https://git.io/JvQsg (152020-03-28T13:02:27Z) ircSparky: if anyone wants to play some Trouble in Terrorist town with minetest and mumble let me know MinetestBot: 02[git] 04v-rob -> 03minetest/minetest: Formspec: Mark `hypertext` and markup language as unstable 139953145 https://git.io/JvQE7 (152020-03-28T20:54:19Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04ClobberXD -> 03minetest/minetest: Ignore near_plane setting on non-Android platforms (#8749) 1313b2285 https://git.io/JvQE5 (152020-03-28T20:53:55Z) nephele: for `minetest.add_entity(pos, name, [staticdata]) where is the definition of the staticdata? I had assumed it was a ObjectRef but the function wants a string nephele: Do i have to create luaobjects beforehand maybe to use here? nephele: Ah, i found it now, via register_entiry nephele: entity* sfan5: staticdata is a string that is stored when the object gets inactive and is saved to disk sfan5: its use is entirely up to the code that implements the entity nephele: so, i can leave it empty? sfan5: almost all entities should support being spawned with empty staticdata to start "from scratch" nephele: Ah, so, it's like it's initialization value? sfan5: it can be used that way, yes nephele: Okay, another question, how can i enable physics for entites? nephele: seems the physics overide is only for players, i assume my entites should be falling but they just stay in the air anyhow sfan5: physical = true property and set the acceleration appropriately for gravity nephele: Ah, i already had physical set, Thanks, you have been very helpfull (again) :) Ruslan1: I still can’t login to minetest forums Ruslan1: Can anyone fix my account in minetest forums Extex: How do I get the text from a text list based on an index? Extex: So I've got the textlist Extex: And I need to get the number selected (comes out as "CHG:#") Extex: And I need to get the text contained at that index Extex: Of the textlist luk3yx: Extex: You'll have to store the text server-side. Extex: Ya I am.. But how would I get the index when the output is "CHG:#"? oil_boi_: So if you set_attach to the player you can no longer see the object? solrac: Hello. I wanted to know if there were more technical requirements (RAM, GPU 'generation', etc) I ask cause I am contemplating a rather ambitious port that I'm almost certain it might be impossible sfan5: solrac: you need a c++11 compiler for your target platform; your target platform needs to be supported by sqlite3; [Irrlicht-related requirements] it needs to have either OpenGL or GL ES (officially supported) or DirectX 8 or 9 (not explicitly supported, but works); Irrlicht needs to know how to create a window and/or rendering context plus how to do keyboard/mouse input sfan5: the RAM requirement is roughly the same everywhere, the processor does not matter it just can't be too slow or nothing will work out in the end sfan5: to be more precise on GL/GLES: I think the minimum OpenGL requirement is somewhere around 2.x (2.0?). With OpenGL ES either 1.0 or 2.0 are supported by Irrlicht and work with MT. solrac: Thaks for the replies! I was contemplating the original Xbox, I noticed a bare MTG runs with 68~mb of ram, and sadly the OGXB has 64, so I was thinking maybe reduce few things here and there. But while thinking, I'd figured I might go for Switch instead. solrac: That being said, I believe there is no Controller support just yet, correct? sfan5: I have seen some code for joysticks here and there but I don't know how well it works solrac: Also I Apologize for my late replies and ignorance, I just got back ^^" sfan5: no need to apologize sfan5: oh and one more thing: Minetest relies that there is a working filesystem exposed by the C and C++ standard library, it'd not be impossible to replace this with a custom implementation to use system-specific way, but that'd be potentially a lot of work solrac: Could it look for a subfolder of wherever it might be running? sfan5: "working" here means that it can read its assets from the fs and freely create and write files to save user data solrac: Understandably so. sfan5: sure you can make it use any path you desire Elouin: Hi, in minetest only the server needs the mods/subgame installed not the clients, right? sfan5: correct Elouin: 👍 solrac: Hello again. Can this game be compiled with static linking instead of dynamic linking? I'm not exactly too familiar with how CMake does things tho sfan5: sure sfan5: add -DCMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS="-static" to your cmake invocation solrac: is there a way to do it in a config by chance? sfan5: what are you referring to by "config"? solrac: or I imagine the CMakeList.txt sfan5: you can also put set(CMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS "${CMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS} -static") there, yes solrac: thanks! solrac: For some reason my tool ain't reading it (same no -rdynamic error) but I believe it's apart sfan5: made sure to delete the cmake cache before running it again? solrac: Had to add a toolchain and clean. thank you tho ^^" Installing missing packages atm Andrey01: I noted there are pretty lots of players on servers lately Andrey01: regularly totally about 720-750 players online sfan5: people have too much time on their hands due to corona solrac: Server has be de-canceled due to Corona Virus Andrey01: I thought about it, too Andrey01: Wow, now already 840 online MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fix bug introduced in 9096f70 1384c4fc4 https://git.io/JvH6y (152020-03-27T11:45:31Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Sort out include path mess in CMakeLists 13a160dc0 https://git.io/JvH6S (152020-03-27T10:19:25Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Properly support -DENABLE_REDIS=TRUE even if library is not found 1304b9dff https://git.io/JvHiC (152020-03-27T15:27:55Z) sfan5: !tell JDCodeIt ping MinetestBot: sfan5: I'll pass that on when JDCodeIt is around MinetestBot: JDCodeIt: Mar-27 16:35 UTC ping JDCodeIt: sfan5: ping right back at ya sfan5: coincidence? JDCodeIt: You believe in those? sfan5: it happens, sometimes sfan5: the slow performance you had with minetestmapper was with an sqlite3 world right? JDCodeIt: Yes sfan5: I have implemented some optimizations so it uses a range query whenever possible sfan5: if you have some time, I'd appreciate some testing https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper/tree/next JDCodeIt: At least on "Z" or all axes? sfan5: Z-only JDCodeIt: I'll download and run against that large file... sfan5: range queries for the other axes are not possible due to the pos hashing as far as I understand it sfan5: I did implement range queries for all axes in the postgres backend though JDCodeIt: I read the section - any chance the map storage would change in future? sfan5: in terms of the serialization or the storage on disk? sfan5: for the latter any future changes will come in the form of a new backend that server owners can migrate to JDCodeIt: I meant getting rid of the hash concept and going to three part key, for example sfan5: someone proposed that once IIRC and it wasn't done at the time, might actually happen in the future if the coredevs consider the change justified JDCodeIt: OK, it's running now on a test picture 400x400 -2 to +50 in Y. The first message says : Failed to parse color entry 'coloredwood:slope_wood_medium_redviolet_s50_outer_cut_half_raised 102 37 70' sfan5: !c len("coloredwood:slope_wood_medium_redviolet_s50_outer_cut_half_raised") MinetestBot: 65 sfan5: I guess I could allow node names up to 128 in length JDCodeIt: or CString? JDCodeIt: I ran the old code last night for 9 of these pictures - took about 10 hours JDCodeIt: Just wondering why not compute the block hashes that include the 3D node ranges and only feed this sub-set to the rendering routine sfan5: that's only faster if you reach a certain percentage of lookups you make and blocks that actually exist sfan5: and doesn't work particularily well if you want to render the entire map JDCodeIt: Seems like a query optimization step may be needed to approach the problem efficiently JDCodeIt: 40 minutes and still running to make the picture sfan5: I still plan to implement your suggestion, but I'm wondering what a good heuristic would be so it doesn't try to exhaustively search e.g. an entire map JDCodeIt: Maybe break the problem into manageable chunks when it's a big one. Smaller areas like I'm trying might just fit into a single chunk JDCodeIt: The mapper just finished at 45 minutes - better than 90! sfan5: great! sfan5: can you run a 'SELECT COUNT(*) FROM blocks;' on your map file? JDCodeIt: ...and it has colors and everything! sfan5: !c 400 % 16 MinetestBot: 0 sfan5: !c (400/16) * (400/16) * (52/16 + 1) MinetestBot: 2656.25 sfan5: !c (400//16) * (400//16) * (52//16 + 1) MinetestBot: 2500 JDCodeIt: Sorry I didn't have the CLI installed, took a minute, and opening from the browser is a bit of a non-starter JDCodeIt: it's taking its sweet time counting the records sfan5: hm I would have expected counting to be O(1) JDCodeIt: Guess it's a ton of i/o sfan5: sqlite does have an index of the database contents though... sfan5: ...are you sure it's taking more than 15 minutes to count the blocks? JDCodeIt: over 1.0 load on the system, yes it's doing something JDCodeIt: How cool is that? JDCodeIt: CPU load bouncing between 1.1 and 2.7 (2 core machine) sfan5: o.O JDCodeIt: Just returned the value - 9764215 DS-minetest: you can do ".eqp full" before doing the sql query to see the query plan JDCodeIt: error not a boolean value "full" sfan5: !c "%.1f%%" % (2500 / 9764215 * 100) MinetestBot: '0.0%' sfan5: eh sfan5: !c "%.20f%%" % (2500 / 9764215 * 100) MinetestBot: '0.02560369676415359674%' DS-minetest: JDCodeIt: then try "on" or "true" instead of "full" DS-minetest: (but it probably won't show interesting information anyway) JDCodeIt: I get 0|0|0SCAN TABLE blocks USING COVERING INDEX sqlite_autoindex_blocks_1 DS-minetest: yeah, I get the same DS-minetest: btw. JDCodeIt what's your sqlite version? JDCodeIt: version 3.11.0 DS-minetest: (oh, and feel free to ignore me, I'm not helpful anyway) sfan5: guess I can't run count(*) to determine if blocks should be exhaustively searched JDCodeIt: interesting if I include a keyed field this thing flies: select count(*) from blocks where pos between -1000000000 and 100000000 - less than a second JDCodeIt: I missed a couple zeros there but you get the idea DS-minetest: and what's the result then? JDCodeIt: the query plan is SEARCH TABLE blocks USING COVERING INDEX ... JDCodeIt: same number 9764215 DS-minetest: ah sfan5: huh DS-minetest: weird JDCodeIt: TABLE SCAN is usually never a good idea. DS-minetest: have you tried running select count(*) from blocks; again? maybe it's faster now JDCodeIt: You're right - it's cached now DS-minetest: or maybe sqlite added an index JDCodeIt: it can? seems odd to not control such things DS-minetest: https://www.sqlite.org/optoverview.html#autoindex JDCodeIt: They say "single statement" but is it actually the duration of the connection session? JDCodeIt: i think the plan is referring to the Internal index created because pos is unique JDCodeIt: Could it take 15 min to read the index the first time? DS-minetest: if I do .indexes blocks, I also get sqlite_autoindex_blocks_1 JDCodeIt: I quit sqlite3 and went in again. The query is still fast with and without the where clause. Must be buffered in RAM? adfeno: Hi all, when using xdecor mod, how do I break xdecor:cobweb ? sfan5: tried using a sword? adfeno: Im using a silver sword, but nothing happens JDCodeIt: groups = {snappy = 3, liquid = 3, flammable = 3}, adfeno: sfan5, JDCodeIt: Oh, so silver is weaker than bronze adfeno: Swords at least DS-minetest: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreores/blob/e3d8f88e9cbfe2582056ec6987cff005e3e5c379/init.lua#L276 JDCodeIt: Depends on how the sword_silver is implemented in moreores DS-minetest: !title MinetestBot: DS-minetest: moreores/init.lua at e3d8f88e9cbfe2582056ec6987cff005e3e5c379 · minetest-mods/moreores · GitHub DS-minetest: there's a time for snappy 3 adfeno: Hm, perhaps the moreores mod version being used is older than that commit JDCodeIt: sfan5: I guess I need to reboot that box to see if the slow query is a first time read thingy sfan5: you can also drop caches without rebooting DS-minetest: did you know that farming in mtg is easier at world boarders? DS-minetest: soil won't dry out JDCodeIt: did a boot anyway - yes it's slow again even with the SEARCH TABLE plan JDCodeIt: The file system is ETX4, so should not suffer from fragmentation so much - maybe this is just thrashing the disk JDCodeIt: e4defrag says it is 162 fragments which doesn JDCodeIt: t seem awful JDCodeIt: sfan5: you mean sync; echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches ? sfan5: yea oil_boi_: texmex: Alright, I'm gonna try it, here we go oil_boi_: texmex: I'm also working on a new mob creation tool which will make the head seperate from the body so the mob can look around DS-minetest: ^ I did that once with a tank DS-minetest: question: do we still need to use things like MutexedQueue in c++11? sfan5: what would you propose instead? DS-minetest: using std::dequeue directly (at https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container there's that c++11 thread safety block) DS-minetest: (but I'm a bit confused. does "can be called concurrently" mean that you are safe if you try calling it from multiple threads or that there are concurrency-problems because it doesn't lock?) DS-minetest: ah, forget it, I understand now sfan5: JDCodeIt: here's another thing to test https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper/tree/next sfan5: if you use it with the narrow limits from before it'll try to grab the 2500 blocks it needs directly without ever making a single range query sfan5: ...which should be much quicker than the previous run of 45 minutes JDCodeIt: Ok will give it a go - but traversing the file entirely with the count(*) takes 17 minutes alone. sfan5: don't worry it doesn't do so JDCodeIt: 16 seconds first time, less than a second on a re-run JDCodeIt: Incredible JDCodeIt: What was the main structural change? JDCodeIt: Would this also avoid the problem where table locking starts to occur and really make minetestserver angry? sfan5: does a read query lock the database? sfan5: the main structural change is this -> Just wondering why not compute the block hashes that include the 3D node ranges and only feed this sub-set to the rendering routine JDCodeIt: Right I see that in the change log - now I'm checking how it scales with a 8000x8000 image sfan5: the only remaining problem is to come up with a heuristic to devide when to do this and when to do the usual thing JDCodeIt: If this takes about 26 minutes, it's linear sfan5: should be sfan5: a better question is: would rendering that 8000x8000 image the usual way been faster? sfan5: still using --min-y -2 and --max-y 50 ? JDCodeIt: Yes, same Y range. You mean the "next" version just before this one? sfan5: yes sfan5: !c (8000//16) * (8000//16) * (52//16 + 1) MinetestBot: 1000000 JDCodeIt: Non-linear - took 16 minutes JDCodeIt: 24 MB image file JDCodeIt: You can see where players went on a walkabout JDCodeIt: Do you expect 90 minutes or more for such a large area using the old code? DS-minetest: does anyone here know how to use doxygen in minetest? JDCodeIt: I'm going to run the whole map just for grins sfan5: likely hours sfan5: and now that you mention it, I don't think you need to test that; it will be terribly slow either way JDCodeIt: !c (62000//16) * (62000//16) * (52//16 + 1) MinetestBot: 60062500 JDCodeIt: If a lot of the blocks are not generated, think it could speed through those sections? sfan5: how would it know without doing a range query? JDCodeIt: Not to know in advance, but I'm wondering how long this will run now with the current code - maybe overnight... sfan5: hm, there's still some potential, it could run just one range query instead of a bunch JDCodeIt: Anyway one cannot do something that large - exceeds INT_MAX DS-minetest: ah, I have to do make doc DS-minetest: apparently the description the introducing commit is the best source of information here XP JDCodeIt: 16000x16000 image generation is running just over a gig of RAM JDCodeIt: The 16 minute job had lots of space that was not explored yet, so maybe this is why it performed better than linear oil_boi_: Ah man, I don't think there's any doc for this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4472 sfan5: which documentation are you missing? JDCodeIt: documentation for the documentation? oil_boi_: sfan5: Ohhh, that submenu doesn't reference https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2819 that's weird JDCodeIt: Interesting - 19 minutes for the 16000x16000 image JDCodeIt: Vast majority of the map is unexplored sfan5: !c (16000//16) * (16000//16) * (52//16 + 1) MinetestBot: 4000000 sfan5: interesting sfan5: looks like I really need a good heuristic for this JDCodeIt: Well I like this code for my purposes - it hasn't been tested for other types of worlds e.g. skyblock JDCodeIt: It was fun going through that with you. I hope others will reap the benefits as well. sfan5: sure, thanks for taking the time to test my changes oil_boi_: texmex: I added in the cheat function JDCodeIt: sfan5: does a read query lock the database - yes something rather bad starts to happen if you try to read a world for a long time while the server is using the same file JDCodeIt: All the tests I did above were on an offline backup JDCodeIt: If minetest follows the sqlite protocol to obtain a SHARED lock until ready to write, then getting a RESERVED lock when writing, it all should work out sfan5: what happens if the mapper is still inside a SELECT query while minetestserver wants to write? sfan5: I don't see a way to avoid locking in that situation JDCodeIt: It has a journaling system, so this is what the doc says: Only one process at a time can hold a RESERVED lock. But other processes can continue to read the database while the RESERVED lock is held. DS-minetest: so, they always read the old version? * DS-minetest: wonders how many locks there are, just one for the entire db or one per table or some hierarchic thing or something else... JDCodeIt: READ processes are reading the disk image. Pages not written to the disk are in the journal. When all the reading processes are done, the journal in memory can be written to disk sfan5: ah so that still blocks *something* but not the writing, it only blocks the journal merging sfan5: unless this means that COMMIT will block, that would cause problems JDCodeIt: An explicit COMMIT will wait for the SHARED locks to be all gone - seems it could block the process trying to commit DS-minetest: so, if something holds a shared lock for a long time, minetest will always read the old version of the map sfan5: sounds like it might be better for minetestmapper to use sqlite's backup functionality to take a snapshop of the db and let minetest continue working on it JDCodeIt: I think minetest is going to have to commit the change before reading back the block later, right? JDCodeIt: To be kind to the database, one should release the SHARED lock as soon as practical and often JDCodeIt: When the data base file needs to be written to the lock goes to PENDING - which delays new SHARED locks until the write is done JDCodeIt: So, instead of holding the lock during the whole activity, one should release it often and only gain it back when something new must be read JDCodeIt: docs - A PENDING lock means that the process holding the lock wants to write to the database as soon as possible and is just waiting on all current SHARED locks to clear so that it can get an EXCLUSIVE lock. No new SHARED locks are permitted against the database if a PENDING lock is active, though existing SHARED locks are allowed to continue. JDCodeIt: I think perhaps only the writer is trying to do this internally, not user code MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Implement --exhaustive y mode as another database access optimization 13cb8341a https://git.io/JvHAP (152020-03-27T23:14:47Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Optimize database access further by allowing "brute-force" queries in… 137ff2288 https://git.io/JvHAX (152020-03-27T22:38:18Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Rewrite DB class to allow backends to fully optimize block fetches 135b264fd https://git.io/JvHA1 (152020-03-27T19:30:13Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Rewrite config file parser 13ecc2b31 https://git.io/JvHAM (152020-03-27T18:33:42Z) sfan5: 13 hours and I haven't done anything except programming Extex: Wow sfan you're on a roke sfan5: yes, but I'm done now Extex: role* nephele: Heh, and here i am starting modding on minetest for the day :D MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fix minY/maxY calculation (closes #66) 1348bf44c https://git.io/JvHxz (152020-03-27T23:40:38Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fix another bug in the Redis backend 13539bdbd https://git.io/JvHxb (152020-03-27T23:56:11Z) oil_boi_: Very quiet oil_boi_: I'm surprised no one remade buildcraft in minetest nephele: what's buildcraft? the thing with quarries? oil_boi_: nephele https://ftb.gamepedia.com/BuildCraft nephele: oil_boi_, well, some of that exists in minetest, even if not in identical form oil_boi_: nephele well the pipe part was easy https://i.imgur.com/60Eb3gR.png Kazida: how to use craft guide mod ? JDCodeIt: Been absent for a while... what are all the 2.0.0-dev servers showing up on servers.minetest.net? sfan5: some modified engine variant that supports both 0.4 and 5.0 clients, apparently JDCodeIt: Does it have a name, and has anyone seen the code repository? Quiark: what people will do to avoid upgrading :o darkwar: can someone help me with a code darkwar: what does this do to a code durability_index MinetestBot: 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Connection: Fix deadlock in debug mode (#9550) 13a099875 https://git.io/Jv9r6 (152020-03-26T18:13:50Z) MinetestBot: 02[git] 04pyrollo -> 03minetest/minetest: Hypertext: Fix alignment tags adding unwanted newlines (#9548) 1349a5585 https://git.io/Jv9K4 (152020-03-26T18:56:35Z) oil_boi_: Does anyone know how to: have a node like cobble stone, and find out what node drops cobblestone? sfan5: "have" a node "like" cobblestone? oil_boi_: sfan5: "default:cobblestone" -> what drops cobblestone? -> return(what drops cobblestone) sfan5: !api MinetestBot: Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt sfan5: the function is called minetest.get_node_drops texmex: oil_boi_: You loop get_node_drops on all registered nodes? oil_boi_: oh wow, well I suppose that would work but that seems to be brute force method sfan5: why all registered nodes? oil_boi_: something like minetest.get_dropper_node("default:cobblestone") sfan5: oh you want the inverse sfan5: then you have no alternative other than checking every registered node Elouin: Hi, i just created a server and when i try to join it prompts me to register but when i hit register and join nothing happens. Elouin: its server 5.1 and mineclone2 as game sfan5: did you make sure to enter the same password in the field that shows up? Elouin: what do you mean? Elouin: theres only one filed for entering a password sfan5: if you enter a password in the menu before joining, you are supposed to enter the same password in the prompt that shows up Elouin: I didnt any in the menu Elouin: *Enter sfan5: hm, might be a bug then Krock: there was a bug where it didn't show the password mismatch error Krock: if you enter a wrong password, does it appear? Krock: related #8568 ShadowBot: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8568 -- [5.0.1] Click on "register and connect" do nothing on Linux and Android MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve documentation of minetest.get_node_drops() 133c0d309 https://git.io/Jv96x (152020-03-26T19:35:05Z) Elouin: When i enter a password in menu and then the same in the register prompt it works Krock: yes, that's the idea Elouin: when empty on menu and a new one on register it doesnt work Krock: hence "confirmation" Elouin: Okay. Elouin: Wierd unintuitive behaviour imho. Elouin: why not set the password on register when empty in main menu? Krock: because you might want to join a server without a password? Krock: i.e. trash guest account sfan5: I think the idea was that you type the password twice sfan5: but I agree that this is not intuitive Krock: it's indeed to improve safety for mistyped passwords (lockouts) Elouin: Okay. Elouin: Is there a CLI command for world generation? sfan5: no but a mod should be able to do it oil_boi_: sfan5 this is the best I could do https://0bin.net/paste/new86SJgPMSxZCvP#dU6HpduvbjhMrhwIydnKE2hhiG9HEyK6f3wppVoP8-E Elouin: sfan5 OK, thx. But I can upload one generated with the desktop client, right? sfan5: sure, worlds are generally portable Krock: it'll need the right mods installed at the destination (PC/phone/taster....) Krock: *toaster JDCodeIt: I was thinking about improving the minetestmapper program... the way it accesses the map seems really inefficient - any map experts here? JDCodeIt: It seems to select all hashed positions, decode them, then decide if they are in the area of interest. JDCodeIt: Naturally, on a large map file... this takes a while Krock: well, it needs to start at some Y value and then step through the mapblocks underneath until terrain has been found JDCodeIt: Given a Y level is there a way to select the blocks that are in a range of x/z using SQL? Krock: no, because it's u64 encoded JDCodeIt: that's what I thought - how does the engine find relevant blocks to send near the player? Krock: ((z * 2048) + y * 2048) + x or so Krock: see util/numeric.* for conversion functions sfan5: the engine will decide an exact position and check if it's in the database sfan5: are you sure the loadBlocks() operation is a bottleneck for minetestmapper? Krock: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/b298b0339c79db7f5b3873e73ff9ea0130f05a8a/src/database/database.cpp#L59-L69 Krock: ^sorry, not numeric.* for this function. I thought it was there sfan5: it already makes use of a range query to only get blocks on a specified z coordinate (possible despite the encoding) https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper/blob/master/db-sqlite3.cpp#L62 JDCodeIt: ..one of them - but really dies in the renderMap JDCodeIt: I have a 13GB map file - been running about an hour, I can see it is drawing one row of pixels about every 10 minutes JDCodeIt: Doesn't seem too smart an algorithm Krock: in this case it would also make sense to split the map into chunks and offering a web interface to browse through them sfan5: how do you "see" that it's drawing one row each 10 minutes? sfan5: also do you have an idea for a fast approach? Krock: fast approach would be drawing per mapblock Krock: less lookups JDCodeIt: Is it easy to find the adjacent blocks in x/z? Krock: complexity of looking up a mapblock at any location is the same as adjacent blocks JDCodeIt: the hashed positions are a corner of the block (16x16x16)? Krock: the node position (0,0,0) inside each mapblock, yes. sfan5: the mapblock positions need to be multiplied by 16 to get node positions, if that is your question JDCodeIt: maybe I need to read about how the blocks are organized - is that in the api text file? JDCodeIt: how i "see" this is I put some std::cout statements in there to draw dots on the terminal sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/world_format.txt JDCodeIt: Thanks sfan5, still applies to 5.0+? sfan5: yes rubenwardy: master is latest dev JDCodeIt: Finding adjacent blocks looks pretty easy - just compute the next over hash value and do a SELECT in the db, right --> int64(p[2]*16777216 + p[1]*4096 + p[0]) sfan5: sure sfan5: but is it faster than fetching all blocks on a given Z coordinate ahead of time? JDCodeIt: When that list is long, maybe so. 90 minutes to generate a 400x400 pixel image on the 13GB map JDCodeIt: Probably the slowness comes from the fact that players have gone to -31000 on this map - lots of blocks in the y dim, but these are not interesting for the mapper range sfan5: hm sfan5: there are two open questions with a "just grab the correct neigbouring block" approach: sfan5: * how do you determine the highest Y coordinate to start from? sfan5: * how do you handle gaps where mapblocks are missing? JDCodeIt: The range of Y (in nodes) is provided, so just one expensive search for the "y" of the relevant blocks JDCodeIt: From there we find the range of blocks covering the requested x/z in nodes. The walk the blocks by direct query of the db JDCodeIt: Missing blocks get the generic background color, so probably no big problem. That's how it looks today for areas not yet explored. sfan5: that sounds like it wouldn't work well if you have disconnected floating islands sfan5: what I was thinking of is this: you want to render a single 16x16 area in the image, you find the highest mapblock in that y column, then walk downwards sfan5: this is about what the mapper already does, just in a different way JDCodeIt: Maybe I should look at the minimap code - this is pretty darn snappy at generating a top level view sfan5: the client only considers the limited view of the world it has, so no patches at 31000 or -31000 JDCodeIt: Yes, the command line calls for the geometry of interest, so i was thinking it would be possible to apply those limits sfan5: are you running it with --max-y 6000 --min-y -6000 or comparable parameters? JDCodeIt: Oh, no I just have -2 to +200 - the world doesn't have much in the air sfan5: that shouldn't be terribly slow then JDCodeIt: It didn't used to be so slow - until the map file grew so large - much exploring to the deep JDCodeIt: Some players also found the x/z edges so the range in x is also large sfan5: have you limited the --geometry? JDCodeIt: I'm asking for a geometry near the origin and only 400x400 --geometry 201:-601+400+400 sfan5: hm JDCodeIt: loadBlocks takes several minutes to execute SELECT pos FROM blocks JDCodeIt: To me that bit of code looks to select all pos hashes from the entire 13 GB file sfan5: that's what it does, yes sfan5: I guess for this exact case it could also use the --geometry parameter to limit the positions it fetches JDCodeIt: Yep, that's the way I saw it. So we determine the range of blocks in the 3D geometry then only have to traverse these sfan5: this optimization is only applicable to Z positions though JDCodeIt: I'll mess with it on the weekend - COVID lockdown has freed my time! oil_boi_: JDCodeIt: Yes I have a lot of free time too cause of that oil_boi_: I wonder if there's a way to go past 30927 oil_boi_: sfan5: do you know where the value is defined on whether the x,y,z coordinates are 32 or 64 bit? sfan5: oil_boi_: it's implicitly hardcoded in the code because v3s16 (which is 16-bit) is used everywhere MinetestBot: 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: C++11 code modernization 139096f70 https://git.io/Jv99a (152020-03-26T22:14:47Z) oil_boi_: sfan5: Ahh okay Extex: Ok so I've got a server hosted on my ip. Via host server and announce server. oil_boi_: What I don't get is, on Linux using the built in kernel drivers for amd cards makes it so the game will not change from 60FPS no matter what I do, even lower the settings fps Extex: Is there any way for like a website or something to generate a link that links to my ip so I can give it instead of leaking my ip? oil_boi_: Extex: You can do something awful and use hamachi Extex: Without use of vpn Extex: Like... Something that represents my ip cheapie: Extex: You're basically saying the same thing as "I want some people to call me but I don't want them to know my phone number" at this point. cheapie: Now, if you just want something that represents your IP address so that it's easier to remember, then that's what domain names are for, just don't go thinking that they hide anything or that there's really any reason to do so anyway. Extex: Sry back now Extex: If anybody answered plz repeat cheapie: [18:04:16]